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    Watch: Massive Fireball Roars Through Suburban Power Lines, Blows Out Electricity

    Mac Slavo
    November 10th, 2013
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (265)
    Read by 23,463 people

    If you’ve ever wondered what a massive electrical surge from an electro-magnetic pulse weapon, solar flare or cyber attack might look like, then take a look at this footage shot in Montreal.


    (Watch at Youtube - Hattip Michael)

    In this instance the surge caused a cascading electrical outage across one neighborhood. Imagine what such an event would look like across the entire national power grid.

    Then consider how long it would take to bring essential services like hospitals, communication system, commerce processing, and banks back online.

    According to former Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, we’re talking not days or weeks, but months and years before utility workers would be able to repair key transformers and nodes.

    We could have events in the future where the power grid will go down and it’s not, in any reasonable time, coming back up.

    For instance, if when the power grid went down some of our large transformers were destroyed, damaged beyond use, we don’t make any of those in this country. They’re made overseas and you order one and 18 months to two years later they will deliver it.

    Our power grid is very vulnerable. It’s very much on edge. Our military knows that.

    Related Reading:

    Massive Vulnerability Detected In National Power Grids [SHTFplan]

    When the Grid Goes Down, You Better Be Ready [Ready Nutrition]

    You’ve Been Warned: Why You Need to Be Ready for Total Grid Failure [Organic Prepper]

    fireball-powersurge

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 23,463 people
    Date: November 10th, 2013
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    265 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. skittle shittin unicorn says:

      we as a nation are soo screwed

      for the last 40 plus years we have let the infrastructure in America fall apart

      bridges rusting out from the inside roads falling apart etc not too mention the shit state of the electrical grid. and now we have these so called egg heads telling us that all the power systems are vulnerable too hackers. and that both iran and china have made multiple attempts to get control of our system.

      now is the best time if its possible too get off the grid. its expensive but with the fact that there are huge tax credits available for installing solar panels and buying things like wood stoves instant hot water heaters etc

      a basic system costs about 6 K to 8 K and batteries are about $150.00 each but if you buy a complete system you get close too $3,000.00 back in tax credits

      skittle shittin unicorn

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        Over here the only systems ellegible for tax credits are grid tie
        Waste of money if you ask me

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        • Well, sorta…

          If you park a pile of solar panels on your roof, sure it ties to the local grid. However, as long as you add one vital ingredient (a mains shutoff switch between meter and home circuit/panel), it’s an easy enough fix if things get ugly.

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          • Only if you have your inverter tied to an alternate power source like a lithium battery back-up.

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            • TnAndy says:

              Most grid tie inverters will not run AT ALL without grid power…..safety factor built in. In addition to a battery bank, you’d also need charge controller(s) along with a hybrid inverter to be able to use solar panels off grid. 99% + of grid tied systems are not set up to be used off grid, and can not be adapted to do without major equipment change.

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              • nate says:

                I used to work at a aluminum smelting plant.
                We had a problem with birds nibbling on the power lines coming into the smelter. About every 6 months or so they would nibble thru the insulation and we would get a arc just like that between 2 of the incoming power lines. The electric company would arrive, shut off the power, restring new lines and be gone in a few hours. They said it happens all the time. They called it burn free or something like that.

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              • You can add battery backup and off-grid operation to any grid tied system. It won’t be as efficient as a off-grid system, but it does work. Google “AC Coupled Battery Backup”. Yes, you have to add batteries and off-grid inverters, but no charge controllers. It’s basically a giant UPS for your house, that can also be used to energize your grid tied inverters when the power is out.

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                • NWO has begun their GRIDEx experiments early? Dont think this is Planet X or solar flares. It is false flag outages using plasma weapons like over Russia, disguising it as meteors. The Deceit goes on.

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        • OutWest says:

          False alarm

          It was just the neighbor kid firing up his bong

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          • Be informed says:

            Want to see something? Watch the power go out for more than 12 hours and ALSO have no phone services, watch the eyes of people. Then watch when phone lines come back up and they get a recorded message that says, “We are sorry for the inconveniences, power will be back up when emergency crews can get to the problems, in the mean time remain calm”. After 24-36 hours watch the looting really begin. 72 hours into this watch as all the people driving around near empty tanks of gas start walking around like nomads with their plastic containers for gas, even their Jerry cans looking for gas. You will see just how totally frail the society really is just because the electricity went.

            Even a back up generator working at a few hours at a time can bring much comfort, yet maybe 1-5% of the population that can afford a generator actually has one. EVERYONE can afford some candles, of course during these blackouts you will see rows and rows of homes completely dark. If the water is not being pumped to the homes you will witness people getting water from swimming pools, ponds, bird baths, and many other unmentionables. Yes and soon thereafter in severe agony from poisoning themselves with chemicals or horrid bacteria. It would almost be amusing to watch how truly idiotic people can be and will resort to utter craziness out of desperation if it was not so pathetic.

            I could go on and on, but everyone gets the picture. The society has become totally dependent on power to live, a system that is almost as suspect to fail as all those so depenedent on it to not fail.

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            • Canadian Vet says:

              At least, so long as the gas keeps pumping, my family will not freeze to death if there is a full blackout. The main furnace May or may not keep functioning but it should pipe warm air by convection and half our house relies in a dirt-simple wall furnace. It’s fan wouldn’t work but it’ll still crank out heat. And in a crunch, we also have a gas stove. Don’t know if it’ll light without help once the lights go out but I got plenty of matches.

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              • gone under says:

                Some furnaces will not (ignite)heat without the blower on. Natural gas has booster pumps. wood stove is the way to go. Bartlett is full of shit. Xfrmrs are US manufactured too. modern furnaces require power for the control board inverter/battery or gen is needed.

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              • DaisyK says:

                I had a vented, 30,000 BTU, natural gas powered, wall furnace installed last spring. It heats by radiant heat and doesn’t require electricity and will heat my living room, kitchen and supply some heat to my bathroom if I leave the bathroom door open. Depending on who you ask, even in a grid down situation, there would be gas pressure for anywhere from two weeks to a few months. Every time I call the gas company I get a different answer. The heater I bought cost $750.00 plus tax and the cost of installation. I could have had them rig it up to a fan which would have been more efficient, but I didn’t. It is also possible to adapt it to propane heat, which is something I am thinking about for the future.

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                • Those are good furnaces. However I highly doubt that the gas pressure will last. After the Northridge earthquake the gas disappeared by noon the day of the quake.
                  As said. Firewood is your best bet.

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                • gone under says:

                  Dont count on it. Natural gas needs a booster(s) pump to get the pressure/volume through miles of lines. Unless you live next door to the well. we had loss of pressure safety shut off valves on our systems, so Im sure your utility provider has them too. I assume your wall furnace has a manual piezoelectric igniter or a pilot light otherwise you still need power to operate it. I would buy the propane conversion kit with a very large rental tank and keep it as a back up to install later if the price of NG catches up to propane or a grid down situation. Wood is easier to get as you could pick up sticks, cut trees, smash up dhs furniture into scrap, etc.

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                • Here is a report on the cascading failure in NM in 2011 that effected both gas and electricity. It’s highly likely a failure in one will take out the other.

                  http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/utilities/docs/2011-12-21_Final_Report_NMPRC.pdf

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            • braveheart says:

              Good evening, BI, and I do get the picture. I just read JOG’s latest report of solar activity. Interesting this comes up with the Grid Ex drill only days away now. I only hope it doesn’t become truly “interesting”. Somewhat O/T, but important. Check out at sgtreport.com, “Alert; Cyber Attack War Game To Test London Banks On Nov. 12.” And Grid Ex starts the next day. Coincidence? I don’t think so!

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            • CWinOR says:

              @BI- only thing I disagree with you on this post about it the “count-down to chaos”. Having lived long enough in the inner-city, I’d say that once word is out that there is a widespread outage, at least in the inner-cities, we’d be talking about MINUTES, not hours until looting of businesses started. house to house looting might take them up to 24-36 hours, depending on how good the pickings were at the stores, or if they already had targets of opportunity planned. If you didn’t get out of a major metro area within the first 6-8 hours- you probably wouldn’t be able to, and have to bug-in and pray.

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            • howdy-doody says:

              In my area of Florida, many of the newer large gas chains have generator backups for loss of power during a hurricane. I see them all over the place. But, common sense and human nature would show that this would only be good for so long. With people fighting over every drop available, long lines and shootings over supplies , would only make this a temporary stopgap.

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            • Hunter says:

              To>>>>…Be Informed & Mac.

              …and to everyone else reading this post…the Roscoe B. interview part is, sorta-kinda bullshit, per nobody builds such said transformers or the country is no longer capable of such!
              I call “sorta-BULLSHIT”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              I can attest to recent(summer-2013) personal(eye witness to the process/production) that currently exists in Bland(Virginia) & in Bristol(Tennessee) of the manufacturing of various-type specific X-formers!
              Some were HUGE!!!!

              -am sorry, I cannot/will not, name said companies/corporations.

              ..but both are ‘busy’ as I type this rant & both possess a VERY-VERY CAPABLE WORKFORCE of patriotic Americans…who think & are just like us…here at SHTFplan.
              NEVER DOUBT!
              The guys on the shop floor are…survivalists! I know them!
              We go back +25 years.

              Ditto:
              I personally know the plant mgrs/the production mgrs & the guys running-operating the CNC machines/equipment, as well as the maintenance dudes.
              Because, I’m the guy that trained them(operators/maintenance).
              Also, I’m the guy that installed/set-up/programmed/proofed/verified, a significant proportion of their computer controlled production equipment/machinery.

              Unfortunately:
              I am also the same guy that inspected, pickled and readied for shipment(years ago), a host of cutting edge technology/sophisticated CNC fabrication equipment, owned by those…”who brings good things to life(hint-hint)”—for transfer to MEXICO(thanks to NAFTA), back in the ’90s.
              Origin facility was located in Hickory, North Carolina.
              Oh yeah, those Tar-heel guys could really build some serious transformers. They were good people.
              I miss them!

              My view is, from out here in the trenches, per manufacturing in the US, spanning +33 years of keeping manifold companies’ production running, when nobody else could help them…t’was time to go solo.
              I’ve never looked back.

              I know, PACIFIC/WYSONG/CINCINNATI/DURMA/BYSTRONICS//BAYKAL/TRUMPH/HURCO/AUTOMEC/MILLER/C-MILLICRON/TOSHIBA/ACCU-PRESS/ACCU-SHEAR/HERR-VOSS/LODGE & SHIPLEY/BRIDGEPORT & a huge host of others…etc!
              Someone here, will comprehend.

              ..I am proof that Durango Kidd’s recent rant a few threads back, per striking out on one’s own…is a very necessary and valid “survival tactic”—if you possess the courage, the knowledge and most importantly the customer base!
              That said:

              Never forget…
              This nation(as evidenced by many here), to the vexing of the oligarchs, possesses an abundance of immense talent/skill-sets and courage, call it HEART/INTELLIGENCE & a LOVE of GOD…and truthfully, such exists here at Mac’s, ‘cuz I see it daily, absorbing the written posts on these boards.
              I am confident, indeed heartened that one day, we will win!

              Because, those who adhere to the truth, w/ honest conviction are incapable of being defeated, by evil in whatever guise it assumes.

              Aim small, miss small.

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              • Pissed Off Granny says:

                Hunter:

                Love your posts. We both know that the Lord loves truthtellers and He says they will win in the end. You have a lot to add to shtf and I look forward to your posts.

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                • Hunter says:

                  Ditto Granny, we actually learn from each other, dear!

                  …Ofttimes your posts have sent me on trips down, very deep, into the “RABBIT-HOLE”.
                  You understand, right?

                  ..searching/looking/sleuthing for corroboration
                  and the real facts/truths that you heroically post here!
                  Your batting average is 100% thus far and impressive indeed!

                  I guess, I’m a tenacious bastard of sorts, because in the end, you are always vindicated & vetted per research, as both intelligent and knowing…and not to mention, quite fearless indeed.
                  Respect!

                  I salute to you, madam!

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              • The Old Coach says:

                Well, I’m an old machine tool guy going back to the ’70s, and I recognize a lot of those names, but I don’t get your point.

                Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

                • Hunter says:

                  Old Coach

                  The points are-

                  ..oftentimes people tend to get tunnel vision & expect the worst news per this country’s manufacturing capability.
                  Many have no clue of the talent pool that exists in tool rooms/engineering depts & on the shop floors.

