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    U.S. Secret Service Bans Sale of Silver and Gold Liberty Dollars on Ebay

    Mac Slavo
    December 17th, 2012
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (206)
    Read by 24,938 people

    In early 2011 Bernad Von Nothaus was convicted by the US government and identified as a domestic terrorist by Federal prosecutors for minting his own silver and gold coinage, and then offering those coins for sale to clients. He dubbed the  coins “Liberty Dollars” and by doing so brought upon himself the ire of the U.S. Secret Service, Federal Reserve and a host of other government agencies.

    According to the government, Von Nothaus was a counterfeiter, though he made no attempts to actually counterfeit U.S. currency, but rather, provide another mechanism of exchange through the use of precious metals.

    After Von Nothaus’ conviction, the Secret Service warned they would be confiscating all Liberty Dollar coins manufactured by Nothaus’ company, NorFed.

    Since the shutdown of VonNothaus’ operation, many of the coins have been offered for sale or trade on mega-auction site Ebay, and this week the Secret Service took action. They contacted Ebay, which in turn advised sellers of the coins on their site that they could no longer engage in the trade of silver coins with the Norfed Liberty Dollar hallmark:

    The United States Secret Service has requested the removal of all Norfed Liberty dollars on the eBay site as counterfeits. … Please do not relist this item(s). We appreciate that you chose to list this coin on our site and understand there was no ill intent on your part. Your listing fees have been credited to your account.

    There is nothing special about the Liberty Dollar coins other than the fact that they are pure silver; and, of course, that they actually have intrinsic value as compared to general circulation U.S. legal tender which is, by most accounts, essentially worthless in terms of metal value.

    The government disagrees with this argument, and in a press release issued by the US Department of Justice, said that the trade of such coins amounts to nothing short of terrorism because it poses a direct threat to the stability of the United States:

    Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism, U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country, she added. We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.

    The Secret Service has gotten involved in order to ensure buyers don’t get confused by thinking they are acquiring legal U.S. tender. Apparently they believe that someone who buys a silver coin for $35 may, in a state of confusion, then attempt to exchange it for a $1 soda pop in the open market.

    Today they are targeting the Liberty Dollar because it “represents a clear and present danger to the economic stability” of the United States. It wouldn’t be that far a stretch of the imagination to suggest the government could make the same argument for any mechanism of exchange or store of value, especially those which contain gold and silver.

    They confiscated gold in the 1930′s for much the same reasons. They may very well do it again, but this time you may be a terrorist if you have silver or gold coins at home when they come looking.

    Hat tip Steve Quayle

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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 24,938 people
    Date: December 17th, 2012
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    206 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. clint hospo says:

      got one of those love it. Just one.

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      • clint hospo says:

        I bet this coin would be taken from a gas station and give you 19 dollars back if you bought a 1.00 item. Off topic but important. Can you hear these idiots on FOX slamming our ar-15′s saying we don’t need them. Who paid off your thoughts or forcing your news station to say such things. I can’t believe it. Oriely was saying this and I think he doesn’t care but the news is forcing him to say such things I don’t know. This will not go away, it’s on. You took away auto guns and in CA and NY certain size magazines and these people need to stay out of our way.

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        • Kindle says:

          On Drudge report above an article titled “Dems target guns” they are showing a scoped bolt action rifle. Drudge is usually better than this.

          When they first started reporting on the shooting on Friday one reporter kept calling the Bushmaster a Bush Whacker. These people are clueless.

          Piers is really on a tear tonight.

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          • Be informed says:

            @ Kindle. That bag of monkey crap piers got his red baboon ass handed to him by that very intelligen gun rights spokeperson. He told morgan one of the reasons for the increased violence of these nut jobs is drugs. He said that back in the 1950′s and 60′s people could buy guns without any background check or anything, and this type of gun violence did not happen. Watch it on a rerun at 12:00 AM eastern time, piers got out debated by someone that knew a lot more than he does about anything.

            What the hell is this foreigner, this pile of contemptuous Atlantic Ocean wet back comes to this country and tries to make those in this country accept his country’s norms. Those in England have turned the people into creme puffs that would lose a war with Argentina should the Falkland Islands issue come up. Now this jackass wants to turn the entire country into a bunch of pacifists that are daily victims of criminals. This donkey dong piers wants a total ban on all guns so the criminals can establish one of the “worst blackmarkets” from the Mexican border ever in the U.S. of true assault weapons, the type that fire several hundred rounds a minute.

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            • Kindle says:

              I did see that. It shut his rant down. But he’s back on it. Donkey dong would probably wet his pants if he was ever confronted by a real American with a gun.

              I keep wanting to take a collection to buy tickets out of the country for all the people that don’t like America and think it has to change.

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              • Rick:) says:

                When the country was formed, the founders intended the ultimate power to be vested with the people. If the government is the only institution to posess guns, they are the only ones with the real power.

                This is not about hunting. It’s not really even about personal protection.

                It’s about the Constitution and who has the ultimate power and authority in this land. Period.

                After much thought, and epiphany, if you will. The common denominator with ANY anti-gun type is this; They are ALL statists. They believe in gov. They trust gov. They work for for gov. They think gov. is their backstop and will save them. The truly do believe Gov is where the power is vested. They are, truly, the galacticly ignorant. Not stupid, ignorant.

                My son got into a twitter argument with someone who wrote the following; ” in our modern world, we don’t have to worry about the government like they used to, so we don’t need the 2nd for that reason. Nothing is going to happen, we don’t need guns anymore”. and these people get to vote.

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              • Off topic, but bad news:

                Cheaper Than Dirt is suspending all online firearms sales:
                https://www.facebook.com/cheaperthandirt/posts/10151295765484324

                There are still alternatives (click my name up there, find relevant tweet), but for how long?

                I understand their decision, but it still sucks.

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            • Kindle says:

              In reality he is just another limp dick.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 2

            • ’bout time someone shut that pompous bag o’ wind up.

              In other good news, it seems that an off-duty cop used his gun to stop yet *another* mass shooting today – this time in San Antonio.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 35 Thumb down 2

            • AnonLegion says:

              LoL BI I am sorry but who ever the guy who handed morgan his ass, was wrong and giving false information, so he basically handed himself his own ass.

              ” He told morgan one of the reasons for the increased violence of these nut jobs is drugs. He said that back in the 1950′s and 60′s people could buy guns without any background check or anything, and this type of gun violence did not happen. ” If you check the link i have below it lists MANY times in the 50′s and 60′s children were shot in schools.

              http://southernoklahoma.com/schoolshootings/

              First recorded school shooting was in 1764. WELL BEFORE the 1950′s

              The first known mass shooting in the U.S. where students were shot, was on April 9, 1891, when 70 year old, James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary’s Parochial School, Newburgh, New York, causing minor injuries to several of the students.[30] The majority of attacks during this time period by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones.

              Look it up :) sorry but history is history not some guys idea of what it was so he can make a point.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 12

              • Be informed says:

                @ AnonLegion. I think what he meant was the shear volume of gun violence in comparison to now. I know growing up that guns were just not a problem like today, which means that society is to blame, not guns. This gentleman really did make other good points. The point that I make is what is someone from England messing around with the U.S. That piers morgan characater says that he doesn’t want to interfere with the 2nd. Amendment, but just a week ago he said he would want to get rid of all 300 million guns in the U.S.

                I become so upset because these retards want to ultimately take away ALL self defense, even stun batons, pepper spray, knives, clubs, anything that might hurt the criminal scum. This upsets me to think that some helpless women or elderly person is powerless to defend themselves against pure evil that would hurt or kill them. It is wrong, it is unfair, it it empowering evil. That horse nut piers morgan lives in a sheltered protect life and has not faced the crime life of those not privileged to live behind locked gates and armed guards protecting their baboon ass.

                Sorry, Anon for getting so upset, but I just cannot stand it when someone wants to take away our protection against the evil that would do us harm.

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        • Estamos Jodidos says:

          I need my assault weapons! I need the for my own personal protection! Protection? Protection from whom?!? Protection from those who would take them away!

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          • Revsuzanne says:

            In the democrat/fascist mindset, all guns are assault weapons… they would outlaw sticks if they could.

            True “assault rifles” are the ones like our military carry… selective fire from one shot per trigger squeeze to having the bullets rain as long as you hold down the trigger. These things are already heavily regulated… regular folks can’t get them without a class 3 license. Please take time to differentiate this stuff for any idiot that needs it. Educate these statist twerps.

            The other thing… all the MSM news outlets are content controlled by the same regime… forget about the spin or rhetoric. No difference between them same as there is no difference between democrats and republicans.

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        • Dboy says:

          “Can you hear these idiots on FOX slamming our ar-15′s saying we don’t need them. ”

          YES I did see that this evening and was surprised at first. It makes sense though. They want to create messaging that causes people to form the opinion that gun confiscation is “reasonable”. And all media sources will be used to do this. O’Reilly is being a good soldier and feeding out the propaganda…that’s his job, apparently.

