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Strategic Relocation Brief: A Five Star Rated State for Your Survival Retreat

Joel Skousen
July 11th, 2014
Strategic Relocation
Comments (672)
Read by 46,828 people

Editor’s Note: The following article comes to us from our friends at Strategic Relocation and has been contributed by well known relocation specialist Joel Skousen. As is usually the case with Mr. Skousen’s highly informative briefs, this one touches on some key points to be digested by anyone looking to leave the big city in search of greener pastures outside of America’s high population density centers. This week’s brief focuses on one of two states rated by Skousen as a 5-start retreat location based on a variety of factors that include everything from environmental concerns like water availability and climate, to like-mindedness and security. Though this review centers in large part on Northern Idaho, the many variables involved in finding your perfect home are discussed and can be applied to potential retreat locations anywhere in the country.

When you’re ready to relocate you can explore your options at the strategic relocation For Sale By Owner web site and find nationwide real estate listings that include survivability ratings and everything a prepper, homesteader, or survivalist might need to help make an informed decision.

In addition to top-notch analysis and guidance, we recommend visiting the Strategic Relocation Blog to find a host of essential service offerings from U.S.-based companies like Iron Edison (producer of leading solar energy systems) and Ever Logs (manufacturer of concrete ballistic homes).


This Week’s Strategic Relocation Briefing
By Joel Skousen, author, Strategic Relocation—North American Guide to Safe Places

Note:  Mr. Skousen has been asked to do a weekly column on different places of interest to people looking to relocate for security, both in the US, Canada and abroad –for those interested in international retreats. Be sure and check back each week for more detailed analysis of great safe places and check out Mr. Skousen’s plethora of published works at www.JoelSkousen.com . Thank you Joel!

Idaho-National-Forest
(Image: Sawtooth National Forest, Idaho)

INTRODUCTION:

As you contemplate relocation to a safe area you should carefully consider what threats you are seeking to mitigate.  I cover the full range of threats in Strategic Relocation—including some very serious ones that few have on their radar (a future nuclear world war with Russia and China, for example). In your assessment you need to consider many competing factors, including acceptable climate, distance to town and needed services, neighbors, physical safety from potential refugees and lawlessness, and how to do all this while maintaining your financial lifeline. —Not an easy task.

Both Todd Savage and Nick Matthews of Survival Retreat Consulting (SRC) and I spend a lot of time with our separate consulting clients trying to balance out these conflicting needs of safety and security with location and convenience during good times. For most people, having a full time residence/retreat close to a small or medium sized town satisfies most of their criteria.  Others, who need to be closer, or in town for work, should establish a semi-rural suburban residence for convenience and a separate retreat or rural farm for ultimate safety.

The more rural you are, the higher the cost of building, maintaining equipment and commuting to civilization—and, the higher your expenses for services including utilities, alternate energy and internet connectivity.  The more your priorities emphasize closeness to a community, the higher your risks will be during a social meltdown, and the more precise must be your preparations to bug out to a separate retreat. So, as you see, there are always compromises in life, no matter if you spend $50,000 on your property or millions, there is no perfect property that will meet all your criteria. Focus on what’s most important for you, your family and/or group.

NORTHERN IDAHO (Panhandle Only)

My discussion this first week will be limited to the northern most counties of Idaho (Bonner, and Boundary counties), which constitute the true narrow panhandle of the state of Idaho. This area differs in important ways from the broader area to the south from Coeur d’Alene down through McCall, Id., which I will cover in another briefing.

In many ways this northern panhandle of Idaho is one of my favorite areas in all of the United States because it combines distance from large population centers, good forestation at low altitudes, plenty of water for agriculture, and very low government regulation for building permits.  If there is any downside, it is its far northern latitude that brings very cold winter weather, although there are noted microclimates in Boundary County.  The occasional heavy snowfall, however, is clearly a benefit (as in all the Rockies), because that provides the reserve of water to grow fir trees, and fills the lakes and aquifers that abound in the area.

This area has unique geographic features that determine the weather patterns. The Idaho mountains are close enough to the Pacific coastal areas that the panhandle receives waves of moisture from the Pacific Maritime flow during October through April when the storms are strong enough to push through and over the Rockies—giving northern Idaho constant cloudy and rainy weather—just like the Pacific Northwest. But during the late spring and summer, those storms are weaker and reach the Idaho Panhandle less often yielding very nice summer weather. The other great feature of this area, and a product of the adequate rainfall, is the predominance of pine and fir forests at low elevations, which is a much sought after feature in my retreat philosophy, not only for beauty but for creating a private homestead.

Let’s discuss this area in terms of convenience and amenities. If you’re in need of providing outside extracurricular activities to children (or adults), locate near the town of Sandpoint in Bonner County.  If you choose the larger city to the south (Coeur D’ Alene), in Kootenai county—which has the most to offer—be aware that there is much less security, more building regulation, and more much crime as well. Sandpoint offers excellent skiing in the winter and spectacular boating and fishing on Lake Pend Oreille in the summer. It’s important to thrive when you relocate, as well as survive.

From a security standpoint, Boundary County to the north is even more remote. The main threat from social unrest and the resulting refugee flows comes from I-90 which will channel people from Seattle into Spokane—the largest city in Eastern Washington, and right on the Idaho border.  From there, it will channel refugees into Coeur d’Alene. Fortunately, there are a eight key tactical points that may slow or stop travel northward to Sandpoint and then to Boundary County, including a number of bridges SEE MAP.  Remember, that it is actually beneficial for your safety to have numerous towns between your location and major cities, to absorb refugees.

NorIdaho-small
(click for larger image)

Northern Idaho has an abundance of water from streams, creeks, rivers and lakes; you can’t go wrong searching for a great property there. However, there are several spots within these counties due to geologic factors that don’t provide economical well water—either low flow or too deep (very costly). For example, the Paradise Valley bench outside Bonners Ferry is a spectacular spot, for both sun exposure and food production, however there is a layer of silt that can be as deep as 700 feet before hitting the water table. The local community has tapped into a large aquifer on the bench and built a community system that is fed by this aquifer. These seem to work fine and the only improvement you would have to consider if you tap into the community system is to install a cistern to store water, or drill your own well if funds are available, for back up.

There are some areas up the Upper Pack River Road just north of Sandpoint, that have very low producing wells (1/4 gallon per minute) on one side of the road and the other wells are at acceptable flow rates. This not to say not to look in these areas, just ask your Prepper Realtor or Consultant to pull well logs for the surrounding properties before your final property selection and subsequent purchase.

If you’re looking for both security and water then several main retreat areas come to mind that may work for you. Not in any order they are as follows;

First, along District Two Road just north and running east of the bridge in Bonners Ferry is some of the most fertile ground in the county along with the North Bench and Kootenai River bottom heading towards Porthill, Idaho along the Kootenai River. You will have to ascertain your risk level of being about 63 miles down stream from the Libby dam (which has had previous seismic issues) and the rate of flooding should the dam give way for any reason. There is a spectacular retreat for sale at the end of District Two Road. It features varied terrain from cliffs to many acres of fertile and defensible ground, and 4000 feet of Kootenai River frontage. This spectacular retreat is located 2 miles past a locked gate at the end of the county road. The Point Retreat will meet even the most discerning Preppers retreat shopping criteria.

As the Kootenai River runs north the large fertile basin on both sides of highway 95, as it heads toward the Canadian border. The Eastport area is higher in elevation and the growing season is shorter, although there are several retreats just south of Eastport that have spectacular water and defensibility. Staying on the west side and going north on Highway 1 to the Porthill border crossing is some of the most spectacular views and property in all of Boundary county. The growing season on the North Bench near Porthill is better with good sun exposure and abundant water from spring runoff from the mountains. Several such gravity fed springs make up a local community water system in Porthill that is gravity fed to the under 100 residents.

The next area is the Katka Mountain region, several miles east of Bonners Ferry and up the mountain on Two Tail Road. There is abundant water on most properties and they are very defensible, with only the Katka Mountain Road as ingress/egress from that area. The Meadow Creek Road region just off Highway 2 and heading north to the Canadian border is a wonderful retreat area as well.

Another recommendation is north of the Kootenai River on Old Highway 2 Loop road area just east of Moyie Springs, Idaho. However, properties are few and far between on both Meadow Creek and Old Highway 2 Loop, and when the good Prepper properties come for sale they go quickly. Staying north of the Kootenai River in Bonners Ferry is highly recommended, if possible. Give United Country – Strategic Relocation Realty™ a call, as they are my recommended experts on Rural Sustainable Properties in Northern Idaho and are very helpful.

In Bonner County, the Selle Valley area is a wonderful location known for excellent growing, sun exposure and on most properties, live year round water and some springs, depending upon property location. This is a great area for those that may want to be closer to town for various reasons and enjoy a bit more interaction in the town of Sandpoint (pop 9500).

There are a lot of higher altitude areas that are not suitable for growing, but make excellent high-security retreats. Be aware that some snow levels can reach over 20 feet plus, so be sure to ask neighbors as you identify properties and pay attention to elevation and snowfall records. It’s very important to seek advice about winter weather in North Idaho, as slight variations make a huge difference. The lowest elevation in the County is at the Porthill river crossing at about 1754 feet above sea level, which has only slight to moderate snowfall—with allot of rain in the winter, like downtown Bonners Ferry. But just a hundred and fifty feet or so of elevation change can change that rain to snow and it’s a different ballgame.

Sandpoint offers a wide variety of multi-cultural restaurants and entertainment venues. It has an old town atmosphere and even has a local city beach. Security concerns during good times are limited to petty crimes with violent crimes few and far between, as you would expect from a small rural town anywhere USA. For a post-collapse scenario, there is still the Sandpoint Long Bridge over Lake Pend Oreille and the Newport Bridge to help slow and stop any moving threat.

These northern two counties of Idaho are very conservative and libertarian, and differ significantly from the politics of Coeur d’Alene to the south which is fairly liberal, having been a retirement destination for liberals from California, Oregon and Washington. They bring with them their acceptance of government control and thus Coeur d’Alene city and Kootenai County have the full range of building and planning restrictions just like other large cities.

In stark contrast, in both Bonner and Boundary counties to the north you don’t have to submit your formal house plans to the county.  What is required is very minor—a Residential Placement Permit, which requires a $35 fee. The application does not require the divulgence of your building plans, so your safe rooms and storage will not be public record and subject to scrutiny. It simply asks among other mundane items for the ‘footprint’ of the buildings and distance to property lines.

But you do have to apply for a state electrical and plumbing permit in both counties—because it’s a statewide requirement to have an electrical inspection and a plumbing inspection, administered through the Idaho Division of Building Safety.  If you are installing a septic system, a permit is also required from Panhandle Health; if you are drilling a well, a permit is required from the Idaho Department of Water Resources; and if you are building a new driveway connecting to a county road, a permit from County Road and Bridge is required. On the surface that’s about it, but there are a few more items to pay attention to, such as;

Before beginning construction or installation of a residential structure, it is necessary to make application for a residential placement permit, which is pretty benign. Boundary County wants to ensure that the parcel meets the minimum lot size for the zone district in which construction is taking place or that the parcel is a legal non-conforming lot of record, that set-back requirements are met, that the property where the home is being placed does not lie within wetland or flood zones identified by the Federal Emergency.  In Boundary County, this is literally a one-man show: Walk in and talk to Dan Studer (208-267-7212) and chat about the parcel and placement before making the one page application. It’s really that simple.

Subdividing Property, if you need to, is a simple process as well, depending upon the parcels location and current zoning. A simple subdivision application (to divide an un-platted parcel into five or fewer parcels, each meeting minimum parcel size within the zone district and each with approved driveway access to an existing public street or road) in Boundary County can still be HAND DRAWN on a one-page application! However, in the last 10 years the county has adopted quite an extensive set of rules and regulations for smaller parcel subdivisions, and if your property falls into the ‘subdivision ordinance’, it’s best to do your homework before making a larger land purchase in hopes of splitting it up.

If you plan to build a fully sustainable retreat (off-grid, alternative energy) and wish not to have a state inspector in your home, you can purchase your supplies and then hire a local state certified contractor to do the install and sign-off for you. This applies to your plumbing and septic as well.

Bonner County, Idaho (Sandpoint), is very similar in requirements, with several additions, which will impact those of you that intend to build safe rooms and storage in your new home.  First, Bonner County requires a Building Location Permit with Diagrammatic floor plans and elevations of the structure in sufficient detail to identify the size and use of all components and floors of the structure, stamped by Panhandle Health (septic permits). But, as I point out in my design book on the Secure Home, you simply show a room labeled “storage” on the plans—nothing else. This is an easy solution if you have found a great parcel in Bonner County.

