Max Velocity: Moving by Vehicle in High Threat Environments

by | Sep 26, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 137 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The intent of this article is to act as an introduction with some thoughts and primers for moving your family or group in high threat environments. It is not intended to give all the answers and that would be beyond the scope of this short piece. The type of environment envisioned is a post-collapse situation where there has been a breakdown in law and order. To clarify, this article is not concerned with the sort of ‘bug-out’ movement that families may conduct in response to a localized natural disaster, where you have to get in your car with some basic equipment and move out of the impacted area. Rather, this is directed at those who find they have to move locations after a significant societal collapse has happened.

    As background it is clear that to read the conventional prepper wisdom to survive any coming apocalypse you need to be in a fortified self-sustaining retreat somewhere out in the boonies, with three years of food in the basement and the ability to grow food plus animals. This is the gold standard; you will be really well positioned if that is where you are with your preparations. The reality for many is that they simply do not have that. For whatever reason, they may be in an urban or suburban environment. They may have nowhere else to realistically ‘bug out’ to. They may have a goal to achieve the retreat, but not be there yet, or have bug out land that is fairly basic and requires them to move to it following a collapse. So there may be a reality gap between those that have achieved the gold standard of location and preparations, and those that are not there yet. What I am really concerned about here is a collapse of society, the veritable ‘TEOTWAWKI’, where it all goes to chaos, the ‘SHTF’. For most of us who are not at the ‘gold standard’, we will be left to survive where we are, in our suburban homes or whatever applies to you. Now, it is true that some will be better set up than others. Reasons include location, such as an inner city one bedroom apartment versus a big house on several acres in a sub-division, or the amount of preps that you have: food supplies etc.

    Everything depends on the situation and the threat that emerges, including your own personal and family situation and preparations. One key thing is not to make assumptions now, but to remain flexible. My advice is not to ‘head for the hills’ by reflex, because unless you have somewhere to go you will be out there with the rest of the refugees in the chaos. If you even have a minimal amount of preparations at home you should shelter in place and make do the best you can. This should be a low profile shelter in place where you set yourself up to draw minimum attention to yourself as the waves of chaos pass. You may be sheltering in a basement with your family, for example. Of course, if the threat changes, then you will need to adapt to it. An organized gang of well-armed marauders going house to house in your neighborhood would be an example of when to make the decision to bug out. Be flexible and don’t go the opposite of the ‘head for the hills’ mentality and die in your basement simply because you did not want to pack up and go. However, I think that it is given that for anyone sheltering with supplies in this way there will at some point come one or more challenges such as home invasion from outside groups. This will also probably apply to those in rural retreats at some point as the horde fans out looking to survive. Be ready to respond and defend yourself against these challenges as necessary. Think of how it will likely be after the event, not how things are right now. Those in the rural retreats will probably have a rude awakening when they realize that the horde has reached them and the demographics have changed!

    I think that there are two main things that you have to achieve, phases if you like, in order to survive in the long term:

    1) Have enough stores, firearms, tactical ability and numbers if possible, as well as a covert location in order to survive the event and the initial chaos and disorder. This is a short to medium term goal.

    2) Long term, you will need to be able to live in a protected sustainable community. All prepper stores will run out in the end and the only solution to survive and thrive is to be able to produce food and protect your people and your resources.

    So, unless you started in a sustainable protected retreat, you will have to survive where you are until such time as you can get to one. Remember that in a full TEOTWAWKI scenario there will be mass panic and chaos as people try to find food and survive. There will be a huge population die-off and there will likely be a delay of a year or two before food can be produced. You have to survive from the one to the other. Even after the die–off there will still be good and bad guys out there. Good guys probably living in those sustainable retreats or locations, bad guys marauding and living off what they can loot and pillage. There may be other complicating factors, such as civil war or foreign invasion. I use the TV series ‘Jericho’ as an example of this.

    So, if you survived the event and were not already in that ideal retreat, you then have to move. Did you hide and protect your bug out vehicle with a supply of stored gas? Are you going to have to walk, or use other modes of transport? The key thing is that your group will have to make it to somewhere where they can be accepted by a current sustainable community, or move onto land where they can create one. This will involve travel of some sort and also the ability to defend your group while moving from A to B. If it is true TEOTWAWKI, then it could go on for years and you may have to travel to establish a farm somewhere. If you are going to be taken in by a community or small town that is sustaining itself, then you have to show your worth in some way. This can also become relevant to those who find themselves in the ‘gold standard’ prepper retreat location, because some of the factors may change to make that position no longer tenable. So, at some point it may be relevant to all that they will have to move in vehicles in a post collapse environment. Some good feedback that I have received is about communities in good defendable locations and the potential to take in good people after a collapse. The reasoning from one prepper was that although the community needed to be defended, good people could be screened and admitted and lodge with some of the elderly folk who have land but lack physical muscle to get things done. It smacks of a return to an older model of society where communities and villages mucked in together and children were looked after by the whole village while others worked the land.

    If you have to conduct vehicle movement in a post collapse environment then you will need to assume an extant threat. Such a threat will take the form, in simple terms, of armed groups and individuals who will seek to impinge on you and your family’s freedom, property or life for their own ends. There could be road blocks, ambush, mobs, tricks and all sorts of threats. You will also have to consider the extent that any law enforcement remains active, which could also include emergency or martial law. For example, if you are moving you will have to assess the situations as they appear and decide whether you are facing a legal checkpoint (i.e. military/law enforcement) versus perhaps an illegal roadblock with bad intent versus perhaps an ‘illegal’ one with simply defensive intent, such as one set up by a community militia to defend a town. The types of threat are numerous and to fully define them is also beyond the scope of this article; suffice to say that the means (firearms) are out there and the intent and motive will exist for the ‘bad guys’ to wish to do you harm. This is particularly true if you are moving with supplies in a collapse situation. Therefore, you will need to consider the adoption of defensive tactics and capabilities in order to mitigate against the threat.

    Please put out of your mind any assumptions that you may have already about how you will move in this kind of environment. I am not advocating the use of children as ‘shooters’, the open display of weapons out of car windows, or even the positioning of a ‘shooter’ in a sunroof. In short, this is not about going ‘Mad Max’. You will need to consider the ‘profile’ that you adopt, which means how your vehicle packet appears as you are moving along the roads and at halts, and will also have implications for the professionalism that you display. You can adopt either a ‘high’ or ‘low’ profile (or posture) and I would advocate that in this situation, as a family or group of civilians moving in a potentially hostile post collapse environment, that you adopt the lower end of the profile scale. This does not impact your defensive capability, and it could be said you make you a more inviting target if you look ‘softer’. However, you do not want to incite action against you by hostiles and there may well still be elements of military or law enforcement working out there and you don’t want to find yourself arrested or engaged by these elements because you yourselves are seen as a lawless threat. This is not a discussion about creating tactical teams or quick reaction forces, which I have written about elsewhere and will be useful in other circumstances; it is more about mitigating risk to a family or friends group moving cross country.

    Consider how you can maintain a defensive capability while also presenting a low profile. For example, consider your vehicles. Families often have minivans. These are not seen as cool or tactical at all, but if you put the seats down in the back you have a huge cargo space. Loading this with supplies would allow you to carry them while not making it look so obvious, less obvious than loading a pick-up or a trailer for example. Wear your load/ammunition carrying equipment in a way that is comfortable for sitting in a vehicle but less obvious – perhaps putting a shirt over top of a load carrying vest, and keeping weapons down but accessible. If you have to get out and stand by your vehicle you can do so with your weapon in a ready position, but you can also leave it on the seat next to you and readily available, depending on the situation and the profile you wish to portray. Consider these things.

