10 Reasons Why Building a Community is Key When the SHTF

by | Jul 24, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 315 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Editor’s Note: The following article from Survivor Mike at The Home for Survival details strategies for community building before and after an SHTF event. While many preppers hesitate to bring any newcomers, especially neighbors they may not know, into their preparedness circle or even preparedness conversation, as Mike suggests, making friends and plans now may be our saving grace when things go sour. Operational Security is, of course, a key consideration, but so too is how you’ll handle a post-SHTF world, especially if it’s just you and your immediate family. While we’ve found it difficult to get neighbors or even family on board with preparedness planning, opening a dialogue and getting to know your neighbors is in our best interest. As we’ve learned from several post-collapse books and resources, communities and groups that band together often have a better chance of surviving than do road warriors or those who want to stand their ground alone when looters or gangs make a move on their homes and supplies. The alternatives to not building a community could and will likely be deadly, as rather than having friends and colleagues to lean on, they instead turn on you to gain access to your supplies. This is an important conversation to have, and Survivor Mike brings to light some key talking points. 

    You’re living in your suburban home. CNN has just said that the stock market is dropping for the ninth day in a row and people are now racing to their banks to empty their accounts. Couple this with an unstable euro, an unstable Middle East, and a worldwide economic recession and you get the start of the shit hitting the fan. How does your neighborhood react to this? Who in your neighborhood do you trust?

    Now take that a step further and imagine a state of civil unrest. Homes nearby are being looted and undesirables are now common in your neighborhood. You have a weapon, but the occupants of your home include you, your wife, and your two small children. You have a front door, a backdoor, and the garage door. How do you cover all three much less the first floor windows?

    What I’ve described above is the situation you will be faced with when the SHTF. So, do you need to build a community of liked-minded folks when the shit hits the fan? I believe there are 10 reasons why building a community is key when it all goes down.

    1) Strength in Numbers

    Being in a suburban area, I tend to worry about what will happen if looters run amok. I imagine when the SHTF, criminals will likely run in gangs. Those gangs will target individual homes for looting and potentially seek to oust the folks living there. They would target homes with a small number of occupants to make their raids that much easier.

    So, to avoid being in their crosshairs, it would be optimal to be viewed as a large group. These criminals will have quite a few homes to choose from when things get tough and there is no sense in being an easy target. Remember, giving the perception of a large force is enough to deter those with bad intentions.

    2) More Hands, More Work Done

    Continuing with the theme of a group, the more folks in that group, the more workers you have. Those additional sets of hands will be able to help garden, cook, pack supplies, gather water, and hunt for food. While you will have to feed and care for those extra bodies, the work you get from them should more than make up for it.

    I would much rather have 5 people foraging for food and supplies versus one, as time will be of the essence.

    3) Pre-planning

    Knowing you’ll have a community of preppers allows you to be proactive with planning now. You can request your neighbors start preparing by gathering supplies, preparing their homes and getting their financials in order. You can even go as far as planning the homes you will use for what purpose. By having those families focus on particular areas of prepping, you can be sure you will be best prepared when the trigger event happens.

    At the very least, having your neighbors prepared will prevent them from being a liability when things go south. The last thing you need is a needy “friend” eating into your family’s supplies.

    4) Multiple Locations

    Having multiple homes in a community provides several advantages. Besides the tactical advantage of defending yourself, you acquire additional space for supplies, including areas to prep them.

    Additionally, you provide the sense of normalcy for the folks in the community. Utilizing one house as a mess hall could be a possibility. Having a house serve as a medical facility is another. You would almost be able to build a town within the community. You cannot underestimate the importance of this helping with the psychology of the group trying to survive.

    5) Additional Resource Network

    Your neighbors will have different supplies, different tools, and especially different skills. That alone is a huge asset when attempting to survive in uncertain times. However, the resources we don’t think about are the various contacts they may have.  They may have an uncle who owns 10 shotguns. A cousin that has an RV for sale. A friend with access to critical medical supplies.

    Each neighbor will have their own network of contacts that may come in handy. Those contacts become even more valuable when things get very tough. You may even choose to join a larger group that your neighbors will have paved the way for by providing that connection.  We can be sure that we will need to be creative during difficult times.

    6) More Supplies

    You can never have enough supplies when chaos ensues.  Your neighbor may have several bundles of firewood he’s been collecting. Another may have a portable generator and a water filtration system. Another may have access to items very useful for bartering. Each one may have specialized tools to do things you do not.

    With each person you bring into to the group, you add to your potential assets. While they will come with their own liabilities (need for food, shelter, etc), the assets and skills they bring should tip the scales in your favor.

    7) Never Stop Working

    When you are part of a group, you’re able to work in shifts. You are also able to continue working if one of the group gets ill. This is key when you are pressed for time in preparing supplies.

    As mentioned earlier, you’ll also have people that excel in certain areas. This will allow you to accomplish things efficiently and effectively.  For example, my neighbor happens to be very good with electrical issues. If we needed to fashion something electrical, I would be very hard-pressed to come up with something effective. The time I spend working on that electrical solution would be time away from building defense capabilities, which are my strengths.  Not to mention, it would take me significantly longer.

    8 ) Companionship

    When the SHTF, people will have a hard time adjusting. We will be going from a life where we have access to almost everything, to a life where getting the basic needs will be a challenge. While having our families will be a crutch that we rely on, having others to share the hardship with will certainly be a comfort.

    As a man I know that hanging out with my male buddies is something I look forward to. Being able to vent to the other dads in the community and husbands will be a huge release (and take a bit of the burden off my wife). Don’t ignore the importance of human companionship when facing tough times.

    9) Never a Bad Thing… More Guards

    Obviously, the additional folks will help defend the community. Again, the different skill sets will come into play here. Some neighbors may have experience in the military which will come in handy when defending your position.

    I hear many preppers say they have so many weapons in their home that would be difficult for any looters or criminals to penetrate. However, at most you will be able to fire two guns (as you have two hands). I don’t know many people that could hit a target with two guns in your left and right hand.

    Having and training additional marksmen would put you at a huge advantage. Think about it, as a criminal would you want to face an armed group or dad trying to defend his wife and two kids?

    10) Scouts / Reconnaissance

    Having the ability to leave your compound without fear of losing it, is a distinct advantage. There will be times when you need to go out and either hunt for food, do some reconnaissance, or simply search for supplies.  Having able-bodied men guarding your community allows you (and others) to venture out to find information and plan further.

    Remember, there will be no turning on CNN to find out what’s going on down the street.  You will need to be able to gather intelligence military style.


    Clearly, having more mouths to feed and more variables in the equation will be a challenge.  However, a unified front when the desperate folks come calling is clearly the best long term approach.

    This article has been contributed by Survivor Mike of The Home for Survival.


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      1. Barlow

        The problem I have is that I have too many mouths in my neighborhood that like to run constantly.

        Loose lips sink ships.

        • OmegaGrayKnight

          the person that is best prepared will most of the time be the one in charge. when you have good neighbors you might want to think of adding them into your prepping supplies once you have enough for your family. being able to keep good neighbors even if they didn’t prepare is still a smart idea. rationing food for several people is better than having plenty of food for a few people.

          • Gods Creation

            Actually, your gov corp proves that those with the strongest personalities and weakest character will try to take over, and they will likely be the least prepared and most lacking in intelligence.

            I’ll stay out of those “community” fights in favor of protecting my family from them. If the community survives, I will see them on the other side.

        • Facebook Page

          The story is so true. Over the year I have had the pleasure of being associated with a group of “Prepared persons”. From the hardcore prepper (Even a few crazy ones that maybe need to be checked on once and a while, There is a point I am glad there are mental professional out there.And that I have body armor, never know what mood they will be in when I visit.) To the person that just keep a true 90 day supply in the basement with a spare shotgun or 2. For the big earthquake when it happens.

          This possiablly the moist layman clearly stated article I may hae every read concern groups, networh and local commuity survival. Thumb up.

          OH I can hit the target with my left and my right hand. Even on the run. I was expenise to learn and practiece but is well worth if you need it. (Injury) Plus it is cool to show off once and while at the tac range.

          • Facebook Page

            God Creation I have been posting so much lately because I have a crap chest cold that won’t go away. And it July WT. So I under bed rest order from my commander. And you are still insane but get well paid for it.

            • Facebook Page

              I am going to tske my ball and go home.

          • Facebook Page

            I agree with the writing even applaud the writer and still receive this beating.

            Is this a case of hating the player instead of the game.

        • Tym

          Yep. Same here. However, here in my TX neighborhood there is a Browning sticker on the window of a truck about every five houses. I figure the rest just don’t like decals.

          That said, I plan to talk to nobody until all doubt has been erased. Then I’m sure we’ll all get together and discuss the plan going forward…

          • Bronx prepper

            I envy you , i live in new York city (the Bronx) too many people and no second amendment,but still prepping.god bless you and your family.

        • AZ Ready

          I keep my mouth shut now. Found out from my good friend and fellow prepper that one in our extended group has made the decision to stop preparing. He said he knows who has preps and where to “steal” them from, by force if needed. Not good. He will be on my and others short list if you know what I mean.

          • Barlow

            When the shtf, he should be escorted from the area asap, or dealt with otherwise.

            • Barlow

              I just hope he doesn’t nark you guys out to the local swat team.

            • SHTForBrains

              Nooooooooooooooo! That’s the beginning of law and order, and eventually a Police State!

            • Anton Hackl

              Nope….around here, he’d rapidly become pig-chow after his teeth were removed with the blunt end of a hatchet.
              Pigs will eat everything…ask Henry Bowman.

            • SWIFT

              A Barlow to the brain?

          • PO'd Patriot

            Start digging the hole for him now and that way you won’t have to muck around and waste time after you cap him.

          • JayJay

            Another reason I do not agree with this article.
            There are waaaay more unprepared than prepared.
            Why alert them to our stock??
            Nope, no way.

            • thisonewilldo

              It’s mostly because sooner or later we are going to have to. Unless you bug out and leave, the rest of us will have to deal with the starving and injured masses…better to have a plan in place before the shtf.

            • bigpaul

              couldn’t agree more, i trust no one, all my neighbours are sheeple, when TSHTF i will be going lone wolf, i keep OPSEC why inform anyone i have stocks? if they dont know, they wont know where to go.

        • Jim

          A community would be a grand thing, but sadly I can’t find one. Either they are over the top “RAWLES” like followers that want every waking minute to be about preparations or they are arm chair preppers that buy a few survival packs and ammo. I’ve never found a happy medium so I go it alone. Hence I have no real hope if a street gang decides to burn my house down and I wasn’t bright enough to bail out long before – should that day ever come the best I can do is take a few of them with me; so hopefully when they run into you guys they aren’t as well off.

          • Highspeedloafer

            I have one neighbor that I can count on. I have another neighbor who loves to shoot but hasn’t prepared a stitch. My prepared brother lives a mile away, and several patriots live within 5 miles. We have a central meeting place locked and stocked with food, tools and water.

          • Odd Questioner

            Believe it or not, there is a middle-ground.

            You just have to get friendly with your neighbors, but not bring up the prepping thing directly… just indirectly.

          • 64 ECHO MIKE

            Jim, most people are probably in the same situation that you are. I am. Maybe we need to use our time to find some place to move to or seek out groups whether they are friends and/or family or not. I know that is easier said than done but after a few years of prepping and some of the early stressed being relieved I can now think about moving and in a few weeks I am going to start checking some places out. These are hard choices because it means leaving all I know behind. This however is better than the alternative. Have good success because luck ain’t real!!!

          • Accroyer

            As a prior soldier with ten years in (6 of those 10 in Special Operations), this article is dead on. Unfortunately it’s hard to find like minded people locally that feel the same way. I am located in Southern Nevada and the closest group I have come across is in South Dakota. This will be a real problem for many people.

            • John Carter from Mars

              Maybe if Mac could create something where people can meet / chat on this site discretely and make contact without the world knowing. There seem to be people from similar areas. Ohio, Cali, Oregon, lots from Texas, NM and Arizona. Better to build your group or even just contacts in your area with people you chat with anyway at SHTFplan. There are a few from Britian and Australia too.
              Just a thought.

            • Marty

              I’d be interested in knowing if there’s any “like minded” people in the southern Wisconsin area. Preferably near Hartford… I currently am going to have to go it alone otherwise…

          • Beholdenages

            I am fortunate to live in an area with a lot of preppers. Land is still somewhat cheap here in Ashtabula County, Ohio if you can afford to move out. God help the ‘zombies’ who stagger this way.

        • Gods Creation

          The time to build alliances is AFTER the SHTF collapse and civil disruption has played out for a while.

          If you can survive those first 60 days, you can then begin to hook up with others who have also pulled through the initial storm.

          The problem with groups is that someone always wants to lead them. What you see in someone after the collapse may not be the mild mannered prepper you see today.

          I will lead myself to the other side. It will do no good to come together until then. A small group is much more likely to have resources worth stealing, thus becoming a target for larger groups.

          That will either get me killed or save my life.

          • Mr. G

            GC, You have just mirrored what MiamiPrepper1 said in one of his YouTube messages: Hang tight and survive the first 90 days, then form alliances.

            Wholeheartedly I agree with you. For one, I would NOT lead any neighborhood group for the sake of preservation of my family.

            Its OPSEC all the way about how well I am prepared. The only like-minded friend I can trust is 1200 miles away at a military base.

            • Kyle

              I agree with many of you. OPSEC unless you are VERY certain that the people that know about your preps will not come to take from you. Have your survival items shipped to one location but store at your bug out retreat. I finally found a company that offers an OPSEC way to get our food storage. A years worth of food all stacked up on a pallet and wrapped in black plastic. It’s called the CUBE. You can find it at http://www.srmarketplace.com on the special deals page. Don’t know how to cook with food storage? They have some good videos that shows you several recipes. It’s easier than I thought it would be to be prepared, you just have to know where to look.

          • GSM1(SW)

            I like the way you think, count me in!
            Standing by in SC

            • Carolina Girl

              What general part of SC? Midlands by chance?

          • possee

            I agree OQ..

            I live ,as I am sure many do,in an area full of 100% sheep.

            They are either wrapped up in Romney or Obama all the way to their craniums.
            In backyard over the fence discussions they are all looking to the left or right to solve their problems and firmly believe that either will save us..period.

            Never in a lifetime would I approach them on ANY subjects such as we discuss here..

            Fortunately for many of you..you have like minded folks around you..

            Guess I’ll wait this one out til the dust settles..


            • eva

              I agree, where you from?

          • Bulldog

            I have tried all avenues to find local preppers. Everytime I find someone who claims to be a prepper, they turn out to be third eye types or liars. I know a few that are prepping, but nothing that I can count on in a true crisis. I wish I was as lucky as some on here to already have a group, but sadly, most in my area are too caught up in iphones, new cars, credit cards, etc. I too will go it alone until a time I can find true Patriots that have my values and wont rat me out or become a drain on my supplies. I taught my immediate family how to defend and I will drink alot of coffee. maybe catch a little sleep every once in a while after SHTF. If I have enough warning, I will get out of dodge and regroup at an alternate AO until the sun comes out again.
            Good luck to all, it sounds like we will need it soon!