The entire region is very beautiful, with lots of mountains, lakes and rivers for recreation like camping, mountain biking, hiking, hunting and fishing.  Soils range from sandy loam to clayish, and are of sufficient depth in most areas that building a basement is not a problem. There are some areas that are very rocky, so be sure to ascertain this before any purchase. It is so important to have concealed basement space in a retreat that I never recommend any piece of property that doesn’t have good basement potential.

I find most of the people in the area open and friendly, generally, with a strong mix of religious conservatives and libertarians, but as in all rural areas, you find a few strange ones.  I would be remiss not to mention that this area was home to the Aryan Nations Neo-Nazi compound of Pastor Richard Butler in Hayden Lake. Although I wholeheartedly disagree with their racist beliefs, I did interview him and his cohorts many years ago and came away with evidence that this was an infiltrated government operation meant to tarnish the reputation of all conservative dissidents everywhere, just like the Ruby Ridge fiasco which also happened in Boundary County. Butler died in 2004 and his followers were run out of the county by a lawsuit and the compound was torn down.

I only mention this in an otherwise very positive assessment because people ask me about this fairly often, and don’t want my readers to feel cheated that I didn’t tell them what I know. Even though Butler and his Neo Nazis are gone, one of Butler’s followers, Shaun Winkler, purchased another piece of timberland recently in the Hoodoo Mountains and is trying to resurrect the movement. The good news is, however, that his attempt is looking like a failure. He’s only got a handful of followers, little money, and his contract for the land is reportedly being foreclosed on, thankfully, they should be gone forever soon.

Realistically, this kind of extremist association, often driven by government agent provocateurs, is something we have to deal with in any highly sought after retreat area—and one of the prime reasons I caution against joining formal survivalist or militia organizations that draw the attention of government.  Build your own informal network of people you trust.

Summary comments:  Idaho is one of two 5 star (out of a possible 5) rated states in Strategic Relocation. Northern Idaho may be a bit too far away as a pure bug-out retreat location for those having to keep their main residence in cities more than a day’s drive away (not counting private pilots), but it is ideal for those looking for a new main residence or retreat combination in the safety of the far west. You will be surrounded by spectacular beauty, good access to moderate sized cities without urban blight, and be amongst a significant concentration of like-minded people with family values.  Also of high importance—the Pacific Northwest, in general, is very open minded, so their acceptance for quality newcomers is high.

Be sure to check out www.StrategicRelocation.com™ the new Survival Property For Sale Site we started last week for new retreat listings. Pass the word; let’s bring aboard you favorite Prepper Realtors and FSBO properties from around the globe to this new venue!

I’m proud to announce that Nick Matthews has been named the new Worldwide Operations Manager for Survival Retreat Consulting as they expand outside the American Redoubt. Nick brings years of experience to the SRC team as an officer and a Bronze Star recipient from his combat action overseas with the U.S Army. You may see Nick’s bio HERE. Congratulations Nick.

Next Week: We’ll take you south of the Border to examine the most popular expatriate destination in the Americas—Costa Rica


When you’re ready to relocate you can explore your options at the strategic relocation For Sale By Owner web site and find nationwide real estate listings that include survivability ratings and everything a prepper, homesteader, or survivalist might need to help make an informed decision.

In addition to top-notch analysis and guidance, we recommend visiting the Strategic Relocation Blog to find a host of essential service offerings from U.S.-based companies like Iron Edison (producer of leading solar energy systems) and Ever Logs (manufacturer of concrete ballistic homes).

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Author: Joel Skousen
Views: Read by 46,828 people
Date: July 11th, 2014
Website: http://www.strategicrelocation.com/

Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

672 Comments...

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  1. eppe says:

    Makes one wonder, where is one TRUELY safe????

    • Be informed says:

      @ eppe. The truly only safe place is OFF the planet. Unless you have an interstellar spacecraft or can convince ET to give you a lift, the next best places are the SAFER locations. In case of nuclear war this is between 10 degrees north and 10 degrees south of the equator. With society collapsing, extreme isolation like the above article describes as one of the places to go. With a deadly virus, not only extreme isolation, but also where you can have a lot of natural remedies available in case the virus or bacteria is air borne beyond the host.

      Talking about deadly viruses. Those smallpox samples that were suppose to be dead, two virals were alive:

      http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/11/health/smallpox-found-nih-alive/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

      I have said this for a long time, a think dead bodies can keep samllpox alive and one of these unearthings is going to prove this. Could be a cemetary being dug up, or even some ancient mummy. We are living in the end times and nothing should surprise anyone.

      • eppe says:

        Amen BI, there is no truely safe place in the planet, that was what I was trying to convey. Even my bol has it’s own hazards, but they are minimum, compared to urban spots…

        • Jasmine says:

          Having read this article, and the other one recently by Todd Stevens, I’m thinking this is too much self promotion, particularly by the Boys from the Redoubt. I do not include Mr. Skousen in this group. The comments posted indicate much of what I think of the Boys from the Redoubt. Unrealistic prices, elitist attitudes, and all is well in the Redoubt until you pull back the thin veneer and see some of the history underneath. Many of the comments posted below have convinced me that it is often best to stay in the area you are familiar with because the people, weather, customs, culture are familiar and not something to adapt to under a stressful SHTF situation. Yep I can just hear Smokin’ Okie talking to folks in northern Idaho!!!!! Furthermore, not many people can afford the luxury of these fancy retreats. It may not be the best use of our financial resources. Stewardship of our finances is a responsibility if we are to have a chance of preparing and getting through a difficult situation. I wish Mac wouldn’t have gone this route. There is no need to as these guys already have their own websites.

          • passinwiththewind says:

            Any bol can be safe if…..

            It is far enough away from a large city

            It has plenty of natural resources and not enough population to devour them within a few months

            Not prone to flooding

            Not prone to earthquakes

            All the above; with a climate and soil that is adequate enough for gardening.

            Counting on friends, relatives, and neighbors as part of a bol security plan is like a crap shoot. When provisions and the food pantry starts getting low, and the daily meals are measured in spoonfuls instead of cups; look for minds to start weakening and support to turn into animosity. Things could get very ugly and very bloody in a New York minute.

            In other words; it will be every man/woman for themselves.

            Communal style living ain’t for me and the little woman. Her daughter will be about the only addition to our bol.

            Choices for bol???? Oh how I have pondered that question. We live in the mountainous region of the Appalachian chain. I have thought about relocating to the Rockies.

            Anyone relocating there without knowledge of backcountry skills and how to deal with animals that can kill you within seconds; had better think twice. Living in a tent or makeshift cabin is flirting with disaster. Living without big guns in those areas is flirting with disaster.

            I have thought about moving to a remote part of Florida. Why would a mountain man move to a swampy area?

            First and foremost; there is plenty of food. Fish, frogs, and snakes are just steps away, in most remote wetland areas. They are there 365 days a year, along with deer and pigs. Plus many more edible things, including plants. Most folks won’t venture far into remote wetlands, so interaction would be minimal.
            Needing to keep from freezing to death would be a minor concern.

            My concern is flooding. If the New Madrid Fault erupts into a major shift causing a split in the US up to the Great lakes and the Oceans rise by 25 ft or more…. Well, it’s a long phucking paddle back to the mountains.

            It’s all about choices and odds. Pick where you feel is most advantageous to you and yours, for survival. Don’t get sucked into someone else’s definition of the best bol; more importantly, don’t get financially screwed by a so-called “expert” that makes a living selling “hype”.

            PWTW

            • Mark says:

              Hello Passin, You are right about the swamp areas having an unlimited supply of food if you know what you are doing but I think south Louisana would be a better swamp because it isn’t as prone to flooding by tsunamis and hurricanes. I, being born and raised in the warm South would probably be miserable in the frozen redoubt. Anyway some of us need to “occupy” the areas with the longest growing seasons instead of handing it over to the enemy. Especially since it looks like we are experiencing the opposite of “global Warming”. So it looks like I am going to be riding it out in a semi swampy area of the Great State of Mississippi.

              • Muddy says:

                Looking for a PRIMO REDOUBT RETREAT, a PRR?????????
                Well here you go, available for chump change. Plenty of fresh water.

                https://homes.yahoo.com/blogs/spaces/isolated-lodge-on-an-island-in-the-rockies-is-shadowed-by-tragedy-232818457.html

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                RE:When Bugging out to low lands like swamps, lakes and waterways. Are you a target for Mosquitoes – They Love Blood Type “O” the most. And like Type “A” the least. So consider this when bugging out if you will survive or get eaten alive.

                Study: A study in Nature (Wood and Dore, 1972) found that mosquitoes were more likely to bite people with type “O” blood than other potential victims, while people with type “A” got the fewest bites. A follow-up experiment examined whether this had anything to do with the fact that some people secrete saccharides — sugarlike chemicals related to blood type — through their skin. Results:

                1. Generally speaking, skeeters favor people with type O blood over those with types A and B blood, confirming the earlier research.
                2. They really favor type O secretors over type O nonsecretors and or type A secretors.
                Source: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2891/do-mosquitoes-prefer-certain-blood-types-plus

              • laeagle says:

                Passin, Mark,

                I completely agree with you. I have lived in many circumstances and in many places including the mountains, prairies, jungles, by the ocean, isolated rural areas and great metropolitan areas. When the time comes that we will have to live off the land, there cannot be a better place than southern Louisiana, MS, and Southeastern Texas, with the lakes, rivers, estuaries, and marshlands that are constantly being replenished with all kinds of edible foodsources (ducks, fish, crabs, shrimp, frogs, alligators, etc). Just need to know how to catch them.

                Of course we have some major population concentrations but after the initial die off we are going to have to figure out how to live with each other and form communities. Isolation is not a long-term solution and not very viable or plausible.

                Water will always be a concern for any BOL along with a long growing season. Rice, corn, taro, various vegetables, sugarcane, raising bees, cattle, pigs, chickens and other livestocks can supplement food caught in the lakes and rivers and forest lands. There are parts of this area in the ‘Great Southern Redoubt’ that are quite isolated and inaccessable and yet you are never too far from ‘civilization’.

                I love southern Louisiana!

                Louisiana Eagle

            • Vicky says:

              I think you’re lucky to live in Appalachia which is where we will go when things get really bad. We’re in rural Ohio, now, which is pretty decent, but have a lot of population within 3-4 days walking distance. I assume you have family and contacts there, which we don’t, and know that will make it harder for us. Good luck, wherever you go.

              • durango kidd says:

                Q: “Makes one wonder, where is one TRUELY safe????”
                A: “Those who seek to save their lives shall lose it.”

                The Lord has a place for everyone. Go within. Find that place where He wants you to be. Jesus did. His place was Golgotha.

                Be there to get there. If Yellowstone blows, NO ONE is going anywhere. Until then, engage!!! 🙂

              • durango kidd says:

                Here’s the smoking gun My Peeps:

                http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-13/individuals-pile-into-stocks-as-pros-say-bull-is-spent.html

                This is the last indicator I have been waiting for to confirm an “imminent” Crash; or new economic prosperity. All of the ducks are now lined up.

                Buckle up. 🙁

              • passinwiththewind says:

                Thanks and good luck, Vicky.

                I am a southern man, but made a lot of friends with folks from the Buckeye. Good friend lives in Dayton.

                You ain’t far from some “big” mtns. in WV. Hope you don’t end up close to the gooberment’s/TPTB, under mtn. city there.

                Remember the road that goes to nowhere in eastern WV? It does go somewhere and that somewhere is near their underground city for all the elites from the East Coast areas.

                PWTW

                PS. dk, you spoke much truth this time.

              • Muddy says:

                @DK,
                You comment that investors piling into stocks is the last indicator you’ve been looking for as an indicator for an imminent crash. While I don’t disagree with your thinking, I want to say that about a year ago ZH, and other sites were screaming to the high heavens about the “big boys”, industrial investors, etc. were getting out while the retail investor was getting in to stocks. The Big Boys were getting out because a downturn was right around the corner. They were insider traders. My point being the market is so screwed up that I question if traditional indicators still matter. Secondly people who got in a year ago have still made money, and the market is still pushing all time highs.

              • durango kidd says:

                Muddy: Yes its different this time. 🙂 Additionally, Goldman Sachs has publicly stated that the markets are 40% over sold, while also stating the S&P has much higher to go.

                WTF???

                That pronouncement lets GS off the hook, legally, when the Banks Crash the markets, while, in the meantime, encouraging more new money on the sidelines to join the slaughter. 🙁

                While I believe its still possible for the markets to self correct without a major Crash and continue to limp along until after the elections ….. eventually what goes up must come down.

                I know that this time its different, but typically the Dow makes a double top with the small investor pushing the second peak. That’s when the GB’s pull the rug out from under selling into the froth.

                Look for the double top now. It will tell you that the lemmings are fully invested. 🙁

          • the renegade braveheart says:

            Jasmine, I agree with you about the Boys from the Redoubt. As I stated in a post last night, the properties I’ve seen listed at SurvivalRealty.com, one of Rawles’ sites, are way too expensive for common people like you and me. Plus, I’ve travelled through that area once in 2000 and it was during the winter. Their winters are just too rough for me. I’ll stick with my beloved Southland.

