Education After the Collapse – School When There Is No Classroom

by | Sep 23, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 214 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    For those of us paying attention to what’s happening in the world around us, the coming collapse is a foregone conclusion. All signs point to the inevitable: that an event, or series of events, will soon lead the world into what can be described as a modern period of the Dark Ages. Food will become scarce, violence will thrive, disease will spread, governments will turn on their people, and the fragile social fabric that has maintained relative peace throughout the Western world will  unravel.

    As Todd Sepulveda writes in his latest e-book, Education After the Collapse:

    It’s only in the movies, apocalypse. I hope so. But what if?

    It’s not too hard to make the jump from our nice manicured lawns, suburban neighborhoods, Starbucks, 401K lives. On any given day TEOTWAWKI (The end of the world as we know it) can happen. Yes, this happens frequently on an individual or family level: losing a loved one, major medical situation, loss of a job, etc. However, it is not in the scope of this book to talk about those specific situations, or on a small level. The focus of this book is on “the big one.”

    The big one could be a great number of things. A quick search on the internet will bring you a wide variety of scenarios. Or, just take a look at Matthew Stein’s article “Six Trends Converging on Collapse.” (Stein)

    Even if we don’t ever have the “big one,” we are living unsustainable lives in which at some point, it will all come to a head.

    Many of us prepare for ‘the big one.’ It really can come at anytime. And when it does those of us who saw it coming will have ample supplies of food, off-grid tools, homesteading skills and contingencies to deal with the inevitable hordes that will come looking to take what they failed to prepare.

    One oft overlooked aspect of the aftermath of collapse, however, is the development of skills and education for the next generation – our kids and grandchildren. If the existing paradigm were to collapse, how will we raise those who will take over when we’re gone? What will we teach them?

    Todd Sepulveda tackles this subject with his latest project, Education that Matters (, and discusses some key strategies for addressing the issue in his primer on Education After the Collapse (free e-book download).

    As an educator, administrator, preacher and prepper, Todd sets the stage for a preparedness aspect that simply cannot be ignored. If it all does come crashing down, will we let all of our knowledge die with us? Will the math, the science, the history, the novels, the art, the study of human nature, religion and our spirituality go the way of the Library of Alexandria, to be forever lost in a pile of ash and rubble? Or will we pass on the centuries of acquired human knowledge to our children, so that they can help to rebuild a once great civilization?

    After the collapse we’ll have the opportunity to create a new system of education – one that doesn’t put 30 children in a classroom for hours at a time and forces them to digest materials that bore them to sleep or that they will never use. We’ll have the chance to integrate their education into their lifestyles. It’ll be a chance to start over with novel methods of teaching, something Education After the Collapse takes note of:

    One size doesn’t fit all – They say that schools and churches are the slowest industries to reform. I have experience in both, and the statement is true. Our current form of education is based on the industrial revolution, when factories needed workers for the assembly lines.

    Students start their “shifts” at the same time, sit in straight lines, go to lunch, recess, sit in straight lines again and go home. The same is repeated 5 days a week!

    What worked for you in your day, might not be the best learning environment for your child. Yes, there needs to be structure: a place to work, a time frame to do it in, work that should be accomplished. But that place doesn’t need to look like a traditional school house or desk. Your child might work better outside in the fresh air. Sitting in a chair for 7 hours might not be the best thing for your child either. Could you do that? They need frequent breaks and time to process what has been learned before jumping to the next thing. There should be work, but working through a workbook might not be the answer.

    Whatever the structure looks like, it should be established and revisited to find the optimal learning environment for your child.

    With all of the time and effort you’ve spent on traditional preparedness-minded supplies, how much thought have you given to the educational aspects of post-collapse survival?

    Our children will certainly learn how to grow or hunt for their own food, raise livestock, how to defend themselves, and how to utilize tools at homesteads and retreats. But what about the other skills? We’ve all gone to school and likely have a moderate to high level of education in mathematics and reading, but will we remember it all so that we can pass on this critical information?

    Having age-appropriate educational materials on hand is certainly a plus. Considering alternatives, such as returning to tutor and apprentice style educational formats will perhaps be even more important. Most of us are not trained educators, but each of us has skills, ideas and belief systems we can share and pass on to others.

    Basic education is a must, as the world will recover in time.

    At ED That Matters, Todd shares his insights, as well the insights of other educators to help prepare all of us for when there are no classrooms.

    We strongly suggest you read his e-book to gather some initial ideas on where to start, and follow his web site for a continuing education…on education.

    Surviving won’t be enough. We must also learn to thrive in a new world that will need to be built from the ground up. It’s our children that will be doing the heavy lifting. We should, thus, give them every opportunity to succeed.


    Todd Sepulveda is the web master of the popular daily destination for all things preparedness at Prepper Website

    In addition to his work on post-collapse education (, Todd is also involved in the permanent archiving of essential preparedness and survival resources via the The Preparedness Review web site (a proverbial Library of Alexandria for Preppers).

    Education After the Collapse – E-book Download


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      1. It will be like it always was in the past – the parents teach their kids! Wow what a concept!

        • Nothing could be better for our children as far as education goes than to have the entire educational system collapse. It is geared toward indoctrination, not teaching.

          KMc is right.

          The world will not lose knowledge if the US collapses, It will gain freedom, which will increase our knowledge in due time.

          Even if the whole world suffers catastrophe, the ending of “organized” education controlled by “government” will lead to improved knowledge of the things that really matter, and losing the knowledge of things that impede the progress of Man.

          • However, in the same way we can not kill off the cockroach, somehow I expect the teacher’s union to survive…..


            • Two things:

              1) unions are surprisingly fragile. They require government to help keep them alive.

              2) cockroaches are actually tropical animals. Without heat, they die off too. 😉

            • One more thing…

              The Underground History of American Education:

              You can read the whole book for free right there online, or you can buy the book if you like what you’re reading.

              It’s a pretty good resource for making a working education system.

            • Mac, off subject but what happened to the article concerning the old prepper that left behind 7 mill in gold?

            • Yes, those two..and Cher.

          • Survival Blog has a great list of “recommended books” for adults and children to add to your home library.

            Click on “Book and Video Shelf” link and scroll down to view the list.

            (It won’t let me post the direct link here, I post and it just ‘disappears’.)

        • “the parents teach their kids!”

          And this could mean we could actually have close FAMILIES again.

          I know my co-workers more, than I do my family.

          • If you know your co-workers better then your family, perhaps you should reprioritize now rather then later. I work for my faimly, not work and and have a family on the side.

            • @ countrygirl;

              You are truly bless with your current situation., unfortunately, my family does not own a business or able to employ anyone.

              We live in a time that most families are separated from each other because of jobs., not like a 60 plus years ago where most families farmed together.

              Have a good evening. 🙂

            • country girl…I love your response. You are pretty awesome.

            • “I work for my faimly, not work and and have a family on the side.”

              I did the math for you (below). Everyone who works full time, “For their family” spends much more time with their coworkers, than their families. IF you ever have to do an “Hour accountability” chart, and see what you actually do in a day, you’d realize that even if you spend every waking hour getting to know your family, you still have roughly have as much time as you do to get to know your coworkers. The system is setup that way, and that’s exactly what Eagledove was lamenting, (s/)he wants the system to change. No arrogant B.S. about his/her priorities was needed.

            • I’m a typo guy, so sorry fr them. The sentence in the above post was to read, “you still have roughly ha[lf] as much time as you do to get to know your coworkers”

              In an average work day, one has half the waking time to spend with family than with coworkers.

          • EAGLEDOVE, you may a great post, and got a stupid reply that implies you don’t prioritize your family. I’m going to help countrygirl our with her math.

            A day contains 24 hours. Lets assume that both you, and your children, sleep at the same time, for 8 hours. Young children and teens should sleep longer, and many take naps, but lets just assume 8 hours for sleeping. Now we’re down to 16 hours.

            Assuming you don’t bathe and use the restroom with your children, and that you don’t go to work looking like a slob, you probably use about an hour in the morning getting ready, and a half hour through the rest of the day for bathroom breaks. One hour in the mornings is conservative for men that have to 3S and dress professionally, and women who do their hair and makeup. So now, we’re down to 14.5 hours.

            When I lived in the city, I had about a 30 min commute in the morning and 45 min during rush hour at night. I also left 15 min early in case of traffic, and to not be late if there was an issue. I now live in the country. It’s about a 45 min ride “Into town,” and suburbia has the same issue. So, now we’re down to 13 hours.

            The average full-time worker is at work for 8.5 hours. 8 Hours paid, 30 min unpaid lunch. Most get 2-15 min paid breaks. So, you work with your coworkers for 7.5 hours if you neither lunch, nor break with them, 8 hours if you do either, and 8.5 if you do both. I’ll use 8.

            Now then, assuming that you’re a helicopter mom or dad, and your children never escape your waking (not-at work) sight, your sleep perfectly overlaps, your work/their school perfectly overlap. You have approximately 5 hours MAXIMUM with your kids and 8 hours with your coworkers. Nearly double! That doesn’t include long hours of overtime or salaried work, or your kids having a non revolve-around-you life.

            So, for those not blessed enough to be independently wealthy, or have a spouse that can work for them while they are a stay at home parent, with homeschooled kids (our house had both, and we were very blessed to have that generous gift from God), MOST working people who prioritize their family by actually working, only get to see their family for a fraction of the time that they see their co-workers.

            Oh, and that’s exactly what you said EAGLEDOVE, we could have close families again. That’s why I thumbed up your post, and not thumbed down my nose at you. All good people want more time with their families, whether your homeschool or not, if you have to go to work outside the home for a full time job, you ALWAYS have more time (on an average day, and in an average week) with coworkers than family. 8 hours sleeps, and 8.5 at work, always leaves LESS than 8 at home. A sad fact, and one to aspire to overcome/change, but relevant to the Billions of people that work 40 hours weeks and longer, every week.

            • Well said. We are blessed as well, my hubby owns a family business that’s been running since 1976 & I work from home for/with him, along w a part time secretary so I can also help my kids w/homeschool. We for sure spend more time w each other even though we are working. We eat lunch together, we joke around together, we discuss latest news together, talk about business of course, but can then discuss our personal home life just as well. It has for sure made us a closer family then the family I grew up in where both my parents worked outside the home & my brother & I came home after school to an empty house until 6pm. Then we had roughly 3 hrs a day w parents who were so tired from working And the commute home they just wanted to relax & watch tv.

            • @Stacy

              That does sound good! Who knows if anyone is still reading this article (they die down when they move down a few slots), but that’s a great story/insight. I don’t know if it’s planned, or unintended (probably planned to some degree), but the family is being broken up economically, as well as socially (that IS planned). Imagine if the land out west that FedGov is holding onto was sold to families. Imagine if energy we already have was allowed to flow from the ground. Imagine that the regulatory and tax strangleholds were lifted, and the neo-nazi zoning laws abolished (They are a progessive/globalist/liberal machination, from the 1910’s). You could once again work from home in peace, and it wouldn’t have to be farming (After SB510 that clampdown IS coming, just you wait, like pythons, TPTB strangle their prey slowly when they stop to take a breath).

              This isn’t 1850, telecommunication is advanced, and shipping is easy. Heck, almost all computers now and days (virtually ALL laptops, and a great many desktops), have integrated webcams, face to face meetings, are nice, but not necessary. Imagine is the U.S. was allowed (or had the gumption to stop being repressed) to become exceptional again.

              I worked in my family’s business as a kid and teenager. It has been in business for nearly 100 years. A work ethic is necessary in real life, and it’s best forged as a child. My own kids spent some time with their friends (Especially on the neighborhood playground, they did for about 2 hours a day to unwind), but liked to hang out at home, like to read their scriptures, liked to play with one another (and create their own games, including board games, which we’d help them refine, and played them as a family), liked their home school lessons (they really, really liked scripture discussions, economics, politics, science and reading time, not crazy about math, but liked the tricks/tips, etc). They also enjoyed P.E. as we would walk the 2-3 miles to the library, rather than drive, and the nature walks where we’d go out to look at all of the animals we could find. They loved spending hours on the move, discovering what was around them, and not being (essentially) strapped into a chair and force fed indoctrination, and nasty garbage food. They were all fit as fiddles, eating 4 to 5 nutritious meals a day (I was a personal trainer before marriage), so their tummies were always full, and their brains almost always working. No video games plagued our home, and the TV’s were for DVD’s only, which we did often watch together at the end of the night. Everyone (for the most part), was in bed by 8 or so, and up by 6:00A.

