10 Things That We Can Learn About Shortages And Preparation From The Economic Collapse In Greece

by | Jun 9, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 355 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When the economy of a nation collapses, almost everything changes.  Unfortunately, most people have never been through anything like that, so it can be difficult to know how to prepare.  For those that are busy preparing for the coming global financial collapse, there is a lot to be learned from the economic depression that is happening right now in Greece.  Essentially, what Greece is experiencing is a low level economic collapse.  Unemployment is absolutely rampant and poverty is rapidly spreading, but the good news for Greece is that the global financial system is still operating somewhat normally and they are getting some financial assistance from the outside.  Things in Greece could be a whole lot worse, and they will probably get a whole lot worse before it is all said and done.  But already things have gotten bad enough in Greece that it gives us an idea of what a full-blown economic collapse in the 21st century may look like.  There are reports of food and medicine shortages in Greece, crime and suicides are on the rise and people have been rapidly pulling their money out of the banks.  Hopefully this article will give you some ideas that you can use as you prepare for the economic chaos that will soon be unfolding all over the globe.

    The following are 10 things that we can learn about shortages and preparation from the economic collapse in Greece….

    #1 Food Shortages Can Actually Happen

    Most people assume that they will always be able to run out to their local supermarket or to Wal-Mart and get all of the supplies they need.

    Unfortunately, that is a false assumption.  The truth is that our food distribution system is extremely vulnerable.

    In Greece, many people are starting to totally run out of food.  Even some government institutions (such as prisons) are now reporting food shortages.  The following was originally from a Greek news source….

    The financing for many prisons has decreased to a minimum for some months now, resulting in hundreds of detainees being malnourished and surviving on the charity of local communities.

    The latest example is the prison in Corinth where after the supply stoppage from the nearby military camp, the prisoners are at the mercy of God because, as reported by prison staff, not even one grain of rice has been left in their warehouses. When a few days earlier the commander of the camp announced to the prison management the transportation stoppage, citing lack of food supplies even for the soldiers, he shut down the last source of supply for 84 prisoners. The response of some Corinth citizens was immediate as they took it upon themselves to support the prisoners, since all protests to the Justice ministry were fruitless.

    #2 Medicine Is One Of The First Things That Becomes Scarce During An Economic Collapse

    If you are dependent on medicine in order to survive, you might want to figure out how you are going to get by if your supply of medicine is totally cut off someday.

    In Greece, medicine shortages have become a massive problem.  The following is from a recent Bloomberg article….

    Mina Mavrou, who runs a pharmacy in a middle-class Athens suburb, spends hours each day pleading with drugmakers, wholesalers and colleagues to hunt down medicines for clients. Life-saving drugs such as Sanofi (SAN)’s blood-thinner Clexane and GlaxoSmithKline Plc (GSK)’s asthma inhaler Flixotide often appear as lines of crimson data on pharmacists’ computer screens, meaning the products aren’t in stock or that pharmacists can’t order as many units as they need.

    “When we see red, we want to cry,” Mavrou said. “The situation is worsening day by day.”

    The 12,000 pharmacies that dot almost every street corner in Greek cities are the damaged capillaries of a complex system for getting treatment to patients. The Panhellenic Association of Pharmacists reports shortages of almost half the country’s 500 most-used medicines. Even when drugs are available, pharmacists often must foot the bill up front, or patients simply do without.

    #3 When An Economy Collapses, So Might The Power Grid

    Try this some time – turn off all power to your home for 24 hours and try to live normally.

    Sadly, most people simply do not understand just how dependent we are on the power grid.  Without power, all of our lives would change dramatically.

    In Greece, authorities are warning of an impending “collapse” of the power grid.  If it goes down for an extended period of time in Greece, the consequences would be catastrophic….

    Greece’s power regulator RAE told Reuters on Friday it was calling an emergency meeting next week to avert a collapse of the debt-stricken country’s electricity and natural gas system.

    “RAE is taking crisis initiatives throughout next week to avert the collapse of the natural gas and electricity system,” the regulator’s chief Nikos Vasilakos told Reuters.

    RAE took the decision after receiving a letter from Greece’s natural gas company DEPA, which threatened to cut supplies to electricity producers if they failed to settle their arrears with the company.

    #4 During An Economic Collapse You Cannot Even Take Water For Granted

    If the power grid goes down, you will soon no longer have clean water coming out of your faucets.  That is one of the reasons why it is absolutely imperative that the power grid stay operable in Greece.

    Sadly, most people don’t understand just how vulnerable our water system is.  In a previous article, I quoted from a report that discussed how rapidly our water supply would be in jeopardy in the event of a major transportation disruption….

    According to the American Water Works Association, Americans drink more than one billion glasses of tap water per day. For safety and security reasons, most water supply plants maintain a larger inventory of supplies than the typical business. However, the amount of chemical storage varies significantly and is site specific. According to the Chlorine Institute, most water treatment facilities receive chlorine in cylinders (150 pounds and one ton cylinders) that are delivered by motor carriers. On average, trucks deliver purification chemicals to water supply plants every seven to 14 days. Without these chemicals, water cannot be purified and made safe for drinking. Without truck deliveries of purification chemicals, water supply plants will run out of drinkable water in 14 to 28 days. Once the water supply is drained, water will be deemed safe for drinking only when boiled. Lack of clean drinking water will lead to increased gastrointestinal and other illnesses, further taxing an already weakened healthcare system.

    What will you do when clean water stops coming out of your faucets?

    You might want to start thinking about that.

    #5 During An Economic Crisis Your Credit Cards And Debit Cards May Stop Working

    Most people have become very accustomed to using either debit cards or credit cards for almost everything.

    But what would happen if the financial system locked up for a period of time and you were not able to use them?

    This is something that the citizens of Greece are potentially facing in the coming months, and this is something that all of us need to start thinking about.

    #6 Crime, Rioting And Looting Become Commonplace During An Economic Collapse

    Big corporations are already making extensive plans for how to protect their stores in the event that Greece switches from the euro to the drachma.

    The following is from a recent Reuters article….

    British electrical retailer Dixons has spent the last few weeks stockpiling security shutters to protect its nearly 100 stores across Greece in case of riot.

    The planning, says Dixons chief Sebastian James, may look alarmist but it’s good to be prepared.

    Company bosses around Europe agree. As the financial crisis in Greece worsens, companies are getting ready for everything from social unrest to a complete meltdown of the financial system.

    #7 During A Financial Meltdown Many Average Citizens Will Start Bartering

    During this economic depression, alternative currencies have already been popping up in Greece.

    When things fall apart on a global scale, will you have things to barter for the things that you need?

    #8 Suicides Spike During An Economic Collapse

    When you think of the Great Depression of the 1930s, what do you think of?

    Many people think of images of people jumping out of buildings.

    Well, something similar has been happening in Greece.  Suicide statistics in Greece have been absolutely soaring during the last couple of years.

    Once prosperity disappears, many people feel as though life is not worth living anymore.

    #9 Your Currency May Rapidly Lose Value During An Economic Crisis

    Just remember what happened in Germany during the Weimar Republic and what has happened recently in places like Zimbabwe.

    The truth is that it can happen anywhere.

    Right now, Greeks are pulling their money out of the banks because they are worried that their euros will be turned into drachmas which would rapidly lose value.

    If I was living in Greece I would definitely be concerned about that.  The return of the drachma seems to get closer with each passing day.  Just check out these screenshots.

    #10 When Things Hit The Fan The Government Will Not Save You

    Has the government of Greece come to the rescue of all of those that are deeply suffering right now?

    Of course not.  The truth is that the Greek government can barely take care of itself at the moment.

    History has shown us that governments simply cannot be counted on when things hit the fan.

    Just remember what happened during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

    In the end, the only one that can be counted on to take care of you and your family is you.

    So you better start preparing.

    Unfortunately, as I wrote about the other day, time is rapidly running out for the global financial system.

    Even some of the top economic officials in the world are warning that another major crisis could be on the way.

    Just check out what World Bank President Robert Zoellick said the other day….

    “Events in Greece could trigger financial fright in Spain, Italy and across the eurozone. The summer of 2012 offers an eerie echo of 2008.”

    He also compared a potential exit of Greece from the eurozone to the collapse of Lehman Brothers back during the last financial crisis….

    “If Greece leaves the eurozone, the contagion is impossible to predict, just as Lehman had unexpected consequences.”

    So what are some things that the average person can do to get prepared?

    Well, a recent article on SHTFplan.com entitled “The List: A to Z Survival for the Abysmal Times Ahead” contains hundreds of ideas for preparing for the chaotic economic environment that we are heading into.

    Preparation is going to look different for every family.  No two situations are exactly the same.

    But there are some practical steps that nearly all of us can take to better position ourselves for what is coming.  Now is the time to get educated and now is the time to take action.

    Or you could be like all of those that laughed at Noah while he was building that big boat.

    In the end, things did not work out too well for those folks.


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      1. Reality check!!!!!!!!!!!

        Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.

        • We are doomed as a country. I just read that people are willing to pay $400.00 for a pair of the Kayne West sneakers. The people who want them most are on welfare.


          • @ Red Leader:

            No they are the ones who are Doomed or damned! We will survive cause, that is what we do. They may be living it up today but, it’s going to end real bad for them.

            • Who’s this ‘they’?
              All those Blacks, on welfare, pining for $400 sneakers?
              Yeah… ‘They’ are the enemy right? Something tells me ‘they’ aren’t the ones you really need to worry about. OWS, anyone?
              Wake up dude! I’m a dedicated prepper, an AMERICAN, and i support the constitution, but i see so much of this very, very thinly veiled racist bullshit on these forums, that it’s getting to the point im ready to just bail on these forums completely.
              The NWO elite really believe that the ‘useless eaters’ (that’s you, and me, my friend) will tear each other apart, like animals, and they’re gonna come out and sweep up the wreckage.
              I read posts like yours, and i don’t blame them for actually beleiving that!

            • Anonymous, you are a racist. Red leader is right. Stop trying to divide us on race.

            • @Anon:

              It’s easy to fall into the trap of assuming “Blacks on welfare”, but honestly, the largest demographic for the stupid ‘gangsta culture’ (and the $400 sneakers)?

              White middle-class suburbanite boys who use it as an avenue to pretend they’re tough.

              As far as the whole race thing? I don’t give a damn what color your skin is, or how you pray. Of the prepper types I actually know in person, many are Latino (met ’em through church), and at least one gent I know of is black.

              It’s not about race or creed – it’s about mindset.

              The sad part is, in order to survive, you’re going to have to (at least partially) help the ones you can, but hope/pray for the rest. Make no mistake – when it hits full-on, the vast majority of humanity will die – simple logistics will dictate this.

            • Come on anon, you oughta know better. He wasn’t race baiting, you are. My wife worked in adult services medicade for 20 years, plenty of whites living on the Gov’t dole too. “They come in all colors”.

            • I have to agree with Anonymous, there are indeed many “thinly veiled” racist remarks here. Many people still apparently love to think in terms of themselves as the good guys and “them” as being whoever they happen to hate, with very little understanding that the common scapegoats are almost always someone they “learned” about, from television or the radio.
              Think about how many times we have been told to be afraid of Muslims, or that single moms on welfare are ruining the country, or that gun control makes us safer. Think how many times you have been told that Democrats are to blame. Or that Republicans are to blame. Or really it’s those Mexicans. Think carefully about who it is that you want to scapegoat: it is almost always some propaganda lie that you bought, hook, line, and sinker, because you wanted to believe it.

              Prepared Soccer Mom is right. What the real They want, is for you to blame anyone but Them. The PTB would love for everyone to find and distract themselves with their own petty scapegoats. Meanwhile, nobody notices while They back Their trucks up to the Treasury and rob us all blind. Stop making your neighbors the enemy and remember, cui bono?

            • @ Anonymous WTF???

              are you talking about? Sense when did the word “they” become a racial term? The “they” that I’m referring to is those witch depend on the government! period the end… I don’t recall that ever having anything to do with color..

              You are way out there my friend and you got me wrong!!!

          • Be very careful who you pick as we or they. My we is my family and tribe. My they is the NWO. I know this is very Alex Joneish, but THEY are planning. Why do you think we have over 1000 channels on TV to choose from, why do you think Hollywood and Sports are so wildly popular and sought after? Dull the mind, easier to control! Our motto ought to be NO YOU CAN”T!!!!

            • PSM: Google the “Georgia Guidestones” and this has been in the works to take the population down to 500 million, instead of the 7 billion on Earth at present.
              Even my family is in denial, which torques my butt to the point of stopping talking to them.
              But they are family.
              Blood is thicker than water, even when they are wrong.

            • The Worldgov has been doing this for decades. They cripple a country and then balance it on the razors edge.
              On one side there is total collapse.
              On the other side there is recovery.
              In the middle there is only endless suffering.

              This is why they funnel aid into North Korea, not because they give a damn about starving Koreans but because they want to provide a spectacle of human misery, a national bogeyman so that when you get taxed through the nose and felt up by TSA goons then the slack jawed pundits can turn to you and say;
              “Well at least you don’t live in NORTH KOREA!”

              Our governments never seek to raise our standards of living. They only work to provide us with an example of greater misery and suffering than our own.
              If Greece was allowed to default and rebuild, as Iceland did, then they could dictate the terms of a speedy recovery. As things stand now they will grind on in perpetual agony until the system supporting them collapses itself.

            • @prepared soccer mom,

              I must agree with you, I see it all about mind control in order to control the masses. Keep the people occupied while Big Brother and those who want total power over the world, are sneaking behind your back destroying Our Constitutional Freedoms taking away Our God Given Rights.

              The more they can keep you destracted the better it is for them.

          • The people who crave products (especially shoes) like those shoes have been brainwashed for decades now. Consumerism becomes more and more extreme as you move downward into the poorer demographics. If you think about it, this is all that keeps poorer, urban folks from revolting. You have cheap liquor, cable tv, sneakers….(oh and drugs, lots of drugs) and that’s just in the lowest, urban sphere. In the suburban sphere you have Apple products, riding mowers, German cars (still lots of booze, just microbrews, wine and scotch….all things I love btw), etc. All this shit is a distraction from real issues that “matter.” If it weren’t for those things, the U.S. might have continued on the revolutionary path started in the 1960s. Consumerism is the great uniter. Everyone can get excited about an iPad and forget about reality for awhile. Hooray for new stuff.

            • No mention of rampant drug use in rural areas? Oxycontin is called Hillbilly heroin. I hear West Verginia has a high rate of goventment dependancy. I hear 1/3 of people in Alabama are on food stamps. It’s not just in the cities.

            • In the suburbs you have prescription drug addicts, but they are still addicts.
              I bought a really nice brand new pair of Skecher tennis shoes the other day at a thrift shop. They still had stickers on the bottom showing they had never even been tried on on a non carpeted floor.
              My reeboks were worn out (I love my tennies and I hate to go to a new pair and won’t until absolutely necessary) so I bought them for $4. The thrift shop is for a religious charity supporting an abused children’s shelter. That isn’t necessary to me, but at least the money was going to a good cause & no sales tax. People who pay full pric for new items are insane

          • ” I just read that people are willing to pay $400.00 for a pair of the Kayne West sneakers.”

            I say let them. It keeps the prepping supplies cheaper.

            I’m able to rack up an amazing amount of supplies on-the-cheap while they focus on iPads and pricey shoes. Let me give you some examples:

            * Make a bare-bones means of feeding two people for a month, for less than $35. Start with beans, lentils, split peas… around $1 for each 1 lb bag, and each pound of the stuff contains 10-12 servings. Each pound fits beautifully in a sandwich-sized ziploc bag. $15 of dry goods gets you around 165 servings, and almost fills a 4-5 gal. food bucket. Dried milk costs $8 for 64oz. of Wal-Mart brand stuff (enough to make 5 gallons of milk). Maybe spend $10 for two small containers of cheap spices and 2-4 cans of tomato paste. Be sure to put in a can of salt – maybe $1 per 26oz. can. $34 can feed two people for four weeks, with enough salt left over for preserving any small animals and/or fish you happen to catch in that time.

