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Homeland Security Conceals “Secret Plan to Cut Cell Service” During Emergencies

Mac Slavo
January 14th, 2016
Comments (178)


As communications become increasingly important to online life, and political expression, Homeland Security and law enforcement wield powerful new tools to regulate the signal and control the masses, particularly during crises.

Lawsuits by the Electronic Privacy Information Center have hinged around disclosure of a secret plan that gives the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) the ability to cut cell service and black out communications across entire cities, or on specific areas.

How extensively the plan has been developed remains unknown, as legal action so far has failed to declassify the digital tool of mass control.

via Ars Technica:

The Supreme Court is setting aside a petition from the Electronic Privacy Information Center that demanded the Department of Homeland Security release the US government’s secret plan to shutter mobile phone service during disasters.

… ruling that the DHS did not have to divulge the full contents of Standard Operating Procedure 303. That court held that… disclosure would “endanger” public safety.

Under the direction of the so-called National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee, SOP 303 allows for the shutting down of wireless networks “within a localized area, such as a tunnel or bridge, and within an entire metropolitan area.” … Local governments, however, have the power to shutter wireless service regardless of SOP 303.

Like all great emergency powers, this high tech control plan has already been abused. Homeland Security used the kill switch to shut off service to cell phones in order to stifle a San Francisco protest:

The privacy group had demanded the document in 2011 following the shuttering of cell service in the San Francisco Bay Area subway system to quell a protest.

a “unified voluntary process for the orderly shut-down and restoration of wireless services during critical emergencies such as the threat of radio-activated improvised explosive devices.” (Here is a copy of a heavily redacted version (PDF) of the protocol that EPIC’s lawsuit produced.)

Like other non-lethal weapons brought on the scene of post-9/11 crowd control situations, DHS’ kill switch features the patent ability to dial down to a specific location, or broaden the cellular interruption devices to a city-wide area.

These are enormous powers that will be used during crises of all types – and already it poses a danger to the civil rights that expressly protect the right to assemble, give redress of grievances and speak freely – including across cell phone signals.

Interruption and black outs could impose directly on these rights, and be used in the name of prevent riots, terror attacks or shades of martial law during emergency situations.

As Joshua Krause argues at Ready Nutrition, there are alternate ways to communicate that could be effective during an emergency where the government institutes a denial of access attack on the population’s cell service.

At first glace, there is little potential for these devices when the grid goes down… However, don’t be too quick to scoff at the prepping potential of these devices. It’s fairly easy to create a local wifi network (aka ad hoc network) between computers that are within range of each other. This would allow people living on the same street or in the same apartment building to talk to each other, provided they can generate their own electricity. The better solution would be to create a local network with cell phones that isn’t reliant on any infrastructure…

If the grid is down long enough, eventually some enterprising citizens would start to provide courier services. Whether it’s by foot or by bicycle, they will fill an important niche that other items on this list can’t provide, and that is a secure form of communication. If you had to send a message to someone who lives out of the range of your radio or wifi network, and you needed that message to remain a secret, writing that message down and sending someone out to deliver it by hand would be the only way to do it.

It is possible to use wifi and cell phones – even during a grid down scenario – to communicate through mesh networks (using modest amounts of alternate power). Walkie talkies, CB and Ham radio systems will also be important during emergencies, as will old-fashioned courier services using a network of trusted messengers and whatever the quickest form of available transportation is during the situation.

Don’t forget to prepare back-up communications gear in a Faraday cage so that these options will remain viable in an EMP event as well.

Read more:

What Will Be Best Form of Communication If the Grid Goes Down?

How to Use a [BUSTED] Cell Phone to Meet 5 Basic Survival Needs

Cyber Attack May Be To Blame For Deadly Amtrak Crash: “It’s Unclear Whether the Speed Was Increased Manually”

Backdoors… for Everything: “Citizens Should Have No Secrets Gov’t Can’t Access”

Well-Connected Insiders Plead for Action: “An EMP Could Change the Course of Global Civilization By 2030″

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Author: Mac Slavo
Date: January 14th, 2016
Website: www.SHTFplan.com

Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

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  1. PO'd Patriot says:

    Go ‘head and cut her Captain. When you hear the rat-atat-tat from my gat and feel the sting, you’ll know we’ve got reconnected.

  2. Paranoid says:

    My God this will destroy the average 14 year old’s life like TOTALLY People will have to actually drive their cars. It will be the end of the world for all the people in Malls. Bring it on!

    • Paranoid says:

      i wonder if the Gov has any idea what all the stuff they have planned would actually do to the economy of the US? They have become paranoia nuts. They even try half this junk and the economy/taxes just stops and then where are they? Who is John Gault?

      • hammerhead says:

        They cant shut down cell service and have a cashless utopia at the same time , so someone better make up their mind!

        • You can shut down specific parts of the service and not allow voice or text but still allow whatever particular service that you want to use. Its not hard.

        • Kevin2 says:

          I think they’re looking at shutting down specific areas. People exercising their Constitutional Rights outside of the “Free Speech Zone” need to be corralled and brought back into the fenced in pasture. Can’t have any embarrassing video evidence of authoritative brutality so the means of communication and recording is thwarted. The immediate official response is the protestors resorted to violence and it was contained with the absolute minimum use of force in compliance with policy. There is no truth that eight people died and twenty four were wounded.

          We now return you to your regularly scheduled entertainment diversion from reality.

        • Kevin2 says:

          I think they’re looking at shutting down specific areas. People exercising their Constitutional Rights outside of the “Free Speech Zone” need to be corralled and brought back into the fenced in pasture. Can’t have any embarrassing video evidence of authoritative brutality so the means of communication and recording is thwarted. The immediate official response is the protestors resorted to violence and it was contained with the absolute minimum use of force in compliance with policy. There is no truth that eight people died and twenty four were wounded.

          We now return you to your regularly scheduled entertainment diversion from reality.

  3. Semper F, y'all says:

    Two tomatoes cans and a long string.

    For you sophisticated types – One Time Pad and carrier pigeons. It worked in WWI, still does.

    CBs, Ham and short wave. Wow.

    All else fails send runners. If that doesn’t work send 168 grain SPBT at 2,900 fps, they’ll get the message.

    Semper Fi
    f ’em

  4. Southp4w says:

    Buy a gotenna for you and your family. If you are within a few miles you can still communicate.

