Consequences of Collapse: Access to Critical Medicines Is Disappearing in Greece

by | Jan 11, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 232 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When a nation goes into economic crisis the paradigm to which its people have become accustomed begins to deteriorate. Access to critical supplies becomes difficult, sometimes immediately. In the case of Greece, which has been dealing with a loss of confidence in its debt instruments and economic policy, the collapse of life as Greeks know it has taken place over the last several years.

    While we have been fortunate enough to avoid as severe a calamity here in the United States, many of the forecasts put forth by ourselves and others regarding the effects of an economic collapse are already taking place in Europe, namely Greece. In the midst of the Greek panic in 2010, for example, as Greece’s meltdown was in full swing and the people scrambled to get out of paper currencies, the price of gold, which was trading for around $1100 an ounce in the global commodity exchange marketplace, soared to over $1700 an ounce on the streets of Greece. In recent months, as Greece implements austerity measures and the unemployment rate sky rockets, its people have lost the ability to engage in traditional commerce because, simply put, they have no tangible income or money to do so. As a result, we’ve begun seeing a barter society emerge  all over the country, making it possible for some people to directly exchange labor for consumptive goods and service.

    When things get bad – and they will – the most essential items necessary for survival will disappear first. As currencies collapse, financial market destabilize and economies come to a standstill, critical supplies like food and medicine will become difficult to acquire at any price. This is exactly what is now taking place in Greece, where access to life-saving drugs and even common over-the-counter medicines like aspirin is becoming a tragedy where the losses will be measured not in Dollars or Euros, but lives.

    For patients and pharmacists in financially stricken Greece, even finding aspirin has turned into a headache.

    Mina Mavrou, who runs a pharmacy in a middle-class Athens suburb, spends hours each day pleading with drugmakers, wholesalers and colleagues to hunt down medicines for clients. Life-saving drugs such as Sanofi (SAN)’s blood-thinner Clexane and GlaxoSmithKline Plc (GSK)’s asthma inhaler Flixotide often appear as lines of crimson data on pharmacists’ computer screens, meaning the products aren’t in stock or that pharmacists can’t order as many units as they need.

    “When we see red, we want to cry,” Mavrou said. “The situation is worsening day by day.

    The 12,000 pharmacies that dot almost every street corner in Greek cities are the damaged capillaries of a complex system for getting treatment to patients. The Panhellenic Association of Pharmacists reports shortages of almost half the country’s 500 most-used medicines.

    “It would be unrealistic to deny that there are many difficulties regarding all public services due to the financial crisis,” Nicolaos Polyzos, secretary general of the Ministry of Health, wrote in a response to McKee’s article posted on the ministry’s website.

    The reasons for the shortages are complex. One major cause is the Greek government, which sets prices for medicines. As part of an effort to cut its own costs, Greece has mandated lower drug prices in the past year. That has fed a secondary market, drug manufacturers contend, as wholesalers sell their shipments outside the country at higher prices than they can get within Greece.

    Strained government finances only make matters worse. Wholesalers and pharmacists say the system suffers from a lack of liquidity, as public insurers delay payments to pharmacies, which in turn can’t pay suppliers on time.

    Source: Bloomberg

    This is what happens when a country’s economy falls apart.  In a report from 2010, economist John Williams warned that a hyperinflationary environment in the US would not only cause food disruptions, but also disrupt the regular flow of commerce. And, while Greece may not specifically be experiencing a hyperinflationary environment (yet), an economic collapse resulting from a debt crisis has similar consequences as evidenced above.

    But such a thing couldn’t happen in the United States, right? As we approach yet another debt ceiling this month, requiring some $1 trillion dollars just to keep the system from seizing up like an engine that has run out of oil, our elected officials and leading economic decision makers will ensure we avoid such an outcome.

    Or will they?

    How willing are you to trust the health of your family to the very individuals and corporations who are responsible for causing the crisis in the first place?

    Like Greece, we will see a continued deterioration of basic services here at home. We may be able to print trillions upon trillions of dollars, but eventually those dollars will become worthless and no one will accept them as a trusted currency. This means that all of the food we import from other countries, the drugs we buy from pharmaceutical companies, and the oil we buy from the middle east, will become difficult, if not impossible, to acquire.

    Now is the time to get prepared. Food, of course, is one of the first essential preparedness items to stockpile. But how many have given thought to life saving medications? If you have someone with a medical condition in your family, how will you gain access to that medicine when it’s no longer available at your local pharmacy. We recommend taking steps immediately to secure at least a 3 – 6 month supply of the drugs you or your family members need to survive (and to consider proper off-grid storage methods for those requiring refrigeration). Additionally, we strongly encourage you to consider adding Antibiotics for SHTF Planning to your stockpiles, because if things get so bad that you are unable to find medicines like penicillin or cipro at a local pharmacy, you can be assured that no one on the street will be willing to sell them – at any price.

    Related: Antibiotics for SHTF Planning by Tess Pennington of Ready Nutrition  for a list medicines to acquire and where to get them.

    Related: A Doctor’s Thoughts on Antibiotics, Expiration Dates, and TEOTWAWKI published at James Rawles’ Survival Blog

    Hat tip SmokyMtnLady


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      1. This is exactly why you have 2 medical kits even if you’re in good health now. One kit with all the essential bandages and so forth, the second kit with common over the counter drugs, mixed with herbal remedies. It also doesn’t hurt to have as many books around on natural cures as you possibly can. Field medicine manuals are a good idea too.

        • Need a doctor but don’t have one? Need antibiotic supplies? Consider this doctor who works with patients via the internet. Courtesy of Survivalblog. Here is a link to the doc’s website:

          sample articles by the doctor:

          Kudos to SmokyMtnLady and Mac for this excellent article.

          • Thanks Silver Bean, we are very happy with the antibiotics we received! I suggest everyone get some meds…before Homeland security finds a way to shut him down! Can’t have him helping the people, now can we??

            Zinc is a very effective alternative to antibiotics. That said, my father-in-law is an old retired pharmacist who swears by it. Use zinc on the rare occasion that you feel a “catch” or sore spot in the back of your throat. If you suspect that you may be coming down with a cold, strep throat, tonsillitis, etc., immediately take an OTC 30 – 50 mg zinc tablet and suck on it. (Disclaimer: It tastes NASTY!) It will take approximately 3 – 5 minutes to dissolve completely. Do not drink for several minutes. The zinc will kill the infection in your throat. If caught early enough, you rarely need to take a second dose. If you do need to take a second dose, wait 12 – 24 hours. Two doses should be enough. (Zinc poisoning can occur if you exceed 150 mg. within 24 hours for an average adult. I stay within 100 mg., just to be safe.) Make sure you have eaten something before taking zinc. It can cause stomach irritation.

            I have followed this regimen for over twenty years. It really works and is much better than visiting a doctor and taking of a round of antibiotics! Who knows, antibiotics may be scarce someday. Zinc lozenges are good for children, but they contain a much lower dose. (12.5 mg. per lozenge) I find them much less effective on adults.

            • I agree RWM. Have been doing the same for years. First indication of a potential cold, which for me always hits my throat, WHAM, zinc. Usually gone the next day. You are also VERY correct, tastes like sh..!

        • remember the Celox

        • This is already happening here in the Los Angeles area in slow motion. Some years ago I began commenting regarding the condition of the streets here. “Los Angeles is becoming more and more like a third world city.” The potholes and otherwise degraded street surfaces have been declining ever since. The hospital emergency room services have been closing throughout the Greater Los Angeles area. Both of these events are directly linked to debt and funding problems. hypnohotshot.

      2. I agree joe, plus taking a few first aid classes are very helpful. It’s also nice if you have a doctor, nurse, combat medic or EMT in your group.

      3. My 24 year old son has type 1, insulin dependent diabetes. His pancreas does not produce any insulin (unlike type 2). He stocks 3-6 months supply but it is hard to get much more from doctor/pharmacy.

        This is my greatest fear with this coming collapse! What happens after six months?? Black market drugs that are questionable? I’ve got lots of barter items prepared for this…but it will get difficult! I’ve even researched making your own insulin from pig pancreas – a mother will do anything!

        Prepare – food, water, ammo, are essential, but first aid, meds, soap, etc. are also critical to survival. Learn prevention of disease, herbal remedies, take a advanced first aid course.

        This is coming and the government won’t be there to bail anyone out. No guarantee in a FEMA camp either!!!

          • Bought one about a year ago shortly after our 7 yo was diagnosed. works pretty sweet, but running on propane takes a little trial and error to get the temps where you want it to keep insulin without freezing it.

          • Yep, this works great until your power runs out, or you are out of LP…keeps your beer cold too, and plenty of room for both! I have solar panels and a nice rack of batteries to keep it cold.

            …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills …
            S O S

            Apparently no ham radio operators out there anymore, eh? Those damned hidden messages, hehhee 🙂



            • M’room: I just got back from the bank. I had several hundred dollar bills changed and got a nice stack of $10 bills. I also have a large stack of $20 bills from getting cash back at the stores.

          • A very good option for refrigeration/freezer for meds. and food, is to get a hold of an old intermittent absorption refrigerator.
            They can be fired of of kerosene or wood.
            Continuous absorption refrigerators/freezer don’t have to be manually fired off once a day making them more convenient,as they are powered off natural gas, LP gas, or electric on some models.
            But they cost more and have more failure points.
            A simple intermittent absorption frig/freezer is a very reliable off grid devise.