            * Want that $35 can to provide more than the basic bits? Add in a 16 oz. jar of honey ($4), 1 lb of sugar (about $1 per lb), 5 lbs of self-rising flour ($5), a small can of baking powder ($3.50) and a box of cheap tea bags ($2.50) you now have a bit more than basic, for $50 . It will feed you for a month, minus meats.

            * Want some meat in that diet? Add four $4 (16oz) cans of canned ham, and now the two of you can have meat twice a week for that month, and the 5-gallon bucket ends up costing you $66 A cheap $4 bottle of 100 one-per-day multivitamins finishes the whole thing and brings the total to $70

            So, for just a bit over the cost of a new XBox/PS3 console game, you can feed two people for a month. The space taken up is around two 4-gal buckets if you pack it right. O2 absorbers, a bit of electrical tape, and a bit of duct tape rounds it out and keeps the whole wad good to go for 5-10 years, with most components lasting up to 20, and things like the salt lasing for literally your lifetime.

            But wait! we’re not done yet!

            * Get a cheap-but-decent .177 pump air rifle ($45) and 2500 .177 caliber pointed pellets ($30 for two 1250-rd cartons), and you now have a means to snag small game (rabbit-sized and smaller) for at least a year, without spending a mint to do it.

            * fishing gear – and I don’t mean just a rod and reel. small nets are relatively cheap, as are trotlines and all the bits you’ll need to fish for keeps. All of it is fairly cheap if you know where to look.

            * get up a good cast-iron pots and pans collection. Garage sales are awesome places to look, and rehabilitating them is easy: a little steel wool, some dish soap and elbow grease, then a little high-end canola oil on a paper towel, and 1 hour in the oven at 350 degrees? Good as new, and able to cook beautifully on even the crudest campfires. I was able to get up a humble but useful collection (a couple of skillets, two pots, and a couple dutch ovens) for less than $50.

            As you can see… let the less-aware spend a ton of money on shoes. I’ll spend on my future.

            • Prepping 101 – great post for beginners, OQ!!!


            • Spot on! Of course, most importantly you will need to be near a source of water that will remain drinkable after TSHTF. Either that or you’ll need one heck of a good filter system.
              No matter how much water you store, if you don’t have a means to collect as much as you use then you will be forced to relocate and any travel post Schumer will be difficult and dangerous, especially when you have something as valauble as food on hand.

            • Wanted to add a bit of news I learned at Walmart last nite. The sales person in the Sports Dept is an ex marine and very much into wpns. He told me last nite, in three hrs, five wpns were purchased and one put on “hold”. Three of the five were home defense type wpns. He said not only was it very busy, but he is having a problem keeping 9mm, .22, and shotgun ammo in stock. Not only that, but packets of freeze dried food for camping are going out. He told me “look at the bare spots on the shelves.” He further said “I could’ve sold four more weapons for the bare areas now in the gun rack.”

            • Excellent suggestions! Wanted to recommend for salting purposes buying a 50lb block of salt at Tractor Supply or other farm equipment store for about $5. Of course it states that it is not for human consumption but if i’m not mistaken, is the same type of salt as table salt (minus the iodide). This should last for a long time and be essential in salting meats and fish for preservation. Thanks all for the creative and frugal suggestions everyone!

            • And for a pack of TP or two, or a 2 liter of rice, or a 6 pack of ramen noodles, you just may get some size 10/11 Kayne West sneakers….by the way what are Kayne West sneakers??

            • Aldi has salt for .35 per 20 oz can.

            • @ Odd Questioner. It is all flash that these idiots want and are willing to shell out $400 so they can be Kayne West trend setter to all their loser friends. They can always just go get some government cheese to eat. Last year I wrote on another web site what you can get of each survival item for about $100. Please check it out and see what you think. http://modernsurvivalblog.com/preps/survival-preparedness-for-100-dollars/

              Prices have gone up since then, and you can add 5-10% on to most items for inflation but you can see just how much you can get for survival for just $100. Recently canned vegetable went on sale for 50 cents here in town like last year and you could get 200 cans of food for 100 dollars. Much can still be bought for $100, but that time is rapidly beginning to close. Why anyone would purchase a pair of shoes, other than for a medical reason, for $400 really shows how incredibly stupid most of the population has become. I say it again, thank goodness for the 1% that prepare and use their brains. The TOP 1%.

            • My Italian ancestors could pull off similar meals that were in essence peasant food so they could feed a dozen kids on almost no cost. Those meals now command $20 a plate.

              Pasta fazole (beans and pasta soup / stew) and broccoli rabe (wild broccoli) powered Rocky Marciano. If it grew, flew, swam, crawled, walked or even stood still and did not walk on two legs it was edible. Given enough olive oil, garlic, rosemary, red wine, salt and pepper it was very tasty too.

              You can eat real good for cheap.

            • Now that was an AMAZING informative post!!! Well done!

            • ” Get a cheap-but-decent .177 pump air rifle ($45) and 2500 .177 caliber pointed pellets ($30 for two 1250-rd cartons), and you now have a means to snag small game (rabbit-sized and smaller) for at least a year, without spending a mint to do it.”

              Great advice! So is adding a bow and some arrows. This can be an outstanding small game and fish getter.

              “Garage sales are awesome places to look, and rehabilitating them is easy: a little steel wool, some dish soap and elbow grease…”

              Also very good advice. My version of “elbow grease” is to use a dry brass brush in my electric drill. I get these at Harbor Freight for cheap and they really make cleaning hard-core dirty pots and pans a breeze.

          • And $200 for a pair of pants with holes already in them

            • I could put holes in those pants for free.

            • Hey I’ve got 4 pair with holes make someone a deal $200 for all of em….lol

          • Could not agree more with your statement!

            • @ old soldier ~

              In response to your previous post regarding the sales of weapons and shortages of ammo.

              I was in my local Outdoor World just yesterday to use a gift certificate before it expired. This is in Hollywood, FL, near Ft. Lauderdale. I ran into a couple up from Miami to purchase .22 cal. lr ammo. He stated that he was unable to find .22 ammo in ‘brick’ (500 rnd.)sized quantities in any of the stores closer to home. He was buying 2 bricks and wondering if he shouldn’t buy 3 while he could. They drove for at least an hour in the best of traffic conditions to buy .22 ammo.

              The size of the ammunition section had also noticeably shrunk in size. One of the clerks said that their distributors were having problems with capacity and unable to fill all orders and that some calibers of ammo were being “rationed” out to retailers.

              There were very noticeable ‘holes’ in the inventory of handguns in the glass display cases and empty spots in the racks along the wall for ‘long-guns’.

              President Obama comes on the ‘twonkie’ Friday AM with a previously unscheduled news conference. He says that (essentially); “Europe has to get their financial house in order, they know what they need to do and if they don’t, then the entire world economy could take a big hit.” “The United States would be effected to varying degrees,depending of course, upon the severity of the situation in Europe.”

              Ya think, Mr. President? Hell yes the United States will be effected; Europe is our biggest trading partners in terms of folks buying American Made Products.

              Then Saturday, I hear that Spain’s banks alone need a minimum of 40 billion E to fish their ass out of the financial toilet.

              Today I read that the cost to save the entire European banking system could be as high as 120 billion E. Sorry, but that kind of money doesn’t exist out there in the financial world; unless you print it up out of thin air that is.

              The ‘pucker-factor’ is high out there boys & girls. We have entered into a “what the fuck???” moment and are now headed directly into a “holly-shit!!!!!” type of experience.

              God bless and good luck to all who post here. Time really doesn’t seem to be on our side.

            • Madmarkie. I heard the same rationing of ammo from people at wallmart. If wallmart is getting rationed…. Makes you wonder..

          • We are doomed as a country. I just read that people are willing to pay $400.00 for a pair of the Kayne West sneakers. The people who want them most are on welfare.


            The people who want them most , are on welfare….

            Ummm…. That sounds like a statement of fact.
            Link?…. Source?
            Maybe an ‘IMHO’ would help keep you from appearing as biased, or ignorant…
            You know, like people from the ghetto, etc.
            But, hey , what do I know? You’re the one with 35 ‘likes’
            Keep it Klassy.. Oops.. Classy, folks.
            I imagine several upstanding patriots, agree with you.
            The kind that shoot desperate, innocent PEOPLE on bridges, in times of crisis.

            • You’ve gone and made me do it anon. So here’s one if you want I’ll get you the others. This is just the first on the pile of hits I got and I won’t read through the others unless I have to. I’m not here to pick a fight and I do know of part of what your saying.

              The Lord Is Righteous.
              Standing by in Texas.

            • (987ampradio.cbslocal.com/2012/06/06/trendingonthe10s-kanye-west-new-shoes-cause-riots/)

          • Ayn Rand said, and no I’m not a follower: “You can ignore reality, but you can’t ignore the consequences of reality”. When anyone lives beyond their means they eventually run out of money, then credit, and all they are left with is debt. That’s where we and the EU are now. Every socialist nation in Europe is cutting back on their entitlement programs because they have become too costly, especially in Sweden and Germany. And right now, they are the only two (2) countries with their heads above water, for now. We and the PIIGS all got drunk off of the same drink: false prosperity through government spending. Well now it’s hangover time. Good everyone on your preps, I believe our time is short. But I could be wrong.

            • “When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you
              see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce
              nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods,
              but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by
              work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you
              – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice –
              you may know that your society is doomed.”……….. Ayn Rand

          • ECB bailout attempt of Spain tomorrow..I predict failure,Since it’s widely KNOW this wont even scratch the surface of all the shit they bought from us.
            Get ready …………

          • Can you name one place on this Earth where the Negro race has occupied that has changed from a decent place to a better place? Every one in America has moved from most major cities because the Negro has moved in and made it WORSE? I tell them you are lucky to be here, cause most all of Africa is a feces hole. I would like to send them back to Africa, they would not live long with those 400$ sneakers and holes in the pants. By the way, we do not want to see your underwear. This goes for the Whiggers too.

            • Took me 30 years to figure out why sports figures in the last 3 decades spend as much time in court/jail as playing sports…anyone else figure it out yet???
              Call it what you want..in the 50s/60s it was unheard of for a successful pro to even get a traffic citation or arrested for a fist fight.
              You know it’s true.

            • pherral,
              Why exclusively blame the Negro? There is a huge immoral culture who are in power and will do everything to sustain their position. I would say the anglo face is more associated with the G5 leadership and banking system, however there are a few uppper-level brown faces involved these days. I don’t buy that the worse class are black or any other particular race or ethnic group. Why do black communities tend to lag economically – are there economic controls in place? It works for the G5 against the rest of the brown faced world.

            • Ive spent a lot of time in Africa. Most Africans are hard working, honest people. The Welfare baby is a purely American invention which is seeping into western Europe. The $400 sneaker, 50in flatscreen tv, $2000 rims and tires beater owned by welfare person is also a purley American invention and spans all races. Not just blacks. If you want to hate and blame someone, Blame the government and politicians who have created this mess.

            • Pherral Phooker: I am frequently amazed, bewildered, and almost incredulous – when I see the extent and the diabolically evil effectiveness of the enemy owned media’s brainwashing of White European people with regards to the realities of race.

              Whites appear to be almost uniquely susceptible to this kind of dangerous and potentially fatal indoctrination, as is evidenced on a daily basis when we review the endless number of crime news stories that recount the brutal assaults, vicious rapes, tortures, mutilations and horrific murders of Whites by blacks or other hostile and predatory minorities – and when the details of these criminal acts are investigated, all too often, we will learn that these naive, deracinated, racially clueless White victims had stupidly wandered into dangerous areas of town or taken rides on public transportation where there were large concentrations of blacks or mestizos. Or, in the case of White females – had either accepted rides from a car load of blacks or allowed blacks or mestizos to hitch a ride with them.

              End result: White female winds up with a tag on her toe and laying on a slab down at the city morgue and the forensics cops are poking Q-tips into her private parts, looking for DNA evidence to help them solve the crime. These dumb bitches might as well as had a sign hanging around their necks which read: Please rape and murder me.

              So, to hell with Political Correctness B.S. Simple survival requires Whites to be racially conscious and racially aware. Which helps make Whites racially cautious and this would do more to reduce minority on White crime than any of this Utopian, liberal, Political Correct horse manure that flows out of these nauseating white liberals.

              Ah, but maybe there is a sinister reason why so many of these self-hating, race denying people want to prevent Whites from becoming racially awake? Why they want to try to equate White racial awareness with ‘racism’, while at the same time, racial awareness by all non-white groups is cheered and celebrated?

              Let’s speculate as to what that sinister reason might be, why don’t we. Might the reason be – that for as long as Whites continue to not think tribally – as all other races do – Whites will continue to put themselves in harms way and be raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered by non-white predators who they fail to see as being dangerous?

              Gosh darnit, now that sounds to me like someone wants to see the genocide of White European people, because race denial is a surefire formula to reach that objective.

            • Whiggers drive hoopies too.

            • I still have not seen an answer on the question I posed.
              I can say that Egypt about 6000+- years ago MAY have been one of those places, but it took a Jewish boy named Joseph to keep them from economic ruin. AND HE WAS A “WHITE BOY”.
              I am not a racist, I hate/love everyone equally, but you have to prove to me that you are worth my time and effort, for me to accept you as a friend of mine. I have black, white, brown, yellow and red friends, but I have the same “colors” of people who are enemies. But the fact still stands, name me one place on this planet Earth where Blacks have occupied over any length of time, and the rest of the population will live beside them in harmony? You cannot name one, that is the reason I asked the question.

          • What do you mean “WE”, mammal? Stupid, lazy good for nothings on Wall Street and in the projects might be doomed. Brain dead ‘burb dwellers who eat out at restaurants every night and have no supplies or tools on hand might be doomed. That doesn’t mean that “WE” are doomed, far from it!

            Red Leader, I can teach school children, build a website, program a computer, and speak at Tea party rallies. I can also grow food, dig ditches, fix toilets, fell trees, split firewood and shoot guns.

            Like HELL I’m doomed!

          • Kayne West sneakers, for only $400 !? Where can I get some?

            • Still cant outrun a 5.45 even with kaynes on, but your welcome to try…

          • AQUIRE SILVER as fast as you can….

            Still below thirty dollars.

            Several states have ALREADY passed laws to allow you to make purchases, ELEVEN more states are “preparing to”

            Obingo/Helicopter ben are “preparing”for the end, maybe we all should….

            PS spanish bailout failed this morn….just as we thought….Watch CNN/CNBC and do the opposite of what they tell you to do….you’ll be just fine…

          • the welfare prep, huh

          • what?! What makes you think they are on welfare?? What an ignorant statement!

        • #11) Some folks have a clue, but most do not, or at most treat it as a joke. The few that have a clue are largely focused on generalities, and have no specific ideas.

          Proof? See for yourself: http://www.city-data.com/forum/portland/1600173-if-pdx-evacuated-where-would-you.html

          This was a small research project of mine, to see how ordinary folks would react. I was surprised to see a couple of serious responses, but most were joking in nature, and one seriously insisted that people would generally come together of their own accord.

          Personally, I’m damned glad I don’t live anywhere near that town, and know how to leave it in a hurry by at least 4-5 different routes (between there and home) if needed.

          • i live in the pdx area and the sad thing is, is that i here comments all the time about how things are going to get better, i read your city data blog and for me that is nothing new and is truely old news around here.. the people that live here are liberal/self indulgent, entitlelists, even though i live in vancouver not portland, or. its still the same… when the shtf it would take about 3-9 months for the undesireables to take them selves out and for there to some normalicy to return, but untill then it wont be good and very dangerous to live around here… all we can do here in pdx is to have a good network of other preppers to join together with and to hold fast to the supplies and resorces we have stored up on

          • @deano:

            Agreed. On the other hand, I simply took myself out of the metro area entirely (I still go in a couple days a week).

