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$8 Trillion Short On Pensions?! “No One Goes To Jail Because Establishment Is Complicit”

Tyler Durden
August 10th, 2016
Zero Hedge
Comments (59)
Read by 7,733 people

pension cuts_0

This article was written by Tyler Durden and originally published at Zero Hedge.

Editor’s Comment: The bigger they are, the harder they fall. This ponzi scheme is fueled by promises that can’t be fulfilled, and shady corporate management which has invested many of these funds in derivatives markets, all while cities and states pretend to keep the ball rolling and cover-up the severe shortages for as long as possible.

People who think they are working towards a comfortable retirement are in for a rude awakening, while the feds will try to move the masses onto the federal farm.

An Unsolvable Math Problem: Public Pensions Are Underfunded By As Much As $8 Trillion

by Tyler Durden

Defined Benefit Pension Plans are, in many cases, a ponzi scheme.  Current assets are used to pay current claims in full in spite of insufficient funding to pay future liabilities… classic Ponzi.  But unlike wall street and corporate ponzi schemes no one goes to jail here because the establishment is complicit.  Everyone from government officials to union bosses are incentivized to maintain the status quo…public employees get to sleep better at night thinking they have a “retirement plan,” public legislators get to be re-elected by union membership while pretending their states are solvent and union bosses get to keep their jobs while hiding the truth from employees.

We even published a note several days ago entitled “Establishment Tries To Suppress “Dissident Actuaries” Explosive Report On Public Pensions,” which pointed out that the American Academy of Actuaries and the Society of Actuaries killed a report that would have warned about the implications of lowering long-term expected returns on pension assets.  Apparently the truth was just too scary.

Bill Gross has been warning of the unintended consequences of low interest rates for years, and reiterated his concerns to Bloomberg recently:

Fund managers that have been counting on returns of 7 percent to 8 percent may need to adjust that to around 4 percent, Gross, who runs the $1.5 billion Janus Global Unconstrained Bond Fund, said during an Aug. 5 interview on Bloomberg TV. Public pensions, including the California Public Employees’ Retirement System, the largest in the U.S., are reporting gains of less than 1 percent for the fiscal year ended June 30.

To our great surprise, certain pension funds are finally taking notice.  Richard Ingram of Illinois’s largest pension fund recently announced that he would be taking another look at long-term return expectations noting that “anybody that doesn’t consider revisiting what their assumed rate of return is would be ignoring reality.”  Ingram’s Illinois Teachers’ Retirement System is only 41.5% funded and currently assumes annual returns of 7.5%, down from 8% in 2014.

We decided to take a look at what would happen if all federal, state and local pension plans decided to heed the advice of Mr. Gross. As one might suspect, the results are not pleasant.  We conservatively assume that public pensions are currently $2.0 trillion underfunded ($4.5 trillion of assets for $6.5 trillion of liabilities) even though we’ve seen estimates that suggest $3.5 trillion or more might be more appropriate.  We then adjusted the return on asset assumption down from the 7.5% used by most pensions to the 4.0% suggested by Mr. Gross and found that true public pension underfunding could be closer to $5.5 trillion, or over 2.5x more than current estimates.  Others have suggested that returns should be closer to risk-free rates which would imply an even more draconian $8.4 trillion underfunding.   

Pension UnderfudningWhile it should be a substantial overhang for the economy, no one seems to care for now, and thus, we don’t expect this issue to be addressed anytime in the near future.  Certainly legislators have no incentive to address this issue now… the country’s 15 million union employees may not be so happy about supporting their political candidates if they knew their retirement plans were insolvent… much better to let the system break in 20 years then fix it with a massive tax increase and subsequent taxpayer bailout after convincing the electorate that the problem was somehow created by top earners not paying “their fair share.”  After all, it’s only $23,000 per man, woman and child.

This article was written by Tyler Durden and originally published at Zero Hedge.

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Author: Tyler Durden
Views: Read by 7,733 people
Date: August 10th, 2016
Website: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-09/public-pension-ponzi-are-public-pensions-short-8-trillion

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59 Comments...

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  1. Nobama says:

    Working all my life but I have no pension. I’ve had to fund my own retirement myself. Therefore I feel no pity at all about anyone’s pension plans, especially those funded by tax payers. Fuck ’em.