              I cannot stand that the “education” system is simply indoctrinating people to be good little debt vassals for life, family less and relying on the government (taxation) teat. It’s despicable.

            • I have a comment coming through, but misspelled my handle. I’m a glutton for typos!

            • @ DaveyBoy;

              You nailed it on the head and thank you for defending my point with your reply. 🙂 🙂

        • Unless people have the insight to protect BOOKS, the culture will be totally lost. The electronic world will very likely be gone, and unless there is some sort of record for the past centuries something very strange will emerge from the ashes.

          On the positive side, those that survive will likely be the preppers/survivalists and a culture of preparedness and common sense thinking will dominate. Freedom will be respected and made into a basic law that is easy to understand.

          On the negative point, you could have some type of culture that develops that is a kind of ultra-new age that worship some sort of belief that is hollywood (hollyweird) type. Let’s face it, hollyweird has poisoned most of the people’s minds with totally unrealistic movie type of inaccuracy. Sensationalism even with the media has given the culture an unreal sense of the REAL world. Will this be what becomes of people that made it through the true SHTF end of civilization as we know? IF books don’t survive, it sure could be.

          Life experiences teaches, and unfortunately most people have experiences that are totally based on dependency of the government and the society as a whole to live each day. Such as that most people cannot even survive without having someone else prepare their food for them, either in a restaurant, take out, or some pre-packaged manufactured food. So very few understand how to obtain anything from nature, food or water. These individuals will likely not make it, but they could.

          The real equation here is the government. IF there is any type of state left after this happens, they will be able to easily enslave most anyone desperate for food, water, and other necessities. This is a very frightening thought that what could emerge from this are survivors that work for some George Orwell type government that controls every aspect of life. A type of small number of humans left that break their backs for a small number of elitists. Not much different from now other than absolutely no freedoms that many of us now sadly take too much for granted.

          Parents can only teach their offspring so much without a firm foundation to go by. This is why every last prepper/survivalist should make books a total part of their survival supplies. These books should be protected the same as someone that keeps their ammo dry. Books will truly be our ONLY real link to what was. Without books, what was will be exactly that.

          • This all reminds me of the movie “The book of Eli” where in a post SHTF era there is a group of people who’s main mission is to preserve the knowledge and culture for the next generation. This includes books, writtings and artwork of the great masters.

          • I used a can of silicone waterproofing spray on a small bible that I took to the field a lot. My keyring rusted, but the bible lasted and lasted. It might depend on the type of paper or ink, though, so be careful.

            Also, I like the laminated “Quick Reference Guides” from “Barcharts, Inc.” found at college bookstores. The bad thing about them is the fairly limited subject matter.

          • let us not forget to preserve as much of the greatest music recordings as well.

        • A) I am a teacher

          B) I became a teacher to be able to do for other people’s children what I was already doing for my own

          C) Partly because of the economy, partly because I refuse to back down and partly because of basic human pettiness, I have taught in six different schools in the past 12 years

          D) The biggest problems arise not because of teachers, but because of the process by which teachers are chosen…. chosen to be hired, chosen to be fired. In WAY too many cases, the ultimate decision is based on the petty whims of some “hide in the office” administrator who really has no time for the actual children, because they need both hands free for social climbing, nest feathering and empire building

          E) STOP waiting for “the big one”… the SHTF a loooong time ago. Those who gather here are just lucky enough to have finally scraped the excrement from our eyes so that we can see the world as it actually IS, not as we have been told that it is

          F) I am not a “prepper” because I am not waiting for bad shit to happen. Its already happening! I am an AMERICAN because I am a free man and I will be ready no matter what

          • IMO, one of the worst things we did to our educational system was to allow teachers to form a union.

            • Every time I was cut because of “budget problems” or “lack of tenure” or because I wouldn’t smooch someone’s buttocks, I went to “my” union for help, and not once did they lift a finger to help. NOT ONCE. They had their safe cushy jobs, so why risk that by, oh I don’t know, doing what a union is SUPPOSED to be doing?

              After the second time, I stopped paying my dues. Fuck ’em: if all I am is a cash cow to support their efforts to elect people I wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire, then they can do without my money.

              Honestly, at this point, I’m looking to do something else for a living. MY kids are grown, and I’m tired of getting too attached to other people’s kids so that I can get canned for no good reason

            • SonOfSam….I think you hit on it when you said “tenure”. This applies not only to teacher’s unions but private ones as well. Having belonged to several trade unions I know that seniority plays a big role in who keeps their jobs.Seniority, barring any flagrant violations, is the sole determining basis for job retention. Performance plays a very minor role.While I appreciate the value of union benefits the members are generally “cash cows” for the headquarter officers.My pension funds are in “endangered” status and I see little hope in recouping any contributions paid in when it comes time to collect.

            • @SOS:
              bravo for you! I hope you find some wonderful work that you just love.

          • Great post, insightful and accurate.

          • SOS…I had no idea you were an educator. Your post was just awesome. I am sure we would be fast friends. My friends nd family patronize my prepping and it breaks my heart. Bless you and yours.

        • Looking at what the last 3 generations of “parents teaching thier kids” has produced, that’s an unsettling, even somewhat scary proposition.

          • I agree…we have a populace, many of whom are just stupid. Sure, they will blame the system, but these are the same idiots that skipped school, didn’t do their homework, didn’t pay attention, distracted everyone else, etc. And we expect these idiots to teach their own children? Hell, I hear all the time parents telling me, “How can I help them with math? I never passed Algebra.” Ridiculous. The apple doesn’t fall far…

            At some point we have to stop blaming the “system” and start looking in the mirror. There are some bad apples out there in the classroom, but there are more crappy parents out there that don’t want to lift a finger and don’t realize that education is a group effort, not just a teacher effort.

            If done correctly, the system works well (I know…I’ve worked with some of the toughest, poorest kids out there and have helped them learn). So before everyone starts talking shit about all the teachers and the education system, ask yourself if you were a good student? Did you show up prepared daily? Did you do your homework? Did your parents help you? Do you now help your kids with their homework? Are you active in your kids school? Do you volunteer to help kids in your community? Do you know the material as well, if not better, than your kids to teach them? If not, maybe you shouldn’t complain quite so loud, because the blaring nonsense spewing out of your mouth is not supported by your actions. It’s really to sit back and complain than to be a part of the actual solution.

            SonofSam you are correct…the unions aren’t helping, but there are waaaaaay too many horrible administrators that the unions are kind of a way to keep them in check.

            For those of you that are straight haters of the education system and demand reform, walk a mile in my shoes…and you will see that reform starts at home!

            • Well, you are behind in positive votes. That to me says you have raised some hackles and most do not have a way to shave such.

              Yes, dumbed down individuals have created this problem.

              Maybe the world population should be controlled with the ability to educate, not just fornicate!

              Peace. Out.

            • There is plenty of blame to go around. Many parents should take advice from Michael Jackson (frightening, huh) and “start with the man in the mirror”. The fact that a school breakfast or lunch program even exists reflects quite badly on parents. Look around. I don’t see too many emaciated people in USA.

            • There are too many people that expect the schools to teach their children everything, instead of taking the TIME it takes to actually parent. If you’re not involved you can’t complain. Kids are like sponges. They absorb everything. Just getting them out of the front of the TV is a big thing.

        • Bravo K.Mc!


          • Glorified daycares. In buildings that no private business could afford.
            What a racket.
            Then shuffle ALL of them to college, with easy loans.
            Where they are then taught to read.
            But the football is GREAT!
            Why, with today’s technology, are we not educating using the web.
            Because schools are daycare.
            Good people have tried to reform, but the goddamn unions and entrenched administators know where their bread is buttered.
            Rant over. Thumbs down away. I don’t care.

        • Yes, and it’s been going on for the last couple of decades. It’s called Homeschooling! 🙂 If you are homeschooling then you are already a step ahead. And if you are even on this site why do you still have your children in the State-sanctioned jail, I mean schooling system?

      2. One of the most positive things coming from a collapse is that we can kill off the vile and putrid educational system here in the US. 🙂

      3. I home school anyhow. So no difference for me besides not having to send in the paperwork.

      4. My wife and I have three young kids. Two in elementary school and one in pre-school. We’ve discussed this situation a few times.

        If it’s a total collapse, (EMP, solar flare, or God forbid a nuclear war), you’re looking at spending 100% of your time just trying to survive. You’re not going to have time to sit down at the kitchen table and teach your kids some algebra. After a year or two, if you’re still alive, maybe this starts to change and in the waning hours of dusk you can sit down with the kids to teach them some history or math, or even how to READ. What are the most important in order to operate in whatever society develops post-collapse? It’s always the basics:
        1. Reading/Writing
        2. Math
        3. Religion/Morality (Bible study for us)
        4. History/Civics (with commentary about how the collectivist state ruined the US)

        You might be able to give your kids a 6th grade education, plus whatever survival skills you’ve developed… farming, trapping and hunting, reloading, sewing, first aid… whatever. It’s what most kids got in the US in the 19th century. As society recovers, trade specialization will return, but by then we’ll all be long gone.

        The technological knowledge lost will be immense. We’ve come a long way since the horse and buggy. And thinking of the diseases that will return with a vengeance makes me sick to my stomach. But on the other hand, I won’t miss the book “Sally has Two Mommies”.

        Thanks for the article, Mac. My wife and I will check out Mr. Sepulveda’s site this evening.


        • Mal: You are right! At first people will be running around worrying about survival. Then there will be a massive die off. After that is the power struggles. And finally, the settling down and trying to start a working survival community.

          Educating the children will be a long way down the road and may not happen because the need of many hands to keep the homestead moving foreward.

          But there will be 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there where you will be able to sit with your children and young adults and discuss the important things in life and talk about the ideas that will help the young move foreward.

          A younge mind is a terrible thing to wast. It needs to be fed and stimulated to keep it looking foreward and surching for a better tomorrow.

          God bless and keep on prepping.

        • I think you mean “Heather Has Two Mommies”, but Sally may also.

        • MAL
          Don’t worry about teaching in the sernarieo you described, you will be teaching your children without even thinking about it. Children are naturally inquisitive, they will be following you around asking questions, they will be just as interested in surviving as you. Every thing you do while they are around will be class.

      5. Might be a good idea to hide some copies of The Bill of Rights, Constitution, U.S. History, History of The Christian faith and of course the foundation of the West, The Bible.

        All are as valuable as gold.

        • Done, sir; done.

        • Rev Ike: The West was stuck in feudal filth and ignorance until the Reformation and the Age of Enlightenment when men realized that reason and science were the key to man’s future, not blind obedience based on old superstions. Every modern technological and medical convience you enjoy came from science based on reason, not from scipture. In your biblical world we’d still be living under kings desiganted by god to rule over us, women would still be property of their husbands, and every storm and illness would be ‘god’s will’ or his test of ‘your faith’. If you choose to live in darkness, squalor, and ignorance, that’s your business, but that’s not living, it’s just barely existing. No thanks friend.

          • Greg8

            Most of what you wrote is very wrong, or half truths at best. You best go back and study the Reformation you wrote about and the men who started it like Luther, Calvin, and Knoxx. As well as the Founding Fathers Christians all.

            Let me guess, you worship Ayn Rand, don’t you? As God say’s, “A fool says in his heart that there is no God”.

            So please Gregory8, show me absolute proof that there is no God……I’ll be standing by with your less than brillant answer…..God Bless

            • Show me ANY proof, not absolute, ANY proof that there IS a god.
              People that blindly follow their imaginary friend are frightening, and willing to commit all manner of atrocities on the fellow man.
              I don’t worship anyone.
              Nor do I have “faith” in anything.

              “Faith” and “Feelings” are the warm marrow of evil.
              They are the Darkness to the Light of Reason.

