Strategic Relocation Briefing: SouthEast: Eastern Tennessee: One Of The Best Retreat Sites For People Working In High Density East Coast Population Centers

by | Aug 2, 2014 | Emergency Preparedness, Strategic Relocation | 411 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Editor’s Note: The following article has been contributed by well known relocation and survival retreat expert Joel Skousen and the Strategic Relocation Blog. Last week Mr. Skousen focused on retreat locations for those living in high population centers located in the southwestern part of the United States like Los Angeles and Phoenix. This week, we switch coasts and head to the Southeastern U.S. 

    As always, Mr. Skousen provides some highly informative insights that should be considered prior to any strategic relocation move, whether it be permanent or a secondary location to be used in case of an emergency. Whatever your locale and specific goals, the recommended strategies and selection criteria outlined in this and previous Strategic Relocation Briefings can be effectively applied by anyone in almost any situation.

    When you’re ready to start searching for your perfect home or retreat visit the For Sale By Owner listings at the Strategic Relocation web site. Real estate is available for those living in any part of the United States and most listings include survival ratings provide by the Survival Retreat Consulting team and/or Joel Skousen.

    smokey-mountains-TN(Pictured: Great Smoky Mountains, Tennessee)

    Weekly Strategic Relocation Briefing—Eastern Tennessee, Cumberland Plateau
    By Joel Skousen
    Author, Strategic Relocation and The Secure Home

    Before I cover the area of focus this week, let me remind the SHTFplan readers of the purpose of these weekly briefings. They are not designed to promote ‘this weeks’ locale as perfect for everyone, as no area is perfectly safe or meant for everyone.  These briefings are meant to be a catalyst, so you can discern for yourself from the available information what’s best for you and you’re family. If, each week after reading these briefings they begin to help you take inventory of your current situation and then make well planned decisions on what to do and where to go, then your time reading my articles will have been well spent.

    Speaking of population density; In fact, safety from population threats are directly proportional to how far away you are from people, but that also has high costs of its own.  If you get too far away from people and commerce, then your commuting costs back to civilization rise dramatically as do the cost of bringing in materials, supplies and getting skilled labor to do building and technical repairs, so everything is a compromise at some point.  Knowing how to make wise compromises is the essence of good planning. Also, we all know that you don’t have to have a lot of money to make a strategic relocation and buy a property, so don’t be discouraged. There are opportunities to live a more sustainable lifestyle, be it as a caretaker on a larger survival property or to buy your own small parcel of paradise on an owner contract, it can happen if you work towards your goal.

    We’ll be covering lots of other places in due time.  In the meantime, everyone can learn something from the analytical process we go through each week in discussing each new area.

    This week I’m focusing on Eastern Tennessee and the Cumberland Plateau as one of the best retreat sites in the SE United States—for people in the East that work in high density urban areas and need a place within a reasonable distance to retreat to.

    Fifty percent of the US population is within 600 miles of Nashville, TN, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage.  The advantage is that people who have to make a living in the big eastern cities can find refuge at a reasonable distance. The disadvantage is that you can’t expect to evade all refugees that flee the social unrest in the population centers of Atlanta and other large cities on the East coast.  Most of those waves will move inland along the major highways, and branch off into the rural countryside only after scavenging what they can from the towns closest to the big highways.  This process isn’t all bad since it absorbs the flow and lessens the threat the farther away from major cities you get.

    Tennessee as a state has several advantages for those looking for permanent relocation.  It is a “no income tax” state with a fairly moderate climate.  It has a lot of rural productive farmland too.  But it does have a fairly high sales tax to compensate for no income tax, and its population density is nearly 160 people/sq. mi. (18th in the nation).  While the state has a Republican conservative majority, its Republican Governor and Senators are very mainstream and play along with the big government agenda that bothers constitutional conservatives. Particularly bothersome to conservatives is the Governor’s allowance of TSA to run checkpoints on highways in the state.

    The Blue Ridge Mountains to the east are also highly rated—perhaps too much so.  They have attracted moonshiners for hundreds of years as well as law enforcement surveillance.  And there are complaints from new comers buying into rural mountain land that the “natives are less than hospitable” to outsiders. The western Blue Ridge Mountains, have several sub categories such as, the Great Smoky Mountains, the Bald Mountains, the Unaka Mountains, the Unicoi Mountains, and Roan Highlands, and the Iron Mountains.

    Between the Blues and the Cumberland Plateau is a series of ridges and valleys traveling at an angle parallel to the Blue Ridge Mountains.  These ridges and plateaus are important barriers to travel, and one of the reasons why this area provides good retreats.  Make sure you know the lay of the land in the area you choose because you often have to go NE or SW a fair distance before being able to cut through a ridge to go West.

    The original Cumberland Gap is the most famous historical path through the mountains and is way up on the Tennessee/Kentucky border at the town of Harrogate.  Hwy 25E goes through the gap and there are many other gaps now accessible to roads. The primary one is I-40, which crosses the plateau to Crossville and I-75 going north to Lexinton, Kentucky and both branch off at Knoxville.

    The valleys between the ridges and plateaus are all fertile, with a river, but not as safe as the mountains or plateaus themselves. The Tennessee River flows down the “Great Valley” next to the Cumberland Plateau and is dammed up at intervals by TVA dams. Knoxville is found in the north of this ridge/valley system and Chattanooga in the south.

    The Cumberland Plateau itself is my highest rated area in Tennessee for retreats because of its unique geography—a plateau approximately 1,000 feet off the valley floor, but with flat land or rolling hills on top for good homesteading. The imposing heights of the plateau is readily visible from the roads below and tends to discourages most people from wanting to go there when it is so easy to stay in the valleys where there is more food and commerce. There is plenty of water available up on top and relatively cheap-forested land, but no major cities to attract people and the people themselves are not as reclusive as those in the mountains to the East.

    I prefer the southern half of the Plateau, south of I-40, because it has a larger land area with mildly rolling terrain. There is, however, a nuclear power plant in the Tennessee River Valley (Watts Bar) at Spring City, Tennessee, east of the plateau, but it is not much of a threat since the plateau is not downwind of the Nuclear plant, should it experience a meltdown.

    Another specific drawback of the geography of the Plateau and much of the Tennessee and Kentucky region is the presence of a lot of rock just under the topsoil that makes the installation of basements difficult or costly to implement.  I feel very strongly about having concealed basement space not only for sheltering people but supplies.  So be careful to investigate the depth of soil before you buy a plot of land. Fortunately, most areas have about 2-4 feet of topsoil, so with the rolling terrain you can still include a basement by using a combination of the slope of the land and some earth berming to achieve a daylight basement, with your secure portions the farthest into the hill.

    There are a lot of large tracks of land on the plateau but very few actual working subdivisions with small tracts of land for the budget Prepper. There are several that started up just before the real estate crash and most of them went under financially.  Of those that survived and prospered, most are the higher end type of development and the nicest of those is Long Branch Lakes development.  Here’s a video review of Long Branch Lakes, just to give you an idea of the beauty of the area and what can be done on the plateau.

    Another excellent development is called Swanee Creek, at the far southern end of the plateau.  It has an active community of people who enjoy the Prepper lifestyle, with their own online newsletter where they share information and encourage community activity. has at least one of these large tracts of prime plateau land listed, which both Todd Savage and I have rated highly, and more are coming soon.  I’ve been to the plateau area several times and know several of the landowners there.  They are great people and very Prepper oriented.

    One in particular worthy of mention is Jimmy Yates, who single-handedly built up his own private rustic estate called Hard Times USA. Jimmy has placed on his property almost every kind of restored relic from the past, from machinery to antique wagons to country stores and real log cabins, nestled among the man-made lakes.  Every year on the first weekend in October he opens Hard Times USA to the public and has kind of a folk festival there with food, music and wagon rides. Here’s local website that posted some pictures from the 2012 event.  I’ll be there this coming year at the October 4th gathering.  Hope to meet some of you there.

    Not too far from Hard Times USA one landowner has small smaller, economical acreages for sale that will suit the budget minded Prepper.  For more information, Contact Tisa Dixon at this email address.

    For those of you in the East, and Southeast in particular, I think you’ll enjoy checking out this part of Eastern Tennessee.

    Survival Retreat Consulting: Joel addresses one of the major flaws in many Preppers overall planning for a major event; can you get there? Just like politics, you can debate all day as to what location is best, or the fact that no place is safe anymore. In reality, none of this matters if you can’t move quickly with your properly stocked bug out bag and actually reach your destination.

    The Cumberland Plateau allows one of the most reasonable retreat locations to arrive at quickly during a serious event, if you are unable to live full time at your retreat in another location such as the American West (Redoubt). The area is full of like-minded Preppers that are determined to survive any calamity. One could say that this area is better for long-term survival than the Pacific Northwest in many ways such as food production from the milder climate and the resilience of the population to weather and social issues.

    SRC Promotion: If you’re looking to replace your worn out batteries on your alternative energy system, take a peak at Iron Edison. SRC highly recommends Brandon and his crew now that they manufacture the world’s finest nickel iron batteries in the USA. They also offer complete packages for your home or RV ranging from 2kw up to an over 10 kw of power, for those that want a turnkey solution quickly as the world teeters on several major events. Mention SRC to Brandon or Maggie and receive a discount on your order, or sign up here.

    When you’re ready to start searching for your perfect home or retreat visit the For Sale By Owner listings at the Strategic Relocation web site. Real estate is available for those living in any part of the United States and most listings include survival ratings provide by the Survival Retreat Consulting team and/or Joel Skousen.

    Recent Strategic Relocation Briefings:

    Idaho: A Five Star Rated State for Your Survival Retreat

    For those living in Southwestern high population centers:
    Northern Arizona – The Makings of Some Good Retreat Country

    An Expanded Western Relocation Zone



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      1. Excellent information. I have read Joel Skousen’s book and it is full of great information covering every plausible retreat area in the country.

        The folks on the east coast have their hands full, but there are still places to go to be safe. I have never been to this area, but it is gorgeous and i have heard great things. If you can get along with the locals, you should be fine.

        I am sure there is a sweet spot out in Tennessee where you are close enough to the city for services or activities you might need, but far enough away (especially on those ridges Skousen describes) that access by the general population is so difficult that most people will avoid it. plus, it seems like a highly defensible area.

        • Good ole Rocky Top, Rocky Top Tennessee.

          • Stay away from Wy. We are having a terrable infestation of Stupor, Not to mention: Lions, tigers, bears. Crazy liberals (think more than 10 guns is unnecessry). Plague, Blizzzerds. Injins, Terrable ammo shortage, (I only bought 3,000 rds of 22 last year. $25.99 per brick.) Stay in S Calf it’s the best place. Nancy, Diane, and Gov Moonbeam will look after you will there. No jobs here. IF i didn’t have 47 degrees I woldnt have been able to git on as a English teacher.

            • It’s too cold. Not enough rain. Lousy place to grow crops. You’d have to be nuts to relocate there.

              • Your ill informed….wy has the incredible land….u most likely have not traveled the western half of state…..moved here from Nashville. ….never going back

                • No he’s right; It’s so dry here, at night the EPA puts oil in the rivers to stop the squeaking so we can sleep. Stay away.

                  • So why are the Preppers that are there now selling out? That’s a great question when looking to buy. “SO WHY ARE YOU SELLING??” More than likely they won’t tell you the truth or why. So go ask the neighbors of whats up in the area. Check public records months of newspaper clipping of the area. Maybe there is a zoning problem, gang problem, water problem, Go have lunch at the daily diner and talk with the locals, or a beauty shop, those people know everything about everything and everybody in the area. Barking dogs? Break-ins? Factory closings? Coal mines closing? Your retreat area may become a ghost town soon.

            • Tennessee is over rated…too many transplants, few jobs, high county taxes. Go north to Kentucky or into Amish country in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

              • Yup, stay up north. Its no good down here…too many yankees

            • Paranoid, you forgot to mention that Pine Bark Beetles have killed all the Pine trees and now there are no trees, as well as no Pine Nuts for the bears to eat, so now there eating people. Especially Liberals and those Hippe type backpackers, cause they know they’re a Gun Free Zone. Trekker Out.

            • Beware the man with only one gun

              • ….Because he will know how to use it. Great quote!

          • Massive Western Wild fires in California, Oregon, Washington State and Northern Idaho not far from Redoubt, that place claimed as a preppers haven. 14 Major fires and 33,000 acres burning in California alone. Maybe its all burning due to little Rain or water supply. Not too safe for a survival retreat.

            • Jesus, there’s danger everywhere you go. No place is 100 per cent safe, nobody lives forever no matter how hard they try….

          • L call how did you find that?

        • NSA memo: record all known and suggested locations from various forums for engagement.
          Look…I’m all for gearing up and confronting tyranny.,but when it comes to advertising these places. It’s like playing poker while showing everyone your hand
          During the Vietnam war.,the NVA and the Cong practiced bugging out and strategic relocation..but not to hide..but to position themselves to take the fight to their opposition. They were not a static force…in so much as they could walk right into the camp of their opposition, map and destabilized that grouping with minimal equipment.
          Large grouping of people fleeing and coagulating in these suggested locations is the same as when we would set up our bases in Nam..and the Cong would be everywhere around that site. The castle/fort mentality has been proven over and over again to be a losing strategy. Some of us are too far along in years to have the mobility and physical strength to move around at a whim.,I get that and so the large grouping seems to provide some sense of safety in numbers..but also makes them a mass easy target.
          The rest of us who are trapped by being in a Large metropolis such as myself are faced with 2 choices…standing our ground or surrender. If we die…we won’t be receiving any CMA’s posthumously or remembered in memorial walls or statues. If we surrender..we’ll die anyway at their hands..either in the camps or the take no prisoners format. One bunker buster bomb or an onslaught of napalm will decimate huge numbers of bug outers..and not a shot will be fired from those in hiding..there goes your preps, huge stores of .22, 556, 50 cals and whatever homemade ordinance you have. The enemy is well equipped to fight this kind of siege mentality tactic..but guerilla warfare is not so easy for them. If any of you bug out and survive the big kill will not emerge into the land of the free and home of the too will inevitably be faced with the choices that those who did not or could not bug out…stand your ground or surrender..either way the result will be the same if they win.

          Live Free or Die

          • Exactly, which is why I plan to bug out to Los Angeles, California. So, if you guys in the NSA wish to find me, that’s where I’ll be. Yup. LA.

        • What about the mountains of North Carolina, which is pretty much on the other side of the mountain from Tennessee?

          • NC mountains are too hilly to farm, gets cold, and the local hillbillies will run you off. Tennessee or Wyoming much more hospitable.

        • Bad dizeezs, pur spellin, meen peepol, nastee naybors, u ain’t be wantin’ to cum heer. go to Oreegun or other.

          Just kiddin’…NOT!

        • IMHO, you are where you are supposed to be. If you are supposed to be somewhere else then a door will open and give you the opportunity to go there. Life is quite simple if you believe in God and trust him. There is a grand plan for all of us, of this I am certain. Many years ago,God led me to a very special place in New Hampshire, I feel safe here and I know it is where I am supposed to be right now. God speed.

          • Swinging…,
            You are quite right.. but 95% of the good folks who read this blog will not understand. The Lord will guide you if you will only ask. The pity is so few ask.

        • Skousen is wrong, there are two nuclear plants, Watts Bar and Sequoyah as well as the Kingston Fossil Plant that had the one of the worst manmade disasters recently; a multi $billion ash-spill that destroyed many, many acres. Look it up.

          We don’t want any more yahoos to move here! We have been overrun by survival types that don’t know their bellybuttons from a whole in the ground. Tenderfeet are not likely to survive here. Those that have stayed are trying to put those regulations and restrictions they are running from in place here. They are too stupid to realize they are importing their misery with them. Keep the hell hole in the city, PLEASE!

          It takes more than location to survive, it takes real skill. How long do you think it will take you to learn to garden sufficiently to feed your family? YEARS! After you get enough produce it will take additional skills to preserve it. Do you think you can just run out in the backyard and find sufficient game to eat?, No, those with years of skill and a knowledge of the back country will harvest it all before you can say “Tree stand.”

          Those of us whose families have been here since before Tennessee officially became Tennessee would give a rousing “AMEN!” to the following statement:

          You are not wanted here! So, dig in where you are. If you all try to come here you will ruin it for everyone. Then there will not even be a sanctuary for your superior (read: self-indulgent, lazy, Ritalin-hyped) progeny to run to.

      2. Tennessee… I’ve never been there and I’m never going back!

        Too close to the Carolinas, where life is just too slow. Sure is purty though!

        • Slower will be much better, soon.

          • Slower will be much welcomed, “if” the SHTF along with an electrical grid meltdown.

          • On second thought, you’re probably right.

        • Went to a FL Gun Show today, it was massively packed. People buying. Got my eye on a new piece. Keltec makes a PLR-16 .223 pistol only 3.4 #lbs, 9.2″ barrel. Great for the BOV – BOB back pack piece. $550 out the door. They claimed it was a 5.56…. I checked on Keltec’s website and it only says .223 So I will wait to call the manufacture on Mon to ask for sure. If it can shoot 5.56 I’m getting it. Takes standard AR-15 mags. Put a 60round mag to 100 round drum on that killer. lol I could almost fit it in the glove box. They were selling 30 round P-Mags for $10 bucks… Oh btw/ Everybody there is pissed at Obama and his Illegal’s Invasion Implant scam. Obama is setting the U.S. up for the MS13 Gang to take over American cities. Then call in the UN to install Martial Law, then Gun confiscation. Get prepared people with your SHTF Plan!!

