Sniper Basics For The SHTF Survivalist

by | Jan 30, 2014 | Emergency Preparedness | 442 comments

Editor’s Note: The following primer for Survivalist Snipers is a must-read (and implement) for anyone who is serious about preserving their life and liberty in the event of a worst-case scenario. Brandon Smith of Alt-Market.com has generously contributed his time and energy to developing this guide and sharing it with our community.

sniper image2(Pictured: Alt-Market.com founder Brandon Smith)

God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best – Voltaire

For a long time sniper tactics have been consider by many, even in the military, to be akin to a kind of state designated “murder” rather than a legitimate combat strategy. Only in recent years has sniping achieved a certain level of recognition. Centuries of warfare have passed in which snipers were happily recruited for their skills, and then quickly swept under the rug and forgotten once conflict was over. Daniel Morgan and his crack-shot riflemen were instrumental in America’s revolutionary victory over the British. U.S. sharpshooters rained hell down on German troops from over 900 yards during WWI. Snipers have dominated the battlefield in every modern conflagration. Yet, regimented sniping schools were not standardized in the U.S. Army until 1987. All previous schools were abandoned within a few years of their establishment.

Why did it take so long for the sniper to be recognized as essential to victory? Perhaps because snipers are TOO effective, to the point that they become frightening to the establishment.

During the Finnish “Winter War” against the Soviet Union in which they were vastly outnumbered and outgunned, guerrilla tactics, which they called “Motti tactics”, were used to excellent effect. The Finnish devastated the Soviets using hit and run attacks, homemade and improvised weapons, and snipers. The most famous of these snipers was Simo Hayha.

Simo was a common farmer with a diminutive stature of only 5 feet 3 inches tall. His shooting prowess was honed as a hunter in the wilderness of Finland. Simo is credited with over 505 (official) kills, including several teams of Soviet counter-snipers sent specifically to eliminate him. These kills were made during less than 100 days of combat, meaning Hayha engaged and destroyed 5 targets per day by himself. Known as the “White Death”, Simo would finally be removed from the battlefield by a lucky shot from an explosive tipped rifle round to the face while holding off a Soviet advance; he would wake up later in a Finnish hospital at the very end of the war and die of old age in the year 2002.

Simo Hayha proved once and for all the effectiveness of a single shooter in the face of a more powerful opponent. This kind of attrition warfare stopped the more technologically advanced Russians in their tracks, and ended their pursuit of total invasion. The poorly armed Finish prevailed despite all odds.

Sniper training turns a simple rifleman into a weapon of long range mass destruction, which is probably the reason why most governments around the globe have been reluctant until recently to educate more than a handful of soldiers on sniping methods. Hypothetically, a team of snipers could be dangerous enough to topple the political leadership (or oligarchy) of any given nation with nothing more than a few finely tuned rifles and a couple boxes of high caliber rounds.

Governments, fearful of being outdone by such low-tech adversaries, have gone to great lengths in an attempt to negate the sniper as a threat. Night vision, thermal vision, sound detection equipment, gas attacks, white phosphorous attacks, even large scale artillery barrages and laser guided missiles have not been able to stop snipers from remaining as a primary combat tool. Snipers always find a way around existing defenses, no matter how high tech. This is why sniper techniques are one of the ultimate strategies for self defense of the common citizenry usually disarmed of military grade weaponry.

I often hear skepticism when discussing the concept of long range combat techniques for survivalists. People ask why survivalists should even bother with sniper methods? How would they identify legitimate targets that present a tangible threat from such a distance? And, don’t most firefights occur within a range of 50 yards or less?

These questions come generally from inexperience with the methodology and the training. Sniper tactics are as much about reconnaissance as they are about precision shooting. Scoping and identifying targets before they pull the trigger is 90 percent of their job, and they tend to do it well. Unless they happen to work for the ATF or the FBI, usually, snipers are required to evaluate targets before engagement rather than firing on anything unlucky enough to stumble into their crosshairs. This process is just as applicable to the survival sniper as it is to an Army or Marine sniper.

In terms of common combat ranges, it is true that most military engagements occur in close quarters, but this is due more to the manner in which standard militaries conduct operations. Armies with superior numbers and technology PREFER to use shock and awe and CQC in order to quickly overwhelm and subdue the enemy. The modern method of warfare (or local police swat raids for that matter) is merely a refined form of blitzkrieg. The guerrilla fighter, on the other hand, has to remain adaptable, and in many cases, controlling the timing and distance of the fight is his only advantage. Sniper tactics are better suited to the underdog, not mechanized military operations. It behooves the survivalist to have long distance capabilities because there is little chance he will ever be anything but the underdog.

I am a relative newcomer to the world of long distance shooting and sniping with only a couple years of training, and I know how difficult the discipline appears to people who have just become curious about it. The modern “mystic” surrounding the sniper is deserved in certain respects, however, once the fundamentals are learned, it is surprising how easy your shots actually become, even at 1000 yards-plus, if you have the correct mindset.

Before you can practice such accuracy, though, there are many steps you need to take, and they should be taken in this order…

Choose A Caliber

If you want to become a precision shooter it is absolutely vital that you carefully research the caliber of round you will eventually use. The caliber will determine the kind of rifle platform you purchase, not to mention the scope and reloading equipment (if you decide to load your own rounds). Most of us do not have the kind of cash necessary to apply the trial and error method. You have to choose right the first time, otherwise, thousands of dollars may go down the drain.

Your typical AK-47, AR-15, or run-of-the-mill hunting rifle is not going to be effective in a sniper scenario. Such weapons are generally not designed for engaging targets at more than 500 yards, and the average hunting rifle is not designed to take the kind of abuse faced during combat conditions. The .223 round is sometimes used for sniping in urban settings (usually between 100 to 300 yards) where limited penetration is needed in order to avoid collateral damage, but is not practical for long range.

The most common caliber used for long distance sniper platforms is the .308. The .308 has an effective range of around 800-1000 yards (sometimes more depending on the type of the bullet). I would consider it the bare minimum caliber required to achieve sniper accuracy and penetration at longer distances. Similar calibers, like the .30-06 or the 7.62 by 54, have equal capabilities, however, combat ready rifles which easily mount tactical scopes are difficult to find for them.

The 300 win mag and the 7mm are the next step up entering into the “magnum” rifle caliber category, with excellent range and accuracy. The 300 win mag can be fired effectively at over a mile (1760 yards), and is my personal favorite.

The next stage in long range is far more expensive. The .338 Lapua and the .50 BMG are range capable at 2700 yards or more, are so heavy that they penetrate most armor, and can be employed to take down vehicles as well as human beings. Expect to pay around $3 to $4 per round for .338 and $5-plus per round when training with .50 cal. Reloading can diminish the expenses slightly.

Choose A Rifle

Once you’ve researched and decided upon a caliber you can afford, the next step is purchasing a rifle platform that fits the stringent requirements of long distance shooting. Here are some guidelines for getting started:

Rifle Accuracy Of 1 MOA (Minute Of Angle) Or Less – The rifle must be able to fire shot groups of less than 1 inch apart at 100 yards. A 1 MOA rifle will fire a shot group of around 10 inches at 1000 yards, and any deviation of a couple inches on a human target could mean a miss. There are some out-of-the-box rifles that easily fire within 1 MOA. Some platforms will need to be re-barreled.

Semi-Auto Or Bolt Action – A few semi-auto rifles do have the accuracy you would need for long distance. The Springfield M1A, the FNAR, certain retooled versions of the AR-10, etc, can all become excellent sniper platforms. Semi-automatics have the advantage of sending more rounds downrange faster, and allow you to acquire new targets without worrying about cycling the bolt. They are, though, designed with looser tolerances than the common bolt action, which means ranges surpassing 800 yards are more difficult. Bolt action rifles tend to have very low capacity mags, and are slower to cycle, but many models do have tighter chambers and heavier barrels which result in more consistently accurate shots at 1000 yards or more. Your choice of rifle depends on the kinds of situations you expect to run into.

Rifle Make And Model – How common are replacement parts and mags for your rifle? How common is the the caliber? Will you be able to procure ammo and parts easily? Will you be able to share supplies with other shooters in your survival community, or is nothing interchangeable? These are some important factors to consider before laying down cash on a rifle system.

Smooth Bolt And Trigger – Your bolt should cycle smoothly without resistance. Your semi-auto should not suffer from any jamming. Your trigger should be light and intuitive.

Floated Barrel – A floated barrel is a barrel that does not come into contact with any part of the rifle stock. A narrow space between the stock and the barrel prevents interference by the stock with the “harmonics” of the barrel. Shots become more consistent, and damage to the stock does not effect accuracy.

Heavy Barrel Or Factory Barrel – Military snipers are often supplied with heavy barrel rifles because the weight of the barrel allows for more consistent shots, less overheating, and better harmonics. However, a heavy barrel is NOT necessary to achieve sniper accuracy. Many factory made barrels can get the job done just as well and for less money.

This particular rifle is a Tikka 695 manufactured by Sako in Finland.  The 695 features a floated barrel and removable magazine, which is rare for a bolt action, and allows for fast reloading if you have spares.  The scope is a fixed 10 power SWFA SS, and the muzzle break is temporary. The trigger and bolt are incredibly smooth for an off-the-shelf rifle and Sako ensures that every rifle they produce shoots at 1MOA or less before it leaves the factory, making the Tikka one of the best low cost firearms for the beginning sniper.  This rifle has been tested out to 1000 yards and is consistently accurate. The entire package costs less than $1000.

Choose A Scope

The standard for long range shooting is a mil-dot scope, either fixed power or variable, with 1/4 MOA adjustment knobs. It must also be rated to handle the recoil of the caliber you are shooting. Illuminated reticles, night vision options, in-scope reference and ranging dots, and numerous other bells and whistles should depend upon your defense needs. I prefer an uncluttered scope with a simple mildot reticle like the one below…

Those seeking to learn long range shooting can be easily overwhelmed by the scope selection on the market today. One could spend up to $2000 – $3000; more than he would spend on a prospective rifle. If you have that kind of green, then by all means, pick up a high end Leupold, Vortex, Nightforce, or Schmidt and Bender. If you don’t (and I’m assuming most of you, like me, don’t), there are still a few excellent scopes out there for minimal cash.

Companies like Burris, Millett, and SWFA all have sniper grade scopes designed to handle heavy abuse for around $300 to $400. The optics used by these companies are excellent, and only slightly less proficient at light collection than scopes several times more costly. The primary issue is that the scope holds its zero, and is not easily broken.

Choose Your Ammo And Reloading Press

Reloading is a vast and sometimes daunting skill set that takes a lot of time and patience to master. The process is indeed tedious, and the fun only really happens when you get to take your precision reloads out to the range and witness the extreme accuracy they afford. A year ago, I would have said that reloading was an excellent way to save money on ammunition, but in light of the recent ammo purchasing bonanza just before the latest attack on the 2ndAmendment by the White House, finding the exact materials you need today can be expensive or in some cases impossible.

There are plenty of factory-made match grade rounds on the market right now that will do pretty much whatever you need them to do. I would only recommend venturing into the world of reloading if you have a good source of components (powder, primers, brass, and bullets), and if you plan to hone your expertise past 1000 yards. For such distances you need extra heavy bullets which can maintain momentum and trajectory, and it is difficult to find factory rounds with heavier projectiles. Also, if you are shooting a magnum-grade caliber, there can be some noticeable savings in reloading.

These reloaded .300 Win Mag rounds utilize a 210 grain boat tail hollow point bullet.  It took a lot of trial and error to find the best combination of powder, primer, and projectile for my particular rifle, but the sub-MOA groups created by these rounds make the effort worth it.

If you decide to reload, very simple equipment is available that will fill your requirements for relatively low cost. Lee’s single stage press or classic press kit, for instance, works perfectly for the long range shooter, and can be purchased for around $100. You’ll then need press “dies” designed specifically for the caliber you have chosen to shoot, along with shell holders, powder measure, scale, etc. etc. There is nowhere near enough space to cover reloading thoroughly here. The important thing is that you research every aspect of the round you plan to build, create your test-fire groups, pick what gives you the best accuracy and speed, then stock up on as much powder and other components as possible while you still can.

Remember, if you change any components in the rounds you use, the flight path of the bullet will change, the point of impact will change, and how you adjust your scope will change, so try to stick with the same components for every round you make.

Learn How To Make The Shot

One of the biggest obstacles for many seeking to learn sniper tactics is simply finding a shooting range that offers long distance targets. Most private and state run ranges across the country are no more than 300 – 500 yards. This is not adequate. Once you have found a range of 700 yards or more, you must then learn these vital fundamentals…

Calculate Distance To Target – Perhaps THE most important of all skills required for sniping is the ability to effectively calculate distance. This is the area in which most people give up on long distance shooting, when it is, in reality, very simple, and you don’t need an expensive laser rangefinder to do it.

Using the mil-dots in your scope and the equation below, you can easily estimate rage:

Known size of target (in yards) x 1000 divided by size of target in Mil Dots =Range in yards

The average adult human being is between 5-6 feet tall (or around 2 yards), as long as you remember this the rest is self explanatory. An even faster method for estimating rage is to use an item called a Mildot Master, which is a sliding analog calculator made of plastic. If you know the general size of your target in inches or feet, all you have to do is measure the number of mildots the target covers in your scope, then slide the calculator until the two measurements meet; the Mildot Master gives you a close to exact distance of the the target.

Once you know the distance to target, you can adjust your scope to compensate for bullet drop.

Know Your Bullet Drop And Dope Chart – Bullets do not fly in a straight line. Rather, they fly in an arc, like an artillery shell or a football. The amount of drop in your bullet at any given distance will determine how much you need to adjust the crosshairs of your scope upwards in order to compensate. To calculate bullet drop you must first know how fast your particular bullet travels as it leaves the barrel of your particular rifle. To do this, you need to either purchase or borrow a piece of gear called a “chronograph”.

Chronographs are very easy to use. Just fire your test bullets over top of the device and it will relay the speed in feet per second. All reloaders should have a chronograph on hand. Once you know the speed of the bullet, you can go online to any number of shooter websites, enter the data on the bullet, and the website will print out a “Dope Chart” for you. This chart will tell you exactly how many clicks to adjust your scope at any given range.

Laminate your dope chart and keep it on or near your rifle at all times.

Adjust For Wind And Temperature – Adjusting for wind and temperature is an intuitive process. Some snipers use mini weather stations that give exact wind and temperature readings in the field. The most reliable of these devices cost in the range of $300 to $500. Any adjustments due to wind and temp will usually be small, only a couple of MOA left or right, up or down. Temperature can have a noticeable effect on the speed of a bullet, thus changing point of impact. Higher temperature means a faster burn rate on powder, creating more speed. Cold weather means reduced speed. Be sure to test your rounds at differing temperatures and wind speeds and keep notes on how this effects your zero.

Pulling The Trigger – You have fine tuned your rifle, you have perfected range estimation, you know everything there is to know about the bullet you are shooting, you have memorized your dope chart, and now, you are ready to pull the trigger. When you place your crosshairs on a target, you should be 99.999% certain that the bullet will hit, but there is still the matter of “human error” to deal with.

This is where the greatness or “artistry” of the trained sniper is measured. To be blunt, not just anyone can make a 1000-plus yard shot. In fact, many people don’t have the patience or the mindset to achieve such a goal. The average shooter has a tendency to defeat himself before he ever fires a round. No one can teach you to focus your mind, that is an attribute that must be learned on your own. That said, once you are able to focus, pulling the trigger becomes a mere matter of proper body alignment.

When shooting from the prone position, the butt of the rifle should be firmly planted in your shoulder, your non-shooting hand should be under the stock providing steady balance, and your body should be completely relaxed. Your muscles do NOT provide the support for the rifle, your skeleton is the support. The only muscle that should be moving at all is your trigger finger.

Before pulling the trigger, you must measure the tempo of your breathing. There is a moment in every breath in which your body is the most still; it is different for every person, and this is when you fire. Pull the trigger straight back using the tip of your finger. Continue holding for a moment, and then release. Try not to blink during the shot. In fact, challenge yourself to keep your eyes open preceding the recoil. This will condition your body to resist the impulse to flinch before or during the shot.

Adjusting The Shot

After the shot is released, you can often see the spiraling trail of the bullet in your scope as it cuts through the air. A friend can aid you as your spotter as well. Your first shot, also known as the “cold bore shot”, is the most important. In a combat situation, the cold bore shot is usually the only shot a sniper takes before exfiltration. Sometimes, adjustment for a second shot on target is possible, but you will only have a matter of seconds to make it happen. At long distances, the bullet impact occurs long before the crack of the gun reaches the ears of the target, giving you a moment to reacquire and shoot again before he realizes what is happening.

Watch for bullet splash in the terrain surrounding the target, including rising dust and flying shrapnel. Shift your reticle accordingly.

Stealth And Concealment

Once you have mastered accuracy, it is time to focus on concealment. This requires an understanding of color, shadow, shape, and micro-terrain. The use of micro-terrain allows a sniper to move across areas most people would consider “wide open”. Grasses, bushes, rock formations, and small impressions in the earth give the sniper just enough concealment to make him invisible. The Ghillie Suit is the most common form of camouflage for the professional sniper, but I prefer lighter materials that can be quickly thrown over top of the BDU’s you are already wearing. Speed and maneuverability are sacrificed while wearing the extremely thick and heavy ghillie. Thermal reflective materials are also important when covering heat signature. Natural barriers can be used to obscure movement. A sniper must have considerable patience. A single sniper stalk could take hours, or even days. One’s movement must be so slow and methodical that it never registers as abnormal in the eyes of security or video surveillance.

The author and his spotter for the day, Maggie, somewhere in the wilds of Montana.

Sniper methods are invaluable to the survivalist for numerous reasons. They create a standoff distance that is highly intimidating to aggressors. They give the survivalist the ability to remain unseen if he wishes. They give him the ability to engage and destroy opponents with more advanced arms and greater numbers. They train the average person to think asymmetrically; to prevail using less resources and with less risk. They make him a truly viable threat, with nothing more on hand than a rifle and a few precision rounds of ammunition. A single sniper can change the balance of a conflict and snatch momentum away from the most powerful of enemies. The more liberty minded people who have this skill, the better.

Special thanks to the Kalispell long distance shooting group (you guys know who you are) for helping me fine tune my 1000 yard shot.

You can contact Brandon Smith at:  [email protected]

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    442 Comments

    1. It'sColdHere

      Nice article. However, get good with that 10/22 you have sitting in a closet. Get VERY good with it. 1000 yard shots are nice but to survive between battles (hopefully you never get in one) you’ll need to know that 22 inside and out and be able to hit a Walnut with it.

      Oh – he mentions parts but only briefly. If Joe not so six pack has to become a hometown sniper parts are gone forever. BUY THEM NOW. KNOW HOW TO FIX YOUR PLATFORM. PRINT diagrams, etc, etc. You should have every part you can get your hands on and afford. Start with a spring set and a firing pin, move to trigger groups and ejectors from there then barrels and stocks. If you go with a common platform chances are you’ll be able to barter extra parts or find parts you need from guns ‘not being used any longer…’.

      Scopes are great – glass breaks and fine wire looses zero. Get good with them iron sites.

      Print this article out and study it, good stuff.

      That is all.

      • durango kidd

        Breathe. Relax. Aim. Slack. Squeeze. WE are all Seal Team America. 🙂

        • Average Guy

          “WE are all Seal Team America.”???

          Mang, you’re a mixed up a wack job. “We” are Not a Seal team. That’s a gooberment gig. Give it a rest. There is no ‘I’ in team. And I, and many others, ain’t willing to give up our ‘I’ status like you appear to be so eager to do.

          Uff Da!

          • Old Gringo

            As the 82nd Airborne sniper said to his platoon commander when they were blocked and pinned by a Tiger tank: “Sir, all I know is that unless they don’t mind sleepin’ in their own shit, they gotta climb outta that can sometime.”

          • Pip-Boy

            No but there is a “me” in team if you jumble it around.

          • Paranoid

            Am I the only one that noticed issues with his sniper picture that would get him killed in seconds? His nice little pink face, head against the background, up in the air far enough to spot planes, steam from his breath, Black, shiny, straight rifle, 6 inches above the snow. Some pro’s out there; what have I missed?

            • Brandon Smith

              @paranoid

              The photo is a showpiece for the top of the article, not an example of perfect sniper camo. If I was in full camo, then there would be nothing to take a picture of, and nothing to look at, and thus, no point in the photo. This is not hard to understand, right?

              • Mama Bear

                Whaaaaaaat??? Now you’ll probably try to tell us that Maggie WASN’T actually your spotter. 🙂

                Next time, just make sure to include a photo of empty woods and invite the readership to spot you. Then laugh your Dr. Evil laugh as everyone goes bonkers. Good times.

              • George Zimmerman

                Another keyboard commando.

              • Paranoid

                Perhaps, but I’d learn more about what I should do. I already know I should hit my target, and unfortunately I also Know at a 1000 yards my eyes won’t see you anymore and even when I was good, in Wyo wind, I couldn’t hit you. But I can drop an antelope at 300, and I figure a person at 500 is in big trouble. That’s why I shoot a 25-06

                • Odd Questioner

                  I miss the old .25-06 – I used it to plink prairie dogs …strangely enough, in Wyoming (near Evanston, to be precise – the sheep farmers out that way loved to see guys like me for some odd reason 😉 ).