            • Rev Ike: I don’t believe in myths, so I don’t worship anything or anyone. But you’ve shown your intolerance and your ignorance like most phony christians I’ve known. Your intolerance is demonstrated by your anger towards those that disagree with you. You’ve shown your ignorance by asking to to disprove a mythical character. He who takes the postive position (that god exists) has the burden of proof (that’s you). The bible was not used by the founders in our constitution, which is the foundation and law of the land. There is not one sentence in the entire constitition that is close to a direct quote from your precious bible. They used the ideas of many great thinkers from the Age of Enlightenment, also known as the Age of Reason. Peace Brother.

            • Anonymous-

              Science does not work that way. Science works on evidence. There is either evidence to support or not support a hypothesis. If the hypothesis is that God exists, then any good scientist simply cannot state with any amount of confidence that there is no God. There are many reasons for this…partly because there is absolutely no evidence to refute the existence of God. Rather, there is quite a bit of substantial evidence to support the existence of God.

              If one chooses not to believe, then that is a choice not based on evidence…however a person has every right to deny the evidence in front of them. For me, I would want to see the evidence that God does not exist to better understand the other side of the argument, because my science based mind works off of evidence.

              The are many sound books out there on this topic…quite a few written by former atheists.

            • In the first few decades since 1492, it was thought that Indians did not have souls because they were “animals” in human form. Therefore, it was believed they could be hunted down like animals, which they were. It was only in 1530 CE that the Pope declared that the Indians were human. Having established their humanity, it was decided that they must be inducted into Christianity. As the Indians were unwilling, this was accomplished by force. Though the change in their status from animal to human might appear to be an improvement, in reality, little changed in their plight.

              Unfortunately for the Indians, with the arrival of Christians would come the intolerance for their indigenous ways of life:
              The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As
              “they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell.”
              What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
              “The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties … They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles… then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive.” [SH72]
              — American Holocaust, by D.Stannard
              Link at The Christian Heritage
              When Columbus landed in America in 1492, he mistook it for India and called the native inhabitants “Indians.” It was his avowed aim to
              “convert the heathen Indians to our Holy Faith”
              that warranted the enslaving and exporting of thousands of Native Americans. That such treatment resulted in complete genocide did not matter as much as that these natives had been given the opportunity of everlasting life through their exposure to Christianity. The same sort of thinking also gave Westerners license to rape women.
              — The Dark Side of Christian History, by Helen Ellerbe
              A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
              In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today. Let us not forget to teach Christianities past as well as present. ( note I am christian but I know the horrors that we as humans have done in the name of god. )

          • Wow, I can just feel all of that sweet christian love. Those of you that are real christians will foregive me and pray for me, the rest of you phony bastards will give me the big ‘thumbs down’. And you all know who you are don’t you!

            • Greg8:

              Why are Christians who disagree with you phony and intolerant? Yours is a liberal mindset: you say you are tolerant, but you don’t tolerate Christians or our disagreement with you. We WILL pray for you because yours is a sad, mistaken and doomed perspective.

              If science is omniscient, tell me this: you must surely “believe in” the law of entropy. How then has the earth and all therein persisted rather than grinding down to a halt as the concept of entropy demands?

              Relinquish your bitterness and resistance to the possibility that God and Christ are just out of your “visual spectrum”. Do you believe only what you see? No. You believe in the atmosphere, you believe in love, you believe that there ARE things that you do not see, nevertheless depend on. He is very, very near to you. If you want to know the truth, He will show it to you. If you truely do not want to know which is the truth, then God will most likely give you what you want – to not know the real truth.

            • Gregory8,
              Being a Christian doesn’t mean you are transformed into something that is no longer human. Christians are just sinners who choose to have faith in God and strive to be better. So many people choose not to have faith in God and be a part of Christianity because they have the false idea that you have to behave perfectly in order to be a Christian. Christians are still humans and still sinners. Having human emotions doesn’t make you a phony Christian.

        • The American Patriot’s Bible (NIV) is NEXT on my list!

          God save our REPUBLIC!

          • GOP4Ever: You’ve got it backwards, I’m disagreeing with them and they take great pains in demouncing me and others who hold similar views with great vehemence and vitriol. For people who are suppose to be filled with god’s love, you all have a funny way of showing it judging by most of these responses. So yes, I call “Phony” on those folks. I’m sure there are a few real christians out there, you may be to be one of them. Science is not all knowing, it it constantly looking for answers and is self-correcting when it makes mistakes and will continue to do so, unlike religion. Christians on the other hand claim to have all of the answers as to how the world works and how society should be run right there in the bible. I have no problem with religious people in general but what I do have a problem with is when these same folks want to enact public policy in accordance with their beliefs upon the rest of us. You have the right to worship at home and in your churches and you can even stand on the street corner and pray out loud but what you cannot do is do these things in public forums like schools and governemnt buildings during meetings, etc. You cannot use the bible to enact laws that effect everyone in society because many of us don’t believe in it. You are allowed by the constitution to conduct your own lives in accordance with your religious beliefs but you are NOT allowed to force those beliefs on everyone else. That is my main objection to religions and their followers. Unlike many of my secular humanist friends, I’m not an atheist, I hold that simply because there is currently a lack of sufficient evidence, like some scientific theories, there could well be a god or creator. The universe is very old and very large and there are still many things to be discovered. It’s all quite wonderous to me! Peace friend.

            • Oh. The irony. Do yo not realize that secular humanism (which atheists ascribe to) is a religion. A religion is a belief system or worldview. Secular humanism is just that and it is preached in every public domain – classrooms, media, government, etc. So while you whine that you don’t want Christians to be free to voice their beliefs in public forums, that is exactly what you ilk does all day long. Your “religion” which is anti-God and pro-state, has been the indoctrination du jour of American classrooms since the 1960’s. You cannot prove evolution any more than you can prove God. So why is your baloney set of beliefs taught in schools and allowed in public system. Like it or not, every single person on this earth is religious. Most of you chose to worship man and creation. Thanks, but I’ll worship the one who created it all.

          • Sunshine: I don’t expect perfection from anyone, but anyone who professes to be filled with the love of god and a changed creature yet acts with such anger towards me and others of differing opinions is not a christian according to the teachings of Christ. All I and my fellow freethinkers want is to left alone and not have your bible and its teaching being used as a guide for public policy. The U.S. is not a theocracy, it’s a secular society. You and your fellow christians are free to practice amongst yourselves per article 1 of the Constitution but you are not free to impose those beliefs on others, either privately or publically. If your god’s message is true then people will surely follow it. Those that don’t must be free to follow their own way even, in your opinion, if it leads to destruction in the end. Live and let live.

            • Gregory, I always appreciate your posts and read them with interest.

              First, your original comment deserved to be scored, just because it was so manifestly wrong. Any scientific innovation that took place in the Renaissance was done while standing on the shoulders of the geniuses of the middle ages. Just look to the cathedrals for the brilliance of the architects and engineers, or to the development of the weaponry for the amazing scientific discoveries in physics and metallurgy. Even Newton was an alchemist. Likewise, Renaissance and Reformation thought had trails blazed in medieval thought. Men like Luther and Erasmus are so fascinating, because they are fully Medieval and fully Modern at the same time…not that concepts so complex can be seen as black/white.

              Regarding this quote: “Those that don’t must be free to follow their own way even, in your opinion, if it leads to destruction in the end.” Well, I’m afraid this is the crux of the problem for us. Whether you look at the welfare slob or the rapacious bankster, in both cases Democracy and Capitalism are failing because they need to be harnessed to the kind of morality that you can find, among other places, in the teachings of Jesus or Paul or Proverbs the 10 Commandments or St. Augustine or St. Francis.

              Of course YOU and all your freethinking friends are 100% moral without any need for scripture whatsoever, just due to your basic awesomeness, but there are quite a few other, uh, “freethinkers” that are absolutely depraved, from white trash tweakers blowing up their toddlers in their meth lab/trailer to the monstrosities spawning in the belly of the inner cities to the sociopathic financier, each of whom is free from any moral compass whatsoever.

              Rather than getting your knickers in a twist over the local nativity display or “phony Christians” giving you a thumbs down, you might want to do an honest assessment of what has happened to our society since God was stripped from the schools over the past couple of decades, to be replaced by Government. The Boomers are now getting the opportunity to reap, in retirement, the harvest they have sown by their attack on the God of their forefathers, but unfortunately it is MY babies who will bear the brunt of the destruction of our cultural institutions. There is a lot to be said for our God-fearing, industrious and practically-educated, highly literate ancestors. We can’t function as a society without that secret sauce.

              And to gut our educational system of one of the greatest literary masterpieces, as well as a foundational document for our entire civilization? It’s freakin’ criminal just from an intellectual standpoint. But I am sure we will get far better results now that basic “great texts” literacy has been replaced by the unit on recycling, or whatever is being taught in public schools nowadays. (My kids are/will be getting a hard core classical & scientific education at the highly regarded Lutheran school attached to our church–no way would I submit them to the tender mercies of a public school).

        • Do not be so daft as to think your country is the be all, end all, though maybe the end will come at the hands of your country.

          There is a world history that MUST BE PRESERVED, not just your small world thinking that has helped cause what is ACTUALLY happening.

          Some of the volumes you have stated are the cause of the problems we face.

          Stay within your prison. We have enough wolves out here to contend with.

          Peace. Put.

          • OCS:

            Blimey, limey!!

          • MamaBear: The difference between you and your religious friends and me and my secular friends is that we don’t need to be bribed with promises of eternal bliss or threatened with eteranl damnation to do the right thing. We do it simply because it’s the right thing and will promote human happiness. We are intelligent enough to make my own decisions. We don’t cop-out and leave it to someone else to do our thinking for us. And shame on you for lumping us in with amoral miscreants and calling them freethinkers. They are non-thinkers. That would be like me pointing out all of the sexual deviants and theives from churches around the country and calling them the flower of christianity. In August’s edition of “Freethought’ on pages 18-19 entitled ‘Black-Collar Crime” it lists all of those arrested, convicted, sentence, and sued for their various crimes. The paper lists the names of the offenders, their church and the perps position within that church, the towns where the crimes were committed, and each specific offense. The local and national news sources are also listed for verification purposes. There were only around 50 names this month. So comparing moral secularists with amoral meth-heads and the like is as mean-spirited as me calling these church deviants equal to the rest of you christians. Shame shame MamaBear. Where does this anger towards us come from I wonder. Peace.

            • Seriously, dude? That’s all you got? “Shame?!” You sound like a caricature of one of those nagging old church ladies. LOL!

              Rather, I think you should be ashamed, due to your READING COMPREHENSION FAIL. I didn’t compare you to the meth heads. I basically stated that I am sure that you and your friends, like overt Christians, are trying to follow the teachings of Jesus as well as humanly possible, but there are a lot of lost and destroyed souls whose lives could be (and have been) changed by following Christ’s moral precepts.

              You should be further ashamed to assume that our theoretical meth heads are thoughtless, unthinking cattle. I suspect that they run the gamut from quite stupid to quite smart, and were certainly capable of freethinking for themselves, at least before they made that destructive decision, from boredom to despair to “freethinking human happiness”, to put that horrible chemical into their bodies.

              I reviewed my post, and tried to discern where, exactly, my “anger” was. I suspect this is another reading comprehension fail, which may also be the cause behind your lack of read undersanding of the dynamics among the late Roman Empire, the rise of Medieval Christendom and the onslaught of Islam. I always teach with love, and even administer well-deserved intellectual smack-downs with love, but never anger. If I didn’t love, I wouldn’t take the time to correct your historical knowledge.

              You, my friend, DO seem to have quite a bit of anger, as I review your many and sundry screeds. You originally attacked Ike for suggesting that the Bible was a document worth preserving, and every post since then has been pretty half-cocked and simply accusing people of things they didn’t do and anger they didn’t display. Defending themselves isn’t anger. Possibly you are the sort of persona that has difficulties in social settings and can’t really “read” others too well. I know a lot of engineer-types like that.

            • PS, I am not the one that down-thumbed you, so please don’t freak out over that.

      6. And don’t forget to bring back the banned psychological science which the ‘education system’ black-listed because it worked to well for the individual who practiced it! All from just reading a paper-back book!

        Numerous books were written on the subject, even books for first graders concerning how their minds work. Everyone was very excited about it in the ’60s, but the system refused to teach it.

        I’m gonna tell you anyway, because without this mankind is KARAYZEE. It’s Transactional Analysis. As in “I’m Ok, You’re OK”

        “Games People Play” is a classic also.

