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    Marc Faber: Protect Your Property with High Voltage Fences, Barbed Wire, Booby Traps, Military Weapons and Dobermans

    Mac Slavo
    August 8th, 2010
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (72)
    Read by 1,908 people

    Investment guru and publisher of The Gloom, Boom and Doom report, Marc Faber, regularly discusses investment strategies for protecting and building wealth during times of economic distress. He has recommended purchasing gold, silver and foreign assets because of what he perceives to be an impending economic catastrophe in the United States.

    He’s suggested that war, including traditional international conflict, civil war and non-traditional terror strikes, may eventually affect the United States and potentially turn it into what would could be perceived as a third-world country. Even if the US were to avoid a war on our own soil (which is unlikely according to Faber), the economic crisis will lead to serious problems for citizens by driving most into bankruptcy through hyperinflation of the US dollar, forcing most to literally fight for food and resources – thus he sees social unrest and riots on the horizon.

    In addition to investment advice, Marc Faber also provides practical advice for those looking to preserve their well being. His advice is often looked at as a joke, but make no mistake, Faber is totally serious, even if he has a grin on his face when he says that the world as we know it is coming to an end.

    In his latest GBD Report, Faber again advises those with the means to do it, to leave urban areas and seek safety in rural, country areas, preferably farms, and to be prepared to defend that land in the event the worst happens:

    Faber has an interesting suggestion for investors if the plunge comes to pass.

    With tongue apparently in cheek, he says buy a farm you can tend to yourself way out in the boondocks. And protect it with high voltage fences, barbed wire, booby traps, military weapons and Dobermans.

    source: Money News

    For those expecting a full-fledged recovery to take hold and new highs in the stock market, be careful. Marc Faber on markets:

    The market is overbought, and there is a renewed sense of complacency that could get shattered pretty quickly.

    While the stock market is not a clear-cut measure of the health of an economy, most Americans watch only the Dow Jones to determine the state of affairs. According to many, all is well. The Dow Jones is back over 10,000 and the depression, as President Obama himself has said, has been averted.

    Those same perceptions will shift on a dime if the stock market were to collapse yet again – which in our view, is likely going to happen.

    Though the stock market itself will not be the responsible for a hyperinflationary collapse, the resulting government intervention in terms of massive monetary expansion (like we saw after 2008) could very well lead to Marc Faber hyperinflation scenario somewhere down the road.

    In a recent interview on CNBC, Marc Faber sees the crisis accelerating and the-powers-that-be have only one solution they’ll use to try to save the system:

    The Fed would continue to monetize and this is my view. They will never let up. They will print and print and print, until the final crisis wipes out the entire system.

    The Federal Reserve with its policy and with the writings and papers that Mr. Bernanke has published about the great depression that more quantitative easing will be forthcoming. And significantly more.

    Significantly more.

    The take away from Faber? As he’s stated before, it’s going to end in total disaster and you must own gold and land.

    And if you do happen to make it to the boondocks (or are already there) in the worst case scenario, consider the thousands, perhaps millions who will be migrating out of major cities in search of food, clean water, resources and a safe place to sleep.

    Perhaps having several hundred feet of barbed wire stored up in the barn out back isn’t such a bad idea.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 1,908 people
    Date: August 8th, 2010
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    72 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. youcancallmeray says:

      I  love to listen to Marc Faber.
      He would make a great James Bond character  good guy or bad guy and he doesn’t have to be taught that international accent.
      I just wish he would tell us  how he really  feels about the Feds.
      lol

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    2. M Says Huh? says:

      I agree that things are not rosey and that things should be worse than they are… but I’m starting to wonder if those who manipulate the system and run the computerized trading etc. don’t have it all in hand. That we should be deep into a major depression but they’ll make sure it does not look that way to the average person, so that person will keep spending, and the system may avoid reality. I’m getting tired of the doom sayers.
      According to them, things fell apart 2 years ago and the zombies have already eaten our brains, but every day they say “its just about to happen……now…..no   now……wait ……no now…..ok this time I really mean it …..right……n……..o……….

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    3. Tom says:

      serpentine barbed wire

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    4. Mariposa de Oro says:

      My concern is what will the government do?  Will the chaos be used to declare martial law in at least some areas?  Will we find that the government is our biggest enemy?  When I read the EO’s, Homeland Security Bills, and Czar policies, I see some frightening frame work being laid.  I suspect we’ll be living in a police state where the preppers will be targeted and eliminated.  My only hope is that because the government is so cumbersome it won’t be effective.  Of course, it can be ineffective and still be very destructive.  In short, I fear the hardship of a collapsed economy isn’t going to be the biggest threat to survival.

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    5. Bill says:

      If it gets as bad as Marc says, I don’t think it matters what you own.  Except lots of ammo……..

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    6. Mardochee Augustin says:

      I agree with Faber that the US will have a war on its soil. It will be civil war. It will not be what many fellow patriots see,for example many people think when the shtf the people will revolt. In other words they imagine a govt vs militias war. That is not coming,what is coming is a multifactional tribal warlord state. The only thing that has kept America together is the economy and when that is gone you will see factions arise. I see that happening when you have the bad militias(Brown Berets de Aztlan,Black Panther Party,and KKK) and good ones(Michigan Militia,California Militia,East Texas Militia etc) have membership rising in number plus with gangs heavily armed. This is a receipt for disaster.  There are 100 million legal gun owners,about 30 million illegal gun owners and few resources, blood will flow in the street. What is coming will make the Yugoslav wars,and Chechen War look like lazer tag. Community militias will be formed mil;itary hardware will fall into the hands of warlord militias and never ending wars will occur. Cities with populations over 100,000 will turn into Stalingrad and Grozny. People will call this crazy but if you read history about empires how they collapsed and fragment you will see what is coming. Once the dollar is dead the fed will try to implement martial law. Problem is that there is not enough manpower to implement this order. the nation is too big,too many people,too many gun owners. But people will call this cookery talk but when the shtf they will be caught of guard.

      Hey mac I recommend a blovel I am reading it is very good,and also fellow patriots read this story as well. It is called “Indivisible” It takes place after the collapse of the dollar,and it details how the federal govt’s power is evaporating and that the nation is divisible. It details a civil war coming after the dollar collapse. Here is the link fellow patriots and truthers.

      http://goldsteinrepublic.com/archives/category/indivisible-a-blovel

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    7. Gold and land will be the rule of the land …. I guess, quality land anyway, fertile farm land. If people are broke, they can’t buy real estate so prices will fall, but food will be important, and farmers more so.

      Ranger Man

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    8. Paul Revere says:

      Mariposa, don’t worry about the U.S. government. 

      The federal government in D.C is bloated and impotent.   Obama is a liar and a fraud.  Mexican nationals are pouring over the border.  Afghanistan is a lost cause.  China, Russia and KSA are anxious to dump U.S. Treasuries.  Bernanke is uncertain about the future of the economy.  The U.S. dollar index is declining.  Citizens are arming themselves to the teeth for what is coming.  Our fascist government is in it’s death throes.  Talk of revolution in the air.     The Obama give away economic proposals coming out of D.C. are becoming more desperate and more frequent.  This alone should signal everyone that the green shoots lies are just that, lies.  Prepare you family for what is coming, the U.S. government is powerless to stop it and so will be equally powerless to stop you.          