                  ..yes, manufacturing has been gutted to a significant degree, due to Wall St. greed & DC politicians reaping kick-backs per the greedy ones.
                  Yet for a former national politician to state that this country cannot/does not build (high tension)electrical transformers, is bullshit!

                  Also, there still exists a significant base of assorted machine tools, spread across this country. There is also a HUGE shortage of competent technicians to install/maintain/repair, said equipment.
                  ..and anyone capable of such, should heed Durango Kidd’s advice, to go into business themselves. Essentially, servicing & catering to a niche market.
                  His advice is a very sound survival strategy, as things get down to the wire!

                  First, your income doubles or triples almost overnight.
                  Second, the contacts you establish become a source of intel which never appears in the media. Third, you’re able to see things/events from a different perspective, due somewhat to your travels. I could go on a bunch, but I’ve got a Dr. appointment this A.M. Thus:

                  …see Smokin’ Oakie’s takes for further details.

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              • Be informed says:

                @ Hunter. You know when I see patriotic people that are survivalists it gives me a sliver of hope. Then I unfortunately see what has happened on a mass scale to most of the northeast in completely pro BO states. I see in my area that is very pro gun what happens after a black out with practically no generators running and no candles lit. This brings me down to Earth and shows me that 99% of non preppers is too true. You are personally surrounded by that 1% of preppers/survivalists and that is fantastic. Yet the country on an average is surrounded by 99% of day and nightwalkers of walmart.

                I wanted to doubt these numbers, 99% to 1%. I found those numbers are too true after each mini to moderate disaster. I see these ass monkeys after a power brownout go out and purchase generators, and then when it is over there is a wave of returns of these genearators or they go on sale on e-bay or something. This is sick, you would think these ass hats would learn for next time. NOOOOOOOO! They go right back into the same miserable state of denial and zombie way of life.

                I try so hard to be optimistic, yet I see the stark reality of what people are in general. A lot of talk, and a whole lot of lack from brains. Just like using statisitics for earthquakes and other natural calamities, numbers don’t lie.

                Look at the fine articles that Mac posts here, yet does this site ever garner 1,000,000 reads even? Never. It sure is not because the site is not of very good quality. It is because there are just not that many people out there that are interested in preparedness and the TRUTH. They rather watch miley cyrus get high at that idiotic music awards, whatever horsesh$% they did tonight. They rather hear entertainment garbage. They rather get almost mortally depressed in Tennessee because the team lost to the worst ever Jacksonville football team by two points.

                Then WHEN a super disaster hits, 99% of the fools that had the money and yet did nothing to prepare run around like fleas on a hot brick wondering what to do. Sorry about being pessimistic, but this is the facts. IF there was a higher level of people that were going to NOT be the confused and helpless, sites like this and many other that cater to being ready would have magnitudes more people at least coming to read what is being said. About 6,000 for this article, it should be above 100,000 right now, if the people out there were awake. At some of us are like the good people that come to this site, even if it is just 1%.

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                • Hunter says:

                  @ Be Informed

                  Sir, is it possible that we’re looking at ‘symptoms’ per the U.S./global sit-rep from two different angles?

                  ..your analysis, per this conversation, tends to be ‘strategic’..meaning the grand global/picture/viewing!
                  That is impressive, as few are capable of the seeing the ‘end game’ of the oligarchs, in such a context.
                  No sarcasm here, B.I.
                  You have respect!
                  Honest!

                  That said, my rant/post & indeed its reference, hails from the key words…”the trenches”!
                  Meaning tactical(close-up & personal experience).
                  The been there, done that type of thing.

                  ..also meaning, the recent life experiences/situations encountered & injustices suffered by…we, the everyday/ordinary folk, who live in “fly-over country” & the daily ordeals we’re confronted with, or have endured(via hindsight) in the not-so-distant-past.
                  Courtesy of the same Powers-That-Be, in its manifold entities(global/fed/state/county/local).

                  I think perhaps, I miss the nuances of the your ‘macro-analysis’ sometimes, relative to possessing optimism/pessimism, per surviving a real-deal SHTF situation!

                  I don’t worry over much any more, per that scenario…for myself.
                  I DO WORRY for my children & grand-children & their future.
                  But in the end, after prayers, planning & prepping, it boils down to this:

                  Bottom line bro’, it all about FAITH & COURAGE!

                  1.> Faith in ones’ Creator.

                  2.> Faith in oneself & the ability/skill-sets the Creator endowed you with & mandates we utilize, when the SHTF.

                  3.> Faith in thy better-half(husband/wife) to support such.

                  4.> Trust in the ones who’ll have your back.

                  5.> The COURAGE to understand all the above, coupled w/ the courage to “ENGAGE” the enemy.

                  6.> The understanding/knowledge that there’s a bunch of folks who’re…just like us, but they’re under-our-radar for now.

                  7.> ..Lastly, when its game on…and you see the Elephant and he winks at you, have faith, knowing that you’re really going home!

                  –in the meantime–

                  Aim small, miss small!

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                • Be informed says:

                  @ Hunter. That is exactly my point, the trenches with most of the people. Throughout life I have been so disappointed in people’s integrity and just how much talk they are and lack any true substance. For you to find a large number of committed to survival and common sense would be a gold rush. I found the cynical is the only way to find those that are loyal and true blue to what this site and other sites are about. It is very frustration and disenchanting to feel that someone is something that they are not. After all though you can’t change a person.

                  I blame BO and the other worthless garbage scows for much of this lack of concern for survival and the betterment of the people in general. They play on people’s behavior patterns and turn good people into worthless slobs that can’t and don’t want to even think and use their minds. It is all a control factor that they have gotten all too good at. Unfortunately most people can’t be free thinkers and mavericks, it is far easier to go with the herd. This is too bad, because if more people were individuals and didn’t take everything at face value to what they were told, none of this would have happened. Each election cycle proves all too well what I am saying. How could anyone vote for either of these two heads of the same beast was beyond me, yet it happened.

                  With what is coming it may be better to aim large, as in a street sweeper type of buckshot pattern and miss small. This is the type of world it has become and the worst is yet to come unfortunately. I am glad there are still free sites like this one still out there.

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                • pissinwiththewind says:

                  You said a mouthful with that statement BI; “…there are just not that many people out there that are interested in preparedness and the TRUTH”!

                  No one has the magic number as to how long we have until….; but, we can rest assured that judgement is coming. It has been foretold and will happen, I believe, before the end of this decade. Possibly, with the four lunar eclipses around a solar eclipse.

                  Anyways, what comes before judgment is called “chastisement”. For those not wise enough, smart enough, or old enough, to understand what chastisement means; it’s an old fashioned ass whipping, or gord thumping. If one has been evil/mean enough, they just might receive both. Got a few neighbors like that.

                  America is overdue.

                  It has written a check that it’s proverbial ass can’t cash. When the hammer falls, the “prepared” will prevail.

                  Enjoy while you still can. If there are things you want to see in this world, go see them. If there are things you want to do, go do them. Don’t live with regrets and could of-should ofs. Show compassion and love where it is due, and stand for what is right.

                  PWTW’s motto.

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                • Hunter says:

                  @ Be Informed
                  Per your comment ID# 2841737.

                  Roger that, bro.
                  Your last paragraph really nails it…

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              • @Hunter
                Good post! You wouldn’t happen to have access to some of the source code for any Fanuc canned cycle logic would you? I’m trying to develop a conversational program to generate cnc gcode for cnc lathes and I was hoping to not have to reinvent the wheel.
                So far my efforts have been fruitless, I think I will have to start from scratch.

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                • Hunter says:

                  @ W69

                  No…I don’t.

                  But I do know two who may, one’s an Amada old-timer & the other guy deals w/ Matsura & Mori-seki.
                  I’ll check w/ them and respond here.
                  Give me a week!

                  P.S.> ..any specific Rev level?

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                • Hunter,
                  I tried to reply to your reply but for some reason it wont let me put it down there so I had to put it here. That would be great, and I’m looking forward to it. The 6 through 21 T Fanuc, or any GE based control would suffice. Is the Cincinnati milicron also GE or is that Siemens? Or even Yasnac, Any of those I believe work pretty much the same.
                  Thank you, sir, any help is fully appreciated. I’m most familiar with the Fanucs on mori machines.

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              • braveheart says:

                Hunter, welcome aboard. I’ve been reading your posts with great interest. just like to welcome another great mind to our community. You’ve come to the right place. braveheart

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            • Mike says:

              Hello BI

              I wanted to ask you a question. Several years ago we had a 5.8 quake here in central VA. I think they said it was felt all the way to Texas. They said that quakes on the east coast can be felt a lot farther away due to the make up of the ground. Is this true and can you explain it to me.
              A few other things about that quake. It was centered about 20 minutes from a nuke station. The station is on a fault which I did not know. It is designed to withstand a 6.0. I know it is highly unlikely to have a major quake on the east coast. Can you imagine the catastrophe we would have if we did.

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              • Be informed says:

                @ Mike. Ever see someone ring a solid gong, you can feel the vibrations forever. Same thing goes true for the ground. The older the rock under you is, the more solid it is. The more solid any object is the more any type of vibration or movement is going to be magnified. The rock on the east coast and the New Madrid fault region is quite old. The Appalachian Mountains are some of the oldest in the world, they have been worn down over hundreds of billions of years. The rock and mountains out in California for examples are quite young at only a few million years and not near as dense.

                When you get a 6.0 out in California you feel it with anywhere between 25-50% the force of gravity. On very dense rock such a shaker can approach 100% the force of gravity. In general on this very solid rock you can say that a 6.0 earthquake would be like a 7.0 out in California. In some cases even up it 1.2. This is why that 5.8 felt and did damage that was more like a high 6 or even a low 7 at much distance.

                Nuclear power plants are like Fukushima, the least amount of protection for the least amount of money. A 6.5 would be like a 7 and 1/2 point earthquake and probably would do much damage to it on the eastern areas. Something above 7 on that dense rock and the nuke plant is likely to suffer significant destruction. I know, no one thinks ahead and WHEN something like Fukushima occurs that exceeeds expectations so many are totally screwed. Seems like that is happening an awful lot lately doesn’t it?

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                • Mike says:

                  Thanks for answering my question. Yes surprising things that people don’t expect have become more frequent. Whether natural or man made. I have seen you comment about the strange way some animals have been behaving. I agree with you on that. Weather patterns have become strange as well. We never had to worry about tornados here when I was a kid. Now we have 1or 2 a year. This summer we really had no hot weather to speak of. It rained continuously too. I have never see mm a summer like it.
                  Just makes you wonder.

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            • Man on the inside says:

              It is awesome having a fireplace with full insert and the fireplace was designed as a massonary fire place…. and having a lister diesel and gas geni… and those solar panels and “mikes windmill shop” wind generators…. working just fine. If you spend 300 a month on prep for five to ten years you would be amased on what you end up with…. sell a car or get a second part time job (I did) and get busy… your family and team (you should have one by now) are depending on you… PRAY, PLAN, PREP, FORM TEAMS…. and buy a flashlight……

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              • gone under says:

                I have seen 50 year old listers running without a rebuild, just clean fuel and regular maint. They are heavy( nobody is going to carry one away), noisy, and very very reliable.

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        • TnAndy says:

          Where is ‘over here’ ? Hawaii ? ALL solar (grid/off grid) is eligible for federal credits.

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        • “IF” a person received tax breaks or grants ect. from the govt for a power system…would the govt then have some say/ownership/control of said power system?..
          just askin because I don’t think the govt does anything but what it gains “something” in return…Id never accept anything from the govt myself…better safe than sorry..

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        • skittle shittin unicorn says:

          kulafarmer

          then you need to change the laws in Hawaii or help get them changed. not too be rude or any thing but stop letting the dumb shit hippy liberals run you wonderful state into the ground.

          the two times I have been there I have loved it and would live there except for the liberals and there bull shit

          on one of my trips the wife and I went to one of the state parks ( absolutely beautiful ) to see where the ancients went for sanctuary when they committed a crime and waited for forgiveness. when we pulled up to the gate we got treated to a political speech about how Barack ovomit was such a great man and the park employee couldn’t wait till this great man got in so he could change America.

          here in NV we can get the credit for any system

          and yes I agree the grid tie systems are a total waste
          those that have them here in nv are just helping too keep the casinos running and yes they don’t pay much for there power they don’t get much of a return and if the whole system goes down there just as screwed as the local power co wont let them put on a master kill switch to use the power for just the house.

          me I would put one on any way

          skittle shittin unicorn

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      • apache54 says:

        You are so correct except they let everything fall apart!! our whole country has gone to hell in a hand basket!!

