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    Silver

    “There Is A Dark Side To Our Species” This Is What People Fear The Most In A Societal Collapse… And It Isn’t Hunger, Disease or Exposure

    Joshua Krause
    July 10th, 2017
    ReadyNutrition.com
    Comments (168)
    Read by 16,469 people

    The following article was originally published by Joshua Krause at Tess Pennington’s ReadyNutrition.com.

    Tess is the author of The Prepper’s Blueprint: A Step-By-Step Guide To Prepare For ANY Disaster

    people-chaos-panic

    There are a lot of reasons why people prep for disasters, but there’s one reason that’s far more popular than the others. What people fear most when they think about what would happen if society collapsed, isn’t hunger, disease, or exposure. They fear what other people might do to them when the chips are down.They worry that members of their community might hurt or kill them to survive.

    And though most preppers won’t admit it, I think most of us fear what we might be capable of in a bad situation. We don’t have to find out if we have enough food stocked up in our pantries.

    However, it should be noted that there is an alternate view on what most people will do if society collapses. For historians who study disasters and social collapse, there is hope that people won’t automatically turn into savages if the grid goes down. A writer for Slate recently interviewed several experts on this topic, and here’s what they had to say:

    Can this ray of sunshine be trusted? I’d love to believe it can be. I asked Scott Knowles, a historian of disaster, what historians and sociologists who study collapses and disasters have to say. His answer: It depends. “We help, and also we don’t,” Knowles said in an email to me.

    Over the years, academic researchers have gone back and forth on the question. “This whole area of work really got going in the Cold War when defense planners wanted to model post-[nuclear] attack scenarios,” Knowles wrote. The Disaster Research Center at Ohio State University (which has since moved to the University of Delaware) “did the work over years to model community response, and they pushed back strongly on the idea of social collapse—they found instead too much of the opposite—people converge on a disaster scene!”

    And there are countless examples of people being altruistic and coming together during disasters; perhaps even more so than examples of people turning on each other.

    In a 1961 paper (unpublished until 1996), sociologist Charles Fritz laid out the case for this “contrary perspective” that disasters and other majorly stressful events don’t necessarily result in social breakdown and trauma.

    Fritz, who had begun his observations of disasters while stationed in Britain during the Blitz, reported that during that time he saw “a nation of gloriously happy people, enjoying life to the fullest, exhibiting a sense of gaiety and love of life that was truly remarkable,” with Britons reaching beyond class distinctions, sharing supplies, and talking to people they had never spoken with before.

    Marshaling sociological and historical evidence, Fritz recounts example after example of people pulling together in the middle of tragedy: black and white police and militia members uniting to maintain order during the yellow fever epidemic in Memphis in 1878; enemies forgetting old quarrels during the German bombing of Krakow in World War II; community members reporting strengthened personal relationships with neighbors after the White County, Arkansas, tornado of 1952.

    In general, researchers agree that people will try to form alliances and help each other.

    This shouldn’t come as a surprise. If humans didn’t have an inclination towards supporting each other, then we wouldn’t have a sophisticated society to begin with.

    However, I think we all know that there is a dark side to our species as well, and many of the examples provided by the author don’t reflect that. It is true that we are a social species whose members would rather work together to build a society, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t disasters which could easily bring out the worst in us.

    The best example that comes to my mind, is the Siege of Leningrad during World War Two. For more than two years, the city was encircled by German forces who cut off all supplies to the city. This lead to the deaths of more than a million civilians, mainly due to starvation. And during that time there were thousands of people who were arrested for murdering others for their ration cards, or killing strangers and family members before cannibalizing them. And in most cases, these people were found to have no criminal records when they were caught.

    Point being, there are disasters that will drive ordinary people to commit heinous crimes, and there’s a big difference between those incidents, and the disasters that don’t lead to massive crime waves. In most cases, a destructive event only leads to temporary disruptions to the supply of food, medicine and fuel. People are happy to work together, knowing that everything will return to normal in short order.

    But on the rare occasion that a disaster disrupts the flow of goods and energy for months or years at a time, a significant percentage of the population will turn on their neighbors to survive. There’s a direct relationship between how desperate people are, and how far they’re willing to abandon their morality to keep themselves and their family fed, and that’s something that preppers should never forget.

    Related: The Anatomy of a Breakdown

    This article was originally published by Joshua Krause at Tess Pennington’s Ready Nutrition Website.

    Joshua Krause was born and raised in the Bay Area. He is a writer and researcher focused on principles of self-sufficiency and liberty at Ready Nutrition. You can follow Joshua’s work at our Facebook page.


    The Prepper's Blueprint

    Tess Pennington is the author of The Prepper’s Blueprint, a comprehensive guide that uses real-life scenarios to help you prepare for any disaster. Because a crisis rarely stops with a triggering event the aftermath can spiral, having the capacity to cripple our normal ways of life. The well-rounded, multi-layered approach outlined in the Blueprint helps you make sense of a wide array of preparedness concepts through easily digestible action items and supply lists.

    Tess is also the author of the highly rated Prepper’s Cookbook, which helps you to create a plan for stocking, organizing and maintaining a proper emergency food supply and includes over 300 recipes for nutritious, delicious, life-saving meals. 

    Visit her web site at ReadyNutrition.com for an extensive compilation of free information on preparedness, homesteading, and healthy living.

     

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
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    Author: Joshua Krause
    Views: Read by 16,469 people
    Date: July 10th, 2017
    Website: http://readynutrition.com/

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

    168 Comments...

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    1. watching and waiting says:

      Has been discussed and posted on this site before. Consider The Sarajevo War (Bosnian conflict) and the siege of That City.

      Who was it, Serbio or such, a survivor of that conflict?

      Can happen here especially in the Mega-cities.

      • buttcrackofdoom says:

        selco can(and DOES) tell you all about how crazy it can get. shtfschool.com is a must-read.

      • Justice says:

        What will happen in a SHTF environment depends on where you live and how homogeneous your neighbors are. Where I used to live, I had little in common with my neighbors and often felt that they were the “other” in virtually every way.

        Pat Buchanan who wrote an article, Balkanization Beckons, link provided below. Consequently if the rule of law breaks down we will face what Selco did for the same reasons. Two or more distinct ethnic groups wagging civil war.

        But we are no longer that “band of brethren.” We are no longer one unique people “descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion.”

        We are from every continent and country. Nearly 4 in 10 Americans trace their ancestry to Asia, Africa and Latin America. We are a multiracial, multilingual, multicultural society in a world where countless countries are being torn apart over race, religion and roots.

        We no longer speak the same language, worship the same God, honor the same heroes or share the same holidays. Christmas and Easter have been privatized. Columbus is reviled. Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee are out of the pantheon. Cesar Chavez is in.

        Our politics have become poisonous. Our political parties are at each other’s throats.

        Christianity is in decline. Traditional churches are sundering over moral issues like abortion and same-sex marriage. Islam is surging.

        Our society seems to be disintegrating. Over 40 percent of all births now are illegitimate. Among Hispanics, the figure is 52 percent. Among African-Americans, 73 percent.

        And among children born to single moms, the drug use rate and the dropout rate, the crime rate and the incarceration rate, are many times higher than among children born to married parents.

        If a country is a land of defined and defended borders, within which resides a people of a common ancestry, history, language, faith, culture and traditions, in what sense are we Americans one nation and one people today?

        Neocons say we are a new kind of nation, an ideological nation erected upon a written Constitution and Bill of Rights.

        But equality, democracy and diversity are not mentioned in the Constitution. As for what our founding documents mean, even the Supreme Court does not agree.

        More and more, 21st-century America seems to meet rather well Metternich’s depiction of Italy — “a geographic expression.”

        • Justice says:

          Balkanization Beckons, Tuesday – July 15, 2014

          http://buchanan.org/blog/balkanization-beckons-6672

        • Kevin2 says:

          Justice

          That was well written, to the point and therefore more than a tad upsetting.

        • Anonymous5 says:

          @Justice…..

          Well said.

          We hear it from TPTB and the popular culture that our strength is in “diversity”. That is a load of nonsense. Our strength is in the unity that comes from shared values. About the only shared value that most of the people who have come to this country in the last 50 years is the desire to improve their lives. That is not really a shared value…it’s just a goal.

          Whether folks want to admit it or not, the values of the people who founded this country and most of whom settled it were people who had the Judeo/Christian ethic and were of European ancestry. Early immigrants may have come from different cultures, but they came here to become Americans and for the most part, embrace the culture and values upon which this country was founded.

          Not so much today. A very large percentage of those who come here seek to make this country like the hell-hole they left. They want the economic advantages and security this country has to offer, but they care little to nothing at all about assimilating and becoming real Americans.

          Buchanan is correct.

        • The Deplorable Braveheart says:

          Justice, check the book “Civil War II” by Thomas Chittum. He predicted back in the 90s what we’re going through today.

