The ‘Die Off’ Will Start Immediately After a Complete Collapse

by | Feb 23, 2011 | Emergency Preparedness | 112 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    In his book One Second After, William Forstchen, paints a grim picture of a post-apocalyptic world in which an electro-magnetic pulse has wiped out the entire power-grid infrastructure of the United States. Utilities like water and electric, transportation systems, cell phones, and even vehicles are disabled by the blast. The book focuses on one particular town and the challenges they face going forward.

    One of the key issues becomes what is commonly referred to in the preparedness and survival community as “the golden horde,” a term introduced by James Rawles of Survival Blog:

    As the comfort level in the cities rapidly drops to nil, there will be a massive involuntary outpouring from the big cities and suburbs into the hinterboonies. This is the phenomenon that my late father, Donald Robert Rawles–a career particle physics research administrator at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories–half-jokingly called “The Golden Horde.” He was of course referring to the Mongol Horde of the 13th Century, but in a modern context. (The Mongol rulers were chosen from the ‘Golden Family’ of Temujin. Hence the term “The Golden Horde.”) I can remember as a child, my father pointing to the hills at the west end of the Livermore Valley, where we then lived. He opined: “If The Bomb ever drops, we’ll see a Golden Horde come swarming over those hills [from Oakland and beyond] of the like that the world has never seen. And they’ll be very unpleasant, believe you me!”

    As the fictional, but quite realistic, crisis in Forstchen’s book grows deeper, and city dwellers spread throughout the countryside looking for essential resources, the people were forced to make hard decisions. They could either share their food and resources with the horde, thereby decreasing their own survival rate, or, they would have to aggressively defend their land. Like most would do in that situation, the town chose to keep what they had to themselves, and send all others packing, by force if necessary.

    If the worst were to ever happen – and we’re not talking about a short-term disaster – but, rather, an all out collapse of the world as we know it, including a complete grid-down scenario and a breakdown in food production and emergency services, the majority of the population in the regions(s) affected would likely perish. In a recent report the Center for Security Policy suggested that in such a scenario 9 Out of 10 Americans Would Be Dead Within One Year – a terrifying thought, indeed.

    Considering that most people have less than a week’s worth of food in their pantries, no medical supplies, and absolutely no idea how to operate without electricity, one can guesstimate that the die-off would begin almost immediately after the grid goes down. Within several weeks, tens of thousands would succumb to starvation and/or disease. In many cases, dehydration and the elements would also become a key factor. Patriot Nurse recently put together a commentary discussing Who Will Die First, in which she breaks down the highest risk groups into sub-categories, which we’ll discuss, in part, below:

    • Physically Disabled
      Those with medical conditions requiring daily drug dosing, as well as those who depend on third party medical care, would likely be the first to go. During Hurricane Katrina hundreds of elderly people were left to die in hospitals and care facilities. They had no food, no clean water and no medicine. Their caregivers, in some cases acting immorally, but in other cases simply acting out of fear, left them without assistance. Those who are dependent on others to stay alive in modern society should consider who their caretakers are, because when the SHTF, chances are that an employee working at a nursing home will choose to go home and be with their family, or flee the area altogether.
    • Individuals With Drug Dependent Healthcare Needs
      In One Second After, the daughter of the main character is a diabetic requiring insulin. Within hours of the grid going down, pharmacies are overwhelmed with patrons attempting to get their prescription medicines. The electronic systems are inoperable, further complicating matters. Even for those who were able to acquire their meds, the supplies were only temporary, because within a week the shelves were empty and no resupply was coming. There are roughly 1.5 million insulin dependent diabetics in the United States. Because this particular drug requires cold storage, in a grid down situation, effective supplies would be depleted within a matter of weeks. In this particular instance, the fatality rate would be nearly 100%. The same can be said for many other types of medications, including oxygen. We urge those with drug dependent medical conditions to treat this aspect of preparedness like water and food. If you will require medicine, try to create a reserve by stocking up some extra medication. For those requiring cooled medicines, do you have an alternative energy plan to keep a compact refrigerator going?
    • Physical Handicaps
      When faced with a survival situation, in general, the old adage “survival of the fittest,” applies. Those with physical handicaps, especially those requiring external locomotion, like those little scooters we see people riding at Walmart, will be at a disadvantage. They’ll be easy targets for looters, and will likely be incapable of foraging for food and resources. For some, the handicap is self-manifested, such as in the case of excessive obesity. In these cases, an emergency preparedness plan should include getting physically fit. For others, however, conditions can not be treated easily. Physically handicapped individuals should take steps now to determine their action plan in the event of SHTF. Do you have a caregiver who you trust to get you out of a bind? Perhaps looking to relocate to an area where extensive travel post-SHTF will not be required is a good idea.
    • The Government Dependent Welfare Class
      Patriot Nurse refers to the individuals in this group as those with a “stereotypical”  cradle-to-grave mentality. Of course, not everyone in this category is stereotypical, but we can certainly understand what she’s getting at. The majority of these people live on government subsistence, therefore they likely have no ability to procure resources before a disaster. At the onset of crisis, they will likely be looking for help from the same organizations that have provided it in the past. But those organizations will be unable to assist. Many of those within this category will die-off from lack of food, clean water, disease and violence. Given that, in general, within this category is the highest violent crime rate in the country, it will be from within this group of people that we’ll get our first taste of looters, gangs, and violent thieves. Some criminal elements will certainly survive, but violence begets violence, especially in a battle for resources, thus a good portion will be killed off by those defending themselves.
    • Yuppies and Neo-Hippies
      Another name we can give this category is the urban and suburban city dwellers. Though they may be different politically, and possess different skill sets, the majority of those within this category simply do not have the necessary survival tools to make it. Neo-hippies, as defined by Patriot Nurse are those who may be capable of small-scale agriculture and raising micro-livestock, but their ‘peaceful’ nature has not prepared them to handle aggressive and violent behavior aimed at taking the resources they produce. The Yuppies, generally defined as those who live in suburban McMansion style homes are simply ill-prepared. Rather than preparing for a crisis, they spent their hard earned money on new cars, TV’s, fashion and dinners out. When the SHTF, they will simply not be ready and their pantries will be empty within a week’s time, at which point they, like the looters from the welfare class, will be left with no choice but to head into the streets looking for supplies.

    There are, of course, other sub categories, but the above covers the majority of the populace. A good portion of those with the capability to travel, be it on foot or in a vehicle, will eventually head out of the cities. The realization that the system has broken down will not take long – perhaps a week or two – before they hit the highways.

    Their destination of choice will likely become National or State parks, lakes and coastal regions, or small towns, where they expect to find food. Most will have no more than a tank of gas, giving them a range of roughly 300 miles from their home city. If you are located near an interstate highway, or even a state highway, within 300 miles of a major city, then you may very well see a golden horde of cars. Those without cars will go on foot. As they get further out of the cities, they will begin to perish due to lack of food and potable water. On foot, their range while lacking in resources will be maybe 50 – 150 miles.

    Safety in the Country?

    For those living in exurbia or rural surroundings the situation will certainly not be as dire as for those bunched in the cities. However, it will likely be just as dangerous. Eventually, elements from the cities with both, good intentions and bad, will reach you. If you are in a small town, and the town fails to implement defense strategies, then it can be easily overrun by organized and heavily armed gangs.

    You’ll also have to deal with those of your neighbors who failed to prepare. Even though people may have gardens or livestock, their ability to maintain these will be threatened as traditional feed stores and tools will no longer be readily available. In One Second After, the story revolved around a small town in the middle of nowhere, yet a large portion of the population died off simply because there was a lack of resources. Even hunting became difficult, as game ran thin because everyone in the area was looking to have squirrel for dinner. The additional threat in the country is that, generally, people in the country are well armed with long range hunting rifles, a situation that presents quite a bit of peril if that person is aware you have resources and they are lacking.

    The Die Off is a worst case consideration, and one you should be familiar with before any such event occurs. It will occur only in a complete collapse of the world as we know it and would include a complete breakdown of our electrical and utility grids, communications infrastructure and food transportation systems.

    Yes, it’s unlikely. But given that our entire way of life is dependent on modern day technology, such a disruption would have severe consequences for all involved.


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      1. While most preppers deep down share a sick twisted fantasy about the breakdown occurring (myself included)  once it were to actually start, most would regret getting what they wished for.

      2. and to go along with this discussion, here is the best place I have been told to buy antibiotics anonymously. They charge $25 for shipping no matter how much you buy so stock up. 

