Bugging Out vs. Hunkering Down

by | Jan 19, 2013 | Emergency Preparedness | 459 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    This article has been contributed by M.D. Creekmore of The Survivalist Blog.

    The very idea of leaving the security of your home to “bug out” to the woods has never sat well with me – In nearly every instance it’s better to hunker down or “bug in” than to bug out. I mean, why leave the safety and familiar surroundings of your home, for the open and unforgiving wilderness.

    For many people this is their first line of preparation against disaster, unfortunately, most will end up joining the multitude of other refugees freezing in a cave and eventually end up dead or wards of whatever government is still functioning.

    I live in a fairly safe area and have prepared to survive at home and can conceive of only a few scenarios that would force me to leave. Even then, I would go to an out-of-state relatives house with whom, I have a pre-arranged agreement, where if need be he can come to my place or I to his after a disaster.

    I know what you’re thinking “what about an end of the world as we know it” type event, well if such an event were to take place, there would be no 100% safe place for most of us, and really do you think you would be better of making a go of it in the open wilderness as opposed to hunkering down at home.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we should never bug out to the wilderness; we should indeed keep all our options open, what I am saying is that there are better ways to survive most disasters than heading into the bush.

    You need to weigh the risks of bugging out vs. hunkering down and make your final decision based on logic and type of threat. That’s the way decisions should be made, unfortunately many people when making plans for survival side with emotion (that emotion being to run and hide) instead of the more tried and true form of decision-making known as logic.

    Relying on emotion instead of logic can make for some interesting adventures; however without sound planning beforehand those adventures are likely to be sort lived. For example, I recently asked a fellow in his late 30’s what he would do if disaster struck his area.

    He thought for a moment and said he would gather his family and all the food, guns and ammunition he could find and head for the mountains that lay some seventy-five miles to the north of his home.

    Depending on the type of disaster, his “plan” might work short term for a lone survivor or a small group of individuals in good physical condition with proper gear and mind-set. But he is a new father and his wife is one of those that think missing an appointment at the nail-salon is the end of the world as she knows it.

    Making matters worse he has no outdoor survival training or skills other than watching reruns of Less Stroud’s “Survivorman” and camping at a national park campground with all the utilities and hookups. Why he thinks he can survive off the wilderness while dragging his family along, I don’t know. He isn’t thinking logically.

    His decision was based on emotion and as a result if he ever has to put his plan to the test in the real world his family will likely suffer or die because of his decision and “Red Dawn” thinking. Unfortunately, this batman in the boondocks mentality is and will continue to be the chosen survival plan for many who haven’t thought it through.

    When making survival plans for your family you have to honestly weigh the risks of your decision based on logic. In almost every disaster scenario, it is better to stay put (bugging in) or head to a pre-arranged safe place at an out-of-town relatives or friends house than it is to head to the woods to eat twigs and pine bark.

    For most people an evacuation bag is a better choice than a bug out bag. An evacuation bag should contain the gear necessary to get you from point A to point B, whereas a bug out bag (in most cases) is geared more toward wilderness survival. I have both, but admittedly my bug out bag is an option of last resort.

    Knowing when to go is much more important than the contents of your survival pack or even where you will go. You don’t want to jump and run before you need too, but you don’t want to wait too long or you may never reach your destination.

    If you wait for the authorities to give the order to evacuate it may already be too late. The roads leading to safety could be blocked and impassable by motor vehicle and walking to your destination may be impossible or too dangerous to attempt.

    On the other hand if you jump and run in response to every potential disaster you’ll soon deplete your resources and the patience of your family, school and employers.For example, say you live in an area prone to tornadoes like Texas and you evacuate to Arkansas every time the clouds turn dark or the wind shakes the leaves. You would literally stay on the road. But waiting until the twister is at your door will put you at an unnecessary risk.

    There are no easy answers; all you can do is weigh the dangers of bugging out vs. hunkering down depending on the situation and logic. You have to consider the nature of the threat and ask yourself which gives the best chance of survival with regards to the type of disaster you are facing.

    Then, there are times when evacuation is a no brainer, say you live on the Florida coast and a category 5 hurricane has been predicted to hit that coast within twenty-four hours, in that case you would be stupid not to go now, even if you have no prearranged bug out location…

    On the other hand let’s say there is snow storm heading your way and you have food, water, heat and a way to cook even if the power goes out for an extended amount of time then you are probably better off to hunker down where you are.

    In my opinion the bugging out vs. hunkering down debate is moot because it all comes down to the type of threat, your personal situation and preparedness level – in the end you’ll have to make that decision based on that knowledge and common sense.

    Do you plan to “bug out” or “bug in” please let us know in the comments below…


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      1. My concern is SHTF and I’m not able to get home.

        • Some people have the “BOB’s”, I have my BIB (Bug in Bag), ALWAYS sitting in the back seat, Small pack with all the essentials to get me home in case of a Natural or Manmade Event. I’m never more than 75 miles from home so I figure if I have to abandon my vehicle I’ll try and “walk/jog” home in less than 24 hours, 48 max, but have supplies for 72 hours for most conditions. After that, “external” forces possessing the “natives” might get mighty unpredictable.

          Otherwise, “Hunker Down” at home “sweet” home.

          • Youre never gonna make it home. Extra gas cans and fuel stabilizer.

            • Forget what you’ve heard… This is the real story on Nazi Germany and gun control

              “The Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime.

              After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation.”

              “So, we learn that because the Weimar Republic was hated by voters for having signed the Treaty of surrender (which the military that had started the war and lost it had refused to sign), the Weimar government was hated. So, it banned guns.”

              “Gun registration was part of a program of gun control. “In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.”

              “As everyone with any knowledge of German history in the 1920s knows, the Nazis ignored this law. In 1933, they took over. They suppressed all dissent. How? Because they were armed, while the rest of the population wasn’t. Is there cause and effect here?”

              (To understand the Left’s position on gun control, watch the video linked to in the article: The Absurdity of ‘Gun Free Zones’)

              The Daily Crux

          • EA; Not to be pissy but even Rangers can’t do 75 miles in even 3 days (72 hrs). 25 miles in a single day is brutal, much less 3 days in a row. You might want to stash a bicycle in the trunk as part of your “get home” preps. Of course riding a bike in such circumstances has it’s own set of negative circumstances to deal with, but it could turn 3-5 days on foot into 1-2 days on a bike. This goes to Creekmore’s point of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS by people who don’t have a clue as to what REAL survival is. While you may not have to go 75 miles, anything over 10-15 miles is not an easy task and the reality of it is that MOST people are not in good enough shape to negotiate even that little distance. Try it. Put on your tennis shoes tomorrow, drink plenty of water and carry plenty too, then walk just ten miles (or attempt to)without a load and see how well you can do that. If you haven’t done it, don’t assume that you can. The military standard is 10 miles per day with a combat load…that’s it, 10 miles a day. And these are people that are ostensibly in good physical condition. Food for thought.

            • In 1976 I hiked 43 miles from Tel Aviv to Haifa in 36 hours with a 17 pound pack. It took me about 2 months to recover.
              During Desert Storm we carried 100 pound packs and were lucky if we could make 10 miles a day.

            • Tripod: I have walked 20 miles in about 8 hours on several occasions but that was on city streets in good daylight and safe conditions. And I did not do it on back to back days. The day after my walk was a recovery day. It would be very difficult but not impossible to do 2 days in a row of 20 miles. I can not see 3 in a row simpley because of muscle fatigue and blisters. Day 3 would be 5-10 miles or nothing. My only pack was a light daypack with a change of socks and water. I agree that a desk jocky should not expect to accomplish this, especially for several days in a row. I enjoy walking and hiking so my muscles and feet are used to this. Do not under estimate the effect on your feet or how that WILL impact your mileage.

            • We did 72 mile in 24 hrs with full combat gear, with breaks in basic training… if your family is at the other end of the trip in deep shtf, then you could do the same. That was not national guard basic training though;) Keep the faith TXL!

              • Sorry PP – I was in Basic in 1983 at Ft. Sill. I was National Guard. Guardsmen go to active Army schools – there is no “national guard basic training”. I went to Enlisted Basic, OBC and Flight School at Rucker with Active Army. The requirements are the same.

                Let’s talk road marches. The most we did in basic was about 15 miles with full load. Took the better part of a day and the company was spent, feet were blistered and shredded. Fat boys nearly died. I don’t see basic trainees able to do 72 miles in 24 hours.

                Add to it that if you are attempting a march home because shtf conditions are so bad, then you aren’t race walking down the highway. You will be sneaking and peaking through woods and bushes. Whatever time you thought you were going to make, multiply by 4. If nighttime, forget it.

                • In 1964 My battalion did a 25 miles force march with full pack and it took the better part of the day to complete. 2/3 of the battalion didn’t make it, they had to be driven the remainder of the march. I was 19 and in good shape and was one of the few that made it, and it took its toll on me.

              • 72 miles in 24 hours huh? Full combat gear huh?

                Well, that’s absolute BS.

                That would require moving at an average of 3 mph nonstop the entire time.

                No freaking way. Except maybe in your dreams.

                • Branefrees, your right, I spent 12 yrs in the Army and never heard of anyone walk 72 miles in 24 hours with full combat gear. You could not do that on a horse in 24 hours. Full combat gear maybe ten miles on paved rd. In the mountains no more than 5 per day. If there is any doubt…………….try it!!

                  • People backpacking the Appalachian Trail, routinely hike 20-25 miles a day carrying 20-30+ lbs on their back, over mountain trails.

            • Excellent point. I work 7 miles from home in a sedentary office job. I don’t have a regular workout routine, and I am not in the worlds best (or worst) shape. I believe, based upon my past experience, that I could walk that distance and get home within a few hours. I would expect that it would take some time to recover. I keep a GHB in the car with 3 days food, water purification, and shelter (tarp). Mind you I shouldn’t need most of that gear for the walk, but I sure would hate not having it…

            • TripodXL; you are correct that most people are not in physical shape to accomplish this. But not quite correct on the fact that Rangers can’t do 75 in 3 days. A point being,
              The International Four Day Marches in Nijmegen. I don’t claim to be able to do so any longer but at one time did do the 50k each day for 4 days with limited gear. Used to to 25 in one day with full gear much more often than i liked. Please dont’ think that I am attacking your post, just dusting off some old thoughts and adding them to the equation. Given the right motivation you will be suprised at what can be accomplished.

              Have an uneventful day.

              • G3; But you’re 1 out of 100,000; 1 out of how many Rangers and GBs, navy Seals and D-boys….you make my point. Best Wishes.

            • I did train for it but……..at 24 years old (2004)I decided to go to Europe with a buddy (God rest his soul), and only had 2000$ after airfare. We had just left the Canadian Infantry (2 RCR) 6 months prior. Everyone said we were insane. Our packs weighed 55 -50 pounds and we each carried our own tent and supplies. We walked across Scotland and way up it then most of Belgium and Germany on foot camping in the woods (Highly illegal)and eating out of cans.

              We walked 35-40 kilometers a day…so say 21 -24 miles. Plus setting tents dealing with trouble and general drunkenness. In the end we went 2 months on 2000$ each when the Canadian dollar was at 67 cents American! A cool trip but only for the young and the key is I trained and trained and trained. Every night walking the 10 miles before the trip with good food and rest and I had a lot of time.

              Both of us being naturally fit made a big difference as well as young and stupid plays a big part. 10 miles a day for a combat soldier is weak. We have the law that woman can frontline here but not many at all will and those that can shine. I just saw your law will change there so no big up and arms if Canada can be a litmus test. The type of gal that makes the training shits with the rest of the soldiers anyways.

              I guess my point is you are right but training means everything and in todays world it’s hard to keep that level up. A simple blister can derail the best plans of men (and mice)!

              Peace out America and a great website!

              Oh yeah , when I came back home I was hyper exhausted slept 2.5 days straight and took 3 weeks to recover.

              “Rejoice in thy Youth!”

              • Or some wicked smart Ancient Greek fellow! Can’t remember……

                • I was 26!!!!! Oh no!

                  • I should say we went one month at that pace with the odd rest day and after that caught trains and marched intermittently and ended up in Budapest as drunk skunks camping at the airport and begging family for cash but still we went over one month and a bit walking like that…pretty hard core. It can be done , I plan to do it in 2014 albeit with much more cash.

          • Throw a bicycle in your car, that can get you a 50 mile range eazy for even older people if they take their time. you get what im saying here.

          • I thought about bugging out vs. bugging in and then I watched Operation Restopo on netflix. Those poor Afgan hill people are about as far out of harms way as you can imagine. Watch it, and referse the situation a bit. You lice out in the boonies where no one cares about your existance then next thing you know you have a NATO, U.N. or other force setting up camp in the nearest national park or forest service facility conducting government business. Moral of the story; you still are better off where you are if you are prepaired and can’t haul all your prepper stuff with you. We all have to go some time.

          • Back in the late 80’s speaker of the house Jim Wright was on trial for ethics violations. I was listening to the trial live on the radio as I was driving to work. While being questioned by the ethics committee , he made a comment along the lines of “If the American people knew of our contingency plans for a rebellion, they would have our heads” the trial went into immediate recess. I believe he was trying to blackmail the court to let him off easy. I’ve tried to find the quote of what Wright had said but it seems as though it’s been erased from history.

            If the government is behind the reason for bugging in or out, you can bet it’s going to be hell and a lot of people are going to die.

          • I’d work your vehicle into every last mile you could to get home, then, they do make fold up bicycles.

            Another option is a small tool kit complete with slidehammer and other tools. You’d be surprise how easy some vehicles are to jack out or force the ignition switch. (…forget “hot wiring” unless you find something pre-1975.)

            Remember, in an extreme emergency, anything goes. I would never hurt someone or put them in danger if I could avoid it, but, an unused vehicle that could get me home with minimal fuss would be taken without guilt and returned later, if possible.

        • Ditto!!!

          That’s why I keep a Henry AR-7 w/ 200rds of “stingers”…a 9mm w/ 50 + 4mags…and a mil-spec back-pack w/ solo tent & everything I need for 5 days…plus topo-maps/compass & water filter.

          I will make it home to my better 1/2 & grand-babies!

          Sam’s E&E course…is/was a good one!

          • @ Rick, EA Gunsmith:

            I wholeheartedly agree. Fact is, I already bugged out several years ago when I moved to South Carolina from my former home in a New England state (or as I like to put it, moving from one of the slave states to one of the free states). Where I am right now, there’s virtually no way I’d make a run for it, since the chances that any other place in this state might be better is overwhelmed by all the problems attendant to being a refugee.

        • You left out the most important part of decision making. Never, never do anything without prayer and you had better know the voice of the Holy Ghost in your life. I have been delivered from death and from those who wished to harm me many, many, many times. I truly feel sorry for those who do not have God’s comfort. We have nothing to fear if we truly know him as Our Lord and Savior. All phony hypocrites will not make it! Do not fear death! Every word of God will soon come into play for real. God bless all the brothers and sisters.

          • @Ike: Excellent! Well said. We don’t focus on these threads on the will of God in our lives enough. Maybe it is His will that we lay down our lives as those who have been in His service have since the beginning. Its about knowing when and where we should be and what we should be doing.

            • @ SterlingSilver… even though I understand the Biblical perspective you’re taking concerning “laying down our lives”… I can’t say that particular thought applies to me… especially when it comes to ‘bugging out’ in order to stay ahead of those who would ‘hope’ I stay put because ‘they’ know where I am and by staying put, I become a sitting target… consider Waco, Ruby Ridge and the Alamo just to name a few,… what do all these places have in common(?)… they were all a fixed fortification – no matter how well built and stocked an enclosure is – it will eventually be overcome… especially in this day and age of drones, RPG’s, and the like… yes indeed, your home is a better place to be in the face of a lot of natural disasters, but if you’re thinking of using it as a ‘shield’ against the PTB… don’t even hesitate… stay light, stay mobile… stay on the move.

              This article is asking a question of it’s readers that simply can’t be answered with a one line response because every situation has a volume of variables … the military says it best: improvise, adapt, overcome… maximum utilization of available recourses… and in the case of the PTB being on the list of disasters to prepare against, I don’t plan on laying down my life for them… every day I live is one more day I piss them off simply by being alive… I think God will honor that attitude… if He doesn’t, well, I’m sure we all things in our lives that we’ll be accountable for… in any case, things are about to get exciting…

            • Jesus loves you- go to the church of your choice, and wait!

              • Cool handle!

            • No greater love
              Dum ceteri vivant

          • There is violence in your words. I walked away from fear based dark ages philosophy years ago. Your infantile regression and infantile aggression is too much for my sensibilities.

            • What??? OK… no more drugs for you! If you talking about God’s love being violent, then WOW, you seriously need to open the Bible and read it! Sad, so very sad!!

              And he’s one of the “zombies” we will have to deal with when the SHTF — ain’t that a great thought?!?

              • Do you believe in a zombie apocalypse? Were living in one.

                • No. Of course not. It was for those here who do. It was a joke! 😉

                  • I know. Were surrounded by zombies all day long.

                  • When any kind of tradgedy hits, many people turn into zombies. Its pretty amazing. I’ve assisted in a couple auto accidents and fires and people just sit around in shock while things blow up, burn down and bleed out.

                    No, Elsenkreutsz is right. We’re living in one. Its not quite like the movies, though. They don’t want your brains but they do act like zombies many times.

                    Even at work, I deal with them. If things don’t go as expected, they “zombulate” and there they are. They don’t know what to do, can’t think, can’t function. I’ve seen people that ran into technical problems with their computers just set and stare at the screen for hours not know what to do.

                    Our world is full of people that cannot adapts. When tradgedy strikes, they implode into quivering, zombie like, two legged liabilities. I thank The Creator most every day that I am not like this and I try to help people not be like this. I think our society (through entertainment) promotes this.

                    …and if the economy implodes (and its course is set for implosion) you’ll see this sort of behaviour. Many people will just set and do nothing until they dehydrate or starve. Normalcy bias will be the disease that kills most of them. “Help is on the way.” is not a phrase you need to memorize because help might not be on the way.

                  • Walking Dead returns Feb. 10.. I’d rather have a zombie event than a massive EMP event.

                • Braaaaaiiiiins!

              • Hmm… If I remember my Bible correctly (Protest and Mormon priesthood leadership included before I opened my eyes), God wiped out whole nations without a thought. Then there was the flood. Then there was Sodom and Gamora. Then there was … on and on. Famines, floods ,pestilence, all from God. Where is he today when billions are starving and dying of disease and wars?

                Yes, I know. You will have some ‘faith’ rebuttal for each of these, that makes your ‘belief’ not to be questioned in your mind. In my mind, religion is a crutch for the weak or the whip for those in power, nothing more. I’m not afraid of dying as I will never know that it happened. That is a freedom YOU do not have.

