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    Silver Coin Collectors and Pawn Shops are Getting Duped: “Very High Quality Fakes”

    Mac Slavo
    May 6th, 2013
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (164)
    Read by 17,385 people

    With rising precious metals prices comes the age-old scam of counterfeits.

    Fake gold coins and bars,  many originating from China, have been discovered at dealers all over the world, including some high profile banks. Some analysts have even suspected that central banks, which hold thousands of tons of gold, may have fallen prey to the scam.

    With silver having recently achieved all times highs and currently trading at around $25 per ounce, counterfeiters see a potential boon for their bottom lines. Counterfeiting silver isn’t new, and numerous fake 100 ounce silver bars and U.S. Morgan dollars have been discovered to date. But now the scammers have turned their sights on the official one ounce bullion coin of the United States – the American Silver Eagle. In April, the US Mint sold in excess of four million silver eagles, highlighting the surging popularity of the coin.

    With many more millions of ounces being traded on the open market at traditional coin shops, online retailers and popular auction web sites, unscrupulous counterfeiters can easily slip fake coins into the mix. They do so through online auction sites, where unsuspecting buyers think they’re getting the real thing. Those collectors may then end up visiting a broker in their local area who unknowingly purchases the bunk coins and resells them to other buyers. The process happens everyday and is responsible for perhaps tens of thousands of fake silver coins and bars now in circulation.

    In Hamilton, Ontario, the problem is so widespread that they have dedicated a special task force to investigate the five hundred fake American Eagles discovered in the hands of dealers and private owners.

    Buyer beware, because that 99.9% silver coin you think you may have in your possession may be nothing more than practically worthless silver plated brass:

    Police are warning that fake U.S silver eagle dollar coins have been circulating in the city and have been sold to various establishments over the past few months.

    “You wouldn’t be able to tell the difference (with) the naked eye. The coins are actually very high quality fakes,” Const. Mike La Combe said in a Hamilton Police YouTube video. “They are silver and nickel-plated, which gives them the look of an actual silver dollar. However, when you cut them open, you can clearly see on the inside, they are brass filled.”

    The video shows some of the roughly 500 fakes that have been confiscated so far.

    “They are worth practically nothing, just a couple cents each,” La Combe explained.

    LaCombe is a pawn unit investigator and says the coins are being bought online, then sold at “golden” times for the seller when shops are busy or with little staff. During the rush, employees may not have the time to do all the proper authenticity checks, giving criminals the chance to sell fast without getting caught.

    “Only buy them from reputable dealers, a place that is established, an expert who works there who knows the difference between real and fake. Don’t buy them off the internet. and don’t buy them from people from the public who aren’t considered experts because more than likely you’re going to get a fake,” added Le Combe.

    Via: CBC Hamilton

    With prices as high as they are, it is in the interest of every potential precious metals investor to take it upon themselves to have a working knowledge of the coins and bars in which they are investing. Here are some tips and strategies for ensuring you are getting the real thing:

    • Ring Test (video) – A silver coin or bar will have a distinct ring, as opposed to fakes which will have a thud when struck or dropped.
    • Weight (video) – Understand that a “Troy Ounce“, which is how we generally weigh precious metals, is different from the popular “Avoirdupois Ounce” used as a more traditional unit of measure in the United States. Just because a coin or bar says it weighs a certain amount doesn’t make it so. If you have a gram-based scale, bring it with you to the coin shop or Craigslist exchange. If you don’t have one, spend $30 and pick one up before you spend thousands on precious metals.
    • Nitric Acid Test (video) – You may not be able to test every coin or bar with nitric acid, as it requires a little bit of filing down to get under the “plate” but if you are buying in bulk, the seller may allow you to test a random piece of your choosing after you’ve performed a magnet, weight and ring test.
    • Coin Caliper – If a counterfeiter uses a metal other than silver, chances are that the coin dimensions will have to change – or the coin will weigh more or less than it is supposed to with the specific dimensions. Every minted coin has a specific diameter and thickness. A caliper, usually available for $15 – $50, will give you the ability to measure the specific inches/millimeters of a particular coin. Cross compare this information, along with the weight, to the mint’s coin specifications and if they match up, then the likelihood of a fake is extremely low – especially if it “rings true.”
    • Low ball pricing – If someone is trying to sell you a silver coin for significantly less than the market value, this should raise alarms. At current demand levels, there is always a buyer out there willing to pay full price, so why would a seller offer the coin for so much less? Probably because it is a fake!

    Most importantly, you’ll want to avoid auction sites for silver and gold unless you trust the seller implicitly. The only easily recognizable coins  that have yet to be faked because of their small denominations and potential for long-term jail sentences are dollar denominated official US currency like pre-1965 silver quarters and Kennedy/Franklin half dollars. The amount of silver in these coins is fairly small, making them unprofitable for counterfeiters when compared to one troy ounce silver eagles or larger bullion bars. So, if you’re using an auction site to buy coins consider sticking to quarters and half dollars.

    The other key consideration is doing business with reputable firms. While we can never be 100% sure, buying from a dealer who’s been in business for many years and has built a reputation for honesty will help reduce the chance of being scammed. Dealers who source their supplies directly from official mints and offer uncirculated coins or bars are as close to safe as you can get because there is no middle man.

    If you’re planning on investing in precious metals do your research, understand what you’re buying, know the specific dimension & weight of the product you’re purchasing, and diversify your holdings to include bullion coins, bars, and even official legal tender like pre-1965 U.S. quarters.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 17,385 people
    Date: May 6th, 2013
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    164 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Outlaw says:

      Read about this yesterday, some of our local shops got duped.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

        • durango kidd says:

          As I recall, SOMEONE on this site expressed his surprise in a discussion last year, that silver and gold coins were not being duplicated.

          Who was that masked man? :-)

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

          • Hmmmm………Lindsay Williams???? LOL.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

            • I went to a shop today and got $3.50 face value (12 quarters and 1 half) for 70$
              Is that an ok deal……I didn’t figure weight and do math. It was fun buying for first time at a store in person.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

              • Survivalista says:

                According to coinflation 12 quarters and 1 half are worth about $60.50, so not a bad deal IMO. If you have an iPhone I highly recommend the coinflation app!

                People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

              • Beth says:

                FOR ME….not bad. I generally will go about $5@ on the quarters and $15 on the halves.It was pre 65, wasn’t it?

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

              • Kindle says:

                I buy & sell a lot of silver coins and I would say you got a good deal. My sales have been averaging 25-30% over spot for about 8 months now.

                Physical and paper prices have been diverging for some time now. Coinflation is a good site but it reflects the paper price. I don’t know of anyone who has been able to buy physical at the paper price so getting some for 15% over spot is good.

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

              • clint hospo says:

                id take a very high neodiemum magnets to mine and they wont stick at all with real siver, but plates shit will sling to that thing quicker than crap. thats what i do.

