This article was originally published by Mike Ox at TacticsAndPreparedness.com and DryFireTrainingCards.com.
Ox here with 4 myths about firearms accuracy that bad guys believe and you shouldn’t
MYTH 1. You can’t shoot accurately with a (fill in the blank) pistol.
Normally, I hear this argument about subcompacts, pistols/revolvers with long heavy triggers, or pistols that have a long double action for the first round and a single action thereafter.
The fact is that all of these make firing fast and accurate groups more difficult, but it shouldn’t be an excuse for poor performance.
If you have a sub-compact pistol or revolver that shoots large groups, I challenge you to put it in a gun vice, shoot a few rounds with it at 10-15 feet, and see just how precise and accurate it really is.
9 times out of 10, when someone gives me a gun and tells me that it’s all over the place, I can put the next 5 rounds into a 1″ group. Am I a good shot? Yes. But I’m incredibly average as far as physical ability and natural vision go. I’ve just put the time in to be able to consistently grip with 3 of my fingers, keep my thumb relaxed, and patiently focus on the front sight while I slowly press my index finger straight back. The great news about that is that you can practice 90% of what you need to be able to shoot precisely in your living room or basement, doing dry fire, without using any ammo.
And once you can do it with a subcompact or a gun with a “difficult” trigger, you can perform with ANY pistol or revolver.
MYTH 2. It’s better to practice spreading your shots rather than shooting 1 hole groups.
The logic here is that, as you’re practicing on paper targets, you should TRY to spread out your shots so that you’ll do more damage to more organs and hopefully stop your attacker faster.
I believe the exact opposite…that you should practice shooting 1 hole groups and progressively adding speed, motion, and/or stress. Here’s why:
First: Keep in mind that shooting a 1 hole group is a litmus test. The faster you can do it, the more solid your mechanical, vision, and mental skills are for shooting. The slower you have to go, or if you can’t do it at all, indicates that you have some low hanging fruit for improvement. Check out http://1holechallenge.com for more info on this.
Second: When you know you can shoot 1 hole groups, your EARNED (not bluster & bravado) confidence goes up. When your earned confidence is high, you stay calmer. When you stay calmer and remain more in control in an extreme stress situation, you’ll dump less adrenaline, have a lower heart rate, you’ll be able to suppress your fight or flight response, and the higher level implicit system of the brain will remain more in control…all of which leads to seeing and identifying threats faster, reacting faster, and performing closer to how you would under ideal conditions. (Confidence is 1 of many factors…having it won’t guarantee success, but a lack of confidence greatly increases the chance of failure in an extreme stress situation)
Third: Let’s look at the “TRYING to spread out your shots increases damage” myth.
Theoretically, I agree with this with a carbine or rifle.
A pistol is not a carbine or rifle. A pistol is a relatively pathetic tool for stopping lethal threats in a timely manner and it normally takes multiple well placed shots to stop the threat from a determined attacker who is at close range. (Determined attacker=one who doesn’t turn and run at the sight of a muzzle blast, regardless of what it does.) If you take exception to my comment about pistol ammo being pathetic, check your state’s hunting laws and see what caliber they consider to be the minimum humane caliber to use on deer. In most states, you’ll find that the guns that most people carry on a daily basis aren’t legal for hunting.
So, back to spreading your groups out vs. 1 hole groups…
2 things…First off, shooting a one hole group at a static paper target standing flat footed doesn’t necessarily translate to shooting a 1 hole group on a dynamic attacker when you’re moving. If you train to shoot 1 hole groups…or at least tight groups, you’ll get the 2-5″ groups that you’re looking for in combat when you add in speed, stress, and motion. If you insist on shooting a standard of 5-8″ groups in practice (without being able to shoot 1 hole groups), stats and hundreds of police after action reports per year show that you’ll probably miss your target with 8-9 of 10 shots fired.
Second, keep in mind that even the best defensive ammo is weak and underpowered compared to carbine and rifle ammunition and piling round after round on top of each other is a wonderful thing…if you have a specific purpose and target in mind. If you’re piling round after round through the lower right quadrant of the belly, you’re wasting time and ammo. But if you’re viewing your attacker 3 dimensionally, as you should be, and aiming through the body for the T3-T4 vertebrae, then let’s say, for arguments sake, that the first round uses up a lot of it’s energy punching through clothing and the sternum or other bone. The 2nd shot could go 2″ away from it and spend a lot of it’s energy punching through barriers again, OR it could go right through the first hole and have significantly more energy to disrupt the circulatory system or possibly even get a CNS stoppage by hitting the spine. Will it really happen? Probably not. The first example is more realistic than this one–the chance of you and your attacker being in the exact same spot and orientation from 1 shot to the next is next to zero…which is all the more reason to TRY to pile your rounds on top of each other rather than adding a variable to the equation.