        Remember the class of Antibiotics of Tetracycline’s, can cause renal failure after they age, the rest just lose potency.  I am not a doctor but I know someone who has holds Zithromyacin (z-packs) Keflex (cephalexin), and Amoxicillin.  These will take on most any bugs you will encounter.  You can also order injectable antibiotics, but I do not think they last nearly as long, and must be used with much more caution.

        Another that may be handy in a life or death situation are the fluoroquinolones (Cipro, etc.) but Do some research before buying as many reports of them being VERY dangerous are surfacing, but in a life or death situation you may have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils.

        Again, I am not a doctor, I am not giving medical advice, I am just passing on some info someone else I know gave me.

      3. Say goodbye to the millions of “pets”, i.e. cats and dogs (yum, yum), not to mention wildlife. And we’ll see massive indiscriminate, clear cutting of accessible trees to heat homes, e.g. neighborhood parks and that beautiful tree in your front yard.

      4. oops forgot the link… my friend has purchased from them a number of times, all quality meds, no issues, whatsoever. It is technically considered illegal to buy these without a prescription, but you can go buy the same exact meds for your animal friends at TSC or a pet store without one so we know its purely greed that drives that law.



      6. This propect does concern me and if it would happen I feel we are all stuck. I have relocated to the country but with corn etc at record highs the people around here still have thier head in the sand.I have given up trying to strike up a conversation with them about this possibility because they think I am a fear monger. However, if it does happen, I feel we will have a bit of time to form alliances with other folks. People around here are into canning, gardening,etc so I feel we will come together rather quickly. At least I hope so. That said I don’t think there is a high probability of this ultimate,sudden collapse happening. More probable is a financial collapse so it will take time for the sheeple to realize what just hit them so I hope the gas supplies of the golden hordes will deplete fast so they would have difficulty getting out of cities to far out rural areas. If they do make it,the lead, copper markets would see a spike in consumption. Prepare for the worst and pray for the best. God Bless, James  

      7. If you have medications that require refrigeration, get a propane powered fridge from an old RV.  I just picked up a large mid-80’s Norcold brand in excellent condition for 200 bucks from Craigslist.  As long as the coils don’t rust through it will work.  A large model will run about 1.7 years on 250 gallons of propane.  A smaller model still having a separate freezer will run 2.1 years on 250 gallons.  The Craigslist seller said that he ran a small battery powered, low speed fan inside the fridge and he almost doubled his runtime on a tank of propane because it kept frost off of the internal cooling fins.  Search for “rv refrigerator fan” on EBay.

      8. The good part of a complete collapse is that it will be a wake up call to the entire world. Everyone will know who the great “I am” is. I still stand by my 2012 prediction for the collapse to take place.

      9. Comments….. Get those gardens started now and be ready to survive when the lights go out. Now is the time. Water and seeds will be worth more than gold. You cant eat gold.

      10. An EMP event is about the only realistic event that could bring about what this article describes. So I imagine one has to access how probable that is.

        To me at least, it seems a slowly deteriorating economy is the most likely. That translates into higher food & fuel costs, greater unemployment and the social stresses that accompany these things.

        As the article details, don’t expect rural areas to escape the consequences. Keep in mind that fuel is imported/refined/distributed from urban areas and flow out in a supply chain from there.
        Same for 95% of the everyday things one uses in their house.

        With fuel & transportation outrageously expensive, it is even possible that rural areas will suffer more than cities. 

      11. Si vis pacem, para bellum

      12. I am ready. Have been for 2-3 years. I know many who are not, however. It really pains me to think of the elderly and sick, of whom I know several persons, including my own parents. I fear for them when the end times draw nearer. I will not be able to provide for them all.

        That I think will be one of the most difficult things to deal with, is knowing you can’t help everybody, particularly those you love who live far away. That, and the communication breakdown that is sure to accompany the collapse.

        It will be a test of intestinal fortitude for sure.

      13. @ double wit
        “While most preppers deep down share a sick twisted fantasy about the breakdown occurring”

        “Knowledge is structured in Consciousness and Knowledge is different in different States of Consciousness.”

        I believe what you are trying to express is that the various systems that we have all been brainwashed to “believe in”, don’t work. They were designed to fail at some point in their evolution. “They” knew it and now, many innocents are understanding the vile and twisted picture.  As long as few prosper on the hardships of the many, i.e. a system that doesn’t “support ALL life”, then it’s only natural to see that form of functioning come to an end. In that respect, collapse of such a system is a natural and automatic desire. To regret that would be to go back to the status quo.

        Any sane person would wish to see and end to the death and destruction taking place on the path we are presently on. A total breakdown in the corrupt behavior of any human should be joyously embraced on all levels, no matter how it manifests. It’s long over due and couldn’t have come a better time in the evolution of humanity. It’s going to be a great show and I’ve already purchased a front row seat.

      14. The first two groups are abundant in my immediate area (home health care for several neighbors; several long term care places a short distance; a dyalisis clinic; people near me on insulin and stupid lazy fat folks of all ages.    The survivors will have to go to bartering,  and the last two groups will be dangerous for a while until they are killed by others, or disease.  Cats can eat birds, mice, squirrel or starve.  People will cook and eat pets, possum,  raccoon, rabbit, etc.  Farm animals (horses, donkeys, pigs, cows, etc) will be stolen and eaten.  James: I used to talk to others, but haven’t in several years..Any one over 25 should know what’s going on, otherwise they are stupid and useless to their families and society.   Forget them; others  that are like you will show up and work together.  However, always keep your guard up as more people become desperate.  I do encourage younger folks not to raise a family as this country is trashed with a dark future.  Not to mention the expense.

      15. For those that are trying to figure out how to keep the flow of medication coming, you might consider the book “Food is your best medicine” by Dr. Henry Bieler. Start now to wean yourself off the meds. The body is quite capable of healing itself by itself. Just needs a mind that has the clarity, purpose and fortitude to lend a hand and to know when to get out of the way. Besides, medication will soon become obscenely expensive or simply not available.

        Part of the massive “awakening” that’s going to fall into all of our laps will be the acknowledgment that each of us is responsible for the situation each of us gets ourselves into. The quality of our personal health is a reflection of how we have cared for ourselves, thus far. The beauty of this “transition” is that we will either consciously choose to connect with who we are as humans or resist the inevitable and be force fed, kicking and screaming,  the reality of our new environment.

        How does that commercial go? You can pay me now or you can pay me later.

      16. The die off has probably already started, it is just not being covered by the media. 

        The so called Elite may have their bunkers and guarantees of safety, but what will they be surviving for?  I believe they are well aware that nuclear facilities will likely be violated by the angry starving mobs.  Bombs will go off.  Why all of a sudden build a seed vault if you believe the known natural world will survive what you are about to be causing?

        In the end, I expect to be free by death long before the world would be worth living in after such a collapse.  I suspect that many of those who are prepared to survive will be praying for death within a month.  There is only so much a human mind can take.

        Maybe I am crazy for suggesting the thought, but why not include a cyanide pill (or equivalent) in your preps.  At some point it may become your most valued possession and the only way to save yourself from more torment than anyone should ever have to endure at the hands of criminals.  At the very least, you would have control over death even if you lose control over life.  Or like Tom Hanks on the island, you could be left with control over nothing.

        Excuse the morbid post.  I am not suicidal, but you should be prepared to end things earlier than the situation will do it for you if it came to that.  What would be better, to watch your wife and children to be brutally raped and murdered, or giving them a way out so they can die in peace?

        Just something to think about.  But not for too long.

      17. With a name like “Gods Creation” seems like your a bit off kilter with that post. The “cyanide pill” is a bit dramatic I’d say. You know the saying, “What you put your attention on, grows and grows.” Sounds like you’re going to attract that which you are so fearful of.

        Listen folks. There will be die off. It’s just the nature of the imbalanced  world that we are all so intimately apart of. If YOU are imbalanced then there’s a pretty good chance you will fall prey to the suffering and pain of that psychology. Not everyone will be dropping the body on this event. Many more than what we might  believe will make it across. Half the battle is having the right attitude. If you are down, then you attract down. If you are up, then you attract up.

        Your post is a bit melodramatic. Whoa is me. Snap out of it and get to work. Go to all your neighbors doors and wake them up and if they don’t wake up then move to a neighborhood/community that is awake. Wide awake communities are out there (I know that for a fact), but you can’t sit there and day dream of a life somewhere beyond this realm. You chose to manifest this time around and it’s time to take care of business.

