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    The Coming Destruction of U.S. Pensions

    Mac Slavo
    June 29th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (151)
    Read by 1,061 people

    “We wanted to know how much money we owe our retirees, and how much of that money we don’t have.”
    -Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas (June 22, 2011)

    We know the Federal and State governments are in serious fiscal trouble. Having overspent and over borrowed, they are now faced with the real prospect of having to reduce jobs, spending programs and retirement related benefits.

    But the States and the Federal government are not alone.

    During the boom times of entitlement spending and government largess leading up to the financial crisis, local governments that include cities and counties spent their share of forward earnings as well. And now those uncontrolled fiscal policies are coming home to roost.

    For those Americans who have worked for decades with the hopes that their pensions, health care and other benefits would be there when they retire, we offer a glimpse into what the future may hold:

    Cook County taxpayers are on the hook for a staggering amount of local debt, according to figures presented by Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas today. Cook County’s numerous local governments face mounting debts totaling more than $108 billion. And, for the first time, specific figures have been collected for municipal unfunded pensions obligations totaling in excess of $25 billion, almost a quarter of debt countywide. The total figures translate into an average debt-per-household in the city of Chicago of $63,525, and $32,901 in the suburbs.

    “We knew that debt and unfunded pension obligations were serious problems at the state and federal level and assumed that a similar pattern would follow at the local level. But, quite frankly, I was stunned by the depth of the crisis for local governments,” said Pappas.

    “This goes well beyond big cities, where you expect financial challenges. These fiscal problems permeate townships, villages, school districts, park districts, fire protection districts and more, and the taxpayers are on the hook.”

    Source: Cook County Treasure’s Office

    Government employees may currently enjoy higher salaries and benefits than the private sector, but they have been given a false sense of security.

    A single county, granted one of the largest in the country, is in hock for $108 billion dollars. That’s roughly 1/7 of the total TARP bailout given to banks in 2008. This is a very big number, indeed.

    Whether you are a police officer, fireman, school teacher, or utility worker, you could have serious problems down the road.

    While Ms. Pappas offerred some ideas to help reduce Cook County’s spending for the future, she provided no realistic solutions for dealing with the current deficit. The reason for this is obvious. There are no realistic solutions expect for either borrowing the money (and further indebting themselves with high interest) or reset by default.

    In previous commentaries we’ve discussed the coming wave of State and local defaults, and it appears that the end game is close. Cook County is not alone, and chances are that every major metropolitan area in the country is heavily in the red. This means that the jobs and retirement futures of millions of people are under threat.

    We’ll no doubt begin to hear about bailouts for States and counties in the near future, and if the Republicans and Democrats in Congress have their way, then blank checks are a foregone conclusion. The only other option will be for ex-Federal governments to start reducing benefits and firing workers. Politically, that is something our elected officials, even on the Federal level, are not going to want to deal with, so we are hard pressed to see a scenario where the Federal government lets these pensions go into default – essentially being wiped away. After all, they will do whatever it takes to prevent riots in the streets for as long as possible, even if this means kicking the can down the road for a couple more years and further compounding the problem (as has been the case thus far).

    Like Greece, these governments will get the bailouts their hardworking employees deserve, only to saddle those counties and cities, as well as the entire nation, with even more debt.

    Eventually, the Federal government will hit its (real) debt ceiling as well. That will happen when no one else but The Federal Reserve will buy the US Treasury’s debt issues, at which point the retirement accounts, 401k’s, savings and dollar denominated assets of every American will be completely and utterly destroyed.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 1,061 people
    Date: June 29th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    151 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Tom says:

      This Police Officer has 6 more years before he can retire but that is not keeping me from warning people willing to listen as I continue stocking up on arms, ammo and food.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Right on Tom — When it comes down to it, they will sacrifice your pension (and mine) to make ‘ends meet.’

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Tom says:

          It just sucks knowing how much I have paid in over the past 13 years. It is what it is and I have no control over that end of things so I will take care of the things that I can control.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • No doubt Tom…. Even though pensions may be on the cutting board first, all those who are depending on social security are going to be surprised as well…. Eventually that ponzi will collapse, whether by default or debasement… Not a good outlook for retirements in general

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Anonymous says:

            13 years is nothing compared to many. The baby boom retirement is just “starting” to cross the bridge to the promised land. Downsize now and prep harder. I’m eating preps that are four years old and they are great.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • When I was 14 I heard my parents and grand parents talking about the unfunded social security and I knew that I would not be able to count on that because I will retire just after the baby boomers. So the bank will be broke and they will not have had time to restructure things. So I scrimped and saved 20% on my own and put it in IRA and 401k and some stocks. It is not much but it was what I could do. But the stock market crashes over the years have several times,cut that in half. So I purchased a couple of houses to rent. And their value is still falling but I an not underwater because I would not buy when the market was overpriced. But if my tenants can’t keep their jobs due to layoffs, they can’t pay the rent so that won’t help me either. It seems that all those years of doing without and doing what was responsible for the future may all be for nothing. It is frustrating and confusing.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          • William S says:

            C, the criminals in the government and wall street will continuously change the rules in order to skim everybody’s money and labor one way or another—being responsible is pointless ans the criminals will find a way to take everything. If you are responsible, it may take the criminal cartel of government and big banks a little longer to “take it”, but they will—-that’s what they do!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • You are talking pensions. Is there still talk about nationalizing 401K plans etc? What is Congress talking about with regard to private retirenment accounts? IRAS? 403Bs? etc.Could you do a piece on that. Is there is any new news? What about military pensions? How secure might those be?

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • RE: C – check your 401k rules – you may be able to take out a loan against it as a way of getting your cash out.

            Then you don’t pay it back. It’s your money anyway, so you don’t take a credit ratings hit.

            You will pay your income taxes, and a 10% penalty (which might be OK especially if you got any employer matching funds – you can keep those invested in case TS does not HTF)

            I just took the biggest chunk out yet, am paying off all debt with it, and looking to refinance the house at these current low (~4%) rates from a 30-year mortgage to a 15 year – the payments will go up only like $80, but I cut the payment period in half, and save like $25K.

            :)

            -DaveP
            PGH PA

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          • GlennT says:

            C: I believe they have a proposal in house to soon limit your access to your 401K, this is to “protect you” from yourself, supposedly, but its really to keep the funds in the account where they can be plundered. Did you know that the government under Gietner’s direction has ALREADY plundered 220 BILLION from the government employees pension fund (thats near a quarter TRILLION) and thats no hearsay, its a fact. I think its only a matter of time before they “liberate” your 401 by having a financial crisis as an excuse, then converting them all to Treasuries under the protection of Social Security. (remember what happened to you SS funds? they are all IOU’s from our broke government now) Trust THEM? take out ALL your 401 while you still can.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • GlennT says:

            PS: The limitation proposed on 401K’s now is to STOP you from taking loans, I’m not sure if this has passed already

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • 11 Bravo says:

        I have been lucky. We all pissed and moaned at my department because we have done without some of the toys and extras of surrounding departments in the good times. These days though, we are one of the few that are in the black and have an over-funded pension plan…..

