What Will You Do When the Lights Go Out?

by | Nov 30, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 328 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Some people believe that we are hurtling towards physical disaster with our delicate electrical grid. Just how that disaster might occur is open for debate, but we need only look at major power outages over the last few years to see how precarious our grasp on electricity is. It isn’t a matter of “if” the lights will go out, but a matter of “when”.

    Severe weather has given the grid a walloping over the past few years. For example, three years ago, parts of Kentucky, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Indiana, Illinois, West Virginia and Missouri suffered through 3 weeks sans power after a record-setting ice storm. Last summer, people in the Washington, DC metropolitan area were without power for a week during a heat wave as the result of a severe thunderstorm accompanied by high winds. And most recently, of course, we have witnessed the plight of the victims of Hurricane Sandy as they have struggled to function in the most populated area in the United States without electricity and running water, all while attempting to clean up the detritus of the massive storm.

    Mother Nature could have other tricks up her sleeve with the possibility of a solar flare-related coronal mass ejection that could cause not only outages but irreparable damage to items powered by electricity. Many countries have developed EMP (electromagnetic pulse) weapons that could perpetrate the same type of damage.

    Yet another grim possibility is that as the economy continues to degrade, more and more people simply won’t be able to afford to keep the electricity on in their homes.

    However it happens, whether it’s for 3 weeks or for the long haul, we need to learn to function differently than we do right now. We need to reduce our dependency on municipally delivered power and either create our own power or simplify to the extent that we need less power.

    Many preppers spend hundreds to even thousands of dollars on generators. Most of these are powered by gasoline, although some are fueled by propane.  These investments would certainly be handy during a short term outage but are they really worth the money? This really depends on two things: your ability to store fuel and your budget.

    1. If you live in surburbia, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to have hundreds of gallons of gasoline stored in a shed in the back yard – not only will regulations prohibit this, but there simply won’t be the space on a typical in-town property.
    2. Will purchasing a generator mean that you have to sacrifice other things in your prepping budget? Will you still have enough food to get through an extended supply emergency?  Will you be able to afford a water filtration system? What about first aid supplies, seeds, books and home defense items?

    The next consideration is the probable length of the emergency. Many people in New York and New Jersey had generators, but only enough gasoline for 2-3 days. Who can forget the long lines where people waited for hours to only be allowed to purchase 5 gallons of gasoline? Depending on the generator and what appliances are being powered, 5 gallons will supply 3-8 hours of electricity. When you do the math, in the event of a long-term emergency complete with fuel shortages, a gasoline generator is not going to be a long-term solution for most.

    Other options (I have not researched these methods because they are currently out of reach for me, so I can’t go into detail on the pros and cons) are solar power, wind power and harnessing the energy of nearby running water. Consider your environment before investing in these systems in order to purchase the one that will be most in line with the area in which you live.

    So what can you do? If you can’t afford to have an off-grid electrical system installed at your home, does this mean that you are destined for an over-crowded shelter, or worse, doomed to failure in the event of a down-grid situation?


    This just means you have to adapt your requirements.

    First, check things out at your home or retreat. Make a list of the items that you use every day that require electrical power.

    Then, look at your list and scratch off the items that are absolutely unnecessary – the television, the video game console, the microwave in the kitchen, etc. (If you have those things – we downsized a great deal before relocating here.)

    See what you have left.  Of these items, how can you supply your needs without electrical power?  Here are some examples from my family’s list and the solutions that we either have or have planned:

    • Lights:  Solar garden lights, candles, kerosene lights
    • Heat: Wood stove, small propane heater for the bathroom or kitchen for the coldest days, 2 large canisters of propane
    • Cooking: Wood stove, nutritious home-canned meals that only require reheating, small and large cast-iron dutch ovens to use on wood stove, sun oven, outdoor fireplace
    • Refrigeration: Large cooler to be packed with snow in the winter and used indoors, a plastic storage bench that is lockable to be used outdoors in the winter (the lock is to keep 4 legged critters out of it), root cellar for summer, change of eating habits in summer
    • Water:  (our well runs on an electric pump and we rent, so unfortunately we can’t modify this) 1 month supply of drinking water stored, Berkey water filtration system, buckets along with a sled or wheel barrow depending on the season, for bringing up water from the lake for flushing, filtration and cleaning.

    Anything else, we can really live without. These are the things which are vital, and the solutions are all long-term.

    Now, apply this to your own situation. Find as many solutions as possible for the issues you would face if going for weeks (or longer) without power. You must stay warm, eat, and drink. Everything else is a bonus.

    Some people like to give arguments as to why they can’t resolve these issues. They live in an apartment, they rent, they have a limited budget….the list is as long as indefinite detention. The fact is, by realizing these things are necessary and refusing to face them and find solutions for your particular situation, you are setting your family up to suffer, and possibly even die, when it could be avoided.

    I like electricity. I like the convenience of turning on a light at the switch, of putting ice cubes in my water in the summer and watching a movie after making popcorn on the stove. But will I die without those things? No. Anything electrical that is vital to life has a back-up.

    This article has been contributed by Daisy Luther. You can follow her daily tips, strategies and prepping ideas at The Organic Prepper and Girls Gone North.


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      1. Super insulated room.

        Sleeping bags.

        The dog gives off heat…farts too, but not as bad as the wife. ha

        Beprepared.com oil 100 hour oil lamp candle.  Nice.


        You get the idea.

        Just be ready and stop trying to sell everyone else on being prepared. you’re giving us all a bad name.  

        Some guy outed me…and I just played dumb… “What are you talking about?”…worked real sweet!


        • Oil lamps, wood stove (and a literal forest of trees to feed it at the end of the street), a metric ton of books… I think I can keep things warm, lit and occupied.

          ‘course, working conditions would suck given my technical profession… 🙂

          • “a metric ton of books”

            sounds like you’ve got the TP issue resolved as well

            • Question to all;

              Witch would be better

              A Glock 19  with a after SHIF stock for the small handed under trained person or a AR 15.

              Glock would be easy to carry and Glock 9mm is the (Fall Back) Weapon of the full group and Tactical 11 person team (Pro active Unit). Each weapon is : Perfect barrel and tuned trigger to the user, After SHIF stock is made perfect. User is educated in use.  (9mm is the fall back caliber to the Group because everyone can use a 9mm) (Hail Glock 17). I (Yes face book) can make the most reliable 9mm short gun possible. If I follow all I have read at the library.

              AR 15 (I like them for travel) More knock down and range.  Harder to carry for the under trained. (have not been road marching with one) More weight in ammo. Harder to maintain. (308 lover even heavier for long walks) Leave the 308 to the LURPs.

              Rules: Will be for area security while doing daily work.  Not for vehicle  or foot bug out. (I know carry the heavy you can(Ar 10)). Will have over look from OP at all times from 50 or 416. 1600 meter always. 1850 when best is in tower. (Plus Binos and Radio). Area is well know to all. Educated on 19 starting at 12 years. Before 22mag.

              All bullshit aside best area available weapon for daily carry is my ?????. We all have Gl17 and GL19 (for small hand) for SHIF

              What do you all think. Old guys that love ancient low bullet count 19111 need not comment.



              Let get serious Let educate. Nnot “Talk about our day” .  If SHIF if you can’t get thought the first week/month. Who gives a shit about learning how to “Can”

              We can talk nice but if you don’t survie the first week guess who wins. The looter that takes all of your stuff because you thought your mind was prepared.

          • OQ,

            I don’t plan on going back 200 years… I plan on going forward 100.

            But you know about the plans of mice and men… 😉

            Piper Michael

            • PM: Followed your link. The line between a madman and a genius is a very fine line, but you have managed to cross it and validate my first impression of you. Thanks!   🙂

              • Marines  “Leave no man behind”

                If you had 5 daughters (well trained) one fell to a horde of SNAPERs. Would you risk the others to bring the body back of the fifth.

                Time for the serious SHIF questions.

              • @DK,

                Ah, the voice of mystery…

                we love your ridicule the most, because you are so SURE.

                We admit one thing, 5 years ago, we would have agreed with you on pretty much everything you say/have said…

                But, until you can disprove the math… you are simply the voice of mystery.

                What you don’t get, and cannot See,

                is the power of infinity in opposition,

                because to you, God is a Mysterious Entity, not a Defined Force. The preachers tell you the Holy Spirit is IN all things, and you accept that… but, when somebody actually proves it, well then, that’s not acceptable… thus, you are caught in the trap of MYSTERY.

                Read Revelations, again, with a new eye. Read what the actual revelation is… too many look at the gloom and doom, and bypass the glorious message. Quit listening to preachers, listen to your heart.





                • PM: “We”? Is that you and the mouse in your pocket or  is it your imaginary friend that you are talking about? 🙂

                  Infinity is not in opposition to itself. Infinity is at perfect peace in Chaos, as all things (even those things which appear to be in opposition) work together for OUR good.

                  And God is not a “mystery” to me. I know, I am SURE that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I KNOW that the doctrine of vicarious atonement is true, because I have experienced it in my meditations. 

                  My certainty is made possible by my personal relationship with Him and not by what any preacher has ever said. I have been out of the body and face to face with the Living Word of God.

                  That experience is available to everyone who diligently seeks Him. Not everyone is given that experience. It comes by grace and is not earned.

                  The first experience of divine knowledge is the connection of all things in Him when they transcend this world and experience the next.

                  So the Holy Spirit is indeed, within all things. And it is in Him that I live, and move, and have my being. So do you, and so does everyone else whether they understand that or not; or whether they believe it or not.

                  He IS.

                • Ah,

                  the first thing you’ve said that made absolute sense….

                  Except, you still haven’t disproved the math…

                  You see sir, you are not the only one who has had this experience…the spirit, methinks, is working overtime to prepare mankind for the energy shift towards the dark magnetic. The only way through it, is to hang on to Him, and Love.

                  Only, it also depends on the dots we have collected in our minds, that are connected together by the spirit, the spirit genes, what science doesn’t and cannot understand.

                  What you miss, is the concept of infinity…

                  There is POSITIVE infinity, as well as NEGATIVE infinity… sir.

                  Now place them in tension, and provide the Causal tangent force, or the Invisible spirit of the Gnostics…. viola,, chaos.

                  Now you have hyper space, normal space, and sub space.

                  Hyper = spirit = God Time = The Holy Spirit = the Light=Positive infinity

                  Sub = Oblivion = No Time = The Imp of Darkness = The Dark = Negative infinity.

                  the Light = The Electric force

                  The Dark = The magnetic aether apply the God tangent force at the 1 Radian, and viola… Pi.

                  The  stories of the Ancients, proven with the math of Einstein.

                  Thus big rocks rise above little rocks, because they have a higher density of Holy Spirit RELATIVE to the little rocks.

                  Mystery Done.

                  You have explained nothing but FAITH in the MYSTERY of God, using pretty words, just like preachers. The truth of those words is subjective and relative to YOU.  Something no non believer will ever accept, simply because you have no objective proof. This is that proof, and it was a gift of spirit, not just me… I don’t consider myself that smart.

                  We, are Michael, and Piper Michael, the witness to the Light.

                  But, as long as you think I’m crazy and you can’t read other peoples writing to gain, instead of ridicule, then there is no reason to proceed with this …

                  Believe, what you wish, but we are closer than you imagine.



            • Sir, I believe you need a tissue… Your link has verbal vomit dribbling from it. How bout we give reality a whirl?

            • With no external energy inputs,how do you account for parasitic losses from friction and heat? What could it power, other than itself?

              • I love these boobs with their perpetual motion, energy from nothing fantasies. Doesn’t happen. Nothing in gives nothing out.

                • Yes, and isn’t it interesting how other boobs make all kinds of comments about what ‘is’ and have no vision for what could ‘be’.

                  They don’t ask questions, or disprove the math, or prove the hypotheses wrong, they simply ridicule… what are the 3 phases of truth?

                  There is a comment ability on the blog, for those willing to take up the peer review challenge, or for those wishing to prove me wrong or to simply ask question. This is for those with eyes that see. For the rest, ridicule away… 😉

                  All the primary theoretical foundations of electricity were laid down in the 19th century. Do you think they might have missed something?

                  No, we accept what is, the little boxes laid down by ‘experts’ that defend the status quo, not challenge the youth to find holes in their ‘truths’.


              • What is ‘the demon in the darkness’?

                What is the Parasite?

                Where does it live?

                Are the ‘laws’ of physics… complete? Then where is your ‘God particle’, for you have but a 99% proof, yet, is 100% proof of the God Tangent..

                Does God’s physics have a higher law than man?

                Every motor, every generator, built since the time of Tesla, has been built with the same basic geometry.

                I will not respond to the ridicules, even though they are justified…

                The 17th centuryISH, passive wording, is there for a reason…

                No, we do not wish ALL to see… we want you to ridicule.

                There is a reason… there is a reason…

                Those with “eyes to see”, have those eyes fixed securely in their hearts.

                Einstein was right, and what was Einstein’s greatest regret?

                IF, and I repeat, IF, my experiments are successful (the new theory says they COULD be) then, I will be even more of an enigma. The picture of the Ver 1.0 engine, is merely a proof of concept… it works, half way, but that is half way further than all you goddamned ‘experts’… with your minds in the little boxes… of men.



            • I read your first page, Piper Michael.  Alas, I must come the hard place of recognition that I am after all is said and done, what my wife of 41 years has not so secretly tried to drill into my brain: a dolt, more for sure, nevertheless, a dolt. I assume, perhaps erroneously, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you know of which, what and where of you speak (write). Therefore, by your very own quill, I have now once and for all lost all hope for my own “salvation”. Because, like the God from which you have sprung, your wisdom is hidden from this simple man. By the adroit use of the language you have left me in a state of  utter bewilderment. Once again I am left with only partially lit eyes and a space between my ears that only echoes now, my own but pure ignorance. And so I will say, as I say to my own Creator; Speak plainly, do not hide your wisdom in the heights of your knowledge. Or, lower amidst the faded interpretations and suppositions of ignorant men. Speak plainly, that i may learn. Speak plainly so i may teach others. Speak plainly…….man. We have little time for the flowery puffery of “philosophy, the art and science of Thinking”. We need to get on with the Thinking, with it’s capital T and doing so post haste. Teach sir, in simple terms and numbered line by numbered line, “the art of Thinking”.


              In my humble opinion, genius is not so much the knowledge that one possesses or even one’s ability to put it to use.  Rather it is the ability to explain it in such a way that it is not lost when one passes from this realm.  What legacy will you leave? Puzzles?


              Let the roses die, I will smell their children. Or perhaps my children will.


              • Don_in_Odessa:

                Tesla was not a musician, Pavarotti was not a scientist.

                IMO, “Of Galt And God” is about universal truth. Thought such as this, when captured through communication, provides the doorway to a path leading elsewhere. Many will not open the door. Even less will walk along the path.  And very few will make the long journey.  Is the doorway an obstacle or is it merely different than those you have seen before?

                • @Zoltanne,

                  One who gets it…

                  We all stand upon the shoulders of giants, or … midgets.

                  Choose your poison.

                  But choose wisely.


                  Universal geometry is displayed, in the universal constant of Pi.

                  Thus big rocks rise above little rocks, into layers… stars burst in 6 pointed patterns and particles and waves are One.  The unified field is that which hides the demon of chaos.

                  As long as man refuses to put God back in the calculations, he is stuck in the laws of man… but if given freely, as little children, he would not appreciate it, he would abuse it after he kills the messenger and the message.

                  Thus, the paralinguistics of the piper.


              • @Don_in_Odessa

                Alas my friend,

                it is not teaching you want, it is the desire of your soul to have MYSTERY wrapped in pretty words.

                It is not teaching you desire, it is theft.

                It is not knowledge you want, it is to play the game of gotcha.

                It is not spiritual life and living we desire, it is more stuff.

                Thus the let the curse of mammon come unto completion,

                and the culture of immorality cease,

                cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war,

                as the Knowledge of God, overcomes The Mystery.

                It is sad, is it not, that the thing that defines,

                the simplicity in the power of the rocks,

                is too difficult a concept for this generation?

                A mystery resolved in math,

                yet not a word… interesting, methinks, you are all experts in the science of words, yet little else, and are stuck in the mysteries of science and religion, thus mankind is lost in the divisions of little mind boxes, until the evil is done, for something truly wicked, this way comes.

                Then, those who have eyes to see, and God in their hearts, will see the Light. Do not worry, all the brotherhood of men are redeemed if they but want it. It is not so hard to understand Spiritual Relativity, love thy neighbor as thyself, what is so hard?


                • Ah, I see my vicious cowardly stalker troll is out doing his thumb’s down thingy already…

                  Have a nice day.


                • @ Piper Michael

                  Seems the thumbs ups have made their choice, Piper Michael.

                • Ha Ha! You speak well in the language of the flower. I simply prefer, in these short times and in these hard times….simplicity. Time is the enemy here not your pretty words. Please accept my humble appology for any offense.

            • I read your first page, Piper Michael.  Alas, I must come the hard place of recognition that I am after all is said and done, what my wife of 41 years has not so secretly tried to drill into my brain: a dolt, more for sure, nevertheless, a dolt. I assume, perhaps erroneously, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you know of which, what and where of you speak (write). Therefore, by your very own quill, I have now once and for all lost all hope for my own “salvation”. Because, like the God from which you have sprung, your wisdom is hidden from this simple man. By the adroit use of the language you have left me in a state of  utter bewilderment. Once again I am left with only partially lit eyes and a space between my ears that only echoes now, my own but pure ignorance. And so I will say, as I say to my own Creator; Speak plainly, do not hide your wisdom in the heights of your knowledge. Or, lower amidst the faded interpretations and suppositions of ignorant men. Speak plainly, that i may learn. Speak plainly so i may teach others. Speak plainly…….man. We have little time for the flowery puffery of “philosophy, the art and science of Thinking”. We need to get on with the Thinking, with it’s capital T and doing so post haste. Teach sir, in simple terms and numbered line by numbered line, “the art of Thinking”.


              In my humble opinion, genius is not so much the knowledge that one possesses or even one’s ability to put it to use.  Rather it is the ability to explain it in such a way that it is not lost when one passes from this realm.  What legacy will you leave? Puzzles?


              Let the roses die, I will smell their children. Or perhaps my children will.


              • @ D-I-O,

                    Commendable ‘Command’ of the language, indeed….’tip O’ the hat’ here.

              • It will not be left to such as thee… my friend.

