The Reality of Survival: “Forget Good Guys and Bad Guys… The Prepared Guys Win”

by | Jul 21, 2014 | Emergency Preparedness, Selco | 327 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The following article has been generously contributed by Selco of the SHTF School web site. For those who have never seen Selco’s work, he’s the real deal. He was there in the 1990’s when his city in the Balkans was surrounded by a hostile army. From one day to the next life as he and those around him knew it had changed drastically. The media, of course, told people that everything would be fine. But As Selco highlighted in a previous article, the reality of collapse was brutalPeace and stability very quickly turned to war and madness. He details his experience in his One Year in Hell survival course. In the article below, Selco shares his views on what it means to survive when your entire way of life has been cut off from the rest of the world. 

    Do you want to know what it’s really like when it hits the fan? Then keep reading.


    Survival Among Humans
    By Selco

    TV news and internet are covered with headlines like “shocking, captured Iraqis beheaded” or “they are killing everyone on their way” and “prisoners executed” and similar.

    And folks who watch and comment on the news and videos who still live in a “normal” world without this kind of crazyiness going on, are shocked of course.

    First comments are that those people and groups who are doing that are animals and they need to be “bombed to stone age”, or “they are not deserving better anyway” and then goes “they are all same there, let them kill each other” and similar.

    While I would definitely like to see that fanatics getting “eradicated” there, there are more things that should be considered.

    Most of the folks are not going to watch video of that violence, because it is too much for them (like this video that “promotes” ISIS), they will change channel, or simply open the page with news from the “celebrity world.”

    People do not want to watch or think about bad things, people want to forget that, and yes, at the end there comes again that famous “it cannot happen to us” idea.

    • Do you really think that when (not if) SHTF events would be much different in your part of the world?
    • Do you think that when collapse happens, you and people around you in your town will be somehow able to organize food distribution, security and safety for residents, and all those criminals and sick bastards will somehow disappear, and there is going to be new better society?
    • Are you under the influence of movies and you think that good guys win almost always and that there is justice and sense in everything?

    I hope you do not because I highly doubt anything like this is going to happen anywhere.

    Forget good guys and bad guys. Prepared guys win, they can be good or bad, or both.

    Problem is in the fact that simply too many people are waiting for S. to hit the fan so they can go out and play their own version of God. Just ask yourself this question: Who is more experienced living in place without any law, criminals or regular folks?

    Criminals, sick folks, small Napoleons, guys who suddenly think that they have solution for building new society without including morale in story…

    There are guys who wait for SHTF to go out and rule, to take your food, enslave you, recruit your older kids, or to take your wife maybe for fun.

    Maybe how and when everything happens in your neighbourhood would be different when SHTF then in those news articles that we talking about, but lot of things gonna be the same, lot of people, not enough resources, and fight for power.

    It is often hard to imagine for regular people how nasty other humans can become. If you have been to prison, war or deal a lot with criminals you know better.

    And again, I am taking this from my own experience. Again.

    One day I had job, family, car, restaurants, cinema, girlfriends, I was listening Guns n Roses and was angry about last album of Metallica. Life was nice and good to me, I had problems but they were in the range of am I lazy to go and rent video tape, or just spent afternoon reading something.

    Then BAM!

    I suddenly realized that I am living among guys who are finding amusement in taking women and teenage girls to “rape prisons”, or kill for fun and not for survival. I suddenly realized that I was living all the time among whole bunch of weird sick folks who when SHTF just went out to have fun.

    And yes, I heard and read many times “they are just different down there, they are all the same, let them kill each other, they are different.”

    And I am sure that if tommorow SHTF in Sweden, there s gonna be folks who gonna write “oh, leave them, they are animals anyway, not like we here, they are different.“”

    It is the easy answer. It feels good to think like that.

    But forget that, forget about image of “we are nice and decent folks here, and it is impossible to happen to us, these kind of atrocities.”

    Be prepared.

    Whenever someone I know tells me about bad situation here something like “OH, it is gonna be OK, it is not gonna happen to us, situation will be better,” in that same moment I get a strong urge to go out and buy more ammo.

    Or whenever someone says to me “do not worry, we have system here, they gonna take care of everything,” I feel like I am gonna throw up.

    Screw the system, you need to build your own system.

    It is like people live in their own little pretty house. Outside you have monsters knocking on windows looking at the people inside but they look away. Facing reality is uncomfortable and most believe monsters never come in. Bad news is that closing your eyes does not make you invincible. You are just blind and more vulnerable.

    Lesson here is, do not discount what you can learn from ongoing crisis half way around the world. I never expected people could turn into monsters all around me so fast, I adapted and survived, but you have chance today to understand this and be prepared for this.

    Discuss this article at the SHTF School forums or in the comments below.

    You can follow Selco’s story at SHTF School and learn how he survived one year in hell


    More Excellent Reading From Selco:

    A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone

    Advice From A Collapse Survivor: “RUN!” From Major Cities

    Collapse Reality: “If I Had to Be an Animal, I Was an Animal. It Was About Survival.”



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      1. Selco has been there, take good notes…

        • Yes, this is the point where it will get really Fun. The tides turn, and it is no longer the person with the most money, the biggest house, the fanciest car. Those items will become their burdens, and they no longer can defend any of them. Those who are street smart, cunning, and with brawn will set the law of who wins and who loses. Those who can survive even a short trip from point A to B without getting molested. It will begin with shopping in Groups as you will have more safety in numbers. Dress down gray man will be the uniform of the day. You wanna sport your Gucci hand bag with matching heels? Your Mercedes? Your gated residence with a pool? And there is NO Rule of Law. Yes, Lots and Lots of Ammo. You may shoot a few hundred rounds a day for suppression to get over to the next block or back home. Lots and Lots of high capacity Magazines. Survival skills and moving stealth will prolong your life.

          • The day is drawing near where men will soon realize that our country is indeed w/out rule of law and our lives are becoming endangered. We are being forced to react, so will we adapt and change to the destruction we see or will we wither and get crushed? Once we come face to face with the need to react in ways we never believed possible, It will be a turning point like an epiphany. Make no mistake,We will soon be tested and if we dont adapt we may not survive. Prepare the mind for what is soon to knock at each of our doors.

          • WWHTI: If you think the rich guy with the most money, big house, and fanciest car, is NOT prepped, and prepared for SHTF, mentally, physically, and psychologically, think again.

            The rich are different.

            They are different because they think differently; and more than that, they have the means to purchase everything necessary to hold on to their possessions and protect themselves and their family from all comers.

            They didn’t achieve the status they have because they were stupid. They are strategic thinkers and they are comfortable taking calculated risks: because they prepare well in advance for them. They are prepared for you. Seek out the rich at your own risk.

            They likely have more food, water (including well), more guns, and more ammo than the average Prepper, who themselves are well ahead of the Sheeple. In many, many cases, the rich are survivors themselves who have endured the horrors of war and are fully capable of killing anyone deserving of death.

            They and their family members, and their friends who will band together, are most likely combat veterans,and LEO’s, well trained and skilled in the art and horrors of war. The rich will not be an easy target.

            The windows of their homes have been replaced with Guerrilla Glass III which is stronger than steel (and withstands 50 caliber). Their antique wood doors have been replaced with steel doors, but unless and until you put your hands on them you would never know the difference. By then it will be too late for you and anyone with you.

            Their properties are posted for “No Trespassing” and that “Intruders will be considered armed and dangerous.” The security wall around their main residence is carefully measured at 60 feet to fall within the acceptable distance historically allowed by English Common Law, as the appropriate distance at which a homeowner can legally shoot an intruder. Climb the wall and you will be shot in the head trying to get over.

            Their fences are surrounded by Jumping Cholla cactus, so if you do manage to get over, you will wish you had not. The pain from just one needle is excruciating. Let me emphasize that: EXCRUCIATING.

            Those wine tasting rooms in their McMansions that will hold 2000 bottles of the finest vintage? They likely hold 1000 Molotov cocktails waiting for delivery to gangs of trespassers. I mean how many bottles of Crystal or
            Dom Perignon (74 or 78)champagne does one need in a 2000 bottle room?

            They probably have the best technology in laser sights and night vision goggles, backed by 762, and 50 caliber rounds. This does not include the custom 223 Gatling guns positioned on their German Steel Roof system that will repel any attempt at setting a fire. Nor does it include the electronic fencing which will give the rich advance warning to your approach.

            And those gated Communities? Those are the bases of the rich, most of who are armed. They WILL organize. They are already organized for Community issues. To get to the richest guy with the biggest house on the hill, you will have to get through a couple hundred of his armed neighbors.

            Those items will become YOUR burden when SHTF. CATI 🙂

            • Exactly

            • LOL On this site and many others, I read disparaging statements toward people with substance, and how they will be easy targets for people of “street smarts”. And yes, there are those certain ones who will be easy prey, but do you know who they are and are not? Until the crash of 2008-2009, a couple of the neighbors were amongst these easy prey but not now.

              I grew up very poor on a small working farm, but I joined the military, studied and worked to earn multiple degrees. So, now after many years of hard and smart work, I have assets and may be considered upper middle class or better by some. Does that make me your target? If it does, read on.

              You see, since the cold war, I have been prepped for collapse, trained in numerous forms of combat tactics, and slowly stockpiled 80 firearms and countless tens of thousands of rounds. Quietly, I and my friends trained with IDPA, IPSC, Nat’l Match and other Combat Masters and High Masters of the shooting sports. Gunsite, onPoint Tactical and other professional courses have earned our monies, and we earned their skills and hardened ours.

              We may gather at the golf clubs or share a nice wine on the deck by the pool on a Saturday evening, and you may see us driving Audi’s and Benz’s or several varieties of SUV’s with our families, but if you think we are easy prey while dressed in our Polo’s and slacks, think again! Ever one of us to the man and woman is personally armed in some fashion, and many of us on the “block” possesses in our autos some variety of short barreled AR or SMG in a compact case or specially modified back seat compartment/s.

              We are polite doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, police captains, professors, etc, etc, but we know what may be waiting around every turn of life. And, we are prepared! Food, fuel, supplies, guns, ammo, special gear, high tech detection systems, you name it. Each neighbor has their special purpose gear, and one owns an older OH-6 helo with the weapons mounts for his special toys.

              We meet each quarter to discuss “neighborhood watch”…LOL, that’s our code for “crisis response and management”. We have plans for closing our private road, 24 hour security monitoring via high tech cameras with night vision and FLIR, and a host of similarly equipped weapons for night defense. If it is determined our position is no longer defensible, we have a couple of mountain homes by a lake that has prepositioned supplies and can house our group.

              Many may think we are soft targets just waiting for the picking, but we can assure you, when it hits the fan, we plan to defend our families with everything at our disposal. And because we have been blessed, we can do a lot of things many street thugs will never expect, and maybe do it while wearing our tennis attire.

              • Mr j. Gibbs PH.d, I would like to ask you one thing. Have you or anyone one in your team been in a real firefight when someone else is trying to kill you and you look to your buddy and his life’s blood is pouring out of his body? Half your team will shit there pants and freeze ,some will simply shut down. I’ve seen it and I’m highly trained,so with all your high speed stuff you still don’t know what’s going to happen. But if I was a betting man I would say another trained unit would be sipping your wine at the end of the day. I hope not just don’t get to cockey.

              • I don’t really agree with this at all. There is a big difference between people who made their own money and people that didnt. Sharks are sharks and they will survive weather rich or poor. Most people who are considered wealthy really aren’t. If the means of their income stopped tomorrow they would never be able to regain what they had. Their money was made off of opportunity and circumstance and not from Ideas and hard work. Most “Rich” will perish because they cannot adapt to the changing conditions.

              • Well put J. Gibbs, There are many on this site who are jealous of anybody who has a better quality of life than they do, and hope that some kind of great crash will bring them down to THEIR level so they can somehow feel superior then, thinking the whole time that having money is the equivalent of being unprepared and ignorant.

              • I agree with Gibbs and the Kidd. If you think they are full of BS then you might have another thing coming. I think more and more people have seen the light since 2008 and after seeing their worth get cut in half with the staged recession they are thinking completely different.

                I too am upper middle class, drive a luxury car and my wife has the suv for the kids. I carry a corporate position and get paid well enough to have multiple homes. My community isn’t gated, but it is an upscale community where the kids play in the street. If you think for one second after SHTF that our community cant lock itself down and protect it you are wrong.

                In our “spare” time we also participate in IDPA, TacOne courses, Combat Medical Courses, Survival training, hand to hand combat training, etc. We “white collar” folk in our upscale communities want to ensure that our way of life is preserved. We have knowledgeable, talented, and educated people who see what is coming. We know that the dollar isn’t going to last so we purchase tangible items that are useful and practical. Ever since we lost so much in last “recession” we have invested our resources elsewhere…in ourselves, training, supplies, and most of all, each other. We aren’t just rich people living in high end neighborhood, we are like minded individuals working towards the same goal.

                And to the comment that “most wealthy folks are not preppers”, I believe that person probably doesn’t know many wealthy people. In fact, most people who I encounter that clear 6 figures are very well informed and have been “prepping” for several years.

                • At this point in the conversation, I can tell all of you that even the bimbo’s in Hollywood have had conversations about SHTF. Think about one of the biggest blonde bimbo’s with a 100 IQ, but lots of bucks.

                  SHTF is an Open Secret. And the more people that understand that the better. 🙂

              • Us 2%ers didn’t get that way by being naive and unprepared for the future. One way we got there is analyzing risk-reward. Risk a few thousand for training, food, ammo and other preps is a no brainer.

              • Hi DK

              • Street thugs ? There are no street thugs making their way across our southern borders they are battle hardened street fighters it’s how they survive. Are any of us ready to see blood and guts in the street, on our lawns. 82nd is 100% right if you have never seen these things then believe me you are not ready. It will be a horrible, horrible shock for most. They will not stand up straight so you can mow them down, they will move, hide and sneak up behind you. All those saying bring it on I am ready for it will be the first to die, those who have food and water and hide out will have a chance, a small chance.

            • @DK

              • I call bullshit, too.

                Most wealthy folks are not preppers. Hell most folks in general are not preppers.

                It takes unique individuals to prepare in all facets of the realm of importance.

                How many wealthy people does anyone on this site know that is prepared first and foremost; spiritually and then mentally to handle the possibility of having to kill another human being?

                Everything else falls into place after that.

                What good is all that prepping stuff, if you aren’t able to protect it?

                All the wealthy people I know are too busy trying to collect more $$ and bullshit crap that makes them feel good. Not prepping stuff.
                Well, some that like to shoot, do buy guns and ammo; but not with the idea of having them for protection in a shtf situation. They just like to shoot and make noise and walk around with a big tough guy/gal attitude.
                Most would throw their guns down and run if real danger from another human was upon them.

                Naw, I don’t see many wealthy people being fortressed up with everything needed to survive for weeks, much less months.

                Having the means to prepare to the hilt, doesn’t mean one is a survivalist. Most are just too dependant on LE in times of trouble. Problem is that most LE will be awol trying to cover their own asses when total collapse/ shtf.