                  Funny thing about that caliber – the slightest wind would knock it about, making accuracy a literal crap-shoot. Seriously – a light (25mph) cross-wind would have me putting the ‘dog deep into a lower corner quadrant of the scope just to have some hope of hitting the damned thing at real (200yd+) distance.

                  Now a .30-06, or the .338 would simply not give a damn (or at least not nearly as much). But let’s face it – you shoot a ‘dog with a .338 Win Mag, and there’s not much of it left afterwards.

                  That said, most of the above article is practical advice for hunting in the more open areas of the Western US (e.g. chasing elk in Utah), because ~500 yards is about as close as you can really hope to get to your prey.

                  With all due respect to Brandon, there’s a lot missing from his article about actual sniping post-SHTF.

                  For example, how do you tell at a distance whether your intended target is a real threat, or is most likely to just keep moseying on by? Seriously – shooting at a small group of people may end up being the only reason they do come after you, where otherwise they would have just walked by without knowing that you and your home even exists.

                  Another example? No problem – the bit about reloading is nice, but tell the nice people HOW to reload for distance shooting, and not just tell them to jack up the Muzzle FPS. For instance, what kind of bullets travel the flattest (FMJ)? What bullet weights do you look for (yes, there is a variety)? What kind of powder do you really want to look for? These things do make a difference.

                  Overall, I found a lot missing… I do realize that treating the subject fully would take a very big article, but a little more info would’ve been nice. 🙂

              • NoRegretVet

                @ Brandon Smith

                Brandon….I thought your article was beyond “Excellent” and just wanted to thank you for taking so much time to pass on all your wisdom and experience to this forum…..

                And I think Miss Maggie and the beautiful area added a wonderful touch to the photo !!!

                Thank you

                • Brandon Smith

                  Thanks, Vet. I think there are a lot of chest beaters out there that criticize because they have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion and they just want people to buy into how “great” they are, but really, I’m only relaying information.

                  I’ve grown tired of all the keyboard cowboys out there who are somehow “experts” on everything, and wanted to let regular preppers and survivalists know that this info is NOT just the exclusive domain of so-called spec-ops ninjas. Whether you have to take a shot at 300 yards, or 1000, the point is to be adaptable. Anyone who tells you only they have the perfect methodology to sniper training, or combat training in general, is simply full of horse hockey. Everything I teach has been taught to me be veterans who have actually dealt with combat scenarios and I would never pass on methods that do not work.

                  The era of the secret spec-ops elitist club is over. It’s time to educate the masses on this training instead of keeping it hidden just so some of us can feel superior.

                • BJ

                  Spot on vet and thanks from me too Brandon. I only wish I was there learning with you from those experienced ones……but your in high priced country or I would be there.

                • John Henry

                  “The era of the secret spec-ops elitist club is over. It’s time to educate the masses on this training instead of keeping it hidden just so some of us can feel superior.”

                  100 acres you and I . You, any weapons you want. Me, my trusty ka-bar. Have you ever wanted to see you gall bladder up close and personal?

                  Kid I appreciate your effort but it’s sounds to me as if you actually think you are as effective as the real deal. That’s dangerous thinking.

                • Anonymous

                  2 liter soda bottle, notched, with the bottom cut off and a strip of army wool blanket rolled up inside makes a nice, disposable suppressor. Just another piece of trash along the road-side. Your target at 500m would be nary the wiser, unless you just winged ’em…

              • (D.C.)newbee

                Thanks for the article Brandon. For the guys like me who don’t no it all already and are trying to learn really appreciate articles like this.

              • Jay

                You have zero military experience correct?

                • WhoWuddaThunkIt

                  Facts have shown, Military experience and training and with the best equipment in the world, does NOT have much to do with Success. Just look at the 2 last losing wars the U.S. fought against the ragtag Jihad folks who seem to still be in charge in Afghanistan and Iraq. Self determination dominates over neatuniforms, a measly monthly paycheck and pension, even with training and top notch equipment. Never under estimate the power of determination of folks protecting their home turf. Just saying.. Your badges, patches and medals mean nothing if you still loose the war.

            • Sgt. Dale

              P
              Yes he didn’t have any head cover, or face paint.
              Dark hair in the snow gives you away.
              I think it was just for the article.
              Go job on picking it out.
              Sgt.

            • Casey Jones

              His camo sux and there is a treeline 15 yards behind him. Don’t have to be a pro to know it’s a picture of a dead sniper.

              Vanity kills. 🙂

              • KC jones

                Drivin that train, high on cocaine……

              • Odd Questioner

                @Casey:

                You do realize that he wasn’t doing anything sniper-ish there, right? That the portrait was intentional?

          • Sgt. Dale

            A.G.
            I have to agree with Durango this time if he means as True PATRIOTS we stand up for our Republic and are willing to fight like a SEAL to regain our Republic, then yeas I agree.
            As you know you don’t want to PISS OFF a TRUE PATRIOT, because you will get a “BOOT IN YOUR ASS, IT IS THE AMERICAN WAY”.
            A.S.M.S.
            Sgt.

            • Kulafarmer

              I dont know about fighting like a seal,,,arf arf
              but perhaps a rabid wolf,,,,
              thats where Im at,, you will definitely kill me, eventually
              but before that

              • .02

                Hunting predators is good “practice.” Moving slowly, quietly and being able to sit like a wooden indian for an hour is a good thing to learn. Hitting moving targets is also a must.

                • Lumpy

                  I’ve done pretty well sitting like a wooden Pakistani. Just sayin…

              • Sgt. Dale

                KULA
                You know I met a NAVY SEAL (LOL)
                Whats worse is a MOTHER PROTECTING HER YOUNG!!!!!
                A 500 lbs griz female will kick the ass of 800 lbs male griz.
                Sgt.

              • Warchild Dammit!

                I imagine my self in really tough times more of a rabid weasel!I get myself in better long distance shape and practice different things perhaps will reach the point of rabid fisher cat!

              • Anonymous

                10 civilians, with 308’s, or the equivalent, with a scope, and just a little practice, and training , can turn a large police force into a bunch of sniveling cowards, watching their comrades dropping, while wearing full body armor. They (cops) signed on to do the killing, (with a huge advantage) not take the risks solders take at a fraction the pay. Governments know this, and worry that the snipers will turn on them, that’s why solders are disarmed at every opportunity, remember Fort Hood? Between the NSA’s power and the IRS’s revenge, how can Americans not be worried about the opinions they express?

            • Mark Smith

              The is much valuable information and discussion here:

              http://forum.snipershide.com

              While nothing can completely replace the one-on-one instruction of a good teacher, the inline video course at Sniper’s Hide Forums is a good place to start.

              BE AWARE—there is considerable military, LEO, and control freak presence there.

              One important addendum to Brandon’s otherwise excellent article—the most advanced reticles (e.g., the Horus H59 series and DTA AMR Advanced Milling Reticle) are miliradian (mil) based, NOT minute-of-angle (moa) based. Before you lock yourself into a moa system, you owe it to yourself to review the available mil/mil scope systems.

          • BJ

            Average Guy…..your almost right. He/she/it/bot is not a wack job unfortunately. DK knows exactly what a douche bag he/she/it is.

      • Kulafarmer

        You can keep your 22
        If we get to the point where we need to be contemplating shooting others i dont want to just poke holes and peck at enemies, i want to knock them flat.
        There is also the issue of ammo, there is NO 22 ammo here, so when its gone its gone, flip side i can buy 5.56 and 308, but can especially get components to load for years worth of shooting,

        • Be informed

          This is the type of article that you like to come back and reread over and over again, it is well done. The one issue that long range rifles are going to be of much more use that sniping human threats, at least you hope so, is for hunting. After SHTF, game is going to be far and few between. Someone use to the 300-500 yard range might have to go a lot longer distance. That one scarce elk, goat, deer, or whatever can mean a lot of food that you don’t have to dip into your supplies as much for.

          • .02

            The large game is going to be gone in a matter of months. The small stuff will be around for much longer, think birds and rodents. The 22 is going to be THE caliber to have and trade. Learn to trap, set snares, go buy regular rat traps and bait them with a bit of peanut butter, drill a hole in them and tie trap to trees and downfall. They work great, are easy to carry and could be a big difference. Prairie dogs, and the rock chucks here and wood chucks back east will make great table fare. They call them whistle pigs for a reason. Now, in Texas they have a bunch of wild hogs which could be a huge bonus. The 22 can take any animal inside 100 yards.

            • Any Mouse

              Forthe older hogs something a little stouter than a 22 is needed but should be fine four the younger ones.

              • Lumpy

                Selous killed an African Elephant with a .22 LR. Bullet placement is key…

        • Canadian Vet

          However, that .22 would be great for bagging small game with a minimum of noise. And the fundamentals you can learn with that little (and cheap to shoot) rifle will help you by leaps and bounds with your accuracy with larger guns. Also, it is a good way to warm up when you go to the range so you can get more effective practice with your more expensive ammunition.

          But when it comes to the two-legged sort of predators, .22 definitely isn’t the way to go. Unless it is the only gun you have in hand at that time.

          • Be informed

            Don’t forget either about those high powered air rifles can project a similar size pellet at 1200-1300 feet per second, which is the typical .22 LR velocity and they are even more quiet. These will end a rabbit will no problem. Even though this is very limited range, bow hunters can be as stealthy as anything out there, and the same goes true for the two legged threats.

            • DaisyK

              To: Be Informed,

              I am amazed at how many people think that they will be able to hunt for a living after the SHTF. How many deer, elk, moose, etc. does it take to feed one person for one year? I recently watched an episode of “Alaska-The Last Frontier” where a man has frozen a large amount of fish and has stored a lot of vegetables from his garden, but still needs the meat from 4 deer to feed himself and his pregnant wife for the winter.

              Here in Wyoming we have over a half million people and a pronghorn population of over a million. There are also a much smaller number of deer, elk, raccoons, and a very few big horn sheep, moose and bear. Not enough to feed the population for a year, even if we killed all of them. The major crops here are cattle, hay, and sugar beets. We also have a sugar factory. How long can we live on sugar and maybe one antelope per year? It will be worse in more populous states.

              Survivors will be competing with wolves and dogs for the available meat. Don’t forget what happened in 2008. People couldn’t afford to feed their animals and turned them out to “fend for themselves.” I think one of the things we will need weapons for, unfortunately, is to defend against packs of feral dogs that are used to getting their food from humans, have no fear of humans, and will attack and kill anyone who ventures out.

              • Any Mouse

                I saw that episode too. There are a few things I have a problem with as far as that show is concerned but that is another conversation.

                People that hunt are going to go after the easiest prey. Cattle are going to be excessively hunted, and may even suffer the same fate as the american bison.

                I don’t know if wild hogs have made it as far north as Wyoming yet but they are prolific breeders and populations are rapidly expanding in places they have gained a small foothold.

                • DaisyK

                  AnyMouse,

                  You are probably right. The cattle would go first. I didn’t even consider that we would have cattle to eat after the first few weeks because the ranchers probably wouldn’t be able to protect them from a hungry population. After the cattle are gone, so would the milk, cheese…. There would be a lot of waste, too. People would kill an animal or a bunch of animals and then not be able to eat the meat before it spoiled.

                  I haven’t heard of wild hogs in the area. What we have is a lot of crows. A LOT of crows. I have heard that they aren’t very good to eat, though.

                • durango kidd

                  Four words: “dexter cattle and wabbits”. 🙂

              • buttcrackofdoom

                @daisy ..that’s why i stock up on BBQ sauce, right now it’s 49 cents, because one of these days, we will be eating rabbits and squirrels and rats and…..dogs…they won’t be around long, once the SHHTF. like you said, ALL game will be wiped out in short order. better have the things that make ’em taste better!

                • JayJay

                  Kroger’s. 🙂

                • NoRegretVet

                  @Buttcrackofdoom

                  Your right….I ask Maggie a few weeks ago if she would or could ever eat a Possum or something like that….She said ” Hell, if I got hungry enough I probably would….As long as it had some BBQ Sauce on it !!! ”

                  So…we now have a dozen or so bottles of BBQ Sauce in the Pantry ……Those Possums better start wearing Camo !!!

              • Be informed

                @ Daisy K. It will all depend on just how many people will be left. A plague could wipe up 90% or higher of the population. The ratio of animals to people could be incredibly high. Don’t forget either about the small animals that provide meat. Insects actually have more protein and vitamin and mineral counts to them than most animals. Insects too have similar tastes to certain animals such as fish, beef, and of course tastes like chicken.

                • Kulafarmer

                  so true,,
                  That was a discussion I had with a friend here,, we have snails, millions of snails, are the same snail that they use to make escargots, one thing I am going to keep is a bunch of corn meal, it may not be good for eating after a few months but it will be fine for cleaning out the snails, you pick them up and put them in a box with a layer of the corn meal and they ingest it and it cleans them out so they are not green inside their gut,
                  Well be eating deep fried snail at some point if TSHTF i suspect,,, escargots and kale, its whats for dinner.
                  just doesnt have the same ring as beef its whats for dinner, but better than sucking rocks!

                • Be informed

                  @ Kulafarmer. Termites cooked in an oven have more nutrients in them than just about anything and taste kind of like a cross between roasted peanuts and roasted pistacio nuts. Grasshoppers don’t exactly have the best flavor to them, but cooked with some herbs they can be decent tasting and are all over the place in the summer. They can be dried for the winter and just about any source of meat can.

                • sixpack

                  “Insects too have similar tastes to certain animals such as fish, beef, and of course tastes like chicken.”

                  Well, BI, is this from your personal experience of eating insects and such, or are you just being sarcastic?

                • Be informed

                  @ sixpack. From occasionally trying them myself, crazy I know, and from a couple of survival books that give similar tastes to each different insect. Just makes sure always to cook any insect as for example grasshoppers are loaded with parasites, especially worm eggs. Insects are everywhere and cooked with some seasoning can add tremendous protein to your diet. People just have to get over the YUCK feeling. In a stew or soup no one would even know most of the time.

              • SonOfSam

                Maybe its because I’m new to firearms. Maybe its because I wasn’t brought up in hunting. Maybe its because I know that even if I trained the rest of my life, I won’t be near as good as most of the people on here at hunting and shooting. Or maybe its because I firmly believe that in the event of a true SHTF event, anything I manage to shoot might be taken from me by a larger group of hunters. Whatever the reason, I think that I will be trying to acquire my protein from growing quinoa, fava beans and the like… you know, food sources that can’t outrun me and won’t try to fight back. AND, the average looter will have no idea what the fuck it is, and therefore will be shot by my SKS when they’re trying to steal my gasoline.

                Just an admission that I’m not such a tough guy, nor am I equipped to be a hunter or sniper. I WILL however, damned well survive. My food sources may be a little more “hippie dippie” than most, but I will end the son of a bitch that so much as tries to steal a potato

                • Kulafarmer

                  The Quinoa is a good one,, havent had much luck with white quinoa but the red grows like a weed and reseeds excellent. Can grind it for a flour too and makes kinda cool tortillas,
                  I agree with you on getting protein from other sources, for me going hunting would mean leaving the farm, if things have come unglued i dont think i want to go anywhere,
                  For lots of us its not about bein a “tough guy”
                  For me at least i have always had and been around guns and enjoy tinkering with them and fooling around with making ammo, but in my garage right next to my gunsafe and loading bench are a couple sewing machines and fabric, so how tough could i really be?
                  Anyway, good post, ive been experimenting with oddball grains because its hard to grow wheat or oats, they mildew too easy and if TSHTF fungicides or gasoline for the sprayers may not be available, so stuff that can easily be grown, harvested and then dried are at the top of the list for alternate grains,
                  I grow kale, love kale chips, so working on a solar dryer that really works, so far its not really working, need to bring the stuff in then set it out again next day, when we get a cloudy day every other or every day its tough, so for now will hope the lights stay on, alternate plan was enough solar panels and batteries to give 15 watts 120v for 12 hours, but thats again money to do, money is scarce.

                • Jim in Va.

                  SOS…We all start somewhere. Practice a bit and you’ll get there. you might have better eyes,good breathing and a light trigger. I’ll trade you some deer meat for some of those beans.

                • NoRegretVet

                  @ SonOfSam

                  They may or may not know what they were looking at unless they were big fans of the movie ” The Silence of The Lambs!!!

                  ” That was a Fava bean joke !!!

                  Just remember:

                  ” Anyone will, and is capable of, doing ANYTHING given the right set of circumstances ”

                  So…don’t talk down your abilities…maybe just practice a little more….You will most likely surprise yourself…

                  PS…I just bet that you and your family are probably healthier than most with what you call your “Hippie Dippie Food “……I’ve had Hippie Dippie food…..I like it….

              • Tom T

                You also need to consider that about 30% of the population will perish in the first few months of real SHTF event due to the lack if insulin and other drugs that are keeping much of the population alive. There will also be a huge increase in suicides of those taking Prozac and other psych drugs that cause horrible mental problems when stopped cold turkey. Plus those in larger cities will start killing each other and starving because they don’t know how to hunt or dont own a viable means of defense. Those numbers you stated will change quickly. It may sound cold but it’s just inevitable that this will happen. I live way out in the country so I have the luxury of being far from urban centers and have chickens and goats to live on.

              • Jerry C

                We also need to remember that there are cultures around the world that include the ‘dog’ and ‘cat’ as a part of their protein intake.

                I also have to reflect on what ‘Selco’ discussed in the fact that after starvation sets in, it doesn’t take much for people to start contemplating ‘cannibalism’… personally, cats and dogs sound much better as an alternate food source than other human beings….

                • HisArmsWide

                  And less risky. Eating ‘long pig’ is known to cause CNS disorders.

                  Not to mention your food might both fight back just as heavily and be looking at you for their dinner plate.

                • JayJay

                  Viet Nam, 1970-1972.

                • Smokey

                  My new sweetheart kitty doesn’t have a name yet, folks ask me why not, I say, ‘It’s just a meat cat’.

                  The looks on their faces is priceless.

                • NoRegretVet

                  @ Jerry C

                  On my ” All Expenses Paid ” vacation to Southeast Asia ….I knowingly ate all kinds of weird stuff..dog, cat etc…And while I lived in the Phillipines I ate a lot of Grilled Monkey Meat..it was really good….So….Monkey Meat..Dog…cat….various wild birds…grasshoppers…some sort of huge grub worm on a bet one night… taste like crunchy chicken flavored yogurt….stuff from the ocean I could not recognize…..Wild vegetation ( Some I would not recommend it you care for your brain cells !!!) Wait I think I was in Mexico when that happened…anyway…As you Said…Different Cultures….different attitudes towards food sources….I am still alive !!! But I have not been able to remember my middle name since 1970 !!!

                  You get hungry….You will most likely eat most anything.

              • Anonymous

                Ya nice show, family seems nice and I gather there homestead has been in the family since the 40’s. However as I recall the family is related to the singer Jewel Kilcher, don’t think there going to stave!

                I agree keep prepping there is not enough game to feed the masses, things would get scarce real fast once the two legged animals leave the citys!!!

                • sixpack

                  There’s more game than you might think to go around, once you remove all of those “masses” who couldn’t catch, kill or prepare an animal if it jumped up on their plate.

                • Shi thead

                  I love cats, but I can’t eat a whole one.

              • George Zimmerman

                One of the most dangerous things about wolf hybrids is said to be that that they have no instinctual fear of man. During the 80s, there was some ass breeding these things a few blocks from my friend’s house in a city of 50K.

                • gatheringbird

                  I used to own a wolf hybrid, best pet I ever had. I completely trusted it with my 2 year old son. Kept a lot of people from getting out of their cars just because of her looks.

              • NoRegretVet

                @ DaisyK

                Nice post….And you are correct.

                I was watching something on Utube and one of the Game Wardens from Virginia/West Virginia stated that according to their predictions that when the SHTF that ALL the medium to larger game would be completely hunted out within 6 months !!! If not sooner because of outsiders coming in when their game vanished….He also mentioned that there would be a problem with wild dogs and other animals trying to forge for food. I really don’t think some people understand how the wildlife system works.

                It made me wonder just how long the fish …fresh & Saltwater would last ? No more Fish Filet Specials at Burger King !!!

                • sixpack

                  “It made me wonder just how long the fish …fresh & Saltwater would last ? No more Fish Filet Specials at Burger King !!!”

                  I don’t think a thousand people lined up on the beach with a fishing pole in their hands, could catch as many fish as one fishing boat with a net. People eat thousands of tons of fish right now, every day. The only difference is, in SHTF it will be harder to catch with 2-3 people in a row boat with zebcos…

            • gun

              .177 cal pellet 9 grains. .22 cal pellet 15 grains 20ftlbs energy. squirel, quail. baby rabbit. 22lr 40 grains @ 1100fps 104 ft lbs energy. 30 grain 1700 fps 204 ftlbs energy…wikipedia.No where near a 22lr in energy. There is always the exception for 1000’s$$$

              • Kulafarmer

                223 remington Sierra game king, 65 grain, 2700FPS 1175 FT LBS

          • Hammerun

            Here’s one a PSL 54c, 7.62x54r with a LPS 4×8 tips2 glass. Refitted with Black Horse Arsenal furniture. Cheap to shoot too. 880 rounds of 147 grn steel core are around $230.00 to the door. It’ll bang holes straight thru half inch steel plate at 250 meters and would be difficult to get away from at 800. I ain’t that good much past that. A friend of ours is a “shooter” ( been in the sand box four times) says his advantage shot was 700+. He says for the money it’s tough to beat that PSL.