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Gods Creation says:

          The gov corp can’t wait to raid the FEW over funded pensions. It will take longer for the victims to notice.

          All pension plans will be required to participate in the financial repression scheme, but yours will likely be at the top of the list because it is healthy.

          Not to discourage you, but I wouldn’t depend on ANY pension from any corp. It may be well funded, but it is well funded with worthless paper.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • LFMayor says:

          Not to wee wee up your campfire man, but that means they’ll be raiding your fund first.

          Take the hit and early withdraw if allowed. Convert those paper dollars into tangible assets, you’ll be ahead.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Beefcake says:

        I’ve also been warning people about the impending doom, some listen but most around me just dismiss it as crackpottery. Just remember not to tell anyone you’re stocking up cause when the “Golden Horde” comes, they’ll know you got stuff.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Tom says:

          Beefcake, keep warning people, if they don’t want to hear it then move on to the next person. Networking = Survival. As an added bonus the equally prepared friends/family/neighbors wont be attacking you for your grub and gear.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Take care of yourself & your family Tom. The govt won’t be able to do it. You are doing exactly what you should be doing.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Tom says:

          I’ve seen the writing on the wall for a long time. I think a LOT more cops are on board than most of the readers on here realize. The general public should look at police officers as that Canary in the mineshaft, if we are stocking up then maybe everyone would be wise to do the same.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Agreed… I have long since advocated watching local emergency responders… When they bug out, you should be right behind ‘em because they will have a very good sense about the state of affairs – especially police officers

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Anonymous says:

            Tom/11 Bravo: The city I live in delayed balancing the fire fighters/police pension fund today (again).

            I would include military reservists in there as a #2 also Mac.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Mr. Blutarsky says:

            Tom, You guys are on the front line. You see it. The flash mobs, the theft, the violence. I think it has increased TONS in the last year. What do you think?

            I hope you are not an office in Philly or Chicago. If so, God Bless You!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • tom says:

            Which way will the police go when they are ordered to take our guns? That will not be good for anyone involved.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Cyber_Samurai says:

            what does the t-shirt say?

            bomb disposal unit
            “If you see me running, keep up!”

            Appropeau. No?

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Durango Kidd says:

            Tom: You are US; We are you. Its the Cops at the local level who can make a really big difference in America as tensions rise.

            Enforce the laws and ordinances; but drop the harrassment tactics. Not all citizens are crackheads. You work for US. WE need to be treated like the Boss. Because WE are. Pssst, pass it on! Thanks.

            Hope you are an Oathkeeper like 11 Bravo. Someone needs to engage FOP and FOE at a national level and get OUR men in blue on the same page with the citizens.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • I have been a Cop for ten years in Florida, our dept was small however a great dept. In 2008 our dept. was disbanded, the Sheriffs office in the county did not hire anyone of us, on top of this my Lt. borrowed 2000 dollars from me to take care of a legal problem, I have not heard or seen him since, and don’t know where he lives. I should have never trusted him. Anyway I have not found any work since 08, but I manage to prep, thank God my wife still works. Not on

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • Tom says:

          Mr. Blutarsky- Yes we are seeing a large rise in thefts and assaults.

          tom- I think most cops would refuse to go door to door confiscating guns. I don’t want some farmer to drill me with his 30.06. Also, unlike people in DC most cops take their oath to defend the Constitution seriously.

          Kent- I’m sorry you’re pissed. I am in a state retirement that I have to pay into, the city I work for has to pay a LOT into it for me. I pay city, state and federal taxes. I will never forget the first time some crackwhore in the projects told me that she “Pays my Salary”. Tell me Kent, how does a person without a job get back $9,000(!!!!!) at tax time? Needless to say she didn’t think it was funny as I walked off laughing. The point is a HUGE majority of people on welfare have never worked a day in their lives let alone paid into any money into it.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Kent says:

        I work in the private sector and I don’t get a pension plan just because I go to work. You government hacks have robbed us blind and hopefully this welfare ends and ends soon. I shouldn’t have to pay for your miserable existance after you stop working.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • This is a typical but unfair reply to public employee pension agreements. I disagree with the “defined” benefit crap most public employee unions have sold their paid for council members and elected officials at all levels. That is just plain wrong.

          On the other side of the equation I went to work dilligently for 11 years for a government agency. In that time money was taken from my check that I agreed too and money was “supposedly” set aside for my retirement by the agency I worked for. Now the Agencies have kept track of that and say they are a tad short of their share and its a burden. A burden they don’t think they should pay?

          Fine I get to skip my taxes for the remainder – after all that is only fair since you decided to skip out on what you said was being set aside for me right?

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • doubletap says:

          Ditto that Kent!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Javabear says:

            I work in the private sector too but I do get a generous 401k match and some other good benefits in addition to my salary. If your job doesn’t offer you anything in the way of retirement don’t blame it on someone else because the company you work for sucks!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Conjecture says:

        Sir…..even if you can only buy a few Silver Eagles each month please do it! Eventually, this will be the only real money that will be accepted. Your family and you will be oh so glad you made the move!

        Best of luck

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • doubletap says:

        Tom you’re a cop and you’re stocking up on arms and ammo? What, are you afraid of yourself and your own kind?

        I read your post below about the crack whore on welfare…do you not realize that all of your “benefits” are welfare. Who came up with bs lunacy that someone can retire on the back of someone else after 20 years? If you’re wearing a government sanctioned costume you’re part of the problem, not the solution. Wake up!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Anonymous says:

        Instead of our pensions that we worked for may they should start looking to cut entitlements… Thats the problem with the unions.. They are to busy playing politics instead of telling like it is….

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Anonymous says:

        Great post everyone. It’s good to know that people are waking up!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Six Pans of Biscuits says:

          “It’s good to know that people are waking up”?..LOL..14 people is the equivalent to drizzle in a paper cup..the majority of the sheep will never wake up even post SHTF America..The ‘Card Castle Comfort’ attitude has been ideologically hegemonious and is the reason we’re in this position to be blown off the table..

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Buck Jackson says:

        This retired cop done bought his gold mining equipment and relevant type shi … uh stuff.
        Tho’ my pension fund managers say they are in good shape, still – who can you trutst?

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. Lucky Chucky says:

      Closed my IRA 3 years ago and is now in a safe place. They will take it all and leave you with an IOU just like the SS trust fund. The only thing in the “fund” is TRUST and mine went away along time ago. LC

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • You are fairly right. One good thing about our govt is they can’t act fast. I do think IRA’s and SS are as much at risk as any pension. There is already an Obamite economic advisor that wants a 10% every decade tax on all pre retirement holdings…..401k, IRA, pension.

        I dint get my retirement from my years in LE for 7 yrs, but I’ve never counted on it….just like I never envision getting SS.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Anonymous says:

          I think we will get everything and more with a lot of red tape. Problem is, it won’t buy anything. It’s called the slow bleed. Those companies with corporate jets are bad, bad, bad.

