Confirmed: We’re Literally On the Brink of Catastrophic Collapse

by | Jan 6, 2011 | Headline News | 179 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    We’ve been told a lot of things since the global economic crisis first became apparent in 2007. In March of that year Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said, “the impact on the broader economy and financial markets of the problems in the sub-prime markets seems likely to be contained.” Clearly, Mr. Bernanke’s assessment was incorrect and the sub-prime real estate issues were only part of a broader, systemic issue.

    The fundamental problems within our economy became mainstream news in the latter part of 2008 when stock markets around the world were in free fall and most major financial institutions were on the cusp of insolvency. In response, our government, with the full support and confidence of Congress, took unprecedented steps to save the system by injecting, first billions, and then trillions of dollars to bailout failed companies, stabilize deflationary price collapses and stimulate the economy.

    Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson eventually wrote a book about the crisis, aptly titled On the Brink. But how close to the brink were we? If Representative Brad Sherman is to be believed, we were close. So close, in fact, that according to Sherman, Congressional members were told that if the bailout was not authorized by Congress the collapse would be so severe that martial law may have to be declared – basically, tanks in the streets. The following short video is Brad Sherman discussing the situation on the House floor:

    Are we now to believe that the actions taken by Congress, The President, US Treasury and The Federal Reserve have resolved the fundamental problems facing our nation?

    For those 17% of people who think the economy is in recovery and the other 33% who believe it will happen soon, we point you to the latest statement from current Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitherner, who outlines the severity of the problem in a January 6, 2011 letter to Congress writes:

    I am writing in response to your request for an estimate by the Treasury Department of when the statutory debt limit will be reached, and for a description of the consequences of default by the United States.

    Never in our history has Congress failed to increase the debt limit when necessary. Failure to raise the limit would precipitate a default by the United States. Default would effectively impose a significant and long-lasting tax on all Americans and all American businesses and could lead to the loss of millions of American jobs. Even a very short-term or limited default would have catastrophic economic consequences that would last for decades. Failure to increase the limit would be deeply irresponsible. For these reasons, I am requesting that Congress act to increase the limit early this year, well before the threat of default becomes imminent.

    Treasury would prefer not to have to engage again in any of these extraordinary measures [suspension of the issuance of certain types of government debt and government investment vehicles]. If we are forced to do so again, these measures could delay the date by which the limit is reached by several weeks. Once these steps have been taken, no remaining legal and prudent measures would be available to create additional headroom under the debt limit, and the United States would begin to default on its obligations.

    The Treasury Secretary of The United States of America just said that if we don’t get another $1 trillion or so dollars by March of this year then this country will begin to default on its debt obligations. These remarks are extremely serious and should be understood for what they are.

    We are, literally and without mixing words, on the brink of economic catastrophe.

    The scary thing is, according to Mr. Geithner and the many supporters of raising our debt ceiling, that borrowing more money is the only solution available.

    In a recent commentary we pointed out the opposing view from Karl Denninger of Market Ticker, who said that raising the debt ceiling would essentially lead to the very same consequence as leaving it as is:

    Let me be clear: If you extend the debt ceiling and by doing so allow deficits of this sort to continue for another year, say much less two, you will have placed a loaded shotgun in the mouth of this nation and pulled the trigger.

    It will go off, and you will splatter this nations’ economic and political system all over the wall.

    It’s a Catch 22 and there’s no way out.

    Defaulting on or inflating away our debt are the only viable solutions. Both of these will lead to the same end – a complete and total collapse of the way of life Americans have become used to.

    Just as Henry Paulson, President Bush, et. al. warned of economic collapse and depression in 2008, Mr. Geithner warns of the very same today. All of the trillions spent, all of the laws passed, and all of the manipulations of global asset markets, have done absolutely nothing to resolve the fundamental systemic problems we faced prior to the onset of the crisis.

    It is, quite literally, going to be the end of the world as we know it – and it cannot be stopped.

    It’s time for each individual to take steps to prepare for a national debt default and a complete debasement of the US dollar. It won’t be long before we either can’t meet our debt obligations or our creditors finally put a stop to our out of control borrowing. And when they do, the chances are high that we will experience a hyperinflationary monetary collapse, complete with disruptions to the normal flow of commerce, food shortages and out of control prices. The only refuge will be to understand what is money when the system collapses and start preparing now. The government is getting ready for it, so should you.

    More Recommended Reading:

    There’s an Economic Collapse Coming to This Country – Plan Now

    I Want People to Be Mentally Prepared For What’s Coming Our Way

    The First 12 Hours of a US Dollar Collapse *Video*


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      1. When you condense this situation down and screen out the B.S., what is the difference between Geithner “The Weasel” saying we need to raise the debt ceiling or there’ll be calamity OR someone deep in debt with insufficient income saying, “I have to raise the limit on my credit cards or I’m in deep sh*t. ”
        Ain’t no difference except the scale of the thing.
        The pain has to be felt in either case and the problems worked through, sooner is better than later.
        Putting it off for another day only makes it worse.

      2. I’m sitting back waiting for the rats (politicians) to start to abandon the ship by resigning.  Which ones are going to cry…  Is the FDIC Friday bank closure people going to take another vacation this weekend?  What would you do if you were the two that won the big lotto this week?  Buy all food? 

      3. “…what is the difference between Geithner “The Weasel” saying we need to raise the debt ceiling or there’ll be calamity OR someone deep in debt with insufficient income saying, “I have to raise the limit on my *credit cards or I’m in deep sh*t. ”…”

        *Credit cards that are all maxed out.

      4. And of course cutting spending is completely off the table. It would never even occur to them that maybe the government needs to scale back any.


        if the Govt chooses to raise the debt ceiling, it wont fly for another year anyway…the wheels are falling off the bus as we speak…look at all the whitehouse staff bailing and buying emergency essentials…

      6. Has anyone seen the commercial where a businessman and a businesswoman are riding an esculator and it comes to a grinding halt. They look around and do not see anyone. So they start hollaring “HELP….WE NEED HELP…. WE ARE STUCK ON AN ESCULATOR”,

        This is what the American people have become, so reliant on someone elses help that they can’t even climb off the esculator!!  

      7. Chuckles said,
        “And of course cutting spending is completely off the table. It would never even occur to them that maybe the government needs to scale back any.”
        That would be the response of most clear thinking folks–cut every bit of unnecessary spending FIRST. However, those in high positions in this administration (and all those who benefit from their power) know that they can keep the hordes away from their collective doorsteps IF they keep the lies and benefits flowing.
        Consider what would happen if all the freebies were cut off? (Actually this is already being done state by state as the financial vice gets screwed tighter)
        The reason you can see photos from the Great Depression of people in long soup lines, or long lines waiting for ANY kind of work is because they had none of our present plethora of government benefits, i.e. extended unemployment checks, “food stamps”, reduced or free rent, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc. etc…
        Not IF but WHEN these benefits/entitlements go under the axe step by step, the people will be rioting in the streets and those in places of power will be seeing them on THEIR front steps–figuratively and literally in some cases. That’s got to scare them.
        That, in my opinion is why they are doing everything to keep the masses pacified with ever increasing borrowing and printing of fiat money. Besides lining their own corrupt pockets–and their buddies/sponsors–they are hoping against hope that the economy will somehow start to improve.
        They are like an addicted gambler going in deeper and deeper in the red–hoping the family won’t find out that the savings, car, valuables, home and future are all on the casino’s table. The cards are not looking good for our nation.

      8. Yep,
        I knew it, you knew it and it really sucks! But take a look at Iceland.

      9. Yes, but were sending more precious Marines to Afghanistan.  We could be spending that money protecting our own borders & flying them to their home every weekend to produce more jobs.

        • Defaulting on or inflating away our debt are the only viable solutions. Both of these will lead to the same end – a complete and total collapse of the way of life Americans have become used to.

      10. Couldn’t they just go down the ESCULATOR?  Was it in DC or Northern CA?

      11. and here i thought the economy was going to be better 2011………….NOT!

      12. Comments…..By increasing the debt roof it will give the government the time to make spending cuts so we don’t go into default and start paying down the debt.

      13. gold will sky rocket tomorrow just on that comment…..china is already quit buying our debt because of fear we might default. moodys will also down grade our credit rating and our bonds wont be worth the paper they are printed on.

      14. “watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat”

      15. Comments…..yes we can, don’t you forget or give up on the change.

      16. They did the same dam thing with the Bailouts of the Banks ,that the sky would  fall and the consequences would take us back into the Dark age .Now we have Timothy G releasingt the letter today ,Telling that we will default and shutdown Government services, cut offf social security and unemployment , etc, etc,.  
        Congress no doubt, the spinless Congress we have will Raise it Debt Ceiling up because this will effect thier livelyhood . The old Fear Machine gets brought out of the closit again . We got to do  somethign because these Ass clowns are driveing us to collapse  slowly but surely !!!


      17. what would you guys do if you were just about to graduate high school? need advice…

      18. What are Marc Slavo’s politcal leanings and his claim to fame?..

      19. I am looking for gold and silver to fall for the next several months while the dollar rises. Many will sell their gold only to be hit with a dollar crash or formal devaluation by the government which will leave them unprotected when the crisis hits.

      20. Like the debt limit has never been raised before….. this is wildly exaggerated in its implications. The debt limit has been raised at least 5 times in my recent memory and to say that OMG we are going to default is just fear mongering. Do we have a problem? Yes. Is the sky falling? Only if you are Chicken Little.

      21. Web bots calling for something big – “Monumental” this year – and the next key days are Jan 7 & 11…

        Hope this ain’t the axe falling, but then again, the farther down the wrong road you go, the farther you have to travel back to get on the right track…

      22. Tina,

        The word is “escalator.”  An a, not a u.  That is what is the matter with the U.S. now.   We’re all semi-literate, not interested in education, and we think it doesn’t matter.  We don’t save, and the rest of the world is eating our lunch.  ADHD all around. 

      23. Comments…..michelle
        where are you reading this about web bots ?


      25. NWFisher – There is absolutely no difference. How you describe the individual case of someone maxing out their credit cards, and then needing more credit to continue spending and make payments on the existing debt is exactly what our government has done for decades. At some point, however, just like with Citibank cutting off a borrower, China et. al. will do the same with us.

        John, in response to your question on where I lean politically – I am currently without Party. If I had to describe myself, I guess I’d go with a Libertarian/Constitutionalist/Don’t Tread On Me  type.. Basically, I won’t bother you if you don’t bother me.
        The best way to describe my views with respect to the political spectrum would be this model:

        Randy, though the claims seem to be wildly exaggerated, it is our very own Treasury Secretary who says the effects of not raising the ceiling will be catastrophic. We must be in some serious trouble if this is the case. In 2008, we were told that the economy of, essentially, the entire planet would come to a standstill unless something was done. It is our government, the Chinese, Brazil, etc. – and all are saying the same thing – that unless THEY act we will have a collapse… I agree with them to the extent that we will have a major collapse – we are likely in the middle of it right now. In my view, based on the evidence available, this is going to happen and can’t be stopped at this point. The only question is how severe it is going to be. Are we talking deep recession? Are we talking 1930’s style depression or perhaps worse? Are we talking complete economic, political and social meltdown? It’s happened in the past to many a civilization — we’re not immune is all I am suggesting.

        Thanks for all the great comments folks.


      26. Do like one of my idiot friends.  Just get a new card.

      27. “Never in our history has Congress failed to increase the debt limit when necessary.”

        Translation: Never in our history has there been any such thing as a debt limit.

      28. Zac, I would join the Puddle Pirates or Air Force if you want training in a safe tech job to get your college & bennies.  But only after hard training in the ASVAB book.  Good luck!   The other Tom.

      29. Comments…..What makes us think that our empire will somehow avoid the eventual collapse similar to  all the other empires in past history ?

      30. “never let a crisis go to waste”….even if we are the ones that caused the crisis in the first place, then we can ride in on our white horses and shiny armor to save the day with 2000 page bills and a few flicks of the pen.

      31. @ Zack.  I am going to tell you the same thing I told my younger brother.  He is currently a freshman in college. 
        Going to college, you will rack up more debt which will never leave until paid in full.  Pursue some employment or technical trade now that will be useful when SHTF (EMT, Paramedic, gunsmithing, etc.)  Or, find an employer that has college tuition reimbursement and take your time going through school (i.e, w/o racking up a shit-ton of debt).  You could go to college on the military’s dime (i.e. taxpayers) by joining the ROTC program.  I’m not sure how that would pan out, but you could look into it.   
        I know this isn’t what most high school seniors want to hear, but it is what it is.   

