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  • Clarocet for Kids

    Swelling State Debt and “Pension Tidal Wave” May Engulf Economy

    Mac Slavo
    June 18th, 2015
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (109)
    Read by 11,119 people

    money-tidal-wave

    The housing market and the student loan bubble are not the only financial bombs set to go off.

    Pension liabilities swelled drastically over the decades since they were set up, as politicians conceded greater and greater benefits to workers, and passed off the burden on taxpayers.

    Investing in risky stocks, and now derivatives, these pensions have become a millstone around the necks of dozens of socialized cities and states across the country – with locales like Detroit, New Jersey and California as the worst offenders.

    Irresponsible funding by local authorities was compounded by pressure from unions for state and municipality workers, and now, according to the Washington Examiner, it is threatening to create a “tidal wave” that is not only creating bankruptcies and threatening to leave pensioners stranded, but could engulf the larger economic picture as well:

    Over time, elected officials came to promise workers politically popular new benefits without setting aside the money to pay for them, declared “holidays” from contributions into pension systems and changed their own accounting systems midstream to make the systems seem better funded — all just ways of passing obligations on to future taxpayers. In the process, government pension systems became one of the chief vehicles that state and local politicians used to massage their budgets.

    Years of gimmicks and politically motivated benefit increases for government workers have left America’s states and municipalities with pension funds that are short at least $1.5 trillion — and possibly as much as $4 trillion if the investment returns of these funds don’t live up to expectations in coming years.

    Retirement debt has even played a crucial role in high-profile government bankruptcies — including in Detroit; Stockton, California; and Central Falls, Rhode Island. Fixing the problem is proving expensive, and it won’t happen quickly in places with the worst debt.

    Now we face the consequences. Our elected representatives played a deceptive game of chicken with pension funds. And now the chickens have come home to roost.

    Accounting games met with political theatrics has transformed the pension situation into an all out crisis, just waiting to collapse.

    The ripples of those problems could easily send shockwaves through the economy, given the enormity of pension funds like Calpers – which shockingly has at least $198 billion in unfunded liabilities – and the high risk way in which funds have been leveraged and invested.

    Nationwide, the pension shortages top a minimum of $1.5 trillion, but as the Washington Examiner explain, the real number could be an unfathomable $4 trillion in unfunded liabilities given the current direction of financial markets.

    A recent New York Times article highlighted the complications for major pension funds who are managed on Wall Street by major equity firms including Blackstone, KKR and the Carlyle Group – and shell out huge amounts of money in management fees, and increasingly see little in return in the Federal Reserve’s zero percent interest rate climate:

    “The biggest problems facing pension funds are twofold,” said David Crane, a lecturer in public policy at Stanford University and a former special adviser to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. “One is earning enough to make up for their failure to earn what they said they would earn in the past, and two is making enough in this environment to pay for new promises.”

    For pension plans across the country, the issue has become political as well as financial as taxpayers are increasingly being asked to pay for public pension shortfalls. “The more that is being paid to the asset managers, the less is available for public services,” Mr. Crane said.

    New Jersey may be in the news for its stunning and corrupt mismanagement of the pension problem, but these bureaucrats are hardly alone.

    A pension fund for Texas teachers, the fifth largest in the nation, lost big on leveraged investments managed by KKR – showing how Wall Street managers can literally gamble with the futures of millions of Americans:

    The Teacher Retirement System of Texas wanted a big win, so it put $100 million into the buyout of a Las Vegas gaming company called Station Casinos.

    The company went bankrupt, and like many an unlucky jackpot-chaser, the state’s largest pension fund walked away a loser. More than $99 million of Texas teachers’ retirement money had vanished.

    The fact that the current market is not performing, and hence not providing returns has made all of this so much worse.

    There is no getting around the fact that socialism has fueled this problem, while bad government habits and dangerous Wall Street investments have made this into a monstrosity that won’t soon be resolved.

    Best to head for high ground.

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 11,119 people
    Date: June 18th, 2015
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

    109 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. AMartinez no not that one! says:

      Glad I’m broke!

      • PC SUX says:

        I didn’t see any mention of Social Security and Federal Employees Retirement….It’s in the same boat, so I guess we’ll all sink together

        • Unreconstructed Southron says:

          Born to fail.

          • durangokidd says:

            Greek bank depositors and Greek bond investors won’t be the only ones getting a “haircut”. American civil servants at the State and local level will be taking one too.

            Reset!!! The smart money is moving to cash. Drain your accounts to the bare minimum. 🙂

            • Anonymous says:

              Cash can get you in trouble.

              Too much of it on hand and you are assumed to be a criminal.

            • BigB says:

              Just reported that the Greek banks will be open tomorrow but probably not on Monday. Government says if monies continue to be withdrawn they will dictate how much can be withdrawn. Yet knowing this the stock market here in the USofA continues to soar? I guess it is a flight to safety from the European stock markets.? Dollar appears to be losing steam as Gold went up today over 2%. If and it is a big if as to the reason why gold goes up.

              BigB

            • OutWest says:

              I didn’t know the real meaning of fornication
              until the governments got involved.