        • WhereEaglesDare says:

          @ Justice, I agree. 1961, 1952, and 1878 was definitely a different breed of people than what we have now!!

        • JustMe says:

          @ Justice, very well said.

          Short term, most people will get along. After that…

          9 Meals To Anarchy…

        • Azrael says:

          This alternative outcome depends on the extent of the disaster. There was a support system where things were normal and the crisis was localized. I kept thinking this study would be worthless if everyone everywhere was in SHTF. This quote struck me as pretty much the linchpin the whole article rested on.

          “People are happy to work together, knowing that everything will return to normal in short order.”

          What if we knew it it wouldn’t be normal for a long time? All bets are off then.

        • Concerned 1 says:

          Justic I agree w Kevin2. Your post was written very well and the points are valid.

      • Arby5 says:

        Don’t even think for a minute that everyone will be sitting around holding hands and singing Kum Bye Yah when the shoes drops.

        You MAY have a very short period of time immediately after the shoe drops before it REALLY hits the fan, BUT once people realize that the freebies ain’t gonna flow any more… LOOK OUT

      • Gandhi says:

        Dark side of humans=good business

      • A war scenario can not be used for a guideline of a total collapse. Wars have a common enemy where the victims have thier focus on. In a total collapse, anyone could be a potential enemy, even a child. Myself. I will be bugging out and isolate myself for at least a year. After a year, I would scout out areas to see if they are hostile or not before blending back into a society. Don’t fool yourself thinking your nextdoor neighbor wouldn’t consider taking what you have. A human is capable of anything when their cravings over power them.

        • I completely disagree and doubt you have any idea what you are talking about based on anything except what you have read from someone else.

          Any war scenario is the closest thing to resemble a true meltdown for one simple reason. In a war zone, at least in the older world order of real men without lawyers calling the shots,Killing was approved ! That cannot be duplicated with academic double speak. It is when the societal norms are broken down and killing is accepted.

          I am not saying this is a good thing, I am saying it is what it is and you are completely wrong in your assessment. Not a negative, just a reality check.

      • That guy was a fraud selling prepper types his sham training methods/ideas.

        It is beyond foolish to rely on academics to answer such a question. History tells us clearly that there will be acts of kindness and acts of madness, both in abundance ! Now we have massive racial animus created deliberately as part of the mix and that is NOT part of the academics bogus rationale and thesis. The trick will be to try and establish who will bring each one to you ? When Americans don’t have all their insane materialism nearly all will go insane more or less and break down mentally very quickly. Including most here on this site as well as most prepper type sites. Americans are extremely lazy and spoiled and will have no idea how to react. I know many here think they have it all figured out with their prepper mentality and those of you that have been in a war zone understand. The rest are just living in fantasy and will only be tested when the time comes. Some will be fine most will not, mainly because they are fat and cannot react properly. I would urge you all to get very healthy and fit and do a lot of training on your military type skills. Become a real warrior and create that mindset and at the same time realize it is all a defensive posture before it is an offensive posture. Your fitness/health/mindset/skills will be your confidence and you will have little if any fear because of those factors. Beside you will enjoy your health/fitness skill sets daily right now no matter what happens or doesn’t happen. So it is all positive, no negatives at all ! The only impediment is ones own laziness and ignorance!

    2. Aurelius says:

      In the most extreme of survival situations, the most extreme of human conduct is sure to surface!

      • Azrael says:

        My use of deadly force continuum would change for sure. Katrina style situation, it would stay pretty much like it is in a civil society. Total grid down, I would use deadly force more quickly. Not because I want to kill anyone, I would prefer not to kill anyone, but the level of desperation of others would skyrocket and your normal trust levels of strangers would plummet. Bad combination.

        Do you really know anyone? There are more sociopaths in society that people realize, which is 3-5%. Out of 100 people three are. 1000 people 30. You get the idea. In a civil society, most of the behave because they don’t want to go to jail, etc. When the chips are down, watch out.

        Unfortunately, the trigger finger will have to be more itchy, and if it’s bad enough you are going to make mistakes during high stress situations and kill someone that does’t need killing. Get your mind around that right now. Hesitate and die or live with killing someone who wasn’t as big of a threat you thought. That’s why I would have sliding scale of force, depending on the situation. One where thing will come back to normal pretty soon and the Justice system back online, will motivate you and others to keep it a bit more civil during encounters.

      • Agree it will be in spades for one simple reason. How many whack jobs live in USA today and how many will want what somebody else has when there is nothing available and law and order do not exist ?

    3. Templar 1 says:

      My concern with the “helpful to each other” data is it is from a time before the current selfish, me first society that has been created since the late 50’s and early 60’s.
      That was a time when the family unit was still strong, families actually worked together and neighbors knew each other’s names, even if they lived miles apart.
      Since then the family unit has been traded for instant gratification, gimme, gimme, and do it now.
      I have always believed that 3-5% of the population is out right evil and another 30% are held in check by the rule of law. In a disaster scenario, that puts a third of the population on shaky ground and endangers the rest. Add to this the population explosion since then and folks, we have a problem.

      While I pray for the best,,, I prep for the worst!!

      I look at my co-workers, neighbors and the community at large, and I see so many people that are not prepared in any way.
      I maintain that the zombie apocalypse is going to be masses of starving people roaming and looking for food and will do anything to get it.
      My fear is what I will have to do, to survive and protect my family and the folks that I prep with.
      This is not my first wish of action,, but I know it is coming!!

    4. Robert says:

      “There’s a direct relationship between how desperate people are, and how far they’re willing to abandon their morality to keep themselves and their family fed”

      The writer is more optimistic than I,

      I’d be a bit more sinister and figure people only need an excuse to abandon their morality and choose depravity for depravities sake.

      • KY Mom says:

        The evolving police state and demonetization policy in India has caused immense suffering to the people and is destroying the economy.

        November 8, 2016 – Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave only four hours’ notice that 86% of the cash in India (the 7th largest economy in the world) would be effectively worthless. With over 90% of all transactions done in cash, this brought India’s economy to a virtual standstill.

        The old currency could be converted ONLY at specific locations with ID and a bank account. Daily limits on the amount of currency to be converted and waiting hours in long lines added to the problems.

        Since over half of India’s population did not have a bank account and 300 million did not have basic ID (such as Aadhar), they could NOT access the banking system at all or convert their now worthless cash.
        ht tp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-17/indian-economy-grinds-halt-after-cash-ban-demonetisation-has-shaken-our-faith-moneta

        India: Cash Is Back (But The Crisis Has Deepened)
        Cash is back. “The economy, however, continues to be stagnant. Businesses continue to fail. If not for economic reasons, businessmen have grown tired of corrupt and rapacious bureaucrats and an extremely uncertain regulatory regime.”

        “If food is so cheap, does it not indicate that poor people are unable to buy? Are they going hungry? Moreover, if farmers continue to suffer and cannot profit from their produce, what effect will that have on the future food supplies? [Ed. note: the collapse in food prices was originally triggered by the government’s overnight cash ban]”

        “Big Brother has truly arrived – in India of all places. As the Hindustan Times reports, India’s government inter alia brazenly asserts that “privacy is not a fundamental right”. The cards are mandatory for all citizens, and since almost everything has to be linked to them (including bank accounts), no-one can afford not to apply for a card.

        As the Hindustan Times correctly notes: “Aadhar marks a fundamental shift in citizen-state relations: from ‘We the People’ to ‘We the Government’. If the rampant misuse of electronic surveillance powers and willful ignorance of the law by the state is any precedent, the future looks bleak”.

        “The national ID card, Aadhar, is now virtually compulsory. All your bank accounts, tax returns, utilities services, etc. must be linked to it, or you will find your accounts frozen and “services” (passport, driving license, etc.) provided by government monopolies will be denied to you.

        Aadhar adds nothing useful to the lives of Indians, but it is certainly a useful tool for the evolving police state.”

        “India is completely changing its indirect tax system. A GST (goods and services tax) was implemented on 1st July 2017. This was originally planned to replace a plethora of national and provincial taxes, and was an attempt to streamline the flow of transactions and to remove taxes-on-taxes.”

        GST – “not only businesses don’t know how it works, people in working for the government haven’t a clue either. There are already seven different rates, depending not only on the types of products, but also the prices of those products.”
        ht tp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-02/india-cash-back-crisis-has-deepened

    5. Neal Jensen says:

      Mac, please delete my previous comment, this one better speaks what I wanted to say.

      This article goes straight to what I have been saying for YEARS..Over and over again. PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY but it doesn’t require a degree or doctorate understanding to get it.

      “But on the rare occasion …a significant percentage of the population will turn on their neighbors to survive.

      There’s a direct relationship between how desperate people are, and how far they’re willing to abandon their morality to keep themselves and their family fed, and that’s something that preppers should never forget.”

