“All The Prepping In The World Is Immaterial If You Don’t Survive Long Enough For Your Supplies & Planning To Matter”

by | Mar 16, 2015 | Headline News | 179 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The following article was originally published by Karl Denninger at The Market Ticker.


    (Pictured: Krakow, Poland Circa 1941. German SS supervises Jews being loaded into cattle boxcars. Few fought back and chose instead to be taken to their doom.)

    What Do You Prep For?
    By Karl Denninger

    One of the more-interesting discussions I’ve had over the years on a fairly consistent basis deals with the premise of prepping — usually initiated by someone who’s talking about a bug-out location, firearms, (freeze-dried or home-grown) food or (usually) all of the above.

    Let’s dissect this a bit, because the word prepping or prepper describe a lot of different things — and frankly, the more I hear about some of them the more I nod in approval at some, while smirking at others.  I think it’s time we have this discussion, particularly given the rather-precarious nature of our global economy (driven almost-entirely by government attempts to protect certain powerful people and institutions.)

    Underlying all of this is a problem that I and others have recognized for a long time: Humans do notoriously poorly at analyzing “tail risks” and acting appropriately in the face of them.  I’ll just put one example out there — the Jews during WWII.  Hitler’s soldiers frequently came into a town with a few dozen men armed with machine guns and rounded up thousands of people, marching them into waiting boxcars.

    The decision point to either riot or get into the boxcar happened right then and there, and was irrevocable.

    If you got into the boxcar, and essentially all of the folks in the town did, you were almost-certain to die.  Not instantly, but certainly.  Once you were in that boxcar there was nothing more to be done; you were going to be unloaded inside a fenced compound with crew-served weapons canvassing the perimeter, and were outright screwed.

    The problem was that if you decided to riot singularly you were going to die with certainty.  But if the village rioted collectively, a hundred, two hundred or five hundred of you would die but the rest would not because you would have overrun the relatively small contingent of soldiers and, the first time they had to reload their hand-held weapons they were going to get sacked.

    The mathematically correct decision is to bum rush the soldiers.  The reason is this: You had no downside in doing so, and while the potential for upside (living) wasn’t wonderful it beat the alternative.

    So let’s look at a few scenarios that you can prep for, and then look at the potential range of outcomes and whether you’re likely to influence them with your actions.

    But before we go into those scenarios I want to discuss something that’s even more-important: your personal sensitivity to specific disruptions.

    Let’s take a few relatively extreme examples.  If you are on dialysis, for example, and the center and/or hospitals in the area where you are happen to be unable to provide that service you’re incapacitated within a few days and dead within a few more.  This is also true if you are insulin-dependent and lose either your insulin supply orrefrigeration.  Then there are those with even shorter time-lines — those dependent on oxygen supplementation to name just one example.

    If you are in one of these categories then all the “ordinary” prepper thoughts are utterly worthless.  Some of these needs can be hedged against, but not all.  Medical technology dependency is one of the worst because there is really no hedge available to people of ordinary means that is effective.  As such if you, or someone you love, is in such a situation you need to give serious thought as to whether you can do something about that and, if you can, do it.  If you can’t, either due to bad luck or previous choices that you cannot reverse the effect of then in my opinion the rest of this discussion is not only pointless but you ought to expend your resources elsewhere and derive pleasure to the extent you’re able from the resource you would otherwise divert to such an attempt.  The one place you do want to spend resource preparing is on a reliable and executable plan to get the hell out of dodge at the first sign of trouble to somewhere that has the resources available for you to continue onward.  Figure that transportation requirement out, make damn sure it is always available, have three destinations with all reachable within no more than one half of the amount of time you have until you’re seriously impaired and maintain that as your primary — if not only — “preparedness” strategy.  This will cover local and (minor) regional problems; for anything more-severe, which I’ll get into in a later article, you must accept that there’s nothing productive you can do to alter the outcome.

    Second, but not far down the list, is those of you who are allegedly preppers and have significant but able to be mitigated physical or emotional issues.  Deal with them now, and first, before worrying about the rest.  These sorts of issues take months — and sometimes years — to handle.  The most-important assets you have in any bad situation are your mind and bodily stamina.  If you are mentally unstable in any material way or physically challenged in a way you can address (e.g. you’re fat and thus unable to undertake a hike of 10 or 20 miles with a heavy pack — or run a few miles — should the need arise) then fix that right now.  Again, all the prepping in the world is immaterial if you don’t survive long enough for your supplies and planning to matter.

    Next up will be common scenarios……. stay tuned!

    Karl Denninger is the author of Leverage: How Cheap Money Will Destroy the World in which he discusses the ill-use of leverage and how it is destroying the global economy, as well as where all of this will lead. The result is ugly: the value of everything—including gold—falls, and even personal safety is at risk in a world where there is limited money even for essentials like food and fuel.


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      1. what’s funny about it, is that the so-called preppers think that when shtf it’ll be just like going camping.

        you know who you twats are. lol.

        • Any suggestions by preppers here for how to handle a pinched nerve in the upper back between the neck and left shoulder (and it’s closer to the neck)? It’s a nagging pain. And I’m thinking of buying one of those things that elongate your neck a little bit. Anyone ever try one of those things?

          Thanks in advance.

          • Free Slave,

            A friend of mine has / had the same thing. He used a contraption that he hung upside down in. Hope that helps.


            • I have always been in my bug-out location.
              I don’t understand why people will play the
              “make money in the city and move to the country
              later” game. Just as well, I suppose.

            • FreeSlave, I heard that Saddam Hussien tried one of those things. It must have worked, because he never complained about any pain afterward. Trekker Out. Just Couldn’t Help Myself!

          • Try ice packs. 15 min on and 15 min off.

          • Inversion Table – will help with spinal pain. It will not cure pain for a pinched nerve. Sounds like your pinched nerve location needs a good massage or surgery if this nerve pain has been caused by trauma.

          • Krakow, Poland Circa 1941 is not correct.
            Krakow, Germany Cira 1941
            after WWII. the russian take Krakow and give it to Poland.

            • Yes, the Russians gave it BACK to Poland after the German’s took it for themselves for a central government center at the beginning of WWII through their invasion of Poland.

              Check it out in your history books.


              Son of Liberty

            • Only by invasion and occupation was it German. They may have controlled the land, but it was still Poland.

          • I use to get that all the time in the restaurant biz from tossing saute pans, try rolling a tennis ball on the nerve to work it out.

            • Thanks everyone. I’m gonna order this device called the ChiSoft Best Neck Traction Device. Save myself some physical therapy money.

              I’ll be severely hampered if/when a SHTF event happens, and my neck pain is jacking me up.

              This article is also a prompt to lose weight and build endurance and stamina.

              • Whatever ya do , get well.
                We need ya .

                • Thanks much hammerhead!

              • FS,

                How long has it been going on? What aggravates the pain? When is it worse? Do any positions relieve the pain? Have you had a workup? Do you have an old injury? Does the pain radiate? Some worthwhile questions to answer.

              • I just borrowed a traction device. Used it several times. It has not helped as much as it did the original owner. I am going to use again tonight. I was told to keep for a few weeks. My physical therapist advised not to over pressure the neck. I take it to 30 lbs, but he said that was too much.

                Good Luck.

              • Thank you, I looked it up and am going to buy one. I’ve been dreaming of something like this for years and didn’t know they made these. Ever since I saw Barney Fife hanging in a neck stretching device in a closet so he could grow an inch taller (lol) I’ve been wanting one.