            • Cellar Spider says:

              @DK….

              uh oh….

              “The Group of Seven countries are in fundamental agreement that the Chinese yuan should be part of the IMF’s international basket of reference currencies….”

              However, I still can’t bet you a benjamin because I’m all tied up in renminbi.

              Accepted in the fall, start in 2016.

              • durangokidd says:

                CS: Yes, all the major financial powers are in “fundamental agreement (in principle) that the Chinese Yuan should be part of the IMF’s international basket of reference currencies”, (including the US). That has been the plan all along.

                That has never been the issue. That has been the PLAN to align China with the West; under Western RULES.

                WHEN is the issue. Chinese capital banking structure is the problem. The Chinese limit Chinese citizens to $50k worth of currency transfers offshore each year.

                A world reserve currency must be completely fungible with NO capital controls, for a starter. China does not have a viable bond market for another, also necessary for a world reserve currency.

                There are other systemic problems related to the current financial structure in China which is not similar to the West. Do some research. Changes must occur before the Yuan is ready to function within the IMF basket of currencies.

                Most important, the US controls China’s admission into the IMF basket. That approval will not come without serious political concessions in the South China Sea; which will not happen. The recent revelation of China Cyber spying will also dampen US enthusiasm for approval.

                Its NOT gonna happen this year and it has NOT been approved for next year yet. Do your homework. 🙂

                • NoDem says:

                  @durango, please learn to think out of the box. You are ASSUMING that the IMF and U.S. will be using the same judgement process for china as they would other countries. Not so fast! There may be other reasons to allow china in, such as their huge ownership position in U.S. treasuries, potential promises NOT to exacerbate problems in the S. China Sea, etc. The rules of yesterday are no longer in play. We minions have no real idea what the power brokers are thinking.

            • John Renshaw says:

              Its funny conservatives are feeling bad for the Greeks. They are a big government left country that has never done anything hard in their history. They are going to get money from people who worked for it and had it stolen by people with the same beliefs. I say instead we rub it in their face tell them to bad. Every penny we give to foreign countries is one less for hard working conservative Americans. If they are that bad off rent rooms to the Syrians.

        • passinwiththewind says:

          Here is a little tid bit of information that will kind of put it into perspective, and includes the SS and Fed.Emp. Pensions obligations of the USSAG, thus far.

          The people that crunch numbers and are respected as authorities in their field, have recently come up with a figure to culminate the world’s personal wealth. That is assets after debt, or net worth. In other words, the total combined in all the world.

          That figure is about 200 Trillion dollars worth.

          The total “cash” debt, for the Ussag alone, stands at 18 trillion.

          The amount of obligated/owed National debt alone, is figured at 213 trillion dollars. This figure includes the SS and Pension debt.

          So the USSAG owes more than 230 trillion, and way more than what the net worth of the worlds population stands at.

          What does a trillion mean?

          If broken down into seconds, it goes like this:

          A million seconds is under 12 months.

          A billion seconds is about 32 years.

          A trillion seconds is about 32,000 years.

          The picture is pretty gloom when the realization comes that there is no feasible way out of this debt burden.

          The interest on our debt is piling up at the rate of 235 billion dollars per day. Double the interest rate, and well…you get the picture.

          During the current presidential administration our debt has basically doubled, in less than seven years.

          It doesn’t take a skilled mathematician to see that we are past the point of no return. We have allowed the foxes to watch over the hen house, and there are no chickens left to come home to roost.

          • TEST says:

            Last I looked about a year or so ago, Dr. Lawrence Kotlikoff, now at Boston Univ., formerly served in Reagan Treasury dept., estimated there were $222 *trillion* in **total** unfunded liabilities, if you count everything. Obviously, the total is more now.

            Meanwhile, the War on Poverty, started by leftist LBJ, has spent $20 trillion, and the sister programme, the Model Cities Prog., had, as it’s first *large* city, Detroit as it’s first, err… victim. Y’know, Detroit: the only city you can walk 12 blocks and STILL be at the scene of the crime.

            That socialism thing does WONDERS, doesn’t it! Just like it did for the USSR, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Cuba and is currently doing for Europe. And next stop in the US after leftist Obungler will be Hillary and her troupe of flying monkeys (and missing emails)

            • Kevin2 says:

              Somewhere there is a happy medium where a safety net is there w/o strangling the overall economy.

              The nations in northern Europe are about as close to the above as possible. Certainly the concentration of wealth in the US is certainly fueling the decline.

              Prior to Free Trade abolishing tariffs with slave labor nations eviscerating US manufacturing and with it the middle class coupled with the de-regulation of the Financial Sector we were thriving.

              Letting robber barons run amuck was not a good idea in 1900 and isn’t a good idea today.

              • Braveheart says:

                Over at the daily sheeple, “Mass Shooting, Mass Hysteria, Mass Propaganda”. Interesting article.