MYTH 3. All fine motor skills will fail under extreme stress.
I LOVE this argument, mainly because I’ve been passionate on both sides of it. I used to be passionate that all fine motor skills failed under extreme stress…until I had enough people who’d been in combat multiple times tell me I was wrong. Fine motor skills don’t fail under stress, PEOPLE fail under stress and people can train and inoculate themselves to stress to the point where they can respond calmly and precisely in situations where others default to gross motor skills or freeze.
This is kind of tricky and fuzzy, but suffice it to say that there’s a gauntlet that you have to go through before you respond calmly in situations where others get over-amped up or freeze and you won’t know that you’ve made it through until you’ve been tested and had one or more successful outcomes…be it simulated (realistically) or real.
What you’ll find is that the more you’ve practiced a given fine or complex motor skill, the longer you’ll be able to perform it at higher pulse rates and higher adrenaline (among other brain chemical/hormone) levels. In other words, it’s more accurate to say that fine motor skills will fail when you have an extreme reaction to an extreme stress event. Here’s an example: If you’ve had someone with intent point a gun at you at close range 20 times (what I’d call an extreme stress event) and walked away the winner every time, you’re going to be much calmer the 21st time than someone else will be if it’s their first time.
MYTH 4. You fall down and stop fighting or die when you get shot.
At the beginning of the Global War On Terror, people were getting shot with non immediate life threatening wounds, not realizing they were shot (and still fighting) and then, when they saw that they were shot, falling on the ground screaming like what they’d seen people do on TV and sometimes even dying.
It’s what we see on TV & movies. When you play paintball and get hit, you raise your gun and yell “I’m hit” or “I’m out” and stop fighting. Same with airsoft. Same with MOST wax bullet and simunition training. It’s not reality.
There’s a 90%+ chance that you’ll survive a single gunshot wound…and that’s without body armor. SO KEEP FIGHTING IF YOU GET HIT and finish the fight!
Thoughts? Questions? Supporting or Contradictory Experience? Sound off by commenting below…
Ox is an avid defensive and competitive shooter who has co-created several firearms training products, including Dry Fire Training Cards. His team is made up of current and former law enforcement and military special operations instructors with an emphasis on accelerated learning techniques for shooting as well as controlling brain state and brain chemistry for optimal performance in extreme stress situations. Learn more about dynamic dry fire training for defense and competition at www.DryFireTrainingCards.com.
Follow the blog at TacticsAndPreparedness.com.
Myth five… An unarmed person caint beat a armed sap… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Suck it up dudes.
i don’t believe in guns and I don’t own any guns. Cough… Cough…
The man should be teaching in the “hood”, know how many lives he would save? Better than midnight basketball.
Respect… The man certainly ain’t no sap… Run away!
I enjoyed that vid… Thanks js
Myth #5 and I see it on this site all the time. I only need one gun and not alot of ammo cause I’ll get the guns and ammo off of the dead guys. Get real! You think your going to shoot a bunch of bad guys and run out and gather up all the guns and ammo. LOL. Talk about a sitting duck. Trekker Out. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum!
Yep , and then take all their food too.
How many #10 cans can ya carry while still being able to use a weapon ?
lots of keyboard commando talk , hahaha
Too many people practice video game warfare and not enough think about actual warfare. Sorry, but in a real world situation, there is no floating icon that gives you ammo and no spawn point that you resurrect at once you have been killed.
Just bought the Mrs a p238 rainbow, unbelievable subcompact pistol. I was within a 6″ circle at 15 yds after 10 rds. I’m not quite that accurate with my 5906. Subs may get a bad report with some, but that little Sig is awesome. Oh, the rainbow is what she wanted, but it looks cool and shoots great. I would advise anyone to look into it, pricy @ $700, but I can overlook the price for effectiveness. Carry on.
That P238 is sweet. It’s on my must have list.
I’m a fan of Sig Sauer, and I do like their combination single-action double-action trigger with the decocking lever. I train with it and have no problem firing that first shot accurately in either mode.
I understand the slide recoil spring is good for a limited number of shots in a P238, a couple thousand rounds or so, but I understand Sig Sauer sells replacements in five packs at a very reasonable cost. Knowing this I’d still buy one. Along with a pack or two of springs.
A guy at the range with a P238 has a slide recoil spring broken in with about 200 rounds on it. He takes it out and and uses a worn one for range practice. When that spring is shot he breaks in an proves a new one, then uses the last for range practice. For carry he always returns the best spring in the pistol during cleaning.
My wife cannot cycle the slide on my .45 P227 Sig. She lacks the hand strength. That P238 can be cycled by anyone. It’s very easy to shoot, and it shoots well.