        • Odd Questioner

          There is a partial cure for that…

          …you organize everyone and go scrounging for supplies once it begins, but before it gets too bad.

          The following is going to sound wrong, but honestly, if you really want to survive but most of your neighborhood is not prepped? Well…

          Go to the non-obvious stores as a group. If you can get a distribution warehouse first, go there.

          Your priorities are these, in order:

          * food
          * weapons/ammo (if easily obtainable)
          * hand tools
          * building materials

          Be sure to cover the licence plates on all trucks with something solid, and be sure everyone is armed if possible. Load up on everything once your group is there, and quickly. If you can do it while looking natural and like you’re supposed to be there, do so for as long as you can. Odds are good that if you get in, load up, look normal, and get out within 10 minutes, you’ll be gone before any law enforcement can free itself to arrive.

          As each load arrives in the neighborhood, unload it quickly and send the team back out. Distribute everything quickly and get it all into the homes.

          Don’t hit the same place twice, no matter what.

          Stop if one of two things happen:

          * you run out of unique places close-by to scrounge
          * you come up against armed resistance, roadblocks, etc.


          Yep, it’s immoral as hell. Yep, it’s even criminal if you think about it.

          However, if we’re talking a true SHTF event going down, your neighbors will be grateful for doing it.

          • JustMe

            The nieghbors you help do this may be the ones to eventually turn on you…

            • Odd Questioner

              Point is, they may be more likely to turn on you (and far sooner) if you don’t.

              Which would you rather have:

              A) a team of neighbors that see civilization collapsing and begins to work together immediately, commandeering from corporate-owned stores and warehouses before the criminals and gangs do

              B) a collection of separate households, all eyeing each other with increasing ignorance, envy and suspicion as the food soon runs out.

              The sooner you work together, the sooner you can become a team, and then a community.

              Here’s the trick: You don’t just rely on the early scrounge-fest to keep everyone fed and warm. You take the time to teach them how to forage. You take advantage of any giveaways/relief efforts the dying government may hand out. You aggressively seek out and collect livestock together (even if that ‘livestock’ consists of rats and captured pigeons – protein is friggin’ protein!). You work together to keep the closest water sources safe and clean, teaching each other how to filter the stuff to make it potable.

              Once things are in full swing, you work together to go hunt down seeds for future planting, weapons/ammo to defend yourselves, set up outhouses, work on local defenses, and start making room to grow stuff later on.

              The more you work together, the more everyone realizes (one way or the other) that working together is pretty much the only way to survive.

              Collapse isn’t going to be pretty. Anyone trying to sell you on some romantic cabin-in-the-woods bullshit is either playing you, or will be among the first to die. If you think that you will magically become the new king of the post-collapse world because you got a closet full of gold, guns, and toilet paper? You may want to sit back and rethink shit. People are way too dynamic for that, and they aren’t going to automatically look to you for leadership and guidance just because you got more food and bullets than they do.

              And yeah – we’re *all* going to have to do things that are considered criminal and extremely wrong. However, I’d rather do these things to dying corporations in the last gasps of modern civilization, than do it to my neighbors… and more importantly, I’d rather have my neighbors direct that scrounging energy towards those same dying entities, than direct it towards my house. The one and only trick is to get everyone working together, and to continue working together.

          • WeeVoiceInTheWilderness

            Sure wish you were / are in my neck of the woods. Immoral, unethical ~ call it down-right ‘wrong’. These words will fall quickly by the wayside when it’s a war-zone… something we can only pray doesn’t come to pass, but if (IF) it does then it will (WILL) be chaos. It will be survival of the smartest. Do you still shutter; that’s my biggest wall to over-come. I can run my head through many tragic events, but always shutter with a great sadness. Guess I’m just gonna be a female no matter how hard I harden myself.

            • Odd Questioner

              That is, unfortunately, the whole point.

              10 years after collapse, it won’t matter who was right or wrong… it will only matter if you survived, and if you did it without hurting innocent individuals.

              I figure it’s a hell of a lot more moral to go and empty a few corporation-owned stores early on, than have all of your neighbors robbing each other (and you!) later.

            • Odd Questioner

              I do want to mention one more thing.

              You’re not the only one who shudders at the thought. Personally, I hope and pray it never comes to that. I fervently hope that the can gets kicked down the road for at least another 40-50 years or more before civilization starts collapsing completely – because by then odds are good that I’ll be comfortably dead of old age.

              On the other hand, I cannot shake the conclusion that it will probably go sour a whole lot sooner.

              Personally, I think it sucks. I find myself envying the unholy crap out of my Grandmother and how she lived. She was born in 1917 on a farm in the middle of nowhere, and passed away in her home in late 2007. In between, the closest she came to SHTF was the Great Depression, and judging by what she had told of it, it wasn’t all that bad; civilization was still perfectly intact, and everyone automatically worked together. We don’t have that feeling or institutional camaraderie anymore.

              I get the creepy feeling that what we’re about to see is going to kill a shitload of humanity. It will destroy a lot of what I know and love about the human race, and all of our accomplishments.

              Surviving it will require that those who survive do the unthinkable. I’d rather it get directed as soon-to-be-dead corporate entities than at each other, you know?

            • Gods Creation

              OQ says

              “I get the creepy feeling that what we’re about to see is going to kill a shitload of humanity. It will destroy a lot of what I know and love about the human race, and all of our accomplishments. ”

              OQ, I think you may be right about the first part, but the part of humanity that gets killed off will be the worst of it.

              It is my HOPE that what we know and love about our human brothers will be magnified and preserved by the death of corporate reliance, not destroyed.

              WeeVoice, we all shutter at what we can imagine. What worries me is the things we can not imagine. You will find your strength when it is needed.

            • JayJay

              We females have come through many hard times in a crunch–don’t underestimate your strength.

          • delr

            yes it is CRIMINAL.apparently; you don’t have trouble sleeping with this idea.the gov steals enough. now we gotta worry about you?

            • Odd Questioner

              Unless you’re a corporation and shit is meeting fan, you have nothing to worry about from me.

          • Anonymous

            I’m sorry, but you’re completely wrong! Two wrongs never make a right. If you have to resort to the same tactics as those the rest of us have to defend against, then what makes you any better than them?!?!

            • Odd Questioner

              You’re not understanding this, are you?

              I’ve explained it (I hope?) sufficiently up there. You don’t go attacking individuals, you instead take what’s left from the excess just before it goes down the drain.

            • Prepared Pastor

              I would like to think I am better than others, but I would be lying to myself. History shows once people band together during scarcity they will soon be raiding one another if only to keep their children from starving. The belief that ‘we’ are better than ‘them’ can help rationalize any behavior.

              What if ‘they’ once worked for the government or banksters or didn’t work at all and lived off welfare? What if ‘they’ stole their provisions directly or by charging them on credit cards and not paying? Why should ‘they’ be rewarded for bad behavior while my family starves? See how easy it is?

            • Odd Questioner


              I understand easily.

              OTOH, one has to draw the line at individuals/families. Raiding what’s left of stores and warehouses, sure – those items are owned by an entity that isn’t even human, but is comprised of a board of directors.

              People and families? Sharp line to cross there.

            • Prepared Pastor

              So it’s OK if you steal from my business, but not my home? Businesses (corporate or not) are ultimately owned by individuals. Maybe you should discuss this with a Native American since they own everything that isn’t already stolen.

            • Odd Questioner

              So you own Safeway, Wal-Mart, Krogers, Home Depot, Rite Aid… ?

            • Gods Creation

              I agree with both diametrically opposed viewpoints.

              The corp HAS declared war on the People and is waging it through unlawfully established monopolies and perpetuities (private corporations that never die).

              The line in the sand is very clear. Corporations MUST die, not partially, but entirely. There is no other way for the People to regain control than to kill the current controller.

              A private corporation held by an individual is insured against such things. They have sold out to limited liability, thus everything their “corp” holds is NOT their PRIVATE property.

              If you own a business under privilege of the corp and operated under limited liability, you have no claim to the property it holds.

              If you own and operate a legitimate and lawful business under your full personal liability, you have a claim on all of it.

              There are many corps, but very few legitimate businesses where the owner is liable for his acts.

              While I don’t think I will venture into the area of any big stores during a collapse, I do not condemn those who take back a little of what has been stolen from them.

              That can be expanded to include abandoned homes and land wherever it is to be found. People who steal from the collapsing fictions are not breaking the law. Even though they may not be aware of it, they are helping to eliminate the ultimate threat by RECLAIMING it’s resources for the People.

              You may be right to stay away from the places where looting is likely, but at the same time you must give the looters credit for directly attacking the enemy of the people even if they don’t realize it.

            • JayJay

              Anon…folks –good, loving, considerate christians–will do anything to feed their young.
              I Timothy 5:8….Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
              At what juncture do you think God addressed this message?
              The beginning?? But, what if it was mid-disaster or even toward the end??

          • NCClyde

            No, OQ, You’re the one who doesn’t seem to understand.

            If someone(you and your neighbors) are willing to go take what you want from “soon-to-be-dead corporate entities,” you will then be going to the mom and pop store, and then to the house in the next neighborhood to get what you want.

            Also, you neglected to specify why all of you would be armed. Would it simply be to protect yourselves from others like you, or would it be to do eliminate resistance from either the employees/owners of the place you’re looting or LEOs, if they arrive before you expect?

            People like you and your unprepared neighbors are who we all need to be watching out for, and why the rest of us need to be armed and ready to defend our family and property.

            I don’t expect you and your neighbors will last very long when TSHTF.

            • Odd Questioner


              “mom and pop” does not equal “corporate entities” – you’re making things up now.

              You go armed to keep everyone else from taking the stuff on your way home.

            • FEMACAMPER

              OQ is right that morals will be fluid in a collapse scenario. To tell yourself otherwise is fantasy.

            • John W.

              If you are going to “liberate”items you dont own as the term for hiding the act of theft was called in the sixties you better be quick because most stores will be empty in the first two hours when people realize just how serious the situation is.

            • JayJay

              As to add to this topic; wouldn’t it be great when this collapse begins, that those board members, CEOs, owners of Safeway, Wal-Mart, Krogers, Home Depot, Rite Aid … open the doors and distribute one way or another and prevent looting??
              JMO…amazing grace.

          • Bulldog

            i have a better plan. Prep now and when the SHTF you dont even have to leave the nouse. Then you dont run the risk of having to hurt an inocent to acquire more supplies. Alot of folks will have the idea to run out and raid a few corp type places. That is when the real SHTF. Stay away from those places and protect the preps you should already have.

            • Odd Questioner

              That’s the thing… I’m prepped (and many of my own neighbors are as well).

              OTOH, I was responding to the gent who mentioned that while he’s prepped, his neighbors are not.

            • Star

              If you are talking about raiding corporate entities, you must live in the city or suburbs. I live in a rural community with only mom & pop businesses. We have a group aiming at making the community self-sufficient as in pioneer days, even to the point of using oxen for plowing. I would rather grow biodiesel for that. Anyway, it should not be necessary to hurt anyone except in self-defense if the community can survive like they did before corporate entities became so important.

          • JayJay

            OQ..this has been discussed.. you better have heavy machinery, front end loader, big tractor, torch is good, because you have to get INSIDE for that fork lift to tear that door off the hinges or track and it’s metal.
            Now if you have personal trucks and not semis to load, just breaking in by entrance door will suffice.
            Locate all manufacturing plants of food and supplies early.
            Bowling Green even has a Walmart warehouse I’ve seen off interstate.

        • US Centurion

          I have a wonderfully safe neighborhood, for now, it has a large number of senior citizens. Old school people who are prepared but they are old. Some are some really tough SOB’s but it concerns me. Another asset is a large number of them have engineering or medical backrounds. Age is a concern though, heavy work will be difficult.

          • delr

            mechanical advantage. we old farts think outside the box.

        • Be informed

          @ Barlow. I agree with you for two very good reasons. First TOO MANY people are all talk and tell you that they are preparing and in reality are going to depend on the people that are, and turn on you like a snake if you don’t support them. Next is that TOO MANY of your neighbors will have friends and family all over the place that they will INVITE to share the bounty of those that have spent so much time, money, and effort to store up for their families. Trust is something that is very difficult to come by.

          I would like to quote something I read, while cynical, really exemplifies TRUE life.
          “Friends” are about as rare as cool water in a hot desert. Anybody who tells you that they have “lots of friends” is a fool. We have many Acquaintances, “disguised” as friends, but real friends: next to none at all. If you don’t believe me you will learn for yourself: at some point you are going to test your friends; you may be in real need of something which will mean them spending time, concern, money, or someone special kind of sacrifice, on your behalf. Just watch how these “friends” will evaporate overnight! You will be disillusioned, embittered. What horrifies me is that you find your “closest buddy” disintegrate at only the barest sacrifice demanded of him; he is not being asked to give you a pile of money or put his life at risk; often the “sacrifice” involved is something, at least in my eyes, of no great monumental deprivation to the person concerned. This is by the author: James F. Cullinan.

          This little paragraph shows that most of your neighbors, not all of them of course, are more than capable of abandoning you and not even being there for you and your survival group during the onset of preparation. The simple advice here is to choose carefully and don’t openly trust people until they give you a real good reason to. If someone can turn on you during “normal” times, just imagine during SHTF times, even when their own life is depending on people working together.

          • Gods Creation

            That’s my philosophy. I have no real friends, only people I know and Family. The ones I consider true friends I also consider family.

            On the other hand, the people I know do have a true friend in me, providing the sacrifice required is reasonable. A true friend would never ask you to make an unreasonable sacrifice.

            Judge your “friends” by what they ask of you, not by what they do for for you.

          • Barlow

            @ be informed: Agreed and thanks.

          • John W.

            When I read some of the posts on this site I usually think that there are a lot of arm chair warriors posting or if they run their mouths like they do on here revealing what they have they won’t last two days if the SdoesHTF. I for one hope it does not. I have no desire to live like an animal.

        • ARIZONA

          THE LORD our GOD,says america has become so sinful,he’s going to take america back to the starting point, only this time it won’t be allowed to rise again…..

          • Gods Creation

            Did he send you an email or talk to you on the phone?

            I don’t think taking America back to the starting point is a bad idea. Nor is it a good thing for something so corrupted as the United States government to ever rise again.

            We agree on those things, but I seriously doubt God has spoken to you about what he has in store for the rest of us thus you should probably quit quoting Him.

          • JayJay

            You know what Billy Graham said??
            If God doesn’t punish America, he owes Sodom and Gomorrha an apology!!!

        • JayJay

          Barlow..I bet I have more mouths liking to run than you..I’m regretting telling just two.
          I stopped informing or searching for like minds 18 months ago.

      2. Unreconstructed Southron

        Your best hope; their worst fear.

      3. peteropolis

        Just a friendly reminder not to vote! As I always see posts about who to vote for and who not to vote for, I believe this applies to voting perfectly. As I hope we all know there is no real left or right and its just a long running game that too many play.

        “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” ― Albert Einstein

        • omegaman

          Absolutely nothing to do with the article.

        • Gods Creation

          Just don’t cast a vote until someone on the ballot is worth voting for. That will likely be sometime after the collapse and the bankster hanging festivities.