            • I used to make those and sell them to UNICEF.
              I never heard of any of them stopping to work and some have been there for 30 years. You can burn wood or oil or whatever you got to boil off the ammonia.

            • you have mail.

            • Yeah joe intermittent absorption systems are very simple and very very reliable, the maytag repairman hates them 🙂
              I used to work at a shop that had a continuous absorption fridge/freezer powered of NG, that had been running continuously for over 30 years, only time it was turned off was for defrosting it, since it was a manual defrost model.

              Sometimes lotech trumps hitech.

            • Ok you can get a hold of me here.


        • @PrepperGal35 Insulin can be harvested from pigs, which is what most pharma companies do. There are also several flowers that can be used as a substitute as well. I’ll see if I can dig up my links on it and post them here. One of my oldest buddies came home from Iraq and 6 months later was diagnosed with Type 1 at the age of 40. He suspects either vaccinations for Anthrax or a rat poison they used around the equipment he worked on.

          • My brother’s type 1, yes Type 1 was activated by Mono at age 20

          • Hi Joe. Actually, most pharma companies do not harvest insulin from pigs any more. Insulins for the last 25 years have been “recombinant,” meaning that they trick bacteria into making Human insulin. It was really hard before to judge dosages, because each animal was different.

            • Looks like I’m a little out of the loop on that one. Thanks for the correction.

        • Same here… son is 20, type 1 insulin dependent. For now, he is on the pump and I have lots of novolog. For backup, I have syringes and Lantus that would have to be injected 2x a day. All Together I have about 8 months worth of supplies. I’d like to chat at some point if possible!

        • @preppergal
          look into the use of cinnamon to enhance the effects of the insulin. Also, Juruselem Artichokes are a flower that grows wild at least where i live. The roots have something called “inulin” (i think that is how its spelled) which acts like insulin, however i don’t believe it is as powerful. I beleive the roots have to be eaten raw but i don’t remember for sure right of the top. Hope this helps

        • Unfortunately, One Second After will tell the most likely fate of such patients like no other books.

          • The book (One Second After) reflects most people’s knowledge about diabetes. However, before insulin was available, diabetes was treated by a very low calorie, low carb diet. (About 8% carbs) It did not cure the diabetes but it prolonged life by several years in many cases. If more diabetics were aware of this, they could handle a sudden disruption of insulin supplies. It is a very difficult diet to follow but if it helped someone last until insulin was available again, it could be life saving.

          • Even without an EMP if things did break down, that book shows some realistic die off of so many people, elderly and young as well as sick people would be out of luck. It took a long time for us to get here and then with good food and clean water we because not only the dominate race on the planet but also 7 billion and growing strong. But drop the electricity and population takes a dive really fast. Jus t look at New Orleans and what happen there with the hospital and nursing home.

            Strange they talked very little about it except to condemn a few doctors that stayed and prosecute them. If SHTF I feel sorry for people who thing the rich and government are coming to their rescue.

        • PrepperGal35,
          Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy have an article dealing with insulin shortages during WWII.

          It was posted on Oct. 18, 2011.
          Hope this helps!

        • You’ll have to buy it from Canada at full price if you want to stock up. That’s what my brother does. He has over a 2 year supply and rotates his regular prescription through it. The initial supply was about $1000 so….whats life during SHTF worth?

        • PrepperGal: There are several plants that mimic the insulin effect…I would definitely start googling that to see what I could order to help take the place of western med insulin. My daughters are hypothyroid and I have found some herbal preps that will take the place of their western med thyroid medicine if needed. I would also look up things like banaba leaf and see if that is anything that may help your son. Best of hope for you both.

        • I have seen no answer to this problem of having access to insulin and needles and test strips needed for my husband to live. Nearly all pharmacies and doctors will allow you only three months supply maximum and insulin must be kept cool. Also my husband currently must have at least two catheter changes per month, a supply of cath bags and tubing and his blood pressure meds which they will only allow a three month max. supply. I also need blood pressure meds and water pills and have been unable to obtain more than a three month supply (I had to fight hard from our insurance company and our doctors to get this much at a time!) What can be done in our situation? People really need answers. I’d like to be able to obtain at least one year’s supply of our meds and two years if possible. Without our meds we would probably die much quicker from lack of our meds than from lack of food! What can we do if doctors and pharmacies will not supply beyond three months?? There are so many disabled and elderly folks in our situation. Have so many of our fellow citizens become so cold they would just stand by and allow millions of us to die very painful deaths from lack of daily needed medicines? Why are these not being stockpiled as insulin can keep over two years if properly stored????

      4. I guess Michael Moore forgot to mention this part about socialized medicine in a socialist system in his movie, “Sicko”.

      5. Anyone who doesn’y have basic medical supplies at this point is plain crazy.

        • Some people live in countries where even basic medicines are heavily regulated, unavailable or they simply cannot afford to buy medicines that will sit on the shelf until SHTF. People should try to prep medical if they can.

      6. Good article Mac.

        Things are much worse in reality.
        You have to experience it in order to understand.
        -Drug-stores don’t support social services anymore. Even if one is secured, he/she has to pay for the medicines. Later you take the prescription to your social service organization to get some 20% refund (if not when).
        -For medical problems you have to book an appointment to the hospital. Most likely you will get one 6 to 8 months later.
        -Greeks pay 5 euros for every time they need something from a hospital. Illegals pay nothing.
        -Doctors and nurses are low-waged, so they don’t give a shit about you and your problems.
        -There are not enough nurses for night watch, so families hire outside privateers. They cost more than 25 euros per hour. So a poor family in need of a two week treatment has no means of hiring an external nurse. My father had an operation two years ago, and the whole family did its turns staying with the patient.
        -Expensive medicines are not covered by the social services. So tough cases, most likely end-up to some cemetery.
        -Public hospitals are now being given to private insurance companies. They are going to create fancy/luxurius treatment centers for the rich. In any case who cares about the poor? The most ridiculous thing in this case, is that public hospitals were built from the social fee of the employees.
        -Ambulance and emergency vehicles are hard to find, many of them are broken in need of spare parts, and expensive fuel makes them hard to move immediately.

        There are more. I’m really sick and tired.

        And i’ll tell you once more. I don’t like the idea that U.S. citizen’s money are being given to save some banania half the planet away. We did our mistakes or actions. There is no need for you to pay with us.

        Stay alert.

        • manos,

          Hope you are holding up well sir. I think what nina was trying to say was. How can we at the shtf family help you and YOUR family out?? We all know that giving money to the red cross or any others would never reach you. However there are other ways to Help 🙂


          • DPS,

            I really appreciate that from you guys.
            Red cross money are in vain. There are so many people all around the world to assist, and so many pockets to fill.
            The way our greek tragedy is developing, there is no way someone can help. We can only help ourselves by throwing out all Greek polititians, the German “saviors”, and the IMF banksters.
            But from what i understand the game is bigger than us.
            They are trying to turn the country to some German or Chinese protectorate. They will enslave people, build industries with cheap workfore, and of course exploit the country’s gas and oil.
            Yes, unfortunatelly for us, there is oil in the Aegean sea, in the Greek part south of Crete and east of Corfu.
            I’m saying unfortunately, because we all know how small countries end up with their natural resources: Nigeria, Ivory coast, Sierra Leone, Guatemala, Congo, etc.
            Help yourselves my friend before it’s too late.
            Spread to the U.S, people, what you already know. You are good people and don’t deserve some similar fate.

            Thanks again

            • manos,

              I notice a differant tone to your typing today.. You know bud if you ever need to vent do it HERE. You are family so vent away if you feel the need.


            • Thanks man,

              I don’t want to sound like the poor devil.
              But everything we knew are collapsing, and this gives you the creeps.
              I’m angry, sad, depressed, scared, sensitive, tough.
              But i really admire this guy from Bosnia whose interview was published in previous months here.
              He is a real hero. He deserves to live and i really wish i meet him and salute him like a real soldier.

            • manos,
              I know it would be hard to meet him face to face,so why not e-mail him. Its worth a try bud. I just hate that there is not much we can do for you. Drop me a e-mail sometime. [email protected]


            • Manos~

              I’m really sorry that things are going so badly there.

              How is the mail system where you are? Is it safe? If any of us got together a care package would you actually receive it? I’d love to just send some magazines and books for your children, and some staples for you and Mrs. Manos.

            • Manos, Selco now has his own site if you haven’t seen it, at He would probably appreciate hearing from you, that his words have truly made a difference. I appreciate hearing from you, and pray for you and your family and your neighbors.

            • Your a cool dude. I wish we could help some way too. Isn’t there any mail or package delivery? Maybe as soon as they see it’s from the US it’s gone. I know there a lot of prayers coming your way. Really wish it was more. We all enjoy your comments. Blessings.

            • Thanks MB, didn’t know that. Went on there today. Good info and reading.

              And to you trolls who thumbed down MB’s comment, get a fu…. life.

          • DPS you are a swell dude at heart.

            • shhhh don’t tell anybody that..thanks bud

            • I agree…anyone that defends a lady, is a hero as far as I’m concerned! 😀

        • “Greeks pay 5 euros for every time they need something
          from a hospital. Illegals pay nothing”

          Sounds just like the USA. Working American’s pay $700+ per month for health insurance plus high taxes for everyone else’s healthcare. Illegals and welfare folks pay nothing.

          I wonder why the above outlined things Manos describes are not being reported on AT ALL – other than on internet sites like this. Most of society worldwide is still in workable shape – at least humanitarian donations of medical care could be shipped in.

