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We’re Going to Experience Apocalyptic Pain, and It’s Going to Be Out of Our Control

Mac Slavo
December 27th, 2010
SHTFplan.com
Comments (114)
Read by 2,897 people
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The US Treasury Department tells us that our federal debt is currently sitting at $13.8 trillion. On its most basic level the federal deficit is the difference between current government spending (including interest payments) and total current revenue from all types of taxes.

In 2001, when President George Bush took office, our debt was around $6.5 trillion. Combined with President Obama’s spending packages and commitments, our public and gross debt over the last 10 years has more than doubled.

But that’s not the scary part. What’s scary is how much money we owe when we look at current and future liabilities over the course of the next three decades. Officially, this figure is estimated to be around $150 trillion. Unofficially, according to Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff, our future liabilities exceed some $200 trillion. Considering that the tax revenue of the United States is around $4 trillion per year, anyone who’s ever held a balance and made a credit card payment can understand the near impossibility of paying off such a debt.

Senator Tom Coburn is one of many who warns of dire consequences if we can’t get our finances under control:

I think you’ll see a 15 to 18 percent unemployment rate . I think you will see an 8 to 9 percent decline in GDP. I think you’ll see the middle class just destroyed if we don’t do this. And the people that it will harm the most will be the poorest of the poor, because we’ll print money to try to debase our currency and get out of it and what you will see is hyperinflation.

If we don’t take some pain now, we’re going to experience apocalyptic pain, and it’s going to be out of our control. The idea should be that we control it.

We share Senator Coburn’s sentiment. Unfortunately, we’re not as optimistic as he is that any of Congress’ placations will be sufficient enough to help us get out of this hole.

With $4 trillion in annual tax revenue, at today’s debt levels it would literally take 50 years just to pay off the debt that we’ve already committed to – that’s if we stopped all additional spending right now – today. The odds of that are zero – thus our debt liability will continue to grow, as will the interest payments required to service our debt.

The end result of our pulling forward 25 – 50 years of debt is not going to be pretty. As we’ve outlined before, we are on the brink of a catastrophic collapse in the credit of the United States of America. This means that at some point our national credit card is going to be maxed out.

When that will be is difficult to predict. According to Senator Coburn, we’re looking at about 3 – 4 years – which sounds like a viable time line. Really, it all depends on China, because they are the largest buyer of US debt.

But the Chinese are not going to stand by while their US currency reserves become worthless. They are already taking action to counter the effects of a soon-to-be suicided US dollar.

We recently learned that the Chinese have signed agreements with the Russians to drop the dollar as a settlement vehicle, essentially replacing the world’s reserve currency with the Yuan when dealing with each other. We’ve heard many people suggest that this is just a drop in the bucket because of the widespread use of the US dollar – and we agree. However, China is working with other trade partners to do the same thing. And eventually all of those drops in the bucket will fill it up.

Once the Chinese pull the plug there will be only one entity left to support the US dollar – The Federal Reserve. They’ll digitally print trillions of dollars for as long as they can, but sooner rather than later the US dollar will collapse.

And when it does, the end result can only be described as an economic apocalypse.

If the dollar gets to the point it is equivalent to Monopoly money it will be impossible for holders of the bills, as well as our government, to settle transactions with the currency. This means that commerce on a global scale, for all of those expecting to fulfill transactions in US dollars, will come to a standstill.

How will individuals and governments buy food, gas, and other essential goods when the very currency being used to settle the transaction is no longer a viable trade instrument?

Really, it can get that bad. We have no confidence that Congress, the President, the Federal Reserve or US Treasury can fix this problem.

Over the course of the next decade we will see a new US monetary system introduced – just like we saw in 1971, 1944, 1913 and 1785.

This time it will be very disorderly. We can expect trillions in wealth to be wiped out and the many complications that come along with such an event – violence, protests, riots, breakdown in the rule of law and potentially even large-scale war.

If you haven’t done so already, take action to protect your wealth and preserve your well being now, before it hits the fan. Follow the investment strategies of the Chinese and you might have a chance of coming out with something when the chickens come home to roost.

Take possession of hard assets whenever you can, including precious metals, long-term food stores, tools & equipment, and anything else that will retain value when the US dollar loses it.

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Author: Mac Slavo
Views: Read by 2,897 people
Date: December 27th, 2010
Website: www.SHTFplan.com

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114 Comments...

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  1. mushroom says:

    we need to immmediately reduce social security payments to elder americans 50% effective immediately then put these outragious payments on a sliding scale for five years when all these foolish payments would cease entirely. medicaid and medicare payments should be eliminated entirely. everybody, in a true democracy  including our wonderful military veterans should work and pay for all their healthcare. all public employee pensions and all public employee benefits should be immediately stopped.  intelligent citizens should be smart and capable enough to provide for their retirement years. if they are unable to provide for their own retirement then they shouldn’t retire!

    in the meantime we need to support our investment banks by making the repeal of the glass steagall act permanent. the TARP payments to our magnificent large banking centers should be increased to two payments every year consisting of a trillion dollars each until unemployment turns around. at this time all the employees of the major banking center should receive yearly bonuses of $500,000 each for the magnificent work they have done.

    god bless america and god bless our major banking institutions that have stabilized the american economy after the recent assault by gangster chinese drug lords and their ugly girlfriends from mexico.

    remember to save all the new crisp uncirculated ten dollar federal reserve notes that you can.  god bless the federal reserve bank that has supported the american economy for one hundred years of freedon and liberty.

  2. mushroom says:

    oh yes. and just one more thing.

    these outrageous criminal healthcare payments to the racketeering whining 911 responders should be stopped immediately.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Be assured the Chinese will pull the plug on the Dollar, but on their schedule, only after they meet their goals of reducing China’s exposure to US debt.  Just look at what the Chinese are buying around the world…billions in deals with Brazil, various countries in Africa, Russia, even opening talks with India….all of these deals and transactions have two things in common;  they are comodity based, and they are obviously part of a larger long term strategy to reduce their risk exposure to the Dollar. 

    Once that risk exposure has been diminished to their satisfaction, and after they have used as much of their Dollar reserves as possible to purchase hard commodities, the Dollar will is finished, and so will the USA.

  4. Dee says:

    Why save new $10 bills?

  5. Sketch says:

    War is coming. That’s the only way out.

  6. hornman says:

    Hey Mushroom….I think you’ve been in the dark too long & fed too much $hit.

  7. manos says:

    Mushroom,

    Reading you postings i conclude that you are being sarcastic and i congratulate you for your sense of humor.
    But in any case things are not good. You see what is happening to us in Greece. What i can assure you is that we are not lazy or stupid people. We worked like slaves, but we had fraud polititians who stole the public wealth.
    Now we must live in 1/3 of the lives we had before, but with the same taxes, the same mortgage payments, the same expenses etc. How can i tell to my 7 year old daughter that she must quit ballet and gymnastics? My wife is unemployed for the last 2 years, and my dad’s pention was cut by 500 euros per month.
    The government announced that the country is being saved by the EU and IMF assistance. But the country is composed by its citizens. So if the citizens are poor and hungry what the hell was saved then?
    And finally we took assistance which came out of YOUR wallets.
    And now the same help was given to the Irish, and potentially to the Portuguese.
    So we are looking to a global conspiracy to make people poor and bankers even wealthier than before.
    I only wish that the U.S. people wake up early enough to understand that it’s coming to your neighbourhood.
    I’m afraid to wake up one morning and find myself to work for some f@#…@# Chinese company 80 hours per week for 300 euros per month, to fix barbie dolls for rich Swiss kids.

    Be safe man

    Manos

  8. Gods Creation says:

    The war is already here.  It is against the people.

    Of course, there will be other resource wars, and likely a big one if the people don’t stop it first. 

    My bet…the people will not stop it.  Fortunately, I am not at war with anyone nor do I intend to ever be at war.  If the corporation wants to go to war, it will certainly do so no matter what I think or do.

    How to win?  Stop supporting the corporation that masquerades as a government.  Quit paying it to destroy not only your life, but the lives of millions all around the world.  If it goes to war with your money, you may as well be pulling the trigger or dropping the bombs.

  9. foldenrev says:

    In one sense I agree with mushroom, all entitlements need to be either cancelled altogether, or severely reduced.  My problem is that my wife and I together only receive $1,500 in social security per month.  That is our only income – and we can barely survive on that after we pay insurances, utilities, and buy food.  We are fortunate that our home is paid for, or we’d be in the streets.  That is a ticket to certain death here in the frozen hinterland.  There is no work available here for us that we are physicvally at our age) still capable of.  So what do we do when SS is cut 50%.  We have avoided being on any kind of government help (no food stamps, welfare, etc) thus far.  Will mushroom take us in?

  10. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. Mushscroom – my idea is better and I’m serious!

    Put me in charge of food stamps. I’d get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho’s, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

    Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I’d do is to get women
    Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we’ll test
    recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

    Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?  You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your “home” will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

    In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a “government” job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

    Before you write that I’ve violated someone’s rights, realize that all of
    the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before you say that this would be “demeaning” and ruin their “self esteem,” consider that it wasn’t that long ago that taking someone else’s money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

    If we are expected to pay for other people’s mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

  11. Tom Brown says:

    We don’t really owe anything. Foreign bankers set up the National Reserve, ( fed) and have been “lending” us our own money at interest ever since–hence, the (ha ha) trillions of dollars of funny money, fiat paper debt. Solution? Arrest the the bankers, execute some, make congress coin constitutional money, and presto change O !

