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Is Gold A Dangerous Bubble?

Mac Slavo
September 21st, 2010
SHTFplan.com
Comments (117)

With gold reaching all time [nominal] highs several times in the last few months, ABC news and mainstream media has been asking: Is gold in a bubble and should you invest?

Our view?

Gold has not yet reached a bubble, but before this crisis is over, it will – without a doubt.

Yes, it has increased some 400% over the last 10 years. It seems that early investors, those who started investing in gold post tech bubble, smelled something. Perhaps it was inflation (the same inflation that led to overvalued real estate and stock market prices), or maybe investors sensed impending doom due to unrealistic government policies.

Whatever the case, we’ve repeatedly argued that in times of economic distress, be it during the fall of Rome, the Great Depression of the 1930’s, or the recession of the 1970’s, those worried about government stability have always sought precious metals as a hedge against collapsing currencies and economies.

This time is no different. While the mainstream analysts and talking heads argue about whether or not gold has reached a bubble, we submit that until these mouthpieces for media conglomerates are all telling us that gold is the investment vehicle of the future (much like they did with real estate and stocks during their respective bubbles), gold is far from being in bubble territory.

One argument currently being made is that if you invest in gold today, you’d be buying it at historic highs. This is true, but only if we look at gold in terms of today’s dollars. In the early 80’s gold reach nearly $900 per ounce, which remained the historical high for nearly 30 years, until just recently. What most analysts fail to mention, whether due to ignorance or by design, is that since 1980 the dollar has inflated considerably and if we were to price gold in “real” terms, in 1980 dollars, the price of gold would have to exceed $2000 to reach its all time highs.

We are of the opinion that our current economic and fiscal crisis is significantly more severe than any that the United States, perhaps the world, has ever experienced. As such, considering that gold hasn’t yet even reached it’s all time high in real terms, calling it a bubble is a bit premature.

The global economy, with the U.S. leading the way, will continue to deteriorate for the next several years. As investors get spooked in real estate, stocks and eventually bonds, there will be one final asset of safety to flock to – gold.

Before the bubble peak which will eventually happen in gold, we warn our readers, especially those with short investment horizons, that gold will be very volatile. We can expect to see downward corrections much like what we saw in the crash of 2008 – which sent precious metals on a near 30% plunge. Do not be surprised to see similar effects going forward. Nothing is certain save that we are in times of uncertainty. This factor alone is enough to cause massive fluctuations in asset prices the world over.

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Author: Mac Slavo
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Date: September 21st, 2010
Website: www.SHTFplan.com

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117 Comments...

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  1. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. Something is wrong with the video.

    BTW, I don’t hold any gold.  What good is it going to do me if TSHTF?  What good will it do anyone if they are hungry? I won’t exchange food for gold. I would exchange food for something that I need and want.  Food, alcohol and bullets.

  2. Gods Creation says:

    Who cares about gold?  The elite already own most of  it  anyway.  If you have a lot of Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Devices (FRAUDs), by all means swap them for something of value. 

    I would rather have things I know I will need and may not be able to easily acquire.  Why not buy 10 pairs of good shoes and 10 bags of socks?  How about storing up towels for the bathroom five years from now?  Why not buy a generator so you can supply yourself at least some electricity?

    I totally agree with the post that gold will not be in any kind of bubble until the MSM  starts telling people to buy it.  But gold is on the bottom of my list of things worthwhile to buy. 

    You might be amazed at how little money you will really need if you can take of your future needs now.  The perfect savings account is everything you will need to live the rest of your life.  

  3. TnAndy says:

    “The perfect savings account is everything you will need to live the rest of your life.  ”

    Which is fine for long lasting, non perishable items.  Try storing all the water melons or ice cream you will want for the rest of your life….ahahahaaaaa…..not to mention services…..can you pre-pay for the bypass surgery you might need 20 years from now ?

    Listen boys…..I’m as much a prepper as can be, hell, I have 15 years worth of toilet paper socked away…..but what a LOT of ya are ignoring is this: what happens if the poop DOESN’T hit the rotating blades ? 

    What happens if the economy simply limps along, either stagflation or drifts down 1-2%/yr for the rest of my life….and gold does what it’s done for the last 10 years….about 14% a year.

    OR let’s say the international community finally calls the ‘dollar’ bluff….and comes up with a new reserve currency that is gold or gold backed……the US has to join in, or no more oil imports.

    Do you not think it would be handy to HAVE SOME in these cases ?

    Saying “I won’t need gold WHEN the SHTF” is about as stupid as the folks with a pile of FRNs who are convinced there is no way the shelves at the grocery store could EVER be empty.

    Some of ya’ll need to have a plan B…..unless your crystal ball is a heck of a lot clearer than mine.

  4. **JrMogamboGuru** says:

    ya sure, I’d believe ABC and the MSM knows what they’re talking about when it comes to gold…We’re Freaking Doomed! Buy all the gold, silver, lead and toilet paper you can before you CAN’T! Whoopeeeeee, this investing stuff is easy!

    P.S. Lead launching devices are also a very good investment, and there’s no bubble!

  5. Tom says:

    AU is a bubble!!!!  It’s about the size of a large barbaric marble.  People are giving it away for FRN’s & plastic digits.  Will be a beach ball when the Comex collapses.  But I hear that the recession is over…….

  6. Schaef says:

    I agree that you must own some gold (as well as a lot of silver). To the folks that say “all I need is food, ammo, etc” I ask you this: once you run out of food and ammo what will you have left to barter with? If the depression lasts long enough all of our food stores will be depleted. Of course our gold and silver will eventually be depleted as well if the hard times last long enough, but one thing you must remember is that gold and silver don’t go bad if they sit on your shelf for a couple years. Be smart. Own some precious metals. As far as the bubble, Tom hit it right on the money. Its the size of a marble right now, but soon it will be the size of a bowling ball. Once gold and the Dow Jones Industrial Average are at parity, then it might be time to think about selling it.

    That’s all I have to say about that.

  7. Dave says:

    Yes gold is a “dangerous bubble”!…to the central bankers who wish for us to remain in their FIAT racket to make interest on us.
    As long as the FED keeps printing oceans of money (and now they’re forced to since not enough are buying our treasuries), gold and every other commodity under the sun will rise.
    How anyone at this stage of the game can have a 401K and sleep at night amazes me.

  8. Tom S. in LV says:

    TIMING, TIMING, TIMING – TIMING IS EVERYTHING
     
    Tax receipts are down, unemployment is up, and the US has enormous amounts of debt that have to be rolled over.  It continues to borrow while foreign lenders are actually reducing their exposure to US liabilities.  The Fed is buying its own debt.  The US is printing money and trying to re-inflate the credit markets and hold off deflation.  They are also trying desperately to inflate the real estate market.  It’s a dangerous juggling act and one wrong move will result in runaway inflation.
    What are the chances that the Obama amateur hour administration will get it right?  About the same as our current interest rate ZERO!!!
    GET YOUR CASH OUT OF THE BANK
    HOLD ENOUGH TO GET YOU THROUGH 6 MONTHS OF DAILY EXPENSES.
    INVEST THE REST INTO GOLD AND SILVER. (DO THIS NOW)
    GET YOUR MONEY OUT OF 401K.  TAKE A LOAN ON IT FOR ONE; YOU’LL BE ABLE TO PAY IT BACK LATER IN INFLATED DOLLARS.  IF YOU CAN BEGIN DISTRIBUTION DO IT.  YOU MAY BE ABLE TO ROLL IT OVER INTO A GOLD IRA.  REDUCE YOUR CONTRIBUTION NOW.
    TAKE ON AS MUCH DEBT AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.  THIS MUST BE TIMED CORRECTLY TO BE PROFITABLE.  IF YOU TIME IT RIGHT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SELL SOME GOLD AND PAY THE DEBT BACK PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR.
     