                For the spirit is clear, do not cast pearls before swine… but it must be given to all… yet it is only for those with eyes that see, for only they will see with their hearts, and hear the song with their eyes.

                Again, pretty words are nothing but words… to be used for or against knowledge. Mystery is a doubled edged sword, those with their hearts in mammon, cannot see.

                If you have the wisdom, disprove the math, which is the language of the Universe, or go away, your philosophical prattling sounds too much like the Church Fathers of Rome. Ah… I see.. yes, of course…



          • love your work.

            Oil lamps galore…www.lanternnet.com  W.T kirkman #2 cold blast lanterns a case of 12 delivered to my home …$301.00  make outstanding gifts to stupid people who may need to be woke up a bit.  they often reply,” I can use this the next time the power goes out.”  I smile…it’s a start.  can use lamp oil or #1 kero…kero is a bit smelly but in an extreme emergency, who cares about smell.

            emergency well pumps…sponsor of this site  http://www.flojak.com  will purchase one this week.  Fits in with your existing electric pump, can be stored in your garage until needed and put together by a couple of people in less than an hour.  very reasonably priced.

            “don’t go down without one helluva fight.”

          • That is strange that nobody mentioned diesel fuel and diesel generators.There are many advantages on this solution:1. Diesel fuel can be stored for years2. Diesel fuel is not so dangerous as gasoline or propane.3. You can make biodiesel by yourself at home.4. Diesel engines have less parts, so they are more reliable.5. Diesel can be used to in the burner to heat your home. 

            • I dunno… a generator really doesn’t give me much that my crank-powered radio and other preps don’t already provide. 


              Sure, I could watch TV (satellite), but the phone, Internet, and other bits would still be down, and in a SHTF situation, the noise would be a bad advertisement (yes I know you can muffle it down by a lot, but it’s still going to audibly stick out in a completely silent neighborhood…)

              This is just my personal opinion, though. There are many uses that a generator has for short-term outages, and it wouldn’t be too out-of-place in the preps.

              • What about off-grid solar panels? Current offers  is about $1+ per Watt.

                • It isn’t too complicated to make your own with materials and even the tech needed online. I have done this and use the panels with a grid tie inverter . If the juice goes down, I also have batteries and a controller to switch to off grid operation.

                • Solar Generators….jaspak.com

            • 1 yes, but you have to use the right additives or it turns scummy and wont work,

              2 correct,

              3 but you have to have the ingrediants, and it would be easier to ultra filter vegetabe oil and run the engine on that after starting on diesel,

              4 yep, until they break down. You still need a supply of filters though and you need to change the filters regulalrly to get reliability

              5 and you can burn oil, which costs less.


            • Having a met a redneck in my area who makes biodiesel in his barn, I’m mighty skeptical of bioD as a SHTF fuel.   For one thing, the heat it takes to make it would happily run a steam powered generator for quite some time.  And the process needs a lot of alcohol, which is either bought in or, in this guy’s case, distilled from corn,  (yep, he’s a bootlegger, too).   Making corn squeezin’s also needs a lot fuel, and a feedstock of grain, (copious amounts 0f grain), which isn’t likely to be a viable source under SHTF conditions.    Lastly, diesels are fine in warm weather, but can be impossible to start when it’s cold.  I dare you to ask me how I know that.)   Diesel fuel “gels” when it’s cold, so it flows with all the alacrity of molasses.   If diesel fuel it gets water in it, the pumps and injectors can be destroyed by rust in a very short time.    Looking back at the big stationary engines that were so common in my area of the Appalachian oil fields in the pre-electricity period, (19th century to 1940), you will not find even one that ran on diesel.   Gasoline or natural gas, but never diesel.   I reckon there’s a reason. . . . .  

              • Mac, when will be  get a “edit” facility here?

                • my hope is this feature will be available when user id’s are activated. I will see about a temporary solution that identifies users by ip/session for now.

                  Thanks for the recommendation!


                  • Quick Update: It seems that our new commenting updates completed in the last couple weeks make it difficult for the inline ‘edits’ to take place at this time… I tried a couple plugin updates with no luck. This one is going to have to be on the feature list for the next update (which should be soon if all goes well).

                    Thanks for your patience.


                • @ Mac,

                      T’anks for the update Mac…we’re all waiting with ‘baited’ breath for what comes….. 🙂

                • Old Coach Are you afraid to leave your first though out for reveiw. First impressions are the usally the best.

              • We won’t be using a generator as the noise is just too likely to attract zombies in our current location, & can be heard for miles when we relocate.  I’ve decided that as we don’t have the facilities to store much fuel the risks of scavanging more are just too great. I’ll not die for the sake of foolish risks.

                As a descendant of Richard Trevivick I’ve always had a fascination for steam engines & coal.  Past technologies may be easier to recreate than anything requiring copious “chips”.  Bio-diesal is not the only option.

                If in the right location coal scraps can be scavanged & obtained at long closed surface pits as there’s a massive difference between the amount needed for one or two households, and that needed for commercial viability.  Peat is another source of heat – Ireland still has lots of properties heated by peat.  Dried seaweed was used by the poor in times past as a source of both food and fuel. Animal dung was dried for fuel by the Saxons. Dung is still used in parts of the 3rd world to great effect as fuel for heat and cooking. Any of these fuel alternatives sound a better option to me than getting myself killed scavanging the last available petro-fuels over the course of a long emergency.  

                It’s worth taking a look at old maps for your area & thinking of historical fuels used in your current location. Wood is not the only accessible source of local fuel, though I accept the reasons for it’s popularity amongst many preppers. It’s going to require lots of ongoing creativity and imagination to survive post SHTF.  

                Few horses in the UK are trained now to pull a cart or buggy. Yet horse power may the best transport solution in a long emergency.

                I don’t often like to recomend specific brands but we’ve been so impressed with our powerbee solar fairy lights that we’ll be investing in several other products in this range in the post Xmas sales.  (5 years and still going strong on my staircase). Powerbee do a range of lights for sheds, outbuildings etc that can easily be adapted for internal household use.  I get another couple of dymano/solar torches lanterns every year in the camping gear sales and my mother kept her Gran’s old oil lanterns when she passed. Head torches will be handy for those who want to work with their hands in the winter evenings, and these are now availbale in solar/dynamo options.

                 I have made/aquired proper black out blinds/curtains for all our windows. Black out material can be used as a liner for “regular” curtains, and is pretty inexpensive. Baby stores often sell ready made blackout blinds for those who cannot sew. We want light – mostly for retaining sanity in winter, but not at the expense of inviting half the neighbourbood to come and overpower us.

                I’m not one for high-tec security, believing that it’s too easy to disable most systems without your being aware of it. I prefer to rely on more old fashioned methods.

                For security we have a dog. I’m intending to get another once we’ve relocated as our whippet is primarily a silent poacher (capable of catching her own food in time honoured UK peasant tradition) rather than a protection dog.  All dogs should be trained to never accept food from anyone but their owner/s. If your dog cannot be trained this way it will be poisoned by the first wrongun that comes along.

                For our current location the dog needs to alert us to trouble silently – for others a noisy Jack Russell may be the perfect low maintenance alarm.  Jack Russells are fearless ratters, very local and fierce but do not require lots of stored food like the large breeds.  The English and staffordshire terriers are medium sized breeds that may also be an alternative to the large protection breeds that appeal to many preppers. Many are concerned  responsibility of feeding a v. large dog long term, but having owned a very useful chihuahua  I thought it was worth throwing out that lower maintenance breeds can and do have a purpose if properly trained.

                Over his 18 years that lil Chi stopped a burglary, alerted me to my sisters appendicitis, prevented my being mugged and warned me of various people I met being not as “decent” as they first appeared so many times I lost count.  This was incredibly important as I haven’t always lived  in the “nicest” of areas, and smarmy conmen are an issue for all city dwellers even now.  If the dog doesn’t like your daughters date – feel free to kick him to the curb lol! When it comes to “street smarts” flashy methods are not as effective as smart ones to keep you safe.

                A smaller breed is worth considering for city dwellers/ the elderly/those unsure of “controlling” a giant breed. We read too much on preppers forums of the expensively trained “protection dogs” and not everyone has the funds/time for one of these.  I want people to think of alternatives that suit their personal situation.

                My Great Grandmother kept a small flock of geese on her farm instead of large dogs for protection. NOONE could get onto her land (only a couple of acres) without her say so. She also had a tiny heinz57 terrier in her old age I remember. She died at 98 without having to deal with the constant fear of dodgy visitors that haunts so many old folks in these times. Not many can overcome an attack from the air and the ground at once. Geese are VERY spiteful  & loyal protectors that double up as a food source. Her Geese were pretty self-sufficient in terms of food. The only thing I will say is that their mess in the yard was revolting. I hated caught as  naughty by her as a kid, as my punishment would be to go clean up after them and put the mess on the compost.

                Don’t throw out your old fridge or freezer. (Damned planned product obscelence mean many modern models only last 5-10 years nowadays). These make great makeshift faraday cages & are large enough to store laptops/solar charging units/radio equipment/torches etc).  An old freezer in the garage attracts no attention OPSEC wise.

                Have several ways to make fire. Have several ways to purify water. You need a lot of redundancy in your preps for making fire and cleaning water.

                In Bangaldesh they discovered that water filtered through 5 layers of sari fabric reduced village outbreaks of cholera by 80%. We intend to filter first through my son’s old baby muslins before putting river water into the main Berkey – in order to preserve the life of our main filter units.  Iodine/bleach/milton/water purification tablets take little space.

                Collect non-electric tools/sewing machines/laundry solutions NOW at thrift stores and garage sales. while you still can.

            • My sister never lost power in NJ because her generator ran on natural gas. You can also have a generator that runs on either gas,propane,or natural gas.

            • Noise. Too darn loud.

            • I agree about diesel generators we used to use diesel generators to power our ranch wells. We used Yamar diesels they had no starter just a big flywheel and a compression releas. We would just fill them with diesel get the flywheel spinning release the compression button and they would fire up and we would let them run untill they would run out of fuel, they would pump hundreds of gallons of water with just a couple gallons of diesel. They did eventually wear out and we replaced them with miller bobcats which werent half as good.

          • Slightly off-topic: Self-Reliance Network (on Facebook) has graciously hosted a copy of the book on docs.com for those who are allergic to Google:


            • Why the thumbs down for OQ post?

              This is a FREE book chock full of advice?

              I sometimes despair, I really do.


              • Lonelonmum,

                We have a group of people who stalk people, they are entirely personal or ideological, it only takes one post to get on their ‘sh** list’.

                I wish, in a way… we all had to have UserId registered, and you could click to see who they were…

                so we could return the favor… 😉

                (some posts, like a mere ‘thank you’ to Mac, getting a thumbs down? Whoda thunk it….)


        • Great article Daisy! 

          Making priorities.  You sum it up nicely and give sound advice.  🙂

          KY Mom

        • How about pretty much no elecricity at all? Our solar system is only big enough to run a few lights and charge the laptops. I can do laundry with a laundry plunger or a washboard. Summer time refridgeration? A zeer. You can find out how to make one on the net. I did a test one and it worked. Will build one for real come spring and use it. 28 acres of woods means woodstoves, however in a pinch I have some hobo stoves lying around. If the electric goes out, I may not even notice! I have a blog at http://freesoulsurvivalist.wordpress.com where I tell about my experiences. I have lived off grid for 12 nonconsecutive years (2 years I lived in town, after 10 off grid, then moved back home 2 years ago) and I know how to live off grid quite comfortably with little to no electric at all. Its not as hard as it looks 🙂

        • So….repeat the obvious……everyone here (and I am in Missouri and went through both the ice storm and the F5 tornado in Joplin)…….thank you for repeating for those unaware of what needs to be on hand….we here in MO know what and how to prepare for the unexpected and unwanted in regards to nature……and other situations should they arise….have food, have water, have ammo, have a community, have faith in the Nation in which I was born and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights…..and have Faith in my fellow Citizens and in My God……may God Bless this Republic and all of the folks out there who will rebuild ……..


        • What will I do when the lights go out?

          As far as my neighbors go, I will be sitting in the dark just like them. I will have the ability to black out all windows and have enough fuel to cook light meals indoors for a few months.  Plenty of oil lamps, candles, matches and solar outdoor lighting that can be brought indoors.  I have one neighbor that I trust completely who will be prepared as well.

        • thanks..your post reminded me to get the sleeping bags that got deleted from my ‘to get’ list long ago.

          0 degrees bags..another step toward survival and I hope I NEVER have to use them. 

        • Homemade sterno;  Tunafish our catfood cans , cut corrugated cardboard to size, roll up into cans tight, heat up in a pan on stove gulf wax or canning wax. Pour slowly into cardboard in can, let it soak in, continue until it fills. This is cheap and easy, you can make many. You can cook or heat with these for a long time. BE CAREFUL gulf wax is FLAMMABLE!!!

        • Here is what I have for my family…..sure , a lot of people have a lot to say about this unit and me, but I know what MY family will be using……  Completely silent, NO FUEL EVER, provides PLENTY of survival power.

          Now who will be the first moron to tell me that you can’t run your welder with this unit…..If you don’t want the unit….DON’T BUY ONE…..you always have fire….good luck


      2. Well, since I’m basically off the grid, not much will change other than our place will stick out like a sore thumb.


        Come to think of it. we’ll probably not leave “too” many lights on at night.

        • @European American


          Buy cans of black spray paint and carefully mask off your windows, preferrably on the southern side of the house. Spray until you cant see in or out. You would be surprised the amount of heat this produces. It can also easily be removed with a razor blade.

          I did this to the glass door at my shop and on days where it was in the 40’s the furnace never even fired up in the afternoon. It would also keep your lighted room from being seen in the neighborhood. From the outside it just looks like tinted glass.   

          • What about using roofing paper or black disposable plastic tablecloths???

            I meant for privacy and blocking light–not heating.

            I’d also like to add that TSC had $3 led lights with magnets and hooks for displaying and I bought about 10.

            Yep–they use 3 AAA batteries that come in the light(Lowe’s had 30 batteries for $4), but I don’t need to worry about matches, a flame, turning one over, and smoke.  🙂  for a while.

          • damn good idea-will do asap.

      3. Start up the propane gen set off of the dual LARGE bomb and selct ext pwr on transfer box.

      4. Is this the same Daisy as comments here all the time?

        • Yes.  If you click on Daisy’s name in one of her comments, you can visit her prepper blog.  She posts interesting information. 

          • Thanks, but no.

            After reading some of her comments, it’s clear she’s an angry and vindictive little person.  Not my type of Canuck!

            • @ Anon,

                   ‘W-Whaaatttt? Yo Brother, you might want to think about going back on your meds or somesuch…CLEARLY you are ‘mistaken’ here…. 🙁 Yeah, that’s MY thumbs-down.

              • FWIW, I don’t even ackowledge cowards…which is what posing behind an ‘Anon’ login/post is….

                    ….if you have a ‘beef’, ‘Man-up’….I’ll be here….waiting. 🙂

                • What are you doing. Post a real name and email.

            • If this is who I believe it is, I have to admit, the comment is somewhat deserved.  We engaged in a rather heated discussion a while back and I said some things that were not very nice and personal rather than on-topic.

              I hope, Mr. Anon, that you saw my apology for my intemperate words during that discussion regarding hungry children.  I don’t expect it to change your opinion, but I do want you to know that I’m regretful that I spoke to you that way.

              ~ D


              • Hi Daisy,

                   JOG here, The foregoing seems ‘civil’ enough…have I jumped the gun here….reflexively ‘acted in haste’ as it were?

                   I have a problem – usually – letting friends be abused…do I need to ‘back off’ here?…explicitly.

                • J1G ~

                  Hi!  I always appreciate a friend having my back.  

                  I was mulling over this comment last night, though, and believe it may be from someone I was admittedly rude to during a disagreement regarding a subject that is dear to my heart.  And if that’s the case, I just wanted to put forth the fact that the criticism is deserved. 

                  Then again, it could just be some random Anonymous that wanted to be negative – it’s hard to say.  

                  If it’s a case of the first, though, I wanted to be sure the person saw my apology.

                  Thank you so much – you are such a gentleman!

                  ~ D

              • @Daisy,

                We all have our hot buttons my dear.

                What defines our character is our response to our intemperate words and actions.

                You have shown your  true character with your regret and an apology, Anon, by holding a grudge, displays not only his character but his cowardice in his anonymous id.

                I did not catch the thread, and have no need.


                We all live in glass houses, be careful with where you throw rocks, they have a tendency to be like boomerangs.


      5. Daisy, thank you for the article.  I’ve been through numerous power outages after hurricanes and other storms when I lived in Florida.  I survived with canned goods heated up on a Coleman stove, Flashlights with spare batteries, candles, battery-powered radio, etc. and came out smelling like a rose every time.   I’ve been considering a Berkey for water filtration;  only have a Katadyn with extra filters for now.   I’d like to hear your feedback on the Berkey.   Braveheart

        • I learned of the Berkley while vacationing in Africa.  I saw raw street sewage water go in it and drinkable good water come out. We lived off it for a while. I still use them the black filter are the best but nothing wrong with the white. I also use Berkley’s bottle filters. When in the wood I only Carry one extra bottle with me. Just in case.

          Strain the water it will save alot of maint on the filters.  

          Except for the Lifesaver Can I have never use anything better for large amounts of water. At one place I stay when in town I even have a little Berkley. Seattle water sucks.

        • I meant Survive its Death. Can’t get the Facebook to erase from this page and I have erased everything.  Must be possessed.

        • http://globalcodeguild.com/Store/tabid/104/Default.aspx

          I have one…love it.

          Get the one with four filter cones if you have a family to transfer plenty water.

          Tip:  We use the sink hand sprayer to fill it up.   

          Worth the money.

          My backup plan..  Use the sump water if all else fails, pass through the berkey and hit it with some chorine for good measure…..let sit.

          Many on this site do not put water at the top of their list.

          Very important!!!

          • water is life-critical and should be 1 of the top 3 on every list along with shelter and food – you choose the order…  i have at least 3 sources for potable water and always working on more…  you’d be surprised what you can do with a brita filter, some pvc pipe sections and a bushing…   a little water filter for  bartering/trade could go a long way…

          • to: Be Informed…

            Per your knowledge and experience of ‘quakes’, I have a question.

            Let’s assume one lives 300-400 miles due east from a huge fault (the New Madrid, for example) & the underlying rock strata is dense granite covered with clay earth…& have a +150ft well.