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • simoney says:

            Many have voiced that concern. In fact, fakes coins were being found back in 2008 already.
            Dont be surprised if Fed & BOE is behind the fakes too. Cui Bono?

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • You should check out BATTLEFIELD SYRIA at MANTIS INTELLIGENCE. They break down the Syria Conflict perfectly, showing battle areas, humanitarian stations, and Syrian military bases. Very well put together!!!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • KY Mom says:

        As more and more people in the U.S. and around the world are buying gold and silver, supplies on hand are currently limited.

        Locally, supplies are definitely limited and prices are UP in the shops that sell gold and silver coins in this area.

        Satori posted this link earlier today on the previous article.
        (Comment ID: 1611582)

        COMEX Hurtling Towards Default And People Will Be “Settled” With Dollars, No More Metal Will Be Delivered!

        http://investmentwatchblog.com/comex-hurtling-towards-default-and-people-will-be-settled-with-dollars-no-more-metal-will-be-delivered/

        This brings to mind important questions, such as…

        -Why is there such a panic going on to remove physical gold from Comex registered warehouses and other depositories?

        -Where is the gold being moved to?

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

      • Gods Creation says:

        Just the banksters trying to dissuade people from buying gold and silver.

        If the banks got duped, they got duped with their own tungsten bars, which have been traced to New York.

        I bet nobody counterfeits those old dimes and quarters I have. Anything, even gold, that comes from or through a bank is NOT safe.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 5

        • Gods Creation says:

          The banksters already have stolen all the real gold. They have to replace it with something that can’t be easily traced. Tungsten to the rescue.

          Now they are poisoning the silver markets too.

          The line in the end will be the ONLY place to get real gold and silver is through the central banksters, who will melt down the stolen metals and make their own bars out of it.

          Anything else will be presumed fake in the world of commerce.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5

          • Walt Kowalski says:

            I don’t understand why everything else will automatically be considered fake.

            This is not rocket science.

            Re-read the info in the article about how to detect fakes. It’s not hard at all.

            Bottom line….if the coin matches the specifications in both size and weight, then it is authentic.

            Why? Because gold and silver have specific atomic weights. You can’t fake that. Nothing else on the planet will square up with the specs. For instance, a brass coin that is plated with silver, will weigh less than an authentic coin.

            But to make an assumption that anything other than something issued by the central bankers is fake….is just dumb. In fact…I’d trust them a lot less than I’d trust a set of scales and calipers. Additionally, the sound that the coin would make if it were fake is distinctly different.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

            • Them Guys says:

              What distinct sound will a Bankster have if dropped on his head as a test? A Thud or more like a Splat?

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1

            • TnAndy says:

              Walt nailed it.

              As Mac says in the article, buy a gram scale…one that will go to tenths of a gram, and a pair of calipers that will read to a thousandth, ( less than a 100 bucks for the two in pretty decent quality ), and you’ll knock out every fake going.

              Tungsten is the closest material used to fake BARS, but doesn’t work for coins as it’s too hard to stamp a relief on….so they use brass/copper/etc, and softer materials like that with a plating of silver or gold…..which gets into the weight/dimension problem.

              As the guy that acted as president said: “Trust, but verify”.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            • JustOneGuy says:

              Howdy Walt,

              The object of the counterfeiter’s is only to produce something ‘good enough’..it doesn’t HAVE to be PERFECT, just very, very cloae…

              Along that line of thouught, bear in mind that IF you have something MORE dense than the material being replaced then you CAN execute a near perfect replica that will pass ‘muster’ all but to perfection, IF you have the TOOLS to do it; that is why tungsten is so popular for the substitute material in the gold scam… it’s VERY dense, near to 20 gms/cc…more so than Gold is. The trick is Finding a VOLUME of the tungsten that will, when combined with something lighter, produce the ‘right’ final weight…Remember Walt, the story of that buyer in Mahattan about 5-6 months ago…he WAS an ‘expert’, a ‘Jewelry district’ buyer…those guys are WAY ‘saavy’, they’ve jut about seen it all…

              JOG

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Mountain Trekker says:

            Creation, I’m with you. I have always preferred pre 1965 junk silver over everything else, just for that reason, and also if the price of silver goes through the roof when the Schumer Hits The Fan, you’ll still be able to use smaller denomanations to make a purchases. Need a loaf of bread? A silver dime may work, but then again you may need a 1oz. Silver Eagle who knows. but still prefer junk coins by far, over anything else. Trekker Out. FREE MEN OWN GUNS,SLAVES DON’T!

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

        • Facebook Page says:

          Yes they do fake Dimes and Quarters..

          See the discussion below..

          Every size every date every countries coins are being fake at the company in china and in mass quantities.

          Just go to the online catalog. They even do overnight shipping.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

          • Gods Creation says:

            what company in china?

            Even if there is a company selling fake stuff as fake stuff, it’s still just a part of the banksters effort to discredit gold and silver.

            Part of the plan is to make it impossible to tell what is real or not, to stymie commerce in specie coin.

            The only real coins will be minted by the NWO and forced on a sovereignty near you.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

            • Facebook Page says:

              So you are so disconnected from the world that you don’t know about the coin companies in China Mass producing fakes..;

              A simple web search and they will appear. Many of them.

              But only one does overnight shipping

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7

              • Troll killer says:

                Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

                Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 26

                • Gee wizzz says:

                  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

                  Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 34

                • troll killer says:

                  so Gods abomination is nothing but a welfare cheat and leach

                  Great just what the world needs more leaches

                  nice gig if you can get it but understand if i knew who he was he would be number one on my list

                  Troll killer

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9

            • Smokey says:

              No, it’s not some bankster conspiracy, it’s Chinese fakery so they can sell the goods and make money. There’s no Bilderberger conspiracy to flood the market for Gucci purses to discredit the market in genuine goods, either. They’re just doing it to make easy money.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            • Tucker says:

              I’m wondering if stories like this are being promulgated as part of a clever scheme to entice people who already own gold or silver eagle coins to rush down to a gold dealer and ask for their coins to be ‘examined for authenticity’, whereupon the dealer wearing the yarmulke will assume a carefully rehearsed expression of distress, and exclaim, Oy Vey! “I am afraid these coins are fakes! But, as a gesture of my profound degree of sympathy for your misfortune – would you allow me to volunteer to give you a few shekels for consolation and let me unburden you of these phony items?”

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

          • Smokey says:

            Last year I bought 12 nice UNC 1928 Cyprus silver crowns on Ebay. They were all Chinese fakes. I got my money back via PayPal, so all is well, but I took them to a dealer and we both examined them closely. They were die-struck, had a good ringing sound on the counter, and the correct dimension and weight. I drilled one open and the yellow brass stood right out.

