From the very beginning, mainstream media and government officials have down-played the economic crisis. In 2007, when the crisis started in the midst of the Presidential election, John McCain and other republicans actually refused to talk about it. It was not until the banking and mortgage crisis became apparent in late 2008 that McCain called for a suspension of his Presidential campaign so that he and then candidate Obama could return to Washington to save the American economy. A crisis that had taken many years and tens of trillions of dollars in leverage to create would be resolved, if you believed Congress, within a matter of a couple weeks through the passage of an $800 billion dollar “bailout.”
It was serious enough for Congressman Brad Sherman to tell us Congress had been warned about the possibility of martial law and tanks in the streets, but not serious enough to warrant any significant changes to how regulatory agencies investigate financial fraud or legislation that would make it easier for Americans to start and grow their businesses. Backed by 24 by 7 media propaganda, the crisis was quickly marginalized and within few months the stock market came roaring back.
The nomenclature used by the best and brightest on Wall Street and in the fourth estate has attempted, from the get go, to coerce Americans into believing that things on Wall Street and Main Street were business as usual. While alternative media and contrarian economists warned Americans about impending doom in financial markets, the economy and geo-political happenings around the world, media pundits downplayed the possibility, referring to it only as a “double dip.” This, of course, conjures up images from our childhood. A double dip isn’t all that bad – it can’t be bad – it usually comes with whip cream and a cherry on top.
They – meaning the state sponsored media machine – is very adept at the language they use, how they use it, and how often they repeat it. It’s so effective, that 80% of Americans have no clue that the United States is insolvent and on the brink of bankruptcy, that nearly one in five Americans are out of work, and that the negative economic feedback loop is in full swing. And of those that do have a clue, the majority believe it’s a temporary misstep soon to be resolved by policies of borrow and spend.
It’s just a double dip. Close your eyes, take a bite, enjoy the creamy sweetness. Everything’s yummy and it’ll all be okay – you’ll see.
This from the same people who in 2007 had not an inkling that the economy was about to fall into the worst recession in nearly a hundred years.
Those very same people who didn’t see it coming, refused to explain what was really happening after it came, and continue to act shocked and surprised as the economic and fiscal situation in the U.S. deteriorates, will never give you the bad news – unless it suits their financial goals and power structure.
As we’ve highlighted for over two years now, things are most certainly not as they seem.
We’re literally tens of trillions of dollars deeper in the hole now than we were in 2007. There’s as much, if not more, leverage in the system today as there was then. Wall Street, it turns out, is now more corrupt than ever as failing institutions were merged with too-big-to-fails. There is no regulation to be had. There have been no significant criminal prosecutions. Main Street has gotten nothing but platitudes. And the worst of it is that the US government is enabling the entire thing. Double dip cones for everyone!
The reality is, that our economic system is not experiencing a double dip. Looking at the latest data, it should be clear that we have been double tapped, and we’re falling quickly into another recession within the Greatest Depression.
A quick breakdown of some key economic data points from the last two weeks should make in abundantly clear that the end of the party is nigh.
- Unemployment Is Rising: Economists expected the economy to create 150,000 jobs this month. We created 40,000 fewer jobs than expected for a whopping 9.1% U-3 unemployment rate. Counting discouraged and part-time workers looking for full time work, we’re at about 17%. Then, of course, there’s the matter of the folks who have fallen off the unemployment rolls. They number in the millions, but they don’t count anymore – apparently they’re enjoying double dips at the local ice cream shop. Incidentally, in response to today’s report of a 9.1% unemployment rate, the White House’s chief economist said that these are just “bumps on the road to recovery.” So, now that we are back in the double dip, we can expect the marketing message to change – it’s just a bump.
- Housing is Toast: It’s happening just as we forecast two years ago. The second wave is in full effect and no $8,000 new buyer tax credit is going to stop it. A 3.6% drop year over year, and we can expect, at a minimum, another 20% from here. We’ve said it before, and we’ll say it again, from top to bottom this real estate market will see declines of between 50% to 75%. It’s a long way to go before real estate stabilizes in real value terms (Fed printing might keep prices seemingly within the range of where they were in the mid 2000’s, but that means the cost of everything else will be rising as well, significantly outpacing the housing market).
- Greece, beware of EU member who bear gifts: Europe is a disaster. It may not seem important to us here in the US, and our leading economists certainly rarely, if ever, mention it. But it is important to note that one of the key reasons for why the Great Depression of the 1930’s happened was because of European defaults. Guess what? It will happen again. Less than a year ago they told us Greece had to be saved- and that they had a plan. The EU and IMF would lend them a bunch of money that they couldn’t pay back, and that would resolve the problem. Woops – it turns out that borrow and spend didn’t work so good for Greece. They’re in serious trouble again, their bonds are collapsing, and they are in more debt now than last year. New plan: lend them more money, and this time, double dips for everyone!
- Consumer’s Aren’t So Confident Anymore: What is America without a confident consumer base? In a depression, that’s what. And right now, our consumer confidence numbers are collapsing. It might have something to do with the weather, as is often claimed by mainstream media. It’s the heat. It’s the snow. It’s the tornadoes. Or maybe, just maybe, it’s that everyone is broke, the banks aren’t lending to consumers (unless you’re going to college) and people are terrified that next week they’re going to get a pink slip. We’ll let out astute readers make up their own minds on this one.
- Manufacturing is collapsing: Turns out that when consumers stop buying stuff, the people who produce that stuff don’t get orders from the companies that sell it. The end result is collapsing manufacturing sector, which is exactly what we saw happen earlier this week with the ISM manufacturing index.
- Food Stamps For Everyone! Putting all other economic indicators aside, you can look to the food stamp participation rate to get a real idea of what this crisis feels like on Main Street. 44.2 million people require assistance from the government to eat. To eat! We’ve projected this is going to 50 million within another 12 to 18 months. Now we’re learning that Congress may actually be looking to cut food stamp programs. Bad news considering that commodity prices will continue to rise over coming years, effectively reducing those food stamp benefits through dollar depreciation. Riots in the streets won’t be far behind.
We leave it to our readers to believe what they will about the current state of our economy. But we have a hard time believing this is anything but a further decline on our way to complete economic collapse.
We can expect, of course, that as soon as stock markets respond with declines, The Federal Reserve will begin the next phase in the destruction of the US dollar. Treasury will spend even more money to prevent tanks on the streets of America. Mainstream media will tell us that even if there is a depression there are effective pharmaceuticals that can help. And, President Obama will play another round of golf and give us his top picks for the upcoming NFL season.
It’s all good. Take the kids to Disneyland. Borrow money to get there from anyone who’ll lend it to you if necessary. And most importantly – don’t forget to enjoy a yummy ice cream cone – double dip if you’ve got the cash to cover it.
This is good material.
Thanks!
USA will NOT collapse. All that is happening is that consumers want cheap goods, so manufacturing went to China & that cost USA jobs. If the US government taxed Chinese goods more than USA made goods, then China will lose out & the USA will gain.
smith p, you sound like you want a return of, “…the corrupt system of British Mercantilism… the very system that the Revolution was fought in opposition to…” – from The Real Jefferson
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo196.html
Here’s a better option:
Buy American? Sell American!
“People often say that tariffs are “taxes,” but another way to look at it is that protectionism is price control. So, instead of controlling prices to make foreign products less affordable, why not control them to make domestic ones more affordable? In another words, instead of forcing our country’s consumers to “buy America,” i.e., pay higher prices, why not force its companies to sell American, i.e., charge lower ones? That’s how you fight “cheap imports” – with cheaper domestics, not expensive ones…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/loberfeld7.html
That’s a brillant idea, Clark! Absolutely brillant! Did you learn that at Lou Rockwall?
Make US companies sell products cheaper than the Chinese can: which means then, that we pay American workers 30 cents an hour to undercut the Chinese worker. Simply brillant! Lets send this brillant economic proposal to the White House!
How about we eliminate the personal income tax instead and make the goberment operate on tariffs like it is suppose too?
Lets tax the shit out of Chinese goods and eliminate the balance of trade deficit instead!
When you say, “Lets tax the shit out of Chinese goods and eliminate the balance of trade deficit instead!” What you’re really saying is, lets raise prices in the U.S.
How is rising prices a good thing? Do you think anyone outside your Keynesian world welcomes and wants higher prices?
BO “the man child” gets the ice cream while pretending to have nuts. He’s still a new president so he gets a cherry from the msm. Notice the vanilla middle class, he’ll eat that first and the chocolate bottom last. The rest of the sheep are getting the double tap while playing The Game of Life at the slaughter house.