        The nature of life is to grow and progress towards greater happiness, in every action. Always. Those who want to make it will make it. Those who don’t will (directly or indirectly) take the cyanide (blue) pill. It’s your choice and the options are still wide open at this stage.

      18. Thank you for the link double wit – I just ordered som Climax Spray! I think I will spray this all over my wife when shit falls apart since she doesn’t want to support my efforts in prepping (I still prep though).

      19. You can fend off the die-off by increasing your supply of crisp, new $10 bills;  these can be exchanged for medicine or other goods.

        You can also cut blocks of ice from ponds or city fountains, cover them with sawdust, and they will last many months.  This ice can then be sold to survivors for their supply of $10 bills.

        Be sure to get your money from the bank BEFORE the EMPs, in conjunction with the expected Solar Flare and Chinese NETHAX completely destroy everything on Earth that contains wire, including books with the word “wire” in them. The ATMs will no longer work, and the crisp, new $10 bills will remain sequestered within, awaiting future generations to free them from their metal and plastic prison.

      20. Scott,

        Well if she doesnt support it now,Tell her she will be pimped out by you so you can both have something to eat  when SHTF! A women has one thing that can make money in bad times . If its a choice between food or starvation  its time to give a little up for the cause . Good that you are prepping because thier are those that like men as well.You will be amazed at what hungry people will do to get food  .

      21. European American,

        I know the post was something that most will never consider.  It reminds me of a movie I saw, but I can’t recall the name right now.

        Seems someone was going into space (or somewhere) and part of his “travel kit” was a cyanide capsule.  When he asked why he was being given that, the guy said I can tell you a lot of reasons to have it, but  we give it to you because of the things we can’t even imagine.

        I am certainly not down about things.  My life is OK so far and I am as ready as I can get.  Got cash, got silver, got food/water, got a roof.  A part of me wants to see justice done to the criminals, but that is beyond my control. 

        Ensuring a way out, even if it is through death, gives me control over at least something even if someone else claims to have total control.  I would rather them beat my dead corpse than to allow them to inflict pain on me through torture which will never end until I die naturally.

        While the options are wide open at this point, the trouble will only start when the options are gone.  Who knows what will happen when that occurs.

        All I am saying is to be as prepared for the things you cannot imagine as you are for the things you can predict.  Having an off switch could save you from the torment of a life not worth living at the hands of criminals who don’t care what they put you through.  Why starve to death in a FEMA camp just so you can live the experience when you can deprive the abusers of their joy.

        I hope nobody, including myself, ever has to resort to such a measure.  But oddly enough, it gives me peace of mind to know I can stop whatever is happening around me if it is bad enough and I choose to do stop it.

      22. Here’s hoping that anyone depending on a supply of $10 bills (new and crisp or not) wakes up to the realization that while you can eat them, they’re likely not at all satisfying, their dry and they have no nutritional value.  Further, it’ll probably make you constipated.  Better to keep some for the immediate post-SHTF days when cash will be king, because roughly 1 second after someone realizes that there will be no normal resupply of critical resources (gas and food), they’ll be worthless.  So take the rest of your $10 bills and buy something of legitimate value, like water filters, long-term storage food, gardening tools and supplies, medications, etc.

      23. Eur. american:  are you for real??  No one (unless they’re nuts) visits their neighbors anymore, (unless they are close friends, which is rare) ;  much less knock on doors.  This isn’t the 60’s,  and most neighbors barely speak.  Anyone over 25 either knows the facts or doesn’t.  I wouldn’t blab my biz to others!  They will  remember you got stuff when shtf!   Use common sense and quietly prep. family.

      24. @EA…no, I expressed EXACTLY what I meant, but thanks for “enlightening” us with your philosophical drivel.

      25. The book  LIGHTS OUT by David Crawford is another excellent read for those who have read ONE SECOND AFTER.

        Gods Creation,,,,, The movie was CONTACT starring Jodie Foster.

        I agree that the unprepared, and those who are dependent on others and/or meds, will suffer the most. When people begin to realize the cavalry isn’t coming to save them, their animal instincts will take over. And you may witness horrible acts by individuals who are determined to do whatever is necessary to provide for themselves and/or their families. Very scary stuff indeed. Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket. Robberies and burgularies will also increase as the chaos escalates.  Gear Up & Good Luck

      26. They forgot to mention the Latin Hordes from the south that will wreak havoc looking for food and more….

      27. @ Laura M.
        Sounds like you need to work on your social diplomacy, if you are that fearful of your neighbors. If you don’t know your neighbors L.M you are in deep shit, DEEP SHIT! Hiding out during the transition is fantasy world, i.e. you’re doomed. The odds are against you already with that kind of mentality, i.e. doors locked hiding in the basement. If your neighbors are as dangerous as you are presuming they might be then that proves how susceptible you already are, right now. Anybody, or family, who thinks they can do this alone is living in denial. When your food runs out or they come knocking to “ask” for food, what’s going to happen then. If you have food, they will know it, no matter what you say. And if you lie to hungry people they will come back with a vengence. When you run out of food, then what? Scavenge the land like animals? Is that your plan, is that what you want? I think not.

        This transition isn’t going to be two or three weeks long or  two to three years. This is a life-style change for the rest of our lives, period. Those with the best chance of making the Transition with the LEAST amount of discomfort, will be those who combine forces with other like minded “friends”. If you think that’s too “60’s” for your liking then that’s your problem, not mine. FYI, my neighbors are as prepared as I am, if not more so. So don’t paint a picture for others here that it can’t be done. And I know many other neighborhoods that are set up similarly.

        @ double wit
        I rest my case with you.

      28. My husband read the book, I just scanned it, so maybe I am missing something, but I think in most areas, the government will play a much more significant role in trying to save everyone.  At least where I live, there are a lot of “educated”, unprepared people who will demand government control for the higher good.  They will be a significant force to reckon with since they will have nothing to lose and nothing to do, but demand attention (can you say civil riots?).  No doubt, they will use local police force (pistols still work after an EMP) to insist everyone contribute to the common good.  Much will be confiscated.  The rationale will be to stop unorderly food riots and violence. 

        We are fortunate in this County.  If we closed the County border, we have enough farmland that everyone could “pitch in” and farm enough to sustain this population (assuming seed availability). 

      29. As far as cyanide capsules go, watch the movie (or read the book) “On The Beach” where the residents of Australia watch the world die bit by bit as a cloud of nuclear radiation spreads around the globe, and they know they’re next. The government hands out cyanide pills and when one young mother objects, her husband frantically explains that if she dies of radiation poisoning, leaving her baby behind, what will become of the baby? And wouldn’t it be kinder to give the baby cyanide, and then take it yourself, too? I don’t have cyanide (don’t have a clue where to get it) but my doomsday kit does include lots of sleeping pills, which can be used for getting some sleep, or for ending it all.

        • In the movie “Children of Men”, It was called Quietus.
          A painless suicide kit the government handed out to the populace.

      30. @shoemaker, i have had discussions on this matter ( i am in the public safety field)with just about everyone in my field (LEOs  included)about what would they do if a “global changer” event happened.  The answer was pretty much all the same for LEOs and everyone else, “when the checks stop coming(or are worthless) or when I have to worry about my family back home (most LEOs live nowhere near where they work anymore, different municipalities/countys and even sometimes a different region) I’m heading home with my guns”  I think it is irresponsible at best to expect the local governments to be able to protect you.  I will be the a**hole who says it first, if the lights go out or TEOTWAWKI happens, im out the door to get moving to my SHTF plan… And good luck taking what I have the cost to you or the locals will not balance out to a benefit for anyone

      31. And what county might that be Shoemaker? 🙂 Also, don’t worry about seed, Shoemaker, MONSANTO will be there to provide you with all the seed you can afford; year after year, after year!

      32. Comments…..guns guts and more guns,
        ps dont forget the ammo

        • It is now 4-03-13 and we are even closer but haven’t gone over the edge yet. Guns are scarce and ammunition is almost impossible to find. In 2011 you could buy a box of 550 .22 LR at Walmart for $16.95. Today Walmart has no ammunition. If you can find .22 LR ammo 550 rds would run anywhere between $200.00 to $300.00, if you can find it. I just wish I could go back in time and reply when this post was initially posted. I bet most of you would think I was crazy. If I told you that our government was now trying to take our guns you would probably say something like “that could never happen.” In 2013 it’s happening. I wonder what someone in 2015 will say about my post reply, if there is a means to do so in 2015.