    • PO'd Patriot says:

      Pulled the plug on my IRA years ago paid the penalty and bought silver. Still buying it and will continue to do so as long as I’m able. If I don’t use it all up before I die, it’ll go to my children/wife.

    • Kevin2 says:

      Nobama

      If your promised $20 an hour and at the end of your 40 hour work week you get $500 not $800 you would go to the authorities of some sort. Pensions are deferred pay. You don’t get paid daily do you? Pensions are just differed longer.

      Promising to pay X and delivering Y is theft, period.

    • Mike in VA says:

      Nobama

      I agree with your statement with some exceptions. Lets say for example you agreed to build a deck for someone for 5000.00. When you get done the customer says here is 3000.00 thats all I have.

      You are right that we should not be paying pensions with tax payer dollars. I feel sorry for those who were told they would get pensions but are not. There are many who have already retired and have pensions. Then the company they worked for comes and says sorry we are cutting your pension and insurance. To me that should be illegal. It would be illegal for you and I to decide after we sign a contract for say a vehicle to only pay half the price.

      I don’t care how much one makes or the agreement they have for performing a job. I really think that all people should be that way. It is the only way to keep the American Dream if we ever get the right to get it back. You should earn what you are worth and what is agreed no matter what.

      Jealousy and thinking of just one’s self is part of the problem that landed us where we are. Greed and desire for power landed us here too. Everyone does not care about others. Yes I am currently promised a pension. I don’t expect to get one when I get there. It was one of the things I was promised though and I have been working for the power company for 18 years. They are also trying to change insurance and retirement for those who have already retired.
      I think that is completely wrong and those in government and business who have mismanaged funds should go to jail.
      It is also no different than social security which we paid into all our lives and will never get. The money was stolen.

      In a truly free America with the American Dream alive and well I believe this is how things should be. Everyone should be able to make whatever they can using there own minds and hands. They should be allowed to succeed of fail on there own accord. We should all have the freedom to choose whether we want to help others and not be mandated to do so by taxes that are taken from us. There will always be jealousy of others but the only way have the American Dream is to allow one to make as much as they can even if it is a trillion dollars. As long as it is legal and not done by taking advantage of others.

    • Acid Etch says:

      http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/08/08/ban-ki-moon-today-big-challenges-are-gender-equality-climate-change/

      United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon began Monday his official visit to Argentina with a speech in which said the principal objectives of his work are achieving gender equality and doing something about climate change, as well as making the U.N. more efficient.

      “current problems marked by the refugee crisis and the fight against a degree of terrorism and extremism never seen before”

      YOU MEAN, NON WHITES KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE?

      “Violence is on the rise…violence is shattering lives, disrupting development and forcing millions from their homes.”

      IM SURE THE 80 IQ MUSLIMS WERE ABOUT TO INVENT COLD FUSION BEFORE WHITEY STARTED BOMBING ISIS

      He said that governments must consequently “do more to prevent conflict and build peace, to uphold international humanitarian law, and live up to the promise of the Charter of the United Nations.”

      IN EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY ON EARTH REGARDLESS OF THE LAW WHEN YOU LOOK AT RACE THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE IS ALWAYS THE SAME. GET RID OF THE NON-WHITES.

      During his 9 1/2 years as head of the U.N., Ban has sought to change the organization by incorporating more women, but acknowledged that work must still be done to eliminate the glass ceiling that blocks gender equality in individual countries and internationally.

      He said that “promoting the political participation of women” and “ending violence against women and girls” have been two of the main objectives of his work.

      “Attaining gender equality is essential to achieving the Sustainable Development Goals,” he said.

      POLITICALLY EMPOWERED WOMEN HAVE FUCKING RUN EUROPE INTO A SHIT HEAP SO LETS GIVE THEM EVEN MORE POWER

      97% OF ALL MAJOR INVENTIONS WERE MADE BY MEN BUT EMPOWERING WOMEN IS CRITICAL FOR DEVELOPMENT?

      http://www.newkerala.com/news/2016/fullnews-102843.html

      “To mark the International Day of the World’s Indigenous Peoples, senior United Nations officials are calling on Governments to improve access to education and ensure that the most vulnerable are not left behind”

      TRANSLATION: STEAL MORE MONEY FROM WHITEY

      “In some countries, less than 40 per cent of indigenous children attend school full-time. In many others, few indigenous children complete a full high school education. We will not achieve the Sustainable Development Goals if we fail to address the educational needs of indigenous peoples.”