  5. Sgt. Dale says:

    They are not going to cut the feed. This could mean that they are going to let a Turd use the phones to set off a bomb or two. 1St responders be very careful. They can set off a bomb, and then when yo9u arrive and start working on people they could set off another. There is too much shit going on. WATCH YOUR 6!!!
    Sgt. ,

  6. southside says:

    Just finished reading”One Second After” Most of the panic centered on lack of information,among other things. Government blocks information there will be only rumors left. What a bunch of idiots

  7. smokey says:

    Sorry about your little flash mob protest, guys, but you tried to shut down the entire subway system for the Bay Area.

    Tough titty, little kitty.

    What are we supposed to do, empower your bullshit cause?

    Or as mentioned above, keep the phones working so some muzzie cell can detonate explosives as aid arrives and crowds move?

    • Kevin2 says:


      Its all about trust. You either do or do not or are at least suspect and suspicious. At least five decades, no doubt quite longer, of being far less than forthright, on countless issues, hasn’t endeared the body politic, with a decent IQ, and a tad of observation, to unquestioningly believe anything. That level of trust, even if it existed then, passed into a bygone day on November 22nd 1963.

      As is written, “You reap what you sow”.

    • 15Fixer says:

      Cell phones are NOT the only means of delayed detonation. Any radio control set, an analog watch, a kitchen timer….. anyone with imagination can come up with something. A WW2 trick was a cigarette in a book of matches. Cigarette burned down enough, lit matches, started fire…….

      • smokey says:

        True, but turning off a cell tower for an hour is going to prevent command detonation using cell phones.

        Timers are old hat, now they like to set up a camera and record the activities, and set off the stuff when it’s most effective.

        • Ivannatakehimtothecleaners says:

          Now that its common knowledge that cell service can be cut, bomber have to add cheap two way radios as secondary means of detonation. Timers in case all else fails. For them, the cost of doing business. Cutting cell service connects to desire to stop bombers only in theory. Its aimed squarely at protesters of whatever type the government don’t like at any given moment.

  8. John_Allen says:

    If you’re long enough in the tooth, you remember when every pharmacy, supermarket, and fast food joint had pay telephones. Which worked well enough and afforded users pretty good privacy. Much less convenient, but much more private, than cell phones for everyone.

    It’s probably the march of technology that (almost) everyone has a cell phone. But the spy state was among the first to see their potential for invading our privacy. I haven’t had a cell phone since about 2011. One chance in 25,000 not having one might someday cost me my life. Until then, not having one deprives them of an easy way to spy on me.

    “THEY’RE” going to flip the switch to turn them off? I couldn’t care less. Why do you?

    Hiya Utah Data Center. Your moms give good head, dweebs. How does it feel to be bought and paid for?

  9. Heartless says:

    Hell, cut it now. I don’t use them anyway. And folks, I’m an IT. Ask yourselves, how is it, why is it….. that an IT who earns his living dealing with tech daily and has so for decades doesn’t have a cellphone? Simple. I know what they are, what they do and are capable of doing. And all those who control them.

    Yeah – go right ahead. Time all the addicts see what is like to go cold turkey. Including all who declare themselves preppers. Listen all…….. if you can’t do without, your first impulse is some idiotic excuse why you “need” them….. you’re hooked. That includes “but what if I break down in my car?, I need to stay in contact with my kids/wife/work…. Bull. Odd how people did so darned well until these devices entered our mainstream isn’t it? Or the other way around. Prove to me please how successful this tech has made our society, how more secure we all are, how much more we really know. We are not more successful as a nation or as individuals – argue all you want, that is a fact. We and this country have gone straight down-hill since the arrival of these things. And as for having info at our collective fingertips? What ever happened to people learning, having knowledge within?

    Yep – shut ‘er down ‘Virgil’ she’s a-suckin’ mud.

    • Braveheart1776 says:

      Heartless, I was prepping, stacking, and praying BEFORE I ever had my first computer or cellphone. I survived without them back then and can do without them again when the time comes and that time IS coming. I keep 2 shortwave radios as backup in a faraday cage along with some other electronics I’m preserving. I keep an old mobile CB rig for backup comms that I test once a month to make sure it’s still good to go. It’s also best to have some LED flashlights and lanterns in the faraday. and don’t forget the batteries; a shitload of those.

    • Nemesis says:

      I also got rid of my cell phone almost 16 months ago, & I don’t miss it one bit either..

  10. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    They dont want boyfriends and husbands calling girfriends or wifes in the middle of martial law when they cut off the freeways. They need the chinese soldiers moving in to pick your children especially your daughters at school for you, while you panic, your car is down from the massive EMP ATTACK ON YOUR CITY and your not making it home.

    Luckily in my town most red necks, veterans and cops carry Ak’s and Ar’s and other accesories along with them. And our cops in my areas also carry thier AR’s in thier cruisers to offer a lending and to server the pubic, when shtf comenses. So go on, cut off the cell towers, have your north korean buddy Kim wang dong, or what the phuck that little cock sucker calls himself fire or drops the EMP on us, thinking that you luceferian pedo file rapist murderours killers can finally pull the calapse of your dreams. This is where they are mistaken.


    Welcome to Texas.


      • Sgt. Dale says:

        HCKS is correct a lot of the guys I’m working with that said that they wouldn’t carry an AR in their squads are now doing so. A lot of them said that they weren’t afraid of an attack on this area, but in the last few months They have all started carrying AR’s. How the times have changed. I’ve had one in my squad after 9-11.

        Please take it easy on HCKS. He is here trying to help and he believes and so do I that he is just trying to help. You don’t have to agree with him and I don’t always agree with him but I give him the benefit of the doubt. He is here to try and help us, and isn’t that what it is all about?


        • I dont understand the police fascination with AR’s. Dont get me wrong. I have plenty myself.
          But Police in general come into close contact with “Bad guys”.
          When I lived overseas I had the misfortune of being on both the sending and receiving side of some firefights. The weapon that chilled my blood was the simple shotgun. even if the guy shooting at you missed, the shear force of the concussion would make you piss your pants. Then assuming your weapon stops functioning, you can always use the shotgun as a club. try that with an AR…..

