This article has been generously contributed for your consideration and reading pleasure by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market.com.
Editor’s Note: While primarily focused on cold weather bug-out lessons, much of the information Brandon provides below is applicable to hot weather scenarios as well. If you’ve ever gone through a heat spell or drought in the Southern states you’re keenly aware of the dangers posed in the event of an emergency situtation that would require you to bug-out. Excessive temperature swings, lack of food and water, and insufficient shelter, just as in winter scenarios, can be a killer in temperatures that exceed 100 degrees. The lessons outlined below, namely community and team building, the concept of caches, and overall preparedness and planning can be life savers regardless of the climate conditions you may face.
One of the fantastic advantages of living in what James Wesley, Rawles often refers to as the American Redoubt is the ample opportunity for full-spectrum training in some of the roughest terrain in the United States. In the Flathead Valley of Montana in particular, preppers and survivalists abound, with the organizational help of Stewart Rhodes and Oath Keepers, Chuck Baldwin and Liberty Fellowship, and my own Montana Safe Haven Project, liberty minded residents here are surrounded by an atmosphere of independence and self reliance. If you want to completely immerse yourself in the survivalist dynamic, this is one of the best places to do it.
Spring is now breaking through the winter snows, and soon even more training will be possible, but during the icy months I did get an opportunity to engage in some hands-on practice with a team of people in what I feel is probably the WORST possible scenario for the prepper; the cold weather bug-out.
The bug-out strategy in general is for all intents and purposes a last ditch effort at survival. It is used only when a collapse is at its apex, your homestead is under siege or at risk of being overrun, or when your secondary retreat location is compromised and unsafe. During wintertime, the danger is increased tenfold by multiple factors, including:
Limited Mobility: There are ways around it, but usually snow and ice make bugging out, especially on foot, a real headache.
Limited Food Sources: Is wild food still available? Yes. But nowhere near as easy to gather than in warmer seasons. Without intense preparation for a winter bug out, you will starve.
Warmth Dominates Time: In a rushed escape into back country during winter, the desire to stay warm will rule over almost every decision you make, and can eat up precious hours of the day better spent gathering food and planning a defense. It is a distraction you cannot afford.
Fire Building Frustrations: In the event that you are lucky enough to not have to worry about light discipline, snow covered forests can still make fire building an exhaustive affair. With wet or buried tinder, rock solid frozen ground, and difficult mobility, just putting together an adequate blaze could be maddening. After your fire is started, keeping it fed through the night can lead to limited rest and eventual sleep deprivation.
Condensation: This is the arch nemesis of the survivalist in the middle of a winter bug-out. Forget wolves, bears, and hungry hordes of the unprepared roaming the hills; the incessant collection of water condensation on clothing, gear, and stocked tinder, is a heat depriving force to be reckoned with.
At bottom, the methods for bug-out training we use often in the spring, summer, and fall, just don’t cut it during the winter. In places like the Redoubt, they can be shockingly ineffective. Remember, if you find yourself in the middle of a winter bug-out, you have likely hit absolute rock bottom, but the pain can be eased or even nullified with heavy planning over the course of the next six months. I recommend every prepper take advantage of the planting season not only to build their gardens but to also set aside the following provisions, just in case…
Bug-Out-Bag Upgrade
The following is a list of items that made our lives easier (or would have made our lives easier) in the rugged backwoods of snow laden Montana. If you don’t have these tools in your BOB, get them!
Best Tinder: Searching tree wells for dead wood and tinder is all fine and good, but even then, much of what you collect will have soaked up at least some condensation. You need to pack tinder that burns extra hot, or extra long, to compensate for this. The most effective tinder we used included cotton balls soaked in petroleum jelly, small firestarter bricks (pieces can be shaved off as needed), strike-a-fire tinder (tinder sticks that light like matches), and magnesium shavings (collect shavings into rolling paper and add a chunk of firestarter). Water proof matches and flint are a must, obviously.
Hand Axe: A good hatchet with a steel handle that is melded perfectly into the blade is a timesaver, and a life saver. Hand saws and wire saws are mostly a waste of energy.
High Grade Camp Knife: A fixed blade camp knife with a full tang along with a small knife sharpener is an absolute necessity. You will use it constantly, especially in the cold when making tinder is an uphill battle.
Waterproof Tarp: In rain or snow, your makeshift shelter will eventually start springing leaks unless you have a heavy duty trash bag or tarp overhead. Folded up, this item does not take up very much weight or space in your pack, and makes life in the woods so much more bearable.
Snow Gaiters: Even with the best waterproof boots, trudging through the snow tends to draw moisture into your pants and socks, and there is nothing worse than being stuck with wet socks in the middle of a cold bug-out. Snow Gaiters wrap around the top of your boots and bottom of your pants, providing extra protection against moisture.
Extra Socks: Most preppers have at least a couple pairs of wool socks in their pack. I recommend a minimum three pairs just to be sure.
Snow Shoes: Before heading out into the mountains for our cold weather survival training, we held an indoor class on essential items and strategies attended by a large number of people within the Liberty Movement community here in the valley. One of our primary focuses was winter mobility. Depending on the amount of snow and how compact it was, skis could be a fantastic tool for a cold weather bug out. Most of us, though, used snow shoes, which work adequately even when snow is iced over and compacted. Without snow shoes, we would have gone nowhere fast, and they are a must for any survivalist who may have to traverse icy terrain.
Biomass Stove: A “biomass stove” is just a fancy name for a portable camp stove that burns wood. For those taking a jaunt into the woods for the weekend, a Jetboil with its limited fuel canisters is fine. But for those facing a bug-out situation, a Bushbuddy or similar stove which uses fuel readily available everywhere is the correct choice. Biomass stoves also greatly reduce light and heat signatures over the use of an open fire, in case this is a concern (which it might be).
Thermal Blanket: A thermal blankets adds mere ounces to your pack and if used correctly, can help to maintain warmth consistency within your shelter. I recommend wrapping it around the inner roof of your lean-to, A-frame, or even your 4 season tent, allowing it to bounce your body heat and campfire heat back at you.
High Grade Sleeping Bag: This is perhaps the single most important item you could possibly have in your bug-out bag. More important than your knife, your compass, or even your gun. Without a sleep system rated for at least ten degrees below zero, your life after bug-out will be unmitigated hell. Even where light discipline is not an issue, keeping a fire going all night long is not fun, and destroys healthy sleep patterns. Where light discipline IS an issue, a winter bug-out is impossible without a solid sleeping bag. The primary trouble with sleep systems is the weight they tend to add to one’s pack. Spend the extra money. Get a higher end synthetic sleeping bag with lighter weight technology (some weigh only a few pounds), and a compression pack which will strap onto your BOB. Seriously folks, find the cash, and make it happen.
Plan Ahead
Bugging out without a destination (or several destinations) set up in advance is rubber-room crazy. During the warmer months this year, make it your mission to have your bug-out retreat locations squared away. Find multiple sites and take the extra time to set up each with care, while simultaneously maintaining camouflage and concealment techniques. Here are just a few suggestions that can help…
Set Up Shelter Before Hand: Make-shift shelters can do the job in a pinch, but setting up more permanent dwellings, from a lean-to or hut with all the fixens’, to a low profile cabin, is really the ideal. Survival sleep pits can be dug out while the ground is unfrozen and then covered for later use. At the very least, you can find and memorize the locations of the largest and best tree wells that can be used for expedient shelter.
Find A Water Source: Our training class chose a location that had a natural spring nearby, which was an excellent source of water. Find a stream, a spring, a well, a pond, anything, but find it well in advance of any threat of a bug-out. Set up your shelters nearby, but not too close, for better security. Make sure to bring a filtration system with you so that you can collect water on the way to your destination.
You Must Cache: The bug-out survivalist slogan should be “Cache Or Die!” Caching is truly that important, in winter even more so. Wild edibles are scarce during winter. And, snaring, trapping, and hunting are a gamble at best, at least in the first couple weeks as the prepper gets situated at his new retreat. Without several caches of food, tools, tinder, ammo, and even an extra sleeping bag, your bug-out may be short lived (and not in a good way). Imagine all the items that would ease your survival that are impossible to take with you on a bug out trek. How about a full sized ax? An extra .22 caliber rifle? Large quantities of ammo? A week’s worth of freeze dried foods? All of this and more could be waiting for you at caching sites surrounding your pre-chosen retreat if you make the extra effort now.
Build A Team: At Alt-Market, we push for people in the Liberty Movement to build communities first. The ultimate survival strategy is one that involves back-up economies, back-up trade skills, and a large number of participants working together to insulate their town, county, or state, from financial and social collapse. However, within these communities, there should be teams formed to deal with the possibility of the very worst such a disaster has to offer. Going it alone, especially during a bug-out, is a nightmare proposition.
Train A Guard Dog: During our excursions into the Montana wilderness, a great source of comfort was a large guard dog which a member of our team brought for protection. In Montana, wolves and bears are not a rarity; they are commonplace, and having the dog walking the perimeter of the camp allowed us to sleep without worry. This made me realize the incredible protection that these animals provide, even against would-be human intruders.
The common argument against guard dogs is that they can make noise and draw attention. But, with the right training, they will only make noise when you need them to make noise; to alert you to danger, or to ward off those who were hoping to use the element of surprise against you. Train your dog now for watch duty, and bring him with you if disaster rains down in your neighborhood. You’ll be glad you did…
There Is No Calamity, Only Lack Of Preparation
There is no such thing as a national or local catastrophe that cannot be survived as long as the intelligent prepper makes the right choices ahead of time. Cold weather training allowed those within our community here in the Montana Safe Haven to get a taste of the worst case scenario, make some mistakes, and learn from them quickly. The result is a stronger and more informed knowledge base to draw from, and a sense that the man next to you knows exactly what he is doing. I look at such training and preparation as a surefire investment. The advantages and dividends will undoubtedly outweigh the costs. For those who see the above suggestions as “paranoia”, all I can say is, they have missed the point.
Survivalists learn so that they do not have to fear. True preppers live in a state of tangible and sustainable calm. The ignorant live in a similar state as well, but only as long as the system they blindly believe in and embrace continues to give the appearance of functionality. Under the thin veneer of the skeptic and his happy-go-lucky lifestyle there exists the unconscious echo of dread and dead panic, ready to be unleashed at the first sign of abnormality. In crisis, they will fold and wimper, while the prepper goes on with his day as always…
You can contact Brandon Smith at: [email protected]
Alt-Market is an organization designed to help you find like-minded activists and preppers in your local area so that you can network and construct communities for mutual aid and defense. Join Alt-Market.com today and learn what it means to step away from the system and build something better.
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lol i think i am first..that never happened before…this is a good article and probably need to print it out a review on occasion…like before the seasons change.
Exposure is always a threat, summer or winter, as are wild animals or RABID animals. Even small rabid animals are very dangerous.
If you see a wild animal be sure to observe their behavior. If they are not afraid of you there is a serious reason for that lack of fear.
I noticed that Brandon didn’t include a shovel. Get a small folding shovel with case and place on your military utility belt. Its most comfortable for me in the small of the back. The capacity to dig could save your life.
Rather than a “camp knife” I would recommend a military K bar type knife that doubles as a bayonet. locate them at your local Peace Surplus store. They are indestructible. I strap it to my lower leg for easy access.
I also carry a hand ax and a small rock pick. Depending upon my “mission” and the distance from my 4×4 I might carry a larger prospectors pick or a spear/walking stick, or a AR. They have proven useful.
Quality leather work gloves from Home Depot are essential, or cold weather gloves from Wal Mart for less than $10; depending upon the climate.
Finally, I wear knee pads which can be obtained from Home Depot. They will save you more wear and tear than you might realize until you try them once. Again, less than $10.
BTW, the “spear” is hand made with a pointed pry bar for the tip. A useful tool to be sure.
DK- there is a really good post on solar stills at survival blog today!
Dk-good post. Knee pads sure save the knee’s, I use them when needed, they also save your clothing from getting worn out. Leather gloves ALWAYS. You know you can buy leather gloves with kevlar “cutting glove” built into them, which is extra hand protection from injury and they are warmer then regular leather gloves(when its colder out) those are the one’s I wear if I am doing non-delicate knife work,sawing wood, and chopping wood. As the old saying goes-“a penny earned is a penny saved” a injury avoided is an infection that can’t happen.
You said k-bar style of knife. Check out this link(once it clears spam) This guy makes very high quality, hand made, and made in the usa sheaths, for k-bar knives and others.
http://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com/ Very strong, and well crafted.
You people are delusional. Dead in a week under those conditions. It would be better to stay in place and take some of them with you. I would guess a helo would run you down in half an hour. I enjoy this ite but some on it are nuckin futs.
JH-Why are you posting that “delusional” comment under this discusion???? It should be easily seen that we are not talking about the enviroment of above article. DK and I are in the same general area of the country and he was talking about that. WHY the F^CK do you think he/we were talking about the winter in montana thing when he brought up a “SMALL ROCK PICK”?????????? I have worked in every enviroment (FOR YEARS) on the face of the planet, from the arctic down!!!! I respect winter/arctic conditions more then you know, and I face those conditions with a smile on my face!! Read my post farther down about the percentage I gave myself in the conditions laid out in this article. No “delusional” thinking here brother.
@jw- 1 more thing. Instead of criticizing advise from people, and their experiences and lessons in life you know NOTHING about, you might want to take some notes. You know DK lived out in the middle of the desert for a year??? He could wtite a 5,000 word comment on those experiences and lessons learned. Don’t kid yourself, the desert is just as unforgiving as winter/arctic conditions, the dangers are just different. You will end up DEAD in that enviroment(as up in montana) just as quick(if not quicker)in the desert, IF you do not follow the “rules of the enviroment” (so to speak) that is.
Sorry, I mis-spoke in my first comment. I have NOT worked all over the planet, but from the farthest north of the US, to the farthest south(in all tmes of the year) and the farthest west, to the fathest east(in all times of the year). So I have ALMOST been in all the enviroments this wonderful planet has to offer.
HEY john WAYNE- This is my last statement to you(on this subject) If you are observent you might notice I am the only person on this thread to describe winter as winter/arctic conditions. You know why??? BEEN THERE, DONE IT. Why don’t you leave a comment on some of your experiences outdoors and TRY to help people out instead of being part of the problem.
@DK- This guy kinda chapped my A$$ when he was critical of your statement. I disagree with you ALL the time about the dollar(I am a hard(to create) money guy. john w(ayne) is an A$$ clown!!!!!!!!!
I would recomend a vintage military entrenching tool for the serious prepper,camper ect. A few minutes with a grinding wheel and a file you can make one side of the shovel into a machete, great for wood,skinning an animal or doubles as a weapon.
This is great. We often think about prepping in ideal conditions, not the extremes.
Will be adding this one to the plan. Thanks Mac.
A couple years ago, based on the desire not to freeze to death if a “mini-ice age” were to make itself known, or, a brutal winter with no heat blew in, I purchased “BIG RED”.
http://www.basegear.com/marmot-cwm-eq-sleeping-bag-sale.html
A bit of overkill, since it hangs in a back bed room and has yet to be used, but hey, it’s comforting to know it’s there, just in case.