            The dealer said “if you think these are scary, look at these.” He put several fake classic collector coins on the counter, if genuine, about $10,000 worth. “They even fooled me for a little while.” You can literally get them in any collector grade you want, from VF to MS 66 in also-fraudulent certified collector slab housings.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            • Them Guys says:

              Seems once again the Anti-Gentiles are out and hard at work for their SPLC masters huh.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

              • troll killer says:

                seems like the Anti Jew nazis are at it once again

                did you celebrate Hitlers birth day this year ??

                sieg heil mein fuhrer

                this site is turning into a bunch of nazis

                and not a bunch of Preppers

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

            • TnAndy says:

              “Last year I bought 12 nice UNC 1928 Cyprus silver crowns on Ebay. They were all Chinese fakes. I got my money back via PayPal, so all is well, but I took them to a dealer and we both examined them closely. They were die-struck, had a good ringing sound on the counter, and the correct dimension and weight. I drilled one open and the yellow brass stood right out.”

              They were the EXACT size and weight, and yet made of brass core ?

              How, exactly, is that possible ?

              The specific gravity of brass is about 20% less than silver. To get the correct weight, the size HAS to be bigger….to get the correct size, the weight HAS to be light.

              Sorry, I call BS on this.

              People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

            • Hmmm… weight/dimension problem now exceeds the laws of physics?
              Not buying it.
              Nor, that a coin dealer was fooled.
              Any dealer who has the slightest doubt, will go through ALL tests. I have seen this with my own eyes. If he still has doubts, he won’t buy it… unless he’s new to the business (and ain’t gonna be in business long.)

              One reason I only buy pre 1965 junk american coins, hard to fake an old morgan. Especially since silver and gold will ‘sing’ if you flip them real hard, that’s a test you can do without any test equipment.

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

              • Not so Much says:

                “hard to fake an old morgan.”
                Perhaps you missed the part of the story that says yea Morgans are being counterfeitted too.

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • PenCRNA says:

          Actually, my husband receives email updates on such things. A few months ago someone was going to small shops selling per-65 quarters and half dollars that were fakes. Be careful.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • Highspeedloafer says:

        OT Radio Host to Lead Armed March on DC July 4th ‘To Put Gov’t on Notice.

        http://www.thedailysheeple.com/radio-host-to-lead-armed-march-on-dc-july-4th-to-put-govt-on-notice_052013

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • No permits… civil disobedience… OPEN CARRY…?
          they say they will turn around if they meet resistance?

          All its gonna take is one dumbass… on either side.
          Unfortunately, the revolution will NOT be televised.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • possee says:

        Everyone has their panties in a bunch over so called precious metals..

        fools gold..

        I like the tangible assets..
        tin,copper,nickle,brass,aluminum,wood,h20,labor,dirt,seeds,and lead.

        What lies within is the real deal and lately worth more than their precious metal counterparts..

        I’ll keep stacking them..

        Have a great day.!

        possee

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    2. DRD5508 says:

      Banks falling prey to a scam? How does it feel?

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

      • OutWest says:

        Stick with “Junk Silver” dimes, quarters, and halves.

        Lowest premium, easily recognizable, no questions as

        to authenticity.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3

        • Facebook Page says:

          Those are also being fake and the company that makes them will also wear them down and antique them too for you.

          Yes there is a learning to PM but don’t let it scare you. I have been burn but I learned from it.

          Stick to smalls and check them and deal with the shop that has been there for a while in person in your area.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

        • DRD5508 says:

          OutWest, agree. I have found some junk silver lately at pawn shops for going prices. 1920 silver dollar, paid $25 a week ago and 18 quarters, in a baggie, for $133 all pre 64.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    3. The government will be doing the same with nickels and pennies soon. China is just ahead of the curve.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    4. Bank Loan Collateral says:

      I’d like to get some of them fakes for the right price.
      To go with my ten dollar $50 GOLD Buffaloes I got on TV.
      Drop them in a US MINT proof holder and close the deal.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    5. Case Dismissed says:

      Fake coins purchased with fake money.

      A victimless crime.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2

    6. GO ARMY! says:

      Every year the Afghanistan poppy crop sets another record!

      USA! USA! USA!

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    7. Southern Border says:

      Good article for those of us who are new at buying silver. I just picked up a couple hundred pre 1964 90/10 dimes a couple of weeks ago. Figured dimes were a good place as any to start, small enough to barter for smaller items if needed.

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    8. anonymous6.8 says:

      I have dealt a number of times with onlygold.com, which is the online presence of the twenty years established brick and mortar coin and stamp gallery in phoenix. Last fall they changed their name to georgia sonora. I have never bought from an online auction house because I couldn’t verify the seller’s bona fides. My silver purchases have been mostly canadian maple leafs for precisely the reason this article states. My thinking was it would take the tech savvy of a nation to create passable bullion coin fakes, and it would only be worth doing if they were spoofing the 900 pound gorilla in the market. Therefore the maple leafs.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

    9. Facebook Page says:

      A friend/Shop took in 50 2008 Silver Maple Leafs. Yes SILVER Maple Leafs. I saw them they were next to perfect. One blemish in the front and you had to look for it.

      Understand someone hires kids (Pacific NW)to go to different shops and they sell them for the first offer given.
      The secret Service show up but they keep missing the big fish in the crime.

      Also saw fake gold bars and $20 gold.

      I was amaze at how much very fake silver there was.

      They were non magnetic. Weight was almost perfect Size was off a little Pure Tungsten.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 9

      • Facebook Page says:

        And I did mean Canadian 2008 Silver Maple Leafs. They are out there too.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

        • JustOneGuy says:

          REPOST…

          FBP,

          Se my note below*….this was a part of the original article that Business Insider posted after that buyer in New York got ‘hit’ for 500 Large on Tungsten filled Bullion Bars a while back…Damn ChiComs are INCREDIBLY good at generating these fakes….it IS almost impossible to tell the difference.

          Additionally, bear in mind folks, as things ‘tighten-up’ here towards “The End” it’s going to get MUCH WORSE….IF some ‘biggy’ gets stiffed AND the fakes ARE GOOD enough…what do YOU think they will do?
          Would they ‘Eat’ the loss…I DOUBT it. The most ‘telling’ thing going on right now is that I am hearing that the Shaghai Metals Exchange is REFUSING delivery… Right NOW!!…they will ‘settle at par, in fiat’ only…

          …GET READY!…T’aint too far off now, Methinks.

          JOG

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          • Facebook Page says:

            I believe there are warehouses full of fakes out there just waiting to flood the system.

            And that they are all ready deployed world wide to be distributed slowly at first then a total dump. Causing even more trouble (Rioting)

            As of now my stash PM are all confirmed and keep far away from my monthly burn and turns and as I said a few fakes have made it into my bags too.