      32. Here’s how I see it. Tell me if you agree. The last time such an urgent an apocalyptic call went out (ala Paulson), that money went straight into the hands of foreign banks, and various US-based companies, according to a recent Wiki-release. Something like 3.2 trillion. Wasted. Squandered. Misspent. Stolen. All to the desired effect of the Fed and Treasury.

        This brings us to an eerily similar tone once again. And once again, it is to divvy up the ongoing proceeds, and ‘credit limit increase’ to those they most cherish, which is the furthest thing from we the people.

        So my thoughts are, they know this ship is going down. It’s happening now. China and Russia have bailed on our currency, and Brazil is joining the club. Game over!

        But I THINK, they are looking to prolong the party just a little longer, hook up their cohorts with one last big score, and getting themselves into position for the anarchy they’ve always been expecting. It’s all about they’re timetable. They want to strip us of every last dollar before the final collapse, and have their eyes on the exit. Cutting them off from the debt ceiling increase likely shortens their timeframe.

        And to use fear to get what they want is the ol’ tried and true method. And I’m sure they’ll all take their monopoly money, and convert to hard assets before the sleeping masses realize they’ve been duped AGAIN!

        But that’s just me.

      33. A trillion here, a trillion there.  And they think the economy is getting better!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Rope-a-dope.  Don’t fall for it.  Gold/silver has intrinsic value, paper doesn’t.  I think I’m going to cry…….

        • The crash is being delayed. Unfortunately the more the government delays it, the bigger the crash is going to be. 2012 will go down in history as the year the world changed….for the worst.

      34. rick you sound like my son. having a public service mgt job i know you have been critisized  for trying to make cut backs , however right you are. keep trying . dad so I can’t spell  T S

      35. The crash is being delayed. Unfortunately the more the government delays it, the bigger the crash is going to be. 2012 will go down in history as the year the world changed….for the worst.

      36. There is still some time to buy PMs. Silver and gold are actually down right now, folks. Get some while you still can. Because when 1 ounce of silver costs $50 a piece, it won’t matter whether you pay $30 or $33 right now.

        Other than that – stock up on food, water, weaponry, ammunition, cold weather clothing, tools, and any other practical/useful tools or supplies. You will thank yourself you did. (especially food and water).

      37. In summary:

        “In order to prevent an economic calamity in the short term the government must be allowed to continue doing what is almost certainly leading to (an even worse) economic calamity in the longer term.”

        There’s coming a time when they just won’t be able to kick this can any further down the road…

      38. REPLY TO ZACK,
        You said, “what would you guys do if you were just about to graduate high school? need advice…”

        Hi Zack,
        I agree with the other two replies. First thing, don’t be afraid of the future! I’ve been through a war and my wife has been a refugee and in prison camps. We’re both alive and well–which goes to show you that people survive and thrive even through tough times.
        Foster a “can do” attitude, don’t whine and learn to do what you have to do. Try your best to attach yourself to some older folks that you respect (mentors). Learn from them–but pick them wisely. Look at what’s around them to see if they are the real deal. Ask for advice from those who have the experience and wisdom to give good advice.
        The military might be a good move for you, then again it might not be a fit–it’s not for everyone. Check out the options and talk with some active duty folks when you get the chance.
        Ditto that comment about not racking up debt for a university degree. We are seeing a lot of people, not just in the U.S. but in Asia and Europe, who are regretting the huge investment (time and money) they made. Even with advanced degrees there is no guarantee of a job in this economic environment.
        The things that they don’t teach at a university, like strong character, honesty, personal responsibility, hard work to achieve rewards, loyalty to one’s employer, friends and family; perseverence in the face of adversity, etc.– ALL those things you can pick up from good parents, mentors and folks who have already learned those traits. Those things are priceless and beat the hell out of gold and silver (not saying the latter is a bad idea, just that the former is precious, hardwon and no one can steal it). You get that foundation and you will do well and you won’t be afraid of the future.

      39. Comments….This reminds me of a time in the 80’s, when the lights/electricity went out in New York City for 3 days.  Looting was rampet as stores/homes were broken into. 

        I believe Marshal Law was put in place and citizens were given a curfew. 

        Look at the lights/electricity as the present US economy and the looters as our politicians and their backers.

        When you know that the sh#@ is going to hit the fan, you grab all you can for survival and get the he$$ out of there.

        The next few months are going to be fast and furious.  If you are not prepared, you will be hung out to dry.  There will be no help from the government.  Your neighbors wont be able to help, because they are in the same condition as you are.

        You will have to join with families/friends to work together as groups to survive what is coming to America.

        Good luck.

      40. This is the same sh*t just wrapped in a different package.  I gotta say, I’m getting tired of reading the same thing over and over and over.  I need a break from all of this.  I’m as ready as I’ll ever be.  Good luck folks.  Bye!

      41. The Timmy has 8,000 tonnes of gold he could sell. At today’s prices that’s well over $300 billion dollars.  If gold is such a relict sell the darn stuff 😉

      42. Comments….. Bill

        This is the same sh*t just wrapped in a different package.  I gotta say, I’m getting tired of reading the same thing over and over and over.  I need a break from all of this.  I’m as ready as I’ll ever be.  Good luck folks.  Bye!

        Bye Bill (as I’m waving my hand in the air). I never get tired of the doom and gloom, and when I do, I just don’t announce that I’m tired of it.  I just ride away into the sunset without any drama.  Keep your powder dry as they say.  Hope you come back for seconds!

        Our elected officials will pontificate on cutting the deficit and eliminating the disasterous outcome of not lifting the debt ceiling.   But behind the scenes they’re already cutting a compromise so both sides can satisfy their supporters just like they did by extending the tax cuts and unemployment benefits.   At the same time they’re also cutting a backroom deal with China to not dump their treasury holdings and let the yuan float  if we sell them a portion of our gold reserves in an unannounced deal.    

        The economy will hold together over the course of the year while people remain distracted by facebook and the status of  Linsay Lohan’s rehab.  

        2012 will be even more interesting as increasing bond yields will cause the debt service to skyrocket  and wipe out the pitiful effects of any austerity program Washington might implement.       

        God help us all.   

      44. thanks everyone for your advice! my gameplan is getting a degree in agriculture, courtesy of the army rotc program but i doubt the progran will exist in a few years, it will be axed. Everyone seems to know what there talking about on this website, I will be checking this site out daily!

      45. but as far as joining the military goes, Id rather be out there with you all trying to re-establish a sound government, not protect a corrupt one.  catch 22

      46. That’s right, what Mona said.

        Prep hard and prep well folks. If by any chance the crap never hits the fan, you can eat all the food you’ve stored over time. You can always keep ammunition and use it at the range. Medical supplies, medicine, first aid, batteries, toilet paper, boots, winter weather gear… this can all be utilized.

        But if the crap does hit the fan, at least you will be ready.

        God bless you all and God bless the United States of America.

      47. I am Federal LE, I am prepping and so should all of you. I will cash out before I arrest anybody in the streets for being tired, hungry and pissed off at the system that caused this!

      48. @NWFisher: WOW! Best advice I’ve seen in many a year! I plan to copy it (if you don’t mind) and give to my 3 teenage grandsons who live with me. You ought to speak to high schools around the country. If more people, of all ages, operated as you advise, we could get this country back on track for sure!!

      49. @VRF

        “Watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat!”

        You cracked me up!

        Basically, this is just another guy telling us that if they don’t raise the debt ceiling they’ll have to downsize government! LMAO!!! Less government = More freedom. We can’t have that, can we?

        They’re hoping to get a few more steps out of the old mare before she’s bled dry and falls over. A few more steps and we’re down.

        Timmy Weasel is just pissed because the shoe is on the other foot and they are going to DEMAND the repeal of 0bamaCare, the ScrewThePeoplesHealthCare law be repealed. They’re going to attach it to the debt ceiling and our president will be nailed to the wall. He’ll have to sign it or we’re screwed (at least as far as they think of it) so, he’ll sign it. The only think I would short more than the banking cesspool would be an ETF based on the enforcement of 0bammyCare.

        What is it that they say? Oh, I remember! I think it was: “PAYBACK IS A BITCH, SHE’S PISSED, SHE’S GOT A BIG KNIFE AND SHE’S LOOKING FOR YOU!” …or something like that.

        It is truly going to be VERY entertaining to watch. I was very irritated while they bailed and bailed and bialed. Then, they screwed over our healthcare and they tried to help the illegal aliens become illegal citizens. Now, as the crooks in DC get to watch it all melt away, I’m a just going to laugh and laugh and laugh. Did they think they could ignore us forever? Morons.

      50. zack asked, “what would you guys do if you were just about to graduate high school?”

        This sounds pretty good:

        “I am working with a young man who turned 18 in December. You know what he got for his birthday? A B.A. degree from an accredited college.

        His parents paid for tuition: under $15,000. The college awarded him his degree for work performed. He did the whole thing at home.

        Is this a better way to go to college? You bet it is.”

        Go read the rest and tell other people about it if you think it sounds good too:

        After reading this next one you might not ever consider the military route:

        An Iraq War Veteran’s Quest for the True Meaning of Liberty and Patriotism

      51. Another heart-warming article.  I just love to hear about the debt load we are carrying.  Because then I remember, the fed doesn’t have to print new money if it doesn’t want.  It is private and can do whatever it wants right now.  What would happen if they just didn’t buy any more of our debt?  Said, too bad.  Taxpayers or foreigners can buy it. 
        The sad thing is they already created all the money supply needed to cause the hyperinflation we expect.  It should begin when the velocity of money picks up (velocity is at its lowest level in 50 years).  When all the money sitting in the bank’s reserves start to move.  Right now WE are paying banks interest to keep it in reserve.  Apparently, we gave the fed new powers in the banking “crisis”.  We even issued more debt so that the fed could have the proceeds to loan money to AIG in exchange for ownership.  Amazing!  So the fed got our loan money plus gets AIG stock, and gets repaid the AIG loan?! 

        Here’s my source.  Tell me if that is an incorrect understanding.

        It’s no wonder.

      52. Comments…..I have been reading “collapse” for many years. I have been hearing about and talking about “collapse” for even MORE years.
        This month, next month….WHATEVER. If you don’t all ready live a basic “rural” lifestyle, things could get tough for you and yours. COULD is the operative word here…
        I learned long ago that the powers that be come and go…..some do good, most just line their pockets and leave the detritus for the next to clean up. They figured out the correct (albeit misguided) path to take to win power over others and pilfered all they cold get their greedy little hands on. Smart? I suppose so, if you crave power and money. Evil? By some estimates, yes…if you choose to be controlled by them.
        I chose NOT. I come and go at my pleasure. Follow the constraints of “polite” society, and mind my own flippin’ business. I share in Christian ways and do my share for my fellow man through those channels. Sometimes the BADGUYS win….sometimes I do.
        Does any of this economic turmoil matter to me and mine? Of course it effects us, but we will adapt, and with Gods’ help and guidance (AND some common sense applied) we’ll muddle through.
        Zombies, golden hoard, mutant zombie bikers, Chinese paratroopers, green aliens or whatever…..we’ll just keep on keepin’ on.
        BASICALLY….whoo gives a shit what the .gov Geithner says…I mean really….

      53. @ ornery

        Well, mushroom’s not here to say it so I will do the honors.  We should care what Geithner says because, “he is one of the enlitened harvard graduates making sure we can get a supply of uncirculated crisp $10 bills to stash in a tuna can.”

        I’m just joking, by the way.

      54. Reply to ZACK,
        You said, “but as far as joining the military goes, Id rather be out there with you all trying to re-establish a sound government, not protect a corrupt one.  catch 22”

        First of all, a degree in Agriculture might be the good exception going into the future. I like it!
        Now, concerning the military. Some folks are quick to think that they will turn into the modern equivalent of Nazi SS troops if some bad leaders just give the order. I don’t think so. In fact, the bulk of the military side with our constitution and America’s people. We have a long history of kicking ass that needs to be kicked and saving & protecting people that need to a helping hand. Our military is not perfect–just made up of a cross section of Americans. BUT if the stuff does hit the fan, I believe most military folks (also the majority of LEO’s) will be there to protect and defend our nation and our people. Most of them know what traitors and tyrants look like. Everyone in the military takes an oath to protect and defend our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. The more good folks in the military, the better it is for America. Of course, we’re going to need all the good farmers we can get too!

