Forget Gold: Only Food, Tools and Resourcefulness Will Matter In a Mad Max Scenario

by | May 8, 2013 | Headline News | 296 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When we talk about Mad Max scenarios, we are talking about events where the world as we know it no longer exists. No banks, no credit cards, no grocery stores, no gas stations, and a landscape devoid of law & order.

    It’s an outlier to be sure, but one that has been experienced by millions of people throughout history.

    Worst case scenarios do happen. And when they do, the activities associated with the regular flow of commerce as we understand them today cease completely.

    Historically, this has happened more often than not as a result of economic calamity stemming from states that take on massive amounts of debt, with the end result being widespread war and total economic destruction.

    Should such events come to pass in our modern era, everything we believe to be valuable today will be redefined, and only those assets of real worth will maintain their trading power.

    According to cyclical analyst and historian Martin Armstrong, the dominant objects of value during a socio-economic collapse are those goods that can be used immediately for the purposes of survival or barter.

    A number of readers have asked ‘doesn’t gold survive a Mad Max event?’

    Historically, the answer to that is no. Dark Ages seem to be the total collapse of all economic activity on a collective basis. This is why there are huge gaps in the monetary history in Greece, Western Europe after the fall of Rome, and even in Japan. The duration is rather consistent – 600 years.

    What happens is civilization swings to its opposite – no-civilization where just enclaves emerge with little to no interaction with others.

    The Mad Max outcome is the swing back to barter where the dominant object of value first becomes food, then tools (bronze), and only after all that becomes stable, we see the return to luxury which is when gold and silver come back. You cannot eat them. They are valuable only based upon the demand of others.

    If they want food, sorry even gold goes off the map during such periods. It is typically grain or in the case of Japan bags of rice.

    Historically, society waits until it is too late and then they just massacre the protesters.

    Martin Armstrong via Prepper Website

    We cannot stress enough that these kinds of events, where civilization has regressed to what essentially amounts to hunting and gathering, has happened repeatedly and on a cyclical basis on numerous occasions over the last 5000 years.

    It will happen again. This is inevitable.

    We are on the very cusp of such a frightening outcome right now. Perhaps we can avoid the same outcome as Rome,a collapse which led to hundreds of years of war and impoverishment during the Dark Ages. But the reality is that we are well on our way to repeating their mistakes.

    Our country has taken on so much debt that it will require the labor of generations in order to pay it back, something that is very rapidly becoming improbable. Half of the households in the United States are dependent on monthly government distributions just to make ends meet. Those who are paying the taxes to cover these expenses are either losing their jobs or experiencing wage reductions, putting further strain on the system as a whole. Trillions of dollars in wealth are being transferred from the poor and working class into the hands of banking cartels, the military industrial complex, and elite members of the global oligarchy.

    Confidence by the masses may well be lost in short order. We’re seeing pockets of this all over the world. It’s like a viral contagion. First it starts on a small scale, and then spreads uncontrollably to all corners of the globe.

    Gold, while it is certainly a store of value, will often take a backseat in the midst of collapse simply because food, shelter and safety will be the only concerns that matter. This isn’t to say you should not own gold and silver to use as a mechanism of exchange, just that you need to understand  its viability as a barter tool based on the crisis at hand.

    Just as it was a thousand years ago during the period following the breakup of Rome, in Argentina today farmers are hoarding  grain while their currency and country’s economy collapses.

    Food is a dominant asset. Tools, whether they be firearms or plows, become dominant assets in a world where you have to depend on yourself or a small community to survive. Your resourcefulness, such as an ability to put a roof over your head, grow your own food, purify water or preserve your food for winter, will be dominant assets.

    It may take a decade or it may happen overnight. But one thing’s for sure: a pan-global collapse is coming. And when it does, make sure you are in possession of the dominant objects of value. Failure to understand history and prepare for the future will mean certain doom for millions. But Mad Max scenarios are survivable for those with the wherewithal to prepare.


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      1. Guess we have our retirement in rice, beans and bullets. 🙂

        Y’all play nice.

        hillbilly SC

        • If we mistrust globalist media on matters of current events, isn’t it insane to swallow their falsified history hook, line, and sinker?

          Those Terrible Middle Ages: Debunking the Myths by Regine Pernoud & Anne Englund Nash

          Seven Lies About Catholic History by Diane Moczar

          Those who hate Jesus Christ are deeply invested in lying about Christendom.

          • JQP, have you ever read “Foxe’s book of Martyrs? Before you swallow, Seven-lies-about-catholic history, read the aforementioned book. In that book, 7 lies…, they say that the reformers weren’t a good thing, really? Talk about writing history.
            Are you aware that the catholic dogma says that ‘ If a person willingly rejects the Holy Catholic Church, there is no salvation for that person? (Doubt me, read the pamplets in most Catholic churches). Jesus said He is the way, the Truth, and the Light. And no man comes to the Father except through Him. I was raised catholic. Mary is promoted as co-redeemer, that isn’t a lie?

            • Foxe’s dishonesty in recounting his “eyewitnesses” was so well-known in his own time that he had to produce a succession of several “corrected” editions. Foxe is as much “history” as MSNBC is “news.”

              As the simplest of gory comparisons, 500 years of Inquisition resulted in the execution of approximately 300 by all Catholic states combined. In 2 years alone, England’s “reformers” managed to execute over 20,000 Catholic prelates, priests, nuns, and laity.

              Certainly there have been heinous acts by Catholics, but an honest accounting would be in order.

              • JQP, I hate to tell you this, but the Spanish Inquisition, just one of several in Europe, did not consist of being poked with soft cushions and being seated in the comfy chair (Monty Python is satire).

                Spain kept meticulous details of the executions by Auto de Fe during the Spanish Inquisiton starting in the 1480s; there were at least 3000 people recorded formally executed, many by being burned alive, at the behest of the Church in Spain. And this is not even touching on the people who died in prison or were persecuted and slaughtered in their scouring of the Low Countries, many of whom were not rendered the formal courtesies of an Auto de Fe.

                That is not to excuse the bloodshed under Henry VIII. He was a depraved, insane tyrant who slaughtered innocent Catholics indiscriminately, hung the bodies of monks and nuns on the walls of their churches, and passed sacred lands and abbeys out as favors (to people who often lost their heads, literally, as well). Then after the execution of Anne Boleyn and Cromwell, he turned around and slaughtered so-called “Lutherans” for being too Protestant and protesting his depravities. Basically he was an indiscriminant monster with equal opportunity at the Smithfield pyres.

                Thank God we live in American and at least for now can practice what we want to practice.

                Mac, I hate to tell you this, but gold was still highly sought after in the Dark Ages. It was just much harder to keep and display safely, which is why we have things like Anglo-Saxon gold hoards and Vikings pillaging monasteries. They weren’t after the beans and rice, I can promise you that. I am sure the Saracens were just as keen to get their hands on gold. And in fact, Charlemagne had to put the Holy Roman Empire on a silver standard due to a shortage of gold. The Dark Ages were pretty okay if you were a member of a Germanic or Viking tribe. They didn’t have as much fun under the Romans. It’s all just a matter of perspective. But gold was still king.

                • My point is not to whitewash Catholic sins or Christendom, but to note that the term “Dark Ages” is better applied elsewhere. I argue that these are the Dark Ages.

                  I dispute your numbers MamaBear. The various governments executed criminals for crimes unrelated to the Inquisition or heresy. You (or your source) are conflating those numbers. Executed murderers and rapists have been lumped with heretics to fabricate and inflate the Black Legends.

                  The Holy Inquisition in all nations (essentially Europe) resulted in the execution of approximately 300 over the course of 5 centuries. I think a fair accounting is in order, an accounting that is not advanced by gross exaggerations or outright lies such as Foxe’s. I have offered two references already.

                  Nothing in Christendom came close to the heinous deeds of our present day. Times are far more “dark” since the synagogue instigated and financed the Protestant Deformation and the perpetual wars from which their banksters profit. So much for their version of “reform”:

                  Jewish Influence on Christian Reform Movements
                  by Rabbi Louis I. Newman

                  I reiterate. My point is not to whitewash Catholic sins or Christendom, but to note that the phrase “Dark Ages” is better applied elsewhere. Christendom wasn’t perfect, but it was far better than today’s Judeo-Luciferian hegemony. I argue that these are the Dark Ages.

                  • I definitely agree that the so called dark ages got a very bad rap.

                    The Spaniards kept meticulous records. Murderers were not tried at the auto de fes, although people accused of sexual crimes were, along with Protestants, crypto Jews and Muslims. That is why it is 3000 minimum. murderers did not have any sort of ecclesiastical trial.

                    However, you should probably note the several millions of Irish Catholics killed by Elizabeth, Oliver Cromwell, and the potato famine, all caused by policies deeply hostile to the Irish Catholic church.

                    All of which, as you note, pale in comparison of the atrocities caused by atheists and Marxists in the 20th century.

                  • MamaBear,

                    ONLY baptized Catholics were subject to the Holy Inquisition, NOT Jews, NOT Muslims, NOT pagans.

                    Insincere converts, the Marranos, who had themselves baptized to give the appearance of converting, but who continued to practice Judaism (and subvert Church and State) were subject to the Inquisition. Halacha (the Judaic version of sharia) excuses such insincere conversions done for business, social, or other advantage, but does condemn to death sincere Jewish converts to Christianity as apikorsim (“apostates”).

                    “It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minim [Christians], and apikorsim, [“apostates,” i.e., sincere Judaic converts to Christianity] and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.” [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Chapter 10]
                    Chabad’s rabbis discuss Maimonides’ advice on killing, Scroll down to the Commentary on Halacha 1:

                    Under the laws of the Spanish state, Jews were subject to execution for crimes such as murder, including the ritual murder of the Holy Child of LaGuardia. The professed Jews would not be subject to the Holy Inquisition even for such a heinous ritual child murder (crucifixion, bleeding, and the heart cut out to use in a ritual curse against Christians). The Marranos, having been baptized, were subject to the Inquisition for crimes with such religious implications. See Longhurst, John Edward. “The Ritual Murder of La Guardia,” The Age of Torquemada. The Library of Iberian Resources Online, XI: 149-152.

                  • yes, that is what crypto Jews and Muslims are. Many of whom were forcibly baptized, others of whom were terrorized out of the country or otherwise killed. I am sure that Ferdinand and Isabella had their reasons, as Henry had his for the terrors he rained down on Protestant and Catholic alike, some of whom were subverting Henrys church and state, others of whom were innocent and just trying to get along when the religious rules start going full retard.

                    I am just pointing out that the 300 number is highly questionable and directly contradicted by auto de fe records. These often public entertainments put on by the church were only judging people who had been baptized catholic.

              • Yes and you should start with the thousands of witches executed because the Church excommunicated them, Hypocrisy and selective memory are hallmarks of the Church

                • Read a little, would you? MOST of those witches were burned by Protestants. They were not subject to the inquisition.

                  Add executed murderers, rapists, and witches killed by Protestants and heretics and you are still HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS short of what the synagogue has wrought.

                  “Chosen People” (Gavril Princeps and his co-assassins) started World War ONE—25 million died.

                  “Chosen People” (the 1933 Declaration of War of World Jewry against Germany) started World War TWO—60 to 80 million died.

                  “Chosen People” created (Rabbi Moses Hess and his disciple Marx), financed (Rosenwald, Kuhn, Loeb, Schiff, etc.), propagandized (Ehrenburg, Mikhoels, Khaldei, etc.) exported (Kun, Eisner, Zimanas, Rozanski, Pijade, Rakosi, Olszewsi, etc.), and mostly ran (Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Sverdlov, Litvinov, Andropov, etc.) Communism, their secret police (Dzhezhinsky, Yagoda, Bronstein, Yurovsky, Pauker, Slutsky, Gay, Speigelglas, Babel, etc.), and gulags (the Kaganovich family, Berman, Frenkel, Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk, etc.)—60 million died in the USSR; if you blame Hess and Marx for Mao, add another 75 million dead.

                  The synagogue of Satan is responsible, directly and indirectly, for the murder of nearly a QUARTER BILLION PEOPLE in the 20th century.

                  As I said, these are the Dark Ages.

                  • Have read. and the Church can Kiss off,ALL of them, Anyone that dares to say they represent GOD had better be better, not just able to say: “Well I didn’t kill as many innocent people as you did.” I never killed anyone, That makes me better than they are, how dare they try to tell me what to do! Or rate MY morals.Scum sucking perverts and scam artists. IMHO

                  • @ Paranoid, Stay on point. Mac mentioned “Dark Ages” and I pointed out how the term is a smear.

                    I object to characterizing better times as “dark”—especially when present times are so much worse. I object to historical lies. I object to current lies.

                    God is perfect. Men are not. Even CHURCHmen are not perfect. Some men are better than other men.

                    Get over yourself. You will be accountable for what YOU do, just as I will be accountable for what I do.

                  • You have severe mental problems and should seek help. Your Jew hatred has warped you. The dark Ages were caused by a climatic event. Nothing to do with Jews or Catholics.

            • No need for “pamphlets.” Read your Bible.

              Jesus founded ONE Church, a visible Church to govern (Matthew 18:18), teach (Matthew 28:19-20), and sanctify (Matthew 28:18-19; John 20:23). See the singular for Church in Matthew 16:18. He didn’t found PLURAL 32,000+ Protestant cults with each bonehead his own Pope. Jesus insisted on ONENESS of DOCTRINE (John 17:11, 21).

              God is not an idiot. He did not intend to found thousands of cults with conflicting doctrines. The conflicting doctrines were Satan’s idea, not God’s.

              God founded ONE Church with ONE true doctrine. God gave us TRUTH, not lies of conflicting doctrines. It is the Father of Lies who gave you those lies.

              Get the memo. You are “free” to make any mistake you want—as long as you are willing to pay with your eternal soul.

              • There’s no record of Peter even going to Rome. Jesus Christ is the head of the “one” Church!

                • And Popes are His Vicars on earth with the authority granted to them by God. You have no authority to take away what God Himself granted.

                  • God granted no such authority to Popes. Catholicism’s start was simply a group of people who introduced Christianity to Rome, mixed in paganism by substituting the Saints for ancient Greek gods and placed Mary in the place of Isis for the purpose of making intercessions, when all this was done it was a compromise of God’s word to appeal to Romans who worshiped under ancient Greek and Egyptian polytheistic religions. Then they self appointed themselves as Peter’s successors.
                    The word of God says “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” Also, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus”

                    Catholicism = Idolatry.

                  • EXACTLY WHO said the Pope in Rome was anything? Not counting the Pope,in Rome? Edgar Bergen spoke for Charlie McCarthy, but I don’t think that counts either.

                  • Catholics honor the Blessed Virgin Mary. We do not worship her. We worship only God.

                    Catholics honor the Saints. We do not worship the Saints. We worship only God.

                    And, just as we might ask our brothers and sisters on earth to pray for us, we Catholics do ask our brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for us.

                    None of that makes the Blessed Mother or the Saints our “Redeemer.”

                    None of that makes us idolators.

                    Parroting your foolish lies does not make Catholic idolators, but does make you… well, you get my point.

                    Thanks for the opportunity to beat lies with Truth.

                  • Catholics bow to and service statues of Mary during services, even in their homes. Exodus 20:4-5 instructs us not to perform any such idolatry:

                    “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them”

                  • Do you worship the “graven images” of your family members on your mantlepiece and in your wallet? Or the statues of heroes in public parks?

            • The Blessed Virgin Mary’s role in our Redemption was cooperating with the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, Messiah, Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Who can neither deceive, nor be deceived. We honor Mary. Contrary to Jack Chick’s cartoonish errors, we do not worship her. While we pray directly to the Holy Trinity, we also ask Mary to be our intercessor. She is not our Redeemer or “co-redeemer.”

              How you managed to fit so many errors into a single paragraph is an astonishing accomplishment. If you were really “raised Catholic,” you weren’t listening well.

              • Not errors, but that’s ok. I Tim. 2:4-6 and yes I do read the bible and study it. Having debated many catholics (priest, members, etc..) and help deprogram them.
                I Cor. 6 says the individual is the temple. The church is the bride, the believers not the church.
                Even Jesus tells us, Matt.6, not to pray repetitiously but pray Our Father Who art in heaven NOT Hail Mary who art in heaven.