  12. john says:

    Comments…..The last couple of days the news is reporting that the u.s. economy is getting stronger.Things are looking up.

  13. Gods Creation says:

    Tom Brown is absolutely right.  There is no “real” debt, hence nothing is owed by anyone outside of the corporation, and the debts within the corporation are its own.  Not mine.

    Goldenfox, given your comment I would not want to put you in charge of anything.  Knee jerk reactions designed to cause maximum pain for the victims of the corporation will not solve anything.

    The corporation has made promises.  It claims that tax money pays for these programs when it does not.  They are funded solely by the issue of funny money.  They are taken advantage of by those who have been taken advantage of by the banksters and corporate goons.

    They could very easily be funded in their entirety with a 100% reduction in murderous military spending.  Would you leave the military in tact while destroying the lives of people who were trained by the system itself to be dependent participants?  There was a reason they were trained that way, so it is not entirely their fault.

    All of the programs were designed and implemented specifically to keep those participants quiet, just as other things such as allowing some to make a lot of “money” for no work at all.

    The goal has been to make the poor dependent on the government, while allowing some to strike it rich.  Both of those serve to make the upper and lower classes accept what is given while the middle class is squeezed out of existence trying to pay for it all.

    The solution…quit paying for it.  Every penny you send to the IRS is deposited in the Federal Reserve and used to perpetuate the corrupted system.  As long as you fear the IRS and continue to pay it your hard earned “money”, you are voluntarily supporting the corporation and lose any right to complain about its behavior.

  14. clark says:

    Mushroom said, “we need to immmediately reduce social security payments to elder americans 50% effective immediately…”

    That does not seem likely under the current setup.
    What retired Boomer would vote for such a thing?
    A debasement of the currency would achieve the same effect though.
    Perhaps a crisp $10 bill would then equal a grimy old $2 bill?

    The future Mushroom portrayed seems to be exactly like the old Soviet Union, don’t you think so?

    manos, I don’t think the U.S. people are going to, “wake up” they refuse to think or see any possibility of a bad outcome. There is only, “Happy Talk” most everywhere.
    Your present does seem to be our future, like a bad dream, and once that happens, maybe then and only then will people, “wake up” imho.

  15. clark says:

    Tom Brown said, “…make congress coin constitutional money…”

    Are you one of those Greenbackers?
    That may not be a good idea.
    If you’re so inclined, here’s a long thread of interesting comments for why that is:

    http://thedailybell.com/1630/Anthony-Wile-The-Rise-of-Brownianism.html

  16. President Mooch Nubmer Skwer, TSA, Kenya says:

    8 years of Bush… 4.0 Trillion
    2 years of Obama… 3.3 Trillion

    At this pace, Obama will add more than 13 Trillion during his 8 years in office. 

    Yes, Obama will be reelected, there are 70 million plus votes from govt employees, union employees, blacks, and people on the MOOCH.  Now more than ever, people are enjoying the benefits of Obama.

  17. sittinguy says:

    Mushroom, man, you need your ass kicked.
    I have been told that what you say is satire. I DON’T THINK SO. I think you really believe what you write. And I think you just like pissing people off. In that case ,,, job well done. dipshit!

  18. tom says:

    Goldenfoxx…He is a guy who has it right.

  19. clark says:

    You might also find this interesting, if you’re into understanding this sort of thing, that is, creating money or using gold and silver:

    http://thedailybell.com/1635/Brownian-Schism.html

  20. clark says:

    As long as paying the huge tax that would be required to pay for the plan Goldenfoxx has is voluntary too, he can go do whatever and I wouldn’t care.

    Sounds pretty Marxists/prison camp-like to me though, lots of misery production and bully thug work. But if that’s what you like, you’re free to sign up, just don’t expect me to pay for it.

    As if the U.S. has any savings to draw from to pay for those programs in the first place anyway.

  21. GoneWithTheWind says:

    There is a broad range of things called “entitlements”.  Welfare is called an entitlement and SS is called an entitlement.  But they are as different as day and night.  Welfare recipients generally have contributed nothing and their entitlement is a freebie.  SS recipients are in reality collecting their own money back from a gopvernment sponsored retirement program.  SS recipients should NOT have their benefits cut as part of a general cost cutting or belt tightening measure.  There is a contract just as real as the contract you make with a bank or insurance company when you create a retirement or annuity with them.  A welfare recipient on the other hand has no such contract.  When welfare was created there were specific things put into the law to “protect” the freeloaders but there was no contract and the welfare freeloaders didn’t make monthly payments into a “retirement” system.  Our government, for inexplicable reasons, simply decided to spend trillions to buy the votes of poor people and in the process created a welfare system that is so attractive no one wants to get off of it so it grows larger every day.    SO IF “entitlements” must be cut to reduce spending then they need to cut all forms of welfare before they touch SS.

  22. tom says:

    Clark…we already are paying for these people, the plan set out by  Goldenfoxx would save us all a ton of money.

  23. tom says:

    Here is another thought, as long as you are on welfare you lose the right to vote. That way the people getting a free ride can not keep voting for those office holders who “pay them back” with welfare payments.

  24. laura m. says:

    Totally agree with Tom Brown plus we need to close the borders and quit supporting illegals with welfare and food stamps. Send them back.  Stop all immigration from anywhere, and all able body people work or don’t eat; no more extended unemployment, and pull out of these useless wars.  Meanwhile, I’m collecting mainly new twenty and fifty dollar bills..when the new one hundreds come out soon, I will collect some of them.   The older large bills will be  traded for ten’s and twenty’s.

  25. Tony says:

    Mac, you should correct the first paragraph:  $13.8 trillion is our debt, not our deficit.  Our deficit is around $1.5 trillion currently.  “The US Treasury Department tells us that our federal deficit is currently sitting at $13.8 trillion. On its most basic level the federal deficit is the difference between current government spending (including interest payments) and total current revenue from all types of taxes.”

  26. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..God’s creation said:  Goldenfox, given your comment I would not want to put you in charge of anything.  Knee jerk reactions designed to cause maximum pain for the victims of the corporation will not solve anything.
    —————————

    Please don’t tell me you are a bleeding heart liberal and that you enjoy seeing people buying $hit with yours and my money.  That you like welfare mamma’s squirting out babies just so you and I can pay for them. I don’t think god created the human race to live off of other people’s hard work.  As Margaret Thatcher once said:  “Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money.”

    And yes, they don’t have a right to vote either – I think all welfare recipients should be drug test once a month. I’d pay for that and if they test positive, they are down the road.  Break their dinner plate.  That would be my austerity measure. 🙂

  27. Clark, you have to get out of the city to find the people that are awake. There may be a few in populous areas but probably not many. They’ve adopted the no life life.

    “we’ll experience apocalyptic pain”

    The fact is, many of us have endured our pain ahead of time. Not wasting our resources on eating out, new cars, electronic junk, etc. Instead of spending to make life easier and to keep up with the Joneses, many of us built simple houses, drive 15 year old cars and bought guns, food and gold. I didn’t do it because I thought there would be a disaster or a collapse. I just did it because it just seemed prudent. I always thought all the money and all the fancy stuff was worthless and needless and, in fact, made people lazy and soft. Turns out, I was right. I have a job that takes minimal effort but gives me a lot of time off for family and life yet gives me a very good income. I use that income wisely and as a supplement to my many talents.

    Instead, people often have use their money so they don’t have to do anything. They buy off every problem they have. They never learn to change a tire, fix a leaky pipe, run simple wiring, tune up a car, shoot a firearm. EVERYTHING is purchased. They use the excess for “entertainment”, partying and self indulgence. None of which advances them educationally, socially, economically or politically. Those are the ones that will endure apocalyptic pain. To those of use who delight in adventure and work, I think it will be far less perilous. 

  28. Abbe says:

    Mushroom,
    You need a psychiatrist, the sooner the better. Or maybe an exorcist, you must be seriously possessed by an extremely evil spirit! Wake up, lunatic! Where are you from, Venezuela?

  29. Comments…..

    One question and I’m finished..are the local, county, and state employees STILL driving vehicles WE PAY FOR and provide MAINTENANCE/GAS for??
    I’m finished!

  30. ateabager says:

    Goldenfoxx : You saved me a lot of writing.

  31. Comments…..
    Gods Creation
    December 27th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    This is to God’s Creation from me for Goldenfoxx..

    On top of a mountain, a rattle snake was cold from the recent snow and having trouble getting to the bottom of the mountain when a turtle passed by.
    The snake asked the turtle to help him and the turtle responded saying why would I help you when you’re just going to bite and kill me…and the snake promised he would do no such thing if helped to get to the bottom of the mountain.

    The turtle agreed to help and the snake crawled on the back of the turtle and rode down.
    At the bottom of the mountain, the snake climbed off, and instantly bit the turtle.
    As the turtle lay dying, he screamed at the snake saying, but you promised…and the snake replied…you knew what I was when you picked me up.

    All the welfare queens know how the game is played..and all the political whores know how to keep score.
    They ALL know nothing is FREE!!!

  32. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…. ^To God’s Creation:  People on welfare don’t care as long as they get their cocoapuffs. Take that away and watch them scream and get violent.