        Just sayin’

        • As far as transactional analysis is concerned, basically all you have to do is nail down the natural explorer behavior of the two year old so that she/he continues on and becomes what is the desired outcome of legitimate education, a learner.

          The teacher/student paradigm is flawed. Kids need to learn how to think, not what to think.

      7. It will be important to have the materials at hand to facilitate the educational process in a post SHTF world.

        If the book that meets your “exact” requirements isn’t available in print ….. then why not ‘make’ your own reference material? I have a small three-ring binder consisting of information that I will likely need in the future, each page encased in a plastic “sheet-protector”.

        Practical math, including trigonometry, + formulas and examples is less than 30 pages. You used to be able to get small booklets with all the trig. tables, formulas and examples for FREE from tool distributors.

        There is also a section covering all the different coins that I am likely to encounter in a post SHTF barter situation; a picture of both sides of the coin, total weight, diameter, thickness, PM weight content as a % of total weight.

        How about knots? You do know how to tie every knot that you are likely to need out there in a post SHTF world?? NO??? Join the club!!! I don’t know them all either. BUT I do have a small booklet that tells me what each individual knot is used for and a diagram on how to tie it.

        Conversion charts for standards and measures from English Standard to Metric are also nice to have around.

        Think about the various situations that you may encounter in a post SHTF world and then gather the information that you feel may be pertinent to your personal future needs.

        Please don’t forget a couple of the classic children’s favorites for story time in the evenings. The TV reception may not be the best in these future days. Dominoes, playing cards, cribbage boards, travel chess/checker sets will all be at a premium.

        Use your imagination and think outside the box. It’s called Creative Visualization; imagine what the future might hold for you and your family and then move to cover any holes in your planning.

        God Bless and good luck to all.

        • The great thing about ebooks is that people are literally GIVING AWAY the paper copies. We moved south a few years ago, had 40 boxes of books, about 3-4000 volumes. The way things are going, I hope to double that number

          I also do stash a lot of ebooks too; been thinking about getting a couple of spare Nooks or Kindles plus some solar adapted chargers. I already have a shitload of flash drives that I store in boxes of ammo…. figured that the lead would shield them from radiation. Don’t know if this will work, hoping I don’t have to find out 🙂

          • Libraries have book give a ways all the time to make way for new purchases. Check with your local librarian for the next one near you. Real bargains on great books can be found. I found two authored by Barry Goldwater.

            They were free.

            • Your local hospital is also a great source of high quality books for on the super-cheap. People go into the hospital and their well meaning friends and family, searching for a gift other than flowers, often times pick them up a book for them to read. Many (most) are left behind when the patient checks out and the hospital auxiliary sells them for pennies on the dollar. You can find even very expensive hard cover books for a couple of bucks.

          • Get newsreader software, such as NewsRover. Find the newsgroups containing reading material: alt.binaries.e-book, alt.binaries.e-book.technical, alt.binaries.e-book.magazines, and There are tens of thousands of books and magazines to download. The best group is alt.binaries.e-book.technical. There are books and magazines there on every subject imaginable, including all of the arts, sciences, and mathematics. Most are PDF files, but some are in other formats, but there are free reading programs available, including Calibre which can convert files. Since PDF is a more standard format, I am converting all my files to PDF. Store them on flash drives, SD cards, or solid state hard drives. Print out the ones you think are most important. With the right software, you can print four pages per sheet of paper and still be able to read the type.

          • Don’t forget to store some of the circuitry in a good Faraday-type manner, or an unexpected EMP could wipe out all of your electronic work! If your nooks are all cooked, the ebooks are useless.

        • One thing I do is keep all of the trash faxes from work instead of putting them in the shred-it pile. While kids are learning to write they go through a lot of paper. I put them in a envelope and write scrap on the outside. I also have little chalkboards, chalk and also a couple of those toys the kids draw on and slide the lever to erase the picture. (Can’t think what they are called)

          • Of course after I post…Magna Doodles.

      8. I too see the education system of today as heavily flawed and for the most part useless. It doesn’t stop at grades 1-12 though. It continues on all through college. People spend thousands of dollars to go to college and further their education in some field or many fields and the majority of the information will be forgotten by the time they are able to use it. Much of the information will never even be used. I have yet to find or hear about a job that doesn’t train you upon entering it and there was a time when you did not need a prior degree to be able to successfully do the work. College is a scam, and unfortunately, it is now a scam the nearly everyone who wants the opportunity to do something with their lives must fall into. I’m sure some would disagree, but I myself have only seen college put people into debt and waste their time. They often aren’t even able to get a job in the field they spent years paying for through college or at a high enough pay to rid themselves of the debt.

        College is likely only a good logical choice for doctors, lawyers or any of the other high paying professions.

        • David: Very true, college today is usually a waste of both time and money. I have a couple of degrees but only for the purposes of ‘imppressing’ employeers. I made six figures my last three years, and nearly that for at least 10. I could have easliy done my job without those degrees. An education use to mean a well rounded amount of reading in all major subject areas from math and science, to philosphy, art and music, literature and foreign languages. Most of what passes for education in colleges and universities today is little more than training in a specific area. Here at our state’s largest university, most undergrads get 12-15 hours of these ‘other’ subjects in their first and second years while they’re already jumping into their particular specialty. With today’s ever-shrinking job market it would be wise for most folks to consider a trade so they can support themselves before getting an ‘education’. But hey, what do I know.

          • A degree used to “set you apart”. Now eveybody “has to have one”. They are cheapened. Every student is not “college material”.
            Schools are glorified daycares. And colleges are a racket to extract money from the population. Thank you government and unions. Screwed the population, again.

            • I do not even both going to the campus to take classes. I take them online. More flexible, but unfortunately it is more expensive.

      9. Our bloated, liberal, tax and spend, socialist, educational system is one of the biggest reasons our country has reached the point we are at now. It is as greedy and burdensome as anything else in this country. The sooner we switch to educational voucher systems and fire these God hating socialist teaching our children, the faster this nation will become competitive. It’s a damn shame they have had free reign to wreak havoc on our nation this long.

        • Or better yet, web based education, and tightly controlled “testing centers”.
          Why have all this expensive infrastruture and workforce.
          Oh yeah, daycare, teacher unions, gov jobs (votes), and indoctrination.

      10. Teachers have lost sight of what their jobs are anyways..its all about the union benifits, the collective barganing, and the strong arming the tax payers..this system of gimme gimme gimme needss to crash..they are not teaching anyways..its just a repetative form of what was done last year and the years new teaching skills, no real life teaching, and nothing to really prep these kidss for what the real future holds for them..they walk out into this world still confused about where they stand in the world markets and jobs, or how to even BALANCE A BUDGET

        or the concepts of if i dont have what it takes to buy this, than i cant have it..maybe i should work harder or gain a more profitable skill to obtain it…hell, they see their own teachers bitch and strike to gain , rather than DO more, or be tested to see if they are really teacching..bad messages being taught to all of these kids

        • Teach the Socratic Dialogs. Encourage questioning and critical thought.

          The sciences will survive because there are so many people who will survive who use aspects of all the scientific and technical knowledge in their daily life. None of the technical sciences are matters of opinion, just simply of fact. Trial and error will confirm this.

          History will be obscured and still subjected to ideological suppression or dissemination, depending on location and realities of the world as it will be then.

          People will need the skills to rebuild the infrastructure, to promote hygiene, to treat trauma and disease, to feed and clothe themselves, to create useful tools and processes and to keep themselves independent and free. *Stuff* that may or may not work will survive and its very existence will encourage people to recreate or revive its functionality.

          Unfortunately, any savvy proto-dictator will immediately round up anyone w/a useful skill, offering food and protection. People will hoard useful items and others will scavenge for them. I fear a Balkan-type experience in any aftermath that qualifies as SHTF. People may therefore also need to first of all school the young in discretion.

          Since the healthy, younger and able-bodied will be forced to take care of immediate basic needs, it may well fall to the elderly, the frail and anyone not able to do physical labor to teach whatever it is they know or to share whatever books they may have.

          If the young become feral and refuse to accept past knowledge, there will be a true new dark age. It is easy to imagine a generation that rejects anything they might blame for the present hard times.

          The world could end up much less free after an Event than it is now. Formal education may only survive within certain families in certain areas.

        • Please dont take any of this personal Son of Sam..Im sure there are good ones out there, it just seems that there are few and far between
          you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, and probably didnt tow the government endoctination line

          • It’s “toe” the…..line. Like walking a straight line in a sobriety checkpoint. Tow makes sense, too, but the correct useage is toe. This may make me useful after the collapse? At least, I hope so. I homeschooled our kids which was exhausting because I had to do constant battle with the state. More warm bodies in the chairs meant more money for the school. All of my kids graduated from either college or trade school, and two of them had a 4.0 GPA. Of course, they are smart kids so it wasn’t too hard to do.

            We own somewhere between 2750 and 3000 books which, if they don’t burn, will be golden in themselves. This wasn’t done due to the collapse, but because I’m a bookaholic. My weak point is advanced math, but my husband is proficient, so am sure we can pass all of this along. At least if the power goes, books may come back as entertainment. I still give them for presents, although I have to say they’re not much appreciated. Maybe some day, they will be again. If you’ve read “Earth Abides”, you know the tragedy of surviving but not passing wisdom along to the mostly uncooperative young.

            I don’t know what will happen to the district’s new school. The old building was set up for 30s style heating and cooling. Now, it’s a super-expensive behemoth, requiring a huge outlay in gas and electricity costs, all passed along to the stressed taxpayer. This is a very poor district and it’s startling to see how many of the residents are proud of this fancy ediface. They can’t afford it, yet it somehow “proves” something to them. The old school was a perfectly beautiful art-deco brick building, but it was old, and the arts aren’t particularly important here. Football is, and tens of thousands were spent on sports facilities for a losing team. People are crazy and needy and hurting.

            • E is close to the W on the key board..sorry, simple mistake and overlooked by my blind old eyes

            • So glad I’m not the only one with a ton or two of books. Literally. Thankfully my whole family loves books and appreciates them as gifts. Kids and grandchildren. If anyone knows a way to catalog them on a droid it would be awesome. I do have a bad habit of buying the same books while at thrift stores yard sales etc. I am helping a son to build his survival library so its not all bad, but you know how it is. That way we have a backup library also. The list at survival blog is a really good one.

        • My school district is pushing yet another tax increase on November’s ballot.
          Last time around, their measure was defeated.
          Just out of curiosity, I looked at the current budget put out by the school board.
          They’re spending the reserves.
          The reserves were created to pay for stuff that wears out, roofs, boilers, etc.
          The budget has sufficient detail that I was able to discover rates of pay for positions; not individuals “Jane Smith makes this much”, but “Administrative Assistant makes this much”.
          Our district has quite a few (over a dozen, actually) Administrative Assistants that earn over $61,000 per year.
          Plus pension and benefits of 24%, we’re talking a salary burden of $75,000 per year. For a secretary.

          There is NO WAY I’m voting in favor of a tax increase with that kind of thing going on.
          “Oh, but she’s been here for 20 years! We can’t fire her!”

          District spends something like $20,000 per year on Food & Beverage expense at meetings.
          Bring your own coffee; maybe you’ll still have a job next year.

          • maybe we should make everyone who has children home school them so those of us who have no children, do not have to share the expenses for a service we have no need for.

            • I’m a homeschooling mother of two, and I’m all for that. However, if you took part in public education as a youth, then you or your parents should be responsible for the cost of you.
              I hate the fact that my tax dollars go to educating – more accurately providing day care for – other people’s children. I should be able to use that money for our own school expenses rather than barely being able to scrounge together the money to purchase what we need.
              Parents use schools as daycare. Period. I know first hand all of my public school mom friends count down the days until back to school so that they can have their days to themselves again.
              I find it is extremely rare that homeschooling can’t be done due to financial reasons. The “I have to work” excuse doesn’t cut it. What it usually boils down to is “i have to work to keep up my current lifestyle status” rather than cutting down on the luxuries in order to do what is best for your children. People are just selfish and the children and society pay the price.