          • Average Guy

            Canadian Vet wrote, “(and cheap to shoot) [.22] rifle”

            Uh, maybe in Brunswick or someplace like that in Canada it’s cheap, but down here in the unitedstate, it’s gotten to be quite expensive and quite hard to find.

            There are many people who would advise that a newbie get a .22 to learn,… I’m not so sure that’s good advise anymore these days. Maybe things will change someday, but right now, there’s a sign with a great big red slash across it collecting dust in my hardware store which says, “No .22”

            The ‘No’ does not mean number.

            YMMV?

            Might as well get a pellet gun? But I noticed they have some .223 in WalMart.

            Anyway, Long Live the free range children! …And the adults, too.

            • Canadian Vet

              Well, ammo prices went up here too, make no mistake, but .22 is still cheaper to shoot than centre fire any day of the week.

              And, giving BI all due credit, I never even considered the high-powered air rifles as an option for working on fundamentals and small game. In fact I’ll be considering one when we introduce our third youngest to guns and shooting.

              And really, I wouldn’t want to ruin shooting for my daughter by giving her a centre fire rifle to shoot for her first time. And if you can be accurate at 100m with a .22, it won’t be much if a stretch to be accurate at 2-300m with a .223 or .308, and from there you can just keep stretching the range.

              • Average Guy

                Canadian Vet says, “Well, ammo prices went up here too, make no mistake, but .22 is still cheaper to shoot than centre fire any day of the week.”

                Maybe you didn’t notice the significance of the words I wrote?

                Let me say this:

                There Is Just About – NO – .22 To Be Had In This unitedstate!

                Let that sink in.

                Not in Oklahoma.

                Not in Virginia.

                And very very little in Iowa.

                The ammo ain’t on the shelves.

                They’ve been stripped clean. And they stay that way.

                From sea to dominated sea.

                I understand things are different in Canada.

                It’s just not that way here in the unitedstate right now.

                • Warchild Dammit!

                  Average,there is .22 ammo all over the net,high priced in comparison to a few years back,yes,available,yes,Gander mountain sell .22 LR yesterday at a cost of .06 a round yes(sold out now,yes),there is .22 available to those who want and need it and with a sharp eye and leg work at a fair price,stop with the unavailable nonsense!

                • Jim in Va.

                  Average guy..I’m in northern Va. there is plenty of .22 ammo here, its just how much are you willing to pay? Stay away from Walmart(cheapest) cuz there are people waiting for the clerks to put it on the shelf. Its going for 10 bucks for a box of 50,still cheaper than most calibers. The good ole days are gone with everybody hoarding ammo,expecting another Sandy Hook shooting.

                • embers

                  I haven’t seen ANY in Iowa since before the FF Sandy Hook

            • .02

              I really like the 17 hmr. It is a really hard hitting little caliber good out to 200+ yards. I would have no problem shooting a deer or pig out to 150 as they are so accurate you can pick what hair you want to shoot. Ammo is available. The Savage is a good inexpensive tack driver. Put a good variable 3 x 12 on it and you are looking at dandy shtf caliber.

              • .02

                One more thing..look for the hollow point ammo as the vmax blows things up. I killed 2 coyotes with the 20 grain xtp and they were both bang flops.

              • JayJay

                I was just curious, so HMR..is Hornady Magnum Rimfire.
                Dismissed.

            • NoRegretVet

              @ Average Guy

              I had started talking to all my friends about 3 years ago…I said it will all be a “Trickle Down ” effect….It will finally get to the point where you “Will Not ” be able to find 22LR ….Of course they ask me what I was smoking !!! Now they are constantly calling me …imagine that !!!

              Here is the reality….I ordered some fed 525 boxes from Cabelas…said they were in stock….got the email…backordered…..I got them 2 days ago…Yea !!!

              Oh….I forgot to tell you….I placed that order 12/31/2012 !!! It took me 1 year and 1 month to get them ……That should tell some folks something about what I was trying to say 3 years ago !!!

              My next prediction: SLINGSHOTS !!!

              Even if you ran out of rocks…..Dog Turds would do….I got a couple of Big Ole Doggies….Ammo forever !!!

          • Kulafarmer

            yes and no,,
            in my AO there is no “small game”
            the plinker is easy to shoot, but the necessary learned mantra of reaquiring your target after a shot, my REPR has about 10 times the felt recoil of a 10-22
            the trigger on that rifle is also much smoother and lighter than any off the shelf 10-22 the weight of the rifle is also considerably more, so training witha 22 may well be sorta kinda maybe close to training with my preferred weapon, but not really
            the only game around here are wild hogs, axis deer, and wild goats, I would only try to kill any of them if I was hunting with dogs,
            legally by our local laws I cant use a 22 to hunt, rifle or handgun and ammo combination must generate a force of no less than 1200 foot pounds at the muzzle, not speed, but kinetic energy, no 22 will do that, even if were not worried about legality and local ordinance regarding hunting, being proficient with a 22 will in no way transmit to being proficient with a 308 or a 300 win mag,
            the 22 is a good tool, but it is not necessarily adapted to all situations. If it was why does the military and police train with their duty weapons?
            Just my honest opinion,
            if Im going to be using a 308, I need to train with that 308, just as if you are going to carry a 45ACP 1911 as a side arm, you most likely shouldnt be training with a 1911 22LR,, they are in no way alike!

            • Kulafarmer

              correction

              the only game around here are wild hogs, axis deer, and wild goats, I would only try to kill any of them WITH A 22 if I was hunting with dogs,
              legally by our local laws I cant use a 22 to hunt,

              • RandomTangent1957

                Axis Deer …? That’s about the tastiest deer I have ever harvested. If you ever need someone to help thin the herd…just let me know !
                Standing by in
                Montgomery County Texas

            • George Zimmerman

              Watch out for this chat room sniper.

              • Kulafarmer

                Dont remember ANYWHERE in my posts that i said anything about wanting to or being a sniper,,, you must have the wrong guy, sorta like Trayvon,

      • Mountain Trekker

        This seems to be the right article for this question. I have a M1A National Match, have yet to shoot it. What scope would you experts recommend, I would even take comments from not so experts. This would be used for medium to long range. Trekker Out.

        • Kulafarmer

          Comes down to how much can you spend,,,

          • Mountain Trekker

            Kula I’m thinking in the 200 to 500 dollar range. Interested in shooting 600 to 700 yds. in Wyoming any yardage is possible but a man has to know his limitations. I would love to have a 50BMG but such is life. Trekker Out. Si vis pacem, para bellum!

            • Kulafarmer

              Go for a Nikon Prostaff or Prostaff 5,
              Decent optic for the price with a proven track record,
              I have one on my 308 and love it, it also didnt break the bank to put it in my collection,
              Have bought Simmons too but the quality has gone way down hill over the last few years
              Dont waste your cash on BSA or some of those other cheapo brands either,
              Vortex also has a few low end optics that are decent as well.

              • BB Stacker

                Good call. Nikon and Burris are a couple of my favorite scopes as well. Just got into Vortex scopes and they are rapidly becoming my favorites. The Viper HST’s can be had for just over $500.

                Mountain Trekker: I also have a scoped 22 inch M1A that is a fine shooter, just under 1 MOA on average with handloads. Not all M1A scope mounts are created equal. Get the best mount you can afford, if you haven’t already. They make all the difference in my experience.

              • .02

                If you are going cheap, look at the Mueller line. The 4 x 14 APV is a hellova scope.

            • Mountain Trekker

              Thanks to All! I got a lot of good info on this comment. First let me say, I will not buy anything from (Nikon) I bought one of their cameras and it took excellent pictures, but as soon as I started using it the shutter over the lens started scratching the lens, I sent it in and told them the problem and they said this was not covered and charged me $130 for the repair, and as soon as I started using it again same problem, I have called 2 or 3 times and keep getting a run around, so NO NIKON! And now as for scopes, no I won’t put a fifty dollar scope on my M1A, but I have a weaver 4X that I bought many years ago on my 270 that will cut a 3 shot cloverleaf off of a rest at 100 yards, so price ain’t always what counts. But I do know that you get what you pay for, and you should be able to get a decent scope for $500. Again Thanks to all for your Info. Trekker Out. Free Men Own Guns, Slaves Don’t!

              • BJ

                What about glass for a Savage 10 FCP SR .308?
                New to long range shooting, but hope to acquire skill to go 800-1000 yards. Spent $1200 a year ago and was told I should spend same to double on glass…I am ok with that. I like the idea of the Shepard because it does the long range work for ya. I think a Burris does that too…….but I really need to learn the right way, plus batteries might not always be available…LoL

                Recommendations?

                p.s. I would like to be able to add to this scope in future i.e night vision etc.

                • Sgt. Dale

                  BJ
                  Nikon makes a scope with a built in Bullet Drop Comp. Go with the one you want there are several to choose from.
                  Batteries will be in short form. So I would look into something without batteries. Shepard ,Vortex, Burris, Springfield. There are lot of great scopes.
                  Sgt.

        • Faith of the fallen

          I’m a fan of vortex optics as a middle of the road long range scope. A vortex viper will start around $500 ish and is very good glass. Don’t go cheap on optics or you will regret it. I’m a firm believer of buy once cry once.

        • Ramadiron

          Mark 4 is what I used when I was in but anything by nightforce i hear is real good

        • NoRegretVet

          @ Mountain Trekker….

          Nice Rifle !!!….CHECK OUT ” VORTEX ”

          The info I am talking about is for us folks who just cannot afford those $2K scopes !!! I am talking about affordable….well worth the money scopes …$150 and up!!! So don’t thumbs me down because I didn’t advise someone to buy a Nightforce !!!

          I like the Vortex Guys….Beautiful glass…extremely well made…….and they carry a “Lifetime Warranty !!! ” When you call them…you feel like you call your own house !!! (Well maybe that is not a good example !!! ) Anyway…. All the guys there are great…extremely helpful….and to top it off the owner is a Vietnam Vet….Support Your Veterans

          You CANNOT beat their customer service !!!

          They have some high dollar (And Worth it !! ) scopes … but they have some extremely nice scopes in the $150.00 and up (Always check for sales ) range….

          I own several:

          Diamond Back
          Viper
          Crossfire II…..Now this scope really surprised me…and the guys said it would….WELL WELL WELL worth the $$$…..

          It will come down to your needs….usage….and after the Great Sniper Post…..Do you understand ROE ” Rules of Engagement ? “

          • Kulafarmer

            Hey Vet,,,
            Fill us in on ROE,,
            Probly a lot of us curious, not sure it will apply to us though, but still good to know

            • NoRegretVet

              @ Kulafarmer….

              It boils down to common sense…..If this is a question and not sarcasm.

              Question for everyone….How long does a “Sniper” remain in the same location/Position/Point after firing off a round or rounds before his position/location…though maybe not visual…is detected/Or moves to acquire another Vantage location ? Have you considered that who you are firiing at might just have a bit more training than yourself !!!

              1) How many men or women do you have in your group that can honestly take out a target at the distances you guys are talking about….Could you ” Under Stress”….I have never witnessed a “Paper Target” return fire….Reality is just a tad different. Do you really/truthfully know exactly whom you are firing at ? What if it turned out to be someone you knew….that was just trying to make it to you for safety.

              2) Or….are you the “Lone Wolf” guy…..

              3) How do you know if “They” don’t already have some intel on “Your ” location ? More thought goes into being prepared to acquire and fire than the firing……

              4) The most likely answer to these statements are not going to be thought out very well…Unless you studied under ” Carlos ” back in the day…..

              5) Have you ever walked away from a fight …not because you were afraid….but it just made more ” Logical Sense” at that point in time….Have you ever taken another mans life ? Have you ever been in a CQC (Close Quarter Combat) situation ? If “No” to the above….Do you feel like you could just camo up and blow someones head off at a 1000 yds ?

              6) Thinking about it after watching the movie “The Shooter ” is going to be just a little different than the reality of “Engaging “.

              7) So….I ask you this…..You see a target 700 yards away ….not headed in your direction….is he alone….got 2 others….20 others….etc….Why at that point would you “Feel” like you needed to take him out ? Or would you let him pass and not draw attention to yourself…your area….your family ?

              8) Thinking about this will allow you to establish exactly what “You” feel like “Your” Rules of Engagement will and should most likely be….Everything can and will change….and Damn quick !!!

              Personally….I could if I had to…but I feel that around 500 yds and headed your direction will give you more of a sense of when to “Engage” or not.

              And I am sure you already realize that most combat situations take place at around 100 yds or less and most around 50 yds……

              I personally think that more innocent people will be killed at some of the longer ranges because of lack of training and thought than there will need to be……

              So I ask you….considering your family and loved ones….When do you think you should just start firing away….what will be your “ROE” ?

              Unless I have missed something entirely….and most of you guys a “Company” or men….I just may have to refer back to ” Ron White “.

              Be Safe

              You Can Ignore Reality
              But you cannot ignore the consequences
              Of Ignoring Reality

              Ayn Rand

              • Kulafarmer

                Nope, no sarcasm, am always curious for more info,,
                Thanks,
                Some of us are just normal folk who have been playin with guns for years and are getting into new territory.

              • NoRegretVet

                My last statement is when my fingers went tarded !!!

                I had meant to say “Unless most of you guys have a “Company” of men in your group….I just may have to refer back to ” Ron White “…….

                Here is a good exercise….

                Camo up….Ghillie suit and all….now take your rifle/scope of preference…All your gear loaded out for long range..No spotter…You are solo on this one….what ever amount of ammo you decide you need to hump with you…..Now go out into your particular terrain…hilly…woods….thick brush…snow…heat etc……Get in position….get set up….now get yo ass up and Run For Your Life !!! Run….gotta get out of the situation….Hump your self…gear…..weapon….and a heart beating like a race horse and Run For Your Life for at least a mile……

                Being Honest to yourself and God…..What do you think the outcome could possibly be ?

                Be Safe

                • NoRegretVet

                  @Kulafarmer

                  Think I clicked off my last post and lost it…

                  What I think I was saying was what The guy “Faith of the Fallen” posted is the Gospel….My point about how much I love the Vortex scopes is because most folks can afford one of their scopes….and they make some beautiful scopes for the money….

                  But when you ask 10 people their opinion on this topic you are going to get 12 different schools of thought !!!

                  I run anywhere from an old early 80’s Marlin 336 30-30 (I was Raised in the South) up to several very high end Rifles…American and German….There rifles and scopes out there that are affordable..New and Used….and being able to practice to get to know your weapon is the game changer.

                  Now the Truth …..I was very Blessed….All my higher end rifles were passed on to me from a relative with money !!! God rest his soul and his taste in weapons/scopes !!!I could NEVER have been able to afford them on my own……

                  Lastly….I will totally agree with “Faith of The Fallen”….once you have benched up or laid down with something like the .338 Lapua or a German Sauer with a lot of scope on it…it is like the difference between a Fine Single Malt Scotch and something like ” Up Your Kilts Scotch !!! ” As I said I was Blessed and now own several……

                  Be Safe…

                  PS…..My Uncle also had sign in “His” private little house out back that said ” God, when I leave this earth…Please don’t allow My Wife to sell my Rifles for what I told her I paid for them !!! ” I miss him ……

                • Kulafarmer

                  @No Regret Vet,
                  Agree on the Vortex optics 100%
                  I love em, if i had the money thats all i would own, unfortunately i dont gots the dough! Such is life, am there though, next purchase is going to be optics, dont need any more than the few guns i own, but have seen the benefit of real clear optics.

              • Kulafarmer

                Honestly i hope i NEVER have to use my guns for anything other than target practice or hunting,
                Would rather everything just go with the flow and work out but there is always that outside chance, like stuff Selco talks about, know another guy who ended up in the middle of that same mess and it scared the crap out of me to hear his account of it, anything that makes a 40something 6’4″ 240# guy cry just talking about it must have been horrendous,
                With the grace of God none of us will ever have to walk that.

                • Night Breaker

                  No regret vet ,
                  100 percent buddy.
                  Looks like you have walked the walk.
                  This game is of the serious kind , the one thing you left out , when you drop those mildots on your target , unlike the regular rifleman seeing only silhouette lined up with your sights., you actually look your target in the face when you squeeze that trigger and see the results up close and Personel.

                  This requires a lot of mental conditioning to feel nothing but the recoil of your rifle.
                  95 % of target acqisition and Reconassianse (sniping) is FIELD CRAFT the remaining is 5% marksmanship.

                  Being able to haul ass after making the shot is an understatement you MUST plan your infil and exfil out using your terrain , time , target and taking weather into account . You must have the ability to move like a ghost in the woods and rapidly exfiltrate without leaving sign. All operations are matistically planned with range cards developed on site by observation of the AO.

                  I earned my “Sniper Tab” in class in 1988 at Quantico we were only the 3rd class , USMC started loosely reconstituting sniping units ( MOS 8541) in 1987 .

                  I served in force recon and was deployed to Grenada ion October 25, 1983 as a squad designated marksman I think the term used then was precision rifleman.
                  First deployment as target acqisition and Reconassianse was Panama in 1989
                  Last deployment Desert shield / Desert Storm 1991, was in one of the recon units cut off in KAFJI similar situation to what happened in the movie depicted in lone survivor , we did not have half the casualities but we were cut off from our support elements for a week. Fighting was house to house.

                  Most people see the description of sniping from movies and television the real thing is not even close you must have a patience made of steel and be willing to remain stationary for long periods of time suffering various hardships to make the shot.

                  As a basic introduction the article was ok , if you seriously want to get a better understanding I recommend the books by John plaster ” the ultimate sniper” as a starting point.

                  The duty of a sniper is to disrupt and demoralize the enemy as a secondary resource , Reconassianse is the main operational objective , to gather accurate intelligence for later use .
                  Snipers are a force multiplier in this respect in the modern battles space.

                  Without sulfur and saltpeter there can be no freedom.
                  German proverb

                  One shot, one kill
                  motto of the marine sniper

                  RESIST

                  III%

                  Semper Fi 8541

                • NoRegretVet

                  @ Kulafarmer

                  If you don’t already know…OpticsPlanet is a Vortex dealer and if you call the sales dept they will oft times work with you on the prices….That is the reason I bought the Crossfire II (Vortex truly put a lot of thought into the redesigning of this scope) I had heard horrible stories about the Crossfire series….I called Vortex and talked with them….It was for my Nephew so I ordered one….It shocked me !!!

                  Anyway…Now for 1 of the best tricks !!!

                  I think I got either 15 or 20% off their retail which was the lowest on the internet already…

                  Then an ad poppped up for ” Bill Me Later”….I think they gave me $20.00 to try them and also give you up to 6 months to pay NO INTEREST if paid off before time is up…PLUS FREE SHIPPING !!!

                  I thought what’s next …A FREE SET OF TIRES !!!

                  Anyway…work the deal if you need one !!!

                • NoRegretVet

                  @ Kulafarmer

                  Most combat veterans don’t talk much about it…Maybe except to other Veterans or People who they feel close enough too to intrust their inner most scares…Because it is not the scares you can visually see that are the deepest or worse….And no…I wish that no one would EVER had to walk that path.

                  Oh yea…in reference to the post I did on how I got a deal on the Vortex scope I got for my Nephew for CHRISTmas…It was a Crossfire II 4-12 x 44….and for the money (What I wound up paying) that is 1 SSSAAAAWWWEEEEEETTTTT scope !!!

                  Be Safe

                • D

                  Night Breaker is a lying Imposter! I was in 2nd Force during Grenada and he wasn’t part of our elite unit, nor did we conduct any operations on Grenada. My previous unit was with Bn STA so I obviously was qualified as a Marine Sniper. Nor am I aware of this guys operations in Panama as I was also serving with Special Forces during Just Cause. I do thank those of you who provided constructive suggestions to the article. It’s just as apparent to experts as to whom really knows their stuff as it is to certain folks attempting Stolen Valor! During hard times beware of people like this who would obviously take advantage of you just as easily as they seek false glory. D

        • Shootit

          MT, This would be the bottom line scope I would consider.

          midwayusa com/product/817284/leupold-rifleman-rifle-scope-4-12x-40mm-wide-duplex-reticle-matte

          If you are going to attempt 6-700 yard shots you will want at least 9x on a scope. Pick the reticle that is to your liking. From my 30 plus years experience with scopes having Leupold printed on the side have never let me down.

          This would be my choice.

          http://www.midwayusa.com/product/130994/leupold-vx-3-rifle-scope-35-10x-40mm-duplex-reticle-matte

          • Mountain Trekker

            Shootit I have some Leupold scopes and a pair of their Bino’s,love Leupold products, just thought I would check out some other scopes. You can get a lot of good info on this site from people with hands on experience that have no connection with the product. Trekker Out.

            • Shootit

              Zeiss and a couple others make better scopes. Just haven’t ever dropped a dime on them. Besides they would not fall into your stated budget. Have fun with 600+ yards. I can handle 500 with confirmed deer at 400. My range maxes at 500. Never knowingly tried anything farther.

              Nikon, Pentax, Burris also make good scopes. I have a Nikon on my BP. Shot a deer at 180 yards with it.

          • PA farmer

            Question;
            Have a Stalker 223Rem, Stainless steel Bergara barrel,made in spain. Brand new out of the box, is it Possible to have did some thing too the Riflings in the barrel..My brother said he had a nice scope for it, and he would even put it on for me, when he put the bore Site in it, it didnt want to come back out, and if that wasnt enough he did it again with the same Ugly results.Had these. Spring loaded Metal feet on it. It shoots all over the place, not Consistent. put that scope on another gun, sited right in. Bought a prostaff 2, 4-12×40, weighted the ammo, still onable to get it dailed in, fedup!!!