      55. ORNERY,
        Yep, what you said.
        Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and get on with the best life you can live.

      56. One thing I’m starting to condsider could be a real problem if /when things colapse is what will happen with property taxes. Doesn’t matter if you’ve paid off your mortgage, you’re really just leasing your property from the state.  A collapse would mean lower sales tax revenues and lower state income taxe revenues (if applicable). The feds probably won’t be in a position to bail out the states so property taxes are thier only viable option for any sizeable income. To make matters worse, banks have already been purchasing tax liens, at a discount, from states and local governments. Property tax liens and even unpaid utility bills ( that can become a lien against your property in certian states) are now traded in online auctions- available to any investor in the world. When massive property tax defaults occur, the states and local governments will gladly sell off tax liens for pennies on the dollar to those who have any monetary wealth left – banks, China, OPEC (imagine Osama bin Laden has some cash left to invest).   So even if you own your home dept free, you could still loose it to the same bank you previously had your mortage with  if you can’t keep up with the property taxes. I’ve heard a few of you here talk about paying off your debts, but will that really save you in the end? There’s a real possiblity one of the consiquences will be the end of private property ownership as we know it. Hope FEMA is stocking up on tents.

      57. Comments….. our goverment contunied spending and growing the goverment without producing any jobs, plus the reason companies are leaving the us is because we not have the highest business tax in the world, its not the payroll thats the problem, its the high taxes on producing goods in the un ited states. I feel sorry for all the people on social security and gov aid, its all going to be gone, very soon.

      58. Sorry to disappoint all of you. No collapse. No hyper-inflation. Inflation by a thousand cuts for economic parity between nations. Higher debt ceiling (we go through this all the time).

        China’s President will be in the United States soon to re-affirm the New World Order and buy US treasuries.

        SHTF Times: “Gecko Greed” is an interesting commentary and different perspective on the national debt. Every American needs to read it. Your freedom is at stake.

      59. If you are at this site…you are enlightened.  Those who laugh at all us preppers will be knocking on the door for a humanitaian food pack.  I’ve been tunining my thinking and getting ready for about two years.  bring it on!  I’m ready.  If the shit goes down…China and Russia better not get cocky…  anyone falling from a parachute in my backyard will get blasted!  For the extreme..say a depopulation …when the elite come up from the bunkers…we’ll just eat them!  ha.


      61. Comments…..The Ddow has been manipulated for years now look at what the manipulators have done in concert with their main puppet/muppet on this date 1/6/11.

        #1611 the trade day following the 7197 low of year 2002 was #1611 when the low of 6470 was hit on the date 3/6/9
        1611 points 5 less than the 1616 low of 1987
        -1611 the Dow’s drop from the high on Sept.7,2001 of 9673 to the 8062 low on Sept.21,2001.

        Now the Dow dropped in 2002 from 10673 to 7197 exactly double the 1738 low close of 1987.

        Then the Dow dropped 1753 points in 10 ten trade days in 2001 from 10859 to 9106. 11722 the 2000 high close to 9106 was -2616 points one thousand more than the 1616 Dow low of 1987.

        In late 2000 the last drop in pattern was 11401 to 9654 = -1747 points, 9 more than the 1738 low close of ’87.

        The most important pattern low after the ’87 lows was the 1991 Dow low of 2832 close 2863 on Dec.11.

        Today the Dow closed at 11697 yesterday 11722. 11722 was the record high close back in year 2000. 10697.5 is the mid point of the 7197 low and the record high of 14198.

        11736 the high of today less 2872, 9 more than the 2863 low close of ’91 = 8864
        as -1747  in 2000 was 9 more than 1738
        11742 yesterday’s high less 2878 equals 8864 2878 is 15 more than the 2863 low close as 1753 in 10 days in ’01 to 9106 was 15 more than the 1738 low close of ’87.

        It is hard to follow but believe me the Ddow is going to hit 8864 in the likes 10 trade days or 30 trade days as it dropped in ’00 and ’01 in 30 and 10.

        I think it is 30 and then it will 200 trade days after the FLASH CRASH DAY when the Dow high was 10879 low was 9877 and the close 10520.

      62. Durango Kidd said, “No collapse… economic parity between nations”

        Isn’t that a contradiction?

        parity – 1: the quality or state of being equal or equivalent

        If the U.S. achives economic parity with nations such as Cuba, wouldn’t that mean the U.S. has suffered an economic collapse?

        Many economist say there are only two routes the U.S. can take, default or inflate.

        If the route is to inflate, where does it lead, how does it end if not hyper-inflation?

        If the Power Elite cause Americans to, “replace their liberty from Nature’s God, with the New World Order Currency… by wiping away and eliminating ALL American debt” that is a default, a.k.a. economic collapse.

        Default or inflate.

        And inflatin’ leads to hyper-inflatin’, or at least it always has in the past. Every fiat monetary system collapses, there’s never been an exception in all of history.

      63. Comments…..Can I get health insurance if I go to mexico and become a citizen and then come to america illigally?

      64. Clark: No contradiction. The attempt to achieve economic parity between nations is the goal of the NWO/OWG and is being played out in the currency markets.

        War is bad for business if your banks, customers, and borrowers are destoyed by thermonuclear warheads, which is where we would probably be by now if the PTB had not transfered American wealth to China and made fascists out of communists.

        Inflation by a thousand cuts is a gradual but serious inflation of double digits year after year. That is what is coming. It is happening now. It will continue. Double digit inflation is not hyper inflation by your own cut and paste definition yesterday. Did you forget so soon?

        Cuba is not relevent. Indonesia, Mexico, Turkey, Nigeria are relevent and the next target countries for the Bankster Gangster NWO.

      65. Oh great!  The jobs report is due out again today.  Lies, damn lies.  Ride the wave.  Let’s all retrain.  Another brick in the wall.  Does a speculator or investor buy stock in Face Book?  Which would you rather get sic on, a plate of Euro or US Bonds?

      66. Grannyb,
        Thanks for the kind words. I didn’t say anything that hasn’t been known for thousands of years. Application is the problem.
        Good luck with the 3 grandsons. I know I was a real knucklehead with a major “hearing” problem at that age!
        Love them, take good care of them and set a good example. When  they get older what you’ve planted should grow.

      67. Will miss you Bill.  Good luck.  A few of us here wish that Golden Fox would go away. 

      68. I’ve really gotten a kick out of listening to this debate on TV, etc. over the past few days.

        Few people seem to “get” what Mac is saying here – increasing the debt ceiling or not, either way is for all intents and purposes defaulting.  The only difference is between the two is WHEN we stop kicking the can down the road and take the medicine that has been coming to us for a long, long time.

        What even fewer people, including Glenn Beck, seem to realize is that the farther we kick the can down the road, the worse the medicine is going to taste when the time comes.

        As I, and many others, have been saying for quite a while, at SOME point, we WILL live within our means.  We either do it ourselves, or have the market force it upon us…which will be much more unpleasant…and may be the event that actually does cause the S to finally HTF.

        It’s coming.  It’s just a matter of time.

      69. This Is A Big Deal, here’s a different take from Forbes for those who think QE sits in the banks locked up tight:

        “So what money supply measure are we tracking?  It’s a metric called TMS, for True Money Supply, a formulation based on the monetary insights of the Austrian School of economics.  Those mainstream M’s – like M1, M2 and M3 – although widely followed, we submit, are all seriously flawed, for their formulations are founded on a faulty definition of money.  Not so TMS.  We’re convinced the Austrians have it right.

        Bernanke we surmise is not tracking TMS.  We doubt he even knows what it is.  No, Bernanke we think is tracking those mainstream M’s and in so doing hasn’t got a clue as to the whereabouts of the money supply…

        Those mainstreams M’s are telling him the money supply is stagnant…

        The reality is the money supply is anything but stagnant and because of Bernanke’s actions is set to go higher still…

        Bernanke’s broad M2 metric is growing at a year over year rate of about 3%.  TMS, it’s growing at a rate of about 10%.  To Bernanke that means the money supply is still not growing quickly.  To the Austrians though it most certainly is, over three times faster than Bernanke’s M2…”

      70. Comments….. Governments the world over collect taxes from the productive workers, manual or return on capital. Line teir pockets. Have one qualification, and that is the gift of the gap to pull the wool over our eyes. Are seldom comptent to hold down the positions they head. Do not give a fair return to tax payers that fund the services, so it is little wonder they are failing the world over. My generation the baby boomers have allowed this position to evolve. I just hope the next younger generation will find ways to clip their wings. We failed!  The West has foisted the idea of one man one vote on Africa. We see time and time again corruption in the voting system to entrench the NEW government into a position of enriching themselves. Unfortunately most changes only come out of revolution, with all the other cosequences that are bred in revolution. America you have lots to answer for. The only way your Polititicians will move forward is by devaluig your dollar, and in that renege on the debt you have with other countries as you pay off the debt with cheaper and cheaper dollars as you cut the cake into more and more slices. STINGRAY

      71. Tina,
        The word is “escalator.”  An a, not a u.  That is what is the matter with the U.S. now.   We’re all semi-literate, not interested in education, and we think it doesn’t matter.  We don’t save, and the rest of the world is eating our lunch.  ADHD all around. 

        Kiss my ASS (and yes that is with 2 s’)

      72. @NetRanger

        Glad someone got my comedy in this situation…;-)

      73. @NetRanger

        Glad someone got my comedy in this situation…;-)

      74. I’m extremely worried because my take home pay doesn’t afford me the opportunity to “stock up” on anything to any degree and this causes me many sleepless nights.   How can a single mom who also cares for elderly parents and disabled brother start to prepare for higher prices that are predicted? 

      75. I don’t blame you Tina.  Anybody that wants to be that critical on spelling should go to another site.  The other Tom.

      76. The gammar, and spelling police on the internet lately is such a PITA..some of us dont rely on spell check, some of us shoot from the hip, some of us are not 100 word a min. typers..and some of you need to get a dam life, you know who you are.

        and i think these analists are all fishing…like i said before…watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat.
        they are clueless and part of the problem, definetly not part of any solution.
        Gov. needs to be cut back way more then 50%..and the ones remaining need to have a 40% pay cut..and these life long benifits thats a joke too.
        live like your counter parts out in the real world, that way they dont lose track of what its really like for the common man

      77. Durango Kidd has it right.  And no, the federal debt and personal debt are in NO way the same (not that the gov’t can’t f*[K us over another way).

        I know everyone here likes to preach to the choir and pretend that edumacation don’t matter nun, but it does.  Imagine if someone started posting on here ranting about a flat earth.  You’d think they were completely stoopid because you DO have that knowledge.  It looks the same way when you rant on about this.

      78. Zac,
        Saw your post and the replies left for you. Someone mentioned Gunsmithing. I went to the Colorado School of Trades yesterday to look at the gunsmithing course. Cost:$22,061.00 and 14 months, 8 hours a day, Mon.-Thur.
        From what I understand from some of my hunting friends, it is the best school in the U.S. Even if you are not really interested in becoming a gunsmith, the machineing course will be invaluable, as skilled machinests are still in demand.
        Good luck with what ever path you decide to travel.
        Oh, the web site is

      79. Well said VRF.  I see the jobs report is out and the charts are going up.  Hurray, we are saved!  Good thing many up in DC have a smidgeon of knowledge.  Lawyers, bankers & cupcakes.  Ink, Ink, Ink.  Corp grind.
        @Anon   Don’t go to Mexico & come back, you will confuse the system!
        Economics 301 for those that want to learn the truth.


        I may be repeating this story…here goes..

        Hal Lindsey, a retired chaplain for the pipelines, related a story to Alex Jones that Janet Nappytonto in Az. told her friend, a latino activist, to store water and food for at least 6 months..
        That was in November…I’m listening…..are you???

      81. Zac,  pick your Dept of military & you will choose your fate.  Think about that. 

      82. VRF.  You had 12 mis-spealed words.  Your funney.

      83. Great posts and ideas. I read the posts to learn how my neighbors really feel. I cant discuss the frustrations I feel out loud because I fear Janet NapoleonIte will arrest me. I’ve read some books out there but I suggest this blog every time I can.  Great post today… .  And read Mac every day…click on his sponsors!