            • Eh. I don’t mind paying the (relative) pittance of our taxes that go to our schools–at least they are somewhat accountable to us, they are local, and at least we are getting, in most cases, an actual product in our mid-sized city. Most of the kids rolling off the assembly line at least have a half-assed education; I will pick that over completely ignorant savagery any day. I wish more of the tens of thousands we pay to fedgov could go directly to our schools, and private school vouchers, rather than being laundered through the federal system.

              We pay for our kids to go to private school (and it says a lot about the treasure that Lutherans and Catholics see in education, that so many congregations give and give and sacrifice to run a school) but I went to a city school growing up and got a very strong education that has served me well my whole life, and that gave me entree into two of the finest universities in the world. Although most of the kids in my honors and AP classes moved away to fancier places, my husband and I have stayed, and so our taxes go back into the system, even if our kids don’t.

              I also don’t mind my taxes going to the local library system, which is an absolute treasure chest of wonders and resources; a beautiful building that is extremely attractive to our kids. Of course, if the jackbooted thugs force me to homeschool, they would probably also burn down the library, so…note to self that I have an excuse to buy even MORE books!

        • But, but… what about the children? It’s all for the children. the children. the children. the children.
          And please don’t forget. It’s all about the children.

        • VRF…You’re gonna need to step back a bit there. I am sooooo over people throwing this pitch out there assuming they understand what is best for kids. So, let’s ask these questions for all of you that THINK they know what is best for education reform:

          When was the last time you offered to work in a classroom? Help kids (yours or others) with homework? Teach a group of kids something they aren’t interested in? Tutor? Host a class for kids on any topic? Volunteer as a scout or youth leader? Hold a conversation with kids that aren’t yours?

          How were you as a student? Did you study hard? Did you show up prepared? Did you pay attention? Did you distract others?

          Why don’t we all take a moment and look in the mirror and really ask ourselves what we are doing to better education. If you are doing nothing other than complaining, then stop. Because your actions are NOT speaking louder than your words.

          But let’s be honest…teachers are paid crap. I don’t care about what you’ve heard about these high profile districts, the average teacher is paid crap. The benefits aren’t much better. For the amount of education that we are required to have to teach and the actual hours we put in, we simply are not compensated. How seriously would a doctor take his or her job if they made $45,000/year? And doctors only save the life they are given that day. Teachers…well, we mold and sometimes even save lives daily. We educate those doctors, nurses, engineers, businessmen and women. Teaching is possibly one of the hardest jobs out there and the monetary rewards are slim to none. You have to have some serious grit to make it past 3 years, much less find joy after you’ve seen your 20th student give birth to a baby out of wedlock.

          The system can and does work…I know. I’ve done it and I do it DAILY! The system requires the work of schools, families, community…NOT just teachers. So, instead of yelling at the teachers and the unions, let’s start with the home front. Most of the problems start and end there.

          • What is your opinion of trade/vocational school teachers as they apply to the educational system.

            • Honestly…I think trade/vocational programs are fantastic! I wish that they could be more integrated within schools, however many public (including charter) schools are finding success in bringing trade programs back in. The teachers that traditionally teach these classes have actually worked in these fields, which is awesome. They provide real world application of the problems that arise and how to deal with it. Good stuff, in my opinion. not every kid should, or needs to, go to college. Trade schools are a perfect alternative.

              but that’s just my two cents. 🙂

            • What’s the point. We don’t “make” things anymore. That is a generalization, i know, but it is the trend.
              So what do we train for? Machinists, welders,pipefitters,auto mechanics, farmers,???
              We are rudderless. There are still talanted tradespeople in this country, but they are aging, and the kids don’t want to get their hands dirty.
              Plus, watch them. They can’t survive 30 seconds without tweeting or talking on their personal communicator.
              Things don’t work if everybody has a desk job. This economy is the proof. We HAVE to make things.

              Oh, and this should piss a few off. Every warm body that makes it in and joins the union is not worthy of exorbitant pay, benefits and protection. One, of many, reasons so many jobs fled the country.
              I could WRITE A BOOK on the stories of slackers and waste,fraud and abuse perpetrated by union protected employees. Ask, and I’ll expound.

          • That’s the truth. Good teachers are great and bad ones are just that.

            I had a problem one year and was told that it was ok because the teacher was going to another school next year. I said I still had 4 children to go through “the other school” and if she ever taught another one of mine I would pull them all out and home school them.

            Parents need to be advocates for their children and the good teachers. And be a voice when there is a bad one.

            If I had 30 kids a day for 8 hours, I would need a 3 month vacation too. I’d like to see any of us who aren’t teachers to try it some time. It’s hard ass work and thankless at that.

          • Oh please. I was an elementary teacher. I now homeschool because of the crap that is pushed as education and the lazy teachers who are only in it for a paycheck and benefits. Teachers are paid plenty. Rarely can someone just out of college snap up a job making $35k a year, with nice long holidays and summer vacations. The teaching profession has become a joke. The education required to become a teacher is a joke – any lackey who shows up for class and does half ass work can get a degree. All they teach is psychology and classroom management anyway. I just can’t stand how some teachers think they should be put on a pedestal because their job is sooooo hard, and they work for peanuts. Give it up. You aren’t fooling anyone. Good teachers facilitate and encourage the love of learning. American schools have long abandoned that notion if it was ever there in the first place. Get off your high horse.

        • The CPS teachers’ biggest gripe was the notion of performance evaluations. I suggest that they be given everything they want with the stipulstion that they live in the district where they work and are not allowed to send their own children to private school.

      11. The only thing that will happen is one form of indoctrination; the current form of education; will be replaced by another, more nefarious form. Based upon the copmments I see here, the succeeding form of indoctrination will be based upon some form of religious fascism where facts matter little but mythologies and fact twisting prevail. If the colapse occurs, look for book burnings and the like as the religious fanatics attempt to control the flow of information and mold people’s minds to serve the fanatics. You sheeple are too stupid to see that you are willing to trade one form of oppression for another, more deadly form.

        • Joe,

          Did your crystal ball tell you that?

          • Perhaps not, but it’s happened before, and could too easily happen again.

        • Yes. Yes. Bring on the next inquisision. Lots of Heretics and Heathens in our group.

        • Joe, the difference between religion and collectivism is that the former at least pays tribute to the noblest virtues of mankind and to something higher than itself. However corrupt earthly Christian authorities may have been, they have been reined in by the values of the very faith they’ve professed, which teaches both a basic equality of man in the sight of God and the idea that this world is ultimately unimportant when compared with eternity. Under collectivism, however, the earthly “struggle” (however that is defined, e.g. by race, sex, class etc.) is the only real thing of importance, and you can’t have a struggle without enemies (who can be invented if necessary). Collectivism is much more likely to result in tyranny than Christianity, as is obviously attested by the many dozens of millions of people murdered over the past one hundred years by non-theistic political systems. Christianity has never even remotely approached a death toll of this sort.

          You cannot have “religious fascism” as such because fascism exalts the supremacy of the State over everything else, including faith.

        • JoeinNC: Excellent take Joe, that’s often the course when things ‘go bad’, religious fanatics want to blame someone so they go after the free thinkers. In their ignorance they ban and even burn books that contradict their beliefs and a form of theocratic fascism takes over, as in Iran. When our filthy, illiterate ancestors were wiping their greasy fingers on their clothes in damp thatched huts during the dark ages where religion ruled, the Arabs were busy making advances in astronomy, they invented algerba, made medical discovers, and began translating copies of most of the great Greek writers we know today. Then they slowly devolved into religious fanaticism which has culinated into what we see today. In the mean time, Europe had the Enlightenment where science advanced based on reason and began to throw aside superstitions. But it looks as though we may begin to devolve once again should religious nuts get into power in a serious decline. My challenge to all of those folks is that the next time one of you gets sick, don’t use modern medicine brought to by men of science guided by reason, but rather pray since it must be god’s will and your illness or injury is just a test of your faith. Besides, you have nothing to fear, because to be absent from the body is to be with the lord, so just have faith. I’m going to get a lot of hate mail for this one, especially from the real christian phonies out there. Bring it on you hypocrites! A true christian would forgive me and even pray for me and you Joe. I wonder if there are any in this group. We’re about to see.

          • Let’s bring it up a notch. What do you all think about the Pope? Or past Pope’s What wealth is there in the Vactican. What mysteries lie hidden within the confines of that library. Tighter than our NSA/CIA/FBI files.

          • G8:

            Why can “real Christians” not disagree with you? Are you THAT sure you are correct? Demonstrate the tolerance you want from others………

            • Any reasonably educated person, Christian or otherwise, pretty much HAS to disagree with Gregory, at least on this string of posts. He is just in a nasty, hate-mongering mood for some reason.

              Once again, he shows a kernal of truth but not an actual grasp of the world in the so-called “Dark Ages.” I think Mohammed and his followers were as fanatical as they come, considering that they were converting the Eastern Roman Empire at swordpoint (well, you could convert, you could die, or you could accept the degraded status of the Dhimmi as long as you paid punitive taxes to be allowed to keep your beliefs; later you were outright killed, as with the Turkish Armenians, or whatever is in the pipeline for the Copts in Egypt today).

              Islam benefited from conquering the highly literate, enlightened Byzantine (Christian) Empire, and certainly added its own crown jewels as well (Gregory forgot arabic numberals and the concept of zero). The Western Empire had the seriously bad luck of falling to completely illiterate and pagan Germanic tribes, that just ground every bit of culture and learning into the mud. Waves upon waves upon waves of marauding tribes, so once once tribe got a little settled and ready for literacy/Christianity, another tribe was going berserk. Once the Germans became Christian, the former Western Empire turned around, particularly under Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire, which brought us the glories of the High Middle Ages and eventually the Renaissance.

              Of course you still had the dumbasses that pillaged the great Library of Constantinople in the 4th Crusade, but it is still not as comprehensive as the Mohammadean bloodshed.

        • JoeinNC, I see what you’re talking about happening now—religious fanatics try to do away with porn, books that they don’t like or agree with, NOW. Heck, they even tried to stop HARRY POTTER movies because they said it glorified witchcraft!

          I can indeed imagine how it could get out of hand after a SHTF event. I don’t think ALL religious people are fanatics, but enough are, to be a viable problem, if given half a chance.

          Just for the record, I AM A CHRISTIAN, but not a religious FANATIC. I don’t do porn, but I defend the right of others to have it if they wish, as long as it’s not on my face. I don’t see many other Christians as tolerant as I.

          Feel free to thumbs down if the truth (as I see it) hurts…

      12. The truth is, there are more parents that do not want to teach their kids then their are who would want to teach their kids. If things do completely collapse, and I emphasize the word if because in my opinion it is not a forgone conclusion, things can change for the better and nothing is written in stone, other than the fact that you will die one day. Society will not change in the blink of an eye. People will not suddenly become decent and caring with their kids future, they will be concerned with themselves, just the way they are now. I think some of you have a vision in your heads of how it will all be so much like the old frontier days, hand washing the clothes, gathering food from the harvest, home schooling your kids, hunting for meat, gathering for church socials etc. This aint the frontier days, they are gone forever, this society is spoiled, selfish, uneducated and cowardly. For me, I will accept the fact that God will clean house one day and what is left may be just about nothing here. Either way, it will be something that we do not expect, we do not know and we will not be ready for unless we get our priorities straight and start that new way of life now, not when we think we will be forced to. It’s easy to talk the talk but not so easy to walk the walk.

        Why do we outsource our kids education anyhow? Why isn’t everyone more involved in their kids education. I never understood why a woman would have a child and go back to full time employment after the kid was a few weeks old. These parents spend more time finding day care than they do figuring out how to raise their own kids. Then when they are five, ship them off to a building where they are one among many and expect some stranger to teach them all the important things in life. After work, you come home and make dinner, maybe some laundry, get ready to the next work day and bam, you turn around and when that kid is 18, he spits in your face and you wonder why? You didn’t raise that kid, somebody else did.

        For the ones that scream I’m a chauvinist pig, not so fast. If you are married and together you decide to have a child but intend to both continue full time work outside the home, then you are not having a child for the right reason. If you can’t raise your own kid then don’t have one. For the divorcees, you should have done your homework before you married the jerk and had kids with them. For the single parents who want a kid without having a significant other, you are the epitome of selfishness. Kids are not pets, they are the future, start looking at them that way, take your job as a parent more seriously.

        • My thumbs up!

