VETOED: Michigan Governor Rejects Bill That Would Allow Conceal-Carry In Schools, Churches and Sports Stadiums

by | Dec 20, 2012 | Headline News | 255 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    On December 14, the very day twenty children and seven adults were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, the Michigan State legislature enacted a bill that would have allowed the concealed carrying of firearms in traditionally gun-free zones:

    The Michigan Legislature has enacted a bill allowing people who undergo extra training to carry concealed weapons in places such as schools, churches, day care centers and sports stadiums where they previously were off-limits.

    Another provision would eliminate county concealed weapons licensing boards, with sheriffs taking over their duties.

    Under the bill, people who concealed carry in gun-free zones would have to get enhanced training beyond basic requirements and spend additional time at the gun range.

    Source: Click On Detroit

    That bill, which is by far one of the most sensible legislative actions this year, made its way to the desk of Michigan Governor Rick Snyder.

    Ironically, after citing the Sandy Hook school shooting, the Republican governor promptly vetoed the legislation.

    “While we must vigilantly protect the rights of law-abiding firearm owners, we also must ensure the right of designated public entities to exercise their best discretion in manners of safety and security,” he said. “These public venues need clear legal authority to ban firearms on their premises if they see fit do so.”

    Safety and security?

    Had a teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School, a student at Virgina Tech, a movie goer in Aurora, Colorado, or a pilot on one of the four planes downed on September 11th been armed, scores of lives could have been saved.

    The Michigan legislature took an important first step towards introducing Constitution-friendly legislation that puts the power of self defense and personal preservation back into the hands of law abiding American citizens.

    However, instead of embracing legislation that could prevent, or at the very least minimize, mass-murder incidents in the future, Michigan’s governor, and a host of other political figures and foreign governments that would disarm the citizenry, are taking exactly the opposite approach.

    Amid all of the emotionally driven rhetoric surrounding the perceived dangers of owning firearms,  few have considered a realistic approach to stopping violent criminals and psychopaths who have no regard for the law or human life. With nearly one gun in America for every person, the task of executing a ban would be daunting, not to mention dangerous for law enforcement officials given that what we’re talking about here is disarming Americans, arguably the most heavily armed citizenry in the history of the world.

    Gun bans, as we’ve seen in Australia and the UK, do not work, despite what the communist Chinese suggest we do (speaking of China, has anyone considered that maybe there’s a reason the Chinese want the American people disarmed?)

    Does anyone realistically think that a gun ban will remove every one of the nearly 300 million guns in America? Or that mass murders will somehow be prevented once law abiding citizens no longer have access to ‘assault rifles’ ? Do those supporting executive action to supplant the Second Amendment by banning assault rifles actually believe this is the solution? Are we to believe that once guns are banned, that the other 750 million weapons throughout the world won’t make their way to America’s shores via the black market?

    We need to be realistic here and understand that guns are not going away, and neither are criminals and those with mental health issues.

    Legislation allowing concealed carry in public venues, especially schools, sports stadiums and other high-priority terrorist targets at least gives us a fighting chance.

    The alternative is sheep being led to slaughter, just as we saw last Friday.

    This article was originally published with the title Michigan Enacts New Law Allowing Guns in Schools, Day Care Centers, Sports Stadiums, Churches and Other ‘Gun-Free Zones’. It has been updated to reflect that this legislation has now been vetoed.


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      1. Wish more competent people would carry.

        • Agreed, but you can’t always get what you want.

          I’m just happy to see some states and municipalities finally showing some common sense.

          • wtf?

            Guess this would explain why the story was pulled, then came back…

            Forget what I posted up above :/

          • Could they not be enticing more violence? This may sound down right sick, but I believe the bastards in Washington are praising the devilish acts at Newtown and any sensible solution such as this, no one has any balls left to sign a sensible solution into law. It gave Washington more leverage to disarm us, something they’ll truly regret when America is invaded. I pray that those children slaughtered in CT, and all the children killed as “collateral damage” via our drone strikes, haunt the living hell out of those bastards.

            • No, your thoughts don’t sound down right sick at all.

              Behind closed doors I am fairly confident that there are no tears falling from their faces…

              Every crisis is opportunity… and when there is no crisis, they will create one and make the sheep think there is.

              • Yup. Saw on the news that one of the great minds of our times, Joe Biden, is chairing a gun control commission that will come up with proposed legislation NEXT MONTH. This from a crew that can’t pass a budget in 3 1/2 years. In the video footage, Biden was sitting next to an unidentified Idi Amin looking police chief who has to be from one of the “diverse” urban areas riddled with gang violence. In order to get an outcome that quickly there has to already be a template of what legislation the administration wants. Biden wouldn’t have been given this assignment without also giving him the Cliff Notes. Almost like they already knew what they wanted to do and they’ve just been waiting for the opportunity.

                Went to my local gunshop yesterday around 1:00. Packed. Background checks backed up and staff running. Lots of buyers looked like first timers. My reason for guessing that is that the staff was having to explain the basic operation of handguns to them. 30-40 AR’s had been collecting dust on the racks for the past couple of years. One was on the racks yesterday. My point is, the anti-gun sentiment being fed to us by the media doesn’t seem to be shared by my neighbors here in the real world.

                Gun possession, bad. Black rifle possession, really bad. Freedom, bad. Government oppression, really good. Disagree and you are siding with baby killers.

            • The weak minded koolaid drinking sheep will give over there firearms freely.
              Yes, China would love a gun free America. I have to say, not going to happen.

              I’m curious, has anyone heard of U.N. troops being seen training in the Appalachian Mountains?

              B Aware, B Awake, B Alive

            • PuffyPete,

              There’s nothing sick about your statement. The government may not have directly pulled the trigger in the mass shooting, but I certainly wouldn’t put it past them to have withheld vital information that could have prevented the massacre if it served their political purpose, not after Fast and Furious.

              It is clear to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that the stage is set for something very bad to occur within the economy in the next 3-8 years. The government will be forced to enact extreme & draconian economic measures (i.e. France) that will send many people who are on the edge, over it.

              It is a nightmare scenario for the government if those soon to be disenfranchised people were armed. The government simply doesn’t have the manpower or material to deal with that many armed angry people, and they know it.

              Needless to say, the last AWB is still fresh in the minds of most gun owners, and I predict the overwhelmingly vast majority will not be participating in Diane Feinstein’s orgy fest with the rest of her traitorous liberal ilk. Gun owners today know which the side the bread is buttered on, so to speak. I know I won’t have any part of it.

              Merry Christmas all!

              • YH,

                I agree. I personally believe that the government is behind a lot. America has almost always been the “victim” before committing to global changing events: Pearl Harbor, 9/11. America is painting itself as the victim with these shootings. America, I should say Washington, is good at manipulating the situations into it looking like theyre simply responding to an attack. They are trying to eliminate assault rifles so when a civil war breaks out, the rebels won’t have adequate firepower against their enemies.

          • This veto “looks good”, but doesn’t help solve the problem.

            It fits right in with my pet peave; Anti-gouge laws. The laws thet prohibit raising prices to their market driven place, therefore ensuring needed supplies go to where they are needed the most.

            Politicians enact these laws, and then gloat how they are helping the folks. Meanwhile, the folks can’t get the supplies they need in the quantities necessary. Or worse now, theyr’e defensless sitting ducks for the bad guys.

            Looks good. Sounds good. Feels good. Phucked again. Thanks.

            • Raised prices in a free market actually help conserve a scarce resource.

              ‘course, that sucks if you’re the one who needs whatever it is that is in short supply…

              • Raised prices also serve to ” send a signal” that things are needed over here. Hey, over here. We need sh*t here, now. Bring it and you’ll get paid.

                Forget it. You won’t get paid. Just stay where you are. FEMA will handle it.

                You can’t win this debate on logic, facts or economic theory. Only feelings and name calling. (if this argument is being debated that is).

                • Not being debated, though as long as civilization holds up, the rule will still hold true: scarcity means higher prices, which in turn entices more supply.

                  Even post-collaspe, it’ll hold true to an extent. If I can get 2 50-lb sacks of rice for my box of TP in the town next door, but only 10 lbs of rice for the same box of TP here? You can bet your ass that I’m gonna weigh the pros and cons of making that trip with a bias towards ‘pro’ if I know that I can swing it w/o getting ambushed. And, I won’t be the only one… everyone else with TP is going to be thinking long and hard about moving TP to that spot.

                  FEMA? Meh… they don’t have the manpower or logistics to do much outside of a few select metropolitan areas, even if the entire US Army were to back them up.

            • Rick? Ensure folks who need it get it?..Ok so How does it work if say as an example.

              Your area is hit bad by a tornado. ALL gasoline re-suplies are stopped for two weeks.

              Only ONE station has any left. That guy owner decided to capitalize since You got all gouge laws ended.

              He Raises a gal of gas to $100.00 Per gal..

              Now regardless Who “needs” it as you state it(as if all wont need it?) ONLY very rich folks can even dream of buying it no matter how bad or not its really needed.

              You believe this ensures it goes to them what needs it most?…HOW?!

              I got zero against profits etc. But if you think zero govnt or laws to regulate any amount?…Thats a pipe dream if you really think we wont see a massive number of Pure Greedy fuck everybody else as long as I get mine types.

              History proves it and so does human traits.

              Also Your method IS what was prior when JD Rocefeller monopolized Oil and Gas…Thats reason we first got NO Monopoly allowed laws.

              How can you not see this?…Or do you assume if You would never be so greedy or uncaring etc that others won’t neither?

              Your solution is as bad as libs who desire TOO many rules or laws to regulate. Both are fully wrong headed.

              The word Balance sounds appropriate to me. And we never will get that if no gov laws or enforcements exists, but we instead base it all on some type “Honor” system or??

              • Angelo, it works like this:

                You dump the gouge laws and that one station raises his price to $100. Bad? Would seem so, however, If he’s selling it for $100, he may only have 10 gallon. (Supply and Demand theory here) But, now that he’s got it so high, I say, “Hey! I can do it for $50 a gallon and make a bunch of money!!!” So I go do it.

                What Rick failed to verbalize is that while dumping the gouge laws allow people to raise prices, they also allow people to lower them!

                …or would you rather have it like this…

                Gas dispenories everywhere lobby the government (and they do) and get government to use its MONOPOLY on violence to make it illegal to lower gas more than 10% below the prevailing price. …or they can’t even sell gas unless they belong to the GDU (Gas Dispensory Union). More regulation is ALWAYS bad because it messes with the market.

                Of course there will always be unfairness in an unregulated market at certain times and in certain places. But, to regulated it in a political environment GUARANTEES it will remain fair to a few people and very unfair to many more FOREVER or until the monopoloy of violence is broken.

                Say your example above has details that getting gas into that area COSTS $100/gal??? Maybe the guy selling is is actualy being charitable by only charging for his costs and is not making a penny of profit. Now, add government regulation that says you can only sell it for a max of $5 a gallon. Its a $95/gal loss. GUESS WHAT? NO FRACKING GAS!!! Now, I understand that $100/gal gas is expensive, however, there have been times in my life where if a guy came a long with a gallon of certain fluids, I would have handed him a $100 and shook his hand with gratitude.

                Government wants power. It doesn’t want to make anything fair, safe, more accessible, cheaper, more reliable, or less deadly. Regulation is never good in any situation. NEVER. Anti-trust and price fixing laws, now thats a different story. They keep organizations from forming that emulate government and emulate its monopolistic power thirst.

                It become unfair when station A says to station B, “Hey! I know I’m your competitor, but, if you won’t sell gas for less than $100, I won’t either.” That is where the trouble starts.

                Gouge laws are bad. Anti-Trust/Price fixing laws are good.

                What if, during hurricane Sandy, I decided to buy a bunch of 5 gallon containers, pile them on my 16ft trailer, fill them with gas and take them down into the areas that needed them. BUT! I had to pay $4.50 (I bought 100 gallon), but it took me

                Each of the 20 containers cost me $5.
                $100 of fuel to get it there.
                It took 3 days of labor to get it there. (36 hours of labor)
                I spent two nights in cheap $50 hotels on the way.
                I busted 3 $200 tires and had to replace them.

