American Consumer Beaten Down; November Retail Sales “Fairly Disappointing”; Unemployment Still a Threat

by | Dec 13, 2011 | Headline News | 114 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Their parking lots may have been full over the annual Running of the Bulls Thanksgiving weekend, but they weren’t making as much money as many economists had predicted. While retailers saw a slight increase in sales, declining wages, lost jobs and economic uncertainty are taking their toll on American consumers:

    Retail sales rose less than expected in November as a drop in receipts for food and beverages weighed against stronger sales of motor vehicles, tempering some of the expectations of a strong holiday shopping season.

    Total retail sales increased 0.2 percent…

    Economists polled by Reuters had forecast retail sales climbing 0.6 percent last month.

    It’s fairly disappointing given that all the evidence was pointing to fairly strong gains during the month,” said Millan Mulraine a macro strategist at TD Securities in New York.

    Consumer spending – which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity – rose sharply in the third quarter but November’s retail sales growth was the weakest in any month since June.

    Strong sales reports over that [Thanksgiving] weekend led some analysts to predict a strong overall season, although economists have warned the shopping frenzy may not carry through the holidays due to the nation’s still high unemployment rate of 8.6 percent.

    A recent string of improved economic data in the United States have eased fears of recession, buying the central bank time to gauge the impact of Europe’s debt crisis on the U.S. economy.

    Source: Reuters

    Most of America is under the impression that our central bank has already gauged the strength of the American economy and our benevolent leaders have determined their is nothing to worry about. For months we’ve been told that the economy is recovering after having survived the worst crisis since the Great Depression. It turns out, however, that we are just buying time; kicking the can down the road a bit further.

    November was supposed to be the blow-out month, the one that got us back on track. The American consumer, responsible for over half of all economic growth in this country, was supposed to return with a vengeance. The lackluster retail sales performance for November, however, is a clear indicator that all is not well.

    Unemployment, though officially reported at 8.6%, is nothing more than a statistical sham, with over 20% of Americans actually unable to find meaningful labor. Perhaps if economists were looking at the right numbers they’d be able to make more informed forecasts.

    Furthermore, those doing their duty to keep the American consumption engine lubricated are doing so not with income earned at higher paying, shovel ready jobs, but because they had savings available before things went sour in 2008 and because they have faith in the government’s assessments about this being a short-term transient economic blip:

    From: The Goods News Is Consumer Spending Is Up. The Bad News Is…

    The bad news is, that while the economy continues to fall into an abyss, the American consumer just doesn’t see it. To compensate for what many believe to be a short-term recessionary blip, consumers are maintaining their lifestyles by blowing through their savings and retirement funds:

    More from the AP:

    …economists worry that the spending can’t continue at the same pace. Over the summer, consumers spent more while earning less. Many had to dip into their savings to make up the difference.

    “Overall, the economy appears to be growing at a decent clip,” said Paul Dales, a senior U.S. economist at Capital Economics.

    Still, Dales added, “Consumption cannot grow at a faster rate than incomes indefinitely.

    Retail sales and GDP growth were supposed to have returned to normal levels by now. This was the assessment of mainstream economists in the private and public sector when the recession was in full swing in 2009.

    The cheerleaders can scream as loudly as they want. Not even a bullhorn will help change the reality. This economic climate is not normal. Retail sales are not coming back. Not when the shadow statistics – those data that you’ll never hear a Washington politician or central banker share with you – are at or near Great Depression levels, and not while fully one-third of our nation is living in or on the edge of poverty.

    Consumers have been hit from all sides. There’s not much more they can take. 2012 is going to be a rough year.


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      1. I firmly predict America’s main stream media will portray us in full recovery – in time for Obama’s second coronation. Just look how they talked about “sales” during the Thanksgiving weekend and the dramatic drop in unemployment from 9.1 to 8.6%. This is the same media that said the world was ending when the rate went from 4.9 to 5.0% on Bush mind you.

        • I can definitely see this as part of the administration’s strategy.. Either they sell this economy to the American people as being in full recovery, or, if the economy crashes they take us to war (whether it’s a proxy war or direct conventional conflict is anybody’s guess).

          Obama needs a boost in the polls and either one of those strategies – if sold right – could do the job. While I like to believe ‘Americans are waking up’ the majority of the population still bases their economic and political decisions on the latest mainstream headlines.

          For this reason, and my belief that true no-party Americans will sit out the Presidential election if republicans can’t nominate an appropriate candidate, I can’t dismiss the very real possibility of an Obama re-election.

          • I really dont think that Americans will buy another war.
            Another war really wont do anything for the economy or peoples attitudes. People, even ones who like war are pretty much fed up with the whole mess we are in.
            So far the Republican candidates are all proxys and it is quite evident. So it is beginning to look like another Obama term unless Rom Paul gets a good boost.

            • And what would you say about the straits to the Persian Gulf being closed and $200 oil or higher.

            • Given enough media support the US public will buy anything. I theorize that under the right circumstances and sufficient time the media could get the public to support an invasion of Canada.

            • You mean, Ron Paul by chance? Yes Americans will buy another war, they buy that unemployment went down by 0.5%, are you seriously that delusional? Not that I promote drugs, but maybe you need some to see reality lol.

          • I disagree on the war part, mostly because Obama got where he is by running as an anti-war president. His base would collectively shit cinder blocks if he tried a stunt like that, and would be thrown out entirely next year. The other reason is that we already have one that’s perfectly usable for that…

            …there’s nothing that says they can’t crank up a campaign of fear based on the existing crap w/ the Taliban bits in Pakistan.

          • Mac: No need for Obummer to “take US to war”. Its coming whether WE want it or not; and sooner rather than later.

            Buy gold people. The price will spike when Israel hits Iran in a first strike.

          • Elections? Problems? Come on, that is so yesterday.

            Our leaders aren’t incompetent or stupid. Give me a break!
            Don’t you see? This is all happening ON PURPOSE. This is all THE PLAN. There is no COMING BACK from this.

            The only way to come back from this is:

            1) More people have to awaken.
            2) The leaders have to be jailed (probably for treason).
            3) Bankers have to be jailed.
            4) Regulations have to be abolished (at least until we
            climb back)
            5) Entire departments of the government need to be
            abolished forever.TSA, DHS,Education, Etc.
            6) Military budget needs to be slashed.
            7) Remove all surveillance equipment(street corners,etc)
            8) Close all fusion centers.
            9) Troops coming home should be on the Mexican border.
            10) Illegals need to go home.(this alone would create at
            least 10-12 million “shovel ready” jobs).

