America’s Bubble Economy Is Going To Become An Economic Black Hole

by | May 22, 2013 | Headline News | 189 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Black HoleWhat is going to happen when the greatest economic bubble in the history of the world pops?  Themainstream media never talks about that.  They are much too busy covering the latest dogfights in Washington and what Justin Bieber has been up to.  And most Americans seem to think that if the Dow keeps setting new all-time highs that everything must be okay.  Sadly, that is not the case at all.  Right now, the U.S. economy is exhibiting all of the classic symptoms of a bubble economy.  You can see this when you step back and take a longer-term view of things.  Over the past decade, we have added more than 10 trillion dollars to the national debt.  But most Americans have shown very little concern as the balance on our national credit card has soared from 6 trillion dollars to nearly 17 trillion dollars.  Meanwhile, Wall Street has been transformed into the biggest casino on the planet, and much of the new money that the Federal Reserve has been recklessly printing up has gone into stocks.  But the Dow does not keep setting new records because the underlying economic fundamentals are good.  Rather, the reckless euphoria that we are seeing in the financial markets right now reminds me very much of 1929.  Margin debt is absolutely soaring, and every time that happens a crash rapidly follows.  But this time when a crash happens it could very well be unlike anything that we have ever seen before.  The top 25 U.S. banks havemore than 212 trillion dollars of exposure to derivatives combined, and when that house of cards comes crashing down there is no way that anyone will be able to prop it back up.  After all, U.S. GDP for an entire year is only a bit more than 15 trillion dollars.

    But most Americans are only focused on the short-term because the mainstream media is only focused on the short-term.  Things are good this week and things were good last week, so there is nothing to worry about, right?

    Unfortunately, economic reality is not going to change even if all of us try to ignore it.  Those that are willing to take an honest look at what is coming down the road are very troubled.  For example, Bill Gross of PIMCO says that his firm sees “bubbles everywhere”…

    We see bubbles everywhere, and that is not to be dramatic and not to suggest they will pop immediately. I just suggested in the bond market with a bubble in treasuries and bubble in narrow credit spreads and high-yield prices, that perhaps there is a significant distortion there. Having said that, it suggests that as long as the FED and Bank of Japan and other Central Banks keep writing checks and do not withdraw, then the bubble can be supported as in blowing bubbles. They are blowing bubbles. When that stops there will be repercussions.

    And unfortunately, it is not just the United States that has a bubble economy.  In fact, the gigantic financial bubble over in Japan may burst before our own financial bubble does.  The following is from a recent article by Graham Summers

    First and foremost, Japan is the second largest bond market in the world. If Japan’s sovereign bonds continue to fall, pushing rates higher, then there has been a tectonic shift in the global financial system. Remember the impact that Greece had on asset prices? Greece’s bond market is less than 3% of Japan’s in size.

    For multiple decades, Japanese bonds have been considered “risk free.” As a result of this, investors have been willing to lend money to Japan at extremely low rates. This has allowed Japan’s economy, the second largest in the world, to putter along marginally.

    So if Japanese bonds begin to implode, this means that:

    1)   The second largest bond market in the world is entering a bear market (along with commensurate liquidations and redemptions by institutional investors around the globe).

    2)   The second largest economy in the world will collapse (along with the impact on global exports).

    Both of these are truly epic problems for the financial system.

    And of course the entire global financial system is a giant bundle of debt, risk and leverage at this point.  We have never seen anything like this in world history.  When you step back and take a good, hard look at the numbers, they truly are staggering.  The following statistics are from one of my previous articles entitled “Why Is The World Economy Doomed? The Global Financial Pyramid Scheme By The Numbers“…

    $70,000,000,000,000 – The approximate size of total world GDP.

    $190,000,000,000,000 – The approximate size of the total amount of debt in the entire world.  It has nearly doubled in size over the past decade.

    $212,525,587,000,000 – According to the U.S. government, this is the notional value of the derivatives that are being held by the top 25 banks in the United States.  But those banks only have total assets of about 8.9 trillion dollars combined.  In other words, the exposure of our largest banks to derivatives outweighs their total assets by a ratio of about 24 to 1.

    $600,000,000,000,000 to $1,500,000,000,000,000 – The estimates of the total notional value of all global derivatives generally fall within this range.  At the high end of the range, the ratio of derivatives to global GDP is more than 21 to 1.

    The financial meltdown that happened back in 2008 should have been a wake up call for the nations of the world.  They should have corrected the mistakes that happened so that nothing like that would ever happen again.  Unfortunately, nothing was fixed.  Instead, our politicians and the central bankers became obsessed with reinflating the system.  They piled up even more debt, recklessly printed tons of money and kicked the can down the road for a few years.  In the process, they made our long-term problems even worse.  The following is a recent quote from John Williams of

    The economic and systemic solvency crises of the last eight years continue. There never was an actual recovery following the economic downturn that began in 2006 and collapsed into 2008 and 2009. What followed was a protracted period of business stagnation that began to turn down anew in second- and third-quarter 2012. The official recovery seen in GDP has been a statistical illusion generated by the use of understated inflation in calculating key economic series (see Public Comment on Inflation). Nonetheless, given the nature of official reporting, the renewed downturn likely will gain recognition as the second-dip in a double- or multiple-dip recession.

    What continues to unfold in the systemic and economic crises is just an ongoing part of the 2008 turmoil. All the extraordinary actions and interventions bought a little time, but they did not resolve the various crises. That the crises continue can be seen in deteriorating economic activity and in the panicked actions by the Federal Reserve, where it proactively is monetizing U.S. Treasury debt at a pace suggestive of a Treasury that is unable to borrow otherwise.

    And there are already lots of signs that the next economic downturn is rapidly approaching.

    For example, corporate revenues are falling at Wal-Mart, Proctor and Gamble, Starbucks, AT&T, Safeway, American Express and IBM.

    Would revenues at Wal-Mart be falling if the economy was getting better?

    U.S. jobless claims hit a six week high last week.  We aren’t in the danger zone yet, but once they hit 400,000 that will be a major red flag.

    And even though we are still in the “good times” relatively speaking, the federal government is already talking about tightening welfare programs.  In fact, there are proposals in Congress right now to make significant cuts to the food stamp program.

    If food stamps and other welfare programs get cut, that is going to make a lot of people very, very angry.  And that anger and frustration will get even worse when the next economic downturn strikes and millions of people start losing their jobs and their homes.

    What we are witnessing right now is the calm before the storm.  Let us hope that it lasts for as long as possible so that we can have more time to prepare.

    Unfortunately, this bubble of false hope will not last forever.  At some point it will end, and then the pain will begin.

    Michael T. Snyder is a graduate of the University of Florida law school and he worked as an attorney in the heart of Washington D.C. for a number of years. Today, Michael is best known for his work as the publisher of The Economic Collapse Blog. If you want to know what things in America are going to look like in a few years read his new book The Beginning of the End.


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      1. The welfare checks and subsidies will just keep on coming, the debt will never be paid. The printing presses will just keep turning out currencies all over the planet in order to maintain the system. If it crashes anywhere, One Thousand Old Dollars equals One New Dollar, and it starts all over again.

        • Why Policy Has Failed

          “Simply put, THERE IS NO FAITH IN THE SYSTEM … real underlying faith and trust in the system, as opposed to the confidence born from economic steroid injections or entitlements. There is more going on than a temporary lull in animal spirits that current fiscal and monetary policy will cure.”

          “Something has to happen to restore our collective faith. And more short term fixes and empty promises during campaign speeches and the State of the Union addresses are not where to do it.”

          “We have ended up with a system where the worst of the risk takers have the ability to take the most risk and are currently taking it at extreme levels.”

          Porter Stansberry: There is now a 100% chance of a market collapse

          “The U.S. bond market – particularly junk bonds – is going to crash. When this crash occurs, it will be the largest destruction of wealth in history. There has never been a bigger bubble in U.S. bonds.”

          • KY Mom, the restoration of our collective faith will only be restored when responsible parties(bankers, politicans, etc..) are arrested and serving time.

            • Sorry to go off topic, but why the f#ck is Janet Napolitino “touring Oklahoma”?


              Is this disaster not supposedley FEMA’s job?

              WTH does the DHS have to do with natural disasters? I thought they were after “domestic terrorists” and “homeland defense”?

              DHS says they will go neighborhood to neighborhood in Oklahoma to make sure they have what they need. WTF!?!

              • Outlaw,
                DHS and FEMA are under the same cabinet agency, DHS is the operational wing . FEMA is the organizational wing . DHS supplies the Force protection, Communications, relief supplies and transportation assets, ( operations) FEMA is basically the logistical support component. Since the war on terror DHS is used to augment state National Guard units in disaster recovery , due to many national guard deployed overseas fighting the war on terror a lot of man power is not as available as has been in the past. DHS does more than preventing Terror attacks it provides assets that states need help with in disaster recovery that may be difficult to obtain in the affected areas.
                this was implemented shortly after hurricane Katrina to correct problems encountered by FEMA during this natural disaster.

                Semper Fi 8541

                • TY Night breaker, this clarifies some for me, but I just still have a hang-up on Janet Napolitno/DHS being brought into the state for a “natural disaster”. Am I alone in this feeling?

                  • no your not alone i thought the same thing!! what the hell is she doing there. this world is in a bad bad place.

                  • Outlaw, It is kind of unsettling considering some elements inside of DHS are over reaching to the point of going rogue. There is kind of a Civil War with in the agency with the Obama elements.
                    all that supposing ammo hoarding by DHS exists only on paper for future purchase orders , let’s face it DC is broke nothing is being approved within agencies, there has not been a budget in the last 4 plus years!

                    Semper Fi 8541

          • World Financial Collapse? Not yet. There are wars to be fought in the name of Globalism by the NWO and these wars will be fought using YOUR military and YOUR money. YOU will pay for their Agenda (21).

            The Gangster Banksters of course, (and me) will own gold when the Reset Button is pushed. Get some. Someone here said a year ago that gold could drop as low as $1200 per ounce.