                Just for costs, even if you don’t pay me for the labor, to get gas to those people, that gas cost me $13.50. Should I work for free? Hello? I didn’t to this for charity. So, I charge another $2
                a gallon for my labor.

                So, I charge $15.50 a gallon. Am I gouging? NO! But, I’ll bet you’d bitch about it and try to get me banned with yor gouge laws because I’m “taking advantage of a disaster”.

                BULLSHIT! I’m providing a service. I should not have to bear the costs of delivery. But, you know what? If I do, you can just set in your powerless house and freeze. Maybe you could print out the gouge laws and read them by candle light and that will keep you warm.

                BUT! If it works out, and I make money, maybe I’ll get better at driving through the debris and won’t lose so many tires. Maybe I’ll take a sleeping bag next time and just stop at rest areas and not spend money on hotels. Maybe I can bulk buy containers and get them a little cheaper. …and so on and so forth. But, initially, its gonna cost at least $15.50 a gallon.

                Throw in government regulation and you get nothing.

                This is how government maintains power at the expense of the people and ESPECIALLY at the expense of people in disaster.

                Remember my paradigm? Government is the anti-Midas. They touch it and to manure it turns. Government makes regulation sound good, but, all they are doing is becoming the “middle man” and, they don’t work for free and they don’t promote fairness.

                Statists are mind controlled dreamers that seldom view reality.

                • Gouge laws serve government and mega-corps. They do not serve the people.

                  …and so to the laws on the monopoly of violence.

                  Ask the people as Sandy Hook elementary. Only two types of people at Sandy Hook elementary were “allowed” to use violence:

                  Criminals (Even if you consider this a “hit” they’re still criminals)

                  The State (police, etc)

                  Monopolies enforced by government is ALWAYS BAD. They can’t stop the criminals. They allow the Police. They don’t allow the good, honest people. Children die.

                  Happens every day in Chicago. You can’t defend yourself and your family. 62 school children have died because only police and criminals can bear arms. Really? You didn’t notice? Oh, wait, that would support an anti-guncontrol paradigm. Guess we can’t report on that.


                • Well said Net Ranger. Think you changed any minds???

                  I started to write a post, similar, that went into detail, thought “what’s the use”, and scrapped the idea.

                  I have come to believe, no, to know, understanding of certain concepts matters greatly on your “starting point”.

                  IE; Were your folks lib or conservative? are you in a union? do you work for gov? do you collect a ck? Are you a victim or independant and strong. have you ever owned a business? (big one there!). have you ever owned a gun? did you go to college and have your head warped by libby-libtard professor? are you still a kid? (anyone under 30) Do you think police are there to help you?

                  I could make this list a mile long. Anyhow, great points based on fact and logic. Fact and logic. fact and Logic. FACT and LOGIC. Here’s a tip; When it matters, base your decision on fact and logic, not feelings.

                • You know, Rick, thats really the problem. If you look at just about anything the government screws up or manipulates, they do their best to hide truth and logic and play on emotions. A

                  As we know, women tend to live their lives more based on emotion than men. There are several women at work that just think I’m the devil encarnate because I have assault rifles. No, not because I *HAVE* assault rifles but because I have assault rifles and when asked if I wouldn’t feel terrible and responsible if someone broke in, stole one and then murdered a bunch of school kids with it. They think I’m the devil because I said, “No. Why should I? The theives committed the crime, not me. My house was locked. Its not my responsibility once they steal it. But, they feel like they would feel responsible. Emotions are so illogical.

                  Truth and logic. Seems to be the first casualty when government becomes of a sufficient size.

          • What you are seeing are lies. Created and propagated by complicit media.
            In Michigan as in all states pro 2nd Amendment citizens outnumber totalitarians by at least 20:1.
            If you would believe media propaganda, you would think that there is a groundswell of anti 2nd Amendment support. Not rue.
            What you are witnessing is a concentrated effort by a TINY minority to trick us into giving away our birthright. DO NOT!
            Know this, they are a TINY minority, they are afraid of us, they despise us, they have media support.
            Stand firm, do not pay attention to them, they are like spoiled children. they need discipline.
            Unfortunately they are well organized and funded.
            Do not debate with them, it gives them a sense of legitimacy, resist going on their tv and radio shows. Have confidence because they can do nothing to us without us agreeing to it.
            Never agree with them.
            Remember, we are 20:1.

            • Larry is right. And as an good example here…The main group(tribe) who the vast majority of head honchos in MSM And fed govnt belongs to, have a total population in america of…

              Take yer pick, seen TWO recent figures..One Point Four Percent=1.4% OR…One Point Seven percent=1.7%(all Non gentiles) Add a “few” gentiles for exact ammount..Oh, and add One major Monky Kommie…

              Along with just from a Low of for mnbc 400,000 avg veiwers daily…To King of Propagandists, and super supporters of APAIC-PNAC-ADL-SPLC-JDF-ACJ- etc etc…Fox tv with at most during Bill “I will sell out fellow whites and All amerikans for another Prof.-written Book deal” O’Swindler-O’Rielly has at most 5 million nitely avg if I recall right.

              Besides even If you add together every fringe group that collectivly makes up current demacrat party faithfull…

              96% Blacks…7% Mexicans(out of 10% mex voters) Faggots-Lezbos-Dykos-Transvestities(Not certain what it is? neither are They I rekon!) and probobly just 15% whites who meet full loonybin status…

              All Total is what?…30% nationwide tops?…Minus dems whats Progun….Its a hard sell propaganda op.

              Best we can hope for is Blacks awaken, get pissed at being stupid fools used by dems and jews and zios for last 60 yrs….Then said blacks Pounce on MSM/Polititions in Their “Hoods”!

              And not a fuckin single true patriot or white folks come to their aid…Hows that workin Now Orielly?…Hannity?…Beck?…Van Sustren(tribe)?

              Them sold out msm Filthy traitors deserves no less.

              As Christ says Love and Forgive enemys…But Sell Coat to Buy sword! Hint not to butter bread with neither!

              Love+Forgive+PROSECUTE GUILTY TRAITORS!…Cell or Rope?

        • “What is the solution?
          -Seize and ban guns from Americans.
          -Increased security state.
          -New means of declaring Americans “mentally incompetent”…

          -In the ’60s and ’70s, when guns were not registered, there was only one school shooting: Kent State. The government shot 4 Vietnam War protesters, peaceful students, dead.”


          Mac, I read this article on Veterans Today’s website. Does it hold water?

          • Oh, and good luck Detroit.:(

            • I like Gordon Duff’s column. I don’t know if Mossad was behind the murders or not, but I know that our government from the CIA to the Congress has be usurped by Zionist operatives and dual citizens that have allegiance to Israel and not America. Something stinks about the whole thing and I would not be surprised if it was a false flag operation.

              • False flag? I consider it an outright ATTACK on American soil! I consider it an outright ASSAULT on American children! I consider it TREASON! The fact that our government may have engineered it, I consider cause for a violent upheaval of those involved. Even sheep are smart enough to stand together against attack, it’scalled a flock. Why ain’t sheeple as smart?

          • In the 60’s and 70’s I am pretty sure there were more than one school shootings. They may not have been massacres, but people died.

            A quick google search provided this(and it probably isn’t all of them):

            Feb. 22, 1978: After being taunted for his beliefs, a 15-year-old self-proclaimed Nazi, kills one student and wounds a second with a Luger-style pistol in Lansing, Mich.

            Dec. 30, 1974: In Olean, N.Y., Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several “battle plans” for his attack on the school.

            May 4, 1970: Four students are killed and nine wounded when National Guard soldiers attempt to control an antiwar demonstration at Ohio’s Kent State University.

            Jan. 17, 1969: Two students are shot and killed at the University of California-Los Angeles during a student meeting.

            Aug. 1, 1966: Charles Whitman climbs atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31 during a 96-minute rampage.

            • Mass killings became common when psyiatric poisons lke Prozac became common.

              There are none so blind as those who will not see.

          • We should all try to be better citizens…..

            Standing by in SC out

          • iowa Only 1 school shooting in the 60’s and 70’s you say this man says?
            well then these never happened?

            February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School in Hartford City, Indiana, before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.

            March 30, 1960 Alice, Texas Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.

            June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.

            October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.

            August 1, 1966: University of Texas Massacre Charles Whitman age 25, climbed atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, and killed 16 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage.

            I got a shit load more and this is just the 60’s.

            • Seems all of your examples of shooting in school were just one murdering another when they happened to be at school (except the tower guy).

              There is a big difference between a single murder and a mass shooting of people the shooter does not know.

              You are merely confirming Iowa’s claim in you efforts to refute it. Saved him a lot of time trying to dig that stuff up. Your like the basketball player that scores the winning basket in the wrong goal and then celebrates his skill and accomplishment.

              • We need to stop assigning values and figures to these occurrences. One life is just as equal to 20. If even one life is taken, it is an issue. We need to prevent armed gunman from getting into the school period. If we stop him from getting into the school they can’t kill anyone in it.

            • it was june 8th 1960 that lester betts walked into my father’s office and killed him. he “only meant to scare him”…he scared him by shooting him in the neck with a single shot shotgun. but he didn’t think he scared him enough so he left the office and re-loaded, then went back and finished “scaring” him…to death.

        • They all want to be politically correct now, cave in and just worry about their pensions. They say, screw the american people, we are on our own and there are more that want this stripping of our freedom to happen than don’t. I can’t wait to hear what the NRA has to say tomorrow. I hope they stand firm but who knows anymore, anything is possible when big bucks and careers are on the line. Sell outs, all of them.

          I have a right to protect myself and us parents have a right to protect their children at any and all cost. No one is going to take that right away from me.

          • The NRA is gonna cave, not all the way but wont matter, the libs are going to win this one, i dont care am trading in my ARs for new bolt guns, when we march on washington to retake the capitol im gonna use my bow and my cold steel battle tomahawk, fuck the commy traitor politician bastards they can go blow themselves

            • The bolt gun will be outlawed 15 minutes after the so called semi auto ban is in place. Then 15 minutes after that, pumps will be gone. then 15 minutes later single shot guns will be outlawed. 15 minutes later your private property will be outlawed.

        • I read articles like this and I can’t believe you are actually serious. There are a lot of countries where everyone has assault rifles. Somalia. Iraq. Pakistan. No one in there right mind would would be happy to let their children out to play in these places. You are all living in a fantasy land.

          • Cam,

            You forgot that evil bastion of deranged gun nuts, Switzerland.They all are REQUIRED by law to keep an evil (real select fire) assault rifle in every home and I don’t hear of them shooting up the local schools and markets…how can this be since we all know its access to the guns that makes the shooters do it…right?

            I would allow my children to play there, and I bet you would to. Oh sorry your in your right mind, so I take that back.

            • Yea, they are required to be armed and trained to protect the global central bankers and the BIS that is headquartered there. The heads of all the central banks (China,too) meet in Basel every year to discuss their plans on how to steal the common man’s money.

            • the swiss are a socialistic nation should we go that way too since you want to use them as an example?

            • I believe it is also the lack of forced multiculturism, here in the states, as well as europe, many cultures clash, the U.S. was the great melting pot, but now more eastern, middle eastern, and central and south american immigrants, legal or not, cling desperately to their old culture, when years ago it was much different. This is no longer the nation i grew up in. I blame the liberals, liberal movement, the government, phsychiatrist, and the mental health industry, as well as big pharma, our government is out of control. Watch out for yout neighbors, and family. We are headed to real dark days. Evil is thick in the air.

              • lack of forced genocide ?There is plenty of it!

            • Just by using the term ‘assault rifle’ you make it real clear you watch WAY to much TV.

              UNPLUG! It’s liberating!!