                Want to see the whole country go ape-shit crazy, virtually overnight? Take away their electricity and when the phones,TV,internet, and A/C and heat and paychecks are gone for weeks, you will have mass chaos from coast to coast, especially once they realize it ain’t coming back online in their lifetime.

                Death and decay will be rampant, especially in the cities.

                • My net worth= $1,200,000.00 and I’m prepped, so are many of my closest neighbors.

                  • My net worth, not much, but it’s a smarts thing, not a money thing, just one more thing to pull people apart instead of bringing them together. Just my opinion. We ALL need to keep on preppin’ 🙂

                • This is a good discussion, It is not all one way or the other, however the Bottom Line is, the “Wealthy 1% Haves,” will be the target of the other “99% Have Nots,” You like those odds with your pink polo shirt and SMG folding stock with matching pearl handles? lol By the way, go ahead and fly that OH6- helo, FYI Everyone- The Gas tank is located right below the main rotor behind the cockpit. It will set off a nice set of fireworks in the sky when a tracer round hits it from the 99% below shooting at it at 3200 FPS. Just saying overconfidence or cockiness can also get you killed.

                  • No whoddoo, what you’re REALLY saying between the lines is wah wah mommy, I’m jealous ’cause THEY got more than ME! boo hoo hoo……..

                  • Circumstances will determine who is a target IMHO. If you are located in an area with thug personalities already, they will get together at some point to attack those targets they think are more hardened than the average household. That doesn’t mean just because you don’t have much they won’t come after you also, it just might not take as many to feel confident about beating the odds and attempting to take what they think you may have.

                    We live in a more rural community close to an average size town. A person with BIG bucks put in his hardened “homestead” using all the standard tax dodges to his advantage. You can look this guy up on the Internet to estimate his net worth…. He has money and he pushes people and local agencies, including the DEC, to his advantage. He will become one of the the thugs most likely since he is really already there. He will look after himself and his family and those who think otherwise will go down quickly. He is not a friend or acquaintance of ours but lives close by (and will be viewed as a threat when things do happen).

                    We also have a not too close friend but are on good terms with him that also has BIG bucks. He is the type that would stand with you if needed, but he lives further away (about 20 miles). Both of these guys have money that they each made themselves by working hard and using opportunities to their advantage. The first is more ruthless and does not have a conscience but both are well prepared and recognize what is going on in this country and world wide. Neither will be an easier target than the average prepper and both are probably better equipped.

                    Our income level doesn’t even approach a tenth of theirs, but we are still doing well in this poor economy because we made different choices than many of our peers regarding how we live. And even though we live a rural, modest lifestyle, we will still be targeted at some point…each of us will be engaged at some point and will need to be prepared spiritually, physically, and mentally to managed the many “hits” we will each take and have already taken. Like minds need to band together regardless of the income issue.

              • Hugh Janus: The biggest mistake a predator can make is underestimating their prey. 🙂

            • You may not agreee but that is exactly what our team is doing. Each person brings things to the table and we are all middle class or above on our team. We are investing in layered security and prep. 4000 bucks for a freez dryer… we have one and one on order. 308 sniper rifle. we each own two. Money right now has power. Use it and prepare. Let no one on your team that is a hot head, cruel when unnessasary, or is all bravado.

              • you said it. most people think the rich know nothing! could it be they are smarter than most. that is how they got to be rich in the first place. i’m not talking silver spoon puppy’s common folk with money be very careful

              • Man on the inside- DUDE! I wanna be on your team! I adore my neighbors and neighborhood, but I don’t believe a single one of them is a prepper. I think when the SHTF there is a chance that many of them would form a good team then, but by that point it will be too late.

                • Many on my team are not my neighbors. My place and two others are the teams bug out. Some of my team are in apartments but will transition up to one of the three sites if it goes south. Every major snow storm or flood we praxctice this move.

              • These folks are visualizing wealthy people as those with $100k sports cars sitting in mansions. Many of us appear middle-class because we don’t waste our money on depreciating assets. I’m exactly like your way of thinking, but just haven’t found others at my income level to band together with. I have neighborhood plans outlined, but no one to share them with.

                I’m categorized by the IRS as in the upper 5% (which really isn’t an exorbitant income), but we live like we’re in the upper 25%. The difference goes into training, locations, resources, actual practice, and planning. I’m fortunate to be able to afford systems that will “reach out and touch those” walking in the dark, coming at me with their 200yrd non-night capable equipment; long before they could come near us. We’ve chosen strategic placement around swamps (gators and snake) with abundant amounts of editable greens & proteins; with only two ways to even get near our small neighborhoods.

                I thank God daily for the income, my discernment to purchase assets wisely, and that those items will benefit his kingdom even if I circum to the hoard. You can bet your A$$ I’m spending my wealth assuming that something is coming and diligent preparedness beyond others is a priority.

              • These folks are visualizing wealthy people as those with $100k sports cars sitting in mansions. Many of us appear middle-class because we don’t waste our money on depreciating assets. I’m exactly like your way of thinking, but just haven’t found others at my income level to band together with. I have neighborhood plans outlined, but no one to share them with.

                I’m categorized by the IRS as in the upper 5% (which really isn’t an exorbitant income), but we live like we’re in the upper 25%. The difference goes into training, locations, resources, actual practice, and planning. I’m fortunate to be able to afford systems that will “reach out and touch those” walking in the dark, coming at me with their 200yrd non-night capable equipment; long before they could come near us. We’ve chosen strategic placement around swamps (gators and snake) with abundant amounts of editable greens & proteins; with only two ways to even get near our small neighborhoods.

                I thank God daily for the income, my discernment to purchase assets wisely, and that those items will benefit his kingdom even if I circum to the hoard. You can bet your A$$ I’m spending my wealth assuming that something is coming and diligent preparedness beyond others is a priority.

            • Jeez Louise, I hope you used the whole tub of vaseline for that effort.

              Most rich will starve quicker than anyone else because they have nothing in the pantry, and being pissed on DOM makes for a lousy aim.

            • Some are, some aren’t. Same as average dudes like me. My brother-in-law is a high-paid lawyer out east. Makes nearly a million a year. He doesn’t even own a gun. Takes his family on multiple vacations a year, wears nice stuff, drives fancy stuff, you name it. Prepared? Not a chance.

            • @Durrango. A few well placed Moltov cocktails on their roof and around window frames and doors, from a half dozen hungry gang members, and its over. Drill a hole in a wall and pour in the gasoline followed by a lit road flare, The Rich will have to decide to either grab their rifle or their finest bottle of wine as the entire structure will be engulfed with shooting flames in 15 minutes. As they try to escape the Gorilla glass will keep them locked inside their coffin. When they try to escape they will be shot piling out their Steel reinforced front doors Nothing is 100% Mob proof. The bigger the target the bigger the reward. But thanks for playing in a lively debate.

              • That was fun reading your plans.

              • whoddoo, sounds like nothing more than simple envy on your part, you’re hoping something bad happens to people with money because YOU are jealous of them. What makes you think all the shit you described won’t happen to YOU?

              • Look, even living in gated community is a false sense of security. Once the gate is open it can be blocked from closing with a parked vehicle. Even if there is “Skippy the Security Guard” checking license plates. A single sniper round opens that gaping hole. You will need a full time formidable army to secure the entire compound and community. Remember the more you have, the more there is for the taking by the seedy underbelly. And you can sure bet that will be the case. Also keep in mind. Your House and property may be secure, but the unprepared guy next door, is now dead and there are 50 gang members smoking crack next door that keep eyeballing your property plotting until they run out of resources, or looking for more entertainment, and then you get hit. See its the Greed in people that just can’t seem let go of their toys that will get them killed. If they come by my house I may give them some food and point them to your house, as I am sure they have a year of food in there. You can’t stop a looting riot, just look at the LA Riots that went on for days burning many buildings to the ground. And there will be NO law enforcement coming to your rescue. They will tell you you should have left weeks ago.

                • Agaim whodoo, it sounds like nothing more then sour grapes on your part. I noticed you are unable to say how YOU are going to avoid the same shit happening to you. You really think handing out some food and saying, ” Hey, go over to that guy’s house!” is going to get rid of an angry, starving mob? GOOD luck with THAT one pal!

              • Exactly. Read ‘Doomsday Marauders’ by Kilkenny to see how well their fortresses will hold up.

              • WWTI

                I don’t care if they are rich. I do not think that many rich people will come to my area. I not headed their way. I am not considered Middle class by monetary standards. Nice to have Doctors and Nurses and such.
                Maybe at some time they might feel superior. Just when you think you know something, things change fast.
                Leave the rich to themselves.

                One piece of advise. Never think you are better or smarter than them.

                Beer drinking 101.

                • You mean like a few bullet holes in every window in their mansion may bring their cockiness down a few notches. Look I just gave them free Air Conditioning. lol

                  • Yeah, and they’ll probably be MORE than happy to return the favor and ventilate YOU lol….

              • WWHTI: You neglected to read about the German Steel Roof system. Its fireproof. The house is built of reinforced, poured in place concrete, and covered in stone. The window frames are bronzed anodized aluminum, not wood. The really rich who you want to target do not live in wood frame and stucco houses. That’s rather pedestrian, isn’t it?

                When you breach the outer, perimeter, wrought iron fence, you will have tripped a silent alarm. By the time you make it 100 yards to the inner security wall which is concrete filled block, (and they will allow you to make it to the security wall for legal purposes), a weapon will be trained on you, waiting for you to scale the wall.

                Drilling through that concrete wall would take half the night if you brought the right tools and a power source. An explosive would only wake the neighbors and alert the police. The inner security wall s only six feet tall so you can probably scale it, but if you want to avoid the cactus you will have to jump into the ravine that circles the property on three sides and slopes down about 12 feet from the back of the wall. Good luck.

                By the time the police arrive you would be dead, and your death would be legally justified by the weapons you carry, which would evidence a clear intent to cause bodily harm. CATI 🙂

            • I luv it. I would also have a few bad ass dogs!

              • i agree.

                • I was in a Home Depot a few weeks ago and a customer had two, HUGE, beautiful, full grown wolf hybrids. They were probably 250 pounds and over six feet long. Looked like they good eat a German Shepard in two bites.

                  I asked the guy: “How much for a pony ride, mister?” 🙂

            • The Jumping cactus.

              Now that brings back memories. ;0)

              • Slingshot: Sorry for the flashback. It had to be a very painful experience. 🙁

        • Polite society would like to ignore the
          fact that we are the human animal with
          savage instincts just below the skin.

          • As time runs out, it is important to realize that there are an abundance of stupid people that will kill and steal because they can’t think of any other way to eat.

            If you are prepared enough, and far enough away from them, they will kill each other long before your preps run out.

            The goal is to not to prep for everything forever, just to get you through the mass die off that will happen relatively quickly.

            I was just reading about Agenda 21 and the plan to stuff 66 million people in 11 cities. The question was asked, what about the other 250 million “legal” Americans?

            They will die. murdered by the banksters or their minions, for the “crime” of being unprepared and unable to adapt. Adapting will require you to do things you would not normally consider doing. If you are not mentally prepared to do them BEFORE you have to, you will find yourself one of the 250 million sources of the blood on the banksters hands.

            For those who survive long enough, killing in defense of your property probably must at some point be done as the soldiers of fortune will eventually get there.

            I fear that in the SHTF future if you are unable to kill another man, you will be unable to live. Hopefully, I am wrong about that.

            • Gods creation
              The other day I read that 80% of our population is in cities. The artical said it was called urbanized population. So I just did a search on that and found it. Heres a link to some old data but it does show that as of 2010 there were 249 million people in urban areas already.

              Agenda 21 from what I read wants higher density in cities. If EPA keeps getting its way itll happen because they plan to control all waterways and more.

              some more figures are here

              • Know why TPTB want all people in urban areas?

                Easier to scoop up bodies in loader buckets and incinerate them; After they have likely killed each other off or after the evil ones have unleashed bio-hazards into their water supply.

                That is their agenda 21 plan, but God has a plan too. Time will tell just how much of Revelation prophecies are literal/physical realities or figurative/spiritual ones.

                Like the “third of mankind being killed” during tribulation. 2.3 billion is a huge number to die off in a short period. Heck, most of the world’s population are “spiritually” dead, now.

                • Scoop up bodies and incinerate?!Come on Pass,Soylent Green is their agenda!Weird part is a movie from decades ago may not be too far off the mark.

            • Agree, look what happened last year during the “gov’t shutdown” when the EBT was turned off for a few hours, it was so sad how fast things went south. Keep preppin’ 🙂

            • Will the banksters have their minions do an air raid on your abode?

          • Unfortunately for all of us, many looks back at history, will prove your statement true. Sometimes, people want to get all touchy feelie about the way they would like to see things play out, but reality is much more cruel than a pipe dream.
            There will certainly be room for caring and kindness in some situations, but it better be after you have taken care of business. In most cases, you will only get one chance to get it right.

        • “Whenever someone I know tells me about bad situation here something like “OH, it is gonna be OK, it is not gonna happen to us, situation will be better,” in that same moment I get a strong urge to go out and buy more ammo.”

          Serious question here…..

          At what point do you have “enough” ammo?

          • Personally. Walt, I use the Rule of One when it comes to ammo. When I think I have enough, I tell myself “Just one more box.”

            KySSG . . . out.

            • KySSG, welcome back. How have you been? I use the “rule of a few” on ammo. When I think I have enough, I tell myself, “get a few more boxes anyway”. Good to hear from you.

              • brave,

                Doing good here, just been really busy. I’ll have some great news to share with what I consider my extended family here at SHTFPlan very soon.

                Keep prepping, folks. Do whatever you can to keep gathering up your supplies. This shit is getting real ugly real fast.

                KySSG . . . out.

            • LOL! Someone once asked Gov Rockefeller how much money was enough, his answer; “Just one more Dollar!

              Gotta say, every time these crazy liberals that are running the country into the dirt scare the crap out of me with their nutty plans, bad choices, rising debt, threats and taunts, I like to add just one more box of ammo, or another magazine, or another case of long term storage food, or another security improvement to the house and property.

              • I guess it’s kinda like what a local preacher here says about land.

                He is joking of course, but says, ” I don’t want to own all the land in the world, just what borders mine.”

                My philosophy on ammo supply is this;

                I would like to have enough stockpiled to completely take up the mechanical usefulness of that particular firearm without having to re-barrel.

                One of my grandpappys bought himself a little bolt action 22 Remington Sportsmaster with the tubular magazine, in the early 40’s, when he was a young man. He shot it a lot because it was the only gun he ever owned, that i knew of.

                He killed a lot of squirrels,hogs,chickens and varmits in his lifetime. He taught me how to shoot using it. We plinked at cans, walnuts, and cherry stealing cat-birds up until his death at age 78.

                It was in the cards, for me to wind up with that little gun. After bringing it home and shooting a few times, i cleaned and looked thru the barrel with a light and saw a slight hint of riflings/grooves left in the sparkling clean, shiney sides.

                Now that’s a lot of ammo run thru a barrel.

            • The rule of one: Two is one and one is none. So, two bullets. Got it.