            Corzine should be in an orange jump suit right now. Where are the CHARGES. Why isn’t he in custody?
            You or I would be! What’s the hold up?

          • So consumers that possess the wherewithal are emptying their bank accounts to maintain their lifestyle………sounds like a good reason for TPTB to take over our retirement accounts for “our own good”. Next would be our daily accounts. That would be easier with an RFID. All to protect us from ourselves. Kinda makes ya all warm and fuzzy doesn’t it.

        • I believe your right Jim. We could have another financial collapse and the MSM would be saying all is well.

          Since the 08 election the MSM has been saying all is well. Most of the population is so classically conditioned, (brainwashed) that they believe America is one and a half years into recovery. They have no clue that in reality we can’t even see the bottom yet.

          Most Americans just won’t see it until it hits them in their face or wallet which ever happens first.

          I’m of the opinion that most of the people who comment here are smarter then the MSM commentators and economist. I also think most here are 10 times smarter then our leaders in Washington.

          The whole real time propaganda MSM is trying to paint self reliant, common sense, conservatives as nut jobs and paranoid people. Its not working as well as it use to. I thank all the commentators here for educating me.

          • I don’t believe the MSM commentators and reporters are as stupid as they look spewing when out disinformation. Every once in a while, someone like Dylan Ratigan or Rick sanrelli spouts off but I think it is all for show to keep their ratings up. They have to say what is on the telleprompter or get in the unemployment line. What really amazes is that not one senator or congressmen will stick their neck out like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich to try and get the truth out to the public and 80% of them seem to be brain dead.
            I don’t know how much it cost to produce a TV show per minute, but right now I have it on FOX business, their big story is that women would rather give up sex than go without their cell phones for one day.This is what Americans have become, a lot of zombies waiting for crap like that.

            • I’m surprised Mr. Bluto didn’t put that up first. That would be our leaders as the system collapses on them.

      2. i think only a sheeple would believe our economy has recovered. We are in the midst of a depression similar to the 30s. The difference? We now have SNAP cards, housing assistance, etc. to hide the poverty and TPTB use statistics (inappropriately) to lie about what is or is not happening in the economy. Top off this merry bag of B.S. with what is happening in the EU, and the forecast is pretty bleak.

        • “We now have SNAP cards, housing assistance, etc. to hide
          the poverty” But our debt is at an all time thanks to said programs (plus tons more BS spending).

          The forecast is bleak. I can’t tell you how many interviews I’ve heard & read lately of financial experts saying get your money OUT of the market and into land, precious metals or foreign currencies (Swiss Franc, etc.)

        • I read an article about SNAP cards. Do the math. Visualize. Line up all the people. Give them 1.75 feet in line. 47,000,000 people. The line would be 15,500 MILES LONG. (5,280 feet in a mile)

          Also – Repeal Obamacare or businesses will not come back or originate.

          MSM should all have their FCC licenses revoked. Other ones will form. They have to be regulated primarily to assure that they are “reporting the news” and “telling the truth”.

          Remove all Judges! Have a better system than where they get “elected” with nobody running against them. Have the media give vital information about their records so that the people can make in informed decision.

          Banking is a BIG PROBLEM. All banks should be non-profits. Why not? Credit Unions are.

      3. parking lots are pretty empty around where i work and where I live..
        I drive by large malls and big box stores everyday to and from work and while im out ..sure dont look like much is going on.

        • VRF – You are right on! There are some towns and cities in my mid-Atlantic state that have entire blocks and strip malls empty.

          Stunningly, on recurring business trips into areas, even the longest surviving businesses now have their buildings vacant. Just yesterday, I was shocked at the empty store fronts I drove past that were viable this past October. The rate of business closings is increasing. Yet, MSM is cheerleading an Obama recovery BS agenda.

          Take note of cars & vans in your travels. More have now become homes.

          I suspect the coming year of 2012 will be the end of my 35 yr long business as well. Since I am self-employed, I will not get unemployment bennies nor be counted among the unemployment percentages. I will just have to survive.

          • I hear ya Cntct, my convenience store is hanging on by the skin of our teeth. I don’t know how much longer I can hang on though. Used to have 14 employees, now 5 and two of those are me and my wife. Bills have not decreased (water, sewer, trash, gas, electric) nor have the taxes and fees we pay.

          • I feel ya’ 71M, I gave up in’09. Of course my business was only 7 yrs old, and the first 3 years were great. The cost of doing business was getting out of hand, low ballers doing crap work, and couldn’t compete with the foriegn work force. Finally swallowed my pride, and went back to work for some else doing cheap-ass work. Construction industry is taking a beating. The bad thing is that I think in a few years we may look at today as “the good ol’ days.”

          • I don’t see that at all here in NC. Looks like business is booming everywhere I look. I often wonder where the money still comes from.

            • where are you?i’moutside of charlotte in quote one of the fastest growing counties in the nation! AND I STILL see the lack of jobs and slow growth happening now as in ’08. i see people now having to make choicesabout whether to buy food or meds. abattery for their car or atank of gas to getback to the part time job this week. i’m like you though. i wonder how southpark or carolina place malls still stay busy when most of us are busting our butts to prep ona budget. take care my friend.

        • Dunno… the local parking lots around here (PDX, west side) are packed to the rafters, and people are in their usual grumpy ‘buy! buy! buy!’ mood as they hunt down ‘bargains’.

          I suspect that it’s a regional thing. Out here, the tech industry dominates, and tech unemployment is way low (unlike general unemployment in other fields, which is through the rafters).

      4. This is a bullshit article. Stores are packed here and its hard to get parking spots

        • Well yeah.

          (In your world)

          • what else do I have to go by you jackass ? Of course in my world

        • this is a bullshit post, store doors are being boarded up here and the homeless are burning fires in the parking lots to stay warm

          • Tech == unemployment and living in your car.

      5. Wellfare at (approximate) 47%
        Percent of Americans paying taxes (approximate) 47%
        When these numbers hit 51%, we will be a socialist nation.
        Looking out of my window, that will not be long.
        The economy SUCKS! I actually have put myself on a budget, trying not to go backwards. I use to eat out at lunch every day at work. Not now, only once last week, probally about the same this week. If I come in under my budget for the week, I can spend the rest on prepping. Last week bought a couple hundred bullets for reloading with the remainder of my budget for the week. Worked out for the gun shop, bad for the people I used to by lunch at. We will not see a change until (If) we elect another President. Even then changes will take years. Alot depends on Europe though. I might be crazy as a loon, but it sure feels good any chance I get to prep!