          • Soul of the Troll

            Vote to protect the Constitution. Preserve, Defend and Protect it.

            • Gods Creation

              No one on the ballot is qualified to do that, so a vote either way is a vote against the Constitution and the People.

              That’s what most do not understand. Sometimes silence is the loudest sound.

              What if only 10% of the people remained dumb enough to participate in the Sheep Games this November? Would “the imposter” of his mirror image Romney be able to claim a mandate with 10 million votes?


              A vote in the current political climate is a show of support for the criminals most complain are robbing them blind and taking away their rights.

              This is an election. Your best choice is to elect NOT to vote or provide further support for the criminals that are destroying this country through a captured political system and organized crime.

              The fact is, if you vote in it your support it. That’s the question this year. Do you support the corp, or would you like to see things change?

              The change will come when you stop voting for perpetuating the problem.

          • Me

            To not vote is the same as voting for the other candidate.

            • Prepared Pastor

              Amen. If one truly has no preference then don’t vote, but as my 87 year-old Aunt Spinster will tell you – ‘If you wait for the perfect man, you will be waiting your whole life.’

        • Nunjobizness

          We vote and they run roughshod over us anyway, we don’t vote and they run roughshod over us too.

          I feel that if I vote, it gives me bitching rights so I’m going to hold my nose and vote like hell this Nov.

          • Gods Creation

            Nunjo, you will lose your bitching rights by voting for someone who is actively trying to take them away.

            If I had to choose between eating a cow patty and horse pile, I think I would go fishing instead. Just because there are two bad candidates does not mean there is no good choice. Not supporting either candidate is a far better choice than supporting one of them.

            Perhaps you need to pick up a pole on election day rather than casting an electronic ballot that shows support for the enemy. It would go a lot farther than casting a vote so you can bitch about the results.

        • kynase

          I am waiting to hear this speech. That will be the man or woman I vote for-

          My fellow Americans. As I peer into this crowd I see citizens in pain, hurting for a change they were promised. I see parents struggling to make ends meet. I see college graduates unable to find jobs. I see mom and pop businesses collapsing because of an unstable economy. I see our youth unable to dream the American dream. I see a once powerful, God-fearing nation, losing faith in their leaders and in each other. I see sadness when I should see hope.

          I am here today to not sugar coat anything for you. I am going to tell you the truth. It is a hard pill to swallow but get ready folks, because I am going to deliver a much needed bucket of honesty.

          Has your government let you down? Yes. There have been too many cooks in the kitchen and those cooks have been greedy and money hungry. We have abused our power and forgotten why we are in office. We have voted for bills we did not understand or believe in. We have put into effect laws that are not good for this country. We have bailed out irresponsible banks that knowingly created a worldwide collapse of economy. We have taken advantage of American tax dollars and spent it on things that were just ridiculous. We have wasted a lot of precious time, money and American lives on pushing our ideals and our philosophy of democracy on the rest of the world that we forgot to make sure that business at home was in order first. As a government, we are supposed to work for the people and in many instances we have unfortunately worked against them.

          But the finger doesn’t just point to the government, it points to you and me, the everyday American citizen. Many of us have gotten too lazy and forgotten what it means to be an American. We want every convenience afforded to man even if we can’t afford it. We will run up our credit cards so we can get fancy phones and cars, big houses full of furniture, elaborate vacations and the newest in electronic ingenuity. We want a free meal, a free bed, and we expect it now. We’ve got people who have been on welfare for most of their lives because it is easier than getting a job. There are citizens that get work just long enough so that they can get on unemployment again. We’ve got children who fail high school that think they should automatically be allowed into college for free. We’ve got women having babies just so they can get more government aid. We’ve got men who have children who refuse to take care of them. We’ve got immigrants that want to move to this country illegally and not pay taxes but get all the free support they can. We’ve got people who refuse to take care of themselves but when they get sick they expect someone else to pay for their medical bills. We’ve got people complaining about their leaders that won’t vote. We’ve got domestic terrorists called gangs that think it is okay to shoot innocent people and sell their illegal drugs while promoting prostitution. We’ve got killers and rapists roaming our streets because the jails are full. We still squabble about race, religion and sexual preference when we should be demanding an end to killers and rapists and terrorists.

          There is no doubt in my mind that many of the citizens are as corrupt as the government and if our government is for the people and by the people, is there really any surprise that it has not been effective? There is no accountability and there has not been for quite some time. This country has become stagnant and a little bit spoiled rotten. But no more! We are going to put an end to that today! Today is the day that America becomes great again!

          Let me give you some more truth as to what is going to happen. We are on the brink of a Great Depression, far worse than the previous. The economy is going to collapse. Inflation will occur. Banks will be short on money because many of them will have no money in their reserves. There could be days when the electricity does not turn on and when the water does not flow. And because of the drought that has been ravaging our Midwestern states, we will experience a shortage of food supplies. It is gonna get real tough for the next few years. There is no stopping what is to come. This government could, at best, prolong the inevitable for a few more months, maybe even a year, but it is coming and that is the truth.

          In order to pull through this as a UNITED States of American, each of us must do our part. We must be prepared and be ready for these hard times. As a country we will have to pull together, help our neighbors out. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Be a part of your community as opposed to an island to yourself. Support one another. Take a slice of your bread and give it to your brother. Take a shirt from your closet and hand it to a cold stranger. We should all refuse to see any American suffer because of lack of food or shelter. But we, the people, must work together.

          This government, this new and improved and selfless government that is for and by the people will do everything to make sure that no person suffers. We will be in direct coordination with local governments in order to help keep the citizens safe. We will not tolerate unnecessary violence from those who aim to steal or hurt their fellow Americans. Rapists and killers, mark my words, your days are numbered. Members of gangs, you are considered domestic terrorists and will be treated as such.

          It is time we take back our country. It is time we hold our leaders and ourselves accountable. It is time for America to be great again! It is time to see hope in your eyes. Let’s not talk about change. Let’s do it. God bless America!

          ***I don’t know if I will ever hear a presidential candidate say any of this, but I want them to. I would really like some honesty (sorry it was so long)***

          • Rick:)

            Dream on. He’ll be dead before he clears the podium.

            • Rick:)

              Also; Stop waiting for some magical politician to come along and make it all goo-goo. Politicians are egotistical narcisists with an urge to tell others what to do.
              They are a goddamn scourge and we would be better without them, but to many pups look for a pack leader.
              Are you on this website because your looking for a leader, or are you an Alpha thats fiqured out something the other meatheads havn’t?
              I, for one, don’t need a mommy or a daddy, or some damn pol telling when and where to take a dump.
              Government IS the problem. Emasculated males are a problem. Reset soon. Please.
              Thumbs down away, crybabies.

            • kynase

              Though I applaud your negative enthusiasm, it seems misplaced. I don’t need someone to tell me when and where to “take a dump” either, and what I want is not a politician…I want a leader. People yearn for a leader. Maybe you are a great leader of your own right and thus do not care for those in leadership positions. However, great leaders, in my book, do for the people. They lead by example and get in the trenches. I also do not believe that government is the problem. That’s like saying guns are the problem. No…people are the problem…people who can’t see past themselves, who are more interested in fame and fortune than helping their fellow man. I am no longer interested in those with impressive last name or a fancy resume. I want the middle class American who has had to work their ass off and was never given anything. I want the man/woman that pulled up their own bootstraps and has callouses on their hands. This is not some magical politician. This is the epitomy of a real American. And I am so sorry Rick that you cannot see the America that I know is still there. Maybe one day you can remove that anger from your eyes and find it again.

            • PO'd Patriot

              Kynase, as soon as you shed those rose colored glasses, maybe YOU’LL BEGIN TO SEE.

            • Rick:)

              @kynase. I was ready with a long winded response.
              Don’t wish to inflict more pain, or step on your rose colored glasses.
              I’ve seen things. I’ve learned things. I recognise the world for what it is. You obviously have not and do not.
              The End. (of this post)

            • Rick:)

              P’od, Now that’s freaky! look at the time stamps!

            • PO'd Patriot

              Rick:), eerie…well with the fouteen thumbs up we garnered between the two of us, the fifteen people that thumbed us down can sit on them and twirl. ‘Course two of them are going to have to share.

          • TheFulishBastid

            Well, you got the speech locked down, so when do we get to vote for you?

          • old southern man

            It will never get that far. UN troops or ours will be present, trying to take control soon as SHTF. We will have to deal with that situation first.

            • snowmover

              you must be fu–ing kidding.
              It already is that far southern boy.
              911–inside job
              Arab spring–American takeover of oil states–trying to one-up China and Russia, and only pissing them off even more than selling them useless treasuries.
              ( which by the way, no one buying anymore except the money printing fed )

            • Beer Drinking Pork Eating Infidel

              I’ve painted several surplus helmets from the Army/Navy store baby blue for target practice.

          • Boss Hog

            Thats been tryed already, well pretty close anyway by the good Doctor Ron Paul, and it would seem that Americans just dont want anyone actually following the Constitution and cleaning up the mess. We are too comfortable and self centered with entitlements, somwhere along the way we forgot who we are. As you all know that is going to come to an abrupt end prolly sooner than any of us is prepped for. I enjoyed the article and couldnt agree more. thumbs up, talk to your neigbors you never know who will open up and join forces with you. Unless your a Special forces operator and even then your not going to make it on your own no matter how prepped you are , everyone needs to sleep sometime. Your gonna need others and they are gonna need you.

        • Soul of the Troll

          That is such bull shit! Take your meds and try to get in touch with the real world. You are either a real retard, or some troll from an enemy of America trying to confuse folks with your commie crap.

          If there is no Marxism vs. Freedom, explain the 100 million killed by Stalin/Mao, the Korean War, and Viet Nam.

          • peteropolis

            Sorry Soul I dont have an meds to take, and am not an enemy of America or a “commie” trying to confuse. Just someone promoting actual Freedom in a land of slaves. Dont Vote! 🙂

        • Smokey

          Vote to get the incumbent President out. Don’t delude yourself that third-party votes, protest votes, or staying home will do anything but ensure a Marxist with nothing to lose during a second term is in office. The country can’t take another 4 years of this demagogue.

          • peteropolis

            Or another four years of any president for that matter, they’re all the same, always have been always will be.

            • Gods Creation

              In MY political system I am the King, the President, the Congress, and the Senate.

              Just because someone claims to be my leader does not make them my leader. If they don’t believe me, all they need to do is come by my house and try to lead me where I choose not to go.

              The corp may collapse, and I may feel some of it, but I will lead myself out of it because no one else is competent to do so.

              Somehow I know that the Almighty will provide when provisions are NEEDED (not just wanted). I am as sure of that as I am that the corp will take away what the Almighty provides if I do not defend it in His name.

            • John W.

              GWBush was the biggest asshat ever elected. Until Obama.

        • Star

          Every disallusioned citizen should write in their choice rather than fail to vote. That would show the two parties neither give us our choice. Failing to vote shows only apathy.

          • Gods Creation

            Failing to vote shows you do not consent to being raped and pillaged by a corrupted criminal enterprise anymore.

            Whether you want to believe it or not, silence is you loudest voice when dealing with the corp.

            • Me

              To not vote for the best man is not the way to go unless you think this is just a game and can’t wait for SHTF.

      4. lee

        luckily, my step dad and step brother have their own land and houses running on propane with all the fish you can eat in the gulf about 15 minutes away.

        so, if things get real bad in Houston, i have a safe zone.

        will be interesting to see if my step-dad will let my dad and step-mom in. guess i’ll see just how much they really like each other.

      5. peter parker

        Absolutely, the community will have to come together for self defense. That is one reason I have come to prefer the concept of a small self-contained community over being relatively alone on farm acreage. The disadvantage is not being able to have chickens and goats (my top two). However, that may change after SHTF! Many have a small garden, ours is medium, and I’m sure that all the flower gardeners would quickly switch to vegetable gardening. We have a diverse background of people with various skills that by necessity would be bound together. Medical professionals, engineers, welders, plumbers, carpenters, builders, military rambo types (especially handy initially for setting up perimiter security, roving patrols, comms, etc). That doesn’t mean one has to give up all ones preps. I really like the idea of some acreage but cannot conceive of how I would defend it against a determined gang who would not have any regard for civilized behaviour. I’m open to ideas of how not to get looted, burned up, and so on. So for now I’m working within the community, volunteering, networking, collecting humint, prepping and reading SHFTplan daily for ideas. Best to all, for me the numbers do not add up, it cannot continue as it has been.

        • Kevin2

          Four 1/4 acre lots if connected are one acre. I think mini farms will develop in a SHTF situation.

          • Odd Questioner

            One caveat:

            This is true for empty lots, but four 1/4 acre lots with homes on them will barely give you 1/3 of an acre to grow something on.

            • Kevin2

              Well a .25 acre lot is roughly 10,000 sq/ft. A home might have a footprint of 2000 sq/ft and driveway will add another 1000. That gives you 7000 sq/ft per home or 28000 sq/ft total. Knock off 8000 sq/ft or so and you have a full half acre. You can grow a lot on a half acre.

              You can farm that front lawn. I had a great uncle that immigrated to the US about 1915 from Italy. Uncle Nuzio said in very broken english, “You no grow if you don’t eat”. He practiced just that too and grew organically long before the term was coined using chicken droppings, table scraps and yard waste as fertilizer. The man hunted rabbits and took out two shotgun shells. If he did not bring home two rabbits he cursed the shell manufacturer for not putting enough pellets in the shell.

            • Smokey

              With a community, you can find the acreage you need to farm and farm there, not in your backyards. Kitchen gardens are OK, but you need to provide tons of vegetables and proteins for each person each year, as well as a surplus for bad crop years, and to trade for goods and meat animals.

        • 95lb german k9

          get a AR with a sliding stock! google [bump fire] legal machine gun,, get a 100 round drum,,nothing WILL get close,, have a nice day>>

          • 95lb german k9

            spell chek lol

          • twistokane

            until you run into someone with bigger and better.

          • FEMACAMPER

            Automatic rifles are not water hoses, Rambo.

        • BlueCollar Scholar

          Keep one thing in mind they are called a gang for a reason! Usually very unorganized(this is not organized crime)second no training or rank structure. So these are HUGE advantages. Lastly inspite of the claims very few if any gangs will leave the city to roam the countryside looking for farms to attack. In a SHTF situation if you haven’t bugged out early traveling in the open out of your typical AO will get someone killed! Sniping will be the order of the day, both for defense and offense!

          • Steam Table Hero

            This is way, way off the mark for many/most urban gangs. They are in fact HIGHLY organized and gang members perform SPECIFIC functions within the gang, with division of labor based on natural talents and inclinations.

            If you think you will be facing a bunch of soccer hooligans when the SHTF you are going to be outgunned, outsmarted, out manuveured and out of luck. Take a look at what law enforcement journals have to say about urban gang structures: you are 180 out of sync.

            Best answer? What this article proposes. I’ve thought about this a lot and I think the most viable alternative is to gather enough folks that can be reasonably maintained for a few weeks, take command (you can do that if you’re the one with the solar desalinator and beans) and get a perimeter established. The idea of waiting 90 days to organize seems absurd to me. You will be dead in 21 if you don’t have help.