          • WK … There is no such thing as enough when it comes to ammo. With .gov spending our tax dollars to acquire rounds by the BILLION, enough for a prepper should be a curse word. Even if a person could never come close to expending all of the ammo that he/she may have, it makes for a very valuable trade item in SHTF scenarios.

          • How much ammo is enough? Easy: 10,000 rds plus one for each person within 5 miles. That’s just a quick rule of thumb but it seems reasonable to me and now that I have it I feel quite comfortable and only buy on sale.

          • Ammo enough for 30 days of need, at a combat load-out of 200 rounds per person. That comes to a grand total of 6 cases of something, something not being .22LR.

            After 30 days, things should be settled down enough for folks to have time to reload.

            Even if you don’t reload, save your boxer-primed brass. Go ahead and pick up a few cases of cheap non-reloadable surplus ammo, to get you a portion of your 30-day supply, but remember, once you shoot it, you are helpless. Relying on being able to salvage ammo from dead zombies is not a smart plan, there is no guarantee you will have safe access to ‘enemy’ supplies. Absent a complete rout and retreat, the Quartermaster supply will be in No Man’s Land, subject to fire from either side. Not a good place to go get your new gear from.

            Someone in your neighborhood or area is a reloader, even if you aren’t. Save your brass, and do include the following in your preps:

            1.) 1,000 rifle boxer primers in your size. 5,000 primers will fit in a shoebox and last forever. They come in ‘bricks’ of 1,000 for about $35.

            2.) 100 to 1,000 bullets in your caliber. Just jacketed bullets, nothing fancy. They come in units of 50 or 100, depending on size. Should be 100 bullets for each adult in your house.

            3.) Two pounds of rifle powder for each adult in your house, specifically for your chosen rifle round, such as Hodgon 4895 for the .30-06, or H335 for .308, etc. A pound will generally load about 150 rounds of .30 caliber ammunition. A pound of powder is about $30 right now, and should drop further this year as supplies firm up.

            The above will be enough to reload a quantity of rifle ammo when the need arises.

            If you do reload, or cast your own bullets, that’s going to be another level of preparedness, and quantities change.

            • Could not agree more. Primers especially. In the long term we can make black powder, but making primers is mighty hard unless you have access to some sophisticated chemicals.

            • In your scenario will not UN forces or police units wonder what your up to?

          • Honestly, I get pissed off with “smart-ass” answers to very straightforward questions…

            Let me try to give you a USEFUL answer to: how much ammo?..

            I watched a training by a Russian spetznaz officer recently.

            Those guys are “real deal”: they are fighting a real war, and they don’t have (or don’t use) a high-tech answer to every little challenge, – no drones, no handheld computers in the butt pocket, none of that crap. They are fighting a war the way the SHTF wars and conflicts will be fought.

            So, among other things, he said:
            1. They use full-auto (AK-74s) only within 10 meters. Outside of that distance: semi-auto only. His words, not mine: if you want to fire more rapidly, you just pull the trigger more often.
            2. Normally, in addition to their other load (mines, explosives, RPG, survival stuff, etc.), they normally carry a minimum of 500 rounds for AK-74, or 350 rounds for AK-47. That’s the minimum. Machine gunners must carry more.
            3. With that said… According to him, it is easy to burn through 5 to 6 magazines within a couple of minutes of retreat as a reaction to ambush.

            What do these numbers mean for you and me and people like us?..

            You are bugging out with your family…
            Or, you and your buddies are patrolling your survival retreat location, whatever and wherever that may be…
            Or, you and your team are scavenging for supplies when your own stored supplies run out (or have been lost to any other cause)…

            Anyway, consider this:
            if you come across armed adversaries, and you must GTFO, unless of course you are one of those folks who believe themselves to be Rambos and are about to die fighting, just to “get out”, you will spend AT LEAST 200 rounds in a very short period of time.

            If you survive (and that’s the plan…), you will need much more than that, for future occasions.

            By the way:
            these numbers also mean that you need to be able to carry all this shit on you.
            For the past half a year or so, I’ve been carrying a 1,000-rounds box of AK-47 ammo (7.62×39) in my backpack. That alone weighs about 40 pounds.
            Taking half of that, with magazines and an AK itself, and NOTHING ELSE, is at least 30 pounds.
            Anything extra, like a poncho, a flask, a handgun with a couple spare magazines, some emergency food, IFAK (a small medical kit), etc., is obviously an addition to the weight.

            But there is one more consideration regarding the amount of ammo to store:
            unless you are planning to use the ammo as a barter item (because it wil be very valuable after SHTF), the most you need to actually FIGHT, should be measured in relatively small numbers.
            – You are NOT going to spend thousands of rounds fighting. You will be dead before you run out of that much ammo, regardless of your training.
            – If you win a fight, and have a luxury to examine the enemies’ corpses (as opposed to escape-and-evade and leave the fight, instead of fighting to one side’s complete annihilation), you will pick up some ammo from your dead enemy. Or, they pick your from you…

            Point is:
            – you need a lot of ammo, but not go crazy. I’d recommend a minimum of 2,000 rounds per gun, but no more than 5,000, unless you are going to use it for purposes other than shooting it.
            – you need at least 1 firearm per family/team member. who can fight when the need arises. If your wife or teenage daughter don’t shoot now, that’s too bad, but you still need to store what they’ll need for after SHTF. One firearm per family member translates to at least 8,000 rounds total for a family of 4 (except little kids).
            – I recommend standardizing on not only types of guns, but also calibers. It is quite expected that during a fight someone runs out of ammo, and someone else should be able to toss him/her a spare mag, without asking what caliber that person needs. Obviously, for this to work, the magazines should be compatible.
            One example (definitely, there may be countless other good options) is: a Glock 17 for carrying in a bag and a Glock 19 for concealed carry during normal times; both are in 9mm caliber; longer magazines fit shorter guns, and there are extended magazines.
            Long rifles: for example, as many AKs as you need, but all in the same 7.62×39 caliber, so the magazines and rounds are interchangeable.

            I hope my explanation gave your some ideas to ponder upon.

            Be safe. Be ready…

            • @angrycitzen….

              Thank you for your very helpful response!

          • Most people underestimate their long term needs if ammo control becomes the norm. 1k rounds per caliber, per year, stocked up for as long as you think you are going to use that gun. That being said, stocking for my kids lifetime, that means somewhere in the mid to upper six digits intentionally vague), replacing what is used for practice.
            molon labe

            • Should you not think in terms of weight?

              1. 500 rounds of 12 gauge is about 50 pounds
              2. 1000 rounds of 45 is about 50 pounds
              3. 2000 rounds of 9mm is about 50 pounds

              Then there are variations. For a shotgun there’s bird shot, turkey shot, buck shot, slugs and skeet for practice! That list is just a basic short list. It can get expensive, bulky and a lot of weight to have just a 250 round case of each.

              Then there is the ratio of cheaper practice ammo vs hollow points for handguns. In 45, ball ammo or wad cutters is plenty efficient for personal defense, and so serves dual use, but a 9mm is a bit wimpy and a good hollow point a must for defense, so a higher ratio of defensive rounds to ball or wad cutter would be appropriate.

              I’m still trying to figure out the formula without breaking the bank! And should you need to bug out how much of each?

              • Weight means nothing to me. I will be staying put as long as possible. If forced to move there are multiple sites that have various amounts set up. Don’t want to look like the DHS if someone looks in the vault!!
                molon labe

          • @Walt Re:How much ammo is enough? When you gather at least 2.6 Billion Hollow Point Bullets, you are getting close. Then add just a few more than that amount.

            • I keep seeing these discussions and debates about how much ammunition is the right amount to stockpile, and I have to scratch my head and marvel at how simplistic and naive most of the people are who engage in these debates.

              Now, don’t get me wrong – I am not saying that it is not a good idea to acquire a substantial amount of ammo for each firearm caliber that you own. What I am say is this:

              We are not facing an enemy (ZOG) who is well known for their courageousness. What these rats are known for is their deviousness and their ruthlessness. Translated, that means that these evil bastards are not about to try to engage us in a face to face, hands on, physical confrontation whereby we will have an opportunity to deliver a few thousand rounds of our stockpiled ammunition in their general direction – because that would result in a quick trip down to Hell where these Spawns of Satan be reunited with their evil Father in his red suit.

              So, I find it baffling that more of our people do not grasp that this enemy will not challenge us in a face to face fight. What they are planning to do is to create a gigantic database full of names and addresses and probably makes and calibers of the weapons we own, and then sit on their evil asses in their air conditioned bunkers behind a computer screen and program one or more of their predator drones to seek out our address and then fire a missile into our houses that will kill everyone inside. Or, for those brainless morons among us who are addicted to these cell phones and never go anywhere without one – they’ll simply use their cellular signal tracking technology to pinpoint our exact location and then program a drone to deliver a predator missile to that location and kill us and anyone else who is in the general vicinity.

              And, all those boxes of stockpiled ammunition will never have a chance to see any action.

              BTW: They’ve even got drones that are designed to look like dragon flies or other insects. These are used to fly into a general area, somewhere out in the boonies – and perch on a tree branch and then with the on-board video cameras – they can conduct surveillance on groups of survivalists who think they are well hidden, camped out alongside a stream with their camouflage netting over their tents and survival gear. They can also send back latitude and longitude coordinates to the main ZOG Drone HQ – so, when guys get up in the morning and go out to get a camp fire going to make their morning coffee, before they have time to drink their first cup, a predator missile decides to pay them a personal visit.

              Thus, can anyone try to explain to me how having 10,000 rounds of ammo stashed away is going to help them defeat a chickenshit enemy who sends drones out to do his killing and who might be 100s of miles away?

              • Because nothing may happen in our lifetime except ammo control and our kids will be thanking us 50 years from now for stocking up.
                molon labe

          • when you cant afford to buy any more

          • Walt: “You cannot be too rich, or too thin, or have too much ammo …” according to SHTF America. 🙂

          • I don’t think that is an easy question to answer. The better question would be “When do I not have enough ammo?” That point to me is anything less than 1,000 rounds per firearm. Even still, you need to temper your need for ammo with your need to prep in other areas as well. If you are just beginning to prep and have to choose between, say, having 500 rounds and a water supply or 1,000 rounds and no water supply, then clearly you need to split your focus. Weapons are necessary but they are only one part of the equation. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to get the basics completed from the beginning of their preps, but it is important to try to get a little of everything (food, water, weapons and shelter) to start and then concentrate on your weakest areas first. Remember that the S may not HTF in the short term, but you will definitely see natural disasters in the short term that will not result in a long term WROL situation, but will require self sufficiency. The US agricultural collapse and the new dust bowl of course being the most obvious one, with high/hyperinflation of the US dollar due to a rapidly changing situation in world trade being another.

            • Well stated! Thanks 🙂

          • Never enough ammo. Never enough weapons, never enough spare parts, never enough gun oil, etc…

            • Ding ding ding, we have a winner! The first guy to mention spare parts for firearms. Modern firearms are incredibly well made, but they do break!

              New firearms come to market and after they’ve sold millions, and they get to be five ten years down the road, you can google that make and model with the words “broken” or “repair” or “lost” and see where discussion on firearms forums take you!

              For a couple of my weapons I have ordered the common critical parts that other owners have reported that broke or fell off during use. Some manufacturers offer inexpensive kits of the common parts that get lost, break, or weaken (like springs).

              You could have a thousand rounds of ammo, but it does no good if the weapon won’t go bang when you pull the trigger.

        • quote – “Screw the system, you need to build your own system” – unquote.

          Got that?

          We here are (mostly) guessing and preparing as best we can for what we THINK can/might/will happen but Selco has been there, done that, seen the very worst and come out the other side.

          For my part, when Selco talks, I am all ears. He proves it is possible to survive in a bug in situation and although that is not my first choice even though I live in the outer suburbs of a large Aussie city with careful thought and planning it obviously can be done.

          Only a fool would think that what happened in the Balkans cant happen here or in the US. Rent the movie “Saving Private Ryan” and have a look at what happened to otherwise peaceful countries during war, how the very fabric of society and law and order was torn apart, not to mention infrastructure. The US and Aussie have never had to endure what other countries did when invaded, we have fought our wars elsewhere – will be so lucky next time?


          • You forgot the American Civil War, or the War of Northern Aggression.

        • Selco’s course is inexpensive, and worth every penny for his hard-earned wisdom. Highly recommended.

        • Shit with no plan stinks to high heaven!

          • @Iowa – A plan for what? Economic collapse, Martial Law, NDAA, Pandemic? Bug in or bug out? Civil War? Invasion from the UN and NWO? Gun confiscation? Sure you can try to plan for all of these, including knowledge and skills, being in good shape to haul 80 lbs of gear, shooting skills, food, antibiotics and ammo stockpiling, water collection and purification, and a combination of all of these overlapping for a plan. But planning for what, is the question? I think one of the greatest skills a person can possess, is being able to quickly adapt to an every changing situation. Most any disaster out there, is not going to follow “your” well layed out plan. You will go from plan A to B then C, then throw all of that out, and just pay attention to existing conditions for the moment and adapt to keep surviving. Your best plan is a wide selection of prepping stockpiles, but a useful knowledge base on all of these subjects, and the ability to quickly adapt to a new situation at it evolves will be key. A million obstacles, can alter your plan. No plan is full proof, even Durrango Kids’s fortress theory. Punch a few holes by exploiting the weaknesses. Then, Let er’ Rip!!

        • The Japanese tend to behave themselves very well in SHTF situations. Culture matters, folks.

          • I have witness this first hand. Seriously, place Americans in the same population density as some areas in Japan, there would be race wars within a week. Wife and I were in the area during the Kobe earthquake, the way the people worked together was incredible to watch.

          • We have maybe a hundred million foreigners and dozens of diverse cultures in this nation. Culture will definitely matter.

          • I guess one of the best layed out survival plans of survival was that of Japanese Fighting soldier who was found 29+ years later living in a cave on a South Pacific Island, not sure if the war was over yet. Good Article: The War is Over . . . Please Come Out In 1944, Lt. Hiroo Onoda was sent by the Japanese army to the remote Philippine island of Lubang. His mission was to conduct guerrilla warfare during World War II. Unfortunately, he was never officially told the war had ended; so for 29 years, Onoda continued to live in the jungle, ready for when his country would again need his services and information. Eating coconuts and bananas and deftly evading searching parties he believed were enemy scouts, Onoda hid in the jungle until he finally emerged from the dark recesses of the island on March 19, 1972.

            The rest of the article:

      2. Good post!

      3. Deport Obama for starters.

      4. A little proof reading on this article would have gone a long ways. A lot of missing words for sure. I’m sure someone would have been willing to give an hour of their time. Good thought, but think most here are not in a clueless state about what would happen as this has been discussed regularly on the site and forums. Man do I hate typing on “smartphones”…

        • The author, Selco, resides in the Balkans and is not a native English speaker. This article is published as is – we felt editing it would have taken away from the points Selco is trying to get across.

          We always publish selco’s articles as he intended.



