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The Detainee: A Tale Of Collapse

Brandon Smith
December 9th, 2011
Alt-Market
Comments (63)

This short story  has been contributed by Brandon Smith of Alt Market, an organization that facilitates networking, local community action, and the exchange of knowledge and ideas and promotes decentralization, localism, and the de-globalization of human economic systems. To contribute to the growth of the Safe Haven Project, and to help us help others in relocating, visit Alt Market’s donate page here: http://www.alt-market.com/donate.

In a new experiment that began with “The Redline:  A Tale Of Collapse” , Alt-Market is trying something a little different; a short fiction series based on fact. Make no mistake; while the characters and events in this story are products of imagination, the issues presented and their probable consequences are anything but fantasy.

It was almost overwhelming.  Richard Evans had retired from Military Intelligence nearly five years ago, but the need and the desire to serve was so ingrained within his psyche that he now felt in his newfound leisure the days grinding away; wasted, meaningless.  He was gray, and unenthusiastic, and beginning to feel like a walking corpse.  He never said it out loud, especially around his wife, but when the financial collapse took hold of the U.S. and the insurgency exploded, he was excited.  He knew it was only a matter of time before he would be reactivated, and his unique skill set would be required.

The call came Friday morning, and a car picked him up that afternoon at the airfield driven by a man wearing the familiar sword and blue flower insignia of Military Intelligence.  He was in his late 50’s now, and the Department of Defense had changed protocols on MI so many times since he joined it was hard to keep track of who was in charge of what anymore.  Lately, however, it seemed that the crisis had given the military and the government quite a bit of room to maneuver legally and politically.  Under new provisions attached to the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011, the traditionally domestic jurisdictions within the borders of the U.S. could now be categorized as “combat zones” in accordance with the international laws of war.  This meant, essentially, that U.S. citizens who opposed government authority could no longer hide behind the Constitutional protections of Habeas Corpus and trial by jury.  The reign of military law was at hand.

Richard’s wife constantly complained that the policy was “too harsh” and that it weakened the moral high ground of the government.  She was a bleeding heart, of course.  Richard was a realist.  The greater good required that certain principles be set aside in order to combat men who played by no rules.  The extremists involved in the growing American insurgency had to be dealt with outside conventional methods.  They didn’t deserve the benefits of a Constitutional framework.  They were traitors who now attacked their own country from within.

The car arrived at the outer gate of the detainment facility nestled in an isolated corner of Eglin Airforce Base.  Florida was an unbearable hellhole this time of year.  The humidity in the late summer made it difficult to breath for those not acclimated.  Not to mention, the base could hardly be considered a NATO “Safe Zone” with the amount of terrorist activity all over the state.  The prisoner he had been sent to interview was found scouting within the perimeter, somehow evading multiple guard stations and the regular thermal surveys of predator drones.  The “revolutionaries”, as they called themselves, were finding extraordinary low tech methods for defeating extremely expensive military technology.  They were leveling the playing field, which was unacceptable.  If the fight came down to a numbers game, a war of attrition, the Federal Government and its coalition partners in Europe would undoubtedly lose.

The facility was plain looking, nondescript, like a small hospital.  This was done intentionally to provide cover for MI to work undisturbed.  Only a few of the thousands of soldiers stationed at Eglin had any idea that the area was actually a black-site housing masses of enemy belligerents.  Some of the prisoners would be found less valuable, and sent off to a FEMA secured work camp for processing.  Others would be shipped out of the country to more controlled locations.  It was Richard’s job to discern which was which.

Sergeant Major John Halstrom, commander of the operation, met him at the door and ushered him towards his office.  Richard had met Halstrom when he was young and barely noticeable, but even then, the upstart had obvious Machiavellian qualities.  He would literally stop at nothing to get what he wanted; the perfect character profile for a man in charge of an interrogation unit.

They both sat down and focused on the assignment at hand.  The creed of Military Intelligence was etched in a bronze plaque just above Halstrom’s desk:

I am a Soldier first, but an intelligence professional second to none.
With pride in my heritage, but focused on the future,
Performing the first task of an Army:
To find, know, and never lose the enemy.
With a sense of urgency and of tenacity, professional and physical fitness,
and above all, INTEGRITY, for in truth lies victory.
Always at silent war, while ready for a shooting war,
The silent warrior of the ARMY team.

“Richard, I’ll be honest, I’m not sure why they brought you down here.  I think this guy is a dead end.  We’ve already started prepping him and he doesn’t seem to know much of anything…”

Richard grimaced “You were supposed to wait for me, John.  You know you can’t just start in on a subject without gauging his psychological state.  This is not a game of force, after all, it’s a game of the mind…”

“I’m all for the mind reading and the parlor tricks, if you can bring me results.  We cannot win this war without getting some of these guys to turn.  Remember Afghanistan?”

“This is not going to be like Afghanistan.  These insurgents are misguided, John.  Ultimately, they want to return this country back to its former glory.  All we have to do is convince them that our way, the new way, is the right way.”

Halstrom was, of course, unconvinced.  He wanted to wrench the information out of the prisoners.  That’s not how it worked.  At most, he would get a false confession, some inaccurate information.  The subject would say anything to stop the torture, but rarely was that information useful.

“The higher-ups think this subject has the potential to be converted.  To go informant.  His background suggests a certain pliability.  See what you can do….”

Richard was led to the interrogation rooms at the end of a long hallway.  The walls were white, perfectly clean and sterile.  Each cell was small, with a thick metal door and a small plexiglass window for observation.  He had always heard of the “dungeons” the CIA used in Eastern Europe; dark places covered in the unwashed filth of multiple torture sessions.  That was unprofessional, as far as he was concerned, and a bit cartoonish.  He found the laboratory clean of these units to be much more unnerving to detainees than any dungeon anyway.

He glanced through the window of the third cell to find a half naked wiry man with a pale complexion and a look of exhaustion.  Bruising around his larynx indicated he had been struck in the throat.

“Stupid…”  Richard mumbled.  “Why not chop his head off.  That way we’ll be sure he never talks…”

He strolled into the room with a thin file and a chair.  He sat down calmly and confidently as he had been trained to do to assure the prisoner that he was in complete control of the environment.  The air in the room was freezing, just as he had requested.  The detainee shivered, wrapping his legs close to his chest to maintain body warmth, his arms tied securely behind his back.  Richard wore a suit rather than a uniform when conducting interrogations.  It was better to deny the subject ANY information about the interrogator, or the facility in which he was being held.  The less knowledge he had to hold onto, the more powerless he felt.

Richard opened the man’s file and began with a standard approach.

“Mr. Andrew Long, originally of Denver, Colorado.  A public school teacher.  Physics….interesting.  Husband to Janette Long, and father of two children, Robin and Jessop.  Arrested in 2011 during an anti-Federal Reserve protest march in Los Angeles.  Released 24 hours later.  Votes consistently Libertarian…”

He eyed the prisoner for a moment.  The man stared at the ground without response.