      33. Let’s see, let me summarize how the comments usually go on these posts. Forgive my sarcastic sense of humor:

        * OMG the end is nigh, here come the marauders.
        * Obama did it. Check his birth certificate.
        * Get right with God. We’re all getting what we deserve. OR God will take care of me. I’m ready for it to end.
        * Screw the sheeple. I got mine.
        * The NWO Elite?Freemasons/Zionists are all knowing. Get your ticket to the FEMA camps so you don’t have to wait in line.
        * Quick! Bomb Iran.
        * Why are we worrying about this? We should be ragging on the Muslims/Mexicans/welfare recipients/liberals/et al.
        * Alex Jones said it so it has to be true.
        * Only 666 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes left until Dec 21, 2012 [actual count as of right now]
        * Buy all the gold and silver your pack horse can carry.

        Then you get the cooler heads:
        * Get your preps done. Sit back and watch.
        * Yeah, it’s unlikely.

        Forgive my jest, but some of these themes come out every time.

        This is a “high impact, low probability” scenario. If you prepare for the more likely “low impact, high probability”  scenarios, you should be covered for this as well. I’m more worried about the slow collapse more than EMP. This is not to say I don’t think it’s possible, just less probable.

        There’s a fundamental reason we should prep – so we can be secure, debt free, and self-sufficient no matter what the disaster.

        @double wit – Thanks for the linkage . I have a friend who might try that pharmacy out although he’s worried about giving his credit card to someone overseas. Probably will get one of those burner CC at Walmart and use that.

        @Laura, America is one of the places in the world where people are most separated from those they live near.  At the new employee orientation at the university I work at, two faculty members, a Russian and Brazilian, spoke about how they had to adjust to getting to know Americans because no one ever invited you to their home. All social interactions take place outside the door and there is no real community. They weren’t used to that distance.

        I’m not saying that I’d tell all my business, because I don’t, but we could all stand to know a bit more about those around us to find allies and know our enemies. :)  I know my neighbors – the ones I’ll help and the ones who get none.

        Keep your heads on straight. There’s a little truth in all of the above. Focus on how the rich, of every political affiliation, race, and national origin, are robbing the poor and building their fortunes on our backs.

      34. More doom news:

        The delinquency rate on credit cards at all commercial banks dropped for the sixth straight quarter to 4.17% during the October-December period last year, which is the lowest level since the second quarter of 2007 according to new data released by the Federal Reserve.  That’s quite an improvement in credit card delinquencies over the last six quarters, especially when compared to the all-time high of 6.75% in the second quarter of 2009.

      35. Serious CMEs occur around every 150 years, so we are overdue. Revelation describes a large CME that burns up one third of the earth. If its not your third, you’re ok. If it is, you are a cripy critter istead of a coccopuffer.

        Just sayiing. Anything less than a massive EMP, pole shift or a nuclear device is only an inconvenience.

      36. Eur. American:  You must live in a perfect town, ideal neighborhood!  My dumb butt neighbors live strictly for their self and people mind their own biz.  I’m not a busy body like you are,  and I don’t think it’s wise to Q others and tell anyone what to do, and pry into their personal stuff.  You lack common sense..   Patriots have always failed to band together, infighting has been rampant for decades that’s why patriots are  total failures as an org./group and why I don’t join any tea party or any org. of any kind.   Most are infiltrated by gov. agents.   They produce zero results in spite good intentions.    So, get a life and focus on the safety of your self and family, and since you are in a perfect neighborhood anyway there’s no reason to knock on everyones door  and boss people around.  Quit trusting in people just because they have a nice smile or personality; they will use you in the end.  You sound  very young and naive.

      37. So in a nutshell, LM, sounds like you just don’t have any friends you can trust, which means you don’t have any friends. Must be lonely. You sound very old and senile. Sorry for you.

      38. @EA…you’ve got a case alright, better see your doctor for some medication for it.

      39. God’s Creation:

        You’re a complicated man.  I’m sure you had the best of intentions when you set out on your “cyanide-suicide” post, and you were careful to disclose that you aren’t a suicidal person (in spite of the fact you did close out your original post confirming a cyanide pill in your possession).  However, I can’t let this one slide without being addressed.  I know this isn’t a “religious” forum, and neither of us can ever be construed as authorities in these matters (even though we both present monikers suggesting otherwise yourdaddy and God’s Creation), but this site reaches too many people who MIGHT think you are on to something morally acceptable…and we both know that just isn’t true.

        Don’t take my word for it, here’s JPII “Life, one’s own and that of others, cannot be disposed of at will: it belongs to the Author of life.”

        Or God’s Word: Deuteronomy 30:19 –“Choose life says the Lord, so that you and your descendants may live.”

        Contradicting both of those, you offered the following rather uninspiring dribble:

        “You should be prepared to end things earlier than the situation will do it for you if it came to that.”

        gives me control over at least something”
        “of a life not worth living at the hands of criminals who don’t care what they put you through.”

        My take on your position, is that you desperately want to control that which is not yours to control.  Sure, everyone that reviews the dire and fringe scenario you play out (torture, murder, rape) and compares it with the alternative you suggest would most likely jump at the chance.  However your argument is a non-sequitur.  As a self-proclaimed Christian, it is assumed that you hold fast to a certain number of non-negotiable tenents…One of which would be the sanctity of life (in ALL circumstances).  Yet, here you are proffering an “acceptable” deviation from this belief based on your subjective take.

        To better focus this argument, let’s focus on the source & summit of our faith…Jesus Christ.  Prior to his farce of a trial, he was fully aware that he would fall victim into a heinous scenario much like the ones you suggest.  But rather then run (or in this case, induce a medicinal suicide) he walked straight into the fire.  Obviously, he was on a mission, and that mission was the world’s salvation, but regardless, he NEVER deviated from his core beliefs, he never took the easy road out, and he accepted suffering as God’s Will…(You might want to broaden this discussion up to the tenet of “Redemptive Suffering…But that’s a whole another discussion).

        In any event, Jesus made it clear that a life spent in devotion to him will lead to persecution (even death) when he tells us in

        John 15:20- “Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.  If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.”

        My guess is you will accuse me of taking your posts “out of context” because I un-hinged your argument from your premise.  However, this issue has an infalliable premise that is not open to interpretation, subjectivity or conjecture…  ALL life is sacred.  Period.

        For you to post anything less then that in a public forum is reckless at best, and a grave moral issue at worst.

        I’m stepping off my soap-box now.  Just having a hard time believing that Christians could be so derelict with their own faith (promotion of suicide here, and defense of overpopulation on another string).  For any non-Christian looking in, we send an awfully confusing & contracting message when we display the lack of Solidarity and Unity of belief this faith was built on.

        In Truth

      40. By all means, lets make this about being Christian.

      41. Just in case you don’t know, antibiotics are extremely powerful drugs and can be very dangerous to your body.  It can cause your organs to fail, and it can cause renal failure. 

        Antibiotics can destroy good bacteria that live in your body.  The drugs could build up your tolerance to the point that there is no other drugs which will be effective when you need to treat other or new problems.
        I’ve seen first hand what antibiotics can do to you if you take it too long or for the wrong reasons.  Even doctors can make mistakes in prescribing antibiotics.  I have fought this issue myself when the doctors prescribed Penicillin to my friend, and he finally agreed with me.  And I have seen how it caused problems with other people.  ____________________________

        So please be careful when you take antibiotics. Colds and flus are not cured by antibiotics.  Antibiotics will fight bacterial infections, but they don’t treat viral infections such as cold and the flu ……….

      42.  Hey, Double Wit, thank you for the antibiotics link.  I’ve got two kids and diseases will more likely spread than in the past.

      43. True. But they’d sure help with a gun shot wound.  😉

      44. Once again YourDaddy, you lifted my spirits and sharpened my iron…I thank God for you and your wisdom. I agree that those looking in that don’t know the Lord could see this as some crazy culy group talking about cyanide pills.

        I think I am better off with what we have knowing my heart and desire to find Gods paln for me and my family and desire to survive, or “make it” as EA put it than to be rich and have 10,000 rounds of ammo adn 10 years of food as it seems some in here talk like.

        Laura, I truly feel sorry for you

      45. Oh I so hate typing………..the above post typo is “culy” it is supposed to read occult group

      46. Laura M – What kind of place do you live in?  Maybe you should move.

        Hey BJ – Check your email.