          Mrs. Bobo, what is the best thing about be the first lady? The trips… I’m finally proud to be an amerikan. Booga, booga, booga…

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. Anonymous says:

      What will the masses run to to save their wealth?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    4. I heard the city manager of Stockton, Ca say if they laid off all but one person who just collected money that the person would be handing it all out to former employees and the city would still be broke.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Our governments over spend (building taj mahals, state of the art schools, etc) and they over promised (pensions & lifetime healthcare, etc).

        Now they must pay the piper.

        They need to sell off the buildings (if they can find a buyer) and they need to cut back on the pensions & benefits. And they need to reduce staff.

        If they do all of this, they will stay fiscally solvent. If not, they’ll go bankrupt and our situation will be much worse.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    5. Gods Creation says:

      It’s all part of the same corp. And all sub-corps will experience the same fate in the end as the mother corp.

      The only question is how much of your “money” will you allow it to steal as it dies? The burden is always placed on taxpayers. Is that what you want to be? Understand the law and make your own choice.

      The last thing the corp will see from me is a finger, and it will not be clutching a dollar for it to steal.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    6. Dust Shield says:

      I know a couple of NYPD fools that have another 15 years to go before retirement and they seem optimistic that they’ll be unscathed.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    7. Pensions are not the only thing being destroyed. Take at look at the Food industry.
      http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-29/situation-in-global-agriculture-continues-to-worsen-jim-rogers-says?category=%2F

      Talk about going down the tubes. Learn how to grow your own food supply at http://www.bereadytosurvive.com

      My guess is seeds and food will be worth more than Gold and other PMs.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    8. Anonymous says:

      If bo bo would have had a paper route back in grade school, we’d be better off…

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    9. Dr. Prepper says:

      I lost my job in April 2007 and liquidated my entire 403b to make ends meet until re-entering the workforce 6 months later….haven’t staarted another retirement account yet ‘cept for a $500 Roth IRA certificate that has lost $23 to annual service fees. I’ll never again “bank” on a retirement in the U.S. dollar…

      I say invest heavily in guns, gold, silver, soap, ammo, tools…..anything that people will need in a pinch that their hyper-inflated dollars cannot get for them.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Gods Creation says:

        Invest in self contained power generation using Solar Power. Get a few 12V appliances so you don’t need an inverter. Life without electricity would surely not be much fun.

        http://www.diysolarpanelbuilding.com

        I would bet just about everybody has far more gold and silver than they will be able to use and not nearly enough ability to generate power on their own.

        Of course, you can always trade the gold and silver for power, if it can be had at all. Consider which one is really important if the SHTF.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Anonymous says:

          Think marine 12 volt for better quality on appliances.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • NOYB says:

          GC,

          If you are building a PV array, wouldn’t it be a good idea to get a few extra panels and keep them in the basement? I’m thinking hail / fallen branch / high wind damage. Plus you have spares in case of early failure, or to replace the array after degradation from exposure to the elements has set in. That might be a very long term scenario, but 20-30 years after the SHTF, nobody will be building more solar cells at a price you can afford.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Gods Creation says:

            I have all the pieces to put it together, but I have not done it yet. Right now, I can’t afford to get a lot of spare stuff. Before I do put together the panels, I want to think a little more about the construction so I can design something easily moved.

            When dollars permit, I will get more cells. I don’t plan on staying where I am right now anyway. My main concern is portability. The battery is pretty heavy, but I can get it 500 yards off the road with a few stops. Panels are bulky, or can be.

            I don’t believe the world will stay in chaos forever. Once the corp dies out, people will again start generating profits by filling needs. It human nature. In that kind of future, solar cells will be easy to get because there may not be a lot of power otherwise.

            The solar market has been kept back because it does allow the average guy to generate enough power to run his house without the corporate electric grid and monthly bills. In the future, it may be a necessity to generate your own power.

            Besides, in this future world, how valuable will it be to have the knowledge and skill of building solar panels and power systems?

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • NOYB – I think you have a good point…photo panels are made in a very technical industrial process.

            What GC says below is true in the normal market conditions (ie: increased demand -> increased price -> increased supply) but if there is an unlikely total techno-industrial breakdown event there simply may not be the computers (solar or man-made EMP), or energy to manufacture and transport the panels (peak oil).

            So spare panels seem like an expensive but good idea…anyone have any info on how they hold up in storage?

            -DaveP
            PGH PA

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    10. Dr. Prepper..you didn’t even list food….hmmmm

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    11. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      Government workers & retiree’s. Better cut back on your lifesytle now and start saving money because it is not guaranteed for you anymore. It was a good ride for you though. Glad I could fund it.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • John Q Public says:

        Another important tip: Start being nice to citizens. Even those of us who are scrupulously law abiding have stinging recollections of bureaucratic arrogance and law enforcement abuse—not exactly memories that will evoke sympathy when you are eating dog food.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • John Q Public says:

        If you really want to eradicate much of the world’s misery, prosecute the dynasties responsible for 500 years (!!!) of accelerated economic crimes against humanity (including the use of their private central banks to mold government policy to foment wars for their own profit):

        The Federal Reserve Cartel: The Eight Families (Parts 1 & 2)

        http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/06/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families-part-1/

        http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/06/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families-part-2/

        You want to fund your health care and pensions? Asset forfeiture of all those dynasties’ ill gotten gains would be a start. Even the octogenarian and nonagenarian perpetrators should be run to ground like Nazis with worldwide publicity of their crimes at their trials.

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      • eeder says:

        speak for your self…. im mad as hell that i have had to fund these leeches lifestyles.

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      • Anonymous says:

        @ Mr. B and eeder:
        Those who envy the military benefit package (if that’s where your comments are directed) overlook that it’s available to anyone who can meet the entrance requirements and are willing to pony up the decades of sacrifice required to earn it. That said, I consider it an honor and a privilege to have served my country in the military for over 26 years, and given you the right to post your opinions on this blog. You’re welcome.

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      • Eagle71 says:

        @Mr. B and eeder:
        Those who envy the military benefit package (if that’s where your comments are directed) overlook that it’s available to anyone who can meet the entrance requirements and are willing to pony up the decades of sacrifice required to earn it. That said, I consider it an honor and a privilege to have served my country in the military for over 26 years, and given you the right to post your opinions on this blog. You’re welcome.

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    12. European American says:

      Could someone here explain exactly what the term “pension” encompasses? For example, let say a widower has been receiving monthly payments based on the death of her spouse’s work related accident. Is that a pension? Or is pension only based on money an individual has earned and had removed from their paycheck over time, aside from social security?

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      • Gods Creation says:

        A pension is pretty much any income that you receive after retirement, that was earned or created as a result of the work you did, that comes from a single source related to the work, and was set aside for that purpose by either the company or the worker during the work.

        Pensions used to be funded by companies for their workers. Then they became faceless corps who could care less about the worker.

        The banks bought legislation creating the 401K so people would place their retirement funds in the stock market. This resulted in massive stock market inflation, making the accounts appear to grow, sucking in more people to keep the charade going. Deferred taxes were used as a bribe to the people to get them to put money in one.

        “Money” in ANY pension plan is money in someone else possession and control. All you have is promise that you will get what you are due based on the agreement.