            What are the chances that a major rupture of the New Madrid would  “crack”  the granite & cause a massive reduction of the water-table level in locales significantly removed from the general epicenter? I am at the foothills of the Blue Ridge range.

            I have seen where you have alluded to the phenomenon of…the denser the underlying rock strata…the greater the  ‘amplification effect’  of a given quake in that area.

            Thus, if water-table levels sink or drain after such an episode…those having a well may not be able to access existing sub-surface water. Am I correct to assume that such an outcome is possible…or likely?

            Thanks beforehand for your reply.

            • @ Anton Hackl.

              Greetings from Oconee County SC, that is a great question that I would like to see BI’s answer also. I’ve been wondering if I could relay on our well after the fact also.





              • hillbilly                                       oconee ,,,union


                • Hillbilly & Snake Eater,

                  Saluda County, SC

                • @ Snake

                  Morning neighbor.

                  Were here in the Golden corner. With a good breeze I might be able to spit on Duke’s unit #3




                • @ Carolina Girl

                  Evening to a southern cousin. : )

                  Nice to know that there are several locals around.

                  Look forward to what you have to add to the site.

                  I’m still looking… I’m not a pro like Snake or Son of  Sam.

                  Y’all have a great evening.






          • All about water, compare Berkey to AquaRain

            About 2/3 of the way down in the article, comparison of the Berkey and AquaRain.


            • hillbilly

              not a pro just make a few comments now and then,,for a long time i thought everyone in here was a computer generated beings,,,if you get over my way let me know ahead of time and coffee at an easy place to find,,,


              • Snake,


                Would love to go to the G&K show on the 15 this month. But… because of other commitments it will have to be the next round. When Mac gets the IM thing going, I’d enjoy learning more. Have a great evening.





        • get a Berkey filter.  it is beyond being worth every penny of the cost.

          fantastic taste in the water.

          • @daveyjones….I just tried ordering one off Amazon, and got a message that they could not ship to my address in Canada??   Anyone else from Canada have that problem?? 

            @Daisy, I checked out your blog a couple days ago, tried to post my “LONG” response to you , hit the wrong button, and lost the whole thing!!  ):    Was soooo  impressed!!  take care all….CC.

          • If the cost of a Berkey is prohibitive, check out “Monolithic Water Filters” and build your own for 50 bucks.

        • Braveheart; when you get your Berkey, many remind you to get extra filters and forget to remind you to get extra spigots.

          I had to order from Berkey online because the spigots weren’t at any stores I searched.  Good luck..jayjay


      6. Related, maybe.   Will our  feral gov’t  go after kerosene lamps, now?  generators?


        From Science Daily site

        “Kerosene Lamps Identified as Big Source of Black Carbon”


        ‘”There are no magic bullets that will solve all of our greenhouse gas problems, but replacing kerosene lamps is low-hanging fruit, and we don’t have many examples of that in the climate world,” said study co-author Kirk Smith, professor at UC Berkeley’s School of Public Health and director of the Global Health and Environment Program. “There are many inexpensive, cleaner alternatives to kerosene lamps that are available now, and few if any barriers to switching to them.”



        • Feral Government!   I like that ! 

          Kerosene lamps are a source of carbon black?  They’re just now figuring that out?   

          Actually, that article pointed out that virtually 100% of that carbon is being emitted in the Thurd Whirled.   I doubt that even our EPA carnivores will bother us here.  



        • I don’t know about UC Berkley, but I always use a kerosene lamp indoors.  It doesn’t matter to the rest of the world how much soot it puts out, because it collects on the lampshade and the ceiling.  None goes into the atmosphere.

      7. Fantastic article.  Well-intentioned and thoughtful.

        One thing I would like to add is the likelihood of a false flag operation by the thugs of that criminal organization called “government” in order to arrogate more power and control.

        Gulf of Tonkin, USS Maine, 9/11, Iraq WMDs, Fort Sumter, the Mexican incurstions – American history is rife with examples of false flag operations for the sake of the aggrandizement of the warfare-welfare United State (in the singular).

        The Criminal Monsters will find any excuse to WRECK & DESTROY your life.

        Even the erstwhile Soviets understand the need to Destroy Collectivism.

        Alphabet soup bureaucrats and agencies, along with their betray-us groupie whores, are dedicated to the idea of destroying any thoughtful, sovereign individuals for the sake of their criminal power.  They are calling it thoughtcrime.  Thanks to Mac, we can fight that potential calamity every time on SHTFplan!

        If you don’t believe me, just read what this multimillionaire has to say about it!  He says being an American today is like being a Jew in Nazi Germany! 

        Destroy collectivism in all forms before we destroy ourselves!



        • I can’t envision TPTB killing the grid.   They need it to keep stripping us of our assets.    

          A real nutcase movement might try it – y’know, like the musloids? 

          Just started a 1988 archaeology book – “The Collapse of Complex Societies”, Joseph A. Tainter, Canbridge University Press.  Expensive but worth it.  

          In the first few pages it confirms that the Euphrates civilization, which was admittedly not at it’s best in 700AD, virtually disappeared after the Islamic invaders hit it.  By 850 AD the land supported only a few nomads.    Same was true of much of the North African coast.  Thank you Mohammed. 


        • I would advise anyone who can still think clearly,TO take a sober look at america and realize ITS ABOUT TO FALL, the russians are at the gate,the chinese are at the gate,NATO is planning to attack and the anti-christ is in control of america….THE whole world is watching and holding their breath,america is living in a dream world,where everything ends well,OBAMA and CLINTON have PLACED everything and everyone as colleral for loans to the banks, AND THERE COMING FOR THERE MONEY,YOU AMERICANS had better wakeup and you better do it FAST,you are in severe DANGER of losing EVERYTHING,including YOUR LIFE, GET ready,GET ready…food ,water,as much ammo as you can buy,make no mistake about they’er coming,your out of time GET READY……………….

          •  um, no it is not.

            i mean, yes; the US may fall from its own debt; but china has built itself up on just as much of its own debt as the US has and both china and russia have real problems with that they dont have enough young chinese and young russians to support their old; its every worse than europe.

            the only way china and russia can take down the US is to walk across our porous borders with nukes and anyone can do that and has been able to do that if they wanted for a long time.

            sorry, china and russia have the same problems the US does; the whole world is going to go thru some tough times. what the US looks like in 25 years will be all on the US.

            • Lena, I read a long time ago–China has a serious problem.

              Their one child regulation, and most wanting boys, aborting the baby girls, has come back to haunt them.


          • AZ: Obama is NOT the antichrist. The antichrist is European. While he is alive and lurking in the background, he is not American. He is about 50 years old and the son of a high ranking (captain or admiral) naval officer of a foreign power who was attached to NATO and involved in military planning; thus his knowledge of war gaming since a child and connections to the world elite.

            His mother is/was a very beautiful woman from a wealthy family (PTB/elites) who are/were satanists. He was well educated at the best schools in Europe in history, philosophy, and economics. He is good looking , dark haired, and charming. The charm will become charisma as he steps upon the world stage. Think JFK jr only much more intelligent, and you can see it in his eyes.

            He is presently in the background in Europe but will emerge when events come together in time. Not yet. But not far away either.

            Keep prepping and try not to panic. The sky is not falling. Sober up!

            • The Muslims will be in control of most of Europe within five years.

            • Antichrist=Satan himself,his time is short,none other than satan himself.He will perform and mirror Christ.

          • Yup…..I read all the “informative” posts of what to buy and what to have…..if you have a source of water, wood, and food…..you are there….if you use the sense you were given you would understand that all the money “preppy” stuff you buy will not help you to survive if you are lacking in the very basic of common sense…..Do you merely wish to survive? or do you wish to be part of the rebuilding?  If you are older, share your knowledge now….if you are young, LISTEN and learn from those who have been there and know of what they speak…..an older person may not know everything regarding the internet or cell phones, but the knowledge they have of how to “do things” without technology, will keep this Nation alive……

          • Most likely what you say is true. The sick part is that the Stupid party has set themselves up to take the blame. I expect whites in general and white men in particular will become the fall guys for all that goes wrong. Wonder if they will make us wear five pointed stars.

      8. For the most part my preps have been based around not having electricity. The challenges: keeping food in the summer and pump doesn’t work without electric.

        When I was getting ready for Sandy, I filled up ten five-gallon buckets and stacked them in the corner. I still haven’t emptied them. They were mainly for flushing, and washing. I usually have about two to three months of purified water on hand. One thing I keep telling people to keep in mind, your water heater is a forty to fifty gallon reservoir. Flush it out at least once a year and not only will it last longer, but you’ll have cleaner water.

        My house has a very efficient wood stove and I will never live anywhere without one. I’ve only used my furnace a half dozen times so far this year and it was just to get the chill out of the house on the few times after I was gone for a few days. Every weekend I’ve been practicing how to cook with cast iron.

        For lights, oil lamps are great, just learn how to use them and have plenty of oil. I’m trying to learn how to make oil from natural resources. They sell wicks by the roll.

        Learn a musical instrument like an acoustic guitar or harmonica or some other woodwind, brass or stringed instrument. It will go a long way for entertainment.

        • I find there is nothing better than solar outdoor lights for providing light indoors at night. Store up some 2 liter bottles, add sand or dirt for weight. Buy the kind that have circular stems that fit the opening of the bottles. Leave them out during the day and slide them in the bottles and place around the house. Easy 8 hours of usable light; with no fuel.

          • The biggest problem with those solar outdoor lights is the majority of them have rechargable batteries with a shelf life of maybe 3 years, used or not.  The cheap ones are good for a 18 months to 2 years and that’s assuming you have new production. 

            Point of this is just a recommendation to make sure you pick up replacement batteries every two to three years.

        • ” Every weekend I’ve been practicing how to cook with cast iron. “I love my cast iron pans! I bought them some years back for festival camping, and amazingly, they’ve become a regular fixture on my stove. I have the set that is a frying pan and a sauce pan that locks into each other (the frying pan acts as a lid). Wonderful! I use them all the time for breakfast and quesadillas (our cheap, fast, go-to dinner sided with a jar of salsa and diced veggies), and because of the way it’s made, yes, it’s also a dutch oven and has done a great job with small roasts and such. Once you get a good seasoning (don’t trust “pre-seasoned”), it works just as good as Teflon but without ever having to worry about scratching off the coating. When you make bacon, save that fat and store it in the back of the fridge. Use it instead of butter for pancakes; I guarantee they’ll be the best pancakes you’ve ever had – even on a regular stove burner! And hey, cast iron does add a smidge of iron to your diet as well. Just remember to avoid acidy foods, like tomato sauce and lemon juice; it will leech too much iron into your food and give it a mineraly taste. For that stuff, use your stainless steel pans.

          • lori

            another use for the grease i use it for popping pop corn in my cast iron pot believe it or not i add salt and pepper its out of this world


      9. I’m not going to worry about a power outage.  Solar is in place, a generator with two fuel options, lots of wood handy, and plenty to get by.  I only worry about it not coming back online…permanently.

      10. Almost off-grid already, I bugged out three years ago.  Wood heat requires no erectricity.  Solar panels and batteries to drive an old APC uninterruptable power supply for computer and satellite link, (batteries are cast-off car batteries that still have life left in them).   LED lighting if lighting is needed.     Generator needed only to run the well pump, but there’s 450 gallons of stored water that’s accessible without it, so I need run the well pump only once every two weeks or so to fill the tank.  Have nearly 500 gallons of gas (in steel farm tanks) for the genny.  Collect rainwater for sanitation.    My biggest problem, like E.A., will be OPSEC.  

        A real good sleeping bag is a must if you have no heat.  I’ve slept warm in mine (in a camper-van) at subzero temps time and again.    Once I had to stay put for three days, (snow in Wyoming halted I-80 at Rock Springs) and never once felt cold. 

        Everybody, even city dwellers, should have a small rocket stove, and a micro-wok.  ( The wok evolved because it uses very little fuel.)  Amazing how little wood, and scrappy stuff at that, will heat water or cook food with that combination.  

        • I grew up north of rock springs. Really fun place in the wintertime.

          Live north east of there today. If the power goes out I probably wont even notice it until I get bored and drive into town.

        • Great information, Old Coach. 

          Many underestimate the importance of a Stanley-Aladdin..save that heated food- or better yet, water- in one, and you saved energy reheating both.

          I tested boiled water and it stayed boiling hot almost 24 hours..:-)

      11. What will I do when the lights go out? Get kinky by candlelight, using a “Crisco” candle. Try it!!!!

        I mean the candle!!!

        • I just KNEW you had a wild side, D.K.

        • BTW if you have a normal well with a 4″ casing, Lehman’s sells a long skinny bucket that can be used with a rope to get water out of it.   You have to pull up the well pump and piping to use it, but in a long term situation it would be invaluable.  

          • That is my plan as well Old Coach. We use Aqua Bailers for sampling groundwater monitoring wells. I think the 3.5 inch diameter bailers will hold 5 liters (1.25 gallons), and fit fine down a 4 inch cased water well. They also make smaller versions to fit down 2 inch wells that hold approximately 1 liter. They are fairly expensive, but work nicely.

            Just be sure to bail the well slowly to reduce your chances of introducing sediment that will need to be pre-filtered  to extend the life of your Katadyn, Berkey, etc.

            For long term, especially on the 3.5 inch bailers (10 pounds full of water) insert 2-3 sheet metal screws into the top portion of the polyethylene bailers, as the top portion is plastic fused to the body of the bailer. They are known to “pop off” after extended use, and are nearly impossible to extract from the well unless you have the right fishing tools.

            • hello i have a very nice well and also live on a river- chances are i can use the river water for xtreme emergencies by boiling water over a wood campfire. but i’d like to to have a hand pump on the premises for first line of restoration. do you know where i can find info on USING those? i have found a pump locally and need to know what to have on hand and how to install it on top of the current sop in place. i have a 50 gallon tank above the well. thanks!

              • ja- I think the last one I installed was made by a company called Bison pumps. It was a nice unit, stainless steel-self priming unit. It will fit on your existing well casing and not interfere with the in place submersible pump.

                Normally the pumps just use 1/2 inch pvc as the drop/suction tube. You will need to measure your static water level in the well to determine if you need a shallow or deep well hand pump.

                You might check out Flojak too. They may have some instructions or videos on their website.


        • Rule 34, dude. Rule 34…


          (Google it.)

        • @ FK,

              Whew, am I glad you ‘qualified’ that statement!

                I almost thought we were heading into ‘gator’ territory here again …. 🙂

        • Just what do you do with the candle, Bill. Hillary wants to know.

      12. Just picked up 3 12v 110 amph AGM batteries last weekend, got a converter and solar panels on craiglist that i need to call and obtain. All i really want to do is power two or three halogen lights at night with enough power to charge the computer (for all the ebooks I have on self reliance) and hopefully a refridgerator ( ultimate goal). After that there is nothing else i need electricity for. Much like “arco” said above I am prepping for no electric power. The little that I have, that I produce is a bonus!

        • Why halogen? They are power hogs and produce mostly heat. You will need a huge battery and solar panel array source to keep them lit. Better re think your plan and go LEDs..

        • “hopefully a refridgerator”

          “Hope” is not a plan.

          Do some arithmetic.

          My refridgerators draw 6 amps each. That is approx. 720 watts at 120VAC.

          “rough” estimate for 12vdc power is “multiply by 10”. So, 7,200 watts (or 60 amps) at 12vdc. (this is ROUGH, not exact, depends on efficiency of inverter and a bunch of other things).

          (3) 110AH batteries: amphour rating is based on 20-hour discharge. You might think that could provide 110 amps for 1 hour. You’d be wrong. Actually, the AH rating is based on taking 20 hours to discharge; so you can draw 5.5 amps from the battery per hour over 20 hours. Three of those batteries can then provide a continuous 16.5 amps at 12vdc for 20 hours. No chance in hell of running a fridge from an inverter.

          Now you need to recharge those batteries. How long do you have sun? let’s say it’s 10 hours per day; it’s not, but that will make the “back of the envelope” math easy. If you suck out 330 amps, you have to replace that much. You have 10 hours to do it. That means 33 amps coming out of your PV panels, or (more or less) 400 watts.

          Realistically, the fridge doesn’t run 24/7. More typical would be about a total of 8 hours in a 24-hour period. So your 24-hour consumption would only be (8hrs * 6amps) 48 amps over the course of a day; rough conversion to 12VDC is 480 amps. 10-hour recharge time means you need to generate 48 amps per hour, so your PV panels need to produce nearly 600 watts.

          “Hope” is a very poor substitute for a plan.

      13. This is a nice article.  You should see some of these individuals that have not prepared for anything react when the electricity goes out because of a thunderstorm.  You would think that someone has nearby candles, a working flashlight, something to give them light just so they are not crashing around and tipping over themselves and objects in the road.  These people, most of the population have difficulty lasting ONE night, much less anything longer. 

        It is kind of light the old trick question of which you are stuck in a mountain cabin, you have a fireplace, a wood stove, a lantern, a few candles, and only one match.  Which one do you light first?  The MATCH.  Most non-preppers don’t even have the match, forget about anything else.  The point of this is that there has to be a starting point when a disaster strikes and the non-prepper doesn’t even have the most basic of survival items to even get started, and not fall over everything in their pathway. 

        Darkness is frightening and hits a true nerve when you cannot get light.  Blackouts prove this as people panic and total irrational actions begin to surface even in the most steadfast person.  Yet to my personal disbelief at garage sales, candles are going for a nickel or a dime each.  Candles provide immediate light and a way of getting a person orientatated and balanced on what to do next.  Flashlights are nice, but still dependent on the battery light and that the bulb has not been dropped or something and is functioning.  Candles will work as long as you are not flooded or something like a lot of wind.  There is always hurricane lanterns also that are easy to light.

        There really is more panic without light than life without electricity, as most of the people hit by Sandy can tell you about.  One severe problem of sudden loss of electricity is the sudden loss of communications.  Everyone should have a radio, preferably a shortwave, put away in a faraday cage to protect it from EMP, and extra batteries, at least a couple of packages.  Cheaper little radios go for anywhere between $10-$20, and many can be found at garage sales for $1-$2.  The more information you can get, the safer you are going to be and the better you are going to feel. 