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    9. Mardochee Augustin says:

      Mariposa de Oro there is not enough man power to implement martial law. The government has many plans,but as mike Tyson said “Everybody has a plan until they get hit.” So if they try to do this it will very hard to implement martial law and a police states because:
      1. Not enough manpower. many of our troops are overseas. There are 1 million law enforecment agents,about 900,000 federal agents. That is not enough man power to bring “law and order.” One police officer or govt agent or soldier for 15 Americans. Odds are not good. Also many officers will stay at home to protect their families just like Katrina, instead of going downtown to stop an armed riot.
      2. Defectors. This is controversial. Many say the military will follow orders,others say the military will help the people in a time like this. Both are worng there will those who will follow,but there will be those who will join local warlords(gangs and militias) instead of taking orders from a dying govt.
      3.Armed Americans. There will be some gun confiscation, but many smart America who though ahead will join local groups to protect their town,or community with police who stayed at home. Plus illegal guns will flourish for gangs and some militias. There is 100 million armed Americans about 10% of that knows what is coming.
      4. Information. Many Americans know an economic holocaust is coming in America and they are working local with other people who are like minded. Movies are maid about the Police state this govt will try to do.

      In conclusion the governments plans will fail. This the same govt that failed horribly in Katrina,who thought arrogantly that we will win in Iraq and Afghanistan. If there was a problem in the water supply,food supply,electric suppy. They would be overwhelemd. But when an economic Hiroshima happens which cuts the food,water,electric supplies and not to mention massive armed unrest across the nation. The government will be overwhelmed. Another question with what will the govt will pay the troops,officers,govt agents for martial law? Exactly. America will fragment into a tribal warlord state. With endless wars between heavily armed militias in the urban and rural areas.

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    10. MadMarkie says:

      If it gets as bad as Mr. Faber predicts, then this will honestly be the day that most of the living will envy the dead. The elites will retreat into their DUMBs and leave the rest of us up topside to sort things out amongst ourselves.

      Does anyone have an idea of where I can sign up for class and get my “Warloard” certification?

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    11. Mariposa de Oro says:

      MA,

      It seems we are somewhat in agreement.  I don’t doubt the gov’s plans won’t take a severe hit.  You talk about a lack of manpower to enforce ML in all areas.  I agree, there is not enough for that, however, you don’t address technology and the information gathering on private citizens that is already taking place.  Also, are you aware the Czar John Holdren has authorized a plan to integrate unmanned aerial vehicles into the national airspace?  Look at the damage to the civilian population, UAV have caused in Afgahnistan.  And this when allegedly innocent civilians are not being targeted!  Should that ever improving technology be employed against your average American with his semi-automatic weapon (assuming said registared weapon isn’t confiscated before the SHTF), the results will be devestating.  Don’t forget, that your average middle class American, isn’t like your average hardscrabble Afghani villager.  Americans on the whole have never experienced true hardship, and will likely abandon any principles of freedom in exhange for anything they believe will give them food and security.  The gov doesn’t need a trained military force to do the street fighting.  All it has to do is promise (not necessarily deliver) food and protection to small groups for their cooperation and ‘assistance’ against other groups.  They will turn Americans against each other.  They’ve been doing this for decades with good effect.  I see no reason for it to stop just because the economy has collapsed.   Why would the gov do this rather than help its citizens?  Just look at the people who now control the government at the highest levels.  If you haven’t already done your research, you might want to get started.

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    12. Red Dog says:

      Faber makes one big, wrong assumption.  He assumes the grid will stay up to power the electric fence.  You will need a solar power system; solar panels, charge controller, inverter and batteries. (not for the electric fence).  Also a big propane tank to go along with your other preping supplies.

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    13. Mariposa de Oro says:

      MA and PR,
      You’re not addressing my concerns.  I agree that in the long run, the gov will not achieve total control.  However, have you considered that the legal framework and information gathering is already taking place?  Do you believe the gov will not act premptively?
      Most Americans have no idea what’s coming and have not prepared for it?  Have you considered how they are likely to behave?  Yes, there will be death and destruction, but I believe you’re overlooking how much of that will be caused by  a powerful, technologically advanced government in its death throes, that is run by 1960′s radical Marxists.  I believe the gov will move, in a premptive manner, against organizations and individuals who are wise to what’s coming.  The gathered information and legal framework now in place for Homeland Security will be used.  I don’t see where that is being addressed.  That’s all I’m saying.

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    14. calamityjane says:

      Comments…..I’ve been following this blog for the last 6 months and I really enjoy the articles and especially the comments.   I started realizing what was really going on last year and have started prepping, getting the basics and a few other things. I’m trying to make up for lost time as much as possible. Husband really isn’t on same page, so on my own with this stuff. I can only do so much and am worried about the scenario where people are coming my way only wanting to hurt me and mine. I live in a rural town but not too far from the city, about 30 miles. Does a person need to be in a commune or something? What’s a ‘girl’, (haha),  to do? Don’t wanna be on my own when all this goes down.

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    15. Stan says:

       Right now many people still think things will be ok.  Somehow, someway it will turn out good like it always has.  But as things continue to deterioate and get worse and worse, we will see people begin to wake up to what is really happening– the total destruction of our country. 

      This will begin in earnest in late 2011 and will play out for several years.

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    16. grannyb says:

      Additional military strength will come when the troops are brought back from Iraq. 

      “No jobs available in the private sector, so how about staying in the military and assisting in ‘crowd control and other internal security issues’ so you can continue to feed your family??”

      When the choice is stay in the military or starve???

      We may have martial law for a while, but when we reach the point where the .gov can’t pay or feed the troops, not many will continue to serve. And there will certainly be some troops who will refuse to take up arms against US citizens from the get-go.

      One thing is absolutely certain – it will be ugly.  I just wish I had a better idea of how much more time I have to get prepped. I’ve done a lot, but I have a long way to go. (Actually got a start on the electric fence today, but no barbed wire or concertina!) :-)

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    17. Mardochee Augustin says:

      Mariposa de Oro I agree that those who are in power who are globalist,Marxist,new world order dreamers will use the framework that DHS,the Pentagon,and FEMA have written up for “continuity of govt.” I believe it will try to punish dissenters,patriots,and groups that are against them. But this will lead to angerand resentment. Yes I heard that they are planning to use UAVs against the American people.  And yes they will do what they did in Afghanistan pay some warlords to fight other warlords. .gov will not give up its power without a fight,and they will unleash they true power on patriots.

      In the short term there will heavy crackdowns and violence. But the situation will get worst . There are states that are talking secession now. Secession five years ago was never mentioned. Now your concerns are also my concerns. Many people are not awaken and not prepping,and the majority of Americans do not know what is coming down the pipe,and Americans have had prosperity and will do anything to get it back. That includes giving up freedoms and rights. But when there is an economic collapse,this means a collapse in the food supply,water,and the electric grid. This will overwhelm .gov. Also without a currency with what will the govt pay soldiers,fed agents,and police? I beleive your concerns are that the gov will crush all opposition heavily with the technology it has. But it will the 10% or 5% that will fight back. In the short term the gov will have all the technology, but their plans will fail. You may have technology in the short term but there will be resistance and violence in the long term.