I’ve got two other, less potent sleeping bags and I recommend to all my friends, a good, warm, down sleeping bag; an essential part of any preppers arsenal used to buffer one against the harsh elements.
EA: Thanks for the link to Big Red. When I am in the bush I usually sleep in the back of my 4×4 with a camper shell.
While I have a good bag, blankets, and quilts, I have been thinking about getting a better one and was specifically thinking about something I could climb K2 with and be toasty in.
Big Red looks like it fills the bill.
The trouble with this bag, DK, which I have slept in a few times to test it out, is, sometimes it’s just too toasty (even around zero degrees), but I’m not griping. I read all the reviews on it and not one person got cold in it, under sub zero, frigid mountain conditions.
The way I look at a good sleeping bag is this. You’ve got your shelter. For most people that’s a roof over the head with possibly wood burning in the fireplace, or propane heat, or electric heat or oil heat. Take away the heat and you still have the roof over your head meaning you’ll still at least be dry. Take away the roof though, your primary shelter, and most back that up with a tent of sorts. Still a roof, but no insulation. A good sleeping bag provides that “insulation”. Take away the tent and maybe you have a tarp. Still need that insulation. That’s why I think part of the “essentials” mandatory in the provisions check list for all preppers is a good bag.
I don’t like being cold. I don’t have any body fat, or hardly any. I don’t want to have to “eat” more food just to keep warm. So, to keep my core temperature up, I got a -40 degree bag. Well worth the investment, imo. Not looking forward to the day when that system is my primary method of staying warm, and hope it doesn’t come, but if it were to come, I think I’m ready. It’s a mini-home, away from home.
PS Along with my 4 season expedition tent (another great essential for preppers to have) I’ve got a North Face Bivy sack that is totally water proof that I would slip this bag, or another bag, inside of in an emergency situation, if rain was an issue. All of these are expense, but over the course of 15 years I’ve been methodically purchasing these items when money permits. I guess I’m fortunate to have started back then.
EA: With the shovel it is easier to create a windbreak or bury hot rocks under the dirt to lay on, or both. Lots of good links for primitive and/or survival skills at:
http://shtfteotwawki.blogspot.com/
Scroll down to “Skill Sets” for those links.
I don’t know, a shovel is heavy, even a small one. It might be good for someone traipsing around in a 4×4, but for hoofing it, lighter is better. It all adds up.
Take a knife and cut some wood to use as a shovel, Or even a rock works as a shovel in a pinch.
Clark: Obviously you are a skinny, wimpy, punk. The typical “folding shovel” is called a “trenching tool” and is standard military fare weighing only a couple of pounds.
You have never seen one, used one, or carried one; that’s obvious. See what you missed by “opting out” of the Marine Corps?
You are a limp-wristed faggot! 🙂
Yeah, I didn’t think you’d be able to discuss anything as though you were an adult Dk.
Again, did your mother teach you to talk like that in public?
Most mothers deserve better, I guess yours didn’t?
A folding shovel is heavy in relation to most things in a B.O.B. and weight adds up – better to be light and nimble than over-weighted and drained of energy – because unlike the grunts in the military, most People don’t have a supply chain make up for the energy wasted carrying a heavy pack.
Clark: My mother is dead. I learned to talk like that in the Marine Corp! 🙂
You don’t put the shovel/trenching tool in your BOB. Put it on a military style web utility belt. Then put it in your BOB!
Go down to your local Army Navy store or peace Surplus store and take a look at the military style entrenching tool.
Handle it. See how much it weighs. If it is too heavy for you then I was right the first time. 🙂
I’ll try to be nicer to you next time, I promise.
Consider 2 sleeping bags, one inside the other if very cold is possible. even 2 lightweight bags make a very warm bag and if switched the inner one dries out. Not significantly more weight than one heavy bag and a lot more useable.
“Put it on a military style web utility belt. Then put it in your BOB”? Maybe you’re ok with an 80lb bulky BOB, but most People are not.
I don’t have a utility belt and I don’t see a need for one. My BOB is lightweight and streamlined so I can grab it and go, it’s good for a vacation or for SHTF.
For anyone else who might stumble along and read this, my BOB is styled more along the lines of what this guy has:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html
Blending this version with the cold weather BOB is worth having imho.
I have no use for a folding shovel that couldn’t be solved other ways. YMMV.
All I’m saying is, the weight adds up and so does the bulkiness, a folding shovel does not seem like it would be worth the added weight or the bulkiness. Unless of course all you’re doing is driving around in a 4×4.
Clark: If you don’t have a 4×4 to bug out with, where are you expecting to go? Grandma’s house?
Better get one. Or leave a quad at Grannie’s.
Hey Clark: I made a cursory check of your link and read a little bit about his BOB. His site is interesting, but I was not impressed. I will spend some more time at his site to evaluate it more thoroughly.
First, one “60 second BOB” apiece will not cut the mustard. (Which is why you need a 4×4 pickup. Get one.)
His most important item, BEFORE food and water was his prescription medicine and a couple of fresh snickers bars. LMAO. Really.
While it may be important for him to suppress his high blood pressure, or diabetes, this guy will NOT be a survivor when the real SHTF.
His BOB may get him to the closest FEMA camp, stadium, or school gymnasium after a hurricane or flood, but he will not survive SHTF.
He has no clue what is coming.
To be fair, there are many levels of SHTF. Check levels I-IV at SHTF Teotwawki. He is prepared for Level I or II. Prepare for the worse case scenario people.
There’s plenty of time, but keep prepping.
I love my dog, he is well trained and is very aware of whats going on, better hearing than I have for sure, and we have trained him in how to “wisper”..so as not to let an intruder know he is telling his master to lock and load.
What is really cool..He will not give him self away..but if you get in, he wont let you leave.
Sounds a lot like my husband 😉
My dog….sigh….she is a big 85 pound dork of a golden retriever. She’s not quite two years old and HAS gotten much more protective over the past 6 months, thank goodness, but really, who is scared of a golden retriever?
It’s a human response that takes a LOT of pratice it ignor. A 25 lbs beagle is quite a deterent……Manned and Ready!
They learn fast…..teach her to go. Grrrr lol
Burt – you laugh, but yes, we have been teaching her to growl on command.
“Bella, show me your war face!”
We had a rather massive golden – 130 pounds. NOT fat. He was so sweet (played with kittens and babies) that we always wondered: would he attack an intruder? We got our answer. Yes, indeed he would. Even a cuddly golden can look scary when their teeth are barred, and even an 85 pounder can do a lot of damage while you get to safety.
Don’t underestimate your golden Daisy. I had one for 15 years and yes he was very protective of not just me but immediate family. My mother would take him with her in the car when she had to travel thru bad areas and said he more than once deterred some undesirables. He once even helped the police catch a guy who had stabbed someone a few blocks from my house and made the mistake of trying to get away passing thru my yard. Unfortunately my current living arrangements don’t allow for me to have a dog or the time to train one. But I agree that in a survival situation a good dog is an asset.
i have two chinese sharpei…very lazy dogs except when they hear or see something they dont like in their home or their yard….and on occasion they even let me know about people i thought i knew well…amazing what you can learn if you listen to your dogs. and they are always right too. they get the utmost respect from the meter man, the gas man, and the mailman and the fed.express man, and even my brother in law.
I have two Great Pyrenees. “Bharlee” and “Kyra”. Mr. B is 165 pounds. And Ms. is 100 pounds. Mr. B is very intimidating to see and to hear, but he’s really a softy and loves to be scratched and rubbed. The Ms. though, she is the aggressor of the two, although she wouldn’t “bite” anyone; just the in your face demeanor. Maybe that’s why none of the neighbors visit us?
I am concerned about the thousands, maybe millions of pets who will be neglected as the times get harder to put food on the table. Fortunately, our dogs don’t really eat that much. We’ve been getting them used to the food we eat because “how long will dog food be available?”
European American wrote, “We’ve been getting them used to the food we eat”
Isn’t that really bad for a dog?
Unless of course all you eat are rare steaks?
I don’t know, I just always heard it was really bad to feed dogs People food.
Reminds me of this schematic of how-a-dogs-brain-works:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/how-a-dogs-brain-works.jpg
Dogs,… can you get this via UPS?:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/iditerodstarterkit.jpg
Homemade dogfood ratio:
Equal parts:
meat, rice, canned veggie
I feed my dogs this on the advice of my vet – my big dog was too skinny eating the commercial dog food – feeding her real food has helped her put on some much-needed weight.
@ Clark
What to feed one’s pets? Now that can really open up a can of worms.
I’ve had pets for many, many years, like many of you pet owners probably have had. One thing I’ve learned is “dry kibble” is probably not the best food for animals. The reasons backing this statement are backed by the massive number of negative side effects to animals over the last 20, 40, 75 years. However, with that being said, dry foods is one of the main foods I feed my dogs and cats. I do this because of convenience. It’s just plain easier. But I do supplement their diets, as Daisy suggested, with various organic grains and veggies, and “raw and cooked” meats, and other “supplements”. The kibble brand I presently feeding my pets is called “Taste of the Wild”. I do not want to feed them corn/corn by products because most corn in America has now become contaminated by GMO corn, and without getting into the nuts and bolts about that subject, I’ll just say it’s POISON.
Anyway, Taste of the Wild (tasteofthewildpetfood.com) seems to work nicely along with the above added foods. Back before “dry” or “Canned” dog food was available, what do you suppose people fed their pets? Table scraps I suspect along with freshly killed food from the field or farm. I would think pets back then might have been somewhat healthier. i know the ingredients in most dry and canned food found in the grocery stores does more damage to the system than good, in the long run. When a dry kibble is consumed it dehydrates the physiology and the results over time are detrimental to the well being of the animal; a veritable kaleidoscope of dis-eases begin to manifest. Anyway, this is a topic that can get quite complex so I’ll just say, Food is your, and your pets, best medicine. Choose it wisely.
Interesting topic. I’m sitting here today dogsitting my Golden, Dune. He had surgery yesterday and someone has to hang with him so he doesn’t pull a small tube out and/or get too active. We feed him dry also but he’s a Golden so state law says we have to feed him what we eat too. He pretty much follows what clark posted above. He seems to like veggies and fruits the most. In the summer he likes to go in the berry patch and pick his own. I have oatmeal every morning and he knows that’s a given. He weighs 80 pounds. His bark is greater than his bite, unless you have a large blackberry as a face. He’s a good boy though…
Clark: Obviously you don’t have pets since you don’t know what to feed them; except maybe a turtle, goldfish, or parrot that chirps:
“Lew Rockwell, Lew Rockwell!” 🙂
Gosh, Durango, are you deranged? Or just an excitable sociopath?
There’s nothing obvious about my question. I’m sure a lot of others want to know too. Like I wrote, “I just always heard it was really bad to feed dogs People food.” I’ve heard this from many many pet owners over the years.
European American’s response was great, you could learn from it? Not likely though.
VRF- i have to pipe in:
My darling,’Tommy The Cat'(Primus-take it away Kevin)
thinks he is a dang dawg
That fella would give me
at the very least 5 seconds…
At any rate, He has been known
to follow me for at least 2 miles…
Defanitely a Bug Out bud 🙂
And he catches frogs,worms,……
Now that we all have read an article. Lets DO. If your in an area that still has winterish conditions(up in the mountains exct.) Take a long weekend and go “camping” and DO these things yourselves. I will be doing that next weekend.
I am not a fan of axes, it raises the chance of injury 10 fold over a saw, and they are heavy. Wyoming saw2(with extra parts) all the way for me baby. With a wyoming saw1 blade, you can shorten it if you have to.
To go with your sleeping bag I would also suggest a silk liner to keep the inside of your bag clean, and it adds a little to the raiting. A “breathable” bivy bag would help keep you warmer, but as we all know it adds to the condensation problem listed above.
Very good article. Where is a good place to buy a “biomass stove”? Are some types better than others?
KY Mom
I swear by Ghilly Kettles having grown up with them. http://www.kellykettleusa.com/kelly-kettle-kits.html
No parts to go wrong and reliable in the worst rain storm. The design is centuries old and Irish and Cornish fishermen used to rely on them. I think thy have some popularity in Newfoundland. Don’t let em boil dry and you’ll be able to hand your own model onto your Grand Kids.
They use minimal fuel (twigs, leaves, trash) and the fire is kept nicely contained in the worst storm conditions. Water is boiled in undr 5 mins.
Simple, yet effective and I won’t give mine up for anything.
Lonelonmum,
Thank you for the link! Is your kettle aluminum or stainless steel?
KY Mom
Mine is aluminium.
I got it over a decade ago, long before things were “serious’ prepping wise for the annual recreational beach party camp out with my friends. However I’ve never cooked in aluminium at home because of the dementia link & am camping more often now my boy is growing. I’ll keep it as a spare to cache on the way to my bug out.
I intend to “upgrade’ to a stainless steel one this summer. If I were buying from scratch for he first time – I’d deffo go for the stainless steel from the off.
Cool. We call them Bengazi’s. Thats what my Grand Uncle called them. Named after Bengazi in North Africa where he fought in WW2. They boiled up there water for tea in the desert using these. When I joined the military, they were still around but they are called ‘chuffers’ these days. They still get used in Afghanistan by the lads on vehicle patrol. Very fast to use, minimum amount of fuel and you can use anything, from a small dish of diesel, wood, leaves, old rags or cardboard.
These ones your link shows are very fancy and shiny looking. I’ll stick to the old copper one I have. Stainless ones heat slower than copper.
If you have a copper one – hang on to it!
That’s a seriously NICE bit of kit (goes away to drool and dream)
A wood stove can be made from an ammo can. Crude but effective.
My dog is a slobbering, butt ugly nine stone mastiff x st Bernard pup, just a year old. She regards our home and garden as her patch and has no tolerance whatever of anyone getting too close to fences etc. on walks she is friendly but when people see her staining to get at them and her huge teeth they back off, I let everyone think she will rip their throat out if they come too close, in reality she would knock them flat and then roll around waiting for them to play with her. At the house it’s different ..totally hair standing on end vile if anyone even sets foot on the drive. A recent spate of break ins saw my home missed out….she works for me even without the discerpline she probably should have.
I haven’t had to set fire to a would be burglar since I got her lol
Take care
“I haven’t had to set fire to a would be burglar”
Now that’s funny!!
But true,wasp spray and a lighter…well we’re not allowed guns, what’s a woman to do?
how about a good knife?
learn encrima and have a couple good sized sticks around…
LOL I knew about hairspray and a lighter but never knew about wasp spray ,good one cuz a longer shot of spray. WOW Burt that was really good!!!
Wasp spray or hair spray plus a source of fire makes an excellent shooting flame. Learn from disarmed peasant folk the world around who found ways to turn common objects into weapons.
That’s an old James Bond trick. Burt, no wonder!
Reminds me of a St. Bernard I had as a kid
I must be tired… I spelled my name wrong lol.