            Luckly I only got nailed once in gold but the silver dollars in grade are hard to detect with out breaking them

            That why I bought the hand held xray

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    10. Prepared Pastor says:

      I bought my Silver Eagles online from Gainesville Coins back when they were selling for $1.99 over spot. They had a good rating and provided excellent customer service. I have no problem recommending them to others.

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      • stacker says:

        I will respectfully give a differing opinion. My experience with Gainesville Coins was not positive. The coins I ordered (even ASE’s and Maples) were not in good condition. There were noticeable scratches and dings and dents. This happened with the two orders I placed with them. Gainesville’s policy is not to refund or replace any bullion. You get what you get. I would warn anyone to read the fine print, look up other reviews and then make your own decision.

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        • Scratches and dings on a BULLION coin means nothing…
          OTOH, those same scratches and dings on a NUMISMATIC coin destroys its value…
          Every bullion coin I have, has a mark on it, it doesn’t detract from the base value because the condition is usually not part of the ‘value’ of the spot price of the metal, thus the name; BULLION coins.

          Why I like Junk? They are neither bullion nor numismatic, unless you get really lucky and check for special years. I always check every coin against the coin book.

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      • HisArmsWide says:

        No complaints here with gainsville. They ship when they say and ship what they say. I’ve had nothing but mint ASE’s, AGE’s and micro bars from them.

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    11. JustOneGuy says:

      I mentioned this some months ago….

      There is at least one company in China that SPECIALIZES in the crafting of ‘erzats’ bullion bars and ‘virtually undetectable coins’ of all major manufacture, that are QUITE capable of fooling even ‘jewelry trade’ buyers…even capable of fooling a ‘sonic test’. It APPEARS that the only way to ascertain WHAT you are getting is the tried and true ‘industrial X-ray’ scan method…the same method that the Brooklyn metals buyer finally used BEFORE he ended up sawing into the 500G of tungsten-gilled, fake bars that he had bought a while back…

      …Be VERY, VERY Careful Folks, these ‘fakes’ ARE as ‘good as they come’…the Chinese company doing this claims that these are effectively ‘party favors’ for Wealthy clients and DISCLAIMS any responsibility for ‘false representation’…

      “Caveat Emptor”, Indeed…

      JOG

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      • Facebook Page says:

        As above.

        They also make Fake worn Pre 65 US Silver coins. And they are good. And the small ones its hard to detect bad weight due to the quality of the cheap scales.

        Don’t go cheap when buying a scale. And $60 is still cheap one.

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        • JustOneGuy says:

          CRAP!!!

          I WAS REALLY hoping that they weren’t yet focusing on denom that small…no more buying there then either…looks like we’re just about down to what we’ve got on-hand now…T’anks FBP!!

          JOG

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          • Facebook Page says:

            I have held a fake 64 Dime in my hand. Quarter and halves too.

            I saw the catalog for the company and they do all coins all dates. All countries.

            And will do other coins if you send them specs.
            Think Sterling Coin collectors sets. US MINT SETS

            NON PM Collectors coin by the bucket if a customer wants them.

            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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        • WOW FBP…just wow.
          I just don’t understand how the weight/dimension and sound tests can be faked…

          This would not be allowed in America, if they were passing them off as real, the dealers would make sure of it. This has a GOVERNMENT SANCTION. The same as those hackers tearing up the networks.
          First info, then money, next… who knows.
          China, is not our friend.
          Machiavelli is the way of the world, its all about resource dominance.

          Glad to know, as my ‘coin collection’ has been accumulated over 30 years. Long before this recent spate of malfeasance.
          But, I’ve never had the Sing/Ring test fail, and I still just don’t understand how anyone could be fooled…

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      • Facebook Page says:

        I have a handheld precious metal x ray analyzer. It the way to go but they cost alot

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        • JustOneGuy says:

          JustOneGuy says:
          Comment ID: 1614073
          May 6, 2013 at 2:33 pm

          REPOST…

          FBP,

          Se my note below*….this was a part of the original article that Business Insider posted after that buyer in New York got ‘hit’ for 500 Large on Tungsten filled Bullion Bars a while back…Damn ChiComs are INCREDIBLY good at generating these fakes….it IS almost impossible to tell the difference.

          Additionally, bear in mind folks, as things ‘tighten-up’ here towards “The End” it’s going to get MUCH WORSE….IF some ‘biggy’ gets stiffed AND the fakes ARE GOOD enough…what do YOU think they will do?
          Would they ‘Eat’ the loss…I DOUBT it. The most ‘telling’ thing going on right now is that I am hearing that the Shaghai Metals Exchange is REFUSING delivery… Right NOW!!…they will ‘settle at par, in fiat’ only…

          …GET READY!…T’aint too far off now, Methinks.

          JOG

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        • BraneFrees says:

          Uh….

          There’s no such word as alot.

          :-)

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        • JustOneGuy says:

          Repost…

          Careful with those handheld units FBP, beside being WAY ‘pricey’ they are effectively ‘hazaedous’ over any large number of uses…no matter WHAT the manuf. says. To adequately inspect things on an ‘industrial level’ they have to USE a much higher amount of X-ray quanta than say a chest X-ray…many, many times more than..also, the ‘shielding’ required in the handheld’s SUCKS. Take CARE Bro.

          JOG

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          • Facebook Page says:

            JOG
            Yes they do. And they require serious factory maintenance and it is carried in a Lined case FOR THE USERS PROTECTIN. Never lay it in your lap.

            But it paid for itself in 30 days ($21K)
            Yes Care must be taken. THEY ARE NOT A TOY.

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        • sixpack says:

          FBP, How much is “a lot”? Can you give a link to a decent x-ray goodie like you have?

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          • sixpack says:

            You know, if this gadget is accurate and spendy, one might be able to recoup some of the expense of purchasing it, by servicing other people’s goods for them, for a small fee of course. The end result is you’d get your analyzer at a reduced price, if not outright free…and maybe rout out some fakes at the same time. A win-win situation, IMO.

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      • patientmomma says:

        How long has China been circulating these fakes? Recent or more than 5-10 years?

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        • Facebook Page says:

          “My Understanding”

          There has been small time operators for decades. Mostly large piece $ value.

          IN the last five years they start doing more and keeping them out of US.

          This company we have referred to has 2 years under their belt and ships world wide.

          Overnight available and I believe they take Paypal.

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    12. CrabbeNebulae says:

      Funny… LOLOLOL!!! I don’t need ring tests, nitric acid tests, or coin calipers to tell if my wheat berries, bullets and tomatoes are real!! LOLOLOL!!!! Or, to determine if my plow, cultivator or tiller works, or if my water is wet and my powder is dry. Invest in food, guns, ammo, tools, medicine and grow yourself a garden. Use your silver coins to test your marksmanship. Use your gold coins to bury in the ground to give future generations of Archeologists something to blather about.