        • Correction

          Percent of Americans “NOT” paying taxes (approximate) 47%

          • This is because they’re not taxable. Homeless, working poor, single moms, disabled, etc etc etc if you flat-out don’t make enough, you don’t pay Federal income taxes. You may still pay:

            state income tax
            Sales tax
            Hotel/motel/lodging tax (thank you Mr Homeless Person for renting a room for your weekly good sleep and shower, $13 of the cost was tax!)
            all kinds of weird and wheedling little taxes

      6. They say I am a “consumer”. They say I an a “tax payer”. They say I am “the american people”. They say I am the “unemployed”. They say they care about “the children”. When the politicians speak we hear “we” “us”. It should be obvious to all people in the usa that “they” see citizens when “they” look in the mirror, and see consumers, people, and tax payers when “they” look out the window. I AM NOT A CONSUMER, I AM A MAN. I cannot say I am a free man, I am not like those poloticians,thousands of federal employees, and GE. I HAVE TO PAY TAXES! I say F*CK THEM AND THEIR CONSUMER!

        • “I cannot say I am a free man,”

          That is very sad for you. My prized possession is my freedom. I don’t carry papers on me anywhere I go. I travel in my pick up, which is my home on the road (thus protected as a home rather than a statutory commercial vehicle). I have secured my financial privacy when dealing with the corp.

          If you are not free, what is there to protect? If you are not free, why are you not fighting for escape?

          So long as you continue to live under the corp laws and pay for your own slavery, you shall be a voluntary slave.

      7. The consumer and those watching what’s going on won’t fall for a recovery blitzed by the media. I see many desperate people everywhere, and the media begging for people to drop off a can of peaches. I saw a food drive the other day and they were pleading for jars of peanut butter. WTF! I can hardly afford a jar of peanut butter much less go and buy a jar and give it away. I was thinking, the desperate have SNAP, EBT, WIC, on and on. They can buy their own peanut butter, lobster, steak, and cocoapuffs. Oh, and no one is buying the unemployed BS. 11% unemployment is what we have right now. They can rig the numbers but they can’t rig the truth. Best survival stuff to have is beans, bullets and bandaids.

        • You will get what you voted for.

          • We already got what you voted for: $4,000,000,000,000 of debt and not much to show for it – that of course unless you are a union guy, solar manufacturer, or on extended unemployment that was intended for 6 months and goes on for 2 years (for union people).

      8. Here in the Kansas City area the malls and outlet stores I’ve been to recently are packed with people buying the traditional Christmas clutter & gifts. It makes me wonder how many of them are concerned about the economy and everything going on in the EU.

        At our local Cabelas the lines at the check out were so long that they had employees guiding customers to each register to keep line jumpers in check. But the thing that I thought was really curious was how many people seemed to be buying ammo. Kind of a funny stocking stuffer I guess.

        • Newaroundhere: I agree with you about Cabelas. I go in there to get deals on good/solid clothing, hunting, camping equipment and items for my bob.

          What Christmas presents I will be buying, will come from Cabelas to help family members and friends prep more.

          But I don’t purchase crap from the Wal-Mart any more. My money may not be worth much, but it’s worth more then crap!

          I just went to CostCo for my 2 month purchases. Half of these purchases will go into storage and more preps for Christmas Presents.

          God bless and keep on prepping.

      9. If you repeat a lie loud enough and long enough, somebody is going to believe it!! Really??

        Ask any car salesman. How are you doing this month? His reply will always be, sales are great, I haven’t had a better month. The same with real estate people. They will never tell you actually how things/sales are going. Now to the crux, this is what Obiewan and company are doing. Despite what we see around us, what we know, as bad as it is. What do they keep doing? They keep screaming some wild numerical factoids. Knowing full well there is nobody that can substantiate said factoids. They know we are all are limited to our own little spans’ and we know little else beyond that other than what we see in the news. Either on TV, radio or the internet. All they have to do is infect the news sources and they are comfortable they will be believed. Obamas whole thing is built on a continuous lie, thinking if they beat us down long enough they can control us. Me personally, I think he is in for a long hard road. The jig is up so to speak and we are going to pull his ass into the light and expose him for what he is. I don’t believe Obama has ever known the American spirit. All he knows is colligate theory posed by some lofty professor. Wake up big boy, this is the real world and Americans aren’t going to put up with this lying bullshit much more.

      10. In response to MAC stating obimbo getting reelected, he will short of all peoples waking up. I am sorry voting is not going too work. Voting is setup, its there to make you think there’s a choice. Until we the people take it back, They call the shots! Remember the golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules!

        • I got a great way to prove the voting deal is bullshit..problem is trying to get 75% of the US population to do this….Vote for yourself..

          and when it shows that we end up with “one of them” the scam is out in the light of day

          or better yet, have 75% vote for Elmer Fudd

          • Vote for Elmer Fudd! That would be hilarious to see show up in the polls!

            On a serious note, the electoral college elects TPOTUS, the “general election” results are basically a poll. Lots of folks get bent out of shape when I write this, but it is the truth.

            So, in the end, even if we all vote for Elmer Fudd, we will end up with one of them.

          • If you think about it small towns are dying off, if you move to a bigger city then it is a slow death in which it is what they want, less work for them to search for you, the cities are and can be controlled easier then rural towns logistically. As I have said before 72 hours before the declaration of H.R. 645, they have justified it now with S. 1867 and H.R 1540 to either bug out or bug in it just a matter of time before they call check in this game, look at the past articles of KBR seeking workers for the FEMA camps. At this point voting wont work anymore the system is proving it with the passage of S. 1867, we want our country back but words are not going to get it back anytime soon from the military protected elite ruining our freedoms.
            Now should be enough time left to figure out a B.O.L. or muster point since we have been prepping for years If you plan to stay put and not leave be safe, but those comforts wont last long in my opinion. And right now our biggest problem is going to be the remote drones county sheriffs are currently training to use, these will recon the rural areas so boots do not have to at first. After all this is just an opinion but the lies and cover ups are going to be unraveling so fast that the sheeple are not going to know what to do,I’d imagine they are tired of kicking this can down the road . I want the best for the future as everyone else is but, we might want to think about being mobile or making you B.O.L as comfortable as your own home if thats what your worried about. Well back to prepping…

            Good Bless America

        • Thanks–Copout–I didn’t want to ruin their illusion that they ‘really’ make a difference…but they must wake up and realize the next pres if already chosen by TPTB…
          Compromised electronic machines…tech is kicking our butts.