      And this is EXACTLY why I keep telling people to just stop and study people on the street, what they say, what they do, and how they act when they think people aren’t watching and listening. THAT is when you really see how people are, and why you need to see these things before the disaster happens so you can gauge how people WILL REACT AFTER THE DISASTER HITS.

      Most preppers, strike that, MOST PEOPLE NEVER PUT THEMSELVES IN THOSE SCENARIOS AND try to reason out what they would do or how they would FEEL after such an event. If you read all those Post Disaster books and then imagine yourself in those situations with your own families lives in them, it is a chilling thing to think about on its face, but is a dark thing to think about your own personal fallout if you made the same decisions as the characters in those books.

      WE are NOT thinking about the psychology of WHAT WE must adopt in order to survive in those and similar kinds of scenarios.

      Taking another human life is hugely traumatic and UNNATURAL EVENT in the physical sense, but NO ONE is prepared for the mental fallout when they themselves have to do it for the first time.

      The personal angst and replaying the event (Post Traumatic stress) over and over again in their heads reanalyzing it for any sense if they could have done it differently, nor the intense guilt they will experience over that first time, and the uncertainty and self doubt that will consume them.

      It can be severe enough to cause them to freeze up entirely the next time it comes to pass WHEN THEIR LIVES OR FAMILIES LIVES DEPEND ON THE RIGHT ACTION is necessary and that mental battle explodes in their heads stopping them from acting RIGHT to the next situation.

      Prepping for the worst should absolutely include preparing oneself mentally to deal with scenes of mass death, mass suffering and INHUMANITY displayed and directed at others as they react to disaster events, and NEVER put anything below what your neighbors, your friends, your community and in some cases your own family members may do.

      • buttcrackofdoom says:

        well said, neal!

        • DeplorableBitterClinger says:

          The thin veneer of civilization is more like cheap wallpaper.

          • Agree it is all about the stimulus applied and how you react to the stimuli ! Some already know this from their life experiences, most have no idea. The experienced ones are at a a great advantage mentally and psychologically. They are the ones that are more likely to be truly prepared and not fretting about what may confront them. They realize it will be what it will be and their skill sets will be available no matter what. And that is what real confidence is about. They will also be less likely to over react and do stupid shit to harm others without due cause.

      • Gandhi says:

        I practice hardening myself to terrible sights of destruction but googling pictures of ugly naked old ladies.

      • Anonymous says:

        “And this is EXACTLY why I keep telling people to just stop and study people on the street, what they say, what they do, and how they act when they think people aren’t watching and listening”
        ———————
        Absolutely true! there are people I know, who I trusted, who always acted politely when others were around, but who, I discovered later, showed a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT side to their nature when alone with someone! I am talking about pedophiles, rapists etc.

        People can be so nice when others are around but when they get you alone, they abuse you (OR YOUR CHILDREN!!)
        Trust no one and always carry a gun! (Even your half brother, step father, etc.) Basically, there are a lot of f… bastards around and don’t let them harm your loved ones.

    6. Kevin2 says:

      Its highly probable that in civilized communities where the inhabitants are disciplined enough to get there (education) and stay there (hard work) that the logic of cohesion would dominate. Communities that aren’t functioning in civilized times will eat themselves and everything else within their reach.

      • Jacknife says:

        Stay away from people, they will do crazy things when they’re hungry, as expected. Always be prepared to go mobile.
        Stay quiet Be smart

      • Concerned-Citizen! says:

        I mean can you folks really imagine what it would be like in say, the heart of Chicago or Baltimore or Philadelphia or St. Louis or Los Angeles, chuck full of such piss-poor, low-quality people and I will leave it at that. I hate the “city” and try my hardest to avoid it like all of the time.

        • Kevin2 says:

          They’re not good places in relative good times. West Phila, Germantown, K&A? Forgetaboutit. South Phila Italian neighborhoods would somewhat band together as their highly related with cousins, aunts, uncles combined with likewise of the in-laws.

    7. EODshaun says:

      I clicked this article with the hope of some real info I could use. None of this is recent. Anyone worth their salt studying post collapse scenarios need look no further than New Orleans post-Katrina. This is the new reality. This subject varies by demographics in a huge way now, no need to be PC about it. Using early 20th century ethno-states in conflict as examples is counter productive to preparing. I’m assuming this articles intent is just to help people in or near cities sleep better at night.

    8. PO'd Patriot says:

      The work I did for almost ten years allowed me to see up close and firsthand the barbaric side of what a human will do to another. Besides, the news is full of such stories everyday. In a grid down or war you could multiply that scenario tenfold.

    9. Rockmanr says:

      It is unsafe for people to go into some areas of the country now let alone in a time of long term crisis. Our diversity is a source of tribal war as various groups look outward for food and other supplies. In all the above examples the govt still functioned and enforced the laws with guns if needed. In a real break down the govt might not exist anymore That means local war lords and tribal organizations. The twits that think they can bug out to never never land with find wall to wall people around campfires with no food That is an explosive situation as they will start to look for food and will try to take it by force

      • GrandpaSpeaks says:

        We will be wounded but we will get by. I remember traveling the old twisting gravel Alaskan Highway. About one third up the 1100 miles there appeared what I estimated to be a 20 acre auto wreckers located in literally the middle of nowhere. I inquired of the owner. He said “this was as far as the clunkers made it”.

    10. Concerned-Citizen! says:

      Over the past 50 years or so we have witnessed a severe case of “Moral Decay” in society and that is a real concern for me personally. When the times get tough – watch out my fellow citizens!!

    11. TEST says:

      “If there is no god… *everything* is permissibile.”
      – Fyodor Dostoyevksi

      (and yes, he did write that, with the ellipsis)

      Essentially, for you die-hard (pun intended) atheists on this site, not matter how much you wiggle and squirm, ethics can ONLY be mere preference. Note that I am not saying you are immoral. Your day to day actions may be as good as mine, or anyone else’s. Or as philosopher Franis Schaeffer said on the same topic, in the atheist’s world, “Whatever is, is right.” I.e., if evolution decided x was the way things were, there is nothing standing outside of the evolutionary process to determine something is right or wrong. Note that this relativism would not include theistic evolution. I am not one of those, but if you are, as long as God is in the picture in some way, a valid basis for ethics exists.

      • Anonymous5 says:

        @TEST…..

        Well said.

      • rednek101 says:

        Test
        Ethics and morality are not by any means exclusive to religious people. A person’s background/education is the primary source of a persons ethics tool bag. A religious person reads the ten commandments and decides to follow these rules (education). An atheist can read these same ten commandments and decide to use them as well. The actions of the two people would be result in the same+- action/result given any ethical dilemma placed in their path. The difference between the two is that the religious person puts his commitment on display for the world to see whereas the atheist simply follows the rules without fanfare. Maybe religious people need a positive feedback mechanism to give confirmation for their commitment.
        I can tell you is that I have been screwed with/over by more religious people than atheists. In my world, religious people are no more ethical than any other person or group of people. They are still subject to the same “temptations”. The results of their ethical and moral failures are the same as any atheist.

        For the purpose of SHTF scenarios, trust is earned and reciprocated. Keep people at arms length until they prove themselves to be trustworthy.

        • Azrael says:

          I agree 100%. Being of the religious side of the equation. Those who have high integrity, from both sides who won’t abandon those pre-decided ethics/morals during a time that they are being tested. Religious folks that don’t have high integrity, will justify their abandonment of what is right, through the same mechanism they chose them. “God would want me to survive etc., so I’m going to do this thing that I know is wrong.” Atheists, don’t have that barrier, but would self justify their abandonment of that moral code. As with your example of the choosing the right things to do, the outcome is the same. Weak character is the cause of moral abandonment, not religion or lack thereof.

          I’ve seen it time and time again, with people of all kinds. There is always a justification in the minds of those who do the wrong things. That justification usually stems from selfishness. Church people having affairs, who can quote the Bible on not committing adultery, but somehow what they are doing is different. I hear the dumbest excuses sometimes for why someone did the wrong thing, even though it violated everything they used to stand for including illegal stuff.

          Others who have declared their Atheism or Agnosticism, doing things they had also declared to be wrong. One guy I knew would get so mad when he heard of a story of someone abusing a child sexually, declaring they should all be shot. Then one day the cops show up at work and arrest him. It turns out the dude had been dealing in child porn the whole time.

          Human nature.

          BTW I’m NOT a preacher. A very good friend is and hears even more outrageous things.

      • Depends entirely on who and what you think God is. I can assure you he is not some white haired guy floating around in flowing robes in the sky, as most think.

    12. I'm your huckleberry says:

      There will always be scum mixed in with the good elements of society. I will cooperate with and help those people that want to act civilized and become part of a community. But at the same time, I will do my best to eliminate the scum. You loot – we shoot.