          • Warchild Dammit! says:

            Eh Ed,rather not get to point club is only choice,that said,a say blackout .300 with a Ace skeleton stock would do a pretty good # on anothers noggin swung by the barrel,that said,rather a pistol at that point!

            • Plan twice, prep once says:

              Have a way to attach a knife, bayonet style, to your rifle.

              Makes it harder for someone to disarm you. And the weapon is still deadly when you are reloading or just out. The longer reach of a rifle with a bayonet is an equalizer with a larger foe

            • Sgt. Dale says:

              I don’t know enough about the 300 black out to made a good judgment about it. What I do have, and know just how bad ass it is, is an LAR8 Rock River 308 M4 16″ barrel. Now if I want to carry a 30 Cal in an AR configuration this would be my go to gun. Or My M1A Socom in a m4 Choate stock. Oh ya these all fell into the crack in the ground after the last earth quake.


          • Sgt. Dale says:

            The reason for the AR’s is that is what we are up against or something like an AK or a Mini. Don’t get me wrong I love my 870 with 00 Buck , but the trouble with it is you have very little control over the 00 buck (IE) they spread too much. Yes the racking of an 870 scares the hell out of people.

            I use an 7 1/2 barreled AR pistol in my squad. Very easy to shoot and carry in very tight spaces. I shoot under 1″ groups at 25 to 40 yards with it.


        • angry beaver says:

          OK Sgt Ill lay off I’ve read your posts and find them.yo be well rounded. In truth I did lay off. He’s persistent I’ll give em that.
          I’ve read a few other posts asking me to leave him alone. so ya I will ignore his foolishness and let him be.

    • Taxdn2poverty says:

      That’s it, you are on the no fly list!

    • Cont divide. says:

      Hcks. You’re back!! Yeah. Missed you and it got boring without you. Remind us of the dates you think shtf.

      • angry beaver says:

        Conti divide
        Not to worry bro I kept him nice and frazzled several on here have asked me to back off him. I roasted him big time on a few articals you and I are the top ASS CLOWN TROLLS. So I’m taking a break from him. I leave him in your capable hands lol
        All yours Buddy.
        I know he’s been loosing sleep lol he’s getting crazier every day
        Starts out ranting about you and I attacking him lol typical hcks B.S.
        GET EM CONTI

        • Nopitypartyhere says:

          That’s agency azz clowns! Lol

          • Cont divide. says:

            A little respect please nopityparty. That is Mr azz agency clown to you. All kidding aside, I expect people to give opinions from good to bad. Just say it’s an opinion and not cite a scientist friend and a police friend etc. Hcks makes silly statements and adds he has friends who know and have told him. It is funny but gets old. Gosh tho…now that I have been burned as the agency azz clown that I am, I will lay off Hcks and move on….not. Haha

  11. Kevin2 says:

    Typewriters, Zerox Machines, Carbon Paper, Picture Film and Photographic Cameras that use it……priceless old school technology. See it at a yard sale scarf it up.

    • smokey says:

      Just bought a Nikon F2 camera and Nikon zoom lens, cost new was perhaps $3,000, for $150 at an estate sale. Just the filters that came with have a replacement cost over $300. Last year I called up a buddy from an estate sale and he got a complete Canon film outfit in the camera bag for $100. He found a Bogen enlarging setup at the Goodwill of all places, picked that up for $100 and is happily working away in his darkroom.

      I do shoot digital, but don’t take my Kodachrome away, as the song says.

      Keep your film in the refrigerator, it’ll last forever.

      • Kevin2 says:

        Old time technology works. I have little doubt that the YouTube uploaded video in real time of the cop doing the Bristol Stomp (cool dance by the way) on someone is getting bothersome, downright annoying. The next Kent State / Tinnamen Square (spelling) won’t have any coverage. Abraham Zapruder won’t have a video in the future. Its our word with our computer generated graphic video against nothing.

        1984 is a templete.

      • I used to buy film in bulk. When digital cameras came out I stopped using it and put it in the fridge. It tried some out about 6 months ago and it wasent very good…

    • Braveheart1776 says:

      Kevin2, the typewriters might still be useful IF you can find ribbons for them. When’s the last time anyone saw typewriters or ribbons in any store? On occasion I see some old film cameras for sale at flea markets and antique stores, but you won’t find film for those anywhere. the lenses from the more expensive models like professional photographers used will probably be useful for something, but that’s it. I haven’t seen Xerox machines or carbon paper anywhere in at least 20 years. On the type writers, if you find any with extra ribbons, make sure they’re manual and not electronic.

      • grandee says:

        typewriters might still be useful IF you can find ribbons for them.

        Amazon has them 🙂

        • smokey says:

          If you have carbon paper you have a ribbon. Just insert the 2 or more sheets of paper, with carbons, as normal, and type away. The top page will be blank, the lower pages will be typed in carbon.

          You need to be a good typist to do this, or every mistake will show on your original carbon.

      • Archivist says:

        You can make typewriter ribbons. The old ones are just cloth tape soaked in ink. You just need the reels and a supply of ink. I have enough ink to last me a lifetime plus two really old manual typewriters. You can re-ink old ribbons and use them over and over until the cloth wears through. Then cut a long strip of cloth, sew the edges so it won’t fray, attach it to the reels, and add ink. An old ribbon that has dried up can be revitalized with the proper solvent.

        Since I was trained in the old days, I know how to operate the manual typewriters. I also have a gadget for re-inking ribbons for dot matrix computer printers.

        If you really need carbon paper, you can make your own emergency version by coloring a sheet of thin paper on one side with a soft grade of pencil lead. Crayon might work, but I haven’t tried that yet.

      • Babycatcher55 says:

        I think the Vermont country store has them too! We have an old royal from the early 60’s. Still works, of course.

    • Stewart says:

      I have a pornographic memory

  12. jay in uk says:

    Cell phones down and no internet for say, 2-4 weeks, and everyone on the red list can be rounded up without so much as a peep. At the same time, mass military movements and VIPs dashing to bunkers can get underway without the world being alerted.

    NATO pre-WW3 planning has, for decades, envisaged a roundup of dissidents before hostilities commence – “just in case”… It’s all in the declassified UK materials revealed by Peter Hennessey in his book, “The Secret State”.