Hey Plan Twice,
There is nothing wrong with the stock Sig spring in the p238! That model, much like the p938 has a hardened aluminum frame and a blackened stainless slide. Both models are “real” guns. By that, I mean they are well made, with excellent metals and fit, and this leads to longevity. By the way, your wife can certainly operate the p227 slide. You, as her spouse, are unable to teach your wife to shoot, play golf, or drive! And in this case, add teaching her to properly activate the 227 slide.
I have taught my wife how to cock it using the heel of a shoe (IDF Special Forces method) or on a piece of furniture or a door frame, so yes she can in a pinch.
Not only can she not physically cock it since rotator cuff surgery, the skin on her fingers starts tearing and bleeding when she tries.
Nothing personal but you are clueless when it comes health issues affecting millions of shooters.
There is a subtle story here for preppers. Include some firearms in your collection that you could easily opperate, even if you are injured or weakened. The Sig Sauer P238 is a perfect choice, as is an AR-15, as is an auto .20 gauge shotgun, and a Ruger 10/22 takedown.
It’s an Ad. It’s a damned ad.
I do a lot of dry fire, because we can’t shoot where I live these days. It does “train” the reflexes and keeps the ones you have in shape. I do miss putting 500 rds a month, downrange in my backyard, at my old home on the mainland. Always a mix of trap, rifle , and defensive pistol. My shots were always for the smallest group possible, in the same spot.
That takes care of myths 1 and 2.
As to myth 3 and 4, I shake when I get scared, and most people survive a single gunshot, but don’t do so good with 10 or 16 holes in them.
Find a small carry gun that also handles a larger Magazines. My buddy just picked up a .40 Cal compact. That has 8 rounds. Then I showed him my 9mm subcompact, that has a 20 Round Mag + 1, with an extended grip like a full size. I said if he and I were in a gun fight, I would throw more than 2-1/2 times the ammo at him, than he could throw at me. You don’t even have to be a good shot, just aim and keep pulling the trigger till they stop moving. Anyway, a pistol is just a firearm that will lay down enough fire till you can get to your battle rifle. So Go with the High Capacity Mags. I also told my sister who carries a small 9mm Glock to pick up 4x 30 round magazines, 2 to keep in the car glove box and 2 to keep at her bedside. I said in the heat of battle, you don’t want to be fiddling with changing magazines.
Though we could fire right outside the door, we found it easier on our budget to invest in two LaserLyte “bullets” and one Target. Surely saves on rounds and encourages training. (It’s rather addicting …and A LOT of ‘jacking’ since there is no eject/reload sequence).
Its people like you that scare me. No training, just carry more bullets and keep spraying don’t worry about what’s around you or them that you will hit or kill in you battle with a bad guy. Please stay home with all you ammo.
Air soft pistols can be used even in an apartment. You can buy pistols that have the look feel and weight of your regular weapons, but won’t blow holes in the walls. Safety goggles for everyone please. Have someone set up a threat or two and then sweep the house for it.
Paintball parks are another avenue. Go there intending to be the guy that doesn’t get shot. It can be a serious exercise in cover and tactics. It will help you learn to deal with tunnel vision and provides a serious simulated threat level. I’ve seen a few paintballers that were a little too scary serious about it. Then there are the techno-geek paintballers that go high end and hang out in the back playing the long range sniper. They usually outlast most, their tweaked paintball guns have like 30 to 50% more range than the rented guns. You’ll learn the value of teams and crossing fields of fire. A critical bit of mindset is to never get used to being shot.
Disengage then circle back…
relik ~ Could you at least practice in your current location with sub-sonic .22 LR? –or even a pellet-gun?
Some of the wisest advice regarding self defense with a firearm has come from Bill Jordan and Elmer Keith. I’m not sure who said what or even if all of the below can be attributed to them but here goes.
1. The best handgun to use is the most powerful one that you can handle.
2. A hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .45
3. The first rule of armed self defense is to be armed. The gun in the nightstand or glove compartment does you no good unless your in the room or car.
4. If the threat is behind cover shoot at the best part exposed until a better part appears.
great list, kevin!
I work construction. And with standard wood or cinder block . Shoot through the corner. FMJs definatly will get through . Good SJHP. Will get through. Don’t wait for exposed. Shoot through. Idiots will tell you otherwise. Drywall and studs are not cover . Unless you are in a movie.
The successful gun fighters of the old west like Hickok and Earp stood still and aimed making shot placement the number one priority. Seeking cover, ducking and the like was considered useless. No doubt its the correct thing to do but its difficult when the legs take on a mind of their own. Earp’s body was never hit but his clothes were. He lived until the 1920s.