          Oh, I get it, Greece is not Africa or Haiti. Not part of the groups who are “worthy” of private foreign aid. No celebritards to stand up and cry for them.

          Folks, the abandonment you see happening to Greece will happen here 10 fold. They simply cannot wait to see the giant fall. And by they – I mean not only the rest of the world but also many within our borders as well.

          • Yea its like that here in the states. You or I go to the doctor and don’t have insurance we are turned away but if an illegal shows up they get treated for free basically. !!%$^&! makes very angry, beyond words. Why do we pay any taxes at all if this is case??

            • The only place illegal get healthcare is at the emergency room. Want what they are getting then go to the emergency room and sit and wait your turn.

              EMT-P so I know what I am talking about, oh and been in the medical field does not guarantee I have insurance. Actually I have in the past 20 years had times with no insurance even as I worked to save others. Welcome to reality. Not in the field anymore was not worth the trouble or headaches, but I do miss it but not the low pay.

              No not everyone can work for the Fire Department. Nice divorce rate also in the field.

        • Manos,describes it as it is!!!!everything is true ….

          • greekcitizen,

            do you live here or abroad?

        • Manos what your experiencing is socialized medicine and that’s why IT SUCKS! OBAMACARE will turn into what Manos has to deal with. That is a HUGE storm on the horizon. Hopefully whoever the next president is will kill this before it is fully implemented.

          • That’s cute how you still think there’s hope :/

          • I believe the United States has the worst health care system in the developed world. I lived there for several years and experienced it first hand. As far as I’m concerned, American Doctors and Dentist are nothing but greedy, money gouging, baboons!!! I injured myself a couple times in the US and ended up getting my shoulder fixed back in my home country because US doctors didnt know what was wrong after many X-rays and cat scans!! But they made a ton of money out of my visits. Same with dental care. US dentist prescribed 3 crowns and bridging at several thousand dollars worth of work to fix up my teeth. Lucky for me, I went home to my home country on vacation before my US dentist got me!! At home, I paid for two fillings to fix 2 of the teeth that we’re meant to need crowns and the third tooth? Evidently it was fine! Nothing wrong with it!!!

            US health care sucks!!

        • I would be willing to contribute to the care package if I had some way to do it.

          I am so glad you take the time to come on here. I always check to see if you have posts.

          Are you able to start a blog or something with a paypal-like type donation button? This may be a dumb question because I know with what is happening to you, maintaining a website is the last thing you think about.

        • Manos, you know what I don’t like? I don’t like getting the shit taxed out of me and then some of that money *NOT* going to help you guys eat and be healthy! At least if they’re going to steal the money from me they could at least makes some good use of it.

          If I’m going to pay it, I’d sure rather it go to Greece and help people with the essentials than having it go into the pockets of Solydra and bankster CEOs and crooked politicians.

          What a bunch of worthless bastards we have running this country (and Greece, apparently!)

          THEY WILL ALL PAY THEIR DUES. I am confident that, regardless of any court, any governments, justice will be done.

          Good luck Manos! Our prayers go out to you! …and hopefully a few dollars too!

        • Manos,
          Blessings to you…I know that even the most prepared among us here at SHTFplan can’t truly understand what you are going through.
          Know that many of us are thinking of you and keeping you and your family in our prayers.
          I also would like to contribute, if there is ever a way to set up some way to send supplies to you, your family, and your friends. I know we probably couldn’t do a whole lot to help, but if there is ever anything that you need, please let us know.
          Your posts are so honest, intelligent, and timely. I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that I appreciate the time and effort it takes for you to write from the front-lines of this horrible collapse and teach us the important lessons that you are learning about how life in Greek society functions now.
          God bless you and your family, Manos…please, keep posting…we are here for you.

      7. good call. today’s a good day to update my med preps.

        • citizen ron..I’m looking for coreg..or generic carvedilol.

          Any links you’ve used I can trust?

          Thanks..the old man here will be a goner when TSHTF without it…no, he doesn’t have congested heart failure..but this is what his last dr. of 20 years has him on.

          Thanks for any help.

          I also can’t function without Donnatal, generic belladonna, and can’t find it. Been on this for over 25 years and if I don’t start stocking up–I’m screwed.

        • So extremely sad. Parents are having to abandon their children in hopes that someone else can care for them. Why is this not in the news? Disgraceful.

          • My husband and I were discussing this last night. We were trying to imagine being in a place in our lives where we felt that abandoning our children would be better for them than keeping our family together. It very nearly brought me to tears. My heart hurts for the people who find themselves in such a terrible position…

      8. It really will be the end of the world if I can’t get my viagra or some Cialis. Any suggestions other that forced abstinence???

        • @Froggy
          Look on the bright side at least you won’t be dead because you can’t get a life saving drug….

        • froggy take the old ladies teeth out

        • hey froggy, take the old ladies teeth out

        • When the “Little Admiral” won’t salute any longer. It is natures way of telling you to find something else to do with the 3 minutes of extra time that you now have.

          • Funny!

        • Some herbals like Yohimbe, Tribulis, and “Horny Goat Weed” are just as effective and safer…

        • Purple M&M’s. My girl like hiding them.

        • @froggy just stock up on L-Arginine, L-glutamine, L-carnitine… vit e, potasium, an some red pepper extract… trust me… works, gets ya all worked up… use as directed and all natural, take with non-acidic food… it’ll boost your testocerone naturally… and ya could always use the vacum on high ;0) to get ya started vroom vroom ;0P!

        • Wow, 12 thumbs down for a joke. You people have no sense of humor. To the rest thanks for the great advice. Take her teeth out, lol, then I’d have to involve a dentist.

          • My comment was just a friendly jab. My wife might object to me thinking 3 mins, she just might think I am being too generous to myself.
            With my extra time I figure I can read a comic strip.

          • Don’t sweat it Froggy, you probably only got thumbed down for your joke by the people that suddenly realized their dilemma.

          • Careful of the red pepper. If she gets any of that on her, by the time you catch up to her, she’ll be out back bitin’ the bark off of’n trees.

        • Lili Von Shtupp: Would you like another schnitzengruben?
          Bart: No, thank you. Fifteen is my limit on schnitzengruben.
          Lili Von Shtupp: Well, then how about a little…
          [whispers in his ear]
          Bart: Baby, please! I am not from Havana.
          Lili Von Shtupp: Will I… see you again?
          Bart: Well, it all depends on how much vitamin E I can get my hands on.

          • damn I love that movie..

          • Now I don’t have to tell you good folks what’s been happening in our beloved little country. Sheriff murdered, crops burned, stores looted, people stampeded, and cattle raped. The time has come to act, and act fast. I’m leaving.

            • Where’s the Pour Over Butter Popcorn?

            • Is it black friday again?

      9. The timing on this topic is perfect for me to ask for some recommendations for herbal remedy, medical, and trauma books.
        Come on folks,
        This is where many of you in this prepper community shine.
        My wife has shown interest in this, help me out.
        And also on topic, what are the herbs that can remove heavy metals if we have to deal with radiation?
        Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

        • I worked in the natural medicine industry for around 12 years. I am not a naturopath nor a trained herbalist…more of a self-taught herbalist. This is why a while back I made a recommendation in a post of Lomatium dissectum as a very potent anti-viral. I have a collection of books, including Kings American Dispensatory that was first published in a 1854. I have been out of the industry for around 10 years but will not part with the dispensatory valued at around $500 or any of my other books. If anyone out there has questions or needs help for specific illnesses, I am willing to offer some suggestions or at least try to research for you. Trust me when I say that there is a lot of snake oil out there on the market but there are also some great remedies. My best to all~D

        • Slick ~

          I have a combination of the very very old herbal books and newer texts. If I am not familiar with a remedy I try to cross reference it between at least 3 different books.

          My old faves:

          ~ Gerard’s Herbal (written in Old English but well worth wading through)
          ~ Culpepper’s Herbal ( a few centuries newer)

          The nice thing about the older books is that the herbs are more accessible, as a rule. You can actually go out and find them in the wild.

          Also make sure you have a good LOCAL field guide so you can identify what grows in your area.

        • Detox with:
          Burdock Root-removes radioactive isotopes from body.
          Cilantro Leaf-Natural heavy metal chelator
          Ginsing, Holy basil, reishi mushroom, olive oil,
          bentonite clay, (I put mine into gel-caps), garlic
          onions, beets.
          Take sea salt/baking soda soaking baths too.

          KEEP PREPPIN’

        • Check around at the D.A.V. and salvation army thrift stores, I’ve found them to be good sources of older medical books, that actually have some usable info in them. I’ve found that most of the pre ww2 books will use commonly available drugs, dressings, etc. Most of the newer books don’t tell you much that’s really of any use, most bigger problems it will simply tell you to “take them to the hospital”.
          I would agree with Daisy, a field manual of local edible/medicinal plants is a must. Here in Missouri, the conservation dept prints a very good one, not sure about where you live.

          • countryboyseein,

            I agree. Look in your community for a used book store. I have found older medical books filled with useful information at a used book store. Also, the used books were available for very affordable prices.

            KY Mom

      10. silly suggestion probly… but ummmmm if you DO CARE of what is happening in greece… contact manos or some other folks on facebook in greece and mail them the drugs in need… it’s that simple… it’s just money… coordinate with the greece red crescent and shipem’ what the poor of greece need… i bet the rich aren’t suffering there! just the poor… and unwanted… use the web to help those in need the world over… and your better to go direct then through the red cross and such, cause they only pass on 15% of what you give em’… look up local contacts in greece and send em’ what they need!