                John Q., the main point is are you willing to be more passionate for and about Jesus than a church? I am not judging you only presenting points that are historical without bias. I would gladly sit down with you or anyone to share our differences.

                • John, Follow a train of thought and let me state that I am not against catholics nor am I trying to win an argument with you. But if anyone’s mind is made up there is nothing that can be shared that’ll change them regardless of facts. And yes I do read quite extensively.

                  None of us have the full picture on anything we see or think we know. History is not only written by the victors it is also a constant revisionism for the purpose of image and control.

                  Oh, as a raised catholic I listened well. The bible you read was written at the expense of martyrs such as Tynedale, for Rome didn’t want it translated to english or any other language. Growing up, we were discouraged from reading the bible, as Americans we are discouraged from reading and knowing the constitution. Why? If the masses are kept in the dark, how better to control them. It is easier to seperate the masses (better control) than to let them govern themselves as one.
                  This country wasn’t built by Rome but rather people seeking to worship God freely and free from persecution. Do some research and you’ll find that where Rome governs, as the supposed representitive of Christ, there you’ll find poverty.
                  Do you need an elected official to interpret the constitution for you? Do you need an individual to interpret the Bible for you? (John 14 and 16 Jesus said He’d leave and send another, the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth). We are held accountable individually at judgement day whether we had one Master/Lord (Jesus) or another (mammon or man). The fruit we bare is of the Spirit not the church we attend or the sacraments. And no there is no such thing as purgatory (fact).
                  One last fact: People were put to death for not accepting Rome as authoritative or transubstantiation. Look it up and don’t limit your research to only what Rome puts out.

                  • John, Matt.16:18; in regards to the the church being built upon Peter. Look it up in the original Greek.
                    Jesus says Peter (stone) upon this Stone/Rock (Jesus) would build His church.
                    Peter should know what He said, right?
                    I Peter 2:6-8
                    vs 6: A precious Corner Stone…(Who: Jesus)
                    vs 7: The Stone which the builders rejected(Who: Jesus)
                    vs 8: A Stone of….(Who? Jesus)
                    Paul says Eph.2:19-22..(vs 20)we are being built upon the corner stone (who? Jesus)

                    Then He himself said (Matt.11:28-30)
                    vs 28: come upon my yoke ( not the church)
                    vs 29: learn from Me (not man or a church)
                    Then the reformation (Martin Luther found Rom.3:20 man is justified by faith…)
                    Everyone that has opposed Rome has been smeared.
                    Good day and have a great week.

                  • Apologies to Mac that my objection to the “Dark Ages” smear has become an all out religious discussion, but here goes.

                    Paranoid, the Bible I read was compiled by St. Jerome in the 4th century A.D., more than a millennium before Protestants needed to re-write and expurgate the Bible to foist their revisions upon the masses. Protestantism couldn’t stand up to the Bible, so they had to shred it to suit their (and Satan’s) purposes, for Protestant “image and control” as you put it. St. Jerome was fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin. He had corroborating texts that have long been lost to us, so, compared to us, he was in the better position to decide what is consistent with Apostolic Tradition. When printing became common and copies were no longer handwritten, so too did translations become common. As Catholic children we were encouraged to read the Bible precisely to show how Catholicism is biblical and Protestantism is not.

                    Your disparagement of the Angelic Salutation is a timely example. I refer you to the Angelic Salutation at Luke 1:28 and also to Luke 1:42.

                    Matthew 6 does indeed exhort us to pray the “Our Father,” but it does not forbid other prayers—except praying as heathens.

                    Bottom line: The Catholic Church teaches what Jesus and His Apostles taught. He taught nothing in secret, so there is no gnosis, no secret teachings come from God, no legitimate room for disagreeing with what He taught. All the fevered and conflicting dogmas that required Protestants to re-write and trash books of the Bible are not of God, but of the Enemy.

                    Since God established a visible Church to govern, teach, and sanctify, I trust that He knew exactly what we needed. You may have an opinion different from God, but I will put my Faith in His omniscience and His Love. That you think you know better than Him doesn’t say much for your alleged love of God or His Word.

                    Feel free to blame men for their evils, but the evils of men are no reason to reject what God taught and wants.

                  • DRD5508, your koine Greek is weak.

                    In Greek, the word for rock is petra, feminine gender. The biblical word used for Simon’s new name is Petros, masculine gender, emphasizing that the Church was being built on Simon Peter the man, not some arbitrary rock on the ground in which case the feminine would have been used.

                    These things were common knowledge in Apostolic times which makes it all the more amusing that today’s boneheads are so proud of bogus exegesis derived of their pidgin linguistics.

                    See also my earlier references. It is impossible to have an invisible Church that meets God’s commission. God Himself commissioned the Church to teach, govern, and sanctify. He sure didn’t want conflicting dogmas to be taught by innumerable sects. He preached ONENESS in belief. Foolish to think that an invisible Church can govern. Protestantism is full of innumerable such logical inconsistencies, so many that the falsity of Protestantism is apparent to any honest seeker. To those who do not love the truth, read 2 Thessalonians 2:10.

                  • Nice try JQP, never used Greek and you don’t know what you are talking about.
                    2nd, we are to be the salt of the earth, not govern the world.
                    You proved my point, now read and research what I shared, then challenge me. Till then hope you do well and no hard feelings.

                  • Your self-laudatory “win” was good for a laugh. “Nice try,” yourself.

                • THIS comment is for everyone PETER was not head of the christen church PAUL was the answer peter gave jesus
                  had to do with who jesus was and why he was here jesus
                  was defined as the rock peter is defined as the pebble
                  the catholic faith dates back to babalyon the word pontiff came from there read DANIEL the catholic church
                  came from the roman emperors which followed the babalyoning pagan beliefs and system
                  which is worldwide today

                  • What is gratuitously asserted is gratuitously rejected. Have a nice day.

                  • John Q, I thought it went,

                    “What is asserted without evidence can be made mockery of, for it has no other purpose.”

              • It’s a good thing you were taught out of the English Bible, Ever look into why the English King Has a Catholic title of Defender of the faith? Because he was kind enough to make it a death offence to have an English Bible. The Mafia has nothing on the True

              • Mary was a Jew as were Joseph and her son Jesus who was born and died a Jew. You need help.

                • “There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one IN Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:11

                  Those who are not IN Christ Jesus were described by God in perfectly clear terms in Apocalypse 3:9 (“Revelations” to you Prots): “the synagogue of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.

                  Got it? Those are God’s words, not mine.

                  Readers here are also well aware who perfected “treating” political opposition as mental illness. Of late, the Obama administration has increasingly used that Judeo-Bolshevist trick of the synagogue, but that trick, like the ritual epithet “anti-semitic,” has been so over-used and misapplied that it no longer works the magic it once did.

          • Good reply. Mr. Slavo is woefully ignorant of history and even more ignorant of fractional reserve banking. Me and mine are not going to work our tales off to pay off a fraudulent usurious debt “owed” to a bunch of eastern european bankers!

          • Jim (another Jim) : That’s why I’ve been saying to folks not to do or say anything stupid that’ll get you noticed by TPTB. Yeah, I know this pastor didn’t do anything, it was his idiot grown son. I’ve also said that it’s unwise to keep all of your ‘goods’ in one location whether it be a robbery or home invasion by the police. Once your primary location is comprom ised, you’d better have a Plan B and C, otherwise known as secondary fall backs points. It’s time to be invisible folks and to have a backup plan or two. This pastor will get his stuff back, but it’ll take time and money because lawyers don’t work for free. The whole thing sucks big.

      2. I’ll be back in my garden tomorrow. Maybe we’ll have a few days without rain. Hopefully the weather will warm so my tomatoes will start growing. As long as it’s cool, they stay the same size. But the strawberries are trying to take over the garden.

        • It finally warmed up here all the blossoms are out right on schedule and right on schedule we are forecast to have temps in the 20s this weekend…I hate mother nature!….havent had a peach/apple/grape/pear in years(froze out 7 of the last 10 years) oh we get nice blooms but always a mid/late May freeze that we never had 12 years ago and back…been thinking of bulldozing the orchard and planting hay…least it produces….well,not likely but Im tempted if I lose this years crop…grrrrrr!…itll be a couple more weeks (if Im lucky) before tomatoes and such go in the ground but Im ready!

          • where are you? I am in northern Vermont and have had 10 days of hot dry weather, not normal here and the fruit buds will probably freeze this week.

            • Windy…I wont say exactly where im at, but Im south of you a fair piece and in the hills of the Appy mountains….never been to Vermont…I hear its nice…hope your fruit buds dont freeze….mine are loaded down just praying it doesent get as cold as theyre talking…I plan on canning a ton of apple stuff and peach stuff and plum stuff and all kinds of stuff 😉 enough to last through the years where we get froze out….have a great growing year!

          • florida gardening. I’ve been picking green beans for about 4 weeks. first year using raised beds. works pretty good. a little easier to pick than standard rows for us age challenged folks.
            For all this discussion on a reversion back to the dark ages, I think several things will be different. ever since this “green movement” thing has been going strong for a while, people who are trying to go old school have learned how to incorporate modern tech into low tech use. I have seen many examples of simple machines being made out of scrap items to do many different tasks that would be usefull on a “after collapse” farm situation.
            But an important point was mentioned in the cover story. a good supply of manual tools to fabricate these simple machines will be important.
            But the flip side to this “get back to basics” type thinking, are the literal millions of welfare sheeple who have no skill, other than standing in line, waiting for someone to give them something. I’m not slamming people who have feel on hard times, and need some assistance. You guys know who I’m talking about.
            I think some of the people who have learned how to do many things manually, and can take care of themselves, may have to spend a lot of their time, fighting off hordes of sheeple , who have run out of options, and looking for another handout. It isn’t hard to figure out the possible scenerios. good luck folks.

            • Im jealous…I wont even plant GB till June…might lose them to a late frost…might put some in the hoophouses but not outside…hope to get an acre of potatoes in in a week or so but Im short on help this week…blew a tire off my old gray mare…and they aint cheap…needed a new rim too but I decided I could repair it so I did…saved some cash for other things like fence wire…personally I do not see a return to any dark age…we have many dark events happening around us but it doesnt mean we have to allow it to destroy us…we have the blueprint we can build it again…I use alot of farm equiptment that was once pulled by animal traction…alotof it was headed to or in the scrap pile when I resued it…as an example I just finished rebuilding an old IH potatoe digger that is over a hundred years old…saw the neighbor dig with it when I was a kid and it was in rough shape back then….after that it sat in a fence row for about 40 years….got it for a good price and fixed her up…no more 1000′ of taters with a fork 🙂 hope your garden do well in Florida…did a bit of gardening down there and its a challenge….and yep them raised beds are great,been using them here for about forty years and almost never plant anything in a plain old flat row anymore,good luck!

        • maybe we’ll get a few days without sun and get a bunch of rain.

          I’ll be back in my garden tomorrow also…

          We’ll earn what the earth gives us.

        • The cool Spring with late freezes and lack of rain in my area has doomed my usual crop of blackberries and peaches. I always get enough to put in the freezer for most of the year. Guess I better learn some new recipes for tomato, squash, and okra desserts!!

      3. I can think of many scenarioes that would lead to a Md Max situation. Two of them are definitely in the top 5 of the hihest chances of SHTF event. World war is knocking on the door louder than ever now. The runaway virus that comes out of an area like India, or from some country’s bio-weapons’ program. Mad Max or the movie “The Road” or becoming more and more likely each day as time goes along. These are survivable if you know how to forage and know how to be inventive, as refined finished goods will be everywhere after something like this happens. You brain will be one of your best assets on being able to use what is left.

        • I agree completely that our brains are our best survival tool and have spent my free time becoming a wilderness survival and firearms instructor, a firefighter and HAZMAT technician, a HAM radio operator, a plumber and electrician, etc. The focus on stuff over skills is the most alarming trend I’ve seen in the movement in the last thirty years.

          Even the hoarding of food past a few years’ worth testifies to this attitude of having over being. The biggest short-sighting I witness today is that people think we will go from here to Mad Max overnight. Possible, but very unlikely and if we experience a much more likely slow slide, precious metals could allow one to keep their farm a few more years by paying the taxes and not become homeless in advance of total chaos like so many subsistence farmers during The Great Depression.

          Precious metals could be the difference between staying home and being ‘On the Road’ for a long time. They are at least a hedge against inflation while food is still available at any price. Even during the Biblical famine, it was silver Joseph’s family took to purchase food from Egypt. If an EMP attack took out even half of the U.S. power grid, precious metals would still have value in the rest of the world.

          I don’t own much gold, but after a free-and-clear retreat that provides its own heat, meat, power, and water, an impressive armory, a few years’ food storage and the means to replace that I did bury a fair amount of silver for my children. If history is any indication, in twenty years it might make the difference in getting them an apprenticeship.

          • Very well said, Pastor.

          • My Dad used to tell me…”learn everything you can about anything you can,even if you dont like it or want to do it!”…I did just that and its kept food on the table and a roof overtop all these years

        • This is undoubtedly true, but, Man!, I’m too old for Mad Max! If my family is left alone, always a huge IF, we’ll be okay for the foreseeable future. All pleasant daydreams of pastoral gardening with nature showering us with rain and great temperatures aside, it’s hard to garden with people shooting at you or stealing what you grow. As much as our corrupt and vengeful government distresses me, I’m not sure we can stand up to “The Road”.

          Speaking of corrupt and vengeful, did anyone else see the picture of Hillary Clinton on Drudge? She looks absolutely deranged.

          • Vicky in that moment, she realized that she will never be the first Lesbian President.

            • Good response! The picture was also a good likeness.

            • If Hillary Clinton was to become the next president, I would seriously consider leaving this country. We think Obummer is bad, she WILL end this country. Period.

          • Vickie, I’m sure younger people could physically out work me—if they knew what to do, but they don’t. I wouldn’t last long on a forced march, but let me go at my own pace and I’ll meet the goal. I have the knowledge and the skills and experience they don’t have. I have the brains they don’t have and what I know will keep me and mine alive. I may be slower but I know stuff!

            • Same here. No disrespect meant to those of us over 40. I have moderate arthritis which slows progress considerably, but still know many of the “old skills”, EXCEPT spinning and weaving. The only class I’ve seen advertised is in Arizona and I’ve been unable to find someone who actually knows how to do something this intricate. We haven’t disposed of old clothing for several years and I can make a pattern and sew things together. Fortunate as I have both children and grandchildren who will require upsizing of clothing. Wonder if all the really old skills will have to be re-invented or if there are enough living people to teach the rest of us? (For instance, the Bronze Age…. I have no idea how to make bronze and that’s a skill from the Neolithic era.)

              • @ vicky check for fiber festivals if you want to learn spinning and such. i know you can find them in n.c., tn, ms. there is also a magazine about spinning, dyeing, etc. natural fibers. will see if i can find a link for you.

                • Thank you! I probably have no talent, but will give it a shot. I appreciate the link as I just haven’t been able to find anything. This is such a great community! Thank Kimimtn

              • “I have no idea how to make bronze and that’s a skill from the Neolithic era.)”

                I suspect we’ll have a leg up on that, by taking things already forged and refitting them to fit our needs. For example, Making a 55 gallon steel drum into a wood burning stove. Using a piece of sheet steel to make furrows in the garden. 1 inch tin slats for a rake. Who knows what could all be made from existing aluminum tubing of various sizes. Car rims to be used as pulleys. Engine parts may have a variety of new uses. Seeing these new ‘potentials’ is one of my personal strong points.

                The same pieces of scrap could be used over and over again. This can all be done without having to smelt your own metals and pour your own pieces.

                You don’t have to be a journeyman molder, just have a good imagination and a few hand tools.

            • pmomma…”don’t go down without one helluva fight”

              we old fucks are all that is left…lms.

            • DITTO.

          • I think if you can survive the first 3 months in the Mad Max world, things will get better with respect to some difficulties. Many people would perish, easing some of the overal stresses for items needed and competed for.

            • the first couple weeks will be fucked, after that it will ease a little only because the starting knee jerk reactions will be gone, but will not get any better as far the difficulties.

              If it goes Mad Max, say goodbye.

              Unless you group up and not a small group. Read some of Selco’s postings over at shtf school. And or his book. I do believe someone posted this yesterday or Tuesday.