          • Thank you for leaving Selko’s comments sans spell check/grammar check. He reminds us of the truth when everything goes to hell. Note how Ukrainians lit up APCs. One glass bottle, Styrofoam, one cork, one windproof match. Apply multiple doses until soldiers are well done. $1 solution against $30 million APC. Selco would be amused.

          • USA will one day see Bosnia’s ethnic cleansing on steroids.

            • HJ, Lets just hope DHS will be busy dealing with that particular ethnic threat first, who btw/ commits most of the crime in today’s semi peaceful society, and stuff them all in a FEMA Camp first. Of course knowing how our government works, DHS or DOJ, will probably give them guns and ammo, like “Fast and Furious scandal,” multiplying the threat that may rid the rest of the other 95% in populations. Its the same tactic that is going on in Iraq. Arming ISIS, or both sides so they kill each other. There is No Honor today. Expect the unexpected.

        • @mike.l. , give Selco a lil’ Respect. The man has more than earned it.

          Selco a Pro Medical Male Nurse in his country survived a year and a half in a true genocidal hell, watching his home city destroyed by ethnic cleansing civil war and all it’s gore, watching his barricaded trapped family sicken starve and die, fighting off rabid packs of crazed looters in the dark of night, drinking ditch water, eating rats and lawn grass to survive.



          • Howdy, Puff. Selco ears my respect also. I have a hard time getting away fro his articles. He is definitely the real deal. Everyone needs to read this man’s articles and take his advice to heart. What he’s already experienced is coming to this nation; only a matter of time.

            • I meant to say ‘earns’ my respect. Another mistake.

            • Brave. I have to agree with you. Selco has some good ideas and is worthy of repect. He has helped the cause in so many ways. You actually set is back each time you flap your gums. I can smell the booze when I read your comments.

              • NLT, that one was PRICELESS! Keep up the good work!

      5. I cannot imagine the sudden drastic changes that will occur when the reality finally sets in that everything that has been ‘normal’ has gone south. As you wrote in another article, it will undoubtedly dawn on most people slowly, but when it hits them, their world will go south quickly.

        I am very concerned about someone, anyone, having my back. I have a slightly older good friend who thinks like I do, has experience in living off the grid, and has pioneered in north country — but is unable to do much, has poor physical mobility, is untrained in firearm defense, is often depressed, and lacks motivation. I’m concerned their lack of motivation, drive, and energy will get me killed. I am sure (in my own mind) those tragic times will contribute to greater depression and despondency than they have now. I’m fearful the brutality of life then will cause them to ‘check out’ — at least mentally.

        You have good words for us — not easy words to hear, but words that will help steel us for what lies ahead.


        Son of Liberty

        • son, i too have those feelings. my wife is now gone and i have nobody to “have MY back”, but i DO have lots of supplies, and when the time comes i will have a day or two to invite a few uneducated, uninitiateds over to help out. that’s about the time when they will realize that guy down the street with all the guns and food wasn’t crazy afterall! that’s when they will FINALLY understand how EFFED they are without help. THAT’S why i prep,and try to open the eyes around me, so that they will at least RECOGNIZE what just happened. it’s THEN that they will know it will take a community to get through it,,,,and they BY-GOD better bring sumthin’ to the table! it’s gonna cost ’em DEARLY.

          • Son of Liberty and buttcrack

            There is no way if “it” went belly up big time that I would be able to use all my ammo/supplies. But, I am not prepping just for me – I have 2 kids in their 20’s and a little grandkid. My kids are just starting out and have little thought for tomorrow, it can be a struggle just to get through today (remember when you were in your early 20’s?) so what I do is as much for them as for me.

            There may be the odd person I will offer assistance to but it will only be to someone who I know with absolute certainty will pull their end of the saw when push comes to shove. No loafers or “gimme dats” at my place and anyone who comes to my door with any indication of a sense of entitlement or with looting/robbery in mind is in for a very rude and possibly fatal surprise.


            • amen to that second paragraph,down under!!!!!!

          • BCOD

            Bring something to the table. Hehehehe!

          • Buttcrack. There is another woman out there for you,just looking for a good guy to be with. Make yourself available now today, get out there and start looking. The grieving period may linger, but replace that by filling your heart with a renewed spirit, kindling a new friendship relationship. sooner the better. Cheers!!

            • thanks for the kind words WWTI….yep, she’s out there somewhere, but how the HELL do I find her? it’s this late in my life that I realize I have always tried to conform to the women I meet, instead of looking for one that is like me. most have been closet liberals, like the last one, I knew I was in trouble when I was forbidden from talking about any shtfplans to any of her friends. head in the sand people are soooo hard to deal with. next time it will have to be a woman that defines herself as a prepper. seeing as how there’s only 3% of the population that are preppers, that makes it a hell of a task to find her! I might as well look for a fish ridin’ a bicycle. anyone got any ideas on where to look? there’s dating websites to match pretty much any type person, but i’m not aware of a prepper type dating site. maybe mac ought to run with this idea on THIS website…..signed, lonely hi-desert prepper.

        • Ref: Son of Liberty

          My feelings exactly….Hell, when you are a Vietnam Veteran and your the youngest person in your area…..

          As I have stated before….Who is going to have my back ?
          It oft time seems that most people are just held up in their own little world….We have been divided and that my friend ain’t a good thing !!!

          • 3rd Down,
            We are all getting older , Grenada , Panama , Gulf War vet myself and I am one of the younger ones in my development most of us from that era are on the wrong side of 55 .
            I got involved with some of the younger area vets from the GWOT ( Global War on Terror) they have more in common with the vets from your era ( long term deployments ) as opposed to my deployments in hostile territory ( 6 months max. Each deployment ) . A lot of them have seen some real shit I am greatful to have them on my 6 . When it comes , our old training will see us through , but those younger vets of today will bring the others home . They are proven in battle , tough in sprit and understand what is coming .

            It’s going to get VERY REAL VERY SOON , get your heads in the game. Life will change in a blink of an eye and never be the same again . There is a storm coming , dark clouds on the horizon.

            East wind rain ……..

            Prepare , Form Teams , Never give in or up .

            RECON ALL THE WAY

            Semper Fi 8541

        • Unless the Gov takes down the entire Internet when they start their roll out of NDAA- Martial Law oppression, there will be someone with a smartphone or GoPro posting this Public beating all over the Internet on every website that can be logged onto. This will be the Alarm bell that wakes up the rest of America, Cause you can count on the MSM propaganda painting a rosie picture of how the Government is protecting us in every City from domestic terrorists. This is when even the amateurs will start stocking up on groceries, and keeping a loaded shot gun handy. I believe the LEO’s will be so over whelmed with the unprepared masses, it will put a damper their plans to being going door to door. They will be too busy protecting critical infrastructure. And when you begin to hear random gun shots throughout the night, then you know the chaos is getting closer. Make sure every one in your family know show to load, reload and shoot every gun in your arsenal. Get to the range for family day. And explain why this training is critical to your family’s survival.

        • Son of Liberty – Even with all the negatives you mention your friend has. Finding a person with the prepper mind set is Golden.

          I’m a single guy with only a 75 year old Aunt to work with. She is being somewhat self sufficient and done a little prepping. No use in a gun fight but she can cook and grow.

          Make do with who you can. Tell your friend you appreciate him. Would cheer him up. Maybe he can be a lookout. Or take care of the plants. Find a use for him. Unless he is blind and paralyzed from the neck down. He can do other things. Make him feel wanted.

          Post collapse, the best revenge is knowing all those bureaucrat parasites in D.C. are dining on each other.

      6. Most people would believe that it won’t happen here. Well it has begun already. Most of the time a collapse isn’t an event, it’s a process. As tensions mount so does frustration due to our inability to do “something”. The Govt. keeps pushing and pushing, a tipping point is coming quickly and while the majority of the population engage in the ostrich exercise (head in sand) those who prepare may be the future patriots that jump-start the Consitutional process again.

        • Actually, I have lived amongst monsters and know how they can be and yet I never been to prison, war or dealt with criminals professionally.

          I am a female and females have to deal with a lot of stuff guys don’t have to deal with sometimes.

          I know what its like to be dragged in the basement of an old abandoned school, raped and listen to thugs talking of killing me. I know what its like to be kidnapped and have a knife put to my throat. I know what its like to be terrified of a person they called, “dad” for 13- 14 years and suddenly that person turn on me… yep… I know all this and never been in a war, prison, or whatever… just all about being a female (not that they all experience this but many do).

          And the hole I live in now? (called a town)– I’m afraid to ride the elevator or cook in the kitchen because of the scary people living in the building. (Should have never left my happy, inspiring little town I used to live at!) This morning, I listened to some guy clicking his knife as we waited for the elevator and when we got on?? Damn, I couldn’t wait to get off!

          Basically, for some people, the S has already hit the fan! I wasn’t prepared (prepper style)… all I had was God.

          • Of course, if I would have had a gun back then, none of that would have occurred– I’d simply shot the bastards! 🙂 Live and learn.. I was young.


              • A gun and the will to use it when the time requires.

              • Maybe not the only thing, but the easiest thing for sure. I’ve only once in my life had to use a gun to defend myself. Thankfully, I didn’t need to pull the trigger at the time. I’ve found that guys don’t like to be embarrassed, and if they think that might happen, they will back down.

                I have successfully defended myself without ever raising my voice or hands. I have also successfully defended myself with my hands.

                The reason I walked away from many confrontations with guys, is because they feared ME, more than I feared THEM. More accurately, they feared me getting in a “lucky swing” and making them look weak.

                Any fight that never happened is a win.

                But that doesn’t mean you don’t need to be prepared to back your play if you have to. It just means you only draw your weapon of choice when you intend to use it.

                • I’m with ya there sixpack, I’ve stopped guys in their tracks with my feet. But I’m getting my carry/concealed JIC…. 🙂

              • Annie get your Gun.

          • Where in the fuck do you live? Get the hell out!

        • I find it amazing that so many people have their heads in the sand so to speak. They have no idea what is going on around them except that their x box is working and their favorite “reality” show is on. There are only a handful of people that are actually prepared, and even at that, are any of us completely prepared? It’s kind of like a war plan, almost nothing goes as planned. There are probably at a maximum of 20 people that you surround yourself with that you can trust absolutely. That number might even be too much. While things have been in a decline for almost a 100 years, a tipping point is near. We have an absolute corrupt government who have enriched themselves off the taxpayer. Nice to think that we can be enslaved by our own money.

          I look for the collapse to come in the form of an overnight event. While I’m not sure what it will be, sooner or later, the populace will have had enough. There will be a purging of the takers and those that enable them. From then on, unless people are willing to regroup and do the right thing, the U.S. will be in sad shape and vulnerable. I have young children, and I hate what they are inheriting. Pray, plan, prep, and hope for the best.

        • I agree. I’ve been thinking that we’ve been in a long, slow slide for years. Maybe there will be a tipping point, maybe not. But whether it’s TSHTF or some natural disaster, people will quickly descend into survival mode.

          The last storm here in rural PA knocked out power for 24 hours. My entire town had no electricity. The nearest gas station that still worked was 5 miles away, where folks were getting gasoline for their generators. Think about what would happen if that had lasted for days or weeks, when gasoline was no longer available. I have propane stoves, and I always have extra 20-pounders filled up and ready to go, but if I can’t get refills, then I won’t have heat in the winter. So I’m adding back-ups. I know we’re going to see more emergencies like this and we all need to be prepared.

      7. “I get a strong urge to go out and buy more ammo.”

        Dam I have this thought hit me in the back of the head almost weekly if not daily

        its subliminal comes on like a light switch
        is it a message from a higher power?

        • Ammo Therapy. Works for me…

        • @VRF:

          True enough Sir.

          When ever I get a case of the jitters, I find myself walking the perimeter, checking windage flags and distance markers, my own brand of clarity.

          Always trust your “spidey senses”

          Never enough ammo, never.

          ….spidey out….BA.

          • To paraphrase an old, old airman’s joke: The only time you can have too much ammo aboard is when you’re on fire”.

            • or in water over your head

          • BA,
            Windage flags ( yarn tufts in trees ) , range markers check,
            How about range cards with distances to features for each fire lane,
            and exfile routes worked out ?
            patrol routes , RTR TTP’s ?
            3 options minimum, A,B,C,

            And lastly hope to God you never need them.


            Semper Fi 8541

            • @NB:

              We think alike Sir.

              Range and elevation cards to fixed features.

              Field of fire go cards for each port.

              Evac and evade routes with regroup and secondary regroup positions, stacked, mapped, and married to the HQ.

              The missus doesn’t like “alphabet soup” designations, everything is spelled out, so the newbs won’t shoot her in the ass — lol.

              Kind of funny….when we first started mapping the perimeter, the missus thought it was a waste of time. She has always been the spray-n-pray type. Took her out for elevation training, 60 foot drop at 75 yards, she could not lay on target at all. Now she can ring the bell 5 for 5,longer ranges will take some time. The math is still fuzzy for her, so she understands the benefits of terrain intel.

              She takes to teams drills like sunburn on virgin ass. Evac drills, leap frog, she is usually out the door before I get my pants on — lol.

              Best to you and yours.

              ….I got your six…..BA.

        • @VFR man I know exactly what your talking about in the past week alone I have bought close to another thousand rounds in varies calibers 300 tonight I have had a huge urge in the back of my mind kinda weird

          • Weird, but last night I had this dream, that SHTF it was chaotic everywhere, and I was in a big 2 story house and it was full of people, it was pretty dark inside, and I started going down the stairs to the main floor to get out of the house, and there was some dark haired seedy scumbag coming up the stairs with a big knife in his hand looking like he was ready to kill somebody. I pulled out my semi and quick shot him once in center mass. He fell strait back down the stairs, and I quickly leaped over him, and ran out the door. Then the next half hour outside there were a few cops looking for his killer and dealing with all the other chaos on the streets, and I made my way out of the area. Then I woke up. Whatever that dream means?

            I am guessing this is how its going to go down in SHTF, people shot all over, and you sure ain’t sticking around to be questioned. Just have to move on to safer areas.

      8. here is also a wake up call for some

        The reason this government ( and many) are so afraid of the gun, is because it is the tool that will change their agenda

        thats why they are trying so hard to get them out of our hands any way possible

        • VFR,while I agree the firearm is a great tool against oppressive/tyranny/blood lust in a ugly way driven kind of folks please consider other tools to fight with.Some patriotic folks will screw with their net/comms,others go to while still open big box stores with a bit of money and cook up all sorts of things/some will be in the background tending the hurt and feeding those doing the fighting,hell,the list is endless in ways to help fight evil,which of course includes the firearm.

        • The NWO’s biggest fear is to confront Millions of well armed Americans protecting our own home turf. They want it and we ain’t giving to them. Thus they will try every trick in the book from anti-gun laws, to bankrupting us, through rezoning or degrading our property values so we abandon large tracts of territory, relocation, through civil war, NDAA, etc. They want to round us all up, kill us, and take everything we have. So watch the “Talking Points” that will divide and conquer our masses. They know if they break our backs, like a mass grid down situation they can hold out for a few years till most of us are dead. They will win. However we need to be prepared, and use our time wisely and organize and plan to rid them once and for from the shores of America. Utilize today’s technology to make your own to do list for when the SHTF.