    When is the right time?
    We haven’t yet experienced the end of deflation.  The M3 money supply is decreasing.  We are now at 1970 recession levels and going down with a larger population and a smaller industrial base which is at 1950 levels.  Payrolls are below this and at 50 year lows.  The planet is entering the early stages of The Obama Worldwide Depression.  It will last 10 to 20 years.  The suffering will be unimaginable.  Yes Virginia there are consequences to voting.
    The Fed will not allow deflation and will introduce liquidity into the system to ensure inflation.  Inflation is assured at around 15% and it may develop into a currency crisis.  Any rise in the interest rate to temper inflation will be a crushing hammer blow to an already failed economy.  Hyperinflation is always the result of a currency collapse.  In the event of a currency collapse only gold will have any value.  The dollar has already declined by 99% against gold since the establishment of the FED.  The dollar is the weakest world currency and as the world’s reserve currency it will suck everybody down when it collapses.
    Watch the bond market.  As the price of bonds go up the US will be further forced to monetize its debt.  The more monetization the more potential inflation.
    Be aware of sovereign debt defaults.  These will cause the dollar to temporarily strengthen as money is moved out of risky investments.  The velocity of money will increase and a desperate move into gold, silver and other commodities will result causing their prices to skyrocket.  Confidence in currencies will begin to fall.  The US currency will be exposed as worthless and a US currency crisis will result causing a hyperinflationary spiral.
    That is when the time is right.  Watch the price of gold as it is the beacon and the herald.  If you have prepared you will survive, if you have not then you will suffer.
     

  9. Comments…..
    Goldenfoxx
    September 21st, 2010 at 9:35 am
    Comments….. Something is wrong with the video.
    BTW, I don’t hold any gold.  What good is it going to do me if TSHTF?  What good will it do anyone if they are hungry? I won’t exchange food for gold. I would exchange food for something that I need and want.  Food, alcohol and bullets.

    BINGO!!

  10. Comments…..
    Gods Creation
    I’d imagine any one with the access to lots of gold already has taken care of the things you mentioned or they are on the ‘stupid’ list…
    Although a neighbor’s sister, another neighbor, has 160,000 in 401 K…think she’ll enjoy eating those paper bills when TSHTF??

  11. Luckycharm says:

    For those that can afford its a good diversification in your financial portfolio .It beats the interest the banks are paying in your savings account  and if you need it, you will have it directly, no need to wait for a bank holiday or limited withdrawl amounts or locked up in  bank owned security deposit box . Never have all your eggs in one baskit anyways  .
    I really think that in the near future we will have dollar devaluation and eventually a new currency or a new money sustem to stsrt the ponzu scheme going for another 150 years .But an ounce of Gold 2000 years  is still an ounce  of gold today  and through  its history ,its held its value and adjust itself to inflation . Paper fiat money  just comes and goes . 

    for those that can not afford it,you have silver and other commodities, like guns, ammo, food, water, toilet paper .Even if SHTF doesnt come, it can always be used up and not go to waste . Better to have somethign than nothing.  Rest assured, we will be involved in some hugh serious Wars in the future and more than likely have more natural disters .Even if its for SHTF scenerios, its good for natural events as well.

    Benefits of a gold investment is that the Government doesnt know you have it yet . If you need to go to an old folks home or your medical treatments  are stste required or you get unemployed  or you file bankrupsy or you need food stamps, they see in your bank accout you have nothing  ,no savings and no checking are bare minimal .Because the firsdt thing they do is check to see what assetts you own and how much money you have  in your accounts and they will take that .But with a gold investment its not the books, your broke according to thier records .  Another thing about it in case you get sued in court ,You will show no cash  or money in your banking  accounts .  So it also protects you in certain ways to were with cash, you cant do it . Something to think about .

    People say if i buy some its not secure in my home. Simply bury it somewere , gold wont rust .Some people i know have it hidden spots in thier house  , ground floor safes ,removable woodtrim that has a spot, its unlimited if you think about it .

    Gold and silver has its place as an investment . Its been around for 5,000 years and it will be with us as long as we walk this earth. Can you say the same for paper money ? 

  12. Tom says:

    Another hard blip on the USD Index 3PM EST.  There’s your starting of a bubble…  Maybe #1 was speaking on tv.  Will be interesting to watch paper Au separate from physical.  That will be the beginning of the end for FRN’s.  Grab a hold of the horns & ride the bull. 

  13. Tom says:

    The Feds (FMOC) just spoke on QE.  Au floor is not believing it.  They are buying it.

  14. Hammerun says:

    Bubble this, bubble that, if our money crashes I want a house full of it. Gold, silver, food, hard assets, barterable trade knowledge, machines, guns, ammunition. Take your pick; it’s all going to be needed. If someone wanted to stop this country in its tracks, the most simplistic way is to “stop the fuel trucks” and we are dead in the water. EVERYTHING; you have in your possession at one time or another was in the back of a truck. Stop the trucks and were set back 150 years and back to basics. I don’t know if this will happen but I know for a fact it has been looked at.  Here’s a simple test. If the grocery stores all closed tomorrow, how long would you and your family last?

  15. Bill says:

    We have gold and will continue to have gold.  If TSHTF gold probably won’t be worth much but TnAndy is correct.  What if we just continue to limp along and gold does continue to rise?   I’m covered then.  I believe anything can happen but I won’t put all my 401 into toilet paper.  It’s insurance just like TP, lead or beans. 

  16. Imports? says:

    What imports? USA doesn’t need to import anything.

    The foreigners will beg USA to buy their stuff, with paper scrip, wampum, or whatnot. USA has no reason to get into gold.

  17. Tom says:

    I smell 1300 & holding at the end of the day real soon.  Let’s see if Ag can hold above 21 closing.  PPT is at work with fingers and toes in the holes.

  18. sittinguy says:

    For all of you that think Gold is a waste. You are wrong. Here’s my opinion.
    For 1, if you don’t have any yet,,, your to late. Buy some Silver.
    And 2, my Gold is for AFTER, TSHTF. After things calm down and all the sheeple are in Fema camps. I will break out the Gold and it will help me get back on my feet.

    By the way I got most of my Gold back in 2000. Under $300 an oz.

  19. Dennis says:

    Bubble???  They would like you to think so.  That way you remain a supporter of gold’s competition: FRNs.  Don’t forget, this time it’s a battle between the $$ and gold and the battlefield is worldwide.  The rest of the world has all the $$ they really need.  Even Bangladesh (can Americans even find it on a map?) bought 10 tons of gold from the IMF.  They are concerned with  holding only paper in their reserves.  They’re smarter than most Americans.  No, it is not a bubble and won’t be until you see Americans lining up 200 deep to buy a gold coin.  When that time comes and believe me, the price will be multiples of today’s, it will be time to get out.  As Soros said, “Gold is the ultimate bubble.”  Got GOLD!

  20. Tom says:

    I’m getting stimulated & I don’t own any.

  21. Hammerun says:

    Here’s an idea that some of you might want to consider. Some reading this wont have any idea what I am talking about but there again others will.
     Hypothetically; if this whole thing falls over and goes south we are in a whole new world of shit. We are so accustomed to if we need anything we just go out to the stores and get what we need or want, right? Suppose just for a second, that we can no longer do that because it’s not available. We will be left to own devices. So you need this part for your car or a machine you have or anything for that matter. But there’s no place to get it. What to do? But there’s this dude down over here that has a junkyard. Maybe he’s got something. See where I am going with this? I have watched this for 10 years and seen how it happens. My father in law owns a junkyard and has for 40 odd years. Not just cars but everything and anything. I have seen 1600 tons of steel in that yard at one time. Cash happened in that yard everyday. Some days $20 or $30 bucks and other days thousands. Even in these days people if they can’t find it, they will look for it. And a junk yard is a good place to start.  Keep in mind I never got along with my father in law, I thought he was an asshole and he was. But that said we were (my wife and I) stunned to see the amount of money that ran thru this place. Not only was his property and assets paid off but there was $755,000 is cash in his drop safe. All of a sudden I started looking at the junkyard thing in a whole new light. He hasn’t got much time left and it will soon be ours. And we have been wondering what to do with it. I think we are going to continue it as it was. We have seen how it was done and the capabilities of it, plus the fact I have a complete machine shop sitting there in storage in 4 shop buildings.  Gold or junk, either or? There are advantages to both and we have both. But I think I would be more comfortable in the end with the junk.
     

