Fed Report: 100% Chance of Recession

by | Nov 7, 2012 | Headline News | 219 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Now that the election is over, the propaganda media can back off the burying of those critical stories that they couldn’t be bothered to report in the lead up to the re-election of President Obama.

    What are we talking about?

    For starters, the Federal Reserve’s recent report, which received nary a comment from the political and financial pundits on television.

    While the economy was on the minds of most voters last night, what they didn’t know may have very well swung the election to one candidate over another.

    And this particular tidbit of data is as important as it gets when we’re talking about economic health:

    Via SGT Report and The Daily Crux with commentary by Pragmatic Capitalism:

    Here’s an interesting new data point that the St Louis Fed has put together to calculate recession probabilities:

    “Recession probabilities for the United States are obtained from a dynamic-factor markov-switching model applied to four monthly coincident variables: non-farm payroll employment, the index of industrial production, real personal income excluding transfer payments, and real manufacturing and trade sales. “

    What’s interesting about this index is the current reading. At 20%, the index is at a level that has ALWAYS been followed by a recession. As you can see below, the index has never approached 20% without a subsequent recession. All 6 recessions since 1967 have coincided with 20%+ readings in the US Recession Probabilities index.

    It’s no secret that the economy is still hurting. According to this report we are on the verge of another recession within the midst of a broader ‘depression.’ Contrarian analysts have already suggested this is the case, with many saying we’ve been in recession since at least summer.

    Moreover, if you look at the real numbers behind the numbers, like the rate of real inflation, and bounce those against this purported economic growth you may be surprised to find that we never exited the recession!

    Look at the chart below. You see that red line? That’s the government’s official GDP, a measure for economic growth. The government shows it in positive territory and its been heralded without question by the mainstream machine as the proof for an economic recovery.

    Now look at the blue line. That’s the unofficial GDP as calculated by economist John Williams using algorithms that account for distortions in the way government calculates inflation.

    A recession, as defined by most traditional measures of economics, is a period of two consecutive quarters with negative economic growth.

    That’s right — this whole time during which millions were losing jobs and homes, and as food stamp usage doubled, we have been in recession. That’s over four years now.

    But did we really need a report from the Federal Reserve to confirm that for us?

    On another (related) note, stock markets are down over 300 points as of  this writing. Apparently Europe is in shambles (again).

    It seems this is how financial markets around the world are celebrating the re-election of a President who has presided over the largest cumulative debt increase in the nation’s history.

    Now that the election is over, we can return to our regularly scheduled programming. .


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      1. And this is news?

        • Well, to about 99% of Americans it will be….

          • Can’t wait for the GDP growth revisions, the unemployment “re statements” and other corrections that must soon come out.

            FOX NEWS has a story right now on the 5 things the media did for Obama. Its pretty incredible really. Something like 43 stores in 48 hours about Romney’s 47% video but not one story for 96 hours on Obama’s “you didn’t build that speech.” Its truly amazing stuff how far the so called media (really a leftist propaganda machine) will go.

            • I don’t doubt it and they’ll need bad numbers to justify QE 7. 😛

              • Isn’t QE3 forever though?

                • QE3 is just the baseline, expect other “injections” in large “one time” amounts as things get worse.

                • QE3 is for public consumption. The real QE amounts you will never know about.

              • I have a sudden urge to throw up. It started about 10:00est last night.

            • Time to remove the leftist media from the Nation?

              • Looks to me like it’s time to remove a touch more than half the nation from the nation.

                • Have to disagree, the turn out was less than 2008 or 2004. The Republicans would have won, if they had just had the same turn out as GWB in 2004. So, to those that chose not to vote, thanks a ton. :P* Obama lost almost 7 million votes vs. 2008. Truly sad(or there was a lot of cheating going on.

            • What I want to hear is the 5 things FOX did not do to help Romney.

          • OK, here’s a thought: whatever you want to call it, the economy has been crap for the past four years — only the Kool Aid drinkers deny that. Before the election, we had a GOP House, A Democrat Senate and President Obama. And after all the speeches, conventions, debates, dirty tricks and attack ads, we now have — drumroll please — a GOP House, A Democrat Senate and President Obama.

            Yet somehow, the next four years will be different.

            Really? Is that how it works???

            • Actually SOS I do think the next four years will be different. Just like 1930 was different from 1928.

              • Yeah, look what happened in 1933…

            • SonOfSam,

              Go to Jail.
              Do not pass GO.
              Do not collect $200.

            • You have to understand that the people that think this is a good thing are insane. Remember that the text book definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results…

              • Actually, that was Albert Einstein’s definition.

          • Food will never be as cheap ( and plentiful ) as it is now. Stock up while your money still has some buying power.
            Thanks again Mac for another valuable “heads up” article. Those of us who read your site daily appreciate it.

            • Food is affordable? Thenm why are my wife and I getting it from a food bank? We both work full time and have trouble making payments on rent and electricity, not to mention insurance, gas, fuel oil, propane and then after that is done we try and afford groceries but can’t because prices for everything keep going up and our income either stays the same or goes down. Tell me please where you shop that things are affordable for those of us most affected by the econmic crisis…

              • Mike, food is far more important than insurance. If you choose to starve to pay for something you do not need, that is your choice.

              • mike…you are obviously doing something wrong or living a unsustainable lifestyle…check your budget..the first thing you pay for each month is for your shelter, your food and your utilities…anything you pay for after that can be cut to the bare bones…yes, it is not fun and it hurts to not go out to eat, have cable tv, or all of the other stuff that can drain the wallet really fast…but those are lifestyle choices that many more people are gonna have to deal with as prices go up and shortages happen. if you and your wife are both working in paying jobs and are having trouble paying the bills and buying groceries then you both need to shave some expenses and change how you are doing things.

              • Mike. It is cheap by terms of what it will cost going forward. However as you stated ….you don’t pay for food so why bitch about it?

                • Mike

                  Food costs are going to keep rising across the globe. (We should none of us forget that it was food costs that were the primary trigger for the Arab Spring).

                  Some suggestions

                  1. What can you grow yourself?

                  Herbs and salad stuff tends to be very expensive in the shops but even a window box of baby spinach can reduce your weekly outgoings significantly while keeping you healthy. If you have only a small space to grow then choose your crops carefully for maximum gain to your pocket.

                  I sprout seeds for maximum nutrition at minimum cost in my apartment every winter.

                  2. Can you adjust your daily diet?

                  Cheaper cuts of meat cooked in a crockpot (we call it a slow cooker in the UK so I’m hoping I’m referring to the right gadget)are just as nutritious as steak. Buy brisket, or offal rather than high cost steaks etc. Use less meat so it becomes a way to add flavour to your meal rather than the key ingredient iykwim.

                  Do you need to eat meat/fish daily to stay healthy? Look up vegetarian recipes and have several meat free days per week.

                  Peanut butter is cheap & a great source of protein. Oats are cheaper than branded cereals for breakfast etc. Almost everyone can reduce their grocery bill by making a few changes to their daily diet, somewhere.

                  3. Learn to love beans/pulses. A huge % of the world’s population already subsists on a diet of mostly beans and rice. There are some fantastic Southern US recipes easily googlable to get you started.

                  4. Bulk buying – can you go halves with a neighbour or friend to purchase foodstuffs such as sacks of rice or potatoes at wholesale prices? I regularly do this with friends and my mother to keep costs down.

                  5. Eat seasonally. No fresh strawberries in December in this house. Instead I buy fruit/veggies when on sale in the growing season and mostly dehydrate for that boost of summer flavour in the winter months.(I’d can more but lack storage space).

                  6. Here in the UK bread prices just keep rising. I now make my own on a regular basis, once in a routine it’s easy enough to do.

                  The economy is so screwed I’m not gonna sneer at anyone who is struggling. With the constant job losses going on all around us – next week it could be me. Can we focus on practical aid rather than sniping please?

                  SHTF is hitting different people in different locales at different times. Some former preppers are now being forced to utilise their preps today. The rest of us should see this as a learning opportunity (thank you Manos!).

              • Do you have both a cell phone and a land line? If so, get rid of the land line. Do you have cable TV? If so, ditch it and spend that $80 a month on food. Insurance(to contradict the person that said “ditch it”) has to be kept for legal reasons(auto insurance), now if it is life insurance, then look at the price and decide. hint, if it is a whole life policy, cash it out and buy term(less than $400 a year for me at age 43, male, nonsmoker, ten year 250,000).

              • Coupons, Mike. I save 40-50% every week just by using coupons and couponmom.com. I buy 3 Sunday newspapers a week, make my list off the website, get organized with my list and coupons and go shopping. I buy multiples in the things I use that are 75-90% off that particular week. I’ve built up quite a stockpile and I rotate so food never goes out of date. Good Luck…I always wonder why people don’t take advantage of free money/coupons.

          • Sorry, I didn’t mean to thumbs down you .

          • The legislative branch no longer matters when a dictator rules! As we’ve seen obama just governs through executive edict! Now with the fear of an angry voting public and its political consequences removed and a 2nd term achieved.

            The only governing restraint has now been removed!!! He is now free & unfettered to remove the mask and be who he really is and do what is in his dark heart to do! God help us!!!!!!

            Pray for our nation! Pray for our countrymen! Pray for Israel! Pray!

            • Yes, but he will not do it to me. I refuse to comply with a dictator. It is, after all, my duty to resist.

              Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God, says Mr. Franklin. I agree.

              • Agreed! Resistance to evil is obedience to God. Tyranny is evil!

              • Didn’t have anywhere to go but up, considering that the 2008 recession pounded the crap out of it.

                You know, 2008, before you-know-who took office?

                Here’s let’s dispense with the cherry-picking:

                (select “10y” on the chart).

                Oh, and kindly explain to us when Reuters joined Fox News:

                …and since when did CNBC join the Fox family?

                Dude, seriously – I know full well that Fox’ opinion section leans rightward, just like MSNBC’s leans hard left. OTOH, both organizations do report hard news with much less bias in it.

                • Satori “anti-business” is much too broad. Small businesses are not the same as corporate businesses and Obama regulates and/or destroys (or owns) them differently.

                • …you do realize that thinkprogress.org is a bit of a propaganda site, right?

                  I also don’t rely on Fox news for analysis/opinion for the same reasons, but before you ask: I used their ticker URL because it was the first one in Google’s results.

                  The DJIA dropped in either case. 😉

              • How much buying power has the dollar lost? Meat that cost 3.99 a pound is now 6.99 per pound so it takes more money hence the volume of money the store takes in went up but the amount of goods went down due to price increases. So if the dow went up its because more dollars changed hands not because more goods were transfered.

              • The gains in the market are tied to mass printing of cash by the federal reserve, and the lack of “safe” foreign markets. There is no growth in value justifying the gain in the market.

                • the fact remains
                  the stock market has went up SUBSTANTIALLY under Obama
                  like it or not
                  (and I do concur with bizgal there is nothing really to justify this,but it has done it never the less )

                  and I have to disagree that the market could “only go up”
                  for awhile there we were losing 750,000 jobs a month
                  yeah that many
                  remember that ??

                  the market EASILY could have continued its downward spiral

                  as for Obama destroying small business??
                  what specific laws have been passed ??

                  and remember
                  CONGRESS passes the laws

                  if there is some sort of conspiracy here
                  by all means expose it
                  with some facts

                  our economy is in a PERMANENT downward trajectory
                  blame it on who you like
                  it ain’t gonna get better
                  no matter who is in the White House

                  anyone’s failure to understand this
                  puts them at a huge disadvantage when it comes to making decisions about how to survive the coming years

                  we are in a permanent state of collapse
                  put in office whoever you like
                  rant and rave to your hearts content

                  as I have said before

                  “preppers can be sheeple too”

                  and dear God
                  please quit going to Faux News for your financial info
                  I quit watching that broadcast rag at the end of 2008
                  just as the collapse was beginning with housing
                  their so called expert Neil Cavuto was on telling everyone how it was nothing to worry about,that in his estimation it would all be better in 6 months
                  I remember thinking “YOU F_CKING IDIOT,IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER”

                  I turned it off and haven’t went back since
                  like it or not
                  FOX is MSM just like the rest

                  thats right FOX is MSM

                  do a little research on Ailes and Murdoch and tell me different

                  here a sheeple
                  there a sheeple
                  everywhere a sheeple

                  just in a different color !!!

                • Satori (I know you’re camping…)

                  The two biggest issues are Obamacare and increased taxes — each will profoundly affect small businesses.

                  Obamacare has forced small business owners to remain stagnant and not hire because the law will seriously impact their businesses.

                  Obama wants to redistribute wealth and uses this to push his agenda through increased taxes. Raising taxes ‘on the wealthy’ affects all small businesses due to the tax filing structure. Most small businesses (proprietors, LLCs, and limited partnerships) file standard 1040 forms with the appropriate other forms like Schedule C, depreciation forms, etc.

                • True. Its like saying more people are living more comfortably because casinos are earning more.

              • Only because of all the Quantitative Easing. Without the trillions dollars stolen from working people and/or borrowed from China, the Dow would be under 5000.

            • How much buying power has the dollar lost? Meat that cost 3.99 a pound is now 6.99 per pound so it takes more money hence the volume of money the store takes in went up but the amount of goods went down due to price increases. So if the dow went up its because more dollars changed hands not because more goods were transfered.

          • Yeah…but they won’t believe it ’cause they got their Obama phones, sports and American Idol. And when things get bad, they can always go out and loot what they want.

          • Mac Salvo: I guess I just tend to give most people too much credit for being at least of average intelligence. After the market crashes of 2000 and 2008 I’m still amazed that most folks have failed to grasp the basics of economics since it has a direct effect on every aspect of their lives. It’s as though most just don’t care enough to learn. Someone once said, “never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups”. Your 99% is probably not far off the mark.

            • If you are going to insult people, at least spell Mac’s last name right!!!

          • subtle Mac, very subtle!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!

          • But the media will report the red line not the blue. According to the blue, we have been in recession since 2005.

        • to the American Idiots who voted for Obama it is news because they have their heads so far up their asses that their cheecks can keep their ears warms!!!!!!!

        • Not that I believe we ever left the first recession, in fact I believe we’ve been in a depression for quite a while… but I digress…

          If we want to believe that we will have another recession, then it started today! Look at the markets.

        • As I have posted before, this downturn should last until late next Spring. They always do.

          The first year of a new Presidential cycle is invariably a down year because the party elected wants to take credit (pun intended)for the economic uptick 3.5 years later.

          Business cycles are typically four years long.

          Unfortunately, (O’Bummer notwithstanding), war creates chaos. Chaos has unintended consequences. The dollar may become the victim of the next one coming sooner rather than later.

          Keep prepping.

          • You posted some foolish crap. There was no change of party for one thing. For another there is no real economy as most of it is based on printing money. We can no longer pay our own way with the end result just like someone who tries to live on credit cards. The lay offs and early boomer retirements will totally overwhelm the finances of this country.

      2. Kunstler said it in his THE LONG EMERGENCY

        bubble burst the end of 2008 as predicted


        lower your expectations

        • I have been warning people about the Caribbean plate for weeks now, and they just had a 7.5 off of Guatemala. This was on the northwestern section of the Caribbean plate. The eastern section is going to go and send a large tsunami into the southeast coastline. It is so primed right now as this 7.5 completes the cycle of the western part of the plate, now it is the eastern section ready to go, likely when the polar activity goes off again.

          • Watching CNN this morning and that imbecile bald headed finacial “expert” was saying that the stock market went up 75% in the last 4 years. Compare the dow jones to REAL money of gold, silver, or most precious metals and the stock market would be about at 8000-9000 points, not the 13000 level it is now. I don’t know about everyone else, but I totally hate skewed averages that don’t tell the whole story.

            • Do yourself a favor and unsubscribe from CNN. I don’t watch any news because it’s all propaganda or cheerleading depending on what network you’re watching.

              I’d rather read and educate myself rather than being told lies by someone reading from a teleprompter.

              • @ Rodster. A lot of times I just leave the TV on for the animals so there is some noise. I also leave the news on sometimes because of the breaking news factor like in case of Israel attacking Iran, which the next window is Nov.8-18, and because of just like this earthquake I want to know when something is happening. I take very little validity from ANY of the news sites as they are ALL slanted towards one view or opinion. Do watch the earthquake activity, somthing horrible is brewing with the plates of the world.

                • Remember the good ‘ol days when TV was free? We removed cable TV with its little “bundle” of fun from our home this year and so far we have saved $1,800 just this year alone and expect to save $10,000 over 4 years – YES, TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Unplug from the matrix.

                • Find another channel like the TV Guide channel. 🙂

                • Amen Rodster! Amen!
                  Going onto 3 years now without the Big Blue Light of Videodrome Sheep-programming. I don’t miss the 100+ channels of commercials. I have the complete series of the Sopranos, Deadwood, Rome and the Walking Dead on DVD and I definitely do not miss the $50 a month TV tax.

                  @ Be Informed 23 Aug 2011 5.9 Richter Earthquake in Virginia. Walk, Don’t Run!

                • BI, you animals deserve a little peace and you should give it to them. There are no propaganda machines in nature and they don’t need the noise.

                • @ Gods Creation. The animals do like when the classical music channel is left on. I do remember when TV was free, but the lousy local channels only offer 3 channels and they stink. They kind of hold everyone hostage to not having anything. When SHTF it will be more peaceful without the TV on. Be listening to the shortwave to the stations still left broadcasting.

                • You would be better served worrying about the plates in your china cabinet.

          • Hi BI!,

            JUST saw that, we’ll see what happens next, hmmm?

          • AWWW man, BI…..Didn’t want to read that! Time for a little vacation I think. Maybe over to central Texas for a while?

            • @ AO1(AW). Awareness of what is coming is half the battle to preparedness for what is coming. The plates are really active, more so than I have ever seen. Keep an outlook on the activity, it is going to become more intense.

          • @Be informed…your opinion, would this put loads on the southern california plates and/or the new madrid?

            • arg….faults not plates. it’s still early.

            • @ kynasse. I did not directly predict this earthquake, but I have been warning about this area since August before any of these earthquakes hit. This area directly affects the New Madrid, especially the eastern portion of it. Remember 1812, massive earthquakes on the New Madrid, the eastern portion of the Caribbean plate croke in Venezuela, AND the central secion of the San Andreas all broke the same year. You betta the three are connected. This earthquake is further north and will have a little more bearing on the San Andreas.

