Green Acres is the Place to Be: City Dwellers Increasingly Turn to Farming to Survive Economic Crisis

by | Jul 6, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness, Headline News | 233 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When millions lose their jobs and have no hope of finding gainful employment, what options do they have for keeping food on the table?

    The obvious answer for those who have become dependent on government safety nets is nutritional food assistance, and to date, more than 48 million Americans have come to rely on the program to stay alive.

    But what if your country reaches its breaking point? What if the price of essential food gets so high due to inflation or supply issues that not even food stamps provide enough help to maintain a healthy diet? What if the very safety net established by government begins to tear? Then what?

    The majority will have no other option but to scrounge for food in the streets… or starve. We’re already seeing this across America and Europe as tens of millions of people struggle to adjust to a dead or dying consumptive paradigm.  These people have not yet realized what has happened and they hold on to the hope that their political leaders will somehow change the inevitability of a disastrous outcome brought on by a system that has been overloaded with debt, overspending, irresponsibility and moral hazard.

    Those, however, who have come to the realization that the economy is not rebounding, that jobs have either been vaporized or permanently outsourced, that things are going to get much worse before they have any chance of getting better, have begun taking steps to ensure that they’ll not only have larder for their families, but a source of income, however paltry.

    As easy money made it possible for mass urbanization (and suburbanization) during the widespread global build-outs of the last two decades, the collapse of the lending system and credit in general over the last few years has forced many individuals in Europe and the United States to look at other options. In a scenario such as that in which we find ourselves today, where jobs are scarce, prices are high, and socialization becomes economically impossible to maintain, enlightened individuals are doing exactly the opposite of what they’ve been taught to do. They’re no longer heading to cities for high paying tech or finance jobs. They’re headed back to their ancestral roots – back to the rural countryside to try their hand at a different lifestyle.

    As has been the case for the last few years, we can turn to Greece for an understanding of what’s to come, as they are a country that has taken the worst of the collapse so far, but one that is certainly not alone in the troubles being wrought on its people.

    As he digs and gathers, he tells me his story.

    “I worked as a sales representative for many years,” he explains.

    “So many hours in the office, so many hours in my car. Many hours lost from my life.”

    But those hours, those years of work did not end with happy retirement and a pension.

    Instead, while still in his mid-40s, Aristotelis Loukas was made redundant.

    Like so many others in Greece nowadays, perhaps 25% of the population, he found himself jobless, unable to find new work, and with a family to support.

    But what Mr Loukas did have was an idea.

    I always wondered how it would be to be a farmer,” he says.

    “Whatever happens with the economic crisis, the sky will still be blue.”

    “We have had applications triple in just the past year,” says Dr Panos Kanellis, the Farm School’s president.

    Many of those showing up have good degrees, even MBAs, but still cannot find a job in the Greece of today.

    “I was shocked,” Dr Kanellis says.

    “They wanted to know how they can use a piece of land that their grandfather owned in a village.

    “They were trying to find an alternative.”

    Certainly, he is aware of the changes demanded of him.

    He laughs as he tells me how he used to be an athlete, but then got old and unfit: “Now in my forties, I have to re-make my body.”

    He looks down at his somewhat rotund figure, and laughs again, a little nervously.

    But in that laugh, there is mirth and optimism, as well as apprehension.

    “When I look back at my life in the office, I think ‘that’s the past, now I have better things to do,'” he says.

    “At least I don’t have thoughts on my mind about banks, about debts. I am okay with my family, and yes, I am happy.”

    Source: BBC News Europe

    Very few of those living in the old paradigm of consumption, debt, and 40-hour work weeks will be able to maintain this lifestyle over the coming decade.

    Nearly four years after the financial collapse of 2008 the majority of global economic indicators in America, Europe and China are suggesting that the situation has worsened, not moved into a recovery phase. What we’ve seen so far in terms of the vaporization of wealth, the destruction of jobs and the impoverishment of millions of once middle-class families is but the opening salvo in a world-wide depression that is sure to change the presumptions we have about global economic and geo-political stability.

    This is only the beginning.

    As such, we urge those who have yet to take steps to protect themselves, to prepare now for a massive paradigm shift that promises to be like nothing we’ve even seen in our lifetimes. It has been suggested that the next decade of human history will be plagued with riots, violence and bloodshed.

    There is, of course, the chance that we’re totally off base and that world leaders and top banking financiers will figure a way out of this mess. But given what has transpired thus far, it would behoove us to look at the alternative as a real possibility.

    That being said, we can take a hint from the Greeks to learn about trends that will be developing here in America. As the economy continues its tailspin we can assume that more people will lose their jobs (permanently), prices for essential goods in terms of real income value will continue to rise, already strained government social safety nets will unravel (and eventually collapse), and the people will be left to fend for themselves.

    This means we need to start focusing on how to preserve our well being now. And that starts with ensuring you will have a roof over your head, food on the table, and skills that will allow you to maintain some level of income or units of exchange to acquire essential goods.

    For those who have the means to do so, consider acquiring rural property at which you can build a shelter, micro farm and raise livestock. For those without such means, there are creative ways to produce your own food and create urban backyard sustainability.

    At the very least, create a preparedness pantry that includes core food groups that can last a lifetime. In a scenario where you experience a job loss or extreme swings in food prices you’ll at least be able to fallback on your reserve supplies, or use them to supplement your diet if money and food supplies get tight.

    One key takeaway from the experience of nouveau Greek farmers is that being skilled in land management, gardening, micro-farming, irrigation, raising livestock, and sustainability are fields of expertise that can be worth more than gold. Experts in these fields, or entrepreneurs that can manufacture tools and equipment, or operate (or rent) farm machinery (or beasts of burden), will find that they can build successful businesses from this rapidly developing trend.

    Now is the time to prepare for the exodus from urbanized metropolitan areas and a return to the rural lifestyle of Green Acres.


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      1. Funny thing is try to grow some veggies in town and there is a good chance they’ll come down on you….Oklahoma of all places cleaned out some poor ladies front yard cause it didn’t look the way they want it. I’d love to plant my front yard into veggies but the homeless that roam the allies around here would steal it all.

        • Jim I read about that poor woman and I was furious! Here are the lessons that I took away from that story:

          A) Don’t plant your stuff out front

          B) Make sure that you have a FENCED backyard, even if you have to pay extra. A real fence, not the chain link kind, or some ridiculous plastic contraption that looks like it was invented by Janet Napolitono to “guard” our borders

          C) Make friends with your immediate neighbors — if possible — but don’t ever let them on your property unless they are “one of us”

          D) Speaking of which, don’t EVER let ANYONE who purports to represent any party of any government on your property without a warrant. That woman mistakenly thought that if she brought the city workers onto her property, they’d see what a nice thing she was doing and leave her alone. How wrong was she? And how sad is that, that this is what America is becoming: a land of bullied subjects at the whim of any number of self important, tax fattened petty tyrants

          E) Make friends with attorneys: the only thing that will surely stop anyone these days (outside of a loaded 12 gauge) is being threatened to be tossed into a pit of live lawyers. Get lawyers guns and (real) money

          F) Most importantly: do not “prep”…prepping means you’re getting ready for something to happen. It is ALREADY HAPPENING! That woman’s story is just one of many instances of how it is already happening. For all the nay sayers and mockers out there, who say that we are prepping for something that is years away, I say to you: even if you’re right, the kind of skills needed are not acquired overnight. I should know: I’ve been flower and veggie gardening for over 25 years, and I’m still learning.

          The time to learn to be a more self reliant American citizen is right now

          stand strong until freedom dawns

          • Why not just make friends with the police? I have several LEOs in my family and they seem fairly reasonable.

            • Point taken… my only point about attorneys is that you can seek them out, hire them for some task or other, build a relationship. However, unless you have relatives who are LEO –as you do — how does one go about cultivating that sort of relationship? I have often believed that the average “cop on the beat” probably takes as dim a view of some of these politicians and bureaucrats as any of us. I’m also sure that many of them are “one of us”, meaning that they too have seen the light and they make darned sure that they have food, water and other vital supplies on hand, “just in case”. It would make sense, seeing as how all too often, they see how fragile life can be, and how quickly things can go wrong.

              Again, though, this is just my theorizing…I literally don’t know the LEOs even in my current residence. How does one go about cultivating such a relationship? And yes, I am 100 % serious, and I am all too willing to learn

              stand strong until freedom dawns

            • The police do what their bosses want them to do.
              They have their pensions to worry about.

            • Until they have their boot at your neck.

              All it takes is a single gubmint drone to label you a perp and then it’s on like donkey kong!

            • SOS…try volunteering at the local PD or SO…Most departments allow citizens to go on ridealongs…Ask to ride with an officer that patrols in your neighborhood. The more rural your department the easier it is.

            • Like anyone else, cops won’t bite the hand that feeds them. There would have to be a full scale freefall meltdown wherein LE depts were so broke that cops weren’t getting any compensation for their services before they decide to stand on the side of liberty and be there for “We the People.” They are corporate assets that are bought and paid for and will stand by their masters until there is nothing left to steal and plunder from the public. Hey…then they’ll maybe want to be your friend!

            • I have a great friend who is a leo. When I first met him, I asked if he fished, he said no, didn’t have the gear so I gave him some and now we fish together all the time and he is a better fisherman than me. He sees whats going on just like the rest of us. Most of the leo’s I personally know are good guys.

            • Im not anti LEO.
              Just a realist. LEOS will do what they are told. Not what is right. They are slaves of the system.

          • “If you control the oil you control the country; if you control food, you control the population.”
            -Henry Kissinger, Former U.S. Secretary of State

            Also, when we grow our own food, we know what has (or has not) been put into it…Genetically modified, chemicals, etc.

            And food tastes so much better when it is fresh from the garden. 🙂

            • “And food tastes so much better when it is fresh from the garden.”

              Absolutely, KY Mom! A mess of green beans fresh picked from the garden are incredibly delicious. Until I tasted them, I had never tasted a real green bean in my life. They are about 1,000,000 better tasting than the canned and frozen glop that passes for green beans among most people. I am sure that other veggies are similar, especially garden fresh corn and squash. 🙂

            • Amen to fresh green beans,sweet corn,squash,tomatoes and cukes. Anyone can grow these with good soil. Growing up in the mountains of NC, my granny and papa made green beans the basis of their winter supplies. They always canned a minimum of 100 quarts of half-runners every summer. With 20 bushels of limed potatoes in the dirt floored basement, all they needed from town each month (to survive) was 25 lbs. of flour,25 lbs. of cornmeal, and 10 lbs of sugar. Oh, don’t forget the instant coffee,tea bags and dried pintos. We did have many other canned goods and plenty of fruit jams, but the green beans and potatoes were our main staples. Never went hungry and seldom got sick.

          • Fence cant stop the drones from snooping on you.

        • Yeah, Jim. Aside from city/county/state officials, don’t forget landlords, for those who are in the position of needing to rent. It is all about the all-important LAWN, doncha know. And don’t even THINK about allowing edibles to propagate that the local HOA or official considers weeds, such as mallow, dandelion, plantain, etc.

          We’ve got a postage-stamp house and yard in town that we rent, but after we dug up old stumps and dying junipers, we planted brussell sprouts, peppers, broccoli, cabbage, tomatoes, peas, pumpkins, a variety of squashes, onions, lettuce, spinach, kale, beets, chard, potatoes, horseradish, and numerous herbs.

          The landlord sent us a letter last week. They thought the yard was too dry (it wasn’t; it is dying because they did an awful job when they sodded it a year ago, and the variety is totally unsuitable for this climate.) They told us we needed to spray herbicides over the property. (Everything we are raising is 100% organic and herbicide/pesticide-free.)

          We responded. Let ’em try to make a deal of it. I’ll have them in court long enough to get everything harvested, canned and frozen. Then they can have their lawn back.

          • you go!!!!!

        • Today’s lesson is simple: adapt or die.

          The Greek tragedy playing out in front of OUR eyes, is probably the best possible thing that could have happened to this particular man.

          The Greek salesman, AL, had wasted his life consumed in work, and had grown “rotund” while in his forties, believing himself an old man. His is a description of a man heading for a heart attack and an early grave.

          Now he is a farmer, probably gets up with the chickens, has his hands and feet in the earth, and smells the sweetness of the soil after a rain.

          He is probably eating raw fruit and veggies now, rather than pitas filled with red meat and pasta. Change is good.

          Life is plastic. Put your stamp on it.

          • “Life is plastic. Put your stamp on it.”

            holy caterpillar durango, can I seriously quote you on that? Or did someone else say it first?

            Anyway, here’s two of my favorites, the first one is my own invention:

            life is like a cellphone with a lousy plan…never enough minutes

            life is short: eat dessert first

          • That’s not just today’s lesson… it’s been the main lesson for all of human history.

            One thing, though… there isn’t enough rural countryside to accommodate everyone and their plans of living off the land.

            The good news (for those among us who prep) is that most folks won’t bother, and will only move deeper into the city as things get worse.