            • Tacoma says:

              BH say you will stick with your beloved southland.I will also.You can grow food all year.

              • charlie2dogs says:

                do you really think you are going to just go out and plant food, how many people will you have around that field, armed watching your back while you work, do you actually think you will be safe with your head stuck out anywhere when the shtf, do you actually think you will be safe in your house, do you think no one will be watching you waiting for a chance to take your head off so they can rob, rape and kill to get what they want, most of you are living in lala land, you have about as much chance of survival as a snowball in hell.

            • durango kidd says:

              TRB: Boise has about 1000 abandoned homes. The longer they are vacant, the more money the bank loses. Make a LOWBALL offer that YOU can afford. Be ridiculous.

              Its a start. 🙂

            • Hey there BH…I getcha brother…I love the northern woods but when it comes to growing food you cant beat Dixies climate…that said I think folks can and will make it wherever they are if they make a plan and learn how to live it…too many folks are always looking elsewhere for that greener patch of grass and God knows trouble of somekind lives everywhere and waits to greet you on arrival,no matter where you go…not saying its wrong to relocate if you have the means and the want too…just think too many people are looking to some redoubt for a perfect bugout and are not prepared/preparing to make it where they are(and till they actually move somewhere else then they are still wherever they are)…like I say alot “do what you can with what you have where you are to the best of your ability”….been away for awhile fighting to raise the crops against some idiot who calls herself “mother nature”…finally got the hay cut and dried…got more to do but I got enough to make it now if I dont get any more…lost half my tater crop to flooding and standing water(and I live on top the hill 🙁 …corn is a total loss too except for the seed corn patch…all the maters/peppers/cabbages and such are fine inside the hoops…what a year!….anyhow I hope y’all are doing fine! REB

              • passinwiththewind says:

                I know what you mean, REB.

                Same situation here. We couldn’t get hay baled because of thunder showers every day. Lost about fifty bales when rain dropped out of the blue, just after wind-rowing.

                Had a another field with about 75 bales at neighbor’s and they got impatient and gave it to someone else, after we had been cutting it for six years. No phone call, just gave it away. Some neighbor, huh? But, what else would i expect from a self-proclaimed preacher, that lives off of Momma and in-laws.

                We will make enough maybe, as long as it continues to rain.

                Too much rain can kill a garden. Last year about 80% of the local gardens rotted down because they were on flat land. I learned many years ago that sidehill gardening works better against too much rain and heavy rains.

                Horse manure compost (no chemical fertilizer) working great. Bumper crop of green beans, squash, cukes, and tomatoes this year. Only had to water from the rain barrels once so far.

                Can’t grow corn because of the cussed coons. Have plenty of seed for a SHTF situation though. Will never plant another stalk as long as i can buy sweet corn @ .30 cents each ear, and stone ground corn meal for $12.00 per 25 lb.

                Life is good for now. Eating good in the neighborhood.

                PWTW

          • Gregory8 says:

            I use to live near there just outside of Spokane and it’s fantastic country. However, in the winter you can easily find yourself up to your arse, literally, in snow. If that’s not a problem for some folks then why not just make the next move and get up to Alaska where it’s really big and far away from everything and everyone? In the “Inland Empire” it’s 4-5 months of cold, to very cold weather, and at least 4+ months of snow, slush, and then mud to deal with. The plus side is that the insects aren’t nearly as bad as Alaska.

        • Old Guy says:

          B I You correct for the most part. Except you statement that we are living in the End Times. So far every generation of buble thumpers there are some who truly believed they where living in the end times. So far they have all been mistaken. No one really knows. Now we are at the beginnings of an end of an age.

          • Be informed says:

            @ Old Guy. Humans have warped themselves like no other time in history. You look at the everyday despair and the vicousness that is going on around the world. The threshold I truly believe has been reached that something massive MUST happen. The end times are really likely the end of human civilization as we know it. This just can’t continue like it is.

            Population for one cannot continue to grow without some sort of mass die off. The amount of arable land shows this all too well. You can’t grow food on more than 95% of the land of the planet. This really is just raw numbers. When the amount of people per square mile of arable land goes beyond 2000, mass starvation sets in. India has the 2nd most amount of arable land in the world, 1/2 of their land is farmable. They starve over there because of too many people, over that 2000 people per square mile of arable land ratio. The world is already at aboput 1400-1500 people per square mile of arable land. Super plagues always follow malnutrition and not enough food. The human species like all life forms have mega deadly germs, and the human species is way overdue for one. This would end human civilization.

            The Sun spews out super flares a lot more often than realized. An EMP like the Carrington Event would severely damage human civilization.

            War goes more likely everyday. Just on pure chance, war chances grow each year it doesn’t happen. If a world war happens every 100 years, then after 69 years, since the end of WW2, there is a 50% chance of WW3 this year. If world war happens every 50 years then the chance is 75% that WW3 will happen in 2014. Beyond the numbers, we just have to see just how Russia and China both are preparing for nuclear war with all sorts of massive underground facilities.

            You yourself have mentioned the polar shift and/or magnetic shift of the planet. This will certainly cause terrible climate shifts with it. The human agriculture is based heavily on gentle weather patterns. Even if the shift is not sudden and is slow, the planet’s weather will become a lot more severe and will affect crop production in a huge way. People are already living right on the brink of not having enough food.

            End times can be describe as the end of life as we know it. While I can’t yet prove this is going to happen, the scientific and geopolitical signs are sure pointing to times that will become awful in the not so distant future. This is why we, the 1%, prepare the best we can for what is coming that will be likely horrible and tiring.

            • Anonymous says:

              Many experts from many different fields– anthropologists, climate scientists, agriculturalists, biologists, etc. are predicting a converging of crises to hit us around 2030…some predict this to occur much earlier. All predict it to occur at least by 2030. they say if you are alive then, you won’t necessary consider yourself the lucky ones! Its gonna be bad!

            • charleston says:

              Well why don’t you go first and die off so the rest of us can use up your stuff?

            • BrewMaster says:

              There will be and currently are rapidly advancing hydroponic growing techniques being developed which allow fruits and vegetables to be grown much more efficiently than planting on arrible land. Hydroponics reauires 1/10 the water and can generate yields many times per square foot that which can be grown in dirt. Just as many people were convinced we were at “peak oil” a few years ago (Wrong)…technology finds a way to advance…and now we produce more fossil fuel than the Saudis do. I would not be surprised to see agriculture experience a similar path of advancement using hydroponics and aquaponics techniques.

          • Mark says:

            The bible says to be aware of the “season” concerning end times and Jesus returning. If you look at it from that standpoint the indicators of end time are upon us. Knowledge increasing many fold as never before, seasons merging into one another, volcanoes and earthquakes on the increase, wars and rumors of wars, ect., ect.
            No one can say for certian but it sure looks like the beginning of end times to me.

            • Nope says:

              Nope… things are just cycling like they do.

              the idiots are in charge… enjoy the collapse.

              It will be spectacular.

              I just might put out a big sign in the ghetto that says FREE FOOD AT NOON ON SATURDAY just to see who shows up. ha

          • Nathan Cline says:

            “So far every generation of buble thumpers there are some who truly believed they where living in the end times. So far they have all been mistaken. ”

            Did it ever occur to you that the “end times” does not last a week, or a month, or a year, or even 100 years? The world works on much larger timescales than that of any pitifully short human life.

            Yes, we ARE in the end times. The Jehovah’s Witnesses were among the first organized religious groups to realize this, back in the 1880s, one generation after the American Republic was destroyed by Lincoln and during the early stages of the American Empire. They recognized it for what it was all the way back then. Why do you think they stay so cloistered away from all the rest of this evil society and try so hard to spread the word of God, while continually trying to tell people that this wicked system is at its end, and that all these churches etc preaching nonsense are going to burn?

            • Old Guy says:

              Civilizations have waxed & waned since the beginning of time.
              apparently You folks definition of the End times is quite different than mine. I supposed you where predicting the biblical event and the return of Jesus ect. those where and are the bible thumpers I referred to. and so far they have all been wrong. When you die and your soul leaves your body of course that’s the end times for you in the literal sense. The end of an age I refer to is the same kind of event as the end of the ice age or the end of the stone age, of the end of the dinosaurs time. This end of an age will not make humans extinct some people will survive. The dinosaurs didn’t all die. The alligators, crocks, fish, turtles ,snakes ect are still with us. The pole shift & related change of climate will reshape the planets demographics and have a determining effect as to what flora & fauna remain. Im confident man being the most adaptable will not only remain but flourish. Its not beyond the realm of possibilities that your biblical jesus revelation type event is eminent however I wouldn’t count on it. Actually its a quite exciting time to be alive on the planet. certainly not boring. I Look at all the wonders that have happened just in my lifetime. My grandfathers corn field produced 20 BU to the acre. Mine makes over 200 BU per acre. Im 64. when I was young most folks my age where already dead. Back in the fifties most I knew actually lived without indoor plumbing no air cond. very few had more than one vehicle. hardly anyone bought a new car. everyone picked cotton by hand. many kids I knew had Polio. Folks didn’t have hardly any leisure time. They worked just to put some food on the table. Children had new clothes usually once a year. That was in the fall at the start of school.I actually like & enjoy my lifestyle as it is this very moment. I put in about 4 hours per day taking care of animals & stuff. Plenty of time to do things like play on this compueter. I retired and draw a social security PONZI scheme check. Come & go as I wish. I was really hoping that I could live out the remainder of my days playing Hobby farm ect. now Im not a denialist Im certain that’s very unlikely. I really hoped I would never have to kill again. Now that seems unlikely also. For the most part im disappointed and angry at those who think that I have more than my fair share & it needs to be redistributed to the free shit army.

              • Anonymous says:

                When the soul leaves the body it is not end times… its transition. Otherwise, not a bad post! 😉

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                The problem with Religion, is that it makes you think and believe you(MAN) are the “superior beings” on this planet, and everything else is a beast or burden. This explains the mass destruction of our planet as in Manifest destiny. The mass pollution of the water, air and land, and there is no other species on the plants that kills its own is such mass genocide as man does. But I am here to break the news for ya. You me and every living thing on this planet ends up in the same place, meting in the dirt pile as in dust to dust. If there was no such thing as Religion, we would all be living in harmony among the beauty of nature and stewards of the land air and sea. And take only what we need to live and leave the rest in better shape for others for future generations. Religion teaches Hate, Greed, Slavery, oppression, destruction all because your god you pray and obey is a jealous God. And even says so in your Bible. and this is why I abandoned Religion as it is evil. See:
                Exodus 34:14
                Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

                Deuteronomy 5:9
                You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

                Deuteronomy 6:15
                for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

                Deuteronomy 9:3
                But be assured today that the LORD your God is the one who goes across ahead of you like a devouring fire. He will destroy them; he will subdue them before you. And you will drive them out and annihilate them quickly, as the LORD has promised you.

                Like who wants to follow or donate your money to this BS?

              • Grafique says:

                I’m glad my God is a jealous God. His love is so great that he refuses to share me with idols and lusts.
                He proved it by sending Christ to take the punishment for which I WAS DESTINED. What a great love! What a perfect jealousy!

                THANK YOU LORD FOR YOUR JEALOUSY!

              • Nathan Cline says:

                ” I supposed you where predicting the biblical event and the return of Jesus ect. those where and are the bible thumpers I referred to. and so far they have all been wrong.”

                No they weren’t. That’s what I just tried to explain to you. Don’t worry, one day you’ll understand just how wrong YOU are.

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

              The Definition of FAITH is a set off beliefs absent of any Facts or Proof. Now’s that is a heck of belief system to gamble 10% of your weekly income on. You would be better off playing the LOTTERY. At last there are verifiable winners holding the BIG CHECK. I have yet to see a single winner who made it to Heaven or Hell, and hold up a sign saying I made it. If you know of any, let me know. I would rather spend my 10% of income on Preps like food, guns, ammo and shelter.

              “All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry” Edgar Allan Poe

              • Grafique says:

                The only problem with “religion” (Christianity) is your perception of it. The problem’s in your incomplete understanding.
                But that’s okay. Jesus loves you anyway.

              • Nathan Cline says:

                “The Definition of FAITH is a set off beliefs absent of any Facts or Proof. Now’s that is a heck of belief system to gamble 10% of your weekly income on.”

                No, the definition of faith is believing something without actually thinking about it or weighing and measuring the data yourself. And by that definition, science is a faith-based institution.

                Have you personally studied all the papers and research related to evolution? Or do you just believe in it because everyone else does and it “makes sense”?

                “All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry” Edgar Allan Poe

                Edgar Allan Poe might have been a good poet, but he was a crazy ass lunatic who didn’t know a thing about religion.