          • When will the builderburgers meet to choose our new prez?

            • they already have. we just gotta wait for them to inform us of our new glorious leader.i’m starting to think voting with my ar might be the last legal vote i get[lol,sarc].

      11. This afternoon we in the UK have been told that inflation has dropped to 4.8%. This in my co sierras opinion is total crap. Week on week the basics are getting more and more expensive,fuel is going up every other week, heating gas and electricity has risen 20% and 9% respectively in the last four months. A bog standard loaf of very cheap White bread is now £0.85,not much you might think but it was £0.19 at the start of this year.

        Maths has never been my strong point but can someone please explain to me how this has caused inflation to go down?

        Looking forward to hearing from you lol

        Take care x

        • Carolie(uk),

          It is really simple. They are cheating with the statistics. All the non essential stuff counts as well. Mobile phones, TV-sets, toys, cars and all kind of electronics are a part of that calculation.

          The bad thing is that you can`t eat you i-phone or heat your house properly by burning your plasma TV.

        • Carolie (UK)

          Take it from someone who has a Masters in Business and Mathematics. You can make percentages and statistics say anything you want them to. It just takes a little ‘tweaking’. 🙂

      12. Everyone should apply for SNAP and the like. If it is granted it can be used for preps. Or it just might overwhelm the system as per Cloward and Piven.

      13. What in he’ll is co sierras. Does anyone know how to remove predictive text from an IPad ?

        • I was wondering the same thing!LOL

      14. Hello All,
        Things are booming in the consulting engineering businessand in Houston in general. All indications say it will through the next year.
        All the pipeyards are cranking out the pipe like there is no tomorrow. Boatloads of 18 wheelers hauling pipe.
        Shopping malls and restaurants are always full. Brnad new cars everywhere.

        This may well be because Houston is an energy Oil & Gas center. I do know some buddies that have had hard times and still not recovered. I was lucky to be employed the last two+ years, some were not and lost homes, everything they had.

        All the above does not make me believe the country is recovering, just means this particular time is one of OUR cyclical highs. Our meaning Oil and Gas and the engineering that goes with it. Much of our engineering is going to be shipped to China to finish at a certain point. We have at least a year of employment.

        In the mean time, I’m preppin for whatever comes. I have the business of selling custom multi-purpose distillation columns, for water, antiseptic ethanol or fuel grade as well.
        I no longer offer stailess steel units, just can’t risk weld contamination doing copper and SS at same time. Am busy in all my spare time. Will be taking a break during these Christmas holidays, but will work some on the orders I have. I have to take daughter deer and wild hog hunting. We make our own jerky, pan sausage, as well as other types of sausage.

        As far as the politicians, they are all on the wrong side, you can see the lies on their face when the talk. Sometimes not though.

        I will vote for Perry, Bachman or Ron Paul….not Romney not the salamander larval fat boy.

        I’ll say, if Obama gets elected again, my buddys up in Canada may be right, as they admit they are afraid of two thing, one being a currency failure, the second would be A SECOND AMERICAN CIVIL WAR…they freaked me out when they admitted that. But it is entirely possible, too many peeps are PISSED OFF!

        As for me, prep, and live in the today. Time will tell us what is coming, good or bad or worse. We can only act and vote, act or react as things happen.

        I hope for the best but prepare for the worst, survival of my family being most important. Survival for like minded people being a close second as we need to stick together.

        East Texas here, Big Thicket…I’m in the heart of it when not in Houston.

        Anyone can contact me through my website for any reason.

        Also, Mac is one of my best friends via this site and one of my customers, anyone wanting a reference to see if any I post is right and true and EVERYTHING on my website is TOTALLY accurate, just ask Mac.

        God Bless you and keep you, merry Christmas,


        • I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, if Ron paul is not on the ticket, I’ll use my independent vote for Obama, there’s no reason to change captians on a sinking ship as anyone but R Paul will be just more of the same.Debt and destruction.

          • Horse CRAP… if you vote for that socialist, you are dooming the country and visiting destruction on your own life. While the alternatives may not be palatable as we would like; anyone short of Satan himself is preferable to the detroyer of lives that currently lives in OUR WH.

            Mark my words… if BHO retains the office; we will experience things that will make the great depression look like a picnic. The country will be ripped apart at the seams. Careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

            • Sam

              If you think any of those other monkeys will be any different that Obomba, them you’re really out of touch,If you’ve been paying any attention at all, have you heard any of them say they were going to cut spending or do any of the things that need to be done to get America back on the tracks.?

          • It’s a damn shame that Ron Paul is getting absolutely f***ed over by the mainstream media. When they’re not irresponsibly and unfairly painting him as quack, they’re simply ignoring him. He’s simply too dangerous for the establishment to ever find success. They’ll find a way to marginalize him no matter how much grass roots support he generates.

            • I don’t even live in the states and even I think Ron Paul is great, if you guys don’t vote him in instead of obama can we have him as a replacement for CamerLOON please? Ta very much

              Take care x

          • the survivor, I to only want to see RP get the nomination. Newt is just a light skinned BHO. Romney flip flops as much as a fish out of water. Bachmann seems to be more concerned with gay marriage than our loss of liberties. Perry attended Bilderburger, and is really a globalist.

            But mark my words if BHO gets a second term He and Killery will go after the second amendment as aggressively as the commies did.

            And you know what that means the tree of liberty will be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots.

            As Sam said be careful what you wish for…

            • Precisely, RWS… at this point, our choices are between Hell and purgatory.. I would cut off both arms before voting FOR BHO..

          • ~Survivor~

            Interesting enough, today I heard a modified take, somewhat similar to ‘your perspective’.
            Was working in a large mfg plant in Gastonia NC, wrapping-up on converting a PLC controlled machine to a Windows based touch-screen PC control. During lunch, was talking w/ the plant engineer ( he’s 61 & a former A-1E driver in ‘Nam)…

            …anyways, he indicated that should the republican party fail to select Ron Paul as their choice, he’s gonna vote for B-A-W-K Obama!!!