            • Sgt. Dale

              PA:
              Ok try different ammo
              ” breaking it in. Shot 1 clean, do this 3 times. Then shot 3 rds and clean the do that 3 times.
              The shot 5 times, and clean do this 3 times.
              Ammo start with 50 Gr. and work up to the 70 gr. bullet.
              Try different types of ammo companies.
              If that doesn’t work SEND IT BACK WITH A LETTEER TELLING THEM WHAT IS WRONG. Save your targets and the info on your ammo.
              A.S.M.S
              Sgt.

              • PA farmer

                Ok Thank Sgt, I’ll try that, after reading more of the comments seem’s matching the ammo too the gun seem’s more importent then I knew. I think it was you that said some guns dont like some kinds of ammo.I was Using Remington 55grain, have moved to armageddon by Nosler 55grain H/P, and have weighed them to make shore they’er all the same weight. Its vary Disappointing this was my dream varmint gun..and it looks like I need to Practice,Practice,Practice..

                • gun

                  Matching the weight of the bullet and coefficient with the rifling TWIST is important. 1-14 will not stabilize a long boat tail military bullet very good at long range. you would need a varmit bullet. A 1-12 twist would be better for the 55-62 grain military style bullet. a 1-10 twist is usually found on guns such as the mini 14 with a short barrel. I would be trying out some 40-50 grain varmit rounds. Also before WW2, the barrels were .223 groove diameter( like the 22 remington Jet), Not the .224 used nowadays.

                • PA farmer

                  Gun, I will be looking into your information, I can see this is gona be diffent than putting down a deeror fox, Coyote. Trying to hit a groundhog at 100-200 yrds there is gona have to be more Accuracy. I went on the site snipwrshide.com, and I can see I might have a Laundry list of Problems going on. one being gun Cheek position, I might need to adjust my scope.I’m glad this Article has come up it has me thinking a lot more about what wrong. never thought it could be bain Surgery. I’ve always been aroud guns with the farm and all, but there might be a lot of people out there that might need to get more Familiar with their Rifles.

        • Sgt. Dale

          M.T.
          I have one and it is my favorite weapon.
          I qualified with it when I took the sniper class from the FBI. I was #2, got beat out by a guy shooting a Rem 700 in a 22-250. Lost to him by 1 point. (he was told by the guys at the camp that the 22-250 was not suitable for sniper work. Because that was the rifle the Chief sent to use they allowed it.)
          You will find with practice you can shoot this rifle at 500 yards all day and hit center mass 9, and 10 ring all day. You will also find you can get off multiple rounds rather fast, a lot faster the a bolt.
          If TSHTF you can go from snipping to a combat rifle when you use the 20 mags with the rifle.
          Now the set up.
          I recommend using Springfield Armory 3rd Gen scope mount or if they have a newer one. Scope is your call. Most of us Preppers are on a tight budget, so I went with the Nikon BDC scope. You can pick which one you want. I like the 3x9x40’s myself, but you can go larger if you want. There are a lot of really good scopes out there. That is if you want to spend the money for it. Just remember we are snipping with these rifles not shooting national match. We just need to put a slug into center mas and not to try and put two bullets in the same hole. (you are not going to get that chance if you are sniping.)
          What kid of AMMO are you going to use?
          A.S.M.S.
          Sgt.

          • Kulafarmer

            Sarge,,,
            did you check out the Nikon site for the down low on the BDC for your specific ammo and rifle?
            they also have an app for smart phones if you have one, or your Ipod, if you have one of those,,,
            real helpful, will give you pretty exact ballistics related to the BDC rings based on your projectile, and velocity. Worth a look if you havent already.

            • Sgt. Dale

              Kula;
              Yes I did If I remember right the Nikon is set for the slug to be going around 2600 fps. out of my 308, Set it at 100 yards and you good to go. This is on my short bull barrels and my M1A.
              On my 300 Win Mag set it at 200 yards and you are ready to go, at around 3000 fps.
              The above is what I did and it works great.
              Man I hate going to the range and putting slugs down range. NOT!!!!
              A.S.M.S
              Sgt.

              • Shi thead

                Our adversaries in Viet Nam did quite well with pretty crude sniper rifles.

        • .02

          Zeiss.

      • Wilson

        I struggle with many of this guys articles. And now this. He’s talking two grand or more. Another very believable comment below by Faith of the Fallen talks of $5K. I’m glad some folks can afford to do this.
        Now then, how did my dad take a A3, or an A3-03, chambered in .30-06, and make 600 yard shots? NO scope, no weather station, no spotter, no guys at the Kalispel gun club, or any other gun club…., well you get the idea. Practice, nothing else. A standard Springfield, iron sights, not sporterized crap, floated barrel, etc. and etc. Buy all of the crutches, gadgets, and accessories you want, but nothing makes up for a lack of practice and knowing your rifle.

        • Jasmine

          I’m thinking your dad’s generation took care of Hitler and Tojo with a Springfield or a Garrand.

          • Tucker

            Er, uh, might I ask Jasmine a quick question?

            Are you unaware as to the identity of the #1 group of totalitarian sleaze bags who have been behind literally every single effort to impose gun control, gun bans, gun registrations, and gun confiscation upon Americans?

            Hint: It just so happens to be the same tribe of ethnics who mean old Hitler was battling and who he wanted to kick out of Germany and out of every other White European nation.

            http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/zionist-jews-are-at-the-forefront-of-advancing-gun-control-in-the-united-states/43949#more-43949

            Incidentally, the last time this gang of totalitarian SOBs seized absolute control of a White European nation – Russia, 1917 – they succeeded in disarming the population, and then proceeded to mass murder somewhere in excess of 66 million of them, if you respect Alexander Solzhenitisyn’s best estimates.

            Which I do. So, perhaps it might be time to rethink your braggadocios attitude with regards to the USA and the UK getting into bed with the same USSR who committed those mass slaughters and then ganging up to defeat the one guy in the last 100 years who tried his best to free his people from the tyranny of this tribe?

            Hindsight, as they say, is supposed to be 20-20.

            Right?

            • La Raza

              What do you get when you squeeze a synagogue?

              Jeeews

            • JustSayin

              @ Tucker

              I am a little confused (Seriously) Who is the only guy in the last 100 years who tried his best to free his people from the tyranny ?

              I can’t seem to come up with a name here. Help me understand.

          • Mark Smith

            If you cannot afford the best training and equipment, certainly make do as best you can.

            And, whatever you have, practice, practice, practice. The best equipment will do you no good without training and practice.

            Brandon makes a key point that very few have verbalized—the elite who work to depopulate the masses are VERY frightened of being themselves “depopulated” by competent long-range and extreme-long-range (“XLR,” about a mile or more!) riflemen.

            • BJ

              Any suggestions on finding training? Of course finding a guy to meet personally who has walked the walk would be best, but that’s probably a pipe dream.

              • Mark Smith

                Look for an active Precision Tactical Rifle match at a range near you. Be friendly, ask questions, be appreciative, and learn.

                • BJ

                  Thanks Mark

          • Jim in Va.

            It was all them young guys with excellent eye sight and excellent weapons.

        • Average Guy

          Wilson, I think you just answered Mountain Trekker’s question.

          …Unless of course, as Kulafarmer alluded to, he has lots of extra money. Then I’d go with the uber-scope.

          However; the bottom line is, as Wilson wrote, “Practice, nothing else.”

          Your families, those you care about, depend upon it.

          There’s no ‘maybe’ at this point.

          • Kulafarmer

            One big problem with the newer rifles is they dont come with iron sights,,,
            Sorta sucks, but a decent savage with a stainless action and barrel and composit stock has no sights at all, yea you can get some blued rifles but then you deal with corrosion etc,,,

            • BB Stacker

              Kula:

              I have several savage rifles and they are my favorites. I just purchased a Savage model 11 “hog hunter” in .308 a couple weeks ago. Paid about $440 for it. It comes with iron sights, 20 inch medium contour barrel and a threaded muzzle. Plus the awesome accutrigger. Shot the first string for accuracy last weekend. Best group was .650″ with 168 grain matchkings. All were under 1 inch, even with a 15 MPH crosswind (100 yards). That was with 45.6 grains of Varget, Fed Large rifle match primers. COL is 2.805 (still playing with the seating depth for this particular rifle) My chrono averaged 2705 FPS with this load. Shot some steel at 400 yards, no problem hitting 10 inch plates.

              The stock sucks though. Too much flex for me. Will be replacing it soon. Got a 4-16 power Vortex scope on it right now. So far a great rifle. Even with scope and stock upgrades it will still be a sub $1000 precision rig.

              • Kulafarmer

                Nice rifles, especially for the money, way good deal,
                Sounds like i need to up the velocity on my loads,
                Im running just over 2500 average, accuracy has been OK, in the 1″ range most days, but is mostly me, need to get a lead sled and a good chronograph and work on it a bit more,
                Switching over to Vithavouri N140 for the 175g SMKs
                Been loading varget for 180g game kings, but am too low on the velocity, only around 2300 and thus far groups are around 1- 1.25 inch, agan could be and most likely is me and not the gun or ammo.

        • lastmanstanding

          Go to snipercentral.com

          Awesome site for all.

          “don’t go down without one helluva fight”

        • Hillbilly in Ok.

          I have a 30/06 semi auto Ruger 7400 with Ncstar mark III scope. Shoots a 12″ group at 1000 yards. Total cost less than $750. You can do it for cheep if you try.

          • Sgt. Dale

            Hill
            YOu mean a Remington 7400?
            Sgt.

            • Hillbilly in Ok.

              Ya my bad typing in a hurry, some times my fingers work faster than my brain. but the price paid was right around $730 with harris bipod. Only has a 4 round mag but it is detachable and I have more than 1. Works well for poking holes in paper.

              • Louis XIV

                With the thoughts that I’d be thinking I could be another Lincoln if I only had a brain!

            • Hillbilly

              Scope is a 4-16×50 with range finder optic and after reading some of the above feel the need to say paper is all I’ve ever shot at so not a sniper but do consider myself a shooter.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Wilson
          This was and is still the best, most accurate Military bolt action rifle in the world. I can tell you if you get one that the barrel is not shot out and you practice with it you to can make this kind of a shot with this rifle. I know I have two of them and love shooting them. I should say one, my wife took one away from me, and she said this one is MINE! (God I love this girl!)
          A.S.M.S
          Sgt.

        • .02

          Takes me back to watching my dad shoot his 270 Winchester. That guy killed so many deer @ unbelievable rang with open sights. He was from the Snake River breaks area and if you have ever been down there you will understand that most shooting at critters are across canyons, desert type terrain, etc. He was the example of “fear the man with one rifle” as that is the only gun he had for big game his entire life. He bought it in 1943 and I witnessed him shoot a small doe deer that had to have been 650 yards away. (before the days of range finders) The Winchester had the V and bead sights that makes for excellent accuracy. My older brother has that gun now and it still shoots bug holes like the day my dad bought it. If you are looking for open sights, peeps are good but I think the V with the front (small) bead is the best.

        • Wyoming hunter

          Best post on this subject. Iron sights, as issued on the 03A3 and the M1 Garand. Best sights ever put on a rifle and the best rifle ever made, the M1 Garand. Both in 30-06. You are right, Wilson, practice, don’t flinch.
          Simo Hayha used open sights on his issue Mosin-Nagant. His fight was in the heavy forests, deep snow of Finland. His shots were close.

      • JayJay

        Nightly, I pray for all my friends here, and then a Saiga 12..I need all the help I can get.
        Oh, yeah. And some help to hold it. 🙂

        • Sgt. Dale

          J J
          Get a better sling for it. Go with an Ar three point sling. You can us the sling to help stabilize the gun.
          Sgt.

          • JayJay

            Hey, them’s wishing words above; add a little to the cheapest out there and I can pay my property taxes for a year.
            I ain’t getting an inheritance and I don’t play the lottery. 🙂

        • Kulafarmer

          Just an observation,,,
          the saiga, has some issues,,,
          on top of that, the saiga is quite expensive. have a few friends with them, yes they are tacticool..
          I recently got a mossberg 930 Gerry Mculic (sp) competition shotgun, holds 8+1 has a front ribbed bead, and it takes accuchokes or any compatible, (I got a couple different Tru-Lock chokes and they made a huge difference)
          the only modification I made was adding a rail to the receiver and installed a bushnell compact red dot.
          the rifle is nice, recoil is manageable even with heavy buck and slug loads,(I load quite hot) the accuracy is excellent, and it is simple and if I want to shoot trap I can, or if I want to shoot birds I can,,,
          worth a look anyway before you get too caught up with the saiga.

          • Sgt. Dale

            KULA
            I got a Saiga for my wife and I customized it. First thing I did was put a butt stock on it that is spring loaded to obsorb recoil. and a hole lot of other things. Remember she is only 5 7″ and 140 Lbs. she handles this thing like there is no tomorrow. This gun works great with the 10 and 12 rd. mags. With her behind this gun I wouldn’t want to be a Zombie or a Leach running at her.
            A.S.M.S.
            Sgt.

            • .02

              I got a Saiga for my wife- It was a good trade.

              • JayJay

                Shhh. Men are listening.

      • Average Guy

        It’sColdHere, it seems to me, the saying, ‘One, is none’ applies. Just buy the whole thing as a spare if you can afford it. Maybe cover it in Cosmoline and bury it somewhere next to a can of Gun Scrubber?

        My favorite line in this article was this: “The more liberty minded people who have this skill, the better.”

        I don’t know why it’s come to this. I never would have imagined it in my youth. It seems to me it didn’t have to be this way. But like a bully pushing you, that’s the way it is.

      • man on the inside

        fantastic article and this is why many folks in our team train to shoot long. Ipersonally have a 308 and a 7 millimeter. Our teams 3 favorite calibers are 300 308 and 7 millimeter. I am taking the shit hit the fan course and he also discuss’s the sniper issue. PRAY, PLAN, PREP, FORM TEAMS……. and train

      • word

        well as far as dont wast your time
        record your altitude,temp,pressure,humidity.
        zero at 100yds then fire at 300yds 500yds thats your drop
        then look at drag tables for your fps

      • Ben Dhere

        none of this would be necessary if the chickenshit marines, army etc. would do their jobs and uphold the Constitution, they would rather follow the orders of Amerika’s communist dictastership for a paycheck than have the backbone for actual liberty- question? how can people be self-reliant with all you government and military communists riding on their backs? AND if you guys are so tough and manly why are you buttlicking, order taking slaves in Amerika’s communist military? Real men don’t crawl to uncle sugar for a hand out job.

      • Mcdave

        Great article with some REAL information. Refreshing change of pace.
        Off topic but,
        Can we all just ignore the Eisens, Petersons, Facebooks, etc, etc.
        I really do have better things to do than trying to filter out the back and forth BS that does nothing to HELP anybody. That crap adds nothing to the discussion. Every time I read that stuff I can actually feel my IQ decrease.
        Enough already!

      • BJ

        Thanks Mac for posting this, definitely one of the best and favorites IMO. On my list for things to do this year is go to a precision shooting school, just haven’t figured out which one yet. And haven’t decide on glass yet for rifle. And hopefully I can talk a friend into going with me.

      • Ryback

        I have a bolt action .22 with a piece of glass on it that cost eight times more than the rifle itself. With my Unertl 10x, I can reach out 400 yards no wind and pop water filled milk jugs. Also pierce 3/4 inch plywood. That’s a killing shot, WITH A .22! Not bad. Of course that is once I have the scope sighted in, it takes a few shots, yes it probably comes in like a mortar. Brandon, do you center your crosshairs using V blocks?

      • smokey1187

        great info

    2. Faith of the fallen

      Snipers and long range marksman have two things in common, skill and focus. I shoot long range and ultra long range regularly, and let me say it can be a daunting task. If you plan on shooting 1,000+ yards it isn’t cheap or easy. Buy the best gear you can afford. I have about 5 grand in my 338 lapua and around 1500ish in my 308 that I built myself. Next is ammo. Most factory ammo won’t give you the precision you need at extreme range so reloading pet recipes is a must. Then you need a laser rangefinder that will read the target. A rangefinder that will read to a mile is by far not cheap and add a windometer to the mix. It is important to keep a log book to record your dope at different range, elevation, humidity, and temp. I could go on but you get the drift about long range shooting and being a “sniper”. Find a shooter to train with and listen to what he has to say without any prejudice.

      • Kulafarmer

        Curious what sort of muzzle velocities you are running in your 308 and what bullets and ranges, always interested in data.
        Thank you

        • Faith of the fallen

          Hey kula. My favorite 308 load would be a 175 Sierra matchking at 2650 fps it will keep you supersonic to 1000 yards. Federal gold medal match 175gr would be the factory load on this. The federal gold medal match 168 grain is accurate but goes transonic at around 900 yards. If you have a long barrel, as in 26″ or better, the 155 grain loads such as amax or the palm loads will get enough steam to go 1000. Each rifle will shoot different. If I’m correct you a shooting a repr and that gun will like the federal gold medal match ammo.

          • Kulafarmer

            Thanks,
            Like i said before, sounds like i need to up the powder, been trying to work on my accuracy, but like everything in life other stuff takes precidence, not too many guys i have come across over here shooting the same stuff as i do,,
            Was loading with AA 2460 and getting close to the 2600. But it wasnt a fully packed charge and didnt raise any red flags, ran out of the powder,
            Now have tried working up loads with other powder, the Varget sort of freaks me out because even at 42 grains it is pretty full, so going higher without having a chronograph just isnt real comfortable, big difference from gun to gun too, ie my repr vs a rem 700 with a match chamber,,,
            Anyway, its a learning experience, just dont want to blow something up.

          • Shi thead

            And if it doesn’t end up being TEOTWAWKI, you get to answer for your 1000 yd self defense shots. Mine is bigger than yours…..

          • Man on trhe inside

            Thanks Faith for the info…. One of our team memebers read this post and is considering the the longer barrel. She is a good shot but we have told her a longer barrel and change in load will help.

        • HisArmsWide

          FWIW, I use Amax 168/175 bthp in Lapua brass sitting on top of 44.8gr/44.7gr of Varget and CCI primers. This pushes my Savage right around 2740/2680 FPS.

          With those loads, in a sled mind you, it runs sub .50 MOA 5 shot group all day long. With just me, a harris bipod and hand bag it’s .75 MOA shooter on a good day. What can I say, it shoots better than me.

          • Kulafarmer

            Thank you,,,
            I was curious about the velocities because I have been hearing mixed info,
            I am running a little lighter than you velocity wise, was hesitant to push it too high, but apparently I can go higher, hsd been trying to follow the data in my sierra book with the exception of using magnum primers, am about 150 fps higher than the suggested accuracy load for 175 grain SMK, my rifles can definitely shoot better than me,,, depends on how much coffee I drank,also on distractions, shoot better when Im all alone off in the bush than when Im sitting next to a guy with a 50 at the range
            I need to get a new chronograph, thinking a magneto speed, the damn crony I had sucked, only got it to work once, never got it to work again, so gave it away before I decided I should just shoot it with my shotgun,,,
            anywho,, thank you

            • .02

              175 smk + 44 grains varget = perfection.

              • .02

                Lee collet neck sized brass.

            • 006

              Kula, you can also tweak your loads by 1-2 grains at a time, and keep checking your spent primers, if they are not smashed completely flat in the pocket,you should still be in a safe pressure range, once they start flattening back off by 3-5%that should give the maximum performance range for your chosen components.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Kula
          I shoot 165 Gr. Honrady soft point boat tail for hunting(deer and pig)(this round will do well on Zombies/leaches) and target practice. I can shot this at 100 yards and shot three shot groups with at least one hole touching and other. (RESTED) around 2590FPS Ave.

          What I have for snipping set aside is 165 gr Fail Safe Combine Tect form W.W. and Nosler. (they don’t make them any more) these are H.P. boat tail. I shot 3 shot groups with the holes touching each other. (RESTED) Around 2605 Ave.

          I have used the Fail Safe round on Elk and Buffalo at ranges out to 250 yards. ONE SHOT ONE KILL!!! This is why I love this slug.

          I’m working with Barns Trip Shok 165 Gr. and the Nosler Comb Tec 168 gr. silver tip with very good results. around 2600 Ave.

          I mainly shot at 100 yards with my 308’s and I know that the groups will open up the further out I shot.

          I’m hoping that W.W. comes out with the XP3 slug for reloading soon. I have heard great things about it.

          Remember I’m shooting these loads from a 18 1/2 heavy bull barrels. and out of my M1A. Standard Match. I bought it in 1984. when they made a standard match.

          I have found that all rifle are not alike. Some rifles will just love one round and just hate another round.
          so you have to check and use what your rifle likes.

          What I load (disclaimer load at your own risk)is 45Grs of W.W.748 W.W. standard primers. Case length 2.000 over all length 2.0800 with the Horndy 165 and the Fail Safe.
          with the Barns and the 168Gr. silver tip the over all length is 2.0805 or so.
          I have also found the BLC2, and Varget powder works very well also.
          KULA’ I hope this helped.

          AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
          Sgt.

          • Kulafarmer

            Thank you Sarge, yes it is all a help, definitely.
            Was checking out the Berger bullets, they have an old school BTHP. VLD hunting/match
            Want to try that, was the bullet on some Winchester hunting ammo i had for a 30-06 i used to have, was quite effective, so looking to try that.