              • Anonymous says:

                No, actually, faith is the substance of things unseen, (or something like that). Basically, you have never had a spiritual experience, and therefore, you assume no one else has either. Its sort of like not having ever eaten a mango. If a person has never eaten one, he can assert (egotistically) that mangos don’t exist, since he’s never eaten or seen one. Egotism– thinking you are above all else, is the oposite of humility and all spiritual books around the world say that God cannot be seen/experienced unless you have humility. THAT’S why you don’t realize God exists– your egotism.

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                The Bible is the “Ultimate Excuse Book for Dummies,” who are too lazy to study Science, Physics, Anthropology, Archaeology, DNA, Evolution and History. Yep all crammed into one book written by humans, one of the dumbest and most ignorant creatures on the planet. Yep the world is still flat, and the moon is made of cheese. Look a cow just jumped over the moon.

              • Grafique says:

                WWTI, you can’t come up with any silly little insults that I (we) haven’t heard many times from posters on the internet who are fearless in their anonymity. You are in the great majority of people who reject Christ. Only a relative few accept him.

                I pray that Jesus will intervene in your life, when you are at your lowest. When you’re at the end of yourself, when the only way out is Death, remember that in spite of your hatred of him, Jesus never hated you. He has loved you for all time, and will accept you when you call on him, even if it’s at the very end.

                I love you and Jesus loves you. Remember that.

              • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

                WWTI, why do you come here and bash posters who have a vision different from yours, oh I forgot, you think your dung does not stink.

              • durango kidd says:

                WWHTI: No, that is not the definition of faith.

                “Faith is substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

                90% of the universe is invisible. That is scientific fact. Just because something is invisible, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

                Heaven is invisible. Jesus is invisible and at the right hand of the God the Father who is the Lord of Hosts. He is Nature’s God and the Creator of everything visible and invisible; and the embodiment of natural law, upon which the US Constitution is based: which can be condensed in a nutshell, to personal liberty and moral responsibility.

                Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Been there. Done that. 🙂

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                So did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?

            • Dixon says:

              Shaddup Rump Ranger!

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

              Religion is the Cruelest HOAX ever placed on man, duping the gullible generation after generation. If first starts out with setting the Con in place when you are about 2 years old when your parents tell you. “Be nice to your sister or else Santa Clause won’t bring you anything for Christmas.” “Then the Tooth fairy thinking you are going to get some money for shedding teeth”, Then Candy for Easter, but you have to work for it a little sine it is hidden in eggs, which Rabbits don’t lay. A child brainwashing is further enforced with cartoons and shows showing Santa Clause, and you can even go sit on his lap at the mall for proof. So by the time a child is about 5 or 6 he believes that if he is good and obeys, he is rewarded. And it is a total Con Job of Lies and deceit right from the beginning, creating a Gullible child. Then his parents sends him to Bible school for some more brain washing, teaching him that war is glorious with fun songs like “Onward Christian Soldiers Marching off to War” like it some noble feat to commit genocide, and symbolism is really important as you give them a cross they can wear around their necks as a badge of honor. Like the Nazi Swastika which Hitler found to be very powerful, and gives him sense of belonging or a symbol of protection, like the propaganda movies like if you hold up a cross the Vampire runs away in fear. Its all symbolism propaganda. Yes after years and years of brainwashing, it is a struggle for one to simply give up this belief system he has been conditioned for for decades, it is painful to admit you were gullible, or have the feeling of being deceived, like how did you feel when you found out that there was no Santa Clause. Well Jesus is never coming to save you or anybody else. Its all a myth. The cruelest part of this myth is that many brainwashed souls enter politics and leadership positions and create laws and wars around this myth. In my live I was raised Lutheran, went through the confirmation brainwashing. and I finally woke up right after 9-11 when in the middle of Bible study classes, I actually read the Bible, and soon realized it was all Bullshit, a scam. And there are more religions out there than just Christianity. And my mind opened up and and witnesses that Religion is so hell bent that it will make mind controlled brainwashed people do anything including flying airplanes into tall buildings. And strapping bombs on their bellies and self sacrifice so they can get 70 virgins in a make believe heaven. Even Christianity tells and promises you just like being good that Santa Clause will come. Christianity promises you ever lasting live is you believe and donate a portion of your income to keep the myth Ponsi scheme going. But then if you are given everlasting life, then why does the church then solicit you to donate all your estate to the church upon your death? Connect the dots folks. Its all BS, and when you die your body shrivels up and turns to dust. And all you will be from then on is a past memory for the remaining living. That’s All Folks Ba Beep Beep!!! Parents, STOP LYING to your children, be 100% honest to them right from the start. Its the only way we are going to save this planet from the Religious Genocide. Jews Bombing Muslims, Christians Bombing Muslims, Muslims bombing Jews and Christians. Stop involving the innocent in your insanity fighting who’s hoax is more legitimate or righteous than the others religious hoax. Who gives a shit where Abraham was born. And fight about it for thousands of years, there is No winner in this BIG HOAX. It would be like fighting about if Santa Clause lives on the North Pole or South Pole. Who cares? So what. It took a Man nearly beaten to his death to declare, “Can’t we just all get along?”

          • charlie2dogs says:

            mankind has degenerated to the place where he cant survive, religious fanatics, newagers and liberals are all deluded and have created one hell of a mess with their insanity, no one knows what time it is and does it even matter.

            • Old GUY says:

              How is man creating pollution? Everything on or about the planet is a natural thing. And since you cant make something into nothing or make something from nothing.. And for every action their is an opposite reaction. Its all a wash. The planet doesn’t care what humans and other life does or doesn’t do. And to top it off it don’t care what religious superstition you believe. Glowball warming is a myth superstition religionto some folks. The fact is these earth changing events would be happening even if man had never walked the planet.

              • Anonymous says:

                You ASSUME, Old Man, that global warming does not exist. However, have you ever bothered to research the topic, read a bunch of books from the library about it?Its easy to say something is a myth– like the nutjob above who says that God doesn’t exist. You may think what you like. The fact is, God is real and so is Global warming. (I’ve done the research!)

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                Old Guy- If Pollution is so natural, how about go out and start your car, then put your mouth and lips over the end of the tail pipe for 20 minutes, and see how natural it is for you. lol… See if your God will save you from it.

              • Grafique says:

                Many scientists have also done the research, and they say “global warming” is not real.

              • Grafique says:

                “Global warming” contradicts the Bible.

                Genesis 8:22 –
                “While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.”

                I believe that God put this verse in the Bible because he knew there would be those who claimed that the natural order of the climates – which HE ESTABLISHED – would break down.

              • durango kidd says:

                ANON: The world is not “warming”. Temperatures always vary over time. The temperatures are changing because the weather is changing. The weather is changing because the Poles are moving.

                It’s always coldest at the Poles and the rest of world gets the weather that is generated by the Poles, based upon the amount of solar radiation the earth receives (it varies with the strength of the magnetic field); the effect those radiation variations have upon the oceans (based upon the mass and gravity of various regions), and then the ocean currents which move the warmer and colder water around; affecting the atmosphere and thus the weather.

                Three million years ago, long before the advent of man upon the earth (at least in any numbers) Greenland was free of its ice pack and had been ice free for more than 50 million years before that.

                It could be argued I think that the natural state of Greenland is ice free. The Ice Age may still be ending. Earth Changes abound. They are the one constant upon this planet since its birth. 🙂

          • cabinfever says:

            It’s all about knowing how to read the signs…and a hundred years ago they didn’t know how to…or in the 80’s either. I have been watching since I was a teenager. The formation of the NAU (which is happening right now or they are attempting to form it) is a major sign. How long will it take? That’s anyone’s guess. It could be a bloody ten years…five years…who really knows. In my lifetime? Absolutely. Now I’m in my early 50’s.

        • Shooter says:

          Email the TX governor and tell him to bomb mexican railroad bridges with Texas Air Guard F-16’s. He should also bomb drug super labs and the homes of drug lords.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          When SHTF; In-laws or Outlaws – Be wary of both.

          • KnowThis says:

            Yes, They will be roasting marshmallows over the coals left from your burned up skull and smoldering skeleton, occasionally stirred with a fireplace poker. Your days are numbered Whowudda and they are coming for you.

      • PO'd Patriot says:

        No quarter here on earth. Like Hank Sr. use to sing, “We’ll Never Get Out Of This World Alive”.

        Think about how well they can read a license plate (detail) from a satellite floating in space. Don’t think we’re invisible. There are only places somewhat less safer than others. Complacency can get you killed quick.

      • Dejavous says:

        With Yellowstone waking up and all the earthquakes happening on the ring of fire – yeah the north east sounds like a good place to die in. Instant burial or incineration free of charge. Doesn’t anyone read the news lately. This is like relocating to the slopes of MT. St. Helens for safety.

      • Anonymous says:

        I think though, once we get through the bad times, it will actually be better in the long run… IF you can survive the transition! That is the ticker– trying to survive the transition!

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          Absolutely, As a Prepper, all you need to do is have all of your preps in place to sustain you and your family for one full year. After the first year of mass death where 95% of humanity is wiped out, there will be plenty of surplus homes, food, animals, and fresh air out there for the taking. And with only 5% of the living remaining, we will have about 5 to 20 square miles each, to do what ever want with by then. So just have at least a year of food, guns ammo and drinking water capabilities when SHTF. Stop trying to force prepping on others. If they don’t get it it was meant to be. I would not encourage anybody out there to Prep, let them be part of the 95% to parish. Just saying, this is an “End Game Strategy” just like in the TV show survivor. So if you believe Jesus is coming to save you. Bravo!!!! keep praying!!! Good Luck!! lol

          • Anonymous says:

            If you don’t believe that God exists, or have never had any spiritual experience, you will hard fit on surviving what’s coming, WHODUNNIT! This (what’s about to take place) is not just a material experience, it will test us to the bones and you have to be strong in every way to survive– especially spiritually strong. It will make all our knees bend!

          • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

            Have you not realized, wwti is a poser?
            Who knows it all?
            And his shit does not stink?

          • cabinfever says:

            This time we live in and the time of trial about to come upon the earth to test everyone will be worse than all the wars combined. The very gates of hell will be opened. There is no strategy for what’s coming. Any number of scenarios can happen that will ruin your drinking water, food, etc. In “Survivor”, the over-confident tend to bite the dust…Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. What is coming is beyond what you can comprehend – physically, mentally and spiritually.

        • charlie2dogs says:

          85% most likely wont survive, what qualifications do you have that you think you might be one of the few left.

      • Socrates says:

        Regardless of what people know or think they know…the virus is still the ultimate weapon.

        Deadliest, Rarest Form of Plague Contracted Near Denver

        A Colorado man is infected with the rarest and most fatal form of plague, an airborne version that can be spread through coughing and sneezing.

        It is the first case of pneumonic plague seen in the state since 2004, said Jennifer House, a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment. The man, who hasn’t been identified, may have been exposed in Adams County near Denver, health officials said in a statement. While House said the man has been hospitalized and treated, she wouldn’t release other details about his situation.

        “He’s on treatment long enough to not be transmissible,” House said in a telephone interview. He may have contracted the illness from his dog, she said, which died suddenly and has also been found to carry the disease.

        “We don’t think it’s out in our air,” House said. “We think it’s in our dead animal populations and dead rodent populations.”

        Plague in all of its forms infects only about seven people yearly in the U.S. The disease occurs when a bacterium named Yersinia pestis infects the body, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The difference between the pneumonic and bubonic varieties is that the bacteria take hold in the lungs in the first case, rather than underneath the skin through insect bites. Both types are treated with antibiotics.

        The state is working “to investigate the source of exposure and to identify those who may have been exposed through close contact with the individual,” the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment said in its statement. “Any individuals exposed will be recommended for antibiotic treatment.”
        60 Cases

        Colorado has had 60 cases of all types of plague since 1957, and nine people have died, the state said.

        “The reaction is leaning toward people who are tired of the protection of prairie dogs on some level,” said Jim Siedlecki, director of public information of Adams County. “Most people look at them as cute little dogs on the side of the road, but in rural Adams County they are looked at as a rodent who damages crops and is potentially plague-ridden.”

        The Deadliest Disease on Earth

        Adams County, home to 470,000 residents, with 425,000 living in the Denver metro area, is one of Colorado’s fastest-growing counties and among the 20 fastest-growing counties in the nation.

        Untreated plague is fatal, and antibiotics have to be given within 24 hours of the first symptoms to reduce the chance of death. Symptoms of the disease include fever, headache and chest pain, along with a pneumonia that develops rapidly causing shortness of breath, chest pain and bloody mucus, according to the CDC.
        No Vaccine

        There is no vaccine available for plague in the U.S. The bubonic form is the most common, best known for its outbreaks in the Middle Ages.

