It’s not just average Canadians who are coming to the US for healthcare needs. In a show of why socialized medicine cannot ever meet the same level of care as free market health care, the Canadian Premier heads to the US for surgery:
Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.
Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.
“He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done,” said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.
“In consultation with his own doctors, he’s decided to go that route.”
Of course HE decided to go that route, because he’s got the money to pay for it. For the millions of Canadians stuck underwater in their homes, losing jobs and seeing their savings dwindle, no such option exists. Like the UK, Canadians have to wait to be seen by specialists, wait to have MRI’s or other scans performed and then they must wait for the actual surgeries.
This is what is coming to America under socialized medicine. What is a routine, rapidly initiated procedure today will become a bureaucratic struggle in the future. While a committee takes their sweet time deciding whetherÂ not you are qualified for a particular procedure, be it cancer therapy or heart surgery, you’ll be sitting on the sidelines praying and hoping that your benevolent government will find you worthy.
Incidentally, this will also be the case with purchasing homes, cars and acquiring student loans if we cede control of these free market sectors to a socialist government.
This may come as a shock to you, but Canada does not have “socialized medicine”; what that country DOES have is socialized insurance. Â Perhaps you should research this topic more thoroughly before regurgitating the GOP’s party line.
Call it what you will Axel. It’s the same idea they want to pass here.
Socialized Insurance = Socialized Medicine
They are inter-related. You cannot have a system of health care that is 100% insured by the government, and not have restrictions insofar as price and actual care is concerned placed on doctors. Essentially, the doctors are forced to do it the way the government says, or they don’t do it at all. What do you call that?
On another note, I could honestly care less about the GOP’s party line, though I do admire and support certain conservative ideas. I can’t say the same about most ‘progressive’ ideas, as in my opinion they are mostly regressive.
What you get here is the Mac Party, and nothing else.
I’ve seen socialized medicine in action 30 years after it was instituted in East Block countries, and though I may not understand the intricacies of socialized “insurance”, I do understand that pretty much anything that’s socialized turns out to be a disaster because socialized-anything can not operate without a Ponzi driven funding scheme system. The commies screwed up medicine in Eastern Europe so bad, that 20 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall it’s still a disaster — probably because they continued the socialized model. Surprisingly, it’s still a mess.
Progressives, libs, democrats and whoever else, can dream of utopia, but the fact is, that in the real world, you can’t have 100% of people getting anything. We are not even capable of designing government programs to feed the poor or educate children properly — how do you expect to offer 100% of the people health care?
Socialized medicine is nothing more than a bad joke…. or nightmare.Â Take your pick.
Great article reminding us about socialized medicine, and even better response to the first commenter.Â Kudos.
Like you said, it doesn’t matter if we focus on the insurance aspect of the providers, when its paid for either way by government, there will be disastrous consequences: rationing, decrease in quality, and more.
Common sense is all that is needed when it comes to this.
Once again, you seem to be confusing terms.Â Socialized medicine â‰ socialized health insurance.Â Socialized medicine is a system in which the government owns and operates a countryâ€™s health care facilities and employs the staff necessary to run them.Â If you need a real-life example of what this looks like, take a look at the VA healthcare system.
You make a compelling argument against the healthcare systems in the former East Block countries while they were under communism, but you completely miss the point of my first post: when you spread misinformation, it detracts from the credibility of everything else that you write.
My critique isnâ€™t one of conservative ideology, but rather of your use of the â€œsocialized medicineâ€ bogeyman as the be-all and end-all of the healthcare debate.Â I mentioned the GOP because â€œsocialized medicineâ€ is one of the partyâ€™s favored straw men, and it appears as though youâ€™re using the very same flawed logic.
I wonder, can you see the irony in your statement?Â The truth is, we already ration health care in the United States.Â Insurance companies continue to operate unethically.Â Millions of Americans are receiving substandard care, and still more arenâ€™t receiving any healthcare whatsoever.Â If these donâ€™t qualify as the â€œdisastrous consequencesâ€ of a broken healthcare system, I donâ€™t know what does.
Sweet no waiting for MRIs, surgeries, specialists appts. God bless the USA. Wait… We do have to wait for all 3 unless we are super rich. Dang there goes that argument. However I will agree with you that healthcare bill was a joke. Easy solution – open up Tricare. You will not get better insurance than that – and holy crap it was gov’t run. I was on it growing up and now I pay for blue cross. Yeah $500 deductible then I pay 20%. Long as I don’t get cancer I’ll be fine. What a joke
“I am not trying to demean you, but socialized medicine is nothing more than a bad jokeâ€¦. or nightmare.Â Take your pick.”
While your not trying to demean… you are succeeding. I often find the content on this site to be of value and meaningful. However, in this regard I find your comments without supporting evidence (I haven’t been following this blog long enough to generate a comprehensive history of your views on the matter) and inflammatory in tone.
No system is perfect, but I would argue that there IS rationing going on in the United States. Just not the same way as in Canada. As well, Mr Williams has not revealed to the general public the rationale for his choice… I don’t believe we should (in fairness) infer the reasons for his decisions.
If my memory serves, in Canada we spend 1/3 less per capita than the United States. I would be interested (from an intellectual standpoint) to see how much shorter the wait times would be with comparable levels of funding.