    Remember that your vehicle gives you no protection. Rifle rounds will cut through the vehicle like a ‘knife through butter’. The only ‘hardened’ areas in a normal civilian vehicle are the engine block and the metal parts of the wheels. This is why if you are taking fire position next to a vehicle, you want to shelter by the engine or wheel wells; preferably you will then move away from the vehicle into a fire position in hard cover. You should consider how you may be able to change this by creating better ballistic protection in the vehicles. Wearing body armor is a help but provides little protection to the side of torso and thighs that are vulnerable to side shots as you are driving. Younger kids will also not be wearing it. You should consider how you can better ballistically protect the vehicle and occupants from this kind of threat. You can fix steel plate to the inside of doors if you have the capability. You could put all the seats down in the back of a van and put in an open top steel box with access doors to shelter the kids in. If you can’t go this far, you can consider other types of ballistic protection by where people sit, even phone books will stop a round! Spare body armor and ballistic plates lining the side of the vehicle, other types or hardened material will also work including creating a space inside the load you are carrying in which to shelter kids. You also need to know that in a normal car, the ballistic protection thing works both ways: the vehicle skin will not stop incoming rounds, which also means that you can fire out through the vehicle if you need to. Don’t worry about winding windows down, you can fire out through the glass or body of the vehicle as you need to.

    Seat belts are always a good idea, but the need for them can be countered by the need to keep speed low in order to be able to view the road ahead and try to avoid threats as they emerge ahead, particularly as you come around bends. I say this not because I advocate not using seat belts, but because kid’s car seats can be a problem for protection and also getting the kids out of the car in a hurry. They keep the kids sitting up high and if there is a contact involving enemy fire everyone needs to be as low as possible in the foot wells of the vehicles. Consider not using car seats and moving at slower tactical speeds. Also consider putting seats down and having the kids sitting on the floor, or perhaps secure the car seats to strong points in the floor rather than up on the vehicle seats. Consider how you will do this.

    You may be a small group of family or friends that has to move locations. The worst case is that you will move in one vehicle. You may well be limited in terms of who is trained and equipped to be tactically useful in defense of your group. Hopefully it is not just one of the spouses that is tactically able, or a single parent family moving. The time to train, prepare and get the right equipment and firearms is now. If you have one vehicle you are very vulnerable and have no tactical options or redundancy. A normal standard type family often has two spouses, kids and a couple of cars. This is still worst case but may be reality: if you have no more numbers to make up a tactical convoy then take both vehicles. One of the spouses drives the first vehicle in a recce function, perhaps carrying the stores, while the other spouse drives the second vehicle with the kids and other supplies. As you move keep a ‘tactical’ bound between vehicles, even at stops, where possible. A ‘tactical bound’ is a distance that depends on the ground and will vary, but in simple terms it is enough distance so that the second vehicle is not involved in the contact that the first one gets in to. Keep a bit of space there. Consider the use of more vehicles because it will give you tactical options and better allow you to protect the kids or other ‘protected persons’. More vehicles allow you to carry more supplies. Trailers will detract from your tactical mobility options, including reversing in a crisis, and therefore if you can move the stores into the vehicles you will be better off.

    The single family unit moving is still a worst case situation that can be mitigated a little by moving in two vehicles. Ideally, you will want to get together with a group or other family(s) where you have enough ‘shooters’ and drivers to create a minimum three vehicle packet. This will allow you to create a tactical close protection packet where you have an advance vehicle, a middle vehicle(s) for the protected personnel and a rear chase or counter attack (CAT) vehicle. This will greatly enhance your tactical options, redundancy and protection of the loved ones. This could even consist of variations such as an RV in the center with the protected personnel in, with front and rear protection vehicles.

    As you are driving, the driver’s job is to drive and he should preferably be capable as a ‘shooter’ but primarily the vehicle is his ‘weapon’ and the means to keep people safe. The other ‘shooters’ will be assigned observation sectors of responsibility as they move along the route. You should adopt a safe tactical speed that will give you warning of any dangers ahead and hopefully allow you to avoid them. Your primary focus should be on safety and the avoidance of danger. Invest time in route planning. Don’t be afraid to stop and move forward on foot to observe the route ahead, or turn around and go another way. Make sure you adopt the tactical bounds between vehicles and if you stop for any reason, such as to change a tire, fill up gas from your stored gas cans, or even for the night, you need to adopt a good tactical position and cover your sectors to protect the convoy. For longer term halts, such as overnight, conceal the vehicles off the road and post sentries. As you move, you will need to have any music off and consider having the windows open in unarmored vehicles in rural areas in order to be able to hear and get a better feel for the environment, particularly if you stop for any reason. But if you are anywhere where there is the potential for people or mobs then you need to have the doors locked and the windows up to reduce the risk of entry and even people getting snatched from vehicles.

    If you are driving and you come under enemy fire (’contact’) then you are in the enemy ‘killing area’ also known as the ‘X’ and the key thing is to get off the X as rapidly as possible. You may take casualties but you still need to get out of there and consolidate at a secured rally point. This is where any added ballistic protection will be priceless. A problem you may have is if you have a vehicle(s) immobilized by enemy fire on the X. These situations and the counter drills are covered in detail in ‘Contact! A Tactical Manual for Post Collapse Survival’. Briefly, you have to get the personnel off the X and this can either be with a rescue vehicle moving back into the killing area under cover fire and ‘cross decking’ the personnel, or alternatively the personnel in the immobilized vehicle(s) will have to fire and move off the X to rejoin the group under covering fire. Consider that for an unarmored vehicle one of the reasons that it may potentially be immobilized is that the driver has been shot. This is not truly immobilized in the sense that the engine or tires have not been shot out. Survivability will be greatly increased by the use of run-flat tires and added ballistic protection. If the driver is shot then you may be able to rapidly pull them out of their seat into the back of the vehicle and take their place. For an automatic transmission it may be that the passenger can simply jam his foot onto the accelerator from the passenger seat and drive the vehicle out. Consider how you will do this and have a drill for it. If you can’t accomplish this quickly, then you are for all intents and purposes in an immobilized vehicle and you will have to dismount to fire positions before either being rescued or fighting out of the ambush. Be aware that any vehicle immobilized on the X becomes a ‘bullet magnet’ and you do not want to be inside it, static, for any more than a few seconds.

    You will want to consider whether you are moving by day or by night. The situation will dictate but in general if you don’t have night vision equipment for driving, which means driving with headlights, then you should move during the day. This will allow you to scan and observe and your movement will also be less obvious without your headlights as it would be at night. You will need to give consideration to the threats you may encounter and drill your team accordingly. You may have to respond to roadside ambush, and this may be with the road open or blocked and with your vehicles perhaps becoming immobilized or receiving casualties. You will also have to work out how you will respond to roadblocks, both legal and illegal and what you will do if you observe them early of if you drive into one without prior warning. It is important that your practice these ‘actions on’ drills so that you will be able to respond in a crisis. You should even practice ‘cross decking’ and getting the kids out of the vehicles in an emergency, so that they know what to expect and are not surprised when you start giving them commands to ‘get down’ or get out of the vehicles. You can train this kind of muscle memory drill in the same way that kids do fire drills and ‘stop drop and roll’ at school.

    If you do find yourself in a position where it is the protected vehicle that is immobilized and under fire, then there needs to be at least on adult acting as the protection person and directing the protected personnel to stay low and crawl, while the other spouse or team members provide covering fire. You should be able to identify what hard cover is (cover from fire, not just view) and also what is ‘dead ground’, which is ground that the enemy cannot see into i.e. folds in the ground and ditches etc. This will allow the protection person to identify areas where they may keep the kids while waiting for a rescue vehicle, or alternatively allow them to crawl out of the killing area in cover while others in the team fire and move. The more vehicles and team members you have in your group, the more potential there is for covering fire from the flanks of the killing area, and the more people available to fire and move and also carry any casualties. The reality of a family or group of families or friends on the move is that there will be a mix of the tactically able, the young and the old and infirm. This article has not been about tactical teams and conducting tactical operations, that is a separate subject: it is about creating a tactical capability within your group where those that are able protect those that are not. This kind of specialization will enhance the survivability of those in your group.