        Colorado officials recommend that residents keep pets away from wildlife, especially dead rodents. The plague can spread from animals after a large die-off of prairie dogs, when fleas with the bacteria seek new hosts, according to the state.

        “The message we’re trying to get out is that the plague bacteria is present here in Colorado, and to take necessary precautions to avoid getting infected,” House said.

    • eppe says:

      If one has a BOL already, will it rise in value when the SHTF? And could it double or triple in price? Then would it be worth selling to find another? Too many varibles in the equasion…. Oh, FOR A CRYSTAL BALL…

      • the renegade braveheart says:

        Eppe, I just hope I can bugout to north GA before anything happens. After an EMP or whatever, I’m not so sure there will be any ‘real estate value’. It will be a totally different world.

        • Grafique says:

          Just curious, RB, if everyhing went dark, would you still try to make it to N GA from Memphis, would you stay put, or try for somewhere closer?
          If you decided to strike out on foot, what items would you consider essential to take with you?
          Would you use some type of cart to carry more?
          Would you travel overland or by the roads?

          I ask because I frequently travel on business and this is a subject I think about a lot.
          Thanks.

          • Warchild Dammit! says:

            Graph,not RB but I do in car always have my hunting pack which keeps growing!I have ration bars/basic first aid/paracord/compass/a few knives/lighters galore along with ferrous rod,a roll of tp/water filter system which still needs testing,I know,am getting to it!I also have a basic self defense item.That said,if going to visit new lands have a map book and at least idea of area/water ect.You do a lot of airplane travel would go to trouble of checked bag/small pack to have more items if things go south.That said,some defensive items depnding on state ect. can be checked.I actually think a travel SHTF plan bag might make for a good article topic if anyone is game.

            • Anonymous says:

              What about binoculars, Warchild?

              • Warchild Dammit! says:

                Just shows the importance of coffee as PO mentioned,yep,have a small pair in hunting pack,sigh….,time to go though it yet again and see whats missing/can fit in small backpack,perhaps some instant coffee not a bad idea!

              • Grafique says:

                I carry a “Long Walk” BOB with me as my business trips are only by car/375 miles max.
                I figure 30 – 40 days to walk that far, camping along the way.

                Some items I don’t want to be without –
                My G21 and about 100 rds.
                Sleeping bag/self-inflating pad
                First Aid kit
                Toiletries kit (soap, toothbrush, small towel)
                A few extra clothes (socks, underwear, shirts). This increases as cold weather comes on
                Extra shoes
                Katadyne water filter

                Would you carry a tarp or small tent?
                Would you try to carry a .22 rifle for food?
                Would you travel by road or risk crossing private property?

                Any ideas on a month-long hike would be appreciated. Bear in mind that after an EMP everyone I meet would be afraid at least, hostile at most.

              • PO'd Patriot says:

                Grafique, absolutely have some sort of .22 if its going to be a thirty day walk home. Things could remain pretty fluid out on the road and you might have to divert around trouble which will extend your time. Sounds like you’ve got a good start with the G21.

          • Nopittypartyhere says:

            Definitely carry a pack in the car. I like the book “build the perfect bug out bag”. You tailor make what you need or choose to carry. When I travel to MS I have maps of every state I picked up at the rest stops. I will not travel by road, but use road as a guide, because the need may arise to cross water by bridge risky, I know, but each situation will need the odds weighed carefully.
            Also, if you are not an experoenced camper, ge Cody lunden’s 98.6 degrees the art of keeping your ass alive. HOPE this helps.

            • Grafique says:

              I have a Savage Mark II .22 rifle which is a sweet little gun, or for battle I have a BushMaster XM15 AR.
              My problem with another gun is obviously the weight of gun + ammo. My pack is already 35 lbs +.

              I have also included a CampMor poncho which is a heavy vinyl and has built-in space for a backpack. Right now I have a small tent (6 lbs) in there. I’m not sure it could be used as a tent.

              In a SHTF situation like this I fear bridges. They’re a perfect spot to bottleneck travelers such as myself, then rob/kill them. So I bought a swimming-pool float – the flat kind to lie on – for crossing rivers/large creeks. I figure I could strip naked, spread out my gear on the float and slip across at night.

          • Warchild Dammit says:

            Graph,in regards to tent ? how about a good poncho,can be used as a make do tent but also might be nice if it is pouring out.Your lower post shows you have a pretty good setup as you are car travelling.I suppose a breakdown .22 would be nice but if you can pull it off rather a battlefield style rifle with a good sling/scabbard on pack,oh,and some instant coffee!

            • Grafique says:

              I really appreciate these replies. I’ve spent much time thinking about this, but I really value new ideas/critiques. As much as I travel, it’s VERY likely that I’ll be caught away from home when it all goes dark. I’ve told my wife that if communications are out, not to panic, because I’M ON MY WAY, but 30 – 40 days is a long time to not panic.

              • Warchild Dammit! says:

                Graf,you are more set for a long hike then 90% of the country,much more and you grew up in a Grizzly Adams life style with a combat tour as a special ops thrown in.The important thing is you and I and others open to new thoughts/ideas which is what makes sites like these so helpful.The tent weighs 6 pds.,hmmm….,so does a good rifle(not including ammo).Anyhow,here is a site I also enjoy with a poncho/tent article: ht tp://willowhavenoutdoor.com/?s=poncho+tent,added space between http to avoid moderation wait time.Only you know the areas you travel ect. and whether the tent a worthy item,personal comfort even in small amounts may be a excellent thing to have if you are doing the “long haul”home,again,each situation/persons needs will be different.I just carry a small bag unless on road trip,then,tis the fully loaded Molle for me if over say 100 miles and or overnight/longer trip.

        • Anonymous says:

          One good thing about northern Georgia, its close to Cherokee, North Carolina and national forests… beautiful water falls out that way. But also, lots of snakes as well. My daughter lives in apartment complex in Georgia and constantly sees snakes– even poisonous ones.

      • talon1776 says:

        Just curious eppe…what kind of banking system will there be when an emp hits..and more to the point.,what kind of currency will be used to purchase such a BOL.?
        The actual truth is…nothing will have any appreciable worth simply because no economy will exist.

      • DarrenR says:

        “If one has a BOL already, will it rise in value when the SHTF?”

        a bug out location will go from a cool vacation cabin to being of incalculable value the day SHTF. valuable like a can of beans or gallon of water.

        “And could it double or triple in price? Then would it be worth selling to find another?”

        SHTF means any market that exists will be highly disrupted & punctuated with flying ordnance. i would not expect such to be the ideal time to flip a property on the market & move oneself to a different one.

        even in a ‘normal’ rising real estate market, the quandry exists: sell house A at $700k and move where exactly? into house B at $700k? that is the scenario one faces unless moving to a smaller/downgraded property or is moving to a notably less expensive location. and really, how is one going to do that while SHTF? perhaps X months/years after things settle down. and if society restores itself to a proper state, the BOL goes back to being a cool vacation cabin.

      • Nathan Cline says:

        “If one has a BOL already, will it rise in value when the SHTF? And could it double or triple in price? Then would it be worth selling to find another? ”

        That idea sounds to me a lot like “buying and selling stocks on the day of the crash” type thinking.

        Find a BOL, build it up, and keep it. Trying to wheel and deal at the last minute is a good recipe for getting burnt.

        • eppe says:

          To everyone who has questioned me about selling a BOL.
          I own (free and clear)a BOL on 28 acres that backs up to a National Forest of 4250k+ acres. It is shaped like an arrowhead. Locals did not even know what was there. I plan to split off 3 acres for my own and build multiple earthship or terradome homes for my family, sister’s family, parents, or whoever I choose as neighbors. That leaves me with 25 acres with 2 metal homes, well, barns, springs, wildlife everywhere, more timber than I could ever burn, and decent rural neighbors. Since I have been prepping since ’96, I am covered in all the essentials, and am looking for other ways to be making money when it all unravels.
          I have a few ‘wealthy friends’ who want to buy it now, but not make but 10-15% profit on it. Hence the question, if TSHTF, would some wealthy friend pay 100-500% more for the ’25’ than I paid for it to assure his clan would be safe??? I would not condsider it flipping, since I have owned it 7 years now, but thinking along the lines of surrounding my family with like minded people. I work fulltime, and have a business in the same realm on the side. My wife has a business recycling kids clothes in consignment setup. If we moved there, after selling my McMansion, getting set up would be a breeze. I have done better in real estate than others, and still play the stock market and commodities to a small degree. But since yall asked, now you see where the question came about. I wish the best for everone here in your mission to come out on the other side, intact, well fed, prosperous, and WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME that we seem to be in now. Like I have said before, I wish I HAD A CRYSTAL BALL, and could win lotto and get set up quicker…. Good luck everyone….
          I still wonder why some junk me for my jokes, I guess they see my ‘eppe’ and red me down, which I do not really care, more people green my jokes than hate them…

          • eppe says:

            Since we all are getting older, and we need to ween ourselfs off PHARMS, here is a ditty on that….
            Enjoy….

            SPECIAL POEM FOR…
            A row of bottles on my shelf
            Caused me to analyze myself.
            One yellow pill I have to pop
            Goes to my heart so it won’t stop.
            A little white one that I take
            Goes to my hands so they won’t shake.
            The blue ones that I use a lot
            Tell me I’m happy when I’m not.
            The purple pill goes to my brain
            And tells me that I have no pain.
            The capsules tell me not to wheeze
            Or cough or choke or even sneeze.
            The red ones, smallest of them all
            Go to my blood so I won’t fall.
            The orange ones, very big and bright
            Prevent my leg cramps in the night.
            Such an array of brilliant pills
            Helping to cure all kinds of ills.
            But what I’d really like to know………..
            Is what tells each one where to go!

            There’s always a lot to be thankful for if
            you take time to look for it. For example
            I am sitting here thinking how nice it is
            that wrinkles don’t hurt…

            • eppe says:

              Also an older guy told me once…

              You are not really drunk until….

              You shit in your pants and forget your name.

              Dang, that is really drunk…

              • the renegade braveheart says:

                Eppe, keep them coming. Very interesting poem. Fortunately, braveheart is NOT on any kind of FDA-approved poisons, so I must doing something right as far as my health is concerned.

              • eppe says:

                RB, you are on track, if it is not a natural herb, it will kill you in the end….
                Genesis 1:29

                And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.

              • I witnessed two french canadians do exactly that, they dank a 40 oz of everclear in about an hour. those two guys were toast.

              • eppe says:

                I actually know the great? grandson of Nash, interesting dude no less…
                He has a company that makes these…

                Google polarbearcoolers…
                Moderation would take hours…

            • Grafique says:

              Hey Eppe, I did a study on Humor in Poetry a while back.
              Here are a few of the best –

              Tax his land, tax his wage,
              Tax his bed in which he lays.
              Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
              Teach him taxes is the rule

              Tax his cow, tax his goat,
              Tax his pants, tax his coat.
              Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
              Tax his work, tax his dirt

              Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
              Teach him taxes are no joke.
              Tax his car, tax his grass,
              Tax the roads he must pass

              Tax his food, tax his drink,
              Tax him if he tries to think.
              Tax his sodas, tax his beers,
              If he cries, tax his tears

              Tax his bills, tax his gas,
              Tax his notes, tax his cash.
              Tax him good and let him know
              That after taxes, he has no dough

              If he hollers, tax him more,
              Tax him until he’s good and sore.
              Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
              Tax the sod in which he lays

              Put these words upon his tomb,
              “Taxes drove me to my doom!”
              And when he’s gone, we won’t relax,
              We’ll still be after the inheritance tax

              -Anonymous

              • Grafique says:

                The bustard’s an exquisite fowl
                With minimal reason to growl
                He escapes what would be
                Illegitimacy
                By grace of a singular vowel
                – George Vaill

              • Grafique says:

                He drinks because she scolds, he thinks
                She thinks she scolds because he drinks
                And neither will admit what’s true
                that he’s a sot and she’s a shrew
                -Ogden Nash

              • eppe says:

                EXCELLENT POEM….

              • Grafique says:

                A Warning on Spontaneous Combustion

                O whisky is the king of drinks,
                Renowned the world o’er,
                But here’s a word o’ caution,
                Tae think of when ye pour.
                There’s a certain combination,
                That tastes so very good,
                But when it hits your tummy,
                And mixes with your food.
                That’s when the trouble starts,
                For yer pleasure hits overload,
                And half an hour later,
                Ye’ll suddenly explode.
                So there ye are in the pub,
                Completely engulfed in flames,
                And yer good wife’s dashing home,
                Tae lodge insurance claims.
                Well now that I have told ye,
                Don’t say ye’ve no’ been warned,
                So don’t try it oot yersel’,
                Or ye’ll soon be bein’ mourned.

                – Stuart McLean

              • eppe says:

                I actually know the great? grandson of Nash, interesting dude no less…
                He has a company that makes these…

                http://www.polarbearcoolers.com/

                You know what to do….

