Blame It On the Economy: Catalytic Converters, Copper Plumbing and Central Air Conditioning Top Thieves’ Most-Wanted Lists

by | Nov 30, 2011 | Headline News | 77 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    There is a crime wave developing across the nation, and as the economy worsens, so too will the levels and severity of criminal behavior.

    Catalytic converters, copper plumbing and even central air conditioning units have topped some thieves’ most-wanted lists in recent weeks as they hope to cash in on rising scrap metal prices.

    Area police say the recent rash of metal thefts likely is a reflection of the sluggish economy and are warning homeowners and residents to take steps to protect their property.

    In the last month, eight catalytic converters, a pollution-control device that helps reduce vehicle emissions, have been cut from six vehicles at Waikem Auto dealerships in Perry Township. It’s not the catalytic converter part, however, that is luring thieves to Waikem’s lots: It’s the metals inside them.

    Catalytic converters contain metals such as palladium and rhodium.

    You can blame it on the economy. People don’t have jobs, and scrap is at a peak right now,” said Doug Waikem, co-owner of Waikem Auto Group.

    Thieves are removing the catalytic converters by unbolting them or cutting them loose with a reciprocating saw. It’s a job that takes a minimum of a half hour to complete, Waikem said. The problem has become so serious Waikem has been forced to beef up security around his car lots.

    “If we find these people, we will use every weapon in our arsenal to see that they are prosecuted,” Waikem said. “For us, it’s not about getting our money back, it’s about setting the right example.”

    Police say the best way to avoid being victimized is to remove any opportunity for a potential thief to strike a home or business.

    If you have a house that is unoccupied. I would try to secure it as best you can, whether it’s a dead bolt lock or an alarm system,” DiLoreto said. “Check on it more often because sometimes they don’t check that for a while.”

    Also, homeowners are advised to park their vehicles inside a garage and close the door and to report any suspicious activity that they observe, Pomesky said.

    “The best thing is for people to be active and watch their (neighborhood),” Covert said.

    Source: IndeOnline

    In addition to metals, and especially around Christmas time, criminals will start turning to residential areas to get their fix. Anything of value is up for grabs. Recently, in a quiet suburb of Houston, the home of a friend and those of several of his neighbors were broken into by an organized band of thieves who, in broad daylight, kicked in the doors and grabbed everything of value that was easily accessible. Police suggest that the thefts took less than 2 minutes per home, and the attacks were coordinated to happen all at once. Even with alarms, there was no stopping them, as the alarms had a 30 second delay, giving them even more time to ransack. It’s a sad state of affairs when thieves are willing to risk prison time for a flat screen TV or video game system.

    We will see these sorts of daytime robberies increase going forward, which means if you want to keep your assets safe, be sure to either keep a portion off-site, or well-hidden in and around your home in obscure, hard to access places. This will at least protect you (to some extent) from the smash-and-grab type of burglary described above. The last thing our readers need is for thieves to make off with the supplies they’ve spent years to acquire – especially at a time when those supplies may start coming in handy.

    It’s no wonder that Americans are stocking up on weaponry and ammunition at an unprecedented pace.

    Stay safe, stay vigilant.

    Hat tip Mike


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      1. I’m going to miss those golden days when I could leave the front door unlocked.

        • That ended long ago. Sometime in the early 1980’s or so, if I remember it right (and in some of the neighborhoods I spent my childhood in, the mid 1970’s).

          Metals have been high on the list of theft targets for quite awhile up here, mostly because the scrap yards will pay quite a bit for it. It’s a popular target for junkies out to make a quick fix.

          Back when my wife was big into the ghost-hunting thing, we walked through a fair amount of graveyards, a few of which showed signs of having brass plates torn off of headstones. The strange thing is, they avoided the massive cast-aluminum headstones. I guess they don’t quite know what they are…

          There have been people killed while trying to steal cables from the transit lines (600 volts will do that to you), rail sections, you name it.

          • It’s amazing since I think metal prices are down a bit from where they were when silver touched $50.

            I save up bits and pieces, for a while had a friend paying me to take test equipment apart and he’d let me keep the wire and cases etc too, I’ve carried 60lbs of recycleables on my bicycle.

            Normally it’s only work for junkies and those willing to work for very little.

