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Strategic Relocation Briefing: Utah: Someplace Warm, Safe, And Far Away From Major Metro Areas

Joel Skousen
September 20th, 2014
Strategic Relocation
Comments (341) Read by 18,207 people

This week’s Strategic Relocation Briefing by Joel Skousen, compliments of the Strategic Relocation web site, takes us to Southern Utah. As you’ll see from Mr. Skousen’s assessment, if you are living in Southern California or Arizona this may just be the area you’re looking for as an ideal retreat location. It’s got fairly warm weather in winter, low crime rates and it’s far enough away from major metro areas that you won’t have to worry about a golden horde overrunning your town in the event of a major crisis. 

As always, Mr. Skousen puts forth an insightful analysis focusing on essential criteria that should be on your checklist no matter where you’re looking to live (or retreat to). Water, food availability and population density are critical factors. But just as important in a crisis is accessibility. You need to be able to reach your safe haven in an emergency, but you want it in such a locale that those leaving the major cities in search of scarce resources won’t ever make it to you. This is why exploring the primary thoroughfares to your retreat area is so critical and why it’s important to stay informed about what’s happening in the world. When a crisis is imminent you need to be first to act so as to avoid the inevitable traffic that will block exit points out of your city (and have a back up exit strategy in case you get bogged down with everyone else).  

When you are ready to explore retreat areas around the country take a look at the Strategic Relocation For Sale By Owner listings, where you’ll find preparedness-minded search tools, analysis and property ratings. 

For questions about a particular area or assistance with relocation contact Survival Retreat Consulting.

For additional analysis and information by Joel Skousen you can review previous Strategic Relocation Briefings covering regions all over the United States, as well as international expat destinations.

southern-utah-1(Pictured: Farm in rural Southern Utah)


Strategic Relocation Briefing: Southern Utah
By Joel Skousen
Author, Strategic Relocation and The Secure Home

Southern Utah has two key advantages as a retreat area:  1) it’s the closest 5-star rated state (Utah and Idaho) within a day’s drive of Southern California and Phoenix and 2) it’s the only area in that high security region that has a moderate and sunny winter climate.  Yes, both of those are compromise criteria, but there are a lot of people in SoCal and So. Arizona that desperately need a safe retreat option within reach by car.

Although seeking a warm climate retreat is a contradiction of terms relative to safety, you’d be surprised how many consultation calls I get from people who feel they can’t tolerate the cold of the safer northern retreat areas and want to relocate to someplace warm.  They want both safety and a warm balmy climate for easy living during the remaining good years. That’s never possible in the truly warm winter areas because the easy living climate always attracts too many people of the soft, fun loving variety who don’t do well in a crisis. That said, Southern Utah is about the warmest climate they’ll get at the southern end of the highly rated Intermountain West.  It rarely freezes there, as evidenced by the proliferation of desert palm trees.

One of the reasons the Intermountain West is rated so high for safety is its distance from major metro areas like LA and Phoenix—and also because those distances are composed of dry, inhospitable deserts with few way stations.  The single freeway going north is going to be a major impediment to travel, even if there is some fuel in people’s tanks.  Like Katrina, this freeway with its many narrow passes will become quickly blocked with stalled vehicles that have broken down or run out of fuel. And, walking isn’t an option for most.  People who count on this retreat option will need advance warning.

Southern Utah’s main disadvantage is that it is only an hour and a half by freeway from Las Vegas. But cities like Vegas will also provide the benefit of absorbing most of the refugees coming out of California.  That will inevitably drive some people to push farther north for relief—putting Mesquite NV at high risk. But, there’s only one road going north from Mesquite to St. George, Utah and that’s I-15, which has to traverse the narrow Virgin River canyon of No. Arizona—a road that can be easily blocked if the locals see themselves in danger of being overrun.

Even though city of St. George itself isn’t the retreat destination I recommend it is the hub of Southern Utah, and will serve as your commercial and cultural center if you have a retreat in the surrounding areas.  It has a nice combination of old Utah pioneer architecture (red sandstone) and the Southwestern look of stucco and tiled roof houses that match a desert landscape.  There are red rock mountains and views in all directions with plenty of outdoor activities.

The area experienced a major building boom up until 2008 so it’s now a very modern community but still has a family friendly atmosphere.  I like how they have redone the downtown area.  They’ve preserved and modernized all the old pioneer historical buildings, and then integrated it all into a pedestrian mall type environment mixed with shops and markets surrounding with a tiled water course in the middle of town that families visit in the evenings to stroll around and let kids splash in the shallow water course—good planning for a desert community.

There are plenty of water resources in the mountains (which water hungry Las Vegas covets) so Southern Utah isn’t in the same dire situation as California for water supplies. I don’t recommend anything close to the I-15 corridor, but there are good residential locations to the West of St. George tucked away behind the high red rock Mesa that used to serve as the St. George airport—like a giant aircraft carrier in the desert.  In general, the valley behind the mesa is called Green Valley and follows the Santa Clara river up to Santa Clara and Ivans.  Hwy 18 leads you up to the mountain communities of Veyo and the Pine Valley mountain areas where you find the best cabin retreat—still at moderate altitudes.

To the northeast of St. George, heading toward the spectacular Zion’s National Park are the towns of Hurricane, La Verkin, and Toquerville.  Hurricane has some good irrigated farm lands to the south of town, and two small airports as well. A couple of my SoCal clients who are private pilots have opted for the airplane escape option and have found property in Hurricane near the public airport, or at Sky Ranch, the private airpark and homesite area just a little farther south.  All the farm areas in Hurricane are a fair distance from the path tourists take to nearby Zions National Park.

The Toquerville area is a small by out of the way town with a few small farms to the north of La Verkin.  It is particularly noted for its fine gravity fed water supply, both for domestic water and for pressurized irrigation—naturally pure, and doesn’t depend on pumps like the communities that depend on the Virgin River for irrigation.

Just north of St. George, but still part of Southern Utah is Cedar City, which has a university (SUU) and the well known Shakespeare summer theater (which has a lot more than Shakespeare).  While St. George is around 3000 feet in altitude, Cedar City is up in the high plateau starting at 4500-5500.  You can still get a full growing season at the high desert altitudes on  irrigated land, but it’s cold in the winter. I mention this area as part of this analysis only because people in St. George often have retreats out in the mountains to the east of Cedar City on highway 14 where we find the high mountain retreats sites of Duck Creek.  But, at 8500 feet of altitude, you get lots of snow in the winter, along with the beautiful stands of fir and pine trees.

A lesser known part of Southern Utah is the area Kanab, and the farming valley going north on highway 89.  Kanab was for many years a kind of backwater Hollywood base for making western movies in the Red Rock country of Utah and Arizona.  It’s also the gateway to the north rim of the Grand Canyon—by far the prettiest side of the Canyon, with its magnificent Pine forests. Highway 89 is also the only rural highway access coming north from Arizona around the Grand Canyon.  Going north into Utah, Hwy 89 is dotted with lots of old Mormon Pioneer communities with farmland along the Sevier river—there are a few retreat sites away from the highway.

For those who have the means to really get away into some breathtaking retreat country, try Tropic, Utah, east of the spectacular Bryce Canyon National Park.  To get even deeper into retreat paradise, follow Hwy 12 to Boulder, Ut at the base of the forested Aquarius Plateau of mountains.  It’s a pristine little farming community surrounded by some of the best hunting areas of Utah—“Ain’t nobody going to find you there!” as they say.

Always check www.strategicrelocation.com for private listings of retreat property when you begin your search, wherever you decide to make your strategic relocation to.  Retreat consultant Todd Savage who runs the site does a good job of sifting through the offerings and providing you insights and ratings into the pros and cons of each.

Lastly, be sure to stop by the Sustainable Preparedness Expo in Spokane, Washington on Sunday September 21st, where I will be speaking and meeting attendees.

See more Strategic Relocation Briefings by Joel Skousen

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Author: Joel Skousen
Views: Read by 18,207 people
Date: September 20th, 2014
Website: http://www.strategicrelocation.com/

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341 Comments...

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  1. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    Relocate to Where? Is anyplace safe?
    This is what happens when you Poke the Russian Bear:

    US, Candada send jets to intercept Russian aircraft
    Sep 19th 2014 9:04PM Source: AOL.com
    (Reuters) – U.S. and Canadian fighter jets intercepted Russian aircraft that were flying near U.S. and Canadian air space this week, a military spokesman said on Friday.

    The United States and Russia are increasingly at odds over Ukraine, where Russian-backed separatists have been fighting for control of parts of the former Soviet state.

    On Wednesday, six Russian aircraft entered the United States’ air defense identification zone (ADIZ), an area beyond sovereign U.S. airspace, according to a statement from NORAD, a U.S. and Canadian aerospace command, and U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM).

    In response, “two Alaskan-based F-22 fighter jets acting under the authority of NORAD identified and intercepted two Russian IL-78 refueling tankers, two Russian Mig-31 fighter jets and two Russian Bear long-range bombers in the ADIZ, west of Alaska,” the statement said.

    On Thursday, Canadian fighter jets intercepted two Russian Bear long-range bombers in the Canadian ADIZ.

    The Russian bombers did not enter the United States’ or Canada’s sovereign airspace.

    John Cornelio, a spokesman for NORAD and NORTHCOM, said that such intercepts had happened over 50 times in the last five years as Russian aircraft conducted exercises.

    “We do not see these flights as a threat,” he said.

    • Any Mouse says:

      It happens all the time, We fly close to their airspace and they respond in kind. They fly close to ours and we respond. It’s been going on for at least 25 years that I know of.

    • yourmotherwaswrong says:

      WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      “This is what happens when you Poke the Russian Bear.”

      Bullshit! “This is what happens when” the “Washington District of Criminals” run amuck, and no one hangs for crimes against humanity!!!

    • CWinOR says:

      O/T- but relates to yesterday regarding infectious disease.

      Recently, my ex (and roommate (don’t ask- it’s complicated but cool)) and her boyfriend went to WA. to visit some of his family for a week. While there, they both came down with a nasty respiratory bug, which they felt the need to share with me once they got back. While many of the symptoms could be attributed to a flu-type bug, one major differentiating symptom says it wasn’t- blistering. My ex got blisters on her eardrums (OW!!!), he got it on his tongue, I got it on the inside of my mouth. Because WA. state has confirmed cases of EV68/EVD68, the unique symptom of blistering and the incubation period- that’s what we believe we wound up with. We should have it confirmed one way or the other soon as my daughter (who was initially away while we were sick at first) is on her way to the ER due to going from a simple cough to hacking and coughing up blood within ~4 hrs. of onset of symptoms. She’ll be tested for EV68 AND TB. She’s had her inoculations for TB, but that doesn’t cover MRTB. In the past (about 5 yrs. ago) she had mild asthma, which might make her predisposed to be more susceptible for either of those.

      You know, for YEARS, if not decades, I’ve been crying from the rooftops that wetbacks are coming here spreading their pestilence, and everybody just wrote me off as a racist. Now we have a resurgence of a disease that had been all but exterminated in the country for the last ~50 yrs. (TB) and also bugs which were previously extremely rare are now spreading like wildfire (EV68). Sometimes- it SUCKS to be proven right.

      If the gov wanted a new revenue stream- all they’d have to do is sell tags for wetbacks. The coffers would overflow, they’d either get killed or go back to where they belong, we’d be wealthier AND healthier. Ok- I might not be wealthier- all my “disposable” income would go towards buying wetback tags and more ammo.

      After living in Central America for ~5 years imbedded in their “society”, my takeaway regarding these creatures (can’t come to call them people- they’re wired too differently than we are) is EEEWWWWW!!!I can understand why the Army trained us to kill “Little Brown People”. Me…pissed? Nah- just alittle “annoyed”…you wouldn’t want to know how I feel when I’m REALLY pissed.

      • Merree says:

        Actually, the blisters in the mouth sound like Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease. Did you have a rash on your hands (the palms) and the soles of your feet? The rash isn’t always very noticeable but the blisters are very common. It is a virus, but a Coxsackie A virus and not the Enterovirus. I have not heard of anyone with the Enterovirus getting blisters (but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen).

        • CWinOR says:

          Merree- STFU. you OBVIOUSLY need to research EV68 more. Your “help” isn’t wanted or needed.

          • Joe Biden says:

            CWinOR

            What’s up YOUR ass? Oh, your ex’s (and roomate) boyfriend’s schlong.

            • CWinOR says:

              @Joe- WOW! You really set the “I.Q Bar” high for yourself with that one! WHOOOWEEE! Pretty sure you broke out of your “I.Q Handicap” range with THAT one! Just remember- first-aid for your brain cell should be I.C.E (Ice, Compression, Elevation). Give it 6-8 weeks before that brain cell has healed fully before you try using it again. Shouldn’t be hard for you. If you can still breath after 4-6 minutes, you don’t have enough compression on that brain cell. Tighten ‘er up!

          • passinwiththewind says:

            I am right with you, CWinOR,

            Back in `99 we had a surge of Mexican imigrants come into our county. Some were illegals and thru the legals, they learned how to work the system. One corrupt white woman that did tax filing for them at her home, was also working the system for them and providing false ( made to look legal) green cards and such.

            Anyways, a few years later, I came down with a severe virus/head cold/sinus infection. I got thru the worst of the cold symptoms but my neck, not my throat, began screaming with pain, which transferred into my head and caused excrutiating head aches. After a few days of this, I went to the doctor and was given a precsrip of anti-biotics. Week later, no improvement. Went back, & got round of Z-pak antibiotics. Week later, no change, and got another round of prescrip. Dr. was out of answers and treatments. Long story, i suffered for months until my own immune system, along with huge doses of vitamin C, finally, got the best of it.

            About a year later, i ran into a friend of mine that i hadn’t seen in a couple years. He had just gotten over a painful sickness and had been suffering from some of the same symptoms that I had a year earlier.
            His wife had been eating lunch at a new, family run, Mexican restaraunt in town almost everyday for weeks and came down with flu-like symptoms. he contracted it from her. Coincidentally, the symptoms were just like what i had. They had went to their family doctor, and each had gone thru three rounds of the Z-pak antibiotics with no help wharsoever. He said they were miserable for months.

            Until; his wife went to her Gyno Dr for her regular checkup. After the Dr, actually the PA, saw how sickly she was, she/PA stated that it was strange because his wife had always been the picture of perfect health, and could not believe her regular Dr had not been trying to do anything else to fix the problem, which was both their problems.

            Next day, Gyno/PA calls her at work and says all tests on female parts check out, but asked if she could come by office for a few minutes. Later, at Gyno’s office, PA explained that she had dug into her medical journals and found what she thought was the problem of her sickness which was the flu-like symptoms accompanied by severe headaches and usually centered around the neck/throat area.

            Turns out that the infection is of a viral nature at onset, and early stages it is passed by human contact, and is only common among Central and South Americans, including “Mexicans”. Also, at the time, there was only one known antibiotic that had any affect against it. The series of the treatments was rather expensive. The PA wrote prescrips for both of them. It finally cured them both.

            My friend was pissed. He said, ” those friggin wetbacks are gonna kill us all. Here them sob’s, bringing in their diseases have cost us a lot of time and money and our insurance, over a thousand dollars.”

            Well, i don’t think too many folks have heard of these ordeals, but believe me, it really happened and I know what and whom, caused it. Just think of the folks that have come down with this same type sickness, or similar ones, and never knew what it was, or where it came from, and had to suffer for months as i did, because it was “un-common” and virtually “un-known” by the medical establishment.