  22. mushroom says:

    gold and silver are bubbles just like the tech stocks were. gold will crash to near zero when the economy gets rolling again. i have faith in the dollar. i save every dollar i can. listen to the white house finance experts like orzag and summers. these guys are geniuses and i belive them…

  23. Durango Kidd says:

    Alot of good comments. Gold is not for barter when the shtf, so do your preps. Changes are coming. Precious metals, particularly physical gold, is a good way to store a portion of your wealth, to preserve some of your wealth, through the changes.

    Read SHTF America, Econ page. All of the central banksters, even Bangaldesh, are buying gold, and even at these prices. When the NWO presses the reset button, precious metals, particularly gold, will be revalued upward, and dramatically. If that were not true why would Russia and China be buying ALL of their own gold production?

    Reason enough to audit US gold supplies.

    Mac has got it right. And gold will be too valuable for trade or purchase, when the shtf.  Use silver, or extra commodities for that.

  24. Scar says:

    Just have gold and silver. Don’t even worry about food, water, seed, water purifiers, weapons, ammo, medicine, bandages or any of that lot. All you’ll have to do is wait for the collapse and buy it from the suckers who don’t have gold. Wheee! This investing stuff is easy, just like the Mighty Mogambo said!

    Man, it’ll be great! When Gold hits $10,000 per ounce you’ll be rich!! When bread is $50 per loaf and gas is $300 per gallon you’ll end up being the smart one, yes siree. Everyone who didn’t buy gold and silver will be patiently sitting in their hovels or caves waiting to starve to death and you’ll be living large….party central time, boys!

    You’ll be able to buy a house for next to nothing and all the stores and/or barter towns will be eager to accept junk silver and small denomination gold pieces for their goods because all Americans, of course, know what actual PM’s look like and what they’re worth. And most Americans are professional assayers who will be easily be able to determine phony gold and silver from the real thing and accept your coins.

    That goes without saying.

    Yep, you’ll sure be on easy street when all this happens! And  be able to gleefully point that out to your starving, angry and jealous neighbors and fellow townsmen on how clever you are.  You can set up your own bank for G-D’s sake! All the booze and young girls you want, just because you had the foresight to buy gold and silver now.

    I bet you all can hardly wait. 🙂

  25. Bret says:

    Comments….Lots of short memories here. Remember when silver got up to 50 bucks an ounce? Remember when gold got up to 850 and plunged to 250 in a matter of months? Remember when the Dow broke 12000 10 years ago? Remember when the Govt confiscated gold during the Depression? Remember when beanie babies were selling for over a hundred bucks? Remember when nothing happened after Y2K? Remember when your house doubled in value only to plunge to 50% of what you paid for it? Remember when Nasdaq broke 5100 in year 2000?
    Be very careful of the financial opinions given here. Short memories can lead to painful losses.

  26. Tom says:

    You entertain us mushroom…. Most of us enjoy the comedy channel.  I’m serious…..  DK, good on you.  Wisdom at it’s best.  Scar, what are you mad at?  We are with you.  I’m sure that many here are more advanced.  The whole story is not written yet.  Are you ready for option B & C and a back up later on in life?

  27. wooba says:

    I go along with TnAndy, if you don’t own gold your an idiot!

    Do you have savings in the bank? How do you pay your bills if you don’t, how will you replace the engine in your vaunted BOV without money? So you hold wads of cash then do you, and what’s happened to your cash value over the last 4 years?

    I’ll tell you dopey, it’s gone backward because the engine rebuilder has put his prices up and your cash is still the same. My gold has trippled though and will always be there, unlike your worthless dollar savings.

    People also should realize that gold has only gone up 400% in US$ terms. Here it’s 300% and in euro land less than that. It is in America where the carnage in currency is happening. If Andy bought $20,000 worth of gold back in the day it is now worth $80,000. So who is left behind? And it’s not a house or shares, it’s liquid money he can exchange for paper if he wants at a minutes notice. At any bullion dealer or coin shop across the nation.

    Wake up you dolts.

  28. Sam says:

    Comments…..Gold is way under valued, the reason it’s held back is due to the manipulation of paper gold which makes look like there’s hundred times more gold out there. Did you hear the story about the bellhop who bought the hotel he worked at with one gold coin he purchase prior to hyperinflation.
    Mushroom, the handle suits you well, always sitting in the dark and being fed BS.

  29. Anonymous says:

    Gold?  No.  

    The Federal Reserve Note is in the bubble.   It’s a worthless piece of shit, just like that dumbass Obama.   You know, that lying son of a bitch created by the CIA, whose mother liked to sleep around with CIA connected operatives.  Yep, Barry Sortero, that’s the guy.

  30. Tony says:

    Gold…
    You can’t eat it, shoot with it, or cook with it,  maybe just barter with it. Thats about it. Gold is in a bubble if you ask me. When the shtf  it wont do anything for you. Other than make you more of a target.

  31. Durango Kidd says:

    Wooba: Just to add to your comment, that “currency carnage” in the US and also in Europe must continue if either is to become competitive with China and other third world producers. There is absolutely no way around that, so the only question is whether it happens quickly in a collapse or with a thousand cuts. Either way the price of gold goes up.

    Bottom line, the price of gold must continue to rise in dollar terms over time, and with the Euro too for that matter. Eventually, when all is said and done, the dollar, the euro, and all major currencies will be “pegged” to the price of gold that will be “reset” by the NWO according to the precious metal ownership of the various countries, and those producers, that have the gold will rule. I.E Russia, and China, the USA, Canada and Australia.

    Europe will have to start buying some gold somewhere along that time line, because they don’t produce much of it anymore, and I don’t think they are flush with it anymore. Seems like central bankers were selling in past decades before the NWO developed a formula for “member states”.

    There are still considerable gold reserves in Central Asia, and along the border of Iraq and Iran. That, and the oil give them something to fight about if left to their own devices.

  32. Jim says:

    What’s with all the people who can’t put 2 and 2 together.

    Yes, in a panic Gold and Silver won’t be very useful.
    At that point cash (dollars) on hand will likely be paramount (until everyone wises up to the status of the dollar). Stored goods will be especially valuable, but you either did that before hand or you didn’t.

    After a bit, human commerce will commence  at a level beyond simple person to person barter. At that point we need “money”.
    Some form of money, whatever it is. Note that money and a store of wealth don’t necessiarly have to be one and the same. There could be Gold as a store of wealth (that can’t be inflated as fiat can) and there could be… paper (or sea shells… whatever) as a means of currency. The “currency” is transitory and subject to change. The store of wealth is fairly stable. The store of wealth is what’s used to settle International exchange. The local “currency” rises or falls vis a vis the world depending on how ones country fairs on a International level relative to other countries.

    Why do so many have a problem with this.
    So many on the Internet seem to think it boils down to me against the zombie hordes with no complex human enterprises operating ever again.

    To my way on thinking, even a major shakeup such as the death of the dolar would merely result in a few months of relative economics standstill.  Then folks will just get on with life and seek to establish new means of exchange.

    With 7 Billion people on this planet, either we restart commerce quickly or there’s a huge die off. That being so, there would be  this big incentive for folks to get their ass in gear and get on with life.

  33. Mariposa de Oro says:

    Tony,
    If gold is so worthless, why would anyone who has any be made a target merely for possessing it?

  34. eugend66 says:

    “The dollar is still backed by gold through the paper gold market. The externals that matter most (oil) are still cashing it in for physical gold. It is also backed by oil supporting it through pricing because trade surplus nations like China can use some of their surplus credits for oil that doesn’t come from the US. And then oil uses those credits for physical gold from the paper gold arena. But this backing is breaking down now. For others, the dollar is backed by physical cash and Treasuries which are promises to pay physical cash. If the dollar was only a digit, then those Treasuries would be worthless to the externals. ” -FOFOA.