          • This is nothing new here, not at all. We have been having to deal with this for 5 or 6 years. The local scrap yards are the largest problem. Although they are policing them with new regs they know who the thieves are and just send them around the back out of the surveillance cameras view. Who are the copper thieves? We call them tweekers, methtrons, methmonsters, (meth addicts) but mostly moving TARGETS. The county Sheriffs here are really proactive with land owners here. They know if you call them it will be close to 20 minutes before they get to you. The Deputies know who the problems are. They have continuing contact with them. Gas theft has been the coming new thing here. We had a late night visitor 2 weeks ago. They drained a boat and a SUV. The deputy said if this happens again; go back into the house with that shotgun empty. We will find him at the hospital as they are picking the shot out of his back. It lets the others know in the area, if you go, you might get peppered. He said there are two things that scares the living shit out of a tweeker, a big friggen dog and a shotgun. If he shows up again, he’s in for a big surprise. I’m looking for him too!

            • I was going to say, also, that this is nothing new, however, it is getting worse. …and will for a while. When a welfare class dies and simply becomes poor they turn to crime first before they finally realize that honesty and hard work will get them farther ahead. A few never learn it but most eventually turn from crime. But, it will take a while. We have multiple generations of CoCo puffers in my area and it will take them a while. In the meantime, guard your exhaust systems!

          • an occultist? let’s all just go ahead and try to make contact with demons. sounds like somebody needs a little bit of jesus in their lives.

          • oh man, USA has a long way to go still 😀
            CM (coloured metals) theft is one of the prerequisites of prioSHTF situation. in Lithuania we had CM theft spike during post soviet phase, when total collapse of judiciary and monetary systems took place. right now, when the said collapse is happening again, so does the CM theft.
            look out for more when it is not only junkies that do that, but also previously normal people start to rip the CM all over the place. when you about some guys being burned to death at the electric transformers (or high voltage lines as mentioned by OQ) because of Cm in them, then you know you hit that “lithuanian third world bottom”
            then there will be a surge of dismantling of abandoned or foreclosed or otherwise not supervised buildings and houses.
            and then… well… what other lows can we hit after that? a full and complete SHTF to follow, because I do not believe that we can “recover” from this orchestrated crisis… oh, should have said – TPTB don’t want us to recover…
            I always thought that depopulation agenda in the “conspiracy theory” circles was nuts, because I thought – who in their right mind would want to destroy the population of slaves. now I know – 1 billion slaves is just enough … who needs 6 additional billions, those 6 billions are a liability, nothing more. so there we go, depopulation in full swing… one little step at the time, so that the sheople don’t mind the inconvenience

            • +1000 to Glurza.

              I never recycled in my life until this year. I’m not a junkie etc., but this is the first period in my life where I’ve been happy to work for $10 for the day.

              Good tip on metals thefts spiking just before things get interesting.

              We need all the Eastern European/post-Soviet viewpoints we can get on here.

      2. That was so long ago, I’m not sure I remember them.

        I live in a poor rural area. Several years ago the state started to replace the old bridges with the new, earth quake proof bridges.

        The first night the equipment was left out, they lost lots of tools, a generator and , believe it or not, a big crane.

        After that they put all the equipment into a metal net. Then raised it in the 30 foot in the air with another crane and the crane was sitting on the end of the bridge over looking the river.

        That was before the crash of 08, I can’t tell you how bad it is now.

        But I am prepped and fortified at our bol.

        God bless and keep on prepping.

        • i live in an isolated rural county in the south…i got laid off from my job in 08 cause of the housing crunch..yeah i worked in the home building and supply business. for twenty plus years i did not need to lock any of the doors except the outdoor tool sheds. then i started noticing that things were out of whack…no, nothing in the house was moved, out of place, stolen…but, my deep freezer is located just inside the back door that everyone uses…and lo and behold, someone was just reaching in and pilfering the random lb of burger or fish sticks or whatever. not finding a new job i am at home alot these days but let me tell you things are locked and double locked at all times. the guns are loaded and although my dogs are regular pussy cats, they look and sound mean and they are trained to alarm and protect.

          • Cary you might want to try to find out who it is, it might be someone who’s really hungry, and whom you know. They might see your full freezer, and feel their empty tummy, and figure you won’t miss the random package of meat. It might be a kid getting no food at home.

      3. “Police say the best way to avoid being victimized is to remove any opportunity for a potential thief to strike a home or business.”