          • A .223 pistol a hot topic!,why?,someone wants one tis their choice,only a owner knows their situation and needs,kinda like buying boots,everyone likes different brands/styles.I would have thought even the pistol on barrel would have either.223/5.56 stamped there or the upper receiver,perhaps it is a Wylde chamber,never really decided if that is the best of both worlds or across the board compromise.I personally would build a 80% reciver and then give it pistol kit unless you already have a few AR platforms,then just get a pistol upper kit,one less sale this way on national registry,that said,really don’t see why this is a hot debate.

            • That Keltec .223 or 5.56 would be just a back up BOB or Vehicle pistol AR- due to its power and size only 3.4 lbs. That would be a back up gun, to the back up, to the back up gun as it uses any AR15 mags. Put a one point sling on it with an EOTech Holographic site for quick target acquisition. The red thumbers must be living in CT or MA, or CA lol weapons they can only look at on line. lol

              • An AR SBR with about a 10″ Rainier ultra match barrel and a compact buttstock would be nice
                I like the parts from Rainier arms, use a MEGA billet upper with a side charging bolt, duracoat it to match the foliage in your AO

                • The consideration of this Keltec was also the price for shooting an AR round. Sure I would rather have a 10″ barrel Sig Sauer 5.56 Pistol – Piston driven, but it’s 3x as much, $1500 on up and very hard to find right now.

          • @ WhoWuddaThunkIt what part of FL?

            • Gulf Coast

            • ***ALSO EVERYBODY- OPSEC- When Someone on here like Chilton pops up on here and this Comment#3196480 is their only post in this entire Blog then asks “WhoWuddaThunkItwhat part of FL?” Seriously, How about I give you my exact address and GPS Coordinates. You think the all people on here that read our comments, have your best interests at hand? 13,024 people viewed this article, and maybe 20 to 50 people actually post here. Some of our conversations on here or between each other get more personal and say too much. I’m guilty as well. Unfortunately, Do not give personal info, disclose your exact location, What you fully do for your prepping, So if you really want to know, chilton, I am 95 yrs old a woman, about to die, I live in an apartment in Punta Gorda, take a bus to the food bank, have one box of prepping supplies, and a 20 round box of ammo for my .410 shotgun, just in case MS13 comes to rob me. “So just don’t ask and don’t tell everything. Maybe Mac can figure out a better method for individuals on here to contact each other directly or email him directly to swap our info, but be aware of posting your email address, or location, etc. You get the point. Someone on here an article back gave me their email address to contact them, and Yes I would like to say hi, but I am not going to contact you. I have no idea who you are. sorry.. Lots of hackers also out there that collect email addresses, then send you some garbage spam that installs hacking key loggers on your computer, to hack into your bank account, etc. Never open any links of suspicious emails. Just hit spam delete. Also if you post a link here, or want to see what the link info is, cut and past the link address into a new page URL. Do not click on the posted hyper-link, as it may re-direct you to some rogue website capturing your IP address. Just saying, computer savy people know what I am saying here. As we all need to protect our identities and computer security. Stay safe SHTF Plan Friends. Let er’ Rip!!

          • As I wrote on other sites, ms-13 will be used as part of the Gestapo for round ups, executions, guards,etc. motivated by 3 hots and a cot and spending money. Other UN gestapo incl foreign troops, some say Chinese, Russian, etc. Anyone willing to follow orders for room and board, etc. from the gov. under UN control will go along, no doubt most will be eliminated later when no longer needed. The top dog elite have few cards left to play at this time, something will snap soon as America circles the drain never to return. Politician scum like every country trashed thru history, that helped the top dogs/dictators get control, will be eliminated first.

            • Think about this. It is against the law to bring in invasive species, such as exotic wildlife from other parts of the world as it upsets our echo system. There is also a war on eradicating the Brazilian red pepper tree that is laying waste to our forests and lowlands. The Chinese Zebra muscles that has destroyed the bottom of the Bays in San Francisco and also the Great Lakes. But when it comes to Illegal aliens Obama, breaks out the welcome mat, “come on come all” and bring all your MS13 gang members and diseases with ya. In fact he will find you jobs at tax payers expense and give you a Free Bus ride to any city of your choice where you may think you have a relative and free housing at tax payer expense. OBUMMER-Oh lets spread this invasive species of Human Illegal aliens all over America, and really destroy America in a hurry. See the Hypocrisy in our laws and how they manipulate their mandates. But if you have a pet snake or spider its jail time for you buddy. Criminals all of them.

            • Laura M. while I agree the govt. will use anyone they can get for the roundups, the only people they’ll get are those who are unarmed and/or nonpreppers. When foreign troops appear on our streets it will be game on. Gun owners and preppers are not going to surrender. They will fight. those foreigners and whoever else takes part will lose an awful lot of people before it’s all over with. I also agree that whatever Obama supporters are left will be eliminated afterwards. Communist revolutions always devour part of their own after they have come to power.

          • Yep I called kelteck manufacturing. Keltec PLR16 Pistol is a 5.56 So – its a buy!!

        • Billy,

          A slow life is a blessing during normal times. It will be a godsend when things fall apart.

      3. Anyone want to buy a BOL in GA?
        For the right price, anyhting can be sold….(sarc)

        • Since this article is about Tennessee, I had to post it, but it is funny….

          The Ten Commandments

          Some people have trouble with all those ‘shall’s’ and ‘shall not’s’ in the Ten commandments.

          Folks just aren’t used to talking in those terms. So, in middle Tennessee they translated the ‘King James’ into ‘ Jackson County ‘ language…. no joke,

          (posted on the wall at Cross Trails Church in Gainesboro , TN )

          (1) Just one God

          (2) Put nothin’ before God

          (3) Watch yer mouth

          (4) Git yourself to Sunday meetin’

          (5) Honor yer Ma & Pa
          (6) No killin’

          (7) No foolin’ around with another fellow’s gal

          (8) Don’t take what ain’t yers

          (9) No tellin’ tales or gossipin’

          (10) Don’t be hankerin’ for yer buddy’s stuff

          Now that’s plain an’ simple. Y’all have a nice day.

          • Thanks, to all here, today I turn 55, makes one wonder where the time flys, and to watch kids grow, you think how did I make it to this point of time?
            Thank you Mac, for having a place to go and read up on a multitude of subjects, vent, postulate, and even bicker between each other…
            Remember we are here for each other, hug your wife, kids, parents, etc…..

            • Eppe, totally agree w/you. Hug your animals too, give ’em treats.

            • eppe.

              55 and alive, on the right side of the grass. ;0)

              Happy Birthday

              • Happy B-day Eppe!Sling,I thought the grass was always greener on the other side of the fence?!

                • If this keeps up we will end up asking, how old is dirt.

            • Eppe, a big HAPPY BIRTHDAY, YOU OLD FART! You’re not far from me in age; I’m 57.

            • That is 55 years the bastards can’t make you do again. Happy b day.

            • (sung to the tune of Innagotadavida)

              Happy birthday to you,
              Happy birthday to you,

              Congratulations eppe! Been cruising thru the 50s for a few years myself. Times are very challenging today, but I have to say, being an old fart was never more fun!

            • Eppe: Yer so young. Why, when I was in first grade, you were just a two year old.

              • I here that shit all the time, “Oh you’re still young and look fine”.

                Now, I’m 58 and have not lived a life of ease like most kids today that have done nothing more than take out a few bags of trash and play ball sports, while most of their time is spent being a couch tater with a controller in their hands while munching on treats their momma is continuously bringing to them.

                Spoiled brats are part of the problem with America.

                Anyways, if a man has labored, i mean really worked since the age of seven, on a farm, as i have; you may look lean and mean, but you ass is really tired.
                You have the constant aches and pains of someone with fibromyalgia.

                You can’t judge a book by it’s cover.

                Happy phucking birthday eppe, you ole whippersnapper.

          • Very nice…except Sunday meeting should be Saturday (7th day Sabbath per actual 10 commandments not man)

            • I always thought that God got started bright and early on a Monday morning. But I wasn’t there at the time.

        • There are certain places in Jawjuh that will be very good locations.

          • And this is a killer spot, I love it but family sez it too far out there…. In time they will come around, I am always 10 years ahead of the pack, always….

            • US and Eppe, AMEN about GA. Off topic but important. I just got home from 2 days in north GA at the family BOL. Took some more supplies to store there for when I make my final journey there. I tested out 2 new Sawyer water filters in a creek that runs near the BOL. The All-In-One filter and the Mini Filter both worked great and gave me some of the best tasting water I ever had in my life. Not even my old Katadyn did this well. I am now totally sold on the Sawyer. One of the best investments any prepper can make. On the topic, while I can appreciate the positive things Skousen said about TN, I DON”T APPRECIATE ONE DAMNED BIT THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS HE MADE ABOUT THE SOUTH. JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF YANKEE PROPAGANDA. I was feeling good after getting back and then finding those negative comments got my blood boiling. I hated to come back to stinking Memphis but the S just ain’t HTF yet. But in the next 30 to 60 days, it just might. At least on the final trip I won’t have so much to take and will also have extra gas just in case. braveheart

              • Brave. You always predict 30 days. Why hedge and say “it might” and extend the time to 60 days? You are losing the faith are you? The one steady thing you did say is you are picking up “extra”. If you pick up extra on a regular basis, is it still extra? Wouldn’t you need extra on top of the usual in order to get extra of something?
                Glad you are back and good to see your blood boiling as usual. I worry about you.

                • Urban, thanks for that. I always do pick up extra of certain items; never hurts anything. On the timing, it is possible I could be wrong; hell I hope I’m wrong. the more time we have to prepare and get supplies, the better our chances of making it to the other side. Just look at everything that’s happening right now. If nothing breaks out before the end of the year I’ll be relieved; I’m sure all of us will. I hated to even come home, but it was a good and important trip. I now have 80% of my supplies in place at my cousin’s BOL so when I finally bugout I won’t have too much to bring. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, I tested 2 new water filters that made a very good impression on me. Some of the best water I’ve ever tasted and from a creek near the BOL. Get the Sawyer, you can’t go wrong with it and it’s cheaper than the Katadyn.

                  • I have matured and will not give you crap. Well not silly crap anyway. When I disagree with you I will be constructive.
                    Just a question for you and everyone here. Thought just occurred to me. What would be wrong with an electric car. Seems electricity would be easier to generate than gas? That is a serious question.

                • Urban.. responding to your question about electric car, why not look up how to build (or buy) a “stratified downdraft gassifier”? It don’t take too much to build one and they can run your truck OR house. I kinda modified the so-called “plans” and made mine with attached filters and all…. works good. These will run a truck about 100 miles with a load of wood. good luck with all you do.

            • Happy Birthday brother!….and as I tell my folks”there aint no such place a too far out there”…hope alls well! REB

              • OK Urban,I will bite,why not a electric car?First,actual expense,still unproven expensive little buggers at the moment(Tesla motor did make their info open source),Second,probably not good emp material if one hit,Three,don’t want to look like all I need is liz warren sticker on car to complete progressive douche look,ok,kinda kidding on three.I would much rather a good hybrid bike for pavement and dirt.That said,a really tough/old school golf cart hopped up a bit might be great on a farm ect. as a hauling vehicle with some solar power charging equipment and good/long life if maintained batteries with perhaps even extras.Things really go wrong expect for a large part roads to really be impassable and certainly not maintained thus a great bug out truck good for initial problems but soon kind of obsolete.

              • Urban, that’s OK and I never ask ANYONE for anything. On the electric car, you’ve got to be joking. First, they are still not a proven technology and most likely will never be. Second, the batteries cost so much you’d have to take out a loan to buy them. Third, if there’s a power outage, how the hell are you going to recharge them? And fourth, they’re not EMP-proof. I’ll take a good full-size gas-powered truck anyday over some Mickey Mouse car.

          • @ Unreconstructed Southron

            what do you think about Oconee County in Ga…Watkinsville area ? Maybe NOT far enough from Atlanta…..

            I have been up to the Helen, Ga area….it is a beautiful area….

            Your choice/area would be ???

            • Oconee Co. Is nice….

              • That is where I would like to live, plus the Sheriff is an old high school buddy of mine, saved a seat on the bus, so we could seat 2 instead of 3….

                I hope to take all of my families and set up a 10 seperate home commune on 20+ acres, who else can take care of your own parents, but yourself…

            • 3rdown, I’ve driven through there a good number of times. Lot’s of good rolling farmland, not too much trash, good diversity in crops, livestock, and trees, lots of game and water, and the kind of people who’ll be on the right side. I actually told some of my family that I wish I had some land down around there the last time we went through there. I don’t think it’s close enough to Atlanta to matter. Travel from sin city will be a lot slower and more arduous once the SHTF. I think there would be a lot of worse places to be in the Southeast.

          • Jawjuh, Nawlins, Joizey, them’s all furrin places to an okie.

            • Yo pobably mo familiar with Missourah. Trekker Out.

            • How about Co-luh-ray-dah?

            • The proper pronuchiation is ‘JAWJA’ but you know what I mean… Saw that on a car tag in the 80’s, always stuck in my mind…

            • And Wisconsin too. We’re somewhere in Canada.

        • Eppe- Yes I also hear there are a lot of BOL on sale right now in NY City. $1 Million on the 50th Floor. Hulluvadeal

          • It is only worth what someone will pay for….

          • I was just kidding, (sarcastic) about the NY BOL. lol You people red thumbing my sarcasm. Guess you didn’t get it.

            • I did….

      4. Well, at least Tennessee has water. But the influx of inexperienced prepper wannabees that has already begun in that area is a downside. Not mention the nose-in-the-air liberals in Nashville.

        • Best thing about Tennessee will be all the caves.

          • Not if the New Madrid begins rocking. A cave or steep hillside may become a “crash” site.

            Many folks have built along steep ridges in the mountains for the views. Even a well anchored home could become a problem if the earth starts shifting.

            Enter at your own risk.

            • Sand’s the problem, not rock. You’ll hardly every feel a tremor down in a cave.

          • Shhhhhh….

          • Little known fact Unreconstructed Southron, no need to share much more on it. At least Joel got this one right. I have commented before about the Plateau. Course I admit to being biased.

        • ‘At least Tennessee has water.’

          Not for very much longer, if the Communist cockroach who parks his half black ass at 1600 PA Avenue and his gun smuggling sidekick, Eric Holder have their way. All those fresh water guzzling mestizos who are draining the Colorado River and depleting the water in Lake Mead and who are turning California and Nevada and Arizona into an uninhabitable desert wasteland? Well, already I’m seeing discussions by these left wing mentally insane psychopaths that they might have to begin programs to migrate millions of these illegal leeches out of the Western states and resettle them….guess where?

          Anywhere that is too White and which has sufficient water and other natural resources to sustain the existing populations of those states. Note that I said ‘existing’ populations. This does not include adding millions of illegal alien leeches to those areas of the country, whereupon in few short years – the same drought conditions and severe water shortages that now plague California, Nevada, Arizona, etc., will be arriving at Tennessee’s doorstep.

          Liberalism is a mental disease and it destroys everything, every place and every human who embraces it.

      5. mtn farmer.
        Over the line in western nc is a great place if you dont include asheville, to many liberals freaks and weirdos.

        • And Satanists.

        • agree with that assessment, Anon.

          spent a lot of time there in the late seventies and early eighties.

          According to a man I ran into while on a fishing trip in Cherokee ( about fifty miles from Asheville, NC)a while back, things have gotten worse. He said he does most of his construction/remodeling work there, but would never live there because of the people. He said the people there are really strange.

          I asked him if he knew why people there were so different and wierd from most other places.

          He said he didn’t have a clue.

          I said it’s like this; “most people that end up living in Asheville, are there because they don’t fit in anywhere else in the world; kinda like rejects”.

          He said, “that explains why so many there, act like they are phucked up in the head”.


          Two other places i know of, that seem to have wierd folks and a lot of crime/drugs.
          Fayetteville, NC. and Columbia, SC.

          not to mention washington DC……..real wierd=o’s.

      6. In addition to studying warfare, don’t forget that we as preppers can learn a very great deal by watching documentaries about mountain climbing, desert living, jungle living, primitive societies, primatology, and ocean sailing.

        • Yep Acid, I have been watching Discover channel about living in Alaska. That is pretty brutal living up there. Work sun up to sun down every day. Mostly fighting the cold weather… I’ll take my hammock in warm sunny FL and a cold beer any day.

          • +1

          • i got Joels book (sisterinlaw gave it to me)dont give it a whole lot of credence once he dismissed Fl. as even being a viable place to live in a SHTF

            • I agree with him. It’s not a viable place to live after it hits the fan. Florida has about 20 million people. It’s the 4th most populous state. It has the 8th highest population density. A lot of Florida has an elevation of less than 12 feet above sea level. It’s incredibly hot and humid. It’s filled with alligators and boa constrictors. Did I mention hurricanes? So what’s good about Florida???