Two winters ago our heating packed up….two weeks of 15 below freezing temperatures , not much less indoors…it was miserable. It was also one of the things that got me thinking about prepping. I have no bug out location so that gave me good practice for the environment I will be in.
I still have so much to learn so keep it coming. Do you realise, you people are responsible for giving me and my child the knowledge and confidence that could make the difference between living and dying when things turn bad. The articles are good, the responses are better, so many people from all walks of life, there is always something that gets put into my knowledge base. There are things I have learned that I had never even considered let alone planned for.
Surviving in a suburb of the second largest city in the UK will be tough, but without things I ave learnt on here it would have been bloody impossible.
I have no idea who you are, where you are from, or what you situation is but that doesn’t matter.
Thank you all so much
Carol x
Burt the Brit,
Thank you for the suggestions and perspective you have contributed. I believe we are all trying to prepare our families and homes for difficult times ahead.
Keep on praying & prepping.
KY Mom
I like you, wish we could meet, but different continents and all you know.
North West Coast of the USA here.
I am an older woman prepareing for a much larger family and grandchildren for emergencies and they are not as dedicated as myself.
Hopefully their eyes will more fully open soon.
For emergency heat in your situation
look up the You Tube videos for buddy burners, they are homemade sternos out of cardboard, cans and wax.
They can be used in Fondue pots although the flames can get 6 inches high.
Also look at unused paint cans stuffed with toilet paper rolls for wicks and filled with rubbing alcohol for another emergency heater. Also on You Tube.
And lastly check out olive oil lanterns. An oz of olive oil can burn for eight hours with a proper tight wick.
Heat and light.
The nice thing about olive oil is that you can eat it and if it goes rancid it is supposed to burn even better!
They burn in canning jars, give off a lot of light and do not cause fires if spilled.
There is a book called ‘I Didn’t Know Olive Oil Could Burn’
It is a little paper phamplet really.
LehMans catalog that supplies the Amish sells it for about $7 no shipping if you ask them.
Don’t spend the $20 Amazon wants for it!
One more thing…
Even though one does not want carbon monoxide poisoning by burning indoors, (you can choose one room, even a bathroom, with a window a little bit open) and use a stove like the one previosly mentioned, (or a rocket stove, I bought one from Stove Tec,)boil your beans and rice for 5-10 minutes and then place them in a thermal cooker. They will continue to cook, (and no tell tale smells to others…)
There are videos for thermal cookers on You Tube also. You can make one out of a bushel or laundry basket, blankets and newspapers!
I too have had to get creative as we can have mighty wind storms or ice storms and there are a lot of trees to take down power lines. And we do not have a chimney.
Originally I learned how to make a bucket stove and thermal cooker by reading the old US GOV manuals to prepare and protect yourself from nuclear war.
There is a ton of good info there.
Check it out, and look at the links on the left.
http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/
Happy research!
I’m a believer in kerosene heaters. I like burning kerosene better than burning wood because it doesn’t give off smoke. If you have a fireplace burning wood you’ll alert people for miles that you have heat and possibly food too. I can leave the flue from the fireplace open for ventilation. You can get kerosene for approximately the price of gasoline if you have a tank to store it in. Otherwise it’s about $40 for a 5 gallon can.
I like those heaters too, Barn Cat, however; they rate just about zero with regard to portability,… stuffing it in a pack-wise.
A mini-kerosene heater might be ok to leave in a cache?
I wonder how small they get?
Also, you pay about 10 bucks a can too much. I did too until I found someone selling it from a large tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvxcZeQyNk&feature=related For you cat!
I like you too lol
Take care
What pure BS. I lived 7 years up in the Flathead; 6 miles from BC and 2 miles in from the North Fork of the Flathead River. If you bug out there in the winter within two weeks you’ll be heading home or dead. It takes skills and savvy that take years to develop to survive there. No hot shot survival course is going to turn you into a mountain man in a few days. The natural environment is the least of your challenges. There are people living up there in that 50 miles of road and they don’t like or trust strangers. This will surprise you city dudes but believe me they all know each other. You can claim you know someone from 20 miles away and they’ll know them for sure. This is why all the escaped cons from california who think they’ll run up there and get “lost” because it’s so sparsely populated end up getting caught. Remember the folks that live there moved there to get away from people like you; they aren’t going to want anything to do with you.
The best bug out advise I can give you is head South to warmer climes. Where the growing season lets you grow more than potatoes. Where you don’t spend all summer cutting firewood to keep from freezing in the winter. Where you don’t have to wade through 20 feet of snow or endure an entire month when the temperature never goes above -40.
Spot on, Chris.
I was born in and have lived in Florida most of my life. I can tell you that this state’s population isn’t what it is because people like mosquitoes, hurricanes, or rude drivers. They come here for the warm weather, humidity notwithstanding.
On my 1/2 acre I can grow something to eat year round. I can be fishing in less than 5 minutes. I don’t need heat at all but for a few days a year at most, and that’s just for an hour or two in the morning. It’s easily survivable without that. The heat can be brutal at times, mostly because we have been spoiled with AC. You pace yourself, work when it’s cooler, and stay hydrated. It’s not rocket science.
We don’t have majestic mountain views and you can’t step
out your back door and shoot dinner. We don’t get to experience the color of fall leaves. We don’t get to watch snow melt into the beauty of spring. We can’t snow ski, ice skate, or sit by a warm fireplace.
We have our own things down here, and one of them is we can stay put when the SHTF.
Rick
I agree 100%….that’s why I moved to Florida. While those mighty mountain men are scraping vegetables out of a can at Christmas you and I are munching on fresh ears of corn and drinking fresh orange juice….having the good life even if TSHTF.
guys!florida!though it seems utopic, IT IS NOT A SHTF PARADISE! you guys have nuts of steel… you will be the first to go!
Yes, you can stay put if you can keep your head above water. Find some higher ground. Head for Georgia.
Head to Georgia, that seems like bad advise, that state has mega water problems.
yes dk…. which they wont… they will be swimming with noah and his ark!and sammy the shark!
not to mention all the undesirables there!
Clark: ALL states have water problems of one kind or another; even the Great Lake states. Water is not going to get better for any of them.
What I was alluding too and which you missed, is the fact that Florida is flat and low lying with little elevation.
Not withstanding hurricanes and flooding, much of Florida, as well as the Keys and islands of the Carribean, will be inundated by rising ocean levels as the icecaps melt: even without a Pole Shift.
Which may be the likely reason that billionaire Richard Branson is selling Nector Island.
The Pole Shift is in progress, even if progress is slow. Check the science.
Hey!! Let’s get off Florida’s back–the first state to demand drug testing for welfare recipients..
YOU, GO FLORIDA!!!
Nope, I didn’t miss anything, Dk. Georgia is on top of a flat rock, from what I can tell they have more water problems than most.
To say, “even the Great Lake states. Water is not going to get better for any of them.” seems kind of ridiculous.
If the reason you advise People to move from Florida to Georgia is due to the possibility of Florida becoming covered by water,… well, it might be a good idea to go much further away as there would be a heck of a lot more problems going on in Georgia then than just water shortages if that were to occur.
Not that I think any of that will occur.
Dk wrote, “Not withstanding hurricanes and flooding, much of Florida, … will be inundated by rising ocean levels as the icecaps melt: even without a Pole Shift.”
Ahh, so you’re an Al Goreian junk-science global warming fan then?
JayJay, from what I’ve read, drug testing of welfare recipients is a big waste of time and lots of money while not achieving much of anything good.
Well, unless you have stock in the drug testing companies or are some other fat cat crony making out like a bandit. It’s all a scam and a racket.
I find these comments interesting, and I’m sensing some odd and undue cynicism. I lived in Florida for 7 years and can say with some authority that it is NOT necessarily any better for survival than the Redoubt. The land is utterly flat, making it easy for wandering looters or just the hungry and lost to make their way across the state with ease. The warmth is nice, but again, allows for the unprepared hordes to wander about all year, and, Florida is a very populace state.
Growing all year around? It still can go below freezing during the winter. In fact, it does often, and kills entire crops during the worst of it. The only sure way to grow year around anywhere is to set up an indoor growing system, which can be done just as well in Montana as it can in Florida.
There are upsides and downsides to every region in terms of survival. The cold has its advantages just as the warmth does. Namely, it deters the weak willed from making any attempt to step foot in my backyard.
Having lived and trained in nearly every part of this country over my lifetime, my experience has shown me that the Redoubt is in fact one of the best possible places to be in the event of a collapse, especially if the worst occurs, and a bug out becomes necessary. Other places have their merits too, but there IS a reason why there are so many prominent survivalists and Liberty Movement people here.
Brandon: I will agree with you. The Redoubt would be much safer, but still dangerous for the ill prepared.
Florida is a catastrophe waiting to happen, just like Southern Cal.
I’ll trump your 7 year stay in Florida with my 57 year stay, Brandon. I
Below freezing? In some parts of the state yes. Rare in southern Florida and easy to protect your plants for those rare and short periods. I know, I’ve done it. I can and do grow year-round. You don’t in Montana.
I don’t prep for melting ice caps, tsunamis, polar shifts, Mayan calendar apocalypses, killer bees, or zombies. Or even “hordes” of looters. I prep for what you are witnessing in Greece and soon enough much of Europe. Social unrest and an economic collapse that will result in food shortages and an increase in property crimes. You know, realistic events, not Red Dawn or The Walking Dead.
Florida may not be the absolute best place to be when the SHTF but it’s where I live and it’s a good place to be to grow food all year and if you live where I do, easily supplement your diet with seafood. I have my own well…water has never been a problem.
This notion you have that everyone becomes a murdering looter when they are hungry is not borne out in the real world. When threats are real, history tells us that people ban together for a common defense. That’s why forts, town, and cities came to be.
I don’t care if people run to the mountains for survival. The more the better. Less for us flatlanders to have to feed.
Good luck and stay warm.
Rick wrote, “This notion you have that everyone becomes a murdering looter when they are hungry is not borne out in the real world.”
I’m not so certain of that, got any facts to back that up?
Here’s a description of yellow fever in Memphis that seems highly likely to be repeated, I’m not so sure I’d want to be in a place like Southern Florida under similar conditions:
The Yellow Fever Economy
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1014.html
Southern Florida kind of reminds me of a bottleneck with everyone tightly packed in and relying on just-in-time-delivery systems. Bottlenecks are notorious as problem areas, YMMV?
Rick wrote, “you can’t step out your back door and shoot dinner.”
That seems like a pretty big negative.
I think Chris missed a point of the article, a few of them. It didn’t seem to me they were advocating that a survival course is going to turn you into a mountain man in a few days.
In the Northland, once SHTF, those who rely on the system will be thinned out quick, Winter prevents them from blossoming, flourishing, and lingering. Quite unlike places such as Florida. So the Northland has its benefits.
Many places in states like Florida seem downright un-defensible, not to mention (as far as I know) you cannot dig a hole and make a refrigerator out of it.
Pluses and minuses to both areas. YMMV.
I’m kind of leery of anyone who generalizes People with blanket statements such as, “Remember the folks that live there moved there to get away from people like you; they aren’t going to want anything to do with you.”
The last part could be true of anyone, anywhere.
Clark, I step out my back door and fish for dinner. I don’t see a downside to that. Certainly, I’m lucky as to WHERE I live in Florida, no doubt.
I’m not sure what you want to defend that’s not defensible in Florida. What exactly are you prepping for?
I’m not advocating people move to Florida. We natives don’t advocate that for any reason. I just agreed with Chris that there are better places to survive than in snow covered mountains.
Rick wrote, “I step out my back door and fish for dinner. I don’t see a downside to that.”
Uh, there’s millions of People all around you who do not exactly have that option (or know what to do) and there are very few natural barriers to stop them, delay them or dissuade them from coming to your front door, year-round, constantly.
There is very little in the way of manufacturing providing necessities to the locals, or to sell to the rest of the world, as a result too many People cannot make do. It seems most every job there is dependent on the service economy which relys on the good-times flowing from the Fed, until it doesn’t. I’d call all that a huge downside.
Imagine what would happen if millions of People in your area could no longer afford to have “stuff” trucked in due to 22% inflation or something as simple as a protracted truckers strike? Look at the UK and see how messed up things are, and it’s not even a big screw up yet.
Rick asked, “What exactly are you prepping for?”
The unexpected and the anticipated. An example is in the yellow fever link I posted above.
I guess I just disagree that there are better places to survive than in snow covered mountains.
I hope we never have to find out who is right.
Clark: Suggest you do more reading and less posting. While there is an abundance of water in the Great Lakes (maybe 20% of the fresh water in the world, as I remember).
The problem for locals there is water quality; from industrial and municipal pollution.
Water quality and availability will be one of top three problems people will face everywhere when the SHTF.
As for Georgia, yes I would recommend people in Florida to relocate to the inside of the east and west Cordillias and find some elevation. Northern Georgia has some elevation. Good prospecting too, so income is possible.
You may not believe that a Pole Shift is coming, but statistically it is way over due. Magnetic changes in the rock strata suggests every 200,000 years. It may not happen in our lifetime but I believe it will. The last shift was more than 735,000 years ago.
The entire Ring of Fire is on fire. Check the data and links at SHTF Earth Changes for more info.
You might also like to read the prophet Isaiah who speaks of the earth “wobbling to and fro like a drunkard”.
If he is not describing a Pole Shift, please tell me what he is describing. whatever he is describing does not bode well for the people living on the planet when it occurs.
Perhaps you could copy and paste a link to some of what you’ve read which suggests there is a huge water problem in the Great Lakes area?
From the People who I know – who live there – there just isn’t a huge water problem there.
Clark; I lived on Lake Michigan for the first 21 years of my life, have many friends there, and keep tabs on it regularly. Have you ever been to Gary or Hammond Indiana? Whiting, or East Chicago illinois?
Didn’t think so. 🙂
dont head too far south…the southern states have their own bunch of problems…like mosquitos, swamps, and a sultry humid warmth that makes you feel like you will never get dry again…there are times in the south where just the trickle of sweat going down your back all day and all night drives the strongest man crazy insane. aint nothing worse than going outside for a fresh breath of air and sucking in water instead.
