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  • Clarocet for Kids
     

    Liquidate IRAs and 401Ks or Suffer Grievous Losses

    Mac Slavo
    December 8th, 2010
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (66)
    Read by 2,188 people

    As government ramps up spending and continues its attempts to stimulate the US economy, Americans are being further burdened with an irreversible debt liability. The fact of the matter is that US government tax revenues, which are roughly $4 trillion per year, are nowhere close to providing the amount of money that government needs for current and future expenditures.

    This means that at some point in the future, when government comes under pressure from debt buyers to raise interest rates in order to offset the risk of a depreciating dollar and potential for default, the interest payments on our debt will rise significantly. Some estimates suggest that 60% of our outgoing payments will eventually be interest – a number so large that it will literally destroy the US economic system as we know it. At some point, our international line of credit (provided by China, Russia, Japan, et. al.) will be cut off.

    In a last ditch effort to prevent complete financial, economic, political and social collapse, the government, like those in Argentina and Hungary, will move to seize private assets of Americans. Those assets are primarily held in IRA and 401k retirement accounts and they will become the targets of government intervention.

    If you’re not sure what to do to prevent your wealth from being wiped out, we recommend Elitists Leading On An Odyssey Of Economic Ruin by International Forecaster Bob Chapman for some insights:

    Considering what the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury have done over many years we believe we can expect a continuation of fiscal spending and more money and credit to be injected into the economy. That will lead to higher inflation, which could lead eventually to hyperinflation. In preparation in businesses or professionally, or individually, your cost of doing business or living should be reduced and those savings should be used to purchase gold and silver bullion coins and shares. This is the only way you can protect your investable assets. Business and job opportunities have already fallen off a cliff and we believe that situation will get much worse.

    Many of you have IRAs and 401Ks, which we have said your government would like to get their hands on. They are not going to stop pursuing these savings, so you have to act before they do. The government desperately needs that $6 trillion. These funds are at risk, even if all you have in these vehicles are only gold and silver coins or shares. If legislation is passed confiscating these assets and you are given a government guarantee on return, you end up with 100% of nothing. Based on that IRAs and 401Ks should be systematically liquidated with an eye toward tax consequences and penalties. Those who refuse to do so will suffer grievous losses.

    If the dollar loses 50% of its value versus other major currencies or even more versus gold and silver you will suffer a major loss of buying power. Those are losses versus inflation. If we have hyperinflation the losses will be even worse. That means you have to get a loan against your 401k and invest those funds in gold and silver related assets. 401Ks and pensions are invested in stocks, bonds and other possible illiquid assets. If the stock and bond markets fall you could lose a big part of your savings. Get whatever you can out now while you still can.

    While we generally shy away from providing investment advice, it is important to point out that having your eggs in one basket may lead to disaster, just when you need your money the most.

    Many financial advisers suggest a balanced portfolio of stocks and bonds. This strategy has worked since the 1960′s, and many advisers believe it will work going forward. Just listen to any Sunday afternoon AM talk show host promoting mutual funds. They’ll set you up with a diversified portfolio of blue chip stocks, US Treasuries and corporate bonds. In the past, when one went up, the other went down – providing security for savings.

    In today’s economic and fiscal environment, however, this may not be the best strategy to take. The risks facing the dollar are real – even mainstream analysts will agree on that. Now, consider what might happen if the dollar does collapse. For one, bonds will detonate – which means that your bond portfolio holdings would crash. Subsequently, as bonds and the dollar drop, stock markets may as well – simply out of panic – and they may stay depressed for years. During the 1970′s recession, stocks saw no growth over a 10 – 12 year period. In the Great Depression, it took nearly 20 years before growth resumed. If you are depending on portfolio growth during this crisis, consider that it might not happen – potentially, your account will dwindle over the next decade or two, rather than grow. Even if stocks do rise, if the US dollar collapses, along with the economy, the price rises in stocks may not keep up with inflation in core necessities like food and energy. Potentially, you could see record highs in stock prices, but they would  mean nothing if the price of essentials went up 100%, 200% or 500% over the same period.

    Rethinking your investment strategy, especially if your time horizon for retirement is 5 – 20 years, would be a prudent idea at this time. While you may not want to risk taking all of your eggs from your IRA or 401k basket and putting them exclusively into a precious metals basket, consider having multiple baskets that include precious metals (and other hard commodity investments). Contrarian financial professionals and forecasters like Marc Faber, Gerald Celente, David McCalvany, and Jim Rogers have recommended that 10% to 30% of your personal assets should be held in precious metals and/or hard commodities.

    Otherwise you run the risk that your private account will soon be managed by the US government under that guise that pensions need to be fairly redistributed to everyone for the betterment of the United States as a whole.

    Also read:

    What is money when the system collapses?

    Wealth Preservation, Investing, and Prepping in 2010

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 2,188 people
    Date: December 8th, 2010
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    66 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Good info.  I agree with the Chapman article wholeheartedly.  I was laid off in March and transfered my 401k to a precious metals IRA in April.  My plan is to liquidate the IRA in January to minimize the tax implications (more income in 2010 than in 2011).