            Who was that Masked Man? 🙂

            • DK: You’ve never been in the military and you’re probably not married either, or you wouldn’t persist in this nonesense about the NWO and our military taking over the entire nation , blah, blah, blah. A large percentage of military families DON’T live on military bases because there’s not enough housing, hence the housing allowence for many service members. Any serviceman/woman with family living outside is not going to leave their family exposed while they go off and fight for this NWO. Now half of our military is in the guard/reserve and they are all living outside, so very few, if any married service members are going to even show up. The same goes for LEOs. In a real SHTF senario, all married cops and service members living off base will stay home to protect their own. By this time the dollar will be dead, so what exactly will they pay those that do show up? And since the economy will have ground to a halt, what could they buy even if they had some gold or silver? This NWO you fear will be stillborn.

              • Gregory8; I am a Viet Nam Vet with citations and a recommendation for Meritorious Combat Promotion to Sargent as an ex-Marine, prior to an early exit from Nam and an early out under Honorable conditions. I know that because my DD-214 says so. I can also recite my service number as easily as my SSN.

                I have been divorced twice. Once the gays have an opportunity to marry they will soon learn that it is not all that it is cracked up to be and they will be in divorce court faster than you can say “Judge Judy”.

                It doesn’t matter where the military lives or whether it is composed of volunteers, draftees, or National Guard. OUR military IS and WILL continue to be used as an instrument of the NWO PTB to globalize the world according to THEIR ideal of what the world should be.

                If you can’t recognize that, then I suggest you take your head out of your ass and look around. This is not the America OUR Founding Fathers intended.

                The dollar will not be dead. It will be worth much less relative to other currencies. It will take its place in a basket of currencies supported by precious metal: primarily Gold and Platinum.

                Buy gold on the dips.

              • @Gregory: Its not that symple its not like the NWO will just say “hi. We order u to go and shoot your own family”, and them the military will respond “Hell no”. If everything colapse (Witch is busy happening) there will be riots, people will burn things and hurt other people thats in their way. The Military or who ever will be called to keep the pease and protect amerika from the angry bad rioter that doesn’t get foodstamps anymore
                In a economic collapse one day u will have a job the next your job will be gone, if unemployment rises so does crime, becouse u have to feed your family somehow if you aren’t prepared and dont grow your own food and don’t get anything from the goverment u have two choices beg or steal,

              • Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

                “War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

                I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we’ll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

                I wouldn’t go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

                There isn’t a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its “finger men” to point out enemies, its “muscle men” to destroy enemies, its “brain men” to plan war preparations, and a “Big Boss” Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

                It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

                I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

                I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

                During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

                Funny how all these years later nothing has changed

          • @ KY Mom ~

            I have the perception that this all goes way beyond a lack of faith in a flawed economic systems. No one that I have talked with has expressed the slightest bit of faith or confidence in the good, honest intentions of our government towards its own citizens. Put bluntly, most of us just flat out no longer trust the bastards representing any level of our government.

            It becomes VERY hard to govern when the government no longer enjoys the faith and trust of those whom they are supposed to be governing. When the government looses the respect of the people, then the end of that particular government usually isn’t far off.

            How this is all going to play out will be very interesting to observe. I am hearing of more and more folks becoming “refusenicks” every day. They simply ignore the various levels of government wherever they can.

            We really do live in interesting times.

          • Howdy KY!

            Tell THEM ALL about it M’am…t’aint long now…


        • The same government that slaughters over a million babies in utero per year in the US and has no problem murdering women and children in collateral damage through acts of terrorism on other nation states redefines hypocrisy with their cries of saving the lives of little children by attempting to abolish our 2nd amendment.

          Mac’s other post pointed out that they act as though their militaristic war on raw milk farmers is for our safety while we wander the isles at the local grocery store past the FDA approved foods filled with GMO, preservatives, and High Fructose Corn Syrup. They control the sale of alcohol and tobacco and infuse our water with fluoride. Their vitriol for herbs in the private market showcases their disdain for self-reliance while they accept bribes from the saccharine lobbyists who spray the toxin on the public in every possible direction.

          They preach “tolerance” for all in the name of being politically correct and fair, but then are intolerant to those who question tyranny under free speech and categorize it as “hate speech” and “politically incorrect”.

          Inalienable rights are granted by God and are irrevocable by man. Our constitution recognizes these in the Bill of Rights while the rest of the document defines and limits federal authority per the agreement between the states (colonies).

          While the masses may not be on board yet, we need to be on record as nullifying all “laws” “codes” “statutes” and “acts” that are illegitimate prima facie. The Declaration established the Colonists’ independence from Great Britain from that point on. But from that point, it was up to the Colonists to defend it by whatever means were necessary.

          • Sterling that is the best summary I have ever read. Well done!

        • It’s going to be Moore, Oklahoma for the whole country
          when that time comes along and flattens us.

        • If only that was true

        • Impossible.

          No, I fear what’s coming a lot worse than that.

          I mean I get it, from the 1%er’s point of view. Nationalism led to massive wars, so end nationalism and make everyone financially dependent on everyone else to such an extent that if one falls, all fall.

          Sounded like a really good plan. I mean… ignore for a moment the man in the street and just look at it all macro level like they do and I mean I get the general idea. It wasn’t a horrible plan as far as plans go…

          But they failed to take resource constraints into account I fear.

          So now… guess what… slammed headfirst back into nationalism at 500 mph.

          Except this time add nuclear weapons and genetically engineered viruses.

          This… is… a problem all right.

          Police state mentality making a bit more sense now? Not that I’m happy with it (quite the opposite) but it seems like an act of desperation. A mad scramble for a contingency plan.

          Worried? Oh yeah.

          • Theguy, what tptb are doing is kind of like the creel(the people) moving in all directions while the whales(tptb)are thinning (robbing) us out of our rights, finances, health, property, you name it.

            • DRD5508 Revalation says a new ROME will come out of
              Europe where did UNITED STATES come from?

        • When,when,when,……..
          I’ve seen hundreds of articles on this,with no predictions on a date!
          Even a between this and this date……..your killing me with suspense !
          I’m very very tiered ,enough, if anyone could nail this down to sometime this,or next year,I’d be very grateful ..

          No guesses please!

          • It’s going to take a lot is my guess. A lot more than you’d think. It will plow on in some form of spectacular near impossible illogic… but when it goes it will be quick a-la Cyprus.

            Of course, this is just me spouting back the news in a sense so… eh doubt I’m right.

          • When is a induvidual matter. the collapse is already happening in some places there is no specific date. u wont wake up tomorow and someone anounce over the radio the collapse is today banks are now closed. The colapsse happens to u when enough people around u or u have lost your job and cant get a new job and cant support your family, everyone in the world is connected its a global economy everything is going down in slow motion at first and by time most people open their eyes it will be to late

          • Every day that goes by, is another day to prepare. Never stop. Love the sight, and have learned a lot in the short time since I found it.

        • No, Smokey, I don’t think that it will all start again.

          First, there is no backing for the US dollar, so maybe the new dollars can be equated to 1000 old dollars but no backing means just that. Nothing relates in an organized devaluation except people who own college loans, etc.

          Secondly, the USA is not really a nation. It is a “federation” of states. There will be secessions and nullifications all over the place. That will simply devalue whatever federalism which may be in a residue.

          Even now, many states and even communities are setting up alternate currencies.

          Also, there probably will be major unrest in metro areas. The arming of an internal army (DHS) reveals that the federal people are very practical. They want to maintain control for the hands that feed them. More unrest in the offing.

          Finally, how are the logistics of servicing basic needs of people in million and up population cities be maintained? Very precipitously if at all!

        • Why would the financial system of Japan or the US ever collapse? It won’t. TPTB will continue to inflate. Who cares what the amount of debt is anyways? Fiat debt is just an illusion anyway – so it doesn’t really matter whether they say the debt / Derivatives is 200 trillion or a qualdrillion – it just doesn’t matter because its not real.

          Why not just mint the trillion dollar coin and be done with all this fearmongering and superstition?

          I have had enough of being scared of other people’s nightmares. Let’s act like adults here

      2. The matrix is falling apart. It will get worse before it gets better as they get more desperate.

        • I wish it would go ahead and collapse. I’m sickened by this current, corrupt system.

          • For those of you that are old enough to remember what a Pyramid party was like? Everybody was there was full of high energy just Giddy they were on the 4 line or the 8 line and of course the one guy that was on the top and you were with your thousand bucks looking at a spot in the 32 line. All of the well-dressed good looking people were so friendly to you all the while urging you to just put it in and do it. Keep in mind they were a lot closer to being paid and miles ahead of YOU!
            The Market is a lot like that, everybody is super excited and all ginned up about the daily record setting highs and making a butt load of money and you should just get in it too. When they think they have a truck load of Mom and Pops retirements, guess what?
            They call it a correction, WHOOPS! The Dow drops like an F4 with a cold engine at 30,000 feet and NO wings. They call it a correction, I call it fu##ing Fraud. You can’t beat a high frequency trading program, not even if you are sitting on a computer looking at it all day long. Throw your shit in there and just kiss it good-by. It will be out of your hands and you will be poor, down the road, forgotten by your Broker, and you will be kicking beer cans and reading Barbasol signs.

          • GV, the crooks(tptb) want people to give up, don’t. The longer a take over takes, the harder it is for them to take over. Us baby boomers are aging and so are they.

            • @DRD5508,

              I don’t consider being ready for it as “giving up.” And I believe the opposite of what you said… the longer until it collapses, the easier it will be for a takeover by them. They’ve got young fresh soldiers, likely from all over the globe, and increasing powerful technology/surveillance/weaponry, all of which decrease a family’s or community’s chances of successful resistance. I believe, the sooner the better.

              • GV, just stating an opinion. You could very well be right, my point is something is holding them back and most of us are looking for a false flag a spark for tptb to take over full force. Yet none of us have the full picture but we do see trends and events that illustrate something bad is coming our way.
                Young soldiers they do have, but they aren’t trained the way we were and there is a high rate of suicide and disrespect for rank and authority with these young soldiers. Don’t get me wrong, there are some outstanding troops that over shadowed by the large number of undisciplined ones.
                When tptb do hit us it will be: Prices of
                New Laws…….Bam
                Gun grab…….Bam
                Our accounts…Bam
                Our rights…..Bam
                Phone service..Bam
                And many other things. So much in place yet tptb haven’t hit the send button.