Amen to that one carnyverell. I am on one of those hot humid climates BUT it is always 20 degress cooler in the shade. Mornings and evening are usuallu cool to do outside work if needed. A wood stove is needed in the winter if no heating system but I would rather be uncomfortable in the heat than freeze to death. Besides it is only bad the last weeks of july and aug that is the worst of it the rest of the year is pretty good besides hurricanes (which is the largest threat) there is flooding in certain areas when we have hurrucanes, and I heard that there was an ice storm here about 20 years ago that stopped the work here for like a week. But if you are ready for such an event you should be ok. Like any state there is always SOMETHING, but I would take my chances here. I have been southeast for 7 years (mid atlantic region) and I think I am in an OK spot. There is always better, always worse. We have a LOoooon growing season that is great, dirt is hard to manage here, along with bugs. There is always a positive and a negative you just need to have knowledge of where you are at. I am not a native here so I am learning that is all we can do IMO
@chris … speaks the truth on montana … only the hardcore dwell on the flathead … and its the two leg predators prowling the woods here (they prey upon each other for sport trinkets) who will be a greater threat than the grizz’s , mountain lions and wolves … if you come here … come with your game face on and be prepared to stare stand down a few alchi druggy LOCAL locals townie thugs!
they are a minority 12% pop… the rest of the folks here are good solid christians and other faiths!
stay on the west side of the lake for a more harmonious christian lifestyle… keep your property locked up… beware your landlord here. some of em’ like to rob their tenants here! if you rent or stay at a motel … lock up your property in your rental here , keep your cars locked alarms on , store valuables in your boot/ trunks!!!
property crime assault harassment and bullying in the schools is on the rise here… just a sign of the economic times!!! 16% unemployment rate in the flathead valley and rising!!! the police sheriff dept are a joke here… not enough money not enough personnel too many crimes to keep track of … you are your own Law here!!! In a SHTF Scenario here you will be forced to defend your property without law enforcement assistance from armed poachers!!!
arm up stock up prepare … you are your own rescuer!!!
~NinaO
THE IMF NWO.CFR ANTI-CHRIST wrote, “you are your own Law here!!! In a SHTF Scenario here you will be forced to defend your property without law enforcement assistance from armed poachers!!! … you are your own rescuer!!!”
Sounds pretty dang good to me.
“without law enforcement assistance” … PSFT! It seems like you don’t read Will Grigg’s blog much.
@clark – thanks for the edit.
correction: “you are your own Law here!!! In a SHTF Scenario here you will be forced to defend your property without law enforcement assistance AGAINST armed poachers!!! … you are your own rescuer!!!”
… forgive me for my regression.
~NinaO
@clark … thanks for the griggs suggestion.
EVERYONE THINKING OF FIGHTIN THE NWO… might wanna read this… FREEMEN PATRIOTS BEWARE… pro libertate WILL GRIGGS website.
The Hutaree Case: Next Time, They’ll Just Send In The Drones
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/
if these druggy/alchis dont stop their evil little stares im gonna skin em nina!all sounds very famliar to here!except we dont have mountain lions! just my two kitty cats here!dont let em out either or the fishers and ccoyotes ‘ll get em!
Who said anything about a “hot shot” survival course? Sounds like they have ongoing training. It’s usually the blowhards that feel the need to beat their chests in web forums and claim they got the survival “savvy” that end up dying in the woods. Guys like that are a dime a dozen…
I think this is a plan for very desperate conditions. There is a reason why there were never very many mountian men.
very desperate conditions are on the way, Jimmy Carter.
Also, isn’t the phrase ‘mountain man’ just another way of saying ‘white Indian’?
Do you suppose there were a number of Indians among the few mountain men?
Free Traders all, those Indians too. Which is why they are a dying race.
What? Are you defending central banking and merchantilism again Dk?
And what the heck that has to do with how native American Indians transported children, I’ll never know.
I don’t suppose you see the irony of your statement? There were many native American Indians while they could trade freely with whomever they pleased, but now that they are under the thumb of goberment and their trade is regulated they are not as numerous as before.
Do ya see a pattern here?
The Power Elite do so love you for your attempts to trash the voices of freedom and liberty.
Clark: What voices of “freedom and liberty” are you alluding too? Lew Rockwell? 🙂
Lew is the most dangerous man in America because he sells the FREE TRADE (managed trade) of the GB’s as if it were a FREEDOM rather than a corrupt system that is draining the wealth of the Middle Class in both Europe and America.
The data is in Clark, you just have missed it. The PTB are enriching themselves at OUR expense and have been doing so for the past thirty years.
In those 30 years, the top 6,000 wealthiest families have increased their wealth by over 100 million dollars each under the phony, crony capitalism that YOU call FREE TRADE.
I suggest you check where Lew gets his funding from, before you claim that I am the one working for the “Elite”. 🙂
You’ve beat your chest on this very blog publicly proclaiming you’re proud to be a merchantilist – that’s makes you in league with the Power Elite – knowingly or not.
You are certainly confused about the free trade issue. There’s no point discussing the issue with you as you mis-characterize the positions of others and refuse to see merchanitilism for what it is, stopping individuals from freely trading with whomever they wish.
… “When trade is thought of as only between countries, the fallacy that trade results in some countries benefitting (winners) at the expense of others (losers) is not far behind. …
The case for free trade is not based on fair trade, trade agreements, international trade theory, factors of production, absolute advantage, comparative advantage, or efficiency. These arguments miss the real issue. There is a far more philosophical defense of free trade that has been neglected: freedom. The moral case for free trade is based, not on how efficient or beneficial free trade is, but on freedom itself. Free trade simply means that every citizen of every country is free to trade with any citizen of any country.” …
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/vance5.html
Clark; If you are such a fan of Gary North, then you should know what he says about phony, crony capitalism.
Your link to Lew’s argument is a link about philosophy: which evidences my point. Lew preaches FREE TRADE as a philosophical FREEDOM.
The philosophy of FREE TRADE is not the reality of FREE TRADE, which is a corrupt system managed by the GB’s for the benefit of the Uber Rich.
The FREE TRADE of the GB’s is managed trade under NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO. It is not about FREEDOM. Its about profit, and who, in reality, gets it.
Check the source of Lew’s support and you will find that he is financed by the NWO.
@chris- Spot on brother. I am a city/country “dude”, no surprises here. I have spent alot(alot) of time up in the mountains in all seasons and weather, I have alot of skills and habits I have sharpened, with that being said I could probably list a 100 skills/habits that I have not even come close to profecting!!!!. I have put alot of thought into one particular question to myself(wherever/whenever I go) the last 5 years -“how would I do if I had to bug out to this location at this particular time of year, would I survive”?????? In the harsh winter conditions I have never given myself more then a 10-15%(tops, and thats being really REALLY generous). Winter conditions are the most harsh and the most unforgiving conditions on earth. I know of a real seasoned mountain man who tried to make it up in the mountains of utah all winter(4 months) once(I mean REALLY seasoned, he even made his own tee-pee and clothes out of tanned dear skins from hunts) he made it through to spring(barely, the snow drifts almost did him in on more then 1 occasion, and other events) I have a feeling the mountains will be filled with bodies if shtf, I will go up there(foraging) come spring for it will be like a sporting goods store, get me a nice M1A1!!!!!
Chris-
I know area also and had to laugh when I read what you wrote. 2 week survival for any of these people is being generous.
I won’t say more. I can tell you know the area well as well.
Some people are in for a BIG surprise thinking the “redoubt” will be paradise. 🙂
Every animal knows more than you do. – Nez Perce
The bears hibernate, many birds fly south, even the squirrels find a place to stay safe all winter. Only the animals that are able to survive the winter, stay, and many of them die from the elements as well as from predators, lack of food and other hardships. If an animal is compromised in any way, it will probably not live long in the winter climate. Mother Nature allows for this and therefore life goes on. Humans on the other hand, are not adapted to living outside, unless they can find a way to stay warm, have proper nourishment and be safe from the elements and the wild life. I can not imagine an infant, a child, an elderly person, a handicapped person, or a pregnant woman living this way without great harm and possible death. This survival article is meant for only the fittest, the lone wolf, or in my opinion, the very delusional.
I will stand strong and brave even when my hands are shaking with fear. I will not give up what I have worked for and I will protect my piece of earth and the animals that God has loaned to me. If something is worth living for, then it must be worth dyeing for.
Ohcumgache wrote, “This survival article is meant for only the fittest, the lone wolf, or in my opinion, the very delusional.”
Did you miss the part where he wrote, “The bug-out strategy in general is for all intents and purposes a last ditch effort”
Do you know what ‘last ditch effort’ means?
I’m sure you know what give in, submit and obey means.
Decisions, decisions.
Clark,
I wrote, “I will stand strong and brave even when my hands are shaking with fear. I will not give up what I have worked for and I will protect my piece of earth and the animals that God has loaned to me. If something is worth living for, then it must be worth dyeing for.”
If you think that statement means giving in, then you are not reading it properly. Taking a stand is my choice, it is not giving in or giving up, and certainly not submitting to anyone or anything. Scouring the countryside with my loved ones in tow, leaving my animals and the land that I so love, is not an option. I stand by what I said and would never compromise my values by running scared from what I have spent my life working for. Since when is taking a stand, submitting? Perhaps we should all take a stand and maybe then things will change for the better.
I will die on my property protecting what is mine, before I run like a coward. This is simply my opinion and I am entitled to it. I ask that you do not twist my words to meet your agenda.
Every animal knows more than you do. – Nez Perce
The word, ‘knows’ means, has more instinct.
When an animals den is destroyed or over run by predators, the animals ‘knows’ to G.T.F.O.O.D.
I doubt anyone would call that animal delusional for doing so.
Think about this, “If something is worth living for”
Standing your ground and dying, do you suppose if there were another option you owe your loved ones the opportunity to seek it out?
I simply wrote, “I’m sure you know what give in, submit and obey means.”
If something is worth living for, then it is worth living for and not just dying like you don’t have any other options, don’t you suppose?
Saying, “leaving my animals and the land that I so love, is not an option.” is a lot like saying you’re a slave to your stuff.
It’s not about “running scared” it’s about survival. Seems like you’re taking that option off the table and demeaning others who take what comes and pick the best option as it arrives.
Ohcumgache asks, “Since when is taking a stand, submitting?”
When you have other options and you don’t take them. When others want you to take a stand when doing so benefits them at your expense (at the expense of your loved ones) while there are other options. A.k.a. being played for a sucker.
Insert video of cop saying, “Go ahead, I know you want to punch me” while pushing unarmed Ohcumgache around.
See?
Also, it sure seems like a lot of People here are not prepared for a sudden fire or other destruction of their homestead, I mean, they will just sit there saying, “life is like a box of chocolates”?
Clark,
Stupid is as stupid does.-Forest Gump
Clark,
The land is sacred. These words are at the core of your being. The land is our mother, the rivers our blood. Take our land away and we die. That is, the Indian in us dies.” – Mary Brave Bird, Lakota
When I wrote,“leaving my animals and the land that I so love, is not an option.”, You claim that my statement is a lot like saying you’re a slave to your stuff.
I do not consider my land or my animals as just stuff. I fear you have a shallow heart and always want to be right. In this instance you are not right.
Still not getting the point, eh?
Here’s an example of a Person who came to understand a bit more:
What You Love Will Be Used Against You
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/snyder9.html
You may not consider your land or your animals as “just stuff”, but you still come across as a slave to them. It seems that you will stick with the land and the animals at the expense of your loved ones?
I guess I’m just not an indian then, take away my river and my land and it does not kill me, I will try yet again, elsewhere.
There’s a story in the Bible about a man who dug a well and the well was overtaken by the people. The man did not fight the people, he just moved along a dug another well.
I have a question for anyone and everyone who has suggestions …I have seen a million articles on how to bug out with babies and children ( I mean like 7 and up) how do you begin to bug out with a toddler? I mean your on foot in the woods and the kid can not walk for long( a stroller ain’t gonna work) What do you do. And no she can not be carried in like a back pack she is 3 but literaaly the size of a 5 year old. I mean even a 5 year old is gonna have a hard time with this. ANY ideas? This will be one of my largest hurdles to overcome I think. I was thinking a plastic disc sled to pull her on. Please help with any thoughts on keeping her quiet and able to travel on foot. Thanx Sorry a little off topic but I need help …Thanx again
My first concern is that you are not wondering aimlessly through the woods with your family and that you have secured through purchase or agreement somewhere to go. Plan at least three routes to your target location. For example, I can get to mine via the main roads, secondary roads, or by walking the rail trail most of the way.
If your route allows it, I suggest one of those little bicycle trailers that has rear facing seats for children. Maybe you can rig up a belt/harness hitch so your arms would remain free.
You may also consider a two-wheel push cart. I saw a custom made one on the first episode of Doomsday Bunkers that held his entire family and even floated. Because it was well-balanced he could easily push it. Maybe the Amish have something you could use.
ANY ideas??? I was thinking you and mrs could use a sheet or blanket sling style, each carrying one end with her resting inside. If both hands are free, like when mr and I carry a tarp piled with leaves, he takes both ends in front and pulls facing forward and I carry and lift the rear. Would a type of stretcher be to heavy?
Also, start to hike with her now, to experience walking in an off trail environment. Get some of those candy pacifiers for her to suck on to keep her quiet while she’s walking.
@justincase … get yourself two strong light straight stair rails of proper length, some 2×4’s short length for cross pieces, an axle, some fat hard rubber wheels at home depot and just make your own rolling two handle indian TRAVOIS… the american indians carried everything on it for miles when migrating and even rigged it for their work dogs to pull around… you can easily modify it with a seat for a child… to carry your ruck sack, BugOut Gear, game meat , fire wood and even use as a stretcher… or look into a GAME CART!
a properly built one with nuts bolts lock-tite and treated wood would save you wasted energy and wear tear on your back!
that my plan… just build a TRAIVOS!
~NinaO
In TONS of these situations, indeed, a travois is the way to go. If you can’t build one ahead of time and find yourself overburdened with something you’re trying to carry on your back, whether it’s your life possessions, a nice tender doe or pig you just harvested, or what-have-you, if you have some decent cordage on you, you can cut green saplings and make a dandy travois.
One rule I see NOT being used is, never carry on your back what you can tow.
You wannta see something slick, look up the original Chinese type wheelbarrow. Big honkin’ wheel in the middle. In the center. There’s an amazing article online about ’em. They use wheelbarrows like ours too, which are a sort of “job site’ wheelbarrow. But they have these big honkin’ wheel ones, single wheel let me reiterate, and they carry people, goods, etc, for miles ‘n’ miles.
Man those guys invented everything first. Thank You, Chinese, for the wonderful lo mein I just cooked up now with pork and green onions. Think I’ll have some haw flakes for dessert.
What a brilliant question….I have no idea what I’d do. The sled sounds a good idea but would it be robust enough for rough ground. What about one of those lightweight garden truckie things, like a wheelbarrow but with two wheels instead of one,
.
You need to put this question out lots of times until someone comes up with a solution for you, i will bet you re not the only one with this issue
Take care
Hello Burt,
I addressed a comment to you above after your heartfelt statement to the people here. There is a link for many ideas for limited situations.
Check out the section on food and water,
Take care.
Half kin
Thank you, I got that, things move fast when replying, sorry you missed it.
Again thank you
Take care
Hey Burt, that wagon maybe modified could work. I mean I am NOT planning on running throught the woods with my kids ( I do not like the woods, we have poison snakes an spiders bears and some kinda nasty cat of some sort, shoot I do not leave my deck in the darl LOL> But if it were life and death and I had to make a split second choise , and iit was the only choice I would opt for the woods. I am planning on buggin in this would be a lst choice but I am thinking I should plan for it justincase. I try to have all bases covered as best as I can. And I was surprised that not ONE site covered this topic, this age group is like the non spoken one. If I come up with anything I will keep ya posted.
