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    UPDATE from SF PD: Dead Suspect Shot Himself!

    Mac Slavo
    July 19th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (194)
    Read by 689 people

    UPDATED: July 21, 2011 22:50 CST

    Due to the popularity of this issue in our comment area, and in the interest of truth, we present another (shocking) update to this story.

    The plot thickens:

    A police shooting that stirred community outcry and street protests took a stunning turn Thursday when investigators said they now believe a 19-year-old Washington parolee being sought for questioning in a Seattle murder fatally shot himself in the neck.

    “We believe that the fatal wound on Mr. Harding’s body was self-inflicted,” Biel said.

    John Sanchez, a criminalist at the San Francisco Crime Lab, said the .380-caliber bullet found in Harding’s head was not consistent with the.40-caliber guns issued to San Francisco police.

    “The bullet could not have been fired from any department-issued firearm,” Sanchez said.

    Medical personnel found an unfired .380-caliber bullet in Harding’s right jacket pocket, but the gun itself was not recovered, Biel said.

    “We want to take this opportunity to reach out to the community in locating the correct weapon,” Biel said. “We believe the weapon that we are looking for is a .380-caliber handgun.”

    A gun recovered by police late Saturday as part of the investigation was a .45-caliber pistol and could not have fired the fatal shot, police said.

    Source: CBS Sacramento
    Hat tip Mike

    UPDATED: July 20, 2011 12:00 CST

    The following video depicts the scene in the San Francisco shooting from a second angle, in which it is claimed that the gun can be seen laying on the ground before it is picked up by an individual wearing a hoody.

    Link to KTVU news report: http://www.ktvu.com/news/28573517/detail.html

    Raw Cell Phone video:

    Was it a gun?

    Hat tip Slippery

    ORIGINAL STORY POSTED JULY 19, 2011:

    The following graphic video was taken in San Francisco on July 16, 2011, where a man was reportedly shot at by police six to ten times when he tried to flee after failing to produce a train ticket. According to reports, he was shot in the back while running from police. In the video, recorded by an onlooker, the 19 year old man struggles for life for a few moments and then his body lay motionless on the pavement as police hold the crowd at bay. Initial reports provided by Jack Blood’s Dead Line Live via Domas Jefferson indicate the man was unarmed, but SF PD reported the following day that a silver handgun was found. Witnesses can be heard asking police where the gun is, and no such weapon is apparently visible in the video (though the SF Gate account below indicates there is a weapon visible).

    No video of the actual encounter has been made available yet (if it even exists), but the following video is taken seconds after the shooting:

    *Warning: Graphic Video; Language*

    (Original Video posted at Godlike Productions)

    UPDATE July 19, 2011 @ 11:15AM: Two Different Accounts Emerge (source)

    The 19 year old man has been identified as Kenneth Wade Harding, a recent parolee who was being sought by police as a person of interest in a shooting that killed one and wounded three last week.

    Two different accounts of the incident have emerged.

    Police officials said at a news conference that ShotSpotter, a gunshot detection and location system, had recorded 10 shots fired over the course of six seconds Saturday as police chased 19-year-old Kenneth Wade Harding near Third Street in the Bayview – one shot at first, followed 1.9 seconds later by nine in rapid succession.

    The technology cannot determine which shots came from which guns. But Police Chief Greg Suhr said witnesses have told investigators that they saw the muzzle flash from a gun that Harding was shooting from under his arm.

    …Harding was stopped at 4:44 p.m. Saturday by two uniformed officers who, while patrolling Third Street between Oakdale and Palou avenues, were conducting a fare inspection on a Muni light-rail platform.

    When the officers tried to talk to Harding, he ran into Mendell Plaza and fired a gun from under his arm, police said.

    The officers fired back, hitting Harding, police said.

    Bayview resident Henry Taylor said that he had seen the incident and that Harding had not shot at police.

    “What I saw was a young man running for his life,” Taylor said.

    Some witnesses say they saw no gun, while police maintain that Harding fired at them:

    An amateur video has surfaced online showing the mortally wounded Harding and what appears to be a gun on the pavement nearby. The weapon disappeared from the scene, but Suhr said informants had provided information that led to a parolee’s house in the Bayview, where police found a .45-caliber pistol that they think was Harding’s.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 689 people
    Date: July 19th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    194 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. HunterAlpha1 says:

      “The wicked flee when no man persueth, but the righteous are bold as a lion”

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. stan says:

      Get ready for the PO-lice to stop you, drag you out of your car, take your money, and beat the shit out of you.

      Think it can’t happen? It happens every day.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. Paul Revere says:

      More Hope & Change. Obama’s military is killing innocent Muslim women and children in the Middle East….. and his para-militaries (police) are killing U.S. citizens at home.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    4. VRF says:

      I hope people are paying attention..

      when do we fight back?..how many more will need to be killed? illegally jailed? railroaded?

      whens the back lash going to start.?

      these “enforcers” are making their bed…when do we tuck them in?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    5. old man says:

      HE HAD A GUN. GET YOUR FACTS BEFORE TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH.

      HE HAD A GUN HE HAD A GUN

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • prove it! Didn’t see one in the video first off and secondly……he was shot in the BACK!! I repeat in the BACK!!!!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • over TRAIN FARE!!!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Curtis says:

          He was shot in the back because as he was running away, he slipped his handgun under his opposite arm and fired at the police.

          I am usually pretty hard on copdom. But in this case, whether it was for lousy fare or not, the cops have a right to shoot back when someone shoots at them and has no righteous legimate reason too.

          Someone also did a very good video blow up of that gun somewhere, I can’t remember where … and it was a gun. I am sure that surveillance camera’s somewhere caught it all on tape and will eventually be released.

          And I have to tell you, when TSHTF, some of you people are DOOMED! For instance:

          Evilzz says:
          July 19, 2011 at 6:18 pm
          How do you fire a gun from under your arm?????

          And MikeH, if you were surrounded by a hostile crowd such as that … would you be thinking about your … security?

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Evilzz says:

            maybe you will have a lot of crow on your plate upon further review and you will have much worse if you come to my redneck backwoods looking for me when TSHTF mr city slicker Curtis. I will let you lay their and bleed to death with no aid as they did.. that is/was the problem in all of it Dipshit! but I bet you condone no compassion either troll.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Sharp Tool says:

            Nobody is looking for you Evil. You’re the same dumb pilgrim that I been hearin’ for twenty days, and smellin’ for three!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • MikeH says:

        You were there and saw it or are you parroting the official story? I strongly suspect the latter to be true. Even the official story stinks. They found a gun at his house? He was not arrested there and could not have used it to fire at the police.

        Listen, I count at least 4 pigs standing guard at the start of the vid. 2 with guns drawn covering a still moving gunshot victim. You expect to pass off that someone removed the gun from the scene and took it back to his house? Preposterous.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Curtis says:

          City slicker Ms. Evilzz? Not hardly. Anyhow, considering the crowd that gathered around, if I had just shot the guy myself, I wouldn’t turn my back on them either. As far as that gun that they found at the house … they found a gun at the house. It doesn’t mean that it was the gun laying on the ground before that thug picked it up and ran off with it.

          And Ms. Evilzz, who said anything about hunting your redneck self down? Oh, that’s right, you did. I have no plans on hunting down your gnarly, stinky, un-douched self.

          All one has to do is get a good photo editor, blow up a still of that gun, and it becomes obvious it is a chrome gun. In fact, it looks like a 380.