        • ninaorket,

          It’s exactly like regarding the donations for unicef.
          Most of the money end up to some fat pocket, God knows where.
          Your suggestion is brave and touching. My only objection is that unfortunatelly, in the months to come, you may need your provisions for your beloved ones.

          I pray for you guys. May our Lord keep you safe.

          • hey who is giving mnaos a fingers down!!!!!! f you man.

            • Don’t sweat it. Trolls are on here as usual.

            • It was me, my fat finger and stupid iPad. Ugh! I could say iPads are good for surfing but then I’d be lying. I think I’ll trade it for 100 rounds of 5.56 and go back to my laptop. Sorry.

          • manos,

            Is there a local church that churches here could become a “sister church” to?

            I read about a church that became a “sister church” to a church in another country. The people in the community at the sister church were having some difficult times. People collected items (food, supplies, etc.) and they were shipped over in boxes. A box would go to a family. People would often insert a letter of encouragement in with the food/supply boxes.

            May God bless and guide you, your family and your people.
            KY Mom

        • A shipment like that would never get past Greek customs.

      11. The timing on this topic is perfect for me to ask for some recommendations for herbal remedy, medical, and trauma books.
        Come on folks,
        This is where many of you in this community shine.
        My wife has shown interest in this, help me out.
        And also on topic, what are the herbs that can remove heavy metals if we have to deal with radiation?
        Sorry for the double post to come.
        Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

        • Oil of Oregano drops. I also keep a bottle of Thieves oil to apply topically if there are colds or whatever going around. I add Tea Tree oil to the Thieves. I never met a bottle of raw cider vinegar I didn’t like, either. We’re going to need the enzymes and nutrition it contains if we’re dining on canned and freeze-dried food. A little raw cider vinegar goes a LONG way-I can only stand a few drops in a glass of water, and it’s cheap, too.

          • We heard that Canada had forbid its citizens from gathering herbs on their own.
            Some alternative media here wrote that, Monsanto is loosing money.
            Is that correct?

            • There are some restrictions here in Canada, Manos, but they aren’t enforced unless you are gathering them for resale. Anyhow, lots of hikers pick “pretty plants” right?

            • i will damn well gather any herbs from my property, of which there are plenty , and if the government has a problem with that…. well we can have a discussion about that if they want to go down that road. the government should start concentrating more on the crimes that they are commiting against the people , and should do the right thing and resign en masse… WE DO NOT NEED OR WANT YOU! PLEASE GO AWAY AND LEAVE US ALONE! If you give up now, much can be forgiven and what not, and we can all play on a level playing field. However if these insiduous crimes dont stop, the people will not be very forgiving. TO THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WESTERN WORLD



        • I’m relying on some bottles of Colloidal Silver as my antibiotic back up. I really don’t know how well it’ll work on a tough infection but it’s better than nothing.
          Also, manuka honey for internal & external infections.
          For radiation SSKI, is great but it’s RX only but if you go to a DR for a toenail infection they’ll give it to you plus refills. My sister used it with DMSO on her toe & it cured it quick. Also she used Milk Thistle for a liver disorder & it cured it so that is a good herb to stock to clear the liver.
          Regardless of what you stock, google the doses & how to’s and keep it with the med.’s because you may not have access when the time comes and you may forget.

          • Don’t forget at TSC, pet store, or vet…amoxicillin for ear, nose and throat and upper respiratory…and ampicillin, for skin, STD??, and ears.

   had good prices for these antibiotics.

          • CS is great, especially for skin ailments and stomach problems.

            I’ve found the secret to making CS: speed is bad. The slower you make it (lower voltage) the better. The silver molecules are smaller and work faster. I used to make it fast but now I put a resistor inline with the electrodes and as the solution becomes more conductive, the voltage drops. Takes 5 times as long but what it makes appears to be more effective.

        • Slick,

          Also if you look around you will find free downloads on Where the is no Doctor And Where there is no Dentist.. If you can’t find them let me know and I dig them up for you, but you are better getting them in print,cause the pdf files are huge..


          • DPS,

            “Where There is No Doctor” and “Where There is No Doctor” are both excellent medical reference books. (These books are available in a number of languages)

            These are medical books written in plain English with lots of pictures. They cover first aid, common illnesses, nutrition, a number of medical problems – treatment and prevention. These books are used extensively by health workers in many countries.

            Scroll down the page to – English titles for download.

            KY Mom

            • KY Mom,

              Yes maam I saved those links. thanks for posting them. Don’t know why but here lately I have a real thrist for reading.




          This is an ideal plant book for beginners and experts to get to know the edible wild flora. Fully illustrated, many original references. Pictorial key to all plants included. You are given keys to identification, and each plant is discussed according to its edible, medicinal, and other practical qualities.

          This illustrated guide to North American wild medicinals has been a nature classic for over thirty years. In this new edition, David K. Foster revises Bradford Angier’s invaluable handbook, updating the taxonomy and adding more than a dozen species, including the purple coneflower, popularly known as echinacea, as well as ephedra, jewelweed, goldenseal, and more. Scientific information for a general audience and full-color illustrations combine with intriguing accounts of the plants’ uses, making this a practical guide for anyone interested in the medicinal uses of wild plants.

        • ~Slick~

          See links below for somewhat helpful stuff….

          …source three books:

          1.) Where there is no Doctor

          2.) Where there is no Dentist

          3.) Ditch medicine

          …regarding heavy metal contamination, research:…FRENCH GREEN CLAY (amazing stuff)!!!

          ——Hope this helps——-

          • ~Slick~


            French Green Clay was utilized by the Soviets after the Chernobyl reactor catastrophe in Ukraine….they mixed it w/ chocolate(making special candy bars) & distributed it among the local population, especially children. It certainly helped to some extent.

            French Green Clay is edible!

            Ask ‘Shroom’ for his take, he’s pretty sharp regarding medical stuff.

            • Addendum #2:

              …And crisp $10 bills in #10 cans!!! He-he, sorry ‘Shroom’, I just couldn’t resist!

              —————-Peace dude—————

              P.S.) took your advice though!

            • @Gunsmith…French food has always been a little rich for my hillbilly blood, but I ate it whenever I had the chance. I don’t recall any being green though!

              What will you do when the internet goes down? Better get a ham radio up and running — from the looks of things the Obomber will be pulling the plug soon. After the SHTF a license won’t matter.

              … (S) #10 cans — (O) crisp $10 bills … (S)



              • “I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.”

                • @RICH99 – I reckon…

                  Josey Wales: [referring to Lone’s dog] Chief, I was just wondering: I suppose that mangy red-bone hound’s got no place else to go either.
                  [spits tobacco juice on the dog’s forehead]
                  Josey Wales: He might as well ride along with us; Hell, everybody else is.

                  …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



                  • Are you going to pull them piss-tolas or whistle Dixie?

                    • My, that’s a BIG one.

                    • @RICH99 — apparently someone doesn’t appreciate Dirty Harry. I thought it wuz gud, though!


                      …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



                    • hey mushy….I get the #10 cans, but why 10 dollar bills?

                    • @RWS III — When TSHTF the lights go out, when the lights go out the credit/debit card swipe machines, ATMs and the computers/cash registers too. People will still be willing to take crisp $10 bills for a while ($20s, $50s and Franklins too)…but just for a LITTLE while. You will still need stuff – or maybe have the opportunity to buy something really cheap with available cash. Even if you are stocked to the ceiling with #10 cans you can still buy fuel and barter stuff to trade with others who need them. Chances are they will only take those worthless fraudulent reserve notes because that’s all the sheep understand. Hope that helps…

                      Sim Carstairs: Ten year I been ferryin’ Kansas Redlegs, Union cavalry, Missouri guerillas… you name it. Mad dogs them guerillas. You look sideways at ’em…
                      [snaps a rope like a noose]
                      Sim Carstairs: they kill ya.
                      Carpetbagger: Sound like hard men to do business with.
                      Sim Carstairs: You bet. You know in my line of work, you gotta be able either to sing “The Battle Hymn Of The Republic” or “Dixie” with equal enthusiasm… dependin’ upon present company.
                      Carpetbagger: Can’t say as I blame you for that. Only good business to play it safe.


                      …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



                    • Thanks, makes sense.
                      Kinda like in Jericho, until the grocery store lady really understood that life was gonna be different for a good while, she still wanted the FRN’s as payment over barter.

                      And gawd I love that movie….all these quotes is making me want to see it again.

                    • @RWS III – glad I cud say something that might edify…but I always try to remember — A man’s gotta know his limitations.


                      …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



                    • That’s why I use a light Special in my .44. This size gun it gives you better control and less recoil than a .357 Magnum with wadcutters

                • I bought a French rifle of gunbroker it has never been shot and only dropped once.

                • I would rather have you if front of me if that pic on the other page is real. I am sure that no soldier will fire upon you!!! You can be my savior.

            • Thanks for the info Gunsmith.
              I have to say on a side note that web site has some of the most knowledgeable, prepared, and honorable individuals that I have had the pleasure to interact with, yourself included Gunsmith.
              Some people may see us as the ones that would be cold and uncaring about our fellow man.
              But, I see us as a “hand up” crowd, and the leaders (wether we want to be or not) in a shtf situation. We all have strength and compassion altho we often try not to show our soft sides,
              It is in our nature to try to save and help who we can. No one here is a tool, we are trust but verify.
              It is exactly because of these qualities that the worthless fed groups, and ptb fear are kind..
              We are not sheep and we are nobodies bitch.