          • Well, yes, it will sooner or later.

            But it will definitely not be all fun and games.

      3. Better have something stable to hang onto ’cause when it pops, its gonna blow

      4. We keep warning everyone, but nobody listens.

        • Normalcy Bias is part of the reason people don’t listen, however ignorance and stupidity are the main reasons.

          • Here is a man that speaks the truth!

      5. We have been talking about this for years, that’s why we all prep, but it seems like the ignorance of the general population can keep it at bay.
        Sometimes I think Cypher had it right, I wish I could return to my ignorance. It WAS bliss.

        • Yeah it was.

          “I can’t go back, can I?”

          -“No. But if you could… would you really want to?”

          Um… YES. Dammit.

          Like I’m really going to be able to change the outcome either way. Sure I am. Not.

      6. This is only one of many reasons why we prep. the house of cards can come crashing down at any time and there will be no restoring it. Everyone get everything you need ASAP. braveheart

      7. I personally know a lot of communists. (No, I’m not kidding.)Some of them are internationally known political economists, and they’re not stupid guys.

        Every one of them has been arguing that the capitalist system is going to collapse on very much the same logic: it’s an inherently unstable system based on global inequality and the assumption that an impossible level of growth is can be sustained.

        I tend to think that we’ll find ways of moderating the excesses of capitalism, and will be able to keep the system running despite some cyclical insecurity.

        You and the communists may be right though. It could be that the system is simply unsustainable. In that case, the shit will most certainly hit the fan.

        You should know that the communists have contingencies in place, they are collectively planning to put their alternative system into place during the collapse.

        • The communists are the reason why the capitalist system is going to collapse. The capitalist system is supposed to be based on free enterprise. That has been done away with a long time ago by way of tax policy and regulation. Think of it this way. Capitalism is based on natural law and not everyone wins. Communism is counter to natural law. It claims everyone wins where only those at the very top (party members) win and everyone else loses. It has been shown time and again to fail. But is has integrated itself into our system and will be the cause of our collapse. So when our system does implode don’t blame it on capitalism…blame it on communism which really began to ramp under FDR. It is appropriate it all comes to a crashing end under Obama.

          • I’m not defending communism at all.

            I also don’t agree that communism has infiltrated every aspect of our economy. Knowing communists as I do, I also know that they’re largely irrelevant to American politics and that they can’t figure out why.

            Keynesian economics came to dominate in the United States up until about 1980, and that is capitalism. Keynes stood in clear opposition to the socialists who wanted government to dominate business, and to the communists who wanted there to only be government.

            In the 1980’s neoliberal economics made a resurgence, and since then the market has been rapidly deregulated. It is not a coincidence that the gap between the very wealthy and the very poor has grown dramatically since then.

            Barack Obama is a Keynsian capitalist. The far right in the U.S. likes to demonize Keynesians by calling them communists.

            There are no relevant communists here.

            • The problem with the economy isn’t ideological or based on economic theory. The corporations getting tax codes written for their benefit aren’t following any economic theory besides greed and short term thinking. The theory is greed.

          • food shortage….cjicks will trade sex for food. ha joking here…. troll.

          • The reason that the Free market system will colapse is becouse of labour prices not anything else. If u consume a lot (give out money) u also have to produce the same or more(make money). The jobs thats outsource for cheap chinees and indian labour creats a gap people dont have that much money anymore so now they use debt. Debt is a promise to pay more money at a later stage and huge volumes of debt is not sustainable If most people fail to repay their debt what do u think will happen?

        • If capitalism were able to run in a truly free market, we wouldn’t be experiencing these boom and bust cycles to the extend that we are experiencing. The bubble problems stem from corporate fascism and crony capitalism wherein corporate monopolies use government to institute forced and heavy regulated markets on the population by “law”, all while defying the simple processes of supply vs. demand. Couple that with the insidiously planned currency of the Fed, and you have a recipe for war, slavery, and revolution.

          • Nope. The more we deregulate markets, the more extreme are their cyclical fluctuations and resulting market corrections. That is well documented.

            Freedom Fighter is blaming the “communist” turn on FDR, and that’s no accident. There was very little regulation leading up to the crash of 1929 and subsequent 10 year depression.So naturally, FDR could make a convincing argument that we ought to regulate the markets better.

            • Wrong Selkirk….

              The regulation of the markets began with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. That is what set the stage for the Great Depression.

              There was another severe depression…or recession, I think around 1920…when Harding was in office. But unlike Roosevelt…and even Hoover before him…instead of attempting to use government intervention to fix the problem, Harding let the free market resolve it. The result was a much shorter crisis….and one you don’t hear much about as a result. Coolidge pretty much continued Harding’s economic policies.

              The Great Depression came about directly because of the actions of the Federal Reserve.

              Roosevelt’s policies did nothing but prolong the Depression….something that even Roosevelt’s Treasury Secretary (Morganthu),freely admitted.

              • That’s a revisionist history. I’m very familiar with those claims, but they are problematic.

                • They aren’t problematic…they are fact.

                  There was a deflationary depression (or recession) in 1920. Harding did little to try to mitigate it one way or the other. It worked itself out.

                  Who knows…had Hoover and later Roosevelt done the same thing, the Great Depression might not have been so “great”.

                  My reference to Morgenthau is factual. Here’s his exact quote:

                  (Look on page 41 of the pdf document)


                  If you want to see revisionist history…..pickup a high-school or college history text book that’s been published in the last 40 years or so.

            • After reading “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism” and the “The Politically Incorrect guide to Socialism” (among many others), I will argue that it is a well established fact that it is government regulation and central planning that cause the booms and bust through monetary policy of the FED. When industries have the flexibility to act of their own accord, the consumers and end users actions based on supply and demand determine market equilibrium.

              • Yeah, that’s what those books will tell you. THey are published by Regnery Publishing, which is an right-wing ideological press.

                THat’s like saying that you read something in Mother Jones.

                • Point for point and fact for fact, it is what it is regardless of pro liberal spin.

                • Part of your problem Selkirk, is that you have been confused by years of leftist indoctrination.

                  Here’s a good start to get your thinking straight. The concepts in this video are foundational. Fail to grasp the principle illustrated here and everything else will become fuzzy.


              • When industry can act of its own accord it bribes politicians or simply acts in its own interest, contrary to the interest of a competing or weaker interest. This gingerbread house you describe where everything would run perfectly if only there was no regulations depends on the absence of corruption and power plays.

                Industry actually favors most regulation. At the lowest scale, it can work like this: A city taking bids for a construction project writes the bid requirements specifically to suit one contractor–a crony–so that no other contractor can qualify. On the more legal side of things it works like this: Building contractors favor Americans with Disabilities construction and planning codes because it means every single building, parking lot, or sidewalk has to be retrofitted or rebuilt. One business, the small restaurant owner, for example, feels victimized by these regulations, but another business, building contractors, has guaranteed income.

                Or: The legal profession favors any regulations regarding hiring and firing practices. It sucks if your the business owner who fires an incompetent employee gets sued, but it’s great if your the lawyer working the case. And if you’re the lawyer, it doesn’t matter who your representing because you’re making money.

                Another example: A professional organization–massage therapists, for example–ask for regulation to make it more difficult for a competing industry–massage parlors, for example–to stay in business. So they ask for licensing and minimum training hour requirements to be put in place.

                Or, the tobacco and alcohol and cotton industries push for laws outlawing cannabis and hemp.

                Or, Monsanto works with the US State Department and the IMF to ensure that third world countries won’t qualify for loans to farmers unless the farmers use Monsanto seed.

                Why assume booms and busts are a problem caused by government? Booms and busts are not an “evil” of a system if you are one of the mega-wealthy. These people know the market and are able to manipulate the market and ride the wave, coming out even wealthier than before. They send their kids to liberal Ivy League schools. They don’t give a hoot about conservative economic theory.

        • The communists (one of which now occupies the oval office) are actively working to bring about this collapse, and have been for the last 100 years.

          The global elite are using communism as a vehicle to install their neo-feudal society that they intend to implement fully following TSHTF collapse that we all so often refer to as approaching.

          Their strategies are laid out for all to see…the Hegelian Dialectic…..Cloward-Piven Strategy…..the writings of Saul Alinsky and Carol Quigley, to name a few.

          This collapse is not the fault of capitalism and free-markets….it is the result of the perversion of capitalism and the free-markets.

          The ONLY solution is a return to the free-market and sound money that is not based upon debt.

          • That’s what every neoliberal economist has been saying since the 1960’s.

            Karl Marx was analyzing the result of unchecked laissez-faire capitalism in Great Britain in the 19th Century, and that’s one reason that he though the system would ultimately fail. He did not anticipate that the excesses of the free market would be moderated as they were in the 100 years that followed.

            Completely free markets are fine, provided that you think the corporations have your best interests at heart.

            The balance of power between government and business interests is the only thing that keeps either one of them from destroying the rest of us.

            • Again….the corporations in Britain were hand-in-hand with the British Crown.

              Hardly free-markets…..more like corporatism.

              Again….Marx used the straw-man argument….create the boogie-man and name it capitalism, and then attack it.

              I would suggest you read some Hayek.

              • I have read Hayek, and Friedman, and Von Mises.

                And I’ve read lots of other stuff, which may be where we part company.

                I’m not thumbs downing you because you disagree with me, by the way. Disagreement is fair play.

                • Agreed. I haven’t red-thumbed you either.

                  We just have a fundamental disagreement.

                  Just bear in mind, that the political left has framed the debate and for the most part, been in control of the political science and economics departments of most of our institutions of higher learning for the last 60+ years.

                  And I would submit….it’s a huge part of the reason why we are in the mess we are in.

                  Leftist philosophy ALWAYS leads back to statism. They are inseparable.

                  • This thing won’t let me respond to you.

                  • That time it did.

                    I wrote a fairly long reply to the revisionist thing, but it won’t post. Now I’m short on time.