              Was a great read I mulled over and read thru his postings last night. This dude is the real shit he lived it in a scenario not even we will be imagining. He was trapped. There was no going to the country side, there was no hunting game. He DID GO ONE STEP FURTHER a few times eating pigeon and even rat, as I stated before about the NY dumpster divers, no one should of starved in the land of pigeons and rats the size of cats.

              Thinking about gold and silver seems to be what should be Last if even at all on our minds.

              From what I gathered from Selco so far is.

              #1 Fire Arms and Ammo ( even if you got shit to trade how will you get to where you will trade ?)

              #2 Hygiene ( was shocked on this one but i realized he is right) “you can shoot a pigeon, but you can not shoot hand sanitizer” ( quoted from his pdf of blog updates ) people were dying from simple scratches that got infected.

          • Speaking of pastoral gardening, I’m finding it challenging to garden for calories and protein. I know I’m not going to live off kale and tomatoes.

            I’m not looking for advice because I live in an area with (very) unique growing conditions. I’m just wondering if others find this a challenge too: Growing grains and growing forage materials for the critters like chickens. Do some of you have this all squared away?

            Hillary Clinton pic: Drudge ALWAYS finds bizarre photos of politicians he doesn’t like.

            • Mikey, I’m facing gardening problems as well. I have a large deck with 10 garden boxes and several huge pots to grow things in, and over the last couple of years the tomatoes and peppers have done well there. Six pepper plants survived the winter and actually have baby peppers on them. I’m in central Texas, the Hill Country, and the soil is practically non-existent on top of limestone, so over the past 5 years I built an elevated fenced in garden (lots of deer here) and have 8 boxes that are 4 feet by 4 feet with the soil built up nicely now.

              However, the problem with the garden is the fierce sun in the summer months, and the last two years of drought. As if the sun is not bad enough, we get chem sprayed incredibly heavy here, constantly over the Highland Lakes that provide the water supply for the city of Austin and all the suburbs. Two days ago, the PTB began spraying in the dark and sprayed non-stop the entire morning until the sky was completely covered with trails and many of us were sick, coughing, burning and runny eyes, runny nose, nausea. My old dog got such bad pain in his ears he couldn’t stop shaking his head violently. A benedryl helped him.

              So, I now have 4 blueberry plants and 4 blackberries in the garden and getting ready to plant all types of squashes, beans, cantaloupe, cucumbers, greens in it. But I have to make tents for the planter boxes with PVC pipe and shade cloth or else the plants will be chem sprayed to death and burned by the hot sun.

              I’m praying that it is a good harvest this year so I can dehydrate a lot of good veggies and pack fruit in the freezer or dehydrate it as well.

              • Wow, you have done some planning and work! It goes to show how important it is to start gardening early to find out ahead of time what the hurdles will be.

                The good news is– you won’t have to worry about spraying in a SHTF scenario!

            • This is my first year of growing animal grains, but I remember what my grandpas did so I’m trying. I work with an American Indian and he taught me the following: First find a well traversed spot (tracks)in the woods and dig a hole about the size of a 5 gal bucket but a little deeper and sprinkle corn in the bottom of the hole. TO catch a wild turkey, leave a trail of corn/grain, which meanders thru the woods or fields, and then circles the hole, gradually narrowing the distance closer and closer. The turkey is so consumed with eating the corn and going around in circles, it just follows the grain which leads right to the edge of the hole; the turkey sees/smells the corn and falls into the hole to eat the corn on the bottom but cannot get out. Supposedly, one can easily dispatch the turkey while it is in the hole. I shall try this next time.

        • How much gold would it have taken for someone to give
          up their seat on the lifeboat when the Titanic had it’s
          Mad Max moment in 1912?

          • It wasn’t PMs used to determine who had a seat—the majority of the seats were taken by the upper crust, while the others had to fight for theirs. It is interesting that there were enough seats to save hundreds more people, had they FILLED the boats before casting them off. I guess the elites valued their elbow room, more than human beings even then.

        • Its all going to come down to skills, the right skills, and knowing how to use the tools that come with those skills. Security skills, knowing how to be a rifleman, not just knowing how to use a rifle. Survival skills, medical skills, farming, gardening, knowing how to lay low and not drawing attention to yourself and family. Join a group of like minded people, that all have different skills.

        • Your mind is your primary weapon…

          Back when I was young, starry-eyed, and idealistic, I held such high hopes for the future of Humanity, and Earth. Then, I started learning the truth about who is running the show, and what their goals are…

          I kind of doubt things will go Mad-Max, as most people would rather kneel for 1984-style slavery. The only way things could go Mad-Max, is the parasites not getting their way, and destroying the world, in a scorched-Earth manner, which they are quite capable of doing…

          It could get rough, though. Might want to consider putting back a Liberator, maybe plastic might be more valuable than any gold (Looking over the parts, it could easily be adapted to non-plastic manufacture.)…

          • I hope everyone on here has downloaded the CAD files for the new printable gun while they’re still available. Even if you can’t use them yourself, they need to be preserved for someone else.

        • BI,

          Two ‘good’ choices to be sure….

          But things could be worse and very soon….

          Search: “Global Coastal Event”

          Anybody here ever heard of this one? I’ve been studying this for 5 years and seriously feel it is almost here. Probably later this month.

          Oh Boy….

        • Mad MAX is not going to be. People need to get real. The worse it gets the faster it gets over. The absolute worst thing would be a solar event, US estimates 90% die off in 18 months. There’s no Mad Max, people simply starve. Where was Max getting the gas? First time you run out of gas car stops. Plenty of land. tools, stuff everywhere. Hide wait. You cannot grow crops. hungry people will rip them out of the ground before they are ripe. I think the 18 months is to long, one winter when you didn’t plant that spring and it’s all over.

          • @ Paranoid. A solar event with the cosmic radiation behind it would be beyond awful. An EMP will cause mass die off, but it will not affect what is left that has been refined that is not electronic based. Tools, finished products, etc. will provide much for the population that is left. An EMP will not affect the climate as it did not back in 1859. Other than what is modern technology, everything will remain the same. It is more than fully adaptable to the people that have a brain to work with like the people here, the preppers/survivalists.

            A true plague is what everybody should be concerned with because natural or even engineered viruses can literally kill 100% of a species, as this happens all throughout planetary history to animals and plants alike. An Andromeda style virus could stay in reserviors such as animal carriers, or just in the environment waiting for the last of the hosts to come in contact with it. Too often species that have thrived and ended up extinct from not an asteroid impact or worldwide super volcanoes, but disease.

            Full scale nuclear war is another mega shtf event. With WW3 the planet itself will be affected, especially the ozone layer. If those idiots salt the nukes, the radioactive fallout would last for decades and leave hot zones all over the planet. Nuclear war destroys physical of what everyone has manufactured, on top of the EMP’s that will be generated. When a losing side is in danger of being conquered, they will use their nuclear bombs. War is inevitable, and the chances increase each year that it doesn’t happen.

            Anohter mass die off would when a super volcano goes off like human beings that almost went extinct when Toba blew 74000 years ago. It is estimated that when a Yellowstone eruption occurs it will drop the worldwide temperatures about 20 degrees F. The Gulf Stream would be no more and europe would freeze over and the southeast of the U.S. would become arid like Arizona. The climatic effects would be very strange, as some areas would get wetter and others much drier. Crops would fail almost everywhere from the shock alone. The sun would be blocked out for months and lack of sunlight would kill plants right and left. The air would be poisoned in many spots with sulfur.

            An asteroid impact, or comet, which happens again and again over the course of Earth history is far worse than an EMP. Multiple several times the effects of a super volcano with even a 2 mile wide asteroid hitting the planet. The atmosphere within almost an entire hempishere would light up and burn. The acid rain from this would be catastrophic. An EMP would also be generated from the blast of an asteroid, nopt planet wide, but enough.

            An EMP is bad, but the amount of physical destruction from events that have occurred before and will again are in reality a lot worse. We need to understand that Mad Max can happen, something a lot worse can happen and will happen one day. Just imagine having 18 years without a crop rather than 18 months. Many species now just fossils went through exactly this.

            • Sorry but we have had at least 3 Coronal Mass Ejections in recorded history Look at Carrington event 1858? Your analysis does tfit the facts.

          • Agree with Paranoid. It’s funny how all the doom movies set in future still have gas and electricity somehow. Most people will have to simply die in place or be carted by rail to FEMA camps for rations and microchipping if that level of “service” is available.

            Also, I’ve wondered for a while how the heck I’m going to keep people from raiding the garden and I’m beginning to see that that could be hopeless. Luckily my partner has been into buying stored food. I’ve always thought that was the lazy way out but now I see they could become very important that first year.

            I’m also starting crops that don’t look like crops.

      4. Forget gold?, right now I’d rather have any extra funds invested in precious metals than stocks, bonds, mutual funds, or any other “paper” asset including “paper” gold and silver investments. No, I won’t forget PM’s, and I believe the author is wrong. In the meantime, I’ll keep buying supplies, including seeds (which European governments want to control now), food, medical supplies, etc. But I will not disregard PM’s.

        • I agree Mordecai — Gold is DEFINITELY a better place to park money than paper —- This article specifically refer to “Mad Max” scenarios where people will be more concerned with food and fresh water than anything else. By no means do I think we should ignore gold! (I maybe should have tried a different title!)

          • Mac, most of us know what you mean. I think it was the perfect title. After all, everyone that has been here for any length of time at all know that you highly recommend PMs. I agree, it should be a part of prepping.

            However; you really hit the nail on the head with, “Gold, while it is certainly a store of value, will often take a backseat in the midst of collapse simply because food, shelter and safety will be the only concerns that matter.

            The key word is “backseat”. I believe there will be a segment of preppers that are “stocked” enough with extras, that they will still be in the “bartering market” for gold and silver, when it comes to a Mad Max scenario. Especially those that don’t believe it is the end of the world age.

            Having said all that; the “stock market balloon” is getting full, and it is full of a lot of hot air that the Feds are pumping into it. The flatus filled balloon will pop, eventually. Will it deflate with a pinhole or a split the size of the Mighty Hudson? I don’t know. But it will, and i for one, won’t be taken to the cleaners. Many will.

            Many are, and will be, making a bundle. The smart ones are investing in tangibles like food, security, and prepping goods and “PMs”. Others are going back out on a limb.
            Some will get lucky and get out just in time. But, most won’t. It will be a sad and black/dark day. Will we see it this year? I don’t know. TPTB know, without a doubt when it will be, because they will not loose anything. Just my thoughts.

            • Mac

              The problem is when you “What if”, we ultimately keep adding more and more possibilities foe prepping and if we aren’t careful this can be overwhelming. I prep for three general contingencies.
              1. The one to three week scenario that comes from natural disasters or a local civil disturbance.
              I live near Houston so hurricanes are a yearly prep issue and I have experienced this scenario so I’m somewhat comfortable with my prep.
              2. The one to ten month scenario that to me is a result of regional civil disturbance, armed conflict or an INTENSE regional natural disaster. I believe in this scenario the rule of law is likely to break down. The dollar will be worthless but PM’s are a likely asset as it can retain value with little storage space as opposed to the value bags of rice, beans, wheat etc… which are perishable and bulky.
              3. The third is the true TEOTWAWKI scenario where even Mad Max would be considered luxury conditions. Money of any type will be useless as anarchy will prevail.

              I personally believe the first two scenarios are quite likely and as a result I spend the bulk of my efforts in prepping for them. The third however I don’t believe can truly be prepared for you can just increase your chances for survival by having food, water, shelter and skills. Being aware of what is going on is my only real asset. This site is a huge resource for the articles and just as important the “helpful” responses. Thanks for the site Mac.


          • I would wager that if such a scenario came about, the average Jane and Joe would probably find the current coin money valuable, maybe moreso than gold, and/or silver, which most people have never even held in their hands, unless they had a piece of jewelry made from it.

            On a very basic level of functioning society, a stack of nickels, dimes and quarters may be as valuable a trading commodity as a gram of silver. Something to consider.

            • Yeah, read Ferfal about Argentina in the ’90s. Golds not much good when it gets really bad, not even Mad Max bad but just really 5H!77Y economy, deflation of currency bad. So few people can verify if its really gold, think now even of the fake gold being sold on the American market today (really good opportunity to get royally 5CR3W3D). And having that much on you is a good way to get beaten and robbed or killed in a SHTF environment. The only exception is if you are really rich and already have ALL of your prep bases covered have enough ready cash and have some cash you’d like to use in 15 or 20 years after WWIII. Then think about gold but hide it well as not only conventional thieves but probably the Fed Gov’t will confiscate/steal gold when it gets bad enough.

          • The Mad Max world won’t last forever.

            At some point, there will be some form of stability that will return. When that happens, some practical means of exchange will be established. HISTORICALLY….gold and silver are that medium of exchange. Gold and silver were the medium BEFORE the Dark Ages…and they resumed that role AFTER.

            I would not hold PM’s to the exclusion of everything else. Food, medicines, hygiene products, guns, ammo etc. are far more important to have. But most people can only store so much of the items. And if you are forced to relocate, you have the problem of transporting those things.

            There is a reason why barter is not the primary means of doing business. It is simply too difficult to accomplish easily. The values of items are too subjective and difficult to ascertain. THIS is the purpose of having money. It is a store of value that is easily recognized.

            The thing I get amused at is people who are depending upon paper assets. I heard a guy on the radio the other day pushing a paper asset and he guarantees that investors will not lose their principle no matter what the markets do. Really? How can someone guarantee such a thing? He is making the assumption that even if SHTF, those paper promises will still be honored. (Specifically, he was selling contracts on people’s life insurance policies) How will those promises be honored if the companies issuing those securities go bust? Government guarantees? In a Mad Max situation, there will no longer be a government….at least not one that will guarantee those kinds of obligations. And how would they honor it even if they tried? Payment in fiat currency?

            I once heard of a guy who discovered that he had a bond issued by the government back in the 1860’s. Based on the rate of interest of the bond, he was due several hundred thousand dollars. But guess what… was a bond issued by the Confederate States of America. What was its value? Other than some collector value….it was worth the paper it was written on.

            It has been said before, but bears repeating….NO ASSET BASED UPON DEBT CAN BE TRUSTED.


            If you don’t hold it….you don’t own it. And if you can’t protect it….you won’t hold it for long.

            • the first couple weeks will be fucked, after that it will ease a little only because the starting knee jerk reactions will be gone, but will not get any better as far the difficulties.

              If it goes Mad Max, say goodbye.

              Unless you group up and not a small group. Read some of Selco’s postings over at shtf school. And or his book. I do believe someone posted this yesterday or Tuesday.


              Was a great read I mulled over and read thru his postings last night. This dude is the real shit he lived it in a scenario not even we will be imagining. He was trapped. There was no going to the country side, there was no hunting game. He DID GO ONE STEP FURTHER a few times eating pigeon and even rat, as I stated before about the NY dumpster divers, no one should of starved in the land of pigeons and rats the size of cats.

              Thinking about gold and silver seems to be what should be Last if even at all on our minds.

              From what I gathered from Selco so far is.

              #1 Fire Arms and Ammo ( even if you got shit to trade how will you get to where you will trade ?)

              #2 Hygiene ( was shocked on this one but i realized he is right) “you can shoot a pigeon, but you can not shoot hand sanitizer” ( quoted from his pdf of blog updates ) people were dying from simple scratches that got infected.

      5. Like I said on numerous occasions, a box of Mac-N-Cheese will probably have more value than gold in a SHTF scenario. 😉

        • That’s Mad-Max-N-Cheese.

        • If you eat that shit and believe what you just said you are fucked.

        • If we had some ham we could make ham sandwiches if we had some bread.

          Just sayin’.

        • NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD HAS A PERSON WITH GOLD STARVED WHILE THERE WAS ANY FOOD AROUND. Find me one example. I keep hearing this argument: It’s a stupid waste of cyberspace, Yes, if you are trying to swim the Atlantic a ton of gold isn’t useful. Nor is a ton of shark bait hamburger. If you are totally broke and you have the choice of a silver dime or a Whopper, take the burger. That’s not the point. I cannot carry a thousand Whoppers, They are not practical to trade, they rot in 3 days, The world has condoms and sledge hammers, they are NOT interchangeable.


            Uh… say what?

            That’s kind of an odd, overblown statement. If he/she starved, how in the hell am I supposed to find him/her?