          • And then there’s Mexico, only the drug cartels and criminals have weapons. Citizens, no. Who’s living in fantasy land?

            • CAM..Last I heard them mid east countries you wrote of never had any concern nor worrys of kids playing in streets…UNTILL NATO headed by Isreali run/managed USA decided to Carpet Bomb em into the stone age again.

              Ever since iraq war mid east folks are “blessed” with thousands(and number riseing) of Babies born with Two heads, terribly deformed in more ways than you can count.

              Thats due to tank killer ammo aka DEPLEATED Uranium ammos…So yeah its hetic to play or even exist in any streets there now…But on a happier note!

              I seen Plenty video and still photos of various isreali locations where, after a good body count of REAL semites, Rabi pharisee and jew citizens are seen widly Dancing and partying much as Detroit Monkys after a swell gang rape and butcher job Murder of some old White granny age 89 yrs!

              Not alot of different in attitude or actions from them detroit types compared to the isreali jewish folks in telaviv eh.

              • Yea, uuh huh. Sure you’ve seen them videos and still photos. Send some links, because I believe you’r a liar at best.

                • I care not if you call me a liar…I expect as much from idiot assholes. YOU do Your Own homework..Check online for many sites with vids of 2 dozen rabbi’s dancing in streets after hundreds killed back in lebanon invasion BY jew isrealis…

                  BUT do NOT confuse Them videos with OTHERS similar which also show a few dozen rabbi’s and citizens around a bon fire in middle of street at daylite in telaviv or jerusalem..

                  Because Them videos are only about how them folks and rabbi’s once per year celebrate some jew festivle by rounding up as many copies of NEW testement bibles they can find and Torch/Burm em all, while doing wilder dancing than hopped of Rapper Monkys on the TV Soul Train show you fuckin Moron!

                  You better yank yer head from jews ass and awaken to the real deal before you get Your ass in a sling.

                  Post links or videos?…Why? You will refuse any evidence anyways likely, just as lkely You are a Liberal Troll eh.

                  What a A-1 Tool you be.

        • Hi Jonas,

          More people would be able to carry if they make an example of Michigan Governor Rick Snyder.

          He should be impeached immediately, charged and convicted for treason, and if ANYONE dies in his state while undergoing that process that could have defended themslves with a firearm,.. he should also be charged as being complicit for that murder.

          JD – US Marines – This Day 7 Of The Second American Revolution.

          PS: For those who have heard or figured out,.. those 20 children and 6 adults were killed by a CIA-Vector-Team (Lanza was just the sacrifical asset), for the sole purpose of DISARMING THE AMRICAN SLAVES.

          December 14, 2012 truly was the beginning of the 2nd American Revolution,.. only our Treasonous gov’t fired the first shots,.. and killed 20 children in doing so. – JD

          • Dahling! Where did you get that stunning tinfoil hat?

          • @ JD

            Glad to see posting here again, dude!

        • Who would determine who is competent? Every hear anyone say, “I don’t have any common sense” I believe most people that carry are competent. That’s the reason you rarely here of anyone that carries concealed, being convicted of violating a gun law.

        • Mac
          do you think he opened the door for school hire security with guns???seems like to me he opened the door its their choice,,,


          • Maybe. We’ll see where this goes, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see this turn into a new DHS initiative over the long-term. Armed law enforcement/soldiers at every school… The State always thinks they have a better solution than the private sector…

            How many parents in America would support a DHS ‘School Marshal,’ but at the same time reject enhanced training for private citizens that would then allow them to carry in schools, etc. ?

            The government’s only solution is always more government solutions…

            • DHS Security at public schools seems an opportunity for justifying the massive addition of headcount and funding to DHS. For DHS it’s feet on the ground available to fill their checkpoint booths and hammer through their millions of JHP rounds. For our inattentive and/or dull of mind brothers and sisters security in schools is an easy sell.

              Bright side of that is that if it does happen it will be a healthy increase government spending.

              As the guvment’s ship is sinking and it cannot be stopped might as well stand back and applaud a few new holes below the bow to shorten it’s death throws.

              Pass the popcorn plz.

            • thanks Mac
              for the answer,,looks like one of the last setences of article says he will leave it up to the schools,,,i think there is enough X,,retired,,military and police to get more than enough volenteers,,plus some parents with proper training,,,


            • Agree. For all the fools demanding “armed police” in every school, be careful what you wish for. This is an incredibly stupid idea.

              How long will it be before homeschooling parents are forced to undergo a “psyiatric evaluation” by Dr. Quack? How many of these parents will be found “mentally ill” and their children kidnapped by .gov?

              The U.S. government, at every level, has adopted every totalitarian tactic used by dictators all over the world and then some (but rails against these tactics when other dictators use them).

            • Mac…have you heard about the school in Texas wherteachers are armed?…

              David Thweat is superintendent of the Harrold district in NW Texas they have a “Guardian” program started on 2008 where certain unidentified staff carry concealed guns…they say some other districts have adopted the program…folks might want to look into it and help spread the word because the media wants us to believe it cant be done…because they dont want it done,,,beats the crap outta DHS or TSA types getting their own people into schools!.

      2. Wow, this is good news for sure. Yes, the other 49 states indeed do need to follow suit.

        • Short lived. Should have known better.

          • Michigan. Right to work, but not defend yourself.

      3. Congratulations, Michigan!

        What a great show of common sense amidst all this media brainwashing!

        • Daisy, my apologies for getting everyone’s hopes up. I was a day behind on this report and didn’t realize the governor vetoed this.

          The report has been updated to reflect this.

          I do hope people are paying attention.

          This is exactly the kind of legislation we need.



          • I think we can forgive you buddy. Mac, doing anthing special this Y2KII night?

            • I may just pop in 2012 to see what I should expect tomorrow! 🙂

              • After tomorrow, the Mayans may be the most hated false prophets in recorded history…or not.

                • The Mayans NEVER said the world would end. Only that there would be an awakening and the truth will be revealed (apocalypse), starting with the end of one age and the beginning of a new one when the long count calendar ended.

                  Things will now get interesting. Times will be bad for a few years, til the people win and put the bankster criminals and NWOers back in their place.

                  Guns will not be banned. Politicians who want to ban guns will.

              • If that’s your plan then you should expect bad acting and overblown special effects tomorrow 😉

                If you want to watch a good John Cusack movie then watch Better Off Dead 😉

              • I think what happens in that movie Day After is most likely closer to what could happen, the mayans are most likely rolling their eyes right now, Happy EOTW eve all!

          • that legislation was going to get passed. but that tragedy changed his mind at that last minute. at least it was a step in the right direction even tho it failed. it was just a set back i hope.

      4. Impressive action. What will the Govoner do? May more states find a backbone and move forward.

        • Our mich reps etc need use this veto as ammo to go Back and pass a NEW bill as a kinda trade off.

          A new bill to STOP pistol registrations AND Force state cops in lansing to fully Destroy every single curent file of registrations on handguns Legit owned!

          I would if we had just One to pick from rather get That passed. Not everyone goes to sport stadiums etc…But Everybody who owns Any hadgun in mich has it registered with state cop shop…Many more bennifit if this occured.

          Can always later revisit todays vetoed laws…But this is Prime ammo to give gov snyder a chance to “repent” and do a ban registrations law in exchange kinda…..

          Just an idea…But that is what irks me alot ever since its been law here…NO gov agencys need know what or how many handguns we own period.

          And history Proves…Register lists ALWAYS Preclude Confiscations!…They cant get what they no not of right.

          A Perfect timeing opertunity and if this was so easy to pass in Both reps & senate?…DO IT! NOW! Strike while iron hot eh

      5. Let’s see what the MSM says here….. they will most likely call Michigan a traitor state. Way to go Michigan.
        All we need is the clarification on the 1.6 billion bullets that “Big O” bought for DHS and for what? Do they intend to strip us from our rights to bear arms, and induce martial law and police state? Subdue us with the 2nd amendment? then they have to do it out of our cold dead hands…. Good luck.

      6. Snyder vetoed that you guys…


      7. About time

      8. Well its a shame if Michigan’s governor did veto it. If so, once again one man/woman shoots down the will of the people. Kinda gettin’ familiar ain’t it?

      9. just a little proof that you can’t depend on Republicans to defend your 2nd amendment rights

        now is not the time to become complacent

      10. I wonder if the Michigan governor has armed security to protect his own life; most of them do. If so, how could he morally justify protecting his own life with armed people, but refusing to allow school children to be protected by armed people?

        I say he is one piece of human garbage.

        • Sid Davis

          You wonder? Guaranteed the Governor has a State Trooper Security Detail 24/7.

          I got into discussion with a Brit regarding “The Royal Family” and their security verses the security for everyone else regardless of occupation. Like a compliant sheep he just shrugged apparently accepting his and apparently their lowly position as subjects.

          • Don’t forget that Kate was admitted to a hospital for morning sickness, and had a personal nurse (and surely doctors also). How many of you “commoners” can expect the same from NHS?

            • Bob

              Got to hand it to them. Their titles are accurate, Royals, Lords, Commoners. They use the alphabet we use numbers $1,000,000,000 starts the ultra real exclusive club.

        • Yeah, he does, and I’m sure they’re already flat-out protecting him from the UAW goons over the RTW law he signed.

          Sad, though. The onerous handgun restrictions in MI are one big reason I did not remain there when I retired.

          • The Old Coach

            Walter Reuther was President of the NAW for many years Mr Ford hired real goons, professionals that almost beat him to death in 1937.

            My entire wife’s family worked real hard for both GM and Chrysler and their jobs did not leave because of their high wages because the US Textile Industry fled to Asia because $8 – $12 / hr was way too much to pay when 50 cent labor was available through “Free Trade”.

      11. Governor Rick Snyder is dumber than a tree stump.

        • Don’t bet on that.

      12. Is there a petition I can sign to preserve the second amendment? I see those petitions to support the AWB and it makes me want to scream. People are so easily herded into signing their rights away.

        • Your gun is your petition. We should start a club…we’ll call it the STATE MILITIA. I call mine the Iowa Militia.

          • We don’t need no stinking petition. The petition was written, signed and paid for in blood 225 years ago. Why do we need a petition. Our rights are suppossed to be guaranteed by the Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

            There is a procedure to ammend. It ain’t easy. If that’s what they want to do, go about it the way the law says.

            If our rights are changed, using the proper procedures, that’s one thing. But if they’re changed through EO or SCOTUS, that’s another thing. One way is picking a fight.

            • No they Cannot ammend it to do away with INALIENABLE Rights…And there already Are a few US supreme ct decisions which fully state(back in 1947 & 1950-s??) that when it comes to BOR rights AND the US Const itself.

              NO Laws NOR TREATYS regardless with what or who can be entered into nor made law. If they are SO Onerous as to do away with it entirely or in ways to gut certain provisions which itself will be as if done away with.

              Certain stuf yes can be done by ammending…NOT OUR RIGHTS!

              PS I do not have the ct cases handy now..But just read about them recently(few mo ago) during hobammycare debate articles etc…Do NOT be FOOLED by any libs or others who try to convince you otherwise.

              Inalienable MEANS what it sounds as Period. Our right AND Duty is to uphold that if necessary.

        • Membership in Gun Owners of America and the Second Amendment Foundation are a mighty good start. Forget the NRA, they’re huddled in the House cloakroom weeping with Crybaby Boehner.

          • Old Coach

            The NRA has more political clout than all the rest of the pro gun groups combined multiplied by ten.

            When Larry Pratt (and he is a good guy) wants to see a Senator the guy says, “Larry who?” .

        • No, they think they are signing away YOUR rights. Wait until B.O.&co. come for things THEY hold dear, only to realize that there is no longer anything to stop him.

          Wonder how many who signed these petitions just endured hurricane Sandy and had to cower in fear as their whole neighborhoods were looted?

      13. Where the call to ban airplanes so that another 9/11 event doesn’t happen?

        • Or the call to ban french fries, high colesterol kills millions!