        Refrigeration is a big problem for many, especially those with medication that needs to be kept a certain temperature.  The art of ice houses should be taught in any survival group.  With the super insulation available now, as opposed to the straw used for thousands of years, an ice house can provide excellent refrigeration for weeks or months.  It doesn’t have to be a wine celler size either,  ice containment storage areas can be much smaller for only the essentials.  People that live in colder climates have often watched for weeks that patch of snow in the shade that just doesn’t melt even with above freezing temperatures. Below ground, the ice facility takes much longer to melt.  Even people in warmer climates can make their own ice house.

        For cooking one item that people might want to consider are wood pellets to store.  Those that have wood pellet stoves will tell you how much heat these generate, and they are relatively easy to light as the wood pellets should not have any moisture in them.  Wood pellets go anywhere between about $3.50-$5 per 40 pound bag.  They can be stacked in some dry corner or in the garage and will provide a lot of cooking time in one of those firepits or a barbeque type device.  Lots of bags of charcoal are also a good source of heat.  I believe the wood pellets and charcoal provide about 8-10 thousand BTU’s per pound, about half that of propane gas which provive a little over 22000 BTU’s per pound.

        Sun ovens are nice way of cooking food, but are slow.  A nice parabolic solar disk can heat up foods very quickly, they act like a reverse magnifying glass to the sun.  They can be made out of old satellite dishes and something very reflective.  People have used old CD’s, hundreds of them fastened to the dish.  Parabolic dish don’t have to be disk like either, as there are many different shapes that will work quite well also. 

        Candles again are not just for light, they can be used to heat up food and even boil water.  Oh, by the way yuou can enhance a candle’s light output by using mirrors or even shiny side of aluminum wrap so the candle’s flame is directed back towards where you want the light. 

        Little Buddy Heaters have a BTU rating of 4000 BTU’s on low and 9000 on high.  One pound of propane will last about 5 and 1/2 hours on low and 2 and 1/2 hours on high.  40oo BTU’s will heat about 100-150 sq feet.  You can get larger propane tanks and a conversion valve that will allow you to fill up those one pound containers that the Buddy Heaters use.  Or even they sell hoses that coonect to larger propane containers and let you use hook it up to the heater as long as you keep the bigger tanks outside.  One 20 pound tank has 446,000 BTU’s in it and will provide aboout 111 hours of heat to a Buddy Heater set on low, or a little over 4 and 1/2 days.  That could save someone in an outage that is later repaired. 

        Water is a huge issue, and someone that doesn’t have a lake or a pond or stream nearby needs to store water.  You can store water in those durable plastic trash cans for example and rotate it often.  You can also purchase bottled water and stack them like they do at these warehouse stores like Sam’s Club.  You could literally store in the space that takes up a washing machine and dryer about 200-250 gallons of water.  You will need to rotate these cases of water about every 1 and 1/2 years to 2 years.  Also these sites that advertise here offer these huge water storage units that are very convenient to use.  There is a product offered that you put into the water and it keeps it fresh and safe for 5 years.   Also don’t forget to store water for cleaning your hands and even your clothes with if you can.

        Again, Daisy, nice article.  There is so much that people need to know, as the non prepper is sadly so ill prepared. 

        • Do a you tube search for Fresnel (Frenel) lens. There is one behind the screen in any rear projection TV. Easy way to boil water on a sunny day, but be careful to wear sunglasses and use something to cover it when not in use. You can easily set your house on fire.

          One problem is that many of these TVs have already been discarded.

          • Actually, that’s somewhat of a myth. Yes there is a fresnel back there, but no it will not effectively start fires. I know because I tried. They’re quite flimsy, so you can’t hold them flat and aim them at the sun to start a fire.You could build a frame, but now you’re getting into greater work.  

            OTOH, there are two focal lenses inside the TV that will work for starting fires. One is typically about 3.5″ across and the other is only 1″ but focuses very tightly. I’ve started fires with those.

            Sorry to burst your bubble on the fresnel, but happy to point out that your rear projection TV still does have what you need. From one who’s tried.

      14. FBP, thanks for your feedback on the berkey;  I’m going to browse the sites over the weekend for the best price on one and some extra filters for it.  after that purchase, I’ll look into a woodstove for the humble abode.  My prepping is also geared toward a “non-electrical” lifestyle.   If it’s going to be an EMP,  I have all of my battery-operated radios,  LED flashlights, etc. stored in an old heavy-duty metal cabinet so they should be allright.   Daisy,  I’ve briefly looked at your 2 new blogs;  very interesting,  I’ll try to look at them more extensively over the weekend.   Braveheart

        • Is there something I should know about the Katadyn drip filter (PRK)?

          IMO, a generator is strictly a short term proposition. I have one, but don’t depend too heavily on it.

           Am I the only one who notices that our gooberment (at all levels) finds fault with anything that helps us stay off the gooberment tit?

          • Bought mine off ebay.

        • BH  Don’t wait to long The Vendor at my Gun show. Told me that Berkley informed all of their dealers that there will be no shipment for a WHILE. The Government step in and bought all they had and all they are going to make for at least the rest of the year.   So if they have in stock get it. 

          • Government buying them up huh? Hmmmmmmm………..

            • Mostly Northeartern FEMA Units. 

          • Braveheart.   If you are a BUG OUTer look at the Lifesaver cans PERIOD. The Berkley is easy but Fragile once set up. When in the “Village resort” we were at Berkley number one. When on the move Life saver cans were slower but unless a low rank idiot vacationer drove over one, I ALWAYS ALWAYS took the abuse of the summer outings we were on.



        • Take a look at the AquaRain water filtration system.  Their products are all made in the US and according to recent comparisons, (see my above post) the filters are better than the Berkey.

          The filters for the Berkey and the AquaRain are the the same size.  I have a friend that now uses AquaRain filters in her Berkey.  The AquaRain filters are made to be cleaned and reused.

          • We have a collection of Doulton Super Sterasyl ‘water candles’ stored away to make water filters with and for barter.  Cheap and their certified lab results compared favorably against the one that Berkey put out which was under some shadow of question as to it’s authenticity.  (just google it, there’s a lot of info on it).  We also bought them during the time that Berkey was having all those problems with the black filters coming apart from bad glue so it was a no brainer to go with something else. 

      15. Also, BigB, you should appreciate these. 100% Beeswax. My wife and I raised Bees in Michigan. Moved to AZ. I miss my Bees.

      16. Good article.  There are lots of simple easy preps you can do!    I farm and can be off grid very easily.  I write in my blog http://www.survivalist.zzn.com about the practical things I run into that work.  For long term light we have recently focused on olive oil lamps…  I am in northern California foothills and we have lots of olives.  I have started growing them myself as a long term source of fats and cooking oil.   A  5 gallon bucket of olives will make about a liter of oil.    You can buy wicks by the roll and to light an olive oil lamp you put about 1 inch of oil  in the bottom of a mason jar, make a little metal stand that you can hook the wick into a slit in the metal.  Coil a couple of inches of wick down in the oil and have the end of the wick attached to and sticking through the metal slit about 1 inch out of the oil and showing above the metal slit about 1/3 an inch.    Light it and it will draw…  happy prepping…

        • @ SC,

              I have a question for you. The realm of all things biological is beyond my meager knowledge. The question is thus; Knowing of the enormous , neccessary function of essential oils in the human diet – and thanks for the oil lamp info – do you perchance know what growing zones olives are compatible with. Here I mean temperatures, average season to ripen and such like?

          • @ JustOneGuy.  Olives will normally tolerate down to 15 degrees F, maybe Zone 8.  Olives of course grow well in Greece and Southern Italy along with california.  One of the best books I ever purchased for planting information is called Western Garden Book by Sunset.  This book talks about every type of plant and tree, and which zone they grow in best.  It is 768 pages of pure information that I would recommend to anyone trying to start and maintain a survival garden. 

            • @ SC,

                 Many Thanks, when one is near or completely ignorant about a thing ALL help is aprreciated sincerely. Miy notion is with respect to what I am apprised is zone 7b (I think) in a relatively wet environment…more as in towards the Seattle zone of things preceipitation wise but not quite. I shall acquire the Western Garden book (Sunset) post-haste. Again many thanks…..   

      17. IF depend on a well, the pump you need is a Grunfos SQFlex pump.  They can be directly powered by solar, or wind,  or a generator, or grid power, or any combination of those sources.  30-300 volts DC or 90-240 volts AC can be used to run the pump.  This pump is a HUGE advantage over regular well pumps.

        With grid power, you run these pumps as any normal well pump.  Grid down, you can switch to a couple solar panels ( number of solar watts depends on depth of well and amount of water you want per minute ) WITHOUT needing batteries, inverters, charge controllers……you would need a storage tank, but basically when the sun shines, you pump water.  Dirt simple, direct use of solar.

        • @ Tn-Andy

          Thanks for the data. On a side note per Daisy’s article, there is a company in Maine that sells an all stainless steel deep well hand-pump that mates directly to your existing well casing…yes its pricey $$$…but is a definite advantage if a grid down episode were to last months or years. See link below for details:


          • Hi Anton,

                You advise as to the pump is very good. I would like to add something here…broadly. Regardless of what you choose to equip yourself with – for what is to come – it is ALWAYS the case that given the choice between two indentical-function items ALWAYS select for any that are of ‘stainless steel’ construction….even in the face of the price differential which will exist. Siad Stainless has a virtually unlimited life-span corrosion wise and superior mechanical characteristics uniformly, hands down!

                The only exceprion to this – and that only when dealing with things that are emplaced in soil – is that that in at least two regions of the country, Florida and East Texas, the utility companies have discovered that the soil’s theat harbor a genus of bacteria  – ‘Flora’ – which is fully capable of negating the central feature of the mechanism by which ‘Stainless Steel’ obtains to it’s unique properties.

                Said Flora has the ability to metabolically utilize the ‘passivated nickel’ layer which appears always within minutes of it’s formation on any SS, even when ‘nicked’ or ‘gouged’ which serves as the actual preventor of further corrosion. Almost evey piece of piping used in ‘Cat Cracker’s’ at petroluem refineries universally uses heavily nickel plated SS as the carrer for fluid transport in the process since all such utilize ‘HF’ as the operative agent to ‘crack’ the lonf-stranded pertoleum ‘gunk’ which is crude into smaller, lighter fractions which we utilize as gasoline, naptha, diesel and etc.

                For those of you who are not familiar with ‘HF’, that is , “Hydro-Flouric Acid”, it is a substance so insanely chemically active that it resembles nothing so much as it does the ‘blood’ from the Aliens portrayed in the ‘Aliens’ franchise starring Sigourney Weaver.

                In summation, if you live or abide anywhere else and your concern is longevity then go with SS, you’ll thank your lucky stars you did.

            • Not only stainless pumps for corrosion resistance but also bronze internal parts to keep bacteria from collecting as opposed to ferrous material such as steel or cast steel.

              • Hi PO’d,

                    I concur predominantly. Wherever the ‘mixure’ being transported is effectively a pure fluid, ie – not a slurry, in any way shape or form – bronze is a wholly adequate material for bearings and bearing surfaces. Possibly even, the superior material inasmuch as it is READILY fabricated into final form….SS has a terrible tendency to anihilate tool steel and is in fact only workable by such toolage as those either of the  ‘Cobalt steel alloy’ persuasion or more so toolage of the “Tungsten Carbide” type….standard, high-speed tool steel bits cannot even successfully drill through plate stainlesss, let alone be used to fabricate such into complex shapes.

        • Two x 215w = 430w of solar panels here. I’m cool….:)

      18. very good advice dais. great article!

      19. If you are storing gasoline for a generator be careful! not only is it pretty dangerous having tons of the stuff hanging around, but also modern fuel deteriorates quite quickly so unless you treat it with a “fuel fit” type product you could well be wasting your money, when you need it, it will have gone stale and be useless even treated fuel is only ok for about 12-18 months.

      20. I checked all my plug ins last night and my walls seem to all be full of electric so I will be good for a while if the power goes out.

        • You be one funny dude, Anonymous.

          I’m coming to you house–oh, oh.

      21. I moved to big shot drive and let me tell you these people are dumber than rocks. I will laugh my raisins off when the lights go out as these lawyer types come crawling to me for help. Of course I will make them give up any shred of dignity they have for a candle.

      22. great article and advice…  this is 1 of those “no-excuse-for-not-doing-it” atricles…  what will become our permanent living property i am developing 3 water sources: well with multiple pumping capabilities, nearby river and rain collection…  i also have 3 methods of purification and working on a 4th: chemical(bleach +1), multi-stage processing(filtration+) and heating…  underground volume storage is also in the mix… 

      23. What’s the big deal.  Most Americans have been in the dark their whole life.

        • @ URS

          Great post & how true.

          To which I would add…most “still” suffer from Stevie Wonder syndrome today, as well.

      24. The lights go out here for a week or two every few years do to winter storms and these experiences have helped me to perfect my response.  The best thing I did was buy a ventless dual-gas space heater three years ago.  It eliminated my need to run a generator just to heat the city house.  It usually runs on natural gas, but is easily switched to propane if that should be interrupted which no one recalls happening since we live so close to the wells.  Being 99.9% efficient, it has already paid for itself in savings since our old 60% efficient furnace does not come on nearly as much.  It also eliminated the need for two portable humidifiers as moisture is a byproduct of burning natural gas.

        Since installing the heater we almost never use the generator anymore.  The freezer needs only an hour a day to stay cold so we start the Jeep or truck and use an inverter for that and when we watch satellite TV in the evenings.  Since it is not full-sine we recharge electronics using cigarette lighter adapters.  The truck has duel tanks so we can meet our electrical needs for six weeks until we have to pour any of our stored fuel.  We have battery and hand crank lights and radios, but I prefer the warm glow of the kerosine lanterns.

        We cook with natural gas and also have a propane grill, backpack stove, and a portable one that burns wood.  I can even poke holes in a #10 can, turn it upside down over a kerosine lamp with the chimney removed and use that.  Water is not scarce here as we live between a river and a lake and have rain barrels.  We have many ways to filter or treat water to make it safe to consume and since we live below the water tower have a water bob which fits in the tub to collect another 100 gallons of potable water at the last minute.

        Should an event last longer than six weeks, we would use our stored fuel to evacuate to our wood heated, solar powered cabin with propane for convenience an hour away or to the homes of family members in other states. 

        • Prepare Pastor,

            I purchased the ventless dual-gas space heater also.  I use it with propane and have experimented with it in the garage and shed.  It is awesome but I have yet to set it up inside.  I don’t want a 20 LB propane cylinder inside so…..do I have to drill a hole through an outer wall to run a propane line through it?  I think I know the answer but I am hoping someone else has found a work-around.


          • Kindle if you’re on a foundation, punch a 3/8 inch hole throught the block and then drill up through the floor, if the heater is wall hung. Just remember, running these ventless gas heaters will put off a lot of humidity (moisture) and make the windows sweat. They can also deplete the oxygen in the home. Make sure they all have oxygen depletion sensor features where they will automatically shutdown if their used in a small room where someone sleeps.

            • Thank you for the help.  Yes, I am on a foundation.  My plants will love the humidity and I do have oxgen sensors.  I also always keep a couple of windows  cracked open for fresh air.

              Thank you again

        • The freezer needs only an hour a day to stay cold so we start the Jeep or truck and use an inverter for that and when we watch satellite TV in the evenings. 


          Since I have two, can you tell me what setting you keep your freezer on?? TY..jayjay

          And yes, my empty space is filled with 2 liter and juice jugs of water for the refrigerator WTSHTF.

          • @ JayJay  

             I am assuming you hook up your inverter to your car battery and let the car run for a hour.   

             Do you run an electrical cord directly to your fridge or to an outlet or ?   

             If so, why even buy a generator.  

            Please fill me in and thx in advance.

            • I have an inexpensive (aka, cheap)generator–let me tell you why.

              It isn’t practical to store that much gas..I have 38 gallons  in the shed and usually 36 + in two of the cars.  I can’t guard it even though we have guns and the shed is locked. 🙁

              So, the generator is for short term.  I also use food from the freezer as much as I can rather than rely on my canned goods. I even try to not keep foods in the fridge; we eat them quickly.

              My point is I am not gonna have a $6000 Honda for $500 worth of food to save—give it up, share, if TSHTF–probably.

              My question was the freezer setting–I read to keep it waaaay below 0 and it will last longer than at 15-20, etc.  Also, use ALL empty space with filled juice jugs and helps retain cold longer and you can use those for the fridge to help keep that food cooler—but I know all here know that…I didn’t.

              By the way, I finally got the charger for the car today(yes, somehow, it got deleted from my ‘to get’ list–happen to others here??? )–it’s for the laptop/modem really(I already had a 25 foot phone line to reach the garage and lots of extension cords), but as long as I have gasoline, I can do other stuff using that charger.  Like start that car, plug in my heaters and keep warm. (h)




      25. First time commentor,

           Water filtration, instead of investing in an expensive water filter system, google Emergency water filter system shtf.  Proceed to You Tube video. Shows how to make filter system for about $45.00.  Filters can be had at Cheaper Than Dirt for about $21.00. Candle filters can be cleaned and leach approx. 1 liter of water per hour.

        • Welcome OhioSteve.  Thanks for the tip.


        • ohio steve

          i have over 50 three and four inch pvc filters made up now,,with charcoal (i make) gravel,sand,,,,my 4″ ones are 3` long and 3″ are 4`,,very portable too,,also all mine are painted cammo,,,


      26. Dig defensive ditches. Set up trip wires. Set up noise making  alarms from cans. Presuming an EMP or collapse of the banking system.  It’s welcome to the dark ages time.

        I’ve been stocking up on candles and have some 80 pounds of Soy wax for more.

        And to the bleeding hearts who are worried about children getting hurt. No decent parents are going to be letting their children out in a collapse. Ferfal talks about how kidnapping and hostages became common in Argentina after their collapse.



        • S-Dave

          It being Christmas time, instead of trip wires and old cans with a nut in them, grab some jingle bells post christmas at a discount. They are loud and depending on what you get, have a loop to hang around door knobs ect.

          My SHTF security system.

          • Last week I found those battery powered window/door alarms at the local Dollar Tree store. They work surprisingly well for a dollar! They’re the kind that have 2 pieces and are magnetic (or something)- if the magnets in the 2 pieces are moved apart a circuit is broken and a very loud and annoying alarm sounds.

            I picked up about 20 of them for the doors & windows plus I figure I can rig up a trip wire system with one of the alarms and some fishing line that should work better (and louder) than the old nut in a can.