Dang! Considering how many men had superb control of their firearms all missed his ass is nearly unbelievable. One lucky sob eh? lol… NOFEAR!
Never discount the contribution of luck in the encounter.
Wyatt Erps . World famous cast iron vest is never mentioned and erased from history. Who writes the history books? Cole youngers salted unstretched bull hide vest isn’t mentioned either. Who writes the history . Just like WW 2 it’s all lies. Wake up .who controls the media who owns the media. We should have no mercy for the stupid.
How can we know the tactics of these men? Who can say for sure what they did Orr didn’t do. It’s written that Hickok liked a cross draw . But forward. Gun but. And he started with a dragoon 45 . During the civil war . But settled on two 38 navy’s . But who do we believe ? It’s written that Jesse James carried 4 top break scofeild revolvers at all times . But how do we know for sure. Seems like that would be a good idea. 24 rounds to go without reloading. Top break reloads quick. It seems common sense would say wear a vest and have lots of quick bullets to go. Regardless of your time of life.
They stood still . To ensure they would get shot in their vest.
The first and only rule that will allow you to use any other rule (unless you’re extremely lucky) is to be armored. Even unarmed, being armored can allow you to evasively counter-charge your assailant; missing you with your evasive movements, if you are hit, your armor can give you a chance of survival–especially if that “90%+ chance that you’ll survive a single gunshot wound…and that’s without body armor” thing holds true.
Keep firing and firing and firing…..til the gun is empty. Most of your conceal carry pistols only hold 6-7 round. Practice changing mags quickly too. Practice,practice practice!
not everybody CARRIES an extra mag….a BIG mistake, when SECONDS count.
Carrying two Glocks with a total of 5 spares (aside from what are in the pistols). 3 in a belt system and 2 in a “Galco Miami Sling” …nice leather. The FBI says firefights average Four Rounds, so I’ve got enough for several firefights at the same time. Practicing everything is an everyday ritual that has truly paid off after having done it over an entire lifetime. Though I’ve no idea how well I could hit a moving target if I were moving as well. (That situation just never happened in the military …and thankfully not in civilian life …yet).
love seeing prepared people….one less that will show up at MY door with their hand out.
you fight as you practice, so practice as you would fight.
Carry Daily’ Ignore the Gun Ban Rules – Remember this: Luby’s Massacre
In 1991 Texas residents were banned by law from bringing firearms into restaurants. That same year, a mad man with an intent to kill as many people as possible, crashed his truck into a Lubys Cafeteria in Killeen. The man got out of his vehicle and shot 50 people, killing 23 of them. One of the survivors, Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp, had left her gun in the parking lot and watched as her parents were executed in front of her. She was following the rules and obeying the law by leaving her gun in the car, right where the killer knew it would be. As Hupp describes in her own words, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Everyone was defenseless.
As a survivor of the Luby’s massacre, Hupp testified across the country in support of concealed-handgun laws. She said that if there had been a second chance to prevent the slaughter, she would have violated the Texas law and carried the handgun inside her purse into the restaurant. She testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996. The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush.
Link: ht tp://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/09/09/the-lubys-cafeteria-massacre-a-stark-reminder-to-restaurants-telling-customers-no-guns-n1889052
I see these guys doing their shooting drills standing up not behind cover. And wonder how long they think they will last standing up not behind cover. It’s a joke. And it’s a serious joke. You go from cover to cover. On your belly. These idiot trainers will get you killed.
At night time, keep a good pair of quick slip on boots or shows at your bedside. Imagine some shoots your Windows out glass all over The floor, you jump out or bed and are scrambling and cut the hell out of your feet and die bleeding from glass cuts and fragments. So slip on your shoes first then head into battle. If your feet are messed up, You are just a sitting duck ~quack quack.
Yep 2 problems, with range practice shooting, the target is not moving, and you are not moving and out of breath.
You can however at the range, put the paper target all the way down range, say 25 yards, get a Friend to flip the target return pully, so your target is moving at you as you are shooting at it. Then see how accurate you are at putting holes in a 1″ ring. Put some stiff cardboard behind the target to keep the target erect as it moves at you. Not sure if the Range Officer will let you shoot at the target returning, but maybe ask first. I know many indoor gun ranges will not let you draw your gun from a holster and shoot, as they require the gun in front of you or laying on the shelf. I suspect many amateurs will shoot themselves in the leg drawing, and they range does not want that liability.
I am setting up about a 30-40 yard gun range on my BOL Property. for some fun and practice… I’d like to get the 8″ and 10″ AR500 round target plates, then set up some imaginary cover positions and practice advancing to the target. Run and Gun.. remember to keep yourself small, by laying on the ground in a supine position, (face Up) legs spread and shooting between your feet at the target, then rolling, and advancing. A moving target is harder to hit. In a gun battle, you just need to be a little better and faster than your opponent.