    Max Velocity is an author, trainer, and operator of the website Max Velocity Tactical, providing tactical training and consultancy services for those preparing for disaster survival and high threat, protection and combat operations. His book Contact! A Tactical Manual for Post Collapse Survival covers the subject matter in the article above, which Max derived from years of experience gained from service with special operations forces.

    For those who are fully squared away on the prepping side, his book: Rapid Fire! Tactics for High Threat, Protection and Combat Operations omits mention of prepping, and expands on tactics.


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      1. With technology today no matter where you go they have the ability to find you.

        Stay Safe my Friends

        • I agree Tina. I will be a sitting duck because my wife will not be able to travel. Sure, we could hide in the ajacent woods but it wouldn’t be long before we were found out. Whatever will be will be.

          • What a silly article. If things get that bad traveling will do you no good. This guy sounds like he is one of the NUTS from Doomsday Preppers.

            If you have to go somewhere and the shit is hitting the fan, all can you do is put the pedal to the metal and hope for the best. And just like with a gun and shooting first, make sure you are prepared to run over anybody that stands in the way without so much as a tap on the brake.

            Some things you can not really prepare for, nor should you even try. It is far out nut jobs who devise these scenarios in their mind that give the rest of us preppers a bad name with the general public and encourages them to remain asleep rather than associating with such people.

            I don’t blame them if this is what they think we are preparing for.

            • Gods Creation,

              “If you have to go somewhere and the shit is hitting the fan, all can you do is put the pedal to the metal and hope for the best. And just like with a gun and shooting first, make sure you are prepared to run over anybody that stands in the way without so much as a tap on the brake.”

              Who is one of the NUTS?

            • “”””Who is one of the NUTS?”””

              The person who stands out in the road when the bullets are flying. Or, the one who stops to see what they want.

              Certainly not the guy fleeing the scene to safety in the fastest possible way.

            • As usual your comments are right on target.

              I suppose that there is a slim chance something like this would be necessary. One would be much better off learning to and preparing to garden.

              One would also be much better off to be more careful to move before things got this bad. If you thought you needed to move and you moved when these types of tactics were required, you made a HUGE mistake.

              The only applicable situation that I see this article applying to is where you’ve got a community and TSHTF and your community was overrun by some malady or group. Then, this would be a sudden (and very messy) evacuation for which there would be no way to prepare with this kind of methodology.

              If you have time to prepare and pack the kids and the ammo and supplies, why didn’t you do it before it got this bad? No, this has to be some type of emergency. You would also have to know where you were going and they should be expecting you. …and it would be a one shot deal.

              No, I don’t see this as practical or sensible. This is just doomsday preppers/bunkers fantasy, mostly. Though, it wouldn’t hurt to study what he says, and prep for it in your head a little, actually drilling it is probably overkill requiring somewhat of a tinfoil wardrobe.

            • I brake for squirrels! What the hell kind of movie are you people living through, are you kidding me? This wouldn’t even make a good movie. Do you go over these scenarios in your heads while you do your daily chores? Hey Gods Creation, you might want to take the word God out of your handle, not really appropriate. You sound like a cold, heartless little nut. I hope I piss you off because that would make my day. Better get out the tin foil suits for this one. Get a grip, this is far removed from reality but hey you can be the hero in your own mind.

            • Tommy boy, I never get pissed off. It is always more productive to consider the source of something than to get angry at it. In the instant matter, the source is not one that is respected, or deserving of my respect.

              I did, however, get a chuckle from your sad performance as a troll.

              Sorry to ruin your day.

            • You made my day psycho. I’m not a troll, just a sane human being who thinks you need medication. Run them over, shoot them before they move, yea, that is so sane. You are a heartless little creep and I really don’t know why anyone with a brain would give you any credence at all.

            • Tommy boy, such mean and hateful things from someone who claims to be such a good Christian man. If you were anything of the sort, you would not need to make the claim to begin with.

              My comments are addressing the very extreme conditions of the article above, and for shooting first when there is an attack in progress at your home that requires you grab a gun.

              Yet in your infantile responses you seem to imply I somehow advocate running over children playing on the sidewalk while your on your way to Walmart. And if you miss them with the car, you should stop and shoot them.

              If it makes you feel better about yourself to judge me as a psycho, you can sure do that. However, as a Christian you should know better than to judge, lest ye be judged.

              Your comments seem far more fitting to be aimed at yourself than at me. Especially the quip about the need for medications. Perhaps you need to get in touch with the higher power to sort out your insecurities.

              I would continue the battle of wits, but apparently you are unarmed.

            • @ Tommy Boy..comment below.
              “Who is one of the NUTS?” Ummm I AM! Believe this and stick it your bible as gospel. I wouldn’t take a second thought either about turning someone into what looks like a Lasagna buffet splattered on the road if I’m relocating my family. I won’t be wasting any time and if you’re in the road and I can’t miss you for some reason you better move quick. It sounds to me Tommy Boy like you would’ve slowed down or stopped. Hindsight 20/20 for Tommy Boy…you’re now shot,laying in the ditch bleeding because 5 minutes earlier you slowed down or stopped because maybe it’s a woman that seems to need help, then before you even have time to blink an eye, men come from both sides, boom!’re shot, can’t move, watching your family be raped, sodomized and killed…you’re now wishing to God you would’ve ran her ass over. Trust, Softness or Pity for people will get you’re dumb ass killed along with others with you. You better learn that shit.

            • Satans Creation,

              The battle of wits is in your so called mind.
              So you think I am mean and hateful? You are always writing about killing people, you are not only cold and heartless, but you are dangerously sick. I just expose you for what you are, there is nothing mean about that, God would want people to expose those who are out for murder and always brag about how easy it would be for them to commit it. Nothing wrong with my Christian values, you are way out there.
              I am not judging you dear, just stating the obvious. The same way everyone calls out the president, is the way I call out you. I know what kind of person you are and so does God. This type of thing happens when a sane person enters the cyber world of a sick one like you. Best of luck and I hope you never get the chance to kill anyone, although you could live it out in your dreams everyday. I can see through you and you just don’t like it.

              Writing to you gives me the creeps so I leave you with these parting words, GET A REAL LIFE and do consider medication.

            • GatorNavy,

              You forgot to say they would also cut us up and eat us for dinner. You should get together with Satan’s Creation and write a book, fiction of course. Get real pal, you like this crap and want to be a survivor with notches on your belt.

            • I believe most of us on sites such as this are keenly aware of what is happening on a daily basis. We watch and wait for the shoe to drop. When it does there will be a small window of opportunity to bug out and hit the road. After a few days travel will be to dangerous unless you live in very rural areas. Those that have preppared know this and will take the steps to ensure their survival. The rest will be toast sitting at home waiting the prince charming to come to the rescue, which we know won’t happen.

            • Tommy boy

              Apparently you don’t read my postings, or have the ability to take them into the context of the article on which I am commenting.

              You are so full of hate and anger that it is very unlikely that God knows you, or you know Him. If either were true, you would be at peace rather than trolling sites like this one with your lunatic rantings claiming knowledge of others you do not possess about those who have been here for a long time trying to help others be ready for the coming hard times.

              If I had to make a bet, you are probably a teenager with no friends and a crappy outlook on life you wish to take out on others in a gross overcompensation for you own inadequacies.

              That is a matter for you to deal with in your own time. When you clear your heart of the hate, maybe there will be room for something more.

              Fortunately, the tone of your remarks shows the reader that you are not very stable and they do not reflect on the target, be it me or anyone else you attack with your false statements under your pretend faith in God.

              A troll is a troll. We all know them, and usually I just leave them be. But watching your anger increase and your statements get more hateful and ridiculous has been somewhat fun and has helped expose you to others so they can make their own decisions about reading what your hateful rants in the future.

              There is a lot of positive energy available for those who seek it. Perhaps when you grow up a little and your hormones stabilize you will choose to be a part of it. You will be amazed at the peace you can find there.

