Cities – A Prepper’s Nightmare & Solutions

by | Apr 10, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 230 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The following article has been generously contributed by Jessica Hooley of the Salt n’ Prepper web site.

    Is it a coincidence that all of my nightmares occur in big cities? While it may be a personality glitch, I find that considering the dangers you face in the event of an emergency while living in a city, my nightmares may be justified. If you live in a city – buckle up. As a prepper you will have to work extra hard to make your emergency plan viable. And while I make no judgments on city dwellers, I must say – MOVE! For your own safety – MOVE! Move, move, move, move, move. Okay. I think I got it all out.

    Now I understand that not everyone can just pick up and move because some lady on the internet says so. So if you are in the situation where you must stay in the city here are a few things you MUST have in your emergency preparedness plan.

    Define Your Strategy

    One of the biggest problems with cities are the fact that they aren’t self-sustaining. They rely on outer communities to supply them with food, water and often times electricity. The second biggest issue with cities is the space. Most homes/apartments/condos don’t have the space needed to store supplies for 6 months to a year. And even if they did there is a severely high probability of civil unrest, leading to looting and robbery. In short – you need a plan. The three questions to ask yourself:

    1. How long will we stay
    2. How will we get out
    3. Where will we go

    How long will we stay – As I said before, in a city you must resign yourself to the fact that you will have to leave if the situation escalates to a point where you either have no supplies or your safety is in jeopardy. Decide with your family how long this period is going to be. After the power is out, the food is gone, and the shelves are empty in the grocery stores of all liquid – how much longer will you hold down the fort. Too short and you may have bugged out too soon. Too long and you risk the possibility of not being able to get out.

    How will we get out – Your exit strategy needs to be well planned out. Come up with a minimum of three routes out of the city. You’ve seen how a couple thousand people can shut down a road. Imagine the magnification of that situation when millions are out looking for food and water. You need to be able to navigate your way through the mess and be prepared to defend you and your family. I’ll go into further detail later.

    Where will we go – Once again, come up with a couple places as a destination if possible. Think of relatives out in the “boonies”. Anyone that you consider as being in a safe part of the world. If you don’t know anyone within a reasonable distance (you may run out of fuel) start thinking of areas that you could stay. Hotels. Camp spots. Some place to “ride it out”.

    Make Connections

    As we’ve pointed out before, the population of cities can quickly turn into one of your biggest challenges. So it’s up to you to change that. Build your community into your own personal defense. Help those around you prepare. Educate them about emergency preparedness. You don’t need to reveal all of your prepping secrets but by preparing others you are ensuring help in the event that looting reaches your neighborhood. If everyone has something to defend they are more likely to band together. By not including your neighbors you are making them a potential threat to you. And the last thing you’ll want is to have to pull a gun on your neighbor if they are trying to take your supplies out of desperation.

    Get the Gear

    Bug-Out Gear

    Although it may not seem like “gear” – a truck may likely be the most important bug-out necessity for someone in a big city. Reasons why:

    • Capable of hauling ALL of your bug-out supplies
    • You will need something capable of maneuvering around rubble, waste, people and stalled vehicles on the road.
    • Able to store extra fuel in the bed to get further away.

    Outside of an off road vehicle, you will also need the following items:

    1. 96 hour kits for each person in the family
    2. 7 days of water – 1 to 2 gallons of water per person per day
    3. A full gas tank and 40 extra gallons to haul

    Make sure in your plan to bug out, you have someone armed. When trying to leave the city there will be plenty of people outside waiting to stop you and take what you have. You must be prepared to face the realization that you may have to defend yourself with force.


    No matter where you live, water is the basis to sustaining life. If you are planning to stay in your house longer than a week (after water is unavailable) you need to make storing water a big priority. Get creative with your water storage. As you can find in my other posts, polycarbonate containers are great for water storage. If you are crammed on space, I highly recommend WaterBricks®. You can store upwards of 60 gallons underneath your queen size bed alone with them. No matter what you decide for a storage system – make the most out of it. You’ll want to store 1-2 gallons for each person in your family for every day you plan on staying in your home.

    Food Storage

    Food storage goes along the same lines as water. Make a food storage list to last your family the time you will be staying in your home. The key to your food storage is making it secret. In cities, food is likely to completely run out within 3 days. People will get really hungry really fast. And if someone remembers seeing that stack of food storage in your garage, or remembers you saying something about having 6 months in your basement – you’re their first stop. Don’t put yourself in the situation where you are more likely to have to defend your storage by shouting it from a mountain top. Once again, get creative and bury it in your yard if you must.


    In the event of an emergency, you will likely be facing a powerless situation. During the day you’ll just have to get used to being without certain luxuries like powered kitchen gadgets and television. But at night, no power can turn into a psychological battle. Especially for children. Have plenty of snap lights, flashlights and lanterns to keep it bright when the sun goes down so the little ones (and maybe even you) can relief during the night.

    TIP: In most cities, homes and other living spaces are close together. When using your evening lighting make sure to draw the shades. Test your emergency lighting during peacetime and see which places in the house you can use them without it being seen from the outside. Light will draw more than just bugs during a power outage. And the result could end up in self defense.


    Without electricity you may be in for some cold nights. Be prepared with some down blankets and 4 season sleeping bags. You can also get some indoor kerosene heaters. And if you are lucky enough to have a wood burning fireplace, put it use! Get stocked up on firewood and use it when necessary.



    The terrible truth is that most places in this country where self-defense is needed most, it’s unavailable to law abiding citizens. I’m talking about guns. Big cities, despite their soaring crimes rates, seem to find rationale in banning guns whenever possible. And while free speech is still available – I’m telling you to get your hands on a gun no matter what it takes. As long as you are an otherwise law abiding citizen and you don’t hear voices in your head telling you to kill people – you need the ability to defend your property and more importantly your family.

    Other fantastic weapons to have stored for self-defense include:

    • Pepper spray
    • Taser
    • Trip wires
    • A guard dog – a really mean looking one :)

    These other defense tools are great to get someone off your property initially but keep in mind that they’ll get away and may come back with the knowledge that this time they’ll have to kill you to get your food.


    If you plan to stay in your home for more than a month before bugging out, you need to consider investing in fortifications for your home. This includes making some changes that are more functional than pretty. This includes things like plexiglass windows, steel doors, removing landscaping features that people can easily hide in, blacking out windows, etc. Anything that can make your home more secure makes you less of a target.

    So for all you city dwelling preppers, I hope this helped. Make your plan bullet proof. You are already at a disadvantage so have a process in place for everything you need to do. Good luck and happy prepping!

    Jessica Hooley is the author of Salt n’ Prepper and contributor to the Army Navy Store Blog – PX Supply.


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      1. How you react to the situation is just as important as how you have prepared. Til whatever happens, happens, nobody can be sure they are prepared.

        • when a crisis situation does occur
          that will be bad enough in and of itself
          what will make it a 100X worse
          is how people react to it
          PANIC BUYING
          LAWLESSNESS on a significant part of the population

          we get a little taste of that every time a major hurricane comes through
          the stores empty within hours
          lines at the gas pumps
          and after the storm people looting damaged homes

        • Telling flatlanders to bug out and head for hills when the SHTF is great advice.

          Unless you’re already there.

          I live in a very rural area about 50 miles from a major metro area. If these folks head my direction in a crisis, what am I supposed to do with them?

          I hate to be a pooper of parties and a big fat meany, but I kind of wish we would stop telling city folk to head to the country. If they come here and try to reap a harvest someone else planted, there’s bound to be trouble. And in the end, there won’t be enough for all anyway.

          If you live in the city, get a gun, stay put and wait it out. If you have a place to go or relatives who will take you in, go for it.

          But if you don’t, then don’t just mosey on into a mountain community and say “Here I am. Deal with me”.

          Based on the kind of reception you get, you may have been better of in the city.

          • Paddy: Right you are! Folks, you better be there to get there, have a property to go to there unless you have a “Dogtown Reservoir” nearby, and have the tools and supplies necessary for real survival.

            Real time spent in the bush before hand is essential. Don’t take your flat screen with you when you “practice” by camping. Camping is better than nothing but it is not the real thing.

            My respects to the author, but a 96 hour BOB will be marginally helpful in a real SHTF scenario.

            Useful for fire, flood, hurricane and tornado, maybe, or to get you to the nearest FEMA Camp, stadium, or coliseum, but for the real deal
            if that is all you have, you are only delaying the inevitable and you would have likely survived longer staying at home.

            • If millions “bug out” to “the country” it won’t be “the country” anymore!

          • Pick and Choose Paddy!

            Seriously when you see a Marine and his family coming along carrying the necessities you know they could help you in a pinch; depending on your own skills pick and choose from those city dwellars for the services you will need – I’ll be looking for a cute nurse!

            • ” I’ll be looking for a cute nurse!”

              Be careful that you don’t end up with a cute means of your own demise. It doesn’t take rocket science to have some pretty little thing come into your home, give you a little pickle-tickle…

              …then when you fall asleep, she lets her boyfriend and his buddies in to kill you and ransack your house.

              You may want to find your little post-apocalyptic bunny now, *before* a time comes when trust issues mean life-or-death.

          • Exactly.

            A year ago, I figured “okay, if anything goes wrong I’ll just drive to my in-laws’ place out in West Bumfuck and I’ll be okay”

            Problem is two-fold with that:

            1) getting there. If you’re not stuck at a full stop in the world’s greatest traffic jam (and just waiting for government or thieves to attack you), you’re going to be out on roads where law enforcement won’t really be around to keep order, let alone help you out. Good luck with that.

            2) once you get there. Even with family waiting, how prepared are they? What happens if you have to share a house with all the other relatives that made it, and none of them are prepared? I’m pretty sure the neighbors are going to have a very loud say in whether or not you get to stay, and may well drive you off before you even get to the town. Even if you have a doomsday palace waiting for you, odds are good that someone else has already occupied it, and they’ll be in no mood to be evicted (after all, you kindly left them a mountain of food and weapons – that was nice of you, no?)

            No… I learned early on, and put into practice, that the best way to weather it is to already be out there, living it.

            I still have one small problem, in that I drive into the city a couple days a week to work. However, I already have plans and equipment that can get me home, and I already know enough of my fellow townsfolk that I will have a much easier time getting past the patrols than the refugees will. Meanwhile, my missus is waiting at home watching the place, armed and definitely dangerous.

            By contrast? I doubt that most refugees would even get that far out in the country, most of them dying off at the 40-50 mile mark.

          • Look at all the thumbs up — I get the feeling a lot of us rural folk are all feeling the same way. Hoards leaving the city will be just that — hoards. The “country” will not be able to absorb them. Bugging out without a specific destination in mind — one that EXPECTS you and has provisions for you — will not be a safe thing for people to do. I am so tired of reading articles like this one that do not stress that FACT enough.

            • Oops, make that “hordes” up there, not hoards. Need more coffee. . . .

          • Don’t worry Paddy, 30% of the would most likely be dead and another 30% too stupid to leave the city. I estimate only 20-40% of the city will come to the country.

            And yes, it will remain country, the only difference, it will be hunting season. It’ll be your choice if you are the stalker or the quarry.

          • Dead on, paddy.

            If you’re in the city, you stand a fair chance of dying in the dieoff. Same goes in the country. So just do your best and try to take plenty of bad people with you if it comes to that.

          • Well said Paddy. I grew up in the country but now am stuck in a suburb. But I think it is better to be prepped and stay under the radar here than it is to ‘bug out’ to the country. Even if you have provisions in a rural setting, everyone else knows that countryfolk have food. That will be their first stop.

          • I understand what you are saying but the problem that I have with it is that people from the “mountain communities” have no problem coming into the cities whenever they choose too. I see them everyday rolling into work, the hospitals, the stores etc., etc. So when the people from the “mountain communities” are in need they readily show up in the cities expecting to be greeted with open arms but when others are in need and show up in their community well I guess the door gets closed.