  13. KY Mom says:

    U.S. attorney general to ‘institutionalize’ Obama gun laws
    Effort to make immigration orders permanent also underway

    “U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch became the latest Obama appointee to admit that one of her top priorities is to make sure President Obama’s policies live on long after she and her boss leave power.”

    “WND reported in April 2015 Obama’s top domestic adviser, Cecilia Muñoz, said she was also working to institutionalize Obama’s policies. Only in the case of Muñoz, her focus would not be on gun control but on immigration.”

    “Lynch also threatened to prosecute those who use “anti-Muslim rhetoric” that “edges toward violence” and said that her “greatest fear” is the “incredibly disturbing rise of anti-Muslim rhetoric.”

    Those fears, apparently, keep Lynch up at night more consistently than the fears of another jihadist attack against American citizens, such as those that took place in 2015 in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and San Bernardino, California, leaving a total of 19 dead.”

    WND dot com

    • smokey says:

      I guess putting bacon on a door handle at a mosque is worse than shooting your coworkers at the holiday party.

      Institutionalizing a policy lasts only as long as the policy.

    • “U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch became the latest Obama appointee to admit that one of her top priorities is to make sure President Obama’s policies live on long after she and her boss leave power.”

      Good luck on that when he is in prison for high treason along with his other felonious cronies up to and including that old hag Hibbity Bippidy Clinton. Time to take America back again and perhaps make it great again if that is still possible. (Which I doubt)

      The economic crisis is here to stay for a while along with living with nuclear threats from Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Then you have a country here that has no formal border, an aggressive anti white Christian hating government. There is so much more wrong with our country but that will have to suffice for now. Sleep well fellow preppers for you may never have another wake up.


    • Obama policies will live on because his replacement will continue them just like he continued Bush’s policies. Same team, same goals. Nothing they do would be permanent otherwise. Permanente destruction? Constitutional Convention.

  14. I don’t think this is too much of a surprise to most of us here. They will cut phone service and take control of the media as well. It would not be the first time either. I used to collect old Hallicrafters radios and several of them had the same wire removed. I was discussing this with an old repairman and he told me that during WWII, radio repairmen were told by the government that when a radio came in for repair, if it had short wave capabilities, to cut this wire out so they could not use the shortwave feature. They apparently did not want people back home listening to what was happening in Europe and other parts of the world over shortwave.

    • Braveheart1776 says:

      JAS< I have an old Hallicrafters radio from about the mid-50s that is still in working condition. One of the old "boat anchor" radios, I bought it at an antique store in 2013 for $100. It had a broken plug on the AC cord. A $3 heavy-duty plug from a hardware store solved that problem. When I plugged it in, lo and behold, it worked and not one tube was blown out. There's still some online sources for those old radio tubes. I keep it stored away cause it may come in handy one day.

      • They were great old radios. I had several at one time, but have since sold them all. I still keep a few new radios around with shortwave capabilities, to listen to if things get bad. Everyone should have a couple of shortwaves and learn how to make a long wire antenna to get information during emergencies.

        • Braveheart1776 says:

          JAS, I’ve been using long wire antennas with alligator clips attached on each end ever since the 70s and they’ve never failed me. always get a good signal with them.

  15. aljamo says:

    What cesspool did Obaldfacedliar find this traitorous evil looking angry negro crony to be AG?. How long has being a lying pile of shit been a prerequisite for US political office. Most of my life.

  16. Ron Ahrens says:

    OREGON UPDATE: Made it to the campground 6 miles from the patriots at the refuge. The patriot owner of the Good Sam RV Park has already been hassled by the Feds. They are making a resident of the campground leave. I am watching them tow away his trailer right now in front of me. We are currently the only ones here. DHS is on scene at the airport with the FBI. More supplies dropped off today by local residents, ranchers, and farmers. Snowing quite a bit right now. Getting settled in to see what they will do next. We have wi-fi here which is great. I will try and upload video my son is taking of them removing the guys trailer. He is a govt worker at the refuge and was told he was in danger. I see the mainstream media is pulling out all the stops with nothing bit lies and manipulations.

    • 2isone says:

      Wow Ron. I thought all hotels and RV parks would be chockerblock full there. Can’t believe they’re making that guy pull out as I am guessing you guys are pretty much removed from potential danger- what a hassle for him. Maybe they just don’t want him getting interviewed?

    • Ron, been considering a trip up there but have been worried about search and seizure of out of state registered weapons and such. Were you hassled as you got into the area?


      • Ron Ahrens says:

        Got pulled over when we came in, spoke with the officers, of course two more cars showed up when I told them i had my personal protection on me. I was able to show them my badge and I am allowed to carry anywhere in the country because of HR 218. We talked for awhile about the situation and then they let me go. I told them I supported Ammon and Lavoy and why. Our pop-up spring broke, so we had to wait until Thursday for the spring so we could come camping where we are at now-the Good Sam Park 6 miles from the patriots. We have limited funds to stay until Monday, so thanks to the great patriot Pete Santilli, he put us up at his hotel for two nights. For all those still screaming like deranged cowards that Pete is a fed, Pete is a shill, Pete is this, and Pete is that…THE FACTS ARE PETE IS HERE COVERING THIS UNFILTERED AND WHERE EXACTLY ARE YOU COWARDS????? Yes this place is crawling with police, yes this place is crawling with feds, but so is the whole fucking country when you live in a Corporatist Fascist Police State nightmare. My family will not live in fear any longer of this criminal federal government. We are putting the American flag on the roof of our pop-up, so the drones circling around here have a clear target. My family do not want to bleed out from shrapnel wounds, we would prefer to be vaporized by a hellfire missile if they choose to kill us for being on private property protesting our criminal government and showing support for the patriots. We would hope others would come and take our place here by Monday-we have to get back to our organic farm and chickens. Obey all laws regarding weapons if you come, and you have NO REASON TO BE AFRAID-IT IS TIME TO STAND PEOPLE AND THIS IS AS GOOD A PLACE AS ANY

  17. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    Sarge, thanks for educating that agency ass clown troll.Beaver. That dumb ass must think that I am making up sh.t two of my friends are cops one of them is plucking bounty hunter..that chases dred lock and takes the pieces of trash off the streets and into the county jail for good reason. One time I went with him on a run to see how it works I meet sh…T when I saw the crap he does..but when you see the crime that those pieces of low lifes have committed it’s not surprising anymore. he brought me because he has 6’4 thug to pick up that was violent and I had to educate the dred lock about potential broken bones, luckily he didn’t like my appearance and decided to cooperate..just less than 3 plucking mile’s from my office two jihadist were arrested with isis patches remember, one was on TV, the other one was not when they caught the phucker. My cop friend told me from the gym..he said he added his AR ever since it happened..so phuck off beaver. You are 100% troll, now you have made and ass out of your self. Welcome to the shtfplan.com fool.