              • Yeah FL really sucks that why half the worlds elite come here to Vacation todump their wallets, and why we don’t have any State Income taxes or rarely ever snow or freezing temps. Yep those top rated world class beaches really sucks with the clear turquoise water and fishing, scuba diving, kayaking, fresh and saltwater fishing and dolphins that swim right up to your boat with the manatees. Yep 1 in 17 are gun permit holders and a GOP Governor that understands what the 2nd Amendment means. Yet those 12 Ft gators, 20 ft pythons, and sharks will get ya especially if you are a visitor. lol FL is the largest state in # of SQ Miles east of the Mississippi, and all the fresh water one could ever use in 10 life times and a growing season 365. Yeah FL sucks, no place for sustainability, or a BOL, for sure.. don’t come here. lol

                • You neglected to mention the mosquitoes.

                  At present, I’m sure that the State of Florida has in place some kind of mosquito spraying program that helps keep these little buggers at bay, but once SHTF Day arrives – you an bet the farm that those kinds of public service programs will be some of the first to be cancelled.

                  This means that the mosquito population that exists in the swamps and Everglades areas will explode and the entire state will be literally infested. Add to that misery the very real possibility of mosquitoes spreading diseases and plagues to the human inhabitants and you’ve got yourself a recipe for a state becoming uninhabitable in fairly short order.

                  • We also have Bats, Purple Martins and Dragon flies that eat mosquitoes. Mosquitoes mostly target people with Type “O” Blood way more than A or B type. FYI… If you were wondering why some people get eaten up alive and other rarely get bitten.

              • You all better leave Florida now while you can.

                Florida is not an acceptable strategic relocation.

              • im guessing a lot of coastal states have an elevation less than 12 ft ,but that is right on the coast .as the crow flys im about 20mi from the beach ,and im 22ft above sea level ,and as far as the 20 million pop. goes ,let me qoute Jimmy Buffet “people who retire in Fl. are wrinkled and they lean on crutches” so in sure these rich retirie’s are not going to be out in roving gangs ,and as far as hurracanes are concerned ,its all relitive ,give me a hurracane any day over a quake or tornado ,as far as the gators go if you dont bother them they usally wont bother you ,(unless some one really dislikes you and takes a big pole and shoves you in one of there holes)that said ill have to agree with WWT and slingshot ,this really isnt a place you want to be

                • RE: Florida Most Dangerous time of the day – Actually there is a very dangerous part of the day here in Florida, You do NOT want to be on the road at this time, and that is from about 430PM to just before 6PM. Cause that’s when half of Florida’s population of the elderly are all racing each other to all the “Early Bird Specials.” You do not want to be on any roads at that time. lol

                  • we call them frog necks ,because all you can see sticking up above the steering wheel is there nose

              • The reason Skousen doesn’t like Florida is because of the lack of escape routes in the event of an emergency. Too many people on too few highways.

                • California Girl. Depends what we are escaping from? Florida has 3 sides of the state to escape by boat out to the sea. There are thousands of spoil islands, and back mangrove areas and bay to escape to, and that you can only get to by boat or helicopter. Keep in mind back in the 1800’s when the Government was rounding up all the Indian tribes in the country, to send them to the Reservation FEMA Camps, the Seminole Indians in FL were the only Indian tribe in the country, to escape the clutches for this round up. They escaped into the everglades, and the US Military gave up trying. So if you look at history, Florida in one of the best places to bug out too. The safest place in the country may be out to seas, or some island out there, like the 10,000 Islands between Marco Island South of Naples FL to the FL keys. Check the map called: “Florida Bay.” And all the seafood and nature to sustain you for decades. Find an island for FREE, and set up some rain barrels and a shelter as a squatter. Joel Skousen is entitled to his opinion, or marketing of other people property. I would rather go someplace that most people would not dare to go. The majority of the weak and lazy masses will always take the easiest path, like right off the highway beaten path to a Walmart. Winners do the things losers refuse to do. I would rather look for a place few choose to go. And today’s technology we get a week advance notice of Hurricanes coming, and still plenty of time to get off an island and head inland for a few days, then come back and pick up the pieces. I would take a large pontoon boat with building materials, and build a stilt shack on some remote island, hidden under the tree line canopy.

                • California Girl. Here look at this map and photos of Florida bay, Southern Tip of Florida. Down where no Blue Helmet MRAPS are going to roll in, or tanks, or people walking up to to your property off the highway. Check out the map of islands and also the photos. Expand the map out and in.,-80.7719991,53611m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US
                  You don’t have to spend you life here cutting wood for the winter to keep warm, and shoveling snow. Check out the amazing pretty photos. All the seafood you can imagine for free. A great place for kayaking and fishing and plenty of solar sunshine to power your electronics. There are better places than Redoubt. No doubt.

                • Hey cali. girl

                  who’s trying to escape ,and escape from what ,if everything goes ugly do you think that there going to be some secret little place that no one knows about ,im with WWT if i have to leave my house though i dont plan to ,ill either slide down in the ten thousand islands or find me a high cabbage palm hammock up one of the rivers, in RE: to the indians eluding the army ,if you can find it at your library there is a good book about it ,its called letters from the frontier ,is a soldiers account of tracking them through the glade with letters he sent home to his folks ,another good book is man in the everglades ,on that note ,WWT your going to have to stop talking about how wonderful it is ,i live here and i even got excited ,else we’re going to have them piling in on us

        • This is a perfect example of what’s wrong with 98% of Americans below the age of 50. They think watching TV is an education. FAIL !!! The entire content of a one-hour TV program can be covered in two pages of a BOOK. IN LARGE TYPE.

          • Its the same mentality that thinks sitting in a classroom and getting a paper for it qualifies as experience in actually doing it…not that schoolin is bad persae but it doesnt replace livin and doin… REB

            • Oh, man – don’t let me get started. Trying to hire newly minted engineers from U of Mich in my job was hell on wheels. They wanted salaries higher than mine, and as I posted a couple of days ago, they couldn’t plan a route from their desk to the men’s room. My two best engineers had no degree at all, but they knew how to make things work.

              My long-ago father-in-law was a bank president in Boston, (and a finer man I have never known). He would have nothing to do with Harvard B-school grads. He had another phrase for it, but Reagan put it better: “They know so much that isn’t so.”

              • I getcha OC…spent too many precious hours of my life trying to talk sense into fools with papers for brains…got away from those places…hopefully for good…be safe!

        • Acid, I’ll take the south anyday. I’ve been to other parts of the country and were never really impressed with them. There’s no place like the south.

      7. yeah that’s a perfect place for you to go… lol

        Ever hear of the ruthless Dixie Mafia? the Klu Klux Klan?

        And the Southern Country Black Bucks got their own rules ways of doing things there too.

        The local White Rednecks and Country Black Buck Toughy’s will eat you alive there, I know cause I got kinfolk there who still keep a white sheet handy.

        You folks need to just stay where you are with your own families and friends, where you are established and have a history, or else your gonna run into trouble when the SHTF in a foreign town with no true community support from the locals (who hate you by the way just cause you got money and aren’t like them) to turn to in a SHTF crisis!

        You will be safest where you have a history long established roots, a family and friends support network.

        Or be prepared to fight off the locals.


        • Sheets are easy to come by, ZM.

          • You know under a sheet it’s hard to tell who’s who. So like all good secret Brotherhoods there is a “Pass Word”. I may get desheeted but here it is (Ask) hardly ever fails. Trekker Out.

            • lol ;0)… nice one @mt!

              “whats the password”


              “whats the password”


              “WHATS THE F-IN PASSWORD!”


              BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!

            • Maybe more would understand if I said let me “axe” you what is the password?

          • You mean a muslem burka with eyeholes.

        • Ignorant post.

        • Zen, while we do have some ‘bad apples in our barrel’, overall the south is still the place to be for me. I wouldn’t have it any other way. Besides, if those ‘bad apples’ haven’t prepped, they’ll die just like all of the other nonpreppers will.

          • I’ll take the bad apples in the South over the bad apples in (for example) NYC anytime. For one thing the South ain’t ALL bad apples, while New York, well………(been there, survived, never got a t-shirt. I’d have burned it anyway.)

      8. Sniper Assassination (kill 101)

        The sniper must be totally trained and accurate with his weapon. He has 216
        square inches of target to hit to be in lethal or seriously injurious areas.

        This is basically
        from the top of the head to the groin, on an average male about 36 inches from groin to
        head and roughly 30 inches from arm to arm.

        The direction the target is faced towards
        has no real effect on these figures.
        The weapon should be suppressed (silenced) to allow for follow-up shots.

        the bolt action rifles such as the US M-40, Remington M-700, and the Robar SR-90.
        Offer the advantage of not having the bolt sound when the rifle reloads itself.

        Then there
        are automatic rifle such as the SKS, Armalite AR-15, and the HK PSG-1. Which offer the
        ability to reload itself allowing the assassin the ability for repeated shots at a faster rate.

        The choice of weapon, ammo, and sights is left to the sniper-assassin’s discretion as the
        circumstances for job will be varying.

        When assassinating VIP’s it is often necessary to consider the use of armor-
        piercing bullets due to their choice of armor-plated cars. They also would come in handy
        for penetrating the bodyguards of the dignitary or any other unfortunate that might step
        between you and the subject.

        I would suggest reading up on materials regarding sniping

        • Zen M Just a 5.56 62gr green tip steel penetrators will disable a cars engine by piercing the engine block. Then your subjects are trapped in the car, and as they exit and peal off…. well you know. Mutton stew.

          • Aluminum blocks perhaps,green tips ok but want large steel core for real penetration,really not interested in blocks so much as “body armor”.

            • cold steel

              reload hot and heavy – replace your normal lead rounds with properly sized diameter solid steel ball bearings.

              • Take and pass elementary school ballistics before you post.

                • Round balls fly like…well, round balls….Trajectory of a rainbow,
                  but effective to about 100yds…Probably would not try a 100 yd
                  shot with my 54cal Hawken, but you hit a deer in the boiler room
                  with it, the animal dies very quickly….I can hit a coke can to about
                  75-80 yds with it…I don’t worry to much about groups with it…I
                  just make the 1st shot count…
                  Mostly pass thru with good clear exit wounds for good blood loss…
                  Usually short blood trails…

                  • Very deadly. That soft lead ball deformed on impact, making a gaping wound, and instead of glancing off a bone like a modern spitzer point round, smashed the bone into splinters, requiring lots of amputations.

                  • Puhleeeeze! A gamer site for a reference? Those people haven’t clue #1.

                    The poster suggesting round balls said steel round balls. I cannot think of a faster way to wreck the rifling in your barrel. And if your rifle is, say .30 caliber, you’re going to be firing a 1/4″ ball weighing what, 25 grains? Not exactly a man-killer, that.

                    The Brown Bess, of which I have owned one, was hard put to even hit a man-size target at 75 yards. The tactics of the day had the muskets fire a few volleys, usually at 50 to 60 yards, which might knock down 10% of the opposition, then the troops would charge through the smoke with their bayonets to do the real work.

              • Eh,chevy water pump usually aluminum,as for going thru plates,would like to see kevlar/plate combo and then penetration result.

      9. No where East of the Mighty Mississip is a good place to be if shtf

        • The northlands of New England are just fine,thanks for caring though!

          • And I[m perfectly happy in northeast Pennsylvania, right next to a year-round creek. PA has lots of waterways.

            • You got that right, Young Woman’s Creek for one also good trout fishing. Been there grew up there.

              • You’ll both see 🙁

            • Pa is an amazing place in its natural diversity and has many areas that are remote and empty…the area across the northern/central part of the state from around Warren/Forest county east for 150 miles or more is empty forest land….rough mountain land in many cases…spent alot of time in that region and would feel just as safe there as most anywhere…not a real good growing season overall but I know folks there who are as tough and independent as anyone anywhere and who will still be there when its all over…good place to live! 🙂 REB

        • There will be no water west of the Mississippi. And you can share all of that with the Illegals camping in your front yard. lol

          • WWTI I’ve been in Wyoming for 5 years and there’s a river that runs through it, and it ain’t been dry yet. But I guess that’s subject to change, when global warming melts all of the glaciers. Trekker Out. AE keep ridin that Mountain bike, your lookin fine.

            • Rivers are the only places with water enough to farm in Wyoming. And it takes energy to get water from the river to your crops.

              That said, I have done the run from Idaho Falls to Rock Springs, down 189 and 191. Around Bronx, Big Piney and Boulder there’s land a man could live on, even though the growing season is short.

              But it still fails my personal “access to Outside” rule, since the rivers in WY, even the North Platte, are 90% not navigable for anything bigger than a canoe.

              Platte River: “Too thick to drink, and too thin to plow.”

            • Mt Trekker, Yes sir, I rode about 20 Miles this AM today. Biking does a body good. Got to keep your body in shape for the possible BugOut.

        • You’d be surprised. There are many peninsulas, coves and even some small islands and thick marshes on the east coast where food, fish and solitude can be had. If a person isn’t heading there with intent, these places are well off the beaten path and there won’t be the masses passing through scavenging while on their way to greener pastures

          • Jave,agree,at least with the northern coasts,never had opportunity to really travel the coast farther south then Virginia.

        • It all depends on what S Hits what Fan.

        • Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Northern lower Michigan. Northern Wisconsin. Upstate New York. Parts of Pennsylvania are far from major population centers.

          Not too many places west of the Mississippi have enough rainfall to grow crops reliably without irrigation. I’ll take my chances in Wisconsin.

        • CRS Report Prepared for Members of Congress by Congressional Research Service (known as Congress’s think tank)

          Mandantory Vaccination Precedent and Current Laws

          Prepared by Jared P. Cole, Legislative Attorney and
          Kathleen S. Swendiman, Legislative Attorney

          DATE OF REPORT: May 21, 2014

          h ttp://

          By law the Congressional Research Service’s work is to be exclusive and confidential to Congress. Additionally, a provision in the appropriations bill that finances this service each year forbids it to make its reports public.

          The public has no access to the information that is shaping legislation and policy. They choose what reports they will release to the public; DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS PDF.

          Ironic, that some legislators have called on Congressional Research Service to research law concerning mandantory vaccinations just ahead of the ebola scare. Pay close attention on the date of the report.

          The CRS was founded in 1914 and their budget, our tax dollars, in 2012 was 106.8 Million.

          Mary B. Mazanec is their director, before joining CRS she worked at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) including Deputy Assistant Secretary.

          Colleen J. Shogan, Deputy Director, served as a legislative assistant to Senator Joe Lieberman.

          Don’t you feel warm and fuzzy all over knowing that legislators are asking for info on Mandatory vaccinations precedents and current laws just when ebola seems to be heating up? And the people supervising these reports are connected at the hip with the same vermin ruining our country?

          Look at todays nomorefakenews by Jon Rappoport for an eyeopening report on ebola.

          And whatever you do, run right out and ask for one of those mandatory ebola vaccinations they have waiting in the wings.

          • I will gun down anyone coming at me or mine with a poison needle.

            • crap! hide your guns boys.

              New ruling says Montana felons can’t own firearms

              The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a convicted felon, who completed his sentence, isn’t allowed to own firearms.

              The decision stems from a Deer Lodge County man convicted of rape. Frank Van Der Hule spent 25 years in prison, but he couldn’t buy a gun when he got out.

              Here’s the problem, Montana’s Constitution restores offenders’ civil rights once they’re out and off probation. But there’s a separate state law that states offenders can’t get a concealed weapon permit if they spent more than a year in prison, or committed certain crimes.

              The appeals panel says the concealed weapons law triggers a broader federal ban on felons owning guns leaving Van Der Hule out of luck.

              “When people serve their sentence, they pay their penalty to society, and I believe that society should not hold that against them for the rest of their life,” said criminal defense attorney Tim Baldwin.

              He disagrees with the recent appeals court ruling that said a federal law trumped Montana’s constitution and sided with a state law that felons out of prison and off probation can’t own firearms if they can’t get a concealed carry license.

              “If you look at the federal law, it’s a blanket law that strips away several rights for every person who’s convicted of a felony. I think that is very over broad and unnecessary,” Baldwin said.

              We looked through documents and former cases to get a better understanding for what the history behind the ruling is.

              We found that Montana has restorative justice laws, meaning once a criminal completes their sentence, their civil rights are restored.

              Federal Judge Don Malloy decided a federal ban on felons with weapons applies, because of a state law limiting offenders’ access to concealed carry permits.

              We also spoke with pawn shop owners in the Flathead who wished to remain anonymous but told us they’re happy with the ruling. They say they don’t want to have to sell to a convicted felon who may repeat an offense, feeling responsible for having sold that person a firearm.

              Baldwin thinks the ruling could affect felons who won’t repeat since they aren’t violent.

              “From a matter of moral conviction, a lot of people don’t pay taxes, yet you see a lot of these individuals who are tried and convicted of tax evasion, so should those individuals, if they are found guilty or if they plead to those charges, are sentenced and they served that sentence, should they lose their civil rights for the rest of their life? I would say no,” said Baldwin.

              There could still be appeals in the case, leaving the door open for changes.

              But for now, convicted felons in Montana, like Van Der Hule, will not be able to own a firearm.

              • Court: Freed felons still face gun restrictions

                HELENA, Mont. –

                An appellate court says Montana felons can’t possess firearms after they have served their sentences if they don’t qualify for a concealed-weapons permit.