              I am watching the Cascadia fault big time, as I was looking at the 7.7 and it is the side to side motion that opens up a zone for the Cascadia movement to lurch into. If it breaks within Thanksgiving it will be a 8.8-9.0 in size. If it breaks later then it will be a 9.1-9.3. The longer it waits to break, the more tension and pressure it is under and the bigger it will be. The Indonesian earthquake of 9.1 occured a few weeks later after a 8.1 on the southern portion of the Australian plate.

              I am still watching polar activity as there was a 4.9 and 4.5 in the polar region but honestly I did not think these were big enough to show an earthquake this big coming, I thought more in the range of 5.9-6.4. I do know that the Caribbean plate is going, and I believe it is much sooner than people realize. I will watch the polar region to try to give a day.

              • Like I said read Matthew 24

              • Mood = Prepping . There are earthquakes all around the Caribbean plate.In all the border of the plate.

                @ BI looking forward for that prediction of the date

                • @ Puerto Rico. Until I start to see energy focused towards this region I cannot give an accurate date to WHEN it will happen. It is extremely important to me to not exaggerate something so serious. I felt very bad for all the people that got their hopes up from the polls from Fox News that were completely inaccurate and way off from the exact results. The disappointment for many was a result of a totally slanted polls that did way more harm to many people in the long run than change anything in the outcome. Unless I see something that makes me fairly positive that the Caribbean fault is going to break, I just cannot give a prediction on and unnecessarily frighten people if it does not happen.

                  When I have given earthquakes predictions it was because past records showed this was a pattern, in which I gave the percentages based on the past events that lead to the bigger earthquakes. Now, what you can look for if I happen to not have the computer on is 5.0+ earthquakes in the polar regions, 68 and 1/2 degrees north to the north pole, 58 and 1/2 degrees south to the south pole, and 55-57 degrees south. When you see this, it means 77-90%+ chance of an earthquake of 6.5+ within 15 days. To determine the location of the earthquake I will have to go over all the records I have to see the most likely locations. Then I have to use a globe to determine the line in which the energy is gravitating towards, much like retracing the point of origin that a bullet came from. Takes time, but it can be done as shown before.

                  Watch the Cocos plate and the especially the South American plate. Look at the Mid Atlantic Ridge from 10 degrees south to 15 degrees for earthquake activity, this will be focused at the eastern portion of the Caribbean plate that will be the mega earthquake will break. It is the eastern portion of the Caribbean plate that circles around from eastern Venezuela to about the Virgin Islands. Notice the lack of activity here, this means it is totally dangerously locked and much energy is waiting to be released.

          • There are two things that are so different about this earthquake. First, there wasn’t a arctic or antarctica earthquake. Also, there was another nice one in Utah, 4.5 I think and than another one is Alaska all within an hour, like this long stretch of fault was moving around.

            • @ you don’t need to know. There was both Arctic and Antarctica earthquakes, but not over 5.0. There were 4.9 and 4.5 which I did not think was enough to indicate such an earthquake of this size. I posted my prediction of only 5.9-6.4, not 7.4 or 7.5.

          • Read Matthew 24

            • @ Jim. I know it is coming, but there is no reason that someone cannot use science to predict where, when and how big it will be. Just like hurricane predictions 100 years ago seemed out of reach, earthquake forecasting can be done based on where they occured years or decades ago. Faults have not changed that much, and where they start before and end with a big earthquake, now works to show this like a year ago or 40 years ago. Cloud formations and wind direction are the same principle. Also measuring energy focal points on a globe helps some to.

        • “THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME”. No thank God, Life would be quite boring if things always stayed the same.

          The nature of Life is Change. Personally I thrive on that change and embrace it. Neither do I lower my expectations. I am always alert for opportunity, and change brings opportunities.

          I am going to double down, the minute I see one. 🙂

      3. Great article Mac. Thank you! At last check the DOW is down 339 points or 2.5%

        • This is the report that sent stocks tumbling this morning.


          also posted at the Daily Crux

          • Thanks KY Mom! What an economic mess.

            Bloomberg is reporting that Obama may enact a Carbon Tax to offset part of the deficit.

            We can’t possibly reduce federal spending to ease an over-spending problem can we (sarcasm)? No, that’s too logical.

            ( http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-07/obama-may-levy-carbon-tax-to-cut-the-u-s-deficit-hsbc-says.html )

            Carbon taxing is nothing more than a get rich quick scheme governments dreamed up to continue fleecing tax payers. It’s just about as legitimate as snake oil. As the global debt crisis enters this new, more dangerous phase, we will see far more creative taxation plans emerge.

            To their credit China told the Europeans what to do with their carbon tax scheme.

          • I disagree KY MOM. This is the report that sent stocks tumbling…

            Obama Reelected

            No link required.

            • Gods creation: Both you and Ky mom are right; both reasons is why the market has tanked. I also know and agree w/ ky mom about the UN small arms treaty. The UN small arms treaty cannot supersede the Bill of Rights; we cannot be bound to international treaties/laws.

              • Laura M: Not legally, but that hasn’t stopped the Globalists in government from trying to make US believe that they can.

                WE know different. Get the word out.

              • Laura, we are ONLY bound by Gods Law.

                The corp is bound by the Constitution, and it can not be superseded by treaty. Since the corp does not recognize the Constitution as a binding law, you must not recognize the corp lest you give up your protections in Law.

        • “Stocks accelerated their post-election sell-off across the board Wednesday, triggered by worries over the looming “fiscal cliff” and as fears over Europe’s economy reemerged.”


      4. And so it begins…

        As I write this the Dow is down 327+ points.

        I have said long and often, in my never to be humble opinion, that we are headed into a generational paradigm shift in the landscape of this once great republic.

        As one whom practices (as best I can) a mindset and lifestyle of self sufficiency, I have never believed we would wake up, look out the window and see a zombie apocalypse.

        I admit there is a slight risk that some large event as paralyzing as an EMP, natural disaster, or meteor could bring wanton destruction to infrastructure, but the reality is ever so slight.

        I believe we will see the continuation of “crazier than bat shit” financial policy, and unchecked consumption by the “I gotta’ get mine now” crowd, that will accelerate the degradation of society as it exists today.

        I believe we passed the proverbial point of no return “many Moons ago” a little Indian lingo there in honor of Elizabeth Warren’s victory (What an idiot).

        Financial collapse and the ramifications that manifest from said collapse is the most likely scenario to ruination if the republic, buckle up it’s gonna’ be a bumpy ride!!

        Weather hyper inflation or de-inflation, makes no difference. The dollars you hold today will have less value tomorrow and less value the day after that, etc, etc…..

        The end of the current fiat paper is coming; When? Who knows, will it be replaced by another? Probably, but the thinking people will not buy in whole hog this time around, and any solution other than a precious metal base will be short lived.

        Having said all that, I think it is OK that we got a lesser man back sitting in the Oval Office.

        If the fall to the bottom of the financial cliff is 100 feet. I think it will be better to accelerate the fall, as opposed to putting it off 10-15 years and falling 300 feet.

        This guy is who he is and at least we know that the pain will come sooner rather than later, and we will be able to start a reset.

        Look to your family and close friends in these, the times that test men’s souls!! (A little bible lingo for all the believers).

        When it is all said and done and we take the dirt nap, degrading back into the soil from, where we came, the true legacy is the value we provided to the ones we love by the knowledge strength and love we imparted during our short time on this big round rock.

        Stay thirsty my friends…..Oh what the hell…..Drink up!!!!!

          • Casey,
            I was referring to the use of the word “Soul” as being biblical, not the T.P. quote itself.

            I should have been clearer, it was a weak attempt at humor.

            Being an agnostic do not believe in a “Soul” per sae..

            As in “my” soul will go to heaven when I die.

            Or I have one that could be tried in these times.

            I do however like religion(s).

            I have read the bible may times (Born, Baptized & Graduate of Catholic School, it is a wonderful tome, and holds much wisdom.

            I think the value religion brings to society is beyond measure and therefor I support it, though I do question the Muslim precepts more and more.

            I digress.. Sorry I hoe this makes my reference to religion more clear!

            Stay thirsty my friend!

            • Hope!!

            • Wally, I must conclude there is a higher power and that the essence of our energy will one day become a part of it when the physical body dies. You can join the positive energy by living within the Laws of Nature (God), or you can join the negative energy by living by the laws of the likes of Obama and his inferior ilk.

              Religion is the belief in a specific transport vehicle for that to happen through. Just because you don’t know what the vehicle will be does not mean that there is no trip once the body dies.

              One can be right with the forces of Nature without ever stepping into a church, and one can be a part of the negative energy while going to church every Sunday.

              As for value through organized religion, it is chiefly responsible for war and a tool of the negative energy to convince the masses they are fighting for the cause of something bigger than themselves. God is what He is to you, and only you.

              To me, God is Nature itself. You can personify it if you need to, and many do just that. I am content in the knowledge that God, and the Power of Nature is beyond the comprehension of my human brain.

              One day, when my body stops functioning and producing internal energy, it will all become crystal clear. That knowledge is our reward for living in harmony with Nature.

              Let the thumbs down begin….

              • Why would anyone give you a thumbs down. At least you think about some things that most ignore.

        • “Look to your family and close friends in these, the times that test men’s souls!!”

          Thomas Paine, not the bible, but it’s the truth nonetheless.