FUBAR’d…that is all.
I saw this back in March 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wA8TovXAw
If the link don’t work search,,,,glenn beck worst case scenario with gerald celente pt 1/4 on youtube,,,.
Discusses a very possible future for this country. Exactly what Mac has been warning us would happen.
Gear Up & Good Luck
Dont listen to any craps gerald Celente have said about what will happen in the near future. Hes a hard-core Liberal.
Life isn’t all bad, I think Barry is headed on another excellent adventure. He’s worked 4 days straight and needs some more time off!!
Bush played guitar and golf while katrina sank and flooded, this all started with bush and his two false wars for oil and opium, O cant stop what the repukes started, the shit is now picking up speed on the downhill run to the bottom.
You voted for him right? If I “was” you I wouldn’t admit it either. Bush never played guitar and refused to play golf while his troops were in war. You didn’t hear about any looting other than New Orleans. Liberals hate me. “Isn’t it GREAT”! I win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GC, could you spell check me?
He doesn’t want to stop what the others started, they are all on the same side….you are watching theatre, WWF style when watching politicians in the political arena….it’s all fake, actually the facade they put on when they tell you what they are wanting to do is fake…..their actual activities are very real and very evil
Thank you BJ. I have faith again in you.
If I were your parents I’d slap you for being so stupid. You may want to study history before you come here and write something stupid again. Then again, you can’t see much from your parents basement.
If anyone honestly believes that our economy and the world ecomomy ia getting better and that the situation is actually improving ……. then please immediately send me a great big baggie of whatever it is that you are smoking!!! It’s obviously much better stuff than I am able to get my hands on!!!!!
You know that the economic end is near when you see a proliferation of the following types of businesses:
1. Pawn Shops.
2. Payday Advance Loan shops.
3. Check Cashing stores, for those who don’t have the financial stability to have a bank account.
4. Shops that advertise a desire to buy your unwanted/broken gold/silver jewlery (usually for pennies on the $).
5. Used car lots advertising that they will finance your purchase of a ‘clunker’ from them at a high interest rate.
QEII is supposed to end this month; it won’t. I can’t personally see the United States existing in its current format much beyond the end of this summer.
Please examine your preparations and take care of any last minute acquisitions that you require. It won’t be pretty, it won’t be pleasant and it won’t be fun. The last place that you want to be is out in the streets with the idiots looking for supplies.
God Bless & good luck to all.
good eye, mad markie
hertosexual, non sex having idiot, not just liberals but conserabots hate you too, religious loons hate you too. You voted for him, I dont vote, voting is a sham to give you the illusion you have a choice, your own mother hates you, the worst part of you, is in your non thinking brain.
Somebody needs a hug!!!!
How old are you….12?
i hate everyone!
I can accept that! I like black forest gummy bears & milk duds anyway.
James Harness is gone. 6’7″
Im sorry, but if you didn’t vote than you have no right at all to complain about our government.
Not so fast, anonymous at 9:54 a.m.
“…”if you vote, you have no right to complain” – a point which politicians, in their attempt to push their civic religion upon you, fail to mention…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/gregg3.html
It better not collapse; We have a stack of I bonds and muni bonds that are paying interest. These check cashing places charging a reasonable fee are ok, but so called title pawn loan, payday loan outfits (loan sharks) need to be shut down for ripping off the poor. Checks can be cashed at the bank of the employer that issued them the check, or open a small checking account.
It’s gonna get ugly.
http://therisingriver.tumblr.com/post/6141999874/the-bad-news-is-finally-trickling-down-to-the
p smith a shill, a Liar, his mother a whore.
This goes WAY beyond republicrats or demicans. As long as you see it as a repub problem, or something Bush started, you don’t have a very big view of the problem. That’s understandable if you just got interested in politics and national events in the last couple yrs. But if so, you got a lot of catching up to do. Arguing one party or one prez against another is like 2 guys in front of a firing squad arguing over who gets which blindfold. OPEN YOUR EYES! Get away from the firing squad, get prepped as best you can, and be prepared to fight the real oppressors. Time is short, but if you hurry, you may be able to catch up enough to survive!
How many of the guys in the firing squad get bullets? Is it just one or all but one?
It’s a French firing squad. They have no live ammo at all, but they will throw a 2 day old croissant at you! Duck!!
I have armor plated underwear and a bottle of Heinz for the good guy.
Aflac!!!
The mainstream media is all abuzz about the economy (finally). There are articles all over the place – ABC, MSNBC, Yahoo, CNBC, etc. The community organizer has been able to stop them until now. Finally freedom of the press rears its head.
Maybe it will scare a few more people into preparing (but not enough to set off the inevitable panic).
GA Mom, The mainstream media is only doing that so they can beat their bony chests and say,”Look, we’ve been telling you this was coming…..”. Ah…Yeah, right!
It was 54,000 jobs added in May, not “40,000 fewer” than 150,000.
Expand on your thinking? #1 is saying we got hit by a Mac truck. More like a 1,000 trains…
i think that this is your best piece yet, mac!
Great article Mac.
From my business point of view I peg the housing collapse to August 2006. That’s when all my contractors started to go out of business. Especially those in new construction.
Today as I look at Main Street 66% of those businesses are gone too. It seems there are only about 2 tenants per strip center and many strip centers sit completely empty. On YouTube just check out Econcat88 he has almost 200 videos of empty or see through strip centers and road to no where.
The economy has gotten so bad that now dentist and doctors are starting to go out of business. Many specialist are now going out of business because the General Practice Doctors and General Dentist are not referring business to the specialist.
Last week I was in St Pete. Beach and driving up the coast almost every other McMansion was vacant and for sale.
I have a message to the entitlement folks. We are quickly running out of Main Street rich people. You know the type,the guy you used to work for.
The takers are taking over. Which means we are very close to nothing left to take. Do they understand that Governments is not self supporting? That producing your food stamps and welfare checks is not the type of production that produces taxable wealth?
Production and out put is the key to an economic recovery. Every day, week, month and year I see less production then the period before.
America and the world are in a financial death spiral and personally I don’t see any way out other then collapse and rebuild.
As the businesses close and the band stops playing. I can hear the MSM and the administration saying, “all is well”
“America and the world are in a financial death spiral and personally I don’t see any way out other then collapse and rebuild.”
Will be an internal war while we are at war somewhere else.
I’m still surprised to see that people don’t get it. Some people think the U.S.A is so great that It can never fail, let alone fall. People, wake up. We have fallen. And if we continue to do nothing we will fail miserably. I don’t know what they put in the Kool-Aid but it worked.
“WAKE UP PEOPLE!” – JOIN THE REVOLUTION
Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )
FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM
We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”
“don’t know what they put in the Kool-Aid but it worked.”
It’s called Fluoride, but they didn’t stop at Kool-Aid, (which you can refuse) they’re thinking big, going right into water supplies. Oh yeah, and toothpaste.
Republicans and Democrats: Same shit different piles! We need a revolution of the people cause these two monsters are what got us where were at. I’m with gerald celente on being a political athiest. Government sucks on both sides of the political parties. Unfortunately its to late to save us from this mess, start preparing today if you already haven’t. Good luck everyone!
Right on about only loans available being for school. Wife and I are taking as many classes as we can in practical classes like welding and metalworking; Uncle Sam is footing the entire bill and giving us money from Obummer’s stash to cover all our living expenses. Any extra is going into building up our supply of food and preps. We have applied for and qualified for as many federal and state goodies as we can while the party lasts. I never thought I would be one of the drains on the system but the writing is on the wall and we are using every resource at our disposal to improve our situation when the S finally does HTF. In addition we are hastening that collapse by our actions to game the system. Screw the whole rotten system! All the money I paid in over my entire working life is lost and I will never see again. Those of you who are still trying to play straight and by the rules are fools. Nothing can avert collapse at this point so you too should be moving to secure as much of the remaining stash while you still can.
China has divested itself of 97% of short term US treasury bills. Now they have $5 billion left, down from $250 billion just 2 year ago.
Even THEY know the craps about to hit the fan over here.
The only good news from this is that they can’t come over here and claim “ownership”.
Here lately its really falling apart. Bad news all around. Strange and scary thing is this: June is the month of expansion!!! Patriot One, back me up here. Did your new contracts start rolling in in May and then by June 1st you couldn’t find enough workers to drive nails and slap mud, could you? Probably working and paying overtime and glad to do it by June.