      47. Used to teach high school shop. 

        Fellow teacher was doing what teachers do best….sit around the teacher lounge and BS, and came up with this jewel one day:

        ” As you know, quite a few of the kids around here don’t know much…..but what you may have missed is, there are a WHOLE LOT MORE that don’t even SUSPECT”……

        As it turns out, that is also the case with the population in general.

      48. TnAndy – Your spot on.  Although my guess is that some suspect, but prefer to remain clueless.  “What I don’t know won’t hurt me” sort of mindset.

      49. First – G Fux , I told ya soo… na na nana! ;0)

        Second – go herbal remedy… they’re healthier for your body and stronger most often … for infections use ECHINACEA, L-LYSINE, 1500-2000 MG OF VIT C, GARLIC, ONION, ETC ETC…


        Use your bodies natural immune system… as for arthritis joint pain and intestinal problems use – tumeric root – circumin -etc etc…

        do the research and look into making your own colidial silver distillery… it works – don’t abuse it all either, alittle goes a long way!

        and exercise – start walking today…

        arm up stock up prepare…

      50. All this talk of cyniade pills and doing oneself in…I guess I was raised in a stronger generation!!! I grew up in the countryside (farm land) and grew up with heroes like John Wayne, Gary Cooper and the like.  I’m not comparing myself with them but I will not kill myself no matter what.  I will always hang in there and fight to the end.  No matter what the situation is I’ll be there till the end either way.

      51. Hey Bruno, I think your yellow suspenders are choking off circulation to your brain. Keep posting though – I enjoy the comedy.

      52. RafterManFMJ (mushroom?),  you’re going to need a good quality iron in addition to your supply of crisp $10 bills. Because if the off chance you get a wrinkled $10 bill, you’re going to want to convert to a nice crisp clean one. Since FRNs are 25% cotton I believe you should be able to iron it to pristine crispness.

        May I also recommend mylar sleeves for each bill – you wouldn’t want fingerprints and/or dirt/oil to smudge your much coveted exchangeable paper.

      53. BTW Ingles has triple coupons this week (up to 50 coupon).  So stock up.  Someone was talking about Krusteaz pancake mix.  If you have the 50 cents off coupon, it was around 80 cents a box.  Date 2013.  I also got Jamine rice and yeast for breadmaker at a deal. 

      54. I read Fortschen’s book, although it’s interesting, the odds of anyone doing that to the US are very slim since they too would be victimized by the same attack or much worse.
        Still, I have been thinking about the possibility and have made extensive plans just in case an EMP or a bio attack does occur.
        I now have a water well & pitcher pump on my property along with a gravity filter.
        I have oil lamps, spare oil and wicks.
        I live in the suburbs away from the savages in the inner cities, have about a year supply of food along with a year supply of propane.
        I have seeds, gardening tools and an acre.
        Since I know that people will get desperate and not nice, I have plenty of guns, spare parts & ammo as well.
        Let’s hope this doesn’t happen since the police and other bureaucrats would quickly turn rogue on us and a serious civil war would ensue.

      55. BJ and Eur. Amer:  You’ll be one of the first ones robbed and killed because you are too trusting.   Both young and stupid?   I have seen backstabbing in churches, patriot groups, vet. org.,etc  and so have many others.  I will assist Oath Keepers when the time comes; however I’m not a “member” in any org./groups as they so far have all failed.  I live in a middle class area;  around me lots of retired and working gov. employees.  Can they be trusted? who knows; I’m simply not a busy body; bossing people around or a “know it all” like you do.  This truly is unwise.  Husband is retired army and will support (not join) Oath K along with others we know. We stay low profile and don’t go around “preaching” or dictating.

      56. I think if the collapse does come, it will be very unfair to us men.  We will have to do all the fighting, stealing, looting and bartering for what, scraps?  All that going on while the women just put a sign outside their lean-to saying, “One sex act, for one sandwich”.  The women will do just fine, and may even GAIN weight during the crisis.  Now, just WHO would give me a sandwich for sex….  who would want sex with ME, a fangtoothed, hunchbacked, bowlegged, scaly skinned, demented half mongoloid?  No, the crisis will not be fair. 

        • emptyhandkiller:
          I really do appreciate some humor here. It all gets too serious after awhile. Thanks. Chuckling with delight in Sebastopol, CA.

      57. It seems what we really need here is a super-sized vat (think really, really big here) of Blue Bonnet margarine and a giant squeegee with which to spread it.

      58. Laura m. your to old and I doubt you can run around the block which means you will camp in. Camping in will lead to you being taken down if and or when “it” ever happens.

        My daughter asked me the other day “daddy what would you do if someone came into our yard and started steeling our fruit and veggies”. I said I would shoot them. She said really, omg. I said no probably not but I really don’t know.

        I was zulu 6 0311 Charlie Company Marines, highly trained etc. And I doubt I would shoot a man for taking an apple. This has nothing to do with being to trusting Laura m. this is simply being a human being. If the world was coming to an end within the next few hours due to a rock from the sky about to hit I would have a neighborhood party to celebrate the life we had been given.

        I was at UHaul the other day looking to pick up some boxes and a lady sitting there waiting for help said under her voice “go to Walmart they are cheaper”. I said I am getting out of this town and going to the mountains so I need some boxes. She casually said “I am just going to get a gun”. I said really, have you ever had a gun before? No was her response. I said well then I guess that means you’ve never shot a person and watched them struggle to their death as a result of your actions. Watched them shit themselves, pee their pants and scream in agony while throwing up all over the place. She said you don’t have to be so graphical about it. I said your probably right it will be more the movies you watch on the TV instead of how I described it. I said can I ask, will you shoot the person for a piece of bread to feed his daughter or just because they accidentally walked onto your property, and who will bury him and where will you bury him? She couldn’t answer.

      59. yourdaddy,

        I have no problem with your comments, other than you assume I view God and religion the same way you do.  Being a creation of God means the Christian God only to Christians.  My view of God and life would probably blow your mind, but each Mans relationship with the universe is his own.

        Wheedle, thanks for pointing out the movie.

        All I was pointing out is a prep that many may have overlooked and not even considered.  If you read the post and said I don’t need to keep a way out with me, more power to you.  Others may decide they would like to have it.  More power to them.

        You can put your faith in Jesus, but you may be dealing with cruel and evil men who want to inflict pain on you just for the fun of it.  I have a right to put a stop to such abuse if I maintain the ability to do so and the willingness to sacrifice my life to avoid it.

        Like I said before, it is just something to think about.


        As to European American and his inability to understand why the people no longer see there neighbors, it is the fear spread by the local news.  Michael Moore went to Canada and people there don’t even lock their doors.  They do not fear each other as we have been taught to do.

        It is not the people at fault, but the collapsing culture that we were all brought up in.

      60. Comments…..   I have to agree with you Laura M.   I absolutely believe that being low key and anonomous is the way to go.  One doesn’t have to revert to savagery, neither does one need to be a mother teresea.   I quit trying to convince people of what is coming a long time ago.  The normalcy bias is just too strong.  I mean if you can’t even convince your own family, you’re not going to have much luck otherwise. (me)     I only converse with people I know who are already preppers, and have their own stuff.  we compare notes so to speak.
              I do intend to help my immediate neighbors, as I need them to help guard the area, and have my back.  This is not humanitarian on my part, but just commonsense.  I live in a suburban area that still has a lot of farms around, and most people have guns.  I have known my neighbors for over 30 years, and feel my best chance to make it is to hunker down.   Bugging out to my rural relatives is an absolute last resort. But it is a one tank trip,and  I’m sure the decision to leave would  have to be made at an early enough time.
             we all know there are way to many scenerios to cover all the bases ideally, but adapability will be the key.  Once the basic preps are covered, this will allow the best success of adapting to whatever situation comes up. All we can do is give it our best shot.  This will be more that 99% of the rest of the population.
            Keep plugging away, and don’t stop till you have to.  Good luck.

      61. One Second After was a pretty good book. However frightful the possibility of the scenario depicted, it was a book that really made you think, and contemplate what may or may not be possible. And a few things that I hadn’t really fleshed out during my imaginings (i.e. sacrificing the family pet for the greater good of the family/community, the desperation of those requiring insulin, etc.)

        And I am also giving more thought to the impacted radius of the big cities, once the cars stall from EMP or simply running out of gas. And just how far the golden hoard, as it’s put, is willing to walk to maintain their own survival.

        Some may call this all fear mongering, but if you don’t war game these things in your mind, you may not be ready to confront such things when its on your lap, and chaos all around. I’d rather play it out in the sanctity of my (currently) quiet, and rural home, over morning coffee, watching the wildlife out the window. I think that’s more productive.