        • When debating with someone on this issue tell them; “This doesn’t happen in Israel”.

      14. When the dollar collapses, is it a good thing or a bad thing that a super majority of armed Americans aren’t prepared?

        It’s great that America can defend herself, but no army in history has ever won without food and water. Thats a recipe for civil war, not natural revolution. Providence alone at this point is our only hope.

      15. Drones are coming soon to protect our privacy and safety. And so is the RFID chip.

        Glad we live in the land of the free….

        • Ugly:

          “Drones are coming soon…”

          They’re here. Above me in my state.


          Fuck these COMMIE REDCOATS!

          • Iowa,

            Drones are in the USA. About 300 right now? I know in next two years there will be 3,000 as planned. And the future goal is 30,000 drones for the USA citizens.

            We dont need guns, we need scud missels….

            • Good sniper rifles and learn how to lead a target!

              • Drones are miles high traveling over a hundred miles per hour. Not even a tenured marksman with a .50 cal has a chance. They know it. Need electronic signal means of disrupting flight. Even then you’d be lucky to ever see it coming (or going). These things are beyond sneaky.

          • How to hide your infra-red signal from these f*ing drones?? As our dear leader would say ” I’m all ears”.

            • Rick,

              You cannot hide from drones or even remote sensing. I work in agriculture and do the GPS and GIS. It is amazing what you can see in forested areas even with the cheap photos of google earth.

              America is being mapped about every 3-4 weeks. How do I know? I can order a new photo of any tract of land that I want for that year, for around $1 per acre. And if I want new photos, you can get the updated photo on your iphone or android via email with the billing later.

              There is no hiding. The mountain folks that say when times are tough they will head to the mountains dont realize how easy they are to see….

              • Severe tactical disadvantage.

              • I could see my truck parked under a fully leafed tree and the solar panels I have “hidden” behind my house on Google. No, we can’t hide much.

                • Rick/Ugly & JRS

                  Hey fellas…before you concede the battle to “the Regime”, ask yourselves this question:

                  …Why is it after a decade of war, “the Regime” for all its investment ($$$) in gizmo-warfare, has been unsuccessful in defeating a bunch of rag-tag/illiterate peasants in Afghanistan?

                  …wanna bet US vets & patriots are capable of mounting an insurrection, vastly superior to what “the Regime” is currently facing over there?

                  …patriotic gun-owners come from all walks of life, we are doctors, nurses, chemical-electrical-mechanical engineers….IT/computer/software geeks, mechanics, machinists, welders, fabricators, combat veterans…and yes, some are jack-of-all-trades!!! The list is long!!!

                  My point is…the depth of the talent-pool “the Regime” would face here…is in the long run…far beyond their capabilities to suppress….let alone DEFEAT!!!

                  Stout hearts to all here…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • might find some of these links useful concerning drones and IR



              There is a misconception that UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) such as Predators can detect everything. They cannot. Their field of vision is like looking through a toilet paper roll. The UAVs are great for specific targets, such as watching a house, but imagine patrolling. It is like trying to visually swat mosquitoes using no ears, no sense of touch, and only the ability to look through a toilet paper roll. You will get some, and miss many.

      16. Off subject: tulammo 7.62-39 price in last 9 months.

        9 months ago, 500 rds. – $109

        7 months ago, 500 rds – $119

        1 month ago, 500 rds – $139

        Today 500 rds – $159

        Companies will continue to raise their prices while taking advantage of the current overreaction due to the media hype. Buy NOW!!! Don’t wait I just ordered 1000 rds from midway for 250$. Their prices will rise as well. Again buy now!!

        • My brother got me 5-30 rnd AR magazines last year this time. They were mil surp metal and ran about $9 ea. site that had them is now sold out, last price was $25 ea.

        • When a lot of dollars are chasing few goods.

        • Gunsmith
          i agree,,things seem to be shaping up,,


      17. Good lord, people, buck up. Look at what has been accomplished! When I was a whiny, puling liberal in the 90s before my “awakening”, I felt triumphant. Mostly because I *was*. We had gotten “assault weapons” banned, there was talk of a “living constitution” where certain rights could be just sort of pushed off to the side, “survivalist” was a dirty word, etc.

        Now there’s a gun for each person, you can buy whatever ammo you want at most big box stores, allowing concealed carry is the norm rather than the exception for states, and now a state’s government has gone further toward legalizing full self-protection than I ever would have believed back then could ever happen in my lifetime.

        We’re doing really, really well on the long game. And that’s the only game that really counts. In the meantime, if you live in MI make sure this tool of a governor’s staff has to work through a LOT of email complaints from constituents, particularly if you’re a registered Republican. That’s the only real coin of the realm to these fools…votes. So let them know they will be losing yours.

        Maybe it’s unwarranted, but while I feel very bad about a great many things just lately in our country, I feel really, really good about the direction the “gun fight” looks to be heading and has been heading for the last few years.

      18. Guaranteed Michigan just like Florida does not have a problem with people licensed for concealed carry. Those intent on doing harm don’t follow the law to begin with. The Governors logic cannot be explained by merely stating that it is illogical. To the contrary his decision is based upon presenting the appearance to the law abiding but ignorant masses that he is actually making them safer. In that respect he has achieved his goal.

        The Governors veto potentially just informed a future mad man where it’s safe to go berserk.

        How has modern society been able to change the core individual instinct of self preservation and made subcontracting it to others that are obviously incapable acceptable? I’m at a loss to understand how people can have so little value for their own life that they are willing to not have the means to defend it and believe that is perfectly fine.

        • How it got done?…Easy! While We were going by us const and BOR rules…THEY been going by Their Talmude/Marx manifesto/Freemasasonic rules.

          Which eneabled THEM to invent and use Psyco warfare on Us all…By ALL forms of MSM/TV/Hollywood etc…And of course Public Screwals for them kiddies brainshaping sessions all along!

          And Before you complain or lable or name call…READ for Yourself whats written in ALL books etc I mentioned.

      19. The attack is not just on higher end firearms it will be on everything. These retards think of guns as evil and the only answer is to ban on them. I am so sick and tired of this, and the media attacking people that just want to defend themselves and save their families from criminal elements. It is so incredibly stupid that these idiots want people to throw themselves in front of a shooter than be able to have a chance and shoot back. This is what gun laws are, giving the potential victim a chance of survival.

          • did not see a gun in the looters hand pointed at the person. why did not this person fight back? maybe if he may of known some other form of self defense he might be warmer 🙂 Remember if you rely on a tool to do your work only then you will look like a tool later 🙂

            • What makes you think that the looter in the picture was alone, and that ten others (armed, say, with screwdrivers or hammers) were not standing outside the photo frame?

              A firearm in the hands of the victim would have “equalized” such odds very rapidly.

              • I looked at the picture and analyzed it. Considering who was in it I could almost guarantee that the criminal was not alone. My analysis comes from years of experience living in the culturally diverse NE USA.

              • The article was about gang culture and unarmed vivtims. Highly unlikely that the thug was alone. I am 51. Are you telling me that I have to engage this guy hand-to-hand, and that if he is physically stronger than me I should be willing to give him anything he wants? What if he wants your daughter?

      20. In the 1970s, I always wanted to visit the USSR….Glad I didnt spend the monies to travel because I live in it and am starting to get the experience today !!!!

        • Comrade Ugly, I’m using my Russian more often nowadays, too. Think there’s a reason?? lol

          Whoops….I meant to type Смех вслух


        Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam (R) has said the idea will be part of his discussions about how to prevent a shooting like the one in Newtown from happening in the Volunteer State.

        As has been seen following other mass shootings, there’s a strong segment of the gun rights lobby that says the answer to events like the one in Newtown is more guns in more places. But they’ve said the recent massacre shows how important it is to put guns into elementary schools, where even gun-friendly states like Tennessee don’t currently allow them.

      22. In this article, Mac has asked the $10,000 question:

        “Speaking of China, has anyone considered that maybe there’s a reason the Chinese want the American people disarmed?”

        It is likely that the regime in DC has promised China US territory, resources and conscript (i.e. slave) LABOR as collateral for the bogus “debt” that the offshoring, fiat-money-printing plutocrat scum have accrued to the reds in Peking. Red China has also been buying up unoccupied, repossessed residential properties in “depressed” US housing markets at a prodigious rate.

        “Coincidentally,” ex-Fed chair-rat Alan Greenspan and rat-face Mayor Michael Bloomberg (who couldn’t manage a weather disaster in NYC) have declared that the only way OUT of the financial hole in which the US finds itself is to admit vast numbers of PROSPEROUS immigrants (i.e., Asians, and not Africans or Latinos) into the country. I can see Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein demonizing AmeriCANS who refuse to be slaves to China as “scum” who are dangerous and “must be disarmed,” and calling for our destruction.

        The Chinese “enterprise zones” in Long Beach, Idaho and other places are the bridgeheads from which China will expand to secure its “investment” — OUR COUNTRY.

        • Excellent assessment Ahab. Thanks for that.


          • Double dittos from me on that.

            • Ahab Yep I wrote a reply post several articles back that mentioned of them “Zones”…The Full Total(as of 6+ mo ago since I read of it) were 257 such zones nationwide!!!

              One good example is you wrote of in Idaho…Its 50 sq Miles sized!…China will have full LAWS control and entire zone be OFF limits to usa citizens if they say so!

              Kinda like an Embasy where Our laws or u.s. or State const Don’t apply!…Filled with ONLY Chineese dwellers/workers…Will they be Army in disguise?…

              PS!! Just recalled aprox 2 mo ago tops, guy came to my crib after I got letter from State of Mich resources etc adviseing me of Gas well Leases.

              After he told me he wants to by my nat gas leese for 5yrs. I called a pal 20 miles from me since he did it already and got paid well etc.

              That friend told me as he was driving a few miles from me to go do tree cutting he seen Nat Gas well driller guys at work near roadway.

              EVERY single Laboror/worker was a Chineese guy! Only who weren’t chinese was a Forman who was white…Hmmmmm….

              Aint nener yet seen a single chinees here…In fact been here 16+ yrs and seen just 2 blacks who were Bowhunters 10+ yrs ago…Hmmmm…Chineese work crews now?

              Our esteemed eliets class polititions and their handler/swindlers appear to be selling Off usa eh.

              Time to stop petitions and marches and tea party debates etc…Replace with Minimum 10 Million Ready for buis folks eh.

              Whats best options?…Good defense?…OR good Offence?…Pick One cause we got zero other options other than death or slavery…

              • Angelo, I’m sure Comrade Bill Ayers is salivating right now in anticipation of his appointment (by executive order) to run those “reeducation” camps that Barry Davis-Soetero-Obama has gotten all ready for us. And the “Obama Youth” has an endless supply of 80-IQ young brothers to guard them and keep us “safe” — after all, they’ll be armed with what used to be OUR weapons.

                Those who refuse to comply with the mulatto and his minions MAY die — those who DO comply probably WILL die. But there are even worse things than death.

        • Ah Hell, Looks like we are going to have to fight somebody. Gear up and do what you have to do. If it means putting the stuff in the ground or hauling it to your bug out location. Not much time left. Site in you weapons and stand by. Do it now so there is less to do later. NRA not going to do squat and the Republicans are going to fold.

          • Pork flied lice?

        • Glad to know Im not alone in this line of thinking…


        Greg Evenson was on this site at 6 central–I am unable to get the archive.
        It would be in everyone’s best interest to listen, when available, and send to all you care about.
        This is no joke–it’s waaaay past that now.
        If anyone gets the archived show at 6-7 central, the 20th, please share so I can send to all my contacts.

          • Which one is the one I need to listen to?

      24. Ok folks

        When did you start drinking the koolaid thinking that repubs support the 2nd amendment?
        The media darling GOP senator that won Ted Kennedy’s seat, and recently lost to the east coast version of Feinstein, just came out for federal ban on ‘assault weapons” as well.

        If this shit continues I’ll make NINA aka Coco ‘s rants look like a friggin bible school lesson..