    The task of weaning various people and groups from the national nipple will not be easy. The sound of whines, bawls, screams and invective will fill the air as the agony of withdrawal pangs finds voice. Linda Bowles

  33. tekroanin says:

    The task of weaning various people and groups from the national nipple… wtf!

    if you kill the support programs – CRIME WILL SKY ROCKET AND BLOOD WILL BE SPILLED! THINK PEOPLE!

    IT JUST GOING TO GET WORSE AS THEY PRINT MORE MONEY … THE DOLLAR IS DEAD, BUY YOUR SILVER AND GOLD NOW WHILE IT’S STILL BEING FALSELY SUPPRESSED… IT’S CHEAP RIGHT NOW COMPARED TO WHERE IT’S GONNA BE IN 14 MONTHS!

    IT’S A DONE DEAL FOLKS AMERICA IS BANKRUPT, THE DOLLAR IS DEAD, AMERICA IS A LIE! FIND SECURITY IN COMMODITIES AND PRECIOUS METALS NOW… DUMP YOUR DEBT’S… ALL OF THEM! GO DEBT FREE! DOWNSIZE! or learn to pick through the garbage heaps , cause that’s what your gonna be doing here real soon if you think the  dollar will survive the coming collapse… it’s monopoly money… get some real money now… and ya might wanna start befriending a homeless bum or two in your neighborhoods! ;0) Cause they’ll be living high on the hog in the years to come – while your freezin and starving!

    watch and see… it’s a HOBO’S LIFE FOR ME!

  34. Comments…..

    for NetRanger…

    II Thessalonians 3:10…for even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither would they eat.

    Even Paul understood nothing is free!!

  35. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..tekroani:  So what you are saying is, that the rest of us have to be held hostage by a bunch of lazy people who lives off the rest of us.  And if we don’t give them cocoapuffs, they’re going to riot.  Bring it on!  Isn’t that was bullets are for?

    What’s with this word “entitlement?” What makes them entitled to my money?  The word should be extortion.

    “The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title.”

  36. greaseman says:

    Comments…..You guys need to remember a key point in this discussion.   If everyone was taxed at 100% of his earnings for income tax purposes, it wouldn’t be enough to pay off the national debt.  All these methods to “save” the economy are pointless.   There are mere distractions to keep you from realizing you’re already screwed.
         If we had a revolution, and disbanned the FED, that would be a start, but that isn’t going to happen.  But, when the masses lose their entitlements, the party will really start.  What happens in Europe, is going to happen here.
        There are no “real” positive ecomomic datas, that points to a real recovery.  It’s all stimulus money being injected like a drug, into the veins of the economy.  it’s a temporary fix at best.
         It’s over guys, the credits are rolling, the house lights are coming up, the movie is over.  The real pain will start soon.  What do you plan to do about it??

  37. Pat Sarte says:

    Mushroom’s sarcasm was once funny, but has been repetitive and boring.   I wish he would post some sense for a change.

    When discussing on matters so grave, endless sarcastic comments are a pain in the a$$.

  38. Joerocker says:

    It’s Not My Debt !
    We told congress to stop spending and they gave us the middle finger.
    They can pay off their own debt.
    We tell congress no obama care, no bailouts, no s-510(food safety bill)
    and they are not hearing anything we tell them.
    All we get is the middle finger, time after time.
    We old congress the tell the TSA scumbags to stop the sexual assaults and remove the naked x-ray porno body scanners from all our airports and what do we get? right, the middle finger.
    looks like the Revolution has already begun.

  39. caryn says:

    Comments…..anybody at all remember the days of the once a month commodity lines? that was before food stamps and welfare/foodstamp cards….well, anyway-once a month ya lined up in a preselected county office and ya got bags of dried beans, rice, instant potatoes, tomato/orange juice, dried eggs, canned milk, canned ham product, canned whole chicken, cheese, butter, flour, sugar and so on. the reasoning for doing away with the commodity program was because alot of folks with sell their food items on the black market so they could buy booze and drugs, and cigarettes.  social security might be a ponzi scheme, but every person who has worked and received a paycheck is invested in it. ..take any of that away from those who have paid into that program and you will see a true “revolution”.   i still think that the best a person can do to survive this crap is to pay off your debts if you can, prepare your home and family as though it was the end of days, and if you have to spend money anywhere-pay cash or barter and buy only usa products. simplify your lives and do without as much as you can now. if you have a job, do all you can to keep it. if you do not have a job-create one for yourself-even if it is picking up dogdoo,  taking in sewing, yardwork, or whatever… start surviving now and maybe it won’t be such a struggle later on when things get really tough.

  40. idea says:

    Those hackers who are sympathizer of WikiLeak’s founder Julian Assange attacked the websites of Paypal, MC, and Visa.  Why not use that talent to attack mainstream media like ABC, CBS, CNN, etc….and expose the lies of these corporate media.  I think, it will wake up a lot of people by the millions.

  41. RebelYell says:

    Great post. Read this post too. http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

  42. NOYB says:

    Once you have a significant portion of the population with an entitlement mentality (welfare queens, et al, not SS recipients), how do you wean them off?  Cold turkey, as Goldenfoxx suggests?

    Let’s say that we were in a period of steady and stable economic times.  We’re working through a list of “reduce the size of .gov” and the staggering sums spent on the public dole are in the crosshairs.  If the cold turkey approach was used, you would have to either absorb all of the recipients into public works projects, or they would flood your stable marketplace with prospective employees and higher crime as the income vacuum is filled, one way or another.

    Wean them off by slowly reducing the benefits, and you spread out the influx of new prospective employees, while perhaps lessening the crime shock.  This looks better, but the problem of the entitlement mentality has not been addressed.  Those capable of making the intellectual leap into personal responsibility will get a clue and adjust.  I don’t think a very high percentage could make the leap, no matter how hard the whip or how enticing the carrot.

    You would be working against a worldview and cultural mentality that has been well ingrained.  Even if you affected reductions in benefits over a year or two, there is still nothing changing a worldview absent of personal responsibility and vacant of ideas on how to live in anything other than a stimulus-response mode.  You are also not just dealing with individuals.  The person’s local culture will imbue an inertia into your efforts, as the affected group attempts to maintain the status quo.  Just look at the Generally Dumb Public (GDP) for an example of inertia despite a sea change in our economic environment.

    We can look at the GDP’s reaction to the crisis for some enlightenment.  Putting conditions in place and expecting them to “wake up” doesn’t work.  If anything, regular people in the workplace with a fundamental work ethic are burying their heads deeper in the sand as the sirens get louder.  I doubt you would find those with an  entitlement mindset more receptive to changes in their environment.  Put them in camps, as Goldenfoxx suggests?  The brute force method may encourage some that they’re better off on their own, but without walking them through a change in their way of thinking, they might game that system too just enough to be sent on their way.  You would effectively need to “de-program” the welfare queens.   Then once you have your blank slate, you still have 20- 30- and 40-somethings with no education, no experience at providing added value to an employer, and no idea of their self-worth or potential as sentient human beings.  Just how far do you take the handholding to get them off of the dole?  Since we are in a period of few jobs and many job seekers, what are the secondary consequences of flooding the workplace with all of these new applicants?

    The problem was not created overnight, but we don’t have the luxury of time to spend a decade hand-wringing over the most politically correct solution.  While Goldenfoxx’s solution seems harsh, it might be a good platform to work from in developing something less vulnerable to the law of unintended consequences.  However painful and harsh, it’s better than Sherman’s March To The Sea.

  43. Roark says:

    The webpage is titled ‘Debt to the penny’ not ‘Deficit to the penny’.

    “On its most basic level the federal deficit is the difference between current government spending (including interest payments) and total current revenue from all types of taxes.” – this is correct.

    “The US Treasury Department tells us that our federal deficit is currently sitting at $13.8 trillion.” – this I suspect is not correct. The deficit is sitting between 1.0 to 1.5 trillion, not 13 trillion and change.

    An order of magnitude makes for a rather large difference when talking debt vs. deficit.

  44. Terance says:

    Before any cuts to Social Security…. I say let’s cut Congress
    plush retirement benefits package.

    How many of you are aware that a measly 5 years in
    Congress gets them a LIFETIME pension along with full MEDICAL benefits.

    This should be the very first thing cut!

  45. clark says:

    Goldenfoxx’s solution IS harsh, it seems that letting the free market solve things is a much better path to take.

    The original Pilgrims faced a similar dilemma on a smaller scale and came out ok, the U.S. could do the same today if only the free market was allowed to exist:

    “In 1620 Plymouth Plantation was founded with a system of communal property rights. Food and supplies were held in common and then distributed based on “equality” and “need” as determined by Plantation officials. People received the same rations whether or not they contributed to producing the food, and residents were forbidden from producing their own food. Governor William Bradford, in his 1647 history, Of Plymouth Plantation, wrote that this system “was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort.” The problem was that “young men, that were most able and fit for labour, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense.” Because of the poor incentives, little food was produced.
    Faced with potential starvation in the spring of 1623, the colony decided to implement a new economic system. Every family was assigned a private parcel of land. They could then keep all they grew for themselves, but now they alone were responsible for feeding themselves. While not a complete private property system, the move away from communal ownership had dramatic results.
    This change, Bradford wrote, “had very good success, for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.” Giving people economic incentives changed their behavior. Once the new system of property rights was in place, “the women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to set corn; which before would allege weakness and inability.”…”
    http://www.independent.org/blog/index.php?p=8599

  46. Lisa says:

    Human nature does not change. We are going down the crapper. Nothing is going to change in Washington, C.C.  Nothing! The only thing we can do is prepare. When it all falls apart, that is the time that we will be able to take over. They won’t be able to control us – hopefully.