      WHY THE FUCK IS IT WHITEY’S RESPONSIBILITY TO GET NON-WHITES THROUGH SCHOOL?

      “Indigenous peoples regularly face stigmatization of their cultural identity and lack of respect and recognition for their heritage and values, including in textbooks and other educational materials. Moreover, their marginalization is often compounded by language barriers as instruction is mainly in the national language, with little or no instruction in, or recognition of, indigenous languages”

      HOW COULD YOU HAVE A COUNTRY WITH MORE THAN ONE LANGUAGES BE FUNCTIONAL?

      “Indigenous knowledge systems hold many answers to mitigating the consequences of climate change.”

      IM SURE THE FUCKING 70 IQ MUD PEOPLE WERE ABOUT TO COLONIZE MARS BEFORE THAT EVIL WHITE MAN CAME ALONG AND TAUGHT THEM TO BUILD HOUSES INSTEAD OF MUD HUTS

      “high levels of illiteracy among indigenous women regrettably attest to the historical patterns of discrimination and exclusion”

      NO, YOU FUCKING DUMB CUNT, IT ATTESTS TO LOW IQ

      http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/08/08/ban-ki-moon-today-big-challenges-are-gender-equality-climate-change/

      http://www.amren.com/news/2016/08/reparations/

      BLACKS WANT FREE EDUCATION FOR LIFE, REPARATIONS FROM WHITEY GUARANTEED MONTHLY LIVABLE INCOME

      http://www.amren.com/news/2016/08/among-both-visitors-and-staff-national-park-service-looks-to-grow-diversity/

      NEW STATED STRATEGIC GOAL OF THE NPS IS TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF WHITE ADVENTURERS

      GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT THOSE WHITE PEOPLE

      GOTTA CULL THEIR NUMBERS

      ARE YOU GETTING THE FUCKING PICTURE?????????

      DIVERSITY IS WHITE GENOCIDE YOU DIPSHIT

      MINORITIES WANT TO DRAG SOCIETY DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF AN IQ OF 80

      WOMEN WANT TO DRAG SOCIETY DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF A GOSSIPPING HENHOUSE

      GROW THE FUCKING HELL UP

    • militarydeployed says:

      So “fuck-em” because you worked all your life and funded your own retirement. A military members pension is paid for by taxpayers dollars that support the DoD, so by fuck’em you mean fuck the military? Interesting attitude and outlook to have since you don’t fight for your rights and let others do it for you. Oh and military members pay taxes to so we work all our lives and risk our lives for our retirement….but fuck’em right. Way to be a winner, slugger.

    • I Nap Whenever I Want says:

      I’m one of the parasites you despise 🙂

      20 years in a municipal gig and now fully retired.

      My pension is federally guaranteed.

      In other words, the government will dip into your pocket to place into mine.

      Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Slappy.

  2. boyo says:

    8 trillion……that’s about $28,000 per man/woman/child in the US. ( assume 350 million population (nice round number-makes math in head more bearable) and when multiplied by $3500 gives 1.05 trillion.) In any argument not $3500 estimated per trillion per man/woman/child. a Trillion is too large to fathom for most. Most know what $3500 means to them.

    “In 2015, 7.2 million employees in the public sector belonged to a union, compared with 7.6 million
    workers in the private sector. ”
    per BLS
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf

    That means each of the 14.8 million union workers have been underfunded by more than $540,000 per union employee.

    • WhoWTFKnows... says:

      boyo. No, dividing up Government’s Mismanagement of Debt and placing it on Innocent Americans is absolutely incorrect. You need to place that entire Debt on the Congress men and woman who voted for these budgets. Tap their wealth not mine.

      That is an old hoax to try and make the American people responsible for what their shill politicians do at our expense. Take away the Congress and Senators pensions to fund that massive debt. Then see how they vote next go around.

      So the Senate consists of

      Republicans
      54

      Democrats
      44

      Independents
      2

      Total
      100

      House Reps consist of:
      Republicans
      247

      Democrats
      187

      Vacancies
      1

      Total
      435

      So $8 Trillion divided by 535 in Congress totals= $15 Billion per Government Shill creating the massive debt.

      Pay up bitches.

      ~WWTI. I do NOT owe any of that stinking debt. Go pound sand..

    • boyo says:

      Apologies 3k x 350million = 1.05Trillion.