      There is many like us who are warning what is coming. The tea party is warning what is coming if we dont change our ways. But when people will see Washington when the shtf,a dying power promising food and water but not delivering then things will truly fall apart. So yes they pit for example Aztlan Liberation Army against southwest gunowners, but when they see the govt not backing up its promise.Then Washington will lose its power. Many states will attempt to secede,and local law enforcement will be divided by the yessirs,and the conscience ones. Remember Mariopsa the economy is what kept the nation together for 60 yrs. When that is gone then things will fall apart,our nation will tear apart from the seams. Radicals of all types will form local armies in cities,towns. Militias will go to arms but will face infiltration. Gangs will rule and terrorize city blocks. With a collapsing food supply with what will the govt do to preserve it. And when the American people get angry that rations are cold chicken nuggets and bottle water,then riots will lead to revolts. Remember an angry American is like an awakened males lion in the presence of hyenas. So yes executive orders,martial law will be implemented but things will spin out of control.

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    18. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Trying again with the post.  If this turns out to be a double past, pelase forgive…
      MA,

      I believe you’ve described very well what’s in America’s future.  I’m saddened by the amount of citizens who don’t think it happen in America.  They’ll be the hardest hit.  I’m glad I’m not living in the USA at the moment.    I wish my family weren’t there.  Only my 80 year old mother knows what’s happening.  My 22 year old daughter doesn’t like hearing about it.  At least one of my sisters worships at the altar of Obama.  My 89 year old father supports any politicain with a “D” after its name.  Any time someone tries to talk to him about matters he makes accusations of ‘rightwing lies’.  I don’t believe any of them will survive the chaos you describe.  For starters, with the exception of my daughter, they’ll be living in Atzlan.   Though my mother is of Peruvian descent, she’s active in the anti-illegal movement, and has received her ‘warning’ to watch her step.  When I think about what is likely headed our way in the not too distant future, I have to wonder if I’ll ever see them again.

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    19. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Calamityjane,
      I’d suggest trying a little social networking in your area.  Try to find out if aquiantences are like minded.    There are probably others just like you who know something is ‘bad wrong’ but don’t know how to find others who share their concerns.  With a few well considered questions, you’ll be able to determine if you have a potential ally for when the SHTF.   Its unfortunate that your hubby isn’t on board.  I have a similar problem with my boyfriend of 5 years.  Just last night he told me there wasn’t any problem with the economy!  I didn’t push him because trying to cure him of his denial is like teaching a pig to sing.  It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig!

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    20. Sam says:

      Comments…..Fellows, I will give you my first hand experience with civil war, I was 9 years old when it started back in the early 70′s. I won’t go into the war and peace version, just the important stuff you’re discussing. What SHTF the whole infrastructure collapsed, there was no water or electricity , the two main groups got the whole thing started and after that the country went up in flames, there was about 6 warlords that surfaced as the main players, the army collapsed at the same time as the government and the currency, the military hardware fail into the hands of the different warlords, depending on the area where it was abandoned. The country was then divided, check stops were every where , you didn’t want to get caught going into a area where you didn’t belong, that meant suicided.
      living in a village of 4000 people was very safe, most people grew their own food and got water from the two natural springs near by, carried all by hand in 4 gallon jugs, but the people in the big cities suffered badly, some people made it a business to smuggle food and water into these heavily populated cities.
      I say civil wars are the worst kind, they start slow and pick up pace like a raging flame then simmer to a halt, the war lasted 16-17 years and up to this day the country still hasn’t fully recovered.

      Sadly today America has the same symptoms leading to civil war, and I decided it’s best to move back to the old country, why reinvent the wheel, I figure these people went through the war, survived and adapted to a lifestyle of the grid. So when a friend asked me why would you go back to a country like that, I said imagine a person that has being exposed to every disease possible and survived and became immune to all the different diseases, then imagine a person who’s accustomed to the good life of luxury and never being sick, then he gets a simple flu or cold and he dies.

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    21. google: SWORD  – it’s a remote controlled machine gun.  Don’t forget about the new microwave technology they have now to ‘heat up’ a crowd , and disperse it.  Oh, not to mention the aerial drones.  We are gonna be screwed:  technology, the rise of the machines (and the fascist Orwellian government)  are gonna be tough to fight against.

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    22. RedGypsy says:

      I know I am beating this horse to death but.
      Bullets, Beans, barb wire & bandages.

      BTW barb wire come 1320 foot per roll they are small so take several before it gets to expensive.
      Buy the 15 1/2 gauge not the 12 gauge it is lighter nastier and can be put up razor wire style. and cost half as much.
      In most places it is called gaucho wire or high tension wire because you do not have to stretch it.

      RED.

      “Ask me about the health benefits of horse meat ;>)”

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    23. Big Jack says:

      Hey, it’s all good!  Just prepare!  My buddy runs http://www.CheapBarbedWire.com and he says that business is booming. 

      So, don’t think that you are alone.  There are plenty of people who are making preparations to stay safe.

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    24. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Sam,
      I understand why you’d want to return ‘home’.  I’d much rather live among people who know how to be poor, than a bunch of spoiled intellectual children who don’t think being poor can happen to them.
      Does seeing the USA turning into your old country frighten you?  Do you mention this to friends?  What’s their reaction?

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    25. Jonny V says:

      Sam:  Good Luck Buddy!  If you’re gonna go back, then be sure to make your time count for the highest.  I admire folks who take on tall orders and get with it………You’ll be in my thoughts.

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    26. eagleclaw says:

      Look at this.  It keeps getting better & better folks.
      ————-

      If you own your home, this is important to you.  
       
       
      Don’t want to be bothered with “Political stuff?”   You’d better read this one. It will come as a huge shock to you if you aren’t informed as to what Obama is up to, and it has already passed one hurdle.  It will take very little now to put it into actual law!!  YOU’D BETTER WAKE UP AMERICA !!!!
      So you think you live in a free country.
      Boy have you got a surprise coming.

      A License Required for your HOUSE?

      If you own your home you really need to check this out. At the end of this email is the Google link to verify.  If the country thinks the housing market is depressed now, wait until everyone sees this. No one will be buying homes in the future.

      We encourage you to read the provisions of the Cap and Trade Bill that has passed the House of Representatives and are being considered by the Senate. We are ready to join the next march on Washington ! This Congress and their “experts” are truly out to destroy the middle class of the U.S.A.

      A License will be required for your house…no longer just for cars and mobile homes….Thinking about selling your house?  Take a look at H.R. 2454  (Cap and Trade bill).  This is unbelievable!  Home owners take note and tell your friends and relatives who are home owners!

      Beginning one year after enactment of the Cap and Trade Act, you won’t be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this  “Cap & Trade” bill, passed by the House of Representatives. If it is also passed by the Senate, it will be the largest tax increase any of us has ever experienced.
       