  35. wooba says:

    Yes Durango Kidd, that’s it precicely. Even in the 1930’s, when gold was expropriated you could still own a little “legally” you could still sell it to a dealer, one or 2 coins, “every month to a different dealer”

    But there seems to be levels of delusion about all this. ¤Imports¤ up above says the usa doesn’t need to import anything? Fine if you take half the cars off the road, half the fertilizer out of farming.

    And why are people so convinced that TSHTF means a nation composed entirely of preppers, an economy based exclusively on trading bullets for beans, beans for 18th century blacksmithing jobs? I have never heard such a load of crap in all my life.

    96 out of a hundred “sheeple” could die and that still leaves millions running around doing things the non-prepper way. There will still be wares and fuel to buy, hotels, bills. There will still be a form of government, there always has been after the collapse of massive empires. And there will be a need for money too, don’t fool yourselves.

    The bullets beans etc is for you to use and perhaps trade with a neighbour. But that’s it! You want a new bank of batteries for your solar power system in 10 years time and you will need money my friend.

    Bottom line Durrango? The people that don’t advocate owning gold have never owned gold. They don’t understand it and they never will understand gold until they buy some and actually hold it in their hand. It’s like riding a bike, or SEX. You can talk about it all you like, but until you do it for yourself, you don’t really have a clue.

    Ergo… Their clueless’

    lol

  36. sittinguy says:

    Gold says,,,,, how ya like me now!

  37. RobertB says:

    @Tony
    You say: “You can’t eat it, shoot with it, or cook with it, maybe just barter with it.”
    That’s the whole point! When you can’t barter with ‘money’ or goods or services, you barter with gold.

  38. Tina says:

    I watched Mad Max (for the first time) last night.

    Prep or Not……I do not want to live in a world like that…..

  39. digitalcommando says:

    mr. wooba says holding gold in your hand is like sex. i’m gonna buy a 1 oz. american gold eagle and hold it real hard….wish me luck mr. wooba…
    p.s. i’m 85…
     

  40. TnAndy says:

    Wooba:  “The people that don’t advocate owning gold have never owned gold. They don’t understand it and they never will understand gold until they buy some and actually hold it in their hand. It’s like riding a bike, or SEX. You can talk about it all you like, but until you do it for yourself, you don’t really have a clue.”

    I’d agree….being able to hold a years salary of the typical guy in the palm of one hand ( and before long, you’ll be able to close your fingers! ) is just NOT something you can explain to people…..you have to experience it to “get it”.

    Wife of a buddy of mine was lamenting one day couple years about about her 401k that was now a 201k, and we were discussing how the stock market isn’t a place to invest, it’s a casino designed to separate the little gambler from their money…..you may get ahead a bit now and then, but basically the house ALWAYS wins in the long run…just like Atlantic City or Vegas……WHO do you dumbasses think built those casinos ?  So, anyway, she says “well what should I put my savings in”…..and I said gold….which at the time was under 900.

    So what does she do ?   Goes to some investment guru, who razzle dazzled her into his casino, and no, she never bought any gold.

    I’ve ALWAYS advocated preps FIRST…..take care of food, water, protection, debt, etc FIRST….but once you have done that ( and BELIEVE ME, I bet I’m better prepped than 99% of the folks responding here, as I’ve spent 20 FRIGGING YEARS ON IT…preaching beans, bullets and band aids to me is truly preaching to the choir ). then as some point you have to ask yourself…ok….what IF all this stuff makes for a wonderful estate sale, when what I really needed was some actual MONEY  ?

    and then you will come to precious metals.

  41. Tony says:

    Mariposa de Oro,

    There will always be people who want gold. When they have it, they dont know what to do with it. Thats why people with it will be a target, but none the less it is useless other than to maybe barter.

  42. Snarf says:

    Comments…..Wooba:  “The people that don’t advocate owning gold have never owned gold.

    Or have owned and panicked with abandonment and now are bitter. That’s OK with me as it leaves more PM’s for the rest of us to buy at affordable prices (for the moment anyway).

  43. Tom says:

    Since you don’t want it & you don’t have it and you know what to (not) do with it, you post to tell people what?

  44. mushroom says:

    all this talk about gold, silver, water, food, bullets, first aid is insane crackpot stuff. the dollars in your wallet are worth more than golld. this is the united states of america. it isn’t argentina or africa. trust your leaders like bohner mcconnell and jindal and our new leaders like palin and mcconnell. these are smart courageous elected people and they and our wall streeet bankers will protect us from those jerks who hurt us by buying houses and cars they couldn’t afford. they will guide us through this short period of minor problem.  have faith, pray. and trust america and the u.s. dollar. god bless america.

    remember gold nor silver does not have the full faith and credit of the u.s. treasury.

  45. Tina says:

    Mushroom…..I believe that the Palin, McConnel and Jindal (to name a few) are preppers….they just don’t brag about it…….

    I must ask you…..if you do not believe in being preparded then why are you on this post?

  46. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    @shroom…ya just can’t fix stupid, and you obviously qualify.

  47. Mariposa de Oro says:

    Tony,

    If gold is so useless, why do central banks around the world keep huge stockpiles of it locked away in their vaults?  Or do they just have hugh piles of Spam in there?   BTW, I have Spam AND gold…..

  48. TnAndy says:

    Ya’ll clearly don’t recognize when your chain is being jerked, huh ?

  49. Tom says:

    WOW, your still a virgin?

  50. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    @TnAndy = @shroom … looks like a circle jerk to me, I’ll just have to click the don’t notify me so I’m not informed of more useless posts.

  51. Tom says:

    lOOks like your dun, we’re taking you out of the center of the grill with tongs.

  52. TnAndy says:

    Hey, frkingbreak…..no problem.  

    Remember the words of Forest Gump’s mama.

  53. Tom says:

    Mrs. Gump: You’re gonna have to figure that out for yourself.

  54. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    Yep TnAndy…yer right, I give, uncle…I’m sorry and please forgive me…I always did like a good box of chocolates!

  55. Chris C. says:

    “remember gold nor silver does not have the full faith and credit of the u.s. treasury.” – mushroom

    That’s precisely why I buy it.

  56. MariaBigButtAroma says:

    Please SELL all of your gold and silver, mushroom is right…besides I need all of the FRNs I can get for toilet paper!

  57. Chris C. says:

    It’s taken me 34 years to realize what true wealth is. That day came when I had a gold coin sitting in my hand. With perfect clarity I see what a phony charade I’ve labored inside of my whole life. Now, if paper money were suddenly to go to zero overnight, I do not have so much to worry about.

  58. MariaBigButtAroma says:

    http://www.ovcart.com/images/inventory/8511.5168.zoom.jpg

    I’ll trade you this for all of your gold and silver…

  59. lostinmissouri says:

    Something like 95% of Americans living today, have never held a gold coin, in their hand.

    That is the scary part for this nation, considering, just 100 years ago, America was the largest nation on earth, to use gold and silver as money.

    Somehow, in less than 100 years, the PTB, convinced the vast majority of Americans to accept paper, with presidents faces on it , as money,  in place of real money….gold.

    Also, the very concept of money is, that it is a medium of exchange, and a storehouse of wealth.   Somehow, we were brainwashed into believing  that paper FRNs  were both.

    Keep your FRNs for exchange, but wise up, and store your wealth in real money….gold and silver.

  60. wooba says:

    A gold thread, and look at the number of comments, 55. 56 now, that’s more than the “sues local farmer” thread. Obviously a lot of emotiion hey.

    Two things drive people in markets and the greater is emotion. Can you believe, honestly just think for a second.. Can you believe Hundreds of millions of Americans, and English, and Japanese and Australians bid up the prices of their own homes, pushed their own property taxes up and up, to the point where their kids could not afford one?