                The July 16 ruling by a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals came in the case of convicted rapist Frank Van der hule, who was denied the purchase of a gun after completing a 25-year prison sentence.

                Montana’s constitution restores the civil rights of offenders after their sentences have expired and they are no longer under the state’s supervision.

                But the Montana Supreme Court ruled in 2009 that a separate state law prohibits offenders from having a concealed-weapons permit if they spent more than a year in prison or were convicted of certain crimes.

                The federal panel ruled that limitation triggers a broader federal ban on felony possession.

            • Experimental vaccine could help Ebola patients, RML scientist at forefront

              The basis for an experimental Ebola vaccine is a virus found in cattle and horses. It’s called vesicular stomatitis.

              Scientists have genetically engineered an antigen, or foreign toxin, like Ebola, into that virus to spur an immune response.

              The vaccine has been tested with great success on rodents and monkeys at Rocky Mountain Laboratories in Hamilton. The next step is human trials, which present new challenges.

              Dr. Heinz Feldmann’s life’s work is attracting international press. The vaccine he helped develop first gained attention at a lab Feldmann was working at in Winnipeg, Canada, in 2005. It’s a fast-acting emergency vaccine to be deployed during an ongoing Ebola outbreak. It isn’t designed for patients who are already infected or ill.

              Although Feldmann said it could be effective if a patient was vaccinated very early after infection, he said it’s mostly for “protecting family members and health care workers through a rapid vaccination approach.”

              In 2009, a lab worker in Germany poked herself with an Ebola-infected needle. She agreed to take Feldmann’s vaccine. She did, and she survived. Scientists don’t know whether her own immune system kicked in, or whether the vaccine saved her. But it did not make her sick.

              Feldmann feels confident the vaccine will not hurt anyone. He thinks it is time for human testing.

              “Testing for adverse affects in humans in a small group of volunteers,” he said, “and then looking for the immune response in humans.”

              Scientists around the world know getting investors for Ebola trials is a challenge. The disease is rare and has had limited outbreaks.

              The doctor doesn’t see the vaccine as an answer to Ebola. He sees it working in combination with other drugs and therapeutic treatment.

              He said simple procedures like better hygiene, and using gloves and masks, are a huge help.

              RML has video of Feldmann and other scientists visiting in the Republic of Congo. Teams trap bats, which are believed a source of the virus. They want to know how the disease is spreading.

              “Studying potential transmission,” said Feldmann, “how does the virus shed from the bat and how could humans and animals get infected.”

              Feldmann said a key to easing the crisis is to identify cases, isolate patients, and to contact every person who came in close contract with a patient.

              He said that is becoming more difficult because resources in Africa are limited and the disease has spread to so many locations.

              • THANKS Nina!

                • ;0p pssszzt

        • There were no less than NINE investigations and reports on the fiasco at Pearl Harbor, and they were all coverups, biased to benefit one faction or another. What makes you think that a 2nd report on 9/11 will be any different?

          Full disclosure: I am in no effing way a “Truther”. Airplanes hit the buildings, flown by Islamist terrorists. The heat of the fires can and did did weaken the steel structures so they collapsed. There were no explosives hidden anywhere. etc. etc. etc.

          It would be interesting to see whether there was any Saudi involvement before the fact. It would be interesting to see whether the Brits had intelligence that the FBI/CIA/NSA ignored. (There are, after all, a lot of Saudis in Britain, many in high places.)

          • Sorry meant to thumb you up old coach

          • Bush had the memo on his desk warning about airplane attacks on buildings, but not including dates and flight numbers. So, what was he supposed to do? [Rolls eyes.]

            There were short sells on the market in the days preceding the 911 attacks. As to explosives, building 7 looks remarkably like a deliberate demolition. What do I know?

            The prez, congress, NSA. Nobody sends me any memos.

            • There are short sales on the NYSE every day it’s open.

        • Oh yeah, right after 9-11 when the entire nation shut down with mandatory 3-day no flying and every plane was grounded, the Saudi Royal family members flew out of Tampa,FL, with a pardon from GH Bush SR. They basically abandoned their homes and belongings, jumped on their jet and flew back to Saudi Arabia. No doubt this was an inside job. The Bush Family is up to their necks in scandal and crimes against America along with the Saudi Royals.

          St Petersburg Times:
          TAMPA – Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation’s air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left.

          The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky.

          The Saudis then took another flight out of the country. The two ex-officers returned to TIA a few hours later on the same plane.

          For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose.

          But now, at the request of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks, TIA officials have confirmed that the flight did take place and have supplied details.

          The odyssey of the small LearJet 35 is part of a larger controversy over the hasty exodus from the United States in the days immediately after 9/11 of members of the Saudi royal family and relatives of Osama bin Laden.

          The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight.

          The commission’s general counsel, Daniel Marcus, asked TIA in a letter dated May 25 for any information about “a chartered flight with six people, including a Saudi prince, that flew from Tampa, Florida on or about Sept. 13, 2001.” He asked for the information no later than June 8.

          TIA officials said they sent their reply on Monday.

          The airport used aircraft tracking equipment normally assigned to a noise abatement program to determine the identity of all aircraft entering TIA airspace on Sept. 13, and found four records for the LearJet 35.

          The plane first entered the airspace from the south, possibly from the Fort Lauderdale area, sometime after 3 p.m. and landed for the first time at 3:34 p.m. It took off at 4:37 p.m., headed north. It returned to Tampa at 8:23 p.m. and took off again at 8:48 p.m., headed south.

          Author Craig Unger, who first disclosed the possibility of a post-9/11 Saudi airlift in his book House of Bush, House of Saud, said in an interview that he believes the jet came to Tampa a second time to drop off two former law enforcement agents from Tampa who accompanied three young Saudis to Lexington for security purposes.

          The Saudis asked the Tampa Police Department to escort the flight, but the department handed off the assignment to Dan Grossi, a former member of the force, Unger said. Grossi recruited Manuel Perez, a retired FBI agent, to accompany him. Both described the flight to Unger as somewhat surreal.

          “They got the approval somewhere,” Perez is quoted as telling Unger. “It must have come from the highest levels of government.”

          While there is no manifest for those aboard the Lear flight to Kentucky, Unger says the foreign nationals left Lexington for London aboard a Boeing 727. That manifest lists eight Saudis, two Sudan nationals, one Tunisian, one Philippine citizen, one Egyptian and two British subjects.

          Of those, three listed residences on Normandy Trace Drive in Tampa, and all of them held Florida drivers’ licenses. They are Ahmad Al Hazmi, then 19, Fahad Al Zeid, then 20, and Talal M. Al Mejrad, then 18, all male Saudis.

          It is not known which, if any, is a Saudi prince.

          Perez, the former FBI agent on the flight, could not be located this week, and Grossi declined to talk about the experience.

          “I’m over it,” he said in a telephone interview. “The White House, the FAA and the FBI all said the flight didn’t happen. Those are three agencies that are way over my head, and that’s why I’m done talking about it.”

          Grossi did say that Unger’s account of his participation in the flight is accurate.

          The FAA is still not talking about the flights, referring all questions to the FBI, which isn’t answering anything, either. Nor is the 9/11 Commission.

          Unger’s book criticizes the Bush administration for allowing so many Saudis, including the relatives of bin Laden, to leave the country without being questioned thoroughly about the terrorist attacks.

          Fifteen of the 19 men who hijacked four airlines on Sept. 11 were Saudi, as is bin Laden.

          The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.

          “What information, if any, do you have about the screening by law enforcement personnel – including law enforcement personnel affiliated with the airport facility – of individuals on this flight?” the commission asked TIA.

          The TIA Police Department said a check of its records indicated no member of its force screened the Lear’s passengers.

          Despite evidence that the flight occurred, several new questions have arisen.

          Raytheon Aircraft is the only facility at TIA that services general aviation, which includes charter flights. When appropriate, Raytheon collects landing fees from those aircraft for TIA and reports to TIA on the flights.

          According to airport records, Raytheon collected landing fees from only two aircraft on Sept. 13, one of them a Lear 35. But according to the record, the registration on the Lear is 505RP, a tail number which, according to the latest federal records, is assigned to a Cessna Citation based in Kalamazoo, Mich., and Oskar Rene Poch.

          Poch confirmed Tuesday that he owns a Citation with that tail number and did before the terrorist attacks.

          “Somebody must have gotten the registration number wrong in Tampa,” he said.

          TIA spokeswoman Brenda Geoghagan said it is believed the Lear’s Sept. 13 journey began in Fort Lauderdale, possibly at a charter company called Hop-a-Jet Inc. The fact that the four trips in and out of Tampa all carried the flight designation “HPJ32” lends support to that idea.

          But an official of Hop-a-Jet who wouldn’t identify himself said the company does not own an aircraft with the registration number 505RP. Furthermore, he said, if that tail number is assigned to a Cessna Citation, the company doesn’t own any Citations, either.

          Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.

          “Whether such a (LearJet) flight would have been legal hinges on whether somebody paid for it,” said FAA spokesman William Shumann. “That’s the key.”

          – Times researcher Kitty Bennett contributed to this report.

      10. The Middle Tennessee Preppers group died after the founder and some experts left. No one kept it going like they could. No monthly meetings any more or even a website.

        The LDS cannery in Hendersonville is good. Plus, there is a meet up group for Provident Living that holds classes in Nashville too

        • i am one of the founders of The Middle Tennessee Preppers group and sadly the group was suddenly over ran by arm chair preppers.i am south of i-40 on the foothills and this is in my opinion one of the best areas to fall back to simply because of the available water everyplace you turn.we have great fishing in the small streams and really good hunting.getting along with the locals is easy if you come here with the beleif in helping your neighbors and not being a recluse.

      11. Any bug out area you choose is one that you routinely should know about. For instance, I live in eastern Idaho. Thus the areas I look at are around the Alpine WY, West Yellowstone, Salmon, or even in the bitter root areas of Idaho and Montana. I even know some decent areas in the Moscow area since I lived there while going to college. You do not want to be uneducated about the BOL you are looking at….

        • Ugly how true. Many people come in the summertime and see a lot or cabin, high in the mountains and think how great it is. And then come winter their place may only be a few miles off a well used road but almost impossable to get to. So know your BO location in all seasons. Trekker Out.

          • I’ve got family that fits that bill, and I cannot move them off it. Obsessed with Idaho and Wyoming, but lived all their adult lives in NJ, so haven’t clue #1 about how to live in those places. Can’t live without two runs a day to the supermarket. Can’t think without an iGadget. (I swear they’ll all take iImplants as soon as they become available.) Idea of a BOL is as near the ski lifts as possible.

            Oh, well.

            • Old Coach, They sound like candidates for Jackson Hole, Wy. Just like Aspen, Co. Just two requirements, Be Wealthy and Liberal.

              • Interestingly, they’re not liberals, but they do spend a week in Jackson Hole every year!

      12. Everybody is looking for a better bug out location. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. How many think this way.
        Take a look at the interstates that traverse each state. Florida has 75 and 95 north and south. Then 10 and 4 east and west. Could add US1, 301 and 17. How many vehicles move on these roads each day. Look at the distance between major cities. So even though you have beat the crowd, consider a mass migration. There are many variables that will make people move and I will tell you South Florida would be a major UPCHUCK to the north and then fan out. Or maybe kill each other off in the process.

        How about your state?

        • Slingshot -Just about any Hurricane evacuation off the FL Keys into Miami is a Major Custer Puck. They are now opening up both sides of the highway in one direction flow north and away from outer coastal areas, during many evacuations. No doubt, You better have your BugOut gear already packed and extra gas cans, so you can quick pack your vehicle and at least get out of FL without stopping for gas. The earlier the jump on the traffic the better. Also consider how many electronic gadget dolts rely on their GPS’s and they will all get funneled into one bottle neck of traffic congestion. Make sure you have a large paper Florida map with all the back country roads. Major highways will be solid gridlock then as vehicles run out of gas it will be total blockage. No doubt tempers and frustration will cause many to start shooting and looting.

          • WWTI.

            I am veteran in the hurricane field and each year I am amazed at the same stupid actions of some of the people who live in the hurricane prone area.
            We have been real lucky for no storm has rode over top of my area of the state in many years but the odds are not in our favor as the each hurricane season goes by.
            All it takes is one to turn your world upside down.
            Each storm warning I begin my routine and get ready. My wife says as long as I prepare the storm will go away.
            I listen to the Mayor and although the Hurricane Edition section of the newspaper is real good, many rebuy their preps each year at higher prices instead of storing them. Most do not have the money to purchase items in the first place. Board your home up with half inch plywood and compare to the price of 10 years ago.
            I am ready. Pre storm, during the storm and after the storm.

            • Yep Slingshot, still have my pre-drilled 1/2″ plywood for the windows and doors ready to go and Cement Tap Screws. 2004 with 4 hurricanes in a 1 month period Evacuated to higher ground twice, worried about storm surges. House was boarded up for 3 weeks strait, cause another was coming the following weekend. The wind was like 125 or more. I opened up a door to take a photo of a tree lopsided, and the wind stole the door right out of my hand. I could hardly close it. I did not do that again and hunkered down with a radio. lol A great book to read is “Surviving Doomsday” by Richard Duarte, he talks about Hurricane Andrew and the SHTF after when Miami and Homestead FL was wiped off the map and looters etc.. It is a great book for starting preppers and a good review for any preppers. I could not put the book down, great read. Also met the guy, link:

            • Im there right now, just picking up some extras, if we get wacked with even a tropical storm things will be shut down for weeks.
              Ready and able on Maui

              • stay safe it looks like your going to get at least some of the one coming your way now

          • A Garmin-type GPS is a death sentence in a SHTF situation, for exactly the reason given. FAR better to have a laptop loaded with deLorme Topo and a USB-connected GPS.

            Standard equipment in my E-150 BO van since about the year 2000. I dunno how many times I’ve evaded major tieups by jumping off the superslab and plotting an alternate route on the back roads, using MY intelligence, and not that of some half-baked computer algorithm.

            Of course, there was the time in WV when I took a back road that was really just a Jeep trail….. Tore a running-board off, but got out OK.

          • of course that single road into the Keys can work both ways ,it seemed to work in there favor according to “one second after” novel

        • very true slingshot

          im a good 400 mi. into the breach down here in the everglades ,i wouldnt even attempt to go north in a crisis ,you would more than likly die on the road somwhere in your car ,ive been here almost 60 years ,never left in a hurracane ,and im still kickin ,if i had to go (and i have no plans to) id turn my face south and walk about 20mi. and ill be in the thick of the glades ,BTW another fairly good N/S road you could throw in the mix would be HWY 27 ,but even then you’d be stopped in your tracks by time you got to I4

          • 10-4 lower40

          • WWTI, Slingshot, and Lower40, I lived in Miami 1975-1982, and I’ve seen how evacuations from the Keys to the mainland take place so I know exactly what you’re speaking of. I’m glad I’m not down there anymore. After my wife was killed, there was nothing left for me there. Lower40, your only hope ofescape from FL would be to recognize the signs early and leave early before other people get the same idea.

          • Lower 40 – Yeah those areas down by Everglade City have been threatened with 20 Ft storm surges, like for Hurricane Wilma. It ended up being like an 8ft surge. The storm surges are higher on the Gulf Coast because it is so shallow off the west Gulf coast. 40 miles out is it still only about 35 ft deep opposed to the Atlantic side 5 miles out and 120 Ft deep. And there is no room to absorb the surge impact so landmasses takes the hit. Just have your duck boat ready for flooding. Kayak, etc, Lie a line off the roof top. lol

            • im far enough north of everglades city to be clear of the surge (where the swamp ends and the higher farm land starts),but i still took it hard in wilma ,took all the shingles and felt off the north side of the house ,my wife was on the phone with the ins. company in the middle of the storm filing a claim ,IMHO i dont think 3tab shingles have a place in Fl. my dad built his house in 1948 he hot mopped 90lb mineral roll roofing on ,and its still there ,he’s about a mile from the gulf ,and took a direct hit form Donna ,and didnt touch his roof

        • In NC I can say without a doubt that in an acute crisis event. I ain’t going anywhere. The major artery roads will be clogged in a few minutes. Hell it’s bad on simple vacation travel days. I will be sitting tight to weather the first phase of the storm. I won’t be elbowing my way in Wal-Mart for a pack of crackers or trying any distance travel for at least a couple of weeks. I would rather take my chances at home rather than on an interstate fighting for my family’s lives as we run out of fuel at a standstill or get beatdown from a crazed zombie.

          • …WAIT!!!…The Walking Dead…season 2 episode 13…but you are spot on in your insight.

            Live Free or Die

        • How about Upper Michigan? Marquette is 300 miles from Milwaukee, 390 miles from Minneapolis, and 175 miles from Green Bay. It’s about 100 miles of nothing between Marquette and Houghton, Michigan. Lots of great bug out places there.

          • Not really. That area is full of retired UAW goons, who will cut your throat for a dime when the opportunity offers.

            Lived in SE Michigan 15 years, Minneapolis for one year. I looked the whole area over pretty carefully, and decided to go the other way when I retired.

            Growing season bites the bazooka. Why there are so few farmers on the YouPee. The Keweenaw gets 5 to 15 FEET of snow every year.