  47. tekroanin says:

    Goldenfoxx : please hear me…

    the “system” is one big friggen ponzi scheme… it makes bernie maddoff look like a alter boy!

    that money you claim is coming out of your taxes and going to baby factrories and illegal aliens… is not real… your perception of reality is off: sorry to say… ;0( 

    The united socialistic states of amerika is bankrupt … current debt they say is 13.6 trillion … it’s actually 64 trillion g-fox!

    The i .r .s . is just another way for them to fleece you and control you…  it about control is all … with the present u s gov debts and social security and medicare and federal housing loan programs and lets not forget the INTEREST DUE RIGHT NOW AND GROWING … THE TOTAL DEBT OF THE UNITED STATES OF SOCIALISTIC AMERIKA IS 143 TRILION DOLLARS – T AS IS TRILLION!

    So goldennfox… please realize that lil’ thing they call Tax , that you pay into every year , doesn’t go any where : except into a big friggen hole to infinity………………………………………………………

    Your taxed simple to keep you in debt and INLINE… it’s called debt slavery! The IRS IS PRESENTLY HIRING 15,000 THOUSAND MORE IRS AUDITORS!  TOO CONTROL YOU! DEBT SLAVE!

    so… pls… research it… before you attack those who are victims of societies OLIGARCHY NWO BILDERBERG CORPORATE ELITE CONQUEST OF THE WORLD AND IT’S PEOPLE!

    pOOR PEOPLE AREN’T POOR BY CHOICE… their poor by circumstances … nothing more nothing less … and
    IO gaurantee G-FOX if you were to have a LIFE CHANGING MEDICAL ACCIDENT and become BANKRUPT BY INFLATED MEDICAL  BILLS OR WERE NO LONGER ABLE TO WORK CAUSE YOUR A CRIPPLE OR MAYBE EVEN you were RAPED AND SODOMIZED at work one day by your boss and suffer from PTSD!

    DON’T JUDGE… IS ALL I”M SAYING… THE SYSTEM IS BEING INTENTIONALLY DESTROYED FROM WITHIN… IT’S CALLED A SLOW SOFT KILL… AGENDA 21… IT’S INTENTIONAL!

    WERE ALL GOING TO BE VICTIMS HERE REAL SOON PEOPLE!

    SO… arm stock up on healthy foods and herbal meds and water filters.

    CAUSE YOUR ENEMY ISN’T THE OCTO-MOMS OUT THERE … IT’S YOUR OWN CONGRESS, PRESIDENT AND CORPORATE AMERICA GREED! IT’S THAT 1% THAT CONTROLS YOU AND 46 % OF AMERICA’S WEALTH! WHO WANT YOU DUMBED -DOWN , UNDER CONTROL OR DEAD! THEY PREFER 90% OF YOU DEAD!

    BE KIND TO THOSE WHO ARE NEED – CAUSE YOU ARE ONLY ONE ACCIDENT , ONE HEART ATTACK , ONE PAYCHECK FROM BEING THERE WITH THEM ON THE STREETS!

    DEBT SLAVES !  ONE AND ALL!

  48. TEKROANIN says:

    “”GRAMMER CORRECTED-MY APOLOGIES FOR BEING LAZY!””         

    Goldenfoxx : please hear me…
    The “system” is one big friggen ponzi scheme… it makes bernie maddoff look like a alter boy!
    That money you claim is coming out of your taxes and going to baby factrories and illegal aliens… is not real… your perception of reality is off: sorry to say… ;0(
    The united socialistic states of amerika is bankrupt … current debt they say is 13.6 trillion … it’s actually 64 trillion g-fox!
    The i .r .s . is just another way for them to fleece you and control you…  it about control is all … with the present u s gov debts and social security and medicare and federal housing loan programs and lets not forget the INTEREST DUE RIGHT NOW AND GROWING … THE TOTAL DEBT OF THE UNITED STATES OF SOCIALISTIC AMERIKA IS 143 TRILION DOLLARS – T AS IS TRILLION!
    So goldennfox… please realize that lil’ thing they call Tax , that you pay into every year , doesn’t go any where : except into a big friggen hole to infinity………………………………………………………
    Your taxed simply to keep you in debt and INLINE… it’s called debt slavery! The IRS IS PRESENTLY HIRING 15,000 THOUSAND MORE IRS AUDITORS!  TOO CONTROL YOU! DEBT SLAVE!
    so… pls… research it… before you attack those who are victims of societies OLIGARCHY NWO BILDERBERG CORPORATE ELITE CONQUEST OF THE WORLD AND IT’S PEOPLE!
    POOR PEOPLE AREN’T POOR BY CHOICE… their poor by circumstances … nothing more nothing less … and
    I guarantee G-FOX if you were to have a LIFE CHANGING MEDICAL ACCIDENT and become BANKRUPT BY INFLATED MEDICAL  BILLS OR WERE NO LONGER ABLE TO WORK CAUSE YOUR A CRIPPLE OR MAYBE EVEN you were RAPED AND SODOMIZED at work one day by your boss and suffer from PTSD!
    Walk in their shoes before you judge them!
    DON’T JUDGE… IS ALL I”M SAYING… THE SYSTEM IS BEING INTENTIONALLY DESTROYED FROM WITHIN… IT’S CALLED A SLOW SOFT KILL… AGENDA 21… IT’S INTENTIONAL!
    “TAKE FROM THEM IN INCHES! … WHAT YOU CAN IN YARDS!”
    – chinese proverb.
    WE’RE ALL GOING TO BE VICTIMS HERE REAL SOON PEOPLE!
    SO… arm up stock up on weapons, healthy foods and herbal meds and water filters.
    YOUR ENEMY ISN’T THE OCTO-MOMS OUT THERE … IT’S YOUR OWN CONGRESS, PRESIDENT AND CORPORATE AMERICA GREED! IT’S THAT 1% THAT CONTROLS “YOU” AND 46 % OF AMERICA’S WEALTH! WHO WANT YOU DUMBED -DOWN , UNDER CONTROL OR DEAD! THEY PREFER 90% OF YOU DEAD!
    BE KIND TO THOSE WHO ARE NEEDY – CAUSE YOU ARE ONLY ONE ACCIDENT , ONE HEART ATTACK , ONE PAYCHECK FROM BEING THERE WITH THEM ON THE STREETS!
    FOOD PRICES ARE GOING TO SKY ROCKET OVER THE NEXT 14 MONTHS AND COMMODITIES TOO… anyone who doesn’t become proactive in securing what they need now to survive the next 5 years of change is just asking to be put in a FEMA camp – come Zero 0 hour – when the scumbags in charge crash the dollar and make you all turn in your dollars for 35% of their worth for a new world currency called the – “”Bancor!””
    They are putting the controlled police state into operation right now as you read this … just look around you with open eye’s! They are preparing for the collapse and if your not wearing a Law Badge, U N Blue or U S Army camo-green… your a liability and a target!
    Just being honest… get your food now while it’s cheap , guns and ammo too – only those willing to fight for their lives will come out of the Vortex we’re all being led into by our bank accounts – DEBT SLAVES !  ONE AND ALL!

  49. Plane Guy says:

    Ahh, but Lisa, “They” WILL be able to control us…At some point you will need thier “mark” to buy anything, have a job, put gas in your car, pay your property taxes, enroll your kids in school, go to college, make an emergency room visit, have a bank account, access your 401K $, etc, etc…

    That is the ENDGAME of the entire plan that is unfolding before our eyes- total societal and economic control of every living human being on the planet. No matter how well you think you’re prepped for what’s coming, at some point you will need to deal with “them”…

    All of those using the government’s “entitlements” (including SS), or employed by any local/ state/ federal agency will be first in line for the “mark”…

    The scenario above is utimately what you have to “prepare” for!

  50. boludoargentino2010 says:

    I like Goldenfoxx’s idea.  Goldenfoxx for President.

  51. Tina says:

    Plane-Guy….I cound not have said it plainer myself. You are spot-on.

  52. Anonymous says:

    But, but B Masters will take care of Mushrooms, she loves them.
    She will drop cooper, silver, gold, grain, cotton, gas, bread prices for you. An Mushy / Masters study shows that cat food
    is healthier for your eleders.
    WAKE UP, J Napolitano, S Palin, H Clinton, B Obama crash the
    US into the ground.

    Be loved.

  53. Comments…..
    First off mushroom, incidentally…good call name.
    Should SS be revamped, absolutely, number one move? Take these monies that are targeted for SS, remove them from the General fund. These dollars should never be used for anything else. Secondly, if this idiot for Prez., wants to increase the Fed. rolls, hire investigators to halt fraud in Medicare, Medicade and SS. Remove the deadbeats from payments because ,” I can’t work, my ass hurts”. Prosecute any Dr. that submits a request for benefits that prove to be fraudulent as well as the recipiant.

    Enforce illegal immigrants laws, prosecute wall street thugs, liars,  crooks and inside traders. 