“I am not trying to demean you, but socialized medicine is nothing more than a bad jokeâ€¦. or nightmare.Â Take your pick.”
From a Canadian, with respect, our system is not perfect and DOES have its flaws, but it is neither bad joke nor a nightmare.
It saddens me that you have such a misinformed view of the canadian health care system. Your commentary is usually quite savvy. Our healthcare system Â is superb, and Danny Williams could have easily had that operation here,as noted here.Â http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2514581
The cost per bed in the united states is 4 0r 5 times that in canada due to the extreme profit motive of every facet of your healthcare and insurance system, one that abandons millions, one whose health care system is as corrupt as your banking system, and sadly, especially after the supreme court ruling last week that lifts any limit on corporate donations to political interests, as corrupt as your political sytem, your judicial system, which has utterly abandoned the interests of the people to serve the interests of the corporations, at the cost of Â your nationhood. That stuns me. Â My father recently worked with an american who was up in canada, his role the vice president of a major international company. His role here lasted about 8 years. He was Harvard schooled, and is a republican. He became ill here with cancer, and was stunned, stunned, that the treatment he was getting here was free, and he was blown away by the quality of treatment he received. He could not believe that this level of health care was available to all, rich and poor. I think his experience shook him, as he had preconceived notions about what health care in canada is like, and had trouble reconciling his previous views. It also saddens me to see nothing but misinformation about canada’s health care system spread in the united states. Â This trap of not really understanding how other nations actually do things in reality, and making judgements based not on fact, but vague understandings and preconcieved notions, and loads of propaganda from the ‘bought’ media is a deadly one, but is to be expected when a nation has decended into the abyss. America needs fact, not fiction. America needs proper media that reports fact, not fiction. It is scary being an outside observer, and seeing how little proper reporting or journalism is done in america. It is all controlled by very obvious vested interests. Â I suggest you spend some time in canada, watch our news, and observe america from afar. It will frighten you, and frighten you more once you realise that your preconceived notions about many things were utterly wrong. The education system in america that has created much of this ignorance is also at fault in a stunning way. Public schooling in Canada is superb, not so in the USA. Â America has failed its people. Sad time. By the way, i love your site and will continue to read it. And finally, I do not even think that the Democrats have even a clue about the canadian health care system. Oh well, time marches on.
SC, Radaam, Axel, your insights are much appreciated.
All great comments folks, and admittedlyÂ my knowledge of the Canadian system is limited. It sounds like, based on the comments from Canadian visitors, that the health care system is not as bad as it has been made out to be. However, I’ll maintain my position that over many years the system has no way to go but down. For me, it boils down to the economics of how the systems are paid for. On that note, perhaps at this time, Canada is much more capable of covering the costs than the US would be… at least your country produces a good deal of natural resources which should help the Canadian government maintain a revenue flow for years to come.
Marc, in regards to the US system – i don’t disagree.A quick discussion with veterans and the VA can give us some insight into how bad a ‘socialized’ system and rationing really is. Same with Medicare and Medicaid, in my opinion. I am not trying to suggest our health care system is without faults, and insurance companies do have a stranglehold on the US system. I would prefer that we go with a real free market system, though. Like many industries i n the US, the ‘free market’ health care system has been hijacked by special interests – but in my opinion, this does not mean a socialized, government run system is the answer.
Back to Canada – I hope all the Canadians here are not pissed off at me. My intention was not to attack you, it’s the idea of pretty much socialized anything that I have a problem with.
Thanks all,for a solid discussion of the issues.
As the running joke goes in Canada: We have the best health care system in the world, unless you get sick.
Our vaunted *free* system works out to about $4500 per Canadian per year, and if you don’t mind waiting 6 months for an mri, a year for a hip replacement, or forever like Danny William’s, then yes, we have a great system
You know who really loved the Canadian health care system? Ex Prime Minister Jean Cretien. So much so that he sent his family to the US for treatment. Same with Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff, who lived in the US for 30 odd years.
Add that to the literally thousands of Canadian babies who have to get treatment in the US every year because there aren’t enough beds available in Canadian hospitals, the tens of thousands of people who are on never-ending waiting lists for the simplest procedures, the average 3 hour wait times in Ontario emergency wards, and the bloated, inneficient money hole that is our wonderful *free* system.
The same wonderful system that made me take an ambulance from one hospital to another because there weren’t any available ambulances – and when I got to the other hospital there weren’t any doctors there that could perform my appendix operation. It’s okay though, after it burst they brought me to yet another hospital that did it the next day. But it was all free.
If the US would bring in Tort reform they would find medical costs would plummet. But how is that possible when ambulance chasers like the mighty John Edwards and his ilk run the show by buying up politicians.
Canada has a health care system, but don’t ever call it great. cuz it aint!
Comments…..there is a reason alot of hospitals are called saint marys, saint joe, or what ever, the churches used to run all the hospitals, funded by charity.Â Since the u.s. doubled its population with emigration in the last 60, we can not go back???
kevin said: “Since the u.s. doubled its population with emigration in the last 60,…”
kevin, no country can double its population with EMIGRATION, it doubles with IMMIGRATION.
Sorry, but I had to say something about this terrible misconception of terminology.Â Please take note.Â Thanks.