            Damn mexicans.

            • I live 1 hour out of Los Angeles, but I am stuck working in LA. In my line of work (state LEO) I go to most of the worst areas in LA, South Central, Rampart etc. There are massive amount of illegals from Mexico and seems like mostly Central America. As I must enter their homes, I have discovered that these are the most filthy, disgusting people. Homes are filthy and they don’t seem to care. I am an American of Mexican descent by the way, if it matters.
              Many of the children of these illegals are gang members, and they are all working the system. Seems like all you see are pregnant women pushing strollers. Got to see it to believe it. My wife laughs at me when I tell her about it, but it’s all true.

              • Mike in Va says:

                So sad that it has come to this. Thank you for doing your very difficult and dangerous job.

              • Smokey says:

                A local school bus here picks up the kids at an apartment building a mile away from my house. Every morning, exactly 4 Caucasian kids get on the bus, and as many as 23 Mexican kids. This is at the last stop before they unload at the school.

                Bottom line is, we have an entire school that is in service just because of the illegals and their kids. Staff, teachers, maintenance people, utilities, building upkeep, busses, drivers, computers, pensions, and all the rest, just to provide for illegals. They weren’t here 15 years ago, my stepkids attended the same school, there were very few Mexican kids.

                Four city blocks near the school have turned into Tortilla Flats, ran the citizens right out once they came in.

              • CWinOR says:

                @JerryF- Being as you (like I) have a different insight into the inner-workings of Latinos (as in directly from Mexico and Central America) please look at some of my posts above on this subject- and then try to tell me I’m wrong in my summation. Bear-in-mind…I was embedded in their “culture”…you may not have been. But no doubt you’ve seen enough ( I thought I’d seen enough growing up in Inglewood/Lennox). I didn’t get the full picture…until I lived with them…in their own homes. And what I saw/experienced was revolting. And what I lived in was the household of a “normal” Honduran “family”. These people here have NO idea what’s coming their way!

          • Merree says:

            CWinOR
            Thanks for the laugh.

            I have been watching the Enterovirus because the outbreak started near where I practice. I have been watching similar viruses too. I am writing a guide to them for a local medical clinic.

            My friend told me to ask you where you got your medical degree but I think that’s rude so I’ll just laugh.

        • CWinOR says:

          and if any of us had a rash or blisters on our hands or feet- do you NOT think I’d mention this? You are working VERY hard to downplay this whole thing…WHY? WHO signs your paychecks? go back under that guv-built bridge that you came from.

          • the renegade braveheart says:

            CWinOR, as I understand it, Merree is a doctor who really seems to know her business and I for one enjoy her posts. Plus I doubt very seriously if she gets any GOVT. paycheck.

            • CWinOR says:

              Thanks for the “reality check” RB. IMHO- the jury is still out. I don’t appreciate on the one hand having a medical opinion from someone that I know zero about foisted on me when it wasn’t even asked for- especially after having already been to the E.R and having dealt with people who were ostensibly “medical experts” themselves reacting so strongly (all masked up and very alert/wary) to my daughter. Ironically, most “Doctors” will out and out tell you over the phone- “COME IN- we won’t diagnose you over the phone”…and yet Merree was all too willing to diagnose- OVER THE INTERNET. And all too willing to try to say it was HFM as opposed to EV68 (when ALL documentation on this bug says blistering of the mouth (and not hands/feet) is a HALLMARK of this disease. Viewed from all angles and we might both come to different conclusions. But for me personally- it APPEARS as though Merree is simply trying to sew disinfo. Could I be wrong? Of course- wouldn’t be the first time…or last. How about you? Ever been wrong?

          • CWinOR says:

            Well- I can take a hint. fuck all y’all. You want to thumb me down when I take offense to an obvious troll with obviously ZERO actual knowledge or even research on the subject essentially calls me an idjut..when I’m LIVING THROUGH IT throws out some OBVIOUS BULLSHIT MISINFORMATION- Then FUCK YOU ALL. Currently we are waiting for the results for results on labs for my Daughter that among other places have been sent directly to the CDC. Really think the Doctors would’ve done that for HFM Merree? My Daughter SCARED THE SHIT out of the whole ER staff. EVERY ONE of them came into her room masked. Try telling me that’s NORMAL and you’re a fucking retard. If you are too STUPID to be aware that EV68 has been CONFIRMED in at least 20-22 states, then you too deserve to get it.

            This site has OBVIOUSLY been taken over by trolls over the last several months (and I’m not even REMOTELY alone in this observation). Congrats- I’m DONE here. Posting and visiting.

            • old nam vet says:

              Pride is a terrible thing. It can destroy a person and shape opinions. Pride nearly got me killed in Nam because I thought I was bullet-proof once I got into the bush. I was very lucky, never got shot or stepped on a snake.Why did I even bring this up? It’s all about pride, it prevents communication. I can’t be wounded by someone on a keyboard miles away so knock yourselves out trolls…Cwino – see you on the other side of this conflict…

              • old nam vet says:

                this opinion does state I take cwin’s or anyone’s side only that pride destroys. chill out…

              • Ghost Rider says:

                CWinOr;
                I normally look for and agree with most of your posts, but IMHO I think you a out of line with your attacks on Merree. She has consistently posted helpful and factual information over the past couple of years.

                She only stated that it could be something else and then further qualified it by saying she could be wrong.

                I think you should reconsider your stance on leaving this community site.

                just my .02

                GR

            • buttcrackofdoom says:

              cwinor…hope you reconsider…i have heard you say many important things on this website, you’ve been a valuable contributor. hope you don’t leave….sometimes you just need to be silent, even when you KNOW you’re right.

          • Merree says:

            The rash on the hands or feet is not blister type rash. It is usually very subtle red or pinkish spots. In my experience many patients with Hand/Foot/Mouth do not develop the rash or it is so faint they do not notice it.

            I am just saying I have seen HFM and Enterovirus. The blisters fit with HFM in my experience because I do not know of any case in our local outbreak that involved Enterovirus. And our local hospital has checked many cases.

            I do not work for the government. If you knew anything about me, you would know that I have separated myself from earning a paycheck from the medical complex. I do act as a consult for local doctors relating to several projects but I am in the process of bugging out entirely.

            As a doctor, I used to see people every day who self diagnosed. If they are correct in their diagnosis, I was happy to try to help them find a good solution to their problem. But there were always the folks that were certain of the facts but those facts didn’t match my experience and knowledge. Such is life. But I never told a single one of them to STFU. Where is your bedside manner, o great expert?

            • jerrytbg says:

              🙂 you go girl!

            • Mike in Va says:

              Meree

              I have always paid attention to your comments. I have found them to be wise and correct. Every one I have ever read. You are a valuable resource to this blog. I want to thank you and tell you how much it is appreciated. You help all when you can. I can tell you really care about people. You are probably a wonderful doctor because of that.

              So screw the idiot and his comments. Some people are just not worth the time.

            • tinker says:

              Merree- I commend you for your talent to be calm when attacked, unlike myself. As a PhD, I ask for your opinion on my EXTREME case of “opticalosis”… you know, that’s where my rectal nerve gets crossed over my optic nerve and I get a shitty outlook on life. Is there a cure besides lead poisoning at close range? Or is the cure simply to ignore the deviate masses…. ?

      • Cara says:

        For those hearing Ebola info: air borne vs aerosolized.
        Airborne is like a cold virus or the flu, each breath out sheds and spreads virus into the air around you. It can be taken into another persons lungs. Depending on air temperature and stillness these can hang in the air for a while.
        Aerosolized is when a person with an upper respiratory infection coughs or sneezes and they spray water droplets out up to 20-25 feet away. Again these can be breathed in by others who are in the water droplet cloud but they are larger droplets so they do not hang in the air very long.

        Ebola Zaire was identified at the start of the outbreak in the first nation. It is a natural virus with at 5-9 day incubation period and kills 73-75%. This short incubation and high kill rate means it tends to not become an epidemic because the people die to quickly to pass it along.
        Ebola Lasa was identified in the next 3 countries. It is not natural. It is a labratory hybrid of Ebola and Lasa Fever. It has a 9-21 day incubation period and kills 43%. Unlike Ebola, Lasa fever produces upper respiratory symptoms like coughing. So does the Ebola/Lasa. These larger droplets can infect if they come in contact with open skin,(open cuts, open rash etc) mucus membranes and of course our lungs. Also this virus will survive for approximately 5 hours on a surface so cough droplets can infect the place they land.
        Generally this means cover coughs, wash hands, avoid crowded places when ill or if others are ill. Do not tough your eyes, nose or mouth with your hands. In the case of Ebola/Lasa here in the US you should also leave shoes and outer clothes in an outer area and not bring them in the house. Antibacterial wash or towels will not help as Ebola/Lasa is a virus. Soap and water for 17 seconds and rinse.
        Eat plenty of fruits and veg and get regular exercise to keep your immune system strong.
        Wash little peoples hands and faces frequently and avoid crowds.
        A virus can only become an epidemic if it has a host. If the nations in Africa had quarantined the households with Ebola, the virus would have died out. So stay home and refuse to be a host. If you must go to work, come home and live in the garage and do not enter the house with the other family members. Shower as soon as you get home and change clothes to clean. It has worked for centuries so it can work now too.

        • Nopittypartyhere says:

          I was reading a post yesterday on a different sight that had CDC info in EboBun ( the patented virus) and Ebola can be spread by fomites for a few days. That is to say it will live on a surface for 2-3 days so can be spread by touching contaminated door knobs, etc. it was info on the global research blog that someone posted on the previous thread.

      • Makati1 says:

        You narrow mindedness and ignorance is showing. Perhaps you need to live in the 3rd world for the rest of your life and get acclimated to reality? It’s coming to the USSA (United Socialist States of America) by the way and soon. 30+% of Americans are living off of the government (taxpayers). That is about to end badly. Wait and see.

        BTW: I am a 14th generation American but I now live in the Philippines. And, I have 70 years of experience. 65 spent in the land of the taxed and the home of the couch potato. You are NOT exceptional and the rest of the world is working to put down the country that claims to be so. I hope you are learning Mexican. You will need it in the future. ^_^

        • Makati1 says:

          I am directing my reply to CWinOR, in case you got lost.

        • CWinOR says:

          @Makati1- you haven’t read too many (if any) of my posts. I’ve spent more than my fare-share in 3rd World countries. Ever been hostage to Guerrillas? Probably not. I was- when I was NINE- 3 guys with full-auto M-16’s and an AK for about 4 hrs. Seen 60+ teachers striking (in the Presidential Square) and see 7-12 get mowed down by government troops right in front of you, while on a quick trip to the grocery store, and get to dodge bullets while carrying groceries? That was just one WEEK. Don’t effin tell me we are not exceptional- you’re WRONG. In fact, in terms of what does/doesn’t happen here- you BAILED on the country. You have no Dog in The Fight or Skin in The Game. You USED TO BE an American. I still am. As for my “roots”- on both sides- we’ve been here since then 1640’s. “Far Enough” for ‘ya?

      • Odrius says:

        Who do you think your talking to on these posts? Calling other people un-human? If anyone is un-human it’s people like you who spiel off their hatred for other people, even going so far as to calling them creatures. You think your cute writing on posts, things like this? Your a sick person to think that way. So the Army trained you to kill little brown people? You are one sick bastard. Get mental help! Don’t think that other people around you, normal law abiding Americans are supporting your thoughts. They are not! Most of us do not think that you are right, and if you got blisters in your mouth, how do we not know that you are some street hooker doing things that you shouldn’t with your filthy mouth? By just looking at your comments, it leads me to believe that you are as filthy as your comments. Maybe that is why you have all manner of sickness around you and on you! Ask God for forgiveness and let Jesus Christ guide your heart, not hate and he will set you free. These posts are for people that are serious about prepping and being helpful, not for making stupid racist comments and adding hatred to things that we already know. Nobody cares that your pissed.

        • CWinOR says:

          @Odrius, (and I PROMISE this’ll be my last post/visit here),
          I couldn’t care less what you think about me personally. But let’s clear a few things up: THE ARMY DOCTRINE (unofficial- but WIDELY espoused by cadre on up the Chain of Command) at the time I was in (early ’80’s post-Vietnam) was “Your job is to either kill Little Brown People or support the killing of Little Brown People- and if you have a problem with this- let me know now”. Your ignorance of that doctrine equates to you never having served (or you would’ve known this). And that’s fine- it doesn’t make you any less of an American for not having served. On your point about me being a racist (call me whatever- I don’t care) tells me you’ve had very little intimate contact with Latinos (either that or you are one, got insulted by my remarks and “failed” to mention that tidbit). I’ve LIVED with them for YEARS under the same roof- how about you? Their guards’ were down and they considered me one of them. Logic would tell you that I’ve gotten a glimpse “behind the curtain” that you (and about 99.9% of America) has NOT gotten. You can call my views racist all you want- they’re REALISTIC based on my having VERY close contact for YEARS with them (I still have ~20 Honduran In-Laws). What I’m saying is that what makes them tick, their MORES, what makes them get up in the morning and what they think about when going to bed is DIFFERENT than ours. If you think all cultures are hard-wired the same that means you have VERY little experience with other cultures. It also means you drank the Multicultural Kool-Aid. Multiculturalism has proven a DISASTER in every country it’s been pushed- including here. Hell- for that matter, desegregation has proven a failure. All that’s happened is post-desegregation, people eventually and NATURALLY gravitated back to living with people of their own kind. As for the Latino culture specifically, try doing some research on some of their dirty “secrets”, such as “Quebrando” (that’s where it’s “socially acceptable”) for a “Father” to take his own Daughters’ virginity (ABHORRENT to us- but “ok” to them- demonstrating their different mores). Think it’s rare/unusual or frowned on? I’m sure you wish it was. Try researching their “Machismo” culture (quebrando is part of that). It’s “normal” down their to have several wifes and families (my “Stepmother”) was one of 21 illegitimate kids, and then their “Dad” had 17 more from his first “wife” (that we KNOW of). In fact- if you only have one “wife”…you just aren’t very macho by their standards. Try looking up some crime stats from the FBI’s own database and compare sex crimes committed by latinos (as a % of prison population) to Caucasians and then tell me I’m wrong. Ironically, the entire concept of trying to mold the behavior into your “Can’t we all just get along”/”Peace Love and Cumbaya” (apparent) world-view is the epitome of ignorance. You simply can’t accept that people raised in totally foreign cultures could POSSIBLY be made up of “stuff” different, and many times at-odds with Americans? THAT, RIGHT THERE, will be the undoing of Americans. Kick off your Birkenstocks, spritz on a fresh coat of patchouli, turn up “We Are The World” and just keep believing how ever you want. But- for those who want a less PC view of just what exactly their in-for with the Wetback Invasion- go here (and make sure to remember this is not unusual there, it will be happening here (look at the articles on the 14 y.o cartel assassin they’re looking for in TX.) and make sure to go through the archives) -BorderlandBeat dot com.Tell me I’m wrong again when piles of body parts of a dozen people are being dumped on a kindergarten playground in your neighborhood.

    • Joe Biden says:

      Another commercial for THIS guy.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        The Ray Rice child abuse came up in court. The little boy was called to testify. The judge asked the little boy “if he wants to live with his father?” The little boy said “NO, My Father beats me. The Judge then asked “If he would rather live with his Mother?” The little boy again responded, “NO My Mother beats me too.” The Judge the n asks the little boy, Well than who would you rather live with? The little boy quickly responds, “Judge I want to go live with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they don’t Beat anybody…

    • Not sure of the wisdom of retreating to an area that is bitterly cold in Winter so maybe So Utah has it’s advantages? I once drove from Portland Or to Phoenix Az late December/early January. Never been so cold!