      • Hammerun

        If you get a chance find a copy of “Notes of a sniper” by Vasily Zaitsev. An interesting read and informative. It gets into the shooters head on a personal level by the author.
        Target selection and why. Patients and why, escape and when and why. It’s a good read for those that will never be trained militarily.
        Of you are a hunter you’ll understand this book.

      • Warchild Dammit!

        Which is why I practice and hope can be good on a regular shot distance of say 300 yards.With a 308 can reach out further but expensive/time consuming/have no one to train me for real long range/you can do it great,I cannot be high level skilled in everything,am not a professional soldier.I have also found even with a family property of 600 acres hard to find a good place to practice those longer ranges in a safe manner,damn trees!

        • Faith of the fallen

          If you want to learn long range start shooting 22 at 200 to 300 yards. It will familiarize you with extreme drop and drift. When you get to where you can tight group a 22 at 300 yards, you’re ready to take a rifle out aways.

      • Sgt. Dale

        F,F,
        Man you are right on. Thanks for say what you did!

        I hope all the great folks on this sight reads this. This is some of the best advise in the area I have seen.

        EVERYBODY THESE ARE WORDS OF GREAT WISDOM, Please heed them.

        AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
        Sgt.

      • Mark Smith

        Look to see if your local range has Precision Tactical Rifle or LR/XLR matches.

        Just as Brandon described in his own case, local competitors can “show you the ropes,” give advice about technique, equipment, and even loan or sell you good used gear as they upgrade their own equipment.

        As Faith of the Fallen properly testifies, good equipment is EXPENSIVE.

        http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/guns/precision-rifles/dta-srs-sniper-rifle-chassis.html

      • Mcdave

        Faith,
        Thanks for the wisdom, and I agree the point is to learn and improve.

      • BJ

        Good post and thanks for sharing your experience. To me, finding a shooter to help you train would be the hardest step

    3. Shooter

      I love 30 30 because my grandpa gave me one as my first gun. To me it’s the all American gun.

      • hammerhead

        yea , shooter , the marlin 3030 is real common in mich with deer hunters. lots of brush to walk thru , its tough to beat.they are cheap and plentiful and nearly unbreakable .

      • BJ

        I was going to buy the Mossberg 30-30 Tactical, but thought against it since I don’t see or can’t find ammo for it ANYWHERE!

    4. ItIsWell

      Well, this article doesn’t help me any. My ten year old daughter shoots better than me. I’m probably the worst shot in the south.
      Oh well…that guy has a pretty dog. In my opinion a good watch dog is worth more than sniper skills anyways. We all have to sleep sometime in a.shtf situation.

    5. Pissed off white guy idea

      Hey Russia and China… if you think you guys are going to come on our soil under the dem UN disguise of “UN peace keepers”… I’m sure the 150 million armed Americans will have something to say about it…as well as the Marines, the army and the air force.

      US Sovereignty!

      BTW… Jewish bankers from Israel and around the world… take your debt offerings of enslavement and shove them up your butts!!! We’re not buying.
      CASH ONLY.

      Frankly… I’m sure many on this site hopes the United States crashes hard and bad…Then people will wake up and we can get back to sound money policy, a US based industry and much more.

      Nothing will change I feel until it’s all crapped out and run it’s course.

      The real Terrorists are the Dems and LIberals.
      Remember that when things get very bad and things fall apart.

    6. smokey

      So just how do you determine the intent of someone 1,000 yards away?

      Absent blue helmets or cop badges, opening fire on someone doesn’t seem to be warranted without knowing what’s up. The cop could be Sgt. Dale….

      • durango kidd

        Good point Smokey. Rule number one is identifying your target before you engage.

        The New World Order can be eliminated overnight and at 500 yards. 🙂

        • guero

          The key to maximizing damage to equipment is in knowing how it works. The sniper should have a basic working knowledge of various types of technology, just as he is taught to recognize aircraft and vehicles.
          – On an Armored vehicle, commander and driver vision blocks, commander’s sight, gunner’s sight, thermal and other optical devices, computer mast, and external protection devices are all legitimate targets for the sniper.
          – A military force is only as effective as its command and control system. Most of the battlefield radios used today are no stronger than their WW2 predecessors, and are not resistant to direct fire. Antennas are easy to locate.
          – Crew-served weapons are a favorite target of the sniper; without them many units are seriously depleted of heavy firepower. If the crews are under cover due to sniper fire, the weapon is not in use, and the sniper has scored a success!

      • John W.

        Articles like this will bring this website some attention that it does not want. That goes for the frequent posters here. If you want to discuss sniping you better do in a close circle of friends. Totally wrong on a site like this. Just asking for trouble.

        • JayJay

          Heck John, when they come to get us, does it matter if the subject was sniping or dehydrated corn??
          Just saying.

      • Average Guy

        1,000 yards away is not that far, smokey.

        It’s not like the ‘miles away’ the drone operators determine things, smokey. But lets ask the afghans, they have experience with the sort of things that the people of the unitedstate appear to be heading down the pike towards full speed ahead and headlong into, eh?

        If the cop is Sgt. Dale, smokey, he should have removed his badge and uniform yesterday. After the deal in So. Cal. with the murder scot free, or what happened to Police Chief Shane Harger, he’d be inhuman not to. I.e. it’s too bad he stayed on the wrong side. Give up on the dark side Luke!

        • PO'd Patriot

          1000 yds. is far enough if your adversaries gun is only effective 300 to 500 yds. Time and distance is your friend.

        • Kulafarmer

          its for your own safety that they will drone some poor schlub like me,,,

        • Sgt. Dale

          Ave;
          If all good cops were to run away from the thugs that are doing all of these bad things, You civilians would not stand a chance. The good LEO’s out here are keeping the bad ones from just going on a rampage, becasue they will have to take us on, and they are afraid of us!!!
          I’m sorry you feel that way, but for me I’m staying and going to do my best in my little corner of the world to see that these thugs don’t go on a rampage.
          Sgt.

      • NoRegretVet

        @ Smokey….

        That is why I always ask folks if they understand ROE….

        “Rules of Engagement ”

        If you do not know who or how many you are up against or have scouts with the proper intel …and you do not have very many or no one to back you up….I would not engage anyone at long ranges…You don’t know if there is 2 or 200 men out there !!!

        You could be bringing the Wrath Of Hell down on yourself.

        Think about it…..

      • Sgt. Dale

        Smokey
        Thanks. When TSHTF I don’t think I will be wearing my badge.
        More that likely your observer will tell you what they are up to.
        You real don’t want to shoot until they are with in around 250 yards anyway. By then you will know what they are up to.
        Our group is going to put up little signs at around 500 yards or so stating “IF YOU CAN SEE THIS SIGN OUR SNIPERS CAN SEE YOU)
        Don’t worry about shooting 1000 yards. It is not worth the time, ammo, or giving up your location.
        Again Thanks for not wanting to shoot at me.
        Sgt.

      • .02

        The only 1000 yard target is an invading officer or if you witness cannibals/child molestation/rapist. Always look for the one giving orders, one shot/one kill-move.

    7. Faith of the fallen

      I might get flamed for this but here it goes. We as preppers need to fear a rogue sniper in a shtf scenario. Say you are hungry, desperate and Ill prepared but can shoot like nobodies business. If I was in that position looking into the eyes of my hungry family and I knew joe blow had a lot of food here’s what I’d do in his shoes. I’d go to my closet, pull out my guille suit and precision rifle and set up a hide on ole joes hacienda. I’d learn his and his groups habits and wait for my opportunity to take them out. Something to take in consideration. You can’t fight what you don’t see. At 600 yards and beyond you wouldn’t see or hear what killed you. Now I’m not saying me personally would do that because I’m prepared. But there a lot of talented shooters that don’t take prepping seriously.

    8. God's Cremation

      I’ve seen a lot of this guy’s stuff. I won’t comment on his shooting prowess or knowledge. I would however like to know if he is self-trained or has a military or law enforcement background? Does anyone know? Has he seen combat? I have read some of his stuff and there is a lot of bravado in his writing. He certainly is confident, I will give him that much. I wonder how confident he will be when bullets start flying or when someone decides to shoot back at him. I can guarantee him that there are many more shooters out there that are just as skilled as he is (or claims to be). Seems to me that me that we could all serve one another better if we all continued to work together with our families, neighbors and friends. It would seem more logical than writing articles about your wet dream of becoming the next Simo Häyhä.

      JMHO

      • Brandon Smith

        @Cremation

        I would worry less about MY shooting prowess and worry more about your own, guy. If the methods I present here don’t help you, then perhaps I don’t know what I’m talking about and you can go tell all your friends. If they do help you, and others, then have the good sense to accept the information without jumping to absurd conclusions about my personal character, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything anyway.

        • God's Cremation

          Sure. I don’t worry about my shooting prowess. But I don’t underestimate what is “out there” either and I sure as hell don’t post my rig and my “selfie” in all my gear to let people know how awesome I am and how much of a badass I am. You look like a fool. Your posts, while informational reek of macho bravado and self-righteousness. It’s people like you who give this movement a bad name. I’d like to know how you would react if sh*t really came your way. Because God knows, that is the last place I want to be or what I want to happen to myself and my group. I have read some of your stuff before and I could swear that you WANT this stuff to come your way. You think you are the only one with “skills” out there? Think you are untouchable? A little less ego might go along way with some of your posts. BTW, are you self-taught? Military trained? LE trained? You never seem to answer that question.

          • BJ

            Mac, Gosh dAmmit…post an article on disinformation tactics….the shit is rampant here!

          • Brandon Smith

            @Cremation

            It sounds like you have been butthurt by the article, but I’m not exactly sure why? Did I steel your girlfriend or piss in your cornflakes at some point during your life? You keep trying to make this discussion about me, but who cares about me? Why do you care so much about me? The information stands on its own. Disprove it or shut up. Everything else is a waste of precious time.

          • Shi thead

            If you’re a badass, try Preparation H.

      • Average Guy

        To the guy going by the nic, ‘God’s Cremation’ [Which is a creepy nic, BTW] As much as I despise the cops and the military, what difference does it make who trained him?

        The only question is, whose side is he on now, and what knowledge does he have to transmit?

        You write that it, “Seems to me that me that we could all serve one another better if we all continued to work together with our families, neighbors and friends.”

        Ya. Ya. That’s cool. No problem with that. Only problem is, our gooberment is making plans to rub us all out.

        As judge Andrew P. Napolitano wrote, “What will he do next? What will we do about it?”

        http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/01/andrew-p-napolitano/the-state-of-the-authoritarian-union/

        Anyway, I noticed you didn’t say, what it was, “we” could work together to do?

        Maybe you meant was, to learn what panarchy is? Is that what you mean? If so, it sounds good to me. I wonder if, in a way, the people in Finland during WWII were panarchist when they resisted the German war machine and used their rifles to say so?

      • Average Guy

        Crap, my comment is awaiting moderation, so here it is without the link:

        To the guy going by the nic, ‘God’s Cremation’ [Which is a creepy nic, BTW] As much as I despise the cops and the military, what difference does it make who trained him?

        The only question is, whose side is he on now, and what knowledge does he have to transmit?

        You write that it, “Seems to me that me that we could all serve one another better if we all continued to work together with our families, neighbors and friends.”

        Ya. Ya. That’s cool. No problem with that. Only problem is, our gooberment is making plans to rub us all out.

        As judge Andrew P. Napolitano wrote, “What will he do next? What will we do about it?”

        link

        Anyway, I noticed you didn’t say, what it was, “we” could work together to do?

        Maybe you meant was, to learn what panarchy is? Is that what you mean? If so, it sounds good to me. I wonder if, in a way, the people in Finland during WWII were panarchist when they resisted the German war machine and used their rifles to say so?

        • CrabbeNebulae

          Finland used their rifles against anyone who decided to rule them instead of help them. Finland was allied with Germany against the Soviets throughout most of WWII, not against them. They began to shoot Germans along toward the end of the war to force Germany out of their sovereign territory. (kinda like forcing your mother-in-law to leave after she overstayed her visit.) It seems to me that the Finns were at war with anyone who decided to invade Finland whether it be Germany, Britain, or the Soviets. The Finns were independent minded and tough folks. Yeah Finland!!

      • Warchild Dammit!

        CM,the author does seem to be trying to work with others by passing along some knowledge about distance shooting,unless you are in Montana your not gonna be buds with him.As for how well he will do in a combat situation have no idea,more concerned about how well I will do as I have not been in a full blown combat situation,after a very bad/bloody car wreck I came upon with gas leaking with the help of another person got the driver out and to a safe place,after cops ambulance came puked,cop said nothing to worry about,happens to those even used to such situations.My point being hope I can do what is needed under stress and then if I puke/have adrenalin shakes and nightmares down the road so be it.

        • BB Stacker

          Definitely nothing to be ashamed of. Happened to me as well during the first “real” prolonged firefight. Puked my guts out. Shook like a dog crappin a peach seed for several hours after it was over. Never gets easy, and I never got used to it. However, your emotions seem to get slightly more numb after a few situations like that.

          Sounds like you handled the situation better than most folks would. You did what you thought was best and probably saved someones life. I would rather have someone like you that can admit they don’t know how they will react when the incoming rounds are making that supersonic crack past your head, than someone who is way too confident in their untested abilities. They commonly are referred to as statistics.

          • Night Breaker

            BB stacker ,
            That’s a sound you NEVER forget that snaping sound as rounds pass over your head , then the report of the gun seconds later.

            Quite unnerving. Everybody gets those adrenaline shakes after contact. Never met a person who did not experience them.

            Semper Fi 8541

            • embers

              shouldnt of been there ass wipe, you want to be a real hero……actually defend your country instead of the banksters!

            • NoRegretVet

              @ Night Breaker….

              Night Breaker…Reading your post I got the feeling I get when I have sat with other Veterans and talked…Your observations are correct.

              The/My post was posted and erased several times and yes it was meant as some sort of…some idea….some layman termed post to get some folks to understand what the “Reality ” of what will most likely come and what it will or could be like….I feel like this area “Is Not ” something you or I could ever truly convey via a post here..Nor would I ever attempt it…I know there are some true Combat Seasoned Veterans some where on here…And I oft times feel that kindred spirit with them…But how in God’s Name can we explain to those who have not been there what it is like…as we use to say..You will NEVER know until you have ” Felt it…Smelt it and Dealt it ” How does one explain/convey such a thing ….I think it would be easier to explain to someone what a banana taste like though they have never tasted a banana !!!

              I have been to ranges where I have actually just stood almost frozen… with tears rolling down my face just watching the masses with their new toys and cute outfits….as though attempting to re enact some BS scene from their favorite movie…..I would have the most horrific thoughts about what was going to happen these people…and they would never see it coming.

              “We” both know that there is nothing glamorous or romantic about War……The Sheeple population is clueless….I have had conversations with people that made chills run up my back…..And then those feelings of what was going to happen to them and their loved ones….And I would Pray….

              How could you possibly instill something like:

              Fear = Will Make you Stupid

              Panic = Will get you killed

              Being into enviromental and situational awareness..something that never left me after the Military…I just watch people and see how unaware most are….And as we both know you can be in a ” World Of Shit ” in a matter of seconds…so how do “You” explain to the masses what it was like ?

              I don’t truly think most people even understood your post….they don’t really want to hear the truth…just the cool Joe Tactical BS…That is not Reality.

              Do you think that you could convey your thoughts…training..experiences….and what true time in Hell feels like…truly is to the common masses….I already know the answer to the question.

              I have not been on here but a few weeks and have learned more about Myself….People in general…..and about Humanity…..I think it maybe time for me to stop attempting to talk to the masses or my friends….most are deaf…and for this I do not blame them……This country has been lulled into some sort of non reality coma…..

              So, knowing what we know….how do we help….or do we accept the fact that all of this might just be beyond help. And we just try to find each other…go back to back once again and make our stand. Easier for you ….remember us Vietnam Veterans are of Conflicts Past….

              We are loosing about 20 Veterans per day to suicide…actually have lost more to suicide than to the BS they were ask to defend…and for what. And people do not pay any attention to things like this…Nor do they even ask the question ” WHY ? ”

              I admire you….it has been an honor to have exchanged thoughts…..I respect you for having made it to Quantico..Very Few do…. and may God carry you and your Loved Ones softly in the Palms of his hands…and as I say to All My Fellow Veterans :

              ” Welcome Home ”

              Before starting to post on here…I realized that a lot said was a contradiction in terms….So, I said I need a post name is a ” Total ” contradiction in terms…So Goes

              ” NoRegretVet ”

              Be Safe

          • Warchild Dammit!

            Thanks BB,the cops gave me and other guy verbal citizen of the week award.They then parked my 4×4 van in a safe spot with tools for night and gave me a ride home as I was publicly hitting pint of Jack coworker left in van.The statie on ride home said he could stop by market as he hadn’t had dinner yet,his point was perhaps I wanted to go next door and get some beer(had plenty at home with waiting girlfriend).The statie also at scene handed me back ivory handled switchblade used to cut seat belt with.Next day local cops came to house,gave me ride to border town were accident happened and those locals gave me ride to van they kept a eye on all night.That cop also suggested leave switchblade at home and recommended a spring assist knife that will cut belts without even opening and has a glass breaking point on handle,have one in all vehicles now.I asked what the big deal was and he said if you ever come across a bad burn victim would understand,said guys have left jobs in leo/fire and emergency occasionally due to the shock.On a side note do have enuff basic medical knowledge not to move a car accident victim unless something like leaking gas,no new dangers leave em alone till help with right equipment arrives.

        • .02

          war, there are many people I know that cant shoot animals as they loose it to the shakes/pukes. My dead brother killed a huge bull elk @ about 20 paces (it was bugled in and was attacking them) and after the shot he lost control of his legs and fell over and pissed himself. It took him about 30 minutes b/4 he could regain his composure and quit shaking. It was the 2nd largest bull ever taken in Boundary County, Idaho. Now. lets multiply this by 100 or so and you are shooting @ humans.. I have killed many large game animals, Bear, deer, elk, and bullwinkle, and you know I do a lot of predator hunting in the off season, the adrenalin runs high when you see antlers, but just the thought of shooting humans makes me sick to my stomach. IF I HAD too I could, but I am going to do everything in my power to make it to the other side without ever taking a human life.

      • buttcrackofdoom

        what part didn’t you like? he didn’t put good, sound shooting advice into the article? maybe YOU could ADD to his suggestions, instead of trying to discredit him? what are YOUR qualifications to speak on the matter? nobody KNOWS what they will do when the bullets start flying, until they’ve been there. me? if i’m at MY compound a mile from any road, and i see armed shooters(or, LOOTERS) advancing toward my position 500 yards away, i want to be able to take them out with as much distance between us as possible….this is AFTER TSHHTF, of course. thanks to brandon for an informative article.

      • Mark Smith

        Brandon’s article showed modesty suitable to his experience level.

        While any of his sub-topics could be fleshed out more, he did an excellent job of presenting the basics that a complete newbie would need to know.

        My only criticism is that he touted a scope that mixes a mil reticle with moa elevation/windage turrets (mil/moa). It makes much more sense to have either a moa reticle with moa turrets (moa/moa) or a mil reticle with mil turrets (mil/mil).

      • BJ

        I am in a mood, or I would be nicer….hey dumb ass, try reading the post first, dick for brains

      • BJ

        Gods cremation…what a terrible and stupid name. Oh and you’re a douche bag….move on.

    9. no justice

      A nicely written article. I believe Simo Hayha did much of his shooting with iron sights. I read the story of the Winter War, very interesting and I think that info was there. One item about sniping is that can be very demoralizing to the targets, which is why they are hunted hard, as was Carlos Hathcock.

    10. Ramadiron

      We always said in Iraq if you get to pick if you are going to get in a shooting fight make sure its over 300 yards most normal joes cant shoot worth a crap over it.

    11. JayJay

      Okay–we had a post for the guys–now one for the girls.
      Dehydrating or…proper folding of the bottom sheet.
      Just joking ;-).I just stuff that sucker inside the pillow case.

      • Sgt. Dale

        JJ
        I just wish my wife would post here. She has learned more and done more over the last 15 years, to become a better shot and prepper that I have ever seen. Damn I’m proud of her.
        She told me once that I might be one of the first to go because TPTB will more than likely be hunting for folks like me, and the guy who did this article, and she wanted to be ready to fight back and to take out as many of the S.O.B.’s as she can.
        I hope they do an article for the Ladies, about shooting reloading food gathering. You Gals have it hands down on food storage and canning.
        So PLEASE GET SOME STORY FOR THE GALS!!!
        Sgt.

        • JayJay

          I commend you and your wife. Best I can do is take the little youth 12 gauge out, unload it, play with it a little, cock it, release, just for the feel, load and put it back in it’s little slot between the water heater pipes!!!!!!
          I just want to APPEAR I know what I’m doing if a varmint comes to my back porch.

          • Mountain Trekker

            JayJay, what you are doing is exactly the way I trained my kids when they were young. I would get a gun out, if it was a highpower usually a 30-30 and I would check and double check to make sure it was unloaded and then I would tell them if you ever want to shoot or look at one of my guns, just tell me and we will get it out, but never ever touch them if I’m not with you. And after checking the gun I would sit them down on the couch and say now play with this gun as long as you want, lever it, let the hammer down and cock it and pull the trigger after awhile when they was familiar with the gun, I would take them out and let them shoot. Never had a problem and they’re all proficent with a gun. May not be proper, but it worked for me. Trekker Out. Freemen Own Guns, Slaves Don’t

            • BJ

              I tell my kids the same thing MT. But I have got them to the point that we don’t call them anything but a “tool”.