        Now people are no longer willing or able to contribute to the stock market funding 401K, so we have QE X propping it up for now.

        As people are trying to get their money out, the banks are busy buying legislation to prevent it, or at least make it costly and difficult. More people are borrowing from their plans, so that too is being restricted and will eventually not be allowed.

        Anyone left in “pensions” of any kind will be screwed and the account left worthless. It would be far better to plan on retiring with your personal savings, held in gold and silver, in your possession and under your control.

        Anything else is just plain stupid.

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        • European American says:

          Thanks for your response.

          When the time comes, I’m not expecting to get a cent from Social Security. Never felt/planned that I was going to get that anyway, so no big deal.

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          • European American,
            I have to disagree. Yes, it is a big deal. You paid in around 6%+ each and every paycheck and your employer paid in around 6%+ each and every paycheck for your ENTIRE working life. In my case that is 36+ years. It’s ALOT of money that they have pissed into the wind with their “LockBox” and empty promises. Imagine what you could do with that amount of money if we had never invented Social Security and Medicare. The monies I paid has gone to our parent’s profligate retirement lifestyles (golfing and RVing around the USA)and now there’s no money for our retirement. It’s catfood and living on the street for anyone younger than 60 years old, unless you saved outside the “system”.

            It is a big deal!

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          • European American says:

            Well “T” I should clarify my point. It’s not a big deal to me, personally. I have my reasons, and yes, I’ve not only saved outside the system, but more recently I’ve stepped outside the system. It’s a system based on corruption, top to bottom, and I didn’t want to support those individuals spending my hard earned dollars on a second home in the Caribbean. So, I look at those fiat dollars I worked hard for and paid into the system as part of my debt, my karma for not having got out of the system earlier. Whereas, you have definitely got a case for grabbing a pitchfork and storming their castle(s). Me, I’ll take my handful of doubloons and find their empty homes in the Caribbean and hope to lay low as the Storm passes over.

            In the end, I believe, we will all get what we deserve.

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    13. fiftyfiver says:

      “There’s more to the picture than meets the eye” Gave my house to the F’n bank and cashed in my ‘IRA’ to live in the country surrounded by farms. Which country? Not that one boys and girls… get ready ( cause Ray Charles can see this storm coming) but be sure to enjoy life as you know it presently.

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    14. overtheedge says:

      Some of us saw this coming decades ago with the hostile-takeovers in industry. Buy out the company, liquidate the pensions and shut the doors.

      So then we moved on to pre-planned obsolescence in gov’t buildings. This bond will only add $4.63 to a tax bill on a $100K home. Just great. We build a $40M school to replace an out of code $1M school and our kids score less in testing. Kids in Europe go to school in 300 year old buildings and do better.

      Then add in deferred maintenance. Monies were allocated, but where did the money go?

      Add in the overpowering urge to incorporate the adjacent areas into the city limits to increase the tax base. All the new infrastructure paid for by bonds. Deferred maintenance of course.

      Now factor in the so-called urban blight. All bulldozed for public housing. But why the blight? No jobs. Productive labor is what drives the economic engine. Supply/demand curves went out the window. No money in the hands of the voters, so we buy their votes.

      So here we are. No pension monies, deteriorated infrastructure and heavy debt to income levels.

      I still fail to see why the public maintains faith in city planning boards. They create nothing but the need for increased debt. The so-called protections of property values by zoning are all about protecting the tax base. Seems to have worked – not!

      Folks, the cities are dying. The reason is simple – dependance on imports. The city must produce enough to buy its imported needs. What does a city produce? Oooo, I got it – debt.

      TANSTAAFL

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      • Ben Dover says:

        It’s easy to write checks someone else has to cover. Our “elected officials” learned that a long time ago.

        Why maintain schools, city halls, etc. when you can let them fall apart and whine about “crumbling infrastructure”?

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    15. anony says:

      Bachmann, another liar and Rewriter of History, Runs for Presnit of the once mighty usa,

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    16. scott says:

      Come you masters of war
      You that build the big guns
      You that build the death planes
      You that build all the bombs
      You that hide behind walls
      You that hide behind desks
      I just want you to know
      I can see through your masks.

      You that never done nothin’
      But build to destroy
      You play with my world
      Like it’s your little toy
      You put a gun in my hand
      And you hide from my eyes
      And you turn and run farther
      When the fast bullets fly.

      Like Judas of old
      You lie and deceive
      A world war can be won
      You want me to believe
      But I see through your eyes
      And I see through your brain
      Like I see through the water
      That runs down my drain.

      You fasten all the triggers
      For the others to fire
      Then you set back and watch
      When the death count gets higher
      You hide in your mansion’
      As young people’s blood
      Flows out of their bodies
      And is buried in the mud.

      You’ve thrown the worst fear
      That can ever be hurled
      Fear to bring children
      Into the world
      For threatening my baby
      Unborn and unnamed
      You ain’t worth the blood
      That runs in your veins.

      How much do I know
      To talk out of turn
      You might say that I’m young
      You might say I’m unlearned
      But there’s one thing I know
      Though I’m younger than you
      That even Jesus would never
      Forgive what you do.

      Let me ask you one question
      Is your money that good
      Will it buy you forgiveness
      Do you think that it could
      I think you will find
      When your death takes its toll
      All the money you made
      Will never buy back your soul.

      And I hope that you die
      And your death’ll come soon
      I will follow your casket
      In the pale afternoon
      And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
      Down to your deathbed
      And I’ll stand over your grave
      ‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead.

      bob dylan…

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    17. Alex G says:

      I thought Tim Geithner was already tapping into Federal pensions to keep the debt from breaking the ceiling, just as scandalous as in Ireland… So the destruction is already happening!

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    18. BlackSheep says:

      There is only one way to keep this game going if that is what they “truly” wanted, that would be “Universal Worldwide Debt Forgiveness” that would allow everyone to start all over, or reset the game so to speak..

      That is not what they want, the money masters would lose all the control they have gained or hold now.. truth is, they want this game destroyed so they may roll out their choice of a solution and their chosen “Savior” of the world.. A new “World Control Game”.. one world government, one world army, etc, etc, etc..

      you must destroy the old to start the new…. The old game of, Problem, Reaction and Solution (their solution that is)

      but hey, don’t mind me LOL.. I am a nutso kind of guy with a nutso way of thinking…

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        Imagine playing Monopoly. Imagine getting near the end and YOU are winning. Then, imagine setting fire to the game board and pieces. Imagine grabbing the play money and going to the store to buy something nice for yourself with a pretty yellow $100 bill.

        IMHO, that’s pretty accurate.

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    19. Patriot One says:

      For those who are ready to retire I would recommend taking a Lump Sum if you have that option. Many pension funds allow for a lump sum and a direct transfer to an IRA, but they don’t advertise it because they want to retain control of your money.

      Lump sums have a lot of advantages when it comes to survivor benefits as well. Let just say you use a systematic withdrawal instead of annuitising your pension. If you die early the full amount passes to your heirs or surviving spouse.