            Organize our neighbors, then your block then the next block as soon as you can. You will likely be the only one to have thought of any of this so you will sound like a fucking general compared to the copier salesman and junior high school coaches in the group.

            Tell them they can save themselves but it’s got to be together, then post them. I know I don’t have all the solutions but I will look like the Shell Answer Man if it all falls apart. Take the reins, be fair, be ruthless if you have to, and try to hold on. Be a point of order and law in the middle of a shit storm.

            • John W.

              They like tosend little kids out as scouts. Little kids can also climb like monkeys and fit through small openings. They also cause people to relax their guard. Then they are toast as many little kids are also used by gangs to do hits as they get off with not much punishment. Beware little kids selling magazine subscriptions who try real hard to get a look in your house to see what you have. They send big kids back when you are not home.

        • FEMACAMPER

          FERFAL seems to be reveed here. He says it’s not as simple as city=bad, country =good. Apparently in Argentina when an isolated farm was set upon, the raiders often tortured the homesteaders for hours or days. Rural areas can be a double-edged sword. OTOH, America’s “diversity” will really show how much of an “asset” it is.

          • John W.

            A semi rural area where everyone knows everyone else and most of the homes have good sized yards but are within sight of each other and most people are serious gardeners is the ideal It also needs to be off the beaten track but not isolated just not well traveled. If you can find or live in a place like that you should do well.

      6. jp

        I think that the ideas and suggestions that Survivor Mike touched on are great ideas, but probably won’t work where I live! My neighbors-most are decent people, but they are totally clueless! This area is going to be hazardous if SHTF and I’m an hour outside of a major metro area….wish we were further out-like in the middle of nowhere! I think that we’ll have to take care of things ourselves.

        • FEMACAMPER

          Loose, uneasy alliances will be formed.

        • FEMACAMPER

          Fantasy. Out of necessity such a group would be hunted and killed. One thing they always have working against them is that they all want to be boss and constantly fight to get there. Even Tyson or Ali didn’t stay undefeated forever. These assholes might as well be carrying a neon sign announcing that they are out to get you.

      7. Burt the Brit

        Evening all

        My worry, with prepping being in its infancy over here is that I would be a target rather than an allie when it all goes pear shaped. Mention prepping here and you get the reaction you guys would have got ten years ago. Not good

        Take care

        • Gods Creation

          Better to not mention it at all, either here or there.

      8. SterlingSilver

        The tragedy in Aurora should be a wake up call on multiple levels. Whoever the “masked gunman” may be (UN soldiers, US soldiers, cops, deputies, looters, thieves, gangs, etc), the point remains that an unarmed populace (passive movie goers being entertained and relying on all other citizens to follow the law [i.e. firearm bans in municipalities]) are mere victims. I can’t go down like that. I will strive, at the expense of being called an idiot an over-reactor, to coalesce like minded individuals around me that I can rely on. And as this post states, it must entail everything from security, to gardening, to basic life support functions like sanitation and clean fresh water. This is really the only viable solution to handle what is coming.

        While what happened at that movie theater is an absolute tragedy and I pray and hope the best for the victims and their families, I think it serves as a scaled down model of our society when we put trust in the hands of government to make our life and death decisions for us…especially when it very well could be those in “government” who are wearing the mask, bullet proof vest, and carry the AR, 12 ga, and .40

      9. Mustangbob

        As I mentioned in the past, I have a neighbor that once said ” Keep prepping Bob, and when the shit hits the fan I will just come take your stuff.” I just want to thank him for the warning. I wish I lived in an area with like minded folkes. One is a PA, one is a RN, one is a meat cutter, one owns a lake house at Lake of the Ozarks, one is a weatherman, no nevermind, scratch that last one, he is always wrong. lol

        • AZ Ready

          You probably have a short list like I do!

        • Rick:)

          I’ve heard that one too many times.

      10. Widow

        Hi all – I have been reading here for several months now and this post has prompted me to finally write.

        My husband of 30 years died 2 days before Christmas. We had no kids. So now it is just me and my 2 Goldens.

        I am pretty prepared – I could bug in for 6 mo. to a year. I have weapons but not proficient… yet.

        Most of my neighbors are not of the prepping mindset.

        Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am not going to bug out – no place to go. “Suburbia” is home.

        • Rick:)

          Sorry for your loss.
          Please don’t take this wrong. But deep inside, you know what you have to do. It’s hard to go through life alone, good times or bad. It’s going to be awkward after all these years, but you can do it. Peace

        • Highspeedloafer

          Hi Widow, my best advice is for you to get out and meet some other people. Have you tried finding like minded people in a church setting or anything like that? Even as a visitor in a new church you could express your concerns and see if there are some folks who feel like you do. It may seem like a small step, but you gotta start somewhere.

        • Widow

          Thank you Rick:) and Highspeedloafer!

          Deep inside I know I am still here for a reason and that reason is not to cower in fear. So I will do the best I can and have no regrets.

          While I have not gone church visiting, that gives me an idea. I live a couple of blocks from an old fashioned hardware store and the family that owns it is very active in church and have known me for over 20 years. I think approaching them would be a good idea.

          Thank you both!

        • John W.

          If you read the book one second after you know that one of the Goldens in the book saved their asses and eventually both ended up saving others as meat on the paw. Really good book and the two dogs in it really get a grip on your imagination. If you have not read it you should get a copy and read it. While fiction it lays out a SHTF in a very believable manner.

      11. Chef Nunzio

        I fully agree that community is vital to surviving in a shtf scenario. I have been building relationships with my neighbors for years now and we are all on the same page. I am very lucky but at the same time I have been working on our relationships for a long time. On another note, I have an uncle in Sanford, Fla. who is a firefighter. I think his title is “Sargent of Arms” but not sure. Anyway, he said that he has seen maps that has Sanford sectioned off into a grid with 24 lines and that there are 24 SWAT teams set up to be put along the grid for an anticipated riot for Treyvon Martin. He also said that the back of Zimmermans head was cracked open and his nose was broken because his team treated the wounds. Off topic I know but I though that I’d share with you all.

        • Chef Nunzio

          I have run the multiple attackers scenario through my head many, many times and I feel very, very secure for several reasons at my house if a gang where to come. I could give you guys a list of reasons but to name a few: my neighbors would shoot from several angles if needed, German Shepard and a big ass Chesapeake Bay Retriever, force multipliers, only one way up to our up stairs,and blah, blah, blah. HOWEVER! If there was a gang that wanted to get into anyone’s house, all that they would have to do is light a fire or throw some Molotov cocktails through a few window and then your screwed. Or at least it works in the movies every time. How would you defend against several fire bombs coming in several windows at the same time??

          • 95lb german k9

            bump fire,,, AR/MP .223,,youtube it

          • slingshot

            Chef Nunzio.
            There is a company that installs a filament over the glass and it can absorb some major hits. Sorry I can not remember their name. Duct tape can do in a pinch preventing an internal fire. Remove shrubs around your home. I do have plans to install a sprikler system over the roof of my home incase the next door neighbor goes up in flames.
            I have fired a combination of 2 Ak 47’s with drums mounted in a stand. Similar to 2 Ruger 10/22 rifles on the open market. Impressive. A definte mob control if you have a good field of fire.
            Hope that helps.

          • YankeeDoodle

            A 308 with a Leupold 3.5 to 10 variable power scope will take em out at up to 600 yards. Don’t let them get near your house.100 to 300 yards open up with your AR 15.Don’t be hesitant about taking them out it is either you or them!

            • Kevin2


              Read Surviving In Argentina. It’s about the economic collapse that took place there over a decade ago. That 600 yr rifle is good for game but your threats will come much closer. The criminal gangs ambush the unsuspecting when they are otherwise occupied. Your car has a flat tire? Look over your shoulder while you repair it.

            • FEMACAMPER

              Bad guys always make sure they are seen from a distance. a good illustration is in all the karate-Rambo movies where attackers take turns at the good guy and don’t try to overwhelm him.

              Forming a community alliance doesn’t have to mean communal living. The wagon has too many riders today. They will attempt to keep riding.

          • Steam Table Hero

            Check the 3M transparent security adhesive. You can’t throw a cinder block through it. The glass shatters but the adhesive holds it together. It is used in hurricane areas a lot instead of shutters. Bonus: It cuts down on heat so you energy bill is lower even BEFORE the zombies arrive.

            • John W.

              If you can afford them the House Armor windows do real well. You don’t have to change all windows just the ones that are on the front of the house and the most likely attack points. The adhesive sheets also work well.

        • Chef Nunzio

          Not that I care but what was the thumbs down for? Just curious, not going to lose any sleep over it.

          • Prepared Pastor

            There are trolls on here ‘thumb down’ everyone.

            I’ve not done this, but I would think a brick home with a metal roof and metal shutters that close from the inside would help protect against both high-powered rifles and fire bombs.

            All I have are fire extinguishers, perimeter guards, and a LP/OP looking down on the house to shoot anyone who needs it.

            • you don't need to know

              PP, there’s paint out there that eliminates body temp from the drones. Sorry I don’t know the name of it, but it can’t be too hard to find, that will be a huge enemy when the time comes.

            • Chef Nunzio

              Good ideas! Whats an LP/OP?

            • Prepared Pastor

              Listening Post/Observation Post is basically a covered foxhole on the military crest of a hill overlooking whatever you are protecting (in this case my cabin). It’s function is to listen and watch for threats unimpeded, give early warnings via secure communications, and fire upon attackers if necessary.

            • Jesus Christ is Son of God


            • Anton Hackl

              LP = listening post

              OP = observation post

              Basically, it refers to a well hidden or concealed location allowing one or several armed individuals to listen and observe or monitor a given area that’s deemed critical for security reasons.

            • PO'd Patriot

              PP, maybe fire bombs, but I’ve seen multiple vids on what .50 cal rounds do to brick and block. Shucks they’d go through my place and kill my dog in the kennel out back of the house.

            • Rick:)

              PP, The crappy thing about the whole scenario is, luck is going play a big part. There are going to numnuts who can’t tie their own shoes, coming through smelling like a rose.
              And some poor bastard’s going to be taken out on the first day, surrounded with everything. ( I hope it’s not me!)
              We can increase the odds of survival, but luck be with you. (or GOD, if that’s your deal, with respect)

            • PO'd Patriot

              Rick I’ll take either to cover my bets.

          • JL

            Could have been an accident. I accidentally thumbs downed someone yesterday.

        • FEMACAMPER

          Any riot will have nothing to do with the thug Treyvon, it will simply be an excuse for lawlessness. That crowd has shown time and again that they have no problem throwing one of their own under the bus for even a slight percieved gain

      12. Joe (another)

        I attend church in a small town. I’ve always suspected that PP was the pastor, but I’m not going to ask until after SHTF.

      13. its not me

        pretty good chance im on my own

        there are a few that might be worth a F…k, but i find i do better on my own.

        if i dont find support I’ll do the job on my own, If i cant stay because no one else decided to prep ( i cant feed them all) I will leave before they know it.

        or take the wake up bullet for them.?..guess its possible

        too dam many sheeple, and its all been designed by our governments and our courts and judicial system..

        no one jumped the guy because were all too scared of the repercussions,,all of which is pedicated by our legal system, they have effectively de-nutted us from being able to take action..most are too scared of the repercussions afterward to make a move on the threat early enough to make a difference.

        it will come down to No Rule Of Law, and probably for a while before the average joe gets the dam message to act, instead of waiting for the other guy to do it.

        • JustMe

          It’s hard to be in a viable group when most of the people you know are in the 55%…That would be most of the people I know…

        • PO'd Patriot

          It’s not me, Don’t worry you’re better off thinking that you are. Anone one else showing up that knows what they’re about you can count as a bonus. My pap always told me, “learn to do it on your own boy cause help just ain’t a’commin’.”

          • John W.

            Fifty cal would be bad enough. How about the 25MM on a Bradley? Too bad the houses here are not constructed like those in Iraq. Stick housees covered with stucco just dont provide much protection.

      14. Heretic

        Multiple booby traps, force multipliers, even rose bushes will help keep people out. Pick up a few cheap, single shot shotguns and some eye screws. Clamped in a vise, they will cover my back door, fire the first shot and warn me of entry.

        • SWIFT

          @Heretic,,,you forgot the string!

        • YankeeDoodle

          A few propane tanks from the barbecue placed at strategic locations with a large bag of nails tied to it will act as a claymore mine. All you have to do is shoot it from a distance (hope you have a scope on your rifle)and it will spill out shrapnel at about 140 degrees.Don’t fight their fight, make em fight your fight.

          • FEMACAMPER

            I was always taught that if you fight your opponent’s fight, you will lose.

      15. matt

        im still new to this site, and i read alot of great ideas, but has anyone tried aquaponic gardening?? iove been researching it for a while now, and its got me really interested, your plants grow twice as fast and still have all the nutrients they need, and well you also have the fish for food too, two birds one stone, i have alot planned out, but need the time and place to set it up, and as for the article, only people i trust so deeply that would be invited in my little circle, i have no trust for just anyone to come sit at my table, there are only a few, very few, that i know that ican trust

        • Genius

          Hi Matt, I built an aquaponic greenhouse and it is awesome! I bought a 50 dollar set of plans and used the info I needed and designed my own. it is an 8×10 greenhouse with a U-shaped trench dug around the inside border. The door of course opens onto the solid section of the U. the trench is 30 inches deep by 32 inches wide and lined with pond liner. it holds about 500 gallons in the fish trough. the upper edges of the trough are lined with 2×6 boards where the pond liner is secured to and the hinged lids made of plywood rest. Then I built an upper trough out of 4×4 and 2×4 frame with plywood inner again lined with pond liner for the growing troughs. The upper troughs are 1 foot deep and as wide as I could make them comfortably. The lower fish trough has a submersible pump that circulates the water up into the upper growing troughs at one end then at the other end has a 1 inch pvc pipe 90 degreed into it where I want the water level and the water just drains by gravity back into the lower tank. I have a 4 outlet air pump with 4 large airstones spaced along the lower trough to give the fish air. I made the growing rafts out of 2 inch styrofoam the kind with foil on one side which faces up to help reflect sun on the plants. After drilling out the holes for the net pots I coated the inside of the holes with aquarium grade silicone to prevent styrofoam from flaking off into the water and taped the outside raft edges with waterproof tape for the same reason. The upper growing trough is right above the lower fish trough about 30 inches or so to facilitate opening the lids on the fish troughs. This sytem is very space efficient and is better than one kit I saw for 13,000 bux. Being that the fish trough is in the ground it mantains a fairly constant temp. and doesnt freeze as it circulates. Fill it with water (both troughs) and run just enough bleach to sterilize it then add Chlor-AM-X to get rid of the chlorine and chlorates then wait about 10 days and test it for present chloine. If the chlorine is removed add a 2 oz. bottle of ammonium chloride solution (Dr. Tims) then add 1 gallon of nitrifying bacteria to get it started ( aquaticecosystems.com ). test for nitrates and nitrites, you will have a nitrite spike in about a week then after it settles down go ahead and set your plants in. Keep the ph around 7, the bacteria converts nitrites into nitrates and ammonia into nitrites, fish provide the ammonia from then on out. DO NOT add any fertilizers or chemicals whatsoever other than what I just said no matter what any so called expert says! Hydroponics is totally different from aquaponics. All you need is the correct amount of fish to supply your plant food. A rule of thumb is 1 pound of fish per 7 gallons of water. In my system I will use 80 6 inch bluegill fish. Make sure you have the pumps running the whole time you are conditioning the water and always when the fish are in it. A good idea is to have a UPS on the air pump (fish will die fast if the air stops), If you have any questions I will check back, GOOD LUCK!