        • Wyoming hunter

          Women are much better shots than men. When told that the secret to shooting is to not flinch, they don’t.

    12. McFrolie

      Another go buy this $500 dollar scope and this $2000 rifle. You will need a mini weather station for $500. Yea, do tell me how much the government spent on Simo Hayha kit. Or Vasily Zaytsev, Josef Allerberger or Marie Ljalková for that matter.

      The individual that has used a rifle all his life is the one to fear. A long range marksman teaches himself. You don’t buy your way in.
      Montana dude should switch to shilling stocks. More money in it.

      • Mountain Trekker

        Sorry McFrolie, the government may have bought Simo a gun, but I worked all my life and bought my own guns and have used them my whole life, and a long range marksman may teach himself, but the right equipment sure does help. Trekker Out.

    13. The Old Coach

      Fodder for the mall ninjas amongus, IMHO. Long range sniping works in places like Afghanistan and Montana, but it’s not going to be a gamechanger in more settled environments when you are on the “small” side of an asymmetric war. The tactics and weapons of the French maquisards and Serbian partisans from WW2 need much more attention, but they don’t get it because there’s no fancy equipment involved.

    14. Socrates

      Some good points in this article and some important points were left out. While I realize this was meant to be a primer, or very basic article, these additional points deserve to be mentioned.

      1. Whatever weapon or platform you choose, you MUST become very proficient…period, or you won’t be a sniper for very long. When you are hunting game and you miss a shot, the report or gunshot is usually enough to frighten everything else away. You may go home empty handed because you missed your one perfect shot. When hunting other humans, especially skilled, armed ones if you miss- you may not be going home at all.

      2. Know your limits and that of your weapon. Can you lie still on the frozen ground for extended periods of time? How about in the extreme heat and humidity with sweat pouring down your forehead? Snipers don’t usually get up and move to another area until they are fairly sure a threat has been neutralized or they know their cover has been compromised. This means not only moving, but knowing how and where to move to next. You may have to run, climb, crawl and a host of other challenging physical jaunts…all while slinging your rifle, gear and ammo and not leaving a tell tale trail. Combat troops rely on squads and power in numbers…snipers have no such luxury.

      3. How much ammo can you carry? There is a huge difference in weight lugging around 100-300 rds of 5.56 vs .308 or .300 Win Mag. Smart money says you can only safely carry so much. You need to know how much that is and practice moving with it quickly.

      4.Know what counter measures/traps you can use.
      Your targets will not always waltz right into your crosshairs, so you need to learn to steer them where you want. Examples of this would be setting up a blood trail so that other people or animals will follow it. Animals smell the blood and will follow it thinking there is a meal waiting…to your clear shot area. People will follow it thinking another human or animal is at the end of that trail. They could both be right.

      Countermeasures are methods to hide you physically and electronically. A ghille suit (or other improvised cover) works great for silenced, low visibility areas. If you have a LOUD cannon that throws 4ft of flame from the barrel, better hope you are only going up against one target. In WWII some German forest snipers used .25 caliber air rifles, as they were almost silent, lightweight and left no muzzle flash, making them perfect for night use. Try taking a .25 cal bullet to the forehead or base of the neck and let me know how that works out for you.

      Summary: Skilled snipers are a very deadly asset and your worst fear is not running out of ammo, but showing up in the crosshairs of your enemy sniper.

      • buttcrackofdoom

        thanks for the additional INFORMATIVE content socrates! good stuff there.

      • Sgt. Dale

        Soc.
        Great Post.
        Sgt.

    15. Stew Pedaso

      You’ll never hear the shot that killed you.

    16. 223.

      After watching the movie “THE COLONY” , i will pray that i will have a mini 14 or the same against a hungry man eating group of demonic fools.

    17. VRF

      When the citizens votes no longer count , time to vote from the roof tops
      Maybe hangin’s too good for these traitors.

      • buttcrackofdoom

        from ballot box, to BULLET box!

    18. Any Mouse

      I had a .243 that I really liked. It wasn’t expensive, fun to shoot, had great muzzle velocity and was LOUD! It sounded like a cannon compared to a .223. I sold it a few years ago so I could get the DW her concealed.

      If I was looking for another longer range platform I would probably start there or a .308. One thing I didn’t see in the article was noise suppression, without it you are one shot and done, maybe two if lucky.

      Great article though.

      • Sgt. Dale

        A.M
        Snipers motto. “ONE SHOT ONE KILL”
        You don’t want to shoot twice from the same place, the bad guy can figure out where you are.

    19. Old Vet

      As for me, after all is said and done when the balloon goes up; IRON SITES WILL RULE THE DAY. I will not and have not bought any rifle that does not have iron sites PEROID. Scopes are nice to have, but remember sooner or later they will break, and that rifle you have with just a scope for sighting now what(I guess duck tape and popsicle sticks). If you cannot do it with iron sites you probably cannot do it anyway. I have trusted my life on more than one time to iron sites and I’m still here. These are my thoughts on this. Yes scopes are needed for ultra- long shots, but just think before you leap into all the gear that is needed.

      • concrete jungle

        inner city bricks & mortar will be brutal on scopes besides need a smaller hole in the wall when shooting with iron sights, me thinks money will be much wiser spent on a new ar upper in socom 458 that can reach through brick walls at 100-200 yards than reach out to 1000+ yrds with an ultra magnum

    20. It'sColdHere

      Re 22.

      I have no pity for lack of 22 or any other ammo. Nov 2008 I watched the world change. The world had been warning me for nearly a year. So that night I ordered my first big cases of ammo. After that I bought and bought and bought; especially 22LR.

      Now, I’m about as good as I can get it. Probably more than I’ll ever use. If most folks screaming about 22 knew how much I had…..well….too bad. 22 is out there, I get it all the time and I add to my stash all the time.

      I try to sell it at the going rates but told I’m a scammer. Funny how supply/demand rules go out the window when everyone thinks they should pay ‘x’ for ammo but yet will pay whatever the pump price states at the gas station. Oh well. Pay me a little now or pay me a LOT later – they will pay because I have what they don’t.

      22 isn’t the answer to everything but it’s easy to shoot, fairly accurate, plentiful….well for me it is… and most folks have a 22. It hunts, it kills, it defends and it’s better than nothing.

      Whatever your poison is, stock up, stock up, stock up folks. I have a feeling that ‘scarce’ is going to be the understatement of the year.

      • BJ

        Funny how in modern times that capitalism’s supply and demand theory is really a disguise for greed. It is exactly why the world is what it has turned into by the banksters and wall street fellas, much like yourself.
        Capitalism, is fine and so is supply/demand, but most times today it is as I already said and just greed.

    21. Frank Thoughts

      I trained as a sniper in the 80s for a force I will not mention. He misses some ‘killer apps’ about sniping that are the thing that marks out the real deal from the person trying to do it with instructions on a website.

      These factors mean 99 per cent of the population will never acquire the capability to be a functioning sniper. Trying to be a sniper with an enormous pot belly under you, or spindly pen-pusher arms, or with the cardio capability of somebody with asthma dragging an iron ball, or having the distracted mental abilities of your typical TV/smartphone junkie, will not work.

      Trying to nail somebody at 1,000 yards would defeat most people as a physical and mental exercise.

      As a source of amusement, we trained a great deal to do harassing hits: pop people off every time they tried to take a crap in the morning. Very effective psychological warfare. Do that for a couple of weeks and a FOB or base will stop functioning.

      • Any Mouse

        I admit I’m a lot rounder than I used to be

        • Mountain Trekker

          Any Mouse, I know what you mean. It’s sure getting hard to bellycrawl under a barbed wire fence. Sometimes I snag my coat. Trekker Out.

      • BJ

        “Amusement” huh? People like you are why I despise our DoD (which should be DOO, dept of offense) and the BS crap we do world wide. Non wonder we are hated by so many.

    22. Eisenkreuz

      Shame on you Brandon Smith. It is unethical and immoral to put up an article about sniping and to encourage others to kill people on the open net. This article is disgusting…and thats coming from me.

      A sniper is the ultimate coward. He wounds the first two so others will come for help, then he shoots them all down. Go ask SELCO what he thinks about snipers. But you cant hide from the lord your God.

      How many times do you morons have to be told that an economic collapse is not a war zone? You need to stop with this brass balls rambo faggotry and be sensible. Think about economics. Read books not think about killing people. Do you guys ever even think about this stuff?

      I know you big military chest thumping war pumping neocon shitheads will eat this article up and extoll the virtues of shooting people even as the shitmeister BI calls me “dangerous”.

      But just stop to think, dickheads, if you like this article:

      I hope its your children in the crosshairs of someones tacti-cool super battle rifle. I hope its your grown son that goes out scavenging for food to feed his starving crying children and someone caps his little ass.

      You skidmarks. May it be visited upon your family sevenfold.

      • Brandon Smith

        Actually, I have been a macro-economist for the past 8 years. I have studied every modern economic collapse and their conditions, and if you think that you are going to live through a full spectrum social meltdown without having to use deadly force to defend yourself, then you are more ignorant than your pithy little adolescent rant suggests.

        I’m sorry, but there are bad people in this world that deserve to be shot, and maybe those people will come for you and your family one day. When that day comes, then come and complain to me about attempting to teach liberty minded people how to shoot long distance.

        Really, what is the difference between shooting a threat to your family or your liberty at 50 yards or at 1000 yards, except that you and your family are safer? If you can’t pull the trigger in the face of tyranny, then you are just yellow.

        • Eisenkreuz

          Youre an idiot. Society will never decay to the point youre going to be allowed to shoot civilians as a sniper. You military assholes are the scum of the Earth.

          • durango kidd

            E: Gotta disagree with you. The DAY is coming when human flesh will be rare upon this planet. At least that is what the Bible says, for those of US who look to it for guidance.

            War is coming in the Middle East. War creates chaos. Chaos generates unintended consequences. Earth Changes are also coming. These Changes will generate global nuclear war. Its not gonna happen tomorrow, but the processes that generate these events have begun.

            Forewarned is well armed and capable of self defense. 🙂

          • Mountain Trekker

            Eisenkraut you make some very interesting quotes but also very confusing. On one hand you say Society will never decay to the point of snipers shooting civilians, and in more than one of your comments you said, go ask Selco. Why ask Selco? What type of situation was he in. Trekker Out.

        • Be informed

          @ Brandon Smith.

          I think you are a fine writer and know much about what you are talking about. The character that you just replied to is a total psychopath that for over a year has wished death upon anyone over 50, the boomer generation and all American soldiers and veterns, hates women, and defends homosexual pedophiles as the ones that are the victims. This is your next Cho, the nut at West Virgina. This lunatic is yellow and will only pull the trigger over and over again to those that can;t fight back. Just check out some of this demented insane maniac from the hundreds of rantings in past articles about wanting death to hundreds of millions. Recently he said, die boomer bastards die. This fungus wants genocide, do let anyone be fooled from this sicko, the proof is all there for anyone to see.

          I tried to engage this waste and someone on this site by the name of Paranoid gave me some very wise advice that you talk to dog shit, or a fart that is nothing but a circulation of air. Someone like this is not worthwhile any response, especially someone like yourself that took the time to help us all have a better idea of what dto do and what will happen after the world as we know it collapses. By the way you have a really nice looking dog.

          • Eisenkreuz

            I have never defended pedophiles. Youre a turd for spreading these lies about me. I fucking hate you.

            • Kulafarmer

              You do realize that your rants and behavior make you look like a petty immature so and so dont you,,,
              Perhaps best to think a little before you post and perhaps try to not pick spitting matches with people,
              Makes it so NOBODY takes YOU serious!
              JMHO

              • Be informed

                @ Kulafarmer. All someone has to do is look back at these rants to prove what a total crackbrained screwball this is. One comment it is about saving humanity and the other is about wiping out humanity. So many posts about pro homosexual positions, including protecting the weirdos that fool with kids. This character says there is no difference between being with a woman or a man. You bet there is. One is something that is something that people like myself and most others cannot even think about, it is beyond repulsive.

                The real issue though is the schizo issue with this person. They flip back and forth like someone with multiple personalities. Again, this is all in past comments that anyone can view the previous year or more as proof. Especially the unhinged mind that talks about how much they want certain huge groups of people to die based on them being born between 1946 and 1964. Someone so totally bonkers it is actually sad that someone is not helping such a demented psychopath.

                • Kulafarmer

                  Yea, every time that fucker starts ranting about boomers it makes me want go out and smash something, im a boomer, havent had a hand in any of what this dink is saying, in fact im every bit as screwed as anyone else,,
                  Some people you just cant reach.

                • Be informed

                  @ Kulafarmer and Brandon Smith. Exactly. You see the rantings above about wanting innocent children to be in the crosshairs of a super battle rifle. See how the truth comes out in the spastic mind of a lunatic. He wants little children to die because he disagrees with their parents. Do you see how someone like this can and has fully supported perverts attacking children? Right above, it states, that children that have harmed no one deserve to be shot because of the parents. It is all there in past comments dated from today to many months ago as proof. This individual is extremely dangerous and I hope someone stops this psycho before they harm hundreds of people one day. I pray to God to protect people from when this loco’s mind finally cooks over.

            • Jim in Va.

              This is what you get for being such an ass on this site. you spew hate, you’ll get it back.

          • BJ

            BI wake up already, you and braveheart both seem to have more intelligence than you display when dealing with Eisenkreuz. Eisenkreuz is definitely NOT a psychopath. He is no more a psycho than Durango Kidd is anything at all that he/she/it claims to be. Understand this, the internet and sites like this have been totally infiltrated by the enemy and their games and tactics run rampant. Do your homework, you seem too intelligent to keep making your self look bad by dealing with E.

            • Be informed

              @ BJ. I have dealt with two schizos in my life directly. One was a girl in college that people went after in high school for looking like a peasant girl. She nearly attacked me for even mentioning this from a high school that I did not even attend. Then bang, she was fine and laughing. The other person was dangerous, and people at the worksite always wondered when they were going to go postal. This character on this web site has identical mannerisms to these two people.

              Durango Kidd has different opinions that some people don;t agree with, but he has a very rational mind and is intelligent. He doesn’t go around wishing people death on a huge scale and then flips around and talks about how humanity needs to be saved. Durango Kidd may bring up topics that upset people, so does The Old Coach, but I respect both of them because they are like others here, willing to spend their time and their opinions and knowledge with all of us. The Old Coach has bought up some surprisingly good insight, and been very critical of me rambling, but he is an asset to this site.

              The lunatic that you talk about has upset people, lots of them through making cruel and sadistic comments menat to hurt and sting. The comment about all soldiers and verterns deserving to die really ripped into Canadain Vet the other night. Then just like a schizo this crackpot turns around and starts talking like a person of God. People like this also forget their rants and why this person can’t even remember the extremely insane comments they made. There are trolls just trying to get a reaction like NC Joker and finx, and there are psychopaths that are totally unconnected with reality. God protect those that are around this person if and when their mind finally snaps.

              Seriously look up schizophenic on any search engine and you will see the symptoms are there crystal clear. This person needs deep mental help, and I blame the mental health care of this country for not having better means of helping these people before they go into a full maniac rage.

              • Jibo

                Be informed, you and Braveheart in my opinion bear more guilt than anybody else on this site for keeping this train wreck coming back here daily. You are both providing him with the ONE and ONLY reason for returning to this place, an AUDIENCE!. To claim you can’t help yourself or you’re too concerned has officially become threadbare and worn out as viable reasons. For the sake of all here, PLEASE stop responding to him. You’ll be amazed how quickly he’ll lose interest and disappear, if that is what you REALLY want. Thank You.

                • Be informed

                  @ Jibo. I had not responded to this nut for months until this character went psycho about 2 and 1/2 weeks ago. There must have been about 40 of these rantings to everyone. I linked a story about the way the government was attacking Christians via homosexuals DEMANDING service from a bakery. I was trying to prove how our rights have been taken away from us and what dangers homosexuals pose to children because of the way the government is giving homos a free ride to molest based on the discrimination ploy that many minorities now use. This lunatic went off the edge with this.

                  You are right that I took it badly, like JayJay said, you don’t pull the hair back on someone that pulls your hair like a 1st Grader. However what this psychopath has been saying is extremely harmful to those that are already going through much stress. I have found from the past that such bullies need to be called out from their actions. From now on I will ONLY stress the facts frfom these past comments as proof that someone like this is indeed demented and that when a comment such as Veterns and all soldiers needs to die, this is from someone that needs to be locked up before they go postal. Rational people just don’t talk like this, even over the internet. You saw what Kulafarmer said above, he wants to smash something when these idiotic comments about all boomer generations need to die. It is not fair that he or others have to feel this way from some ranting lunatic without someone pointing out just how totally nuts these comments are from someone that is totally cracked inside the head. If not me, then someone will respond and keep the audience going. At least poiting out what a psychotic this is, it helps others realize that someone like this desperately needs mental help.

                • BJ

                  Spot on Jibo

                • Be informed

                  @ BJ. I do indeed get what you are saying about fantasy of the internet. I also understand about the fantasy life of video games in which these psychos that go into a school and open fire is that reason of losing touch with reality through the internet or video games. You look at some of these recent shootings, and it is absolutely not the gun laws as these anti-gunners try to demonize guns into. They are the result of people like the forementioned squirrel bait that start to see a world that is not there and a real world that must be adjusted to the world they preach and talk about on the internet.

                  There are trolls and shrills that enjoy people’s reactions and are usually harmless and just an annoyance. Then there are the real bona fide individuals that are dangerous maniacs. For a while I really thought that a couple of other real trolls might be in this category, but it showed this was not the case. This character gets too upset about certain topics. A troll as the link you gave me is far more interested in being like a screamin macaw bird desiring attention than someone that legitimately is extremely angry and hateful towards much and everything.

                  Someone can play this off as bluster and talk, but it is more than this. People on the internet and talk shows just don’t go on these rants about killing off masses of people. People talk about how they want SHTF to occur to rid the world of evil, they want God to punish those that are wicked, etc. This character takes this way beyond that and becomes TOO enraged about certain subjects, in fact many subjects. I grant you this could be just venting, but someone with this much hate it affects the mind. Hate will and does cause the brain to snap as it is only a muscle that can take so much.

                  I ask you this, what if I am right and this person is totally nuts? Don’t you think that someone like this needs to be locked up before they act on this mental warped impulses? I am so sick and tired of these lunatics going in and shooting a bunch of innocent people, ruining hundreds of families all because they are psychopaths and people failed to see this in time. Then these anti-gunners seize on everyone of these opportunities to try to destroy the 2nd Amendment. Just like when I attempt to forewarm people about coming major earthquakes based on precursor outer plate boundary quakes, I am trying to forewarn people about this nut so maybe someone that can help prevent this psycho in the final meltdown stages. Someone will know of him outside thge internet and see these rantings and get him the mental help he so desperately needs.

                  At very least show the many people that are stressed out by these horrible comments such as Canadian Vet that is really going through rough times, that this is rantings of a deranged mind and brain and to not take it so deeply to heart. It is just someone that needs to be with a qualified psychiatrist to talk over what is causing them to think these awful thoughts of genocide of an entire population based on age and people dying on mass scales. I again BJ pose the question to you, WHAT IF this really is your next psycho gone over the edge massacre major breaking news story and by addressing this and seeing it before it happened many, many people could be saved from another one of these tragedies?

        • Night Breaker

          Brandon,
          Good basic primer article for people just discovering long distance shooting , you gave them the tools need to lead them in the right direction for further information.

          Bench rest shooting and varmint shooting can really help develop the skills needed to successfully become proficient. Practise makes perfect getting solid equipment for the task is important , probably the most accurate rifle I have is a lowly Ruger 1v in .223 mounted with a Leupold 4.5 x14 mildot scope with a kill flash objective filter and butler creek scope covers , shoots sub minuet of angle all day long it has accounted for many ground hogs, it’s twin in 7 mm weatherby mag with an old unertl scope, flat shooting knockdown round ( I handload for this one it has never tasted factory ammo) excels at long range silhouette shooting.
          Sometimes the newest tactikool semiauto rifle can be bested by older tech, in the end it’s the quality of the shooter that counts.
          Recently I have been playing around with an accurized PTR 91 results are encouraging.

          That’s a really nice rig you have a good balanced looking system.
          keep writing your articles the more people we get into the shooting sports the more it works into our favor.

          keep them in the 10 ring

          Semper Fi 8541

      • 1braveheart

        listen to the pot calling the kettle black! eisen, you don’t have a leg to stand on so just clam up and go away.

      • hammerhead

        wow , eisen , new low for comments.
        I dont wish the same fate for you or your family.
        I just aint that mean . hate will consume you .
        check yourself dude , cause your wreckin yourself .

      • Jim in Va.

        Eisen: who made you the ethics police? If you could stop a predator at 500 yards to protect your family why would you wait for them to get closer. They aren’t cowards, they are force multipliers to a military unit. you want to play nice you’ll die first. Quit judging everybody to your perverted code of honor. In a SHTF situation everything goes out the window…family and friends come first.

        • Eisenkreuz

          You moron, the government doesnt go away in SHTF it clamps down harder. You wont have the chance for all this rambo shit and if you do youre going to jail for murder.