You do that. I think as we move on we keep finding things we haven’t thought of. That’s why I find shtfplan so useful…..I hadn’t thought of most things apparently lol.
At the start, due to a bad winter and a couple of weeks without heating I stocked up on a few tins and a tiny fan heater…..then I found you guys. No the house is heaving with lots of this, loads of that and several of the other.
It’s unbelievable I thought I had things covered with a dozen spare cans of food and an electric heater…we really do live and learn, well I do anyway.
Good luck with your search .
Take care
I am bugging in, no place else to go. I know many advise against this but I do think there are some advantages.
I know every creak, nook and cranny of my home and gardens, and can concentrate on security in one place rather than worrying about 2 or more locations.
I can organise my preps so that rotation etc becomes simple, they are concentrated in one place allowing me access day and night.
I can experiment with what works in my location, what will grow on what windowsill, will vegetables be spotted in amongst the low shrubs and perennials down the sides of my drive.
I have no worries about travelling to a bug out location with my child….and dog. And no worries that when I get there someone will have beaten me to it.
No don’t get me wrong, I would far prefer to be holed up in a cabin in the woods, but even if I had that option I am not at all certain I would make it, as much from lack of knowledge than anything else. I am not at all certan that a duty girl in her fifties would be able to manage that situation, here at least it is part of me, I know how it ticks.
Take care
A small wagon, or handcart of some kind, or something like a bicycle trailer, maybe? Good luck.
justincase, the native Americans seemed to get around ok without a stroller. Start there?
It might be something a dog could be useful for?
They had dogs towing travois before they had horses – in fact at least some of ’em, their name for the horse was “holy dog”.
I think a thing like a rickshaw, using bicycle wheels, would be easy to make and use. 100lbs in one of those would be light compared to a 30lb kid on your back.
Of course this is cold-weather survival so think in terms of sleds etc.
Justincase:
There are some very good ideas about transporting the little one, so I won’t address that. But as for keeping her quiet:
1.) Make a game of it – come up with some type of “hush” game that you play when out in the woods – perhaps so you can see animals, etc.
2.) Practice – spend lots of time in the woods – make it a familiar environment that isn’t scary for her, day or night.
3.) When all else fails, medicate her. This may sound bad, but in a life or death situation, I’d rather give my kid some Benadryl to keep her quiet and asleep. Also remember that this bug out will be stressful and physically difficult – the more she sleeps through it the better off everyone will be. AGAIN: not recommending dosing the kiddo randomly – but if necessary it could be lifesaving! (Make sure that your child tolerates Benadryl – or whatever you intend to use – beforehand – it causes nausea in a very small percentage of kids.)
No offence, but this is insanity. When will you stop running, where is your destination, do you drug your kids if they make noise? This is not the real world, you are living vicariously in a movie that will have a very bad ending. Get together with like minded people, create a community, do not think you can run through the woods with benedryl and all will be well. What if something happens to you while you are living in the wild? Your kids will be at the mercy of the unknown and you will not be able to protect them.
Ohcumgache ~
I never suggested that running around the woods with a 3 year old was advisable. I simply responded to the question that was asked about keeping said 3 year old quiet and mollified while running around the woods.
Daisy- you forgot the most easy and most effective way to have a child be quiet. TELL them to, with the threat of a woopin if they don’t(they call that child abuse now). It worked for most of us growing up(after enough woopins!!)
Read about the “Trail of Tears”. Not everyone makes it.
The Trail of Tears was more about goberment force over People rather than attempting to be free of it. Not the same thing at all.
RED ALERT….www.zerohedge.com DOWN!
It’s back up now.
Not for me.
It’s working over here.
It’s working for me.
So as I’m reading this article and commenting I keep thinking about this other article and how the two might go together, see if you can see it too:
Cross-Border Martial Law: Stage 1
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1117.html
Hello Clark, Thank you for the link. This information WILL NOT be found in the MSM. However, it is the type of information all Americans need to be aware of. Yes, granted most of the adult population will say they am not interested, it can’t be as bad as we make it sound.
This is not on topic but I felt the urge to write today.
I am at a loss as to why people will not wake up…until it is to late of course. We can not wake up friends let alone family. What are we as in touch ‘preppers’ suppose to do with those we care about.
There are many posting regulars at Mac’s site. I wonder how many lurkers there are with similar thoughts as ours.
Someone once threw out a number of what they felt were serious preppers in America. As I recall it was a very small number. People routinely buy life, car, home insurance which they hope to never use. Crisis insurance forget it.
So whether it is a monetary, NWO, Agenda 21, political, martial law crisis we are wihout clout because of our very small numbers. What are we to do?? ANSWERS
MM: What are WE to do? Organize, communicate, volunteer, donate and vote! The ONLY thing that the NWO PTB fear, is loss of political power.
Check SHTF Patriots.
There are a number of links there for groups and organizations to whom you can add your name and support.
90 million gun owners can turn this country around without firing a single shot!
Imagine, if you will, a government run by Patriots? What would be the fate of the Globalists and Dual Citizens that have hijacked America?
“The penalty for Treason is death.”
If enough people would post that statement on every forum or comment section of every website they can, the web bots would pick it up and the PTB just might get the message.
As long as the PTB are not challenged they will continue on their TREASONOUS ways.
Engage.
Continue. Ensure your security is maintained. Maintain ethical and moral standards.
The opportunity to educate will present itself. At that time….
Clark: Not at all. Lew Rockwell preaches a philosophy of FREE TRADE to sell US FREE TRADE as a FREEDOM.
That is propaganda in support of the power elite and the corrupt system of international trade codified in NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO.
Check the source of his funding. He is funded by the power elite to spread this propaganda to US. The PTB are not giving me any money!
🙂
I believe that “free trade”, IS the ability of people to negotiate a transaction between themselves and IS a freedom; however, interstate and international commerce has rules and regulations that govern that commerce.
What WE have in international trade is a system created by the GB’s to enrich the Uber Rich at the expense of the American Middle Class: which is why the nation is broke and has been stripped of its manufacturing, jobs, and income.
This is crony capitalism. Gary North rails against crony capitalism. Where is your discernment?
clark…Glad to see someone else reads Gary North. Someone once asked on here who should run on Dr. Paul’s ticket as VP. I mentioned Gary North. Got a lot of junks for that. The man know his shit.
No doubt, The man does know his shit.
Bankers, tyrants and sociopaths all probably hate the guy.
We’re surrounded, JRS.
I like Gary North too. I haven’t read everything he has written but what I have read is spot on.
He does recognize that FREE TRADE of the GB’s (unlike Lew Rockwell)is phony, crony, capitalism.
durango kidd wrote, “I like Gary North too. I haven’t read everything he has written but what I have read is spot on.
He does recognize that FREE TRADE of the GB’s (unlike Lew Rockwell)is phony, crony, capitalism.”
I think that is one of the most messed up comments you’ve ever written. The two men see eye to eye on the issue of free trade.
You seem to be blinded by hate.
That is a good article, lots of things to consider. Will be reviewing this one.
I personally recodmend East Tennessee, Southwest Virginia, and Western North Carolina. It can get over 90 with high humidity here for weeks at a time in the summer but it is cooler than say Alabama. Our winters our mild compared to Montana but it can still get below 0 for several days. Its cold enough that fire ants are not a problem. We get over 40 plus inches a rain and a good growing climate. There are several lakes and rivers here also. Although the applachians are not the rockies they are still rugged and there are still plenty of places to get away here. Severe weather is usually not much of a problem except for the occassional wind storm. Also, Tennessee is actually very gun friendly despite what happened to that prepper on that show.
On a different note, I was looking at a kelly kettle. Has anyone used one of these? It looks like it could be more valuable than a bush buddy when it comes to boiling water since no pan is needed.
We are all where we are by chance or by choice.
We weigh hurricane threat against earthquake danger.
Freeze to death or die of heat stroke.
Rattlesnakes or alligators.
I think a lot of it is what we grew up with or know.
My concern is drinkable water. The Mississippi River is a sewer, not sure that the Missouri River is much better, (remember Fort Calhoun and the media black out and the no fly zone?) and I believe there are just entirely too many Nuclear power plants east of the Mississippi. They leak under normal operation, imagine a grid down situation.
Get you water filters and back ups and back ups for those.
Yea EastTenn, We are fortunate to live in the southern appalachians. I’m in northwestern NC and it is about as good as it gets, climate wise. For all you piedmont, city dwellers near the foothills; make an exit plan for the worst case scenario and hope you never have to use it, especially if you have a young child or children. God bless and have mercy if you have more than one young (under 10) child and have to “bug out”. One good stategy is to plan as though you may have to go on foot. Remember, this is a worst case scenario and one that involves going into remote areas to get away from a worst case scenario where the grid is down permanently. For two or more people, take an 8 or 10 foot aluminum ladder and make a quality axle with two heavy duty but light 14 to 21 inch wheels with solid rubber/nylon tires. Like bicycle wheels on some kids bikes. Must be able to handle about 300 to 400 lbs. Take wheelbarrow, wooden handles and attach to the other end. You now have a handy cart/stretcher etc. to get to the more remote areas. If you are traversing in an area that has big cats and bears, you have a handy way to get up in two trees and make a swing line that you can suspend your precious foods up at night to keep out of reach of big animals and other varmints, especially if you have fresh meats. This is not a SHTF,get out of Dodge quickly,throw together, set-up. It will work if it’s thought out and pre-planned for a worst case scenario for two or more people. If a single Mom or Dad had to do this; it would be tough, but they could literally “pull it off”. Little ones won’t walk for long without getting weak and whining. Strap the little boogers to the ladder near the back, at the wheels, on top of something soft and keep going. Make sure you have duct tape if they won’t shut up with the whining. LOL,just kidding! You never know what kind of situation you may get into when bugging out so even if you start out in a vehicle, you may end up on foot. I think a ladder/cart set-up like this would be on my vehicle from the very start if I had to “get the hell out” and had at least another person going along. Hey, if you make it with a car or truck, great; you can always use a ladder, and with the two wheels,an axel and wheelbarrow handles, you got the makings of an homemade wheelbarrow that is always useful.
U.S. NAVYS BIGGEST MASS MURDERER – SEN. JOHN MCCAIN is having a hissy fit and cryin like a spoiled zionist gestapo baby…
John McCain Is Furious That He Can’t Lock Up Americans Under The NDAA
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-wants-to-enforce-the-ndaa-2012-3#ixzz1qfrrpBB6
RECALL zionist traitor JOHN MCCAIN , CHARGE HIM FOR TRAITOROUS ACTS AGAINST AMERICA , THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION!!!
~NinaO
imho john mccain is acting lately like he might have alzheimers or some form of dementia..
Hahaha and he sucked ass as a pilot too. No one seems to remember his crash on a carrier, irresponsible flying, killed someone too I think.
McCain crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Something made the plane behind McCain fire a rocket, which hit McCain’s external center fuel tank, and caused a fire. McCain panicked, and dropped two bombs into the fire.
Surviving crewmen of the USS Forestal and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately ‘wet-started’ his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his plane.
‘Wet-starts’, done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.’Wet starting’ was a common practice among young ‘hot-dog’ pilots.
In McCain’s case, the ‘wet-start”cooked off’ and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk’s fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it’s 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire.
When the carrier Oriskany came along side, and McCain was put in a chopper and whisked away. McCain was the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred .I have a hunch McCain left for his own safety, because the crew wanted blood.
Now thats the straight.
Too bad we can’t get a message to John Titor to time travel back to the 1960s, become a navy pilot on board the Forrestal and do a Terminator on McCain to save 134 good men and avert history to land us where we are today!!
john mccain…. followed closely by lindsey “war piggy” graham are the most despicable members by far in my opinion. these two are the worst of a very bad lot. as nina has said.. they are zionist, traitorous, treasonous, gestapo WAR PIGS.they along with jon corzine, andrew b adler, and really barack obama should probaly all be in prison. there are many more who should be hauled out on the rug and exposed. THE ENTIRE SENATE , CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT MUST RESIGN NOW. AND ALL THE HOUSES AND PARLAMENTS OF THE WESTERN COUTRIES AS WELL AS THEIR LEADERS MUST RESIGN NOW. UNFORTUNEATELY THE OPPOSITE OF THIS IS HAPPENING.therefore???
“Senator” John McCain Help Israel Coverup The Truth About USS Liberty
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1337758/pg1
The REAL John McCain – bully, traitor, liar, adulterer and warmongering criminal
McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 he “wet started” his fighter plane to scare the pilot behind him … the resulting BIG HUGE FLAME that shot out his planes exhaust “cooked off” the plane parked behind his fighter missiles… then a rocket fired from the intentionally wet started dragon breath flamed aircraft it cooked off and fired slammed into John McCain bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors… and killed the very pilot john mccain flamed intentionally… john mccain killed them intentionally. wet starts are illegal in the navy from the start for this very reason.
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6065
yes nina.. sounds like his motus operendi… id like to give this clown a “wet end” as in tied to a rock at the bottom of lake huron… if he likes , he can bring lindsey “war piggy” graham.
EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeder!!!
;0) What Up WILD MAN!!!
Remember Bro , One does not smoke the lovely stinky green purple bud . till it tis’ time !!! sniff sniff … nope not yet ready !!!
Legalize Hemp , Legalize cancer killing Marijuana!!!
PhRAck the IMF NWO CFR GLOBALIST BILDERBOYBUGGERS , the FREE AMERICAN MURDERING Israeli Zionist jew Nazi SS Mossod, the pillow biters CIA , the fairy FBI , the gestapo NSA … THE CIA PUPPET PREZ kenyan national born BARRY SOETORO and the BRIBED CORRUPT FEDERAL FASCIST FDA!!!
~NinaO
Combine Gary North’s article with this one and perhaps you can see how things might get a little out of hand shortly?:
Mark Baker … is determined to protect his livelihood at all costs and to take a stand against tyranny in Michigan. [As are many farmers I’m sure.]
…
The state of Michigan plans to bring guns to destroy local food, local farms
What’s clear from all this is that Michigan bureaucrats plan to bring guns and handcuffs to ranches all across Michigan, shooting their family livestock dead and ruining their farming operations. They then plan to arrest these ranchers as felons and separate them from their families, then charge them with felony crimes.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035372_Michigan_pigs_farm_freedom.html#ixzz1qg9FB2qb
i read that messy article regarding the farmers and their pigs…what the folks are after to kill are the “wild pigs”…and if you have lived anywhere near the ozarks and the arcadia valley of missouri you will know that the farmers are the first to get up a hunting party to get rid of the wild pigs…the wild pigs are dangerous, and do so much damage to farms, crops, and stock that it can literally put the farmland and the farmer out of business overnight.
carynverell, any breed of pig can become a “wild pig”
“what the folks are after to kill” is the livelihood of farmers (literally overnight) and due process, and private property rights.
And, if it was only about “wild pigs” then why are they going onto farms?
This is so much more than you make it out to be.
