Desperation: Police Chief Turns to Town Citizens for Ammunition Amid Nationwide Shortages

by | May 10, 2013 | Headline News | 272 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The Department of Homeland Security may be in possession of nearly two billion rounds of ammunition, but despite claiming it’s being stockpiled for the safety of Americans, they’re not sharing.

    The shortages of popular ammunition rounds has made it difficult for average citizens to acquire most calibers of ammunition through regular retail channels, but the empty shelves don’t stop there.

    Police departments across the country are scarmbling to find ammunition for training and enforcement, and they’re being told that the delays for delivery are 6 – 8 months.

    This prompted Proctor, Minnesota police chief Walt Wobig to send out a call for help:

    The Chief says he was told he’d have to wait months, even a year to get more ammo.

    “I was really surprised, let’s just put it that way,” said Chief Walt Wobig of the difficulty getting ammunition.

    Woberg says that when he asked suppliers for the 1,000 rounds of ammo his officers needed for training, he was told he’d have to wait months.

    “I go, ‘Do you have 40–caliber qualification rounds?’ And they go, ‘Well, no. It’s going to take six to eight months [to get them],'” said Wobig of a conversation with a manufacturer.

    Retailers say the nationwide shortage is due in part to people stockpiling ammunition in response to recently proposed gun legislation.

    “It was getting a little short last fall, so they were already behind, but there definitely is panic,” said Superior Shooters Supply owner, Pat Kukull of the shortage, “We’ve [the store] been here for 35 years and I’ve never seen anything like it.”

    With the Proctor Police Department in need of ammunition, the Chief sent out a call asking for help. Who answered? The very people his officers are sworn to protect.

    “The citizens were like, ‘If you need something, we got plenty here,'” said Wobig.

    A citizen and a Proctor police officer loaned their personal ammunition to the Department, a total of 1,500 rounds. The Chief says others were willing to help too.

    “I had several other calls from other citizens that said, ‘Hey, if you need more ammunition we have plenty,'” said Woberg, “I know that if I need ammunition I have citizens out there that will gladly come forward.”

    Ammunition shortages are nothing new since gun control proponents have threatened the Second Amendment with multi-faceted legislation on state and federal levels that aims to reduce gun ownership, restrict the exchange of gun accessories, and even targets ammunition as an explosive device that needs to be regulated.

    While the media claims that the shortage is due in part to individuals stockpiling larger quantities, it completely fails to mention the stockpiling of multiple billions of rounds by the government itself.

    Were these DHS stockpiles being acquired for the protection of Americans and the homeland, wouldn’t it make sense that local police departments around the country should be able to turn to the agency instead of local citizens for help?

    Once again, the massive stockpiling by the federal government is suspect. Does the government expect some sort of widespread event that will require this ammunition be brought into service, perhaps like the economic collapse and civil unrest scenarios they’ve been war-gaming? Or, are they, as Senator Jim Inhofe recently suggested, hoarding ammunition  intentionally as a way to attack the Second Amendment by reducing availability on the free market?


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      1. I would be just a little concerns about letting TPTB know I have any ammo at all. Keep your mouth shut is Rule # 1.

        • Amen BJ. If I had any guns or ammo I wouldn’t say anything.


          • What? What are you talking about? What is this website? Who are you people? Ammo what ammo.

            • There is ammo available out there….they just have to pay more for it. Just like everyone else.

              I’m calling BS on this. If the police departments need the ammo, they can get it.

              • States and counties should sue the federal government for deliberate attacks on the 2nd Ammendment through ammunition which results in shortages for all state, county and city enforcement agencies and endangers citizens and enforcers. States need to step up and and tell the federal governement that they have gone way beyond their legal powers. It is the states who can do that and they should.

              • luckygunner dot com.
                expensive, but available.

                • And if anyone can afford the flipping prices it’s the taxpayers.

          • THIS PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt,THE AMERICAN PEOPLE are stupider then a box of rocks,the very criminals who are going to raid their homes and kill their families,and the morons give them the ammo to do it with………………….

        • BJ, you got that right. In the past I was always pro LE, but times have changed. Don’t this remind you of England during the second world war, the English people had no guns to defend themselves so the American gun owners,Sportsmen and Hunters came to their aid and sent them guns. And England was so grateful, that they sure wouldn’t let that happen again, so they past a 2nd Amendment so all their people could be armed to protect themselves from all enemys foreign and domestic. Now if you believe that fairytale, let me tell you another. When the Schumer Hits The Fan, all of those Police Forces that you provided with ammo,they will sure take your interest at heart. And they won’t try to take your guns, just as England ain’t tried to take guns from their people. Give me a break! Trekker Out. FREE MEN OWN GUNS,SLAVES DON’T!

          • The stupdity is overwhelming. NWO agents couldnt get the guns by force, so they disarm the citizens by wheedling. But they disarm them. Perhaps the NWO is correct. These are SLAVES at heart- thru and thru- and they need, in fact beg, consent, to be ruled and subjugated. Flabbergasting.



        • i would send them out to the lake where my canoe tipped over and tell them if the can find my guns and ammo they can have them

          • @Mark, That happened to you too?!?! That’s weird.

        • What ammo? The canoe and the lake tale.

        • Ammo? The canoe and the lake tale.

        • Never trust “law enforcement” they are not your friends they are there to arrest you not your buddy or friend or for that matter to protect. Now you know the cops know where and who has the ammo when they need to “borrow more” or maybe confiscate your ammo and weapons. Way to go dumdass people.
          I would never loan nor give ammo to two cops it will at sometime be used against you. Count on it.

          • The “private citizen” who gave the chief 1500 rounds of ammo was a police officer too. It was probably some suck-up detective who took the opportunity to score brownie points with The Chief so he’d look good come promotion time! Not to mention that he probably made a deal with the Chief to “loan” 1500 rounds to the dept in exchange for 2000 back when their reorder supply comes in!

          • Kind of like us arming terrorists in Syria and Libya?

        • While I agree with you by, ill add that these people ate stuid fir helping the largest gang in America. They might find their own bullets returned to them in a not so good way.

          • That’s because Remington has huge government contracts to fill. Boycott Remington, as if they need our business…

          • After Remington sold out THE AMERICAN GUN OWNERS, with their $811,000,000 deal with the federal government, I wouldn’t buy SHIT from that sell out company.

        • I have to call B.S. My brother two of my boys and myself just completed a 3 day combat pistol course at ShawShooting dot com each of us shooting 1500 rounds. The boys and my brother found it online and ordered it sent here. For two weeks the UPS guy was dropping 1000 round boxes on my doorstep. We shot 6000 rounds in three days and I just ordered some more. It was $30 for 50 rounds so what.

          • Actually I have bought all the 9mm I want for $69.99 for 250 rds UMC. Now I’m wondering if I should get more.

        • Ya, but aren’t you basically saying you have ammo just by saying that?

        • looks like Proctor, Minn is fucked

          • I doubt it, the whole story is a test in my opinion to see if people will give up their Ammo. A thousand rounds for a police force to use for duty and to train, BS that isn’t enough Ammo for a day for multiple people to train with. If the towns people came forward to give up their ammo, then they just volunteered themselves to confiscation. If people had extra ammo, then they are a PREPPER of some form, and PREPPERS aren’t stupid enough to fall for this.

          • ONE of the entre areas the russians will use to invade the USA is MINN. and the morons are giving the very people who are going to be helping the russians their ammo,the people in america need to listen to PUTIN,he warned OBAMA,to get out of syria OR FACE INVASION FROM THEIR MILITARY in the USA,go ahead morons,give your ammo to the POLICE GANGS,and when the russians showup,maybe you can suck good enough that they won’t kill you,OH and explain to your women how stupid you are when the russians come,AND THE DRONES, OBAMA PLANS to use against the american people,where were the police when he said that,so much for their OATH, HUH…..I’d like to hear ONE STORY,where the police gangs UPHOLDED THEIR OATH to protect the US CONSTITUTION,and arrested the criminals in government VIOLATING THEM…………..

        • Plenty of ammo available online auction sites.

        • Yup fuck em! Theyre TAKING way too much of our hard earned tax dollars while the democrats sit on their asses and get a check. There should be no reason why they would have to ask the law abiding citizens for ammo-airborne.

      2. The article does not mention that there has been a limit as to how much one civilain can buy per day since weeks after that Sandy shooting. The article also does not mention some states requiring a million dollar insurance for legally owned civilian firearms.

        • Just my opinion, but if I was an ammo manufacturer. I would tell the gov that I am out, done! I would then focus all my attention to the public first then the LEO’s. More mark up any way selling to you and me. My contract is done with the gov. Got that Janet!

          • Except that if you refuse the DHS order, I’d bet my last dime they’d sick BATFE on you so fast your head would spin and you’d be nailed with bogus charges, have no chance at a fair trial or to refute the mountains of fabricated evidence they would have against you and if you are really lucky you might simply be ruined and have your life destroyed instead of spending years being Bubba’s bitch in a federal prison.

            • I have a feeling that the only thing thats gonna be scarcer then ammo soon will be prison rooms! And being in prison is gonna really mess up a SHTF plan.