            I will say one thing about PDX though – they will likely come apart last. I’m not sure if I can pin it on the whole community attitude, or of sheer passivity, but it’ll likely hold together longer than, say, Los Angeles, Seattle, or other large cities… only question is – how long?

            • @old questioner

              i wish we could remove ourselves from the area and out to a more secluded spot, unfortunately for us thats not an option…. as far as pdx coming apart last or hanging in until all else fails, there is a weird attitude here that is of an occult nature that give these sheeple something to cling to and by doing so they dont see the biblically prophetic things that are about to happen on this world,

        • When we started prepping three years ago, I figured that our sense of urgency would reduce as our stores increased. Sadly, quite the opposite has happened. Our worry and fretting has increased by multiples. Stories such as this one, factual, provable, and urgent are killing us. The ‘real’ news is the inexorable imminent collapse. The ‘unreported news’.

          This is the time when we should discreetly be seeking out those of like mind and spirit. From a practical standpoint this is the most difficult part fbprepping. One simoly cannot advertise for partners in these ventures.

          During these times I thank God we live in Texas. In fact I cannot think of a single other Texan acquaintance who feels otherwise.

          • Hey, I’m in ky, and I wish I was in Texas!!!!

            • i , for one, am extremely grateful im NOT in texas. even more gratefulim not in florida. very grateful im not anywhere in america .

            • I’ in Wyo, and as far as spot goes I could ask for no better.

            • Me too 😉

          • It’s easy to let subtle fear grip you.

            Personally, with each additional month of food and such stashed, I feel a bit calmer and less urged (if that’s a proper way to put it).

            It becomes less of an ‘oh shit I have to survive!’ attitude, and more of a ‘how can I do this in relative comfort and security, and at the same time help my neighbors rebuild?’ sort of thing.

            Out here, I don’t mind helping my neighbors as much, for two reasons: first, there aren’t as many of them, and second, they have a far better overall attitude (and skills) towards this sort of thing.

            • In one of you posts you ask how long will wine keep without major efforts to keep it., Answer is directly related to alcohol content, Below 11%, not long, a few months, at about 17%, a few years. Above that, the fortified wines will keep a long time, Brandy nearly forever and whiskey forever,

            • That makes sense.

              Here’s what I’m (generally) restricted to insofar as storing wine for use in church for Eucharist:


              So technically we’re good to 18% – any higher, and it ain’t happening. But then, that’s a couple of years’ worth of storage. We do have a lot of excellent wineries in and around Oregon, and most are strictly organic. This means post-collapse, I can venture out to one annually, and either barter with an existing owner (or simply help myself if no owner is present), and make it myself.

        • I’m Sorry. NDAA Bill, The Executive Order, DHS, TSA, 100+ million americans either homless, jobless, or on the brink of it!!!! And now the Economic Doomsday of Greece! Is anyone else getting tired of waiting for the “SHIT” to hit the fans? I do know better in my mind, but feel like it is never going to happen.

          • It’ll take time. I figure it’ll be within a decade at most, but in all honesty we both could be comfortably dead of old age before it finally hits the ground.

            Either way, I’ll happily prepare, keeping it quiet, and at the same time take time out to enjoy life as it is now.

            If I need the supplies, I have them. If I don’t, well, they don’t take up that much room. Besides, I actually enjoy hunting, camping, fishing, and even some bushcraft once in awhile.

            • Additional comment on wine If you need it, forget what the “Church” admin says, buy some Brandy and dilute it as needed. I’m not a believer; but if GOD is, then he will understand you are doing your best. A bunch of church bureaucrats don’t have the yank HE does. If HE isn’t understanding and forgiving? What’s the point?

        • Manos,this is a private free local paper thats booming inthe area looking for writers aroud the world to report the breakdown going on .. althought the site is a little choppy the paper, is excellent and spreading like wildfire. not bad for a 24 yr old ambitious woman in our time. http://www.brainstream.us/ contact her if interested..

      2. These are things most of us expect. Not so much for the non-enlightened.

        • Right you are, OSM. I’ve pretty much ceased spreading my views and warnings to most people I know, and now just concentrate on the family and friends closest around me.

          Like Mike Ruppert said, in a crisis situation like on the Titanic, for example, you’re likely to run into three general groups of people: 1: the deer-in-the-headlights type who are blindsided by it all and don’t understand it or what’s coming next; 2: the ones who realize the ship’s sinking and are ready and willing to help; and 3: the ones who laugh at us, call us conspiracy theorists, doomsdayers, etc, etc, and think the ship’s un-effing-sinkable. Now….who will you spend your efforts helping first??

          Gold Leader standing by.

          • I think, when the time comes here, on this continent… You will very quickly and clearly see, there is no group you will be spending your efforts ‘helping’ you will go into survival mode. You help yourself… And whoever happens to be beside you, teams up with you.

        • I’ve read this before elsewhere and although it is interesting to hear about prison food shortages, I would much more like to hear how people like me are doing. How about the rural Greek with a large garden, some small livestock, and self-sufficient water and power?

          I know tragedy sells, but occasionally it would be great to hear a success story.

          • We preppers are the success story, only history is written by the winners…
            We will be the winners, not only survivors.

          • There is no news there, they are prepared, its only when the cities run out of food, and mobs of zombies head for rural areas, then you will hear news of the self suficient. Not until then though.

          • To Prepared Pastor and all,
            Strange thing happened at church this evening. Our priest spoke from the altar and made a formal request of everyone. His words: “With things happening in our nation, I may need to reach you with information that can’t wait until the following Saturday or Sunday. Please write your e-mail address on a piece of paper and put it in the collection basket.”
            Has anyone else heard this from their priest or minister?
            What’s going on?

            • i have not, but maybe its a time for people to come together if things do fail while internet is still up or ways to get in touch with you to help or barter etc. that is my guess and only guess

            • Without a doubt, it’s tribes, community, friends and family that will allow the prepared to survive. A lone wolf, regardless of degree of preparedness, will face an uphill battle.

              Gold Leader standing by.

            • Oh, My God…if only just one of the two churches I tried in the last 3 years were that ‘in tune’.

            • Just curious.. where are you located and what denomination?

            • the dept of Home land Security has a program where they recruited a huge bunch of religous leaders & ministers/pastors/reverends/priests etc. and gave them training to “calm” their flocks during “emergencies”.

              You need to listen to what your religious advisor is saying and then evaluate whether it is the NWO message coming from their mouths before you decide what to do.

            • M+ Former Army Airborne Chaplain, 20+ yrs. Glad to see another Padre who is speaking about helping prepare his parishoners. I advise like-minded Catholics to store two bottles of Mass wine. Have Mass kit, will travel. My Honda scooter gets 100 mpg. I would like to touch base with this good Pastor.

            • Not on my end, but he’s a Jesuit (and a bit more liberal than most), so I’m not surprised.

            • @Fr. Chuck:

              From what I’ve researched on altar wine, I know it has to be free of sulfides and preservatives, for starters (Canon Law goes into some real detail about this). But there’s one detail I haven’t found yet: Any ideas as to how long such wine will store (assuming a cool, dark place to store it) before it turns to vinegar? Also, a link or two to some sources of where one can buy the stuff would be nice (I haven’t looked yet).

              Also, some fun bits to throw out there – the candles have to be beeswax, if memory serves (as opposed to paraffin or rendered waxy animal fats).

              I just realized something: Most Catholics are registered at the particular parish they go to. This includes names, phone numbers, and home addresses. I’m thinking that if it were for SHTF, the priest would have simply asked you to update that registration if you moved, got a different number, etc.

              Given that, I’m thinking the email thing is most likely for newsletters and such.

            • I’m also in the mountain state and most protestant churches here at least have already collected this information. Since a church is a community, we are connected via email, Facebook, and text messaging.

              Larger churches often have home groups/cell groups that meet during the week. By contacting the home group leaders who in turn contact their own cell members, we can disperse information face-to-face as well.

              We have been talking about starting a home group just for preppers, but no one has been willing to risk OPSEC by opening up their home.

            • It’s funny that you say that WVAF – our pastor asked for email addresses today also, although he said it was so the bulletin could be sent that way.

            • I have heard that community leaders and preachers have been targeted by the powers that be, as a means of communicating to the masses what to do when the SHTF. ie, “It’s for our own good not to fight and go to the FEMA camps” etc. The preachers will be used as a way to control many people.

          • Scary to think somebody will be “merciful” and just open the prison gates.

      3. Have we mentioned prepping on this site before?


        • “I was prepping when prepping wasn’t cool”….sung to the tune by Barbara Mandrel, “I was country when country wasn’t cool”. Sure do miss those girls’ singing and playing. Barbara, Louise and Erline…..sigh..

          • At different times I think I had a crush on each of them. Easy on the eyes.

            • Reba McEntyre, all the way.

              (…and I don’t even *like* country music.)

        • Roger That, Manned and ready standing by out!

      4. america better wake up and soon…

        • The World better wake up soon…

        • Yep

        • America will not wake up. Most won’t even open their eyes while the collapse is happening. They will starve, freeze or get murdered while they wait for the gov’t to come save them.
          We’ve been trained to do that. The gov’t has spent decades telling us that we need them and more of them. That all our problems will be solved by them but never created by them. Personal responsibility has been gone now for decades, it’s someone elses fault for my failures. Tenacity gone, dedication gone, loyalty gone. Everything that built this country has gone by the wayside.
          So how do we not end in an epic failure? Just a matter of time.

        • I can’t believe you guys & gals don’t like this good ol song! shaking my head… LOL!!!!!!!

      5. One thing about living in the country, I get practice living without grid power almost every winter, and even during thunderstorms. Two winters ago, we were without power from grid for almost 3 weeks. Incontinent ? Sure, but with a little planning things are fairly normal.

        Also, in a rural area, I believe that the local law enforcement will remain “on the job” as long as the citizens support them. However, the outside forces are my main concerns. How many “outsiders” will show up from wherever, and expect to be taken care of..??

        • Thanks spell check for trying to help…..

          Incontinent = inconvenient

          • Funny…but so true

          • It’s okay…Zinger….many of us old seniors that have had female surgery know one of those words intimately; can you guess which one?? If not, ask a senior lady!!!

          • Off topic, but i once sent an email that after receiving it back the words ‘Let’s Celebrate’ came back with ‘Let’s Cellulite’ Thanks spell check indeed…………

      6. next 3-6 months will determin

      7. 11. Nothing’s more helpless than a “Nannyless American.”

          • BF, catch Peter Schiff quite often on kingsworldnews.com

            • Good stuff huh? “:)

      8. Just added a new toy to my toybox. GSG-5 .22LR
        MP-5 clone. $150.00

        Fun as shit.

        Now if I could only remember who I sold all those other semi-automatic handguns to. Oh well.

        • I thought you lost the. In a boating accident lol

        • I don’t know if this is your or not but some preppers have 15 guns. It just doesn’t make any sense. I have Mossberg 32 gauge shotguns that fire slugs or shot so I figure I’m good for short range and medium range.

          • i have about 20 different guns, we just like to shoot different guns at different times. the most important thing is 32 guage is a odd gauge. 12 guage will be the most available in case you need to find more ammo but as long as you have a lot you should be good. Remember too that you might be behind a large rock getting shot at, dont think you will always be in your house while the bad guys come up and knock, they will shoot what they can see so my point is too make sure you always carry extra ammo with you at all times ready to reload quickly, because many might find they run out and then its over. thats all never underestimate your enemy,.

            • Most will pretend to be good guys, just like now. They will never get close if they look like something from Mad Max. Most street gunfights occur at close range. One thing to remember when bragging about long range marksmanship, which BTW is never a bad skill to have, is that in all but a TEOTWAKI situation, you stand a real good chance of answering for your actions. Hard to claim self defense when you make a head shot at 300 meters. Many bad guys would rather hide behind a car and snipe you as you go to the outhouse or ambush you at the market and figure they would then have an easier time looting your house and doing as they please with your family.

          • I’m, with you. I’ve got several hunting rifles, but when it comes down to it I’m keeping my Winchester 1300. It’s all camo; stock, barrel and receiver. Interchangeable chokes, I even got a rifled slug choke. I bought it back in 2003 at gander mountain off the consignment shelf for $250. It’s dropped over a dozen whitetails, a few turkeys and lots of rabbits.

          • 32 gauge Mossberg shotgun? hmmm you better get some extra ammo for that gun.
            Let me know where they sell it. They might have some ammo for my 47 gauge.
            Just yanking your chain,Sorry.
            You had Better check what gauge Mossberg ya have there.
            As of recently Mossberg only makes 12 and 20 gauge.
            They might still have a .410 which is really a caliber.
            And a few years ago a 16 and 28 and maybe way back a 10 but never to my knowledge
            a 32 gauge.I hope if it ever comes down to it, you don’t run into someone
            with a scoped rifle at a distance or you will realize why people
            have a few different kinds of guns.If you were a hunter you would know
            why people have several different kinds.Guns are really just a tool
            and you use the best tool for the job at hand.
            Have you ever heard the saying that goes
            something like “if the only tool you have is a hammer then you tend to see every
            problem as a nail.” same goes for a gun. a deer or zombie At 200+ yards I would
            take my rifled muzzle loader from the 1800’s era over your shotgun any day, and
            there wouldn’t be much left of a small bird or squirrel if you had a close shot
            with a 12 gauge. a pellet or bb gun or .22 would be the choice.A side note for
            prepping get a 50 pound bag of bird seed to lure in a never ending supply of
            small game to be silently harvested from the comfort of you window with a pellet gun.
            A Shotgun is a great all around hunting and home defense gun but
            not the end all be all.But any gun you choose to own you need to know
            how it works,be able to safely load it and unload it
            (with the right gauge ammo…wink) and take it down to clean
            and most importantly, practice with it to become a competent
            gun owner and not just a person that has a gun too.

          • 15 guns does not make any sense??? Buddy that is because you do not think out side of the box! I have a .22 rifle set aside for hunting rabbit and what not. A 12 gauge set aside for home defense. A .45 that will never leave my side! See where I am going with this? Preppers have multiple guns, because, what do you do when that one gun you have gets lost, stolen, broken, or whatever? Have a few other guns set aside for…(everyone say it with me) BARTER ITEMS!!! Noobs.

            • I would never use a gun as a barter item. I would GIVE a gun to someone I really trusted but that’s about it. OK, you have an explanation for 3 of your guns. What about the other 12?

            • We have a dozen guns (excluding air guns). HOME: one handgun for each adult in the family, a battle rifle, 12 gauge shotgun for us and 410 for teenagers, and my customized Ruger 10/22. BUG OUT BAG: U.S. Survival AR-7 22LR. CACHED AT RETREAT: a sniper/deer rifle, an antique high power rifle, and a handful of 22LR rifles along with most of our ammo.

              I purchased a collection from someone charged with a felony who would not be allowed to own firearms and sold off some so only have about $1,500 in them. We could get by with less, but if unprepared relatives find out our bug out location, they will be unarmed.

          • Ah. around here, you only get 15 guns at the baby shower and its considered a failure

            • Now, that’s funny!!!

          • you may have to loan some of those out to others who didn’t get guns, or had them confiscated…

          • I don’t have 15 guns…I would if my bride would let me. Next will be Mossburg 500 and then something in .223 then 7.62, then done…really…This gsg-5 is a flipping blast to shoot. I just need someone to stand behind me loading magazines. lol

          • Speaking of Mossbergs, I just picked up a Mossberg 4×4 300 Win mag Sunday that I won in a fire company raffle.I don’t know anything about this caliber rifle as I am partial to a 30.06 for hunting.Anybody have an opinion on this rifle? I haven’t shot it yet. I have to scope it first as it doesn’t have iron sights.

            • Don’t know anything about the rifle. Other than Moss makes a reasonable gun. 300 Win Mag is an awesome cartridge, But mostly it’s a 30-06; That the people who made it don’t have to worry about a lot of old guns, as they do in -06. Costs more also.