                • Seriously – I’ve had neck pain due to severe TMJ for about 30 years. I just ordered one!

          • Try a TENS unit, they can sometimes work wonders and don’t cost very much anymore.

            Sometimes just killing the pain cures the problem since you don’t keep trying to avoid some positions that are painful and end up keeping it irritated by doing so.

          • I have the same thing, but on my right side. I bought an inversion table from Costco a couple years ago. Other stores carry them as well. I haven’t had to go to the chiro since. It takes a week to get used to hanging upside down for any length of time, but it helped me a lot. Good luck.

          • FreeSlave.

            Most likely a muscle spasm. Hot packs and massage the area. Stretching might help but depends how bad you hurt to do it. Had that before and it hurts bad.

            If you had high impact or load injury it may be pinched nerve but that will be closer to the spine/neck area. Cold packs to reduce swelling and pain in that case.

          • To Free Slave
            The wife is a retired nurse and sees good results from physical therapy. Your cervical area is probably compressed and the easiest way to relieve that is to suspend yourself Easier to hang in a pool w/ 5 or 10 pound weights on each foot and you just hang for about 5 minutes. Use one of those long styrofoam noodles or a pfd to float while you hang. Do that a few times a week and you should get relief very soon. Its a common physical therapy along with some water exercises to tone some of the muscle areas.
            Hanging upside down aint as safe, plus you need a contraption of some kind. If you have any blood pressure problems dont hang upside down.

            • Thanks Calgagus. It first occured about 2-3 years ago. Was walking around like I had a stroke on my left side. Went to a chiropractor. No help. Went to a doctor. No help. The doctor gave me a referral to a physical therapist. Major help!!!

              She knew exactly what I was going through. Did some exercises. No pool though. And she had me lay down on this thing that was like a rack, but it stretches your neck so that it pulls the neck or spine bones apart like a fraction of a millimeter.

              All that stuff helped over a period of weeks. Was back to normal.

              Now the pain is back. So I’m thinking of buying and using that home neck traction device. It’ll help if I ever get a pinched nerve during all the chaos and commotion of trying to make it through the mass die-off in the first 90 days of a tier one SHTF event.

              • Free Slave,
                Start to pay close attention to how you hold your head and how you sit, read, work on the computer. Your body position may cause the flair up and if the spine aint in the right position, relearn how to hold your head and neck and spine.

                If you buy the neck contraption, see if you can get as much as a 4 inch stretch to clear. Then you can use it as a device against the enemy when the shtf. Medieval warfare worked.
                Anyways heres to hearing that your pain is soon gone.

          • FreeSlave: Look up “Ohm tuning fork” on Amazon by
            Omnivos Therapeutics – you will need TWO – @ $39.95
            each (the one in the purple bag). We use them and no more pain in this house hold. My 82 year old mother has
            osteo arthritis, but now the pain is 100% gone, and
            she stopped all pain meds. You can get info online
            on how to use them. Good luck!

            • This article reminds me of glad I am, that I ditched my high blood pressure meds! It took about a month to wean off of them, but it’s worth it just to get a full night’s sleep again.

          • Free Slave- Seriously, try a decent reputable chiropractor in your area

          • Do yoga It will increase your strength and flexibility and I’ll bet after several weeks, that pinched nerve will be gone.

          • Just had back surgery. Mine was lower back. I guess I was too hard on it in the past. Being in my early 30s it kinda pisses me off to have restrictions now. I’m used to climbing a ladder with 50- 100lbs no problem, digging a dry well, swapping engines and shit like that by myself. It is nice to not have 24/7 pain down my back, leg and foot though. I tried to ride it out for a year but it never got better. The greatest wealth is health. I figure if I focus on my abs when I can work out again they can do the lifting and protect the back.

          • What Big B is referring to is an “Inversion Table”, you strap your ankles in and you tilt back. It brings oxygen to your brain and helps with decompression of your spine and other muscles by slowly relaxing them and stretching them. You can start off with a slight tilt and over time you can work your way up to being fully upside down.

            I have never tried it, but I know someone with sciatica and they said its has taken pressure and pain away.

            Good luck and I hope you have a fast recovery 🙂

          • If you haven’t been to a really good chiropractor (and I do mean a good one, a lot suck) I would try that first. Second I would try a tens unit, if that really good chiropractor didn’t use one too. Third I would try Yoga and other exercises targeting the general area.

            Best of Luck.

          • A nagging pain? What did you marry it?

            • She is even tempered, mean all the time.

              • 🙂

          • I use to get those from time to time based upon the way my head and shoulder were aligned while I slept. Take Ibuprofen for the pain, they will increase your telemeres.

            Try adjusting your pillow or using a larger one and see if that helps. That COULD be the way you are pinching the nerve. A chronic condition would have another source.

            Good luck. 🙂

          • I clear top-of-spine blockages by coughing and sneezing.

            Seriously! Sit on an office type chair, lean forward at the waist and bend your head forwards, now cough. See if anything moves. Sneezing in this position is obviously a tad more dangerous perhaps, so go careful, but a bent over sneeze (accidentally found the first time I used it) click-clacks my spine nicely and usually successfully frees up my trapped nerve.

            I am not a doctor, so don’t blame me if you paralyse yourself trying this!


          • I had that problem and many more for years from a car wreck that seemed very minor at first but soon gave me fits. The worst problem of many was the shoulder would hurt and cause the muscles in my neck to tense and pull the top two vertabrae out of position and I would have migraines that would make me sick. I was at a church conference in Branson Mo. and ran up on a guy selling medical appliance orthotics and two friends and I each bought a pair and we havent had any trouble since. Before that I was dependent on chiropractor adjustments several times a week to help manage the pain but after I got the orthotics all my problems dissappeared. A good pair of orthotics corrects the alignment of your body starting with your feet first, just like leveling a house.

          • See a good chiropractor…I do, and it really does work. After five years of visits mostly biweekly ones for maintenance, I have noticed I am healthier and more mobile with less aches and pains (my neck adjustments are the “b*omb” after they are done)…

          • FS, I have one of those. I get headaches and it sometimes makes my hands go numb, and it just hurts like hell. If you’re like me, it is noticeably worse when you get out of bed in the morning.

            I got one of those soft, cheap neck braces that velcro around your neck. I wear it to bed and around the house for a couple of days. It makes mine much better. You might try it and see what happens.

          • Check into a TENS unit at walmart for about $30.00. It basically sends electrical pulses to your muscle and convinces it to relax. I pinched my sciatic while working on the woodpile, and I used the TENS (That I got to help my gf with her stress migraines) on my back, after about a day of moving it around, I was up and around in about a day and a half later. Usually that would put me down for at LEAST a week, if not more. For 30 bucks, I would highly recommend it.

          • Prednisone is the answer. Will take a day or so to get relief… Don’t bother asking how I know… crying out loud….

          • You want an inversion table. My father has the same issues and uses an inversion table. It works wonders for him and his neck-back pinched nerves and disc pain.

          • I have that same issue, as did a friend of mine. My friend went through surgery and came out being able to do even less and still in pain…so no surgery for me. I used both physical therapist who spent several weeks lining things up and having me do some minor neck exercises to keep the discs from pressing each other and a chiropractor who lined me up. The Chiro response was faster with more immediate relief. Keeping muscles tight without over exerting by doing stupid stuff helps considerably. But sometimes you just take a fall or sleep wrong and get out of whack. I still use the chiropractor when needed because it is instant relief. Won’t have this option if it is not there, but I do know a good muscle relaxer and following the exercises to get it back to normal helps when things get bad if the chiro is not available.