      84. They are draining the swamp to find some more unclean morons.  We are caught in the eye of the storm.  The economy is getting better, trust me.

        January 6th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
        The Timmy has 8,000 tonnes of gold he could sell. At today’s prices that’s well over $300 billion dollars.  If gold is such a relict sell the darn stuff

        Hey, Bob, don’t believe everything you hear or read…only trust what you see and only half of that….my mom always said!!

      86. Comments….. Anonymous coward said:

        Will miss you Bill.  Good luck.  A few of us here wish that Golden Fox would go away.

        Wish on coward, I’m not going anywhere. Unlike you, I don’t have to hide behind an “anonymous” to say whatever I wish to say.  Have a nice day now.


        January 7th, 2011 at 8:24 am

        Haven’t the state, federal, and local employees in a sense shot themselves in the foot??
        Great benefits, 50% more salaries than private jobs pay, pensions out the ying-yang….that added to the states’ deficits and all those perks, pensions, nice salaries about to be pulled when their state announces….WE ARE BANKRUPT!! 

        And, add the union bosses and union employees to this scenario, too.

      88. @JJ..yep completely agree..
        cant wait until the pink slips come out for them, so they can see what its like for us out here in the private sectors.

        and take it all the way to the senate and house..hell lay off the Prez!..and cut his Bennies too….hahahaha

      89. Durango Kidd said, “Inflation by a thousand cuts is a gradual but serious inflation of double digits year after year.”

        And the question was, what then?
        Inflation to infinity?
        In your view, how does the inflation process end? Total annihilation of creditor nations from War and only war? Is that the only thing you see as changing your inflation, year after year scenario?
        And until that time, inflation is a completely gradual and controllable action?

        It seems as if you think the U.S. fiat Dollar will escape the fate of every other fiat currency of the past, while at the same time a NWO fiat currency will step in to save the day? If that were to happen, then the U.S. would be defaulting.

        Durango Kidd said, “Cuba is not relevent. Indonesia, Mexico, Turkey, Nigeria are relevent and the next target countries for the Bankster Gangster NWO.”

        So you’re saying economic parity is Only being applied to those nations and not the U.S., Cuba, or China?

        I haven’t forgotten anything, just trying to understand your position.

      90. My daughter, currently unemployed and actively seeking work and not on unemployment. She phoned yesterday to inform me that she signed up for 12 -month Veterinary Technician program in Phoenix.  $30k.  cough cough   I phoned her to let her know her jeep’s not getting repoed, as the bill 3 months late was paid by ms. santa claus and ms santa claus is retiring soon.    Sorry, thought this forum could use some dumb humor ;P

      91. @Farmers Daughter
        Wow $30K! for only 12 months?
        My daughter has had her eye on Veterinary sudies for over 7 years..(she still needs to complete grade school but getting close to the final grade)
        The cost is getting rediculous, theres no way her Mom and I could ever afford to give this education to her, and theres no way i will ever let her take on a debt like that.( she wants to go the entire route, full on Vet..i hear thats like 8 years of study?)
        We do have a plan but im not going to bring it up here. were not even sure its feesable. 
        My point is, our future generations cant even afford a professional education to hopefully benifit them in further life..and a High School education wont get them anything with real pay, or a future.

      92. @BillJ …

        On a thread bursting with excellent comments yours rang my chimes the loudest.

        Until recently, most of my income has been from muni bond interest … federal tax free. NO federal income tax after charitable deductions and carried forward capital losses. As Jackie Gleason was wont to observe, “How sweet it is.” Err, was.

        My annual ransom to local government for ten years has been larger than federal and state income taxes combined.

        The bulk of that goes to the school system, and to paying other local gubmint salaries. Something has to give.

        I would love to organize a strictly local property tax payers’ revolt. But the same crowd that thinks everything is fine because the talking heads on CNN say so would be appalled if any of those local services went away.

        Ifn I had the power, first I’d close the indoctrination centers. The public schools. The soon-to-be-homeless will need shelters. I think we can do without the police. A militarized force that serves a mighty revenue raising function.  “Oh, but what if there’s a prowler in yer home at 3 a.m.?”  I’ve been prepping for that for years. The prowler will be calling the cops to protect him from me.

        And don’t get me started on public libraries. Only about 15 % of the population uses them. They’re book-buying services for the literature reading upper classes who don’t want to pay for that particular pleasure.

        The local service I would happily support, by individual subscription, is Fire and Rescue.  Volunteer fire departments have a long and honorable history. But does Gomer from the gas station have the same qualifications as that Advanced Life Support paramedic who was a medic in combat? Does Richard in the hardware store know the fire suppressing technology that somebody who has made a career of it knows? And all that life-saving gear is expensive. So if I did hafta pay a local tax for anything Fire and Rescue has my vote.

        @Zack.  In brief, college wastes yer time and money. If it’s an educated mind you want read The Great Books series. From Aristotle to Freud. You will become more educated, in the word’s classic sense, than 99 % of the population.

        As fer college as vocational prep, entering the workforce at a higher level, you might want to look at Charles Hugh Smith’s “The End of (Paying) Work on his blog oftwominds.

        Learn skills such as EMT, gunsmithing, build it or fix it (without electricity if need be), microfarming or become a proficient minstrel. The corporate wage slave model of satisfying human wants will be around awhile. But the worse times become the more irrelevant it will be. You want skills, not a philosophy degree.

        Ag degree? Are you gonna farm yourself–using what for capital, land, seed and machinery–or do you hope to become a junior exec with Monsanto?

        Yer security lies in having skills not having pieces of paper hanging on yer wall.

      93. @VRF.  I was so shell shocked yesterday when she called, that I failed to question her further.  I used to work for private tech school there, A&P mechanics, was the registrar, and 20 yrs ago, the cost for a 9 month program was about 20k, so, education has increased exponentially in the last several years.  I have also read the student loan bubble is about to pop.  Your daughter has a long way to go and hopefully by the time she gets there, we will all have our country back on track!  Go US! 

      94. @VRF.  I also worked in banking and had clients that were a couple.   They are both doctors and late on loan.  Their student loans combined were half a million.

      95. Comments…..Zack,  recognize that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin [impregnated by the Holy Spirit] He lived a sinless life, died on the cross for remission of  sin, was raised from the dead, ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father and will return soon to judge the living and the dead. Repent of your sins. You must be born again or you cannot inherit the kingdom of God

      96. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitherner

        Hey bubba, you might learn something if you watched the Dr Phil show. “If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got.” Obviously what you been doing ain’t working. Wasn’t it Einstein that said something to the effect, “The definition of idiot is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result.”
        No.  Sarah Palin did  NOT raise oil taxes. That falls to the legislature. I live in Alaska and I watch the news. Palin is a quitter. She’s a fraud. And yes, I voted for her as governor. I don’t need to be kicked in the cojones repeatedly to learn.

        Keep in mind, Alaskan politics aren’t any better than Texas or Louisiana politics. Just look at the Murkowski v Miller mess. Murky loses the republican primary,  gets the democratic superPAC of NEA-Ak and the  native corporations to get her elected. Still claims she is a republican.  She and Begich (D-Ak)will vote to raise the credit limit.

        If the readiness issue keeps you awake at night, you are spending far too much time worrying and not enough time living. Unmanaged stress kills. The easiest way to reduce stress is by having fun.

      97. As an international observer, I’m staggered by the economic arrogance of the US . To believe for a second that the US will not get its economic come-uppance in the very near future is naive in the extreme – particularly when a lot of foreign societies would LOVE to see the US in trouble for idealogical reasons.
        The first step is stop the need need for credit: stop ALL non essential services that don’t generate economic activity or support people /society.
        Second is to raise your taxes to decrease your debt. The fact that your society has this infantile mantra about low taxes is a large part of your problem – therefore the position you are in is of your own making. You must start to live within your means. If having a wide range of services and activities can’t be afforded, then stop doing them, or pay for them through higher taxes – and not borrowings – it’s absolutely suicidal what you are currently doing.
        Higher taxes wasted on stupid expenditure is just plain stupid. But higher taxes spent on better schools, hospitals, economic incentives, etc makes sense. But because you refuse to increase taxes to pay for your own spending, the only option is to borrow.
        And your psychotic rate of spending has achieved for you what you had hoped your military might help you avoid – making you totally vulnerable to the society you are borrowing from, namely the Chinese.
        Good luck guys – you’re going to need it.

      98. Do you hunt up there in bush land OTE?

      99. If Karl Denninger is close to being correct, things should come to a head likely this year.  Personally, I’m ready to see whatever is going to happen, happen. 
        I personally doubt things will go where Karl says they’re going, although he’s bound to be correct in some of his ideas.  Guess we’ll find out who to believe if nothing else. 
        I’m reasonably ready on most fronts but will be caught lacking in some of the prep ideas.   Likely, most others will also.  Enough said. 

      100. These wankers want to play the “Paulson Card” indefinitely.  Any time they want something A LOT, they simply state “the world will end if you do not give me what I demand”… with a hinted “and we’ll make sure it ends if you do not comply”.

        Without any doubt whatsoever, the best possible outcome will occur if the federal government of the USSA simply terminates itself.  And I mean entirely - shut down completely and go away.  They have been a fraud almost since they were formed, and especially since December 1913 when they created the unconstitutional FederalReserve and unconstitutional IRS and income-tax.

        Shut down the feds — both of them.  Within one year, people will be absolutely shocked how wonderful life has become.

      101. If you get rid of the illegal aliens that shouldn’t even be here you will create 10 million jobs for americans.  HELLO, ANYONE HOME!  I dont’ think the corrupt scumbags  in our government want to solve anything.  They are just trying to get a better grip on the carpet they are getting ready to yank out from under us. 

      102. @JJJ our International Observer. 

        Thanks for your contribution, JJJ.  You are welcome at this site where the non-naive American preppers gather.  We know darn well this is coming to an end abruptly and painfully. 

        You suggested raising taxes to pay off the debt.  Our politicians don’t like to raise taxes — too unpopular, especially when we see it get wasted.  Instead, they get more paper bills printed up, deflate the currency.  Then when your government needs to buy oil, it has to pay in US dollars…so it buys US dollars, which are deflated.  So really, you are helping pay for our luxurious spending habits. 

      103. Clark:  US debt moves in cycles. As a function of GDP it has actually been higher historically than it is right now (WWII). So in and of itself, the national debt is not a problem either. Our problem today is that the American means of production has been transferred offshore, thus our ability to repay is jeopardized; but it’s not like the US is a consumer who has lost his or her job without the ability to repay. As growth resumes our production capacity will expand again, and with it an expansion of our ability to repay, but at a much lower rate than if we had not transferred 42,000 factories offshore.
        Actually, the ideal is about 2-3% inflation every year to infinity. And in normal times that is the goal the FED shoots for. Unfortunately, the bankster gangster lobbyists were able to persuade Congress to repeal Glass-Stegall which allowed them to gamble with deposits by merging investment and commercial banks which were previously separate “species”.
        Economic parity is the process Nixon Kissinger initiated and was formalized under George Bush Sr. The intent was to spread American wealth and avoid thermonuclear war.  The US literally agreed to educate the Chinese Communist kids as capitalists, and then transfer a portion of our wealth to them to make them all millionaires: which we did.
        The globalists and unfettered capitalists salivated at the prospect of 1.3 billion consumers and the potential for investment and exploitation of cheap, really cheap, labor.
        In a thermonuclear world, the profit motive has been largely removed from world wars. However the profit motive is alive and well in police actions, against wmd’s, and against terrorists.
        I have given you all of the free education I intend too. I usually charge a fee for my consulting work. If you do not know why Cuba is NOT relevant and why Mexico, Indonesia, Turkey, and Nigeria ARE relevant then you need to pursue your education formally.
        Copy and paste will only get you so far in the real world.

      104. JJJ: Its always interesting to hear a voice and an opinion from offshore. It is sad to hear you hope for the US to receive its “economic come-uppance” since no matter what country you live in you have probably benefited financially from US taxpayers generosity.

        Although you did not say so, and I am reading between the lines, its sounds like you live in one of those socialist european states that charges high taxes and gives its citizens 30 days of vacation every year. If that works for you, yours, and your society, “Good for you!”. Above all Americans believe in self determination .

        But if you live in one of those states you have benefited and will continue to benefit from the US taxpayer in one way or another, so be careful what you wish for: it might pull the rug out from underneath your country if it happens.