      For those who like to follow Bob you can listen to him on your computer every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 1600 hrs.  EST here: http://www.discountgoldandsilvertrading.net/Radio_Show.htm

      Good luck,

      mm

    2. TnAndy says:

      “Otherwise you run the risk that your private account will soon be managed by the US government under that guise that pensions need to be fairly redistributed to everyone for the betterment of the United States as a whole.”

      That is what motivated me to liquidate my IRA accounts early in this decade.  The talk was around in the Clinton administration, and all you have to do is look forward to Social Security hitting the wall, and you KNOW what is going to happen….the talk will become the law of the land…..for the” betterment of the United States as a whole.”

      I put mine in silver bullion, solar panels and such…..all of which, as it turns out AND wasn’t the main reason I did this, have  provided a nice return on investment…..whereas the stocks I had them in are at, or below ( and some WELL below ) the point they were when I cashed them out.

    3. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. In theory it all sounds good, but what if your 401K plan does not allow you to withdraw  the funds until you retire or quit.  Then when you do take it all out, you have to pay those hefty taxes on it.  Retirement isn’t too far away for us, but figuring out what to do with it is the challenge.

    4. Anonymous says:

      I would tend to say that you are the most prepared here Tn.

    5. Anonymous says:

      Mac –

      How could the government possibly sell the idea that seizing private assets is a good idea, without every single [US] citizen rioting?    thems are fight’n words.

    6. GF – I wish I could give you some advice on this, but I am by no means a financial adviser. I don’t know the ins and outs of 401k’s… If you are forced to hold the 401k and can’t withdraw, are there any funds/ETFs you can invest in with exclusive precious metals and/or commodity holdings? This may be your only option if you can’t withdraw funds, because I suspect quitting your job now is the last thing you would want to do.

      Tn – Great advice for those that are looking to diversify their ‘portfolios.’

      @Anon – IMHO, They won’t have to sell the idea. They’ll just do it. Sure, people might protest in the streets, go to DC, go to their Congressman’s office, etc…. But as we saw with Obamacare and the bailouts, what the people want and what government does are two different things.

      If people are willing to submit to groping at airports and be put on ‘domestic extremist’ watch lists without any real protest, I think they’ll also give up their retirements. I realize this is comparing apples to oranges, however.

      It will, in my view, become our “patriotic duty” to help fund the national debt and save the economy… Those who refuse or protest these new measures will likely be branded as traitors,  extremists, speculators, and greedy rich people by mainstream media and the majority of Americans.

      While there are thousands of readers who read this web site and others like it and understand what will happen over the long-run, there are hundreds of thousands who have absolutely no clue what is going on – they will be the sheep (and the soldiers) the-powers-that-be will use to fight liberty, rational thought and rule of law.

      We’ve become an apathetic society and I am not sure if the majority of people have it in them to rise up and protest, to be perfectly honest.

      Then again, coming after a person’s life savings is a completely different animal than airport groping, and could very well lead to pitchforks, riots and violence across the country. (Which, of course, would lead to a very strong and equally violent response from government)

      The worst thing about it is that even if they seize all of those private assets, it won’t be enough to pay off our current and future liabilities – and once they blow that money, then we’re really finished. The only reason I could see a transfer of retirement accounts from private to public management would be in the event that our foreign creditors pull out of buying our debt, which will be a complete and total disaster – cataclysmic on many different levels…

    7. Anonymous says:

      U r a very yise man!

    8. Mac I agree with your response. My son stated ” Most people have very underfunded retirement accounts and those under 40 years old have, on average less than $25,ooo. “  His point was that it was just not a big enough for the feds to go after but I disagree. There are plenty of people who practice “old fashioned values” and have saved.   And if you have nothing and can pick up many pennies, they add up when you are picking  from millions of accounts. Besides it goes along with the current administrations policies and those of the UN= redistribution of wealth and destruction of American power and dominance.

    9. laura m. says:

      Yes there are  tax penalties for early with drawl.  I’m drawing out my credit union ira starting in jan. 2011 for 12 mo. and  husband will draw his 401k  in Jan 2012. We are retirement age.    This confiscation law has been discussed a long time.  It will probably start out optional.  Mandatory gov. confiscation/control of peoples 401k’s may or may not happen.  People have different investment needs; some choose to invest in stocks, corp bonds, muni’s, etc. and draw out partial for cash.   Since our 401 is 100% gov. bonds  now,  it will cont. to build interest as long as there is a balance for many years. He has a fed. gov. civil service 401k.  If the gov. mandates a communist takeover of retirement funds then civil war will break out big time.

    10. lostinmissouri says:

      I bailed out of all our IRAs in 2008.   Paid the early withdrawal,  and the taxes,  and then put everything in gold/silver coin.    I took a dollar hit, on the penalties/tax,  but now my money is totally out of the FRN system……and doing  very well.   Gold in 2008 was still mid 800s when I converted.