        • check out bentonite clay, or living clay, for removing toxins in the body, and other conditions. Also no one has mentioned collodial silver. I have a set up to make my own. I had it for years, works great. Natural antibiotic with many uses. good luck all, keep the suggestions coming.

          • They sell “food grade” Diatomaceous Earth at many feed stores. It has many medicinal uses. I also use it in my garden to ward off insects. It is important to get “food grade” as the other grade (used in pools) has chemicals which are toxic if ingested.

            For more info., go to these sites:



            In regards to DE, make sure you get the food grade vs. feed grade. It should say Codex on the bag. It’s also a natural de-wormer for people and animals.

            Food grade DE has many uses. Did you know that the food grade is also used as a skin defoliator, to whiten your teeth, but more importantly, when a heaping tablespoonful is taken with juice, water, etc., it lowers blood pressure, lowers triglycerides, and lowers cholesterol. It curbs appetite, keeps bowels regular daily, and more.

            Go to (
            and read all about the human, pet, and misc. use. It keeps bugs off your gardens, worms your animal, gets rid of fleas, kills insects in your home, and more!!!

            Some have also said it also makes your nails grow so long and hard and hair grow well and shiny and fades the brown age spots.

            KY Mom

      12. Store those antibiotics in the fridge. They’ll last longer. And, they are typically still good for years past their expiration date – except those in the cycline family – which become toxic and must be discarded.

        We have lots of antibiotics – mostly for fish & birds. I place a new order every 6 months for a few bottles – I have about 6 or 7 different types and guide sheets for each one of them.

        I’ll use them if I need to in order to save a life in an emergency but I have no plans to use them while we are still functional here in the USA.

        We also have about 4-5 human prescriptions. We do rotate those if we are given one that is identical. To keep our stock fresh.

        • Refrigeration destroys some drugs, especially liquid suspensions. NEVER refrigerate BEFORE you are sure it’s safe to do so…

      13. Just a suggestion but many antibiotics can be cross referenced on the internet with animal drugs from a vet or farm store. Things like Penicillan I think you need to get directly from a vet office but many things are readily available otc at farm and ranch stores. I mark all the drugs for our livestock with what it crosses with in humans.

        • mike,

          Penicillan can be bought at Tractor Supply over the counter. Or Gebo’s I think they will both even ship them to you..


          • Didn’t know that. Everytime we need it, it is because one of our horses has a nasty infection. Always lower leg and always in the joint. I always leave the vet office with a bag of it no matter how much is in the fridge in the barn. Good stuff to have regardless.

            A couple years back I was starting a colt that tried to break me in half. Went to the vet clinic with a badly broken finger. He wouldn’t help me set it because of liability but he x-rayed it for me twice, once before I set it and once after. Not good as new but sure works for what I need it to do.

            • @mike … I did that once when working as a wrangler breakin’ in horses in wyoming… got a concusion , dislocated my right shoulder completely, coming off a true buckin’ green walkin glue factory dude trail horse fresh from winter off season range grazing… I reset it myself hanging from a porch roof support beam… ;0) it still clicks 20 years later and tells me when it’s gonna rain… good times!

        • Opps brain fart mike, I forgot that you know your meds as well..


      14. Ask mushroom about antibiotics, I used to think he was nutz…. LOL..Just kidding sroom Last time I read a post about antibiotics , he was the man to know it.


        Got me a small stack of new $10.00 bills.

        • Here is all you need to know about antibiotics. Except that the supply place she suggests is a bit more expensive than other sources so check around.

          Got to You Tube. Search for The Patriot Nurse.

          Watch these 3 videos of hers:

          1. Top 5 Antibiotics for SHTF Storage
          2. The True Shelf Life of Drugs – What the FDA isn’t Telling
          3. What is an Antibiotic’s REAL job?

          • patriot nurse is a great channel to get very informed about many medical problems. She has so many vids, all extremely usefull.

        • @DPS…it’s good to know that you have listened and learned my son. It will come back to you in due time as a sure blessing. The best antibiotic is colodial silver. You can make it yourself, just be sure to use .9999 silver. Google it, you will learn more. I’m sure many here know about it and will add to my comment, although I’m sure with my history I will receive plenty of thumbs down. I still wonder why I come back for more.

          Jamie: You can’t get ’em all, Josie.
          Josey Wales: That’s a fact.
          Jamie: How come you’re doing this, then?
          Josey Wales: Because I ain’t got nothin’ better to do.

          … #10 cans — crisp $10 bills …



          • sroom,

            Its all good, them thumbs down don’t mean a thing brother, and yes I read ever single post on this site along wtih a couple others. Hell sometimes I even remember who posted what.LOL

            I posted a article about making colodial silver.

            • @DPS and thanks! I learned long ago that what other people think of me is none of my business. I don’t give a damn about the thumbs down — if they erase my comment with them it just makes people read them that much more! Usually whatever they post is good for a chuckle any way!

              I’ve been using colodial silver for about 10 years now, and I haven’t been sick in about that long. It works for me and that’s all I can say. I made my own generator and it still works great. I use three 9 volt nickle cadmium batteries that I can solar recharge, so I don’t have to worry about having power available. It really is important to use the purest silver available. I have a good supply of .9999 silver rods, and the only silver coin I would consider using is a Canadian Maple Leaf – minted in .9999 purity. Other coins have other metals used to harden them and aren’t suitable for injestion.

              [putting his dead friend on a horse and sending him into the enemy camp]
              Josey Wales: This boy was brought up in a time of blood and dying and never questioned a bit of it. He never turned his back on his folks or his kind. I rode with him… and I got no complaints. The blue bellies will give ya a better burial than I can, boy.

              …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills …



            • I reckon so.

          • Four 9’s is FINE but they were too expensive!

          • mushroom,

            Funny how this works, but the people on here that joke alot seem to be some of the smartest people in the room. Myself well I a dumb-ss very little education. I got most of my schooling in the streets of hard knocks, so therefore I ask alot of dumb-ss questions. About the only thing I know is people and 25 plus yrs of in home sales you get pretty good at reading folks.


            • DPS,

              Put a redneck in college and he’ll probably flunk out.
              Put a highly educated MD PHD type college graduate in the wilderness to survive on his own, and he’ll probably die.

              Intelligence is a relative term.

              I got D’s and C’s if I was lucky in geometry and trigonometry in high school, yet in my early years in sheet metal layout and fabrication even though geometry, trigonometry, and triangulation play a huge part.

              I simply did a redneck work around and excelled.

              Basically I just through out the 95% that doesn’t matter its just filler and never needed in the REAL world.

              There are no dumb questions buddy just dumb answers.

              A hillbilly goes to college, 3 years he is home on break having dinner with his family.
              “Well son, you done gone to college so you must be perty smart. Why don’t you speak some math fer’ us?”

              “Ok, Pa”, the son said then, “Pi R squared.”

              After a moment the Dad said, “Why son, they ain’t teached ya nothin’! Pie are round, cornbread are square.”

            • Hi DPS,
              Now, I am sure you have heard the term “Book smart and street stupid”. Life experience makes for the smartest people. You, my friend, are no dumb-ss. Didn’t you say that you are debt free? That makes you pretty darned smart in my book! You don’t have to go to an ivy league school or any other college to get an education. Read, live life, work hard, make mistakes and most importantly learn from those mistakes and you earn the degree of life! I would rather have that, than a framed diploma on my wall. Besides, look at DC, and tell me how smart those educated elites are…they have screwed things up so badly and aren’t even learning from the mistakes (past or present)…take Bernanke for example. Have an awesome weekend DPS. ~D

          • Thank you! I didn’t know about colloidal Silver. Just got done doing some reading about it. Not sure how to make it, going to try to figure that out tomorrow. But thanks for that info, most others I am sure already have heard of it, but I hadn’t.

            • you can pick up a kit online. the battery pack version shroom mentioned works great. I have the same kind. simple but effective. The rods last a long time. make sure you use distilled water in the process. city or well water messes up the reaction. Plus, buy a meter to check concentration of solution. that will take the guess work out of figuring out parts per million concentration.

            • Mike, my brother bought some scent reducing spray for deer hunting, (dumb ass falling for the marketing) it has colloidal silver in it and I was like, whoo hoo I’m gonna snag this from him….but to my dismay the label says do not ingest, I assume its because of all the other crap in it.
              I’ve been aware of it for several years, but have never attempted to make any. From my understanding, its easy to make so long as you follow the guidelines.

              I believe what matters more is the dosage, I do believe I read that one can definitely take to much.

              I just drink my shine and rarely get sick…..hang overs yes, colds, flue, illness no….

            • RWS I still have to read more but it looks as though all I need is some batteries, aligator clips, an aquarium oxygen thing and some coins. But I don’t know if the coins get ruined or if they can be reused?
              I found it interesting that one site said that its popularity decreased in 1938 which was the same year the FDA was given increased authority.
              Like I said I am going to read more and buy some uncirculated silver eagles and try it.

            • Just don’t turn yourself blue.

            • Mike I believe from what I have read 14 gauge 95-99% pure silver is the preferred silver to use.

          • Wow!
            I have a whole new different opinion about you Mr. Mushroom.
            I obviously can not snatch the avocado seed from your hand on this topic.
            May I call you, Sifu ?