      Now that’s not to say that down the road they won’t go after private IRA funds, but I think that would be much lower in the pecking order.

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    20. DaveD says:

      I drained my 401k las year and paid off everything, but the house. If the SHTF, they will take it anyway. I am preppin’ and armin’ and ready to bugout. Yes, I paid the penalty and the taxes. I was not losing anything, but it was not making anything either. I thought it was better to use it than lose it. I am so happy I did.

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      • European American says:

        Should your “bugout” plan be considered literal or a metaphor for laying low? If it was to be understood as literal, where would you bugout to? Out of the city? Out of the country? I think it was smart that you got what you could out of the system but I really wonder if it’s too late to actually bug out? If anything, I would thing “bugging in” (fortifying your present position) would be far more advantageous.

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    21. sanityjones says:

      This government is NOT going to go bankrupt. We have the printing presses, we have the rest of the world by the balls, we have three generations of simpletons who are fully indoctrinated into the financial/economic/educational system of this country. WE in the working class will go bankrupt and yes, some will pillage and burn/piss and moan much like is happening in Greece; but then the cold, dark, and grim reality will set in that the Government we have all come to know and despise is the only source of food, shelter, medicine, energy, safety, and “wealth” to be had by the majority of people in this country…..the same majority that ushered in this sideshow of hope and change and will continue to vote for bread and circuses. The entitlement class does not care who pays for all of this shit because it is a fact that it will not be them. The DREAM act recipients do not care who will pay for this shit because it is a fact that it will not be them. Our “representatives” do not care who pays for this shit because they are so consumed by an inordinate lust for power and control that they are nearly indistinguishable in nature from psychopaths. Even if you do get your pension it will take $300 to buy a loaf of bread.

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    22. European American says:

      Anybody living in Uruguay? Have some friends there that insist I should visit indefinitely.

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      • disector says:

        I have been checking it out. One of the writers for The Daily Reconing is always pushing that part of south america.

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      • If you think you have no rights here, wait until SHTF in Uraguay and the USA will look like paradise.

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        • Hey You says:

          After every run of a large government printing money, the result has been war. In the case of the USA, “we” are in four or five wars now which all require money printing as financing. It is certain that those areas which are not financing wars and subsequently printing currency will be much better off than the USA.

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    23. Anonymous says:

      The goobermint is currently eating itself up without being able to raise the so called political debt limit (if there really was one). Mac is very articulate in describing the “real” debt limit. Just before or when that happens, we will wake up to drastic changes or world war or both. Most states have been surviving off of fed fiat stimulas for years now.

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    24. VRF says:

      here is something to ponder

      About 4 months ago I had my financial advisor for my company in my office , I told him i wanted to invest 10 grand in something that was a for sure secure and with a return on my money..

      I told him that i would not invest my $$ with him if he couldnt call me and give me a for sure thing..

      it was a Test..I know the guy well, and he knows me well and what i would do if i lost the 10G’s..

      I still aint heard from him…no surprise

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    25. Anonymous says:

      Mac,
      Not sure if this fit here, or not, but we havce all sen foiod prices going up, leading to poor getting poorer, while the rich get richer, corporate (federally subsidized) farms have become the rule….. and shit is hitting the fan…. and now… remember how they blew those levies in Misouri?/ I wondered then, why / how/ what is the deal with houses that have existed for 50 years, why are they flodding now? It makes no sense.

      “”Feds buying up farmland they flooded; Soros in on it””

      A Missouri farming and ranching contact just got off a conference call wherein he was informed that the federal government is sending out letters to all of the flooded out farmers in the Missouri River flood plain and bottoms notifying them that the Army Corps of Engineers will offer to BUY THEIR LAND.

      http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/feds-buying-up-farmland-they-flooded-soros-in-on-it/

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      • REB says:

        And alot of this prime land will be given to envirowacko groups and the like…safe to say it’ll not produce food again for a long spell if ever…starve them city slickers to death has been the plan for awhile from where I stand.

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    26. Rather not say says:

      That’s what you get when you put a Greek (Pappas) in charge of the Cook County Treasury! Notice how upbeat she is in the video. She’s hasn’t a brain in her head!

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    27. Dave says:

      Don’t worry, everyone will get their pensions, but after the dollar devaluation (now in progress) it’ll only pay the electric bill!

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    28. overtheedge says:

      Every senior NCO and field grade officer in the military understands the term “lines of communications.” It is NOT telephone, radio or wide-band internet. It is logistical support. Move beans, fuel and bullets to the front and the wounded to the rear. Failure is NOT an option ergo the frontlines stall quite often while the logistical support catch up.

      In the city, the same problem always arises. Food and goods are moved in and refuse is moved out. Rome had its aqueducts and cloaca as well as port facilities and the extensive highway network. The infrastructure was paid for by conquest. Ie. someone else’s wealth.

      So why does a city exist? Wealth. Wealth is nothing more than disposable income and leisure time. Those who have it tend to want entertainment, finer goods and services. Wealth attracts wealth. It also attracts those wanting a better life.

      Each city will face the same problem, higher demand for public services which increase the fixed costs of production. Competition soon drives all but the manufacturers of high end goods to move production elsewhere. This results in job losses, decreased tax base and urban blight. Enter urban renewal and subsidized housing.

      Sooner or later the same end result hits the city-state; serious cash-flow problems. In Rome, it led to currency de-basement. And along came inflation. With the job losses and reduced tax revenues, the lower classes got caught in an economic vise. Not enough income to maintain their standard of living and not enough money to escape. To maintain public order, more and more of the infrastrucure must be subsidized. Maintenance is deferred.

      To keep the public from grasping the dire circumstances, entertainment is key. Cable TV with 150 channels of nonsense, theaters and sports arenas. This course of action doesn’t last long. When the public is broke, it can’t pay the bills for entertainment. The limits of growth have been exceeded. Costs become far greater than the income needed to support it.

      Nothing can reverse this trend. It is integral to the human condition. No income derived from productivity always results in greater demands on the lines of communications. For the city-state, the greatest demand is for money to support the costs of its imports and exports. Garbage, sewage and water treatment are exports. On top of this is the exports of money via the commuters. Remember that deferred maintenance of infrastructure? It just gets worse as tax revenues decline.

      The wealth that is left in the city soon gets dispersed elsewhere and financing for additional growth hits the limit. The city goes into further decline. Even monies for industry seek investment opportunities elsewhere. The opportunities are far removed from the city and consequently the area surrounding the city-state goes into economic decline. The contagion spreads.

      In order to maintain some semblence of civilization, public assets get privatized. Fear drives city management to seek creative financing alternatives. Assets are used for collateralized loans. Pension payments get deferred and in the end, get used for stop-gap daily financing. The spreading contagion soon eliminates external means of financing the city’s line of communications. The death of the city-state becomes a certainty.

      Want some examples? Look to Detroit, Pittsburg or California. I reminded of the phrase popularized by Dr. Phil, “If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got.” History is cyclical because each generation truly believes it is smarter than the previous. We refuse to admit the fundamental problem and treat the symptoms because we studied what went wrong. The problem was, is and will always be centralization.