      If you really think things are going  SHTF,  then what are you waiting for?   Get your money out , now!

    11. Hal says:

      …Damn right the govt needs to take everyone’s retirement account and redistribute the money fairly.  Why should people who saved money and postponed instant gratification be rewarded for their selfish conduct.  And let’s raise banker bonuses too; they are so under appreciated.

    12. Anonymous says:

      Yes, but you can’t eat it.  Just My HUMBLE Opinion.  After all it just sits there!  Even thou it took a lot of work just to get there.

    13. michelle says:

      I never had an IRA – but I’ve been advising people to get theirs liquid – and invest in PM’s, food, protection, water filter, soap, toilet paper, etc. – but nobody is listening – or if listening – not acting upon it – it’s so FRUSTRATING to tell people to get ready for what’s coming, then see them doing the same old things they’ve always done…which by “society’s standards” is the “right/smart thing to do”…but the game has changed, they just are not seeing it.

      How can we wake the SLEEOPLE up?

      Mac, I know you and others are trying really hard up here on the Internet but I’m here in the trenches and nobody is paying any attention and they won’t even follow links!

      I will feel bad for them when it happens, but not AS bad since I warned them.  There will be no “I told you so” as there is no point and no joy in it when the “what if’s” become reality.

      “I’m sorry to hear that – now go be cold, hungry, and homeless on your own because I do not have room or food for you”.

      It’s gonna suck.  If everybody would put three months of food away ($50 at the LDS cannery) that’s $200 a year per person.  They could all be saved.  Of course that would be really basic stuff (rice, oatmeal, beans, oil, salt, sugar) but it will be a lot better than NOTHING.

      Wake up SLEEOPLE!!!

    14. Airborne 71 says:

      Don’t think for one second that the feds are going to let you get away with your retirement accounts .  I am willing to place a wager that they are going to cover ALL THEIR BASES with a retro active provision that will say something along the lines of  :  Any money you had in your account over the last one or two years is what the feds want from you even if you have withdrawn and spent it , you will STILL OWE IT to the IRS !!!   Those who are using it as their sole income will owe a percentage of it !   The IRS will not let you just walk away with the cash regardless as to what your income status is , PERIOD .  If you had  it , you will owe it to the IRS .  Watch and see if it happens .  Any Bets ???

    15. TnAndy says:

      Wouldn’t take that bet.  Could happen if the trend picks up speed.

      But my guess is most folks won’t ( or can’t in the case of 401k’s ) take theirs out.  They will continue to let inflation and the Wall St casino ravage them, and the feds will pick up the remainder down the road.

    16. Steve says:

      Yes it ‘s hard to believe that it could happen but remember when it does it will seem like there’s no other choice.  At least, that’s what they’ll say.  Things will be bad.  People will be starving.  I think there will be massive violence anyway.  And once again, the government will be there to “help”.

    17. Tom says:

      Who do you think is “using” that money in 201′s & IRA’s now while charging a fee?  Two countries have taken over their people’s investments in the last two years already.  Google it and see how they got TSA’d.

    18. Tony says:

      I agree cash out now.

    19. Tom says:

      (HAL): I’ve just picked up a fault in the QEIII. It’s going to go 100% failure in 72 hours.
      HAL: I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
      HAL: It can only be attributable to human error.
      Keir Dullea (Dave Bowman): Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL?
      HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you.
      Keir Dullea (Dave): Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
      HAL: I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.
      Keir Dullea (Dave): What’s the problem?
      HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
      Keir Dullea (Dave): What are you talking about, HAL?
      HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it by smoking dope.  Keir Dullea (Dave): I don’t know what you’re talking about, HAL?
      HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that’s something I cannot allow to happen.
      Keir Dullea (Dave): Where the hell’d you get that idea, HAL?
      HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
      HAL: Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this.
      HAL: I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.
      HAL: What are you doing, Dave?
      HAL: I’m afraid. I’m afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I’m a…fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you’d like to hear it I can sing it for you.
      Keir Dullea (Dave): Yes, I’d like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me.
      HAL: It’s called “Daisy.”
      (sings while slowing down)
      HAL: Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I’m half crazy all for the love of you. It won’t be a stylish marriage, I can’t afford a carriage. But you’ll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.

    20. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. Mac – we’re invested in the most Stable Fund that’s offered. During the down turn in 2008, we lost nothing while many of DH’s coworkers lost over half of their 401K’s.  Once he retires, we’ve got to figure out what to do – we do have the option of leaving it as it is.  We’ll cross that bridge when we get there. Sigh….

    21. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. Anon: Hungary confiscated pension plans just like Argentina did!  No doubt in my mind that the US would do the same – they need the money!  For the common good of course.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-26/forint-sinks-most-in-seven-weeks-bux-falls-on-hungary-pension-assets-grab.html

    22. MiVidaLoca says:

      I cringe whenever I read stories such as this.  Pensions and retirement accounts are considered the property of the individual for the purposes of the 5th Amendment.  As such, adequate compensation must be given in return for any property taken and there must be a legitimate reason for the taking.