            • saved by grace and afterthefallpa

              if you`ll add tribble hooks on 50 lb xl mono fishing line  around at different heights you`ll have a real early warning devise,,as they come in the dark,,,,


              • Hi Snake,

                    Another take on the fishing line suggestion – a complementary one – I was recently dwelling on thre notion of something simple with which to present an unobtrusive yet effective ‘entanglement’ should anyone choose to venture near to one’s house/shelter. After some thought I pulled out a tangle of old fishing line and since it was a large tangle – some several which I had collected – to prevent accidents for either people or area wildlfe I took th time to unwind it JUST enough to be able to lay it out on the grass near a walkway at my home. Every attempt I made to walk through it was effectively unsuccessful as it has such a wonderful tendency to snag on damn near everthing it comes into contact with. IF one started with several rolls of say 100 lb test monofilament I could believe that anyone attempting intrusion along anything but predefined avenues would be effectively slowed enough to allow for the appropriate application of the ‘coup de grace’

                     This might well be wholly visible during daylight hours but that also woulds serve a purpose. IF someone moving at speed elected to trample through same – and one had effected a minimum tie-down of same – then they would go down rather quickly….if upon seeing same they avioded it they would be delayed in seeking a free avenue of approach – effectively forced to either retreat immediately with all the vulnerabilities associated therewith or they would be compelled to travel laterally across one’s ‘field of influence’, No?

                    It goes without saying that in the dark this would be a true deterrent which if further equipped with a small number of noise ‘makers’ would serve effectively as an early warning system as well as a ‘pitfall/entanglement’….just a thought. 🙂

                • i have that too around my house,,most of my hook lines are in front of my windows,,if you do it you`ll be surprised what (who) you catch


        • FAR too much FEAR and NOT ENOUGH FAITH…..diggin’ lil ditches? Trip wires? Good luck with that when there may be more than 100 hungry people attempting to get what you have…….if you have ditches and trip wires you are advertising that you have something to protect……guess what? Unless you have multiple people with weapons, all you have will be taken, and you will be lucky to have your life left…..best to have your defenses undetectible…..and your property looking as if it has had no care…..put yourself out there as if you are like THEM and have nothing……may GOD help us all!  Good intentions are just that, good intentions……


      27. And you get your porpane / kerosene from?

        The Kerosene Fairy?

        Hmmm would like to suggest:

        Solar still… for when ya run outa Berkies… they’re slow and sad but they have a Youtube of a guy that did it with a really big Fresnel and two bottles and some rubber hose.   You can do seawater with this.  You can’t with a Berky.

        Waste oil heater / stove?  At least you have a chance of going around and getting a fuel source from abandoned vehicles.  I’m not sure what else to suggest here.

        • The Kerosene Fairy?”

          For lighting? That’s easy: Diesel fuel, motor oil, rendered animal fats and grease, pressed oils from seeds/nuts or certain fruits, distilled pine pitch (aka turpentine), undiluted alcohol… lots of places, really. Just have to know where to look and how to process what you need.

          For heat? Bit different, but a lot of that depends on your local climate anyway, but usually you’d burn it.



        • We retired the 250 gallon propane tank for a 500 gallon propane tank..and you are right. 

          It will only last us two winters with normal use.  I have already conceded to the fact of sleeping/living in one room to help the life of a tank.

          AND…I check the damned thing quite often to keep it as close to 85% as I can..but the company will only deliver for 100 gallons or charge $60 delivery fee and that ain’t happening!!! 


        • Piper Michael, I should have read this first, I suppose. 

          Arrogance is the supreme evidence of one’s ignorance.  Guess I am not such a dolt after all.

      28. Acquire the thing that the government doesn’t want people to have: Tesla Technology. Be it good or evil, he knew how to extract energy from the air – so to speak. Apparently it doesn’t cost that much to put together. So when gas, propane, etc. run out, and they will over time, energy from the Lord’s earth will endure! Anyone who knows how to do this should tell the public asap! The world had a chance at free energy back in Tesla’s day, but JP Morgan was quoted as saying: “If I can’t (meter) it, I don’t want it”. Morgan knew that he couldn’t make any money off of this tech,  so it went bye-bye into gov. vaults for safe keeping, or until the elites wanted to use it.

        • Hi K Mc,

             Unfortunately Nikoloi took some of what he knew to the ‘other’ side with him when he went. As far as that consumate but-rag MORGAN is concerned the genesis of that statement lay in Tesla’s ability through VERY large coils to efectively transmit electricity a very long way…some several miles! …which when MORGAN was aprroached with the idea he remarked ‘Yes, but how do I meter it?” to which Nikoloi answered, “That would be difficult” Shaz-bang-boom, the end of the notion of wireless transmission, MORGAN immediately went to Bell and the rest is history…

          It is unfortunate that Tesla’s wireless transmission technology was never widely adopted for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was the ‘Ultimate’ portability of any device intended to draw sustenance therefrom…but it yet did not obviate the neccessity to have a mundane generating source with all the attendant input thereto….Damn the luck, no ‘freebies’ once again 🙂

      29. Matthew 5: 16  “Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works  and glorify your Father in heaven”.

        Protect and give care to your family, your neighbors, your town, your state, and your country.  I know that in the United States of America, there are millions of “Lights” which will not go out, …..no matter what Satan throws at us.

        Matthew 16:18 “Also I say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”.


      30. With my bee hives I have and forsee no end to the light situation.  In fact my wife and I have a routine al set up for power outages.  This is one area that I know I have the bases covered on.  If the power goes out in my house there is a solar powered light on my work bench. Once that is turned on I have access to my Honda 2000 generator.  At least 8 hours of running time under moderate load per gallon of gas. Plan is to allot 4 hours per day, 1 hour in the morning and 3 at night.  Will switch over to an apartment / back bar small refrigerator that takes hardley any power.  50 gallons of gasoline is stored and that should give me 100 days.  I also have a back up generator but it uses twice the gas.

        Plan B is to move into our travel trailer if we have to or need to bug out.  30 gallons of propane with a hose and adapter for filling up the small cannisters for trade.  40 gallons of water in the trailer plus 50 gallons in seperate containers should be enough to get started and since I live at the convergence of the two largest rivers in California.

        Have adapted a small wood stove to put in the trailer if needed and not only do I have wood for it I have saved over 500 lbs of printining paper that I used to throw away till I read an article on this site regardinging leaves and shredded paper mixed to gether and shaped with a coffee can although I have found using Pringle Potato chip cans to be better.

        I think the only nthing I have left to do is to get another truck in case we have to bug out and go off the grid at a remote piece of property we bought last year.  You can’t expect 1 F150 to tow a 27 ft trailers and all of our preps to last us 6 months.  After that we can start harvesting natural foods and begin a garden.

        I am one pleased prepper at this point.  Not to say there is more that can be done.  I even built a fairaday cage the other day using a large tool box.  Back up radios and electronics already in there and stored.  BTW Ikea has these wind up flashlights for $3.50 each.  They look like a red coffee grinder.  I have used and abused one and it has held up really well.

        Keep on prepping and we will se you all on the other side God willing and the creek don’t rise.

        • Splendid ideas BigB,

              I envy you your ability, rest assured I’ll always give you Thumbs+ for near onto anything you post here that is related to the Beekeeping thing. I will, later this spring, be relocating and I cannot under the current circustance even contemplate doing such,, but after I have done so this is one of my high priority’s….learning and then doing. Many thanks, greatly appreciated!! 🙂

          • Back at you pal.  If you relocate out West let me know.

            • Howby BugUn (BigB!),

                 Kindly spoke Brother!,

                    Per previous post, I’ve elected towards a more ‘Northerly’ exit vector….quite a ways! Thanks for the offer Bro, one never knows, “The Best laid plans of mice and Men” as it were! 🙂


              Oh, BTW, the MORE I read about the little fella’s the MORE amazed I am….Damn!, does EVERYTHING come from them! LOL 🙂

      31. Very nice article. There is always something you can do. During SANDY we decided to use one of our AQUAPODS. We ended up not needing it but the wife and I said if we actually came down to needing water,what would you pay to get it. We slit it open after the power came on ,but that was a cheap $25.00 insurance policy for our family. I also used a 800w power inverter (only $79.00) run from the car to the house to make coffee (the quickie mart had 100 sheeple in line) We also used this to have lights to eat dinner with and to run the fish tanks  once in a while. It was a nice sense of relief not having to run around like a madman to supply up for that storm. Our goal is to save up for a solar generator. We believe that gas will draw too much attention to you in a total SHTF situation. Besides,like Daisy wrote…..how much gasoline can you safely store anyway?

      32. BigB,

        Could you tell us more about the paper/leaves in a coffee can?

        • I got the idea off this site maybe a year ago.  I own a small business and go through about a case of printing paper per month.  Instead of throwing it away we shred each sheet into about 6 strips.   Take your leafs you rake up.  Place a pound or two of shredded papers into a wheel barrow.  Add everday leaves and just enough water to  to get it all mushy.  Mix it real well.  Pack any container such as a coffee can (metal) or pringle chip can or my new favorite is a large PVC pipe.  Pack the stuff inside tighht till it is not dripping out too much. I was thinking about drilling some holes, small ones, to help it dry faster.  Let dry and push the log out.  Easy Peasy and very green.  Not that I am a big green guy. Should be but I’m not.  🙂

      33. At SurvivalBlog.com this morning there was a link to an article from Emergency Management.com basically stating that preppers are “socially selfish”.  Read the following post….they are particularly good.


        Last night I finished reading “Noah’s Castle” by John Rowe Townsend.  Both of these deal with the concept of having the foresight to prep but whether you share or not.  I started the book with one attitude but by the end I was a little torn on what the right answer was/is.

        In the book, Norman stocks up but does not share.  “Hoarding” becomes a prisonable & fineable offense.  People are literally starving but his family eats well.  Too well actually.  Townies figure out he has a hoard and storm his castle.  He looses it all and become reviled for “not sharing”.

        I am a “Christian” prepper and have built in 10-15% for charity as well as enough to take care of an 80 year old neighbor and a 60 year old guy that lives next door.  I do agree with Rawles regarding charity being distributed through a 3rd party so people don’t figure out the source.  My 2 neighbors would be direct.

        In a number of books, blogs, posts, and just in talking with like minded people many consider my 2 neighbors (80 & 60) to be “worthless eaters”.  I have a really hard time with that mentality, even though in the most dire of circumstances it would be true. 

        Many prescribe to the notion “only the strong survive” and those should be the ones we support.  I have trouble with that to.  “Strong” in what?  Strength?  What about spiritually, compassion, wisdom, knowledge, etc.?  My 2 neighbors may not have the physical strength but the depth of their heart and compassion toward others is something people could learn from. 

        I have seriously been trying to figure out some of these things.  I used to have a ready made answer but the more I think about it the more I am not sure.  I think I would rather have people around me that recognize and value of “other” attributes and not just physical strength. 

        I could use some feedback on the concept of “useless eaters and sharing”.






        • Socially selfish?

          You mean, much UNLIKE the people that put us in this financial position… they of course are paragons of altruism…


        • Hiya Kindle,

             Hope everything is proceeding more smoothly now…though  I am not ‘in the loop’ with Mac and those who are here “The Upper Crust” 🙂 I am sure that some, if not all, of thre difficulties you and others were ezperiancing the last day or so are due do the factors I mentioned.

              I have a parable – of sorts – for YOU, and those here tonight if you will permit me.


              “Behold, I looked forth and saw a line of people to my left and to my right, which stretched as far as the eye could see,

              As I looked to my left, I saw a man reach down to another who lay upon the ground. In no wise was it evident that this one was injured or halt or otherwise unable to carry his own weight, upon his two feet.

              Nonetheless , one near to him stooped and raising him up, slung him over his shoulder and proceeded down the road, his step heavy. Soon as we all waliked on the Way I looked again and saw that both lay aside of thre road…the one exhausted and the other uncaring, motionless both.

              I heard a voice say, “Such is not my intent…”

              I looked, at one point, to my right and saw a man stand next to his fellow man, who lay, either exhausted or lame or both, and after a momentary pause, he turned and proceeded along the road without looking back.

              I heard a voice say “Such is not my intent….”

              Some time later I looked askance of the trail before me and saw one, standing next to the one next to him – who lay pon the ground, clearly weary – reach out and offer his hand. When he did so that one who lay beside the road took it, and with another’s help, rose to his feet and both resumed the journey before them.

              And I then Heard a voice say,

                  “THIS is my intent. I have placed you here, many of you, such that none who strives upon the Road I have laid at you feet need be alone in the journey; that always you should help, wherever you are, wherever I have placed those who share the road with you. The way must be walked by each one’s own feet, else those feet will not know where they have been and so not know where and how to go upon the Way.”

              When I raised my head to look again down the way I saw that I was being lifted up very high, until I could see far down the length of the line at either side of me. And as I looked I saw that in fact, that the line was curved out to a great distance and the number of people in that line was all those who had ever lived , or would live…truly, a multitude.

                And I knew that I was seeing into Time, and so knew that some, at various and diverse points along the way, would falter and lay down and rise no more. But also, I knew that others would take thier place and continue the walk along that long road.

               And the voice spoke a last final time, and said,

                 “Yes, this is my intent….walk along the road that I have prepared for you, learn where the pit’s and deadfalls are at and overcome them, help those with whom you share the road for NONE are great enough  to overcome it by themselves. and so  for in this way alone will you become learned and in the end of all things come before me…Completed.”


          Such as this MAY be the way……

          • Awesome!  Thank you.

        • Kindle ultimately you have to decide based on what you can live with, either emotionally or literally.   

          I can offer that our group, a few families and some singles, have set aside materials to help out families with children, primarily because it’s not the children’s fault their parents are idiots and we’ll do what we can to see that they don’t suffer because of it.

          But if the situation is such that our families will die as a result of generosity, well that a decision we’re still struggling with and likely won’t have an answer until it’s put to the test for real. 

          • “But if the situation is such that our families will die as a result of generosity, well that a decision we’re still struggling with and likely won’t have an answer until it’s put to the test for real. “

            Some of the truest words ever spoken.


        • @ Kindle:

          there is no singular answer…  at the end of the day, you must be able to live with yourself and the things you’ve done or didn’t…  if you’re the “leader” or “head” of the group that will weather tshtf then it’s even more  important that you can close your eyes at night in mental peace…  there will be as many opinions as peole in any given group and yes, they have merit but the buck will stop at your feet…  how is your group set up..?  equal votes or maybe opinions taken considered and you make the final decisions, or group consensus…?  however things work for you and yours is what you should do…  bear in mind too that the circumstances of each “charity” case will likely change so having flexibility is a good thing…

          “useless eaters”:  these are parasites on society even when things are good… they will return to take as long as any particular hand of charity is outstretched…  they are the truly lazy in that they will do nothing for themselves in any way to raise themselves from continual dependence on others…  these are the hardened cases of the “entitlement mentality”…  in many cases, this type is generally migratory in that if the hand of charity withdraws from them, they will move on to another source until that welcome wears thin and so on…  i expect that wtshtf they will continue to behave much the same and are perfect fodder for the fema camps…  once they are being supported, they’ll hang right there and complain if any effort toward anything menial is requested of them in return…   my profession is operating a charity-based, non-profit and we have contact with the “needy” on a daily basis and have for most of 20 years…  we must draw lines regarding our providing services because of these individuals and there is a “line”, if you will, between charity and being the ongoing support for a person or group…  i am a firm believer in a hand up not a hand out and “work-fair” not welfare…  on the rare occasion, giving an individual “a break” can produce a kind of loyalty that forms one of the strongest bonds of dedication…   

          pray for the best, prep for the worst…

      34. I just read a story of a man who was eating a dog on the street. Not the kind you put mustard on. He was a zombie? This is insane the gates of hell have been knocked down and are laying flat and the dead are coming back to eat the flesh of the living and the dead outnumber the living. I read that somewhere in an old book. It seems those sounds heard at the beginning of 2012 in January must have been one of the trumpets. I also heard it during the night I woke up and stood on my porch and wondered why the sky was making noise. No one believed until much later when they began to see it all over the world on the internet. What is to come 2013? God help us!

      35. Nice article, Daisy! Plus, I noticed your write-up on canning chili over at the Organic Prepper site. Excellent! I have a soft spot in my heart for girls with chili. If Mrs okie ever evicts me, could I come live with you? (I promise I’ll behave, and I won’t go anywhere near the chocolate!)

        • Oh Smokin’,

              You sooo Funny……Glad to see you back, was missing our weekly dose of ‘Fun wit Lang-widge’. 🙂

        • Where ya been Smokin?

        • Thanks SmokinO!!!  And you’re welcome any time!  🙂

      36. Good article as many have already said, im planning on just stepping back into the early 1800s for the most part, cant afford much of a solar getup, figure there are other much more important items, have a couple big dutch ovens, can bake in them or roast or stew, picking up a slew of carpenter and woodsmans hand tools, we have a reservoir for water but not sure how long 80k gallons will last if we dont get any rain like its been doing lately, got a few nice oil lamps from Lehmans that will use kerosene or oil or deisel fuel and a slew of extra wicks, we have wood all around too for fuel, looking to dig an outhouse, necessities !

        If the power goes out for good i dont want to depend on anything modern if i can help it, takes some thought, there are so many things we use these days and take for granted, 

        The big berkely folter and a katadyne that is good for 13000 gallons should do for water, looking to get an oil press, could prove valueable

      37. There was something really profound that was on my mind earlier, but now I can’t remember what it was. It had something to do with the ultimate meaning of life…or how to unclog a diesel injector, I forget which. Maybe it’ll come to me later.

        Meanwhile, life (and the slow-motion crash) goes on. I guess the old homestead is fairly well prepared for a lights out scenario. We have the kerosene lamps, a full propane tank, and a wood stove. Plus some candles and flashlights and such. So the heat, light and cooking are covered. Of course we could always use more. Like they say: two is one, and one is none…and 3 goes into 17 five times with some left over. Why is it that ‘they’ always say those things, anyway? Don’t they know that math confuses me?

        • @Smokin’ – hope you’ve found some downtime from the wind-shield.  No worry on the math thing… it will just make you ‘nuts’ and matter not – LOL, turn up the P.Floyd and carry on.

          I’m very happy to see you chiming in and think MsD’s new adventure in the WWW is our fortunate gain and is very grand.  I wish I had the attention span needed to be so organized.  I wander off into rabbit holes, but thankful there are some grounded folks about to keep us on track.