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      • braveheart says:

        Welcome back, SSU. TPTB should be shot for allowing our infrastructure to go in decline over the last 40 years. All of the money spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus the money spent on creating DHS should’ve been spent on upgrading our infrastructure, especially the power grid. The grid alone could’ve been upgraded and shielded against EMP, solar flares, hackers, etc. and we wouldn’t have to worry about it. Way the hell too late to do anything now. I’ll admit I’m a bit nervous about the Grid Ex drill this week. Let’s all hope the 13th and 14th DON’T turn out to be “interesting.” But I am prepared for it. I have my electronics stored in a faraday cage [$20 metal trash can from Home Depot] using bubble wrap as insulation. Plenty of spare batteries for them as well.

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        • …wouldn’t it be the fault of the utility companies…in other words arnt they the ones responsible for upkeep and updates to the system…don’t they own it…does the govt have any responsibility for the grid?…I don’t know myself so Im asking….

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          • Ghostrighter says:

            @REB
            When the lights go out someday, for whatever the reason, it won’t matter whose fault it is or who owns it or who is responsible.
            The only person you can blame for something bad happening and if your not prepared to deal with it, is yourself.

            My #1 rule that I have lived by my entire life:

            ONLY PUT SECURITY IN YOURSELF AND NO ONE OR ANYTHING ELSE!
            if you follow this advice you will never be disappointed.

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            • Fred says:

              Right on Brother! You, and you alone are responsible for your own and your families survival. Best of luck to you and your family if you don’t prep, because luck is all you might have. Or not.
              May God Bless and keep the whole bunch of you.
              Keep on keeping on.
              Fred

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            • No argument here friend…not looking to blame anyone imparticular… just asking who actually has responsibility/ownership of/ for the grid because I don’t really know…govt or the utility companies or some combo…I suspect a combo…glad to hear youre independent of the system…its the only way to be…myself?…it wont affect me much if the power goes off…don’t use much “grid juice”and can do just fine without it…I have been independent of the system for decades…the farm will keep right on ticking…and this borrowed comp will just go back to its owner who doesn’t much care either…thanks to the rest of you who gave your thoughts/answers…”Live free or die tryin”

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          • Mike says:

            Not entirely. They would have to shoulder some blame. The absolute ridiculous red tape and beurocrasy they have to go through is astounding. If you try to upgrade lines then you must get approval from cities, counties, Nerc, and the Scc just to name a few. Then there is always some environmental group protesting the upgrade. You also have to get permits from the feds and state.

            I am surprised anything gets done in todays world.

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          • pissinwiththewind says:

            The gov and utilities are all in bed together.

            No one will be held accountable. When the first “Light” Companies were formed with the expansion of the electrical grid, the electric utility companies were guaranteed (by the gov), no matter what happened, a 10% minimum return on their investment. There was no way to go broke.

            If the whole grid goes down, it won’t matter what people want or what they say; it will take more than gov to get things back up and running.

            Self reliance and dependancy is what will matter. I feel sorry for all the city dwellers if it should ever come to that.

            Sure, solar and wind are good alternatives and “short” term backups, however; eventually they too will give out, and breakdown, or at least components of them will.

            The only surefire “alternative” is to be prepared to live without “eletric” energy. Have a plan as i do that revolves entirely on a simple, down to earth, survival plan. I hope we don’t have to resort to it but, if we do, we can rely on old fashioned horse/mule power and cooking and heating with wood. Hauling water from the spring will be a daily chore and I dread thinking about manual cutting and chopping of firewood when the gas for the chainsaw runs out, but; we can survive it, and with God’s help we will.

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          • skittle shittin unicorn says:

            reb and braveheart

            its the fault of both the Govt and the utilities the Utilities for being so damn greedy and taking all the profits and putting them in there back pockets

            most pub uts are just a mess full of corporate types worrying about there Mission statements and there twitter rates etc and not worried in the least about the actual company or the public

            and the Govt for basically just being a bunch of stupid greedy bastards and taking the money set aside for roads and bridges and wasting it

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      • Rodster says:

        “for the last 40 plus years we have let the infrastructure in America fall apart”

        You can thank Progressives for that. It’s all about being taken care of from cradle to grave and empowering corrupt politicians.

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Rodster

          They’re all responsible. They were all in cahoots to eviscerate US manufacturing and facilitate its removal to the developing world by dropping the tariffs. Billy Joel wrote the hit “Allentown” about it. As the tax base decreased so did the funds to maintain the infrastructure. We lived off the fat built up from the 1950s and 60s. We were hoodwinked to accept the concept of a “Service Economy” and falsely low interest rates to keep people employed and placated while under their very feet the wealth producing manufacturing component fled to virtual slave labor.

          .

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          • braveheart says:

            Rodster and Kevin2, absolutely. I remember the manufacturing jobs, at least in my area, paid one-third more money than service industry jobs. Back then, more people could make a decent living from just one job. I first noticed the trend of working 2 jobs to make ends meet back in the 80s. I worked 2 jobs myself from 1985 until 1992, so I know all too well how that game is played. I’m all too familiar with tough times. Nowadays, you’re fortunate to find 1 job, let alone 2. I don’t think there’s even any 2nd jobs left out there now.

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          • jbird says:

            @Kevin2…I use to live in Allentown. Now the buildings that were steel mills are a casino and shopping. The city is making more money then ever from the ppl gambling. Go figure.

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        • Makati1 says:

          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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          • Average Guy says:

            It’s not Capitalism, not by a long shot.

            Fascist oligarchy, is the term to use for what you’re describing, Makati1.

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            • braveheart says:

              Average Guy, you are SOOOOOOOOOOO right. Benito Mussolini himself once said, “Fascism should more accurately be called corporatism, the merger of corporate and state power.”

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          • Nopittypartyhere says:

            Actually ther is a small fee added into all electrical bills that is intended for infrastructure. May just be CT, but I would think its federal. There was a lot about this in local papers after the prolonged outages after our 10-29-2011 snow storm. The companies used the money to boost their bottom line all these years.

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            • Mike says:

              I do not know how it is in Connecticut. I can say in VA it does not work that way. I work for the utility company here. All rate increases must go through a hearing process at the state corporation commission. If a construction project is approved then you can ask for an increase to pay for it. The increase only last for the ammount that the commission agrees to. Then it expires.
              All parties associated with the project can give there oppinions at the hearings.

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              • Nopittypartyhere says:

                It was mandated through legislation or state govt committee. So there were hearings after hurricane Irene and that snowstorm. I just didn’t keep up with the outcome.

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            • skittle shittin unicorn says:

              nopittypartyhere

              we have it too in NV
              plus a billing fee
              a user fee
              plus an account fee
              plus an electronic billing fee

              plus an local govt fee of $5.00

              plus plus plus you get the picture

              adds up to about $15.00 in fees then toss on taxes

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        • Lanny says:

          Wake up! Saying the infrastructure is a total shambles is a lie and just another way for the Gov’t to create more fear, collect more taxes which never find their way to the intended purpose; remember shovel ready jobs? It’s just a sham people buy into because everyone needs the infrastructure one way or another, but there are already taxes collected dedicated to it that are siphoned off by every other unrelated cause & greedy pocket out there.

          Then when a bridge fails or a road buckles, the media is all over it and the willing ignorant masses buy it all; hook, line & sinker, yet the real problems are Never fixed & hence we’re still left vulnerable. They (NWO) want/need chaos to complete their agenda. So wake TFU, there is no knight in shining armor coming to our rescue; there’s just American citizens who are aware and willing to make a stand; Patriots…

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        • Tucker says:

          Stop calling these vile cockroaches ‘progressives’, Rodster.

          These maggots are greasy, filthy LIBERALS and liberalism is a mental disease that is 100 percent fatal to anyone or anything that gets infected with it.

          It might be worth noting that perhaps the one and only significant achievement of the traditional Conservatives on the right over the last 50 years – was that they were able to so successfully expose ‘liberalism’ as being a toxic, twisted, dangerous, destructive, and depraved ideology – that these egg sucking dog liberals decided that they had to ‘rename’ themselves. This is where this ‘progressive’ bull manure came from, and it is nothing more than a word game and anyone on the right side of politics who allows the left to distance themselves from their true identity is aiding and abetting the enemy.

          They’re LIBERALS. Hang that curse around their evil necks and make these sonsabitches wear that scarlet label.

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          • Pissed Off Granny says:

            Tucker:

            You are correct. The reality is:

            Liberals=Progressives=Communists=Zionism

            If you follow the chain you end up with a one world order controlled by the bankster Zionist families.

            In the “trenches” patriots are going to need to know who the “real” enemies are or we are never going to be able to lift America out of the pitiful trash heap she is becoming.

            The tribe is scratching hard to cover their tracks and to place the blame everywhere but on their heads. We must become educated and not allow this to happen.

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          • SWFL says:

            [... and liberalism is a mental disease that is 100 percent fatal to anyone or anything that gets infected with it.]

            This is only almost true. I know from experience (I saw it in the life of someone at work)that it is, fortunately, possible for a liberal to die from something other than liberalism.

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      • old guy says:

        Yes skittle the infrastructure is decrepid. But it don’t really matter in the long run. the coming economic collapse and wars would make it wasted effort. Then the continuing clatyclismic events caused by the End Of An Age pole Shift will destroy almost all of the infrastructure any way. Why worry about conditions things or people you cant control. The sad fact is there is absolutely nothing you can do to help, mitigate or prevent any castrophie.

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      • TnAndy says:

        Recently installed a “basic” system for a buddy with an off grid cabin. 1470w panels, 3500w Outback inverter (120v only), 800amp/hr 24v battery bank (8-6v L16′s…$250ea) He can (and will soon) expand another 3-245w panels, bringing it up to a 2200w system.

        Ran right in the 7k range, which handles his small place, with no heating (uses wood), no water heating or stove (propane). Does have a pressure pump (cistern, roof runoff for water, small, but standard fridge (no ice maker), MV, coffee maker, lights…..all the basic things that make electricity handy.

        He also has a 4kw Kubota diesel backup generator, but so far, hasn’t had to use it.

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        • jerrytbg says:

          I have a question or two…if you care to respond..

          I see that the system is designed to recharge the bank in a single day of less than 6hrs…nice…and the choice of batteries is superb…I wish I could put them on my boat ‘), too heavy…

          question 1, what kind of controller(s) are you using? And does it/they have a temp probe?

          The reason I ask about the temp probe is that it has been my exp.with that amount of amperage being put into a bank that rapidly will shorten the life, the number of recharge cycles. That system, based on his reported usage, shouldn’t even come close to the “50%” rule…and I believe you took that into consideration. However, it is my belief and exp., that larger “multiple” banks are more efficient. Plus the added convenience of being able to service more than one bank at a time is a plus, forgetting the redundancy in the system to compensate for the loss of cells, which WILL happen.

          I guess I only really had one thought on it at this time.

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          • Drew says:

            Off grid here +5 years
            I run a flexmax 80 and it does have a temp probe. used to run a flexmax60 but with 12 235w panels they were to hot for a 60 so upgraded to the 80~ [48v system w/16-PVX-3050T 6v 305amp]
            And here in MI I have to change my solar config winter and summer, winter is 4×3 summer is 3×4 the voltage stay roughly the same but it changes the amps coming into the controller.
            Would love to get somebody over here to tweak the system and make it “the best it can be”
            So far I could write a book on what I have been through [self taught]
            And FYI when connecting solar panels to you EPanel, make sure the white wire coming out of your combiner box goes to your batt neg bar AND NOT to your neutral bar as this tends to very bad for the worms near your grounding rod. just sayin…

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          • TnAndy says:

            Jerry,

            I used an Outback pre-built power panel. (Inverter, controller, breakers in/out, etc)

            First time experience with them, it was SWEET…..about as close to plug and play as it gets. You simply mount a wall bracket, hang the panel on it, connect the solar panel in wires, and the power out wires, the battery connections, and fire it up ! HIGHLY recommend this route over collecting and self assembling components.