    These people destroyed their own economies through greed and now the housing market is stuffed. When someone thinks of buying they don’t know if it’s a bargain or a rippoff? All reality is gone. The whole market is screwed.

    10 years ago the gold and silver markets began to correct. I don’t consider it a bull market, just a correction to normal long trend value. There still ok for now, but the same hoard of idiots that screwed the housing markets worlwide will most likely (not definately)one day flood into the PM market, and at that point you will have to make a decision. How much of my gold and silver do I sell to these idiots and how much do I keep. If you don’t sell you will be out of pocket after the price corrects back, and then under-shoots. Like from 1980~2000.

    I know some of us will have issue with this but it’s the smart to do. Andy, you know what I’m talking about hey? Like selling an extra house to the fools, right at the top! Nudge nudge, wink wink. And what do you do with the extra money you make, if this plays out?

    I will buy some universal trade goods. Like hundreds of 80-Watt solar panels.

  61. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    It’s amazing…people think the price of gold has gone UP!! It hasn’t changed in thousands of years. The same ounce of gold in Caesar’s day bought the same as today. A nice suit of clothes, a tie and a good pair of shoes is about the price of an ounce of gold. The price of a good toga, some sandals. In 1913 when the Fraudulent Reserve Bank was created, the price of gold was $20 for twenty paper dollars…today it takes 1295 +/- to buy the same ounce of gold. That makes your wonderful paper FRN = to 20/1295 = 0.092664093. Now that’s a great deal, eh?

  62. oneshotkill says:

    GOLD,  SILVER, BEANS, BULLETS, (toilet paper)

    This world and the United States of America are so populated with the lowest part of the gene pool that if and when the SHTF by the time things get back to civilized and there is a need for barter items hopefully enough people with skills are left alive to grow more food, make more bullets, and for GOD sake produce something I can wipe my ass with. If and when the SHTF it is going to be ugly and probably last for some time before coming to an end.  Learning primitive survival skills was considered a four letter word after the whole OK city thing but with out any goods and services left gold and silver is worthless.

    Good luck all may God be with us

  63. Tom says:

    Bret:  Why did Ag shoot up to 50/oz?  It was a take down of the Hunt brothers.  Yes, I remember when Au shot up to 850.  This is a world bubble.  I remember when the DOW went up to 14,164, 3 years ago!  The gov. never confiscated Au.  Key word is confiscate.  I remember when we sold our second condo at the top & paid off the one we live in now.  Hope your not saving in beanie baby’s.  Take a ride at Fl350 & see the big picture.  Most players here have a long memory.

  64. Tom says:

    Where do you shop at!!!!  I’ve got a $1,343 suit I’ll sell you but you’ll have to pay spot plus spread or bid.  I’ll throw in the tie/shoes.  I agree, Au hasn’t gone up (much) “until” paper pm folds.

  65. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    All right kidz…let’s try this again, and pay close attention.

    Go to
    http://www.minneapolisfed.org/ and check out the inflation calculator on the right side of the page. By the Federal Reserve Bank’s own calculator, if you bought (you’ll have to actually key in the numbers for yourself to verify…it’s not hard — try it for yourself) goods/services for $1.00 in 1913 the same goods/services today – 2010 – would cost you $22.19! Simple math here kids…$1/$22.19 = a whopping .04 cents – yep that’s what your FRN is worth today…4 worthless copper (really zinc with copper coating) pennies. The value of gold/silver ISN’T rising, the value of the paper dollar is simply depreciating…in fact its darn near worthless.

    As a kid, I had a paper route. Along my route, I used to pick up pop bottles along one of the roads…they were were a nickel a piece return. At the end of my route I could afford a 16 ounce of pop (real sugar not aspartame) and a Hershey bar with almonds. Cost me 4 pop bottles. I challenge you to buy that for less than $2.00.

    Go check out at http://www.coinflation.com/ what the melt value of a real dime is worth. Yep, a 1964 or previously minted dime is worth $1.5285…OR your FRN today is worth (.10/1.5285) a whopping 0.065445026. Send all of your pre-1965 coins to me, I’ll give you 0.065445026 on the dollar for them!

    Worth just about the same at the mortgage tax deduction the IRS is willing to give you!

    Wait until January 2011…at the rate the dollar is dropping, it will pure luck if it is worth .01 by then.

    In the mean time, I’ll continue to buy those things that are worth trading for…beans, bullets (.22LR is going to be dandy for barter) and band aids. If you don’t want to, I sure hope you have a good plan B.

  66. Bill says:

    Some gold, some silver, some FRN’s, some beans, some bullets, some bandaids, some toilet paper and no debt.  Prepared for whatever happens.  You don’t have to have one or the other.  No one knows for sure what will happen and to be too heavy in any of the above is silly in my mind.  I trust what I have and I trust my abilities to survive.  It’s stupid not to have any of these items and it’s just as stupid to have 5 years worth of toilet paper just in case…….  We can only be so prepared and so paranoid about any of this.  I try and live my life with a positive attitude and look at each day as it happens.  I enjoy the time spent reading all of your comments both positive and negative but personally, I have to take everything with a grain of salt.  This is a great site with a lot of different personalities which makes it so fun to read.  Nothing is 100% except death and the fact that obama is an asshole and our government is corrupt.  Things are messed up right now that’s for sure.  I’m sure  we’re all doing what we can afford and what we each feel is correct for ourselves and our families.   Hang in there and take some time each day to feel some peace.

    By the way, it is sorta fun to hold a bunch of gold in your hands.  Not sure about the sex thing though. 

  67. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    @Bill…I hope you’re my neighbor!

  68. Durango Kidd says:

    Mushroom; How many of those things did you eat this morning and where did you get them? lol

    “When central banks and banksters are buying gold in massive amounts, you know they intend to leave the masses with massive amounts of worthless paper.” – SHTF America, Econ Page.

    Tina: You may not have a choice in the type of world you have to live in. We are clearly in the “Last Days” for however long those days are. The bible says that unless those days are shortened, no flesh shall be saved. That sounds like a Mad Max world to me.

    Wooba; I understand your correction hypothesis. I think that occurs when Israel hits Iran (inevitable) and gold skyrockets. Sell half and buy twice as much after every thing settles down and the price collapses as “peace and safety” breakout. That will be the calm before the storm.

    eugend66: Could you repeat that in English, please so I could follow along?

  69. Hammerun says:

    I have bought a pile of 7.62×39 and I don’t even own an AK. My wife looked at me like WTF? I told her, Honey it will either feed us or defend us.
     We can barter it off to those that have AKs and we will have something to put in Aks after all of the ammo is shot out. What is it; in Kandahar you can buy an AK for $20? But the cartridges are outrageous?     
     

  70. Tom says:

    China exports=increased production=dollars=coal/oil=increased quantity of yuan=treasury bills=commodities futures=hard assets=inflation=promoting pm to china public=super power.

  71. oneshotkill says:

    @ Bill

    Well said

  72. Tom says:

    AR vice AK.  Pb is good!!!!!

  73. Scar says:

    Who is going to accept gold as currency locally?

    If there is a Government of any kind left after a SHTF situation why would they base their currency on PM’s? Because they are “one of us”? Because they are “the good guys”? All of our international trading partners (who just got screwed out of all their investments in the USA) are going to follow the same route? What are you smoking? So you believe that the Arabs and the Chinese are going to patiently wait for us to get it all sorted out?………….. C’mon. lol

    Do you think that “The New American Government” people are going to be so “Ron Paul Constitutional and Libertarian” that they are going to conduct international and domestic finance with gold? What gold?

    Where is that massive amount of gold going to come from?

    Oh! But-but-but you may say that after the collapse and a period of “adjustment” (read: misery and destruction) gold will be the only natural coin of the realm. The only “real money”.

    If that is what you think or believe, then go read some history. If anybody thinks that a few pieces of gold and silver are going to save them in the SHORT, MIDDLE or LONG term then they are dreaming. If you are not one of the Elite today, then you are a peasant and will remain a peasant after TSHTF.