            • Satan’s Creation,

              You are sooo wrong about who I am, but since I do not give personal information about myself then I’ll leave it at that. As for you, did you know that I am psychic? I see you as a very old and lonely woman, other than an occasional visitor, you only have your cats and your computer to keep you company. You sit at the computer all day and google constantly to make yourself sound intelligent. Well, got to go now, my ten minutes on the computer are up, unlike you, I have a career to attend to. Keep preppin dear and don’t forget the cat food.

              PS. Would you really run someone over without even tapping the break? You’ve got moxie old lady even if it is only in your dreams.

            • “What a silly article. If things get that bad traveling will do you no good. This guy sounds like he is one of the NUTS from Doomsday Preppers”

              Spoken like the dumb son of a bitch that’s never heard of the military. GC, get your head outta your ass.

            • No one is going anywhere after the word is out. there will be so many roadblocks by both cops and criminals(they will become one and the same)that unless you know some secret backroad you will be stopped. There also will be no gas available. Unless you live in a small to medium size town and are within twenty miles of your hidey hole you most likely are better off staying put.

            • I don’t think Tommy Boy is angry or hateful. I actually think it is fear manifesting itself as anger. Preparation of the mind is beyond most people capabilities because is deals with areas that as we are made in God’s image that are difficult to reconcile. The thought of killing anyone is a difficult mindset for those that have never had to contemplate such a scenario. That being said, that scenario described in the article happens everyday and has happened in the past. It is not a fantasy, in a collapse scenario it is reality. Do I want to kill someone? Not at all. Is it possible that i will have to defend myself and family from those bent on taking from me everything at the expense of my life? Most definitely! Dealing with the reality that one day you may have to pull the trigger or run someone over is the same as trying to wake someone up to the illusion we have all been living in for so long.

        • From what I read this article is not talking about the military that you have to avoid but those people (civilians) who did not prep or who were taken by surprise when the dollar collapsed. These will be desperate people who are slowly starving to death. They will not have night vision equipment, they won’t have anything, that’s why they are on the hunt for people who do have food and water and guns. The military could care less about us.They will be looking for people who are resisting them and you ain’t going to shoot it out with them because you are going to loose. What do you think they are going to do put 300,000,000 people in fema camps? They don’t want the headache. What you need to worry about is roving gangs of young people and crazed drug addicts, and desperate people who will stop at nothing. Their strength lies in their numbers. More then liken they will not have guns and ammo,just like they won’t have food and water, but a few will. Remember they are not preppers so they will be no better off than those unprepared people who had their heads in the sand all their lives.You take out 5 or 6 of them from two to three hundred yards away and I guarantee they will turn and haul ass.Peace Brother

          • @ YankeeDoodle
            “The military could care less about us.They will be looking for people who are resisting them and you ain’t going to shoot it out with them because you are going to lose.”

            IMHO-Here is an example where so called “preppers” and myself and a few others have differences. Although your statement has some truth in it. Let’s say you’re a prepper and you and others do make it through all the chaos. A new form of Government WILL come into effect and will have a new Dictator with it. You’re foolish to believe that they will NOT eventually come for you and seize every thing you have including firearms. Will you be a good little slave? Will you be happy with that? Is this the point where a prepper tries to fight? I know for a fact not all military will follow along and sabotage will be would a well known word. That first chaotic month or two etc. provides the best opportunity for an assault against a technologically advanced military that’s trying to oppress and control large populated areas. Of course this is just talk and speculation after all and we have the best, honest Government ever and would never do that to us. 🙂

        • well how well did that work for bonney and clyde. that got smoked from massive 30.06 shells slugs you name it.

          • Actually mostly .35 Remington.

            • I love my .30-’06 and my .35 Remington!!!

        • Tina, technology can only find you if you bring it with you. If you have to go somewhere to hide, leave the smartphone at home ( or ditch it in the opposite direction from where you are heading) and bring an unactivated disposable trac phone for emergency use with a 60 minute card.

          • Don’t own a smart phone but thinking between the drones in the air ….and all those new IRS agents….who knows

            • Tina, not to worry. That’s what they want you to do. The corp wants you to believe it is omnipotent and infallible and has total control over everything you do, say, and think.

              It’s all a charade. Just don’t swallow the fear they are selling and you will be fine. If you fear them, they win. If you don’t fear them, you win.

          • @ God’s Creation…Are we still talking about during a time of a crisis and things have gone completely bat-shit? “phone for emergency use” I have to ask, who are you going to call?

            • Gator,

              Most likely nobody. But everyone should have a disposable phone in their preps. Cost less than 30 bucks with an hour of talk time card. Besides, the corp will need to maintain its own communications and they just might work.

              It would be far better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. It just might be the final line of communication with some of your loved ones.

            • Dial a prayer.

          • Tommy boy says:
            “You forgot to say they would also cut us up and eat us for dinner. You should get together with Satan’s Creation and write a book, fiction of course. Get real pal, you like this crap and want to be a survivor with notches on your belt.”
            I’m not on here to bicker like a little school girl. Your reply to what I wrote is immature because what I wrote in my comment has happened thousands of times in the past. Think it’s fiction google it. As for myself “liking this crap, being a survivor” etc. If others recall any of my posts on here they know I’m not a survivalist or prepper etc. You have the wrong man. I’m one of those men that only cares about a few things…my wife, children & grandchildren and a piece of old paper I took I an oath to defend a long time ago. So I guess I am NUTS!

            • Gator Navy,
              Right there with you. It was never supposed to be, but, as in the days of the revolution, there are times when country takes precedent over family, only because country was (is) required for family safety and security. What else is more important than God, Country and Family? There are many of us “nuts” out here. Some more vocal than others, but not sheep by any stretch. The Oath never dies!

      2. Dude’s right, but with one caveat:

        Over time, gasoline/diesel, mechanical parts, tires, and any other consumable will run out or wear out. Then the trick is how to get from points A to B without an automobile, van, truck, etc.

        • Horse, Mule…Rollerblades?

          • Additional travel option is that mountain bike with tow.

          • Don’t overlook the utility of a well made mountain bike.

            • True – the NVA and VietCong used masses of bicycles on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

        • I have a 20 year old truck and I keep it full always. At 25 MPG, that can get me 500 miles.

          I’m not the only one with that gas tank size.

          • A couple of extra 5 gallon cans will get you another 250 miles…. Keep a couple of them full too, just rotate them and don’t let them sit forever. That corn fuel goes bad relatively quickly.

            • Union “76” gas stations sell gasoline without Corn in it.

            • So does Marathon, at least in Ohio.

              And a shot of StaBil will let gas keep for years.

              Been there, done that.

            • Good to know EA.

            • Wait a second. Aren’t you the dumbass that just above said “traveling will do you no good.”

            • Y, practice good fuel rotation and buy ethanol free as alcohol attracts water into the fuel (thus the short shelf life) not to mention breaks down fuel lines in older vehicles. I found a place online that sells a gas can retrofit kit so,you can actually pour gas without spilling fuel all over the place (gotta love fuel cans designed by government drones who probably never mowed a yard in their life). I notice that gas cans jumped up in price again, put to $16 or $18 at Walmart now. They used to be about $8 two years ago. Then up to $14 all of a sudden’ then up another few bucks in the past two months. Any thoughts on why the huge jump in price, more than doubled in two years? Regarding the article, no chance following those instructions against a well armed and trained force would be useful, except avoidance. If you do find yourself in such a situation, you are best off driving through fast, limiting time in the kill zone. When going through roadblocks, aim for the trunk areas of vehicle blocking the road (lighter). Also, aim for attackers if they are in the path of travel, untrained will scatter, not hold ground.

      3. DRESS YOURSELF PROPERLY – Prepare for Battle …

        *sand bag -n- tape your vehicles front windshield rear window on outside inside … 2 layers and wear protective shatter proof goggles over eyes at all times driving or sitting in vehicles to protect from flying glass fragments .

        *remember besides the occasional direct hit to your bodies … most wounds in gun fights are secondary caused . bullets striking near you explosive ricochet caused flying debris … wear protective eye head gear , bullet proof / flak vest and thick protective combat work clothing boots at all times when moving or in danger zones .