            Out here, I see a lot of growth in-town, and in the city, but rural areas are still emptying out. No one wants to commute 1-2 hours for a job (especially if it’s a job that doesn’t really pay that well), and prospects out here are, well, slender.

            Some tips for living out in the sticks:
            You also lose a lot of anonymity out here, because in small towns and in the countryside, everyone knows everyone else’s business. Now that I’ve lived out here for awhile, folks at the stores and about the towns regularly call me by my first name now (true story: I took a day off earlier this week, and the lady who pumps gas at the station came out shouting “what did you do, Odd, sleep in!?” I always filled-up early in the morning on the commute, and didn’t think about it). Tourists and hikers come and go, but you’re their bread-and-butter, especially when the snow starts falling, so the stores you frequent on a regular basis will come to expect your business.

            Speaking of that, even though gas is way cheaper in Portland (OR), I always fill up before I leave town to go to work on those days I have to go in. Why? The reason is two-fold: One, by doing so I know I’ll always have enough gas to get home, and two, I’d rather give my money to my neighbors. Same with the groceries and the like. Once in awhile, I’ll haul my ass out to a big-box store to get the things that simply cannot be gotten locally, but otherwise, I’ll spend as much as I can here, where I live.

            After awhile, I noticed a change in demeanor in most of the businesses… when my wife or I walk up, it’s friendlier and a lot more genuine than the touristas get – they usually get the fake greetings and routine. It’s often hard to tell the difference until you’ve lived in the area awhile.

            But anyrate, there are a few things you had demaned well better be able to do if you want to survive out here. First, you’d better be a tolerant person. Things that would piss you off in the big city are things you need to pay little attention to out here. If your neighbor is (on occasion) noisy, instead of bitching about it and threatening to call the cops, wander over with a bottle of something and say hello. Odds are great that you’ll get invited to the party. Tolerance also extends to ideology and even lifestyle. Out here, I’ve made friends with a hardcore redneck, a lesbian couple, and an old hippie… and oftentimes all of us are out fishing or shooting together.

            Another thing to keep in mind is that you look out for each other – no exceptions. The phrase “it’s not my problem” does not apply out here; if someone needs and wants help, you jump in and help.

            When you first meet folks out here, do yourself a favor: listen more than talk. Ask questions. Learn.

            Get involved! Join up and support the local 4H, FFA, and other clubs. In my area, this means the Elks, Lions, IOOF, Knights of Columbus, Eagles, Moose, whatever. Most of the local leadership can be found here, and it’s also a great way of blending in while at the same time helping folks out.

            A final initial tip: Stay the hell out of the local politics. At all friggin’ costs. Be friendly with the local authorities (many of whom will be your neighbors anyway), and stand up for yourself if you need to, but don’t engage in any of the crap. That way when collapse hits, you’ll be in the best position to get through to the local powers-that-be, and you will more easily be able to persuade them to do what needs done.

            • excellent advice. been there, done that and it is far, far more rewarding than OQ lets on.

            • Excellent post OQ. There are plenty of benefits and I wouldn’t trade my life for anything. But the rewards for most people out in the country will not come in a currency form. Anyone who thinks they are going to buy a couple hundred acres and make a living working it will find it probably find it impossible.

              The rewards come in different forms. Watching a couple young calves playing, breathing fresh air, sleeping with the windows open at night and listening to wolves howl, hell just seeing the stars, seeing people excersize their 2nd amendment rights in church (I thought it was great), eating out of your own garden, or not losing keys because nothing is ever locked and keys stay in the ignition. I have come home with two extra horses in the barn and a truck missing. Neighbor got caught in some weather and went home to get his trailer. Was really confused until I saw the horses and the note.

              But with less population comes poor roads, longer commutes if you work in town or if you are trying to make it farming you will probably get a second job or third or do odd jobs around town for cash. Your hobby becomes stretching fences. Animals don’t care if it is sunday, or if you were out drinking last night. They will never be sick during business hours or for that matter during nice weather. Your farm equipment will always seem to break down when weather is moving in, even if you haven’t seen rain in a month, clouds will accumulate as soon as you hear that metal on metal bang. I can’t explain that. Everything that breaks will have to be special ordered requiring 2 trips to the dealership. Every year you get a bumper crop, or a fantastic cutting of hay, so did everyone else so the price gets driven down. There was a time I was out in the hayfield so pissed I thought I was having a heart attack, turned out just a panic attack. That was the exact moment I realized I had to take this paragraph in stride and enjoy the prior paragraph. I was trying to control the uncontrollable and failing. For the past couple years now I have tried to take a couple evenings a week and grab a horse and go watch a sunset and remind myself just how good it is.

            • You know where Yamhill and Vernonia are? That’s where the inlaws live. Be seeing them in August we hope. Livestock issues may prevent that.

            • Yep – I know where they both are 🙂

              One thing ab’t Vernonia, though: it’s prone to flooding. The Nehalem River broke its banks in 1984 and in 2007. The last one tore through the town pretty hard. Post-collapse, that would wreck your day pretty hard. On the other hand, if you can get a flood map and get your property accordingly, you should be good to go.

          • Unfortunatly for some of us, we live in the desert and water is a major consideration when trying to grow anything.

        • There have also been the reports of lemon trees being confiscated, as well as the big one! milk! Yes our gov and friends love us dearly. Also dinners as well as other events on small local organic farms being raided by the FDA and USDA thugs (My belief is due to low self-esteem. Cant think of why you would otherwise want to do such a thing) All aside, any violators on your property without a warrant should be promptly shot. Even with a warrant they should be deterred and only allowed to search for what is stated in the current warrant. Fear is their only weapon, we can disarm them with our courage.

          • I wonder how many cops or sheriff’s deputy’s and SWAT check to ensure that the warrants they serve are valid and correct…especially in light of the fact that a large percentage of warrants issued are rubber stamped by judges and are invalid on their face (yes…there is a criteria for a judge to issue a valid warrant. Many if not most warrants issued in my county are actually invalid and should never be served without proper witnesses and testimony).

            But cops are so insistent that they don’t practice law, they just enforce it. That’s their job. Here’s the problem with that. If I, as a building contractor in the private sector, build a home for the home owner (my boss…they guy that writes my checks), and I build exactly what he wants but it is NOT compliant with building codes or violates other regulations, then I AM THE ONE RESPONSIBLE. I, as a contractor, will get fined and prosecuted. But if a cop follows orders from a judge, who issues him invalid warrants, why is the cop not held liable for not checking to ensure he is serving a valid warrant? Why does this rule apply in the private sector BUT NOT in the public sector? It’s like they pick and choose different rules for government than what the rest of us are bound to.

            “We the People” should hold the “cop”, “deputy”, or whomever executes with lethal force an invalid and/or unconstitutional warrant by infringing on our inalienable rights.

        • Why doesnt everyone on this website and infowars do a money bomb for a giant piece of land in each state to form new free communities where everyone has room to breath. Farm farm farm.. Hunt.. Eat eat eat. Everyone could survive off of part time jobs if they buy a singlewide that’s bankowned. I would love a fun freedom living community.

          • Oh yeah, isn’t that a grand idea….as if the majority of us could live communally with NinaO. 😐

        • This may sound crazy but I would do it anyway and if the homeless did take some of it – well you have done what you could to help them.

          • Most will trash what they don’t take.

        • I submitted a comment in response to Jim about planting a garden in his front yard. I would go ahead and plant the garden and consider it my way of helping them.

        • You beat me to it!! How much does a fence cost? How about wire cutters?? Will they outlaw the sell of those?
          How about dh and I sleeping in shifts?
          This is BS…when this happens, this take down of our nation due to evil bankers and politicians..will call for a readdressing of these issues.
          It will take years to regroup—6 months of preps ain’t gonna cut it; but neither is relying on a garden.
          I’m sorry—I just don’t see it.

        • a very big rifle would take care of both those problems

        • your right about that.
          they are already doing garden removels every were and claiming its against city or town ordence.

        • If this happened in Greece, cops will start dying…

        • Go to a farm supply store and get a range fencer and surround your property and they will not attempt to enter your yard.

      2. This is definitely a way to live through the bad times before the nightmare times begin, as long as you have sunlight and a place to put good soil, you can grow a lot. However this should not be considered something that can sustain much after a true SHTF event. More than half of the country has less than 200 days of growing season, and water will be a huge issue when the faucets run dry. Artificial light is not there when the power is lost. After SHTF protection of crops will be extremely difficult also. Most people growing food now is unfortunately still at the level of a hobby.

        There are some extremely positive aspects of growing food, it is excellent practice for when the supermarket is no longer there, AND it teaches people how to make do with what little they have to work with. I can see nothing but good coming from this as long as people realize that this is not going to sustain someone after everything goes to hell, unless they become truly professional at it.

        When someone can obtain water without public waterworks that will always keep your crops moist, find a means of getting near year long full spectrum light for the plants, and a way of protecting them, then this will become a reliable source of food after the collapse. Until this level is reached, home grown food always tastes better and is an excellent way of saving money.

        • One thing I have preached about here until I was blue in the face: Don’t kill those “weeds”! Harvest them! Native plants do not require any additional water to thrive, because they are perfectly adapted to their climate and soil conditions. The only work you need to put in is to learn which ones are edible or medicinal, and to thin, eradicate or halp them, according to each plant’s benefit. Remember, even plants that are not edible or medicinal can be very beneficial: Some repel pests, some add nutrients and minerals to exhausted soils, and some can be served to your local official at tea time. (Just make sure your compost heap is big enough to handle the additional nutrients he will be contributing to your soil.)

          • Yep…While most people try to kill all the dandelions in their yard, I nurture them. The tender leaves make a fine meal cooked up with some bacon in a skillet and the flowers make an awesome beverage when fermented.

            • JRS, You’re right — food at our feet! The dandelion is one of the most functional forage foods. The leaves are a nutrient dense green, the roots that can also be dried, the petals make jelly (and wines), and the inner heart can be cut out and braised or stir-fried.

          • Tell that to my damn neighbors who keep spraying the dandelions; strange thing-their yard looks just like mine now…brown!!!

      3. I wish I had a group to go in on a farming situation. As a single mom with a family who is completely unaware and not paying attention, I feel somewhat helpless. Although I have prepped fairly extensively, I don’t have enough cash to buy a farm nor to run one myself…

        • Michelle: There are lots of people in your exact position. My advice to you would be learn a skill that I would need if I lived in your area. Ranching is much different out west than it is in the east or north compared to the south, same holds true for farming. Different land requirements, weather patterns, different breeds of cattle do better in different areas. Learn a farming skill for the area you plan to retreat to, then teach your kids that skill.
          Most farmers and ranchers don’t have big families like they did years ago because they rely on automation. Take automation away and there will be a void to fill to continue running an operation.
          If I had to go back to putting up loose hay I would be pickled. I rely on balers and machinery.

          Blacksmithing and farrier services will be much needed out west. Leather and saddle repair is another one. If you sew learn to make high quality saddle pads. Butcher. Find a niche that is needed and you will most likely find a home.

          • If you got a ranch, I humbly suggest you do two things:

            1) Horses. If you don’t have any, get some. Not just a couple o’ riding horses, but a draft horse or two.

            2) If you cannot restore one, see if you can re-create or improvise the old horse-drawn threshers, mowers, rakes, and the like. Odds are good that the really small modern machines can be adapted to take a yoke instead of a hitch or pintle.

            • OQ: I agree with owning horses. We have 10 good ranch horses that can do almost anything. Some still a little young but great horses for their age.
              Ground driven hay equipment is extremely hard to find. Some things like dump rakes are everywhere and cheap but a sickle that is ground driven is tough. Most larger modern equipment is hydraulicly driven at least as far as mowers go. I have enough diesel to last me a couple hay seasons on power equipment and enough old sickle mowers and haybines, old balers ect, to patch things together. After that I would be back to cutting by hand and using a dump rake to gather it. Feed what you can feed, eat the rest.
              I won’t buy draft horses. I lose money every year on horses. They are expensive and demand a ton of maintenance. Horses can’t sit idle like equipment. They always cost money even when you are doing nothing with them. I agree that they may be a great purchase, but this year with draught I will be selling alot more than purchasing.

              I won’t lie, I don’t look forward to doing hay by hand. I like air conditioned tractors. I like to check cattle or fences with my horses but I love having a truck to feed them. The transition to the old ways is going to suck for me.
              I am not sure if going back to the native american ways isn’t better. Follow herds south for the winter. Live nomadic.

        • michelle – i have a family from town that is using a small patch of land in the corner of a field to grow their garden.
          in return i get 4 jars of tomatoes and 4 jars of pickles
          and $15 dollars for the use of my well.
          so , find a farmer , and suggest a similar deal.
          most would be open to it.

          • After things have ‘settled’ down, this too I have thought about.
            There are thousands of acres in this community alone not being farmed, even for soy beans or wheat or hay.
            I’d gladly share my canned goods like that.
            Great idea.