          • I recently read somewhere that the government has ‘dedicated’ ammo manufacturers that only manufacture for the military and are capable of producing 2 billion rounds per year. If that is so, there should be no shortage for civilians. Perhaps that purchase by the government is just the obvious one? Not the total? I’m sure a bit of research can turn up the supporting article.

            And, maybe the local police are just trying to take some ammo out of civilian hands? I find it difficult to believe that police departments would not have priority.

            • The problem is raw material. The bullet maker here in the NW just laid everyone off because he cannot get any thing to make bullets with.

              Also DHS is supplying bullets. FM of mine works security for a company that works for the gov. They were just given everything they asked for for training and qualified.

            • It was 12 +/- years ago when I was in one of those factories. At the time it was a Olin factory in Missouri. All it produced was mil-spec ammo up to 50 cal. If I remember correctly each machine could produce 10,000 rounds per hour. There were lots of machines. The place was fenced with guards.

              • Interesting information.. So… If ONE machine can make 10,000 rnds an hour. Figure 22hrs (guessing a couple hrs of maintenance a day)at 220,000 rnds a day PER machine. Working 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month comes out to 4,400,000 rnds a month off ONE machine. Lets just throw in that it may be working 11 months out of the year (actual work) would come out to 48,400,000 rnds. Big companys do not have just one, I’m just guessing and saying 20 per factory, would come out to 968,000,000 rnds a factory per year. Hmmm. Winchester, CCI, Remington, Federal, PMC (Korean) are big companys.

                Sounds like someone is lying about the ammo situation.

                • Your math looks correct but places like Walmart still have mostly empty shelves. Perhaps selling to highest bidder? Walmart and similar either buy rock bottom price or not at all. That applies to everything they sell. From clothing to ammo.Maybe if they paid market price they’d have stock. My relatively small local dealer pays the price quoted and seems to always have stock albeit – NOT cheap!

            • That would be Lake City Arsenal in Missouri. But that facility only makes 5.56×45, 7.62×51, and .50BMG.

              An interesting facet of all this turned up in a 3-4 year old government report I read last week. Of the dozen or so chemicals that go into making up primer compound, about half come from China ! Make of that what you will…..

              Meanwhile, the remaining raw materials for bullets and brass are lead, tin, antimony, copper, and zinc. Nothing exotic – no shortages there. What isn’t readily available is machine tools. Mfg. capacity in 2012 was adequate for the demand from the active shooters in 2012. Since then you have something like a million new gun owners, all demanding ammo for normal use plus ammo to put away. It’ll take a year just to build the additional factories necessary to meet the new level of demand. Been there, done that. (An auto engine plant takes three years, minimum.)

              • According to their website LC makes about 1.4 Billion rds a year for the Gov.

            • About two? months ago Janet N. announced future munitions purchases by FEMA/DHS etc. would not be made public. Thus, we don’t know what they’ve bought since then (and won’t know in the future). Also, I’ve read several times that Saudi Arabia ordered 6 billion rounds a few months ago with the money probably coming from “foreign aid” (read USA). What other countries (if any)? Plus what’s to stop Saudi Arabia from “storing” their purchase(s) in the USA for “safety”?

              They’ve “advanced” from stupid dumb to just dumb IMO.

          • I was told by the manager at my local Cabelas, that the Winchester/American Eagle rep had been in and let Cabelas know that Winchester/AE has told the government to pound sand, and they were now producing for the civillian market.

            • If this rumor is true, then I say it is about time!

              During the Indian Wars, anyone who got caught selling guns and ammunition to the hostile Indian tribes – who would then use those weapons to attack and savagely murder women and children in the frontier settlements – would be promptly hanged by his filthy neck for treason.

              Today, the Communists who flooded into our government along with the TOP Communist – are just as evil and dangerous as those hostile Indian tribes, and it is about danged time these ammunition manufacturers start viewing the government and every one of these ADL brainwashed and controlled law enforcement agencies the same way.

              • “Hostile Indian tribes”? Who was the hostile invader and who was sitting at home minding their own damn business? You clearly have no moral compass except that YOU are always right.

                • Shove your stinking, nauseating, self-hating, white guilt garbage up your disgusting rectum, pal.

                  Throughout world history, every single solitary tribe of humans have battled with other tribes of humans, or subhumans, for dominance and control over land, water, and other resources. The entire documented history of this world, moron, is nothing more than a chronicle of ethnic conflicts of this very nature and in each and every instance, the WINNER of these battles has laid claim to the land, water, or other resources.

                  So, imbeciles who spew the attitude that you do evidently believe that White Europeans and ONLY White Europeans are somehow expected to ‘feel guilty’ and ‘apologize’ for their victories over their ethnic competition? What other race is expected to do this, you greasy, stinking maggot?

                  Answer: No one except White men. In fact, every other race who is non-white – and especially the jews – actually declare national holidays whereby they commemorate and have huge celebrations that affirm how proud they are for defeating their ethnic enemies.

                  So, do me a favor, peckerwood. Shove your white guilt baloney up your filthy a-hole.

                  • Interesting how you appear to lack the ability to make a point without displaying a rather filthy mouth (keyboard).

                • And I haven’t missed a one of them

              • How many Native “women and children” do you see left in this country? What happened to them all?

                • They are “fine and dandy” getting free education, housing, and healthcare paid by stupid hardworking taxpayers. BTW they got their land back plus extras.

                  • Didn’t most indian’s get killed off by one or more of the hundred or so Other indian tribes Before whites came here? Kinda like how Negros kill negros if they got no whites to kill off.

                    It is good that american savage indians had such vast compassion for others, and whites especially, that them savages always tried to kill a white fast and clean same as an ethical deer kill. Hate to think how it would be if instead savage indians streched out the kill process by various hienious evil Tortures designed to inflict maximum Pain, and to cause suffering humans to need to wait three weeks after captured to actually finish dying.

                    Now That would really describe a total Savage Heathen or Beastly sub human animalistic attitude on the indians part no.

                    Between white guilt libs types and the usual troll types it seems harder and harder to determine which is worse.

                    Heres something to yell at me for ok…I think Todays savage sub human level african hoards(not all of course) are as bad as, early american savage heathen injuns when it comes to methods they Both enjoy employing to kill and rape white folks.

                  • You are all victims of brainwash. While many native Americans died from disease, many more inter-married. Same for whites and blacks. There was a show on TV a few years back where they DNA tested one of the “black” comedians and in fact his DNA was primarily from areas in Europe. Ironic since his stic was about black issues and his skin was as black as most in Africa. Similarly when they tested the “whites” they were like 25% African. If you lived in the south long you would know most everyone here is at least part native American. Reality is this “who massacred who” was not the majority of interaction. Apparently people made love more often than war (judging by the DNA and the family trees).

              • its a nice idea BUT the problem is that were not dealing with a normal Govt any more. what we have is a govt run by a Child and Oboob is the smallest child there can be when he doesn’t get his way he stamps his tiny feet on the ground.

                the he turns around and blames the repukes for all his problems. them or the white tea party.

                he figures if he cant ban guns the front way then he will ban them by the back door and Making ammo scarce is his way of holding us off till he gets his work done.

                Remember he was a community organizer he is good at getting other folks to do his work and never actually getting his hands dirty.

                and any major company that wants to do business in the USA had better play by his rules now. he never plays fair and he isn’t going to either its all about him winning at any and all costs. his massive ego wont let him fail and if he has to lie cheat and kill 4 americans to Reach his desired goals that’s fine by him.

                AFTER ALL he is THE ONE and as jamie foxx said our lord and Savior Barack Obama. is here to free the Black man from the chains of oppression.

                Troll killer

            • Do you think I would take your word that this is what happened? LOL

            • Not every ammo mfr. has a gov’t contract. AFAIK, all gov rifle ammo comes from Lake City. Pistol ammo probably from various mfrs.

        • I have $1M umbrella coverage on top of the $750K on my house and $300K on my autos. it is around $125-150/yr for this, less than the cost of a few boxes of ammo today.

        • Michael, if I were you I’d worry about getting out of Chicago!

        • Insurance policy? Proposed in one state but not aware of any states having such laws on the books. Which state or states? Limit on qty, ones I know of are by the dealer, not any law. Many Walmart stores have limits. Again, where are sales limited by quantity by law? They are TRYING for all you say plus MUCH more. The NJ “open mike comment” expresses the true end goal of those who say we need “sensible gun laws” – “confiscate!, confiscate!, confiscate!”. Watch “The History of Gun Control” on YouTube. This one video will wake up the most anti-gun people like no other who also want personal freedom.

      3. If LEO want ammo they will have to bow before the Great and Powerful DHS.

        • Probably not a bad idea.

        • They’ll need lubricating jelly.

          • Trojan Personal 113 degrees F.

            mine + mine. Hot dog!

          • There will be a shortage. It will cost 5x if you can find it or you will only be able to get the trial size.

        • I think that could be the plan. From my outsider’s point of view, it looks like local law enforcement and sheriffs, mostly those outside the local centres, have no love for the Feds. So I can surmise that the Feds think these locals and sheriffs could have loyalties and interests more aligned with the local populations instead of the master plan from DC.

          As such, I can definitely see DHS wanting to force loyalty from local law enforcement and sheriffs who might not “get on with the program” otherwise. Making the, dependent on the Feds for essentials like ammo would be a great way to force compliance.