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      • Facebook Page says:

        Very true they are first always.

        But there is a point where you can not store anymore.

        Land is even getting hard to transfer wealth into.

        And what if the conex leaks that are full of AKS PM don’t rust or fade away. Just do your homework first.

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      • Indy Colts says:

        I totally agree. I invest in ammo, arms, and food/water. When SHTF do you really think people are going to water metals?? They want tangible items because metals won’t keep you alive or give you security. They are nice to hold and increase wealth but I don’t see myself making this investment.

        Off topic but appropreiate for site. My wife was talking to me over the weekend stating she thinks I have went overboard and become distrustful of people and my government. She says my prepping stems from a negitative outlook on life waiting for a collapse. I’ve tried many times to explain things like false flags and Builderberg group but she doesn’t seem to agree with my point of view.

        I asked her if she’s willing to give up liberty for security… and she of course said yes. We watched a utube video about the downloadable AR 15 and she didn’t like it because a criminal could get an assult rifle. I explained it was the whole point something could be made the government couldn’t regulate is what appeals to me. The bad guys will always have guns and it would still take some know how to finish the rifle after the reciever was printed.

        Bottomline;Is anyone else here married to someone who doesn’t see value in the prepping you are doing? We’ve been married for about 2 years so how do you older preppers deal with this? I don’t fault her for it because she’s a passive person but its hard to share something with someone who doesn’t respect what your doing.

        GOD BLESS and thanks for the thoughts!

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        • Indy Colts says:

          water metals = want metals Hate auto correct!

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          • hillbilly SC says:

            Indy:

            Mrs. hillbilly may have though I was a Lil’ over the edge when I first showed her my prep’s.

            We had been dating for over a year when she asked me to tell her something about myself. (I figured… Now or Never) :)

            I’ve been seriously “saving” since the early 90′s. Hell, I still have my 45′s (records y’all, not dat thing on my hip) :)

            My wife has tried to understand what I do and has supported/indulge me to some extent. I guess I’m lucky.

            I hope she comes around to help ya, that is a true partnership.

            Keep the faith brother and remember that tomorrow is another day. If we make it thru the night, half our problem is already solved.

            Be true to yourself first. The rest? Even I have not figured that out yet.

            Y’all play nice.

            hillbilly SC

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        • Facebook Page says:

          Start over if you don’t want this to be an issue for ever. Get a new one. It will be cheaper now than later

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          • Indy Colts says:

            She has too many other assets to start over; and she generally doesn’t say much. I’ve been with way worse.

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            • Facebook Page says:

              The key is knowing before hand.

              And it might be she is just scared and in the back of her mind she happy you are doing it for the family.

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        • patientmomma says:

          Indy, my husband was similar to your wife. He used to say I was an alarmist and over reacting. Over the years, the world got smaller, people got lazier, and the government went in to huge debt; he saw these changes and softened his attitude. As long as there is no impact on your wife, i.e., she can shop, drive, and work, she won’t see the need. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree – it’s like my husband loved to play golf but I thought chasing a white ball was dumb. We respected each other enough to let the other do what we wanted:::he played golf and I prepped.

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        • Kindle says:

          “I asked her if she’s willing to give up liberty for security… and she of course said yes.”

          What other “assests” could offset the above? How could you really trust her in a SHTF situation if she’s willing to give up liberty?

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        • Rick:) says:

          Married for two years. Your not vested yet! Your still on on your honeymoon.
          It’s kinda how they tell a baby’s age in months for the first two years. Marriage doesn’t count until you get to 7-10 years.
          Just messing with you. June 2 is 30 years for us btw. And I’m only 29!

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          • Indy Colts says:

            Thanks everyone for your opinions. She’s generally a passive person she I assume she don’t always understand I’m trying to protect our family. In a SHTF situation, I think she would follow my lead and know I would be doing my best to keep us alive.

            GOD BLESS

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    13. Soooo…I have Eagles bought 15 years ago and junk silver bought in the last couple. Now what do you think this will buy you in TEOTWAWKI? There will be fakes everywhere. Do you think everyone will have scales and assorted testing equipment when you want to buy or sell? Do you think most of the population will know the weights and measures of silver? Do you think they will take your word that you are giving them the right facts even if you have all the equipment? Most have no idea what the weight or “ring” sounds like. They will say “Hell, that’s only a quarter. I’m not giving you much for that.” They would probably accept an FRN before junk silver at anything other than face value. You would have to search out the like minded 1% to even get the value out of your PMs. I think most of us still believe in some sort of “reset” where your silver will still be valued as it was with FRNs. Not gonna happen. The end of the industrial age is coming. Money will not be worth much. Real things like food, water, wood heat and ammo to defend and get meat will be money. Of course, if your SHTF scenario differs, I will not convince you otherwise.

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      • Facebook Page says:

        The PM wont work until a system starts to rebuild.

        They will not be used for one on one trading in the street at first. Except by the Black market hustlers which will be there to take advantage of the persons.

        Think a trading post. The owner will be skilled and know how to weed out the crap.

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    14. Jasoncookies says:

      Am I the only one who thinks it would require less work to earn money honestly than to come up with elaborate scams?

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    15. Dirk Dickwad says:

      Got my pm’s years ago. I’ve got a very large storage space so I’ve been filling it up with cases of Rum and brandy, kerosene, hand tools, plastic buckets, and canning jars, well pumps and pipe, plus a whole lot more

      If I buy pms now it is from a high end Jewel Shop in the form of wedding rings, ear rings and stuff like that.

      I’ll let who ever gets them after I’m dead worry about what their value is/taxes.

      No Chinese bastard is making fake Captain Morgan, yet!

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    16. Jim (another Jim) says:

      Just saw this and had to share. Sorry it is off topic and kind of long Mac

      There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country’s government and install a new communist regime. In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked: “Do you know how to catch wild pigs?”
      The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said that it was no joke. “You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the
      woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn. “When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the
      fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence.
      “They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. “The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon
      they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.” The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America ..
      The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for earned income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually
      lose our freedoms, just a little at a time. One should always remember two truths: There is no such thing as a free lunch, and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself. If you see that all of this wonderful government “help” is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America , you might want to send this on to your friends. If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably delete this email. But, God help us all when the gate slams shut!

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      • Jim(another Jim). Great synopsis. Living in the tidewater area of the PROMD, I tell others who care to listen, that our rights are like the constant erosion of the shore line. The tides, storms and winds cause constant erosion of the shoreline until the water is at your back door and threatening to take your house. It is however slow, and most don’t really notice until its too late. The wise man does notice and installs rip-rap(large stone) or bulkhead to protect the shoreline.

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      • patientmomma says:

        AMEN!! WIld pigs, frog in the pot; welfare generation. All the same.