“I have to say that your biometric file is a bit incomplete.  I’m wondering what the hell happened between 2011 and now that caused a family man like yourself to become a terrorist?  …….Do you think your children miss you, Andrew?”

No response.  He moved forward…

“It’s rather cold in here, isn’t it?  Would you like a coat, Andrew?  Perhaps a nice blanket?”

If you can influence the subject to ask you for help, he begins to accept his dependence.  This relationship is more conducive to a sharing of information.

“No…”  The man uttered.  His voice was labored, probably from the sessions with Halstrom the day before.

“Hey, no problem, Andrew.  I like the cold myself.  Canada’s weather is fantastic during the summer…”

The detainee smirked slightly in disbelief.  Giving the subject a false sense of his surroundings was useful for later interrogation.  Subjects were often disoriented.  Even put on flights to nowhere to make them believe they were outside the U.S.

“I wish I could say I’m here to discuss the weather with you, Mr. Long, but my superiors out there in the hall need a few questions answered first.  Let’s start with an easy one; what were you doing inside the perimeter of the Eglin military base?”

Andrew spoke in a matter-of-fact manner that Richard had not seen before.

“I was scouting the area for a prison just like this, of course.”

“And, why were you doing that?  How did you know there was even a detention facility at Eglin?”

No response.

“Okay.  Let’s try a hard question; why fight us, Andrew?  Are you really that fond of this national crisis that you would prolong it by interfering with reconstruction?”

“You people…..” The detainee shook his head and chuckled.  “You pretend to believe in what you are doing, but deep down, you know it’s a crime…”

“A crime, Andrew?  A crime against who?”

“Against everyone.  Against yourselves.  Against history.  You hide behind laws you rewrite and twist to give the impression of moral superiority, but in the end, you are a bunch of psychopaths.  The things you do here now will never wash away…”

“That’s an interesting viewpoint, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’ve been caught.  Caught with your trousers down in a highly restricted area in preparation for an attack!”  Richard began to push harder.

“I never said I was scouting for an attack…”

“Oh come on, Andrew!  That’s what you terrorists do!  You blow things up!  You kill people!  And you want to talk to me about morality?!”

“I only kill people like you.  Like your friend out there with the water bucket and the taser.  I’ll come out of this war with a clear conscience.  Can you people say the same…?”

“I wouldn’t worry about the Sergeant Major.  He’ll have no regrets.  Will probably dance on your grave after he’s finished with you.  I, on the other hand, am not your enemy.  I’m here to get you out of this cell.  But, I can’t do that if you don’t give me anything in trade.  You understand ‘trade’, right Andrew?  You insurgents are always talking about barter and free markets.  Well, in this particular market, I have a supply of freedom, and I think you want some of that supply very much.  What can you exchange for that freedom, Andrew?  You have to tempt me with a bargain, otherwise, our little economy won’t work…”

“I have nothing that can help you…”  Andrew sunk back into the corner of the room.  Richard saw this as a clear sign that the session was over for the day.

“I wish I didn’t have to leave this room under these conditions, Mr. Long.  I wish I could walk out there and tell the Sergeant that we can start filling out the release papers.  I guess that’s not going to happen today, is it?”

No response.

“I’ll be back tomorrow.  But think about this; the longer I’m in here talking to you, the less time they have to do what they do when I’m gone.”  He closed the door and walked away.

The next day Richard returned to find the detainee worse for wear.  The left side of his face was cut open with a razor.  The blood had been mopped up haphazardly and the floor still held a pinkish hue.  Two small toes had been removed, from the looks of it probably with a pair of needle nose pliers.  The air was still chilled, and Andrew lay in a ball on the floor twitching.  Richard walked in with the same chair and calmly sat down.

“Hello, Andrew.  It’s rather dry and hot out there today.  Saudi Arabia is so uncomfortable this time of year.  I’m glad to be inside where it’s nice and cool.”

Andrew pulled himself up from his heap and smiled.  The gashes in his face glistening in the fluorescent lights.

“I thought you said we were in Canada?”

“Oh no, I never said that.  I said the weather in Canada is nice this time of year, that’s all.”  The detainee didn’t seem to flinch at the smug comment.

“You look hungry, Andrew.  I hear you haven’t eaten for three days.  Would you like a sandwich, or some soup maybe?”

“No…”

“Let me ask you something, Mr. Long, why go through all of this?  I mean, what is it you think you are accomplishing?”

“Don’t you know?  You interrogators all seem to think you can read people like tea leaves.  You think this is a game of the mind, right?  If my eyes shift right, I’m pulling from memory.  If my eyes shift left I am constructing a lie.  If I fidget with my hands it means I’m nervous about your line of questioning.  Right?”

Richard was impressed a little by the man’s knowledge of interrogation but didn’t show it.

“You still didn’t answer my question, Andrew…”

“I’ve come here to waste your time.  To make you bastards think I have something valuable.  I can keep this up forever…”

Richard breathed a sigh of disappointment.  Then stood up and grabbed his chair.

“I’ll see you later, Andrew.”  He left, closing the door firmly behind him.

The door swung open to a folding cot.  The detainee was on a vitamin drip, his arms strapped to the frame.  Richard had seen this before.  The man was dying.  Halstrom wouldn’t be able to see it, but the end result of this strategy was already painted clearly in the sunken hollow eyes of Andrew Long.

He had only been gone for two days, but the amount of violence that had been visited on this prisoner in that time was simply unnatural.  His body was barely recognizable.  Intense bruising and swelling, collapsing veins in his arms from continuous chemical injections, a long suture across his mid section where a rib had obviously broken and ripped through the skin, and his head had now been shaved, apparently to allow for easy taser work to the cranium.  He grew angry.  Angry at the detainee.

“Andrew, I told you what would happen.  All you had to do was cooperate.  The easiest thing in the world for you to do is to cooperate.  You have brought this on yourself and you have interfered with my job.  It’s a lose-lose!”

Andrew’s voice was but a wisp, a ghost straining through his teeth to carry a barely audible message.

“You brought this.  You bring this every time you look the other way.  You could stop it at any time if you wanted…”

“I’m not here to rewrite military interrogation policy.  I’m here to get one thing; information.  Tell me where the local insurgents are organizing, and this all disappears.”

Andrew shook his head, “You and I both know that once this begins, there is only one place it can go…”

“I can’t be concerned with that.  I can’t be concerned with you.  Thousands of people are dying out there because of this conflict and it needs to end.  We are going to end it!  You and your kind are living a fantasy.  You think your vision of Constitutionalism and a “free republic” isn’t expendable?  Of course it is!  It’s just another idea whose time has passed.  The outcome of this crisis was decided before it began.  Governments survive.  People fade away.  We can nurture the system and thrive with it, or tear each other apart and perish together.  The greater good demands a sacrifice of ideals to ensure progress…”

Andrew shook with fury, subdued by the intense physical agony weighing upon him.