                    It’s all good if you’re open to discussion. That’s cool.

                    I probably agree with a lot of your criticisms of academia. More on that later. That said, don’t be too quick to dismiss anyone as indoctrinated. A few people are left who sill do their own thinking.

          • “This collapse is not the fault of capitalism and free-markets….it is the result of the perversion of capitalism and the free-markets.”

            yes WALT , it is GREED , cronie capitolism , the fed printing money intended only for the banks and proping up the stock market .
            capitalism works , but requires honesty and integrity .

            who said that the constitution was written for a moral people ? well , we need more moral people .

            • I actually agree with you completely, Hammer.

              Free markets could work perfectly if the actions of participants were controlled by a clear moral system.In such a circumstance, of course, the markets are not free.

              There must be checks to greed, whether they come from government or from an extra-governmental ideology.

              Laissez-faire capitalism is amoral by definition. It entirely depends on the maximization of profit by calculation.

              • selkirk – we have an excellent system of checks and balance , my point was that it needs to be implemented by a moral and just group of elected officials.

                the system still works , we just need to shock the hell outta washington and clean house .
                wall street needs to know that we will no longer allow the manipulation and every damn lobbyist needs to hang.
                simple as that.
                the markets will be free when we free ourselves of the corruption. oh , and NAFTA of course.

            • That was John Adams I believe who wrote that.

              • Yep. Not convincing. He lived at a time when people had not yet seen what happens in fully free markets. He was also speaking on the assumption that people were governed by a moral system, rather than simple calculation.

                What I’m saying is based on economic analyses conducted in the last two centuries, and especially the 20th-21st Centuries. We more facts on which we may base our analyses today.

                • hammer and Walt, Slekirk is basically right in what he is asying. He isn’t for communist, he is pointing out a few facts. The thought is that ‘capitalism’ (whether morally run or not) has allowed us more opportunities in making choices freely which is the defining difference between the two (communism/capitalism) freedom to choose for ones self. Monopolies limit choices hence we get regulations (supposedly for that purpose) to allow fair competion.
                  We, as Americans identify more with capitalism than socialism (communism) because of our standard of living which is what the socialist(Obama and other communist) are doing to us. Lowering our standard of living though unpatriotic/unAmerican trade treats, movement of jobs over seas and immigration.
                  Capitalism as a monopoly can very easily become communism.

                  • ..make that ‘trade treaties’.

                  • I’m glad someone sees I’m not a damned communist. Lol.

                    Yeah, the Cold War killed communism in the U.S. Go to Europe. They have loads of communists. I even took pictures of the communists when I was over there.

                    Different thing.

                  • I never said you were a communist Selkirk…I just said that you are making some of their arguments.

                    For DRD5508….Monopolies in a free-market economy are a perversion, and almost always are the result of cronyism and government corruption in one way or another….hence….they are no longer capitalist.

                    The difference between communism and the free-market system is more than simply a matter of choice. These two systems are not just two sides of the same coin.

                  • @selkirk…

                    The cold war did not kill communism in the U.S.

                    It is alive and well on the university campuses across this country….and on both the east and left coasts.

            • Not ENTIRELY hammerhead,

              …we SIMPLY NEED LESS “Amoral’ Ones…a LOT LESS…Hint, Hint, Wink Wink…


          • enslave the “elite”.

        • Except the system we have now isn’t capitalism.

          It can more accurately be described as fascist statism.

          • I’ve heard it described as “Corporatism”

            Check my post further down with the youtube link.

            Informative….and very true I believe…even if it did come from a movie.

        • “You should know that the communists have contingencies in place, they are collectively planning to put their alternative system into place during the collapse.”

          Not with out a fight they won’t, not saying you are wrong, just saying that there are still enough Cold War Veterans and those raised during the Cold War who “Understand” that Freedom, Liberty & Rights can not coexist with Communism.

          They may try, hell they are trying it now but sooner or later something will give whether we want it or not, yea the storm is coming.

          • Oh, I agree, Luther. We’ll kick their asses so long as we see them coming. (Yeah, I’m on your side.)

            I keep saying that actual communists are basically irrelevant. I don’t think that they would be any more effective in an apocalypse than they are today. I’m just saying that they are making plans and that we ought to take note of that.

            Any basis for organization in a SHTF situation is better than none. I think that a lot of people prep away while ignoring the fact that organization will make the difference in a shitstorm.

            I also kind of wanted to point out that the apocalypse makes strange bedfellows. When the millenarian right is making the same predictions as the communist left… well, I find that interesting.

        • Yes, communists are not stupid people, but definitely not wise

          At any rate, those people like everyone else are extrapolating from where we are today. More likely, think the dark ages just after the fall of Rome. It will be radical decentralization. Too bad if you’re in downtown Rome (or NYC, D.C., Chic, LA, etc)

        • did i get banned?

      8. Great article. Only thing I don’t like about these articles is that they never state what one should do to protect oneself. Gold/Food/Arms/Water/Shelter?

        It would be nice to read an article like this and at the end have the author say, ‘you need to do this (if you haven’t)’.

        Either way, I say let’s git ‘er dunn. The sooner the crash the faster we can clean out the scum and hang those that need it.

        • 1#. always food and water w/filters.
          2#. ammo and any other self protection.
          3#. barter items.
          4#. shelter.. find something away from cities and pay it off.

          my take on PM… could become illegal to possess again, so you might have to sit on them for a while or only use on the black market….. so only after the above is done.

          Just my opinion….

          • then there is …

            communication, radios ham & salellite, 2-way hand held, CB,antenas, batteries, harden your electronics,…

            power, generator diesel gas and propane yes all three, solar, wind…. Oh and wood..

            the list is endless……….

            This is what we do…. Once a month turn the power off for a whole weekend. No ice in the ice chest waiting, no generator… This is what you have to be ready for, practice…..

      9. Has anybody read Snyder’s book, “The Beginning of the End” ?

        • Not yet! I see it was published just 8 days ago…

      10. Here is a good question..

        “What if we are all wrong”…And nothing happens and Life just goes on?


        We all haven’t mutated from monsanto or melted from gama rays yet have we?

        Think people!

        • And what makes that a “good question”?

          Sounds like you just need to take the blue pill…go back to sleep and pretend nothing is going to happen.

          Like 90% of the rest of the population.

        • Now that is a prime example of normalcy bias.

      11. Real skills
        Real assets
        Real friends

        Those are the Holy Triumvirate WTSHTF

      12. ~~For example, corporate revenues are falling at Wal-Mart, Proctor and Gamble, Starbucks, AT&T, Safeway, American Express and IBM.~~

        Wonder why?? Twice I’ve been to chinamart for more jar lids for canning.
        Their shelf is sooooo bare; JIT is getting ridiculous.
        Garden season is here—where are the canning supplies??
        Back to topic–Mainstay is their only brand of lids at this store??
        I have read bad reviews of the jars, so why would I buy the lids??
        Mason, made in USA.
        And no stackable freezer plastics; I got the only 3(sets of 4)they had.

        • You wally world doesn’t carry Ball ?

          • Mason, Ball, Kerr–all made by same company.
            Nope– and I hate chinamart with a passion.
            DG has lids.

        • One more note–the fricking freezer plastics are made in Egypt and the plastic sandwich keeper I bought for dh’s lunch ??…CHINA.
          How can we buy American made when there is no choice???

          • Almost everything is made in the USA. It just costs more because people in the USA can’t survive on $3 a day.

            If you shop at Walmart, you’re supporting the outsourcing of American manufacturing jobs. Most people could care less about supporting American workers if buying from China will save them $20 a week.

            Politics is always subservient to economics.

            • And if you opened manufacturing back up to a free market in this country, we could compete with China. But by the time the Federal gov, the state gov, local gov, unions steal their cut, and all the fees and fines and licensing and certifications are purchased (which eventually MUST come from the price of labor), there is no way for us to compete with workers in China. The worst and least cost effective thing I ever did in business was hire my employees legally and play by the rules of the Bureau of Labor and Industry.

              • The reason that the Chinese can produce so cheaply is that their people largely live in poverty.

                If the entire population of China were raised to the standard of living of the lower middle class in the U.S. The world would run out of resources in six months.

                • Look, people are just entirely out of touch with reality here.

                  You’re giving a thumbs down to reality.

                  • Yeah, as I read back over this shit it’s clear that most of the people reading this don’t have even the most rudimentary understanding of history, politics, or economics.

                    Trying to speak here is pretty much a waste of time. Fortunately, people listen to what I have to say in real life. I should make the most of that, rather than spend time venting my misgivings about the system in this medium.

                    Think about this though: you’ve taken someone who was 80% in agreement with you and made a 100% enemy of him. That’s why Barack Obama is president in the first place.

                    I’ll influence hundreds of people this year. You wasted an opportunity.

                    I’ll leave you to it.

                  • You’re right selkirk,time for you to skeedaddle.You’re way too gad damn thin skinned for this site.Put on your YES WE CAN tee shirt and git you some commie lovin…

                  • @Selkirk….

                    I thought we were having a good discussion here.

                    I haven’t red-thumbed you. I don’t agree with you on a lot of things..but I haven’t red-thumbed you.

                    We just have a fundamental difference in our understanding of what the solutions to these problems are. You seem to advocate more government to solve these problems. And I maintain that government IS the problem.

                    I like what Thomas Sowell said…

                    “Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good.”

                • Actually less true than you know, most small products these days have almost no labor cost in them. Like the jar lids, they are made by the millions without any significant labor input. Per lid it’s nothing, Bet it isn’t 2 cents per pack. Issue is, if I build a plant in China, I have No EPA, OSHA, Permits; and if I give the whole thing to a shell Co. I can expense it off How do you think a multi Billion Co like GE can pay no taxes.

            • if you live in a rural town where Walmart is the ONLY place to shop, you have no choice. My tiny town had a nice little Main Street with mom and pop stores… Walmart came in, dropped prices, appealed to those living on handouts, and “bye bye” went the locally run stores. Those that are living on handouts don’t have pride, care, or concern for anyone else. So now I must shop at Walmart or drive the 200 miles to the nearest “city” for a bag of rice. It’s not always that plain and simple.