      The more you centralize a civilization, the greater the vulnerability to disruptions in the lines of communications. Every increase in complexity results in increased vulnerability to black swan events. With everything connected to everything, you set the system up for cascade failures. Just in time deliveries turn to crap with each snowstorm or flood. Weather can eliminate entire growing seasons. A strike by a union can leave garbage piled in the street. Few want to address the problems with centralized water distribution.

      In every depression and collapse, what remaining wealth soon gravitated to the countryside. In most cases, the nation-states turned to conquest to rebuilt the treasury. It too always failed. The beans and bullets are consumed without producing any tangible goods that are in demand. Furthermore, this consumption raises the inflation rate by increasing demand. The public is forced to finance this indirect tax. But every depression needs an enemy to fight against.

      Wars are fought over resources. Ideology is the illusion used to garner public support for the war. Few ever recognize that the costs of keeping an army in the field greatly exceeds the potential income derived from winning. Inflation is the only recourse for maintaining the lines of communications. We still haven’t paid off the true costs of Nam and it happened over 30 years ago. However we now hire foreign contractors to transport beans and bullets to our troops.

      Nuf said.

      PS. The real reason for government involvement in the markets, local gov’t and personal lives is the complexity of these lines of communications. They know it is far too complex, but increased data provides a slim possibility to have a plan ready. Kinda like the Patriot Act and ObummerCare.

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    29. Anonymous says:

      Awesome! +1

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    30. stan says:

      Digg this:

      2025: You can receive your first old age pension check when you reach 80. It will be enough to buy a bag of groceries.

      You will be covered under medicare when you turn 85, but no pre existing conditions.

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    31. Durango Kidd says:

      OTE is right when he says that the present liquidation and confiscation of pension funds could be foreseen decades ago. I knew unfunded pension plans were next after 1987, when the lobbyists for the Gangster Banksters manipulated Congress for a RETROACTIVE law that destroyed the savings and loan industry and transferred the deposits to the Commercial Bankers.

      Now there are five major banks, instead of dozens. The concentration of wealth and power continues to this day.

      The seeds for the mass confiscation of pension funds by the Gangster Banksters and Government were sown then. Many pensions were destroyed by the S&L Debacle; many were underfunded, and many more were insured with the US Government.

      So WHO picked up the tab then, for the pensions and mortgages? The US taxpayer. And who benefited? That’s right the Gangster Banksters. Folks that was just a trial run for the present confiscation of American wealth, and a minor prelude to what they have planned for US.

      read: http://www.shtfeconomics.blogspot.com

      Lock & Load.

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    32. MyPensionintrouble says:

      I got a notice in the mail that our local union pension was in serious financial trouble and in danger of insolvency.
      I have talked about the letter with some financial advisers and they say do not worry because pensions are insured.
      Well if that is the case just how many pensions plans in the United States are in trouble? And how many can the Feds afford to insure?
      Just wondering when it all collapses after being propped up, what will be left? and what will it look like?

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        MPIT: That was my point exactly. US taxpayers will be asked to foot the bill for these insured pensions and when the money is gone, the pensioners will be broke with the rest of America.

        I say if they pensioners must eat cake , lets start with the Federal Government Pensions.

        Big Business now has a program of long term temp workers so that to get hired you must work your ass off for slave wages. Afterwards they cull the herd every few years to make sure no one becomes vested.

        Every dollar BIG Management saves is another buck in their pocket and another bounce in their stock price.

        I am a capitalist but not always proud of it.

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      • MyPensionintrouble,
        I’ll take a guess at what “it” will look like:
        1. a much lower standard of living for the average person;
        2. much higher prices of everything, except your dollar priced savings account or pension plan;
        3. decrepit and rundown roads, bridges, utility lines, underground water lines, etc.
        4. an enraged citizenry that realizes the entitlement promises just cannot be kept without stealing every penny from our children in taxes.
        5. Massive unemployment, as businesses will continue to shutdown or move offshore to escape the inevitable class warfare taxation, the frivolous lawsuits, the healthcare mandates, the regulations.

        In summary, the USA will begin to look like Cuba or the old Soviet Union — old cars, rundown homes, scruffy clothing, lots of commercial real estate with FOR SALE signs and broken out windows. Massive amounts of deferred maintenance on everything from cars, to homes, etc. Millions of people living on the street, under bridges. Not pretty.

        The good news is that eventually the USA will break up into sub-countries that want to return to our founding principles — The Republic of Texas; the Republic of North and South Dakota, etc. You can say goodbye to the liberal east and west coasts — they will turn into giant versions of Detroit.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          A few weeks ago I was in Daytona and saw an 11 story hotel right on the beach that had been sitting empty for some time. Lots of empty storefronts right in the tourist trap section.

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          T: Not gonna happen. Americans will change the direction of the PTB and the gangster banksters, by putting them in jail, kicking them out of office and taking back the country long before that happens.

          You might be helpless, but everyone else isn’t. There are enough Americans who want change and will see to itthat they get it.

          Get some fucking spine you moron!

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          • OKPrepper says:

            There are enough Americans, problem is will they get up off their collective ass’s in time!!!

            Look at where we are right now. To me, this puts it in a nut shell. I went to my first Tea Party 2 years ago. I live in a town of less than 1 million, we had roughly 5-6000 people show up at that Tea Party on April 15. That was one of the highest turns outs per capita in the entire country.

            Even the Tea Part people were not united. A second Tea party group formed because they didn’t like how the first one was doing it. The next April we had two Tea Parties, one day apart. There were less than 2000 at either one. I went to both. This year, we had one Tea Party, and there were less than 100 people that came.

            So where the hell are all of these Americans that are going to stand up to our government, our National Guard when they come to take our guns or our bullion or our food, cause we’re hording don’t you know.

            We can put 80,000 screaming fans in a frigging football stadium each and every weekend, dozens and dozens of them all over the country, yet we can’t get but .006% of the population to show up for a Tea Party.

            I am not saying the Tea Parties are the answer to anything, but it was a damn good start. I hate the fact that the Republican party, Michelle Bachman and the like have co-opted the Tea Party and turned them into a third political party.

            I hope to God there are enough real Americans that will stand up, problem is they should be standing up right now, but they ARE NOT!!

            Oh, and Durango Kidd, show some class, I think you are showing who the real moron is here.

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          • Warning.com says:

            I feel your rage Durango Kidd, but look at he Greeks, they are rioting and pillaging, and the Government still passed Austerity, so what did they accomplish, their standard of living is going down anyway despite all the fires and attacks against establishment.
            I have a gut feeling T is correct and you my friend are very wrong, get ready Durango Kidd because Hellish living conditions are coming to a state like yours.
            And if you or anyone else in America revolts against the elite, they will tag you, tax you, criminalize you, and destroy you, and they will house you in one of the many large prisons in the United States.

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        • Stealth says:

          What a great bunch of posts. I may not be as eloquent as some of yall but at least I know the truth when I hear it. I’ll keep trying.