          • wncmountainboy

            Sorry to be unclear…
            The biblical reference was to the word “Soul” itself, not the entire quote from Paine.


        • It is the purpose of the Jedi to ensure peace within the Republic and support Democracy. It is NOT our duty to blindly follow those in power but to preserve the rights of the citizens and encourage them to elect better leaders. Obama is about a year away from issuing his own Order 66, he’s already trying to disarm us, and his abuse of executive orders is exactly what Palpatine did. Obama’s political basis is obviously Sith training and we need to put a stop to this now.

          This is a call of duty for all Jedi, Americans and freedom loving, firearms owning men and women to take a stand and stop letting the corrupt power abusers walk over our constitution.

        • WallyDog: You said; “I believe we passed the proverbial point of no return “many Moons ago” a little Indian lingo there in honor of Elizabeth Warren’s victory (What an idiot).

          I disagree.

          One thing I know for sure is that Elizabeth Warren kicked Tiny Tim Geithner’s ass real good every time he came up to testify in front of the Congressional Oversight Board during the Great Bank Bailout.

          She will keep turning the screws on the GB’s and that is a good thing! The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

          • dk

            Claiming to be of native American heritage for benefit in education and advancement in politics is what my reference was to…Not politics per sae….

            I am a political agnostic also…

            I am a libertarian, and I am an equal opportunity hater as in I hate all politicians…


      5. Say hello again to the Great Recession. Or the Greater Depression. Or whatever you prefer to call it.

        • How about “CYBERPRESSION”.

        • The Great ‘Flush’ maybe?…..

        • It was always a depression. It’s just that the govt and MSM hid the obvious from the 99%. 😉

          • And a Depression is hard to hide without prozac and ebt cards, check out ebt man on you tube Life is good

      6. another great article Mac

        you’ve been knockin’ ’em out of the park here lately

        • You too Satori! Keep those great resource links a comin’!

      7. If you wernt standing in line for a free phone you prob knew this and for those of us that work we just took another punch to the gut. Prep hard for the day will come!

        • Prepping in Hyperdrive now. Was wanting a little more time. Not going to get that it seems. We’ve enough for a year on foodstuffs. Need to catch up on TP. I hear dollars are worse than John Wayne TP!

          • Been trying also to scramble in getting more foodstuffs. while at sams last night looking for more powdered milk,salt(bulk)and can milk none was to be found anywhere on shelfs. Anyone else notice things not in abundance? scary

            • Nonie Mo last time we went to Sams as well nothing… I did ask about the salt Answer: NO LONGER CARRY IT.. WHAT? REALLY? Andthe things they had were higher then the week before!


        • Ok hold on a minute.

          Are preps counted as “income” or “assets”?

          Because… I mean let’s start facing reality here. The whole policy of the .gov now is “giving away free resources” and there’s only so many to go around.

          Try to earn them. At this point you can’t.

          Where’s my EBT card and free phone? Why not. Meanwhile stockpile your preps. More prep money for me.

          Sad that it comes to this. But the thought does cross my mind.

      8. As a silver lining – silver too is down like .40 and under $32 an ounce. If it drops to $30 or below I’d probably add some even though I have my hands on quite a bit already it just seems like a far more prudent investment. Its not like the FED isn’t going to stop printing over the next 4 years.

      9. From the desk of Capt Obvious thanks for the info. 🙂

        Wait for the implosion come 2014 when Obamacare kicks in and those that don’t have govt approved healthcare are penalized/taxed and they don’t have the money to pay.

        Good times USA, good times. Let the collapse begin so we can reboot this fucked up country.

        • We had a term for pulling the plug when I was working in the auto plants. The “North American Hard Reset”. Worked every time.

      10. 50% of the population have no problem with the idea of what you work for belongs to me also. The Politicians know they can take from the working and give to the non working and they will be voted in time and time again.

        It has gone to far to be fixed. States must decide what other states believe as they do and leave the United States and become their own country.

        Leave the Union or stand in line for your Green Cracker on Tuesaday.

        • Saw that movie the other day. I kinda wonder how NYC kept everything under control through all of that. The 70’s made weird movies.

          • Not to weird, just like you see on the east coast today, folks giving up freedom for a handout. Instead of preparing, they just set on their ass and said let the Gov. take care of me. Same story line in the movie, just people waiting to be fed. How would they do anything else? They are unarmed, no food , no water. just a blob of flesh waiting for the Grim Reaper.


        • I’m thinking of 1936. The economy was in shambles, but Roosevelt got re-elected anyway. People were so scared they preferred a devil they knew to a saviour they didn’t recognize. The Depression continued. Economists argue over whether WW2 was what got us out of it, and I think so too, but not for their reasons. WW2 forced us to dump worthless and incompetent officers from the military, and I think something like that happened in civil life as well. War exposes fools and idiots better than anything else.

          • The reality is WWII did not get us out of a depression. When you remove 10% of the population (about 30% of the workforce) and put them in uniform you create a demand for uniforms with a shortage of labor. Inflate the currency and occur debt and you can build a lot for a while.

            The aftermath of WWII got us out of a depression. When the dust settled the US held 90% of the worlds gold and an industrial base unscathed by war. With no nation able to compete with the US it’s no wonder the post war “boom” took place. That “boom” unlike any before ever seen allowed the US to pay it’s war debts while dramatically increasing the standard of living.

            The post WWII economic boom was an aberration.

        • That’s why I was convinced that Obama would be reelected. I’m no political strategist or pollster. The 2 party system has become Diet Coke vs Diet Pepsi.

          The DemoCRAPS have increased their voting base by giving away free phones, govt disability, food stamps, welfare, and no free healthcare on the backs of those who are lucky to still have a job.

          This Nation needs to implode economically and fast. I pray for the day that the US is broken up into States once again. The Republic was a nice experiment but the left once again have found a way to fuck things up for everyone.

      11. This isn’t just about the economy. This is beyond repair. We are entering another Dark Age. But this time there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Some will survive, but none will prosper. The children of the light have succumbed to the children of darkness and evil. I will take many with me.

        • Good morning MF.
          In the last few hours, we will join others from around the world commenting on Mac’s site. And we will be launching the largest verbal battle in the history of mankind. “Mankind.” That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can’t be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it’s fate that today is the 7th of November, and you will once again be typing for our freedom… Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution… but from annihilation.
          We are typing for our right to live. To exist.
          And should we win the day, the 7th of November will no longer be known as an American election day, but as the day the SHTF readers declared in one voice: “We will not go quietly into the night!” We will not vanish without a fight! We’re going to live on! We’re going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!

          • LOL. Brilliant 🙂

            • Thanks..I thought it would add some levity to a dire prediction!!!

      12. Gee, I thought that the President and his Commie buddies were going to save us all from this recession/depression stuff.

        The way I see it, the people of the United States voted for freedom last night. The freedom to use their EBT cards, the freedom to force you to pay for someone else’s abortion, the freedom to devalue your Savings/House so Wall Street keeps kicking some back to the Dem’s.

        Pretty soon it will be the freedom to tell your Pastor what he can/cannot preach or what you and I can post on sites like this. FREEDOM!

      13. I have been way too fixated on this election crap and now I can go back to really studying the earthquakes, and what is coming. I am however very grateful that those two losers that made the most asinine comments about rape lost, and lost big. That idiot from Missouri talking about legitimate rape lost by 12 points to something that was a give me state. That mongoloid that spit in the name of God by saying that rape was part of God’s plan lost by 7 points and should have won by 20.

        It is absolutely disgusting that two fecal minded individuals can take down their entire party with such stupid comments. Anyone that supported a republican senate can totally blame these two for the disaster that their party faced. They should have regained control, yet their attitude and lack of respect for women and especially victims cost their party dearly.

        It is amazing how someone could ever empower a criminal act, and then say that God caused it. Countless people have suffered a daughter, a wife, a mother, or other female VICTIM that has gone through rape. It is an evil act and is totally destructive mentally and spiritually. Many guys simply don’t understand what it is for an innocent women or girl to go through this abomination. It does occur though that gangs of faggot perverts have raped men also, and it shows that rape is an evil act that occurs in both genders and all ages. for anyone to condole rape as God’s plan or as legitimiate is completely ANTI-GOD and ANTI-VICTIM.

        Many respectable republican voters in both Missouri and Indiana broke off part alliances and gave these total losers a message, we are not for criminal acts of perversion. respect victims, and don’t empower vicous crimes. This was definitely a very bright spot in the election that showed that some people still have respect for justice for the innocent.

        • Hi Bi,

          Beleive me, I KNOW…that ‘Akins’ is from MY State…
          sometimes…..I could JUST vomit. I love my fellow man, but someone like…THAT….where-Oh-where-Oh-where do they dig this kind of ‘filth’ up at? If there’s something in this life that could bring me to limit of actual despair it’s KNOWING that the Human genome harbors this kind of IGNORANCE…OMG (With ALL due respect)

          @ Mac

          Hey Buddy, I haven’t seen that ‘vampire’ process running from the server for a while…you mst have gotten to the root of it! Tan’ks a BUNCH!

          • JOG, thanks for the help — I have removed some non essential scripts on the backend and we’ve run multiple malware scans across the server (non found, btw, just to ease everyone’s mind about that) — not sure if those scripts were what was causing the issue. We’ll find out soon enough I’m sure. We are monitoring the server from the hosting and user side, so if it pops up again my hope is we can isolate it and get it fixed permanently!