            • You’re funny USC. Most people in my neck o’ the woods go to the city only when absolutely necessary. We don’t expect to be “greeted with open arms”; we expect people to be rude, bad drivers and have lousy attitudes. And that’s usually what we see.

              Let’s talk about who has the greater need; we can get by on our own land and little else. You people, on the other hand, live on the electricity provided by hydroelectric dams on rivers flowing through our communities up here.

              We dynamite those or otherwise render them inoperable and the cities so desperately dependent on them would be wastelands and war zones on a matter of hours.

              You need from us more than we need from you.

            • Let’s see, by “mountain communities” most around here mean 50+ miles from the next big city (likely half million or larger depending on whom you’re talking to/with).

              You see people driving that distance everyday? That’s nearly a tank of gas a day for anyone with a truck (hybrids on highways are just as bad as a truck, no place to regeneratively break). So let’s be nice and say $40/day in fuel if not more. Ok, I make enough to make that worth while but I have far better things to do with my time then spend 100 miles a day on the road driving (even at 60 mph steady with no traffic that is nearly an hour and a half a day…).

              No, I think you’re referring to people living out in the ‘burbs. Or you’re defining the city differently. I live near a city of 16-20,000, about 20mins away, which is about 20 minutes away from a city of nearly half a million (a hair under). The difference is, the people in the 16-20,000 population city likely have relatives near me in the “hills” and they will be welcome. Now the unprepared hordes from the larger city will not be (unless they have great knowledge of family members within our patrol borders).

              But the cities do not welcome us with open arms either, the people are rude and unfriendly. So we’re just returning the favor I suppose 😉

            • To Paddy O’furniture,

              Fair enough on what you say, so I have an idea you stay where you are, including when people need dialysis, receive traumatic injuries, have terrible car wrecks, and anything else that requires that you need medical care that you can’t receive in the “country”. You know care you will receive from the doctors, nurses and other medical professionals that live in the city. How about also you don’t sell your products or work in the city either.

            • to Mike L,

              If you don’t think that people are not commuting into the cities from the “country” you really have no idea of what is going on. Why do people live in over crowded cities? Because that is where the work is. Where I live people are commuting 40, 50 and 60 miles a day each way. Also how about all the tax money the States receive to pave the roads out in the country from the sales tax and property taxes and income taxes from all of us who work and live in the cities

            • @USC-to your comment about my comment about your comment (?), don’t know if you’re aware of it, but up in the hills, we do have modern things like dialysis clinics, ER’s, running water and electricity (we even have pizza delivery in some areas). In fact, one of my neighbors is my kid’s pediatrician and another is my dentist. We also have a Walmart for anybody who’s interested.

              The idea that we can only survive because of our close proximity to a mertopolitan city is silly. I live where I do because this is where I was born and raised, not because I want the nearby convenience of a shopping mall or a ball park. I have no umbillical cord attached to the city. If it burns, I and most others I know will be just fine. Saddened, but fine, thanks you very much.

          • you made your BED………now you have to lie in it!

        • If you are living in a city you are not prepared. The two concepts are mutually antagonistic, in the same way as military and intelligence are.

          It does not matter how much of anything you have, if you do not know most of your neighbours within a days walk you are in deep, deep shit. All castles are cages, and patience is one hell of a warrior. Better to be in a castle with a large field of fire.

          Better to be out of the hordes way and prepared than in their way and pretending to be prepared.

          • @Eagle … Agreed and here’s the zombie map which details the cities that are nothing but traps! Unfortunately I live in one.


            • It appears I am safe. Some of the roads in my county are red, but where I am it is pitch black.

          • As for all persons “new” to prepping, or those that live in an apartment,possibly in the city, and are kind of intimidated by all the options; here is a good way to get started cheaply. We drink wine occasionally and have found that buying the “three” liter glass jugs are best buy. I fish them out of the recycling bins sometimes, because for long-term storage you can’t beat glass containers. If you live in a city where you plan on bugging out to somplace else and you haven’t got “someplace else” figured out yet; You may want to stay with plastic for weight purposes. Anyways, after the jug is cleaned and dried throughly, we purchase two- 3 lb. bags of long grain rice(not minute or instant) and try to buy when it’s on sale. Then take a funnel and pour the rice in. After shaking down, the 3 liter jug holds exactly 6 lbs. of rice. With two gallons of clean, distilled water, or at least boiled and filtered,(preferrably in glass)sitting beside the rice jug, you have approximately 60 servings of rice on hand, that will keep in a closet or basement and can make you feel good about getting started without too much expense. Next time, I’ll give the same type info using dried pinto beans. In proteins per pound,and relative low cost, I don’t think you can go wrong with dried beans and rice as a mainstay for your prepping foods. You may get tired of it after a few weeks, but it will keep you alive. Just a very good choice to start with. I’ve noticed the large bags of pintos are usually sold out at the local supermarkets lately.

            • the bags inside wine boxes make great backup-for-your-backup water containers for bug out. Each of us keeps a couple folded up in our BOBs. Folds to about the size of a wallet, plus the spigot. I also use them for backpacking for collecting water for my filter. (dont’ forget to mark it “dirty”, trust me, LOL)

            • If you freeze the rice for about 3 days brfore decanting, you will have killed any stray insect eggs residing therein, and hopefully any mold spores as well …

      2. i’m prepping as fast as i can for a city stay as i have no choice in the matter at this time…

        • I am in a similar situation, albeit in a poor suburb instead of a city center. My biggest problem is that while I don’t live in poverty, I do live below the “Camry line”(my term for having sufficient income that you could afford a car payment on an average new family sedan with good credit). As such, I have a lot of ideas but not nearly enough income to do them. One of them I will suggest to you. Look on Craigslist in more rural areas within 2 hours drive for a cheap piece of land (preferably off a poorly maintained dirt road). Sometimes they are sold for hunting purposes and can be had for as little as $3-5k per acre. As you can afford to live in a city, I am assuming that it would be possible for you to purchase such a piece of land with a little bit of austerity and saving. This will be your bug out location. Build a primitive shelter on it or get an old camping trailer or even a shipping container so that you have somewhere dry to stay. Position a cache of long storing food in a storage facility 2/3-3/4 of the way there so that you can abandon the food at your apartment and not go hungry. Also put some rain barrels, gutters and a good water filter in the unit so that you can produce potable water on site. Lastly, seed the land heavily with whatever food crops will grow on it as soon as you buy the land. This will give you immediate food production should you need it. This would be a hard place to survive, but infinitely more do-able than trying to have a go of it in the city during a catastrophe. The key is to get away from large masses of desperate people in such an emergency. Remember: You won’t need 6-12 months of food storage if you live in a city. If it gets that bad for that long and you stay, you’ll wind up robbed or dead long before you run out of preps.

          • You hypothetically described almost exactly what I did. I bought a few wooded acres near a national forest and built a small cabin with a sleeping loft and rainwater cistern. A few solar panels, wood stove, and a couple propane tanks (for the range and H2O heater) will provide all the comforts of home for a couple years while I figure out something sustainable. I have planted an orchard and hope to build a chicken coop and rabbit hutches this summer.

            I have about $10K in it so far which is not bad considering that According to the National Automobile Dealers Association, as of 2010 the average cost of a new car in the United States was around $28,400.

            • WS and GG, you guys are getting there…having a place to go that is yours is a good start. Having shelter and the bones for a basic living system like you have is next.

              Having a place to go but nothing to do with it but shoot squirrels and crows is not a plan.

              The 20 acres next to me is owned by a guy who lives out of area and comes every couple of months and cuts a little wood. The land is bare except for the trees. It’s not sustainable. But after the turd/turbine interface, he’ll be on that land probably thinking he’s got it made. He may be safe (for the time being), but with no basic survival infrastructure in place, within a week or two, he’ll be getting desperate. Then what’s he gonna do? That’s right, he’ll be on my doorstep looking for help.

              What should I do? Maybe I’ll trade him 100# of rice for his 20 acres…

            • I believe the knowledge I carry with me about farming, etc. from my youth is much more valuable than the farms themselves.

              FerFAL, who survived socioeconomic collapse in Argentina in 2001, just posted an excellent article on explaining why farms will be overrun by the hordes and stripped bare despite armed defenses. If things get as bad as you suggest, there will be plenty of pasture and cropland available once the human locust have moved on.

            • Mr O’Furniture I might trade the guy a bullet for his farm if I don’t like ‘im.

              As for the EXCELLENT e-book recommended by FarFal about the fall of Rhodesia, the good guys lost because there were not willing to win. Win means, you know what village (or think you know, good enough!) the baddies are hiding in, you exterminate the whole village. Sure there are good people in that village but they are the other tribe. In fact the historically-correct say to think about it is to consider them some sort of particularly obnoxious animals, hyenas, say, and that it’s just a great laugh to shoot ’em for fun. They, in the mean time, think and do exactly the same about you. The white Rhodesians lost because they Did Not Get With The Program.

          • If you are going to store food in a storage unit, be sure it is climate controlled. Those metal buildings get hot and will greatly reduce shelf life.

          • One small problem: Unless you camouflage the unholy hell out of it, all that pre-positioned stuff will become someone else’s property pretty quickly, so I hope you get there first.

            • There is practically no where in Southern Arizona or Calif. that is remote that is secure from the illegal horde. Arizona is especially bad up to a hundred miles from the border. People are being driven off their land by the crime. the same situation also now exists in the Calif. San jaoaquin Valley wher leaving a farm or ranch unattended results in trucks being driven in and everything not nailed down being stolen. Spotters drive up and down the roads all day just waiting for the properties to be left empty.

            • John W. – and the reason this is a problem is because the lawful residents of that area area not allowed to have “hunting parties” and eliminate the problem. Hunt the hunters.

            • Well, it depends on exactly what you pre-position. A storage container is quite hard to move. I am suggesting leaving it empty on a piece of land in the middle of nowhere off of a poorly maintained dirt road that is not likely to be the first place refugees would go to. None of the preps should be left on the property. This is why I suggest the storage facility within 30-40 minutes of the final location, in a small town with people who are somewhat more self-sufficient and less likely to descend into chaos and anarchy. You can then make multiple trips to it while the city burns a few hours away. Using the storage center lets you hide it in plain sight as it will be behind one of hundreds of identical doors that are inside a fairly secure location during normal times. Also, choosing a location within 3 hours drive means you can get there within a few days walk, if needed. Then again, this idea works where I am but may not work everywhere. Frankly, if I were in a state like California, I would be looking to move to a more liberty oriented location-if possible. If that is not feasible, then you just have to figure out what to do with the situation you have.

            • “A storage container is quite hard to move.”

              …but not that hard to bust into (especially if the early bird has a hitch and a length of sturdy chain…)

              Hiding in plain sight isn’t a bad idea, especially in the initial stages. On the other hand, the longer that cache sits around after the S begins HTF, the less likely it will be there when you need it.

              No scientific basis or curve to speak of for this, but I figure that if it hasn’t been found and ‘liberated’ by month 12 post-collapse, you’ll probably find it unmolested, because it will have been hidden that damned well.

        • I’ve just finished putting together the information on the beans/rice beginning storage/prepping project. Instead of going through all of it here I’ll offer it to anyone interested via my email. I have an article attached that gives some interesting info about minimum calories and it gets kinda lengthy. Just send me a request at [email protected] and I’ll send it. The article I’ve put together may be of help to anyone new to prepping and especially those in an apartment/big city environment.

      3. I live in a city … of 30,000 which seems small, but nevertheless at the first sign of trouble we will be leaving for our secluded retreat by either the main highway, secondary roads, or via the rail trail on the dual sport motorcycle or on foot.

        Although we have almost everything necessary to stay put in our solar powered retreat for two years, we still have a lot of labor to do to become completely self-sufficient.

        I do not feel responsible for preparing for every contingency, but that I am accountable for my part. I prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and trust God for the difference.

        • Have you considered a hot air balloon? Just kidding around. Talk about being a sitting duck in a bulls-eye target. My wife and I also joke around about personal jet-packs as well.