                • No I won’t waste my time on any rebuttal. You’re convinced that God is evil and Christianity is a hoax. I just feel very sorry for you. There will be a time that you’ll understand, but not today.

                  • When eternity is reality…there will be no agnostics or atheists. Justice will prevail.

                • @Makati1 ;0p … Don’t be a Dink . DON’T BE A DESTROYER – BE A BUILDER – SEEKER OF KNOWLEDGE ENLIGHTENMENT .

                  YOU’VE NO RIGHT to trample on others personal beliefs !

                  We All have our own individual belief systems to cope with the pressures of life .

                  To each his own … Respect That … if you expect or want others to Respect your own individual belief system !

                  Or suffer the consequences of your own bigotry ignorance and lack of respect sympathy or consideration for your fellow man or woman .

                  Those who live by the Sword are Doomed to Die by the Sword !

                  The Sword of those who would be Destroyers of Life Societies Knowledge cuts both ways .

                  One who does not give Respect will receive none in Return .

                  ~N.O. ;0p

                • he is here ,he gives us free will ,he’s not like the goverment he has no desire to force us to do anything we dont want to do ,including loving him ,i bet it pisses you off to know that even though you dont believe in him he still believes in you

                • If you don’t believe in God, how can you claim to know the “mind of God” or His motivation in any case?

              • The only way you would have to “deal” with this particular “Zombie” (Christ when He returns) is if you insist on being against Him now. He offers reconciliation to us now, but if we refuse, then we must face Him.

              • Zombies; You’ve been watching too much tv!

            • You’ll be among the first to die.

          • Word!

          • Ike,

            Don’t let all of the God/Christian haters get you down. They will find out sooner or later the THEY were wrong! Way wrong!

            I used to care and try to witness to these types, but it doesn’t do any good unless you’re face-to-face with someone. Then, they don’t act so childish and evil. The anonymity of the web has made us such a bitter and hateful society (and yes, I have “Anonymous” as my handle, get over it!). Now, unfortunately, I could honestly care less what they say, what trash-talk, what evil babble or personal attacks they type here or at any other forum. The “thinking” and “logical” people out there (even if they’re not Christians) know what kind of human DNA waste product they are!

            God bless you Ike!!

            MOLON LABE!

            • If I may, as a non Christian but nevertheless devout person, I’d like to say that maybe we should all cut each other some slack. Don’t want to be a Christian? Fine, don’t, but don’t be such a jerk about it to someone who is. Likewise, if you are Christian, don’t go all preachy at people who aren’t.

              I think that we need to remember that our main enemy on this earth are the ObamaNazis and all their willing tools and helpers. They HATE us, there’s no other word for it! All you have to do is look at the dark, glowering, psychotic look on Obama’s face and in his eyes whenever he is confronted by anyone who won’t kiss his ass and agree with his every word. Then think about the batshit crazy look we’ve seen on Pelosi’s ugly mug, or the grim “how dare you question me” look Feinstein gets when she’s lecturing us peasants on how we don’t “need” “assault rifles” — as if it’s up to that ugly witch to decide this for us. Just look at the crazy exuding from Cuomo when he postures and harangues about how New Yorkers don’t “need” more than 7 bullets for their guns — nice trick that, since virtually NO semi automatic pistols have less than 8. I guess New Yorkers will have to become Wyatt Earp and start slinging six shooters. Look at the “master race” arrogance from Bloomberg, who seeks to ban all guns for everyone EXCEPT those protecting his wrinkly ass… those are just fine. Gotta wonder…how many bullets are in the guns of Bloomberg’s bodyguards… are THEY really limited to 7? Or have they been chosen to have more than anyone else, because Bloomberg is so “special”?

              Our enemies are OUT THERE.

              • True enough.

                But, I must say, that Christians are obligated to “defend the faith”, just like you, me and all patriots are to defend our rights. I am more worried about what God Almighty can do to the soul than I am what man can do to the body!

                I will always hold fast to my faith, and I will always defend my faith and those who are ridiculed or attacked. If that sounds “preachy”… sorry, and in reality… too bad!

                The main thing here is that you have the right to not be a Christian and I have the right to be one, correct? But I believe, and think you do too, that just as you have the right to not want to hear it – I have the right to say anything about God, the Bible, Jesus Christ, my faith or anything else. Would you not agree? If not, then tell me please… why do your rights supersede mine?

                God bless the united States –
                Deo Vindice!

                • My rights proceed yours when I have no choice. I have the right to NOT have to listen to your rants. You have the right to say what you want and suffer the consequences. When the SHTF, the response may be a 45 in the heart from someone protecting his freedom.

                  Buy an add in the news or a website if you want to preach to the heathens. I can not read it if I want. THAT is my freedom, but when I do not have the option to NOT listen, then your freedom is encroaching on mine.

                  • You are a nut, sorry to say. You are making absolutely NO sense!

                    How is anyone FORCING you to “listen” to any comment on this board? Are they holding a gun to your numb-skull? BTW, how does one “listen” to typed comments, that is unless your blind and have TDY or whatever it’s called.

                    Give me a break please. If you think YOUR rights are more important that mine or any other person’s, then you have no concept of rights, liberties and freedoms!! I see you as nothing but one who likes to antagonize anything they don’t like – ya know, like a good little Liberal does!!

                    So, say what you want, even if it’s the babble of a very foolish and illogical troll. My words can NEVER infringe or encroach upon ANYONE unless that person ALLOWS it! And you sir, have the right to NOT read anything that you don’t like! So … here’s a hint … DON’T READ IT!!

                    DEO VINDICE!

                  • Listen to yourself. Are You for the human race or are you a racist. We need to stand together no matter of race, color, cred or RELIGION. We want the same FREEDOM from the pig scum sucking hores that control everything.

                  • You always have a choice to listen, to read or not…but infringing on my right to speak is not your option! ..for then you also loose your right to express anything. Just step back and look at where the line is drawn. What impedes my rights does yours as well.

                  • There is a wonderful invention that will help with your problem. It is called a scroll wheel.

                • Once you understand that the true Creator cannot endorse any division within the creation, you begin to realize that religion (including that of Christianity) is part of the Deceiver’s agenda. You are presently blinded to think otherwise. What do you really think that perfect love and perfect truth wants with the destruction of yours or any soul, even if it were within its character? Humanity is a 6.8 billion cell organism and we have forgotten who and what we were generations ago, thanks to heavy and comprehensive doses of deception. Any cell that believes that it can be saved apart from the “body” is part of the cancer that is destroying the whole. I know your “faith” brings you a believable degree of comfort for the time being, but it is designed to harm you. The Christ (and many like him) was trying to tell us that before they killed him and deified him as an instrument of their agenda.

                  • 16 people don’t want to hear about a Creator that doesn’t fit their agenda 😉

                • @Anonymous:

                  No, that doesn’t sound preachy at all. You believe what you believe, and because of that, there are certain things you HAVE to do, and others that you are CALLED to do. If anything, I think that the most devout Christians are the ones least likely to give me a hard time. For example, for many years I was involved with Operation Rescue. I worked side by side with many people whose level of faith was such that they would be willing to be arrested and/or beaten up by the police than to do something which violated their conscience. They all knew that I was not a Christian and nobody EVER gave me any crap for it.
                  On the other hand, many of my fellow students at the college I attended couldn’t get enough of pulling the “Christian” card… even as they got stoned, had abortions, dabbled in Ouija boards and the occult, etc etc. For that lot, it wasn’t a life choice, it was a label.

                  This sort of thing happens to me all the time. For example, I moved to the south a few years ago, and even though I still have that guttural New England accent, the people I have the most trouble with here are not usually the southerners, its transplants who fled New York or Ohio (because those places are so screwed up) then come here and want to make South Carolina “more like home”. It pisses them off something fierce that I DON’T AGREE WITH THEM.

                  Screw it: I may drop my R’s when I talk, but I like me my grits and sweet potatoes, and the fact that I now have a 12 gauge to guard ’em 🙂

                  • Welcome to my home state friend….

              • This “religion” stuff is like a mind field, i.e. can be very dangerous.

                “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                Mahatma Gandhi

                I think he was referring to the “holier than thou” ones, imho.

                • Maybe.

                  But, where you may be confused a bit is this. Christianity is not a “religion”. It is not about us, or we Christians. It is about the True God, all about the Trinity, about Christ! It is not about feeling good, or do this if it feels good, or any humanistic standpoint. There is a huge difference.

                  ALL other “religions” (and that term is correct for ALL other entities who worship things or a person), are just that… religious. Their roots can all be traced to a single person (read HUMAN), and ALL of them take aspects from the true Word (the Bible) and twist it to ‘make it their own’!

                  No EA, you miss the point a bit. But, I will agree, there are way too many holier-than-thou, sanctimonious wannabe “Christians” out here. I am not one of them. I am a sinner saved by grace. I am weak and undone. As God says, my own righteousness is filthy rags to Him. I am only confident of one thing, and that is Christ and Him within me! That, my friend, is faith! And that is one of the biggest differences between Christianity and the other religions of the world. My faith lies in the Creator, not myself, an idol, a statue, a bead, a prayer… nothing but the blood of the Saviour!

                  God bless!
                  DEO VINDICE!

                  • So very strange that thel Creator of the Universe would resort to a bloody, tortuous murder as the the only means for redeeming mankind. I was examining history and the only other examples I can find for human sacrifice are always Satanic. Hmmmm…

                    After 1600 or so religions over the course of recorded history, it sounds like evangelical Christianity finally nailed the right formula (tongue firmly planted in cheek) and they did so about 400 years after the death of the Christ. It always surprises a Christian to find out that the Prince of the Air got involved in their faith, even when their bible told them that’s exactly what he would.

                    Pay more attention to the words of the Christ and not the words of your “In-Seminated” pastors and the Creator will speak to you.

                  • Heretic: Why a bloody, tortuous murder? The Life is in the Blood. Through His blood We are redeemed and given a new, eternal Life in another dimension.

                    In that new Life, the injustice of murder is transformed into Divine Justice, our individual sins redeemed by His pain, suffering, and willing sacrifice.

                    The history of mankind is littered with examples of the innocent who die for the crimes and sins of others; but not willingly.
                    Satanic victims do not give themselves willingly.

                    To GIVE ones Life for others is the ultimate sacrifice. We have that example in His service to US.

                • One must consider who Ghandi was talking about when he was referring to Christians. During his time, if you had asked the average British citizen whether or not he was a Christian, he would have been offended and replied, “Of course I am, what do you think I am? An cannibal?” Virtually anyone who was British embraced Christianity by default…..if only in name. Britain was considered a “Christian Nation” (remember that State Church thing?) But as you will also recall, the British were not so “Christian” when it came to their treatment of the the people of India.

                  • Exactly!!

                    Nor were they “Christian” to “We the People” of the New World! Oh how history has all but been forgotten.

                • I fully understand the quote and actually ‘agree’ with it… even though I’m a Christian as well.
                  I’ll be the first one to tell you that “I’m the chief sinner of all sinners…” I’m not fooling anyone and I’m not about to even try… and the Apostle Paul thought he had the corner on the market of being “the chief sinner” … anyway, there is an old saying that definitely applies here: Never judge the foundation of an ideology based on the abuse of it’s followers… judge it based on the foundation of the founder.

                  • Correct! Choosing to believe or disbelieve in God based on the behavior of his followers alone is an ad hominem objection….since one would be evaluating the belief system without taking into account the validity or invalidity of the claims of that belief system.

                    I heard an answer to those who say, “How can you believe in God when you see something like the Holocaust.” The response was, “How can you believe in man when you see the holocaust?”

                    Many will doubt the goodness of God because of evil in the world, but they have no problem with believing and trusting in some man who promises them the moon.

                  • So disappointing when comments thread goes off topic and gets hijacked by the Christian/Atheist folks. I’m not sure but think that there might be other sites more geared to that type of discussion. The article was about bugging out vs bugging in. I always appreciate the comments from people with so much more experience than I have and their willingness to share

              • If we have conviction and faith and are in the right, we can take these guys out with black powder rifles, think about it, 200,000 men and women with modern black powder rifles marching on the capitol, thats one for youtube

                • You are so right!

                  Have you ever heard of Rev. John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg?

                  Search this out, and everyone will find out that it is a very true and inspiring story!

                  Perhaps the most famous of Patriot Pastors was the Rev. John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg. In January of 1776 after completing a message from the text, Ecclesiastes 3:1, “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven,” Pastor Muhlenberg stepped down from his pulpit and said, “In the language of the Holy Writ, there is a time for all things. There is a time to preach and a time to fight. And now is the time to fight.” He then removed his clerical robe to reveal the uniform of a Colonial Army officer. That afternoon, he rode off leading 300 men from his congregation to join General George Washington as the Eighth Virginia Cavalry. Pastor Muhlenberg rose to the rank of Major General before the war ended.

                  MOLON LABE!
                  DEO VINDICE!

                • As much as I like your enthusiasm, being x-military and having a pretty good understanding about battlefield tactics, I have to say that this ol’boy won’t be joining in that particular march… if you study the actual layout of DC, you’ll see that it laid out in such a way that any major ‘march’ could easily be ‘funneled’ into the center of the operations, corralled and ‘pinned in’… then it would be like shooting fish in a barrel… or in this case drones shooting us in a ‘barrel’…
                  By going to DC you’re gathering a mass amount of like minded people for the feds to be able to ‘take-out’ all at once… don’t do that, instead of us delivering ourselves to them on a silver platter, make them come to us… keep your numbers small and spread out, make the ‘opposing’ force alter their tactics instead of us altering ours… because we’re so large in numbers (there are those who estimate that patriot numbers range anywhere from 10 to 50 million – and judging by the sheer volume of people at the gun show this weekend here where I live, I suspect those numbers are somewhat conservative) the PTB will have their hands full when they have to “come into our backyard to play… we’ll have the home field advantage…” so to speak..

                  • He wants to organize a new bonus march.

                • K; Not sure I’d want to try that! Would rather do that with my AR and a combat load. THAT is the point of the Second Amendment that the “educated elite” apparently can’t understand (or won’t). IMHO

              • Son-of-Sam

                You’re entitled to your beliefs, per the doctrine of Free Will, given to us by the Creator.

                Am not here to pass judgment upon your reasoning.
                However, be sure to ‘tune in’ on the inner-self reality channel, in the coming times of extreme duress and danger.
                As you might just hear the Creator, speaking to YOU!

                If such ever occurs…

                Listen very closely at that point and follow his directions!

                Good luck.

                • Very well said Anton!

                  He, and a lot of folks, forget (or don’t know) that the true enemy is – evil. And that the true fight is this: that “we fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities.” If we’d only learn this truth, eh?

                  • Per you, Anon….DIO VINDICE indeed!

                    Thumbs up.

              • There are things about the President and other leaders of the Democratic Party that I don’t like, but the name calling, inuendo and demogogery is taking this Country to the pit.

              • Son of Sam,

                I couldn’t have said it better brother.

          • The ratio of people that don’t care about a relationship with their Heavenly Father is still evident by the thumbs down to Ike’s comment.

            A third of God’s children (all souls He created) fell out of that relationship in the first Heaven/Earth age, and a third are still doing it. There is another third that are just kinda lolly-gagging around and aren’t necessarily bad or evil, but just don’t really give a shit either way.

            Bugging out or hunkering down may not be that relevant unless you live in the middle of a metropolis, but; “Whom” you align yourself with is very relevant. In a SHTF situation, You best be hooked up/yoked with a person that has the same spiritual mindset or you are asking for more aggravation and turmoil than you may be able to handle.

            I’ve been doing a little testing on s0-called friends over the past three years or so, just to see how they react to certain situations and conversations. Thank God for that because it showed me which were “true” friends and which were two-faced backstabbers/liars. Good thing I hadn’t been counting/relying on their support for a SHTF plan group.

            We have narrowed our little group down and have just about got all our ducks in a row; all with God’s help and support. If God is with you and for you; who can stand against you? Answer….NONE!

            • Something for your consideration DT, when one speaks of a relationship, one must know precisely with whom they are interacting. Sometimes we think we are dealing with one person when we later find out that they are not who we thought they were. The greatest challenge for people of faith in the coming months and years will be whether or not they are willing to examine the deities they are ascribing worth to, and whether there are any contradictions within the character of these deities. Also, it will be important to trace the chain of authority, as these teachings always come through the mouths and hands of men.

              If I may skip to the chase for those of the Christian tradition, the god of the old testament (whom you are probably referring to as your heavenly father), is not always one in the same with the Creator. When the writings refer to El or Yah, this is a dangerous archetype that demonstrates attributes that are as puzzling as they are troubling… human attributes like jealousy, anger, regret and vengeance, while requiring blood sacrifice, war, murder and other anti-creation activities.

              Make no mistake, this vengeful type of god strongly appeals to our egos and our hunger for justice. But in the end, it is just us responding to TPTB’s death cult, with yet another death cult; one that they have conveniently supplied to us beforehand. We cling aggressively to these beliefs because they were designed to hit us at our weakest points. That is why TPTB have even had the gall to hide their activities in plain sight. Look at the word “be-lie-f” for instance. If they can get us to “be” a “lie” or live a lie, they can more easily succeed with their plans.

          • Ignorance is bliss apparently…

          • YOU, my friend, will burn in an eternal hell!!

        • I’ve been looking into a folding bike for the trunk, electric scooters are small & compact, but useless if it’s an EMP.

          • Speaking of EMP’s – be prepared to bust a window on your vehicle. The electronic locks will not work. Make sure your BOB, hardware, etc. is in reach and accessible. Even trunks rely on electronics these days. Some sedans have trunk access through the back seat.

            • Good point.

            • Hopefully one won’t have to. I have dual locks – electronic and key.

            • TC–I’ve read about recent tests that indicate that EMP may not be a death blow to even newer vehicles, especially if they are turned off when it occurs. The big problem MAY be refueling those vehicles, and one can only imagine the chaos due to accidents because of stalled vehicles. The electrical power grid is not expected to fare well.

            • The power this and power that are part of the reason that vehicles have become so costly. Heated seats are a nice toy, but not exactly essential.

              • I doubt that kind of a lot. The electronic trinkets aren’t exactly free, but I have a hard time believing that a microcontroller, 4 solenoids (door locks), and 4 motors (windows) total up to like… $15,000 even after profit’s taken into account.

                I suspect more the airbags and traction control and crumple zones. Even the ABS isn’t all that complicated frankly. That one’s probably spendy but we’re still not talking $15,000.

            • Ms.Chic – this is hands down the ‘Best Tip of the Day’. It set off a very RED ALERT – Well, DuH! in my head since my car auto-locks me in when I reach 5 mph.
              Thanks for thinking outside the box and passing it along.

            • GOOD POINT!