  3. infiniti spiral says:

    Way off topic, i havent even read the article yet, but dammit, man. This nation of ours is hurt. Not in the “it’ll get better with time” sort of way, but more in the vein of “traumatic blood loss”. The proof is in the pudding. The same pudding that seems to always spill itself all over your brand new, made in indonesia, then marked up 300% t-shirt. We, the U.S., are not the world leaders, and i say, no country, or group, or individual, should ever gain that title. Those words, world leader, subconsciously, set everyone else up to follow said leader. We are a planet of sovereign citizens, living in sovereign states, that make up sovereign nations…We share this place, like it or not. So, you so-called elites can get over yourselves. You aint shit, you get the title of “elite” by giving it to yourself, which, in my town, means nothing. Weve become so stagnant, im talking to all the average joes and janes, in being involved with our idea of government, that weve literally handed the torch to these people. The same people who, right in front of our eyes, have turned a system “by and for the people” into an unstoppable colossus of red tape, all paid for by us, through taxes on the money you make, as well as whats left of that that you spend on anything else. Our money is given to them, then promptly wasted, and they come back with excuses…and whats the cure? more fucking money. I say again, leaders, we are not. If we ever want to earn, notice the word earn, anything close to a leadership role or a nation others strive to emulate, we gotta buckle down. We gotta make some hard and taxing (not literally) choices. We, us, the people here right now have to ask ourselves, if the choice came along, that would, in due time if we keep at it, start to turn against the waterfall were surely heading towards, would we sign on? I say im in, no matter how bad it hurts. This country was forged in blood and war, whats a couple of drops of sweat and “i cant afford the new iphone” in comparison? It doesnt have to be a violent fight, we escaped that bitch of a queen already, change for the good of our nation can be won through living and spending within our means (finger pointing at our cocksucking elected “officials”), and honestly just staying the fuck out of everyones elses business. Case in point…Your hypothetical daughters crying, you rush to her just in time to hear your neighbors daughter crying, who do you care for first? Yep, your neighbors daughter can fuck off…youve got your own little girl to worry about. Lady Liberty, people. Lets worry about our girl first

  4. Sgt. Dale says:

    Learn this term and repeat it to everyone you know.

    TOO BIG TO JAIL!!! TOO BIG TO JAIL!!!!!

    When the day comes the term you will remember is. SHORT ROPE TALL TREE!!!!

    Sgt.

  5. Bernard Madoff’s tribe still is in charge of your ives.

  6. WhoWTFKnows... says:

    But wait, the Post Office Employees Pensions are fully funded for the next 20 Years, I think, Flush with Billions of Tax Dollars. Guess who’s constituents those are? You guessed it, more free Sh!t army of Freeloaders, as the Post office is a usual dumping ground for washed up Vets who can’t get a job in the private sector.

    Postal Service Mail Carriers Start out at about $35K a year, and with time on the job, their pay increases to about $55K per year on average. With an annual salary of $44K. US Postal Carrier is the most common role for Postal Employees which transition into a Customer Service Supervisor role — which usually pays $37K

    So, If we take a look, at these numbers, and really think hard on this, What exactly does a Postal Carrier do for his Job and pay, compared to a regular Newspaper Boy making much less in Pay.

    A Newspaper boys wears their own street clothes, usually rides a bike, and throws the rolled paper onto the drive way once a day. The Postal carrier gets to wear a uniform, drive a jeep, and put the paper in a box on the side of the road once a day. Not much different really, other than the PO Employee is getting paid to put the paper in a box instead of throwing it on the driveway. And for that amazing skill set, the government postal employee gets paid about $40K more a year, with full health benefits and full lifetime pensions on top of the high pay compared to the News Paper Boy.

    So what did we learn today people? Answer is, that our Fat Over-bloated Government is Flat Broke and way over paid. Imagine getting a lifetime pension with full health benefits because you learned how to put paper in a box on the side of the road, instead of throwing it on the driveway. Only in Merica.

    ~WWTI…

    • anonymous says:

      The post office also generates their own money. They do not get any subsidy from the government. They are required to set aside 10 billions per year for the next ten years to cover their pension for the next 100 years. Let me know any other company required to do that. This is where the government will be dipping in for their slush funds. Don’t blame every so called government worker for all of the problems with the government debts.

      • Release says:

        You mean the same US Postal Service that has holdings in real estate? Which happens to be managed by Diane Finstiens husband? You mean that Postal Service?