        • Hi Michelle,
          Until you find such a group, you should practice growing things, even if they are in pots. When I first began growing in earnest, I had three children by myself, and I was stuck in the blue state gulag known as New England…not a great growing season there. I used butter tubs, ice cream containers and yogurt cups to grow stuff in… all plastic, and people let me have ’em out of their recycle for nothing. Later, I graduated to 3 and 5 gallon containers from bakeries and restaurants… all free. I got cheap seeds, sometimes from neighbors, sometimes from dollar stores and other such places. And I read about growing things. A LOT. Libraries are free, and when I got on that greatest of all libraries — the Internet — way back in ’96 I thought that it was proof that GOD loved me. So many people showing me how to do stuff for nothing…. its what made me the g33k p@tri0t that I am today.
          Plus, it was a fun thing that I had my children involved in…. granted they did get older and then they were “too cool” for Dad, but doesn’t that happen a lot anyway?

          Bottom line: you don’t have to wait for anyone else to get started. And the sooner you get started, the faster you will learn. Here are some things that are easy to grow:


          I know that you can’t eat those last two, but they are fun and easy to grow, and they can all be grown in pots if you have no dirt of your own. And the experience you get will help in the coming years. I hope this helps 🙂

          stand strong until freedom dawns

          • I already have a garden, with tomatoes, peppers, carrots, artichokes, many kinds of herbs, etc…and have had plants for many years… I have grown indoor and outdoor “medicinal” plants (wink) as well…the skills are not the problem, the problem is that I’m in San Diego…I love it here, but when S hits the F it might prove to be a very huge liability. If things don’t get that bad, I might be fine with my preps and the backyard garden. My feeling is that things won’t get THAT bad, but if they do, I might have to flee. If I flee, I’m a refugee…anybody willing to take a refugee with a kid (who can also garden, and is excellent with animals) if need be. I’m also a great cook and I am experienced in natural remedies, and have a good stock of homeopathic and other natural and herbal remedies, etc. I have worked as a painter, lab technician, woodworking, etc…

            Just thought I would throw that out there!!

            • Michelle,
              If you live in Lakeside/Santee(rednecks)you will probably be ok. If you live in the Jamul area you may have some big problems because of the illegals. Most of San Diego except for East San Diego and Logan Heights should be fine. For a big city San Diego is really quiet. In 95 when the Chargers won the AFC West over sixty five thousand people showed up at Qualcom with no cops on scene and nothing bad happened. Same with the big fires four years ago when the evacuations took place, over half a million evacuated and none of the nonsense like in NOLA. Biggest problem here is even though it has the best climate possible there is little rain and that all comes in Winter. If the water goes off then leaving is an option. As you know getting out of here will not be easy due to LA being to the North and the desert to the East plus the Pacific Ocean and Mexico to the West and South. As big cities go San Diego is probably one of the best if things go down the tubes. At least you can live here without heat or air conditioning.

        • Michelle: You can contact your local county extention office for advise on what to grow, when and how to plant, fertilize and water your crops. They usually have a book for sale on how to do it all, we do in our county here in N.Fla. There are also great books on square foot gardening and other approaches to small plots that yield a lot of fruits and veggies. Your kids will love it too. Get started as soon as possible because there is a learning curve. Also read up on your local pests and how to deal with them as well. Oh, and some extention offices also have classes on canning, pickling, and drying your crops for longer term storage. Good luck!

        • Michelle ~

          I am in a similar position. I live in a medium sized city. My entire backyard has been rototilled and planted. This is my first year for doing so, and it’s going okay – some successes and some failures. But if you have any yard whatsoever, it would be my advice to plant the daylights out of it.

          Also look into things you can grow indoors. You can sprout for fresh greens year around and other plants do reasonably in a sunny window.

          Do what you can with what you’ve got – dig in and be determined! 🙂

          • Michelle and Daisy,

            I, too, am a single mother. My daughter and I work hard in our little garden. We do not have a large plot. We started with containers and have moved on to raised beds and square foot gardening. We add on as money will allow.

            Daisy has the right idea. “Do what you can with what you’ve got.” We started out with just a few plants in pots and have grown from there. I have learned a lot from both my successes and failures. You will too.

            The five years that we have been gardening has been a good experience for my daughter and myself. It has been a wonderful activity to do together. It also makes a big difference in the grocery bill and the nutrition of what we eat.

            Keep on Sisters with your gardening!

          • thats the spirit dais! by the way, your garden looks great. eeder.

        • Michelle: You do not have to own a farm to be a farmer. Here is a link for you. There are many more like it to assist you at SHTF Food.

      4. I call mine the Patriot Garden

        corn, beans, tomato, green pepper,and watermellon, next season its getting added onto..more plants, and probably 50 to 70% of it will be canned

        • Have you tried drying/dehydrating some of these things. My wife and i started doing this a little to see how it works and have found it is great. Lots of fruits and veggies need only set in the sun for a time or spend some time in the dehydrator and they keep very well, plus you don’t heat up your kitchen. Don’t get me wrong, we still can a lot too, but drying has turned out to be a great alternative.

          • rainyday,
            Have you ever had any leather britches? I’ve canned about 150 quarts of green beans so far, but now I am starting to dry some for my dad. He loves em, I don’t, but dang if they don’t smell like leather when you cook em. I take a steralized needle and string them up and hang them up to dry. I’m gonna dry some corn too for parched corn.

          • I havent tried that, thanks much for the tip. great idea.

        • Here here !!!
          Canning chicken as I type this, lotsa canning in my future as the garden comes in. What I could really use is a great score of jars at a garage sale….

        • I love that name. I’ve been thinking of mine as my “Freedom Garden,” in the spirit of the old Victory Gardens. Whatever happened to them?

          When I read the articles about food stamps, I wonder why people allow themselved to become enslaved to The Man/The Corp/TPTB or whatever you want to call it, when they can grow their own food with little input. Gardening is certainly hard work, but when I see my food growing, and can it, it’s like giving a huge middle finger to Big Agra, Big Pharma and Big Gov.

          • @ Mama Bear,
            Love it too! We live on a mountain top with a view and call ours, Grandview Gardens. We can see the city in the valley below and hear the constant,distant sounds of rumbling and sirens, see the smog too. I call it the “hell hole”. A big river runs through the middle of it all and fortunate for us it carries most of the pollution down the valley. We work our “organic” garden with composted manure from our three horses (short for grass and hay burners), and water from rain barrels collected from the gutters. Fence is a must because of a never ending supply of deer,rabbits,groundhogs and those dammned racoons. The racoons I hate. They are destructive and viscious. Will eat anything(including your chickens) and will climb, dig, and tear to get to it. Those rabid bastards are evil.

      5. America had it’s Industrial Revolution. Many left the farms to work in factories.

        Now we have the De-industrial Revolution. Welcome back to the farm.

        The only way industry is coming back to America. Presuming no economic collapse. Is mostly automated manufacturing. Only NO labor costs will beat Chinese slave labor costs.

        • Check out the book “Surviving Off Off-Grid: Decolonizing the Industrial Mind” by Michael Bunker. Lot of interesting ideas in there.

        • Not enough “rural America” for the current population. As the baby subsidies buy less and less, it will cause short to medium term problems. The moocher class won’t go quietly, but most won’t be replaced as they die off.

      6. I just read about a House bill that aims to cut food stamps. So much for being dependent on the goober-ment.

        Get some Mountain House or Thrive #10 cans.

        Keep on a-preppin’.

        • The Senate version does not contain those cuts, but attempts to reduce expenses by reducing fraud which never works. Since Democrats control the Senate I doubt we will see any reductions in benefits before the election.

        • Pay attention to what the re-pubes do. They will go after “entitlements” to starve the poor and mis-fortunate, but let the filthy rich get all kinds of tax breaks and dole out billions to overseas projects and wasteful deals. What a crock!

      7. home grown produce always tastes 1,000% better than store bought

        anybody had a store bought tomato worth a damn ??

        • I’ve seen some that had slime on them…not really edible. No store bought food is any good. I work a restaurant and have to deal with the bad stuff. Eww.

      8. Be sure to put a tall fence around it, the deer have been having buffet parties around me…

        • 8 feet! 8 feet! Those deer have some serious jumping skills. Michael Jordan’s got nothin’ on ’em!

          • Put snares in the garden and have venison roast with the home grown veggies. MMMMmmmm mashed potatoes and Bambi Chops with a side of home grown green beans. Just don’t let the neighbor see you, mine is a PETA member and would probably starve to death vs eat anything that is REAL food.

            “You can’t fix stupid” Ron White

            I think that applies to about 80% of this country any more, or at least those who voted for Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc.

            Bumper sticker this morning…. “I voted for Obama to show I wasn’t rasist, I’m voting for anyone else to show I’m NOT STUPID”

            • Just like in Russia, the U.S. population will decline to a level resources can sustain.

              They have a long way to go to catch up with USA, but I notice Russian butts getting latger.

            • This seems, to me, just a variation of the “good cop, bad cop” routine that we have been subjected to for decades. Anybody you get to vote for will be part of the party [ the opposition ].

              “In a way, the world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what
              was happening. By lack of under-standing they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything.”
              1984 [ +28 ]

        • Deer would be the LEAST of your concerns if shtf.

          • No, they will be jerky…

          • Are you kidding? I’d love for a few to show up after SHTF… about one every month would be a good frequency. 😉

            • …kinda like the deer of the month club…+100

          • kevin,
            Actually they would be very tasty and they will be doing home delivery. Maybe they will cook themselves too. A strand of electric wire does wonders. Bit once they don’t come back.

        • That’s steak to go with your veggies 🙂

        • Eppe that means your garden grows meat. If noise is a concern in harvesting them, learn to use a hunting bow.

          • Been there, done that, guns are more harvest useful…

          • check out the cross bows that have up to 400 feet per second capabilities, food tool

        • It also helps to gather old socks, cut them in about four inch pieces, tie one end off with string,fill with powdered blood meal and tie off the other end. Tie these bags onto stakes around your perimeter and or beside certain plants. The deer do not like these! (Real blood on the ground spooks them too.)
          After a rain, let the bag dry a day and then squeeze to ‘re-powder’ the contents.
          The only drawback is that it can draw in the carnivores.
          I did not have a problem with dogs but I could see that happening.
          We lost a whole gallon of fish fertilizer once to a bear. Bet he was happy!

          • I used blood meal and bone meal for my tomatoes, flowers, shrubs and trees for years.
            Not found in this area any longer.

            • The hardware stores up here sell something called Liquid Fence to deter deer. The main ingredients aren’t listed on the container, but it smells like catfish blood bait. Seems to work OK. The six foot fence I put up helped, but some still jumped it. A friend told me to cut up Irish Spring soap and put it around the garden to keep deer out. Haven’t tried it yet.

            • My stupid dog has eaten two bags of bone meal. The moron did not look to happy but he went and did it again. Target and Home Depot both carry them, some brands have a 3-15-0 mixture which works really good especially with manure tea and compost. Don’t forget the epsom salt. It does wonders in the garden.

            • Wasn’t there a concern w/prion disease being carried in the blood & bone meal? I recall an advisory to wear gloves and a mask when applying bone meal, before it became really difficult to find.

              Remember, you do not want to eat summer deer. They are full of parasites. Not sure if freezing or canning kills those adequately. They may do so.

              There is an explosion of tick-borne disease nearly everywhere. Not just Lyme, there are a couple of other diseases borne by ticks, too. These are not just an annoyance. They can mean a life-long disability. Lyme is essentially a deer STD. It is a terrible disease, as are the others.

              Country life means extreme self-reliance, at times. You are responsible for snow plowing your driveway in many places and these are long and sometimes hilly. Just when you finally go out and decide to make some income plowing for others, you will get a mild winter with no snow, but you still have to pay for the equipment. Or you will be hit with floods and mass power outages, which means 12v pumps &/or a generator, plus the repairs, afterward. Taking out trash trees around your buildings by yourself, before the wind storms take them down, is not that advisable. If you know how to do it and can assemble a team you trust, that little chore can cost a lot and so, is an income source. You need to be able to repair your own tractor, plow, snow thrower (not one of those little snow brooms, either)and other equipment. As it is, they last maybe 5-7 years with great maintenance.

              Burn wood and you must clean out the stovepipe every week, besides making sure the chimney is cleaned every fall. Providing your own firewood is expensive, because of the equipment and safety gear, but the reason you need the gear and top drawer maintenance is that it is dangerous. You cannot run a chainsaw in very hot weather.

              Because of the Emerald Ash Borer, firewood now
              cannot be transported out of the township in which it is cut, in my area. Cars are inspected for any firewood in many places in the Northern Tier to prevent spreading the beetle. Container loads of firewood (8-12 face cords) are the most cost effective, but you then need to stack it. Otherwise, it will freeze into an immovable mass in the winter and even a maul might not knock it loose until a thaw. It also needs to dry at least a year to season, in order to burn properly. A 2k sq. ft. home will need 4 cords or so per winter, probably a bit more in a cold year.