          • Contrary to what you see in a zombie movie, people do not flip a switch into anarchy in small cities like ours. Normalcy bias and the fact we are hundreds of miles from a major city gives us ample time to make the hour trip. We are nine meals from anarchy, not one.

            Hurricanes are a good example. The minute an evacuation is announced, people do not immediately venture into the woods and start shooting people traveling without provisions.

            • hurricanes and Economic collapses may play differently. Hurricanes are seen as short term, government coming to help. We have never seen a true economic collapse where, banks are shuttered, stores are cleared out, travel is curtailed, and a list of other things all at the same time. Hurricanes produce a short burst of activity with the thought of normalcy returning after the clean up. Socio-economic collapse will have opportunistic thuggs out in force when the ATMS no longer dispense cash, stores are not being restocked, etc.

              True people don’t starting shooting others for supplies immediately, but hat is due to the familiarity of the cource of events in a hurricane scenerio.

              The unknown events of a socio economic collapse will be the psyc factor that triggers the bad side of people quicker.

            • There may be a few exceptions, but history has shown that for the most part people will tape plastic sheeting to their windows and sit on their @$$ waiting rescue as they have been trained to do – until they run out of food.

            • @Pastor:

              Good point, but it all happens as matters of degree.

              The minute any evacuation is actually announced, the police (and likely national guard) will have already be pre-positioned to funnel you out to wherever they want you to go. This may not exactly coincide with where you want to go. Within an 45 minutes of that announcement, if you’re not already on the road and halfway out of town (or preparing a boat for launch on a navigable waterway), you’re basically screwed. Leave as little as an hour later (depending on the crisis), and the roads will be jammed solid.

              By that point, you got a choice: Either stay at home with all your stuff, or be stuck on the road with all your stuff (or as much of it as the car can carry).

              But, I think in a collapse situation, your window of time will be real small, and for one reason: Martial Law. Unless we’re talking all-out nuclear warfare, you will have police locking down the cities, and they will restrict travel heavily in order to keep order. You can get by them *if* you have a definite address as a destination (“I’m just going home, officer!”), but even that’s not a given.

              If I still lived in town (and even in my current situation), there’s only two things to do, without further thought or consideration, and do them at the first sign of the fan finding feces:

              1) Leave immediately. Don’t pack, forget the makeup, forget the cat, and the only things that should go into your car besides the wife and kids are their BOBs. Use whatever language is necessary to get everyone in the car RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!

              2) As soon as practical, take the back roads, and get moving on them, all the way to your destination. Forget any road that has more than two lanes on it. It is hoped that you were smart enough to scout out and test-drive this path (and alternates), and furthermore doing so at least once a month to avoid any unpleasant surprises or changes. Now is not the time to try to figure this shit out.

              Even in a slow collapse, luck and fate will go to those who act the soonest and the fastest. It is far better to be out in your BOL speculating, than it is to be in a massive traffic jam desperately hoping.

        • I agree PP and think any disaster short of a total collapse of the dollar or a complete stoppage of food transport(like a New Madrid event whereby all bridges over the Mississippi River become impassable) will not result in a mass exodus from the cities. I’d speculate that in cities/counties with less than 100K residents; the majority will stay put anyway. But, when the “real” SHTF and cities with 1/4 to 1.5 million or more “panic”, then I see a scenario unfolding as mass chaos on the major highways. I think the comments by ‘Odd Questioner’, just below, are spot on as to what will take place with a major event.

          • OK, I guess I meant ….”just above” on Odd Questioner’s comments

      4. Where is Kevin?

        Y’all Beware! He must be workin’.

        • LOL!

        • Y’all: i think Kevin got on
          one of those ‘hangover busses’…

          Seriously though, nice article 🙂

          • Will the “Real Kevin” please step forward?

        • Mint!

        • Y’all

          For once I have to correct you, kev is sitting in his unprepared urban home writing the speech he will give to home invaders. He has worded it carefully, hoping to play on their inner emotions. This will cause them to apologise profusely and leave his home as they will have seen the error of their ways. Kevin will copy the speech and give it to us all….he will be hailed as the saviour of the UK.

          Sorry couldn’t help it.

          Take care

          • I think they’re talking about the real kevin, not the troll Kev.

            • Whoops

              Sorry real Kevin. Still haven’t quite got all the transatlantic humour and lingo sorted out yet.

              Take care

      5. Maybe a good suggestion for the city dwellers out there is.., to rent a storage unit that is on the outside edge of the city or the next town close to your city.

        You can have all or most of your supplies hidden there and your neighbors will not know. You can have one big enough to hide your bug out vehicle in.

        But you might keep a bolt cutter with you at your place in the city to carry with you to the rental.

        I understand that there will be holes in this suggestion. 🙂

        • There are holes in every suggestion. I think this is reasonable. The problem is all those dollars you’ll have to spend. One you can stuff a vehicle is is probably going to be $50 a month. Thats a lot of preps, but, hey, you do what you can.

          Sounds like a good plan. You have a couple weeks of supplies at the apartment or whatever and when you decide to bug out, you bug out lite and fast. Depending on where the storage unit is, you might be able to hang there for a bit to make sure its the real deal. If it is, you fire up the bov, leave or follow with the other vehicle. You could be in an almost packed-and-ready-to-go situation all the time.

          Just be sure to have a few alternate routes to the storage units.

          • @ NetRanger;

            Hanging out at the storage rental is not a bad idea.., it could be multi-functional.

        • I did that until I got my solar cabin built. I also bought a locking deck box from Sam’s club for $99 which I kept at the job site.

        • What if you have to go through riots and starving human scum to get to it?

          • Note to self…
            Get Zombie Guard mounted to front of Suburban Z71! 🙂

            • RightWingMom, I could only give your comment one thumb up, otherwise it deserves two! 🙂

            • We have Ranch Hand front end’s on My wife’s 4×4 Excursion
              & my F-350 4×4 Dually. Both have diesel engines….so we can clear the average 4 wheeler out of the way easily.
              They also wilmakeak quick work of zombies. Hit a deer a couple months back at highway speed…..the deer was terminated…..but did nothing to the Excursion. The next step up would be a nice Deuce & a half ! I always loved watching Rambo run the road block in one of those.
              Keep on Preppin !
              Montgomery County Texas

            • Look into foam filled tires also….no flats

            • Thanks High Roller! 🙂

            • Big vehicles have their place, but they tend to eat gasoline/diesel… a lot of it.

              If I still lived in the city (PDX), I would do my level best to have a (sail)boat on or near the river that runs right through town, because that’s the one and only reliable means you’d have of getting out of there.

          • Hornady makes special zombie ammo in various calibers. I’ve got a box of 9mm on my desk at work. Its rather expensive but it could give you confidence in a pinch.

          • run them over

        • I’m thinking storage units are going to be prime targets for looters.

          • Walt.., I would guess in the beginning you would be ok., then you want to get the he** out of there. Depending on the scenario.

        • Eagle dove

          There’s a great big hole where Kevs brain should be.

          This is something I hadn’t thought of. I won’t be bugging out, nowhere to go except London which will be even worse than my current location, but a storage unit could have possibilities, it is worth having a look around see what’s out there

          Take care

          • I’m a Londoner and my plan is basically to get the hell outta dodge as soon as I smell trouble on the horizon. I’m an ordinary Mum not a Hollywood hero.

            I fully expect a false flag in roughly a years time when the gilt rubs off the Olympics etc. I was there 7/7 and learned my lessons. That time I used the river as an exit route as all roads and public transport was shut down around the city/zone 1. As were all telephone communications. The emergency services were running blind.

            I can guarantee if something big goes down the area within the m25 could be totally locked down within hours so a key goal is get OUT fast! Containment will be the goal of the authorities and both sides learned lessons last summer in the riots.

            A tent, a sleeping bag & a pushbike are my key preps as I don’t intend to travel on major roads and know several non-standard routes to several temporary respite spots on my way to those relatives in the boonies mentioned in the article.

            More than one temporary rest location could be essential – our final spot is sadly about a weeks travel on bike from London & while there is a vehicle parked outside the m25 ready to get us there in a few hours you can’t guarantee it would be possible to use it. Share a lock up in the same location as the vehicle for supplies.

            Bugging in isn’t an option beyond a couple of weeks or a month to wait for a lull in any civil unrest to take the opportunity to escape. Beyond that the sanitation risks (I have neighbours who live like animals now, never mind when shtf!)& danger of fire gets too great even if you ignore the gangbanger element.

            Land in the UK is insanely expensive & not close to employment opportunities so many UK preppers have no choice but to bug in. Southern Ireland can be relatively easy to get with just a car & a trailer. I’m not the only person I know trying to make a permanent relocation but the current housing market makes this tougher with every month that goes by.

            Burt – have you thought of a ruralish holiday chalet as a possible bug out? In some areas you can buy one of these for as little as 5k. A holiday park home could offer respite. No land but that’s where gurilla gardening skills come in.

            • ” Southern Ireland can be relatively easy to get with just a car & a trailer. ”

              Assuming the ferries are still running. Just curious about any contingencies on that route.

          • Burt.., good luck with this endeavor.

            I don’t know anything about London.., so I guess they have storage units there also. In America, I hear it’s become a status symbol to have one and don’t know why. 🙂

      6. She could have stopped at move,move,move,. If she needed to say more it should have been, leave quick, leave quick, leave quick. Even in a ‘bank holiday’ situation you have at best three hours to get away from urban center. we are not the America of 1929. people will skip right to their core animal behavior at the flip of a switch. If you choose to stay in a city… you will be choosing to give up your life and that of your family. staying in city is NOT an option.

        • they chose to live in the city….SO STAY THERE AND REAP THE WHIRLWIND!,
          If they come to the country they will be lambs to the slaughter.
          We have our own problems getting ready and dont need interlopers messing it up.
          Here comes the ole saying….SORRY BOUT YOUR LUCK!
          Sorry but them is the facts!

      7. 236 resignations from the world central banks in the first 68 days of 2012

          • I spent the time to listen to this Drake interview. Is this a psuedo “Orson Wells- War of the Worlds” production or is there the slightest hint of autheticity?
            It is fascinating. It felt “real”… Anybody want to comment?

          • NetRanger–thanks for the link–folks, I don’t do videos..but every of you here need to listen, send to all your family–I thought this talk was soooo out there for a year and going nowhere.
            I am firmly convinced something on this line is in the works; there is hope for this nation.
            The gentleman is so believable and credible; he knows his chit.
            find it on youtube–it is a must listen..PLEASE, I’m begging for all to learn what’s going on.
            It restores my faith; we won’t be left out there in fema camps; military is ready and waiting.
            This is our nation; be aware that we will take it back with this plan.

            (Rick: this guy is too knowledgable–credible?? yes??)

            • Yeah, but can you imagine what the inside of the Pentagon,CIA,FBI, WH,would be like if they got a whif of this! Yes,this guy sounded like he knew his chit, but something like this rolling around inside the Halls?? Man, what to believe, what to ignore. One thing I think for sure, we’re in for on helluva show, and it just feels like soon.
              Oh, and by the way,I don’t think the Prepper shows on tv are a coincidence. Yes the producers see a market, but in some way I believe this is a message to get the word out, to at least take some responsibility for your own well being. Some of the folks are portrayed a little out there, makes for good tv, but all in all they are not insulted by the producers. I do think it’s a little lame to give away your secrets, but shame on a zombie that targets some of these folks. Some are loaded for bear.haha

          • Probably a false flag in and of itself.

            Whether one is a bible believer or not, remember that the anti-christ will also come with smiles and soothing words… and will deceive many. You know, to save us. Of course, what would he/they possibly save us from?

        • VRF, are the rats leaving the ship? I’d sure like to know what that’s all about.

          • Yes, they are.

        • 450 total, last I heard. Could easily be more now.

          • I had a feeling the number grew since i last did a tally..thanks for the updated figure

          • Scout—The speaker on the video with Wilcox commented on noone leaving America.
            He inquired from those in the know; he said they were not resigning; taking ‘vacation’ time, with family and bags and cleaning out bank accounts no doubt??