“That’s a nice speech, but you’re only trying to reassure yourself.  You have no ideals, you have no principles, and that is why you will lose.  I am making my sacrifice for what you call the “greater good” right here and now.  I’m leaving behind a wife and two children!  They will never know what happened to me.  My body will be incinerated and my ashes left in a drainage ditch outside this prison that isn’t even supposed to exist.  One day soon, you will understand why your side is destined to fail.  Very soon…”

Richard’s attempts to reign in this subject were become even more fruitless.  He had come in thinking the school teacher and family man was an easy target to turn informant, and now, he was fighting just to convince the prisoner that he could live through the day.  This was a disaster.  He rushed to talk with Halstrom.  He needed more time.  Halstrom was not sympathetic…

“I have my schedule, Richard, just like you have yours.  I can’t hold back on any of these prisoners while this base is at risk!  If we lose Florida, the entire gulf opens up to the insurgency.  Free movement up to Atlanta!  Can you live with that?  No, because if you could, you’d be a damned traitor.”

Halstrom had a knack for rationalizing his methods that bordered on political genius.

“I’m talking about one prisoner, John.  I need some breathing room!”

“Richard, do you or do you not believe this detainee has valuable information on the insurgency?”

Richard’s intuition was never wrong when it came to reading a detainee.  He gave his answer with a depressed confidence, knowing the cost.

“……yes, I do.”

“The terrorists are using decentralized combat methods.  Do you know what that means?  It means they have no top down leadership.  They devise strategies at random.  Infiltration is useless because each group is acting independently of the others and trading members for multiple actions.  Our informants never know what is going to happen until it is happening right in front of them.  It means each individual insurgent must be treated like a member of leadership and squeezed for as much information as possible as quickly as possible or we lose our edge.  The school teacher gets squeezed tomorrow.  He talks or we move on.  Period!”

Richard Evans had one chance to salvage this interview, maintain his success rate, and keep Andrew alive long enough to become a valuable asset.  The attempt to convince him of the futility of his cause had floundered.  He now had to appeal to the man’s honor.

“Andrew, I want you to consider something before you foolishly martyr yourself for information that may or may not be worth a damn.  There are some in your movement that operate outside the principles you cling to.  The refugee hospital in Miami, for instance…”

Andrew coughed with disgust.

“The one that your people leveled and then blamed on us so that you had clear precedence to move troops into the state?”

“So then give me a false flag group if you are so certain they exist!  Give me anything!”

Andrew leaned up and spoke with a softness that one would normally reserve for a dear friend.  The tone startled Evans, who had never before allowed himself any connection with the people he analyzed and categorized for the military.

“I want to help you…..and I’ll do it, on one condition…”

The suited man leaned in closely.

“I will tell you what I know, if you stay this time, and watch them work…”

Richard had executed hundreds of interrogations in his career.  But not once had he ever been present for the torture.  It was always deemed more effective for him to conduct interviews afterwards, while the subject felt vulnerable.  His disconnection from the more gruesome aspects of the process allowed prisoners to see him as a welcome safety net, a vacation from the fear and anguish, if only for an hour.  This request was not something he was used to.

“If that’s how you want to do this, then I will be here.  God help you, Andrew, this information you have had better be golden…”

Evans sat at the far corner as Halstrom and another guard walked in with a duffel bag.  Halstrom protested Richard’s presence fervently until Richard appealed to his ego, relating his “admiration” for the direct method.  Halstrom was willing to make an exception for such a distinguished veteran of MI, especially if it meant showing off.

The session began with a typical revealing of tools and devices, some strutting around and some overt threats.  Andrew was propped up against the wall, still strapped to his medical cot.  The questioning was rudimentary, and disturbingly juvenile in manner.  Halstrom’s expletives were drowning out his interview, and one could hardly understand what he was saying.  The attacks came swiftly.  Evans found himself looking away.  There was no rhyme or reason to it.  Andrew screamed at moments, but was for the most part eerily silent.  When no discernable information could be drawn from him, dismemberment was utilized.  Richard’s vision became hyperfocused, clouded, accept for the edge of the serrated kitchen knife that Halstrom waved about.  The smell of the room turned sour, organic, like a compost bin.  That’s when he saw it.  His eyes met with the corner of Halstrom’s mouth, and there, as he began separating Andrew from his left index finger, was a smile.  An unmistakable smile.

Halstrom was not doing this for his country, for his government, or for the people.  Halstrom ENJOYED his work.  Halstrom was indeed, a psychopath, as Andrew had warned, given full license by the government to act according to his nature, and to be rewarded for it.  Richard moved to end the interrogation when Andrew motioned for mercy.  Halstrom stopped, almost surprised, and turned to the retiree.  Andrew pointed to Richard, who moved in close.  He spoke quickly, then leaned his head back.  As Halstrom approached with curiosity, Andrew spit blood in his eyes.  The salty sting blinded the Sergeant Major and he stumbled about while the other guard stood back unsure how to proceed.  Halstrom, infuriated, savagely planted his boot into Andrew’s sternum.  There was a dull crack of bone and cartilage.  Andrew’s breathing went sick and shallow.  Suddenly, he wheezed, and his eyes rolled over.  It was done.

Halstrom laughed awkwardly in his fervor and frothed.

“That’s what happens!  That’s how we handle things in MI now, Richard…”

24 hours later, Richard crossed an abandoned industrial park near Pensacola under cover of darkness, escorted by two squads of soldiers familiar with the terrain.  The area was known to be active with insurgents at certain times of the year.  The suspicion was that it was being used as an underground railroad; a place where terrorists freed from FEMA detention camps were funneled and relocated to the Rockies, where the resistance was strongest.  Andrew’s information was an address, and nothing more.  A rusted warehouse untouched by the fires that swept through the city a year ago.  Evans and his team were to survey the grounds and radio back to a larger force a few miles away.

The gulf twilight softened the air and the ocean breeze rolled over the landscape like fresh water.  The moment was serene despite the potential firefight that could erupt at any moment.  Richard peered up at the star broken sky and breathed deeply.  He wondered if Andrew Long had been here, alive and with dreams of an America lost and mostly forgotten.  It was a captivating brand of romanticism.  A beautiful but tragically uncompromising revelation.  The world was changing, and only the flexible, only the mutable, would live to enjoy it.

Richard and the two squads intersected the main building and closed off all exits.  Thermals showed no activity.  He was almost to the stairs when he lost his hearing.  A shockwave sliced through the room and the smell of a flashbang filled his nasal cavity.  There were gunshots.  He could not hear them, but he could feel the vibrating thump of directed gunpowder.  Two soldiers fell right in front of him.  He scrambled for cover when the heavy impact of a rifle butt struck him solidly in the back of the head.  Everything went black.

He awoke in a small room, clean, sterile.  A steel door at the far end.  No windows.  His hands were bound.  A single lightbulb hung from the ceiling.  The door opened, and a man, battle worn and intelligent looking, walked in with a chair.