Also as a former Paramedic, I have seen lots of gunshots. Mostly .22 which can do a lot of damage when the round goes in the chest, bounces around the ribcage, up the neck, then ends up coming out the ear. When shot, remove all the clothing, so you can see both the entrance wound and the exit wound, and calculate everything between those 2 points than can be damaged. Do you have a schematic of the location of vital organs in your Med bag blow out kit? Print one up and stick it in there. Even stomach gut shots can be deadly, when it rip intestines open, and the inners contents spill out into the stomach cavity, causing septic shock if not treated immediately with antibiotics.
Leg & arm extremities wounds not fatal, unless the arteries are severed, which massive amounts of blood loss causes death within minutes. You should always carry at least 3 Tourniquets with you. You can also use old bike inter-tube tires as tourniquets. I even carry these in my first aid kits and in the center counsel of my vehicle for a quick grab. Seconds to react to stop the bleeding is crucial for survival. Go research common Gunshot wounds and how to treat them.
Lone wolverine; damn right. NEVVA “go static” (motionless), but keep moving LOW and be damned quick about it. This is exactly why everyone should ALREADY have ensured they have PLENTIFUL positions to USE AS COVER in the event you need them. (And you don’t want to learn this “in the aftermath”).
You ALSO have complete control of what kinds of cover they can make use of while on approach to your BOL: (read: Nuthin’ at at but bare ground and you have trees and boulders, holes and tunnels (if you believe they have grenades “incoming”, logs are self-explanatory (and can be ‘predressed’ with leaves and certain camos that make it nigh-near impossible to see through (a perfect nest). They all work well if you only will make them first and before you need them.
Not to mention you have nearly complete control of what direction they can approach from, if your BOL property allows you ‘natural’ blockades’ (rock faces straight up and down, etc). I would hate to think of what a 3/8″ cable might do to aircraft if it were suspended at the entrance to the boxed in canyon, which has a pretty good height at the beginning. Dang what a mess… (That would cost a small fortune. Would heavy fishing line lash up a chopper)? ….yeah ….40,000 feet of it would make one “hell of a nest”! They’d bounce on impact 🙂 Nevermind, it was just a thought…
Equorial . You just saved many lives. We will win. Keep the faith.
Agree completely with this comment.
But just going to a range and popping off some rounds is really only the first baby step to be in full control of your skills and capabilities. You must develop the correct mindset and overall skills via target acquisition in any and all possible scenarios and positions , not just static shooting at a still target. The range is necessary for beginners and basic training, but there is much more to encounter and be skilled at so you are completely familiar in all possible situations. And it definitely goes hand in hand with your overall training of fitness and health. If you cannot move effectively and return fire for a lack of physical ability, you are spinning your wheels largely.
Some good points in this article and my only questions are about the 90% survivability ? How much of that is based on current very rapid medivac and or medical attention ? Realize that may not necessarily be available, so any gut shot could be fatal with no medical assistance readily available ? A blanket statement of 90% I do not buy given the surrounding possible circumstance or lack of medical help quickly. Also at what range/distance was he referring to for pistols ? I train at 25 ‘, 50’ and 75 ‘. This gets you very familiar with your own weapon of choice at all ranges that are feasible. Largely beyond that is sketchy at best as the bullets tend to wander with distance. At the shorter distances it really boils down to point and shoot rapidly , with no site picture and that skill is also improved greatly with much practice.
I just got back from the BOL a few hours ago. I was getting 2″ groups from my Taurus PT111 9mm easily. I manage 1″ groups from my Ruger SR22 even in my sleep. When I put in range time at home, I generally go with the .22LR since it’s still cheaper to practice with that than any other caliber. At the BOL I also had my M1Carbine and Ruger 10/22 rifles with me and managed 1″ groups easily. The BOL is the only place I take the rifles and shotgun for practice. We have only one outdoor range in my area where I live and you have to be a member of the NRA to get a membership there. F#$% the NRA when all they do is work to compromise the 2A. And after each practice session, I strip down my weapons and give them the maintenance they need. Take good care of your weapons and they’ll take good care of you when you need them the most.
i love the M-1 Carbine. I got 2. Both 1943 Inland Division.
I love shooting these guns. They are true craftsmanship and a a true piece of history.
A great design in all respects that successfully performed beyond its initial mission.
I have a newer M1 carbine. I’ll stick with my SKS. SKS will take more abuse, is cheaper to shoot, and its got a really neat built-in pig sticker.
Commercial copies of the M-1 are total crap, especially Universal. Universal is TOTAL garbage.