          • We have been hitting all the local auctions buying lots of things that will help during hard times….for little to nothing. Lots of “OLD fashioned” hand tools, grinders and such….all the things that people use to use when they didn’t have any electricity.

            • Thrift stores also great places to shop – Salvation Army, Good Will, etc. We had a lucky find the other day – two old wooden clothes dryers! Each has a tripod thing that sits on the floor and twelve dowel rods that slide up and out a small metal circle at the top. Looks like a sunburst when fully opened. 🙂

        • there is alot of the “cant quite remember the guys name that I sold all my guns to’ going on out there. 😉 and” you know with this economy, I had to sell my guns to feed my family” I have had a recent case of that myself.

      9. Does anyone else feel like they are slowly going up the first big hill of the rollercoaster, or is it just me?

        • Nope–this house is on the second or third loop–I lose count with CONgress and Madstreammedia as they are..

        • I dont think we are on the ride yet, we lost our tickets to get into the park in 2008 and now we are thinking which ride we are going to get on. we have not seen anything really too bad yet, besides jobs being lost and a loser president who his kids dont even respect since he lies to them just as he does himself and everyone else in this world. I never been into politics more now than any other time because of this asshole in charge. Obama is a 2 faced lying snake.

          • Because Bush and romney are any better? If you can’t see there is only one party in washington or even in your local state and the name is the demopublican party then you will never get past their control.

            By getting you to hate one guy over another because of color or creed you are blind to the real control over you.
            They are all bad, equally bad. Wake up.

            • dish, they have not made me hate obama and want to go with the other party, i’m not a romney fan either but he is less dangerous than obama. Color or creed has not blinded me either, I think most of us are well informed what is going on and how the game is played. I do agree they are all bad and i have been awake for a long time. I know your concearn and the thing on this post is many of us know whats going on and understand and have a lot of common sense but some of us have trouble getting thoughts into words when trying to write what you really feel or think. I’m one of them, never been good at writing.

      10. Beans are going to be more important than bullets.
        Besides the ability to grow food and the skill to build/repair simple machines
        will be worth more than a ton of gold or bullets.
        I am praying for all my family in Greece.


        • Red

          Thinking of you and yours.

          Take care

        • I think the secret is balance. With only beans you have no way to defending them, with only guns you have no way of feeding yourself. I wouldn’t want to be without either of these.

          • Saddle up

            Excellent point. Wish I’d said that

            Take cre

            • Mac did a piece awhile back and for me is a possible worse case scenario for lawlessness.


            • Burt

              I thought of you and the lonemum (the other Brit in the forum).

              Just an idea!

              As Britain is a bit strict on weapon rules, if you consider doing some shopping, why don`t you visit the neighbors. In many EU countries you can buy weapons and items for self defence without restrictions. In Belgium you can buy crossbows. Germany is a good place to get pepper spray. In some countries you can even buy a front loading revolver without a licence. You shouldn`t fly though and pay cash.

              If you are a law abiding citizen, they won`t come after you anyway. The British police is far too busy.

        • Redgypsy,

          How bad it gets is going to be different for everyone. Some will have it bad enough that fight or flight will be crucial for themselves. I’ve talked with many different people across the country and some may be as blessed as your perceptions of growing and building and helping one another.

          Some I term as Zombie Preppers are mainly preparing with weaponry with little regards for food or water and by my perception intend to exterminate what they term as “undesirables” if the conditions in the local get bad enough. It’s made me take addition provisions to caching and defensive assessment of my properties. So I’m glad that I spoke with most of them.

          Absolute worse case you might have to fall back into the countryside for long stints. So, in my view field gear is crucial part of any preps.

          Lord is Righteous.
          Standing by in Texas.

          • @JCSof God….Lots of Great ideas from all. You mentioned Caching…if I were to use an ABS plastic pipe(maybe 12’long) how deep should it be buried? (1st time posting, but am addicted to this site for about 4mos. now) Thanx to all of you, and definately praying daily for Manos and his family, as you all are. What a great site!!

            • Canadian Canuk,

              If you need to get to your cache faster and with only an entrenching tool, then shallow is better I’d say. About a foot or two above what it is your burying so the animals don’t get it. If you decide to go deep because you have access to heavy equipment you would need something like sch40 PVC or ammo cans. If you decide to go with PVC make sure you have left adequate space at one end if you have to cut the cap to get to the contents. Having livestock takes the plastic totes out of the equation. I’ve not got all the answer even to caching so if anyone got tips too, I’d appreciate them.

              Caching to me is for extreme man made events, like repeal of the 2nd Amendment or Mad Max (for now IMO unlikely) and should be done away from raider magnets like your home.

              The Lord is Righteous.
              Standing by in Texas.

          • I just gotta tell this one..it really burns my toast and obviously, with the negative comments after the post, I’m not alone..
            On a major prepper site, a post included a comment asking how to keep clothes soft when line drying…because, quote—Towels are my main concern, as I have a fussy city husband–unquote.
            Well, one post told her to tell hubby to cowboy up!!!
            That will definitely be the last of his worries WHEN tshtf!!

            • lol

          • Viking

            Excellent idea…but get brought bringing them in and it’s up to 5 years jail.

            A female I know brought in a very small item, can of mace. £500 fine and three months suspended sentence. As a result, no more nursing career.

            Guns and knives are way higher penalties, but the knife bit I have sussed, I am a qualified diver, and as such am allow dive knives….have you seen the size of some of those beauties lol

            I frequent shark infested waters officer……

            Take care

        • Really? If you live in the US what’s going to stop someone from just shooting you and taking everything you have beans included? I have to chuckle every time I hear this about anything being worth more than ammo or guns. I mean this is just common sense that if shit go bad there’s going to be people that will kill you for food. Anyways good luck with that.

          • ” I have to chuckle every time I hear this about anything being worth more than ammo or guns.”

            Bows, arrows, crossbows, and bolts. Maybe a good sword to go with it. A muzzle-loader wouldn’t be a bad idea either, assuming you have enough lead laying around, and the means to make gunpowder from scratch.

            Why? Because 5 years post-collapse, and most guns will become glorified clubs.

            • Sore up on powder and bullets.

              Save your brass

            • I have had this conversation with several of my friends about going back to caveman days. I don’t think so. Now I have to say that I have no crystal ball so I don’t know that for a fact but the way I look at it. As long as there is one person that retains the knowledge of how to make gun powder, or effectively farm, work with electricity or combustion engines that technology won’t dissappear for long. NowI don’t think 30 days after we will be back to satellite tv but I think that there will be the basics available in time. I would like to think that we get shot back to 1800’s. I don’t think we will be going back to BC times. Thats just my thoughts.

            • understanding reloading and being set up for it, will bring you at least 4X or more a head of the game.
              its also a prep item..because it can also provide food and security. and a bartable skill

            • @Jasoncookies:

              You will also need primers – lots of primers. Brass can only be re-used so many times by a typical reloader (pros can stretch it out about 2-3x as many).

              @Saddle Up:

              You can make gunpowder from scratch if you know how, but the traditional sulfur/charcoal/saltpeter recipe won’t work in modern smokeless powder firearms (which is why I mentioned the musket).

              @ All:

              There is also the bugaboo of parts wearing out. For example, an M1911 .45 Auto will eat spring bushings, the barrel will wear out after around 4,000-6,000 rounds, and magazine springs will eventually wear out. In other guns, plastic parts will get brittle, they will break, and anything with rifling will eventually wear out after hard use.

              I’m not saying to cast aside guns. I am saying that you’d damned well better have the skills in other types of weaponry as well. A complete collapse of society will push a lot of technologies into the mists of ignorance for decades, if not centuries.

              For example, the Romans screwed around with concrete and used it like it was no big deal. It took from the sack of Rome by the Huns until the late 19th century before anyone figured out how the hell concrete was even made. Mechanical Navigation Calculators? The Greeks and even Romans had them (Google for “Antikythera”) It wasn’t until the 18th century before anything approaching the same complexity was made.

              Not all technologies were lost for so long, but tell me – how long do you think it would take before someone could cook up a nitrocellulose-based gunpowder? How long would it take to regain machining methods that can accurately measure (and machine) down to the 0.001″ tolerances that gunsmithing (and accuracy!) requires? Next up would be the metallurgy required to make a receiver that can handle the 40,000+ lb/sq.in pressures that a typical modern receiver can handle?

              I have no doubt that the human spirit and capacity for cleverness is unmatched among all living creatures – but it’s gonna take a lot of time to regain a lot of it, yanno?

            • OQ: I understand completely what you are saying and agree that there will be a delay in how long technology comes back, some things may never come back.
              I think someone up higher here was talking about only needing one shotgun. Your examples is a good reason to own a few anyway. And you are right, I own a few 45acp handguns. Nice and fun to shoot but many many moving parts on them. For me personally it will be the simplicity of single actions. Can they break and wear out? Absolutely but I have much more confidence in something that has been around since before my grandfather was born.
              And you are right about consumables. Primers, brass, new powders.
              I think that a few people will find out the hard way how much maintainance an AR takes after firing a quick 1000 rounds in a short fight not to mention the amount of ammo they had stashed will quickly become depleted.
              If I have to revert to a bow on the great plains I will have many nights going hungry.

          • What makes you think it will be any different anywhere else? Just cause the law abiding population doesn’t own guns in Europe doesn’t mean their wont be armed looters. Guns can be made, stolen, or taken off of dead feds. Desperate looters and armed gangs will be a worldwide problem, not just in America

            • Personally, I wouldn’t mind Gilligan’s Island, it would be better than the 1800’s because at least you have the Professor to invent stuff. 😉

            • Then why could the Prof. not fix a boat? I am jesting of course. Yes I know it was a sitcom. Our economy is more than a boat.

      11. Let’s say the Eurozone drags the global economy into another 2008-like crash…

        The one thing that U.S. has going for it, is that regardless of what preppers think about the USD, most of the world views it as a safe haven currency. So….even if the Eurozone were to completely break up (worst case scenario) and shrink by 10% in 2 years as some folks forecast, the dollar would not crash. In fact, much of the world’s cash reserves would flood into USD/GBP/YEN/CHF. Global equities would fall, sure….but U.S. bond yields would too. That means our debt would be even cheaper than it is now (not necessarily good for controlling gov’t spending). So if you’re exporting tractors to Europe, or if you’re watching your 401k hoping to retire in a few years, you’re gonna be hurting, but if you’re the average Joe Blow American somewhere in mid-life, I don’t think you’ll be AS affected as it might first seem (since there would also be amazing, as with 2008, investment opportunities to scoop up equities on the bottom to add to retirement portfolios). Might everything be as bad as 2008? Probably. Worse? Maybe. But were widespread riots in 2008 in the wake of the bank collapses?

        Somebody correct me if I’m wrong here. I’m not saying that folks shouldn’t “prepare,” I’m just saying that even the “worst case scenario” forecasts don’t necessarily spell some kind of gov’t breakdown and panic stateside.

        • Those are good points Dan. The only thing I could add to that is there are $700 TRILLION Derivatives out there. Someone will eventually want that paid. The US is in severe debt!!! We’ll have ourselves a nice stock crash this year or next.

          When Soros says Europe will crash in the next 3 months, I believe him. He didn’t make his billions being stupid.

          • soccer mom: I coulnd’t have said it better; the derivities mkt is a disaster, and a collapse is right around the corner

            • laura m: Please explain why the derivatives market is a “disaster” and specify the events that will trigger the “collapse” that is “right around the corner”.

              I am sure We could all benefit from your insight into the financial markets and derivatives in particular.


            • Stick to soccer? Very nice. Glad we can have an intellegent conversation. DK, I differ in my views than you. I think all that debt is a disasterous choice for me as a person and for our country. There are so many explanations I wouldn’t even know where to start in my explanation. I also VERY much disagree with your thoughts on metals. Personally, I think food and bullets are WAY more important than metals (being self sustaining). We think different things are going to happen, which means different ways of preparing. Ever read Patriots? I am expecting a very similar crash, which is rooted in DEBT!!! I feel it’s just a matter of time. IMHO This $700 Trillion in Dervative debt will destroy the dollar and cause a collapse.

              But reading everyone’s comments, it seems that most people understand debt is killing the US dollar. Just because I think all this debt could lead to an economic collapse and you don’t, shouldn’t lead to sarcasm and criticism. Well, unless you can’t take someone elses opinion, and I don’t mind you questioning my views, just the way you did it; dripping in sarcasm and scorn.

              I also think that when Europe economically collapses in the next few months, it’ll cascade to the US; hence what happened during the Great Depression. We didn’t start the GD, Europe did, bc socialism doesn’t work IMHO.

              I also think the collapse will be tied to a Black Swan. Probably something else we differ on.

              But, rest assured, I am prepped and ready for whatever disaster comes my way!

            • PSM: If you want to be concerned about debt, be concerned about the debt on commercial real estate in Europe.

              That is your black swan.

              WE already know what happens to Europe. A leader for the Euro Zone emerges from a small nation, and three of the original ten nations exit.

              Which three?

              Greece obviously, the other two are conjecture. It could be Portugal and Spain, or it could include the UK as it moves closer and casts it lot with the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

              How long does it take? Probably years. How long has it been?

            • Orwellian: I have summarized derivatives several times over the past few months for the people here. Those summaries are in the archives.

              Everyone is entitled to their opinion, which should be based upon facts. The interpretation of the facts is what separates analysis from gossip.

              Anyone who makes a ridiculous statement without supporting that statement with their reasoning should be ridiculed. They deserve it.

              Anything less than that is akin to shouting “Fire!” in a theater when there is no fire.

          • Paid?? I listened to a clip(forgot who) suggesting it be purged!!!
            Yep–and just forget it and watch the vultures more closely NEXT time>..what’s wrong with this picture??

          • Soros may be the embodiment of all that is evil, but when he says something like this you had better listen. In fact, I wouldn’t put it past him to be planning to take down the European economy in order to try and instill his own sense of order and justice into the world. He is a very dangerous man and hasn’t been called an economic war criminal for nothing.

            • Winston,

              I found this interesting.

              “A fund controlled by George Soros, the billionaire hedge-fund manager, owns 23.4 percent of South American farmland venture. Some estimate the price of food to double or triple withing the next two to three years.”

              Start growing, canning, storing and preparing for a food shortage, Mr. Soros is.

            • Winston,

              I forgot to add that you are right, he is a very dangerous man. He is also a vile opportunist.

          • Prepared Soccer Mom: Please explain to US what derivatives are, how they work, and when they would be paid back if there is no “Crash”?

            Or conversely, what specifically would trigger a run on derivatives that would spark a “Crash” and destroy the economy?


            • DK: I think we are giong to run out of spots for this so answer below if you want. but I have a question for you.
              Does the amount of leverage used worry you at all?
              That concerns me when I hear brokerages are leveraged 100-1.
              The other thing that worries me is brokerages using investors money for brokerage investments.

            • DK…your sarcasm is duly noted…and doesn’t show you in the best light..just saying!

            • Saddle Up; Yes the amount of leverage by banking institutions disturbs me because investment banking and retail banking need to be separated again.

              Until it is the financial system is at risk.

              The leverage of brokerages does not disturb me as someone should be allowed to bet the farm if they want, as long as they are using their own money and cannot touch depositor accounts.

              The language in the brokerage agreements need to be regulated and uniform to prohibit the use of depositor funds across the board. It is not.

              Until it is depositor funds are at risk.

              Unless of course you have your money in a brokerage account at Deutche Bank; and up to One Billion Dollars per currency trading account.

              So you know that is where I keep my chump change. 🙂

            • SmokyMtnLady: If a poster makes a comment they should be able to support and defend their statement and reveal their reasoning for it; whether it is a man or a woman.

              I am an equal opportunity poster.

              That you rushed to support these women who have not provided any basis for their statement, does not speak well of you either.