“Captain Richard Evans, Military Intelligence, retired 2006, reactivated one week ago.  Ellen Evans, wife.  Three children, four grandchildren, all living in the Eastern NATO Safe Zone.”

Richard’s faculties were slowly returning.

“What do you want…?”

“My name is Adam, Captain, and I believe you know a friend of mine, Andrew Long…”

Richards heart sunk.

“Yes, I knew him.”

“….So then, he’s dead.”

“Yes…”

Adam shook his head sadly.

“He said someone like you would come here.  He said wait a week, and they’ll come.  The bastard was smart.  Smarter than me…”

Richard became visibly confused.

“Smarter than me too, it would seem…”

“You still don’t get it, do you?” Adam stared the old man down.  “He was captured on purpose.  When he finally gave this place up, he had to make it look real.  He had to be willing to take all the torture you monsters dished out so that you would believe him and come bumbling in here with a high level MI officer in tow.”

“I never tortured your friend.  I swear, I never touched him…”  Richard’s adrenaline began to take root and he had trouble controlling his mind.

“I believe you, Richard.  Don’t worry, we don’t torture our prisoners.”  Adam pulled his pistol from his holster and set it across his thigh.  “Do you understand?  There will be no torture here.”

Richard understood.

“All I want to know is, where are they keeping my friend’s body?  And the location of every other black-site detention facility you have been to.  Trains like the Redline included…”

Richard scoffed “The Redline is a myth.  A fairytale for insurgents…”

“I was on the Redline, Captain!”  Adam gripped his pistol tighter.

It was then that Richard Evans understood what the detainee had meant when he said that the Federal coalition was doomed to fail.  Despite the overwhelming military might of the government, Andrew Long was ready to endure any hell and even death for what he believed.  When faced with the same, most coalition forces would mentally crumble.  At that very moment, Richard himself had to admit he was unwilling to suffer, or to leave his wife and children behind, to protect the system he thought he believed in.  Without the force of will inspired by underlying principles, unerring and unyielding, without the support of a collective and individual conscience, the establishment system was fragile, and empty.  Richard, now faced with his imminent end, had doubts.  Andrew was right…

After telling his insurgent captors everything he knew, they locked the Captain in the cell with a canteen of water.  He had no idea if they would ever be back, or if they planned to let him waste away in there.  All he knew was, it was very cold…

You can contact Brandon Smith at:  [email protected]

Alt-Market is an organization designed to help you find like-minded activists and preppers in your local area so that you can network and construct communities for mutual aid and defense.  Join Alt-Market.com today and learn what it means to step away from the system and build something better.

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Author: Brandon Smith
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Date: December 9th, 2011
Website: http://alt-market.com

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63 Comments...

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    • MLG says:

      Um…WOW. Best place to hide is in plain sight I guess. thx for the link.

    • remember the rat that gets inside to stay warm in the winter

    • Ben Dover says:

      They just want to rehabilitate, counsel and guide us. They are our friends.

      Anybody who has posted or even visited here is probably on a list. Most of us could easily be broken during interrogation, but they will still fail in that there will be parts of USA that are outside government control. Many countries have areas like that, and these areas have functioning economies of their own. How much of USA could be maintained as a “green zone” as in Iraq (Which is not really safe. it is sometimes attacked directly)?

      Agree with Orlov that all empires collapse, usually under their own weight. Americans will be shocked at how our “allies” treat the corpse of USA.

      This assumes a collapse of USA, which I agree with DK being improbable in the short term, but possible because of factors outside the control of our government. Things like a major earthquake in the midwest would be seized upon by opportunists for many reasons. The US government at every level has made many enemies.

  1. Comenius says:

    Sorry. The same story happened with the Boers 110 years ago. The British, instead of going against the armed men, simply imprisoned all of the Boer “women and Children”. The Boers folded not long after.

    • grayfoxgreen says:

      Which gave us 100 years of “Boer” South Africa.In 50 years both will be a footnote in history.

    • Pooh says:

      Yes, thousands of whites (Boers) were rounded up and many women and children starved to death in the camps. By the time the Boers threw in the towel, it was too late. All there kids and woman folk were already dead. Starvation mainly. That was a British idea. Not too dissimilar to rounding up Indians and confining them to Reservations and staving them to death or infesting them with killer diseases. That attitude still remains, but now we’ve replaced people from “other cultures” with the term “useless eaters”

  2. Probably old news, but nevertheless, poignant.

    National Guard Ad for FEMA Prison Camp Positions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnA0_C6jLPY

  3. Comenius says:

    Historically, NOT ONE peasant rebellion ever succeeded, without foreign help. Even the French Revolution failed on 1814, with old king Louis (the brother of the one whose head was chopped off) entering in triumph with B-R-I-T-I-S-H help.

    I will probably cast my lot with the Establishment. They will be the last to collapse.

    • Xiccarph says:

      Nonetheless, they will collapse. No Empire ever lasted forever, and all decayed from within leading to being weak enough to invite foreign invaders or see the rise of a new ruling class. The US is not in the same geographic situation as Ancient Egypt, or Rome, or Akkadia/Babylon, etc. Potential enemies are not over the next mountain range or river valley. The likely success of a pure internal change here is much greater than if we had a China, N. Korea or Russia where Canada is. NATO? if the US collapses, do you think they will be in any economical position to come fight here? Europe will collapse before we do…they will have their OWN problems to deal with. Depending how you define “peasant rebellion”, The Bolshevicks and Mao’s Rebellion did succeed with essentially no direct foreign help. Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos were taken over by insurgents even with the mighty US as allied fighters and aiders to their established gov’ts. Yes, their gov’ts were corrupt elitist, and tyrannical, making them weak and vulnerable to internal insurgency…so, duh…how close to home does that scenario come?? Gov’ts come and go and all are destined to eventually fall. Gov’ts are by nature creatures that may start out with great intentions, but will inevitably begin mutating towards tyranny. Their purpose is to grow bigger and more controlling; they reach their apex and then begin their social and moral decline, becoming more tyrannical as they slide down the slope.

      • Comenius says:

        Vietnam, etc, received lots of aid from the Communist bloc. The Russian and the Chinese revolutions were helped by leftists in major western countries.

        Governments may come and go, but the people who rule rarely change, as seen after the fall of USSR that former apparachiks take over and did whatever they did before the fall of the Soviet regime, only more excessively.

        Practically everybody who is somebody in Russia, starting with Putin, had some position of power during the last days of the USSR, and used their power to enrich and empower themselves in the new regime.

      • Ben Dover says:

        Without USA, NATO is an impotent farce. Just look at Libya.

      • Ben Dover says:

        You could add that every empire has thought they would be the one to last forever…the empire upon which the sun would never set, the reich to last a thousand years, etc.

    • The Old Coach says:

      Including our own Revolution, which was supported by the Dutch and the French, as a means to stick a finger in the eye of Britain, with whom they were at war.