            I inquired as to ‘why’ & he replied, in all seriousness (QUOTE):…”because a 2nd B-A-W-K Obama term will result in CIVIL WAR-II & I ain’t gettin’ any younger, so if its a fight the communists in govt desires…I want it soon, real soon! While I’m still healthy enough to actively participate!!!!!!!!!!”

            Needless to say, we exchanged contact data.

            • Hey Gunsmith, I live in Gaston co. There are many here who expect a civil war, especially if BHO is re-elected.

            • we need to to cross paths. MAC giv’em both my email adress PLEASE.

      15. The stores have to slice prices by 60%-70% to get anyone into the malls. Black Friday looked good, but upon further review, not much traffic at the mall by me. In fact, very little traffic. I heard an analyst on the radio yesterday say the stores in the mall are doing poorly this year. Spin that MSM.

      16. depends on location and business cycles. in my town everything is slow and bare. Go two towns over and the stores are packed.

      17. Retail spending is not a good indicator of the economy as most people are shopping for Christmas and the products are made in China. Until manufacturing returns, there will be no true recovery.

      18. “Gods of the Copybook Headings” (Kipling)

        AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
        I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
        Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
        And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

        We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
        That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
        But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
        So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

        We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
        Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
        But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
        That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

        With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
        They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
        They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
        So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

        When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
        They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
        But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
        And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.”

        On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
        (Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
        Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
        And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”

        In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
        By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
        But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
        And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”

        Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
        And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
        That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
        And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

        As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
        There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
        That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
        And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

        And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
        When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
        As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
        The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

      19. I live in DC and it blows my mind how much of a prosperity bubble this place is. Most of my family lives in the midwest, and when going “home” to visit them, it’s simply shocking to see how different people’s economic circumstances are. I’ll be honest and say that it’s easy to get sucked into the bubble, and forget how rough of shape the rest of the country is in. If I wasn’t moving to (gasp) Europe in the next few months, I’d be shopping for land in West Virginia right now. I’m new to the prepper scene, but I’m starting to come around and realize that it’s only a matter of time before Washington is forced to wake up and smell the coffee. I have to agree with the conclusion of the post above, 2012 won’t be pretty.

        • Dan, good luck for the future. As an aside I have totally refused to call myself European for years, I am English, now CamerLOON has done the one decent thing since coming to power, even though he only did it to piss off little nicky (sarkozy)and big nicky (clegg) I will once again officially be referred to by real Europeans as English, or at least British. Every cloud and all that crap. I have nothing against Europe but I really get effed off being told I have to use kilos instead of pounds and all that goes with it.

          This is true, our fruit and veg have to be official shapes…I kid you not, bananas have to have a certain degree of curve not o straight and not too bendy….I swear to God you could not make it up.

          Take care x

        • Dan: As any good dog will tell you. “You don’t crap in your own home.”

          That’s why DC is doing so good.

      20. The increase in sales figures doesn’t cover the cost of inflation even if you use the “official rate” which doesn’t include food or energy. The last I checked the only things you couldn’t live without where food and energy, and the cost of these are on a steady uphill climb.
        Pre 2007 if you drove within a 1/2 mile of a mall between black Friday and New Years it was like driving thru quicksand. Now it’s no problem sure theres more people than at anyother time of the year, but theres no where near enough to put the books in the black for 2011.

        I’ll vote for Ron Paul barring that I’ll vote against Obama.

      21. Ron Paul will not be the Republican candidate unless 90 million gun owners register as Republicans and vote for him in their State’s primary.

        Register now!

        • Damn it, I’m starting to agree with you more each day.

          • Without political organization and political power, “Patriots” will be marginalized, demonized, incarcerated, and eliminated; one way or the other, one by one if necessary.

            America cannot be set on its correct, intended, original path by violence. That is what the PTB want: an excuse to further erode OUR personal liberties.

            There must be a political element to the rebirth of the American Revolution: including mass demonstrations, civil disobedience, and yes, voting.

            Those of you you have nothing but criticism for the political process have already been marginalized by the PTB. You have played right into their strategy to control you.

            Your spirit is broken, you are psychologically impaired, you have accepted defeat without a fight: classic Sun Tse.

            You are losers. Armchair patriots sitting on their hands catching farts, posting defeat and acquiessense.

            How pitiful.

            • @Durango: They ain’t listening, they won’t listen, it is not gonna change by crying to senators, congressmen or any other bureaucrat. Voting is a freaking lie. Their God is money and power. I watched the tea party, I watched Glenn becks rally, what the $%# * did it accomplish, nothing, THEY AIN’T LISTENING! It is a cancer, it needs surgery! Never mind I think theres been enough talk. Merry Christmas hope the best for you and family. Oh and by the way they will never ever break my spirit, ever!

            • I have to agree with DK on some of this, although I would have said it much more nicely. 😉

              There are a lot of things that we can be doing to wake people up. Making lots of noise is one of them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, you know.

              We all do a lot of complaining about how things are, but with a few notable exceptions, nobody is actually taking actions.

              Don’t let the phrase “armchair patriot” apply to you. Make a commitment to take some action, whether it’s addressing your city council, calling your member of Congress (A LOT!!!) writing letters to the editor of your local paper, or something way bigger than any of these things. Talk to your ladies group at church. Make nuisance of yourself someplace.

              I know, I’m going to get all sorts of people telling me how naive I am, and I’m cool with that. When I stop being an idealist, then I’ve given up too.

            • Copout: That is why Patriots must have their own political party: a third “leg” on the stool to provide the balance WE need.

              The NWO has co-opted both the Republican and Democratic parties. There is no such thing anymore as “Republicans” or “Democrats”. That is a false division.

              There are only Patriots and Globalists.

              Patriots believe in America and will WORK for it. Globalists work for themselves, special interests, and the NWO.

              This third party (either the Constitution Party, or America First) must be engaged in earnest for the LOCAL level, for Congressional seats all across America, not Presidential Politics.

              The quickest way to begin to change OUR direction is to join the Republican party and vote in your State primary for Ron Paul.

              The long term goal for Patriots must be their own political party (as stated) to prepare a basis for a return to Constitutional government, by controlling a portion of the Congress.

            • “There Are Only Patriots and Globalists”

              That says it all.

      22. The so-called recovery and unemployment figures are just the results of creative math, a sharp pencil and a good erasure. Still, I never cease to be amazed at the numbers of brain dead Americans who fall for this crap. I look forward to seeing their heads implode when the collapse comes.