      4. My prediction is just like that TV show. You know, that one about living in a post apocalyptic setting. Or was it a movie?

        The hardest thing people are gonna have to get used too, is no television to provoke thought. No internet. People would be driving around in their own cult-a-sacs, lost, because their GPS is offline.

        The collapse has happened. We’re falling. The TV makes you think otherwise. Imagining a future perhaps, but without a grasp on the reality of the present. YOU PEOPLE, better stop preparing and start living in it if you’re so sure. Or are you waiting for bombs to start going off in your neighborhood?

      5. off subject, please respond. If you could pay off 2/3 of your credir debt, would you?, or would you spend it on needed preps, debt is less than $7,000.00, allready paid off $3,500.00 in the last month ( selling uneeded stuff), increasing monthly income by $135.00, paying off the other debt will increase monthly income by another $160.00, (i have a limited income). The added monthly income would be a big help, but still limited on needed preps, -food, medical,ammo,canning needs, etc… if it is turds up next month what will it matter. please respond and thanks, NC out

        • Usually I would say pay off your debt – but right now, I sincerely feel that preps are more important than being debt free.

          I’d probably make the basic payment and look for some good deals on preps.

          • I would agree completely with you. Don’t let debt get so out of hand you can’t recover if we happen to muddle through, but wouldn’t you hate to be known as the last guy who paid his Bank of America Visa card off before they all went belly up?

            As an aside, I would really recommend that folks who have a tidy profit from the metals they hopefully bought several years ago–at least–take some of that off the table and buy the essentials. It’s too easy to get wrapped around the idea of how much it may be worth a couple of years from now and forget you’ve got to get there first. If it’s even available, you will be paying massively more for food, ammo, meds etc than you are now.

            Be smart and turn some of that into items you may need desperately. You can’t make a killing on gold if you’re already dead.

            • Remember they will be sitting on the other side waiting for the payments on the other side of this crisis too..

              The peace of mind that goes with debt free live is a prep in itself. Pay it off; unless you have nothing in the prep area.

        • The banksters have stolen enough from you already. Don’t put them before your own needs, even if it means never paying another nickel on your “debt”. They lent you credit, not money. The money was created by your signature and if you never gave them a nickel they have profited tremendously already for your letting them borrow your signature to create assets on their books.

          Screw the banksters, not yourself.

        • ncprepper, ask yourself, if you had to pay your taxes or feed your family, what’s it gonna be? If you had to pay your credit card or make sure you had gasoline for your vehicle, what’s it gonna be? If you had to choose between a bigger bank account or sturdy shoes and clothes, what’s it gonna be?

          PAY YOURSELF FIRST. Always

        • Paying it as you can is the best idea. Prep what you can at the same time. If you can go debt free do it. Network with others so if shit gets bad you got your ass covered. Grp up with some survivalists also not just pure preppers. As I say Prepping is geat but unless you can survive without those preps you are not prepared.
          Learn all you can about EVEYTHING while you can. LoL ppl are going to start thinking I work for these guys but here it is again.
 VERY VERY good information. Read well learn and practice in your yard everyday. You learn these skills you will never worry about a #10 can again. Unless the world dies you can survive.

      6. It’s all about timing. And the more you need to travel, the less chance you have of getting where you want to be.

        • Ain’t THAT the truth !

      7. How many of yall have been training with rucksacks? You might want to start thinking about it. Start out light and gradually add weight until you can easily carry your “OH CRAP” bag for 12 miles or more. And dont just take the easy road. Try a little off road also.

        I have out of the Amry for a couple of years and recently realized that being in shape isnt automatic any more. 🙂

        • pardon my dislexia, I have been out of the “Army”

          • Yeah not as easy carrying the 112Lbs. ruck anymore. Been using a put bricks in it for now for wieght training. The wife carries a BoB with the basic supplies for 1 week for the two of us for traveling. We take a walk every day with it unfortunatly not alot of off road. Been about 14 years since I was in the field. But when we go camping its me, a knife, hatchet, and the wife nothing more.

            • Is the wife your backup food supply? Kinda like snack on the hoof, meals on hiking boots? make sure she is not thinking the same way about you.:)

        • Off road, broken elevation, woods, stream crossing, rock climbing…yep. Remember to “take a hike” in less than ideal weather for some real fun, because “if it ain’t rainin’…” Three years retired myself brother, keep on keepin’ on!

          • we ain’t training”

      8. We are considering a call from Appalachia to a church on the coast in a city with as many people as our current state. I’m already initiating relationships with like minded people there. This information will be useful in planning our return. I’m also planning to stash another provisioned BOV 50 miles out in case we have to walk, bike, etc. and a small storage unit with a loft bed over supplies another 150 miles along the rural route. This will get looted later in a crises, but would make the difference during the initial stage.

      9. It’s articles like this that make preppers look like tinfoilers. If you were new to this site and saw this article, would you think we preppers are a little goofy? I would cringe at the show Doomsday Preppers when people would talk like this article does. This article makes us look paranoid and insane. Thumbs down away.

        • That is us. Why should we hide from it.

          • Because it is NOT us. It is a very small minority that thinks that way. The 1% of the preppers.

            The other 99% are absolutely right for hiding from those kinds of fantasy preppers, and for not wanting to be associated with it.

            • Of all you have no right to say that. From what you preach your name should be on that article. I believe you are not taking your own advice and beliefs to heart. I smell a double standard. If it going where YOU say. These skill set are just the minimum people should be introduced to.

              And if only 1% of us is willing to be this prepared all are screwed. And hiding and trying to not be seen is then the only choice for the few that will even try then.

        • If you are out after dark and living in Stockton, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, Flint, etc. and read that article, it would be ‘life as usual’ ….parts of the described scenario are happening in the U.S today.

        • Any parent even thinking of taking a small baby or toddler into the woods or back roads to get anywhere is a bad parent and needs counseling.
          There are worse things than dying, folks.

          Our next home is heavenly.

          • Worse things like taking your family out for a camping trip?

          • Any MAN that would not protect his children, and thinks that that is a ‘biblical’ precept, needs to read that book again…
            Read that part about going “into the wilderness” to escape the flood of humanity…

            You are like most other ‘christians’, cowards, and sheep, you are the ones who laid down on the altar of God’s Liberty and took a nap. Your apathy will be the downfall of yourself and your children.

            You are called to be God’s Hands, through the Holy Spirit of your conscience, not a ‘nice’ dishrag being used as slave labor for the purpose of evil. You are an enabler, and need to fire your preacher.

            We are divided as the Iron and the Clay.
            Evil crept in from the early days,
            its salt you’re called to be my son,
            not sugar and sweetness, on the tongue.

            God bless

      10. Blackriflewarrior

        Thumbs up. I see exactly what you are saying.

        I have driven in the UK, the US, Europe and the Middle East. I have to tell you, if you can manage Downtown Cairo in rush hour you have enough tactical driving skill to cope with anything It is the only time in my life I have been truly terrified at the wheel of a car, and when you think I managed half a mile going the wrong way up a highway in New York State that’s saying something.

        Take care

        • Been in Cairo traffic myself a few times as a taxi passenger. Wouldn’t want to drive there, ever!!

        • Burt. Cairo sounds like the inbound Ryan into Chicago at 7 am. You never know how tight you can grip a steering wheel until you have driven at 80 miles per hour in bumper to bumper traffic. What my point was is that more people are waking up seeking the truth on what is going on in the world and seeking out sites that might give them an edge on being prepared and they read an article like this one and they go away thinking we are anarchists or something.

          • We’re not anarchists?????

            Oops – pardon me – wrong site! 😉

            • Not this week.:-)

          • wow – i have driven in chicago ,and being unacustomed to it …….. scary .
            also detroit some of the nieghborhoods the police wont even use the stop signs !
            i couldnt even imagine it being worse than it already is !and dont want to either.