            The controller on the board is an Outback FX60. Yes, it uses a temp probe you stick on the side of a battery.

            The battery bank is eight 6v L-16′s ( which for those not familiar with them is about twice the height of a regular battery, and weigh 112lbs. 400amp/hrs each ), wired in 2 strings of 4 each.

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            • jerrytbg says:

              I bet you did have some experiences…but it is VERY kool when everything is up and running smoothly. If you’re not too far from,what is it, Lake Superior? You might find some lake cruiser who can give you some tips.The problem with trying to give advice over Al’s network is that every system is different,and trust me, even on a boat.
              But in any case I do recommend multiple banks, each sized to handle the daily load plus 30% reserve.
              Look into also a wind gen. The ones from southwest air are quite reliable if hooked up correctly…The problem most cruisers give up the marine version is because of the vibration radiating throughout the boat…It’s funny to see just how many come up for sale this time of the year in my neck of the woods. Any way good luck.

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            • jerrytbg says:

              plug n play IS sweet… and I bet the instructions had many acceptable rec. for sizing and such. I’ve come across some of these land systems that are just awesome… makes me start thinking about towing a barge and running an electric motor…hahaha… but I like my Kubota M-25.
              And with a big Delco for quick charge and using the electric thru an inverter while underway, for AC, crockpot and reefer…life is good.

              For smaller systems this controller is very reliable…
              I put sockets for the active components so I can change an IC or CAP if they go bad…so far haven’t had to.
              I even have a portable version I put in a box I got from Mouser.

              This is a great little unit form Cirkits…I highly rec.
              and I don’t own stock in the company…
              nor am I affiliated with them. It’s just a solid product!

              wwwDOTcirkits.com/scc3/

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      • sixpack says:

        Oh great SSU—a tax credit, just in time for the IRS to snatch it up for failure to comply with obamacare. No thanks. I’d rather do it without the assistance of the govt.

        I wouldn’t worry any more about getting tax credits, than I do putting money into IRAs and 401Ks. It’s all low-hanging fruit for the govt asset grabs.

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      • Tom T says:

        It’s fallen apart because instead of politicians doing their jobs they used the money to fund pet projects and social engineering to purchase votes and pad their pockets.

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        • lastmanstanding says:

          Pet projects in key Agenda 21 areas…

          Is your area one?…and do you folks know how to recognize it?…what to look for?

          Who is behind it locally?

          Get busy.

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        • The Old Coach says:

          Dead on!

          No country with excessive government control, (which is always more a matter of favoritism than public benefit), can manage a modern infrastructure. Look at Venezuela. Their grid is falling apart because the regime has driven all the real managers out, and replaced them with political flunkeys. What we will see first in our grids is what they’ve got, regular, (even daily!), rolling blackouts, even if there is no all-pervading SHTF event.

          A corollary is the company with a strong, self-serving union. Good managers just can’t put up with crap, and go elsewhere. GM is a prime example (I was there!) Those UNIONS are one of two reasons why companies moved production out of the USA. The industries that are gone have two main similarities: labor intensive, and UNIONized.

          (The other factor is the EPA. All our foundries and primary steel plants are gone. Pretty soon only mines and power generation, which can’t be moved, will remain. And they’re killing those as fast as they can. Once again regulation that started out as a public benefit got co-opted to benefit their pals.)

          We are so screwed.

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      • Mamma D says:

        We went and looked at this amazing house. We weren’t able to purchase it, but if we could have we would have, totally off grid, well thought out, the pics don’t do it justice, it’s so spacious and really 100 percent off grid. It did give us lots of ideas we could use here at our place though. http://ky-realestate.com/WashCoOffGrid.html

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      • RickInOregon says:

        @skittle shittin unicorn, my home is tied to the grid. I’ve been working on installing some solar for quiet back up. I’ve run into a road block and I haven’t found the right information to get past it yet.

        I have a couple of 100 watt panels, a 30 amp charge controller, 2 six volt golf cart batteries and three 12 volt deep cycle marine batteries, a 1000 watt true sine inverter, with a second one ready to order up if I can over come a problem.

        My breaker panel has a sub panel wired to it that I can plug my generator into and power up needed circuits without back feeding juice into the grid. My intent was to plug my inverter into the sub panel. After frying a cheep MSW inverter on the test run, I learned that there’s a grounding issue and there’s a little more involved with the hook up. I know enough about wiring to know how little I know and now I need someone that knows more than I. As of right now, Youtube doesn’t know more than I when it comes to my solar project. In a pinch I can run extension chords and power strips.

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      • TheGuy says:

        I dunno where you get $6-$8k from, I consistently get $20k plus.

        I think the best thing to do is treat it like an emergency system, capable of refrigeration and a few lights.

        Of course… then you got the problem of the batteries taking a dump on you every 5-10 years…

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    2. JustMe says:

      Fascinating vid, the “plasma ball” seemed to defy electrical current laws. Current flow is instantainious, not slowly moving, there must have been something combustable for the plasma ball to follow. Even a huge power surge should not act that way.

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      • ArizonaTom says:

        Current flow is NOT instantaneous. In a normal electrical line individual electrons move quite slowly (I recall it being only around centimeters per second). The “change” in voltage does propagate quickly, speed of light. In this case though, you are, probably, looking at a plasma (not an electrical discharge). Pretty darn strange stuff

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      • braveheart says:

        That video was awesome. Never saw anything like that on any part of the grid in my whole life.

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        • gone under says:

          One time we blew a bussbar. half inch thick 6 inches wide of copper. It atomizes into a fire mist. Very loud too, like a shotgun next to your ear. The transmission lines in the vid that I did not watch probably did the same thing. One of our transformers in Oakland exploded (operator error) in oakland Ca also. I believe the vid might be found on You Tube or some training files Under EBMUD. cost to replace I think was around 750000$ to one mil.

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      • TnAndy says:

        You’re right. Probably burning the insulation on telephone and TV cable lines. (Main distribution power lines are uninsulated)
        My guess is they cross connected and the fireball was working it’s way to all grounding points along the way.

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      • Nopittypartyhere says:

        Saw this on the news right after it happened. Pretty cool, but the implications are sobering indeed.

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    3. That was cool.

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    4. Archivist says:

      Everyone needs to watch the film “Urban Danger.” It’s on youtube. There are lots of prepper tips. I think Sen. Bartlett has a neat setup.

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      • Outlaw says:

        Sorry to burst your bubble, but your fifth dude.

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        • braveheart says:

          Outlaw, I clicked that link for amazon he posted. That flashlight he linked to is a joke. I’ve got some LED lights that put that thing to shame.

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          • wrong says:

            braveheart

            I looked also and thought they looked decent. I have a couple Surefire 6PX PRO that are really nice. I have a thing with flashlights. My family laugh’s at me cause we (I) have so many.

            I liked the size of that one above. Any recommendations on lights would be great.

            You can’t have too many flashlights.

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          • Outlaw says:

            I too am a flashlight freak, but I dont personally like penlights. No-go for me.

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    5. Ghostrighter says:

      Most of the people in this country are in the dark already about whats really happening.

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      • Wilson says:

        @Ghostrighter,
        And they’ll continue to feel right at home when the grid goes down. sarcasm

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      • yental says:

        @ Ghostrighter: A simply stated…DEAD ON ACCURATE observation and comment. However, the collective “mental darkness” will be remembered as “light” in the coming physical reality. Opinion, theory, belief, and desire, will all become irrelevant in a “life changing/ending event” never imagined in the worst horror story, movie, or nightmare experienced or envisioned to-date.

        WE have been conditioned to endorse the “myth” that NOTHING like the scenario described can happen HERE! Certainly not more than 24 hours tops. After all, this is the USA, USA, USA.!

        WE ARE INVINCIBLE, THE SHINING LIGHT ON THE HILL, and THE “APPOINTED SAVIORS” OF THE MORONIC THIRD WORLD SLAVES AND IDEOLOGICAL DEFICIENCY OF HUMANKIND.

        A continent sized MIRROR would certainly be a potentially useful “TOOL” in this country right about NOW! But WHO would actually look into it…and accept the reflected image?!?

        THE “MIRROR” WOULD BE CURSED AND DEMONIZED and the “reflection” DISMISSED! OOPS, I believe that has already occurred.

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    6. Being prepared with secondary backup is important due to the numerous variables that can bring down the power. Here in the Southwest, power is so critical for life. quadrateq.net

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        Thats strange, there was life in the South West way before electricity,
        I have a feeling low tech solutions to basic problems will be much more essential,

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        • braveheart says:

          Kula, low tech solutions are not only essential but will still work.

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          • Ghostrighter says:

            @braveheart

            The Mennonite Community that I live by would surly agree with your statement. BUT since they are low tech they do not have the ability to agree with you as they have no use for electric and are of the horse and buggy sect. But I will on their behalf as I consider many of them as friends.

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            • Mennonites in these parts all use cars and tractors…nicer than I have…they have phones and use more electric and groceries than I do…even the Amish are sporting cell phones and paying white guys(Englishmen) to drive them to where they wanna go…and the buggies seem to be going the way of…well the horse and buggy ;) …seems alot of them got bit with the modern tech bug…most run sawmills instead of farming or sell metal roofing…getting so a lot of them are self sufficient/independent in name only…course theres a lot of em still work the old way….Im just noticing the change…sad in a way…Kula/Brave…low tech generally outlasts and outperforms hi-tech in my experience…that’s why I use the low tech so much…

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          • Tucker says:

            I’ve got a question that maybe someone can help answer.

            I have always been a huge fan of the Western movie genre, and have been fascinated with the Old West and the part of American history that involved the exploration and settling of the frontier. Anyway, in the Hollywood Westerns – which are, admittedly, not always an accurate source of information or which seldom seem to be sticklers for details about how life was really like during that period of our history – we are always shown the Western towns using oil lamps for their main source of lighting during the night time scenes.

            Here’s something I have always wondered about. Where did the people who lived in those towns get the oil that they used for those oil lamps? Was it some form of regular kerosene? Or, was it some sort of animal fat or something else?

            I don’t think I’ve ever seen a western movie that had a character in it who’s primary occupation involved selling oil or kerosene to the townspeople or to the saloons or other businesses, but every one of these entities are always shown using oil lamps for their main source of lighting.

            My instincts and common sense tells me that lamp oil would be a very scarce and, therefore, probably very valuable commodity on the frontier – especially in frontier towns that were in isolated areas of the old West.

            If anyone has any knowledge about this, please share.

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            • gone under says:

              Mostly whale oil. The remote areas probably used vegetable oil which would be alot of work. They could also stuff a wick in a dish of pine oil/sap which is easy to get.

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              • Tucker/goneunder…a lot of lard/tallow was used also…some beeswax in places…gotta figure though by the time the war of northern aggression was over(1865)(Drakes first oil well was in 1859), crude oil was being cracked into kerosene and its use was expanding rapidly(especially after ole “rockyfeller” took over the refining business…a lot of the western towns weren’t started till later in the 19th century…so kero would have played a role…

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          • The Old Coach says:

            BUT low tech cannot support the population we have. Not even close.

            What population did the southwestern aborigines have? Remember that populations always expand to the limit of their environmental constraints.

            With our high tech and intensive farming, 3% of the population feeds the other 97%. What was the ratio before WW1?

            For extra credit, think about how much modern farming depends on the grid.

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        • Prepared Pastor says:

          There was SOME life in the Southwest before power, but not much. The population of New Mexico, for example, was 195,310 in 1900. In 2003 it was around 1,875,000. That is nearly a ten-fold population increase much of which was made possible by electricity. In contrast my own state has only doubled in population during that same time despite being the second largest net exporter of electricity in the U.S.

          Too often people choose retreat locations based solely on population density and not sustainability. If 90% would die during a long emergency in one local and 50% would die in another, all things being equal those in the more sustainable area have five times the chance of surviving.

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          • Kulafarmer says:

            Similar to people building in arrid regions then irrigating it to lushness!
            Not sustainable!
            I get why people move to some of these areas, cheap land being one of the biggest draws, but why live somewhere that you cant imagine life without AC?
            Like you said, there wasnt much life out there in the desert, lots of lizards! Not too many people, livestock and vegetable gardens need way more water than man does, and you wont have anything without solid water supply, never mind electricity, thats secondary in my mind as far as needs would go.