      Without the large amounts of fuel our society is addicted to you will die. I doubt there will be any “Golden Horde” heading for the hills of Idaho in a total collapse unless they do so in Summer (and come Winter most will become compost!). They’ll all be wanting to go somewhere warmer – even the residents of the freezing cold areas will be heading South if they are poorly prepared. The die off will be catastrophic in Winter.

      Just my thoughts. A well set up retreat in an intensely cold area could be about the safest place to be – but you have to be able to survive (thrive) the worst it can throw at you without any assistance from the grid.

      Aussie

      • Tucker says:

        Aussie is right. Surviving without any help from the electrical grid would mean you’d need to heat your retreat using a wood stove or fireplace.

        That means that you would need to have the physical ability (meaning youth) and the determination to cut massive amounts of firewood, and have the means to haul it from wherever you cut it back to your retreat location. In any SHTF scenario – gasoline will be in very short supply, so that means you’d have to have a wagon and one or two horses to help pull that wagon. Not to mention the need to have several physically fit, strong men to help you cut and load and transport the firewood once you got a wagon full. Which means you would need to also have enough grass or hay or oats stashed away to feed those horses and keep them physically strong and healthy.

        One more thing to consider. In the scenario I just outlined above – if you are concerned about the security and concealment of your secure retreat location – it would not be wise to cut down trees for firewood that are close to, or near where your retreat is located. If anyone stumbles upon an area that has clearly been used for firewood collection – that is a big clue that could lead a predatory enemy right to your ‘secure’ retreat location. This means that you would need to travel considerable distances away from your retreat to harvest firewood and then make an effort to not leave an easily marked trail on the way back.

        These firewood harvesting trips could require you to be away from your retreat for several days at a time – and this would render your retreat and whoever stayed behind vulnerable to attack during your absence.

        By the way. Does anyone have any idea of how someone could accurately estimate how much firewood would be needed to get through an entire winter? I’m sure it would be an enormous amount, and this amount would be multiplied by each family residence that would require heating. Ditto for the livestock – you would not want to risk having your horses freeze to death during the winter, so I suppose you would have to use some firewood to keep the barns above freezing.

        Considering all these factors certainly gives me a new found respect and admiration for my White European ancestors who struck out on the frontier long before the invention of electricity and who somehow managed to survive in the harshest imaginable conditions.

        • Hi Tucker

          Wood use depends on location. Where I live in Aussie we are just coming out of a normal cold Winter. I heat my house – about 1600 sq/ft with wood only as I refuse to pay the utility company a heap of money for natural gas (equivalent of your propane). Our climate is quite cold in Winter down to as low as 20 overnight (but generally 25-28) and mid 50’s during the day. We don’t measure wood by the cord any more but by the metric ton – 1,000 kilograms neat or 2,200 pounds approx. Because I cut my own wood from my retreat – almost 5,000ft and a lot colder than home in Winter – I have an unending supply but at home I use about 5 tons, maybe a little bit more with no attempt to conserve any as I like a warm house.

          In a real SHTF situation I could get by with half that, probably even a bit less as you just need to make it liveable – but in a SHTF situation I wont be here anyway!!

          I believe my climate would be about the equivalent of the area described in this post – the lower elevations in So Utah or Nth Arizona. Hope this helps?

          Another thing to consider – in cold climates your calorie intake must be higher just to maintain body heat. Throw a lot of added work/exercise into the mix and keeping warm is even more important. When I was a commercial diver many years ago my food intake was enormous – combine the cold water with vigorous exercise even for just a few hours a day and you can really sock away the grub! I believe active Navy divers are on about 50% more calories than regular personnel for that very reason.

          Aussie

        • Anonymous says:

          @ tucker
          Have a neighbor that heats his farmhouse with wood entirely. This past winter he used 20 cords of wood. That’s west central ohio. That may give you some idea. We had an extremely cold winter.

          • Mike in Va says:

            I forgot to add one other important fact to my post to Aussie.

            There are like 6 organizations that the government set up nationwide for power companies to report too. They did this after a major blackout in the north east in the early two thousands. They call and tell us how much power to produce. The organization that my company and several others are a part of supplies power for Virginia and most of the north east. During the polar vortex last year we were 500 megawatts from having rolling blackouts. That is a fact. It was verified to me by one of our vice presidents. If one large unit had tripped then rolling blackouts would have started.

            They have converted all these coal plants to gas. Mine was one of them. During the winter that is a big problem. People get priority for gas because it is heating there homes. There is not enough pipeline space for gas. It is like an interstate. You cannot get but so many cars on the interstate and a pipeline can only get so much gas in it. Some units could not run because they could not buy gas at any price.

            They are continuing the war on coal. More coal plants are shutting down all over the country. I don’t understand what the government is thinking about this. But who the hell knows what they are thinking anyway.

            If we have a bitterly cold stretch this winter you all should be prepared for power outages. Also prepare for huge electrical bills. It may not be the end of the world as we no it but it sure could be very uncomfortable and expensive for many.

            I hope this helps someone on here. That is always my goal.

        • Smokey says:

          Used to heat a 6-room uninsulated house with single-pane windows in a narrow shady valley with wood heat, I used 5 cords in a year, barely. That was with the big Fisher stove, wished I still had it.

          • I run about 5 to 6
            also it helps to have an efficient wood burning unit , not the old school ones that waste more heat than they make

            also good hard woods that are cured properly , no pine or soft woods.

        • buttcrackofdoom says:

          thanks tucker for putting a lot of thought into that post. another thing to think about is how new/how much insulation has the home been built with….one more thing…this seems to say if you live in cold climate, you better be considering living in larger homes with more than one family living in it, since heat will be such an important need in colder climes.

      • Mike in Va says:

        Aussie

        I work as a supervisor at two different power stations now. Everyone on here should consider what would happen if there is an Ebola outbreak. Will I go to work to keep the lights on if there is a risk of giving Ebola to my family members. If anything like this were to happen I believe the power will go out because everyone will stay home.

        Just a thought for all on here.

        • Mike – spot on! Lots of key people in key industries will “get sick” or simply not turn up if something like Ebola gets loose. Wont take a massive number either, just a few will scare witless the general population, then watch our orderly society start to unravel.

          Would I go to work if there was a real chance Ebola was getting a foothold in my country? No way – I am outta here!

          The ONLY way to safeguard yourself/your family is isolation.

          Aussie

    • Stan522 says:

      No place will be safe forever in the event of a total collapse… Eventually, “they” will come for you….

  2. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    When looking for a remote place to Bugout to. Find a location more than a full gas tank away from any major city and more than a days drive from these mass population centers. And why you should too, like I do, have 30 extras gallons of gas stored to take with me when I bug out more than a gas tank away. You do not want to battle at the end of the road with unprepared hordes of zombies and deserted cars that run out of gas.

  3. PO'd Patriot says:

    “I been in the right place but it must have been the wrong time,”
    “I’d said the right thing but I musta used the wrong line,”
    “I been in the right trip, but I musta used the wrong car,”
    “My head was in a bad place, and I’m wondering what it’s good for”……
    – Dr. John

    https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmQvRWVFb_o.SBNpnX57zaWbvZx4?fr=yfp-t-307-s&toggle=1&fp=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=i%20was%20in%20the%20right%20place%20but%20it%20must%20have%20been%20the%20wrong%20time

  4. Burt Gummer says:

    My family recently vacationed in this area and I can attest to its beauty and relative seclusion.

    Get an atv or razor tho for exploring, it’s amazing how much territory you can cover with one!

    Job market permitting, my family will be making the move to southern Utah soon

    • On the Path says:

      Yes, secluded and you can get lost, for better or worse. Rugged off the beaten path. So. Utah is one of my top favorites.

      O/T – did I miss something with BI? Haven’t seen him lately.

      Keep watching, it feels like a convergence of events is close.

      • anon says:

        I just asked myself the same question yesterday, On the Path. Where is BI? He’s the one who gave such insightful specifics on global earthquakes.

        • eppe says:

          BI has gone AWOL, probably got tired of the red thumbers and the readers who cannot look at someone who gives real info about topics that really mean something….
          I miss him and SmokinOkie, sometimes I think of giving up posting here too….

          • Canada Canuk says:

            @eppe: I was wondering the same thing about BI, but wondering if maybe he just went on a holiday or cruise or maybe not feeling well???

            Remember, we did lose ‘a voice from beyond’ (J)…but looks like all is well now, just communications problems….. Surely, BI will come back our ‘family’…..and eppe,we would all miss your ‘humor’…. you must stay with us! Take care, CC.

            • eppe says:

              Thanks CC, I often wonder if the NSA gets a laugh on the jokes. I want to thank Mac for having a place to discuss, vent, and joke on the issues he posts. We need to not bash each other on our views on things. I have always said ‘Never discuss politics or religion at a family get-to-gether, since we are all different, and we all have different ideas on both…
              But we all need laughter, it is the one thing we all can relate to in one way or another….
              With that said, I hope everyone could get together and fix this problem with this forked up government we have in the once great USA….

              • the renegade braveheart says:

                Eppe, it’s possible that BI went dark just like JOG. I miss them both. I’m hoping one and/or he other will eventually return.

              • Warchild Dammit! says:

                I hope Jeep is still on the mend and reading the forum and saying to himself”What a bunch of idiots!” and just not bothering to post.

              • Mike in Va says:

                BI

                My bet is he is just taking a break. I did. Sometimes you just get tired of all the depressing news. I kept track of things but just did not feel like posting. I miss him too. Hopefully we all get to read his post again soon.

              • Ghost Rider says:

                I’m actually thinking that BI went with JOG’s group. I know from previous posts that they communicated outside of this forum. And maybe BI figured the time was right. I haven’t see MayBeSo post in a week or so. He might be able to provide some insight to my theory.

                GR

          • lastmanstanding says:

            We’ll all be going dark soon…most of us have the scoop on what is going on.

            One thing that hasn’t been mention yet is that Utah is the Mormon stronghold. If you think for one minute that they will let you into the loop your an idiot. PM’s recognized as money. Big govt spy center about to be online. Western hq for irs. They are loyal to their own and fuck you.

            They are in bed with the zog. Their G5 has been seen in Tel Aviv…number of occasions. They are cutting their own deal. They are controlling the food supply in my neck of the woods. Zog controls the funds, momo’s the food. Start looking hard at wtf is going on in your community.

            You or them, who’s it gonna be?

            • the renegade braveheart says:

              Lastmanstanding, I’ll eventually be going dark with my family in north GA. My family ain’t nothing nice when someone gets on their bad side.

            • sixpack says:

              “You or them, who’s it gonna be?”

              Isn’t THAT the philosophy of pretty much this entire site? I’ve sat and watched since 2011, as most of the people here bragged about all of their high-end preps, spewed profuse hatred for the poor, blacks, browns, gays, govt, Russians, hippies, zombies, pretty much EVERY OTHER GROUP BUT THEMSELVES.

              The standard reaction has always been to shoot anyone down who seeks their help. Immediately and without remorse. After all — IT’S ALWAYS YOU AGAINST THE HORDE. Right? And you must protect YOUR assets from the horde at all costs, because YOUR life is the most important life on the planet.

              People here shamelessly talk about gunning down innocent people, sometimes even children, for nothing more than walking up your driveway in search of food or water. Of course, a hungry man stealing a few ears of corn from the corner of your field is a capital offense too, and “those people” had better not even look at YOUR stream, well or pond, even if they’re dying of thirst…

              You act as if you live in Vietnam in the 70’s. “Charley’s in the light…huh?” In Montana? Or Illinois? Or Texas?

              LET THEM ALL DIE AND GOD WILL SORT THEM OUT.

              But NOW you have the unmitigated gall, to rank on Mormons for ALLEGEDLY having THE EXACT SAME ATTITUDE YOU ALL BRAG ABOUT?

              Many times I’ve seen various people on here say that they’d try to help people if they could — YOU RED THUMBED THEM INTO OBLIVION. You raked them, as if they had spoken some sacrilegious mantra, how dare anyone suggest that “shoot, shovel and shut up” wasn’t ALWAYS the best response to ANY situation.

              HYPOCRITES all. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

              I see why SO MANY of the people (or at least their screen names) have disappeared from this hateful web site. They probably get tired of the constant hatred towards virtually EVERYONE BUT YOURSELVES. Everyone who can’t afford an arsenal and a second BOL. Everyone who is different from you in looks, thought or deed.

              Many of you are just closet elitists, masquerading as preppers. You are too small to swim with the big fish, so you create your own little pond, where you are the big fish. That way you can still feel superior to, well, somebody.

              Keep on bragging and nagging…soon you’ll get your wish. You’ll be here ALL BY YOURSELF.

              • Any Mouse says:

                Love it sixpack. I left for awhile and decided to check back in recently to see what was up and am sorry and surprised to see BI and Smokin gone as well as a few others.

                I spend most of my time on survival boards now. At least there I can have somewhat of a coherent conversation without having to put up with all the hate speech and back biting.

                I do appreciate what Mac has tried to do here but sometimes I think the beast takes on a life of its own. A free exchange of ideas is one thing, saying that everyone who crosses your path is going to die, is quite another.

                The unfortunate long and short of it are many people are going to end up refugees. When the gas runs out and you’ve gone as far as you can by motor vehicle. For most folks this works out to 300 – 450 miles, then your walking with what little you can carry on your back and/or pull in a wagon. If you can hunker down and stay in place until the worst of it is over, great.

                Myself, I have about a week to two weeks worth of supplies in the RV (if we have to move it, if not, until the water runs out, 3 weeks to a month). Staying in place probably won’t be an option for long and I have to cross either 500 miles of desert and 1 major metropolitan area, or 3 major metro areas going straight north to get somewhere that long term survival can be attained with a steady and proven water source.

                I will, in all probability, have to move during the thick of it and the bigger head start I can get, the better, but at some point we’re walking. I’m working on picking up a couple older motorcycles to extend that range to about 600 – 800 miles, but again, walking.

                My biggest fear is being ambushed and shot at just because we stop at a stream to drink or gather some plants for food, because an isolationist and/or hoarder thinks we’re too close.

                Hopefully, we encounter someone like you, who may allow us to rest nearby and maybe trade a few things.

              • lastmanstanding says:

                6, nice rant.

                Just passing info on that I see in my community and how it relates to what I have gleaned via the web and in my ao the last 5 years.

                Just food for thought in a no bullshit manner…sometimes people can’t handle real life reporting.

                You or them…This bs is nothing more than a battle for your soul. God or satan…what’s it gonna be?

                Best to you and the rest…lm out.

                “don’t go down without one helluva fight”

            • Smokey says:

              ‘They are in bed with the zog’

              Mormons and Mossad?

              Another nutbar.

          • MsMerized says:

            Eppe–Don’t leave. I hope SmokinOkie and BI come back. ‘The Regulars’ here are as good as the articles. I read SHTFplan all the time and everyone who contributes to getting the comments up over 150 truly make it worthwhile. Even reading the trolls is fun because I like seeing a good old fashioned STFU lesson every now and then. Stick around; we got nowhere else to go.