        I got a different way to deal with this

        you see in this world theres two kinds of people my friends.
        Those with loaded guns, and those who dig..

        they gave a warning to homeowners and residents to take steps to protect their property. the above is my way.

        I look at it like this, If they are braizen enough to storm my house and break down the door at any time of the day OR night..they need to be reminded who lives there in the harshest way possible or this will get completely out of hand , if it hasent already!
        I have a wife and child to protect…Period, end of the nice story
        I dont care what their “reasons” are for breeching the sanctity of my castle.

        whats left I’ll let my dog play with..I dont treat him bad,but he might just be a bit hungry, and I might just be a bit crazy..take yer pick

        dieing aint no way to earn a living

        • Brilliant quote my friend!

          • I knew I had heard it somewhere in my younger years..I love that mans Movies..too bad it seems to be going back to those kinds of days

          • here is the sad reality in most places in this country now a days. Had the home owners bullet hit and either injured or killed one of the perps while they were fleeing and outside of his garage….he would of went to prison.

            • Some yes and many not.

              Worry more about the rounds that missed and that neighbor might be hit. That is real difficult to defend yourself from if you fired the round.

          • Did four armed pussies just run away from one armed homeowner… or was I seeing things?

          • Beefcake

            Loved the video, we had the same problem here in my hometown until they broke into the wrong house. The homeowner heard them break in he grabbed his 9mm and opened fire being a bad shot he never hit them but he did end up chasing them down the street shooting at them. End of home envasions. What pisses me of about this video is did you see the bad guyes car? Damn I still drive a old 92 chevy pickup and a old 87 300zx. Guess they have to steal to pay the bankers that steal from us.

          • How do the cops not find that particuar model and color car with bullet holes?

            • Did you not bother to watch the video? They found the car shortly after.

        • Here’s another classic Eastwood quote relevent to how to deal with someone caught in the act of stealing your stuff. “I know what you’re thinking. “Did he fire six shots or only five?” Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky?Well, do ya, punk?“

          • u suk moon beam .

          • That was before 454 Casull. (sp?)

            • yep you spelled Casull right and that thing makes an M1911 feel like a .22 target pistol.

      4. —-Blame it on the economy?—-

        Sorry!!! In reality, the economy is merely a “symptom”, we must identify the disease!

        I blame it on a corrupt executive branch & congress, both of which are controlled by a certain “nefarious tribe” issuing the orders/decrees from Wall Street!
        The Amerikan economic condition is merely a reflection of decades worth of “EQUITY STRIPPING” at the behest of these cretins!

        —over 60,000 factory closures & counting—!!!

        See NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, the WTO treaty & a manifold number of similar acts. See the criminal Federal Reserve policies, which when combined with the above…have hi-jacked the birthright of our children & grand-children.

        ——-and Goddammit(*)—-I want some payback——-!!!

        (*) Forgive me Lord, let me rephrase that…..

        —Please grant me the opportunity to serve on the coming “ALL NIGHT FIRING SQUADS”, so as to mete out justice to those who serve Baal-Mammon-Satan—


      5. lol…stay off my lawn!

        ok back to being serious about this
        problem have no way of knowing the intruders intent..if they will take the steps to bust your door down, they will put a bullet in your head or your family’s heads..and or what ever else..and Im just not going to let that happen on my watch.

        I have stopped leaving my truck outside..this is the first year in living here in over 14 years at this residence that I have put it inside.

        Im not going to divulge what I have to stop them with…but lets just say it will all get the job done, and I used to work in a slaughter house as a kid, so mopping up blood and guts wont really bother me much, I just wouldnt want my kid or wife to see it..

        Look at it like this people
        does a theif tell his wife, ” hey im going out to pillage rape and steal tonight..if i dont come back home call the cops..ill be at this residence”

        no they dont..I wont say much more, i think if you have half a brain you can fill in the rest of the story

        Hey I said i was a bit crazy

      6. The theft of copper wire and other such metals has been ongoing in my state for years. There has been an upswing in the thefts (according to the LEOs) in the past year or so.

        As for someone foolish enough to try to kick in the door here… well, there is the castle law.

      7. Now I lay my rifle down to sleep
        My aim I pray my life will keep.
        If Im just a little high,
        let me catch’em in the eye.
        Lord, thanks for a steady hand today,
        So that together we can make bad men pay.