            Only way you could live there is to become a copper miner, if there were any market after TSHTF for copper ore.

            • I have seen Squaw Valley Ski Resort out by Lake Tahoe get over a 100 Inches of snow in just a few days. Incredible skiing.

        • if it means anything ,i remember several years ago (cold war was still going strong) our local paper did a whole section on surviving a nucular exchange ,Fl was one of the best places to be ,we dont have have alot of strategic targets ,we allow very little heavy industy ,we have a few high density areas but even they would only qualify for low megaton bomb ,but the biggest and most important ,is the fact that the fall out would not be over our state for more than a few hours ,via. the gulf stream ,(this why we do not have emmision insp. in Fl. the pollutants dont hang around ,as apposed to the mid west where the fall out would layin for days even weeks

      13. “Not if the New Madrid begins rocking. A cave or steep hillside may become a “crash” site.

        Many folks have built along steep ridges in the mountains for the views. Even a well anchored home could become a problem if the earth starts shifting.

        Enter at your own risk.”

        Exactly what I was thinking. While still a theoretical, it is not without the realm of possibility.

        Something people should take into consideration in choosing that BOL is the seismic potential threats of that area. Great UPDATED map/report from the USGS here:

        h t tp://

        • Coincidentally, I was sitting on a wooden bench outside the local General Store in 1968 when the earth shook violently from a 5.4 quake in that region.

          My location was about fifty miles east of the Blue Ridge Parkway, nearly 500 miles from the epicenter. My jaws were shaken and a 6 1/2 oz. coke bottle,sitting on the bench, bounced off to the ground.

          It could happen tomorrow.

          just sayin’.

          • If you read the details about what if the Naw Madrid falt blows it could rip right up to Lake Michigan and a massive flash flood down the entire Mississippi Valley killing Millions. So watch your elevation anywhere near the Miss River. Thus the term “Head for the hills.”

      14. Off topic…..

        Ohio’s fourth largest city has issued water warning…

        TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) — Toxins possibly from algae on Lake Erie fouled the water supply of the state’s fourth-largest city Saturday, forcing officials to issue warnings not to drink the water and the governor to declare a state of emergency as worried residents….

        “nearly half a million residents affected”

        Ummmm? should have been prepping folks.
        Got that counter top water distiller yet?

        The little woman says; “Why hell yes, we have two of them and a back-up, wood-fired apparatus…. and we have spring water to boot”.

      15. Slow night, what can one say???

        > Subject: Things to ponder!!!!!!!!!

        > Did you know:
        > That the words “race car” spelled backward are “race car”?
        > That “eat” is the only English word that, when you take the first letter
        > and move it to the last, spells its past tense – “ate”?
        > And …
        > That if you rearrange the letters in “illegal immigrants” … and add
        > just a few more letters … they spell out:
        > “Fuck off and go home, you freeloading, benefit grabbing, kid producing,
        > violent, non-English speaking turdsuckers, and take those hairy faced,
        > sandal wearing, bomb making, goat fucking, smelly raghead bastards with
        > you!”
        > i feel so much better

        > How weird is that?

        • Eppe,am still interested assuming we can actually get in touch and work up a business plan,as I have said in past,I have a lot of drive/energy for a plan and do have access to family that may be willing to invest.I will make up a dump it e-mail account and post here on Monday,contact that and we can get in touch and work from there,at least we are both on the Atlantic coast,makes for easier planning/work.

            • Eppe,sent ya’s a initial contact e-mail.I will be out and about today doing little projects/playing with my compound bow ect. but will check in on line occasionally,enjoy the day you and rest of forum!

        • Hi eppe. I love anagrams. and telegrams. and teddy grahams. My favorite is ‘Light fuse and get away!’
          And, did you know “Hope and Change” spelled backward is ‘Kenyan commie usurper’ ?

          • “Hope and Change” spelled backward is ‘Kenyan commie usurper’ ?,damn Okie,what the hell are you smoking?!

            • Please pass…

          • knock,knock,knock….


        • Not weird in the least 😉

      16. OFF TOPIC: Sorry for this, but was I the only one who did not know this??????

        This puts a whole new twist on things….I’m so pissed right now I can hardly type…This is from the link above by Anonymous:

        THE AGE OF SEXUAL CONSENT IN MEXICO IS 12 YRS OLD…OR PUBERTY. OMG…you think TPTB didn’t already know this????????? So the traitor in chief is allowing thousands of pedophiles into the country.

        “Given the fact that the age of sexual consent throughout the majority of Mexico (including Mexico City) is only 12, it is not difficult, except perhaps, for those in the mainstream media to understand the cause and effect for the as yet, ongoing human rights crisis taking place along Tobacco Road.

        Article 261 of the Mexican Federal Criminal Code states:

        Whoever, without the purpose of reaching copulation, performs a sexual act in a person under 12 or in a person that has no capacity of understanding the meaning of the act or that for any reason cannot resist, or demands that the act is performed, will be punished with a term of 2 to 5 years in prison.
        Perhaps, more disturbing is the 3rd clause of Article 266, which states:

        …the vaginal or anal introduction of objects, without violence and with lascivious goals, in a person under 12 or in a person that has no capacity of understanding the meaning of the fact, or for any reason cannot resist. If any of the aforementioned acts is performed with physical or moral violence, the sentence is raised in up to a half.
        Furthermore, in order to bring charges of rape in most Mexican states, the law basically requires proof from the girtl that she is a virgin (the law states that only those who seduce “chaste and honest” girls shall be prosecuted), and the rarely seen charge of statutory rape can often be dropped if the rapist expresses his desire to marry his victim.

        In light of the fact that the Obama administartion has completely abandonned its responsibility to defend our border with Mexico and enforce all immigration laws, combined with the so-called ‘sanctuary policies’ adopted by every major city in North Carolina, it is little wonder that being a child has become a rather dangeours proposition in that state.

        As evidence of this still-growing epidemic, children under the age of 15 accounted for 20.3 percent of all sex crime victims in the state of North Carolina, during 2012 (that demographic represented the second highest number of victims) according to a report from the NC Department of Justice.”


        • PKLL:

          What class of people, called legislators, in this world could have adopted such satanic laws.

          Proof positive what happens to a country when people dont pay attention to what is happening to their laws.

          The Mexican people should be hanging those SOB’s; and the ones in America who have helped perpetrate this onslaught of illegals should suffer the same fate, yesterday.

          • POG: Every day it just gets worse….I spend most of my time mumbling to myself….

            Amen to your comments….America is in so much trouble….


            • PKL… Watch out for the thought police if you mumble to yourself. Also if you talk in your. sleep. One girlfriend I had would talk in her sleep. I would as her questions and she would answer me in her sleep. I would ask intimate questions and she would blab away. LoL. She was very honest and loyal to me. I should have kept that one.. If you can’t trust your mate you need to get out of the relationship. Period. Cause one day you piss them off andthey will turn on you. Like the lady who turned in her husband prepper who had a house arsenal of guns. So hide them and just tell her you sold them.

              • WWTI, why did you not keep her???
                Soul mates are hard to find, I have always said “I only need ONE good female”, and I got one, bless my wife, she puts up with all my woes. I love her, and she loves me…
                She puts up with me, which is a chore….
                Cuz I ain’t perfect…

                • eppe, you know she was ready to get married and I was just trying to get my career off the ground 20 yrs ago. And was not ready toget married yet then. You know I got tired of her coming home bitching about how everybody at her work was out to get her, etc. Oh I have about a half dozen women out there I should have kept. I actually like my bachelorhood now, as I was married twice before and gave half my stuff away twice. lol The last 8 yrs I just meet these babes online out of state and just fly them in and its like weekend wives, all the sex you want, and then a few days later they are gone before they start bitching about something.. lol

            • PKLL and POG, if any illegal alien tries anything on me, he dies, period. He’s not a US citizen, he’s here in our country illegally, he doesn’t have any rights here.

        • press release: Ebola Obama and Euglena Obama, the half-sisters of Barrack, have been invited to come to America by their half-brother. They bring the joy of love, hope, and happiness with them that has been the hallmark of this administration. Please welcome them with open arms just like you open your homes, and wallets, to illegal immigrants. Isn’t it great that everyone in the world can be Americans?

        • Could be a lot worse. But the best place to be is a place where no one else thinks is the place to be.

      17. In keeping with the Saturday relocation tradition will say it again,will not move and am drawing a line in the sand,already moved a few times to escape insane local govt.s.I have family that may leave country,much older and just want last few years in peace,they know I will not bail as still full of piss and vinegar and would probably if they leave set behind some value for me to really dig in though pretty much already there!

      18. Ok…Do you plan to “buy land” for your bugout? You see I’m a native of the eastern mountains, my family has lived there for almost 300 years. As a native I can tell you a few things that y’all city folk should know. (1) The road net in most of the eastern mountains consist of one and two lane switch backs, that are impassable to anything but 4X4’s with chains for much of the winter. (2) There are NO grocery stores , malls, hospitals or wall-marts OR jobs closer than the interstate. Most people in rural east Tenn. and Ky. commute MORE than 100 miles a day–If they have a job at all. Regional unemployment is around 75 to 80% It takes my elderly mother MORE than 6 hours to get to and back from a store ,the Doc’s or the nearest movie . There is ONE doctor (he’s 75) and 4 gas stations within 60 miles of here house. So have fun with that bugout just remember, that farm you like is someone’s property and they’ll shoot you over it.

        • Amen…seems alot of folks have the idea theyll just grab a spot that suits them when TSHTF…many plan to buy it but some dont…definatly gonna be trouble if I find my farm settled by outsiders…I expect it from others protecting theirs too…folks oughta live prepared where they are instead of trying to live with each foot in a different world…2 cents REB

      19. I have some inside information on the Toledo, Ohio water crisis. I was told last year at this time that this would happen, not just in Toledo, but all over Ohio because of a highly toxic algae called euglena. Certain strains of euglena are responsible for turning water red like blood, and have been linked to cancer and other health issues. Both FEMA and the EPA have known about this problem for years—and the eventual crisis that would stem from it. The situation has been classified as a National Security Risk for at least a few years, but no definitive action has been taken to solve it; instead, the reality of Ohio’s contaminated fresh water supply has been carefully covered up. I know this because I have personally met with the government officials of a small city in Ohio that have an infected lake, from which they derive all of their drinking water. Because I have a background working with certain beneficial biologicals that are used to clean up contaminated bodies of water, I met with the officials of the town to discuss a possible biological solution to the problem. However, I learned from the Mayor, that even though the lake provides the drinking water for thousands of towns people, the city had no control over it and could not take any action to clean it up without the approval of the EPA, who literally own the water (but don’t drink it). In other words, the towns people are being slowly poisoned while the government officials hands are tied behind their backs by the bureaucrats of the EPA. I was told that there was a quiet epidemic of water contamination (euglena) in almost every major body of water in Ohio, including Lake Erie, and that eventually a major water crisis would erupt if the euglena problem was not taken care of. The only thing that the EPA would allow to be done in the case of this particular small city in Ohio, was to pour massive amounts of aluminum into the lake to bind with the euglena and pull it to the bottom into the sludge, where it is syphoned out by floating barges. This “solution” turned out to be ineffective and has only further contaminated the lake with high levels of aluminum that are compounding the problem.

        Euglena is a demonic microorganism. If you kill it violently it releases its toxins into the water before it dies. The only real solution is to introduce powerful beneficial biologicals to compete with it for the limited resources in the aquatic environment, and thereby force it to subside naturally. Unfortunately, the EPA s controlled by a special interest which is much more concerned with EUGENICS than euglena. Timothy A

        • km, you know how to clean up water?? I also wanted to go in that field– learn how. How did you get in that field? How did you learn about it– the techniques??!!

          “certain beneficial biological”– yes, I have heard of that! Please tell me how to get more information on this topic!!

          • This is not from me personally! This was sent to Steve Quayle at his “alert” section. They email this info to him, and he up-loads it to his site!

        • KM: I knew I smelled a rat….I was told that Lake Eerie had a problem in the 70’s with something like this???? I also heard that the Quagga mussel was accidentally introduced and filtered the water, thus saving the lake.

          So, if true…..I would *NOT* recommend finding a lake with a Quagga mussel problem and boating on it. You might accidentally introduce them into the great lakes. They reproduce very quickly. I’m sure a quick google search would yield results on which lake to avoid….


          • KM: Do I have your permission to repost your post to other sites? I’ll take your name off… if you say “no” I understand.


            • km: your post was a repost….didn’t see quotes so I thought it was yours….never mind…:)


          • Lake Eerie….LOL….oops….

          • Its probably the Chinese ships that enter the Great Lakes to steal the fresh water they dump polluted water from their ship balasts and refill them back up with fresh water to haul back to China. Thus the term “Slow boat to China.”

        • Your story is really #$%&#@! up, km.

          That’s why it has to be true.

        • Dear Tim: THANK YOU! for the inside dope.

          I’m here in Ohio, and found this story VERY interesting: last year it was reported that a Japanese bio-tech firm was making JET FUEL from this algae! It was one of the moribund Tokyo’s stock Excehnage’s High Flyers:

          QUESTION: Was Lake Erie used as the “test tube” for this outfit?

          …just saying…

        • The question to ask is WHY the water is contaminated. I found a scientific paper that says: “Organic pollution occurs when large quantities of organic compounds from many sources are released into the receiving running waters, lakes and also seas. Organic pollutants originate from domestic sewage (raw or treated), or urban run off, industrial effluents and farm water.”

          I bet both industrial and agricultural pollution is the main culprit. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, hog, chicken, and cattle waste has polluted 35,000 miles of rivers in 22 states and contaminated groundwater in 17 states. There are about 125 of these operations in Ohio [40 of them are hog farms]. Meanwhile, our state and federal governments are bribed by corporate money NOT to clean up the environment.

        • Can you say “Sawyer Water filter” $18.99 @ CampingSurvival processes 100,000 gals of water. No-brainer. Every on in your family of prepping group should have one for their own. BOB or BOV and BOL.

          • Can you say .50-.60 cheaper on the big dreaded E or A store,that includes free shipping.Your place wants a extra 5.50 to ship to New England,good filter,better deals available!

          • WWTI, I just tested both the Sawyer All-In-One and the Mini over the weekend in north GA and fell in love with them. Had to pay a bit more for both of them at Bass Pro Shop, but they’re worth every penny to me. They’re better than my Katadyn and cheaper.

            • Renegade, Try to buy as many Sawyers as you can, as it will be one of the best barter items out there if all goes to hell. You know when the municipal water systems go to hell like in Toledo, they could sell for $100 or only trade them for silver or gold coins. Any earth quakes, floods, hurricanes, refuges on the go. Imagine what someone would give for just one Sawyer filter for his family. 3 days without water and you are poof gone.

              • WWTI, I think I will get some extras as soon as funding permits. On bartering, I’ll have to be extremely selective about WHO to barter with. I’m sure someone would be happy to trade me something really useful for my old Katadyn WITH some spare filters. Not as much total service life as the Sawyer but will still save someone’s life.

      20. Oh, no! the water is turning red too??!! Bible: “Famines (due to extreme droughts out West), pestilence (Ebola, etc.), wars, wars and rumors of war and water turned to blood.” ;(

        Mom, where are you??!!

      21. When there is certain types of pollution, the water will be filled with red algae, which chokes off life from other forms of life in the water… it basically kills the water, destroys it.

        There are places around the world where this is occurring (usually ocean areas) but China recently showed pictures of red water and wondered what had happened. Officials told them not to drink it…

        • anon

          we get it here now and again in SWFL ,its called red tide ,kills fish and tourism ,they put out these warning not to go to the beach ,the blossum from it puts out some preety bad stuff for thoe who have allergy problems

          • Lower40 Yeah that red tide kills manatees and fish. depleats the O2 in the water. I also lived down in SWFL.

          • We get red tide blooms off the coast of Maine just about every summer.

      22. Getting away from highly populated areas is indeed one of the main objectives to survival. Let’s face it, more people means more competetion for limited resources. For people that live within the Great Smokies, this is a nice location and the scenic value is tops.

        To earthquakes now. Just had a 6.6 on the fridges of the northern Australia plate, in Micronesia. I did not list this exact location with the forecast on comment #3193472, July 30 at 8:51 AM, only that the Australian plate was due for a hit. So those predicted locations still stand to be dangerous for the next 2 weeks or so.

        Just had a precursor earthquake on the Mid Indian Ridge. This spot has about an 80% major earthquake hit after this spot has an earthquake. On March 10, 2011 this exact same location within a miles or so had an earthquake and the next day Japan and Fukushima had a 9.0 mega earthquake. Not to say that this is going to happen again, but this point on the Indian Ridge leads to large earthquakes within 15 days afterwards 4 out of 5 times. This points a lot to the Pacific Northwest and Alaska, everywhere between Iran and Samoa again on the Australian plate, Central America, South America to 35 degrees south, and Mynamar. This shows about the same locations that the previous warning given.

        • BI.

          Earthquake in China. On the news.

      23. Asparagus each plant will yield half a dozen spears during harvest season.

        Beans, bush one 10-foot row yields 8 pounds; yellow varieties tend to yield

        Beans, broad one 10-foot row yields 10 pounds

        Beets One 10-foot row yields 10 pounds; if you prefer small beets, double seeds.