    13. I’ve always said if you want to see what you really need to worry about during a collapse, just watch a few eposodes of Gangland on Spike TV. These animals will be taking anything they want, when they want.

      • Concerned-Citizen! says:

        That’s why it is so important to have good, working order firearms, sighted/scoped and ready to do what has to be done, from a nice little distance of a few hundred yards+ away. For those that think guns are the worst, most horrible instrument to touch or own, well, great luck to those with those ideas in their simple-minds. At the very least people, have a pistol, a longer range rifle and a battle rifle, such as AR or something along those lines. I would also toss a shotgun in as well for good measure.

    14. The Deplorable Braveheart says:

      Kevin2, PO’d Patriot, and Concerned-Citizen I agree. So far we’ve only seen and heard of the ‘worst of humanity’ coming from Muslim terrorists and Latino gangs like MS-13 or the Mexican Cartels. I still believe it can happen among our own people and expect it. I still dread knowing what I’ll have to do if/when they come to my door. I have no problem doing what I believe will be necessary to stay alive. It doesn’t mean I have to enjoy it.

      • Plan twice, prep once says:

        I find it amazing that nation after nation falls for the seductive ideas of communism and then in turn become compulsive enablers who feel it’s worth dying to force all other nations into communism even as their nations fail.

        And thus we find ourselves in a self destructive social peak. If Venezuela is any example, even in the face of a total collapse, they still cling to their nutty liberal ideas. People escaping the ravages of communism in South America come to the US and push communism here?

        I have to say though, after the advanced 100 IQ nations blow themselves up in a nuclear war of their own making, the 80 IQ tribal nations of Africa and S America will probably survive just fine.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Plan twice, prep once

          “I have to say though, after the advanced 100 IQ nations blow themselves up in a nuclear war of their own making, the 80 IQ tribal nations of Africa and S America will probably survive just fine.”

          Generally communism or not they’re shit holes. I assume its a warm climate thing as a people coming from the cold must plan, save (thrift), work had and be smart to survive the seasons. A warm climate people with lots of vegetation survive without the climatic weeding out process and their gene pool shows it. Generally the Southern Hemisphere will be far less touched in such a confrontation. Its like a variation of the “Planet Of The Apes”.

    15. Dan Morgan says:

      Those cases include very little if any
      “Diversity”.

      • Concerned-Citizen! says:

        I don’t care what anyone says, Diversity is not a good thing at the end of the day. . .

        • Justice says:

          Is ethnic, racial, and religious diversity truly a “strength”?

          Why then has the most diverse region of Europe, the Balkans—with its Serb, Croat, Albanian, Slovenian, Macedonian, Turkic peoples, and Catholic, Orthodox, and Islamic religions—had the bloodiest history?

          Was it not racial and ethnic diversity that tore the Soviet Union into 15 nations and half a dozen subnations, and is tearing at it still in the Caucasus?

          If diversity is a strength, why is Beijing, which worships strength, moving millions of Han Chinese into Tibet and western China to swamp the Tibetan and Uighur peoples, as they have done to the Mongolian and Manchu peoples? How did diversity work out for Rwanda and Burundi?

          If diversity is a strength, then why are Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen falling apart? Why are Sunni and Shiite, Palestinian and Israeli fighting? Why are Scots, Basques, Catalans, Venetians, and Flemish agitating for secession and independence?

          As racial, ethnic, and religious hatreds pull people apart and create terrorists all over our disintegrating world, why would we make ourselves ever more diverse?

          • Aurelius says:

            Justice; Because Israel and their “American” dual citizens direct that we do so. Diversity is our Strength pertains to the Tribe, not to us, can you not see how their hatred is served by this destructive slogan?? Centuries upon centuries, it was considered to be an axiom by everyone on Earth that Nation was Race, Race was Nation! So shall it be again although much too late to correct the diversity madness. The Tribe appears to be ascendant and because of their power in the media and elsewhere, I doubt they can be stopped!!!

        • DeplorableBitterClinger says:

          Like everything else, the lefties have ‘diversity’ exactly backwards.

    16. anonymous5 says:

      I think a lot of the altruism that occurs during many of the disasters we have witnessed, happens because people have hope of being rescued. They know that eventually, someone is coming to help them. The power will be back on. Food and water will be delivered. Medical care will be restored. And they know that eventually, things will get back to normal.

      But when it becomes obvious that things will NOT get back to normal any time soon, then people will tend to turn on each other and the law of the jungle will supersede rule of law and civility.

      I also think the basic morality of the culture will come into play as well. After all….if people are willing to riot over the newest athletic shoe, there is not much in their character to restrain them when the lights go out, the grocery shelves are empty and the EBT card no longer works.

    17. Newcreature52 says:

      I find it significant that all the examples of altruism cited were during times that were much different than today. There is a reason that so many Preppers have plans for bugging out (or relocating beforehand) to more rural locations. The attitude of entitlement – so clearly displayed on the news every day – indicates that things are vastly different these days than they were decades ago.

      I would like to see data from similar studies done much more recently.

    18. Brian says:

      “Share!”. “Be reasonable and share!”. “As a community, we have to provide for the kids in the neighborhood”. You’ll hear this. The problem is that yourself, your spouse, and your kids are first. Your extended family (parents, siblings and their kids and grandkids). are next. At this point, you have exhausted your capacity to help your neighbors with food and other supplies. Cooperating with my neighbors in other ways is something I am open to. Some of my preps are for that very reason. The problem is that some people have very unrealistic expectations about how much help you should give them. I’ve been watching Venezuela and I definitely don’t like what I’m seeing.

      • grandee says:

        Venezuela is a good case study.

        When I try to use Katrina or Venezuela as an illustration, every single person I’ve talked to says Venezuela will never happen here. And the next Katrina will be handled better.

        Superstorm Sandy?

        Amazing. I can’t get thru even with really good examples.

        • Anonymous5 says:

          It’s called “Terminal Normalcy Bias”.

          I have a friend who thinks that the United States can’t go down because the rest of the world is so dependent upon the US economy remaining stable. So he thinks they’ll just keep propping it up. He thinks TPTB won’t let it fail because of that.

          I keep trying to explain that the ultimate destruction of the economy, SHTF and the subsequent culling of the population is EXACTLY what they are trying to accomplish. Whether they accomplish it through economic collapse, war, disease or grid down really doesn’t matter. (They may do all of the above), but the intent is the same……eliminate about 9/10’s of the world’s population. It is a religion to the globalists.

          Places like Venezuela are simply trial runs.

      • Arby5 says:

        Hey Brian,

        Some of our friends and neighbors have small children. We have talked to them about just getting some groceries and supplies on hand in case of storms and power outages etc. They say they hardly have money to pay their cell phone payments and the electric bill etc etc.

        To me it will be hard to see those kids suffer because their parents are so stupid.I mean really, they literally do not even have an extra bag of sugar in the house.

      • The Deplorable Braveheart says:

        Brian, spot on. Myself and mine come first. I don’t have any obligations to anyone else. If you didn’t prep, then tough titty.

      • DeplorableBitterClinger says:

        When you hear ‘For the children!’, look out. Robbery will ensue.

    19. Sierra Dave says:

      I’m sure that there will be groups of people who band together. Sadly they will die a slow death as they wait for crops to grow. Learning the hard way, how long food takes to reach maturity.

    20. For your own safety and the safety of your loved ones, you must purge the scum as soon as things start to really go south. If you don’t, you may not live to regret it.

    21. Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy turned New Orleans and New York’s lower East side into nightmares. The 2011 England UK Riots. The L.A. Riots, I remember Korean-Americans on the roofs of their businesses with AR/AK’s defending their lives and property. Commonality, a large and violent minority of blacks with impulse control issues. Despite welfare, medicaid, section 8 housing, midnight basketball and affirmative action.
      Look at the prison populations, those are the demographics for non-cohesion and civil discord during a collapse, probabilities and generalities do apply. Loosely. Be active in your community and you will get to know by experience or reputation, who and where the miscreants will be. How do we create brotherhoods that cross boundaries like this? Age old biblical question. https://www.facebook.com/162882273805343/videos/1395857090507849/
      South Africa, roving bands of Impulsive, inter-temporal bad choice making animals vs a higher functioning and disciplined human. Slate would mislead you purposely and purposefully to suit their (((Agenda))).

    22. Faux Liberte' says:

      “If you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.” – J. K. Rowling

      We go through all these extraneous steps to prepare by stacking and learning skills and yet, we forget to prepare our minds, to know the kind of person we really are.

      In the military, the reason for boot camp was to induce a highly stressful environment, both physical and mental, upon each member and to see if he or she could think and behave under pressure doing various tasks.

      Then you would attend additional training specific to your desired trade.

      Special forces and Seal training ratchet the boot camp experience up several notches. Only the calm, even tempered and cooperative made it through. It was all business for those guys, no room for Hollywood and lone wolf BS types.