        Or better yet..pack up all my goods and move out in his area!!..

        You’d better stop being comfortable and complacent believing that the GOP will stop gun control,,they are 100% on board for it!!!


        • Keep in mind that Brown needs protective coloration in the Peoples’ Soviet of Massholechusetts.

          (signed, refugee ex-Bostonian)

          • Congrats to you Old Coach..

            We moved here out of necessity(job) 17+ years ago and have regretted it since..

            the bastion of Wall Street/ DC Oligarchy Central Casting /and ANTI 2ND AMENDMENT enclaves..

            Everything!! is illegal in Massholechusetts..except illegals..

            Birthplace of the Revolution

            Home of Savage Arms
            Home of Smith & Wesson
            Home of H&R Arms
            Home of Springfield Rifles

            Now Birthplace of the death of the 2nd Amendment..
            Home of..
            BARNEY FRANK
            TED KENNEDY
            DEVAL PATRICK
            JOHN KERRY
            and the recent addition of Benedict Arnold….
            SCOTT BROWN

            Need I continue..?


            • @Possee vote with your feet … “GO WEST YOUNG MAN !”

              Montana is calling you Home @Possee .

              Check out the FlatHead Valley Kalispell Montana (GLACIER PARK REGION) … if you do come you want to live in the Western and Northern side of the FlatHead Lake .

              ~N.O. ;0p

              • Coco

                Please contact Miss Daisy

                She will forward my email

                love to have some info sent asap

                kudos Coco

                keep up the good fight!


        • +1000, possee!

          I just hope all the new gun owners spend some quality time with their new purchases. I have spent many hours now at our home on the range with very experienced hunters / owners. Not 100% with my PPD ~ getting there, yep, getting there.
          The last training session with the marine BIL had me running around the vast acreage ‘just to get the adrenaline pumping’ practicing with a pellet gun.
          Wee says “why, dear BIL?”
          Reply: “because I promise if you ever actually need to take out your PPD, you ain’t gonna be standing there saying “Wait, let me get ready… ok,ok, I’m ready – aim, fire. You are gonna be in a serious state of agitation – now trot, wee, trot – besides – it’s good for your heart!”

          stay safe out, dear travelers.

          • opps… guess I don’t even know my own moniker this early in the a.m. hahahaha – laughing at me impersonating me.

          • I was training at our local town operated range and it was shut down the day before the Conn massacre…go figure.

            The closest range is a 6 month wait to get in..ughh

            “Montana here I come..”


      25. Lawyers (dead fish) love gun un-rights and gay rights.

      26. I am still not sure about teachers owning guns. My experience in school must have been very different than others. Teachers in elementary were nice and peaceful that I can remember, but when 7-12 came along I had plenty of teachers that would go bat shit crazy on students. Plenty of times students were struck, screamed at in rage, and even assaulted. Two teachers were fired during the course of that 6 years because they were so violent. I do not support gun control, but I also do not think that our children should be exposed to more potential ticking time bombs. And if you believe that SSRI’s are largely responsible for such violence, do you think that teachers, often whom are under a lot of stress, won’t be taking them? From my experience through school, had some of those teachers been carrying weapons at the time of their violent outbursts, they likely would have used them.

        And also consider this…the weapons couldn’t be kept in a desk drawer, it wouldn’t be secure enough. If the gun is secured and a psychopath is shooting people, will the teacher be able to use it in time? Should all teachers carry?

        Things might have changed since, but it would still make me feel uneasy as a parent. I would rather have officers patrolling the school grounds or simply prevent the psychos from entering the school in the first place.

        • I’ve had that thought too. I remember one or two staff people in my high school that I would not have wanted armed, and that was in the early ’60s. Another problem is that schools today are run by unions, and if some staff member starts getting weird, it’s impossible to fire them. But I’m still thinking that schools that are willing to screen and train staff members to be armed should not be prevented from doing so by the almighty State.

        • Giving teachers guns is a stupid idea. Most of them are anti-gun anyway. Stop poisoning our kids.

          If something should be banned, it should by psychiatrists, or at least their ability to “prescribe” these poisons.

      27. Coco, listen….to….the….show….at….the….link…. above. What you have been saying is coming soon.

        • @JayJay ;0) Thank You … RESPECT .

          ~N.O. ;0p

      28. Iowa,

        You are so right about nothing ever happening before, until Kent State. Back in those days we used rifles for hunting, not killing people.

        I was a student at Kent State back then and watched the whole thing unfold. That is as close to murder, tear gas and mayhem as I ever want to get. Some students were throwing rocks against the National Guard armed with M1 rifles.

        Fast forward 40 plus years and I am sure that many have thought about the old odds of rock vs rifle to upgrade their odds and chances to rifle vs rifle.

        Let any in person government make a choice; that in order to hold that position and defend their home and family against intruders, they must choose between a rock or a rifle.

        Y’all Beware! I’m plum outta rocks.

        • Iowa

          In the end the students at Kent State were on the correct side of history. Not only was the Vietnam “war” illegal by Constitutional standards but our involvement at the Gulf of Tonkin was predicated on a false flag event. We the bedrock of freedom prevented an Indochina reunification election in the mid 1950s following the French defeat because “our side” would loose. We only support a democracy that we choose and control not one truly popular with the majority.

          I feel sad for the students at Kent State who bravely fought oppression rock in hand. I also feel sad for the US troops that died in essence for naively and foolishly trusting their government. One must include with sadness the over one million Vietnamese who died fighting us that were our brave allies two decades prior in WW2 and were subsequently lied to by us when we supported Frances post war return to Indochina.

        • “Nothing ever happened before?” Not hardly. Mass murders (3 or more killed in public) were more common in the ’50s than they are today. Kent State has no standing whatever in this argument. What has changed is that we now have the mass media using events like this to whip up hysteria in the service of the Dictatorship Movement.

          • TOC is exactly right. With mass media and global communication, everyone now becomes aware of even the smallest events happening around the world. In the 60’s and 70’s shootings happened just as they do today, but much less people knew about them. It was usually only reported locally, and very few events made the national news. But they still happened! If we are going to argue against gun control, we need to be properly educated in both sides of the argument. That means we need to understand that school shootings have been going on for a very long time.

        • Plenty of things happened other than Kent State. You should really research school shootings during that period.

      29. Make that “Let any person in government”

        Y’all Beware! The wine is fine.

      30. I know this isn’t really a gun forum, but most of you seem fairly knowledgeable or at least experienced with firearms.

        I recently purchased a Remington bolt action .308 and am wondering if there would be any issues using 7.62×51 ammo in it. From what I have heard, the interchangeability issues with these rounds tend to exist for automatic feeding systems involving feeding/extraction.

        Can anyone elaborate on this?

        • 7.62×51 is NATO FOR .308 you are good to go.

          Problem is with 5.56 used in a weapon chambered for .223 only. You can use .223 in one chambered for 5.56 no problem.

        • 7.56×51 vs .308

          @Timothy … the 7.62×51 Nato round shoots hotter dirtier under higher pressure than typical .308 civilian round .

          So it really depends on what you are shooting .

          A bolt action should be fine . watch inspect for stress cracks on older bolt actions .

          Most older rifles such as a M1A are designed to handle the higher pressure 7.62×51 round .

          Some of the newer AR .308’s Versions – .308’s don’t perform so well using the 7.62×51 round as its dirtier fires under higher pressure plus the 7.62×51 Nato is slightly larger by a hair diameter than factory .308 as its a heavier brass case .

          Just watch for signs of stress cracks of the gun metal excessive looseness … if you start to notice high volume feeding problems jams go see a gun smith .

          If it’s not feeling right stop shooting see a Qualified Gunsmith … if this is a new rifle for you … you may want too have a gunsmith check it for you and professionally tear it down – de-bur clean oil it – sight it in .

          ~N.O. ;0P

          • Thanks, other sources seem to have that backwards from what you are saying about the pressure:

            “The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62×51 max is 50,000 psi.”

            • maybe ;0) i’m wrong … maybe i’m not

              i’m a fan of the tougher made 7.62×51 so i’m prejudice against the thin walled .308 .

              * fire a 20 round box of each .308 vs 7.62×51 see which shoots smoother which shoots rougher with your rifle .

              ~N.O. ;0P

              • Will do. I’m looking to buy bulk and am thinking the 7.62 would be cheaper. Better get a 20 round box and see how they do first.

              • Hmm, that doesn’t make sense. I did read that the 308 has a thinner case, but if that is the case, how could it be manufactured to higher pressure specs? Now I’m totally confused.

                • It has to do with chamber tolerance, the 308 is usually a tighter tollerance, the mil surp is usually going into a sloppy chamber so the case needs to be able to expand

                • Timothy

                  Projectile dia. is identical between US civilian mfg .308 & NATO-spec 7.62×51.

                  CoCo is correct that NATO-spec cases are thicker & hence their powder charge is reduced slightly, as opposed to civilian .308……an overlooked reason for the thicker case argument involves the “rough-handling” ammo receives in a combat environment (i.e. better resistance to case dings/dents etc)…plus the fact that said cases are ofttimes loaded into a very hot, very dirty chamber…see combat environments, again.

              • I guess the case thickness isn’t as much of an issue with pressure as is the chamber tolerances?

                • Timothy

                  Correct…it is much more a function of the weapon’s “metallurgy”….(i.e. tensile & yield).

                  If you need a decent bolt-gun on a budget….buy a REM or Savage tactical w/ heavy barrel…..go deep($$$) w/ the glass.

                  Then learn to hand-load…but you better hurry!!!

            • Ive shot both in my 700 varmint, doesnt make a diff, i even shoot sorta hot home loads with 175gr SMKs and it is fine, the newer bolt guns are pretty beefy, a buddy of mine has an older one that the chamber is tighter, just by .000 but it shows stress on the cartridge seats and primers so it depends on the rifle, but if its 6-8 years old or newer you should be ok

            • Tim,

              CocoPuff is spot on. The civilian .308 rifles do not perform as well shooting the NATO round because the NATO round is a hair bigger and has more kick. Over time this can damage a gun barrel that is not designed for continious use with the bigger and higher energy NATO round.

              The flip side to this is any rifle designed to shot a NATO round should easily be able to handle .308’s with no long term issue’s.

              • This is not what I am reading. What several sources on line are saying is the opposite, that the .308 generates more pressure than the 7.62×51.

              • From Yahoo answers, for what it’s worth:

                .308 Win vs. 7.62×51–The Straight Scoop
                Before we go much further, lets address the oft-posed question “Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62×51 NATO one and the same?” The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62×51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win “Go Gauge” is 1.630″ vs. 1.635″ for the 7.62×51. The .308’s “No-Go” dimension is 1.634″ vs. 1.6405″ for a 7.62×51 “No Go” gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62×51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: “[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn’t to the .308 ‘headspace’ dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule.” You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62×51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max….. Reloaders should also note that military ammo often is made with a thicker web. Consequently the case capacity of 7.62×51 brass is usually less than that of commercial .308 brass. You may need to reduce recommended .308 Winchester loads by as much as 2 full grains, if you reload with military 7.62×51 brass, such as Lake City or IMI.

          • (Sigh) Your knowledge of firearms is just as whacked as the rest of you Nona.

            • @ da’ ole’ cooch TROLL … ;0P i’m right on this one … pound for pound cost per round quality and consistency of power per round … i’m right and i stick with my original statements .

              i even bet my own life on it .


              ~N.O. ;0p

            • Speaking of Knowledge Coach…Hows Yours regarding any readings of talmudic verses etc a few of us post here before You go off and lable/call them antisemites or racists?

              Or do you simply Ignore it all and reamin stuck like so many libs does?

              I find it ironic that while you label us here as antisemetics for posting various verses and Quotes spoken BY and About various, many Famous, jewsih folks or rabbi’s.

              I never as YET seen You call out Them as the same antis?