          • Acupuncture…Find a good one, it will take 5 or 6 sessions but will work. My wife had bad sciatica pain AFTER seeing a chiropractor. After much encouragement she found a good acupuncturist; felt no improvement for the first 4 treatments, after the 5th she felt better and after the 6th has had no pain for 4 years. Total cost was $125/visit.

        • CTwek..I agree with you.i spoke about this last week.We have.all been conditioned to have a B.O.B. ,which is fine. I have a get home bag in my vehicle. All the shows romanticising leaving the big city and escaping for the hills is a fairy tale at best for most folks. Here in FEMA Region 3,all you need is a half inch of snow and a good car wreck and every route out the area is jammed. Most likely, for my family at least we would have to hang tight. When you leave your home where all your ” stuff” is,you are now a refugee.

        • CT, you mean the “Doomsday Preppers”, right? Those WANNABES?

        • Not my line; but I can say/ask; do you know what’s caused it? If you are by chance Female, I have watched gals cause themselves terrible pain with the junk they carry in shoulder bags. At the start of the day shoulder is up 2 inches to keep bag from falling off; end of day shoulder is 2 low do to the weight. Then they cannot figure out why their lower back, shoulder, and neck hurt all the time. Also look at how you sleep.

        • i always say people think its going to be like little house on the pararie ,but in fact it will be more like nightmare on elm street

          • the way it’s going, it’ll be more like the walking dead since preppers are prepping as if shtf will be something like that…people who have no real mind of their own love cliches and trends…

            it’s mindblowing to think that a lot of people out there actually believe the possibility of zombies being a real thing one day… or wish something like that would happen so they can go around swinging some swords n shit…lol smh.

        • Chicken Twirk, best comment I’ve read on this site in a long time.

          f ’em

          • they’ll pretty much just f’ themselves..

            it’s inevitable.

        • same people who think they will “hunt and fish and live off the land”, yet have never killed anything larger than a sick pack. Or worse, the seasoned hunter who thinks game will be plentiful…

      2. I know a few folks with serious health issues,
        Being prepared for serious upheaval isnt even one of the things on their radar,,
        Dependent on meds or treatments etc,,,,
        Personally i figure if its something so extreme that we are not going to have some sort of normalcy for more than 6 months or a year or more if ever im going to hit the boonies, enjoy my last days like a hunting/fishing vacation and die out there where nobody will find me….
        Just dont care enough to want to stick around

        • We have to care so that others coming after us will get a chance to care too.

          • Oh?
            Are they going to feed me? Make sure the government doesnt fuck with me? Repeal all the bullshit regulations and trade agreements that have doomed our country?
            Not in my lifetime,,, so WHY should I care?
            A life as a slave to the government doesnt sound like much of a life to me,
            Where we are at right now
            Is that the country is in up to its balls with debt and no hope of that going away, more and more regulation and in my case it is killing my livlihood, more and more foreigners just coming in here willy nilly and sucking up any sort of future for our kids,
            So,,, WHY I AsK should I carE?
            I would rather be dead than be held responsible for this crap that i had no hand in creating,
            All that stuff we were taught as kids about how our system and country work, it was bullshit, so screw em, they created it and stupid people like many of my family have just gone along paying and paying and paying and never once standing up and saing NO!
            So screw it, I JUST DONT CARE.

            • Kula, I’m the same way. Everything we were taught as kids was propaganda. I’m sick to death of my tax money going to these foreigners and other groups who don’t care about anything except getting that check and EBT card reloaded every month. Once I’ve bugged out of Memphis and made it to the BOL in GA, I’m bugging in. No running away from the BOL. If need be, I’ll die standing up fighting for my home and family. I don’t give a shit either. Bring on the ‘reset’.

              • Y’all hear my Cuz! Ain’t nobody gonna come around our compound messin with us once Cuz gets moved over here. Sure makes me proud and happy to know he’ll be on our side. Thats right, he’ll die standing up, but we’ll lay him down and give him a proper burial. When he gets here we may make a big ole sign that says “CUZ IS HERE” with people knowing that, we may not even have to fight. Come on home Cuz.

                • Reminds me of that Australian folk tale – for those who wonder:

                  “Tan me hide when I’m dead, Fred, tan me hide when I’m dead.
                  Well we tanned his hide when he died, Clyde,
                  That’s it, hanging on the shed.

                  Tie me kangaroo down, sport, tie me kangaroo down.”

                  There are some good people in this country and sometimes you find ’em on this site.

            • Well one reason to care is that I would like people like you Kulafarmer and braveheart to be around for when the dust settles and we start to put the pieces back together.

              I sometimes get depressed too about how crappy modern society has become but I try to picture 3 years and 1 second after. So we still teach the kids latin, music (piano, violin, guitar), ballet, and how to paint and draw. I still continue to expand my library with practical books as well as classics of western literature.

              The author has a great point about initial survival, but I would encourage y’all to look farther down the road too. Even the Roman empire didn’t collapse equally and at the same rate in all parts. Some forward thinkers managed to preserve their way of life and ultimately became the foundation for the great advances in western civilization to come.

              • Rebel, may I live long enough to see the elite pay for what they have done. The polar vortex of revenge keeps me going. Icy and relentless, like the snows of Boston. Yes we will need many, like those who visit here, who remember. We must remember the cause was that greed and corruption were rewarded and until they are not, history will repeat.

            • That attitude is exactly why we are in the state we’re in. Enjoy your selfish demise, me I’ll worry about the next generation.

        • I kinda agree Kulafarmer. Either I get to my BOL or take my travel trailer into the mountains as far as I can get and do what I can for as long as I can. My age and health has to be taken into account. Don’t want to be dependent on the rest of my family and friends. Give them a better chance.


          • I would rather die a slow death with nothing but the sound of the ocean and the wind than stay put and die a slow death living in paranoia and having to fight just to not get overrun,,we live on an island, things will run out quickly, others will try to just take from those who were prudent, it wont be pretty, definitely nothing to want to deal with, beyond the un prepared there is the government, i dont plan on playing with any of them,,, scorched earth,

          • BigB, I’m the same way. I’ll get to the BOL in GA and do my part with my family. I’m still in good physical health so there’s quite a bit I can do. Never been dependent on anyone else in my whole life and not starting now. If the NWO bastards come after me in those mountains, they’ll never see their homes again. the family is surrounded by like-minded people who will confront the NWO scum. I’ll stand my ground at the BOL. I WON”T be running away from there!

            • Hey Braveheart. If you’re in the Cohutta Wilderness area or Dalonegah area, just remember that the Army uses that area for part of the Rangers Mountain Warfare training. Give them a chance before you fire on them if shit has gone bad. They may be trying to link up with civilians such as yourself to work with you not against you. Most of our specialized troops are on your side. I know I’m going to get shit kicked on this one, but we take our oath seriously. I personally think most of our troops will be on the people’s side. Take it for what it’s worth buddy.
              Have a good one.

              Keep your head on a swivel people.

              • Socmarine87, a few of my relatives are veterans themselves and have had some contact with those Rangers in the past. I know most of OUR troops will be on our side. My biggest concern will be the ‘alphabet soup’ agencies, Obama’s ‘private army’, and foreign troops. those scum will end up ‘disappearing’ in the mountains. they won’t stand a chance. You have a good one also.