        But I am pleased to report to both you and Amber that there is no collapse coming. If I believed it was a remote possiblity I would say so. It is only fear mongering by the ill informed.

      105. Sherman, like many other congressmen were sold a load of horsemanure about “matial law” if the bailout isn’t passed.
        That was just to spook the people into accepting what their reps did against their wishes.
        If the treasury is short by a trillion, they’ll just print it up again.

      106. Durango Kidd,

        I would like to believe that there is no collapse coming…and indeed until there is one, it is uncertain.  I just see too many different monsters staring us in the face, and until I am convinced none of them will get us, I won’t rest easy.  No one has to fear monger me.  I seek this stuff on my own pessimistic time :-) 

        In business school, they taught us that the fed will take care of everything.  We don’t have to worry about another depression, because the fed has better ways now to prevent it.  Well, I frankly don’t trust the federal reserve.  And why should I?

        I am also concerned about our ability to resume growth.  For example, our state is suffering revenue cuts (a state with sales tax, but no income tax).  It is laying off a lot of people this go around, and not purchasing as many goods and services (talking billions).  Soon, we will have more people out of work from the public and private sector, all competing for jobs, draining unemployment, not paying sales tax revenues.  Which leads to more state cuts…  Not sure how deep this vicious cycle will go before it is stable.  The sales tax drop off is largely from the declining value of real estate:  sales tax on home sales, or borrowing from your equity to pay for trips to Walmart.  Plus, the baby boomers don’t have any investments other than their homes.  When they have to sell them for retirement cash, again prices go down.  How will we prop up this economy?  I suspect uncle sam and bernanke will delve into more stimulus like they did just recently with the Fed jobs bill.  We’re just sticking band aids on. 

        What new innovative technology is going to bring us out of this one?   Good luck creating new business opportunities.  As you pointed out, manufacturing and jobs are overseas for a reason.  It is not feasible to employ Americans or meet the gov’t regulations!  In short, I’m not aware of or optimistic of any breakthroughs.  

        Just giving some of the reasons why I live in the land of pessimism.  I enjoy it here and am never disappointed.

      107. Legalize pot and hookers.  Tax the shit out of it.  Tax Walmart for destroying the country.  Piss on Ted Kennedy’s grave for enslaving us to the poor and the handouts.  Death camps to any illegals….better, factory death camp.  Heck..let them all in…then enslave them to pay off the debt.  Spray defoliant on other nations crops…then jack up the price of wheat and corn to $1,000 a bushel.  Find all illegals and confiscate all their wealth.  Melt down all foreign cars.  Ban all foreign electronics…..reopen factories in America.  Kill all the lawyers…that means the politicians.  Pass law that lawyers cannot be politicians..further, must be business owners.  Deport all muslims…they are trying to change our culture.  Depopulate Mexico and use it to grow food.  Pass a law that everyone must own and carry a gun.  No more prisons…just a colleseum.  Get my angle here?  Had enough of all the bs, foreigners, nwo media brain washing.  Elite…we know who you are…eggs in your face.

      108. Well, that certainly was a bullshit answer Durango Kidd.

        When you say, “As a function of GDP it has actually been higher historically than it is right now (WWII). So in and of itself, the national debt is not a problem either.” I don’t understand, are you sure your nic shouldn’t be, “Deficits-Don’t-Matter Pelosi”?

        Deficits Will Matter

        “Anyone who thinks an extra $13,000 in household debt doesn’t matter is living in la-la land.”

        “the principle, “you can’t get something for nothing,” applies to capital markets. If the government absorbs a trillion dollars of investors’ money, that money cannot go to the private sector.”

        “The latest International Monetary Fund (IMF) staff paper comes closer to the mark by projecting that federal debt could equal total GDP as soon as 2015. These levels approximate the relative indebtedness of Greece and Italy today. Leaving aside the period during and immediately after World War II, the United States has not been so indebted since recordkeeping began, in 1792 (p. 25).

        The key word is “unsustainable.” The authors go on to say that current interest rates are low, but “this calm will not last.”

        If U.S. leaders do not act to curb this debt addiction, then the global capital markets will do so for them, forcing a sharp and punitive adjustment in fiscal policy.

        Here, in the refined and august pages of “Foreign Affairs,” the head of the CFR has used the phrase “debt addiction.” This is right out of the hard-money newsletter camp. So is the conclusion.

        The result will be an age of American austerity. No category of federal spending will be spared, including entitlements and defense. Taxes on individuals and businesses will be raised. Economic growth, both in the United States and around the world, will suffer. There will be profound consequences, not just for Americans’ standard of living but also for U.S. foreign policy and the coming era of international relations.”

        Then you say, “Our problem today is that the American means of production has been transferred offshore…”

        Didn’t you just praise the info I posted recently that showed this was Not the case?

        Are you not paying attention? Don’t you know it is mathematically Impossible for the U.S. to pay off its debt? So how could you say, “thus our ability to repay is jeopardized”?… We Can’t Friggin’ Repay!

        Then you go on to say, “As growth resumes our production capacity will expand again,” How’s that going to happen in the regulatory inflationist environment we have? Without seriously scaling back big goberment, lowering taxes and regulations how is there going to be growth? Don’t tell me you actually believe the politicians who say they are going to cut spending? Those slimy bastards can’t even name One program they would cut or scale back:

        Didn’t you get the notice? The Housing Market Is Never Going To Come Back To What It Was! GDP isn’t going to be supported by consumerism, and the goberment spending that currently maintains GDP is not sustainable. Even Bernanke understands that much.

        When you say, “Actually, the ideal is about 2-3% inflation every year to infinity.” That comes across as you saying, “Yes, The Fed understands and can control inflation.” That is a huge error, see the TMS:

        Bernake and Co. haven’t a clue what they are doing, or haven’t you seen the videos of Bernake in 2005 saying there is no reason house prices will fall etc…?

        I was disappointed you didn’t address where you thought things would go after years of double digit inflation. I thought perhaps you would wise up in answering the question.

        Lastly, are you from the Friggin’ East Coast or somethin’? I know people on the East Coast have an abrasive way of communicating, but your method takes the cake. What’s with the endless ad honium attacks? Whenever I see that I think, “They’ve got nothing.” Geez, I don’t want an education from you, I was just trying to understand your position, if you don’t want to tell us what that is, I guess that’s your business. I’d expect as much from a banker, and or a Keynesian.

        Lastly, what the hell is it with you and cut and paste? Can’t you do it? This is the information age, cut and paste brings it home, no lies, no BS, just the Facts, Jack.

      109. AMBER: Great post! It’s nice to read a comment from someone with a B-school education that can articulate a couple of paragraphs on finance/economics with copying and pasting links and misrepresenting an author’s article.

        I don’t trust the FED either. When Bernanke’s lips are moving he is lying. Watch what he does, not what he says. The only thing that he has said that was truthful is when he said that QE2 was not stimulating the economy. Nevertheless, the lame stream media continues to report that it is a stimulus, when it is intended to provide additional reserves for the coming losses that will result from a continuing Mortgage Mess.

        The economy is recovering slowly. It’s a two-tier economy where exports and manufacturing are improving and real estate lags. Hopefully, the former will exceed the latter, but this is normal. The pace of recovery is not normal and will remain that way. The baby boomers I know have lots of investments, but my friends are primarily financial guys, investors, and entrepreneurs.

        The lack of revenue for states and local economies are a GREAT opportunity to cut government services and programs, once and for all, until they provide only the essential services intended for government to provide, and eliminate the tax burden on American taxpayers.

        Obummer has learned that the FED jobs bill was a big mistake as far as creating a stimulus for the general economy. The tax plan that he put forward recently is the basic stimulus plan that he should have instituted two years ago; as it allows for accelerated equipment write offs. This will create jobs.

        No collapse, but a GREAT opportunity for reorganization that can allow the American people to get control of their government once again. There will be pain. Those new in power should be sure to spread the pain to those that deserve it: like the bankster gangsters.

        One innovative technology that could take US out of this one could be solar energy (see: SHTF Energy) as innovations that have brought solar panels to 25% effective can be increased in efficiency now by 300% with recent technology. If only 10% of the trillion dollar subsidy given to the hydrocarbon industry every year, were re-allocated to this technology at the RETAIL level every year, it could create millions of meaningful jobs while making US energy self sufficient. It is only a question of political will.

        Your glass may be half empty, but mine is half full. J


      110. Zack, I would say grab your ankles and k#ss your @ss goodbye. Or better yet, read a bible and declare Jesus your savior. Either way, its over soon.

      111. Geez, Durango Kidd, the ad honiums never stop with you, do they?

        “The economy is recovering slowly.”???

        Your glass is half full alright.

        “Tyler Durden ( has been pounding on the Baltic Dry Index plunge story. Here, here and here. I’m fascinated by this. Shipping is the backbone of global trade. So when a big index like this makes a big move in a short period of time there is almost always a message. But what message? One could easily read the drop in BDIY as a warning sign of a slowdown in global trade. Virtually every other barometer is pointing up. With that in mind, I ask the question; Is the BDIY an outlier, or should we be paying attention to what it is saying?”

        And this final tag, “Real estate lags”? crack me up, you are beyond clueless.

      112. Another thing I confess I don’t understand is how Anyone who thinks there is going to be double digit inflation for years on end can on the same page think there’s going to be a recovery?

        Perhaps an Obamatron who clings to hope and change with a secure retirement in 2015? Psft.

      113.  America is in deep trouble. Like NW advice it will find a solution. Just don’t be too proud to mention your problems. No right thinking Chinese, Russian, Brazillian and Indian want their world largest customer to die. America still have numerous talents, advance technologies and people with latent resilience although seriously have overspent. The Greek and Portuguese have committed themselves to thrift, productivity, delayed gratification and savings. A spendrift nation will not overnight become thrifty but when it come to grind American have always triumphed. American had helped the world with Marshall plan and this is not forgotten. More debts without a change in spending attitude alone will not convince the BRIC countries. America is lucky because these 4 countries can somewhat assist and America deserve to be assisted. The BRIC ARE BOOMING and it’s USA turn to export itself out of trouble. Just make sure the additional trillion is used to make money not spent. Money made forever generate more if it is less than the amount spent. Make those in power accountable for their action. If your ecomomy collasped, then you can forget about Iraq and Afghanistan then Russia, China and India will have more to worry about those terrorists. Let them share the cost of policing and maintaning peace. Negotiate with them. I am not an American but I don’t like to see your sons died in war for nothing. We are grateful. Nobody destroy their biggest client viz., USA. Your old people know how to build a great nations like Fisher said. They are your hidden resource. Panic cause collaspe. Steady, steady.. men. It take time and you will develop patience.

      114. Nick,
        Excellent points–you are more “American” than many who live in this country! You have a solid, positive attitude. Many people here in the U.S. have never experienced hunger, war (in their neighborhoods and cities), never been refugees, never experienced losing everything and starting over from scratch.
        Some have, most haven’t. It is as you said, “…Panic cause collaspe. Steady, steady.. men. It take time and you will develop patience.”
        It is amazing what people can get through if they are patient, steady, wise and strong (having loyal friends and people of “like mind” close to you also helps a lot). Also a sense of humor and optimism is good medicine in hard times. We can lose our physical possessions and still have the important things. As far as fearing being killed in some terrible social chaos or disaster? We all die sometime. No need to stress too much about “when”. Just do your best day by day.

        and a High School education wont get them anything with real pay, or a future.

        And a graduate degree soes???  check the want ads lately??
        cashier/fast food/yard work…about it for this neck of the woods/


        These posts are thought provoking…..don’t forget barter…I’m an excellent teacher and look forward to exchanging foods for portraying knowledge to those younguns..bring it!!
        I might be old, but I ain’t dead yet!!


         Don’t you know it is mathematically Impossible for the U.S. to pay off its debt? So how could you say, “thus our ability to repay is jeopardized”?… We Can’t Friggin’ Repay!

        And Clark, why is it the ‘brains’ in this administration and our disgraceful legislature do not get this??

        Economics 101–every bride of 18 years old knows this!!!
        More money out than in= bad
        More money in than out= good!!!!!

        The economy is recovering slowly. It’s a two-tier economy where exports and manufacturing are improving and real estate lags. Hopefully, the former will exceed the latter,????
        but this is normal

        Pardon me…what country are you living in??? What exports are we exporting?? Little play with words there!!
        Even the service industries, largely, here have been outsourced!!