              • The Old Coach says:

                Who were the robber barons? Was Vanderbilt a robber baron? His first success was to break the cross-river ferry monopoly between New Jersey and New York. He continued to knock over monopolies the rest of his life. Was James Hill a robber baron? He built a transcontinental railroad without a penny of subsidy, and ran it so efficiently that his competitors had to use government-enforced rate controls to slow him down and stay in business. But your modern “historians” call him a robber baron. Was Rockefeller a robber baron? He built such an efficient system for extracting, refining, and distributing kerosene that the price fell to 20% of what it had been. But he is called a robber baron. Andrew Carnegie gathered up the best engineering talent and technology available to build mills that made better steel faster than anybody else, which drove the price of steel down. But he is called a robber baron. J.P.Morgan more than once personally provided the liquidity that kept the American banking industry from total collapse. It’s a fact that the organization of the Fed was undertaken when it was because Morgan was dying, and nobody else could fill his shoes. But he is reviled as a robber baron.

                Our history has been so twisted by the ignorant and the Marxists who teach them that we really don’t know anything anymore.

                Oh, there were some robber barons, all right. Leland Stanford and Thomas Durant stand out. They sucked up millions in Federal subsidies in the 1860s to build a junk railroad that had to be almost completely rebuilt in the 1870s. Rails sank into mud, ties of the wrong wood rotted away, bridges and trestles fell down, you name it. Their massive buying of Senators and Congressmen eventually blew up in the infamous “Credit Mobilier” scandal.

                The GMs and Solydras of their time.

                /rant off/

          • passinwiththewind says:

            I was hoping someone would catch my intentional mistake.

            A million seconds is less than….12 days, not 12 months.

        • apache54 says:

          all i have to say is that for MANY years now when the government says they are doing something good for Joe Blow, it is always a scam and they need the power of population numbers for there scheme and it has been a long time coming for this house of cards to fall, I just hope we the people can rebuild, BUT i don’t think that will happen.

        • Paranoid says:

          Actually no my lifeboat is loaded and not leaking, I’ve decided in the event of a total collapse, not to participate.. Retired early (50) got my buy out, got my pension, been retired 15 years. Got 5 times my money back; saved a bunch of it for the kids, and am doing just fine; saving more every day. Put a lot in PM’s and figure to do just fine. The warning has been on the wall for 30 years anyone that didn’t read It, that’s to bad. I kept the testimony from Social Sec in 1983 that it was going down, still have it. To bad for they young ones but I’m saving the ones I can.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        This also helps explain the City Cops Revenue Police state. Any thing to charge you with an offense that raises revenue for the City, County and State. Asset forfeiture over minor drug possessions a clever scam to steal your wealth. Once crooked politicians start getting shot maybe thing would change.

    2. Stolz Vorfahren says:

      I care less about pension at this point. My focus is on pension managers and all those who stole and stealing my (our) money when the time comes. I’ll enjoy every second of the payback.

    3. SmokinOkie says:

      I’m not taking checks from Harrisburg PA, Stockton CA or any other government entity. When I haul in a load of frozen burritos for the school lunches it’s cash on the barrel head!
      And speaking of burritos, how about these old sayings…

      A piece of the pie

      The whole enchilada

      Have your cake and eat it too

      Cream of the crop

      A hill of beans

      Which side is your bread buttered on?

      Like taking candy from a baby

      Bring home the bacon

      Just stew over it

      Flat as a pancake

      Dang! Now I’m getting hungry……

    4. TEST says:

      Matthew Trewhella put it best a http://joemiller.us (if you don’t read this site, you are missing a real treat!), saying “Every good Statist knows that in order to strengthen the State — you have to weaken the family. The federal government has been imposing law and policy to accomplish that end for decades now. Meanwhile, the lower magistrates — who in a true federalism know they possess lawful authority and a duty to interpose — have decided to hide behind the lie that “A federal court has ruled, so we can do nothing but obey.”

      Most Americans no longer understand that the states were never intended to be mere provinces of the federal government. They were never intended to be mere implementation centers for unjust and immoral federal laws, policies, and court opinions.

      Herbert Schlossberg speaks to this point in his magnum opus, Idols for Destruction. He says, regarding the lesser magistrates:

      “The framers of the American Constitution were conscious of the excesses to which centralized political systems were prone, and their solution was to devise multiple levels of authority. The existence of states, cities, counties, townships, and independent taxing authorities, which, to apologists for the state, has been a messy derogation from beneficent centralized power, has saved us from some of the assaults on freedom that others have suffered.” [Herbert Schlossberg, Idols for Destruction: Christian Faith and Its Confrontation with American Society (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1983) 213.]

    5. Sgt. Dale says:

      Well I’ve been getting my pension for 10 years now from the City and for two months from the Factory I worked at. I just hope I can get my S.S. before it runs out.
      If not I’m a country boy and I will Survive!!!!
      The other thing Don’t Piss Off a Country Boy! Pay back will be a Bitch!!!!
      If the states wants to cut. Do like Arizona did. One year on EBT and State Aid for those that can work. If you can’t work and are over a certain age you get it.
      Sgt.

      • just me says:

        I don’t quite understand Sgt. I get a pension from the state but I never paid into social security (monies went to state pension fund, not SS) so I don’t get any SS back. how do you get both?