        • My local True Value Hardware Store has plenty on canning supplies. No shortage there.

      13. ~~~If food stamps and other welfare programs get cut~~

        Think that’ll improve chinamart’s revenue??

        • JJ if food stamps and other entitlements get cut you will have an entitlement zombie apocalypse. The chaos from rioting, looting, thievery, and killing will be of biblical proportions. That’s why I prep and maintain arms because we’re only 72 hours away from chaos at all times.

      14. We don’t have a capitalist system….we have a fascist system where the corporations actually run things, and get most of the breaks in their favor. We haven’t had true capitalism in 100 years or more, so how the heck would anyone know if it works or not ??

        Seemed to work fairly well until govt ( corporate govt ) severely hampered the ability of any single person from getting ahead…..licensing, insurances, permits, accounting requirements….crap….just TRY to start a small business today…they will eat you alive because they don’t like competition and have the ability to regulate you out of the marketplace.

        About the only good thing you can say about fascism is the products and services produced under it are just slightly less shoddy than the “C” system below.

        Communism ?

        Ahahahahahaaa…..a system based on the violation of human nature…..that I will work as hard for you ( the collective ‘you’ ) as I will for me and mine…..which of course is simply horse manure. I will do the least I can get by with for you, and when everybody finally joins everybody else under the shade tree, no plowing gets done and the fool system falls apart.

        This is the reason almost every single “commune” type system fails….heck, even the Shakers died out people….99% of humans have a lazy streak in them a mile wide, and are quite willing to let anyone “with ability” provide for “their needs”. ( “From those with ability to those with need” Karl Marx )

        No, the only way communism ‘works’ is if you use the same gun barrel the fascists use to enforce the system, which the guys at the top are totally immune too.

        • @Anonymous….

          Your quote:

          “We don’t have a capitalist system….we have a fascist system where the corporations actually run things, and get most of the breaks in their favor. We haven’t had true capitalism in 100 years or more, so how the heck would anyone know if it works or not ??”


          That’s what I’ve been trying to say. The left uses the straw-man argument that “capitalism has failed”, when capitalism…or as I prefer to refer to it as….the free-markets…have never really been allowed to function.

          I like this quote by Ayn Rand:

          “For many decades, the leftists have been propagating the false dichotomy that the choice confronting the world is only: Communism or Fascism. A dictatorship of the left or of the alleged right–with the possibility of a free society, of capitalism, dismissed and obliterated, as if it had never existed.”

      15. We don’t have a capitalist system….we have a fascist system where the corporations actually run things, and get most of the breaks in their favor. We haven’t had true capitalism in 100 years or more, so how the heck would anyone know if it works or not ??

        Seemed to work fairly well until govt ( corporate govt ) severely hampered the ability of any single person from getting ahead…..licensing, insurances, permits, accounting requirements….crap….just TRY to start a small business today…they will eat you alive because they don’t like competition and have the ability to regulate you out of the marketplace.

        About the only good thing you can say about fascism is the products and services produced under it are just slightly less shoddy than the “C” system below.

        Communism ?

        Ahahahahahaaa…..a system based on the violation of human nature…..that I will work as hard for you ( the collective ‘you’ ) as I will for me and mine…..which of course is simply horse manure. I will do the least I can get by with for you, and when everybody finally joins everybody else under the shade tree, no plowing gets done and the fool system falls apart.

        This is the reason almost every single “commune” type system fails….heck, even the Shakers died out people….99% of humans have a lazy streak in them a mile wide, and are quite willing to let anyone “with ability” provide for “their needs”. ( “From those with ability to those with need” Karl Marx )

        No, the only way communism ‘works’ is if you use the same gun barrel the fascists use to enforce the system, which the guys at the top are totally immune too.

        • Bingo Andy.Can anybody anywhere think of somebody who wakes up in the morning and says”Ahhhh!What can I do to benefit the great masses today?”

        • Precisely. We have been living in fascism our whole lives with even more evil forces trying to enforce communism. Lets give capitalism a try! And not crony capitalism (fascism).

        • Capitalism is a system in which corporations run things.

          In fascist systems the government has much more power than the corporations.

          Who the hell ever said communism works? All I said was that communists think that capitalism doesn’t work, in spite of a fair amount of evidence to the contrary.

          • Well…you didn’t say it works Selkirk…but you stated what the communists have been saying for years…the communists have said capitalism doesn’t work. In so doing…they have created a straw-man argument…because what they argue against is not real capitalism…it is corporatism.

            Capitalism is not a system in which corporations run things. That’s the straw-man argument of which I speak.

            Fascism is a merger of corporations and the state. And that is THE problem we deal with today.

            Communism is state ownership and control of the means of production. While I do believe Obama…and those that surround him are communists…they are not opposed to using fascistic means to accomplish their goals.

            There is little practical difference between communism and fascism when it comes to its affect on the everyday citizen.

            • Yeah, I spoke too glibly in defining capitalism in that way. Sorry.

              The communists I know range from the ones who are actively engaged in fighting the “corporatism” that you describe, to the old traditionalists who recall Marx’s original analysis in Das Kapital. There’s not space here to sufficiently explain the entire range of capitalisms.

              I’m not making a straw man argument, though I think that many academics have made a straw man of neoliberal capitalism, and have been beating it to death for two decades now.

              I think that Marxist economists do identify real weaknesses in capitalisms, and ones that are often ignored by neoliberal economists. I’m certain that we disagree on that.

              I don’t know where your definition of fascism comes from. My understanding of fascism comes from reading on the historical development of it as a political ideology, first in Italy, and later in Germany. Based on that I can say that everything tends to take a subservient role to the state in fascism. Business is allowed freedom insofar as it continues to meet the goals of the state.

              I don’t disagree with your basic characterization of communism as it’s used in this discussion, nor do I disagree with the fact that fascism and communism often end up in the same place. Both should be avoided.

              I sincerely don’t think that Obama is a communist. I am fairly secure in the idea that he is a Keynesian capitalist. So we disagree on that.

              • “I don’t know where your definition of fascism comes from. My understanding of fascism comes from reading on the historical development of it as a political ideology, first in Italy, and later in Germany. Based on that I can say that everything tends to take a subservient role to the state in fascism. Business is allowed freedom insofar as it continues to meet the goals of the state.”

                That is why I said that there is little practical difference between communism and fascism….or Nazism for that matter.

                All of them are just one form or another of statism. And they may vary in DEGREE….but not in KIND.

                The big problem is that we have allowed the left to frame the debate.

                As for Obama not being a communist….well…you may be correct. He may be more of a fascist…or corporatist.

                But what he is NOT is a capitalist…in any sense of the word.

              • I don’t agree that the definition of “capitalism is corporations running things.” The actual and correct definition:

                “Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, with the goal of making a profit.”

                Corporations, by nature, are government owned as an entity by the state, with dividends being distributed amongst the shareholders. When corporations “merge” with government for common and mutual benefits wherein a conflict of interest against the general public occurs, this is corporate fascism, not free market capitalism.

      16. The “when” simply depends on the “magic number”. Many guess, but no one can actually say what that magic number will be. $18 trillion, 22,22,35, 101? Who the hell knows anymore. It is evident that the general public is fine with taking it up to see at what point it blows. I have not heard a single economic plan to deal with the structural economical problems that the US faces. Borrow/print until something gives. The press says the economy is looking up, but still no end to low interest rates or QE. Go figure. It will blow, and I hope we survive.

      17. On an off topic, I miss being able to print a Print-Friendly versions of these articles. It’s only been a day or so.

      18. ~~~This is the reason almost every single “commune” type system fails….heck, even the Shakers died out people~~~

        This didn’t help…
        Shakers were celibate; procreation was forbidden after they joined the society (except for women who were already pregnant at admission). Children were added to their communities through indenture, adoption, or conversion

      19. This is the biggest argument me and mine have. I keep telling him that as long and hard as I have worked for years to take care of our needs WHEN disaster strikes—-that I will not take it lightly when non-preppers (you know, the ones that think we are paranoid) for doing this come to my door wanting what took years to accomplish.

        He does not think that will happen. WELL his daughter would be one of them with her two grown children in tow– my son, his wife and their three kids for others. In all there would 17 extra mouths and I prepared for two people.
        All the talks have fallen on deaf ears and strange looks from them like I have a fatal disease.
        Just how do you say no to them because if I try to take care of them we all will be starved in a short time.

        My daughter has the most hardship of them all and she does all she can to prep as much as she can. I help her because she tries to help herself while raising her two grandchildren ( my great-grandchildren) on a single income at whatever joy she can take and still do childcare.
        The attitude I get is, “Oh, we’ll just come to your house.” RIGHT!

        End of vent. People need to read God’s word. His teaching beginning with the first book in the Bible is about preparing with Joseph in Egypt

        • 4 year prepper
          Typo: Should be: whatever ‘JOB” she can take. Getting frustrated always did mess up my keyboard.

          • 4 Year prepper, also what Christ said is those who truly follow Him, will Leave their friends And even Family. Ever since abraham God said “Leave em all and do elsewise”. I am paraphrasing of course, but those who read or study the bible know what I am saying here.

            Most folks have the exact Opposite attitude when it comes to “Family”. They say stick together no matter what. And then where do you stop? Family includes who? all 200 cousins who may show up?!!

            Seems in the end it will likly be the methods Christ advised that will work best perhaps. Besides when everybody you know or knew Rejects 99+% of all You think or believe in, not much choice is left but to turn away from Them. I have zero guilt for that if its necessary I do so. I tried to awaken my family and friends for over 40 yrs now!…I have had it. No more nothing from me.

            If they hate what I tell them? They will hate MY stuff too! If necessary do a bugout and do NOT tell any where its at!

        • My daughter has the most hardship of them all and she does all she can to prep as much as she can. I help her

          Good for you. Help the one trying to help themselves.

      20. I don’t need signs from big corporations with their falling revenue to tell me things are getting worse. Every time I go to the store in the last 5 years, I come home with less money and less food. When the time comes (and it will) the cashier says that will be $100.00 for a gallon of milk one loaf of bread and a small jar of peanut butter. I’ll start using the dollar bills to wipe with. And start boarding up the windows and doors.
        I do believe I hear the fat lady starting to clear her throat for the final song.