    But what  are we talking about here? Wiemar Germany? Argentina? Zimbabwe?

    So maybe some chaos at first and then order after? Is that what you think? Order consolidated by whom? In chaos who would accept gold, other than the readers of survival fantasy literature, which I grant you, is action packed and make perfect sense until one adds the quotient of reality. I wouldn’t touch PM’s with a ten foot pole because I would have no way of knowing if it’s counterfeit. I am not a PM assayer. Most folks aren’t.

    So if it isn’t a Mad Max scenario then there will be order of some sort, either locally or regionally or nationally. That “order” is going to allow peasants (like us) to own PM’s and set up our very own economy, right? What? Are you people really that dumb?

    That. is. not. going. to happen.

    Okay let’s consider a Mad Max deal, what difference would bits of metal make unless you can fire them out a gun? Seriously. You will in all likelihood be dead after a few firefights anyway.

    So all you gold bugs believe that you will secure in your wealth by holding gold and silver and that, in the long run, you will be okay because this will save you from starving or going homeless.

    That’s great. Only one little teensy-weensy problem. Who do you think you will be dealing with in this unusual situation? What type of authority? What type of ruler? What kind of man?

    George Bailey and friends from the movie “It’s a Wonderful Life”? Doubt it.

    Try George Soros, or some other such moral vampire from “This Amerikwan Life Sucks”. That is the reality, folks.

    But, by all means, please keep buying PM’s. That is one of natures way of culling the herd, I guess.

  74. Tom says:

    I’ll bet you would run across a 6 lane interstate during rush hour chasing a 100 dollar Amero attached to a fishing line.

  75. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. About 2 years ago when the real estate market was humming right along and people were using their homes as ATM machines.  I recall a few real estate experts saying that “this is a real estate bubble, it can’t continue on like this.”  No one really listened except maybe a few who sold and got out with a pocket full of money.  I do know people who did just that.  Now I’m hearing the same thing that gold and silver is a bubble.  I know of one guy who just sold his gold (3 figures), and people were lined up at the coin dealer to sell theirs as well.  More sellers than buyers.  Don’t forget that FDR confiscated gold, and what’s to say Obumma wouldn’t do the same?  If people want to own gold and silver who am I to say they are headed down the road of a loss?  I own some silver, but not for investment reasons, I don’t know what else to do with it.  It’s just sitting in a box doing nothing except go up in value, and it could go down in value.  However, hard core assets like food, and the stuff you use everyday, is worth its weight in gold when you don’t have access to it like you do now.  I’m thinking more along the lines of bartering – like small bottles of alcohol, cigarettes, aspirin, things that will be hard to come by.  Google Argentina and see the troubles the people went through.  Banks closed, and food was rationed.  Prople were fighting in the streets for food and the basics.  I do believe it can and will happen here.  Anyone who says “no way” is a fool.

  76. **GiveMeAForkingBreak** says:

    I surrender…

  77. TnAndy says:

    75 frigging posts, and I don’t think ANYONE has said ( seriously…Mushroom is pulling your leg )…. “forget preps, buy gold only”…..but some of ya’ll keep carrying on as if that were the case.

    Some of ya are more hard headed than my little brother…..the Damn Democrat.

    Google Argentina and see how handy gold was WHEN THE FREAKING BANKS CLOSED and then re-opened to let you have a tiny amount of YOUR paper currency out each day.

    That’s it…..I’m done……ya’ll do whatever you want, I sure can’t see it from my farm.

  78. Tom says:

    Real estate was not humming along 2 years ago.  3 years ago in some states, but the bubble had already burst and most didn’t know it.  Gold was never, never confiscated from the public.  Show me…..  Why did you buy silver if you “don’t know what to do with it because it’s sitting right there in the box going up in value”?  You sound like Pepsi comparing up to Coke, Kia comparing up to Mercedes.  You must not have enough stored food and basics.  How many here are saying “no way”?  Sell your Ag and get off the band wagon & step stool.  What was the spot plus bid price that you purchased Ag?
    Fork:  What math class did you attend?  I remember 5 cent candy bars but sodas were not 10 cents with a 5 cents return during the same time.  Are you saying a silver quarter won’t buy a gallon of diesel after stopping at the coin shop?  Better yet a gallon of gas.  A silver dime won’t buy you a Hersey candy bar?  Were about to hit 16 times face value for melt!!!!  Did you save that silver dime or did you buy it?  Will that silver/gold pay your debts with inflated dollars.  Do you understand the difference between paper pm & physical?  One you pay taxes on when you exchange, the other one is in your hand.  When this ponzi game ends on paper pm, physical will explode in value.  Keep asking questions & you will understand.

  79. wooba says:

    @Goldenfoxx Two years ago the RE market was humming along? 2 years ago it had collapsed 30% remember.

  80. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..

    wooba
    September 22nd, 2010 at 8:10 pm
    @Goldenfoxx Two years ago the RE market was humming along? 2 years ago it had collapsed 30% remember.

    I may be off 6 months..time is slipping away.  But remember it happened very quickly. Like 1 month and poof people were left holding the bag.  People down the road sold their house for $495,000 and now it’s worth $250,000.  Commodities can become bubbles..not can they do.

  81. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. I searched on the county records, and specifically it was 9/2007 WTSHF in this county.  The perps purchased the house 7/2007, 2 months later TSHTF.  I stand corrected, but the outcome is the same.

  82. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. “Why did you buy silver if you “don’t know what to do with it because it’s sitting right there in the box going up in value”?”

    You ASS-U-ME I bought it?  How do you know where it came from?  You ASS-U-ME too much.

  83. wooba says:

    Hey Goldenfoxx, for everyone selling there is someone buying, mostly the herd is buying ETF product, paper gold, because they don’t trust themselves to hold real gold. They will no doubt be repaid in full paper value for their efforts.

    And don’t worry about confiscation either, that affected dopes who trusted banks to hold their gold. There was plenty of gold still in private hands and a ready market to buy it too.

    Here are few loopholes in the 1933 gold confiscation order.

    “Gold will be confiscated”… on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

    (a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

    (b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

    (c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

    (d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
    -www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

    See, plenty of loopholes, so relax. We horders have our gold well spread, buried deep and out of harms way.

  84. Tom says:

      
    “I own some silver, but not for investment reasons, I don’t know what else to do with it.  It’s just sitting in a box doing nothing except go up in value, and it could go down in value.  However, hard core assets like food, and the stuff you use everyday, is worth its weight in gold.”

    So you saying you have never purchased any gold or silver and don’t know what to do with it?  Many people don’t understand the science of bubbles but will chase the price when greed is realized.  Why are you telling people that what you “have purchased” such as food is more important but worth it’s weight in gold.  Purchase enough food then, which many have been saying here previously.  Have you read Maslow’s Pyramid theory?  Many people here would help.  Or, I’ll sell you some food & you can pay it’s weight in gold, but you don’t have any………….  So what are you saying?

  85. John says:

    Another indication is when US treasuries are increasingly purchased by the FED to make up for the shortfalls by foreign creditors and to finance the ballooning US deficits.

  86. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. Actually Tom, I inherited the silver and one gold piece. I’ll probably pass it on to my kids when I leave this world.  I can eat the food whereas gold I cannot eat.  If my neighbor came to me with a piece of gold or silver and wanted to buy my food which I have squirreled away, I wouldn’t trade for the gold or silver.  But I would trade for something that would help me survive.  Those buying gold right now I believe like people buying houses, will eventually see their investment go down in value.  That’s how it works.  We’ve had gold and silver bubbles in the past–no?  What good is my gold and silver doing for me right now when I have no intention of cashing it in?  Do you really think in a SHTF scenario that you will be running to the nearest coin dealer (if they are still in business), trying to unload your gold?  Do you really think the stock market will be open to trade your paper gold?  JMHO FWIW.