            • All vehicles with electric locks come with manual lock/unlock levers, red on the lever is unlocked. But you can break the windows if you want to,

            • The electronic locks should still work, an EMP should only take out itegrted circuits, things that run on very low voltage and low power. Electric motors and such would not be harmed unless it was an absolutly HUGE EMP.

            • I traded my “power everything” car for a 2007 Kia Rio–roll down windows, good gas mileage, and I can get to the trunk through the back seat. With the economy crashing, I actually came out ahead on the deal–

          • Portable faraday cage possible for electroins on mo-ped? I don’t have comprehension of difficulty to replace…Just thinkin’ with a finger.

          • On EMPs…

            I’ve studied this in depth, and, when you cut through all the hype there are just a few things you have to worry about:

            Electronics connected to long wire communication lines, antennas and power distribution networks. (Wordlwide cable and satellite network feeds, the internet)

            Power distribution equipment connected to long distribution lines. (The Power Grid)It won’t break your electric scooter and it won’t break your car.

            In all cases, electronics equipment is shielded to ground out RFI/EMI and the wires running through the electrical system are not long enough to worry about and are mostly shielded by the body anyway.

            The big trouble with an EMP is the grid. It could go down and stay down for months, if not years. Communications networks will be mostly TOAST (the kind thats comes out of the toaster ON FIRE!) But, your backup generator will be fine and your radio will be fine as long as you didn’t have it connected to that 100ft Marconi antenna you strung up last year!

            The EMP myth is fear mongering, mostly. But, even it if only busts 10% of the grid, that will be enough to cause major disruptions and you’ll be glad you had that generator, extra fuel, food and your guns.

            EMP/CME possibilities and damages are real but the crap about it breaking small electronics and electrical devices that are not connected to the grid is mythical.

            One real danger may be fires. When the devices in your home have to sink the massive current surge, some may burst into flames. Step down transformers and motors may certainly smoke and, well, you know what they say! Where there’s smoke, there’s fire!

            I worry way more about a currency collapse. People will undestand that and they’ll be pissed and be taking it out on their fellow humans (and you if you’re in the immediate area). An EMP will turn them all into shock-zombies (see my previous post) and getting home will be just a matter of dodging them.

        • Look at going home on alternative routes like the railroad tracks or power line right-of-ways.

          • Railroad tracks should work, but many of the power line right-of-ways cut through private land, so you might have some trouble if the land owner sees you cutting across his property; even if it is the power company right-of-way, it isn’t a public right-of-way. Be careful.

            • pipeline right of ways fall in this dept. as well, even tho they are completely maintained..

        • You’re all wrong, you have to be unpredictable, moble, ready to leave at a moments notice. It does not mean you can’t come back to your home or retreat. Unless they burn you out. You just have to be ready to move with pack and weapon QUICK! Maybe move around and out flank your attackers. I do know if you stay hunkerd down in one place, nobody better know your there. They will want your stuff. Make them think your there and watch from a distance or flank them and attack. You must be physically fit, if you cant move relatively quick, then you might not make it. Its not all about guns and ammo, its more about tactics and maneuverability. Plan your strategy carefully………Watch Ur Six

          • Leaving our retreat and animals is not an option.

            We are prepared, first and foremost, to meet our maker; so staying put and facing whatever challenges/challengers come our way is what we will do.
            Our only escape plan is fighting to the death and going down with the ship. Will keep a five gallon can of gas handy so we and our preps go out in a blaze of glory if need be.

            We’ll see some of you on the other side.

            • Thats what they want, dont make it easy for them. The government or the bad guys. You gotta move you gotta fight you gotta stay alive.

          • If the S hits TF, and I will make a judgement call as whether it’s the end of society as we know it. My place is going to be so booby trapped it will be X rated.

            As Ferfal pointed out, kidnapping became a common occurrence. No children will be out playing and stumble into anything set up. And for the most part my traps will be remotely activated. Not something an animal can stumble into.

            Know all the approaches and have them rigged with string and cans or fishing line and hooks. Home made claymores out of 3/4″ pipe and 12 gauge shotgun shells are doable to. All of this is illegal under Rule of Law. But the components are not illegal to have.

            Bugging in and just defending is not always the best strategy. Unless you have turned your defense into multiple traps.

            I recommend buying up lots of fishing line. You can have multiple runs into your house hooked up to small bells for a quiet notification of approaching people.

            Stock up like there’s no tomorrow!

        • Rick I feel your sentiment, I work quite a ways from home, so I pack a good size back pack with many necessities for 4 days or more on the walk.
          I have always been an avid outdoorsman , so I have already mapped my way home and have certain land marks so I know my distances, Also have planned a few routes that dont put me out on the concrete, or asphalt if you get my meaning

          I was always told to measure the amout of trouble in a city can be directly related to how much concrete there is , in other words low cover high population , big trouble.
          Know your surroundings , and know your path from where ever you are at without a GPS..I have also lived in this general area all my life so I could hoof it if ever necessary, I would have over 45 miles to walk, it would probably take me a good day and a half to walk it without any unforseen issues.

          I pack a good pair of boots, water,Food, filter, bags, matches, lighter(s), kindling, gloves, blanket, rope, knifes, the list is long but you get the idea.
          Like I said a good size back pack, and it stays in my vehicle.

          take care of your feet

          • forgot to add, My best bug out, is to be or get home, its where I have what I need to survive long term

            • VFR,
              As anyone knows who has humped a ruck sack for any distance, foot powder is a Godsend!

              Keep your powder dry,

        • im in SWFL and when some one tells me ,ill go up to the mountians ,i ask them if they ever cut fire wood in 15deg. weather or do they know the game to hunt in that area ,or do they have enough coats (seeing as its about 70deg out right now at 2am)how about going up and down the hills when your a flat lander, point is stay with what you know and grew up around ,you cant just move to a new enviorment over night and learn everything you know over again in a grid down situation ,if you got hungry mouths ,there not going to wait while you get your on the job learning skills

        • My “bug out bag” is a bug home bag. I keep one in the trunk of what ever vehicle I am driving in. In the summer I also load up on emergency water. In the winter extra jakets. Its common sense. I have seen a freeway near by shut down for hours with small snow storms in the pass. People just sitting there for hours. Huge percent of tem will not take the time to pack simple comfor supplies much less the elaborate yet compact survuval trinkets I carry. You can save a plastic laundry container and jam it full of what ever you would need and keep it in te trunk.
          Being prepared is “responsible mentality” and a journey that evolves as you go along.

        • Remember, and this is important, FEMA and DHS may not let you know of an impending disaster or “event”. FEMA is designed to control all info in time of crisis. We may all have to stay in place, wherever we are. So, always have some gear with you at all times.

        • FACTS:
          Every human is separated from God because of sin and EVERY human must repent of their sin and asked Jesus for forgiveness N order 2 go 2 Heaven!

          FACT: Jesus told His disciples when sending them out to sell what they had and buy 2 swords to take with them

          FACT: We must trust the Lord, but Proverbs says a wise man sees what is coming and prepares!!
          Preparing is to prepare spiritually and take care of the family, whatever that may entail. As a Christian, I will kill immediately anyone who tries to harm the family or myself. I will help others all I can but will take care of my family first. I am VERY thankful for sites such as this . I have learned so much and have much more confidence about things than I did a year ago!! Thanks everyone!!
          Prepare the best U can, and trust the Lord for the rest!!!

        • I’m bugging in. Already 20 mi. from CA metropolis, secure 3.5acre homestead. Solar off grid with PV/ LPG 14kw gen. with fenced grounds and security cams. Garden in. Well water. Two years food storage. Five others two hours away to join. Well armed preformed group. We’re patterned after JW Rawles “Patriots” and Survivalblog.com. Read his archives and get started.

      2. I’m gonna Stand My Ground, wherever I am.

        • I agree with Iowa.
          Since I am not a young guy, I will make my stand at home pretty much in all cases. I live in a rural area and am/could be pretty self sufficient with God’s help.
          The one thing you do not want to be is a refugee.
          If you have a relative or retreat to go to then fine!But if you don’t, stay home with your preps and hope/pray for the best. If you haven’t prepared for heat,water,food,etc,you are probably screwed anyway. Good Fortune! James

      3. America:

        Happy Gun Appreciation Day!

        Celebrate at your local range and gun shop. Please buy more guns and ammo, now.

          • Take out scenes from the new Red Dawn movie that China ORDERED them to take out and use North Korea instead.

            If any of you Patriots have never seen, YOU MUST SEE THIS! It’s coming…


          • Kinda like who’s on first

          • This is so damn true and hilarious at the same time. There is only one way for TPTB/NWO, to get out of the mess they have created……..Kill Off China, well at least two thirds of it along with two thirds of the Islamic nations. Take dominion and control over their gold and crude reserves and “wah-la”, it’s nirvana with a new world currency and a one world religion coming out of the vatican. Oh so cheesy, the sheeple didn’t see it coming.

          • Thanks Iowa, that was both truthful and funny!

        • And 2 people shot at gun appreciation day. What did anyone think was gonna happen? Morons.

          • Um, I think the incident was at a gun show where a guy had a loaded shotgun in a case, and it jarred off when was opening it for the security check at the door. OK, a moron for casing the gun while it was loaded, but it had nothing to do with the Gun Appreciation Day.

          • It’s worse than that. Five people shot at 3 different shows. Not good.

            Raleigh: 3 people shot when someone discharged a shotgun taking it out the case
            Cleveland: Some dealer “accidentally” pulled the trigger on a gun he’d just bought
            Indianapolis: Some fool shot himself in the hand trying to load his gun in the parking lot.

            • Darwinism at its Best ! ;0P

              * reminds me of the moron from the dooms day prepper show who blew his thumb right off in front of the camera’s !

              i laughed my ass off , i still do when i think of it !


              ~N.O. ;0p


              Look folks right this very minute AmeriKa is 10’s of TRILLION’s of dollars broke , it’s a dead beat druggy nation – it’s drugs of choice are war , sex (porn) , illegal drugs , big pharma psycho drugs , alcohol and 100’s of trillions of dollars printed from the thin air creating our monopoly money dollars – fake fiat currency .


              Right this very minute the debt money junkie AmeriKa is “Robbing” at military gun point the country of Mali in Africa with the French for Mali’s physical Gold Reserves to give back to Germany Gold the French and AmeriKans “Stole” by fraud from Germany !

              AmeriKa is nothing now but a Junky WAR Whore of the NWO UN ZOG FREEMASONS GLOBALISTS … and She is DEAD BROKE ! Robbing any country to weak to defend itself from AmeriKan and NATO Armed Fores ! AMERIKA IS NUTHIN BUT A common ZOG FREEMASON MAFIA THUG CRIMINAL COUNTRY NOW !

              If that doesn’t scare you into Action … well someone has to be the sacrificial “PREY” , DHS GESTAPO canon fodder … during the next NWO UN ZOG FEDGOV directed created sheeple TERROR inspired False-Fag … Locking Down Completely our Tax Debt Slave Prison in Nation Wide UN DHS enforced MARTIAL LAW !

              ~N.O. ;0p

              • One Key Truth relating to Gold, and thus to the Soundness or lack thereof of our Fiat Currencies and Financial System, is that there is a Serious Question regarding whether Major Western Banks and Governments actually have all the Gold they say they do.

                there’s a serious sudden reason … Germany has decided to repatriate their 3,400 Tons of Gold allegedly stored at The Fed in New York. Why?

              • Don’t know why you got all the downvotes. It got nothing to do with AlQaida but with the resources. Uranium , oil reserves and, like you said, gold. The bankers are strip mining the world with the co-op of NATO and the USA MIC.Infinite debt money usury growth is impossible on a finite planet but…….the sheep will be the last to know.

              • LOSER…get off the meth pipe you assfuck!

                • loser ?

                  ;0) the fact i am able to see the simple truth of reality

                  … and you obviously live in a false reality built from media political bank corporate government lies .

                  makes me a loser ?

                  okay .

                  ;0) i’m a loser .

                  whatever gets your motor going in the morning .

                  ;0) i’m still smiling for one simple fact and reason … i’m very self prepared in all the necessary areas of preparedness for what is coming to not only ensure i survive it , but also “thrive” through it .

                  are you ???

                  ~ N.O. ;0p

            • I knew this was gonna happen. I just knew it.

            • Thats nationwide. How many gangsters murdered other gangsters today?

              • Perception is reality. It covinces the non-prepper zombies that people cant be trusted with guns.

        • Yup, my son was at Cabella’s yesterday. He said the shelves were nearly empty of guns and it was a weird feeling. On another note, we had an unusually warm day here today, and could hear the local gun range…it’s a couple miles, as the crow flies, but sounded very active. All I could think was, I hope they can afford to waste the ammo.

          • Exactly!! I haven’t been practicing much lately because I don’t want to waste my ammo and don’t have enough $$ to reload more right now.

      4. I could not agree with you more. At home you will always have far more resources than if you head for the hills. Even if you have a specific location to bug out to, that is well stocked, in a real emergency you might not be able to get passed clogged highways and roads. You also might get there, and find out someone else got there first and took every thing.

        There are times when bugging out will be necessary, but most of the time bugging in is the right thing to do.

        • But on TV the aid workers look so nice!

          • Won’t be aid workers coming. just forced euthanasia, like WW2.

        • Hi.I live in South Dakota, not in the hills there is no place to bug out to.All flat farmland no trees or caves per say.

          • Sounds like Heaven to me!

          • Hummmm,Diggin’ a hole could be smart move…for storms and such like..

      5. Bug out to a place you can hunker down.

      6. I would think in most cases it would be smarter to bunker in since you know your own territory (I hope) so most of you focus would be on taking care of yourself/family and not being half distracted by the unknown things around you, If you happen to be located inner city, you might have to rethink this and a least get to the outskirts. Unless you can get a large group that will work together to help each other, then you will stand a chance, but by yourself your chances would not be great. There was an article on here months ago about a man surviving in a war zone with his family, it was good reading and information for anyone. If it can be found, I think it should be re-posted once a month for everyone to to read and study.

          • @Eisenkrutz

            That man is AMAZING! I like him so much, I even named my Yugo SKS after him

            • His experience is in full out war zone so some of the things are hopefully not gonna be applicable to us. In my opinion, Argentina should probably be our main case study. Still, Selco is one of my primary resources. I also had a personal friend who lived through the Bosnian war.

      7. I live in an urban area. Two possibilities exist. First, lock down in the name of security, in which case I am subject to the whims of the Statists. Second, chaos rules the streets, in which case I am subject to the whims, and criminal acts, of the mob. For me, it has to be bug out (I have a relative who has space for me and is in a place that works).

        Once bugged out, we hunker down, at least until we can’t. Relative’s place: Five acres of woods. Pond for water. Large garden. Good supply for food, defensive tools, garden tools, and so forth. Most importantly, not near major urban area, and in a community of about 8 houses on a total of maybe 40 acres. All aware and preparing. Already have discussed mutual aid options.

        So, again, bug out to hunker down if you need to, but when you hunker down, the single most important thing is probably community.

        • i’m in an urban area too, but i’m hunkering down

          too many things can go wrong trying to get out of a large city and getting to someplace that may or may not have enough supplies available to wait out for things to return to normalcy, and that will happen; at some point people will accept what reality is.

          i’ve got food for months, stored things to get by and stored money and metals to trade. only way i’m screwed is if the water supply goes out for weeks; but if it gets that bad; then the US has bigger problems than i could imagine, like back to the dark ages problems.

          • lena
            a good EMP and your water supply will probably be gone,,anything to cut the power off


            • In my area, I see no generators sitting next to water towers. How long would the existing supply last? Without electric power, how do you refill a water tower? That’s a loooooong way to pull up buckets with a rope.

          • The Golden Horde is gonna have you for breakfast, and yo momma for dinner.

            • StukaPilot: Like to fancy yourself as a military person but you’ve never been have you? Otherwise you’d know that this “Golden Hoard” stuff is highly unlikely my Mall Ninja friend. Why you may ask: microbes. Those little nasties (bacteria & viruses) that are in every free water source in this county. During any serious crisis clean water will be impossible to find. Dead bodies and improper sanitation will make things a million times worse. Without proper water purification, proper sanitation, and immunizations against water borne diseases like cholera and typhoid, no large group will be able to sustain itself for very long. An army in the field like the Romans 2000 thousand years ago to today’s military has to have a clean water supply. Today that means mobile purification stations and proper sanitation that’s safely away from sleeping and eating facilities. These things take planning and training or everyone gets sick and many will die. Even a good Boy Scout knows these things, but you don’t seem to. Without these life saving measures, your “Goldern Hoard” becomes a scraggly, weak little band of disease carriers who can barely walk, let alone fight. Got good water?

          • I wish you luck Lena, but I would anticipate the worst. When I say I am bugging out to hunker down, I am leaving as thing roll down hill. It may be a quick crash or collapse, but even if so, it will take days before the mobs take over or martial law declared. Days is enough time to roll out in my case. I am pretty confident I will get out of this area in time.

            Hunkering down in an urban area is, at least here, suicide. We live not a mile from the largest public housing development in the state. Once the S hits the fan, it will be too ugly to hunker down. I have “stuff” but the zombies will be too many and too violent to ward off. Hunkering down will last about a week, and this entire area will succumb to the roving mob violence.

            • For a quarter century, I have lived near enough to a urban area both to enjoy urban conveniences and to understand the many difficulties which can emanate from the area. In fact, it is almost inconceivable to understand all the logistics that come into play everyday in supplying urban residents with food, water, electricity, etc.

              It becomes obvious that urban living is peaking and all it would take are some breakdowns in that supply for urban living to side over the civil cliff. That’s the reason that I sold my house last year and we’re now searching for a suitable home way, way out. I can’t see a total breakdown of law and order, but even a temporary break can result in big problems. Seems that getting beyond a gasoline tank distance away from an urban area can be beneficially considered by many urban residents.

          • I’m in Los Angeles and I’d…really rather bug the hell out but I have no where to go and I can’t afford a boat at the moment. I’m going to have to prep for bug in. I doubt… this being Los Angeles and all, that I’d make it very long in a serious situation.

            But it’s better than doing nothing… not MUCH better but… better.

            Water’s easy, I’m going to go with storing it, second option is Berkey filter, third option is Freznel setup that I have yet to figure out. But initially storing it. I can store quite a lot.

            Food too.

            My main worries are: what if the sewers back up, and where do I poop. I know you can install some anti-backup thing on your sewer main, sounds painfully expensive at the moment, will probably go with capping everything off if it comes to that.

            Poop… eh good question. Really good question. I dunno.

        • The great thing about Iowa is that “most” city dwellers aren’t living in apartment prison deathtraps like Chicago, Minneapolis, St Louis, or Kansas City.

          I live in a one of the top 3 big cities in Iowa, and I’m not worried. Rows of houses are a better chance than rows of apartment buildings.