    Sarge is a real cop Beaver, you dumb ass..



    Conti divide= TROLL
    Angry Bever= TROLL.

    AGENCY ASS CLOWN Super moderator right again..

    • HBOMB says:

      Cops aren’t your friends, dumbass.

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      Well,as June Cleaver would say,”HCKS ,weren’t you a little hard on the Beaver today?”!

      • angry beaver says:

        I’ve been asked by a few respected people to just leave hcks alone and I will I’ve come to realise that most everyone here just humours him and is overly nice to him.
        So hcks here it is I’ll leave you alone. But I gotta say that IP address theory of yours is the best one yet.

        • eppe says:

          Angry, thank you.
          In the 7+ years here, a host of characters have said so many things here, would make your head spin.
          That is what makes this site so interesting.
          That is why I say, read the archives, much to learn…

          Yall misbehave…

      • eppe says:

        War, you are bad…
        I have 2 bro-in-laws LEOs in my group, so I am biased to them.
        But have had run ins with some in the 80’s, rough decade.
        One should not judge, until you know them.
        Talked with Sgt Dale a few times, he is on, in trusting his voice on matters as such.
        But all be well, it is your most valueable asset you got…

    • Sgt. Dale says:

      I asked Angry beaver to back off of you and they told me that the would. See response above.

      So Please do me a favor and back off of Angry.

      We all different opinion, and won’t always agree.

  18. Ricky says:

    Why can’t people just use landline phones?

    I’ve gone back to using my landline as mobiles offer poor reception and loss of privacy. I never liked people being able to get hold of me when away from home.

    I read that landline phones were declining fast over in the USA – is this true?

  19. Asshat says:

    I got cheap prepaid phone it it goes off oh well. I’ve already reduced my use of phones just to call my work for business and the wife at home for emergencies. I will communicat the old way by runner or in person can’t track my moves that way. Anyone I talk to is good ole boys and I just stop by after work if I need to make a trade or borrow tools they stop by my place if they need to do the same. I’ve said it before I got my own agenda and nothing is gonna stop me from it. When you got your own agenda your gonna have minor setbacks but you deal with it and move on.

  20. Kevin2 says:

    A must read. Basically its, “Follow The Money”.

    h ttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-14/willing-idiots-geopolitical-instability

  21. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    Hbomb,.i live in Texas.. and yes I have cops who are my friends, and there are bad cops which I have encountered in the past, and there is good and bad in everything and to stay the word cops..that makes you dumbass..so go and kiss mothers ass..i will not make this website a hostile board fro cops because cops come here to read and post.. and the key to our success as civilization is good relationships with citizens and cops.. someone has to clean u trash from the streets.. you are one ignorant plucking idiot..

    As for you beaver, I am for real and everything I comment is real I click g what I told this board that happened by former finance.. so talk sh…T to me boy..if you stop the attacks and cut the bullsh…T then you must prove your self..good news gets people killed in the current environment of her his planet with rulers that are killing us, starting wars, raping women in hybrid streets, so this is the real word I am living in.. we are not a site for fun and laughter, this is real..your presense is not needed on hit his site you need to leave..you are hell bent on silencing me and I will not shut up just to please you so that you can keep you shorty job in the DHS fusion center.. you have requested the name of my scientists friend, where he lives, his address etc his field, so that you can go to have him killed and silenced. Phuckers like you I know you type so eat sh..t and go else where..i am not backing down on you not matter what you say or who you try to bullsh…T.12:03 am in morning I did a post test and you attacked me immediately, no one does this that’s a real prepper, so phuck off trolls.. you are BANNED. GOOD BY ANGRY BEAVER.



  22. Thor 1 says:

    How about us cutting their communications with an emp device if they come to our homes. Its basically a coil of lacquered wires, a large capacitor and a switch. Hehehe

  23. 2isone says:

    Truth is, we all bring something to the table wherever we live. I have 3 or 4 good sources of information with a SIL a Captain in the National Guard… a relative who was a major figure in a huge oil company and who is still very well connected… an Army Reserve Base nearby and a local working population who will be notified of emergencies ahead of time due to the nature of their work. I also have a relative who works for Monsanto… not bragging by any means. Just saying, I get a lot of information from talking with these people. My SIL for example, thought the Jade Helm scare was bullsh÷t but made me aware that the terror threat was being taken more seriously. Since he also works at a big box store, I ask him about inventory and stocking. The Monsanto guy tells me about the farm travails of his clients all over the state.
    Besides for the benign things we notice or talk about on a daily basis, if I found out anything of immediate urgency, I would pass it on. That’s why I’m here. To learn what’s going on elsewhere. To look for patterns. To hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
    What I do know is that things are changing quickly and quietly around us. A $2.28 box of Cheerios cost $3.38 today.
    The bottled water aisle was nearly empty today at a Walmart in the land of plenty. What’s most ridiculous about that is that the source of one of the main brands that was missing is a few miles from here.

  24. Plan twice, prep once says:

    Amazing how communications went out in the big storm a few years ago. There were days of warning it was coming.

    Some yahoo racing to buy a loaf of bread from the empty store shelves hours before the storm ran into a pole and power went out while the winds were still calm. It didn’t come back on for us for 11 days.

    The phone company CO box lost power, so land lines and DSL went dead. Cable service local hub went down, so no cable, Internet or Fios. It was all dead and stayed out until power was restored.

    Local cell towers had battery backup that lasted about 6 hours, after that nada.

    By morning the storm did its worst and hundreds of power poles were down. Streets were not passable and downed wires made roads incredibly dangerous.

    If you needed police you could not phone and you could not drive there. It was an interesting life lesson to experience. CB, and ham radio worked, nothing else. But if Feds want they can jam those.