          I realize that a lot of you are in hysteria over a government induced TSHTF and cops will more than likely play a big part in it. But at this moment, I am going to call it as I see it. And if this guy shot at the cops, the cops had every right to shoot back. It isn’t like TSHTF already and they were rounding him up to put him in the gulag.

          And I’ll be perfectly blunt here, while I believe that a lot of black folks get taken advantage of by cops, I also realize that those same … negro’s … will lie out of their arse even if it is a righteous one by the cops. It is what it is.

          Hell, when TSHTF, some of you will be shooting those same negro’s in this video.

          Deal with it.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • How do you fire a gun from under your arm?????
        is that like someone getting arrested cause the cops say, they seen him smoking pot through binoculars????? I have never figured that one out either.

        how do you smoke pot through binoculars?????
        How do you fire a gun from under your arm????? ouch.

        only way I can picture someone even shooting a gun from under their arm is if they where already started facing away and already started to running and popped one off in any direction as a ‘quick take cover’ instead of chasing me.
        And maybe on the binoculars if it was really a fancy bong but why then say binoculars?????
        And why say he shot at them when it was a cover shot warning?????

        if they already picked up the gun, the cops or who ever, then where are the spent casing’s?????
        it appears to be a contaminated crime scene (I learned that on csi)

        to many holes in this story, I cant even fill my bong with this. it wont hold any water.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Big J Enterprises says:

          Actually, you can train on getting off the x and shooting while running, backwards, etc. One can shoot backwards with accuracy, believe it.

          If an armed intruder is on your property, in your house, and has his/her back to you, and refuses to drop weapon? Shoot them.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Evilzz says:

            I hear ya Big J, it is possible. my big problem is what was all done AFTER the shooting took place with him already down and hands down. and then he lays there drowning in blood while they waited for him to die..
            the first cop to touch him near the end simply checked for pulse.

            in most any other justified shooting they would have had their knee on the back of his head 1,2,3 after he hit the ground and they seen there is no gun in hand or to be seen.

            why even start to chase someone for something as simple as little train fare ticket?
            cause it pissed them off is why!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Ben Dover says:

          It appears that a suspect’s/victim’s weapon is as hard to produce as a birth certificate.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Duh!! says:

        Shot in the back means running away. How stupid are you?

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • pgh2160 says:

        If he had a gun the video will prove he did. If he didn’t have a gun the police will prove he did.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    6. PO'dpatriot says:

      Didn’t take long for the first AR to come out. Just so you know what your up against. The spark will soon be lit and this whole thing will flash.
      “Broken Arrow, I repeat, Broken Arrow!”
      “My god, there’s no hiding it now.”

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • I noticed that too and thought the same thing.

        I am liking the idea of a .50 caliber or a .338 or both :-)

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • MadMarkie says:

          In my opinion the ‘action’ isn’t going to be out there at 400 – 500 yards ….. it will be at 40 – 50 feet …. if that.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Odd Questioner says:

          Re: big guns…

          I have a .338. It’s pretty hard to find ammunition for it unless you look. Don’t even want to know how hard it would be to find .50 rounds outside of a gun show…

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    7. Just me says:

      one thing for sure, those cops never missed a donut shop, I’d like to see what their guts look like in a couple yrs, we had a fat cop who pulled the steering wheel off the car pulling himself in the car.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    8. Jim says:

      Someone snatched up the gun and hid it to make it look like the cops just shot this guy for not having a train ticket. People get real! Why did the guy keep saying “where’s the gun”? because his thug buddies snatched the gun up in the confusion to make the cops look bad that’s why.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • if they that close to be able to grab a hot gun then you mean the cops where blind then too and couldnt see who grabbed it. and ya they quit grabbed the spent casings burning their fingers as well. funny funny funny phoney

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        • Lohkai says:

          People on the street, cops who aren’t athletes after a 19-y.o. kid who’s clearly in good physical shape, shot in the back. Kid was probably well out front when he first fell – gun probably bounced ahead of him. Lot of blood, so he’s been down several seconds probably before police even made the scene. It is possible (and likely) that someone in the area snatched up the gun. Hey, not a rich neighborhood. In a recession, something to sell is something to sell. It is possible it walked off, but if so, someone was really on their toes as an opportunist.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Evilzz says:

            Lohkai, no disrespect or anything but,
            please don’t make me laugh..lol

            First, lets not forget, for officers to shoot someone with a couple of pistols, they must have full view of them, and they are suppose to know for certain they can make the shot. if not, they themselves are just as much of a danger to innocent bystanders as the perp was to the officers.

            if some street person was close enough to grab the gun that went flying when he went down, then they would have had to have NO FEAR of catching any bullets that where coming that way.. in what you say, they would have just watched someone get capped 20 feet from then and still stand there to then try and think ‘get gun’ while cops are still running that way with guns drawn..OMG if they see you pick it up you ARE going down the same way..

            I think not, gun shots go off and people scatter my friend.. they do come back fairly quickly but not while guns are drawn. (about the same time it takes for backup officers to arrive)

            Lohkai, I know you are trying to give benefit of doubt for the police and that is fine. I just think, if there was a gun that was took by another, I do think it would have happened in another type of fashion. I could be wrong and you could be rite, but I wouldn’t bet on it if I was you :)
            Have a nice day!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Lohkai says:

            I was just pointing out one of many, many possibilities. Sorry, it’s just the scientist in me. Better to consider all possibilities until they are eliminated by the evidence, one by one, than to rule out particular possibilites just because they are unlikely or, heaven forbid, inconvenient. Now, the claim is he shot himself. Considering he was insitutionalized prior to age 19, we may also consider his perspective of facing more certain jailtime when he has known little else in his comparative youth. The only ones who know for certain what went down were those who were there and/or involved, be it for good or ill. What should be of most concern, IMHO, is the complete “chill” of the scene – the detachment, the deliberate uncaring, the entertainment – no one was immune. People show more humanity when somebody runs over a squirrel. I would’ve thought it good riddance if the video had ended with a sudden meteor impact.

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    9. Michelle the Wookie says:

      Anyone want to take the fools stance and argue that police are not out of control?

      “The wicked flee when no man persueth, but the righteous are bold as a lion”

      Look, shooting anyone in the back is wrong. Any “civilian” that were to do this would be facing a life sentence.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    10. Highlander says:

      The “man” pulled a gun and was shot. He was wanted for the murder in Washington State (I think) of a pregnant woman. The gun was recovered later with the help of the locals after it was discovered that some gang-bangers had distracted police and grabbed it. When the police do the wrong thing we should make it loud and clear that we do not approve, when they do the right thing we should make that loud and clear. They have eliminated a POS leech on society and saved taxpayers money. By the way, the “man” was released on parole recently.

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    11. VRF says:

      This is how the elite handle things..
      http://news.yahoo.com/uk-phone-hacking-whistleblower-found-dead-reports-202829372.html

      they kill you

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    12. manos says:

      Pray for him, pray for his poor soul.
      No man on earth deserves to die like this.
      Even dogs have better death.
      Dear God and our Lord.
      Don’t you see? Can’t you see?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    13. CitizenPain says:

      Once again we see that Guns don’t Kill Citizens – Cops with Guns Kill Citizens. Maybe the Mayor changed the Rules – “No Death Penalty for Murderers or Rapist, but shoot any Mutha Fuka that Fuks with my Revenue Stream.”

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    14. Man Up says:

      Shot dead by our protectors for not having a train ticket?
      Since the majority of this country is considered obese, I suppose the new rule for those who protect and serve is “if you can’t out run them, shoot them” or just shoot ‘em anyway!