      8. Urban Danger

        posted for anyone who hasn’t seen this yet

        as they say
        Noah started building the ark BEFORE it started raining

      9. FIFTH!

        Sorry, just couldn’t help it.

        Just thinking about what could happen, how to prep for it, how to bug out, where to go gets you half way there!

        Now, *DO* something.

        Many people I talk to that prep see it as a insurmountable situation. I tell them don’t look at my preps or where you need to be. Look at it one step at a time. First, buy that extra jar of peanut better and an extra bag of rice. Then a water filter. A 22 rifle and 1000 rounds of ammo. Just keep adding $10, $20, $100 at a time, whatever you can afford. If you’re just staring out, anything is a plus.

        Ugh, but the city, frankly, scares me. You need a place to hide initially and then you need a capable vehicle and routes to get out. The whole thing, frankly, makes me so very thankful I am bugging in.

        My 30 acres isn’t in the perfect place but its darn close. Lots of wood for fuel. My son and I could cut firewood indefinitely just off of fallen limbs and dead trees. Once we get them cleaned up, there are always more. About 20 of the 30 acres is woods.

        I’ve considered opening it up to some trusted people as a backup bugout for reciprocal consideration.

        I wrote an article a year or so ago about urban prepping. Frankly, it scares the crap out of me to think of being trapped in the city with so many urbanite zombies for any significant period of time, SHTF or not. I work near the center of a city of 65,000. I can’t even IMAGINE living there in good times. All the rapes and stabbings, drive bys, shootings, vandalism, muggings are just too much. I wouldn’t move there if I had a rent free mansion waiting for me with a gold handled toilet.

        • Sounds like a superb plan you have NetRanger. Is that gold handled toilet 24K? That might be worth it for a short stay!

          • Maybe it would be to some. Not me. I guess if the handle was 24K I could replace it with a chrome one from Lowes after a weekend stay.

            …nah. If one becomes available, I’ll pass on the info to you.


            • Thanks NetRanger!

        • Scenario reminds us of “Escape from New York.” (And Ernest Borgnine and his cab are NOT going to be there to transport you to safety…)

          • P.S. And Snake’s retired now, so it’s all up to YOU…

        • Net ranger I have almost the same situation with half the acrage. I drive almost 50 miles one way to work so I can live out in the boonies. Only two roads up a steep hill that a few of my neighbors and me can drop tons of dirt onto with a bit of BOOM. we will dig out later. Moved here with a transfer to get out and away from large cities. We are doing exacly what you stated $50.00 to $500.00 a month to build up and get everything we need. I have several freinds at work now on this band wagon. A few may join us up here on the hill. Good advice.

      10. We’ve been growing climbing rose on the inside of our privacy fence.They grow pretty fast and I don’t know anyone willing to climb through them.They could be helpful under windows etc.
        Good article by the way.Alot of good advice.

      11. Jessica….

        What kind of emergencies are you contemplating that would make it advisable to move from a city? And, how do you see each of these emergencies evolving over time? All emergencies are not created equal. A statement like “move, move, move” from a city seems a little radical for many potential emergency scenarios.

        BTW, how much do the people in Lehi rely on the people in Salt Lake City versus how much do the people in SLC rely on the people in Lehi?

        • Dude… that’s a pretty big problem living in/near the Ogden-Provo corridor. Half of Utah’s population lives there (something like ~2 million people in that megalopolis). You already know the water situation. I-15 is a nightmare during rush hour on most weekdays.

          Lehi would have it the worst, since it would be smack in-between the hordes fleeing south from SLC, and the hordes fleeing north from Provo.

          OTOH, Utah is kind of unique. Unless you lived in Brigham City/Logan or the like, water (and access to it) would be a hella big priority between May and October.

          Then again, if no one is looking, you could always run off to Antelope or Starvation Island out on the lake… assuming you’re the first to get there, and you could hold it.

      12. My family and I are moving out to the country. It’s getting closer and the birth pains are getting louder. I’ll have close to 10,000 rounds of ammo combined for all my guns, enough food for a small army, and plenty of stuff to keep us busy. We’re insulated by 9 miles of neighbors before you get to us. Its s great spot… Good luck to everyone out there moving out to the country. Do it soon because there’s not much time.

        • Great advice! Things in Europe have become very unstable financially and politically, and when it finally crumbles it won’t take long for the contagion to reach the U.S. Get ready folks.

      13. Glad I’m not in a city.

        • High

          I am glad you lot are not in cities, there are enough of us here already lol

          Only kidding. Now, having a couple of people with your knowledge move in close by would really make my day, and could possibly save my life…well, a woman can dream.

          Take care

      14. If you stay in the city pass the Mass exodus, which tactically might be wise, I think you run the real risk that any vehicle short of a tank or bull dozer won’t be able to navigate the streets out of town.

        Think about it: panic, chaos, 100k+ trying to escape a dozen square mile area = fender benders, crashes, car fires, stalled and fueless cars, miles of traffic, people trying to use alternate routes and thus blocking even the inbound lanes.

        All this not to mention the preditors out there setting up road blocks. I have a city between me and my bug out destination and I plan on avoiding it like the plague, unless I am sure people at large are still completely unaware that the S is HingTF (since bypassing the city adds 1-2 hrs to
        my trip.

        • Yea, it’s not like roads would be cleared following an attempted mass exodus. Once the Main highways are full of broken/out of gas cars, they won’t be cleared unless needed by the guberment, in which case just anyone won’t be allowed to cruise.

          • Ha, that’s what 4×4 and the ditches are for.
            Who needs guberment?

        • My only thought has always been either get out early at the first signs or wait it out. Early stages most people will be glued to the news 24/7 for more news on whats going on. That is your go signal. Plus, this goden horde of people exiting the cities always perplexes me, 90% of the people have no where to go, the don’t a retreat location or cache of supplies waiting for them at certain locations so why would they evacuate a city under any other circumstance other than a hurricane.

          War, they’ll be glued to the news. Economic collapse, they’ll be glued to the news.

 has body armour under the Tactical gear section that is $100 under retail. Great prices on other things as well, haven’t started preparing yet you may wan tto take a look.

      15. One thing that I never see mentioned is installing safety film for your windows. The advantge is your windows looks just like everyone elses but it takes alot to get through. Search youtube for safety film demo. I’ve got it all over my house and I double up on it. Take it from a tintguy its not hard to do. You might not get it installed as clean looking as a professional but it’ll still do its job. Get atleast 4-7mm and do it on the inside and outside. If you have a housing association don’t worry the film is clear no one will know it beats getting bars for your windows. Goodluck keep stacking:)

        • Tint guy

          Like the idea thanks

          Take care

        • Dam good idea, Looks like it could repel a molotov cocktail, or even a smoke or pepper bomb.

        • The House Armor windows are awesome. If you can afford it change out the windows that face ones toward the street. Anyone who has a secondary place that is more than fifty miles from where they are would be better just to stay in place. If there are any towns or cities on the way just give it up. Just getting gas will be a challenge not to mention all those that will be wanting to help themselves to someone elses ride.

        • Doubt it beats getting bars on the windows but it is better than nothing

      16. Being in a city during a disaster scares me.
        A lot of sheeple, about six meals till there is no more food, and not a lot of space.

        I think our society has decayed more than we realized, an urban survivalist, they will need to deal with: cars that didn’t make it out of the city and are now in the way, hungry barely human scum that will rape, murderer, assault and steal, paranoid law enforcement that will stop “suspicious people” and confiscate their weapons, vermin feeding on bodies and spreading disease, and lack of fuel, safe drinking water, food, and basic neccesities.

        Good luck. And try not to let the shit hitting the fan destroy your faith in people. Hahaha

      17. For those who have physically prepared for some sort of end of the world as we know it, should also be mentally prepared. My belief is that the majority of American’s will be in an extended denial state that will give those who know it’s coming to get to a secondary safe house out of a city. The mental preparation will help us know that the “crumbling” will be a slow process that the establishment and power elites will do their best to delay and conceal.

      18. hello

      19. Greeting Everyone!
        Not first again(huzza for that!)
        History is about to repeat itself.Again.
        Rome had population of about 1 million till the Visigoths(or their ilk)cut the aqueducts feeding the city water.The city(like so many today)was too broke after the pillaging(like what the Wall-Street Goldie-Sax types are doing today).
        The city shrank to less than 30,000 living the “pastoral”
        Sound what Detroit is going thru…one of many cities to come.
        I DON’T like guns,but times being what they are,it looks like I just might buy one after all.(there are “teenage black children” in groups starting to appear in my so-called “good” ‘hood,guess what happens next?).When SHTF they will be the first to “get what should be theirs”.
        Hopefully,I’ll have my cache ready and be gone.
        At least the country side is only a 5 min. drive away.
        They can keep electronics,furniture,etc.
        Can’t eat or drink Sony or X-boxes!
        I-Pads aren’t even worth eating food on!
        Best to All

      20. I’ve always felt out of my element in a big city, like the tall building were/are possessed by dark entities. The massive amount of concrete feels so unnatural I’m amazed the people stay grounded there, i.e. there’s very little exposed soil to connect one with the earth. My experience is extreme, I know, but quite frankly, I don’t see how anyone can stay sane in such an sterile, grey, cold environment.

        For those who live there and visit this site, I’d say it’s time to bug out. Too easy to get mentally and physically overshadowed in that setting; it corrupts the fine tuning capabilities of a potentially highly advanced nervous system, an essential tool for navigating through the impending turbulent times.

        • EA…It’s funny you say that about cities. Ask some of those urban dwellers how they feel about the country. Many are afraid of the woods and petrified of bees and farm

          • Good. Maybe city folks will stay there.

            • If you are in the city, you are not going to be able to “bug” out to some Paradise out in the country. IF you have country cousins and IF they will take you in, and IF you can get there, maybe it can work.

              No, you chose to live in the city and you will be on the battlefront. Your job will be to “turn off” as many of the bad people as you can. Do a good job, and you get to live.

            • Maybe you have not noticed but alot of real low lifes gravitate to the country. My old lady grew up on a farm outside Portland and even back in the early sixties stuff got stolen. Where do you think the meth labs are? Not in a condo complex or a suburb that’s for sure. It’s gonna really suck when all the people that bug out arrive at their hideouts and find someone who wants it as bad as they do is already there. Anyone think about that?

      21. The main issue with any type of survival is competition for what is left when something occurs. If and when survivors start to see you personally as a resource for whatever reason, that is the trouble that anyone is going to have in a metropolitian area. The more urban someone is talking about and the higher person per square mile the more severe it is going to be. The less natural resources within walking distance, especially water, the worse it is going to be.

        Not to discourage anyone even living in some of the densely populated areas to live, but if someone truly believes that SHTF then pooling their resources, something to leave an urban area should be top priority before something occurs. The worst shockwaves are going to be in high populated areas because these areas depend so much on the outside world to continue to function. Many small towns are surrounded by raw natural resources that can be used for survival. In a mega city, what can someone use that is natural? Even rats, pigeons, and other animals are going to be in short supply because everyone else is going to have the same idea.

        The problem I personally have with bugging out of a mega city is the time factor. Imagine if you discover an actual attack from a foreign enemy, the time to get out even if you have a jet plane waiting for you probably won’t make it out. The suddeness of a SHTF event can be incredible. Say you live in the center part of the U.S. and war with China and or Russia suddenly happens, you probably have less than a half of a hour before the ICBM and or SLBM hits your area. If you are on the coast, maybe a few minutes.

        Forget about WW3. A sudden EMP from the sun fries everything electrical. Trying to bug out is still difficult because of what I call the maniac element out there. Most people will have to get at least 25 miles out of a mega city, more likely 50 miles. This is extreme distance without modern transportation with awful characters looking for people. Maybe if you leave immediately before everyone realizes what happened, but still how much can you take with you? Not much without modern transportation.