          And that is not cooperation, BTW. Cooperation entails consent and willing participation; anything else is coercion.

          • Warning: DO NOT TRUST any cops. At least not blindly.

            When the SHTF, the same jackbooted, out of control, sadistic psychopaths with badges who we can all spend 6 or 8 hours a day watching on Youtube, beating the snot out of old ladies, women and kids along side the road, or grabbing a fistful of some 110lb teenage girl’s hair and slamming her head against the wall in a jackbooted thug interrogation room or where we see 10 or 15 jackbooted thugs piling on top of a prostrated guy on the ground and fighting with each other over getting an opportunity to land a punch, kick, nightstick or taser on the poor hapless guy – these are the same ‘cops’ who will be order to come after our firearms, folks.

            • If I still lived anywhere near a major city, I’d agree. One more advantage of living in a sparsely settled area is that you can get to know your local lawmen, as I do where I am. Would not have it any other way.

            • You are right…which is why we must KEEP our firearms and prepare to use them!

            • Shoot straight, watch your six. You know the most unlikely place to find out information about cops, especially bad ones, talk to strippers. Most cops are known philanderers, all the cops I knew were. When they go out for a night on the town you can spot them a mile away. Typical get up; fancy Bermuda shorts, boat shoes, Izod or Polo shirt, Permatex hair doo, enough Pierre cardin or Grey Flannel cologne to knock a horse down, arrogant attitude you cant touch with a ten foot pole, and mostly hang out in high end strip clubs. I’m not saying this about all cops, alot are good guys with good familys. But you can spot the bad ones, I could write a book about it, in a list of many allready out there. But when the time comes YOU will know which ones are bad. Stay Frosty, Shoot Straight, Watch ur Six

          • That is exactly what I was thinking. When everything goes down the cops are going to quit or side with the people for the most part and the feds don’t want them to have the means to resist.

            • I read an article by a LEO in AZ a month ago that discovered some of the “officers” he has worked with for years are planning on killing and taking food, guns and other supplies from people when the SHTF. These “officers” have made lists of people they know and what they have so they can raid them when WROL exists. Now those are the cops people should be aware of & unfortunately we must put ALL cops into that category. Never trust the police. EVER.

              • I live in AZ. This is 100 percent fact. Between all the Fed, state, and locals they will no doubt be a lethal bunch. I’m more concerned with them over gangs or cartels. If there is true WROL then that badge means nothing.

            • If you consider the timing of ammo shortages with recent UN global gun treaty, and the older UN papers that described how their NWO plans consist of Disarming all private citizens AND all cops nationwide and in EVERY nation worldwide, then dismantle every nations Militarys.

              So that eventually the Only armed persons will consist of what was back then, early 1990’s, called the UN-Rapid Response Force. Which will have a grand total of 100,000 fully armed Military, also to act as world police as needed. So in the UN NWO end gane scenario Only That UN rapid response force of 100,000 men, will be the only armed folks worldwide.

              Then with so many such agendas all at same time frame now occuring, perhaps we are now seeing the very early start of that agenda begining to take shape. And in such incremental steps, nobody not even cops have as yet noticed this phenomona for what it truly may indeed be.

              After all for the fed govnt and UN to attempt such massive disaraments, of even cops worldwide as well as every military in world, to do so by simple passage of a law or few laws may cause rioting By Police too. Zero ammo available for cops is almost equal to disarming cops same as private citizens right.

              If this insn’t what is really being done now, it still bears vigilance as sooner or later something Will be done to effect their overall disarming agenda with HQ at UN.

              • Gun without ammo = expensive paperweight even for the cops…

                • Guys: RELAX! I have been to every Ammo manuf site I can find. They all say the same thing; they are making millions of rds for the civilian market each day. We have at least doubled the amount we are importing, it’s an amazing quantity. They all say they are rapidly increasing the amount they can make and working overtime. At this rate by next year the whole country will be one big ammo dump

                • Police without ammo= a lot of innocents lives not taken from Police brutality.

              • A 100,000? fine by me, Who are they going to use the second night?

      4. I would think that the number of guns sold in the past 5 years would have something to do with the ammo shortage. Though not as much as DHS has ordered/requested/bought. Even if DHS were to stop or better yet, be denied hoarding ammo, I doubt the sheleves would ever be replenished on the retail level.

        • It would take weeks, if not months of uninterrupted production and stockpiling in factory warehouses to build enough of a stock to send out to distributors, followed by steady production to restock the shelves and eventually go back to normal. But that would mean no or very little new ammo on the shelves for some time.

          • Nobody will stock anything because of the ” just in time service mentality” that pervades most retail outlets these days.

            • that shit was started because most companies don’t want to do inventory at the end of the year and then pay tax.

              so basically they screwed them selves out of stock to have on hand all to save a few bucks

            • Not really true, the Smmo stores I usually go to have several million rds in stock during normal times, A pallet of 22 Ammo is 250,000 rds. they usually have 2-4 and several others. They are simply out. They don’t use as much just in time inventory because they know the usual sales pattern: 22 during the summer, shotgun and rifle in the fall and reloading supplies all winter. With a lead time that’s what the ammo makers make.

        • Figure a million new gun owners, and on average they all want 2000 rounds. How much ammo does that make?

          • Two billion.

      5. “Does the government expect some sort of widespread event that will require this ammunition be brought into service, perhaps like the economic collapse and civil unrest scenarios they’ve been war-gaming? Or, are they, as Senator Jim Inhofe recently suggested, hoarding ammunition intentionally as a way to attack the Second Amendment by reducing availability on the free market?”

        Yes. They want us to stay off their lawns. It’s to protect themselves and their corpo-crook friends.

      6. The .40 ammo the DHS has should be the same caliber the police use. The cops should get it from DHS.

        • Are you a moron? Did you even read the article at all?

      7. This is what happens.

        Once again, unintended consequences. Or… maybe intended? Nah. It would cause too many avoidable problems.

        See, now the gun manufacturers put you LAST on the list thanks to that Executive Order. So… too bad so sad.

      8. Its getting so bad that I got molds for 45 and 40 just so I can make cheap reloads for our EMS and fire dept guys, I trade ammo for powder and primers.


      9. To the police chief that does’nt prepare…..GO FISH.

      10. Do you really think they KNOW what they’re doing?

        I’m beginning to doubt it.

        It’s just been one spectacular fail after another since the second term.

        • Yes, they know. And its not an either or situation. They are both suppressing supply (raising prices and making it difficult and in some case impossible to obtain ammunition) AND stockpiling so that they can use it against U.S. Citizens. Along with the para-military police force they are building they are planning on unleashing Drones. The Drones are really the end game and what must be stopped. The are trying to destroy the Constitution line by line the Second Amendment, Sandy Hook False Flag to bolster unConstitutional gun grap, Boston False Flag to practice violating Forth Amendment and to bolster case for Drones and constant surveillance on citizens, various EOs, CISPA, various riders in bills, Utah Data Center to track all citizen transactions and communications (another attack on Fourth Amendment and chilling of First Amendment), internet trade taxes – attack on Tenth Amendment, threats against Governors of States for forming State Militias – Attack on Tenth Amendment, the explosion in West, Texas has been ruled a BOMBING, anyone with a lick of common sense can see from the videos it was a missile strike – probably another Attack on the Tenth Amendment and just baldfaced TREASON! All of these including Benghazi and the killing of Seal Team Six and lots of things not listed and probably thousands of things yet unknown are all violations of the Oath of Office and baldfaced outright in-your-face TREASON!

          “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”
          Marcus Tullius Cicero
          (106-43 B.C.)

          • Great read! Thank you very much! Thanks for the quoted statement from Marcus Tullius Cicero….going to use that as my signature on my emails.

      11. This is a raw materials issue plain and simple. We made the mistake of imagining that powder and primer was free-market. Probably hasn’t been for years. Pinch the hose there and a trickle comes out the end.

      12. This is beyond ridiculous. Put that bull dyke Napolitano on a leash. These morons are wrecking the entire country. This is why federalism doesn’t work.

      13. I know my local sheriff personally, so I’d loan his dept ammo if I had any they they use, (I don’t). I’d much rather he owed me a favor rather than have him get it from DHS, ’cause they’ll put their hooks into him for sure.

      14. I see a couple wrong perceptions with this whole lack of ammo situation.

        For one, Supply and Demand… If there is a supply demand, then why aren’t businesses starting up to manufacture ammunition?
        For another, certain Firearm Manufacturers have denied LEO’s and Government actual firearms based on the notion of “If citizens can’t have them, neither can you”.
        So why aren’t ammunition makers doing the same thing?
        Or at the very least, stating that Government/LEO can only buy in a ratio of 1:1 to civilian purchases.

        To me it just seems like a perfect business venture to get into?

        • CCI and Hornaday have both said it’s NOT the Gov. Horn said they are significantly increasing ammo production and the Gov is buying less 5% of what they make. CCI says they are making 22 ammo 24/7 at 4 million per day. It’s just people buying it. I was just setting here a few minutes ago wishing I had bought a bunch last summer when one of my favorite stores had a pallet of 22; and remembered I had bought two blocks, 10,000 rds, Now if I could only remember where I put them. People there is a LOT of ammo out there.