        But I will say this. For those that haven’t read James Howard Kunstler’s ‘World Made by Hand’, do so. It’s a great alternative read to Forstchen’s book. And to be honest, Kunstler is a much better writer. I forgive him for his leftist tendencies, but he manages to suppress them in his novels pretty well.

        ‘World’ is a book that focuses on the event (buke) having already happened. There is a bit of carnage, but it is not set in quite the zombie fashion that One Second is. It focuses more on the re-building of community, finding solutions to the once-taken-for-granted technical needs, and how to cope with outsiders.

        It felt more like a ‘Deadwood’ scenario, to me. Coping, learning to adjust to the basics of life, and how to deal with personalities and the hierarchy of the group.

        Kunstler’s prose is a whole lot less…contrived, I guess. It’s a novel, but it should feel believable, like any good movie. That’s where he leaves Forstchen’s work in the dust.

        I’m reading the follow-up to World Made by Hand now. It’s called ‘Witch of Hebron’. So far so good, nd crries over many of the surviving characters from the first part.

        Anyway, that’s that. And to be honest, I observe a lot. But I too do not interact so much with neighbors these days. I have alternative places to bug out, and I already have a small network of those whose skills I will appreciate as a community contribution, as well as their trust. No need to broadcast what my immediate homestead and mindset is. But that’s just me.


        Every individual situation will be different.   Every difference will change constantly.   The ability to adapt is the greatest resource of all.  If the mind doesn’t adapt there’s little use to having all the preparations in the world.

        You must think tough to survive tough.

        You must have the resolve to make decisions at a split-second and at the same time forebearance where forebearance is warranted.  Few have this ability and even fewer are tough enough to outlast all the others at the same game.    As it has always been, the everlasting law of survival of the fittest never gets repealed. 


      63. Scott, you sound ignorant, as you didn’t understand my comment; any one that goes around prying /bragging on their preps.,etc.  to feel superior/bossing neighbors, etc. is a security problem and I wouldn’t want them to be in Oath Keepers anyway.  Some of you on this website need to real James Rawles survival blog to understand security.  Many are out in the sticks and maybe hoards will take them out, unless they band together in small communities. (this was already explained by another man’s   comment in last article.)  Many of us are not going to move to the country and hide out; not practical.  For those that do, great.  If your family is threatened, then defend them.  See Oath Keepers website and find a group in your area and attend meetings, but don’t  act like a “know it all”  or don’t Q  others biz.  There are many ego type folks in churches, veterans groups, and patriot groups that want to “run everything” their way.  Support Oath K if and when the time comes.

      64. What a negative and bleek outlook you have one life and mankind in general.  You support Oath Keepers yet you are not a part of them??? Even though your husband is retired military??  Do you have any strong core beliefs and heart values outside of yourself?  I just really have a gut feeling that all the OPSEC paranoid ones are of a not so good spirit about them and that this attitude will back fire on them. I am not syaing advertise to the world everything but some of the things I read and see in peopl;es attitude and heart is sad, sick adn rediculous….and way off base with humanity and the spirit of the great experiment called America


        European American
        February 23rd, 2011 at 10:49 pm
        Hey, dude..STFU and I don’t usually talk that way..ever!! I am on 3 prepper blogs and you, man, are the exception…we don’t talk, we don’t show what we have…I made that mistake with one neighbor with kids…hey, I don’t talk to him any more—hey, we have guns and let him know it…capiche???
        He may think he’s going to the church when the stores are empty—but so does everyone else..the rule of a prepper is don’t talk about prepping and don’t talk about prepping!!!

        And, hey, I know my neighbors—that’s why we are armed!!!
        Screw them—they had the same opportunities as we.   What??? they don’t watch the news(I don’t) or buy groceries or are too busy with their heads up their butts??
        God gives us wisdom–use it and don’t even start on my church members with blinders on!!!
        When the time comes, God will lead me —he led Moses and then closed and LOCKED the door to the ark…..
        I am so sorry about this rant.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      66. BJ – Watch your mailbox. 

      67. BJ:    My husband doesn’t want our name on membership lists period; the So. poverty law center has Oath K. on their list incl their leaders as bad guys (ha ha). Many good org. are listed since the SPLC is communist. No need to join something on paper; you can support them if and when the time comes (men in the front lines will need supplies, etc.)  Since there are phony’s and infiltrators in all org./groups and always has been, (study history) I just don’t see the need to join/put my name on every patriot group in the country.  BJ you sound so ignorant, if I didn’t have beliefs/values out side of myself,  I wouldn’t have mentioned Oath K.  yes, I have given up on mankind in general: study world history and you’ll understand. Politician scum are corp/banker puppets and you can trust in them if you want. This is why we  quit voting 25 yrs ago and are detached from the community and civic groups (hypocrites in general, same goes for churches):  just use the internet for personal “church” stuff. Control freaks rule in any org. group this is why patriots fail miserably to reach goals.

      68. I think our reality will fall somewhere between what we see today and what One Second After portrays.  I think the book World Made by Hand is certainly much more cheery and realistic if economic collapse is our undoing.  Here’s a link for it.  Nice little video.

        No doubt we are going to hit very hard times in the next couple of years or even decades.  However unless we face something that hits us fast & with no warning like mulitple nuclear bombs or an EMP strike, that level of devastation is unlikely.

      69. Crazy house today and having a hard time keeping up on all the postings between here, email and I am going to check my email now.

        Someone who had some silver coins I was going to buy once I finally got paid from the not so nice guy I did a butt load of shoveling for all through the middle of the nights for extra cash, emailed me and said he no longer wanted to sell them to me cause since we started talking about it a week ago thru email, silver has gone up 3 dollars and others now have adds on Craigs list offering to buy silver for 21.5x face value…..I was so bummed and ticked at the guy that took so long to pay me the moeny he owed me  🙁


        I have to clean this up to get it posted….

        Hey, dude..***up and I don’t usually talk that way..ever!! I am on 3 prepper blogs and you, man, are the exception…we don’t talk, we don’t show what we have…I made that mistake with one neighbor with kids…hey, I don’t talk to him any more—hey, we have guns and let him know it…capiche???
        He may think he’s going to the church when the stores are empty—but so does everyone else..the rule of a prepper is don’t talk about prepping and don’t talk about prepping!!!
        And, hey, I know my neighbors—that’s why we are armed!!!
        S###w them—they had the same opportunities as we.   What??? they don’t watch the news(I don’t) or buy groceries or are too busy with their heads up their BU**S??
        God gives us wisdom–use it and don’t even start on my church members with blinders on!!!
        When the time comes, God will lead me —he led Moses and then closed and LOCKED the door to the ark…..
        I am so sorry about this rant.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Laura M….my husband and I have been married 36 years—we have had THE conversation also!!!

      71. GA MOM,
        Wolrd, sure seems easier huh? I don’t think anyone can predict with much accuracy exactly how things might play out when the crash happens. I think  quite realistically the scenario could be made up a little of every scenario all hodgepodged together, a little of this one and a little of that one. But here is where I don’t think I am seeing much awareness and what I see definitely happening should we see anything like that video played for the book World. I think for sure America would be invaded for her land and resources, anda that scenario I don’t see talked about. Only people I see people talking about defending against are fellow Americans or those people that lie to us for votes every few years. I think the whole ‘Red Dawn’ scenario is very very possible. Whod of thunk a movie I loved and watched in high school could actually really happen in the once great nation and greatest experiment ever……..America

      72. Doublewit.  Thanks for the suggestion on a place to buy antibiortics – alldaychemist. 

        I did some online research & there are mixed reviews.  Some people say everything is fine.  A good number of them said that the site is not secure & they are getting fraudulent charges on their credit cards & debit cards.  Someone suggested using a pre-paid visa card to place your order to minimize the risk.  Or to use a Visa & then cancel it right after you use it.

        And the final risk of course, is customs intercepting your package.  All in all it might be worth the risk.  I might try it out & re-post the results.

      73. “Many of us are not going to move to the country and hide out; not practical”
        -Laura M.

        In Hawaii, gasoline is already over $4 a gallon in some places for 87 octane ethanol blend.  People who live in rural/remote areas, as I do, are used to being self-sufficient.  An EMP blast over the mainland won’t affect me – and it won’t effect mechanical diesel engines.  So we make our own biodiesel and ethanol fuel and soap and collect our own water and grow, catch, hunt, fish, or barter out own food.  We handle our own sewage and many of us are either off the grid already or can switch to solar/generator, or horsepower.