          /Shout out to Ms.D… I cherish your wisdom and look forward to your successes that you share.

          • Wee ~  Thank you very much. I really appreciate the kind words from you and others.  Even the unkind words can help us learn.  I hope that the things I’ve learned can help people!

            ~ D 

        • As always Smokin’…’Droll’….LOL!

      38. I like electricity to, so I have installed 8 – 80 watt solar panels, an 800 watt wind turbine 8 – 6 volt AGM batteries with 1000 amps of 12 volt power.  Many people do not realize all you can do IF you have 12 volt power.  You can cook with 12 volt power, you can heat with 12 volt power.  I use a 12 volt electric blanket to take the chill off cold winter nights in my bedroom. I will be buying a 12 volt cooler (from a truck stop) works much like a refrigerator it cools 40 degrees cooler than the out side temp.  Which is plenty cold normally.  I even converted a evaporative (swamp) cooler to 12 volt to cool my home and it works great and cost NOTHING to operate.  Not to mention you can run 12 volt TV’s, Radios, DVD Players, CB’s, coffee pot, you can even charge 12 volt power tools and recharge, re-chargeable batteries.  YOU CAN SEE WHERE I GOT MY IDEAS AND GET TONS OF INFO FREE AT:   http://www.survivingeconomiccollapse.blogspot.com

        • Skip the 12v thermoelectric cooler, they aren’t worth a shit. Get a 12v fridge; way more expensive, but way more useful.

          The thermoelectric coolers are OK for keeping your budweiser or miller lite cool while you tailgate at the football game, but not much else.

      39. oh great

        now there are SUPER solar storms




        • Me again,

               I can speak DIRECTLY to this….

              Several months ago I stumbled over a paper by two NASA researchers which was an analysis of some of the lunar materials brought back from the Apollo missions. In this peice they were taken by elements of the detailed debriefings of the astronuats. To wit: various of the descriptions given by same desctibed anomalous ‘collection sites’ at which evidence existed of ‘glassification’ – vitrification – of the lunar material in places which did not indicate the actuality of impact related high energy events.

               Subsequent analysis of the lunar materials revealed the presence of amounts and distributions of radio-nucleiides such that the conclusion of the researchers was that only VERY strong, hithero unimagined levels of Solar flux acting on the Lunar surface could have been responsible for the observed distributions and attendant vitrification noted.

              It is very difficult to obtain any even passably accurate estimates of ‘age of the samples involved due to a variety of factors, not the least of which is the unsuitability of the half-lives of the radio-isotopes involved, and at best they were able to ‘brackett’ this phenomena to only ‘sometime’ in the last million or so years. Food for thought…

              Additionally, during this – cycle #24 – of the recorded Solar cycles to date, there are numerous ‘oddities’ in play; delayed onset of this cycle, strongly reduced activity during the observed cycle relatibve to expectations and most recently something which has never been recorded before – at least by modern instrumentation – this past May a paper was released – academic, I’d have to dig a bit to locate the link – which concludes that the Sun, which under any normal circumstance and to the limit of our knowledge, is a mammoth electric dipole has in fact become an electric ‘Quadrupole’.

              At some point in the recent past I had posted a ‘blurb about this – in less detail than here I think, but in summa, both rotational poles (the axis of rotation as it were) appear to be carrying a charge of positive polarity whilst – and this was not entirely made clear in the article – a corrsponding negative charge has begun to accrue in the Solar equatorial regions. Whether this distribution is radially symmetric or no I could not glean from the description given.

              The salient here is that NO ONE even suspected somesuch as this could occur or had occurred in the past. We do NOT know what this means. A current, academic specualtion running about on the heels of this is that such MAY be a signal that a new period of global cooling is about to commence, another “Maunder Minimum’ at hand…but none knows in any realistic sense. The researchers conclusions are both wholly ‘Unexpected’ and ‘Interesting’….noting a previous comment here about the use of the word ‘Interesting’ in the academic world.

               Additional speculation is migrating through the scientific community at this time but same is as yet only that – speculation and not yet cogent.


          PS: Today’s Solar Report was posted to the previous forum as I failed to realize that Mac had posted another, newer one. Little of note has occured during the last period, since the last ‘Evening Solar Report’.

      40. December 2012 should be a month with a lot of interesting news

        get in on the hysteria !!!




        and things rocking and rolling in Alaska today


        • Hi Satori,

              Caught the earthquake in Alaska…near onto a 6.0 it was. I have passed same onto BI already. Didn’t know about the Russian ‘hysteria’ though … thinfs keep gettin wierder and wierder…don’t they?

        • @ Satori.  I read that about large earthquakes affecting faults thousands of miles away.  ANY 7.5 or larger rings the planet like a gong.  What I say is that earthquake foreshocks before the main shock are directed away from the main future large earthquake.  Much the same way a stick quivers away from the point in which it will snap directly when someone pull the stick to its breaking point.  Many in the science field will tell the public that earthquakes don’t usually have foreshocks, only 5% of the time.  This is not true, only foreshocks at the main break are rare, however foreshocks directed AWAY from the epicenter are extremely common and seem to focus in the polar and sub polar region. 

          When a large earthquake is getting ready to break, the tension is so locked that the main fault will usually only show microquake activity.  The energy and stress is focused away and will show up on other areas, especially polar regions in the Antarctica region.  It is no coincidence that for example 90% of time when there is a 5.0+ in the Balleny Islands there is a 6.5+ within 15 days.  Any pre earthquake activity on a destined big fault to break is probably just the fault that partially broke and relocked, only to finish breaking later. 

          There has been a lot of activity in the Antarctica region and by Monday there should be a 7+, 85-90% chance.  If there is not, there there is a near 100% chance of at least a 6.5+ by Dec. 12, that would be 15 days after the last sequence of polar earthquakes that occurred Nov.27, that was a 5.1. 

          Alaska is known as the land of a thousand smokes, volcanoes are all over the place, and many are capable of a VEI of 7.  This would be like Mt. Tambora that erupted in 1815 and caused the mini ice age that affected Europe terribly and lead to all sorts of starvation, like in Ireland for example and France especially.  Alaska is a bad place for volcanoes, but I still feel the one spot to watch is New Zealand for the super volcano type, much more so than Yellowstone for example. 

           I was talking and the Long Valley Caldera region long before any of these other sites started to, and this region is way more dangerous than Yellowstone.  Long Valley area is up by Mammouth Lakes ski resort about 100 miles south of Lake Tahoe.  Back about the time of Mount St. Helens going off there was 4 earthquakes of 6-6.6 in Mammouth area and really worried people because they thought the caldera was next to go.  An area called Devil’s Postpile shows the area was extremely active in the past.  This area is capable of ALMOST a super volcano status.  It would be enough with prevailing western winds, if it fully erupted, to ruin the United States. 

          As JustOneGuy is far the expert in solar matters, it was speculated that the demise of the trilobytes and other sea creatures was caused by either a radiation storm from the sun or a gamma ray pulse from a nearby exploding supernovae going off.  95% of all life was extinguished about 260 million years ago during the later stages of the Permian Period.  Some paleotologists say it was the collison of plates to form the supercontinent of Pangaea that killed off the species, other feel it was radiation that lead to disease.  Radiation storms can penetrate the protective layers of the atmosphere as airlines will halt travel around the poles completely during very intense storm.  Look at the NOAA space weather scales here:  http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/NOAAscales/index.html

          As you can see when the radiation levels reach that S 5 level or higher, it becomes dangerous to fly in commercial aircraft.  It can become much more intense than this.  Again, JustoneGuy can describe this is far better detail than me. 

          By the way poor Patrick has not been too accurate with those earthquake predictions based on the planets, as Nov.25-28 did not pan out for a 8+ quake.  I honestly tried to see about the correlation with planets, and I found the best way to forecast earthquakes is right here on the planet with past plate patterns and using the globe as a means of trying to figure out whioch direction the energy is focusing towards.   If it happened in the past, you can help forecast it in the future, just like the weather. 

          Satori, thank you for always searching around for the knowledge relating to everything that is talked about here.  Additional information is good to learn more from. 

          • Good Evening BI,


                I hardly NEED to interject here…your doing a splendid job! 🙂

            Many thanks for the foregoing ‘dissertation’, I am, as always, delighted to have your analysis upon such. Your previous mention of the Long Valley Caaldera was suprisingly fresh in my mind – and clearly Satori’s also – previously, again thanks for the analysis….many, many people here depend on your insight into such on a daily basis. I am pleased to keep such company here.

                Satori has posted out on something touched on some few weeks back, the apparent ability of the sun to produce hithero unexpectedly large flare’s at irregularly large, long intervals. A post is there below relative thereto. Such may be interesting.

                If you haven’t caught the most recent ‘Solar report’ there WAS a new GRB recorded last night…..THIS plays into your post above relative to the extraordinary ‘die-off’ some few hundred million years ago. As said thanks again Gents.

            PS: Evetyone here who btings out new things is welcome…wherther we’ve alrady seen them or not….you have to sleep sometime…a thanks to ALL who do so…..no man is an island entire unto himself afterall!

            • @ JustOneGuy.  See how well this works with polar earthquakes forecasting what is yet to come.  It followed that 170 degree east line just like it has several times before after this area had been nailed in the South Sandwich Islands over the decades.  It was not a 7+ in Vanautu, but it was a large earthquake tonight.  I am still watching the other longitude lines, especially 70 degrees west.  Nature is not that complicated, one just has to look at the patterns and follow them. 

              • I am becoming well impressed with your skills here friend! On another note; you DO realize that my ongoiing posting on the GRB issue is directed at specifically at you, Yes? Without going into detail at this time – for such has already been touched upon twixt us previously – WATCH what comes over time to come, allow those things to inhabit a small corner of your awareness as you sift through the mass of data you look over….mayhaps a mystery will be ‘revelead before our very eyes’ as things go on. All that is and depends from Science lies in the art of clear observation and the attendant discerning of pattern….and HUMANS are the singularly most astonishing pattern matching instruments ever seen… 🙂 Good Work ths far…

      41. In places that are not used to having black outs, within 24 hours there will be looters.  Within 48 it will start to get bad.  Within 72, people who would not normally steal will be in search of food and water.

        Katrina and Sandy are great examples.  But we had a brief look at this in San Diego last year.  Grid went out around 2 pm…didn’t come back on for atleast 12 hours.  In that time, gridlock occurred on the roads because none of the street lights worked.  Most cell phones did not work so people could not make arrangements with loved ones to pick up kids, when they would get home, etc.  People couldn’t get gas for their cars.  People were sprinting to the store for ice but many of the store credit card readers were down so it was cash only.  Many people didn’t have flashlights or candles.  They went home to pitch black houses, on dark streets…nothing.  Water stopped working because need electricity to pump it into the houses.

        We were fine.   Besides it only lasted until the next day.  but I don’t know where I stand in terms of the generator.  We didn’t have a generator (arguably a good thing because people would’ve come out of the woodworks once that thing started up.) Sure, great for the short term…but if you are the only house on a dark street with the lights on after the electricity had been out for a week or more, well that could make you a target for a very different reason.

        • In many places, the looting would start sooner.  In my hometown, when the electricity went out at night, I would turn on the scanner.  Within minutes, the police department would be reporting that people from certain neighborhoods were starting to move on foot toward the downtown stores.

      42. Might be a silly question to some – how hard is it to install a wood stove in a house with conventional HVAC/electric heat? Can it be a do-it-yourselfer project? Just curious. My husband is very handy but I know nothing (obviously) about the ventilation issues with a wood stove. 

        • mom to 3

          most of the time its easy,,but alot depends on you home,,also can be run out a window ,,just use the right insuation,,and make sure you put some heat block behind if close to a wall,,a lot of hardware stores have kits,,



          • Wow, really thumbs down on a perfect appropriate reply.  The trolls are out and about.  May-haps because snake didn’t give a schematic of rigging up a wood stove.  I think Momof3 might just happy someone took the time to actually reply and point her in a good direction.  May-haps some think Mto3 doesn’t need to join the merry group of helping each as we can.  Have I missed some meeting that deems who gets our rapt attention.

            No-matter; thanks, snake, for taking the time.

            Mac,  appreciate you lots each and every day – hope the Christmas gift is coming on line soon and hope the troll-traffic finds coal (yep, good old black chunks of burnable stuff) in their stockings.


            • wviw

              you are welcome,,if she had asked for a schematic i would have given her one and i`ll bet ya i would still get thumbs down



              • Thank you for the help, schematic or no. No thumbs down from me. Just glad for some advice.

              • Snake, Good Evening,

                    A ‘noteable’ thing to observe. Go back through the last few days of postings…you’ll ‘see’ a pattern to the ‘thumbs-down’ almost EVERY post – with only a few exceptions – are not given at least ONE thumb and most are recieving exatly ONE thumb down.

                     As it happens I have EXTENISVE knowlegde of IP backtracking and rest assured, if I get any MORE motivated I WILL do exactly that….. 🙂

                @ Anon,

                     Your move…. 🙂

                • Different anon here……My advice is to stop worrying about thumbs up or down and just make whatever point you wish. Everyone gets them.

                • mom to 3 if i knew where you were i would come help get it installed,,or do it for you guys,,,i live in upstate south carolina,,are we anywhere close to each other snake

                • Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name.

        • If you are going to install a wood burning unit NOW before any SHTF situation,please check with your insurance company (if you carry homeowners). They will most likely cut your fire protection unless the installation is done by a bonded contractor and up to their specs. After SHTF insurance may be of less importance to you .

        • You need a triple-walled stovepipe and a roof chimney, a hole saw the diameter of your roof vent, a ladder, and some planning.  In the attic, block off between the rafters where you will put the pipe hole and remove the insulation between the new wood blocking.  Cut the hole in the center of the rafter space.  Run a plumb bob from the inside of the roof through the center of the hole, and drill a hole through the roof at that point.  Go on the roof and drill the larger hole, using the new pilot hole.  Put the chimney cap/vent on the roof, nail it down and flash it correctly.  The top of the roof vent needs to be at least two feet higher than any surrounding roofing.  Do not install on a wood shake roof.  Install the stove inside the house, keeping it 6″ from any wall, and set it on a tile or stone pad.  I would personally put up cement board on the interior wall and floor, then tile over that.  You can get a nice piece of countertop stone, cut it down yourself with a skilsaw and carbide blades, for the floor.  Run the piping up to the roof vent and flange it off for support.

          For ventilation, you need to ensure there is enough fresh air in the house to keep the flames going.  Put a CO monitor in the room.  Don’t dampen the pipe down too much, keep it cooking away and prevent creosote buildup in the piping.

          You will want to check with your permitting authority about the specific code requirements, such as setback from walls, vent height above roofing, pipe diameters, etc.  It’s not difficult.  You can do a through-the-wall pipe if your stove is installed against an exterior wall at a roof gable.


        • To do it right (if you only have a single flue chimney) will be fairly expensive.  I had to buy nearly 40 ft of double walled Metalbestos chimney piping to install my exterior chimney, found it used on ebay, but it was still over $1000, including all the brackets and T to go through the wall.  The only other way would be to have another masonry chimney built, but that would be over $1000 as well.

      43. Off topic, but a good friend of mine just told me he had heard from others that Obama is starting a “fat tax”. Is that true?


        • GregorKlusar, if  thats true Moochelle will surely pay out the ass.

      44. “What will you do when the lights go out”?  Glad I worked for Outward Bound for 10 years in my younger days.  Lots of good experience and training. 

        Back in those days it was fun and exciting.  Then, the ground got hard, the pack got heavy, the mornings seemed colder, and water seemed to take longer to boil.

        Got soft, came in from the cold.  Must admit I love instant hot water, instant heat and instant fire.  Did it once and can easily do it again.  I would just prefer not to have too.  My warm snuggly bed is one of the best inventions ever.

        Oh well, it will be what it will be.  Best ya can do is educate yourself, get some serious skills (yes, you have to get off the couch and go outside) and prep like crazy. 

        When I read a lot of these posts on all these various sites I get concerned for people.  Too much relying on modern technology, not enough skill, inner strength, know how, will, determination, etc. 

        I’m with the posters that refer to us going back to the 1800’s way of life.

        I’m afraid a lot of preppers won’t be able to live without all the new fangled gadgetry. 


      45. When in doubt:  Make out.

      46. The best solution for lights is a 15 watt (or larger) solar panel, small charge controller, deep cycle battery and a few cheap 12 volt RV light fixtures with LED 1157 replacement bulbs. These LED bulbs put out 200-300 lumens which is enough light to navigate your house and do basic chores. The fixtures will cost you about $8.00 each and the bulbs about $10.00 each. If you really want to jazz it up go for a nice ThinLite LED RV fixture. They have models that switch between 480 and 1,600 lumens and a larger model with even higher lumens. All of these draw very little power and a small PVM will be able to keep up with the daily battery drain if you manage the use carefully.  My 55 watt PVM gives me enough to use 2 lights plus a cable modem, router and notebook computer for several hours a day.


        • Harbor Freight Tools has a decent set up for easy money. Sometimes they have 25% off coupons floating around.

          The basic kit includes some 12v flo lights.

          harborfreight dot com/solar-panel-kit-45-watt-68751.html

      47. Electricity is a nice convenience. If you haven’t figured out how to live without it for an extended period….  you’re in trouble.

        I’m hoping my TV works when TSHTF. The zombies in the cities ought to be pretty entertaining.


      48. No more Xbox? Time to break out the Magic cards. Gotta have SOME fun when I’m not gathering firewood and cleaning my firearms for the umteenth time.

      49. For water, one good long term solution is a solar water distiller.

        For heat, something I have recently stumbled across is a soda can solar heater.

        Search youtube for videos for each. Either can be made from scraps for cheap!

        • Bummer. I have no soda cans, only beer cans. I guess I’m screwed.

          • Funny

      50. I have:

        -solar lamp, solar generator, candles, 3 months of food and water and oil lamps on the to buy list. the collapse of the US looks to be at least 6 months away(maybe much longer, but  we should continue the slow decline for at least another 6 months before any crash imo). i figure to complete my prepping by april and when the all of America decides it cant carry the debtload it has put on itself, i’ll start playing defense against those that lose all sense of it and will do anything for food or $20.

        my one shortfall is water supply living in a city. if the water supply goes down for more than a week, i’m in real reouble; but i think there’s a lot of prepared people in that boat. you have to have some real resources to have your own water supply.