      15. Like the idea nina. We get Greek doctors and nurses to take stuff over when they visit. We usually donate out of date medical kit to local animal rescue centres, there is noting more wrong with it than a tin of beans that is a week past it’s date, but by law we cannot use it. Technically it cannot be used on any people anywhere so we send it to a Greek animal shelter that happens to be the home of an orthopaedic surgeon that owns a dog and two chickens,it has worked well so far.

        By the by an update on info from the new job. Drugs and kit are being stockpiled over here, and the security is tighter than I have ever seen in 30 years of hospital work.usually opiates are double locked secondary drugs single locked, and everything else in a store room. Now the first two groups are the same but the common drugs are in a locked store room. Each anaesthetic room puts it’s drugs into the locked room at the end of the day and gets them out the next morning, signing for any additions needed to stock up for the shift. This is happening on wards and departments as well as in operating theatres. In a&e each bay has a tray of counted drugs in a small locked cupboard and anything else has to be asked for, emergency drugs are brought out as required and usually end up being signed for retrospectively.

        As for the training I am supposed to be giving to doctors, well, as suspected, most are actually serving military and police that have done some basic emergency training and are mow topping up their skills, most are just not good enough to pass the course, not because they are stupid but because they just don’ have the background knowledge to cope. We have been told in no uncertain terms that these people are going to pass the course. I have pulled out, I will not pass someone on a medical course that doesn’t know what they are doing, I just won’t do it. I am now in accident and emergency and a tech with no scruples has taken my place. I am disgusted and probably stupidly have made my feelings known. I have been told by the chief executive to keep my mouth shut.

        I have to very carefully consider my future, I want to work, but I have a feeling that all is not going to be well in my medical career future, I get the feeling that as soon as they are able something to do with patient will be put down to negligence or incompetence or something and the next thing I know every facet of my life will be pulled apart in the race to get a conviction.

        i am actively looking for other work, I have seen this happen to others, to the point where three of them committed suicide, it will not be happening to me. I will not be using my name on here anymore but those of you who have gotten to know me just a little over the last few months will know my new disguise.

        God I sound paranoid don’t I?

        Hide my ip will be in place within the hour, look out for me, I still have so much to learn from you.

        Take care from across the pond x

        • Take care of yourself @CarolieUK… remember your number #1 priority is your child… let guys like me, dps, etc etc poke our heads up, an get shot at ;0) we’re made for this stuff, you ma’am need to keep your head down… take care to provide for yur’ baby. Keep a low profile… The nwo.zionist system is going to force us all too choose sides soon… you can best serve the FREEDOM movement by being a silent mole… our eye’s in england… ;0) watch your six CarolieUK , we’re behind you as best as we can be across the pond! ;0)

        • Alarming stuff, Carolie. I’m sorry that your new job was not all that you had hoped for. And remember the old quote “Are you paranoid if people really ARE watching you?”

          Make sure you change your ip also – it’s very very easy to reset – just google it.

          Best of luck – you and your lil girl are in my prayers. I look forward to seeing you in your “new identity”.


      16. For alternative and herbal remedies for just about anything, check out and see what they suggest. It’s a fantastic website and includes the latest in what is going on in the world today. You can order just about anything in their store or online somewhere…or at your local health food store. I believe we are way too dependent on allopathic medicine. The native Americans didn’t have man made or synthetic medicines and they thrived. BTW…I make colloidal silver, which is a great antibiotic. It doesn’t take much to make a bacterial infection go away! You can make your own (it’s expensive to buy ready made) costing pennies per batch. Just have to have the machine and steamed distilled water.

        • Honey is a natural antimicrobial, propolis is a natural antibiotic, which can also be gotten from bees

        • The native Americans didn’t have all the junk and toxins in the air,food and water we have to breath in and consume either………..think about it……

          • That meal was damn good. I’m gonna take up teepee livin’ if it’s like this. You know she thinks I’m some kind of a Cherokee chief.

      17. read slep program military did regarding rx drugs//and my daughter also has type I, i heard of individuals during wwii that kept loved ones alive using homemade drugs, but it isn’t on internet now…would also like info if anyone has it…can’t believe we actually have to think like this, but better to dig for water before we’re thirsty..thanks to all.

      18. Some Animal antibiotics are the same as human antibiotics and cost less.

        Just saying….

        • Amoxicillan is one of those – you can get it at the farm supply store.

          • “Fish Mox” is a popular brand down south.
            Also try “Fish Cillan” (ampicillan).

          • Do you need a script?

            • No, its an “aquarium” antibiotic. Basically unrefined, but works just the same for me. Dosing information can be found at “What to do when there’s no doctor”. Hey, aren’t you my neighbor in NC?

      19. This brings me back to the story about wealthy Britons adopting Greek donkeys whose owners can no longer afford to provide them with food and medical care.

        I have contempt for many (but not all) animal lovers and for the PETA mafia. I feel that a good percentage of animal lovers are actually just human haters, the same way I feel a lot of feminists are actually just men haters. Anyone who puts animal welfare before humans welfare at any level is an mentally-ill sociopath. I’ve asked several dog owners if they had to choose between their beloved dog dying and a random homeless bum (human) dying, which would they choose. Several gave me an ice cold stare and in all seriousness, told me the human would have to die.

        My point? Well, I’m not sure, but I can assure you that if meds are in short supply, some derranged pet owners will hoard valuable meds at the expense of human life.

        • I love my animals, all animals and children. I think it has more to do with their innocence. They love you no matter what and don’t ask for much. I would never put a human life before an animals, unless they were part of the PTB. I think most people that love and care about animals feel the same way.

          Some people love animals because they were treated badly by humans when they were young. There are lot’s of reasons why, but the ones that would choose an animal over a human are IMHO very few.

          If you want a best friend for life who will never let you down, get a dog, a cat, a rooster or a horse. I have them all and I bet everyone of them would die for me.

          • I love animals and detest their abuse, but it’s the insane animals-first PETA mafia and the “my dog is worth more than a human” people that I have an issue with. See my response to Fed Up and mike below…

        • I find it interesting that you think a human life is more valuable than another animal’s life. In case you were not taught or forgot, humans are animals too.

          If I had to choose between a horse that can plow a field, provide transportation, be a possible barter item or a future meal and saving a stranger’s life in a SHTF scenario with my antibiotics (assuming I had limited amounts), you can bet I’D KEEP MY HORSE! So, by your own words, I am one of those “mentally-ill sociopaths” because I value my own well being (and those in my group)more than yours or some other human beings. There is a way to avoid the whole “who gets the antibiotics” issue to start with.

          A good way to avoid being without antibiotics is to learn how to make them yourself. It isn’t as hard as the drug companies would have you believe, and it avoids having to choose between your fellow man and your life sustaining “pets” or “cattle”. This is one of those skills we would all do well to learn.

          I have read folks here comment that they would have no problem shooting someone who came to their home/property if SHTF because the individual in question didn’t prepare and they weren’t taking on extra people, weren’t going to take any chances, etc. These same folks have commented that the people they shot would make good compost for their gardens. Deranged? Well, that depends on your perspective.

          If society really broke down to the point where antibiotics were no longer available it would truely be every man for himself. I repeat, I would rather care for the folks in my group and their well being *including any animals that are useful* than save someone outside of my group in a true SHTF situation.

          • you make some good points. people don’t understand that when things get real bad, the way they think now, may not be the way they think then. perspective is everything. Hard decisions will have to be made in the future, and they won’t come easy.
            I also wouldn’t have any problem choosing to keep an animal alive , over a human outside my group, if the function of that animal helped keep my group alive. it’s all about perspective, and commmon sense. Sometimes what you have to do, isn’t necessarily what you want to do.

        • @Toomanyfakeconservatives: I hate to put it this way, but my dogs and horses are not only my friends, they are also my tools. They will get better treatment than you, and me. Unless you can carry me around a section of land checking cattle, the meds are for them.

        • @Fed Up

          Before reading your posts, I was thinking about qualifying my position regarding livestock, work animals, guard dogs, and such. Animals that are employed in agriculture, destined for the slaughterhouse, or serve a function that ultimately feeds or protects humans are certainly worthy of antibiotics/drugs, perhaps even if it is at the expense of a human life, especially during a SHTF event.

          It’s the insanity of the PETA crowd and their animals-first attitude that I’m against. It’s the idea of wealthy Britons providing food and medicine to starving donkeys over starving Greeks (humans) that I don’t agree with. It’s the dog lovers who would actually sacrifice a human life so their mutt could live that I don’t agree with.

      20. @all … if anyone wants a shtf emergency med book library sent to them contact @ms. daisy… i will make my digital library available to her… just contact her at her blog, of your info desires i.e. emergency first aid, surgery, herbs, shelters etc etc and I will have her send it to you via anonymous email… pls use anonymous email accounts created outside the usa! – thanks… Tekroanin ;0)

        • Just remember if you use 9v batteries, to wire them in series as the tutorial shows. In series voltage output increases, in parallel it decreases.

        • DPS…Hi again, I am sure you are on to the “new” article by now but I was going to mention that I read this the other day too. Also, somewhere on the site you posted above is a link to a Dr. that you can order antibiotic packs from! I have to go back and search for it because I don’t remember the name and didn’t think to write it down. 🙁 It stinks to get old…and I will be checking off another year if a few more days. Time to start taking ginkgo. arrgh!