          Dboy

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          • Angelo Mysteriouso says:

            Don’t be shocked if This or similar is whats really being played out. Especially on FAUX tv news shows.

            ALL fox neocons want bush taxcuts prolonged etc. Hobammy wont budge and says NO!

            Spineless repubs like bhonier et al KEEP playing into dems agenda. But in form of “compramizes” to get taxcuts.

            Finestien keeps use of usa tax $$$ to ARM with FULL auto ar’s ALL citizens of her tribe in Isreal, while demanding bans on Our semi autos and all guns.

            Shes in senate and many neocon senators are “Moderates”=Code for globalistic Libs=even More spineless!

            HUGE SNAG! us reps/house has aprox 90 tea party proguners.

            Never will they pass antigun crap(we hope!) BUT! what if to offer “Plausabile” cover to tea party repubs and progun types in House.

            They pull a swindle and all a sudden we hear soon how Progun reps/repubs “Agree to Taxbill Compramizes” by caving to allow “Some” antigun crap to pass in house of reps.

            Expect to soon see and hear Rubio et al go on faux tv and try to convince us all how they are sooooooo progun!

            BUT!!! HOWEVER!!! due to the “Fiscal Cliff” we hear of non stop for months now its too serious to not “Compramize” with antigun trade offs etc!

            Because unless some type crap as this is done none of them tea party wonks will get re elected as dog catcher anywheres in amerika for such a compramize.

            UNLESS! MSM incessantly reports how a Vast majority of progun repub voters AND tea party supporters agree fiscal cliff is MORE serious than 2nd amendt and who needs those type guns anyways.

            Funny how to get elected so many former never elected folks prior, we seen non stop tea party candadits all over tv.

            Since they got elected in 2010, How many has appeared to inform us of Their progress etc?…NONE but a couple like their new “Darling” future prez Rubio(who like hobammy is NOT a natural born citizen, but had TWO Cuban Parents when born as an Illeagle here!).

            just wait and see if this or a similar issue begins as soon as the current scare tactics end and they get “serious” on Finestiens zio jew antigun agenda again!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        • lower40 says:

          the part i dont uderstand is ,”people dont need AR’s” who the hell do they think they are , im a born free grown man,you arent my mommy billy boy turn coat,i dont need some one to tell me what size of drink i should have ,or even if i decided i wanted to smoke , or how many sqaures i shoud use to wipe my ass ,what! you think that couldnt happen ,if some cry baby tree hugger decided we should ration paper ,beleive me brothers ,its a snow ball ,once it starts rolling ,it wont be stoped ,and its been a rolling for quite a while

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        • John Q. Public says:

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        • JustMe says:

          The people of this country are going insane.

          http://news.msn.com/us/at-least-4-dead-in-apparent-colorado-murder-suicide

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

        • Stoneage says:

          This is exactly why they are targeting these coins and Bernard is in Jail. He even took the Liberty $ TO the Fed and asked if it was objectionable in any way.. They said no. Why do I know this – because Bernard is a friend and he told me this at dinner one night. I support the Liberty $ – even have a few lying around. No the US government cannot have my property – they have already stolen it from Bernard’s warehouse in Cour De Laine Idaho. I still have the certificates for the silver.

          Yes, the Liberty $ poses a threat to the FED.. It could put them under. After all – Many stores WERE taking it. Problem was that SOME tried to deposit into their bank accounts and the two currencies are not compatible. You couldn’t put Francs into your US$ account now could you… And the banks wanted nothing to do with the currency.

          I think that there ought to be some one else that continues this. Real siver and gold is what the big guy calls for as just weights and measures along with wheat corn beans honey and oil.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Be informed says:

        @ Everyone. I am getting a little sick and tired of people like JoeinNC calling all of us names and referring to us a gun nuts (only caring about our firearms) and not caring about the victims and these poor little children that were massacred. I want a show of hands from everyone that if there was some psycho that was going to kill a bunch of innocents, especially children, that if you had a firearm you would try to stop the demon. I know my hand went up, and I can just see everyone else’s hands going up. Stuff that one JoeinNC.

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        • Kindle says:

          http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/cbi-deals-with-massive-influx-of-potential-gun-buyers/

          Way to go Colorado. We aren’t dumb kool aid drinking sheeple.

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        • Walt Kowalski says:

          That’s what guys like JoeinNC do……’cause that’s all they got.

          Ever notice that he never makes a logical argument to support his position? Nope. He just attacks the people who post on this site.

          Joe is probably some kind of leftist, focus group plant. He probably trolls this site…and possibly others, for the express purpose of derailing topics and stirring up trouble.

          He’s just your garden variety troll. Other than taking an occasional shot at him, you can pretty much ignore him. Pay about as much attention to him as you would a screaming 2 year-old in a restaurant.

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          • Gregory8 says:

            Be Informed & Walt: JoeinNC is just another liberal freightend of his own shadow. Like most liberals he’s never been in the military or been a cop. I’ve been both and I still carry. He and others of his ilk are either too weak morally or physically to muster the strength to defend themselves so they count on those of us who do have the courage and the training to do so. It must be terrible live in constant fear and to have to rely on real men and women to protect them. Joe’s comments are those of an hysterical child, pay him no mind.

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        • sixpack says:

          I’ve been going back over JoeinNC OLDER posts. It appears to me that he changes his stance on issues often. I respectfully submit that he is NOT using his 1st amendment right to contribute, as much as he is using it for cover to continue insulting others on the site. JoeinNC hasn’t really contributed much of anything in all of his posts combined. I submit that he is only agitating here, and verbal assault is not protected under the first amendment, any more than yelling FIRE! In a crowded building, or threatenng to kill someone is. But then again, I don’t see killing the momentum of trolls as a bad thing.

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      • Revsuzanne says:

        I just got some of the “Liberty Dollars” in my monthly purchase pile of assorted silver one-ounce bullion rounds… I didn’t know the origin. I like them well enough! Silver is silver… and it is our last and best investment opportunity before the financial splat hits. Those of us who bought silver will be well rewarded, and probably soon… it already looks like the decoupling from the paper futures market is coming soon. I have one silver merchant that can’t seem to get inventory these days.

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        • MadMarkie says:

          @ Revsuzanne -

          It’s just like the banksters lend out $90 for every $10 that you deposit. There are so many ‘short’ contracts out there on silver, bets that the price of silver will fall lower, that the PTB will NEVER be able to cover them all. There is no way that there will ever be enough physical silver to cover all the paper silver that they have sold.

          Silver is getting ready to ‘bust-a-move’, price-wise, right after the first of next year. Get it now or forget it. You won’t be able to afford it after the coming adjustment.

          American Silver Eagles make great stocking-stuffers. I know that ALL the family members who have been receiving them from me since their first issue date in 1986. And please, go the extra mile and spend the lousey $1.50 for an airtite plastic case to keep the coins in pristine condition.

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          • Bill says:

            You sound just like my son… Why the heck can’t I touch them and hear them clink together. I like to carry one at all times but a hand full of them makes me feel like a pirate.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      • RickInOregon says:

        If your going to piss in someone’s pool then piss under water and not from the side of the pool.

        Last year I read an article about barter communities and that some had created barter currency, they were shut down too. The IRS doesn’t like commerce without their taxation.

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        • Gregory8 says:

          RickinOregon: The last time these barter communities made the headlines, that I can remember, was during the Carter Administration when taxes we very high. But with the internet and younger people being tech savvy, they can do a lot more without getting caught. I’ve overheard many folks bartering goods for goods or services for services, or some combination thereof. And I’m even talking about medical professionals. Dentist needs some roofing and a roofer needs some dental work, guess what? Neither has to report income because no money changed hands and they both keep their tax liability down. Now of course this IS against IRS rules and must be reported but I realize that sometimes folks just sort of forget because of their busy schedules. And as taxes and regulations continue to expand, so will the barter community. Hurray for free enterprise!

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          • RickInOregon says:

            What I remember them doing was that they had a type of Farmers Market where they would trade barter currency for goods. The currency was generated by skill people agreeing on labor. Basically I could put my name/labor on five hours barter currency and anyone could redeem that labor and I would have to honor it. I could use that currency to buy produce from a farmer, he could redeem it with me or trade it for another type of labor currency such as auto repair, roofing, electrical, plumbing, dentistry…….

            With your roofer dentist example, if the dentist had 2 hours of left over roofer labor currency he could trade it for 2 hours of auto repair currency or a bushel of corn.

            They were creating their own economy independent of the US economy.

            They screwed up by allowing too many people in on it and they were infiltrated and disbanded.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

            • RickInOregon says:

              Addendum:

              If there is an economic collapse, the farmer market barter system would be something to look at. Learning bartering skill now may pay off later.

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            • MXLord327 says:

              I believe they were doing this in western Mass., they created their own currency called “Berkshire Bucks” named after the Berkshire Mountain Range. I haven’t heard much about it lately though, maybe the SS shut them down too.