        • Sgt. Dale says:

          My Pension didn’t go to the state it went to a City retirement fund. Illinois Pension is called IMRF and I wasn’t in it. I also worked for a factory for 15 years and paid into S.S. there also. The place I work for now is the same way. I’m paying into S.S. until January. Then I’m going to collect!
          Sgt.

          • apache54 says:

            SGT.
            i am with you on the SS i can start drawing it this coming Jan. I just hope there will be something there to draw. I have paid in all these years and wish they would give a option for cash payout! with interest! HA, that will never happen! at least i have set up to live OK on SS, if i get it! IF not like you I was raised a country boy and I do survive!!!

          • TEST says:

            I sure would like to see you remain in the police as long as possible – the country unequivocally needs you!

            My close friend and neighbor is a retired IL.state trooper. I know your body gets worn out from all the physical fracases you get in, but it’s too bad you can’t do a desk job, where you could help the young people **learn** what is the right way to be a peace officer. Many young starting out in police work come out of the politically correct world, and they need the direction from someone like you. Just my two cents worth.

            Always appreciate your posts!

            • Sgt. Dale says:

              Test
              Thank you.
              It means a lot to me.
              They have burnt me out. You have to know your limitations.
              I want to get my Prep better organized and ready for the hell to come!
              Sgt.

              • Ditch Digger says:

                Aren’t you part of the problem? Do you really need to triple dip? That’s the point of the article. Government workers have been awarded much higher pension benefits than anyone else in the private sector (except for the CEO’s). And not because they work any harder or their jobs are more dangerous than others. It’s all political

        • Mike in VA says:

          I am supposed to get a pension from the power company. As of today it is okay and I will. They upped the age to be able to get insurance to 58 from 55. I have said from the beginning that I was not going to count on a pension. 6 years ago all new hires only have the 401K.
          I think I read that only 12 percent of Americans now have eligibility for a pension.

          Regarding getting both social security and a pension. If I retire at 58 I get the pension. At 62 the pension goes down the amount of social security payments. I get both but It is the same amount I start with at 58. I will take a cut in pension by retiring at 58. If I go to 60 then I have 30 years of service and be 60. Currently that will be almost so called full retirement. I will only take a small cut by going to 62.
          My gut says all this will change again by the time I reach age 58.
          My gut says it won’t be there period.

          • Braveheart says:

            Mike, I’ve been paying into SS since I was 16 and I’m 58 now. I don’t expect to ever collect a dime of what I paid into SS. The way things are shaping up, ‘normal’ times in this nation will soon be over.

            • just me says:

              I have never paid into SS, it was never even an option. I have been paying into state’s pension my whole career. Retired last year now with a fixed income for the rest of my life. Fortunately, I also put monies into my own private IRA that I can access with no penalties now but am holding off as long as I can afford to live on pension payments. I know a lot of people who look badly at those who have state pensions, like we have it made. I wish more people understood, those of us who spent our careers paying into state pensions are NOT getting SS too.

    6. Wolverine says:

      After working 30 years , the great union that I work for told me I can retire early and get a small percentage, not the full pension I was promised, so they want me to work 7 more years, when I get there , 5 more. They hope I will die so I don’t collect.
      I bet the welfare recipients are glad that the free health care, food cards, free phones, housing, and free cars and transportation is never in any danger of going broke….

      • Northern Reb says:

        Wolverine:
        I know the feeling, the factory I worked at closed and was shipped to Mexico, back in 1992, Thanks NAFTA.
        I got only 3/5 of my full pension that I promised, but I was able to start my factory pension of 22 years in January of 2015.
        I was going to retire from the factory at 60 years young with 44 year seniority.
        Because the company was bought out by the Mexican’s anyone with less than 30 years got shafted out of 2/5 of their pensions.
        S.T.S.F.P. N. Reb

    7. TEST says:

      Last I read, Dr. Lawrence Kotlikoff, of Boston U, who also served in the Treasury under Reagan, said i you took ALL unfunded liabilities together, total owing would be $222 trillion. This was a year or more ago. I’m sure you can google this for verification.

      The War on Poverty has now spent over $20 trillion. Done a really great job, hasn’t it!

      Soon, we’ll all be Detroit. Y’know, the only city you can walk 12 blocks and STILL be at the scene of the crime.

    8. 1vet says:

      My guess is we’ll have martial law soon, we’ll have attempts to confiscate arms, there’ll be no presidential election (like that mattered) and no one will even notice the checks not going out… we’ll all be too busy hanging on by a thread…

      • Juliet6 says:

        1vet – Roger that!. Viet-Nam vet here, forward air control, Cessnas – We will get the bills fro all the BS we are funding.

        Meanwhile I get nothing for the Agent Orange year long, 1968, exposure. Oh, and I lived and worked among the C-123’s “Ranch Hands”.

        Our government is more concerned about the countries that hate us and non-citizens/illegals rather than care about the GI’s or any of us lowly, hard working citizen taxpayers. Gues the feds just want the system to collapse…who knows.