              • socmarine87, well them their Ranger boys sure better let us know who they are in a hurry, or CUZ may take out the whole dang bunch before they get a chance to surrender.

                • Whatever……you’re the reason I rarely comment. I wasn’t asking for their sake, but for both. I put my money on those who have 6 to 10 combat deployments. Have crew served weapons,
                  thermal, PVS14s, artillery and air support.
                  I’m not saying your group isn’t prepared and trained nor I’m I trying to get in a pissing contest with you. Instead of beating your chest and pissing on all of the trees. You may want to come up with a contengency plan on how you will make peaceful contact with them as well.
                  Having us working toghether would be much more beneficial than killing each other.
                  I’ve been fighting almost my whole life; I don’t mind fighting the rest of it, but I would rather my children not have to.
                  Don’t take this as a challenge take it more as something to consider.
                  You have good one.

                  Keep your head on a swivel people.

                  • Socmarine87, your points are very well taken by me. As long as my family trusts them, I will give them a chance to prove themselves to me. And yes, I do prefer to work with them instead of us shooting one another, but they have to prove to me that they are on the RIGHT side, the side of we the people. I am considering everything you’re saying. The ones I am most concerned about as I said earlier are the alphabet soup agencies, Obama’s private army, and foreign troops. That’s who I really expect to confront me. Take care.

                    • We’re solid brother. I have been reading your comments and some of the other peoples comments for some time now. Most of you are good to go. I have spent considerable time in the North GA Mnts. What a great place to be and a better place if things really hit rock bottom.
                      My son lives in Chatsworth Ga. If I have time to go see him soon we may have to set up a meeting place. If this site creates personal messaging it may work. I go to Dahlonegah every now and then as well. It would be nice to get some of the others toghether as well. To bad we can’t get Kulafarmer over here. I don’t even know him and worry about him. (I know Kulafarmer you don’t need anyone worring about you.) Meeting is just a suggestion. If it never happens… It never happens. I’m in Louisville, Ky and have a small defensive\tactical firearms training center. If you all are in the area let me know.
                      Have a good one

                      Keep your head on a swivel people.

                  • while we’re talking bout military, I just have to say. I was watching a program called “eyewitness war” and I do appreciate the sacrifice all those who serve, have made. Although misguided, lied to, and not worth it. But anyways, I watched them dump Lord knows how many millions of munitions just for a few guys with aks or rpks in a cave. 2 choppers, multiple planes, 5 500lb jdams, 3or 4 Humvees. And sure they finally got em, but how many millions were spent to kill 4 or 5 camel bangers in a cave. Granted Afghanistan would not be a fighting friendly terrain for the visitor. But come on. Look how much we spent on a few guys. We cant win such a war of attrition like that, which is exactly why we lost and left and its an even bigger shit hole now. just my opinion

                    • Many times when me and four other Marines had to call in for support and we would be in awe with what five men had at their disposal. Whether it be morters and artillery or Cobras or Apaches, F-18s and A10s, even freaking Battleships. Yes billions at our disposal. I can’t say I ever worried myself with the expenditure of tax payer dollars only that I was thankful that our support was willing to do whatever it took to keep five of theirs alive even if only to kill two. Was it overkill? Oh yeah. Was it a waste….I can see where you would think so and I don’t think of you badly because of it. If it was one of your loved ones calling for help I believe you would use any means, expend everything of value even give your own life to save them. Ahhh hell maybe I’m just hoping.

                      You take care.

                    • I got signed out and didn’t realize it. I the anonymous that replied back to you.

                      Take care.

                  • Semper Fi, Marine. There are millions of civilians, Marines and others who will join you in a minute.

                    Many of us are old, but we can still field strip our M1 Garand and make it talk. “My M1 talks for me.”

                    Semper Fi

                    • I hear you Devil Dog. Mean and hard and battle scared.
                      Have a good one.

                      Keep your head on a swivel people.

                  • @ socmarine87

                    I don’t have your been there’s. My question for the guys who were the sharp end of the government’s spear is:

                    Let’s suppose martial law has been declared. The Constitution is officially the dead letter it has always been since at least 1865. Proper authority has ordered the sharp end of the spear to confiscate our firearms.

                    What will the people on active duty THEN do? Suppose ten percent say, NO. Or would it be closer to 85%. Some on active duty go, “YESSIR.” Do you go along or do you fight, right then?

                    Bracken on Western Rifle Shooters did a post about the possible military role when urban food riots are widespread. Saying veterans and deer hunters would be the bulk of resistance to the Golden Horde.

                    Suppose you are ordered to confiscate those nasty things before then. What do you think is likely to happen, and why?

                    • I am around guys from JSOC, SF, 82nd and 101st and of course Marines. Those are all I can speak for. It’s is something that is talked about through out. It’s a collective response that we will follow our oath. It’s an illusion to the officers that we as enlisted,NCOs and Staff NCOs follow there orders. It’s a decision. We write the Op orders/patrol orders etc. I can’t speak for the National Gaurd, but they’ll figure it out and do what’s right.

                • NGIC, STFU, idiot!

        • Good article ,
          I,m stayin home , simple plan.
          Got nowhere to go .
          I already live in the boonies , so i will just sit on my ass and wait .
          I get the feeling i wont be alone too long……

          • Don’t worry about it too much, hammerhead.
            The people that come in to elbow you over
            won’t know anything that took the people of
            Mesick a lifetime of hardship to learn. You
            will be King among the ignorant.

            • OutWest, NOBODY will even get close enough to touch me, let alone elbow me out of the way.

            • King of the ignorant ?
              Kinda snide comment , doncha think ?
              Marion aint much of a paradise these days either.
              BTW , I have fished Mesick dam , had a good catch : )

              • Not snide at all hammer.
                The uninformed will seek the wisdom of the informed.
                What will be your price for helping these wayward
                What will these wayfarers pay for their survival?
                You are a businessman, aren’t you? Ka-ching.

                • My plan would be to send em all packin.
                  Dont want a bunch of needy people hangin around.

        • typical….way off topic…about not going quietly…..ends up about someone’s pain in the ass

      3. Just wanted to add to another issue that people don’t talk about and that is addiction. Any addiction is going to hamper any chances you have.

        • That’s a fact .I’m addicted to being left the hell alone and its hampering the hell out of my chances right now

      4. A thought provoking article. Add people who have had an organ transplant and need anti-rejection pills to the list of non-survivors. Most people over 60 or 70 years old won’t last long. Anyone living near a place like Ferguson will need to become a Barbarian to survive for even a week. If there is a collapse, probably 90% of the population would be gone in a year. If you actually have a good place to hide out, the faster the surplus population declines, the better off you are. Not a pleasant thought, but I suspect that the elites are counting on rapid depopulation to save their butts.

      5. If I had a serious health condition like those described in the article, I think I would do my best for as long as I could, but be sure that my family knew what/where the preps are so that if I couldn’t survive, at least they would have a chance.

        I think I would be one of the first to bum-rush the police/armed force and if I die, I die; I’m gonna die anyway if I can’t get to the treatments I would need if I had a serious illness. At least I might be able to give those behind me a chance to escape or overtake the ones that killed me. Why be selfish if there’s no chance of me getting my dialysis/insulin/oxygen….whatever. Let the stronger ones survive, but go down fighting!

        • That’s the spirit. While there are so many things that are beyond our control we can always choose how we respond to those things. I’ve always admired those whose only choice was reduced to dying without screaming and took it. Granted it would be better to have more choices, but you always have at least some choice.