          • There is alot of ammo in personal gun safes. Owners are just wanting to rotate stock as they use it at the gun range and hunting while keeping a reasonable stock. The shortage is happening because others are catching on that there will be a real crackdown on supply and componants. Try to buy bullet molds and componants… Out of Stock.

          • If you know where and when to look. Plus there is components out there to produce billions of rounds.

            This article is a good argument to get a rifle that is not a military caliber. Plenty of ammo and/or components in my neck of the woods for 25-06, .270, and 7 mag. All great calibers that out perform the .223.

            • Don’t forget .243 Winchester!

              • .243, yes, but there has been a shortage of .243 ammo at my local stores. Not sure of the cause. Maybe because it is the most popular rifle cal. based on reloading die sales.

                I just look at the ammo shelves for recon. We have been reloading everything except .22 we shoot for the last 25 years.

          • There is alot of hoarding and planning on re selling bartering when/if the SHTF. Not to mention the fantasy of a gunbattle with the forces of evil.

        • BINGO!!!!

        • @ The Black because noone blames the bullet, they blame the gun. At least since the 80’S when everyone was scared of the fabled cop killer bullet that went through 2 building a car and a vest.

        • Remington just announced that they are going to put $32 million into an expansion of ammo mfg. capacity.

      15. >>”said Woberg, “I know that if I need ammunition I have citizens out there that will gladly come forward.””<<

        Hmmm. If the police cannot obtain ammunition, and they are given priority before everyone else, that spells major trouble. What will the police do when the SHTF and there really is an ammo shortage? This is happening now and the crap has not yet hit the fan???

        That is exactly when I would not want to give away my ammo inventory. You don't know how bad things might get. Tough call to make. In a county that has a high percentage of carry concealed permits, criminality is low to begin with, compared to someplace like Chicago.

        • I am the buyer for our SO…We have had 5.56mm on backorder since last Sept….before NewTown….
          Other calibers have been backordered since Jan, including 9mm, 40S&W, 45acp, 12ga 00 Buck…

          The only stuff that came in withing a few weeks was .380…

          • knightowl77,

            Ouch!!! As an avid competitive shooter, except for .22LR ammunition, I have not bought loaded factory ammunition for the past 8 years every since I started reloading and handloading. From time to time I drift through Wal-mart and stop by to see what ammo they have on their shelves. Empty with dust. I’ve never seen it this bad before. The government has their own ammunition plant(s) to supply the military and federal agencies.

            The ammo shelves are bare and we have yet to actually see a full blown national crisis develop. It sounds like local departments may have to resort to some sort of cooperative effort to supply or manufacture their own ammunition. A gun with no ammo is just a very expensive paper weight.

      16. At 1:12 he is called a Dork?

      17. There’s a few departments in my general area that are having these same problems, not just larger cities but small ones as well. It’s gone as fast as it hits the shelves. Haven’t been able to find 9 or 40’s period. Go to larger stores….”ain’t got it” Go to mom and pop stores…..”ain’t got it”

        It’s hitting our smaller communities. You have to shoot to stay fresh. But you have to save cause you can’t find it. To shoot or not to shoot, that is the question.

        Standing by in the heartland,

        • Did you catch that fallacy in the news report, the one that most sheeple beleive: “the police are sworn to protect us, the public”. The don’t stop crimes, they get there after the fact to gather info from the victim and and evidence from the crime scene. Each person is responsible for their own defense, not the police.

        • You can stay sharp with a blowback style BB pistol or an airsoft pistol. They provide sight picture and trigger control practice at a fraction of the current cost for pistol ammo. Ammo for rifle training is an issue and will be for a long time to come.

          On another note, if you’re a reloader or if you even think you might get into it someday, stocking up on powder NOW while a special license is NOT required to purchase it is probably a good investment. Bullets primers and brass are another issue entirely. There just isn’t much available, at least where I live.

        • They need to bite the bullet so to speak and pay the higher on line prices. They get re inbursed anyway and if they end up having none when they really need it how snart was saving a few bucks? Were I a cop I would get my own and not rely on the dept.

        • I can go out and put 3 dead center at 20 yards…when I fail to do that. I’ll get my eyes checked.

          I’m not planning on shooting at little red dots during SHTF.

      18. F.U.C.K. T.H.E.M.

      19. Why would one bother giving there own personal ammo to the Police, at the very least make some profit off it

        • Because there are places around where the police work for the public and are our friends and neighbors. Not a bunch of wackos. If my home town PD wanted ammo, I’d be happy to provide.

      20. A couple of local police departments are inconsequential.

        The govt. agencies that make a difference all have ammo.

        • Selkirk,

          You bring up a good question. Exactly how well stocked are federal agencies? We don’t really know. Is the shortage at the state and local level an isolated event? Or is this a larger systemic problem? I know the government has the Lake City Missouri ammunition plant running at full capacity, but one plant cannot supply all the ammo for the military and federal agencies. The backlog of ammo from private ammunition suppliers such as ATK must be significant if local police have to wait a year to get their ammo orders delivered.

          • I have no way of knowing this, but I assume that the federal agencies have pre-existing arrangements with ammunition manufacturers. Some businesses are built entirely on govt. contracts, and I don’t mean deals with the local sheriff. Hell, there are probably manufacturers I’ve never even heard of, who just supply the big govt. agencies. Personally, I doubt the feds are running short on anything.

            On the other hand, if you’re right YH, maybe people hoarding ammo really is putting a hurt on the capacity of federal agencies. In that case, I say hoard all you can.

            I bought 500 rounds of .22LR earlier today just because it was in stock for like an hour. While I was at the store, another guy was in an all out panic trying figure out ways around the 3 box/ 1 bulk pack daily limit at Dick’s. He seemed genuinely upset that he could only buy 500 rounds for the whole day.

            My initial thought was that he had a big squirrel hunt and family reunion planned, and that there just wouldn’t be enough squirrel stew to go around if he didn’t get like 5000 rounds of ammo.

            Then I remembered that I’m in NY and we’re a couple of months away from the required background checks for every last shell kicking in. I guess people think it’s their last chance to stock up before Big Brother starts keeping track. Or maybe there’s a zombie apocalypse coming that I don’t know about yet.

            In either case, every govt agency that’s running short kind of has it coming. Nothing against any particular LEO, but as ye sow, so shall ye reap.

            Any time I’ve actually needed an LEO in NY, they’ve been totally useless anyway. I’d prefer that they were unarmed.

            • Selkirk,

              As for me, I’ve seen enough articles, videos, and accounts of victims calling for police help only to be treated like criminals when the police arrive. And let’s not forget the illegal warrantless door to door searches and forced “evacuations” we saw in Boston after the bombings. Nope, if the police run out of ammo, I’ll take my chances one-on-one with the criminals. At least I know where they stand.

              • A good cop is in an unenviable position.

                He’s always subject to the decisions of his superiors whose agendas aren’t always clear, and daily accountable for the poor judgment of his peers.

                Yeah, I railed on about Boston for a day, and caught a bunch of flak for it. I don’t so much as spit on the sidewalk, myself, but locking down and searching neighborhoods to get one 19 year old bothers me on principle.

                Right now I want the cops to deal with criminals for me. That’s what they’re paid for. The main reason for that is that all things aren’t equal in that fight. There’s no castle law in NY, let alone a stand your ground law, and it’s practically impossible to get a legal CCW around here. Citizens have a legal obligation to flee in this state.

                The criminals, here I’m talking principally of the little red and blue gangsters who are slinging dope all around the city, have guns. They also don’t really care about getting arrested and potentially doing a decade in the state pen. So that’s not a fair fight.

                Once again, It’s the power of the government that prevents me from defending myself. They’d damned well better fill the gap. If they make laws that compromise their ability to defend me, maybe they need to re-examine them.

                • >>”Once again, It’s the power of the government that prevents me from defending myself.”<<

                  Move. Take your tax dollars and vote with your feet if there are no more legal political solutions left. There is only so much you can do at the voting booth.

                  That's why I won't pay taxes or support any political infrastructure that gives the criminals or police a decisive or strategic advantage over me as a citizen and taxpayer. If the politicians and corrupt police want to impose a lawless police state, they will do it without my overt fiscal or political assistance.

                  Let them make bricks without hay as the saying goes.

                  • You’re absolutely right, and I’d be out of this state immediately if I didn’t have other obligations holding me here. Maybe within a year or two.

                    One of my long term concerns is that the entire country will more or less be like NY eventually, and then there will be no place to move to.

                    At a certain point, you have to say no, this is my home and I should do my part in creating the right kind of community here. While I’m not attached to NY, I am attached to the United States.

          • Lake City doesn’t make .40, or 9mm, or .22 ammo. Only 5.56×45, 7.62×51, and .50 BMG.

            • Thanks Old Coach,

              I knew Lake City made rifle ammo, but I wasn’t sure about pistol ammo. ATK took over management of the Lake City plant from Remington in 2001. ATK supplies a large percentage, if not most, of the pistol ammunition for the federal government. They must manufacture the pistol ammo at a different location. I stand corrected.

        • I disagree Selkirk. When people are hungry anyone with a gun in there hand is consequential. The person you know is not gonna hurt you and your family is yourself. And that is were your ammo should stay.