            • I drove Chicgo expressways for 40 years. You get used to it.

      11. Sounds like a “Baghdad Convoy” to me.

        • JRS

          I tell you true I did the last few minutes with my eyes closed, this was less terrifying than seeing what was happening lol

          Take care

      12. Are we going to take one on the economic chin? You betcha. We collectively have been living beyond our means (regardless if you and your family were fiscally responsible) for a long time. Will the standard of living drop? Well it’s been dropping and will continue to do so. How far is guesswork but I think a 50% reduction is probably likely. Will there be social ramifications? Well we’re not discussing NASCAR or Basketball here. Will we go back to the pre industrial age w/o electricity? Economic collapse will bring us down to that level.

        The skills for driving through a neighborhood on the verge of a riot would be useful to know.

        • The skills for driving AROUND a neighborhood on the verge of a riot would be MUCH MORE useful!

          Like I said in my previous post: if you’re driving under those conditions, you made a big mistakes. You may get lucky, but, if you make many mistakes like that, your luck will run out quickly. Unless you’re doing some kind of rescue mission or your head was completely in the sand about what was happening around you, the tactics in the article are pretty much null and void.

          The whole idea is to prep. The article is for those who prepped in some ways but had their head in the sand in other ways.

          The point to survival is to pay attention, be flexible. I urge people to study the article and tactics but only as an extreme emergency.

          Were I in this situation. I would use different tactics. This is Bagdad, militaristic stuff, not US after the collapse stuff. There is a difference with very few similarities. I re-read the article and I find it to be more the stuff of Hollywood and Madd Max stuff than reality.

          If this is our future reality then few of us will survive. It would take years for it to become like this. Be sure to have some of this type of material around and printed so you can read it in the years after the internet dies and you can’t waste your time on Xbox anymore.

          • I like the parts about spare body armor and armoring up your minivan. This story is another Alamo fantasy

            Some observations on unrest:

            Fire plays a big role in every riot. For some reason, people like to burn tires in the middle of the street.

            People dearly love to kill cars. They must be bullet magnets.

            For me, overturning and burning cars seems to be a lot of work for very little gain.

            • @ BOBO Brazil…Alamo Fantasy…you think? lol

              “Spare body armor and ballistic plates lining the side of the vehicle,”

              I just wonder how many people can afford GOOD body armor? Then let alone.. just have more “spare” armor or ballistic plates laying around your house or in your car trunk and HAVE ENOUGH that you can somehow affix to the inside walls of your mini van to make it more “bullet proof”

        • Heres the skill. Don’t do it. Find another route. A white driving through a black neighborhood set to go off will be the trigger.

      13. oops

        “Economic collapse will bring us down to that level.”


        Economic collapse will NOT bring us down to that level.

        • @ Kevin2… Don’t YOU ever, ever do that to me again! You had me so worried I wouldn’t be able to use my Curling Iron after the Economic Collapse before I shave every morning! 🙂

      14. This article solidifies what I have been saying that people need to get out of the major urban areas. Trying to bug out of a jam packed area is extremely difficult. Major populated areas are death traps WHEN the collapse begins. Disease is going to be awful, and the higher the density of people both dead and alive and their rufuse the higher the chance of getting deadly sicknesses. Water is another huge issue as it is going to be near impossible to get much water up vertically anywhere.

        There was concern mnetioned about rural locations, but anyone is going to be much better off in isolation than any city. People “think” that they can live in a post collapsed type of society in the large cities, and this is not going to be realistic. You watch these old movies scuh as Escape from New York or LA and this is probably a more optimistic view of what it will be like after a city is torn apart. Major cities are totally dependable on the outside world to survive, when the outside society is no more major cities die hard and ugly. When you transform an area in concrete vertical structures and paved over everything else, you transform that area into a graveyard when nothing comes in from the outside to keep this artificial environment up and running.

        The best course of action for anyone to find an ideal location that they can hunker down and hope not to bug out. This doesn’t have to be isolated, but in my opinion it has to be at least 50 miles away, preferably 100 miles away from any metropolitian area. There are plenty of places to go that have a few thousand people in them, and even places that have under 100,000 as long as they are many miles away from a mjor urban area.

        The real issue is that most people will have to find food in the outdoors and you just are not going to find any reliable food in a concrete jungle unless you enjoy pigeon pie or rat fricassee. You are not going to grow food on bare rock, and that is exactly what a major city is. Truly if you cannot go out and find food within a hour or so where you live that can make you a decent meal, you are in the wrong location to be WHEN the implosion occurs. If you cannot find enough water to fill up a couple of gallon water jugs within a 10 minute walk, consider another place to be.

        You will know when you are in the right place, there will be a feeling of security. I don’t know about all of you out there, but it sures seems closer than ever what is coming.

        • Be informed: The USGS has steped-up their checking of the rods in the ground in the Wabash Valley Seismic Zone. They have been puttind down more rods in Indiana now, along the Wabash river. Just though you would like to know. A friend asked them what they where doing, they told him they are just doing a study on the river movement and how the floods have effected the flow. Could be but my guess it’s B S.

          • I have relatives in that area. They’re doing seismic testing for oil sands all over that area. I know because some of my friends and relatives have sold oil leases. I’ve even talked to a couple crews and traced the activity back to the drilling companies.

            No worries here.

          • @ copperhead. As with most if not all government agencies, they seldom tell anyone what they are actually doing. You can check the river level for example to see if a fault is causing a drop or rise in water levels. Very large earthquakes with very often have these type of precursors beforehand, especially well water levels. In 1812 after the New Madrid fault broke there was a super mega quake down in what is now Caracas, Venezuela on March 26, 1812. The earthquake search results under significant worldwide earthquakes from 2100 BC to 1994 says this earthquake was a 9.6. The three earthquakes that hit the New Madrid fault were 8.6, 8.3, and 8.7. These figures come from the USGS NEIC.

            The Caribbean plate affects the New Madrid as does the opposite. They know this. The Caribbean fault as you know has been very active and a very large earthquake is due on the eastern section of it, as there has not been a big earthquake in this area since 1843 and 1690. This area is a ticking H-bomb. This area affects the central part of the U.S., the New Madrid.

            I have been for months discussing about how the super mega horizontal earthquake in April affected other faults all over the planet. Now months later after you heard me spouting off, there is a nice article on Yahoo titled “Huge Earthquake triggered other quakes worldwide”. You heard it here months before everyone else is told that earthquakes trigger other plates. Sometime you might even see an article by the so called scientists of the world admitting that the Caribbean plate affects the New Madrid.

            On September 15 and 17 there was two earthquakes; one sub polar and the other polar, of 4.8 and 4.6. I said that there would be moderate earthquakes for this activity. There was a 6.2 in the Gulf Of California yesterday and today a 6.4 in Alaska. It was first a 6.9 that puzzled me because there were no polar earthquakes above 5.0. They downgraded it to 6.4. There is something to the polar earthquakes that indicate 6.5+ quakes are coming, usually. Keep watching the polar regions for 5.0+ earthquakes for bigger quakes to come.

            The USGS can dodge the REAL reason why they are setting up so much seismic testing like what NetRanger was talking about with the oil sands. This doesn’t jive with me. Drilling companies normally employ private firms to do seismic testing. Sounds like the USGS is using the false pretext to hide what they are really up to. Distant plates affect each other, BIG TIME. They suspect something.

            • Be informed: I’ve spent the last 47 yr’s in the oil patch and they are not look for oil with what they are using. To me it looks like they are more concerned with what is going on around the rivers. THX to you and Net Ranger

            • Oh oh. You’ve gone nutbag again.

        • Might add an urban area was found to be a perfect concentration camp as shown by the warsaw ghetto last century,it is also easier to gun down,gas, and bomb concetrated populations in cities.