        • That’s me, too. Better to die doing something than to waste away having done nothing.

        • KY Mom, welcome back. How have you been? You’ve been sorely missed here.

          • Hi Braveheart!

            Thank you for your greeting and kind welcome!

            I took a break and have been busy. Hope this finds all well with you.

            • i took a break too for a few months, and imagine my surprise that i came back to reading a post about seeds from you again…lol.

              i await your next seed post or your top 10 list of useless junk to pack(just dont forget actual useful stuff this time like a medkit and soap…those are more important than buttons and yarn imo lol)

          • Goodness gracious KY Mom, like Bh says good to see your posts again. Plus I was out drowning worms on a hook this past Sunday and was thinking of testing the germination rate out on last years “Doc Martin” lima bean seeds I saved and dried for this year. Your link is right on time. Thanks.

        • Wow! Thanks for sharing. I do get a little impatient waiting for the seedlings. Good method!

        • Welcome back, great info as always. I would add that I have used this method many times and it’s really good, especially if you keep the seedlings just a little bit warm. While they make seedling mats that plug in and can heat several plates or containers without overheating them, it’s often just as easy, and free, to put them on top of the refrigerator or other place that will keep them warm. Don’t overheat them, but a little bit of heat really speeds up this process. Don’t let the paper towel dry out either as this happens faster when warm.

        • hahahahahahahahahaha

          another seed post, not surprised.

          what is this #50 now KY Nom Nom?

          redundancy is still redundant.

          • Chicken $hit

            You really are useless.

            You add NOTHING USEFUL to the conversation.

            • I just sent your link to someone I know that buys all of her seedlings from the grocery store. I don’t think she knows how to do it, so now thanks to your link, she will! Thanks and don’t mind the trolls.

            • that reply was just as useless.

              cmon, NomNom…you know your tired redundancy is the limit of your very basic thinking. tell us something useful for a change…or maybe you have a learning disability that prevents you from gaining new knowledge. it’s no surprise that you only have the same information on this site when it comes to prepping info that requires only common-sense and nothing else to contribute on other discussions. again…you’re basic.

              i know your type…and aside from your house-wife knowledge, i bet you’re a real nag too.

      6. Great article! I think Apocalypse will be here by the end of the year.

      7. Frankly I found this article insulting. Who does this bozo think that he is, God? “You’re going to die because you’re not as cool as me”.

        Off topic, Russia is increasing their war preps, the Washington Free Beacon is reporting that Japan is rapidly making plan to go to war with China, and a retired U.S. general over the weekend said, “We need to start killing Russians in the Ukraine”.

        I guess that I’m too old/fat/sick to prep, so I’ll just lay down and die when WW 3 comes…..NOT!

        Watch out fur them hogs!

        • Think you read it wrong…

      8. Really sad about the Jews. The problem is, most people are NICE. If they were rebels, or if they didn’t automatically trust the system (or if they were like us– we don’t trust the system one bit!) then they might could have survived.

        Reminds me of what they tell females– never get in a car with a bad guy! Once you are in his car, most likely you will get raped (and killed!) If you fight back– if you refuse to get in that mother f– car, if you scream bloody murder, hanging on to a lamp post or whatever, then you have a chance. Otherwise, forget it. You’re dead meat!

        • “The problem is, most people are NICE.” Word.

          The reason why people get screwed, historically, is because they trust the system and are too nice. To be frank, I’m sick and tired of all the nice and kindhearted people, even if they mean well. When the shit hits the fan it’s going to be some of the most stubborn, mean, distrustful, and murderous SOB(s) who end up surviving the economic collapse. It’s gonna be down to the level of “you so much as step on my property, you’ll be full of fucking holes” and NO talk. I truly believe we all need to prep psychologically for what’s about to come, because if you want to live, don’t expect it to be pretty.

        • Anonymous, I agree. Never ever follow what any govt. official says, period. Your life will one day depend on that advice.

      9. “you will find your sanctuary in the earth.”

        learn to build a raised floor cold zone trap dugout with low tunnel entrance to trap the cold from the living area.

        it’s very similar to building a true artic igloo.

        with just a good spade shovel you can build this livable sanctuary anywhere and be comfortable.

        • When The Music Stops: How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence

          the next time we are visited by widespread, large-scale urban riots, a dangerous new escalation may be triggered by a fresh vulnerability: It’s estimated that the average American home has less than two weeks of food on hand. In poor minority areas, it may be much less. What if a cascading economic crisis, even a temporary one, leads to millions of EBT (electronic benefit transfer) cards flashing nothing but ERROR? This could also be the result of deliberate sabotage by hackers, or other technical system failures. Alternatively, the government might pump endless digits into the cards in a hopeless attempt to outpace future hyperinflation. The government can order the supermarkets to honor the cards, and it can even set price controls, but history’s verdict is clear: If suppliers are paid only with worthless scrip or blinking digits, the food will stop.


          • @ digs

            Same article, by Bracken, posted September 3, 2012, about suburban vigilantes using pickup truck sniper wagons to defend against Minority Urban Youth leaving the city in search of food. Distinction between veterans and deer hunters using aimed fire against marauders shooting wildly. Also 3-D threat matrix: poor v rich, urban v rural, darker complected v lighter.


        • called them barabaras here . Nate dwellings before the white man showed up . You can still find them now and then on emoe beaches around the Island

          • thats supposed to say remote beaches . my keyboard sucks

      10. Hang in there Kulafarmer. I have read about your shooting abilities. Don’t give up. I believe in all of you good folks. Give em HedoubleLL Make them like the taste of lead If they mess with you. The bigest addiction I have is chocolate. I had better stock up while I can.

      11. Remember Alferd Packer.

        The only survivor of his own SHTF situation.

      12. At my age(in my 60’s) I still can hike 10 miles with a heavy pack and rifle, ammo and water and a couple of mre’s. I’ll have no problem there. My worry is that F.S.A. trying to take what I have, if I have to take that hike. I’m not sure how long I can run and gun, probably long enough to get into trouble.
        The reason I’m a prepper is for my family and friend to have a chance to survive after TSHTF. If my sons and grandkids have it a little better than most after TSHTF I’ll be happy and know that I have done my part to help them through it.
        It will take team work with your group that you plan to be with.
        I’m not bugging out My group is coming to me. I live in the country with a river not a 1/4 mile away a small town of 16,000 about 5 miles away that have several prepper groups in it.
        I have several acres of land with two large gardens, fruit trees, nut trees, chickens and a clear field of fire. I’m working on solar lighting now for the house and two out buildings. The heating in the winter has been taken care of and so has sanitation, we will have to carry water in the winter. That’s just on my property. That’s on the south end of the enclave. the north end has two houses and two out buildings One per house that is ready to go except for sanitation and the are going to start on that as soon as the can start digging. In the middle there are 2 houses with heat but not much else they are working on all the other preps, like food, water and fire power, they are just getting started.
        We are planning on sticking it out for a while, yes we do have another BOL if needed. Not as nice as what we have here but livable.
        Everyone will have a special job to do when they are not on guard duty or patrol.
        As far as the very old and the sick all we can do is try to keep them comfortable and with us as long as we can. The rest is up to the Good Lord. My parents are the very old and sick.
        Pray for the best and prep for the worst.
        Good luck my brothers and sisters. May God be with you. If you don’t believe, may the force be with you.
        S.T.S.F.P. N.R. N.S. N.Reb

        • Northern Reb.