      It’s getting crazy out here, get ready!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    15. Abuserforu says:

      The police brutality is just yet another sign of things to come .since the man that was shot was black ,they will use officer safety as justification and this will be yet another justifiable shooting .but notice one thign here folks in the video .The crowds get bigger and the police were slowly backing up .You see,In a SHTF scenerio ,The police would be targets ast he crowds gather in mass .When these crowds have weapons then its a game changer ! Vahalla !!!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Greydog says:

        He was wanted for the murder in Washington

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Ben Dover says:

          Speedy trial.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Cyber_Samurai says:

          Woooah, there. The article said he was wanted for QUESTIONING AS A PERSON OF INTEREST. Did I miss something? It didn’t say he was wanted for murder.

          Still, this is a bad sitch. Totally divided. If he’s guilty, then, justice has been served and taxpayers saved a few bucks. If he’s innocent, then the shooter will stand before God Almighty, and I promise you, he’ll regret his action for ALL eternity!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    16. Goldenfoxx says:

      This is so wrong. One man takes a free ride, while a gang of them steals, robs, and beats people up and nothing happens to them. This guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not sure if this happened in the Hunter’s Point area of San Francisco, but if it did, I am sure some riots will come out of this. They can burn that f*ucking, gay, illegal alien infested cesspool down for all I care. At one time San Francisco was a nice place to visit–not any more. The liberals have destroyed it.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    17. Some day the beasts will pay. I envision a day when the crowd just opens up on these murderers. How can you shoot a man in the back and justify it? …and have all your fellow cops justify it? Of course they “found a gun”. Its long been known that crooked cops keep a confiscated gun around to throw out at the scene so that they can claim there was danger and the shooting or beating or whatever was justified.

      The biggest problem is this: When the cops are right, they claim to be right. When the cops are wrong, they claim to be right. They never give up and they never give in because they are backed by a legalized monopoly of violence.

      There are good cops out there but they are soon corrupted because they stick together and they are coerced into defending and protecting the bad apples.

      Soon, we’ll reject these corporate rules and we’ll return to a lawful society. There will be a little chaos in the middle of it but in the end it will get much better.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • manos says:

        They hunt down a poor devil like he was the ultimate criminal.
        From the other side drug dealers are free to sell their merchandise.
        Illegals enter the country by the hundreds, shoot people, take jobs, hide taxable income.
        Robbers empty houses and kill the owners.
        Rapists, child abusers, crooks, criminals, and whatever, are free to whatever they like.
        Somewhere, somehow, we took the wrong turn.
        How are we going to get out of this nightmare, this is a rhetorical question.
        Surely by killing some human being because he had no ticket, it will not take us closer to Christ.

        Be safe NetRanger.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • greydog says:

        He had a gun

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        • doubletap says:

          He had a gun.

          “Jose Guerena, 26, was killed in a hail of bullets from the SWAT team, which broke down the door to his home on May 5 while trying to serve a search warrant as part of a home invasion probe.”http://abcnews.go.com/US/arizona-swat-team-cleared-marines-killing/story?id=13842029

          They never found any drugs in his home or in his body following an autopsy. But he had a gun. So kill him, right, greydog?

          She had a gun.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Qx0cTze0M

          They should of shot her, right greydog?

          We should bend over and obey the police, after all, they are wearing state sanctioned costumes. Like these brave hero’s in costumes.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQW6xLECUU

          Do you own a gun greydog? Maybe you should be shot, following your brilliant line of logic and reasoning.

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          • Anonymous says:

            Evidently, just because you are a parolee who illegally left Washington state after shooting and killing a pregnant mother and her unborn child, and was involved in pimping a 14 year old girl, and shot at two police officers before being shot, this makes you a hero to some.

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          • Lohkai says:

            Anon, chances are the police did not even know who he was until after he was dead – this was a chase over a train ticket. Regardless, rule of law is rule of law, not rule of suspicion. When we bypass due process and don’t require evidence presented before a jury of our peers, we make sanctioned judge, jury and executioner of law enforcement. And it could be anyone next.

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        • where did you read that???? what I read said,
          wanted by police as a ‘person of interest’ in a shooting that killed one and wounded three

          person of interest does not mean murderer.

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      • L.A. Jimbo says:

        Thanks for the intelligent and spiritual insights.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    18. Jim says:

      The cops were fired on by this guy and in the confusion one of his buddies hid the gun so they could say the cops are murderers. In all of the cases like this, why do you think we only have the last half of the video?

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    19. AZ Ready says:

      I’ll wait to comment until all the facts are revealed.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Beefcake says:

        I agree, for all we know this guy coulda emptied a magazine at a cop just before this video was taken.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • doesn’t matter, what does matter is that no cop was injured (and even if they were, doesn’t justify murder before a trial) and that the victim was shot IN THE BACK!!

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          • 21ravens says:

            Victim… hmmm. Who was wanted for murder? Who ran from the cops? Who allegedly shot at them? Sounds more like a perp than a victim. If he robbed, shot at or killed you, BJ, then that would define you correctly as a victim. This wasn’t just some black kid that was riding the train for free and got shot by a cop because he was too tired or lazy to chase down a fleeing kid. No cop just shoots somebody for fun. Wake up – this looks and smells like we are all being manipulated for ratings. I’m waiting to judge until all the facts are known, and yes, I’ll give the cops the benefit of the doubt.

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      • DRD5508 says:

        Agree, also one fact still remains, the man ran. If he hadn’t run, would he still be alive?

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      • Moco says:

        What facts?
        Cops need to be carrying personal cams. These disadvantaged negros all have better cell phones than I have.
        A perfect fucking plan for the elites to let us take each other out, then send in the military to kill and clean up the mess. This is going to make the 60′s riots seem tame. Lock and load, peeps.

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    20. Slippery says:

      Wow….a lot are quick to judge the cops here. If they messed up it will come out and there will be consequences.

      Remember one thing, the cops are not part of the “elite”. There is no conspiracy among them to keep the common man down and enforce big brother on anyone. Are they a tool and are they used by “elites”? Maybe, if so they are asleep and don’t realize it as yet.

      Cops are just like you. They for the most part hate Big Government and everything it has done to destroy this country. When the SHTF far more will take the side of the Oath Keepers than not. At least I hope so.

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      • MikeH says:

        You are living in a dreamworld. Rarely are pigs ever taken to task for their terrible shootings. They have their union lawyers to normalize the stories before they are ever interviewed.

        If they were still covering an armed suspect at that range and someone else tried to pickup the gun there would be more bodies. The explanation that the gun was moved by a bystander is a creation out of whole cloth.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        I would expect some to ditch their uniforms and claim to ber unemployed.

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    21. Bloodyfellow says:

      Indigenous Native American Prophecy

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cylfQtkDg&feature=related

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    22. Slippery says:

      This witness tells a different story. And surprise surprise the “Innocent man just trying to catch a free ride” is a person of interest in a murder in Washington. Oh well let’s not ruin the narrative, cops are killers.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooYJVFkNPuc

      Oh and it looks like he did have a gun of his own.

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      • james s says:

        what is rong with you i no very nice cops how have put people in the place they belong. ps you are only slipery when it coms to geting a girl frend fallyer

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    23. That Guy says:

      Man, sigh …. :( In this country you are NOT allowed to shoot people who are NOT putting you in danger. If someone running away for you, they are NOT putting you in danger. YOU CAN NOT SHOOT TEHM!!!!

      If someone breaks into your house… and you wake up… and they run out your door… and you shoot them… you are going to prison.