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            • The Old Coach says:

              Why my BOL is in a place where people were living successfully as far back as the 1700s. I have family in high country Idaho, with a 200 foot well. If the grid goes, they will have to abandon and move a long way just to find water. But they think they’re safe if TSHTF. Maybe from the ravening hordes, but not from dehydration

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              • gone under says:

                You dont need power to pull water from a 200 foot well if you disconnect it from the captive air tank and use a hand pump. Your family is sitting pretty. snow, creeks, lots of rain, Im sure they can figure it out.

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        • TnAndy says:

          But there were not MILLIONS of folks living in the Southwest….it was mostly grizzly prospectors, a few hardy ranchers, and Native Americans. Power today means WATER, among other things.

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          • Kulafarmer says:

            Windmill with an above grade cistern

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            • TnAndy says:

              Windmill/cistern is what the hardy ranchers did. Millions of folks packed in cookie cutter subdivisions are totally dependent on municipal services. Take away their water and AC, and they are dead. Really, not much different than many places in this country, except for 120 degree summer heat.

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        • Warchild says:

          I have learned a lot from builditsolar and low tech magazine about simple/homemade power/heating ect.as time progresses want to try some of the things I have learned time willing.

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      • 10% Off says:

        The first thing I thought about in the Southwest would be water. Isn’t everything dammed up and then regulated and pumped? We talked about getting a place somewhere in the West since my youngest traveled to LA a lot. Water was one of my concerns.

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    7. Shane Vandrell says:

      Well now November 13th, 14th just a few days away. Grid Ex II Drill coming. What do you guys think will happen?

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    8. The VOICE from the Outer World says:

      Good Evening Everyone,

      Rather an impresive exmple of what can happen, no?

      Strangely enough….The remnant of NOAA 11872 – renamed as NOAA 11895 – has now reappeared off the Eastern limb – in the southern hemiphere – and LOOKS to be ‘Formidable’.

      The region is very large and as well, clearly has a VISIBLE magnetic delta in at least the rearward section of the spot group…as well POSSIBLY other area(s) also. Given that we habve seen average Solar activity so abruptly change it’s fundamental character over the last several weeks I would not discount the posibility of further high-grade M-class events…or X-Class, as being here likely.

      I cannot stress – sufficiently – how abrupt the change in the character of Solar activity that we have lately witnesed is. At this point, based on MONTHS of extremely low-evel activity THIS should not be occuring. That said, we have as yet NOT seen any truly “high magnitude” manifestations therefrom…ie, we have witnessed NO “X-teen’s”…or greater magnitde events.

      There are still more regions waiting to precess in along the Eastern limb, some of which aapear in the related current SECCHI imaging as quite active. For the nonce, those who watch such would do well for themselves to keep a ‘Weather Eye’ on the activity over the next several days…just saying here.

      JOG

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      • Antipater says:

        Did you notice how quiet the Sun got as soon as 1890 got earth facing?

        Struck me as very odd how we had so much activity and then as soon as 1890 turned earth facing, the GOES X-Ray Flux just went quiet, with the exception of the M/X.1 flare that went off and should graze us on the 12th.

        1895 shouldn’t be earth facing until sometime around next weekend ya?

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        • The VOICE from the Outer World says:

          Howdy Anti-

          EVERYTHING has been ‘strange’ of late. Beginning with the small spot group weeks ago that should NOT have been thrashing out X-class events, proceeding to the successive string of moderate to LARGE regions we have lately witnessed (which WERE NOT in evidence at all for…Oh, say 12 MONTHS…), to the curious lack of reflexive reactions in the planetary magnetosphere, as well the conspicuous absence of the classic electroon flux response to most all the CME’s we have watched over the long passage of time, etc ..etc.

          Here I assert, definitively,

          …”ME NOT KNOW!&#!@!!??^&*”

          …and yes, t’will be a few days only till 11895 is crossing the Solar Polar Meridian…about 5 or so

          Um-hmmmm, that said, as I have mentioned before this, not too very long ago, there ARE examples (in the record) of ‘multi-peaked Solar cycles….even the last one was arguably thus. However, most of the previous behaviours so noted did NOT poceed through such a drastic minima in the intervening period between peaks…Please, her,e take my word for it. So short here, “Curious-er and Curious-er…”

          What we saw post Spring-2012 in Solar behaviour was an incredibly cyclic periodicity in the measured Solar flux in the 10.8 cm band – think the Penticton Flux, as well that reposted by the Eurpopean via Amsterdam (reported daily via Solen.info) – which persisted ‘metoronome-like’ until just a few months ago…roughly around the time that the anomalous flaring associated with, and after the April Super-GRB passed through the Solar System.

          I have been STRIDENTLY proclaiming that the results of the HINODE data evaluation (Spring 2012) definitively indicate that ‘something’ hithero unwitnessed by Solar Science was transpiring …all the while PRESUMING – apriori – that the Sun’s reconfiguration into a ‘quadrupolar electrical configuration’ signalled just that. And now…”I Dunno”

          Incidentally..while I’m here – and this is for BI predominantly – there IS a reason that I have been able to identify as to WHY the passage of a sufficiently potent GRB would have significant effect on the SUN…at a mminimum.

          A careful re-read of both the General Theory of Relativity – that one dealing SPECIFICALLY with the gravitational aspects of Messr. Einstein’s ‘Relativity’…for those unacquainted therewith – as well several rather deep treatises ciruclating through Academia yields the following;

          In ‘flat space’…that is, Space not significantly ‘curved’ by the action of an exidtent STRONG gravitational effect, the presence of a large mass (at the very LEAST, stellar sized) nearby, the passage of a gravitatiopnal wave there-through has a curious effect. A branch of mathematics called “Cohomology” deals with the task of attempting to ‘continously’ grid a Space with a variety of possible constructs which allow for the establishmant of a true ‘frame of reference’ throughout. As it happens, in a variety of theoratical situations this is NOT always possible – EVEN in a ‘Continua’- so that a fully enfolded referencve sytenm CANNOT always be described mathematically. “Well, What the Hell does that mean?!” you ask naturaly. Apologies here Folks… this IS about as THICK as it CAN gets I’m araid…

          What this means is the TOPOLOGICAL properties of any real, continuous “Space” (frequently refered to as a ‘manifold’) are NOT continuously deformable – one into the other – ATFER the passage of a gravity wave THROUGH said Space. Here, that means that any sufficiently STRONG gravitic manifestation (wave) would lead to the formation of discontinuities in the local continua that in all likelihood would manifest as the “KNOTTING’ of things like magnetic field lines…both within and around the Sun. As such, this would be a direct explanation of WHY we almost always see the increase in flare activity AFTER the passage of any such…that we do.

          Given that we have only just some few week ago seen another VERY large GRB pass through the Solar sytem – at which point the current activity began going ‘fruit’ – then we might WELL see additional activity occurring as 11895 spins across the visible disk….also, this ‘shit’ is ‘WAY off the beaten path’ and lies SOLEY in the realm of pure educated speculation…Sooooo, Take it for what it’s worth.

          Amywho…”Me TIRED tonight…me GONE”

          Adios All

          JOG

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    9. Not Eisenkreutz says:

      I recently seen a statement and I quote “Life’s a bitch, if it was a slut it would be easy”. I tent to think that some are here to learn how to turn a bitch into a slut.

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    10. Warchild says:

      I have to say,my favorite band(Tull of course,hence handle)covered issues with global blackout ect. on the Heavy Horses Album and Storm Watch,got me thingking as a young kid about such things happening.Heavy Horses covered going back to a old school agrarian lifestyle with working horses while on Storm Watch covered a blackout of modern tech with the song Dark Ages.I will say I miss their heyday of the 70′s as a young lad!Used to see 4-5 shows a tour,good times!Seen em over a 100 times thru the decades including what I believe final tour as a band 2 years ago in Red Rocks 2nd row,I highly recommend seeing a show at Red Rocks some time in your life,awesome venue.To quote the beginning of Dark Ages:

      Darlings are you ready
      For the long winters fall?

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    11. How will I be able to charge my iPhone?

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    12. TPTB are liars says:

      Yes this week should be interesting. We have an x1 produced CME hitting us on the 12th. And it happens to be right before GridEx!! Right now there is a 30% chance of more x flares in the near future.

      Got the faraday cage ready? I would suggest turning off the main breaker in your homes from the 12th to the 14th if possible. Or at least unplug non essentials. A cme burst may be able to jump across the breaker, but maybe not.
      molon labe

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    13. Warchild says:

      Tell me this song isn’t perhaps a bit prophetic:

      Darlings are you ready for the long winter’s fall?
      said the lady in her parlor
      said the butler in the hall.
      Is there time for another?
      cried the drunkard in his sleep.
      Not likely
      said the little child. What’s done
      the Lord can keep.
      And the vicar stands a-praying.
      And the television dies
      as the white dot flickers and is gone
      and no-one stops to cry.
      The big jet rumbles over runway miles
      that scar the patchwork green
      where slick tycoons and rich buffoons
      have opened up the seam
      of golden nights and champagne flights
      ad-man overkill
      and in the haze
      consumer crazed
      we take the sugar pill.
      Jagged fires mark the picket lines
      the politicians weep
      and mealy-mouthed
      through corridors of power on tip-toe creep.
      Come and see bureaucracy
      make its final heave
      and let the new disorder through
      while senses take their leave.
      Families screaming line the streets
      and put the windows through
      in corner shops
      where keepers kept
      the country’s life-blood blue.
      Take their pick
      and try the trick
      with loaves and fishes shared
      and the vicar shouts
      as the lights go out,
      and no-one really cares.

      Dark Ages
      shaking the dead
      Closed pages
      better not read
      Cold rages
      burn in your head.

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    14. Warchild says:

      Damn,posting a lot tonite,will be working a gig for a week or so with no net without traveling a bit(how will I survive!),anyhow,to all the vets on the board,Happy Veterans Day!Yes,will have my Molle bug out pack with me,so,if this is the week,will be ready!

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    15. braveheart says:

      Good evening, JOG. I find it interesting that this activity comes right about the time of the Grid Ex drill scheduled for the 13th and 14th. I just hope those 2 days pass with NOTHING happening. braveheart

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      • howdy-doody says:

        I have never believed in coincidences. The coming grid test being scheduled for this date isn’t one either.

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      • The VOICE from the Outer World says:

        Howdy bh!

        Sorry I haven’t been around as much as I once was…the ‘tiny’ net access I use now limits things SOOOO MUCH.

        Proceeding, here…”Indeed Friend’. What we can see right now as 11895 is JUST precessing into view is sobering, especially in light of the anomalous activity that has been occurring for some few weeks now. As you are one of those who deinitely has the ‘Solar Bent’ in life, you might take a look at a conjecture that I posted slightly above this response.; I have ‘dwelt’ on this for some time, it drives me ‘nutz’ seeing things occurring which have no apparent basis…we SHOULD be proceeding directly at this point into another Solar Minima like the Maunder (1645-1715)…yet we are seeing behaviour that suggest antything BUT.

        I am waiting ‘with baited breath’ to SEE what happens as 11895 passes across the visible disk…

        Oh, and while I’m STILL here (I saw your post JUST before departing for the night Friend…and it has been quite some time since last we ‘chatted’…thought I’d stop to say ‘Hello’) IF we have a SOLAR CATASTROPHE at some point in the near future, THANK tthe POWER COMPANY excecutives for your return to THE DARL AGES, FOREVER!

        ….all because they were TOO CHEAP to place the neccesary ground loop capacitors on the back-bone UHV transormers – which distribute ALL OUR ELECTRICITY – before it happened…because they could’nt AFFORD to take the sections of the GRID down piece by piece long enough to install them – thus losing MONEY – just ‘remember’ them fondly…Eh?

        JOG

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        • braveheart says:

          Good morning, JOG. I don’t really have a ‘solar bent’ as you put it. You are definitely the resident ‘solar expert’ as far as I’m concerned. your posts are definitely interesting and especially when you and BI have exchanges; now that is a real treat. Whenever the grid goes down, regardless of the cause, the utility companies will be out of business just like everyone else. Their executives and CEOs should go into hiding just like the politicians, bureaucrats, etc.

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        • gone under says:

          @ JOG…Agree with your post. But I would like to point out that we are not Obligated to buy thier electricity. If someone doesn’t like the service and rates, Disconnect and make your own. We have co-op up here. I dont like the 7000$ hookup fee to my prop where I am going to build, so I will build a stand alone system…. like you have. Business’s, manufacturing and home owners should have got on the power companies ass and demanded upgrades to the grid which would increase the rates. Instead they got smart meters and air conditioning peak usage shutoff switches.