              Is it just inborn Predjudices you harbor? …Very strange eh…

        • After doing some more research it looks like the issue actually goes the other way. The pressure levels of the .308 are apparently too much for rifles chambered for the 7.62 x 51. So it looks I should be good to use the 7.62 x 51 in the .308 rifle. Unless anyone knows otherwise?

          • Tim,

            No. You have it backwards. Promise.See my post above.

        • Forgot to add this, beware foreign ammo, some of the spanish ammo will get stuck, also try to go with stuff that is reloadable, Lots of foreign ammo is berdan primed= cannot decap and will damage dies!

          • True. Stick to American milsurp if you’re buying milsurp. Lake City is best. WCC and FC milsurp is safe but the brass is not as consistent. Been there, seen that. I myself will not even bother to reload Federal (FC) brass, milsurp or civilian. Remington has problems in other areas, but their centerfire ammo is OK.

      31. Just be on your toe’s in Jan. Feb.

        This is a good time for the BASTARD’S, to pull the plug( inter-net, cell phone, tv, gas, electric, etc.) Most people will be to busy trying to stay warm to resist.

        I feel it has started.

        Just be careful in what you do.

      32. The mall shooting in Oregon last Monday, where the shooter also had multiple weapons including an AR15 and multiple magazines, was thwarted by a citizen with a CHL. You don’t see much mention of this by the MSM. Proof of a left-leaning biased agenda anyone?

      33. No problem using 7.62 – 51 in a .308 winchester chambered rifle.

        The Military ammo is “generally” is not as accurate being it’s tolerances for consistency is not as high because it mainly feeds full auto weapons. One MOA might not be possible regardless how good your rifle is.

        • Thanks.

        • It’s actually a pretty sweet rifle, 20 inch bull barrel with flash suppressor. At first I wanted the Panther DPMS .308 but decided since it was going to be my hunting rifle I should stick with a bolt action. Plus it was more in my price range. 😉

          • @Timothy … check out the VORTEX line of SCOPES

            worth the lil’ bit more money .


            • They can make you custom turrets for your optics too, pretty sweet for long range

            • You’re a shill for the Chinese as well?

              Buy American or German, Timothy.

              • @da’ ole’ cooch … is middleton wisconsin home to vortex scopes now under Chinese occupation ??? ;0P

                … and frankly even if they’re made in china i could care less any more … all i care for is quality performance at this point … what ever gives me the better edge is what i buy .

                AmeriKa is gone … the moniker “made in ameriKa” is now a joke to foreigners around the world . AmeriKa is a joke around the world … the only ones who don’t get the joke is AmeriKans .

                The writing is on the globalist bankers mens executive bathroom wall … ameriKa is a dead country walking on nothing but trillions of debt and empty air promises and threats .

                ~N.O. ;0P

              • Old Coach, got some sad news for you. Leupold and alot of other optic manufacturers use Japanese glass. It is the best.

      34. Mac, I tried to send a post a few minutes ago and got the “word press error-you’re posting comments too quickly” page. i wasn’t even typing that fast. Any thoughts? braveheart

        • i get it too from time to time… often for no reason whatsoever… currently I have no fix for this, as it seems to be a WordPress /Akismet (spam filter) issue… sorry for the inconvenience..

          • You can fix it by refreshing the page and your comment will reappear where its suppose to be. I do it all the time.

      35. So……
        They were proposing, if you nuts, you could legally carry a concealed gun (with a permit of course) into into one of these places, whip it out and whack half a dozen people before the sane ones also legally carrying a concealed guns could work out where the shots are coming from and identify who was shoot’n.

        And that’s supposed to make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

        There was University study, where they gave guns with blanks to have the students in a class, and a mock assassin came in, not one student got a single round off, and one student would have shot himself.

        So yeah, the more guns in public hands, the safer the country is. Shame they can’t us the same logic for Nuclear Weapons though.

        • Just Nuts

          So your proposing that a someone so inclined to commit mass murder would obey the gun free zone law and not perform a mass shooting because having the gun is illegal?

          Your also proposing that the criminal has a monopoly on lethal force and the law abiding have no means of defense? Using that logic lets ban police from the area too.

          How does your proposal make people safer? If a nut desired to being in a gun they can. Such places are incapable of having airline level security entries.

          “There was University study, where they gave guns with blanks to have the students in a class, and a mock assassin came in, not one student got a single round off, and one student would have shot himself.”

          Why do we then bother to arm police officers?

          • Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you through experience.

            If anyone is watching, it will be impossible for them to tell which of you is the idiot.

        • Just Nuts

          “So yeah, the more guns in public hands, the safer the country is. Shame they can’t us the same logic for Nuclear Weapons though.”

          Brilliant. The Second Amendment covers hand held weapons. Actually we got the idea from Switzerland (see below).

          Switzerland issues a true selective fire Assault Rifle to it’s civilians with ammo and crime is low. Israel is in the same boat. When is the last time you read about a mass murder in an Israeli school? Do the Islamic crazies not have the desire? Nope. Do they not have the weapon? Nope. Process of elimination defaults to not having the capability due to the school and faculty possessing the means of defense.

          Criminals, terrorists and nut cases don’t obey the law. The only way to stop unlawful lethal force is with lawful lethal force. This is why police are armed but they’re too few in number.

        • @ Just Nuts:

          Please tell us more about this “University” study you refer to. Do you have a link?
          Did the students have firearms training, or were the weapons just handed to them before the exercise?

          Inquiring minds want to know.

          • It was no “study” but rather a staged mock event shown on the TV show 20-20.

            The fact that some people flee the kill zone infers that someone can drop one of these nuts if equipped to do so. If an armed response was not the solution why bother to call the cops?

            The only way to stop unlawful lethal force is with lawful lethal force.

      36. OK, I’m all fired up again thanks to the libturds. Santa is taking me to a gun show this weekend for some goodies. BI, the natural right of self defense is near and dear to my heart just like it is to everyone else’s here. My rights come from God, not from anyone’s manmade government, they are not negotiable,and tampering with self-defense is the same as tampering with human life itself. That is a red line that should never be crossed by anyone. Everyone is free to do whatever they want for themselves, but i have already been ignoring certain restrictions on self-defense going back to 9/11. i carry certain nonlethal defense items in my truck with me wherever i go. I refuse to go outublic without some means of protection against the predators out here. Complying with such laws carries a price tag: YOUR LIFE! I refuse to become a victim. I won’t go into the dark night without putting up a fight. Ahab, you’re right on target about the “yellow peril”; they don’t want to come under our fire when they invade us. Possee and Coco, I may even join you in ranting on these issues. Coco, I’m even starting to look at jews the way you do. I’m so sick of all this crap i want to puke. Best wishes to all. Braveheart

        • Braveheart, be careful about the Jew thing. Remember, there are a lot of people from all different faiths and cultures and the majority are good people just trying to live their lives and struggling with the same issues as you do.

          When considering the upper echelons of power, remember that it is not the ‘Jews’ but the Zionists that are the ones with the power and the malicious intent.

          And don’t forget, we have our own Zionists here in the states, it’s not just a Palestine issue. The PNAC cabal and AIPAC are in my opinion, greater threats to our nation than any other country.

          • Fucking Jews start all the wars, control the media to brainwash the idiot populace, control the central banks to force the world into grinding poverty, kill and enslave the Palestinians, steal land, and believe that non-Jews have no souls.

            Fuck the fucking Jews. 6 million more.

            • Adoff

              Quit the ignorant diatribe.

              • One of the greatest 2nd Amendment advocates was Aaron Zelman founder of JPFO. May he be known for good. In my opinion only Neal Knox himself can stand next to him.

                Aaron and Jay Simkin researched in detail the relationship between genocide and disarming civilians. Their information they assembled is the data seen on various pro gun blogs.

          • Hey timmy AND Daisy also!

            1st as per daisys comment on differences as tim says from jew to zionists…CONSIDER: ALL swear by Talmude. Even Non zios who say They use the 5 books of old test(moses written)…So what?

            When it comes down to it all..ALL admit or believe Talmude is Superior to Every/ALL mans laws and ALL laws anywheres in world or Universe!

            The Only main diff from each seems to be Anti-zio jews think zionists need Wait for Messiah Prior to going back into isreal lands.

            Even so called atheists jews are usually Raised from Birth with exact Same ideals and “master” race crapola.

            Daisy its your choice to do so..But if you want or can Please next time you speak to your NY jewish pals, Ask them this question ok and if you do please post their reply Here ok…Thank You in advance if you choose to.

            QUESTION FOR so called “GOOD” type jews…

            Whos Side will You take if for any reasons america got into Real War with Isreal?

            If You are a true patriot american citizen, and say Isreal Spies did some evil Again and due to THEIR crap it escalated into War?…WHICH nation do YOU support or Fight to protect?

            Not certain if such a question may be best asked in Person so you can View their eyes and reactions and body english etc?…Probobly so…Easy to lie on phone eh.

            PS should be ZERO hesitation to answer if sincere patriot no?..Any switch topics evations etc seems Fishy to say the least.

            I bet every true patriot HERE this site wont hesitate to choose america as long as it is a Just action/war eh.

            What will They choose?….Same can be said of Many Illeagles eager to get fast track citizenship yet refuse to learn Our languages nor assimilate and never hesitate to Tell us “We refuse to assimilate to Your ways or languange and historic ideals etc!”

            I seen Live tv of Kalif city councils where such was stated by every mex packed in the room…And said with foaming at mouth Vengence like rabid dogs..

            Usually jews is More loyal to jews/isreal than that even…Hmmmmm…

            PS I aint saying that zero “good” jews or mexicans exists…But I sure seen alot More of mexican varity as such…

            And I spent 25 yrs Daily working for and In homes and buisness’s of jews…99+% are exactly what some would expect…Too bad that 99% makes it look so bad for the rest(1%) eh..

            PS I mentioneed isreali or jew spies…Since WWII probobly at least 295 or more spies got Caught in usa some isreali some homegrown usa jews…Only about 3-4 spies was NOT jewsih!

            With such best buddies and allies?…Who needs enemys?!!

            IMHO= Regardless How well you think You are awakened or how much you learned so far?

            Once you truly become “jew-wise”…Thats when your Eyes really open wide!…And you are forced to Re-learn alot again…Well Worth effort if you care of truth though.

            And like truth on a witness stand…What good is Less than whole truth?…1/2 is worse than lies at times…

            Thanks again Daisy…..

        • If it quacks like a duckand waddles like one, I’ll dress it out like a duck…

          • No ducks near here quacks in Yiddish that I heard as yet!

            OyVey! Ole’ and YOmomma…Duck sounds from beautifull Detroit areas!

      37. Legal Carry –

        In a world where the very dumbed down Law Dawgs(blue pigs) and their TRAITOR lying criminal fraudulent thieving Politician Masters and bribed “Rapists of Lady Justice” Court Systems are Infested with Corruption and Greed , where a criminal has moire Rights than their Victims …

        You’d be a Fool not to Carry a Concealed Weapon of some kind when on the mean streets , in today’s NWO ZOG UN FED COMMIE GOV POLITICAL MAFIA CRIMINAL CONTROLLED WORLD !

        predator or prey ?

        Which are You ?

        ~N.O. ;0P

      38. Let’s be glad this had enough popular support among the public and the legislature to get as far as it did. We had the same problem with CCW back in 1999. Columbine happened and we didn’t get to carry legally until 2001.

      39. Keep the engine bloc heater plugged in Okie…

        • Ted, how did you know I was playin’ in the snow on a hill in Utah? Dang it’s cold up here!

      40. 21K


        (NaturalNews) In the wake of the recent Sandy Hook shooting, I reached out to my contacts in law enforcement, military and (retired) FBI over the last three days, asking three simple questions:

        #1) Do you think Obama will use executive orders to demand nationwide gun confiscation?

        #2) If such an order is given, will you or fellow members of your organization enforce it against the citizens? (And if so, how?)