          Be thankful for what you have. Many have much less. Know your liabilities and your capabilities. That will place you light years above others. ;0) My wife’s and my parents have passed on. Your a Good Man, Northern Reb.

        • Nice, I love being reminded that 40 is still pretty young.

          • Rebel in Idaho.

            Wish I was forty again and know what I know now.
            My problem is that I am over 60 but want to be 20. My other friends want to sit around the camp fire and talk about their meds and doctors visits, Screw that! Bring on the younger people that want to have fun. Will be dead soon enough so why be reminded of it.
            Now don’t you know I have to pay for my sins of smoking and drinking too much. Getting stuck in the mud on cold nights and staying up all night. Muscle aches.
            But I’m Not DEAD YET!

        • NR. Try evading as much as you can. Don’t let your firearm get you in a predicament it can’t get you out of.

      13. Damn…. I don’t what to do or where to start. I have food and ammo, but with no plan in place. Just started prepping and this article was a bit too much for me

        • Take it easy and THINK. No hurry, you have already done more than 90%. Decide how long you can or want to stay where you are. Decide where you can go, if anywhere, It doesn’t take a lot to get a long way. $10 in vitamins and a bag of rice is a lot more than most have. You can get 5 gal food grade plastic buckets from lots of places for 50C each. 5 or 6 of them full of rice or water some lime and some kitty litter. Will keep you a month, under $100. Lots of data out there, lots of people here know their stuff, just pay attention you can be fine.

        • So if you just recently took the red pill: congratulations. I agree with paranoid, as do most here, about the thinking and planning. Here’s a few suggestions to read ASAP. I have no financial gain from any of these and I’m not saying these are the best ever in all cases but are certainly a great place to start.

          1) LDS Preparedness manual (if I could pick only one …)
          2) Survival Mom by Lisa Bedford
          3) Rawles Gets You Ready by James Wesley Rawles

          Making it through the initial diaster:
          1) SAS Survival Handbook by John Wiseman

          1) Boston’s Gun Bible by Boston T Party

          1) When There is no Doctor by Gerard Doyle

          1) Mini Farming: Self sufficiency on 1/4 acre by Bret Markham
          2) The Backyard Homestead published by Madigan/Storey

          1) Barnyard in Your Backyard by Damerow/Storey publishing

          Food preservation and cooking:
          1) Ball’s Complete Book of Home Preserving
          2) The Prepper’s Cookbook by Tess Pennington (check out her website readynutrition.com too)

          These are by no means a complete list (I obviously didn’t mention the Bible), but a solid start. There are many more you will eventually get that are often more subject specific like “Storey’s guide to Chickens” or “Basic Soap Making” by Letcavage. And who would leave out “the Knowledge How to Rebuild Our World From Scratch” by Lewis Dartnell?

          The key here is to not panic. Yes there’s a really big problem coming and lots of potential natural disasters along the way, but stay calm and think first. If you start with a few overview resources, and perhaps a few topic overview books as well if funds allow, you can then rationally make the best use of your money and time to develop the best plan going forward for you based on your circumstances.

          Again, welcome, and feel free to ask questions at sites like this. You will find lots here who will answer your questions and help how they can.

          Best of luck.

      14. Karl D. greatly underestimates the capability of one old, pissed off, son of a bitch. Forget about young or old or fit or fat. Can you kill and how many, is what counts.

        Stand your ground where ever it may be.

        • Slingshot, I agree. I believe I can kill, and as damned many as it takes to survive. If Denninger has any sense he would also be prepping. But I’d bet a dollar to a doughnut that he’s not. If so, then he will be history in post-SHTF.

          • Braveheart.

            Stick that mini chain gun out the window and fire 6000 rounds a min. Who the hell is going to fuck with you then? You can shoot the whole neighborhood up a hundred times over in less than a minute.
            Wish I had one.

            • Get real, at 6,000 rds per minute in a few days I’d be short on ammo. You got any idea how much work reloading all that would be?

            • Come to WYO in June you can shoot one. Buy one if you like, they are available. Gatling type are not machine guns, not hard to get. just money.

          • @braveheart, kerl denninger is the SMARTEST patriot i’m aware of. i have read EVERY single word he has written for about 7 years now(we ALL should be reading every WORD he says), but like him, i see a bunch of do-nothing americans that won’t even surround a jail and drag the cop that shot the citizen, ON CAMERA(like albuquerque) , out into the street and beat him within an inch of his life, and then IMPRISON him for LIFE…no, they KEEP their job and are put on PAID vacation, while the guys that DID IT investigate the CRIME….every day it seems he writes about injustice in america, and he’s tiring of it, as am I….injustice in america is RAMPANT! the time for pitchforks and torches nears.

      15. I’ve been planning to survive for along time. My preps are in and my guns are ready to protect them.

        I’m a country boy and I know how to survive.

        I’ve got the mind set, and if you want to survive this thing coming you are going to have the mine set to know that you will KILL to protect you and yours. If you don’t have it you had better learn how to get it.

        Remember good people will become bad people when they see their kids or themselves starving, and if they haven’t prepared for this they will be twice as bad, because they know the dropped the ball and now they are trying to make up for that.

        I don’t want to have to take someone out but I will to protect Me and Mine.

        Off topic.
        The weather finally broke and things have dried up some here in North Central Illinois.

        Took the two Nagants that I have been working on for the last few months and scoped them in. My 91/30 Tula cut down to 19″ with a muzzle break on it with a long eye relief 2X7X32 scope on a an ATI stock and Timney trigger using 1980’s 150 Gr. FMJ ammo gave me a 3/4 group at 100 yards, and my Izzy with all the same things other that in a Arch Angel stock using the same ammo gave me a 1/2 group at 100 yards. I would have to say that the Tula was shooting when the wind had pick up quite a bit. I can’t wait to shoot some of my reloads in it just to see how go it will shoot and to see if and what reload I’m going to use. MAN THROUGHING BULLETS DOWN RANGE IS ALMOST AS GOOD AS SEX. ALMOST!

        • Sarge, I read you loud and clear. Once I get to GA, that is where I’ll stay; no going back to Memphis. My family and I will be standing our ground. I don’t really want to kill, either, but I will to protect me and mine. I think it’s a safe bet we’ll face a helluva lot of enemies once the balloon goes up. That’s what extreme ammo supplies are for. Still prepping and getting more; hell, all I can for as long as I can. On guns, I searched several places over the weekend for a picatinny rail for my new Mossberg, but can’t find one for the 930. I’ll check some places online.

          • Braveheart
            Try M1Surplus.com
            They have tons of items. A lot of hard to get items.
            I just looked and they have mag tube extensions, side saddle for extra shells, mounts to put lights or lasers on you gun. Good shopping.

            • A new definition of mixed emotions for you guys. On the horizon is a banker and a deer. You are hungry but have only one bullet left.

              • Shoot the deer, it’s easier to out run the banker…you can always get him with your hunting knife.

              • OR:
                shoot the deer, because the banker isn’t going anywhere, he’s obviously LOST.

      16. Amen slingshot!! The powers that B fear us, we have our father in heaven on our side. Anyone standing against us, has a big problem. They may kill us, they may eat us, but our souls still go to our creator. Those against us, don’t have this insurance plan

      17. I’ve about given upon further prepping after many years of trying.

        Ya see, I am accident prone. First my guns, then my precious…and now, after the water shortage post, I thought mebbee I’d hoard some water.