        You didn’t read about the seminars of lawyers teaching human resource classes how to turn down American employees to ‘import’ more foreigners??? or to create a false reason to send mobs of jobs overseas>??

        How’d you miss that??

        January 8th, 2011 at 3:03 am
        Another thing I confess I don’t understand is how Anyone who thinks there is going to be double digit inflation for years on end can on the same page think there’s going to be a recovery?
        Clark, he isn’t using the same type calculator???

        Sorry about wasting my comment about exports, etc, when you already addressed it—sheer lunacy.

      120. Comments…..If we all work for the government unemployment falls to zero, everyone has money to spend at Chinkmart  and we all live happily ever after.
        This is easily financed by confiscating the wealth of the top 6% who looted it anyway and desperately need the spiritual growth that paupery provides.

      121. There are actually two ways to interpret the comments made by Rep.  Brad Sherman depending on how or why martial law might be declared.

        (1) If a $trillion bailout isn’t forthcoming then marital law will be declared (because the ensuing collapse would cause so much civil unrest).

        (2) If a $trillion bailout isn’t forthcoming then marital law will be declared (as a threat by the banking cartel controlling this country).

        Rep. Sherman’s allusion in the video to a “threat” certainly better fits interpretation (2) rather than (1).

      122. So we should simply default and let the Federal Reserve (Rothchilds) eat it.

      123. Comments…..Most memorable of Sherman’s publicized comments was his boast, “before I was a Republican, I was a Zionist”

        History is filled with all sorts of claims by dominion heretics. Those claims are best summarized by today’s new and improved and exceptionally well packaged dominion heresy. No it’s not the KKK or Nazis or the nuke that didn’t arrive at Barksdale AFB. It’s none of those. Abraham was Yiddish, Moses was White, the Easter Bunny is Real and Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with a crackwh*re in Mena Arkansas.

        Todays fools and toad stools for the demon’s ruse are the the same lackluster little man fraidy cat hillbillies our ancestors suffered the company of. They are the deluded, the fearful and extremely iodine deficient clans, whose sour genetics somehow escaped sharp edged justice of our ancestor’s swords. Like the Demon, the “little man clans of times past had many names: Nazis, Fascists, Democrat, Republican, Congressional Staffer, NBC Reporter. History’s dominion heresies all met fate by the same hand holding the same sword: Justice.

        Your weakness, Zionist, is a belief in a country bumpkin chant you are taught to profess with a simple chant and dance with the false Dominion Demon in his synagogue of death blood and war:

        “We are g*d’s only chosen people”.

        Tell Me Again, little man, why should you greater than what I perceive you to be?

        You’ve suffered? Wow – Probably the first Humans ever to have suffered. You’re very special Mr. Zionist Man. Please pay the clerk when you leave.

        “Everybody hates you because you’re better than they are my little Zionist Prince”.

        I wish someone hated me for that reason Mr Zionist Man. You are indeed special.

        Of course Zionist, as you’ve done generations passed you do again. Escape your “little man” issues Mr Zionist Man. Go to bed with the demon. Retreat to the comforting fraudulent dangerous (and silly) sanctuary of your subscribed dominion heresy. Curl up with the demon before he uses your body fat to warm himself and the gold in your teeth to adorn himself.

        Through out history, the Zionist Man, regardless of what was written on the clan’s banner follows the path that has always led the weak to their destiny. At he end of that path the sword of justice will again be shoved to hilt by men, pierce that hole in your empty soul where a heart should be.

        For your crimes Mr Zionist Man, Justice knows no mercy. Go peacefully into the night with the knowledge G*d’s got a special room for the most special of all specials, a claimant to being “one of g*d’s only chosen people”.

        The sword wont hurt. You were bred for this, Mr Zionist Man. Go with the faith your special place in the universe has free valet parking and a free buffet for all guests. It will be an all you can eat party for an eternity, Mr. Zionist Man (no tipping required!).

        The Glory Of Dying a Hated Miserable Painful Death for the Glory of a Dominion Myth Lie is the best way to die ever. Thats why our ancestors allowed your genetics to sneak into the future, Mr Zionist Man. The cyclic endless repetitive glories of Mosada over and over and over and over, Mr Zioinsist Man, is g*d’s reward to you as one of his “only chosen people”..

        Out times’ Zionist, and his genetics, like all Zionist cults by other names of times past who sold soul for the demon’s caress has always and only served one purpose: To be blamed by the demon for deeds done in the name God and Zion.

        Be warned Zionist: the demon that soothes the burdens your self claimed chosen status and repeated by the puppet masters you provide blood theater for WILL CAST BLAME ON YOU, ZIONIST, AND HE WILL BE BELIEVED. Your well conditioned shameless sense of dominion is not enough. History Lies and Myth Repetition will not save you, Zionist.

        The demon will say, as he’s said throughout history:

        The J*w made me do it.

        Open your eyes, Zionist. You know where this is going. And it will be absolute.

        A Zionist is Not a Jew. A Zionist is a Zionist, period.

      124. Don’t pay $30k for a private school!!  Most of them are held in low regard and cannot guarantee you work after you graduate.  Go to a state Community College which are very affordable.  Anyone who can work could make enough money in the three summer months to pay for a years tuition and books.  Student loans can be a trap.  If you choose to get student loans beware the temptation to get enough to pay for an apartment, car and a better lifestyle.  Many students spend thousands they do not need to spend simply because the money seems to be “free”. 

      125. DCAM
        “I am Federal LE, I am prepping and so should all of you. I will cash out before I arrest anybody in the streets for being tired, hungry and pissed off at the system that caused this!”
        I think that’s the way MOST LEO’s feel.
         As a vet I don’t worry much about most LEO’s on the local or state level. IF nasty stuff happens in our neck of the woods, I figure we’ll just team up and support one another against the miscreants. It’s a common interest type of thing–and it’s tradition.

      126. Comments…..How did Sherman vote. He voted for it, no?

        Ask Sherman to offer an amendment to end military operations and war contracting around the world. Let bring our brothers and sisters home, use the money saved and the resourcefulness of our returning Johnny’s and Johnie’s and get back to rule of law and real capitalism. Make GM, Microsoft, Ford outsourced and offshore facilities pay the FICA (Social Security Tax) for each employee and contractor they hire.

        I can tell you now he won’t vote against it.

        And thats the problem, Sherman, and almost everyone else needs turn themselves, and the records, into the authorities right now.

        Sherman needs the BOOT, irregardless of the Diebold machine’s claims. He should walk outright now. He needs to leave, because he lacks the logic of the founders, he is a fascist and loves wars to death. He gets donations (100% blood rinsed guaranteed) for War On Terror Gold Rush beneficiaries.

        Why did Sherman say that. Probably because thee were too many no votes for the extortion to become law and Sherman drew the short straw and had to (therefore) vote as instructed on the wire transfer, and not as instructed by 80% of his constituency to vote against TARP. Did anyone here seriously doubt TARP would pass. Agreed there are a few that work for their constituents and can’t be bought. The theater of 2 votes. TARP AS DESTINED TO ABSOLUTELY PASS FROM THE GETGO. His benefactors probably wrote the words he spoke above to defend his vote against his constituency (if he indeed voted that way).

        I think when the camera is off every bloated over paid made for prime time bagman congressional at the DieBold filled table has seen the wire transfer. The goal of the on going forever theater of congress (I mean – the same guys there now are the guys that were there a zillion years ago).

        Most where I live know those we employ as public servants are actors we think we had a say in selecting. Forget about DC. MSNBC Day and Night – republican this – republican that – fox news day and night democrat this democrat that.

        It ain’t about democrat or republican – there ain’t no difference – it’s about making it easy to keep you stupid and divide America into manageable demographics. It’s about making you feel virtuous through conformity.

        There ain’t no hero’s in DC’s K-Street Kiddie Brothel Row. Just mindless Diebold appointed Flesh Puppets with more makeup assistants than common sense that don’t give a sH*t about you. Forget em – live without `em. They’re destroying themselves. Just sit back and let it roll.

      127. JJ: Manufacturing is up year over year. Thats a fact. We export aircraft and heavy machinery. “Recovery” will be nothing like a normal recovery. Sadly, those without skills, ability, education, initiative, and adaptablity will be left in the dust.

        It is normal for exports to lead the “recovery” and real estate to follow. This time real estate won’t follow. The “recovery’ will be a european style recovery with perpetual high employment. Those of you that can should borrow and go back to school to get an education that is marketable; or develop a trade that you can sell. One doesn’t need to spend $30,000 at a private school to get an education.

      128. Clark: These are not personal attacks. Check the defitition.These are statements of fact that you reveal by your lack of knowledge of the most basic elements of the economy and how it works.

        I know you don’t understand. That is obvious. Neither do I want to waste my time educating you any more. I sacrificed much and put my life at risk to get the GI Bill so I could afford an education. Get your own. The sun is shining and the greens are fast. I have better things to do than educate you.

        Debt to GDP rises and falls over time. Be concerned about the American means of production (42,000 factories) that have been shipped offshore. Focus your rant on that. That is the danger to our economy and national debt. That limits the speed and magnitude of our “recovery” and our ability to generate income against our debt.

        Take some formal classes and do US all a favor.

      129. Where exactly does Geithner say a trillion in your quote?  Answer: He doesn’t.  You put words into his mouth.  Irresponsible “reporting”. 

      130. Comments….. Why should a free market people purchase and pay private debt from greedy bankers.

        Sorry, but we live in a country (USA) that is free enterprise.   If a company fails to meet customer needs or spends the money entrusted to it by their customers, it is no if but when it will fail.  Our government, on both sides of the isle, have agreed to reward the greedy with more tax payers money.  It’s got to stop.

        Also, all these government sub for non working people have to stop.  Why should generations be given money…I’d better stop.

        Uncle Sam…stop spending unearned income.  You are breaking us.

      131. Something like over half of the people in the USA are either 1) working for the government or 2) receiving some sort of government subsidy such as welfare, social security (retirement or disability), food stamps, etc.

        Less than half the population is helping to support the rest of the population.  Sounds unsustainable?  Indeed it is.

        Expect great “gnashing of teeth” when those drinking at the public spigot are sudden cut off.  They will be angry, hungry, and having become accustomed to handouts without working will come looking to get YOUR property – expect a great crime wave to sweep through the country.

      132. Durango Kidd said: ““Recovery” will be nothing like a normal recovery. Sadly, those without skills, ability, education, initiative, and adaptablity will be left in the dust….. One doesn’t need to spend $30,000 at a private school to get an education.”
        That is no lie. And remember its not just what you know, but also who you know. Usually people portray that as a bad thing, and quite often it does apply to cronyism and such. However, recently I’ve come to recognize the necessity of such an arrangement. If a guy needs a crew of electricians, or instrument techs, he isn’t necessarily going to just hire some stranger off the street. By hiring a someone he knows, he is more likely to be aware of their skill sets/capabilities, and thus he preserves his own job.
        After working in a coal power plant just this week, I find it hard to thing that that place is going to go offline anytime soon. Working there has actually changed my outlook and opinions of what’s to come in a major way. I’m glad to be learning a trade, and am actually much more optimistic than I was just last month. The world economy hasn’t stopped moving one bit.

      133. Nick…we will be okay,thanks for the concern!

        JJJ… are gonna be waiting a very long time boy,we fall and youre finished,like DK said; better watch what you hope for…you may get it! Personally I hope when we get this politically engineered BS out of our way and get things back where they should be that we stop giving aid to most of you outsiders and invest here like we used too,you need us alot more than we need or want you!

      134. JJ asked, “why is it the ‘brains’ in this administration and our disgraceful legislature do not get this??”

        Because they are Keynesians, or Chicago School orientated, just like our banker’s friend Durango Kidd:

        “Keynesianism is almost universally believed today. Therefore, mercantilism is almost universally believed. This connection is not intuitive, but it is nonetheless true. What the economics textbooks do not say, because they are written mostly by Keynesians, is that Keynesianism is mercantilism with equations.”

        “All collegiate textbooks promote mercantilism in monetary affairs. They all promote the cause of central banking. They all refuse to apply the logic of the chapter on cartels to central banking. Cartels are recognized as mercantilism for trade. But central banks are not presented as cartels, despite the fact that they are, both in theory and practice.”