              Why don’t YOU explain their comment and edify US all, instead of making this a sexual issue? 🙂

            • Okay I am kind of confused. Wasn’t MF Global using money from investors accounts for brokerages leveraged accounts?
              I agree that in retail banking that money needs to be protected.
              And I agree if I want to go all in on slv options I should be able to. I was under the impression that brokerages were using money from accounts almost as collateral for the brokerages investments.

            • Saddle Up: My reading of the story(s) indicated that MF Global had a legal right to use account holders money under certain circumstances, including the circumstances that took the company down.

              Which just goes to show that it pays to read the fine print, and use an institution like Deutch Bank.

            • DK

              I have read many of your posts regarding financial issues, in many I can see what you are saying, but I will admit some are over my head. I have learned a good bit from you and others here regarding the global economy and although I know this is a pressing issue right now, and that a complete failure of the system could result in very desperate times, I have no idea what I should be looking for, what the ultimate trigger point for the economy may be.

              The ECB and IMF say no more bailouts and then I see Spainish banks are getting 40 bn in aid.
              The UK has worse figures than most but retains its rating, how and why is beyond me
              Soros jumping up and down rings bells. He did break the banks here in the 80’s

              I could go on, but the list would be too long. How do these things connect? Do they connect?

              Can you recommend somewhere I can read up on all this in terms I will understand? I have looked around, but I will be honest, most sites are way above my level of understanding. Zero hedge is good for news, but as soon as it gets heavy I lose what they are talking about.

              Take care

            • Engage, my peeps. USA as we know it is moving toward a badly needed reset. It will not turn out for the better in all ways, if any. Arrogant government bastards usually do not go quietly. This applies to all levels, i.e. the “draconian” changes in WI. Spoiled whiners. Got to keep in mind that a school teacher basically works part-time, off all summer, every BS holiday, sick days out the ying-yang, etc. Most public employees couldn’t be dragged out of the public sector with a monster truck.

            • If you want to know then you can watch the two part “frontline” expose on them including interviews with the women who invented derivatives. It is probably on Youtube by now.

              Do you own homework as it is out there to be found quite easily.
              The U.S. dollar is failing now. Right now nations are required to trade in it due to the petrodollar but that is failing as more nations trade directly to each other in gold or their own currencies. Japan, China, russia, Iran, Brazil etc. The dollar is failing right now.

            • DK ~ It’s not a gender issue. (In fact YOU are the first person to mention gender in this conversation.)

              You know I respect your opinions, but I’ll be blunt. The issue here is smugness. It is your unbearable smugness when anyone else ventures an opinion about finance. While we might not all have YOUR keen grasp on the subject, it doesn’t mean our opinions are invalid.

              By calling out the two people you did to explain their statements, you were basically trying to embarrass them and scorn their opinions.

              Didn’t anyone ever tell you that you catch more flies with honey? If you disagree with the statement that the “derivative situation” is a mess, then state that. You don’t need to attempt to humiliate people to get your point across. You’re honestly just trying to pick a fight.

              People listen when you talk because you know your subject matter. People tune out when you behave like an ungentlemanly pompous know-it-all.

              And for the record, with my ever-so-limited understanding of the great world of finance, I think the derivatives shell game is a mess too.


            • SML, no disrespect but I’d be, like DK, interested on her take of derivatives.

            • DK, I’ve seen you on here a few times and don’t have problems with your comments. This question is pretty stupid considering every alternative news has talked about derivatives. You’re saying that noone should be worried about $700 trillion in debt? Really? I would suggest you read more news and keep up with what’s going on.

            • Burt: There are links, including the Front Line videos at SHTF Economics. There are also financial educational links available at CNBC and others that you can find there too.

              Daisy: Actually I thought my comment to the ladies was pretty tame. I just asked them to justify their opinion. Whats wrong with that?

              Kisses, baby girl! 🙂

            • Soccer Mom: The question isn’t stupid at all. If you knew what you were talking talking about, even a little bit, you could answer the questions I posed to you. You don’t. You can’t.

              Read something beside the Economic Collapse blog or stick to soccer. 🙂

            • DK….”THE FINE PRINT” I agree this is a HUGE problem and one of the reasons that we don’t see many prosecutions. I believe that if the fine print were read and understood by the average person they would not enter into many of these agreements. This includes many of those ARM mortgages and even Mutual Funds. When there is a gigantic difference in the words “shall” and “may” in legal documents most laymen will get an entirely different take on the terms and use. You almost need a lawyer to decipher some of them.This is done on purpose to fleece the common man. Hang the bankers.BTW,I inferred that you thought leverage was a sound monetary tool? Are you qualifying that now?

            • JRS: Yes I believe leverage is a useful financial tool if judiciously used by individuals or corporations; but if they live by the sword they should understand that they can die by the sword.

              Leverage cuts both ways.

            • DK, Reading between the lines of your post, I gather that you already understand the nature of “derivatives.” Well, I have only a vague idea of the concept. Instead of baiting Soccer Mom, why don’t you just explain it to all of us and avoid the sarcasm?? Perhaps we could keep the conversation congenial, on topic, educational, and on topic?

          • how do you repay 700 trillion dollars? its impossible. only one man has the money, his name , evelyn derothschild. and highest estimates of his wealth is about 500 trillion. lets get serious. no one is getting paid back.

          • when big names like Soros with insider connections says, Europe will fail…then its being designed to happen or it’s beyond repair, hence restoration requires hitting the “reset” switch. Many powerful, well connected, high profile people are prepping…bush jr has 80K acres in S.A. James Cameron purchased large New Zealand land tracts…Trump is prepping…these guys have insider knowledge…water purification and iodine tabs, plus ammo…hot on my list

        • The dollar is losing its safe haven status. It’s only a matter of time before the dollar loses its status as the world’s reserve currency. Some big countries are making agreements to trade in their own currencies. Like the BRICS: Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. China also has agreements with Russia, Africa, and the UAE. India is buying oil from Iran using gold. Each additional agreement is like another nail in the coffin of the US dollar. Once the world dumps the dollar it will lose 90% of its value. America will become a third world country very quickly.

          • Barn Cat: You should dump the dollar now and never use it again to avoid the “calamity” that is sure to befall the dollar.

            The dollar is going to go up folks and that is not good news for US. But hey! Dump your dollars! Use metal coins instead for all of your transactions! 🙂

            • IMO, after the europeans flee the Euro and flock to the dollar for a safe haven,’they’ will then collapse the dollar. Then all the eggs will be in one basket. Simple.Brilliant.Diabolical.

            • I guess you don’t understand that paper money has no intrinsic value. Go ahead, invest in dollars. See how that works for you. While you’re at it, buy some tickets for the Titanic. Every seat is currently available, by the way. Sure, the Titanic is on the bottom of the ocean but it’s getting better. Just like the economy.

            • barn cat: Only food, shelter, sex and weapons have “intrinsic value”. Everything else has value that is ascribed to it by people; including gold and silver.

              It is just that gold and silver have been valued for sooooo long, (to buy food, shelter, sex, and weapons) that some people think it has “intrinsic value”.

        • Dan, that reminds of a saying from a good friend of mine:
          “People are always preparing for the wrong disaster.”

          • Blue

            EXACTLY. There is no way to know what’s coming. On a personal level I, like most believe an economic crash is just around the corner, but the natural world is also on my radar, mother nature kicking off will make everything else pale into insignificance.

            Take care

            • Actually, we know what’s coming. It’s a complete economic collapse. That has a 100% certainty. We can argue about whether we make it another 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, or 24 months but all the fundamentals are against the euro and against the dollar.

            • Barn Cat: Economic collapse is not a certainty; but it also depends upon how one defines “economic collapse”.

              For many, even in the USA, “collapse” has already occurred. For many it never will.

              If a total “meltdown” were to occur it would be a deliberate act to institute One World Government. 30,000 drones will not be airborne before 2020 to enforce that takeover.

              Engage your employees my peeps or be enslaved by them!

        • Dan, unlike in 2008-09, where the Fed flooded the market with liquidity in order to stall the crash, and resulted in the subsequent gain in the equity markets, I don’t think that plan will work a second time. Rather than me trying to explain the problems and why the US dollar is actually not the safe haven you think, i’d suggest you visit jsmineset.com. Mr. Sinclair routinely lays out why and economic collapse will result in simultaneous hyper inflation, basically, people will dump US dollars as it loses its reserve currency status. The BRICS are forming their own bank and currency to settle trades in so they they don’t have to rely on the US dollar, and China and Japan are already settling trades in their own currencies. As for deriviates, the Int’l swaps & derivatives assoc. deems when a contract has to be paid out on. There are 700T of them out there, but many are offsetting positions held by the same party, so not sure the overall net amount. as seen in Greece, the ISDA said that losing 70% of the face value of a bond didn’t result in the triggering of a credit event where the contract had to be paid out on. They are being sued as a result. Reason for the ruling, it would result in a cascade of bank failures, as the banks are the ones that issued all these contracts, with little to no capital to back them up, much like AIG back in 2008. One credit event could literally take down the whole system, resulting in a flood of dollars back into the US as people dump them because our banking system implodes, result, hyper inflation. Thats my best try at explaining the theory, research for yourself. Might also try Shadow Government Stats for additional info.

          • rjdoyle….I’m kinda on the flip side of the coin. I think, with the eurozone imploding, those investors will be running for the safety of the dollar. Everybody thinks the dollar will be dropped, but it is still the reserve currency and the most used currency in the world. Unfortunately, when all those buyers of dollars come into the market, I think this will give the DC corp a reason to think they can jack up their spending again. This is what worries me. It won’t end well, but it won’t end for a while.

            • and back and forth we will go from one end of the ship to the other (dollar euro dollar euro) the problem is , when we find out there is many holes in boht ends of the ship and its taking on more water by the second. get the hell out of fiat. let it fall. good riddance.

            • Reminds me of the movie Titanic. When the first half sank, the other half was thrust into the air . . . temporarily. I wonder if some of them looked down upon those drowning and thought ‘poor bastards.’

            • The dollar will only be safer for a little while. It’s like having a fire burning in your kitchen. Yes, an upstairs bedroom is literally safer when the kitchen is in flames but only for a very short time. The dollar will be dead not long after the euro.

        • the thing youre missing is the dollar will not be the world reserve currency much longer, which means no printing to keep afloat. debt will have to be repaid. currently at 0% interest we pay 500 billion a year on 16 trillion in debt? china stops using the dollar for oil at the end of this month is it? the sanctions on iran has basically back fired and in return alot of countries are doing deals WITHOUT THE U.S. DOLLAR. japan and china are already trading in their own currencies. come on people this info is out there. we live in the information age. how is this not known?

      12. Why is it when I try to explain to people what is going on in the world, which will eventually happen to us in the U.S., I get the “DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS” look. Oh, I forgot, Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I have almost gotten to the point of giving up on most everyone, and concentrate on the few who will listen, and help all of us prep.
        These few will be the ones who will be with me guarding and producing things needed to help all those inside the closed circle of friends that are like minded. Even deer will hang together, since multiple eyes are better than one set. As a long time deer hunter, it is harder to harvest deer when in a group, where as a single deer is easier to take down. Amazing that even “dumb” animals have more sense that some humans, at least the ones I know. My “supervisor” at work even told me that that the collapse will never happen, and I wanted to tell her that it does not matter what she thinks, only what will only happen in time.
        I just bought some “CCI .22 Quiet” shells to see if they were quiet. At 6 cents per shell, I figured they were what they advertised. How wrong they were. I saw no difference. Everyone be warned that lots of products will come out to make like it is something is special for the preppers, and cannot become the claim they claim.
        At 710 FEET PER SECOND, and not breaking the sound barrier, I figured they were worth a try.
        But if all of us warn others of such things, maybe we can concentrate of products that do what they claim.

        If you are not prepping, you are just inepting…

        • I’ve heard that a 2 liter soda bottle works for a few 22 rounds. Just heard, that’s all.

        • They are virtually silent with a suppressor! Any 22 whose speed, (FPS), is under the sound barrier is if you have a suppressor. If you don’t, no bullet is quiet! I would suggest more firearms training!

          • Then why do they advertise “Quiet”?
            I post here for the good of us preppers, and false advertisement will get each of us to buy thier product. I know eppe was just warning us of what not to buy. I myself have been into guns for 45+ years, do you think we have not heard of silencers before? And as for training, it sounds like you know everything there is to know on firearms. My blowgun is silent, and at 50 feet is deadly, now that is silent. As for the 2 liter bottle comment, it works a few rounds but aiming it is not easy. NO DISRESPECT, but I try to help people here on this site, not degrade them with suggestions that you need this or that. CCI made a gas powered .22 that had as much sound as a pellet gun, just it was a short not a long. Mickey, I respect your comment, just try to be respectful of others opinion. We are all here in the same boat, which is sinking fast, and the more knowledge we can impart on other preppers, the better.

            • One of the biggest misnomers is the word/term “silencer” in firearms speak. They are “supressors” and REDUCE the noise level only. If you want the quietest muzzle report you can get, use a supressor along with subsonic ammo.

            • BTW, one of my favorite rounds that I use for garden invaders(rabbits) is CCI CB caps. Ive got an older Rem .22 pump that I use. The only thing is you got to use a little holdover and be within 60 ft to be effective but the report is less than a pellet gun.

            • A suppressor, sound suppressor, sound moderator, or silencer, is a device attached to or part of the barrel of a firearm which reduces the amount of noise and usually also the amount of muzzle flash generated by firing the weapon. Suppressors can be used both with gunpowder-based weapons and with compressed air weapons.


            • I wouldn’t have thought my comment was disrespecting anybody. I was trying to be helpful. I have shot the so called quiet 710 FPS CCI. It is so underpowered it won’t even cycle my Ruger Mk 2 pistol. If you want a quiet pistol, you need a suppressor. They are legal in most states, if you jump thru enough hoops. It is a pleasure to be able to shoot without hearing protection.

              As for knowing everything, of course I don’t. However I am an Appleseed instructor, as well as a graduate or distinguished graduate of multiple firearms classes at Frontsight. I am quite competent, thank you kindly. Best to all from a very long time reader!

        • Thanks, Mickey, we are all in this for the long haul, and I appreciate the honesty in your post. I’m just trying to warn all of us preppers to what is out there, and to be aware of products that do not do what they claim. I am sure we could have a few beers and be best of friends. No hard feelings? I too am just a simple man trying to get thru the difficult times, like most of us preppers.

      13. The neighborhood I live in won’t last 10 minutes. A lot of big shots who don’t even cut their own grass. One high falootin lawyer needed me to climb a ladder because he was too scared. I won’t have any trouble with them though. They are pathetic.

        • lol king krazy. sounds like a dream. i would have so much fun turning all of those pansies away !

      14. from a future time and in someone elses dream
        (don’t remember the source, it’s the content that matters)

        government spokesperson
        “You’re dollar is now worthless and all property lines have been dissolved”

        Prep for eternity

      15. It has been said before, the imminent crash is going to make 2008 look like a picnic in the park.

      16. With the news of what is happening in Greece, we are truly blessed to have this foresight to learn from.

        A pity many in the US will not seek out or listen to what is happening elsewhere in the world. They are too busy expecting Obama to pay their mortgage and fill their car’s tank up.

        • Greece was being talked about by a diverse group of patrons at the local pizza shop yesterday… let’s not count the American sheeple out just yet.