Yep. That’s what I got. Always issues with extraction ejection. Guess need a new bolt group.
The best thing you can do is take the gun completely apart, take the barrel off, bolt, carrier, trigger, sights and sling off.
Then throw everything in the trash except the sling. Then buy a war model and use the sling!!!
People that inherit M-1 carbines can’t be choosers. It will be lost on a fishing trip.
I bought my 2. One from Gunbroker and the other locally out of the classifieds. Paid $420 in 2010 for the most expensive one.
If you go to the gun shows they are at least 900 to 1,000 dollars. Then they are just pieced and parted together, not complete serial numbers.
All M1 Carbines are all part guns. All parts we’re made by various manufactures and there was a final point of assembly unlike M1 Rifles which were individually manufactured.
They are both excellent pieces, and I also prefer the SKS as a back up rifle to newer model 7.62X39 rifles. An excellent round that is cheap to train with and very effective knockdown for a liter 30 cal. No doubt ARs are lighter and more accurate than AKs, but the durability is my concern. Most fire fights occur at 200 yards or less and an AK is deadly at that short range if you are well trained out and have your rifle dialed in. There are also other rifles in the same caliber that are excellent as well like the CZs. I have fired many thousands of rounds thru both AR and AK types and some in battle conditions. And that is what I base my preferences on, not what somebody else says ?
An m1 carbine with hollow points is a very serious weapon. Who can argue with that?
Good Job Brave..
Guns have 2 enemies. The Government and Rust.
~WWTI… Thanks Mac for finally posting a gun article. Keep em’ coming. Being armed is the first line of defense and our survival above and beyond any other Prep. Air or Water will do you no good, if you are full of holes.
Hi again cuz, I can certainly affirm that you’re the best shot when it comes to openin cans of beans with a twelve gauge.
Though we’re still awondering why you don’t just git yourself a can opener like normal folk.
Stay safe in that there city Cuz, lookin forward to seeing you back here at your bol, even though it’s a proper burden gittin the bean juice outa the dowgs fur.
PS. Don’t go forgit to bring the chewin backy when you return. Be seein ya.
If it wasn’t for the NRA you wouldn’t have a gun and a slingshot ban would be proposed.
The NRA lives in the real world where you get the best deal you can at the time. A prime example is the 1994 Clinton Assault Gun / Magazine restriction ban. The NRA had the foresight to put in a 10 year expiration. After working the political climate for a decade the ban expired in 2004 without sufficient political support to reinstate it. Such is the NRA long term planning. The gains with shall issue and now Constitutional Carry we’re initiatives from the NRA. When they lose they come back as best as possible. I fled NJ over 25 years ago as sometimes, demographics are just too powerful to overcome.
Sorry Kevin2, I have to agree with Braveheart on this one.
This is the problem with the idea of compromise, no one is happy. The NRA should have stood their ground and demanded NO BAN.
You say you fled NJ ?? What happens when there is nowhere left to flee to ?? Do I wish for an armed conflict with our government, hell no, but if we hadn’t done that over 200 years ago, we’d all be speaking with british accents and referring to our money as crowns and pence and quid.
Originally, the wife picked a Ruger .38 Special +P and within a week was keeping it but buying a Glock 9×19 9mm Parabellum because it had such a recoil (even without +P), it would leave a considerable bruise on the lower part of her right thumb. (Tender tissue in there has changed a LOT of “go to” guns for many)! It honestly has not been fired out of all five holes yet …most likely. Just three (and the two the factory boys pump through them). At worst all have been used one time. (It IS much less noticeable perceived recoil if you wear even a slim gripping glove
(we both have other backups with way less recoil that hold double the amount of bullets or more, so it stays ‘carefully placed’ just in case it is ever needed. Every home should have a few to choose from …(not so much with young’uns of course).
It’s not a myth that’s it’s difficult to put multiple accurate shots into a perp with a pistol. That’s why we have shotguns.
And yes it IS difficult to use a gun when your life is on the line.
i knew a police man that got shot in the big toe and die from it.
He always said that if he ever got shot it would kill him. He did not have a survival mindset.
He got shot in the toe and gave himself a heart attack.
Get good knee and elbow pads and practice crawling and shooting.
90% don’t survive being shot with a 12guage00buck. Go big, live to go home.
Selco said . There is no such thing as one shot stops. Except with a shotgun.
The ONLY way to survive a .12ga hit with birds hot at close range is a STRONG will toward life and FAST medical care.
And yes, I’m alive to prove it. (Got the scars, AND the pictures. Available on request. The pictures anyway; guess I’ll keep the scars. ..)