          • matt

            i like the way you set that up, thanks for the info, no questions for now, i think you covered pretty much everything

          • matt

            i like the video, but as we can see, he doesnt want to include his neighbours, and considering he’s in a somewhat populated area, and that some of his neighbours know about his stuff, sorry to say but that knife wont get him far..

          • John W.

            One of my neighbors has turned their pool into a pond. Said they were just sick of maintaining the pool since the kids left. Not sure if they are raising fish but I sure would be.

        • Josh

          ive been thinking about going the route of aquaponic gardening, there is a video on youtube the guy has everything set up with solar. comepletely self sufficient system. cant beat that!

      16. Anonymous

        Good luck with forming a community. There is so much conceit among the patriot movement as well as the attitude of mistrust that it’s impossible to build a commune of sorts any more. The days have changed, and along with it has come a total change of attitudes among even like-minded people. Unfortunately, this problem will spell our demise if it doesn’t change and fast!

        • HolyCow!

          You are 100% correct, can’t even trust my own children (college education ruined them) let alone relatives or neighbors. I’ve been stabbed by some, mocked by some, and completely ignored by others. Been a prepper since 1998 but was badly injured in 2006, was wiped out of my savings, home, almost everything I had including “friends.” Began putting things together again last year but can’t connect with any trust-worthy like-minded one/ones in my area. Am in my mid-fifties, loyal to a fault but not dumb. Am saddened to see what has become of my beloved adopted country and the people here.

      17. Prepared Pastor

        Over three years ago now I found a former dairy farm for sale for $1,000 an acre and approached my friends and family about buying it, building a centralized dining, wash, and shower facility in the center surrounded by private acreage for each owner. I called it the ‘Q Plan’ because the entrance road and circular drive looked like the letter Q.

        Even at $5,000 each (including materials for the lodge) I got no takers so after looking for a year I found a few acres in a gated community off a dead-end road for $2,000 an acre. It already had two home sites with driveways cut, but I build my retreat on the back side so it could not be seen even from the private road.

        Instead of having to train people I already know, I now have neighbors who have been heating with wood, poaching deer, and growing/raising their own food for generations. Despite being an outsider, they have accepted me and just last weekend when my brakes went out coming down the 60 degree incline mountain road my brake line blew, I hiked back to the top of the mountain and my neighbor not only called the repair shop owner at home, but followed me over to drop off the truck.

        Last week the same neighbor invited me up for steaks on the grill smoked with hickory he broke off his own tree. As we sat by the garden talking about how the recent storm induced power outage was only a week long and no big deal. Later I laid in my hammock that night looking up at the stars I knew I had turned lemons into lemonade and was better of for it.

        WTHSTF we will close off the only road into the community of about a dozen homes and have miles of forested mountains between us and the nearest road. We will have loggers, and welders, and butchers, and even people who can operate the natural gas wells who will also take their turn as perimeter and gate guards.

        • me

          You have a good neighbor there, stay on the good side and all will be alright. How is mama feeling?

          • Prepared Pastor

            We went to the doctor last Thursday for the first ultrasound and no fetal heartbeat. After a lot of testing they confirmed she is still pregnant. She is still nauseous, etc. We have another scheduled for this Thursday and arranged for someone to watch our toddler so we have time to either morn or celebrate.

            • Daisy

              PP ~ Thinking of you both. I’m sorry for all the stress and worry you must be undergoing. 🙁

              Please keep us posted.


            • Burt the Brit


              Love and prayers for you and your family. Thinking of you.

              Take care x

            • Ranchers wife

              Hope all goes well, will keep you and your family in my prayers.

            • justincase

              @prepared pastor you are in my prayers. Please KNOW this happen to my mom and a very dear friend of ours ans ALL turned out fine. Please keep your faith and believe me these doctors anymore will scare the poop outta you. I have a 20 yr old and a 3 year old because of my age with the 3 year old they spoke to me about abortions, all kinds of testing that I ‘needed” etc etc. Me and the lil one are just fine. Gosh you would never believe how scared I was sometimes but my faith reassured me that all would be ok. Not finding a heartbeat is actualy pretty common because of however the lil munchkin may be laying in there. Do not worry all will be well. God Bless

            • JL

              I am so sorry, maybe is was.a fluke. When I was pregnant with my older son the Dr couldn’t find the heart beat or his head! I know have a very healthy 10 year old.

            • Tarheelbilly

              Prayers lifted up for you and your family, PP.

            • VanMom

              Prepared Pastor:

              Praying for you and your family.

            • KY Mom

              Prepared Pastor,

              I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

              KY Mom

            • Facebook Page

              Hoping the best for your family

            • kimintn

              pp – praying for you and your family, for grace and peace.

            • REB

              …had a similar experience with my firstborn…it turned out well…you are in my prayers!

        • FEMACAMPER

          Everybody’s with you until it comes time to spend a buck. You would’ve gotten lots of takers for $5000 less lol.

        • JayJay

          You dummy…God led you.

          • JayJay

            Wow, you changed topics,fast..above is a response to this…
            Instead of having to train people I already know, I now have neighbors who have been heating with wood, poaching deer, and growing/raising their own food for generations

            God led you.

      18. Survivor Mike

        Great feedback thus far. I think the point of my article was to emphasize finding a few like-minded people. Remember, those that haven’t prepared will not be organized and will likely only be 1 or 2. If they coming at 4 to 5 people, it will be easier to defend.

        I’ve found it easiest to start with conversations about power outages and the need to store water/food for those occasions. That morphs into bigger conversations about what-ifs.

        Obviously, the ideal situation is you have immediate and extended family as your neighbors but that is unlikely.

      19. LivnintheOC

        Well, everything in the article sounds great, but talking to my neighbors about it?? Ha,just getting my family on board is hard enough.

        I don’t know about everyone else, but my neighbors don’t really socialize much but for exchanging pleasantries. I know one family up the street a short way who are Mormons so they might be prepared, but to what extent I don’t know and I don’t know them that well to start a discussion about it. So I’m afraid we’d be on our own here until the SHTF and people wake up. Then we’d be faced with people trying to band together but who have not prepared.

        What to do??????

        • JayJay

          Look, I just brought home my husband after an endarterectomy…and an aneurysm…the worst plaque blockage they had ever seen as junior surgeons. He was a walking time bomf.
          So, we are meant for something, or he is.
          One neighbor brought fruit—I appreciated it very much.
          That is and will be the extent of neighborly ‘love’.
          The others are too busy with kids, athletics, and blings.
          Will I try to build a community with this bunch??
          Hell, no!!!!
          I told the friendly neighbor about a lot of what I have–he will be a great asset with all the weapons he has; he’s a hunter.
          But, the wife tells me in no uncertain terms, they are not prepping. Dh and I are on our own.

          • REB

            Grapefruit pectin,mix it with orangejuice or other as per directions…my Dad had the same type troubles and after a year on this stuff he went from almost complete blockages to almost nothing,docs were amazed I use it as a preventive,of course diet has to be good too but maybe this will help your husband… 🙂

      20. SterlingSilver

        Anon, why the cynical attitude? There has to be more hope than that. I’ve been quite successful in coordinating as many as 15 individuals and families that are already participating in barter, trade, collective gardening and local food production, and some some security functions for down the road. I do indeed live in a small rural area close to the mountains but feel quite good about our prospects barring some major cataclysmic event.

      21. durango kidd

        Looters? Don’t worry about looters, my peeps, what do you think 30,000 armed drones in American skies by 2020 are for if not for your protection?

        Just saying. 🙂

        Engage your employees or be enslaved by them.

        • copperhead

          @DK: You are right don’t worry about looters, but the drones by 2020 don’t worry there either. You worry about 2012 and 2013 and just maybe 2014. I see after that it’s a new world and it’s not going to be good for any of us. Again if we make though 2012 and 2013 the looters will be gone and no body to fly the drones. As for covering your home, use common sense and channel them into your kill zones, you know what to do, but do not wait to long to do it.

        • Rick:)

          Hey Durango, I think your spot on with the drones. I can handle a mob, but these drones constitute an unfair advantage to the corp. And I don’t particulary like unfair advantages, unless their mine. (Sun Tsu,my guy).
          And what’s with the thumbs down??

          • Gods Creation

            There is no Law against shooting down those things.

            If you have a few extra dollars, buy a gun capable of doing it. It will also come in handy against those who are protecting the fliers of these cowardly weapons of futile force against the People.

            300 millions guns with pissed off owners vs. 20,000 drones controlled by a coward?

            Who wins in the end?

            • John W.

              No one. If it comes to that we all lose. He will just fly away on AF1.

        • its not me

          yep they wont need cops to pull the trigger once these drones are up, some unattached individual will do the trigger pulling from thousands of miles away while sipping his morning coffee sitting at his desk in his cubicle, completely unaffected by anything going on in the streets ..or your livingroom.

          engage is right..better now, than when its too late

          • Kindle

            A really good post WTSHTF book is “Foreign Enemies and traitors” by Matthew Bracken. It gives good insight into what the drones and military might be up to post poo hitting the proverbial fan. Actually the whole trilogy is awesome.

            I put his trilogy up there with Lights Out.

          • Gods Creation

            “”some unattached individual will do the trigger pulling from thousands of miles away while sipping his morning coffee sitting at his desk in his cubicle, completely unaffected by anything going on in the streets ..or your livingroom.””

            Or the people he kills for counterfeit bills.

          • JayJay

            They tend to think that makes it impersonal and aleviates the blame for the operator if he’s on the other side of the country.
            That’s to be seen isn’t it??
            Then why so many suicides of our armed forces if they see it as right and prudent??
            I finally, after two years of warning dh of the consequences if he answers wrong, had to complete a questionnaire when leaving the VA hospital after surgery–are you experiencing any suidical thoughts, blah, blah, blah and answered NO on all.
            Be careful…they will come for your weapons, or worse.

        • PO'd Patriot

          DK, it appears that “death from above” has taken on new meaning.

      22. JL

        I live in a neighborhood full of rich old people. Except one military Guy,who I don’t feel comfortable talking with about prepping. So maybe I’m sol. But on the other foot there is an army base pretty close so maybe some of those people will band together and help. Not sure, I think I will have to wait and see. My husband is well known, so I worry about looking like a nut case. Unfortunately he has told a few people and I have been made fun of. I told him to keep his mouth shut from now on. I’m pretty young (31) so if I we older I think people would see it differently.

      23. Jim

        Seriously OT: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AAPL

        SHTF for the markets could well be coming tomorrow. Apple computer missed its profit target…off 5% already in after hours trading. I’m guessing the powers that be might prop this bad boy up before tomorrow or “SHTF” could get a big initiation step.

      24. Soul of the Troll

        4 years ago my neighbors and I got together over a beer, after our Saturday mow the lawn session. All 7 of us agreed that if we ever saw any of us in trouble, or a Gov. Agency trying to take firearms away, the Minutemen will come running, flintlocks in hand!

        Mossberg and #4 buck

      25. clint hospo

        I do agree a strong economy is very good idea but on the flip side, supplies will run low and they will start begging you for your stuff. you must have a plan to know the people in your neighborhood but if a real world mad maxx happens someone is going to overstep their boundries and try and take whats yours. you may be able to do this at first but if all of you have equal things and are lucky it might work, but a lot of people are 2 faced and will hit you when your not looking I guarantee it, even the best people you trust will be begging or light or place on fire if you dont share when they run out. Never show or brag what you got never ever ever. Its a take what you want and all our training to act like trained dogs will be lost and our animal instincs will kick in and it will be the smartest/strongest against the weak. I dont like that idea of sharing but doing your part is ok at first but downplay what you have and make sure your spouce shuts her mouth. all it takes is her talking to another female and she goes back to her husband and says something and then your a target or other way around. be careful people.

        • clint hospo

          SORRY I meant to say a strong community lol!! was thinking of economy.

        • huh?

          clint, yeah-the generous spouse
          who is against Your endeavers now,
          is the one who’ll step up and play the
          saviour with all you’ve worked toward.
          Sorry, had to vent…

        • Kindle

          Clint, it kinda sounds like you think it’s the females that do all the blabbing. My experience is that it is often the “guys” getting together to drink a few (or more). Before you know it the bravado starts coming out and they start trying to “one up” the next guy.

          I’ve collected more information on my neighbors and what their preps were just by listening to them after they had been drinking a few hours. Funny thing is, the next day most don’t remember talking about it until I start rattling off what they let slip. They get a funny look on their face and start trying to swear me to secrecy.

          I just laugh and tell them they don’t have to worry about me but they might consider cutting back on their drinking if they really want to keep a secret.

        • HolyCow!

          Not all females talk but you are right, can’t trust anyone these days, not even your pre-schoolers–they talk too much.

      26. Gravlore

        Maineprepper on youtube talks about groups on one of his videos and why they fail.

        My belief is that real preppers are ones that are the boss of themselves and would have a hard time if someone were in charge of their stuff even if everyone brought the same amount. Hence we are all working in solitude. I have not hung out with anyone other than my dad in over 2 years. I think people are nuts, on meds and disease ridden and do my best to stay away. People are gross. 🙂

        See I am nuts too.

      27. Mr. G

        First Rule of Fight Club: “Never talk about Fight Club!”

        Second Rule of Fight Club: “Never talk about Fight Club!”

        Third Rule of Fight Club: “Never talk about Fight Club!”

        • Prepared Pastor

          Yet every week more new people showed up.

      28. Ranchers wife

        I live in a rural area and I have talked to a couple of my nearest Neighbors but they are like a lot of people don’t think it could happen here or to them
        I do have several family members within a 5 mile radius and a couple of others that are about 100 miles away ( which when shtf they will come home) They all have a clue that sh** is going to go south but my Dad and I are the only ones prepping, (They do have some resources and skills that will be handy) we both are adding things for the other family members, they will have to come to my place. So that will be more people for all that will need to be done. We plan on staying home but if it gets really ugly we have a place that we can all go to but it will be a lot harder there then here.

      29. you don't need to know

        I think there are only a few people on this site that are truly “prepped” and ready. Unfortunately life gets in the way! But understand that NOONE has a crystal ball. The fact that you are aware puts you ahead of 99% of the population. If things really get bad for whatever reason, think about how many people will die from contaminated water alone? You know more than them.

        How about the ones who have no protection? You’re ahead of them. I think staying in a suburban home is crazy, but sometimes this just can’t be helped, and regardless you are aware and preparing to stay there, so you are ahead of 99% of that population!

        Those of you who have other means of gardening, farming, fishing, seeds, anything that will help you sustain yourself after TSHTF are ahead of 99% of the population!

        This site is not an if the poopoo hits the fan, it’s WHEN! So keep doing what you’re doing, pay attention to the news and stock away whatever you can.