    It drives me nuts when I hear the illegals want to work and the Americans want to set on their cabooses. I tired of hearing that people want to be on unemployment. I don’t believe that.

    I m tired of late, hearing that the economy is on the upswing from the MSM, give me a break, if this were so, why was unemployment bebefits extended…again?

    Just this morning, the MSM was almost peeing their pants with the “good news”, the sheeple shoppers are buying more this Christmas….

    Come on folks, are you that ignorant? In our area, from Penny’s, Belk, Kohl’s, to name only a few, have reduced prices 70%-80%. If these companies are touting the sales, then apparently the products they sell are still overly inflated.

    I without a doubt, believe we are in a world of crap and if we continue to travel this present road we are on, as we are, it doesn’t matter, democrats or repblicans, we are destined for many hard years. 

  54. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..TEKROANIN:

    Sheesh!  WTF are you yelling for? I’m against entitlements period.  I don’t care where the money comes from – people who are lazy and squirt out babies just for us to take care of is wrong. All the rioting that’s  going on in Europe will bleed over here.  People screaming for their cocoapuffs.  Next time you address me, let go of the caps lock and I’ll read what you have to say.

    There’s a difference between “needy”and being “greedy”.  Most cocoapuffers are greedy. They sell their food stamp debit card to buy their drugs.  The first of the month will be here in a few days, and the needy greedy will be in the grocery store parking lot ready to sell their welfare cocoapuff card.  The ones who make it into the store will fill their basket with all kinds of $hit to eat, and some good stuff too that the average working man can’t afford.  Then they’ll go home to their subsidized housing, turn on their subsidized lights and heat.  They’ll make it home in time to kick back and watch Oprah on their big screen TV while the working man is working his a$$ off to bring home the bacon.  What’s wrong with this picture?

  55. Chuck says:

    Comments…..First! We must end the federal Reserve, ( not audit, not control, END!) Then we go back to real money as defined in our constitution, ie: gold & silver. Then repudiate all debt owed to any member of the international  bankster cartel, ( they created it out of nothing, it cost them nothing to do it). Why should our whole country make ouselves & our children slaves to pay it back? Next STOP all wars! Their only real purpose is to make money for those that profit from them, then we could institute the programs reccomended by Golden foxx, & we would be well on our way out of the mess the Federal Reservebanksters/ government/military industrial complex has gotten us into.

  56. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. What Chuck said!  Yes! They should put us all in charge!  We’ll let Mushcroom be in charge of being the prison guard for Barney Frank.  LOL!

  57. Chuck says:

    Comments…..Obviously my previous comments were all hypothetical, & the most unlikely kind of dreaming. However, that being said, Ron Paul has gotten himself into a position where he may actually be able to make some baby steps in the right direction, & we should all do what we can to support his efforts. Also has anyone but  myself been watching Fox business news new show, Freedom Watch, with Judge Andrew Naplitano, he appears to be taking up the fight against the Federal Reserve with Ron Paul. This is must watch TV! Perhaps he had better watch himself, or he & Ron Paul will be taken out by the same people who took out JFK, & many of us now know who that was.

  58. therooster says:

    Americans would be wise not to look up to government for their answers.  Few people seem to realize that it’s the whole supply driven , top-down paradigm that is closing. We’ve been supply driven since “the apple was shoved in our faces”. 

    Gold and silver are being monetized each and every day, but unlike the hard money systems of old, they are being monetized in market driven fashion from the bottom up.

    Now that precious metal weight can be digitized and legal title (as currency) can be transferred from account to account via the Internet, new wine has found its way into a new wineskin.

    I can now buy a stick of Juicy Fruit gum from a merchant in Timbuktu with exact gold or silver payment in the twinkling of an eye. I can do so regardless of what currency is used for the gum’s pricing and after the transaction is complete, there is no lingering debt.  What’s all the fuss ?  Look to yourself !  The problems disolve.

    We do not have a monetary problem as per design. We simply have a marketing challenge.  Fiat was part of the solution because of the need for a real-time environment and a floating relationship between gold (the weight) and dollars (the real-time measure).  Without the advent of a free floating real-time measure (the dollar), real-time gold weighted payment would not have evolved. The dollar’s role as a currency was just a step in its evolution toward its ultimate role as a real-time measure for gold and silver.  Some evils are necessary, unfortunately. Something had to be able to bridge the paradigm of fiat pricing (for economic widgets) and weighted bullion payment. That something is the real-time price of bullion as expressed in dollars.

    The great wedding is here.

  59. Comments…..

    I have to completely agree with GoldenFox. One of the biggest leeches on our economy and one of the larger reasons city, state and federal financial books aren’t balancing are “entitlement” programs. Now whether this is by design, or by spineless bureaucrats afraid to go up against this union or that sub-sect of voters is certainly up for debate, however the fact of the matter is that governments at all levels have overpromised, and one of two things will happen – either the system collapses, or we have to go through a painful restructuring period.

    I am self-employed. I don’t get paid vacations, I don’t get a “pension” – I work I get paid, I don’t – well I don’t. My retirement is 100% funded by me. This thought is foreign to much of working america, and especially unionized america and those working in the public sector. Welfare is a joke. There is no reason to get off it – someone somewhere will pick up the tab – that’s the culture that has been created. Undocumented workers’ children get to go to school and are now complaining they can’t go to college. Who’s paying for all this? Well that someone is you and I (kind of), and now that our government is finally realizing we’re in over our heads, the little that I get to keep each month and the little I’ve been able to put away for my self – funded retirement is being devalued so we can make sure those sucking off the federal teat aren’t inconvenienced. I could give two $#!ts of it causes rioting or what not – when the system completely collapses who do you think are going to be the first to start killing and looting? The entitled.

  60. Comments…..
    …..You guys need to remember a key point in this discussion.   If everyone was taxed at 100% of his earnings for income tax purposes, it wouldn’t be enough to pay off the national debt.  All these methods to “save” the economy are pointless.   There are mere distractions to keep you from realizing you’re already screwed.

    Greaseman..not everyone is fooled..these posters here are getting ready and have stored supplies and food…like me, good for two years and still storing food.

  61. HEY YOU!!!! says:

    Load up on the ammo and ram the old truck full of burning trash into the neighbors house and steal their stuff!  That’s the American way to solve problems!  Just kill em and take their stuff!  You could knock the valves off a couple of propane bottles and heave em in the window.  One boat flare sends the whole place sky high!  WEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

  62. Pete says:

    Comments…..Thank GOD little Hitler Goldenfox is not in charge of anything except wiping his fat ass after defecating.

  63. Jack C says:

    Mac, all due respect, but I think you mean the Federal Debt is 13.8, not deficit. The Federal Deficit for 2010 is around 1.3 trillion. That is still 1.3 trillion way too much!

  64. Comments…..

    Does noone see it as I??

    Years ago, when as a couple we accepted the first credit card we used, I looked into my husband’s eyes and asked..won’t this have to stop somewhere, some time???? We’re really spending air!!!
    And here we are…it was a check-kiting, ponze scheme…the greedy became more greedy…

    The responsible are forced to pay for the govt’s irresponsible  spending habits..this won’t set well with we that are responsible.

  65. Lisa says:

    The innocent always pay for the guilty in financial matters where there are banksters and corruptibles in Congress and the White House.

  66. Thanks for the great comments all.

    Jack C. et. al. – my mistake there. I updated that “deficit” to read “debt.”

    My bad… The Christmas eggnog is still clouding my head a little.

  67. JimboS says:

    Hello, Since the sport seems to be retired government workers. Tell you what, return all my pension and social security contributions from day 1 plus normal compounded interest. And we can call it square.  Of course I will immediately convert it to a currency with longevity (ain’t US) and drive over the border to avoid an airport sexual assault and then live happily ever after. Good luck america

  68. GMAFB says:

    @Goldenfoxx…Nothing like a little plagiarism, eh foxx?  What you wrote was written as an OP/ED in the Waco Tribune Herald in Waco, TX on Nov 18, 2010.  Nice of you to claim it as your own ‘idea’…but  I’d be ashamed of myself if I were you…too much mushroom exposure, I expect.

    GMAFB — still no apologies extended.

  69. rachel says:

    the problem isn’t with SS. If yoy pay into the system then it’s your money. problem is all theose who are abusing the system. Welfare babies who grow up and live on welfare. SS should go back to being what it was intended to be…a suplemtal program that was volunteer to enter.

    medicare/medicaid is for the servery handicapped and mentally retarded and should remin so. Get the criminal off the programs.

    I don’t mind helping the truely disadvantage…i hate floating freeloaders though life though.

  70. Terry says:

    I nominate Goldenfoxx for President and Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey for Vice-president.

  71. GMAFB says:

    @Terry…same level of integrity, I suppose…

  72. I agree with Sanator Coburn on the economy. I believe he is right on target. What I find disturbing is that he and so many other senators think their job discription is to make laws and represent the general population. Let’s remember that senators are supposed to represent their state and protect states rights. It’s part of the checks and balances our forefathers put in place.

  73. Lisa says:

    Hey guys! Take a look at Glenn Beck today, Tuesday’s show, cause he talks about some of the things thatyou talk about. I wonder if he reads this blog, too. I know that he reads several of them. I know cause of what he talks about. But, it is more chilling than what any of you have said about what is going to happen. At least we have some time, how much, I don’t know, but we have time to prepare and get moved it we need to. I won’t be in Los Angeles anymore, or here in Phoenix, either! I’ll move to where people do band together and KNOW each other. Where people don’t mind being close to their neighbors and heping out.