          Though I have a couple places to go, I pray I have 24 hours to move EVERYTHING or I’m staying put. I leave it to God.

          However, that Crazies movie spooked me a litte.


        • Yep, right after drinking water and rice.

        • That is a good plan but what makes you think you are going to make it to your relatives house? What do you think is going to happen when country communities see hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring out of huge urban centers and looking to take what they have?

          They are going to protect themselves by making it impossible for any but the most strong and prepared to get to them. Any bridges between where you are and where you need to be? There may not be any when you try to get there. There may be roadblocks put up too.

          People who gave up a lot to get to a safe place in the country before it hit the fan aren’t going to be all that sympathetic to those who wanted the benefits of staying in the large cities and thought they would come out to the country afterwards.

          You need to think about that. Because I believe that is the way it will be.

      8. I’ve always figured it is far easier to protect food and fuel, than it is to carry it. I live under the assumption that, around here, by the time its time to Bug-Out, its too late…

      9. I keep a “get home bag” in the trunk of my car. If the SHTF when I am away, I will work my way home whether it be driving or hoofing it. Since leaving home can be stressful to your mind and body its something we don’t plan on doing unless our house is no longer habitable. We have everything we need. Since stress can also cause illness this needs to be considered as my husband already has some serious health issues. Our plans are to hunker down and defend what is ours. To that end we have made improvements to our home in the way of security entrance doors that cannot be kicked in. A metal roof which is fire resistant, and adds structural stability. We also have a well which we plan on adding a hand pump in order to have water when the electrical grid fails. We have wood burning stove for heat and cooking.

        • peanut_gallery

          Yep. Enough supplies and local knowledge to expend the fewest rounds on the way back. We have a brick house, with high window sills and shutters to cover them. On a hill with a wood lot for cover and fuel, and near enough a creek to drink, wash and water gardens. After that, the only thing that will be of more assistance, will be earnest prayer, and eternal vigilance…

      10. Bug-out vs hunker-down is only a dilemma for people who live in suburban areas. Cities eventually turn into Death Zones in most SHTF scenarios, and countryside is already a perfect bug-out place.

        • Countryside is NOT a perfect bug out place. Read up on farmhouse invasions in South Africa and Argentina. You get tortured and raped for hours because theres nobody around to hear you scream. This is real.

          • Yeah, and in cities people ignore the problems of others

            • One universal truth is that no one cares about your problems but you.

        • Isolation can be a double-edged sword. Read FerFal’s take on the subject.

          • Ferfal on youtube as “The Modern Survivalist”

            On the net as “Surviving in Argentina .com”

            He actually puts to rest the myth of the cannibal horde coming to get you.

      11. Everything depends on what happens. I live in a volcanic area. Nothing for several hundred years, but once-Wow! My neighbors are unreliable. I have been learning foraging and gardening for years. I choose drying over canning and have made some marvelous jerky. The feeling has been growing deep in my soul that my government may kill me. I am in my mid-sixties, not in great health.
        That said, I will never die a slave. I adopted the mantra in Galaxy Quest- “Never give up! Never surrender!” I repeat it when needed and it puts the steel in my spine.

      12. We plan to stay put, although we have reciprocal agreement with my brother who lives in another state. If they’re worse off, they will try to get to us, and vice-versa. Here’s hoping we don’t cross paths.We have a large house, but have four adult children and eight grandchildren, plus two teens still at home. I’m not sure we have enough, but with that much skilled help, we’ll probably make it. Op-sec should be very good.

        The “nail salon” chicks aren’t going to make it, and if a few of them are force-fed and kept alive, they aren’t going to be happy. I have one daughter-in-law like that, and will expend the minimum amount of energy on her while taking care of her two children since she’ll immediately fall apart. You could kill her by breaking one of her nails which, as time goes on, will be more and more of a temptation. Think hard about the different personalities with which you will be dealing. I have only one person I just can’t stand, but your inner group can fall apart rather quickly with one trouble-maker. Anyway, we’re bugging IN at home. Best of luck to you!

        • Our home is our bug out place. There are Two houses on 50 wooded acres that border a national forest. THe road in is one lane gravel. My brother-in-law lives in the 2nd house. Nearest Walmart — 45 minutes. We buy supplies every time we go to town. We built a big house two years ago. My daughter and her family (total 4) live in one end of the house. The wife and I have the other. We share a kitchen. We all have our own space which helps all to get along.

        • Vicky,
          Who decides ,whom is worse off? You need some criteria to determine…where the event occurs would be my first thought if I were in this situation.Example, if EMP, how do you communicate need between each other?
          I am in my location unless earthquake sinks our high point ..in that case, there could be many bridges out in every direction.My car or bike does not swim.

      13. Its just too bad that in today’s America that we even have to be thinking this way. But we must, because it is coming.

        Bugging out is kind of ridiculous, unless you are single, or are married with no kids.

        Bugging out should include tents, camper trailer, and many things you would take camping with the intentions of staying awhile, and moving fastly if you have to. However, you can only bug-out so long until the inevitable occurs–you and family become hungry.

        Bugging in is the best method, unless you live in a larger city. You need to know how to get food and water. America is in for a rude awakening, and that includes me even though I know it is coming. I am just hoping it is paranoia, or just a bad dream.

        • Battles with a few noted exceptions Usually goes to The side that is Familiar with the Terrain.

          When Swat teams descend of a perp the point of Maxium danger is when they have to enter the Home.

          WTSHTF the side with the most advantages will be the one with the greatest chance of surviAL.

          Dont discard your advantages unless absolutely nescesary

        • @ugly

          I think we are ALL hoping its just a bad dream, but dream or not, just remember the Three Ws


          • @Sos:



        • @Ugly, I usually agree with your posts, but this time I just find it odd that you would say bugging out is ridiculous. I mean, there are so many senerios that to say one is wrong is not seeing the big picture. For most people who live in cities, I seriously think they would disagree with you, and rightly so.

          I’m not saying bugging out is right for everyone, but saying it’s ridiculous is small minded and I’m glad you’re in a situation where you don’t feel the need to bug out. SOme of us will have to in order to survive, and in my opinion we’ll thrive if we’ve prepared well enough.

          Good luck to you when TSHTF!

          • Bugging out is ridiculous.

          • A huge city like Lost Angeles it is almost impossible to get out of even when things are normal. Unless you live on the Eastern or Northern fringes less than five miles to open space you are not going anywhere once everyone else gets the same idea to haul ass. You will run out of gas sitting in traffic. Those of you who do not live in really large cities do not understand the situation.

            • @ John W.

              “Those of you who do not live in really large cities do not understand the situation.”

              You said the truth with that statement. I’ve left west-central L.A. about 3:00 pm heading towards Arizona and after six hours, finally was able to get up to 45 MPH and had only gone about 80 miles. Talkin’ about gridlock on the freeway. I will never do that again.

          • @You Don’t Need to Know….Thanks for asking. When I said that bugging-out was ridiculous, I wasn’t talking about those preppers that are preparing in that manner and also know what they are doing and are very skilled at it. I was referring to most of us that would die within 2-4 weeks in the wilderness.

            If a person lives in Detroit, they don’t need to bug-out they just need to move.

            Bugging out takes extreme skill and knowledge. Most preppers are not even prepared for 6 months in their very own homes, how would they survive 4 weeks in the wilderness? Especially if they have several kids to care for. And matters can be worse if Mom and Grandma are with the group too.

            And in the wilderness preppers won’t be alone. There will be others not too far away. What happens if you pick out your spot and when SHTF you head that way only to find that three others discovered that very same spot or same area?

            I think the best way to bug-out is to plan way ahead. Maybe buy a small cabin in the woods. Or have a camper-trailer with stuff that you will need for the first 1-2 months.

            I have seen many bug-out plans and bug-out bags and other stuff, thus all I was saying that they won’t last long. Even seasoned Native Americans died during a harsh winter. Heck their life expentancy in the 1800s was under 40 years of age. And they knew how to gather food in the wild. How many of us do?

            If you are good at bugging out, then I am jelous. But for me, If I have to bug-out longer than 3 weeks with a tent and other stuff I will most likely starve. I need a small cabin somewhere.

            So I will stay in my small town. I will do the best I can. If we have to leave our home, then America is toasted anyway. Once rural America is bugging out, what chances do we have anyway. Might as well fight until dead.

            • Thank you! And I completely understand your point of view now and completely agree. We have been planning out Bol for years. If you are in rural America I am jealous and would rather be there than where I am…:). But you prepare for where you are.

            • re:cabin

              Isolated does not mean unknoen.

          • A mind is a terrible thing!–United negro college fund.

        • It is a shame, but look at history, im sure that the people in the big cities in europe never thought they would be blown to shit either, look at syria, those were all big cities, not unlike many of ours, their own government is bombing the crap out of them, with the violent crap our warmonger government has fomented across the earth you can bet our karma will be a bitch.
          Prepare, look at backup plans and dont get too attached to anything, being uncomfortable and shitting in the weeds may be better than getting bombed by a drone in your home

          • Oh, that could NEVER happen here.

            • Ohhhhh you kidder you, thats funny

              • That Haleakela bike ride from the summit was a blast. The bike store was almost completly destroyed by a fire. The corp was burning the sugar cane that day, right there next to the store, but argued they had nothing to do with the fire. They said the bike store owner torched his own joint to collect insurance. Wow!
                Beautiful scenery. But you coundn’t pay ME to go back. I have never been to a more controlling place. Can’t smoke or take a beer on the beach. WTF?? Aloha!

      14. “In my opinion the bugging out vs. hunkering down debate is moot because it all comes down to the type of threat, your personal situation and preparedness level – in the end you’ll have to make that decision based on that knowledge and common sense.”

        I’m of the mindset that it’s better to pick your battles, where you have a better-than-even chance of survival,and to leave all options open.

        Would I stay put if I knew my neighborhood is on the verge of being overrun by rampaging looters, or riots are breaking out all over? If time allows, it would probably be prudent to fight my way out and move on. After all, this house wouldn’t be much of a safe haven for my family if it’s engulfed in flames.

        I can think of a few other good reasons to get the hell out, and live to fight another day.

        In those situations, I’ll take my chances in the hills. More room to move around and set up defenses and early warning devices, and be able to assess threats from 360 degrees. Might as well put those 14 years of active duty army and combat experience to good use. I’ve planned extensively for those types of scenarios, and I do know these Kentucky hills pretty well.

        Of course, if pinned down and forced to stay, I’ll set up a few surprises around the yard and house for those same looters and rioters.

        So yes, I agree. It all comes down to the type of threat, and good ol’ common sense. All can offer advice, but no one knows your situation better than you.

        • Rampaging looters and roving bands of cannibals are not coming to get you. You dont understand what an economic collapse is.

        • Im with you on this one, by all appearences our place is ideal, rural, small comunity, ive got water, good visual, space to grow lots of food, but like you i can think of a few real good reasons to ditch, but luckily within 300-500 yards uphill from our house is some extremely thick forest, excellent cover, gulches, caves, there are seeps and other water sources, and the area opens onto the rest of Haleakala, pretty easy to disappear and in my opinion stay hidden, well see though, uncle sam has some real pricks on their side so nothing is a sure thing, but if need be a total bugout is possible and there are places to go that people just wont be willing to go to, but that will be safe, primitive, but safe.

      15. i have an elderly mother so i have to bug in…

      16. One way of keeping your supplies safe and ready to go is to store them in those fruit boxes that the grocery store either throws out or gives to people all the time moving. These boxes are noramlly double walled and tough. These boxes can take 100 pounds of canned goods and can be stcked evenly and wheeled out uses a dolly. I use seperations layers between the cans up and down, and something in between. Literally you could have a room full of these boxes and have them loaded into a truck, or a rental truck and be on your way to whereever. Most stores that know you will give you these boxes or sell them real cheap.

        A lot of things people forget about is that IF they know something is coming, A BIG IF. They can go and rent an U-Haul truck and stuff it, or get a bigger one and fill it up half way up. Then drive to somewhere safe, backing into a nice cave or tunnel would be nice, and then wait and see what happens. IF something happens severe enough the U-Haul Truck is now yours, and offers excellent shelter in a cave of some underground opening. Take along some rolls of insulation you use in you home attic type, and you could have a really nice little set up IF you had to get out to somewhere really isolated.

        Remember everybody, if SHTF enough, it is free pickens to a lot of what you can find that someone is no longer alive USE TO own. Knowing ahead of time of some world or nationwide catastrophe is key. Still when true SHTF, don’t feel bad about taking a dead person’s home, shelter, supplies, their vechicle, whatever you can use. No law system left means you take what you need from those that are not around anymore.

        By the way everybody, the southern hempishere in the past few minutes has begun to fire up with earthquakes after almost 2 and 1/2 days without anything. This is still shocking to me to see such inactivity on HALF the globe for about 60 hours. It is coming, a good size earthquake is in the final spasms before it snaps. I still say China, Japan, Indonesia, Chile to Mexico, are prime time for 7+, maybe a 8+. New Guinea to Fiji is my second choice. Third choice is Iran/Pakistan area and the west coast of U.S. The energy though is more focused on central South America and south cnetral China than anyway.

        • This is such a broad subject, there can’t be a right or wrong. There is a right or wrong for your family. I live outside a major city in urbanville and there’s NO way I would bug in. Not to mention we’d eventually get attacked here from the inner city, and my neighbors are all of the mindset that nothing will happen.

          We bought land about 3 hours north of us, have 4 routes, bikes, walking, driving, etc all planned. We have been stocking the land for survival. Hand pump well, stocked pond, fruit trees, shelter, bathroom, garden, security measures etc etc. We also have other families who feel the same way we do help out with everything.

          We have military and a prior LEO part of our group, which most on here won’t like, but when TSHTF we’ll know it’s coming before the average citizen.

          I’m not saying bugging out is for everyone, I just wanted to say that’s it’s possible and very necessary for our family. It definitely takes alot more money this way, but if nothing happens, we have one hell of a camp ground for shooting and camping.

          Good luck to everyone, no matter what you decide!

      17. Thanks Ike that is the best advice,
        We have to be prepared for whatever comes, depends where one is, climate, topography circumstances, nature of disater ( politics, economics, military or natural) we have to consider: am I single married with Kids what about mom & dad 50 to 70 + age are they comming with or are we relocating to where they are, God commands us to Honour thy father and mother( which is the first commandment with promise) Eph 6:2 Ex 20:12. There are localised (mini)shtf happening on my continent of africa and I have seen & heard of all kinds horrors but I have also met people who have told me wanderful testimonies about when even in the face of death have not left family behind I believe you guys may experince what has been a way of life for so many on the dark continent besides you got one us for a president now everything can go wrong. So whether its fleeing from floods or defending your community against rapper rape gangs, who knows you might even have to flee jumping out your bedroom window at 3 in the morning with just the shirt on your back what then?

      18. I know this is a SHTF plan site but I’m a homesteader. I don’t have a real plan for a SHTF event. I’m an experienced backpacker and wilderness camper, I’ve taken wilderness survival courses and have practiced what I was taught. I like going off trail hiking in the mountains and national forest. I’ve snow camped and I have good gear. My experience tells me that I would die if I had to survive the winter in the woods with a bug out bag. So that would be the last act of a desperate person. As I said, I’m a homesteader, my food is stored in jars, not freeze dried. I have chickens, goats and seeds. I’ll bug in as long as possible and be flexible after that.

        • Homesteading IS the best SHTFplan there is.

        • Rick is absolutely right. I’ve worked 40 years in the Cascades on a National Forest, I guarantee 97% of the folks who try and live outdoors in the mountains will die within a short while, summer or winter. The other 3% will die when they stagger out of the hills and get caught breaking into rural homes for food and shelter.

        • If I were there ,I’d begin to change a couple of things.I would do some dehydrating this coming year.It can give more variety, and is much lighter. You could use those peanut butter and jelly jars that have rubber sealers in the top of them. the Bama plastic,ones work real well. Just dehydrate,put in a moisture absorber,an o2 absorber,& in a dark place. good for years…light to carry, not easily broken. works for meats, fruits, veggies. Stores in much less space than canning jars.A qt. of dehydrated corn,probably would have 16-20 servings. To do this successfully you will need plenty water where you use it.

      19. I am planning on staying home for as long as I can. I would rather not have to take to the woods, especially here in Minnesota where the winters are not for wimps. The tough part will be deciding that the danger of staying in the city with the bad guys I anticipate will start kicking in doors for food outweighs the dangers of bugging out. That said, if I had to bug out, I’m ready, willing and trained to do that too. If I had to build shelter in the woods, I could do it.

      20. I wish I had a house to hunker down to.. unfortunately, all I got is storage unit full of stuff (including stored canned goods)and a SUV. (No home!) you’re lucky to have the choice.

        • Cynthia, I wish could help you with housing. I must say though, you’ve got guts: just an SUV and you’re STILL prepping. You’ll be in way better shape than the sheep with their flatscreens and 1 day of food on hand

        • You need to get together with another prepper. You have stuff you can contribute. You’d be an asset to another group of people.

        • @Cynthia:

          What state do you line in?

          • BA. This is not match.com!

            • @rick:

              lol Sir…just offering a hand up…I know you will do the same.

              • Send photo.

      21. In Michigan the Bug-In seems to carry more weight because seasonal exposures are dangerous. What really put me in the Bug-In camp was when I bought 25 axes at a farmers garage sale the other day for $50. When push comes to shove, it takes an incredible amount of gear to survive 95% of SHTF events. The bug-out small footprint idea only gains credibility when one is chased out by a superior force in technology, equipment and manpower (ie: a tyranical force). It is a concern, but tyranny was defeated a long time ago and it doesn’t seen to have the desire to come back to America any time soon. Touch wood!

      22. I built this place. Everything I need or want is right here. No place any better I can think of. Not to say maybe if lead is flying around I might think of one, but no, I’m staying put. Take me out in a bag.

      23. This is the prime reason that your BOL should be where you live. If you CHOOSE to live and continue to stay in an urban/suburban/inner city environment, then you have chosen to limit your survival possibilities AND probabilities, in all but the most minor of disasters. I chose to leave the suburbs in a top 10 urban metropolitan area in 1988. Moved to a small city that is not on the 285 listed in “U.S. cities by population” on wikipedia AND then moved out to the “country” from there. Close enough to not be completely in BFE but far enough away to be snug and secure on my little piece of heaven. To be sure, it is situational as to what choice to make, but the key is to be in the right place (as much as that is possible, and it can be to a significant degree) when the Schumer hits the fan. Preparation OF location seems to be the most overlooked prep of all, IMHO.

      24. Plan A for me is always, always, bugging in. Here, we have food, unlimited water, fish, game, heat and good land. We are reasonably safe here because we are isolated, barring things unforeseen.