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          • The VOICE from the Outer World says:

            Howdy gone under,

            Gee., your words seem strangely ‘familiar’ to me ;) is the FORCE strong with you? :) Just kidding there Friend…

            In truth, you are ABSOLUTELY ‘correct’…the End of ‘BIG’ everything IS on the Horizon…NOW, approaching at ‘flamk speed’. As such, what you point out here is ‘perfect’. When ‘BIG’ is gone…and it is now a CERTAINTY that THAT is no longer “sustainable”…then do all things devolve back to where they should have been all along…with individuals and small groups of INDIVIDUALS; acting in concert to common ends and GOALS, for thier MUTUAL benefit. Thus, will a New Light come…CERTAINLY.

            …it remains thereafter only to ‘codify’ a new FOUNDATION in Law..which underlies it and SUPPORTS it…and PREVENTS the adoption of ‘insanity’ as public policy. Currently, several of the States have adopted the “Castle Doctrine” as principle. “Doctrine” in Law undelies it and forms the ‘firm footing’ from which THAT proceeds; Law that is contrary to Doctrine’ is patently absurd, thence, ‘inoperative’.

            Soon, that TOO will come…for in Truth, it is already HERE…waiting patiently.

            Keep on developing the off-grid infrastructure at the fullest speed you can…I have no idea what you are using if tapping ‘hydro’ but the old patents on the ‘Pelton Wheel’ deigns are FASCINATING! It seems to me that someone with the requisite skills in Computer CnC could bang those out (the truly efficient ones) at a rate that would be amazing!

            Also, while I’m here, it has JUST come to my attention that in the early days of snowmobiling that ROTARY engines were a common THING! Fancy that? To be sure those then had a severe predisposition to seal failure as well other things, BUT, in the intervening years since, Mazda has effectively solved most of those problems rather well I’m told. THAT, also is another ‘item’ that would be FANTASTICALLY easy to machine in a CnC setup given it’s inate simplicity,…only 2 MOVING PARTS!!.. Eh?

            And if THAT doesn’t get your attention, then go online and look-up the “Dolmar-Sachs ROTARY (WANKEL!) chainsaws from the early 70′s…

            When I first stumbled over that a while ago the thought that immediately came to mind was ‘Welll…I’ll be DAMNED!!!” Remember Y’All, the ROTARY engine develops 3 or MORE times the horsepower of a reciprocating engine POUND FOR POUND, of motor weight…can you say ‘HOLY MOLY’? ;)

            Guys, GALS…really..we NEED to start figuring out ALL the things to take with us when we ARE FINALLY GONE ‘Native’:when the fool’s have been left to thier final Fate’s. Had I had MORE time, amd Capital as well, there are SEVERAL other ‘things’ I would have brought, in retrospect. Incidentally, any machinist types here…possibly with their VERY OWN CnC setup to boot?

            Mercy!…SOMEHOW we GOTTA find a connection! IF not BEFORE the fact, then AFTER the DUST settles…Ya Think?

            Dwell on it for a bit Y’All…see what YOU come up with.

            JOG

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    16. Be informed says:

      The decription of what people are saying over in the Philippines, “WORSE THAN HELL”. You look at those poor people that have had a tsunami and tornado hit them at the same time in Hurricane Haiyan. Yet, you have the power go out for more than a week and people in this country will make the same remark, worse than hell. I mean honestly, people over there get whacked by walls of water that weigh plenty. A cubic foot of water weighs about 62 pounds. Winds that are as fast as a race car, They have a country that looks more like the Indian Ocean tsunami plus Joplin, Missouri. Still the power goes out for more than 7 days and the people here will likely suffer just as much as over there.

      Is it just me, or is there something horribly wrong with this? Where has America become so throughly filled with the weak and helpless that they could not weather a week or two of loss of power? Something is terribly wrong and BO and the worthless congrees and government have just made this massive problem that much worse.

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    17. Unreconsructed Southron says:

      At least the collapse will pretty…

      For a second.

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    18. Joe S. says:

      I’m willing to bet the powers that be are going to deliberately shut down the power grid. I’m sure that is in their top 10 list of “to do’s”

      Man will it get ugly if they ever pull that card

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        It would be one way to thin the heard, the MRAPs will be good for recon.

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        • Not so Much says:

          Ima let you in on a little secret. You’ve seen those huge tires on MRAPS. I suspect they have run flats in them.

          Well, if they are anything like the run flats in a 5 ton truck, (working from distant memory) they are huge metal “half donuts” that are bolted together and then bolted to the rim.

          Well, they take several hours to replace because they are heavy duty and VERY heavy. SEVERAL hours. the motor T guys in my unit expressed much displeasure at having to change their tires and could make changing a few tires an all day affair. And then to have to repeatedly do it….

          I’ll let your imagination proceed from there.

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    19. Nopittypartyhere says:

      Speaking of no lights…If there is anyone out there that does not have a dollar tree nearby, on their website you can bulk order the tall glass prayer candles for $1 each. There is a minimum purchase of 1 case (12). And if a store is nearby they have in store pickup to avoid shipping charges.

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      • Farmer's Daughter says:

        I love those candles! Ihave quite a bit of them and use them regularly. They last sooo long, burn time. I used one two nights in a row for four-five hours each night and only used about 1/8 of it! For a dollar, you can’t beat it!!

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    20. Johnnyringo says:

      Power going out is my ultimate fear. Wow be informed makes so many great points. I think if it were to happen people would have fun the first day. Neighbors would be outside grilling food, talking about how they are missing the football game or whatever hey watch. By the end of the week they would be killing each other for food.

      I went fishing today with my gf. It was cold and we didn’t catch anything. Trees were barren and I just had this horrible feeling come over me of what if we were starving and trying to catch fish. What if our stomachs were empty while being cold and miserable? Makes me want to prepare more.

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      • Antipater says:

        Practice fasting. It helps you understand that hunger, while scary, is not unbeatable. Just don’t panic and realize that you can go for quite some time without food if necessary.

        You must conserve energy, and focus on what is edible.

        Work your way up to 3-day fasts, trust me it is a good exercise.

        Also if you fast just ONE day a week, by the end of the year you have not eaten for 52 days out of the year….little diet benefit =).

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        • Lake Monster says:

          I agree. I found out how little food I could do without when I had a huge gallbladder problem hit. I never thought I could survive on so little, but what I found was that my body adjusted and adapted and I was fine. It takes getting used to, but once it’s over that hump then you can eat little and still be okay.

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        • Canadian Vet says:

          Except that you KNOW there is food available at the end of your planned fast. When you are on an “involuntary” one like when SHTF, there are no guarantees you will have access to food after those 3 days. So while it isn’t a bad idea to prepare yourself for the effects of prolonged hunger, fasting is hardly a solution. Without food, you will soon lack the strength to go looking for food.

          And the masses, most,won’t even consider missing a meal, let alone willingly going hungry for 3 days. And when enough hungry people get together, it will get ugly. And bloody.

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        • Jack Hammer says:

          Too true. Long ago when I was in my thirties I was working 120 plus hours a week for almost two years. I didn’t have time to cook nor the money to buy fast foods and when those two years passed by I discovered I had lost over forty pounds from my normal 165 pounds. I wasn’t “fasting” in the true sense of the word but the end result was the same. Many a night while working my “lunch” bag had four or five Dark Chocolate Milky Way bars in it. That was all I ate while working those long hours and lots of coffee to keep me going. After those two years of long hours ended I quickly regained my weight in a month or two of eating normal.
          Stay Frosty!

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    21. Buzzfix says:

      When the sun goes down…It won’t be good. Rackem’ lightem’ and wait til morning. I’ve said before have fortifications supplies on hand for when the mobs come around. You’ll be thankful you did. Doors windows perimeter etc…

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    22. Farmer's Daughter says:

      The power in our small town and the surrounding area, including our farm, went out the other day. I treated it like grid down. I was glad to find that we were much better prepared then we were this summer. We were organized and were not as stressed. We still have more to do but I am finally losing that ” I am gonna die” feeling from not being prepared. Thank you to all who comment here with help and suggestions.

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      • Lake Monster says:

        Farmer’s daughter, that’s awesome.

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      • Jack Hammer says:

        You are confident in your capabilities to survive now thanks to preparing! Good job! I know the feeling. After surviving my first hurricane long ago I told myself “Never again!” and I’ve been a prepper ever since.
        Stay Frosty!

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    23. Shifty says:

      I thought Blackout was another term for Flash Mob.

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      • Warchild says:

        Hmmm…I thought blackout referred to a .300 round.

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      • 10% Off says:

        I guess that’s why I don’t freak out about the SHTF as much as I probably should. After seeing how most people react to a f’ing sale on Black Friday, these idiots will kill each other before they ever get to us. They will act the same way to being hungry as they do for the 50% off sale at the local mall! I don’t feel sorry for most people. Kids and the very weak and elderly, I do. Those capable that don’t/won’t see what is going on….I can’t have pity on them. They have eyes to see, they just refuse to.

        Everyone stay safe and thank you for the great posts! We don’t always agree, but I love to see the different viewpoints….makes you think of things you never thought of before.

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    24. mike prince says:

      As a locksmith I change locks for owners of rental property after sometimes months of no electricity. I buy 99 cent cans of air fresh. The smell can be intense. They are given away to the customer pro-bono. Scented candles can be had for $3 to $4 and last 18 hours. Light and a much needed sense of well being. Cheap, useful and no shelf life to worry about.

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      • Tucker says:

        I have a fantastic tip to share with everyone.

        There is a company that manufactures solar lanterns that are heavily used by many third world countries where they do not have a dependable electrical grid. They are called ‘d.light’ and their website can be found here:

        http://www.dlightstore.com/

        I’ve bought several of their lanterns, and it is incredible how much light they can put out. They also have the ability to charge many of the portable electronics gadgets, such as cell phones, mp3 players, etc., using the solar panels that are either built into the lantern itself – or, if you purchase the S300 solar lantern and mobile charger unit – by using the attachable solar panel.

        They are supposed to hold a charge for up to a year. I tend to put mine on the window sill every day when I raise the blinds, and put them at the sky – just to keep them charged up, in case of an unexpected emergency.

        Free shipping is offered for orders over $20. I highly recommend that everyone order as many of these lanterns as you can afford. One for each room of your house. And, they are also great for camping and backpacking – especially the s2 model. Compact – can easily be stuffed into a backpack or molle-style pouch.

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        • Pissed Off Granny says:

          Thanks Tucker for the lighting link!

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        • The Old Coach says:

          Caution – those are just re-packaged versions of those solar garden lights you can buy for about six bucks. They use cheap solar panels made in China, and they last about one summer.

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        • Calgacus says:

          Youre right on the dlights. We have had ours a few years now and use at least one a night instead of flipping on a light to get from room to room in the dark.We have the little ones. Do the red tops come off to replace the bulbs if they burn out? I tried And the tops dont budge on ours.

          Nice little solar lanterns.

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      • Not so Much says:

        I read a story someone posted on here awhile back that recommended non scented candles for survival purposes.

        They may be nice when you burn them for a little while,
        but extrapolate that to burning them hour after hour after hour. That scent becomes toxic.

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    25. Be informed says:

      This is what a mega disaster on a SMALL scale looks like. Try to imagine this on a continent size level. Can’t happen? I can think of many ways worse can happen, and has happened before in the Earth’s past.

      Must see pictures:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2496954/Starvation-fear-land-laid-waste-200mph-typhoon-killed-10-000-Dazed-survivors-scour-streets-food-mobs-attack-aid-trucks-Philippines.html

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      • Lake Monster says:

        That’s incredibly horrifying!

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      • old guy says:

        Im of the opinion we are facing Mega Clatycismic End of an Age Earth changing events. Electricity will be low on the priorities for many. Water – food – shelter- security will all be more importiant than electricity, Many sheeple just cannot fantom that a disaster like the philippines just expierenced can happen where they live. Many are in for a rude wake up call.

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      • 10% Off says:

        BI – These photos and videos are sobering. It can happen here. The people of the Philippines are way more resilient than Americans would ever be. Most people here could never live through something like this, even if they survived the original event. Seeing the reality breaks my heart for those affected.