              The government has regulations that have driven the costs of septic pumping quite high. This has to be done yearly unless you have a huge tank, then it still needs to be done every 2-3 years. Some areas can’t be permitted for a septic field, so a holding tank is mandated. These need to be pumped every 6 weeks or so. The County Sanitarian will not allow outhouses if you are near a discharge area (by a major water source). In some areas, a septic system with an electric pump is all that will be allowed. This means you have to worry about backups in case of power outages combined with flooding. Porta-potties are one solution for these emergencies.

              Living on a ridge, with deep wells, in drought years, can mean your well goes dry and needs to be drilled deeper. Hand pumps only lift water 40 feet or so.

              Advice to those wanting rural life styles: lots of older folks are looking to downsize, but the banks are not giving mortgages easily. One solution would be to form a land trust, buy a farm, then do the surveys, put in the new extra utilities and subdivide. Surveys run around $5k. Utilities are by the mile or the foot for electric, measured from the nearest pole/transformer. Septic can run $4k-$6k, if your land passes the perc test. I don’t know the cost of a new home by the square foot, but lumber and everything else is expensive right now. I watched some TV show where someone hired his woods cut, hired a portable sawmill and then went ahead and immediately built his structure. I am sure it warped into a ruin shortly, as lumber needs to dry before use and stacking it for drying, as well as drying it evenly is a craft.

              I don’t advise the communal route. In the end, after most of the folks give up, someone will be left with all the expenses, all the chores and all the taxes, but they will all show up to claim a piece of the sale price. I have watched this happen at several communes from the 1970s. The places that survived were essentially supported by someone working full time in education or medicine or by trust funds.

              If you live near Amish, they usually have produce markets or auctions for bushels of whatever is in season. Even if they don’t, seasonal produce is relatively cheap and it can be easier for someone to buy a bushel or a lug of something to can or dry or freeze. You will see the cost of this either in your utility bill or for extra propane if you can outside. Mass quantities of dehydration in areas too humid for sun drying will also show up on the electric bill. Summer kitchens are nice to have, but I don’t know anyone anymore who cans on a wood cook stove.

              If you want to raise animals, they all produce manure and all manure must be managed. You will want machinery, even horse-drawn machinery, to do this. You will need to store this as it composts or otherwise dispose of it and this is tightly regulated. Your horses will also produce manure, way more than you think and more than you need for the garden. All your animals can become ill, need a vet or, at the very least, need your time and expertise to thrive. They all have lifespans and at some point need to be butchered or put down. These are rarely one-person jobs.

              In short, nothing is easy, nothing is free and the regulations can begin at the township level and go up the administrative line from there. If you try to go around the regs, guaranteed someone will rat you out (fines and penalties) and at the very least, the place will not be able to be resold.

          • A cheaper alternative against deer and rabbits is to use a pump sprayer with this unbelieveable cheap product. I didn’t believe it until I saw my Dad use it one year. Take a gallon milk jug and fill half way with water. Put in one raw egg and shake vigorously until completely dissolved. Finish filling and shake again. Put into pump sprayer and cover plants. Be sure to spray “under” leaves also. The downside is that you have to re-apply after every rainfall. Dad grew and harvested greenbeans for two months using this method. There were fresh deer tracks in the garden every night. After he got about all the beans he wanted he got slack and didn’t spray after it rained, the deer could smell the difference and began eating until they consumed every plant right to the dirt.
            I won’t take a chance because of our dependance on the garden for prepping, so I use fence. About the only thing that works against coons and groundhogs is traps and bullets. Death to all coons and whistle-pigs.

        • Best thing I have found to keep dear out is motion sensor sprinklers…you just have to remember to turn the water off before you go in the garden 🙂

      9. Evening all.

        I have always grown small amounts of food, not enough to sustain us due to space restrictions but enough to gain experience. And to learn what works best for me my area. Three years ago I moved house, nothing would grow to fruition so I resorted to containers until I found the problem.

        It seems thati our cities modern housing, Post 1950, has had the spoil from the houses, bricks, rubble, concrete etc, dumped in the gardens of the houses and buried with a foot of soil. Anything with deep roots, fails, larger plants, such as fruit bushes and small trees keel over.kt is a nightmare. In many cases raising the soil level n the garden is out of the question without building retaining walls etc to keep the soil from the damp proof course of the house. I am not physically capable of doing this and cannot afford a builder, so pots it is.

        This worked well until this year, when along with everyone else my garden has been drown by five weeks of rain,much of it torrential. I dread to think what this will do to prices later in the year.

        Take care

        • Burt, my brother built us 3 planter boxes out of 2×12’s, 10′ long, 6′ wide, as a gift. They were real easy to put together, and we had lots of helping hands. Those went in right away, and it was just a matter of transferring soil from a friend who had some available, and so we have raised beds for part of our growing.

          I hope you could find something similar (especially the helping hands…)

          Take care.

        • Burt;

          Have you ever checked into vertical vegetable gardening?

          This might be something you can put in your back yard or in your home.

          Have a great evening. 🙂

        • Have you considered a lean too type of temp plastic covering to place over your vegys in the future to control rain fall?
          I live in the pacific northwest and I was very fortunate to come across a ‘made for green houses’ plastic this year.
          My son constructed me a 10 x 27 feet green house cover. I say cover, because it is not all seled up yet, but will be this winter. If I had not had my tomatos under there last weekend,I am sure the thunder storm and torrential down pour would have taken off their blossoms.
          For the US, search for northerngreenhouse dot com, they are in Nebraska – for the plastic.
          One woman in florida said Hurricane Andrew blew her green house down but the palstic did not tear!

      10. If it gets so bad that every “city slicker” has a garden, you would have to guard it 24/7.

        If you think your hungry neigbors(not to mention,tweekers, gangs, or the politico) will just sit there and watch you grow, then eat that food, you are dilusional.


        Go out to your front/back yard, plenty of lines of fire you would have to watch.


        No more tomatoes, and no more me you!!!!

        • Kevin, that is definitely a concern; it is something that I have tried to think through in my “wargame” scenarios.

          I have about 500 sq. ft. in the city and an additional 1000 sq. ft. an hour away in the country. Part of my city garden is in the undeveloped alley, while the rest is interspersed with perennials and roses in my back yard. Interestingly, to my knowledge I have never had vegetables stolen from the alley, although I have had kids (I assume) let the water out of my stock tank a couple of times.

          The way I figure it, most sheeple will only be able to recognize the really obvious plants–red tomatoes or corn, for example. The solution to red tomatoes is to eat them while they are still green. For winter, it’s the high-calorie root vegetable that really count–potatoes, carrots, beets, turnips, parsnips–they just look like weeds to the untrained eye, and would blend in perfectly in an urban SHTF situation where your once well-groomed perennial beds become overgrown weed patches, and your lawn is unmown. If it’s bad enough that people would snipe you for your tomatoes, obviously all planting, cultivating, watering and harvesting would need to be done under cover of darkness. If I needed to, I could bring my big hitters inside the fence, while leaving lesser “decoy” veggies (a few tomatoes, bolting lettuce, whatever) outside the fence for pillaging.

          I would actually be a little more concerned about the country garden–it is in an obvious, well-tended square in the middle of a meadow that is flanked on one side with a housing addition, peopled with self-entitled suburban-type sheeple.

          • I’d thought about your post for a minute… hope you don’t mind a couple o’ thoughts:

            * Not sure you’d even be able to get to that 1000 sq. ft garden if things got sour.

            * When I lived in the city, I had firmly planned for and built-up a plan to load up the car with enough stuff to set up some sort of life in an old abandoned country house somewhere (they’re all over the place – you just have to know where to look). Couple of things crimped that plan… one, I realized everyone else would have figured out the same idea, and two, unless my bug-out vehicle was a semi-tractor with a 53′ trailer on its ass-end, there wouldn’t be enough room to carry everything that one would need to thrive long-term. Survive, sure… but not thrive. Second is that any plans that rely on moving you, your family, and your stuff out of town requires clear roads. Given that half the highways around PDX are parking lots during rush hour, that’s definitely a no-go. Long story short, I modified my plans and now live out in the country. Just something to consider.

            * Gardening is fine, but, umm, whatcha gonna eat until they’re ready for harvest, and will it be enough to not only feed you, but provide seed for next year’s plantings?

            I’ll explain that last bit. When I first moved out here, I started and planted a few tomato seeds to experiment with how well things would grow in the local climate, soils, etc. It’s been a few months now, and I haven’t seen a single tomato. Lots of flowers (about 60 of ’em on just three plants!), lots of embryo ‘maters (about 20 – they’re green and the size of 1/2 a BB), but no fruits, and odds are good it’ll be a month or so before I see anything red on them. I’ll likely end up with enough dehydrated tomato slices come September to solve my tomato needs for a month or more, but in the meanwhile, I still need to get my food from the store. Post-collapse, I’ll be eating out of the stores that whole time.

            This got me to thinking about foraging, and other means of getting food in the interim, getting food in ways that everyone else isn’t using – starting with that massive 1/3-acre blackberry monstrosity on the vacant property next door to me (no shit, folks – that thicket covers a solid 1/3 of an acre, and it only takes a couple of 2×6 boards to get me and a bucket to any part of it). I’ll likely be canning and dehydrating/powdering blackberries until I’m numb from it. Not too many calories in a cup of blackberries, but there’s a shitload of Vitamin C, A, Iron, Calcium… and they’re sweet, which is always a bonus.) Now if the owner clears it, no worries – it’ll grow back pretty quickly, and given the shitty real estate market out here, nobody’s gonna pay what that chump is asking for it anyway. Meanwhile, the woods that surround the neighborhood are chock-full of wild edibles, small animals, and plenty of eating opportunities that most city folks won’t go near (…why? Because it’s not a deer, that’s why.)

            All that said, I’m not dissing the garden idea at all. In fact, it got me to planning towards expanding my gardening ambitions as far as the landlord will allow me to (by building raised garden beds and using landscape fabrics).

            BUT… it does underscore the need to have more than one means of getting food on the table. 🙂

            • Not only that–a drought, or rain for 3 weeks non-stop will pretty much stop your gardening efforts..just ask the Tennessee and Kentucky farmers and those in the PNW.
              Stock up on food storage.
              Meal, flour, rice, beans, canned goods, hams, tuna, pasta, beef/chicken bouillon cubes….
              That failed garden with another bad year following will be HELL on earth.

            • I had a similiar problem with tomatoes last year. They were covered with blooms and green tomatoes, but few turned red. Spoke with a garden shop and they suggested fertilizer that is specifically designed to promote fruit production. It seems some soils are missing the magic chemical that tomato plants need.

              We use a lot of canned tomatoes, and want to put up lots in canning jars filled with them this year. I have about 14 tomato plants we started this year and a half dozen more that came up on their own from when I tilled under last year’s plants. For us, it’s financially important we do better in the tomatoe department this year.

            • @JayJay:

              The drought in the PNW depends on which side of the Cascades you’re on. East is gettin’ dry, but West of the range is still pretty damp.

            • with all this said no one has mentioned if your crop is not producing enough there are other ways of getting produce. we have probly about 5 counties that raise produce. we bought enough tomatoes to put up almost 200 quarts of juice and rotel& tomatoes. we canned squash from these places yes it wasnt free but we took money from something else that could wait and invested in food. they have potatoes, onions, okra, berries etc. we spent about 10 cent a lb. on tomatoes,etc. dont tell me it cant be done. you can keep canned veggies & canned meats for a very long time,so when times are lean and garden isint producing good fill in with this method.

            • OQ, bugging out to the lake property is plan C–we have thought through it, and decided that our best position is in town; our house is an old brick farmhouse that is built like a fortress. Our Midwestern city is staunchly conservative, I have numerous family members and connections going back through the generation, and our block is comprised of well-armed Lutherans. The lake garden is mostly for practice–starting a garden on raw ground, trying to spend as little money on it as possible, making do with what we have on hand.

              We also have approx. 6 months worth of food storage, just for our immediate family, so the garden/s and foraging will definitely be an important supplement, but the beans and rice are the heart of the plan.

        • remember waterworld<<< with kevin c

      11. It should be noted the horrible drought conditions, the US govt war on small farmers, and the history of the farm collapse in the great depression. Today there are many parallels. America is not greece (yet) and those who are thinking of relocating to cheap farmland had better have real capital and startup bucks to do this. Borrowing for this aint gonna cut it very soon.

        Before LATOC forums went down there was more than a few selling doomsteads that were purchased with unsustainable bankster credit. You have to have income to pay property taxes to the bankster overlords. If you dont pay, you get your doomstead taken. If you borrow from them they own you. Remember this.

        Small former rust belt cities turned towns that are collapseing now in both economy and population can be great for the back to nature thing if you dont have the capital for a profit producting farm. Urban living with urban transportation options, no commutes, and some part time employment, cheap rents, and underfunded govts locally that have bigger problems than your foraging/ backyard permaculture project/sprouts and kombucha network. huge yards/lots abandoned for potential foraging of food/medicine and often communities of pretty good people who are often more accepting of others than the really out there rural bible belters. Often such collapsed cities dont have much suberbs left. The best never had em. Walk out of limits and be rural in 20 minutes. get friends, start a family, keep a job. Learn a needed powerdown/economic collapse skillset and set up as a hobbiest. Provide for others. Start to influence others towards liberty, self reliance, community gardening, etc.