        However, I also have plans B and C because you never know what’s coming down the pipe. It could be a situation where you could lay low for a few days or it could be a more permanent bug out (a very last resort for me.)

        We have caches and shelter for a brief bugout to the woods. We have gear that can be quickly loaded for a never-coming-back bug out.

        Eventually I hope to have plan D, a remote well-stocked location accessible only on foot, but I need some money to fall out of the sky before that is realistic.

        • @Daisy….wish you were closer to me here in Eastern Ontario…as I purchased 50 acres 5 yrs ago, (very remote) no road in and a bit of a problem, as there is a small pond on the very edge of the property(where you would access this land).

          We had dreams of cutting a road in, or buying an argo to get over the pond, but unfortunately, nothing materialized as life got in the way…..This is day 30, and dh is still in hospital, (may be discharged on Tues.) but still lots of health issues……and I don’t know what kind of a nurse I will make!! Thank God homecare will come in each day at least for awhile to teach me about his care…..

          Getting back to the land, not sure what will happen to it, as for now it belongs to the deer and moose (I guess) but would be nice if someone like yourself could use it in the event of SHTF…..

          I also have to give you a lot of credit for your blog, as I have been visiting from time to time, (and trying some of your great canning recipes, (also made the cough surup last night…..can’t wait to try it!! THANX!!

          Take care to all of you who sent prayers to my dh, and you all know who you are…..CC

          • CC ~ I’m pleased to hear your husband is on the mend and will be coming home to you soon. I am absolutely sure you will make a very fine nurse because you have one thing that no amount of knowledge can surpass: love.

            Please feel free to contact me anytime – daisyluther at ymail dot com. I’m thinking of you – I know it’s a rough road ahead but you have the right mindset. We’re all pulling for you!


      25. Can I ask y’all something?
        O.k. my boyfriend’s family member needs a home aaaaaand guess where my boyfriend wants his family member to live?? He wants to set him up on our property.
        Do I seem unenthusiastic? heh…
        Well I have agreed to the possibility of the arrangement.
        Now here is the question…
        Do I have a right to expect him to do as the Romans do, as the saying goes? Do I have a right to say, “If you’re living on this property, you’ll be growing a garden and raising chickens”? Do I have the right to say, “Welcome to the world of WOOD heat?”
        It’s just that I expect them to be useful, sensible, and…you know…NOT a potential threat….

        • Welcome to your new homesteaders.

        • Yes, you do have that right..or they can leave..no free loaders, period ..pull your weight, or hit the road

          able bodied people should make themselfs useful, if your already having fears that he will be lazy and not contribute, than I would say you shouldnt allow this move.

        • I feel for you, HM.

          The fact that you even have these questions leads me to believe that your instincts will be proven correct. The real bitch is that once the freeloader moves in, it’ll take a monster truck to drag ’em out. I’m sure it REALLY makes your blood boil that your BF KNOWS how his relative is.

        • I’d have said no. In fact I have said no in that situation.

          Any “family member” that can’t already pull their weight in the real world, and so needs to bunk in with a relative, is almost certain to become a deficit operation pretty quickly. But you having already agreed, make sure to apply a full load of responsibility right away. Better to find out what they’re going to be sooner rather than later. Maybe you’ll get lucky.

        • Unless he’s buying property from you, he’s a guest. So yes, you can make rules. You may have to get a new boyfriend out of this.

          If all goes well, you could have a good addition to your homestead. If not, you detract from your capabilities. Work the equation out and see what it tells you.

        • no work-um and able, no eat-um, /live-um.Blend willingly or leave is choices..IMHO.

        • kill him immeadiately

      26. I like my plan better, already bugged out to Wyoming.Noticed last week the record cold a few years back was -45. People who aren’t preped don’t live here.

        • I’ve thought of Montana and Wyoming, but you’re right, I could not handle the cold. Just flat out could NOT do it. Definitely a good choice for locations. 🙂

          • In fact it’s not that bad most of the time; the sky is clear and low wind when it’s cold. It’s also usually dry. The point is you need to pay attention, you cannot live under a fig tree as they do in Ca. You must pay attention, the lazy and stupid just don’t like it.

            • Cold hurts me…so you are right most ppl will not be coming for your door.I’m glad you like it there, It’ll be less crowded here. lots of luck!

        • Nah. Im in south florida with the big booty Mexican hoes and the beach and the dance clubs. Wouldnt wanna be you old white men out in the cold in Montana raising chickens.


        • Damn, 81 today in the San Diego area. Expected to be that way for the next two weeks. Nice as that is we need rain more than sunshine.

          • For all you a-holes with the thumbs down it is 82 today and a light breeze. Then again it is still Mexifornia where us honkies will be a minority by the ned of 2013.

            • Beat them at their own game. Marry those mexican girls and breed the brown out of them. Lord, those mexicans sure do love to make babies.

      27. Just watching tv when this Northwestern Mutual commercial came on…

        Who the hell promostes tge tower of babel in a commercial? Evil Corporations, thats who!


      28. No brainer for my family, Bug In. We have vase knowledge of the local area (10mi+ radius), 95% in that area are peppers and the 5% not will not last 3 days. As for outside defenses we are layered out to 250 yards,(fences, trip wires, pungy pits etc.), 360 degrees, wide open approaches and clear fields of fire. Yard activity is concealed (like garden, water supply, etc.), with enough personnel to maintain OP’S and LP’S 24/7. We are staying put.

        • Envy Pale Rider, trapped as I am in deep enemy territory….SoCal. Armed & stockpiled tho, so I’ll stay put, look for an opportunity to do the local Tyranny some real damage before I go under.

          • SP: I know you will stand tall and give them their just do. I’m here in fly over land, and will do the same.

          • Cool handle…ever read of the exploits of Hans-Ulrich Rudel?

            • YES I DID!!! TANK KILLER.

        • @pale rider:

          My first section chief (SFC Grigsby, God rest his soul) did three tours in Vietnam. We were chatting early one morning, and got on the topic of perimeter security.

          He said they used to string out 30 lb test monofilament fishing line at waist, chest, and face height, and tie on heavy fishing hooks, 4/0 or bigger, about every foot or so. He said they painted the hooks with flat black paint, and made them damn near invisible after dusk.

          He said once you’re hung up in it, it’s better than razor wire.

          • KySSG: Look at nails in plywood for (punji pits), makes nice ones you can move around. Trip wire, mouse traps, and shotgun shell (claymores)and warning sounds, just get to thinking. Yes I know about the fish hook trick.
            THX for the info.

          • Don’t like the fish hooks or dead falls, too many deer and other wild live here. (food)However I make my oun explosives and there will be surprises. We live in the hills of Montana. No AR15 for me it’s like a BB gun.

      29. I live in the Arizona desert. WATER Water water… I will be staying where it is easy to get to my water supply and have protection from Heat and The Desert Cold. Staying HOME.

        • Lots of water here (and shelter)for those who know the desert well and how (and where) to cope.

          Exposure to either heat or cold is always a problem anywhere, but in the right place in Arizona the difference is easy to mitigate against.

          Lots of game to augment supplies too. Its not paradise, but its home.

      30. I agree fully. At first when I started to worry about when SHTF I only planned on bugging out but then I figured, why? I am in a relatively safe area and my main concern is getting back to it so I consider my bug out bag more of a get home bag since I am out of town alot.

      31. Baby diapers and politicians should be changed
        often and usually for the same reasons.

        • LOL… I will remember that for future use. I also agree.

      32. I live in a small town 100 miles away from a major metro area. I think I’m far enough away. I have a year’s supply of food for 4 adults + 1500 gallons of water in my basement. We have guns and ammo. Ways to heat our home and cook our food. We plan on using 5 gallon buckets as toilets. We have snap-on toilet seats for them. We’ll use kitty litter to cover the smell. I don’t plan on going outside except to dump buckets of poo at 3 AM. We’ll put plywood over our windows from the inside to keep it dark and make it look like it isn’t lived in. We’ll take turns guarding the house from the inside 24/7.

        • @Barn Cat….

          I like your plan overall…but consider these points…

          1. If you are forced to try to get to your retreat on foot, calculate just how many miles you’ll be able to cover in a day. How many miles per day can you hump a 40 or 50 lb pack? 10 miles maybe? Before you say 20 miles, ask yourself if you’ve actually done it yet. Now….do you have small children in your household? If you do, you’re going to have to carry their stuff as well. And how many miles can your children cover on foot in a day? What if you have an aged mother or father to take care of?

          Let’s say you and your family COULD cover 10 miles. That’s a 10 day journey…..IF and only IF you’ve got no one impeding your progress or trying to do you harm. And you’ve got to feed yourself and your family on the way. Unless you are beating the crowd, you are not going to be alone in your abandonment of the city. Food may very well be in short supply….as may clean water as well. And places where you can get water or food just might be pretty inhospitable.

          These thoughts were going through my mind today as I took a 5 mile hike on a wooded trail near my home. I was carrying a pack that probably weighs about 25 lbs and it has pretty much everything I would need for 2 days in the field. It does not have however a sleeping bag or small tent….just emergency blanket. But it has water purification, first-aid and other survival essentials….plus about 3 MRE entrees.

          But the thought that went through my mind was this….what if I had to cover a considerable distance? Looking around me in the woods, I was struck with the fact that I don’t have a good knowledge of what is edible…if anything. So that means on a long trek, I’ve got to acquire food….and that’s a real problem. Face it…we’ve not all had wilderness survival or SERE training. And we are not all in the best of physical condition to be humping a pack that has EVERYTHING we would need over long distances.

          These are things that need to be thought out.

          I suspect that by the time most people begin to flee the cities, it will be impossible to flee the cities…..and survive.

          These are just my rambling thoughts on this. And I don’t like the conclusions I’ve come to.

          • If I have to leave my home it’s a death sentence. We wouldn’t have a place to go or anything once we got there.

        • BC

          I would reconsider the inside guard only scenario.

          You need a perimeter guard or listening post outside at all times…especially at night!
          As you don’t want someone burning you out with Molotov cocktails at 4am.

          If you have the manpower you must do this, it will contribute immensely to your small town bug-in choice of survival mode.
          Rotate guards at uneven intervals…as you never know who’s observing. Never be predictable!
          Never stick to a pattern!

          It is imperative that you secure a decent form of radio comms(look into CB and MRS type units for starters).

          Secure a solar recharger for the rechargeable batteries your going to need, in a bug-in situation!

          Have prior agreed upon “rules of engagement” by the listening post personnel.

          Good luck.

          • I just got my ham radio license, a $40 Baofeng ham radio and a $25 Opteka solar charger from amazon. For the price its a great little setup.

        • we will lie in waiting…and kill you when you emerge…or simply burn you out

          • Not if we frag you first!!!

      33. You don’t want to live too close to a big city after the collapse. The suburbs will be a death trap after the collapse. So will places like Phoenix that are too hot and don’t have easy access to water.

        • Barn Cat: Everybody has a pool. Not everybody has a Berkey. You can make your neighbor’s cats and dog last a couple of days. Your neighbor might last a week if you have enough ice to keep ’em cold. 🙂

          Actually, there are some really great Bug Out locations near Phoenix for the well informed.

          Not every one is well informed.

        • Why would the suburbs be a deathtrap?

          • Because the criminal welfare types will kick in doors so they can rob, rape, and murder everybody as they search for food, water, guns, and drugs. It will be a million times worse than the riots of the 60s.

      34. I’m gonna hang right here where I’m at. What comes, comes. I’ve got several plans that deal with my close proximity. Any withdrawling I have to do will be at the opposing force’s cost.





        • Um, I think the incident was at a gun show where a guy had a loaded shotgun in a case, and it jarred off when was opening it for the security check at the door. OK, a moron for casing the gun while it was loaded. Security was morons for not orienting their table so a gun would point in a safe direction, but it had nothing to do with the Gun Appreciation Day.

      36. Bug-In vs Bug-Out; either is alright for sudden, widespread catastophies but unless there’s a nuclear war, comet strike, massive EMP, or new plague. What is more likely is what we are seeing now, the continued downward spiral of the entire planet’s economy brought about by large central banks devaluing currencies like the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen, and others. Our economy is deteriorating and along with it our standard of living. It’s a long, slow decay that most others don’t even notice. There will be some big bumps along the way and each time we’ll hit a new bottom and think the ‘ride’ is over like 2000 DotCom and 2008 crashes. Smaller bumps have been occuring long before and in between these. And they will continue until we wake up one day and most of our services are gone and we’re back in the late 1800’s. Get you skills ready folks.

        • There’s going to be a sudden crash. When Germany had hyperinflation it started slow but then took off. It started out with 4 marks to the dollar. Eventually it was a billion marks to the dollar. The dollar will die when OPEC no longer accepts it as payment for oil. Millions will starve once a loaf of bread costs $100, gas is $200 a gallon, and the electrical grid goes down because nobody can afford their electric bills. The dollar could collapse tomorrow if China dumped all their dollars on the market at once.

      37. Bug In ;0) or Bug Out ;0P … Bug Out ;0) is the way to go , have 3 known mapped back up emergency naturally hard sheltered points of varying distances 10 20 30 miles , up to a full tank of gas traveling distance if necessary .

        I prefer being up in the hills woods and higher valleys along the fire roads / logging camps .

        Less two-legged predators , safer environment to just set back watch the u.n. zog fedgov martial law dhs gestapo’s show below on the valley floor around the towns .

        They will control you with fedgov stategov issued rfid chip i.d. (mark of the beast) controlled access to clean food water medical care shelter !

        It’s just best to get lost UP IN THE WOODS for a few months if you can !

        ~N.O. ;0p

        • I agree,… If the enemy knows where you are then dont be there… But its going to be a bitch bugging out with wife and kids. I guess its better than being dead or in a fema camp

      38. Get your beans, bullets, bandaids, and bullion while you still can. All this fuss over gun control is just a smoke screen. What the governments, Federal and several states, want to do is raise taxes on guns, ammo, and other shooting supplies. Illinois also wants to records kept on bullion sales as well. Why you ask. These governments, like Illinois, have large unfunded liablities and they need the money-period! They’ve promised too much for far too long and now the bills are due and they don’t have the cash. It won’t be long before more states and the feds jump on that bandwagon as well as all other prepper supplies. We’ll be an easy target by painting us as dangerous doomers in need of control. And how better to control folks than through taxation. Long term storage food, water purification, and even camping supplies may be next. They want us all to be weak and dependent upon government for every need. Don’t get caught short folks.

        • I think NYS has already floated a trial baloon on the PMs transaction records thing. I can see no non-nefarious reason for such a regulation.

          If you rent a “safe deposit” box (AKA bankster care package), take in an empty non-descript container or some important-looking documentation and deposit it in the box. Discretely remove anything you are not willing to give to the banksters or .gov.

      39. As a silent pack member of M.D. Creekmore’s clan – thanks! Very Excellent Site.
        Good to see your article here ~ like minds naturally group together. Good points, while a bit broad. The variables are endless.
        Hope this opens some eyes to spend a minute thinking “ummm.. what is my situation and what if it got real bad, real fast.’

        Thanks, Mac!

      40. We live on our homestead in the sticks. I plan on bugging in for the most part.

        But I am not stupid! If I see an overhelming force coming in my direction it is grab the bug out band and guns and head for the hills. I will not take a care as we live up against a national forest.

        Love to hike and have many cashes around our area.

        God has lead me to where I am in life right now. God gives me comfort and advise when I need it. I love God and he loves me.

        I am not one to push my God on others, but I will stand up for my natural given rights from God against anyone.

        God bless and keep on prepping.

        • God will strike you dead for your hoarding and sins!!!

      41. Good to plan!…but if you plan on bugging out you best have it setup ahead of time..once the shtf isnt time to be getting ready…that so called wilderness is likely already home to someone whos been livin it awhile and they might not feel real friendly to you and yours moving in on what they may own or feel they have rights to…best think it through!

      42. I was an Eagle Scout in WVa. I spend 9 months of my life living in a tent in the great outdoors, and I taught the wilderness survival class. I think that bugging out is suicidal unless you have a cabin with off-the-grid power and water capabilities.

        The actual supplies you need for wilderness survival far exceeds what you can carry in a pack. Think it over. BOBs are stupid. Most preppers are living in a reality TV induced fantasy world.

        The only reason to leave your domicile would be natural disaster or war. And Ive bugged in for the last few hurricanes on the Gulf Coast with no problem.

        All this talk about you barricading your doors and making your last stand with your rifle is idiotic. Society still continues to function after an economic collapse. What you have to be prepared for is getting mugged on the street, home invasion, $7 gas, and bare shelves in the stores. Watch the interviews with Selco and Ferfal and the miami prepper. Listen to people who have lived through it and then adapt their knowledge to your situation.

        I dont hear anyone talking about training in martial arts. You guys need to do that. Youre much more likely to get into a physical confrontation over your wallet than the marines breaking down your door.

        • Good post. I would also recommend becoming proficient at handling a knife for protection and carrying one at all times. Sometimes it is impractical to carry a gun, but a knife can almost always be carried and in a hand to hand confrontation can turn the tide in your favor quickly.

          • I was in a martial arts class where we were training with a rubber knife with an ink well to simulate cuts and a low-velocity paintball gun. Since most confrontations occur at conversational distance, we started the drill from that distance. The man with the gun was never, not even once, able to draw the gun and get a shot off. The man with the knife always wins. Ive seen it demonstrated to me, and indeed participated in the drill, over and over again. So, yes, ever since then I’ve carried a knife. BUT, you never carry a weapon youre not ready and willing to use if your life is at risk. Most people couldnt really stick someone with a knife if it came down to that.

        • Let me amend my remarks: When I was living in the woods in a tent, I had family and friends deliver me supplies at least once a week. I’m an expert at this stuff and I’m nowhere near ready to live by hunting fishing and foraging alone (although those are great skills to have). So that there shows you how extremely difficult it really is. In my opinion, prepping is not only not about the back to the land mentality, its ironically about consumerism. Every spare bit of money you can save, you purchase more stuff that buys you some more time in a disaster. But make no mistake, man by himself has no chance.

          • @E….If you were a neighbor of mine, YOU would be the person I would keep both eyeballs on….


            • Grandma,

              I’m young, blond, and built.

              Your eyes would be ALL over me.


              • NOPE….my eyeballs would be on you because you would be one not to be trusted….

                • WHY would I not be trusted? I’m very trustworthy. I’m offended that you dont think of me as an honest individual. You might need my help, you know. Old people cant do too much for themselves.

        • The idea that the military will come a knocking is logistically impossible…and most,not all, will be protecting their own families..

          DHS and the rest would be protecting their assets and hi level employees of the corp..

          The worst case scenario imho will be the totally unprepared average neighbors….and they are the majority here in blue state country..and not armed either.