        • Amen

          • You mean, Aim-en =)

      8. copper thefts are still ongoing here in the piney woods of ms. theives looking for copper have been completely stripping homes, churches and businesses and some places get hit twice before they learn that you cannot trust anyone anymore with any thing any where.

      9. @ rich and bear Just get the fuck off this website. You might think you`re a intellectual geniuses [ And I am not] But it is braindead individuals such as yourself that are destroying this country.You think you are toy’ing with peoples minds, well the DFL & GOP have totally FUCKED this country for decades. So just go supporting the stattus quo until the GOLDEN HOARDES come down your road and destroy your little world.

        • r u gay?

      10. How much are night vision goggles and body armor? Can I get them used? Where? Trying to prepare on a limited budget.


        • Haven’t yet responded at all to the things BEAR posts, but I have wondered if:

          1. He is intensely unhappy.
          2. He would like to belong to something/somebody, but has never learned how to approach people in a positive manner.
          3. He was previously bashed by some form of group, maybe in school, and the bashing he dishes out now is how he perceives/registers some form of releasing of his former hurt…a “payback” if you will.
          4. Last of all, if he is a “government agitator.”

          Bear, we would seriously welcome you with open arms, but, as with all civilizations, there is a need to be civil. To counter your response regarding free speech, I must add that there is always room for civility in free speech.

          If you could teach us or share something useful, something that could maybe even save a life down the read, we would be very interested to what you have to say.

          Unfortunately, with the manner you now post, the most you can hope to achieve is a cursory eye pass to see your “signature” and then moving on to friendlier, more helpful things.

          Bear, I am offering the hand of friendship — the choice is up to you.

          • I know. I just posted on another thread wondering why Mac lets the “jesus f@cker” comments (and the like)stay. It really makes the site, well, kind of “trashy” feeling.

            I come here to be in the company of like minded people – not to get cut down unprovoked and have my beliefs mocked. If I want that – I can go read the msm!

            • I pulled that comment NunJo… missed it in the moderation queue earlier…

      12. i just farted when u said that moon

      13. Isn’t it wonderful what Obumbler and his travelling band of cronies, crooks, czars and corruptocrats have done to this country.

      14. We have pretty serious metal-theft issue where I live. Gaurd-rails have even been stolen froma local bridge.
        I would imagine a lot of the stolen scrap is being sold to China.

      15. Greetings Everyone!
        Mark:Absolutely great topic!
        The talking heads at foxy non-news and the local “news” rarely show this kind of stuff.They DO dwell on the killings without looking into the stories.And of course praising the LEO people even when they don’t find the bad guys.I used to not believe in guns(just my feelings,not a political position).But CHANGE is coming my friends.What we see happening is the sneak preview of coming attractions.Today’s little runup at Wall Street is a suckers rally(unless you bought when it was at it’s lowest and sold for a big profit like Goldie Sakies did).The FIX is in at Federal level across the board.Nothing politically or banker-wise has changed,Europe is all but burnt toast,China is hiding a HUGE piie of dirty debt under their Communist skirts,and back here in the USA,feckless businessmen and most major Corporations are becoming total sociopaths with regards their employees.It’s all just a reflection of the worldwide collapsing of Civilization.When Rome fell(they went broke first),they took the Chinese with them(there had been brisk trade between the two before that.mostly one sided,just like today).Our current global system is utterly unsustainable.Gotta go,is going as we speak!Back in the Great Depression,many went hungry and suffered deprivation we cannot imagine,mostly because they were honest law abiding people.Today however,people will NOT repeat that scenario.Any moral restraint is long gone.Won’t matter what the skin color is,country of origin,or so-called religious background,the drugs must be paid upfront and babies need food,clothes and shelter.If they can’t be afforded by a job,then basic F.U. “lifeboat ethics” kick in.”legally” or otherwise.I’m not condoning it,just talking about it.Argentina has had similarly terrible and savage problems for decades with no end in sight.Guns might not be the best response,but it beats rape,murder and loss of what’s rightfully yours(exception:G.S. partners and their Uber Rich Ilk).It won’t matter who gets elected next,just who appoints themselves “President for the duration of the Emergency”.
        Best to All
        Hope you can stay warm

      16. This may be a stupid question, but, I’ll ask anyway. Why do most posters spell America with a k now? Did I miss something?

      17. —@ highspeedloafer—

        Its a play on words, alluding to the depth/scope of how “communism” has become so entrenched within our (now) illegitimate govt!