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        If we got a storm like that it would detroy about 90% of all structures.
        Yet every year around the start of hurricaine season when the NOAA and Hawaii Civil Defense warning bulletins and preparedness guides show up people brush it off as cant happen here.,
        Stupid is the only thing i can think.
        Its not if, but WHEN!
        My house would be flattened, guaranteed, anything over 100mph and the roof and second level will be gone! Daylight basement should be ok, wet and leaky but is half burried in the ground and is all bolted together and shear paneled,
        Yet i have aquaintences who live in rinkydink homes who think they will “handle” a hurricaine,
        Again, stupid.

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    26. Be informed says:

      @ braveheart. There are few like you on this site that are so enthused about preparedness. I sent a link that is waiting moderation that shows many pictures of the Philippines disaster. When you see what Mother Nature can do, it should be a wake up call for many, of course it won’t be. This is why people on this site prepare, WHEN something like this happens. You have got to see what happens when water and wind are driven by enough force what happens to human’s construction and cities. Again, this is why people prepare, WHEN something like this occurs to their home and community.

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    27. Lake Monster says:

      I’m lucky because the first power outage in winter that I experienced was with my aunt who was living in Montana, many miles outside of Big Timber. We got dumped on and woke up the next morning with snow up to our hip, and the mailbox and drive way was buried. She was three miles away from the nearest house. She didn’t flinch a bit. I learned a lot from her and wish I could call her to get more tips, since this was many moons ago. She’s been dead for years. But to me, she was a true survivalist, who was ready for pretty much everything. I feel absolutely unprepared no matter how much I do. My biggest concerns is no electricity, and I’m constantly thinking of ways to survive here without it in winter.

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      • Tucker says:

        I have always wondered how people can stand to live up in areas like Montana and the surrounding states – where those absolutely brutally cold winters are always going to visit. Prepping for life in an area like that would be a full time job. Imagine how much firewood a family would have to cut and store away just to make sure they had enough to get through a single winter? Multiply that amount of firewood by who knows how much, if dozens or hundreds of families are all living in a community and are all competing for the available timber.

        Plus, as people get older – they are not going to be as physically fit as they were when they were in their younger years, but – if they are trying to live in a rural and semi-remote location, they will still have the same requirements to stock up on enough firewood to get them through the winter. Imagine being 70 years old, and having to chop and cut down trees and then split the firewood into pieces that will be suitable for a fireplace or wood stove?

        That’s probably why the White European Americans who settled this nation – tended to have bigger families, and lots of kids. Needed the extra help, just to survive.

        In the case of Lake Monster – I would recommend that it would be a wise thing to have some redundancy in your preps for surviving those cold winters. I’d get two or three of those big heating oil tanks and keep them filled up, and also have as much firewood put away as I could manage. Never find yourself in a position where you have to rely on only one source of heat.

        Redundancy is critical.

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        • gone under says:

          Funny you should mention firewood and Montana. We had high winds last week that blew over trees in the National Forest. Im getting ready to go get another load for next year.

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        • gone under says:

          They barter ( Im in the area). There is a older couple about 70+ years old that grow the best Berries around. They will take firewood in trade. trade welding for lead cast “products”. And if they ran out of berries and needed firewood, Id give it to them and so would alot of other people. This aint “New York City”. As far as cutting firewood without gas equipment, it is alot of work but do-able. Chop it down with a axe or find a downed one. Tie it up to Wilber (my horse)and drag it home. saw it with a two man cross cut, which really can be handled by one person and is alot faster than it looks. Split it with a maul and next winter you will be set.

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    28. Had a Transformer blow on a pole down the road from me

      was out of power for 6 days (that time) only put a blip on my preps…been out way longer.

      still not fun if that were the end of getting power it would be a long year

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    29. Gadabout says:

      This has been said before and it bears repeating: solar garden lights.
      Bring them in at night and at least you have a night light in case you get up during the night.

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    30. Anon says:

      The Buffet Rule

      Salary of retired US Presidents . . . . . . . . . . . $180,000 FOR LIFE

      Salary of House/Senate members . . . . . . . . $174,000 FOR LIFE This is stupid

      Salary of Speaker of the House . . . . . . . . . . $223,500 FOR LIFE This is really stupid

      Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders . . . . . . . .$193,400 FOR LIFE Ditto last line

      Average Salary of a teacher . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $40,065

      Average Salary of a deployed Soldier . . . . . . . $38,000

      I think we found where the cuts should be made! If you agree pass it on, I just did.

      Warren Buffet, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:

      “I could end the deficit in 5 minutes,” he told CNBC. “You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.

      The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971 – before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.

      Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year or less to become the law of the land – all because of public pressure.

      Congressional Reform Act of 2013

      1. No Tenure / No Pension.

      A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they’re out of office.

      2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

      All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

      3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

      4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

      5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

      6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

      7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/13. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.

      Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

      THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        Agreed!
        Excellent post,
        Need to add that NOBODY should pay taxes till its passed!
        NOMI

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      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        Anon:

        Great post. Now I see why John Boehner cried those tears when he was promoted to Speaker of the House. A quarter of a million a year would make anyone cry for joy!

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      • The Old Coach says:

        I agree with the post, but can’t believe that it was said by Buffett. He’s one of the biggest suckers of the Federal teat there is.

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      • gone under says:

        @ Anon..Damn good post. You can bet it wont happen as they dont care what we want. Thats how we ended up with Obammiecare…nobody wanted it except them.

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    31. Old Vet says:

      Happy VETERNS DAY fellow brothers and sisters in Arms

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    32. 22Mission says:

      I spent very much of my childhood living with my great aunt .
      She was born in 1870.
      She cooked food on a green and white Warm Morning enamel wood cookstove .
      Water was drawn from her back porch well by turning a crank pulling up a chain .
      She used to say that she could cook about as fast with it as an electric stove .

      She had two places to plug in for electricity .
      One was her kitchen where the old refrigerator stood .
      Beside that refrigerator was her icebox, black tongs hanging .
      She often complained about the fact block ice was no longer delivered .

      The other plug in was in her living room .
      She had an am/fm radio and a lamp .
      She would turn off the lamp, light the oil lamp, and then say loudly :
      ‘Lectric is so dangerous . Burns people’s houses down all the time .
      I hate electricity!

      Everything in her house was from the late 1880′s,
      and I mean everything .

      My point being that it is perfectly possible to live well without any electricity .
      And I learned much spending most of my childhood there, since my mother was not able to keep me .

      Practice and prepare .
      Nothing like the real deal to find out both strength and weakness .
      I’m just an old woman now living alone .
      But I have no fears about not having electricity .
      Been there, done that, and got the tee shirt ..

      It’s the hoards of insane that worry me .
      But at this site at least, they can get some good education .

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      • thanks for sharing…..amazing story, loved it!!!!

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        • 22Mission says:

          You are very welcome Beth .

          My aunt also saved every bit of grease .
          In the spring she strained it through an old cotton pillowcase .
          Ran rainwater through a metal barrel of wood ashes .
          Cooked down the rainwater till a fresh egg floated .
          Slowly stirred in the clean grease .
          Cooked it a while and made lye soap .
          Sounds awful but it was so soft on my skin .

          And when there is no idiot box blaring away,
          you would be amazed at what you start noticing .
          Things like stars shining, incoming weather, and animal behavior .
          Yes, she worked hard .
          So did I.
          So for her husband .
          She never had any children, her uterus prolapsed at an early age .
          She lived to be 99.
          She was Creek Indian . She traded herbs and fixed people who had no
          money for doctors or medical care .
          And used to point at the woods and say there was a cure for everything ailing folks out there .
          I sure miss her .

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          • KY Mom says:

            22Mission,

            Your Aunt reminded me of this story about wash day.

            Wash Day

            Years ago a Kentucky grandmother gave a new bride the following recipe for washing clothes. It appears below just as it was written, and despite the spelling, has a bit of philosophy.

            This is an exact copy” as written and found in an old scrapbook (with spelling errors and all). Some of the younger people might have to ask a grandparent to explain this…

            Warshing Clothes

            1. Bilt fire in backyard to heat kettle of rain water.

            2. Set tubs so smoke wont blow in eyes if wind is pert.

            3. Shave one hole cake of lie soap in bilin water.

            4. Sort things, make 3 piles, 1 pile white, 1 pile colored, 1 pile work britches and rags.

            5. To make starch, stir flour in cool water to smooth, then thin down with bilin water.

            6. Take white things, rub dirty spots on board, scrub hard, and then bile. Rub colored, don’t bile, just rinch and starch.

            7. Take things out of kettle with broomstick handle, then rinch, and starch.

            8. Hang old rags on fence.

            9. Spread tea towels on grass.

            10. Pore rinch water in flower bed.

            11. Scrub porch with hot soapy water.

            12. Turn tubs upside down.

            13. Go put on clean dress, smooth hair with hair combs. Brew cup of tea, sit on a rock a spell, and count your blessings. We are so fortunate to have all that we have.

            *Give thanks for your blessings!

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            • 22Mission says:

              Ky Mom,
              you brought a Big Smile to my face with that post!
              just love that very kind of advice .

              Old times were hard .
              But counting blessings is something we all need to do daily regardless .

              Peace
              Love
              and always Light to you!

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      • Archivist says:

        My great aunt cooked with wood until she was past 90. Then the assistant she hired had to cook on it for her. She told me that the best thing about electricity was having a refrigerator. She like the refrigerator because it gave her a place to keep her eggs so they wouldn’t freeze in the winter.

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    33. Be informed says:

      @ KY Mom. I bet you have seen that commercial about the clean up specialists, “like it never even happened”. This type of false sense that no matter what happens, there will be immediate recover and all will be happy and people can go back to their dancing with stars little lives. Even if people have earthquake and flood insurance it doesn’t cover OTHER acts of God. Even IF someone spends mega dollars to insure every last possibility, it means absolutely nothing if the insurance company goes bankrupt or there is no insurance companies or much of anything else left. That insurnace company is not going to truck in your food and other supplies you need when everything looks like the Philippines or worse. People do have insurance in the Philippines and right now it ain’t going them much good.

      It is so frustrating to see so many that could have even 2 weeks worth of supplies that could prevent them from immediately being desperate and a burden on those generous neighbors, friends, or family that did prepare. It doesn’t take much for 2 weeks of back ups, yet these FOOLS don’t even do this much for security for their families. God help them, God help the truly idiotic, that is likely the ONLY one that will be able to help them.

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      • KY Mom says:

        Be informed,

        I agree.

        That is why everyone should be prepared and have some ‘food insurance’.

        I only added that information about standard home insurance policies NOT covering (anymore) damage from ‘earth movement’, as that something I recently found out about. I thought about you when I found out about this policy change. Could this change be do to the increase in earthquakes?

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        • The Old Coach says:

          Earthquake insurance has been an “option” for as long as there has been insurance. Just as windstorm is an option, flood insurance is an option, etc., etc.

          And there is no increase in earthquakes. There is an increase in earthquake damage, because people keep building (and building stupidly) in places where earthquakes are prone to occur.

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    34. Food for thought. If a huge surge fried the power grid to a major area, say NYC or DC and it was not coming back anytime soon, you know where they are going to turn. They will pull the transformers from none essential areas, like the mid west and south to get the power back up. Even if your area was not hit, the risk of them taking your power or at least reducing and rationing it is a very likely scenario. There is no way in hell they will let you have power, while a major city is in the dark for months.

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      • Archivist says:

        There was a test recently where the power company decided to replace one of the big transformers to see what was involved as far as logistics, time, and money. The first thing they discovered was that it was impossible because the transformer was so big it had to be hauled on a train. And the local line had been closed and the tracks pulled up.

        Half the train tracks in my area are gone.

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    35. O/T but question..an interesting question, you know how I like to get you thinking, or pissed off..lol

      Have any of you asked this question?

      It should be the question of the year!

      We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to “Run out of Money”

      How come we NEVER hear about welfare running out of money?

      and what’s interesting is the first group WORKED for their money, the second group didn’t!

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      • Farmer's Daughter says:

        VRF, you said it! I feel that if your on the take, like welfare, you should work for the money. Pick garbage from the side of the road and other crap jobs that we pay people way too much money to do!!!

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      • Archivist says:

        I just checked my last statement from SS. It has all my past earnings and payments into SS and tells me what I might expect to receive in benefits. I found that the little check I might get will use up all that I paid in after just three years.