      21. Hoard and store what ever you can. Stop all practice at the range, you’re wasting ammo that can’t be easily replaced. If you’re still asking yourself when the S will HTF, you’re too late, it already happened. So now you’re just living in denial now. Wakey wakey, hands off snakey”
        We’re in the game now folks, so start playing for real, cause its Game on!

        • I agree with Cede, it has already begun. I am getting frustrated that people are being so slow to accept this fact. I am aware that this is hard to accept but you only have to be a little aware of what is happening around and to us on a daily basis. Here is a short list of restrictions being put on American citizens in just the last week:

          1. 3D printer gun plans scrubbed fro the net by the government.

          2. IRS admits, for no reason I can see, to harassing certain political groups for there political ideologies. As a side note on this let me say I have personal experience that Veterans Groups have also been targeted.

          3. The President and other senior government heads have been accused with lying to the American public for political purposes.

          4. In the Waco Texas area it has been reported that what the government once thought was an industrial accident they have now opened a criminal investigation because evidence is being revealed to show it may have been a terrorist act.

          5. An investigation is being requested in the case of the odd / coincidental deaths of the special forces who participated in the Bin Laden assassination.

          And there is more I am sure that I cannot remember or recall off hand. Don’t forget the paper PM scandal that is brewing. My point being that how many egregious acts have to be committed to people of this country before they realize that they are under attack?


      22. Random thoughts…

        1) My neighbor’s friend works for Federal in MN. The friend said Federal would be done with its gubberment contract ‘by the end of the summer’ and Federal would start fulfilling civilian contracts in the fall. Take it for what it’s worth (not much).
        2) DHS is violating a set of federal laws called the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR). Stockpiling supplies beyond what is needed in any Fiscal Year is considered Fraud, Waste and Abuse and is a crime. (But when are liberals ever forced to follow the law)?
        3) I’ve got mine. The missus was yelling and yelling about the ammo in the basement. She yelled and yelled about the silver coins I was buying. She questioned the food storage (but didn’t yell). Last week I pointed out that I could no longer effectively purchase two of the three things I was stockpiling. Maybe food’s next?

        And with that happy thought, it’s time for a little Woodford Reserve poured over a cube of ice.

        Have a great weekend!

        • Mal. Gonna have to try some of the Woodford Reserve.

          • Official Bourbon of the Kentucky Derby!


      23. Although I know many local LEO’s and trust them personally trust their department is a completely different animal, giving them any of my ammo just isn’t going to ever happen.

        Even my LEO friends say 10% of the force is willing to disarm the public, so why would I help even 10% practice my own destruction?

        • y99,

          Outstanding point!

        • Right on. It’s not about the individual. It’s about the institution.

      24. Everything is planned..everything!

        Nothing is by accident..

        The fact that ammo mfrs are running 24/7 and still ammo is not available/plentiful perfectly tells the story..

        and where the hell is all the 22lr..not even requisitioned by dhs?


        • DHS is expecting a squirrel revolt.

          • HA!

        • How about a nice game of tic tac toe…

          • You’re not Ted Kennedy. I knew Ted Kennedy, and Ted Kennedy’s dead.

            • smell me

            • Name dropper. You love me.

              • Nobody remembers Dan Quayle around here?

          • Later. Let’s play global thermonuclear war.

        • It’s amazing how the human mind is conditioned to freeze once the questions get too deep or scary.

          You can’t make .22lr without primer and powder… you can’t make any ammo. Sandy Hook and the whole gun debate program was a smoke screen. The elite control the powder and have for some time. Your gun becomes a club when there is no ammo. Why bother trying to take the guns? Too difficult.

          The best way to take something from someone is when they aren’t looking. While you’ve been getting all jacked up about protecting your precious guns, they have been slowing the powder supply.

          Oh, we would know if they were controlling the powder… Really? Look at the impact of g’memt sponsored corporatism in all other areas… food, medicine, farming, water, manufacturing, infotainment, etc.

          • I couldn’t agree more. Whoever they are are goin after powder not guns. Exactly the right point!!!!!!

        • Last Friday my local wal-mart had 3 boxes (1 per customer) of .22lr hollow points a box of 350 cost $28.00 don’t remember what brand or where I put the box. I better get my memory better before SHTF, if I can’t find my ammo it’s the same as not having it. Prepping takes up a lot of space not to mention money, but I truly believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
          Keep hoarding, worse care scenario is we’re keeping it out of commie hands or guns for that matter.

      25. Of course Im suspicious….is DHS trying to disarm not only the people but the local cops?…or something else?…whatever it is Im wary.
        Id have at one time gladly helped the cops out…back in my younger days when cops were on average better people and I hadnt seen what Ive since seen…I think Ill just hold onto my guns and my ammo and regardless of whether or not the cops have ammo at least I and mine will…might be safer if they have none…guess ill cross that bridge when/if I get to it.

        • You can see the Obama administration is trying to pass bills to arrest Sheriffs who refuse to enforce gun control.

          • What bills, exactly?

            I’ll ring up my congressmen to vote against them.

          • eisen- that would be the DOJ
            and it was specific to colorado .

      26. The Reds hope their “Red Dawn” will be a lot redder if they dry up the cartridges first.

      27. The finished products, ammunition, is only the beginning as the powder and other necessary items to make “your own” will start to show up massive shortages. Already in some areas this is a fact. It is interesting that with that useless un treaty from the absolutely useless un, that some foreign companies could take up the slack. I am all for ‘all American’ products being made in the USA, but I don’t like seeing these shortages, it freaks me out. You go in the local sporting goods store and you only see uncommon calibers and the other shelves are bare.

        I wonder just how many the DHS is going to store, 5 billion, 20 billion? I wonder if this is not just for their use, but to kill the markets for the regular citizens. BO has not had much support or success in killing the 2nd Amenedment straight forward. 🙂 Unfortunately there are these snake like backdoor approaches of making it more and more difficult in costs and availability to get the ammo or the materials you need to make it youself. 🙁

        Something else that should worry everyone and is mentioned above, target practice. When you go out to the shooting range, there “aint” anyone because people just don’t want to deplete their stockpile at all. This could be part of the plot also is to stop or slow down the practice that is needed with firearms to stay sharp.

        Here is the ugliest of them all. DHS and the government continues to stockpile so much that they decide to make a nice profit off of selling the excess. Not to the American people, but to the Chinese. I would not put anything past the government at this point times have become so awful.

        • Right on BI…
          Used to like plinking with the 22… no more.
          Now days, its the pump up air rifle…
          and working on a new kind of ‘mass accelerator’… we’ll see how it works out…
          If push comes to shove, buy a dewalt battery operated nail gun…

          • Mass drivers, eh? Now you are talking like a Centauri readying to bomb the Narn home world.

            • Wouldn’t you like to know…

              • I already saw the episode. The Centauri hegemony was brief… the Narns were free.

        • Yo, Adam Kokesh and Apologists For:

          Instead of grandstanding on 7/4 and getting a felony rap for your naive asses, do something that moves the game forward.

          Reconnoiter where DHS stores those hundreds of millions of rounds. Use your “if I think I”m Rambo, I am” tactical prowess to liberate a few hundred tons of their ammo.
          A citizens’ requisition. Concord and Lexington in reverse.

          Sell them for bitcoins on encrypted websites. Become a legend in your time instead of in your own mind.

          If you want to do some hard time, do it for something that makes a difference.

          Note to the Utah Data Center: just kidding. running scenarios here, just like you do.

        • I have this if anyone wants to pay shipping and cost of the rifle:
          RWS Ruger Air Magnum .22 Caliber Air Rifle Combo 4x32mm Scope Synthetic Stock Black

          And a box of 400 pellets which aren’t scarce or hard to find.

          Note to idiot: a Ruger Air Rifle is NOT like the BB gun you had as a child and not intended for small framed women with very short arms.

          • idiot being self. Yep–I had no idea what a big gun this is.

      28. those 2 old ladies delivering newspapers in LA would have been safer if the cops didnt have the ammo to shoot 47 rounds in the back of their truck thinking they were one black man named Chris Dormer. ( they burned him out) (and the property owners house)

      29. a Walmart employee told me that they can’t tell me when they are getting shipments to protect themselves. Apparently we’re an unruly mob ?

        • Stay high, never hang low, get picked last.

        • That’s a crock. At our local WalMarts (2 I visit), the employees are calling and texting buddies when the ammo comes in, and they line up at 7:00 AM for it. It’s turning up at the shows and online for double and triple the price.

      30. ‘ Ammo ?’

        ‘ They don’t need no stinking Ammo !’ ;0p

        Give em’ (as a loan) your kids Wrist Rocket sling shot and a Bag of Marbles … that’s all they need to ‘ Enforce da’ Law ‘.

        * I think this is a good thing it will cause some of the Lil’ Blue Piggies to see the Truth of whats goin’ on across the country and wake up to THE ZOG ZIONIST FEDGOV STATEGOV FASCISM reality of whats AmeriKa become .

        ‘ Welcome to the Revolution Party LawDawg Boys and Girls !’

        ‘ Now … Choose a Side !’


        • “your kids Wrist Rocket sling shot and a Bag of Marbles … that’s all they need to ‘ Enforce da’ Law ‘.”

          That one put a 🙂 on my face!