            Dig up the remains?

            “Yep. This here corpse with the bag of gold looks really skinny. There’s your proof.”


            • There are written records of lots of bad situations, In all of then you could read of people buying food, look it up. Not overblown true

              • I never doubted that people bought food in bad situations.

                I was commenting on the statement which claimed with absolute certainty:


                C’mon. You don’t have any way of knowing that or substantiating such a thing.

                I mean – never in the history of the world..??

                That’s a pretty broad brush you paint with there.

                Just saying.

                • So ;find an example.

                  • I give up.

                    You just keep making nonsense statements.

                    You win. See you on the next one.

      6. My precious metals are steel and copper-jacketed lead.

        I have some gold & silver but I’m not going to rely on it as much as my own skill sets.

        • You took the words out of my mouth. Brass and lead are the only metals precious to me. Food, water, and protection come before wealth. If someones at my doorstep wanting to barter with PM I wouldn’t give up a bottle of vitamins.

          BTW Vitamin C needs to be in abundance in every SHTF prepper kit so no one gets scurvy. I know its hard to store most acidic foods for long periods of time so I choose vitamin C tablets and gummies.

          Happened to stop by the local farm store yesterday for dog food and found 6 more boxes of 9m ammo. 🙂 !! I only buy from dealers who aren’t rapping people. I of the theory the only reason there is an ammo shortage is because people are hourding bullets. Places like walmart start the shipments are the same as before the run so a scared public is the reason not the DHS purchase. (not to say its not alarming they are buying hollow points)

          GOD BLESS and Thanks to Mac and everyone who makes this site possible!!!

          • You can take a handful of pine needles and boil them in a cup of water. When you drink it you will recieve more vitamin C than you would from a half gallon of OJ..
            War thog

            • @ Warthog:

              Good caveat: be sure to add some sort of sweetener if you’ve got it. Pine needle tea tastes like turpentine. Sweetened, it still tastes like turpentine, but a bit of sugar or stevia will make it a wee bit more palatable.

              • honey.

            • Also can take the seeds from the pine cones to roast and eat. Inside bark of the tree is good. Base of the tree is great for a quick shelter. Pines are a gift from God use them well.

          • You can grow your own sources of vitamin C. Red and green sweet peppers, strawberries, Brussels sprouts, and cantaloupes are good sources. The red sweet peppers have more vitamin C than oranges have. You can make strawberry preserves or jam. Brussels sprouts can be canned. Even tomatoes can be dried for later. Other fruits and vegetables have lesser amounts of vitamin C. Rose hips contain vitamin C.

            The canned Brussels sprouts might last even longer than vitamin C tablets.

            • As long as I have a choice, you can bet on it

            • As long as I have a choice, you can bet on it

          • Vitamin C crystals have a longer shelf life than Tang.

            • Lots of plants benefit from pine needle mulch.

              • Acid loving plants, blueberries, i think any berries, got to be careful, easy to go acidic, not as easy to go alkaline

        • I saw a t-shirt back in 2000 that said AMMO, CURRENCY OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM. Looking at the current prices and how hard it is to get, I would say the slogan was very profound.

      7. I agree. I don’t know why this always is presented as “either/or” — that is a false choice. There are good reasons for each prep, including PMs.

      8. @ Mac. Did you get that article I sent you last night? Did you like reading it? I see each day our freedom dying, and these idiots that are quickening it along by supporting the government’s agenda of blackening out most or all of the Constitution. While I don’t think such a governmental grab of power would lead to a Mad Max situation, it could. I fear seeing these science fiction movies in which all citizens are watched and have implants in their bodies like some Borg in Star Trek. When I saw that BO was trying to establish a way of mapping the human brain, all I could think of was chemical or electronic induced lobotomies to control the population. I wonder what will be next. Surprises and black swans seem to be in the air.

        • Yea BI, he (BO) is a an egomaniac with a charismatic smile and voice, to the masses. He is evil to me.

          The masses won’t even see the dark and sinister side until it is too late. He is a precursor to the antichrist and shaping the belief system of the world for him.

          If the majority, and I mean the majority of liberals and idiots, fell for the likes of Billery, than it is no wonder they are falling over themselves for the likes of what is in the Whitehouse now. It is coming to a crashing halt soon. Prophetically and exponentially it can’t be avoided.

          If I’m wrong, and we are still in this same “holding pattern” in three years, you all can line up and throw rocks at me. Fifty feet minimum, LOL.

          • See Barton Biggs’ “Wealth, War and Wisdom” for some perspective on precious metals in medium-term collapse. It is a study of perservation of wealth by those who survived in occupied countries during WWII. (In short: the wealthy of occupied countries pulled through because they had rural farms well-stocked and well-armed, with precious metals and rare art stashed as a store of wealth for after the reset.)

            But the real point this brings to mind: we often debate on here the proper place of PMs in prepping, in relation to food, water, security, skills, etc. but there is one other longer-term prep (like PMs) that I don’t see referenced here nearly as often: stock a library with both useful skills-related books and the kind of thinking TPTB have eroded that will need to be taught to our children: the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, etc. Also, for the many religious on this site, I assume the core books of one’s faith (eg – the Bible) go without saying. Any other recommendations for the library, from a “preserve the lost philosophy” perspective?

            Prepping skills books deserve an article/list/thread of their own too!


      9. I continue to be surprised at the “you can’t eat gold” argument. For the umpteenth time, here goes: gold/silver possession is for those preppers who have EXCESS funds available AFTER stockpiling their food, water, tools, guns, ammo, etc. Some people actually have money left over AFTER fully prepping. It’s for these people that gold/silver should be included in their portfolios. If you live in a Mad Max world, yes you need preps, but what if you’ve got a million bucks and need to relocate? Try travelling from one place to the next with a million dollars worth of food and water. For portable wealth you can’t beat gold. Period.

        • T, Agreed. We have silver here, but that is for after the collapse. My buddies sister is an exec who works for one of the big investment firms and here was her thoughts on everything:

          They think (know) something big is coming, they just don’t know when. They say (think) that in the beginning that dollars will be the best thing to have because everyone knows what they are and it will take weeks or months for people to realize the dollar collapsed (I think days, but these are financial gurus here). Once that happens, it will be food water, water and land that will be the most valuable (they have all bought some) and then gold and silver when the system recovers then converts to a new currency.

          Are they right? Who knows. I tend to agree for you to even see the end part, you are gonna have to invest in copper jacketed lead. But be able to feed your family, grow a renewable source of food, and protect your close friends and family from the masses who didn’t think past last night’s dancing with the stars…..

          Keep your powder dry,

          • Even Oprah now has a farm. No kidding, check it out.

          • I have been telling my (few) stacking friends this for almost two years. I have all the PM I need. It dawned on me that you starve or die of thirst well before you have to make more than a minimal credit card payment.

            I personally believe that stackers need to wake up and realize the truth of this piece. Of course you should have PM. But I’m afraid that is, in effect, just a variation of the American Dream where we are still just “investing.”

            If it really all goes tits up–and there doesn’t seem to be a reason why it wouldn’t–simple things like clean water, enough nourishment to keep you and yours alive, and the means and will to defend yourself will, initially, be of much more significance than what I’ve stacked.

            If you haven’t got some real progress made on tangible goods, you may want to refocus off the PM for awhile. It will be there when you get back. But first you’ve got to get back.

            • Calcified,

              I agree. Like I said earlier (hopefully), PM’s are for the rebuilding phases of the Mad Max scenario. IMHO of course. But I seriously hope we never see it, but I think we will.


      10. I agree with this article. It may be upon us next week or twenty plus years, but let’s hope for more time to prep! Another thing to stockpile would be your families meds. Everything from aspirin to blood thinners. Imagine what you would give to have the health of your child, parent or crazy prepper uncle for just one more month!
        Standing ready in Daytona

      11. If you’re going to prep,and call yourself a prepper, you might as well prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised when it’s not that bad. In most of these senerios, electricity WILL BE shotty. Prepare!!!!

        Electricity supplies EVERYTHING!

        • Electricity, initially will be spotty, then non-existent for possibility a generation or more…
          That is, in a Mad Max scenario…

          You ok with context, syntax and proper word usage in this passage?

          • “Electricity, initially will be spotty, then non-existent for possibility a generation or more…”

            This is a very good point. For those of us with very little financial resources for prepping, choosing how to allocate those funds for the purchase of food, ammunition, and supplies can be very tricky and decisions could be made which are quite regrettable later.

            I have been putting off the purchase several walkie-talkies, communications gear, a ham radio rig, solar power 12v DC battery systems and scores of AA, AAA, D and other batteries to power all of these electronic items because I have to continually ask myself when I purchase items, “What are the core survival items in the even the collapse lasts for a very, very long time?” In my mind I keep returning to scenarios similar to those that have been previously mentioned, where a total worldwide collapse of civilization occurs, as the world’s financial and monetary systems are so tightly intertwined. If that happens, rechargeable batteries and a complete solar-powered electrical recharging system and associated communications gear would be rendered completely useless in a decade or so, if not sooner….

            I don’t ever want to find myself in a situation in the future where I find I wasted precious financial resources for prepping in an area that becomes non-functional, where instead I could have spent a couple thousand dollars instead on more food, hand tools, hand-wielded weapons, and ammunition.

            I often think of that scene in “The Road” where the protagonist finds that he only has a few more rounds of ammunition left…

            BTW, many thanks to Mac Slavo for putting this website together. It is great to find so many people preparing for the inevitable. God Bless all of you and may he keep you and your families safe in the coming crisis.

            • I think you should buy these items. I contend that you need to lay low and make life as easy on yourself and family during the first 3-6 months after a SHTF scenario. When the dust settles, you can take a breather and figure how to go on without these items if need be. There will be more death than most can imagine if an acute event happens. The hospitals will have untold deaths due to lack of power. Not to mention the people with ongoing medical needs, unavailable antidepressants, cardiac meds, antiarrhythmic meds, etc. Many drugs can lead to death if discontinued cold turkey. Anticonvulsants for example. Think about how many elderly and young will die of heatstroke if a summer event occurred. Things could get very nasty. Imagine thousands of hungry pets for instance roaming in search of food or becoming a source of food. Millions of desperate people and families on their death throws trying to survive. None of us will want to be in the midst of this. Going outside to cultivate a garden could be suicide. Moving at night with vision enhancement may be the safest mode of operation. This is why I say lay low and keep quiet. Millions will disappear and then we will need to figure out how to move forward long term.

            • In the beginning of a collapse, on the level we’re talking about, some wireless communication will be invaluable. Short range FRS or VHF and the means to keep them recharged can be had for not too much money.

              This is one of the few times I’ll lay out what I have.

              Two sets of FRS radios, multiple handheld VHF’s that are multi-band, having VHF/AM/FM/AIR/FRS, and yes, Weather Alert.
              In the FRS mode the multi-band tune easily to the frequencies of the other radios.
              Just think of the flexibility there.
              Now, I’ll grant you having a few of the multi-band radios may seEm, and probably does, a little overboard, no pun intended. As you may or may not know, I’ve been in the marine industry for decades. So maintaining this type of equipment is second nature to me and more than once has saved my life.
              Now, what I’ve just described will allow up to 7 people to communicate, depending on terrain, up to two miles. With three of them being able five miles and beyond. These are real world distances, not what it says on the package they come in. 😉 Thoroughly tested in multiple environments, small boats on the water to an urban setting. Open terrain, across valleys, you may get a little more based on battery strength and atmospherics. This type of com is based on line of sight. Oh, before I forget, when not in use… “THEY’RE ALL IN A CAGE“… with their charging system.

              The charging system is really quitE simple…I use marine grade PV panels, small ones that will fit in the “CAGE”. you only need three or four of the 5,10 or20 watt models…depending upon your need. You can get on line or at Harbor Freight …a friend of mine uses one of their 20W models to keep two GP27 deep cycle batteries charged on his boat primarily for the bilge pump, few LED lights and FW pump. Tops them off, and they don’t need much, every other week when he runs the engine if he doesn’t take the boat out…I was impressed that little panel was able to do that. I wired in a blocking diode for him. No discharge at night and “no need for a regulator“…being the point I wanted to make in telling you this.
              With small panels that put out in the milliamp range you can charge these small handheld radios and other things directly from a panel and not need a regulator. If the device can be plugged into a cigarette lighter plug you’re good to go.

              I could go on, but you get my point. Stay safe.

            • Good call on not wanting to waste money better spent on other stuff,
              In my mind, anything that would aid an 1800s lifestyle would be a good investment,
              Oil press
              Lamp wick
              Matches (vacuum seal them with oxy absorbers), a few million matches!
              Hand tools (carving, wood working, sickles and scythes)
              Sharpening tools (stuff for hand saws)
              Canning supplies by the pallet!

              I like looking at Amish supplies

              Remember cloth! Bolts and bolts of denim and cotton!
              Tredle sewing machine

              Clothes will be a major problem, we dont manufacture any of it in the USA any more!

              • How long would you think, canning lids would be good,, I mean is there a way to store them? Never had to think, or worry about that before.

                • Buy the reusable Tattler lids they last for years. As far as keeping unused, the regular lids last for decades and can be reused ,if you are real careful when you take them off. Survival blog advertises them.

        • Someone, somewhere will always have electricity, even if they make it themselves for 15 minutes a day. But, you are right, it will be spotty, at best. Probably one of the first things withheld by the parasites when they make their power-play.

      12. You should check out BATTLEFIELD SYRIA at MANTIS INTELLIGENCE. They have broken down the complete battle map including humanitarian assistance, militant area of operations, major battles and conflicts, and the Syrian military infrastructure. You can see how the US and Israel are assisting al Qaeda militants throughout the battle space. Interesting stuff!!!!!!!!!!

      13. After Mad Max event…I must respectfully disagree…I am accepting only PM’s for food.
        There you are…I just disproved the writer and Marty “The ExCon” Armstrong’s theory…Now we can be friends again and move on to more serious topics.

        • I’m not sure I would trust the gold to be real. I am reading there is fake gold out there. Unless you have a way to determine that it is real I will stick with accepting hard goods that I recognize like tools, raw materials, etc.

          • Agreed, unless you can assay gold, you might be getting shiny metal. I got a “good deal” on a gold necklace once, it looked good, and actually had gold in it, but it wasn’t worth the $40 I paid for it.

            There are probably lots of people stamping out good-looking low-grade bullion, in preparation for such events…

            • Pre 65 silver coins
              Easy to recognize and easy to use.

          • @peanut_gallery….

            This isn’t hard….

            1. Only accept recognized gold and silver coins (eagles, maple leafs, pre-64 dimes, quarters, halves and dollars)

            2. Know the exact dimensions and weight for each specified coin.

            3. Have a set of calipers and a gram scale. ( so you can verify the above dimensions and weight)

            Coins that match the specs are legit. Coins that don’t aren’t.

            • remember if your trading your not doing this from where you are AO’d right? Remember if you travel to the barter spots you may get robbed on the way. And yes they will probably be better armed and a larger group then you are while your traveling to a barter spot. Money is shit. Will be worth shit including PM’s during the Shtf. They are for after. Not during.

              You will find that the gold will not be worth what you think it should be worth. That 1 can of beans your trying to buy may end up costing you an OZ of gold or more.
              That ammo you may be buying may cost you the same for only a few rounds.

          • Look around. people have been testing gold for over 2000 years, it’s not that hard.

      14. Joseph Goebbels is not dead! I’ve spent a good part of today reading and re-reading the DHS assessment on Right Wing Extremism. It is the most unmitigated example of state propaganda I’ve had the misfortune to read in quite a while. The report pretty well boils down to; if you believe in and support the Constitution of the United States, especially if you are a veteran, you very well could be a right wing extremist and very possibly a potential threat to the government. The report also pretty well establishes that all “right wing extremists” are criminals as it differentiates between “right wing extremists” and “law abides Americans”. A direct quote from the report – “Federal efforts to influence domestic public opinion must be conducted in an overt and transparent manner,” And, then, “This document is unclassified for official use only. It contains information … and is not to be released to the public, the media, or other personnel who do not have a valid need to know ” so, the most efficient way to conduct business in an “overt and transparent manner” is to ensure that no information should be released to the media or the general public. ????One factor is self-evident and has been since the 1700′s – The harder the government attempts to push a free AMERICAN, the harder the free AMERICAN will push back. And, you can take that to the bank! The acronymic army of the federal bureaucracies is pushing untold millions of free Americans into what this document has labeled right wing extremism. Is anyone listening in Washington D C to the people?