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

              • Zoltanne says:

                MXLord327, Sounds good until you research it. Dig deep into Berkshire Bucks and you will find the Progressive ideology and Agenda 21 has become entrenched in the town. Their idea of ‘eat local’ and ‘local barter’ is about the UN’s Agenda 21.

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              • MXLord327 says:

                Zoltanne – I totally agree, I wouldn’t defend anything coming out of the people’s republik of Mass, just throwing it out there for knowledge sake.

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              • Zoltanne says:

                MXLord327, “..people’s republik of Mass..” That’s about right! Now where is our Teddy Kennedy….

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • geesh says:

          The moron would not have had a problem had he not stamped USA on it. He asked for it and he got it. You can make all the slver rounds you want…. apex does it…. lots of them do…. you cannot stamp USA on it, giving the illuion of a UNITED STATES monetary instrument. You fuckin people somtimes are so paranoid.

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      • ScoutMotto says:

        Got one too!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • NYC Monsters says:

        Everyone knows that Nothaus is a true hero. He pled NOT guilty all the way. No compromise with the Monsters. That takes guts.

        He should be bailed out of that hellhole he does not deserve just for his moral courage.

        As for his Liberty Dollars being banned, I think the numbskulls just did him a great service. The value of those coins is going to go UP, UP, and AWAY!

        In fact, anytime the idiot Fed monsters have banned anything – its value goes THROUGH THE ROOF.

        Instead of just allowing this currency to compete on the market, and letting people decide its value, they have created a MORE profitable black market for these coins.

        F-cking idiot monsters. What else can you expect?

        To be a Secret Service member requires that you be a FLUNKIE in third-grade mathematics and reading.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

      • Jezebel says:

        Two statements caught my attention:
        “The government disagrees with this argument, and in a press release issued by the US Department of Justice, said that the trade of such coins amounts to nothing short of terrorism because it poses a direct threat to the stability of the United States.”
        “Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism”

        In recent months both Hillary Clinton, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have said that our national debt is a matter of national security and this debt is a threat to our national security. It follows logically that the president, and all of the Congress critters should be arrested and tried for economic policies that undermine our national security, the very thing that von Nothaus was found guilty of.

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      • MrApple says:

        You must be a terrorist.

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    2. Gravlore says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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      • Kindle says:

        I have bought & sold silver on ebay for years and am kinda tired of hearing about “fake” stuff on Ebay. Ebay has a very strict buyer protection program. A seller will get kicked off ebay permanetly for selling fake coins.

        If a buyer thinks they have bought something that is fake they simply file a claim with ebay. Ebay investigates and if it is found to be fake then the buyer automatically gets refunded by ebay. This takes places within days.

        Very very easy to file a claim (you simply push a button). Paypal will immediately freeze the amount of the claim in the sellers account until the claim is resolved.

        Stop drinking the kool aid.

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        • Gravlore says:

          Kindle, youtube is filled with fakes from e-bay. Just because you are honest doesn’t mean that everyone is. Buying from a reputable dealer is far better than dealing with e-bay. I have bought things from e-bay that are not as stated (leather coat was pleather etc) as have others obviously. The run around I got was not even worth the 60 bucks I lost. I wonder how many just say screw it and don’t bother laying a claim. E-bay does this to keep in good standing with the chumps. Haven’t used in 6 years and never will again.

          I don’t dislike your opinion but I disagree with it.

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          • Kindle says:

            uhmmm….if you got an item that was not as stated then this is the easiest & fastest to get a refund on. One of the choices on the claims is “item not as described”. Don’t bother with run arounds with the seller…go directly to Ebay claims and let them deal with it.

            I’ve bought and sold 1,000+ auctions and always had a very quick resolution to any problems.

            But….whatever…to each his own.

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        • ” A seller will get kicked off ebay permanetly for selling fake coins.”

          …is this before or after making a couple thousand bucks, then whipping out another fake account on someone else’s stolen credit card?

          Don’t get me wrong, eBay is good for a few things (if you’re careful!) But? Buying precious metals, gems, medications, and food from it probably isn’t something you’d want to do.

          Unless you can verify the stuff before you lay the money down, don’t buy it sight unseen.

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          • Kindle says:

            Odd Questioner,

            A couple of years ago, as a buyer, I did get caught up in one of these scandals on Ebay. I purchased 100 Franklin half dollars for $670 including shipping. After 7 days and not receiving it I filed a claim with Ebay for “item not received”.

            Ebey investigated and come to find out the seller had withdrawn the $670 from Pay Pal into their checking account immediately. Then they withdrew the money from the checking account. This is the part where normally you would just be screwed.

            When Ebay went to get the $670 from the sellers account there was nothing there but I still got a full refund for $670. Ebay ate the loss…and then went after the person. That’s the buyer protection progam. You’re covered just like with a credit card against fraudulant charges.

            I didn’t have to deal with the seller or any hassles…just pushed 2 buttons. They took it from there. I buy quite a bit on line and have not always had such luck. I bought a bunch of long term survival food on line and when I got it not everything was there. Many phone calls and lots of hassles later..because their invoice said I received it, I lost. I never did get the missing items or a refund.

            I have bought $10,000′s worth off Ebay and have sold $10,000′s and have never gotten screwed because of their Buyer & seller protection program. Yes, I did have to file a claim but I’ve always gotten a full refund.

            Just my 2 cents worth.

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            • That’s the thing – you yourself may have done well, but the scammers are still out there, and still quite active.

              I’ve been on eBay since 1999 or so, and have bought and sold some moderately big-ticket items (usually discontinued and rare datacenter/server equipment) on it. On the other hand, I always kept constant communication with the buyer/seller at every stage of the process, always provided/demanded what Rawles recently coined as ‘proof of life’, and in general? I never, ever bought anything unseen.

              All that said, I refuse to buy (or sell!) certain things on it because, quite frankly, the potential is too great for scams (on either end!).

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

              • whoisbiggles says:

                Silver scams include using the word layered silver or the word mils on the coin.

                I recently purchased some “fake” made in China Northwest Terriotorial Mint bars. To the uneducated identical to the genuine product. Bought the 6 bars at 0.99 each plus total postage of 2.50. They might come in handy one day.

                But for real purchases I’ll stick with bricks and mortar dealers.

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          • dwizzle says:

            Dude, eBay is a VERY safe place to buy Precious Metals. I prefer it. Buyers are ALWAYS protected on eBay as long as they pay with PayPal. APMEX is even on there now offering really good prices.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • JustOneGuy says:

          @ Kindle,

          OMG, Look, several weeks ago ZeroHedge was SCREAMING about a bunch of New Yotk gold dealers getting scammed by REALLY good serial numbered Bullion bars…tunsten filled, almost perfect. The only way it got figured out was purely by chance…one of the buyers cut through a bar which had cost him over $100,000 and found that it was FILLED with base metal.
          Within a week they were finding all kinds of supposedly proof, minted forgery’s of all kinds of coins as well. Turned out there are actual Chinese company’s who SPECIALIZE in exactly this….making perfect reproductions of legitimate coinage. Go back several weeks ago at the ‘Hedge to find where those are.
          You NEED to get all such in to someone who can actually X-ray those….apparently they were mass produced…in the millions!!! And yes, X-ray is the ONLY way to know…industrial, high-energy X-ray. Good Luck.

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          • Kindle says:

            The buyer would still get a full refund if they file a claim. I never buy bullion or proof coins. Only the old stuff.

            If you buy something and it turns out to be fake or not as described and you file a claim you are covered.

            This is like so many other topics where people disagree. Both sides will present tons of proof and evidence supporting their position..but in the end, usually….people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless…

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            • JustOneGuy says:

              Hiya Kindle,

              Understood, E-Bay will stand behind thier ‘vetted’ transactions…not the point however.

              The point is that the forgery’s done were very, very good. GOOF enough to fool various New York ‘district’ metal’s/jewelry buyer’s…that like trying to fool the crowd of Gassidic Jew’s down in the Diamond district; t’ain’t done…yet they did pull it off.

              And they pulled it off so well that none of the normal test including any specific gravity, or sonic testing was unable to detect the difference. What Imean by this is; “How would YOU convince E-Bay that you had been defrauded? This is a SERIOUSLY ‘Grey’ area….buy from a reputable source at this point…or not and take the risk. Just sayin’…

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

              • JustOneGuy says:

                Correction; …

                “The point is that the forgery’s done were very, very good. GOOD.” Bad keyboard!!, Bad, bad… :)

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              • Kindle says:

                I’m very aware of all the forgeries….that’s why I don’t buy bullion or proof coins.

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              • Kindle says:

                JOG, apologies if I came across as rude and unappreciative. I sincerely do appreciate your insight and looking out for people.

                Please don’t send me to the dog house….it’s cold out there…and and and there’s coyotes out there…and and big ole ferocious racoons….and and and smelly skunks that insist it’s their house….and and and things that go bump in the night….and and and there might be one of those scary prepper people out there that have a a a a a a gun.