    • JustMe says:

      “Those who would appease the tiger, do so in the hopes of being eaten last.”
      Winston Churchill

    • Gunsmith says:

      ~Comenius~

      Then get on your knees, grovel & lick the boots of your ‘Establishment Oppressors’………..

      ………..& may the rest of us here, intentionally forget, that YOU were ever our countryman!!!

      ——————–COWARD——————-!!!

    • Ben Dover says:

      Comenius is telegraphing that he/she would be one of the the people who would feed people to the gooberment, probably even making up accusations, in the hope that he/she would be left alone. In the end, it would draw gubermint attention, just as school teachers view tattle-tales with suspicion.

  4. Mike says:

    I was at Eglin AFB last week and yes, there is a detention camp located there. This story makes me really wonder where its all going

  5. clem says:

    I talked to a fuzzy haired kid a couple weeks ago about his experience in Afghanistan. I asked; Those insurgents, were just locals?

    Yah. They didn’t want us there. They would launch RPG’s at our convoys along the border of Pakistan. I would have much rather been back in Iraq.

    The Russians tried but failed due to the technology.

    When asked if the areas could be opened up for mining in the future, his response was no. It would be too dangerous.

    This is what I had expected. Just wanted to share it with the community.

  6. Proud2KoAm says:

    My ancestors, as police minions working for the Japanese government during the Japanese rule of Korea, tortured the local insurgents very harshly.

    When the Japanese were defeated, my ancestors actually got promoted and became real police officers in South Korea and this time hunted down communist insurgents, often the same people they hunted during the Japanese rule. My ancestors did quite fine, but as a safekeeping they all sent their progeny to America.

    The insurgents will stay as insurgents, and will be waterboarded to death. After all, the Korean-American John Yoo, who legalized waterboarding and said crushing a potential insurgent’s testicle was a commendable thing, is still doing well.

  7. Joe says:

    My grandfather once told me when asked about what he did in WW2 he said he was a teacher and why do I think it was over. That was in 1970’s
    He said war is never over. Man suffers from a Psychosis called Tyranny of the majority. There will always be people who feel justified taking away your freedoms.
    All you can do is fight it at every step. However the Psychosis will inevitably prevail. Tyranny is the only cure for the Psychosis.

  8. Sayldog says:

    The West didn’t just allow communism in China (and everywhere else), they instigated it.
    For starters see “How China Became Communist” http://www.thefreelibrary.com/How+China+became+communist%3A+to+understand+why+Mao+triumphed,+it+is…-a0173421371

  9. Philippino Bob says:

    Right after the Berlin wall fall I was often in Lithuania and many dead bodies were seen floating on the river. It was like at least several bodies per day and then after a few months it completely ceased.
    Nobody really knew who the dead were. Was it revenge killings or suicides, nobody had any answers.
    So remember, any radical change in government is a bloody proposition.

  10. alc says:

    It will not haunt me the way the Young Adult classic, “I Am The Cheese”, author something Cormier, does.

    And dang it, it’s a dagger and a woodrose. Sheesh! And the MI colors are blue and yellow/gold.

    Now, remember what I said yesterday about the officer types coming from a middle-class background and the enlisted types, the backbone of the military, coming from working-class backgrounds? A few of the officer/MI types will be effective sadists, most will simply be bumblers.

  11. Plain Old American says:

    And it’s five, six, seven open up the pearly gates. Well there ain’t no time to wonder why, whoopee we’re all gonna die….

  12. EastTenn says:

    Have you ever studied the French Revolution? I watched a documentary about it on the History Channel about a week ago. It is amazing the parallels between what sparked it and what our government is doing today. I would highly recodmend studying it. If history repeats itself or at least plays a tune that rhymes, then my friends, prepare yourself for alot of death and destruction. Of course, those same scenarios has already ocurred in several countries already recently and we see the results. Before this country is made whole again and returns back to its origins, their will be plenty of blood shed.
    If you have not started stockpiling food,medical supplies, ammunition, etc, I urge you start now. Their is no time to wait. The end is rapidly approaching. If it is one thing I have learned in my short life is that although you cannot control the events of history, you can be as prepared as you possibly can be to deal with and hopefully survive what history hands out to you.
    However,the most important thing you can do is make peace with your God. Remember, we all will die sometime whether with a gun in our hand in the near future or an old man in a rocking chair. Death comes to all men unless my Christ returns first and takes me home which would be fine with me.

  13. This should be required reading in every school! You want to talk about history, this is history doomed to repeat itself because everyone wants to believe that the atrocities of war and power grabbing psychopaths are “in the past.” The constitution is in the past, this is the future.

    “Welcome to The Mark David Show, where the truth IS a conspiracy!”
    markdavidshow.com

  14. Giurza says:

    OK, this story is very inspiring and butiful [sic], but I have to ruin it for you guys…
    My family, my ancestors went through soviet occupation and a resulting partisan war in Lithuania (1944-1956). A failed one!
    Almost everyone perished in the said period. Either in Gulag, forests or in concentration camp in Lithuania itself. So I have a certain perspective on this issue, even though I didn’t live through that.
    first of all, let me tell you, there is no man who can withstand torture without spilling his guts. Our partisans knew that and that is why capture was imminent they would blow their heads with hand grenades. hand grenade was meant not only to kill a man, but also blow his head/face off so that when NKVD tossed their bodies in the town’s square their relatives would not recognize them and thus give themselves up.
    if you want something that is more close to your cultural background, read B20 by Andy McNab. No man withstands torture…
    I do understand the fury and rage that is going on in your (and my) hearts when you think of the injustice and fascist actions of your gooberment, and some may think that this righteous feeling is enough to do great things, to make you a hero, charging home, holding one’s head high even in the darkest of hours, withstanding horrible tortures etc… this is all nice, good, honorous and … TOTALLY UNREALISTIC. more than that – it will lead to untimely defeat.
    when fighting this kind of war one must have the moral superiority over establishment, yes, but if you loose your sense of reality, you are FUBAR’ed right there and then! that is why Lithuanian partisan war was lost! because of the lack of real military thinking.
    I had my POW training in Sweden, and it was sissy stuff… You were exhausted after two weeks of survival training, you were then taken “captive” and brought to a compound where you were forced to stand in stress positions, you were disallowed sleep and food, got drink though. for those who were from Baltic states, it was a cakewalk, actually we thought it was a joke. but for SOME of the soft civilized Swedes it was a nightmare. and this was nowhere near the real stuff… some Swedes truly spilled their guts, just to get a cracker and some cocoa with milk.
    this is my message – when time comes (and it darn looks like it is almost upon us) and the fight for life and freedom begins, DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN BE A HERO!!!!! this is a frakking fairytale!!! be realistic, avoid capture at all cost, think and think again, how to deastroy your enemy, how to fool him, how to infiltrate him, but never ever ever fool yourself that you can pull something like this story out!
    if you are going to fight gooberment, then do me, yourself and yours a favour by reading following books (those are readily available to download from internet, you just have to search really hard to find them)-
    Lester W. Grau – The bear went over the mountain
    Lester W. Grau – The other side of the mountain
    Lester W. Grau – The Soviet-Afghan War
    Bazil Liddell Hart – Strategy of Indirect Approach
    FM 34-60 Counterintelligence
    FM 34-8-2 Intelligence Officer’s Handbook
    B-GL-357-002 Human Intelligence (HUMINT) Operations
    and many more, but those are probably crucial!