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    17. Satori says:

      H7N9 update

      131 cases
      and death toll now up to 31

      I think FluTrackers probably has the # of cases 1 or 2 higher
      but their site is down at present

      http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2013/05/h7n9-dr-mackays-latest-tally.html

      H7N9 in its current form can’t cause a pandemic
      because sustained human to human transmission is not yet happening

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/h7n9-pandemic-bird-flu-strain_n_3223422.html

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    18. Eisenkreuz says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9a9PYp94T8&list=WLKXsYsObAuoRfcRir48vhjNh3OKKzAivK

      THIS IS REQUIRED VIEWING FOR EVERYONE ON THIS SITE.

      It contains some mandatory information on the evolution of the American legal system, as well as the advancement of legal theories pertinent to constitutionalists. Note that the video was made in 1995 and the gentleman is speaking about gold and food and the economic collapse.

      I am just discovering the sovereign citizen theory; I do find it a highly interesting argument. Is this new to you guys as well?

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      • I know the freeman sovereign movement has been around for, well, forever. I did a good bit of reading on it a couple years ago. Did you plan on challenging the current powers as to their jurisdiction over you? Good luck with that. If you read some of the comments from LEO on the PoliceOne website, they consider sovereigns to be “paper terrorists” in their own words. There is a good writeup called “The UCC Connection” The fellow who wrote it, Howard Freeman, (could be a pseudonym} died in the early 90s. He explains how to fight traffic tickets,etc. and claims to have not paid income tax for around 20 years. He explains how he did it. It makes for interesting reading, but I think (and this is how Gods Creation explained it) that if you enter the courtroom to fight a charge you are entering the state jurisdiction and by doing so, you acknowledge their jurisdiction over you and cede your rights as a sovereign. Personally, I tend to agree with GC that the only real way to fight the state’s power is to withdraw from the system as much as is possible. This is nearly impossible for most of us. Of course, you could choose jail time to make your point…much like Peter Schiff’s dad is doing now. That guy has mucho cajones.

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        • Eisenkreuz says:

          I don’t believe in refusing to pay speeding tickets or driving without a license plate or tearing up your papers. The point is that if the government wants to do this shit it should AMEND THE CONSTITUTION AS IT IS REQUIRED TO DO. EVERY LEGAL ARGUMENT THE SOVEREIGNS MAKE IS ACCURATE AND WELL-DOCUMENTED. THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RESPONSE EXCEPT FOR FUCKASSED KINGDERGARDEN INSULTS LIKE CALLING US “CRAZY” AND “DANGEROUS” AND “CONSPIRACY THEORISTS”. EVEN THOUGH THEIR OWN DOCUMENTS CONFIRM THE FUCKING CONSPIRACIES. THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO TEACH ANYBODY.

          JUDGES AND LAWYERS HAVE CREATED 60 MILLION FUCKING RULES AND REGULATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY. BUT THE JUDGES GET BUTTHURT WHEN YOU USE SOME OF THESE RULES AGAINST THEM IN COURT. SHOVE THE PIGS BACK IN THEIR BOX = THE CONSTITUTION.

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    19. clyde says:

      When U.S. trade dollars were used in China circa 1900 the merchants would test them and then put a stamp on them. They called them chop marks. I have some, and can recognize some of them as having the same mark, even though they are in Chinese. Im sure this will not end well for some of the big PM dealers.

      Invest in lead bars. If you can pick up the coffee can full then its probably fake, LOL

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    20. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      The Smart Preppers last item to stock is a basket of p.m.’s -

      After you have All the rest of your preps weapons ammo med supplies shelter vehicles fuels stored and stocked up on .

      then buy …

      solid 24k jewelry
      pre-1964 coins
      golds silver coins bars (1 ounce size best) (grams are best for trade)

      Hint – * buy only straight from the established mints , if buying locally buy only newly minted stock from the mints confirm their point of origination with your seller dealer or don’t buy .

      learn the tone ring test , weight test , acid test , bring proven real coins and bars to purchases with you to compare designs and weights of coins to be purchased . if it doesn’t feel look right walk away .

      Hint – * get to know your local established jewelers now they can teach you alot , plus you need to establish a biz relationship with them for later .

      why ?

      because it Always will hold it’s value and will give you ‘ leverage ‘ in hard times when you need it most .

      MONEY IS POWER INFLUENCE !

      REAL MONEY IS PRECIOUS METALS !

      there will always be a market for pm’s you just have to find it or create it , only carry and trade what is needed for small sales , only trade with established folks with roots you’ve known for 5+ years who are known for being fair . if you don’t know them trade for small items only a few times to see how fair they are and watch your six 6 walking home , travel in groups trade in groups for security , keep your stash buried deep in a place no one can watch you go to it , also them that setup up secure safe fair trade markets first for local commerce will be them who have the local power .

      and don’t be surprised if human bondage slavery is reborn in a shtfplan event – human physical sexual slave labor will because a form of currency as well .

      ;0p

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      • 4 Skin says:

        Let’s hope if the last thing you mentioned happens you finally get some action, Jackson

        Might clear up your zits!

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        • 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

          nah … i’ll stick with hairy mary palm .

          she gives me all i need doesn’t cheat doesn’t care how much money i got disease free costs nothing easy clean up no kids popping out in 9 months she doesn’t need to be held after nor talked to while having sex and she always knows what i like .

          ;0P

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    21. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      Robert De’Niro is my new Hero , the HollyJewWood Zionist’s will not be pleased ;0P

      http://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/945653_130418327152858_1809520829_n.jpg

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    22. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      Don’t be CIA’s Next Patsy – 10 Preventative Steps

      An increasingly common pitfall
      in modern life is finding that you
      have been blamed for a CIA false flag.
      These practical steps will help
      avoid this perilous predicament.

      http://henrymakow.com/2013/05/How-to-avoid-becoming-a-patsy.html#sthash.PZsxPdTl.dpuf

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    23. Mountain Trekker says:

      Just in case anyone missed my comment on yesterdays post. If your interested! WYOMING FREEDOM CONFERENECE will be held at Fremont County Fairgrounds in Riverton Wyoming. Sat. May 11—-10Am to 4PM For Info call Jen McCarty at (307)332 9102 I’ll try to be there myself, no event is ever close in Wyoming. Ain’t it great. Trekker Out. FREE MEN OWN GUNS,SLAVES DON’T!

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    24. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      Wow … if you can’t trust The Chief of the Sexual Assault Prevention and Response branch of the U.S. Air Force

      Who can you Trust !?

      He was arrested and charged with sexual battery in Arlington over the weekend.

      And You want these folks on the Streets with M-16 Full Auto Rifles during a ZOG FEDGOV planned False-Fag Martial Law Event !?

      good luck with that one .

      http://www.arlnow.com/2013/05/06/air-force-officer-accused-of-sexual-battery/

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    25. ChickenLittle says:

      I just shot holes in all my silver and they were authentic. Anybody want to buy some holy silver?