      As it stands currently, only eminent domain, exercised by a governmental agency (state, city, county) can be used to justify a taking and just compensation (allegedly) of real property.  I sincerely hope that our government does not pass a similar “eminent domain” law regarding monetary property for the “good” of society in order to drain retirement accounts.  The results would be catastrophic.  Of course, they may always do away with the US Constitution and start confiscating, no muss, no fuss.  If that happens, our country is truly dead.

    23. laura m says:

      Michelle:  I wouldn’t tell anyone incl:   friends, neighbors, siblings, fellow church people, co workers, etc even relatives what I was buying/ doing..we are all resp. for ourselves and immediate family.   Keep everything your doing low key.  I gave up on humanity (with very few exceptions) several decades ago.  It’s everyone for themselves so live for self/family. Extended family (siblings, their kids, cousins, adult children on their own) will have to starve, it’s not my or your responsibility as each family is in charge of their household.

    24. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. Here’s another article dated 12/7/2010 specifically on confiscation of retirement accounts/pension funds.

      http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article24828.html
      ———————————

      My hands are tied in regards to ours – don’t know which is worse- the government confiscating it or a plan that won’t let you touch it unless you retire or quit.

    25. Durango Kidd says:

      Its your government, people, take ownership of it. The last election was a step in the right direction. The Second Revolution will take 12 years barring an Act of God, or the creek don’t rise. Get involved!

      Make your voices heard! (while you cash your IRA’s and 401k’s out, of course)

    26. Comments…..One thing that no body has mentioned, is the training that our military is going though, right now, to control American citizens during a time of civil unrest.

      This, alone, should wake up our citizens to the fact that the Government is preparing for a time, in our future, to control it citizens when civil unrests breaks out.

      Also, many of us are aware of the massive sell off of stocks/bonds among the rich/well to do in our country.  The reason is appearant.  The rich/well to do know that something is going to happen that will negatively affect our financial system.  And they are putting there money into tangable items that the Government will have a hard time confiscating.

      I, myself, will be following their lead.  I am closing out my small CD this month, when it matures, and buying silver.  Then I am going to hide it really good.

      For those who are saying that you can’t eat gold or silver.  That is right.  But there has always been a market for precious metals.  If you don’t know where that market is, you better find out really soon.

    27. MadMarkie says:

      The British government recently assaulted the 5 largest firms that provided private, not bank, safe deposit boxes to individuals. They closed the firms and searched through everyone’s safe deposit boxes. They confiscated PMs, cash, jewlery, weapons, etc. The folks holding these private domain safe deposit boxes had to prove that the contents were acquired legally and that tax had been paid on the money used to acquire the property in question. How would you go about proving that grandma’s antique jewlery was acquired legally? Can’t do it? Sorry chump, this jewlery in now the property of the British Government!!!

      Please don’t think that something like this can’t happen here in the United States. DON’T KEEP ANYTHING IN A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX THAT YOU WANT TO KEEP!!! The US govt. went through people’s bank safe deposit boxes in 1933, stole all of their gold and left them with IOUs at a rate of $20 per ounce and then raised the price of gold to $35 an ounce the very next week. Instant profit of $15 per ounce!! Not a bad deal ….. if you’re the government.

      I don’t have an IRA or a 401K. They were closed out years ago; I paid the 10% penalty and the 20% tax and took the ramaining 70% of my money and went on about my business. Damn glad I did. Some friends of ours have lost over 100k from their retirement funds in the past couple of years; that’s a bigger hit than I took when I cashed out.

      Also, who ‘manages’ and ‘administers’ to your retirement savings? Read the fine print and see just how much you are being charged each year in ‘administrative fees’ even if the a–holes loose money for you. Blood may spurt from your eyes when you realize just how much you are being charged!

      Gotta love your government, the banksters and stock marketeers!!! Trust me; NONE of these a–holes have your best interest at heart!!!
      Merry Christmas everyone. God Bless & good luck to all.

    28. clark says:

      In many places I keep coming across the phrase, ~ the rule of law is no more.

      laura m said, “It’s everyone for themselves…”

      It’s the law of the jungle now.

      Airborne 71 said, “Don’t think for one second that the feds are going to let you get away with your retirement accounts…”

      That reminded me of some guys who said the IRS calculated their tax obligation based on prior years income, not the current one.

    29. Dave says:

      Remember, when the feds come for your 401K, it will be:
       “for the children”…
      Whenever I hear that phrase by a bureaucrat, I know that they’re attempting to pull the wool over our eyes.

    30. caryn says:

      Comments…..take a real hard look at what the govt took away from citizens during the depression years and wwII…if you have something the govt wants they will take it!!!  the govt can be just as “mean” as the worsecase criminal and we should not forget that. stash away your money, hide away your valuables and stock up on food and learn some self defense. take all measures to keep what is yours!