        • I know what you mean Ghostrighter, I have watched as several of the weekly items that we buy increased in price as much as 4 times in less than six months, and watched other items shrink in size. My pay has been stagnant for 4 years now. The only thing that has helped is that we had paid off our mortgage about 2 years ago. Now I am also losing half of my hours making me a part- timer.

          • This price’s increasing badly on mainly Gas and Groceries, has been doing so since Prez Jimmy Carter was in office. Recall the phony engineered to screw usa Oil embargos, caused gas to double in cost and folks had to Ration buying gas when Jimmy was prez?

            And it hasn’t crashed down yet. Maybe sooner or later it will have to. But we may see this type crap go on and on a long while before it happens. Remember there are alot of folks still has good jobs too. I know a few and seems they keep getting raises in pay so these troubles don’t seem to affect them badly at all.

            I think when speaking of how many get food stamps now, it must be divided into Two groups. Those who always scam the system and teach their kids to do so. And the rest who never before needed help yet Now do and thru no fault of their own. nafta stuff has caused alot of that for example. I do not blame those folks for woes others created to force them to seek assistance. Big difference from inner city generational welfare abusers.

            But still there are many folks doing quite swell now. Nothing will convince them of problems we speak of here. unless they too lose jobs etc. I guess I just do not buy into everything alot of fear mongers hype when constant crys of “its gonna all come down! Any day now!”

            America has had Many eras of depressions and recessions. Nobody mentions it much, but 20 yrs or so Prior to 1929 great depression there was a Huge recession for several yrs. So far every time did usa govnt crash or fall apart and usa turned into anarchy?…Nope. So why all a sudden it will This time? Maybe yes, maybe no. None knows the future. But many sell stuff that Thrives upon Fear right. You cannot discount That either.

            Have any here noted since gold and especially Silver dropped so much and so far Remains Down alot. No more articles of Fear and crys to Hurry! BUY GOLD! Silver! both will Sky rocket any day now! $20,000 per OZ just around the proverbial corner!

            How many Here bought silver and gold at the HIGH prices? Many I bet. Hows that working out when you paid $1700 per oz, and Now you have LOST so much? Silver has dropped at least 1/2 from its high, maybe even More!

            Sometimes not all who cry dire warnings are correct eh. Some are in it for personal Gain and nothing else. Which is which? How can we tell from anon websites articles?

            If it all comes crashing down oh well. Maybe we got another 30-35 yrs like since Prez Carter era?

      21. Solar Update,

        Approximately 4-1/2 hours ago, aafter an anomalou ramp curve an M-5.0 Very Long Duration Flare was monitored by the GOES-15 platform. It appears at this time as if the High Band emmissions might be attempting a second effort to ramp-up, but it IS the case that the emitting region is 11745; which IS near to the dividing terminus of the Western Limb and Visible face fo the Solar disk, ergo there is little threat in the terrestrial sense…


        • Thanks for the update, JOG! I was just reading elsewhere how huge this actually may have been. Watching the visual from this flare, it looked ginormous! Also, apparently the monitoring equipment was all down during this flare, leaving many to speculate that it wasn’t accurately measured.

          Any thoughts about this possibility?

          • Howdy FP,

            Too Right…the instant that a flare goes off the FIRT thing I do, I go over to the EUVI SAM repostory to ‘watch’ as the feeds release the relevant inmaging..usually delayed by about 22-25 minutes, in order to validate WHERE the flare originated from. This morning THAT was offline from near to 09:30 UTC until PAST 17:00 UTC…which IS one the longer breaks I’ve ever seen it take.

            …Bear in mind there ISN’T neccesarily any COMSPIRACY at work in this coincidence..the sat’s DO need to be re-calibrated form time to time, and OCCAISIONALLY they HAPPEN to be off-line doing so when ‘something’ happens.

            That siad, there WAS an ‘oddity’ this morning… theoretically the Flare we reported earlies emanated form NOAA 11745…that region is CLEARLY near to the Western Solar Limb…Yes? THEN WHY did we SEE an instantaneous LARGE increase to well over a hundred count of the associated Proton Flux Monitors?

            Per, and by way, of explanation, consider: the last time we saw ANYTHING such as the insta-rise we witnessed on the GOES Proton Monitors this morning the genitive flares were far closer to the Solar center and were VERY much larger in areal terms than anything which has lately been seen thereon the face of the Solar disk…

            …Currently…’Tis a mystery. It is ALSO worth noting that though the rise seen in the spring of 2012 were slightly larger they WERE followed by the largest proton counts seen in 8 years previous, subsequently, ie CME’s

            Question: Why are we seeing such HIGH insta-counts from a near-to-Limb event?

            Answer: I don’t KNOW, We SHOULDN’T be.

            I’ll get back with Y’all when I can get a better handle on things here….


        • Hello JOG
          Every morning I watch this guys 4min news brief about the sun, weather etc… on youtube. It’s got a lot of info. I though you might like it. His channel is called suspicious0bservers. I’m not as knowledgeable about this stuff as you seem to be so this is good for me. I like your updates, thanks.

          • Thanks COBeach,

            i appreciate the heads it happens… I get my feeds DIRECTLY from the relevant original agency’s involved; NASA, NOAA, et al.It is simply a matter of diligence in the watching. I ve been watching such for a little over 10 years now and do have a ‘small’ skill at reading the various imaging data we are forwarded therefrom.

            Also, though it was VERY difficult as little as a just a few years ago to direct monitor all such , the advent of the Internet has simplified things enormously…so much so that anyone can do so for themsleves if they are so inclined…and also diligent. The skill to read the HMID/HMIB/HMII and etc is simply a matter of continued exposure to the material over time…one gets a ‘feel’ for it eventually. Again though, Thanks for the H-U


      22. This economic system is bound to crash. The sooner it does, the faster we can clean up the mess and rebuild. I honestly believe we need a shock to the system so severe that it rattles people awake to the corruption and feudalist system we have now. It would be hell for awhile but at least we could purge the cancer and wipe out the criminals that have destroyed our way of life and country.

      23. So let’s suppose all of this is meaningless chatter and the so called Black Hole does not come? You have spent thousand upon thousand’s of dollars on prepping for what?

        • It will come. Mathematically impossible not to. You and I may be dead from age before it does, but it will happen. This is a chance I will take. If nothing else I will have taught my kids how to prepare for the future. There is no getting out of it. Our populace is now in the end of it’s cycle. We are as Rome was in the end. Loving violence (WWF MMA), loss of morality, loss of honor, complacency in daily life. It may get drug out for an extended period but there is no way to avoid something tragic to break us down so we can rebuild stronger. I you don’t mind please tell me where you believe the bright spot in the economy is. What will pull us out of the depressed economy? Solar panels, oil, farming, manufacturing. Or do we just keeping serving on another and passing newly printed money back and forth. Just the mere mention of QE pullback and the DOW drops 100 points. I am all ears.

          • @Gonetoolong…

            You mention stuff like WWF MMA…and I’m assuming you mean things like these “ultimate fighting” contests as well.

            I can’t stand to watch them either. They are barbaric, and a good indicator of just how low we have sunk as a culture.

            For the record…I’ve never cared much for boxing either.

            And I think a lot of these so-called “reality” TV shows are pretty much along the same lines.

            And you are correct….it is mathematically impossible for this whole thing to NOT crash. The whole paradigm is founded on the concept of infinite growth. As a result we are facing exponential problems in regard to debt and consumption.

            It is not sustainable.

            If you have the opportunity…check out Chris Martenson’s “Crash Course” video series, where he explains this.

            Here’s a link:


          • Howdy Gone2Long,

            “We are as Rome was in the end. Loving violence (WWF MMA), loss of morality, loss of honor, complacency in daily life.”

            Just so…What we are seeing is NO LESS than the time preceding the Roman collapse, the ‘Circus Maximus’ as it were. Surely there can be few more DIRE indications of the truth underlying the current state of affair’s all about us today. The general level of ‘Mean’ is just going off the scale as anyone with the slightest urge, or capacity to think can easily grasp.

            FWIW Folks…I WATCH the National/Global financial’s VERY closely…NOT one datum has come out, NOT ONE – Credible, that is – in the LAST year to suggest that anything is other than ‘Nearing Catastropy’…NOW. Witness, if you will that AVN AMRO, COMEX and the Shanghai Metals Exchange have all CEASED to deliver on thier PHYSICAL contracts…each and every one has, within the last few weeks, notified thier respective customers that they will settle only in Currency (FIAT…hahahhaaa), the remaining account balances…for those of you who do not KNOW what this means here’s a primer, Short and Sweet: THE BULLION ‘BANKS’ are currently IN DEFAULT on thier contracts…WTF did YOU say there?!…I SAID they are IN DEFAULT!…PERIOD..they have FAILED to Honor their obligations. That said… here’a a REALLY scary thought; Where the F_ck is ALL THAT Gold at…right NOW? T’aint HERE…see below…

            Some bit ago the Hedge ran a piece from Eric Sprott…the Canadian Metals Tycoon (Billionaire many times over), in which he came directly out and SAID that there is NO WAY that Ft. Knox can have even a FRACTION of the Gold – 8200 tons – that it is supposed to HAVE. He set his staff on a HUGE project to back track the actual ‘Unaccounted Gold’ that had LEFT the country over time…turns out that THAT isn’t a trivial task. Nonetheles, his Folks cam back to himn saying “Umm…WE have a PROBLEM”…that being that even under the most RIGOROUS tracking they could access that it WAS the CASE that 4700 ton of Gold had left North America since 1991….Further, if they ‘relaxed’ those few assumptions they had been compelled to use, even MARGINALLY, then THAT got MUCH WORSE…

            Now what do they here mean..let me explain: under rigorous assumptions and strict accounting for the Governmental figures involved they arived at the 4700 ton figure…GONE….when they relaxed things a bit that SHOT up to 13,200 tons!!! Let me be plain here…that’s HALF AGAIN the ENTIRETY that is supposedly stored in Knox…if the HAIRS aren’t standing up on the back of your neck at this point, then you MUST be DEAD, simply put.