    Interesting test, when Desert storm was ramping up, I scanned short wave nightly for about a half hour. Then one night about half the channels that normally had something we’re just static. That was the night of the attack, news the next day confirmed it. Also watch GPS for Fed jamming activity. Jamming activity is a tell. DHS loves to use the same frequency as garage door openers, it has the ability to penetrate many building materials that block other frequencies. Any change in garage door reception can be a tell of local DHS activity.

    A few compact air horns from a boating store are great signaling devices, as are flare guns, as are car horns.

    While replacing expired smoke detectors I mused at taking the sirens out of them and assemble them into a ball with a battery pack in the center and a pull pin switch. Essentially a non lethal sonic hand grenade, it would work great since my team would have hearing protection.

  25. Sgt. Dale says:

    What is it with the sight. You try to type in something and it skips letters or freezes up. This is the only place I’m have trouble. Maybe its the weather or a sun spot or something????


  26. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    Sarge, I just read your post..ok I will give him break..so long as he behaves..



  27. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    2isone, that is some very interesting stuff you heard…since you live in Texas and so do I, defiantly keep us up to date.. their is so much crazy crap going on all ver the place, it’s getting wild wizzle….yes the dollar is calapsing and that change like like inflation and I work in finance so this is getting very serious and us like glen Lindsey Williams about 2016 is literally up in our faces now.. when people can’t feed them selves what’s next and we know that this inflation us designed to cause ordo..ab cao…this is why we must have food..



    • 2isone says:

      HCKs- The Monsanto employee is my SIL’S stepfather. I listened to him check in on clients all over the state via his cell phone during visits. This bad stretch of drought knocked a lot of small farmers out of business OR they had to change their crops over to something that would survive (not food for people). Besides for all that, I was amazed at how many people are in hook, line and sinker for their GMO seeds! So, just knowing that one guy, takes that subject from conspiracy to reality for me. Since it is his livelihood of course, he takes the view that roundup and GMOS are lifesaving agritools.
      I think most people find it hard to understand the kind of connectivity possible in a place like Houston. We went to church with one of the astronauts when we lived in the Clear Lake area, as well as sending our kids to the same elementary school. My husband worked on space shuttle trajectory for a time and I ran their computer print room off site for a time. It’s been a dynamic environment for us, full of opportunity- and I am glad we decided to come here from Louisiana those many years ago.

  28. Satori says:

    British Film Destroys Official 9/11 Story

    h ttp://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/01/14/british-film-destroys-official-911-story/

    ht tp://www.incontrovertible911evidence.co.uk/

    • passinwiththewind says:

      Speaking of films; anyone want to get a feel of true life survival in the deep wilderness mountains in the winter, just go see the movie Revenant.

      Replace the savage Indians with modern day gangs, and you got the recipe for survival of the fittest, in the harshest conditions possible.

      Having spent a little time in wilderness, grizzly inhabited country, I can tell you they can and will attack with deadly consequences, for no reason. In the same area that we hunted in the nineties, a week after we returned home, a hunter was attacked by a monster sized sow and most likely would have been killed except for the quick thinking of the nearby guide that came to his rescue.
      The guide was unable to get a clear shot because the grizz was tossing the 200 lb. man around like a rag doll, and slinging the man’s blood everywhere, so he ran up to the bear with pistol in hand and kicked the bear in the side. The beast immediately dropped the man, and turned to attack the guide.
      As he was just missed by a swipe from the deadly claws, the man was able to put two rounds into the bears chest. The bear ran off, and was later tracked and finished off.

      The hunter was air lifted about fifty miles from the nearest open field, to Helena hospital where he was given a fifty fifty chance of survival. After three weeks he began to revive, and lived to tell the story.

      My friend from home was a cook with the same outfit for a few years, and was once chased up a tree by a grizz when all the hunters and guides were gone. He said the bear demolished the mess tent, and then growled at him as he left camp. That was his last season of wilderness camp cook.

      The movie was awesome and the first that i have actually went to a theater to see in over fifteen years. I was not disappointed and the wife said it was the most realistic movie she has ever watched. L. Dicaprio made a stellar performance, and was his best ever. Which, i thought he could never surpass wolf of wallstreet.

      If you can’t handle lots of blood, killing and raw flesh scenes, don’t bother going, because it is full from start to finish. No naked women, but a lot of cursing, and definitely not for pre-teens.

      • PO'd Patriot says:

        Passin’ read the story of the accounts of Hugh Glass many years ago. Just watched the pirated version of the Remenent last week. The book I read never disclosed of him having a son. With that being said, Hollywood must have made some changes.

        • passinwiththewind says:

          Oh yea, PO’D Patriot.

          You know they did. Many of Hugh Glass’s stories and family are pure conjecture based on mountain men’s tales and so forth.
          The fascination is akin to that of Daniel Boone from the Appalachian settlement period.

          I love those old stories and books. As a kid in grade school, it was may escape in winter to keep from feeling cooped up and depressed. As an outdoors/nature lover, I could read those old books about Kit Carson, Jim Bridger, Lewis and Clark, Boone and others and live through them.

          This movie took that vicarious living to the highest level. The cinematography was absolutely awesome, and as my wife said; “you could almost feel the rugged wilderness in your soul”. For people that have never been into the deep Rocky Mountains, it is a good trip through the lens.

          She was glad i talked her in to going. The movie opened last Friday, and we went to the noon showing at a new Theater in our town. Although the seats were the most comfortable I have ever sat in, the volume was over the top with the surround sound. Yes you could feel the boom and thump of the black powder cannons, but it was distracting because it was so loud. We crammed tissue in our ears, but it didn’t help much. Maybe we go again soon, with another $5.00 in hand and a pair of ear plugs.

          Yes, for me, the movie was that awesome and moving. Seldom, does any movie come out of Follywood, that is worth spending money to sit through. Star Wars was on in one of the five arenas, and we could have just walked right in without paying a dime after the Revenant showing. I told the wife that I would not be caught dead watching that StarWars crap. Animated bullshit crap that is for childish thinking and acting people. I don’t see what all the hype is about. A cheap thrill to escape reality for a couple hours maybe.

  29. Enemy of the State says:

    why would they stop at just fucking with our 2nd amendment right?