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              • Smokey says:

                It’s not just modern coins, they are faking valuable collector coins as well. A dealer showed me over $9000 in fake coins a few months ago. We examined them under a lens and I could not tell the difference until he showed me how to spot the traces of wear that would be on a genuine 100-year old coin, even one in BU condition.

                They’re all Chinese in origin.

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            • Gregory8 says:

              Kindle: Old stuff is your best bet as the Chinese have really infiltrated the market, including fake Morgan Silver Dollars. We’re all going to have to become experts to avoid getting burned.

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          • Merree says:

            Actually ultrasound will show if a bar is fake. The bar will have a noticeable shell around a core. Ultrasounds are available in hospitals and some doctor’s offices. Last I looked, some used ones were available for around $500. It seems that someone could even create a small business verifying purchases for folks.

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        • The Old Coach says:

          Which is why I quit selling anything at all on evilBay. The most dishonest people on evilBay are the buyers, not the sellers. They buy something, you deliver it, then they file a complaint, never return the merchandise, but Paypal drains the money from the seller and gives it to the dishonest buyer. Guilty until proven innocent is the rule, not the exception. It’s a racket I can live without.

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          • Kindle says:

            More and more this is true. I never ship anything without a tracking number and proof of delivery. I got a refund because the person could not provide a tracking number.

            I have gotten taken a couple of times by evil buyers…I then block them from buying from me again. You can also file a complaint and get them banned.

            But, net net, there are a lot of dishonest people out there and it is buyer beware.

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      • Wilson says:

        some ebay crap may be fake but is it any more fake than Federal Reserve Notes????

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    3. Gravlore says:

      “Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism, U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict.”

      LEGIT? LOL. I gotta tell my wife this one.

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      • Kindle says:

        “Today they are targeting the Liberty Dollar because it “represents a clear and present danger to the economic stability” of the United States.”

        What about all the money printing & digitizing…that is the real danger to our economic stability. But that is OK because it’s the gov or bankers….this other stuff is bad (because they can’t control it).

        It’s all about control.

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    4. Nailbender says:

      Bill O’Reilly is knowledgeable for half of his show he referred to the rifles as AR-47′s!

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    5. durango kidd says:

      After finally seeing photos of the back and front of this coin, I see where he crossed the line. He called it a “dollar coin” and printed USA on it as if it were a US coin.

      He should not have put a “dollar value” on the coin either. If the coin is one ounce of pure silver, or .9999 fine, he should have just stated the weight and purity of the “Liberty Medal”.

      Render unto Caesar …..

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      • Ted Kennedy says:

        I agree, he called it a coin.

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        • Jim says:

          Actually a dollar coin or 20 dollar coin not just coin.

          Someone should mint an ounce of silver and call it 20 Rnds as in 20 rnds of 223.

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      • Gotta disagree. I have Chuckie Cheese tokens in the Kid’s Box in my bullion store that have $1 on them. Lots of gift certificates say, $20 and no one confuses them with fiat currency. Only an idiot would confuse one of these coins – complete with their phone number and web address – as US currency.

        This was a bitch-slap from the feds to let others know who’s still in charge, and to not rock the boat too wildly.

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        • Depends. They actually have regulations for that type of thing:

          http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=busGuide&sub=busReplicas

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          • GregorKlusar says:

            I am confused. Did the government ban the sale of legal U.S. silver currency on Ebay? Or did they just ban a “replica” silver coin?

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            • durango kidd says:

              Gregor: It is not a “replica” of any silver coin I have ever seen. If you produced a perfect “replica” it would still be a forgery as individuals are not permitted to mint US coins.

              Having said that, unlike paper dollars, gold or silver coins could probably be “replicated” produced from bullion, and introduced into the system while no one would be the wiser for it.

              Given the premium for stamped metal coins over bullion I would not be surprised if someone wasn’t producing their own “replicas”.

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        • durango kidd says:

          Chief: Agreed no one would mistake a $1 coin or $20 gift certificate for US coin or currency. But some people would mistake his metal coin for a US coin and therein lies the rub.

          My comment about his labeling his coin with a “dollar value” was not so much about the “dollar value” but really about him valuing the one oz of silver, when the value constantly changes.

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      • Highspeedloafer says:

        Exactly Dk, I have many many silver rounds I have collected through the years at conventions and metal detector hunts. They look like a silver dollar, but thats as far as it goes. I can still get the going rate for an ounce of silver though.

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      • Gravlore says:

        .999 fine but who’s looking. .9999 are Canadian Maples. The eagles are and inferior .999

        Just tha facts. Silver is not silver unless it is the purest IMO. Junk is….well, junk.

        Man I will get some haters today, but opinions are like belly buttons or in todays lingo, useless diplomas.

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      • Bob says:

        They reamed him because he made it look too much like a US coin. Can’t have people thinking US currency is actually worth something now, can we?

        The “ligitimate” currency has at least a little value as long as people will give you something for it. The Treasury dept. was afraid people might start asking for this $20 coin instead of a FRN. Which would you rarher have?

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      • eeder says:

        @dk, i do agree with you on this one. with the usa and dollar on it , it crosses the line. If this was the property of a company as opposed to a central bank, there is no question that company would sue very quickly and harshly for this type of infringement.

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    6. wnc mountainboy says:

      Gub’ment gettin’ more draconian by the day…keep your powder, beans and rice dry…and your shiny stuff hidden!

      5.56/.223 has been expensive for a long time now…going to get even higher very soon.

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    7. crackerjack says:

      Im ok with this…
      You dont get to just print your own money….
      What does he think he is, the us guvmint?

      The whole problem stems from the fact that he put a denomination on it

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    8. KY Mom says:

      Things seem to be moving along at a faster pace. Renewed vigor and focus on banning guns and now sales of Liberty gold and silver coins banned on Ebay.

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      • Kindle says:

        KY, I agree “things seem to be moving along at a faster pace”. But is any of it a surprise? Some who have really studied the NWO, elite, agenda 21, etc would say “what took so long”, others are saying it is coming on line faster because the above are getting nervous because people are really beginning to wake up.

        I haven’t really joined in the expressed anger the last couple of days regarding them wanting gun control because my extreme anger was years ago when I first got clued in. I was angry & disgusted for months then got my head cleared and started formulating my plans for how to prepare for all this.

        I’ve been expecting & waiting for all this bunk to come into play. My emotions lately have been “OK, it’s here, what do I need to do”. I’m weirdly calm…my extreme emotions were years ago when I first discovered the betrayal.

        My dad told me 40+ years ago if you are ever in a fight the one that can control their emotions and keep a clear level head has a better chance of winning. It’s kinda my motto.

        Now, I’m just trying to stay a couple of steps ahead of “them” by watching and anticipating their next move.

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    9. FreedomLover says:

      I never expected things to move this quickly. I’ve followed this site for a while… Scary. Wish I could have been more prepared for all of this.

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    10. Dr. J says:

      I agree with KY mom.A crackdown is coming. Be ready!

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    11. Eisenkreutz says:

      Shouldnt the Secret Service pigs be somewhere spending our tax money on underage Columbian prostitutes?

      Rot in hell you filthy vermin.

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    12. John says:

      “Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism, U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict.”

      And yet every member of the federal reserve is still running loose.

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    13. A great essay over at Zero Hedge on our current manufactured materialistic prison… Worth the read and partly on topic to this article..

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-17/hey-you

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      • TheGuy says:

        I have to agree with most of it.

        … I also have this sneaking suspicion that the author is a Boomer. It has this “hippy” tone to it.

        At which point there’s a slight cloud of “stop being so materialstic so there will be more left for me” attached to it. Boomers were masters of this. Locusts man.

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    14. Be informed says:

      Something that a lot of people don’t realize is that you can purchase industrial based precious metals. Gold is used in dental work for example and electronics. Silver has many different uses, so does plantinum as these are excellent conductors of electricity and heat. The price I heard is about the same ounce for ounce, but this is one way you can kind of backdoor the state. Many scrap pieces of precious metals are for sale all the time.

      You can sell pieces of precious metal and barter with them after ande before SHTF. I still say that the best money you can have is exactly what people will use, like food, fuel, ammo, etc. Is it my imagination, but people after this disaster seem to be totally on edge, even when they are driving?

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      • gardenia says:

        @ Be Informed

        Yes, I have noticed that people have become high-strung recently. I guess I don’t blame them. I, myself, have
        become a bit skittish & I hate to admit it.

        ~ ~ Gardenia

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    15. braveheart says:

      I find it interesting that they use the terms “legitimate currency” and “economic stability”. On the first item, only Congress is supposed to have control over our currency, it’s supposed to be coins and NOT PAPER according to the Constitution. On the second item, our economy has been unstable since the Bush era; the cost of creating DHS and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were hurting the economy before the crisis in 2008. Under that EO Obamanation signed, National Defense Resources Act, the feds can supposedly take anything we the people have, including food and water supplies, for the ALLEGED ‘greater good”. These socialistic terms make me want to puke. If they can confiscate gold, silver, etc., besides guns, what could be next? I’ll keep saying it; DON’T COME TO MY HOME TRYING TO TAKE ANYTHING I HAVE IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE! best wishes to all. Braveheart

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      • NCClyde says:

        braveheart, our economy has been unstable since 1913, long before either Bush took office, although the current situation is the worst it’s ever been.