        Broccoli One to three pounds per plant

        Cabbage One to three pounds per plant

        Corn approximately 30-36 ears per 10-foot row

        Cucumbers 10-15 cucumbers per plant

        Eggplant Four to five pounds per plant

        Onions One pound of sets produces 30-40 pounds of onions.

        Peas, shell one 10-foot row yields 10 pounds.

        Peppers Six to 22 bell peppers per plant

        Potatoes Five pounds of seed potatoes yield 125 pounds of potatoes.

        Summer squash & zucchini if kept picked, one plant will yield 5 pounds of

        Tomatoes Yields vary tremendously, but on average, 6-8 pounds per plant

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!

      24. How to Make Your Own Wicks for Candles

        Dissolve 2 tablespoons of table salt and 4 tablespoons of borax in 1
        1/2 cups of warm water.
        Soak a 1-foot length of regular cotton kite string or twine in the
        solution for 15 minutes.
        Hang each string with a clothespin for 5 days to be sure it is
        completely dry.
        Use a paperclip to dip each string completely in melted wax 3 to 4
        times, coating it completely.
        Hang it up to dry as before…
        Store wicks rolled up in a newspaper.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!

      25. First time posting but wanted to say that the algae in Lake Erie is a bright green. I live outside a small town out in rural MI and the stores here were sold out of water shortly after opening and we’re not receiving water from Toledo or Lake Erie. The mob was nuts!!

        • Hope you have a decent well/rain barrel system ect.You don’t might be albeit a little late time to do one.Even in a rental can get one of those 150 gallon bags that can be filled in a bathtub,only one tub would probably not be filled in time before this warning but in future with storms ect.,best of luck to you and the other folks there Momo!

          • We have a good well and rain catchment on a few out buildings and a way to haul water if needed. Thanks for your concern. Way far away from the lake.

            • Nice,sounds like you have one of the most basic necessitys covered in a multitude of ways.I have well and just one 55 gallon rain barrel,do have add in 10 minutes hand pump as a shallow well attach straight to prime side of jet pump,those with deep wells there are hand pumps that will pull in some models 400′ feet,water a quick walk if safe also and have a few personal filters if needed,hope your area gets this figured out soon.

        • Momof5, welcome aboard, and I hope you have some way of purifying water. Sawyer water filters are great, but for home use I would get something like a Big Berkey. I just tested 2 Sawyer filters on a 3-day trip and fell in love with them. My next purchase will be a Big Berkey for home use.

      26. For those of you who are like me and cannot afford to bug out. Use your preps and ammo wisely and get ready for one hell of a fight. I know where I’m going when I die so I guess I should worry to bad about running. If an outbreak of disease breaks out then all I can do than The Lord for my final destination.

        • *should’NT worry

      27. I live in the area mentioned and can provide info if requested. Land within 30-40 miles of big cities is expensive. Priced for subdivisions, not for farming.

      28. I got 15 acres up for sale a quarter mile down the road from the NSA facility in Oakridge (Eastern Tenn). Any takers? And I got news for you, in some places you best have a back up generator cause if a turkey farts or coughs, the power is going down for hours and sometime days.

      29. Got 5.41 acres for sale on Hwy 62 in Deer Lodge, TN. Deep shared spring fed pond (spring is on this property),gas and water available. This property would be more suitable for those who want to get away from populated areas but not out in the sticks. $24,900. E-mail- [email protected]

        • That’s a bargain in my book.

          • Beautiful views of the mountains from the upper part of property, mineral rights convey too.

      30. I’m sure the good folks in Tennessee will welcome all the so called touristas (aka prepperistas) as much as we do here on vacationland Cape Cod when the ignorant hordes invade our neck of the woods every summer..and they only stay for a week or 2..never mind attempting to relocate permanently..
        Hell we even have Tourist Hunting Permits plastered on our rear bumpers..

        I think not…we natives do not take too kindly to foreign invaders of any type with their arrogance and condescending attitudes..especially the ones with “Im ready for Hillary” on their vehicles..


        • Posse,I am ready for Hillary!This is one of the many reasons I prep!

        • You out on the cape, Possee? I envy you in a way. All you gotta do is blow the Bourne bridge and you’re an island.

          • Uh coach,need to take out the Sagamore Bridge and the railroad bridge also!

            • Urk! forgot that one. And I usta live there, too. Even with all the bridges gone, I’d still want a boat capable of blue water sailing, in case it came time to leave. Unfortunately boats that big are mighty spendy.

          • on the Cape..where we now must possess a license to actually cast a line into the ocean from the damned beach!Seriously..!
            Meanwhile the feds are initiating huge land and sea grabs off of the coastal areas of Chatham and Monomoy..all to ‘protect’ the wildlife and oceans…of course all the locals and few fishermen that are left are up in arms over it…

            Then we have these mall cop Environmental Police roaming the areas as if they’re part of SWAT…

            Just imagine all the idiots from every damned agency that’ll be on Martha’s Vineyard once barry and hilarah land there later this month..



            • It was getting bad when I finally left NE in 1993 for the last time, and I can see it’s gotten exponentially worse. I have family still in Maine and NH, but I won’t even drive through Mass to get there. ‘Course with the new gun laws in NY, I don’t dare drive through there, either. And with TSA the way it is I won’t fly…… Now I know what refugees from the Iron Curtain countries felt.

      31. @KM , we have that problem here in Texas,, a law was passed that after you go boating, you must wash your boat down,to stop the spread of these mussels which are being attached to the boats,…but these are zebra mussels

        • Also called Quagga mussels…they clean up water amazingly well…..


          • They clean up the water, all right, but they cut the food available to fish way down. And they foul power-plant intakes something awful.

            St. Lawrence Seaway – a case study in unintended consequences.

      32. Oh stop bitching Posse!Without the tourists the cape and islands would have to turn back into a more agrarian/fishing community,think of the horro…..,never mind.You have it easy Posse,me poor mum on the island has to deal not only with the obama clan visiting but now seems billary will be there at the same time!I would suggest if still a way there go to duck pond out in Wellfleet,we used to go there day before and after concerts at the cape cod coliseum,damn,miss that old place!

        • Send your mom my condolences Warchild..

          Indeed she’ll be suffering the horrors of barry and hillarah at the same time…

          Guess my touristas ain’t so bad afterall..


          • You know Posse,tis a shame you don’t have family in say,hmmmmm…….N.H.!Warning,never tell me anything you don’t want remembered,have the memory of a elephant!

            • HEY @possee … just head to n.h. ski town north conway n.h. , wildcat ski resort, it has the housing skiing season time shares/ condo’s , ski clubs with sleeping bunks and resources to support an influx of evacuees from southern new england. And most of the locals are retiree’s from southern new england and they control the towns not the locals.


              • North Conway?!Fine to work there ect. but at least live in Bartlett/Jackson if not even a bit more out if in that area,lot of good woodland that are will say is very nice.

            • Obviously I do…just need to sell my mcmansion..( yeah right)lost 40 % value over the last 5 years..and then head north to “live free or die” country with our oldest son


              • Posse,have seen a lot of homes for sale but also sold on cape and islands,I thought you also had a restaurant there,or do you just manage one.You willing to live way in Northlands have seen homes around upper Me. going for 40 for a decent sized say cape with 5-6 acres.

          • Possee, you would always be welcome down here in TN. Our winters are nothing like the ones you live through, better people, better culture, etc.

            • I will put up the people/culture of the Northlands against the south any time!Perhaps a next installment of civil war without the blood!Actually,as have said before,once you get out in the sticks/marsh/mountains whatever seems folks in general happier and nicer.

              • Warchild, I’ll go real easy on you so we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ve had problems in the northern states in years past and just wasn’t favorably impressed. I still enjoy your posts and we do agree on everything else. I don’t see you as a yankee in the true sense of that term. Take care.

                • Renegade,was a joke,note part where I said folks in sticks really all the same whatever location,and I am a proud/thrifty yankee by birthright and upbringing,well….,OK,usually thrifty unless it is real nice!

      33. 94-year-old Prophecy is Fulfilled
        “There is a reason why in NY harbor there is a Statue of Liberty , not a Statue of Equality”
        Charles Krauthammer

        A 94-year-old Prophecy is Fulfilled

        H.L. Mencken (born 1880 – died 1956) was a journalist, satirist, critic and Democrat. He wrote the editorial below while working for the Baltimore Evening Sun, which appeared in the July 26, 1920 edition.

        “As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron.”
        —H.L. Mencken, the Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
        So it was written, and so it has come to pass.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!

      34. My wife seen on facebook today where a person who lives out in the county was upset because apparently someone caught their free roaming dog & hauled it to town. the city has a dog law ,dog catcher & impound. the county does not. She was really upset and was asking what kind of person would do such a thing. My opinion is that a responsible pet owner keeps their pets on their own property. What kind of person lets their dog roam and trespass with unfettered free will? Why when someone buys or rents a place out in the rural area they think their pets should be allowed free range? Ok this is off topic. however its related to the mentality some folks seem to have when they move from the city to a rural setting. What are your thoughts.

        • just ventilate it.

          feed it to the crows.

        • My fav is when someone hits a dog in the road and people get fighting mad at the driver because they hit a dog. Heaven forbid they don’t stop. Then they get downright viscous. Keep your dogs out of the road, and it they get hit, it is just sad, nothing more (unless of course someone is trying to hit an animal). I have 4 dogs. If one were to get it, it simply means I didn’t do my job as an owner.

          • My sister-in-law has 2 working dogs that roam on her ranch. There has not been a problem with predators since she got the dogs. On rare occasion they get out of the fence. The neighbors always give a call and let her know where the dogs are. Difference in situations and different outcomes.

        • Its sad folks feel that they have a right to let their animals(or their kids/themselves) run all over…see it all the time…got some camps aways from here built by folks from a distant metro…come here on weekends and let the dogs run….an dont get me started on those idiots on 4 wheelers ripping all over the countryside like they own it….same retards….grrrrr! REB

      35. Oh by the way does someone have a list of buzz words that will keep your comment’s from being posted here?

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!

        • jew

      36. As someone who lives in this area. I felt I should mention a few things. TN weather is moderate, less so in the mountains. During the winter a foot and a half of snow is not uncommon. Last winters low was -13 degrees. Most of the better properties are on private roads, that are not plowed. All these things can be viewed as a positive things, as long as you have prepared properly. In the area I live in, no more than 5 of us Winter on the mountain. Other than that game is abundant, and have never had a well up here go dry.

      37. OG,out in the wooded hills New England we probably know who’s dog it is and would get in touch with owner or keep pooch safe till we found owner.A dog can bolt for many reasons on the “chase”(i.e. rabbit/chipmunk).That is the great thing about living in real country,folks help each other out/even strangers in time of need,why I love the real country.As I don’t know the specific situation you mention can’t make a thought out comment as do not know details.I will say the neighbors dogs run among properties pretty freely,play dates for lack of a better word,I actually enjoy it but that is just me.

        • Free roaming pets like cats & dogs are detrimental to wildlife. they destroy the eggs of ground nesting birds. they find and eat the nest & baby rabbits. they commonly catch & kill baby deer. Those play dates as you call them turn into hunting packs. Ive had full grown cows killed by packs of so called pets. Many attacks on livestock and humans occur every year. small children are killed or maimed every day. Most dogs will kill poultry every chance they get. also they dig up flower beds, knock the seeds & grain from field crops. Get in household trash. The spread worms & parasites etc. Most citys have leash laws to prevent irresponsible folks from having troublesome pets. In Arkansas the state law states that the landowner has the legal right to destroy any dog on they property that is about to harass all classes of livestock. The dog don’t have to be caught in the act. All that’s required is the land owner to believe that’s the dog is about to harass. My dogs are securely kept in a chain link fenced yard & pen. Any dog that comes on my land is in danger of losing its life. The person on face book stated their dog has found a attraction to female,s. They also stated they didn’t want to fasten up their dog. So their on purpose letting a unneutered male dog roam free without supervision when they are at work and their children are at school. they are irresponsible pig headed selfish folks. I cannot find one thing that justifies any person knowingly allowing their pet to roam free & trespass on others land.

          • I would say landowners like me who know the local dogs and people can justify it,we don’t consider it trespassing,as I said,will not comment on specific story as only hearing one side from facebook(which I will never use).Things are different in your area of the woods,tis fine.

            • When SHTF watch out for Feral Dog Packs. During Hurricane Katrina there were thousands of pet dogs that were released into the wild, and they formed roaming feral dog packs, attacking and killing anything that moves in the city of New Orleans, Parrish areas, etc. Another reason to have your gun permit and an expandable baton to beat them off. When I ride my bike I have a expandable baton on my bike. I have been chased twice by pitbulls, So far I was able to ride faster than they could run for those few blocks. And a back up to that, is my 9mm carry. YTube has some great vids on Feral Dog Packs. Another threat when SHTF. Pets turn feral.

          • OG: How did you know it was a pack of dogs that killed a healthy full grown cow?
            I have yet to see a dog that can do noticeable damage to an 80 planted of wheat. Hell I do more by riding a horse from one pasture to another on the outside 2 feet of the field.

            • I had one cow killed a 800 pound angus and her baby calf. another cow had her ears tore off her tail tore off and her nose badly bitten. she survived and never did very well afterward .we put her up in the feedlot and eventually made hamburger out of her. A neighbor had 5 cows killed by the same pack. We know this for a fact because we seen the dogs. they where from a subdivision out in a rural area. My neighbor shot some. He had video of the dogs attacking the cattle. We had enough proof that the court awarded us restuitioun. Some of the dogs where mixed with pit bull, a couple where labs and even two beagles where involved. We grow clover and harvest the seed. We harvest with a sickle bar mower equipped with a seed pan. The crop is ready when 90% of the seed heads will shatter when jarred. Dogs can easily cause thousands of dollars in seed loss. Its not my responsibility to prevent other folks amimals from doing damage or even trespassing on my land. My property is my domain and others should be aware of and respect my right to not want their dogs trespassing on it. I keep my dogs in a secure pen. Its not unreasonable to expect others to do likewise. I have a Jenny Burro that I bought after having my cattle attacked by dogs. She tries to catch & kill any dog & coyote she sees.

              • Oh and get this Karma got even with those folks in that subdivision who let their cow killing dogs trespass. I got fed up & sold that farm to the neighbor and moved away. that neighbor then sold out and left also. now the new owners have covered those farms with over a dozen chicken grower houses. now those folks have to smell those stinking chickens 24 X 7. ha ha! chicken grower houses on the north & south they cant escape the stench.

              • I guess I am fortunate in that most all the neighbors are all true country people and ranchers. No subdivisions, too far for the commuters.
                Some pastures are landlocked so usually if someone new is leasing it they will swing in and let us know that they are leasing the pasture and not to be concerned if we see their truck or horse. I guess I haven’t had experiences like you have. Everyone will stay out of the center of hay fields around haying season and when it is wet, usually the outside 10 feet or so is acceptable places to travel.
                I do know ranchers that have had other predator problems and usually the best course of action is to take care of the problem without saying a word, drive down the gravel road about 15 miles and dispose the problem. Well unless it is big enough to need two guys then an accomplice is called in.
                As far as clover seed, I find that really interesting. Is mowing with an old sickle mower the standard or do you harvest that way because of the simplicity of equipment by comparison to new equipment and the cost? As a kid I used to mow hay with the old sickle mowers but it’s been a long time since I have even seen one of those darn things.

                • M,friends help friends move,real friends help friends move bodies!

                • a sickle bar mower is much cheaper than a disc mower. ours has a galvanized pan that attaches to it and has a screen on top. a shaker vibrates the screen and the seed falls through. we clean the seed with a antique seed cleaner and dry It in a specialized bin with fans. its sold to a company in Missouri. ive grossed $30,000 on 40 acres of white ladino clover seed. its very labor intensive. now that the children are grown I don’t have free teen age labor. I only grow five acres of clover for seed. I also sometimes harvest fescue seed. its done with a small combine. wheat around here gets too many weeds & weed seeds mostly garlic it cost more to clean it than what its worth.

                  • If I am thinking of it correctly the pan would vibrate just from the counterweight on the sickle mower? And the bin would be similar to any grain bin maybe a bit smaller but with NG heater to take moisture down to acceptable levels or just a fan? I know nothing about clover but have done corn, beans, oats, wheat ect.
                    I know guys who know guys that clean seed. Mostly oldtimers. It is certainly labor intensive and a lost art.

          • Free Range Cats even in the city are the worst killing machines of wildlife, they kill everything for the sport of it and breed, crying when in heat. I used to trap them when then the County Animal control would come pick them up. But since their budgets were cut and no longer do that, Just set up a few coniber 330 traps in a box trap set up. Poof one by one less Killers on the lose.

            • In the hills where I am the big problem is coyotes, not cats. Only since the ‘yotes moved in here about 20 years ago are there no ground-nesting birds left. Prior to that the feral cat population wasn’t able to do that. Never saw a cat kill anything it didn’t eat, either. I’ve got “barn cats”, so I’m not unfamiliar with them. Coyotes also kill and eat any cats, dogs, or even goats that they can catch. I see one goat herdsman on my route to the shooting range who has a gigantic white guard dog in his goat enclosure. Come calving time the farmer that uses my pasture moves his pregnant cows indoors. Others move them close to home, and stand watch overnight with night vision and a varmint rifle.