          • a rifle behind every blade of grass

      9. And here I was, about to write a comment on a student driver who only wanted to listen to head-banging rock n roll and what a strain it was to ride with him. (maybe later). Selco’s article has brought me back to reality (I came kicking and screaming, but I’m here).
        Reality is, just as he says- The people around you can turn into monsters, given the right circumstances. Better be prepared to deal with that.

        • Head banging rock,hell Smoke,I’ll teach him how to drive!Oh,and a standard at that!I love head banging music from good groups,hell,also listen to bombastic classical also,not much of difference deep down in the music!

          • My taste in music is so wide, anyone who can’t find at least one song in my collection they like, then they just don’t like music.

            • I put together a playlist and after listening , it dawned on me I had an eclectic combination – Marty Robbins, Metallica and Mozart back to back.

              • …and loving it.

      10. Seeing how folks react in many different challenging situations am under no illusion that a human can act very ugly.I will say you also see a lot of folks who go out of their way in tough times to help others.I buy ammo for the first group of people and prep and hope have a chance to share with the second group of folks should a natural/man made disaster strike in my region.

      11. I pray that the good guy wins!
        The only trouble with that is who is the good guy? I would consider my self as one of the good guys, some one else would consider me a bad guy.
        Just remember that the only person you have to answer is your maker.
        I will take care of my own first and foremost. I will do what I can for the others. Zombies and Leaches they are on their own.
        Try to take what I have you will pay for it one way or another. Silver, Gold, Lead!!!!
        Keep Praying, prepping and practicing!

        • Sarge,did you say Zombie?!As a Yankee from the northeast I have learned from George Romero movies to be”anti-zombie”,perhaps I need a way to survive,hmmm….,if I just had a hmmmm…..,say manual.Wait for it,it’s coming!

          • Don’t encourage him/her/it.

          • Visited Evans City Cemetery many times.

          • War:
            Sarge means brain died people that can not or will not even try to take care of themselves or there own. I call them Mopes.
            S.T.S.F.P. N.R. NS. N.REB

          • WD
            Yes them, and the folks that won’t do anything for them self, and expect you and I to do it for them!

          • Believe it or not the U.S. Gov’t has a FM that deals with a Zombie Apocalypse “conplan 8888” unbelievable…..!!!

        • Sgt the Sheep Dog!! Believe me, If for when I see some thugs out there picking on the weak, I will not hesitate to serve up some immediate justice. Then after, the folks will say, he left and we didn’t even have a chance to thank him. Yep “Bust and Move.”

          • Yep,do the right thing and skedaddle,allows one to again do the right thing down the road,have a bad thing will not last long doing the right thing but have come to terms with that decision and am comfortable with it.

        • Howdy, Sarge. If anyone tries to take what I have I will give them ‘lead and brass nutrients’.

        • You mention meeting your maker. This implies that you have at least some sense of religion based right vs. wrong value system. This is exactly where the problems will arise. This country has slowly been losing it’s religion. Many today have no foundation of right/wrong because they live as Darwin’s disciples. This means nothing will hold them back when things get ugly. No sense of honor, integrity, or the golden rule. I think today’s Americans will be some nasty SOB’s when it all goes down. On the other hand, they will be easier to kill without carrying around any guilt.

          • @Gonetolong. Religion is NOT a requirement to do what is “Right from Wrong.” (big fallacy) There are more Freaks using religion to exploit and raping our children that ever before. In fact religion causes more problems and wars than it solves. It is a false set of belief brain washing, that creates gullible ignorant people. Look up “Affinity Fraud.” Religious cults are ripe with the gullible sheep that are easily duped and fleeced. I had a Minister working for me part time. He was a thief and a con, and I eventually had to let him go. True story.

            • @Gonetolong- When REAL SHTF, these Religious people will quickly realize Darwin was right. The natural selection of the fittest survives. Religion is like Prepping with an Obama “Hope and Change” feel good book. How’s that werking for ya so far?

        • Sgt Dale

          The good guys will win, eventually. Some will fall by the wayside, that’s a sad fact of any conflict but remember, we have always run out of bad guys before good ones!

          I’d stand beside you Sarge, you’re one of the good’uns!


          • RDU
            Thanks man! It would be an honor to have you at my side.

          • Shit….

            Now I know who will drink all my Fosters….

            • I’ll bring you some Boags Premium Ugly, worlds best beer from the pristine waters of Tasmania.


              • Second that!

      12. ~Just because one ignores reality, does not mean reality will ignore THEM.

        There are a big boat load of weapons in the U.S.
        Face it, some of the types of people on the other end of those weapons will shoot you on site, esp if they see you carrying weapons like the 2 silhouettes in the post picture. Some will do it to acquire more weapons for their group, others just to neutralize *any* threat perceived or real. That means a lot of dead, dead people. That means the first guy to shoot first with the silenced weapon that knows their stuff is going to drop you.

        People with good night vision equipment (esp FLIR)are going to rule the night…and will be against all those others who think they will rule the night. Those caught out after dark better know what they’re getting themselves into.

        The BIG difference between the war Selco was in and the one the U.S. is going to face…is technology. The U.S. has the highest gun ownership per capita of *any* country in the world, last time I checked. There are lots of people with Class II and III weapons…not kiddy stuff. It’s going to be brutal and those who say it isn’t…best of luck to you. You will need it.


        DIY 220 gallon Rain barrel system. Simple, yet functional…I like it!

        h t tp://

        • I don’t even need a gun to kill thousands. One 8000 gal tanker of bleach, mix with one 8000 gallon tanker of ammonia (as in crash vehicles together). The resulting toxic cloud should kill all for 1000-2000 yard radius. And that is the least lethal idea in my head. Screw small arms if SHTF and we’re really pissed.

          • Anon – So were you beaten as a child? Just asking? lol

      13. ‘Screw the system, you need to build your own system.’


      14. People…….No different than a wounded or trapped animal, are the most dangerous.

        Prepare yourself that ALL are dangerous to you if a collapse occurs.

        • “””Prepare yourself that ALL are dangerous to you if a collapse occurs.”””

          That’s what the propaganda networks are hoping for. The “elites” can only win if the people are more afraid of each other than they are of the tyrants they place in office.

          If we are going to win the war they seek, we will have to lose the fear of other Men and unite against the common enemy, the corporations calling themselves government and those behind them with printing presses.

          • The global elites will win. We’re going to see a one-world government not long after the collapse.

            • @Barncat – You think our Founding Fathers had that shitty attitude? I say “Make Em’ Work For It, dammit.

          • The Biggest Threat out there, will be other people. “Armed Hungry people,” who will do anything to to achieve their immediate goal to eat. You can count on these unprepared masses that have nothing today, and already putting their plan together when SHTF. As they sit around today, planning their group gangs, piled in a pick-up trucks ready to inflict pain on anyone that gets in their way. Count on that everyone. How will you stop that? So we will need to set up observation LPOP’s well outside the wire, well up the road to stop these marauders in their tracks well before they can see your home front. In fact it may be good to set up a few abandoned heavy vehicles to block the road to your main location. And an ambush team on both sides of the road, in a crossfire to dispatch them. Another prepper tool, will be a loud blow-horn or megaphone, that you can talk loudly to them, to give them instructions. You can place remote speakers on poles, so they are not sure of your real location. You can decide if they are a threat or not, as how they react to your commands. Create your strategy today with neighbors of what if? Or what are your areas greatest threats.

        • you forgot hungry



        • To a point I agree with you
          But , some people that will just wanna be left alone will come to life in ways you never thought possible when
          1. Their kid or loved one is in grave immediate danger
          2. People that have nothing to lose because they watched some crazed asshole kill their family , kid.. Hell, dog even

          People do have limits , and when they are breeched it becomes something other than human for the time necessary to ” get the job done”

          • VRF, I agree. whose fantasy world did acid come from?

        • Acid,was in a position to help someone in a very bad accident,did what needed to be done and then puked/shaked adrenaline dumped afterwards,would be happy to help if ever needed again.That said,the idea of taking someones life does not bring me any pleasure except I may find if needed and helping someone can at least come to terms with it,will not know till put in that situation,and am perfectly happy to never be put in that situation but other forces may leave me no choice.

          • What we need to do is build a “Well Regulated Army of Sheep Dogs!!” If some wish to be “Lone Wolves,” and get the job done through being a sniper, Great!!! If some wish to roam in “Feral Dog Packs” to clear roads, protecting the food supply chains. Great!! But keep in mind we are all on the same team of “Sheedogs” protecting the flock and territory. It may take special identifying arm bands to know who is who, or a special hand signal of who is who. Adapt!!

        • who the fuck are you????

          a combat vet

        • ACID ETCH,

          Your point could have been more effective without being caustic. Adversity introduces us to ourselves, as the saying goes. No one really knows how they will react in the heat of battle until real bullets start flying in their direction.

          I’ve been through extremely intense shooting simulator training where you have to shoot through an innocent “human shield” to engage an armed hostage taker. Two students in my class of 12 could not shoot through a human shield to stop the armed threat. The only way a student could fail that particular scenario was failure to shoot. The objective was not to shoot the hostage per say, but to stop the threat using intense indiscretion.

          The point being shooting psychology is really no different than SHTF prepping phycology in many respects. You start by getting Amped Up. Both require A LOT of soul searching before the event occurs.

      16. Remember folks, after you start shooting, everyone knows where you are. Stealth beats all.

        • SILENCERS and SUB SONIC ammo will be VALUED. As will crossbows, knives, axes, and 100’s of other defending/killing devices that accomplish the task without noise.

          If you intend to “bug-in”, as I do, KNOW your surrounding terrain like the back of your hand. UP CLOSE and HIGHLY VISUAL DEATH will be a new experience for MOST (99%). A disgusting, nauseating, but necessary for survival PRE- DETERMINED COMMITMENT. If you are still UNSURE, YOU WON’T when the time comes.

          MENTAL PREPAREDNESS is as critical as any other level of preps! There are “THOSE” among us whom don’t understand, or care about humanitarian concern. YOUR choice…THEY DIE, or YOU AND YOUR’S DIE.

          This is without a doubt the worse case scenario. Pray it never reaches this level “where you are”, but if it does, Pray and PRACTICE TO ENSURE AN AUTOMATIC RESPONSE completely void of a conscious thought process. AUTOPILOT all the way! PRACTICE, muscle/mind memory are prerequisite to success.

          • I prefer to remain conscious and let my brain make the life or death decisions. Auto-pilot is another word for reflexes. Uncontrolled reflexes is what gets people killed, that didn’t need to be killed. My trigger finger will never make my choices for me.

            Pretty much the same reason why hunters never shoot blindly at anything that moves in the brush.

            • Prepper Tip Today for SHTF- Exercise your TRIGGER FINGER. Fully empty your pistol, Safety check it again, then practice pulling the trigger 100 times even with the safety on or to get a full pull. You will see how tired your finger gets after 60 to 80 pulls. If you ever watch these gun test vids, when they try to run 1000 rounds through them. Their trigger finger gets tired after a few hundred rounds and they switch to their index finger. Just saying, know your body know your finger and exercise it. Or use an exercise stress ball or rubber bands to exercise your trigger finger.

            • If you interpret what I said as “shoot anything that moves”, you are mistaken. “Practiced reflex response” to an OBVIOUS threat is clearly different!

              The ONLY ONE to mention “uncontrolled reflexes”…is YOU!

            • All it takes is practice, and time. 😉

              • and,…. that magic word again…..STEALTH!

                I will be using stealth, in full camo, to take out the biggest threat first. He won’t even see it coming.

                Armed with a crossbow, razor sharp 12′ double edged knife, and throwing knives. A solo threat won’t be a threat after I get done with him, just a meal for the coyotes. All, hypothetically speaking of course.

                No noise to attract attention to the kill.

                One enemy less.

                Move along; very quietly. Blending in and out of the shadows.

                Ready to strike again.

      17. We all like to think we know shit.

        Because, when we know shit, we look good, and everyone agrees we know shit.

        We get a buncha greenies because we know shit.

        But, as Selco says, we don’t REALLY know shit and we aren’t really smarter than shit and we will all be in deep shit when the shit actually hits.

        • That was a bunch of good shit.

          • JRS and Confederate, no shit?

        • Ain’t taking any shit from anyone either.

          Worked too hard and too long to accumulate my shit.

          Ain’t planning on being in any deep shit either, when the shit hits.

          I’ll just keep eating enough to have my daily shit, and keep up the energy level to ward off all the bad shit.

          99.9% of all the people within a three mile radius of the retreat/bol, will be in deep shit, but not us.

          Why? 99.9% get their water from a deep drilled well via an electric pump and have no spring water on their property. I have three springs within 500 yards of BOL and about 1000 gal. storage capacity to gravity feed into the homestead.

          As long as the sun shines to recharge my array of 12 volt batteries, the drop pump will do the work.
          If that fails, horsebacking will have to do the job.

          H2O is gonna be a problem for folks. Not only tranporting it, but there will be many people using from the same resource. A choke point for thieves to set up an ambush, or follow the weakest looking (easiest prey) folks back to their homstead.

          Stealth and surveilence around a well known, clean, water source is a must.

      18. I’ve been feeling this way for better than thirty years. Buying firearms, selling them trying to upgrade constantly. Then MD decided that only law abiding citizens needed to get their card to purchase a handgun or an evil standard AR15. Get this, I don’t need a state card to buy: a class 3 anything, be it an AR, AK, or MP5. I don’t need the state card to by an ARSBR (short barrel rifle) I can own an AR if its considered a HBAR(heavy barrel AR) which out of the several ARs I currently own, only one is not a heavy barrel. Its because of these inept boneheads in government, that I prepare physically, financially and spiritually, and have done so for many years. Because people FAIL. Most of the time its not intentional but its still failure that can affect me and my family. I don’t get too sore about it anymore nor disappointed. It’s just the way it is. Most of the time I prefer to be off by myself and have always been very comfortable doing so. I take my pleasure in taking care of family, and I don’t forget if I’m wronged. See to your family and loved ones before all this gets swept away.



      19. Just reread the book “Into the Wild” about Christopher McCandless. It shows how an idiot is taken with Jack London and Hemingway stories instead of thinking about gear and strategy. I spent 9 months of my life living in a tent in the woods in West Virginia. I needed weekly supply drops. You should also learn about Gene Rosellini. We both concluded that humans as we know them cannot live off of the land.



        • AHA! There IS an upside to getting old!!!! WOOHOO!!

        • Can we stop the shouting?

      21. I have been using a motor scooter every day to get around. MPG = 50. You old people need to get a modern cordura jacket with body armor, full helmet, studded leather gloves, and steel toe boots. I see you out riding in nothing but a 3/4 helmet.

        • Oh look! Eisencrap’s mommy let him back in the basement again and he found the computer!

          What a shame he hasn’t gotten any smarter. He’s still the same fat, pimple-faced, pencil-necked, girl-friendless, whack-off playing with his own feces.

          You can change your handle all you want Eisencrap, but you can’t hide stupid.