              • the renegade braveheart says:

                Grafique, very interesting poems. You’re a poet and I didn’t know it.

          • eppe says:

            As a rule, I don’t pass along these “add your name” lists that appear in emails, BUT this one is important. It has been circulating for months and has been sent to over 25 million people . We don’t want to lose any names on the list so just hit forward and send it on.

            Please keep it going!

            To show your support for President Obama please go to the end of the list and add your name.

            1. Michelle Obama.

            2.

            • eppe says:

              STAND-UP COMEDIANS, MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP, HAVE THEIR FINGERS IN THE WIND ACCURATELY DETECTING WHICH WAY IT IS BLOWING..

              You know the honeymoon is over when the comedians start.

              The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . ..
              and think 25 to life would be appropriate. –Jay Leno

              America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween
              mask. -Jay Leno

              Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?
              A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for
              it. -Conan O’Brien

              Q:What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
              A: A fund raiser. -Jay Leno

              Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
              A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society.
              The other is for housing prisoners. –David Letterman

              Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink, who would be saved?
              A: America ! -Jimmy Fallon

              Q: What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
              A: Bo has papers. –Jimmy Kimmel

              Q: What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
              A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road. -David Letterman

          • lastmanstanding says:

            Why aren’t you set up there now?

            Too busy telling jokes and living in a paradigm that you can’t free your mind from because you make to much money.

            • eppe says:

              3 more mortgage payments, and my McMansion is paid for. Then I will be free to do what I want, but the real question, where are you in the game of life??? Money is just a situation you put yourself into, I have made enough to set myself free, where are you? And why do you even question me on where I am? I tell jokes to free myself from the bullshit yall put yourselves in, so you can have a laugh and see the situation you are in, and why are you worried with my life??? I am already set up, but you think you can question my life??? I will be setting pretty, when most of you are struggling just to keep your head above water??? It is people like you that have set yourselves in your own situation. Money is a thing that I do not worry about much such as you, if so you would not have commented… But I want to say, you are what makes you what you are, and yes I will get redded down, but the truth still stands, jokes are part of my life, and if it makes those posting have a smile in anyone’s life, I feel it has done good, because a smile in life is worth much good. Why do you care anyway??? Not wanting to be an asshole like others, but why did you even comment????? It takes time to get where you want to be, and I have placed myself in a situation that within 2 years time I am set up for 40 years… Where are you in the place you want to be??? Do you even know??? Or are you just floating around figuring out what you need to be in??? Why did you even comment on this??? I will be in my BOL by the first of the year 2015, and where are you, estimating out what is up or down? I do not have to explain my actions, only trying to wonder why people like you have not gotten ther shit together to get a life???? My jokes make many people smile, what do you do to make others smile??? You are the type of people who downgrade others to feel big, but I do not care, my pants are put on the same as yours, just mine are better fitted. By the way, what makes your shit not smell, I know mine does, every morning that I take a dump…..

              • Old GUY says:

                Eppe I agree with you. Cracking jokes is something my wife and I enjoy doing. Too many folks take little things too seriously. So we joke about it. We becoming aged so We like to make jokes about when you lose body functions. Like You know your getting old when you can no longer trust a fart. of if im in the presence of lawyers I make lawyer jokes. Ect. And hurray for you for becoming debt free. I have been debt free and Beholden to no other man for many years. Dave Ramsey has a raido program that touts the debt free concept.keep posting thejokes.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      The Yellowstone Blows and they are all TOAST!!…No Thanks!

      • Nathan Cline says:

        Exactly. Did anyone see the news articles about the damn road melting at Yellowstone, just a few days ago? This is after we’ve been seeing increased earthquakes, the ground swelling faster than normal, etc. Something is going on there. This is one of several reasons I chose NOT to move to Montana and decided to return to the South. I believe Appalachia will be one of the safest places to be post-SHTF.

        • Calgagus says:

          Looks like were not alone.We are Appalachians, by location and heritage. Were all German/Scots-Irish. We are around family, family long gone and old neighbors where some would say theyre friends. Blood is thick in our clan and we stick together. We are where we need to be for many reasons and heres where we stay.

          The west is a vast open area but the culture is different than ours. Water and mineral rights are vastly different too. There are large missle defense installations out west. And areas that have SHTF problems like the Yellowstone caldera, other Pacific NW volcano activity, earthquakes, drought. Too many negatives for us just to have a low population density.

          I see why many are lured into the redoubt but theres been a migration there and it aint all cowboy land now w/ libs and yuppies. We dont want to be around either much less have to live by the rules they say. In my book theres too much doubt to relocate to the redoubt. So itll be a vacation destination if our retirement ever allows that. Right now for us, a vacation would be too dangerous due to distrust w/ govt and current events. Hope we get in a few nice trips out west but not counting on anymore w/ all thats been happening. Love to visit out there again and weve been to all the states but HI and AK.
          But were staying put and our small farm is our BOL. We know how to garden here. We know the seasons and the soil. We know the waterways and how to get lost in the forest. We have some bush skills and can camp primitive.
          So its our place or no place. What weve been building is a BIL and thats where we invest our time, energy, money.

          • Nathan Cline says:

            I’d thought about moving to Colorado since they legalized pot there (I’m in the industry and it would be nice to practice my craft without persecution), but after thinking about the number of valuable military installations around there (i.e. targets), and the vast underground complex aka headquarters of Satan himself being right there under the Denver airport, I decided it would be better to stay as far away from that place as possible.

            • eppe says:

              What do you think of investing ‘speculative’ monies in pot stocks? Like EERB,HEMP,MJNA, etc????
              Any suggestions????

              • eppe says:

                ERBB, FAT FINGERS….

              • talon1776 says:

                I am invested in ERBB.. If it weren’t for market manipulators…it would be trading over a dollar…I am long in the stock…but I believe the market will implode before I see it come to its full price per share potential…but I do like American Green…it represent Freedom and Liberty in the pursuit of happiness..

                Live Free or Die
                Talon1776

              • eppe says:

                Talon, we are in the same crowd, I think in TIME, these stocks will explode, that meaning I am betting they will go up 10000% in time, just wish Jawja would come on line quicker, I have some friends who want to go this direction, which I see will happen soon, they are trying to figure out where to go in the future. We know it will happen, all 50 states will be in the game, so I have placed myself to be there, since it is happening now, soon to be in all 50 states. MAY WE ALL PROFIT FROM THINKING AHEAD…
                IT IS A NATURAL PLANT WHICH GOD SAID WE SHOULD USE…

              • eppe says:

                Talon, are you playing any others?

              • talon1776 says:

                eppe…it’s hard to gauge the movement of any of these MJ holdings. I notice that they fluctuate in a very narrow range and are most likely market manipulated by short sellers(day traders). I do not have any other holdings…but I do my DD from this site
                http://marijuanastocks.com/content/list-marijuana-stocks
                Without a clear position on banking from the Feds…MJ stocks will stay in this range of a few penny moves in either direction…with a few exceptions.,one being CBDS…which rose steadily this pass week…although pricey at $9.75 pps. ERBB has a agreement with GW Pharma which is a large Canadian Pharmaceutical company to market and distribute their products through the Zazzz vending machine. It remains to be seen on many fronts if American Green can deliver on numerous agreements with other MJ partnerships it has formed and some acquisitions it has made as of late. One stock to watch IMHO is LATF…still a sub penny…but continues to have good revenues. I hope you and I as well as others who take risk profit hugely…the question is..do we have the time?

              • Nathan Cline says:

                Waste of time and money, because these companies aren’t going to do shit to innovate anything in the herb industry. The true innovators aren’t out there doing their damnedest to be the first publicly traded stocks, they are in their gardens and “labs” coming up with new innovations that will revolutionize everything. The pot industry is in its early, primitive stages, and most of the “big” players today will be forgotten nobodies tomorrow.

    • OutWest says:

      With all due respect to the authors of these
      bug out locations, they are geared toward the
      yuppies from the cities.
      The prices of the houses they advertise and
      their access to the amenities of the modern
      world are not to be confused with roughing it.

      Going off the grid is not a game. If they are
      going to give it a try they will find out that
      their one lone job skill that sustained them
      in the city will be wholly inadequate to keep
      them going in an isolated environment. I don’t
      mean to be a wet blanket, but nature does not
      suffer either the weak or the foolish.

      • Right you are Outwest, Sandpoint and Coeurdalene are so kalifornikated it is pathetic. I was building the bridge in Dover a few years ago and watched the traffic for 4 months while there and it is a bunch of long grey hairs driving BMWs. The same people that fvked up their state fleeing into and fvking up another.

        • Unreconstructed Southron says:

          And telling you it’s for your own good while they do it.

          • clinthospo says:

            This is not a response just my case, move anywhere where there is no gangs or many cultures. Being white Id move to the midwest where the towns are smaller and your away from mass highways and traffic etc but still have water and food resources. Many will live in south to grow food year round, but Im in the midwest under Minnesota. We have low crime and good people. Cedar Rapids Iowa is not bad. Clean air and water. Only one Nuke plant thats north out of the way and one of the cleanest in the USA. We have freezing cold temps in the winter but most people will try and help each other. The smaller gangs will end up dead in our town without a doubt. Thats good times. We don’t need trouble in our lives and let them eliminate themselves so we don’t have to waste and lead. I really think at night when I read this about all of you. Some are single females older in age but live in small towns as well and I believe people will try and help each other without trying to restrict peoples motives. Many will be very nervous with people carrying guns around but guess what this is America and you have to take a chance. I can see the feminists in groups trying to help getting very very nervous or even acting out with anger with people having weapons in a collapse. These people are die hard liberals and not the nasty ones. But they still might get a bullet to the head. Just kidding.

            • The Old Coach says:

              I’m with you clinthospo – Iowa, even though it has far too many liberals already, is good bug-out country. Lived and worked in Minneapolis about year 2000, and studied it pretty carefully. For Long Term Collapse, don’t be too far from the main rivers, because they will become the only trade and communications routes. Think the 1700s and 1800s. Living completely away from all human trade and communication is possible, but it ain’t much of a life. Also liked the Coulee Country of western Wisconsin. The Dakotas are interesting, but the Red River flows to Hudson’s Bay. Me, Ian canoe to the Ohio, and that’s all I’ll say here.

        • Calgagus says:

          The area in Coeur has polluted waterways, from mining. Dont know about the rest of you but Id rather have metals in a shiny stack not in my body killing me.

      • the renegade braveheart says:

        OutWest, I’ve looked at some of those properties on SurvivalRealty.com, one of Rawles’ sites. Nice properties, but priced way the hell out of my league. As I said in my earlier post, I had a bad experience in Coeur D’Alene when I travelled through there back in 2000. I didn’t feel welcome there at the time and wouldn’t feel welcome there now. I’ll stick with the South, thank you.

      • Nathan Cline says:

        Well said OutWest. On a similar note, I just got involved in an argument with some young naive fools on one of the Anarcho-Capitalist groups on Facebook. The topic was, “your thoughts on expatriation.” In this thread many people shared their fantasies of moving to Chile, Thailand, or other exotic foreign locales. It’s like they fully expected the grass is greener on the other side and they are one plane ticket away from living happily ever after.

        I asked them, do you REALLY want to be an American foreigner who just showed up in a foreign country to crowd these people off their women and land, during World War 3, when trade is shut off, resources are limited, and people are starving? Not only would you be in danger from jealous local men, but in the highly likely event that a power like China or Russia were to invade that country, you will have a big target on your back to be imprisoned or executed.

        You should have seen the whining from these ignorant assholes who called me every name in the book then banned me for daring to shit on their fairy tale dreams.

        The sad fact is, most people just don’t want to hear the truth. They will become fixated on some idea like north Idaho or Montana or whatever, and no logical argument you can possibly make will help them to see the flaws in their plan.

        Personally I WOULD NOT want to be northern anywhere during a nuclear winter, or after a Yellowstone eruption. But that’s just me; I tend to think and consider all factors before jumping to conclusions.

        Lots of wake up calls are coming to a lot of people.

    • wrong says:

      Your safe where you make yourself safe. This is bullshit! You don’t need to move to some other state to be safe. The American Redoubt? Bunch of crap….. I’m tired of hearing about the “safest” state. There aren’t any. Who the hell has the money to move to some other location to be in a better, safer state? That’s like telling yourself if you have a bigger gun you’ll be safer. Learn how to survive where you live.

      • Anonymous says:

        Not true. Try living in a state like Illinois.

        • The Old Coach says:

          Well, I’d consider parts of Sillynoise to be pretty good, assuming Rule of Law has broken down so the Chicago thugs no longer hold sway. Say, down in the Little Egypt area?

          • The Old Coach says:

            Lots of places there where those MRAPS can’t go, too. Too many bridges that can’t take 60,000 lbs, and off-road they’ll get mired in before they’ve gone 100 yards.