        • Warchild: Funny thing. A few years back I heard my 3 cow dogs barking like crazy. Came out of the barn to find that they had a lamb cornered by the deck of the house. Hell I didn’t even know anyone had sheep around where I was. Well called the dogs off, grabbed the little guy and threw him in a horse stall. A few calls later found out it was a little girl’s 4H project that had disappeared.
          Usually you know who owns the animals that you see. I have stored horses in my coral and barn until guys could fix fence. Me and the dogs have chased yearlings off the road and back in the pastures on our way home from the bar. I don’t get too grumpy about it because it has been the case that my animals were on the roads or in someone else’ pasture.

          • Each area is different and has different issues,never had to my knowledge packs of feral dogs anywhere I have lived.I have had rabid animals including a dog I shot,felt bad each time but did them and in dog owners case a favor,and yes,their dog was up to date on rabies shot for whatever good that did,can’t wait for my ebola vaccine shot!

            • The fact is your right & freedom to allow your pets or any livestock to roam freely ends where anothey persons rights begins. Even if that dog is doing absoultly no harm at all. the other land owners wishes to not want it on his private property out weighs you. your dogs go in others property and shits. how would you like it if my flock of pigeons came to your place and shit all over your home cars & yard.

              • Old Guy,no problem,we ain’t neighbors and would say probably given our differences best for us both,you have pigeons really wouldn’t make a difference,plenty of birds shit occasionally on cars ect.,usually just after washing it.

              • Ever heard of “fence out states”? Just saying things are very different regionally.
                Other than that I am not trying to argue with you. If there were packs of dogs out where I live they wouldn’t last long. And nobody would video them, or go to court over the matter.

                • Yes Ive heard of fence out states. In fact a portion of Arkansas in hot springs county is open range for grazing livestock. they have a fence along both sides of the rail road tracks. and cattle guard,s for the trains at the road crossings. there is a fence law in all of the northern parts of Arkansas. There are not any laws requiring any landowner to fence out dogs in the entire state. In certain hunting zones during deer seson its against the law to chase deer with dogs. If your dog is out roaming free during deer season the wildlife officers will catch it and take it to the pound. If they cant catch it they shoot it. Reciently a Rottweller was roaming free at the swim beach at Lake Charles State Park. It was growling & snapping and stealing folks food. When the park ranger tried to catch it . the dog Bit his right hand it wasn’t going to let go. That ranger grabbed the dogs tougne with his left hand and tried to pull that dogs togune by the roots. That did the trick reduced the dog to a wimpering coward. it immediately let loose. But not the Ranger he never let go of the togune until the got it inside a portable cage. the guy had deep puncture wounds and needed several stiches. It could have been bad if that dog had attacked a child or someone not as knowlegable as that Park Ranger. I asked him why didn’t you just draw your handgun and shoot it. He stated it wasn’t politically correct to shoot a dog on a swim beach with over 200 people watching & he wanted to keep his job.

                  • Like I said. I am fortunate. If I were to have a problem I honestly believe that it would be solved over a cup of coffee or a beer without much problem at all.
                    Never had a problem with dogs. During calving season people will line up on a bluff in prone,call and take down coyotes if they are a problem. There is never a problem finding people that want to shoot varmints.
                    Like I said, I am fortunate.

                • The problem with killing the dogs or going to court and receiving restitioun. is the dog owners never learn anything. Then there mad at you and vandalize your property shoot your livestock etc. so you can retaliate by burning their house or killing them. Or sell out and move far away. If it was only just me I wouldn’t have sold out & left. If not for my family possibly being harmed. it would have been a fued that would have made the Hatfields & McCoys look tame. However Im much happier where im at. any dog my burro or I kill. Catch a dog or coyote in a conibar body grip trap and no body can hear them barking. chokes the life out of most. ive caught a few bulldogs that where still alive. I take to hwy 65 in the middle of the nite. the semi truck traffic heading south to little rock flattens them pretty good. the dogs owners think poor ole fido got hit and killed by traffic.

                  • Old Guy.

                    You are right! The dog owner does not learn nothing. I mean to tell you that many people have this type of attitude that their animals can go anywhere and do as they please without consequences. This goes for humans too. Well I am fed up with it and would welcome a Civil War. Like this dude who don’t even live here rides around with loud exhaust pipes at various hours of the night. Oh he thinks it is cool to ride his car around and not get caught. Then there are a couple of crotch rocket bikers that you can hear for miles off, changing gears at high speed at night, in a residential neighborhood.

                    People do not give a shit about other people. I try to keep calm but when the worm turns. Look out!

      38. West Africans Are Streaming Across the U.S. Southern Border Carrying the Ebola Virus

        Full read at Dave Hodges – Common Sense Show site!

        • I’ve got a question about the algeal bloom in Ohio. The drinking water isn’t safe to drink. I have one of those Sawyer’s water filters, and I was wondering if my filter, or the life straw or whatever, would work to make that kind of water safe to drink.

          If I had a gallon of that water, could I filter it through my sawyer’s and drink it?

          • I’ve got a question about the algeal bloom in Ohio. The drinking water isn’t safe to drink. I have one of those Sawyer’s water filters, and I was wondering if my filter, or the life straw or whatever, would work to make that kind of water safe to drink.

            If I had a gallon of that water, could I filter it through my sawyer’s and drink it?

            • 6,just got a few meself,that said,really not sure.I did half mile down river from sewage treatment plant for town that in theory legally can put treated water into river as a tough test,no ill affects.The river itself I tested at a crapshoot nasty buggy wise for straight drinking,so I guess they work,on that bloom really unsure.

            • 6 Pac
              I think that the life straw will work.
              Look up
              Cover reads
              removes up to 99.9999 percent of waterborne bacteria
              ” ” ” 99.9% of waterborne protozoan cyst.
              reduces turbidity by filtering particles of approximately 0.2 microns.

              • Sgt. the problem with the $20 life straw is that it can only filter about 264 Gallons of water. The $18.99 Sawyer has multiple uses and attachments, and can filter 100,000 Gals. Big difference. I even bought a $300+ Katadyn Ceramic Pocket filter a few yrs ago, and that filters 13,000 gallons. If I drank 1 gallon a day the Katadyn filter would last me 35-1/2 years. Do the math, 13,000 divided by 365 Days = 35.5 yrs. I bought all of them and there is nothing wrong with layers of watering filters for each BOB, or BOV Preps.

                Also as a tip, Out west, the Hotshot firefighters fighting forest fires were filtering water out of creeks with a Katadyn ceramic filter and got it plugged up due to the melted tree pitch from the burned trees that entered the stream. So wrap a coffee filter around the intake bulb hose to avoid sucking that up into the filter or any other unwanted sentiment. Again: 1 is none and 2 is 1. So have a backup filter in your BOB.

            • The Sawyer point-zero-two is the BEST gravity drip water filter there is, bar NONE. It is the only one (to my limited knowledge) that can filter contaminants down to .02 microns, the size required to filter out almost all know virus. Crytpo, protozoa and other nasty’s will be filtered out by it. Virus organisms are much smaller than those bugs, so that’s why it is at the top of its class in filters.

              It is good for over 1 million liters and comes with a back flushing attachment as well. People who haven’t bought this already are doing themselves a great disservice. Berkey and all the rest CANNOT filter to that level period. The downside is very turbid (dirty) water will require more frequent backflushing as would all of them.

              What’s in YOUR water? 😉

              • Socrates, I just became the newest fan of the Sawyer after testing the All-In-One and the Mini in a creek in north GA. The water was OK, but those Sawyers gave me better tasring water than my Katadyn and for a lower price. Nothing but Sawyers for braveheart from now on.

            • Sixpack – I would still boil it, let it cool down then filter it as an extra precaution.

            • Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the algae was releasing a toxin? Bacterial and viral filtration won’t take that into account.

              • That’s how my mind was processing the info too, nopitty. I already figured that a simple coffee filter would remove the algae itself. THEN I’d maybe boil it and/or add purification tablets to it and run it through the sawyer.

                After all of that, one would think you could nearly drink from a piss bucket if you had to…yucky thought I know, but doable as a very last resort for survival.

                • 2 red thumbs? Really?

            • Almost any filter will take out the algae. What no mechanical filter can get is the microcystin toxin it releases as it dies. The molecule is too small. Activated charcoal will, but you have to keep the throughput rate low, and replace the charcoal often. Don’t know how fast the toxin breaks down, so can’t say whether a slow sand filter would do any good.

        • West Africans Are Streaming Across the U.S. Southern Border Carrying the Ebola Virus

          Full read at Dave Hodges – Common Sense Show site!——- Sick the free roaming dogs on them!

      39. Being from the northeast part of the state, this is a great area of the country. The part about not being able to have a basement unless to want to spend mucho dinero is BS. Most houses around here have basements. Unless you on the steep side of a mountain or in a valley near a river or creek, you may have to dig several feet before you hit rock. The land here is either clay or fertile depending on how the mountains uplifted. On my farm, one side of the valley is all sandstone and the other side all limestone with sink holes down the middle. Apperently this is where the fault line for the area runs. This is very common in the area. As far as big brother, we have very good gun laws and we have a castle doctrine which extends to having a gun in your car without a permit from what I understand. The state constitution also protects hunting and fishing. I have never had any problems with law enforcement here and most are freindly since they are local boys. They tend to behave since they know that you know where they live. As far as the high population density is concerned, it is not a problem. I live in Hawkins County with a land area of 500sqmi and population around 55000. Most of the population is on the eastern side around Kingsport then populution density falls considerably. Once you remove Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville,Chattanooga, Clarksville, and areas around other places such as Kingsport or Johnson City from the scene, the population density plummets.
        I believe we are very welcoming to outsiders as long as you understand we don’t really give a crapt about how you did things wherever you came from. This is not the north and we are proud of our Southern Heritage. You stay out of my business and respect me, then we will get along fine.

        • ET,believe the stay out of business attitude is true anytime you get away from the bigger population areas.That said,have found in the largely less population areas folks are a lot more friendly,among themselves and with strangers.I recently traveled 300 miles to bury a friend lost contact with,the locals there while admittedly on their better behavior due to situation also basically took a stranger into their home and treated me as family(not dysfunctional family!),which to a degree we were as we had the same friend and loss.

        • Minding ones own business is essential to keeping folks civil…wonder why some folks just dont get it?

      40. Well,though nothing new here is some good news!: ht tp:// ,eh,just keep enjoying the day and prepping for tomorrow.

        • Can’t cry for anyone who picks a fight, then gets their own ass kicked.

          • jew’s are cowards

            defenseless imprisoned trapped women and children that’s all jew’s ever fight.

      41. my hunker down designated area is the subrubs of asheville. its got areas of fresh waters, natural forest and all sorts of geographic barriers that make the masses and whatever they’re bringing with them a disincentive to come to asheville and if they come to asheville; they’re going to the city first and anyone living outside the city will know ahead of time what to prepare for.

        • I live about 90 miles from Asheville. You have to many freaks that live there. I know that is WNC area which should be a great location, but UNC Asheville attracts weirdo’s. Depending on what side you lived, I would head closer Burnsville type area or maybe Saluda on the other side. Just a thought.

          • hmm.. sure the pot isn’t calling the kettle black?

      42. flash mobs are getting kinda scary

        this is now a nation wide problem in Zog Amerika, they are getting bigger more organized and fearless.

        FEDERAL WAY, Wash. —

        Federal Way police are looking for a group of about 40 teenagers who stormed a Shell Station in Federal Way Sunday around 12:30 a.m.

        “It’s pretty bad. I don’t know, when 30, 40 people come into the store I don’t think even cops can do anything right away,” said Ranji Rai, who owns the store. He said his clerk was alone at the time and couldn’t do anything to stop the crowd.

        The clerk, Sukhvinder Singh, at first tried to stop the teens at the door but they pushed through. Then Singh tried to grab one of the teenagers’ jackets, but another teen threw a soda at him and just missed.

        • flashmob guaranteed cure

          12 gauge 3″ 3 Ball and Chain Magnum

          The 3 Ball and Chain is the ultimate fight stopper. 3 .58 caliber musket balls are connected by a total of 12″ of braided steel cable which means the balls will never be more than 12″ apart NO MATTER WHAT THE RANGE. This round hurls a total payload of 1 7/8 ounces at your target. In addition to keeping the balls close together the steel cable creates its own wound channel upon impact giving you the ability to give your target an entry wound up to 12″ across!!!

          • DAMN! I thought some of the things I’ve dreamed up in my mind were diabolical…

          • Zen. Check this out – available in 12g and .45 Cal; and 9mm coming soon Same concept. go to: and watch the vids. I bought some of the 12g. Devastating!

            • Eh,at $6 a round can buy and mix n match a lot of deer slug and 00,will work fine.

      43. Obama-Backed Company Hired ‘Hundreds’ Of Illegals With 2.6 billion Stimulus Money

        “It started right away,” she said. “They started bringing people from Uruguay and Spain who didn’t have a visa in the U.S.”

        According to the Free Beacon, former employees of Spanish solar firm Abengoa described a culture of illegality and irresponsibility through the highest ranks of the politically connected company. The Free Beacon also reported that the company received $2.6 billion from Obama’s stimulus package, which was intended to create American jobs, but despite this employees say the company brazenly disregards any U.S. laws that could slow production or hurt their bottom line.

        And they hired mostly 100’s of illegal undocumented immigrants to work at American companies on American soil.



      44. Stay the hell out of there. It’s MINE! (HA-HA)
        This is a great area, but you had better be survival wise to live there and to get there. This is great place.
        If all goes well I’ll be there.


      46. On a side note, I have finally received one of those $1 presidential gold plated coin. This is my first one. They claim they were first issued in 2007 and will end in 2016. I find that interesting since history shows our housing and banking collapse to have started in 2007 and then why the end in 2016?

        Missing on these coins are:

        In God Wee Trust
        E Pluribus Unum

        I know I’m late to this, but what are your thoughts?

        • Ugly
          Get rid of them they won’t be worth what you paid for them.
          Anything that doesn’t have IN GOD WE TRUST is not worth having!

          • Yeah as the Dollar gets destroyed,….No worry though, as it is backed by The Bank of “God we Trust.” Bwhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It’s as Phony as a $3 Bill. Just like that promise of “Everlasting Life” if you believe, really believe a whole lot, and tithe a lot of phony money to the church too you will be saved. LOL Saved from what?

          • Sarge,willing to take any gold/silver coins you have without the god motto along with anything else you have that you feel needs a motto,just doing my part to keep ya’s happy!

            • War
              I don’t have any with out IN GOD WE TRUST! Nice try though.

        • Yeah America is now considered “Land of the Fee and Home of the Slave.”

      47. Eh,my thoughts are you have a dollar wrapped in gold,spend em and get real gold/ammo/food/hell,treat some friends to a beer/meal what have you,enjoy!

      48. off Topic…

        ‘Glitch’ Halts All ATM & Online Operations For World’s 2nd Largest Bank

        All ATM and online banking services at China Construction Bank, China’s (and the world’s) 2nd largest bank have been suspended (without warning) until further notice due to a “system issue”.


      49. Woohooo!

        Dale Jr won again and swept Pocono

      50. word from the once free American main street

        posted today at the height of the summer home building season.

        a career home builder contractor

        I have been in Construction business for 30 years, everything that I built up in the first 25 has all been lost in the last 5 and I’m not alone. All of the builders , plumbers, carpenters, brick Mason’s etc etc with decades in business are done , game over. Your going to witness record breaking bankruptcy in the next 12 months.


        • Eh,a lot of under the table/lack of permit(theft)work going on,safety and quality still there,for how much longer?I do see a large and growing barter/trade/cash economy,not bad as readies folks for any monetary crash to a degree.

      51. Dutch Oven:::

        Poor Man’s Steak

        2 lb pkg Ground beef 1 1/3 c Milk
        2 tsp Salt Margarine
        1/4 tsp Pepper 2 cans Mushroom Soup
        2 c Cracker Crumbs 1 c Water

        Mix together meat, salt, pepper, crumbs, and milk. Pack into loaf
        pans. Let stand in refrigerator overnight or as least 6 hours.
        Cut into slices and brown in margarine. Mix soup with 1 c of
        water and pour over meat placed in dutch oven. Bake at 350 for 1-
        1/2 hours.

        Pizza Hot Dish

        2 pkg Crescent rolls 8 oz Shredded Chedder Cheese
        1 jar Pizza Sauce 8 oz Shredded Mozzarella Cheese
        1-1/2 lb Ground Beef

        Brown ground beef, drain. Line dutch oven with 1 pkg of crescent
        rolls. Spread pizza sauce on dough. Add brouned beef, the cheeses
        and use second pkg of rolls to form a top crust. Bake 30 min. at

        Hungarian Goulash

        2 lb beef tips, 2″ cubes 2 tsp paprika
        1 sm onion 1-1/2 tsp salt
        3 tbs Wesson oil 1/4 tsp pepper
        1 can whole tomatoes 1 c sour cream
        4 oz whole mushrooms 2 tbs flour

        Brown beef tips and onion in oil, add whole tomatoes, mushrooms
        and seasonings. Cover and simmer. Stir occasionally until meat is
        tender, about 1-1/2 hours. Blend flour and sour cream. Gradually
        stir into meat mixture. Heat to serving temperature.