        There are prepper websites and groups all over the place. Survivalblog has a location where you can look up local groups. I know we all talk about opsec, but meeting other like minded people in your area would help your chances tremendously, through ideas, good deals, and just plain friendship. I think it really helps getting to know other “preppers” in your area!!! And it might surprise you to find other preppers looking for tribe members; it’s a numbers thing.

        My husband and I started off with an idea, went to meetings, and now have a tribe. I feel very blessed.

        Keep prepping and good luck!!!

        • Prepared Pastor

          I’m prepared, but I’ll never be ready because once I reach a certain point I discover other improvements and upgrades that need done. Last week I built a deck on the cabin which is nice, but now I need to roof it and screen it in so my children can enjoy it now and it can be easily converted to heated living space later. My propane instant hot water heater is great, but I need to have the wood stove coil and the solar water heater inline before I can no longer get propane. It never ends.

          I’ve done the whole ‘tribe’ thing, but the coordinator dissolved it because too many crazies knew where she lived. Also met a lot of ‘preppers’ in my region and have five or six still wanting to sit down with me, but I think I’m finished with them. I never self-identified myself as a prepper getting ready for some big event, but just someone who does things differently. When I ask myself what these people I meet have to offer, the answer is never satisfying. Rather than rendezvous with city people and bug out to the sticks, I’m just going to spend more time with my existing retreat neighbors.

          • clint hospo

            your right I believe. people are going to do what they want and dont think like we do. we think differently and thats good for us. I feel people think this could never happen but dont realize a big accident 10x bigger than katrina and there is no way the government can help. we tried to help but we gotta take care of ourselves. Never ever tell people what you got or where you live etc. people in hard times will take your things in desperate times. i still think people are like thinking they still can get things when tougher times start to arrive. let them be its useless people im 39 years old just thinking common sense.

          • Highspeedloafer

            Just curious PP, what plans do you have for your flock or congregation? Are you bringing them to the retreat?

            • Prepared Pastor

              My church is an hour in one direction and my retreat is an hour in the other if I take the highways. It’s a small country church and I did an entire week on what to expect a couple years ago. Most of them have since expanded their gardens and canning and got chickens.

              Other than my immediate retreat neighbors, my wife and child are the only ones who have ever been there. One of my current friends (who declined my invitation to go in on a larger retreat) was in a Bible study in 1999 where someone was encouraging people to prepare for Y2K. He still does not understand why the guy got mad when he said he would ‘just come to his house.’ Anyone who is going to preach preparedness needs to be where desperate hordes will not find them. The line between charity and entitlement is as blurred in the church as anywhere else.

              • HolyCow!

                Yes I agree there are more wolves in the church than sheep. I got to experience first hand several years ago, bad enough the sheep turns on you but when the shepherd does–it hurts for a long time. Now I am trusting no one but God.

            • Joe (another)

              PP, why don’t you start a “disaster relief team” at your church? A couple guys with a pickup and chainsaws should do it. And maybe a couple case of chili from Sams…

          • JayJay

            You see?? that’s my problem. I ask myself the same thing–what do they have and what have I stored for 3 years??
            Exactly how are 2 or 3 families with (counting–still counting) 9 or 10 small kids gonna help my situation??
            I’m going it alone; just dh and me.
            Neighbor with plenty of guns is welcome, cause his wife has told me they are not stocking.

      30. jimmy

        Fort Monmouth in NJ open up training

      31. Scout Motto

        I’ve considered sending an anonymous mailing to those in my cul de sac, encouraging preparedness, and leaving an email address for them to respond to if they wish. I don’t want to give myself away, but it’s the only way I feel safe gaging my street on this topic without blowing my own OpSec. I don’t know I am open to suggestions though.

        • JustMe

          Don’t think I’d do that, that’s JustMe…

        • Anonymous

          Do you know your neighbors? If so, that’s good. Most people don’t even know their next door neighbor anymore. One suggestion is to have a “Community/Cul de sac Picnic” and/or party. Kinda an end of the summer bash. Then take that time to see who is like-minded and get to know them better. Power in numbers, as it were.

          Yet, as I said above it’s hard these days to even get the trust from anyone. So good luck.

          • Scout Motto

            A cookout is not a bad idea. I’m not much of a cook so I would need help, but it’s food for thought.

            I know some of my neighbors. Next door to me is a young couple with 4 little kids. I’ve thought about getting some extra #10 cans of stuff just for their sakes. I also have a couple cans of powdered milk they can barter me for, since I don’t drink moo.

            • Anonymous

              Well, that gives me another thought. What about buying those 10# cans and milk and giving them to that family? When they ask what it’s all about, wham, talk about an open door opportunity to share your thoughts. I’d just not go too in depth though, just the basics K.I.S.Scout.

            • Anonymous

              Oh, by the way, I meant to say that if that neighbor is a good cook that would be a great way to get him and his family involved right off the get go. Use the talents of others and they will feel like they’re needed – which they are.

            • delr

              yeahme too. i put together a tote.rice,beans,tang,cool aide,sugar,salt,coloring books and pencils[crayons melt],shaker flashlight, box a matches. evrythings vac packed.anything else i’ll trade their labor for. always need more firewood!

        • Scout Motto

          By the way, the email address would not tie back to me in any obvious way, so it would be a mystery to my neighbors.

          • Highspeedloafer

            I’ve toyed with this idea too Scout. I haven’t gone any farther than that though because then I am afraid it would lead to too much exposure. I already get funny looks because of my garden in the neighborhood (8 foot stakes in the garden for my half runner beans).

            Lots to think about.

        • clint hospo

          people will just think that person is a wako and do what they want. I believe we all think alike in a lot of ways but i dont think we can change peoples beliefs on this. I even tell my mom to prepare and she tells me not to watch so much news. I know what shes saying and she is the best mom in the world but people are going to do what they want and i dont think it will make any difference until its too late. that is just what i think personally.

        • Prepared Pastor

          I thought about doing this in the past maybe even offering them a free ebook like the LDS Preparedness Manual. I do not let anyone who actually knows where I live what I have, but anonymously it couldn’t hurt.

        • huh?

          SM, don’t do it Man.

        • Survivor Mike

          Agree with JustMe. I would keep it to conversations and feel each one out individually. This way you don’t mark yourself as anything to them. Start the conversation with a power outage story or something about the economy.

          You’ll get a sense where they stand pretty quickly.

          • FEMACAMPER

            Nobody ever learned anything by talking. Your neighbors will tell you who they are if ou just listen.

        • Josh

          i like this idea but i think they would know its from me, im the only one on my street with a garden and chickens. if you do go through with this plan send a letter to your self in case youre questioned by an unfriendly. then youll be able to play it off like i got one too.

        • JayJay

          OOh, ooh, ooh, that’s a great idea and tell for security reasons you are leaving a PO box # to respond to.
          I’m trying that at night, after dark, except for the Californians that I already know are NOT storing supplies–he found hidden TP under the bed and blew a gasket–he’s the first I’ll turn away!!!!!!!!!

      32. TheFulishBastid

        Ya’ll are way overthinking this!!!

        Start simple. Start with the community watch org, or fight club, or local gardening club. Whatever.

        You don’t have to show your hand. Just your heart.(CHHHEEEEEZZZYY)

        • ScoutMotto

          Sure, I see merit there.

      33. watchermax

        I hate to be a reality check here, but in many of the words I have just read I hear a small boy whistling through the graveyard. Just as you cannot envision all the stars in the sky, so you cannot envision 300 million fat,lazy,instantly gratified, selfish, self centered, egocentric, useless Americans when the power goes out and the stores are empty. Utter chaos. If you are NOW living in a small, rural close knit community. You just might last through with the help of said community. Before you start talking to folks, you might want to ponder what any father or mother would do to feed their starving kids in the future. Have you ever seen the madness in the eyes of the dammed? Those who have served our country in some of the hell holes on this earth could tell you, but they won’t, cause they wish to leave that memory behind. A starving man is a vicious animal, and the starving will be legion. Get right with God. and if you prep, prep so that you will be able to help any who cross your path. We, who know what is coming, have been given this clarity of sight by God. Do you truly think he gave you a look behind the curtain so that you might heap up supplies for yourself? If you have been given the power of sight, when so many are blind it is for a reason. Pray that you have the greatness of spirit, to give the last full measure, in the helping of another person.

      34. justincase

        I live on a dead end road in a rural area ( it is state maintained) that concerns me some, I wish I lives 400 miles up a mountain with a stream but this is not too bad. The nearest city is a pop of like 100 thousand and it is more like a big suburb really. NOt even a tall building here. I am about 20 miles from the ocean and that is not the best thing but that could be worse too. I have a neighborhood with about 30 homes and 1 fanily which I go to church with is prepping too. They have chickens and I want to get some goats so we could trad. Almost everyone here is a hunter so I know there is protection. WHen it hits I know who has what and hopefully can co ordinate people in a timely fashion. I think for the most part some will leave in a panic but most would pull together I HOPE

      35. Olden

        After a nuclear attack like the one that might happen in London a few days from now, no amount of community, ammo, stored food or whatnot will help you, it will only elongate your pain and suffering that is all. The truly smart, see what they are up against and if they know that they will not be able to withstand what is about to come their way, get out of the way. To leave and have life in you to be able to start again somewhere else is probably the best option. Save your money and begin to use it to move to save yourself. Learn a skill, if not already know one. That can be used somewhere else so to sustain yourself.

      36. Government Guy

        I have no idea what you mean about the boy, but I gave God his first fruit offering so while I will pass along anything I receive supernaturally, my first priority is to my own family (1 Tim 5:8) so I will be following the example set by Noah.

      37. Olden

        As for me, I have an exit strategy- it’s at the end of my 45.

      38. slingshot

        I do not have anyone I can rely on in a pinch. So I have to do it myself. I have no bones to make what might finally happen to me. Only that I resolve to take as many with me when I go. To prepare for the worst and hope for the best, may just end up having some one else reap the benefits of my labor. But for life of me I still prep. My nature is that I do not have any tolerance for stupidity and will deal with it in harsh manner. I am a firm believer in firepower.
        I often read how many can escape to the woods or some place out of the way. As in my case, many are stuck where they are and the inhabitants are not conducive in binding together. Except to cause more chaos. How many times it has been said, ‘I’m gonna get mines”.
        The thing that angers me the most is that not only do I have to prepare against the government but I have to guard against the idiots in my neighborhood.
        To tie up the lose end. If they manage to put a bullet in my mellon, then I guess I will not have to be concerned anymore.

        • Rick:)

          Well said, Slingshot.
          Make the sons of bitches pay a heavy price.

      39. Ohcumgache

        Where I live, they would have to bus in the hungry marauders. No gangs, not many neighbors and a small town 6 miles down the road. It will be more dangerous going to the grocery store than staying behind closed doors in your own home. If this scenario should come to pass then places like walmart and sams club, BJs, malls, Mom and pop stores, convenient markets, restaurants, bars, anything that may hold food or value could be pilfered and destroyed. The National Guard will be employed and there will most likely be a curfew. I will make certain my family is with me and that my home and barn are secure. If I have enough food stored then I can wait it out until things settle down. When you think about how many homes there are in this country, then the odds are probably small that you will be targeted. How long can a person go ravaging if they have no source of energy? Many good samaritans and churches will set up makeshift food pantries for the hungry and I believe Mothers with small children will not go far, hopefully they will not have to. We are after all americans and we do come through during a crisis.

      40. RedGreen

        First, my thought about a group. Put out feelers about prepping and make a list, BUT don’t go farther. WTSHTF THEN you find out who really has been prepping. I have found many in this area who want to be my friend but won’t prep themselves. Don’t make my mistake.
        Also, to block off a road put cars or trucks in place and then take their wheels off and set them on the ground. (Be sure to take the gas and battery out first.)
        They are nearly impossible to move by hand at that point.

      41. shwarma king

        there no such thing as community in middle-class black neighborhoods – we’re fugged

        • ScoutMotto

          A pity, shwarma.

          But then, we’ll see how much “community” is out there when things finally drop. For times like this I wish I lived in a more rural area.

          • FEMACAMPER

            I expect things to not really change much. You can trust most people as long as you don’t let them get too close and you can keep an eye on them. Locks keep our neighbors honest. Only a chump completely trusts anyone but God.

      42. Jesus Christ is Son of God

        Gun buying surge in Colorado after massacre. People seem to have little foresight. I know that you can’t anticipate everything, and I’m probably stating the obvious, but it takes something like this before people take their 2nd Amendment seriously.

        Anyone who discourages personal self-defense carry is a murderer directly responsible for the deaths in Aurora the same as the “Joker” shooter. The Lawmakers, Enforcers, and all Shills should be co-defendants in that trial happening right now. The murderers should share the same sentencing as accessories. God help me, I despise these traitors…

        Blessings to Suzanne Hupp and supporters for the merciful defense initiatives that has saved many many many innocent lives. When it was very unpopular she made a stand. We should see the 2nd amendment fully restored in every corner of this Republic.


        The Lord is Righteous.
        Standing by in Texas.

        • ScoutMotto

          Just as a side note, I agree that the 2nd Amendment is crucial, however most people do not realize that their STATE Constitutions also recognize the right to have arms. Colorado’s does even better then the 2nd Amendment, in that it mentions self-defense.


          • kimintn

            ooooh, SM very nice. will be copy/pasting this one. thanks!

          • Jesus Christ is Son of God

            “You can do it your own way, if it’s done just how I say.”

            Gooberment side mouth speaker and friends. Until their held personally culpable it will continue.

            The Lord is Righteous.
            Standing by in Texas.

          • its not me

            Where have you been my whole life?
            Ive been preaching this for I dont know how long

            • Scout Motto

              Which one itsnotme, the “state consitutions” post, or the one by JCISOG?

          • JayJay

            All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: … Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

            Kentucky Constitution..yeehaw.

      43. RICH99

        YAWN !!!!!!

      44. lil bit

        I’m wishing I had good ideas for @Widow-
        I may have to defend the old duplex by myself if trucker husband is too far away. There are gangs in the next town, and a forest preserve between us. But I know my neighborhood is filled with good quiet working people.
        And the only thing I know for sure is that the State cop I share a common wall with has a gun and one man down the street and I are on the same page in prepping. Some are very current on the latest news, but don’t prep, and some are clueless in nearly every way.
        So, must haves on my list include a powerful flashlite and binoculars-guns placed in many rooms-those cheapie door alarms that are loud as hell and a whole lot of my motto-Be brave be brave, everywhere, be brave.

        @Scout Motto-how unfortunate for me to live in Illinois. Legally, I’m only allowed to protect myself in my home. The rebel in me wants to wear an empty holster in protest!!

        • Widow

          Thank you, lil bit!
          The cheap door alarms are a great idea. I have some, not installed. That is now on my master list of things to do for preparation.

          • Kindle

            My mom is 82 and in the same situation as you Widow. I got her a bunch of those screech alarms (similiar to the window alarms) and bear spray that can shoot up to 30 ft. Put them in a lot of locations throughout her house.

            • John W.

              Hornet spray is much better than bear spray. Probably kill them or make them wish they were dead.

      45. Ted Kennedy

        I’m a light sleeper with my best friends within reach. I sleep alone.