        • lena

          one water source is the tank on your toilets,,most hold about three gallons of water if it doesnt have chemical cleaner that you put in is very drinkable,,just a small tip



      51. Hi Daisy,

            T’anks for the article…Excellent work! Also, did NOT know about any intermediate processed sugars, ‘terbinado’ or ‘Sucanat’ whatsoever…an eye-opener, thanks again!

            As a repost of something I posted here previously, a warning relative to the use of portable generators with respect to running deep wells.

           All electric motor’s – of which your pump is onesuch – must accelerate from a standstill to full operational rotational speed. When your pump is being driven by the grid there is no significant loss of voltage on the line when the motor is abruptly ‘energized; by the action of the ‘sending unit/pressure switch’ when it clicks iinto the “on” position. The reason for this is the ‘mass’ of the generators which power the grid itself. Same have a large momentum and any drop on the lines to your pump are purely the result of “Joule Heating/Losses’. 

             On the other hand, a small, postable unit has only the mass/momentum associated with it’s own rotation and as such, when the ‘switch’ is engaged there IS a distinct effect on the generator’s activity. Anyone whose ever been near to any such when the switch was flipped has heard the attendant ‘draw-down’ as the motor/generator attemps to adjust to the newly activated load upon it. To be sure a little portable unit can not match the behemoth mass/momentum of those in use at one’s local generating facility.

            Here’s where ‘the rubber meets the road’ so to speak. IF, the generator is too small, then it will be the case that it will ‘draw down’ more than is acceptable and for a longer period. The net effect of this is to allow  the inital ‘start-up’ current through the wiring inside your pump to persist for a longer than normal period of time. The ‘run’ current in an electricsl motor under load is MUCH smaller than the ‘Start-up’ current is! All electrical motors go through a ‘start-up’ period when engaged but the manufacturer selects the dielectric coatings which insulate the windings from each other such that the evolved heat (again, Joule Heating) does NOT lead to premature break-down in the insulatiing material with which the windings are coated. ‘Normal’, grid-fed operation IS a specific design-time consideration when designing such with very specific assumptions.

            Sooo, what we get here – from my previous ‘boots-o-the-ground’ experiance during the ice storms we endured here through Midwest several years ago is this: One must needs use a 5000 watt (surge rated) generator to safely start even a half-horsepower pump motor else the degradation I mention above will occur…relative to repeated start-ups. On a ‘one-time’, emergency basis you may well be able to start your pump thusly WITHOUT damage accruing….just don’t think it ‘s going to allow you to do this repeatedly- it won’t 

             Some several of our neighbors successfully destroyed thier deep-well pumps using the uniquitous Honda ‘Handi-Gens’ to operate thier systems. It all comes down to this…it’s the start up current capacity of your generator which defines the survivability of your DW pump. Those of you who are blessed to have the larger, higher rated pump units – up to roughly 1 HP – are well-advised to not use less than a 5000 Watt ‘run’/6500 watt ‘surge’ rated generator as your motive source involved…we had such a pump and a generator as described and it wore well during the 13 days we were without power….said pump remains operational to this day, undamaged.

        • Ahhh, I CORRECT MYSELF here,

             As another pointed out here previously, it IS possible to ‘rig’ a circumstance where large-value capacitors are emplyed as ‘Starter capacitors’ this circumstance is installable only by a qualified electrician anfd is both specific – not general – and of limited capacity to defer the requisite current inrush. In all other cases the previous posting is applicable.

        • Excellent information!!  I live in Maine and we lose our power for a week at a time once or twice a year from storms.  I have a 5250w surge rated generator, I think it is 6500 max, an it really bogs down when the 220v well pump kicks on.  The lights dim, and if the TV is on, it will actually shut off.  If you need to run anything off 220v, like J1G says, you need at least 5000w, and bigger is better.

      52. Didn’t have fancy stuff like indoor plumbing or electricity when l was a kid. Guess l’ll be fine.

        Virtually all of my preps are based on the premise of life without electricity anyway.

        • Hi Tomahawk,

               Good ‘Preppin’ bud, I fear there are many who are going to be in such a position in the future by no choice of thier own…for those I will pray, life will be hard, if even possible for the unprepared….

          • Well I wasn’t born in the 19th century but I might as well have been. In my early years my family was one of those clans living out in remote Appalachia (eastern TN) in an old cabin.

            I like these modern doodads like TV and computers but they’re not really necessary to me. They’re primarily a source of news, and a means of buying stuff I ordinarily wouldn’t find because most goods dept stores carry anymore are junk.

            SHTF and the power goes out,  I’ll have plenty of things to do. How much entertainment these days is just a means of filling in time you’d ordinarily fill with your life?

            I have over 300 flint tipped and feather fletched hand made arrows ready for when my supply of 5.56 runs out.


            • @ T-Hawk,

                   Truly, a marvelous account! I have sickened of the world as it is…I am wholly convinced that – no matter what – the era of the megaopolisis’s is fAST approaching an End. I have laid plans to relaocate to a more northern clime in the late spring and my intent is to simply vanish into that there. So much in the ‘World as it is’ so exquisitely painful for those who abide in it…I am one such. Neither the internet, nor much of anything which we are so fond of in recent years holds much allure for me, quite the opposite in fact.

                  Anywho, have a ‘Good One’, this eve……

            • I have been wanting to get into a longbow and traditional archery stuff, making the tips is a tricky one, cool beans though bud.

        • Hey Tomahawk..you know those that frown upon those who ‘have’ to use a porta potty every now and then?

          Are they in for an awakening or what??  🙂

          • A porta-potty is still more advanced than what I have LOL. About 6 years ago my wife had back surgery and had to get one of those special toilets with adjustable legs that you fit OVER your regular toilet.

            I cleaned it up and kept it. I found it fit perfectly over an old plastic bucket I had laying around.

            This past july when the storm knocked our power out for 8 days, I dug a hole at the edge of our yard and the woods and cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket. I set the bucket over the hole and the medical toilet on the bucket. It made a very nice latrine. I even set up a couple old tarps around  it for privacy. (We live out in the woods but you never know who might be lurking around.)

            Now was this necessary? No not really, but it’s the little things that make life better. Going out to use my homemade latrine late at night with Miss Mossberg keeping me company, ah yes fond memories.

          • jayjay,

                ‘Erudite wisdom’ if I have EVER heard it…HAHAAahahahaa… 🙂

      53. Here’s a couple places for finding both traditional as well as some “off-the-wall” items… Cheaper than Dirt (it ain’t just about guns folks) and an awesome site I’ve been using for years Cumberlandgeneral.com (Cumberland General Store) canning stuff/stoves & parts/cast iron cookwear/lamps/etc.. Pretty much the stuff grandma had in the kitchen before there was electricity.

      54. For refrigeration look into kerosene or propane powered refrigerators.  Both types of fuel are easily found and store long term.  You can find kerosene fridges can run for a year on about 75 gallons of fuel.  Even longer if you have colder climes and can forgo using it when it’s cold out by making a cold box outside. 

        They’re not cheap, supply and demand and all that so you have weigh how much you need reliable cooling versus other preps.  But for someone who may have a diabetic in their group it could be a matter of life and death in a mid term grid down.  

      55. BULLETS  BEANS AND BIBLES.     and EVERYTHING in between!

      56. WHY YOU WILL NEVER BE FREE.NO ONE WANTS TO GET INVOLVED !Bystander Effect – people watch girl being abducted… AND DO NOTHING !



        • hmmm.  I love cameleons, Or maybe I’ve confused you with another.  In that case, my mistake 😉

        • NinaO,  when you hold up a mirror that forces the “sheeple” to confront their reality….you are gonna piss-sheeple-off!  Good job!  

          Where I live, this guy would have been bleeding on the pavement inside of 10 seconds.  But WE don’t put up with that level of BS around here.

          The Texas hill country may be “redneck” to other parts of the country…but this wouldn’t happen unconfronted here.  

          So where do you really want to live and WHO do want watching your SIX?  Hell, my wife would have sucker-punched him without hesitation.

          • “Everyone makes fun of the redneck until the Zombie Apocalypse.”

            – Daryl Dixon, The Walking Dead 

              • Damn straight Mac, and you know where I’m coming from!

              • I watched Zombieland with Woody Haroldson for the first time last weekend.  Funny, Woody’s character is a ZOMBIE KILLER and his mission is to find just 1 F***ING TWINKIE…and a week prior to watching this movie, America started searching for the last twinkie.

                It’s things like this that reinforce my prepping philosophy.  Thanks God.

          • @Wee&Yen ;0P … can’t hide from you two any where .

            Prep NOW for “Inflation” Preppers … only 29 more days to Death by ILLEGAL PRIVATE BANK OWNED IRS DEBT SLAVE Taxation Hell !

             BUY real physical P.M.’S !

            SILVER then GOLD !

            ~N.O. ;0P

            • Try something simple like Sarah, Ben, Brad, or even horse-with-no-name for your site “handle”.  Never mind, we would still find you.  Put a positive spin-on-it, your “style” has made you famous at SHTF PLAN.  Some might say infamous, but what do the “newbies” know.

              Something you will no doubt appreciate from “Josey Wales”…the old Indian chief was instructed by the forked tongue administration to “persevere-to persevere”:  Classic!

              Last time I checked, no “horny toads” in Montana, so you will have to seek direction by some other less reliable means. 



        • Great post Barn Cat.  With respect to the votive candles:   “Great for weddings, parties, or other occasions”.  The “other occasions” immediately comes to mind on the heels of Daisy’s article.

      57. For refrigeration I saw a simple device anyone can make, especially for the warm and hot days – the pot in the pot cooler. A video here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKgOpJc7Ps



      58. I have always considered electricity to be an unneeded luxury.  I have old school hurricane lamps. Some run on oil, if which I have plenty stored, and some use tea light candles.  I have lots if them stored.  I have 55 gallons of drinking water, band a 75 gallon fish aquarium full if camouflaged water.  West Texas is full of old fashioned windmills that still pump plenty of water.  I know where 3 of them are within walking distance from the house. I do have a Berkey, but have not used it.  Everything else is covered except air conditioning.  Heat is not really an issue for the 10-15 times a year it gets cold enough to freeze water outside.  Also bought a solar battery charger that does AA, C,AAA,and 9 volt batteries if needed.  C-Crane carries them.  

        • Rusty, good preps ….I am originally from West Texas.  My brother who still lives there has an old fashioned windmill on his property. 

           For those not familiar with the way of Texans I would not assume that you can just stroll up and reap the benefits.  Least you might meet the Judge.  First name Taurus, last name Magnum. 

        • Maybe I should clarify what I said about windmills.  West Texas if surrounded by hundreds of miles of “fields”.  Out in the middle of nowhere land you might see a windmill with a stock pond/tank attached.  Non-natives might assume that because it is in the middle of nowhere that its OK to maybe say take a swim in the stock tank.

          Wrong, if it is a working windmill.  Windmills have to be maintained.  They don’t magically keep working on their own.  Which means it and the land are owned by someone.  Many a young persons butt has been peppered with salt peter for trespassing.

          Asking for permission if always way way better.  Also, don’t assume just cuz someone with a working windmill is obliged to “share”.  Most will if you get to know them and ask.  Water in West Texas is a very very precious commodity.  Cost a lot to drill down to that water so windmill owners have quite an investment in them.

          • About windmills,  an old saying whisky is for drinking and water is for fighting.

      59. Congratulations Daisy.  Your latest contribution appears to be gathering steam at several other “monitored sites” as well.  Well on your way to the “walk of fame”.  “Girls gone North”, a wet T-shirt contest in January could produce some quite “pointed” publicity.   Just a thought.

        Okay,  just a “dirty-ole-man”  thought.  What can I say…I still have a pulse and “my better half” is out spending “better than half our money” as I type.  But not to worry…everything purchased is ON SALE, whether we actually need it or not.   Necessity cannot hold-a-candle to “I got it on sale”.  We could use the candles, but I can assure you that won’t be-in-the-bags”.

        Again, congrats on the article and feel free to ignore the rest.



      60. To everyone who chimed in about the Berkey and Aquarain, thanks for  your input.  I’ll look into both of them.   FBP, thanks for the tip about berkeys possibly becoming impossible to get.  At the last 2 gun shows here in Memphis, there was a vendor selling berkeys; the next gun show here is Dec. 22-23 so maybe he’ll be back, although I’m going to try to get something online before then if possible.  in the meantime, I’ll pick up some extra filters for my Katadyn from Bass Pro.    Kindle, you brought up in an interesting point about a prepper being “socially selfish”, whatever that’s supposed to mean.  Let me also address your other point about “hoarding”.  All my life I have heard the two words “stockpiling” and “hoarding” get confused as to their definitions and it burns me to no end.   It’s always been my understanding that “stockpiling” is the acquisition of life’s basic necessities for yourself and your family in order to survive natural disasters and other adverse situations; any curveball that life throws at all of us on occasion.   “Hoarding”  is supposedly the  acquisition of a certain good or service that is in high demand by the public by corporations in order to raise the price and make windfall profits on said good or service.   This term “socially selfish” sounds like another PC, socialistic term to me.   As preppers, each and every one of us are individuals.  For those of us with families, we are responsible for the well-being of our families and no on else.   When we stockpile supplies for ourselves and our wives and/or children, we are simply doing what our families and most certainly God expects us to do. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER PEOPLE AND/OR THEIR FAMILIES,  ONLY OUR OWN!  WE ARE INDIVIDUALS, NOT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES FOR ANYONE TO SPONGE OFF OF!   Sorry, but i had to vent;  i get so damned sick of hearing other people saying someone else is responsible for their well-being; sometimes i actually throw up over it.   There’s nothing wrong with stockpiling suppplies for yourselves and your families;  it’s the right thing to do and I don’t even care if I offended some libturd.   As I’ve posted on here in other articles, anyone who comes to my place to take my preps by force will definitely get their day ruined!  Kindle, thanks for the link to that article.   This was something I just had to respond to.   What we preppers do is stockpiling, not hoarding.   i just don’t care what the nonpreppers think.   Braveheart 

        • YO, BH….’Wall of Text’, Dude! 🙂

        • Braveheart, I agree with your view.  Stockpiling is not hoarding.

          • That not what your local Community Action Group will call it after SHIF.

      61. Hey, this is a bit off topic, but I thought everyone should take note- -now we have mass killings with a bow and arrow. Whaddaya wanna bet they’ll be tossing around a new idea about registering compound bows, or restriction like guns, or some shit next? After all, they can say a bow is a deadly weapon now too!


        • @ Sixpack.  Son kills father whom is a professor at the college while classroom of students watch in horror.  Father is shot in the head with an arrow, which did not kill him and son finishes off the job and then stabs himself over and over again to commit suicide.  This was before he killed his father’s girlfriend brutally, which she was also a teacher at the college.   Wymoing will be the absolute last state to restrict any firearms or other weapons such as compound bows.  This has been flying around the news in Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana because two college instructors are dead, like something from a bad movie and because it was a family thing in which the son went absolutely ballastic.  His father had been involved with his girlfriend since the son lost his mother a few years ago.  The father was 56, his girlfriend was 42, and the son was 25.  Craziness in a peaceful location like Wyoming. 

      62. Well what about clothes washin’? No power for the washer, no power for the well to get it to the washer. Summertime comes and you’re outside sweatin’ and workin, doin’ chores. Gonna go to bed smellin’ twangy? Gotta wash that scuzzy butt somehow…….. lets here some ideas on what you’ll do. Go!

        • POd P

          a 5 or 6` watering trough galvainzed,,, from tractor supply or a feed store on blocks with a small fire inder one end,,use used bath water to flush your tiolets


          • I have two tubs from TSC, two plungers, a washboard from Uncle Lee’s, and home made detergent that does not supply a lot of suds.

            Lots of garbage bags and Kitty Litter (Dollar Tree and Dollar General)for the 5 gallon bucket converted into a potty using one of the toilet seats from our baths.  My precious water will not be used to flush a toilet.

            Sponge baths anyone???  Tons of body wash stored, soaps, baby wipes, etc.



            • justoneguy that tells me i`m getting thru,,even to the jerks,,hahahaha  i love it snake

            • jayjay

              i wouldnt waste my percious water flushing my toilets either,,but you  could do that, and i have,,,but today i dont have a shortage of fresh water either,,,


              • Consider yourself fortunate..we had to travel 175 miles to get 30 gallon drums…twice!!

                Those provide us with 600 gallons and another 100 gallons in juice jugs(yes, we drink a lot of juice here :-)), and plan on using those drums for water catchment when emptied.

                Peace and may God protect and bless you all….jayjay

        • When I was at OB we would shuck our closthes and dive into the nearest river, lake, stream, etc.  Used river sand to scrub with or Dr. Bonner’s bio degadeable soap.  We always made a point to stop whenever we found water to do our cleaning.

          One of the funniest memories I have is being on a private trip and all of us being butt naked in the lake.  Unbeknown to us a deer had come along and taken a liking to one of my smelly friends clothes on the bank.  He noticed and jumped out to give chase.  Seered into my memory banks is my butt naked friend chasing a deer down to get his clothes back/

          Moral of the story;  sweat is basically salt.  Deer and others critters love salt.  Never leave your pack or clothes unattended.  I had a hole chewed in a pack by a Marmot while I stopped to take a leak.

          • That would be clothes not closthes and unbeknowst.

          • @ kindle,

                Unbeknown to us a deer had come along and taken a liking to one of my smelly friends clothes on the bank.  He noticed and jumped out to give chase.  Seered into my memory banks is my butt naked friend chasing a deer down to get his clothes back


            LOL, that is an amusing image indeed. 🙂

        • Evening again PO’d,

              Hey, FWIW, consider ALWATS keeping around a bunch a the ol’ BORAX, 40 mule team launfry booster…. the stuff is amazing and has maor euses than ‘Carter has little pills’ so to speak. As a starter, it is a laundry booster which allows soap to actually clean clothes in the ‘hardest’ of water…and anything which allows clothes to be more easily cleaned means that the total amount of wotk done thereon is reduced quite a bit.

               Beyond that, it’s utterly antifungal, bacteriostatic (inhibits the replication/growth of bacteria) is an amazing fire suppressor (the only solid fire suppressant recommended for ‘nuclear fires’…Yup, Chernobyl …hundreds of tons dumped in to suppress both the fire and the radiation) when wood is treated with same it can be burned with an Oxy-Acetylene torch…right up until the torch is turned off at which point all active flame instantly ceases, leaving only a smoldering area, yada, yada, yada….you get the picture. It’s one of ‘those’ things I fully expect to ‘lay-up’ on by the TON before it’s all said and done.