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      • TheBlack says:

        You try carrying around $100,000 in gold and see how far you get.

        I can understand the need for ‘paper’ money… It is lighter and easier in terms of transactions.
        You can’t deal with todays transactions in physical Gold or Silver.
        The amounts of money would equal several hundred kilograms of metals.
        I’d like to see your pockets hold up to that :p

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    16. CocoPuff CrackHead says:

      ” DON’T STEAL … THE ZOG FedCommieGov DOESN’T LIKE COMPETITION !”

      ~N.O. ;0p

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      • snake eater says:

        coco fag head
        i forgot to tell you krout arse i`m a JEW,,,but then on the other hand so was your mama

        snake

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        • CocoPuff CrackHead says:

          Neonatal Herpes Simplex Virus Infection Following Jewish Ritual Circumcisions that Included Direct Orogenital Suction — New York City, 2000–2011

          http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6122a2.htm

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        • Facebook Page says:

          Nina Y0u must not being cencored anymore. Or the target sight you use to scare people would not of gone though moderation by Mac.

          I guess you are allowed to threaten again.

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          • Facebook Page says:

            You are still in the “Group” here. My posts that defend me are not allowed or take to long to be allow though moderation.

            Still you brought it down a notch your input has been good and at least tolerable. But when there has been no attack on you. You go straight to the gutter. And that is what takes all creditable away from you.

            Snake may have let you know where he is. But remember I know where you really are. Should I Forward that to snake. Or any of the other that you insult by being you.

            And your issue with gays and Jews are just getting old.

            And it doesn’t matter I am not a Jew.

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    17. Timothy says:

      Unprecedented Powers for Warrantless Surveillance

      The National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) amounts to a sweeping database housing information and surveillance records of people the government suspects have ties to terrorism. It is a horrendous monstrosity of Orwellian proportions.

      And it just got worse. As a meager restriction on its assault on the Fourth Amendment, the NCTC, was previously supposed to immediately destroy intelligence information about Americans when there were no clear ties to terrorism. But now, the Obama administration – without any public debate or transparency with Congress – has granted new powers to the NCTC.

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    18. Niner X-Ray says:

      Barely six weeks into the media’s gloating over Messianic Second Coming and the real “assault” against the Constitution is not even taking a holiday off.

      I am still taking Pepto from the Nov 7th morning news. I should say, “mourning” news.

      Oh man is this going to be a speedy roller coaster ride!

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    19. braveheart says:

      BI, I’m with you about JoeInNC and all his crap; he might be good for some target practice, but nothing else. I’ll take Coco over JoeinNC any day; at least most of his comments do make some sense and he never insults anyone else on here. KY Mom, I agree there’s a crackdown or something not far off now. I have this sense of impending doom coming to this land; I can feel it and I think it’s on the horizon. I’m speeding up my prepping; I think the sand in the hour glass just built up some speed since the Sand Hook shooting. I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect January will be SHTF time; right after Obamanation’s 2nd inauguration. Everyone get your supplies now while you can. Has anyone heard anything about a new tax on ammo starting in February? I heard it from a coworker Saturday and couldn’t find anything online about it. Any info will be appreciated. Also, has anyone heard from Copperhead? he hasn’t been on here for some time. Hope he’s allright. Braveheart

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      • Be informed says:

        @ braveheart. There are some mighty good people on this site that risk their lives to save innocent children, and when someone like Joe degrades them it ticks me off. I hear so much outpouring of deep honest sympathy from so many, but also the need for protection to prevent the nut cases and evil criminals from making more victims of innocents. Then I hear this garbage from individuals that believe that we all are some sort of monsters for trying to protect our self defense to PREVENT the evil from doing this to our families and those around us. I have said this before, you have to have as much distance between an attacker and you to avoid serious injury or death, that comes in the form of a firearm.

        Braveheart, I had a strange thought about bad events coming in threes. This seems to occur a lot, not always. Hurricane Sandy, Sandy Point school, where’s the next disaster with a Sandy in the name? Eerie disturbing thought isn’t it.

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    20. Timothy says:

      Something going on with the site? I can access it from my mobile but pings time out from PC.

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    21. Jack says:

      Sorry, but this time the Feds may be right. This dummy shouldn’t have put the term “Dollar” or the $ on his coins, nor should he have ascribed a value of $20 to the coins.

      The Liberty Dollar name may be copywrited too.

      The domestic terrorist charge is a joke though….if he’s a domestic terrorist, then what is the Federal Reserve?

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    22. Kindle says:

      MK Ultra??????

      On True TV Jesse Ventura’s episode on mind control and MK Ultra was on tonight. I did not know about Qwen towers but they overlayed a map of where these towers are located with a map of incidences of people reporting to be mind controlled.

      I usually don’t buy into conspiracies without doing a ton of rearch on my own but this show presented some information I had come across before.

      Interesting. MK Ultra. Must do more research. I’ve heard it mentioned on this board lately. Anybody know more about it?

      “Everything old is now new”.

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      • afterthefallpa says:

        The theory that the gov’t has been using different forms of mind control to control people as well as to create unknowing human weapons has been around since before WWII.
        Sirhan Sirhan shooting RFK for example. It is a verified Gov’t/military “experiment” but conveniently the documents concerning the operation were destroyed.
        There’s lots of info about it all over the web. Just check out wikipedia.

        And watch “The Manchurian Candidate” with Frank Sinatra

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    23. I LOVE STUPID PEOPLE says:

      WHY I LOVE STUPID PEOPLE…

      They don’t by metals…so I got them cheaper.
      Same for all prepping items.
      It will be so much easier to make money off them when the dollar crashes with my .com sites. Stupid people and their funds are soon parted.

      The best we can do is just ignore all the media folks.
      They are all controlled by the jews.

      As for the blacks… don’t worry about them…they are getting watered down.
      A few more rounds and they will all be beige.

      Later guys.

      ps. Keep your powder dry, embrace liberty and keep buying metals…the dollar is

      SO FUCKED!!!

      Any idiot can see this.

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    24. Makes me curious as to whether or not one could make silver coins clearly stamped “not legal tender” and still be subject to seizure for introducing competing currency.

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      • geesh says:

        @SCHEMA——– you can make all the silver rounds you want legally…. just dont stamp USA or DOLLAR on them. The guy was an idiot. He wanted to take on the big boys. Guess what. He lost.

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    25. Boss Hog says:

      Ok lets see here guns and PMs in the same week, these guys are getting nervous. So who didnt see this comming?
      Im still jaw drop amazed at the tards preaching gun control, in CT of all places????? Yup thats what CT needs strickter gun laws? UmmmmWhut? Do they even have gun stores there anymore?
      Lets face it folks, the divide between those of us that see whats heading our way and those that embrace it(willingly or not)has grown exponentially and will continue to do so till they end up with a shovel in their hands loading their neighbor into a gas oven never once entertaining the notion that this may have happened before……..ahh whats the point. The history lesson is over.
      Yeah its time to brush up on the archery folks because you see whare this is going dont you?

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    26. GregorKlusar says:

      They are undermining the U.S Constitution directly by using a fiat currency, but they call us terrorist for owning/selling/buying a silver coin which is protected by the very same Constitution…

      The American Government is no longer American. It is an “alien” organization that has invaded our political system, brainwashed our people, and taken over the global market.

      It is led by greed, power and its only intentions are to benefit and protect themselves. They have a complete disregard for the rules and regulations that formed this country.

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    27. Grey Owl says:

      It didn’t take the political weasels long here.

      ‘Illinois Governor Quinn and Mayor of Chicago want assault weapons ban. Supt.of Police begs Ill. Atty. General to appeal the conceal carry ruling against Illinois.’

      They have nothing to worry about, all of them have armed body guard details following them around while the rest of the little people are fair game. The ones who need to protect themselves against the thugs are sh*t out of luck.

      Illinois is the only state in the nation to prohibit the concealed carrying of weapons in public,
      yet the compliant shamestream lapdog media we have here will NEVER print the fact that Murder City Chicago is almost at the 500 murder count for this year.

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-school-shooting-illinois-politicians-1218-20121218,0,5128691.story

      “Never let a serious crisis go to waste”
      Rahm Emmanuel.

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      • jayjay says:

        In Kentucky, one can open carry.
        True–check it out.
        Maybe that’s why I saw a list of state’s background checks last year.
        Ky population…4,500,000
        Ky. background checks….2,500,000

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    28. king krazy says:

      The secret service has a big pair of balls arresting this guy when the government passes out slips of green paper with a number on it and we are supposed to believe it is worth something. There is no doubt in my mind we will collapse soon and it was all planned.

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    29. CocoPuff CrackHead says:

      An American Drone Operator – a Must Read for Preppers . As one day you might just be “Hunted by One” in AmeriKa !