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    26. CrabbeNebulae says:

      Come on people… If the fakes are so good you can’t tell the difference then why don’t we all just use the Chinese fake coins for real currency? That would throw a really BIG monkey wrench in TPTB’s plans. Jesus Christ!!! we already use fake paper money! At least fake coins have some intrinsic value. Doesn’t matter whether they are gold, silver, tungsten, lead or depleted uranium… WTF!!! The English used fucking sticks for money for almost 600 years! Tungsten makes good bullets and zinc makes good Pecan tree fertilizer! So what if Tungsten has been “deemed” ecologically incorrect… and the Army has allegedly stopped making tungsten bullets because they “pose risks to humans and ecological receptors.” What a bunch of fucking morons and hypocrites… they use depleted Uranium instead. Get a life people, use hard “fake” currency or fake monopoly money what difference does it make? I can see it now, the Chinese flood our country with “fake” coins trying to cash in on our stupidity and crash our economy and we just keep on keeping on using their “fake” coins along side our “fake” paper money. How more bizarre can it get? LOLOLOL!!! Goddamn!!! I think I’m going out on the back porch and take a big slug from a wine bottle, count my chickens, listen to moon and talk to the smoke.

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    27. I know I’m going to get thrashed on here for this, but I don’t get the gold & silver hoarding.

      The stuff is ridiculously overvalued, and has a very limited use value. If the economy collapses, everything will have exchange value so the only real difference between gold and any other commodity will be that you can’t do anything practical with it.

      Give me tools, food, clothes, and ammo. I can buy a lot of that stuff for the current price of an ounce of gold.

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      • yental says:

        “Historically”, including recent (60+ years ago), both gold and silver have maintained an intrinsic value in both recovering, and re-established monetary systems. Untold/uncounted numbers escaped tyranny having these metals to trade for security/escape.

        That said, ALL of the other essentials you describe are much more important to immediate survival. Gold/Silver storage are for any fiat toilet paper still left after ALL other essentials are squared away.

        But, the day will come when having some PM’s will help determine YOUR status in the coming reality and newly established “exchange”.

        Compared to the current Stock market, dollar exchange, and all other economic parameters of “wealth/safety”…Gold/Silver are anything but overvalued in “the long run”. The “fiat price” is a steal…just qualify your purchase source.

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        • Though I’m skeptical, I get what you’re saying. You may have a point about re-establishing an economy.

          On the other hand, that will most likely only matter to people who can acquire obscenely large amounts of the stuff… in other words, the people who are rich in this system may well find ways to be rich in the next.

          From my point of view, a few dozen ounces of gold buried in jars in my back yard just won’t be better than buying $100,000 worth of practical commodities and tools that will help me make stuff or produce energy absent the safety net of fully modern technology.

          I do think that gold and silver are overvalued in relation to their actual industrial applications in the current technological complex.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    28. Watchman says:

      Defining “victory”?

      Easy.
      1) Survive the first die-off.
      2) Keep your kids alive.
      3) Kill the enemy.
      4) Keep fighting.
      5) Stay alive.
      Any questions?

      Keep the FAITH
      Watchman

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      • LIfe in corporate America says:

        In a day to day setting… keeping the job.

        I’m building a crew of my own IT guys.
        The mgt. see us as a force..a crew and don’t want to take the machine apart.
        We also told mgt. If any of the crew gets fired off…we will all jump ship.

        Strong arm but like the Roman circle….we’ll do well.

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    29. TnAndy says:

      “… I don’t get the gold & silver hoarding….The stuff is ridiculously overvalued”

      Really ?

      Take the silver out of your cell phone and see how well it works.

      Take the silver off the contacts on the light switch you flip on in your house, and see how long it lasts.

      Take the silver off the ball bearing in your vehicle ( or anything else with ball bearings ) and see how much more often you replace bearings.

      ( This list could go on for a couple pages ).

      Now, silver is fast becoming scarce….the US Geological Survey estimates it may well be the first metal to go virtually extinct, and in less than 20 years…..because it’s so important to so many industrial uses and yet, scattered to the winds by the small amount used per unit.

      If you don’t get the 3-4,000 years monetary use of silver, then at least get the industrial use.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

      • Yeah, but you’re assuming that the technology will be uninterrupted in the event of a global economic breakdown.

        What can you use gold for on your sustainable farm?

        Ans when I say they’re overvalued, I’m speaking in reference to their value for industry right now. It’s the hoarding that’s driving up the price.

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        • Overvalued? Sorry Selkirk… PM’s are very much undervalued.
          But, not as undervalued as it was when I got silver at around 3-4 dollars an oz, or my gold at 425…

          I could sell any time and make out, but I won’t. I will hang on to the bitter end of fiat if possible.
          If civilization hangs in there, and hyperinflation comes on strong, you will WISH you had some. It is a form of diversification into an alternate asset class, insurance against fiat failure or the stupidity of governments. It is NOT an ‘investment’ in the standard way of thinking about it.

          But I only recommend it after you have everything else you need… I also have lots of other PMs; lead and copper, brass and mercury…

          Thus lies the problem sir… valuation in a fiat standard that is changing and diluting. Nobody knows what anything is worth, and that will get worse…

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          • Commodity money doesn’t solve that problem. whenever gold is worth more than its industrial value, it is effectively functioning as fiat currency and is as dependent on the state of the prevalent economics as any paper currency.

            Mark me, I’m not saying it will ever be bad to have a bunch of gold, silver, copper, and whatnot. I’m just saying it’s no magical bullet; gold will not somehow be worth more labor time after a global economic failure than it is now.

            That’s what I mean by overvalued: the exchange value of gold is far above its use value at present. When the system of exchange falters, gold will only be worth its use value.

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        • TnAndy says:

          Selkirk,

          And you’re assuming there will be a global economic meltdown.

          Although I tend to agree it sure looks like we’re headed that way, you can’t disregard 100 years of history of the bankster run FED that says a long, slow slide into oblivion is the plan. In which case metals are the place to store EXCESS funds ( after one puts away a few Mayflower van loads of stuff, which I have ).

          The value to industry is FAR greater than the current price. Given a cell phone uses only a few grams per phone, if the price doubles or triples, it would add less than a buck or two to a couple hundred buck phone.

          Solar panels (large ones…200w + ) use about 20 grams, or 2/3 ounce each. If silver doubles, that adds 15 bucks to a 300-400 buck panel. Not that big a deal. (By the way, solar is becoming one of the largest single users of silver…and that silver is going to be locked away for the next 20-30 years ).

          What use is gold on my farm ? Depends…..so far, I’ve bought batteries for my solar, and both my doctor and dentist are glad to trade services for it. I honestly haven’t tried to buy much with gold as long as folks are still taking paper money, but my guess is it will buy a LOT more for me, and the farm, long after paper money is being burned for fuel.