        Loaded the boat with water and set out. I forgot that water sinks boats and now I can’t find my water either.


        ———————NANTUCKET PREPPER——————-

        There once was a man from Nantucket
        Who saw doom and thought he could duck it.
        Beans, Bandaid and Gun
        He stored by the ton
        Then saw he’d still lose and said “Fuck it”.

        ********************Benjamin the Donkey******************

      18. Note to self. Rotate your magazines Okie, you lazy turd.

        • Okie,
          Dang it. Knew there was something that I had forgotten to do recently. Thanks…
          Be well.

      19. To bad the article didn’t mention that before Hitler rounded up the Jews and pols. he outlawed individual gun ownership Ya. he removed every ones right to protect themselves. Hmmm. don’t that sound familiar!!!

      20. Load your mags and make sure every single one is topped off. Store them that way. When the shit hits you’ll want to have every mag possible. I had a dream I was about to make contact and the mag was empty. That my friends is a really bad day.

        • Imagine grabbing your gun on your way out, and finding out later that you grabbed the wrong ammo for it…

      21. Never give up. While Karl is right about limitations you can still do something. That something my just be holding a position to let everyone else slip away from the SS or any other alphabet soup agency. The biggest threat is everyone who would give you up for some government cheese.

        It’s one thing to have physical limitations, it another thing to be dependent on the entitlement system. Don’t worry though the entitlement crowd will be the first to go.

      22. I’m chuckling because BBC interviewed a couple of little old ladies in Ukraine that have been surviving in a basement since the shooting started. They complained they were hungry, but both were still a bit portly! One was in her early 70’s the other in her late 60’s, they’ll need some help soon, but damn they could write some great survival articles.

        Many are expecting a Ukrane style breakdown, that kicked off and society crumbled in days or weeks depending on location. Ukraine is a militant revolution. What I expect to happen in the US will likely be economic, worse than the Great Depression, but not as fast as bannana republic collapses. The killer will be this will be deeper and longer than the Great Depression.

        The trigger point for people to react and use necessary force to protect themselves requires them be able to evaluate with little information their situation and understand a threat that may be hidden behind propaganda. The European Jews collected by Germany for the most part believed the cover story that they were being relocated, they never grasped the reality of death camps until the doors opened on the trains in the camps.

        • Exactly right. Here, we have FEMA (We’re from the govt, and we’re here to help) camps.

      23. For all you too old to travel remember the rule….
        Make sure that you take two or more with you when it’s time to die. This ensures an advantage for your loved ones. I do a lot of prepping but it’s mostly for the family. I’m in my late fifties, my strength is in my knowledge, but I can still fight. Three of my four sons are married and have families of their own. We will all gather here in the mountains, where I live. When it’s all said and done we are a large and capable group. With my sons strength and my knowledge, We survive!

      24. I’m buggin in but with several prepared neighbors we have a chance. We’re on a lake(water and fish) and all the new homes going in have solar. Got some distance to go but getting there.

      25. Good discussion , not sure how accurate the essay was, I have some Limitations, due to Health, may not last too long without my medications, not sure..I have been talking to my Brother who has been Prepping for a Few years Now, and we compare Notes everyday, I live in a City and he lives in a Small Town in the Northern part of the State, low population area…If I had to bug out I plan on a Back roads trip on a Motorcycle, as a Last resort, so I have directed some of my preps to his House. I cannot say how long I could Remain in the City if It Blew up Overnite..If I do decide to stay I can slug it Out…Hope for the Best that’s all we can do…

        Semper Fi

      26. I’m insulin dependent. I have a stash, refrigeration for it powered by solar, and I’m working to fix this diabetes problem. If I’m gonna die anyway I will do what is needed to ensure that my family will make it. I will become a tremendous deadly pain in the ass before I lay down on that pile of smoking brass.

        On a happy note was able to pick up $800 more in storable food today. Those of us with medical issues have planned for SHTF. No one lives forever, and as bad as it’s gonna be post SHTF, who really wants too?

        • I wanna live long enough to show them, they didn’t get me.

      27. Good points……BUT another situation. Wife disabled definitely not bugging out and have the usual preps. I am fat, out of shape, late sixties and use numerous pills each day. I have 4 months worth for us both and can double that by rationing if necessary. The reason I prep? Daughter son in law and 3 grandkids 15 to 21 years old that live 2 miles away. The grandkids say if something happens I’m going to Poppop’s house semi kidding. I take two to the grandkids every once in a while to the range so the know about weapons, they all cook and I speak a lot about security, what to do and how to do it in situations. They are the reasons I want to last long enough to not see them in food lines or in danger the best I can. I am going nowhere for their sake.

        • O’Malley, the same here about meds.
          I could only get 20 extra Levetiracetam for husband’s seizures. So when TSHTF, not if, I will try to wean him slowly from whatever supply he has when TSHTF.

          Can’t just stop–seizures every 3 hours. Don’t need to tell you how I learned that–VA was 8 days late on refill by mail. A**holes.

          • Getting off the high blood pressure meds was the best thing I’ve done in years. Maybe you could go through those meds again, and see if some of them could be replaced by something else that you can stockpile.

            I had enough hbp meds that I could wean myself off of them without inducing a stroke. That was all the stockpile I needed for those. Now I have plenty left over to pass on to someone who might need them when SHTF. That’s the only reason I’m not just dumping them. Someone else might need them.

      28. Nothing new in this article. Everyone knows that 90% will die. It will be a no holds barred Root Hawg or die . Survival of the fittest. If you couldn’t survive in a indian village circa early 1800. You wont survive SHTF

      29. ht tp://www.palmspringsphotoblog.com/images/heavy-freeway-traffic.jpg

        what was said about bugging out????

      30. The guy writing this is kind of insulting. Off topic I read the best books I have ever seen on how the most likely SHTF scenario will strike US. They are by a guy named Mathew Bracken, first called Enemies Foriegn and Domestic.Their are 3 of them and they chronicle a very realistic and rational look at how the U.S. will collapse, slowly in stages. I personally fear our government the most and see it as our most deadly adversary if things hit the skids. I know many feel our Federal Government is too incompetent to be a real threat in a SHTF scenario, but I disagree. If our government ever reaches a marshal law scenario and is relieved of the constraints of the Constitution I fear people will quickly come to realize just how effective our government can be in subdue ing and killing off resistance to them. The already have the machinery and the framework in place to turn America into a tolatarian state almost OVERNIGHT. The psychological question then becomes do I submitt and hope things will get better at some future date,or do I resist. I fear that the VAST majority of Americans will submitt, putting those of us who resist in a very precarious position. I keep thinking that only 10% of the actual US population actually took up arms in the American Revolution. I feel that this time it will be even less. I know what my decision will be and have been studying a couple of books on asymmetrical warfare. But I am not optimistic about my ,or any of us for that matters, chances of survival long term. I actually like our chances of survival better if a real EOTWAWKI event was to take place in which the Federal gov was destroyed or rendered inoperable.

        • 10%?!! I only ever heard 3% took part in our revolution!

        • @bigblue

          I believe you are 100% correct my friend. They have way too much invested in this lil experiment called America to just let it go. I cant foresee any EVENT that doesn’t involve a serious gov’t crackdown. Anyone who thinks some SHITs gonna happen, and abra cadabra…no gov’t is crazy. They are going to be the biggest if not only adversary. But big blue, and you may already know this…Most even most here, hell maybe even you and me, will go straight to them or will succumb to their DEMANDS. We all wanna fantasize about being Rambo, but fact is if any of us were. We wouldn’t be where we are today….Maybe the fluorides workin. Good luck God speed.