          • NSBF,

            I always come back and read all the post brother, i believe smokey mountain lady has ordered from that Doc. Everything I have read about him and wives are all good, I looked at the site a while back but the prices are way out of reach for me. So you might ask her about it. And thanks for the kind words just some days I have to reread some of these post, This site has some really smart peeps..LOL, you have a great weekend to brother.


            • Awesome! That is the one. 🙂 You saved me from looking back through there. I was going to but have been suffering from a sinus migraine most of the day and the computer has been killing my eyes. I agree, they are pretty expensive and I hope to order at least one pack. I have a gut condition that can flare and requires treatment from a pretty potent antibiotic. It can be life threatening if left untreated. I have to be treated with augmentin because I am allergic to all sulpha drugs. Unfortunately, that is the more expensive pack. It has been almost two years since an incident and hopefully I will never have another one but if I do, I would need the augmentin. Anyway, thanks again for finding the name of the sight. Note, I am Miss Molly on tsb. 🙂 Blessings~D

            • @DPS, Boy. do I feel really silly. Just noticed that Silver Bean posted the link at the beginning of the comments here! LOL! Don’t know how I missed that one….but thanks for posting it again.

      21. Check out bitter melon and cinnamon to help control blood sugar levels. Not yet proven but is being looked at.

        Beware of preparations that stop Diahrrea they seal the bugs in, home made probiotic yoghurt is a good daily preventative that has proven worthwhile even for patients with clostridium diffecile which can easily kill a person. Gastric issues will kill off hundreds of thousands when their resistance is low.prevention really is better than cure with this

        Beware of slow overdose with paracetamol, the stat dose is up to 8x500mg for adults but it never says how big the adult has to be, a huge bloke v a small woman, both can take 8 a day. That’s why there are so many small people trying to control chronic pain that end up needing a liver transplant, paracetamol is cumulative, to control pain use combination therapy, ibuprofen, aspirin and paracetamol, one of each will work better than loads of any single one and is safe as they are all metabolised at different speeds. They act on pain in different ways and therefore are a multiple pronged attack.

        Honey is an excellent antibacterial.

        In dire circumstances the easiest way to clean a badly infected wound is to stick a couple of live maggots on it and bandage, check wound every six hours. The maggots eat the crap. Very disgusting but very reliable. Ifyou have no maggots allow a fly to land on a bit of meat, you will soon have many maggots.

        Us conventional medical types have been known to know a bit about unconventional methods.
        The advice about cyclone antibiotics is spot on, they are really toxic if past their use by date.
        I am sure you all know that bicarbonate of soda makes an excellent toothpaste/mouth cleanser and toothache can be greatly relieved with clove oil.

        Nina o like your advise to Carolie.

        • Make sure you have the right fly species. Some maggot species only eat dead tissue but some species are happy to munch away on live tissue.

      22. Has anyone seen Quick Clot anywhere? Can’t seem to find it in my area, tried CVS & Walmart. I heard once that Cheyenne pepper does the same, but ouch.

        • ebay and amazon dot com.
          Put the pepper into gel caps. You can buy a capsule
          maker and make them really fast and easy.

        • Sandy celox is as good or better than quick clot and don’t forget about the old fashioned low tech methods.
          Alum–aluminum sulfide in powder form
          Honey for mild bleeding
          and yes pepper

        • Sandy…a plant called “yarrow”is a good coagulant…it grows wild and has fernlike leaves and a flowerette made up of small individual flowers…even has a “medicine-y” smell…fresh or dry packed onto a wound it causes blood to clot up.Im sure you can find a discription online somewhere…I use it as a mild stomach settling tea but please do your own research before using anything you dont absolutly know for a fact…hope that helps.

      23. @ manos

        Very best of luck for you & your’s Sir!



        Thanks to all who’ve posted, some very good and helpful (for me who’s still in the prepper-learning stage)

        Regards2All 🙂

      24. Talking of shit hitting the fan, or the rubbish bag of your makeshift toilet….sodium silicate added to the bag of waste is a good idea. When the container is ready for disposal add Epsom salts and the mass/mess will turn into a gel containing the waste and therefore
        Revenging spillage and contamination.

        Thought this may be useful.

      25. Revenging??

        Preventing, bloody Ibad

      26. As someone who has a chronic medical condition that is controlled by medications, I’ve accepted the fact that when the SHTF, I will be one of those people who dies from lack of healthcare. That’s just the reality of the situation. There’s no place in our future for people like me with chronic illnesses, barring some kind of outside intervention. I haven’t started digging a grave in my backyard yet, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to start.

        • Phoenix, your future may be longer than mine for all we know. I am healthy but I am also someone that very well may be targeted. We just don’t know. You may find that you dig your own grave only to fill it with others long before yourself.
          My wife has something that she takes injections for. They say she will go blind and eventually be in a wheel chair. I can tease her about removing the front steps if she makes me mad to lighten the mood, but it weighs heavily on me.

          • @mike & PhoenixRising

            mike, I agree with your assessment that those with certain illnesses may outlive some of us with healthy, strong bodies and immune systems. Certain viruses and bacteria target the healthy and young and don’t impact those with compromised systems, strange as it is. It is one of those things no one can predict.

            PhoenixRising, I wouldn’t start digging that grave. You may very well outlive many here! No one knows what the future brings.

            I have seen cancer that has nearly killed a young man (he was literally on his death bed) go into remission and that man is living the rest of his life without further upset from it -at least so far(it has been over 14 years). The doctors were baffled. Things like that happen.

            Cures for things that once killed us humans have been found. There is always hope and you never know what is going to be discovered. Until SHTF, if I were you PhoenixRising, I wouldn’t worry too hard (though I know that is easier said than done). Best to you!

            • I’m not saying I’m ready to give up. I’m just being a realist. When the meds run out, they run out. And I’m ok with that. Whether I’m alive here or looking on from the ‘other side’, I will be pulling for the complete liberation of all humanity and the end to this evil globalist garbage.

            • I know this is late and probably no one will read it, but I just wanted to add that a huge number of natural remedies have been suppressed by the FDA on behalf of Big Pharma. They’re not gone, though. They are still there, often underground. I (painfully) went into a Walmart yesterday, and saw a Mucinex display, and laughed. 14 pills for $11.98. Mullein, the plant that drug is synthesized from, is ubiquitous here, and free for the taking. Makes a pretty decent tea, too. I’ve seen one substance, which I will not mention here, cure Hep C and MRSA, and drop HIV viral loads to nothing.

              The end of the monopolistic pharma industry and their fed enforcers will actually open up a whole new world of health care, as opposed to the sick care that industry promotes for profit reasons.

      27. One helpful item that is easy to stock up on is mint oil. Useful painkiller. and does do some disinfecting as well.
        I get headaches from a back issue that mint is the only thing that even touches them.

      28. Looks like it’s Classic Movie Day at shtfplan! Anybody remember these?

        “How old are you?”
        ‘I believe I will tell you. I’m seven thousand three hundred and twenty two…this October.’

        “I’d like to kiss you.”
        ‘Well, alright. But…you’re so damned ugly!’

        ‘I was a whore holder at madam horse…a horse holder at Madame Orr’s house.’

        ‘Good party. But no whiskey. We go home.’

        ‘Now you fly the plane, and I’m gonna make us some old fashioneds the old fashioned way, the way dear old Dad used to make em.’
        “What if something goes wrong!?”
        ‘What could possibly go wrong with an old fashioned?’

        • smokiin,
          Damn I only know 1 of them , McClintock ‘Good party. But no whiskey. We go home.’got it on DVR..


      29. Mac,
        You know since you got voted 1st on the blogs you have a whole new following, and from what I see they all seem to be pretty good folks. As for manos if we can find a way to send him some supplies, I am all in. I can’t think of another person that deserves a hand up. “not a hand out”


      30. The life expectancy in the US in 1900 was roughly 45 years old. Expect pretty much the same. You might get it up to 55 without real services: I’ll bet 50 at best.

        If the SHTF your walking back 100 years.

        • K2,
          I really don’t think your longevity formula would apply in a modern day scenario.
          First, the initial die off would be significant. And I think you might be generous in your numbers for the next wave, as they have no off grid skills.
          And the people on this site will exceed those ages because of who we are and what we do…
          We prepare.

          • Thinking along your lines of life expectancy Slick… I’ve been wondering how hard it would be to synthisize natural vaccines. We came up with the smallpox vaccine from the realization the milkmaids who were exposed to cowpox were immune to smallpox. I think some creative mind would figure out others that big-pharm has an iron grip on right now. Need is the mother of invention. The gears in my learn-ed mind are always grinding 😉

            I think creativity and the store of knowledge we have now would also prolong life. Unless all of the books dissapear and everyone with skill sets dies off and only those who are simple are left, I think life expectancy wouldn’t be too bad. I also think folks would become hardy again -we would have no other choice!

      31. The doomed individuals will become the nothing-to-lose spearhead that will be the tip of the spear that will overthrow the regime in any such nation.
        If a guy realizes he’s counting down his last 30 days of insulin or something, he’ll realize he now has nothing to lose and can do whatever he wants in his last month!
        Those nondeterrable rebels will be unstoppable.