This is a BAD, BAD omen, people: 1st of June and we’re seeing some of the most dismal econ reports ever. Whats going to happen in August when it starts going down? Thats what happened in ’08. Things were kinda flat in the spring and then in August, the stock market and econ plummet started. …only this time it will be even worse. The gooberment has shot its wad, spent its money, broke the bank and doesn’t have anything left. But, it will try and print money. Smell like hyperinflation (in staples) and hyperdeflation (for big ticket items like cars and houses). They won’t be able to sell anything because people will be too cash strapped spending it on food and gas to buy bigger stuff.
Better get that garden going good! …and learn how to can. If you can’t grow a garden, do this: buy excess at the height of the season from the farmers market. Corn, beans, tomatoes. Can like there’s no tomorrow. You’ll be glad you listened.
Anonymous: Fantastic catch phrase – Same Shit Different Piles. There’s a song title in there somewhere…
Remember, you need three guns: Shotgun (12ga), Pistol (9mm, 38, 45) and a rifle (Mini14, AR, AK, 30-30, 30-06, 223 something with some range) and 500 rounds of ammo for each. Sight them in. Learn to use them.
For more details on how to survive this mess, go to http://alt-market.com/component/myblog/blogger/George/
This was written by an old internet friend of mine and it rings true. Prep for the worst. Hope for the best and the 7Gs will see you through!
What contracts? We hardly see a dump truck or cement mixer on the road anymore. If you see one follow it. 9 times out of 10 it’s going to a government / union job. No more private sector.
Net Ranger,PatriotOne- Im a HVAC contractor. All the new construction in our area is practically gone. During the building boom, I still kept a robust service/repair sector while other competition focused soley on installs in the construction sector. Those guys are gone because their service customers were left unattended. The service side has also lessened, but it keeps me going. I too saw a concrete truck on a local road for the first time in months. Many, many builing contractor have either “gone out” or down to a one man opeation.
Trying to “enlighten” people of the economic situation is useless. If they are not already taking care of business on their own, they are not going to do anything until it is too late.
It will be somewhat amusing to watch the last minute panic if TV is still running, even though we all know what is coming next. I am especially amused by the people who think they will just become predators. In the wild, predators usually do not attack prey that can effectively fight back because it often does not work out well.
I tell you one thing.
With zero production capacity, little to none exports, 500% imports, 16% unemployment, the Greek stock market climbed almost 12% this week.
And the funiest of all is the optimistic idea that we are heading in the right direction.
Finally, the E.U. and the I.M.F. announced that Greece will get another bailout of around 65 billion.
This is your money people. You give money from your kids’future to save some banana country in the other corner of the planet.
So i will go with Celente who says about phantom money which is being printed out of thin air.
I believe Greece is the tip of the spear Manos. That 12% is falling up. Some moron on Boob tube this morning over here is saying DOW will be 20K this year. Could be right! Politics is stranger than Doctor Strangelove attending Jack Kevorkian’s post-mortem examination.
I do not have a love child until DNA is proven otherwise. No cam pain money was paid out during this blog. I am running on family values.
Due to hyperinflation your family values will cost a lot more. Please increase cam pain donations accordingly. And tell those Enquirer reporters to stop following me. Thank you. Your gubmint check is in the mail…
News flash, the SHTF in about 12-18m tops. They have the ability to continue to prop up this pig, especially until and up to the 2012 election. Irregardless of who gets to be prez 18m and it unravels completely. This mess would have happened the same under republicans as well. So nobody should think that one party or the other will make the 2trillion in cuts from the fed budget that are needed and layoff the 1 million useless govt workers we don’t need.
Bottom line it makes sense to prepare physically but even more so spiritually. This life is temporary, the next life after we pass is forever. Are you right with God and do you know the Lord is the biggest question.
I heard last night that what’s going on in Greece is a microcosm of what is going to happen here in Amerika
Don’t let it happen B.J. After 2 years of tough f…. we woke up. I don’t know if the silent protests will achieve anything at all. But as a friend told the crowd the other day, “if you don’t leave the couch you will never know if it could happen”.
But have faith to the American people. Allow me to remind you that all labor rights around the planet were gained in Chicago U.S. during and after the Pullman riots.
Not in some communist or socialist or even anarchist regime.
I like to read your posts about what is happening over there, but it is sad to see you’re not a Person in favor of property rights.
“American labor law is a dank miasma of special-interest legislation that tramples on the rights of some citizens in order to advance the interests of others. The main beneficiaries are labor-union officials who lobbied for and received extraordinary and unique powers from compliant politicians. The victims are business owners and workers who prefer to have nothing to do with unions…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/leef9.html
Mac, you left out the ultimate data point. If you want to know how the economy is *really* doing, look no further than the Army’s recruiting numbers. If they’re meeting or exceeding their goals, THERE IS NO RECOVERY. Obama has seen to it that about the only jobs available are as bullet-stoppers and TSA gropers, and no one is happier than the Pentagon. Recall the peak of the last economic cycle in 2005 — the Army missed its recruiting quota (despite lowered standards and massive recruiter misconduct) and stop-loss was rampant. Now we have the “depression draft,” and it operates at both the front and back doors. No need for recruiters to lie or cheat when young adults can’t find any other work, and no need for stop-loss when current soldiers can’t line up civilian jobs either. What better time to screw them over?
I am constantly amazed at the building going on here and in a neighboring city (Carlsbad, CA) from me. They are building huge houses like there is no tomorrow along with a brand new high school just across the street from the houses that took up 60 acres of land I used to be able to trail ride on. I wonder who has the $$ for this and where is it coming from.
Also I fear the stress on the infrustructure – we are short on water here in San Diego county, but you’d never know it with the building and the sod landscape they are putting in. Pisses me off there is no foresight whatsoever.
I liked that area of S.D. The wildness and the midewesternish farmland-like atmosphere was the best part, sounds like it’s been fading fast.
NunJoBizness asked, “I wonder who has the $$ for this and where is it coming from.”
The Fed.
Too many sheeple believing America is too special to fail like Russia, Mexico et al. Think about all of the lazy folks we have here and all of the guns. It is not going to be pretty when the supermarkets do not have any food to steal.
Better have a plan.
GA Mom says:
The only good news from this is that they(china) can’t come over here and claim “ownership”.
Really????
Selling America to China, one state at a time–WE ALL KNEW THIS WAS COMING
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-boise/idaho-to-be-first-chinese-state?fb_comment=33813536
NetRanger…not so good advise…I have 11 dozen canning jars bought in the fall and winter months…last year, the produce was so expensive, it was cheaper to go to Aldi’s…for canned vegetables at 45 and 50 cents a can.
I know..GMO and stuff…hey,I’m 60—too late to be worrying now what affects my brain..LOL
Clark: Are you worried about rising prices? We are going to get significantly rising prices anyway under current policies and probably double digit inflation from all of the money printing that Uncle Ben is doing, by next year.
And at a time when the American economy is “collapsing”; not when consumer inflationary pressures are pushing prices by increased demand.
The purchasing power of Americans is set to diminish considerably and rapidly under current policies and the quality of life for most of Americans will decline precipitously.
If we tax the shit out of the Chinese by putting tariffs on Chinese produce goods we can do five things:
1. Repeal the personal income tax.
2. Make government operate on tariff income as it was designed to do by the US Constitution.
3. Eliminate the $50 to 60 billion monthly balance of trade deficit.
4. Force corporations who want to sell to the American market to relocate their factories back home.
5. This will create new jobs in America.
Prices are going to rise and the quality of life for most Americans is going to continue to diminish under “Free Trade”.
Free Trade is only a euphanism for the financial rape of the American Middle Class by the gangster banksters. I suggest you do your reading about economics at SHTF America. You can click the link on the upper left.
I am not a kenyesian. I am a Patriot. What does your brilliant plan do? Please explain, if YOU can, without pointing to Lou Rockwall.
Anyone in favor of my proposal?
DK-sign me up! Anything that screws with the ChiComs is bound to be good for amerika. And even if it aint, I say screw ’em anyway! And if you tell Clark that he can’t link to lewrockwell then his keyboard freezes up and he can’t communicate!
…, British Mercantilism didn’t work then, and it won’t work now. For starters, read Adam Smith.
“If we tax the shit out of the Chinese by putting tariffs on Chinese produce goods we can do five things:”
What’s this “we” shtuff?
There is No, “we” there is Only “them” and they don’t want to do any of those things.
Rising tariffs on imports isn’t going to achieve any of those numbered items. The Only thing it will do is increase prices further for Americans.