        We did.
        Flexability and adaptation. Hell is a place with no choices and no moves left on the board.

        • Good advice from one whose tone is vaguely familiar and whose take on life is a beacon of sanity.

      12. FYI people-

        Google video is going bye bye soon.
        Running win 7, no you tube for you soon.

        SOPA by the corp.

        Wake up america.

        • Clarification?

        • That’s right, the Internet is bye-bye for a large group of people who can’t afford the latest computers on Monday.

          This will become more and more common.

          The Dirty Little Secret is, the Internet has been puttering along on equipment bought for Y2K, and that equipment is pretty old now. They can’t afford to update it, but they *can* afford to jettison 30% or so of users who are the poorest.

          • There are sites where the removal tool is free. If all else fails get your CD out and do a total wipe reload of your OS. You may have to say goodbye to unsaved data since it amy be infected but it is pretty simple to do a boot load and go from there.

        • @ Mac

          Maybe Mac can run an article on this., I am not aware of this event.

          Not sure if it fits in with SHTFplan.

          Thanks Kevin @ Domestic Terrorist !!!! 🙂

          • EVERYTHING fits in with shtfplan.

            We are in DEEP $hit.

        • No problemo – just stop by the following website, download the “ISO” legally for $0.00, and burn the .iso file to a CD. They have all the instructions you could ever want to help you along:

          Once you have it burned to a CD, reboot your computer, remembering to boot from that CD. A menu will pop up – you can choose to try the new operating system out, or you can choose to install it. The good news is, it has a feature where it will scavenge the free space off your hard drive and only use that to install on, leaving your data perfectly intact. Or, you can back up your disk in Windows first, then boot off the CD-ROM and you’re good to go again.

          Et voila’ – no more SOPA. 😉

      13. I was 20 years old before I realized not everyone knew had to garden. I just assumed everyone slaughtered hogs in their garage. I thought lawn care services were only for businesses and very old people. Now that I live in town I understand why the loss estimates are so high after a collapse. Most of these people can’t do anything for themselves.

        Before replying that you are the exception, I am speaking generally and from my own limited experience.

        • You’re spot-on pastor. I see these people and what they do and say everyday I go to work. It’s down right pathetic.

        • So true!(I enjoy your imput!) Like yourself I grew up this way and after a short stint in the city returned forever…I do work for a veterns group and others as their “farming expert”(I laugh about this title because after nearly 50 years farming I find I know very little about it) I help write model legislation aimed at liberty issues and farming inparticular as well as teach people about gardening and farming and how to do for themselves(unpaid,but I enjoy it)…its shocking how many people just dont care/have any interest in feeding themselves(the ones who bug me are those who get angry and abusive towards the whole idea that they may benefit from knowing how)anyhow you are correct about how few can do and how many are lost when it comes to anything besides the office and their commute…good luck in your endevors! “Live free or die tryin”

      14. I live in an Urban/Suburban area in the Southeast, can anyone tell me what is an easy vegetable to grow. We have absolutely no experience in farming or gardening and would like to get started. Any advice would be appreciated

        • There is no magic veggies, sorry to say. there are a lot of books that can help you. Bottom line is: get your mind set to fail on you’re first attempt if you’ve never tried it. I’ve been growing a garden since I was eight years old and am now crowdn’ fifty-four. I am still tweeking things. My garden is 150ft by 50 ft. It’s gonna take some trial and error but keep at it. I love my garden and I like working in it. I love the bounty. I love canning, dehydrating and curing. I’ve got five fifty foot rows of red pontiac potatoes. I’ve dug up four plants that were pert near on the ground (done). By the amount that came up on those two plants, I estimate around one hundred pounds to the row. On the flip side, I’ve got to replant tomorrow, squash, zuchini, and lettuce due to the extreme heat and lack of rain. Once the taters are dug up, the kale goes in. On it goes……
          Two important points: compost and irrigation.

        • BTW, Two magazines that are great to have subscriptions to are: “Mother Earth News” and “Backwoods Home”. Mother Earth News can be a little liberal in their views but those old Hippies sure got a lot of practice living in them communes back in the 60’s.

        • US Centurion,

          Tomatoes, green peppers, squash and cucumbers are easy to grow.

          Ask some relatives, neighbors and/or friends who have gardens in your area for suggestions and what varieties of vegetables they grow. I have found that older folks who have raised gardens for many years have a wealth of knowledge they will share, if you ask. My neighbor has been very helpful with gardening tips.

          You might want to get a book about gardening to get started. The library should have gardening books. Planting in wide beds or square foot gardening will give you a greater yield using less space. (less weeds too)

          Good luck! Enjoy!
          KY Mom

          • ky mom , hey neighbor – if you get a minute, swing over to daisy’s blog and drop her a line. been trying to holleratcha.

        • If you go to a big seed and plant web site, like Burpee’s, you can enter your growing zone and see what will work in your area. You are lucky in that you have a long growing period between freezes compared to some of us. Hard to kill green beans, cucumbers, and zucchini. I’ve done it, though.

        • Your area is bug heaven. Good luck. With the heat you have in the Summer go with melons, okra, tomatoes, peppers, squash, green beans and cow peas. In the Fall and Spring do the cool seasons ones. I have only gardened in San Diego which is mostly bug free and there is zero rain in the Summer. Rain at night causes mildew and other problems and bugs will destroy a plant in no time. Despite that you will do fine just plant extra.

        • Green beans, tomatos, cucumbers, squash, canteloupe, peppers, crowder peas, watermelon, potatos, beets, greens, raddish, broccoli, pumpkin, onions, cabbage, lettuce, carrots and eggplant are easy to grow in NC, but its getting late for growing most this year. You can plant a fall garden when this heat begins to break in late August.

          Are you in NC or SC?

      15. Anything you can do will be well worth the effort and time. Raised garden beds can yield a bounty of fruits and vegetables. Rain barrels, for when and if there is any rain. Be sure to keep seeds from anything harvested and even to store bought produce. If you have the land, cattle, pigs,and chickens.
        The unaware do not realize how bad things could get this year with the drought wreaking havoc across 56% of the U.S.! Crops are dying and there is no sign of it coming to an end. This year is much worse than last. With the so called idiots in charge looking to start another war, God knows what else is on the horizon naturally.
        Along with GovernmentGeneralMotors stuffing the shit out of the Chevrolet dealerships all across America. We will all be faced with another we got to bail out the banks, because if you look at the lawsuit just filed against GM, all the dirt bags (Banksters) are the defendants backing GovGM!!!!!
        Pull the blinds over the sheeples eyes, because the screwing of America is going to continue, until the majority says enough is enough.
        Not to mention our wonderful GOv is planning to sign the SAT treaty, slowly tryanny’s black veil of darkness will envelope the land of America.
        Community gardens have been springing up in a lot of areas, which I am thankful that people are seeing the signs of what is coming. IMO, I think hunger is going to be rampant towards the end of the year and into 2013 not just in foreign lands, but right here in the U.S.!
        Remember, get out there and talk with neighbors. This latest blackout across the midwest and east coast has been a wake-up call to more people, that otherwise would still be asleep;)

        B Aware, B Awake, B Alive

        • How long have you done this? I’ve read reports from several people who tried potato towers, but were unsuccessful so have been reluctant to try it.

      16. I love my Square Foot Garden boxes! I’ve also printed an excellent Vegetable Planting Chart for my county.

        If you’re new to gardening, do a search for a chart that makes recommendations for your area. Print it, build a couple of boxes and GET STARTED! You won’t regret it!

        Don’t forget the non-GMO/heirloom seeds! Also try to pick up a book on how to save seeds. I like “Saving Seeds” by Marc Rogers.

        Happy Gardening and yummy survival! 🙂

      17. Damn Strait ! Be surviving now friends! Thank you Dad for being an avid gardener and passing that skill/passion on to me. But of course he grew of age in 1930… guess what was going on in America. I’m on the mountain and all my neighbors are farmers, trading surplus and skills is the way of life. Turn off the computer/TV and get your hands in the dirt – get a copy of Back to Eden and read it. Nothing new here as we see history repeat.

      18. Get out of debt, get out of the city, get out of the system and get off the grid.

        Cashed in 401K took the hit…But now 100% debt free.

        Currently 65 acres, 2 wells, stocked pond (catfish, bass, and bluegill) 10 acres trees, abundant wildlife.
        Irrigation canal through entire property with full rights.
        24 – 130v solar panels (12 per array) mounted on 2 trackers, 2-5,500 watt inverters 50 amps tied into sub panel for critical load. (well pump, freezer, refrigerator, stove, floor heat.)
        20 lithium batteries with 2 – 5,500 watt converters for back up power.
        120 x 80 chief steel building w/220 for welder and compressor.
        2-hay barns, 6 horse cap stables w/tack room, corrals, fenced pastures, garden shed, hired hand quarters & outhouse.
        12 X 16 greenhouse with electric and hand pump well inside.
        2 large propane tanks, diesel and gas barrel.
        45hp diesel tractor w/backhoe & attachments.
        Solar powered golf cart, 4-Chainsaws, 2 tillers, garden tools (5 deep), various hand tools.
        Rope, tarps, water barrels, methane digester, still, 3 big compost piles. (building soil for years).

        1 year, 4 people freeze dried food.
        5 ea.– 5 gal buckets (rice, sugar, powdered milk).
        20 cases mil spec MRE’s.
        2 cases long term canned various spices.
        4 (100 count) case toilet paper, paper goods, solo cups, plastic wear.
        Oil lamps, wicks, fuel, candles, matches, full stocked and rotating pantry.
        Lots of canning supplies (3 pressure cookers, 100’s of jars & lids.)
        5 acres Heirloom seeds, fertilizers, insecticides.

        Rifles: 6-22, 4-243, 2-3006 / Shotguns: 2-12, 4-20, 1-4-10 / handguns: 3-22, 2-9mm, 1-38/357.
        10,000+ rounds, 5,000+ shells
        Game cleaning kits, machetes, knifes, Leatherman multi-tools, hearing protection, eye protection.

        List’s to long to continue…

        We are getting close to the point where we are beginning to feel like we are going to maybe make it to the other side…

        Good luck all!!!

        • My god, that must have been a hell of a 401k.

          • B E
            I had been putting away 15% before taxes with 2% employer match since 1986…

            I took a 152K hit, but I wonder if it would be worth antyhing when tshtf.

            I figuered some now it is better than none later….Some might say “I AM NUTS”, but I sleep way better now than I used to..I will either look like a smart guy, or an idiot….time will tell.

            I may never get to retire, but I would never have been able to live with myself knowing I had money in a fund, but my family was suffering because I held on to conventional wisdom and false hope..

            • I’m actually kind of jealous you were able to pull the trigger. I have not been able to. Can’t do that without quitting job… just can’t swallow the loss. I wish it didn’t have to be such a stark financial loss. I suppose that’s what separates the grownups from the kids.

            • Scooter P,You did the right thing cashing out as all the tax rates go up next year and the AMT will kick in big time as the congress crooks have not extended the income offsets. Problem with deferred comp is you defer taxes at one rate but when time comes to cash out they could be much higher.

        • ScooterP, sounds like you got it going on.
          And honestly, your list of stuff made me jealous. So I decided to take inventory here at the old okie compound. Lets see….we got-

          *10 acres of drought stricken trees that even the termites won’t eat.
          *20 acres of crispy crunchy brown grass that we used to call ‘pasture.’
          *2 low spots in the pasture we use to call ‘ponds’
          *A couple acres of melon patch and a garden that looks like it was last watered in 1973.
          *A chicken coop that’s so dilapidated the chickens moved into town (I think they’re holed up at the Motel 6).
          *30 hp tractor that only starts and runs when it’s raining.
          *Larger tractor that even Oliver Wendell Douglas would be ashamed to use (in fact, I think that’s who we bought it from, come to think of it).
          *Our fuel storage is 3 of those red 5 gal plastic jugs, but only 2 of them have duct tape holding the handles on, so we’re good there.
          *3 cows that got so embarrassed of the place they changed their names and moved to the farm next door.
          *One old hound dog we call ‘Lightning’ He don’t move too fast, but we never know where he came from or where he’s going, hence the name.
          *A fine working still (I hear some people waste those things making fuel, how silly is that?).
          *An odd assortment of guns in even odder calibers. (Anybody know where to get parts for a .286 Winchestington?)
          *A 1981 Ford pickup. The motor leaks from every possible orrifice, the tranny is held in with coat hanger wire, but damned if the stereo don’t sound GREAT when we play Waylon Jennings at high volume.
          *A cranky old geezer with a twisted sense of humor and a never-say-die attitude (that’d be me)
          *A beautiful, intelligent woman who can somehow hold the whole homestead together. Her only flaw is being crazy enough to put up with the old geezer. (don’t anybody tell her how much better she could be doing, thanks)

          Good luck ScooterP. But now that I’ve thought about it…I don’t envy you after all!