            Makes me think about bayou country. No shortage of water or food, and damned hard for outsiders to access. Of course, if you try to move there now, you better already have family in the area.

      • slingshot says:

        Where I am at there are Plenty of Bugs that bite the shit out of you. Then the bite itches and burns. You swell up like a watermelon. If you not careful you can catch all sorts of germs that can kill you. Yellow flies and spiders, gnats and mosquitos as big as a quarter.

        I kid you not! It can get real hot and muggy.

        Not many will stick around when the air condition goes out.

        Come on down you Closet Yankee’s. You will be wishing for snow before its all over.

        • The Old Coach says:

          Alexander the Great tried to invade India, but his army died of disease. There’s a lesson in there somewhere.

        • The Old Coach says:

          And snakes. Don’t forget snakes.

        • Night Breaker says:

          Sling shot ,
          Sounds a lot like southern New Jersey , the misquito is the state bird!
          Salt water marsh misquito’s will drive every one away they are VERY aggressive and bite in the day time. We also have courtesy of our southeast Asian adventure the Asian Tiger Misquito than came here in the early 1970’s from McGuire Airbase in a load of tires from Vietnam they liked the climate and reproduced rapidly. Any Vets from that era will tell you how much a PIA they are , bite right thru BDU’s . Best place where I live , Dense Cedar Swamps wet nasty , bug infested , snakes , just inland from the salt water marshes. It’s like a northern bayou.
          Get yourself a Clark Jungle hammock and your good to go in the summer for bug out .

          RESIST

          Semper Fi 8541

          • slingshot says:

            Night Breaker.

            On the subject of bugs. I was introduced to hog hunting about 30 years ago. Being on private land we hunted them all year round because of the destruction they can do. You could catch them on a road sometimes but mostly had to go into the wetlands to get them.
            Being a Tenderfoot at the time I quickly became familiar with ticks, chiggers, spiders, scorpions and mosquitos. Those Asian Tigers are bad but there is a new boy in town which about the size of a quarter. There is also another Recluse Spider that is more poisonous than the one we have now.
            Step on one of those fire Ant hills or pick up a log with carpenter ants in it and see what happens. How many would know what a saddleback caterpillar is?
            I do poke fun at people about all the bugs. I do not know how many times I have looked down at an insect and said, What the hell is that?
            Look up Cow Killer/ Velvet Ant. It is not an ant but a ground Wasp.

            • Anonymous says:

              Unfortunately, bugs and diseases are going to get worse as the climate heats up. Humans do not fare well in hot climates; unfortuantely, insects proliferate during hotter weather!

            • eppe says:

              Sling, in the 60’s, we had those velvet ants. I once took a stick and pinned one down to the ground. It made some very nasty loud grunts until I let it loose. Pissy insects, and I heard if they bite, very painful…. I have even seen a female one with wings, scary looking critters…
              Try it sometime, see what I mean….

            • BBStacker says:

              Got Rocky Mountain spotted fever last year from a tick bite. Lost 30 pounds in 3 weeks and couldn’t walk. Still have some lingering joint pain. Definitely wouldn’t want to go through that during a shtf event.

              • eppe says:

                BB, Take all the natural herbs that detoxify and clean up your blood, sasafrass, enchichina?, etc. look it up, I went thru this with a bad kidney, and you need to research as much as possible on natural herbs to clean up your body…
                It will improve the crap you are going thru…
                Hope you get better, it is a rough gig to go thru without doctors, but they are full of shit….

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            @Nt Breaker- Yea I picked up the Clark Jungle Hammock, Camo 4 season with the noseum netting. Awesome Hammock About $400 and Lt weight. Living here in FL, there is something crawling everywhere. And I would not want to be sleeping on the ground, where it is all crawling. Hang it as high as you can and still crawl in at night. I also have a smaller day net hammock to hang just below and under my Jungle hammock, to set my bug out bag or rifle on to also keep it off the ground in case it rains or critters. And hang my separate food pack suspended 20ft in the air, with a rope off a tree 20 -30 yards away when sleeping at night. Rock on!! See ya in the end zone!!

            • Night Breaker says:

              WWT,
              Sounds like you got the same model as mine NX250 , got enought room to toss my pack in the foot with me . Around here our most worry is rabid skunks and Ticks. You guys down in FLA have to contend with Coral Snakes and cotton mouths , nasty stuff. The hammock can be used for 4 seasons , I prefer in winter when nothing is out and about to use my Kifaru Paratarp with annex and Kifaru Parastove I have used it down to 15 D. F with a MSS system and have remained toasty , total weight 5.5 lbs once you use a heated shelter in winter you will never go back. It never gets that cold where you are so you are good to go. You can set up anywhere there is support and can be put up and taken down rapidly , I use a carabiner and two rappelling rings for the suspension and with python straps by kammock as tree wraps . You can fasten a funnel to the tarp corners to drain into platapus bottles to get rain water for filtering, henessey makes. a kit that can be modified to work with the clark the weight also helps to keep the tarp taunt.

              I agree with hanging the food with 550 cord in a dry bag , do not want to become a bear taco.
              Still have a henessey Explorer deluxe but prefer the Clark it’s more versital.
              I always keep my weapon on me on safe in hostile territory and I keep the PVS-14 in the inside hammock pocket with a red photon mini light suspended on 550 card above. Hanging is definately the way to go in the warmer months. I have even weathered a severe thunderstorm in the Clark with a tarp canopy and remained dry. Quality gear and worth the price.

              Slingshot ,
              I think I saw one of those mosquito you are talking about and I learned at an early age not to pick up those Velvet ants ! Thank God we do not have to deal with fire ants this far north , seen a guy when I was in the service during rifle qualification ( we got sent to work with Rangers with big green at Fort Stewart GA ) go prone on one of those rocks he didn’t stay down long ! He Ended up spending the night in the infirmary , learned a lesson by observing others then LOL!

              Semper Fi 8541

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                @Nt Breaker – Sounds like you have a well thought out plan, and gear set up.. Yes, in the wild in Florida you need a hammock, and hang it higher than an alligator can jump. I also do a lot of back water kayaking in the back bays and mangrove swamps and mangrove tunnels through and under the canopy. You can walk on the mangrove roots, pull the kayak up into tie if off for the tidal flows, and hang a hammock in the mangroves. With a little camo cover, one could hide back in there for years. Lots of food supply with snaring raccoons, birds, collecting oysters, trapping blue crabs, fishing for snook, spotted sea-trout, hang those Yo-Yo fishing reels on branches over hanging the water with fiddler crabs that climb all over the mangrove roots. I have no doubt I could survive back in there for years. The negative, is Noseums come night time will eat you alive though, so a slightly smokey fire may keep them away. For good survival in a Bug Out you want to go where nobody else will dare, like the back rivers where the Gators sit on the banks watching you go by. Find some high ground and hangout. I have been scouting out some great places in my area in the back bays and remote navigable river country. The last thing you want to do is cling to the masses of refugees wandering around on the highways with no destination. That will be a death sentence. Within walking distance from my house, I can tow my kayak with wheels on the bottom to the salty brine water of the Gulf of Mexico in 3 minutes. I could take off at nighttime, with my BOB and gear, and be off to some remote island or mangrove spoil island in a few hours. Also pick up those camo pattern mylar thermal covers that will block out heat sensitive IR Thermal imaging and attach that to the roof of your hammock. They are sold with camo print on them. (Amazon) I have seen IR Thermal Resistant Tents for about $800, but then for some reason they disappeared from the internet. Probably Military spec. As the LEO choppers want to own the night, with spotting refugees trying to hide in the woods. Camo is not enough, as People need to understand their heat signature footprint. Yes, I need Night vision and or IR Thermal imaging, its on my wish list. Right now I will have to stick with my 1st Gen Night vision. My flashlight. lol Full Moon last night, it looked almost like daytime out there.

              • Anonymous says:

                Speaking of ants… my brother used to step on ants when we were younger. I used to think he was mean. When I was grown, I got bitten a lot by ants at this one house I lived at. Now I step on them too! 😉

              • slingshot says:

                When I was young I took my dad’s claw hammer and started smashing ants on the side walk. Killed the ants and put chips marks all over the walkway.

                Guess you know what happened,

          • PO'd Patriot says:

            NB, been through the southern marshes portion of NJ. Took that route home a couple of years ago after staying a couple of days in Cape May. Reminded me of where I live. The mosquitos here are referred to as “air sharks” cause of their size. I once watched as two of them gang raped a turkey while I was hunting one spring day. Glad I had camo on and they didn’t see me.

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

              Even here in Florida, the key is to get to high ground and away from the moisture of water, which will greatly reduce your exposure to mosquitoes and noseums. Noseums are small and can get through regular screen and bite like a muther. I did learn a good trick when camping in the FL Keys, by the water. Noseums are attracted to light. I would use and turn on my battery Coleman lantern in the tent, wait 5 mins, till the noseums covered the lantern light, and then slowly carry the lantern outside the tent, then turn off the lantern, as I just escorted many noseums out of my tent. Then go back in the tent and repeat. Want to practice your bug out plan? Just go camping, make the mistakes during practice, so when the real SHTF, you are already dialed in, and can focus on what is necessary.

      • N2theRepublic says:

        I must partially disagree. Certainly, you are only as safe as you make yourself, wherever you are. However, some locations are inherently less directly affected by happenings. I would MUCH rather be in a more sparsely populated area that has many natural resources available, than be in a heavily populated area lacking in these resources when something major occurs. The chances of me having to forcefully defend myself and family, or having to deal with refugees from an event, drops in direct proportion to the distance from the more heavily populated areas.

      • CraigW says:

        Who the hell has the money to move to another state? Well, the people who have the money to move to another state, I guess. I’m always amused by people who think everyone is a poor as they are.

      • hammerhead says:

        Im with ya on that @ Wrong ,
        What happens when al “survival” minded patriot types move into the same area ?
        LOL , A dream come true for the fed gov !
        Containment of these so called “insurgents” will be easy.
        I wonder how much people consider that the biggest threat to thier well being isnt from Russia or China , the biggest threat is the US government .
        The threats to safety and liberty that we face in the US are from WITHIN .
        Look no further than the importation of disease infested south americans , But i guess they cant get a bus ticket to idaho .

        • Old Guy says:

          All the Jews congregated in a gated community called a judefed. they thought that would protect them from others. that made it very easy to find them and round them up.

        • sixpack says:

          Oh, you mean Northern Idaho doesn’t have any big low income housing complexes for busloads of illegals?

          I’d love to get out of Oregon.

          • Dejavous says:

            With all the earthquakes firing up and the Yellowstone going hot – everything west of mid-Texas is either going to be covered in ash or bone dry from drought. My pick for the safest location would be east of the New Madrid fault by a few hundred miles and south of the Mason Dixon line. If you do not know anyone living in that area already – make friends with someone who does and form a plan to get there and help with planting and opsec on a long term basis – over a year or two. Also check out where the nuclear plants are located for they will probably go hot from unattendence and lack of backup fuel in the chaos causing melt downs. There are 124 nuclear power plants across the U.S. that can melt down. THINK!!! Seriously consider all these variables and the future of what will happen when and after the balloon goes up.

      • Da Yooper says:

        Articles about safe places make me laugh

      • wrong says:

        I see part of the problem with people in general is that they always think the grass is greener over the fence. It’s just not true. The mentally that “If I just had that new car, everything would be better” or If I just had that new ??? I would be safer or happier” is wrong and is one of the major problems that Americans have. And one of the reasons we’re in such a screwed up mess. DESIRE WHAT YOU HAVE! Survival, happiness and life in general are what you make of it. Attitude. The Lord puts us in a place for a reason. Don’t try and think you know better than He does. Look around you and think about how blessed we really are. Make the best of what you are and have now.

      • Mark says:

        Wrong, u r Right! :-))

    • TPSnodgrass says:

      I am firmly in the camp that NO PLACE, on Earth at present, is truly safe. We can make our areas safer, but life has no guarantees at all. Not trying to be cynical or on a rant, we make or break where we are. Hang in there.

    • Tacoma says:

      Eppe there will be no safe place.This guy is trying to sell real estate

      • The Old Coach says:

        Yupper. Mac has taken the bait, and published a marketing piece as editorial material.

        OTOH it gives us all a chance to chime in with more rational content.

        • Warchild Dammit! says:

          Coach,seems they are a advertiser as they are on top of page with other advertisers.Nothing wrong with Mac making a living and as you said article has brought forth a lot of ideas for better/worse areas in folks opinion and other things like pumps/travel bags ect.