      ONE LAW FOR ALL… INCLUDING POLICE

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      • james s says:

        they were put in danger the man hade a gun that the crawed did not see and wy whold he make sutch a bumb ass diseshen when he whold probobly only get comunity surves

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      • Moco says:

        Not in texas. Now, they are liberal about shootin.
        Dem libs are causing issues.
        Yes it should be a rule of law, but its more like the law of our rulers.
        Having money and power is just not enuff. They crave the blood now.

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    24. That Guy says:

      YOU KNOW WHAT??? FK THE POLICE!!! Tell me why it took 6 months for these scumbag Kansas City Kansas police officers to be indicted??

      Thses fking cops better go away FOR A LONG TIME!!!! …but I bet they wont….. they were trusted ad they stole from the people they were trrusted to protect… FK THEM!!!…. they are devils… they are as bad as it gets on Earth.

      read this… http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/18/3020901/three-kck-police-officers-indicted.html

      For a year, three Kansas City, Kan., police officers in an elite unit conspired to steal money, video games and other property, according to federal grand jury indictments unsealed today.

      The three were among four officers arrested in January and suspended without pay following an FBI sting operation.

      Jeffrey M. Bell, 33, Darryl M. Forrest, 31, and Dustin Sillings, 33, took money and goods from the FBI in the sting operation and from Tawana Webster and other unknown victims, the indictment states.

      All three men pleaded not guilty today in first court appearances in federal court in Kansas City, Kan., and left without comment.

      At a press conference today, Barry Grissom, U.S. attorney for Kansas, asked anyone who had items stolen during a home search to call Kansas City, Kan., police at 913-573-6370.

      Grissom also praised Police Chief Rick Armstrong for starting an investigation that Armstrong has said followed a citizen complaint last year.

      Mayor Joe Reardon issued a release also praising Armstrong.

      “I applaud his decision to launch the internal investigation that led to these indictments,” Reardon said. “My expectation is that we continue to have a police department that is responsible to its citizens and fights crime with the utmost integrity.”

      Among other allegations in the indictments:

      The highly trained and heavily armed officers were part of SCORE, the Selective Crime Occurrence Reduction Enforcement Unit, and conspired to steal while executing search warrants.

      On July 7, 2010, while serving a search warrant at Webster’s home, they stole a Play Station portable and a camcorder.

      From January 2010 to Jan. 4, 2011, Sillings served five search warrants and stole at least six Play Station video games.

      During the Jan. 4 sting, Bell stole a Nintendo game player; Forrest stole a video game, an Apple iPod and $300, and Sillings stole $340.

      If convicted of conspiracy, each of the three faces up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

      They also are charged with theft of government property and depriving a citizen of her rights, which are misdemeanors.

      The three officers still are suspended. Police did not give the status of the fourth officer, who was not indicted.

      =============================================
      They were guilty in the sting operation back in January…. why wait 6 months to charge these pieces of sht?.. and waiting until NOW asking for the public’s help in otehr cases??… this is so fkd up

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      • james s says:

        what are they talking about they were doing there jobs and pertecting them selves i hope you can reed becous there was an ardickel riyet under the video no what your talking about befor you talk smart one and i hope that shot up basterd rots in hell for trying the kill cops

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        • That Guy says:

          james s,
          You are too stupid to understand simple spelling. I may be the typo king… but I can spell.. I just cant type… you, on the other hand, can not even spell… in other words… STFU you ignorant puke.

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          • james s says:

            so what if i cant spell that good at least i have a life. at least i can read you dont even now the story right the man had a gun. and i am the ignorent punk you cant even spell punk right you probably only got a job at a fast food resteront. and i have the balls to say bad words you ass hole.

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    25. pat says:

      Before judging, read another account of the incident: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/19/MN0H1KBQDA.DTL

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    26. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      Heck, we’ve got police arresting people for dancing at the Jefferson Memorial! So that makes this no surprise.

      But, there has to be more to the story. Seems a bit odd.

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    27. justin says:

      this whole country is a tinder box waiting to go up. if one beer bottle would have been thrown, the sound of it breaking would have shattered the relative peace, the cops with the rifles would have just started shooting at everyone, and the size and speed at which the crowd grew, tells me that people know that something is wrong and it could go up at any minute, once it starts, i dont think there is anything in place to stop it, and even if there were the budget cuts have surely shut that down too…the whole country is a tinder box…..

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    28. I really have no opinion because at the end of the day, neither side in this situation can be fully trusted. Both sides have a shady history so who knows where the real truth lies. If the guy truly shot at the police first then they did the right thing. I’m sorry, but if a guy shot at me and I took him down, my first instinct isn’t to go rush to his aid. But I’m not going to be like the mob surrounding them and make the automatic assumption that the police were in the wrong after watching two minutes of video after the incident occurred.

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    29. NAVY91 says:

      It doesn’t matter whether there is more to the story or not. You cannot justify shooting someone in the back while they are running away from you… period! By the way, I am a white male. So don’t even bring up the race card. What they did was wrong, no matter how you look at it!

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      • So let’s assume for a second (and I stress assume) that the facts of the case are correct. Guy fires at police, then turns and runs still carrying the pistol. So what is the correct course of action here? He’s no longer a deadly threat just because he is running away? IMO, if these are truly the facts, then the police were justified to use deadly force. A citizen with a concealed carry permit would not have been, but the police were.

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        • SmokyMtnLady says:

          Come on,let’s face it…he was a gang banger wanted for a murder in another state…and that’s for a crime the police know about…. his gang banger “friends” picked up the gun to make him look innocent…so you KNOW he was running and shooting all at the same time…it’s a “talent” gang bangers have…well, I say…better him dead then me or one of my family members….he was a leech on society and a criminal…I have no hard feelings about the police shooting this scum…he obviously had no worried about killing an innocent bystander, did he?

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          • where do you get wanted for murder when the news article says,
            a recent parolee who was being sought by police as a ‘person of interest’ in a shooting that killed one and wounded three.

            did you notice them keywords – person of interest?????
            to you that makes him wanted for murder?????

            a person of interest can merely mean as a ‘witness’ or thought to maybe have seen it all. the list is endless on what the interest might be.

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    30. Nothing like jumping on the cops before all the facts are out. This scum bag was a felon. A pistol was found at the scene. He shot at cops while he was fleeing. One less scumbag on the streets.

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      • MikeH says:

        You have convinced me with your impassioned reason. I would feel so very much safer if the cops just gunned down ever convicted or suspected felon they come across.

        A pistol WAS NOT found at the scene and there is nothing but the word of the cops and an eyewitness that he was armed. Since there are witnesses that say he was unarmed it would be end up being inconclusive at best. There was no discussion of a spent case found or any other evidence that he shot. On balance I do not believe the cops here.

        Let’s try reason here. I have seen the immediate aftermath of a real shooting where the suspect fired and was killed by the police. There were no bystanders yelling in the face of cops with guns drawn asking where the suspect’s gun was.

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    31. Dr. Prepper sez says:

      is it really getting so bad with blacks on the west coast that the PO Po are having to shoot them to get compliance??

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    32. Dr. Prepper sez says:

      To TPTB a single person that gets in the way by accident or by choice, their life-story, their hopes and dreams, their sense of self-worth and dignity, their responsibilities and their family……are nothing but a problem to be solved; a smear to be rubbed out by the minions who make their money blindly serving the mandarins of the state.

      DOn’t believe me? Try suing a corporation for defamation….hope to God you’re never accused of a capital crime by a DA who needs a high-profile conviction….