What happened to your “can do” and “just do it” attitude? If the labor rate is only 30 Cents on the Dollar, create a machine to do enough work to compete and make a profit.
And, yes, DK, you are a Keynesian, and a Mercantilist to boot.
And you Clark like to throw labels around and make an excuse to push your daddy’s site, but do not understand economics AT ALL!
“Free Trade” for the last 30 years has destroyed the American economy. It’s the reason YOU cannot find a job or pay for a University education.
The “We” stuff is America as a whole. Who are “Them” that you are talking about?
Raising tariffs can and would do ALL of those things.
Aren’t you the one who believes that American taxes are “theft”? Aren’t you the one who, just a few months ago, was the chicken little running around lamenting the “Hyper-inflation” you saw coming from all the printing of money from the FED? And now you are suddenly concerned about rising prices because I want to tax the shit out of Chinese goods? GMAFB!
Where is it, Clark? where’s your program? Where’s your logic, where is your rationale? That’s what I thought. You don’t have one. You like to ambush other people who comment here like smith p and find an excuse to push your daddy’s link. You are nothing but a fucking shill!
You still haven’t explained what YOUR economic plan is to restore the American economy. What is it, Clark?
What’s your next brilliant idea, Clark? Lets hear it. I don’t think anyone on this site who works for someone else wants to work for 30 cents an hour or be replaced by a machine that says:
“Welcome to Mickey D’s, do you want fries with that Big Mac?”
because America’s industrial base has been shipped offshore, and the wealth of its middle class is exiting this nation at the rate of $50 to $60 billion dollars a month.
Tell US Clark, what sould WE do?
here, here!
I see a Lou or in England.
Clicked on the website this morning and saw the three latest topics, wow… certainly not for the faint of heart. Thanks Mac for all you do.
DK, you hit the nail on the head. Yep, for a while prices will go up but in the end jobs will come back to America.
This goes for all products that are made overseas not just China. The law should be if a product is sold here it should be manufactured here!
If I am not mistaken I think that is the way it is in China.
I really think this is going down in a real short order and I hope I am physically strong enough to handle it!
Being over 60 I notice that I am slowing down, however I just got my first batch of chickens so I will at leastl have fresh eggs!! Good luck God Bless,James
James: “Free Trade” under GHW Bush and continued for the last 32 years under the last four administrations has gutted American industry to the benefit of the Gangster Banksters and the financial detriment of the American worker, family, and taxpayer.
While the “Green Movenment” has pushed environmental rules, regulations, and laws upon our industrial base, America collects thousands of tons of Mercury and other pollutants from Chinese emmissions every day.
I am in favor of responsible industry, but what is the point in hobbling our manufacturers if the Chinese have a free hand to pollute America?
This was kind of funny, like hoping for change? “Yep, for a while prices will go up but in the end jobs will come back to America.”
I prefer low prices and competition myself:
Up With Vietnamse Catfish
“If you are looking for an archetype of disgusting protectionism – benefiting special interests, pillaging consumers, and impoverishing foreigners – the case of the catfish gets my vote…”
http://lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker198.html
Dear Troops:
Yesterday — Memorial Day — some people asserted, once again, that you are “defending our freedoms” overseas.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Those people are just repeating tired old mantras. The reality is that you are not defending our freedoms with your actions overseas. In fact, it is the exact opposite. Your actions overseas are placing our freedoms here at home in ever-greater jeopardy.
Consider your occupation of Iraq, a country that, as you know, never attacked the United States, making it the defender in the war and the United States the aggressor. Think about that: Every single person that the troops have killed, maimed, or tortured in Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
Yet, the countless victims of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq have friends and relatives, many of whom have become filled with anger and rage and who now would stop at nothing to retaliate with terrorist attacks against Americans.
Pray tell: How does that constitute defending our freedoms?
It was no different prior to 9/11. At the end of the Persian Gulf War, the troops intentionally destroyed Iraq’s water and sewage facilities after a Pentagon study showed that this would help spread infectious illnesses among the Iraqi people.
It worked. For 11 years after that, the troops enforced the cruel and brutal sanctions on Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. (See “America’s Peacetime Crimes against Iraq” by Anthony Gregory.) You’ll recall U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright’s infamous statement that the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions were “worth it.”
By “it” she meant the attempted ouster of Saddam Hussein from power. You will recall that he was a dictator who was the U.S. government’s ally and partner during the 1980s, when the United States was furnishing him with those infamous WMDs that U.S. officials later used to excite the American people into supporting your invasion of Iraq.
The truth is that 9/11 furnished U.S. officials with the excuse to do what their sanctions (and the deaths of all those Iraqi children) had failed to accomplish: ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein and replacing him with a U.S-approved regime.
That’s what your post-9/11 invasion of Iraq was all about — to achieve the regime change that the pre-9/11 deadly sanctions that killed all those children had failed to achieve.
No, not mushroom clouds, not freedom, not democracy, and certainly not defending our freedoms here at home. Just plain old regime change.
In the process, all that you — the troops — have done with your invasion and occupation of Iraq is produce even more enmity toward the United States by people in the Middle East, especially those Iraqis who have lost loved ones or friends in the process or simply watched their country be destroyed.
In principle, it’s no different with Afghanistan. I’d estimate that 99 percent of the people the troops have killed, maimed, or tortured in that country had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
Why did you invade Afghanistan or, more precisely, why did President Bush order you to do so?
No, not because the Taliban participated in the 9/11 attacks and, no, not because the Taliban were even aware that the attacks were going to take place
President Bush ordered the troops to invade Afghanistan — and, of course, kill Afghan citizens in the process — because the Afghan government – the Taliban — refused to comply with his unconditional extradition demand. You will recall that the Taliban offered to turn bin Laden over to an independent tribunal to stand trial upon the receipt of evidence from the United States indicating his complicity in the 9/11 attacks.
Bush responded to the Taliban’s offer by issuing his order to the troops to invade Afghanistan, kill Afghans, and occupy the country. In the process, U.S. officials installed one of the most crooked, corrupt, and dictatorial rulers it could find to govern the country, one who is so incompetent he cannot even hide the manifest fraud by which he has supposedly been elected to office.
In the process of installing and defending the Karzai regime, the troops have killed brides, grooms, children, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, and countrymen, most of whom never attacked the United States on 9/11 or at any other time. They simply became “collateral damage” or “bad guys” for having the audacity to oppose the invasion and occupation of their country by a foreign regime. (It should be noted for the record that U.S. officials considered these types of “bad guys,” as well as Osama bin Laden and other fundamentalist Muslims, to be “good guys” when they were trying to oust Soviet troops from Afghanistan.)
Was there another way to bring bin Laden to justice? Yes, the criminal-justice route, which was the route used after the 1993 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center.
That’s right. Same target, different date. In fact, the accused terrorists — Ramzi Yousef in 1993 and Osama bin Laden in 2001 — were ultimately located in the same country, Pakistan.
In Yousef’s case, he was arrested some three years after the attack, brought back to the United States, prosecuted, and convicted in federal district court. He’s now serving a life sentence in a federal penitentiary.
No invasions, no bombings, no occupations, no killing of countless innocent people, no torture, no war on terrorism, and no anger and rage that such actions inevitably would have produced among the victims, their families, and friends.
In bin Laden’s case, we instead got a military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, where the troops have killed, maimed, tortured, and hurt countless people who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
How in the world have your invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq defended our freedoms here at home? Indeed, how have the assassinations and bombings in Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, and who knows where else defended our freedoms?
All these things have accomplished is keeping foreigners angry at us, thereby subjecting us to the constant and ever-growing threat of terrorist retaliation here at home. As I have pointed out before, the U.S. military — that is, you, the troops — have become the biggest terrorist-producing machine in history. Every time you kill some Iraqi or Afghan citizen, even when accidental, ten more offer to take his place out of anger and rage.
That’s the same thing that was happening prior to 9/11. In fact, there were some, including those of us here at The Future of Freedom Foundation, who were warning prior to 9/11 that unless the U.S. Empire stopped what it was doing to people in the Middle East (including the deadly sanctions on Iraq, the support of Middle East dictators, the stationing of U.S. troops near Islamic holy lands, and the unconditional money and armaments to the Israeli regime), Americans would be increasingly subject to terrorist attacks. On 9/11, we were proven right, unfortunately. (See Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire by Chalmers Johnson.)
How does the constant threat of terrorist retaliation arising from your actions in Iraq and Afghanistan make us freer here at home, especially when you — the troops — are responsible for engendering the anger and rage that culminates in such threats, owing to what you are doing to people over there?