      31. In my comment #1645354 on the 3-D article I posted 2 links for other articles on this same subject. I’ve got it on good authority from a source in my local PD that DHS will provide them with ammo ONLY if they play ball with them on gun confiscation. I don’t regret for 1 minute stockpiling like crazy for all 3 calibers I have during last year all the way up until the panic buying. I still blame the BOY in the WH and the gun grabbers when they started talking all their trash plus DHS contracting for so much didn’t help things either. Since last December, I’ve only bought 1 brick of .22lr and 3 boxes of .30 Carbine and that’s all I found at gun shows. Still got plenty of .40. Once a month I strip down all my weapons just to make sure they’re good to go when TSHTF. On providing ammo to LE, I can see providing ammo to an individual officer ONLY IF I KNEW THAT PARTICULAR OFFICER WAS AGAINST THE NWO AGENDA AND WOULD NOT FOLLOW ORDERS TO CONFISCATE GUNS. NO WAY I’LL PROVIDE ANY AMMO TO AN ENTIRE DEPT. It’s a safe bet that every dept. out here has a certain percentage that drink the federal koolaid and will follow gun confiscation orders. Otherwise, I’m keeping my supply. I’ll need it for the war that is definitely coming. braveheart

        • Amen braveheart.
          Why would I give LEO anything… if the SS comes to town, I have it on good authority, that the majority of local LEOs will not appreciate it. A buddy of mine, retired LEO, has quite a collection of full auto w/Fed licenses. He said if it comes to that, he’ll let me use the street sweeper… he also has a Thompson(HEAVY!)… and one sweet machine w/a 100 round dual drum mag…

          I hope I never get to use them.
          I’m afraid I will.

        • FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH,…i’D LIKE TO SAY AS AN aMERICAN pATRIOT,ARE YOU A SICK AND TWISTED PERSON BEGGING FOR Lakeside Behavioural Institute ….or…., Are you HELL BENT ON THE OVERTHROW OF OUR SOVERIENTY are youin need of Psychiatric help …..?Of all of your affiliation to Cuba… do you rally think your beliefs will ou t run the GOVERNMENT! You are what we call in the “TEAM” an old clown with no scrupples and as far as that goes … educate youself on OPSEC/ COMSEC

        • You have issues and no answers asshole !NO OFFENSE Dickhead 1 It’s people like you that have people on edge ! Hopeefully 201 Poplar will interveine !

      32. Good evening, BI, and once again your points are well taken by me. On practice, I practice with an old Crosman .177 pellet pistol. I picked up some extra pellets and CO2 cartridges for it last weekend. At least those 2 items are still in good supply. I do miss going to the range, though. Although the Crosman is fun, it’s still gratifying to feel the “real deal” on occasion. braveheart

        • You are absolutley the stupidist mutha fuka on the planet !….With out a doubt !!!!MPD WATCHING!!!!!!RAZORS EDGE !

        • You are absolutley the stupidist mutha fuka on the planet !….With out a doubt !!!!MPD WATCHING!!!!!!RAZORS EDGE !

        • Sissy.


      33. When the cops run out of ammo, the Feds will roll in with theirheavy weaponry. Quickly declaring Martial Law & institute the NWO. Just my 2 cents

        • Sick,

          My 3 cents is the police aren’t what will keep us free. We are what will keep us free.

          Armor needs to be refueled somewhere. And re-armed. Helicopters ditto. Amerikan Gestapo need to eat and sleep and get that cavity drilled somewhere. They have physical locations, they need convoys, and a lot of useful “little people” know info that eventually will help us even the odds.

          When the Abrams tanks start rolling down our streets, the power vermin and their running dogs better put their families underground because total war means exactly that.

          If our families are on the line so are theirs. You think they won’t take out your family if it means getting you? Wake the F up.

          Tell me about the indigenous Afghan air force. Tell me about the vietcong navy or the tupemaro special forces. How did that turn out for the First World militaries prosecuting those wars?

          Elitist vermin warmongers trump up war to make a few hundred billion more for themselves and their useful idiot underlings. They didn’t care how many working class guys die making it happen]

          Afghanistan is called the Graveyard of Empires. Why do you think that is?

          All the high tech shit in the world can’t stop a large enough group of people from being self determining.

          Even if they hafta fight for generations. And some of them have.

          • @anon6.8 first let me tell you I agree with the resist at all cost attitude. And I would be right there next to you fighting tooth and nail to support our Constitution. But the days of Red Dawn are gone. Hypothetically we could fight an A symmetrical war in the U.S. but the problem with that is that the objective of that type of fighting is to make it cost or be too big of a problem for the aggressor to stay so they leave. But the enemy is from here and will never leave. And I can tell you from my experiences in Iraq a city can be cord end off and swept taking everything from you very easily. It is not a good life after that. And there is no question the U.S. Military OWNS THE NIGHT! 1 Marine with a PEQ2 on his rifle and a set of NVG’s can easily take out 30-50 men without.
            Now do I think we should give up if our Constitution is under attack I say NUTS! But do I think it will be easy or even worth it? Well when the smoke clears is it ever? That’s something we will all have to answer ourselves.

      34. “When you go out to the shooting range, there “aint” anyone because people just don’t want to deplete their stockpile at all.”

        Not always the case. Our local gun club had to stop taking applications for membership just after Christmas because there was too many people wanting to join.

      35. I would tell them to eff off. Sorry. I have seen them shoot and training ain’t helping them at all. Govt agencies can pound sand at this point. Ask BO for aid. If these were Syrian police I am sure they would have bullets tommorrow.

        • You mean Syrian rebels don’t you, gonetoolong??

          • I was generically refering to twisted Syrian towel heads hell bent on destroying the infidel that we have no business medeling with anyhow. I used police because this article is about police. America has no business fucking with the Syrian govt or rebels. Both would love to see us dead. I have not heard anyone yet mention what the hell they are even on our radar. Must keep the troops employed? Hell I don’t know.

      36. The ammo shortage for the local LEO is not a bad thing for the average citizen. Since when do they need more than 100 rounds per year to defend themselves against cornered criminals? An ammo shortage means that they can’t takeover very many enclaves without consquences. However, that type of shortage could mean that they (DHS)don’t trust the local indiginous cops who have families in any given location. We must try to bring these people into our group (with caution). Their police and military training will be important to our survival and prospering. We don’t need them to survive but they could make it easier on the average surviver family and their own family. They must understand that they need us too.

        • Cops who don’t practice are the cops who fire 40 rounds at a perp and miss with 95%. Like in NYC where they shot, what was it, 9 bystanders?

      37. Let freedom ring… citizens stockpiling ammo.

        Yeah… I’m very sound in my belief that the American spirit is alive and well.

        ps. Screw you IRS for targeting tea parties.
        We know some folks who had a don’t tread on me flag and got audited.
        Obama, you suck. Commie.

        • Ain’t that so right…

          To you Feds… I made up an emoticon just for you…
          can you tell what it is?

          To the ‘good guys’ in the Fed establishment… when the time comes, you better know which side your bread is buttered on… the leaders in suits… those making you do stuff that is illegal, unethical and damages your soul… you will know what to do when the time comes. Listen to your conscience, or join them at the wall.

          • Try using one they can see:

            ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
            ……….”…\………. _.·´

            Isn’t ASCII art fun?

            I got this from www(dot)ascii-middle-finger(dot)com.

            • Very good one Archivist.
              Love ascii art… doesn’t always translate in some fonts though…
              Besides, that’s ART… too blunt, I was trying to get down to the most minimalist level, for subtlety. emoticons fit the bill…

              • Thumbs down, for art…
                wow, I see the trolls are back in force.

                • I see the trolls are back
                  Somebody must have turned the lights off Cockroaches running Everywhere.

              • I was surprised that there was a whole website just to show that finger.

          • PM…”the leaders in suits”. I like your thinking. I have come to believe that a suit and tie are merely another “uniform” of oppression in this day and age.

            • JRS,
              Too many of us sit around waiting for ‘God’ to do EVERYTHING. This is a doctrine of preachers, not Biblical doctrines. Apathy is king, and complacency breeds contempt, from on high.
              We were told to fight “spiritual wickedness in HIGH places”, that we are the hands of Justice. God helps those who help themselves.
              The Jews, during WWII, were positively convinced that The Messiah would come to rescue them from the Nazi’s… how did that work out for them?

      38. Chief Wobig should just allow some bogus overtime to his and the deputies pay and order it online…..

      39. Anyone who gives up their bullets to cops is fucking stupid. “i want the piggies to owe me” Dumb bitch they already owe you !!! Oh well !!!!!

      40. Howdy, PM, when DHS and foreign troops show up on our streets, I’ll just take whatever weapons, ammo, equipment, etc. I can find from the dead ones. Once they show up, the lead will fly and the weapons will become available in a heartbeat. i’m afraid it’s coming to that and we’re running out of time. braveheart

        • You’ve been saying that the last few years. Oh, the apocalypse is coming. Oh yes. I’m scared.

        • Yup, that’s the plan… hopefully, I’ll get me a blue helmet or a nazi helmet and used body armor too….

          Which begs the question… do head shots work with these goons, or do I have to find chinks in their armor? I was thinking neck shots. (Since I practice on small cans, pencil necks should be no problem at about 50yds or less.)