        Keep the FAITH

        • Its all just sickening,
          This whole pile o crap needs to come unglued, i believe we are too far gone already and we will NEVER see the kind of good times of days gone by,
          All the liberal, idiots who speak of peace and prosperity for all and equality and progressive crap, all while anyone with old fashioned values are demonized for being prudent and conservative,
          Atlas will shrug,
          What is even worse is that there are so many who are ok with just going along with it all, dont like paying and paying but just go along, and then when someone like me gets all fired up because i actually think for myself, i am the nuts one who is over reacting,
          Im sick of having people tell me
          ” theres nothing you can do about any of it so just dont think about it ”
          What a bunch of horse crap that is, that is exactly why i feel like its a lost cause, every last one of those who tell me that crap have so much to lose but are not REALLY willing to stand up and say no more,
          Another one i hear a lot is stay under the radar and dont say anything,
          WHAT? How long you going to do that? And then when its too late? HOW DID THAT WORK FOR YA
          Fuckin dummies

          • When they lose everything anyway, and have a boot on their neck, it will be poetic, in a sad way, and still many will refuse to wake up, even as they are herded to slaughter…

            Who is John Galt, anyway?

            • Indeed,
              Who is John Gault?

          • I am one that feels that the country is gone. I will render my opinion freely at this point to any who will hear it but I sense it is falling on deaf ears. We can say “no more” but the sheep don’t respond. As long as populace has a certain level of comfort, they will allow the govt to walk all over them. I believe that the people of the country will have to go through a generation of pain in order to “snap out of it”. This is currently one sorry-ass country. I don’t care for this cliche but we as a people need a “come to Jesus moment”.

            • Thoroughly agree,
              Absent the life changing event, the majority just wont get it and will allow the political machine to continue, all the while sucking up more of everyones hard earned cash, and creeping further into everyones lives,
              Its disgusting how people are so completely snowed that we have no choice but to go along so might as well live it up, and just go along, the founders must be rolling in their graves at the disregard people have for the sacrifice that was made to give us our freedom only to have people just roll over and not give a shit.

        • Please post the site where you found this information.

        • Okay, you right wingers aren’t special victims. Lots of people are being classified as extremists. Anti-GMO people, young people that attended Occupy rallies to protest corporate oligarchy. Keep remembering it’s the super rich against the rest of us, not the left against the right.

          If you go to left wing blogs they’re equally convinced the right-wingers want to take away freedoms. They’ve been tricked, too. There are LOTS of left leaning preppers.

          • Some mundane drones are just so unwilling to understand and accept the idea of ‘divide and conquer’.

            excellent comment Mike

            • agreed mikey 100% also and I know others here will too as some of us are the advocates of destroying the line that THEY the CORP made for us.

              How can we call others sheep if we ourselves can not see the line they drew to keep us torn apart?

              Are we awake or are we just opening our eyes and still have sleep in them ourselves?
              Proof has been given over and over to the fact that they are doing what They want all of them, dem, rep, con, and lib.

              Not every white is a racist, not every black is a gang banger or well fare momma, not every mexican is illegal, not every muslim is a terrorist.

              Note even with the boston bombing at first they were talking about militias, Patriots, and constitutionalists.
              Note that when they went after that kid in the trailer they pointed to his blogging talking about how he talks shit about the gov. and one thing they pointed out was he was pro 1st amendment. ( how the fuck is a news org going to talk shit about someone taking up the first amendment eh? just shows the control they are under. )

              They have pushed us to this point THEY have drew these lines that we stand in still. Even preppers and survivalists are still sleeping if we can not see that it is not right and left, and is the ones we put in charge. ( we as the people not we as in those here noting almost none voted for ob. here )

              When will it be time to stop the balking and talking we do and start organizing? ( again we as in people not us here then again it could somewhat go for some of us too I would think )

              • Thanks for the comments. I think we really are fighting a sleep as you say. It’s both funny and sad how people fight so emotionally to maintain those lines, as you describe, that they set out for us.

                I think the time to start organizing is now, but we have to start organizing around the other structures in place and just begin to ignore them when possible. I think this process can’t be forced because there are too many people that are content to not rock the boat so long as they still have a job and a house. If we take things on head on, we’re labeled an extremist, not just by the government but by the people on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

                So the process will be driven by crisis. It’s starting now with people showing renewed interest in everything local– famers markets, urban chicken raising, etc. But right now it’s still a “lifestyle” thing– locally grown food as a healthy choice as opposed to for being something we need or we die. Or: composting because it’s ecologically wise as opposed to composting because no one’s hauling away our trash anymore. If the economic decline drags out for much longer, people will need to come together as counties struggle financially and volunteers are needed to keep certain things going.

                Then all of this small organizing will be in chaos or go underground when things fall apart and maybe, later on, people who have some skills could come together to do the real organizing and work.

      15. Trading in gold after SHTF will be as easy as trading with $100,000 bills today.

        Buy seeds, not gold. If you want a precious metal then go for silver.

        • I agree totally. I have some silver, a little tiny piece of gold (not sure why I bought that 1/4 oz piece), lots of seeds and the ability to restock from year to year. Heck, I have growing heirlooms for as long as I have been gardening. My grandfather bought a whole bunch of seeds out of Kentucky, and we have growing the same stuff since the 30’s. I hope he looks down from heaven and smiles every spring when I replant his varieties. I personally believe we will see the end game begin before the next winter. I wouldn’t mind one more growing season.

          • As many here know Ive been saving and improving seeds for many years and especially proud of the corn…I was fairly isolated here for years and could breed true seed…this year the old farm next door got rented to a guy I know who is a non-selfmade millionare(he uses and steals to get it)he decided hes gonna make big money in corn….GMO Roundup crap posing as corn…right on my north border…so for the first time in years I wont be planting my old corns…theyd be ruined by the pollen from the fankencorn…Im packing away enough for a good start in 2018 when his lease runs out(hopefully)…it saddens me that this is what its come to but until people stop growing this crap and eating it and allowing it we are going to lose our seed inheritance….wish I could afford to move to a new well isolated farm back in Dixie but thats not really an option so Ill keep doing what I can!…best of luck to y’all

          • men like you from the old school will make it to the other side.

            I’m praying and have been working my whole life to get there also.

            perhaps we will meet.

            “don’t go down without one helluva fight”

        • If history is a lesson, that is not true. The phrase “pieces of eight” refers to cutting a spanish gold sovereign, like a pizza, into 8 slices…hence “pieces of eight”

          • Interesting you bring that up because it was actually the Spanish Silver Dollar that was broken up into eight pieces for trading. 🙂

            Seeds and Silver…

            • Still incorrect. The “piece of eight” was an intact Spanish silver coin worth eight reals.

              • Both right, Look up Spainish 8 real coin, and origin of saying Two bits, four bits, 8 bits a dollar.

      16. I’m selling my camp and paying off everything. I can rent camps anywhere and debt free sounds really good. I will miss it though.

        • The “burden” of debt is a tough thing to swallow, even in good times with $$ flowing.

          When SHTF and there is virtually no jobs and hardly any buying and selling, the burden will be like a dagger in a person’s gut and soul. Digging and slicing like a never ending heartburn.

          People with mountains of debt, which include a big mortgage, may have to walk away from everything they can’t carry or drag with them.

          What a crying shame to have to leave everything worked for, over a lifetime. But, it may be no longer an option. If the means aren’t there to get completely out of debt before the big “collapse”, then you “nutbag”, are one step ahead of the masses.

          Good luck, and May God Bless!

          • Thanks DT . it still feels crappy selling the camp we worked so hard for and on, but it’s the right thing to do. I’ve been lucky with work but it may not last forever.

      17. Most people don’t know about the “federal Reasserve” being a private corp. .. they don’t understand fake paper money.. if you have your preps covered, and if you have the wealth to keep gold, I would if I were you. Water, food, shelter, security, health, welfare, should all come first. After that, some PM’s. I knew people who said in the next 2 years, for sure” in 1975. They later threw away their 30 year old storage food. We didn’t own any. We do now. And we rotate stock and eat what we store. Freeze dried stuff is very tasty and great for making tasty meals and snacks. We buy less crap in the stores and more #10 cans. If you get a bit
        ahead, it isn’t going out of date any time soon. So summertime, massive garden. But always have the assortment of stuff from those #10 cans to fill in the gaps.

        • Paid advertisement by LearCapital, and the Ready Store.

      18. Long time viewer, longtime prepper. Marc I just think you do your readers a disservice by leaving them hopeless. Unless the lights go out on the entire planet, there will always be a need for a medium to trade, sure it may be food in the beginning, but eventually organization will return, and gold and silver will more likely then not, be that medium.


      19. Gold is for when you have all your preps together… and you still have lots of money… why is this hard for people to get… unless you start buying silos, you can only buy so much grain and beans…

        • I agree, with old saying that ( never keep all your eggs in one basket) you got to keep your bases covered,prepare for the worse case and HOPE it never happens

      20. I always wanted to have plenty of food. My drive for it has always been to never have enough. I still plan to have some PMs handy for the those who’d want them instead of other items during a barter event. There are still other areas where I have excelled in concerning preps and other areas that are lacking.

      21. Grocery shopping,dehydrating,canning,stocking up on otc medicines a wise investment.

      22. Your alleged “transfer of wealth” from the poor and the working class to the wealthy is bullshit. The Forbes 400 own more wealth collectively than the poorest 155 million americans do. Putting up $10,000 on a $100K townhouse doesn’t mean you own a $100 K asset. It means you have ten percent equity and are $90K in debt. A rusting pickup truck in the drive way and a closet full of clothes, a TV in every room … aren’t wealth. The Middle Class as you imagine it is propaganda you’ve fallen for. So that claim is bullshit.

        The “dark ages” comment misses the point. When EUROPE was one band of animal skin wearing savages murdering another band scholars in Muslim societies preserved classical knowledge from Greece and Rome. And invented their own. Not what you’ve heard? /Read some Bernard Lewis, Princeton Middle EAst historian, and get back to me.

        The PM is worthless in a Mad Max situation creates a straw man that has appeared on almost every thread here for several years. True, they are no substitute for food, water, a chest full of hand tools, some IFA and arms. But sooner or later they will be valuable. Around the world, across history’s sweep, even if not All The Time, they have been valued by those who had them.

        AS you and various commenters have noted, there are a variety of possible scenarios for the future. NOBODY can more than speculate which several will happen or in what order.

        All one can do is prepare now and enjoy life while one can. Because sooner or later, everyone on this board will hear that knock on the door. It will be Government calling to steal what you have laid aside. And to drag you into their death camp.

        When that happens, it may not be Game On for everyone. Your neighbors may be on their front lawn sipping lemonade watching them cart away the neighborhood weirdo. But it will be Game On or Game Over … for YOU.

        So I’m not too worried about “a six centuries long Dark Age” that will spell curtains for exactly all of us.

        • And islam has created NOTHING since the time of mohammed. Two exceptions would be the car bomb and suicide vest. Career day in any muslim school is long and monotonous–“Is there anybody here who DOESN’T want to be a martyr?”

          • Welcome to the islamic world.please set your clocks back 600 years.

          • Actually you are not quite right, they did some good work back in the first half if the 1500’s.Had one or two actually honorable guys. Not so good last 3-400.

        • I think you’ve mixed up your calendars. Islam came into being around 600 AD–long after Cro-Magnon had disappeared from the earth. Yes, there were Nomadic tribes in parts of europe, but remember, Greece and Italy were also part of Europe. Muhammad and his pals were as murderous as any Germanic tribe, converting most “Infidels” at the point of a sword…

          • You Sir, have studied your history.

            The masses have swallowed the PC crap on the creation of Islam and how bad Muslims can really be.

        • Actually Europeans preserved quite a lot of the Greek and Roman knowledge in the Benedictine monasteries. What made the European “Dark Age” dark was that the Moslem horde cut off the supply of papyrus from Egypt. Papyrus was the only cheap form of paper, so common recordkeeping became impossible, as did the preservation of literacy among the masses. The monasteries used parchment, (scraped and dried sheepskins) which were very costly, but lasted forever. The history of the Benedictines is an object lesson for all preppersw, by the way. . . .

          And Europeans generally weren’t savages – most of the so-called Barbarians who over-ran the Roman Empire were literate, (in Latin, even) and Christian. Rome has become so corrupt by the 400s that in areas of Gaul the Goths were welcomed a liberators by Roman citizens. But the collapse of literacy and with it the economy did lead to a great rise in criminal activity, poverty and in some places mass starvation.

          The people who did the work of preserving knowledge in Muslim-dominated areas were by and large dhimmi Jews and Christians, by the way, not Moslems at all. The famous stories of European scholars flocking to Spain to study books from Moslem “libraries” after the liberation? Mostly what they were after was what we would consider pornography today. That Arabic number system and the concept of zero? Came from India.

          Bernard Lewis is one of a cadre of anti-Western and anti-Christian “historians” of the 20th century who are now being revealed as charlatans. The books of Henri Pirenne and Alfonse Dopsche in the early 20th century began to reveal the so-called “Golden Age of Islam” as a myth. The anti-Western crowd supressed much of what they wrote, but archaeology of the last 30-40 years is proving them to have been right. Just like the Venona transcripts proved that Joe McCarthy was right.

          Best current “popular” book on the subject is “Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited”, by Emmett Scott. New English Review Press 2012.

          • Old Coach, neo-cons love to dump on Lewis because he doesn’t give them fodder for their rah rah kill them all ignorance. would you please document your smear of Bernard Lewis. He is/was so anti-Western that he is a history professor on the Princeton faculty, teaching the power elite kids how to rule us. Anti-Christian he may or may not be. Do we want ONLY the Christian view of Muslim peoples? Now that’s gonna be very helpful understanding them. (sarcasm)Not being a Christian or Western apologist presents a divergent point of view. Hearing only what we want to hear may be comforting but it leaves one unequipped for reality. Have added Emmett Scott to my Amazon wish list.

            • Pleas share with us exactly how much does al jezeera pay their trolls?

              • Tears: It takes more brains and more balls to challenge the power elite’s lies than ignorant trailer trash suck ups like you have.

                • I know,NEIGHBOR.

      23. In a Mad Max situation, sure.

        But guess what: you can starve to death, or die of cold ( because you can’t afford fuel or are homeless ), or die of a medical condition, or a dozen other problems, WAITING ON A MAD MAX SITUATION because you are BROKE because you held paper promises the bankers are TELLING YOU they intend to break.

        Ask any retiree from 1990 era Russia, or any current Argentinian or Zimbawaen, and so on.

        SO, while first priority should always be stuff you can use, such as food, fuel, ammo, there IS a limit to the amount it’s practical to store.

        I store a LOT of food….4-5 years worth at least…home canned, commercially canned, freeze dried, live and on the hoof/paw/etc….don’t tell me “buy more food”….

        I opened a can ( I check and use stuff from time to time ) just the other day of 1995 vintage veggie stew blend, and it was RAUNCHY…..(#10 can, vac packed, with O2 absorber).

        Let’s say I bought one case of it back then @ (6 cans)for 50 bucks…..and put the price of another case in a 1/10 ounce gold eagle. ( gold was 350 bucks then, so a 1/10 ounce would have been about the same 45-50 bucks…..they get quite a premium on little gold coins )

        Fast forward to today. I’m throwing out the case of stew, or maybe the chickens/pigs will eat it, but I ain’t. The 1/10 ounce gold coin I can sell to APMEX for $164.

        Would I have been better off in 1995 to have bought 2 cases of the stew blend, or 1 case and one coin ?

        You decide.

        And quit hollering about Mad Max and the SHTF….if it really does happen, about 99% of the general public and about 95% of the people that frequent this board are GONNA DIE. I include myself in that last %. And if you don’t include yourself, take a year off from buying anything….food, water, fuel, electricity, everything and report back at the end of the year if you’re still alive.

        About the BEST we’re gonna do is slightly increase our odds of making it…and maybe all we’re doing is making ourselves a HUGE target for every staving local Bubba with a house full of starving kids and a rusty 30-30 and half a box of shells.