        My dog gets batter care than I will ever see. That’s OK though. I care about that which cares for me.

        Moral of story: A dog, any dog, will care more about you than the federal government.

        • Enemy of the State says:

          yep them dogs are very loyal

          test

          take your spouse and lock her in the trunk , do the same with your dog.. wait 5 hours and open the trunks back up and watch which one jumps out happily to greet you

          I’d trust a dog, even a strange dog over the trust of a human any day ,, sorry i think this world is making me more and more a misanthropist as each day goes on

      • AMartinez no not that one! says:

        Makes you wonder don’t it 1vet…..

      • slingshot says:

        1vet.

        Have to smile on that one.

        Nothing but elbows and assholes in motion. ;0)

      • Kulafarmer says:

        Good guess, is going to be interesting for sure

      • Mike in VA says:

        1vet

        I so hope you are wrong. My feelings say you are right. Sooner or later something happens that is just too much. Then it all explodes.

        • apache54 says:

          ALL,
          I fear that it will happen soon too. there is just to many signs saying YES it will and i think it will be a BIG collapse, with long term effects and many of the pop. will perish. I like you hope we are wrong and i at least can draw some SS. for awhile BUT i am not counting on it!

          • passinwiththewind says:

            Although not asked for; and in most folks minds, gladly wishing I would go away, I’m once again giving my .02 worth.

            As life spans are increasing, and at 10,000 boomer generationals retiring each and every day; the debt of SS payments and public pensions are staggering.

            The keepers of the coffers have pilfered away our nations savings and investments. They know it and don’t care.

            Therefore, the only way they can get out of the scam they created, is by causing the whole mess to implode like an old ten story hotel built in the early 1900’s, that needs removing.

            When it implodes, and it will; the amount of pensions,SS payments, entitlements of every kind, will become….zero for a long while.

            Even if it were decreased by half, what has happened to the banks that receive those funds? Locked down?
            What happened to the US Postal Service that used to deliver the payments by check/paper. Locked down?

            Yea I see a Nation, devoid of holding up to it’s responsibilities as the $$ issuer of entitlements.
            The only thing I see on the horizon for retirees and pensioners, is bread lines, and soup kitchens.

            Then….Enter the Dragon. The masked crusader of the Age will arrive calling himself the Messiah.
            He will have an answer for everything and everything will be alright, because he comes in “peacefully and prosperously”.

            His message…”worship me and i will put a chicken in every pot and a new Chevy Volt in your garage”. Don’t worry about payments, cause I am the creator and i will cover the bill. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line, confirming that you have sold your soul to my kingdom. Better hurry up, cause time is running out and the rapture train is about to depart this planet”.

            The whole world will “whore after the beast”.

            Basically, this means the “majority”, will follow his every word as truth, because they think he is the “Word”, and because of their desire for “stuff”, will worship him. That in a nutshell, my friends is “taking the mark”. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know what happens to the marked ones.

            So you see, there is no world/people, governments coming back to life. No backside to the collapse as some cling and hope for. The only backside to the beast system, is the end of a World Age, and what follows.

            The question is, will you play a part in the next Age?

            pwtw

    9. Anonymous says:

      hey can someone direct me to a site that will tell me how this would possibly affect canada, i’ve found nothing and its slightly annoying. 🙂 thanks

    10. paris says:

      does anyone know of any site that shows how Canada would be involved in all of this? i’ve found nothing and its kinda annoying. 🙂 thnx

    11. Plan twice, prep once says:

      Pension funds are normally constructed by purchasing annuities via insurance companies.

      Used to be the insurance industry could provide annuities that provided a 7 to 9% return and insure the money. At that rate the base investment doubles every 4 years give or take. The money grows like crazy, that’s why retirement plans could claim such great return at retirement.

      Since 2008 interest rates have been near zero. The insurance industry can’t produce the return needed for annuities. This is destroying retirement plans across the US.

      Beware it is also destroying the insurance industry that uses the same annuities in their business model to finance claims made against policies. Many believe the insurance industry will collapse in the next year or two if interest rates stay low, sooner if the stock market crashes since that is their only investment alternative currently.

      The insurance industry is vastly larger than the banking industry, if they collapse, it’ll devastate the economy. Insurance companies operate most retirement plans public and private, they insure banks, corporations, they are woven deeply into the the entire financial structure of the western world.

      If interest rates rise even a little, the insurance industry is toast. If interest rates rose a lot, they won’t have anything left to invest using those higher rates. Higher rates will also bankrupt the US government. We are currently sliding into deflation that will also bankrupt the US government and the insurance industry.

      Loose, loose, loose, loose!

      • Northern Reb says:

        Plan Twice:
        You are 10,000% correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        The crash is going to happen.
        When it’s a your guess is as good as mine or any one else, but it is going to happen and I believe soon!;-{
        S.T.S.F.P. N.Reb

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          I suspect that any contrivance to keep the economy afloat is seductive to Washington politicians.

          They are all in panic mode, thus they passed TPTA and all it’s varients in one swift move.

          They full well know they have sold American sovereignty for a few more months extension (in their political jobs) before the crash.