      Let me repeat: Only the calm, even tempered and COOPERATIVE made it through. (Note: Emphasis on cooperative, AKA Team work).

      That means when the streets are full of jobless, disenfranchised wanderers forced from their homes for any number of reasons. How are you going to handle it?

    23. Old Guy says:

      As time passes each decade the people become less shameless. used to be having a child out of wedlock was embarrassing to say the least. Now the bastard child is just another fashion accessory. There is not evnen any shame if the child is messeginated. The examples in the article are from another time. Things are much different today. More folks from other places who have a different culture and moral compass. Where I live I am concerned about the liberal holy roller types who think others have a moral duty to share and enable them. Since my religious views differ from theirs They will believe Im fair game. They wouldn’t hesitate to try and confinscate and redistribute my stuff. My moral core concept is I will take care of me and mine and not bother anyone else. however I would consider anyone who thinks I have even a moral obgligation to share my stuff a enemy who cannot be tolerated. Remember this Noah didn’t let everyone aboard the ark. Prepare for a (YOYO) You are on your own stone age existence for a year. It would be at least a year before you could even start to grow crops and even attempt a 1800,s lifestyle. The author got it wrong society will unravel very quickly. Look at what many libs are doing simply because Trump is President.

      • Concerned-Citizen! says:

        I completely agree. Let’s be very point-blank honest here guys: The blacks and other non-whites will go completely crazy 2 seconds after it all “hits the fan”, there is no doubt of that in my mind. We have witnessed this on the news in this very country, happening very recently. The Baltimore RIOTS of just what 2 years ago, those savages carrying so much stuff, that it was falling out of their hands or baskets. I live in the awful State of MD, so I know damn well what those sub-humans will do. And people ask why I like to have so much ammo, guns, etc, etc. Think about it friends – and be painfully honest with yourselves if you want to live.

        • Neal Jensen says:

          there is not a single physical item (aside from food medicine (in applicable) fuel (even fuel is “can do without”) clean water or ammo/guns/other projectile weapon) that is worth losing your life over in a SHTF scenario. No number of TVs or couches or microwaves or stereos or territory will mean anything. If you are prepped with your basic necessities there is nothing else in the current world that is useful or worth dying for than those things you absolutely need to survive. These rest is all comforts. If your prep is centered around food shelter and water, nothing else is worth dying for or dealing with the amoral law breaking and riotous murderous crowds or individuals. Take em out at a distance if need be.

          Stand off range is more important than anything else I mentioned, unless you have your threating party boxed in and unable to be effective.

          Stand off range gives you time and options.

        • Anonymous says:

          Anyone who writes such stupid comments as you do, concerned citizen, shows that YOU are the inferior one!! You are a lowly evolved individual who has not caught up with the rest of society.. MOST people REALIZE that one’s character, IQ, conscience, etc is NOT based on the color of one’s skin, but rather their upbringing and genes… YOU are the inferior ape!!
          –American Indian

        • The Deplorable Braveheart says:

          C-C, I couldn’t agree more. I live in Memphis so I know exactly where you’re coming from. I’ve already been victimized a few times by those sub-humans.

          • Old Guy says:

            The newly built mall of Memphis closed down because the paying buying customers where countinually mugged and wouldn’t shop there anymore. Only the shoplifters and no goods remained. And we all know what race caused a almost new mall to become abandoned and eventually torn down.

      • Faux Liberte' says:

        I tend to believe that the good book is not about real persons but more of metaphoric parables based on facts. Noah represents a decent, level head man whom prepped and sheltered his family and those he could trust from the rath of an unjust society in midst of a collapse. His purpose was about preservation of what was just and good, which outweighed all the wrongs he had to impose in order to obtain those goals. Thus the times demanded such actions.

        I believe that there are other examples of “Noah” from other religions which describe the same scenario. Because a good story is much easier to win an audience and remember.

        I would also hazard a guess that the real people in the times of Noah were just as advanced, or more so as ourselves, but also just victims of their own ignorance and a story like Noah is a constant reminder, whose original purpose has been lost.

        We could argue the validity of ancient text, but we have to know that their message is a hard truth. So, whether you, I or others believe in Noah or not, we cannot ignore his actions given the scenario. We can all be like Noah and live.

        Do we see examples of that story in our own dealings?

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          I marvel at the story of Noah and the ark.

          It really came down to a genetic war between good and evil. The idea that the fallen came down from heaven and bred with, or modified the genome of man is incredible. Did Moses have a knowledge of Genetics? Noah wasn’t saved because he was good or holier than thou, but because he was perfect in his generations i.e. genetically pure back to the garden.

          The bible teaches that the world will be as it was in the days of Noah. Interesting that the reference is not to any other time of judgement, or changing of the ages like the Tower of Babel, Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden, or the Exodus. It refers to a time of correction to the human genome.

          Modern medicine has reduced the infant mortality rate to incredibly low levels. The worlds population is exploding among amoral woman who can’t say no, who hook up with predatory amoral men who seek them out. I think this is definitely causing a genetic shift in societal behavior.

          An aspect of an Armageddon style judgement is the genetic purging of the forces of evil that gather for the battle. At the battle it is said that the blood of men will be as deep as a horses bridle! I suggest people who have young men and women of fighting age, consider plans to hide them from a government intent on joining in that battle against GOD.

      • Waiting says:

        In the situation of Noah and the ark, the Bible states that Jehovah God closed the door to the ark. This was probably done because when the water from the flood rose the other people would panic and beat at the door of the ark begging to be let in. God knowing Noah was a good man, and would be tempted to open the door, so God sealed the door. As for planting food it would depend on what season you were in when the SHTF as to how long before you could harvest crops. My dad used to say the only thing ST. Patrick’s Day was good for was to plant potatoes. St. Patrick’s Day comes in March; the potatoes would be ready to dig in September/October.(depends on what kind of potato you’re planting. Some take alot less time than this. So you can have potatoes in three to five months if the SHTF at the right time. Tomatoes from seed 6-8 weeks for a plant; from planting the seedling 45-80 days to harvest.(again depends on which tomato you’re planting. Plant Jerusalem Artichokes now, it’s not too late. They spread themselves rapidly and need no care. Harvest in fall, cook like potatoes. The Jerusalem Artichoke look somewhat like a sunflower above ground, and you dig them in the fall. Make hardtack and pemmican and store. There’s a lot of wild plants to eat: dandelions, lamb’s quarter, poke(you must know how to cook poke, because it is poisonous if not cooked correctly), Wild onions, wild carrots, wild strawberries, opossum grapes, persimmons ,etc. I don’t know how to identify mushrooms so I leave this one alone, too dangerous. Go to your local bookstore and buy a book to identify the different wild edible plants in your area. Of course you don’t want your food sources known to others who would steal and decimate your crops. Remember the plane crash in the Andes, and the people became cannibals eating the dead bodies for food. This will surely happen in a SHTF moment; even killing people to eat for food. Desperate times call for desperate measures. You cannot put anything past anyone in these kinds of situations. Waiting

      • Kevin2 says:

        Despite the ostensible justifications for much of the civil disturbances that the underclass disproportionately starts it ends up losing whatever moral purpose and rapidly become from 2.5 decades ago, “I’m stealing this TV set in the name of Rodney King”.

        Cime is low in the civilized communities because they’re civilized. Its not that they don’t steal because they might get caught, they don’t steal because they just don’t steal. When the physical presence of Law Enforcement is the reason why crime is not occurring you have a dangerous area.

      • Again the article was quite useless. Nothing new. The comments give far more usable info or things to ponder.

    24. Hanko says:

      Too much hate in this country to even hope for civilized actions, especially with the muslims,bloflakes,libturds,blacks,illegals & the losers called antifa! We MUST stand our ground & do what we know we must do, & that is to purge all maggot munching scum & losers before they purge us!! Be ready to kill or be killed!

      • Hank, you left out the drug addicts ? Millions of them as well in USA today and they will go whack as well ! I am NOT an advocate of killing except in self defense. But there are a few special maniacs out there. Child molesters, rapist, known political criminals and other criminals that deserve killing. That is just a simple fact.

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          There is a genetic predisposition to addiction for about ten percent of the population. The current opioid epidemic is now killing more people than car accidents which used to be the number one killer of people under 40.

          I knew a guy who went to Africa in the peace corps. His idealism was dashed as he watched people in a village dying from dirty water, while the able bodied men chose to get high on cot, or wine and spend their days sleeping or trying to get laid, instead of digging a simple well that could make them all healthier and the village prosper. The ones with AIDS hid the fact and still hustled the young women for sex even though they knew they would infect and ultimately kill them too.

          • There is no such thing as a genetic predisposition to anything except very few physical things like ear lobes and hair color. You have been mind fucked with gov fake science bullshit ! Genetics is no where near as significant as we have been told by the supposed scientist. Not at all unlike every issue of health to include the many pharmaceuticals pushed on the public deliberately that harm or kill them. Until we all break away from the lies and control mechanisms you will never have any real knowledge or understanding of much of anything important in your life.