        What you better really plan for is exactly what is happening and has been happening since 1913….the FED is debasing paper money and at some point they are gonna squeeze YOU to the point you CAN’T buy much of anything.

        Alrighty…..flame away….I got my Nomax undies on….ahahahaaaaa

        • Yep, store what you eat, eat what you store
          I usually follow that rule, canned corned beef on rice is always good, especially with some home grown onions carmelized in there, or pasta, chinese noodles, just boil them snd then stir fry them with home grown veggies, some soy sauce and homemade sweet sour (catsup and vinegar and corn starch) beans beans the musical fruit………
          Stewed tomatoes!
          I bought some of that freeze dried stuff, AAAaaKk
          I can do way better with my American pressure canner and then i know what the heck is in the bottle!
          Got no money for PMs so it goes to seeds if i need them, stuff for the farm i cant grow, chemicals or fertilizer, (yes even organics are chemicals of a sort, just derived from an organic source)
          Sore what you eat, eat what you store, will never go wrong.

          • kulafarmer:

            Have you ever eaten a humuhumu nukunuku apua’a???

            • might not be kulafarmer but i have had the lagoon type never tried the reef, is there a dif in taste or anything?

        • TnAndy,

          OK… Got da blow torch in hand, forgot the damn matches.

          Really wanted to turn the heat up on your tail tonight, burn those No-Mad-Max panties off. 🙂

          We’re still drinking Y2K coffee (regular package) and the mrs. and I still can’t taste the difference. (No accounting for taste buds when possum was for dinner.) 🙂

          We still store more food and energy than PM’s

          Of course we would like to have more PM’s in the mason jar out back. (Don’t look under Ole’ bullets dog house.)

          Seriously… PM’s will always have a place. We just don’t put all our eggs in one basket. The food is just a insurance policy we hope to never hope to collect on.

          If we have to open that can of cherry pie filling again, we hope to trade it for a gold ounce. 🙂

          Hey that’s a fair trade… an ounce of metal for a tin of cherries that taste like metal. 🙂

          Y’all enjoy your evening.

          hillbilly SC

          • ~~~We’re still drinking Y2K coffee (regular package) and the mrs. and I still can’t taste the difference. (No accounting for taste buds when possum was for dinner.)~~~

            Nice to know since I have (8) 30 oz cans bought for $6 each a few years ago. Thanks.

        • @TnAndy…..

          “And quit hollering about Mad Max and the SHTF….if it really does happen, about 99% of the general public and about 95% of the people that frequent this board are GONNA DIE. I include myself in that last %. And if you don’t include yourself, take a year off from buying anything….food, water, fuel, electricity, everything and report back at the end of the year if you’re still alive.

          About the BEST we’re gonna do is slightly increase our odds of making it…and maybe all we’re doing is making ourselves a HUGE target for every staving local Bubba with a house full of starving kids and a rusty 30-30 and half a box of shells.”

          Well said Andy….

          I’ve tried to make this point myself on several occasions. More specifically…I’ve said that the one thing we are all going to have to have a lot of….and THE one thing that you cannot buy….is just plain old luck.

          Guess what? Most of us aren’t going to be lucky.

          The saying goes, “Luck favors the prepared mind”, is undoubtedly true. However….it is not a guarantee.

          A person may do EVERYTHING exactly right, and still become a victim of the next flu pandemic….or catch a round from some doofus with an old .22 rifle waiting in ambush.

          Folks should read Selco’s accounts of his experience surviving the war in the Balkans. I’m sure he would be the first to tell you that while you do not survive by being stupid, you nevertheless can have the survival skills of the most trained special forces operative, and still end up dead.

          At best…..we play the hand we are dealt, and hope for the best.

          I will not give up….but I have no illusions about any guarantees of survival….no matter how well I’ve prepared.

      24. There are so many ways stuff could hit the fan. And it may not be just one catastrophe, it may be a series of several. As such, the value of food, water, and usable stuff will go up greatly in a breakdown. But I would be willing to sell food for PM’s at the right price.

        There is no guarantee the whole world will collapse equally. From what I can tell most nations on this planet treat rich immigrants and visitors immensely better than poor ones.



      26. Has anyone ever been to the LL Bean megastore in Freeport, ME?

        • Get some of their carefree unshrinkable Ts
          Most comfy t shirts ive ever bought.

        • Ayuh.

          • nobody likes my maine-isms? ffs.

            • ” you can’t get therya, from heaya”.

        • Has anyone been to LL Bean? Wow risen are you desperate for attention today or what?

          • Well, it’s Eisenkrautz. I’m new around here, but already it’s clear that he’s the troll.

            Still, the LL Bean superstore is something to behold… the holy grail in the world of outdoorsgoods. They have a trout pond in there.

            • Risen’s statements are a cry for attention and validation. Sounds like a fun store tho. Welcome to the world of eisen and the rest of us. We are not at all like him. You will see.

              • Oh, I see. It’s all good fun in here.

                • do agree with his

                  SUPPORT ADAM KOKESH

                  MARCH ON WASHINGTON

      27. There was an article I read several years ago that included one man’s dream. I cannot recall it verbatim, but here is the just of it. The Man was offered the opportunity to choose between a sack of gold, and a dead cat. He chose the cat, because you cannot eat gold. That being said, I believe it is fool hardy to have FRN’s. Tangible assets can be bartered, I just ordered some extra sewing needles for the wife’s treadle sewing machine. It seems that as well prepped as you think you may be, there is always something more you can find that can be useful for living or barter when this whole thing comes unhinged. I for one am a guns and butter type. I will leave all the bullion for those who have there perimeter secured ( as if that is possible )

        Potato out

        • That reminds me to check the needle situation with our treadle sewing machine. Neighbor has one too. Also get extra belts if possible. Tied rags will work in a pinch. My mother did that in home ec back in the 1940s when the belt broke on the school sewing machine.

      28. never forget, this is the position that the crooked political class has put you, this country, and the world in, while enriching themselves, their buddies, and their families, while the bulk of societies around the world languish, suffer. these politicians are psychopaths.

      29. All that matters, is what matters to you. Lots of diversity on what will come about and to cover all the bases it a monumental feat. As per TnAndy, I do the percentages of living is on the small side, but I’m going to give it hell trying. It is all about options and opportunities and how you use them.

      30. I just picked up some 100 can cases of sardines and more 5 pound bricks of vacuum packed multigrains. I’ll be right popular with the walking dead when the time comes.

        • A few days ago I ate a couple cans of sardines in mustard sauce I bought back in 1999 or so. Were still ok, but tasted Very tinny or metalic from the can. I mean VERY metalic taste! But still edible and no upset stomach or any ill effects. If starving even metalic taste wont matter. But it sure was VERY metalic!

        • Perhaps the walking deads cat.

      31. Howdy, Watchman, and I have to agree that Goebbels would have been overflowing with pride. I’ve said this on this forum many times and it bears repeating. NOTHING THIS GOVERNMENT DOES HAS ANY LEGITIMATE BASIS TO IT WHATSOEVER, ESPECIALLY DHS. I fit their profile for an ALLEGED “domestic terrorist” to a T. The biggest difference between us and the feds is that we believe in this country and want to save it. The feds hate this country and want to destroy it. The feds make clear with words and deeds every day what their intentions are toward us, and it’s damned sure not to play pattycake with us. DHS is gearing up for war against us, plain and simple. As far as I’m concerned, none of us have any obligation to a government that says they’re going to destroy us and that’s the only time you can believe any government official when they say they’re going to kill you. Regardless of how SHTF starts and plays out, I do expect it will be Mad Max. Storable food, water, water purification items, medical supplies, camping equipment, guns, ammo, plenty of extra durable clothing, underwear, socks, footwear, etc. are the things where my money goes and still goes, things I know will help me survive. I’ve even been stocking up on certain items that will be in high demand when the barter economy gets started. I still believe it’s all going to happen this year. It’s going to be a long, hot summer. NOMI CATIMF Braveheart

        • The fucking feds want to be our masters,
          Most federal employees think the world revolves around what they are doing and that you and i and everyone else owes them a debt of gratitude for wasting OUR money we pay in tithe,
          Im on the list too im sure and could care less, what the hell am i gonna do? Too busy struggling along just trying to pay the freakin bills. ( dont want sympaty)
          It just blows my mind the arrogance of government in general.
          Our county council, voted themselves a raise and vetoed the mayors veto of an increase in the property tax and a change to the tax code.
          How the hell do you like that for a bunch of assholes.

        • Braveheart, you know alot of folks mention or quote what Goebels said about propaganda makes it easy to convince people etc. But what Most folks are Not aware of, as I too never knew untill a short time ago, I found a website that mainly had famous quotes by tons of famous folks from many eras.

          Well they had that exact goebles quote everybody mentions always. Guess what. What we all Thought was his exact Entire quote is NOT his Entire quote!

          The actual quote in its entirety is way Longer, like Two more paragraphs longer! What he was Really telling the German people with That Full exact quote was that it was the BOLSHEVIK Kommie Jews in Russia from 20 yrs Prior to nazi era(1918 russia) where They the Bolsheviks used such propaganda techniques.

          If you Read the Full entire quote Geobles says that. He was WARNING the german people how to recognize the Lies and Propaganda and 1/2 truths because Germany was Fast filing up with a massive huge invasion of russian jew kommi bolsheviks, to Join with those already there in control of MSM(newspapers and radio only then) and the Stage/Plays and Art/Music which kommies were influencing, same as Today in usa is being done by Same.

          It may be difficult to consider it, but those german leaders and nazi party LOVED their Own german folks and were fighting Communisim mainly. Same as We here are Today! I know that goes against all we were taught of germany and WWII. But if you actually Read about it from NON Fed Gov or MSM sources, you will see the reality of these facts.

          I am NOT saying the germans or nazis never did bad stuff. Everybody on ALL sides in War do bad stuff, thats reason it is called War. I am just saying same as Today how we are all being Lied to on Most all we are told, well basically the Exact Same persons and groups who control Our Todays fed gov and msms were the same back Then too in america and europe, including germany too.

          Thats why the nazis took total control of all radio and newspapers AWAY from the kommie jewish folks that controled it All prior to their comming into power.

          Wouldn’t We Patriots also do that? Would We take total msm control away from current msm swindlers of todays msm?

          Yes we sure would if we could! And the First thing We’d begin to broadcast to the avg public citizen americans is that most all they heard the last 50+ yrs was BS and LIES!

          Because That Is the truth right. Well so was it true back then in germany. Hitler entered Russia to RID europe of Communists! Not as we were told so he can take over the entire world!…Even a recent book by a Princeton Univ Prof whos a Jew himself says that was reason hitler went into Russia!

          His book is something like “Why didn’t the Heavens go Darkened then” or a title close to that. Yep many folks just reject what I posted here this post. But how can Anybody still believe we were told truth as kids when todays MSM and fed gov Liars are the Same people?

          Usually when Liars Lie, they Lie alot. Even about most everything said they Lie. We, americans, were Lied to Big time, and never so often or so much as about WWII era and germany or germans. I will try to Find the full quote by Geobles but wont promice it as I cannot recall now which website has it. If I find it I will post in full. Perhaps Others here have or can find it?

      32. I’m of the Yogi Berra mindset. “Predictions are hard to make…especially about the future.” I generally agree with this scenario. We are in a deepening worldwide depression right now. Some comparisons can be made to the worldwide depression of the 30s. However, there is one major difference. That being no more Jed Clampett “bubbling crude”. The majority of the remaining hydrocarbons are expensive to extract/refine. Without cheap oil the world economy will continue to slide. How far down it goes…who knows. It may be a slow bumpy ride or, if supply chains start breaking, a collapse. Eventually, I think it ends up at the same place. If it is a slow downturn, I will probably be dead before it hits bottom. What TnAndy said about the Fed debasing the currency is what will eventually price most of us out of the market for food and fuel. If you can’t grow it, make it or defend it, you may wind up in Bartertown tending the hogs.

        • @ JRS. Depression lead to war. Control of the energy and fuel deposits help win wars, and also help start them.

          @ Everybody. Even before reading this article there is that urgency in the air, time is running out sensation, to go out and pick up some more supplies. To really look through the specials in the store and other brochures and take advantage of these sales before it is too late to do so. I was looking at the Safeway flyer and this Friday only the rich and hearty Progreso soup is only 5 for $5. I have not seen this type of soup this low in a long time. I have many coupons that further reduce the price. Granted Progresso soup has some offshoots of MSG in it, but it is something that you can eat when this happens, and it is a fine barter item.

          Mac, this is something that would be an excellent part of the site that might be set up, where people could tell everyone about super deals and specials on survival supplies at nationwide stores. If not people could just mention what they see toe help other save and stock up. Many times people miss out of this deals that save lots of money because they don’t know about it.

        • “Who runs Bartertown”? – Master

      33. We can all talk that SHTF is down the road aways. But we also know things are moving very fast. Look at Libya, Egypt, and Syria today versus say just 5 years ago. Watch out Iran?

        Also the ‘Eyes in the Sky’ is moving fast too. You can order one photo from Rapid Eye that represents a 40 by 40 mile area, representing 1 million acres down to sub 5 meter accuracy. With several satellite services, you can easily map and photo the entire USA every 2 weeks.

        That means ‘bugging’ in may be easier than ‘bugging’ out. But a person may need to bug out for survival. If your single, then ok. If taking family, then good luck.

        As we have said many times before in that I hope we are just paranoid and can laugh about it later. But since 2001, nothing is make sense. All economic and social variables appear to be leading to a world-wide collapse followed by some sort of take-over by a new Govt.

        Please show me some info that tells me I am 100% wrong.

      34. Waiting on the house of cards to fall

        Standing by in the heartland,


      35. It seems like I was just saying this the other day to someone or other.

      36. MAD MAX End of Days Armageddon Scenario

        basic wish list

        1.) Antibiotics

        2.) 12 Gauge Shorty and Buck-n-Ball Ammo .

        3.) Water Filter straw

        4.) Shovel Saw Axe rambo knife sharpen stone

        5.) Compound Bow / 36 Arrows

        6.) Good Pair of Walking boots x 2 – spare pair socks x 3

        7.) Poncho x 2 / Mylar sheet x 4

        8.) Fish Line / piano wire 50 feet / hooks x 10

        9.) Fire Starter

        10.) Compass

        11.) Steel camp pot

        12.) bike / spare tubes patch kits tire gel no flat tires oil

        13.) bike tow trailer

        14.) kinetic recharge flashlight x 2

        15.) black camo golf umbrella

        And a Good Pack .


      37. I would love to be able to laugh about this later in life.
        It’s hard I go about your daily life and know how screwed up everything is…..and the sheep don’t even bat an eye.

        Everything points to bad. Lying unemployment numbers. Lying stock market numbers, lying politicians(what else is new)….record welfare assistance. When the hammer drops on us Constiutional loving, Jesus loving Patriots….look out folks. And remember a third sat out the last revolution. History repeats its self.

        Locked, cocked, an ready to rock.

        As always, standing by in the heartland,


        • Not too hard to figure out that .gov is in panic mode, when they have to lie in every figure they put out, promise they’re not tyrants (ever hear a tyrant admit they’re evil?), constantly harp that anybody who disagrees with them is evil( and that .gov is the sole arbitor of who’s evil), and by the way, demands you give up any means of resisting them.

      38. I suspect there will be one form of paper that will be worth a great deal in barter situations…toilet paper.
        Can openers should be quite valuable as well.

      39. Many dont realize the USA middle class was a one time anomaly. After WWII the USA had the factories workers & raw materials to produce everything. Europe was bombed out. So if someone needed something they came to the USA. We for a few decads almost had a monopoly on producing. That ended with the fake gas shortage in the 70,s. Since tht time the USA has slowly & steadily declined. Food stamps and EBT have replaced the soup lines of the great depression making the real sitation invisible. Now with the clatyclismic earth changes and the economic collapse its a slowly changing situation. like the proverbal frog in the pan of water We are being cooked and dont even realize it. gold by itself wont save anyone. prepping to the hilt wont save anyone. having know how and being meaner healthier craftier and fair amount of luck will determine whose genetics will pass on or be erased from the gene pool. It will eventually be reduced to the survival of the fittest. hoarding goods ,saving seeds and planting crops ect will most likely make you a targret for some mean person.. Better to learn to forage for &be able to survive on things that grow naturally without any help from man.