            • eppe says:

              Thanks MsM, I have been here for a long time, seem many come and go. I got tired of the bickering between posters, had a few myself, and I am not an angel, been there done that. But everyone loves a good joke, because laughter is the best medicine, and it is the common factor within all of us. Once you have prepped to the max, what else can one do? Mac has done an excellent job of presenting info to us, then we all comment in good or bad ways to each other. I just wish we all could stop slinging sand in each others eyes in one way or another….

              • DaisyK says:

                Don’t leave eppe,

                I have gotten tired of having all my comments “waiting for moderation.” I don’t know why all of a sudden I have to be moderated. I have thought of leaving this site, too, but I would miss you. Hope you stay.

            • hmmmmm says:

              Smokin Okie and BI aren’t here?

          • Anonymous says:

            Eppe, I don’t beg, but I’m asking you not to leave. You have no idea how
            many shitty days you’ve untucked for me with your wisdom, wit and insight.

            • John W. says:

              If you were adrift in a life boat and things looking pretty grim eppe would be one of the people you would want to have there. At least you might die laughing.

            • sixpack says:

              There are some wonderful people on here. They contribute without bragging on themselves and foisting big, steamy piles of hate on everybody.

              Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like a lot of things, BUT I DON’T HATE ANY PARTICULAR GROUP, with only one exception — I do want to see the NWO destroyed. Other than that, everyone, even those I disagree with, deserve to live.

              I thought about it and have made up my mind.

              When it comes to helping others (if it comes to that), I’ve decided to double my rice and put those bullion packets to good use. A handful of rice and a couple of seasoning packets seems like a small price to pay, and if that keeps someone alive a little while longer, then I’ve done a good deed and it’s in God’s hands from there.

              I am mentally prepared to protect myself with every ounce of my being. I pity the person who mistakes my kindness for weakness or stupidity. But I plan on offering kindness when I can. I would want someone to show me some mercy, or show someone I care about some mercy, so I must be prepared to do the same.

              I believe like the rest of you, that there will be desperate people who will do awful things, and I know that I need to be prepared to defend myself. But if I have to turn into a selfish, hateful demon, I’m not so sure I’m prepared to trade that much of my soul for a few more days of living in hell.

              I guess I’ll draw my line in the sand when I get to the right spot.

              I guess I was ranting. I expected the world in general to beat me over the head and slap me in the face — but I guess I just wasn’t prepared for that kind of treatment, here, in one of the few places where I thought I could safely be myself. One of the only places where I thought I’d be accepted for who I am, not for how much I think like everybody else.

              If one expects to receive tolerance, then one must also be prepared to give it in equal measure…as ye give, so shall ye receive, or something to that affect…

              • lone ozark says:

                sixpack, I’ve been reading posts on this site for two years….your comments here 9/22, brought tears to my eyes. I too am prepared to hole-up in the holler and shoot first, but you are RIGHT, there are gonna be folks out there just like us trying to survive, on the move, desperate and the last thing we need to do is ‘shoot first, ask questions later’. Your post really made me and I’m sure others, stop and think about the humanity in this soon to be ‘dog eat dog’ survival scenario we are going to be put in. We are all in this together, as Americans and some how we need to stand together, otherwise divided we will ALL eventually fall. Thank you for reminding me to cook some extra rice!!

    • John W. says:

      Kanab is awesome. Like a Walt Disney movie from the old USA.

    • Burt Gummer says:

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>Get a new moniker.

  5. talon1776 says:

    Well…might as well cower and hide. Seems the poser militia at the border was just that…a bunch of posers thinking their big badass prescence was going to make a difference…well it did..they call it easy intimidation without a shot fired and surrender..those guys ought to just go home and stop playing patriot…they have no idea of what it’s going to take…go back to your cushy complacent lifestyles and tell everyone of your patriotic stories of how you sacrificed all to make a difference…if you can take the snickering. It wasn’t believable anyway.

    Live Free or sadly Die
    Talon1776

  6. Mountain Trekker says:

    Can you imagine what that area would look like if TSHTF like always talked about on this site. Southern Cal and Arizona would flood this area so quick that the rest of us might want to go to California. Trekker Out. Just A Thought!

    • talon1776 says:

      That’s why I’m standing my ground in SoCal… Its going to be a ghost town..good insight trek…

      • Barn Cat says:

        SoCal is the worst place in the country to be in after it hits the fan. Tens of thousands of gang members, cartels just across the border and no water. Sounds like a death trap to me. Sure, it will become a ghost town. After all the thugs go house to house to rob, rape, and murder. Your chance of survival there is about .00000000000000001%.

      • Walt Kowalski says:

        I’m going to Mexico. All the Mexicans are already up here. Shouldn’t be too crowded.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          Ever watch that show. “Locked up Abroad” ?? Yeah nothing like being locked up with MS-13 Gang in a Mexican FEMA Camp for no good reason for years. No trial. Just because you didn’t have enough bribe money.

        • Acid Etch says:

          Don’t let the screen door hit your wrinkled old ass on the way out.

        • Joe Biden says:

          Why isn’t the Mexican olympic team any good?

          All of them that can run, jump, or swim are in the USA.

        • Tucker says:

          If all the hated ‘gringos’ were to go to Mexico, within
          less than 5 years, the mestizo parasites would be breaking back into Mexico and demanding that we give them amnesty and free health care.

          Wherever the White man goes and performs his magic of creating a civilization – the non-whites of this world will be doing everything possible to move into a White civilization.

          As long as we allow them, that is. That’s why when this rapidly decomposing, turd world alien infested dung heap of a once great nation finally collapses – and the USA breaks up, Whites must seize the opportunity to carve out an exclusively White ethnostate where there will be no non-whites and no race treasonous White liberals or equally race treasonous White RINOs.

    • David says:

      I may be totally wrong, but (even amplified in this article) it appears that the hordes of Cal doozies will swoop down on this area like locusts. Its way too open and thus vulnerable. I kinda like my northern Florida hideout.

      • John W. says:

        Very few will make it out of Calif. No way the roads can carry the traffic. Thousands will be on the side of the road out of gas or after being in accidents. There will not be enough gas to get hardly anyone past Vegas which is where most cars traveling from San Diego need to stop for gas or stop because they have run out. Calif. is closed off on three sides and will be a big box where people will die trying to flee. Better to prep and stay at home.

        • talon1776 says:

          Talon1776 recognizes this also John W. To be unnecessarily exposed to that kind of chaos is suicide. Southern California maybe Stalingrad2…anyone who knows the history of that siege, knows that in that rubble, the Russians had the advantage. Many Vasily Zaytsev’s will be all over the LA metro area. All those high rises with concrete walls, indoor parking lots even bullet proof bank buildings make excellent defensive positions. The military trains for urban combat..the big difference is no one is firing back in their training. When that happens..we’ll see how they make out.

          Live Free or Die…Vasily did
          Talon1776

    • Thinker says:

      Hey Mountain Trekker;Do you really think we couldn’t drop the road through the Gorge i n a short time and the cushy liberals would make it 100 yards on foot in they’re flip flops, in the Desert? Now thats Funny!

  7. eppe says:

    Thank goodness he has not mentioned Jawja yet….

    • eppe says:

      Your joke for the day…. Enjoy…

      A mother and her son were flying Southwest Airlines from Kansas to Chicago. The son, who had been looking out the window, turned to his mother and said, “If big dogs have baby dogs and big cats have baby cats, why don’t big planes have baby planes?” The mother, who couldn’t think of an answer, told her son to ask the stewardess. So the boy asked the stewardess, “If big dogs have baby dogs and big cats have baby cats, why don’t big planes have baby planes?” The stewardess asked, “Did your mother tell you to ask me?” The boy said that she had. She then said, “Tell your mother that Southwest always pulls out on time.”

      • eppe says:

        Delta = Don’t even leave the airport….

        • TWA – Travel With Arabs

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            If you all can recall back when the American people had real freedoms when flying, and I am only talking 20+ years ago. You could look in the news paper and buy someone else’s extra airline flight tickets. I bought someone elsed extra ticket as all I needed was a one way ticket up from Florida to Chicago. I called the add met the lady by tge airport and bought her ticket for cash. Then that day I went to the airport, presented my ticket, walked out to the gate unmolested, with my friend sat and talked and then boarded the plane. Unlike today where airlines don’t allow ticket transfers, charge you 80 to make changes to a ticket and gang raped at the gate by the TSA if you want to make your plane flight on time. Folks we don’t have freedoms anymore, we live in Nazi Germany, and I refuse any more to fly unless no other choice

            • Any Mouse says:

              I remember those days.. You could meet at the gate or leave your traveler there and even wave to the plane as it pulled away.

              You could smoke ’em if you had ’em and when I was flying pretty regularly in the late 80’s many times the cockpit door was open and you could visit with the pilots on some flights.

              Meals were included in the ticket price and I swear the seats were bigger.

              Last year my daughter traveled by train from St. Louis to San Antonio. It was refreshing and a bit strange to be able to walk right up to the train and meet her AND not be groped and fondled in the process.

              • SWFL says:

                …a bit strange to be able to walk right up to the train and meet her AND not be groped and fondled in the process.
                .
                .
                .
                – Enjoy the last days of that too. TSA is already moving into train stations, bus stations, and the interstate.

            • Nopittypartyhere says:

              WWII, I plan my grips to MS to check on my dad around weeks that I can drive. 2600+ miles round trip. I’d rather not submit to the fockers at TSA.

            • Smokey says:

              Used to be able to show up at the airport, buy a ticket for cash, check your baggage if any, then wait for the OK to go out and walk across the paved field to your airplane, up the stairs, and take your seat. Bigger airports would have the telescoping corridor that took you right to the door of the plane, but that was just for convenience in loading. No baggage search, carryon search, body search, just buy the ticket and get on the plane. Pocket knife? Get on the plane. Pistol in your purse? Get on the plane. Cockpit was generally open and kids were welcome, along with a parent.

              Most folks dressed up a bit for a plane trip, and were polite company during the trip.

      • Charley Waite says:

        My contribution…..

        Two medical students were walking along the street when they saw an old man
        Walking with his legs spread apart.
        He was stiff-legged and walking slowly.

        One student said to his friend:
        “I’m sure that poor old man has Peltry Syndrome.
        Those people walk just like that.”

        The other student says:
        “No, I don’t think so. The old man surely has Zovitzki Syndrome.
        He walks slowly and his legs are apart, just as we learned in class.”

        Since they couldn’t agree they decided to ask the old man. They approached him
        And one of the students said to him,
        “We’re medical students and couldn’t help
        But notice the way you walk, but we couldn’t agree on the syndrome you might have.
        Could you tell us what it is?”

        The old man said,
        “I’ll tell you, but first you tell me what you two fine medical students think.”
        The first student said, “I think it’s Peltry Syndrome.”

        The old man said, “You thought – but you are wrong.”

        The other student said, “I think you have Zovitzki Syndrome.”

        The old man said, “You thought – but you are wrong.”

        So they asked him, “Well, old timer, what do you have?”

        The old man said,
        “I thought it was GAS – but I was wrong, too!”

      • Slap Happy says:

        Eppe,

        Years ago after work a bunch of us were sitting around having a beer or three when someone mentioned an item in the news: The Ozzies refer to ‘pulling out’ as ‘getting off at Redfern’, apparently the last stop on some railroad down there. Much discussion ensued. Eventually the quite one in the group piped up, ‘Spare the rod, spoil the child’.

        That was 30 years ago. I’m still laughing.

      • Meathead says:

        Captain Cojones was a bloodthirsty pirate who always ordered the first mate to find his favorite red shirt before engaging the enemy during numerous battles at sea. Finally, after one particularly ferocious fight, the first mate asked the captain why he always wore a red shirt during the plundering, swordfights and pillaging, which often resulted in bloodshed and death. The captain replied “If I get wounded in battle, our sailors won’t notice that I’m wounded and will keep fighting against all odds”. The first mate thought about for a moment, and decided that the captain’s idea made a lot of sense.
        One morning, both the captain and the first mate were up in the crow’s nest and realized that their ship was surrounded by a vast armada of warships, and this might be the end for Captain Cojones and his bloodthirsty pirates. The first mate started to climb down the rigging to locate the red shirt in the Captain’s cabin. The Captain called out the first mate “forget about the red shirt, see if you can find my brown pants”…..

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        On SW its first cum first serve as you can choose any seat on the plane.? That joke is so old eppe, you refer to flight attendants aa Stewardess.

        • eppe says:

          Yes sir, Who, but many may not heard it before… I wonder why it took 12 hours for your post to show up just now??? Have you been a ‘bad boy’ like me????

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            Mac Must of been out enjoying his day instead of reading our comments. Oh I’ve been on double secret probation since I got on this site. I just may slip and say some cuss word. Hey Mac, if you read this, how about take me off the 4 hour hour delay comment probation. Thx Mucho. Get that kayak yet?

    • talon1776 says:

      NorEasters will figure that out eppe_…sadly to say

    • eppe says:

      NEW UNIT TO ISIS
      The Pentagon announced today the formation of a new 500-man elite fighting unit called the U.S. REDNECK SPECIAL FORCES (USRSF).
      These North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia, Mississippi, Missouri, Arkansas, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas and Tennessee boys will be dropped into ISIS and have been given
      only the following facts about Terrorists:
      1. The season opened today.
      2. There is no limit.
      3. They taste just like chicken.
      4. They don’t like beer, pickups, country music or Jesus.
      5. They are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the death of Dale Earnhardt.

      This mess in ISIS should be over in about a week.

      • Charley Waite says:

        Bravo. That’s the Eppe I know

        • eppe says:

          CW, It is getting harder to find good jokes to post, with that said, here there are some things that all Georgians should know.

          Coca Cola is ours, and unless you’ve had one in a green six-and-a-half ounce bottle,
          with a slight crust of ice on top, you don’t know what the real thing is.
          And you might want to try pouring about half a pack of salted peanuts into one sometime.

          If it weren’t for a Georgian-Crawford Long of Jefferson ,
          open-heart surgery would hurt like crazy.

          True Georgians say ‘ma’am and sir’
          and call their mothers ‘mama’ and their fathers ‘daddy’.

          They know that y’all is perfectly good English and never means just one person.
          ‘Fixin to’ is perfectly acceptable, too.

          And if y’all don’t like the way we talk, Delta (which is also ours) is ready when you are.

          Long before the Olympics brought the world’s greatest athletes to Atlanta , we gave the world Ty Cobb, Jackie Robinson, Walt Frazier, Luke Appling, Johnny Mize,
          Fran Tarkenton, Bobby Jones, Wyomia Tyus, and Herschel Walker.
          If you don’t know who these people are, you ought to find out before you go to bed tonight.

          Long after the Atlanta Olympics have faded from memory, the greatest tournament in golf will still be played in Augusta every April, with or without Jessie Jackson’s
          and Martha Burke’s approval

          No matter how many times the Braves play in the World Series, nothing will match the excitement of that first one.

          The Stone Mountain carving is lots bigger than the one on Mt. Rushmore
          and the people etched into the side of Stone Mountain deserve the honor.
          It wasn’t just about slavery.

          Atlanta was called ‘the city too busy to hate,’ back in the sixties, because it really was, and we should be proud of that fact.

          In 1864 Sherman burned Atlanta and much of Georgia in his March to the sea.

          Crack cocaine is bringing more harm to Atlanta than Sherman ever dreamed of.

          We don’t grow the most peaches, but we still deserve to be called the ‘ Peach State ‘ because ours are the sweetest.
          That includes the Georgia peaches that don’t grow on trees. We do produce the most peanuts, pecans, and poultry.