    This is the point I’ve tried to get across to people that don’t support the right to bear arms
    If this bunch of criminals would go after our 2nd A
    Than they will go after every singe right we have

    This shit has been in the making for decades
    We dam sure better step up our game and dam soon

    This is a direct swipe at our 1st A

    • Kulafarmer says:

      I figure if they cut it, ill help em out and walk a few key power lines with a chainsaw,,, timberrrr

    • smokey says:

      When you tell people they want your rights to free speech, assembly, trial by jury, your income, property, labor, pensions, health care, all of it, some start to think about it a little bit, others just dismiss it outright.

      Anyone who has a gun and does not vote for the pro-gun candidate in this election cycle is going to lose his gun.

      They can bluster all they want about taking some cops with them, blah, blah, blah, but it’s going to be a lot simpler just to vote. Get registered and vote.

      This time, we’re playing for all the marbles.

  30. PO'd Patriot says:

    Oil @29.75 this mournin’ (6:45am et). All Europe, China/Hong Kong, and Japan deep into the red. Dow closed yesterday 380 above 16K. Today we might fall below the 16K mark.

    • Archivist says:

      Asian markets were down overnight, and European markets are already down. Dow futures are below 16000. So yesterday’s gains may disappear today.

      Gas this morning is $1.72, down from $1.76 yesterday, here in eastern NC.

  31. Infidel-2 says:

    Come on folks; GRID DOWN it all stops and I mean EVERYTHING. Only thing that will work are battery operated devices. Good old CB hand-held will work for what is needed. What good will it help to talk to someone a hundred miles away in the SHTF event. Batteries, batteries and more batteries should be put back now. When it goes south where your at will more than likely be where your will be for a very long time. Eyes open and ear to the ground in earnest from now on, so not to be caught off guard and somewhere you don’t want to be. IMHO!

    WE The Few!!


    Oh well whats the difference unless you have solar power where are you going to get the electricity from ?

    They can pull the plug on the grid too, then what you going to do ?

    So just get ready to live back in the 1800s its as simple as that.

    The only ones that will survive is the realist, not the fantasy, or the yuppies………

  33. PO'd Patriot says:

    One of the ‘gimme dats’, has just opened up a “go fund me page” and is asking for donations after reportedly using all her money to buy powerball tickets feeling with all those tickets she would surely win. She appears to be an esteemed member of our African population.


    Some of the responses are a hoot. Some have sent money.

  34. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    Infidel2, your correct. Must have lots of batteries and I have already fere day caged my electronics including and extra car computer as back up..also guys like Genius advised me awhile back, heat seal up your bug out bag contents in case you are exposed to water, If you all remember what happened to me…every jug out bag just have watt proof mathes, 10 cigarette lighter, a flint, dust mask etc, lots of batteries, and ax, etc..ammo, and a small caliber pistol with 100 rounds, water packets, gets these on readystore.com…always carry extra shoes and clothing in your car very where you go plus you shot gun with 2 bandaleers..100 rounds plus incase you need to clean the steets in your way back when wwz..type scenario hits..good luck, and even with al of this I am not even certain if I would even make it and get to home from 25 miles away, but 00 buck shot does wonders of you have 100’s coming at you..all I need now is archival is it and mask as the final buffer when SHTF commences..this is where I am lot too prepared..





      Do not be caught in MARYLAND with all this.


    • passinwiththewind says:

      pretty damn sad HCKS that you live like you do in fear, and even more sad that you feel you need advice from a creep like Genius. He is a living legend in his own mind, and puts himself above God. You are getting close to his lowness.

      Your idea of being a Mad Max street cleaner is so stupid it is laughable. One shot by a window sniper will leave that bandoleer with the street thugs and you pussin’ up daisies. LOL.

      The lack of commonsense by so many on here is pure entertainment. Nothing useful.

  35. Unknown Suspect says:

    Old news. This was talked about at a couple Federal gov IT conferences that I attended. Interesting bit of history- there was a secret area code in the bell system that government would use in case of a crisis.

    • smokey says:

      They used to have there own telephone system, FTS. It was actually the same system as Ma Bell put to the public, but you dialed several numbers in front of the area code and number to get you do the system. The cost for long distance was much less.

  36. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:


    PWW, Genius offered some advice on Bug out Bag Content
    because i had water damage in my car and all the batteries and its contents were completely destroyed costing my over $200.00 bucks in the process when the HAARP induced torential rains flooded out Houston. I had not sealed up the contents of all my Bug out bags, and was bragging to one my buddies when i pulled out the bug out bag from the truck wheel compartment of my Camaro, and if you drive and F-body, then the tire area is where you need to place that Bag. Genius does talk some serious horse crap on this site and do i, but i have to admit. My car was flooded out from the inside with my bug out right in the middle of it. That explains why i picked up my date, now girlfriend and she is asking my what that funky smell in your car, its didnt take long to figure that one out. Yes, i have put in a bug out bag in her car, damn right i did it. Not to mention all the bad stuff at the shooting range, like capping thugs at 3-400 yards, go figure.

    His advice had me making some drastic changes to all my bug out bags, i ended with and shtf meeting with my friends and after showing them what happened to me, everyone agreed that we must place one massive thick heavy duty garbage bag on the inside and literlly heat seal the contents your batteries, flashlight, etc.. i was laughed at when my non preppert friend looked at me and said, your just a dead as us, if that what you call life saving supplies.

    Genius is still a genuis.. yes we all talk crap even me.

    Genius offered some advice on heat sealing, so i implemented that to all bug out bags. Everyone coming on this site who are preppers have em. Drop the phucking bag into water and watch what happens.

    My evolutionary process began:

    I am not a pussified indiviual, dont look at me as one. You either learn, man up, adapt, pull your head out of your ass, or face the BUTTCRACKOFDOOM.

    When your homeless, your house is gone, you have lost your apartment, and i am on the streets one night when i saw the term SHTF, AND it lead me to this site, Immdiately i knew why i had not eaten for over a week. It’s because i was a stupid dumb down person at the time, i had a lot to learn, bad things had happened to me and other in the past, and now i am was homeless.