        …personally, I prefer to tell folks that I’m an unwilling captive/citizen of…

        ——Unified Socialist Absurdistan (aka: the USA)——

      18. Keeps me in business though it is unfortunate for the homeowner. It has gotten pretty bad where I live regarding the up for sale, empty homes. I went to service an oil fired boiler the other day and the homeowner, who is a retired plumber, told me that thieves had stolen all the piping on the boiler as well as in the house during the between-renter period. I can’t count the number of AC and Heat pump condenser units I’ve had to replace that have been ripped from the sides of homes. The insurance companies are really taking it in the shorts. It won’t be long however till they raise their rates.

        • Mine has already ben raised…$250 in one year.
          I’m paying for the Nashville flood victims..Bless their souls.

      19. Hello all, first time to comment on here. Stumbled on this site a few weeks ago, been prepping for about a year( money permitting). I think I live in a good place for SHTF, it’s pretty rural, surrounded by mountains, not near any big city, food walks around on four hooves everywhere, (people out east pay thousands to for the pleasure to come out here and kill something), and almost everybody has guns, if not outright arsenals. I believe in the NWO, and that there is a lot more at work here than a bad economy. I personally think the econimy is being ruined to bring about change. I always figured they were limited on the damage they could do, so long as we had our guns. How do ya’ll think they’ll come after the guns, and can they succeed? I know they can declare martial law, but what kind of emergency would constitute nationwide martial law? Also, where’s the best ideas on water purification, and solar-powered generators, or gasifiers. I’m trying to spend little to no money. Thanks

        • Welcome to the conversation West and thanks for commenting and sharing your ideas. ( and that goes for all the rest of you good folks out there!)

        • ——to westloper @ 12/01/11 (5:52am)——

          “How do ya’ll think they’ll come after the guns…..”

          Answer.) Whenever attempting to analyze a future course of action an enemy may take, do it from the standpoint of…”What / how would you do it if given the job.”

          Personally, I think they’ll collapse the economy suddenly & wait until there’s substantial widespread violence / riots & bloodshed due to a severe LACK OF FOOD!
          At that point, they’ll step up & announce yet another program where the FedGov will begin issuing food vouchers to all Amerikans…redeemable at all large grocery stores(protected by a massive armed-guard presence after the convoy has arrived to restock the shelves).
          The decree will be bitter-sweet for many, as the feds will attache “STRINGS”—–

          —–you wanna feed your kids? Ok, turn in your weapons & ammo. The Amerikan public will be given 2 weeks, maybe 30 days to comply!
          Oh btw, if anyone knows of someone who fails to adhere to this decree, WE WILL ALOT YOU AN ADDITIONAL 1500 FOOD-CREDITS PER MONTH WHEN YOU NOTIFY US OF THESE INDIVIDUALS. After all, they’re terrorists!


          • Hello Gunsmith, Yes I’ve thought of that. I often ask people what they’re willing to give up to provide for their family, what they’re willing to do to feed their kids. Sometimes I think the best prepping a person can do is mentally preparing for what will happen, being solid in one’s values and principles. I personally feel pretty safe here, most people here are farmers and hunters. Neighbors are pretty conservative, maybe not informed, but good people.

            Keeping my eyes open on the western front.

            • Sounds like you’re in a sweet situation Westsloper, thank the Creator for your blessings! Best of luck to you & yours!

        • Mr. westloper–I’ll ‘take another tack, Emma’, one of my favorites of James Garner—I think TPTB will not take guns; not at first; I think they will go after the manufacturers of bullets..regulations to the MAX and raise prices that only the wealthy can handle.
          (it was Murphy’s Law, in case you can’t place it)

          • Hello JJ,
            I figured that too, but figured that’d take too much time. I know Sunstein already petitioned the EPA to outlaw lead, but that didn’t go too far. Legislating or regulating firearms and ammo out of existence seems very time consuming to me, and I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out how they get our guns. Personally, I think they’re over it, they know there is too many out there already, and any attempt to mass confiscate would start a revolution. I figure they could make them pretty expensive from here on out, but I’m pretty well stocked, though a person can never have too much, I guess (money permitting).
            I just figured things would not get too bad because our guns scared them, now I think nothing scares them.

            • I got an email saying Soros was buying all the gun manufacturers. Maybe they’ll eventually just quit selling them.