          Elvis wasn’t ours, but Otis Redding, James Brown, the Allman Brothers, Johnny Mercer, Joe South , Ray Charles, Bill Anderson, Brenda Lee, Trisha Yearwood and Alan Jackson are.
          So are Sidney Lanier, Joel Chandler Harris, Margaret Mitchell and Alice Walker.
          And I still miss Lewis Grizzard every day.
          Julia Roberts may be Georgia’s prettiest movie star,
          but Holly Hunter is the most talented. Dakota Fanning may one day surpass them both.

          FDR adopted us. His ‘Little White House’ in Warm Springs
          is exactly as it was the day he died there, near the end of World War II.
          Every Georgian needs to visit Warm Springs.

          Roosevelt’s New Deal put Georgians to work and turned an
          entire generation of her people into ‘yellow Dog’ Democrats.

          Georgia once had three governors at the same time.
          Lester Maddox wasn’t one of them, but was elected by the General Assembly without getting a majority of the popular vote.
          He did a good job too, God rest his soul.
          Zell Miller was the best governor I never voted for.

          Gone With the Wind belongs to us. We own it.
          Not only is it by one of our own and is about us, but it’s also one of the great novels
          of all time and an absolute film classic, and we shouldn’t apologize for liking it.

          WSB means ‘Welcome South Brother.’
          She ain’t what she used to be, but she’s not as bad as the AJC has become.

          The Brown Thrasher, the Cherokee Rose, and the Live Oak are our symbols.
          Proud, decent, honest people are our heritage.
          None are as plentiful as they once were, but none are on the endangered list, either.

          The best barbecue in the world is served at Old Hickory House in Tucker, but Open Air in Jackson ain’t far behind.

          The best seafood is at Williams in Savannah and
          the best catfish is at Henderson ‘s in Covington .

          The best sausage is at Stripling’s in Crisp County .

          The best fried chicken in the world is served at my mama’s house.

          Grits is groceries and sugar doesn’t belong in cornbread.

          God intended for iced tea to be served sweet.

          And lastly, Georgia ain’t exactly heaven, but it will do until I get there.

          Sorry that I forgot VA, Jim in Va, it was a paste joke…

          • Mike in Va says:

            You just can’t win eppe. Now I am offended you forgot me. lol

            • Mountain Trekker says:

              eppe, you ain’t gonna believe this. My wife was in the hospital yesterday and there was a therapist that was born and raised in Boston and before moving to Wyoming he said he lived in Jawja for six years. What a combo, I swear he sounded just like a Cajun! Trekker Out. Y’all Come Back Now, Ya Hear!

          • passinwiththewind says:

            Just my two cents on Jaw-ja…..

            As a born and bred, tarheeler; I have enjoyed a many trip to the red clay hills of Georgia. I have a few friends there as well.

            My one and only experience of meeting and shaking hands with a highly regarded political figure came in the mid nineties on a visit to Athens, GA to stay with a friend there.
            I had the pleasure to meet the late, Congressman Robert Stevens Jr., whose great,great uncle was Alexander Stevens the vice president of the Confederacy.
            If the South would have won we would have had it made, and the country would have been better off for it, and……..

            Also, the event that took place in 1910 on Jekyll Island ,GA; may have been prevented.

            That event was the “secret” meeting of seven distinguished characters that set up the initial framework of the “Federal Reserve” banking system, at that time. Paul Warburg was at the meeting and was instrumental in creating the bogus system that would/will eventually lead to the creation of the NWO thru the Joo banksters.

            • eppe says:

              Amen Passin, Jawja was a totally different place in the 60’s & 70’s, was a great place to grow up, not as much now… Way too many transplants from all over the world. And the traffic suuuuuxxxxx….

      • Jim in Va. says:

        eppe,eppe,eppe…. you left out Va. home of Stonewall Jackson,Lee and other notables. The Valley is rebel redneck country!

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Foreplay for a Redneck. “Get in the truck B!tch!!”

        • eppe says:

          You are a “bad man”… But you and I think the same way.
          But my wife would kick my ass if I had said that anytime in our lives. Have you been in moderation hell too, or is there a glitch in the system???

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            We got 5 inches of rain on Friday / Sat here in Florida and its going to rain every day this week. No problem collecting rain water.. Think about that, when choosing a relocation Bug Out Survival location.

    • the renegade braveheart says:

      Eppe, if/when Skousen starts badmouthing GA, I’ll jump on him like stink on shit.

  8. Ah, southern Utah, the beaches, palm trees…actually the best location that’s been brought up in this series thanks.

    Love the desert

    • TPSnodgrass says:

      Yes, southern Utah would be “nice”, IF, the water was halfway decent, which, it isn’t. Water is a HUGE problem in southern and central Utah. If your well isn’t deep, you are SOL.

      • Yet, if one takes SHTF to its extreme taking horse’s a 100 miles north for water is just the business of life.

        Look I live in the far NW, I’ve got every stream marked on my map out to 20K, and the benefit is if I have storage I can collect water all year during rainy season.

        “Life is hard and then you die” when that time comes I’m ready.

      • Meathead says:

        A person could get seriously lost in the Uintah Mts near the border of Utah and Wyoming. Great lakes for trout fishing and plenty of good camp sites. But that area will get snowed in during the winter time. If I remember right, that’s the only mountain range that runs east-west in the Americas. I’ve been on a few hiking trips there in the late summers years ago and there are lots of lakes and waterways. But avoid Salt Lake, Ogden, and the Provo areas. There’s only 1 major highway and that’s highway 15. Practicing Mormons make it a habit of storing food and supplies. This has been part of their lifestyle for over a 100 years. They’ve known for a long time that the Shit will hit the fan at some point in time. If you go down to St. George, Hurricane, Zion’s, etc. you’ll see some fantastic desert, but water could be an issue in those areas. And yes, I believe Skousen is a Mormon.

      • Meathead says:

        “To thick to drink, too thin to plow…..”
        Don’t ask me where that saying came from. Someone made that comment about the water problems in So. Utah. But hey, people. Go see Capitol Reef in October when the leaves turn. It will totally blow your sh*t away. A person could also get lost in Goblin Valley.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      Yeah the desert. 110 Degs during the day and 45 degs during the night. Perfect climate for Snakes.

      Btw/ get a snake bite venom extractor medical kit for your bug out bag.
      Bought mine at ChinaMart. Aka Wallyworld camping dept, not far from the Ammo case. Then open the kit and learn how to use it before an emergency

      • Meathead says:

        I almost stepped on a diamondback rattler when I was rabbit hunting late in the afternoon near Wickenburg, Arizona. The snake was approximately 3 feet long, but I didn’t stick around to measure it. I think I set a record for the standing broad jump. Backwards. Saw a Mojave rattler in a ravine just a few miles away from the Vulture Gold Mine near Wickenburg. Those bastards have a bad bite. And they’re a beige/tan color as opposed to the more common “coontail” rattlers in the area. It is a good idea to carry a snakebite kit in the pack when hiking in the desert. The only snake that bit me was a King Snake that chomped on my little finger when I was walking around with it wrapped around my arm.
        Non poisonous, but it can get infected if not cleaned out right away.

  9. Any Mouse says:

    I can’t imagine the Navajo nation in southeast Utah, Northeast Arizona(bordering the Grand Canyon) being all that welcoming in a SHTF event.

    I wouldn’t necessarily count on the Mormon population in Northern Arizona and Southern Utah either being all that welcoming. There isolated and enclaved for a reason.

    I would like to see the author do an evaluation on the Mogollon Rim area extending up through Showlow, Snowflake, Holbrook and Winslow in Arizona.

    South Western Colorado, just east of the nations would also be a neat article to see.

  10. Anonymous says:

    I like to move to Randy Weaver’s old cabin but I am afraid some half breed sniper to shoot my wife and kids for no reason.

  11. Old Guy says:

    Way back in the 1960,s A old cowboy was riding his horse and came up on a rattle snake. He naturally drew out his six gun and was about to shoot the snake. When the snake spoke to him. The snake said please don’t shoot me. In not really a snake. Im a beautiful female Jeanie and a evil wizard trapped me in this snake body. I you don’t kill me I can grant you three wishes and ill get to return to myself. But you only get three wishes and you cant wish for money & wealth. The cowbot thought a short time. He stated Ok I want a handsome face like rock Hudson. I want a strapping build like Cheyenne Bodie and last I want to be endowed down below like my horse. The Jeanie snake replied Ok You need to let me crawl into your bedroll because ill be naked when I change back. and I wont change and your wishes wont come true until midnite. So the old cowboy returns to the bunkhouse. He lays out his bedroll on the bottom bunk. and climbs up to the top bunk and falls asleep. The next morning he wakes up and looks down into the bottom bunk. Shure enough theres a voltupus womans figure under the blanket. so he hops down and pulls the blanket off. A beautiful stark naked Jeannie. She smiles and stated I haven’t had sex in 2 thousand years. So the cowboy looks in the mirror shure enough he has a handsome face with chisled features. he looks at his chest he has mucles upon his mucles. then he looks between his legs and Exclaims Oh My God!!! I forgot I was riding Nellie!

  12. Old Guy says:

    After observing the old folks at a nursing home. a little girl asked her mother does sitting around with their mouths open help them hear better?

    • PO'd Patriot says:

      The old folks are here visiting and its been quite a time. Maw is about as deaf as a stone. Pap will say something to her and she won’t hear it. He looks at her and comments, “Well it was nice talkin’ to ya.” He told me once that she kept a suppository and her hearing aids on her night stand. One morning during breakfast he commented to her and she lifted her leg and said,”huh?”. Got her hearing aid and suppository crossed. I don’t know what I’m gonna do with them……..

      • eppe says:

        You guys are too much….

        GREAT TRUTHS ABOUT GROWING OLD
        1) Growing up is mandatory; growing old is optional.
        2) Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.
        3) When you fall down, you wonder what else you can do while you’re down there.
        4) You’re getting old when you get the same sensation from a rocking chair that you once got from a roller coaster.
        5) It’s frustrating when you know all the answers but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.
        6) Time may be a great healer, but it’s a lousy beautician.
        7) Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.

        THE FOUR STAGES OF LIFE:
        1) You believe in Santa Claus.
        2) You don’t believe in Santa Claus.
        3) You are Santa Claus.
        4) You look like Santa Claus.

        SUCCESS:
        At age 4 success is not peeing in your pants.
        At age 12 success is having friends.
        At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
        At age 35 success is having money.
        At age 50 success is having money.
        At age 70 success is having a drivers license.
        At age 75 success is having friends.
        At age 80 success is not peeing in your pants.
        Pass this on to someone who could use a laugh.
        Always remember to forget the troubles that pass your way; BUT NEVER forget the blessings that come each day.
        Have a wonderful day with many *smiles*
        Take the time to live!!!
        Life is too short

        • Archivist says:

          An old guy was sitting in a chair in the common room of the nursing home. He started leaning to the right, and the nurse set him up straight. He started leaning to the left, and the nurse again set him up straight.

          His son came in toe visit and asked his father how things were going.

          The father said, “Things are pretty good here, but they won’t let me fart.”

          • eppe says:

            Now that was funny….

            RETARDED GRANDPARENTS
            (this was actually reported by a teacher)
            After Christmas, a teacher asked her young pupils how they spent their holiday away from school. One child wrote the following:
            We always used to spend the holidays with Grandma and Grandpa.
            They used to live in a big brick house but Grandpa got retarded and they moved to Florida . Now they live in a tin box and have rocks painted green to look like grass. They ride around on their bicycles and wear name tags because they don’t know who they are anymore .
            They go to a building called a wrecked center, but they must have got it fixed because it is all okay now, and do exercises there, but they don’t do them very well.
            There is a swimming pool too, but in it, they all jump up and down with hats on. At their gate, there is a doll house with a little old man sitting init. He watches all day so nobody can escape. Sometimes they sneak out.
            They go cruising in their golf carts!
            Nobody there cooks, they just eat out. And, they eat the same thing every night — early birds.
            Some of the people can’t get out past the man in the doll house.The ones who do get out, bring food back to the wrecked centre for pot luck.
            My Grandma says that Grandpa worked all his life to earn his retardment and says I should work hard so I can be retarded someday too.
            When I earn my retardment, I want to be the man in the doll house. Then I will let people out so they can visit their grandchildren.
            PRICELESS….

            • eppe says:

              Since this seems to be comedy day… Enjoy…

              Three guys – a Canadian farmer, Osama bin Laden, and an American engineer – are together one day. They come across a lantern and a genie pops out of it. “I will give each of you one wish, which is three wishes total” says the genie.

              The Canadian says, “I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in Canada.”

              Pooooof! In the blink of the genie’s eye, the land in Canada was forever made fertile for farming.

              Osama bin Ladin was amazed, so he said, “I want a wall around Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran so that no infidels, Jews or Americans can come into our precious state.”

              Pooooof! Again, in the blink of the genie’s eye, there was a huge wall around those countries..

              The American engineer asks, “I am very curious. Please tell me more about this wall”.

              The genie explains, “Well, it’s about 5000 feet high, 500 feet thick and completely surrounds the countries. Nothing can get in or out. It’s virtually impenetrable.”

              The American engineer says, “Fill it with water.”

              Pooooof

              • passinwiththewind says:

                When i was still married, my wife’s vision started getting real bad. She kept her personal care products laid out across the bathroom counter and I couldn’t even find room for my shaving stuff.

                I decided to see how well she paid attention to things, since she never paid any to me, so I switched her tubes of acne cream and hemmoroid cream.

                After a couple months, she still hadn’t switched them back and i noticed her face was getting all wrinkledy and dried up and shrunken looking.
                But the good thing was, she didn’t have zits on her ass, anymore.

            • OldGuy says:

              You know your getting old when you can no longer trust a fart.

              • eppe says:

                Had to do it, sorry about the typeage….