          Yes I agree you always engage the enemy at the furthest distance youre sure you can eliminate them at. But if you miss, they will come for you. Its wiser never to engage.

      • Shi thead

        I see posts by Rambo’s little brother, Dildo.

      • BJ

        This is not the real everyday Eisenkreuz, it is someone posting under his name. It easy to see when you look at the post and read it.

        • Be informed

          @ BJ. So the rant about these people’s children should be in the crosshairs of these ultimate battle rifles is not real? I know you are trying to be fair and this is admirable, but I and others have heard the same lunatic rantings for more than a few months now. These are the same insane wordings used in countless other comments about people deserving to die. Sane people just don’t wish all people born in the boomer generation to rapidly die off. This is nothing but wishing for genocide of a group of people based on their age. That is totally nuts.

          Other people become upset and talk violent about protecting themselves, their families, and their country, but I have not even seen NC Joker make a comment like this that people’s children deserve to die because of the parents. This is evil and demented. People are getting tired of hearing this insanity and why they collapse these comments. It is ashame that people with children have to hear this deranged talk.

          • BJ

            The post looked more rational and the grammar and punctuation was more in line with a different style than E’s normal style. And I seen last week where it was totally obvious someone else was posting under E’s name…I think it is happening again. Probably someone who hardly ever posts and sees the reactions of people at E’s post(this is how he/it is beating you, your constant reaction and attention you give him/it)and is having fun with it.

          • BJ

            You and some others are taking things and people on here way too personal, save that for real life with face to face individuals. There are only two on here that I would love to meet and hang out with on a regular basis, Gods creation and Netranger. One I have actually texted and talked to on the phone several times the last two years….the other is more recluse and private. In other words, my unsolicited advice to you would be to back off, take a break and don’t take things so personal and realize the people in your life that are not on the internet are worth emotional energy…those online are not. I used to be real bad about posting and sitting online and this site was one of them. I mostly just read now and dont post as much as I did three years ago when I first found this place. Of course Mac ruining the posting with this BS terrible format helped as well…..it sucks. It takes forever to go through and find your posts to look for replies or find others. He should of went with a “quote” button for people that want to respond directly to another poster…..much better….this was sucks and is ridiculous.

            • Be informed

              @ BJ. Maybe you could send Mac some ideas on better improving the site, you know perhaps some examples of other sites to make a foundation on. I don’t know if someone else is fooling aroun here or not, this is something that someone might be able to fix by posting under another name. Whomever is posting comments about the death of the boomer generation, having children in the sights of rifles because of their parents, wanting genocide of masses of people that are categorized into a certain group such as all veterns and American soldiers and other whacked out rantings is a very sick person in desperate need of mental help.

              Again, if you can think of anything that would make our commentting process any better please tell Mac, there is always room for improvement. I don’t like that the previous 10 comments was deleted from the site. I enjoyed seeing comments that were recently posted, especially from past articles that practically no one reads much anymore.

          • Jibo

            Be Informed, if you think train wrecks rants are truly bonafide threats to anybody, then it’s your DUTY to report that to the proper authority concerned, NOT Mac Slavo or the other readers on this site,PERIOD. If you’re not willing to do this, than you’re simply making my earlier case about being the big reason he returns here.

      • 1braveheart

        Eisen, f#$% you!

    23. Eisenkreuz

      Bought some new filter masks last night. Guess where they were made? Bwahahaha.

    24. AgDr

      Off topic
      News from the Eastern Front.
      Heard from a good source. Chinese avoided default by giving their citizens a haircut straight from their bank accounts. I guess tradiation long-hair styles are out of fashion!?! Party promised 9.6% interest up on repayment. Also, Chinese New Year is now in full celebration; very unlike most years, this year’s celbration music is now mostly “Mao period” and military in content.
      Peace…(and keep your head down)!!!

    25. Eisenkreuz

      What the hell would you be doing in a currency crisis dressed in camo shooting carrying a rifle shooting at people a few hundred yards away. With the first shot you give you position. 80 year old grandmother with break action .410 can shoot you in the back and kill you in SHTF. You idiots need to go back to SELCOs blog and study carefully what he is telling you. Not listening to this Brandon Smith idiot.

      You bunch of duty honor country shit for brains. The world is not going to end, the government is not going to go away, the pigs and blue helmets are not the good guys, and you still have to go to work. Nobody cares about Molan Labe. If you make ripples in the water you will be removed. Idea should be low profile, boring and uninteresting. If the make trouble they will get you sooner or later no matter how good your rifle is. SHTF isnt a scout camping trip. You need to dress and act just like everyone else but with a pistol and a vest hidden on you. If you shoot someone you are going to jail. Period. There is almost never a good reason to leave your house in SHTF. This stupid rambo shit will get you killed if you dont change your mentality.

      The only time this sniping crap is legit is if an army of bikers comes looting and killing every house on your block. That will only happen in the movies.

      • Kulafarmer

        A ten year old with a box cutter can kill a man

      • dub

        You have some valid points. Just take it easy.

    26. Barn Cat

      It’s a nice read but it won’t be reality for very many people. Being a sniper means you don’t have a home to defend. It also means you have a vantage point where you can see from a thousand yards but not be seen by your potential target. Your target has to conveniently show up within a narrow field of view unless you’re going to them. It’s also a bit ridiculous to talk about hitting a target from a thousand yards unless you’ve fired thousands of rounds from a sniper rifle or went to sniper school. I live in a small town. I barely have a hundred yard unobstructed view from my house. Sure, I could go up in my attic and fire from one of the attic vents but how likely is it that a hostile target will show right from where I’m looking?

      • Any Mouse

        I dunno BC, I don’t think that having to be a sniper would mean homelessness. Many folks in more rural settings have much further than the 100 or so yards that you do. For me it boils down to doing the best with the situation you’re in.

        • Mcdave

          The more complete your tool kit, the better the odds of success.

      • .02

        Come out here to the wheat fields and you can shoot as far as you can see and then further with good optics. I had 2 guns zeroed to different ranges- 223 to 400 yards and the 308 set dead center @ 500. Finally sold that Savage model 10 308 with the heavy extra barrel as it was just to heavy to pack around. My Remington model 788 in 308 is soooo sweet with the short 18 inch barrel and the thumb hole stock. A pleasure to carry and I can still hit out to 400. I put a Zeiss with the rapid z 600 on the 223 with 53 grain vmax zeroed 1 and 1/2 inches high @ 100 and a range finder I am good to go out to 650 on coyote. The Zeiss with the radip Z ballistic reticles are way way WAY NICE. I cant believe I lived this long without one.

      • JayJay

        Barn Cat–great suggestion. Our attic dormers is a great vantage watch point…in the day time and only on one side of the house.
        Note to self: work on that.

    27. Eisenkreuz

      For all you numbnuts who think youre going to take on the government, youre gonna have a rude awakening. That is unwinable. What youre actually going to do is bow down and comply and leave yourself at the mercy of TPTB. If you dont like being a slave, thank the baby boomers that created the system.

      Let me hear your fantasies and your Molan Labe. I love you keyboard warriors. You guys probly cant even run a mile.

      • .02

        oh yes our gov is so good @ fighting a guerrilla war.. heck Vietnam was such a cake walk. Remember, the American soldier is going to have to kill grandma on the officer’s orders.. might be a hard sell for the gov.

      • 1braveheart

        eisen, how the f#$% do you know what any of us will do when TSHTF? What will YOU do when TSHTF? I’m going to stand up and fight period! I’m not bowing down to any evil government and I’m damned sure not bowing down to a sodomite like you either.

        • Eisenkreuz

          The SHTF scenario you visualize exists only in the movies.

        • BJ

          you guys make fools of yourselves for even engaging E or giving any of his posts the slightest bit of attention. E accomplishes the mission cause you failed.

      • Jim in Va.

        Here we go with your crap again know it all. I’d run a mile just to kick your ass! go look in the mirror we don’t need you to do anyone else’s thinking!

      • Kulafarmer

        Yea, thats why they are kickin ass ant takin names from all them rag heads in sandals up there in Ag

      • Mountain Trekker

        Why run a mile, if you can let your rifle do the talking. Trekker Out.

    28. Eisenkreuz

      Do you understand the difference between concealment and cover? Concealment means youre in your cute little Ghillie suit but soccer mom can still pepper your position with a shotgun and you die. Cover means youre behind something capable of stopping bullets.

      9mm will go through a car. Hiding behind cars is not cover (its better than nothing but you need to move).

      At least be with a buddy. I fire, you move. You fire, I move. And you get the hell behind closed doors. You dont belong outside during SHTF.

      • Night Breaker

        Looks like somebody’s been reading Max V’s and John Mosby’s web site.
        Keep it up eisn you might just learn something yet.

        Semper Fi 8541

        • Eisenkreuz

          I havent read either of those two web sites.

      • Mountain Trekker

        Eisenkraut why get behind closed doors? They’re concealment not cover! Trekker Out.

      • Shi thead

        I’ve always heard snipers generally have a short life expectancy.

    29. wncmountainboy

      I’m of the mindset that all survival is local. What works from someone out west, for example usually won’t work much of anywhere else. The idea of “sniping” is almost laughable here. I’ve been deer hunting these mountains for years and the farthest shot I’ve ever taken an animal from is about 80 yards. Even in the river valleys, between rolling hillsides and heavy brush and woodline, you might be lucky to find a 300 yd. shot. I say use your brains people and understand intimately your local surroundings. When the shtf I don’t see myself packing up to head to the Midwest or rocky mtn states simply for the opportunity to fling lead several hundred yards! I’ve kept my arsenal simple: NATO caliber weapons-m4 type 5.56, 7.62×51 bolt gun, 12 ga pump, and .22 lr. I have other various calibers but may use them for barter if need be.
      Think local and live.

    30. ed

      Simo was an expert at concealment. I read somewhere that he would eat snow so his breath would not condensate giving away his position. I don’t think this would help a whole lot against an organized, well trained, and well equipped military/police.
      Where I live in the south 1000 yard shots at stationary targets will likely never happen. Just because of the topography. Even 500 yards would be rare. Which puts 99.9% of the targets within reach of a good deer rifle and I know a lot of rednecks who can reach out and touch someone at that distance.
      If you Really know your terrain, know your equipment, know your capabilities and limitations then and only then should you attempt sniping at an opposing force. Unless you’re on a suicide mission.
      If you don’t believe me try low crawling. Get on your stomach and try low crawling in your living room or some place where you won’t look too stupid. Do it as long as you can. Feel the pain in your lower back and shoulders? And no you can not roll over and stretch it out. Now add whatever gear you think you’ll need. And if you think you will post up and wait, try to stay awake all day or night with little or no movement. Today is Friday so it might be a good time to practice. If you’re a hunter you know already what I mean except the animal you’re hunting can kill you at the same distance. Keep it real folks, if a warlike event does happen you better know your limitations. And prepare accordingly.
      Fairly close up and personal is what most of us will encounter if the SHTF and that’s what should be prepared for.
      Peace all.
      Because peace beats the hell out of war.

      • Frank Thoughts

        Agree: the physical and mental limitations are enormous. People are not thinking about the physical strength required (not steroid-monster, thick-neck strength, but wiry hard-muscle strength), the discipline required to be in a hide and be bitten by swarms of bugs, to be very cold and damp, to lie there in the dark and stay awake and not be scared or fall asleep or have hypothermia (did this once and had the crap beaten out of me: that’s what they do in the military to make sure you learn never to fall asleep), to go through all of that and still remain calm enough and focused enough to go through all the stages of lining up and executing the shot. Trust me: very few human beings can do that: very few.

      • Warchild Dammit

        Ed,tried the low crawl while out deer hunting this season.I was just checking a area and left pack/bow hanging from a tree.Tried low crawling in snow,what I found out was I need much better outer shell if I am gonna low crawl in the snow!I also want to practice things like rolling out of a prone position before getting up with a rifle.That said,will be doing it starting with a broom handle(and yes,realize will look like a idiot!)but obviously in woods were hopefully no one comes along !

      • JohnFornaro

        “Peace all. Because peace beats the hell out of war.”

        Ed rox. I don’t want the S2HTF. I want peace. Still, I’m not in charge.

        I’m reasonably fit for a sixty year old geezer. But I have tried some of the stuff Ed mentions. The Fornaro Compound is about 900 feet long. I tried belly crawling, on a nice warm summer day, with comfy jeans, sneakers, and my AR, thru our woods, from one end of the property to another. It was not easy trying to be quiet, getting over or thru fallen pines, not snagging the rifle, pretending every now and then to set up in a prone aiming position. It was also tiring.

        Another thing I have done is load up a back pack with twenty or thirty pounds of gear, grab the AR and run three hundred or five hundred yards across a neighboring farmer’s field. It took a good fifteen minutes for my body to calm down, assuming that I could have made the dash without being seen.

        **********************************

        Couple of observations. 22 is still hard to come by, but is also cheaper than anything else to shoot regularly, even at today’s prices. We’ve all heard anecdotal stories of hunting deer with 22; seems like one might be forced to attempt this in some scenarios. Deer will be hunted fast, along with cattle, as another poster pointed out. The two to three year out scenario is the scariest to contemplate, and requires gardening, I would think.

        I think that a sniper wolf pack of two teams of five or so individuals from a community, armed with whatever, including 22’s, could dissuade a much larger group of disorganized predators who were roaming about raiding peaceful survivor communities. Medical assistance would be limited; 22 head, stomach, and groin shots might not have immediate put down results, but would have a sufficient debilitating effect as the week went on.

        The hunt goes on during the nite, and into the next few days. If your little rag tag team could get five ragged shots in the first encounter, maybe they could bolt cover. Your second group of five, still under cover, might be able to harrass the chasers, while the first group re-covers.

        This scenario supposes a pretty large community, and the two wolf packs would have to operate around the perimeter of that community. It’s an easy scenario to type out; dunno how it would actually play out in a real world circumstance.

        Above thread, someone commented on the author’s publicity foto, where he wasn’t camo’d up. Sheesh. It was a publicity foto, not a concealment foto.

        The thousand yard scenario will be a rare one, and probably not worth preparing for. Personally, I can put nineteen out of twenty in a 2″ circle at 100 yards; maybe five out of twenty in a 10″ circle at 300 yards. I’d think that would be sufficient for anybody; it’s certainly going to have to do for me. I’m thinking that most of the posters around here are already as qualified as they need to be.

        I think the moral of the article is the advice to contemplate and improve one’s own mental attitudes, with the implication being that such an improved mental attitude would have pragmatic application in other areas of one’s survival strategy.

    31. Aeneas

      Mixed emotions reading this article. I’m not that good of a shot, so anything info that might help me bag some food or defend in a post event scenario is appreciated! The revelation of this type info however, scares me. I suspect those who don’t plan on being supportive of mankind’s efforts to establish some civility in a post event scenario, may use this information offensively. And I don’t want to have to worry about getting my ass shot off during my morning constitutional! Guess I have to worry about that now. (this site is always teaching me something). So..how about some counter-sniper info? OPSEC if you fear / know a sniper is close?

      • .02

        Cant shoot? Traps.. learn to set snares and deadfall traps with spears attached. Look on youtube to get the info, but be careful the deadfall/spear setup can be dangerous to set.

      • JayJay

        It’s 1pm. Imagine a normal sized football stadium. In this stadium you are sitting on the seat at the very top of the stadium.
        To make things more interesting, imagine the stadium is completely water-tight.

        The question is, if a drop of water is added to the stadium and then one minute later it doubles in size to two drops, and then one minute after that it doubles again to 4 drops, and so on.. doubling in size every minute, how much time do you have to leave your seat and get out of the stadium before the water reaches your seat at the very top?

        Think about it for a moment. Is it hours, days, weeks, months? 😉
        The first drop of water lands right in the middle of the field, at 1pm.

        You have exactly until 1:49pm. It takes less than 50 minutes to fill a whole football stadium with water!

        But it gets better: At what time do you think the football stadium is still 93% empty? Take a guess.

        The answer: At 1:45pm. So, you sit and watch the drop growing, and after 45 minutes all you see is the playing field covered with water. And then, within four more minutes, the water fills the whole stadium.

        This means that you THINK you are safe because it seems that you have plenty of time left, whereas due to the It’s 1pm. Imagine a normal sized football stadium. In this stadium you are sitting on the seat at the very top of the stadium, with the best overview of the whole stadium.

        To make things more interesting, imagine the stadium is completely water-tight.

        The question is, if a drop of water is added to the stadium and then one minute later it doubles in size to two drops, and then one minute after that it doubles again to 4 drops, and so on.. doubling in size every minute, how much time do you have to leave your seat and get out of the stadium before the water reaches your seat at the very top?

        Think about it for a moment. Is it hours, days, weeks, months?

        The first drop of water lands right in the middle of the field, at 1pm.

        You have exactly until 1:49pm. It takes less than 50 minutes to fill a whole football stadium with water! This is impressive!

        But it gets better:
        At what time do you think the football stadium is still 93% empty? Take a guess.

        The answer: At 1:45pm. So, you sit and watch the drop growing, and after 45 minutes all you see is the playing field covered with water. And then, within four more minutes, the water fills the whole stadium.

        This means that you think you are safe because it seems that you have plenty of time left, whereas due to the exponential growth you really have to take immediate action if you want to have any chance of getting out of this situation.

        Think about that… let it sink in…
        Prepare, pray, and prepare more.

        • VaFarmBoy

          J, that’s very exponential of you…

        • Shi thead

          Good cut & paste job.

    32. Eisenkreuz

      http://www.thedailysheeple.com/over-300-us-drone-strikes-in-pakistan-since-2006-leaked-official-data_012014

      2371 people murdered by US drones since 2006.

      Duty honor country. They hate our freedom and our liberty. Fighting for our rights. Support our troops. Gets your ribbons now. Step right up, step right up. Get your lone survivor tickets here. Heroic SEALs invade peoples countries. Theyre badasses, you know. Chris Kyle wishes he could have killed more. The greatest show on Earth. Why would anyone hate the good ol US of A. Toby Keith: “we’ll put a boot in your ass, its the amerikkkan way”. Marcus Luttrell: we did our jobs. Liberal weenies dont support the military. Ill kick your ass. The best part of the movie was watching SEALs get killed. Big war. Big military. 700 bases in 140 countries. We fly over Chinas airspace. Lets get in another war. Honor amerikkkas heros at the shit of the union.

    33. Eisenkreuz

      Does anybody know if Chris Kyle’s whore paid Jesse Ventura for that bullshit story about Kyle punching him? What a bullshitter. Treating PTSD at a rifle range. What a fucktard.

      • 1braveheart

        If someone would take out eisen, I would buy that person a steak dinner.

      • Jim in Va.

        Eisen; how much are you being paid to troll this site? we are so glad you have the answer to everything. Why don’t you start a new religion since you have all the answers.

    34. Maudy Frickett

      It’s starting. 2.5 earthquake in New Madrid, Mo. Shallow. Doom. Double Doom!

      • Norse Prepper

        Maudy, that is my reason for rechecking the board this morning is the New Madrid quake. Be Informed, any thoughts?

        • Be informed

          @ Norse Prepper. Quite common anything under a 3 pointer on the New Madrid. Watch for the Mid Atlantic Ridge between 14 and 20 degrees north as a warning, anything over 5.5 is an indication, and anything over 6.5 here, look out.

          • Norse Prepper

            Thanks BI!

    35. slingshot

      Better make the first shot count, cause soon after a bunch of stuff will be coming at you.

      The most you can do is make sure your iron sights and scopes are on the mark.

      • VRF

        Its called shoot and scoot..
        you don’t lay down any lead and sit back to watch the fall out..its sight– pull– and haul ass

        • Sgt. Dale

          VRF.
          10/4 on that !!!
          Sgt.

        • VaFarmBoy

          But if you’re good enough, you can put two down range on separate targets before the sound of the first report. And you would have already had a couple of hides prepared to fire on your first position.

    36. KY Mom

      Second round of food stamps said to be coming soon. I believe food banks in many areas will be overwhelmed.

      $8 Billion decrease in SNAP benefit (food stamps) in Farm Bill

      The Farm Bill has passed in the House of Representatives and is expected to pass in the Senate shortly.

      “…around 850,000 low-income households will now lose about $90 in monthly SNAP benefits.”

      The effects of this cut are said to be “concentrated in 15 states and the District of Columbia and would equate to about 34 lost meals per month for impacted households.”

      “The states impacted most include California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.”

      -The Examiner

        • BJ

          yeah a fucking trillion dollar farm bill full of mostly pork…these bastards don’t learn and the american people as a whole are too stupid and incompetent to stand together and do the right thing. Which at this point, is to execute all those who commit theft and treason against the american people and the constitution.

      • .02

        I really think it might be time to move to Texas. Maybe Arizona?

      • JayJay

        But, I bet you a tray of my chocolate chip cookies they still have cable, or smoke, or have the latest smartphone.
        How many here sacrifice to prep???
        Just saying.

      • Shi thead

        Boo Hoo Hoo! They’ll be able to afford fewer chips and single serving bottles of juice bought at convience store prices. Sorry, but I’m only a little sorry about the cut off of extended UI payments, too. How long should I pay people to sit home? Every dollar I pay for these things is another dollar I don’t get to spend on MY family.

    37. Backdraft

      This is an excellent article. Snipers are essentially a force multiplier!