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html

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    30. CocoPuff CrackHead says:

      Phuck the Secret Service … IT WAS THE SECRET SERVICE THAT KILLED PRESIDENT J.F. KENNEDY america’s last real president IN COLD BLOOD FOR THEIR ILLUMINATI FREEMASON ZIONIST BANKER MASTERS !!!

      THE SECRET SERVICE DOESN’T EVEN WORK FOR THE PUPPET PRESIDENTS OF AMERIKA … THE SECRET SERVICE WORKS FOR THE ILLUMINATI BANKERS THE FEDERAL RESERVE , GOLDMANSACHS BANK , AND BANK OF ENGLAND ROTHCHILDS !

      THE SECRET SERVICE MAKES SURE THE PUPPET AMERIKAN PREZ’S DO AS THEIR TOLD OR ELSE … THEY DIE !!!

      IT’S THAT SIMPLE !

      ~N.O. ;0p

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5

      • eeder says:

        @N.O. , It most certainly is that simple. and it MOST certainly is that true. Jesuits do not take kindly to disobedience by their top puppets. It is intolerable to them and will and is quickly snuffed out.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    31. CocoPuff CrackHead says:

      Rethinking Education http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIva2she5HQ

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    32. JRS says:

      At the start of 1933, if a man had a pint of whiskey, he was an outlaw. If he had a gold coin instead, he was not. A year later, if he had a gold coin, he was an outlaw. If he had a pint of whiskey, he was not. The movie re-run has begun. Don’t forget your popcorn.

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      • king krazy says:

        We have some of the dumbest people in the world running this country.

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        • jayjay says:

          Hey, king krazy, there’s a name for that:
          A kakistocracy is defined as government by the least qualified or most unprincipled people.
          That’s us alright.

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          • CocoPuff CrackHead says:

            Great Word !

            kakistocracy

            Deriving from the Greek root “kakos”, meaning “bad”.

            Pronunciation and meaning can be easily associated with a “bad corrupt criminal fraudulent government”.

            Modern American government under British Banker control administration portrays a perfect example of a kakistocracy in all its ignorant, trigger happy, private-interest-driven Oligarchy glory.

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    33. pale rider says:

      Please forgive me for being off topic:

      The year is coming to an end; as a matter of fact we can go back several years. I see more and more events that do not add up. I also see the cover up if you will that is perpetrated by the Government, Media, Military, and yes Law Enforcement.

      This is very disturbing to me, in as much that I have begin to feel that a lot of Military, and L. E. are going to follow the FURHRER’s orders no matter what they maybe.

      Does anyone one else feel that way? Just asking

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      • Evil consolidates with evil.
        As a recent conversation with a LEO nephew, and an Oathkeeper. He understands, and watches, and more importantly he listen’s, while always keeping his opinion to himself.
        He is now teaching his young children not only to shoot guns, but bows. He is concerned about all the “new guys”, he says they enjoy the job too much, and that many of them are too “badge heavy”. When the subject of civilian guns came up the other day, some of the new guys were all gung ho to disarm the entire population.
        My nephew, said there are getting to be more of ‘them’, than there are ‘good guys’.

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    34. JRS says:

      The government is the only Constitutionally permitted entity allowed to coin money. They do this. However, they have committed treason by debasing our coinage. I believe the penalty prescribed is death. They have indebted the country by borrowing from the Federal Reserve banking cartel. In return, all we get are debt instruments called Federal Reserve Notes. These FRNs are NOT money but debt notes. Who signs for this debt note? Pull out a FRN and look. You don’t think the signature of the Treasurer and Secretary of the Treasury are there to make them pretty did you?

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    35. BigB says:

      I have a lot of silver and gold chains. If either can ever be used as currency then it is the easiest way to use as an exchange. Coins and bars cannot be used as the exchange value cannot be verified either by purity and or wieght. You can’t break a coin in half to an exact value if that makes sense.

      Salt, one of, if not the very first mineral or metal to be used as a currency. Easy to measure. I don’t understand why people put so much stock into precious metals. If not for use in manafacturing it has no more value than art. In our world of fiat currencies through out the world what makes anyone think these metals will continue to be of value?

      Tangible assets such as land, salt, food, animals etc. are of value always. Baubles such as metals, art and gems have no true value as they are only worth what they are in the eye of the beholder.

      Just one mans thoughts on what is valuable.

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      • HisArmsWide says:

        It’s because if there ever is a total collapse then any rebuild will _require_ portable wealth in order to have trade. PM’s have stood for that since well we had significant trade.

        Barter works. No one questions that. But where it breaks downs is like this –

        Steve has some extra rabbits and needs corn.

        Bob has corn but he also has rabbits and has no need of them. But he would like some honey.

        Mary has bees but needs neither corn or rabbits but wants hay for her sheep.

        The next group over they have a supply of hay but no easy way to transport it and what they need is antibiotics.

        Once you get past the two sided barter it gets unwieldy at best. And when you’re dealing with bulk items actual trading becomes a problem if you don’t have a reliable means of transport.

        But with some form of portable established value ‘money’ then Steve can buy Bob’s corn can buy Mary’s honey can buy the hay.

        And that’s the reason that PM’s are highly touted as a good prepping item.

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        • Rick:) says:

          ” double coincidence of wants” of the lack thereof.

          This is why fiat has a place in the world. But Uncle Sam (and every other government, to be fair)likes to come to the game table with a pocket full of chips he just “stamped out”, when everyody else has to buy in. Everything goes okay unless your the last guy to try and cash out!

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      • snake eater says:

        thank you big B my thoughts all along,,i have very little of either,,but lots of salt,,beans and the other B

        snake

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    36. JustOneGuy says:

      Morning Solar Report,

      After a protracted period of solar quiescence activity is increasing. Just after 09:00 UTC this morning the X-ray flux ‘high band’ (0.5-4.0 angstrom passband)of the NOAA GOES-15 platform registered an abrupt increase of approximately 1.5 ‘decades’ and has thereafter sustained at or near these new levels. This band had been at extremely low levels for more than the last 8 days, effectively at the bottom of the plotted scale except for some small random excursions throughout.

      The ‘low band’ activity, previously at or near B-1.1 on average, also has increased and is nearly at the C-1.0 level, this increase having been more gradual.

      These increases are directly atttributable to the initial emergence of the – as yet – unenumerated spot group which was seen to emerge in the SECCHI beacon imaging approximately 11 days ago which was responsible for a noteable flare (in ‘shade’, around the western limb) immediately after it’s initial emergence.

      The initial HMIB (color) imaging relative to this newly emerging group at this point shows a well-developed region which will merit at least a ‘Beta’ classification initially. Comparison of the as yet not fully revealed group clearly demonstrates a longitudinal (North-South) extension larger than any currently on the visible solar face. Further explication of the full extent of the area will, of course, be delayed until the area is fully in the Terrsetrial LOS.

      The measured Penticton Solar flux increased significantly over the last 5 days but was seen to decrease through the last 24 hours. This trend is expected to reverse immediately as the new spot group continues to rotate in on the North-East limb. The measured value of the flux (in sfu) at the 22:00 UTC measurement was 114.5.

      Terrestrail conditions,

      After a preiod of increased solar proton flux (and concommitant strong decrease in solar electron flux) and an attendant increase in the Auroral activity in the polar regions, the planetary k-index has returned to normal values. Though I have looked around for an explanation of the strong (2 orders of magnitude) increse in solar proton flux none has been forthcoming from the various functions which monitor such. Several solar mass emmisions were recorded over the last several days but none was indentified as being Earth directed.

      Extra-solar activity,

      None since the GRB noted on the 17th, which was of the ‘stronger’ variety as evaluated against the recorded light-curve.

      Final thoughts here; The strong regularity of the ‘sinusoidal’ character of the measured solar flux since April of this year continues per the latest readings. This is the longest period of such predictability (non inter-cycle, ‘between’) of which I am aware. Daily Solar report will be posted on an ‘as per, as needed’ basis due to the hoiday season. I will post here to note any significant activity occuring…nothing of merit will be ignored through the period.

      JOG

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    37. Prepping Preacher says:

      my view is that there won’t be an all-out “sweep” to collect any guns(save in the case of a disaster scenario like Katrina) but rather tptb will legislate them and the associated ammo out of use and off the market… you can “keep” them but never be able to shoot them nor buy ammo for them nor even display them in your own home… owners will be legislated into “declaring” them, likely through the IRS (since that illegal alphabet dog and pony show invades nearly every home in America)… then should a situation arise wherein tptb send their thugs into your home and your weapons are “discovered through a normal search of the premesis”, you(and potentially every other legal-aged person in your home) will go to jail on weapons possession charges… or use any one of them to protect you and yours and the same thing will occur, adding of course the charge of felony murder because you intended(by the fact you possess the weapon) to shoot someone…

      welkome to the new amerika – the land where micro-management of self-protection and 20oz sodas reigns

      may God forgive us

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    38. Barn Cat says:

      The problem is that they say “dollars” and they aren’t dollars. Anybody is free to mint silver coins that have denominations based on weight.