          • Never fail to make me laugh Okie.
            I was lucky with my wife too, I couldn’t have done any better and she couldn’t have done any worse.

            • Thanks! Aint it great that the best women settle for guys like us!?

          • S O
            I also have a wonderful gal who is “all in” with me.. she trusts my gut and humors my rants..3 great kids.
            My main goal in life is to make sure I don’t let them down..I carry 1 mil in term life. If I die tomorrow at least they know I put their welfare first pre and post ScooterP.

            • You sound like a you have your priorities straight ScooterP. A good family with good solid relationships is the best of all. 🙂

        • Hey there scooter…great for you… not everyone has half a million layin around. Dick.

          • Inon,
            I have been in straight commissioned sales for over 26 years. If I don’t sell something we don’t eat period….
            Started working a real job, as a dishwaser in resturant at 14 years old (My mom signed a work release) before that, I mowed yards and trapped gophers for .10 cents per gopher after buying all my traps with money I made from mowing.
            Moved out and joined the Army at 17, served in Operation Storm / Operation Freedom served 9 years….
            Got out and busted my butt…
            I go to the office at 5:30am and usaly don’t get home till 6-7pm.
            I am on the road selling 4 days a weeek.

            It’s not like my success just fell from the sky.

            If your jealous it says a lot about you and you lack of self esteem!!!

            I was merly sharing some of the preps me and my wife have made over the last 6 years to ensure a softer fall when TSHTF. Since the article was about acerage, and since I purchased 65 and relocated out of a big city, I decided to share.

            You are a child, and not worthy of additional comment…Good Day!

            • Scooter,
              We need a whole lot more of people like you. Most of the problems we have now would not exist if we did.

        • Scooter,

          No chickens?

          • Currently I have 12 nigerian dwarf goats (1 buck) 35 chickens (2 roosters) in enclosed coop 15 doe rabbits (2 bucks) 19 ducks, 6 turkeys. Looking at purchasing 6 broken mouth cows in the spring.

        • Whomever gave me the red thumb down, can you please tell me why??? did I offend?

          • Probably that most folks posting here don’t have your level of resources, and felt your post was a bit on the boast-full side.

            They feel better now knowing that one thumbs down twisted your pretzel. Need work on that one.

            Deep down, most of us appreciate your list, and welcome you to the site. Its always helps to fill in the blanks. Just not all at one time!

            And can you please post your address, Thanks.
            (and good job)

            • Rick,
              Thanks…I have always resisted posting, as I keep to myself…

              As to my address…Well les say west of the Mississippi and east of the rockies….I think that narros it down!

              I truly wish everyone here the best of luck, and enjoy reading posts from like minded folks..

              Take care!

            • Sorry for misspelling I meant “let’s say” and “Narrows it down”.

          • I’m glad you posted. It has inspired me to look at some rural properties and will run my financials next week when I have some time to look at everything. Your place sounds super. And these posts are a great help to those of us who are not where we should be. Ignore the thumbs down.

      19. Hi there Prep Pastor,

        I confess that I know NOTHING about slaughtering hogs; I’ve also never been hunting… I know, scary stuff, right? Yet I believe that the reason so many will not make it is because they haven’t trained their minds. Case in point: I’ve been examining (and testing) various combinations of plant life that will yield the necessary protein, and of course, being of part Italian descent, I’ve been testing recipes. Some of this stuff I grow, much of it I’ve got stockpiled in cans and hidden in some of the funniest ways imaginable…good luck finding my grub! In any event, there’s more than one way of surviving: you’ll be out in the woods blazing away while geeks like me will be home cooking up beans and such. The reason so many others will starve is that they don’t have either of our skill sets, and even now they openly MOCK the need to learn. Like it would kill ’em to learn some new skills instead of sprawling in front of the idiot box with their thumbs up their bums! I swear, even when things do go down the sewer, they’d still be more pre-occupied over not knowing what happened on “Jersey Shore” than they would be at the task of finding food

        Like someone else said here “you can’t fix stupid”

        • I know it aint much but 3 ounces of raw dandelion root is enough protien to sustain life in times of famine.
          Does anyone live where these don’t grow?

      20. I have been gardening for about 5 years now, branching into learning how to grow veggies in a greenhouse over the winter, and I feel like I am still learning and it can be a steep curve!

        Gardening is a daily, or twice daily, enterprise. There is always some weeding, planting, harvesting, fertilizing, processing, compost pile turning, spraying, etc, etc, to do. Above all it takes time and patience.

        So if you think post-collapse you are going to just stick some seeds in the ground and eat like a king, I’ve got bad news for you.

        It is never to late to start, however, so given the disasterous economic news today, I would get cracking, if I was you.

        • Wise words, Hope@ZeroKelvin. It ain’t too late to hone your skills.

      21. Oh, and OPSEC is key. It is astonishing how little city people know about where their food comes from.

      22. You people are so sad.
        You lost your republic, you lost your country, you lost your way of life and now discuss how to run away from those who took it away.
        You can’t.
        You will be hunted down until you are no more.
        Your leaders aren’t just interested in changing this country, they want you, your religion, your system of beliefs and you gone forever.
        Run, run until you are cornered at your own Thermopylae.
        Have courage to admit that the American way, the conservatism is no more. It’s over.

        • Gosh Larry, you seem a bit down today. I’m a little rusty on my ancient Greek history. Maybe you can help me out. Wasn’t Thermopylae that battle where the Spartans DIDN’T run? Your real name wouldn’t be Ephialtes, would it?

          • Okie,
            You seem to have a problem with how things really are. Unless things change and change soon this great country of ours will just slide away with not a peep from anyone. California is now in the process of giving itself back to Mexico. Obama has stepped all over the Constitution and the Congress with not so much as a push back and if you think he is ruthless now wait and see if he is re elected how bad things will get. Time to take off the rose colored glasses.

            • John W, actually I’m in agreement with you. And for that matter, with Larry Petersen, as far as the country getting further down the drain every day. Guess his comment just seemed sort of defeatist. That, and I had the sarcasm meter cranked up way too high. ooops
              My older posts testify to my love of this once-great country. And that I haven’t given up on it. I usually just stick to nonsense comments here at shtfplan though. Humor is my way of coping.

        • Larry, I’d be interested in what your suggestion would be. Voting doesn’t do much good, given the choices. Writing and calling my representatives only got me form letters and appeals for political donations. It seems to me that this political/economic system is going to collapse from its own size, inefficiency, and blatant corruption without any help from us. The govt. will be too busy dealing with crisis upon crisis to worry about hunting down some schmucks who are gardening and chasing game in the woods.

          My family is what is important, and like many on here I have gone through great expense and effort to ensure they are in the best position possible. Not perfect, but much better than we were five years ago. It would have been much easier to simply stay in the city and worry.

          The system will suffer a reset of some sort. Since the current political dynamic cannot go on forever, it won’t. I want my family to come out on the other end of that process. Any suggestions that would help in that process would be appreciated.

        • Over?!…are you kidding..we havnt even got started…lost?…in a squealin little piggys eye…these bassturds think theyve won,but they dont think too clearly cause they aint used to it,nawww we got em right where we want em!…you need to chill and relax,it aint all bad and its fixin to get better(after it gets worse maybe) but bad cant last forever and freemen cant be kept down forever…sorry but I aint buying any “losing” today,or anyday…have a great day!

          • Interesting times.
            The things we use,consume, wear, etc, are being manufactured using automation. It’s how our productivity is some of the highest in the world. It’s the only way we can compete with cheap labor in foriegn lands.
            I think technology is outpacing our ability to adjust.
            A local community college recentley graduated 55 nursing students. After 5 weeks, 2 have been employed.
            Where will the tradesmen/women come from when we do bounce back? The current crop are being thinned, and these skills, best learned by mentoring, will be lost.
            I once ran an auto repair shop, and skilled techs were impossible to find. Kids don’t want to get their hands dirty. Additionaly, it is a very technically demanding skill. And with cars being built better, the repair paradigm has changed completley.
            Add to all of this, welfare and unemployment make entry level jobs, when available, unappealing.
            Sorry to go off topic, but how do we get out of this?
            Our government doesn’t have a plan, other than to throw borrowed monopoly money at the situation.
            I think a study of the transition to the industrial revolution might help. The same challeges were probably encountered. Thoughts?

            • Man there seems to be no easy answers,no majic wand,no great leader to blaze the trail back to liberty and prosperity…in my own life Ive had to rely on me and the good Lord,jobs have been few and no to good when they did come along,I found out when I was a kid that the system wasnt dependable and neither were most people,you take undependable people and govt/corps and throw in some greed and powertripping and we ended up here,back when it mattered folks wouldnt spend an extra dime to support their fellow Americans,didnt kick the fed gov in the face and then in the backside and see to it that things stayed right,instead the majority had other prioritys and went that way….I guess the only answer I have is the same one as always…we each have to start in our own lives where we are at the moment and build out from there,easy?…no,but we cant change a thing out there unless/until we fix our own.what we are able to fix anyhow….do what you can where you are and perhaps if enough of us fix ourselves America will get fixed too,if not then theres a long dark time ahead and while Im a realist I also tend to hold out6 hope for this once great nation and the future of freedom,other than that my friend I dont know the answer to this mess,take care of yourself!…”Live free or or die tryin”

        • Er, Iowa, I think that you are confusing Iowa with Minnesota. You know the state which is above Iowa, (In sooo many ways) kidding

        • Larry,

          You won’t find to many “Bravehearts Here”. This is a libertardian dominated site. We worship, Ayn Rand, Ron Paul and Jesus here.

          Really the name should be changes from SHTF Plan to “Keyboard Cowards”……here comes the red thumbs!

          • Sir you use the handle Saigon Knights, if you ever were in Saigon let alone stationed there. For me thats means you were a REMF, I for one had a price on my head, because I was one of the PAINTED FACES. Use to LuRRP around in INDIAN COUNTRY for KICKS.
            BRAVE AND PROUD OF IT!
            copperhead out

          • As I recall, wasn’t Braveheart drawn and quartered? I prefer to be a winner that lives to raise his children than a martyr with a statue in my honor. I do not recall how Sun Tsu put it, but it is better to fight and run away and live to fight another day. Frankly, I’m thankful for people like you who will be fodders for the cannons of TPTB while the resistance is preparing and waiting for the right time to attack.

            Maybe we will erect a statue in your honor when we win. Too bad you’ll never live to see it.

      23. Michelle..i to was single and was a mother to child for years..( finally found a good man an married him) .you can go it .start small..i had nothing..i learned alot from this site..i will never have all that alot have here, but my family is way better off than what we were..I know have fruit.trees , berries and a garden that took two years to work ( black gumbo) horrible stuff but i kept with it..first time i know have some corn and thinking my fall garden will do more( hoping)..and i finally got grapes this year..Plus i learned to can..hard work but fun..My mum from germany says watching me reminds her of what they did after the war.They canned and bartered .They lived in the country, people from the city would come to the country and the would gets eggs and canned food from her mum and in returned her mum got linens and such..everyone had to start over everything had been bombed…I to now have chickens now, my mom said thatalso had goose hang in there Michelle it will come toeghther..

      24. We did a LOT of seed saving on a veg patch we gave up this year, so we’ll be good to go in the new location, where it’ll take us time to locate all the best wild food options for foraging.

        On the upside things are slowly sliding into place for us and this dehydration malarkey is proving much more successful than my apple cider vinegar attempts. Using surplus produce from friends in return for various odds n sods.

        OPSEC for me is a real issue right now, too many official visitors in relation to my son at the moment. Thankfully my Mum is allowing me to store some stuff at hers.

        Flooding has been a real issue in parts of the UK recently, including one little town Todmorden that I’d previously thought was pretty well set up for shtf due to their fanastic community food growing iniatives. A real reminder that in the last instance our minds are all we really have to rely on as the most well-provisioned home can vanish overnight if Ma Nature wills it.

      25. Plant heirloom seeds only if you can that way you can save the seeds for next years crop. Remember if they are not heirloom they may not produce anything the next year. It’s a lot of work to grow enough food for a family, you just don’t plant and forget. The basic’s onion’s and potato’s you can grow just about anywhere. Save your seeds for your potato’s for starts next year. They are little balls on some of the plants, cut them open and there are the seeds to save, and save them as you would tomato seeds. just research on the net to learn how to save seeds

        • copperhead,
          What you posted is only pertly true.If you plant two or more heirloom varities in close proximity or there is another plant type in the area the seed from the resulting fruit will no longer be a true heirloom as it will have crossed with the other varities. Get over the heirloom crap. Hybrids are much more vigorous and produce more. You will be surprised with some of the great hybrids you will get the next year. Stop confusing hybrid with GMO. Not the same thing.