        Beef Goulash

        3 lb beef, cubed 1 tsp salt
        2 tbs Cooking oil 1 can mushroom soup

        Brown the beef in cooking oil. Add salt and soup. Cover and
        simmer about 1 hour.

        Beef Burgundy

        2 lb beef round roast 2 cans beef gravy (or pkgs of
        1 clove of Garlic 1/4 tsp oregano
        3 med onions, sliced 1/2 c burgundy wine
        4 tbs butter 1/2 pt sour cream

        Cut beef into 1 inch cubes. Sprinkle with tenderizer. Saut garlic
        and onions in butter slowly until onions are clear or slightly
        browned. Remove onions and brown meat slowly in the drippings.
        Add beef gravy, salt, pepper and onions to pan. Simmer 15 min.
        Serve over rice.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!

        • Gees River Rat you are making me hungry. btw/ I “cut-n-pasting” all your recipes into a word doc file. Thanks. Keep en coming. Cast iron is something everybody needs to get, just to cook over a camp fire. It’s a good alternative to cook food if the grid goes down. I have one cast iron fry pan but I need to get the cooking pots with a lids. BTW/everybody should have a cord of wood stacked and split for that situation. Just got another free half a cord of hard wood oak, from some tree trimmers. I’ve been a busy beaver here prepping.

          • In a perfect world or for at least us in cold climes we are working on wood for the winter or two after the one coming up.

          • WWTI

            Agree on the cast iron cookware. You need a Dutch Oven, Griddle and a nice 12 inch skillet. Make sure you season them and know how to clean them. Lots of trees being cut down and you can find free wood riding around town.

            • Up here on the mountain, after every little storm there is plenty of downed wood to be scavenged for free. My problem is the little firebugs next door. I’d be in all kinds of danger if I piled up some wood around here. It would be an open invitation for them to set the pile on fire…I really hate those people…

      52. Dutch Oven:::

        Swiss Steak

        3 lb round steak 3 stalks celery, peeled,
        chopped fine
        3 tbs butter 1/2 c catsup
        1 tsp salt 1 tbs chopped parsley
        1 lg onion, diced

        Brown steak in butter. Add celery, catsup, parsley, and onion.
        Cover and simmer 2 to 2-1/2 hours. 1/2 c water may be needed if
        mixture thickens too much.

        Steak & Mushrooms

        1 lb mushrooms sliced 1/2 tsp salt
        2 c onions, diced 1/2 tsp pepper
        1/4 lb butter 1 round steak
        8 oz can tomato sauve flour
        1 tbs Worcestershire sauce

        Cut meat into strips and coat with flour. Saut in melted butter
        for 5 min. Add onion and mushrooms, cook another 5 min or until
        onion turn clear. Add remaining ingredients and stirr well.
        Simmer 1 to 1-1/2 hours. Serve over rice.

        French Style Roast Beaf

        3 lb Boneless chuck or 1 tsp salt
        rolled rump roast 1 tsp thyme
        6 whole cloves 5 peppercorns
        1 bay leaf 1 lg clove, garlic
        4 c water 4 med. carrots cut into quarters
        2 med. onions, quarterd 2 med. turnips cut into quarters
        2 med. stalks celery, cut into 1″ pieces

        Place beaf roast, salt, thyme, clove, peppercorns, bay leaf and
        garlic in Dutch oven, add water. Heat to boiling, reduce heat and
        simmer covered for 2-1/2 hours. Add remaining ingredients. Cover
        and simmer until beef and vegetables are tender, about 30 min.
        Remove beef and vegetables. Cut beef into 1/4″ slices. Strain
        broth and serve with beef and vegetables.

        Corned Beef & Cabbage

        2 lb well trimmed corned beef 1 sm onion, quartered
        boneless brisket or round 1 clove garlic, crushed
        1 sm head green cabbage, cut into 6 wedges
        6 med carots cut into quarters

        Pour enough cold water on corned beef in dutch oven to just
        cover. Add onion and garlic. Heat to boiling, reduce head. Cover
        and simmer until beef is tender, about 2 hours. Remove beef to
        warm platter, keep warm. Skim fat from broth. Add cabbage and
        carots, heat to boiling. Reduce heat and simmer uncovered 15 min.

        Round Steak Hawaiian

        1/4 c cooking oil 1 can sliced water chestnuts,
        1-1/2 lb round steak 1 jar homestyle beef gravy
        1 bell pepper cut into strips Chow mein noodles
        1 lb mushrooms, sliced 1/2 tsp salt

        Cut steak into 1/4″ strips. Heat oil over medium-high heat. Add
        steak, onion, green pepper, mushrooms and salt. Cook until meat
        is brown, stirring constantly. Drain and add water chestnuts and
        gravy. Cover and simmer 1-1/2 to 2 hours, stirring occasionally.
        Serve over rice and sprinkle with chow mien noodles.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!

      53. Dutch Oven:::

        Flank Steak Teriyaki

        4-6 flank steaks 4-6 pineapple slices
        1 tbsp. salad oil 1/2 c soy sauce
        1/4 c sugar 2 tbsp. sherry (optional)
        1 tsp ginger 1 clove garlic, crushed
        1/2 tsp MSG

        To form marinade, combine all except steaks and pineapple. Mix
        well and pour over steaks. Let marinate 1 to 1-1/2 hours. Fry
        steaks in very hot hot oven or skillet brushing once with
        marinade. Add pineapple during last few minutes, brush with
        Marinade and cover. Cook 3-5 min. Serve over rice.

        Meat Loaf

        3 lb. ground beef 1/2 c bell pepper
        1-1/2 c quick oats 2 pkg onion soup mix
        2 eggs 1-1/2 tsp salt
        1/2 tsp dry mustard 1/4 tsp marjoram

        Mix all ingredients and put in casserole pan. Place in Dutch
        Oven. Bake 1 hour, covered.

        Corned Beef with Dijon Glaze

        3 lb. corned beef brisket 4 c water
        1/4 c vinegar 1/4 c Worcestershire Sauce
        2 bay leaves 8 whole cloves
        3 cloves garlic, crushed 1/2 c Dijon mustard
        1/2 c orange marmalade 2 tbsp. horseradish
        2 tbsp. Worcestershire Sauce

        Place brisket in Dutch oven. Add water and next 5 ingredients,
        bring to a boil. Cover, reduce heat and simmer 2-1/2 to 3 hours
        or until tender. In a small saucepan, combine Dijon mustard,
        Marmalade, horseradish, and Worcestershire sauce. Cook over medium
        heat, stirring constantly, until bubbly. Remove brisket and
        drain. Return to oven and spread with 1/2 c glaze. Bake at 350
        for 20 min. serve with remaining glaze.

        Spaghetti & Meatballs

        1 lg onion 1 clove garlic, crushed
        1 tsp sugar 1 tsp oregano leaves
        3/4 tsp salt 3/4 tsp basil leaves
        1/2 tsp marjoram leaves 1 can (8 oz.) tomato sauce
        4 c hot cooked spaghetti 1 can (16 oz.) whole tomatoes

        For Meatballs:
        1 lb. ground beef 1/2 c dry bread crumbs
        1/4 c milk 3/4 tsp salt
        1/2 tsp Worcestershire sauce 1/4 tsp pepper
        1 sm onion diced (1/4 c) 1 egg

        Meatballs:Mix all ingredients, shape into 1-1/2 inch meatballs.
        Place in dutch oven and bake at 400 until done and light brown,
        20 to 25 min.

        Prepare spaghetti according to package instructions. Mix all
        Ingredients except meatballs break up tomatoes. Heat to boiling,
        reduce heat. Cover and simmer, stirring occasionally, 30 min.
        Stir meatballs onto mixture, Cover and simmer stirring
        occasionally, 30 min longer. Serve over spaghetti and if desired,
        with grated parmesan cheese.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!

        • Rat,do realize different stuff,just rare to see a triple.

      54. Off topic; 550 Majors to be let go from Army. Per Obama

        • The US Military is bloated, they need to cut the budget in half too, and cut half of the bases world wide. This Adventurism world wide is bankrupting our country. Eliminate the CIA for starters. The Pentagon cannot account for 25% of it annual budget. Poof disappeared Poof Gone. And I bet the Military accounts for half of the $17.5 Trillion Nat debt.

      55. Damn,seen a lot of double posts but Rat,you hit a “trifecta”!

        • It’s beginning?!: ht tp:// ,they are not confirming what women died of,if,of course any one died and just the false flag start.I apologize as will be seen twice as far as post,forgot to put space between http in first and got the dreaded”moderation”,figured perhaps important enuff to have twice,we at Warchild Dammit! apologize for the technical difficulties.

        • 70 to 1 odds. We shoulda bet the farm!

      56. uummm yeah… this looks kinda important to know

        “Just a lil’ while ago a western tribunal in The Hague suddenly ruled that the former shareholders of the dismantled Russian oil giant Yukos were entitled to $50 billion in compensation to be paid by the Russian government.”

        a surprise verdict to Russia!

        Russia’s unexpected response…

        In chilling response, a person close to Putin reportedly said,

        “There is a war coming in Europe. Do you really think this matters?”


      57. London – “Jet from Africa is quarantined after the death of passenger who was ‘sweating and vomiting’ before she collapsed.”

        “Airport staff tonight told of their fears of an Ebola outbreak after a passenger from Sierra Leone collapsed and died as she got off a plane at Gatwick.”

        Drudge Report

      58. @ slingshot. China earthquake, right along the northern Australian plate, but not a major earthquake of 6.5+. Does show the stress level of what is going on with the plates.

        The new precursor earthquake was on the Nothern Mid Atlantic Ridge, 50.2N by 28.9w and occurred on the same spot before the 1989 World Series earthquake. Also Alaska is strongly indicated here with again, the Australian plate, watch Fiji and Kermadec Islands. Last year same spot was hit and 8.0 occurred in the Soloman Islands. Taiwan and west coast of South America also high level of tension. Like anyone would care, the South Sandwich Islands is showing a lot of tension now.

        • BI.

          Your in the ball park.

          Batter up!

      59. I’ll move to Eastern Tennessee right after I marry my Brother (not).
        And know this.. The absolutely WORST fog you will ever drive thru is on Blue Ridge Highway. When it’s bad , you won’t be able to see much past your headlights and you’ll be high up there. It’s like driving thru Twilight Zone.. Take it from someone who’s been there.

      60. sensationalistic headline ???

        UK raises fears of Ebola “dirty bomb” as doctor Kent Brantly ‘improves’ after taking experimental antibody serum

        “EXPERTS fear terror groups are building a “dirty bomb” containing the fearful flesh-eating Ebola virus and plan to explode it in a UK city.”

        • Maybe they could make that DC, or better yet, The Vatican City…get the highest volume of globalists per sq. mile…

      61. We have a couple hurricaines headed our way, will keep a photo and video diary if it gets real and share the experience with yall,,,
        Could get real interesting towards the end of the week, we are way over due for a strong storm

      62. Maybe just a hole in the ground where your at ?

      63. “All it takes is one cough, one sneeze, one drop of saliva, and the virus is loose in one of the main transportation centers of the US.” -Paul Craig Roberts. Is it coincidence that the Ebola patient was taken to Atlanta, GA where the TV show, The Walking Dead is filmed?

      64. “The Blue Ridge Mountains to the east are also highly rated—perhaps too much so. They have attracted moonshiners for hundreds of years as well as law enforcement surveillance. And there are complaints from new comers buying into rural mountain land that the “natives are less than hospitable” to outsiders.”

        As an outsider that moved to the Blue Ridge in Virginia about nine years ago, I can attest that this is true. “You ain’t from around here,” is more common that one might think. Some counties are worse than others when it comes to hostility towards new people. Personally, I think this is a problem for a prepper because the natives hate you already, killing you and taking your stuff will not bother them….

        Also, there are those pesky black helicopters that will hover around your house with an IR sensor looking for hot spots that might be grow rooms for maryjane, and if they think you just might be growing that forbidden weed, the tactical team will be at your door in a just a few minutes…

        • There is no such thing as a “bug out location”. The govt has it’s claws in everything, everywhere. There is no place to go to get away from them…not anymore.

          And the govt is much more dangerous than “zombies”.

      65. I would look a little farther north and east because of the three TVA nuclear power plants in Central Tennessee. Recall that a blackout (as from an EMP device) combined with a non-functioning backup generator can result in a Fukushima style meltdown in a matter of hours. Once a meltdown starts no amount of water can fix it. (Ask anybody who lives within 50 miles of Fukushima how that worked out for them.) Eastern Tennessee is a potential radioactive hot zone.
        The other problem with Eastern Tennessee is that towns like Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge are tourist hot spots. Lots of people in the East know those places. Staying west of the Appalachian Mountains is a good idea though. You just have to get away from the TVA and the tourist areas. The area where Tennessee, Kentucky and Virginia come together looks like the safest place if you stay about the same distance away from Knoxville, Lexington, and Roanoke.
        Land in Eastern Kentucky is probably cheaper because Eastern Kentucky has no economy outside of coal mining (and probably some marijuana growing in the woods.) You will have to have your own online business to make it there. But, the same goes for other remote locations. Under-populated places are that way for a reason – no jobs. Property crime is probably a greater threat there for that reason.
        A steel ocean cargo container painted the same colors as the surrounding terrain is just about as good as having a basement. Buy two such containers: one to live in and one to store supplies in, and join them together. Camouflage the whole thing and make sure there are lots of trees and brush surrounding it all. From 100’ away it should be invisible.
        Online land sales is a joke. Every such website I have looked at lists only high-priced land. You will have to go to the area of interest in person. Pick up the local Nickel Ads (or whatever they call it there) and look for cheap land for sale by the owner. Never pay a Realtor’s fee. Make sure there are no protective covenants. You want land that you can do almost anything on. You want it cheap too. Make sure there’s a creek nearby, but not in the middle of the property where the state or county might take issue with dropping a couple of cargo containers.

        • Don’t forget about Browns Ferry in Athens, AL. Three Mark 1 GE reactors there, the same ones that melted down at Fukushima. Go west and north out of the eastern US altogether.

      66. Truth Hurts Bitch!

        ht tp://

      67. Hussman’s Hint Of Advance Warning

        “Historically-informed investors are being given a hint of advance warning here, in the form of a strenuously overvalued market that now demonstrates a clear breakdown in internals.

        We observe these breakdowns in the form of surging credit spreads (junk bond yields versus Treasury yields of similar maturity), weakness in small capitalization stocks, and other measures. These divergences have actually been building for months, but rather quietly.”

        “We don’t take any single divergence as serious in itself, but the accumulation of divergences in recent weeks should not be ignored.”


      68. very interesting development

        Saudis calls in Pakistani troops for protection against ISIS…8StratRisks%29

      69. Arkansas
        IS CLOSED TOO.
        Especially IF you don’t speak English, keep on moving north. Detroit is FINE this time of the year and oh yes it’s Obama country too.

        • and in Arkansas you better have the proper accent We don’t like Yankees.

      70. I’m founder of Sewanee Creek referenced in this article. Nice that the link does NOT take you to info on our community. We are a pretty low key bunch. Joel is a friend and I agree with his assessment of the area. His book re confirmed what I had figured out on my own, about 9 years ago. If you are interested, you can reach me for an interview at [email protected]

      71. I’m founder of Sewanee Creek referenced in this article. Nice that the link does NOT take you to info on our community. We are a pretty low key bunch. Joel is a friend and I agree with his assessment of the area. His book re confirmed what I had figured out on my own, about 9 years ago. If you are interested, you can reach me for an interview at [email protected]

      72. If you are really serious about surviving the coming collapse of industrial civilization here’s my advice. Get up wind of the nuclear power industry which means north and west of the Mississippi River. The eastern US has most of the 100 power reactors and as many probably know by now, once the power goes down, the spent fuel pools will boil off their water and then burn. That is going to dose the eastern US. The area in question, Appalachia, is going to get it from the TVA reactors as well as those in Illinois. At one point I considered New England, but then looked at all the reactors to the southwest and in Canada and decided to look else where. There are reasons why James Wesley Rawles recommends the Inland Northwest. Alaska would be another good choice. Once things fly apart in the US, the population density in the east will be a real big disadvantage for those wishing to be left alone. If I had known in 2004 what I know now I would have moved out of VA then and never come back. My place is for sale by the way, if you really want to stay in SW VA….

      73. All,

        There may be places in TN that would make a good bug out spot, but the Cumberland Plateau is not one of them, and for one main reason…WATER! I have extended family that lives up there, and there’s barely even enough water pressure there to keep the toilets flushing and showers running. Because there is not enough rain to maintain a natural water supply there, water has to be pumped and supplied up both sides of the mini-mountain on which the plateau sits. Unfortunately, the same natural features that might make a retreat up there undesirable for the Golden Horde and easier to defend could make it fatal to the plateau’s residents when Schumer hits, the power is gone, and there’s no way to get water up the mountain. The only way I’d even remotely recommend it is if you can get a lakefront place or a place with other freshwater access from the property. There are places like that, but they’re not cheap. If you can’t find and afford a place with an answer for the water conundrum, look elsewhere for a retreat.

        • where in SWVA?

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