        “Original mercantilism was a widely believed and invariably incorrect theory of trade that insisted that a nation grows rich by exporting more than it imports. David Hume, the Scottish philosopher, refuted this logic over 250 years ago. His fellow Scot, Adam Smith, refuted it in detail in 1776.

        A nation gets rich only if its residents get rich. Residents get rich by increasing their productivity. They stay rich by being allowed by the government to do whatever they want with their wealth, whether counted in gold, bank accounts, or goods. Liberty is the #1 basis of increasing people’s ability to become more efficient and therefore more productive. That was Smith’s argument in 1776. This is denied by Keynesianism.”

        “…when a government debases its currency in order to gain sales overseas, the nation earns less foreign exchange for the goods that it exports. As a result, its comparative advantage is blunted, and its citizens consume less as a result. In other words, as a nation’s currency declines, its citizens are forced to work harder for less.

        If a department store decided to have a sale in which all of its merchandise were marked down 50%, it will surely sell a lot more stuff. However, it would earn a lot less than if it had been able to sell its goods without marking them down. This is how currency debasement works. Similarly, one way for the unemployed to get work is to accept lower wages. Workers will sell a lot more of their labor if they accept 50% pay cuts. However, are they better off as a result? Relative to being unemployed, the answer is yes — but they would be much better off being employed at full pay.”

        “It is astounding how many economists, government officials, and Wall Street strategists construe the current economic conditions as evidence of a bona fide recovery. It is a testament to the power of the rose colored glasses handed out by our nation’s leading universities that such a feeling could be widely held despite the clear and present danger that compounds daily. The myopia leads us to enact policies that actually exacerbate our problems. The “remedies” are postponing, perhaps indefinitely, a true recovery.”

        “…EU member-states have shown some willingness to confront their problems by cutting government spending — correctly ignoring US government suggestions that they do the opposite.”

        “…the tough decisions being made by European governments will start to rebuild investor confidence in the euro.”

        “The real danger will be if we follow our own foolish advice that Europe appears to have rejected. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has bluntly suggested that European governments should print and spend money in order to keep their economies out of recession. In reality, cutting government spending is a far better stimulus. Maintaining lavish budgets through the use of the printing press will only result in disaster. Not only will such action fail to avert a double-dip recession, but it will practically ensure an inflationary depression.”

      135. Comments….love this site, voices in the wilderness,!conscious
        lock -in, humour,, its all here, love you all , keep those gardens growing, share with your neighbors, even if it is ammunitions!
        but as was said above , don’t underestimate the military, once on the side of the people this ballgame , can be swung towards “us”
        what are we really doing here?,,,, getting conscious, for what ?
        ha , your guess!, as for lining our pockets ” der er ingen lummer
        i lig klaeden” (DK for ;there are no pockets in your burial gown)
        , and education today ? , its part cyber , part parental, and mostly observe and adapt!, left the UC system back in ’70( ethno-sociology)
        for a sabatical, still at it !!, — Earth  Recovery Team, habitat in general,—–1$ = 1 liter of fresh , drinkable water, with no haliburtons in it, —the black list now includes, Haliburton, Mac do, VAG, Monsanto, Nestlés, and is growing, ,,,, new entrés anyone ? —– bonne année

      136. Comments…..addenda, any monetary system that will follow this debacle will have to be based on trade and trust,in which case
        any currency can work, locally,the food is there(  if we stop shale gas!!) and we’re looking at a beautiful bottle of wine, vintage “0”
        all that’s needed now is to pull the cork!!,,,, one foot in ragnorok, the other in the golden age, watch your step!

      137. 5-7 more years of the really bad stuff.  Hope you all own gold and silver.

      138. Came across a quote and thought it applied to this thread:

        “The aim of totalitarian education has never been to instill convictions but to destroy the capacity to form any.” – Hannah Arendt

      139. … Congressional members were told that if the bailout was not authorized by Congress the collapse would be so severe that martial law may have to be declared…”

        I would really like to know exactly who did the telling.

      140. sjdude:  “I would really like to know exactly who did the telling.”

        That would be Paulson from Treasury and whoever was with him in those closed meetings.   Can’t remember if Bernanke was there or n0t.  Likely he was!

      141. So when will the collapse happen? I would say that we can continue raising the debt ceiling for many years. Take a look at Japan. Their debt is 200% of GDP and 60% of their tax revenue is used to pay the interest on that debt. It could be 10 years before we have a crisis but I’m reeady now.

      142. Comments…..What Paulson and Bernanke really meant was our own companies are in trouble…let’s get our government to pay for our lost and the tax payer will flip the bill.  Duh…it worked.  But don’t ask “where the money is going”

      143. “… Congressional members were told that if the bailout was not authorized by Congress the collapse would be so severe that martial law may have to be declared…”

        You know this kindof warning was being spread on the internet.  Of course, who whould not sign a bill to prevent:
        -          Chaos
        -          Marshall law
        -          A market crash
        -          The entire world from taking their money out of the market.

        Pres. Bush told Sean Hannity, he did not veto the bill, because he did not want it to happen under his watch. 

      144. The bailout was distributed after Bush left the White House. 

        The bailout money was to prevent the system from collapsing and was not used as Bush approved it for after he left the office.

        Republican Congressman Darrell Issa intends to investigate why the money was not used as Bush intended. 

        It seems the Federal Reserve Chairman (each term is 12 years) controls the shrinking or expansion of the money supply, and the president is at the mercy of the Federal Reserve.

      145. Hi Clark: Thanks for the invite! No, I am not the banker’s friend, but I do understand the system which is more than I can say for you. No one can think critically, and therefore think outside of the box, if you don’t know what is inside the box. That’s where one starts: inside the box. This lack of knowledge is what you expose every time you make a post about economics and finance; and you now defend your ignorance by attacking knowledge itself.

        Not only do you not know the basic elements of the system, but you do not know how they interact. For example, in an earlier post you asked whether the double digit inflation I predict will last into infinity, saying that every currency that experiences double digit inflation for an extended period of time goes to hyper-inflation and then collapses. Not true.

        If you possessed the knowledge and understood how the system works, you would not ask such basic, fundamental questions, and you would know that inflation, like unemployment and the debt to GDP ratio, rises and falls over time. In a period of rising inflation which we will have, the dollar loses value (inflation) against other currencies. As our currency value declines, consumers pay more for imported goods, and buy less of them. That is why China, Russia and others are pissing and moaning: their lost sales, mean our increased sales.

        Conversely, a declining dollar makes our products cheaper to others. This stimulates production in the United States for export and increases employment to meet rising demand, lowering the unemployment rate. This increased production expands our production capacity and expands GDP, increasing our ability to service and/or retire our debt. Thus, the “race to the bottom” by the major currencies, that you have probably read about.

        For the major currencies to reach economic parity, it will require considerable, but manageable inflation in the USA over the four of five years that Bernanke is stating that it will take for the economy to recover. It will be very painful for the majority of Americans. The rich will not be adversely impacted by inflation, and they would be better situated for collapse. No one should under estimate the rich. They are smart, and in most cases, they are better armed.

        If Bernanke keeps printing money and it manages to eventually get in circulation to create the hyper-inflation that you fear, I get filthy, filthy rich when my gold, silver, copper, aluminum, titanium, platinum, palladium, iridium, and rhodium go through the roof!

        If the banks collapse as you fear, guess what? I get filthy, filthy rich when my gold, silver, copper, aluminum, titanium, platinum, palladium, iridium, and rhodium go through the roof!

        I got to this position by thinking critically, and by thinking outside the box. But first I got the education that made it possible. Anyone that criticizes a formal education obviously doesn’t have one. Get yours. It would be a better use of your time. Even a chimp could learn to cut and paste.
        Just saying 🙂

      146. Comments…’s peeing match has made this whole thread wet and stinky. thanks.

      147. @Jane – Might want to research before speaking, and I quote, ”
        As stipulated the Banking Act of 1935, the President appoints the seven members of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System; they must then be confirmed by the Senate and serve for 14 years. Once appointed, Governors may not be removed from office for their policy views. The chairman and vice-chairman are chosen by the President from among the sitting Governors for four-year terms; these appointments are also subject to Senate confirmation. In practice the chairman is often re-appointed, but cannot serve longer than one 14-year term as governor (or, if appointed to fill a position whose previous occupant had not served out their term, then 14 years plus the time remaining in the previous unexpired term).”

        4 Year terms, not 12.  Thank all that is glorious.

      148. Not raising the debt ceiling may trigger defaults immediately, but raising it would not necessarily invite immediate problems. The global financial market would be the judge of that. We know that Japan is even more indebted and their interest rates are low and the yen is still a sound currency, so the markets may tolerate a lot more US debt than you think. Since the US dollar is the reserve currency it is in nobody’s interest to let it go down. “Extend and pretend” and “mark to fantasy” accounting can occur globally to evade the reality of the situation indefinitely. That being the case, I am amazed when I read analysts saying that ‘there is no fundamental reason for the stock market to fall this year.’

      149. This request to raise the debt ceiling is nothing but a lie to get to spend more money. They scared everyone with their “martial law,…tanks in the street”…scenario so that they could bail out their friends, the friends that got all the money and won’t help you.

        They just want more money, at your expense. America is not going to fall. Let the debt ceiling stay where it is, tell the bankers no more money, and tell the government, no more money to throw away.

        This is just another hoax by your government. If you believe them, just send me your money and I’ll take better care of you than they will.

      150. To clarify, when a country is faced between the two choices of default or to inflate, and they choose to inflate, hyper-inflation is the result.

        I’m not aware of any examples that prove otherwise, nor has anyone provided one. I could be wrong on that, I don’t think so though.

        “By World War I most nations had a legalized government monopoly on bank notes and the legal tender status thereof. In theory, governments still promised to redeem notes in specie on demand. However, the costs of the war and the massive expansion afterward made governments suspend redemption in specie. Since there was no direct penalty for doing so, governments were not immediately responsible for the economic consequences of printing more money, which led to hyperinflation – for example in Weimar Germany.”

        In the end, Every fiat monetary system collapses, there’s never been an exception in all of history.

        “Although it may be convenient for the US, and the entire world, to continue believing in the US dollar there is actually no historical basis for the success of any fiat currency. That’s because no fiat currency has EVER survived in the history of the world. You read that correctly: It’s not a matter of studying the good ones and seeing what they did right or wrong to make them succeed. None of them has ever survived.

        Since the probability of any paper fiat currency collapsing is 100% then we can switch our focus on trying to guess when, not if it will fail.”

        I pose basic and fundamental questions to kensyist to try and make conversation to discuss the issues but often they refuse to answer and resort to personal attacks and such in their disagreement, especially to the statements I provide from people (usually with PHd’s in finance who understand Austrian Economics) and others such as David Hume, the Scottish philosopher and Adam Smith, kensysist really dislike those guys.

        When a kensysist tells us things like, “debt to GDP ratio” or
        “increasing our ability to… retire our debt” it’s helpful to know a few things:

        1.) “We have reached the point in the United States where the debt our government has accumulated against us is mathematically impossible to pay off.”

        2.) The info in this article and on this video:

        Fuzzy Numbers
        “you owe it to yourself to listen to this explanation of how wrong our measures of inflation and GDP really are.”

        If the future, “will be very painful for the majority of Americans” how will they save any money to increase GDP?

        Standing Keynesian GDP on Its Head: Saving Not Consumption as the Main Source of Spending

        “According to the prevailing Keynesian dogma, consumption is the main form of spending in the economic system, while saving is mere non-spending and thus a “leakage” from the spending stream. This dogma underlies much of government economic policy in the United States, including the so-called economic stimulus package that has just been enacted. In this article, I prove, to the contrary, that consumption is not the main form of spending in the economic system and that the source of most spending is, in fact, saving. I prove my claims by starting with the very formulations of the expenditure aggregates presented by the Keynesian doctrine itself.”

        “…France was not plunged into a decade-long economic pit by wild-eyed fools, but rather by calm, well-educated ones. The smartest guys in the room whose ideas brought about the tragedy “were universally recognized as among the most skillful and honest financiers in Europe”(p. 47).

        Because France in 1789 was in an economic downturn, the idea that the difficulties were due to a lack of money — and that more of it would be nice — caught the imagination of many people. France boasted its own Bernankes, Paulsons, and Greenspans, and when not misthinking, they were off making the rounds of Parisian salons, talking peoples’ ears off about how fiat money, despite its disastrous history, could work if only done better — and better is what they intended.”