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    33. OKPrepper says:

      The pension funds are just part of the problem. The FDIC is broke and they are supposedly insuring over $7 trillion in the banks in this country.
      Insurance companies, they are barely keeping their head above water. State Farm was the only self insured company back when Katrina hit. They had 40 billion in assets, they lost $20B in that storm alone. I know people that had insurance claims from over a year ago that have been paid less than half of the loss. Now those companies have to deal with the tornado’s and flood damage this summer. Insurance companies like all of the pension funds invested in real estate and the stock market. They will the next you see lobbying the government for a bailout.
      This whole system we live in is so over leveraged, there is no way we can come out of this without complete and utter collapse. It will worse than any of us can possibly imagine, it will make the great depression look like party.
      Americans back then were different, they were proud and self sufficient. The majority of the population didn’t live all bunched together in big cities. People knew their neighbors, trusted one another.
      I think those of us in the mid west might have a chance to survive, but those of you on the right and left coasts are in real trouble. Look what is happening all around us. The riots in Grease will be here soon, it’s just a matter of time.
      Those that can, get out of the cities. Get rural, buy land and learn to farm. Build a community of people around you that you can trust, quite possibly with your life. That is the only long term survival chance I see anyone having.

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      • sanityjones says:

        Peak oil, peak population, peak agriculture, peak wealth, peak insurance……………….

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      • SmokinOkie says:

        OKPrepper-Excellent point about the insurance companies. When the one who is supposedly your financial back-up, whether it’s a gov agency, insurance company or uncle joe with a coffee can full of cash, if they are broke or have nothing but worthless paper, then you really have no back-up. Most people here understand that, but sadly the overwhelming majority of americans don’t. We are fast approaching the point where NO paper asset, corp or gov agency, or anything else is gonna be able to actually deliver the stuff we need to survive. Overtheedge said it best a couple posts above. And DK clearly identifies the true beneficiaries of this mess- the banksters.
        My personal response to all this is to get out of the way, as much as possible, and do everything I can to be self sufficient. Pretty much what all of us are trying to do. Only wish we had more time and resources to get prepared with.

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        • OKPrepper says:

          It’s sad that it seems like those of us that have a clue what to do most often don’t have the resources. Those that have the resources don’t have a clue. Honestly most of them I would not wont watching my back anyway.

          For those that have never heard of it, or have not taken the time to read it, if you really want to know who it is that is behind this entire plan to tear apart this country and the rest of the world and reshape it into something new, read The Creature From Jekyll Island.

          G Edward Griffin pulls back the covers for every one to see who the real bad guys are, and yes it is the big old money, the bankers in here and in Europe.

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    34. Anonymous says:

      bo bo is not a million-air? He should raise taxes on himself & anony. Maybe they could buy their own health insurance & take the bus. You need to do “a” job and become “a” leader. Take the arabic curtains down behind you while on the boob tube.

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    35. No doubt about it, the ‘manure’ is about to meet the ‘fan’…I think I heard actually that June 30th is when the Fed stops buying treasuries, at that point who I ask WHO is going to purchase them? Things are poised to get real bad real fast, and when the economy tanks (according to Gerald Celente)countries look at war to fix it, so World War III is probably a lot sooner then you may think.

      This is why we created a social networking website. This ain’t no Facebook, we actually encourage alias’s and fake pictures (so long as they’re appropriate, nothing nude please we don’t wanna see THAT…again…LOL) Everything shortly will be locked private and an invite only basis, so if you’re interested act fast and PLEASE help get the word out of this newly launched website

      http://worldwidewakeupnowprojectunity.ning.com

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    36. Babyteenager says:

      can someone please tell me what “when the Fed stops buying treasuries” means in baby talk terms.

      i am a teenager and i hear my parents talking about it all the time, but i am too young and too inexperienced to understand all this economic jive talk.

      so if someone out there can please explain to me:
      What Feds buying treasury has to do with anything?
      what the heck are treasuries anyway?
      Why can’t we just print our own money instead of relying on someone else?

      I have tried wiki and other sites but all this talk about feds buying up treasuries is too way too complicated.
      that’s why us young people do not care, because we cant understand your adult Jive talk.

      please help i want to understand what my parents are yapping about all the time at the dinner table.

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      • Check out the following movie for a pretty good overview of our monetary system – and it is very entertaining, as well.

        I can pretty much guarantee you that your high school teachers didn’t cover this in Government class (and your college professors won’t either).

        ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKX9TWRyfs&feature=related

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      • “Buying up the treasuries” in a sense all that means is that the Feds are pumping trillions into our economy to give it a loan (sort of) do you see how the national deficit is constantly rising and at scary levels now? Happening because the feds are basically buying US debt it’s equal to taking money out of an ATM with your credit card to pay….the same credit card bill…it just doesn’t work out at all but we had little choice left

        They’re buying time by creating scary levels of debt, but as they do this our dollar becomes watered down and less valuable sooner or later the fed won’t have any $$ left to throw into their own debt, and when that happens (possibly June but it looks like it could be 3rd Quarter which is the months of July 1st to October 1st) our dollar is going to be worth basically the paper that it’s printed on (almost jack squat) the whole thing with Treasuries is that it’s an investment and that you get money back, other countries/creditors aren’t going to feel that way when they see how worthless our dollar is, so when the fed stops pumping massive amounts of money into the economy, who will? Hope that helps, that was the best way I could explain it

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          Not exactly Kyle, but I don’t have time to explain fully right now as I was just about to exit the net. Just know that the money is not going into the “economy” it is going into the accounts of the member banks of the federal reserve to bolster their balance sheets against mortgage and derivates losses so they can maintain their required liquidity levels.

          If it were going into the economy we would have runaway inflation, instead of double digit inflation, which is right around the corner.

          You are right that they are trying to buy time. They want to wait until after the next election and then the INFLATION starts in a BIG way: 18 months is not that long to keep the ponzi scheme going.

          Thats when the SHTF.

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    37. SmokinOkie says:

      On a brighter note: I’m teaching my 12 yr old granddaughter how to shoot! By her 3rd lesson, she’s putting 80% of her shots into a 4inch target at 100 feet, and that’s with an old open sight el-cheapo .22! Damn, I’m proud of her! Give that girl a good scoped rifle and we’ll have a sniper! Looks like we have a budding Annie Oakley in the family!

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      • Good stuff, you’re an awesome Grand Mother I wish we had more like you!!!

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        • SmokinOkie says:

          GrandPa, but that’s ok! I’ve been mistaken for much worse than that!:)

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          • Anonymous says:

            Granny Hawkins: So, you’ll be Josey Wales.
            Josey Wales: Now, how might you know that, Granny?
            Granny Hawkins: Soldiers were here looking for you ’bout two hours ago.
            [Josey looks at Carstairs]
            Sim Carstairs: Uh, I was goin’ to mention that to you… as soon as I got the chance.
            Granny Hawkins: They say you killed your own men.
            Jamie: Those lying, blue-scum bellies…
            Granny Hawkins: They say you’re a hard put and desperate man, Josey Wales. They’re goin’ to heel and hide you to a barn door. You know what I say?
            Josey Wales: What’s that?
            Granny Hawkins: I say that big talk’s worth doodly-squat. Now, them poultices be laced with feathermoss and mustard root. Mind you drop water on ‘em occasional and keep ‘em damp.
            [Walks off]
            Granny Hawkins: You can pay me when you see me again, Josey Wales.
            Josey Wales: I reckon so.