      America is finished until it sinks to the bottom and bounces back up to the surface.

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    33. greydog says:

      The guy had a gun. This story is false

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    34. Plain Old American says:

      There was a story about this on the local TV network website. They said “a person of interest” in the shooting of four people in south Seattle was shot & killed by police in California. According to the story he took off running and he turned and fired at the cops.

      I hope there are witnesses to this so the truth comes out.

      If a cop starts yelling “stop resisting” you just know your gonna get a beat down. If he’s feeling lazy he’ll just shoot you.

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    35. Hmmm says:

      supposedly the guy had a gun and was wanted for a murder in washington.

      Now who knows if thats true or not. They can say anything- and all we have is a video clip that provides no information. who knows if the vid was edited or not

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    36. I won’t tell you what my idea of poetic justice would of been here….use your imagination! I will say that the closest thing to our justice though would of been for the crowd to rush the police, disarm them, give them the beating of their life and then handcuff them and place them under citizens arrest. I’ve been shot in the back 13 months ago, the street punk thug criminal low life that shot me was no different then these Corp officers in uniform

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    37. Glad to see everyone in here defending a guy wanted for shooting a pregnant woman who fired on the cops as he ran away.

      You people are shortsighted little lemmings who will do anything to make any story fit your silly little worldview.

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      • I dont care what he is guilty of, we are supposed to be a country of laws that goes by a justice system. Shooting him in the back is wrong, no matter what he did or didn’t do

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        • SmokyMtnLady says:

          So if he’s wildly shooting as he’s running the police are just supposed to chase him, dodging bullets the whole time, waiting for him to turn around?? Oh please!!!

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          • if and butts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a very merry Christmas.

            Produce the evidence that he was doing as you say he was doing and I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong.

            Your way smarter a woman to reaching and grabbing at ridiculous hypotheticals like that..c’mon smknmynlady

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          • MikeH says:

            No gun was found at the scene, ergo he was not firing wildly. Please make the effort to read between the lines of the official story.

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          • SmokyMtnLady says:

            Thank you, BJ, I TRY to be smarter…some days, lol…I’m just saying that I don’t think all the facts are out yet…so maybe we should all wait and see…my best friend is a Tampa cop and I know what she goes through every day…so I tend to get a little defensive when it comes to peeps judging cops…she IS a great person…doing a difficult job… :)

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          • Lohkai says:

            I know good cops. I’ve encountered bad cops. It is a crappy, thankless job that I personally wouldn’t want to have, but that is no excuse for doing it poorly. This whole comment thread is operating entirely on assumptions coming from and going in every direction. The truth will out in the end. Perhaps, we should all exercise the same patience for and want of that truth that we would hope to see from law enforcement officers in the field. Hey, I can dream, can’t I? But, until that’s the case, it’s all pretty much the pot calling the kettle.

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    38. anonymous says:

      So he buy a ticket…

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    39. VRF says:

      Interesting development

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    40. dis is da truf says:

      The damned cops probably “found” a gun after the fact, and said that the guy had that gun, when in fact he probably never had any such gun.

      Shot in the back? The cop who shot this guy is a criminal, most likely (if the guy did NOT point a gun at him). And just to think that in a recent court case the pharmacist who shot to death an armed robber that was robbing his store got sentenced to LIFE IN PRISON. The judges are crooks, the lawyers are crooks, the cops are crooks. They have hijacked our justice system.

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    41. MikeH says:

      I have been lurking here for some time and have generally been happy with the thoughtfulness of the replies. This story has brought out the nutters that appear to be stuck on the thought that the police are there to “protect and.serve”. Folks, that vision of Mayberry sailed out a long time ago. Sheriff Andy has long ago passed away and been replaced by Barney the deputy that should only be allowed to carry a single bullet in his shirt pocket but in stead is armed to the teeth.

      Read the source stories and attempt to see the facts. There was not a gun recovered at the scene. The police attempted no aid on a dying man nor would they allow anyone close enough to render aid. (This puts some holes in the story that a gun he used was wisked away by another person.). He was not wanted for murder according to the story but was suspect in a drive-by that hit an innocent bystander. The story does not make him out to be a saint but I would suggest that he did NOT deserve to be summarily executed for fleeing.

      The folks that have jumped to the defense of the police deserve the protection under their aegis. I caution though that this is the epitomie of a double edged sword and that these same police could easily separate you from your preps if they were of a mind to take it from you. Be comforted though that someone here will surely come to the defense of the police that killed you for surely you were doing something that you shouldn’t and the brave officer had to make a tough, split-second decision. You have been warned, please conduct yourself accordingly.

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      • Jim says:

        Check your facts. You do not know what you are talking about. The guy had a gun and it was hidden by one of his banger boyz. That is why we only have the last part of the video and this is one of the reasons that SF is becoming a cesspool. You who think the cops saw a guy not pay for his train fare and shot him know it’s not the truth but you use anything to try and make the cops look bad.

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        • lets test your theory,
          when a law man comes walking in your direction one day, and he is looking directly at you, and you both make eye contact, try this one time.

          turn and quick run the other way as fast as you can. please report back your results to us on what takes place.

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        • MikeH says:

          I suggest that if you ever run across a shooting try to take a weapon from the ground and please tell me how you did with the cops.

          “the guy had a gun…hidden by banger boys”. And what evidence do you have to support that? Please tell me how you came to that conclusion without evidence?

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    42. Dan says:

      The fact of the matter is this guy obviously made some poor choices in life which lead him to this end.

      I don’t like this story for the simple fact that it seems the ACTUAL TRUTH may never come to light. Looks like lots of people are quick to judge, on both sides though. It disgusts me, honestly.

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      • james s says:

        you are a very smart person dan. i cant even belive some of the things people say about the vidio and i put up this story becous the cops were probobly judged for shooting him when it was for self defence i like your sides of the stor keep righting dan

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    43. james s says:

      what is with mony theys days my dad sed that a peny in his day was worth a corder now mony is very hard to get becouse of lack of jobs i feel bad for the soldiers how are just cuming back from fighting for ther home now the solders cant get jobs that easy any more i wish them luck

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    44. james s says:

      many people may think that what i say is rong you can belive what you want to belive you can say what you want but you will not chang what i think

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    45. james s says:

      one day i went to school and whent to 6 period class i saw tow kids fighting and saying evry bad word you can say but the teacher in the rome mrs,p dident do enything and she was there the hole time wy are pople so domb all the time were i live

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    46. james s says:

      i swar all the time allmost all my nabers are bomb ass’ my naber has 6 small ugly dogs that all go up to the fens and bark all day and here house is so small only 3 dogs should be alowed and she one day called the cops on us one day for asking here to put the dogs inside and it was a wayst of the cops time wat is with poples brains some time

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    47. I was just in SanFrancisco last week, the place is crawling with scum bags everywhere, it didnt used to be like that, I will never go back there again. My opinion is that this guy was running, running hard to get away, if just for not paying a ticket he wouldnt have gone through all that to escape the cops. Looks like the other punks around him were his gang bannger buddies too. Maybe the cops over reacted but Ill tell you, once you are in a life or death situation you will understand. You flinch and you are going to get F_ucked up. Dont sit here and feel sorry for someone that would have blow you away for 5 bucks in the near future. Its easy to defend someone you dont know, if you ever live or visit crime ridden cities you would not ever question cops for blasting murdering scum bags away. Iused to be on the defensive side like some of you but then I got smart to the reasons.