        #3) What is the solution to stopping future mass shootings?
        I posed these questions to one ex-FBI agent, one retired Sheriff’s deputy, two active duty city police detectives, one retired former police captain of a major U.S. city, two U.S. Army veterans and one USMC veteran, discharged several years ago after two tours in Afghanistan during which he sustained a severe personal injury.

        Link to follow.

        • “Door-to-door confiscation by men and women in blue [i.e. city cops] would be a suicide mission.” ….many would simply resign on the spot rather than risk their lives in firefights with determined gun owners

          common sense working at it’s finest.

      41. Here is the thing I don’t understand. We started 2 fucking wars, spent a trillion or more and dissolved all sorts of rights to fight the ‘war on terror’. Even if they confiscated every firearm from every US Citizens they could get there hands on, NOTHING they would have done would stop some muslim terrorist from picking up some AK-47’s in south/central America and walking over the boarder and slaughtering school children or other ‘soft targets’, like they have already done multiple times in Israel.

        If some sicko weirdo nutjobs doped up on prozac, freaking everyone around them out, telescoping their actions for days, weeks, months, getting into altercations and posting their intentions on facebook and youtube pulls this crap, wouldn’t a terrorist be able to do it too?

      42. Just going over my To Do list for the next 12,000 years…

        But new Mayan calendar–check
        Pre pay next 144,000 months of Netflix–check
        Get a parka in case of a mini ice age–check
        Survey ocean front property in Denver in case the glaciers melt–check
        Get 12 more ‘Happy Millenium’ party banners–check
        Stock 4 1/2 million fresh One-A-Day vitamins–check
        Collect $20 from brother who bet me that Edgar Cayce was a fraud–check

        Looks like I’m ready. Bring on the earth changes!

      43. Mayan-aise

        I have to admit, I’m kinda down on the Mayans lately. To me, they’re one of the most over rated cultures in history. Other than tossing a few maidens into volcanoes, and inventing a delicious sandwich spread, what did the Mayans ever do that was noteworthy?
        According to archaeologists, the ancient Chinese invented gun powder, fireworks, pizza, and styrofoam peanuts. Without them, we’d celebrate July 4th by holding up signs saying ‘Whoooosh! Pow! Sparkle!’ It wouldn’t be the same. Plus, we couldn’t send anything breakable in the mail.
        The Egyptians built the great pyramids using nothing but sand and massive amounts of super-glue. Plus they had some really cool stories about cats in the afterlife.
        The Hebrews gave us the old testament of the Bible, as well as a hereditery link to every movie producer in Hollywood. Not to mention the concept of adjustable rate mortgages and ATM fees.
        The Vikings gave us the long-boat, an intense fighting spirit, and a very disappointing football team in Minneapolis. Plus the genetics for all those blonde, blue eyed vixens hawking liquor and mens razors on television commercials(peroxide and contact lenses later made this contribution irrelevant).
        The Africans gave us Lucy, the worlds earliest comic strip psychiatrist and ancient nemesis to Charlie Brown. Once they got to America and overcame the whole slavery thing, they gave us some of the greatest running backs in world history. Plus a couple of killer barbecue restaurants in Little Rock. (oh, and a killer running back named OJ) But they also gave us B.B. King, Chuck Berry, Charlie Pride and Bill Cosby. That’s enough to make up for OJ AND the Crips. So, overall, they’re a definite positive to the country (if you don’t factor in Detroit or rap music).
        The Irish gave us a thirst for whiskey. As well as beautiful women with red hair, and the temperment to go with it. Early Irish folk tales claim the whiskey came AFTER the women with red hair, and that certainly makes sense to me. And the Emerald Isle should also be remembered as the birthplace of the DeLorean automobile, without which, time travel would be impossible.
        Many, many cultures down through the centuries have made lasting contributions to humanity. Even the Okies, poor and uneducated as they generally are, have given us Toby Keith, Vince Gill, Garth Brooks, AND Reba McEntire. And the longest winning streak in college football history (look it up if you doubt it, almost 4 Years undefeated)
        But what did the Mayans give us? Aside from that pesky calendar? An invention? A celebrity? Even a 4th runner up on American Idol? Anything?

        • You are on a roll….

        • Okie: mayans did give humanity 2000 differnt ways to Eat your neighbors and fellow tribesmen Raw too!

          ps before eating a mayan cannibal Feast(xmass turky or Cannibal? decisions decisions) Make Certain you Fisrt Rip their beating Heart Out of their chests, after use of very sharp rock knife to slice chest cavity open of course. THIS MUST be done while dinner guest is Still Alive!!……Burp!!

          ps after fully skinning save entire human skin piece to later Wear so as to absorbe dead spirit into Your spirit as that will enhamce Your “powers”!

          DISCLAIMER: I read of that stuf from an article that included several postings taken from Original Diaries of various Sailors aprox 500 yrs ago when they first discovered them mayan folks…One said in all his yrs at sea, after viewing every island and occupants in world.

          Nowheres did he ever see such Brutal inhumanity and rabid thirst for blood as when he laid eyes on mayans the first time. Even hardned lifelong sailors and Pirates types with battle scars as proof got scared shitless and were puking their guts out!

        • @ Oakie

          How about swarms of “brown squat-monster” descendants we call illegal aliens?

      44. YEE-HAAAAAA!!!!

        No more daydreaming of being the lefty sniper in “Saving Private Ryan”, working a “righty” 1903 springfield lightning fast. Lefty Savage .308 on the way.

        Oh, by the way…if you’re looking for affordable .308 you would most likely get struck by lightning first! Every online dealer has 2-6 month backorder on the stuff.

      45. this governor just signed a blank-check death warrant for everyone in the state of Michigan… this issue goes beyond just schools being “victim zones”, it includes every public gathering place that is stipulated in the codes – places that everyday people frequent everyday… i will never travel there because my safety and that of my family is too important to give them one penny of my money even for a gallon of gas if we were only passing through… a shooting like Sandy Hook could occur anywhere in that state and there would be no options allowed

      46. Made the rounds to the area’s gun shops yesterday, to take the pulse of the people.

        All believe that the second amendment is what keeps the freedoms we have left going. Also 97% believe there will be an assault weapons banned in the next 30-60 days and more than likely include mag. cap, and possibly an all-out semi-automatic band.

        If the band goes through and there is NO GRAND FATHERING in it, well the 97% feel that the Tyrannical Government we have just declared war on the Constitution and the people of the U. S.

        So we must be real here, I feel that of the 97%, 90% will fold and that leaves 7% to fight for FREEDOM. That’s still a big force of Patriots for someone to deal with. (The 3% said it’s all B.S. and nothing is going to happen).

        I just went home and watched The Patriot, and Red Dawn.

        I’m going to add prep’s idea.

        Home fire: Fire extinguishers are find, but I got some garden sprayers (3 gal size) and use them, cheap, and reusable. Just remember these will not work on electrical, or grease fires.

      47. Marine stands guard at his kids school

        Im hearing that this is becoming more pronounced as this day moves forward
        I have heard one man in California, One in Colorado, and One in Tenneesee..

        This act needs to seep across the country

        these men are un-armed, greeting arrivals, dressed in thier uniforms

        of course the armed forces are ordering them to stop..none of them should..we need to take control , We the people, because the government and municipalities will not.
        these men should be backed, and and honored.
        And this should grow until the point is made.

        • To be honest, we dont need a uniform or be a part of the military to do this,

      48. If Obama is opposed to guns, why did his administration just purchase 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and sniper rounds?

        “An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland.” — Adolf Hitler, 1922.

        In the aftermath of the recent Sandy Hook shooting, Obama and his cohorts are screaming about how they all despise guns and ammo. Guns are the problem in America today, we’ve been told from every corner of the media, and so the only solution is to get rid of all the guns.

        But not exactly. There’s one organization in America that’s loading up on masses of assault rifles and enough ammunition to run a 10-year shooting war. That organization is, of course, the U.S. federal government and its Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which has purchased a total of 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition to be used domestically, inside the United States.

        It begs the question: Why does the Department of Homeland Security — named after Hitler’s “Office of Fatherland Security” — need 1.6 billion rounds of ammo?

        Obama’s government stockpiles weapons of mass destruction

        The DHS began all this in April of this year, with the purchase of 450 million rounds of hollow point .40 caliber ammunition. This is significant for two reasons:

        1) DHS does not fight wars with foreign nations. It’s entire theater of operations is on U.S. soil, dealing solely with the American people.

        2) Hollow point ammunition is banned by the Geneva convention and is not used by the U.S. military. This ammunition can only be used domestically, in the United States, against U.S. targets or people.

        Along with these 450 million rounds of ammunition, DHS also purchased $400,000 worth of radiation protection pills and thousands of bullet-proof roadside checkpoint booths. Is it expecting a radiological event? (Or perhaps planning one?)

        These 450 million rounds of ammo, Natural News calculated, is enough to wage a 7-year war with the American people.

        Obama’s government stockpiling millions of rounds of ammo to arm the DHS and TSA

        You can see the original federal purchase document requesting all this ammunition , its on line.

        The numbers in the document, by the way, are in thousands.

        In it, you’ll discover that the U.S. government has also purchased all the following ammunition in addition to the 450 million rounds of .40 hollow point “anti-personnel” ammo:

        • Over one million rounds of hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
        • Over half a million rounds of non-hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
        • 220,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #7 ammo (target ammo)
        • Over 200,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #00 buckshot ammo (tactical anti-personnel ammo)
        • 66,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun slugs (tactical anti-personnel, anti-vehicle rounds)
        • Over two million rounds of hollow-point .357 Sig JPH (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
        • Over four million rounds of .40 S&W JPH (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
        • Over 60,000 rounds of .308 match grade anti-personnel sniper rounds (BTHP)
        • Plus, hundreds of thousands of additional rounds of .38 special, .45 auto, 9mm, 7.62×39 (AK rifle) ammo, and others.
        DHS then buys another 750 million rounds of anti-personnel ammunition

        A few months after buying the 450+ million rounds of ammo to be stockpiled by Obama’s government in the United States, the DHS then went on to purchase another 750 million rounds of ammunition.

        Additional contracts were added after that, bringing the grand total of government ammo purchases in 2012 to 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition. That’s over five bullets for every American man, woman and child. It also includes long-range sniper rounds.

        By comparison, a citizen is considered to be a stockpiling “terrorist” prepper if they own just 1,000 rounds of ammo. The government, however, can purchase billions and the mainstream media doesn’t even question it.

        Where is all this ammunition going? It’s being stockpiled by the federal government, awaiting some future event during which it will apparently be “activated.” Why else would you stockpile something if you don’t anticipate needing to use it someday?

        During all this, Obama and his cohorts in Washington are loudly insisting that American citizens have no right to purchase firearms or ammunition, and that new laws will soon be enacted to make sure you cannot do what the government does: stockpile weapons and ammo.
        Obama has armed security personnel for self defense, but YOU can’t have self defense

        The United States of America was founded on the idea that an armed citizenry is the only thing that can be trusted to keep government honest, but that idea has now been turned upside down. The new message today is that an armed government is the only thing that can be trusted, and that individual citizens are all potential terrorists and mass murderers.

        While Obama, Feinstein, Bloomberg and others are calling for citizens to give up their self defense tools, those very same people all have armed bodyguards to provide for their own self defense. Obama in particular has an entire group of men — the U.S. Secret Service — who are most definitely armed to the teeth and wielding full-auto weapons.

        Will Obama now call for his own Secret Service men to give up their guns and ammunition? Will Bloomberg give up his armed police escorts and security personnel? Will the White House be completely disarmed and have a “Gun Free Zone” sign placed outside the White House lawn?

        Of course not. What Obama, Bloomberg, Schumer, Feinstein and all these tyrants practice is a cynical double standard. They want YOU to give up all your guns and rights, but THEY refuse to do so. It’s okay for them to be armed, but not you. You can’t be trusted because you’re just a hard-working American taxpayer / slave. Only the government elite can be trusted with guns, you see, because government is so incredibly honest, ethical and trustworthy. And anyone who questions that is obviously a terrorist.