      20. Talk about a turnaround! In the moonshine business they say that copper protects against lead poisoning. Lately, it’s the threat of ‘lead poisoning’ that protects your copper.

        And now, (you can’t make up stuff anywhere near as crazy as reality is)…todays top news stories…

        In the UK, a back-alley, fake ‘doctor’ has been doing plastic surgery. One woman patient ended up with cement, tire sealant, and other very unusual fillers injected into her buttocks. Kinda gives a whole new meaning to the term “get the lead out…” doesn’t it?

        NASA launched an interplanetary rover called ‘Curosity’ on a trip to explore Mars. It’s about the size of a small car and cost $2.5 Billion. It runs on nuclear generated electricity. Latest word from Detroit is, if the test run is successful, General Motors will start mass production for the 2014 model year. Cup holders are optional at $7 Million each.

        Prez Obama, in a speech, misidentified the British embassy in Tehran as the English embassy. After the speech he took the girls out for some Prussian chocolate and British toffee.(and don’t even ask what he called the Virgin Islands)

        The stock market soared yesterday after a gazillion fresh, brand-spankin’ new dollars were injected by the central banksters. Not sure if this is related or not, but Parker Bros (makers of Monopoly) has put in a competitive bid to start printing all US currency. This might not be such a bad idea. If the economy totally crashes, at least we can buy one of them tiny green houses and we won’t be homeless.

        And finally…Mega-church pastor Joel Osteen preaches to an estimated 24 Billion people each Sunday. And that’s just in the church, another half a trillion see him on tv. Now, Osteen will be the subject of a new reality show,(really). But never mind the show. Just look at that smile! All those teeth! The secret is finally out–He’s Jimmy Carter’s love child!

        • okie you are too funny I laugh out loud every time!!!

      21. As a small business owner, making multi-purpose distillation units, Copper is the metal of choice for my product.

        Lasy year, I paid $383 for a 3 foot x 3 foot, 18 guage sheet…

        I just bought a slightly larger sheet 3×4 and .094 thk.

        I’ve seen copper thefts and watched a questionable character stripping insulation off wire in his garage, don’t have a clue where he got it and I know he doesn’t work. When the home owner started asking him for help on the bills, get a job, contribute something, he and his wife (who also “couldn’t work”) left for better welfare pastures elsewhere….funny thing, after he left, thefts in the area went down….

        I do not think we can blame all of this on the economy as I’ve known people milking whatever the system for decades…knew one gal in Northern Minnesota who was divorced, had 6 kids and was tickled pink when she got pregnant with the seventh child as it meant she recieved another $150 check per month, that was around 25 years ago, I’m sure the amount is more now…like someone else previously stated, it is the system, the creation of a welfare state, where 47% of the people in this country PAY NO INCOME TAX…and many get an earned income credit check back from the Government every year, tell me how that was EARNED? And how long can the 53% of the populace, pay for all the entitled and each and every Fed created bullshit Agency, Czar and more lowly cretins in government manufactured jobs that produce nothing except a bad attitude on their parts when you talk to them. I’m tired of being the “polite” person, when we pay the taxes that support these gov. employed idots, who cannot hold any job elsewhere and they give us a hard time and the attitude that they are better than us?

        O-OH, I’m getting riled way to early, and it is the first day of December, the Month of Jesus Christ’s birth. And we have a Christmas Tree!!! No freaking holiday tree here. It is Christmas, always has been Christmas and always will be Christmas…

        God Bless everyone, even those that are calling it a holiday tree, may the good Lord do his will with all of us.

        Terry Reed

        • Just out of curiosity Terry, have you ever considered 18-20ga type 304 stainless? The only drawback would be the necessity / requirement of a TIG welder & maybe a band-saw.

          • I believe Terry does make 304 stainless units using TIG welding, as well as the copper. This offers a lower cost solution to those who don’t want to spend the money for 100% copper.

            • I can do 304L SS, and have started a small one. I am using a TIG welder and must foe the copper as well, Argon gas and ceriated tungsten electrodes for the copper. De-oxygenated copper cut pieces for weld filler and I buy de-oxygenated copper material, it is more expensive but does make for less of a PITA factor when welding. I offered the 304L SS units as a lower cost unit in comparison to 100% copper. I would be building the body (boiler) and the tower, reflux body if required and the main condensor body/shell out of the SS along with the custom flanges. For internals on the condensors, I would be using copper tube and for the packing in the column, SS material to match the tower/column. I’m not going to spend time bending 304 tubing, not a good use of time for me. Here is the problem with 304L SS, it will stain and eventually rust. albeit a small amount. Also, not sure about the bi-metal contact areas, usually sets you up fop corrosion problems in the long haul. The solution to these problems would be to go with 316L SS all the way, 100%. Major pain in the ass factor and the cost of the material soars, negating the reason I offered the stainless unit in the first place.