        • John W.

          Of course you sleep alone since you killed Mary Jo. Bet no one goes for car rides with you anymore either, especially across bridges.

      46. Smokey

        Let’s face it, when it happens, we may be the only person in our neighborhood with adequate preps, the rest may have some firearms, some food, but really nothing else. We can’t bug out, we have to stay, that means those non-prepped people are who we have to work with. Either we build a community and work together or sure enough, you won’t last a week, gangs or no gangs. When it’s bad enough, people will work together for the good of all, and take care of themselves as well. We need to give each other that opportunity.

      47. $ cocopuff crackhead $

        DON’T ADVERTISE to much with the community your a prepper peeples

        , the fedgov dhs plan to seize all large caches of foods water and meds come shtf martial law day your neighbors will betray you for a nwo red cross emergency food box and nwo cdc who must have eugenics med shots … low profile hidden small 3-5 person groups or a lone scavenger burrowed deep hidden in the forest woods or building rubble – have a higher chance of survival

        don’t get so set on buggin-in with the neighbors folks
        always be prepared to bug out in 3 minutes to a back up fightin over watch location and have two more back up locations near fresh water from that one each farther away off the main routes of travel with natural obstacles in place to block pursuit

        its better to displace run under cover to back up natural fight positions and regroup then dig-in in a shtf scenario vs fightin a medium / large fedgov force or local gang raid party

        fire will be your greatest threat enemy

        in a shtf scenario become water – flow as necessary , follow the least resistance to your life’s your groups survival

        evade , be patient , endure , live to fight another day , even hurricanes eventually must go to sleep

        sometimes all you have to do is just move go run 5 blocks a 1/2 mile and you’ll be safe in a “normal” life peaceful zone again

        *** personally i’m heading deep into the mtns with my shovel bowie crossbow artic bag canteen and camo tent to build a nice warm artic proof dug-out home to chill out in for a few years – puck the community . a community will only become ground zero center focus for personal crime rape death disease and starvation or a target of opportunity for the corrupt un dhs fedgov military police – rapists thieves murderers or nomad mobile crime raider gangs .

        arm up stock up prepare – predator or prey of the nwo , the choice is yours !!!


        • PO'd Patriot

          You nino, hit the homerun here.

      48. Barn Cat

        I can’t get anybody I know to prep. How could I possibly get my community involved? All I’ll do is let them know I have food after the collapse. We have two adults who know how to use guns. He’ll stay away during the night. I’ll be awake during the day.

      49. its not me

        Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat.
        She called her neighbors and said, “If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?”
        “Not I,” said the neighbors
        “Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.
        The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. “Who will help me reap my wheat?” asked the little red hen.
        “Not I,” said the duck.
        “Out of my classification,” said the pig.
        “I’d lose my seniority,” said the cow.
        “I’d lose my unemployment compensation,” said the goose.
        “Then I will,” said the little red hen, and she did.
        At last it came time to bake the bread. “Who will help me bake the bread?” asked the little red hen.
        “That would be overtime for me,” said the cow.
        “I’d lose my welfare benefits,” said the duck.
        “I’m a dropout and never learned how,” said the pig.
        “If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,” said the goose.
        “Then I will,” said the little red hen.
        She baked five loaves and held them up for her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share.
        But the little red hen said, “No, I can eat the five loaves.”
        “Excess profits!” cried the cow.
        “Capitalist leech!” screamed the duck.
        “I demand equal rights!” yelled the goose.
        And the pig just grunted.
        And they painted “unfair” picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.
        When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, “You must not be greedy.”
        “But I earned the bread,” said the little red hen.
        “Exactly,” said the agent. “That is the wonderful free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide their product with the idle.”
        And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, “I am grateful. I am grateful.”
        But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread.

        • PO'd Patriot

          Sad but true. Raise the wheat, harvest it, winnow it, grind it, and make bread. Shoot every and any sonsofbitches that come to take it. You might have a shovel for your best friend but you’ll enjoy your bread. I know I’d be singing as I dug. My .45 kimber on my side, my repr within hands reach. No quarter-none!

      50. KY Mom

        On Drudge Report…

        Dems register the dead?

        Hmmm…I have recently read about pets (deceased and alive) being registered to vote. Now the dead register to vote. No wonder Eric Holder and Obama are so against voter ID laws. We have to let non citizens, pets and the deceased vote. They believe we should NOT discriminate and it is their “right”.

      51. Y'all Beware!

        A Good Catholic Joke.

        The Pope and Obama are on the same stage in Yankee Stadium in front of a huge crowd.

        The Pope leans towards Mr. Obama and said, “Do you know that with one little wave of my hand I can make every person in this crowd go wild with joy? This joy will not be a momentary display, but will go deep into their hearts and they’ll forever speak of this day and rejoice!”

        Obama replied, “I seriously doubt that! With one little wave of your hand….Show me!”

        So the Pope backhanded him and knocked him off the stage!
        AND THE CROWD ROARED & CHEERED WILDLY and there was happiness throughout the land!

        Y’all Beware! Kind of brings a tear to your eye, doesn’t it?

      52. Be informed

        Earthquakes can be predicted. As of the post on July 22, 2012 at 12:08 AM I said that that within a week the western Pacific Plate would be hit by a good size earthquake of 6.8 or larger. Already 2 earthquakes of 6.5 and 6.4 have hit the western Pacific Plate like this was said on Sunday before it occurred. http://www.iris.edu/seismon/

        I admit that there are not quite 6.8, YET, but the location was correct. People can see on a globe where the energy is building up and get an idea where the next earthquake will be. Just like engineers can tell on a dam where the likely points of failure will be from the cracking and knowing the weak points of the structure.

        Earthquakes can be predicted as this again proves as the other times in the past that have also been correct. This area is still under stress and a much larger earthquake is still very possible.

        • Youdontneedtoknow

          That area is on fire!!! What’s interesting is there have been some small ones around Yellowstone this week…. New Zealand also has an active volcano.

      53. Sideshow

        If your trying when SHTF, you are wrong, and will fail.

        Proper planning prevents piss poor performance

        If you don’t have a community plan already prior, your efforts will be wasted after, for in their fears they will see a target not an ally… When it gets rough, they will panic and you will be the target of opportunity in a world without rational thought.

        Think I’m kidding? When you survive living in natural disaster areas for weeks as the only prepared person…… See how well your community is after day seven…. Good order and discipline is GONE.

        Been there done that more then I enjoy remembering, in more then one state.

        Plan now, and if your scared people will talk now…..then you will be in trouble when it counts….

      54. OSHIT

        When it hits, I will do anything and everything to protect and provide for my family period. Keys words being anything and everything. “Community” is nice until it gets down to the “community” or family. It will reach that point eventually.

      55. Accroyer

        This article is spot on…although i would limit the number of people in a group to say 24 tops. I’m in Southern Nevada and it’s hard to find three good people.

        • Survivor Mike

          Thanks. I agree that you will need to limit your community. It will be difficult enough to gain consensus and more just means more opinions.

          Hopefully you can find more than 3. ; )

      56. scott

        Wishful thinking! My neighbors are only concerned with themselves and their white vinyl fences. I pissed them all off when I put up a chain link fence so I could have visibility so now they don’t even look at us. Sad state of affairs for some of us in these types of neighborhoods.

        I guess my daughters will have to learn to shoot when this comes down the pipe.

      57. VRF

        ‘What?’ Confused 911 caller outs NYPD spying in NJ
        By ADAM GOLDMAN and MATT APUZZO | Associated Press – 5 hrs ago.

        It’s an audiotape the New York Police Department hoped you would never hear.

        A building superintendent at an apartment complex just off the Rutgers University campus called the New Brunswick Police 911 line in June 2009. He said his staff had been conducting a routine inspection and came across something suspicious.

        “What’s suspicious?” the dispatcher asked.

        “Suspicious in the sense that the apartment has about — has no furniture except two beds, has no clothing, has New York City Police Department radios.”

        “Really?” the dispatcher asked, her voice rising with surprise.

        The caller, Salil Sheth, had stumbled upon one of the NYPD’s biggest secrets: a safe house, a place where undercover officers working well outside the department’s jurisdiction could lie low and coordinate surveillance. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, the NYPD, with training and guidance from the CIA, has monitored the activities of Muslims in New York and far beyond. Detectives infiltrated mosques, eavesdropped in cafes and kept tabs on Muslim student groups, including at Rutgers.

        The NYPD kept files on innocent sermons, recorded the names of political organizers in police documents and built databases of where Muslims lived and shopped, even where they were likely to gather to watch sports. Out-of-state operations, like the one in New Brunswick, were one aspect of this larger intelligence-gathering effort. The Associated Press previously described the discovery of the NYPD inside the New Jersey apartment, but police now have released the tape of the 911 call and other materials after a legal fight.

        “There’s computer hardware, software, you know, just laying around,” the caller continued. “There’s pictures of terrorists. There’s pictures of our neighboring building that they have.”

        “In New Brunswick?” the dispatcher asked, sounding as confused as the caller.

        The AP requested a copy of the 911 tape last year. Under pressure from the NYPD, the New Brunswick Police Department refused. After the AP sued, the city this week turned over the tape and emails that described the NYPD’s efforts to keep the recording a secret.

        more to the story im sure..just take that title and search it

      58. GrayFoxGreen

        Dear KY Mom:It may be true what your off topic story is about.BUT it only part of the story.The other side of the political coin used Televised lies and falshoods as well as the infamous Diebold voting machines that were programmed to “correct” your vote if it wasn’t for the “red tie party”.As a result,we got G.W for eight long years,a 800 MILLION SURPLUS THAT HE TURNED INTO A 7 TRILLION deficit,AND let’s not forget the 8,000 dead and 25000+ maimed American servicemen.Why?Were we attacked by Iraq?Nope!The 911 terrorists didn’t come from there.Did they declare war against us?Nope!It was because G.W. wanted to play at being John Wayne(remember the flight suit on the carrier?What a hubris laden moment,even Nixon couldn’t match that one!)Afghanistan is another discussion altogether.But guess who supported(and gave arms and training to)the Tabalin against the Russians when they were there?Does this mean that I love Obama and hate the other side?Wrong again!but I DO believe in truth,something both sides of the REPOCRATS in congress are lacking.Except when they take donations(read bribes)from the bankers and the multinationals(and some corrupt unions too).It’s ALL about greed and me first today.THAT’s why there’s a need for sites like this one.It wouldn’t have a purpose w\o the endless corruption of the folks in D.C..As for “people working together” that’s a pipe dream that will never happen.This is America folks,where Independence and do your own thing is the norm.
        On a lighter note,to Y’all Beware!a bedtime story fur Ya:The pope died and was laid to rest.Obama also died and was buried as well.On Judgment Day both were resurrected.As they stood before Jesus Christ,they waited for their due reward as everyone else.First,Obama was called before the Judgment seat.”Mr. Obama,on the basis what merit do you deserve the mercy of this court and the reward of everlasting life in my kingdom”?Obama smiled and said:”Your honor,I continued to carry on the fine policies of my predecessors to fight terrorism. and I spent additional Trillions of dollars to keep the bankers afloat.I also kept giving folks unemployment longer instead of bringing jobs back for them to work in.I also let the TSA continue to grope people’s private parts and steal their cameras and such in the name of American freedom”.A quiet hush settled over the heavenly courtroom.Jesus Christ spoke and said:”I commanded my followers to give hope to people about my coming kingdom and to do unto others as you have others do unto you.In this you have neither acted in mercy toward your fellow man,nor have you done what else was expected of you.Because of this you shall not be allowed citizenship in my kingdom.Angels!Put him outside to be punished”!Next,the pope stood in front of the Judgment Seat.”Lord” the pope spoke sweating profusely,”I did my best to lead your flock while alive,surely I should have immediate entrance to the kingdom”.Another pause ensued.At last Jesus spoke,his eyes flashing with great anger:”YOU who were one of those claimed to be my representative on Earth,YOU allowed and hid those who were raping and molesting of countless innocents world-wide,YOU who’s bound duty was to speak out against the many “wars” committed by Mr.Obama and those before him.In these and many others things you failed.YOU who failed to keep my commandments,YOU expect a award?As you acted,so you will receive!”.The crowd of heavenly onlookers cheered wildly as he was lead away to punishment.
        When that happy time comes we can all truly say:”free at last,free at last,Thank God we are free at last!”
        The world-wide system is failing and there are no longer any places safe to “ride this all out”.
        Brings a tear of joy to the eye,does it not?
        Thought so.
        Again Best to All,
        Hope you have food for the day and a safe place to lay your head tonight.

        • FEMACAMPER

          Never really was a surplus. Accounting tricks and robbing SS, leaving SS more IOUs.

      59. john735

        I agree that it would be beneficial to have other people in your nieghborhood on board with a survival plan. But… Think about it this way. You have extended family, maybe close to you. That extended family has family, and then you have the friends, yours and theirs, and they have family and friends. If too many people know that you are prepared better than they, even if you call them friend or family you will have a problem. People do funny things when their bellys are growling. I suggest being a closet prepper.
        If you can help make your city safe you can help all those people.
        Alot of people make the mistake of thinking that “bailing out” would be a good idea. Really, where are you going to go? Probably somewhere where the winters are harsh, and so on. Dont give up because it gets ugly, dont retreat lest you resemble those poor grapes of wrath souls. I say fight. If the masses want to commit anarchy then punish them with every step they take toward anarchy. If looters start with your nieghborhood, punish them with every door they kick in.
        It is not safe to do the above, but when the shtf you will not be safe anyway. I say fight back against those that would mean to take from you, fight back against those who would victimize the weak. Does a hero run off and leave their home city to chaos without even trying to save it? I say dont give the chaotic masses an inch. Hunger, thirst, and depression will cause people to do horrible things. If you are prepared better than most then you already have an advantage. Exploit it. Fight back. You may lose… And you may win. I would rather die protecting my city than die of the flu in northern Idaho. Its not easy to do the above, maybe its impossible. Who knows? I know I will try.

      60. don't tread

        As a “veteran” prepper(over ten years and growing smarter), I have had many discussions and many wannabes that have left me questioning my reasoning behind trying to build a small group/community that I/we can trust. We have many friends that have potential, but; we have seen their desire for more wealth/stuff/shit that means nothing when SHTF. We plant little seeds in their mind from time to time and leave it at that. No more confiding and exposing our “real” plans.
        Many of you have some real good comments and most, it seems, are of the same mindset that we are; Trust no one outside your immediate houshold. When the SHTF and the scenarios start to unfold, most of our true friends will seek us out. We won’t be seeking out anyone until after days/weeks/ or even months, depending upon the severity of the situations. If we need backup for security/protection purposes then, and only then, will we look to our friends/family/neighbors for a change in their heart/views.
        I know for a fact who has the “protection” (wink-wink) and who doesn’t. I trust them in a serious situation but not as persons to confide in during a pre-SHTF situation. Some are volunteer firemen and First Responders and some aren’t. I was both for several years until the “space cadets” and “mouthy, busy-body, troublemakers” came to the department. I have little patience for those types and found it best to just leave before I snapped on some people and some people would get hurt. We ain’t talkin’ about just black-eye hurt either. Now I’m a christian and law abiding citizen but, This ole country boy is too old and too smart to be takin’ shit from anyone, anymore. Peace to all preppers here.