Re: When Pigs Fly!! Great letter:
Rodney Stokes:
As director of the DNR in Michigan, I am compelled to write to you regarding the legislation and intended assault on Michigan pig farmers. You realize of course that word of your intended actions have gone viral. The nation is revolted, angry and shocked at your position – one clearly that has not been well thought out and is ill conceived. Since the facts seem to have eluded you, let me proffer some enlightenment. First and foremost, most consumers (be they individuals or professionals who deal in quality foods) despise the general practice of cramming animals of any kind into disgusting cages with no room to move or breathe, where their whole existence is to be stuffed with food and readied for wholesale slaughter. Aside from the issue of inhumane treatment, it is dirty, unhealthy (for animals and those who consume the meat from their slaughter), and so off-putting as to impact eating habits of many.
Those of us who eat meat do so with the appreciation that animals are allowed to roam with some freedom, live in clean and healthy environments, and are kept healthy through their raising and slaughter process. Many also appreciate high end quality meats for their superior nutritional value and flavor.
In Michigan there are MANY farmers who raise top quality pigs, highly prized for their outstanding qualities that enhance resulting products. Because pigs, or chickens, or cows or any farm animal is allowed to roam their allocated space does not, repeat NOT, mean they are or will be feral. To make such an assumption reduces the ‘assumer’ to level of ass by way of serious flaws in thinking, and making assumptions based on NO fact. Such is the case here and now with pigs – some of them Russian some of other breeds, and all of them prized for their quality.
So I ask you Rodney, who are you to sit in judgment on any pig farmer, who are you to dictate the destruction of their herds and livelihoods? Who are you to leap to false and frankly STUPID conclusions, and why? Why indeed are you not going after those horrid pre-slaughter factories where pigs are crammed into filthy, confined environments for the sole purpose of being fattened for slaughter? Why? Could it be because their lobby has grabbed you by some delicate body part and twisted unmercifully? Or could it be a clarion call for condemnation by Muslims that comprise a significant percentage of population? Whatever the reason(s), no twisting, no ignorance of facts, no manipulation and threat, NONE OF IT gives you the right to take on these independent farmers who do NO wrong, who serve a specialty marketplace, whose livelihoods for them and their families are reliant on their farm production. But most of all Rodney, your actions defy the U.S. Constitution which still serves as the law of the land to which you are obliged to adhere. You have overstepped your responsibilities, your authority, common sense, all that is right, and oh yes, PERSONAL FREEDOM guaranteed to all, even pig farmers, by our Constitution.
Unless something has transpired in the last 24 hours that I somehow missed, we in this country are not yet a Communist state. Ergo, you are required to conduct yourself and your department in accordance with our Constitution, period. OH YES – I have been circulating news of this outrage, and a request for U.S.-wide donations and support of these pig farmers!
I suppose when we are declared a Communist nation, you will assume free reign to perpetrate your terror and abuse on Michigan citizens (and pig farmers) but buster, we are not there yet. So I suggest you REIN IN your penchant for abuse of power, take a deep breath, turn around in circles a few times, bend over and remove your head from that dark and dreary place where it has for too long resided, then get back to your desk and deal with the limits placed on you and your department. And LEAVE THE PIG FARMERS alone. If you don’t, I have a strong feeling that 1) THEY WILL RISE UP AGAINST YOU; and 2) AMERICANS ACROSS THIS NATION WILL BE SUPPORTING THEM IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. Do you really want to be left to the court of public opinion where you will automatically be labeled a moronic bureaucrat and ball-busting fool? Think about it.
Regards from a steamed and furious patriot
Karen Sweetland (note the quote below – so fitting of you and this situation)
When you see that in order to produce you
need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing;
when you see that money flows to those who deal, not in goods
but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft then by work,
and your laws no longer protect you against them,
but protect them against you…….
you may know that your society is doomed.”
Ayn Rand – Atlas Shrugged
I read up on that, and it’s feral pigs which apparently are BAD news.
I’d love it if we could get together around here and get rid of the starlings, Eurasian collared doves, and some of the other invasive species that no-doubt many bleeding heart types cry over. As someone who was the youngest member of the Audubon Society in my ‘hood as a kid, I know there are birds and animals, and then there are *invasive* birds and animals that can really screw things up. No one will come out and say it, but officially the Audubon Society would love it if every kid got a BB gun (and proper safety training of course) when they turned 10 and was shown what an “English sparrow” (african weaver finch) looked like.
Clark I just read the article about MI and the pigs. I do not get why the gov would want to so this excpet to impiment Soilent Green….yuck! I snuck into the living room as a kid to watch this movie had nightmares for YEARS…now it may be happening in real life.
This is all well and good for those who actually Know the wilderness and all its surroundings..
In a real life shtf scenario..there will likely be countless others more well equipped and well armed as it will be survival of the fittest..so any one appearing as fair game will likely be overcome,supplies confiscated, and death resulting.
I’ll take my chances in surroundings I’m very familiar with..thank you.
possee
I think you said it brother, keeping to the place where you’re most comfortable. Knowing your enviroment is half the battle, IMO.
I live on the westslope of the Rockies, with real cowboys and real mountain men, camping and hunting are just a way of life for most here. Most of my friends hunt for meat, have stocked freezers, can their own food, use woodburners, and grow gardens every year, and I’m the only prepper I know.
Living in the mountains we kind of figure many will show up when TSHF, few will stay. I personally think this is the best place in the world for me and my family to ride out any storm, but certainly not for everyone.
There are millions of sheep in colorado, many will come to you. Maybe even someone who reads this site everyday. They will be cold, starving and desperate. You will have thousands of unprepared delusionary souls seeking the “plentiful wildlife” of the rockies. They will storm your houses and cabins 20-30 at a time. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but expect company and prepare accordingly.
The millions of sheep will never get there. Either the electricity will be gone or we’ll have hyperinflation and gas will cost $100 a gallon. The roads will be choked with vehicles that break down or run out of gas. You’ll be safe there, I’m sure of it.
Hope they bring their hiking shoes, everything is uphill around here. BTW, we’re prepared to bug out too, we’re just not going far, we know where we are going, and frankly most people just can’t get there. And yes, you can live there quite comfortably all year long, if you’re prepared. If not it can certainly be a bitch.
Ever watch “True Grit” w/ John Wayne? Where they fimed that movie, is where we live. In some places it ain’t changed much in 100 years.
Sure they will cat. ok, say ALL cars are not workin and everyone just leaves their cars in the middle of the road(we are conditioned to pull over when out of gas or break down, and many will do just that). You got Motorcycles,scooters,bicycles, and walking pushing shopping carts. They will leave the denver metro area when the food runs out like a sea of locusts. The diseased golden horde army of millions will be as dangerous then as they are ignorant now.
EVERYONE everywhere should expect outsiders to arrive, and they will KNOW they are not welcome so they will rape and pillage the village. It has been going on since man first built a village. Lone houses out away from the castles walls have ALWAYS been at risk, since the dawn of man.
You had me going there. I guess the sheep all around me at the moment had me thinking, sheep-sheep.
DT-I just got back from sportsmans wherehouse, it looked like they were having an 80% off sale on guns. After I stopped drueling on the 50 cal, one of the guys told me they did 167 background checks and sold about 200 guns. 1 store, in 1 city, in 1 state on a friday. The sheep are getting guns.
They sold the 200 yesterday, passing that today!
@still a- Beutiful up there,I am a little jelous to tell you the truth. I was thinking you were closer to denver. My belief still stands except, they will come and storm houses and cabins 2-3 at a time. Alot of A$$HOLES in durango/cortez area now(as far as I could tell, being in that area for 6 months, correct me if I am wrong). Expect company, plan accordingly.
@kev … they are called the “GOLDEN HORDE!” and they bring death destruction and disease with them.
possee says, “I’ll take my chances in surroundings I’m very familiar with.”
Um, ok, so you’re house burned down and you had time to grab one bag as you rushed out. What’s in it?
Or,… consider what happened to the People in the yellow fever link I posted. What would you do then?
The idea is, what if you don’t have a choice about staying in the surroundings you’re very familiar with? What then? Are-You-Prepared?
Most seem to refuse to consider the possibilities, I thought that head-in-the-sand pose was frowned upon here?
clark
I live on Cape Cod..surrounded by ocean and only 2 -2 lane bridges to the mainland..
In a shtf scenario,,getting off this island would be logistically quite difficult with traffic gridlock.
We are a tourist destination and the traffic on weekends alone is backed up 10 miles or more to the 2 bridges.
Therefore, a quick relocate would be to several friends homes nearby with bobs intact..
No head in sand here!
one never knows the situation we each as individuals face.
possee
“one never knows the situation we each as individuals face.”
That’s true, however; did you click the link up above and read the true story about yellow fever? That situation could apply to Everybody.
And for you, instead of your house burning down as an example, a sinkhole swallowed the island and you had time to grab one bag as you rushed out. What’s in it?
As a girl raised in the south I will take my chances in Florida or Georgia. The heat and humidity is a killer but it is what we are used to. It is just as hard for us to move to the cold weather as it is for you to deal with our heat. As some of the responses have suggested, we could probably learn a lot from the Native American Indians. I have been trying to find out what they used to keep the mosquitoes and “no see’ums” away. The bugs are awful. Thanks to all of you for all your input.
Good girl Grits; stick with the environment you know. What these self centered macho man survivalists seem to forget is that women have different views of survival….especially if they are alone or alone with their cubs.
This “American Redoubt” nonsense is dangerous. If you go west of the Flathead valley into extreme western Montana and on into Idaho you’re in the heartland of all the paranoid crazies that see a conspiracy on the back of every corn flake box. When the sheriffs go up there they are afraid to leave their cars unattended because the kooks will shoot their cruisers up. There a few well known survivalists (most of whom are delusional or promoting their own $$ agenda) up there but for every one of them there are many paranoids awaiting an opportunity to indulge in a psychotic break and demonstrate their version of “Liberty” (that’s why they live there, no one else wants them around). No one needs to experience that kind of tragedy and certainly wouldn’t want to live relentlessly under that threat.
@ Chris— yeah the Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge kooks…
American Redoubt! Yeah, Ok. Like you said…the ones pushing it are in it for the cash…. as are LOTS of the popular “blogs”….
I know areas you are talking about as well as Oregon and Idaho/Montana and it is not for anyone who was not brought up there… It also has the highest suicide rates in THE COUNTRY.
GRITS: Eat lots and lots of garlic! 🙂
Even though you can’t grow much in colder climates because of the short growing season, cold does have some advantages. After the nightmare begins it is going to be extremely difficult to be able to run power for refrigeration. Even in areas that you have near to all year round growing you will have to keep many foods cool or cold to preserve them. For hundreds of years people have built ice houses in which they pile the winter’s ice and snow into a very highly insulated structure and keep what they need cold for the summer months. Has anyone out there built an ice house for when then is no power?
Snow and ice are also good insulation and mass between you and the outside elements. After a nuclear war and there is fallout everywhere, snow can protect someone if enough of it is piled on somewhere that the person is taking refuge. I can tell you when a house has snow on the roof and it is very cold out, you use less heat. Many people can protect something from freezing by packing snow around around it. Like you have some canned goods, you can put them into a cooler and then pack snow around the cooler, keep it from freezing if you are caught outdoors. Did a little experiment myself when it was 0 degrees F outside, as I took a thermometer probe and it registered 31.6 degrees F under about a foot of snow.
In every survial situation you can make the weather and surrounding world work to your benefit, even in terrible snow drifts.
@informed-awesome post. For some reason I thought of that piece of corn bread I ate(after ike) it was left out over night in a humid enviroment (a cold front came in, but it was still humid to me, not being from there) only after I took a BIG bite(then spit out), did I realize it allready whent rancid(I heard the look on my face was priceless). I didn’t even THINK about how quick food can go bad, it was only 9-12 hours old(lesson learned). My cook thought it went bad so quick because of an ingredient she used. When I first saw this thread, I was expecting alot(alot) of good winter advice to come out of it(got some,I was expecting more). You are right, food storage in that enviroment is a plus. Those people talking about staying in florida may get a real bad taste in their mouth(excuse the pun) when shtf happens, and when it comes to preserving food. A big challenge in cold enviroments is food and stuff freezing when you don’t want it to. Good advice brother.
Reading thru the comments here there does appear to be two different mindsets. While a survivalist (those who practice a sustainable lifestyle) is a prepper, a prepper is not necessarily a survivalist. Brandon’s article is more suited to a survivalist’s viewpoint relating to the cold weather and bugging out, but you can use a lot of the info to bug out in warmer areas too. I have to agree with some here that said that bugging out without a destination (at least in the north) is not a good idea.
To bug out without a destination (esp in the winter) is not a good idea. While a survivalist is a prepper, a prepper is not necessarily a survivalist.
JRS: Distinction noted. Well said.
Well said.
What people need to do on this site is define exactly what the “S” is in SHTF.
The “S” to me is what I’m already witnessing in Greece and Spain. Only it’s going to become a lot worse and it’s coming to our shores soon enough. But so far, at least, the crap economic conditions in Greece (or in the Arab world for that matter) has not unleashed hordes of crazy zombie-like murderers that are ravishing the cities with AK-47s. Yeah, Greeks are leaving Greece. They’re going to Germany for jobs!
I say, yes, prepare. But prepare for the worse that is most likely to happen. If the Earth’s poles switch tonight, enjoy the light show.
My first thought is even if you get to a remote area with a toddler, what are you going to use for food? At best, on foot, you will only have a few weeks of food. It seems to me your best bet is to find a friend in a rural area that won’t mind you just showing up and refine 2 or 3 different modes of transport to get you there. If you are bugging out as a last resort then you might want a cache somewhere that you can head for.Your primary transport should be a vehicle so you can move fast and have shelter from the elements. A good alternate would be a bike with a child seat. You could possibly keep a backup mode of transport in a storage unit several miles out of town that you could walk to but this is prone to pilferage and would cost money. I don’t have kids but if I did I would want a cheap used camper van or rv loaded and ready to go if I even thought i needed to get out and have 2 or 3 locations already checked out within a tank of gas to head for. I know this is not possible for many due to the cost but is something to keep in mind. You really need a plan to prevent from becoming a refugee with a child.
Not everyone will make it. If everything shuts down for 2 months or more, people relying on medicine will die off. I looked at causes of death in my family tree for the 1800’s. Lots of folks died of blood poisoning, infections and stuff that today would normally be minor events and injuries.
Another pleasant thought: There are currently 84 million Americans on some sort of prescription “Anxiety” drugs, i.e. Prozac, Zoloft, Abilify, etc,etc. Imagine all them folks without their meds!
The REdoubt states have the highest per capita SUICIDE RATE…. and that is NOW….wait till later.
I know the areas well, and living there in GOOD times would be hard for someone who has not grown up there.
Good luck AFTER shtf, if it does. The meth heads alone, without thinking about your “neighbors” will not be easy to deal with….
Good luck on the months at a time it can stay at -40.
Yup, its paradise. Go up there this summer and knock on some doors out in the woods to say hi…. ( not)
http://arcticpatriot.blogspot.com/ Some may want to drop by this guys blog from time to time.