      17. Greetings Everybody!
        Greece is being bled so TPTB can continue to enjoy a lavish hedonistic way of life.Since the bankers “paid for the crooks in office”,they’re expecting (and getting) the lions share of the so-called loan $$$.Meanwhile,the croks in office are selling all that they can to non-greeks(read Chinese and German corporations)to keep getting their pay.Manos made mention of this fact.These Godless,pitiless and soley profit-centered people would drive the common people into a Chinese-sweat-shop slavery existence,if they can.And apparently are hard at work at it.Because the UBER-RICH and their minions don’t give a Damn who runs the prison,any form of Stalinist-Fascist control government would do nicely(technocrats?I.E. stooges for the TPTB).So long as they’re still enjoying the cruise,who care who gets thrown overboard!I read in M.J. about the state of the world’s seas,and it ain’t purty(Yes I know,some here consider M.J. a sissy-lib. front for the globalists,but I don’t listen to the rhetoric,just seek facts anywhere I can find them!)
        Things may just advance beyond what even TPTB can plan for.I suggest you read the article on the Oceans and decide for your self.I suspect the verse “they will be throwing their PMs into the street(as worthless)” may be coming sooner than later.In my humble opinion,being hungry but having faith in God to see you thru will make things easier than an empty-non belief.We’ll just have to see how truly awful this international collapse becomes.
        Just my thoughts,I’m sure there are others….
        All the Best,

        • For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul.

      18. this weekend spanish bank are going to request up to 125 billion. the eu is going down, how fast? who knows, how will it affect us in the usa ? dont know. but i’ve got my preps in order so whatever happens, happens.

      19. The most sane and comprehensive work on the why of the coming collapse and how to survive it is being done by John Micheal Greer over here:


        His latest essay, Collapse now and avoid the rush, is well worth the read. Dimirty Orlof has advise that dovetails perfectly. Actually everything on that site is worth reading, but there is a huge amount there.

        They both point out that collapsing your lifestyle voluntarily gives you the best hope of surviving a post collapse world.

        • Eagle Eye,

          I think John Michael Greer is lacking knowledge when he says, “No other energy source available to our species combines the high net energy, high concentration, and great abundance that a replacement for fossil fuel would need.”

          Now here is a suppressed technology ->
          water engine
          Inventor, by Holy Spirit, more thorough presentation of water engine and parts.

          Japanese dihydrogen oxide powered car

          Unrelated water powersupply

          Also, the Apollo moon missions power source is also water based.

          Oil will still be used to make products like plastics and support some of the existing technologies before conversions can be made. It would take some time.

          First priority is to get rid of the soul sucking vampires and their political cronies who are suppressing these important technologies. Restore the Constitutional Republic!

          The Lord is Righteous.
          Standing by in Texas.

          • Ah, the ecotechnic future. Yawns, Pours another glass of shine and warms feet in front of fire after another evening culling the protien source that are nearing plague proportions in my neck of the woods. The big risk with technologies may well be that society is too busy looking for something to eat to worry about it. The other problem is that once people get used to staying home and growing their own food and entertainment they may decide that an energy driven banker rewarding slave like existance is really a complete waste of time and effort.

            • These are not off the wall crazy ideas. If you have looked at the links, and I did read yours, you will see that these are working models. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

            • I love the way you think Eagle Eye

          • Those are off-the-wall ideas. The quote was right. Nothing has the stored energy of gasoline.

        • Orlov also thinks USSR was better prepared in every way than USA. They had lazy slackers just like USA. Cmmunism manufacturs slackers. One advantage they had is that their slackers never had much to begin with, making the transisition easier. USA has the advantage of mostly private utilities. If you can pay for it, power stays on. Government workers by and large don’t care because they are almost impossible to fire and their companies don’t have to turn a profit. USSR did have many advantages, like less “diversity”.

        • eagle, precisely what ive been doing my whole life.

          • Congrats. I am so envious, but getting closer to that reality every day.

      20. Corruption has been going on since time began. Only those that have seen it have been prepared on an ongoing basis. If you are counting on anyone or anything to save you and yours, wake up! This is nothing new, just on a grander scale. Stay safe, alert and prepared.

      21. Use common sense in preparing. I stick to the K.I.S.S. method. As for as everything should be like it was said think balance. you would be very wise to put back barter stuff, one thing for sure is salt a must have, 22lr and 12 ga ammo etc. you know. Now the onething is water you must have water period. So water, shelter, food. Learn the old ways of treating medical emergeny’s. If at all possible stay in place, on the road without a place to go is no good. while you can buy up all the hierloom seeds you can find, and save them back. Anyway just keep it basic.
        Remember to live free

        • I’m guaranteeing my freedom and life by packing 24/7 from here on out. Gun are like women, they are sexy and make you feel good, just without the back talk.

          • I am with you I pack 24/7. Hey if you look like food you will be eaten. Look a 22 is better than nothing. 45’s or 357’s is what me and grandma pack. What ever strike’s our fancy, but the same for ammo purposes. Hee Hee!!

            Live Free or die Standing

      22. Im sorry, i am a God fearing simple man, but i (know i really shouldnt) want george soros, dead.
        Just on the crimes he committed during WWII.
        He doesnt deserve to breath anymore. I really dont understand why he is allowed to do what he does, everyone knows he has been responsible for tremendous crimes against entire countries. Seems like some jihadi would get ahold of at least this one jew. And blow his fucking body into a mlion little pieces. Ok im done ranting, please dont preach to me, i know my feelings are wrong, and evil, but it had to be said.

        • Ohevi, Soros (made up palidrone name)is an evil atheist, he was a major reason Obama is president. And look where we are now. Yes, a 5 cent piece of lead would fix that problem, just there are more evil ones out there to take his place.
          I am amazed that we let the dumb people of the U.S. VOTE IN THE DUMBEST of the dumb. I suggest that we take the genius people and let them place the smartest humans in charge, fix this country, if it can, and become the superpower we once were.

          • Me, you have fallen for the “dumb” trick. The dumb and incompetence is a cover.

            One moment they’ll claim they can’t balance the budget or properly handle mail delivery or disaster relief for a hurricane. The next day they’ll claim they can see every word we type on a screen or scan every word we say into the telephone.

            Uh, which is it? They make you think their super smart when they want you to then super dumb when they need an excuse.

            The fact is just that, they’re competent when they want to be, to a point. But, they often fail when they try sometimes.

            Either way you look at it, government steals more, kills more, defrauds more, lies more, poisons more and destroys more than anything else on the planet, natural or man made. Government, in and of itself, is *THE* *MOST* *DANGEROUS* creation of man. With that, I submit that government is therefore evil in all its forms and mostly unnecessary. It may actually be that government is not actually evil but is like an attractant to evil and, as such, then becomes evil. In its largeness, is an evil force to destroy lives, civilizations and cultures. Best keep it small so we can keep it bottled up.

            I am not “anti-government”. I am “appropriate government”. What we have here in the uSA is wholly and totally inappropriate and consists evil men, such as psychopathic Soros and Obama, that have agendas that have nothing to do with leading people to safety, prosperity or success.

            Ron Paul 2012 – Because we need at least one good voice at the top to start the ball rolling.

            • NR;
              I agree with you, but I have not fallen for the dumb gig, what I am saying is the population has fallen for the dumbness and are like lemmings racing for the sea. I realize that our Govt. is the problem, and a purging needs to happen. I agree RP should be president, he seems to be the only one who has any common sense out of all of the lot. But as I said earlier, we need smart geniuses to run this country not id10ts. The problem is we let anyone vote, hence look who is in office. Do you think a grandmother at age 32, with 6 kids and 12 grandchildren should have a voice in how to run this country? They vote to make sure they get that check each month. What we need to do is cut out these useless id10ts, stop paying them for having kids, but soon they will be starved out of the game. It has taken 40+ years to get in this situation, and they should perish asap. Since they by $400 shoes and holey pants with OUR tax money, I would cut them off in a second. How long would they survive? 3 weeks maybe? Heck, most can barely speak English, much less hold a intelligent conversation.
              The Bible quotes “My people perish for lack of knowledge”.

            • I still think RP may be installed after the MASS ARRESTS, which will of course be conducted in a constitutionally legitimate manner. The little side show with his son is just that, a side show.

            • NR,

              I almost agree with you, the first part at least… It is the most truth anyone could possibly utter in their lifetime.
              “Either way you look at it, government steals more, kills more, defrauds more, lies more, poisons more and destroys more than anything else on the planet, natural or man made. Government, in and of itself, is *THE* *MOST* *DANGEROUS* creation of man. With that, I submit that government is therefore evil in all its forms and mostly unnecessary.”

              Now for the part that makes me wonder why you wrote the first one in the first place.
              “I am not “anti-government”. I am “appropriate government”.”
              A contradiction perhaps? All that aside, anyone can look at any history book and see that it never works for long, why cant we trust ourselves with… “ourselves”???

        • Get in line. So many people would like to see him die an agonizing death it’s ridiculous. Tickets to his execution would sell out in a flash.

      23. From this article It looks like we are all going back to the dark ages.
        I cant see any of this happening.
        Yes if an asteriod hit, then we have a problem or a major earthquake. but financial collapse causing these problems? Look at Iceland & they still have power, food & they are recovering from going bankrupt.

        • Yes, Iceland is, because they did things right. They arrested bankers and politicians, and forgave all mortgages. There are ways to make all of this be healed. It’s seems a matter of knowledge and fortitude when it comes to the US folks, both of which are lacking for the majority.

          • thats precisely what im saying, arrest these thugs and eliminate all existing debt. its the only answer.not perfect but the best we can do.

            • A tiny minority will rescue the majority. I won’t even blink if I wake up tomorrow and see Obama, the Bushes, the Clintons, the Fed board, and 9/10th of Congress and the Senate being perp walked in chains in front of the cameras. It is the duty of anyone and everyone who swears to protect and uphold the Constitution to make it so. The moment to strike is this summer, long before the election.

        • I visited Iceland on vacation in April and they did indeed do things right. They also have quite a different scenario in place than the rest of the world. Iceland’s economy is no where near the size of the major economies of the world. When they chose to default and reset, they put the screws to the bankers instead of the people. This created a bad relationship with some parts of Europe and some countries even documented that by refusing to pay their debt it was an act of war. Iceland basically said “suck it”.

          Icelanders also have a few things going for them that are lost in places like the US. They have geothermal power for the majority of the country. It not only provides endless power to the country but heat in the wintertime as well. In fact many Icelanders leave windows open and heat on because there’s now shortage of it. (Every place we stayed had their windows open and the heat cranked up.) Compare that to the US where winter heating bills are through the roof to heat our McMansions.

          Most Icelanders outside of Reykjavik are farmers or fishermen and can produce food to be self sufficient. The sparseness of the population outside the city forces many people to be natural preppers. Nearly everyone in rural areas owned a pull-behind trailer that they take to the city once a month to stock up.

          When the crash hit, most people I talked to said, “we just paid attention to the news and went about our business until the government fixed it.” THAT is the difference between Iceland and the US. Their government isn’t out to control them, but is still (mostly) there to do things right.

          • The “going for them” stuff matters not. When Obama, Brenanke, and 9/10ths of Congress and the Senate are arrested, gold-backed treasury notes return, the courts are douched, and the traitors are electrocuted, America will revert back to it’s former glory overnight.

            • While I like your optimism, I’m more of a realist. We’re on this roller coaster now and Brenanke is the guy in the control booth hitting buttons. Problem is that Obama’s decree to inspect the roller coaster for safety was really just some maintenance guys slapping duct tape on places they thought were problems.

              I think all of the people you mentioned will be long gone before any justice is even thought about for them.

        • Iceland never had hyperinflation. The rulers didn’t destroy the currency like the Fed is destroying the dollar. Check this out:


          We don’t live on farms anymore. When a loaf of bread sells for $20 because the dollar has lost 90% of its value, millions will starve in America.

          • And the U.S. military is just going to sit idle during this mass starvation of their families and neighbors? Please get real… when push comes to shove, the people with the guns are in charge. The MASS ARRESTS are coming!

        • the question, too many fakecons, is when? i agree and i too wont be shocked. but we need action now.

      24. been running the food dehydrator almost non stop and giving intensive care to three small gardens…obama is finally being put on alert to the fact that we the people aint buying his shit-eating lies on the economy and world affairs any longer.. i believe he and his cronies are beginning to panic just a little bit these days.

        • I just bought a dehydrator, along with a vacuum sealing system. Any suggestions on what does best in one vs the other?

          • RJDoyle, they are completely different machines. One will preserve foods by drying them, the other one will only protect foods when sealed. While both are good machines (and we have both), they require electricity to power them.

            While you’re learning how to operate these machines, learn how to also do without them and dry foods naturally through solar heat. And food storage can be found w/ glass jars and bottles, plastic jars and bottles, and food-grade buckets w/ lids.

            With dehydrating, some foods can be prepared quickly for dehydration to take place. Other foods require blanching. Get yourself a short-list for those foods and then it’s mostly hands-on experience and knowing when the foods are adequately dehydrated for storage.

            We store our dehydrated foods in glass jars, not plastic jars or bags.

          • Zoltanne is right—I did this for lots of dry goods…a granny taught it on a prepper site.

            Fill canning jars with pancake mix, flour, cornmeal, etc.;
            without a lid, bake on a cookie sheet for about 2 hours on 250*;
            Remove, clean rims, apply lids and rings.
            Will seal in a few minutes.
            This process is better than buckets…it lasts years, instead of months.
            Simple to do.

            • @ Jayjay

              Best tip I’ve read in months!

              Tell me, does this method work for: A.Rice B.Quick Grits C.Dried Beans D.Oats E. Barley?

              Thanking you in advance.

          • without electricity neither

        • Yeah… the MASS ARREST are coming. Sure as the sun will cross the sky, they are coming.

      25. I think that there will be a large percentage of Americans who will wait for those magic words: I’m from the government and I’m here to help you! That’s their safety net and nothing will convince them otherwise. Even with the growing unrest in Greece, I have to think the Greeks will be better behaved than we’ll see here. Betcha!

        • betcha not swift. greeks dont like being told no. at all.

      26. I have tried to send two messages and have gotten errors when I tried, so here goes again as each time I forgot what I first wrote. Maybe there is something wrong with my internet connection or something.

        I liked this article, it truly shows the agony that so many will face when the collapse begins for any number of reasons. I again and again see the collapse coming from so many different sources, even the geophysical world is chaotic, as this could just be cyclic that has happened before, it is still happeneing. The civilization is frail, a lot more prone to implode that the media and these so called “experts” in the government let on.

        I cannot emphasize how important it is to prepare right now and how essential it is that people that have not started to get going right now before it is too late. There is a problem though with some people that will tell you and make you think that they are on board with preparing and in reality are only seeking acceptance and approval. It is a real downer when you discover that someone you know actually has done very little or nothing and either exaggerated or utterly lied about prepping.

        I myself have had this happen in which a person or persons will “tell” you that they are preparing and that they were not. This can be added to the list above as being careful about people that you cannot trust and depend upon. Many times I have heard other express concern over whom you let into your survival circle or group because too many people are all talk. Becoming “too” involved into the community, with those that will turn on you is dangerous for your own survival. A sad reality with basic human nature with too many people nowadays. 🙁

        I think this is one of the bits of advice everyone should know: “that there are actually few people you can trust to be there for you after the collpase”. When you can actually find someone that will be there for you, that you can trust, that you can depend on, that you know will not turn against you and your survival group, be so grateful to know this true ally. “True” friends and family members that you know are on your side and “TRUST” are one of the most valuable resources in your preparation that you can have.

        Michael, again really good article. I am glad you liked the A to Z survival article, this like your article is meant to help as many people as possible. Everytime a new article is posted in regards to survival and making yourself more ready it does good for others. Everytime someone adds their idea in the comments section it helps others think. “Everyone” has good insight on many different issues, especially in their field and what they are good at, and are valuable to all of us. I hope others continue to add what they know and feel that it is indeed important.

        Thank you to everyone that spends their time to send their idea and ideas about preparation and survival, it does help all of us to learn as much as we can before time finally runs out.

      27. 12. A drone jammer would have been really nice to have.

        • @ Uncon South

          Is there a way to do that?

      28. 1. I have paid more than $40 for a pair of shoes in over ten years except for good field boots. So I’ve got extra cash to fill the pantry. Lot of rice and beans, can tomatoes, veggies and canned chicken and salmon.

        2. I’m in pretty good health and don’t rely on medication. I take a lot of supplements and have been stocking up on some of them. I’ve also been stocking up on raw honey. It’s still good even when it crystallizes and has too many medicinal benefits to mention. Also last week my local grocery store had 24oz bottles peroxide on sale for 99cents.