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      • When the tree of liberty needs watering by the blood of tyrants she can be of use. Keep up the training.

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      • VRF says:

        Thats a good age to start em. Mine got a .177 cal pump for Christmas and a .22 for birthday.
        set up a 20′ range in my basement..fun for plinking

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    38. 18 months is not that long to keep the ponzi scheme going.

      Thats when the SHTF.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~

      I trust you DK…and I bought a truckload of 24 double rolls @ $9 at DG…up to 3 years, 8 months now…gonna get more tomorrow!!
      I sincerely don’t see how this nation can survive another 18 months, but am gonna trust you and continue the weekly visit to Sam’s for rice, tuna, and buillon cubes.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        JJ: Seventy percent of Americans are still working, paying their bills AND their mortgage. Where I sit and where I am, that 70% is spending money like they ALWAYS have.

        There IS a lot of people out there with real money. For now. Keep prepping.

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    39. SPECTRE of Deflation says:

      Our pensions, both public and private, are the only assets that are available for pillage by our elected officials at all levels of government. How about a nice Treasury Bond paying what amounts to next to nothing on what was formally your own retirement account? This won’t come close to providing what is needed when you have future unfunded liabilities totaling at least $60 Trillion Dollars as a minimum floor for what will be needed, but we can kick the can down the road for awhile with this scheme. It all goes KA-BOOM either way just as Minsky predicted.

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    40. anony says:

      I would say more like 55percent are working and paying their bills. I know a hundred people and like 5 have a job, so their numbers are fake.

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    41. Goldenfoxx says:

      Ben Dover says:
      June 29, 2011 at 10:15 pm

      The parasites who ride in the wagon are the first to become indignant at ANY opportunity.
      —————————————-

      That would be the cocoapuffers that are invading the social service office everyday. They get the free food stamps, the free housing, and the free medical care. The working class go to work to support these slugs. The entitlements are what has to stop. Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money. SO is retiring after 40 years with the same company. No point in working when the same amount of money will be coming in.

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    42. anony says:

      Ben Dover, that amounts to about 1% of the debt problem, now lets talk about the Military Industrial Complex, they account for about 60% of all debt and waste, Um, I wonder what should be cut.

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    43. Durango Kidd says:

      OK Prepper: Kiss my grits! If OUR country had a nickel for every time some moron posted the Russian propaganda on this site that the US was going to break up into regional countries, balkin style, then WE could pay off the national debt, secure the finances of social security, protect the pensions of every working American, and provide free health to everybody; and not just ILLEGALS.

      It aint gonna happen.

      There is a battle for OUR minds on the internet and some people bring that battle here. Others repeat the mindless chatter that they hear that has no basis in reality, and I am going to challenge that moronic propaganda every time I see it or hear it.

      I bought a T-shirt from SHTF America the other day that reads:

      “There is nothing wrong with America that faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and the energy of her people cannot cure” – Dwight David Eisenhower

      I wear it proudly. Get one of your own.

      There are those here who are fear mongers; others who are filled with fear of the unknown, some who have never faced a harsh reality and survived. Those of US who are strong enough, need to lend that strength to others who need it.

      There is nothing going on in this country that cannot be changed by those few who are committed to taking the country back from the PTB: the gangster banksters, big business, and globalist government. There are many more of US then there are of them. Its OUR country, not theirs.

      They need to fear US. America is awake, America is aware, and America is goinbg to reflect the values of our founding fathers once again. It won’t happen overnight. Revolutions never do.

      This is OUR country and there is no reason for the average American to accept what has passed as government of the people, by the people, and for the people, from these globalists in DC.

      Its time to eradicte the G-Flu: R1, D1, L1 Get on board or get out of the way.

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    44. To all those folks that retired on a pension, like my sister, at ***49**** years old, I say, TOO BAD. Go back to work like the rest of us. I’ve never had a pension any where I worked, and you can be DARNED sure I am not going to cover someone else’s pension while I eat cat food.

      I have another family member, a teacher, who is retiring in her mid-50s at – get this – $7,000 per MONTH.

      Tell you what: All you free lunchers can all live off of each other. I’m going Galt.

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    45. anony says:

      Casey and Calee anthony are whores, distractions of the MSM to hide the coming destruction of the country and these stupid sheep lap it up everyday!

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    46. Anyone that has a city, county, state or federal pension really needs to beat them to it… take it away from them and pay the taxes, then spend the proceeds on precious metals and freeze-dried foods.
      After “they” have taken those pension funds, they will “nationalize” your 401Ks and IRAs. You might as well beat them to it now while metals prices are down.

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    47. anonyk says:

      Read my Book Crazy for God, you will love it, it shows how this country was destroyed from within, and how fast the fall is coming.

      July 1, 2011 5:55 PM

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    48. anony says:

      I like things that go bang for the kiddies as much as anyone else, but anyone who celebrates July 4th as an independence day is deluded.

      We never won our independence and if we did it was temporary at best. The euro elite run this country, absolutely.

      Do people even know that after we supposedly ‘won’ that British troops were here for 21 years afterward?

      Once they installed their law, courts, and monetary system on us, only then did they leave. In the 1800s they established us as a sub-corporation of the British Empire; aka the District of Columbia.

      Americans proudly proclaim that they are free, but that is far from the case. We are stock in a corporation literally. Your birth certificate has a capital red series of numbers; your stock number. You then get to spend the rest of your life paying 1.5 days of your work week in taxes to your owners via their Fed Researve and Fed Tax.

      Most of us are common stock of course.

      The United States of America is not a land mass. It is a corporation. Like all corporations, we have a treasurer, a pres and vice pres, etc. But the REAL POWER in every corp is from the hidden folks – the board of directors. That my friends is the global banking elite families.

      We are debt slaves, obedient workers because we are not aware of our slave status.

      Think about that as you hold a sparkler!!

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    49. Lee says:

      Pensions wouldn’t be in danger except for the top 1%. Raise taxes to promote “the general Welfare” (see US Constitution) and social security and medicare and medicaid and pensions would be solvent. We have enough people to grow and harvest crops in the field. We have enough people to clean the streets and maintain the roads and bridges. We have enough people to train new doctors and provide basic healthcare for everyone. We now have more than enough houses built in the country to house everyone. All the basic necessities are available, but the reason people live in poverty and go hungry is because the top 1% suck the profits out of the system. Millions of poor people work every day creating value for society, but all the wealth goes to the top. The people who actually DO THE WORK stay poor. See the big picture? Something needs to change and taxes are the best and most PEACEFUL way of creating that change.

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    50. Hey You says:

      Yes, Lee, you’re correct.

      However, taxes need to be collected by politicians who, to date, have not been reliable in meeting their responsibility to do much of anything except buying votes and blowing up taxes in foreign wars.

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