          Obama is also acting like a cornered animal?

          They all know the titanic has hit the iceberg and is sinking, the band on Wall Street keeps playing, while the rich board the few remaining lifeboats!

      • TEST says:

        Just a note. Rule of 72 means return of 7 percent will take over 10 years to double.

      • Mike in VA says:

        If interest rate’s rise then that is the end. The government will go down in flames.

      • TnAndy says:

        Plan Twice:

        Rule of 72: Divide 72 by the rate of return = number of years to double.

        72/7= 10+ years

        72/9= 8 years

        The rest of your post I agree with.

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          Absolutely correct. My bad. I was thinking in terms of a continuous compounding and growth with additional and regular continued contributions. Not a single deposit.

          Notice on a single deposit at the current interest rate of 1.5% it’ll take 48 years to double the money just once. At 7 % you’d double and redouble etc. nearly 5 times in the same 48 years.
          So a $1000 becomes 2k, then 4k, 8k, 16k, and finally $ 32,000. How could any financial plan make up the difference.

      • Enemy of the State says:

        If the insurance industry sees that they are about to go belly up , guess who gets the bill? we do.. in the form of higher insurance rates, you can bet the insurance industry will never lose , as they never lose currently

        definitely have your eyes on them

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          The insurance industry is many times larger than the banking industry.

          There really isn’t enough money anywhere to bail them out.

          We already watched the business model for banking in the Western World be totally destroyed in the 2008 crash. They not only never fixed the underlying systemic problems, the whole industry is still broken.

          The FED has no more tricks up their sleeves. It’s done, stick a fork in it. The only thing keeping the banks afloat is borrowed money they play with on Walk Street. Now you are expecting someone to bail out the insurance industry that has had a broken business model since 2008? But no one will admit they even have a problem as the sun slowly sets on them!

          Holy end of the world as we know it Batman!

    12. Northern Reb says:

      The whole world is on a tipping point right now. Just look at Greece and you will see what is going to happen very soon across the world. No pension payments, No welfare payments, No withdrawals from the banks, No services paid for,(Police, Firemen, Garbage men, Teachers, Clean Water, Sewer System. ECT…) No credit, No borrowing, ECT…CAN YOU SAY DEFUALT!!!
      When it happens LOOKOUT!!! Katie, bar the door TSWHTF. Riots, Big cities burning, people being forced into camps and they will go freely, cause they have no food or water. Bands of thugs and mopes robbing, raping, killing, just because they know that there will be no real law other than the law of the home owner and prepper.
      So get ready now, Bullets, Guns (and be ready to use them), Beans, Band aids, Water, Medications and silver or gold,(if you can afford it). Most of all find a like mind group of people that will take care of each other.
      I’m still working I have still have 7 more months before I can draw my S.S., that I have been paying into for 45 years. I know that, that money is paying for my folks and some of you here that’s ok with me as long as I can have a little piece of that S.S. pie when I retire.
      It will be my luck everything goes down the tubes right before I retire and I will not get sh&%!! Oh well that’s life!;-{
      S.T.S.F.P. N. Reb

      • sluggo says:

        “Most of all find a like mind group of people that will take care of each other.”

        this will be huge when it all falls apart. I have a buddy who hasn’t done well financially since getting out of the service but he’s a man of solid character and proven ability. The other day we went to the range to sight in a couple of rifles and he was happy to help. I asked him which optic he preferred (red dot v scope) and he asked why did it matter which one he liked as they were both mine. I told him he was wrong and explained that when it all falls apart he needs to report, with his wife and child, for duty to my place and claim “his” rifle and gear. I’ve never seen him so emotional and full of gratitude.

        I am fortunate and have the money to buy things and make preparations. He doesn’t – but what he does have are skills and courage and experience. It took a while but I finally convinced him the I am the one getting the better part of the bargain…

        • Warchild Dammit! says:

          Sluggo,get him a ACOG!I will agree you are getting the better part of bargain,that said,you are giving him a chance he might not otherwise have in tough times,say a win-win.

      • apache54 says:

        Northern Reb,
        seems like countries always resort to WAR, build back up! and there are SOOOOO many on the brink of war at the moment it is sure to happen, PLUS it is the NWO wanting the POP. lowered and that it is by design, and again like you i an sooo close to drawing some SS, but probably won’t get it! makes me sick and if it does happen ( collapse) lots of us will be looking for pay back!!

      • Braveheart says:

        NR, DING, DING, DING, DING! We have a winner! It’s possible I could be bugging out early. We’ll see. I feel things won’t stay ‘normal’ for much longer.

      • The Old Coach says:

        Greece is likely to sell itself to the Russians. The Russians will pay anything to have a port facility on the Mediterranean. They might even forget about Ukraine.

    13. TEST says:

      “Socialism (lit gouvernement) is the great fiction, whereby everybody endeavours to live off of everybody else.”
      – Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

      And,why, yes, you are indeed correct. Leftists have NO clue why this has never worked, WILL never work and CAN never work

      • sharonsj says:

        Actually, Socialism works quite well in a number of countries. But I see facts are not your strong point. The top 10 Socialistic countries are: China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand and Belgium.