          • Walt, I was about to say that sure sounds like Eisenturd. The term ‘old people’ is a dead giveaway. The KING of trolls. Eisen, go away. None of us want you back.

          • Walt, PS, I forgot to add the all caps is also a dead giveaway. Yep, sounds like Eisenturd under a different handle.

            • Yep, a dead giveaway,renegade braveheart.

              Speaking of way back, on SHTF plan; didn’t you used to go by the handle/moniker, “braveheart” without the “renegade”?

              Eisenkraut would occasionally hit a good note, but he ruined his standing with folks by always cutting down and blaming the boomers and old folks. You know you have been “sticking it out” for a long time if you have heard of Eisen.

              I have been coming here since ’09. under different handles/monikers; and didn’t even comment for the first year or so.

              Kinda of ironic for him to do that, since his mother was probably a boomer, or at least a Gen Xer.; and he depends on her to bring down his meals, to his lair.

              • Passin, yes I did go with the name braveheart previously but one day I had trouble getting comments to go through under that name; possibly a problem with my computer. So I tried with something different and the comments went through so I’ve used this same handle ever since.

        • ACID-who they hell are you calling “old”?

          • Texan, acid is one of our old trolls from way back when. His real name is eisenturd but he’s using a different handle now.

        • Acid etch;
          Let me apologize for some of these folks. Your comments don’t seem all that offensive. A lot of thin skin here if you are not in their love club.

          • @skeptic….

            Sounds like you haven’t been around here long. That’s no problem.

            But Eisencrap (a.k.a. Acid Etch) is a troll of the first order. If he holds to his old patterns of behavior (and so far I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he won’t), you’ll soon tire of his incessant offensive posts as well.

            He’s an immature little brat with a fixation on anyone over 40. I have frequently advised him that at some point, his mouth will write a check his ass can’t cash. He has not posted on this site for a while, so it would not surprise me at all that he’s either been in the hospital or in jail. If he doesn’t change his ways, his big mouth will eventually cause him to wind up in a cemetery. (That’s not a threat. It’s just a statement of fact. He’s going to piss off the wrong person one day in a face to face confrontation and get his ass handed to him)

            He has never contributed a darn thing to the conversation on this site, and that’s why he attracts the vitriol.

            • Walt, that’s one of the best descriptions of eisenturd I’ve ever read.

      22. can you imagine being in south side Chicago or similar when SHTF?

        people will be doing fucked up shit fo sho.

        • I think a weekend or two in Chicago would be a training opportunity.

        • actually the bad guys on the Chicago’s Southside will not be on the Southside …. there’s nothing to loot … they’ll be heading out to where they shop now …. mostly the adjoining suburbs … in some cases white suburbs … that’s where the conflict and battle will be fought …. won’t be pretty

      23. Need to reread this article and meditate on it.

        How many movies have we seen where someone stands up and says I in charge or this is how we are going to do it. I am the man and perhaps they have a few hired guns.

        They will eventually take your ammo and food, by force. Remove the threat early in its development, all of it.

        It is still better to consolidate with your family, I mean if practical, brother, sister, mom,dad, if possible. Will be a tight squeeze but can extend living quarters. Blood kin bond is usually more reliant than a community unit. Females living alone with children, the elderly will be prey for these people.

        There are certain groups that are already armed with an established chain-of-command and will seek to take over part of a county/town. Either they are to have to be dealt with or some agreement of co-existence. But no agreement for protection.

        And you and I will have to figure out a watch system. Cannot let guard down, especially at night. Will take a few to secure a small community area. Need night vision devices to monitor the area. A must to have and also sights.

        I know some may thing this is somewhat silly, but how many gangs are in your town and armed with semi-auto weapons and have some military experience? How many middle eastern type people do you see managing gas stations, 24 hour stores and such?

        Just my opinion……here…..

      24. Just Keep Prepping People. You will be rewarded soon enough. You are ahead of 95%of the other people out there. Newbees – Shoot for 1 month of food, then 2, then six months then a year supply. Split up your food and hide half of it, the other half split that up, and hide half of that. Get a year supply of toilet paper and a 5 gal bucket with a potty seat, “Lugaloo”$12 Stock up with lots of cases of bottled water, various methods for water filter purification. “Sawyer”-$20. Bugout bag, Bugout vehicle, Bug out Location. Guns and lots of ammo filled magazines.

        • Who,Sawyer personal filter system 18.50 delivered,in theory will filter a 100,000 gallons of water if occasionally back flushed,very small unit with under 3 oz.’s weight,great for any car/camping/bugout bag ect.

          • Warchild, I’ve got 2 Sawyers I’m going to take on a camping trip in Aug. and test out.

            • Renegade,they do work,at least so far.I would though recommend as I did testing on a questionable water source first while you are at home and bathroom is near,for some reason doesn’t work you are not sick and squatting in middle of no where,though guess that would be a mental prep!

            • RB,
              They do work ! use a pre-filter (coffee filter ) might still want to boil the water or use micro pure tablets just in case of viruses to be safe , you do not need a case of Norro Virus in the field. . Can’t beat the price though and they have lots of reviews of positive nature. Right now we are blessed with an abundance of really good preparedness equipment at reasonable price points.
              Really neat product .

              Semper Fi 8541

          • Every member in the family should have their own Sawyer filter system. One is None. Talk about an awesome barter item, pick up a few dozen.

            • I have various water filter systems. Lifestraws to a $300+ Katadyne pocket ceramic filter. A person could hook up 2 Sawyers inline,just to be sure at that low cost. Funny after the Sawyer 100K Gal filter hit the market, many other filter Co’s dropped their prices. That’s a free market in action.

          • Every member in the family should have their own Sawyer filter system. One is None. Talk about an awesome barter item, pick up a few dozen.

            • Warchild, Night Breaker, and WWTI, thanks for the tips. I also have a Lifestraw to test out. Still have my old Katadyne Micro bottle with extra filters which I already know is good. I also have a shitload of water purification tablets as backup. Plus, when I’m out in the field, I only get water from running sources anyway [creeks, streams rivers, etc.] NEVER get water from a ny pond! I tried that once as a teenager on a camping trip and even with the tablets I still got sick. I’ll never make that mistake again. running sources only are your best bet for water.

      25. The USA and most of the ‘civilized world’ has a very thin

        veneer of civility that glosses over huge cracks in the

        foundation of our society. This has been in the works for

        a VERY long time. (read Elders of Zion) Yet the band

        plays on and the fools keep on dancing. Idiocy.

      26. Did any of you watch the video? No mention of it. ISIS takes no prisoners. “God Is Great”, is their Rally cry.
        Far from what we have now. Think about MS-13 or a Motorcycle gang getting their hands on REAL HEAVY WEAPONS.

        Life is cheap to them overseas. It is getting cheaper everyday in America.

        Get ready.

        Thanks Selco. A real eye opener, if you can stand the gore.

        • Lots of bikers and mc-members are good people. Don’t believe what the movies and the police state government says. Judge people by there actions. Lots of bikers are combat vets and are no pussies, be careful.
          Have a nice day. Stu OUT.
          PS. I love my Harley and my brothers.

          • @stu johnson….

            Big thumbs up on what you just posted.

            I have a friend who is in a motorcycle club. Former military. Combat vet.

            I guarantee you, if I was in a bad situation, he’s the first one I’d want covering my 6.

        • I have never had a issue with motorcycle clubs,a lot of friends in em.

          • WD

            There are some good clubs and some bad ones.

            • I can fit in either way.

        • I almost became an ‘Outlaw’ in the early 80’s…

          • eppe, did they kick you out for telling jokes. haha.

            • WWTI, Actually since I was sponsored by a higher up, my jokes were the highlight of the parties. So here is one for you.

              What do yo call a deer wuth no eyes? No idea.
              What do you call a deer with no eyes or legs? Still, no idea.
              What do yo call a deer with no eyes, legs, or penis? Still no fooking idea.
              What do you call a deer with 20\20 vision? Good idea.
              What do you call a deer with 20\20 vision and a AK47?


              • Eppe, you know I was just teasing ya. We already buried the hatchet. Like in any crisis, you will see the oddest of combination of people all working together for the same goal to survive. The Viet Nam War was a good example, of Blacks fighting right along with Whites, as they were all Americans on the same team.

                OK Eppe, I went out target practicing last weekend, and I forget to bring the targets, so I started shooting at “Cans” as prepping targets. You ask, shooting at Cans? Well yes, for Mexicans, Africans and Puerto Ricans..

                • WWTI, Good joke, and I know you were teasing, shoot if we cannot tell a joke here and not get feelings hurt, how will we react when socity falls apart???

          • Eppe,could never wrap my head around the wars between clubs ect.,actually more in common then apart.I hung with some folks in a well known club,realized seeing some of the insanity close up to a degree(still on the outside)it was not for me.The true members who believe in brotherhood but more importantly act in brotherhood/counting on each other works for me,have found that brotherhood with friends.The clubs all got together and figured out a way to live with each other would be to a large degree untouchable.

            • It’s a bunch of bullshit. 99% of motorcycle clubs are not criminal. In 1947 some motorcyclists had a beer party in Hollister, CA and three people got injured. The media trumped it up to some fuckassed horseshit like the “Hollister riots” and “outlaw bikers are going to destroy the country”. They made some idiot movie called the wild one with marlon brando (who was never a good actor) and the whole country bought into this bullshit. I ride everyday…hey waitaminute…I guess I am a prepper outlaw…

              • @Acid Etch….

                A skateboard is not a motorcycle.

            • War, agreed, if you can hang with hard core bikers, you will see things that will blow your mind, once they trust you, they can be some of the best of buddies you can other have. About that time they were fighting with the Hells A ngels. Got to much for me, plus my sponsor got killed, so I broke and ran. Wild shit for sure…

          • Me – Arizona Dirty Dozen, Associate. (Mid 80’s – early 90’s). The MOST honest, reliable, trustworthy, loyal group of men I had ever hung out with! I have some very fond memories of those folks and and value learning all about the ‘biker club culture’ from them.
            Hells Angles disbanded them and then absorbed some.

      27. As our country goes stagnet and food water and shelter go the way of the dinasour scared people are going to do scary things. In their own minds they will be able to justify their actions.

        Then you will have the mad men who have awaited such great opportunities. The will look upon these cercumstances as a feast laid out just for themselves and those like themselves.

        And you will experience those that can no longer face what life has presented them. They sit down and make peace with what they see as the only way out…..DEATH!

        Preppers have been waiting for what is happening in the world. But not to take advantage of those less fortunate. Only to survive and find a way to thrive in a world that has been laid to waste.

        A smart prepper will read all the information about fallen civilizations whether they think it likely or not.

      28. The anointed ones (in their own minds) that control what goes in this world are the only ones who truly know when and how the global collapse will take place. In other words the NWO takes control. Right now only America, maybe Russia and China (to a point), stand in their way, so they have to get the three into a war by any means they can. This will accomplish two major stumbling blocks for them. First of all- depopulation of the planet and the second is the elimination of any super-powers apposing them. We as a-whole have let them stack the deck against us, all in the name of MONEY (Greed). Like I have said before, the only things we can hope for is put up one hell of a fight and die FREE MEN and WOMEN. The choice is ours.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!

      29. Somewhat off topic.


        Have been seeing a lot of it on the news. Close to home as a traffic accident or murder hits the airwaves at 6 P.M. There is the memorials that are placed along the road. The grief counselors set up shop. Piles of stuff toy animals and candles litter the sidewalks and highways. There is a sign business for this as I see many of the same construction. People who can not move on and have yearly functions to relive the sorrow. I get it but I don’t want to hear or see it year after year. Get on with your life.

        As for stated words above, I believe the American public will not have the stomach for a fight. They will pass out at the first sign of blood. To which I agree many will not be able to pull the trigger. A fact, for nothing has happen as of now.

        • While working on a Prof Fire Dept/Paramedic yrs ago. I saw a lot of death. Every way imaginable. Gunshots, murders, suicides, hangings, beatings, car accidents, burned victims in fires, heart attacks, frozen to death, abortions, amputations. That is probably why I have no faith in Religion. Religion ain’t going to save you from anything in the here and now. You need to get training, and have faith and confidence in yourself as a person, and the determination to stay alive no matter what. I also saved a lot of lives, and stabilized people till we got them to the hospital. Even delivered a few babies. Just saying, be mentally prepared for seeing anything and everyting.

        • All it will take is III percent.

        • I agree 100%, slingshot.

          Too many people hang on to grief and a kind of messed up “possessive” mentality, over losing a loved one and/or family member.

          I have heard this same ole snot slinging shit till I’m sick of it……..

          “Oh I lost my baby ten years ago today and I miss him/her so much; don’t you remember when it happened”

          No, I haven’t forgot because you keep bringing it up every freaking week, for the past ten years. And it wasn’t “your baby” to begin with, it was God’s. Besides, he wasn’t a baby, he was 22 and was driving fast, while stoned out of his head.

          If he had of ran head on into a vehicle that my innocent grandbabies was in and killed them, I’d have helped him from ever killing another.

          I do have compassion, but like you say; give it a rest.

          They put out all these flowers and stuffed animals and shit; not once or twice, but every freaking year. They also put their picture in the newspaper and the date they left this wretched world. I’m sorry but after twenty friggin years, ain’t it time to say goodbye.

          I see death as a celebration of getting to the good side of eternity. if they were not ready, then well…. everyone has to sail their own ship, after the age of accountability anyways.

          • They are turning the whole country into a semi-grave yard. And you know what? How about all those T-shirts with pictures of the deceased. Then you have the decals on the back of truck windows. I think they ought to paint a picture or a couple of pictures on their truck so everyone can see. I have seen the pictures on billboards along the interstate. I can understand seeing pictures of missing persons or for crime information. If you believe in God, (As I Do) and have been a decent person on the earth, you should go to heaven. And if you believe there is a heaven, then you will see your loved ones there. if they were good.
            This is a short version for you Bible Bangers.
            Take the time to grieve but do not impose on others unnecessarily.

          • passing wind. Its obvious you haven’t lost a child. I lost a 17 year old in a car crash more than 20 years ago. not the childs fault but their dead just the same. And its something you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy. and Almost the first thing I think of in the morning when I wake up is that child. Losing ones parents, siblings. having a home burn down don’t even come close to the devastation of losing your child. I like to talk about that child and the adventures & good times we shared. my wife does not. Everyone grieves differently. Be careful of judging others too harshly. you just might get the same visit. now it comes down to this. would I kill someone elses child or grandchild to save mine? Im pretty shure I certainly would. I hope I never have to make that decision

      30. Protect the Innocent

        A lot of innocent people and children will suffer in the times to come.

        Those “SHEEP-DOG PREPPERS” who are Guardian Protectors of the meek in their heart and beliefs , that can , must step forward and see that the innocent do not unnecessarily suffer at the hands of those who would prey upon them.

        And be careful that they themselves…


        * “When fighting Monsters , be careful you do not become one yourself!” *


      31. It is true there are many who look forward to shtf. Psychopaths, criminals, power trippers, race haters, the very greedy, sex maniacs.