        Hmmmmmmm, I wonder…

    • militarydeployed says:

      Got something against veterans asshole? Way to enjoy that freedom of speech and other rights without having to fight for them.

    • Kevin2 says:

      WhoWTFKnows

      $44K /yr is just a working wage. You advocating third world wages?

      Complain about Wall Street who’s function, by every indication is to liberate investors of their money to enrich themselves creating nothing of value in the process. You familiar with a gent named Jon Corzine?

      TPTB want the people to fight for the crumbs while they step the cake.

  7. infiniti spiral says:

    America, lend me your “rears”! Youre holding the dick that fucks you! Do something!

  8. Kulafarmer says:

    Locally our state government employee retirement and health benefit fund is UN FUNDED to the tune of 20,000,000,000
    Billion
    Thats a lot of zeros
    Wonder how they will make that up?

  9. Old Guy says:

    I could care less about some government employees pension. They are parasite takers. They produce nothing. They need to realize they are a luxury the few remaining producing makers can not afford. Too few makers and too many takers is not long term sustainable. Everyone has to cut back and tighten their belts. Why should they be exempt? screw them.

    • Yanon1 says:

      Senile Old guy – are all government employees parasites? What about forces personnel/wounded vets?

      Are they not entitled to some recompense for putting their lives on the line so that you can whine and cry while living a comfortable and safe lifestyle? Just what have you produced that’s so intrinsically useful to society?

      As usual, with old people, it’s all about their selfishness. You’re a baby boomer by the sounds of it. A child of the fifties/sixties who started this mess off! The original takers, never giving anything back and always blaming someone else for your failures.

      • rellik says:

        Military retirees and Vets are funded as part of the DOD budget every fiscal year. They may get their money, if we can keep Democrats out of the government. The article refers to Democrat states and cities that are broke due to Democrat policies. I’m a baby boomer. It is illegal for me to correct the problems you blame on my generation(s). I’m self sufficient, are you? Prepare for the worst, it is yet to come.

      • Old Guy says:

        Did they not get paid when they worked or served? it doesn’t matter what kind of parasite or how so called deserved it happens to be. Too many parasites will weaken and Eventually kill the host. Call me names ect. refute my post Explain how a lopsided ratio of too many Parasite takers and two few Producing Makers is sustainable? I suggest you read the book atlas shrugged.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Old Guy

          “Did they not get paid when they worked or served?”

          No. The pension is part of the pay. Promised benefits are not a gift, its their money. Its documented, signed, a legal contract; its is the rule of law.

          Too many takers will drain the system. Too little producers destroy the system. Warren Buffets secretary pays a higher tax rate than Warren Buffet who makes a considerable amount of money from investments that do nothing for American employment. Don’t bad;once the books on the back of people who worked and were not just promised but its part of their compensation.

  10. Middle class says:

    Is that why they are trying to kill off the old folks with Obama Care death panels, Chem Trails, dirty flu shots, etc?

  11. Kevin2 says:

    Old Guy

    I worked my entire adult life in the private sectors of Chemical & Oil Refining. I don’t have a stake in the public sector. This being said, until about a decade ago post NAFTA people working in government made less money than in public but had better benefits including a fixed retirement. I was fortunate to have spent 90% of my working years in oil refining and received a 6% contribution to my 401K which is the major component of my pension. Public sector people did not receive this.

    Regardless of the above a pension is nothing more than differed payment for time worked. You make $20 an hour and you expect $800 at the end of a full work week. Give you half of that and you have a legal system to right the wrong. A pension isn’t a gift any more than Social Security is.

    The fact is all of this is part of the great American decline complements of Free Trade deindustrialization. Workers making $28,000 yr don’t pay taxes like someone making $60,000 yr. People on public assistance EBT cards, mainly the working poor, went from contributor to recipient. Its all largely a product of the,’ “We’re Living Here In Allentown” of Billy Joel fame. The body politic are like rats, fighting each other over the remaining crumbs. This is just what TPTB want.