      The Congressional Budget Office (supposedly non-partisan) estimates that in just a few years the average cost to every family of four will be $6,800 per year. No one is excluded.  However, once the lower classes feel the pinch in their wallets, you can be sure that these voters will get a tax refund (even if they pay no taxes at all) to offset this new cost. Thus, you Mr. And Mrs. Middle Class have to pay even more since additional tax dollars will be needed to bail out everyone else..

      But wait. This awful bill (that no one in Congress has actually read) has many more surprises in it. Probably the worst one is this: A year from now you won’t be able to sell your house without some bureaucrat’s OK. Yes, you read that right.

      The caveat (there always is a caveat) is that if you have enough money to make required major upgrades to your home, then you can sell it. But, if not, then forget it. Even pre-fabricated homes (“mobile homes”) are included. In effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without the permission of the EPA administrator.
       
      To get this permission, you will have to have the energy efficiency of your home measured. Then the government will tell you what your new energy efficiency requirement is and you will be required to make modifications to your home under the retrofit provisions of this Act, to comply with the new energy and water efficiency requirements.
       
      Then you will have to get your home measured again and get a license (called a “label” in the Act) that must be posted on your property to show what your efficiency rating is; sort of like the Energy Star efficiency rating label on your refrigerator or air conditioner. If you don’t get a high enough rating, you can’t sell. 
       
      And, the EPA administrator is authorized to raise the standards every year, even above the automatic energy efficiency increases built into the Act. The EPA administrator, appointed by the President, will run the Cap & Trade program  (AKA the “American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009″) and is authorized to make any future changes to the regulations and standards he/she alone determines to be in the government’s best interest. Requirements are set low initially so the bill will pass Congress. Then the Administrator can set new standards every year.

      The Act itself contains annual required increases in energy efficiency for private and commercial residences and buildings. However, the EPA administrator can set higher standards at any time. Sect. 202 – Building Retrofit Program mandates a national retrofit program to increase the energy efficiency of all existing homes across America. 
       
      Beginning one year after enactment of the Act, you won’t be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with its energy and water efficiency standards. You had better sell soon, because the standards will be raised each year and will be really hard (expen$ive) to meet in a few years. Oh, goody!
       
      The Act allows the government to give you a grant of several thousand dollars to comply with the retrofit program requirements IF you meet certain energy efficiency levels. But, wait, the State can set additional requirements on who qualifies to receive the grants. You should expect requirements such as “can’t have an income of more than $50K per year”, “home selling price can’t be more than $125K”, or anything else to target the upper middle class (that includes YOU?) and prevent you from qualifying for the grants. 
       
      Most of us won’t get a dime and will have to pay the entire cost of the retrofit out of our own pockets. More transfer of wealth, more “change you can believe in.” Sect. 204 – Building Energy Performance Labeling Program establishes a labeling program that for each individual residence will identify the achieved energy efficiency performance for “at least 90 percent of the residential market within 5 years after the date of the enactment of this Act.”

      This means that within 5 years 90% of all residential homes in the U.S. must be measured and labeled. The EPA administrator will get $50M each year to enforce the labeling program. The Secretary of the Department of Energy will get an additional $20M each year to help the EPA. Some of this money will, of course, be spent on coming up with tougher standards each year…

      Oh, the label will be like a license for your car. You will be required to post the label in a conspicuous location in your home and will not be allowed to sell your home without having this label. And, just like your car license, you will probably be required to get a new label every so often – maybe every year.
       
      But, the government estimates the cost of measuring the energy efficiency of your home should only cost about $200 each time. Remember what they said about the auto smog inspections when they first started: that in California? It would only cost $15. That was when the program started. Now the cost is about $50 for the inspection and certificate. 
       
       Expect the same from the home labeling program. Sect. 304 – Greater Energy Efficiency in Building Codes establishes new energy efficiency guidelines for the National Building Code and mandates at 304(d) that one year after enactment of this Act, all state and local jurisdictions must adopt the National Building Code energy efficiency provisions or must obtain a certification from the federal government that their state and/or local codes have been brought into full compliance with the National Building Code energy efficiency standards.

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    27. Sam says:

      Comments…..Fellows, I have seen this coming for a long time, I started preping back in the 90′s. Most people I know look at me funny when I discuss SHTF scenario,as  most people are totally oblivious to what’s  going on around us and they used to think Iwas crazy to think that way, well I guess I didn’t blame them 10-15 years ago for thinking that way, but now most of them are starting to believe me. I think it’s becoming clear to most people, I sometimes get calls  from people I haven’t talked to for a long time telling me straight out “” Hey pal I used 
      to think you were nuts when you talked like that back then”".  The most important thing to me is the support of my family, they were a little skepticle at first, but now they all agree with with me, brothers, sisters, parents, wife and kids are all aware now of the SHTF scenario I”ve being talking about for the past 15 years.
      Going back to that primitive life style is great, but I have to admit, there are some things we”ve gotten used to that we can’t do with out, electricity, and hot showers every day. So I set up solar hot water heating system, and solar panels for power, the feeling of self sufficeincy is great, I have a neighbor who is a goat herder, when I”m there he brings me fresh milk, aprox 2 gallons for 3 dollars, I”m talking real  milk, not white water like the stuff in our super markets. In the village most people still grow their own food, so there is more fruits and vegetables and grains than the people consume, dug a well and got luck with a great source of water which to me is greater than gold.

      In my world  it’s almost like the future already happened and I”m just taking the right steps to avoid what I already seen but hasn”t come yet, such a concept is sometimes hard to grasp so I don’t bother explaining it. All I can say is we have about 5-6 years left before things turn really ugly, I will split in a couple of years or so.
      I sure enjoy this site, it feels great to share with people of kindred spirit, good luck to all and may God enlighten your path as he has enlightened mine.

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    28. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Sam,
      Thanks for responding.  May I ask what country you came from? 

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    29. orsobubu says:

      @ Mariposa, MA and others

      I apologize for my poor english.

      A little philosophy and political economy advice for you.
      I can see you never studied Marx. His theory (dialectical materialism) states that scientific explanation of society is only one: production systems evolves, and political organization changes accordingly to fit with new production systems. This happens with violence, because those owning the power fights not to lose it. In our age, the production system is shifting to global competition and full automation so (I cannot explain here why) profits and capital accumulation fall. The political system (democracy or fascism) are no more fit with these changes, only communism can control enormous industrial forces of our times (I cannot explain here why).

      But Marxism also says that, inside this unique scientific explanation, the reality moves dialectically among different forces, each against others. This is not contradictorial, because the theory is one and consistent. In our age, the two forces are bourgeoise (bankers, capitalists) and proletarian workers. Each have to act in a “marxist” way, accordingly to theory. So, what you call “marxist US government” will obviously act marxistically because will use violence and war to repress workers and maintain the bourgeoise power (all democratic governments have this specifical purpose, help bourgeoise to subtract money from workers). But workers also have to act marxistically, organizing for revolution and taking the power, control all the production system and establish the communism.

      So, government is marxistic but counter-revolutionary; workers are marxistic but revolutionary. This is (I explained it here with a lot of inaccuracies) the core of dialectical materialism.
      You cannot accuse US government to be “marxist”, because, scientifically, all the real world is “marxist”: you just have to
      choose the side to fight with. I hope you’ll choose the workers’ side and will help any international leninist movement to organize the historical battle in future years. Government and bourgeoise are planniong exactly the opposite, they are preparing the ideologies to bring the workers to divide and fight each against the others, inside a civil war or inside a world war.