      43. I think that anyone who lives in a big city should plan on leaving. There are many low-lifers whose only plan is to take from others

      44. Be assured that when the SHTF even some of the most die-hard “I will never surrender” preppers will freak out and cave in to the tremendous pressure to conform and that some of the current ‘zombies’ out there will spring to action and stand firm in the face of danger and death. We do not know how we will act until an actual situation occurs. The crash will be instantaneous, there will be very little time to run; if we don’t act soon (before the crash), we will be stuck where we are now. This coming collapse is not just the end of civilization, it is the scenario prophesied in the Book of Revelation, and you can mark my words on that. We will need to be on God’s side and have His protection.

        • I have read that personality traits often reverse themselves during a crisis.

        • and YOU will burn in eternal hell for your selfish ways!!!!

      45. Depending on the circumstance we will either bug in or bug out. Bug in for storms, or an earthquake (California).

        If is a total economic breakdown and the hordes are looking for food and looting. We have already agreed to go to a friends in the local mountains with 40 acres. We take EVERYTHING i.e. food, guns, ammo, metals, clothing, vehicles and our trailer….and the dog. Everything else like furniture, tv…etc are just stuff…leave them behind

        We have a group that will go there and have more that enough to guard our compound. Sits on a hill with great view of surrounding land. Easy 100 yard kill zone if it gets that bad.

        Bought more ammo today and my wife says…”you know what ever is coming we cannot stop, so lets just be prepared as we can and enjoy life by not worrying” and then she told the guy at the gun store…”when you get that one 308 next week call me. I will be here in 5 minutes and buy it”

        What a wife!!!

        • Sounds like you definitely have a keeper there, Steve! Best to you and yours.

        • One BLESSED dude.

      46. I’m thinking bug-in, but not altogether sure what the best means of keeping things protected is. I’ve considered some sheets of plywood and 2x4s to put over the (sliding) back door and the downstairs windows to keep out ne’er-do-wells, but am open to other ideas.

      47. every atheist or non believer that i have come to know and watched get into trouble or die have done so with “oh God” on their lips…hmmmmm, that sure gives me something to think about and believing in.

        • It is called culture. Even if an american was raised atheist the sheer volume of exposure to christianity will “pollute the well”. The language is full of references from the bible. If you are using the fact that americans use american cultural english (phrases like; oh god, jesus christ, go to heaven/hell…) as some sort of “proof” of god then simply spend some time anywhere else on earth. You will find that if common parlance is what is worth “thinking about and believing in” then the weight of evidence does not fall on the christian gods side of the scales.

      48. Bug in and shoot out!

      49. Hi All.

        Lots of great posts, I’m almost out of thumbs up,lol.

        We are bugging in as plan A. We live 200yds from the Pacific Ocean, thus an awesome food and water source.

        We have BOLs as plan B, and Plan C, just in case.

        Several local prepper families to fortify our location, plus another seven friend and family members coming over as we are everyone’s plan A.

        Hope for the best, and all that.

        …be safe…stay the course….BA.

        • BA- I like the new sign! (while you were reading the sign, I was stealing your truck!) 🙂

          Now, what are we going to do with the inlaws when it’s time to hunker down? Some of mine would be definite assets. They’d more than pull their weight. A few however, I’m not even sure they’d fetch much on the white slave market after we neutered them.
          Fortunately the wife is on the same page with me, and it’s opsec all the way….sssshhhh. The slackers (my relatives and hers) have no idea what plans or preps we have. Only those we’d trust with our lives know anything about our situation. And only Me, Mrs Okie, and God know the full inventory.

          • @Okie:

            Praise from you is praise indeed, Sir.

            I do not know what is coming, but I do not like what my gut is telling me.

            Went by the gun store to thank those fine folks for providing a needed service, and now, even in NorCal, the shelves are starting to run dry of ammo.I picked up a few boxes to top off the practice cache and some speed loaders.

            If the gravy train ever stops, or the banks call a holiday, the results will not be pretty. Load it up, line it up, and laugh it up, for tomorrow we die.

            ….just kidding, tomorrow we die sounded cooler than tomorrow we bake….lol…

            Stay safe and well Sir, you and yours, for tomorrow we die…oops, there I go again….Bake,I meant bake, honest injun…lol.

            ..in the mud…in the blood…BA.

        • Water source? You’re going to drink salt water?

          • @Smokey:

            Salt water is easily distilled.

            And the by product is sea salt…

            …heavy metals….

            …radioactive isotopes(thank you Fukishima)…

            ..and the hits keep a comin….

            ..Be safe…BA.

            • OK, hope you got your still parts already.

              Don’t forget to pick up the molecular gold from the sea water, as well, might as well make a little money at it!

              • @Smokey:

                I have a wood fire still(distiller), a solar distiller, and in a pinch will use a pot and a cup.

                Gold…hmmm…now you got me thinkin’….lol.

                Have a safe day Sir.

                …I’ll see you on the beach…..BA.

        • I hope you have radiation detectors for that pacific seafood. i wouldnt eat anything from the pacific after fukushima unless i lived south of the equator.

      50. OT-ish:

        TPTB are reeeeaaaallllyyyyy trying.
        So with today being “Guns Across America” and Gun Appreciation Day, I was kinda expecting some “incident” today specifically involving firearms to continue giving guns a bad name.

        …sure enough, after decades upon decades of ZERO incidents involving shootings of any kind at gunshows across the nation, it just happens that TODAY, there are 3 DIFFERENT INCIDENTS AT 3 DIFFERENT GUN SHOWS.
        They all involoved “accidental” shootings, but c’mon…seriously??? What are the odds of 3 i ncidents happening at 3 different locations on this specific day????


        • These were at gun shows, not Gun Appreciation Day, the two are not linked in any way.

          I would think the shows have brought double the usual number of attendees, with double the guns to check, etc., etc. So the risk of negligent discharges are definitely higher.

      51. Well we live on 60 acres of woodland, with running streams filled with fish, excellant soil for gardening. One way in and out with our entire family. We survived Katrina, without electricity for 20 days, didn’t need big brother then don’t need him now. The wrong people comes down our road better be lost or coming for a visit, if not the turn out wont be as they hope. We have a backhoe, plan to trench out impassable ditch on our road and live like my great granddaddy did back in the depression. God bless this country and I’m waiting for the call to take it back.

        • Stay frosty, the call up may be sooner than we expect.

        • Cover said ditch and turn it into a vehicle trap.

      52. Mona Lisa lost her smile,
        And the painter’s hands are trembling now.
        –David Allan Coe

        Moochelle has a new do! Actually, it’s a wig. Probably cost about 50,000 taxpayer bucks, although that’s just a guess. What’s most startling is the way she looks.
        Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed the first lady’s striking resemblance to those ancient Egyptian pictures? You know, the ones of Queen Hapshepsut from about 1500BC. Is she also going to debut her false beard at the innaugural ball? Just wondering.
        With or without the whiskers, she definitely should NOT do the funky chicken in that hairdo! It would violate the last vestiges of decency in America. I might even call the dignity police myself.
        One other thing- someone should tell her not to smile so broadly. She looks like Jimmy Carter’s love child. Or maybe the long lost biracial Osmond sister. Not sure why she does that. Maybe it’s just instinctive- when you win the lottery you just can’t help the big grin. Or maybe it’s from her childhood, and playing after dark, when the neighbor kids would say ‘smile so we can XXXXX’ (censored by US Dept Of Politically Correct Speech)

        • Okie her features remind me of one of those critters from Planet of the Apes.

        • Shes grinnin like a banshee cause she gets to suck the marrow outta our bones…now that she and her kenyan manchild have chewed our hide clean off…guess she loves America even more now eh?

      53. When you live 4 miles from a nuclear Power plant you may HAVE to bug out. IF we get hit with a powerful CME or EMP my power plant may go down hard time and may not be able to cool the fuel rods for the two weeks it needs to get them to a cold (non-reactive) state.
        My plan is to bug in BUT in case I am forced from my home. I am taking long drives up-wind of my power plant and looking for abandoned homes, near a source of water. But I am only looking for homes that are 100 miles up wind and that are very close to a water supply. IF I have to bug out I will have to take everything with me, solar panels, batteries, water filters, food, everything must go as I will NOT be able to return to get anything later in a radiological disaster. I will make maps and notes where this bugout home is and I will have to make it on one tank of gas. And I will have to start keeping my gas tank full for just such an occasion. IF the warning sirens go off it will take me hours to get everything ready to bug out but at least I am making plans for that as well.
        Prep hard – Prep Fast
        Hell On Earth Is Coming With A Vngeance!

      54. We need an article on bugging out to an alternative location, as not all of us live in the country OR have relatives that live in the country and some live near nuclear Power plants etc. and may have to leave even IF they don’t plan on it.
        Like one guy writes “I live next to a FEMA Death Camp, Should I plan on bugging out OR bugging in?”
        I think thats a given: YOU RUN LIKE HELL!!!
        This could be a very good article for your blog

        • I moved from my hometown 5 years ago because I did not feel it was a safe place. You have to be willing to give up a cushy job and extended family and do whats right for you and yours. I have now made a very fine home and living in a much safer place. In other words now is the time to get to your so called bugout location.

        • I have been ruminating on re-inventing the “underground railroad” for those who have no place to bug-out to…obviously, going to a relatively secure location, or even one that is more secure than where you are, would be of value….any thoughts on this? I am in, in the event anyone needs it….

          • Involving others in your plans is a bad idea.

      55. I think most of us here look at this article through the eyes of experienced preppers. But for the newbie to the field, this is very valuable perspective, which needs restating about every two weeks, nowadays.

      56. I’m 12 miles from downtown San Bernardino and I’m not leaving. The LA riots ended here. 50 people bum rushed Target in SB and security smoked one, that was the end of riots in San Bernardino County. Just remember a refugee has a safe place to go, an evacuee is a walking target.

      57. Definitely “Bug In’. I live out of town in the woods and I’m close to our ten acre goat farm where I have quite a bit of supplies stored/hidden in the barn. I’ve prepared to protect the homestead with lots of guns, ammo, a pit bull, and seclusion. I have no better place to bug out to and if it came to that, things would have to be completely planet of the apes like. I still think protecting my home would be easier than any bug out scenario I can imagine. I could never mobilize all of the benefits I’ve prepared to have at my home.

        • Not to mention, I have a family which would at to the difficulty of bugging out.

      58. Having lived through the Northridge earthquake in 1994, I was 5 days without power, 8 days without water. My parents house, where I was still living at the time, sustained major damage, but it was still sound enough to continue living in, though the front have of the house had to e demolished and rebuilt. The pool in the backyard had water to flush toilets, which was helpful with the use of one gallon buckets. Flashlights are essential, as well as batteries for them and your radio. The radio was the ony way to figure out what was going on since we had no power for TV. Papers come one day later. Other parts of L.A. Had water, but required chlorine bleach for treatment. My Mom’s business was in an industrial kitchen so we could bring home food from the shop since that area had power for refridgeration restored quickly after the quake. The area where our house was was the last area to have power restored.

        Fatigue from constant aftershocks is common. You become a bit shell shocked and numb to it after a few days. Sleep can and will be frequently interrupted by aftershocks. Go to bed when the sun goes down, because you’ll get early morning shocks to wake you.

        My husband (boyfriends at the time) lived in an apartment hear the epicenter. He was out of town on business all month, so when he came back two weeks after the quake he had power, but problems with building management meant there was no hot water heater for the building for another six weeks.

        For laundry, my sister lived 20 minutes away. The area she lived in didn’t lose power, but water still had to be bleached for consumption. Showers at her house were the only option as well. Be sure to have baby wipes on hand. Three days without a bath and in unseasonably warm weather in January lead to some rashness under the armpits. Don’t forget to clean face, neck, hands, groin and pits when in an emergency situation, because trying to find diaper rash creme (best stuff for red, tender areas due to sweat, urine) in an emergency situation is not optimal.

        So bugging in is what we did, but had to drive elsewhere for things. At least electricity for the gas pumps got restored soon.

        Primary list to consider to shelter in place/bug in: Food, water (extra to flush toilets optimal), baby wipes, batteries, flashlights, radio, alternate cooking method (impromptu brick rocket stove or camp stove with lots of butane canisters). Also, in the event of roof damage, large tarps. And in case it takes time to restore electricity locally, keep your tank at least half filled.

      59. I am confident God will give all believers fair warning when it is time to bug out, I have my 5th wheel ready to roll at a moments notice, I will haul it out to our predetermined location, remote yet can get cell service on a nearby ridge (if it still works) and local tv stations in the camper, once the rest of the group shows up our plan is to have 2 men on patrol at all times, the women and children will be at camp full time while us men will make trips back into town if possible to assist in the fight, my goal has always been to fight til the end but my wife and kids must be protected and with a trusted group in a safe area first! The plan is still coming together but I have confidence that God will assist in the plans and will help with the resistance! What’s the worst that could happen? I die and the first thing I see will be the face of Jesus? Sounds good to me!

        • @montanan, i think god is telling you and you just aren’t listening.

        • quote dhs insider :

          They are planning to use TSA agents in tandem with local police for certain operations that are being planned right now. This is so [deleted] important that you cannot even begin to imagine. If you get nothing else out of this, please, please make sure you tell people to watch the TSA and their increasing involvement against the American public. They are the stooges who will be the ones to carry out certain plans when the dollar collapses and the gun confiscation begins.

          • the plan is to let the people suffer so they beg for u.n. dhs martial law …

            I am hearing that the plan from up high is to let the chaos play out for a while, making ordinary citizens beg for troops to be deployed to restore order. but it’s all organized to make them appear as good guys. That’s when the real head knocking will take place. We’re talking travel restrictions, which should not be a problem because gas will be rationed or unavailable. The TSA will be in charge of travel, or at least be a big part of it. They will be commissioned, upgraded from their current status.

            They, I mean Jarrett and Obama as well as a few others in government, are working to create a perfect storm too. This is being timed to coincide with new gun laws.

            got enough food , water . ammo ???

            • What they don’t realize is that all we need is about 30 days to clean it all up. Illegals, druggies, criminals, the lot.

      60. OK, I realize I may get thumbs down for a certain part of what I’m about to say, but the following IS my plan. I’m hunkering down in the middle of an urban area; it’s my only realistic option. Back before Y2K, I tried to buy a cabin on 10 acres with a pond and part of the property bordered on a spring-fed creek. I saw things like what we are experiencing now coming even then. The place I’m talking about was going to be my BOL. That idea was killed by the bank rejecting my mortgage application. that was the only time i ever tried to use credit for anything. I know, I know, my chances of survival in a city are pretty low. I would love to be in a rural area with a place like i just described, but in my case, it’s not going to happen, so I’m “bugging in” in a city. Yes, the cities will become death traps after the balloon goes up. I’m stocked up with food, water, water purification items, medical supplies, guns, ammo, etc. and still getting more. I fully expect nonpreppers to come to my home to try and take what I have. I really fear and dread what i may have to do in order to survive. I’ve always wondered if I ever got into a situation with a two-legged predator if I would have what it takes to pull the trigger. i won’t really know for sure until it happens and i’m certain it will. Ever since Election Day and Obama started saying he’s coming after the guns, my nerves have been on edge, I’ve been getting anxious, depressed, etc. I’ve been worked up on this gun issue just like everyone else. Some nights i break down and cry, knowing what’s coming to this land. however, once TSHTF, I belive I’ll have what it takes to see me through. These are indeed trying times for all of us. I fear for all of us. best wishes to all. braveheart

        • @braveheart. I feel your pain,I have been stressed as well, but I think it is dependent on the urban area in which you live….if you live in a city such as NY, LA, Detroit, etc. I would say move now if possible! I live in a city of about 45,000 whose citizens I think, for the most part, believe as I do…..and I pray that I am making the correct choice in staying in familiar territory……if the need arises, however, I have an alternate plan to leave, although it would take me a month to get there on foot and would be a physical hardship…..I sincerely wish I had some words of wisdom or inspiration to impart, but I don’t….I will say, however, (and I say this to myself as well) please try not to allow the angst you feel to overwhelm you….I understand completely that it feels somewhat as if we are all going into the future in blindfolds, as we do not know exactly What is going to occur….
          My Mother always used to tell me “have Faith” and I often say that to myself…
          Have Faith, Braveheart, you are not alone

          • Just a side note here…..Having Faith is also having Faith in yourself….where your inner strength lies is where your heart is…

        • braveheart

          To hell with any one with thumbs down.
          Live day to day and enjoy what you have if you can.
          Find humor
          Find peace
          Find beauty around you.
          Everyone must sustain their humanity every day.
          It is what nourishes and strengthens us..and brings resolve.
          Never ever let the world around you diminish you nor your spirit..
          It is not easy but it does take individual strength to overcome.
          I face it every day as well and then shake it off and do what I must do to see through each day..

          Stay well

          You are not alone..



          • Well said Posse….I concur

        • you have a lot to offer a group. maybe that would be an option? problem is finding like minded others.

          • You are absolutely correct Tater!…..I live in southwest MO and folks such as Braveheart would be welcomed with open arms!

      61. The biggest longterm threat is a black congress who will legislate against the whites, like Hitler did to the Jews. Stay armed.

      62. Horrible Truck Accidents 2012

        if buggin out … wear your seat belt and look both ways at all the intersections … drive defensively .


      63. Living on a 300 acre farm, I’ll be “Bugging In”. Having already survived the Ice Storm of 1998 – 2 weeks without electricity in January in Canada – it’s my belief that our biggest immediate threat is a weather related event; meaning it’s temporary in most instances. Temporary may be anywhere from a few days, a few weeks to a few months. Further most weather events won’t require “Bugging Out” unless there’s a threat of flooding or extremely violent weather. However one lesson we learned in spades is that when services go down you are definitely on your own. The only person looking after you is – you guessed it- you! So you do need to be prepared!

        There’s some good news in all of this:

        – you most likely won’t need to “Bug Out”
        – only a small cache of food, water, fuel and other supplies is needed, because you can go out of the affected zone to buy things to continue your “Bug In” state until normal services are restored
        – by the time you need to make a “Bug Out” decision, authorities will have established some control over egress routes and established some basic feeding and shelter stations in a safe location.

        There’s also some bad news here too:

        – there will be businesses out there profiteering from the disaster. If you need to buy/replace some items such as generators, expect shortages and outrageous prices
        – some of your neighbors will become looters. Expect to have to provide your own security and protect your property on your own. The authorities will be too busy dealing with restoring/protecting infrastructure to respond to your needs. During the Ice Storm of 1998 we had intruders on our property. They were dispatched in short order.

        In the event that we would have to “Bug Out” we could easily and quickly evacuate using our travel trailer which is always ready to go at a moments notice. Also we have family located along multiple north, west and east egress routes leaving us a number of options to get out of the area. However, things would have to be really, really, really bad for us to go down that road.