          • Great points. A little ( or a lot) more personal responsibility.
            How dare you burden everybody else.
            I love the people who sue the system because THEIR callenged in some way offspring DESERVE to be taken care of by everybody else.
            For my money, take the 10 smartest,and most driven kids at say, 6th grade. Give them the best of the best of the best. they are the ones who will make society better.
            Why spend inordinate amoumts of resources on … well you know. Don’t want to hurt any feelings.
            And while I’m at it; Memo. If you make minimum wage, your probably an idiot and shouldn’t be breeding. Can’t raise a family on min wage? No kidding moron.

            Oh, and before somebody makes the point. I know the idea of a free education is for the benefit of society as a whole. I get it. I just feel we are not getting a good ROI as the system stands now. Free is being abused.

        • Thank you, Tommy Boy. As a mother who chose to stay home with my kids instead of continuing ‘the career path’, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never regretted the choice to stay home. To be honest, I believe as you do — child-rearing is an obligation that you OWE your child and your family because you are the provider, the caregiver, the nurturer.

          The most important job in my life has been raising the children — it has also been the most difficult. I wouldn’t have traded raising my children for anything.

          • I would be very interested how you accomplished that with no money/income? I would walk away from my job tomorrow first thing if you’d share that secret…

            • Secret? There’s no secret to a traditional family unit. I don’t suppose you remember that it takes TWO to create a child?

            • Let me spell it out for you:

              A father who provides for his family + a mother who cares for her family (ie – stays at home to actually raise their own children) – luxury and non-necessity items (ie – cut back on the crap that you don’t need) + faith in God (the cement to hold it together) = SUCCESSFUL FAMILY UNIT

              Can it be done without any of the above? It has been, but your chances are very, very, slim.

        • WOW..What a great post. I’m glad we have slowed things down from prepping and killing and guns and violence to thinking about our kids. My oldest son broke my heart today with his excuses as to why he can’t spend time with me. I was there and I cared and now I am just a pain in his ass. I am so confused and hurt and all i can do is cry. I am glad to see others love their kids and want the best, but it doesn’t always turn out the way you expect.0

          • Blackriflewarrior:

            I am so sorry to read about your son and you. I hope perhaps he is a teen, or in his 20’s, at which time kids often become aloof and indifferent to parents. If you can weather the storm, they most often come back around, and are sorry about this phase they went through. I am so sorry you are sad.

          • BRW ~ Kids can definitely break your heart like no one else. I remember reading something that said it is a natural phase of development for our kids to reject us at some point – it’w apparently how they become independent adults. But it stinks that it has to hurt so much.

            You seem like a really good person – I strongly believe he’ll be back soon. Big hugs to you, friend.

        • All good points. It wasn’t until I was 30 that I felt capable of raising another human. Very late in my group of ‘friends’. The way I’ve saw it in my red-neck part of the world is that having a baby is usually an after-thought, or more likely an accident and usual an inconvenient burden to weekends looking for a baby-sitter. Since I pre-planned, and then checked the lists twice (actually several 100x) I was an anomaly. I loved and cherished every minute of watching little wee reach maturity and rewarded (richly) accordingly. It really comes down to priorities and unfortunately most enter with no thought of the out-come.
          ~..~ greatly outnumbered, but I know how the story ends 😉

        • As a former teacher, you are right. And as one owner/teacher with a pre-school daycare for 4 years, you are even more than right.

          ~~~You didn’t raise that kid, somebody else did.~~~

          It only takes a person good in math to figure out it is NOT cost effective for a daycare while you work; working moms is an invention of the communists to steal your kids convincing you it is a-okay to let someone else raise your kids.

          • I hope to God you didn’t teach math. And I’m glad you’re not in the classroom with impressionable kids any longer. Geeze.

            • So am I.

        • Tommy Boy: Well you know what they say about opinions, they’re a lot like buttholes; and your’s is especially big and smelly. Where do you get off telling people about doing ‘homework’ on their prospective spouses, people do the best they can. But I’m sure you’re Mr. Perfect in your own little mind. And single parents can be just as good as a couple of married jerks, selfishness has nothing to do with it. Who the hell do you think you are telling a couple that they’re having a child for the wrong reason because they both work. Maybe they both have to you clown. You’re a Ward Cleaver/Father Knows Best wannabe still stuck in 1959. You want to live in that phony whitebread conservative fantasy, go right ahead, but you can go piss up a rope with your inconsiderate and unsolicited advise. And you really need to grow up and stop living in that black-and-white tv world of yours. It’s not real and it never was.

          • Gregory8,

            Guess what, I am grown up and I am happy and I have pretty well adjusted, productive grown up kids. It’s real alright and I am sorry that you can’t see that. I am not a wannabe as you stated, I am living proof that the recipe for a good life is simple, raise your own kids, be a good example for them and look on the bright side of life. Isn’t that what the good Lord intended?

            People spend more time defending what does not work then praising what does work. If you think that I am going to make excuses for a couple that purposely has kids, knowing that they will both continue to work full time and have someone else raise them, then you are sadly mistaken. Ask any kid when they are grown up, how they would have changed things if they could go back in time. It is really sad the think that I am demeaned because I believe you should raise your own kids. This is what is wrong with America, absentee Fathers, absentee Mothers, absentee morals, absentee accountability. I was raised by babysitters, strangers, sometimes no one, I knew life should be better than that. My Mother, who I did love dearly, choose to have kids with a guy who was an absentee jerk, not once but five times. I knew I wanted a much better life for my kids if I had them and I picked a good girl who shared the same interests and faith as me. My kids did come home to a real Mom, their Mom, and Dad too.

            • Spot on Tommy. So much time spent by buffons defending the indefensible.
              There is a reason so many “situations” were considered taboo by society. Because they DEGRADED the society. Now, everything goes. Satisfied?

            • Tommy boy,
              Yep, there are instructions and plans that work and those that don’t. You figured it out. I don’t understand why some people reject what works when it comes to being happy and raising happy, well-adjusted children. Maybe its to try to justify the mistakes they’ve made and distance themselves from the problems in their children’s lives. My spouse and I both grew up in broken homes with parents that weren’t interested in being parents. We knew that we didn’t want that for our children and followed the directions that increase the odds of having successful, well-adjusted children. Some people just refuse to see.

            • Tommy Boy: I came down on you for being so harsh about other people’s lives. You have no right to put them down because sometimes life’s outcomes aren’t any one person’s fault. A family can be any assortment of folks living toghether for the benefit of all. It’s not just Ward Cleaver or Father Knows Best going to work while the wife stays home and cleans and cooks for their 2 or 3 perfect kids. Life’s not a tv show no matter how bad you want it. Sorry you had a crummy childhood but it made you who you are today, it drove you to be better than your own folks. My mother died when is was 13 and I and my younger siblings had to learn to do some cooking and washing on our own between housekeepers when my fahter could afford it by working 6 days a week. I’m not angry or sad about what happened, that experience toughened me up. Sometimes shit just happens and you’ve got to deal with it. Ease up on folks, o.k., most are doing the best they can.

        • Posts like this really tick me off. Why? Because there are some very good points buried in all of the BS that I’d like to agree with but CAN’T because of the self-righteous stuff that is in the way.

          It’s very judgmental to state that anyone who is divorced is a screw-up. There are many roads to single parenthood and most of them are not voluntary. I never thought I’d be getting divorced – I was sure I was married for life, but it didn’t turn out that way.

          Should I have then immediately turned in my Mom Card?

          I busted my tail to raise children without the benefit of child support, alimony or an involved co-parent, and my kids are excellent students and people.

          Do I wish I could have stayed home with them? Absolutely? But if my option is staying home and being on welfare or getting a job and being a role model with a work ethic, I’ll be that role model every day of the week.

          Have some compassion and realize we cannot all control every aspect of the route of our lives. Have some gratitude that the life you mapped out worked as you planned it. But don’t judge – it weakens everyone.

          • Daisy: Tommy Boy is a young punk who lives in some little fantasy world and he’s so full of himself that he thinks he has all the answers to all of the world problems. Basically he’s just a self-righteous little prick and know-it-all. I think he thinks we are all part of tv land circa 1959.

          • I have plenty of compassion for the kids.

          • Absantee Father, no child support? You didn’t know he was a loser before you had kids with him? The signs were there but you chose to wear rose colored glasses. I am glad that you stepped up to the plate and are doing the very best that you can raising your children, but perhaps you should have spent more time getting to know the jerk who abandoned you and your kids, before you married him. Get mad if you want, the truth hurts but maybe you could teach your kids a valuable lesson when it comes to picking the partner who they will share their lives with and bring children into the world with.

            • People change, Tommy Boy. He wasn’t like that when I met him, obviously. He turned his back on his faith, his upbringing and his integrity somewhere along the way and I left.

              What I’m trying to say is that you are unrealistic. We can’t always anticipate how a person will deal with the stressors of life – what might cause minor stress for one person causes a nervous breakdown for another person. You can never know how a person will react when faced with tragedies. Some people deal with them and move on, others dwell forever.

              Would I marry him again? Yeah, probably – because I would not choose a life in which I didn’t have these beautiful children for whom I am responsible.

              What life throws at us, we just have to be ready to catch the pass and run with it. Whether it’s in our plan or not. And we should support our fellow human beings that are doing the same thing instead of criticizing them and denigrating them.

              I hope that you never have a reason to recognize how arrogant your conclusions are, but life has a way of teaching you lessons the hard way if you refuse to learn them with an open heart.

            • Daisy,

              If you think pushing for morality and the best possible life for your kids is arrogant then OK. I learned the hard way if you read one of my previous posts. I come from the school of hard knocks and I have a story to tell. I lived the latch key childhood and my Mother would have probably said the same as you, she would have done it all over again, but for me, as the kid growing up that way, I WOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT ALL OVER AGAIN, who listens to kids anyhow. It’s all about the selfish parents and their happiness.

            • Tommy Boy ~

              We play the cards we’re dealt in this life – that’s all I’m trying to say. Maybe you’ve been dealt a better hand in your eyes but trust me when I tell you, the rug could be yanked out from under any one of us at any point in time.

              For the record, I’m sorry that your childhood was so difficult – that in itself is a rotten card. Good for you for using this as impetus to make a better life as an adult.

          • Amen.

        • American women have gotten what their mothers demanded, and many are pissed.

      13. We already homeschool, so no big change.

        • Heretic,
          Shhhh…..homeschoolers will rule the world. 😉

          I’m a former public school teacher.
          I’ve NEVER been a member of a union. (a.k.a. progressive brainwashing machine)
          I resigned when my oldest was born.
          We’ve homeschooled ever since!
          We buy our homeschool curriculum annually but I’ve been actively adding to my educational materials:
          Bible and trustworthy Bible studies
          classic literature
          history books (the accurate ones)
          science (especially about creation)

          The truth is, teaching your children the basic fundamentals and instilling a DESIRE to learn is key!

          • @ RightWingMom (or other homeschoolers for that matter…) For those of us between grown kids and grandkids, would you please recommend some good homeschooling books? A good curriculum as well as the history, science and math books you referenced. There are so many choices out there it would be challenging at this point to sort through them all.

            • Absolutely!
              We use Accelerated Christian Education: School of Tomorrow. Their curriculum is Bible-based and was created to help missionaries educate their children, especially abroad.

              Other curricula I know fellow homeschool parents use include:
              Saxon (math)
              Bob Jones
              Alpha Omega

              You are correct that there are so many choices out there, it can be overwhelming! Check with your local homeschool co-op. They would be more than happy to make suggestions too…as well as be a wealth of information and insight.

              As far as other reference materials, I have been buying nearly every book from Wallbuilders I can afford! David Barton is a national treasure and anything he recommends is worth the investment…IMHO.

              Finally, you can’t go wrong with the classics. As a former English and reading teacher I have quite a collection of children’s books. However, I have made several trips to Half Priced Books to increase my personal library in hardcover books:
              Jules Verne
              Jack London
              Charles Dickens (personal favorite)
              Mark Twain
              H.G. Wells
              Bronte sisters
              Jane Austen
              Louisa May Alcott
              J.R.R. Tolkien
              Daniel Defoe
              Robert Louis Stevenson
              …just to name a FEW!

              Hope this helps!
              RWM 🙂

            • I saw some workbook type things at Sams Club, reasonably priced. Also check the dollar stores. I use them to get ideas and as masters also.