      23. Mark your calenders! Obama will get re-elected becuase no standing president has lost when war has been declared! Having said that, war with Iran will happen next year 2012 before elections!

      24. Really Hmmmm so how’s those 0% rates workin out again?

        So who is spending? the un-employed aren’t, except on the usual bills, the workin poor spend the same, the lower 99% are savin as best they can and the retirees are seein their savings sittin still so they sure can’t keep spendin except for the usual bills.

        I remember being told about the 3 stools, SS, savings, and a pension (if your lucky to have one) well with 0% on savings one of the legs aren’t there now for retirees so they aren’t spending.

        The only ones I see spending are the clowns who can’t do with out a new Iphone every time it comes out, or the upper 99%’ers

        (BTW I saw a blog that said the 99% is income up to 500K a year, are you S–tin me!, damn than what are people at 50K a year doin in the 99% , smirks)

        So again my little SOB (Smart Old Banker) Bernak how’s those super low rates on savers workin out for ya?

        • Actually, the low rates are working exactly as planned. Get the money, pay nothing for it, buy T-bills at 2.5%, and keep it all. And pay for the Obama deficit at the same time. Two-Fer !

      25. the survivor says…. I don’t believe the MSM commentators and reporters are as stupid as they look…………… good Lord, I hope not.

      26. Horrible as it is to say, a sharp increase in consumer spending could be the first sign of a hyperinflationary spiral. I’d just as soon it stayed flat.

      27. There are many reasons that the economy is not going to come back.

        1. 10,000 Baby Boomers are retiring every day. They are not making money to tax, they are pulling it out of the system.

        2. Any economy that expands through debt eventually runs out of available debt and money to expand anymore.

        3. The manufacuring base that America became wealthy on , in the first place, has gone out of the country. That same manufacturing base that made America rich, is now giving the poor from other countrys a slightly better lifestyle then poor. Someone is making lots of money here.

        4. Americans do not have the patience to work, save and look foreward to afording the worth while things in life. We are an instant civilization. If we can’t have it now, to enjoy for a little while before tossing it aside to make room for the next tech rage. Then we will protest on Wall Street.

        Many civilizations in the past have gone through what America is going through right now. We are just another failed civilization among many to end up here.

        God bless and keep on prepping.

      28. Went shopping today with a friend. Not many people in the stores. The few people that were there weren’t buying much (like us!). I have never been in the stores when salespeople would come running up saying “Can I help you? Please?!”

      29. Mona: “Someone is making lots of money here.”

        That someone is the 6,000 richest families in America (top .002%) who have enriched themselves by the amount of $100 million dollars EACH over the past 30 years through FREE TRADE.

        The Gangster Banksters, the Multinational Corporate Managers and Corporate Directors have also profiteered while the income of the average American has declined; in actual dollars and not just in real terms.

        Consider also that the sovereign welfare given to China $300 billion and Mexico $100 billion last year actually represents a subsidy to firms owned by these individuals and families.

        The American taxpayer is being financially raped at every turn by the ruling class.

        Death to Traitors! (after a speedy trial of course) a show of hands will suffice!!! 🙂

      30. I’m not racist but I think a lot of people really thought obama would change and be that special different guy and believed him since he was different or black. A lot of people voted for him because they felt sorry for always having a white person in office and voted black. Keep prepping guys and get a cheap inverter to hookup to a battery if power goes out and a solar panel to recharge the battery such as a car. Put your tip on here each day and I bet if we get one from someone it can make a change or a difference. People that are not serious stay off this

        • I read about increases in the past years of our utilities, etc, …blah…blah..blah…
          So, I campared my 2010 to 2011 electric bills…yep–12 months…an increase of $400!!!
          That’s a 38% increase the way I figure add that increase across the ins., homeowners, water, garbage, prop. taxes, phone/internet, propane….and tell me how folks in my income bracket are making it.
          No movies, no dinners out, no entertainment at all, no new clothes, fewer haircuts, and all the things that help this nation thrive—that’s why this nation will never recover until we GET RID of the problem and stop trying to treat it. JOBS–we need jobs.

      31. @Durango: Look your comments really pissed me off, I want to kick the s%@t out of these bastards so bad, I can’t even see straight. I have always voted republican. It is like an NFL owner owning both teams. And before you call me a quitter listen, I was a good cop, the only thing I ever wanted to do, and that same system chewed me up and spit me out, big mistake brother. All the guys I worked with new not to push too hard, forget all that, why do you belittle people,I hate it, this country is done sans the fighting, I am sorry hope and change won’t work, do and keep on doing will work. God is looking doers not talkers, I hope and pray this country will turn back to him, as well as myself, because I feel so far from him, my strength, my rock, my fortress!

        • Copout ~

          I don’t think that comment was directed towrds you.

          Sometimes a call to action sounds like calling someone on. Sometimes it’s a challenge to “put your money where your mouth is.”

          It sounds to me that you ARE a person who takes action, which has caused you problems. But it hasn’t knocked you down because you are still here, seeking knowledge and sharing what you know!

          While I agree with Durango’s point, he perhaps could have been a bit more tactful.

          *Daisy scowls at DK for bein’ mean*

          • Daisy: I’m back from dinner. I’m a meanie? Does this mean you are not going to send me a Christmas card this year?

            Copout: I know I push your buttons sometimes. Know that I am not singling YOU out, but I will shame, beg, plead, cajole or insult anyone and everyone I have to if I think it will move them to action! 🙂

            Don’t take it personally, but take it to heart. There’s a difference. Find that difference and make a difference right where you are. LOCALLY.

            The answer to OUR dilemma all across America is local in nature, because politics is local in character.

            My peeps WE do have both the time and opportunity to begin to change the direction of this country, preserve OUR liberties, and pass them on to many more generations of Americans. WE have the numbers.

            Every generation of Americans have been called to action to protect the Constitution and all of the freedoms that it embodies for US.

            The difference this time is that WE must protect it from our own elected and paid managers who have committed treason against it and US.

            This has been occurring for sometime, but the NWO has overplayed its hand, made mistakes, and Americans ARE now aware. And they want to do something about it.

            There has never been a better time to take the nation back from the PTB and put US on the right path again.

            I have tried to point out a couple of strategies that would move US in the right direction:

            1. Join the Republican Party in your State and vote for Ron Paul in your Primary. Paul may have some short comings, and he is not my perfect candidate, but in a group of idiots he stands out as a genius!