            Just as there is no proof that black holes exist or can any human on this planet explain to you what gravity actually is ? Yet many believe these are cast in stone and they are in fact only hypothesis that are NOT proven at all. This shows how easily we will accept what we are told by supposed science !

            • Plan twice, prep once says:

              There is a wonderful genetic experiment done by a Russian researcher at a Fox fur farm.

              If you try to touch a wild baby fox, they will most likely freak out and bite you at almost any age. This researcher took the baby fox that were most amenable to handling by humans. They were bred and the most amenable to human handling of their offspring were separated and bred.

              The experiment was recreated three times and the same result each time. In seven generations they always created a strain that were as tame as the common family dog and they they always developed certain common physical characteristics that are also common to domesticated dogs.

              The researcher believed they could create a tame strain, but were surprised by the parallel common physical attributes that always paralleled the psychological changes.

              If you don’t think an aspect of human behavior is genetic, good or bad, please visit Haiti to see the worst. Assuming you survive your visit, you might gain a different view.

              • My point still stands. Yes some issues it is relevant and many not.

                And if the experiment created tame foxes, would that not completely destroy the species ? Foxes are not supposed to be tame to humans. Humans destroy everything they touch including tame foxes.

                And I do not need to visit Haiti as I already know what is real and what is not. And the genetic thing is not as omnipotent as we are told, not even close. There is far better way to think and live !

    25. Logicrazy says:

      The longer a crisis lasts the darker it will become. Once it gets to the point of cannibalism, I will wear a grenade necklace.

    26. Smokey says:

      Let’s be realistic. The instinct to pull together and survive is going to come out on top. The bad guys will last about two weeks. If you want to factor in this Moral Decay and all past 50 years, add another few weeks.

      The instinct to form a viable community also includes the instinct to form units and defend it.

      • Old Guy says:

        yep that pull together plan really worked for Bundy. It worked for finnicun. it worked for the branch davidians. how long did Jeffery damiler or wayne gacy last all by themselves? Its those who you pull together with who you will be in the most danger from. and its easier to track a pack of wolves than a single lone wolf. many killers from the past lasted much longer than two weeks. many lasted decades. guys like Tom Horn and Wes Hardin bounty hunter JB Call was a loner patient stalker and a good shot with his rifle. He lived until he dies of natural causes. And he made his living hunting killers many of whom where in bands who pulled together. and those pulling together killers when times got lean turned on each other. you have seen it in the movies. Two bad guys are fleeing and one guys horse goes lame. Then one bad guy kills the other rather than ride double. After the North field minnisota failed bank heist. Jessie James horse was shot. They stopped and it was obvious Jessies horse was done for. Cole Younger was in a bad way his bottom jaw shot almost off. Jessie set him by a tree and took Coles horse. I believe in DTA. Don’t Trust Anyone. There are close Relatives of ours that If it was a SHTF WROL I would not hesitate to kill them. Why don’t you test those you plan to band together with. Give them your Debit card and PIN number? There was a crusader who was leaving for battle. So he gave the keys to his wife & daughter’s chasity belts to his most trusted man. A few miles from the castle that man came running up out of breath he exclaimed you gave me the wrong keys!

      • the blame-e says:

        Well, that explains all these African warlords running things in places like Darfur. And what about how “modern” Russia is run along the lines of . . . say . . . the Mafia. And what about all those millions upon millions killed in Nazi Concentration Camps. And the 12-million Russians murdered by Stalin. Sorry to hit Russia twice. But, yep. Yes, sir. The very flowers of humanity. Civilization is a beautiful thing.

      • DeplorableBitterClinger says:

        The predators will also end up finding themselves hunted.

      • “Let’s be realistic. The instinct to pull together and survive is going to come out on top. The bad guys will last about two weeks”

        If this at all true then why did Ferguson and Baltimore and Chicago ongoing happen and still happening in spades ? And nothing has melted down completely yet ? I think you are being very naive and not seeing the had writing on the wall right in front of us daily ! I agree things will find their own level eventually but that is gonna take a very long time to thin out the culls. The good news is many will kill themselves and each other.

    27. Concerned-Citizen! says:

      And this is what we are dealing with RIGHT NOW:

      A New York City judge is under fire after freeing without bail a man police say tried to steal an officer’s gun–just days after the assassination of a Bronx cop.

      Cops say Kurdel Emmanuel, a mentally-troubled 29-year-old man, tried Saturday to wrestle the gun from a female officer who fought him off in a Brooklyn precinct house.

      WNBC-TV reported that when Emmanuel was interviewed after his arrest he told police he wanted to kill a cop.

      On Sunday, Emmanuel appeared before Brooklyn Judge Loren Baily-Schiffman on assault, attempted robbery and attempted criminal possession of a weapon charges.

      Prosecutors requested a $250,000 bond. Instead, Baily-Schiffman released him on his own recognizance.

      Her decision outraged police union leaders, according to reports.

      They pointed out that Bronx officer Miosotis Familia was killed in an ambush Wednesday. The gunman was another mentally troubled man who said he wanted to go after cops. That man Alexander Bonds was killed fleeing the shooting.

      “This is a sickening display of carelessness or callousness by a judge who should be fully aware of the similarity in the circumstances between this thug’s crime and the assassination of police officer Miosotis Familia,” Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association president Patrick Lynch, said, according to WPIX-TV. “We have seen too often the unbalanced act out against NYC police officers with deadly effect.”

      Ed Mullins, who represents NYPD sergeants, told the New York Post that Emmanuel would have “killed police officers” if he managed to wrest the gun away from the officer.

      Emmanuel was home with his stepmother Sunday after the arraignment, the paper reported.

      “He has mental-health issues,” the woman said, according to the paper. “The problem you have is you have someone who is not well, and you can still get conflicting stories.”

      The judge declined comment to WNBC and hung up on a Post reporter.

      It wasn’t clear why Baily-Schiffman was handling criminal arraignments.

      She normally hears lawsuits not criminal matters, according to NYC Office of Court Administration records.

      She is now listed as an acting Supreme Court Justice but for many years was on the bench in civil court where legal disputes involving less than $25,000 are heard.

    28. Race:

      Race is the elephant in the room. In polite society we don’t discuss it at all, or if we do, it is spoken in the politically correct manner of the area you live.

      During Katrina in New Orleans, the wealthy (((j..ish))) community employed security from their Middle East homeland.

      Poor blacks drowned because many never learned to swim. Blacks were raping, looting, and getting shot left and right. But, many more blacks patiently put up with inhuman conditions, acted bravely, and so forth.

      What happens in areas where twenty different racial and ethnic groups are already competing, and tensions are already near the breaking point. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that the differences in race will blow up into full on murder and mayhem.

      Those who can get themselves into communities with their own kind will fare better if there is a disaster. Common customs and traditions are more important during bad times.

      The English pulled together during the blitz because they were all Englishmen, sharing the same humor that escapes the average American. Imagine how well England would do today now that they are invaded by Muslims and Somali “refugees”.

      __

      • Old Guy says:

        B your correct the different races will not live in harmony. At this very moment white familys are being massacared in south Africa. I think the different religions will be in conflict also. You never can exterminate every enemy. Its like trying to kill every mosquito or fly. So you use mosquito netting. I raise bantam chickens. The predator animals are always looking for a meal. I cannot kill every opossum-skunk – Racoon ect. So I fasten them up in a varmit proof coop every nite. Yet there are always a few little hens who lay a hidden clutch of eggs and set on them. outside of the coop unprotected from predators. And most times they all by their lonesome manage to hatch a clutch of chicks. The farther we can remove ourselves from potential danger the better our chances of surviving any type of SHTF situation.

      • Justice says:

        Very well said, B from CA.

      • Drunkenwhitedevil says:

        Spot on B from CA!!

    29. KY Mom says:

      The World’s Biggest Bear Calls It: “We Have Finally Hit The Peak Of The Cycle”

      “In a world which is only used to credit expansion and has forgotten all thoughts of business cycles, this new tough Fed is unthinkable. However to my mind, we have finally globally hit the peak of the cycle. A peak we hit in 1979, 1989, 1999, 2008 and now. Can you see it?” – Crispin Odey

      ht tp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-10/worlds-biggest-bear-calls-it-we-have-finally-hit-peak-cycle

    30. the blame-e says:

      “They’re only as good as the world allows them to be. I’ll show you, when the chips are down, these… these civilized people? They’ll eat each other.” — The Joker.

    31. Brian says:

      Lectins, phytates, and enzyme inhibitors are biochemical compounds contained in plants. They are anti-nutrients that prevent any predator from getting the nutrition that are in the plants and they screw up your digestive tract. If your preps include a lot of nuts, seeds(for eating), grains, and beans(dry), you should research these words. You should do so especially if you have Irritable Bowel Syndrome. It will explain why you soak and possibly dehydrate these foods. Worth doing!