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    48. Jimbo this is me

      http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2010/06/painful_price_muskegon_job-hun.html

      And I say what the cops is wrong….it is a slippery slope when we start being judge adn executioner. The guy might very well of been a scum bag….but it’s beginning to be hard to tel the difference in this dead scum bag, the scum bag that shot me and those wearing blue with a gun and a badge

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    49. What the cops *did* is wrong

      Mac,
      Can we have an edit button….LoL

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    50. That Guy says:

      Props Mac, looks like you blog has become popular enough (to have caught the attention) to have the Police shills coming in to post their shill propaganda… in this case it appears Greydog is the shill… count how many times he posted the same thing…

      Shills suck, but they do show that “they” know people are reading here ,and they are trying to counter act (by shouting the same propaganda) the voice of the honest public… props.

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    51. thebronze says:

      This is BULLSHIT Mac!

      This was a good shoot by SFPD. This turd ran from them, shot at them and then a member of the crowd took the suspect’s dropped gun and ran away with it. The gun was recovered and at least one person is in custody.

      Stop spreading anti-police lies. You lose credibility with people like me, when you do.

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      • That Guy says:

        Go away you shills… if someone took the gun and ran away with it… HOW DID THEY RECOVER IT… you are full of crap… and a shill… go away.

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      • MikeH says:

        Mac did nothing but present the story. Then the comments broke into two camps: those that trust what the police say reflexively and those that distrust what the police say reflexively. I have yet seen any comments here from an eye witness so we are left with bleating about our own assumptions of what happened.

        I am quite comfortable thinking the police overreacted to a subject fleeing and I do not believe he had a gun based on the story presented. I also thunk the cop will walk and it will be ruled justified because they circled around and will stick to the cover story. After all, it is one less scumbag on the street right?

        Cops never lie right? One day you will wake up to see them as the armed muscle of TPTB.

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        • Goldenfoxx says:

          Cops do lie and I have seen it first hand myself. I was a volunteer for our local police department. A cute gal came in wanting to know who owned a car and proceeded to hand over the license plate number to the Investigator. It’s against the rules to hand out or give out personal info, but he did it any ways. I confronted him, and he denied doing anything illegal. Then he smirked and said “you are just a volunteer, my word goes against yours.” I quit after witnessing that, and he was out the door not too long after that. He got caught DUI. LOL! I’m sure there are some good cops out there, but for the most part, they’ll lie to protect themselves and hang you out to dry.

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    52. where did you find this credible evidence of the gun being recovered and someone in custody.
      please do share

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    53. Sheepdog says:

      Please, if I could offer my perspective… I have nine years in law enforcement. AND I am a serious survivalist-patriot-resistor-conspiracy-theorist-history lover-prepping militia man. The wife home schools the children. I have been kicked off my land by the government man (I built that house with my own hands, paid cash for it, wasn’t owing money). Maybe you can say I don’t fit in as a LEO, but believe me, there are many like me. And I am just like many of you. The AR, the regimen of personal time and money to get ready and proficient. All the OD molle, we are similar.

      I would stand next to most any of you if Zombie Mowing was the mission. But when I read comments that some of you would shoot me, or are waiting for the time when you can…. Please consider every man, every encounter as an individual. I rue the day I am drawn into a gun fight with a fellow patriot because of this

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      • MikeH says:

        I feel I very strongly agree with you. Katrina was a wakeup for me and many others here. The videos of cops disarming everyone made me wonder what I would have done. I came to the conclusion that I would not have fired on the police at that time. However, that was a specific cirmsutance and in a more serious event my answer might be different.

        Given the reasonableness of your comment I would guess you would not follow a BS order like that.

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        • Sheepdog says:

          You guess correctly. I would follow NO unlawful order. In fact, there would be a duty to stand with the People. Law enforcement has it all wrong. They can’t be federalized. Because the Feds have no jurisdiction apart from hot pursuit, and if the sheriff authorizes there activity. Local leos or county law putting on a FEMA hat does not trump the substance of these united States of america (no caps was intentional).

          In that situation, there is a duty to stand down, remove the uniform, escape and evade like any other free man. Of course, any available assets are in play, as are tactics which become advantageous. Generally speaking, most leos aren’t going to have the guts to do anything but follow orders…evidenced by Katrina. Sad but true. Just remember there are a few of Me out there. And don’t fixate on the uniform, symbol of authority, and all the assumptions built into them. In fact, forget the uniform for a minute… If a man comes into your realm-space, attempts to exert force upon you-yours-or your property, AND that force violates common law, the State and/or US Constitution, or Moral Law… Then what has he made himself and what has he given up? God and man, for centuries have said that he has thereby given up his right to not be arrested, have force

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    54. Sheepdog says:

      because of this uniform…. And because of a false perception. Just keep in mind, I am good at what I do, I protect your rights from a run away system. My heart is with The People. I can be both places and be most useful to the cause.

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      • And this is truth, not all cops are retards! Oath keepers are an organization that won’t follow b.s. orders. If you really want to know more about law enforcement request a citizen ride along program, and do not pre-judge!

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        • Lohkai says:

          And statistically, there are an inordinate number of submissives among law enforcement as opposed to the general population. Hmm, I like that. -teehee

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    55. Strawman says:

      The police aren’t paying a high enough price yet. I suspect they will before too much longer. Forget about wars overseas. The next ‘big’ one will be much closer.

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    56. foldenfan says:

      Just read online that his hands tested positive for gun shot residue. Also that he was wanted in Washington in connection with the murder of a pregnant woman.

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    57. Bloodyfellow says:

      Sucks to be him don’t it…Dead! I haven been in these cops shoes more them once in my life. As much distrust I have with police due to my own experiences. I can relate to this situation I’ve been there.

      In the Marines we used the the residue test in Iraq as well. The bastards we were fighting would throw down their weapons after an engagement and just walk or drive away like they did not know shit. We would sometimes catch up to them and give them the old residue test and “Now your fucked! O by the way shit head..! I got you AK in back of my HMV.” To be honest with all of you on here if we were in a real bad mood, say… one of our guys got hurt …we made sure who ever got the residue test failed it and that Ak-47 that’s been in back of my HMV all day must be yours. :) “Hey f*cker you ever been to Abu Ghraib?”

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    58. scott says:

      fat cops gone wild….and nothing will happen to the shooter

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    59. Wow your easy, fooldenfan

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    60. Mark Wood says:

      NO BLOOD FOR JACK BOOTED THUG!!!!!! Stop donating blood folks thats only way to get the attention of these power hungrey MFers, How is that hopey changey thing working for ya,

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    61. Mark Wood says:

      BY law cops can lie, the supreme court has stated so, its true, most of you were to young to remember when that law was passed. NO BLOOD FOR COMMIE BASTARDS> Better dead than red, you SOB!!

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      • Slippery says:

        Whatever Mark. The supremes ruled that cops can lie to SUSPECTS in the course of an investigation i.e. undercover work and interrogations. For example “Listen Joe criminal, I have an eyewitness and video tape of you robbing that convenience store” Joe criminal: “ok you got me”

        It is highly illegal as a cop to lie in court or to a prosecutor. If you are found to be lying you will, I guarantee, be fired and maybe prosecuted depending on what the lie is about.

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    62. Beefcake says:

      As for this guy’s death in general? Good riddance, he sounded like a real winner when you see who he was and what he did. Am I questioning the tactics the police used? Definitely.

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    63. Just me says:

      At least the foxes are investigating the hen house, I’m sure the other foxes will be cleared.