      Please, don’t fall in this tragical trap!!!!

      Workers of the world, unite!

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    30. Tony says:

      *TIMELINE*

      Several of you have given a timeline as to when you believe the shit will hit the fan or start hitting the fan. There is much evidence to conclude that the collapse is happening right now. The collapse and the shit hitting the fan are two different things though. We are collapsing now, the shit will start hitting the fan when society breaks down into lawlessness, chaos, panic, desperation, and survival mode.  This is the latter end of the collapse.

      WE MUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THE SHIT CAN HIT THE FAN at any moment. All it will take is one natural disaster, terrorist attack or other national crisis to to cause the fallout. Now is the time to get prepared, because we dont know exactly how long the collapse will be drawn out.

      Keep in mind China and Russia have been making major strategic military moves over the past month. World War is another dimension of the collapse.

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    31. JayJay says:

      Comments…..Max Hardwood
      August 8th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
      google: SWORD  – it’s a remote controlled machine gun.  Don’t forget about the new microwave technology they have now to ‘heat up’ a crowd , and disperse it.  Oh, not to mention the aerial drones.  We are gonna be screwed:  technology, the rise of the machines (and the fascist Orwellian government)  are gonna be tough to fight against.
      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Don’t forget about the ‘vomit’ spray I read about–they don’t even need weapons…this will knock us out if they get close enough—hmmmmm.what range does a Henry HMR have??

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    32. Rick Halsen says:

      “Don’t forget about the ‘vomit’ spray I read about–they don’t even need weapons…….”

      Hey won’t just piping in mass images of Al Gore do the same thing?    I already know it gives me pretty severe nausea.

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    33. Mariposa de Oro says:

      orsobubu
      Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.  Ho hum.

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    34. calamityjane says:

      Thanks for responding Mariposa. I love reading all the comments on this blog. I learn more from them than the articles most of the time. I have another question if anyone has any ideas on this. I might be able to buy some cheap land by the San Luis Valley of Colorado. It’s a couple of hours from where I am now.I have to check on the wells in the area.  It’s out in the middle of nowhere and I guess my question is, do you think it is better to stay close to a small town, even though that means I am also close to a large city  or get more isolated. I was thinking I’d like to be out there til I started reading bout how important it would be to have people around to help defend yourself. I’m stll leaning towards the joining a commune thing, haha. I never got to in my hippie days, must be some unfilled thing of the past. Haha

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    35. orsobubu says:

      >Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

      Too much easy to dismiss Marx, the deepest thinker of mankind, with a few words. According to you, the world as we know it today should be identical to ancient slave empires, millennia ago. Instead, economy (the structure) and politics, society, etc (the superstructure) changed dramatically many times since then. Your philosophy is extremely wrong; it is conservative and metaphysical. The world changes, an you’ve to take advantages from this. It is a loser’ philosophy. If great conquerors of past centuries did think as you, we’d live in misery today.
      I’ll add a little thing, more difficult to understand. Since conservation and metaphysics are not  scientific theories, your theory (which is not revolutionary) turns to reveal what it really is: counter-revolutionary. No other possibilities exist. This theory will support the bourgeoise fight against workers. And the prove for this are the many posts about retirement in inner lands and  accumulating ammo and wires against other desperate workers. Exactly what bankers and capitalists want you to do. Poor Americans.

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    36. Mariposa de Oro says:

      CJ,
      I definitely lean toward isolation with a small communtiy! I’m not too sure about a ‘commune’ though, lol.  I’m living in the Marshall Islands located in the central Pacific Ocean.  I’d much rather be here than anywhere in the continential US.  At least we have plenty of fish and coconuts and the locals haven’t been spoon fed whitey-hatred for several decades by their ‘leaders’. 

      The coming poverty and lower living standards in the US are not what scares me.  Its the hatred of all things white and conservative.  I may be hispanic but, as I’ve been told by non whites, I ‘look white’.   And I’m definitely conservatively and independent minded.  I don’t have much good to say about any political critter with a ‘D’ or ‘R’ after its name.   So far as I can tell, they’re just two sides of the same coin.

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    37. Mariposa de Oro says:

      ROTFLMAO, orsobubu!

      “If great conquerors of past centuries did think as you, we’d live in misery today”.  Well, now.  Since things are so peachy what’s with recruiting for Marxism? 

      I’m not some dopey college kid looking for someone to take care of me.  Your marixian mind trick won’t work on me.    Anyone who needs the mob to get what they want is the loser.

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    38. Chris C. says:

      I believe in life cycles and the law of averages.

      The United States is barely 1/20th of the world’s population and yet we consume 25% of its resources. We have enjoyed this dichotomy for more than 80 years.

      None of this would have been possible without being the world’s reserve currency since the mid nineteen forties, allowing us to export all our inflation, but in a global marketplace this discrepancy has not yet caused problems since other countries have had to devalue theirs as well, just to remain competitive. Amazingly, the dollar has still lost 97% of its value since 1913. It is my opinion it will lose another 97% in the next 3-5 years.

      When SHTF the counties that have no savings, sky high debt, no productive capacity, and dependence on foreign oil will go up in flames. The US may have food production, but will be unable to ship it internally with no oil. So when the currency collapses, we will have nothing.

      By the math from above we have to have a fall in our standard of living by approximately 5x. Caution – that’s just to be in balance with the rest of the world. In actuality, we may fall much further, at least initially, due the conditions mentioned in the previous paragraph. This is akin to being used to making $50,000/year suddenly having your paycheck cut to $10,000/year while your debt obligations remain the same. In short:

      Game Over.

      It’s coming, just don’t know when. Until then I live my life as best I can.

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    39. Sam says:

      Comments…..Chris, to produce food you also need oil to run all the farm equipment, no oil no food production, and nothing to transport. We’ll have to till the land the old fashioned way to produce food, I just don’t think many people remember how to till with a Ox.

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    40. Sketch says:

      @ calamityjane,

      The small town is best – as its still a group of people that you can lean on (and be leaned on), help and trade with. however, its proximity to the “large city” – depending on “proximity”, could be the downfall – if you’re looking for a true mad-max scenario fall-back. If that’s what you’re looking for, then isolation is your better option. You’ll have fewer people to lean on, but that also means that most of the ‘strangers’ will be ‘unfriendlies’, and more easily identifiable. Its your choice how far down the rabbit hole you want to go – just make sure its a rational decision and not being made out of manic fear.

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    41. orsobubu says:

      Mariposa,

      Today mankind lives with astounding extreme higher level of control over nature than 4000 years ago. Don’t confuse the problems of capitalism to control the production system and crises with the potential mankind have to improve (with a more advanced type of social organization) its global conditions on earth and beyond, which is huge. The only alternative to global war and/or returning to lower levels of human lifestyle is Leninism; Lenin was the only politician in history who took away his country from a war (WWI). Marxism teach everyone to take destiny in our hands and fight together; capitalists made incredibly big achievements unifying their powers under state governments, corporations, armies and so on,  world workers have to learn the lesson instead of dreaming to cowardly escape.