  87. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. S0mething to ponder:

    When ATM’s Won’t Work

    “For as long as I’ve been studying and writing about the economy, I am surprised that more people don’t consider what a world where the global economy has failed would be like. That’s what’s at stake. In case you haven’t penciled it out, let me give you some concepts to really snuggle up to to see how they feel:

    *The ATM doesn’t work. That’s because in a global economic meltdown, our trading partners would not accept US Dollars for anything – which BTW includes oil. That means no energy to run coal mining and that in turn shuts off a huge portion of electric power generation. Banks go bust, the markets collapse – there’s no clearing and commerce seizes up within a week or two.

    *There’s nothing in stores within a week or two. The overseas vendors who provide a good bit of the legendary 6,000-mile long Cesar Salad would stop selling us goods. We are a net food importer, or hadn’t you noticed? Can you survive off your garden?

    *Electronics are gone (since the power’s been off).

    *Since paychecks in such a world would no longer buy anything meaningful, how long before government services fell apart? I mean, think about no more prison guards going to work, no more police and fire responding to 9/11 calls, no more welfare – and that includes no Social Security – and no more maintenance of any kind. The military just sort of ‘walks away’ in Anasazi fashion (The Anasazi being an example of how a rapid change caused a whole high culture to jujst poof! – disappear…) wherever they happen to be when the collapse happens.

    *Farmers no longer put crops into the ground, and with no diesel or petroleum to make food goods, no diesel to run trucks, etc. within a year we’re out of food and on starvation’s doorstep. Want to be a fine young cannibal?

    *Absent cops, fire departments, and paramedics, there’s no one to defend you from killer gangs. But I suppose that’s OK since without a functioning economic system there’s no water to drink and no medical care available. We quickly go back to a world where people with asthma and diabetes die within days or weeks, and where a serious injury (think gang-administered gunshot wound?) last only long enough for super-bugs to kill since the pharmaceuticals are all made overseas and those folks no longer take US dollars…

    *The good news? There won’t be a lot of traffic. That’s because as the dollar fails there’d be no reason/incentive to go to work, especially because you’d need to be watching your family every second and they’d need to watch your back in return.
    …..

    More recently, I’ve added Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update to my reading list because the original report was more of a foundational piece which outlined the post population reduction (PPR) levels which some place at 500-million humans. Scary number, that: It means about13 out of 14 people have to be somehow removed (e.g. made dead) and the load on the planet reduced. Growing the third Worlders only ramps up the birth rate, so they have a kind of built-in ‘use by” date.

    I’ve also got Herman Daly’s Beyond Growth: The Economics of Sustainable Development on my list since there’s a critical thing to notice here: As long as there remains a viable path into our shared future which incorporates a sustainable business model and doesn’t get past the carry-limits of the planet, then there’s hope that a PTB-planned die-off can be avoided.”
    …..
    http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

  88. Mariposa de Oro says:

    For those who think gold is a stupid possession for the proles…..

    I think what you are over looking is that many of stupid gold bugs see our PMs as a form of insurance against a variety of scenarios. 

    I don’t have a crystal ball, thus I don’t know for sure what is coming.  If the PTB really have our best interest in mind, and save us, then good times are just around the corner and I’ll be able to affrod to waste ‘good’ money on PMs and not have a care in the world.  If on the other hand any scenario between the Hope-N-Change we are now enjoying and Mad Max can be dealt with by having a stash of PMs.  Mad Max world is pretty unlikely, at least on a global scale.   The US may descend into something close, or a police state in which case, having a fist full of gold coins might come in very handy if you’re smart enough to escape.  Many people will gladly look the other way in exhange for a nice gold coin.  In some cases, a few seconds can make all the difference .   How many stories throughout history are there of individuals putting a couple of gold coins in their pocket and escaping with their lives?  Try that with a hundred can of beans and spam.  Speaking of Spam, can anyone tell my why so many governments/central banks are hoarding tons of gold in their vaults?  I mean, you can’t eat the stuff, so why don’t they have mountains of Spam and beans in there?

  89. Tom says:

    I surrender also TnAndy….

  90. Anonymous says:

    I always wanted to be #90!  To the people that don’t understand gold, why are you here posting?

  91. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. Anonymous
    September 23rd, 2010 at 2:58 pm I always wanted to be #90!  To the people that don’t understand gold, why are you here posting
    —————————-

    I didn’t realize that this was a gold only posting site.  I understand gold completely, I wasn’t born yesterday.  Why are those that want to hold gold against those of us who don’t see the value in it.  Not everyone drives the same kind of car or eats the same kind of food.  I don’t give s $hit what anyone owns. JMHO.

  92. wooba says:

    @Goldenfoxx “If my neighbor came to me with a piece of gold or silver and wanted to buy my food which I have squirreled away, I wouldn’t’t trade for the gold or silver.

    Then bring you box of silver here mate, I’ll exchange it for food I have squirreled away right now.

    You lot out there, don’t expect a Mad Max world as a given in your lifetimes. It was just a movie ok. A fictional MOVIE! The collapses in Argentina, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Russia, these are more likely outcomes.

    Those blokes, Jim Rawles and his clones, which includes that fat pig over on the SurvivalPodcast, are preaching about Mad Max because if they didn’t no one would buy their books and go buy mountain-house food and all the other expensive gear they derive their advertising money from. Sure they mean well, except that tubby pig on the survivalPodcast (who is a pure marketing guy and cares only about retiring early and comfortably on his subscribers hard earned money) But the rest mean well, they are just all “ALL” too one sided, too narrow viewed.

    If we get a collapse anything less than what they suggest we prepare for, half the survivalists in America will be shooting the gas station attendants because they refuse to exchange beans and 22 bullets for a tank of gas.

    So keep 5 or 10 grand handy, and a bunch of gold and silver OK’

  93. Chris C. says:

    Question – if gold is the ultimate bubble, where does the money go after gold?

  94. Tom says:

    Production land with water/green energy?

  95. wooba says:

    As an interesting aside, not really, but gold was actually the first bubble, back in the seventies. The first bubble since the 1930’s reset of the global economic system that is. Gold bubbled out in the early eighties, along with silver. Then came housing and the stock markets, with some minor corrections.

    My definition of a bubble (for what it’s worth) is when “Anything” grows in nominal price well beyond the inflation rate. A bubble could also be as easily defined as “Anything” the moronic public is flooding over itself to purchase. Gold of course has gone well above the inflation rate over the past 10 years, but gold was also depressed for prior 20 years. Held artificially below the rate.

    I would guess, by looking at gold’s historical purchasing record, that it is around it’s fair value. Perhaps now over it by a couple of hundred dollars. So by that, and definition #1 it’s not in a bubble. The public? Well they can’t even spell gold. If the public had been buying into it big it would be cocktail party, coffee shop, and water-cooler talk by now and it isn’t. So by definition #2 we are not in a bubble either.

  96. Tom says:

    Which Au thread do you go?  K?

  97. Anonymous says:

    Any feelings on:  Will or when we go for a “31 year” high on Ag with this political helo drop of FRN’s that are floating all commodities today?

  98. wooba says:

    Is that Q to me Tom? Cause if it is, I don’t under stand it. Gold thread? K?

  99. wooba says:

    The biggest single facter for gold going forward I believe is it’s non-monitary nature nowdays. In all past cycles gold was money for the general public across the entire earth. In any era, any prior age, the public held the view gold was money. The only ones now are us, a small minority.

    How this will effect the value in 5 or 10 years time is impossible to say but gold will mone likely than not buble off again like in the seventies and then correct to the natural price determined by how costly it is to extract and refine.

  100. Tom says:

    U said you were going to your Au thread over on emp post.  Which one? Kitco.  Which direction on the BIG island r u?

  101. DurangoKidd says:

    Wooba: I think the biggest single factor for gold going forward is the Chinese. No, not the Chinese government that buys all of its own production now, but the Chinese people as individual investors. The Chinese government has publicly encouraged the Chinese people to buy gold as part of their personal investment holdings.