        3. Been living in rural ares for the last ten years. Lose pwoer all the time for several days. Yeah, it sucks, but I’ve learned to cook on fire and I’ve got a wood burner that I’m going to start learning to cook on.

        4. Got a Berkey. Also I have well and septic. No reliance on the municipal supply. Just a note: Flush out your hot water tank to get rid of the sludge on the bottom. In a pinch its a 40 – 50 gallon water storage tank.

        5. I Don’t use credit cards. I have one. I like my debit card, but I got some paper stashed. Plus a “small” silver hoard.

        6. I don’t live in the city and when the shtf, I don’t plan on going anywhere near one. But if I do, I’ll be well armed.

        7. I’ve been stocking up on things like soap, toothpaste and various other daily staples. I’ve got more than I’ll need for two or three years. Yep I’ll be bartering. A couple tips on negotiating: Never let them know how badly you want something. Let them make the first offer and be prepared to walk away no matter how bad you want it.

        8. I put my faith in Jesus Christ seven years ago. Nuff said.

        9. Currency losing value? No kidding. see no. 5.

        10. I’m not worried about whether or not the gov’t is gonna save me, I’m worried about them coming around and screw it up worse. My buddy had a saying, ‘Hi, I’m from the gov’t. I’m here to help.’ (yeah, right).

        I my not be 100% prepared as I would like to be, but I think I’m going to fair better than most. Besides, see no.8.

        Good luck everyone I hope it never gets that bad, but I’m not living in LaLa land either.

        • Who cares? Any body that reads this already is prepared or on the way to being there. You didn’t contribute any thing, by acting like your the shit or something. Keep it to yourself. At least give a word of advise and then shut the hell up.

      29. “Most people assume that they will always be able to run out to their local supermarket or to Wal-Mart and get all of the supplies they need.”


        “Sadly, most people simply do not understand just how dependent we are on the power grid.”


        “Sadly, most people don’t understand just how vulnerable our water system is. ”


        “Most people have become very accustomed to using either debit cards or credit cards for almost everything.”


        • Omegaman

          What do you want? Everyone to say except the great Omegaman after everything they say?

          Note the words…MOST PEOPLE nobody said all people.

          If you have something to say say it, it would be more entertaining than you just quoting other peoples posts.

          Oh, I forgot, you tried that with the Manos thing…didn’t quite work out for you did it? Nuff said.

        • Omegaman! Stop generalizing people! Not everybody said those things. Give me a break.

          No, really, do you want percentages? Would that make you feel better? Last time I checked when the word “most” is used it means greater than 50%. See below my estimates.

          “96.8% of the people assume that they will always be able to run out to their local supermarket or to Wal-Mart and get all of the supplies they need.”

          “Sadly, 99.9% of the people simply do not understand just how dependent we are on the power grid.”

          “Sadly, 99.64% of the people don’t understand just how vulnerable our water system is. ”

          “78% of the people have become very accustomed to using either debit cards or credit cards for almost everything.”

          I’d rather use “most” because, frankly, the percentage varies from place to place. In this city people never give any of these aforementioned problems a thought until they happen. Then, they panic. 51% could be considered most. I’m more comfortable with that because I know of NO PLACE I’VE EVER BEEN WHERE IT WOULD BE UNTRUE.

          So, get your panties out of a wad and understand common American English. Most means at least half and the last time I checked “everyone” would be much closer to the actual truth and far more accurate that “more than half”.

          You’re hypercritical comment makes you seem like an asshole, however, 98% of use are 65% sure that you’re not.


          • Thanks..Net Ranger.

          • Net

            Love you x

            Take care


        the russian SPETSNAZ are here on amerikan soil !!!

        *** you’ve all been “sold out” by your own fed state politicians to zionist fascist communism .

        *** and now foreign russian spetsnaz troops are being trained to take away your guns in colorado .

        @ ” a KGB agent walked up to him grabbing him by the collar and shook him as he screamed at him.

        English, you idiot, English.

        By the time he finished yelling at him we were out of range and I couldn’t tell what else was said but this was a platoon size unit of young man that seem to be very fit and I would not doubt that there are members of the Russian special forces. I have a little experience in spotting soldiers as I was in the Army as a military police officer for 10 years.

        Will return to the administration building I ran into someone I met after Hurricane Katrina and we began speaking as I congratulated him about his promotion “whose name and rank I will not divulge” he tried me to his office and we spoke for about 20 min. while our chief law enforcement officer was signing out the vehicles. The conversation turns in the past and present as he was surprised to see me in the uniform I was wearing and I asked him about the Russian troops. He started to stammer and he said what Russian troops? And my reply was the one I bumped into that study excuse me in Russian and his KGB handler who start raising hell with him. He broke in to remind me that KGB no longer exist, on my reply was that, yes to KGB’s gone, but they’re using another name now and they are still in business. He acknowledged that there were Russian troops on the base by head nod and asked him are they training with the 10th Mountain division again all I had for an answer was a head nod, then I asked why in the hell are we training the Russians with our best troops and he whispered that we are not training them, where training with them. At that point he said he was busy and had to get back to work, it was nice seeing me and get the hell out.

        I think your assumptions on why Russian troops are on American soil training with US combat troops could be right. The government knows that state and local law enforcement would most likely refuse an order to seize firearms from legal owners, and they only way to disarm the American public would be by force of arms by a an overwhelming force of military personnel. Being that we don’t have enough military troops they would have to resort to bringing in troops from other countries.

        This is probably not news to you, but I thought I would send it anyway. ”



        suckers .

        • Zionist troll hunter

          Can you please start with Omegaman ? He is annoying the crapout of me.

          Nice to see you back mate

          Take care

          • ;0) who’s nina o ???

            ;0P pssszzt

            … last i heard on the prepper grapevine nina o got himself fbi attacked cia hacked and then shot by the traitor zionist nsa israeli mossad jew assassin nazi dhs fed gov storm troopers in montana , united socialistic states of ameriKa .

            R I P NINA O .

            ;0( …… boo hoo

            • Zionist

              If he survives these terrible things…tell him I miss him. In the meantime I’ll chat with you.

              Take care

        • nina, are you ok? what else is going on. youre in colorado?

          • nina, as a military police officer , it is your duty to make the mass arrests NOW!you are the real drake!if not, may the real slim drakey, please stand up!Pretty please.

            • @ eeder … be patient pls , folks are still wakin up to the truth of it all … and they simply are either too ignorant , too scared or simply aren’t HUNGRY enough yet to REBEL and start a true REVOLUTION against the NWO , DA’ MAN , TPTB and ZIONIST satanic FREEMASONS .

              remember @eeder their control is global now in every nato country . even china and russia has nwo factions in it .

              patience please @eeder REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD !!!

              be patient its coming … give it time to fester , rot , stink up the world some more .

              Arm Up Stock Up Prepare for nwo un agenda 21 martial law , then a FREEMAN PATRIOT AMERICAN REVOLUTION …

              PREDATOR or PREY of the NWO UN AGENDA 21 EUGENICISTS , the CHOICE is YOURS !!!

              ~ nwo nazi zionist fed gov convict # 666 aka nina o

          • @ eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeder ;0)

            i’ve been off fightin’ zeeeeeeeeeee nazi zionist joooooooooooo’s !!!

            they’ve been seriously destroying my puter’s lately with cyber hacks .

            so i just shut it all down … my posts are pissin them off it appears .

            ;0P pssszzt da’ nwo and zionist joooooooo’s every where .

            and it appears this website shtfplan is being mirrored by the feds with a man in the middle hack attack by the nsa darpa mafia gang .

            they’ve been intercepting posts here on their own nazi nsa gov fed puters .

            screening the posts as we / i / you all type them .

            this is what you would call a zionist ameriKan facist dictatorship .


            so what up doc ???

            ;0p pssszzt

            missed me huh ??? aaaaaaaaaawww …

            ur not a tinker bell are ya’ @ eeder ;0( … it’s okay … ;0P kisses slurp , i missed you too eeder ;0) .

            ;0) bwaaaahahaha


            ~ nwo nazi zionist fed gov convict # 666 aka nina o

            • lmao nina…i am blasting them dialy in person and on the phone.i will be more patient… i see people getting angrier! lets hope it becomes a crescendo soon. than you can go in and make the arrests!

      31. 13. The stupid shall be punished! Those that spend all their time on the boob tube and believing in the bread and circuses that are running this country/world via the main stream media will get a MASSIVE wake up call in short order. Unfortunately they will panic and demand that those of us who did prepare have to share with them.
        The grasshopper and the ant comes to mind. Except that those of us who DID prepare will eat the ant (figuratively speaking- i’ll feed them to my danes)
        there is a major reset coming and I fear it will be bad.
        Governments will thrash and impliment martial law, confiscations of property, warrentless searches (oops they are already doing it), relocation camps, etc before it really gets bad when the people left fight back against it all.
        2012 is not the answer but 1791 is. Original constitution only to start with with one exception to it. TERM FRICKIN LIMITS! enough rant for today, gotta crash.

        • Original constitution? forget that. If I am not allowed to vote again, I am not supporting YOUR white male constitution. Do you think you can screw over all the females again by taxing us with no representation? Make blacks slaves again etc and think I will support you? NO

          You are divisive and don’t believe in real liberty.

          • USA now has representation without taxation. It’s like we have fallen into a looking glass. Females have gotten what their mothers demanded, and many would like to give it back and raise their own children.

            The solution to the other issue would cause lots of red thumbs. Lincoln was right on that one.

            • Women can’t stay home with their kids because men aren’t man enough to support them these days. I know women who would like nothing more than to stay home with their kids at least until school age, but their husband isn’t man enough to bring home the bacon like my father did.

              But now you will say that isn’t their fault, it is the economy. If men want to rule the planet, then they need to shut up and pay the freight. Why do we have economic problems? What have THEY done about it? What they want is to have the power but not pay for it or behave like real men.

          • Dish,

            Hmmm. When you said that I had to go back and read the 1791 constituion. I’m not a very smart guy, so, would you please help me out? I need to know which section prohibited blacks and women from voting?

            • Nice try, but if you think the american people are that stupid when it comes to their own history you are mistaken. Did you honestly think you could fool them into somehow forgetting that women couldn’t vote and that blacks were slaves? Seriously?

              Tell me where females are mentioned ANYWHERE in the original constitution? It’S FREEDOMS didn’t apply to us, we all know that. Except that we had to pay taxes for NOTHING IN RETURN. We all know what it said about slaves.

          • @dish – spoken like a true MK slave. If you really believe that is what the US Constitution is about, you are still drinking the koolaid while plugged into the Matrix.

            • Hello? Do you know american history? That is exactly what the constitution was about. Read any history book. Going back to the original constitution would negate aany gains by blacks and females.

              This site has good info, but there are too many crazy religious/haters here. they hate blacks, they hate gays, they hate women, they hate jews.

              Just so you know I am a feminist and I am heavily armed. so are a lot of us. I am saving some ammo just for you crazies if you come around trying to shove your hate off on the rest of us when it collapses.

          • Dish, why don’t you run away with the spoon.

      32. Not much in here about defense. If you have some preps, you’ll need to defend them. Its not as expensive as you might think. You don’t need military rifles and expensive handguns. A basic kit and a few hundred rounds of ammo is all you need to keep what you’ve got.

        Just purchasing a used, single shot shotgun with the appropriate ammo can provide defense and game getting ability far above sticks rocks and stones.

        Add to that a 9mm handgun and now you’re easily mobile.

        Then add a good, accurate, 22 bolt gun and you can take small game easily and give yourself a third prong for self defense.

        Like the normalcy bias produced by our successful society, most people never really understand that the “zombie apocalypse” could strike soon. Only, they won’t be trying to eat you, they’ll just want your preps. If you have any food, light or power, they will try to take it.

        My rule of thumb is this: if you can’t defend it, you don’t have it. In other words: if you don’t have the ability to defend your preps they will be taken from you and your effort to acquire them will have been wasted and your future survival imperilled.

        You don’t have to become a gun nut. Just get a shotgun and 5 boxes of shells. Just think. Get over your normalcy bias. Its a deadly disease.

        • i plan to just use my hands to strangle any would be thugs before using weapons.

        • Actually, they might be trying to eat you too.

        • Has anyone here had the chance to pick up one of the new Ruger 10-22 “take down” carbines. Would like to hear a short review.

          • I was getting some BX-25 magazines for my old 1980s 10-22 yesterday and I picked up a stainless/synthetic one in the local gun shop yesterday. The label said it breaks down and returns to zero without tools. I want one of the HB models.

      33. unless its those crazy coyote hunters coming back!

      34. seeing how gutless the germans are , i am going out on a limb and predicting that finland will be the first dominoe. finland is going to pull out of the euro and a cascade effect will begin.

        • The Taliban won, and they are all but officially back in power. Drones don’t kill insurgencies.

          • Your right they don’t!

      35. First and foremost Durango Kidd I have to ask, is your real name Ben Stein? Are you kidding me? explain the derivative markets! The filthy creatures that created these mkts can’t even explain them due to their complexity. Here’s a quote from the Rolling Stones that might help you with that big ole brain you must have.
        “But what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game”.

        To the ladies that DK attempted to humiliate, here is the very basic def. “The derivatives market is the financial market for derivatives, financial instruments like futures contracts or options, which are derived from other forms of assets”.

        DK if you can thoroughly break down all of the elements and tools of these mkts I’ll buy you a lollipop.
        I wont go as far as calling you a troll as I’m new to this comment section, but your style, or lack thereof is certainly indicative of such activity.
        Good day!

        • No I am not Ben Stein. The ladies can’t explain them either, and it makes no difference whether they are male or female: they have no fucking idea what they are talking about, and if you had been here for the past two years as I have and read the nonsense that spews out of the keyboards about economics, you would be in a better position to judge me when I call “Bullshit”.

          Stick around.

        • BTW Rich: I have given a pretty good overview of derivatives a couple of times over the last six months and those overviews are in the Archives here if you care to look. 🙂

          • lets be honest durango kid, neither you or me can truly explain the derivitives market. its a gargantuan mess.

            • eeder: Check the archives I think I did explain it pretty well a couple of times. Its not rocket science for people in finance, banking, economics, or sophisticated businesses.

              Its a risk management tool, and it has been around for a very long time; but it is only as good as the technician that uses it; and that is the same for any tool used by any tradesman in any trade as well.

              If there is a $700 trillion dollar market for derivatives, how big of an underlying loan portfolio does that amount represent?

              Put it into perspective, eeder: how big is the daily currency market? The yearly currency market?

              How big is the currency market if you add up the past fifteen to twenty years of the aggregate currency trades while derivatives have been a serious financial instrument?

              Compare that number to the derivatives market. Are WE fearful that the currency markets are going to implode?

              Getting the picture? People have no idea what too big to fail really means. Derivatives are not rocket science, but the math for the algorithums are.

              It just can’t be explained by soccer moms. 🙂

        • Thanks Rich, but seriously, I KNOW what Derivatives are. I have read ALOT about them. People on this site make general comments all the time. Just bc I think we’re going to have a crash and Dk doesn’t, well we differ. I also think there’s going to be a Black Swan, do I need to explain my reasoning for that too?

          What I do know also, is I’m probably more prepped than he is, which is what REALLY matters to me!!!!

          • PSM: I think WE would all be interested to hear what you think the next black swan is going to be, so why not tell US?

            As for the prepping, I am honestly and sincerely pleased that you and your family are prepped. But don’t underestimate me, its not a bet that you would want to make. 🙂

      36. The automatic cuts that start Jan 2013 as a result of the Super Committee failing or politicos not pulling the switch more like it, will be a huge event.Were gonna see a 50% reduction in a standard of living.That’s with BO or Mitt.But don’t worry,the war machine will be healthy.

        • More fuel for the MASS ARRESTS.