        Let’s say a plague starts. Mega cities act like chimneys for spreading germs. Some of the viruses that can develop can hit before anyone knows they have been infected. Being contagious before the symptoms are evident. Big cities have high concentrations of people and someone living there could become contaminated before they even have a chance to bug out and not even know it before it is too late. Smaller areas will likely have a lapsed amount of time before anyone can spread the pathogen, which allows some preparation. Again the time element.

        Martial law is something in which unless someone has advanced warning and ALL the roads and ALL access points out of a city will be closed and guarded. Unless someone has some advanced stealth technology ANYONE leaving an urban area that they are not suppose to will be picked up and held at God knows where.

        I could go on and on with many other likely scenarioes that prove time is against anyone trying to bug out without advanced warning that is so often not there. disasters seem to come on sudden like earthquakes. Out of the blue.

        If someone is determined to stay in an urban area then a good plan would be what is discussed above. All assumed amount of supplies should be doubled because replacements are not going to be available for almost anyone. Make your place as much as a fortess as possible. In short, when someone stays in a highly urban area much more planning and effort must go into prepping than the rural resident. Everyone can survive under the right circumstances and no one should ever not prep and just give up if they are stuck in a mega city.

        Even in a nuclear war there are some places someone can survive in big cities. You may have to go underground hundreds of feet, but everywhere can be survivable somehow. A city person can also hope that their city will not be as affected as others. Clever planning can make the difference.

        It should be noted that the further you get away from ground zero, which are big cities, the better your odds are for surviving. Another point is that unless someone is in jail or medically unable to leave a big city, a person can leave, there are answers and solutions. Most people live in big cities out of choice. I have known people personally that have left urban areas with nothing, I mean literally nothing to get out of what was spiritually killing them with the congestion, pollution, crime, and all the bad things of too many people in a small area. It can be done.

        Many people have the fear of leaving what they are familiar with in big cities, but should weigh in what is worst if and when human civilization goes to the crapper. A choice between trying to survive the extreme conditions of major urban area and trying to make it in a less concentrated zone of population. The choice between long shot odds of survival and much better odds of survival. It is all up to the person.

        This is a good article as ideas can be used almost anywhere with different surroundings. Still hope people out there will try to get to less populated areas before it happens.

      22. I’m trying to put in prospective that I(actually we) are going to unass everything We’ve been working for. It don’t settle well with me. I do have a bugout location setup ,actually more than one,depending on which kind of sinario plays out.I have a short range plan which gets me outside of the city limits,and the other spot is about 45 mins. But i’m not going unless I absolutly have to.All of my family live here. I have a shooting compitition trophy setting on my mantle ,which I’m very proud of,And I will defend what is mine ..

        • Paper targets don’t shoot back. A paintball trophy would be more impressive.

        • It’s only feasable to bug out of small towns or cities. Think about it if you live on the far side of a city twenty five miles across by the time you leave your driveway all the people on the far edges and between are already leaving to and they are in front of you inless you think you are special and will be the only person that gets the word. Not likely. Lost Angeles is a couple of hundred miles across, San Diego is to the South and anyone from there will never get through LA which is a bitch when things work well it still takes three to four hours to get across LA four in some places. Then you are stuck on the Grapevine in an endless traffic jam that goes all the way to Sacramento. That is just an example. When things go South you better allredy be where you want to be.

      23. All is well in the city, good food, drink and entertainment. Nothing is hitting the fan here.

      24. Several people are stating that the situation is more dire than ever. I have no idea how I would be able to get everything thrown into the truck and get out without being robbed at some point. Bugging in and looking out for family seems the only option offhand.

        Check out what this man has to say:

      25. Good morning all

        I am writing this in the hope that you people will find the holes in it and help me plug them.

        I live in a city in the UK of a few million people, I am in the suburbs, no bug out location and no chance of getting one. There are 400 acres of woodland oposite my house, 50 feet from the front door, there is a stream over there, about 200 yards from my front door. My home has no chimney, and an very, very small garden

        . I found when I started I was overwhelmed by the sheer enormity of prepping so I started at the bottom, what would I do if I broke a leg and couldn’t get to the shops?(I am an unsupported single (old) mom with a little girl). I covered that scenario, then I moved up one, gradually covering my what ifs.

        Now I have food for a year and rising, water for two months and large butts on all the downpipes from the roof.

        I have a very large gruesome looking dog who makes a hell of a noise if anyone approaches the house.

        I have planted spikey stuff against all the six foot fences at the back of the house, I container grow a little produce and windowsill grow and sprout all year around.

        I have some defences. Wood with nails through to be placed in the gardens, rubber backed mats with nails through for front and back porch areas, wasp spray and lighters on every upstairs window sill, cattle prod that delivers a good jolt, home made pepper spray that shoots about six feet, laser pointer to temporarily blind people and glass jars ready to fill with combustible fluids to throw if need be.

        I have bio ethanol to provide a little light and heat, enough baby wipes to last a lifetime and other than the will to survive and protect my child that’s it.

        I know this is not enough for the situation I am in but the brain just keeps flipping into “nah” it’s fine mode right now, I have no idea why. I am starting to feel totally unprepared again lol

        Any and all comments really are very welcome and as usual thank you all for the advice and help you have given me over the last year.

        Take care

        • buy a self cranking cross-bow with 50 crossbow bolts for ranged attacks! with extra bow and strings replacement parts and make yourself a couple of proper 5 foot stabbing spears outta solid oak shovel handles and rail-road log 10 inch nails for points or stainless steel thick gauge meat carving knives! you need to have weapons that keeps your stronger attacker physically away from you… at bay! long handled fighting spears stabbing puncturing weapons work better than swords or clubbing! get some scalpels from work… tape them place them around the house in hidden places near your resting places bed, couch, tea table, bathroom!

          and buy a shot gun on the black market! ;0)

        • one more thing burt ;0) … common household bleach in a spray gun will permanently blind a man … an learn to make a single shot .22 caliber Zip Gun or even a small shotgun hand canon! you just need proper thick gauge steel tubing! the chinese once used natural bamboo canons. no bullshit… it can be done.

          they are very easily made… and can set off with just a blow with a small hammer or lit fuse or gun powder fuse!

          obviously be careful!

          • Parson’s Ammonia, it works on dogs.

            Anything stinky/sting-y really.

        • Afternoon(for you)Burt…Good you at least live away from the downtown area. That patch of woods and stream may come in handy after you hunker down in place for a while. In a survival situation you could use the wood as heat and boil the water.I don’t know how you heated during the depression of the 1930’s, but across the pond here many had to bust up furniture or any wood they could get for heat. I realise that you have no chimney, but in extreme situations some type of small solid fuel stove can provide you with heat. You can replace a window pane with a piece of sheet metal with a hole cut in it for the flue pipe. This is not the best way, but seeing no chimney, it could be the difference in freezing or not.

        • Sounds like you have your bases covered Burt. A couple of suggestions from another mom in a no-gun zone:

          Consider “decorative” swords. They can easily become a “weapon of opportunity” which the police find more palatable. “I just grabbed the first thing at hand – this decorative Viking broadsword which hangs on my wall to pay homage to my ancestors, Officer!”

          Make covers for all of your windows ahead of time. Cut covers from heavy duty black plastic to be hung with duct tape. This has two purposes: obviously to keep light from shining out your windows in a totally dark neighbourhood, but secondly, to keep you safe from prying eyes that might be looking into windows to see if there is anything worth stealing.

          Be sure you have numerous fire extinguishers. I suspect fires will be much more commonplace when the grid goes down. They can also be used as a weapon, both by spraying them or using them as a nice heavy blunt instrument.

          • Daisy–I used to fence in college, so I was kind of wondering how practical swords would be in a self-defense situation. While I was able to put the smack down on larger men when they were constrained by the genteel rules of fencing, I suspect my parry and riposte with even an actual weapons-grade rapier would be little use against even an unarmed man unless I was lucky enough to stab him in the throat.

            Now, with a broadsword designed to “cleft from nave to chops” as Shakespeare put it, you could conceivably do more damage, but does the average woman have the strength to “cleft” anything other than a flesh wound, and how much more difficult would it be with a decorative sword?

            An insane amount of technical precision and craftsmanship went into forging medieval weaponry; I’ve never looked into decorative swords, but do they meet the same weapons-grade standards? Just curious, as I am betting you have looked into it extensively. I wasn’t sure if you had tested the theory out on a side of pork or anything.

            Burt, another couple of tools you may want to consider: and axe and a splitting maul. Assuming you can take a crack at the woods across the street before the golden horde wipes them out, these will stand you in good stead…and they are formidable weapons in their own right. I relax by splitting wood and am pretty sure even the biggest bad guy wouldn’t want me waiting behind the door with the maul.

            I would never trade off the lovely “chck chck” of an ought-one deer slug being racked into my 12-gauge, however. God bless the 2nd amendment.

            • Hi Mama Bear! 🙂

              You’re right, an epee would be difficult to use in a “battle” situation.

              I use the term “decorative” because I have to be able to justify my purchase and display of such an item, as would Burt. There are companies that sell “decorative” swords that are of “historical weight and tempering” and that is what you have to look for when purchasing one of those beauties.

              It’s actually a myth that medieval broadswords are unwieldy. Unless they are purely ceremonial, they should weigh less than 10 pounds. A broadsword is better than a knife in my opinion because it allows you a little more physical distance between you and your attacker, making you harder to disarm. I also figure it would look fairly alarming too.

              There’s a website called the arma dot org that has an excellent essay on the historical weights of swords. I’ll post a link but you can probably locate it. 🙂

              And yes, a gun is WAY better than a sword.

            • Thanks for that link, Daisy–very cool. I agree that the medieval sword is a very elegant and deadly weapon–my musing was more on making them do what they were crafted to do in the hands of an extremely powerful warrior who would typically spend 10-15 years apprenticing as a page and squire before joining the ranks of knights. It seems like it would be a lost art.

              I don’t know if you watch the Walking Dead on AMC, a great show for preppers, but the season finale had a chick in a hooded robe with a samaurai sword and two armless pet zombies chained to her. She could obviously do much damage! I thought of you when I saw that. 🙂

            • Mama Bear, you just gotta thing sabre rather than epee. Hand attacks FTW.

        • Hi “Burt”. Sounds to me like your making lemonade out of (self defence) lemons! I suggest that you take some kind of formal, unarmed self defence training (if you haven’t already), and then practice, practice, practice. I’m not talking about that highly technical eastern martial arts stuff, just a good ‘ol street groundfighting course. Sparring teaches you your limits and is great exercise! Also, get a club or pipe that balances nicely for you. Make sure that it is handy enough to use in the close quarters of the interior of your home. Practice with your club on a heavy bag (like boxers use, can be made from an old duffle bag). Get comfortable carrying it with you in your garden, around the house, etc. Make yourself a hard target.

        • To Burt

          The advice given by Daisy; I call it a commemorative letter-opener.—Absolutely!!


          Have you reviewed a plan, with your child, for he/she in the event you are removed from the situation?

          • I think plans for our kids are critical. There are very few people I trust with my kid now.

            Also don’t forget a plan for getting from work to daycare or school to get them, before you get on the road etc. Kids may be herded onto buses to locations the authorities think are safe (fema camps) before you can get to them if you don’t have a plan in place.

            A lot of schools nowadays are like minifortresses and most kids obey their teachers lol! I know there’s NO chance of my son being a sitting duck during a “bomb alert” – he’d be home before anyone noticed he was missing,(got the T-shirt on this one & used to see it as a bad thing)

        • I know you are in a location where the authorities have destroyed your gun rights but consider going on the internet and look up “homemade shotgun”. That is if you can get shotgun shells???

        • A good quality kitchen knife is your best bet, imho.
          According to many (Ferfal, among others) a knife has the jump on a gun in close quarters and short distances.

          Practice with it.

          And maybe buy his book for further advise on how to use it.

          I think it’s better than a decorative sword, or wasp spray, or nails in the ground.

          Now that I’ve written that I fully expect the-powers-that-shouldn’t-be in England to outlaw the ownership of kitchen knives. … If that happens and they take away all your kitchen knives, a ball point pen is your last best choice.

          Good luck, cousin.