Consider also what the U.S. government does to our freedoms here at home as a direct consequence of the terrorist threat that you, the troops, are producing over there. It uses that threat of terrorism to infringe upon our freedoms here at home! You know what I mean — the fondling at the airports, the 10-year-old Patriot Act, the illegal spying on Americans, the indefinite detention, the torture, the kangaroo tribunals, Gitmo, and the entire war on terrorism — all necessary, they tell us, to keep us safe from the terrorists — that is, the people you all are producing with your actions over there.
In other words, if you all weren’t producing an endless stream of terrorists with your invasions, occupations, torture, assassinations, bombings, and Gitmo, the U.S. government — the entity you are working for — would no longer have that excuse for taking away our freedoms.
This past Sunday, the Washington Post carried an article about American wives who were recently greeting their husbands on their return from Afghanistan. Newlywed Anne Krolicki, 24, commented to her husband on the death of one of her friends’ husband: “It’s a pointless war,” she said.
That lady has her head on straight. She’s has a grip on reality, doesn’t deal in tired old mantras, and speaks the truth. Every U.S. soldier who dies in Iraq and Afghanistan dies for nothing, which was the same thing that some 58,000 men of my generation died for in Vietnam.
Please don’t write me to tell me that you all are good people or that you’re “patriots” for simply following whatever orders you are given. All that is irrelevant. What matters is what you are doing over there. And what you are doing is not defending our freedoms, you are jeopardizing them
Sincerely,
Jacob G. Hornberger
President
The Future of Freedom Foundation
http://www.fff.org
So you’re saying just the troops (those who invade with guns) “Yes, but they were all bad”?
The billion dollar war? Libyan campaign breaks Pentagon estimates costing U.S. taxpayers $2 million a day
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001778/Libya-war-costs-US-taxpayers-2m-day-Gaddafi.html#ixzz49ZED2gTz
The cost of the U.S. campaign in Libya is set to exceed the $750 million Pentagon estimate set out in March, according to a leaked Department of Defence Memo.
The ‘eyes-only’ DoD dossier said the U.S. had already spent $664 million in Libya by mid-May – a running cost of $60 million a month since the bombing began in March.
Clark: I read “Adam Smith” before you were only a glimmer in your mother’s eye.
Clark: I am still waiting for an explanation of YOUR program to reverse the nation’s economy. Where is it? You are the economic scholar here aren’t you?
Didn’t you do your doctorial thesis on:
“Adam Smith and The Wealth of Nations, A Prescription for Post Industrial America in The 21st Century Using a 19th Century Philosophy” ?
Com’on Clark! Edify US! Don’t tease US with a one line label and give US a link to your daddy’s site!
Give US your solution!!!!! Enlighten US Clark!!!!!
It doesn’t seem like you have read Adam Smith. If you had, why you would be advocating for British Mercantilism and talking down the free market system? Don’t you know mercantilism and protectionism don’t work?
And, no, what we had the last 100 years wasn’t the free market, much as you act confused on the matter.
It’s no use discussing anything with you, all you do is attack in a childish manner, you can’t even read simple links to understand things such as, there is no, “we” there is only “them”:
America’s Ruling Class — And the Perils of Revolution
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the#
Clark: I want to hear YOUR plan. Tell US, since you are such a fricking economic expert. Don’t hide behind another link Clark. That just proves you are a fucking shill for Lou Rockwall. Now EVERYONE knows it.
Can’t you form an opinion of your own? Can’t you discuss the issues without inserting archaic labels which have no relationship to contemporary global economics?
Didn’t think so. You are an economic fraud. No one should take a que from YOU on the economy, finance, or business. YOU don’t know squat!!!
I am not not against the “comparative advantage” of any particular nation as expoused by Adam Smith. It sounds good. Unfortunately it doesn’t work in practice.
It’s a 19th Century philosophy that, like communism, sounds good to the ignorant, but doesn’t work in practice because it doesn’t consider the character and behavior of individuals and governments.
The comparative advantage of the USA is its technology. Unfortunately, in practice, the Chinese are stealing our technology by every means possible, including the reverse engineering of the Boeing aircraft we sell them. A nation cannot keep its comparative advantage when its advantage is being copied, and stolen.
Additionally the capital of American citizens, evidenced by its banking deposits and treasury actions, are being used to fund the Chinese and others, to our own financial detriment.
WE are in fact subsidizing our own demise, which is led by the gangster banksters on Wall Street in the quest for immoral profits, and in the name of “Free Trade”.
What happened to Fair Trade? Why should Americans subsidize the construction of factories in China to eliminate their own jobs? That is not Adam Smith. That is insanity!!!
And you are a fucking economic idiot!
You are still being childish.
I don’t “hide” behind links, I put forth words that make sense and contain truth. For anyone who wants to learn more, they can… You obviously don’t.
Your Keynesian British Mercantilism mind doesn’t seem to be able to grasp certain concepts so you lash out instead, usually with red herrings and straw men, try doing some reading for a change.
Death By Debt
“…On a pure debt, deficit, and liability basis, the US, much of Europe, and Japan are all well past the point of no return. No matter what policy tweaks, tax and benefit adjustments, or spending cuts are made — individually or in combination — nothing really pencils out to anything that remotely resembles a solution that would allow us to return to business as usual…”
http://financialsense.com/contributors/chris-martenson/death-by-debt
Clark: On the contrary, it is not too late to tax the shit out of the Chinese!
Then we can eliminate the $50 to $60 billion monthly trade deficits that represent the wealth of the Middle Class that is moving offshore.
Industry will relocate back to the United States because it will be cheaper to produce and sell goods in the United States. Our factories will come back and so will our jobs, when WE REVERSE the policies that sent American factories and jobs offshore.
Financial Sense is a good site, and what you quote from them is correct: “No matter what policy tweaks, tax and benefit adjustments, or spending cuts are made — individually or in combination — nothing really pencils out to anything that remotely resembles a solution that would allow us to return to business as usual…”
In that respect they are right. No TWEAK will work. We must reverse the policies that created this mess on a wholesale basis. It is not too late. It is a very simple process to reverse the flow of capital and the means of production offshore.
Its called FAIR TRADE.
FAIR TRADE is the system that was in place before FREE TRADE, and with FAIR TRADE America grew rich and powerful by out-working, out competing, and out innovating the rest of the world.
Under FAIR TRADE a level playing field existed across the globe. Today the system is lopsided to give the Gangster Banksters an uneven playing field to exploit labor and individual enterprise in the Third World: with American deposits, and at American expense.
Americans cannot compete against labor rates of 40 cents per hour. Nor should they have too. Why should the Chinese (with the Gangster banksters behind them with American depositor funds)have access to American markets without paying for that access?
With FAIR TRADE in place again, America can eliminate the personal income tax and make government operate according to the US Constitution, on Tariff Income.
Free Trade is a fraud perpetrated on the American people by the Gangster Banksters to steal their wealth. Are you supporting the Gangster Banksters Clark, that have financially raped the American people?
I’m still waiting for YOUR proposal Clark, because as the Chief Fucking Economic Brainiac here I am sure YOU have the answer!
Let’s hear it Clark! Clark? Clark? Clark …..
A level playing field has never existed across the globe, but it is the goal of the NWO,… and it seems it is a goal of Durango Kidd too.
You seem to get a lot of things mixed up. The biggest one, you switched the meaning of the terms FAIR TRADE and FREE TRADE.
“Originally, free trade was not like mercantilism, where the government monopolizes and otherwise hinders the right to trade across borders. Free trade was not like an export policy where domestic producers are subsidized so they can push their goods on unwilling consumers abroad. Free trade was not like a producer policy where large producers conspire with the government to decide what goods will be allowed to cross borders. Free trade was not like an industrial policy where large corporations are given investment guarantees in the disguised form of aid to foreign regimes. Free trade was not like imperialism where a more powerful government imposes its will on a less powerful one through intimidation and force. Free trade was an ideal that grew out of the vision of liberty…
[John Taylor] saw the tariff as part of the apparatus of statist domination… Taylor saw the real motive of tariffs. They were a power grab.
…Both [Jefferson and Calhoun] argued that tariffs were taxation without representation. Both argued that this is tyranny,…
…If we are to restore liberty, limited and local government, free enterprise, and, yes, free trade, we must begin by understanding the power that a legitimate regionalism and an old-fashioned devotion to independence will have in uniting us against the forces of central control…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/protectionism.html
Clark: I have not switched anything! Sober up! Get with the program today. Come back to reality. FREE TRADE is the mantra of the NWO Globalists led by George HW Bush. Its his own words!