  74. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments….. GMAFB
    December 28th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
    @Goldenfoxx…Nothing like a little plagiarism, eh foxx?  What you wrote was written as an OP/ED in the Waco Tribune Herald in Waco, TX on Nov 18, 2010.  Nice of you to claim it as your own ‘idea’…but  I’d be ashamed of myself if I were you…too much mushroom exposure, I expect.
    GMAFB — still no apologies extended.
    ———————–
     
    Never said I did write it.  Go look and see what I said I would do.  I have no idea who wrote it – my sister sent that to me with no notice as to who wrote it.  I agree with everything that is said in it.  My name isn’t on it – no plagarisim at all–I repeated it.

  75. Lisa says:

    Go here to watch the first part of 12/28’s broadcast. It is really a must watch. Please, let this post go through. Thanks!



  76. GMAFB says:

    Uh, let’s see…” Mushscroom – my idea is better and I’m serious!”

    It sure looks like you claimed it as yours…It would have been complete if you had also cut and pasted the author’s name — Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville, TX along with the rest of the email you were sent.

  77. @mushroom

    Are you crazy. “we need to immmediately reduce social security payments to elder americans 50% effective immediately”. This is silly talk. That’s the kind of thinking that got us in this mess.

    You sound like a republican with his boots on too tight. This is not the time to lose it.

    Join the Revolution
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )
     
    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM

     

  78. This article suggests you protect your wealth. That is impossible. Gold is not a protection. These people don’t understand what we are really up against.
     
     

  79. benjamin says:

    get ready for “them” to restrict electricity usage.
    get ready for “them” to put you in labor groups.
    get ready for “them” to inject you with hazardous chemicals
    get ready for “them”

  80. j stuart says:

    Mushroom made me laugh.  We are headed for doom but what the hell, a little pain is good now and then.  Plus, maybe we can finally use this ammo we’ve been putting  aside.

  81. tekroanin says:

    g-fox my apologies to you ma’am ;0p… no disrespect intended… I know what I say cause I’ve lived it… I only come out of my cave on bath-days which is Saturday… my social etiquet  skills are rusty… I wasn’t yelling intentionally to you… apologies ma’am!   

    It’s cheaper to take care of them… than not… America already has the highest prison population per capita in the world…  prisoners are rioting and being given early releases,  states, cities and towns are layin off cops left and right… cutting back on police services by 50%… or completely disolving the whole police force , telling town civilians people to arm up and there’s more of them “poor folks” than you and yours!

    If you cut their payments there will be a explosion in property crimes, murder and strong arm robberies… not to mention all the children who will suffer needlessly and grow up true street preditors!

    So from a social science stand point , psychological impact on society , economically and by human suffering stand point , it’s better to just give em’  some food vouchers and subsidize their heat and rent… which is all falsely inflated to begin with… and again you gotta realize that which you call “”money”” is no better than monopoly money and actually worthless… and the more they print to pay for their illegal government foreign war policies the more ridiculously worthless  it becomes!

    Bottom line folks; you don’t take care of the poor!!! They’ll come and take care of “YOU!”

    It’s just the way it is… remember Frances Revolution… serf uprising and the chinese social revolution… more poor people fighting for a scrap of bread and shelter!

    Either you sudsidize them or they come and take it from you…

    Just sayin my piece from the streets point of view!

  82. tekroanin says:

    and of course the AMERICAN REVOLUTION!!! Which as I recall was started by a bunch of 3 %  ‘poor boys’ WITH NOTHING LEFT TO LOOSE! Tired an FIGHTIN’ MAD at an OVERLY SUFFACATING , OPPRESSIVE  (“bank of england”) ROTHSCHILD FAMILY supported and controlled IN-BRED, incestuos european royal english governement  , over-TAXATION and BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS and HUMAN FREEDOMS violations!

    It was a TEA TAX I believe that was the final straw that time… wonder what it wil be this time?

    We’ll soon find out… arm up stock up… cause it’s gonna hit the fan here real soon!  

  83. Anonymous says:

    Comments…..

    GMAFB
    December 28th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
    Uh, let’s see…” Mushscroom – my idea is better and I’m serious!”
    It sure looks like you claimed it as yours…It would have been complete if you had also cut and pasted the author’s name — Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville, TX along with the rest of the email you were sent.–  That reference was never included in my sisters email.  If you go back and look at any thing I have quoted, I have always included the authors name if it has been stated.

    Alfred W. Evans?  Well give that man a cigar! Now we know whom we can say that he’s on the same wave length as me and others.  But me thinks you are against people taking care of themselves.  Well GMAFB, work harder someone on welfare is depending on you! (source unknown). 🙂

  84. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..

    GMAFB
    Uh, let’s see…” Mushscroom – my idea is better and I’m serious!”
    It sure looks like you claimed it as yours…It would have been complete if you had also cut and pasted the author’s name — Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville, TX along with the rest of the email you were sent.–  That reference was never included in my sisters email.  If you go back and look at any thing I have quoted, I have always included the authors name if it has been stated.

    Alfred W. Evans?  Well give that man a cigar! Now we know whom we can say that he’s on the same wave length as me and others.  But me thinks you are against people taking care of themselves.  Well GMAFB, work harder someone on welfare is depending on you! (source unknown). 🙂

  85. Mike L says:

    @laura m.:  “Stop all immigration from anywhere”, nice, very American of you.  You’re in so everyone else can’t join, right?  You remember what this country was founded on, correct?

    Anyone wanting to come legally is always welcome in America.  We have limits on how many visa’s are given out, this is controling how many legal people get into the USA. 

  86. Mike L says:

    @TEKROANIN – Really, a good portion of the poor are there because of the government?  My parents didn’t even realize they were living the poverity line until the government told them so.  Dad said he was eatting more then when he was at home a few years earlier with 4 other siblings.

    What did he do?  How did he pay off his house after 8 years (with a mortgage)?  And since bought everything with cash?  He developed a niche business few others could do and was successful, heck he’s never advertised a day in his life and turns work away on a regular basis.

    Anyone with a bit of drive can pull themselves up and out if they so choose to try.  Yes, you may get beat down a few times (even a lot) but those that want it, will eventually get it.

    Quit making excuses for people.  They, for the most part (always exceptions) are where they are because of themselves.  They failed to pay attention, instead watching Football/Baseball.  Or they didn’t want to hear it, “The factory may be closing, John, what will we do?”, “It’ll never close man.”

    You have to realize the Government rarely does the right thing at the right time.  It’s too big to be effective, it turns slower then the Titanic and it’s being driven by blind people.  If you don’t realize this, you’re not paying attention and get what you deserve.

    People make choices.  Therefore it’s their problems.  A while ago it stopped being put on them though.  Personal responsibilty is gone, thank you politically correct idiots, aka people with too much time on their hands.

  87. tekroanin says:

    Mike L – ;0)

    yeah I do hear you and g-fox… but the numbers… don’t lie…

    85% of june 2010 college graduates moved home to mommies house… 56% of them are in debt up to the tune of $85,000 d d d ollars… working part time jobs at 8 bucks an hour , cause there is no jobs … they are all over seas i india and china … or in the military which for the first time in 20 years has a surplus of recuits … the navy is forcing folks to leave … I could go on but I wont … bottom line folks : it costs the us gov federal prison system now $40,000 dollars a year to properly house and care for the inmates in prison… same for local state private prisons!

    Whats cheaper for society… a few bucks for groceries, heat, electric and rent assistance for them who the system have failed… or $40,000 per year to house them who turn criminal to survive in your harsh New World Order America!

    I’ll choose giving them the assistance at $6,000. a year over the $40,000.

    Our fathers lived in a time of plenty… compared to the times coming are way here over the next five years… just check out ZERO HEDGE . COM

    you’ll catch on… thanks for the response. 

  88. tekroanin says:

    let’s not forget… that the federal reserve is just printing money – like electronic monopoly money and laundering it through off shore banks electronically to foreign central banks and then using that new electronic monopoly money to pay for everything… it’s one big con job! which is why both the gold and silver markets are climbing to new highs… no matter how hard they try to fake it and illegally supress them… the commodities markets are naturally correcting the value of the dollar being destroyed by the federal reserve bank and bank of england – which are both private corporations by the way!

    it’s just monopoly money people! let the poor be poor with some dignity…

  89. About October 2013 we will see Financial Breakdown… chaos and civil unrest.   Russia repeat from 1990’s except for the mass waves of criminals killing for food.   Today gun sales are going gangbusters.  Default of U.S. Treasurys and your dollar redeemable to the new Liberty Dollar worth very little.   Best to get out of the country before then and be living somewhere else.  You were warned and now you have a date.  You snooze you loose.

  90. GMAFB says:

    @Goldenfoxx…two seconds with google would have easily identified the source of your idea. 