        • If you are directly across from 400 acres of woodland, I would bug in and use that fact to your advantage. Get a wood stove and have it installed – you can heat in winter with collected fallen wood from the forest. Also, get three or four chickens to give you eggs and perhaps expand later to make more chickens. Their coop can be small, but you could maybe buy some moveable poultry netting to give them some daytime range space – even extending into the woods. And get a couple of rabbits and breed them for some meat – they take up very little space, are easy to dress out, and if you breed more down the road, it will help to feed your dog too. (After you pull off what you want, throw the rest, bones and all, to him.)

          And even though you call yourself old, it doesn’t mean you can’t learn to hunt game, or even deer. Triggers don’t require much strength to pull. 🙂 It does require practice and skill, but you live right next to a place for it. I don’t know what the laws are in the UK regarding guns, but perhaps you may be allowed one for “hunting purposes” which you could also keep by your bed stand as further self defense.

          The dog is a great thing to have. Ditto the gardening. Keep going though, you have done well so far.

      26. Oh, and a couple of hundred ounces of pure copper and some junk silver in the form of hall marked chains rings etc as well as 12 oz of silver rounds

        • Hiya Burt! Sounds like you’re making good progress in your plans. I don’t have any specifics to offer, but I do hope you take a moment now and then to remind yourself that you ARE doing the right thing. And you’re getting things prepared as best you can. We all need an occasional bit of encouragement, even if we have to give it to ourselves! Don’t let the slow days get you down. And remember, you’re not alone. You got at least a couple hundred friends thinking of you here.

          • 3 Things to work on Burt

            1. Is the dog trained NOT to wolf down a juicy steak lobbed over the fence. It’s too easy to incapitate a dog via poisoning and then come back later to do bad things to a household.

            2. Have you thought about how to make that woodland unappealing as a hide out to those who would do you harm? I’d have a few traps, snare wire etc ready to set up if needed.

            3. That woodland gives you an opportunity to grow extra food. Most UK bods would recognise a few potatoes or quinoa planted there ; )

      27. HISTORY has shown us CITIES ARE BAD PERIOD!

        Hurricane Katrina New Orleans, WW2 Warsaw Poland Ghetto, WW2 Leningrad Russia, Kosavo Civil War, Baghdad Iraq, NY NY Zionist Mossad CIA FBI Fed Terrorist Bomb Attack (9/11 Twin Towers Bldg 7), Oklahoma City Oklahoma child day care center Fed FBI False Flag bombing attack by bill clinton, Gaza Strip Palestine, etc etc




        Look these up , these fed plans are why???

        *** un agenda 21
        *** rex 84
        *** operation garden plot

        plenty of space in the country for all …

        state parks
        national forest
        wild life preserves
        national parks
        abandoned military bases
        abandoned factories malls warehouses etc etc

        if your cold or hot … dig … build a dug-out home!

        All you need is clean water (buy camping water purifier filter) and to keep a 98.6 body core temp … protect from sun exposure / heat exhaustion! You can survive “weeks” on just water!

        Cities are Death Traps! Move!!! Or make friends with a few Homeless Bums and move into the Tunnels beneath the cities!


      28. One good reason for leaving the city is to avoid the coming riots and race war. What is coming will make Watts look like chuck E Cheese. Riots are coming for many reasons, but I think economic reasons will be the biggest.

        Remember that the black panthers have laid down the gauntlet: The race conflict stemming from the Trayvon Martin incident is heating up. Armed Neo-Nazis are actively ‘patrolling’ the streets of Sanford to protect white people, and now the Black Panthers have taken their threats to a new level, even calling for the capture of George Zimmerman ‘Dead or Alive.’

        Video follows excerpt:

        “If you are having any doubts about getting suited, booted, and armed up for this race war that has never ended, let me tell you something… The thing that’s about to happen to these honkies, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people, these motherfuckin’ turtle people – it has been long overdue.”

        If you happen to be one of them honkies, or crackers, or pig, or pink people, or motherfuckin turtle people, you might just end up dead, for no reason other than your whiteness.
        Get out of the city, especially the big city. Try your best to get into a low risk area, maybe a place where you can plant a garden or have some animals. A place away from the interstate or main highways. She is right about having a good guard dog, one that barks like hell when a stranger comes around. Never brag about your guns or gold or stash of anything, word gets around.

        Get a conceal carry permit and learn to handle a gun. Also, never leave home without your knife. Watch your kids good.
        I just feel like hard times are close, much harder than we think. And when hard times hit, violent and senseless people will do just about anything. So don’t wait. Get the hell out of the city.

        • The root cause of all out civil war, that has been cleverly devised by TPTB for many years. Food! When it becomes scarce; by whatever means and by the many avenues, it will cause people to panic. After already being agitated and aggravated by the crap being stirred up because of the racial tensions, most people will blame the others that are of a different race,creed, or religion. Since our POS Prez signed away the majority of our wheat crops for the next three years, to China, we are one drought,one fuel shortage, or one stage away from everything culminating into such a scenario. When a person, used to having more food than they can eat, sees the pantry empty and their little ones crying from hunger, they become emotional. There is a “trigger” that is tied to the spinal cord directly from the stomach. When the stomach becomes empty, the trigger gets pulled and a message goes off in the brain…. FOOD! Need Food! Work for Food. If there is no way to work for Food, then comes depression and anxiety. Next comes anger and urgency! Time to Beg, Borrow, or Steal. Depending upon a persons common sense and character as to which way that person goes first. If there is no way to get food by either of these three methods, desperation sets in. A desperate person is a scary thing to encounter. Like a strung out, enraged, crack or meth addict, without any kind of logical thinking about them, they will lash out and kill anyone in their path to get a fix. Some would take their own life first, but most would go ballistic on just about everyone. City Dwellers, Prepare accordingly, and “Katy bar the doors!”

          • Most of us who are women have dieted – a lot. I have gone literally 10 days wihtout eating (I did still drink water of course). It doesn’t kill you to stop eating for awhile. It does make you listless and it would be hard to walk or work a lot.

            Males will be the ones who can’t take it. they have little experience with dieting and less body fat to begin with, especially if they are in good shape with a lot of muscle mass.

            They will go crazy and kill for food.

        • stan the idea is to take the war to the enemy. Open season on black alleycats.

      29. The story about neo-Nazis patrolling in Sanford has been debunked.

      30. By buggin youre separating from the heard making it easier for the wolves to slaughter ya…. its already happening in the farm areas…

      31. Our peaceful redneck neighborhood has been invaded! I knew trouble was coming when I saw them pull up in that Chevy Volt with the Obama 2012 bumper sticker. Sure enough, a family of big city liberals decided to move to the country and they’ve ended up RIGHT NEXT DOOR!
        I was bracing myself for a real nightmare. Expecting the drifting sounds of ‘smooth jazz’ to be interrupting my back porch banjo practice. Conversations over the fence about environmentalism just as I fire up my home made 30 hp diesel weedeater. And possibly even a few smart-alek remarks about animal rights when they saw me plinking at the coyotes and wild hogs down on the creek.
        As it turns out, the problem is not what they are doing, it’s what the locals are doing to THEM. It’s bothering my conscience. You see, I’ve actually started to kinda like these newcomers, even if their opinions on everything are somewhat screwy.
        Two days after they arrived, the Skinner brothers (just a couple of lazy, no-accounts) talked ’em into making a $30 donation to the ‘Community Benevolence Fund.’ Told them that everybody in town donates to it regularly. Even wrote out a fake receipt for ’em. Fact is, there’s no such fund. The Skinner boys just needed somebody to buy their beer and bait for the day.
        Then Hyram, who runs a small dairy, loaded up several sacks of stuff and sold it to them as ‘Bovine Aromatic potting soil.’ Charged them $12 a piece for a dozen 50lb sacks. And it wasn’t anything but manure that aint quite composted yet. Now the newcomers are buying more from him every week. It just don’t seem right to take advantage of peoples ignorance like that.
        And the last straw was when I heard the youngest Suggs boy, Ozzy, say he was gonna put a ‘welcome to the community’ butt-whippin on their son. Ozzy is 16 and looks like a lumberjack. All them Suggs boys do, and they’re mean as rattlesnakes. Kenny Jr, the new neighbors boy, is maybe 14 and looks like a young Barney Fife. Well I couldn’t let that happen to the kid, so I called his dad (Ken Sr) to come see me.
        We sat out on the back porch and I said, “Look, Ken, I really like you folks, in spite of yall bein’ Obama supporters. But you need to know, the locals have been taking advantage of you. And worse yet, one of the meanest kids in town is gonna pick a fight and whip your boy. Maybe you should rethink this whole idea of livin’ among the rednecks.”
        He cracked a wide smile and said, “Okie, I’ll let you in on a few secrets. We’ve been re-selling all that manure every weekend back in the city. At triple what I pay for it. And the Skinner boys are coming by soon to work off that $30 they got from me. Seems they were unaware that my second cousin is the states attorney general and he takes a dim view of counterfeit charities.”
        I grinned and picked up my banjo.
        He said, “Oh, and don’t worry about Jr. He’s been teaching karate ever since he got his black belt two years ago. He’s already whipped Ozzy’s older brother and says he’s looking forward to meeting every one of those boys….now are you gonna hog that whole jar of shine to yourself, or pass it over and play that banjo?”
        After a few songs, and a few sips, he confessed he hadn’t voted democrat in 20 years. The sticker was already on the car when he won it in a poker game. I’m beginning to think these folks are gonna fit right in here!

      32. While I totally agree that getting out of the city is the best thing to do , Do you think the rural areas will be any better off after all of those unprepared people get there? In some cases the almost empty city may actually be safer.

      33. NinaO and Daisy,

        There was another quake on the 11th day of a month, another HAARP coincidence off northern Sumatra?

        Y’all Beware!

        • September, 11th = World Trade Center Crash
          January, 11th = Haiti Earthquake
          March, 11th = Japan Earthquake
          April 11th= Sumatra

          Coincidence? I think not

          • Yes, it’s a coincidence.

            But I have better numbers: my first wife’s grandmothers both died on the same Friday the 13th in separate incidents back in 1988. My first wife died due to complications from kidney disease on Friday on the 13th of November in 1992. I believe that God was telling me when my wife would die by causing both her grandmothers to die on the same Friday the 13th.

            • @barn cat just a curiosity how much do the feds pay you to be a fed troll penis head???

        • @Yall Beware … I’m presently researching HAARP and GEO Physic Warfare! All evidence I’m diggin up is showing that … THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA ATTACKED JAPAN ON 3/11 WITH HAARP AND NUKES TO CAUSE THE EARTH QUAKE AND NUKE CAUSED TIDAL WAVES!




          “Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.”

          — United States Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, April, 1997


            Secretary Cohen made this statement at a conference on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction and U.S. Strategy in his official capacity as the US Secretary of Defense; thus this can be taken as an official position of the United States. Further he used the word “are,” not “could,” “might” or “maybe sometime in the future.” He further added: “It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts.” If the United States Secretary of Defense says that the earth and the sky have been turned into weapons, and are being used as such in present time, I believe we should take this statement very seriously.

            WEATHER WARFARE: The Military’s Plan to Draft Mother Nature is not “conspiracy theory.” This book has almost no theory and very little speculation. All the conclusions reached are the logical ones based on the presented facts. This is not “tabloid journalism.” This is straight scientific reporting at a layman’s level. I present solid evidence from military and scientific sources that intentional environmental modification (EnMod) is the 600-pound gorilla at the global warming debate that everyone is pretending isn’t there.


            • How HAARP fits the model of Space Shuttle Columbia’s destruction…

              The Feds Used HAARP to Destroy the Space Craft Columbia! As a Star Wars Test and a Warning to countries Around the World!


          • It also covers Defense Secretary Cohen’s claim that “Others … can … set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.” Starting with Nicola Tesla’s earthquake machine of the 1890s I trace the possibility of “earthquakes on demand” from the development of a “tsunami bomb” during World War II (as revealed by documents recently declassified by the New Zealand government), through Project Faultless which caused a massive earthquake in the Nevada desert after a high yield atom bomb was intentionally detonated on a fault line, to evidences of human initiation of several major quakes and the 2004 Christmas tsunami with “scalar” or other electromagnetic waves.