        • BigBlueDrew: “I fear that the VAST majority of Americans will submit, putting those of us who resist in a very precarious position.”

          I think that’s a reasonable belief. I think betrayal is a very real possibility. It’s going to be ugly and emotionally devastating.

          Also, I’ve heard that it was 3% of the population that took up arms against the British.

      31. Having experienced a major shtf scenario first-hand, I can tell you it is brutal and sifts the population without mercy. All those people who are heavily protected today by the Shriners, welfare systems, sophisticated healthcare institutions etc., will die quickly. Anyone requiring elaborate and expensive support systems to keep them alive, will be the first to go.

        A shtf has a strong bias towards the young and healthy when it comes to physical capability. It also re-arranges sexual roles. Things quickly flip back to basics: strong families can survive but only if they all work together and help each other. Outside the family structure, women face a brutal world of choices: if they are young and pretty, they will need to use their sexual skills to trade for food and wealth. For people who do not fit in to ‘normal’ sex roles, they will not have a good time. Don’t believe me? You can see unfolding in real-time these scenarios in Ukraine and across the Middle East and Africa.

        To survive, you need to be resourceful and able to form alliances. The idea that a loner will last long is false. Short-term and on the run, a loner may make good progress, but if you are staying put, then you will need alliances to survive. You will need to pick a team and stick with them. These teams, as they get stronger, will pick off the loners sitting in their cabins with their weapons and MREs. In time, a power structure will emerge: some strong-man will become the leader and you will need to decide how you relate to that person.

        All of us are already plugged into the system. Vast digital records already exist on all of us. If the government were to choose to disappear people, they would not have a hard time doing it.

        • Spot on Franko. Well said.

        • @Frank

          Might I ask what and where was this major SHTF disaster, in which you were in. I know we’ve had Katrina, and some tornadoes, but I personally would consider those regional. Anyways just asking.

      32. None of us will survive long enough because this is too many years in the making

        • I agree: this is big and bad and they already have crunched the numbers on who lives and who dies. They need to get the global population down quickly and there aren’t too many options on how you do that. The best approach is to initiate a major crisis, cause chaos, and then use austerity and the police state to reduce population numbers of targeted groups.

        • Rich99

          Good point. It is not getting to the other side, but how many I take with me.
          Funny how some outlooks change over time. ;0)

          • Slingshot I think you misunderstood my comment ….what I meant was we will all mostly be dead before any of this transpires due to the years it will take to come to fruition

          • Never get out of this world alive.

      33. The reason that most got into the box car without protest was because they were LIED to about where they were going in order to prevent dealing with chaos.

        I tend to think that had they known, they would have at least tried to fight for their families. Wouldn’t you? Please don’t disrespect their memories by making assumptions like this. You characterize them as spineless people who went to the slaughter like lambs.

        Sorry, I’m just a stickler for Jewish history.

        • Oh, so true … their fellow Jews came around with BS photo albums of the “rest camps” they were being re-located to … they willingly packed up their wealthy goods and traveled to the local train stations – to be loaded like cattle and their slaughter …

          And don’t forget the local gooberments – national/regional/city – they gave orders for the Jew roundup along with the other unwanteds … local cops worked hand-in-hand with the SS troops … regular citizens stabbed their fellow neighbors and bizness owners in the back …

        • That’s a good point. Although perhaps towards the end of the war, some of them probably had an inkling that those boxcars were death cars.

      34. The dam cant collapse soon enough…This is like living in perpetual state of ALMOST vomiting..you know you will feel so so much better afterwards, but you are stuck in the never ending hot flashes and bile in your throat…F*CK lets get this pain OVER WITH ALREADY….I heartily sick and tired of the anticipation from my stomach turning over and cramping up….

        I NEVER IN MY L:IFE seen a population so hesitant and scared of its future than to TRY to claw its way backward from what is INEVITABLE. We have know for a very long time (heard it told over and over again that the Economic collapse was coming…and NOW we cant help but see it coming like a frieght train out of control down the tracks STRAIGHT AT US…even for the NON believers and hecklers that NOTHING would happen…you cant escape the obvious truth…this is going to be VERY PAINFUL, cause MANY MANY DEATHS, and in general be miserable for some years to come……but instead of being hopeful for our future and trying to look byond what is coming, all people can see is the bright headlight racing at them, frozen in fear on the tracks, and not even trying to step off of them….. Well duh you morons, break the trance step off the tracks and get out of the way or dont, I dont care one way or another. Ive got plans I am making to avoid the trainwreck get out of it with cuts and scratches, and do something about life after I am a survivor of it.. much better than standing there in frozen rapt fear of the future without a clue…

      35. The scenario is a poisonous gas leak at near by train track and citizens are forced by local police to evacuate the local area in there cars or by foot or public transport and the directed to (are herded to) areas where information and food and blankets are being staged. No firearms will be allowed in the staging area and must be surrendered or left in vehicle. Boom, you are trapped with family unable to quickly assess what’s just happened or escape. There was or wasn’t a gas leak , doesn’t matter you have been detained and it’s the government’s job what to do with you next, without a shot fired.. Easy. Good luck with prepping for that one.

        • @Laurence

          exactly. we’re all cattle being herded. we all wanna be Rambo, but most of us are just like the jews single file getting on the trains

          • Add to that these people were hungry, dehydrated and sleep deprived.

            In any government democidal roundup they will always exploit people weaknesses against them.

            I have a bug out plan, but my first choice is to hunker down.

      36. The same thing is happening now, the cops are trigger happy and killing off brown/black people left and right. Yet not much is done by the majority. Every body has an excuse, “oh they were asking for it” “oh they were doing wrong and got shot for it” “He wasn’t innocent” How does anybody know any of this? If it was never in a court and no one was questioned and nothing has been done to the cops and they continue to do it to people? How can you stand there and not see it for what it is? Do you think they will stop when they see your blue eyes? When they see your golden hair they will back off? Is that what you are thinking? It’s what a lot of people thought back then. I’m not a homo so they won’t come for me! Oh! I’m not a Gypsy, they won’t come for me! Oh! I’m not handicapped they wont come for me! Oh I’m not black they won’t come for me! Oh! I’m not Mexican they won’t come for me! The government does not care! When they begin to implement these tactics on the people when the SHTF, they will classify you! If you are on this site, you better believe that they are coming for you! Actually you should know that you are at the top of their list. Preppers, survivalist, Christians, white males, and anybody that disagrees with them, you are at the very top of that list. If you don’t do anything to stop them now, it will be too late when they are knocking your door down and your kids are in the same house with you. Don’t get fooled by divisions, Republican/Democrats all are alike most politicians are alike they will not help you or save you. You will have to rely on people. Every day normal Joes who wake up and go to work every day. We need to get together now! And change it now! With non-violence and speaking up about these injustices. If you don’t just know that violence will befall on your kids in the future and you better hope that they spent time reading on these sites, and getting a clue, if not, then just know that they will suffer horribly.

      37. after shtf pain will be normal. hopefully not debilitating.
        i worked lifting heavy sacks of mail and pulled a muscle in my back. still kept working but hurt like hell. but i could tell it was not damaging, just pain. just pain is going to make a comeback big time. when i moved up from Arizona to Minnesota, it was in November. i woke up in knots for a month. and don’t forget the average person will again smell like a bears ass.

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