        “The Austrian School’s representatives predicted the recession. The defining moment was Peter Schiff’s debate with Art Laffer in 2006. Schiff said a crash was coming. Laffer ridiculed him.”

        “Who will still be standing to pick up the intellectual pieces? The Chicago School economists did not predict 2008. They did not defiantly protest the FED’s bailouts of September and October. Neither did public choice economists, rational expectations economists, or behavioral economists. They all climbed aboard the Good Ship Keynes, which was in fact the Good Ship Bernanke. The Austrians did not.

        The Austrians, few in number, are the last men standing to challenge the Keynesians.”

        “…thinking, as Vico pointed out, is hopeless when it remains isolated reason. It has to include practical wisdom and rhetoric. The Cartesian cogito ergo sum (I think therefore I am) is just not enough.”

        I provided some info and the links, I hope it helps others to decide.

      151. @Zack,

        Lots of excellent suggestions for you so far. I would add whatever you choose to do make sure it is something that will provide immediate benefits when the “time” comes. In other words, can you fix a small engine and turn it into a generator? Or can you weld some materials into a defensive structure? You get my drift. Not glamorous at all but what you and your loved ones WILL need. God bless and good luck.

      152. Slavo,

        Why are you taking what the congressman said out of context?

        Sherman said that there was deliberate fear-mongering in order to get a bill passed.  He did not say that we were close to economic collapse.

        Now, you are giving the appearance that YOU are fear-mongering. 

        While we are living in uncertain, if not dangerous times, you are going to have to do a better job formulating your arguments and editorials.

      153. Anonymous, here is an article where Jim Rogers talked about Benanke’s term limit.

        Jim Rogers Calls For Bernanke’s Resignation (by Paul Joseph Watson Thursday, March 20, 2008)
        Top investor Jim Rogers has publicly called for Federal Reserve chaiman Ben Barnanke to resign, blaming him for destroying the dollar and bailing out his friends on Wall Street at the cost of the American taxpayer, in the latest savage attack on the Fed amidst the latest round of economic turmoil.
        I think the Fed should be abolished, we’d all be better off without the Fed …. in my view their day is done,” said Rogers during an appearance on CNBC yesterday.
        Rogers pointed out that concerns over a vacuum of power were trite considering America had successfully lived without a central bank before and the first two central banks had failed.


        Asked if Bernanke should resign, Rogers responded,He should be fired, we can’t fire him unfortunately under the terms of his contract he’s there for another 12 years…… I think eventually things are gonna get so bad we’re gonna get rid of him one way or the other he’ll resign.”


        Rogers said that the Federal Reserve’s mandate was to protect the dollar but that the Fed was “letting the dollar collapse” and “filling the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet with a bunch of garbage.”
        Despite the fact that Rogers admitted he was still making money due to his heavy investment in commodities, he said that he didn’t approve of what the Fed was doing.
        Rogers has been on a crusade over the past few weeks, slamming the Federal Reserve with every opportunity he gets.

        On Tuesday he appeared on Bloomberg News and told viewers that the Fed had “given up” on the dollar, advising people to dump the greenback and buy gold as well as currencies like the Chinese Renminbi and the Swiss Franc.
        He also slammed Bernanke for bailing out his banking friends on Wall Street so they could keep their bonuses at the expense of American taxpayers and the value of the dollar.
        During a CNBC appearance last week, Rogers called for the Fed to abolished outright after Bernanke dumped $280 billion in liquidity into the market, a move that put 400 points on the Dow but contributed to the dollar hitting new lows and inflation continuing to skyrocket. Rogers said the action would only cause “a worse recession in the end“.

      154. All I can add is, this is Just like the housing bubble as it began to blossom in 2003-2004.

        We would try to tell people about the coming crash in housing prices and warn about the oversupply but we were greeted with condescending replies by those in the know and were told we needed to, “Get an education” … so much for that, the ones with an “education” were the ones being taken for the biggest ride, housing Only goes up ya know. Psft.

        The people on this website who say their friends don’t respond and no longer talk to them after they were warned is sooo much like what we experienced when we tried to warn others about the impending housing crash that it’s not even funny.

        On the housing blogs that I frequent, occasionally there are people who post that they are very grateful for our warnings and they say we saved them, “thousands and thousands!” of dollars by avoiding a common blunder the experts and inside people didn’t warn them about in advance.

        I hate to think about those who fail to heed these warnings if the information here proves to be correct. There’s nothing I would like more than to be proven wrong by the test of time, unfortunately it looks less and less likely that the information I’ve posted is incorrect.

        Who knows what the future will hold. Human action is tough to anticipate, there are many variables.

      155. There IS a way out of America’s financial predicament: “SELL the family silver” (Alaska, Hawaii, National Parks, Disneyland, MLB, NFL, Wash. DC, etc.) to Sovereigns AND go back to the GOLD standard AND eliminate the Military. Of course, the price of GOLD will have to be “adjusted” to about $32,000/oz!

        Russia will buy Alaska. Japan will buy Hawaii (they already ‘own’ it). The Germans will buy Disneyland. China will buy the Military. Israel will buy Wash. DC (it’s already ‘occupied’ by Israel – CONgress <b>AND</b> the WH). Of course, most of this <i>family silver</i> will have to be nationalized before it can be sold to the highest bidder. No problem – another Executive Order will do.

      156. PS Just to be clear, these sales will be for GOLD, only! After the sales, America will confiscate GOLD (like it did before) and THEN raise the price to $32,000/oz. To be followed by STIFF trade tariffs – bringing manufacturing and millions of JOBS back to the Good Old USA! 🙂

        BINGO – No more debt! GOLD galore in Fort Knox.

      157. After all the (GOLD) dust has settled, America will make “an offer they can’t refuse” to the new owners of all the family silver it wants back! 😉 Why will it work? It’s called the “Samson Option” – American Style. Israel will become America’s ENFORCER! 😮

      158. Many of you are undoubtedly thinking: “Hey – this GodSend should run for the Presidency in 2012!” Sorry – but, like Barry Soetoro, I’m not eligible to hold the Office of President of the United States of America (not born here). Anyway, in 2012, TSWHTF – as in ARMAGEDDON FAN! 😮

      159. Comments….. I’ve been watching this kind of stuff too. Have you looked into this? If not, I believe you will find it very interesting. You can save money right now, and down the road. Plus, it’s much more convenient and cost effective that anything else out there that I’ve seen … We’re enjoying it now and saving some for later on. God bless! ~Bobby

      160. I agree 100% with Tom.  Our education in this country is appalling and it is clearly evident.  The most frustrating part about it is that nobody seems to care.  There is very little understanding of the financial crisis our country is in and people are ill-prepared for what is heading our way.  Almost everyone in this country is just one paycheck away from financial disaster.  Credit cards are filled to their limits with little or no concern as to how their balances will be paid.  Stop spending money if you don’t have the cash to pay for it!  You don’t NEED a big screen TV if you can’t pay for it! Live within your means! I’ll say it again, LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!


        The word is “escalator.”  An a, not a u.  That is what is the matter with the U.S. now.   We’re all semi-literate, not interested in education, and we think it doesn’t matter.  We don’t save, and the rest of the world is eating our lunch.  ADHD all around. 

      161. Ziggy’s have really nice 55 gallon barrels (some very clean inside and other are not) for around $22 dollars. Also Big R has 65 gallon free standing water barrels for $129 bucks. Dollar Store has 1 gallon water bottles (full) for you got it $1 dollar 🙂 You need to collect the rain water with the barrels that had previously had jalapeno’s in them and use this for washing dishes, butts and watering your raised beds. Use the others for portable water usage like cooking and drinking. 

      162. Excellent analysis & article by Mac Slavo. I concur 100%. I lived in Argentina from 1974 to 1997 witnessing SEVERAL economic collapses during that time. I see SO MANY parallels happening right now in the U.S.,  it’s mind-boggling.  BTW, just like with Argentina, the U.S. is not only experiencing severe economic problems, but ALSO complete lack of rule of law, corrupt legislators, imbecilic judicial decisions and an inoperant & strangely absent executive branch too.

        I believe that the most appropriate word that summarizes the U.S.’s current general situation most perfectly is : CLUSTERF@CKED!

      163. Comments…’s time to start a backyard garden and build a chicken coup

      164. What I don’t understand is this: If a small group of Americans KNOW for a fact (which we do) that our way of life is being threatened by these corrupt people in congress, why a group of people has not been assembled to assassinate these domestic enemies so that we can get back to the basics and begin to build our country strong again. Why are we sitting back and watching these people destroy this country and doing nothing about it? So who are going to be the people who organize a group and take these people down swiftly? The list of people who are destroying this nation in the quest for power and money fueled by greed is long but even a small group of 50-100 people could eliminate a large majority of these treasonous traitors if it were orchestrated properly. We know who the traitors are, they operate every day in plain view through the mainstream media yet no one does anything about it. Why? And please, do not tell me to vote. Voting does not work anymore. Especially since we know for a fact that there are orgnizations in this country that register dead people and illegal aliens to vote. The American citizens main power to influence the direction of their nation has been spoiled by corruption. So now that we are powerless against these devils, what do we do?

      165. And real quick before I forget… “What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” – Thomas Jefferson


      167. You know ..I am truly amazed…AMAZED at how well all of these government officials are so well paid..but yet they have allowed us to be at the Brink of a financial collapse that can literrally destroy this country. I personally do not get it.
        We are borrowing 3rd world countries money while we waste and live high on the hog? WHAT?!!!! This is absolutely crazy..and irresponsible of our government to have used a system such as this to build a false nation of hopes and dreams.  IT is WRONG!!!
        IT is time for America to clean up!  Every single person in our government should be fired.. FIRED.
        The simple fact is you don’t give what you don’t have…and then take it away.
        Mr. Geithner… this country is reaping what it has sowed and so be it.
        If we go bankrupt..then that is truly what is meant to be. You can not print your way out of this. Buying time is ludicrous. Let the chips lay where they fall so we can truly get healed…
        The American Government is corrupt and preposterous…and it is a shame you all sold out..because you can not be honest and stop lying about all that you do.  For every dollare you spend you borrow 43 cents.. wow..what hypocrites!

      168. What follows is a brief video of Brad Sherman will discuss the situation in response floor.In House, the government, full support and confidence of Congress unprecedented actions to save the system by placing the first of billions and then trillions of dollar rescue does business, to stabilize the price of a deflationary slump and revive the economy.

      169. The fundamental problems within our economy became mainstream news in the latter part of 2008 when stock markets around the world were in free fall and most major financial institutions were on the cusp of insolvency.

        • All of the trillions spent, all of the laws passed, and all of the manipulations of global asset markets, have done absolutely nothing to resolve the fundamental systemic problems we faced prior to the onset of the crisis.

      170. All of the trillions spent, all of the laws passed, and all of the manipulations of global asset markets, have done absolutely nothing to resolve the fundamental systemic problems we faced prior to the onset of the crisis.

      171. I Hope this ain’t the axe falling, but then again, the farther down the wrong road you go, the farther you have to travel back to get on the right track

      172. Many will sell their gold only to be hit with a dollar crash or formal devaluation by the government which will leave them unprotected when the crisis hits.

      173. The scary thing is, according to Mr. Geithner and the many supporters of raising our debt ceiling, that borrowing more money is the only solution available.

      174. Here we are in septemeber 14 2012 and Chairman Ben Bernanke Earlier Thursday announced it plans to buy $40 billion a month in mortgage-backed securities, in a policy known as QE3. The economy would be weak enough for continued low interest rate until 2015. The unemployment rates continue to rise and bernanke, along with other economist warns that if we don’t do anything about 2013’s fiscal cliff,that is spending cuts and tax increases would bring dire consequences to the economy at the begining of 2013. On top of this, global instability, violence, and protest persists in lybia, followed by its spread to other u.s embassy in middle east after the death of an American embassador. Furthermore, We are literally on the brink of a war with Iran. Massive drought increases the price of food in America, TSA beingroutinely in many events. Many Americans are waking up to a harsh reality and are realizing the reason for the immenent collapse. George soros warns aboutthe global economy for fall 2012.


      1. Final Warnings Report - Economic Precipice Near - [...] Popular Confirmed: We're Literally On the Brink of Catastrophic CollapseTop 10 Survival Downloads You Should HaveWe're Going to Experience…

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