        Despite popular myths, there is very little connection between economic performance and welfare expenditure. Many of the countries on this list are proof of that, such as Denmark and Finland. Even though both countries are more socialistic than America, the workforce remains stronger.

    14. TEST says:

      Apocryphal, but still a fun story: In the late 1970s, Leonid Brezhnev’s elderly grandmother, who had lived in pre-communist Russia, comes to visit him at his communist headquarters. Leonid is beaming with pride as he introduces her to all his aides and servants, shows her his gold plated desk, his 15 Zil limousines waiting, all with engines running, pictures of all his well-appointed dachas in exclusive, VIP areas across the USSR, etc.

      Finally, at the end of the day, all the assistants, aides and servants leave. The old granny very nervously and carefully looks around to make sure absolutely no one is anywhere near, then leans over and very, VERY quietly whispers in Leonid’s ear:

      “This is all very well, Leonid…. BUT WHAT IF THE COMMUNISTS COME!?!?”

    15. Joe Maybe says:

      What is going to occur in this country ( sooner rather than later )is going to go in the history books as probably the worst disaster to hit any country in the history of mankind. The whole thing is surreal…….

    16. rabid white rabit says:

      LET THEM… EAT THE RICH!

      *One only has to look at South Africa to see the future of Amerika. the poor will literally EAT THE RICH, as is now happening in ANC Communist controlled South Africa.

      rwr

    17. Mike in VA says:

      Does it bother anyone that we all payed into social security. I have paid in for 32 years. It would not bother me if it were an account for me. The problem is it was just for the government to take and claim that it was an untouchable social security fund.
      Evil greedy bastards.
      Never again can we set up a system that relies on anything except the individual.

    18. ponomo says:

      WDC needs to be deported to Zimbabwe.

    19. TnAndy says:

      Don’t worry about Social Security. They will simply print up enough to pay it. Then you can worry about what that will buy.

      State and local govts don’t have that luxury, and are screwed.

      As for individuals, 401k’s invested in stocks and bonds won’t be worth a hill of beans when stocks and bonds are worthless.

      The BEST long term ‘investment’ is what is has always been:

      Enough land to provide your food, fuel, water, etc, and your ability/tools to use it. Folks with those will hurt the least in the long run. Gold and silver coins once you have the first in place.

      All the rest is merely paper (or digital) promises that can vanish in the wind.

    20. PO'd Patriot says:

      Mike, I’m still payin’ in after payin’ in for forty-four years. I’m going to get what due me either in this life before I’m done or the next. POP.

    21. aljamo says:

      California is a real dirty joke when it comes to paying out pensions and unemployment benefits with any credibility. My sister worked for the employment office there for less than 20 years reviewing unemployment claims, with only a tenth grade education and getting the job because some male superior there liked her. She now pulls in over three thousand a month from that job. After she retired because of inability to work after getting so fat, she then made a claim for unemployment benefits saying she worked for a friend of hers, while in reality never working a single day. The state payed her over 35 grand in benefits before someone questioned her receiving them. The state then took her to court to get payback of those funds. She went before a judge who was a big fat diabetic like her and whined her case. He forgave the debt. Now she is past 62 years and another 1,600 dollars come her way. Multiple this fraud by millions and there is your collapse.

    22. 1vet says:

      Hey!, what could go wrong???

      We got “mitch” and the “boner” in washinton looking out for our interests. We got “rand” channeling “pelosi” and talk about talent!!-she’s not even dead!!!

      We got Obama in the west wing, michelle running round the oval, chelsea overseeing the foundation, hillary deleting e-mails, obamatrade resurrected by the repubics…

      We got jade helm tremors, we got obamaphones in stereo, we got open borders with get out of jail cards for free, we got police killing dogs (that Pomeranian was a killer!)…

      We got government controlled school lunches, we got no more Pledge of Allegiance, we got mandatory vaccinations, we got chem trails overhead, we got teachers sexing students, we got obamacare fixing the problem…

      We got the TPP, TPA, FBI, CIA, IRS, BLM, EPA, DMV, NBC, DOD, DOA, DOE, AMA…

      We got 18trillion in debt, we got the fed in the chair, we got the sallie mae and the freddy mack, we got no inflation, we got a west coast drought, we got the fukishema…

      We got putin playing cards, we got kim jong-un too, we got greece playing solitaire, we got self defense illegal in the u.k…

      and I wish it wasn’t true.

    23. 1vet says:

      Stick a fork in her, she’s done…

    24. Warchild Dammit! says:

      Perhaps Vet,but,those of us paying attention have so much more,including little patience and the memories of elephants.

    25. Anonymous says:

      Baby Boomers, you won’t have as bright a retirement as you anticipated but will be able to at least get by.

      Gen X, you’ll have to make severe cutbacks and what has applied in the past will no longer apply in the future, be quick or be dead (financially).

      Gen Why, you have no future. That’s why they call you Gen Why.

      Get used to it, it can’t be changed.