        I wouldn’t worry too much about hiding out in the country.  You won’t be able to get there.  The first thing you will do is try to run to the store and gas station.  Both will be empty after an hour.  Then you will try to go to friends or relatives so you can feel the bond of company – but the food will run out in a day and the water will go off.

        People are not going to ‘hit the highway after a week or two’.  There will be no fuel – they will have used it trying to get food and more fuel.  Then all the roads will be clogged by empty vehicles – maybe they can walk a few blocks or a few miles, but that’s about it.

        What IS ‘practical’ to you?  I’m just curious.  Do you believe things will simply continue on like they always have?

      74. BJ.  I’ve thought about that too.  Not a pretty picture.  Boatloads full of tens of millions of chinese invading our shores.  Mexicans & Central Americans streaming up from the south. 

        Let’s all hope that it never comes to that. 

        And yes, the World Made by Hand video doesn’t seem so bad – it makes a bad situation seem survivable.  

        I think mental illness will be a huge killer if the shtf.  Depression would be rampant.  Nice books like this help you think clearly.  Knowing that many will survive – in a different world – but still alive and functioning.  We cannot survive without hope.

      75. Sorry about the confusing post above at 1:37pm………it was supposed to be directed at Bill and I forgot that important little part  😉

      76. The religious aspects of these postings always facinates me. Each obviously has a firm belief and in having it makes a flawed jump in logic.

        Let me explain. For about 15 years I wore the uniform of a US Army soldier in some capacity. I even did a short tour as a drill corporal for basic training and OSUT (one station unit training 12B).

        In 12 weeks of training, we trained young men to kill on command, kill instinctively, just kill. We did this in a location that had peace. We did it without ever putting an enemy in front of them.

        The vast majority of these young men have strong religious beliefs. Religion never keeps them from travelling to far away exotic countries, meeting exciting people and killing them. A few have emotional problems afterward (PTSD), but most find a way to reconcile their actions for god and country.

        With this in mind, you do whatever you’re gonna do. Believe what you will believe. Just keep in mind, this will not be a training exercise. There will not be an after-action report and critique. There will be no “retraining and retesting at a later date.” No grading on a curve, hell there won’t be grading at all. Pass/fail.

        For over 35 years I have seen our gov’t use extraordinary means to prevent inevitability. I have no reason to think the gov’t will do anything but. However, those who fail to plan, plan to fail. No decision is a decision.

        In the final moments before grades are handed out, it would be faulty logic to assume that others hold your level of faith in the same regard. Just as your expressed fears on this board are not shared by me.

        My oath was to the Constitution. NOT to gov’t and never to my neighbors. Each has a choice: ally, non-combatant or target. You are grasshopper or ant, herd-beast or free.

        In the end we all die and be there a god, he will sort it out. The question you need to ask yourself, “Can I and will I seek to live?” If it goes to chaos, you won’t have the luxury of time to decide. There are the quick and there are the dead. Which is it gonna be?

        BTW save us from your competition for resources and take your CN pill NOW! If your choice is suicide, why prolong the agony? I’m glad your ilk is far away. You lack the courage to act decisively and I doubt you have the courage to take your pill. Humans persevere, cowards look for a back door. I intend to hang around as long as possible and help repair the inevitable damage. I would prefer that damage doesn’t include people intent on causing more damage, but logic demands I accept that most will be feral and must be dealt with swiftly. No amount of faith stops the evil in the hearts of man, but 220 grains at 2800 fps works just fine.

        When you condition a nation to look for answers in “Deus ex machina”, they will find god. And in doing so, reduce competition for scarce resources. Don’t confuse pragmatism with atheism. God doesn’t shake the trees, he just rakes the leaves. 

        Keep you religion to yourself. You lack the knowledge base to argue. Even my fellow members of the clergy lack intimate knowledge of what goes on in God’s head. Feel free to stand on your principles; a standing target is easy. For we will find that in chaos, principles are a scarce commodity and the longer it goes on, the less remains.  In the end, man is homo sapiens, an animal with animal instincts. Most refuse to accept this and in doing so, lose thier capacity to use critical thinking skils resulting in flight or fight, usually flight/surrender.

        The pragmatist is not required to discard optimism. I shall remain optimistic that we can make it through this coming transistion with minimal bloodshed. I refuse to bet on it.

        In order to be “my brother’s keeper”, he must cede complete control to me. My Constitution outlawed slavery. Ergo, I will not carry your weight. You are not my responsibility. Everyone has access to the same data. Your failure is your problem.

      77. BJ & all readers!    People have been exposing China wanting to come over here on EB5 visas to work in free trade zones; then to become citizens; they are here NOW   and this was exposed on American Free Press, Rense, Eagle Forum and 4 or 5 other talk shows this past month.   China wants our land, resources and have the money to move on in and will take over gradually.  Dr T.  Ott exposed this several years ago and laid out their plans. Open borders also bring in Muslims, Mexicans and middle eastern “refugees”..more on this on a later article on shtf.  google in: Chinese working in free trade zones,  much info online on this; Glenn Beck hasn’t mentioned it..Many think he is a phony and a shill.  Fox news ceo is a cfr member too.  Haven’t heard anything from the talking heads on “faux news” on this subject.

      78. Laura m.

        This has already happened in Greece. The Athens port, Peraieus as it is called, is a free trade zone fro the last year or so.
        It is run by some chinese corporation Cosco the name. The Greek workers have no rights at all, 14 working hours per day, 5 days a week, for more or less 600,00 euros per month.
        The managers are all chinese.
        This has occured exactly after this shity neo-liberal socialist government started to follow the strict EU and IMF directions for austerity measures and privatizations of state companies.
        Now the Chinese, having lost the Libyan ports, will try to find some other transit for their merchandise in Europe. This would be Crete, Malta, Italy, or Turkey.
        Time wil tell.

        Be safe

      79. Hey guys take a moment and watch this beautiful and peaceful video. Once you look up in the sky, all the things in your head disappears. Amazing huh?

        God bless you all!

      80. Hey guys, take a moment and watch this peaceful and beautiful video.

        Once you look up in the sky, all of your stressful thoughts disappears. Amazing huh?

        Enjoy & God Bless!

      81. @overtheedge:  I liked your comment so much I reposted it on my blog and FB, with attribution.  Excellent.

      82. I would not eat my pets.  I need my dogs to alert me to strangers and to sink their teeth into anyone menacing me.  My cats keep the mice out of my foodstuffs.  And if you think you need to eat pets first, then you don’t understand what’s growing all around you that is edible.

        An EMP wiping out electricity is a one in a million event.  More likely we’ll continue to fall apart and go broke.  The Republicans (and some Democrats) are more interested in making sure their corporate masters get richer while everyone else gets poorer. 

        In the rural areas we’re already poor and used to living on less.  However I have land and I have drinkable water.  And I’ve been stocking up on things for a while.  But anybody in a city won’t last long.

      83. Sharon SJ

        Winning the Powerball is a 1 in 195,000,000 event, but it happens all the time.  Glad you are prepared.

      84. “An EMP wiping out electricity is a one in a million event.”

        What you just said is that for every million nuclear explosions that occur over the central US, only one will cause an EMP event sufficient to knock out the power grid.

      85. Laura m. your not only ignorant because you didn’t understand my response but I am assuming fat, lazy and somewhat detached. You join Oath Keepers and your name goes on a list. You go to the grocery, gun or porn store your name goes on a list, your IP address is listed here for God sakes. Your not only ignorant your now sucking up to that you most likely just came across. Truly hoping you don’t mix your meds up to much more because we are tired of your dribble.

      86. who’s your daddy Laura? LOL

      87. @ sharonsj

        I only brought the subject up (I’m a pet owner and lover: 3 dogs, 3 cats, 9 chickens and a sheep) because there are millions of pets that will be left out in the cold when people abandon them because they won’t be able to maintain them. Sad, but it’s already happening on a large scale. As pet owners know, to feed them takes either considerable finances or skill or both. Cats are much more sustainable to keep than dogs, generally speaking, but even so, food, vet visits, etc., can put a pinch in one’s budget when one is living paycheck to paycheck.