    31. Anonymous says:

      Bury it in a Home Depot plastic sched 40 water pipe capped that is PVC glued & aluminum taped (at seal joints) and leave a note that “is clued” to the the one that you love “treasury map” Mona.  Never leave it buried where it is obvious.  Sprinkle steel shot on the surface and leave a FU note in your safety deposit box.  Silver tarnishes, gold doesn’t do anything unless you induce a certain acid.  Chemistry is fun!

    32. Denny says:

      a worthy subject to discuss.  But I tried to ponder a bit about  the mechanics of how they would pull this off.  The wife and I have IRA’s (and she has a Roth 401k on the job).  They contain stock in fine little companies.  The 401k has the usual mutual fund combos.   If the govt takes them from us (there would be hell to pay….)- would they continue to hold my shares in these companies?  I mean, at times the shares need pruning…selling a bit.  Would the feds do this? or hold them as is, win or lose?  If they sold all shares up front to begin with…. many of these companies would tank out of business, imo.  If they held the shares, would that make the govt the major owner of most all public companies (at least the govt would likely be the largest holder of many if not most).  I suppose if there is a wide spread collapse in the overall US economy/currency, anything is possible….. but, I don’t see how the mechanics of this works out.  Wonder if Mac could elaborate further along this line? ……… very useful topic.

    33. Now why would they seize my assets … they can print as much money as they want???

    34. Bill says:

      The wife and I did this 5 years ago and I’ve never looked back at it as a mistake.  We purchased all PM’s with it.  Best thing we ever did.  I don’t remember what gold was but the silver was around $6.70.  We bought $8,000 worth.  Over a thousand ounces.    401k’s are a joke.  Get it while you can before the idiots take it from you…….

    35. Anonymous says:

      Good on you Bill!  To produce 1 troy oz of AG takes investment, skill, luck, taxes, overhead, equipment, energy, sweat, risk, marketing, retail, taxes, blood, hunger, thirst, advertising, handling, postage & many other that I am forgetting, let alone if it is “old” silver.  You finally own wealth that God has promised as real money, his money. Get sum!

    36. Anonymous says:

      “but, I don’t see how the mechanics of this works out….”

      Simple Denny…..they announce, due to previous losses for many people,  that all private, tax deferred funds will now be incorporated into a govt run fund of mainly “safe” Treasury bonds.  All persons owning any assets in tax deferred accounts will have the assets transferred to this fund by the custodian of the account ( you know, the guy that stands between you and your money, and does whatever Uncle Sam tells him to do ).  Those persons will be issued a credit for fund deposited in the new govt fund, and will receive a check along with their social security check when they retire….promise…..honest to God…..lockbox and all…..don’t you worry a second about it……we’re from the govt and here to help……

    37. Denny says:

      lol…..thanks…. yeah, I can see that happening….(not really, but I get your point…… they can rob without any guns).  It’s the converting of all assets in these accounts into the SS funds that I don’t get.  The transfer would end the public markets.  Maybe that is part of the plan?  I just wonder how they convert any value left in your equity in these companies, into some kind of govt ‘currency’/debt form?… which will end public finance of these public companies, and leave them bankcrupt?   It looks like a dire situation all ’round if that happens.  Any payment from the govt thereafter in the form of electronic transfers, etc, for social security or welfare payouts would be at starvation levels after destroying the productive capacity of all public companies.  Still don’t see how they pull it off- but, as the man said, ‘everything the govt touches turns to crap’…

      fwiw, I’m converting a portion of these accounts to gold/silver (to hold at home) as the shares mature, or after a price runup.  Best I can do for now.

    38. Tina says:

      Goldenfox…… In theory it all sounds good, but what if your 401K plan does not allow you to withdraw  the funds until you retire or quit.  Then when you do take it all out, you have to pay those hefty taxes on it.  Retirement isn’t too far away for us, but figuring out what to do with it is the challenge.

      All of you with 401K’s that are still employed and can not get the money out…..there are loop holes. Look for what it called “inservice distribution”. This allows you to “rollover” your 401 into another tax deferred fund like an IRA where you can pull it out. Of course you will still have penalities and taxes to pay but you can at least get to it. It amazes me that companies can hold your (fully vested) money hostage. IT IS MY MONEY!!!!

      Not all companies offer this inservice distribution BUT my financial advisor told me that there was recently a  lawsuit whereas an employee wanted to invest in PM’s but their 401K plan didn’t offer it, they didn’t offer an inservce distribution at the time either. They employee was awarded the suit because the employee had a “potential loss of investment b/c of the lack of options given under their companies plan. By offering this inservice distribution it gives the company an “out” b/c they can never offer everything to everyone. 

      My company, like most are reconsidering it. By not offering the inservice distribution these companies are opening Pandora’s Box and they know it. 