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    36. slingshot says:

      My friend went to store to buy a camping lantern and found the prices have skyrocketed. Simple propane line or bottle type are up in the $60 range. The camping stove, white gas, two burner type are $100 to $135 made by Coleman. We have not hit the price of the DUAL FUEL type.

      Do some research on how to repair these items and then price the repair parts. Find some that need simple repair in the Swap/Flea markets and Garage Sales.

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      • I make simple oil lamps out of bottles..a wick and a stopper.. work great and I only pay about 3 to 4 dollars to make them.
        the oil is cheap too

        they also make great “tactical cocktails” too, if you catch my drift?

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        • Hoopster says:

          Another good light source is simply a can of Crisco or other named shortening. Put a wick in it(like in lamps) and it will burn for days.. No smells, no dangerous gases. Just a bright light and small source of heat..(The usual caution applies just as for candles.) You can even use a shoestring for wick if you do not have anything else. I keep one sitting in the same spot year round and if the power goes out it is the first thing I light.

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          • Works well…and to think Crisco was created as a lighting fuel and they got folks to eat it…amazing and we wonder why folks die of heart disease…anyhow its a good thing to stock for lanterns :)

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    37. Karen says:

      If you research NASA and the flip of the suns magnetic shield which they announced in August will take effect this month or in December there main concern is the rippling effect this will cause with earths weather. Spaceweather. Also the closer The comet ISON is to the earth more dramatic effects of the weather if you go to spaceweather you will see ISON is close enough you can use binoculars to see it. ISON is to be visible to the naked eye and 17 times brighter than the moon next month so prepare for some MAJOR earth weather changes folks up north a mini ice age a arctic blast this week accuweather.

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      • gone under says:

        I didnt red thumb you, but you need to research Ison using a credible astrophysicist, and not those You Tube fear porn nut cases. Ison does not come very close to the earth on both passes as it is on a different plane. It is fairly large at up to 4000 meters in diameter, so if it hit, that would be bad. Its mass is not big enough to have any cosmic interference. If it survives the pass around the sun, Maybe it could change course. If it hits the sun, so what, its mass is not even a flea on a mountain. If it breaks apart, I dont know. SpaceWeather.com is on my favorites and it says Nothing about Ison affecting Anything. Good pics though. I would be more concerned with one of those fireballs making a grand entry all the way to the ground.

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        • Socrates says:

          gone under-

          Actually Space Weather (and even NASA)do not always give details about certain aspects of our doings in space.

          The Sun is in fact, completing its polar shift (or flip) and it has a known cycle. There are 100′s of amateur (read non-biased)astronomers who have some pretty high end equipment and collect data and images all the time. One of my friends is just such an astrophysicist and his equipment alone costs more than the median mortgage in the U.S. This isn’t kid stuff and rivals a lot of universities and smaller observatories.

          ISON C2012 has proven to be a ‘strange duck’ in the fact that it appears to have a monopole tumble axis, meaning all of the comets surface has not been exposed to the solar wind or the Suns intense rays…yet. This is partly why it has taken so long for it to brighten. Also of note is the composition- not all comets are ‘dirty snowballs’ as thought previously. One of note right now has NASA and the whole space community bewildered as it is leaving a trail of 6 ‘rotating jets’ something that has not been seen before from any comet. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2492501/Is-comet-asteroid-Hubble-spots-tailed-rock-spinning-space–experts-left-dumbfounded.html

          Since many of us know we simply cannot know ‘everything’, that leaves the possibility of things we don’t understand easier approached. Case in point- There have been ALOT of Sun-diving comets as of late, and the Sun has recently increased it’s flare activity as well. Are they connected? Without good data to go by you and I simply have nothing to go on. It is postulated, however that the ‘electric comet’ or ‘plasma conductor’ theory may be true. This means that the closer a comet gets to a Sun, the more it interacts and disturbs the huge energy flux that flows around it.

          This is better illustrated with a giant Van DE Graf generator (think big orb of lightning/electricity) As conductive objects move near the orb, huge arcs of energy leap outwards towards the oncoming object. The theory is that comets/asteroids(no matter how small) can be a catalyst to interact with the Suns own magnetic/energetic field. The You Tube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Suspicious0bservers

          is a great resource for people who want to be in the know about pretty much any Earth, Sun or Space events.

          Open your mind…you may surprise yourself. ;)

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          • gone under says:

            I have been following Ison for a while and have also read about the comet with the six tails (on spaceweather). I dont have a friend who is a astrophysicist. I have followed the you tube blog from suspiciousObservers and a couple more (5 minutenews?). I just dont believe the “theory” that no matter how small the mass is that it will interact with the sun’s magnetic field. And Isons mass, compared to the sun, is like me pissing in the ocean. I havent seen evidence of sun divers having a immediate effect on the sun(within minutes, hours). Most of the Ison vids I have seen have been fear porn. I believe something could happen from uneven exposure to the sun and it could break up or change direction. There is just way too much Fear without facts being posted throughout the Net. Look at BIN for a example. 90% bullshit and 10% damn good info. If all my research fails to give me a example then I go to Revelation… which if I was smart, I would do that first and save a whole bunch of time. Thanks for your reply and please keep us updated as you have a creditable source of info.

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        • The Old Coach says:

          Thank you. If you hadn’t posted that I would have.

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    38. Ancient Echoes says:

      What an exciting time to be alive; to see all the changes and experience everything instead of just reading about it. All for one and one for all.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    39. RickInOregon says:

      Off topic:

      This past weekends homesteading project was sausage making. Last week I made for the first time some summer sausage, a small trial batch and it came out good. This weekend (actually started Thursday) I made a larger batch and just took it out of the smoker, it was in there a few hours too long, still good. I also made a 20 pound batch of italian sausage. The summer sausage seasoning came from a premix by “Smoke House”. I let it age in the refrigerator for a day longer than called out before stuffing the casings, the mix was equal amounts of beef and pork. The italian sausage was made from scratch, all pork. I have enough sausage for now so I think I’ll study up on making some salami that doesn’t need to be kept refrigerated. In the mean time I’ll start my first batch of cheddar cheese, I have three rounds of Romano cheese aging.

      Sausage, salami and cheese, SHTF comfort food.

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    40. thisTexan has had enough says:

      Would one of you SHTF posters remind me which Fema region is going to be affected by the Grid-X drill on November 11-13?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    41. Be informed says:

      Future Legal Defintion For Future Mega SHTF In The U.S. When does it become no longer criminal to loot for food and other necessary items to live after a huge catastrophe? In the Philippines people that go to find food, water, or other necessities are not arrested or charged with anything because they need this to live and not die. Sometimes your entire survival supplies even to those that were prepared can be buried under debris or under water, or lost to fire. Sometimes even the prepper/survivalist will need to scrounge and “loot” if they lose what they had stored up.

      I wonder if the U.S. under martial law state would arrest or execute someone right on the spot for taking a donut out of a collapse Dunkin Donuts shop after an earthquake or other some other calamity hit. I really wonder what type of orders BO or any president would give on “food looters”.

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      • It would probably depend on if they were EBT card holders or not..those types would be allowed, you or I, nope nada,, chains and a dark hole would be your new reality

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      • braveheart says:

        BI, i finally got through to the daily mail story you posted the link for. I had to get away from my computer for a brief period. This is one time i thought words would fail me. I’ve never seen destruction on this kind of scale from any natural disaster here, but I recognize that it can happen. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO TO THE LINK BI POSTED AND SEE THE PHOTOS AND VIDEOS FOR YOURSELVES. IF THIS DOESN’T CONVINCE PEOPLE TO WAKE UP AND START PREPPING, I DON’T KNOW WHAT ELSE CAN. braveheart

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      • gone under says:

        Donuts.. Thats the last place to loot. Full of cops guarding them.

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    42. maudy fricket says:

      Looks like the local squirrels got carried away when roasting their nuts.

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    43. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZf6_jK3Zs

      what you say can and WILL be used against you, even if we have to make it up, or push you to say it

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    44. Npgh says:

      Off topic too. Got the fruit trees in. Garlic planted. Tulips and Daffs planted (got to have some pretty things for me) Herbs out and drying. But I gotta learn how to make cheese!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    45. If you love your kid(s)…get them the hell out of this system ..now!

      this is just a taste of the bullshit they pull

      http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/schools-humiliating-kids-punish-parents-160100515.html

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    46. southbysouthwest says:

      We lived without electricity for 6 years (1996-2002) in southern Arizona. It is possible but not without water. We had a generator for the well. We lived 1/2 mile from the border, not at all ideal, but we learned a lot.

      The hottest it got inside the house was 104 degrees.

      Our kids were in grade school at the time and did their homework by oil burning lamp light. We had no TV.

      We had a propane refrigerator and a propane oven that worked without electricity. I just had to get on the floor and light it with a long match. We also had a wood burning cook stove and plenty of mesquite wood to burn in the winter.

      We learned so much from living off the grid. We live on the grid now. But we still remember how life was off the grid. It really was amazing. We finally left because the zombies crossing the border were becoming too numerous.

      And, I have learned so much from you all here. Thanks.

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    47. Pencrna says:

      My dear MIL text my husband this weekend to ask if we were ready for the nor’easter. He replied that yes we were, and “do you have enough food and water in the house for you and the dog?’ Nothing but silence. She’s already asked about using our genny this year. She has an old one of her brothers. Hubby has told her numerous times to go buy fuel hose and he’d tune it up. He and I are going to have a talk tonight about getting his liberal mom stocking up. Wish me luck. If you hear a very loud noise tonight it may be my head exploding.

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    48. canadagal says:

      Some of you guys & gals are sure well informed about science. Good for you & for me if I heed. Here on the retirement farm it was -20 C this am. Wood heater is keeping us fairly warm. All told we have 5 wood heaters & 1 propane high efficency furnace around our bldgs. I’m watching the space weather site. The minute there is a lg X I will be phoning the sons & family & telling them to get home asap or they will freeze to death. No back-up in the cities. Being farm raised they are fairly resilient but there is only so much you can do @ 30 below.

      I am so thankful that the Good Lord provided us with an awesome garden this year..far more than we needed so some was given away locally & a lot of extra is put away for family if the sun or economy do a cursplunk.

      We are lucky to live in a rural farming community as almost everyone grows at least some of their food. Some are definite preppers with a nose to world affairs & some just stockpile because that is what you do when you get 6 months of winter. Roads have greatly improved in the last 20 years so we are usually not home bound for more than a few days but everyone remembers when that was so. We all have bad roads in our back ground & plan accordingly. God bless you all & prepare like there is no tomorrow but hope for the best.

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    49. canadagal says:

      Some of you guys & gals are sure well informed about science. Good for you & for me if I heed. Here on the retirement farm it was -20 C this am. Wood heater is keeping us fairly warm. All told we have 5 wood heaters & 1 propane high efficency furnace around our bldgs. I’m watching the space weather site. The minute there is a lg X I will be phoning the sons & family & telling them to get home asap or they will freeze to death. No back-up in the cities. Being farm raised they are fairly resilient but there is only so much you can do @ 30 below.

      I am so thankful that the Good Lord provided us with an awesome garden this year..far more than we needed so some was given away locally & a lot of extra is put away for family if the sun or economy do a cursplunk.

      We are lucky to live in a rural farming community as almost everyone grows at least some of their food. Some are definite preppers with a nose to world affairs & some just stockpile because that is what you do when you get 6 months of winter. Roads have greatly improved in the last 20 years so we are usually not home bound for more than a few days but everyone remembers when that was so. We all have bad roads in our back ground & plan accordingly. God bless you all & prepare like there is no tomorrow but hope for the best.

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      • gone under says:

        Some folks have a outdoor wood Furnace in my area. Are those popular in Canada? kind of pricey though. I would have to make mine. Im south/east of Creston.

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        • MXLord327 says:

          Quite a few people here in Maine & New Hampshire have them, they are excellent. They can easily heat a normal sized house and provide hot water as well. The only downside is they are very expensive at $7 – $10k installed, and they smoke so much that many towns are banning them. The sister company to the company I work for sells and installs them, the Central Boiler brand. I wish I could afford one!

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    50. Fleendar the wise says:

      The MAIN question is??? WHY did we ever let it get to this point??!!

      The answer? BECAUSE, the elites WANTED this scenario to play out as it is.

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