            • A great resource to start with is

              Plenty of great feedback from parents and kids

      14. Post SHTF.
        A teaching certificate will not be needed to teach or to start a school. Socrates did well as do home school parents today. That is, teacher’s colleges will be toast. Good riddance to both.
        How absurd that a physician, or anyone, cannot teach in a high school unless the physician, or one who wishes to teach, also has a teacher’s certificate.
        Pythagoras was also a physician and he would not be allowed to teach without indoctrination and certification from a teacher’s college. Union dues would come later.
        Start your own school.

        • Why does one need a master’s degree to teach 4th grade math?

          • Because, when every idiot has a degree, you need to set some standard.
            in 10 years, they’ll be handing out Doctorates. Then you’ll have to be a Nobel laureate to teach.
            Oops, forgot, Nobel prizes handed out for no reason.

      15. “….boar them to sleep…” Hmmm.

        • “pigmasters”

      16. Before I get slaughtered for the scenarios that would make this idea useless – I would like to suggest what we have done – make an entire backup copy of Wikipedia and out in on a USB drive.

        Yes – I know electronics MAY be useless, but the entire backup of Wikipedia is just under 8GB and it’s FREE.

        Just my 2 cents on another option to save a load of useful and generally accurate information.

      17. The mass “education system’ as it stands, was codified over 100 years ago. It was then, and is now, not just about making good factory drones, but about the long-term indoctrination against freedom in any form. To create division, and destroy the family unit.

        Go ahead and blame the “teacher’s unions”. But, it would seem you still fail to recognize who runs said unions, and who always has. They are the same parasites who have infested every segment of Western Civilization, with the express porpuse of usurpation from within.

        Also, when TSHTF, books will be confiscated, after all, the parasites can’t have serfs who can read any unapproved material. Think “Fahreneit 451” where they send the Firedepartment to burn your books.

        The American “education system” is just one more weapon that people fail to understand, who wields it, and why. Americans are for the most part unable to face thier usurpers and destroyers due to mythology, and do not understand why the parasites who thier mythology protects, are against them.

        ” Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.” -Vladimir Lenin

        • A rather lengthly (738 pages) book you may be interested in is “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America”. The author does collect an impressive amount of data to illustrate a deliberate program, but does not make the connection to who is really behind it. Here is a link to the PDF:

          • Second that – it’s an awesome read!

      18. better if the current system does collapse.
        better for us, better for the planet, better for our children.
        the current education system is primarily designed to meet the needs of the military industrial complex, the military industrial complex have broken the world and the system is failing.
        A new type of education is required, moral, ethical and spiritual whilst drawing on whichever branches of technology provide the safest cleanest ways to provide whatever communities and societies require to function.
        The search for meaning through amassing wealth and posessions was always a fruitless exercise, things really worth having cannot be purchased, the most important lessons in life are not in the school room where we all learned to be good little machine cogs !
        Most of us were tricked, we swapped security for freedom, comfort for adventure, control for independence, we have learned the hard way what it brings! now we have the opportunity to teach our children how to avoid our mistakes, and live a simple WHOLE life, as it had always been before the great experiment known as consumerism……

      19. It’s called unschooling or relaxed homeschooling …keep prepping!!!

      20. Interesting thing will be what is considered important to learn after a collaps . Not much need for a stock broker in that situation .

      21. Who do you blame? Teachers, Parents, Government or Unions.

        • All of the above.

        • Who to blame?? Start by looking in the mirror!!

          • The problem with education is that it is like politics and religion. A hundred different ways and everyone is wrong but you.

            • Things were better before the board of education . Standards and results were higher .

      22. Our biggest problem will be that far too many people have become soft and stupid. Common knowledge of years ago (growing crops, preserving food, natural health remedies) are all but gone now.

        • Here in Iowa we have Living History Farms to remember for us. It’s a truly cool place.

      23. I have a lovely downstairs bedroom that shared a wall with my living room. A simple set of doors created a library space that i fill with books every time I go to Goodwill. A hobby is the old LIFE Time published books from the 60’s. it is interesting to read what we thought of various things then. I try to pair them up with modern versions and think perhaps that is the interesting thing to teach.. how perception is created to sell a point. I do have a remote cache and i have just started a set of tubs there which I put a few ‘how to’ shrinkwrapped books (doubles that I find on the 1/2 off days at Goodwill so less than 1.00)with an oxygen absorbers…if i ever need those by the way we are in real trouble.!!

        I have read about using a kindle… but I haven’t abandoned my physical books idea yet! stop by and visit for more info.

        • I have a collection of older sets of encyclopedias. Over the years, encyclopedias have deleted many articles to make room for new ones. The encyclopedias tried to fit into the same number of volumes over the years. The older encyclopedias have lots of older photos of people and places. You can get old encyclopedias for next to nothing.

          • I could kick myself for getting rid of mine. I will find a set at a yard sale someday.

      24. JASPak,

        Thanks for the great idea – USB drive.

        I’ll backup all of my written jokes to Word. Then do a text to voice conversion. Others I’ll just record.

        Then when I can’t read (bad eyesight) just turn on Y’all Beware! Radio, on my iPhone, for a hoot of a good time.

        Here are a few that are in my ‘HOW TO START A FIGHT´ category:

        One year, I decided to buy my mother-in-law a cemetery plot as a Christmas gift..
        The next year, I didn’t buy her a gift.
        When she asked me why, I replied,
        “Well, you still haven’t used the gift I bought you last year!”
        And that’s how the fight started…..
        My wife and I were watching
        Who Wants To Be A Millionaire while we were in bed.
        I turned to her and said, ‘Do you want to have Sex?’
        ‘No,’ she answered. I then said,
        ‘Is that your final answer?’
        She didn’t even look at me this time, simply saying, ‘Yes..’
        So I said, “Then I’d like to phone a friend.”
        And that’s when the fight started…
        I took my wife to a restaurant.
        The waiter, for some reason, took my order first.
        “I’ll have the rump steak, rare, please.”
        He said, “Aren’t you worried about the mad cow?”
        “Nah, she can order for herself.”
        And that’s when the fight started…..
        My wife and I were sitting at a table at her high school
        reunion, and she kept staring at a drunken man swigging his drink as he sat alone at a nearby table.
        I asked her, “Do you know him?”
        “Yes”, she sighed,
        “He’s my old boyfriend. I understand he took to drinking
        right after we split up those many years ago, and I hear he hasn’t been sober since.”
        “My God!” I said, “Who would think a person could go on
        celebrating that long?”
        And then the fight started…
        When our lawn mower broke and wouldn’t run, my wife kept hinting to me that I should get it fixed. But, somehow I always had something else to take care of first, the shed, the boat, making beer.. Always something more important to me. Finally she thought of a clever way to make her point.

        When I arrived home one day, I found her seated in the tall grass, busily snipping away with a tiny pair of sewing scissors. I watched silently for a short time and then went into the house. I was gone only a minute, and when I came out again I handed her a toothbrush. I said, “When you finish cutting the grass, you might as well sweep the driveway.”

        The doctors say I will walk again, but I will always have a limp.
        My wife sat down next to me as I was flipping channels.
        She asked, “What’s on TV?”
        I said, “Dust.”
        And then the fight started…
        Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my
        lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the van and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day.
        I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed.

        I cuddled up to my wife’s back; now with a different anticipation, and whispered, “The weather out there is terrible.”
        My loving wife of 5 years replied, “And, can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?”
        And that’s how the fight started…
        My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary.
        She said, “I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds.”
        I bought her a bathroom scale.
        And then the fight started……
        After retiring, I went to the Social Security office to apply for Social Security.
        The woman behind the counter asked me for my driver’s License to verify my age. I looked in my pockets and realized I had left my wallet at home. I told the woman that I was very sorry, but I would have to go home and come back later. The woman said, ‘Unbutton your shirt’.
        So I opened my shirt revealing my curly silver hair.
        She said, ‘That silver hair on your chest is proof enough for me’ and she processed my Social Security application.

        When I got home, I excitedly told my wife about my experience at the Social Security office. She said, ‘You should have dropped your pants. You might have gotten disability too.’
        And then the fight started…
        My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror.
        She was not happy with what she saw and said to me,
        “I feel horrible; I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment.’
        I replied, “Your eyesight’s near perfect.”
        And then the fight started……..

        Y’all Beware! And have a laugh or two.

        • HAHAHAAHAHA – I love it!

        • ROFLMAO !!!

      25. “School When There Is No Classroom”

        Might that be the “School of Hard Knocks”, the one I can’t seem to get a degree in but have plenty of bruises to make the honor role?

      26. i have over the years of my childhood, attended a two room schoolhouse, a huge modern city school, and a small town 1920’s style school house…the only problems i ever had with education was in the too big to fail modern institution in the city..thank goodness i had to endure it only for one year. in the old school house we knew we were there for one purpose and that was book learning. we did not need air conditioning or carpet or any of the other ‘comforts to do our learning. kids rode schoolbuses and knew how to behave. there was a dress code and those who did not adhere to it were sent home. girls who got pregnant were tutored at home. and most kids packed their lunches from home too. current government run public schools do nothing these days but suck the money from taxpayers for creature comforts and not for real education.

      27. Much of our teaching including reading and writing will come from the Bible. The wisdom in Proverbs is as pertinent today as it was when it was written.

        I also found some inexpensive home schooling curriculum to download and print (link follows) and am looking for an inexpensive set of recent encyclopedias which contain a lot of instruction.

      28. Former public, private, and community college teacher here. Now I homeschool our three children and love every moment of it.

        Can’t add much to what’s already been said. One thing I do to beef up our home library is buy paperbacks on sale for .25 at the local library sales, yard sales, book swaps, etc. I have a great deal of quality literature (and a little bit of trashy books for mom too) here at our home for a minimal upfront investment.

        Believe it or not, no matter what the “experts” tell you – kids do not need an ipad, computer, mp3 player, or any fancy technology to learn real stuff. Those gadgets are great and serve a purpose, but you can have a highly educated child with nothing more than a library card and will to teach and learn alongside your children. I guarantee you my kids know more about science than the average public or private school kid just by raising chickens and helping in the garden. Fact.

      29. School will be open full time:

        The School of Hard Knocks.

      30. I have several encyclopedia sets, age specific, a working knowledge of algebra, a skimming of phiosphy, a touch of english, and feel I taught myself more than the indoctrination centers did over that 12 year period. I spend a good portion of time correcting the misconceptions that my boys get taght in school, and rewriting over the fallacies they preach from the lecturn. Any math higher than Algebra in my opinion except for engeneering, is taken just for bragging rights. Almost any adult can from their higher knowledge base learn faster than the child they are teaching, and maybe even better their own skills. Not all education should be book based, reading about a trapline will provide a primer, but actually doing it will set the knowledge, asx well as putting meat, and pelts on the table, some things must be done to be learned(physical activities, certain skills, hunting, fishing gardening) and all of these should be a portion of the next genserations education.

      31. As stated,Home school. I went in to Home school in 7th grade. And I’m the only one among my many school friends who are awakened to the truth today. The school’s lie to the kids and teach them the status Que. Glad I was taken out of that

        • “The school’s lie to..”
          An apostrophe is not used to indicate plural; an apostrophe indicates possessive.
          “The school’s lie is that unions are for the children.”

          “Status Que.”
          Queue is a line, as in “queue up for you FEMA food”
          “Queue” is sometimes shortened to “que”.
          Cue is a prompt, as in “Cue the politician to begin lying”
          ‘que is California slang for bar-be-que.
          Did the schools teach the children about the status of hosting a cook-out?

          Perhaps homesskool wasn’t so wonderful after all.

          • Hey Anon…

            You can tell that Joe is very young based on his post. You know that, but I digress. I am guessing that you are an adult who has learned all of these things on your own, outside of the public indoctrination centers? I know darn well that you did not learn the difference between queue, cue, quo, etc, in public schools. You are a liar to say that you did. You became educated in language, as an adult, when it became necessary, and important for you to do so. Home schoolers are not perfect, but bottom line is that they are free of the liberal, communist/socialist/marxist programming that you probably hold very dear to your black heart. Thank God for parents who think outside the box and homeschool their children! Otherwise, they would all end up just like you.