Tariffs on Chinese products would be “taxation without representation?” What have you been smoking?
Its bad enough that the Chinese have our wealth, now you want to give them the right to vote? LMAO!!! 🙂
You are very badly misinformed. Quit reading Lou Rockwall’s history and start reading contemporary economic’s.
The Moral Case for Free Trade
“…Recent issues of The New American have lamented the U.S. trade imbalance and chronicled the decline of American manufacturing as an increasing number of jobs are outsourced and more and more imports are allowed in. Although the crushing burden of government regulations is often cited as a cause, free trade is invariably viewed as part of the problem.
Too many unnecessary things are clouding the issue. To begin with, many people arguing for free trade are really arguing for government-managed trade, and many people arguing against free trade are really arguing against government-managed trade. This is why supporters of thousand-page trade agreements like NAFTA are viewed as free traders. And that is why the Bush administration can use free trade rhetoric while at the same time imposing tariffs, quotas, and “voluntary agreements.”
Then there is the idea that trade takes place between countries. Unless the government has complete control of the economy, trade, although often spoken of as between countries, is between individuals. Whether it is one individual selling an item to another individual, a small business that has found an overseas niche, or a corporation selling ten thousand tons of a commodity to another corporation, trade is not between countries, it is between individuals. When trade is thought of as only between countries, the fallacy that trade results in some countries benefitting (winners) at the expense of others (losers) is not far behind. Mises terms this dogma the “quintessence of the doctrines of Mercantilism.”…
The case for free trade is not based on fair trade, trade agreements, international trade theory, factors of production, absolute advantage, comparative advantage, or efficiency. These arguments miss the real issue. There is a far more philosophical defense of free trade that has been neglected: freedom. The moral case for free trade is based, not on how efficient or beneficial free trade is, but on freedom itself. Free trade simply means that every citizen of every country is free to trade with any citizen of any country…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/vance5.html
“contemporary economic’s.”?
The same book the banksters and mainstream economists follow? The same banksters and economists who didn’t see the bubbles and financial crashes coming?
No thanks, I prefer truth to lies.
Durango Kidd reminds me of Hamilton.
History Is Clear
“Hamilton was an enemy of free-market capitalism and early America’s foremost proponent of mercantilism, the system of government-granted monopolies, corporate welfare, protectionist tariffs and other policies that generally benefited politically connected businesses at the expense of the rest of society,” DiLorenzo
http://www.lewrockwell.com/french/french95.html
Don’t you think the Federal Reserve and the Member Banks of the Gangster Banksters have a monoply on American money, wealth, and markets? There is no free market. There never has been.
You don’t think we are seeing corporate welfare, ie Fascism in this country? Free trade and protectionism are buzz words for the NWO Gangster Banksters to rape America financially. They are euphanisms to make the looting of America palatable to US.
Its not protectionism today, its defense of our markets and our economy.
Protectionism vs. Liberty
“We [Durango Kidd especially] forget that tariffs are taxes, and that imposing tariffs means raising taxes.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul21.html
Isolationism and China
“Free trade and peace go together; protectionism is the handmaiden of war.
…Punishing China with embargoes and trade restrictions does nothing to improve life in China, even while it strengthens the hand of government here at home. We put the real enemy of liberty in charge of telling American producers and consumers what they can and cannot buy from abroad, and at what prices…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/10-97.html
“…the political-military-industrial complex is mercantilism writ large. It’s called fascism.” – Robert Klassen
You really should read the entire article, Buy American? Sell American!
“…The primary benefit of free trade is that it further tightens the screws of market discipline by expanding the realm of competition. Industries that face import pressure must become more productive or give way; industries that can take on the world’s best are able to export and expand. International commerce thus shifts a country’s resources away from less productive industries and toward more productive ones.
Protectionists like Buchanan [and Durango Kidd] get all of this backwards. They believe that wealth consists of particular domestic industries with high-paying jobs; they want to defend those industries and jobs from foreign competition. But high-paying jobs don’t just fall from the sky; they emerge from the process of market discipline that encourages ever-increasing productivity. By shielding producers from market discipline, protectionists interfere with and undermine the wealth-creating process that ultimately produces high-paying jobs…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/loberfeld7.html
“Who ever hopes a faultless tax to see,
Hopes what ne’er was, is not, and ne’er will be.” – Alexander Pope
You fucking traitor! Like Americans or the American government need to be concerned about improving life in China at our expense? Are you fucking nuts!!!
You and your daddy Lou Rockwall have the terms REVERSED for today’s economy.
What Is the Free Market?
“…The mercantilists argued that in any trade, one party can benefit only at the expense of the other, that in every transaction there is a winner and a loser, an “exploiter” and an “exploited.” We can immediately see the fallacy in this still-popular viewpoint: the willingness and even eagerness to trade means that both parties benefit. In modern game-theory jargon, trade is a win-win situation, a “positive-sum” rather than a “zero-sum” or “negative-sum” game…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard106.html
Total bullshit Clark! You are the one who has these terms reversed.
Take a flea market for example. Vendors must pay the market maker to sell their goods to the market. The Chinese need to pay the American government to access American markets.
More than that, Gangster Banksters are using OUR money to destroy OUR economy. These people should be hung up by their thumbs. Free trade is not fair trade. And 40 cents an hour is not increasing productivity. Its EXPLOITATION!
Free or Fair?
“…The bottom line is that what’s fair or unfair is an elusive concept and the same applies to trade. Last summer, I purchased a 2010 LS 460 Lexus, through a U.S. intermediary, from a Japanese producer for $70,000. Here’s my question to you: Was that a fair or unfair trade? I was free to keep my $70,000 or purchase the car. The Japanese producer was free to keep his Lexus or sell me the car. As it turned out, I gave up my $70,000 and took possession of the car, and the Japanese producer gave up possession of the car and took possession of my money. The exchange occurred because I saw myself as being better off and so did the Japanese producer. I think it was both free and fair trade, and I’d like an American mercantilist to explain to me how it wasn’t.
Mercantilists have absolutely no argument when we recognize that trade is mostly between individuals. Mercantilists pretend that trade occurs between nations such as U.S. trading with England or Japan to appeal to our jingoism. First, does the U.S. trade with Japan and England? In other words, is it members of the U.S. Congress trading with their counterparts in the Japanese Diet or the English Parliament? That’s nonsense. Trade occurs between individuals in one country, through intermediaries, with individuals in another country.
Who might protest that my trade with the Lexus manufacturer was unfair? If you said an American car manufacturer and their union workers, go to the head of the class. They would like Congress to restrict foreign trade so that they can sell their cars at a pleasing price and their workers earn a pleasing wage. As a matter of fact, it’s never American consumers who complain about cheaper prices. It’s always American producers and their unions who do the complaining. That ought to tell us something.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/williams-w/w-williams64.1.html
Clark: You cannot appy a pre-industrial 17th century economic philosophy to sophisticated modern day American markets and geo-politics.
The Chinese are the “protectionists” because they are manipulating their currency (and their wages and prices) to control financial markets to their benefit. This fact is evidenced by the 3 trillion dollars in currency reserves which they have.
The rise of China as an economic power is the direct resut of a political deal between the NWO Globalists (read Gangster Banksters) aka GHWB and the Chinese Communist Party: where the NWO Globalists and PTB would transfer the American means of production, and capital to China, in exchange for China becoming a capitalistic economy.
The NWO Globalists would be able to invest freely in the country and expatriate the wealth they generated. This process began in the late 80’s as enterprise zones in China and was accelerated by GHWB during his term as President.
For their part, the Chinese sent scores of people to the City to monitor financial markets, and they members of the Chinese Communist Party sent their kids to the best schools in the West.
As the Chinese communists complied by changing their laws, more and more production was outsourced to China, with each globalist Administration in turn, allowing more and more factories to be shipped offshore.
After their kids graduated from Western B schools, the Chinese “privatized” their national industries and installed their kids, fresh from western B schools as managers. These kids are now multimilliuonaires and the PTB in China. All done on American taxpayer and depositer money.
Initially, this was viewed as the price for peace by the American people, between two nuclear powers and distinct civilizations. It was viewed as a way to bridge the gap for the Chinese after the “Cultural Revolution” claimed 50 million victims.