        • @Yall Beware … I’m presently researching HAARP and GEO Physic Warfare! All evidence I’m diggin up is showing that … THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA ATTACKED JAPAN ON 3/11 WITH HAARP AND NUKES TO CAUSE THE EARTH QUAKE AND NUKE CAUSED TIDAL WAVES!




          “Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.”

          — United States Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, April, 1997

      34. I live in a large City area. I must for now as my wife and I both have white collar jobs. We ARE fortunate to have family land, house and it is in the country. We have prepped a bit but have more work to do.

        We have the truck and a fast car for running interference. We are well prepared to run at the first sign of trouble. And we are fully capable of defending ourselves.

        We consider these things paramount to riding things out.
        Water, Food, Mediacal needs, defensive needs, currency of multiple means, energy, antiseptic among a muriad of other, but these are the main ones.

        We preserve our own food, we garden, we hunt, we fish, we trap…we can distill water, we will distill alcohol to fuel grade which surpasses antiseptic grade, we do it all with a unit I design and build specifically for emergency use.

        For the peeps that are concerned:
        Geo, your main condensor is rebuilt and pressure tested, should be an assemblt weekend coming up and if so testing and getting ready for pick-up.
        Bond, James…Yours has been slow but am working on it.
        Arkansas…almost ready as we discussed…
        Marine, boiler is ready and needs tweaking on condensors.
        Saltwater river, yours is same…

        I’m also doing a one gallon prototype for those that need a “stove top” model, but will have to test it, there is no reason it should not work..

        Mole sieve is in the works but peeps units take priority.

        I have two investors that are willing to finance for me to have a larger operation but for now am still doing day job from the paying bills perspective.

        I’ve planted grapes up country and they are climbing. Sugar cane is another story.

        We keep putting up dry goods in vacuum paks and I need to jerk more meat. I estimate we have 3-4 months so far.

        Going to relocate reloading and handloading presses to country along with supplys.

        WE have a plan, always have as we are subject to hurricanes and have used it.

        I’m used to the “bush” and can thrive there. I urge others to get practical experience.

        Practice your defensive capabilitys.

        I ran into a fellow yesterday at a junior high track meet. He was not a prepper…sad…so many may not make it and it is coming in one fashion or another.

        WE are also attempting to put together a trauma capable option in country, as we expect the worst. We also have radio capability for comms from a local.

        I talked to our tax attorney, asked him what’s the word on the street, he says everyone, himself included, is scared.

        Then I watched The Pianist on tube last night….told my wife, this is what we can expect if a certain group comes into ultimate power, they are almost there.
        In many places they are. Will it take government employees coming door to door to wake people up? OR do we think it can get that bad…history repeats itself. If we do not see a collapse, we will see tyranny. And for myself, I’d rather live in the jungle/woods free, than be subject to what may come and what has happened before…and I will give charity and aid, it may be selective, but also remember, we have to retain our humanity. If I have to hide somebody I will. IF I have to sew someone up, I will.

        God bless us all.

        Terry W. Reed

      35. So what is this SHTF disaster that hits every city at the same time and leaves these cities without armed police departments, where the National Guard has gone AWOL, where city dwellers turn on each other, looting, maiming, raping and killing there next door neighbors?

        True, after a complete economic collapse, I would prefer to be somewhere I can be self-sufficient. For those that live in the heart of a city, on the 20th floor of a high-rise apartment bldg. that poses more than a little problem. But for the millions that live in the suburbs survival is not only possible, I think it’s the best place to survive. I maintain there is safety in numbers. I don’t want to live where I have to remove my own appendix.

        For city dwellers, before you “move, move, move” and join the ranks of the unemployed, first determine if you have a friend or relative in the suburbs that will invite you to stay with them in case of a short-term emergency. As for a complete economic collapse, join with your suburban-dwelling friend in prepping their home for an extended stay.

        • One day after an F5 tornado slammed through joplin missouri killing 161 people and injuring far far more the Missouri national guard was caught looting.

          These are the people sent in to stop any looting and help find survivors, but they were caught looting and even though the military tried to cover it up it has gotten out. ARE you going to trust them to help you or run from them as possible predators???

      36. Being in the city will be more fun than a barrel of monkeys. It will be a laugh riot watching big fat ghetto types waddle around hootin and hollering. 🙂

        • And falling over with a suddenly-appearing little hole behind one ear…..

          Cities will be one big first-person shooter.

        • It will be especially fun in the heat of Summer in Vegas, Pheonix, Tucson and most cities in the Southwest when the power and water go out. Yes indeed some fun.

          • racist much?

      37. You need to leave long before it becomes a crisis situation. Leave when gas hits $10 a gallon. Or when hyperinflation starts to get going. If you see a loaf of bread go from $2 to $2.50 to $3 in a short time then it’s time to go. If you wait until the power grid goes down and the looting starts you’ll never get out alive.

        • And where exactly do you want these people to go? I get not being stuck in a big city, hence, I stay away from them and always will, but its a little bit late for most of these folks to just pull up stakes and start over without housing, savings, food and so on. I have been looking for a few remote acres in my neck of the woods for many months and they just are’nt that easy to come by.

      38. If you read this or other forums, you are already aware of the dangers living in the city pose. You have probably made the necessary arrangements to get out of dodge when the SHTF.

        I believe the best thing we can do is stay informed with as much information as possible on a daily basis. Yes, it may be overwhelming at times, but we will know when things are getting ugly long before the masses catch on. This will give the city folks who are aware and prepared ample time to bug out before Joe Sixpack has any clue.

        My folks and sister have enough confidence in me to know that if they get “the” phone call, GET OUT NOW!

      39. “A very great vision is needed and the man who has it must follow it as the eagle seeks the deepest blue of the sky” – Crazy Horse

      40. Good article. Lots of debate can be had about any plan or circumstance. What I am amazed at are the number of people who discuss their preps online here. I, for one, assume that DHS/FBI/NSA has already logged my IP, so as for me, I’ll just be meekly submitting myself to the neighborhood FEMA camp. As soon as I finish this book (“Hedge Fund Managers Are People Too”). Nice to have Spring here, eh?

        • NG: Are you reading that book too?! Chapter 7, Setup Your Hedge Fund Offshore is kind of short but I like the list of “havens”.

          Panama is next to Columbia, I like the elevation and climate of Bogata, and the women are fantastic!

          Where did I hide my passport? 🙂

      41. I cannot agree more. I have a brother and sister-inlaw living in Atlanta and they have major concerns. Since he is only a year from retirement and works from home they are looking to move to a small town usa or country.
        read the book “One second after” . Its fictional but was written for awareness. visit my site I’m in the process of building a site to give information and tips.







        • Realist – They sure didn’t get out into the suburbs!

          When (if) this time comes, we need to take the war to the enemy.

          • What’s with all this “war” crap?
            No one benefits from war.

      43. Hurricanes do not affect the entire US. Help can be brought in and the damage sorted and people temp fed and housed. A big difference to a national event which the US has never experienced. Imagine hurricanes throughout the entire US and that might be more like a SHTF scenario that many are expecting.

      44. I gotta tell ya, I did the whole storage locker thing for 3 years, FINALLY, moved out to the boonies of Eastern Oregon, it was a hell of an experience, painful, expensive, hard. – I WOULDNT TRADE IT FOR ANYTHING! – I AM SO GLAD I DID IT, as are my wife and kids. Its coming folks, please, get ready, do something EVERY DAY, even if its one small thing. I do at LEAST ONE THING, EVERY DAY. ONE THING, that gets me closer to being self sufficient or meeting some need I think I may have in the future. ITS INCREDIBLE what you can accomplish if you approach it this way. Learn to USE YOUR HEAD AND EYES, we are SURROUNDED by FREE RESOURCES and OPPORTUNITIES and SITUATIONS that if you just REACH OUT AND GRAB, will make you and your family safer and more self sufficient down the road. Keep your eyes open, look for opportunities, CRAIGS LIST!!!, Garage Sales, DUMPS for that matter. When you’re at the gas station, BUY a few extra lighters! Zippo, BIC, Zippo Flints / Fluid / Wicks etc… Learn to better use resources and not waste things. We WASTE SO much. Change your MIND, and your LIFE will FOLLOW !!! Good luck all my fellow preppers out there.
        – Namaste! Semper Fi!

      45. “put a fireplace to use”? i found out just how much heat a fireplace puts out when my furnace went out in the middle of a cold spell. it took a week to get it fixed and running my fireplace ALL DAY raised the temp approximately 5 degrees(outside temps approx. 30 degrees). fireplaces don’t work to heat a house….turn off your heat sometime for a couple days to see just how much heat you get. unless you have a blower for it there won’t be as much as you might think. great article otherwise.

      46. Lighting, Solar powered yard lights. There weather proof. dont require batteries and they are reusable every night. I keep two for each room on my home, one for each bath room. They are the type with the 2×3 solar panel on top. They are a one time cost of around ten bucks each. Good Luck, God Bless

        • this is a line of solar lights developed for use in third world countries

          the S10 is 1/2 watt so one will give area lighting in a small room,enough to keep you from tripping over things
          you can get them for about $20 a piece

          the S250 is much brighter and goes for about $45
          it will also charge a cell phone with the included adapters

          I have a number of these and really like them
          great for camping also

          • Wal Mart has some really good garden lights that are solar powered for around ten dollars. they work really well and having a few around is good planning. Just keep them in a bright room for keeping them charged. Use when needed. Great for working in the garden at night.

      47. It will all be fun till the power goes off.

        Then its every man for himself.

        We prepared folks are ready, and in my case waiting.

        I won’t be waiting for someone to get to me front door. As soon as you climb over my fence,, its on!

        • No one is going to climb over your fence. They’ll set your house on fire and wait for you to climb over on the other side of your own fence. Then the game is over for you.
          Consider stocking up on fire extinguishers.

          • Consider getting to know your neighbors and getting to know who the bad types are so they don’t get a chance to burn your house, you’ve plinked ’em first.

            • This article is in regards to Urban/Suburban environment. In these two environments your neighbors will be subjected to the same threat as you are. The transient gangs WILL burn your house and those of your “neighbors”. Don’t kid yourself about being able to defend your house in Suburbia – you will be burned.

              You’d need to set a perimeter with sentries and outer patrols and have them rotate on 24-hour basis. Do you have that kind of neighbors who you can trust your life with? What if your neighbors are women, children and elderly? No a chance for you to survive.

              Consider reading some SF operator manuals on urban warfare. There are lot of good manuals written. You will do a LOT of evasion and move from place to place if you’re to stay alive, especially in Urban/Suburban areas.

      48. Seriously? About the only thing you’re going to find when you bug out to the woods in a SHTF scenario is a lot of bullets flying your way and a few banjo’s providing ambiance to your rape scene.

        Articles like this are full of naive notions that are going to get good folks killed in rather bad times.

      49. I have a BIG issue with Jessica’s #3 under Bug-Out-gear: There’s really NO safe way to transport additional 40 gallons of fuel unless it is an auxiliary tank made of steel, positioned under the truck flatbed and intended for diesel fuel only.
        She did not elaborate on the safe method, but she should have done that.
        Any collision with vehicle loaded with steel Jerry cans will ignite it like a space rocket. Not to mention any direct bullet hits.
        Auxiliary tanks are available but cost an upwards of $2000 to get them installed, which makes an idea of in-vehicle fuel storage a whole lot more dangerous and a lot less affordable.

        • I had a problem with that too–geeze, a tank in my SUV gets me 400 miles–who’d be going further in a SHTF scenario??

      50. Because im not afraid to die, im just going to assume anyone who leaves their place and stomps upon mine isnt either…..

        • Grandpa, as usual you present a profound idea in just a few words. Hats off to you!