    I literally dumped mine into my Red neck friends fricking swimming pool for 20 mins, all 4 of the bags and all of them survived the stress test. So Genuis, you may be one crazy sob, but i have to admit, damn good advice bro. Even me of all people gettin ready for hell on earth would have been caught up into the EMP event and would been captured, shot and eaten in a future calpase. I dont need my ammo under water soaking and going bad. As far as the shot gun and bandeleers is concerned, this is if a citywide calapse hits, via, emp, within 12 hrs of all the major cities according to my scientist buddy, all the major cites will be engolfed in civil war, all the major food chains, wiped out. Snipers on Building will out there with foreign soldiers, i am sure that they will shoot my ass and kill me, butthey can try, having 1,000 notty headed dredlock violent criminals who are hungry, these so called new preppers, is what my friend likes to call them, will be aquiring resources with violence, assualt, raps, robbering, shooting, rioting, violent uproars, attack women all over the road ways, freeways, and like he told me it will look literally like WWarZ, literally people running all over the fricking city like zombies. So, when it comes, two bandeleers, 100’s round of 00, acutips, SST slugs, Brenecke steal penetrator rounds, with be needed to stop Big, black brutal violent dred lock thugs. These sons of bithes have robbed some of my customers in Houston, attack one my female customers, invaded here home in 2012, taserd her 6 times, and her sister, robbed her, beat her over the head, and this did happen. And guess what, these phuckers got away with it, and home invasions are taking place all over Houston and we have very bad, bad, bad crime. Now calapse Houston, or the cabal get Kim jung wang, to fire and EMP on our asses, from either our own government, or a foreighn allie, that does it for them. When i say that i am making it back to home, and from there my BOL. Then its respoonsible for me to travel with the firepower of a Mossberg 590A1 shot gun with a small tactical Bugout bag, to prepare for war in the streets. Any Questions. I am not some raging retarted idiot with mental problems like what most think.


    My ex girlfriend and former fiancee, was abducted fomr the parking lot of her town home and gang raped by nigger thugs 15 years ago, dumped her butt ass nude in the streets, yea, try living with that on you mind, and deal with it, and the niggers got away with it.

    Passin, your going to lecture a guy like, get phucking real buddy. How Many snipers will it take to subdue 100,000 dred lock, red necks with Ar’s and AK’s, pissed off people, then now 1,000,000 of them scavinging Houston for food and water. Cops will need to carry extra clothing in the cruisers and look like civilans and get the phuck away from the car, and out of the area and save your own asses.

    I guess the women will tell me that i dont know crap and mental problems. When you have access to people that i have access to hear real serious info and and what coming, think again. Canada, bank robbies up 65%, home invasions up 65%, robbery, attacks assaults, all because the oil companies ended projects, i heard this form the top recruiter just 4 months ago when he told, watch Canada. Canada, is getting into shtf. look at the God damn detergent and food labels for Christ sake. People wake the phuck up. I have really bad crap happen to a women i loved, and this will not be happeing with the current one, I will not be sitting in the freeway of my city empty handed and let 1,000 dred lock advancing toward me or soldiers coming for my woman. You can prepare how you need to, fine, i have my ways to dealing with that type of insurgency. And the advice cops in Houston, Put in and ammo box of 1,000 rounds of .223/5.56/5 mags, you guys are and instant target by the dred lock, what are you all going to do, jump outside your cruisers and start ordering them around. You better have a shot gun and AK or AR15. Just less than 1 /2 mile from my office here is Houston, a bank robbery went down last year just less than one mile from a police station. The nigger thugs dont give a rats ass about police stations in the area, and yes, the phuckers got away with it. No the cablist rat bastard want to engineer calapse, cut off cell towers, the grid and bring martial Law in Houston, eh?



    Yea, people want to advice me. Yea right. I live breathe and eat shtf.

    Constructive thinking and planing wins everytime.

  37. Observer says:

    Anyone remember Katrina? FEMA came in and took over dissemination of all news and info from the affected areas. Full spectrum dominance of communications for the purpose of controlling what people know and think during crises.

  38. Woogie says:

    DOW is down over 500 pts at this time. It looks like a downward spiral into depression. We are already in a recession.

  39. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

    POD l, I know you an me have had few arguments but damn, I just read your link. Thats got to the the most craziest sh..t..talk about stupid dumb plucking dumbass people sent that bitch money. You have got to be sh..ing me.



    Phucking people

  40. Padre says:

    I am of the opinion that using any means of communication other than very short range radio communications would be dangerous to OpSec during a SHTF… my hope is to be able to order and coordinate a rally for my group in the minutes and hours after zero hour using my cell, however once we are ready to bug out we plan to ditch our SIMs and power down as I recommend all of you do. Even without cell communication everyone knows to meet up and bug out so although cell comms would be nice…they are not essential, and can, like any sigint be dangerous! Connecting to even one tower gives away too much information about your location even before worrying about the ability of certain parties to pirate your cell turning on your mike and camera effectively turning your pda into a bug. Once you are settled in to a location you never know who is listening, and since even non-governmental actors can jam comms you likely don’t want to stake your life on them! Personally I have a local area hard wired wired phone system for perimeter security and low power two ways for back up.

  41. slingshot says:

    There is one thing you do not want to do. That is to get old. Even at my attempt to ease the pain by a severe drunk attack, I have found it does not work 100%. Still to add insult to injury, I decided to take the advise to get BETTER IN SHAPE and jump aboard my wife’s exercise machine. My whole body has been hurting. Talk about muscle burn. The funny part is that I thought I could do a higher level . Which was quickly lowered. The expression that things happen for a reason and my trip to the E.R. proves that out. I am not out of the woods yet for there is a stress test involved. ;0)

    What you may get out of my trouble is that shit happens and you have to roll with the punches.

    I also been doing plenty of research and acquiring material and making objects.

    Here is one tip for home security in my research.

    Put out a couple of metal garden rakes with the tangs up as anti personal traps.

    Now it does sound funny but if you have ever stepped on one and had the wooden handle hit you square in the face. ;0)

  42. Junebug Actual says:

    Bought a pair of Gotenna for this very reason. Provides an avenue for moderate distance communication without record or use of cell towers. http://www.gotenna.com

  43. Big brother is watching and listening… Jesus Love YOU TOO Big Brother…

    More End Time News At:

  44. Devil's Advocate says:

    You might also want to just acquire the ham equipment and do a tiny bit of setup and a few test transmissions with some friend-ham in a distant location, then shut it off and go silent. Not go for the license, which would put you as red pin on the map — in some specific but plausible scenario that a martial law situation may arise where the authorities might target licensed amateur radio operators with greater verve than (even) CCW permit holders.