We now know it was part of a Grand Plan by the NWO Gangster Banksters to enrich themselves at the expense of the American worker, taxpayer, and family; and destroy the American economy for the middle class, so that a global, one world government would be accepted by Americans. A one world government under the auspices of the UN.
http://www.shtfamerica.blogspot.com
The fact is, there is no reason for anyone to be chagrined by the idea of “protectionism”. WE should, and have a right to DEFEND OUR markets, OUR means of production, and OUR technology; particularly when WE are the ones that write the checks for the world’s freedom.
You need to get a clue. Free trade isn’t free and its the reason YOU cannot find a job, why 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and why YOU cannot afford a college education. It is also the reason that if you could afford a college education YOU still wouldn’t be able to find a job.
I am still waiting for YOUR proposal on how WE turn the economy around Clark. Are WE to continue to let the Gangster Banksters transfer the capital, wealth, and means of production offshore?
And if they can find Indonesians to work for 30 cents an hour and undercut the Chinese, are WE to allow Indonesia to flood American markets and steal American jobs and technology? Where does it end?
China is still communist. Indonesia is Muslim. Are WE to promote other ideologies that are anathama to OUR own philosophy, at OUR own expense, and to OUR economic demise? the American economy is as much a defense issue as aircraft, missiles, and warships. Maybe more so.
Applying a 17th PHILOSOPHY (Free Trade)which has never proven itself in the real world, and allowing that philosophy to destroy OUR economy and civilization is not just fool hardy it is STUPID!
You must be a fucking FOREIGNER! YOU damn sure are not a Patriot.
Patriotism Is the Last Refuge of an Idiot
“While Dr. Johnson was no doubt correct to write that “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel,” he just as easily could have written that patriotism is the last refuge of an idiot…”
http://lewrockwell.com/crovelli/crovelli62.1.html
Clark: Who’s the “idiot”? LMAO! 🙂
YOU are the one that believes in Free Trade, a pre-industrial 17th century philosophy that had never been applied until 30 years ago; and YOU think it can be applied judiciously to post industrial 21st century America.
The same “free trade” of the NWO Gangster Banksters, who have raped the American treasury, bankrupted the nation, transferred the means of production offshore,throwing many tens of millions of Americans out of work and on to food stamps, encouraged the invasion of America by 30 million nationals of latino nation to undermine the US Constitution, causing the death of thousands of American military personnel and hundreds of thousands of civilians in wars to extend unfettered capitalism around to globe; even to those who do not want it.
This is the legacy of Free Trade in only 30 years of application. I’ll bet you proudly call yourself a “Free Trader”.
I make NO apology for wrapping myself in patriotism. America, with all its fault’s is still the best place in the world to live and pursue the American dream of “life, liberty, and the pusuit of happiness”. If it wasn’t, tens of millions of people from every nation in the world wouldn’t be trying so desperately to get in.
Get use to living in your mother’s basement Clark, because as long as free trade is the law of the land to the benefit of the Gangster Banksters, YOU will be taking your meals in front of the TV downstairs.
And me? Palladium was above $800 an ounce last I looked. Gold about $1550, and Platinum over $1800. The more “Free Tade” there is in America, the richer I get.
Clark: Who’s the “idiot”? LMAO! 🙂
YOU are the one that believes in Free Trade, a pre-industrial 17th century philosophy that had never been applied until 30 years ago; and YOU think it can be applied judiciously to post industrial 21st century America.
The same “free trade” of the NWO Gangster Banksters, who have raped the American treasury, bankrupted the nation, transferred the means of production offshore,throwing many tens of millions of Americans out of work and on to food stamps, encouraged the invasion of America by 30 million nationals of latino nation to undermine the US Constitution, causing the death of thousands of American military personnel and hundreds of thousands of civilians in wars to extend unfettered capitalism around to globe; even to those who do not want it.
This is the legacy of Free Trade in only 30 years of application. I’ll bet you proudly call yourself a “Free Trader”.
I make NO apology for wrapping myself in patriotism. America, with all its fault’s is still the best place in the world to live and pursue the American dream of “life, liberty, and the pusuit of happiness”. If it wasn’t, tens of millions of people from every nation in the world wouldn’t be trying so desperately to get in.
Get use to living in your mother’s basement Clark, because as long as free trade is the law of the land to the benefit of the Gangster Banksters, YOU will be taking your meals in front of the TV downstairs.
And me? Palladium was above $800 an ounce last I looked. Gold about $1550, and Platinum over $1800. The more “Free Trade” there is in America, the richer I get.
Uh, What’s with this childish ranting of, “Get use to living in your mother’s basement Clark”?
You don’t know me. You don’t know anything about me, yet you insist on acting as if you do.
That speaks volumes about your ability to reason and think critically.
“The exercise of a free trade with all parts of the world [is] possessed by [a people] as of natural right, and [only through a] law of their own [can it be] taken away or abridged.
An exchange of surpluses and wants between neighbor nations is both a right and a duty under the moral law.
That the persons of our citizens shall be safe in freely traversing the ocean, that the transportation of our own produce in our own vessels to the markets of our choice and the return to us of the articles we want for our own use shall be unmolested I hold to be fundamental, and that the gauntlet must be forever hurled at him who questions it.” – Thomas Jefferson.
Cobden on Freedom, Peace, and Trade
“Every student of political economy knows that Adam Smith dealt mercantilist economic ideas a profound intellectual defeat in The Wealth of Nations (1776)…
Tariffs on steel may “protect” some steelworkers’ jobs, but at the expense of destroying jobs in all industries in which steel — artificially overpriced as a result of the tariff — is an input. Those industries are now less competitive in international trade. Such policies are all the more insidious because their negative consequences go essentially unnoticed, while their “benefits” are visible for all to see — everyone sees the jobs in the steel industry that the tariff has protected, but hardly anyone is even aware that the job losses in industries throughout the economy that use steel are attributable to the tariff…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods152.html
@ clark
I have read all the fancy copy and paste words you posted along with all the fancy wording double talk..
But, the bottom line to me is simple…
The rule I would like to see would be very simple to understand also. (unlike tax code, the bible, Lew Rockwell and you)
For any other country to be allowed to sell anything here, they must prove the workers in their country are making in monetary pay the equivalent of our Fed Mandated Min Wage or Higher… anything other than is ALL UNFAIR to Americans period…
I do not care how you slice, dice or chop it.. anything other than that means You want to exploit labor.
sorry but all the fancy words you spout avoiding that is useless…
we shouldn’t even allow china to sell anything here period, we never should have.. but that would have shown to everyone long ago how our money has been being debased to junk status since 1913… you can thank ALL cheap imports for that…. but I bet you will say you “like” how your money buys less and less all the time..
sorry but, Prices do NOT go up… The value of the Money goes down.
Dark Ages are coming to this country very fast thanks to thinkers like you…. To bad you do not see you are just being a water boy of disinformation… I feel sorry for you..
Do not bother with a reply… I will not read anymore from you or Lew Rockwell.. good luck to you in your delusional world.. again, I feel sorry for you.. why? because we are ALL one and you do not see it…
The bottom line Is simple, many People such as Black Sheep like to steal and hate to think. I’d bet he/she doesn’t even know that for many People The Dark Ages were a time of freedom and prosperity.
Theft by Mercantilism: Old and New
Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.” ~ The Gospel According to Keynes, Chapter 1, verse 1.
Keynesianism is an economic philosophy based on the idea that the free market requires intervention from the civil government in order to maintain justice and efficiency. The free market is both inefficient and unfair to the common man, Keynesianism teaches.
So does mercantilism.
Keynesianism is almost universally believed today. Therefore, mercantilism is almost universally believed. This connection is not intuitive, but it is nonetheless true. What the economics textbooks do not say, because they are written mostly by Keynesians, is that Keynesianism is mercantilism with equations…
But what of Western voters? Don’t they understand that tariffs are sales taxes, and increased taxes are bad for them? No, they do not. They see tariffs as a way to tell all those foreigners to get lost. They think of their wealth as citizens of a protected country – protected by sales taxes – as increasing when they have less after-tax money to spend on what they want to buy.
Are they crazy? No; they are traditional mercantilists. They are immune to economic logic. They cannot think through the logic of their position. They think that less is more: less after-tax income for them as private citizens means more wealth for them as members of the nation.