        We have a number of 5 gallon food grade storage containers with dry food for both dogs and cats stored along with our stored food. We also mix various cooked grains with their daily rations that help offset the cost and diversify their diet. But when the distribution system shuts down and the dry food is no longer available, the pet industry will experience a die off that won’t be pretty. Yes, peoples pets will get eaten. Look what they eat in Asia. So, expect to see the numbers of feral packs of both dogs and cats in certain regions of America explode while cat soup and dog steaks becomes a fashionable diet for the starving. In the meantime, if you don’t want to see your pet suffer, make sure you have plenty of stored food (or plenty of wild game on your land) to feed it.

      88. “When the time comes, God will lead me.”

        Yep.  No use to make any plans or prepare.  God will come and save you. :-O

        @Scott: Fifth grade English:

        Your is the second person possessive adjective, used to describe something as belonging to you. Your is nearly always followed by a noun.

        What is your name?
        Is this your pen?
        Your book is on the table.
        This is your chair and this is mine.
        What happened to your dog?
        Your being here is causing some problems.

        You’re is the contraction of “you are” and is often followed by the present participle (verb form ending in -ing).

        You’re going to be late.
        Is that what you’re wearing?
        I think you’re lying.
        If you’re ready, we can go.
        I can’t believe you’re a doctor!
        When you’re my age, you’ll understand.

        The Bottom Line
        The confusion between your and you’re occurs because the two words are pronounced pretty much the same.
        The ironclad rule – no exceptions – is that if you’re able to replace the word with “you are,” you’re saying you’re. Otherwise, your only choice is your.

        It’s not ‘dribble’.  It’s ‘drivel.

      89. Scott; you are a totally ignorant jerk; I said I didn’t join Oath K or anything else, but would only support them if shtf . You need a pair of new glasses or cataract surgery! Or maybe your  on meds?   Survival blog (Rawles) has been on my computer awhile.  Not all advice given on sur. sites is agreed upon by everyone (or me)100%, dumb butt.  Lots of good technical advice on his.   I picture you as a beer drinking fat slob, barfly with no class that mis understands simple comments.  Jim Rawles has class, even tho I don’t nec. agree on everything everyone puts out (like run for the hills, etc). Get a life, stupid.

      90. Comments…..Get a life, stupid.

        Good stuff, LOL

      91. Last post to say I am sorry for having a bit of fun with Laura. Didn’t mean to do it on everyone’s behalf. Laura I run a 17:20 3 mile, don’t drink and have a masters in business administration, oh and don’t take meds. Its all good though and I wish you the best!!

      92. All this talk about solar flare, CME, EMP, 2012 is all nonsense. I hate to break it you most of you but there won’t be that one event that will ultimately bring about the collapse. The system that we live in right now will go on for probably another century or so. However, most of us that are not rich will continue to get poorer and suffer.

      93. Hopefully the dying starts in Washington D.C.

      94. You guys all sound pretty ignorant to me.  Listen to your selves.  Cripes!  I wouldn’t want any of you for neighbors if this is the way you play…..  It’s just a bunch of comments.  Your gonna have a heart attack before TSHTF and miss out on all the fun.

      95. Hey Bill, you got some smarts up thar.

        Ya gotta be easy with us man. People are on edge around here, it goes with the territory. Denial, Fear, Normalcy Bias, TEOTWAWKI, Egos, more Fear, small selves, poverty, rejection, jealousy, etc. People aren’t ready to give up their obsession with dis-orders and dis-ease and they’re getting testy and feisty and ornery and just plan irritable. If you think it’s bad now, just imagine what’s going to happen when the power and waters turned off, the SS checks stop coming in, no access to medication or booze or smokes or sugar or salt or fat or the internet. Why in the wildfire fighting world we used to call that a “Cluster F#%k”?

        But I agree, it’s all about having fun and enjoying life. Show me where it says you can’t do that WTSHTF!

      96. Wow RamRod, thanks for the uplifting post. I was going to pull a Stuart Smalley in front of the mirror to reaffirm my faith in humanity but I see I’ve already slit my wrist after reading your comments.

        Seriously, this system will not last another 10 years, let alone 100. In the event I am wrong I will go down fighting because at the rate we’re going slavery is right around the corner.

      97. emptyhandkiller — “ME, a fangtoothed, hunchbacked, bowlegged, scaly skinned, demented half mongoloid”

        Aren’t you overestimating yourself just a tad?

        In all seriousness though, it’s a good time to stock up on beauty products and moisturizers for TEOTWASKI.  Especially, petroleum based ones, to beat rising inflation. 

      98. Hey Scott and Laura M…..  I think you two should settle your differences at the Everhump Motel.  Ask for room #6, which was my favorite place to haul sluts during college.  Who knows?  After you two pork for ten or twelve hours straight, you may even start to LIKE each other!  Happy humping!


        “When the time comes, God will lead me.”
        -JJYep.  No use to make any plans or prepare.  God will come and save you. :-O

        What an idiot—I have an inventory of 5 BOBs, 3 years + of food, water, a Berkey, a wood/coal burning stove, stored gasoline, stored coleman fuel and camper cooker, 3 oil lamps, oil for lamps, backup water purifiers, like alum, boiling, pool shock, coffee filters, and on and on..
        Just because I’m poor, DON”T mean I’m stupid!!!
        Don’t –contraction for do not…


      100. shoemaker…….    You got me good there!  Thanks for the laugh, and yes, I admit, I probably was boasting about myself a bit!

      101. As a beginner prepper, I need advice: would someone please name the top 5 things I need right now.

        My list:

        1) 6 mo supply of water (but how in suburbia?); I don’t have this;
        2) 6 mo supply of food (sorry, I can’t do the “textured soy protein” garbage); I don’t have this
        3) Security: 12 gauge, deer rifle, and concealed pocket gun already in place
        4) Shelter: suburbia duplex; I live in the South; need heat only for Dec, Jan, Feb (sleeping bags?)
        5) Power/gas/heat/ice: I have a small Coleman gasoline stove I can run for more than a year on a few gallons of gas;

        Thanks and good luck

      102. Like Mark, I’ve got my seeds and garden all ready to go.  However it’s going to take some time before I can put some food on the table.  In the mean time I found a source of good non-gmo food with 15+ year shelf life.  Check out and try their free samples.

      103. I watched ThePatriotNurses video also, excellent info and this article was a great eye opener to the realities of what will happen if the system fails. Good Job:)

      104. Comments…..Just review the plan that was written in stone outside the city of Thomasville, Georgia where there is a monolith planted that has written in stone, the plan of the GLOBAL GOVERNMENT that nobody seems to know how it was installed in that particular place, or by whom, but it does state that the global population MUST be reduced to a mere five hundred million by 2025, only fourteen years from now. Will YOU be one of the ones they plan to keep around? Will you be exterminated like the 3.2 BILLION others that they fell MUST DIE by their appointed time?
        The Georgia Guidestones are the devils ten commandments for the New World Order and they MUST be taken seriously by ALL PEOPLES of the earth if we are to circumvent their plan and survive this culling of humans from this planet. They know that as the deeper the division between races and cultures grows, the easier it will be to gain control of ALL HUMANS and revive the Roman Empire of old and enslave the remaining population for evermore.
        If you compare the plan from the Bible, The Iron Mountain Report & the book by Thomas P.M. Barnett entitled “The Pentagons New Map”, you will begin to understand how the Tyranny will unfold.
        This plan is much deeper, Much more sinister, Much more complex than most people realize and only recently have there been an awakening to the reality of this devastating plan and the mass killing of humans that is soon to take place on this Earth.
        Good luck people, we are in for an exciting ride!

      105. @ Incriminally Sane
        Where on the Georgia Guidestones does it say this must happen by 2025?
        1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

        2. Guide reproduction wisely – improving fitness and diversity.

        3. Unite humanity with a living new language.

        4. Rule passion – faith – tradition – and all things with tempered reason.

        5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.

        6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.

        7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.

        8. Balance personal rights with social duties.

        9. Prize truth – beauty – love – seeking harmony with the infinite.

        10. Be not a cancer on the earth – Leave room for nature – Leave room for nature.

      106. Joe, I’d say the first thing you need to do as a beginning prepper is to determine whether or not your slice of suburbia is survivable.  Right now I’m in a town of 500,000 with plans to move next summer.  Hopefully it all doesn’t fall apart before then.  I say without hesitation that my slice of suburbia would be a living hell within a month of collapse.

      107. The guidestone’s tenets appear rather well thought out and rational to me, except the 500,000 part of course. How we can arbitrarily pick a number out of a hat is clearly ridiculous but there honestly has to be some sort of limit as to what the earth can hold comfortably. Other than that, I have no issue with the guidestones.

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