Get an automatic shotgun. The best cost the most. Buckshot is still cheap considering. And the most effective round you can get. F the experts. F the AR. It’s a fools gun. Shotguns rule the night . And only a fool goes out in broad daylight. Think about it. You go out at day you die. Ask a. Vet.. Ask yourself. Are my chances better at night. What do I need at night. Bullet proof plates. Pellet in. The head or leg then the head. How many 32 caliber pellets can you dump in how many seconds. And their infrared usually dosent work. We think they have it . But their down time . Keep the faith.. And get an auto shotgun. F an AR.
i disagree with the AUTO shotgun….i KNOW that my 870 pump shotgun will cycle that round EVERY time….maybe even MORE often than THAT!….no, i aint trusting MY life to an auto shotgun….and just don’t forget that if you are more than 60 yards or so away from a man with a RIFLE, he wins. MY shotgun won’t go OUTSIDE.
Maybe you are right .buttcrack. As long as you don’t short stroke . As long as both of your arms are not injured. As long as your water is good . And your not too week to pump. Modern autos are pretty good . But it’s your choice.
INSIDE the home a Mossberg 500 00BUCK is our ‘go to’. Outside I would always go with an AR, and nothing but.
You DON”T DO THE PERIMETER with a shotgun as THEY HAVE BIG BORE RIFLES, you have (or had), an M16 or AK …never a shotgun (for a backup, a grenade launcher now …as in “over and unders”).
Can we have those too?
Shotguns rule period.
Shoot some skeet, perfect practice for moving targets, shooting fast and accurately.
I also take my shotgun onto the range with low velocity slugs. They let me know exactly where I’m hitting. With my auto I can shoot them fast, accurately and all day long… Ok as long as I can afford the ammo. With slugs I shoot 75 to a hundred yards and hold a six inch group doing rapid double taps. I ride the recoil on the first shot, so the second shot is always a head shot.
If your shotgun is smooth bore, get a rifled turkey choke and use rifled slugs.
Many a bear hunter has been killed by the bear they shot with a rifle, never heard of one being mauled after shooting a bear with 12 gauge slugs.
I have a 50 round 12 gauge ammo belt hanging with the shotgun, 25 rounds of #4 Buck on one end, and the other end every other loop is loaded with slugs. By feel alone I can choose what Is appropriate for indoors or out.
I have some 1600fps high velocity slugs that are freightingly devastating, but they hurt to shoot and accuracy suffers. Low velocity (1200fps) slugs are easy and accurate, and will still be devestating to even the largest game in America.
Plan twise I agree we will be fighting at night. A rifle will be useless . There will be no bench rest. We will be sick and exhausted . Aiming will be a luxury.. But soft spoiled Americans can’t imagine that. Yes their will be sniping . In Wyoming . At anybody stupid enough to expose themselves. If you are depending on a stupid enemy . Get a sniper rifle. Or grab them by there belt buckle . So they can’t bomb you. And be an exhausted starving soldier . And get them up close.
Have some kind of night vision, even if it is home made. A night vision security camera paired with a good video eyepiece.
There are reasonable cost solutions as well as DIY.
If you can see at night and they can’t, you win. It’s that simple.
There are also cheap easy to make DIY suits that will let you hide from high end government issued thermal night vision.
By the way I’m the guy at the range who gets on the dirt and shoots prone for a couple hours, while everyone else sits at a bench. I was about to say more, but i know better, good night.
You won’t get close enough to me to use a shotgun. That AR you don’t like can effectively cut you down LONG before you’re in shotgun range. Shotguns for home defense, yes, trench warfare, yes. In true battle conditions though I’m not letting anyone within 300 yards of me and that shotty just won’t do it then.
Hog hunting in the south you can barely see 50 yards. And at night . 300 yards? Who is stupid enough to go out in broad daylight. In the movies maybe ?stop with this daylight fighting. There is no such thing. Think about it . Only an idiot goes out in broad daylight.
A good shotgun slug gun is good at any range an AR is, plus it makes huge freaking holes that nothing recovers from. For longer, I have other options.
It all depends on where you get shot and with what.
If the bullet severs your spinal cord, you will collapse no matter what.
Jesus…..everyone makes life so difficult.
You want to be good at shooting? Then go shoot and go shooting often.
Too many people go out and buy a gun, take it to the range ONE time then just pull it out to show their buddies every time they come over.
Shoot any intruders that are wearing bullet proof vests in the face or the balls. There are 2 big arteries in the groin crotch area. And well they just didn’t need their brain anyway since they weren’t using it, when they decided to go after you in the first place. Also learn to “slice the pie” When doing room to room clearning, or around building corners. YouTube has some food vids on slicing the pie.
food vids..??? slicing the Pie…? I meant, Good Vids and “slicing the pie.” I finally figured out how to turn off that damn “spell incorrect function” on my cell phone. POS function.