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    42. Mariposa de Oro says:

      “The only alternative to global war and/or returning to lower levels of human lifestyle is Leninism; Lenin was the only politician in history who took away his country from a war (WWI). Marxism teach everyone to take destiny in our hands and fight together; capitalists made incredibly big achievements unifying their powers under state governments, corporations, armies and so on,  world workers have to learn the lesson instead of dreaming to cowardly escape.”

      Do you mean the Spanish speaking, nearby workers paradise of Cuba? LOL.  Please explain why my Peruvian family and and 10s of millions of Latin Americans choose to be in the capitalist hellhole of the USA instead Cuba?  Oh nevermind, Marx lied.  You might have better luck peddling your BS ideology at http://www.standupforamerica.wordpress.com

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    43. Mardochee Augustin says:

      To anyone interested in shtf stories read this story. I currently reading it and I  recommend it to Mac,Sam,Johnny V,Sam,Mariopsa and anyone elsew in this website. Its a good blovel. Its called “Indivisble.”  Here is a short summary from the author of it. ‘Indivisible’ is a blovel about total socio-economic collapse in the U.S. and the intersecting lives of a diplomat, a sheriff, a soldier and an unemployed father as they try to survive a modern U.S. civil war.”

      http://goldsteinrepublic.com/archives/category/indivisible-a-blovel

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    44. Dan says:

      The government will do just as they did over a half century ago… World War. The media will make the enemy to be overseas and the good guys will be the corrupt American politicians. The criminal bastard Roosevelt is worshiped to this day. Martial law, currency collapse and the imprisonment of the “unpatriotic” all a replay and part of the plan. The banksters will be safe and getting their hand jobs in Costa Rica. A different will endure just like last time.

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    45. greaseman says:

      Comments….. One thing about these posts, there are some good ideas floating around.  I think we are in the early stages of the collapse. I think the lousy economic news that gets reported everyday makes people a little jaded, and they don’t really pay that much attention to it anymore.  It’s just a continuos stream of bad news. Trouble is, it’s all significant to a certain degree.  it all adds up to a very bleak picture.
            If someone takes the time to look back at history, many times, when a nation falls on hard times, and has some civil disorder, it all happens very fast. I believe we will reach a point where everything will come tumbling down very fast.  Some event will happen, and people will be left with their jaw dropped open, wondering how could something happen so fast.  A shocked nation will be caught totally unaware, as the rest of us tighten up our ranks, and actually drag out some of the stuff we have been gathering for a while. 
           Stores will run out of food quiet quickly, as people panic.  And even more panic will rise when people find out that the banks are closed, and they must pay for everything with cash. people will cry for government help. This is exactly where our devious government wants it’s citizens.  helpless, begging for some scrap of food and water.
           Many people will seek to “cash out’ their 401k’s for emergency cash.  But the stock market will be closed also, as part of emergency presidential orders.  Some national Guard will be seen patrolling the streeets, but as time passes, it willl become obvious that in a large metropolitan area, they can’t be in all places at one time.  Citizens will begin to take matters into their own hands, as the local authorities have their hands full with localized riots and looting.

            After a few days, or a few weeks, it will become apparent to everyone that the problems of the past weeks will be with everyone for a while.  people will realize that they are basically on their on.
           The story goes on, but you can continue it yourself, as i’m sure you have written many chapters yourself in advance of the horrors to come.  take your pick, man made, or natural disasters, they are stacking up like cord wood. We all can see the handwriting on the wall.  I think I’ll grab another gear, and double up my prepping speed. What about you??

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    46. Dan says:

      That is a different America will endure. It will be as different as 1960 America was from 1910 America.

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    47. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Well said, Greaseman.  A good recent example of being caught unawares is 911.  Who ever heard of bin laden before that?  Almost  no one unless they were in the CIA or other security organization.  What with all the msm cheerleading for the regime, indeed, Americans will be caught off guard again.  Thank God for the internet.  That’s the critical difference between now and the 1930/40s.  We’re so much better informed than those poor people of those two decades.  Of course, that said, no doubt the regime will try to take the internet away from the masses.  We’re so much easier to control when uniformed.

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    48. calamityjane says:

      Yeah, I really hate being this close to a big city. Guess I will have to do some pondering on the subject.  I agree Mariposa, I love that name btw, the internet is what brought me around. When things were not adding up and I started searching several hours a day, the more I read the more things started to make sense. Well, in a crazy sort of way. I agree, doesn’t matter whether it’s a D or an R but I don’t know if I would have made such a drastic turnaround in the last year if it wasn’t for our great future dictator O’bummer! I’ve gotten a lot of beans and bandaids but now I have to get with the program on all the other stuff. Man am i behind. You guys are fortunate to have been at this for so long. I can’t believe how naive I was.

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    49. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Thanks calamityjane!   Mariposa is Spanish for butterfly; oro is gold.  Definitely go with your intuition on the move.  Trust it. Its what brought you to the realization of what is happening.  If you want, have Mac send you my email address and we can converse off the thread…..

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    50. Karen says:

      all these forecasters are full of sh&*.  listen to them and waste all your extra money on “survival geaR” and you are going to have a pretty lousy life, the one thing you are trying to survive for.  why try to survive?  just to survive?  live life.  faber, celente, nia, they all have agendas.  they don’t care about any of us.  don’t trust them like they do.  just my $.02.

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    51. karen says:

      also, debt is not everything like all these doomers make it out to be.  check out the youtube video in the comment section of an earlier post.  at one point the U.S. had 120% debt to gdp ratio after world war 2.  why didn’t we collapse after that?  we arent near those levels yet the world is going to end because of debt.  none of you guys have any idea what you are talking about, yet keep prophesying about the coming collapse.  i find it comical.

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    52. Mariposa de Oro says:

      “why didn’t we collapse after that? ” – Because we had the most power industrial base in the world at that time, not to mention a solid work ethic. 

      I suppose that your one of those people who think that because they haven’t died yet they never will, lol.  I’m glad you’re enjoying life.  Be like Michelle Antionette and get while the getting is good.

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    53. orsobubu says:

      mariposa, when you correctly answer to karen “Because we had the most power industrial base in the world”, you prove you are thinking marxistically too. The world IS marxistic, cannot escape from this. Empires rise and fall, and probably far in front of us lies a a dark age of violence caused by the fall of profit rate and by overproduction, factors that unleashed the debt run and the financial mess since the ’90s. Old and new empires will fight their future wars to subdivide again the cake of surplus value made by worker classes. This was discovered by Marx and Lenin. Next step for you is an accelerated course of critique of politics economy. You’ll find with surprise since the thirties was scientifically established (A. Bordiga, an italian like me) that every “communist/marxist” regime in the past can be described as a “state-capitalism”: when you have banks, money, market and salary you have capitalism; when state intervention overwhelms free-market you have state-capitalism; when you have a repressive regime you have fascism; but all of these are different aspects of capitalism. All nations you are talking of, were state-capitalistic and dictatorial, with money, banks, markets and salaries. Their governments used the “marxist” ideology to enroll the people, exactly like western nations used “democratic” ideologies to enroll their people. Communism never existed to date, it is a program for the future. You’ll never find Lenin saying he made communism:  when the Third International failed (because world workers didn’t unite under revolutionary flags) he knew he only could make the state-capitalism. Then Stalin came, and killed all the communist revolutionaries. Then WWII came. Now the world stage is set for a new wave of capitalistic violence (not so early as doomers says; you’ve to wait many years until Asian empires also fall in crisis). Prey workers of the don’t make the same error of the Third international, or dream to retire in a golden safe haven.