      Only other option is to quit employment and in my opinion that is not an option

    39. greaseman says:

      Comments…..I hate to be a wet blanket, a mister doom and gloom, but there are no good outcomes to this 401k mess.If  the government is talking about taking over private 401k’s, they’re going to do it.  They will leave no source of money untouched till they have control of it all.
           Do some research online, and find out what other governments have done, and are doing now. many are actively pursuing confiscation of private savings to bail out their governments.
         The US government won’t let anything, such as the constitution , stand in their way.  They simply ignore the law.  Look at what the government is doing every day.  They make new laws daily to control more and more aspects of our private lives.  it’s all about Control.  They won’t stop till all the sheeple have been put in pens, and sheared.  The only money they can’t control in the long run, is gold and silver.
          Most of my PM purchases were made from money that I took from my retirement 401k. I see what the government is doing, and I don’t need to hire a psychic to logically figure out what these evil bastards are going to do.  They want everyone broke down, starving, and begging for help.  Their plan is working pretty good so far.
          The only way to fight these moves by the government, is to own gold and silver. Take physical possession, and then make it dissapear.  The same goes with cash.  Take out what you can, and make it dissapear.  if it isn’t in a bank, it doesn’t exist.  make efforts to seperate yourself from their system.  More purchases with cash only, and buy from local businesses to keep the money local.  Learn the barter trade, and develop a network of like minded people.
            As these days go by, there is only one easy decision that has to be made.  Become more self sufficient, and all the actions that go along with that.  When the SHTF happens, just sit back with your family and watch the chaos begin.  When it does, it’s going to be here for a long time.  If you’ve made enough progress in self sufficiency, you and your family will have a chance to make it.
           Good luck

    40. clark says:

      The track record, past performance sometimes indicates future outcomes:

      “We all know what happened to GM after the government stepped in, don’t we?. What about all the investors that trusted the government? Corporate bond holders who decided to stay in the game or shareholders that decided that they would hold their shares, they have all nearly lost everything. ” – ezinearticles

      “Rep. Joe Barton of Texas said,… “With the Attorney General of the United States, … participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that’s unprecedented in American history, that’s got no legal standing, (it) sets a terrible precedent for the future.”
      I am rarely at a loss for words, but I was briefly stunned into silence by Barack Obama’s words during his Tuesday night speech that he would “inform” BP’s CEO that he “is to” create an escrow account. The president has no authority to do such a thing — but neither did he have authority to cram down Chrysler and GM bond holders for the benefit of the UAW. Law is irrelevant, probably not even considered as an afterthought, by this president.” – spectator.org

      JW said, “Now why would they seize my assets … they can print as much money as they want???”

      Because they want all the money And all the marbles And control of all the players. A.k.a. Corporatism, sometimes also goes by the name Fascism.

    41. Anonymous says:

      $10 bill for sale.  Owner wants to buy real money (gold/silver) with proceeds from FRN(s).

      http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/12/08/pkg.10.bill.ebay.KKCO?hpt=T2

    42. Lady Hawk says:

      Confirming this is reality, a Senate hearing was held on October 7th by Sen. Tom Harkin, Chairman of Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee on “Guaranteed Retirement Account”.  The star witness and testimony came from the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).  The EPI policy statement (posted on their website) is an Agenda for Shared Prosperity.  The sell is called – A Plan to Revive the American Economy.  Read the testimony they provided.  (EPI Testimony given by Ross Eisenbrey on the “Wobbly Stool:  Retirement (In) security in America”)

      The bill has been written, a Senate hearing held and posting in the Federal Register for public comments (which I think has expired).  Sounds like it’s on the fast track to become law.

      FYI – want to know what’s ahead?  Read up on the EPI agenda.  In one of it’s topics on meetings, it posts the speaker’s opening remarks which actually thanks the Rockefeller Foundation for it’s generous support and funding.  SHTFplan here, also has more on this topic under “Senate Hearing:  Seizure of 401k Accounts May Be Reality Soon”

    43. egore says:

      The way it works is… The crash protection team does some buying then does a massive sell in the stock market.  Bring it down 20 or 30 percent then the bomster comes on tv and offers to help out.  They will put our 401s and iras in a government secure, treasure bonded fund AND reset it back to just before the “crash”.   The sheeple will jump at it.  After a while they will make it mandatory, just to make it fair for the rest of us.   And that is how the govt comes to own a good share of most of the businesses in America.

      Buckle Up!!

    44. Anonymous says:

      What’s that saying?  Oh yes, if you don’t hold it, you don’t really own it!  Your employers that “offer” your 201′s get a tax kickback including a fee for the crooked broker.  That’s why they call them BROKERS.  Plan A is going along smoothly for the sheeeeple.  Rack of lamb?  Possession is 9/10′s of the law?  Them red skin Indians are sure laughing at us.  You want a stick of gum Chief?  Hmmmmmm, juicy fruit.  I’ll bet you can’t lift that sink up & throw it out the window.

    45. Lady Hawk says:

      They are making it a law.  They don’t have to “market” it.

      -  Why now?  The coming together of the “perfect storm”.  The Wall Street raid on the tax payer treasuries, the greed of the  the power elite partnered with the corruption of government officials - who distain and disregard the will of the “citizens” of the country - a shift to socialism and fascism agendas, the tanking of the economy and the elimination of the middle class by supporting and encouraging massive illegal invasions of migrants resulting in a population of haves and have not’s.