      32. when a collapse event happens it will be the dark ages again…

      33. I homeschooled as a single parent. It was tough at the time but it was worth it. Homeschooling is actually less time consuming than a day at school. We could cover the same material in about one fourth the time, usually in a more entertaining way, so it was remembered easier.

        I think one thing parents can do is to show their children that they are interested in learning too. One amazing new development is the number of college courses available free on line. Coursera has several classes each month and MIT has class information available online, among other resources. If we can avoid an EMP we might see education become decentralized.

        • If you’ve never heard of it, the Kahn Academy, is a great place to learn things online. They have a really good economics section, and a wide selection on Math, though I haven’t viewed those. If society’s technology sticks around, maybe one day there’ll be 4-5 really good teachers on a given subject, who teach via internet, rather than glorified babysitting/indoctrination camps.

          • That’s my plan. Now how do we get the unions to go along??
            This will have to happen organically with parents withdrawing from the system.
            The stellar results will prove the method. Slowly, we will evolve.

      34. Have you concidered william McGuffey’s Eclectic Reader Series? They are a series of graded primers that were widely used as textbooks in American schools from 1836-1960, and are still used today in some private schools and in homeschooling.

      35. REALLY ARE YOU KIDDING DO you think we are going back to the Dark Ages !!!! Storm the castle!!Not even the Dark Ages were dark It does not take into account the rest of the planet or are you also so brainwashed that you think Europe was the center of the world. How about the North and South Americas! Sorry Dark age – just not going to happen! Get used to this screwed up system.

      36. I’ll teach Stationary Engineering. I cut my eye teeth in a 1930s / 1940s vintage power plant that generated electricity. If society advanced sufficiently in the post collapse in my lifetime I’ll teach a curriculum up through a gas turbine and DCS control.

        Does the majority think that that we will drop 100 + years in technology? I do not.

        • “Does the majority think that that we will drop 100 + years in technology?”

          Yes, I absolutely do, but I don’t think we’ll be set 100+ years back. Lets say you were stripped to a rawhide loinskin, and dropped in the woods. You’d be thrown back thousands of years in technology, but you may have fire overnight. You may, in fact get sustainable shelter, and some leather clothes in a few weeks. Etc. etc. That’s thousands of years in advancement, in a matter of days, because of knowledge. Still, you have no tools. You have to make tools, to make tools, to make parts of bigger tools, to make tools, to make instruments/devices.

          We have spent the last 100 years doing just that. Now, as a people, we know how, but given the right circumstances, we lose all those advancements, but that doesn’t mean it takes as long to recoup. Raw materials still have to be processed, and still have to be machined to be turned into the components needed to build whatever the “it” is. So yes, I think we’ll be thrown back to an far back period, but nor for as long a period. Infrastructure is vital in this, and I think that’s why China has been ramping up theirs, while ours is crumbing.

          • 21 Facts About America’s Decaying Infrastructure That Will Blow Your Mind

            “You can tell a lot about a nation by the condition of the infrastructure. So what does our infrastructure say about us? It says that we are in a very advanced state of decay.”

            “At this point, much of America is being held together with spit, duct tape and prayers. Our roads are crumbling and thousands of our bridges look like they could collapse at any moment.”

            “Our power grid is ancient and over a trillion gallons of untreated sewage is leaking from our aging sewer systems each year.”


            • But we have the most advanced military in the history of the world. Priorities.

              We’ll know we are on the right track when Newport News Shipbuilding makes something besides an aircraft carrier.
              We have to compete and build things besides weapons.
              The state of waste teatment in this country is pathetic.
              But we spend $800,000.00 on an MRAP, by the hundreds. We are truly being fleeced.

          • DB
            Everybody will have electrical power no matter how bad the crash. There will be millions of car alternators around. It will be interesting to see all the ingenious ways people will come up with making them work.

        • Kevin2
          I know a little about gas turbine engines.
          Lp/Hp compressors Lp/Hp turbines. Have any hands on.

          • My main hands on experience was with 900 PSI, 850 Deg F boilers and steam turbines throttling at 900/400/190 and even 35 PSI. Some powered accessory equipment and some generators. Operated compressors up to 20k HP. Got to say I loved every minute of it during daylight.

            The GTG (Gas Turbine Generator) I operated for over a decade being a “Plank Owner” with it and a modern 1991 power plant.

            • Turbofans, Turbojets, Turboprops. Aircraft turn qualified. G.E,. Pratt, Allison. Nut and bolt to test cell. Twelve thousand pounds of thrust at military. Thirty years. Think I can Teach? Or do I need a masters degree.

            • Slingshot

              You forgot more useful knowledge than the Master Degree ever learned.

              I taught at night for several years and was very impressed with a couple of newly retired US Navy Master Chiefs E-8 that were transferring their skills into civilian power plants.

      37. After the oscillating device has finished displacing the fecal matter, curriculum will have to adjust vastly. I think we can rest asured the constitution will move back on to the list and with luck we will omit how all the polar bears are going to die because of a styrofoam cup. With luck we may have a generation of people once again that are familiar with the simple yet exquisite operation of a pencil and paper.

      38. Weapons training, foraging, archery, gardening, power generation, these are skills, comparative dance, dead languages, poly sci, and most liberal arts are ego stroking degrees just for the wall mounted display skin. My wife and I agreed that until the youngest child started school, one of us would be home with them, no daycare, no nannys, no problems. We made the desicsion because daycare, taxes, gas and insurance for a second vehicle would have cost more than she could make, and then what’s the point. I taught my children how to cook, fish track shoot, and other skills that they needed, but weren’t on the curriculum .

      39. Someone upthread mentioned the Gutenberg project. Lot’s of e-books there. there are many books, audio, film, etc. at the internet Archive digital library, also. this is the link to the texts area.

      40. If it comes to this true apocalyptic SHTF scenario, I am confident that my kids and the neighborhood kids will be fine. Once the dust settles (assuming this happens while I’m still alive and kicking), I would set up an education program for all the kids in a way that works so well: application based learning. We won’t just learn math and science from books, we will do it. Our assessments will come when we harvest the crops that grew from successful photosynthesis and proper fertilizing and water. Or when we can sterilize water from concentrated UV light, or study thermodynamics by building a solar oven. Oh…I’ve got more. Lots more. how about some wind energy or making cheese? Maybe some enzyme studies…

        There will be no more IEPs or 504 plans or complaining parents. If you don’t want your kid to learn with me, then fine…you go try and teach them these extremely advanced topics that you never took the time to learn or understand. How much would people then be willing to PAY for such an education? How about that handgun or a part of the crop? Truly, knowledge is power, especially if you know how to transfer the knowledge in a usable format.

        At a minimum, my children will have the educational background needed to facilitate science and technology with a firm appreciation for the environment and their Maker.

        But, in the interim, I will go to the classroom everyday and educate those kids to the best of my ability, then come home and work with my little angels. 🙂

      41. @ Kynase
        Been more than forty years and I can still remember the two men respondsible for my well being.
        Mr.Cherry and Mr.Thorton. They put tools in my hands and the rest is History.

      42. my wife and i have been prepping with this very topic in mind… we have both been teachers and homeschoolers… i have experience in starting 2 private Christian schools from the ground up… we are gathering materials for use in either homeschooling or group/co-op schooling with emphasis on the “3 R’s” as well as our religious history, our Founding Documents and those responsible for giving them to us… we will also insist on firearms familiarization/skills… we have some basic “plans” which include mandatory parental involvement if a group/co-op setting is chosen… we will never become daytime babysitters for anyone else’s responsibilities and since there will not be any daytime soaps or american idiot to waste time going comatose in front of, participation shouldn’t be an issue… don’t like our approach..??? fine, we’ll have the freedom to refuse to tend your imp(s) and you’ll have the freedom to go find a pasty to do your job… a win-win in my view…

        • one of the big pluses of home- or co-op schooling is the “hands on” aspect… kids should be able to see the application of what they are to learn…

      43. 1) We must start lotterys for selected officials, there there will be no lobbying, and there will be no big money in politics, Selection day, lets give GOD a chance to select our leaders.
        2) Only 100 employees per company. The goal is to build and cooperate, not to monopolize. A few people with billions make no sense, the goal is GOD enlightenment, not big money, even government.
        3) One company per person. Especially media outlets.

      44. got this in an e-mail. Just for fun

        8th Grade Final Exam: Salina , KS – 1895

        Grammar (Time, one hour)
        1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
        2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
        3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
        4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of ‘lie,”play,’ and ‘run.’
        5. Define case; illustrate each case.
        6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
        7 – 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

        Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)
        1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
        2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
        3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. For tare?
        4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000.. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
        5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton.
        6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
        7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft.. Long at $20 per metre?
        8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
        9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
        10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt

        U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
        1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
        2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus
        3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
        4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
        5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas
        6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
        7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell , Lincoln , Penn, and Howe?
        8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.

        Orthography (Time, one hour)
        [Do we even know what this is??]
        1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication
        2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
        3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals
        4. Give four substitutes for caret ‘u.’ (HUH?)
        5. Give two rules for spelling words with final ‘e.’ Name two exceptions under each rule.
        6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
        7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis-mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
        8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
        9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
        10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks
        and by syllabication.

        Geography (Time, one hour)
        1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
        2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?
        3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
        4. Describe the mountains of North America
        5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa , Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco
        6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each..
        8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
        9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
        10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.

        Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.

        Gives the saying ‘he only had an 8th grade education’ a whole new meaning, doesn’t it?!

        No wonder they dropped out after 8th grade. They already knew more than they needed to know!

        No, I don’t have the answers! And I don’t think I

        ever did!

      45. The Ultimate Battle For Our Children Is In Our Schools with Karen Schroeder – Episode 121

        “There are over 3 million teachers in America today, and over 1.2 million of them are conservative, limited government educators who are striving to work from within a system that is hostile not only to the ideals enshrined in the founding documents of our country, but hostile to our republic itself.

        They are trying to stem the tide of progressivism that is threatening to engulf our students, that is teaching them a history and world-view that denigrates and blasphemes who and what we are as Americans, and the ideals and belief system that we’ve carried with us through the last two and a half centuries.”

        • They are fighting a losing battle. There is no hope in the public school/indoctrination centers. If you as a parent choose to participate, then don’t be surprised that your child lacks education and spits on your beliefs. Wake up parents! Quit using schools as daycare and take the responsibility to raise and educate your own! They were never meant to be outsourced to others and now you and society is paying the price for letting strangers raise your children. Wake UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Those 1.2 million conservative teachers would do much more by pulling out and homeschooling their own children than by beating the dead horse that is the public school system. That would send a message. If all of the good, caring parents pulled out, there would be nothing left and nothing to do but build from the ground up with our voices. Stop believing the lie that it takes a village to raise a child. It takes loving, caring, and supportive parents!!!

      46. Going to give everyone I know a copy of the Marine Corps handbook, thats all the need to know.

      47. Both my wife and I attended government schools. We homeschooled our daughter, we never wanted her to suffer as we did. My wife spent less than 4 hrs a day – and our daughter managed to get a 1220 SAT, and attened the college of her choice.

        It’s easy to prove government schools are a failure. You just have to consider how much money it costs per pupil – and compare it to the SAT scores – which haven’t changed in years (or in some cases gone down). Here in Minneapolis they spend $21,000 per pupil, and only half of the graduate.

      48. Doug_B: excellent point and congrats to you and the misses. I remember watching Johnny Carson a number of years ago and he had a 18 y/o fellow named Greg who was home schooled by both parents in a remote house in northen California. Both parents had been teachers which may have helped, but he read a lot and was always questioned by his parents. It worked because he scored a very high SAT and was #2 in admitting to the freshman class of Harvard that year. So it can be done. Again, congratulations.

      49. Schools are more like prisons now, although prisons get more funding and rights in my opinion.

        Funding for sports and the arts have gone downhill. They sit all day without much exercise in fluorescent lighting learning about absolutely ridiculous curriculum that teaches them nothing to do with real life. What about teaching the children how to grow food within their communities? Things that bring meaning to our world.

        • Mumble t peg on the school grounds – immediate Lock Down! Point your finger, middle or otherwise – Lock Down!

          Shovel ready gardening class – Lock Down, shovels are weapons.

          Kid defends himself – Lockdown, inmates don’t have rights.

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