          • @ ButterknifeBrigade. Excellent point. The more densely populated an area is, the easier it is for the enemy to exterminate the populace, kind of like the way someone finds the main hive of insects and goes after it. I rather be one of those mavericks away from the densely packed school of fish. The first targets on ICBM attacks will be military, then major manufacturing centers and highly populated places. Huge metropolitian areas should have a huge bull’s eye painted near its center for a very wide variety of reasons.

        • One of my dh’s friends in Tennessee says he will hunt for his, this is coming from a very responsible, but naive person. Like him and how many other million with guns?
          My dh is tired of hinting that he is barking up the wrong tree(pun intended) thinking he will hunt to feed himself.

          • There is not much worry there. Oh, they’ll get a few but, so far as I have seen, the guys that I know that say they’ll hunt for food are exactly right: they hunt for it but they won’t find it because they don’t really understand how the game moves or does. They just do a modern form of hunting that will be ineffective once the game gets thin. For those of us that really know the land and the game, there is a plentiful bounty out there that they’ll never even touch.

            There are many things that people don’t realize you can eat. After all the rabbits and deer have been shot, there are other things that people don’t seem to realize can be eaten. Someone mentioned pigeon pie and rat fricasse. There are a lot more that even the country people out here have no idea about. Being a farm boy with a father that loved to hunt and fish is turning out to be the best advantages anyone could have ever hoped for.

            The fact is, you can eat most any animal but most people won’t be able to adapt and won’t know what to stay away from. There are many things that we’ll eat then that now we’d say “YUCK!!!” to right now. Most won’t be able to stop the “yuck” and put on the “yum”. I will, because I’ve done it.

            I showed my son, back in July, that you could shoot, prepare and eat a rabbit in less than an hour. He shot the rabbit and cleaned it. I cut a hickory limb, sharpened it, started a fire and we roasted it. Frankly, it wasn’t great but we loved it because it was ours. We owned it. There will be a lot of that going on with more than just rabbits.

            • Yep Netranger is right alot of ppl make fun of the roadkill eaters and such. Ever eat Squirrel? Possum? Snake? Grubs? Ants? Rat? Dog? the dog was actually a coyote. Is all good meat when your surviving. Didn’t care for raccoon tho. But it is edible, and when hungry it will taste just fine 🙂 Just a quick tip for ppl who don’t know.

              White streaks or lines in the muscles are the disease I’ve seen the most (but still relatively rare.) It looks like small white worms in the muscles, but they aren’t worms. They are little “bags” full of germs (protozoa to be specific.) They are caused by millions of little single celled animals that infect the rabbit. They also infect ducks. The name of the disease is sarcocystis.

              Any critter with an orangey-yellow liver is likely diseased. There is one exception to an orange liver being bad, and that seems to be ducks and geese that have been gorging themselves on corn.

              Another well known disease of rabbits is tularemia (rabbit fever.) It’s caused by a bacteria carried by ticks. It’s for this reason that my grandfather would only hunt rabbits after the first heavy frost. The idea was the frost would kill off the ticks. The sign of tularemia in a rabbit is white spots on the liver. Every time I hunted rabbits with my grandfather, he would carefully examine the liver of a rabbit when we cleaned them.

      15. DON´T SMOKE , FIGHT THE NWO !!!!!

      16. Remember, waterways are viable transport routes in many cities, and don’t seem to get much attention in these forums. A night time egress from my city by canoe is one of my planned for options.

      17. Much to “High Speed” in my opinion for 90% of the readers here. Good luck trying to get all the movement and cover under fire when SHTF? That part actually made me laugh. I have seen TRAINED individuals fall apart under these exact same scenarios, people freeze up. Average Joe prepper and his family no less will not be able to implement such strategies unless real training,practice and forethought is put into this type of situation.

      18. git
        while the gittin’ is good

        depending on just how TSHTF
        you may not have the chance to get out

      19. More and more i think we will not have a collapse but a TRANSITION into a new system !
        This is a completely controlled game and they know exactly whats going on and what will happen and they certainly wont allow themselves to become targets in a post collapse situation , which is what they will be so as soon as they are ready to destroy this system they will be right there with their new system to take over!

        • RICH99,

          I am impressed you have seen the light, these wheels have been in motion for a long time.. If you can not see whats going on in our country right now then you really do get what you deserve, the fall isn’t bombs going off, it isn’t the lights going off (yet). It appears to be the slow motion train wreck that will leave most stunned.. Great to see something positive out of you.

          Have A great day or night


          PS Just remember to live everyday with a little fun..In the end we shall all be held accountable..

        • Fogot where I saw this.

          The problem is killing itself, so all we have to do is survive its death.

        • Rich,
          Gets it.
          The System is 5000 years old.
          It is called a Head of Gold, the Rule of Gold; He who has the gold, makes the rules, and its name is; Phoenix of Babylon,
          and when the statue on two legs of ideology does fall,
          a Phoenix rises,
          the Beast comes forth,
          to take the Earth,
          in an old kind of sport.

          Here is wisdom,
          of a rock that’s thrown,
          into the gears,
          of Phoenix now sewn.

          Into the wilderness,
          means what it says,
          to leave The System,
          to go Galt instead.

          Take your children,
          and make a plan,
          trim your wicks,
          to make a stand.

          For when it comes,
          in darkness spreading,
          become a light,
          against the dreading.

          Come together, many as one,
          common cause, becomes great fun,
          for only as unity, will you stand,
          to beat the darkness, in the land.

      20. Batten down the hatches..

        Question for the author or others..
        Would cement board qualify to stop basic rounds for an average home..or would it be impervious to certain rounds as well?


        Any other suggestions would be welcome..


        • Go to BoxOtruth. They have lots of info on actual ammo penetration testing on real life stuff.

        • posse,

          Not sure about cement board but will test some this weekend if I find my guns in the lake..LOL. But I can tell you the a 2×4 wall full of dirt slows down most rounds, 2×6 wall with dirt water packed has stopped 150gr 30-06 and 308 as well as the 7mm mag.. You would have to ask nino about the 45-70 cause I don’t know anybody that shots one.. Kinda makes you think about digging that new root cellar.

          Just what I have learned,


          • I hearda story once where it was claimed somethin stopped a 45-70 round….but you know how people lie… 🙂

        • Possee, I’ve experimented with different types of penetration but I have little experience attempting to stop penetration.

          I read a book called “holding your ground”. I believe the book is much like the article above, only, the antithesis of it: If you stayed there that long you probably should have bugged out. But, there was a lot of practical information even for preliminary situations. One of them is this: There is a reason the military uses sand bags. THEY WORK!

          Now, with a bit of engineering, plywood walls using 2x12s on 16″ centers with 1/2″ plywood on each side and then the voids filled with sand will be quite a stopper.

          The problem I see with bullet barriers is this: no matter what you use, its heavy if its cheap. If its not heavy, its expensive. Maybe some old kevlar vests between two sheets of plywood? Don’t know, but, sand, dirt, driveway gravel, whatever, 12″ stops pretty big stuff. 24″ stops just about anything.

          High density concrete is good too. If you took and laminated, say, 1/2″ plywood and 1/2″ cement board, it might do well. Say, five layers: Plywood/Cement/Plywood/Cement/Plywood might stop some serious rounds. Certainly would stop 223 and pistol calibers.

          • Kevlar vest need the movement to work. Sandwiching them between wood loosing most of the effectiveness.

            Example I use out dated soft vest and hang them in the cavities of my big rigs. Even hang them in the doors of the cars.

        • Nope, 3/8th wont even stop 9mm and 7.62×39 will penetrate over an inch of it. if you have a bigger dog, save the plastic 25-50 lb food sacks or get some bundles of sandbags from home depot and if the need comes use them to sand bag the inside areas that need protection.that and as mentioned old phone books and bundles of newspapers also will help.

          It wont be pretty on the inside but will look normal from outside.Mass is what you need to stop rounds and dog food or regular sandbags full of soil compacted and layed flat and stacked can stop a 308 round in most instances.

          the outside walls should be able to carry the load of one layer of bags up about 3-4ft. without risking collapse in a decent wood framed 2×6 house,we have a big upright grand piano that weighs close to 900lbs and it rides ok. and big waterbeds or fish tanks are over that, just wouldn’t try to do the whole wall or entire house , just a safe room/redoubt area and some firing positions around the rest,again wont be pretty but,in that instance pretty will be the last thing you will care about.