… Mercantilism is the economic philosophy that says, “I can use political power to get into your wallet deeper than you can use political power to get into mine.” It appeals to men’s egos…
Mercantilism is an easy sell. It sells to people who believe that badges and guns are the basis of wealth, if the good guys can somehow get their hands on badges and guns…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north923.html
BlackSheep said, “For any other country to be allowed to sell anything here, they must prove the workers in their country are making in monetary pay the equivalent of our Fed Mandated Min Wage or Higher… anything other than is ALL UNFAIR to Americans period… I do not care how you slice, dice or chop it.. anything other than that means You want to exploit labor.”
What a loaded statement, I wish more People would wise up to the inconsistencies and errors BlackSheep runs headlong into and becomes blinded by.
Those who support minimum wage laws are the ones who are exploiting labor.
Raising the Minimum Wage
“Few economists have the courage to point to labor legislation and regulation as the very cause of mass unemployment. A few who muster the courage may emphasize the infinite demand for labor but are ever mindful that its costs set limits to the demand…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/sennholz/sennholz11.html
See also:
Minimum Wage, Maximum Stupidity
by Peter Schiff
and
Minimum Wage, Maximum Folly
by Walter E. Williams
Clark: You are fucking nuts. Free Trade has been the law of the land for 30 years. The results are plain for everyone to see.
I got MINE.
How’s it working for YOU? That’s what I thought! 🙂
Free Trade has Not been the law of the land for 30 years.
Have you read anything I’ve posted?
Seriously, are you that dense?
CLark: Of course I HAVE not read a fucking thing you have posted. I haven’t read a thing you have posted since you gave a link to Dr. North’s article to defend your busllshit! When I read his article I discovered that you had totally misrepresented his argument, to support your own.
Why would I follow your links to your daddy’s site? You as just a fucking SHILL for Lou Rockwall and EVERYONE here knows it!
You NEVER make a comment of your own. You only take a quick quote from Lou Rockwall and try to pass that off as an authority for your moronic economics.
FREE TRADE has been the law of the land for 30 years. It was begun under Ronald Reagan with GHW BUSH as Vice President, to destroy the Soviet Union. It worked.
Then it was unleashed upon the American people under GHW Bush as he (like his daddy before him) was the architect of contemporary FREE TRADE (read: supply side economics).
The evidence for the results of FREE TRADE is in! These results cannot be denied except by morons, traitors, foreigners, and globalists.
Which one are YOU? 🙂
I showed you how you were wrong about the Dr. North article, yet you still persist like a two year old.
Your shill accusation is laughable.
You don’t seem to love liberty or want to seek truth, hopefully others won’t decide to be so willfully blind.
Reagan: No Revolution
“…Reagan at least favored relatively free-market policies, didn’t he? Not at all, if one looks at results instead of rhetoric. Although Reagan claimed at times to support free trade, the portion of imports facing restriction increased 100 percent over the course of his two terms…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert32.1.html
Clark: Laughable? You just posted another link to Lou Rockwall. That’s laughable! 🙂
There’s a whole long list of reasons why People think the USSR collapsed, but free trade does not appear to be one of them:
Gods ‘R’ Us
“…So what finally killed the USSR? It was the fall of the Soviet communist religion!…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/boukhonine2.html
Clark: And another! 🙂
I think merchantilist are socialist.
I prefer the free-market and liberty.
I think there’s something wrong with those who do not also prefer the free-market.
“Free-market capitalism is a network of free and voluntary exchanges in which producers work, produce, and exchange their products for the products of others through prices voluntarily arrived at.” – Murray N. Rothbard
What Is the Free Market?
“The Free market is a summary term for an array of exchanges that take place in society. Each exchange is undertaken as a voluntary agreement between two people or between groups of people represented by agents. These two individuals (or agents) exchange two economic goods, either tangible commodities or nontangible services. Thus, when I buy a newspaper from a news dealer for fifty cents, the news dealer and I exchange two commodities: I give up fifty cents, and the news dealer gives up the newspaper. Or if I work for a corporation, I exchange my labor services, in a mutually agreed way, for a monetary salary; here the corporation is represented by a manager (an agent) with the authority to hire.
Both parties undertake the exchange because each expects to gain from it. Also, each will repeat the exchange next time (or refuse to) because his expectation has proved correct (or incorrect) in the recent past. Trade, or exchange, is engaged in precisely because both parties benefit; if they did not expect to gain, they would not agree to the exchange.
This simple reasoning refutes the argument against free trade typical of the “mercantilist” period of sixteenth- to eighteenth-century Europe, and classically expounded by the famed sixteenth-century French essayist Montaigne [and the likes of Durango Kidd]. The mercantilists argued that in any trade, one party can benefit only at the expense of the other, that in every transaction there is a winner and a loser, an “exploiter” and an “exploited.” We can immediately see the fallacy in this still-popular viewpoint: the willingness and even eagerness to trade means that both parties benefit. In modern game-theory jargon, trade is a win-win situation, a “positive-sum” rather than a “zero-sum” or “negative-sum” game.
… It is robbery, not free markets, that actually follows the mercantilist model: the robber benefits at the expense of the coerced. Exploitation occurs not in the free market, but where the coercer exploits his victim. In the long run, coercion is a negative-sum game that leads to reduced production, saving, and investment, a depleted stock of capital, and reduced productivity and living standards for all, perhaps even for the coercers themselves…”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard106.html
Clark: And yet another link for your daddy’s site! 🙂
Clark: All of which only go to prove my point: you are are fucking SHILL for Lou Rockwall and only looking to use SHTF Plan as a opportunity to push your daddy’s site!
You are an economic fraud!
YOU know nothing about economics. YOU do not have a formal economics education which was evident from the very beginning as you didn’t even know the fundamentals of the Federal Reserve which any first year B-school student would know!
Now your mantra of “Free Markets” and “Free Trade” falls on deaf ears here because Americans know what Free Trade has done to their pocket book over the past thirty years.
WE don’t want a 17th century anachranism ruining our economy anymore!
It’s propaganda for the Gangster Banksters! WE know it! Thanks for exposing yourself to US! 🙂
Still acting like a child eh? A vile one at that too.
Whatever,… you’re wrong, about a lot of things.
If anybody here is spreading propaganda for the Power Elite, it’s Durango Kidd. Lets see:
The Power Elite are against free markets.
So is Durango Kidd.
The Power Elite wants a police state.
So does Durango Kidd, i.e. more than once this has been his line of thinking, “We must have a police state to remove all the illegals and to close the border so the illegals don’t come here and vote for a police state.”
The Power Elite want a violent confrontation with patriots and other liberty minded People to justify retaliation and the creation of a police state.
Durango Kidd has voiced support for violent confrontation that achieves those goals and mocked non-violent solutions such as Opting Out.
The Power Elite want the public to think of government officials as smart, in charge and the source of solutions.
More than once Durango Kidd has said Ben Bernanke is smart, knows what he is doing, and is in control. Durango Kidd has often expressed the idea, “If only People would work with goberment to solve problems government creates”.
All that supports the goals of the Power Elite.
The Power Elite follow Keynesian Economics and try to make everyone else follow it too while ridiculing those who do otherwise and actively foresee the disastrous effects from Keynesian Economics.
So does Durango Kidd.
The Power Elite presume to be spokespersons for everyone else.
How about that, Durango Kidd does that too.
I am sure there are more such examples, but that’s enough.
Durango Kidd and those like him are merchantilist, and merchantilist are socialist, People can make up their own mind if they think that’s cool or not.
I am sickened by his senseless and always unsupported drivel full of straw men, red herrings and fallacious ad hominems.
It appears that Max was right:
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. ”
– Max Planck
Why the shill accusation is laughable:
“A shill, plant or stooge is a person who helps a person or organization without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with that person or organization. Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) that he or she is secretly working for.” – Wikipedia.
[Shill]… “to talk about or describe someone or something in a favorable way because you are being paid to do it — often + for ▪ celebrities shilling for politicians” – Merriam Webster Dictionary.
I do not get paid by, nor am I affiliated with lewrockwell.com I just Love Liberty and Freedom, and lewrockwell.com is a source that explains the basis of Liberty and Freedom, as well as providing information from other sources.
If I posted links from The Wall Street Journal, Durango Kidd would likely say I was a shill for them too, and that’s laughable.
What’s Not laughable are those who are merchantilist – because they support theft – and if they are Christian merchantilist, that’s even worse, for they are hypocrites as well.
Merchantilism and protectionism is Legal Plunder, a.k.a. theft, see this short and simple video to see how:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TJIMqwJI2uI
“…all but the Austrian School economists are in favor of counterfeit money and tax revenues to save large banks. This is why there was silence from all schools of economics, except the Austrians, in 2008 when the Federal Reserve intervened.” – Gary North.