              Here is why I prefer to use 100% copper:
              1. It does not corrode with ethanol.
              2. Copper welded to copper, with copper will not ever give me or the customer problems. I garantee my copper product FOR LIFE, I’ll even pay to have it shipped to me and back to customer, unless you didn’t follow operational rules and melt it, or walk away from it and it has a failure due to negligence during operation. You can walk away for very short durations but when you are working with a volatile and an open flame heat source, it is imperative you pay attention.
              3. There are reasons the old “good” moonshiners made their ethanol stills out of copper. One is the reason I stated above, no corrosion, but more so than that is copper has a unique quality of “trapping” some of the contaminents out of the final product. If you want verification from a knowledgeable source I highly recommend as a resource. They will confirm this point and it is a great reference site from the technical and practical point of views.

              So, all that being said, I will make a 304L unit, but it will take hind seat behind the copper units I’m making. I have sold only the 100% copper units so far, have four I’m working on at the present in various stages of completion. from a 12+ liter size to a 60 gallon custom unit. I’ve got my welding procedure down with copper and can work on several copper units as well as “spool” pieces concurrently, if I attempt to throw 304L in the mix, I’ll be changing welding procedure and I’m not going to do it. This is my second job I do after my day job and I get up before the sun on weekends and work until after the sun sets. The interest in my product is rising and when I cannot keep up with demand, I’ll have to quit my day job. Which I would love doing as I believe in my products, I think they are superior to others I’ve seen online, I garantee them for life, they absolutely do what I say they can do and am in the process now developing a design for a miniature mole sieve to further dehydrate the ethanol from 94-95% up to 99%. I have purchased an industrial mole sieve material and will construct a copper filter type containment vessel that will be capable of being re-generated with external heat, to use again and again, untill the sieve material becomes eventually used up and you replace it with new material, so, the vessel must be capable of recovery of spent material and injection of new molecular sieve material, and will be done so any person with small wrenches is capable of doing this. Very simple.

              My day job is as a Senior Process Piping Designer and Plant Layout. For over 30 years I’ve designed all types of facilities from chemical, petrochemical, oil and gas refining, upstream and downstream, well heads to pipeline to local seperation, treatment for nastys and then for piepline to comppression and sale, also pharmaceuticals, biopharmaceuticals, water treatment, wastewater treatment, flood control facility’s….and more, I’ve worked overseas mutiple times, even in a war zone at one time.

              And in spite of all the above and the pay that came with it, I’d much rather be living on our family land, doing my animal control work, gun and edged weapon work, shooting coaching, and building my products for people that will need them when shtf…I take my concerns seriously, will be applying for the legal permit to become a small ethanol producer, it is free…I cannot dictate what someone else may do with my unit, so once it leaves my hands it is none of my business. When we have a shtf scenario, I doubt the feds will be worrying about someone doing distillation for antiseptic purposes, other medicinal purposes and or beverage purposes as people will need a relaxant during an extreme stressful environment and this may be the only way to any of the above, let alone the fuel capability.

              In summary, and sorry for being long winded.

              Yes, I’ll do a 304L unit, yes, I’m using TIG for doing either the copper or the stainless.

              No, I do not recommend the SS unit, however if someone insists, I’ll do it. May not be garanteed for life, at my discretion.

              My name goes on each and every one of these units, Mac was one of my very first customers and the driving force behind me going commercial on production. He felt the need for these products in OUR Community, i.e. the preppers (I do not like that term as I was raised to can, hunt, trap, fish, plant and to prepare for the future) I think everyone should in their own way be independent as possible and not rely on whomever.

              So here I am and I’m hoping Mac is proud of what I’m doing and the short term success so far, I’m not getting rich but am loving it, THANKS MAC for the continuous pushing and encouragement!!!

              Regards everyone and God Bless,
              Terry W. Reed
              LNL PROTEKT LLC

      22. Drudge Report today> I am gonna need another term to finish the job< You didnt deserve the first term, you stupid lying Jackass, sorry folks for the language, but the Arrogance just consumes me! I understand that (Copper is the new Gold).