        • As I understand it, defense gets a 15% cut, Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid are off the table and it is the Federal employees who are facing unemployment. 1M out of work over 2 years and 1/2 of one-percent off GDP.

          However, Congress can cancel or revise the automatic cuts, aka: sequestration. Looks like it will be a GOP Congress, as well.

          Today, Wall Street is bullish on risk. Who knows what will happen tomorrow? This is all predicated on the bailout of Spain. They have 10 days to calculate the Spanish banks’ capitalization needs. No one is going to go after the USD until they have either brought down the Euro or stabilized it. If they calculate that the Spanish banks need less than 100B Euros, the markets will celebrate. Right now, the analysts seem to think Spain is “doing things right”.

          Oh, and the Chinese economic numbers are not that bad, either. Today. Over 15% increase in exports that no one, globally, is buying at retail. When does that bubble pop?

          The US will revisit the debt ceiling in a few months. At some point, if the US Treasury is the only buyer of our debt, our dollar is going to be the punished currency of the year.

          How do we have a real US recovery in this environment? I do think we will see a sham recovery, though. It will be spun until it is total cognitive dissonance.

      37. Who the Hell is Kayne West?

        • From what my grandkids tell me, a “rap” singer. What ever “rap” crap is.

        • Isn’t he that semi-famous black guy that got drunk and insulted the white girl on national television who won some music award, claiming the black girl should have won?

        • “fitty sense” buddy

        • kanye west is the NWO PIED PIPER a nwo sellout black GANGSTER african ameriKan ” holly.joo.wood ” nwo schill wanna be white house negro helping the nwo zionists mk-ultra brainwash you the ameriKan tax debt slaves through music videos and songs that promote the freemason satanic nwo and their un agenda 21 globalist eugenics plans .

          … and he is bonin’ using da’ ” holly.joo.wood ” nwo zionist prostitute kim kardaschian for arm candy .

          ~ nwo zionist fed gov convict #666 nina o

      38. Italian Bank, Network Bank Investment, looks like failure or on bankers holiday until maybe june? Frozen accounts with no way for depositors to access accounts.


        • From the site I just saw, it’s until July. No deposits or withdrawls. Checks, ATM’s & teller withdraws suspended. I suspect this could be a somewhat serious incident. Italians are noted for not putting up with this kind of BS.

      39. I am lucky because I learned to live by my wits. Being fatherless and being homeless as a child and teenager taught me to be responsible. I have things, none of I ever thought I would ever own. Sleeping in a car was normal for me when I graduated high school. Working two jobs and helping my mother was as normal as breathing. I learned all those years ago that if I work I can eat and have a place to lay my head. My mother was a pillar of strength for me. Seeing her working her two jobs and sleeping in the back seat of our 1969 Zephyr. My bedroom was the front seat. Hah! I can survive, even if it means eating things out of a trash can. I will survive! That was our motto back then. Thank God for COCO’S Restaurants and the Peter Pan motel right down the street from Disney Land, in San Diego California. We saw a lot and we hustled a lot. I am better off than most Americans because I didn’t drink the Kool-Aid. I knew that to eat requires that you do something. It won’t come to you out of thin air, like so many people on welfare think. Every thing has a price. If you have kids, like I do the best thing you can do for them, is not spoil them. Show them to work their tails and earn what they eat. Nothing is free, every thing cost some thing. Work it! Work it! Work it! When it does collapse some people would rather starve than to go out and get their own food. I say every one has the option to give up and die. If that is what you want. If not even the laziest bum will have to get up and go work at some thing.

        • Best post I’ve seen here for some time. Very sobering.

        • I don’t wish hardships on anyone but if the rest of the country had walked in your shoes, today we’d be in a much different, and better place.

        • While your sentiments seem to be getting a good response, I have to question if this is indeed your story because if it was, you would know that Disleyland is no-where near San Diego, Ca.

          It is in Anaheim and if you were from Calif. or lived there you would know that.

      40. Between what Manos sent shtfplan & this article, one gets a picture of what is likely coming our way. Yeah, weapons & foodstuffs are at the top of list, but look at the medicines & potable water issues. Sanitation is up there too. Nothing like a good outbreak of dysentery or typhoid to make things interesting without proper meds, let alone what other biologicals the PTB’s will spread around for good measure.

      41. ~~~I just realized something: Most Catholics are registered at the particular parish they go to. This includes names, phone numbers, and home addresses. I’m thinking that if it were for SHTF, the priest would have simply asked you to update that registration if you moved, got a different number, etc.

        Given that, I’m thinking the email thing is most likely for newsletters and such~~~~~~~

        But with email you can reach out and touch all the congregation with one touch in case of an emergency; not likely with phone.

      42. off topic question doeas anyone know ig youcan grow bean from the dried ones ya get form the grovery store ( the ones ya storin to eat) heard ya can. I do not see why not and I may gove it a try to see for myself just wimdering if anyone has tried it or if it works…

      43. oops sorry for tyois child jumpin around on bed while I type 🙂

      44. Snake Plissken says:

        June 10, 2012 at 3:05 pm

        @ Jayjay

        Best tip I’ve read in months!

        Tell me, does this method work for: A.Rice B.Quick Grits C.Dried Beans D.Oats E. Barley?

        Thanking you in advance

        I check my jars quite often since last year when sealed.
        The lady said her friend used this method for most dried goods…but my rice is in buckets, because one bucket = $1 from deli; you get the picture–jars are $8 a dozen.
        Definitely do oats and she even did this to macaroni.
        I was concerned with the sites saying my pancake, flour, and cornmeal wouldn’t last in the bucket..so I am relieved to find a way for longer shelf life.
        Good luck..and 2 years ago, I canned butter.

        • @ JJ….Thanx for the tips, could you let us know how to can the butter? How does it taste and would last for a year or two?

        • JJ,
          Thanks dude. I’ve got a whole bunch of rice and beans in “Seal a Meal” bags that I’ll be canning this next week. I also checked out Yahoo and found the same info that you gave, God Bless you in your preps.

      45. I read a book about surviving an economic collapse in Argentina and according to the author it was more important to have a good handgun with you 24/7 then the exotic assault rifle (not that one would do away with either). The bad guys catch you when your in your driveway with your head under the hood of your car. The bottom line is there is truth to strength in numbers. A now peaceful suburban neighborhood may need to become a de-facto gated community in the future. That vacant lot is a community garden with everyone in the same boat with different skills; Joe is a plumber, Mike an electrician and Debby can grow anything. The next generation of lawn rabbits are in for a real surprise.

        There is no way anyone will tackle this alone for too long.

      46. This is the book Kevin2 is talking about.
        I’ve left off the http:// and the html.


        Hope this helps.

      47. DK,
        I’m a lurker and have never posted but always enjoy reading your posts and the 3-4 others that seem to be educated and have a grip on reality. thank you

        • Thanks Doc! Its hard to go against the grain when so many are fixed in their positions without justification. I do the best I can.

          I am just trying to dispel the fear and insanity with a dose of reality. Yes there are problems, but nothing WE can’t deal with, fix, or adjust.

          It just takes organization, cooperation, application, and a will to win. Many here do not have that will, like Laura M, who spreads her poison to others.

          Misery loves company.

          • DK,
            I applaud your optimism but please don’t tell me you think this can be corrected in short order. The true numbers are simply too overwhelming. We have virtually no capacity for real manufacturing left in the U.S. I’m in W. PA and they have done a fine job of razing all the previous infrastructure. So we would have to rebuild that just to get started manufacturing again. The list goes on, as I’m sure you know. Between the Indoctrination,subjugation,and finally medication…This nation is very ill prepared to engage in the activity required to get us back on track. Furthermore the majority of sheeple do not even have a clue that there is even anything wrong in most respects. So please spare the rainbow riding unicorn who is shitting all the skittles. Simply remember the name of the website you have been commenting on for the past couple of years (which I might add is a long time)and try to remember that not everyone wakes up in the same way.This shit is going to collapse as we know it and that’s a fact! The one and only fact that is unknown, and is the most important, is just exactly how it will play out.
            Good Day!

        • Hey, good post! It’s only going to grow like cancer. Where is the MSM on this story??? LOL!! That is the joke of the day!

          are ya the same Satori on Ham Radio? I think out of Tn

        • Satori,

          Thank you for the link. I couldn’t find a link about this written in English.

          Pretty scary!!! We keep very little in our personal account.

          We have a small business. You know it is not just personal accounts in banks…There are business accounts too. That would cause a lot of trouble.

      48. AmeriKa was just completely ” SOLD OUT ” by the USSA SENATE House of Representatives … YOU YES ” YOU ” now work for the Jooo’s of zion israel . you are now owned by jooo’s .

        Juuuuust in case ya’ ameriKan tax debt slaves All missed it … ” YOU ALL ” JUST GOT “SOLD” off the Slave Auction Block by your own States U.S. zionist jooo luvin Senators for LIFE to da’ zionist jooo’s of israel – to NEW ZION !!!



        GET IT ???

        CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW ???

        ~ nwo zionist nazi fed gov convict # 666 aka nina o

      49. This method was my first try…I hot water bath canned the second batch…easier, faster, same results.
        I haven’t eaten my butter(it’s for SHTF days), but it’s still sealed and pretty.
        Note: I let butter cool some with the second batch BEFORE shaking with same results.
        Can hard, can fast, can with care.

        link below..can’t post for some reason

        • I want my XP 2000 back…from the box in the closet.
          I still don’t know what’s going on with my new HP laptop!

      50. *…* = sarcasm content over 99% in this area

        I gave up trying to say anything relevant a couple of years ago. Stick with the shilly sit. Then recently, I tried again. You know, talk about the issues and make a real contribution to Mac’s site. Big mistake! Say anything about politics or economics and folks just want to slap me down for being so dumb. (hey, I can’t help it- I was born that way) *And, being such a sensitive guy, wanting so badly to be liked and needing affirmation for my fragile ego and teetering self esteem, the hurtful remarks sent me into a week of intense therapy.* That is, a week on the back porch with the banjo, a jar of iced tea and Jimmy Rogers at high volume on the 8-track player. I think I’m beginning to recover.

        Seriously though, it’s been an interesting week. I’ve prayed for manos and his family many times. And for our own country, including those with opposing views. What’s to become of the once-great Yoo Knighted Staytes? Time will tell….
        One thing I do know for sure, the kinder gentler okie ain’t cutting it. And that guy would be the first to fall when the s really htf. Goodbye, chump…welcome back old okie. Pull up a chair and sit anywhere you like, you’re going to anyway. Spout off with loads of utter nonsense, mess up the place, then leave without payin your tab. We’re used to that guy.

        Now, a short tale from the road…a few days ago in Texas:

        me: “How did you know I was SmokinOkie?”
        cop: “First, your drivers license says you live in Oklahoma. Second, you got a home made shtfplan.com sticker on your window. Third, I got a computer at home and sometimes tool around the net myself. Fourth, who else would be driving a Freightliner through a construction zone at 15 over the limit, and steering with his knee so he could use both hands to play air guitar?”
        me: “Actually, it was air banjo, but….you got me!”

        Well, crap. Now my opsec is totally blown! Guess I’ll have to move and change my name…(the artist formerly know as okie?)

        • I believe I’d enjoy a beer with you okie.

        • Jim Rogers is one of the only ones that actually will tell the truth without all the BS. He and Soros made tons of money in the 70’s when the S&P went no where for 10+ years.
          I cannot stand Soros, but I have met Mr. Rogers a few times, and he is more creditable than most, I listen to what he has said and made decent money. Why do you think he moved from NYC to Singapore, to get to a place where he and family are out of “harms way”, if there is such a place?

      51. I wonder why the citizens of Corinth fed the lowlifes in the prison. It would be wiser if they were left to starve in there.

        St Paul would regret writing the damned letters to Corinth!

      52. I hope many get to read this… Go to the European union times and look at a article.

      53. Net Worth of the American Family Falls 40% in 3 Years


        Direct link on Drudge Report

      54. GLOBAL EUGENICS 101

        NONE OF YOU EVEN HAD A CHANCE … EVENTUALLY ALL ATTACK ” PIGS ” TURN ON THEIR MASTERS and their master weaker servant slaves ( you ) .

        see the truth … you all serve the very people who will / would have you killed willingly as goyim gentile useless breather cockroches .

        April 24, 1974

        National Security Study Memorandum 200 NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL

        The Secretary of Defense
        The Secretary of Agriculture
        The Director of Central Intelligence
        The Deputy Secretary of State
        Administrator Agency for International Development

        The President has directed a study of the impact of world population growth on U.S. security and overseas interests. The study should look forward at least until the year 2000, and use several alternative reasonable projections of population growth.


      55. The #1 cause of death in an economic collapse is projected to be lack of access to medicines. On my website, I teach people how to safely get off their Rx drugs (personally, I got off 4 Rx drugs I previously couldn’t function without). http://essentialsurvival.org.

        • Julie: I have been reading lately about the benefits of imbibing diluted (3% or less) hydrogen dioxide, better known as hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) as a general purpose tonic.

          Apparently doctors in Europe have done serious studies of this therapy over the years, and I have found considerable personal testimonies on the Net that say it has cured stage IV cancer and other diseases.

          As a quart of H202 costs 88 cents at Wal Mart these personal testimonials are not profiting in any way from their testimony.

          There is no profit in it for Big Pharma of course, which is why WE haven’t heard about it in the USA.

          My peeps, everyone should research this on the Net via Google, and consider adding it to your preps.

      56. For some the crisis in Greece is found fodder. It supports their “end of the world” scenario. Things are bad in Greece, no question, but things could be much worse. Basically Greece is torn, should it comply with the austerity dictate from countries like Germany, or should it leave the Euro Zone and return to its own currency. Left wing radicals are suggesting to tear up the agreement it had reached with Germany to curtail its spending, while rightwing radicals are suggesting the opposite. Should the elections bring about Greece’s departure from the Euro, most likely Spain and Portugal may follow. If this happens it will also seriously impact the US economy. What no one is talking about is the Greek money which is leaving Greece and buying real estate in Germany. There is a real estate boom in Germany because of all the foreign investments in Germany. Anyone in these 3 countries with money is moving it to Germany and investing in real estate. So, while you have people committing suicide or being hungry you also have a lot of people moving their money out of Greece and investing it elsewhere. What is happening in Greece is necessary in order to return the country to fiscal responsibility. Yes, for the next 3-5yrs. Greece will be poor, regardless if they stay with the Euro or not, but they could not continue to borrow and borrow and not have the means of repaying their loans. Greece, like the US, needs to change its economy and start looking at developing an export economy. Not everyone can work for the govt., have excessive vacations, social benefits and hope some other Euro country is going to pay for it. It is a tough lesson and Greece will survive. We tried to re-energize our economy with bail-outs and it did not work. Why should Germany continue to bail out Greece and Greece is doing nothing to curtail its expenses? Yes, the time has come for Greece to suffer a bit, but it will be stronger in the end. What is much worse is if Greece, Spain and Portugal were all to collapse. Even Germany could not bail out these 3 countries and remain an economic power and if Germany’s economy were to collapse, America would have major problems. So, watch what is happening over there, but take it all with a grain of salt. Greece will survive.

      57. I don’t know where some people get their information from, but what do the Free Masons have to do with any economic collapse? The Free Masons are no a secret society, but a society with secrets. I have been a Mason for over 30yrs., active in my Lodge and I have never once witnessed any satanic or secret meetings where we decide on the fate of the world. In fact, we donate large amounts of money to worthy causes, such as hospitals and other medical facilities. Yes, we try to take care of each other, but this does not mean we conspire against non-masons. Yes, most of America’s President’s had been Free Masons, but so what? Show me some factual conspiracies where the Masons have harmed the United States? Most of these rumors come from people who have never been Free Masons or know anything about Freemasonry. Go ahead and call me a chill for the Masons, but I am telling you, you are way off in your thinking. You will find Masons in every walk of life. None are evil or satanic or interested in harming our country.

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