        • PO’d ~

          We went several months here without a washing machine and the laundromat is such a long drive that it wasn’t really feasible to go every week.  So, we did our laundry sort of off grid.

          I have a good source of water so even if I had to haul it, I’m good there.  I use the bathtub for washing and a big bucket for rinsing.  I modified a clean unused toilet plunger by poking one hole through the rubber of it so that it doesn’t have suction.  Use that to agitate your laundry.  Also, if it’s warm enough get in  with clean feet and walk around on it (great job for kids if you have them).

          Presoaking in a borax/soap mixture helps a lot.

          Use a sturdy brush to scrub the clothing.

          Rinse well in the  bucket.

          Invest in a sturdy industrial janitor’s bucket for wringing stuff out.  It won’t work anywhere near like a washing machine spin cycle but it spares some wear and tear on your hands.  

          Hang your clothes someplace that you don’t mind getting wet – no matter how much you wring them manually they still drip.

          Takes approximately 24-48 hours for a load to dry near the fire.

        • there are at least 2 types of manually operated clothes agitators available… 1 is rotated by hand-crank 1 direction then reversed, the other is plunger-style… both have roughly 5gal capacity… we have the hand-crank version and a mini-washer which is a 5gal bucket on top of the 120v mechanism which runs the agitator in the bucket…  (note: no power means no prepping with solar panels – bad juju…lol jus’sayin’)

      63. I try to have a short and long term plan when it comes to any complete shut down of a system or service.

        But I think its an evolving issue when your in it

      64. Go through the motion of making babies without making any.

      65. i have lived numerous times and for long periods of time without the luxury of electricity, indoor plumbing, running water etc…and adaption/adjustment to losing it now is just not a big deal..my family just keeps on keeping on…we have spent the last several years preparing for having to live life as we used to live. people who have never known going without are the ones who are gonna be in for trouble and a world of hurt-mostly because their lifestyles dont allow them to even think about it…and those who do cringe and are unaccepting to possible changes they can make to make their lives easier in hard times.

        • Couldn’t agree with you more.  I worry about people relying too much on the the luxaries you describe.  What are people going to do if they have to bug out and leave most of their preps behind.  Remote BOL are nice but what if you have to leave it?   

      66. To Everyone.  Once again, polar earthquakes predict large earthquakes to come.  Just had a 6.4, or 6.5 depending on the seismic station in Vanautu.  Originally the forecast was for a 6.5+ by Dec. 1, which happened.  The more earthquakes in the polar area occurred, extending the deadline for more earthquakes of bigger size.  On post # 891973, Nov.27, 2012, at 8:58 PM, on the article Micro-Doc: The Madness………………. about 1/3 of the way down on the comments was given the location of Vanautu to look out for by Dec.3.  Once again polar earthquakes forecast coming bigger earthquakes.   The system works over and over again and shows that earthquakes can be predicted. 

        Still a very dangerous period until Dec. 12 for much bigger earthquakes for the areas I gave on the comment section for Nov.27.  Please anyone going to these areas or living in these areas, beware and be alert. 

        • Tectonics…don’t want to live with it…Can’t/Won’t live without it.  Thanks for the diligence BI.  Something is “brewing” and the potential while unpredictable overall is none-the-less about to “bite-some-of-us” in the proverbial ass.  I wish more people understood the potential  of extrodinary “pressure” that has been accumulating in some MAJOR fault/plate zones.

          You can choose to ignore signs and statistics, but in Vegas, that is the “bread-n-butter” of a losing bet.  The “house wins” and in this case, many will lose big.   If only “money” would be the ultimate loss.   

          But then again, FEMA has proven to be quite USELESS in catastrophic “natural” disasters.  I know I feel better.  My concern is, others actually believe that government will “save them”.  You can’t save everyone, but you can save some.   



          • @ yental.  The good news is that this pattern finding of the past still works and after a certain area in the polar region gets hit, their is still a signature location in which a bigger earthquake occurs in the same place(s).  This means that at least there has not been a massive drift of the mechanisms under the crust, that would indicate total chaos.   Bad news is that the intensity  and frequency is increasing of these earthquakes.  There are 4 places that can wallop the US and the economy, Cascadia, San Andreas, New Madrid, and The Caribbean plate with tsunami destrction. 

            After that 7.8 earthquake north of the Cascadia fault, this should have triggered the overdue fault, it didn’t by about Thanksgiving.  This means that the Cascadia fault is locked and under more pressure than a 8.9 in size, more like a 9.0-9.3.  The San Andreas is probably going to be somewhere in the range of 8.1-8.4 WHEN it breaks.  The New Madrid fault is probably the least under pressure of the 4 and probably has enough pressure to equal a 7.5-8.2.  This though would be magnified though because of the old dense rock under everyone.  The Caribbean plate, the eastern section probably low 8 to high 8 range, which because of the Caribbean waters not being too deep will produce very large tsunamis around the region, which will decrease in size the further you go away from the source of the earthquake. 

            This is reminding me of the last sequence of earthquakes which lead to the bigger 7.8 in Canada.  I use that 15 day window, and that would be Dec.12 for the last South Sandwich Islands earthquake on Nov.27.  The other windows were today, and Monday.  I would still be on alert as you said, the crust seems to becoming more active.   Anything that large in the US could be the final straw for the collapse of the economy. 

      67. I see lots of references and links for Berkey water filters, but none for this:


        I have done business with this outfit, and found them to be reputable.  Great product and price.  No, I have no affiliation with them.

        An earlier posting referenced a water filter from Cheaper than Dirt.  They have a filter (item CAMP-352) that is made by Monolithic (linked above).

        Hope this helps.

      68. There are a lot of things not mentioned in this article that would get you by without electricity!

      69. While I do recognize the downsides to relying on a generator, you can rely on a generator using your supplies way longer than the few hours listed above if you do one thing:  Turn it on only long enough for your necessities.  Been through several blackouts without electricity.  We turned on our generator only long enough to resupply our water needs and make sure the freezers stayed frozen.  So 5 gallons of gas could last you days if you “budget” it. 

        As a side note…practice living your life in the dark.  Turn off all your lights at night and find things in the dark … gotten so I can go anywhere in the house and find the candles/matches within two minutes without bumping into anything. 

      70. Greetings Everyone!

        Great posts by just about everyone here!

        Many thanks for the sites posted here by everyone!

        Entropy is the problem that the world faces(I suspect that it was just one of the MANY causes behind the Great flood described in Scripture).Since just about ALL current governments are about on a equal standing as to tech,information and ability,the only difference is the level of selfishness displayed v.s. the size of the country.This “slagging down’ is what causes them to act in such an irrational manor.They(and TPTB!) refuse to accept that “times up” for the current way of running things.They would rather kill most of the 99%(which by the way won’t solve our current problems) to keep their current setup.BUT its time for THE CHANGE to happen!No matter how hard they and whatever “Eminence Gris’ try to avoid it,it’s coming.On Time and on Target.There’s no longer any  place for them.We here however,just might get through to the future.It gonna be hard,VERY,VERY HARD.A magnitude worse than we have ever known.If what the scriptures warn us about becomes reality,it gets MUCH worse before it gets better.By prepping however,we take the first steps to get past the present fears and tears and make it to the future.Whatever that future is,only God knows. And that’s the secret that TPTB would sell their soul for.Not that they would change,but they would know how much party time they had left!

        Best to All,

        hope you have your “towel” on hand…



        • A-fur-ma-tive…


      71. Informative article, thank you Daisy. I enjoyed the blog as well. I also visited Shabby Chic’s blog for the first time. Being a welder I got several ideas from your blog… In all reality,  I guess it’s just a matter of a few minutes to make something functional aesthetically pleasing as well.

        There was a lot of technical and informative information provided today; I’m still trying to digest/understand the Piper Michael link, but I even read that… even though I spun the bearings on a few brain cells.

        Thanks to all!


      72. Evening Solar Report,

            There is little to note this evening; No significant excursions, no filamentary phenomena (filament lift-offs) noted. 11623 and 11625 appear to be roughly stable in aspect and magnetic complexity. No other regions on the solar surface merit consideration. The level of 0.5-8.0 angstrom X-flux activity is bouncing off the bottom of the plot at immeasureably small levels.


            At approximately 04:00 hours a new GRB has been monitored and recorded. The real-time GRB monitor site has listed this but given the recent charcter of the event, at this time no light-curves have been logged with the SLC repository. Until that time we will be effectively blind as to the magnitude (presumed) of the event. Typically, the initial release of such is delayed by 10-16 hours from the time the event is initially logged by the SWIFT platform to – understandably – allow for initial data collection.

      73. It is well and good to be ready for any situation which may come your way….I believe in being prepared for …..anything. But, you must not allow “prepping” to overshadow your actual in time life……LIVE, LAUGH, LOVE and cherish those who are close to you…be they family, lover, friend or community…..do not lose yourself so much in the “preparing” that you lose sight of what is MOST important…..LOVE is all that matters…it is all that you take with you …..make the most of it…..


      74. Alex Jones AJ – QUOTE : 

        “Let the NWO ZOG U.N. DHS GESTAPO – Declare Military Martial Law – Occupy Once Free AmeriKa and then “Rape” AmeriCan Women Girls mothers daughters sisters wives for 10 years a Full Decade before organizing a Patriot Revolution !”


          WTF ??? ;0p



        definition : shill [shil] Show IPA Slang. noun 1. a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc. 2. a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

        ~N.O. ;0P

        • I’m not a big fan of Alex Jones but Susanne Posel has no credibility.  She plagiarizes her articles from small bloggers as well as bigger names in alternative media.  

          This was decisively proven in two seperate exposes by Jurriaan Maessen – link to follow.

          She defended herself on “Before It’s News” by saying Jurriaan’s article was in retaliation for her piece “outing” Alex Jones with regard to Stratfor….however…

          I looked it up because I was curious.  Jurriaan’s first article accusing her of plagiarism was published on the 21 of November and Susanne’s Stratfor article didn’t come out until the 26th.

          Susanne and Pete Santilli have some type of vendetta with Jones – not sure what started it, but I wouldn’t believe a word about Alex Jones from those two without independent confirmation.  

          I’m not debating your premise, just your sources.

      75. Morning Solar Report.

            Solar activity was low through the evening hours with only a single mid B-class excursion occuring. The most interesting phenomena currently  is that the SECCHI beacon signal has apparently been delivering relatively low qulaity signals such that only now with the signal quality returning do we see an adequte picture of the upcoming return of the as yet apparently NOT senescent spot groups  NOAA 11610, 11611 and 11613. These spot groups were not identifiably still significantly active over the previous 48 hours in the previous available imaging.

             It is now the case that the ‘skyshine’, which is the light ‘backsattered from the coronasphere is showing significant illumination along the eastern edge of the solar disk extending radially outwards significantly in two locations, one northerly, one southern, these two coronal areas  do correspomnd to the current locations (Latitudinal) indentied in the most recent SECCHI imaging for 11610 and 11611.

            The effective return will follow the order of 11610 in the southeast, followed by 11611 in the northeast, then by 11613 again in the southheast. A new, previously unenumerated small region is aapearing in the northeast at this time at the effective limit of visibilty. This group is not expected to be significant.


            At the time of this posting the light-curve for the new GRB recorded through the evening hours has not been logged into the SLC depository. It is worth noting that at roughly 07:30 UTC this morning a distubance was seen affecting the Kiruna, Gakona, and Boulder magnetometers producing as much as a 75 nT deviation over the course of a 3 hour period. Inasmuch as none of the relevant solar wind variables werre notably affected, the genitive source of that disturbance is unclear. Planetary magnetometers have since returned to nominal traces. It is worth noting that simultaneously the observed electron flux as monitored by two of the GOES  platforms were also seen to have significant departures from the norm concurrent with the deflections occuring with the aforementioned magnetometers.


      76. Thank you Daisy for this.

      77.  ”   As it stands, there have been 20 earthquakes today, 207 earthquakes in the past 7 days, 822 earthquakes in the past month and 17,474 earthquakes in the past year. –Guardian”


      78. What will you do when the lights go out?

        Sit in the dark, of course. ;0)

        @ Mac

         Nice bag of tricks. 

        Interesting enough, I spent the good part of this weekend in the dark. Connected only to the outside world by a cell phone. How wonderful. There is nothing like camping to give you a raw experience of what you need and to test the skills you have acquired.  In my realm a good 4w dr truck, a  heavy duty chainsaw, a propane burner, sharp knife, a gun and a big frying  pan is all I need. This weekend a fellow hunter killed three hogs. Butchered them out. Smoked  some of the meat and we all ate fine. What we call Pulp Wooding, is going to get firewood and to have four trucks and a couple of chainsaws,  a cord of wood is Quickly Accumulated. Yes, and quickly burned. What some might call, arduous work is just another day in the woods to us. I will kid you not that we do have equipment that makes life easier but it is like a preppers paradise.

         I did pass along the Pick 7. Accepted with a grain of salt.  Not much conversation and filed into memory banks for future reference.

        @ Kentucky Mom. Had some of your fine, mountain spring water. From the home of the original “Red Neck”. Smooooooooooth. ;0)

        Life is good.

        • Hiya Slingshot,

              JUST one quick clarification here….”Spring Water…or Mountain Dew”? 🙂

      79. Finding a way to get gasoline from your automobile fuel tank without damaging the vehicle would be very useful. Storing gasoline is problematic. Here in South Florida not having power for a couple of weeks is always possible during hurricane season. 

      80. Off topic:

        arghhhh…Timmy G. is all over the Sunday morning talk shows.  He repeated uses the term “spending savings” instead of cuts.  We all know what that means.

        We are so f’d.  It hurts my head to try and follow his logic.  How many times can we use “savings from ending the wars”.  Hasn’t that already been used to off-set something else?  no hope no hope no hope no hope….must step up preps…

      81. I have a very simple way to start a fire some of you may not know about. All you need is 2 things. Some steel wool and a 9v battery ( the square one ). Tear a small piece of the steel wool off and touch it to the 9v battery terminals. You will notice the steel wool heats up to red hot almost instantly. Have some tender ready and put the red hot steel wool in it and blow till you see fire. Then start adding bigger pieces until you have a nice big warm  fire. I’m sure a lot of you know about this…but for those of you that don’t know….now you do.    :>)           Plus steel wool is dirt cheap and has many other uses besides as a fire starter. I recommend everyone have a good supply of steel wool on hand…as well as 9v batteries.  Some good knowledge to have when the lights go out.

      82. Check out victory gasworks. Although expensive, they have wood gasifiers that run anything from trucks to your house and runs off wood or other fibrous material.  I believe they can even make it EMP proof.  On another site, salt-n-pepper.com, it is listed on other related sites on the home page here, they used liquid parafin to make 100 hr candles.  If I was going to keep gas for something it would be seveal gallons plus 2 cycle oil to run my chainsaws.

      83. :>)

      84. good artical, the problem with people is they have to be inside playing video games,and watching reality tv. there is a lot more to do that rot in front the tv. yesterday we fished and cooked our catch on open fire using cast iron cookware as this is part of normal routine. our well is run by solar pumps from robinson solar, best money I ever spent. we garden, build our own funiture,and make our own repairs on just about everything. the point is being self sufficent is a must. no this did’nt happen over night this has been going on for over twenty years and it took a lot of learning from mistakes but in the end the pay off is outstanding with a big fat  zero debt, 25 acres of hay field and 40 acres of hunting and fishing we are having a blast being mostly self suffcient! 

      85. i’ve chosen to do WITHOUT electricity and have planned accordingly

      86. Funny, i all the preceding comments I’ve seen almost nothing about the biggest luxury that is afforded to us by electricity – instant hot water !


        I for one would find hot water to be the only thing I would absolutely not want to do without.

        Short of a water jacket around a wood stove, what are others going to do about hot water when it’s 20 deg. outside…

        • Tom, ‘instant hot water’ can only be provided with special fittings and few of us have that resource. Hot tap water, though, is generally found in every household with the power to heat the water. If the power source is removed (grid down or gas line cut off), hot water will be in a short supply unless you live in Zone 8 or Zone 9 (or a tropical region). A solar-powered hot-water tank might be your answer but it is really worth the expense and energy of storing hot water?

          Grid down, water will need to be heated in most households and as you mentioned, a wood stove, a wood cook stove, or any outdoor cooking set-up could provide the means to heat up water. We have had to go this route before in a 5 day grid-down blizzard. Routines change but we were fine.

          Just like Daisy pointed out in this post, learn to adapt!!

        • My hot water has been propane for many years.  Have 3 -500 gallon tanks, 2 of which I only keep in reserve and never use.  We use about 250-300 gallons a year, so I figure I’ve got 3-4 years worth, depending on when the re-supply is cut off.

          I do plan to switch to solar hot water in the near future to cut that propane use down to 100gal/yr  ( cooking ).

          Backup, I got a nice stainless steel water heater tank, and had a local welding shop put a 5″ stainless “flue” up the center of it ( like a typical gas water heater ), and I plan to build a wood fire box under it, then plumb it into the house water lines, and connect to a flue in the basement.  Won’t be “on demand” in that I’d have to build a fire in the firebox before use, but it would sure beat heating in a open pot.

      87. Back To The Basics.   The 1800’s basics that is.

         That is/was my SHTF plan as I started on this prepping journey over 10 years ago.  Plan to live as though you are being thrown back to the time without automobiles, tractors and petrol, and definitely no electricity.  That was my beginning point.  It started with thinking about my water source and how to transport it from a “reliable” spring and/or creek.  Problem is my spring is 700 ft. down the mountain and the creek is three times that.  If carried by hand it would consume most of the days available calories just bringing up the drinking and cooking water; nevermind the washing and bathing gallons.   My solution:  Horses.

         Not everyone has, or can afford, the requirements to maintain a horse.  But, water, clean potable water is a must for long term survival.  Besides the food storage, we started buying up candles, butane lighters, stick matches and then oil lanterns and lamps.  We may not have enough illumination to read by, but we can see how to get thru the house in the dark.  With all the work that would need to be done in a days time, without all the modern conveniences, we expect to be ready for bed shortly after the chickens roost anyway.  So as the cock crows, we’re ready to begin another day of living life as our great, great grandparents did.

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