I agree the dam 22 might save our nation. If everyone had a 22 rifle we would be unbeatable.
Had a buddy of mine tell me he had some bullet proof glass from a bank they did some work on. He said he took the glass to a police range. Let the cops shoot at it with their .40 & 9 MM with little to no penetration. Then he said watch this. He took a .22 and put a hole clean through it. The cops were astonished he said.
I don’t know this guy spews a lot of BS so I only believe about half of what he says. But maybe the small size and FPS did penetrate the glass. Anybody have thoughts on that?
Also bullet proof bests, can be penetrated with a sharp knife and arrows. maybe from a cross bow, due to the small sharpness. Any other thoughts or experience on this?
Many of you were not around at the time.
But I know all you good guys, and Law Enforcement who are on this site can appreciate this one.
Let’s ask CLINT what he thinks.
You got the floor DIRTY HARRY.
or DO YOU FEEL LUCKY PUNK on YOUTUBE
During the South African war they found the average combat distance to be 40 yards. Grab them by the belt buckle . Or they can loob mortars on you . You have to stay close. Or they can bomb you. One shot stops so you don’t have to look back. During the first revolutionary war we used 70 caliber guns. In the second revolutionary war we will use 70 caliber 12 gage. Guns . Get a shotgun and only go out at night.
We trust auto rifles all day long . But not auto shotguns. I tell people to watch war movies and think what would you want in that situation. And 99 % of the time you would want an auto shotgun.
He wins ? What is he standing in the open like a paper target. Or is he hiding and moving.? Is he stupid enough to go out in broad daylight? Are we Americans totally out of touch with reality? Hunting deer? Hogs? Most people are a little smarter than hogs. And better armed.you think you will spot the enemy in the open past 60 yards. You must be hoping for a stupid enemy. Remember you might be fighting guys just as smart as you. They will sneak in close. And try to shoot you in the back. Shotgun time.
Brian wood. Cody Roland. Two Idaho deputies . They need their family adjusted. And hopefully burn in hell. And all you government lovers . Look and learn Payback is coming. Help in the Muslims . To get your pension. We have your names. O you were just obeying orders . Water boarding is now legal for traitors. Expect it . Expecialy for the fam. F yours. Pay back.
Don’t know what I said in the past, but the last couple months, my comments don’t appear. WTF Mac?
Well, a great way to get everyone’s attention is to “rack” a Mossberg streetsweeper… (not auto but…)
If might have worked in the 1960-70s maybe 80s.
But now people are so zombied out they would not care.
Or because they watch so much video games they might just say
Sorry for the last post I was a little angry. But I do think we will be crossing the Delaware at night on Christmas Eve. Just like George . And yes it will be considered dirty fighting . But we will be outnumbered and have no choice. If we want to win. We will have to get as dirty as George. Get a good sneak up on them on Christmas Eve and shoot them in the back gun. Shotgun or red dot sight rifle would probably be best. Down and dirty that’s Georges way . And if it’s good enough for George it’s good enough for me. I make no judgements. When will this nightmare be over.
Actually I see 50,000 patriots moving in open carry in a peaceful demonstration,on the White House, only to be turned into hamburger by Obama with helicopter gun ships.
But it will be our Kent state moment, that awakens a sleeping nation.
I don’t want to bad mouth rifles. I just want us to win. And in low light . Or moving targets. I think the more shotguns the better. Try squirrel ,rabbit , dove , pheasant , turkey, hunting with a AR. Yea I know people are different. We think. I just say consider a shotgun expecialy at night. Just think about it. We want to win? Up close and personal.
Try squirrel ,rabbit , dove , pheasant , turkey, hunting with a AR. Yea I know people are different
There would be nothing left of the critter to eat if you blasted it with an AR. Everything you mentioned can be taken with a .410 shotgun. Anything heavier will blow it apart. Except for the turkey which a med 12g load will do.
Where should I start? First off when I’m fighting for my life,I’m not going to be fussy about shooting perfect group shots. I’m shooting to stop the attack.Secondly, I,nor the author,nor anyone else knows how they’re going to react when SHTF.I may go into a dead faint,pun intended,or I may come out of the fight a superhero.Either way I know my panties will probably need changing.If someone is shot,they may very well not notice until it’s over. Again,they may go into shock seeing so much as a trickle of blood from a scratch. Different people,different reactions.Stay safe
My brother was doing contracting work in the desert, some cowboy likely with a field of herbs, opened up on him with a rifle.
He returned fire with a 357 mag, and began backing away.
No one was injured, they just disengaged, and went their ways.
Survivors avoid the fight whenever possible.
Dang! All my guns went down in that boat accident! Shoot!