    • Old Guy says:

      Ive seen those those poor mistreated underpaid folks working in the goverment sector. most are lazy professional time killers. And if they don’t like the pay they can quit and go to work for someone who must show a profitfrom their labor. Naw they will not quit. because there isn’t anything that they could do that would make a private sector employer a penny. They may heve been promised $20 per hour but the lions share f them werent worth even five. And I am drawing a social security Ponzi check. And In a couple more years I will have got every penny I paid back. After I recoup my contribution and the share robbed from my employer. Every payment after that is indeed a gift. Dole welfare social engineering. Socialism always fails. Just you wait when the plug is pulled And those who don’t work & produce and don’t know how will not eat. A pension will be the least of anyones worries.

      • Kevin2 says:

        Old Guy

        Regardless the pension is part of their compensation. Its simple, I promise to pay, I partially pay, not paying the remainder theft.

        • Old Guy says:

          Boo Hoo a promise was broken. Life isn’t fair. If you expect fairness , justice ,and equality. boy are you ever going to be disappointed. The folks who worked public sector jobs in Illinois. voted for who ever promised the most money and benefits from the public coffers. Now the productive private companys have fled the high taxes. And that state is out of money. They pay the lottery winners with IOU,s ! The government elected officials and government employees have failed to be fiscally responsible. The taking parasites have run out of producing makers to robb from. So now those social engineering Ponzi schemes are failing. A promised pension is like paper Gold. If you cant hold it in your hand it doesn’t exist. And im thrilled & elated the chickens have come home to roost. Socialism always eventually fails. As Margret Thatcher stated They have run out of other peoples money.

          • Kevin2 says:

            Old Guy

            “Boo Hoo a promise was broken.” You do realize that is theft?

            “And im thrilled & elated the chickens have come home to roost.” Elated at the misery of working people who did not et forth the policy’s and conditions that has eviscerated US wealth creation? Elated that promised compensation is not forthcoming? Socialist policy like pensions aren’t destroying the US; Free Trade is destroying the US, wealth concentration is destroying the US. I rarely say this but, “What the fuck is the matter with you”?

            • Old Guy says:

              Yes socialisn destroyed the jobs. If not for socialist policy and demands by greedy unions& workers. The business climate in the USA wouldn’t have caused the cost of production to get high enough that companys where forced to relocate or go out of business. I will give one example that I know first hand about. Waterloo tool box company. In the 70,s that company moved its manufacturing from Waterloo Iowa to Pocahontas Ark. For the single reason the wages and benefits they where forced to pay in Iowa became exorbant. In Arkansas they got good workers for about 25% of the cost in Iowa. They operated in Pocahontas for 25 years. Expanded the plant. The the parasite socialist local elected officials decided that waterloo wasn’t paying their fair share. So they raised the water rates on the plant. and raised the property taxes. They did the same to Skill and TRW and some smaller companys also. And just like that the Companys left. Relocated to greener pastures or just quit and closed shop/ Waterloo abandoned a large building and let the city have it. So now its a declining place. And less revenue than before. The real fact is the consumers or in the case of the public employees. Could not afford to pay the cost of the high wages and cost of the pensions. Plainly put the taxpayers cannot be taxed (robbed) enough to pay for the public employees (promised) pensions. The taxpayers did not make that promise. The promise was made by elected officials who would say & do whatever was necessary to get elected and be reelected. The problem with socialism is the voters soon learn to vote themselves money goods & benefits from the public coffers. Nafta was viable because of socialism. If you can make something someplace else. And pay the extra cost of shipping and still sell that item for less and make higher profits Why not? if you don’t you will go broke. What actually happened was the socialist decided the USA middle class had more then their fair share. So the middle classes jobs where on purpose destroyed or sent to other places. Things like the 70,s fake gas shortage Osha, EPA and govt rules& regulations where put into place to raise the USA cost of production. And it was done on purpose by socialist. Nothing wrong with me. If you disagree with my message personal attacks don’t change the facts. Just refute this fact Too many Parasite takers and too few Producing Makers is not sustainable. All government spending is a tax on the producing makers. In order to pay public workers it first must be robbed (taxed) away from the producers. They have already run out of other folks money too spend. Not enough makers left to steal from. So they make up the difference by borrowing. That borrowed money is a tax of the futures producers. Of course our Grandchildren wont be able to produce enough to pay the debt. So yes for my grandchildrens sake im glad the chickens have come home to roost. Better for the socialist believers who where complicit in the Ponzi scheme to suffer the loss of pensions than the next generation of making producers to have It fosted off on them.

              • Kevin2 says:

                Old Timer

                “If not for socialist policy and demands by greedy unions& workers.”