    • Joe says:

      The people of the USA are not farmers. They are mostly educated, involved, informed people who love liberty.

      However this dosent mean thay are smart all the time.

      Personally I dont think that there is any plan to take over the USA. I dont see a motive for it. I do see the ever encroaching threat to our freedoms but until the Constitution is changed I cant ever see support from the people for it. Until then people will just vote. Hopefully all this noincense will reach a peak then die off. That is the nature of everything. They wont fight due to the illusion that they live in a free society.
      But once that illusion is gone, It will be a very messy fight that no one will win. Perhaps the Chinese. Not us.

      • Giurza says:

        uh… well, not all Lithuanians were farmers either… so the point there is quite moot
        to the other question of whether there is some point in taking over USA… what other more lucrative target would you suggest? would you rather take over Zanzibar? wealthy elite are not stupid, if you play that game you go for the highest target, take it over quietly and then after the pieces are in place, the sheople get to know about it as fait accompli…
        as to the reason why sheople wont fight, I think you are spot on! it is this illusion that we are free in a free society that keeps us from understanding that we are already up to our necks in a quick sand (many still think it is some sort of very warm and cosy sleeping bag and not a quicksand at all)

        • Joe says:

          The Luthianans werent all farmers. But they werent all that involved or dependant on their own work either.

          The PTB already have the best con going. Making themselves richer and the populace being willing partners.
          They are also if you take a good look around you, destroying the economy. No Economy = no wealth.

          So I cant believe in the rich get richer senerio.

        • Giurza says:

          Joe says:
          The Lithuanians werent all farmers. But they werent all that involved or dependant on their own work either.

          uh… got me there… I have no idea what you just said there, must be my bad english…

      • Mama Bear says:

        Joe, you are the very definition of a sheeple. First your assumption that farmers are not educated, informed, involved people who love liberty. There is nothing like an agrarian perspective to instill true wisdom, and the farmers in my family are just as wise, if somewhat more practical, effective and honest, than many of the fancy ivy league types I have known. Plus they can change a lightbulb. Second…no motivation to control the US? This bountiful breadbasket overflowing with milk and honey, grain and timber, fish, wild game, and petroleum reserves? Are you serious? Well! I guess if you are stupid about farmers, then you are stupid about the value of land as well. Finally you reveal yourself to be an extremely poor thinker if you think an existential danger arises, and then the nonsense peaks and dies off. Really??? It just goes away by itself because a bunch of fat lazy people walk into a voting booth and pull some levers? Dang, who knew it was so easy? Thanks for taking the time to illuminate us with your scintillating insights. /high dudgeon off

        • Anonymous says:

          Mama Bear
          You are clueless.
          The guy was talking about 1940’s Eastern european pesants.
          Not modern Farmers.
          By the way. Im a farmer/rancher too.

          You also have little understanding on how the economy works. Of course we have resources. However resources are not where money is made today. Money is made by creating a market for a product and adding value to those resources.

          For example. You can produce Magnesium and sell it for $1.25 per pound today. However if you take a oz of that and make yourself a scope ring that people like you can get more than $1000 from that same pound of magnesium.

          If you destroy the economy, you have no market. If you have resources but have no innovative people to create products from those resources then you just have a pile of minerals in your back yard. But whats the point, you already have no customers so why make the product in the first place?
          The same goes for gasoline or oil. If people dont have good paying jobs to be able to pay high prices at high volumne than they dont have any profit. So whats the point?

          Today the people in the know make huge profits by being the distributors of goods and the receivers of government contracts for things like healthcare, millitary contracts and property leases.

          Like I said, There is no profit in a take over for those who take over. The best thing to do it they were after money and wealth is to INCREASE the economy and put more people to work.

          So like I said before I dont buy the whole greed Idea.

        • Joe says:

          Mamma Bear.
          I am a farmer/rancher. 😀
          My relatives came from East Europe at the time of Stalin so I have a pretty good grasp of how they think.

          About sheeple. Your understanding of the economy is below the level of most sheeple. On a scale of 0-10 you rate about a 2. I suggest that you study some before you make dumb comments.

          Wealth is not made from raw materials. It is made by the value added to it by intelligent, hardworking people with dreams.

          I suppose you are one of the people who dont vote but hate what has happened to our country. You can only blame yourself and others like you.

          The other side voted and got what they voted for.

          If you dont participate your only choices will be a dictator or a Fascist.

        • Mama Bear says:

          Joe, and Anonymous, what I was specifically responding to was Joe’s insinuation that farmers are not “educated, involved, informed people who love liberty.” It is helpful that you clarified that this was specifically regarding the peasantry, as there is a big difference between a peasant and an actual land-owning farmer, which is what my family has been since they came over from Germany during the American revolution and shortly thereafter. They continue to farm and hold advanced degrees from one of the most prestigious land grant universities in the midwest. I think that people like this, from Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, on through today, are the backbone of the American ideal, as they are truly stewards of the earth. Joe, you don’t say what part of the “Bloodlands” your family comes from, but from what I have read of the Kulaks, they were a similar backbone in the Ukraine, which is why they were utterly destroyed by Stalin. They were the gentleman class of landed farmers and thus a threat to tyranny.

          Far from being an ignoramus on economic matters, I have had a front row seat on the markets since 2000 as I work in the financial services. This is why I have a visceral reaction against anyone who thinks of farmers in this century or last as being stupid. I think our society has a horribly abusive attitude against farmers, one that I see all the time in my jaunts to one of the great financial centers of the east coast, and one that is currently being played out, yet again, with MF Global, where farmers are going bankrupt and can’t even buy their seeds for the spring planting. Yet Corzine will likely get a free pass, and we lionize Goldman Sachs. I have more respect for folks who made their kids clothes out of feed sacks so they could keep their 500 acres in the family for a century and a half.

          So don’t preach to me about Value Added when that is exactly the crap that is going to be screwing us over for generations to come, all the leverage and risk management models and other brilliant innovations that, surprise, have failed. As ranchers I am sure that you are doing your own version of Value Added by pumping your animals full of all kinds of things out at the good old feedlot and sending them to be processed into Spam….but once again I shouldn’t be making assumptions, and can’t cast stones considering my industry.

          I think we always have to be vigilant against the next Stalin, Mao or Mugabe, men who are willing to absolutely desecrate and destroy a civilization to maintain power…and having previously been college faculty, I am not so sure Americans have the ability to do so.

          Oh…and I haven’t missed a vote in the 20 years I have been of voting age, except when I was away at grad school. I even held my nose and voted for McCain, who I now know is a treasonous old fool.