          • Sorry John but what you posted is only partially true….been at this a long long time and seldom have I found a hybrid anything that produced more/superior/tastier fruit. Heirloom tomatoes seldom and with great difficulty ever cross…you gotta make them do so and it involves you taking direct action,not saying they never do but I plant half a dozen different varieties of tomatoes side by side 2 feet apart and in 40 years I know of none that crossed,some things like squash will do so much easier but even there Ive only seen it one time.Another point which copperhead made is that the seed of heirlooms breed back true year after year this wont happen with hybrid seeds…you may get something but it wont be the same thing and may not even amount to anything usefull,I believe thats the point he was making and he is correct.

            • @REB: Big Thank you REB and that was what I was meaning.

            • I have had Beef Steak. early Girl crosses which bear smaller beefsteaks in clusters. that’s what I mean. I have planted heirloom Beefsteaks and had some with no flavor. Plants like people have some variation. What I posted about all heirlooms planted near other type heirlooms will most likely result in a hybrid is true.

            • Also I know that the variety will only be true for one generation. That’s why it is good to save some seeds. Generally I only plant certified seed. My point was the big scare about hybrids is silly. They are not GMO. I would never save seed from two different types of curcubits. Who want’s a cucumber melon?

      26. It feels good living in a land that has the most fertile soil in the world. I was raised a city boy and when we went out to my grandfather’s farm my grandpa would always be watching Hee-Haw, All in the family, and Sanford and Son. I miss those days.

        I never thought I’d ever plan on becoming a farmer like him. I guess I’m going back to my Roots.

      27. Greetings Everyone!
        And I’m not first!
        A quick question to everyone here.
        I have a fairly good size lot to grow veggies.Bought three berry plants,the ones from Aldi never grew,the one I got for $.59 at hw store last fall is trying to grow and produce fruit.
        could anyone suggest some books on the subject?
        I’m a bit older now,and may have to get some other folks put in a raised bed garden(tried doing it w/o,a abysmal failure for me,buffet for the locust!),soil types for the HOT midsouth, etc…And have injuries that limit the sweat “equity” I can do.
        Enjoyed everyone’s comments.Makes coming back more than worth it.
        Best to All,
        Hope everyone can keep reasonably cool and fed.

      28. Your not really a gardener until you find yourself picking tobocco worms off of leaves, wearing a mosquito net, at midnight.
        Can you grow ketchup? Why, yes you can. Tomatoes, onions, garlic, apples for vinegar, sugar beets for syrup, and SALT. Buy salt! (cane sugar and grapes in warmer climes) And it tastes just like what we were used to. Very comforting. Mustard and relish are easier.
        Learn to make the foods you prefer, from scratch, with minimal bought ingredients. You will Then know what to stock up on, and what to grow. And what equipment you will need. Almost all small kitchen appliances can be found hand cranked.

        As a chef, I am well aware most people do not know how to cook, certainly not from scratch at all, let alone well.

        My advice…baking soda and salt…..lots of salt. Used in cooking, preserving, pickling, tanning, laundry, cleaning, Ice cream, livestock feed, medical care, dental care, etc. Buy more salt. Buy a lot. Buy different kinds of salt. Keep it dry.

      29. Tear down the abandoned homes of the suburbs first before coming out here to the country. Because I don’t want you here. All you do is recreate the city/suburbs and destroy wildlife and natural areas, pollute the streams and air, and congest the streets. We already have enough losers in giant homes surrounded by green deserts and dog $hit who fled the city in order to have bugger lawns and bigger piles.

        • The winters are cold, but the country is moving back to Detroit. Too bad most of the current residents are too gubment dependant to use it. Their replacements will be able, and will pick it up cheap.

      30. Did this 17+ years ago. Have 2 1/2 acres, small fruit orchard, nice PRODUCING garden fertilized from a double composter that kitchen scraps and bedding and manure from the chickens go into. Have goats (weed control and training). Put-up 7 quarts of ham and bean soup today. Beets and zucchini next week. Has taken some time to get to this point, but I’m proud of all my wife and I have accomplished.
        I would suggest that if you’re so inclined, NOW is the time to start…..

      31. talk and wrote about this twenty five years ago and got laughed at

        guess whom is laughing now

        and those still not prepping or changing their lives

        invest in personal body bags please

      32. The United States is parched, with more than half of the lower 48 states experiencing moderate to extreme drought, according to a report released today (July 5). … 24965.html
        Just under 56 percent of the contiguous United States is in drought conditions, the most extensive area in the 12-year history of the U.S. Drought Monitor. The previous drought records occurred on Aug. 26, 2003, when 54.79 percent of the lower 48 were in drought and on Sept 10, 2002, when drought extended across 54.63 percent of this area.

        • I live in Northeast Tennessee. It has been dry here the past month but we are getting rain once again. We have had over 3 inches here in the past week and more on the way next week. Hopefully, the drought might be loosening it grips on my part of the country.

      33. Mac and Brothers,

        I could just come in here and learn everything I know from all of you and you’d never know me. I’m here because this is the best support group people like me could find in this day.

        I want to share with you what I learned from the WORD.

        I ask my daughter every day who’s my little Princess?!!!

        and she replies “I Am”!

        And I say who Is the other little Princes and Princesses? And She rattles off their Names. And I ask Her who Is the Queen and She says “Mommy”! And I ask Her who Is the King? And She says “Your Are Daddy”!

        Almost the proudest day in my life! Besides…

        “And Who is the KING of Kings!

        and My Princess replied “Jesus”!!!!!!!!!

        My cup runneth over.

        Brothers, only US Kings and Queens Declare Our Rights and Our Laws. It is a Natural Born Right.

        You Are Good People. Thank You Family.

        • Out of the mouth of babes, u-r blessed indeed

      34. Just recently bought a house. Still moving in. Fortunately, the previous owners planted several apple trees, grape vines,black berries, and papaw trees. I have even found some mulberry and walnut trees on the wooded lot beside of me. There is also several pine trees and other useless plants that will soon be removed for other fruit and nut trees. If you can’t eat something from it, or use it to shade your house in the summer, what good is it? I do not understand when people tell me that they do not have time for a garden but the keep a perfect looking yard and flowers beds. My wife is even getting on board digging up a large flower bed to plant a garden. She loves to dehydrate and can extra stuff that comes from our other family members gardens. However, she thinks I am over doing it with the number of trees I am planning on buying but more the merrier I say.
        Does anybody here know a good online site or seed catalouge for fruit trees. Also, I was looking at buying some jujube trees. Is anyone familiar with them?

        • Pruning is a fruit tree or grape vines best friend. Learn how to do it. Peaches and nectarines especially need pruning as they only bear on new wood where the spurs are only good for one yaer. Prune for shape and strength. Also a good idea to plant flowers in with the veggies to attract bees and repel pests. I would keep som of those pines that are not in the way. Firewood on the hoof so to speak.

      35. Plants that grow like weeds (in my experience)
        blackberries in coastal Oregon
        asparagus in West Texas
        cilantro in West Virginia (deer won’t eat this)

        The soil mixture I use is: peat moss (not too much),compost or horse manure, pearlite and charcoal.

        • Joe, you can add cukes and green beans in Minnesota.

      36. “A very great vision is needed and the man who has it must follow it as the eagle seeks the deepest blue of the sky”
        – Sioux

        Unfortunately, many people do not have the will, the vision, or the want to change their lives. Even if they knew what was coming, they would hold their nose up to even the thought of working in dirt and around farm animals. Much of the young generation has no interest in living at the outskirts of city life. People have not had to be tough and in survival mode for a very long time in this country. A husband may think a move to the country would be beneficial to his Family and their livelihood but may encounter much disagreement from his Family. If all are not on board then it probably will not happen. This is a soft headed society and the thought that most would revert to the ways of their ancestors, is probably unrealistic. The ones who do have the vision and act upon it, are the ones who will have a better chance of living and thriving. I never understood why everyone did not want to get their hands in the dirt, even as a child I loved the earth, the smell of a clean barn, shiny freshly picked vegetables and washing off the eggs that the proud chickens gave us everyday. To me this is heaven.

        If you lost everything tomorrow, what would you do? Would you just sit down and die? No, of course you would restart your life and follow a path that you will make. Your vision can be your reality if you truly want it. If you see it, believe it and are willing to work for it, you can make it happen. When you open your mind, doors open that you never knew existed before.

      37. The big trend among the SHTF crowd, of whom I am a member, is GROW YOUR OWN. I have to say, I think most people preaching this don’t grow much. I have spent many years developing my large property (massive by local standards, I have nearly 10 acres in an area where most have 6000 sq ft lots). The first problem is weather, we’ve had 3 consistent miserable growing seasons. Luckily we’ve spent a lot of time learning how to raise animals, and the weather effects them less. We raise beef and poultry.

        I’ve tried with my son to develop a little local business where we sell to neighbors and people in the community. Maybe we have not tried hard enough but the people around us refuse to support the local farm!! We need people to buy the stuff we grow, but unless we are within a nickel of the F’ing chain store price these people basically tell my son to piss off. It’s very revealing, and disheartening. We can go knock on doors and ask to raise money for the local hockey team and people open up their pocketbooks and donate $50. Try to sell a dozen eggs for $0.10 higher than the local mega store and they basically slam the door in the face of this good kid who spent years working to develop his chicken coops, alfalfa storage, etc.

        Without some local market outlet we are not going to keep raising a lot of food. It’s easy to say raise your own, but it doesn’t work that way. You have to raise a lot of certain things, sell those things then use the money to buy other stuff you need.

        I know a produce wholesaler that can sell me a 50 lb sack of potatoes for $8.

        • I can attest to this being true here too…Ive quit trying to raise for market and just supply myself/family…it got too disheartening to have good food compared to walmarts imitation of food and folks demanding a discount,I hope your case ends better,but thats where I am…”Live free or die tryin”

        • I agree Ranch. By the time you drive to the local farmers market,pay a small fee to set up and have people try to “jew” you down on your prices, you wind up going in the hole. Most people don’t have a clue what it takes to get a healthy crop to market. I pay more, per lb., for local produce just to help keep money flowing in a community locale. Most don’t see it that way. We give our excess vegetables to neighbors/friends/relatives. At least,this way we can feel good about helping others, without going in the hole trying to sell to people with no consideration for someone’s hard work.

        • I wish I was your neighbour, Ranch. I ONLY buy from local farmers. If they aren’t selling it, or I haven’t grown it in my garden, we don’t eat it. We are far healthier since we have begun eating locally grown, in-season produce. The quality of the meat and vegetables we get is about a 1000 times higher than that which you get in the grocery store.

          Because I go see the same two farmers every week and buy in bulk whatever is in, they give me a little bit better price and we have built a business relationship. They told me the same thing that you are saying, so this is what they did.

          They began to market a little bit differently. There are a lot of yuppies around here that will gladly pay extra is something is “gourmet”. So the market here touts there “grass-fed beef” and their “locally sourced heritage asparagus” and people pay twice the price. They make things look a little glossier and fancier, like tying the asparagus bundles with twine. It seems ridiculous but it works for them.

          Best of luck to you. And thank you for providing food – it is a very honorable livelihood.

        • Ranch,

          That is sad to hear that your community does not appreciate or support their local farmers. Our community has a local “farmer’s market” 2 days every week from July to October. It is very popular. The produce is fresh and delicious.

          Are there a few other farmers that might like to start one of these? Speak with some of your local leaders and suggest having a farmers market, maybe start having them Saturday mornings.

          Take care.
          KY Mom

          • Hi. We have a Saturday market here. We have not tried selling there, I have been there many times. I’m not sure if it is necessary to pay for a table at that market but it looks like all spots are taken. Most of the business is going to vendors who sell prepared pancakes, sandwiches, ice cream, etc. Kind of a summer carnival. If I sell my local eggs there, will I have some bureaucrat show up and demand papers? I should not discount the viability of this as a way to market our products, however I want to say something more on this topic.

            We are raising a lot of eggs every DAY not just Saturday. We spend about $800 per ton for organic feed. It takes a good 1 hour per day to take care of the chickens, fetch the eggs, give them water, etc. This is a small time operation, just 40 hens. Right now they are putting up 3-4 dozen eggs per day. We are asking $4 per dozen, so $15 per day in sales, not to mention the time cost and cost of feed. The nerve of the neighbors to nickel and dime when the local organic store is $4. If any kid came to my door and had something he made himself and wanted $4 I’d pay it instantly! What happened to supporting enterprising kids? These are people living in very nice homes! If we have SHTF they are not getting a single egg at ANY price I am stubborn like that.

            We have dealt with the whole “organic food lover crowd” when we have sold our beef, we raise excellent grass fed beef. They too are nickel-and-dimers, picky and have attitude I don’t care for. Sometimes we get a genuine person who pays our asking price (which is a good deal) and that pays for the butcher fee for our half of the cow.

            Frankly I don’t want to spend all week gathering up 10 dozen eggs then go deal with the freakshow organic people at the Saturday market so we can bring in $40. No, screw it. I don’t want to boast but I am a professional and making $500 fiat per day in my regular job, the last thing I am going to do is spend a Saturday sitting at a market to make $40.