        • I got hit by that ’98 ice storm too Steve, in Maine. Didn’t have a generator yet, but had the wood stove, lots of canned food and a dozen hurricane lamps!!!

      64. Concerning the Biblical principles of bugging out, consider the children of Isreal, led by Moses out of the captivity of Egypt. How about Lot and his family being delivered from the imminent destruction of Sodom and Gamorah. Lets not forget Joseph and Mary escaping Egypt in the dark of night to the relative safety of a manger in Bethlahem. The fact is, bugging out is a biblical option, provided the inclusion God’s direction. Recently, I discovered Psalm 18 to show incredible insight into these matters. Read it and perhaps you’ll agree. One more thing… the moral conundrum of whether or not to fight back. Again, Psalm 18 is outstanding! The short answer is yes, God enables one to fight. Even “teaching my hands to war”. Read and be encouraged. Finally, Ecclesiastes 3 simply reminds us that there is a time for everything i.e. a time for peace and a time for war. It is what it is. As for me I will worship the Lord AND I will keep my AR-15 locked and loaded.

      65. Celente: The 2013 Financial Collapse Will Be One For The Ages

        The only reason why the world economy is even teetering along at this level right now is because all of the central banks are printing money. All they are doing is devaluing the currencies. They’re debasing the currencies. Why would anybody want to hold this stuff (fiat money)? So I believe gold prices, no matter what they do, are going to continue to move higher. And I put my money where my mouth is, I keep buying.”

      66. GET the hell “ALL OUT” OF THE STOCK MARKET

        Ann Barnhardt – A Matter of Record



        ~N.O. ;0p


        A Female Woman 911 Caller In Home Invasion Screams for Help no one was there to help her but Smith&Wesson – Must Listen

        A Long Time known Stalker Predator co-worker of a woman Breaks into the Single Woman’s Home for the 3rd time breaks down multiple locked doors , physically attacks her … then …

        ~N.O. ;0p

        *see link below …

      68. Did everyone hear about the five people injured from “ADBDs” connected to three Gun Shows this weekend?

        One phrase explains all three incidents in a “nutshell”…. You can’t fix stupid!

        Oh yea, ADBD stands for: Accidental Discharge By Dumbass.

        • There have been two, well actually three, ADBDs that stand out from my neck of the woods, by people I know.

          #1 Young man gets out of truck and reaches back into truck to get deer rifle, from resting barrel down in floor board near center console. Man doesn’t realize, in his haste and excitement, he has knocked off saftey with a round in chamber and cocked, because he was about to shoot at deer earlier from vehicle while enroute to deer woods. As gun is being retrieved, trigger gets pulled while gun is pointing at center of firewall. Bullet enters engine block after exiting firewall and disables engine, so vehicle is towed 35 miles,with hunters in tow truck, saddened by shitty hunting trip, all the way back home. Cost to repair engine $2600.00, story behind damaged engine,-priceless.

          #2 Older man (neighbor not ever done much shooting or deer hunting) goes on deer hunt with next door neighbor. After sitting for four hours, underdressed, in freezing cold, heads back to new pickup truck and can only think about getting feet and hands back to any temp above “thawed”. As hunter lays gun across seat and hastily begins to unload 30-06 w/ 180 grain bullet in chamber and cocked, hunter forgets no feeling in trigger finger and bumps trigger after removing safety, “before” ejecting round and said bullet enters and exits passenger’s door about door handle area on new p/u truck.
          Cost to replace interior door panel and repair door hole: $600.00 and change. Story of wife making husband sell deer rifle to pay for damages- priceless.

          #3 Oldman (my Dad) got on one of his “pissed at the world/jealousy’ trips because everyone got nice bucks during week of Thanksgiving, but him, since he done more sleeping in his toasty little ground stand after staying up late watching old movies. Son’s stay clear of oldman for days, after hearing ole grumpy at Thanksgiving dinner “whine” over all the “bucks are killed”. Oldman gets serious after third day after Thanksgiving and stays awake long enough to see deer and grow horns on it so he can make hasty shot and wound, said buck, and never find it after losing blood trail.
          Walks into dining room and hastily lays rifle (30-06) across dining table and grabs phone to call up help from sons to track wounded deer, that may or may not have horns still attached. Can’t get sons to answer phones, so decides better unload gun. In mad haste, forgets about chambering 2nd round into gun for possible follow-up shot on massive buck with rocking chair on head, so accidently discharges firearm while holding at 45 degree angle while sitting down and gun pointing at front door. Projectile goes thru decorative wooden door just below small glass panes causing two of four glass panes to shatter everywhere inside and out onto front porch along with splinters of main entance door. Projectile then enters roof’s boxed eve leaving rectangular hole and then resting somewhere in roofing material. Cost to repair door- about $60.00 and leaving scars. Look on Oldman’s face when he starts whineing about deer hunting and one of sons reminds him of ADBD inside house- Priceless!

      69. I know I been preaching this for a long time, but there seems to be more and more about it in the news

        Ammo tracking, or depleating the supply or both

        heres an article I’ll link

          • VRF:

            I just read this same article, and planned to put up link, but you beat me to it, sir.

            It does seem do be in the news a lot more. I read the comments after the article, and one commentor made a very valid point:

            “Don’t be giving them any ideas!”

            Been buying every round I can find.

      70. I have been stressing about whether to stay home or travel far….and leaving all behind. Wanting to stay where I am, this article alleviated my fears somewhat. I have a goodly amount stored in a spare room, but have far more “hidden in plain sight”…..ie: mattress on bed covered with pretty comforter and pillows in spare room actually is full of various canned goods…etc. I will do what I can to make my home as inconspicuous as possible…it is an older home so it doesn’t appear to house anyone of any great means….
        This is what makes sense to me now….but I don’t know how it will all play out…
        God Bless Us Everyone

      71. good artical that makes people think,I have met a lot of people that talk a big talk about what they are going to do if shtf. one such walking tall idiot that lives in a town of about 6000 where about 4500 is on welfare told me that if he had to he can take his .270 and kill a deer and survive in home for anything. people don’t understand that even in small towns those other people will be doing the same thing. It’s the look of total shock that comes over his face that amuses me, the fact that “other people” besides himself will be looking to survive by whatever means they have. so many people in this country have their heads stuck in the sand with twice as many with their heads stuck up their a$$es!
        We live in a world today where you need to be prepared for ANY disasters,the bug in or out debate is simple,but you have to have a plan and thats where the problem lays! PLANNING!

      72. History lesson time. I know this one up close and personal as I prayed long hours for friends / family evacuating the Houston, TX area after Sept 2005 hurricane Rita. Google – hurricane rita traffic jam… and review the ‘images’ of those 100+ mile roadway parking lots in 100+ degree heatwave if you need a visual.
        My distant family had a place to go – my house, but they got caught in the nightmare traffic jam for well over 20 hours. There were endless examples of good samaritans that helped along the way; but it was because they could. The family took straight to interstate because they rarely got out of their comfort zone and only knew 3 ways out of Houston… cat picture of a couple of days ago still stuck in my head – LOL!

        Plan carefully for a panic scenario. Run it through your head. My area of Texas is littered with what is known as ‘pig trails’ by the locals or Farm-to-Market and County Roads by the state. I know them well – where they go and how they inter-connect. I suggest the same and always have detailed maps. My pig-trail maps have distances, notable residences, and detailed landmarks. DH and I make it an occassional Sunday adventure – good times and picnics on the back-roads. Even stopped to help an old farmer once who’s tractor was stuck. His wife gave us some fresh eggs. I know – dorky story but it’s who we are down here.


        • My nephew, his wife, and baby were trapped in those long lines, evacuating after Rita. They ran out of gas and baby formula during the 12 hours they were stuck in traffic, trying to travel the usual 2 hour route. Thank God for the good Samaritans along the way who brought their gas cans and went to local stores to get them baby formula while they were stuck in that awful mess. Sometimes we REALLY underestimate the enormity of the obstacles we may face during these events. That’s why it bothers me when people want a hard collapse immediately. How awful to realize you are vastly under-prepared and underestimated the level of difficulty.

      73. I have no intention of leaving my home, my preps, neighbors, etc…About the only thing in a WROL scenerio that would force me out would be fire, then we’d most likely stay with neighbors…

        We’re not going to go off into the boonies, been there, done that, courtesy of Uncle Sugar back in the day….

        Just look at Agentina, most, if not all folks, stayed in place….

        Now, i do have robust GHB in case of emergency and i need to hunker in place, make my way home….

      74. Good assessment! While most believe that venturing to the woods is great, one thing has to always be taken into account…what is the best option for not only myself, but my family as well. Chance favors the prepared mind, and if we all prepare soundly and logically; we all stand a better chance of survival. whether I bug out or bug in…depends on the situation; I have a plan ready to execute for both. Better safe than sorry!

      75. It would have to be really bad to bug out…along the lines of large, heavily armed, roving gangs raiding neighborhoods. Rambo I’m not and because of this crappy modern society where real neighborhoods with close-knit neighbors doesn’t exist like when I was a kid I can’t count on anybody teaming up with me to eradicate gang activity. Late spring, summer, and early fall no problem living long term in a tent in the wilderness. Winter problematic in southern appalachians; 60 and sunny one day then 4 days of 38 degree rain which equals hypothermic death sentence. Winter is always crazy and unforcastable here.
        Scenario: You bug out to evade the gangbangers or the feds(sometimes not sure which is worse), pitch camp in a secluded area for a couple of days and when you return you’ve got squatters or the house is burnt to the ground. What do you do then?

        And what kind of dumbass peckerhead takes a loaded shotgun to a show? This is the kind of stupid moronic shit those of us who know what we are doing will have to contend with on a grand scale in a meltdown.

      76. Was living on the edge last night. Went with some friends to a ghetto lounge near Chicago. The owner and his friends were flashing “12th Steet Players” gang signs. Some of us can move around the ghetto areas. I grew up around the animals and idiots. I probably would have a hard time trying to get by in the Everglades, but I can survive in other types of “jungles”. When the balloon goes up, I’ll stay put and play in the alleys with the worst of them. If you catch my drift.

        • Must not have kids, no offense.

      77. Mornin Bi,

        Oddly placed tremor, a 5.5 I think, in Eastern Siberia a
        bit ago. I remember seeing some activity down towards the
        southern end of Lake Baikal several months previous but
        outside of that I can’t recollect seeing ANYTHING in the
        Siberian region in the last two years or more. Certainly
        we see activity all along the Kamchatka penisnsula but
        seldom anything very far inland like this.

        What’s the ‘read’ here Freind?


        Oh, BTW, most of the planetary magnetometers
        (as well as the GOES platforms) are resuming a
        more normal track, all except the Alaskan chain
        which appears to be becomning more active than
        in the last 72 hours, especially the last 8 hours;
        whether that is related to this Siberian episode
        is hard to tell….

        • @JustOneGuy. It is funny because I was just going to comment on this. That 5.5 is extremely rare, ONLY 5 earthquakes of over 4.5 have occurred there for the 40 years of recording keeping. Like the Antarctica earthquake of 6.1 last week, this 5.5 was the largest ever experienced in this area. These following earthquakes ALL were either in Indonesia, China, Japan, Vanautu, and central South America. Just like the Antarctica area and the Carlsburg Ridge and a couple of other areas on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, these areas are favored for big earthquakes coming. No coincidence here, NO WAY.

          Something very terrible is coming, as these other areas all had smaller precursor quakes before getting hit with high 6’s and low to high 7’s. I really am standing by the following areas to get nailed badly: one or more:

          Indonesia, probably the western area is more likely
          New Guinea to about Fiji, maybe Kermadec Islands
          Chile to Ecuador
          Central Mexico to about northern Columbia

          Other possible areas just because of the other polar quakes:
          Cascadia fault
          Iran to Pakistan
          Greece, Black Sea region

          I would still say China and southern to central Japan have the biggest bull’s eye on them. Then South America a very close second tied with Indonesia.

          I orginially said by Jan.24 90-95% chance, and near 100% by Jan.30. I would say by Feb.4 it has to happen. I truly though last night might be the night, and I turned on the radio several times during the night to hear the breaking news from Fox News. It is so close right now. I would not at all be surprised at a super quake rivalling the 1960 Chile quake, the largest one ever recorded. I think it will probably range 7.3-8.3 though.

      78. Bugging out vs. hunkering down = those with money & resources and those without.

        God bless the latter

      79. @ JustOneGuy. One other little tigbit to add is that this area of the Siberia quake is the plate boundary between the two heavyweights of the plates, The Eurasia and North American plates. These two plates really have no rivals in size and density, they are both very continental crust based. The Pacific plate is huge, but mostly less dense oceanic crust. The African plate is soild but not nearly as large. The Antarctic plate is smaller and mostly influnced by the other plates. The Australian plate and South American plate are driven by what the two heavyweights are doing.

        When you see earthquakes along the plate boundary of Asia and North America, it means there is a true pushing war going on and that means big earthquakes, really big earthquakes. I suppose the Kuril Islands and the Kamachatke Peninsula could have a 9 pointer from what is going on, but all other indications point more to the areas I mentioned above. Watch and wait, not watch and see because it is coming. Too many times in the past this has happened and big earthquakes have followed. This time though two of the largest earthquakes in these areas have occurred and almost 20 earthquakes in the Carlsburg Ridge, a true swarm for the records.

        • BI,

          Go see Mac, ‘commune’ with him, he’s got something for you…

      80. The hills are alive with music and music is her name.

      81. Just got some good news from my neighbor..im not the only one on my street that is paying attention to whats going down in this country, and Im not the only one armed and trained. He offered it up, I just listened and showed interest, and showed that I agreed with him and his choices.

        • VRF:

          Been listening to folks around here for weeks. A lot are aware, and judging by the picked-clean ammo shelves, and to a lesser degree, the sparsely stocked grocery shelves, a lot are gearing up.

          Got five friends on the prepper wagon. Been trading ideas with them and making suggestions.

          I’ve even been looking in out-of-the-way places to find preps. Don’t know if you have them where you are, but we have a box store here called “Big Lots”. Found bags of dried soup mix that make 8 servings for $3 a bag. Lots of varieties, chili, chicken noodle, etc. Shelf life of 3 years, too. Loaded my cart, if you know what I mean.

          Another item they had which gave the most for your money was a big 20 oz bag of trail mix. Good shelf life for $3.75 a bag. If nothing else, it provides a “comfort food”, lots of chocolate chips, M&Ms, etc.

          Best of all, both are American made items.

          • Good to know KySSG, we do have those stores here, I will look into it.

          • Thanks for the info about Big Lots. We all need to share the info on the bargains we are finding so we can prepare better and faster!!! Bless you!

      82. My roommate and I are bugging in since we are actually the bugout location for about 10 other people. Hopefully all of our members can make it here if/when it happens. If they don’t, we 2 are already prepared and could handle things but the other 10 would make security and the performance of everyday chores that much easier.

        In case I get stranded away from home, I keep an evacuation bag in my vehicle with shelter and enough supplies for 3 days to let me hoof it back to my place. The good news is that I only work 16 miles from home and most of that distance is farmland and woods. There are only a couple of potential hot spots I would need to avoid if SHTF while I’m at work and can’t drive home.

      83. and some not so good news

        General James M. Scott of the U.S. Air Force confirmed that the Pentagon received a series of formal directives from the White House between November 7 and December 13 to begin plans for a massive nationwide operation to confiscate guns using a series of federal databases compiled over the last few decades

          • Mil-Spec version of The Onion. Satire and Humor. Please un-wad panties.

        • Hmmmmm . . .

          Kinda interesting, since the Sandy Hook “Incident” didn’t happen until December 14.

          Colorado wasn’t dramatic enough to get support, so something else was needed.

          Cat outta the bag. Planned ahead long before.

          *SIGH* Guess we all know where we stand. If some folks can’t see this for what it really is, there’s no hope for them now.

        • where’s the link … the only reference to a gen. james m. scott i find any where is connected to the ameriKan presidential coup attempt back in the 50’s by prescott bush of the cia georgie bush family .

          hmmmmmmm ???

          • Link too some time in Mod, its up..even if the source might be off some..maybe some validity?

        • Mac…you’ve got to stop crap like this. If it’s not 100% verifiable then nix it from the site. TPTB are doing their damnedest to make us look like drooling, paranoid loons.
          I have done multiple searches and the information in this post comes up nil.

      84. How many have you ever Elk hunted in the Rockies? A few I suppose, but my guess is not more than 10% of people on this site. Here comes my diatribe about bugging in if you can. I have hunted all over Colorado for Elk over 15 seasons. Most of the time it was on public ground. I have spent serious time on horseback trying to get somewhere no one else would be just to find someone walked in from the other side of the ridge. You are NOT going to be alone in the wilderness and most likely you will not know your new neighbors. Move to the country now and build your life away from the big city. Bug In.

        May God Bless us all!

        • i have to agree with shootit. too many people will be targets in the mountains. stay out of the large cities. smaller cities with good people is a better chance where the town will try to become “1” and bond and help each other in smaller towns. Im not going anywhere. I will have my ammo hidden and can swing to that location to reload but dont ever get in a shooting pissing match in your own home, once they radio in your address that place is done. if your going to engage you must do it on the move near your home. Think about when you were a kid throwing tomatoes at cops and they try to get you, they call in backup and your in your neighborhood but not at home and then you run home where they wont know where you were.

          • Agreed, to a point.

            Mobility, and situational awareness, are key.

            • Yes, but they will surprise you. I was surprised at 11,500 ft. I was camping on private ground at 8,000 ft next to the federal land and was surprised. As I left our ground at 4:30 am on horse there was a orange jacket sitting there with a rifle watching us leave our ground. I was at 11,500 before sunrise and I could hear them talking. Good luck! This was hunting season. Just wait until stupid season by 10 fold.

          • Thats why I value a .22 rifle with supression as a very useful arm in the collapse.

            • There’s an old saying about .22s: “Son, if you shoot me with that thing, and I find out. . . . .”

                • Walt….youre right..Ive killed alot of deer in my years…(a man-sized target)the most of them with an old Stevens .22 single shot…from 3ft to 300 yards…in the hands of a metrosexual they may not be too effective,but in this hillbillys hands you better be running…not laughin…

        • Absolutely 100% correct shootit. People who head to the woods are in for a very rude awakening and probably slow death from exposure or starvation.

          I built a new place in the burbs about 1 year before I pulled my head out of the sand as to what is coming. If I could go back I would have built out of town 10-20 miles.

          You are right though. Bug in or have a destination already stocked and waiting for you to bug out to.


          God Bless,

        • Absolutely true…If you hit the bush you’re going to need a multiple person party for security shifts and perimeter alarms/protection.

          We have 100,000’s of acres of wilderness here and you’ll still run into someone doing an off-trail walkabout…has happened to me several times.