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          • TnA,

            I’m not assuming that there will be any kind of a meltdown whatsoever.

            I’m saying that if there happened to be some collapse that was dramatic enough to completely undermine our currency, it would probably also compel people to rely on simpler technologies. As such, the industrial demand for gold would be much lower.

            Solar power, for example can’t compete in the current market with federal subsidies and environmentally conscious consumers. I fail to see why it would suddenly be our most important energy source during a time of economic hardship.

            Where your farm is concerned, you may find uses for gold. I maintain that you won’t find that many in comparison with say, .22 ammo or pliers and hatchets. Per the law of supply and demand – and that will continue to function after a collapse to be certain – your extra hatchets will be worth more then than gold will be.

            Once again, I’d rather have the tools, food, and ammo than the gold.

            Anyone who is hoarding gold is banking on the exchange value of gold going up, no matter what the circumstances in the world. It will eventually, and inevitably, go down.

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    30. OutWest says:

      Be informed—get back in the fray

      Don’t you be resting on your laurels now.
      The lines between collectable silver and bullion silver
      on this thread is beginning to blur. There has always
      been counterfeit silver coins of rare and low mintage
      strikes, as this article suggests, but in all my years
      as a numismatist and a bullion junk coin aficionado, I
      don’t ever remember coming across a spurious “run of the
      mill” junk silver coin.
      Care to throw your hat in the ring on this?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    31. RickInOregon says:

      Another homesteading weekend is finally finished and here it is Monday night. Been building a turkey coop for the three turkeys that we picked up last week. I’ve never raise turkeys before, they can’t be much different than shitkins other than longer lived. We named them thanksgiving, christmas and practice. We also picked up 15 shitkins (cornish x) a couple weeks ago and they’re almost ready for free ranging. Pork shoulder was on sale for 1.49 a pound so we picked up 30 pounds on saturday and made hot sweet italian sausage on sunday. Just now put the last bag in the freezer. At the end of the week I’ll be crewing on a sport boat for three days of halibut fishing and the forecast is for flat water. I talked with the skipper and he plans on also dropping crab traps and then an evening trip back out for rock fish. Picked up a new purchase order to prototype some battery contacts for a customer of mine, so I’ll be married to my computer for half a day doing some cad work and flat blank layouts, then sending the files to my EDM vendor, make some tooling prints for my son to built the short run production tools. I took a little time off today and took the alternator out of my boat and tomorrow morning I have to run it over to a shop to get it rebuilt.

      It’s good to be busy, it keeps one sane. Think I’ll pour an iced tea and play my guitar.

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      • RickInOregon says:

        I almost forgot, the prototype battery contacts will be made out of beryllium copper, heat treated then “gold” plated. I knew there was a precious metal involved somewhere.

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      • sixpack says:

        Turkeys are pretty easy to raise, but beware, they CAN be aggressive if you pester them, especially the male. They will bounce up off the ground and spur you with their talons—(think 30 pound rooster here).

        Birds all have a very strong bone in their wings that can leave quite a bruise if they hit you with it.

        We raised chickens, ducks, geese and turkeys when I was a teen…I had a pet pigeon, but that’s another story…

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    32. oUCH says:

      Off topic but important.. possible coming to a Gulag near you ? http://www.naturalnews.com/040214_seeds_European_Commission_registration.html

      Now the EU wants to control seeds for home gardeners.. meaning growing your own food could be a crime.. as would be your grandma’s heirloom seeds that she left you..

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    33. EastsiddeJoe says:

      Just a personal note on buying junk silver/constitutional silver. I’m talking about 1964 and older US dimes, quarters and halves. A couple of years ago I decided I would not pay more than 22 times face value for these coins. Just an arbitrary figure that seemed to be reasonable when spot silver was bouncing in the $30-50 dollar an ounce range. I didn’t even look at junk silver until the silver spot price dropped below $30 an ounce, then I would start watching. Recently I have done some more stocking up with silver spot in the low 20′s, which meant I could get junk silver as low as 17 times face value. Dimes are usually the best buy because some places will charge a premium if you ask for halves or quarters only. Dimes do take up more storage space though. If you buy locally you may have to pay sales tax but there’s no record of your purchase for anyone to trace. Buying online leaves a paper trail, and you may pay shipping and insurance charges. The premiums on Silver Eagles has gotten just ridiculous in recent weeks. I’m not going for a $5 premium per Eagle! Stories about counterfeit Eagles surfaced probably 3 years ago and I just got spooked on buying them.

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    34. Be informed says:

      You know what? With the world ready to implode, I sure don’t see too many cans of food be counterfieted. I pretty much know that can of Tuna with a Starkist or Chicken of the Sea is legitimate. I pretty much know that can of food is going to supply me or others with something that will help prevent starvation. I pretty much know that bottle of water with an Arrowhead or other company name on it is going to help me or others not immediatley die of dehydration. I pretty much know that the food, water, and other supplies is not faked and is real.

      Right now we are all at a major junction point at which basic survival supplies must be there, or someone ends up dead or really suffering when this happens, whatever that might be. Money in the form of hard currency is important, but what is more important is having what you need when the grocery stores are closed and the water doesn’t run. This is foremost the first line of defense, then precious metals. Coins are probably the safest or precious metals from a licensed and respected dealer, like the ones mentioned on this web site.

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    35. >> With silver having recently achieved all times highs and currently trading at around $25 per ounce… <<

      Sorry, I stopped reading after this phrase. One has to avoid making ridiculous statements like that to retain a shred of credibility, even if the information one tried to deliver is true.

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    36. 4x12x50 says:

      One big reason for the length of the Dark Ages was the lack of a common currency. Bartering is very cumbersome. The chronology of events, or timing, if you will, is what will decide the value of different commodities. PMs will be highly in demand in the beginning of the reset and afterwards. IMHO passing a counterfeit coin will at some point be like horse-stealing in the Old West.

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    37. ShouldaCouldaWoulda says:

      Cheap fakes from China? What will they think of next? Cheap fake Cadillacs?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    38. I big cache of fake coins in a safe would be some handy insurance . Say 80 lbs pf fake punces for criminals with and without badges to “confiscate”. )

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    39. GeorgeW. says:

      A scratch board and chemicals for each metal will eliminate these scams and save everybody their hard earned money and time. Since time is money!

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    40. Barn Cat says:

      That’s why you only buy junk silver. Preferably dimes.

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    41. When buying silver always remmember Real silver coins are always heavier than their copper-nickel clad variants.Look closely at the coin’s details.This is the quick ways to help you gauge the purity of your silver.

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    42. To avoid such scams, i trust to invest in paper gold. It reduces or nullifies the chance of getting the fake coins.

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