      51. Where in the world did people flee the cities besides from war? They did not in Argentina. People will stay where they live. Leaving to the “country” is not an answer. It is a death sentence. I know of no farmer who will let people move onto his property.

        • Agreed. I believe this is what Ferfal says about his experience.

      52. Cities?!??!? Shouldn’t this pertain to ANY situation where the supplies and items it takes to survive are outnumbered by the persons needing said items to survive? If something goes down, and you can’t pull a ‘Jeremiah Johnson’….which most of us cannot, you are basically screwed.

      53. im telling you that I think that fires will be set in cities and they will be burning everything down thats not brick. think about wildfires in forrests or if a house is on fire in a small neighborhood it will compound with no firefighters around.

        • I bet you are right on, about the fires being set in the big cities. There will be desperate people just about everywhere, and those desperate people will either get help from you out in the woods, or they will probably come back later (out of sight and firing range), and set an up-wind fire towards your place. Solution, either get them before they get you or make sure all brush and ground debris is cleared back from buildings at least 100 yards. Keep plenty of open top 55 gal rain barrels for emergency water.

      54. Other than the Amish, the Latter Day Saints are probably one of the best prepared groups in America.

      55. Any thoughts on the best propellant available on the market that can be obtained where pepper spray is illegal. Ie, a can that sprays some sort of harsh cleaning product a decent distance. Or a container that can be used to fill with home made pepper spray.

        • Wasp and hornet spray and a lighter make a rather remarkable flame thrower

          • Wasp and hornet spray works fine by itself too. You just got confused, that’s all, the bad guy(s) looked like a wasp or a hornet. Must be the stripey sweater they were wearing….

        • Wasp and Hornet spray. One shot in the face will put um down and they will not be getting up. Shoot them in the crotch with it and watch them run.

        • Brake cleaner from auto supply stores. Doubles as a wasp killer. With lighter you have your small scale improvised flame thrower.

      56. @Marc Salvo

        Just a few ideas for up coming articles.
        1. What are your plans should Obama get re-elected?
        2. The U.N. Small Arms treaty being voted on this July 2012
        3. The info provided by Yuri Bezmenov ex-KGB spy and how it rings true with current events. Thanks

      57. I just saw on the local news where they have arrested and charged George Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder. The FDLE caved and this will only add fuel to the fires the Obama crowd are fanning. This is the kind of crap I think will pick up in the coming months. This summer is gonna be a powder keg.

        Is there a sight where I can donate to the George Zimmerman defense fund? Anybody know?

          • Thanks Tom.

            • because its ok to kill 17 year old kids walking home from the store???? Whats wrong with you?

        • That’s what HOMELESS people are now, REFUGEES. And it is indeed a very bad place to be because your friends, family, etc will turn their backs on you. And it’s very hard, as a refugee, to get anyone to believe you have useful skills, or are trustworthy. Very. Very. Hard. People will consider you an alcoholic, druggie, bum. The only thing you have that you can use are “street skills” like being able to beg, play a musical instrument, collect cans, etc. There’s a very good chance you’ll be stuck doing menial work as “the honest wino” for the rest of your (short) life.

          • Not often I agree with DT but he’s very right on this one. The UK government refused the voluntary assistance of qualified iranian vetinarians during the foot & mouth epidemic despite a massive manpower shortage due to their refugee status. I have farming family members who are still furious about this as they lost stock they might not had if these men been allowed to help.

            A refugee has a status lower than low and DT has been quite polite – often they are considered sub-human and treated as such by the general population. It’s an incredibly vulnerable position to be in.


        “At the beginning, actually right before everything started during my meetings with my friends and colleagues at work we discussed the deteriorating situation, and pretty soon I found myself faced with important decision: is it worth to send my kids to some more “secure” region or to some relatives to neighboring country, or keep them with me, and wait what happens.

        I never had question am I going to leave this place, I found it normal to stay in my city, with husband, in my house. Looking back now I know it was big mistake.”

      59. If you want to know about urban survival, talk to someone who actually knows about urban living… and not rural folks who are afraid of the big bad city they see in movies.

        First of all, this idealistic country life is a myth. Rural America of 2012 has a huge problem of welfare dependence, meth addiction, etc. Furthermore, more farmers and rural folk are nowhere near as self-sufficient as they imagine. Virtually every farm I have ever visited was 100% dependent on fuel to power farm machinery, 100% dependent on modern public-works for their irrigation and water… most grow mono-culture crops such as massive amounts of nothing but corn. Shit is gonna go to hell pretty fucking bad in rural America.

        Furthermore, when food shortages become a problem, who do you think is going to have their property seized by the government? Your farm is a national strategic resource. The Obama administration has already signed the legislation that in a “national emergency” the government can seize your farm… and believe me, they will. The government doesn’t care about a condo or suburban home, even if you have 12 months of Mountain House hidden away… that is way below their radar.

        Also, do you people know how easy it is to lay low and not be noticed in a place with lots of people? People where clothes that looks like foliage to hide in the woods… if you want to hide in a large group of people you are the camouflage. In the city, there is just too many people to give even an ounce of attention to each individual ones – Where as in a small town or rural area, everyone knows your business. There is no secrets in a small town. Ordering prepper supplies? – Your local mailman or UPS guy knows, and is going to talk about it to all your neighbors. Your friendly local guy who knows everyone installing your new generator… or that new cistern… how is his opsec?

        Have you ever lived in an apartment building? My condo had two feet thick concrete walls and ceilings, 300 degrees of visibility. There was a raging fire in the place above mine, and it had no effect whatsoever on my place. A lot of buildings in the city are concrete and rebar and built like fortresses.

        There are challenges to the city, just like there are challenges anywhere. If you feel more comfortable in the country, by all means prepare to stay in the country… if cities make you uncomfortable it probably means you don’t have the skills to survive in the city. But people who aren’t from the city, who don’t live in cities, who don’t have the urban skill set, shouldn’t presume to be giving advice to urban dwellers. Just because *YOU* would have a hard time surviving in the city, doesn’t mean that everyone would have a hard time in the city. For some of us, our chances are way better in cities than they would ever be in the country.

        The only thing in this article that I would say is somewhat accurate is the gun control issue (for some people… some big cities have no restrictions on guns… The city I live in I am legally allowed to own whatever I want). But seriously, if you are an average law abiding citizen the chances of your house being searched are next to nill… Urban gun-control is pretty much on the honor system – the cops don’t bother you unless you are acting like a criminal.

        • 2 foot thick concrete condo walls. wow.


      60. Some things said in the article are true, some aren’t. It’s possible to stay in the city if you do it right, not that I live in the city. Make it look like your home has already been destroyed and looted. Determine which direction you would prefer to be attacked from, and make it hard to be attacked from the other directions. If you have neighbors who are ready too, make plans on how to help each other. That includes making each other aware you’re there to help, plans on how to attack if someone is attacking from a certain direction. Cease fire signals and so on, so you don’t shoot each other. And remember light can be seen for a long way. And the same for smoke. So aim your light to the ground or use green light if possible. And use gasifiers so there is no smoke or smell from a fire. And if it gets this bad, there is basically no law, so booby traps aren’t against the law. Just some things to think about. Plus these things apply to any location.

      61. It could be tough no matter where you are located; well, except maybe the millionaire type that has already turned Jeremiah Johnson and has gotten so far off the grid that the relatives don’t know where he is. They are rare. One thing for sure, and that is when the utilities start going out, people living in a heavily populated area will run out of clean water and food; especially those with small children, will make a run for the country. There are lots of people living in big cities that are survivors, but just don’t know it yet. In a post apocalyptic scenario the gangs of thugs and lowlifes will rule the cities. Yea, there will be pockets of good people that have banned together and may have food and defense mechanisims to survive for a while, but what happens when they are getting low and no supplies are available? They head for the country. Trees and fresh water sounds pretty good when all you see is concrete and trash and all you smell is disease and death. This is, of course, a hollywood depiction of a worst case scenario, but it could happen. I say prepare for the worst and hope for the least worst-case scenario. I said it at least twice before on this site; make a plan for that worst-case and try to find a way to make a cache somewhere within walking distance just outside the city. Just how big does the city and the cache have to be? That’s where the common sense has to come in to play on an individual decision making process. At the very least have some way to have something to give you hope for an escape if needed. I just keep seeing all those people stranded at the stadium/Katrina ordeal and the piles of filth and depression. How good did the authorities handle that little event? I think it takes a fool or a person with no alternative, to completely rely on the help of FEMA or local authorities. In a major catastrophic event, their gonna be too busy trying to save their own ass.

      62. Kudps Ms. Hooley and bravo SHTF Plan:

        Outstanding practical advice for every day.

        If our great leader gets 4 more years we will all be starving and freezing in the dark.

        Failing to prepare is preparing to fail:

        Right on – WRITE ON!

        Cordially, [email protected]

        • You really think that the result of all the apocalyptic scenarios are all going to be caused by Obama? Wow, that’s simple.

      63. I packed up my wife and young son and fled the “big city” life, back in the 70’s. At that time, gas had gotten up to .50 cts a gallon! I’ve never regretted the decision. Life out here in “the sticks” has never been a “walk in the park”, with taxes and cost of gas, heat, electric,food, clothing etc. all based on what they go for in the cities, but most folks still working for about the same pay ($7 to $15/hour) that they got back in the 70’s. I just never thought, back then, that it would take this long to all come apart.
        Many people move out here, and then, disalusioned, and broke, leave again in a short time. The “land brokers” keep making money, selling the same land over and over.
        It may take another twenty years, before “TSHTF” (I don’t believe it will, but I’ve been wrong for 40 years,and counting) Can you, and those who depend on you, stick it out that long?


        • Wrong! If you were a true survivor, you would know that 1) The earth is ABUNDANT with edible, protein/fat infused foliage 2) 1 week long living arrangements can be created within 3-6 hours. 3) Long term cold living shelter can be created within 1-2 days 4) A water filter will last you thousands of gallons (before you make your own).

      65. The key to bugging out of town is to take the less traveled roads. In Phoenix, most city dwellers tend to stick to what they know, the freeway and close roads parallel to it. I live in the suburbs just on the edge of the city, so I know all those yahoos will head my way, but my guns are probably bigger than theirs 😉 Every so often I try out less traveled streets and roads. I’m also going through trail maps to find off-road trails to head out the desert or woods, without hitting pavement, or by only crossing it. There are hundreds of avenues out of Phoenix, but I’d say at least 90% or more of the population is not familiar with any of them besides the paved ones.

      66. I have lived in all different types of places, from the inner city to the areas most would call Egypt. One thing I have always done is to explore as much as possible my surroundings, get to know all the roads, and important infrastructure areas of whatever city I have lived near.

        I am new to prepping, but with the results of this past election, I believe that having a plan is a very necessary thing, and so I am starting to gather information so that my husband and I can do this.

        Both my husband and I are pretty good with being like McGiver, we can do most anything with stuff that is around us, and I am great at finding resources for stuff that we need.

        One thing we plan on doing is to use horses if its not possible to escape the area by standard methods, car, boat etc. Our dogs will carry packs with supplies as well, and if we cannot get horses, there is always bicycles, whatever we need we will figure out. One thing I do as I get ideas, I write them down in a school notebook, this comes in handy when one wants to put things into action

      67. So yea people in the city are screwed for the most part it is what it is.  As a prepper I am lucky enough to be a veteran I got out of the military 3 years ago and have been prepping since I have 10 families and we all live within a half mile radius.   Eight of the families I served in Afghanistan and Iraq with and we are prepping… We have set up a base if you will almost the same as some of us spent 15 months reporting too known as Qalat… We have a lot of weapons ammo food and water we still work drills on the weekend.  And if anyone thinks they’re coming to take what we have they are sadly mistaken.  Five of us served as seals… We are ready and have stocked enough food to feed our families for over a year then 2 of the families where petroleum guys so they can filter fuel and water.  And one guy is a doctor and we also have bomb shelters we have spent a lot of money and time getting everything together.  And it helps I was raised on a farm an we are all military trained and all recent war veterans.  Only the strong will survive.  HOAH!

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