                News Flash:

                The US Textile Industry paid $15 hr. Hardly high. It relocated to the third world to sub $1 hr virtual slave labor because tariffs were dropped. So $15 / hr is too much to pay. There is greed and its definitely at the globalist corporate level. You’ll find that those companies that left went to China and Mexico because of a pay scale unacceptable to a civilized nation as in the above example.

                The only thing keeping the US standard of living as falsely high is because the US dollar is the worlds reserve currency. In the absence of the gold standard and the US borrowing to pay its bills because of the deindustrialization US soldiers now maintain this at the point of a gun. They die to maintain that. This is why Iraq was invaded and Libya was overthrown.

                “Nafta was viable because of socialism. If you can make something someplace else. And pay the extra cost of shipping and still sell that item for less and make higher profits Why not? if you don’t you will go broke.

                “Why not?” Because you destroy the country. You eviscerate its manufacturing base. Thats why we had tariffs since the founding of the nation up until recently. The results are painfully obvious, very painfully. What does NAFTA and China Free Trade have to do with socialism? Socialists didn’t think it up. Tariffs protected civilized workers in the US and in Europe. NAFTA is Neo-Con Globalist crony capitalism, not socialism.

                • Old Guy says:

                  You fail to realize to a business the main objective is to derive a profit. So workers are viewed as a necessary tool. And if a machine can do the job and replace workers that’s what is done. On farms tractors and harvesters replaced horses and workers. production companys must produce at as low of cost of production as possible. At the present time there is a world wide glut of cheap labor. the really big companys are not local or even USA owned. They are international corporations and have no allegiance to the USA or any other country. they are in buisness to maximize profit for the stock holders. Its their money and investment they make the rules. Even without NAFTA the USA production jobs where in decline. The USA production was tied to the American auto industry. And the fake gas shortage in the 70,s was the beginning of the end for the USA big three auto makers. Even with the tariffs the well built gas sipping imports where a much better buy than crap cars like pintos & vegas. Too many consumers chasing too few goods. and too many workers chasing too few jobs. then the easy credit inflated prices for everything that fell under the umbrella of too few goods. Too many workers and too few jobs deflated wages. The social engineering expierment with the minium wage only caused more inflation and job loss. You cant legislate so called moral or ethical behavior. What Im trying to tell you When that gas shortage in the1970,s occurred the blue collar middle class was shafted. and that caused a decline that has been slowed by government spending. and like it or not those government pensions are a luxury that isn’t affordable any longer. And likely never was affordable. I don’t want the cost passed on to the futures producers. End it now for the sake of our grand children. You folks demanding the government fund your pension with borrowed money are stealing from the next generations. Propping up pension funds with borrowed money isnt a solution. Its just using social engineering to delay the inevitable.

                • Kevin2 says:

                  Old Guy

                  The US and other civilized nations had tariffs to protect its industrial capacity, the traditional wealth creator. Business interests bought off the legislature, tariffs dropped and manufacturing fled to nations paying workers poverty wages. Yes they are international business with no allegiance to a nation. Our politicians are supposed to have an allegiance to, “We The People”.

                  Free Trade has decimated the US and Europe with the notable exception of Germany and some of the aortic nations that have a small nich market of ultra high quality goods that China cannot yet successfully enter. These agreements destroyed not just the auto industry but a host across the board including Textile @ a whopping $15 hr. 1400 people at Carrier AC are the latest casualties. So much for worker greed being the cause. International business could manufacture all it desired in the 3rd world but with tariffs it would be to no avail. Hence business stayed here.

                  Interestingly US military personnel die for the globalist business interests to expand and protect it overseas cutting their own throats. As two time Medal Of Honor recipient USMC Major General said in his book, War Is A Racket, “I was a bully boy for Wall Street”.

                  The effect of the above put more people in poverty thereby increasing government dependence, lowered the tax base thus making the government pensions insolvent. My own wife, now a cripple, lost her workmen comp when they went bankrupt. They took payment for a promise that they chose not to deliver upon as the successor, Fiat, was absolved of the previous liability. Let me see you inherit a business and see if you avoid the baggage. You won’t because you cannot buy the authorities.

                  Having retired from the Oil Refining Industry gasoline and diesel fuel is, in real dollars, cheaper than it was in 1972.

                  The net effect of the above is the decline of the US. Its quite intentional in the grandiose scheme of international homogenization with the end result being, “One World Government”.