        When shtf happens, Pandora’s box comes open and all these little Charles Mansons go wild. They will be your biggest worry. These individuals won’t flinch at doing horrible things: for them it is fun. It is a sad fact that women will suffer terribly. Look at all the conflicts in the world today: and look at how the women are treated. There is even a big campaign to stop this abuse but it is naive because nothing can be done when law and order break down. The best thing right now is for women to not be naive and to train to defend themselves. Train and arm.

        • You still don’t get it do you? Those criminals, killers, and rapists may very well be your coworkers, your sibling, your spouse, or…you? It’s completely unpredictable how anyone will act in SHTF. SHTF just brings out the bad in some people’s subconsious.

          • SHTF as I have said before also brings out the best in many people,some folks who never knew they had it in them to face not only danger and get thru but help others along the way in situations they never imagined themselves in.I will say if not for that when things go south would just get drunk and checkout,tis my faith that some will to best of ability do good that makes me want to carry on and help others where I can,yep,may be my demise,but,will then at least be a life worth living and perhaps dying for.

        • Frank – so true that women suffer atrocities (probably kids too). Not well known but a bit of checking will verify – when the Russians marched into Berlin their commander gave them 3 days “off the leash”. There were more than 50,000 babies born 9 months later.

          Ladies, have or get a gun, know how to use it and be prepared to use it.


          • Wonder how many of those 50,000 babies were conceived by mutual consent. Not all men will rape if given the chance.

            • You’re an idiot. Nearly all men will during SHTF.

              • I disagree. Not all men will rape simply because they can. But a few really evil men can do a lot of damage in their lifetime when they are not stopped.

            • That is true sixpack, not all men are and maybe some exchanged sex for food as the situation in Berlin was desperate. But, by the accounts I have read it was an uncontrollable orgy of looting and rape and any resistance/protest was met with bashings, even murder. The Russians suffered at the hands of the Germans and the 3 days was payback. Even before that though, as the Red Army marched towards Germany, General Zukhov gave express permission for women to be used as his men saw fit. I’ll post a link below……

              Not a nice thought and it reinforces my view that any woman who wants to be armed should be able to do so. If some dirtbag breaks into a house with rape on his mind and gets double tapped front and centre do I care? No! You wind up with a live would be victim and a dead would be rapist – better like that than the other way around huh?


              • WW2 -It was Nylons and Chocolate barter for sex – Good Prepper item. lol

            • At the end of the war, the German birthrate was very low. No food, no medicine, only a few men at home.

              You can bet about 99.956& of those births were the product of Russian socio-military policy.

              With nearly a million Russians in Berlin, the women didn’t have a chance, no matter what proportion of the army engaged in rape, they weren’t taken forcibly once or twice, but dozens of times, for weeks.

          • actually the Russians raped their way west to Berlin … it didn’t start in Berlin by any means … Ukraine, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Baltic States, Finland, Austria, you name it …

            People thought they had it bad under the Nazi heel til the Russian boot came along …

          • Judging by what I’ve read, the Russian troops were never “on leash”. The atrocities they committed in Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Georgia…. never mind in Germany.

      32. I live in a small town. There are still hundreds of people that live within a one mile radius of where I live. With maybe 3% of people being preppers and 30% being gun owners it’s going to be difficult to survive. At least we don’t have to go outside and haul water back home. That will get you killed in a post-collapse world unless you live in a rural area.

        • Same here. At least it’s a small town, under 10,000 population, so things should settle down pretty quickly and we can get on with the business of producing food and rebuilding order.

          • But the vast majority of people don’t have food. That’s why I think 90% of Americans will die after the collapse.

            • Neither do we, as a general rule. But, we do have farmland.

      33. My name says it all. I can see the daily cost of living already changing. Hard to prep when I am only breadwinner of 5. Dont mistake me that i am not though. Wife says she feels same way, but i doubt her when she dont do shit to get ready. Just comlains why i have not bought new computer, or pay for fast internet. So i have to sneek my preps cause she say im waisting money. I tell her i gotta spend it while its still worth something… Lordy lordy should have heard the fight when i said i want to cancel tv service. Am i a monster for wanting to leave her behind when its time to bug?

        • If she voted for Obama, I’d leave her behind.

        • Things change. Keep your wife.

        • Yes, it’s a bad thing to want to leave her behind.

          My wife hasn’t been on board with prepping but I don’t love her any less because of it.

          • What could be better than having a wife you love and can say “I told you so” to for the rest of your life?

            Just doesn’t get any better than that.

      34. Thank you Selco for another dose of reality, i hear people who think they will be able to reason with others when SHTF,
        From all i have read from guys like you thats a dream that will end badly.
        God help us

      35. I see some problems for those that plan to take from others.

        This is America, the most armed country in the world and home to the most depraved. If a readyman doesn’t put a bullet in them, someone else will or is waiting with an improvised homemade flamethrower. No matter how good you think you are, someone out there is better or gets the drop on you or gets a lucky shot. No guarantees, for anyone. Any wounded will slow them down, use up more resources, lower morale, and there’ll be no hospital services. Since 99% of people don’t prepare for anything, there’s not much to take from them to begin with. Even if they raid a few, they’ll have to find out how to divide up the spoils evenly or someone’s going to be unhappy or starve. Amateur raiders that can’t keep their mouths shut about their plans, someone will dig up dirt on them like Tyler Smith the “Apex Predator” or someone near them could be planning a first strike. If they want to hit jackpot looks like they’ll have to find and be up against the most intelligent, cunning, most armed, trained, and waiting (that’s you and us).

      36. I have had people tell me that they would not take a life, then I say, I am a 250 lb thug with your 2 year old in my arms with a knife at their neck. Blood is trickling. You are 6 feet away, with a gun. now can you shoot? Made lot’s of people think….

        • Eppe: Thinking about killing is hard for a woman…but I tell you what…ANY child in danger and I wouldn’t think twice….with my teeth around your throat if I had to…I’m sure 99% of women would say the same. Just reading your post got my adrenaline up….it’s how we are wired.

          Hearing a child scream in fear or pain will make us crazy brave and formidable foes. There is a reason why females/mothers are more feared than males in the animal kingdom.

          I pray it never comes to that….


      37. I HAVE A SERIOUS QUESTION TO ASK THIS GROUP: Currently; I own a Glock 22 ; 40 Cal. I know this is a pretty good firearm to own. I have to state; I’m a novice when it comes to gun ownership; with a capital N. I’ve practiced at a localrange maybe a dozen times in the past year. My big fear; and worry; is WHEN TSHTF; not IF; that i’ll be rushed by 4 or more hoods looking to take me down. Im; by my own account; a below average shot. So; my question is: WHAT IS A GOOD FIRARM TO HAVE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH A GANG COMING RIGHT AT YOU; TO TAKE YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES DOWN? I’ve been reading this blog for wahile now; and some of you guys are pretty saavy; with good intel. Any info pertaining to this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

        • Dave, I am an older female and love the AR15. Get a few 30 mags.

        • Duh– 12 gauge. No offense meant, this would be the weapon of choice. No plug, double ought or #2. slugs would not give you enough coverage.

          • Yea, the 12 ga. is hard to beat.

            For reliability and close range performance I’d go with something like the Mossberg 590 “Riot Shotgun”.

            I really like the 590A1 with the optional heatshield & bayonet lug. Add an extended tube with the 20″ barrel and accomodate up to eight rounds in the tube and one in the barrel.

            With 3 1/2″ magnum buck shot, you could take out several gang members in a short period of time, at the right distance.

            That is, if you have done a lot of practicing with it on lifesize targets, from different yardages.

            The recoil will be a deal breaker for some though, so I would start with bird shot for practice, and then move up to the good stuff.

            For reliability, go with the pump.

            A jammed auto without a backup weapon will probably mean death or at least a severe beating, when attacked by a gang.

            Good luck.

          • 12 gauge yes, forget the slugs. At under 20ft you get the same hole with slugs as shot. Slugs are only useful because there are states that won’t let you hunt with a rifle. Get a High Standard 5 shot riot pump shotgun with rifle sights. Load it with No-4 or No-6. It won’t go 50 yds and kill someone you don’t want to. If you want more range get a few slugs.

        • AR is good but cant beat a good quality semi auto 12gauge shotgun, i have a mossberg 930, is a Jerry Miculic competition model, holds 8/1 i like it, great for hunting or trap, have a red dot on it so is fast to aquire targets, but a Saiga with a high cap drum is deadly, loaded with 00buck the scenario you mention may be doable, ie not as hard to miss,
          Best bet is to not get into that scene if at all possible, and pray a lot! Those are going to be my first choice,

        • Dave
          I’d definetly want more then one weapon, and at a minimum 3 to 4 magazines full of rounds for each.

          Now Dave here’s my bad news .. that Block , glock is only good for factory .40 cal loads and no “hot” .40 cal rounds because a 40 cal glock doesn’t have a fully supported breech ..”blow outs” of the magazines have happened with these in hot 40 cal reloads , to me that’s not an acceptable piece of equipment to stake my life on

        • 12 gage auto shotgun, 2 and 3/4 00 buckshot. Five in tube and one in chamber.

          Each shell has 9 pellets and with an auto loader you can bang away 54, 30 caliber pellets in about 7 seconds.

          Longer range to target will give you a wider spread in the pattern of shot.

          You have to keep the muzzle on target and be able to handle the recoil.

          • Dave,practice when you can afford the ammo on a more regular basis,perhaps consider a airsift for getting stances/trigger control/breathing ect. down but also practice with firearm you own.I would say try and avoid to best of ability all thugs by staying low/knowing your area ect.,your thinking is your best weapon.You in a situation were you have to shoot whether to defend yourself or others no choice then just shoot.Available would research a basic combat course if you can afford,gain a little more knowledge to keep your best weapon(brain)sharp.Funds permit it would consider rifle/shotgun as others have mentioned.That said,without some basic food/water or ability in tough times to get both you can have all the firearms made and you are still screwed.

        • @Dave, cover and concealment, avoid conflict before it may take place. Learn to move and shoot at the same time. Being mobile rather than standing on place. Your regular gun range just does not let you practice this. They don’t even let you draw from a concealed “in the belt” fashion. Have to get out to a real outdoor range in combat training situations. Room clearing, slicing the pie around corners, etc. Try YTube Vids as a starter. Carry a few 30 round Glock mags, that will fit in any glock. Just as a few suggestions.

        • The best weapon is a squad of armed neighbors. Take a good look at your area, where the access points are, and when the time comes, defend your neighborhood. That gang is going to stay away when they have to rush you across 40 yards of open ground defended by a dozen folks armed with long guns.

          If you can afford it, get a shotgun, just the ticket for so-so pistoleros.

          • Those armed neighbors could and very likely would use those weapons on you and each other. if you couldnt trust them alone with you naked wife or daughter you better not turn your back on them when SHTF. I remember DTA don’t trust anyone.

        • Dave for close quarters nothing, I repeat NOTHING is better than a shotgun. Personally I’d go for a Rem 1100 but guys here will suggest a pump and I respect their opinions. As you state you are a capital N Novice a pump in times of extreme stress is one thing you will have to remember how to use when your brain isn’t working well, if at all !!

          For the close quarters you envisage any shot size will do, even bird shot but I’d go for BB’s – I have absolutely flattened 200 pound hogs at 15 yards with that combination.

          If it comes down to the time of gravest extreme start with the closest one first and then the next closest when the first one goes down, and he will with a single centre of mass hit.

          Keep the Remington 1100 clean, get a mag extension and keep it full.

          Handguns are fine, but in a situation measured in feet not yards a pistol is used to fight your way to the shotty.


        • I would go with an AR-15 as well.

          All you 12 ga. fans, I mean you no disrespect, but the limited magazine capacity is a problem. Unless you get a high-end shotgun with larger capacity, most shotguns will be limited to 4 or 5 rounds. That’s not enough when facing multiple assailants. And even if you have a shotgun with a higher round capacity, reload time is much slower than an AR platform rifle.

          Then there is the recoil factor. Lots of recoil with the 12 ga. Negligible with the AR.

          And also the fact that most shotguns are pump action….which is slower than the AR. You could put 6+ rounds of .223 in an assailant in the time it would take you to fire 2 rounds with a pump action.

          With the shotgun, you are also going to be limited to very short-range engagements. What if you are dealing with assailants not only trying to breach your front door….but across the street….or down the block? The AR gives you more flexibility and is far more accurate at distance….and more effective.

          And finally, if you’ve got bad guys stacking up outside your door, you can shoot through the walls with an AR and be effective. A shotgun will penetrate also…but it will not have as much remaining energy to penetrate your target….and again…’ll be able to put out more rounds in a shorter period of time with an AR.

      38. We have to know we might not always live safety as we know it as the arthur says. With that said, I’m gona put a link up not to freak you out but to show that there is another side to the coin. My young friend sent me this link, mind ya I kill and butch all my own Animals and I honestly cant watch most of the stuff on this site..once in awhile we hear about somebody cutting a body up, in other countrys this seems to be a way of life. And Mexican cartel is in our back yard, and in are yard it seems, witch is not a joke, at least not to me..Are lawmen an gov is starting too act like the Mexican law & gov cartel witch I personaly dont feel comfortable about either..

        • PA,will watch (or at least try)but going to get some things done today first,I figure this might just bring me down a bit too much,rather in evening when I can perhaps process it and think of ways to if I see horror happening stop it.

      39. I was BLOWN AWAY by the 2nd and 3rd video at the following URL I urge everyone to watch.

        The trains go on for minutes and minutes showing tank and armored vehicle one after the other one after the other one after the other being transported HERE in the United States! that I lost count of!!

        The moral of these vidoes?

        When they hit, they will hit HARD, and with EVERYTHING they GOT!

        And these trains show a PART of what they got!

        What I pray for is that the TRUTH behind ALL this evil will be EXPOSED! Of course, truth never damages a cause that is just!

        • Lone Ranger: The link didn’t work for me….more info?


      40. >>”Just ask yourself this question: Who is more experienced living in place without any law, criminals or regular folks?”<<

        This is IMHO the best point made, among many great points, within this article. Great stuff Selco. Thanks Mac.

      41. I read every word Selco publishes. He’s the only one posting here who has actually seen the elephant.

        • Amen!

      42. Many folks are going to be in for a rude awakening, if this unwinds badly. All these people think they can handle a weapon. What they don’t understand is their brain will freak out. At first you have the shakes when you aim, for some it never goes away. Yet for others over time the shakes disappear. You then can place your shots. Fire and forget, fire and forget. It becomes a automatic reflex. Then a 10 round clip can take out 9 or 10. Under stress, and in the zone I guess you could say. I hope it does not come to that, because once the brain switches to this mode the smell of death fills the air.