            2. Investigate a third party like America First or the Constitution party. Read their platform. America First excites me.

            3 The way forward is filled with difficulties, but remember the hardships faced by the Founding Fathers. Their struggle lasted for more than a decade and required much more of them than that which is now required of US.

            Call WE make some phone calls? Can WE make some signs? Can WE post this strategy on other sites and pass the word?

            How much effort is required to join the Retards and vote for Ron Paul in your State Republican Primary?

            If anyone is unwilling to do that much, they deserve to be slaves, economic serfs, and victims; bereft of their rights and liberties, living on government handouts, and paying taxes on top of their taxes.

            • Maybe a card, Durango, but no cookies!!!

        • why did you lose your job?

        • ~DK~ (in support of Copout)

          DK…sir, lets take a nickel tour to remind everyone of a few items they may have forgotten or missed!

          NOTE: I am not flaming you…merely pointing out a small handful of object lessons / examples to chew on, all of which can be easily verified via a little (sleuthing) effort.

          If the ballot box actually worked in our favor……

          ….do you honestly think that today’s congress-critter would be able to retire after one complete term w/ full benefits…(i.e.) full salary & 100% free health care for themselves & their spouses for life?
          While military retirees only get 1/2 of their max rank pay & a piss-poor health care package they have to partially fund on their own!
          I ask you sir, who’s putting whose ass on the line, so we have a so-called ballot box option?

          —-and who really deserves the ‘sweetheart’ deal—-

          (hint)…its not the f**king politicians, sir! What’s wrong with this picture?

          Why didn’t the ballot-box option protect us from “PATRIOT ACTS I & II or the John Warner Defense Authorization Act a few years ago?
          What about the wording in the bill currently sitting on B-A-W-K Obama’s desk, awaiting a signature…..oddly only a few here, who picked up on the verbiage allowing military personnel to freely bugger animals w/o fear of UCMJ consequences? What about flaming in-your-face homosexuals being protected species in the combat arms? What about the right of satanic religious services on post too (its allowed)!?!

          Why didn’t the ballot-box prevent the Senate from confirming an anti-human ‘RUTH BADER-GINSBURG’ to the Supreme Court many years ago….especially, since amongst her pre-SQ writings / opinions, she opined that the age of sexual consent be lowered to “12”???
          So now we’re saddled w/ a Godless pedophile on the court?
          Ditto, for the idiot who wrote the majority opinion (Stevens…maybe?) on the “KELO vs. New London decision, which grants local govt the ability to “TAKE” your land & sell it to another for development purposes…so local govt can reap the benefits of an increased tax base!
          Please give me an example where the ballot-box has protected the HONEST INDIVIDUAL AMERICAN in the 20th-21st century!!!!!!!!

          …and perhaps most importantly, why hasn’t the ballot-box protected the most innocent & defenseless of all GOD’s creation, from rampant & continuous slaughter…the unborn!

          I could go on ad infinitum, but its getting late & I have another job in the a.m.

          —-In defense of Copout—-

          Cut the guy some slack DK.
          As a cop, he’s had to deal w/ the scum of humanity for countless shifts & then navigate the minefield of the (laughable) lawyer enriching / US court system, only to see bad perps WALK!
          He took an oath too you know & likely, seen the elephant up close!

          The system is broken, DK…its infected w/ a terminal case of corruption & high treason & the inmates in govt are running the asylum. Its neigh time for a system re-boot!

          —and they have left us ONE OPTION ONLY—

          …unfortunately, that last option requires something missing in much of modern amerikan society…its called COURAGE! My reading of the bible informs me that GOD doesn’t take kindly to cowards & while I’m far from being a good Christian (‘cuz I drink, cuss & have bad thoughts), I understand that one day…I am going to kneel before him in judgment & I will be judged for both what I’ve done…..& what I’ve failed to do!

          ….and I want to be able to say:….”Yes Lord, I honestly tried to change things down there….I wasn’t a coward!”


          P.S.) I intend to try the ballot-box one last time! If Ron Paul isn’t on it…I’m outta the game!

          • The ballot box, in my estimation, has been worthless since at least the time of JFK. He stood up to the Fed and the military-industrial complex and took a bullet to the brain for it. The same thing would happen to Ron Paul or anyone even a fraction as real as him.

          • Gunsmith: Yes the political and economic systems are broken. They are broken due to OUR neglect.

            You change the oil in your car. You replace the tires when they are worn. You wash and wax it and give it your attention and it serves you well. When you ignore it, it breaks down.

            WE have ignored OUR political system to the point that it has corroded OUR economic system and corrupted OUR elected officials who WE pay to serve US; yet who now threaten the very freedoms WE cherish.

            This isn’t about Copout. This is about US. I have challenged Copout, as I have others here over time, to get involved. I was easy on Copout, because he has a thin skin.

            I have admonished others harshly to quit pissing, moaning, crying, and complaining here over time. These are a loser’s response to a crisis. These are the response’s that the PTB want the Sheeple to express.

            The PTB want US to cower, fear, and despair. They want US to believe that OUR vote doesn’t count and OUR opinions and actions do not matter.

            Most of all they want the Sheeple to spread the fear and despair to others; especially by posting it on the Internet.

            It is classic Sun Tse. It is psychological warfare. It is the BIG lie.

            What the PTB don’t want is for US to raise OUR voices in protest, especially to protest Wall Street. What they don’t want US to do is organize. Communicate. Volunteer. Donate. Most of all, they do not want US to VOTE.

            The problems in America are not too great to be addressed. They are not insurmountable. These problems were created by US and they can be corrected by US. They cannot be corrected overnight, but WE can begin overnight to address them.

            What the PTB fear is that Americans will take to the streets to demand justice.

            What the PTB fear is that Americans will demand THEIR heads: by incarceration or worse.

            What the PTB fear is that Americans will create New Political structures to take control of their country once more.

            What the PTB fear is that One American will post his or her greivances on the WEB in an articulate way, give hope to others, and galvanize a group; a city, a nation, to take their country back.

            Hope is a dangerous thing when it is combined with faith and courage and action.

            WE have a GREAT OPPORTUNITY to recaptured the American Spirit and the American Dream of free men and women endowed with personal liberty; and manifest it in the Earth once more.

            I have no sympathy for those who refuse to engage OUR government because WE are the government. I have no sympathy for those who bemoan their fate.