                • Kevin2 says:

                  My wife was a Chrysler Employee.

                • Kevin2 says:

                  “Nafta was viable because of socialism. If you can make something someplace else. And pay the extra cost of shipping and still sell that item for less and make higher profits Why not? if you don’t you will go broke.

                  Only in the absence of tariffs that the US had since the days of Thomas Jefferson until recently.

  12. aljamo says:

    I hope I die before I get too old, you know like over 70 or so. Forced vaccinations should cull the lot. By then able bodied codgers who can still walk will be living 20 to a 8×30 trailer. The old farts probably got it better in Mexico. No social security, no more old people. Besides the gooberment has not given a cola in 3 out of the past 5 years. Broke as a bloke in the smoke, what a joke.

    • Old Guy says:

      Heck Im 65 and can & do out work most guys 30 years younger than me. Im looking foreward to the new adventure. Ive got smart grandchildren. And they are being raised to know what it means to be white. They are being raised to know what it means to live in America. Im curious to see what kind of adults they become and what they do with their lives. I want to live as long as possible.

  13. Satori says:

    fascinating piece

    an “essay” just for Talon

    I think it’s safe to say Charles Hugh Smith has NAILED it

    The More the Establishment Freaks Out Over Trump, the More Attractive He Becomes

    h ttp://www.oftwominds.com/blogaug16/establishment-trump8-16.html

    “Dear pundits, flacks, hacks, sycophants, apparatchiks, toadies, lackeys, functionaries, leeches and apologists: we’re sick of you, every one of you, and the neofeudal Empire you support. We want you cashiered, pushed outside the walls with the rest of us, scraping by on well-earned and richly deserved unemployment. ”

    OUCH !!!
    now that’s gonna leave a mark

  14. swinging richard says:

    Promises were made that they knew would be impossible to keep. They got what they needed and now they owe you. If they do not pay, there is little you can do. They never intended to hold up their end of the deal.

  15. Barak Bahma for AntiChrist.

    ___

  16. Workin' Man says:

    Well, I guess the federal government will decide some day that we all have to “pay up” to ensure these folks get their promised pension payments.

    Can you say “higher taxes are the future”?

    • Kevin2 says:

      Workin’ Man

      “We”, is a relative term. Look at the concentration of wealth. Its far beyond the conservative 1950 when the highest tax rate was 90% above $400K year. That is about $8 million / yr today. Of course if you invested in business, that just so coincidently resided in the USA, that money was not taxable. Jobs were created, the, “rising tide raised all ships”. The system worked. Today the gains, by statute and regulation, go uphill. “We The People” argue over our diminishing share, blaming some SOB that a decade ago sweated their ass off to make $60K who now makes $18K and has an EBT card.

  17. Asshat says:

    Corporations and the gov are bleeding us all dry. They gotta take the $ before the great culling. Not gonna need pensions or private property because pussy cowards will give everything to tptb without a fight. Filthery will have the Supreme Court rule the individuals don’t have the right to firearms. They will then designate the postmaster to initiate the program to collect all guns. Any hold outs will be visited by police. If they refuse to comply willingly their property will be stolen through civil forfeiture. All this will be done without a shot fired. I know this will happen sooner or later because people won’t use violence on a mass scale against tptb for fear of dying in battle. People years ago would fight and die. They had balls and believed freedom was worth it. Pussy cowards now just wanna watch sports and drink beer and drive overpriced vehicles.

    • Old Guy says:

      There are a few that aint afeared of dying. It likely wont do any good. It dint do the native americans any good to fight and die. however we will die sometime. I liked the indian mantra. Today is a good day to die. If you have confidence of the existence of your soul to live after the physical body is gone you aint afread to die. Living and surviving & enduring and trying to do right and having a good core concept & live by a moral code is difficult. taking the government dole and going along to get along is the easy road. Dying is the easy part.

  18. Mr Smith says:

    The insurance corporations (Banker owned) have all the money they need to meet pension demands of the future and just need to reduce the number of uselss eaters as they call them on earth down to about half a billion.

    We just need a world war and MOSSAD/CIA are doing all they can to crete one and today they are giving terrorists in the Ukraine large amounts of plastic explosives to blow bridges in Crimea.

    Gods special people are not safe in Israel and we will do all we can to make sure they have access to underground bunkers based in the USA to protect them during any war because, well god wants is too look after his bankers

 

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