    32. Ron Ahrens says:

      If you have a shovel and are standing on earth with organic matter, underneath your feet is all the food you need to survive and it is ENDLESS and PLENTIFUL….they are called earthworms, and they average 7 grams of protein per worm plus fat, which is all the nutrition you need to survive…PROTEIN and FAT, so if you starve with a shovel nearby and earthworms all around you or result to cannibalism, you are simply a programmed dumbed down toxic dump New Babylonian coward, who is too stupid and evil to survive.

    33. Bill says:

      Using England during the WW II era is not an appropriate reference here. First of all, the threat was from without, not within, they all had a common enemy. Secondly, it was a cohesive and homogeneous nation of tradition, customs, culture, and morality. Thirdly, society was not spoiled, they were accustomed to work and hardships; therefore saw things in their proper perspective. Even with the war going on they still maintained as much normal life as possible. The same for the US.
      The most casual observation today will plainly show everything in different. These factors are all but gone, and by design. TPTB, politicians, officialdom, and other special interest groups have been doing their utmost damndest over the past 50 plus years to fracture society (divide and conquer). When hurricane Isabel came through my area back in ’03 the power was out for 12 days, we had a big spike in theft, vandalism, looting, break-ins, and so on. I watched first-hand women taking their kids into stores to help steal, and then steal from each other and fight if someone had something the other did not.
      During the Depression half the population were farmers or had gardens; today 1% feed the 99%. The vast majority of people today have absolutely no idea what it takes to grow food. Also, today, large parts of our society have an entitlement mentality. Many believe they deserve everything they want or need without any effort, in fact even owed to them, and have the right to take it from someone else. Only a tiny fraction are truly self-sufficient (not talking about people who live out in the wilderness, rather those who are resourcesful and possess a variety of skills), even most wealthy heavily depend on the modern infrastructure of distribution, financial systems, law enforcement, medical, and so on.
      Society is more prone to violence today, and is far less moral. Look at all the shootings and killings in the cities. Many areas are literally third-world environments. If/when TSHTF you will see hordes fanning out from the cities across the countryside. I can tell you based on my life experiences if an event occurs things will get really bad really quick.
      If society is so cohesive today why are fema holding facilities being constructed. Why has various secret laws been passed and executive orders in place to control the population, common moral standards, decency and civility used to do that. Only the naive would believe as a nation we’d all pull together in a crisis, that will occur only locally.
      Another big difference, today all levels of gov’t are suffocating in debt, the well is dry, they will not be able to assist as before, rather they will be coming to you to see what you have that they can take and use. Remember, gov’t is always primarily concerned about its survival, and will do that which ensures its survival first at the expense of everything else.

    34. Frank Thoughts says:

      In a word, rape. Rape is what happens. We have never had such a divided society – race, ethnicity, religion etc.. You think in a disaster people are going to come together and play nice? It has never happened in human history with such divisions and it does not happen in other parts of the world where there is shtf and division (think of the Middle East, Africa etc.).

      The first thing that happens is that the alpha males, or the scum males, get together and make their pick of the females. Some they keep, the rest, they rape. Look at ISIS, look at Sri Lanka, look at WWII, Africa etc. This is the one thing most of today’s women cannot grasp or understand. They think the police will be able to stop it.

      The day a crack group of diesel lesbians abseil out of a helicopter and lay waste to some rapist Muslims, will be the day I change my view. But until then, the world is the way it is.

    35. Brian says:

      When the going gets tough, the tough grab their guns and head for the bugout location or at least the basement!

    36. Neal Jensen says:

      “And there are countless examples of people being altruistic and coming together during disasters; perhaps even more so than examples of people turning on each other.

      Oh really< show me ONE disaster Zone where this altruism survived more than a 24 hours….Every single disaster zone it reverts to SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST within a couple days if not less time. The cameras don't report it, and the survivors wont ever tell you the truth because then they have to confront their own consciences…Again, people DO NOT understand human psychology because when times are good we don't ever think about it, but let the times turn a darker corner…Altruism flees the disaster faster than the fastest coward.

    37. Anonymous says:

      Years ago, I read that according to sociologists, people DO tend to pull together in the beginning of a disaster– they help each other and cooperate in trying to resolve the dilemma.

      However, that only lasts a few days. After a few days, when there is no remittance, when there is no relief and they are starving, then animal instinct kicks in. Man’s greatest instinct is to survive. And that’s what they do– its every man for himself and they do whatever they need to in order to survive. Also, after a few days of no relief, young men– teenagers and young adults– tend to form gangs and rape and pillage, wherever they can…

      • Waiting says:

        It has been mentioned here in several posts that rape happens when people are in a survival mode from some catastrophe that has taken place. I cannot see how this action would be part of survival mode. I believe this just shows the person’s true evil character, and they know they can get away with it in this particular situation. If I’m trying to survive, believe me sex would be the last thing on my mind. Rape has nothing what so ever to do with survival. Waiting

        • Beaumont says:

          I do generally believe in mankind’s “true evil character, and they know they can get away with it in this particular situation.”

          Also, yes, the sex drive leaves a sick, dying, or elderly person.

          But, it’s one of the last things to go.

      • Sierra Dave says:

        Lasts long enough to get intel on every one else! 😛

      • Frank Thoughts says:

        It is how we are wired. Young men are fit, horny and need to sow their seeds. It is a biological programming and even the nicest young men will struggle to fight it. After a period of time, if there is no restoration of normality, then they will need to sow their seeds. And that means any women of any age is in the firing line.

        In WWII, this meant very young and old women were raped over and over again. Along with hunger and disease, rape is just par the course in a shtf.

        • Anticommie says:

          There is no lust during starvation. The russians are animals like some african races. They had plenty to eat once they started moving west. They were also recommended to rape german women. Japs are also atheists.

        • Waiting says:

          American soldiers were not raping women during WWII. My father was on front lines 3 years without raping anyone. That’s BS, you can control yourself. If I see some man raping someone I guarantee my dark side will come out and I WILL shoot him. Don’t need these types of sub-humans taking advantage of the weaker person. Dead man in my book and doesn’t deserve to live. Waiting

    38. Cyberrifles says:

      Check out the movie available from Amazon Armageddon. It was on the History Channel years ago.

    39. RGR 777 says:

      Look I care what color your skin is … I do not want to raise their kids or by them food… or pay for their house … take care of yourself or take responsibility for your life … live a productive and righteous life with meaning or just die… no one is going to miss your sorry ass …no work no eat.

    40. Old Guy says:

      RGR that’s what needs to happen the more folks that become self reliant & productive the better off the whole of society will become. The trouble is the takers are never satisfied anytime they perceive that someone else has more than they do. They cry Fair Share. Never mind that most of the time that person who has more than them worked and saved and did without to obtain their perceived bounty. Make America Great Again is a wonderful slogan. However its never going to happen until there is a great majority of responsible self reliant makers with the necessary know how. Those who will not and cannot no matter who or what they are must be culled. I raise animals and If I didn’t take a hard line and quit culling the poor producers I would be broke in a short time. Same with my woodlands I cull the bad trees so the better desirable trees grow bigger faster.

    41. TEST says:

      World’s 2nd Largest Primary Silver Mine Shuts Down

      So… time to sell more paper and drive the price of AG to 10 bucks I guess…

      https://www.marketslant.com/article/taho-silver-shuts-worlds-2nd-largest-mine-srsrocco-analysis

    42. boopsiegirl says:

      a collapse situation will allow for a cleansing of society, there is no need for over 300 million people in this country.

    43. Brian says:

      I live on a pension and food preps have a very limited life. They have to be eaten or replaced. In my house, vegetables that are bad go into compost. I do have some freeze dried but that is expensive. I have thought about the community. I have an abundance of water processing supplies, materials for polytunnel gardening, supplies for growing seedlings, two by four boards & hardware for bracing 40 or more front doors. I even made over fifty solar ovens out of cardboard and aluminum foil. My basement is full of such preps. I’ve never spoken about SHTF and prepping with my neighbors, partly to keep from being labelled a nut and partly to avoid being a target in SHTF. I probably am one of the “poor” in suburbia but I have given up a lot to get as prepped as possible. Food is the sticking point.

    44. Fr. Chuck says:

      M+ Viet Nam-1969 More wounded were arriving at the Evac Station. I immediately went there. Six stretchers were lined up…2 white, 4 black soldiers. I spoke to each of them…they knew me. Standing at one stretcher, the white soldier had tears, looking at the others and saying “My buddies are hurt, they need me, my buddies are hurt.”
      Fr. Chuck, Army Airborne Catholic Chaplain

    45. Traitor Hator says:

      People will form alliances and help each other . Until there’s one sandwich left on the table.