                Q: What do you call a person that doesn’t fart in public? A: a PRIVATE TUTOR.
                Q: What’s the definition of bravery? A: a man with diarrhea chancing a fart!
                Q: Why don’t little girls fart? A: Because they don’t have assholes until they’re married.
                Q: What is the Definition of bravery? A: Someone who has diarrhea and chances a fart.
                Q: What is the sharpest thing in the world? A: A Fart. It goes through your pants and doesn’t even leave a hole.
                Q: What do you get if you eat refried beans and onions? A: Tear Gas.
                Q: What did the maxi-pad say to the fart? A: You are the wind beneath my wings.
                Q: What did the high Priest comment before he flushed the toilet? A: Holy Crap!
                Q: What does Mitt Romney say when he farts? A: Obama did it.
                Q: What do you call “fart” in German? A: Farfrompoopin! Q: What is it called when Queen of England farts? A: A noble gas.
                Q: What does it mean to ‘cupcake’ someone? A: Fart in your hand and put you hand in someone’s face A skeleton was trying to fart in a crowded place. But in the end it couldn’t ‘cos it had no guts. Why fart and waste when you can burp and taste? I fart. Why?……. because it’s the only gas I can afford. If you fart during a game of Twister, you are dead to me. it was Saturday night and the moon was green and around the corner came a fart machine a fart was left a scream was heard and the moon got killed by a flying turd Laugh and the world laughs with you; fart and they’ll stop laughing. While at dinner party, a man farts. Other man says “How dare you fart in front of my wife”. First man says “Sorry, I didn’t realize it was her turn”. Doctor’s Visit Doctor: “What seems to be the problem today?” Patient: “Doc, I’ve got the farts. I mean I fart all the time,” The Doctor nods, “Hmm.” Patient: “My farts do not stink and you can’t hear them. It’s just that I fart all the time. Look, we’ve been talking here for about 10 minutes and I’ve farted five times.” “Hmm,” says the Doctor, as he picks up his pad and writes out a prescription. The patient is thrilled “Thank you Doc. This prescription, will it really clear up my farts?” “No,” sighs the Doctor, “The prescription is to clear your sinuses, it stinks like a fermented diaper in here. Next week I want you back here for a hearing test.” Car Shopping A lady walks into a BMW dealership. She browses around, spots the Top-of-the-line Beemer and walks over to inspect it. As she bends over to feel the fine leather upholstery, she inadvertently breaks Wind. Very embarrassed, she looks around nervously to see if anyone has noticed her little accident and prays that a sales person doesn’t pop up right now. As she turns around, her worst nightmare materializes in the form of a salesman standing right behind her. Cool as a cucumber and displaying complete professionalism, the salesman greets the lady With, “Good day, Madame. How may we help you today?” Very uncomfortably, but hoping that the salesman may just not have been there at the time of her accident, she asks, “Sir, what is the price of this lovely vehicle?” He answers, “Madam, if you farted just touching it, you are going to shit yourself when I tell you the price.” Pilots There was a Mexican, a American and a Japanese pilot. They were taking turns flying over each of ther countries so they were flying over Kapan and the Japanese guy drops an apple on his country and the other two ask why he did that and he said “Because I love my country!” So they went on to Mexico and the Mexican drops an orange on his country so the other two asked why he did that and he said “Because I love my country” So they went on to America and the American drops a bomb on his country so the other two asked him why he did that and he said “Because I hate my country” So they landed in their respective countries and the Japanese guy was walking and he saw a kid crying so he said whats the matter and the kid said an apple fell out of the sky and hit me in the head. Then the Mexican was walking and he saw a kid crying so he asked what happened and the kid said an orange fell out of the sky and hit him in the head. Then the American was walking and he saw a kid laughing and he ask what are you so happy about and he said “I farted and the building behind me exploded” Teachers Lesson The teacher asked little Johnny to use the word ” definitely ” in a sentence. Little Johnny replies, “Teacher, do farts have lumps in them?” The Teacher says, “Of course not Johnny,” To which Johnny replies, “Then I have definitely s**t my pants,”. Restaurant A woman walks into a restaurant and takes a seat. As she bends down to reach into her purse for her wallet, she farts loudly, with the Waiter right behind her. Shocked, she sits back up abruptly, glares at the waiter and shouts “Stop That!” To which the Waiter replies “Sure, Which Way Did It Go?” Fart Dixie A broke dirty Cowboy walks into a bar and says, “Gimme whiskey.” The bartender says, “I’ll have to see your money first.” “I’m broke, but if you give me a bottle of whiskey, I’ll get up on that stage and fart Dixie!” The bartender had never seen someone fart any kind of song, so he agrees. The Cowboy drinks the whole bottle of whiskey, then staggers up on stage and the audience start applauding. Then he drops his pants and the audience start cheering even louder. Then, he proceeds to shit all over the stage, and everyone gets disgusted and leave. The bartender screams, “You said you were gonna fart Dixie! Not shit all over my stage!” And the Cowboy replies, “Hey! Even Frank Sinatra had to clear his throat before he sang!”
                Starbucks A man walks into a Starbucks with his iphone… He suddenly realises he needs to fart. He logs into Itunes and ups the volume thinking ‘the music is loud no one will hear’ So he farts… When he looks around, everyone’s staring at him Then he realises… He was listening to his iphone with headphones. Brothel Man goes to a brothel. The Madam is out of women but, since the guy is Polish she thinks she can get away with a blow up doll and he will never know the difference. Being a bit nervous because she has never tried this one before, The Madam waits outside the door. The Polack comes out in five minutes. “How was it?”, says the Madam. “I don’t know,” says the Polak, “I bit her on the tit and she farted and flew out the window!” Elderly Couple An elderly couple go to church one Sunday. Halfway through the service, the wife leans over and whispers in her husbands ear, “I’ve just let out a silent fart. What do you think I should do?” The husband replies, “Put a new battery in your hearing aid.” Your Mom Your moms so poor, I farted and she said who turned on the heat. Your moms so old, she farts dust. Your mom so fat when she farted in the Gulf of Mexico it caused Hurricane Katrina Farting Pick Up Lines Did you fart? ‘cuz you just blew me away! Mind if I hang out here until its safe back where I farted? Did you fart….Because you are blowing me away! Hey, somebody farted. Let’s get out of here.

              • Anonymous says:

                Gardenia

                What is the definition of a “surprise”??
                A fart with a lump in it!

              • The Old Coach says:

                Young man is visiting his girlfriend at her family’s single-wide in a holler in West Virginia. He’s sitting in a chair, and one of the family dogs is beneath. He farts. Girl’s old man loudly says “Rover!” Young man thinks “whew! He thinks it was the dog!” Another bubble works its’ way out and again the old man says “Rover!” Third time it happens, the old man says “Rover, get the hell over here before he shits on you!”

              • passinwiththewind says:

                True story….

                After the little woman and i first met and became an item, we started staying at each others house occasionally.

                Everyone knows how it goes when you are getting to know each other and it takes a while before you become comfortable with farting around each other.

                i had just gotten to the point of farting in front of her(unless they were bad) and excusing myself. she hadn’t gotten that brave yet and would always get up off the couch or bed and go to the bathroom and do her farts there.

                i was home from a long trip across the country and was sleeping in at her place while she was getting ready for work. I always slept thru anything after one of those trips and she knew i was dead to the world. I wasn’t though, on this particular morning and could hear everything.
                The bathroom, in the master bedroom, is directly in line with my side of the bed, and the sink and mirror is just inside the door. While leaning across the sink to see better in the mirror, as she was putting her makeup on, she began farting.

                It started purr…purr….purrtt….pup purp..purrp…
                ….then blurppp..pup.pupp.powwwuuppp!! It echoed thru the high ceiling in there and out into the bedroom.

                I slightly raised from my pillow and could see her ass but not her face as she never missed a beat with her makeup leaning position and process.

                In a slightly loud voice i said,” I can tell your voice has changed, but your breath still smells the same”!

                She jerked around with a “deer in the headlights look” towards me and immediately shot me the finger and slammed the door.

                It was a good thing I was in the bed, because i was RO LMAO and couldn’t stop. Everytime i tried she would make a “Uh Huh” sound from behind the door and it would get me going again. i was still launghing and crying so hard when she came out, that she went straight out the door to work without speaking a single word.

                At certain parties I tell that story and have the whole crowd laughing there asses off. All except her, and all I hear is that same little “Uh Huh”!

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      True story. When I was Firefighter we had went to a building fire and a few of us were uo on the flat roof above venting the roof. The Fire Chief below yells out. HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS ARE UP THERE? We yelled back down to the Chief, “There are 3 of us up here.” The Chief yells back, “WEll HALF OF YA’S COME DOWN”.

  13. Barn Cat says:

    Most of Utah is very dry. It’s too close to California and Las Vegas. There will be a ton of refugees going there if there’s no EMP or travel restrictions.

    • talon1776 says:

      And there’s lots of water in Utah right?…sounds like SHTF amongst the hoards of refugees.

      • the renegade braveheart says:

        Braveheart will be in north GA where water is no problem at all. I do sympathize with all preppers who live in the West. I hope they’ll have enough water for survival.

      • TPSnodgrass says:

        Actually, NO. There is NOT “lots of water” in Utah. Skousen is just trying to drive up real estate prices. The water in southern Utah, tastes NASTY, and even your Berkey Filter will refuse to try and purify that crap. Southern Utah is a desert, and what isn’t desert, is mountainous terrain,where in winter, you are snowed in. There’s precious little water in the St. George metro area, what water they have comes from the Virgin River, which is muddy all the time, red clay muddy. If the people from southern California or Las Vegas make it that far, they will realize that they are in Hell.

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      Lordy Eppe,that was a “long winded joke!”

      • Skeptic says:

        Eppe;
        What did you pull out of the medicine chest this evening?

        • eppe says:

          Skeptic, don’t do pharms, only plants…. And not much of that lately, gotten too expensive. Just been testing out my new modem-router, and it cranks.
          It is strange that in the last hour, more than 60 comments hit the plan, from 12 hours ago or more….

          • Meathead says:

            Hey, Eppe-still there? Just want you to know that I like your jokes. I got off shift at this place I work at in Oklahoma a few hours ago and I could use some laughs. The place where I work is pretty depressing and stressful. I try to take care of old folks that are bed ridden (nursing home) and one of them looked like they were going to die as I was feeding her. Her eyes glazed over and it looked like she was staring into another dimension. She’s still alive so far. A lot of these people are on Hospice programs.
            It takes something out of a person. And it ain’t easy working with some of the other staff.
            So keep it coming with the jokes…

  14. hammerhead says:

    I think i will stay on my dead end road .
    The cold in the north helps kill viruses.
    Utah was a nice place to visit , but there just aint enough trees for me .

  15. Wheeler road says:

    Southern utah has been in a drought and the state is starting to crack down on water rights. They have been shutting down any water rights that are post 1900. So water is always a problem in the desert.

  16. Warchild Dammit! says:

    NO!NO!NO!I have drawn line in sand,done being pushed around,will die on home turf if that is the decision of the gods.Some family may bail completely,want to live old age peacefully or have a shot at it,wish em the best.I will stay in New England excepting work/playtime,as a yankee though who hates zombies,I could use a plan,any help out there?!

    • Pissed Off Granny says:

      Warchild:

      Curious, where does your family think they are going to bail to that is safe if the shtf here in America.

      Seems to me if shtf here; it is likely the whole world will be lit up.

      • Warchild Dammit! says:

        Have considered a lot of places,a few parts in central/south America/Australia in the outer regions/hell,some island countries that are small.They want and know they need to come in low on the radar money wise and need to be part of the community.There is one country in serious consideration in that they know locals/local language/have a lot of ex pat friends there,tis a bit of a rat mess economy wise at moment but could easily fold in trade wise and if you can live without junk from overseas a fairly self sufficient country resource wise.They do feel that it if not nuke ect. will be a slower monetary burndown and they will probably be dead before if region there hit hard.They do believe fairly soon though this country will head to dictatorship in the open,they are too old and not very trained to be fighters.As I have mentioned in past they understand why I will not leave/perhaps if needed fight ect.,they will leave a few bucks behind to help me dig in a little deeper,they just do not have it in them to fight directly,many don’t but will help as they can on the sly a bit.

    • Night Breaker says:

      War child,
      Some times the best place is to stay where you are you know the lay of the land and the resources available to you. The danger point is the first 30 to 60 days bad water , lack of supplies will cause the most unprepared to become causalities. The best course of action during this time is to stay low, keep a low signature profile no lights , fires or detectable behavior. Observe and be alert avoid contact . Keep a journal of time of day sightings of anyone reconing your neighborhood , keep note of equipment carried , physical description of behavior, time of day and number of Personel . Be your own source of intel for planning . Monitor the Ham Radio Bands for information ( you did get a handheld Ham radio ( Yeasu) and rechargeable eneloop batteries with a solar charger? ( goal zero nomad 7).

      Phase 2 is to keep movement at a minimum with some ventures out undercover of darkness in your neighborhood ( you should be familiar with your area after dark before all this goes down ) do not travel on the roads , use the cover along side of the road ( hand railing , moving parallel inside the tree line) stop at frequent intervals and listen use all your senses ( smell sight and hearing) avoid sky lighting yourself always maintain cover behind you . Make sure your gear is quiet no sound or rattle. This is where NOD’s are a force multiplier.

      Maintain the impression that the home where you are operating out of looks to be already looted
      Throw household items on the front yard , use black spray paint and paint the windows black and the upper window head above it to simulate fire damage from the road at a casual glance you cannot tell this is fake or real damage . allow no,light or cooking smells to exit , the object is to play dead. Even go as far to locate a decomposing animal into brush at the residence.
      Place sandbags 2rows deep,inside under the window sills to create safe area from hostile fire you can also punch a loop hole throught an existing wall with a cover for observation just do not make it look obvious from the outsideand no back lighting! Never fire from a window only from back in the room to,avoid detection keep to the shadows. Have an egress plan if it all goes to hell with at least 3 points of egress. Have a necessary bug out plan with assets and rally points .

      If you end up stumbling into a hostile contact on patrol break contact and move in a direction away from your operational area do not inniate contact let them pass . You are patroling your AO after the SHTF die off , main point is to spot hostile RECON of your area and if you have multiple people with you , set up an assault plan to head off marauders well away from you base of operations .

      Finally attempt to join up with surviving neighbors in your neighborhood ( did you Organise before all this went down ?) only you know who you can trust . Going it alone is not impossible but it is incredibly hard with no guaranteed results , like everything in this life you get out of your preparation what you put into it.

      Resources :
      Radio With solar recharging system
      Bug out bag ( not cheap molle crap from china )
      Water filter ( do not skimp use a Katadyne and tablets )
      Canteen with cup and canteen stove ( boil water)
      Mountain house freeze dried food
      MSS , get the new 4 piece set with bivy .they can be found new for less than $100.00 make sure they are genuine issue Tennier Industries makes them for the miltary.
      Tarp ( Multicam MEST from Bushcraft USA ) ( max velocity thermal,tarp,for Thermal countermeasure )
      Battle rifle .308 ( PTR91, M1A, or .223 Mforgery ( COLT ) And learn to use it
      Side arm .357 or 45 caliber
      Sturdy boots and clothes in subdued colors ( US military soft shell jackets are the cats ass)
      PVS-14 with CYRE nightcap (expensive but useful like in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king )
      The basics Water, shelter, food , defense
      Study , read , get more PT , use common sense

      Nothing easy , easy things are hard .
      The only easy day was yesterday.

      PREPARE , TRAIN , FORM TEAMS

      IMPROVISE ADAPT OVERCOME

      THEY ARE HERE ARE YOU READY?

      Semper Fi 8541

    • Anonymous says:

      You’ve got a friend in SE Mass. if you need help

    • Anonymous says:

      You’ve got a friend in SE Mass. if you need help

  17. Jim in Va. says:

    I’ll stay here in the Appalachians…plenty of water,defensible and good people. We’ll keep the road signs pointed elsewhere.

  18. Satori says:

    this is basically a repost
    but EVERYONE needs to be aware of this information
    so I am posting it AGAIN

    ********** ************* ************** ************

    COMMENTARY: Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola

    http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp…otection-ebola

    “Editor’s Note: Today’s commentary was submitted to CIDRAP by the authors, who are national experts on respiratory protection and infectious disease transmission”

    “The precautionary principle—that any action designed to reduce risk should not await scientific certainty—compels the use of respiratory protection for a pathogen like Ebola virus that has:”

    “We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.1”

    ********* *********** ********* ********

    if healthcare workers are at risk
    then “civilians” are at risk

    this virus has at least an air borne component to it
    it is not as casually caught as the flu is
    as far as we know so far

    this virus has a high R nought #

    treat it accordingly

    First World countries need to devote any and all resources
    to stamping this thing out NOW
    and confining it to Africa

  19. Kulafarmer says:

    In stayin put too, doesnt get much better and that greener grass on the other side o the fence, just an illusion

    • Thinker says:

      Yup Kula;If you’re not all ready @ your BOL and living it? You will bout of time and luck!