            There are some European immigrants in our neighborhood who bought his eggs instantly without even asking the price. So what we have been doing is giving them three dozen for the price of two, because we have a lot. Then I give away the eggs to my mom, and some others. I figure if I can’t get a fair price I will give the eggs away. We eat a lot ourselves and the learning experience of raising the food is enough.

            The neighborhood loses. You can blame me for a bad attitude but I will say that we had initially setup an infrastructure to raise 12-15 dozen eggs per day. Now that we are not getting support for our 3-4 dozen per day, we will keep the farm as-is and not expand the chicken part of our enterprise. I do have some other ideas though, for marketing, so we may still expand. I just wanted to vent a bit here and share my experience of becoming a local food provider. The sheeple are very unsupportive.

            • Ranch, I work in marketing in financial services, and no matter what product you are selling, you get a lot of doors slammed in your face. The key is persistency, as you know. You may have already done this, but several things that you might try to do are 1) a very attractive chicken-shaped sign offering eggs by the road, possibly labelled as “college-fund eggs”; 2) if he knocks on doors, make sure he leaves a flier/newsletter in the homeowner’s hands detailing the effort he has put into the operation and the benfits of local, organic eggs (from flavor to the fact that you know the chickens aren’t being tortured), 3) have him draw up a list of the objections he gets, and put together a good response to each objection; and then PRACTICE his presentation/response with him, and 4) consider offering a 2-egg challenge–you will give them 2 eggs if they promise to try them side by side with their store-bought eggs. (If you give them something for free, it creates a sense of reciprocity). He might also want to explore developing a relationship with some of the fancy non-chain restaurants. Contact them and see if they would like a free sample of 2 dozen or so. Yeah, the neighbors sound like a bunch of jackwads, but perhaps they just need some education, and this adversity is not necessarily a bad thing for a boy to face…as long as he doesn’t give up.

      38. Took a few days in the finger lakes. The corn looks like yuka plants or the stuff they grow for tekela. Need rain very badly.

        My Theory…..
        Govt. use of Chemtrails to stop the rain. This will cause a crop failure. Or…only corn that will grow is the Monsanto stuff that can grow in dry soil with aluminum falling on it. Spike up the food costs… bankrupt America more. Then, hyperinflation time….
        This will let the banksters bring in the one world electronic currency and the transactional taxes.


        • Im going to the finger lakes in August on vacation. My brother-in-law has a house in Hammondsport near kueka lake. It is one of my favorite places to visit. I know this is off the subject, but any place up there you recodmend.

        • Illinois’s corn crops are in serious trouble. I said yesterday ‘if these droughts are caused by chemtrail spraying…so help me God..’ So, yea, I had the same thought. Corn based products make up to 75% of the products you buy-and wth is the idea of using corn for bio-fuel-almost 2 out of 4 bushels? <is this correct?

        • Severe floods.severe droughts are all taking their toll worldwide and the oncoming repercussions will be devastating.
          Commodities are suffering now and the losses of basic grains will be hitting the markets soon.

          The romanticizing of farming is is hard work and risky due to many obstacles including chemtrail elements(aluminum) affecting root production and geo engineering affecting rainfall etc..

          Never mind pests of all sorts who are now resistant to all types of pesticides ..thank you Monsanto etal..
          Even organic based pesticides are becoming futile.

          Basic rice has jumped significantly over the last month due to worldwide crop failures.

          Everyone needs to have the basic foodstuffs to survive.period
          Beans rice proteins canned fish and chicken..

          and lots of herbs and spices /condiments to improve tastes.

          and stock up on purified water..

 the local gunshop..the owner told me yesterday that everything ,especially ammo, is getting difficult to procure on a regular basis..

          stock up while you can!


          • @possee

            We picked up 1,000 rds of .223 yesterday, but it took a whole lot of calling around to find some.

            • .223 is expensive..just what did the 1k rounds cost you?

              I don’t use but my son has the S&W 223 AR.

              50 rnds of 40 cal are running about $18 statewide

              550 22 lr are still at 20 per brick(blazer)


        • Well, that was my theory too..but if it requires concurring or consecutive sprays, they’re spraying at night; no signs of planes here in many weeks.
          Not saying previous sprays didn’t cause this lack of rain..I’m not smart in the chemical/environment I’m arena.

      39. Living next to a forest preserve is great, but the deer, skunks and ‘coons are a problem for someone who lives on co-operative property. I still have a yard and a small garden but we aren’t allowed any type of fence. I do have tomatoes,perennial herbs and lavender and a great farmer’s market. It’s post war housing and we’re like sardines here with no privacy, but it’s been home for 30 yrs and there is always the BOL.

        BTW-marigolds are edible,so are pansies,roses,rose hips,fiddleheads(unfurled ferns)and violets and probably more.

      40. I’ve turned my entire front yard (about 2/3 acre) into a garden of non-hybrid heirloom seeds. Killed the grass last fall. Doing well for a “first try.” Use grass from neighbors yards, cut for free and leaves for compost. Steep learning curve.

        I’ve been harassed by the “authorities,” but with a little research I found a law (in Georgia) that prohibits local governments from enacting ordinances restricting agricultural production. I was cited and summoned, went to court, had the cite tossed, and the ordinance lifted (nullified) in the county superior court. (#winning !)

        Already getting beans and tomatoes, the corn is doing well, should have tons of pumpkins, peppers are coming along, canning pickles already, the rest is still growing kinda good. As I wrote, STEEP learning curve for a city boy. LOTS of flowers too.

        Luckily there is a decent creek behind me, reasonably clean, I pump water from there. It’s been very hot. All time record set on July 3, 106 degrees. I don’t mind the sweat. Up early, a nap, then work from 4 to dark. If I can do it, most anyone can. I rode a desk for better than 20 years.

        Chickens in the back yard next year, that will be some work as I have 4 big dogs…. Cops won’t bother me now!

        I’ve lost about 35 pounds as a bonus.

      41. Everyone needs to read Possum Living by Dolly Freed. Living on practically nothing, raising rabbits for meat, a small garden, and a few chickens for eggs, among other common sense basic survival tips and common sense. You dont need much land or equipment to survive. This book will give you a common sense and comical approach to survival with nothing.

      42. If you are still in a big city when they are shooting the animals in the zoo for food – you have stayed too long.

      43. A side note that is now a reality. With the high temperatures in the midwest of USA, the “bread basket” of the world, is now drought striken. One farmer said that he was almost at the point of “no return” with his crop. He said if he was lucky he would only loose about 40% of his crop but that would mean a loss for the year. If this rings true across the board and all corn crops are down by 40%, the economist/commodity experts are saying that we will see a 25% increase in 70% of groceries due to the connection to corn and it’s syrup. Better get crackin’ at growing some late garden stuff. Get those little plants humpin’ with collected rainwater(it contains high contents of nitrogen) mixed with miracle grow. If you are on municple(treated) water,
        let it set out for a few days for some of the chlorine to evaporate off before using on plants. Good luck!

        • that water also contains chemtrails..chemicles, aluminum and I fear that is a lot of the problem…that and the damn Roundup that has been proven to delete the soil of all nutrients necessary to grow food when sprayed consecutively.
          I wondered why my grass never regrew when sprayed…now, I know.

      44. My Mom and Dad were “Depression Childern”. One of their favorite sayings was, “If get hungry enough, you’ll eat anything”.

        I wonder what our childern will be telling theirs? “If you get hungry enough, you’ll eat anybody?”!

      45. Hey Off Topic: Big O’s Civilian National Security Force!
        I think we know they with be pack’n .40 s&w handguns and carring 5.56/223 rifles, thats what the ABC’s are buying up in ammo. Who will man this bunch how about, the young illegals he just let stay in the country and a few other’s. I feel this is who we will have to deal with in the very and I mean very near future. I also believe that chemtrails are the cause of this weather we are having. STOCK UP NOW if not for nothing else but to beat the cost latter on, of the food. Ammo is drying up fast, you know what to do. But thats just me think’n
        Live Free and Stand all and in their faces.

        • Nothing puts a grid in the sky like chemtrail spraying.
          Did you say something about Rt1 and earthquake rods??
          After your post I drove a 30 mile stretch and didn’t see anything irregular, but then-in Cook Co everything is irregular.

          • @lil bit: This was down south, below I-70 for sure. The rods are at ground level and a small concrete pad around them, all of them that I knew about were on the west side of the highway. At 1mi apart. Hard to see them, unless the surevy flags are still there.

            • Thanks-That’s interesting-I just read info on the Madrid fault and they’re watching that area closely.

      46. ive been reading this site for a while now, and i enjoy the ideas that all of you share, its opened my eyes alot more than before, ive read all the comments on this page and i have to say, scooterP’s comments on all his ressources, prepared, even if an event doesnt happen, doesnt make you crazy, but independant from the gouvernment, so… just being independant makes a big difference.

        another comment that got my attention was the one who’s son was trying to sell his produce wich was homegrown and people slamming their doors at his face, i support my local farmers, some who’s kids i went to school with, why wouldnt i buy fresh produce from them, but again, independant from the gouvernment, they hate it, but we love it,

        like i said, ive been reading alot on SHTF for a while, and noticed that the gov is easy to defeat, it only takes alot people to come toguether, if its gonna all for one and one for all, forget about it, you lost, but if we stand together, nothing will stop the people, i always say rome did fall and the people still got thru it

      47. I blog about a lot of homesteading and practial prepper things…. I am a big believer in intensive gardenging on a small scale. Have a few 4 X 6 raised beds. Lots of pots on a self watering reservoir system and perennial berries, fruit trees and of course (for those who follow me) my apple orchard. Anyone can grow on a patio… I am currently all about the raingutter system with 5 gallon pails it is even easier than raised beds… (google it)… mine is fed from a hose in from the creek to a small holding barrel, then float metered into the gutters, if we hav overflow (never) it goes out through a drain to the berries…But most of it goes up the sock wickes into the 5 gallons…They guy who figured this out IS a genius… cuz it works.. ! Stop by if you want more tips…

        • Cool!

      48. It’s worth it to have a garden even if you don’t prep or harbor conspircy theories, it’s just good exercise and fun. You get a lot of true satisfaction out of a garden, something a ball game on TV or a sixpack will never get you.

      49. I heard somewhere that corn yields in the Midwest will be 48 percent of normal this year, because of the heat wave and drought. That’s not good.

        Not only will your corn on the cob rise in price, but just about everything else that is a corn by-product.

        What do hogs, chickens and cattle eat? Corn. (Cattle are naturally supposed to eat grass, but that’s another story.)

        And until some brainy scientist comes up with high fructose wheat syrup, your soft drinks, ketchup, etc. etc. are also going up. Bad news for your wallet, but good news for your health.

        If ethanol is added to your gasoline, the price of gas may rise as well.

        You have been warned…

      50. When millions lose their jobs and have no hope of finding gainful employment, what options do they have for keeping food on the table?

        They call their pal Obama. Really folks, lets be honest. The gobberment is always going to be their to give all those entitled ass munch non-working freeloader F$%^’s a free ride. And the sucky part is….. YOUR GOING TO PAY FOR IT!

      51. I visited with a friend and his wife last night. He had called me a few years back and sounded an alarm that we should prepare. After researching, my wife and I decided it would be worth doing. We cashed in CD’s and 401k’s and went to work. Drilled a well, great water now! We expanded our small garden 20×20 to a large 3 garden complex covering about an acre with plans for another expansion. We built a large chicken run and coop and have about 65 hens now. If electricity stays on we are set, if not, we have a 20 kw generator with a 6.5 kw back up. Bought a tractor and implements, stocked up on heritage seeds and we save seed. Bought assault firearms and a ton of ammo. Networked with neighbors to control access to our places. We have a one way in/out road. We can, dehydrate and freeze food. We store dry goods well and have an abundance. We have bees now and the equipment to rob them. I am retired Infantry and have some skills there. I am also retired medical with some more skills…. We have some PM’s hidden, both bullion and junk silver. A large dog keeps deer out of the garden but let’s them roam the pasture with the 2 horses. Horses are being trained to draught. We also have a hand pump for the well as well as solar backup…. Many other projects completed and unable to list do to space. Now, here’s the good part. The friend I mentioned, we visited. Here’s the conversation quickly. Me asking questions. Do you have a garden? No. Do you have seeds? Some. Weapons? Oh yes! Lots! Chickens? No (he lives in the country on acreage). Generator? No. Communications? No. Networked with neighbors? Don’t know them…. On and on. I thank him for the heads up but really? BTW, he runs a prepper site….

        • Wow! One of the things I like about this site is that many people are willing to demonstrate that they “practice what they preach”. He is obviously not one of them.

      52. Just got the new Williams-Sonoma catalogue. W-S is now taking advantage of this trend, as they have introduced their “Agrarian” line of goods. In the catalogue, they actually offer chicken coops, garden essentials, composting bins, and canning supplies. Pretty amazing markups on most of the stuff, but the point is clear–even the well-to-do are starting to “get it.”

      53. We have been living off the grid and in the wilderness for the last 7 years.

        Regardless of what happens in the world I would still choose to live off the grid and in the wilderness.

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