    If every individual in China bought one GRAM of gold, China would consume one-half of the annual production of gold in the world. Imagine if “gold” became a trend or status item in China for 600 million consumers with disposable and descretionary income.

    Going forward, I think the global demand for gold will continue to push the price up, with dips and profit taking along the way, fear of economic collapse in the US or Europe not withstanding.

  102. wooba says:

    Arrr’ That gold thread. It’s this gold thread here lol. There is nowhere else to bother with now, we have been reading and posting on Gold is Money [Don’t go there now] for 5 odd years and it always boils down to the following.

    Buy as much physical gold and silver as you can and sit on it until you see the 10 year chart go parabolic, then sell as much as you dare.

    I only buy silver now though

  103. wooba says:

    I’m in Australia Tom.

    :DurangoKidd

    The People’s Republic of China was established 1949, only 60 years ago! In the subsequent land reform process 2~5 million people were murdered, mostly middle class. There was a policy to select at least one landlord and usually several from every village for public execution. Another 4~6 million were sent to labor camps for reform and many of these died too. All that happened in the past 60 years.

    The same politial structure exists in china today, and while they may be telling their citizens to buy gold (illegal to own in china only a few years ago) who knows what will happen to those people and that gold in the decades to come.

    Truth is the chinese as a culture are murderous 6-faced bastards who keep their real heart’s intentions very close to their chests and display to the world something entirely different.

    I haven’t a clue what’s “really” going on in china but they are probably like the Indians in some respect when it comes to gold and silver. If the current trend continues though, and they can access the world gold supply on a large scale, then yes, they could become the largest factor.

    I doubt they could access the supply though, where is it? I have trouble getting coins some days! There is not a lot of PMs left for sale. lol

  104. Anonymous says:

    A kilo bar is coming up on $42K of fiat digits & a bag of junk 1K 90%face is under $16K.  I couldn’t eat it & I wouldn’t know what to do with it……  I tell the postman that it’s the head to my robot that I’m building.

  105. eagleclaw says:

    http://amaresource.com/wsi/index-i1.html

    What  does everyone think of this guy’s articles about GOLD IS GOING TO CRASH ?? 

  106. Tom says:

    Hypothetical situation,
    huh?
    I’m standing on a corner and Mrs. Grey propositions me…                  
    …saying for $ . 
    she’ll put on a show…                 
    …with a Shetland pony.
    lf this is your idea of humor…
    All right, what are you doing here?
    Seeing if you know what law’s being broken…
    ……besides cruelty to animals.

    Quantitative Easing II (QEII) has started (purchase own T-Bills/causing inflation).  U.S. dollar index falling.  Many countries racing to devalue their money there by having to print more for productive exports.  It’s a race to the bottom!  Dow going up for political reasons to make #1 look good to contest possible lame duck win this election.  Gold/silver going nuts.  More consolidation.  Ag @ $23 spot soon.  After $1350 Au CLEAR BLUE SKY with unlimited volatility. This has been your economic weekly outlook.  What else can you invest in & hold right now?  This time it just may be different!

  107. Mariposa de Oro says:

    eagleclaw,
    Will gold crash?  Who knows?  What time frame are we talking about?  Six months?  A year?  5 years?  10?  What is your purpose for holding gold?  Investment? Insurance against dollar collapse?  Fondle Factor?  I can’t tell you what’s going to happen with gold, or anything else.  My plan is to have some physical as insurance.  I’m also paying ahead on my mortgage.  I hope to get one year ahead, and then begin paying extra on the principle again.  My situation is very unique and can change at a moment’s notice rendering me unemployed AND homeless.  Stocking up on TP and canned food is not practical for me.  I’ve had to come up with something that offers me the most flexiblity and coverage for a variety of situations.  I recommend you spend some time at ZeroHedge.com to follow what’s going on with gold and the economy overall.  Be sure to read the comments posted.  The discussions there are very informative for the most part.  Hope this helps.

  108. wooba says:

    Eagleclaw, that guy is an idiot, just look at his picture. I’ve seen better informed poodles.

    But all you need to know about that idiot is on the last line of that overly windy web page, just scroll straight to the bottom and read the big words “ORDER NOW”

    He’s just another tool trying to get into your back pocket is all, I never saw him 5 years ago like I saw Jim Rodgers and Eric Sprott, and all the rest, saying buy gold at $300 $400 $500…

  109. Tom says:

    You need to ask yourself “why” would gold crash?  Then you would know when…….

  110. Jane says:

    Eagleclaw,

    It’s a Toxic derivatives scam.  They want to find someone to dump their toxic waste on; and to legitimize the banks’ phony ledgers to cover illegal transactions as much as they can. They never will, because it’s a gigantic black hole. 

    Who knows how many trillions of derivatives they have on the Federal Reserve’s books (which began in 1913).

    The Federal Reserve is a Private central bank with a monopoly on currency and credit – Karl Marx’s ideology. 

    Federal Reserve never pays taxes,  but you do.  It also collects interest from Sheep including politicians.

  111. wooba says:

    For those with the stomach for a very long, somewhat abstract (to me at least) analysis of gold, bubble gold and paper gold, head over to zero Hedge for this one.
    -www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-shoeshine-boy

  112. Tom says:

    Wooba:  enjoyed the abstract but missed the condom/condo/stock example.  Check out yesterday’s jsmineset. 

  113. overtheedge says:

    Comments…..Gold and silver are not in a bubble. Look at the technicals. The FRN is what’s in the bubble.

    Would I recommend PM’s. Not until the more pressing issue of stocking up on your more immediate supplies, ie. food, water source, handtools and seeds. If you lack the skills to do this effectively, better add some good how-to books. Then practice, practice, practice.

    Please make sure your tray tables and seat are in the upright and locked position. This is gonna be a bumpy ride.

    No seriously, PM’s will only be of real value once things settle down. All forms of currency, be them FRNs or PMs, will have little value when the nation is faced with shortages of food and pure water. Of course I’ll trade you a pack of Lucky’s and a can of pork n beans for a double eagle.

    If I was ever able to buy some PMs, I sure wouldn’t store them somewhere other than in a carefully selected hidey-hole. I can buy a few extra cans of food and spend a few bucks at yard sales on tools.

  114. wooba says:

    @Tom
    The piece on the bond fiasco?
    I admit I don’t know much about paper investments but the Aussie dollar is 96 cents to the $US.  Considering our higher incomes here and the cheapness still of international shipping, many here are going on a buying spree with your suppliers.

    Soon you will have to default on all that paper, either that or the world will go on a buying spree in America.  I can’t see the latter happening.  The only things people with big bucks want, like strategic oil and mineral assets, your government wont allow sales on. 

    The English defaulted on the debt they owed in their day of reckoning, the Spanish empire as well I believe.   It’s standard operating procedure.

    This business of inflation/deflation has many points on both sides but the smart analysts debating it never bring up the obvious.  “Who controls the FED”  and all the other CB’s.   The world’s large money center banks, the Rothchilds etc.  “What do they stand to gain  in inflation/deflation?”  They are in undisputed control, all we see is the puppet show but behind the scenes the strings are pulled.

    In inflation?  I don’t know what they gain.  Not much I could imagine because there is no more appetite for debt, they will not see the big inflows of capital they received over the last half century as nations and people repayed all the interest and principals on their invented money.

    Deflation?  Well here they get to foreclose on all the factories, all the “cities” all the mines and all the oil.  They will be the only ones left with capital and the prices of assets will plummet as  money dries up.  That is what happened in the thirties, their big corporation fronts bought up half the world and if it wasn’t for abundant cheap oil, and the wealth it has brought, the world’s peoples would be living in abject poverty already.

  115. Tom says:

    Wooba:  This same article is now on kitco.com.  Check out Don Stott’s column on coloradogold.com Tue/Thur also.  Good man w common sense.

  116. Anonymous says:

    Gold spot $1315 & 22.08 for silver this morning.  Have many friends that will start asking questions soon.  Have had only one friend that admitted that he “should have listened” and started late by getting in 3 yrs. ago.