There’s a movie called “Snow Walker” with Barry Pepper and GRITS comment reminded of it. In the movie, when Pepper and an Inuit girl crash in the wilderness of Alaska, he tells her to stay put, he’ll get help. But he’s woefully unprepared for the challenges of the climate and the girl, with all her knowledge, keeps them alive.
It would next to impossible to dig up a cache in the winter when the ground is hard. That’s assuming you can find it and it wasn’t already found by someone else.
I think it’s crazy to continue to live in an area that would be unsafe after it hits the fan. Bugging out with limited supplies when you don’t have a bug-out location filled with supplies just postpones the inevitable.
You can also forget leaving with a car or truck full of supplies after it hits the fan. The roads will be filled with stranded vehicles. Your best bet is to leave on a motorcycle.
Barn Cat wrote, “It would next to impossible to dig up a cache in the winter when the ground is hard.”
Depends on how it’s buried. Some ways are easier then others.
Also, it’s so easy to knock a rider off a bike. It happens frequently in places such as Argentina, or so I’ve read.
The Greatest Speech Ever Made – Charlie Chaplin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2WJd5bXFg&feature=related
One of the most important speeches in recorded history was given by a comedian by the name of Charlie Chaplin.
and you DARE to give mr. chaplain a THUMBS DOWN… you must be a FASCIST BANKER or a ZIONIST jew or a FED GOYIM TAX DEBT gestapo SOLDIER SLAVE to have done so… I pity you.
For you know not that which you do , nor who you serve the IMF NWO CFR GLOBALISTS BILDERBOYBUGGERS eugenicists mass murderers pedophiles and enslavers of BILLIONS of FREE CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN THE WORLD OVER!
~NinaO
V for Vendetta Speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY&feature=related
WHAT??? 5 THUMBS DOWN!!! ;0(
This movie V FOR VENDETTA ROCKED!!!
this is exactly what aMERIkA and eNGLAND has become!!!
sigh…
I tried to send a couple of comments and they have not been posted. The one last night was long, but the one today was shorter. I hope I did not do anything wrong, or my computer is for some reason not sending the comments for some reason. If there is anything wrong please tell me so I can try to correct it. Earlier today I tried to send something about the cold weather and ice houses like they built for hundreds of years for when the electricity is gone after some nightmare events occurs. Please tell me if I did anything wrong or for some reason the site is not geting my messages. Thanks.
Be informed wrote, “… ice houses like they built for hundreds of years for when the electricity is gone after some nightmare events occurs”
That seems like it would have been very interesting to read.
Ya, you might want to break long comments up into smaller ones. Too many URL’s can be bad too I think.
Better than me trying to explain it in words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_house_(building)
http://www.ehow.com/about_5470799_did-people-use-before-refrigerators.html
I say that one can take advantage of what Mother Nature throws at us. People take for granted that they will always have refrigeration because of always having electricity. The very first modern convenience to go out will probably be the electricity. The grid is extremely susceptible to failure for many reasons, especially that it is a prime target for any enemy.
Even in hot climates people can purchase or even make ice in limited amounts. With an underground storage area, like a root cellar type, someone can have an area that they can keep perishables refrigerated for awhile. Many survival foods come in large amounts and require either using it in a day or so or waste it. Using Styrofoam can help even more to keeping the cold in.
Many people think of surviving a harsh situation, but don’t see that there are some advantages that someone can use for other survival times later on, like snow and ice for the warmer or hotter times of the year to when we don’t have the electricity to run our refrigerators.
@informed- you are right, taking what mother nature throws at you with a smile and utilizing the situation and conditions to your advantage is a great survival mechanism(during shtf) and a good way to look at life in general. Using that mindset can help you in social, finacial, as well as enviromental situations.
Also check out clay pot in a clay pot for refridgeration.
It is used in the deserts of Africa and seems to work. all you need is two pots, one that fits in the other and sand and water and I think a towel or cloth to cover. Google it!
Links here take sooo long to post. A lot of info out there, and it looks good. Even Wikipedia has an article.
@clark- If you have a short attention span move on. If he would have just said- build an icebox, that post would have sucked and not “informed” anyone. It is hard enough to get a point across when speaking in front of someone, let alone trying to express thoughts to someone in text. Look how many words I used just with this statement. I am guilty of long posts myself, I know if people are interested in the subject matter, they will read it, if not they move on. Don’t take my first sentence in a bad way.
@informed- write whatever, and as much as you like. Your post was perfect length for the subject.
@ kevin. Thank you. When I can try to share some bit of information that could possibly help others it makes me feel less like an insignificant grain of sand on a beach. Almost all of us are new to this survival thing, and when others have ideas it all helps us to better prepare. Everyone’s new ideas are valauable and can be the difference between making it through something awful and not. The people that visit this site and other survival sites there is almost a kinship to because we seem to all think alike and not just accept what the society shovels down everyone else’s throat.
I was concerned about what I send in because I have had many guest posts of all sorts of subjects on another site and I did not want Mac Slavo to think that I was just sending in what I had already printed. You can read some of the articles I wrote if you like as they are on Yahoo I think. Anything I send in will be what I came up and was either not accepted or brand new ideas. I do not want to cause any problems for Mr. Slavo or this site at all. I have many other ideas and I hope to send them in the future. I will also try to keep to the subject matter discussed or at least the site itself as respect for everybody.
If at anytime there is any problem with me sending in anything I would most appreciate that Mac Slavo or the other administrators of SHTFplan please tell me so I can correct it. I personally understand that all of us are quite privileged to be able to express ourselves without being censored and this is a rarity in the way other sites all over the internet monitor and make it difficult to say anything meaningful. I don’t want to blow this opportunity to be able to get out as much information to others as possible. We all should be grateful for sites such as this that don’t bleep us out or trash our comments.
Hmm. A guard dog. I have a skittish shitzu. Any ideas?
Jason: LOL, a Yorkie would have been a better choice for a small dog. Use to have one. He had the heart of a Lion and would invariably bully the dobermans down the street if they made the mistake of wandering down our way.
He would chase them home with their tails between their legs 🙂
Anyone contemplating a large dog might consider a Ridgeback or two. These dogs have no fear either.
2 best dogs I’ve ever had; a rottwieler awhile back, big and ferocious looking, but was always a big goofy puppy. I currently have a black lab and have decided if ever have to get another dog, it will be a lab. So smart and so mellow, but he’s a big guy, goes about 85-90lbs. My rottwieler was big too, 110lbs. Any dog I guess can be a good dog, but you really should get them fixed, makes a big difference IMO.
I believe the defenders of nashville used rotts against the union invaders(I think I read it on a plague along the river close to downtown) during the war of northern agression. Them union boys got tore-up if memory serves me correct.
She could still be a very useful alarm if all is not well.
I love those little fur balls.
Take care
Songbird McCain
“graduated fifth from the bottom of his class” of almost 900 graduates
“Things are taking place in a favorable opinion. The United States at present seems to be standing alone. So much is its isolation”
How did a PRISONER OF WAR know this? Did they have a pool, a jacuzzi, and a tv for him?
Why the jewish mafia wants McCain
TRY, don’t ELECT, this Manchurian Candidate whose support comes from the CRIMINAL jew mafia
NOT a natural born citizen
RIGHTEOUSLY labled a TRAITOR!!
Son of the admiral who dishonored the USS Liberty!!
Almost sank the USS Forrestal
http://www.fathersmanifesto.net/mccain.htm
Question: Gold and Silver. What percentage of your savings are invested in each, especially silver. I’m looking for a consensus here. I’m not twisting your arm for an answer, just curious. Take care.
When the tide rolls out we will all find out who has been swimming naked, Charlie.
i have some silver but not enough…
Charles; It is all silver. Silver dollars, silver half dollars and a few silver eagles.
Interesting article, but it sounds more like an all expenses paid camping trip to someplace pretty!? That’s not really bugging out in the true sence, it’s more planned vacation. If your really bugging out, your moving fast, maybe a minute or two. Long enough to pick up your grab bag, which should have at the least, a warm jacket, jumper, a decent knife (forget that tang and tong or tempered blah blah) just make sure it’s sharp enough to cut and in a sheath so you don’t stab yourself. A map of the area your in, and where your going to bug to. Some spare cash is good. Food for on the move and a water bottle.
I’ve travelled the world and been in places and worked where I’ve had to move and go quick on occation. So long as you don’t panic, have a mental picture of where you’re heading to you’ll be fine. But it all comes down to where you are in the world, what your circumstances are and what your needs are in your environment should you bug out.
A bug out kit for me, minimum: boots, cotton clothing, beanie, wallet, cash, passport, smokes and a couple ciggy lighters. If I had a grab bag to go with me, I’d also have a jacket, warm jumper, small army light weight shelter (7×6 fly type with string attached, leave all them poles and pegs behind) Extra cigarette lighters in zip lock bags, 20 nut bars, big bag of sultanas, and a roll of poo paper. Para cord, and a couple spools of trip wire. That’s minimum. And even then, you’d be transferring what you could to the pockets on your clothing. So make a point of that two, wear clothing with plenty of pockets.
Off topic but here we go.
New legislation will allow government to monitor email, website visits, et all IN REAL TIME via GCHQ
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics
Wondered how long it would be
Take care
Burt the Brit, I’ve read others say it’s all a bit like putting a water detector in the ocean.
That said, there’s this:
“… However, my concern is more with the ability to “look back” at conversations and emails of the past that you, at the time, thought were harmless. …
Innocent people are probably now sitting in jail because of bad groups of coincidences.” …
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/03/how-nsa-will-use-your-emails-and-phone.html
Lmao…I am in moderation…odd as I am a regular lol
Take care
i guess we’re not regular enough, Burt the Brit? My links are always awaiting moderation.
http://www.slickguns.com/product/new-ruger-1022-takedown-rifle For those who have not seen this yet. Take down 10/22. This might end up being the most sold 22lr rifle once it gets widley distributed.
I put a link to uk website maybe that’s it lol
@burt- has the gas station panick situation improved over there?
Oh yes, the government has now decided we do to need to fill up our tanks…..my countrymen are mad I tell you, who the hell is daft enough to listen to them lol?
Interesting though, still with the ptb, we are to be censored in real time, email, calls, web sites the lot, I posted a link earlier but for some reason I am in moderation with that one, maybe it has started already lol
Take care
If the SHTF for what ever reason and everything closed down for an extended period, no matter where you are in the world, that’s the area where you will have to make do with what you’ve got. So, important note to self; know your area, environment, neighbors and climatic conditions. If the SHTF ….. I doubt you’ll be traipsing off hundreds of miles to a safe location. Plan on surviving in the area you know best. And that’s where you are right now. If there is prior notice and tens of thousands of people have time to pack up and drive to their ‘safe place’ that’s fine, if you can still get gas ect. But be weary, plenty of others will be in a state of panic.
If you have to ‘bug out’ because where you are is unsustainable, unsuitable or compromised by threatening elements, can you bug out of the general area? Can you do it on foot? What though and considerations can you make now to make a ‘bug out’ scenario for you, a realistic possibility?
After reading at this site for a long long time, I’ve come to realize, that most people put a lot of thought into food gathering and stocking it up prior to a development. Not many have said much about working within their environments learning about edible plants and roots that grow wild, or catching fish or trapping birds. I grew up in the middle of nowhere next to the ocean. So pretty much everyone lived on gathered shellfish and fish all year round. There’s also the indigenous plant life in the area that acted as the local garden 12 months of the year.
Do you know what you can and can’t eat in your area? Can you recognize what’s what in the plant world? Man!!! So much knowledge has been lost these last two generations. The forest, wherever you live is filled with food if you know where to look. medicine too!!!
Surviving, bugging out somewhere, having caches, tons of guns, building a prepper network and buying tons of fancy equipment. All fine and good.
I’d recommend people find books on forest foods, wild plants, and learning your area backwards. Sure, plenty of people will say “I know my area backwards” Do you have a map? Can you read it? And if you had to leave your car and travel overland, is it within your comfort zone?
@EVERYONE- There is chatter/rumors that berleskoni,some banking officials in the usa and italy, and others may be sitting in a jail cell with bubba soon. Something BIG that might surprise us ALL, may happen SOON!
http://silverdoctors.com/ SEE- ARE MASS ARRESTS OF BANKSTERS IMMINENT? INSIDER INTERVIEW!
I live on a farm in the back country so Dogs I know. Daisy your golden will be just fine. I have mixed breed cowdogs and they weigh in around 45 lbs. I watch the aggressiveness with which they use to move a 300-500 lb hog and have no worries about 2 legged coyotes. Here on the farm they eat a multitude of things that would surprise you. Mice, gophers, rabbits, birds, cowshit, pig food. horse hoof trimmings. crawdads, I always have a bowl of higher end lamb and rice sitting for them but for the most part they forage and scrounge there own.Another thing for the dog owners out there if your dog is shorthaired and itching a lot change to the lamb and rice feed as a lot of dogs are allergic to the fillers in commercial dogfeed particularly the rawhide and corn. I didn’t read all of it but in the main article I did not see a machete. Brushking makes a xmas tree shearing knife(machete) the steel is from Austria and is awesome for holding an edge.I reworked the tip from round to a little pointier. When I head for the woods for the day to pick Chantrelles scout for game check traps Etc. it is a constant companion. I can take down up to 1and 1/2 inch saplings in a swipe. A strong swioe and have used it countless times on up to 5-6 inch stuff cutting in the same pattern as an axe. There is a reason most of the primitive tribes in third world countries use the machete. It is versatile and deadly in a close encounter. People might look twice if you were carrying a broad sword but a machete in a campsite or the woods looks pretty benign until you are on the receiving end of it. And to finish off my machete resides in the house and is my last ditch home invasion tool.
I like the machete too, however; it doesn’t seem like it would be useful for busting open the ice on a lake or pond (I can’t say that I’ve tried to though) or for pounding in tent stakes. I suppose if it had a flat end it might be ok for pounding tent stakes?
It’s difficult to imagine concealing one on a Person.
It does look a bit like a sword, especially if it had a pointed tip:
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1639
Why even have tent stakes? I never use them, or poles. I camp in scub and bush these days. I tie down low between two trees and use a sharp stick to dig down and tie my corners to roots. If I want a bit of height in my dwelling, a couple of sticks to lift up the sides of my fly is all you need. Oh, I just use a small tarp …… You cant get out of a tent in a hurry if you have to, and then you have to go thru the doorway. With a small tarp or military ‘hooch’ you can just roll out and go.
Machete? Mans best friend in the bush. You can dig, pound, slash, cut, scrape with it. As good as a knife and an axe all rolled in to one.
Thanks for the great tips. Being prepared also makes it so you don’t have to wear yourself out in a panic in the dead of winter. Cold weather exposure and fatigue are a setup for hypothermia.
all preppers NATIONWIDE RADIATION WARNING:
1.) RADIATION FROM FUKUSHIMA NUCLEAR PLANTS disaster IN JAPAN is now actively in the ecosystem All along the American West Coast… even the Sea Weed is now Radiated! Meaning the complete ecosystem of the Pacific ocean in now poisoned with Radiation consider All SeaFood Pacific Ocean Foods , Fish , Shell Fish , Crabs poisoned with Radiation! If a animal eats any leafy vegetable all along the West Coast from domestic animals cows , pigs , goats , sheep to wild deer and other hunted animals consider it RADIATED POISONED!