            Thanks so much for your help with this. It’s been a headache for us, and I am sure for the rest of you guys, so thanks for your patience.


            • Hi Mac,

              I KNOW you guys have been…a ‘little’ busy, what with the server issues and LAST NIGHT, LOL. Great job though, with my upgraded ISP connection the site just FLIES now. T’anks a bunch for all your work…the articles just keep gettin’ better and BETTER…stellar job Bother!!

              Incidentally, did the ESET thing help any…I mean, were you able to ‘see’ what was transacting?

          • @ JustOneGuy. I think a lot of times people lose empathy for someone that is a victim of crime because they have not experienced it or had someone close go through something like this. Many guys don’t understand the shear pain, fear, and torture that a women goes through being raped. Yet you would think that there is the underlying fear of every guy that if they ever end up in prison they could suffer the same fate as so many innocent women that have had to go through.

            Stupid statements like these two slime made help to empower crime against women and men both. Crime is crime, and crime is evil and wrong and God is never part of evil like this. The mere fact that the entire republican party suffered from this because they did not have the conviction to come out and say what I am saying, that these two vermin need to drop out and let a true candidate run against the two democrats, then let the people choose. The people had no choice that understand crime and the massive suffering and economical destruction they have on society, they either had to vote against these two bottom dwellers or not vote at all for anyone.

          • One other thing about those two losers that said legitimate rape and rape is God’s plan that thankfully got walloped in the election. It is not pro-life or pro-choice issue here, it is pro-victim and pro-justice, AND anti-criminal. I totally support victim rights and the self defense of ALL Americans against the scum that would attack them.

            • Hi BI!,

              I AM heartened to see that there remains enough of the ‘divine spark’ in people yet that such a ‘vector’ – for momentary lack of a better word – as what Akins attempted to promulgate ‘ar large’ was seen for what it was. Mayhaps, yet there remains hope in the greater sense for us all.

              Whatever it is in the wotld that we call ‘divine’, yet abides…and I think is less than amused with such as he 🙁

            • I think you have taken their remarks a little out of context, maybe go back and listen to the entire speech. I am not saying that these weren’t completely stupid things to say, but they are in no way as evil as you are portraying them. Neither man condoned or supported rape in any way, the MSM propagandized these statements viciously.

              • Hi MX,

                Sorry I didn’t get back sooner, the site’s been wild the last couple of days, LOL.

                Perhaps…IF there is a single thing anymore that ‘rubs me raw’ it is this: People have – in many cases – become such SLAVES to dogma that thier abilty to ‘THINK’ has ‘exited stage left’ as it were. I suspect, that you, as many are in daily life,, who are good, reasonable people who in the course of daily life have no real chioce but to “THINK’ through what they are doing, saying etc but who are also at a loss in the tumult of the world they see are highly motivated to ‘find’ someone, amyone who ‘seems’ to embody the slightest spark of the divine yet within them. I too, have felt this way in the past.

                The problem is that those we are asked to choose from are such a uniformly ‘insufficient’ lot that when push comes-to-shove they simply fold under the immense pressures involved and allow themselves to fall back onto ‘Dogma’ as the solution. Perhaps Akins, in and of himself, is not a ‘raving madman’ but he made a CARDINAL error in the full view of the public that showed just how deeply he was ‘out of his depth.

                Various are the people of the Earth and many, many viewpoints are espoused thereby…we, as a species, seemingly are developing an ‘antibody’ level resistance to percieved stupidity both of what we see of individuals around us, and also what we see of the collective stupidity of various ‘aggregations of people’s collective thought which are the things I have herein refered to as ‘dogma’….religious, political, scientific and etc.

                I hope, that explains, as best may, BI’s and My reaction/portrayal of this thing. Brother, the time for STUPID is awfully close to being over…WE – the HUMAN race, can no longer afford such. Our Heavenly father waits for us to finish suffering the birthing-pains of ‘congealment’ of coming together in a far VASTER assemblage than what we now are. Many, many things, edifices will not survive this transition. I don’t care one wit what ‘Institutions’ and ‘Edifices to the Past’ survive the coming convulsions…and yes, I don’t think there’s any doubt that such are coming all too soon. I only care that Mankind learns to love itself as much as He loves us and that in the End, we might find favor in his sight. The Road is Long, Goodnight Friend.

        • Mourdock did not say rape was ordained by God. He said a life that was created from a tragic situation such as rape is the second victim. God creates life for His reasons and plan, but I doubt from your comments that you have a clue about that. Stick with Boehner he has said this is election was a mandate to cooperate. Good luck on that one.

          • @ Jim. It was mourdick meant, and people were not that naive to believe it. Someone like this that totally hates women and thinks of them like some test tube rather than a human being blasts the good name of God. To me God is way beyond the dema God status that too many people portray God as. There are far better ways that God could create life than allow an innocent women to go through true torture. Besides this, way would a perfect God want the genetic filth of a rapist passed on to a child.

            There are so many guys out there that don’t have a clue the pure physical, mental, and spiritual torment and anguish that a women or girl goes through being raped. Each one of us could easily go to prison for something we did not do, and get butt rammed by the queers in prison. Some guy that didn’t respect women would then feel the fear and the absolute torture that an innocent female goes through being raped. Old saying that men need to understand that don’t respect women, until you walked in the shoes of another, don’t judge them. It is about respect for victims, not something more profound that this.

            That creep showed exactly the way he feels about women and insulted God for having some demonic plan in place for just such an event like rape. To be God is not some offshoot of man monkey, but the most complex form of energy in the universe that would not put someone through pure torture like rape. This moredick slapped the most superior force in the universe right in the face for being so stupid that life would be created from such ugliness.

            I don’t know what the devil is, to me it is some form of completely negative energy around that thrives on pain and misery. Life from rape and suffering sounds exactly like a plan from the “evil one” than what God would ever do, ever do. I look at things as having a rational sciencfic explanation to it, and rape has one to me, bad genes. Something is out of whack chemically in the brain and other parts of the body. Someone that rapes another is whacked out and if anything has some true evil to them. Why God would want this evil passed on is exactly a complete paradox to what God would want, positive for all. The evil though wants this passed on, like a beast trying to procreate as much as possible to spread their poisonous seed as much as possible.

            I hate to see women using abortion as birth control like in Russia, but every single time some women is raped, in my opinion, it is absolutely their choice to either carry what is in them or not. You will find that most Libertarians and most Republicans totally agree with this also. Those that feel that an innocent women that has done nothing to harm anyone that is raped should be forced to carry something for 9 months, are usually the type of people so self righteous that they only care about their agenda and have not personally gone through a terrible event to understand what it is like to have any sort of empathy for a victim.

            Most religions, other than muslims and very radicalized individuals have gotten past that burning people at the stake for heresy. They have found that their belief gives them peace and oneness with God, and the need to shove their beliefs down other people’s throats is exactly what is against what God stands for. This is one of the biggest turn offs of radicalized religion is trying to force others to belief the way they do or dire consequences will occur to them. That the positive force of the energy condoles evil negative acts of barbarism.

            The muslims do this and blow up people in the name of their God, and scream allah u ackbar before doing this. I put ANYONE in the same category as those islamic nut jobs that strap bomb belts to their waists and detonate themselves, as ANYONE that would ever bad name God and say that God had a plan for some innocent women being raped. The exact same mentality, God willed it, this was God’s plan. To me this is pure crap and belongs back in the 5th century or on some planet of the apes.

            Thankfully most people saw these two losers for what they were, against good and what is fair to women and men alike. You won’t have to see these two piles in the U.S. government anymore, the people voted correctly, like when you flush a big fat stink ridden turd down the toilet.

            • Wrong wrong wrong. Mourdock is a good man and would have been one of the most staunch defenders of the 2nd Amendment in the senate. The MSM demonized him so badly he could not win, and you completely bought into their spin/lies.

        • Yeah but you get sub-morons like this popping out of the woodwork as a backlash to radical lesbian sub-morons like Andrea Dworkin, who claimed that ALL heterosexual sex was rape.

        • He didn’t say that God caused the rape, he said that if a pregnancy resulted, it was God’s will. Still not a great thing to say, but there is a big difference.

      14. I could’ve sworn this was a depression.

      15. Patrick Geryl
        who is predicting the “end of the world” (at least as we know it)

        was predicting a major earthquake for this time period

        “”Flash! Geryl Quake Hit

        For some weeks now we have been advising you that 2012 researcher Patrick Geryl was predicting a major (7+) magnitude earthquake in the Nov 7-9 window.

        His predicted quake has just occurred:



        • Interesting website Satori! Thanks for sharing, wonder how acurate he is….Add something to my preparadeness…

      16. I believe Osama was re-elected through divine intervention. It is he who will inherit the wrath put upon this country soon, he will be at the helm and he will be held accountable. All the money, all the lies, all the manipulation will do him no good. He can not hide when the ones who he has enabled come for his flesh after they find their empty mail boxes.

        God allows us to exercise free will however he will not cover for our atrocities and the consequences of our behavior. I pity those who have created this needy and ignorant society, they will pay with their very souls. They can not enter heaven since they have already sold out to the devil. To some this seems like a victory but to others, it is an end of decency and humanity. Prepare now because this is the beginning of the real end.