            I have only destain for those who spread their fears and despair looking for therapy on the Internet.

            Why despair when you can pray? And when you are through praying, after you have renewed your spirit by contact with the Spirit of Almighty God, it is time to go forth and DO.

            WE only need to change the management team running OUR Corp. And if WE cannot find a suitable replacement from among those who want the job, then WE must grow OUR own through new political structures.

            90 million gun owners hold the future of America in their hands: it is the power of numbers. It is the power of collective action.

            It is the power of the vote.

        • Copout—Please don’t give up on God–He has a plan…and we don’t know it—but He may be the only one to save this damned is damned by the communist congress and I pray EVERY night for Him to show Himself and smite these evil bastards…yep–I pray for the congressionsal members, all communist leaders in our country to be smited–whatever that means—I’ll leave it to God to figure it out.
          Please, don’t give up–we went through an entire year with no took our savings(in the mattress), we sold a car, 4-wheeler, and our beloved motorcycle..but we came through and are now living from week to week.
          I like to think God looked down on us and helped us through because we didn’t give up–God helps those who help themselves. Peace to all in Copouts’ position…I pray for you EVERY night. It’s not all that rosy here, dh has beginning stages of dementia..but I can find lots of situations much worse..paralyzed friend in nursing home from stroke..Peace.

          • @JJ AND Gunsmith: Thank you both for the support and kind words, I will not give up, i do see the situation for what it is. I have been in jail when i was younger, and later on in life put people in jail who deserved it. I have been on both sides and see where I need to be, There are some good in all walks of life, but as you can see, the love of many will wax worse and worse. Jesus went into the temple and chased the money changers out with a whip, turning tables over at the same time. He wasnt standing there using diplomacy and usless fluff. This is all i am saying. Thanks too you both, enjoys your loved ones this Christmas, and God bless you both!

            • ~Copout~

              Never surrender your integrity, honor or your devotion to truth!
              As in the end, it will be experienced folks such as you & the many vets(especially those hardcore ‘jar-heads’) posting here, who’ll likely be a sizable portion of the ‘adult supervision’ needed to change the course of our floundering country!

              Unfortunately, I guess I’m a pessimist really, as its been my experience in 50+ years of life, that the only thing tyranny respects is…a force capable of extreme violence, in opposition to their own……coupled with a willingness to use…said violence! GOD bless you & yours.

          • JJ – I’m sorry to hear about DH. You have a lot on your plate. (((hugs)))

      32. @Daisy: Hi young lady, pushing others buttons is not conducive to having a rational conversation, I know look how out of control I got. I hate feeling this way, I feel guilty. I think the talking is a politicians meat and potatoes. In my old job I never had a challenge, because I showed respect, now if they saw my warring angel behind me, then he gets the credit. My hope is things were turn here in the U.S. for the better, but this is a fight, and I plan on winning. My flesh goes to dust, this is a spiritual battle, I would no sooner allow my grandchildren, neighbours, you or any other innocent be harmed. We all are here at this very time on earth for a purpose, some good some bad. I was never good with speech, and I guess it shows. Wow I think I finally calmed down, you have a way about you young lady! All joking aside thanks, a lot of emotions today!

        • I think you’re just fine with speech.

          My brain-to-fingers filter works better than some people’s. My brain-to-mouth filter, well, that’s another story…..just ask some of the people I run into at work!

      33. Its time to start making some noise Bang bang bang

      34. You see it at the major chain general retailers. NIL cars in parking lot of long-busy Sears, KMart. Few customers even at Wally World locally now.
        Only enclosed mall in this county largely vacant, too.
        NO sign the depression’s over or of “recovery.”

      35. I spent a few hours taking an air conditioner/heater unit apart, it was on the roof of my office trailer and only making it leak, so it came down and I’ve sealed up etc the roof.

        So, yesterday, I decided to make it go away and took it apart. Took the two cores and random copper tubing today to the recycler. They were good stuff, I got $10.80. That’s all I got.

        I’d also spent some *more* hours yesterday taking a bunch of old disk and hard drives apart, mainly for the cast aluminum frame they’re built on. I now have a box of frames I might get $5 for, and a bunch of gears, springs, neato looking stuff, so I put that in a bag and took it with me, in case selling AC stuff is illegal in California, I’d not be skunked. Well, the neato stuff went to an antique store, they do “steampunk” stuff sometimes, or their kids do. It was a lot of stuff but still, all I was able to get was $10.

        $20. Two days’ living. I mean, I can live far longer on $20, but I have a theory that $10/day is going to become the new American living wage.

        I spent $2.14 on lunch.

        And rode my bicycle home again so I didn’t use any gas.

        And I’m the upper-middle-class of the new army of improvisers and scroungers.

        You can’t keep much of an economy going on people who spend $2 in town on lunch once a week, and scrounge up junky metal to sell to, ultimately, China.

        (And for the curious and I don’t blame you, I don’t apply for, use, or want, ANY gov’t aid.)

        • Nice story. Someone recently discarded an old aluminum-framed table saw and a busted aluminum wheel next to the dumpster at my apartment complex. After removing the practically worthless steel parts from the table saw, I got $40 at the recycler.

          • Wow it must have been heavy! You probably got 30c- 40c a lb for it.

            Good on you! It was probably frozen up anyway and I’d not bank on tools that need grid-power to run.

      36. 1. Join the Republican Party in your State and vote for Ron Paul in your Primary. Paul may have some short comings, and he is not my perfect candidate, but in a group of idiots he stands out as a genius!

        2. Investigate a third party like America First or the Constitution party. Read their platform. America First excites me.

        3 The way forward is filled with difficulties, but remember the hardships faced by the Founding Fathers. Their struggle lasted for more than a decade and required much more of them than that which is now required of US.

        BULLSHIT–BULLSHIT–BULLSHIT—I don’t have the tact Gunsmith has…screw voting and the horse it rode in on—did our protest stop any of the unconstitutional acts in the last 20 years?? I DON’T FRICKING THINK SO–there is no longer a republic of rule of law–it is a democracy run by special interest groups and corporations.

      37. We live in a propaganda society. Our MSM has made the Gulf Oil Spill, Fukishima, Occupy Wall Street, Depression Redux and anything counter to our happy go lucky mantra disappear. Soon they will kill the last vestiges of the internet and truth will be stifled completely.

      38. Hold on tight gentlemen,the ride is going to get even bumpier!!!

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