    Here’s one for you:

    Hamlet:

    Madam, how like you this play?
    Queen:
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230

    Just keep on cuttin’ and pastin’, and have another mushroom…

    GMAFB — still no apologies extended

  91. Comments…..

    wow – interesting conversation. I personally think it’s great how passionate people are – there is the realization that things are very wrong and that the bus (that we’re all passengers on) is still pointed in the wrong direction. Our society is mostly made up of self-serving (not self-reliant) fools who take no responsibility for themselves or anything that happens to them:

    Too much credit card debt? File for bankruptcy – what’s seven years – take my kids’ books, just don’t touch the plasma.

    Spill hot coffee in my lap? Must be McDonald’s fault – let’s sue ’em.

    I can walk, I can drive, I can smoke, I can drink…work? No I can’t work, I’m disabled – I get a check every month saying I am.

    Eat 8000 calories a day and never excercise? Well I can’t afford the sixteen perscriptions that keep my heart from completely seizing up – good thing the govnt can – oh and pass the donuts, please.
    This is the mentality of a good portion of our society, and the mentality of a good portion of the voters who congressmen and women pander to. This, coupled with wreckless, needless spending for decades has caught up with us. Change needs to come quick and it will be ugly for many. Not changing will be catastrophic for all.

  92. Anonymous says:

    What kind of donuts?

  93. mushroom says:

    @Anonymous…mushroom, of course!

  94. James Woroble Jr says:

    It is essential in analysis of any problem to possess the intellectual and unemotional capacity to conclude that things are beyond correction or redemption, and act solely defensively upon such a premise. Such is the case with the present economic and currency situation of America and thus that of the entire western hemisphere.

    At this juncture engaging in opinionated policy and political solutions is futile and analogous to rearranging the deck chairs on the HMS Titanic. The only realistic ‘solution’ is one of personal defensiveness, to secure and accumulate all that is required to survive throughout this period. As far as political and policy solutions, this will only be meaningful after the economic cataclysm at the point of reconstruction, whereby the primary solution is to not permit the reestablishment of the policies and politicians that caused the prior disaster. For be assured, they and their thieving agenda will be waiting in the wings for another go at it.

    —-

  95. therooster says:

    …that means include gold & silver ….. it is money and key to ongoing liquidity to support trade even at a local level

  96. Goldenfoxx says:

    Comments…..GMAFB
    December 29th, 2010 at 9:38 am
    @Goldenfoxx…two seconds with google would have easily identified the source of your idea.
    Here’s one for you:
    Hamlet:
    Madam, how like you this play?
    Queen:
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
    Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222-230
    Just keep on cuttin’ and pastin’, and have another mushroom…
    GMAFB — still no apologies extended
    —————————-
     
    Who is the one doing all the protesting? Kettle Black  GMAFB.  LOL!

  97. Robin Hood says:

    Comments…..Just confiscating all the wealth of the top 1% of the population will solve all the the problems. Most of them inherited and despite their pretensions are are as useless as tits on a chicken.

  98. tekroanin says:

    James Woroble Jr – “”great comment!””

    one thing to be aware of though… the united states air force with united nations air support … has orders to “”CARPET BOMB!”” any community that take a stand against the new world order marching plan!

    OPERATION MARKET GARDEN  / REX 84 OPERATIONS PLANS!

    written by usmc col. oliver north – ollie himself in the 90’s!

    So ummm just keep in mind when the dust settles and you with your nice new radioactive tan ; poke your heads out to see what all the noise was about… just remember you’ll be dealing with foreign united nations “smurf blue helmet heads” and the nwo american troops who have sworn loyalties to the NWO and united nation nato command!

    not to forget … “BLACK WATER/ XE” s private army working under government contracts here in the united states as well as  “Isaeli Security pricks!” working for “DHS” as well!

    So as far as making a change after the “zero 0 hour” events!

    You’d better think about heading to the Rockies! It’s a natural fortress and will be the place of the “LAST STAND” against the NWO and it’s minions! If your in a city, your finished it’s a prison… turn death trap… to become a morgue… with folks turning cannibal! ;0p

    “Think “COORS” and “Head for the Rockies!” for safety… it will be under united nations control zone… but we as locals will have the upper hand…

    ARM UP STOCK UP…

    operation market garden / rex 84 – google it!

    In the end there will just be you… to help you!

    An buy a decent shovel for your ‘bugout ” bag… it will save your life in more ways than one!  

  99. tekroanin says:

    correction : my mistake…

    Operation Garden Plot
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    This article may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. More details may be available on the talk page. (January 2010)

    Operation Garden Plot is a general U.S. Army and National Guard plan to respond to major domestic civil disturbances within the United States.[citation needed] The plan was developed in response to the civil disorders of the 1960s and is now under the control of the U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM). It provides Federal military and law enforcement assistance to local governments during times of major civil disturbances.
    Garden Plot was last activated (as Noble Eagle)[citation needed] to provide military assistance to civil authorities following the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. The Pentagon also activated it to restore order during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.[citation needed]
    Under Homeland Security restructuring, it has been suggested that similar models be followed.

    “Oversight of these homeland security missions should be provided by the National Guard Bureau based on the long-standing Garden Plot model in which National Guard units are trained and equipped to support civil authorities in crowd control and civil disturbance missions.” Testimony of Major General Richard C. Alexander, ANGUS (Ret.), Executive Director, National Guard Association of the United States, Senate Appropriations Committee Hearing on Homeland Defense, April 11, 2002[1]

    [edit] See also

    Operation Urban Warrior – Marine Corps assistance to civil authorities.
    Rex 84
    National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive
    Posse Comitatus Act

  100. eattheoldpeople says:

    If SHTF…eat people…start with congress and wall st. first.
    Then move on to the illegals.  Hey, at least they work…we’ll cut them a first round break.  Then move on to the boomers…they fucked much up for us gen xers.  Then we’ll finish with the old.  No need to stock up on food.  There’s plenty walking around.  HA.  Further thought, Have a democratic rally…then shut the doors and gas the place.  These are the scrum that drove the entitlement programs.  I’m glad Ted Kennedy is dead…he’s the fucker that helped create the welfare state.  When it’s all said and done…just cut off the TV to blocks of hoods.  Then when the folks come out…shoot them for food.  easy.

  101. GoneWithTheWind says:

    Robinhood:  Contrary to how Robinhood is often portrayed he didn’t “rob from the rich and give to the poor”  He robbed from those collecting taxes to give the money back to those who were taxed.

    The top 1% don’t have enough money to fund our federal government for a month.  We cannot tax ourselves out of this problem.  The correct way to solve or money problems is to cut the size of government by about 50% or more and spend less, lots less.

    How people got their money and how much they have shouldn’t be your problem.  Your greed and jealousy is clouding your judgement.  If you want to improve your own life you cannot accomplish that by bringing others down to your level.  The solution for you is work harder, save more, improve your education and put more of your focus on yourself and not on others.

  102. mickey the pirate says:

    Comments…..We cannot EVER pay off the debt…I know Generation Xers like myself will not pay the debt since
     A..we did not make the debt..
    B we will recieve no benefits for ourselves later on
    C. we were not consulted when the old fools made these impossible promises to themselves knowing full well that it would be US who got stuck with the bill
    D. We had no say in this crap.. we got no benefit, and we are stuck with the bill
    E this is taxation without representaton…  
    Sorry Boomers and Greatest Generation… you are screwed and we are not paying for your crap…take care of yourselves as best you can… You damned greedy pigs didn’t even leave us that much..you said take care of yourselves as best you can, while paying for us to have a comfortable lifesyle in our 5 star retirement golf communities, while your own kids go hungry…
    Screw you… Let the collapse begin…I welcome it..then I am FREE OF YOU THIEVES WHO LEGALLY ENSLAVED MY GENERATION.. 

  103. mickey the pirate says:

    Comments…..I doubt you remember it, but social security was not originally a pension program for everybody..it was a safety net to keep the elderly poor from starving or freezing to death in the streets…PERIOD…
    You fools who claim its your money…what bullpucky…Do me a favor, look at your monthly social security check..now go back and look at how much you actually paid into social security taxes each month…see a difference…THAT IS MY MONEY…and you do not diserve it because you did not ask me for it first…  How this bloated monster morphed into a check for everybody I will never know…Oh..nevermind politicians buying votes… anyway..how about this fix…make it needs based…you want your social security check..deplete your own life savings first..once your bank account is empty, your house is sold and the money from its sale have paid for an apartment (or your reverse mortgage has paid out in full) THEN you get to live off of me…  I am not willing to give every pensioner in the country a check every month along with all the overpriced (due to Uncle Sam agreeing to pay any bill presented) healthcare for you if you are old.. thats your job..take care of yourselves..  Now I agree its going to be tough on people to change.. that is why this is needs based… Trust me Billionare Warren Buffet does not really need his social security check every month…the little old lady across the way likely does.. so we got to fix it and make social security what it was originally intended to be again.. the difference between life in poverty or death by starvation for the elderly..
    Social security is not supposed to be a method for many middle and upper class people to pay for their retirement while they get to sit on a mountain of personal wealth that they will pass on to their kids as a generational silver spoon…  I had to take care of myself all my life..I will when I retire too… there will be no social security for me.. As for welfare and all the other give away programs that promote irresponsible babymaking….sorry, when people have to face their 7 screaming babies all alone while living in their car and explain to them that they are hungry cause momma is too lazy to work or that daddy is a crackhead, and that there is no escape from the life you have made for yourself..perhaps people will decide to practice some birth control and not create more babies than they can financially care for… 
    Personally, I have too much self respect and pride… I have chosen to be homeless or hungry at times in my life…instead of accepting food stamps or welfare or anything  else.. I put myself through collage by myself.. I hated seeing the poor little rich kids there wasting their parents money as they looked down their noses at me as I cleaned their tables and carried out their garbage…In the summer I worked two full time jobs to earn enough to survive the winter again.. I did not have the money for good clothing, or for good food even.. I did not go to the mall or on vacations… I did not get a car from daddy and I did not have a trust fund, a inheritance or a credit card…but I took 18 hours of classes a semester, double majored in Physics and Math and made myself employable.  The first thing I did with my first paycheck was to go visit a dentist…I had had to suffer toothaches for the last year and a half of school…I paid my own way… I expect the same from everybody.. My wonderful daughter is in collage right now… I provide her food, shelter, a car and pay all of her collage costs…I want her to have an easier start in life than I did… However, she does not always understand how good she has it..  She hates the car I provided her because it is not fashonable shiny and new…I told her if she does not like it, I will happily provide her with shoes instead…she shut up…She recently said she wanted “Item X”… you know what I did…the same thing every loving parent should do in such a situation… I told her “Get a job”
    That is my advise for most social aid recipients…  