        • 10 4 we are in the ninth inning. And those depending on the republicants to rescue you, get some prozac asap

        • Wow, that’s a good different way of looking at it! Oh yeah!

        • No, the sheeple will still blame Bush….

      17. We’ve been in a recession. The recession will continue and it will get worse. I have an internet business. 2011 was a lousy year. This year is worse. Revenue is down by a third and profits are down by more than that.

        • Barn Cat – I have an internet biz also and it’s been TERRIBLE this year and really bad the last few months. Was hoping it would pick up based on election results, but that was not meant to be. I saw the slow down coming, hit the panic button and went thru some savings to pay my car off two years early. $350 a month isn’t much, but it sure is nice not to have to pay it anymore. Especially now with almost no business coming in. Even my international orders have dried up so obviously it is and will be a global thing.

        • The company I work for has about 50 people, our revenue has dropped from $37 million a year under Bush to $6 million this year. Thanks a lot 0bama!!! I will be very surprised if this company even exists after all the 0bamacare taxes kick in.

      18. Now we all wait until the money runs out.

        • FB
          Money runs out?…what money?

          • Everyone else’s that they can take.

      19. To preface, I did not vote. There was no viable third party candidate, and I believe, as do many on here, that the “choice” between two parties is not a choice at all. Having said that, I just wanted to get a pulse on people’s feeling here.
        I notice alot of talk about how Romney was “cheated,” how if this or that had not (or had) occured he would have won. So, to those saying such things, I want to ask: Does not the fact that he is a dyed in the wool Mormon (he was a bishop in the LDS church) factor into your decision to vote for him? To be sure, Christianity has some kooky claims and anyone that has read my posts in the past will know I am a non-believer. But, Mormonism is VERIFIABLY batshit crazy. For example, they believe:

        N. American Indians are the “lost tribe” of Jews.

        God exists (in real, physical form) on the planet Kolob

        Magic undergarments will protect you from bullets, fire.

        Joseph Smith, a documented and convicted con man, was given golden tablets, hidden in upstate New York, that had the word of god on it that only he could translate.

        And that’s just the few “here and now” beliefs, to say nothing of their views on black people, how Satan is the brother of Jesus, their original views on polygamy (which they only let go of for Utah statehood), baptism of the dead, etc.

        I know many of you here are believers and Christians. I would really like to know how you “square” Romney’s beliefs in Mormonism with your own and come out the other side in favor of him. Do you just ignore the differences? He’s a “believer” of some sort and that’s enough? He’s Republican and that’s enough?

        Heel standing by…

        • Regardless of the fact Romney is a Mormon at least he wouldn’t:

          allow Americans to die on foreign soil
          apologize to countries that hate us
          bow to foreign leaders
          give aid to the Muslim Brotherhood
          allow terrorists to visit the White House
          take away our guns
          lie about everything every time he opens his mouth

          • Barn Cat,

            In a serious and non-sarcastic tone, I ask you, how do you know he would not do all these things? Because of what he “says” he would have done HAD he become president? You know (I hope) as well as I do that campaign promises are written on toilet paper. Wiped and flushed the second power is assumed.

            I am not saying he absolutely, 100%, would have not done all these things, but had he won and actually fulfilled every campaign promise, well then he truly would have been unique and a first among presidents. Look at Obama, look at Bush Jr., and the most famous of all, Bush Sr., with his “Read my lips, no new taxes” promise.

            Assuming you are a believer (can’t quite tell from your response), could you please answer my question? How is it that you square his Mormon beliefs with your own?

        • Heel, it’s a great, very thought-provoking question. as you note, just about every religion has an element (or two, or more) of batshit crazy in it, from a resurrected sky god ( in which I believe) to Valkyries to an elephant headed god.

          Mormons, to the extent they are batshit crazy, are at least OUR batshit crazy, as homegrown Americans. I kind of see their secret magic underwear as a form of modern day Gnosticism (one reason why there were so many arguments, councils and creeds in the early Christian church, as you always have the weirdo trying to insert the Secret Magic Underwear clause). Most of their beliefs are mostly harmless, especially since they got rid of the polygamy shenanigans.

          Another strong point in their favor is, of all the Mormons I have known, every one has been a profoundly decent and moral person. They reflect creditably on their religion.

          So, between those two points, I was obviously okay enough to vote for him. Not a terribly big fan, but he strikes me as a decent man, fundamentally, classy and not a whiner. A hard worker, even if he is not working with his hands.

          Probably not the greatest response from a coherent philosophical perspective, but you were looking for an honest answer.

          Now back to the magic underwear…anyone think it would be a good substitute for Kevlar chainsaw chaps or body armor? And where can I get me a pair? 🙂

          • Mama Bear,

            Thank you, so much, for a well explained and thought-out answer that wasn’t knee-jerk and canned.

            I can see how your beliefs and “substitutions” (underwear vs. Gnosticism) could make things “not perfect but okay” with you.

            I will concede and agree with you that all the Mormons I have known (I grew up in Boise, ID., aka little SLC), are decent, clean-cut, hardworking and generally agreeable people. There is a definite “line” they do not cross, especially when it comes to mingling (dating, marrying, etc) with non-Mormons, and the whole caffeine & alcohol thing, but as you say, that’s rather harmless.

            Thanks for the response, I appreciate it 🙂


            • Achilles: Being Mormon my whole life, here’s a few things:

              1. There is no line drawn about marrying non-Mormons — there are relatively few Mormons in comparison to population east of the Mississippi and yes, my husband is a non-Mormon…a totally amazing, wonderful man, and the Mormons who I interact with and who visit my house have never said a word about it. We have friends from all walks of life.

              2. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Mormons who drink caffeine in some form or another — it is just that there is what is called the “Word of Wisdom” — which was light years ahead of its time with its “eat meat sparingly” (which medical doctors now recommend), “don’t smoke” (which medical doctors now recommend), “don’t drink” (had more to do with people mistreating their families because of drunkeness), etc.

              Mormons can’t get baptized into the religion and cannot go to the temples if they don’t obey the Word of Wisdom, among other rules. However, if you break the Word of Wisdom after becoming Mormon, they certainly don’t toss you out…it’s a personal choice with personal consequences.

              3. That leads me to Mormon temples and what you call “magic undergarments.” These have to do with covenants (promises to God) and the Mormon temples, including modesty. You can’t wear skimpy clothing and still wear these garments. However, Mormons who have not had those temple covenants do not wear those undergarments.

              4. Baptism for the dead? What harm does that do? Pascal’s Wager comes to mind. If baptism is a requirement and if someone who has lived has never had that opportunity, would God disqualify that person from external life? Where would the justice be in that? Hence, the baptism for the dead ….logical and practical. It is believed that they will still get to chose whether to accept the gift or not. People’s personalities don’t change once they die…so if you would accept in this life, more than likely you would accept in the next. Conversely, if you would reject in this life, more than likely you would reject in the next.

              4. If you wish to read the Book of Mormon and then explain to me how a man in the early 1800s (and there’s been many a folk who have been framed and convicted falsely) could come up with that syntax and prose and that required level of education to produce such a book at such a tender age, it would be an interesting conversation.

              5. Personally, I have no idea WHERE God exists — I just know that he does.

              The main draw for me is the emphasis on family…family is everything…in this life and the next.

              See, not THAT batshit crazy…LOL

              Now, in return, can you answer me a question? When people have near-death experiences, why do they never talk about seeing people who are currently living, only people who have died before them? (and please don’t try that “oh, it’s a chemical reaction” excuse..LOL).


              • uh-huh,

                Thank you for the well thought out and written response to what I have said about Mormonism. I will try and summarize my responses by your bullet points –

                1) I agree that there is no “drawn line” about marrying non-Mormons. But, you marrying outside the faith is the exception rather than the rule. Does your husband not have to know your “celestial name” in order to rise you from the dead? Will you now not spend eternity together in your private celestial planet because he is not Mormon? I applaud you for broadening your marital horizons, but I think you have had to sacrifice a rather large portion of Mormonism’s afterlife offerings.

                2) I am not sure if you yourself drink caffeinated drinks, but it seems rather ridiculous that it is even a requirement, and it seems rather convenient that AFTER you are in the church, THEN you can break the rules, IF you are prepared to suffer the consequences.

                3) You didn’t refute the existence of the undergarments, and didn’t comment on the belief that they are fire and bullet-proof.

                4) What “harm” in the physical sense does it do? Very little, I grant you. I think it extremely disrespectful however, and were the families of the dead aware the church were doing it, I am SURE they would have a thing or two to say about it. Pope John Paul II (Catholic), Anne Frank (Jew), Gandhi (Hindi), Princess Diana (Church of England) and last but not least, Hitler (Catholic), have all been baptized, “endowed” and “sealed.” Rather presumptuous, don’t you think, that these people who were VERY clearly NOT Mormon are baptized?

                4(second one)) How is it that he was able to come up with 17th century syntax and prose? Simple. He didn’t. He stuck his head in his hat with the “seer stone,” not even having the golden tablets in his possession, and his mumblings and scribblings were translated (by those who DID have the syntax and prose education), re-translated and not written down until it was “right.” Check this link out, it explains it better than I can:

                5) “I don’t know how, I just know.” Ok, well, personally and subjectively that can work, but I hope you see how that can never stand up to objective scrutiny as any measure of “proof.”