      43. it may be a harsh thing to say but if it happens durring the winter and you live in the northern parts of the US and you have alternative heat like a wood stove that you can heat your home with alot of people will just freeze to death and thoes who do go looking to loot or kill you for your home will be sum what easier to defeat after being cold and hungry its hard to concentrate on the task at hand but if you have outside guards on shifts where you can warm up eat sleep ect then your a little more able bodied hypothermia could be your friend if its the enemy suffering from it and remember its best to wound them if there is more than 1 it takes 2 to carry 1

      44. your first kill is the hardest after a while you just get numb about it and its second nature like wipeing your ass worked in the prison system for 10 years and interveiwed alot of murderers with multiple blood on their hands i always figured it was just demon possesion and you can tell the difference in the murderers for money,love ect and the ones that have no remorse

      45. The bottom line in SHTF is, “Are you ready, willing, and able to fight for everything you have?”. This includes your home, preps, wife, daughter(s), and even your own life. If yes and you are well prepped, including weapons training, then you have a chance. If not, then it will be “game over”.

        Another facet of SHTF will be that “He who hesitates is dead”… and not just “lost”. Decisive and violent action may be needed very quickly. If there is hesitation to do what is basically repugnant but an immediate necessity, it will be ineffective and will have terrible and probably permanent consequences. This is something that everyone should sort out in their own mind BEFORE the SHTF.

        • The quick and the dead,,,

      46. @SHTF, Of all the time I have been commenting on this site I have never been negative with my comments, is it the Attached link I’ve added that you wont let it though Moderation..

        • It came through brother,
          Mac was most likely living life so it took a bit,,,
          Patience brother, patience

          • Kalu its funny you would say that, I always thought my name was slow down, nothing ever goes fast enough for me. Thats why half my post are unreadable. There are three things I cant do, an Attorney, Dentist and I have to hire a trucker to bring my hay home. And none of them ever move fast enough for

            • Thats funny because im the same way, impatient as hell, thats why i have taught myself how to do so many different trades and such, cant stand waiting for some idiot to get around to it or get it done, i got it, get out of the way!

              • I am the same way Kula. Get the hell out of my way and get it done. One thing that sets me off, is people throwing trash on the ground for somebody else to pick up.

            • Years back I saw a video of a Chechen beheading a Russian soldier all in about 15 seconds. They hate each other. Or a few months ago, ISIS lining up Iraqi Soldiers on their knees, with their hands bound behind their backs, and then mowing them down in execution style. And you know damn well before they were shot, those Iraqi soldiers thought, “I should have fought harder.” That is why we as Americans need to always give it our all in every way possible, and never give up, ever. So if you die, you know you gave it your all, because you still have a rifle in your hands, empty or otherwise, and not sitting in a row on your knees wimpering. Wudda Cudda Shudda.

            • The self reliant person never has to wait on thetime & pleasure of others to get things done. Know How & Self Reliance are the best preps you can have. Those two things cannot be taxed or taken away & redistributed to the parasites. I drove truck for years. I did pull one tooth one time. a wisdom tooth It was infected and really bad went to two different dentist and they wouldn’t pull it. they prescribed anti biotics and pain killer . the pain killer was too weak. then I remembered some morphine left over from a famly members bout with kidney stones. took the morphine and with a pair of pliers and pulled and twisted until I finally got it pulled. I represented myself in small claims court as my own attorney once. I lost however it was still cheaper than paying some attorney and still losing. Every lawyer ive ever had dealings with wound up costing more than it was worth. Lawyers are all liars & cheats. And almost all of our elected federal office holders have a law degree. When SHTF we need to get rid of anyone who has a law degree.

      47. We are about to see a World where Man tries to eradicate God. Then God let’s Man live without him….at first ok. Then the wolves come….

        • Ugly, And we too will see a World where Man keeps trying to defend this Hoax. However, as you were promised, “if you believe, he will save you right?” So what are you worried about? WereWolves? Just Hold up your Christian Cross and see if that will stop them dead in their tracks. Right? You are a believer right? Give it a shot and see how that goes. lol Many religious folks will soon realize Darwin was right.

      48. In the detroit area this is what’s happening , the people who lived there ,(let’s call them mr cricket) mr cricket burned down this neighborhood. So, mr cricket has no place to go but the suburbs. Now, the little crickets are in roving gangs stealing anything that’s in sight, in broad daylight.the older crickets are on welfare , free housing,free food , and free to do what they want. The police can’t stop them, the people that live there are prisoners in their own homes. Can’t sell them or leave them in fear they will be buglerized .
        So, any disruption In their free life style will re start the 1968 riots .there is no doubt this will happen.but the thing is ,is that there is so much hate for the crickets that the most sanest ,nicest, people are ready to exterminate them. They would be lucky to get put in a camp to be fed, but like it is written here , 50 million armed Americans are not going to carry these genes into the next generation.
        To be clear, all of the people are prepped and waiting ,hate will be the fuel .once it starts there will be no stopping it.hatered runs deep here…

      49. I had to laugh about a comment concerning .22 LR ammo….

        for gods sake, this round will kill a human well past 300 yards………….if you have a Ruger 10/22 and a few loaded mags, you are a one man Army…………

        The Russians developed a .22 LR sniper rifle, after falling victim to so many .22s in Chechnya…so who am I to argue with them……………

        • While you are trying to work out bullet drop for a 22 at 300 yards I just drilled you front and centre with my 308 and am looking for my next target……

          A 22 has it’s place, don’t get me wrong I really love all my 22’s, but trying to neutralise a threat at 300 aint one of ’em!


          • Don’cha just love these keyboard commandos, Aussie?

            A .22 won’t stop a friggin’ groundhog reliably at 40 yards. Been there, done that. No more.

            Yah, a torso hit from a .22 can kill a man. If there’s no medical help at all, he may die in 2 to 5 days, of infection. What it will not do is disable him unless you hit one of a very few vulnerable spots no bigger than a silver dollar.

            Now, I’ve seen guys at my club range who have spent $500+ on upgrades for their 10-22s, and they still can’t hit a 6″ gong at 100 yards more than 50% of the time if there’s any wind. And that’s at a known distance, with nobody shooting back. At some unknown range in the region of 300 yards they’d have had a better chance with a shotgun and 00 buck.

          • And after you’ve fired at that second target, a guy on the other side drills you.

            The disadvantage of a high-powered rifle in an urban environment is sound signature. Your .308 has great big sound signature. That guy with the .22 rifle with an improvised suppressor doesn’t.

            In an urban environment, most targets of opportunity would be under 200 yards. Well within the range of a skilled marksman with a .22. (not withstanding coach’s buddies who evidently can’t shoot) An average to above average shooter should have no problem getting a head-shot within 100 yards with a good rifle. A head shot with a .22LR will take anyone out of the game instantly…I guarantee it. At 200 yards, a suppressed .22 won’t even be heard. The .308? Your first shot is definitely heard, and your second shot marks your position. It’s only a matter of time until you are tits up.

            At longer ranges and out in the field, I do not disagree that the high-powered rifle is a better choice. But in an urban environment, a .22LR will get the job done.

            Have a look at this article:


      50. Obama is importing more left wing soldiers as we speak. They poor across the southern border by the thousands. He feeds and houses them, because soon he will use them against us.

        • American citizens graduating from high school and university are finding the going is very tough out in the world. Once the illegals learn how hard it is to make it in America armed with their meager third grade education they will turn to a life of crime to grab their piece of the pie. Being prepared now means preparing for the inevitable wave of violent crime about to be unleashed upon the American people like lambs before the slaughter. Between violent street gangs and a predatory police state, your average sheeple are little more than a speed bump.

      51. Always interested in Selco’s been-there/done-that reality check.

        Read through the entire thread of comments here. Wanted to say several things.

        Too much ammo? I believe you can have too much ammo. The first time you try to move it, you’ll realize what is ‘too much’. In the scenarios presented here, there may be times you are forced to me mobile. What you can grab and go with may be all you have in the end. Nice to think that you will be with your preps for the duration but reality always tends to bite you in the ass.

        Someone mentioned their Glock 40 as their one-and-only weapon. I have no problem with that from a ‘defense-only’ standpoint. A handgun is extremely limited in its scope, but as they say, ‘a man with one watch always knows the time, a man with many watches is never sure’. Being confident and competent with a single weapon is nothing to be ashamed of. Also goes back to my principle of having to move fast.

        While a handgun may not sustain you during an extended firefight with well armed, well trained opponents, it will certainly keep you safe in your home and is concealable during movement. Long guns are not.

        Again, know the limitations of both you and your chosen weapon.

        Mindset is important. We are moving into this knowing we are right which makes the decision to drop a hammer on someone less ambiguous than someone else defining your enemy and sic’ing you on them. I recall Jeff Cooper stories of men, not sociopaths or thrill killers, in post-shooting debriefs showing no signs of PTSD. In fact one British gentleman, when asked how he felt said “Jolly good.” Wrap your head around the fact that you will keep you and yours safe without compromising your core beliefs and everything else will fall into place.

        Many, many ideas of ‘how it will happen’ have been proposed. I see it this way. We are being set up and provoked into a bad situation. The porousness of the border has already let in our next false flag event, IMHO. Coupled with the influx of illegals/undesirables streaming into the country, inflating the already enormous number of gangs and you have a recipe for disaster. All TPTB need to do is wait for the inevitable clash to begin and pull back to ‘observer’ positions. The slaughter that ensues after that will be unprecedented (and unreported). Like many of the large cities in Europe, they have given our enemies a foothold in our own communities. Like Detroit and Chicago are now, any city can quickly become. San Diego, NYC, Philly, Houston…. no one is exempt. There is just no way to sustain the huge numbers in a hostile scenario.

        Hence my name. Hide and watch. I think the best thing you can do in the immediate aftermath of any event is to hunker down and only shoot what comes to your door. Being outside will only make you a target of opportunity. You can defend no on if you’re dead. Literally hide. Literally watch. Let the rabble kill each other off in the first volley. Nothing will be settled in those days/weeks anyway. Simply bloodletting. Let the cannon fodder fall. Conserve your ammo. You’ll need it.

        The second volley will be much more difficult. They will be the winners of the first volley. And they will be hungry by the time they fight their way out of the inner cities and make their way to the suburbs and outlying country. They will not be afraid of you or me and they will be experienced by then. Have a plan to deal with them ‘en masse’. This is when the man with only a handgun will regret that decision.

        Remember, retreat is not a bad thing. The goal it to keep you and yours safe, not personal or political gain. My feeling is, the ‘order’ that will be restored after this stage will be as oppressive as anything the world has seen. Once the rabble has proved their worth, they will be exterminated. The New Orleans style clamp-down will attempt to break us all down. That will be the fight; the resistance. Everything up until the government ‘restoring order’ will be simple survival. Have enough food, ammo, balls, compassion and common sense to make it through.

        Hide and Watch.

        • simply excellent!

      52. John Kerry will save the peace process in the middle east. He is a man of honor and truth. NOT! Kerry tricked the Irish Catholics of Boston into believing that he was one of them so he could get their votes. All the while Kerry knew his own grandfather was a Russian Rabbi. Kerry knew his father changed the family name so as to run for office in Boston, Mass. Kerry lied for decades about his own ethnicity and religion. He carried out the lie for more than six years after the truth had leaked out. The MSM was silent. They knew what would happen if they covered the story.

        • PT.
          An Irish Jew. Now that is a contrasting point of view.

      53. Cities will be death traps
        without electrictiy or water, things go fast
        and without daily shipments of food trucks they are in big trouble.
        And when the panic evacuation hits, the highways will be parking lots with looters going up and down the line taking what they want
        Which brings up the BUGOUT mantra, yes if you live in or near a big city but if you are rural or in a far flung suburb, i say BUG IN as you have shelter and your supplies right on site
        besides how many of us can AFFORD the cabin in the mountains anyway

      54. Not being clairvoyant, I have no earthly idea what is going to happen an hour from now much less six months or a year out. So how do you prepare for the unknown? One thing I do know is that even those with tactical knowledge and some gear will be hard pressed when challenged by an overwhelming force. Any position can be overrun be they rich or poor. See Colonel Custer for details. Nothing wrong with being prepared but it’s not all about gear and fortifications. Part of being prepared is also about staying alert and being very very nimble. Worst comes to worst, if you can’t carry it, it’s trash.

      55. Possible Epidemic? The Chikungunya Virus Is Starting To Spread In America

        “Cases of the chikungunya virus are appearing in the United States at a level that is far higher than anything health officials have seen in recent years, and now there are two confirmed cases of people that have not even traveled out of the country getting the virus.

        That means that the chikungunya virus is starting to spread in America, and once it starts spreading it is really hard to stop.

        Instead of spreading human to human, this virus actually spreads “person-to-mosquito-to-person”…

        Fortunately, the U.S. has not really been affected by this disease in recent years, but an epidemic has already been declared in Puerto Rico, and some experts are now saying that it is only a matter of time before we see one in the United States.”

        “Now 30 states that have confirmed cases.”

        Chikungunya Virus
        Symptoms – “With illness onset, the person develops high fever, chills, and joint pain, followed in some by a rash on the trunk, limbs and face lasting 3-4 days.

        Muscle and joint pain last about one week. JOINT PAIN is often severe and in some people lasts longer, up to SEVERAL MONTHS.

        CHIKV is usually not fatal. There is no vaccine available to prevent CHIKV infection.”

        Protective steps – Wear long sleeves and pants; install secure screens to windows and doors to keep mosquitoes out; sleep under mosquito nets; stay indoors with air conditioning; wear permethrin-treated clothing and use an insect repellent.

        For a full list of approved insect repellents visit link:

        To reduce the breeding of mosquitoes:
        “Keep water barrels, cisterns and water tanks covered with a lid; empty standing water in old tires, tin cans, bottles, trays, etc.; clean out clogged gutters and flat roofs where water may have settled; change water frequently in pet water dishes, bird baths and plant trays; as well as trim weeds and tall grasses, where mosquitoes seek shade on hot days.”
        -State-Journal dot com

        • Ky Mom.

          I just love this shit! No offense to you.

          Nobody going to do anything till it hits home. Can’t wait to have a few get this virus. Me? I have had a few turn me inside out but it is those who go on in life without a care. When it gets them then the whole world has to comfort them or heal them, RIGHT NOW!
          Some of the steps to combat this bug are simple but most will not get off their lazy ass and do anything. So you and I reap the benefits of their stupidity. Soon I expect to be in the middle of it with all the other bugs coming into our country. Sanitation, Disinfecting, proper cooking and treatment for many old and new bugs will be a priority. Hepatitus, HIV, cholera and typhoid are all in the shadows.
          Keep up the good work KYMom.

      56. Unfortunately Selco is telling the truth.There are many here who profess a faith in Christ who will become the most merciless of killers, and many who talk so tough that will have a change of heart and begin to value life. It’s the stress. I remember being so callous as to be ready to skin puppies for slippers.There is an element of the demonic as well…whatever that is. Hell will be unleashed on Earth,and I can hear some of you saying “Bring it on!” Do the Devil’s work and you shall recieve the Devil’s wages.It’s a fair trade,and by all means you hearty souls…you shall still die.

        • Jonah, I believe truer words have NEVER been spoken on this site. Well put indeed.

      57. One thing we keep in mind is surviving in a collapse is akin to winning the lottery. All you’re doing by being prepared is buying extra tickets.

        But all it takes is one lucky asshole to get lucky with a wild shot from a few hundred yards away and you’re just another statistic.

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