        That’s the new insanity in Washington D.C. and apparently across the mainstream media where twits like Piers Morgan smear our TV screens with imbecilic profanity as they rant and rave about American citizens giving up all their guns while the government stockpiles masses of assault rifles and billions of rounds of ammunition.

        Piers Morgan, in case you haven’t figure it out, is precisely the kind of traitorous tory America’s founding fathers would have hanged from a tree in 1776. That this frothing talking moron, a British subject, even sets foot in America today and calls for the mass disarmament of the American people is tantamount to an act of deliberate sabotage of the very nation that already defeated the British in one war. Morgan is an enemy of America and a traitor to humanity.
        The picture is now becoming clear

        The government plan for the use of all these guns and ammunition is now becoming clear. It is a plan to engineer a civil war. Here’s how it works:

        Step 1) Obama stockpiles billions of rounds of ammunition, assault rifles, bullet-proof checkpoint booths and sniper rounds for the government while training up a whole new army of psychopathic sex predators known as the TSA.

        Step 2) Mass shootings of children are either staged or encouraged to make sure they happen with rising frequency. (Aurora, Sandy Hook, etc.). Schools are advertised as “Gun Free Zone” to make sure mass shooters doped up on psychiatric drugs and hypnotic video games know exactly where to go to achieve the highest body count, unopposed by any firearms.

        Step 3) When the shootings take place, the media jumps on board the emotional bandwagon and parades dead children in front of the public to the point of emotional extortion. The public then leaps to the delusion that gun confiscation will be great for everyone!

        Step 4) The government then stages a radiological false flag event in a major U.S. city while framing a group of patriots, veterans or “preppers” as patsies.

        Step 5) This event, which kills 1+ million people, then provides the pretext to declare martial law, suspend the entire Bill of Rights and roll out TSA checkpoints nationwide. TSA agents, who have already proven themselves to be the most masochistic, sick-minded individuals working in government today, are then handed .40 caliber pistols and rifles (yes, they make rifles that shoot .40 pistol ammo) to start waging a shooting war against the American people.

        Step 6) Now it’s all-out civil war: Americans shoot each other up, causing huge casualties on both sides. Much of the weapons and ammo stockpiled by American preppers and patriots is used up in this conflict, and that’s exactly the point.

        Step 7) Once the civil war has torn America apart, the United Nations lands UN “peacekeeping” troops to take command and occupy America. This will be accompanied by strict “gun control” mandates and constant surveillance of the American people with facial recognition cameras, audio-recording street lamps in the cities, and airborne drones watching from the sky.

        Obama is given another Nobel peace prize — mission accomplished! — for enabling the UN takeover of America. The globalists celebrate.
        Why we need the Second Amendment for our own survival

        Events like Sandy Hook, you see, are all part of the scripted escalation of violence in America, culminating in the government’s declaration of war against citizens. This is precisely why we need the Second Amendment:

        “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms,” said Thomas Jefferson, “. . .is to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”

        The only way America has a chance to halt the violence, defend the Constitution and restore the Republic is to stay armed and stay vigilant. Because let’s be clear: the Obama administration is a criminal operation. The signing of the NDAA, all by itself, should have been clear grounds for not just impeachment, but prosecution for treason.

        We are dealing with an out-of-control gang of tyrants in the White House, in DHS and TSA. There are some good men and women inside the FBI, the Pentagon and even the CIA, believe it or not. Those men and women are just as frustrated with what’s happening inside the White House as we all are, and they are ready and willing to defend America against criminal traitors like Eric Holder, for example. Once this all starts to unfold, you will see the federal government having a difficult time keeping all its own people in line. There will be internal fracturing in the federal chain of command, and there may even be break-out groups that seek to overthrow the traitors and restore basic liberties in America.
        Six undeniable facts

        How all this actually plays out in anyone’s guess, but there are several points I can assure you are very real:

        Fact #1) The government is arming to the teeth, stockpiling more than five rounds of ammunition for every American man, woman and child.

        Fact #2) The American people are also arming to the teeth, buying up millions of firearms and billions of rounds of ammunition at a record pace.

        Fact #3) The Obama criminals have become arrogant and stupid, thinking they can pull off anything. They will over-estimate their power and soon overstep their bounds in trying to crush the remaining liberties of the American people. There will be a huge reactionary counter-effort.

        Fact #4) There are good people still within the government and especially the military who are loyal to the Constitution and despise the communist-influenced gang that now occupies the White House.

        Fact #5) The government can and will stage false flag attacks to blame its enemies and centralize power. This is true throughout human history.

        Fact #6) Something much larger than Sandy Hook is in the planning stages, I believe. Look for a radiological attack of some sort, such as a dirty bomb being set off in a major U.S. city by a rogue group working under Obama.

        This will be used to terrorize Americans and blame patriots, unleashing an all-out war against individual liberty in America. Wake Up!

        Lock and Load.

        • You have to take the fight to them and Washington, D.C. and Wall Street are primary objectives. Secondary objectives would be state capitols. No use shooting up the countryside. If a false flag occurs we should act and not wait for THEIR ORDERS. Won’t happen. We are not organised or have any plans except the one we made for ourselves. Most talk a big story but you can bet when it all starts up, no more mention of school killings will ever hit the news media again. We are just wasting time on a tragic event. So is it gun control or a dollar crash that sends us over the edge. VRF made a stunning editorial above. JayJay also had a good tread to read. Why is it so hard to put it all together?
          So who do we fight first? The Jews. BLacks or Mexican immigrants. Politicians or Law Enforcement. Chinese or U.N. No more GRAY AREA. Pick one!

        • .gov’s Achilles’ heel is the mountian of money required to run the machine daily. A large false flag event will cause confidence in the US economy to evaporate. They have made many enemies across the world, most of whom would jump at the chance to give the knife a turn. Omitting even one freebie payment to the moocher class will cause many of them to turn on .gov. They are scared shitless.

          As FBP says, the hard part will be surviving .gov’s death throes.

      49. Those legislators made the mistake of thinking this was about public and schools safety. It has never been about that. It is and always has been about securing power for high ranking politicians. They KNOW bad times are headed their way!! Armed peasants would just mess their plans up drastically!!

      50. how smooth must be the language of the white mans goverment, when they can make right look like wrong and wrong look like right.
        black hawk (sauk)

        • the last question is the answer, just like any other politician

      51. Just make all guns illegal, just like, drugs…..
        then taxpayers can spend billions (to stimulate the economy) on more govment lackey schyster employees who will do as they are told, and vote Democratic…and we will have another “War on inaminate objects”, which we need, cuz look how well the “War on Drugs” is working….
        Please pass the kool aid…!

      52. That’s because they want us DISARMED……PERIOD !!!!!!!

      53. Happy End of the World Day Everyone.

      54. I go to sporting events. Toget into the event, you have to pass through a metal detector and no weapons, that includes knives of any ize and pepper spray are allowed in. If guns are allowed in, me and my money stop going.

        • Cool, a new paid troll, welcome

        • You said you have a CCWP. You carry on the second Tuesday of the week?

        • JoeinNC

          They have metal detectors at your Church?

          You wouldn’t know would you?

      55. I guess the house of the Lord is not such a safe place if you feel you must go armed. I guess your imaginary freind is not so protective of his flock after all. But, if you are saved, it should not matter if you die, so why worry so much about preserving your fleshly body. Another glaring hypocrisy of people who flaunt their christainity.

        • Sorry, Joe, you got it backwards. Our Christianity is in our hearts (Concealed caryy- sort of). It’s the guns that we flaunt (open carry).

        • So, Joe, you are perfectly content with Christians being vulnerable to evil.

          Excuse me sir, but your bigotry is showing.

      56. This is the letter I wrote to the Governor and the response I received back

        This recent veto seems to be a feel good measure and a knee jerk reaction to the Sandy hook tragedy and not based on any fact or constitutional authority.Per your release…

        Snyder had urged that SB 59 be modified to more significantly restrict pistols in those zones by prohibiting open-carry in such places, in exchange for allowing only concealed pistols to be carried if license holders receive additional training – subject to the right of the property owners to prohibit concealed carrying if they desire. Under the bill as passed, only private venues can opt out, as can college universities with constitutional autonomy.

        “While we must vigilantly protect the rights of law-abiding firearm owners, we also must ensure the right of designated public entities to exercise their best discretion in matters of safety and security,” he said. “These public venues need clear legal authority to ban firearms on their premises if they see fit to do so.”

        Under this logic, if a private venue wants to racially discriminate on its premises that would be perfectly fine to the Governor

        .And I am very sure that the second amendment has no provision that extra training must be obtained or certain areas like public or private venues are required or your right to keep and bare can then be infringed.

        In fact I dont read any qualifiers to the 2nd amendment whatsoever. It is plain as day, clear as crystal and in common non lawyer speak so as to not be misinterpreted.

        Anyone wanting to change to the language or meaning or content of the constitution has a legal and proper way of doing so, all other ways are unconstitutional.

        Our right to protect ourselves and children in school or church or at the hospital has once again been taken away from us by a politician that is not following the constitution.

        Does Governor Snyder make his armed security wait at the door when he enters one of these areas? Well then PLEASE don’t make your fellow Michigander’s.

        Your recent veto is just as infringing on the 2nd amendment as an all out ban, and gives psychopaths like the Sandy hook shooter, perfect “gun free” targets to do their worst.

        Please reconsider your veto and stand up for the Constitution you swore to protect and defend. Thank you

        The Governors response:

        Thank you for your recent correspondence sent to my office.Â

        Senate Bill 59 offered a number of wise and necessary reforms to Michigan’s weapon laws. The bill provided for an enhanced Concealed Pistol License that would require additional training. It would streamline the Concealed Pistol License process by eliminating county gun boards and vesting issuing authority with the sheriff.

        More important, SB 59 looked at a feature of Michigan law that needs fixing – Michigan’s open carry law. The law currently prohibits a concealed pistol license holder from carrying a concealed weapon in a “pistol-free zone,” which includes a school, a day care center, a sport stadium, a bar, a church, a hospital, an entertainment facility, and a college classroom or dormitory. Ironically, current law does not prevent a concealed pistol license holder from openly carrying a pistol at these places.

        My original hope with Senate Bill 59 was to reach a compromise by prohibiting the open carry of pistols in the above-mentioned pistol-free zones in exchange for lifting the prohibition on the carrying of concealed weapons in these zones — subject to the approval of the public or private property owners.

        The resulting bill only went part way in achieving that goal. The bill would allow private property owners to prohibit a person from carrying a concealed pistol on their private property. It permits certain universities and colleges to adopt an ordinance prohibiting the carrying of a concealed pistol. Unfortunately, the bill did not allow public schools, day care centers, or public hospitals to prohibit persons from carrying concealed weapons on their premises. For that reason, I have vetoed Senate Bill 59.

        I believe it is important that these public institutions have clear legal authority to ban weapons from their premises: Each is entrusted with the care of a vulnerable population and should have the authority to determine whether its mission would be enhanced by the addition of concealed weapons.

        This conversation is likely to continue over the coming months. I hope you’ll continue to share your comments and concerns with my office.


        Rick Snyder

      57. Mac,

        Please put the NRA press conference story/vid up so we can comment on it.

        It was mighty powerful…

      58. For general info, Utah allows CCW carry in all public schools. Teachers are also allowed to carry. Many firearms instructors give the CCW class free of charge and many will give additional training for active shooter scenarios to teachers.

        To date there hasn’t been a problem and I fully support it. In some schools there is 5 or more teachers carrying and as far as we know at least one in every school.

        It’s not mandatory and it shouldn’t be. But for those that chose to do so I applaud them. They are the first line of defense for an active shooter situation.

      59. Michigan’s anti-gun rights statutes violate it’s own state Constitution.

        Ignore illegal edicts, carry everywhere. Our natural inalienable rights listed in the Constitution aren’t up for negotiation or compromise.

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