      23. US economy grows, jobgrowth too. What crisis/collapse/meltdown/Armageddon?

      24. Scrap metal is the last place to get easy money, so nationwide metal thefts are out of control. I am not in the metal business but my business generates some scrap metal. For many years we sold it and considered it a little bonus for our work. Now it dissapears. Its not enough to pay a guard to watch it so they get away with it. Its also not enough to shoot the theives and go to jail so they just get away with it ,, and now I really need it where before it was just a little extra. It probably amounts to several hundred dollars a week that My business or my pocket could now use…. Its so easy,, just go to the scrapyard and show them some ID which just gets filed away and get money. Easiest money anywhere. They are also stealing cars,, worth $300 to $500 in metal, and more when they take them apart for the converter and aluminum wheels, radiator ect. If they are over 10 years old then no title is needed at least here thats the policy. So folks,, if your car is over 10 years old,,, be careful where you leave it. KF

      25. The increase in crime makes me sad, not angry.

        It says to me that people are getting more and more desperate, not that they are necessarily becoming more evil.

        I find this a signal to give more, teach more and show a better example. This means that it’s time to get involved locally and do what you can to show people ways to be more frugal and make the most of what they have.

        The time has cometo bring some old ways back in style. Teach canning, drying, knitting, sewing, gardening, building, to anyone who will listen. Cut crime by showing people another way to meet their needs.

        Obviously, this isn’t going to work for everyone, but it’s worth a try. I’m not so naive that I think the world will change by learning to grow beans on a balcony. But every person that learns to fend for themselves is a person you won’t have to defend yourself against.

        • * Daisy continues braiding her dandelion tiara *


        • you do the sprout thing…buy organic seed, sprout them….from seeds to nutritious food in about 3 days. Sprouts are actually healthier than the full grown plant, especially broccoli. And sprouting is great in the winter…fresh veggies in a short time, and the seeds store a long time if done properly. Blessings

          • Woodlander –

            I am moving in two weeks and intend to start sprouting. I have an area to set aside in the new house that will be dedicated to indoor gardening and sprouting will be a big part of that!

            Have you got a link to where you learned to do this? I’ve been reading a great dealabout it.


      26. Mr. ego maniac pres’s. goal, is to get enough of this country on living assistance in order to use them as pawns, when he is up for reelection. He will spew his mantra {The repuplicans want to take away your entitlements} and scare all the sheople into voting for him.

        This is the divine plan and he may just pull it off. Today is a dark time in this world: anger, frustration, hatred, confusion, and panic is growing more and more everyday.

        I don’t believe either party has what it takes to fix this nightmare, because no one is addressing the truth.

        A rude awakening is coming and many will react with violence. Black Friday was just a small example of human behavior at it’s worst. I can imagine what these people are capable of when they are fighting over a loaf of bread versus a waffle toaster. There will be blood in the streets and horror that is hard to comprehend.

        I am starting to tell people the truth in a hard and scary way. Prepare or you may just be a casualty in the coming dismantling of your world as you know it.

        Pray, spread the word and prepare.

      27. Ever see photos of a dump in the 3rd world?

        Ever see Camden NJ? They had a 40 year jump on industrial evisceration.

        Some places are like looking into the future.

      28. People are desperate for metal thus for money I had people dig to the bottom of a dumpster full of cunstruction stuff for a water heater that might bring 20 bucks.

      29. Our neighbors, either have their homes up for sale or have left and rented to unsavory individuals… we are on our own here. My husband bought me an MP15 for my holiday gift, and I practice often…I can hit almost any object on the first or second shot now. This is a great rifle and he is a great husband for looking after me. Thank you Father for him, my life, and my strength. God Bless, and take care.

        • DPS: Thanks, you can know a tree by its fruit, in his case he is a FRUIT! HE HAS GOT TO GO!

          • Copout,
            Yes sure I have to agree with you. I came across another video That I wanna share with the great people of this site and will do so here in a little bit, I have to take care of some stuff before the Ice storm hits here in tha panhandle. I’m thinking some fresh ground deer would sure make a good pot of chile so I’m of to pick up a meat grinder. Have a great day copout

            Always a pleasure talking to you sir


      30. I always new this cur whelp was a towelhead. No earthshaking news to me.

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