      Perfect timing and pickings for the power elite.  A growing desperate jobless population with many becoming first time food stamp recipients to feed their families.  Then there is the housing/mortgage fiasco with shelter challenged families. Fixed income retired seniors with no cost of living raises coping with inflationary basic needs.  These folks were the tax paying middle class and the haves in this country.

      Then, there are those using the safety net – the have not’s on government run disability and welfare doles.  Further bloated by providing illegal immigrant families with the same food, housing, medical and cash benefits as citizens.  All these non tax payer beneficiaries are of a mind set of being entitled to government (tax payer) support.

      We already know the position of the have not entitlement folks, they don’t care where the money comes from, as long as the cash and food stamps keep coming. More and more, the number of jobless with no jobs to work and the fixed income folks are being rolled over to the have not’s class.   Add up those two groups and that’s a significant number of the populance that depends on government funding for cash, food, housing, utilities and bill paying. 

      What if they were told there will be no more benefits unless the trillions of dollars of  401k’s are transferred to the government to be “fairly” shared with all the have not’s.  Well, I for one, will be outraged, but I’ll  take the money.

      Like the 1920′s Stock crash, there were indicators, but many remained in because they didn’t want to loose anything, yet they stayed and lost it all. (Greed?)  It’s the same with the 401k folks. There are real indicators of this tanking economy and government willingness to seize assets, like 401k accounts.  Then, as England has recently done, raided private safety deposit boxes of gold and jewelry requiring tax receipts or confiscation.  The 401k game and rules have changed, just as they did and are for the ss government administrated retirement system, they just haven’t publically posted them.

      Given the current circumstances, remaining in 401k’s is gambling and sheeple $$$ thinking.  Heed the warnings (2010 legislative bill, Senate hearing, Federal Register public comment request). Or pay the piper.  Whether it is loss from a stock and bond crash or “fairly” reallocated, trillions of 401k dollars are in play.

    46. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. Who here is willing to give the government six figures in taxes and penalties right now?

    47. eugend66 says:

      Liquidate and don`t look back

    48. Lady Hawk says:

      Six figures???  The government is going to be delighted with your contribution to the “Share Prosperity” pot.  What’s the cost if the government seizes it?

      Goldenfoxx, I am  truly sorry for the rock and hard place you 401k folks with hefty investments find yourself.  It is totally unfair, and you have some difficult decisions and times ahead.

      The hard decision you ask does require a leap of faith.  So is prepping.  I took the prepping leap of faith over twenty five years ago, and expected it would be happening a lot sooner.  I was off in the timing, but not in the need and investment to do so. 

      Over the years, there has been waste or financial loss in my how to and what I acquired,  in some instances it was unavoidable, but costly the same.  I chock it up to experience, the prize though, remains the same. 

      Any creative way to overcome the taxes and penalties?  There was a media story about a rich (soon to be governor) was getting  huge tax breaks buying federal park land and holding it.  One of those not real public but legal deals.    

    49. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments….. We bit the bullet–took some investment money cashed it in and paid off our house.  I haven’t looked back and believe we did the right thing – despite the drop in housing prices.  Matters not to me since we don’t plan on moving anywhere and we can live here relatively cheap.  I just can’t stomach giving the government anything – especially 6 figures if I don’t have to–at the moment.  Yes we’re caught between a rock and a hard place–no one can really counsel us to do what is right.  No one knows really what is right and what is wrong. We’re chartering uncertain waters right now. Prepping is not a big deal as I haven’t lost anything – I hate losing money though.

    50. Anonymous says:

      Our government loves us.

    51. overtheedge says:

      Many years ago, I quit working for the government and withdrew my PERS account. The taxes and interest penalty hurt, but I got access to the remaining funds.

      The remainder was invested in a business venture that went belly up. I lost it by my choice. I accept the responsibility. Would I do it again? You betcha, losses and all. 

      I’m happier now and got the equivalent of an MBA by on-the-job investing and (mis)management. Education isn’t free.

      I mention this for a couple of reasons. #1 If you had closed your retirement accounts and paid the taxes and penalties prior to 2008, how much would you have now free and clear (well until you sell). #2 Turns out that Ak PERS is way massively under funded.  Oho! Not fully funded? Sounds like a loss to me.

      We could comment on the collapse of the economy if everyone got out of retirement programs and it would be true. However the masses will ride this dead horse into the middle of the river. Only a few will get off, pay the taxes and move on.

      For those who lament their earliness in pulling out and prepping, consider how far behind you would be if you had only started a year ago.

      To quote Bobby McFarrin, “Don’t worry, be happy.” Opportunities still exist under the present system and even more will come available after the dust settles. Remember first, last and always, government encourages increases in the tax revenue stream. Every business has potential; governmental expenditures are based upon projections of tax revenues.