                Yes, yes I know, family is everything to Mormons. I heard that over and over, ad infinitum when I was growing up in Boise. It’s not a “bad” thing I grant you, but I do think it helps to contribute to the Mormon hive-mind and insulates against other points of view.

                In answering your question, I was not aware that people in near-death experiences only saw those previously dead. Could you link some info on this? If true, could it be simply their subconscious? There are people in their mind who are “known dead” that they have tagged subconsciously as “will see in the afterlife” and, similar to when you dream at night about events that happened that day, they “work themselves out.”

                As an aside to my response, do you not think it weird that people only have near-death experiences that resemble their own faith’s teachings? I mean, I have not heard of a Catholic having a Hindu near-death experience, seeing Vishnu across the river Ganges, or a Sikh having a Catholic near-death experience, seeing Peter at the pearly gates.

                Heel out.

        • As South Park once said…


        • Heel:
          The problem the Republicans faced n electing a candidate is the same one they face every 4 years. Who has the MONEY to compete with the Obama machine. This year Romney was the only one with the money to compete with Obama. Now, yes i agree with you that Mormonism is a bit odd but then again in the USA we are supposed to look past religion when we evaluate candidates.
          At any rate,I thought Romeny was the lesser of two evils. But the people have spoken.


      20. Mac,…the definition of a recession is Two consecutive quarters of negative growth!The definition of a depression is four or more quarters of negative growth! This has now gone on for 17 consecutive quarters since the engineered collapse of 2008!Our economy has been on the ropes since 2000 Hence, this is why “Busch 43” issued Stimulis checks! A Healthy Economy Doesnt need to be Stimulated! Doesnt anybody rememberwhat our G.D.P. was pre-911? Why cant the Fed be honest with us and Say…”Were heading into a Double Dip Depression!”….Be prepared and may god bless,…Steve!

      21. Just got my truck out of the paint shop. I had them paint EVERYTHING, except the headlights, black. Partly as a sign of mourning. And partly because I have now become….. Stealth Trucker!
        I will ride the highways and byways of America righting wrongs and protecting the innocent. Or at least hauling some freight. That other part might have to wait a bit.
        So, if you pass a weigh station and there’s a middle-aged man in a cape, standing there arguing with the DOT guys, …honk! That’ll be me!
        Also, I am now taking applications for the position of Stealth Trucker’s sidekick. Applicants must be free to travel, willing to risk life and limb for ridiculously low pay, and have their own cape. Bilingual (english/okie english) is a plus.

        • SmokinOkie: Hear you made a good little chunk of change on the stock you own in the white wash paint company that the MSM used before the elections. YOU THE MAN.

        • you need underdog!!!

      22. @ copperhead and anyone else. This is important. The Caribbean plate again had a major earthquake, the third 7+ in a few weeks, and other 6.5+ in the area. This affects the New Madrid fault, and what I as well as others need to know is any unusual USGS activity around the fault zone. WHEN the eastern portion of the Caribbean plate goes, it will of course send a big tsunami towards the Gulf Of Mexico and the Atlantic coastal cities. The New Madrid fault is in direct line when this section of the Caribbean fault goes. USGS should be in full force around the New Madrid now after this very large earthquake.

        • BI: Will keep you in touch of any activity that I hear about.
          My worst fear is the eastern side of the Caribbean goes sending a Tsunami to the east coast and the gulf and the NEW MADRID goes at the same time. If that happens, may GOD help us all.
          A domino effect just could result.

        • Be Informed, copperhead, and others –
          Thanks for keeping your eyes on this. I appreciate your work, and your wisdom, more than I can say.

        • Thank you @ Be informed!!
          Wish there was an easy way to follow your posts…
          I just keep checking here for your posts because you are the only resource that puts this all together!!
          Thanks again!

        • @Be Informed. Thank you! Your work has really opened my eyes to what is going on under our feet. When the Eastern Carabean plate goes, any chance the Bahama Islands will help sheild South Florida coastline…Fort Lauderdale to be exact? Not that we deserve it 🙂

        • Thanks so much BI! Have talked to DH about you, and he also fully believes there is something to your theories. We remain watchful…

      23. Ferfal has a great post up today. Titled just “HIM”.

      24. FEDS : 100% CHANCE ?! HAHAHAHAH, We have been IN THE DAMN RECESSION !

        I am part of the market sell off today. Last investments pulled out. Big Duke (the dog) gets new beds, more preps purchased and ordered.

        Took the TV to the dump.

        Spent the rest on beer.

        • Get some good shades too………

        • Well, when something one is predicting has happened, then it IS a 100% chance, isn’t it? Such as: “I predict the economy will not recover by 2012!” There is now a 100% chance of this prediction coming true.

      25. As we are all one with each other and this planet I welcome what is coming as it is the only way to survive. It is time for balance to be restored. When I die I hope to be reincarnated as a virus that wipes out the human race so that more worthy forms of life may have a chance to live.

      26. i believe a flat tax of 15% across the board on everyone 100% of the population,so everyone has skin in the game.Its time the takers have their say not only in voting , but accepting responsibility for running the country.

        • But that would hurt the working pooooooorrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

        • That would completely kill me right now…..

      27. Their gonna put me in the movies.
        Thier gonna made a big star out of me.
        And I don’t care, cause I don’t need rehearsing.
        Cause all I gotta do is, act naturally

        I’ll bet you I’m gonna be a big star.
        Might win an oscar, you can never tell.
        The movies gonna make me a big star
        Cause I can play the part so well.

        Well I hope you come and see me in the movies.
        Then I know you will plainly see.
        The biggest fool whoever hit the big time.
        And all I have to do is, act naturally.

        Obama at the teleprompter.

        • You gotta love Buck!

      28. Mayor: Thanks to you, the city is overrun with baboons.
        Officer Drebin: Is that not the fault of the voters?

      29. Dow down…yep…Big defense contractors are taking a hit because neocon warmonger Romney wasn’t selected.Health care stocks up because welfare entitlement king Obama was selected. meh….not everyone can suck the corp gov teat at the same time.

        • “neocon warmonger Romney wasn’t selected.”

          Aside from the fact you have 0 evidence Romney is a warmonger, apparently you’re so stupid that you have no clue that democrats have gotten this country in FAR MORE wars than republicans ever did.

          • 17 of 24 of Romney advisors were from the Bush era. Look these guys up. Michael Chertoff, Cofer Black, Michael Hayden, John Bolton. 8 advisors participated in the Project for a New American Century(PNAC). Oh yea, forgot to mention Glenn Hubbard, Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors. Do you think this guys advised Bush not to invade Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe they changed their policies when they became part of the Romney team.

      30. So basically…We have not gotten out of a depression since it started. And now, with the index hitting 20+% we are about to enter an even deeper depression?

        • Yeah, I’d say you’ve summarized it pretty neatly.

      31. On a serious note-

        Keep your eyes open for the next wave…and the next. Certainly, there’ll be lots of bad economic news. And dire predictions of even worse to come. None of it will be blamed on the Annointed One, or his marxist policies.
        But that’s not all. Watch for Israel’s possible move against Iran, especially now that the entire world knows that Israel is ALONE for at least 4 more yrs.
        And the possibility of more violence and dire situations (supposedly) requiring US military intervention. Along with the need, potentially, to import hundreds of thousands of “refugees” into western countries. Eventually, it’ll be millions. The new immigrants may be from Africa, Asia, eastern Europe or the middle east. Who knows? What is sure, is that they will be highly inclined to follow the big-government ideology. Most likely, they’ll bring that mindset with them. What they won’t have, is an understanding or appreciation of traditional American (western) values. I’m talking about the group as a whole, not individual members.
        The refugees will be brought in under the guise of ‘humanitarianism.’ The main purpose, really, is to shore up and solidify a permanent voting block to keep the US on a marxist trajectory. Vast numbers of compassionate people, including many churches, will be unwittingly importing the last of the nails for the coffin of their own culture and religion.
        The newcomers will not be ‘assimilated.’ They will CHANGE the culture of the host nation. The sheer numbers of the refugees will finalize the shift in the balance of power. The traditional cultures of the affected nations will no longer have the ABILITY to perpetuate their own culture much longer.
        Also, look for more catastrophic natural disasters. Be Informed, and others, have done a tremendous job forcasting some of these potential disasters. When the next one occurs, the national response will be much like Katrina and Sandy. Those are the models for the new normal in America.
        I wrote only briefly on some topics here, not because they are less likely to happen, but mainly because others have covered them more thoroughly(and much better) than I could. And, as everybody here knows, I certainly am no prophet. Exactly what will happen, and when, I don’t know. I only know what is ‘Likely’ to be headed our way.
        Now, let’s review. What’s coming is:
        1- Increasingly bad economic news. Never blamed on big gov or wall street fraud, but calling for more of the same, only in larger doses.
        2- Israel’s action to prevent her neighbors from destroying her.
        3- Violence, and military response both large and small in almost ANY part of the world.
        4- A new flood of refugees into N America, western Europe and elsewhere. Thus accelerating the demise of western culture.
        5- Natural disasters, some of which may lead to even more of 1, 3 and 4.