        • Oh man, you have to love a good Rambo fantasy. You’re just going to open fire and clear out a squad huh? Man you must be some sort of James Bond. Let me bring your fantasy back to the real world and fix that statement for you…

          “Once they show up, lead will fly and they will pick the weapons and ammo off of my dead body and carry on.”

          Unless you are the commander of some platoon, stacked with hardware and training, you aren’t doing shit. The smart person knows when to evade and escape.

          • Arkaden, you new here ain’t ya?
            There are citizen squads my friend…
            They get bigger all the time.
            As the boot comes down harder, the anger grows, it will become a veritable tidal wave after Obamacare.
            I was laughing at a dem friend the other day… his employer cut off his health insurance while telling them they had a choice between that or their jobs…
            This friend was moaning… he had voted for Obama… I laughed… “What the f**k did you THINK was gonna happen!” and he spluttered “But… but… he LIED!”
            BWAHaha hahahahahahaha

            He’s beginning to turn his own against him as they begin to witness the Death of America. They only accept it, when it affects THEM.
            God help us all.

            • Reality Survival Tip for anyone who thinks he and his neighbors can take a squad of Marines or the equivalent. Next time you go to the range take a tarp and a campbell’s soup can with both sides cut out. Lay down with the tarp over you and put the can sticking out from under it and practice shooting through the can. But only shoot once and make the range 300 yards or more. Then you might have a chance of living.

            • PS: There will be lots of escaping and evading, but you need to understand that class III licenses have been available for a looooong time.
              Oh, and a personal homemade cannon can really get the job done, w/homemade BP.

              • James Wesley Rawles is that you?

          • @Arkaden- there aint a smart one IN this bunch.
            Therein lies the problem. Read over this while thread again and pay attention to how many have “contacts” in the Local Police……… are “friends” with the Police Chief who told them……….” and heard from a Contact that DHS said……”
            they are disillusioned kooks.

      41. Why is there an ad for “” on here?? AYFS??

        • I wondered the same thing…..?????

      42. Like many of you, I’ve been practicing lead conservation for a while now. I just hope braveheart is right and there’ll be some goodies to take off the room temperature goons.

        (note to yental and Piper- thanks guys, I knew you’d understand.)

        And, all the news lately is really depressing me. Can’t use the ammo therapy technique. Can’t drink and truck. Can’t seem to get enough time off to even get in any fishing. Only option in to let my mind wander back into that alternate universe where it used to live. Dang! And after all those promises to mrs okie that I’d try to be more ‘normal’.
        **Caution** It may start getting weird around here! Bugtussle A&M here I come!

        • AF Blues

        • We love you too smokin…

        • @ okie, I too am suffering from “lack of range time-itis”. Been an active “ballistic placement aficionado” since I was 8 years old. (got my first rifle, maybe a Texas thing)

          I still fondly remember the “good-ole-days” when all I had to do was drive outside of the city limits, find a bridge (even a low one over a drainage ditch) and shoot to my hearts content. No “official gun range”, and usually other shooters doing the same.

          Can’t even imagine the level of “civilian horror” and SWAT TEAM activity that same activity would produce today!

          • Everybody in my neighborhood practices in their backyards. But I haven’t heard any gunshots lately.

      43. egg eater

      44. These people are crazy giving anything to the cops. Things are indeed starting to get interesting.
        It’s my humble opinion that we have not seen anything yet. The same cops they gave the ammunition to, might use it against them.

      45. in a pig’s eye… he should simply deputize the town rather than expect that the towns’ folk would give up a crucial element of self-defense… sorry charlie, my charity and good will end before turning over what could well be used against me… go ask big sis for your fair share and if you did, well, suck it up and chalk it up to hard times…

        pray for the best while prepping for the worst

      46. I wouldn’t give most cops a stale moldy eclair , how bout a refund for all the BS traffic tickets over twenty years + interest first.

      47. If these PDs can’t find ammo online in bulk, they need to take a course in Google. I shop two main sites for my bulk ammo purchases and the ONLY thing they are out of is .22LR. I’m looking at thousands of rounds of .40 right now on I can see civilians not wanting to buy ammo online due to privacy but a PD should have no issues.

      48. No bullets for the cops? Too bad. Don’t give cops bullets unless they are actually shooting at the feds defending US. Getting tired of reading all the bad news about a whole bunch of crap I have no influence over. Today is mint jelly day. Wife and I just picked a whole bunch of mint and will make some awesome mint jelly. Tomorrow will be strawberry jam day. Mmmmmm good… Need something sweet for when Armageddon comes. Maybe I’ll run down to the police station and give them a jar of strawberry jam, and a loaf of home made bread… lolol!!!

      49. Thank you for calling the MindBender Mental Health Center. How can I help you?

        ‘Yeah, I been kinda depressed lately. You got any ammo for sale there?’

        No sir. We don’t.

        ‘You got any storable food? At 1990s prices?’

        No sir.

        ‘Got any good news? Like maybe decreasing crime and better weather?’


        ‘Well, have you got tonight’s lotto numbers?’

        No. We don’t have anything like that.

        ‘Then what DO you have to treat depression?’

        We have 600 channels on cable. And drugs. Lots of drugs.

        ‘Uh….no thanks.’

      50. Eisen’s back. Mac, the dog peed on the carpet again.

        • Yeah, and he brought a pack of trolls with him… 😉

      51. Stockpiled? More likely being sold (run) by this Administration (both for profit and ideological objectives) to criminal elements and enemies of the United States, and doing it with taxpayer funds.

      52. Can’t trust the pig pukes they are cataloging ammo and gun owners. Keep your bullets.

      53. ZOG DUMMIES …

        this message is to the FEDS now blocking me from accessing @SHTFPLAN on my mainline … notice lil’ ZOG FED piggies that I’m still posting .


        go figure .

        i got redundant backup to the web .


        zog piggy dummies .



          Israeli Hasidic Jews attack and intimidating with no valid reason , cyclist American Rafael Huerta on an American Street .

          We reached out to Huerta to ask for his perspective on the incident. He explained that he records all of his bike rides, Russian dashcam-style, for protection in the even of an incident like this one, and that it was the first time he’s harassed on his bike:

          I was trying to keep calm and collected but I was pretty shook after the event. I pretty much took it all in afterwards and realized how bad it really was. I was quite surprise when this happened because I’ve never had anyone harass me on my bike. I’ve been taking the same route from work to home and vice versa for more than a year. The bike lane on Flushing leads me away from my home, which is Walton street. I started to record my bike rides for my protection just in case anything happens.




      54. The way I see it is if I have to stand in line for two hours to get my weekly allotment of 1-value pack or 2-regular boxes of ammo LEO’s can do the same thing, they sure as heck wont be getting a hand out from me that’s for sure ! Local Bass Pro had (up until this past week)been pretty good about telling you when the shipment was to arrive. Well they ain’t doing that any more now. Called in earlier this week & was told shipment was scheduled for today. Just for the heck of it I stopped in yesterday and low & behold the shipment had already came in & they were already sold out of 22LR. Was able to pick up a couple of boxes of 9mm JHP’s. Trying to get it as & while I can here !

      55. One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.

        One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.

        One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle.
        Sun Tzu

        Keep the FAITH

      56. Hey All,
        If local PD is out of ammo, that would be their misfortune for not planning ahead. Not my responsibility to make up for others ill plans.

        As for comments on DHS actually having 2 billion rounds stockpiled? I believe this is misinformation. They have a standing order for “filling”.

        And, for that matter, when they do stockpile, consider it as public property, as we did pay for it. Something for future use by any party with access to it.
        Anyone catching my unpropelled vector as I travel with water current?

        Another thought, with all the shortfalls in products on shelves and the gun buying hysteria. Do you really think the government did NOT realise this would happen? I mean, come on….they are not that stupid…Any of you-all thought that the government might actually want to arm the American Public???
        Just asking

        The reason the Japanese never seriously considered invading USA during WWII, was they knew there would be a firearm behind every blade of grass. I do not think much has changed, in fact the American public has become far more sophisticated in defense and offesive capabilities since that time period.

        I honestly think that Martial Law and door to door confiscation is a myth, first real infraction by any fed inclined in that direction would spill blood and galvanise the nation.

        I think we need to concentrate our efforts on more likely events like preppin for hurricanes, economic bad times, natural disasters, possibly WWIII….not worry about fantasmicalizational events that are pretty preposterous considering actual reality!?

        Unless, you live on the East Coast or West Coast….but Texas and all up and down the middle of US, nah….lol

        And what in the hades is wrong with you Minnesotans? You-all are getting more pukey liberal everyday?

        Anyway, God Bless and let me know if you think I’m off base, I’m sure you will.

        Terry Reed aka “the fractionator” LOL

        • I hope DHS has nine mike and .308, because I can sure use that liber-, uh, FREE ammo!

        • So terry, did the Boston lockdown not actually happen or did I miss the galvanizing of the population?

      57. I am waiting for the day when a bodyguard from Mayor Bloomburg’s security detail or Massachusetts State Police ask for public donations for ammo or standard capacity magazines becuase nobody will sell it to them.

        • …you weren’t thinking of how the NVA and Viet Cong arms caches were seeded with special rounds, were you?

          • Oooooh, you remember that, eh? Nasty.