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    64. sorry but the part that gets me the most is the way I continued to see the guy laying on the ground bleeding profusely and not one person or officer even applies pressure to hold his blood in.

      to me it looked like they left him there untouched on purpose until he was already dead. I seen no effort to keep him alive but yet there is enough time to pass for all these other cops to show up and still render him no aid. That is what makes me MAD and lose any respect for these officers, ALL of them shown.

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    65. Bloodyfellow says:

      Fire marshall Bill Rebuilding LA

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEfQD9Wjcw&feature=related

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    66. Red Leader says:

      Evilzz, a suspect who is still moving is still a threat. They can cary more than one gun just like a cop. A suspect that will shoot at the police will still try and kill them even if wounded. It is the code they live by. You live in a Pollyana world. You have no clue how and why cops die. The procedures they follow were developed by studying why cops die.

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      • Slippery says:

        No to mention the cops had an angry mob forming around them, that would be their number one concern at that time.

        Evilzz, I saw at least one officer trying to render aid.

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        • Slippery, I am not condoning this suspect wasn’t a creep or what ever. what I am concerned about and do not like is what I seen of him already down. are you telling me you personally find no fault or wrong in how any of this was done while the suspect was down??

          checking someones pulse is not aid I would expect or what I would have personally done. but I do give that one cop a prop for actually touching him after the fact.

          for 2 officers to turn into that many multiple officers is way more time than this video shows and yet he still laid on the ground untouched.

          the officers in this video where very well armed for any problems from the crowd. I am not a gun expert but I seen some very heavy firepower there.

          I do understand a officers job is tough and happens in split second things, I commend them for that, but compassion must exist in all circumstances or we ALL are screwed.

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          • Slippery says:

            Thanks for your respectful response Evilzz, I will try to do the same.

            Cops are not EMT’s at best they are first responders. They have little to no medical supplies in their squads, at least in most jurisdictions, especially in big cities where medical personnel often reach a scene before cops do. It’s just not practical.

            Judging by my personal experiences and the amount of blood I saw in that video, this is my opinion only, there was very little anyone could have done to help that suspect.

            Would it have changed the circumstances had they been seen doing symbolic CPR or putting pressure on what were probably multiple gunshot wounds? I can tell you cops are not crazy about getting another persons blood on them nowadays and taking something home to the family.

            I’m not a blanket cop defender, I do try to give the benefit of the doubt when possible. Honestly, I see not very much to be critical of in this situation.

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        • Evilzz says:

          Slippery, I respect you discussing this.
          I am trying to give benefit of doubt to the police. he was dangerous to the officers. I do accept that.

          the symbolic gesture you stated is exactly that, a symbolic gesture. any type of even holding a hand over the gun shot hole or simply holding him down instead of flopping around like a fresh shot dear would have went along way in making things not look so bad, or the police as so uncaring.

          I would and do expect the officers to finish taking him into custody before he was left there motionless.

          I am not saying put handcuffs on.
          I am simply saying, maybe 2 or 3 officers gathered down around him holding him down, or maybe even one of them with a knee to the back of the neck holding him down would have went way farther in helping to quell this in how it looks.

          thus, they or he would have been blocking a lot of the view of HIM and appear to bystanders as being tended too when in fact, it is over for him.

          I know you and some others will not agree with me for one reason or another but he would not have looked like a ‘fresh shot dear’ then. the bystanders seen that as a police hunting trophy kill.

          btw, if someone doesn’t want to ever get any blood on themselves, they should not carry a gun, let alone shoot another person or be a police officer.

          it is a good thing I am not a police officer because when I would have confronted him and went to talk to him about checking his ticket and he darted into a run, I would have let him run away, I would not have even tried to chase him over a train fare ticket.
          I know, that would make me a shitty cop to the hard core ones..lol

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    67. interesting concept and interesting word ‘Pollyana’ the rest of what you say is someone desperately looking for a reason for justification of an event. if a true threat, then why the backs to him by many, many other law officers?.. it is more than obvious he had no weapon while laying on the ground with hands outright. same as cops taking someone into custody laying face down and arms extended.

      suspect on ground, face down, with hands on ground. leave to bleed to death. nice policy YOU officers have.

      for the record, I have family members in law enforcement and I WILL show them this tonight so they may try to defend this to me. I find it doubtful they will like what they see and knowing they will have to ‘Look Me In the Eye’ to try and defend it to me. I do not think they will. no need for a reply from you, you have said enough in my mind.

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    68. VRF says:

      all I have to say at this point is

      the cops didnt know who they had until after they killed him,

      so the argument that he was wanted in a suspected other criminal matter is moot

      and it was about Bus fare , and resisting their “orders”

      people what you are witnessing is the fear in the government, and the policing of the people.

      anyone of us that doesnt crawl to their feet to kiss them..could be shot to death..and than have a bullshit story made up about who they think you were, or are

      what if today you got gunned down..and they went into your home to find your stash of guns and ammo and food

      your going to labled a nut and a threat

      were here folks ..heed this

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      • Slippery says:

        VRF you are right, the cops did not know about this guys wanted status or background when the cops were on the platform checking tickets.

        However, the suspect DID KNOW his status. Most likely he KNEW or thought the cops were looking to talk to him about the incident in Seattle. The suspect did KNOW that HE had a gun on him. He KNOWS he has no ticket, this means he KNOWS he probably will get a ticket for trying to ride for free. He KNOWS they will ask for his ID in order to write the ticket. He KNOWS they will check his name for wants and warrants as a matter of routine. He KNOWS if this happens he is SCREWED.

        You cannot dismiss that this suspect may have acted in a manner that would draw the cops attention. Is it such a stretch to imagine that the suspect, once he encountered the cops, panicked thinking that the cops were going to arrest him for the Seattle incident? IF he believes he is caught maybe he takes off running, maybe he pulls his gun out even before running, maybe while running the suspect starts firing rounds to persuade the cops to stop chasing him and thus allowing him to remain free?

        Unless you want to believe that cops get their marching orders to go out and kill the citizenry and that every other cop is just fine with that. If that’s the case then there is nothing more that I can say.

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        • VRF says:

          Good points.

          and Im just playing devils advocate on this, I really am not 100% sure that guy wasnt shooting back.

          this is not only what the cops are dealing with , but us citizens are dealing with too..

          these loose on the street nut bags come across your path and alter it for life, or take your life or loved one.

          I will never be known not to support self defense to what ever level it has to be to come out on top.

          I guess the jury is still out on this one, or not

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    69. Anonymous says:

      Mr. Jaffe: The usual lunch or the usual dinner?
      Harry Callahan: Well, what difference does that make?
      Mr. Jaffe: None.
      Harry Callahan: Say Jaffe, is that Tan Ford still parked in front of the bank?
      Mr. Jaffe: Tan ford…
      [checks]
      Mr. Jaffe: Yep. Tan Ford
      Harry Callahan: Engine running?
      Mr. Jaffe: I don’t know. How can I tell?
      Harry Callahan: Exhaust fumes coming from the tailpipe.
      Mr. Jaffe: Oh, my God. That is awful. Look at all that pollution.
      Harry Callahan: [Harry turns to see] Yeah. Do me a favor.
      [gives him slip of paper]
      Harry Callahan: Call this number.
      Mr. Jaffe: Police department?
      Harry Callahan: Yeah. Tell them Inspector Callahan thinks there’s a 211 in progress at the bank. Be sure and tell them that’s IN progress.
      Mr. Jaffe: 211. Yes sir.
      [goes to phone and starts dialing up]
      Harry Callahan: Now, if they’ll just wait for the cavalry to arrive.
      [suddenly a gun shot goes off and an alarm bell follows immediately]
      Harry Callahan: Ah, shit.