        • foraging only goes so far … learn self teach to farm in the hidden valleys forest , fish trap farm and raise livestock .

          fortify your home or bugout location …
          be prepared to kill or lose your hard earned foods and stores to t’eeves and cut throats .

          roast dog tastes just like roast cat .


          • Cats don’t look tasty, but then, I’ve never been that hungry. Would be hard-pressed to eat a Canine, they are awesome animals.

      40. Whoo! You’re screwed if you dont have all your defense preps…food water ammo…but you need PMs to play offense buy shit and elevate yourself out of servitude….dont worry bitches, you can mow my lawn…lol

        • What?

          Are you suggesting that we’d all mow your lawn in exchange for gold during the apocalypse?

          Maybe I misunderstood you.

          • Whoo! Pay you in PMs…no! I will have converted those into income streams and means to buy stuff. I will no longer be required to do menial labor and since most here are agreeing with the BS in the article…I just want to post this job opportunity way in advance because there are a lot on here that will need a gig. They all got food, but no means of getting more. Backyard or Front?

            • Praytell, what will these income streams look like?

              Will you pay us in chickens to mow the lawn… chickens bought with gold?

              I was foolishly thinking that my gig during the apocalypse would be farming and shooting anything that tried to eat my farm.

              Mowing lawns, for gold or chickens, didn’t enter into my thinking.

              Maybe you could make it worth my while though. I don’t mean to underestimate you.

      41. Oh boy.

        • lolo

      42. Ok, so one can’t eat gold. I’m not giving mine up. It will sit in the safe if it has to, until I can exchange it. There’s a reason people are scrambling like mad for it right now.

        • you will be among the ones who rebuilds our system. Generational wealth for your family.

          • Why would anyone want to rebuild our system?

            • I got dibs on this lawn mowing provocateur.

              • One thing’s certain; you’ll have the tidiest lawn in the apocalypse, come hell or high water.

                • I’d rather have my lawn mown by sheep rather than sheeple, come the apocalypse. You don’t have to feel as bad about eating them.

                  I KID, I KID!

                  • Did you ever eat Mutton, it’s awful! I’d rather eat sheeple

      43. Im sure I have said this numerous times, but one of the best investments one can buy is fruit and nut trees, bushes such as blueberries, grape vines, blackberries or rassberries, strawberries, etc. For $30 dollars you can buy a silver ounce coin or a fruit tree or plant. Maybe several depending on what kind you buy. They will produce for years and years but they also may take a few years to get establish so start now. Plant them at your house and your get-away location. If possible, talk your neighbors into planting some. More food the merrier. Now is the time to put these things in the ground.

        • Agreed!

          I’m with you, Eastie. Think permaculture… tea and coffee as well.

          I’d thumbs up you twice, but that would be cheating.

      44. Great read,
        I figure if your plan B is to
        Bug out then years worth
        of food and lots of gold is
        Out. In Mad Max you couldn’t buy a gallon
        Of water with a bar of gold, a box of cylinders
        Made of a brass, lead
        Mixture has much more
        buying power.

        Hmm how do I shut auto cap off On this stupid


        HA FUCKING HA.

        • You’ll get indigestion thinking like that.

        • Probably get the runs from eating that crap…

      46. I just pray we have a currency collapse several years before a ‘Mad Max’ scenario comes to Amerika. Thus, those that have PMs can use it to prepare for the Mad Max scenario. I live in So Cal and, due to my and wife’s job, we cannot leave to a rural area yet.

        I pray that there will be a time when the PMs spike up so we can bail out of So Cal and go get land to live on. All of us preppers, truthers, and true Patriots deserve this break.

        Screw the New World Order.

        • Geoegineering

          Chemtrails are so much, oh man, you know, kinda like, whatever, YESTERDAY.

      47. The collapse will only last a year or two. After that, the one-world government will gain control of the whole world. There won’t be any place to hide.

      48. PM’s will have 2 value phases from what I see-

        1. After economic collapse when paper is used for wiping only your posterior end…

        2. When society has started to reform (could be quite a while) and people finally have the basic needs covered- Water, food, shelter, defenses.

        Other than those 2 times, I really don’t see a viable timeframe in between for heavy use.

        One thing I *will* say about Silver however; it is just as good a conductor (if not better) of electricity than gold AND it has Anti-microbial qualities that gold does not! You can make silver burn cream, colloidal silver solution, and even drop some into your water supply to kill bacteria. Not sure about Virii, but hundreds of bacteria strains can be killed by it.

        • Add, right as it starts to get bad. You can buy one or two tanks of gas with PM”S when paper starts going bad. Depending on where you are, that maybe the most valuable gas you ever got.

      49. XXXX

        “…The duration is rather consistent – 600 years.”

        Think about that…25 years – classically, a ‘generation of Man’ – 24 generations. Neither anyone here, nor myself, will , even if Long-lived, we die having seen so much as the merest entry into any such a time.

        I implore you, Think…by all neccessary means SET aside ALL that is durable and useful; the generations to come will require all such. Does anyone here think that what will soon come will not be as decribed in this article? Think again. Those who effort themselves to hoard away Gold but who do not attend the OTHER apspects will perish.

        There is a massive amount of of refined materials of varying usefulness strewn about the suface of our planet by the actions of Humanity, Yes…but what about the ENERGY with which to make all such useful? Humanity has in a short 200 years fully disposed of every virtually ALL easily accessed resources of that sort available… all that remains are those resevoirs which are ‘technically challenging’ to obtain that from.

        The issue of Energy will be the downfall AFTER the fact…it takes energy to ‘Rebulid’, lots of it. There will be little or none available within a very short time. For all that the ‘green-lovers’ out there claim that the World today could be all bit run from such, it i not so. Electrical enerfy CANNOT be eggeciaently stored in ANY form for later use…hence Solar, Wind…the entire panopoly of all things ‘green’ are in effect nearly useless for those engaged in an effort to reconctruct ‘What was…”

        For what it’s worth, another of the prognostications from the venerable Hopi Indians – among others of the tribes of North America – is that in the End, “Only those who hide themselves in the ‘deep wilds’ will survive…far from all others.” BI has alluded frequently to the notion – as have I as well – that any process that significantly disrupts Human culture here on Earth, today WILL have as it’s direct consequence the development of pathogens (certainly by natural process, but possibly by artificial mean as well) which, in effect, will act on all remaining Humanity in a fashion that could scarce be descibed as anything other than “Biblical” in magnitude.

        Think, PLAN…Leave, when you can, for the deepest regions wherein you can get yourselves to…and Pray. There is no realistic expectation now that this will End other than badly…Everyone from Ron Paul to Noruiel Roubini, to Gartman, to Fisher (a Fed Gorvernor), et al, ad nauseum, sees any other outcome. Do you?

        For those of you here who have no belief in anything ‘More than you see” I am sorry for your plight…Life must be very difficulat indeed for you, daily…without Hope, living in perpetual fear of tomorrow. I pray for all such…


        • How much longer must we suffer these brainwashed fools?

          • Excellent comment Just One Guy:

            most people think they understand that whole divide and conquer idea, when in fact, they fall for it everyday; i.e. every time they make reference to race, religion, political affiliation, etc etc etc. Stupid idiots if you ask me, and they deserve to fall to the deepest portion of the ‘river of creation’ for all their needy ignorance and self gratifying righteousness.

            My truth is: one is either an ‘upright human being’…or not. The difference being based on ‘action’, and not circumstances of birth. So what qualifies a person as being an Upright Human Being? – do they steal from their community and hoard its resources. Do they destroy clean air and water and justify that action by claiming “i need a job” (like those losers at BP, or miners in Louisiana or foresters in the Amazon and Oil workers in Alberta, etc.). Do they violate the tenants of ‘community living’ by lying, coveting, stealing, etc. Do they repeatedly violate their own spiritual precepts by worshiping idols like gold, entertainers…or, themselves on any given Sunday.

            Soon, ALL will have to discern what is truly of value in this world, and many will come to the hard truth the hard way, that the only things of real value on this earth are clean air and water. Shiny metal things are for children, and adult children who are now “ghosts in the ‘machine'” and believe ‘the great lie’ fed to them by the priests and politicians, and so many other ‘authority figures’.

            Some want a history lesson? here is one that is seven generations old….

            The ojibway elders say: “at this time, Spider Woman is weaving a new web, as she often does (Sun’s heliosphere is changing?), and many will fall to the deepest portion of the ‘river of creation’ which moves so quickly now (the nature of space and time is changing, well…at least according to NASA it is)….let them fall away or they will drag you down with them, from the weight of all their lies and misguided truth. Have no sorrow, but instead find joy with those who traverse the great changes with you…”

            “…learn then, how to build a proper lodge (a sweat lodge, AKA a survival lodge) which is built with at least four trees remaining rooted in the ground. Build it near water which comes from under the ground. Move away from coast lines of large bodies of water and tend your food store diligently”….”tell this to those within your circle of influence who you love and care for, while you care for your own body, mind and spirit, and you will survive ‘the world turning over’…”

            Jeez, i hope that doesn’t cause people fear (sorry)…unsure why i was compelled to type all that because I simply wanted to say …good comment Mike.

            In any case…please, be well

            Happy Bird

            • Howdy Mr Bellows,

              Your response fascinated me from the moment I saw it. As I do not recognize your ‘monicker’ I will presume that you are – at a minimum – an infrequent poster, or perhaps even New here? In either case, “Well-Met and Welcome!”

              I am one whose entire existence has lain along the path of Science, yet now, I am becoming conscious of ‘other’ things as well…this is NOT to say that I have lost ANY faith in that endeavor, simply that – in the greater scheme of things – there is that, “Which we do not know’…Mystery’s.

              Humankind has LONG strayed off the path of “True Human Beings”, such is abyssmally plain. I fear for all who now live…soon, many of those may not. I wonder how fast this iteration of ethical decline has proceeded, reltative to say, the “last world”. Per my limited understanding, things went VERY rapidly there, too much so. One wonders at times if we – as a species – merit any further chances at all…

              The Native American lore relating to Tai-o-wa and “Spider Woman’ IS fascinating…such an ‘odd’ choice as to a Creator-figure! We have seen many of the things told by the Elders come to pass….though I think that the last has not YET transpired, ‘a dwelling place (of Men) in the heavens, which will fall to the Earth with a great crash”, presumed by some to be the de-orbiting of Sky-Lab some time ago: I am NOT sure that is the case though, I DO keep a ‘weather eye’ on the ISS routinely now…

              Your obsevation may be closer than you know…Last spring, April 22th I believe, the Japanese space agency – JAXA – released the results of some rather detailed observations that had been made with thier satellite, HINODE, which by design is engineered to observe the Solar X-ray spectrum. A suprise lay therein for all and everyone. To wit: Our Sun, which in any ordinary circumstance is an electrical ‘dipole’ had been conclusively seen to have changed from that to another, never before seen configuration, that of an electrical ‘Quadrupole”. SpeciFicaLLY, the charge distribution North-South have BOTH become positive, while the equatorial region had become negatively charged. This has never been observed before…this was NOT even suspected. The nearest that “Science” can surmize at this point, is that this MIGHT signal the onset of another protracted “Solar Minima” such as has happened at odd intervals in the last few thousand years. The last of these to have occured was in the period from 1645-1715, wherein some of the coldest temperatures Humankind has seen for some time were present: Nearly EVERY glacier on the planet was seen to advance powerfully through that period; that time is refered to as the “Maunder Minimum”.

              The most recent guidance given is that in the time to come we must ‘push-off’ from the banks, not cling to what is, but flow with the current…wherever it takes us. We are also told that if we do not do so that the currents will overwhelm us, thayt we will drown in what is coming. How many today feel just like this; like they are being bufffeted by terrible winds or currents? Many I think. Already, very many are seen walking in the World, souless…if you look in thier eyes you can no longer see Men and Women…but instead other, nameless things.

              Lately I think often in my Soul of the prayer “To the Four Directions” which is attributed to Chief Seneca, some of which are, “Comfort me and caress me when I am tired and cold. Unfold me like the gentle breezes that unfold the leaves on the trees.” Soon, confort may be scarce…I would be pleased to dialogue with you further, were you so inclined…


      50. Look folk you need to get on your knees and pray we never get to a Mad Max scenario. With out commercial food production the almost 7.1 billion people on this planet will strip the surface of the earth bare in a matter of weeks. All the grains, livestock and game will be shot out faster then most think. Remember it could take up to a few months before the masses starve to death.

        Even the third world and indigenous people’s will get wiped out as the masses literally eat their way over the landscape like locust. You really have to be prepared to stay out of the way for a minimum of 3 to 6 months. Then your going to need the seed, skills and tools to go into the production of food, water, shelter and security.

        Realistically if the world gets to that point I’m not sure i would want to survive. When people are starving and dehydrated they get really crazy quick, than their strength leaves them and they lay down and die.

        What’s stunning is the fact that normal hard working people like us are having this conversation. In 2006 I would have ran like hell from anyone who was talking like this. How times have changed!!!

        • I totally agree with the 3-6 months picture. Stay the hell out of the way during this time frame. Come out when the coast is clear. Maybe help bury the dead. But trying to hang with the crowds during this period would be suicide.

          • Thanks GTL & A

            Sometimes I think there are people on this site that dont fully comprehend the ramifications of such scenarios as Mad Max, Global Financial Collapse, Pandemics and War. There is no escape, you either live through it or die in it. You can’t simply flip a switch ang go back to normal.

            I can tell you that many preppers will not survive and many that are completely unprepared will adapt and overcome. Just study your history, because history only lies after a rewrite.

        • Howdy P1,

          Yes, absolutely, “All the grains, livestock and game will be shot out faster then most think. Remember it could take up to a few months before the masses starve to death.”

          My grandparents had originally lived in the deep south and after the Depression came, they related that the wild game was GONE in less than two months…and that was at a time when the whole of the population of America was LESS than 100 Million, NOT the 300+ that it is today.

          It recently occaisioned that I stopped over at Wikipedia and there looked up the “US Census” figures as far back as they went, and all estimates which existed before that point all the way back to the Founders times. What I realized there, looking those over, was that IF all things were now reduced to a pre- technological state, that FAR from it being the case that we could support as many as HAD existed in those days, that in truth, we could only do so for FAR less…Why?

          In those days they LIVED thier skill sets DAILY, honed and refined, between each and every sunrise and sunset…EACH and EVERY one of them. None such now exists. The truly horrifying part was that prior to the mid 1850’s the whole of the population was limited to less than 20 million people, on average. How many could support themselves like THAT today…perhaps less than a tenth of those who had done so in that age.



          • I also read that deer became extinct in 19 states after the great depression. It took nearly 30 years for deer to repopulate those states. So I wouldn’t count soley on hunting to survive.

            • Actually deer were already gone before 1900 in many states in the East. Living on game only works when the predator population is small and inefficient. Increases in population after the Civil War, the introduction of quick-reloading cartridge firearms, and the railroads, did the deed. (You might ask why railroads – they enabled rural folks to sell game meat to the cities in much greater quantities than before.)

          • I sincerely believe the part about wild game being gone in under 2 months. There is some game in my area and people nearby say, “we’ll just live off the game if it gets that bad”. In my opinion, that will be a short-lived strategy. Even though we live in the sticks, there is not enough game to support everyone for long and most of these people will waste a lot anyway.

            • Absolutely true. In my area there are enough deer that the bag limit is six, but if the deer population has to replace the meat counter at the local market, it’ll last just a few weeks. Deer hunters here a very competent.

            • Unless people are going to use snares or crossbows, the deer will become invisible after the first few hours of folks out there shooting at them. As for the turkeys, they will find a low roost and also become hard to find, although not as impossible as the deer.

              I can see various small streams becoming fished out quickly, too. I seriously doubt there will be newbie ice fishers, either. It can get uncomfortable. Yahoos will be out in force shooting .22s into the trees to get squirrels. Those .22s can travel a long ways. I’ve got a couple of holes in my house to prove it from folks shooting up from an area below us.

              I wonder how many domestic pigs will get loose? My area doesn’t have a huge feral hog problem, but I understand it only takes one generation for that to happen.