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    39. Satori says:

      “your papers,NOW”

      http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/arkansas-police-chief-claims-crime.html#more

      but its all for our own good of course !

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    40. Barn Cat says:

      I can’t imagine the Secret Service being involved with the confiscation of coins. That sounds like the Treasury Department. The Secret Service handles security for the president and other top government officials.

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      • Oldboy says:

        Secret Service is the Treasure Dept. THeir primary job is law enforcement related to counterfeiting, fraud, etc. SS body guards are a smaller function. They also have uniformed Secret Service acting as police in some sections of Washington DC.

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    41. So, “Liberty Dollars” are illegal even on eBay. I guess the competition is too much for the USG. Good Lord!! Real money is a crime.

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    42. JustOnerGuy says:

      Yo, durango kidd,

      Does this mean what I think it does, given the supply/demand aspect of reality?

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-18/japanese-pension-funds-34-trillion-assets-seek-safety-gold

      Financial is NOT my forte, any thoughts on this would be appreciated…your running commentary indicates that maybe this IS your area.

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    43. JustOnerGuy says:

      @ All,

      Apparently Adam Lanza was spending a LOT of his time heavily involved in ‘Call of Duty’, et all;

      http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-played-call-of-duty-2012-12

      Someone who had occasion to be in the basement of the Lanza residence (repeatedly) was interviewed on this. This just goes from bad to worse in terms of his mother’s judgement it appears.

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      • afterthefallpa says:

        He spent hours playing Call of Duty in “a windowless bunker”.
        As in the finished and furnished basement of his house.

        So I’m guessing the next step is to what, make it illegal to turn your basement into a den or rumpus room? Will basement refinishing contractors be identified as conspirators to terrorism???

        Windowless bunker….really????

        So almost all basements are now “windowless bunkers”, eh?

        The bathroom in my old apartment didn’t have windows and I’ve spent alot of time in there, does that mean the MSM would report that I’m crazy because I: “Insisted on only moving his bowels inside a windowless bunker”????

        Or if someone hits and kills someone with their car would the MSM claim they were a crazy premeditated car-killer because they had posters of sportscars in their bedroom?

        Granted, the guy did a horrible thing and had mental problems, but now they’re just grasping at straws to try and sell a story.

        If they want the big scoop then they need to star reporting on the “coincidental” connections between this guy, the Aurora shooter, and the LIBOR scandal!!!

        I’ve got such a headache now

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    44. VRF says:

      Of course they do, competition is a bitch, so when you have the power and ability to make your competition illegal you do it..thats our government for ya, at least as long as we’ll tollerate it…and thers the rub, .. as long as we tollerate it.

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    45. PrepperGal35 says:

      @ Be Informed and other earthquake watchers…
      Three Earthquakes in Japan today
      Map of Pacific Rim of Fire

      http://guardianlv.com/2012/12/japan-just-hit-with-third-earthquake-today-as-177-earthquakes-have-peppered-the-western-pacific/

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    46. leeholsen says:

      Thanks for posting this !

      I was looking for a sign on when I would need to buy Silver to store if needed to use when the US economy starts collapsing and this was it.

      I just put buy silver on my to do list.

      The US economic collapse may still be a year away, but I have no doubt the bad days are going to be really bad. I imagine a look at the daily drudge report of the brutal murders and robberies occurring today and multiply that times ten.

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    47. CocoPuff CrackHead says:

      The dirty dozen: Israel’s racist ringleaders

      Israelis chant “Sudanese Jews Back To Sudan” during a right-wing demonstration against African refugees in south Tel Aviv, 30 May 2012.

      http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/racism-israels-dirty-dozen/

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    48. Anonymous says:

      Speaking of coin, have you looked into 223 ammo “or there lack of” lately

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      • Kindle says:

        Anonymous., absolutely…I was trying to buy additional quantity and it was backordered. Then the backorder got backordered. Took me months to get any quantity. You can find overpriced boxes of 20 to 50.

        Kept watching all the suppliers and was able to jump immediately when they got their shipment in. Did the same thing with a couple of additional tools they now want to ban. I gave the salesman my number and he called me as soon as the truck came in.

        The scarcity is getting scary.

        By the time people wake up the shelves will be bare….or the stuff will be banned.

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        • Zoltanne says:

          Kindle, you’ve gotta get into reloading. Once fired 223 cases are plentiful. (And this is all right up your DIY alley!)

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          • Kindle says:

            Zoltane, you are so right. My dad & brothers were into it big time. I grew up helping them so I know the basics. Besides I don’t think they make saltpeter slugs anymore that I was wishing for a couple of weeks ago.

            Or maybe my dad made those slugs. Regardless, you are right.

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            • Zoltanne says:

              Kindle, you can also scrounge for lead then cast your own. We do that for some of our pistols just for close range practicing — so much cheaper. I’ve convinced my hubby that we need to make all of our bullets so he’s in. He’s been searching for saltpeter to make our own powder — can’t locate any. Can you get your dad’s equipment? (Never heard of saltpeter slugs, btw.) Trying to encourage you here, Kindle — switch over to reloading!

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              • Zoltanne,
                Making Black powder is NOT smokeless gun powder…
                be careful, you might hurt yourself, or more likely get a fouled up mess in your barrel, with powder not rated for semi automatic shooting habits…

                More profitable, stock up on primers, or figure out how to make them… good luck with that.

                The best formula for BP is 75 SP, 15S, 10C, by weight, grind until totally black.
                FUN…
                ;)

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      • machinist73 says:

        $1,000 for 1000 rounds

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    49. JustOneGuy says:

      So much for the supposed ‘Recovery,

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-18/who-needs-global-trade-anyway-fedex-shipments-imply-subzero-gdp

      The FEDEX stats say we’re cratering again…

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    50. VRF says:

      Why are all the pictures of this “Adam Lanza” fuzzy, out of focus.and generally bad pictures?

      Huh?
      todays technology and past technology all the way back into the 50′s we were able to have clear images of people and pictures..

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    51. VRF says:

      Billionaires Dumping Stocks, Economist Knows Why

      Despite the 6.5% stock market rally over the last three months, a handful of billionaires are quietly dumping their American stocks . . . and fast.

      Warren Buffett, who has been a cheerleader for U.S. stocks for quite some time, is dumping shares at an alarming rate. He recently complained of “disappointing performance” in dyed-in-the-wool American companies like Johnson & Johnson, Procter & Gamble, and Kraft Foods.

      In the latest filing for Buffett’s holding company Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett has been drastically reducing his exposure to stocks that depend on consumer purchasing habits. Berkshire sold roughly 19 million shares of Johnson & Johnson, and reduced his overall stake in “consumer product stocks” by 21%. Berkshire Hathaway also sold its entire stake in California-based computer parts supplier Intel.

      With 70% of the U.S. economy dependent on consumer spending, Buffett’s apparent lack of faith in these companies’ future prospects is worrisome.

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      • VRF says:

        John Paulson, who made a fortune betting on the subprime mortgage meltdown, is clearing out of U.S. stocks too. During the second quarter of the year, Paulson’s hedge fund, Paulson & Co., dumped 14 million shares of JPMorgan Chase

        George Soros recently sold nearly all of his bank stocks, including shares of JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, and Goldman Sachs. Between the three banks, Soros sold more than a million shares.

        It’s very likely that these professional investors are aware of specific research that points toward a massive market correction, as much as 90%.

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        • eeder says:

          @VRF ,I believe only world war 3 could cause that kind of correction in the stock market at this point. And I believe it is coming now. What is really scary is what will likely officially start it. A VERY serious attack on american soil, possibly being nuclear in nature.

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      • jayjay says:

        Maybe Mr. Buffet needs to invest in Best Choice, Happy Harvest, and Clover Valley brands!!!
        All of us don’t shop Krogers Mr. Buffet.
        Anyone here recognize them??

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    52. VRF says:

      A tiny Texas school district may be the first in the nation to pass a law specifically allowing teachers and staff to pack heat when classes begin later this month.

      Trustees at the Harrold Independent School District approved a district policy change last October so employees can carry concealed firearms to deter and protect against school shootings, provided the gun-toting teachers follow certain requirements

      St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch says it is time to talk about arming civilian school personnel following Friday’s massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, comparing it to arming airline pilots after September 11, 2001.

      “I see it no differently,” he said. “Pilots have been armed now for many many years, we’ve not had another hijacking and the issue is, for the bad guy, he doesn’t know which airplane he’s getting on, if the pilot is armed or not.”

      Fitch said the killing will not be stopped by legislation or laws. “If there’s somebody that’s really hellbent on doing something like this, they’re not going to care what the law is.”

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    53. VRF says:

      they are not only attacking your second amendment rights , they are attacking your 1st amendment rights too

      there were to be no stories other than what the Conn. cops said happened or you could be arrested..

      Facebook is getting hit too..people posting anything they dont like , they could get arrested for that too.
      so while every one is out there concerned about the 2nd right, they are sneaking in an shutting down your 1st right

      just google “When is social-media use a crime?”

      they better be careful..because thier own media is complicite.