      The fundamental problems won’t go away. Are you prepared to enter the world of business? If not, what’cha gonna do when your assets run out? Depending on who’s analysis you wanna believe, the ’29 Depression lasted 12-26 years.

    52. Anonymous says:

      Very good advice OTE.  Business gives hard learned lessons.   A Harvard Degree is a degree to begin learning.

    53. caryn says:

      Comments…..for those who are waiting for the poop to hit the fan…you’re late to the party and better get with it and make some decisions while it is in your power to do so. the poop is flying and the velocity is increasing each day that passes…if you just cannot make up your mind about what is going on and what you can do about it, then chances are you are not gonna survive anyway.

    54. Anonymous says:

      You better buy some more gold anyway.

    55. Wandrin1 says:

      I am changing employers effective Jan. 1, and I am nervous that TSHTF b4 I can cash out the 401k. I am not signing up for the 401k w/ the new company, foregoing the 30 % match because I am so certain it will be seized anyway. As for the taxes / penalty. Good grief, pay the 10% because it’s still cheaper than just the tax rate will be in the near future. I’m just very thankful I’m getting the opportunity to do this…that 401k has had a bullseye on it in my mind for some time; knowing that when it gets desperate, the Gov’t won’t hesitate to take them. The fact that amazes me beyond telling is that such a huge percentage of folks you talk to say “They would never do that”. Are you kidding me? The people who want to provide amnesty and free health care to tens of millions of illegals against the expressed will of the people, won’t justify taking 401k’s?

    56. Rick Halsen says:

      Comments…..

      @Wandrin1

      You’re refusing 30%  free money and tax benefits against something that hasn’t happened yet?

      Hmmmmmm.  

      RH

    57. greaseman says:

      Comments…..something that people need to remember on these 401k’s.  no matter what the incentives to put money in there, if you’re not making 10% or so on that money, you’re going backwards.  Plus, once the money is in the 401k, you’re very limited in your ability to get it.  as an example.  my wife’s 401k hasn’t made a dime in 2 years.  Not anything.  I can get the same results in a savings acount, and get the money anytime I need it.  Also, as already  recently shown by our congressional leadership, they are doing everything in their power to take these private savings, and force you to buy useless government t bills.   If they’re talking about it, they’re going to do it.  they are salivating over the trillions in private savings.
          Also, with the current rate of inflation, any temporary tax advantages to the 401ks are quickly wiped out by these ever growing inflation rates, soon to be hyper inflation rates. Another point, if chaotic market conditions start, or a national emergency gets declared, the markets, and the banks will be closed effectively shutting you off from any of your funds.
            So go ahead and pump that money into a 401k, because after all, those bad things “could never happen”.

    58. lostinmissouri says:

      Sense I have no IRAs or 401Ks anymore,  I will be happy to receive one of those  Gov. Guaranteed Retirement  Accounts,  that everyone will get,  after they have taken your money.

    59. greaseman says:

      Comments….. I’m sure mushroom would love to give everyone a crisp new $10 bill for the Christmas season. It would help us celebrate  the fabulous leadership of Bernanke, and remind us of how lucky we are to have their godlike leadership. it would bring us all a warm fuzzy feeling.  How about it shroom??? a crisp new $10 bill for everyone on the board?

    60. Anonymous says:

      Make mine monopoly money.  I’m missing some from the game of Life.

    61. Can you imagine the civil unrest and rioting that would follow a move like this?  The train in the tunnel is getting closer and closer.

    62. Geoff says:

      To      JD:

      Not much civil unrest–most of the sheep would buy the govt’s “guarantee” of 10% annual gain in their “investment.”  This will be a slow train ride towards a cliff, with few people getting off before the acceleration downward reaches epic proportions…

    63. den1313 says:

      I, like lostinmissouri, cashed out in 2007 when I saw that the media had taken out all the stops to get democrats elected. There was no question something was coming down. I put it all in metals. People need to understand that metals are not an investment, they are a way of preserving wealth and keeping it away from the government. If you are really smart you will get it and yourself out of the country for the next decade.

      Nevertheless in 2010 America there are fewer than 1 in 100 that “get it” and less than that who can afford to do it.  I mostly agree with caryn but there is a little time left. Au and Ag have a long way to go.

    64. greaseman says:

      Comments…..The most common problem with 401k’s , is the inability to cash out while still working.  There is no simple answer there.   I will tell you this from experience.  If you are over 55, and taking funds from a 401k that you retired from that company, there is NO early withdrawel penalty.  it only counts as ordinary income.  
        I see that many people still working don’t have any choice but to stay in their 401k, unless they can qualify for  hardship case. Onw might have to get creative.
           One thing that I know most people should be able to do, is to borrow from their own 401k.  You are essentially paying yourself loan interest.  I borrowed money from mine a couple times.  If I remember right, it just has to be paid back by the time of leaving the company.
           Not much time to do anything really.
           

    65. JRobert says:

      I was going to comment, but right now I have to dash. Obama’s people are at my front door with their daily “free” chicken.

      Funny how they always wear brown shirts…..

     
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