            Some bit ago I asked openly here, “How do you STEAL g TRILLION dollars, or rather the VALUE of such..or more still yet?” Hmmmm?

            Here’s a hint folks, at the end of EVERY ‘Magician’s Trick’ there IS a Point where he must – for just an instant – distract the viewer’s so that they ARE not watching what he actually does to make the trick work, simple..Yes? Let’s face it here, IF you’re going to STEAL 10 Trillion dollars what must you do to pull it off? Firstly, I’d suggest you don’t GET CAUGHT…because IF you DO…you’ll be BURBED at the Stake – ALIVE- before it’s all over…everyone on this Planet WILL be AFTER your ASS…to the DEATH, Eh?

            The SOLUTION hewre is actually REALLY simple…First, convince everyone that a bunch of pretty pictures on PAPER has ACTUAL, REAL worth, then quietly MOVE the things of REAL value somewhere else when NO ONE is looking, then Rig-up a three-card Monte game called either the ‘Stock Market’ or alternately the ‘Derivatives Market’ (Now ‘worth’more than 1.2 QUADRILLION DOLARS nominal value, or 20 times the GDP of the ENTIRE WORLD) whetein all that PAPER can trail down a hole so DEEP that No ONE will ever find it…think not?… two names here, “Jon Corzine’ and “MF Global”…do your homework here, FIGURE it OUT. IF they can do it on that scale it’s ACTUIALLY EASIER to do it on a larger one, BELEIVE ME.

            Wonder why Warren Buffet is suddenly up to holding 49 Billion CASH…out of the MARKETS?!, womnder WHY Bankers, everywhere are simply resigning….and then disappearing all OVER the PLACE?! Why the Bush Family…Yeah THAT one, has managed to secure a HUGE tract of land in South America over the BIGGEST aquafer therein…Why James Cameron And His Buddy have bought up thousands of HECTARES of land in New Zealand and Canada? Cameron’s visa says he’s going to live there and FARM!?!?! THIS list just GOES on and on and on Folks… and it IS accelerating daily.

            Wonder when it’s going to happen? Hmmm? I am at this point FAIRLY sure that your NEXT Christmass “won’t be quite soooo ‘Merry’…that is, at the latest”. The Bankers ARE losing CONTROL of the System, the diverenece between Physical and PAPER is right AT the Brink of exploding, NOW. See th ‘value’ of Gold going gown day after day…THAT’S tha PAPER Fold ‘Market’ which has been rehypothecated – in current estimations 130 times OVER…thayt is 130 People show up to claim their Gold
            ouce….and ONE person gets to WALK AWAY with it…that’s what that long word above MEANS…thay have solod things to People whio THINK they ACTUALLY ‘Own’ something…heheheeeeeee…not quite.

            ‘Do or not do’, the choice is yours, NOW….but remember also, “If you CHOOSE NOT to make a Choice.. Still, You HAVE Chosen…”


            • EXCELLENT synopsis, JOG. Thank you for taking the time to post it. I agree that economic collapse can be any time, from one second from now to a couple years, at most.

        • Memphis.

          For what ever turns your motor. Really does not matter what you spend the money on. It is what you want. Buy a new car or an Iphone. Go on vacation. You believe that a new whatever is best for you. Do it. It all depends on what you believe. Throw those chips in the air and see where they fall. Myself, I do not care as much as I have, that people prepare. I help those that ask for help. Most people do not want my help and I finally figured it out, it is not worth the time to convince them, when other things need to be done.
          I agree there are the fringe. Yet many have acquire so much info and skills over years to be past on to others. Things you do not learn from a book. You have to experience it. Have you ever heard of a prepper who would not teach? Just look at all the threads here at SHTF. Pick what suits you and learn. May save your life one day.

        • I have not spent a dime on anything that I cannot eventually use. And most likely…what I have purchased will be worth more in the future if we don’t experience anything but gradual inflation.

          Prepping is not wasted effort. It is a lifestyle that was the norm for most people 100 years ago.

          What is foolish…is the absurd notion that because things are good NOW…and you have everything that you need NOW…it will ALWAYS be there.

          That is a way of thinking that has proved fatal on more than one occasion throughout history.

          • Howdy Walt,

            “What is foolish…is the absurd notion that because things are good NOW…and you have everything that you need NOW…it will ALWAYS be there.”

            Just so Brother…Game, Set and Match with THAT observation…Gee..will People ever get it?…that ALL of SUDDEN things ‘change’…usually WITHOUT the benefit of WARNING?!?! Sometimes, I just about want to GIVE UP…

            Oh, Incidentally..I’ve lately been back and forth…and to and fro..and I AM not keeping up with the postings well lately. As it happens I saw your previous post (The “Gran Torino’ missive)…I feel much the same..I left a little blurb’ there in response, you might to drop by to take a look if you have some free time Friend…I do very much appreciate your thoughts …roundly, we are, I think, ‘sympatico’ on a variety of levels.


            • Will do….Thanks!

      24. When this balloon rips it will tear the arse out of the USA/EU & the rest of us will be sprayed just like the SHTF. The communists in this part of the world also have an old trusted plan & they call it UHURU can you even imagine what this means & people over here havnt a care of thought as long as they fashioned up with latest gadget in there hands with take out to eat & a party to go dance. I am doing what prep I can physical & mental has anybody been watching syria war footage pick up some good tips on what happens when urban warfare goes full scale

        • two buckets: I travel in my work and meet all sorts of characters. At my last inspection I made a fast friend by sharing some fried deer meat. Turns out he did 5 years in prison and he opened up a new world of information to me about daily life in a gladiatorial setting. I’m not saying you need to find a convict BFF but the information about primal societal interactions and barter systems were eye opening. I learned a lot about the workings of a desperate human environment and shaped a slightly different outlook on a SHTF situation. Never turn down a free education someone else payed for in blood, sweat, and tears.

      25. It looks like Uncle Ben, may be just about ready to pull the plug.

      26. We all know it’s coming. It’s just a question of WHEN it’s coming.

        My family has been preparing for it for 5 years now. Thank God we were given time to do so.

        I feel for those just waking up but I encourage them to move their preparations into hyper-drive. I believe it will happen during the community organizer’s second term.


      28. It’s utterly ironic that they’re talking about cutting food stamps when they’ve done so very much to expand it in recent history.

        Always said it… if you’re dependent on a .gov program at any point, you should be very very worried.

        Like… ticking time bomb in your closet kind of worried.

        Not saying anything good or bad about the people that got on the food stamps. We could argue that on an individual case basis, or in terms of overall trend, but that’s not my point.

        My point is… guess what, now they’re screwed.

        How’s that going to go?

        • Its double speak. They did cut welfare… just made it ridiculous for people to get on SS. If they cut food stamps, then they replace it with another, larger anti-work, anti-responsibility program. buy the votes by destroying self respect and self value.

      29. my thoughts are that the sweater will unravel right after midterm elections.
        obama and helicopter ben are buying time to get as many dems elected in 2014 as possible . Obama whats NO resistance legally once the collapse happens.
        thats why the big push on guns and the increased use of
        DHS and on and on .
        the numbers used in the story are based on government statistics , i think the real numbers would paint a much more dire picture .

      30. BOYCOTT DISNEY NOW !!!

        Disney Cruise Line Dining Room Server Molesting 11 yo Girl in Elevator

        Disney Cruise Line fails to promptly report molestation of 11-year-old girl in port. Shocking Moment Disney Cruise Line Dining Room Server ‘Molested Girl in Ship Elevator’ Surveillance video shows the shocking moment an 11-year-old girl was allegedly molested by a Disney cruise worker at Port Canaveral, Florida just hours before the ship set sail. Milton Braganza, a 33-year-old dining room server from Goa, India, allegedly fondled the girl’s breasts and forcibly kissed her shortly after the Brazilian adolescent boarded the Disney Dream ship on August 5 with her grandmother and sister for a five-night journey to the Bahamas.

      31. It is only going to take a moderate catastrophe to throw everything over the edge. Perhaps this is what BO is aiming for and wants, or knows about it already ahead of time. They can of course zero out everything if there are no one to pay for what is owed. Or BO can sign some executive order to make it so that everything owed is simply paid pennies on the dollar. Never underestimate what BO and that adminstration is capable of.

        My thought is that these idiots like helicopter ben simply print up a bunch of trillion dollar BO platinum coins and deposit them into the federal reserve and say, debt paid. Of course they could also print up a boat load of $100 dollar bills along with this and really getting the economy going. Yeah, and send the price of gold up to $100,000 an ounce and gasoline up to $100 a gallon. Some nice hyperinflation. That is what that imbecile helicopter ben wants.

        Who out there want to heat up some nice tar, and someone else can pluck some chickens? It is tar and feathering time. If anyone of you could tar and feather one person, only one person, whom would that be? 😉

        • I would pick Bill Gates. His evil vaccines have left kids paralyzed or Autistic. His preaching on how Africa needs to be immunized but they have no food, why does immunization come before basic food and water, they are starving to death. He pushes his vaccines in the US also. Then their is his evil company Monsanto, GMO’s make people sick. Bill Gates is the most evil person I can think of.

          • I don’t think I could pin point one person. I think it’s like other people here have said, been planned for a 100 years. How can people not feel what’s going on?

            We move to our BOL in 64 days…And DEFINITELY NOT soon enough for me!!!!

          • Bill Gates is NOT the anti-christ….but I’m pretty sure the anti-christ works for him.

            • the popes have always been the antichrist until the jesuits invented the dispensational doctrine that decieves so many into believing there is only 1 end time antichrist & now they believe the pope is the good guy & so fullfiling scripture 2thes2:7-12

      32. In the short animated movie I pet goat 2, it was released June, 2012. It can be seen on YouTube, it is 7 min. It seems to predict events that have happened, and foretells future events in a riddle type manner. In the eyes of one of the characters, his eyes reads MARKET CRASHES, then it looks like ticker type symbols. If you have not watched this, it is very disturbing. It shows the American flag ripped in half, actually it’s very disturbing. I truly believe that if you don’t have possesion of an asset, and it’s something you can use, then I it is worthless. I believe things are going to get very ugly in the very near future. Hope for the best but plan for the worse.