      61. Anonymous

        survivor mike; i don’t dispute anything in your article, but too many of us are unable to get any property in any rural area. i tried to buy some land in the ozarks back in the 90s but my application was rejected because of no previous credit history. so i’m just stuck in the concrete jungle of memphis when tshtf. my springfield xd40 and universal m1 carbine will locked and loaded and ready whenever the animals come to my place. i don’t have anything to do with my neighbors; i doubt if any of them have prepped. i live alone so i don’t have to worry about any extra mouths to feed. with the exception of my late wife, i’ve never trusted anyone; i’ve never depended on anyone but myself. the way people are these days, i’m too afraid to contact prepper community; who knows if one them might be a judas? no, i’ll take my chances alone. i’mm still gathering all i possibly can before the balloon goes up. i won’t be in any of those hordes raiding stores or whatever. i’ve always taken responsibility for my own well being; never been on any government program and damn sure not going to start now. anyone coming to my place to steal what i have; i don’t care of you’re in a uniform or not; i’ll give you ONLY ONE CHANCE to turn around and get away from my place alive. if you make one wrong move against me, YOU WILL BE HISTORY. then you can go meet your maker and he’ll decide what to do with you.

      62. Padre

        I have always said people are an asset, however, OpSec being essential, how do you reconcile the desire for “troops” vs. the need for stealth?

        In the past I have thought about forming a prepper group, but people can be flaky, and until the SHTF happens they may not take it as seriously as they should. Sure my close family and friends know about some of my preps, but I have decided I don’t want anyone to know about them all. So what is the solution?

        Covertly planning your group without telling those on your list that they are members. As another comment suggests wait till after the SHTF to formalize the group, BUT do think about who you might want (and not want) think about personalities, and leadership skills, moral character, and resources. Obviously it would be great if everyone on your list had 10yrs of food, a standardized weapon, and matching camo, but that sort of set up may be more the stuff of fiction than reality. Instead think about what people do have and what you could accomplish together. Joe Smoe may not have an AR but he does have a cellar full of food, and Jane Roe may not have food but as a doctor she does have drugs and skills, etc.

        One thing I do is prepp for others. Food, weapons, meds, comms, agra supplies, you name it, things that people will need.

        I do not agree with the idea that you should wait 90days till forming your group. As soon as people are in a panic thats when you start calling people together, because after 90 days either it will be over or things will be really bad, so bad that many people will be dead or starving, and those who aren’t will be very wary of trusting you. Why allow people to loose hope? Why not offer them hope from day 1 so that the first 90 days are an opportunity to put things in order, perhaps gather overlooked supplies, and cement the bonds of trust which may save your lives?

      63. FEMACAMPER

        Most of have neighbors we will want to drive away because they are parasites and simply liabilities. Sucks, but it is what it is.

      64. T.R.

        Community and organized militia is key to keeping you free . The Stalinist government and LEOs simply dont have the manpower to place any effective marshal law on the nation except for a few of the major cities . They can be defeated , and guerilla warfare works . Zip and strip people , in WW2 the allies dropped a sheet metal , disposable pistol , it had a single 45 cal round in it , and would be dropped to any that wished to resist . It was called the best gun to get another gun buy killing a German and stripping the body of equipment . People are going to behave differently is a crisis , each to their own gifts .Some will freak out and cave in , others will stay rational and become the needed leadership . Either way , the government and LEOs are not your friends in a full blown SHTF crisis . You may have to ban together to not only defend your area against street thugs , but also against any traitorous authorities . Not going to be fun .

        • john735

          Context is important when we discuss SHTF scenarios. I like to study human nature. LEO are going to be just as terrified as any one of us in a bad enough scenario. The same goes for military or govt employees. In a bad enough scenario there is no force in the world that would have the means to go door to door and oppress you. It would be too costly for them. Unless of course your area is critical to whatever mission they have to carry out, then all bets are off. We make the mistake of thinking katrina and while it is important to learn the lessons from that incident it cannot be applied on a wide scale. In a bad enough scenario think katrina in ten spreadout major cities. What would be the response realistically? I would think that on a local level attempts would be made by authorities to hold it all together, but it would be impossible logistically. The effects of chaos would start to be felt on the periphery of those cities and then on the periphery of the periphery, the zone of chaos would grow larger. Nothing could be done. On a local level things would go dark. On a federal level there will be continuity. Time would be a large factor. You cannot deploy what little resources you have left to the lions mouth so you wait it out. What else can you do?
          If people think massive oppression is on its way thats a whole different ball game. Take for instance everyones favorite, “the economic collapse”. Things will hold together somewhat. How long it would hold is the question. There will be pockets of stability. Rural America will suffer. If the powers in charge detected an insurgency through the chaos you will see oppression but only on critical area level. Routes, infastructure, and so on. There are not enough resources anywhere on plant Earth that could crack down martially on an country like ours. Not saying however that extreme examples couldnt be made by striking certain problem areas at random with no attempt to hold ground.
          I believe at first our threats will come from the chaotic masses, it will be hard enough to fight them off. After enough time has passed you may see a very different power structure emerge from the ashes of what we once had, and then you can decide if you allow them to govern you. Because after all that, ask them what gives them the authority to be in charge.
          Be wary of any militia, they may see the world a very different way you do, it takes a strong leader to be righteous, and they may not have it nor be too righteous. If a militia comes out of their survival retreat and means to impose influence ask them why they are qualified to do so. Those who call themselves milita and retreat and let their fellow man spiral into anarchy without trying to save them only to emerge and think that the survivors would pay them hommage after hiding for months is comical.

          • T.R.

            Agreed ! Look at the pre civil war era , states rights and abolitionist militias clashed constantly until war finally broke out . That is why YOUR neighborhood militia is important —–you KNOW these people already when TSHTF . The cops ? mild SHTF , both you and they know its only temporary , catastrophic SHTF , its every man for themselves and they too will loot for the same reasons others will , and will use their defunct authority to ” confiscate ” what you have if nothing else can be had , they have families also .

        • Kevin2


          They would think nothing of flying over and spraying a concentrated group of people with some virus, bacteria or chemical. The UN going to report them? Heck the aircraft just might be pained in UN Blue dropping needed supplies ostensibly to help the poor people. I remember something about blankets infected with small pox given the American Indians with the very intent of spreading disease. One can call it many things but that’s genocide. It’s been done before here there and almost everywhere.

          You better hope some people on “there side” (I’m still trying to figure out who they are) have morality because they damn sure have technology.

          • T.R.

            I agree with that as well . Another thing also to be considered ( and hoped for ) is that all that serve in the military , who are the ones eventually called on to do things like that , have families as well , many will not know the disposition of them . They might mutiny if called on to do things that woud murder large amounts of their own citizens .

          • Smokey

            It’s true that clothing and blankets were given to New England tribes, that were infected with smallpox virus. It was not intended to spread disease, there was no germ theory in 1700. The blankets came from a hospital and were intended to be a charitable gift, nothing more. The dire consequences were not deliberatly planned. Such clothing and blankets were routinely distributed to white people who needed them, as well.

            • HolyCow!

              Make excuses all you want but we know better, been done before and will be done again here and abroad. Syphilis anyone? I can go on…

      65. Donald Canaday

        your site is under attack.when i clicked to listen to your broadcast stream “file not found error code,404″if you have a mall-ware,or virus checker,log on from a different location,and see if your audio streamed is being blocked.

      66. 41MagMan

        The very best additional mouth that can be added for security purposes is a good dog. A dog’s senses are WAY better than any human, they sleep very lightly, and they will go to the door or window where an intruder is attempting a silent entry. I’m not saying that additional people would not be useful, just that there’s a place in all this SHTF planning for man’s 2nd best friend.

        • REB

          Ill take your word for it…my dog will lie there and sleep whilst deer eat my corn 10 ft away…even the bear wont get her attention…guess I need a new dog… 🙂

          • don't tread

            I hear you REB. My 25 lb. Feist/mix was a wolf when I first brought him to the retreat. He tackled a ground hog about as big as he is and locked onto it like a pitbull. It took about ten minutes but he finally choked it to death. Two years later, after getting pummeled by an aggresive momma deer and playing mexican stand-off with the mean,teethflashing raccoons; he just crawls under the porch when anything bigger than a bunny shows up and keeps ‘verrrry quite’. I won’t ever get rid of him but his name “Bear” might get changed to “kitty”.

      67. LauraluvsJesus

        I’m so terrified.I am a poor college student and I don’t have the money to buy all of these prepping supplies! I want to take to the woods and hide when it all goes down. My mom need medicine to keep her alive…whatis she gonna do?! I’m gonna buy a handgun asap and try ro start saving rice,beans, etc.Also I think I can get some MRE’s from my uncle. Any other suggestions for a low income person who lives in the suburbs? I hope the Lord just comes and takes me home before i have to see my family and I suffer! I have nightmares and nobody believes me about all of this stuff thats going to happen soon.

        • Trusting Him Whatever Betides!

          You have to put your trust in the Lord. He knows exactly what you NEED. Even when you do not have the means, the Lord is still able to take care of you. The Lord does not take pleasure in the legs of a man, that is, in a man’s strength, but He takes pleasure in those that hope in His mercy. Look unto Him and hope in His mercy towards you and towards your family.

          Practically speaking, prepare day – by – day, and you will see that gradually your supplies will increase.

          If you must stay put in one place, build or find a safe room/hiding place in your home to go to in the case intruders come into your house.

          Focus on the essentials and once the essentials are covered, go for the things to eat that will not lead to appetite fatigue.


          1) Water, Water, Water. Unscented bleach or pool shock to purify bad water.

          2) Oatmeal/Raisins, Canned Fruit, Canned vegetables.

          3) Potato Flakes, dry beans and canned beans, nuts, seeds, Rice.

          4) Flour, and Red Hard Winter Wheat to grind into flour or to sprout for a nutritious vegetable when needed. If you ever do have money to buy a wheat grinder, buy a manual one in case the electrical grid goes down. I know a girl who has used her electric blender to grind wheat and it has worked for her.

          5) Sell the stuff that you do not need. If you live in a city, find stuff in your house or during garbage nights on the curbs to take to sell at local flea markets in order to buy more prepping items. On a good Saturday, you can make more than four hundred dollars in just eight hours, if you set up your table with the right junk to sell.

          6) Spices, herbs, and condiments to make things taste better.

          7) Educate yourself by reading books, and visiting websites like this one. Watch YouTube video recordings concerning food storage, and other survival skills.

          8) Never tell any one that you have food storage. The poorer you appear now to those around you, the safer you will be when something does happen. Since you are poor at this time, go to all the Food pantries in your area, and be honest with them if they ask if you go to any other pantries. Let them know that you do and that you need to go to each one that is available on account of your situation. Look for things at these pantries that you can use to store long term such as honey, sugar, salt, rice, PASTA, dry milk, etc.

          9) Buy spaghetti sauce to use to make your dry goods taste better. But do not buy Hunts Spaghetti Sauces, because they have High Fructose Corn Syrup in them
          Save any glass jars from the store, and use them to store away rice, flour, potato flakes to keep bugs out of these things. Or use them for food that you dehydrate. Learn how to dehydrate, make a sun oven, and learn how to can using a pressure cooker and a water bath.

          10) Start collecting Mason jars at garage sales, and make sure their rims are free of cuts or else you will invite botulism into your food, and you will die from it.
          Buy canning lids.

          11) Go to garage sales, auctions, flea markets and thrift stores to buy a lot of your preps cheaply.

          12) WOOL BLANKETS. They will save you from freezing to death in the case of a power outage in the winter. Any Polypropylene long underwear that you can find buy.

          13) Wood matches, lamp oil, oil lamps, lamp wicks, flashlights, batteries, solar radio, lighters.

          14) Start prepping now by finding things in each room of your house that will be good to have in case something terrible does happen. Then, put these things in one area so you will know where to find them when they are needed.
          Then, later you can divide these things and put them throughout the house in hidden places so you do not lose every thing in the case your place is robbed.

          15) Go to the Dollar Tree to buy rubbing alcohol, baby lotion, hydrogen peroxide, aspirin, Tylenol, cotton swabs, cotton balls, and other things that you might need such as bandages.

          16) WASHCLOTHS!!! Learn how to make your own soap detergent, and buy a washboard.

          17) Learn essential life – saving skills. Keep a first aid book. Learn how to plant a garden and learn how to container garden if your space is limited.

          I feel the same at times, that is, I hope the Lord comes soon to take me away too. And maybe He will come soon, but since HE has not come yet, we must be wise and prepare.

          18) Build yourself a good home library. Buy a lot of books for cheap. Always continue to learn. Look for games and art supplies to keep you busy and occupied especially if we do not the computer any more to use.

          Finally, this list is not complete, and it is good that you are young and awake, and you still have time to prepare. Just keep going forward each day, and after awhile when your preps are built-up, your anxiousness will decrease dramatically.

          Be patient. It takes time to build-up a good supply. And you can do it day-by-day.

          Pray to the Lord about every thing, and He will direct your steps.

          Keep all of your food preps in a dark, cool place, and learn about mylar, and five gallon buckets, and oxygen absorbers.

          Oh, yes, learn about bug-out bags. And always have a King James Bible in each bag.


        • HolyCow!

          Are you serious? Don’t know where you live but don’t be terrified, if you love Jesus don’t you think He loves you way more…pray and ask Him for wisdom and give your fear to Him. Go apply for food stamps if you really in need and begin buying freeze dried beans, lentils, canned foods with long self life, gallons of water etc. Each weak spend $10 for food to store away. Buy seeds (not GMO) to use as barter or plant for food later. Become pro-active. Your youth ought to be an advantage not a liability. Read up, learn some skills like cooking from scratch, gardening, “hunting” or ? Be wise and diligent, pray and prepare!

      68. Eminem

        Unfortunately, this type of community cohesiveness will be the exception rather than the norm. Perhaps a more realistic approach would be for people to join a dedicated prepper community that is built in advance for just that purpose rather than cobbling together support from their existing neighborhood. Also as soon as you’re dealing with a group, there’s going to be politics and vying for power with all the wanna be alpha-males and egotists on the block. That could turn ugly very quickly.

        • Survivor Mike

          The only issue with a prepper community may be the fact that you are revealing yourself to a larger audience. This could result in exposing a weakness and inviting trouble. Just my 2c.

          • convinced2day

            you gotta trust someone…. live together, die alone. but I do see your point.

      69. Butch

        I agree that there is power in numbers. But in my area the neighbors seem weak and uninformed. We will be willing to help them if the SHTF, But I can’t trust them at the moment. They would think Im a crazy man.
        What I have done is assembled a team of around 12 like minded people who will Bug Out to my compond if anything happens. They all live 1 tank full or less away. At worst a 2 day hike. They all have a certain skill set. We have farmers, builders, hunters, fighters. We are looking for a Dr. or veterinarian to join the group.
        My advice is to build a group instead of setteling for the group around you. When TSHTF I beleive we will get many New Believers in the nieghborhood who will want to contribute. We will take them in trade for their service to the collective.

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