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    54. matt x says:

      orsobubu  is quite entertaining no?

      A few points Orsobubu is lacking:
      A.
      1. the school of Marx = Lenin & Stalin who killed 40,000,000 non-like minded, innocent, politically unreliable men, women, and children.  All Russian or Eastern European.   Essentially their own citizens.
      2. Communist China under Mao tse Tung killed 40,000,000 of their own citizens, men, women, and child.

      B.
      1. Republic form of governments don’t kill millions of their own citizens.
      2. Democratic governments don’t kill millions of their own people, despite pure democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting for what’s for dinner.
      3. National Socialism(nazi) is fascism, which lead to 6 million jews and millions of europeans being killed.
      4. Fascism is the merger of state and corporate powers. -Mussolini

      Enjoy Reality Orsobubu.

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    55. Too long boom says:

      Does not matter what political stripes they wear, history repeats this story because criminals never change.   From the beginning a band of despots stole the land and its resources  declaring themselves kings.   For their loyalty and servitude, the subjects were offered protection from other kings.  

      The language has change from subjects to workers, from kings to presidents, but the power game is the same.  The N American continent had a well establish society before the Spanish and English arrived.  It was to be subdued and subjected to the rule of royalty, the land a new resource to pillage.

      We are the Indians now.  You can go to the reservation like cattle ,or fight and die a free man.   You will be subdued and become a subject, or die living free.

      Nothing new here.  Enjoy the safety & security of your chains, or seek freedom and its perils. 

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    56. Sketch says:

      @ Karen:

      After WWII, this country hit its ‘second’ industrial revolution – while ramping up the military-industrial complex. Also, the US had the baby boom, which meant that there would be an increased tax base to draw from. Currently, we DON’T have any industry ramping up (unless a WWIII is started), we DON’T have a baby boom – any increase in the tax base will come from illegals being given amnesty – and assumes there will be jobs for them to have in order to PAY those taxes. The social fabric today is greatly different from that of 70 years ago.

      Ask yourself this – if/when WWIII starts, and the US re-implements the draft – do you think everyone will follow orders and report to their recruiting office? where fully 1/3 of the people are obese? if the US resorts to rationing cards (as they did in WWII), do you think people will ‘stand’ for that? not having their $5 lattes?

      While I understand where you are coming from – the need for objectivity is paramount, I think its fear that drives your derogatory replies – there is no need for name calling here – take that elsewhere. It is one thing to assume you know something someone else does not, it is quite another to assume other people are ignorant or stupid. but then, you already knew that, right?

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    57. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Good points matt x!  Commie dreamers overolook human nature thus their system is doomed to fail wtih tragic results.

      Orsobubu, your English sure has improved in the last two days!  That or you’re doin’ the old copy & paste.  Makes me wonder how well you understand your ideology, or your intergrity.  “I apologize for my poor English.”

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    58. rrr says:

      Karl Marx’s mother once said that she wished he would stop writing about capital and instead get some.

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    59. Tex says:

      I read an article today that predicted that we have about six months to a year before the US bond market crashes…and that will take the US dollar down to   For those of you who are worried about what he Federal government will do, don’t be.  They do not have enough WILLING troops to pacify or police half of New England, much less the entire country.  Once the fed government is scene as a failure in dealing with the situation, then the states, counties or towns will emerge with leadership that people will follow.  Make prepartions NOW when things are cheap and plentiful.  If you don’t own weapons, then you best remedy that problem soon. Stock piling non-perishable food and necessities for daily use can be easily accomplishe and quality canned goods are still cheap.  Try this website for quality dehydrated food and canned food and garden seeds:

      http://www.internet-grocer.net/

      As far as guns go, your basic (and BEST) miliary calibers are  7.62 x 51 (.308) and your Soviet 7.62 x 39.  For the pistol caliber, 9mm would be my choice.  Prepare for worst and hope for the best.  Best of luck to all of you as America’s future is filled with uncertainty. 

      Tex

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    60. NC)Guy says:

      After WW2, we were THE only manufacturer left in the world. The war destroyed the manufacturing of every other country in the world. For a decade after WW2, we owned the only industrial base around. That is why we recovered from the great depression.  We have very little mfg left and the rest of the world does…   This time around there is no recovery on the horizon unless they start WW3.

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    61. greaseman says:

      Comments….. There’s a reason so many people keep giving the same advice on preparing for what’s coming. it’s because of common sense. The items mentioned such as food, water, some precious metals, and some guns to defend with are the basic neccesities to get by. if you take these basic steps, you got a chance to make it through what is surely going to be a long drawn out hell on earth.
          I just don’t think people grasp the the scope of the problems that are coming. We are getting indications now of what is coming, and the spin meisters are having trouble keeping a lid on the bad news out there.  There’s only so many ways to spin a small blip of positive news in an ocean of lousy news.
           I have read several times, that by the end of the year that people will realize the government is lying their ass off at any type of recovery that we are supposed to be having.. The bare naked truth will be too much to cover up with happy talk. The mood of the country will quickly change to a morbid funk, as people realize they are truly screwed, and worry will quickly turn to being pissed off.  Then, people will totally figure out that the very ones who have been sworn to look out for us, have been lying all along.  Everyone has known this all along, but didn’t want to believe it. Now they will want payback. We will start to see payback coming in the next November elections. Many of these idiots in Congress have already figured out that the yes vote on the healthcare bill was their death notice.  We can only hope so.

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    62. Mariposa de Oro says:

      rrr,

      LOL!  I know how she felt.  There are few things more frustrating than an able bodied person who REFUSES to pull their weight.  Talk about your useless eaters!  Marx was worse than that.  How many millions have lost their lives thanks to his warped ideology?  How many millions more will suffer the same fate thanks to him?  Too bad his evil capitalist friend was so generous.   Marx was a parasite!

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    63. postxng@hotmail.com says:

      dear matt & mp (no copy&paste, only a re-read if I have time), obviously you didn’t read accurately what I said. All the wars and dead you’re counting, were leaded by capitalist countries, where money, salaries, markets and banks were well and alive (yes, also in USSR!). It doesn’t matter if capitalism was free-market or state oriented. The important is the surplus value rate extracted from the workers. In a capitalistic production system (free-market or state oriented) this rate always falls due to competition and automation, and crisis surge. You can have deflation or inflation, higher or lower interest rates, keynesian politics or vonmises-like politics; but the result is the same: sooner or later, bourgeoise – to survive against revolutionary people – must spread some ideologies to repress people, divide it and send into war fields, trying to avert the passage to proletarian expropriation and workers taking the power (communism).  The elite classes that decided the violences you said, belong to the democratic field (USA, England – the creators of first extermination camps, in XIX century Africa – France, with countless massacres each) or to the communist field (communist only as false ideology: as I said, if you have market etc. you  have capitalism, not communism). Russian bolsheviks and Hungary revolutionaries were all killed by Stalin. What you’re calling communists were capitalistic bureaucrats and dictators, same for nazi-fascists, all capitalistic puppets. I know you americans study history and politics economy really too little, you prefer science and technology.  With such poor theoretical foundations, I”m sad to fear you’ll be crushed by reactionary capitalistic elites if you will not organize in solid communist cells spread among your cities and countries. We also will be crushed, but we’ll try to organize workers this time: during WWII,  communists had been buried 10 years in advance by Stalin: you counted the millions of deaths as a result.