      Scopes, or at least the best ones are as the author says… expensive. I have found great success out to 1000 yds. using a Remington 700 in .308. I did have some work done on it to aid in making shots at that distance for a .308. For the scope, I use a Bushnell 3200 Elite 10×40 fixed power with a MilDot reticle. I bought my 2nd one 2 weeks ago from MidwayUSA for $189 plus shipping. This is an excellent scope for the money if you are on a tight budget. The light transmission is super and the glass and coating quality are great. If you use a variable power scope, the reticle has to be in the Front Focal Plane to achieve any accuracy. Otherwise, if you zero at 100 yds., then zoom out to shoot, the reticle changes in relation to the target. However, a reticle in the FFP adds to the cost of a scope significantly. Also, for a MilDot reticle, make sure the windage & elevation caps are marked in mils vs. MOA. You can convert MOA to MILS but if your caps are in MILS no conversion is necessary.

      A MilDot Master is a slide rule type tool available for computing range, etc…. very valuable.

      http://www.snipershide.com
      Here’s an excellent website on all things related.

      As already pointed out, know your equipment and your personal limitations.

      Be safe.

    38. wrong

      Stock Market is Crashing!!!!!

      Run For Your Lives!!!!

      • PO'd Patriot

        GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

      • Shi thead

        AHHHHH! there’s a lobster on the loose!

    39. 82nd airborne.

      Now everyone will be a sniper. If you deer hunt or any other game by that matter you are not a fuckin sniper don’t give advice you have no idea what the hell your talking about. It takes many many hours of training shooting and so on under a trained eye. Not a couple of hours at a range. Believe me I know.

      • Eisenkreuz

        Thats great. What the hell would a sniper be doing in an economic collapse? You goonies crack me up.

        • 1braveheart

          eisen, what are you doing still coming around here? You need to go away.

          • Eisenkreuz

            Its not going to happen. So just learn to love me.

            • JohnFornaro

              Yeah, Eisenkreuz has a bit of an attitude. I did notice that the question about what is a sniper doing in an economic collapse has not been answered, nor is it likely to be answered. Hakuna metata.

        • Jim in Va.

          those snipers would be looking for you since you dissed them eisen. feel the hair raise on the back of your neck?

          • Eisenkreuz

            If you shoot someone you go to jail.

            • BabyBoomerssuck

              In a crisis like the one envisioned, probably not. You may become aquainted with the close range marksmanship techniques of a firing squad.

      • Sgt. Dale

        82Nd.
        I agree sniper is also a mind set that a lot people can’t obtain.
        I can’t tell you how many hours I have trained. How many pushup I did because I made a mistake.
        You are right a deer hunter or varmint hunter doesn’t make you a sniper.
        If you were in the 82nd. Thanks for your service!!!
        Sgt.

        • airborne319

          Yes i was and thank you.

      • dub

        Please! Not another big mouth airborne ranger. Did you forget the American Revolution? A lot of well trained British troops failed.

        • 82nd airborne

          Yes but im not a big mouth. Just stating facts. Have a problem with that.

    40. Trailer Park Investor

      I knew a Viet Nam sniper and he told me he would take sometimes 2 and 3 days crawling on his belly in a “gilly” suite craping and peeing himself just to do a painfully slow (so slow if you looked back 10 minutes later you could not tell his bush had moved at all) Just to get into position to make a shot.
      He said once he had a shot but it was through a prostitute who was on his lap doing the wild thing (with a VC General) at the time and he would have to kill her to kill him. HE TOOK THE SHOT, got em both.

      • .02

        Sounds like a Hathcock wanabe

      • Mountain Trekker

        TPI this sound like one of Eisenkrauts alter ego war stories. Trekker Out.

      • BabyBoomerssuck

        Horshshit

    41. slingshot

      Another banker commits suicide.

      Keep them coming!

      • wrong

        I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not but I love to see the markets drop.

        It just makes me smile.

        🙂

      • Barn Cat

        No, they’re murders. They have no reason to commit suicide. It doesn’t matter what they do. They’ll never be arrested for their crimes. The banksters are tying up loose ends. Expect it to continue.

        • JayJay

          Barn Cat–maybe it’s payback vigilante style!!!

    42. Sgt. Dale

      I read this on Quayle’s site yesterday.
      Very good article. I was hoping it would show up here.
      It make good points about sniping outher that YOU HAD BETTER BE IN VERY GOOD SHAPE.
      What I learned from the FBI was that you need two for a sniper team, and because this whole thing will be new to people, so a team is what you want to have. Thus the name Sniper Observer team. One can be on his rifle and other on a spotting scope. Then they can switch off.
      notice I said his rifle. Your snipe should get used to his rifle. Yes he should shoot the other guys rifle to get to know it, but his rifle to him is primary.
      The way I was trained was a head shot at or under 100 yards. When the SHTF 100 yards is better to make sure you get at KIll shot. But I a SHTF times you will want to be 100 yards plus. I believe with what I have learned in the last 25+ years of being a sniper is you need to be around 200 to 300 yards away. This will give cover to move out to a different shooting location or just to get out of the area. In a wooded area at that distanced you can’t be seen.
      308 is enough firearm for sniping in wooded area. This caliber will be light enough to shoot and scoot in a wooded area, and be big enough to take out the Zombies/Leaches.
      Now for the big stuff. 300 Win Mag 7mm Rem Mag, 338 or the 50 Cal. For most of us preppers the 300 and the 7mm will be the way to go because of the availability the ammo and COST of the larger caliber rifles.
      I shot my 308’s at ranges form 100 to 400 yards and my 300 Win Mag form 100 to 600 yards.
      Remember when I said I was train to take head shots. When TSHTF you will be aiming at center mass just like you do when you are shooting at targets/or bad guys/gals with your handguns and shotguns.
      PRATICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and BREATH, BREATH, BREATH. And pray to God you never have to do it.
      AIM SMALL MISS SMALL!!!
      Sgt.

      • MXLord327

        I love my Winchester Model 70 .300 Win Mag.

        • .02

          I can see why.. nice piece.. does it have the V and bead open sights?

      • BB Stacker

        Good points Sgt Dale. An effective sniper team needs a very good spotter/observer. Making wind and DOPE calls is more difficult than actually placing a round on target. Like I said in a earlier article, this takes alot of practice. And not just on the nice warm calm days. I still make bad wind calls frequently and I practice regularly.

        Another thing that a lot of new folks do is spec out a sniper rifle that is actually a target/benchrest rifle. Big difference in my book. I will not be lugging around a 28 inch barreled bolt rifle that weighs North of 15 pounds. I have a couple of target rifles myself. They go from the truck to the shooting bench. No humping of those for very long for this ole boy. You will be wishing for your 7 pound Ruger American with the 2-7 scope in a second.

        • Sgt. Dale

          BB
          VERY GOOD POINTS.
          Sgt.

      • BabyBoomerssuck

        Don’t forget, SGTDALE is a jackbooted thug.

        • 1braveheart

          Babyboomerssuck, f#$% you! You shut your f#$%in face about Sgt. Dale! You don’t know a damned thing about him. He’s one of US, NOT one of THEM. Plus, any one of us ‘babyboomers’ can kick your ass.

    43. Maudy Frickett

      If the sniper isn’t using a sound suppressor, how can you tell how far away he is? Every supersonic bullet makes two sounds. One sound when it is fired and one sound as it breaks the sound barrier. Count the time between the two sounds in seconds. 3 seconds equals about 300 yards. 4 seconds equals 400 yards, etc. Problem with this is, if everyone is shooting or there is too much ambient noise, you won’t be able to determine which noise is which. If you can determine the distance of one sniper and the direction the bullet came from, you’re at the starting point to defeat the sniper, or die, whichever comes first. Any comments or improvements are welcome.

      • Kulafarmer

        Like the sign in the local gun shop reads,,,

        If you heard my shot you werent the target!

      • Sgt. Dale

        M.F.
        There are 3 sounds you forgot the THUD when it hits.
        A good sniper won’t be where he shot from when you get to 3 sec. he or she will be on the move. (one of the best snipers in Nam was female.) If you have a couple of people with auto’s or semi auto’s just spray an area and hope you hit something. TAKE COVER
        Most anti snipe work is done in city settings. You can do it in the wood area but it is more likely done in the cities.
        A.S.M.S.
        Sgt.

      • JohnFornaro

        To Maudy Fricket:

        It’s my understanding that some of our guys’ units have acoustic equipment capable of sorting out the sounds of the battlefield. There is an incredible amount of computer power available in the field.

        At some point, I’m sure those systems are overwhelmed, such as in a firefight. In a limited fire engagement, they can give direction and distance info to our snipers, who then scan the appropriate hillside or whatever, in order to get a visual on the other sniper teams.

        I don’t think the other team has this acoustic equipment. I have no idea if the chinese have it or have already stolen our tech. Such a setup would only be available to a pretty well trained team, probably, but not necessarily mil or ex-mil.

        I could imagine a private community of free individuals with a huge security perimeter patrolled by sniper wolf packs. I could also imagine a bilderberg type community set up the same way. If the ‘doom on you’ folks are correct in their predictions of emminent collapse, these communities should have been set up as of yesterday.

    44. Frank Thoughts

      Depending on who you are up against (random civilians or professional military) will also make a huge difference in your success at sniping. Random civilians gives you a massive advantage since most would not have a clue what is happening; but watch out if you are up against professional military.

      Being able to bug out after taking the shot is also a big part of the success of sniping. The latest technologies modern militaries have (especially the US) mean you won’t have much time to get away. Hate to say it again, but this means being physically up for the bug out. You better be able to run like a mo-fo for a long distance over difficult terrain with all your kit. Very few people can do this without spraining an ankle, falling down so many times they are seriously hurt. In short, sniping is not for amateurs and is a highly disciplined science and art and is why professional militaries spend a lot of money and time on it.

      • Kulafarmer

        cause that has made such a big difference in Afganistan and Iraq…
        am just sayin.

        • Barn Cat

          We won’t be playing by the rules that were forced on the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan. But the military here during martial law won’t be playing by those rules either.

    45. Logicrazy

      My personal record is a neck shot on a doe at 1200 yards, if I can see it I can shoot it. I can also point shoot bayer asprin with a bb gun. Both eyes open, close far it does not matter. I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, well you get the picture….

      • Sgt. Dale

        LOG
        Thank God for your gift. I hope you never have to use it either.
        You do realize that when it comes to shooting game and shooting at a person is two different worlds. I’m only going to use my skills to protect Me and mine.
        A.S.M.S.
        Sgt.

        • 1braveheart

          Sgt. Dale, Happy Birthday!

          • Slingshot

            SGT Dale.

            Happy Birthday.

            • Sgt. Dale

              1Brave and Sling:
              Thanks guys.
              I’m now 60 and I feel like I’m 40.
              I just don’t know when I’ll slow down. I hope I never will.
              Again guys Thanks.
              Sgt.

              • Mountain Trekker

                Hey Sarg, went to the doctor the other day, and he told me I was in as good a shape as a man twice my age. I thought about it for a while, an then realized no one lives that long. Trekker Out.

              • Warchild Dammit!

                Oh no!Another in the 60 is the new 40 club!Happy B-day Sarge!

      • JohnFornaro

        Yep. I had a lotta fun on a friend’s ranch in Texas, pointing and shooting at coke cans with my BHP. Walk the shot out to the can, and it’s pretty easy to hit the can at 25-30 yards almost every time. The best part of the fun is that it’s totally safe. A coke can will never shoot back. That is a scientific fact.

        Me and my friends did another ‘training’ exercise once, modeled after Bond… James Bond. We made a course of full size paper grocery bags with a bit of sand in the bottom. Bags were 20-30 yards either side of the course, random spaces and distances. He had a PPK, and I my BHP. We ran thru the course, and nary a bag was hit.

        They didn’t have lasers back then. No doubt that would make a huge difference, as would a lot more training with iron sights. Again, science has proven that paper bags have never shot anyone.

    46. jimbo

      Great article and i love to learn about freedom loving patriots like Simo Hayha. Impressive stats.

    47. jimbo

      BTW great looking dog:)

      • JohnFornaro

        Roger that on the dog.

    48. KY Mom

      Small investors fight back urge to sell as stock markets drop worldwide

      “January’s global sell-off in stocks has left many small investors more puzzled than panicked — and unsure how to act.

      They’re holding on for now as prices continue to tumble, but their anxiety is mounting.”

      Market anxiety is increasing elsewhere too – China, Russia, Japan and Europe.

      “Small investors around the world were on edge even before growing signs of a slowdown in China and plunging emerging-market currencies sent stocks sharply lower this week.”

      Fox News

    49. VRF

      Hey lets Draft Chelsea Clinton for next US Ambassador to Libya.

      What difference would it make?

      • JohnFornaro

        Excellent suggestion about Chelsea. Already reposted to my FB page. Mucho thankso.

    50. Anonymous

      Brandon has just put a BIG target on his back.

      Stop bragging about your weaponry on electronic media…sigh…when will people learn?

      • Eisenkreuz

        None of us should be talking at all. But I love you people so much that I have tried to educate you and it has worked.

        • 1braveheart

          Eisen, there’s not a f#$%in thing you can teach any of us about anything, so just go away.

      • .02

        oh please. go to the gun sites forums and see how many people are talking guns. I bet in the us there are 3 billion gun posts a day. I BUY my guns from an online local gun site. No papers either. If you think the gov has the manpower to track us all down, good luck with that. In America damn near EVERY household has a gun of some kind. Behind every blade of grass there is a rifleman and that is not bullshit.

      • Brandon Smith

        @Anon

        Some of us have to stick our necks out to help relay information to others. I’m not worried that they know I have a *GASP* bolt action rifle, like millions of other Americans. What are you so afraid of? The NSA tracks the habits of every web user in the country anyway.

    51. Sgt. Dale

      Off Topic:
      Did the China banks or bank crash today?
      Just checking to see if I got my birthday present.
      Sgt.

      • Eisenkreuz

        Dont wish for SHTF.

        • 1braveheart

          I don’t wish for SHTF, but I DO wish for you to disappear. I don’t care how it happens, JUST DISAPPEAR.

      • KY Mom

        Happy Birthday Sgt. Dale!!

        • Sgt. Dale

          KY
          Thanks
          Sgt.

          • Any Mouse

            Happy Birthday Sarge.

    52. Eisenkreuz

      Dont forget, if you have any enemies, they might take advantage of SHTF.

      • Jim in Va.

        that makes about 40 people on here looking for you in the near future Eisen

        • (D.C.)newbee

          I wonder if anyone has done any research on this joker E. He’s pissed a lot of people off and if I was a betting man I would put good money on that this page isn’t the only page he trolls on. I wonder if a dumb ass like him would use the same name for his facebook page or somewhere else on internet.

      • Mountain Trekker

        Eisenkraut be afraid, be very afraid!

      • BabyBoomerssuck

        Be kind to your enemies. After all, you made them.

    53. Old Vet

      “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”

      “Do not bite at the bait of pleasure till you know there is no hook beneath it?”

      “I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.”

      “An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens.”

      “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’, because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”

      Thomas Jefferson

    54. Maudy Frickett

      We have been advised to refrain from speaking openly on blogs. First we must understand that we are insignificant to TPTB. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody in power what we say. They ignore us. We are not a threat to them and they know it. Ever sent an e-mail? Ever called a friend and talked like this? Oops. They already could have known what you think if they wanted. Data mining. If I don’t know what I’m going to do tomorrow, I’ll just call the NSA and ask them. They know what we’re going to do before we do. GPS in your phone, tollway pass on your windshield, credit/bebit card usage, license plate readers, electric usage at your residence, water usage at your residence. They know where you are. We just have to be millions of little termites chewing on the governments legs.

      • Warchild Dammit

        Maudy,on the upside,your computer crashes just ask the nsa for backup of photos and any other important stuff!

    55. cyberrifles

      I had a .300 Win Mag rifle and and when fired lifted 6 inches off the rest and the muzzle blast was horrible. Talk about shock and awe. The .308 is much easier to hit with. I sold that rifle real fast. A hit with a .308 and better that a miss with a .50 caliber BMG.

    56. Joe S.

      My main rifle for SHTF is a Russian ww2 1943 Mosin Nagant PU sniper rifle,old but effective and reliable as heck. It can take body shots out to 800 yards,never tested it further. Plus you can still use iron sights on it as the scope is side mounted. That’s my rifle for when the ********** forces try to exterminate us.. Call me crazy but I still believe it is the AntiChrist behind all of this and he wants all Christians dead

    57. NetRanger

      …now, if you can just find that <1MOA gun. They're not all that easy to come by. Most people grade them with 3 shots, but, its easy to get lucky. 5 shot groups minimum and 10 shots for confirmation. I usually space them 2 mins apart depending on barrel weight.

      I find it odd that he's in the mountains. Won't be much use for snipers out there. Think 300yds max and urban environments, shoot-and-scoot.

      FSOTD Guns are easier to find than true <1MOA guns. I find that often FSOTD's can be had in extremely lite configurations and makes them easy to carry and they don't have to have long barrels. Its all in the applications. Not sure how many rifles I've set up for this type of operation but they number at least 20. I'm not successful every time. Many times the rifle just won't do it.

      Good luck!

      • Brandon Smith

        Montana is full of various terrain situations, and usually the enemy has to traverse a valley in order get to your mountains. With a 300 win mag or higher caliber, a valley becomes one long kill zone. Never assume that you will not need a long range platform just because your immediate environment has trees. Be ready for anything.

        • NetRanger

          I agree with your perception, however, I don’t think that during the (possible) coming revolution that you’ll find that valley to be a very target rich environment for the very reason you mention.

          Elk and Mule Deer might fall prey to that but little else. Unfortunately for us drones don’t wander around in Montana mountain valleys.

          • Brandon Smith

            Luckily, I don’t operate on the same assumptions you do. It would be bad for my health.

            Also, blackbaggers tend to wander wherever their targets go. If they want you, and you want them to wander into a valley, they’ll go there eventually.

            • BJ

              blackbagger ???

              • NetRanger

                BJ: A Blackbagger: they come in the night, throw a black bag over your head and haul you away.

                Brandon: Coming after you in the wilderness? That be just dumbness on their part. In that case, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have the equipment. Please don’t insult me by assuming that I have ANY assumptions. Assumptions are deadly in this game that is about to be thrust upon us.

        • Mountain Trekker

          Brandon what I like about the sniper senario, just as you, I live in the mountains and I can foresee a situation where choke points could be set up, and a sniper could be placed at a distance as a back up for men manning that check point. In more open country this may not be viable, but in much of the West in the mountains this skill could come in real handy. Trekker Out. Si vis pacem, para bellum!

    58. dmitry

      A very informative article about “sniper”. Thank you. I bookmarked this one for future reference.

      @Eisencoward:

      we will shoot you down!

    59. Tex

      Good article and I hope many take it to heart. I’ve, been a long range shooter since the early 80’s. I can consistently shoot 1 moa to 1200 yards with my .300 WinMag and very carefully made hand loads, so here’s my 2 cents.
      Setup is a Remington 700 action , Kreiger heavy barrel, HS Precision stock, Leupold Mark III 4.5 x 16 MilDot scope w/ Burris PosAlign Mount, & 3 pound Trigger on a 14 pond rifle. My only upgrade will be a Leupold Mark 4 @ 20x minimum.
      Pick a good rifle and learn to shoot from 100 to 300 yards and master those ranges, then move to further distances. Learn where your cold bore shot is and study your groups. My set up cold bore shot is .25 MOA high and left and next 4 are dead on at most temperatures. Best group is .462 inches @ 100 yards. As range increases every inconsistent thing you do adds to inaccuracy. At 1200 yards, your pulse can through a shot out of the group. Shoot a lot out to 300 yards and strive for consistency. Learn to embrace the recoil and soon you won’t even notice because you are so focused on “willing” that bullet to the target. Work on ranges to 300 yards so much that you know where every shot will go. How many rounds it takes depends on your level of commitment, concentration and consistency, but 500 rounds is a good starting point. Move out slowly after you have mastered the prior ranges.
      Typically the higher quality the rifle is , the easier it is to shoot long range. I recommend Savage rifles as a good starter rifle. Budget wise, allocate the same amount of money for the rifle, the scope, accessories and ammunition. $1000 will not suffice for a system, $4000 definitely will. If you can, spend more on Optics. To calculate the magnification, divide the range by 50 for ranges beyond 600 yards, thus use a 12x @ 600 yards & 20x @ 1000 yards. I can’t stress the importance of a MilDot reticle for precision work. Shoot at ranges until you can’t keep a group inside 12 inches – that’s the maximum effective range of your rifle/skill/conditions. Go ahead and grab a ruler and hold it to your chest. Aim center mass.
      Hand load your ammo. Get a single stage press and sort your brass and bullets by weight to the nearest 0.1 grain. and make batches of ammo. I mark my batches wit a colored Sharpie on the primer. I can look my ammo and 7 purple marks and 13 orange marks in a box of 20 for example. I know that the purple will have one zero and the orange another, slightly different zero. Progressive presses are expensive and finicky when striving for consistency.
      Even with a less expensive setup, you can master that rifle to it’s maximum effective range and use the ballistic advantage to your advantage.
      I’ve barely touched on the sub disciplines of shooting, but If, knowing what I know now, and I had to start from scratch, I would get a Savage 110 tactical rifle in .308 Win., a Leupold Mark 4 6.5 x 20x, 1000 rounds of Lake city match ammo, practice consistency in everything I do and aim center mass.