    • passinwiththewind says:

      I think most people won’t have any choice but to “stay put”, unless it is on foot,horseback, or ATV’s.

      All this talk of having enough time to move to places that require vehicular movement by a fuel powered engine, is, most likely, not even gonna be feasible.

      Either because the country is in lock-down mode due to Martial Law, or the system wide grid is completely down, or both.

      I don’t see a “controlled collapse” by TPTB giving people time to adjust and migrate, in terms of weeks and months. I see an event that is basically and “overnight” type event that will collapse the economy and the dollar. No ability to make runs on the banks or cash out investments.

      If a person doesn’t have their preps and investments already in place, and within their possession, i believe they will be just plain “shit out of luck”.
      Everyone has to sail their own ship and hedge their bets as to how and when it happens.

      i hope, for the majority’s sake, it doesn’t happen at all; but, we all know it eventually will happen, and it ain’t gonna be short and sweet.

      Half-assed preppers have a few weeks worth of food and water stocked up and put faith in their gov; either local,state or fed, or all three, to bail them out.
      I think they are just living in the dream world of Don Quixote

  20. vtfree2 says:

    Thanks for the advice but, guess I’ll just stick it out here in the middle of nowhere in the Green Mountains. Plenty of water, game, wood and hiding among the billion or so maple trees. Hell, years ago I had to log off 8 cord of fire wood just to make a 100 yard shooting range.

    • eppe says:

      I have a gas line that we do our shoot-a-palooza on, goes for miles, but I only place target 300 yards out max. Makes for some fun times. People say “are you not worried about a gas line?” But it is 5-6 feet deep, so no worries mate…

  21. prepper2morow says:

    If like me you will be staying put (Ohio)then you know the winters are cold. An old warrior used to working out side told me how to keep feet warm if you don’t have 2-300 bucks for boots. Use a pair of the rubber slip on bootie things (not sure what they are called or the brand) not the thin roll up kind, the kind a businessman would use to protect his shoes in the winter, thick rubber but low ankle height. Use these with a pair of old sneakers you will be amazed at how warm feet will stay with these.

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      Prep2,I believe the product you speak of is galoshes,many different styles,used mostly to keep your dress shoes mud/storm protected but can see em being useful,especially ones with a upper ankle style,hell,outer rubber yellow construction boots with any footwear inside a good warm feeling,plus,both items have other uses for day to day,thinking outside box a bit and building with budget in mind tis what will help one survive real tough times.

  22. NITE OWL says:

    How about Katlavan.

    In the Fabula Star System.

    Planet is much like Earth.

    BUT!!!!

    NO TAXES
    NO WARS
    NO FAMINE
    NO DISEASE
    NO ANY OTHER BULL SHIT

    JUST LOVE AND PEACE
    BEAUTIFUL BEACH PROPERTIES OR MOUNTAIN PROPERTY
    YOU CAN ALWAYS GET ALONG WITH YOUR SPOUSE, OR SPOUSES.

    At night you can watch with awww this Solar System

    I AM READY TO GET ON THE LOVE TRAIN

    And NO folks I am not smoking any shit or drinking anything.

  23. Stewpedaso says:

    Why not plan and prepare to inhabit one of the more hostile places on Earth. No one lives there, no one wants to live there, and no one cares if you go there. Thats my plan

  24. Sgt. Dale says:

    The article said to stay fare away from major cities.

    How far is far way?

    I have read that 50 miles is just far enough. I have read that 150 is just far enough I have read that 300 miles is just far enough. How far is far enough?
    If it wasn’t for the Nuke Plant and the national Guard being about 8 miles away I would think that 85 miles that I live away from Shitcago would be OK.

    I would like some input from You guys. Because I know that there are some very smart people here
    Thanks in advance.
    Sgt..

    • The Old Coach says:

      My standard is over one tankful away from the city limits, preferably more than 20 miles from any Interstate, on a back road off a back road off a back road. With only farmers for neighbors.

    • Mike in Va says:

      I honestly think it depends on terrain. Is it hard to traverse, defensible, and what types of transportation systems are close to you? Where are refugees likely to go when they leave the city that you are closest too? What are the people like in your community? Is there water close by? Is there land that you could use for a garden? Do you have wood available for heat and cooking?

      I think every city and area is different. It just depends.

      • passinwiththewind says:

        I agree,

        Too many factors involved to safely say. But i would rather be 150 miles from any large pop. areas than fifty.

        Some of us have to play with the hand we are dealt.
        The big picture is “relative”.

        We are about fifty miles from three large population cities. The smallest city is the closest and it’s population is deceiving.

        Here is why:

        According to the latest census figures it has a “city” population of only about 25,000. However; the “county” population is over 160,000 and closely borders the escape routes away from the nearest major city and it’s Nuclear Power Plant, towards our mountain region.

        Here is the next kicker, their border county, with the Nuclear Plant and major city, has a total metropolis population of over 2.5 million people, and is less than 100 miles away,from us.

        In the event of a total collapse, and death tolls rising weekly in the tens of thousands, a lot of people will head north towards the mountains for clean water and possibly food sources.
        Problem: our area is in direct line with that exodus.

        All areas to the west of the metropolitan areas on the East Coast, will have the same problems with hoardes thinking they will find refuge by heading towards the mountains within the Appalachian Chain.

        What the hoardes will find, is folks that would normally extend a helping hand to any human in need, but are now looking to protect and preserve what little they have and it will be like the civil war all over again.

        City folk won’t be accepted with open arms as before. it won’t be pretty and no amount of LE or local military will be able to control or stop it.

        Plan for the worst and hope for the best. The best is to be left alone.

        • slingshot says:

          PWTW.

          Looking at people today does give me second thoughts. I guess the Hippies were bad enough but all this body piercing and facial tattoos are a bit much for me. Add on the, “down around you ass pants” as a form of expression or fashion. The Home/Family is not what it use to be with grandparents or grown children living in the same domicile. Movement to other places could be a logistical nightmare. The time period of the Bug In, would depend on how much they can stand being in one place and how much of a hell hole it becomes. As the resources and funds dissipate the ability to move lessons. Then only in extreme dire example will people up and move. My concern would be an Ebola outbreak with Martial Law with shoot on site orders. The city to be cut off. Really would they risk more being exposed by removal by force. People may not have the funds or the equipment (4WD trucks, ATV. Motorcycles) to move like on rough dirt roads. Ultimately is how far will people be willing to walk with a pack on their back.

          • passinwiththewind says:

            You know, slingshot,

            I am all about “freedom” and liberties. Along with that, there is also “freedom of expression” and “artistic freedom” by the clause of freedom of speech.

            However; to not understand Gods laws,statutes, and ordinances, or to ignore them is playing with fire.
            It is plainly spoken in the Word, that we are “not” to personally “cut” or make “holes” in our flesh bodies.
            Tats and piercings involve both of those.

            i know many folks follow the mindset of the baby killers (Abortionists) that walk among us…”It is my body so i can do with it as i please”.

            I say wrong. We are God’s and we were created for His pleasure and not that of our own. We are given certain leeway with personal sexual gratifications within man & woman boundaries and limited other pleasures.

            I have never, nor will ever, get a piercing or a tat.

            I have a feeling that there will be a lot of shocked and shameful people that have to stand before God and explain their reasoning for having their bodies covered in tats and piercings.

            Sadly, there are many christians and good decent folks that are ignorant of Gods written word, and follow the masses and the status quo about such things. Sorry ladies, but piercing the ears of little children will fall under God’s Word also. God forbid those that condone and actually pay for tats and piercings, for their children and think there is nothing wrong with it.

            I am not passing judgment, nor am i saying that I am without sin; but, there will come a day when everyone has to account for every deed, bad or good, and the “I didn’t know excuse” won’t work anymore, not with God.

            God has the option of saying to them, that I sent you a letter and it is written there,it is called the Bible; why didn’t you read it and follow my Words?

            Go ahead and thumb this down, God is watching.

            PS Next time you see a man or woman with sleeves and neck tats, think about how that will look when they are 85 years old. Sad!

            • eppe says:

              Passin, do scars count? Just joking, but I got a 18 inch scar from my sternum almost to my penis, had a kidney removed in 95. I have no tats or pierceings, but have contempltated to have a loop at the top of the scar and hook a YKK zipper handle to look like someone could zip me open, or tat a zipper handle there with ‘eppe’ on it. That would mess with people’s mind walking on the beach. My luck someone would come up and yank the zipper off me. Got more scars than 10 men from a life rode hard. But you know what I am saying?????

            • sixpack says:

              They will turn into necklaces and bracelets. You know you’re old when you can hide the tattoo above your breast, by pulling up your pants.

            • Any Mouse says:

              I have tattoos. They are for me, not you, nor anyone else. Let me worry about how they will look in 40 years. Many cultures used tattoos to show rites of passage, but I guess they wouldn’t be welcomed by your god.

              I hope you never get cancer and need radiation treatment, guess what, you get tattooed so that they can align the machine to the proper area. looks like a little cross-hair. I didn’t know that until my father was diagnosed with rectal cancer. Your god will shame him for trying to survive cancer? Yours is truly a cruel and petty god.

              There are so many different versions and translations (and translations of translations)of the bible how are you sure that yours is the correct one?

              • slingshot says:

                Jumping on the Tattoo wagon.

                People who get tats have to be aware of the attention it draws. I have seen people with a good portion of their body covered in various art. Some hidden some not. Some with all sorts of nick knacks. Tramp Stamps on the Ladies.
                I am sure the sun does a lot of damage to them and the real beautiful ones cost money, time and pain. I would like if people who wanted to become walking art would take the time/thought and effort to inscribe a masterpiece on their skin. There are the new 3D prints. Remarkable!

                In Polynesia the tribes tattoed their faces as they become brave warriors. The designs were part of their culture and family. Commanded respect but the drug and gang culture has put a shadow on tattoos.

            • Any Mouse says:

              That’s the difference between people with tattoos and people who don’t. People with tattoos don’t care if you have tattoo’s or not.

          • Warchild Dammit! says:

            Sling,actually the idea of multi generations living together in say 3 family homes ect. not too distant a idea,old folks had kids to help em when needed,kids had trusted grandparents to watch their kids while working,not as much need for old age homes/child care places as there are now,was a big thing in many of the neighborhoods in Boston,my hometown city though grew up on a river about 25 miles from Boston in country.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      Sgt. Please tell me you don’t live in Rockford?

      • sixpack says:

        My family stopped in Rockford, Il for a few weeks in the winter…it SUCKED. My Dad worked in a foundry there. The school SUCKED. The neighborhood SUCKED. I was eternally glad to get back on the road headed west…

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          I lived there (Rockford) for a while. Could not wait to leave, and move to Florida. Same ol same ol BS going on every time I pass through there. I tell my friends that are trapped there, stop bitching about it and move. They have a Gang problem there and shootings like daily. It is a blue collar town and really high property taxes, and real estate that has not appreciated in value in 30 years. That sucks.

    • PO'd Patriot says:

      I’d like to give you a intelligent answer but I really couldn’t say how far is far enough. Sorry.

    • NITE OWL says:

      Sgt.

      A little history.

      BACK IN WW2 WHEN BERLIN FELL.
      Every farm with in 20 miles of any road was looted by German refugees.

      I just say find a good mountain valley at least 2 ranges away from any road and set up camp.

      Make sure you have a good running stream and a good purification set up and of course some good dirt for planting.

      A GOOD SOLAR POWER SYSTEM

      A CROSS BOW FOR……

      A GOOD FIRE ARM OR ARMS FOR…….

      AND WHAT EVERY THINGS YOU FEEL YOU NEED.

      Peace Brother

  25. River Rat says:

    Looks like we have had enough on relocation, we will all relocate to the funny farm. Keep up the good work THANKS for all the humor. I say most here will stay put where they are. Just remember when you go down for the count, make sure it is in a huge pile of brass.

    River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!!
    TSORIITA/GPTDY!!

  26. slingshot says:

    SGT. Dale.

    A few items to consider. How big is your city. How far do people commute back and forth to work. Is your city in decay or is it stable infrastructure. Does it have a river, lake or an ocean or gulf close by. Crime rate. Is a prison nearby. How much military in the area.
    How many interstates traverse the city and where they intersect.

    Next to consider who will leave the city and who is coming to the city. That intersection is where you can get trouble from those coming and going. Choke points like bridges can give you trouble.

    I have a river to my east. Swamp to my south. Agriculture land on my west and commercial to my north. I do have a BOL at 38 miles out.
    Trying to give you an idea that I have options. Being further out may mean more time to get hijacked on the road.

    It is all timing and preparation.

    • Sgt. Dale says:

      Slingshot thanks for the come back.

      I to have a BOL about 30 miles away. If it gets that bad.
      Like I said I have a Nuke plant and Guard ground about 8 miles away.

      Where I’m at I have small creek right next to the house, and the Illinois River about 12 mile to my north. There is a choke point that I can use to my advantage. I also have two small bridges on the east side and west side of the property I live on. You see the person that owns this land lives in Green Bay Wis. and if the SHTF Its mine. There is no family that lives in the area. The location is defendable but I need a small army to do it.

      Now the BOL has water on 3 sides and area to set up Observation Post, and is very defendable. It also has a great areas to put in gardens, food plots.

      The BOL is about 125/130 miles away from the Shitcago area. The other thing is this is were the group my brothers is heading up.

      The only problem is that it is in north central Illinois. The winters have been a BITCH lately. We have plenty of woods in the area for game and fire wood. I really love this house and land, and would hate to leave. I know you have to what you have to do to survive!
      So if I have to leave I have to leave.

      Like I tell Brave Heart. I Hope I get a place in south east or south west Tenn. I hope I have time to get it ready. Better weather and plenty of water, and game. I will have to learn how to manage the ground for a garden but I’m a fast learner.

      Anyway Thanks for your come back and the time you took to respond.

      Sgt.

      • the renegade braveheart says:

        Good evening, Sarge. The family BOL I’m going to is 300 miles from where I live but I have extra gas for that trip just in case. The area where the BOL is located is in some rough terrain but it has a good deep well and a creek that borders on one side of the property. all of my family are concentrated in the same area and the terrain is very defensible. Any invaders will pay dearly to try to occupy north GA. Better weather, plenty of water, timber for firewood, and game. They all have their own gardens since they were all raised on farms so they can grow food in their sleep. They have been hunting, foraging, fishing, etc. in those mountains all of their lives, one generation after the next, so ‘prepper’ is the middle name for every one of them. And there is still more things on survival I can learn from them once I get there when TSHTF. North GA is most likely where I will spend my final days on this earth. Returning to Memphis WON’T be an option for me, period!

      • Acid Etch says:

        Gardening for survival is a tough game. You need to practice it NOW before you need the skill set. Believe me, its tougher than it looks. You’re not just gonna plant shit and get food without a lot of heartache.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Holy Crap Sgt. Byron Nuke plant? Go to this website and check for Radiation emissions. http://Www.radiationetwork.com. map updated every 60 seconds. They have frequent leaks. Do not be located down wind of the Rad fallout.

  27. RICH99 says:

    OMG ……the sky is gonna fall AGAIN !!!

  28. slingshot says:

    SGT. Dale.

    We do have one thing that many others do not have.
    That is experience. Either by Law Enforcement training or Military. Made a lot of mistakes and lived to tell the tale. There are plenty like us that will know when to move or it’s not the right feeling. We see harmful things other will not be able to identify.