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    64. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Orosbubu, if that’s you,
      The people/workers voted for our current regime.  I don’t trust their judgement.   Meet the  new boss will be the same as the old boss.  How about we just stick with freedom from people like you?

      BTW, I didn’t see where you bothered to try out your brilliant ideology over @ standupforamerica.wordpress.  Really, you ought to go over there and give it try…..

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    65. orsobubu says:

      mariposa, we in europe are FAR ahead in our organization than you can imagine… we have a really solid-as-a-rock organization and spread among people. we never go to vote, we know it is useless in this times. we also never use internet (I’m writing only  because I’m surveilling a workstation doing work calculations…), our politics is among people on the road and homes and industries and offices all year long, because when times will get hard, they will stop the internet. The ideology is not mine… our organization dates back to the fifties, and the theoretical foundations (dialectical materialism) is widely accepted by famous scholars. Feyerabend destroyed Karl Popper, the famous US anti-communist. Geymonat, the top italian epistemologist, was a leninist. History is in the making, and we’ve seen nothing yet; if you accept the fact that classes crash each against others, you’re in the same track as me. You can dislike Marx, it’s not a problem, bourgeoise has so much powerful interests to spread false information about marxism using their intellectual puppets in media and universities, but if you just recognize the world divided up in classes, this is enough for me, the rest will come with time and experience. My interest is in a world without classes. I will never retreat from action, I like the fight.

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    66. Mariposa de Oro says:

      Humans have always had conflicts.  If it isn’t class, its skin color, relgion, style, sexual preference, etc.  There will always be conflict in human society and between individuals.  You are fighting human nature, which is something that hasn’t changed one bit in all of human history.  But I’ll tell you what, you and your European Advance Species of human go ahead and actually create that Marxist Utopia.  Have it function for several generations, and then maybe my descendents will come check it out.  Until then you are, in my mind, just another control freak who wants to control others whom they deem too stupid to decide how to live life for themselves.

      If you really enjoy discussion you ought to check out this website:

      http://standupforamerica.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/tuesday-night-open-mic-for-august-10-2010/

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    67. orsobubu says:

      some last points, mp, my time on this machine is ended and I cannot make propaganda on the internet: when, in the future, you’ll realize you need some form of territorial proletarian organization in your country you can write to me at postxng@hotmail.com, I’ll help you. We’re also in Brazil.

      “Humans have always had conflicts”: simply not true: human race dates back to 100,000 years, and for its hugely largest part, they lived in primitive communism: no money, markets, etc, and no wars, but also misery. social evolution brought the present human control over nature but also violence and earth devastation: next social forms possibly will have the best of both worlds.

      “There will always be conflict in human society”: I don’t agree with this nichilistic view, but if it is true, leninism teach us exactly this: how to fight and win.

      “human nature, hasn’t changed one bit in all of human history”: simply not true: marx was the first to establish scientifically what’s called social evolution: today humans are extremely different from millennia ago, when killing of servants and slaves
      was perfectly accepted. Then came economic progress and social revolutions with their benefits: it’s astounding to me you refuse further progress and revolution! it’s just so funny!!!

      “create that Marxist Utopia”: no:  mankind had many economic and social revolutions, it is not an utopia. utopistic is to believe economic and social revolutions can be magically halted thanks to your personal faiths. Indeed, it is absolutely possible mankind will experiment a counter-revolution, but this is an absolutely freaking perspective. if so, you cannot waste a single minute and became leninist at once!

      “who wants to control others”: exactly: we want to control and neutralize everyone who wants to exploit workers and organize violences, crisis  and wars. War against the war. also famous classic bourgeoise economists says that if you can prove capitalism subtracts richness from the worker classes, these have every right to became revolutionary.

      “they deem too stupid”: ehm, yes, a little. but history is just like that: avangarde elites always trace the way. it will be like that also for communism. I’m not glad for this. let’s hope post-communist social forms (i.e. anarchy) will bring further advances.

      good luck, my friend, I love south-america, the best place on earth.

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    68. Mariposa de Oro says:

      “I cannot make propaganda on the internet” ~ Not with me you can’t, LOL.

      “Then came economic progress and social revolutions with their benefits: it’s astounding to me you refuse further progress and revolution! it’s just so funny!!! ~ I think your acceptance of violence in dealing with anyone who won’t accept your yoke of slavery is disgusting, and not funny in the least.

      “good luck, my friend” ~ I am not your friend.  Stop agitating for an ideology that has MURDERED 100s of millions of innocent people, and will likely MURDER 100s of millions more. 

      And you think I’m stupid.  Impressive…..

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    69. mot says:

      Thomas Cole… in the 1830′s

      http://web.sbu.edu/theology/bychkov/cole.html

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    70. Benjamin says:

      Marc Faber, that’s the guy who predicted 200% inflation, when what we got (and are getting) is deflation, right?

      Anyone who think’s there’s going to be price inflation when there is this much debt in the economy has to be a Hapsburg Empire loving “Austrian economist.”  I’m sorry, but debt = built in demand for dollars. A lack of borrowers = no inflation. This man live in Thailand and has no idea what he’s talking about.

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    71. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UHNTkVqWpQ

      Smith and Wesson Tactical Pen.  You can take it anywhere.
      Get the military version.

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    72. Lynne says:

      Comments…..Advising people to move to rural areas is all fine and dandy, but speaking as a person who has lived in that kind of area their whole life, I can tell you this – the government/U.N. is already moving to force people like us out of the rural ares and into designated cities. They are coming after our animals (NAIS/ATP), our water, our septic tanks (state employee: “these are just mismanaged water treatment systems”), our mineral rights, our gardens/veg. seeds (S510 is about to be passed RIGHT NOW), our homes and more through such things as the Noxious Weed Act, the Wetlands Act, S510, animal ID, etc. How do you grow a garden if it and your seeds are illegal? How do you hide them when they fly helicopters over your place to search you without a search warrant (like we had them do to us just last month!)? How do you keep them from taking your rights to vote and your right to bear arms by simply setting you up with some marijuana plants in pots on your place (like they did to a Viet Nam veteran friend of our’s last year – he’s now a convicted felon and he’s never touched drugs in his life!) or by diagnosing you with PTSD (like they’d done with my brother-in-law who has never even seen combat)? Before you bug out to the countryside you better be doing everything you can to stop these insane globalist/One World Government legislators (Dems and Repubs both!) from passing these Agenda 21 bills into law. We are losing our sovereign nation before our very eyes.

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