        I realize this is a depressing comment to post. What can be done to stop, or even slow, this tidal wave of misery? I don’t have the time, or space, or even the knowledge to adequately answer that here. But I encourage every one of you to respond. Not with a flippant attitude or a short, unworkable reaction given only out of anger (believe me, I am as angry as any of you) but with a well thought out response to what we can do. Individually and together.
        This comment is NOT just about the re-election of Obama. In fact, that isn’t the top of the list for me. It’s about the general direction of the people in this country. I genuinely love my country. And I’ve met people from every state and from around the world. And I’ve come to respect and love most of them. Really. I do love America. And I Have great respect for western culture. But I’m angry. I am angry at the ignorance and selfishness of so many millions of my fellow citizens. I am NOT bitter. But I’m dissappointed. And I’m pissed.
        For now, I gotta go drive this truck a few hundred more miles today. But I’ll be back. And I will listen….

        • I don’t think there is an easy solution. Anything done to right this ship we call “America” will require hardship and suffering from all of us. There can be no free rides. That being said, I think that nothing short of culling the herd from the top down is required. Voting doesn’t work. Anyone that truly speaks to the problems faced today is marginalized. We have no leaders that will bite the bullet and do what is best for the common man. Greed is the word of the day. Usury is the cause of human suffering.I’m of the mind that no peaceful solution is possible. The ones at the top will not go willingly. They are corrupt. I’m sure this is not a solution we want but I don’t see any way out.We could refuse to participate as much as we can, but I think they will make that impossible as time goes on. Inevitably, I think things will only be solved by conflict and the liberal use of a rope.

          • JRS
            I like: “refuse to participate.” Working taxpayers footing everyone’s bills need to withdraw our resources from general consumption: don’t buy anything you don’t absolutely need, make/grow your own food, make your own clothes, shop thrift stores and garage sales, make your own entertainment, use your preps, harden your dwelling, practice defense activities, save your money. Although addicted to consumption, you CAN deprogram yourself !! You will be shocked to see how much money you can begin to save.

            THEN, let the economy function with nothing but the SNAPers. Our spending less sucks sales tax from the system, profits from corps, stimulus from business.
            This will happen anyway as working taxpayers get taxed to DEATH: you cannot ameliorate this process. Don’t feed the beast that is sucking your lifeblood out of you.
            You must begin practicing this now because restrictions, oppression, metastatic government are forming now such that we “can neither buy nor sell” in the future.

            Let America lay in the bed she has made for herself- let the indolent SNAPers eviscerate their host with their gaping maws and then STARVE.

      32. The sun came up this morning, I played my guitar for an hour, had a cup of coffee. The only thing different today is that the election is over and 47% has a shit eating grim. Their grin will go away. As for the market, the election has given investors a direction and they’re realigning their portfolios, so don’t read too much into it. Wait until there’s a trend.

        I started a Mom and Pop Tool and Die business in 2001. We’ve (my wife and I) been in recession ever since. We’ve learned to live within our budget, be frugal, plan ahead and still live a rich life fill with family, good times and good friends. We’ve learned not to get excited about good or bad news, one follows the other then the cycle repeats. My self worth isn’t defined by politics.

      33. Prepare for the crash; you can make it through.

      34. Don’t be discouraged. Prepare for the crash; you can make it through.

      35. “Well, at least it ain’t 110% chance.” — Stupid American

      36. To Be Informed – hear this?
        A 4.2-magnitude earthquake has struck in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Oregon and California.
        The U.S. Geological Survey says the quake struck early Wednesday roughly 140 miles west of Gold Beach, Ore., just north of the California border.
        The sheriff’s office in Curry County says there are no immediate reports of shaking or damage.

      37. Been in a funk since 4a.m. when I found out sambo was re-elected.Preps and training just went into overdrive.We’re gonna work as hard as we can till the collapse.WE’re all here at this point in our country’s history for a reason,just as our ancestors in the first revolutionary war. MAN THIS GONNA BE A HELL OF A RIDE.

        • Pinball
          I am with you. Where did FIVE thumbs down come from???

      38. BI: Rumors at USGS (rumors) say they are looking at a moderate quake in the WVSZ before the end of the month, as a precursor to one on the NEW MADRID. Like was said thats the buzz, I don’t know any more than that.
        Anything more and you will hear it when and if I get more.

      39. I don’t need charts and financial experts to tell me what our economy is doing. Just look around. Recession then depression then total collapse. A present to his country by our dear president, Oboma.

      40. Less than 120 million Americans voted. Where were the 100 million American gun owners who will be pissing n’ moaning when O’bummer starts passing gun laws?

        If O’Bummer thought 2010 was a wake up call, wait until 2014!!!

      41. got some more of the new currency (22lr) today…better stock up

      42. To the employed it is a Recession, To the unenployed it is a Depression!!!


        Dr. Pepper

      43. American Dream ~ Poor or Prison

        • Satori: You are quite right; unless of course you create a business and hire those part time workers.

          When the going gets tough ….

      44. i’ve coined a term that i haven’t heard anyone use concerning the never ending quantitative easing…. ”
        QE ternity” feel free to use it.

      45. And you are not prepping? Sheesh!!

      46. Middle what life huh now?

        Isn’t it time we got over that myth?

        It’s dead. It’s been dead. You’re lugging around a corpse.

      47. the future ain’t that bright
        ya ain’t gonna need shades


        Barack Obama and America’s decline

        there is a fundamental change happening
        and it isn’t good
        may very well be irreversible

        “Nearly a third of Americans now depend on food stamps, welfare, disability payments, or some other form of government support, compared with one out of five when George W Bush left office. This enormous shift has occurred before the detonation of a demographic time bomb that will explode towards the end of the present decade, and which will push America towards even greater dependency. This time bomb has four facets:
        The baby boomers will retire, and the percentage of Americans over 60 will jump from a sixth to a quarter of the total population in little more than a decade;
        The population that replaces the baby boomers will come to an increasing extent from families with the lowest level of educational attainment;
        A new underclass is in formation due to the jump in the rate of births out of wedlock, which comprised two-fifths of total births in 2011;
        Dependency on government support will rise sharply just as the federal government’s capacity to finance the dependent population will fall”




        WEIMAR GERMANY 1919 TO 1923

        It’s why Obama passed the NDAA..the “Lock your ass up without trial” exec. order.

        I predict within ten years, a currency collapse and massive civil unrest.

        What to do…?
        Shelter in place or get a bugout location.

        Plan for your country retirement away from the cities…deep in the country away from all the city scum that will kill you for a cigarette.

        good luck.

        ps. Obama’s new mission is to destroy the currency.
        Any fool can see this coming.

      49. The meek shall inherit the Gulag.

      50. What a difference a day makes. The economy went from salvation to sinking in 24 hours.

      51. If one day makes a different, then what does anyone think about the fact that on day two Iran attacked the US Air Force Predetor Drone in the Persian Gulf? Our election is over our politics are stable and the world thinks that it can attack us at will without a response. Oh that’s right they can because, our “Dear Leader” is the greatest coward in American History.

        Why is every decision made in Washington D.C. intentionally harming Americans?

        • Har har ‘attacked’ my butt. Iran shot at but deliberately MISSED the drone that was deliberately inserted into their neighborhood to annoy and bait them. It is Iran who has shown restraint. The United States is running up and down the beach kicking sand in everyone’s face. This is military brinksmanship and so far the mental maturity score is: Iran 1, United States 0.

        • It was not a US Air Force drone. It was the Globalist Air Force. It was in Irans back yard. I’d have shot at it also.

      52. Why is the overall tone about “them” and what “they” do or don’t do ???  Y’all sound like a bunch of pansy socialists !  The marketplace, right down to the individual, has the ability to monetize and circulate debt-free bullion to support much needed and much appreciated liquidity.  That debt-free “greasing of the economic wheels” allows for economic activity with no added debt. That added debt-free liquidity also allows for existing debt based currency (fiat) to be drawn off by freeing it up and allowing it to organically find the hands that need it to service existing fiat based debt and have it removed. Gone… not redistributed but gone right back to the nothingness it was created from. Gresham’s law, at it has pertained to gold monetary systems of the past only created bullion hoarding because of FIXED bullion values, giving people an incentive to “hold on” in their wait for a better day and better value. Gresham’s law is beginning to move in reverse as it pertains to gold. Let’s start talking about US and not about them.

        Gold is money (and silver), highly liquid money now that it trades in real-time.

      53. Ignorance is bliss y’all.  Blame liberals for the recessions.  Blame Obama for trying to bring humanity back to health insurance rather than profit over human life.  Be self righteous to think that God is for you…and not “them”…that for some reason…you know it all.  Most of you have never traveled outside of the US…but…God backs you…because…UR AMERICAN?!  The world is bigger than all of us…and until we can all see the common bond that God gave us…as people…who all want the same for us and our own (family-humanity) then the apocalypse probably will come.  Perhaps the S will HTF.  Because of ignorant egocentric/ethnocentric people like what I’ve been reading in these forums.  Sounds like most of you want the S to HTF.  You want hell on Earth.  You want chaos and destruction.  You want your self-fulfilled prophecies.  The US has been on a path of corruption due to profit without humanity for a long time now.  That is why I think the S will HTF.  Not because of uneducated moronic reasons like the crap I’ve been reading in these forums.  You are who you hang out with.  I’m a gun enthusiast who was curious on SHTF theories…but Jesus!  Please be with all these people here.  They really need your peace, wisdom, and guidance to soften their hearts and open their eyes to what is really happening in this world.  Versus their bubbles they choose to see and live.

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