      21. Hey is it true that all of congress has left the building this early, before the election(?), and will not return until after the vote. If this is so, WTF is going down between now and the elections(?). Look out for a very big OCT. SURPRISE. Again this could be all B S, I don’t know just asking.

        • copperhead,

          Comepletely true, after failure to get anything done they went on fall break to work on getting more votes. And yes its after the elections when they come back.


      22. Go to original chapters

      23. lets get this party started

        time to panic?
        put on your tinfoil hat ?

        “”Hi George, The eartquake watch starts today and runs till October 5, as weeks ago reported. 3 line Ups with the Earth during this time. Can’t tell an exact date… X flare around September 28-29 Carrington event possible October 3-4 Patrick Geryl ”

        So, if you live on the West Coast, seat belts at work? More tomorrow, same time, same website…”

      24. only way im going to be on the move is to get back to my home, or to hunt, and both of those times I’d be probably on foot, and under the cover of darkness

      25. ok I will load the mini van with my stuff and me in the kids in my elentra, we will take our tailer to use as the foundation for our new home and gear up and go into the woods…..mmmm flat tire prob a mile into the woods because any roads will surely be seen by airplanes etc that will notify tptb. but what the heck it will be a scraming fun time with a toddler and a 20 year old girl. PLEASE who is this rambo that wrote this. IF it is THAT bad by the time ya realize you need to get out of Dodge well I can bet you will not be getting far at that point.

        • I got the same feeling when I read it. Seemed like parts were written by someone not so qualified.So I went to his site and checked it out says he:
          -served US/Brit Military
          -contractor for US Gov.
          -two years Brit Gov-Op Sec
          -British Special Operations Forces
          -Six operational deployments
          -1 tour training and selecting recruits for the Regiment
          -Passed Parachute Regiment selection and also UK Special Forces Aptitude Selection
          -Retired from the British Army in 2003.
          -Five years-Sec.Contractor(Merc)-Iraq and Afghan.
          -U.S. Army Combat Medic
          -Civil Affairs Specialist

      26. You all watch too much tv.. Nothing is going to happen.. All is well..

        The rich ain’t going to kill the ones who keep making them $!

        So relax.. Live, love and learn

        • You need to learn about the Cycles of pump and dump.
          They profit on the way up, and make killings on the way down. On the way down is when they end up owning everything.
          We do not refer to useful idiots who worship The System,
          only the Head of Gold, that loves control.
          Evil worships POWER.
          Wake up.
          But then, you probably will say there is no such thing as evil, eh?…

      27. Sorry but I have to say the article was more like a sell ad to me..


      28. Carport Commando material. As some wag said about gunfighting, “if you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck”. In this case, if you find yourself trying to run through a war zone in a Ford Explorer, you shoulda bugged out years ago. I will have no sympathy.

      29. I don’t understand why so many are so hostile to this article. If you have ever been in “obsessed ” traffic, you understand the idea of moving while being unimportant, non threatening, and as unnoticeable as possible. I survived the shooting in North Hollywood California-yeah the Russian gunslingers in full OPS wear-by being cooperative with the police doing perimeter duty, not being hysterical or drawing attention to myself and my passengers, and working my way down side streets in the most unobtrusive manner possible. It is amazing what you can do in a full panic mode! I love California, I must; I have driven through earthquakes, riots, the threat of the Sepulveda Dam collapse, 405 freeway chases, etc. Now living in Northern California, and driving through Stockton to visit a friend In Brentwood; I consider it just keeping up on my driving skills. The most important idea is to draw Harry Potter’s Invisibility Cloak around you. Be polite or threatening or whatever you need to be-but be forgettable and unseen. In a SHTF scenario, your only real objective is to get from where you are to where you need to be-in one whole piece!

        • What’s the big deal about driving through Stockton? You want a medal or something for bravery? It’s not a bad place except like in most cities there are areas you stay away from mostly at night.

      30. 63 Lincoln with 5 of my bad ass friends carrying and a trunk full of bad ass accessories. Run flat tires of course.

        • A trunk load of extra gas cans for that beast.

      31. This is great – you agrressive individualists will all have shot each other, leaving a cleaner world for people who have more sense.

        The only way to survive is part of a viable GROUP, that means building trust in a community – as Good ‘ol US frontier folk used to do!

      32. It is fun to see the paranoia of different folk and their willingness to kill others. The idea of moving from one location to another is a potential scary situation, especially if young kids are involved. Not all of can live in the American redoubt. It doesn’t matter how much one is prepared or how many guns you have, if you are forced to relocate you have a big bull’s eye on your back. This is a situation which requires preparation and willingness on all involved. I liked the article because it enlightened me in areas I haven’t previously thought. Personally I hope my preps are adequate so I can stay-put.

      33. I really enjoyed reading your article. I have been stressing thinking about what the realisitic phases of the collapse may look like for the half-prepped with no retreats available. I think that gold-standard is probably something we may all have easily obtained about 100 years ago when we lived in an agrarian and/or frontier type society. Now we have been centralized and hooked into a food delivery system. Our biggest problem is that we are not prepared for the violence and thievery I have seen in other countries. Other people in other countries have been living in a WROL and TEOTWAWKI type environment for generations. Until recently, our country has had the benefit of an overall rule of law, little public corruption, and strong morale values. Our infrastructure such as our cities and suburbs are designed to be dependant on eletricity and a no threat society. We have no walls or fences around our houses. Most people live in stick homes that have no ballistic protection and don’t have basic fortifications to repel marauders. We live in small nuclear families without access to family country homes. It’s going to be difficult to obtain water when the power goes out and like you wrote–there is a limit even for a well prepared person. Eventually we will need to live the old-fashioned way. I’m not sure how this will play out and if we will be able to over come the long term difficulties, but I felt better knowing that I am not the only one laying awake nights trying to contingency plan this thing out. Just like I remember to go back to basics when shooting by concentrating on the front sight; I remember to keep my focus on Jesus. I just hope that whatever happens, I can be a positive asset to the right people; especially my family.

      34. Greetings Everyone!
        In my humble opinion….
        A somewhat lengthy article on what amounts to “be extremely aware of your surroundings if you drive thru dangerous places”.That could apply to any American city in these times.If TPTB(And nothing they “cause” surprises me,but I do get amazed now and then)permit things to get VERY,VERY BAD,then they will be the ones to be afraid of(check points,mass arrests,street snatching etc..).If you notice things going FUBAR near your home and getting closer,you had better have a BOB ready and be locking up and LEAVE.Where to go is what you might try planning for NOW.If course if things go FUBAR everywhere,then it’s been fun to post here folks.
        All the Best to Everyone here(including the spooks,trolls and their Ilk,God knows what they’re up to and who pulls their chain,but there’s no place to hide from our Creator during Judgement Day!)
        On A lighter note,
        Hope Everyone has a warm,safe place to sleep and food for this day.

      35. If your city gets nuked maybe 6 months supply in your house is not good enough if your going to die from radiation exposure. Economic calamadies you may have time to plan for a bug out. If yo ubug out by mistake you can always come back as it was a extended vacation. In a nuking, best to be so aware to be the first to leave. Seeing your neighbor military leaving suddenly for a underground site may be the first sign. If it gets that bad I would rather be in another country first and hiding there as one of the locals.

      36. the vast majority reading this story are never going to do any of the things the author says. Most people reading this, myself included, are going to stay right where I’m at, and try to get some neighbors involved in some kind of a plan for group safety and well being. common sense approaches, using deadly force as necessary, but always trying to use a common sense approach as much as possible.
        I think the ability to adapt to the situation, and overcome adverse conditions, will be the plan of the day.
        In the end, each man will make his best decision as he is able, and live or die with the consequences.

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