      58. So DHS is disarming the local police too? Ha ha ha ha ha

      59. Keep your ammo to yourselves. The piggs will only use it against the lawfull people anyway, most likely to demand other freebies from the public. Let the OATH violaters wallow ammoless in their pigg stations. Hell FIRE them NOW!! They would even turn your own ammo on you. Anybody who gives cops ammo at this point in time is an utter fool. Cops who do not up-hold and honor their OATH are treasonous traiters and should be given lead in only one way, prefired. Do you get me?

        • It would be funny if someone gave them a bunch of rounds with the powder removed.

      60. I asked myself if the chief would share with me if I was running low, he wouldn’t, and I won’t.

      61. All the BS comes down to control. Why doesn’t anyone research or report the real reason we have no ammo? The EPA regulates how many primers can be made per year due to lead emissions. This started way back under Bush senior and we are feeling the impact now. Yes demand has risen but if manufacturers are limited by government entities by what they can produce, they will never meet demand. By the way the pollution from other countries doesn’t blow over the us…

        • If you really believe the EPA gives a shit about our environment please explain MONSATIN. some people are only half awake & red flag issues fly right over their head. The EPA answers to Corporations & could give two shits about our health.

      62. Here’s 1 (one) cartridge, now keep in your shirt pocket, Barney…

      63. Aw, fewer bullets to kill us with! Gee, now that’s a shame!
        And, they really DON’T “serve and protect”. They get to the scene of a crime AFTER it happens, rarely do they intervene in a timely and helpful manner.

      64. Any ammo you provide, can and will be used against you

      65. This is just a guess but I bet we start seeing Muslim extremist group using .40’s soon.

      66. Two questions for a FOIA request…

        1.Where will the DHS be warehousing its stockpile?
        2.Will it be as secure as the munitions stockpile in Libya?

      67. The first rule about ammo stacking, as in fight club, is you never talk about ammo stacking. To tell the police you have ammo, is as dumb as telling them where you hide your cash, metals, guns, food, and anything else.
        Not a smart choice.

        The police, despite your hopeful thinking and illusionary thought, are NOT your friends!

      68. F*** you, piggy! Go learn to reload!

      69. Sorry, no ammo here.

      70. I pays to panic early.

      71. Why doesn’t homeland security release some of the billions of bullets they are hoarding?

        I thought this was government by and FOR the people? Shouldn’t they be benevolent? We are benevolent with our taxes aren’t we?

      72. Maybe the mouthbreathers should have bought a few pallets full of ammo , instead of drones , APC’s , camera systems and other uber cool high speed orwellian gear.
        Course having mostly double digit IQ’s sort of precludes any long term strategic planning .

        13 black nobility tyrants a few thousand miles away are not going to be a problem. The 150 roid ragin donut humper tyrants whose fiat paper has lost all purchasing power. With three days of food in the family pantry are way more of concern for most of us.

      73. I had the opportunity a year or two ago to stock up on 9mm and .40 caliber ammo. Both are used by my local sheriffs department and state police respectively. Wonder if that might been an error on my part; probably could’ve gotten some good prices.
        Naaaah, no way would I give ammo to the cops. You wanna shoot, buy your own damn ammo. Running out? Boo hoo. Less ammo for you to use on my family.
        I too used to much more pro LEO, but as the man once said, “The times, they is a changing.” Sorry, Mr LEO, but while I have had the opportunity to speak with some very personable and likeable men in your profession, I simply can not and will not trust you to do the right thing anymore when it comes to my rights.

      74. The police are all now under DHS so guess what? They have plenty of ammo. They’re a lyin to ya.

      75. I heard the police have been federalized and now under DHS (Homeland). Nuf said?
        They’re lyin to ya.

      76. Was this article written by Valley Girls? The use of phrases such as “I go”, “They go”, “The citizens were like” is indicative of a quality public education. Sarcasm intended.

        • Like, totally.

      77. Fuck em , let them get it from the feds ………OR …………..let the militias patrol their own neighborhoods .

      78. Off topic , but sort of relevant ……… was found to the horror of LEO’s that the Russian made Sapson brand ammunition will penetrate current modern body armor ( they were talking about the 9mm pistol rounds ) this is because of the bullets shape ( sharp point vs. rounded like other manufacturers ) and steel core . In countries like Russia , steel is cheaper to use and easier to get than other metals , so they tend to use it a lot , thats why the large number of steel cased ammo from them . ……………….just passing on information . what a person does with that information is up to the individual . Just sayin .

      79. US Constitution, Carrie Mienhart, and Fidel Castro’s Ghost, GO F#$% YOURSELVES!

      80. I don’t know how true this is, but I read online the other day that in I think it was Galveston tx. that their are containers full of ammo. such as wolf etc. the article also said it was being held in the shipyards, until further notice. if anyone has a way to find out for sure, I and a lot of others would like to know.

      81. No One will give the Gestapo any ammunition!


        How Hitler Banned Guns….and Obama and the UN are doing the same thing…

        1. Join the NRA and other pro gun groups.
        2. Buy American arms and ammo.
        3. Teach your kids and buy them their own guns and amm.
        4. Keep it all locked up and very secure.
        5. Plan your gun an ammo purchase for the next generations.
        6. Never comply with any gun laws that violate the 2nd.

        Final thought…
        Make sure you have simple guns they might never be able to ban.
        Ex. Double Barrel Shotgun. Better than not having anything.
        A bullet is a bullet flying out the barrel.

        Boycott all NWO companies that are destroying America.
        Buy American and insist on American products.

        I recommend every get an NRA coffee mug for work and put an NRA sticker on their car and homes.

      83. You people should be happy. After all, the police area tool of TPTB. If they have no ammo, they cannot inflict their tyranny on you. But, if police cannot get ammo, neither can anyone else. You people still don’t get it. This hysteria that has driven up the price of ammo and led to shortages profits no one but the gun and ammo industry and harms the average gun owner. You morons are doing more the interfere with the right to bare arms than the government ever could. But, you are too stupid to see it.

      84. The stockpiling of ammo by DHS has been discredited on so many levels, it just shows you idiots would rather live in your deluded fantasy world than the real world because you cannot function in the real world with intelligent human beings.

        • Joe, I’m about to drive through your state. I’ll be sure to stop and spit on your neck of the woods as I pass through.

      85. Wobig can buy all the 40 caliber he wants at Gunbroker.c or BulkAmmo.c, for between $525 and $800 per 1000 rounds: GoBombem, Biden and the deluded gun-grabbers have expanded the ammo (and gun) blackmarkets from the inner-city minorities, to include legal gun owners and ammo users nationwide.

        Plus CA and other states are proposing ammo taxes as well as licenses to sell and to buy: when these collective morons are done imposing their meaningless restrictions, ammo will remain fully available at $1-$3/rnd. on the newly criminalized, nationwide black market:

      86. Tanner gun show coming in Denver, June 1 and 2. I’ll be in line 1.5 hours early like last time.

      87. Dont worry about the ammo folks, if this shit goes down and we live long enough , there will be ammo to be taken from all the dead laying around, In all imiganiable caliber.

        but you should have gotten enough to at least fend until the dust clears

      88. BALTIMORE (CN) – Baltimore police beat up a woman and smashed her camera for filming them beating up a man, telling her: “You want to film something bitch? Film this!” the woman claims in court.
        Makia Smith sued the Baltimore Police Department, Police Commissioner Anthony Batts and police Officers Nathan Church, William Pilkerton, Jr., Nathan Ulmer and Kenneth Campbell in Federal Court.
        Smith claims she was stuck in stand-still rush hour traffic in northern Baltimore when she saw the defendant officers beating up and arresting a young man.
        She says pulled out her camera, stood on her car’s door sill and filmed the beating.
        “Officer Church saw plaintiff filming the beating and ran at her,” the complaint states. “He scared her and she sat back in her vehicle. As he ran at her, he yelled, ‘You want to film something bitch? Film this!’
        “Officer Church reached into plaintiff’s car and grabbed her telephone-camera out of her hand, threw it to the ground and destroyed it by smashing it with his foot.
        “Officer Church pulled plaintiff out of her car by her hair and beat her. Officers Pilkerton, Ulmer, and Campbell then ran to plaintiff’s car and joined Officer Church in beating plaintiff and arrested her using excessive force. At all times described herein, plaintiff’s two year old daughter witnessed her mother’s beating and arrest by the Officers, as did others.”
        Smith claims the cops taunted her and threatened to take her daughter away. She says they refused to call her mother to her toddler.
        “The officers, despite the pleas of plaintiff, refused to call plaintiff’s mother. Instead, the officers tormented plaintiff by telling her that her daughter would be taken from her and sent to Social Services. Seeing plaintiff’s distressful reaction to these tormenting threats, they continued,” the complaint states.
        Smith says claims she was arrested and taken to jail on bogus charges that she assaulted Church and resisted arrest.
        She claims Church failed to appear for her trial – twice, and prosecutors dropped the charges, but she had to hire a lawyer and spend more money recovering her impounded car.
        She claims Baltimore police have a history of illegally seizing and destroying recording devices.
        She seeks $1.5 million in compensatory and punitive damages for civil rights violations, conversion and infliction of emotional distress.
        She is represented by Christopher Lyon, with Astrachan Gunst Thomas.
        Police departments around the country have been accused of similar responses to citizens filming them abusing other people.

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