        • Giurza says:

          Anonymous says:
          Mama Bear
          You are clueless.
          The guy was talking about 1940′s Eastern european pesants.

          oh… so we were PEASANTS. Great, thank you for enlightening me oh Glorious one!
          for your consideration – my father’s grandfather was a farmer and a nobleman, educated man, his father was a mayor of local region. and father’s grandad died in Silute’s concentration camp right next to where I live now because he participated in armed struggle against soviet occupants.
          Great to see such indepth knowledge on your part. I guess you would argue if I would blatantly declare that Washington and Jefferson were peasants…. makes two of us then.

        • Giurza says:

          Joe says:
          Mamma Bear.
          I am a farmer/rancher. 😀
          My relatives came from East Europe at the time of Stalin so I have a pretty good grasp of how they think.

          I don’t want to insult your relatives, but you know how THEY think, but not how people here thought about THEM who ran from our country. we regard them (the male part) as traitors and cowards. up to 40 000 partisans died in the forests of Lithuania alone! so don’t frakking tell me you know jack$hit about our people. if you think they were stupid peasants with no involvement and no idea about freedom, it is definitely your right, but just do yourself a favour – don’t go around showing your ignorance to others, because there are always people around that just might know alot more about the subject than you.
          (I constantly strive to live by the same rule)

    • Proudt2BKoAm says:

      And, everybody who is somebody is more likely to be the descendants of the torturers than descendants of the ones who were tortured.

      The Strong eats the Weak. Always be on the side with guns.

      No matter what, in the end the Mainstream is Always Right. Those who killed the most will take the girls and propagate their genes, while those who were killed will be eliminated from the universe forever! (LOFTLMAO)

      • Giurza says:

        and the point is?…
        I could torture as well, and I will. all those that try to enslave me and my family. however if you think that those who torture on behalf of Mainstream will get a chance to propagate, than you are wrong. Nazi followers were also mainstream in nazi Germany, look at their offsprings now – the fruits of mass rape by the Red Army conscripts.
        KGB torturers? they didn’t get their Nurnberg but they drank themselves dull and besides, not much in terms of offsprings there, look at Putkin 🙂
        and besides, Mainstream is something that is fleeting and nonconstant… regime ancient was mainstream before French revolution, loyalism was mainstream in colonies before 1776… where is that mainstream now?
        one can argue that there is some major survival benefit in clinging to the strong side, but for me it means that you relinquish your principles and your very essence. ask yourself if this is the way you want to go? is collaborating worth your life? is it worth to be alive if you are but a shell of a former free man? is it?
        then remember the cases of some Russian Czar officers who went over to the reds in revolution – they were ALL shot or rotted in gulags after civil war was over.
        Using words of Sharong Agathon from BSG – “you pick a side and stick to the course, you don’t change your principles halfway, that’s no life” (or something like that, to lazy to look up exact wording…

        • Mama Bear says:

          Giurza, I really appreciate the depth and intelligence you bring to these discussions….thank you for being so willing to provide a thoughtful perspective from across the ocean. That goes to Manos too.

        • Proudt2BKoAm says:

          Loyalists were not punished ; Benedict Arnold died a quiet death in England, and the nation of Canada is bigger than the United States.

          Some lower-ranking minions, like in all major wars, are disposed like trash to be left to rot. But the more adaptable, the most cunning, and the most nasty and ruthless always survive and do fine in any regime, and are likely to have descendants at the top level.

          Sometimes they leave and reinvent themselves, like Patton’s ancestor, whose acts during the Scottish rebellion was questionable. He fled to America and refused to reveal who he really was till his death, and his progeny included the best known US general since US Grant.

          Every organization has 78 useless paper-pushers, like the kgb low-rankers who drink themselves to death. But the other 22, like John Yoo, thrive and drink champagne, laughing over those they tortured and made to suffer.

        • Giurza says:

          Thanx Mama Bear! Thank you for your kind words ma’m!

          as to you, Proudt2BKoAm, I see no point in further escalating this discussion with the likes of you. I just have to tell you this – I await the day when I see you on the other side of the barricades. you would be dangling on the tree as a good torturer that you want to be, and I’d be standing under, saying slowly:
          SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

      • Mama Bear says:

        Wow , Korean…not to stereotype, but I believe that you are one of the only Koreans I have witnessed who lacks a basic grasp on how genetics work. That’s a pretty impressive accomplishment. See, the girls that your family tortured and raped, after eating their husbands and fathers (cannibalism? Yum…) also contribute their familial genes to the mix. duh? At any rate, if I were descended from your family, I would seriously consider not passing my torture-lovin’ genes on to my progeny. I hope your children don’t hang themselves out of shame and disgust for their father…surely you are not a mother, celebrating the torturers in your lineage. Why don’t you brag about this to your friends and coworkers, and find how you are regarded?

        • Proudt2BKoAm says:

          AFAIK I have no disgust over my ancestors. After all if they didn’t do what they had to, I would still be in poverty, and I would never have known this site existed.

          I don’t care how my friends regard me; in fact it gives them a reason to fear me, since they know the stock I come from.

        • Mama Bear says:

          Korean, there is physical poverty and there is spiritual poverty. Most of the Koreans I know are honorable, loving, humble Christians who rose to wealth through intelligence and hard work…their faiths didn’t need to torture anyone, and if anything would have been on the receiving end. I am fortunate to come from a lineage of gentle warriors…honorable men who answered their country’s call and fought honorably. I think in your heart your innermost thoughts likely don’t align with what you have posted here.

  15. alc says:

    Giurza makes a good point. I remember Basic Training with fondness, I’d never had life so good. I was used to walking for miles, and in Basic I got to do it wearing shoes! But the others were mostly not used to walking for miles and would get blisters. They didn’t appreciate the food which was DAMN good no Sodexho then.

    I was going to write something about how drugs, even from fairly common plants if you know what you’re doing, can be used to make people hallucinate, dream, dissociate, etc and you can get info out of ’em without striking a blow. You can use sensory overload/underload techniques. There are all sorts of ways….

    But face it, like I like to say, “I don’t always have WD-40, but I always have cuss words!” Abu Ghraib and Gitmo show that our guys are still primitive idiots who will use physical torture. The problem there is, we’re torturing fruit sellers and cab drivers who will come up with stuff, invent stuff, to avoid pain. This is why physical torture is so stupid. The really unrealistic thing in the story is so many days or weeks in, the torturee is still so lucid. A real operator will find a way to kill himself or shut himself off.

    At the end of the story, the insurgents should have taken that MI guy they caught and welcomed him to join him, gotten his family out there safe, etc – what a strong ally he would be.

    But then, it’s fiction!

  16. Shane Vandrell says:

    The “United States” is a system people. That system is our enemy. Look around you. What do you see? Teachers, doctors, business men. The vary minds of the people, we are trying to save. But until we do this people are still a part of this system, and that makes them our enemy! You have to understand most of these people are not ready to wake up. And many of them are so dependent on the system, that will fight to protect it. Keep it up Mac! We love Mac and Alex Jones!