      33. OT
        has anyone else noticed that smokonokie, durango kid, and eisen haven’t commented since oklahoma got hit. Could be nothing but does anyone know where they are from?

        • Maybe Oklahoma, Arizona, Florida.

      34. Then you add the future death of the dollar and you’ll have the biggest disaster in the history of the world. We’re not talking devaluing the dollar. We’re talking about the dollar being so worthless they’ll be using 100 dollar bills as toilet paper. Prepare accordingly.

        • Barn Cat

          Thats not all of it. There is no way that WWIII would not be the result of the chaos. TPTB need the US Military as their “enforcer”. They will do whatever to maintain sufficient economic stability to support “their” Military. This coupled with a reduced US Military global presence out of economic necessity means the global cop does not patrol the beat at a time of global economic decline. All of it collectively spells global war.

          • Howdy Kevin2,

            Your observation that WWIII WILL be a consquence of what is coming is quite astute. There IS simply no way that the VARIOUS PTB that are ‘Globally’ out there WILL not set Nation against Nation…it IS THIER ONLY WAY OUT of the mess at hand; they have to create the biggest smoke-screen the World has EVER seen, as they attempt to ‘slither-off’ into wherever it is they intend to go, Eh?

            Else THIER asses are OURS…


            • JustOneGuy

              I’m of the mindset that such a catastrophe an attempt will be be made to avoid this at all cost by TPTB but its still probably unavoidable. I believe that their grand globalist plan is spinning out of their control. Their policies are now reactive. WWIII does not work in their favor with far too many weapons at nations disposal that are great enough to kill the very people that started the world down this road. No one is immune from the destructive capabilities if WWIII. The world would easily be reduced to rubble.

              The bottom line is war is probably impossible to avoid with all this global economic decline and chaos. There is not one potential for cause but rather many individually and even more in a collective mix.

              • Howdy Kevin2,

                Yup, I see things much the same as you…specifically, here I”ll use an example I’m familiar with, one wjhich underlie everything in the World. I’m a Physicist as it were, so this example is ‘my neck’O the woods’ so to speak.

                For the longest time it was the case that the ‘system’ as it was constructed, was, in fact SLOW enough and ‘Ponderous’ enough to be ‘predictable’ in a very real sense. Then THEY began ramming the systenm harder and harder to provide fot thier ‘NEEDS’, more and more… The problem then comes straight out of any modern Physics book…that when you try to MEASURE things you MUST interact with them, apply force to them, as it happens. Thier actions in the system in attempting to produce – for them – what would be perfection, in fact – produce another result entirely.

                Specifically, the system RESPONDS as you yourself note becomes REACTIVE..all such systems are Non-Linear in character, it becomes like trying to predict where every particle of H2O will go while it flows down a stream…impossible. Thier greatest error exist in thier FAILURE to recognize the intrinsic linmitations of what they have constructed….and now it is too late, Pandora has OPENED the Box. Any time you try to ‘force’ a System you had better be VERY sure you know where the ‘Boundary Solutions’ for that system lay, else…”BOOOOM”

                Hang in there Brother..Eye Open, Watch Your 6!!


        • Barn Cat, do you think a total us dollar crash is why Buffet cashed in and now holds ALL cash to the tune of $49-Billion CASH us dollars? Or APPLE corp that has Over $100-Billion Cash us dollars on hand and has for some time now? Are they all stupid? They didn’t get so wealthy being stupid right? Not all fear hyped articles are correct you know. Many folks made same claims back when Jimmy Carter was Prez and gas lines occured and gas prices Soared to Double. Yet no crash since 35 yrs now?

          usa has had Many recessions etc and never yet have we ever seen total govnt collapse. We probobly Wont. they aint stupid neither. Evil Yes. Not stupid though.

      35. Hey, its the Duke’s birthday!!!!!! what do you think he would say about our current state of the union?

      36. Ed, i’ve noticed it. DK is somewhere in AZ, I think, smokinOkie, I don’t know what part of OK he lives in, and have no clue about Eisen’s location.

        • Eisen is Florida. Okie lives at the end of a road in remote part of of OK somewhere.I thought DK was CO but not sure. All from their prior postings.

        • Eisen is in Fantasy Land.

        • whoops…sorry…I see you already answered ed.

      37. Hope Eisen’s not near Miami. most of that city is a 3rd-world hellhole now.

      38. Cool. Durango kid commented an hour after my comment.

      39. Would somebody please explain why derivatives are dangerous at the value mentioned in the article? Thanks!

        • Liam derivatives are dangerous to an economy if you look at it like this. Imagine if you took out a huge mortgage, bought a mansion, took out and maxed out every credit card you could get, and all of a sudden the lenders decided to call in all of your debt at the same time. Bankers and financial groups are basically at a casino gambling like there’s no tomorrow and going and borrowing and borrowing from the house to keep playing.

          • Not really. The taxpayer eats all losses for top 6 banks. So, they are gambling with other people’s money.

            More realistically, derivatives have created an overly complex leverage system. Dishonesty typically hides in the complexity and dishonest products (like the mortgage tranches which were rated quality but had crap) become more and more dominant.

            “notional value” is a red herring. If I sell you the earnings (to be derived) from a 10 year bond, then you can sal the “notional value” is $1M but really you only bought the $10K piece and your potential loss is only what you paid me. So, “notional” is not really a good one. The trickery comes in how things are sliced and diced. I don’t know for sure, but think there is a lot of risk there. For sure, if the tbond rating drops then there is a copmlex system of investors affects; and, since things are pyramidded then the losses avalanche. For sure, this is EXACTLY why the banks (ala FRB) had to prop up the home mortgage market – banks list mortgages as ASSETS; so, they could not let the real losses be known because it would avalanche their balance sheets. Net effect would have been great for working Americans as homes and mortgage costs would have plummetted; but, bad for the rich; so, future tax dollars were used to prevent the rich from losing. So, more of the same coming from the derivatives space: only 1000 times larger perhaps?

          • Liam

            Imagine all those loans you have were packaged together and literally sold as an asset (the thought is that you can repay). Therefore your debt magically became an asset. Someone “owning” this debt use it as collateral on their loan and so on and so on. Its like fractional reserve banking with a “reserve” that in reality is in the negative.

            One bump cascades a series of collapses that swiftly overload the system. Massive wealth destruction occurs virtually immediately.

      40. STOP FEEDING THE BEAST. That is the single most relevant and important action that ALL “TAXPAYERS” can do together. Use your next form 1040 to start your fireplace or BBQ pit.

        This will bring “the machine” to a grinding halt. EVERYONE that stills pays the illegal nonFEDERAL INCOME TAX can easily participate in this devastating “civil disobedience”. “But I want my refund”…SCREW YOUR REFUND. Get behind this and YOU won’t every worry about a refund again because there will be NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX. (Interest free loan to the nonFederal Reserve PRIVATE banking cartel of bankster/gangsters). Call it what it actually is.

        EVERY OTHER TAX, FEE, and SHAM you pay is the money that is wasted on GOOBERMENT OPERATIONS. The “INCOME TAX” is 1913 “bankster/gangster” bullsh*t. How did the “government” operate before 1913? Magic? Then WE need some of that “old MAGIC”.

        The nonFederal Income Tax is a sham. NEVER ratified by the required number of states and DOES NOT FUND THE OPERATIONS OF THE GOOBERMENT. It simply “repays” the private counterfeiters that create/loan FIAT out of thin air. ARTIFICIAL DEBT SLAVES…UNITE.


      41. Hey, everyone, come on over to the next article; very interesting.

      42. Hello to all,
        I just wanted to say thanks to all of you guys
        Here on this site. I have been following the discussions
        Here for for a while, but didn’t think I had anything
        Worthwhile to contribute. But I finally wanted to introduce
        myself in hopes to join ranks with likeminded people.
        You guys have helped me with my humble preps. No where
        else can you find this kind of conversations. You guys are the
        real mccoys. And I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I can be
        Of service.

        • Howdyh WD,

          Per you post, then I say, “Be Welcome in this place Friend…and also, “Well-Met”!


          PS: We ALL have things to share varies from day-to-day…EVERYONE DOES..we’ll look forward to hearing from you…again Be Welcome.

      43. The dow is suppose to be down today because the Japanese market lost 6% overnight.

        • Howdy Dee in NC,

          “Welcome”…That said, be slightly careful in your commmets here…there was a previous poster here – JoeinNC – who was s “Super-Troll”…the memory still lingers here for many, I’m sure. As such given that I’M ssure that you’re NOT affiliated therewith I am just letting you know 😉

          I do not recognize your moniker and so – as is usual for those here we typically try to Welcome those “newly arrived’, explicity…Glad to have You!!

          With repect to the supposed fluctuations in our markets here after the Japanese debalce last night one might think that to be a reaonable consequence…a result of. The problem here is that the Market system which we are so familiar with has become MONSTROUSLY ‘skewed’ by the vast influxes of Capital – in the form of Central Bank Printing of Money – that THAT system is now become ‘Chaotic’…non-linear…unpredictable. There is a specific scientific discipline called ‘Chaos Theory’
          (REALLY, there IS!) which attempts to quantify truely complex phenomena such as that, and what we draw therefrom with respect to the Market’s NOW, IS ‘disturbing’ beyond measure.

          Those at the top BELEIVE that they have ‘a good handle on things’…I am here to tell you DIRECTLY…they DO NOT. The system, driven as it is today, has long pased the point where ANY modeling they do is even qualifiably capable of describing the actual BEHAVIORS of same… this disconnect between ‘what ACTUALLY is’ and ‘What they THINK it IS’ will…in the End, be the finality that most here beleive is to come….soon.

          Again, Glad to ‘know’ you…’Welcome’! 🙂


      44. Selkirk, please don’t leave. I scrolled down through the posts just to see what you had to say. I don’t think you are a communist either. Your responses were actually well thought out and I appreciate them.

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