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    70. joshua10 says:

      If the police officers could not find a weapon at the crime scene that could be linked to this young man, and the three criteria for use of lethal force are not met (ability, opportunity, and intent), then it was not a righteous shooting on the part of the police…over a train fare. If the police claim that the young man was shooting at them, they had better find a gun at the scene.

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    71. 21Ravens…………….

      you better do a little more reading around here and get some facts straight before you have any more diarrhea of the mouth about me and being robbed and shot by anyone much less a minority scumbag on the street……been there, done that and know more about it than most

      http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2010/06/painful_price_muskegon_job-hun.html

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    72. Josh says:

      I see what appears to be a gun in the median there: http://i.imgur.com/ZAch8.jpg

      It is bright, shiny, and gun-shaped. In the second video the object is no longer there (and of course the second video does show evidence removal but I do not believe it is a gun, possibly a wallet or a phone).

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    73. Plain Old American says:

      I wasn’t there and I know enough from recalling stressful situations like this that two people just 10 feet apart can both see very different views. I am not positive that this shooting wasn’t justified.

      There are some very interesting points about the weapon being seen and then disappearing. Cops obviously didn’t control the scene if someone actually did remove a gun.

      What is obvious and far less open to debate (IMHO) is that the police have lost a tremendous amount of public support. For the most part the blame for that has to fall on the officers and agencies themselves.

      When law enforcement is terrorizing the public today – tomorrow when TSHTF cops are gonna wish they had made allies of the public as opposed to enemies.

      Copout & Sheepdog, you guys have a tough row to hoe. Let the folks around you know where you stand. You are going to be very valuable in the future.

      God bless.

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    74. Evilzz says:

      and so now the plot thickens?????

      now I am finding it all even harder to swallow.

      I guess they will say no shot in the back next.
      what ever. I am done listening for truth on this one.

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    75. VRF says:

      Oh so now the “suspected felon” while fleeing shoots himself in the neck and than throws his gun 20 feet in front of himself…yeah…anyone want to buy some land or a bridge?

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    76. Dr. Prepper sez says:

      all I can say is at least there’s one less career criminal, repeat-felon, parole-violating, potential murderer in the world….

      No wonder he ran after getting noticed by the police….he was a person of interest in a murder investigation back in his home state.

      Makes me wonder how many ghetto-monkeys like him are out there among us right now…..just one slip-up away from a firefight in the street with the cops because they have warrants….

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    77. Remember, the updated report said “self inflicted”. That does not necessarily mean that he did it intentionally.

      There was one video where a silver handgun was laying about 20 feet from the guy and someone in the crowd snatched it up.

      So, it looks like I owe them apologetic thoughts. I wasn’t completely sure the costumed thugs in blue were wrong (they aren’t always).

      So, this wasn’t a murder. Just another guy that really didn’t know how to handle his gun.

      I wonder what The Corporation wanted with him? Its amazing that many of these “warrants” are for things unlawful. Certainly nothing “warranting” pursuit and jail time. Often times they are warrants based on the corporate rules that you broke and nothing to do with the law at all. Oh, they call it the law but is “under the color of law” which is an insult to the law. Most cops don’t know the difference. They see it all as “law”. There is a reason the supreme court ruled that selecting employees based on IQ points was lawful for police departments. If a guy is too smart he might figure out that what he’s doing isn’t right and refuse to enforce laws that aren’t laws at all. Certainly don’t want anyone but the corporate administration figuring out whats lawful, now do we?

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      • 11 Bravo says:

        Not really getting your point here…..

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      • VRF says:

        I get ya Net Ranger..and it is quite possible they were fired back at, and the force of retaliation was justified.

        trust me , if someone was running away from me fireing back at me , i would do my best to drop them like the bag of shit they are.

        In the future im going to sit back and see how these type of events unfold, too many open holes in some of this shit, and the way things are being reported these days, everyone is guilty until proven innocent, and I myself have fallen into that abyss, and it aint right.

        but the way he was treated once the threat was removed is still up for debate.

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      • Sorry Net, I am not buying this fabricated story, I am surprised you are

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    78. Igy says:

      If the police did not shoot him, as is claimed, and there was no visible weapon, as is claimed, wouldn’t the police be looking for a sniper perhaps, someone with a gun nearby? I would expect the police to be taking cover if the shooter was not known.

      I don’t know what actually happened, but if this turns out to be another case of a few bad officers making the rest look bad,……………………..

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    79. Joe says:

      .380 is a relatively common “back up” firearm carried by police.

      Smaller calibers are commonly preferred because the backups are often small frame weapons which has a sharper recoil, so the smaller caliber is chosen to mitigate the lower mass of the firearm.

      i’m guessing they’ll find the missing weapon if they check all the cops beltlines and ankles.

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    80. Evilzz says:

      ShotSpotter, a gunshot detection and location system, had recorded 10 shots fired over the course of six seconds.

      so how many shots was the officers and how many was his?.. did he shoot once and shoot himself or what when he ‘shot from under his arm’ ??

      how many shots in his back was from the cops?
      I do not see that in the update, only to say the fatal one was from himself?. I don’t get it. so if he did have a gun and such he must be stupid to carry a loaded gun with only one bullet in his pocket as backup?. maybe he like barney phife and only one in the gun? lol.

      I like what they now say about the other gun that they recovered earlier and was their proof for others to declare it a ‘good shoot’, how do you recover something that had no part in it.

      anyway, if ten shots and he shot himself then, that must mean the cops unloaded 9 firing wildly and endangering the innocent bystanders.

      none of this pass’s the muster of what really happened in it all.

      ahhhhhh, enough of this. my questions wont be answered. only guessed upon. I can do that myself.. LOL

      Later All, I have work to do, no time for guess work. :)

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      • Evilzz says:

        btw, I would think if you shoot yourself in the head and it doesn’t go fully through your head. it will bounce around and turn your brain into minced cheese. you wont be alive for more than 30 sec’s.

        that was the mob’s favorite hit with a simple 22. it wont pass through. just bounce around. I am thinking it would be very hard for a .380 to not pass through and still be found in the head it was declared self inflicted.. I am no power giver on what a .380 does to a head so maybe I am wrong and should just shut up.. LOL
        later.

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        • Anonymous says:

          You probably shouldn’t think so much! Stop hurting yourself and go work at a blood bank, without gloves.

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          • Evilzz says:

            sounds like you have plenty of experience with blood on your hands too. don’t think for yourself, that would be to much work for you, so is having a name I see.

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    81. MikeH says:

      Wow. The magic bullet theory. A suspect that shot himself in the neck and threw the gun 20 feet into the crowd where an unknown person risked life and limb to recover a crappy .380 (IMHO, anyway) and ran away. The magic bullet worked it’s way out of his neck and landed in his shirt pocket.

      What part of this is supposed to be believable??

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    82. Texasboy says:

      If you look in the first video right when the person is recording in the bottom right hand corner you can see a silver gun lying on the ground.I am 32 years old and ive been around guns all my life so i pretty sure its a gun .

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    83. Texasboy says:

      Im not saying it was his gun but there is a gun there , and the guy in the hood picked up a phone, u could read his lips when he asked someone was that there phone, and if he picked up a gun dont you think the cop standing to the right of the guy recording would have saw him, hell he was looking right at him when he bent down.

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    84. Whatever says:

      That does not look like a gun to me. It looks like a cassette tape.

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