  17. EastTenn says:

    If fighting did erupt here in the states, I believe 2 very important things to consider is location and the National Guard. I live in East Tennessee which is fairly rural and mountainous. There are several rivers that flow thru here so that would be an added benefit. It would be difficult to safely move large amounts of troops and supplies from one area to another with-out the threat of sniper fire. Blow up a bridege here and there, take-out a train track or two and you have problems. Sure, they are not the rockies but they still make for some rough terrain. Not just here, but the whole range of the Appalachians from the deep south to past New York. The fighting will be sniper style fighting through valleys. The terrain would not allow easy travel but through passes and valleys that would be filled with ex-deer hunters with high powered rifles. I could see the same scenerio playing out in places like the Rockies, Cascades, Etc. The military would rather spend its time on the larger cities than the blood bath that would await them in these areas. Also, folks living in these areas are usually more self-reliant than their city dwelling counterparts so alot harder to control. Remember the largest army in the world is not a country but the common man and woman of the United States
    The national guard units would also play a pivotal part. Several members of the guard never served in the standard military but just the guard. I am not discounting their service in Iraq or Afganistan or training. I just mean that when they were done with thier tour, they went back home to their families and jobs. They are our neighbors, our co-workers, etc, and would be more apt not to go along with the military and side with the people. Also, their are all kinds of national guard armeries around with plenty of goodies that are not heavily guarded. If the military has a hard time keeping the country the size of Iraq under control with 100000 plus troops, they are going to have a very hard time maintaing order in a country this size and well-armed as we are. I also suspect that a large percentange of the military would not go along with it either and join the resistance.
    I pray that this scenario never plays out and scanity plays out but I doubt it.

    • Ben Dover says:

      An insurgency in USA would be the same game of whack-a-mole the USA is currently playing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even when an area is “stabilized”, as soon as you turn your back the fire has rekindled. Look at the Balkens as soon as the Soviets left. But alas, the USSR only stayed for about 50 years. Insurgents have only one tactic that has any chance of success, and that is the slow grind.

    • greaseman says:

      The Hollywood version of this future conflict can’t be ignored. The most well know is “Red Dawn”. I think this movie gives at least a fairly credible example of what could happen. Common sense dictates that many people, especially in rural areas, just aren’t going to go along with be corraled into situations that they don’t want. Most people just want to be left alone. I can see the authorities having continuos road blocks and the such, but going house to house in rural areas, and rousting people for no good reason, isn’t going to work.
      Once resistance starts, it will snowball. I just can’t see the “good ole boys” putting up with this crap too much. This land belongs to them, and not some “foreign” representatives from who knows where.

  18. MM2nuke says:

    Lots of family and friends in the reserves, nasty guard, and active duty. From what I know and hear 80% or more are on OUR side. It always seems darkest before the dawn.
    It will have to be foreign (UN?) troops to take us, since most will not fire on our own people. Those that do will be dealt with by their fellow squad mates.

  19. Death N Taxes says:

    the thought of our professional military eschewing their oath to defend the constitution, siding with the leftists/marxists and turning on their own people makes me feel sick inside.

    I guess some people would do anything for a gram of power and a steady paycheck.

  20. SWIFT says:

    Leaving a canteen of water in a room with a prisoner with a brand new .45 caliber butt hole in his forehead; is how it would have worked out with me.

  21. EastTenn says:

    I believe the main difference here is that I do not know if our military will fire on its own people. I know some will but i still believe the vast majority would not. As some one has already stated, it would take an outside force such as the UN to come in. The only problem here is that the UN is going to have its own problems in Europe to deal with. The thought of UN troops on our soil makes mine and Im sure most everyone in here blood boil. I would have less of a problem giving an UN soldier lead poisoning than a member of the US military.

  22. Death N Taxes says:

    lotta low-income minorities, foreigners seeking citizenship, activist faggits, muslims, down-low communists and political anarchists, and straight-up psychopaths in the military today…..tens of thousands of them…

    I don’t trust them.

  23. Hello again all,
    Whooo, that short story bred a number of opinions. Remember one thing, even though it was fiction, storys always come from within. We all know our beloved coutry has changed from the old days. We speculate on what is coming and it doesn’t look pretty, regardless of what scenario happens. Even if nothing happened our collapse will happen in time. I’m an engineer, I wander and drive all over and look at the structures and infrastructure, we have decay right in front of us and most people do not see that.
    We also see the moral decay around us. Hollywood constantly propagandizing all forms of behavior that 40 years ago, no-one would talk about, and they try to make it everyday acceptable. You know exactly what I’m talking about.
    I raise my daughter to be a God fearing christian. She can shoot, cook, can, garden, use a computer, take care of livestock as my wife and I do also. We do not “Cotton” to the ways things are in the big city even though we have to live there.
    We do have our place in the country and are constantly doing what we can to prepare it for whatever comes.

    On the Americans shooting Americans, I’d be an idealist to think this will not happen, but we have sociopaths that run this country, sociopaths I’ve met in the engineering community, they are everywhere. That is a reality and they couldn’t give a rats ass if we live, breath, get tortured, die or whatever, we have those in the military as well, I’m not talking about the ones that make you work and sweat and cry, you work sweat and cry so you don’t bleed and die when you are out there. You in the military know the ones, like we in civilian life know the pos that we have to deal with now, whilst keeping our mouths shut. I have a sociopath in my family, he is crazy as a loon, will steal from anyone without a thought about anything than himself. HE WOULD BE THE 1ST ONE TO TURN IN ANYONE FOR ANY REASON, during a crisis. Then there are those who will keep the status quo as long as they don’t see anything bad directly, the sheeple.
    AS far as our miltary turning on us. I imagine some will.
    I also think the majority will not. Do we realize how many veterans we have in civilian population? Do you really think they will go against us peasants? They are part of us and will be our staunchest ally. Some police will as well.
    For me, I’ll hide when the time comes and do my best to hide those I love. Prep while I can, but when I go to ground I will, I can and have lived deep in the shit…it’s not fun but it is do-able, keepin the fam safe is another thing, we have some serious planning and more preppin to do.

    God help us all and keep us safe, may his face shine on you may his prescence bring you peace,

    Terry W. Reed
    LNL PROTEKT LLC

  24. MM2nuke says:

    I think the only way that they can pull off martial law and destroy everything this country stands for us by an EMP. Within 6 months there won’t be enough people left to fight back effectively afterwards.
    The globalists and socialists that want control also have admitted to wanting to kill off 90% of the population worldwide even those on the obama czar committee have admitted this.
    A pandemic flu would pose too much risk to themselves and others that are part of their plans so I think the EMP will be their option over the more technology dependent countries that they want to crush.
    They just don’t realize that even then we still outnumber them, are better trained and have GOD and rightious furry on our side.
    Rant over,
    Good luck all, ugly starts after Christmas