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    54. VRF says:

      27 shot/dead..(supposedly)
      2+7=9
      date
      12/14/12

      1+2+1+4+1+2= 11

      9-11

      wow, they must love that series of numbers for some reason, just though it was odd

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    55. T.R. says:

      just looked on ebay , there are some on there .

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    56. snake eater says:

      cocopuff

      now that is much better,,give us some meat to look into,,so ya know i`m not jewish,,but still welcome a visit,,you might learn something,,i`m extending my hand in friendship,,
      i havent had time to look at things like some you you do in here,,but i have been looking in here for awhile,,and other folks in here have asked you to lighten up a little,,it seemed you did for a few days,,then right back at it
      i dont think anyone in here is a dummy,believe this or not way back i defended your right to free speech on this very site,,you are to darn smart to waste your knowledge the way it seems you have been,,
      it makes no difference at this point if its jews or men from mars now does it?????we seem to be in deep ca ca,,,
      spend yout time helping us get prepared for what ever,,with that i`ll close but befor i do MERRY CHRISTMAS and a happy new year i pray we both get to see 40 more,,

      snake
      plus i do eat worms too.,,,,so that was funny

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      • CocoPuff CrackHead says:

        @worm food … I do as I do for a Reason – LEAD FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF MY WAY @worm food … If you are a Vet read “BEHOLD A PALE HORSE” Navy / Air Force Veteran William Cooper with an open mind … though I don’t agree completely with some of William Cooper beliefs (like Aliens from Space visiting from Mars) … I do though appreciate the mental exercise his information gives an individual .

        And if your Not a Real Vet go phuck yourself J-Boy .

        William Cooper lecture ‘Behold a pale horse’ video (full)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUbFwqglIaA

        William Cooper : former U.S. Naval Intelligence Briefing Team Member, reveals information kept secret by our government since the 1940s. UFOs, the J.F.K.. assassination, the Secret Government, the war on drugs and more by the world’s leading expert on UFOs.

        ~N.O. ;0P

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        • snake eater says:

          coco
          i`ll ask you this question ,,whom are you helping??/in these times i think everyone and i mean everyone needs to pull together,
          you can rant and rave all you want to,,but it doesnt seem to be helping anyone but you,,,frustration relief,,stress relief ???what???
          everyone in here seems to want the same thing,,,to survive and live free,,and help each other,,,call me what you want,,worm eater,,,bug eater,,because i`ve eaten it all,,snake ,,monkey,,,rats ,,,cats ,,,dogs,,raw duck,,,chicken uncooked,,,maggotttttttss,,,plus grass for 8 days,,,
          so you go right ahead yell,, shout,,scream,,
          the invite for you to come see me is still open,,but it seems you wish not too,,why is that,,

          snake

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          • eeder says:

            are you a tough guy snake eater? tell me more.

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            • snake eater says:

              eeder
              nope i`m not tough,,i cry like most people,,do you???
              what makes someone tough???i`ll tell you just like i told coco i`m not hiding,,go back thru the post i told everyone in here where i am to date no one has appeared,,trying to hide ??? i dont think so in any of these sites,,,
              only a few in here think they are the only enlightened ones it seems,,some of you think none of read anything,,,or understand what we read,,so be informed we do,,,

              snake

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      • Gunsmith says:

        Snake-eater…devours worms???

        I surmise you’re a Q-course grad
        Respect here, sir! Salute!
        Per you knowledge expanding endeavors, see below:

        http://mynameisjoecortina.wordpress.com/

        http://brovids.com/

        http://www.greatwhitedesert.org/Library.php

        http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/arabs.htm

        …sorry to load up your homework, but these sources will give you some “meat & potatoes” to sink your teeth into……..good luck & a very Merry Christmas to you/yours.

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    57. pale rider says:

      Now WTF DHS just ordered another 200,000 40 S/W HP rounds. To be delivered to a training site in I believe S.C.

      The time is growing very short. PREPARE NOW!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    58. JoeinNC says:

      AS usual, you are full of shit. The secret service cannot ban a legal process of its own accord. The action has to be passed by congress. Please, learn some basic civics. Dumbass.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9

    59. obama – We must have a conversation about assault weapons

      real amaericans- OK how about we talk about the aassault weapons you sold to mexican drug gangs that killed 500 mexicans and 2 u.s. border officers

      obama- end of conversation

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    60. Trail Guide says:

      PsyOps… just in case some are still confused.

      Psychological operations are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

      Careful, dear tourist. The herds are being.. well, herded. It’s 24/7 on the subject. In fact, I have never seen such towing the line in the SUBJECT line from all the MSM news. (I barf accordingly at the additional atrocity). If it sells, it sells $$$.
      Note: I am probably the most heart-broken person you’ll meet today on the travesty of SandyHook. I cry on a different level that Fake,Plastic people who desire to dig at the wound for $.
      It’s done. We weep for the families and there are angels that hear. I heard all I needed to hear – babies buried are not a HEADLINE! These parents don’t need to know the WORLD grieves… I’m very sure they could give a crap less. I’m also very sure they aren’t glue to the TV to see if all the MSM is drumming up sympathy. I’d bet they have a grief we can only thank GRACE that ‘thank the Lord for mercy, but for there go I’ to deal with on this few days before CHRISTMAS.
      The rest BS – It’s a game and you have to decide if you have the right chip in the right place at the right move.

      Professional Tourist Tip #148: You have to breath every chance you get. Toss out the crap, tighten your front because it only gets worse from this marker…’experience hikers’ signs are a clue.
      Trail guide tip #205 – TURN OFF THE DAMNED TV. I ain’t just kidding. It not only raised the blood pressure; you are apt to forget (brainwashed against) what you need to do, so turn it off and GET TO IT, there is no other warning included in the box.
      or…Stay glue and waste time if you are a weeble-wobble type… hoping the FB or Tweetie things tell you some GOOD news you are looking for.
      Good luck with your travels… you’re going to need an unfathomable amount if you are basing it on luck.

      /sorry, Mac, it’s been hard and HARD has just been reckoned on a whole new level. Thanks as always for holding the line.
      ~..~ wee

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    61. Anonymous says:

      we no longer have freedom of speech; otherwise i would post what i really feel. welcome to the NWO— government of, for and by the corporations.

      God is stronger…things will change for the better, evolve, whether the pigs want it or not.

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    62. Paul Pace says:

      According to the Constitution, what he was minting was MUCH closer to real money than the toilet paper the JEW run Federal Reserve is foisting on the American people!

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    63. This is one reason why I like Silver Eagles and mostly old ‘junk’ silver. The SS got no problem with that stuff. I knew this guy Nathaus(sp?) was screwing up when I heard about him… right sentiment, wrong method.

      As far as the assault weapon? A semi automatic firearm, is NOT an assault weapon… boy would I LOVE to own a true assault weapon… to defend myself from crap like Piers Morgan and his handlers.

      I have been in shock since Newtown… pray for those children and adults, and pray for the shooter and his mom, he was sick… but, what was he sick from? A common disease in this country… immorality, Godlessness, listening to voices other than the Holy Spirit.

      Who to blame for all this violence? I blame the left, make them hold it… they are the ones who kicked God out of the schools, and out of the womb, and wanted a culture of violence and the freedom to teach kids to be adults before they were old enough to assimilate the difference between good and evil. The left has taken the taboos of childhood away, and created monsters.

      Blame the LEFT. Blame the Godless Heathen monsters and the hedonist crap that now runs this country. Blame those in science who say there is no God. Blame the preachers who never stood up to it, and, blame yourselves for not standing up for God and fighting the “Spiritual wickedness in HIGH places”.

      Do you see the Kabuki dance in DC? The Thesis, AntiThesis, and now arriving at the ‘compromise’ of SYNTHESIS? This Biden panel already has their final report drafted, they drafted the bullet points before it was announced…years ago.

      There is only one legal, moral, and sane way forward, having already lost America… open Pandora’s box and fight for her, or prepare for The Elephant.

      There is only one way to TAKE POWER from Washington…back to the states.

      Now we are all in;
      The Kabuki dance in the theater of the damned,
      and now they dance upon the bodies of our children.
      Damn them all to hell.

      pipermichael dot wordpress dot com

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    64. Anonymous says:

      Not an attorney , nor do I support the move ………………….but I think where the company screwed up was #1. putting USA on it , and #2. putting ANY denomination on the coin …………..technically speaking that may indeed classify as a counterfeit coin . A person in another country buying this would not know that it was NOT an official american coin ……..after all it does have USA on it and $20 ….Just sayin . If on the other hand they just minted coins , not claiming to be representative of any country ( by means of writing the nations name ) or claiming it to be a face value of an official currency . Then I think everything would have been ok , if they strike the USA and $20 off the coin and remake it as just 1oz silver ……..they should be fine as all they are claiming at that point is that it is 1oz of silver .

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    65. Custer says:

      How can the secret service ban anything. Pure B.S.

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