ALL THE RAIN and SNOWFALL is RADIATED! DON’T DRINK IT! FILTER it FIRST!
2.) If you buy Milk dairy products , Leafy Vegetables , Wines , Tomatoes , etc etc from California or any other West Coast State consider the Foods Highly Radiated! You are Eating Radiation! Slowly your body will build up Radiation within itself! This is PERMANENT!!! CANCER IN DEVELOPING IN CHILDREN ALL ACROSS THE USSA IS NOW INCREASED BY 20% TO 60% depending upon where you/ they live and their diets!
Filter All Waters FROM THE TAP and natural sources! Also be Aware the Federal Government FDA is Allowing ALL harvested Radiated Foods to be still sold to YOU FOR CONSUMPTION! AND IT IS BEING SHIPPED INTERNATIONALLY for consumption!!!
3.) The State of IDAHO is under contract with the PENTAGON/ US ARMY to PHYSICALLY STORE 100’s of DEPLETED URANIUM Radiated POISONED military vehicles from the battle theaters in Iraq and Kuwait at a STATE OF IDAHO , FEDERAL GOV VEHICLE DEPOT in the small city of BOISE IDAHO!
The State of Idaho is intentionally FOR PROFIT POISONING it’s citizens with Depleted Uranium as well as the States of Wyoming and Montana with RADIATED RAINFALL and everything this Radiated Rain falls upon in those states and Idaho!!!
All this for $$$ PROFIT… of which none of you will see one penny of it!!!
*** EXTREMELY HIGH levels Fukushima Radiation and other POISON Radiation from KNOWN LEAKING nuclear SOURCES right here in Fascist AmeriKa is in your milk and other dairy products is turning up all across FDA FASCIST AmeriKa! From California’s 600 times above normal radiation to Kansas , Texas , Michigan and even the East Coast!
This is Permanent! The Radiation is here for the next 30,000 years Half-life!
Wash your food with soap , rinse in filtered water or suffer the consequences!!!
Beware where you harvest your food vegatables , local fish , game meat and where your SeaFood comes from!!!
EAT DRINK consume AT YOUR OWN PERIL!
*** also be aware GULF OF MEXICO seafood is all poisoned intentionally with COREXIT – like “LIQUID DRAINO” ILLEGAL BANNED oil disperser by the FEDERAL FASCIST EPA and Illuminati owned British Petroleum BP Oil company … this is permanent … as there is KNOWN still leaking oil wells and fractured oil fields leaking all over the sea floor in the gulf of mexico!
ONLY BUY SEAFOOD FROM NORTHERN ATLANTIC OCEAN! BUYER CONSUMER BEWARE!
~NinaO
Your typing sounds like screaming,
Yet sadly, I believe you, and I too have been trying to convince people around me since last April that this is true.
I’v taken so many supplements that were purchased in bulk pre-Fuku, to protect from, and eliminate the cessieum and strontium – Kelp, spiralina, chorella, etc that I developed high blood presurre from the sodium, go figure.
Pectin and bentonite can be used to detox, also washing your vegys in clay and or baking soda.
Baking soda also flushes depleted uranium from the kidneys but also takes beneficial minerals and has sodium in it too.
I have banged my head against the wall for a year trying to get my family on board to give up dairy and fish at least. I gave up mushrooms and killed the moss on my side walks- both radiation magnets.
However, there are many ecosystems and micro climates and even Chernobyl taught us that one field can be contaminated and one next door not so much.
I finally decided that I have to eat, so I pick and choose.
I live on the west coast but it is not only us. It is the entire northern hemisphere. Look at all the nuclear weapons plants disguised as generators that are the most polluting dangerous tool every conceived by man.
I have resigned myself to this ELE.
I am loving my family.
I will die before cancer develops in me.
But for the rest of you?
NO ONE wants to hear this or believe it is true. NO ONE.
After almost a year on a blog focussed on the MSM black out of this death cloud circling the planet I decided to come to these blogs.
At least I can pretend that I can find a way to survive.
And meet good folk, and end my years among those I love.
Fukushima is NOT good news, is still ongoing and is an open aerosol can spewing radioactive elements around the globe 24/7.
Even if you do not believe it, that does not make it any less true.
No amount of thumbs down on this comment or the one above will make it not true.
It is just so depressing and over whelming that I have decided to back burner it and live in the moment and prepare for the next.
this site:
enenews- dot- com.
factual, sad and informative.
Lets make these days the ones we want to remember.
@halfkin … apologies on the “loud” typing … just trying to get through to folks inner intelligence. i make no bones about being more than i am … an ex grunt dirt eater.
i’ll try harder in future to tone it down ;0) peace.
great post by the way … RESPECT!
~NinaO
That does sound bad, however; it’s just more radiation in a very long list, check out this animated video showing a time-lapse map of the 2053 nuclear explosions which have taken place since 1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U8CZAKSsNA
From what I’ve read the military detonated nukes in the atmosphere above the unitedstate in the 1950’s and those particles are so small and lightweight they are only just now reaching the ground.
Just another day in Bizzaro World, eh?
Also, you have a water filter that removes radiation?
Yes to the water filters, IMHO the most important of all preps!
@clark … is it just me or are you just a natural “penis head” , acting like a dog , following around behind every ones post , discrediting what they say, shoving your nose DEEP in their butt cracks… TAKE A BIG WHIFF @clark … then go away … your starting to annoy me.
by the way there is some brown stuff on your nose.
@all … normal over the counter home water filtration at home will remove most hot dust like particles … the “host” carrying the radiating in the water … some radiation will still come through … i suggest everyone changes out their home water filtrators as normally scheduled every three 3 months or per the required gallon filtered ration.
~NinaO
I mean how many people STILL think we are going o actually have a bug out situation cuz I don’t?
bug out to where? is my question..
Just where the hell is anyone safe nowadays..?
Given the 30,000 drones passed by congress capable of infra-red heat signature flying the skies of the united?
never mind all the satellites that can track you..
stay put!!
stay low..
possee
@Poussee , I gave you a Thumbs Up , just cause your a fellow MASS-HOLE! ;0) LOVED CAPE COD SUMMER VACATIONS AS A KID!!!
awesome dunes, peeking on topless hot chicks, and ole’ mum always making me swim in the deep water to get me over my fear of JAWS … then yelling “beware the under toooooooooow” my mum always screamed as i got pulled out to sea , as she ran along the shoreline … never failed every summer!
NOW THAT I’M OLDER I ALWAYS WONDER IF SHE HAD A LIFE INSURANCE POLICY OUT ON ME… hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
R.I.P. mummy … “sniff sniff”
forever yur’ lil’ child of lucifer!
~NinaO
No financial collapse anytime soon, but bad weather and earth changes can affect many millions at a time forcing a bug out scenario.
Hiya DK
Depends what you mean by economic crash. Maybe not on a global or even countrywide level but on an individual level it is already happening. People are suffering, not all people by any means, but from what we get shown over here regarding families living in cars in the US , it has begun.
Here it is those working on a middling to low wage who are suffering, those on benefits are assured a roof and can always get crisis money to help if things get really bad. The situation for the employed is getting worse by the day and it is happening quickly. I regard myself as very fortunate, just me and my child and I am working for an above average but not massive wage.
Child are costs are stupid high, including before and after school care, school meals go up again this week, and basics like bread and milk are on the rise, it is very difficult to keep up. How those with debt in any form manage I just don’t know.
I need my car for work…impossible without it, and last month for the first time I had to use some of my food preps as the choice was either fuel or food, this has never happened before, this of course is due to the outlandish cost of car fuel over here, someone worked out this week it is $10.52 per gallon, apart from rises due to oil going up another £0.20 is going on on August 1st.
I looked at changing my shifts…or asking to, so that public transport becomes an option., this will cut my travelling costs to £4.00 per day but will increase child are costs by 2 hours due to extra travelling time, not get out of work bang on time and those costs rise even more. £15.00 for the first fifteen minutes you are late and £5.00 for each ten minutes thereafter (if no arrangement is in place) with an arrangement just the cost of the extra hours…..16.00 a day, cheaper to use the car. School holidays cost more than 50% of my wage.
My economic collapse is here, slow and steady, but here none the less.
Take care
Burt
I hear you loud and clear…
There are many here who state they are fortunate..
no mortgage/have investments/possess precious metals/own land for bugout retreats etc..
Then there’s the majority of us who live week by week facing the ongoing inflation,deciding which bill to pay, and utilizing our preps as needed..and that’s the key right there..at least we prepped and use them as needed.
Imagine if we didn’t prep!??
I still manage to accumulate some basics every week for long term storage and survival..
Keep on posting Burt..at least you are sharing real time experience instead of conjectured scenarios..
Thank you
possee
Burt: I understand. I am not suggesting that many people will not suffer and suffer considerably. They did before when times were good and they do now.
The poor WE will always have with US.
There are several magnitudes of difference between financial collapse and an economic depression.
Many here have been screaming “collapse” for two years. WE had the collapse. Now WE are “recovering” or at least muddling through as best as WE are able. Some are faring better than others.
That is always the case.
@DK- BRICS just signed a treaty to drop, and challenge the dollars crown. With all the fraud, and printing dollars at all levels of the banking system here, and how many people do not approve of it in this country(and its helping us), just think how much the WORLD is sick and tired of it, and tired of being told what to do to the detriment of their countries and currencies not to mention the suffering of their people due to us exporting our inflation because of the dollars role as reserve currency. We are used to a very high standard of living, it WILL FEEL like an economic collapse to alot of people on this blog and around the usa.
kevin
add to that ..this..
BRICS nations to establish new bank..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o0zFREv8-as#!
possee
Kevin: I am aware of these events. Brazil doesn’t like it because their Reale has been cheap.
Really cheap for decades against other currencies, protecting their internal production and their exports. This has led to their current prosperity.
Now there is competition in the “race to the bottom” from the developed nations who have previously, generously transferred their wealth to Brazil at the expense of their citizens, and Brazil doesn’t like it.
South Africa wants to dominate and exploit the African continent without competition and as one of the most developed countries there is trying to flex some muscles in a bid for more political power. With the political power comes control, and with control, wealth.
Follow the money.
I don’t see any changes in the current world financial structure (US Dollar) until after Iran and Syria have experienced “regime change”.
One very important thing to think about, if you are already living in a remote area that has very cold weather; you are already in the best possible living situation, especially if you have plenty of wild game. The mass exodus from the cities, in a crisis/meltdown situation, will most definitely have people going for higher ground with forests and fresh water, and they will eventually get to your neck of the woods. The colder the climate the less likely you are to see any travelers coming to set up homesteads. I know where a cozy little cave for two is located just about 1/2 mile from the eastern crest of the continental divide in the Scapegoat Wilderness of Montana. Gotta run off the current resident(cougar,not the two legged type) and pack in supplies 25 miles from nearest town. No worries about gangs or water. Only problem, it’s 2615 miles from where I am living now. I just go back there in my mind from time to time. Hey, if anyone happens to wander on to my secret spot and find a spent 270 Weatherby Magnum casing, it’s mine. Dropped it there in 1989.
I grew up in western Montana. Hunting and camping in the winter. Fishing and camping in the summer. Instincts are very important. At the time I didn’t realize I had any. Unfortunately, I’m afraid I’ve lost many. But I do remember how we survived in a tent in all seasons. I now live in eastern Montana and it gets a lot colder over here, those usually less snow. We have a BO plan. It was good to read your article and rethink many of the difficulties. Thanks.
Info, I am in Spokane for a few days Walmart has a sale on long term storage #10 cans of powdered eggs. vegs, butter powder etc for the next week; prices are good.
Guess I’m fucked then because I have hogs cows chickens goats and horses as well as a garden. The eggs are still brown the milk is still creamy and the all the calves have only had one head.But I will keep watch and make sure that none of the hogs start glowing in the dark. Of far more concern to me in the last 3 weeks was the inability to get out of the driveway for a week because of all the trees that blew down in the storm. Some people can’t see the forest for the trees.
… something to dwell on before you call 911 , you might be calling Death to your door…
68 year old ex-marine shot to death by police in his own home after he accidentally triggered his medical alert service in his sleep
responding 5 police officers taunted him for being a u s marine and a crazy n****r then killed him…witnesses , family members and neighbors said…
http://refreshingnews99.blogspot.in/2012/04/68-year-old-ex-marine-shot-to-death-by.html
WELCOME TOO THE NEW WORLD ORDER ZIONIST TRAINED DHS POLICE GESTAPO!
“TO PUNISH AND ENSLAVE!”
Off topic but relates to Mac’s Mar 21 article on tracking. Does anyone get third party tracking cookies from here when they link to other blogs?
I live in the country(woods,water and game in all dirrections and have no plans of ever leaving, if I was pushed off for any reason, I would bug out in plain sight, just long enough to figure out how I got pushed out and how I was going to get my home back. People should never leave their homes, when they do, they’re refugees and become fair game for everyone.In your own back yard, you’ll know who everyone is and who is a threat to you and who may give you a hand, you’ll also know who is a stranger.
I agree with every statement you made except one, “you’ll know who everyone is and who is a threat to you….. Heck fire, survivor; I don’t even know what some of my own family members will or will not do in a situation of chaos. I trust “NO” one except my Heavenly Father and my Saviour,first; and secondly my dog and horses(their iffy sometimes but predictable),and thirdly my wifey( she too is iffy but predictable unless she doesn’t get her beauty sleep and menopause has kicked in again) in which case you could see anything from a kiss to a flying hatchet…. We live in a rural area about 10 miles from town, but there are people living within a mile from us,as the crow flies, that we couldn’t know anything about. I ain’t about to send out a news letter asking for comments and reviews from them. So for now, I’ll keep my distance and hope they do the same. Tread’s Policy.
Catching up on the comments and a quick summary: Don’t leave home without a plan/destination. If it’s a good day to die, I’d rather be at home than dying of hypothemia (or some other type of exposure to the elements).
@Kevin,
Can’t get the banker link to work. Went direct to site and it’s down??? Can you give a quick summary please.
@peterp- The story is at silver doctors.com. the story is named”insider- banker cabal arrests imminent”. you have to keep scrolling down till you find it. He is a doctor(by trade) who spent alot of time up in barrow alaska. Smart guy,I trust his insights, but the fucker won’t tell me if burrow is a $HIT hole or not!!!!! I have never been there, so I assume its a shit hole.
oh yeah, its back up now!
Living in a small town or in the country, you are best off by staying put, unless you can make it to a “better” surviving situation, such as relatives or friends that are more prepared and have better survival conditions and surroundings. However, trying to bug in for long term in a big city(half million or more) apartment situation without electricity will mean certain death. Best have a SHTF “bugout plan” in place. Just sayin’.