      • Yahooie says:

        Boomers are the generation of the broken promises. Promises made to us by the “greatest” generation. However, behind our backs, pensions were quietly taken away and replaced with 401ks which, unless you had super career, will never pay what a pension would have. Never mind that these were introduced to us in the middle of our working life so there never will be much of a payout.

        Add to all that the problems of many single parents. That concept was introduced to the generation of free love; we didn’t invent it. Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, and others brought the ERA and feminism concepts into the public arena while even the earliest Boomers were just beginning college or their working life.

        I have attempted to describe this Broken Promise concept to members of the greatest generation numerous times over the years. They never understood what I was saying. All I knew is the wonderful things they found in the 50s and 60s in life and then retirement would never be found for the Boomers aside from some few exceptions.

        The Boomer’s children and later generations will think we have it made. Not really. I saw through the sham that was foisted on us and still can’t make anyone understand. I will be okay though. My eventual retirement won’t be glamorous but I’ll be fine because my old-fashioned standards have served me well. Prepping does have its perks. 🙂

        • John Renshaw says:

          Yep the baby boomers ruined all the hard work of their parents. Now in a few years they will be locked up a government run home. Their kids will be in an apartment spending what little money they have on their dog or cat. Their grand kids will be in a liberal run school with half the kids speaking only Spanish. So I guess they will get what they deserve in the end.

    26. gov.job says:

      I started applying for gov jobs last year. Hope to get one. What I’ve seen is pay rates are about the same as normal jobs BUT they ALSO have retirement: making them effectively about twice as much. When you calculate how little they work (no unpaid mandatory OT every week, no expectation to work 8AM to 8PM, lots of vacation and holidays, etc) and the fact they don’t seem to do 1/20th the work a normal worker does in my field, then it seems like the actual $/hr worked is like 4x to 10x what I make. So, still trying to get a gov.job and move over to easy street.

    27. Warchild Dammit! says:

      Morpheus: “Warchild,you take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.”
      Warchild:”I will take both pills.”

    28. Anonymous says:

      posted for all who think children should be allowed to ‘free range’!

      attack – youth attacks child – Bradford

      image: http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/u/u/ll2/mobile_icon.png
      [Mobile App Upload]

      This attack happened this morning in the Bradford area. Screenshots on the Facebook profile it was taken from said that the youth carrying out the attack did it because the young boy called him a name and ran off.

      Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db4_1434715877#Sqc3cOcMX2PmkcCj.99

    29. Anonymous says:

      went to the grocery store today and was shocked at the summer food prices.

      people are going to riot this summer over the price of food!

    30. TEST says:

      How we got here, parte trois:

      “[N]either the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.”

      —Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749

      Now, back to having third graders read Heather’s Two Mommies and and having them put condoms on cucumbers….

    31. The Prophet says:

      Taxes will keep going up. Your tax dollars will be given to more “deserving people”. People that don’t think like us. There are more of them and they can vote new taxes on you. The South was smaller, had less industry, had a smaller population than the North, but the South was paying 75% of all federal revenues when they decided to secede.

      • Warchild Dammit! says:

        Go Galt!Work under table/barter/trade/where possible grow own food/use alt energy were possible,many can do to help take at least a few crumbs from the beast,we need a lot of folks doing this,as they are only crumbs seems a waste,but,as a wise man said(ad naseam),”The smalls add up!”.

    32. TEST says:

      When all is said and done, there are three ways out of this conundrum (unless you have 10% growth/yr, which ain’t gonna happen). You can combine the three, but you MUST choose from this menu. There ARE no other choices:

      a.) You can print money
      b.) You can raise taxes
      c.) You can cut services

      Yes, they will to all three; however, there will probably be a bias one way or the other. The point is, the LEFT put us in thi predicament to begin with. As Dr. Arthur Brooks of Syracuse Univ., has pointed out in his incredible book, Who Really Cares, all the left ultimately does is **impoverish**. That is why you see the leftist cronies madly scrambling about for money – including all the Hollywierd Learjet leftists.

    33. Warchild Dammit! says:

      Divorce sucks but this is awsome!: ht tp://bgr.com/2015/06/19/revenge-on-ex-wife-ideas/

    34. TPSnodgrass says:

      CALPERS, which MOST state, municipal and county employees pay into, and ostensibly their employers are to do also, is hopelessly underfunded by more than 5 BiLLION dollars as of 2012. It is far worse now. While the employees are forced to pay their share of their percentage of their salary into the system, their cities, counties usually are many YEARS in arrears. When I left the public sector in law enforcment, CLAPERS asked me IF, I wanted to take a lump sum instead of the lifetime monthly benefit. Of course I took the financial hit and got all of my money out that I could, which is far more than most retirees are getting or will get when the system goes broke officially.(which it will) Put it into my own personally controlled 401K program in precious metals that I have physical control over. Never looked back. Kept on financially prepping as well, figure that if you do not physically own it, have it in YOUR possession, you won’t get it when the mandated “haircuts” start. We keep only a small amount in our few bank accounts, enough to pay the bills and that’s it. I’ve never been a fan of “institutional haircuts”.

     
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