  104. GoneWithTheWind says:

    Micky:  You are being played by those who want to divide and conquer.  No “generation” is responsible for the debt.  The politicians and special interests are responsible for it.  It is no coincidence that our total national debt is roughly the same as the amount of money we have spent on welfare since 1964.  Welfare was essentially a program designed to buy votes.  Congress voted to spend your money and borrow money in your name to buy votes to get reelected.  If you voted for any of these big spenders in congress then, YES, this is your fault too.  If you don’t vote then YES this is your fault too.  Support those few politicians who are trying to cut spending.  With all of our support we will cut spending and stop borrowing.  Don’t be sucked into the whole “generation war” thingy.  

  105. JOE says:

    @Tekroanin
    I’ve read this entire thread…your first post, thought you were an idiot down here towards the bottom, I wanna know what you know! I like the zerohedge.com site. My question to you is this, and noone has been able to answer it…Why wouldn’t it be smart for me just to max out my personal debt, credit cards to prepare for this? I already have a years worth of food for my family but I’m in no way prepared for this and I’m completely convinced it will happen. I keep hearing people say to pay off your debts to get ready?. Whats the point if its all going to come crashing down?

  106. JOE says:

    Or anyone else for that matter that can answer, please enlighten us.

  107. Amber says:

    Joe, It’s always up to you…  I was wondering the same thing.  They say that inflation is great for debtors since the monthly payments will be low with a worthless dollar.  The problem for me in doing that is my income is not going to increase at the rate of inflation.  At my job, our salaries are pretty well fixed for each budget year.  So high inflation will be in effect, but my paycheck will be the same.  And I’m gonna need that miniscule paycheck to buy my loaf of bread each day. 

    You could, I suppose, take out a loan to buy something that will be worth more later — such as some silver or gold — then sell it after the inflation sparks and easily repay the loan.  But you have to be pretty confident that you can pull this off.

  108. mickey the pirate says:

    Comments…..
    Joe…Actually your idea to charge it is reasonable…Lets assume you are right and we totally melt down and go thru a period of total anarchy like the dark ages..you will have supplies you need and will survive..your profit margin…immeasurable..
    Perhaps you do all of this and we only get a bad case of inflation or hyperinflation with or without a depression…you could repay your debts with devalued dollars for a tiny fraction of their worth when you borrowed them…that is also a substantial win, especially since your supplies will help you to get through those times and will save you a fortune..imagine a roll of toilet paper costing $8…if you bought it for $1..your profit margin is 700%.
    Last, if nothing much happens, except you get a bunch of bills in the mail and a few annoying phone calls from bill collectors. A credit rating is frankly nothing of any particular importance to the common person most of the time..as long as you already have a functional bank account (keep it just about empty) a place you intend to live in for a while and a charge/debt card for those times you need to rent a car or something..(a prepaid one works fine and you can get those with any credit rating) Then…why should you really care about your credit score??? Those things were invented by bankers to use to figure out how much juice they can squeeze out of you as they make you their little debt slave..Why should it be a badge of honor for anybody since it is simply a measure of how far the banks can push you down and  shake you down for. If you are not intending to play their game then why worry.. as long as you make at least some effort to pay them back, (a dollar a month is legally making the effort) they cannot take you to court for theft..and once the statute for criminal action expires (about 3 years in most places) then no matter what, the credit card thing is a simple civil matter with no worse penalty than them attempting to collect the debt.. In most places and for most Americans, their salaries (living about paycheck to paycheck) cannot be garnished by the courts, since you need to pay your (and dependants) expenses first, and only the extra money you have left over each month can be taken to pay back the debts..and frankly, a reasonable expense in the eyes of the law is quite generous, leaving nothing in most cases to attach… keep any assets you have out of banks, brokerage accounts or other paper or electronic places where a collector could try to grab it and you will find that in a fairly short time, the collectors will stop trying to get blood out of a stone and move on to easier fish..
    The last option is nuclear so to speak…bankruptcy.. Do it…the constitutionally protected proceedure was put in place by our founding fathers to permit people who had been entrapped into involuntary servitude (debt slavery) to escape from it and to be free people…that is still an option..Please bear in mind, IRS judgements, student loan debts and a court judgements against you cannot be erased or discharged in a bankruptcy court..all other debts, such as unsecured loans, mortgages, car loans, credit card debts, personal debts ect are fair game for discharge or at least modification and a repayment plan (which normally shaves your debts down to pennies on the dollar)…Your credit rating will take a hit if you do a bankruptcy, but as discussed earlier…why should you care…
    The real question for you is one of honor and morality…you can do any of the things discussed as long as you are morally correct with it, as long as you violate no laws, and as long as you feel that you can justify your actions in this life on the day you are judged by your maker…The final question is…who would be harmed by your actions?  If you borrow from an elderly woman on a fixed income with the intention of not paying her back…that is just plain wrong… if you borrow fiat monopoly money from a bank which represents the Federal Reserve, your guilt should be zero, since they got the dollar bills from the Federal reserve who created them out of thin air for nothing…Then through fractional reserve banking, the bank took say $100 from the Fed. Reserve and by loaning it out, taking it back as deposits ect… did a cute trick and turned $100 into around $1000 dollars which are also not real…What did you really steal…a little paper and ink…

  109. mickey the pirate says:

    Comments…..One last thought…being financially responsible or not is a decision call you have to make for yourself.  As for being out of debt when SHTF, since the government could change the rules without notice, or devaluate the dollar (imagine if you had to trade in $100 green ones for $10 red ones) while your debt to the banksters (originally $5000 green dollars) is recalculated as $5000 red dollars…your original debt would be roughly 1000% bigger..that is why they recommend to be out of debt..plus some of our political class are actually considering creation of  debtors prisons again…
    A wise man once said…
    If a man owes a bank a little money, but cannot repay it, the man has a big problem…
    But, if a man owes a bank a gigantic mountain of money, the bank has the problem….. 

  110. GoneWithTheWind says:

    My theory is that you want to keep your head down.  No one knows how this will play out.  It could happen that the government decides the best way to fix the economy is to make the dead beats pay their debts and if no to confiscate what they have to pay them.  The point is don’t do anything to call attention to yourself.  The less databases your name is in the better.  I am opting to stay out of debt.  I don’t want to make it easier for someone to send a sheriff to my door with a court order.  Also, the worst possible situation would be to find yourself in jail for any reason after SHTF.  It seems likely that you would become dead weight and competent authority would be gone.  Keep a low profile, don’t owe anyone and don’t give anyone a reason to notice you.  Become the gray man. 

  111. mickey the pirate says:

    Comments…..Gone with the wind…you hit the nail exactly on the head with one sentence…keep your head down… I totally agree with you…and you are right..a jail would be a really bad place to be in a SHF situation…no food, no rules, no guards, no escape and no rights…just you and 10 hungry guys way stronger than you all locked up in a cage together…without any food to eat for days or weeks at a time…the stronger ones will survive  and be more fit and trim when found, since they will be on a high protein Atkins SHTF diet…sadly…you would be lunch..
    keep your head down, avoid confrontation (especially with authorities) make yourself inconspicuous.. get an older model cheap used car and loose the BMW or Mercedees or $35K pickup..aim low..you wanna spend 30K on a car, have a mechanic fully restore an older looking car to factory new condition at least mechanically…leave a dent or scrape on the fenders and the faded paint…make your ride invisible too…

  112. Amber says:

    I’d avoid debt too.  Your best bet right now is to live as cheaply as possible the next two to three months.  Cut the cable, cell phones, eat pb&j.  Use every extra cent to double your one year supply to two years.  Also time to think about that gun/ammo purchase you were avoiding (or that I was avoiding).  We are working on a plan to determine exactly what supplies we would need.  Then prioritize your spending to get the most crucial items first. 
    Also take care of those items that are cheap/free, but a bit time consuming.  Like washing and filling some 2-liter pop bottles with a short term water supply…or getting to know who your neighbors are, finding people who would barter or have skills.  Doing those things are harder than spending money, but will be well worth it.  (I’m preaching to myself here).  I guess I’m saying that instead of wishing you were able to pay for more supplies, maximize what is available to you first.

 
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