      32. Greeting Everyone!
        Thanx to all about the info on RX’s at the Tractor Supply store(bought my lawn mower there because they were locally-owned and the brands offered were US)I wonder with the increase in insulin sensitive pets if there is a “pet version”? I’ll be looking into the “other” stuff as well.Being sick isn’t fun,NOT having any available(read affordable)is deadly(given the Greek crisis heading our way soon).
        I’d heard about vet RXs being almost equivalent to human.
        Bet that’s where the expression “big as horse pills” comes from.
        Best to All
        P.S. I’ll stop at age 39.5 and holding….(Jack Benny’s fav year)

        • If you ever get the chance to go to a plant where medicines are produced, you will see that one line goes to the left and is labeled “For Human Use” and one line goes to the right “For Veterinary Use Only”.

          I have purchased medications from the vet for animals over the years that are identical to meds my family doc prescribed for me that I picked up from the local pharmacy -two examples are doxycyline and amoxicillin. The only difference in the meds was their price!!!

      33. meet the next illegally elected nwo.zionist.oligarchy.banker.prez MITT ROMNEY …

        Bain, the company co-founded by Mitt Romney, made at least $12 million on the steel company it created by merging the Kansas City GST steel mill with another in South Carolina before the new entity declared bankruptcy in 2001, closing both plants, firing the workers, the shorting them on their pensions until a taxpayer-funded bailout was needed to clean up the mess.

        Only a american idiotic FOOL would vote for mitt romney.

        HELP Save America… VOTE : RON PAUL 2012 for president!

        whatreallyhappened (dot) com

        • Well……the fools are voting for him. He’s even leading in the SC polls.

          What we need is for Huntsman, Gingrich, etc to drop out and then Romney can be defeated by Paul.

          I don’t see it happening though. Gigantic egos.

          • Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism…


            …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



      34. Hi all,

        I really appreciate your suggestion for sending us stuff.
        There is no need, at least not yet.
        I still have a job, even if it’s low payed. I’m healthy, and there is still the property in my village.
        But if and when i’m in the need of something, you guys will be the first place to ask for help.
        And this of course is vise versa. As long as i have something, please don’t hesitate.

        now let me tell you the crazy system we live here.
        It was Spring of 1999, when a 2 y.o. boy, entered a Greek hospital due to health problems.
        The diagnose was leuchemia (blood cancer). Treatment and cure back then, was impossible to procceed in Greece, so after some search and connections, the U.S. Memorial hospital accepted the kid.
        But the amount touched around 100.000 dollars, which was tough for the poor family. Donations were given from all over Greece, and people deposited in an account at the National Bank of Greece, the amount of 300.000 dollars.
        All preparations were finished and the only thing open yet was for the bank to provide the money.
        But the bastards bankers, relied on some filthy law of 1931 (law 5101/1931) which forbids money to be given from accounts opened for charity purposes, if the account’s opening has happened before declaring to the government the actual purpose of the charity.
        Due to the urgent of the disease, the father opened the account and then this was given to the mass media for further use.
        The boy died in spring of 2001 at the age of 4, and no money were ever given for medical purposes.
        Four banksters and one doctor went to the court as responsible for the kid’s death. In 2009, the courts announced, that no one should held responsible for the killing.

        Please watch the next video. It’s in Greek, but human pain do not need translation.
        Pray for this poor soul, and pray for all the human kind.


        • They are the chosen ones, which will survive, while you and I won’t.

      35. Sandy: you can buy woundseal at Walgrens for about $7.00 per package, 4 small packages for small wounds, I believe it’s made for free bleeders.

        • Thanks, we should probably get all of our Tetanus shots updated too. It’s kinda ironic that we had the most bad luck during a short duration that we didn’t have medical insurance, my kids are a magnet to accidents. Next time I’m near a Walgreens I’ll have to remember to stop in.

        • Heck, we have people doing that here in the USA! The occupy fools left a baby in a tent.

          • Never underestimate the ignorance of large groups of dumbasses!


            …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…



        • I saw that on Drudge and it just broke my heart!!!

      36. If medicine becomes hard to find, use large doses of copper covered lead on the politicians and the medicine will magically reappear!

      37. Hi Gang, haven’t posted for a while. Life goes on at the farm.
        I need to tell Manos, I put him on my prayer list to pray for him this month. It breaks my heart all that is happening.

        The Lord knoweth the way of the upright, and their inheritance shall be forever. They shall not be ashamed in the evil time; and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
        Prov. 37:18-19

        Love you all.
        Stay prayed up, keep prepping Lynda

        • Lynda,

          God bless you, your family, and the people you love and care about.

          Our religion is the last free right, being left to Christians.


      38. It’s me again, Just a warning to the person just getting started with herbal medicines. Just because it is herbal, don’t think it can’t hurt you. I have used herbal remedies for 20 years now when needed. Some people call me a health nut because I don’t run to doctors, unless I’m really sick. And I’m not the kind of person to just turn myself over to doctors. You know what I mean. Having said that, when I was younger I took a lot of herbs like echinacea, black cohosh, dong quai,valerian, and others. I did not know how dangerous these were if you took to many or at the wrong time. I had not done enough research. Thank God I did not kill myself. And you can have reations to some herbs depending on your system and what other medications you are taking.
        So always be careful taking herbal remidies. All of the books posted by my SHTF friends will give you all the info you need

        Also natural antibiotics work slower than synthetic medicines. Things like any strep bacteria need to be treated right away with an atibiotic that will stop the spread of the germ or while you will get better in 3 to 7 days, you won’t be infecting others.
        Rememeber to stock probiotics and digetive enzyems. Magnesium, the forgotten mineral will help remove toxins from your system and help you get a good nights sleep.(Powder in water much better than pills). There have been very great results using magnesium to treat ADHD and simular disorders. Check out for some very useful info.I keep magnesium/calcium products in my SHTF first aid kits. Can use for many disorders in a situation where there are no doctors.

        I have a lot of information on vitamins and herbal uses.I had my own business a few years ago. I did research project for clients. So I’m good at answering questions.
        I would help anyone who just wanted some infomation.

        Sorry for the long post. Oh be careful with the silver, it works, some people have a reaction. Always tell someone when you try a herb for the first time as a medicine. okay. I’m finished.

        Prayed up and prepping.

        • Guns

          • Don’t forget:



            Its the 7Gs of Modern Survival. Google it. Read it.

      39. Here is how to make aspirin. I haven’t tried this yet, but I know aspirin is a fairly basic concoction. It should be noted that not only is aspirin superior as a pain reliever, it is also used extensively as a blood thinner, so injuries (such as deep contusions to the legs) that could result in blood clots can be rendered less dangerous with simple aspirin.

      40. Here is a more basic backwoods method for extracting salicylic acid, which is the operative ingredient.

        Be aware of the contraindications. Some people are allergic. Children under 18 years old can contract Reyes syndrome from aspirin. There are some situations where the blood thinning properties of synthesized aspirin are not appropriate; for instance, that could be a disaster for a hemophiliac.

      41. Greeks that can’t find medicines should consider taking a bus over the border to Turkey or Bulgaria (virtually everything is availible OTC) and buying there instead. Many Greek doctors are useless Mafia…But then lots of again Greeks are babies and hypochrondriacs and love consultings with them…

      42. no wonder our MSM covers Kim Kardashian’s herpes outbreaks more than the debacle in Greece….a whole European nation going to the dogs and you won’t hear a peep about it on CNBC, MSNBC, CNN or Fox.

        Hafta go to “Al Jazeera”,”BBC” and “Russia Today” to hear anything about it….

      43. My wife needs to take methylprednisone daily as her body will no longer produce it on her own due an illness years ago. Is there a substitute available? Or a way to stock up without prescription? Thanks.

      44. I fear the time when those on psychiatric meds (for depression or whatever) can’t get them and turn a bit crazy or even hostile.

      45. Herbal medicines may be all our Grandkids have in future! I’m so glad I realised this was knowledge in danger of dying out and listened HARD as a kid to my Grandma. With a pharmacst for a Godfather and a GP for a foster bro I’ve been sending the last 10 years learning all could of what the scientific effects (esp contraindcations!) of my Gran’s herbal remedies.

        How you grow them makes a difference to potency, as does the effects of the weather for storing next years seeds. Seed storing has been harder than I thought in particular, not every year has been a success, and when tshtf you won’t have the chance to practice before it’s a matter of heal/eat or starve.

        It’s all very, very complex and not something you can learn overnight.

        I have a son on a special diet and both he and his Dad are penecillin allergic. This is stuff I feel I NEED to know before tshtf. Simple stuff like in the 3rd world vitA is considered a major remedy against the worst effects of measles may someday save a life once regular childhood vaccinations aren’t available.

        Can you make soap? Hygiene and water purity are the two biggest way to insure against ill health in a SHTF scenario. This has been a major focus of my studies as don’t want anyone on my watch dying for what consider to be such a simple thing.

        Lice/vermin will also be an issue in shtf situations. Lice transmit disease and we won’t be able to the chemist to get rid of them. Metal containers protect food in the 3rd world from vermin.

        Disease from preventable causes has been responsible for more soldiers/civilian deaths in every disaster since the beginning of time. If your bug out group is lucky enough to have a doctor you want their skills more finely focussed than reminding people to wash ther hands after they poop!

        Laundry without electric becomes a MAJOR hassle yet is essential in a sickroom situation or with babies etc.

        I may not be a bloke with lots of weapons knowledge but the hygiene/healing skills I’ve aquired wll hopefull mean I’m not just a useless “tagalong” bemoaning my broken nail when tshtf.

      46. It will be survival of the fittest.

        Watch the movie “Eleni” again.

        The person who killed Eleni won, and his descendants will probably do fine if they inherited his genes to do well.

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