              I’m becoming interested in snares and traps, myself. I’ve eaten beaver and raccoon and they can be made tasty, besides being very dense meat, where a little goes a long way. Learning to tan hides could be a decent hobby, too, especially in those long winter days and nights cooped up inside. Lots of muskrat around here, too. Don’t know as I’d want to eat one unless I had to, but the winter skins are nice. Areas with coyote and wolf populations, not to mention the thought of feral dog packs might consider snares as a protective measure.

              However, a lot of folks will starve rather than eat dark meat game. And a rabbit-only diet has nutritional downsides.

              I am purposely not even thinking about hunting bear unless you have large enough caliber firearms and, preferably, an experienced hunting party available. Mean animals, hard to kill and the meat is an acquired taste. Nice warm, but heavy, hide and loads of grease from just one of those guys, though. I’ll also bet the buffalo ranchers will be wiped out quickly.

              Personally, I doubt it will get to that point, but for those into an outdoor lifestyle, it will be survivable if it did. If I were to speculate, I’d think we’d see a trade in game and fish for storage items or specialty skills. Without a vigorous secondary market, PMs will have limited current trade value, IMO.

              • Snares box traps ect are working 24X7. they are very effective. However its very easy to hunt all of the game out of an area. In the fifties & early sixties we where very poor. my family hunted & fished for a considerable part of our food. We decimated the wildlife from several square miles. I never killed a deer until the 70,s. never seen a wild turkey,coyote or beaver until the late sixties. back then squirrl rabbit & quail where plentiful. Now quail & rabbitt are scarce. Now deer & turkey are plentiful.

                • Great comments from all. I would like some feed back on an idea I have for breeding.

                  My assumption is I can get some what isolated somewhere during the first 24 to 48 hours of the collapse. I will not have the man power or resources to commercially breed. Now I’m only thinking local species of fowl, squirrels, rabbits, possums, deer, goats, sheep, ect. My concept is just to trap, breed and release.

                  The desired result would be localized over population of wild game and fowl, not farming or ranching. Did I mention I have absolutely no experience at breeding? What say you???

                  • I had similar thoughts since I do not live at my retreat full-time and we are only allowed to have a few chickens here in town. I think it is important to have a definite place to go even if it’s a rented storage unit with a loft bed. I expect the infrastructure related to animal husbandry will be more rare (and expensive) than the actual animals after an event so may as well go ahead and build a chicken coop from pallets that will slide into the storage unit and fill it with hardware cloth, welded wire, and other necessary supplies for this and your rabbitry.

                    Now the bad news. wild rabbits, for example will most often kill themselves if we attempt captive breeding. Click on my user name for a thread on the subject. You may be able to work out some kind of captive free range, but I do not think this is the time to experiment. I suggest a better alternative is to build relationships with people in your designated bug out area where you can get breeding stock if you cannot keep a breeding pair at your home and get experience now. A great place to start is country churches. Drive by on a Sunday morning and look for the pickup trucks in the parking lot. I did that just last weekend and made a lot of new local farmer friends.

      51. Preppers and Americans:

        America is made of:


        It is a melting pot for freedom. Freedom to pursuit of happiness and work. To be free and innovate.

        That is being taking away by non-American attitudes. The melting pot is going away and soon gone. The collapse of economy and divisions of so-called races is being planned. Pitting one man against another.

        Lets don’t play the game.

        • The “melting pot” is a BULLSHIT lie to get the more productive in society to feel okay for having their efforts squandered on the less sophisticated. America was great when the culture was divided into each looking after their own, holding them ACCOUNTABLE. Everyone has equal opportunities here…and yet certain groups still screw it up.

      52. I don’t have the “problem” of owning enough gold for this to be an issue, but if I’d bought all the tangible goods that I and my loved ones could hide or manage at some point, I’d bury the gold in a secure, undisclosed location until after society hits the reset button. In the meantime, I’m stocking up on certain goods that I intend to use for barter and/or bribery–booze and vacuum-sealed cans of coffee are among my top items that I’m stockpiling in large quantities at the moment. I’m open to suggestions.

        • Coffee and booze will be in high demand. I would also suggest stocking dollar store meds, soaps, perfumes, gloves, scarves, hats, socks, etc. If yaupons grow in your area, I’d plant some. They are the most caffeinated plant in North America and can be a continual source through tea and coffee.

      53. When a person believes in nothing, it has been said, that person will be willing to believe in anything. Likewise, I think, when you remove the rule of law, you can make any law you want. It’s clear that Obama has succeeded in destroying our concept of contract law which is clearly stated in the Constitution. In so doing, and by his intention of appointing judges with “empathy”, he is clearly destroying the rule of law in this country, and in doing so, undermines the foundation for our wealth and security. If he succeeds – and I find it hard to believe that there won’t be court challenges – then it will never again be “what the law says” with equal justice under the law for all, it will be who you are and who you know that counts. Just like in any third world banana republic. Obama is to be congratulated. He has succeeded in bringing America to its knees – a job that Hitler, Japan and the USSR failed to do.

        Keep the FAITH

      54. It is interesting to read the latest US Army COIN manual from the point of view of insurgents. 1. Look harmless. Blend in. watch for ever-smaller eye-in-the-sky. Know that all radio traffic is instantly located, translated, and jammed/spoofed by the NSA/CIA/Army anti-prop units. Land-lines and field phones may not be safe/secure. 2. Never, never, never give the big army a chance to engage in a fair fight. They will destroy the little army while declaring them to be criminals. 3. IED’s and EFP’s are THE force-multiplier to keep the big army buttoned up in their forts and armored vehicles. Improvised does not mean crude. Improvised probably means “placed by hand”. 4. Insurgency is a fight about economics and control, not about who can win a battle. Making the occupation very expensive while repeatedly “tactically advancing/dispersing to a safer rear” is a win for the natives. Shortly (in a couple years), there will be a withdrawal of foreign troops or replacement with lower-quality different foreign troops (US troops being replaced with under-trained under-equipped central African troops). 5. Find a way to keep the local population on the side of local fighters. Keep local people housed, fed, treated somehow, and make sure that they know it’s the (freedom fighters) not the foreigners doing it. This is one of Hamas successful strategies that have made them partly social-services and political agency rather than just a military organization. Without local support, it’s over and everyone will be slaves to foreign corporations and banks. Some of this stuff works and has no good countermeasure for the big army, short of total population extermination, and that has its’ own set of problems.

        Keep the FAITH

      55. I have glasses so I can see. I will take them off so I can see no more. See no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil. Head in Sand and blind–life is good.

        That deaf, dumb, and blind kid sure plays a mean game of pinball–the Who.

        • Whoo! Pray to God we “don’t get fooled again”.

      56. Whoo! Going to present the elephant in the room…if you have guns and ammo…why barter? Just pillage and plunder…after all it is Mad Max land.

        • You realize that you’re completely undermining your argument that we’ll all be mowing your lawn for gold and chickens.

          We all have guns and ammo, brother.

          • Whoo! My point as ridiculous as it may be, is simply this…If you subscribe solely to this logic, you are in trouble and will never see the other side of whatever brings on the Mad Max event…you have to build wealth now for opportunities later. Food, ammo, etc…doesn’t transact well leading up to the collapse… This is where the metals are played…it gains you more tools and spit to trade later. Mowing my lawn tonight…sure wish I had some sheep(le) to do it for me.

            • The baa-ing of the sheeple grazing on your lawn would interrupt your peaceful sleep.


      57. @ JustOneGuy. You know what I feel that the masses of the United States and most first world countries feel, that they are invulnerable to anything that would collapse their security and their little worlds. They gather around in groups still talking about the absolute hoorors of two loser muslims detonating a couple of large pipe bombs in Boston. They get into these “crying” groups, most of whom were not even close to what happened. They exaggerate a situation that is an ant hill next to the potential of a REAL BACKPACK bomb in the form of a nuke.

        I was looking at these so called backpack nukes a few months ago on a web site that I forgot to bookmark, that are basically like a couple of very large coffee cans that work much like the Little Boy plug type original nuke that first nailed Japan in 1945, but much smaller of course. You have a core that I believe makes up 58% of the mass, and the plug is the other 42%. High explosives forced the plug into the core. For what I remember is that it was 3-5 kilotons. Suitcase nukes from the old Soviet Union where from an 1/2 to about 4 kilotons. To say the least, this could take out 100,000 people in the densest parts of many major cities. On top of the fallout that could sicken hundreds of thousands. These things exist, as the USSR fully admitted to having hundreds of them.

        Sheep-People just don’t get it. They are drama queens that overdramatize everything, including the knee jerk reactions to any massacre with a firearm. The anti-gunners play on this like a fiddle. Again, they have no clue to the magnitude of what can be done to any country with the available weapons out there. I have long talked about the dangers of bio-weapons, as the masses have no idea what a couple hundred pounds of anthrax can do, or one highly contagious very fatal genetically altered virus can do from some state sponsored source. Nukes though are also another very dangerous real issue.

        I was watching the last scene in a Jericho TV episode in which the black guy was putting red thumb tacks on each city that had been nuked. I believe the storyline has 23 cities getting nuked. I was looking at a map and I said to myself that this country could be basically destroyed by just a few more than the 23 in the TV show. Just by about 1/2 to 1/3 of the arsenal of Pakistan. Hubs are junction points to other smaller cities and would be the targets of such an attack.

        On a map this would be many roads leading out from a city like spider legs. Also ports that bring in imports and ship out exports. This would be about 35-40 points in the U.S. That is frightening considering that a country this large could be taken down by what a country like North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, or other countries with nuclear reactors could produce or already have in the hands of 3 dozen agents or destruction or so.

        I think that this is one of the largest threats to the survival of a country like the U.S., that few are prepared for real true crap gets buried on top of us type event(s). While an event that is commonplace in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other hellhole country such as a bombing. When it happens over here so many act like it is near the end of the world. I blame much of this on the mass media for trying to get ratings as much as possible, but also on the masses for becoming out of touch with reality true wimps. Look at what has happened since 2000 alone. Imagine the fall down of people after a 8+ earthquake strikes the U.S. The majority of the people now walk around without a backbone to support them when a true catastrophe, natural or man-made, occurs.

      58. Hello everyone. I have been absent for some time. I will spare you the details but lets just say do not ignore your health. This article is spot on. The pm market has draw backs. I will list them.
        1) pm’s are taxed as collectables. This means a 28% rate rather than your effective tax rate that is normally lower. Even if you do a private sale and don’t report, the tax is a factor and priced in.
        2). There is normally a 15% front and back load. You pay when you buy and when you sell.
        3). The beta is out of sight. This is exaggerated when considering short time spans.
        4). Pm’s also generally follow equities over longer periods of time and funds normally have less than a 3% load.
        5). Katrina. Items addressing basic needs were the sought after ” investments”. Gas, food, clean water, etc.
        6). Risks associated with storage, counterfeit coins, and theft.
        7). Few secondary markets for physical Pm’s is limited at best.
        This is not to say you can’t make money. A buy and hold plan is not going to work as well as playing short term gains. They have to increase + 30 % to break even. You can make money watch your ass.

        • Thank you ROY. You are absolutely right on all counts.

      59. IMHO by the time the GDP (generally dumb public) switches from paper money to metals and tangibles for trade it will be too late for anyone who isn’t prepared already.

        By this time, store inventories will be gone and too expensive to replace, paper money will be unobtainable or worthless, transportation will grind to a halt for lack of fuel or the price of fuel….and the government will have implemented it’s control measures to the fullest extent of their plans….

        have paper money on-hand so when the ATM’s are rendered inoperative by TPTB and banks are limiting the amount customers can withdraw each day….you and yours will be buying whatever you don’t already have with cash.

        Metals will really only become significant once the smoke clears and the dust settles.

      60. Not happening. We’ll never revert to a hunter gathering existence. Technological progress will continue.

      61. I’ve been reading Martin Armstrong’s blog and it’s LOADED with great advice. He posts a few times a day.


        Mad max scenario will not go on forever!

        • If we’ll need gold when the dust settles, then what’s the point in having an apocalypse in the first place? I’m beginning to sour on the whole notion of it.

          Why go through all that just to end up back where you started?

          I’m trying to think outside of the box here, not just shake up the old box until I end up with more gold than the guy next to me.

          • Couldn’t agree more.

      63. Agreed!

        But you’ll also need:

        Cooperation with each other.

        And Mental Balance- always keep calm and think things out.

      64. Factual article, except for one item: the statement that it is improbable that the debt “our country” has taken on will be paid back. The author ignores the fact that this “debt” is completely illegitimate, and SHOULD NOT be “paid back”. The money system in the US is a total fraud: money is created out of thin air on computers, loaned to governments through the central bank, AT INTEREST! The debt is riddled with fraud and should be cancelled…NOT paid back.

      65. Food. Lots of food

      66. In a Mad Max situation, metals won’t be a problem. Think of all those dead vehicles. Hack a piece off in any way you can, find a bit of sandstone and give it an edge. That’s your first knife. We can move on from there.

        As for books, anything on Permaculture, also Harold Covington’s “The Brigade”. It’s fiction, but it’s fiction with a purpose. It doesn’t matter whether or not you like the author (I’ve personally got a lot of respect for the man). What matters is that he has GIVEN (literally – if you can’t afford to buy, e-mail him and he’ll send you a FREE pdf) a lot of potentially valuable information, tactics, materials, as just one example, how to get saltpetre (for gunpowder/black powder). Just read the book and you’ll see what I mean. It’s aimed more at warriors than preppers, but the differences will become academic when the stuff really does hit the fan.

        I wonder what long pork tastes like (a joke, or perhaps not).

        DON’T fall for the LIE that we’re “all the same under the skin”. Different races and cultures are NOT compatible. Nothing against other races, but a mixed race group is doomed. Small differences quickly become magnified. Diversity is our WEAKNESS, so let each race/culture/group make it’s own arrangements. That way more people will have a chance.

        Hemp for oil, fibre, plastics, and it’s non-polluting. Learn to live without electricity as much as possible.

        Btw, what the hell are PMs? Perhaps this site would benefit from a simple dictionary page (or have I missed it?). Otherwise an excellent site as far as I’ve seen so far (new visitor based in England).

        • Precious metals

      67. You people really are pathetic. You watch way too much TV. The Mad Max scenario will not happen, not even close. But, please, stay in your mom’s basement and live in your fantasy world so the rest of os can live a real life in the real world.

      68. this is true , read Selco’s blog about how it was in Bosnia , money and gold had no real value . food and drinkable water were number one , he says also it is important to keep large amounts of alcohol and marijuana on hand ……….this is always in demand as its an escape from the shitty day to day SHTF life . He pulls no punches as to why people used one or the other . Weapons and plenty of ammunition are very important in surviving .

      69. Doh!

      70. After having read many of the comments arguing the vagaries of religion and politics in the so called “Dark Ages” it is very clear that one thing is certain; Religion as a government needs to be avoided. While so many Christians want to return America to it’s so called “Christian” roots it is also very clear in my mind and historical evidence proves, that religion of any kind leading a nation always devolves into an oppressive freedom stifling tyranny. As a follower of the Christ, it pains me to say that even Christianity’s own record, both protestant and so called “Catholic” are as guilty as any other.

        It is my personal belief that limited government that allows all individuals all freedom and that only restricted by one’s intent to infringe on the freedom of another is the way to go. All law should be written with the advancement of individual freedom the primary consideration.

      71. Well the conversation seemed to evolve/devolve into one about religion with some of the commentators here. After having read many of the comments arguing the vagaries of religion and politics in the so called “Dark Ages” it is very clear that one thing is certain; Religion as a government even as part of government in policy,needs to be avoided. While so many Christians want to return America to it’s so called “Christian” roots it is also very clear in my mind and historical evidence proves, that religion of any kind of government leading a nation always devolves into an oppressive, freedom stifling tyranny. As a follower of the Christ it pains me to say that even Christianity’s own record, both protestant and so called “Catholic” are as guilty as any other.

        It is my personal belief that limited government that allows all individuals all freedom and that only restricted by one’s ability to infringe on the freedom of another is the way to go. All law should be written with the advancement of individual freedom the primary consideration. Once the notion of what’s good for the community comes into law, all is lost to some tyrannical group’s idea of what’s good for the community. We need to live by the credo “KISS”, “Keep it simple stupid”

        • Let there be no confusion about my faith and who I meant by “the Christ”. I follow Jesus the Christ. Not a church, not a man.

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