    46. Never assume your neighbors are unprepared, it’s possible that their opsec is strong. My neighbors all have firearms and preps but we live out in the sticks so you need extra stuff for so you don’t have to drive an hour to go to grocery store,however my neighbors all 5 of them have no idea how well prepared I am. For all they know I’m just a competition shooter or a typical texas gun nut. I know what I’ve got but I never discount the amount of prep neighbors may have hidden

    47. Beaumont says:

      I don’t believe that some provocateur, milestone event, or trigger are necessary, in order to create so many divisions, in society; contention and strife are part of human nature.

      Some people are using race and familiarity as an excuse. You do it to your own families and in-groups.

      Normal, everyday people are criminals, by default. It’s ordinary and what most people do, on a good day. The “bad” ones, in your story just saw an opportunity.

      Either, you have reason, based on personal experience, to believe that someone is exceptional, or you don’t. Easy as that.

    48. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      Observation is reality.

      People will not be coming together and helping each other once the food and water supply has cut off. This aint the 1800’s where food and clean water is all over the place and you can drink from a stream. Look at the difference in ww2. Now look at the completely different terrain. In Houston Tx for example, no banding together wont be taking place. It may happen in pre- dominantly white areas, and the same for other minorities, etc and now the over population situation of cities that are 9 meals from starvation, I got news for Fritz, this ain’t the 1940’s, it will be a lot worse, so bad, so horrific and women get raped and massacred to extension, levels, because everyone including the criminals have guns, and the new preppers, this is category of non preppers, the people who laughed at us, as they attack, raid, rape murder their way in all the major cities, as my scientist friend laughed his ass off telling us, how attractive women instantly become prep and food diggers throwing themselves at men for protection, and the stupid ones who have it made, you know the ones guys, who divorced the husband, took the kids, moved into the house while the husband suffered financial ass rape from the courts. These women with kids will be avoided by preppers, and prey and left overs for the US army and foreign armies to prey on and yes people our own military will be attacking women from the population, and for those of you who think that this wont be happening, think again, IT WILL HAPPPEN. The civilian men, etc, they will do the same. The beta test in the 2nd world country proved that Fritz is old school, and that was the 1940’s. This says my friend will be a literally hell on earth, and the people, especially women without men, and children of these stupid irresponsible gold digger type women will pay the ultimate price. The best way to handle this is to go out into the desert out in the middle of nowhere, because it too far to them to waste time. But because of AI, and satellites, and if you have women and girls running around outside, then the government will send the military out to kill us men and take the women and girls. So since this is how things work in the real world, you can see that I am 100% on the money.

      HCKS.

    49. linda says:

      Sociologist Charles Fritz seems to forget that while people of different socio-economic helped each other during the blitz; that on the whole the folks in Great England were as a whole a very civilized bunch. What we have now are people of vastly different ideologies and experiences , some of whom, who are less civilized living among us now. Also, God has taken second place to technology; not to mention that society is less civil. We’re regressing and becoming more insular.

    50. Brian says:

      Maybe the first day or two days sets the tone for a given neighborhood. Digging latrines, setting up water processing, etc. It depends on the people involved. It really is hard to be sure for a given neighborhood what the best approach. It can all go south very quickly!

    51. linda says:

      The writer here needs to understand that sophisticated, we are NOT.

    52. anthony barbuto says:

      i don’t think you all get it….It is over…The USA was called ” the great experiment”….in government. It only took 300 years for USA to become the classed society that USA came from, England. Our fore fathers had to escape England because of the injustices. If you were of the Aristocracy class, you could do anything….and you profited over the suffering serfs. Religion, who became corrupt due to pagan influence, preferred power over serving man…so they sided with the aristocracy. The serfs and the very small middle class realized there had to be something better, so they created the USA…Unfortunately, we have the 1%ers who are now the aristocracy in USA…The middle class is doomed and the poor are easily manipulated…just give them welfare, an Obabma-phone…etc…promise of free this and free that.
      So, the experiment failed and usa is doomed. When the collapse comes…soon…very soon…there will be nothing left to rebuild. Serfs may be able to get close to the 1%ers bunkers and work for them…just like the Middle Ages all over again. Prepping just keeps your options open a little longer…but eventually you must remember to keep a bullet for all members of your family…then save the last bullet… for your self…or become a serf.

    53. Boomboy says:

      The Japanese are natural preppers because they are regularly hit by natural disasters. But, when the SHTF in Japan, the Japanese don’t fall into a state of chaos. Rather, volunteers flow in from all parts of the country, people GET TOGETHER and FIX the problem. The problem in places like Europe and North America is that they are multi-cultural and there is no social bonding or cohesion. When disaster hits you end up with warring tribes. In Japan there is largely ONE TRIBE with a few ‘guests’ call foreigners. The latter will normally ‘go with the flow’ and join in with the Japanese MAJORITY and just fix the problems. It took about a year to clean up the tsunami hit regions of Tohoku. The Fukushima mess however is somewhat beyond their abilities to contain. Nonetheless, there is a lot the West can learn from Japan. The first step is to control immigration as they do and ensure that the MAJORITY is ONE TRIBE. Under those conditions the response to disasters, human and natural, may tend to be more integrated, focused, and harmonious, built on TRUST and love of one’s people.

    54. Christian Gains says:

      Moral & Ethical PRINCIPLES are the strongest cords to UNITY.

      The 10 Commandments, AND the Counsels of Yeshua to HIS Disciples are the BEST foundations FOR the UNITY you desire!

      The Bible, in general, is the MOST POWERFUL influence upon a Society, (to do RIGHT rather than WRONG), that has yet existed.

      It is imperative that these 3 “CORDS”, on the FOUNDATION of the Bible, be developed EARLY ON, (as with the EARLY Colonies in N. America).

      It has been my experience that the EARLY DEVELOPMENT of a “STANDARD OF LIVING”, and the RULES to establish it, is EXTREMELY important to the maintaining of true MORAL & ETHICAL STANDARDS among the community members.

      Also, that quick punishment, (properly applied, and proportionate to the crime), be administered.

      I have LIVED in,(not simply visited), 8 different Countries, in 3 different Cultures, and the above methods of maintaining a well balanced & righteous Community mentality has depended upon these PRINCIPLES; as well as the development of GENUINELY GOOD & CAPABLE LEADERSHIP…(Which IS the HARDEST factor to develop)!

      The degradation of the VALUES of COMMUNITY & UNITY, that has occurred over the last +-70 years is a HUGE NEGATIVE factor in accomplishing the above goals.

      As WELL as the HORRENDOUS establishment of HATRED, VARIANCE & STRIFE, (ALL founded upon SELF-INTERESTS, above the best interests of the greater community)!

      These attitudes must be reversed…OR…AVOIDED like a PLAGUE, (because, THAT is EXACTLY what such attitudes gender, a PLAGUE of divisions & social death).

      “Choose thy friends WISELY, AND, choose thy enemies even MORE wisely!”, is wise counsel. As are the PROVERBS of the Scriptures!

      AND! There is one other matter that needs attention: PHYSICAL SECURITY & PROTECTION.

      Unfortunately, it IS nearly IMPOSSIBLE to establish the Social standards & community unity that I’ve described above, WITHOUT having a PROPER & BALANCED understanding, AND, well developed standard, of PHYSICAL SECURITY MATTERS…Which means “LAW & ORDER”…Which is, generally speaking, ALMOST ALWAYS through the PROPER USE of BOTH LAW and FIREARMS.

      Simply put, there MUST BE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS; AND Judges.

      And then, there MUST BE a REASONED APPROACH towards ANY form of punishment, (which Also means that there MUST ALSO BE an acceptance of the “RULES of LIVING” in the Community).

      SO!
      FIRST: The COMMUNITY RULES must be determined. (Hopefully there won’t be need for many…just the most obvious: Lying, cheating, thieving, assault, Sexual assault, perversions, AND! The breaking of the PRINCIPLE RULE of the “COMMON LAW”: “I will do everything I say I will do, and I will NOT infringe upon the rights of others”.

      SECOND: The punishment for breaking EACH specific RULE, MUST be
      CAREFULLY DETERMINED AND! PROPORTIONATELY ADMINISTERED.

      THIRD: There MUST BE TRUSTworthy LEO’s. Preferably WELL TRAINED in their duties, & tested, BEFORE they begin their duties.

      The SERIOUS INFRINGEMENTS ON GOOD & RIGHT that we’re discussing here, are best avoided by a Community, (through an ORDERED & LAW ABIDING Citizenry)…Which comes from following the PRINCIPLES enumerated above…

      I KNOW IT WILL, because I’v seen communities, ESTABLISHED & fully developed, and running smoothly several times in my life!

      From Hippie communes, to Jesus People Communities, to a foreign community, established by foreigners, within a Foreign Country!

      Hope this is helpful! btw I’m NOT a robot! LOL!

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