    Trust your instincts.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      Slingshot. When SHTF anybody in COPS or Military will have a target on their backs. An unlike both of those organizations, you will not have any back up, coming to help you. Good luck with that plan.

      • slingshot says:

        WWHT

        My point is that I will rely on the training and experience that I have received from the military and for the Sarge to do the same.

        I do not expect any rescue coming for me. If the cops ever say, “You are on your own” that will “Make my day”

        A Plan. I have been planning long before most people were born. There has been 3 million 142 thousand 312 changes to the plan over the years. Hahahaha!

  29. Barracuda says:

    Southern Utah received the most radiation from the Nevada Test Site as the townsfolk stood in awe watching the pretty mushroom clouds rise from the above ground nuclear tests between 1951-1962. Sadly, this area is a cancer hot spot, the most radiactive place you don’t want to be (along with Vegas). Without exception, every person I have ever known who has lived in that area for more than 10 years has either died of cancer, battled cancer, or has some type of serious auto-immune disorder,
    so do your homework before packing that U-Haul.

  30. Iowa says:

    Come Lord Jesus, Come.

  31. River Rat says:

    “I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

    River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!!!
    TSORIITA/GPTDY!!

  32. Warchild Dammit! says:

    Dammit!I almost forgot,tis the 21 of September,Alzheimer’s Day!Tis also end of summer and the fall equinox for those of you paying attention.

  33. Satori says:

    ***** MERS CoV UPDATE *****

    while the worlds attention has been focused on EBOLA
    MERS is still out there

    there has been a rash of new cases lately

    CIDRAP: Saudi Arabia confirms another MERS-CoV case

    http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2014/09/cidrap-saudi-arabia-confirms-another-mers-cov-case.html

  34. aljamo says:

    eppe… the fart jokes were hilarious.

  35. delta says:

    Skousen is a moron. Seeing as how most American are living at or near the poverty level means that most of us live in cities. Which means that most americans dont have the resources to “leave” the cities, and even then the US has gridlocked land so well that the best you’ll be able to do is live 30 miles at most from a small city.

    The most realistic idea is to find a small city (under 10000 people)and then plan to ride out in that location.

  36. DOUG says:

    TROUBLE IS ,WHEN YOU FIND A WARM REMOTE PLACE, YOUR GONNA RUN INTO EVERY OTHER ASSHOLE WHO IS TRYING TO STAY ALIVE..
    I BELIEVE A PLACE WITH A GOOD GROWING SEASON AND A TOLERABLE WINTER IS BEST.. THE HARDER IT IS THE LESS LIKELY YOULL HAVE COMPANY.. EVERYBODY WANTS IT EASY. SO GO WHERE ITS HARD. CANT BE DONE? LOOK AT THE NATIVE AMERICANS IN THE NORTHERN PLAINS AND EASTERN REGIONS.SURVIVAL IS JUST THAT. IT WONT BE EASY… DOWNSIDE OF WARMER REGIONS? THE ANIMAL LIFE(INSECTS TOO).AND DISEASE. LIKE WEST NILE,THAT MOUSE THING, BROWN RECLUSE, BLACK WIDOW,BEES!!!! GAME THAT HAS DISEASE. COLD HAS A WAY OF CLEANING THINGS UP…

    • NITE OWL says:

      YOU ARE SO WISE MUST KNOW THAT DIFFERENT NATIONS HAVE DIFFERENT CONCEPTIONS OF THINGS.

      YOU WILL NOT THEREFORE TAKE IT AMISS IF OUR IDEAS OF THE WHITE MANS KIND OF EDUCATION HAPPENS NOT TO BE THE SAME AS YOURS.

      WE HAVE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE OF IT.

      SEVERAL OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WERE BROUGHT UP IN TO YOUR COLLEGES .

      THEY WERE INSTRUCTED IN ALL YOUR SCIENCE.

      BUT WHEN THEY CAME BACK TO US THEY WERE BAD RUNNERS, IGNORANT OF EVERY MEANS OF LIVING IN THE WOODS.

      UNABLE TO BEAR EITHER COLD OR HUNGER.

      THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO BUILD A CABIN, TAKE DEER, OR KILL THE ENEMY.

      THEY SPOKE OUR LANGUAGE IMPERFECTLY.

      THEY WERE THEREFORE UNFIT TO BE HUNTERS, WARRIORS, OR COUNSELORS, THEY WERE GOOD FOR NOTHING.

      WE ARE , HOWEVER , NOT LESS OBLIGED FOR YOUR KIND OFFER, THOUGH WE DECLINE TO ACCEPTED IT .

      TO SHOW OUR GRATEFULNESS, IF THE GENTLEMEN OF VIRGINIA SHALL SEND US A DOZEN OF THERE SONS, WE WILL TAKE GREAT CARE WITH THEIR EDUCATION , INSTRUCT THEM IN ALL WE KNOW,

      AND MAKE MEN OUT OF THEM ………….

      CANASSATEGO

      TREATY OF LANCASTER

  37. LONER says:

    It’s fairly obvious that these Lee Skousen ads are NOT working to get people to go to his site, other than to see if he is really as ignorant as folks here sense he is.

    So, why bother?? Why not post an article with some MEAT, instead of this pandering to prepper wannabe’s or worried folks with lotsa money??

    Why ignore the comments?? I am thinking it’s just some favor being paid back??

    It’s nice to see commenters blowing off the topic and taking control of the dialog when the article is just trolling for business….

  38. Wolverine says:

    Sunday morning , the most important thing in America is what the NFL is going to do with their players!!!!! Did I over sleep and all the threats of a terrorist action taking place against our country go away???? Good thing I came here, I can tell the Russian troopers some fart jokes. Really….fart jokes, the sad thing is people are so fat and out of shape in this country that they can’t control their Bodley functions. I refuse to go to the stores and watch people laying on a shopping cart gathering more poison , or the auto parts where the guy lays on the counter to tell his story, stand up straight America , let’s make this a team effort and win back this country.

  39. Chris Wardell says:

    This site has just turned into one big fucking ad for Skousen and his ilk recently. Personally, Mac, I’m removing this site from my list of favorites and will not be coming back. Too bad, you originally had a good site, too bad it devolved into this shit.

  40. Pissed Off Granny says:

    Watching Faux News today; climate conference going on at the UN tomorrow. Their climate conference includes population elimination.

    About 150,000 supporters marching in NY today including the head of the UN.

    Patriots cant seem to organize a two car funeral; yet these people can call up thousands; no problem.

    Tomorrow would be a great time for ISIS to pay a visit to the UN.

    • Old Guy says:

      Yes indeed Granny. We can only hope

    • Thinker says:

      POG;That would be cutting off the hand that feeds them and the media that makes the theater.
      There is a March against Global Warming& Geo Engineering Scheduled for the Sept,27 next week.We will have to see if this comes to fruition, if we are not nuked by China and Russia by then? Then Mossad will have there way and their motto “By way of Deception,We shall do War”

      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        True comment, Thinker. The good old USA, last I checked, finances more than 50% of the UN. Therefore, we, the American taxpayer, as usual, is financing our own doom. Dumb asses, aren’t we??

        Will check to see if the MSM covers the “anti” march. My guess it will be just a snippet.

        Speaking of snippets, there is a website called snippets and snappets that has truth posted there.

      • talon1776 says:

        Thinker..these sociopaths don’t care about who gets whacked..even if its there own..they want the propaganda effect to create more us versus them mentality…BTW..I appreciate your comments on earlier post

        • Thinker says:

          Talon; The funny thing is the only power they can create is fear,because they are a bunch gutless wonders! The problem as i see it as “We the People” have the power to change the direction of our future, but most have been dumbed down so long thru media,education, and diet that most won’t bring about the change that is surely needed before its to late!
          I hope everybody is as prepared as they think is possible,as we seem to be running like rats from a snake that quite easily should have its head taken off by now,it would be so much easier than to condone and and believe in the reality that they have created for us and the fate that awaits us all!
          It reminds me of a couple song i used to play back in the day .Helpless (Neil Young) and Knocking on Heavens Door ( Dylan} If we all don’t rise up and get rid of this evil that controls the world, soon! The world as we have known it, will just be a another illusion,that they have created for the slaves! We should have done better and should! “Teach Your Children” Well. (CSNY}
          May we all find Peace in the decisions we make!

  41. PrepperDude says:

    I lived in St. George for 5 years. By warm and safe, it should be understood that on June 18, 2006 when my son was born, it was 118 degrees out. Warn is a understatement. Other than that, I love the place, and will probably end up there again. So much fun!

  42. Noname says:

    MAN, If y’all are the example of the “prepper” community, the human race is doomed. 146 comments, and only one on topic. The rest read like a neo- Nazis letter to Israel, and the ranting’s of a paranoid drug addict. I know that half of you are federal agents trolling, but good G_D! Y’all; The other half could at least TRY to act more mature than a 14 year old smoking weed.

    • sixpack says:

      All of my comments are on topic — MY TOPIC. I suspect it’s the same with everyone else. Whatever topic we’re on, is THE topic. We don’t need no topic nazi.

      • eppe says:

        6 & noname, after prepping for 18 years, what else can be done? I am never on topic, hard to find jokes that match the topic. But people come here to read the comments, and some are excellent, some not so much, but this place gives us a place to discuss, vent and even joke. The prepper community is a wide range of folks, so we all need to be civil with each other, no politics, or religion, and our goal is to make it to the other side intact. Which is going to be a feat in it’s self. Not ragging on anyone, ask any question and you will get a wide range of answers. Just saying, can’t we all get on the same page and eliminate the true problem? Those in power that dictate what is going on now???

    • slingshot says:

      Noname.

      And now you know the rest of the story. Good day.

    • Any Mouse says:

      Ha ha ha, That’s fantastic!

    • Anonymous says:

      12 year old smoking ice

  43. Satori says:

    hmmm
    much ado about nothing
    or something more ominous ?

    a stone inscribed “2014” added to the Georgia Guidestones

    The Georgia Guidestones Have Officially Been Updated with the Year 2014

    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/the-georgia-guidestones-have-officially.html

    put on yer tinfoil hats and discuss !

  44. Warchild Dammit! says:

    Noname,tis simple,change the channel.

  45. Satori says:

    Quote of the Day

    “The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology.”

    Michael Parenti

    it’s funny
    when you talk of propaganda
    most people immediately think of Communist Russia or China
    or some few Americans who know anything of history(and that is
    damn few) might remember East Germany and the STASI

    but Americans are just as much the victims of propaganda
    as any other country
    maybe more so

    listen to the main stream media news
    or any statement by the government

  46. Woogie says:

    A good Stratigic location when shtf and the grid is down, it has to have plenty of water, natural resourses for heat, cooking, and food and water for food production, an out of site place, and a defendable location. One has to see how many people that dessert will support. Even in the pioneer days in the midwest with lush grass, it was 10 acres per horse or cow. What will a dessert give? I see no reason to live in the desert during that time.

  47. DOUG says:

    this was a good site

  48. Overwatch says:

    Eppe, as contentious as things can get, we just can’t have you leaving our little community. You
    probably have no idea how many shitty days you have untucked for me. Your jokes and sage advice have gotten me through many trying times. I am sure everyone here would miss your presence tremendously. All of the regulars here are people whom I’ve come to enjoy. You .Dalr, River Rat, WWTI, granny, KY Mom, and everyone else are great. He’ll, I even read the jerks and lunatics avidly. Losing you would be unthinkable.

    Mac, I love this site. Like a bunch of friends hanging out. Please try and find out about BI when you can. I visit daily. Please keep up the good work.

  49. Overwatch says:

    Damn autocorrect . It should have been unfucked not untucked and Hell not He’ll. Sorry for the language. Old school Army NCO.

  50. southside says:

    Off topic,pls advise. What if one needs to bug out and has pets I have 5 cats. Ca

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      South,tough situation,as you obviously do consider pets family members.Leaving by vehicle and makes sense can take em with you,on foot/hitting the back lands best you can do is leave full bowls of food/water and a way in and out of home,and yes,realize looters may eat the food and even the cats.I feel a lot of tough ?’s will be asked,how about also the old that cannot walk/hell,the list is depressingly endless.I would say the best folks can do is prep for 2&4 footed family members supply wise and read the actual situation.I get angry that we even have to think like this,realize nature can throw us a punch but since many of the situations man made,well,those mercenaries that enforce the insanity will be down by at least one before I “retire”.Enoy/love your friends/family(2&4 footed members as much as you can while to best of ability try and be a bit better prepped for tomorrow.

  51. Iowagal says:

    No relocating for this gal! Im proud to say im good! For all those who arent times a ticking!

  52. when everyone wakes up to the reality that the PAB are wanting as much infighting and race wars, cop hate , hate of all people for what ever reason thats when we win and they lose

    if we keep hating each other instead of who the real problem is ,and doing absolutely nothing about it, we are going to get blind sighted like no ones business

    • Mountain says:

      VRF the powers that be want to make the American citizens sick by any means possible. As Rahm said, never let a good crisis go to waste.

      I’m p’off that we have hundreds of hundreds of children coming down with that virus.

      We have to protect ourselves and be ready for anything.

      I’m not saying I don’t believe in antibiotics, but it has been proven that garlic, oil of oregano and grapefruit seed extract will kill viruses and bacteria. I never had much luck with colloidal silver but I keep it for my husband because it works for him every time.

      I don’t know that I could kill off the worst virus with my natural medicines but I will try. And I have antibiotics on hand if that doesn’t do the trick.

      I’ve had two decades of experience using large amounts of garlic with strep throat. There’s nothing I can’t get rid of without that and oil of oregano. I healed a dental infection completely when my dentist kept writing out scripts for me. He was shocked when I told him, but still didn’t want to believe.

  53. southside says:

    Warchild, thank you so much for your post/advice. Yes,in fact,the cats are part of my family. I won’t bore you or the others about how much peace,happiness,and love I get from them.Even when they leave hairballs around. I’ll stay during SHTF if I cannot bring them with me,move if possible. I owe them that much. Also, to all posters here: at times we fuss,fight,bitch,and complain to and about each other. I’ve done my share. But in the end your all my brothers and sisters. At the end of the day…we need each other. southside standing to.

  54. Mountain says:

    I prefer to live in Montana. I’m very well adapted to freezing temperatures and already know how to handle the seasons. I know where the back roads are, how the moonlight falls on certain parts of the valley and mountain at certain times and can go under cover of darkness. I know the hiding spots, where good hunting is, and where I can hole up if need be. I know where to go to stay warm, and where I can stay cool.

    I like the fact that not many people want to deal with the winter on the high line. I can go out in the afternoon to town and see 20 people or less. I like going to our tiny cafe and sitting down and listening to the ranchers talk. I’ve learned more from than in my 20 years here than anyone else in my life. All you have to do is be quiet and listen to the old men speak because they have wisdom. I’ve made friends with a few, and they have shared fishing spots with me. It takes a long time to gain trust with neighbors but once you do they have your back, and you have theirs.

    • DerrickR says:

      strange. that’s how i feel about fargo. not quite as country as what you describe of montana. we are basically minneapolis’ western most suburb. but after five years in chicago, i am most pleased.

      i like winters here. it pushes the scumbags out of town, or at least indoors.

  55. Jordan says:

    It is normal with an influx of non citizens in any 1st world country to see an increase in rare and older eradicated illnesses, also normal for most practicing MD’s except the really old ones to miss them because they have only seen it in textbooks, from classes they slept through due to clinic rotations.