        • From October to April you will not survive more than a week. Unless you have a location with provisions. Then you may last 3 weeks. The mountains in the winter sucks. You will not survive. You can not cut enough firewood. You can not kill enough game. You will have many visitors that think they can do the same. NOT. If you were with 2 other guys that know what they are doing… Maybe, but you will have 10,000 other people without a clue. They will head for the mountains and die.

      85. Trying to stay on topic here…I’ll be bugging in as I do not have a retreat. I have two very young children and it will not be possible for me to go anywhere. I have plans with one other family to come stay at my home in a SHTF scenario so we can at least pool our human resources.

      86. I plan to bug in. My additional plan is to drive around the county near my town and screw with all the road signs so stupid sheep won’t even be able to find my town. Remove three roads and the signs and the hoards will bypass my town. Everybody in my town knows just about everybody else, and they are all related. I have the genealogies to prove it. Friends and relatives will cooperate and help find solutions better than total strangers will.

        Has anyone else thought about removing or changing all the local road signs in your area if something happens?

        • Bwahahahaha Project Mayhem.

        • thats a good plan and throw nail all over the road to give them all flat tires. Just a tip.

          • Or half an hour’s work with a chainsaw in wooded country. Or overturning an old truck at a choke point. Preferably chained by the axles to some large trees or a bridge railing. Never can have too many log chains in your preps!

        • Where are you from, Arkansas! Just couldn’t help it. Trekker Out.

      87. Ragnar Benson covered this topic 3 decades ago.

      88. Print off some official looking quarantine signs now, if you plan to bug in. CDC’s quarantine signs are on red paper. It might serve to make your home a less desirable target in the event of SHTF – this was among my preparations when I lived in a large city.

      89. Road closed and quarantine signs are useful preps.

        • Thats a good idea.

      90. Staying put and defending the homestead. At my age and with other family members, both younger and older, we will pull together as best we can for as long as we can. Live in rural area, neighbors are at least semi-preppers/hunters, etc so I think we can work together. Yep, this is where we make our last stand.

      91. thought this might be of interest
        reasonably priced solar light


        developed for use in third world countries
        but has applications for preppers also

      92. I have been tryin to bug out for a year now. I can’t stand the radio and tv signals they are broadcasting. I was hoping that Newt fella would get elected so I could stow away on one of his daily NASA flights to outer space. Lookin for a ride to the dark side of the moon. Willing to pay a fair price in FRNs for a ride. Payment on arrival. Buuuurp. ‘cuse me.

      93. Avail yourselves of Google Earth while everything still works.. carefully survey the areas around your places for seldom / lightly used roads, proximity of houses / population centers that you might not be aware of, water sources that aren’t readily visible. I did and after careful examination, I’ve identified very acceptable temporary bug out areas much closer than I thought.

        • OUCH__use that to find water sources too.

      94. VRF, that info you just put out on the confiscation plans seems to fit right in with everything else that’s happening. Any links to it for verification? KySSG, ammo supply here in Memphis pretty well depleted. I had to go to the last gun show we had here on the 12th and 13th to find some. 4 vendors were there with a pretty good supply and i bought up 3 more bricks of .22LR. we’ve got another gun show scheduled here for Feb. 2 and 3. Got to find some more ammo for my .40 and .30 for my M1. I’ve also noticed certain grocery items running low like the soup mixes, bags of rice, certain canned goods, bottled water, etc. Looks like some more people in my area finally “got it” and are turning into preppers. fewer enemies for me to worry about later in post-SHTF. braveheart

        • Braveheart:

          Yep, the soup mixes especially. Still ample supply of bottled water for the time being. Lot of the canned meats (chicken and beef) are picked clean for the most part.

          Ammo shelves? Empty. I have a good supply of .40 for my Glock, and working on building up double ought for the 12 gauge.

          Just need to keep prepping. I can probaly get by for months right now, but still adding daily.

        • Link took a while to moderate, Take it for what its worth and the origin of its source..I wouldnt put it past them in the future..things do move slow, than all the sudden wham its in your face.

          No reloading components at all in my area, hit all the major stores that supply this, and even on line..nada

          some shot gun shells for bird hunting..thats it

          • Ive been busy, not on line this weekend..trees to cut split and stack..its cold as hell up here and it will be again next year..get it while you can type of thing

      95. Trying to get a good perspective on different scenarios I spoke to a Congolese man who had to flee from rebel armies from the east he took what possessions he could carry but after days of walking and becoming fatigued he and his family just dumped the extra stuff & clothes. another problem was trying not to get killed & looted by the govt troops if they suspected he was a rebel or even from another tribe he told me there was no talking just shooting, Congolese are not allowed private ownership of firearms anyone in possession is deemed a rebel and shot furthermore he said a person could not imagine such brutality unless they themselves were there. Another member of the Church I attend fled Zimbabwe during the hyper inflation. there was nothing and a severe shortage of everything else. Also limited private gun ownership in a financial meltdown amidst gangs of mugabe thugs beating and killing anyone suspected of being opposition. Both men went through hell on earth where their dreams of the future along with savings and possessions were all lost. They give God alone the praise for being alive. people have better prepare for the worst and hope for the best example $1 worth of petrol in a molotov cocktail at 04h00 could send $1000’s preps up in smoke. (quote Anton Hackle)

      96. MD’s blog is geared more toward beginners just getting started preparing and with minimal financial resources. Nothing wrong with that, but if you can afford a $10,000 solar setup then his blog (and advice) may not apply to your situation.

        Ask a survivalist that doesn’t have a second home, retreat, or good alternate shelter and they’ll typically state they plan to hunker down where they are now. Ask one that has more options for bugging out, and their answer is more likely to be “it depends”. The articles / comments written by those with more options offer the best arguments (both for and against) bugging out IMO. When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

      97. A friend sent me this:
        Q: What’s the real problem with Barack Obama jokes?
        A: His followers don’t think they’re funny and…. the rest of us don’t think they’re jokes.
        Thought worthy 🙂

        • That is the truth! I don’t understand basically who would die for this piece of shit. I don’t get it? Obama has taken away so much and soon liberals will be possibly paying into this Obamacare and they will be in a world of hurt when it happens. Wait till Obama tries to spin obamacare on the GOP. Back to dying for Obama, what is it, is it with the black community do they think since he’s first black president and every motherfuckin white should pay. Most are racist I have come to this conclusion. I try and say hi to everyone the same even blacks and you can see the anger in them. Are blacks so drawn to him because he is black and they are still pissed off because of slavery hundreds of years ago. Guess what blacks we were slaves too, shut the fuck up and get over the past, you were not a slave so shut the fuck up on that issue. 2nd, the whites why do they die for Obama? I have no idea on that one.

          • Also if you live in smaller towns, throw tons of nails scattered all over the roads to give people flat tires that you dont want to be in your area during a collapse.

      98. The housing boom/overbuild left alot of excess housing empty. I figure staying in a house is the best bet.


        Remember as you watch this and other videos i post from russia that both commie weather underground cia puppet prez Barry Soetoro / Obama and the Bill Hilary Clinton’s Mafia political prostitute Team has contacted the Russian Government directly for troop assistance – russian boots on the ground here in AmeriKa in the case of UN DHS Martial Law … RUSSIAN TROOPS ARE ALREADY STATIONED IN AMERIKA ON STANDBY IN COLORADO !!!

        Road Rage Russians Settle Dispute with a Bat and Hatchet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2_h7xwCLE

        Hilarious Road Rage Fight – Russia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsntw7QgtE

        NEW scary brutal road rage in Russia!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hab9F0coqTU

        Russian Road Rage and Accidents October 2012 [18+] ☆ SFB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhT9LRkJJh0


        ~N.O. ;0p

      100. Be Informed!!! A Swarm of Quakes in the Reykjanes Ridge ?????

        • And, how does this relate to hunkerin home or buggin out?

          • @20000 lgs , and how does jesuit trolling relate to bugging out?

        • but nina, barry is doing it all for your beloved children. is this what you envisioned for the children? Is it?

      101. If you had 10 foods to store, what would you store?

        Lets say the Peace Maker feels guilty and will allow preppers to store just 10 food types. If you store 11, then your food storage gets raided and sent to a FEMA Camp. Thus you can store 10 only. A seed type counts as 1 food item. ie, if you have corn seed and lettuce seed, that counts as 2 of the 10.

        What 10 sources would you pick? This does not include spices such as pepper, salt, butter, or sugar.

        Ugly’s List:
        1. Honey
        2. 5 gal Bucket of Beans
        3. 5 gal Bucket of Rice
        4. Sacks of Idaho Potatoes
        5. Powdered Milk
        6. Powdered Eggs
        7. Campbells Vegetable Beef Soup cans
        8. Freezer filled with hamburger
        9. Freezer filled with frozen sweet corn
        10. Heirloom lettuce seed

        Also, what are the 5 food items you could survive on.

        • Are you referring to what I have or what they might think I have? I would never let the brown shirts know exactly what I have….I would show them a puny supply of stuff while all else is hidden in plain sight….This list is what I would have..and do…flour, sugar,yeast,dried beans,rice, canned meat either purchased (chicken and ham) or canned myself….ie: ground beef, stew meat, etc….ramen noodles,all pastas, canned tomatoes and sauce and canned vegies, gravy mixes, oatmeal!, canned fruit, evaporated milk, dried milk (can make that yourself) dried eggs (can make that yourself), cereal, crisco, olive oil, cake and pudding mixes, bisquik, canned soup,ravioli,tuna, salmon and other such like ……bouillon, bar chocolate, tea and coffee, Tang, and I have individual packets of condiments….miracle whip, mayo, catsup and mustard need not be refrigerated….also dried onion and assorted seasonings….
          The 5 things other than water that I could survive on would be oatmeal, beans and rice combo, tuna/salmon,vegies and pasta
          I just know I am forgettin’ something but this is what I have so far….

          • Hey FOB….how do you make dried milk and eggs???? I would be extremely interested in the process, if you would care to share?

            • Absolutely! Dried Milk: In a double boiler….bring several inches of water to a boil, then lower to simmer…fill the top pot about half full of milk with no lid….I use whole milk….simmer (and I mean simmer…first time I attempted this I scalded the milk…lol) for several hours, until much of the water from the milk has evaporated….remember to add water to bottom pot as needed (I add hot water so that simmer temp kinda continues) When milk is as thick as cream pour into baking dish with 2 inch sides (I purchased 2 cookie sheets from the dollar store when I first did this and the eggs, not wanting to ruin good pans if I screwed it up…plus, they are flexible) dry in 150 degree oven until dry….cool and grind in blender or any grinder. Store in glass jars. For eggs: Combine eggs (I use 6 at a time) in bowl and beat until light, and spread on cookie sheet….dry in warm oven and grind fine when dry…I will not give times as there are many variables to consider….but don’t worry as you will know when they are dry……I did both the same day and while not labor intensive, you need to check them rather often….As far as reconstitution, for milk I use the ratios on the carnation dry milk box or to taste…..the recipe I read for both of these did not give this rather important bit of info :)….for the eggs I just added water a little bit at a time until they reached what I thought was the right consistency…..made scrammbled eggs and could not tell the difference….really.

          • FOB: Popcorn one of the best. Try oven canning to add longer life to your dry goods.

            • @Pale Rider…..You really got my attention with oven canning….how do you do it? And, yes, I have the popcorn…you can really do a great deal with it as a treat…..:)

        • Beans

      102. @Braveheart: If you don’t have please get some NIGHT VISION, while you can.

      103. Amer. Free Man Patriot, Nino O, Annon.
        Annon Hackel – You SPAM this board non-stop.
        You get an automatic thumbs down, and I
        Never read your posts. ;O) N.O. N.O.
        Verde Laude!!! You have a real desire to
        be noticed, but it has the OPPOSITE
        EFFECT. ;O) Verde LaLa, Viva La Resistance,
        Wack Job.



        h t t p : / / c s p o a . o r g /

        Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association

        “To seek justice, protect civil liberties, and uphold the constitution”

        Our Mission

        To equip sheriffs, peace officers and public officials with the necessary information and public support to carry out their duties in accordance with their Oaths of Office.

        h t t p : / / c s p o a . o r g /

      105. “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives.

        It is the one that is most adaptable to change.”

        Charles Darwin

      106. When in doubt, remember the law of 3s.

        1. You’ve got 3 hours to find shelter. Exposure is deadly (too hot, too cold, not even considering the dangers of predators) If you already have shelter that is adequate then go to step 2.
        2. You’ve got 3 days until you need water.
        3. You’ve got 3 weeks until you need food.

        • 3 min. of not breathing…. dont forget clean air, free of bio hazards,pathogens,suffocation..etc..
          gas mask, and resperators for dusty, dirty air

          • 3 seconds without security….

            powder dry boys…!!…BA.

      107. I was born in, what I consider, the perfect area for bugging in. Its rural setting. Population is denser than I like but resources are dense too. Lots of standing timber on my 30 acres plus I’ve got a well into a aquifer at 300ft and a flowing creek. Then, also, there is all the coal I want. Plenty of open spaces for 10 acres or so for garden and crops.

        For those of you that think thats the end of it, think again. There is still the possibility for things to go bad. I have a friend 30 miles to the northwest of me that is my backup location. If things start to get dicey, I’ll pull my 18ft travel trailer over there ahead of time, with supplies, and be ready for a last minute bugout if need be.

        Remember: even if you’re plan on hunkering down, you still need a bugout plan. The possibility may be ever so slight but if you don’t think about it now and do a little planning, your possibility of success goes way down.

        3 1/2 cups whole wheat flour
        1/2 cup sugar
        2 tsp baking soda
        1/2 tsp salt
        2 cups buttermilk

        Mix by hand. Will be very thick batter.
        Pour/press into well greased loaf pan.

        • Thanks for the recipe.

        • You failed to mention the taste of this bread..which is rather awful..and, who would waste milk and vinegar to create the buttermilk to make it…..just make real, good, bread…….

          • Fob
            I posted the recipe for others who may have difficulty making yeast breads.
            if the directions are followed it tastes delicious!
            Maybe you should use real buttermilk, flaked kosher sea salt, and turbinado sugar.
            It’s an excellent way to use some hard red wheat.
            Hope this helps.!!

            Keep preppin’

            • Milk and vinegar together like that not only make buttermilk, but also work as an egg substitute in other types of baking recipes. (My daughter is highly allergic to eggs). You can make wonderful eggless cakes this way!

              Thank you for the recipe, Cooking Mom – there might come a day when we have to conserve things like yeast and eggs. I’ve added this to my notebook! 🙂


              • Thank you dear. I use substitutions all the time and it’s a very
                Flexible recipe. I put cinnamon and pecans in one time and it didn’t
                Last very long.
                I just had concerns for some people with partial disabilities
                that need a way to make a quick bread that actually taste good.

                Keep preppin’

      109. Healthy Harvest dot com
        40% OFF $75 purchase
        keep preppin’

      110. To all the bug outers. One thing to consider, all the bridges may be gone. If you have to cross one or two be prepared. Everyone with a backhoe will make travel difficult. Just saying……

      111. Everyone has a scenario for their version of SHTF. Whether it’s a massive earthquake, economic collapse, or the rapture, one thing is certain, whatever government is in force will try to round you up – like Katrina. If Katrina was a lesson, the house to house forces are small and can be defended against, usually a few cops or a unit or two of National Guard. But Katrina ended and life normalized. In a long term situation, eventually they will get around to dealing with you. So to me if you think your home is not going to hold, you need to start moving now. You don’t need land (but it would be nice). You need to live in a small town where everyone owns guns and believes in freedom. They may not like you when you first get there, but if you act like a good neighbor long enough you’ll be fine and if you move there tomorrow and TSHTF the next day, you will be surrounded by individuals and groups that won’t go down without a fight. In that situation your true colors will be evident real quick. If you live in an urban area, between the criminals and the concentration of forces you will be stuck.

      112. I live beside this town and it is the next Southern one from me. I was there 3 days ago working. You can do 75 miles to all you nay sayers up and down the worst terrain you have ever seen. Training may be required.


      113. Although I do have a bug out bag and a get home bag my plan is to stay home if at all possible. Bugging out is a last ditch plan for me. I do not discount the possibility, after all we do not know what the situation will be.
        As for fitness, I am a hardcore fitness fanatic, I run, cycle, row and also practice Mauy Thai and escrima, I am also a big weight lifting fan. So all in all I consider myself a VERY fit person. HOWEVER, I have tried walking 18 miles with my 45 pound bug out bag and it was BRUTAL. Felt like I had taken a four man eating the next day.
        In my humble opinion bugging out must always remain a viable option but it must be used only if no other alternative exists.
        We have all seen what happens to refugees on the TV, I for one would only do so if I had NO other choice.

        • Sorry for the typo guys, Word should read beating not eating 🙂

        • Weather events. That is what we need to prepare for.

      114. Absolutely, STAY PUT if at all possible! I live in Austin, Texas and work in Fire/EMS. All it takes to shut down a highway is one jack-knifed 18 wheeler. 3-4 times a week, part of I-35 is shut down due to a wreck. It’s usually re-opened within hours because there are resources available to move the wreck. But when SHTF, there probably WON’T be anyone around to clear the wreck.

        So you’ll be stuck behind a mass of non-moving cars and trucks, including stalled-out vehicles that tried to cut around on the grass. At that point, you’re a sitting duck for the Mad Maxes of the world.

        Same goes for the back roads, folks, except it takes even less to block those roads–one or two rolled pick-up trucks would do it.

        You are a SITTING DUCK out on the roads!

      115. Archangel and Tam are on the right track folks. During the Ice Storm of 1998, it took me over 3 hours to get to my local Costco – usually a 20-30 minute drive – and this was 5 days after the power went out. There were still poles and wires down all over the place. Many roads were still impassible. I was able to get through a lot of places others couldn’t with my 4×4 Suburban. Plus I was very familiar with all the routes and alternates, and had my 1:50,000 topographic map with me. One guy tried to follow me but got hung up in his Corolla. I did not stop to help because I was on a mission and didn’t have time to make his bad decision right.

        Once in town, I had a list categorized into 3 groups:

        – must haves
        – nice to haves
        – items of opportunity

        Between Costco and Walmart I was able to get all my “must haves” and “nice to haves”. For example one “must have” was disposable propane fuel – bought a whole case. A couple of “nice to have ” items were a Coleman propane lantern (gives off more heat and light than the kerosene lamps we had) and a Coleman 2 burner propane stove (faster and more convenient than the 1 burner propane stove we had been using). An item of opportunity presented itself on my way home. I stopped to gas up the truck in my old neighbourhood. I was chatting with the attendant who told me that the equipment store across the street had just received a shipment of generators. I paid for my fuel and got very lucky – they had 2 generators unspoken for. I quickly picked one, paid for it and headed for home.

        The moral of the story is “bug in” and don’t head out without a good plan and some workable alternatives.

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