          • The Old Coach says:

            I give Mac full credit for letting us post as much criticism as we have. I have been “red-carded” on another site for pointing out in the mildest of terms that a certain advertiser’s product is inferior to one made by a non-advertiser, which my professional credentials made me more than qualified to do. Needless to say that site is not getting my eyeballs anymore.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          When the Guy that writes the Article also has the same last name as the Survey Rater who gives it a 5-star rating. No conflict of interest there eh? lol Then provides a direct link to Sales rep who happens to sell the 5 star property. Ever go to one of those vacation time share seminars just for the free TV? lol I enjoyed a million dollar condo in Key West one time for a weekend just for the cost of the hotel taxes, but had to listen to a 1 hour speech by a sales lady. Then I said, “No thanks.” Then went drinking on Duval St. lol

          • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

            Maybe you should have stayed on Duval St?
            Once we have ‘global warming’ you will be underwater.
            Surely an improvement on your part.

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

              Hey WWsuckit. Yes I have been around and am quite adventurous, and never shy away from a challenge to better myself or learning. I hope my tips that I have experienced can help you when SHTF. This is what this blog is about. Your profile name explains you quite well as you offer nothing but babble.

    • Everyone is out to make a dollar on this relocation thing even to the bitter end….
      Money is truly the Root of All Evil.

      • PO'd Patriot says:

        Its “The LOVE of money” being the root of all evil. Money in itself is not evil. You can’t serve God and Mammon, you’ll love one and hate the other. And that pretty much pertains to anything you put before God. Thumb strum away…………

    • Anonymous says:

      What if you are an older woman (not old!) but recently became eligible for early social security benefits, had been self employed, and no loved ones close by. Does it mean your goose is cooked? (no savings).

      • sixpack says:

        No, it means you have to improvise, adapt and overcome.

        It means you have to get creative in getting what you need/want.

        You only lose when you give up trying.

      • Archivist says:

        You can keep on being self-employed. I think they allow up to about $14,000 per year without cutting benefits. Of course, what they don’t know won’t hurt them.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        RE Question: Should you Start Collecting Social Security Early at 62.5 or waiting till like 70+ for the higher monthly payout?? I put together an entire spread sheet calculating what I would collect back overall if I started drawing a lesser amount at 62 or waiting for the higher amount 10+ yrs later. Both of these income benefit curves intersected at about the ripe old age of 87 years old when the payouts were equal. If you plan on living way longer than 87 year old, it may be to your advantage to wait till 70 or later to start drawing. Other wise start drawing as soon as you can, even if it is a lesser amount. I calculated all the males in my family and went back 5 generations to see what the average age was when they died, or lived to, and it came in at 87 coincidentally. However, as we see our Government going bankrupt I figured that I would start drawing right at 62.5 yrs old anyway, and get that full decade of income now. And if you have been married to a spouse who dies before 62 Yrs old, the surviving spouse should start drawing on their spouses Social Security benefits and let their own personal SS benefits max out over 70, then switch over when it Maxes and start drawing off your own benefits. Lots of people do not understand how this works and you could be cheating yourself out of the best SS benefit plan payout. The Government will always try to convince you to wait longer to collect, and hope you die before you collect a dime. And once you start drawing, you can’t change your mind and switch back. So pay attention.

    • Ugly says:

      On earth, the true safe spot is the one you know the best….

    • The Last of the Real says:

      The grave. None of us are making it out of life alive. The act of living is simply an eventually futile attempt at staying alive. Me? I like high risk exercises. I see it as, I already know I have to die at some point…may as well do something worthwhile before it happens. I realized a while ago you can’t really live until you lose your fear of death.

  2. Warchild Dammit! says:

    Will draw a line in the sand for better or worse in the hampster,left my birth state due to govt. insanity,tis as far as I am willing to give.Me dad on the other hand is seriously considering out of country,while I respect his decision,once again,have been pushed as far as I am going to go,push and find my back is against the wall with nothing to lose and a attitude of a rabid weasel.

  3. watching and waiting says:

    No where will be safe.

    People, world wide are under estimating the extent and volume of geographical earth changes that are upon us.

    No, I am not speaking about Global Warming, Al Gore thing, bless his heart.

    The best place is the place you already know.

    I would not relocate to another country, well…..maybe Canada, but no where else…… only if there was no other choice.

    Does anybody have any idea how much the world hates us since Obama came into office? look at the spy scandals.

    That is just my opinion……

    • Anonymous says:

      It seems really odd to me that many people equate the issue of global warming to Al Gore. Its as if that is the first time many people ever heard of it. (??!!) I’ve read numerous books by many different climate scientists, including the very foremost ones, and also books by geologists (oil men) who realized the reality of global warming, and all sorts of experts. and national geographic magazines, etc. Is that all the experience you people have on global warming? Al Gore’s speeches? How pathetic! Poor old Al Gore was trying to do something positive and everyone hates him for it, and laughs at him for it. Global warming was not invented by Al Gore!!

      • Archivist says:

        Algore was trying to do something positive for his bank accounts. If he was trying to help the environment, he wouldn’t be living in a mansion using ten times as much electricity as the rest of us, or have three widescreen TV monitors on his desk for his computer, or fly jets all over the world. He invented the carbon credit scam. He keeps pushing the global warming scam in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Global average temps have been pretty level since the 1990s. The hottest summer on record was back in the 1930s.

        They were talking about global warming back then. The tide turns about every 40 years. There was cooling in the 1890s, warming in the 1930s, cooling in the 1970s, and warming in the 2000s. Over 100 years of climate alarmism and we still have polar ice caps (in fact record levels), and the oceans haven’t risen (or else water would be coming into my back yard.

        They said the oceans would rise three feet and flood coastal cities, including New York City. Actually most of New York City is way above the three-foot level. Even a 30-foot rise wouldn’t flood all of New York City.

        Temperatures go up. Temperatures go down. Precipitation increases and it decreases. We could actually grow more food if the average temps did increase some.

        When I was growing up, you didn’t see every little aberration in the weather trumpeted on the news. You can check the records and see that there were many extremes, but we never heard much about them. My area would get hit by a hurricane, and it wouldn’t even be mentioned on the national news. Of course, the national news was only 15 minutes long, including commercials.

        We had many more days above 100 in the late 1950s than we’ve ever had since then. There were many records set then that have yet to be broken. We also had some record cold weather. One February night in 1958 had a record low for my area that has never been broken.

        It seems that every time it gets a little warm, people start saying it’s the hottest it’s ever been. Actually, they’re wrong. I can remember when I was younger just sitting still in the house and sweat was running off of me. I have the weather records for my area going back to the 1930s and can see that we haven’t had any hot weather to compare with the 1930s and 1950s.

        Yes, Algore didn’t invent global warming (or anything else), but he sure is trying to wring every penny he can out of the scam.

        • eppe says:

          Funny, we always called it ‘seasons’…

          • Anonymous says:

            Funny, you don’t know the difference between climate and weather. (Seasons have to do with weather). Ignorance is not applaudable!

            • eppe says:

              Clap, clap clap….
              Golf clap, clap, clap….
              You probably are an Al Gore believer….

            • Grafique says:

              I do know the difference between “climate” and “weather”.

              You claim there’s “climate change”.
              Well, then, show me ONE climate that’s changed!
              Show me where a tropical climate has become temperate.
              Show me where an arctic climate has become tropical.
              Show me where a desert has become rainforest or vice versa.
              Show me where any climatic zone on the earth has changed from one climate to another.

              You can’t – because there is no “climate change”.

              The “global warming” alarmists say that severe weather events will increase as “global warming” continues, but –
              Antarctica has just set a record for coldest temperature since record-keeping began.

              America just finished its QUIETEST tornado season on record.

              America is in the midst of its QUIETEST fire season on record.

              It’s been NINE YEARS since a major hurricane hit the U.S.

              Of all the Big Nanny Government hoaxes designed to panic the sheep, “global warming” tops the list. The “global warming” movement is full of communists and leftists.

        • Anonymous says:

          Archives, what you said was a lie– don’t know if intentional or not– but the hottest average temperature was NOT back in the thirties… and yes, temp rise and temperatures fall. That is called weather. Weather is not climate. Look it up. CLimate is over-all global temperature. There is only 2 degrees temperature difference in the global temperature we have today and the global average temperatures during the last ice age. So a small amount of change in GLOBAL AVERAGE TEMPERATURES is not insignificant.

          Its not a matter of “a small amount of change in temperatures people start talking about global warming.” Incorrect assumption on your part. THE ICE CAPS ARE MELTING!! Humans have never lived during a time when there were no ice caps! The ice caps are what keeps our planet at a hospitable temperature… no ice caps and it heats up rapidly! According to the US Navy, as well as top climate scientists, the summer sea ice at the north pole will have completely melted away by around 2016. Do you have any idea what this means?

          There was this experiment performed on TV with a bunson burner. They placed a small amount of snow in it and set it over the fire. As long as there was even a small amount of snow in the bunson burner, it kept the temperature cool in the bunson burner. But when the last little smudge of snow melted, the temperature heated up RAPIDLY– immediateley! inside the flask. Now, what do you think will happen to us when the ice caps are gone? And if you don’t even realize they are melting, for God’s sake, look it up!!!! You people are so pathetic when it comes to global warming, its unbelievable!

          And that is only one aspect of the situation! There are trillions of tons of methane in the permafrost located at the north pole. (Permafrost is permanently frozen ground, thats been frozen for millions of years). Methane is 25 times more powerful than carbon dioxide as a green house gas. Guess what? The permafrost is defrosting!!! Why? Because the north pole area is heating up about 10 times faster than the rest of the planet. When that methane starts leaking out in earnest, there is no way we can put it back so our goose (or our children’s goose) will be cooked!

          • slingshot says:

            Everything the government has told us is a LIE.

            Inflation.
            Unemployment.
            Immigrations.
            Gun Control.
            I.R.S.
            Obamacare.

            Including Global Warming. Replace Global Warming with our Energy Plan.
            Besides Russia and China and all those third world country’s have been belching CO2 and SO2 with no restrictions. Oh! We have to lead the way. No Coal up north for the electric plants . Freeze your asses off. Like I said, Do Gooders on somebody’s else’s back.

            When I hear Al Gore, I vote for Hillary. Going to pop this sucker like a BIG ZIT.

          • Archivist says:

            There’s more ice in Antarctica now. Algore said the icecaps would be gone by now. Also, check your geography. There is no permafrost at the north pole. The north pole is over water. So I guess your methane theory is wrong. You should know that the most important greenhouse gas is water vapor.

            The raw temperature data has been fiddled with beyond belief, not just here but around the world. Also, there has been no accounting for the fact that so many weather reporting stations have become surrounded by developments which create heat islands. Some of the official stations have been found to be located next to AC units and other artificial sources of heat.

            I guess you believe the “hockey stick” graph that said temperatures were flat for 10,000 years and then suddenly skyrocketed in the 1990s. Actually, if you look at the carbon dioxide vs. temperature graph that the global warming crowd was using, you will see that the temperature changed before the carbon dioxide changed. In other words, warming causes carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way around.

            I do not lie. I failed to say that the hottest year on record was for the United States. The 1930s was the hottest decade on record in the US, using the original temperature readings, not the “adjusted” ones.

            As I have said before, it’s pure arrogance to think that humans can change the whole world’s climate. Of course, you’re probably one of the people who think that George Bush steered Katrina into New Orleans.

  4. Cellar Spider says:

    Fantastic article and very informative. Very well written. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks.

  5. jerryrbg says:

    I say this reluctantly because I know the intentions of the people involved are of the highest caliber, I can feel it and I don’t want to put anyone on the spot…

    Serious relocation to anywhere to be safe from what is staring us in the face should have been done a decade ago… minimum…that is, to give you the ability to establish, not only the “homestead” but the bonding with the locals. Without that “bonding”, you won’t succeed.
    Unless of course, you have hundreds of thousands of the frn’s laying about…and you don’t know what to do with them…and you “buy” your way in or start your own country…

    Either way, we’re long past that stage…and should be concentrating on short term survival…
    Because it’s at the door, or more accurately, at the border…

    God help us all!

  6. I left North Idaho (boundary county) in the 90’s because that place sucks. Non government intrusion? GIVE ME A BREAK! The police in Idaho are truly Nazi Storm troopers. Have an extra income tax while you are at it for more enslaving bureaucrats on top of 6% sales tax across the board with already outlandish food prices. I spent 42 years there so I think I have a right to disagree with this OP. Oh and here is some more great things about N Idaho, wood ticks.. LOTS of them with Lyme disease, mosquitos from hell, horseflies, deer flies, no seeums, and 30 below zero winters. wolves running in packs killing everything that moves and grizzly bears with more rights than you have. Shoot one in self defense and see what happens. I was up there burying a long time childhood friend last fall and the place is getting WAY to crowded and this article is not going to help. I would not consider N Idaho until at least a year after SHTF and the Border Patrol, Forest Service, US Immigration, US Customs, and all the left over spooks from the Christopher Boyce mess and Ruby Ridge Fiasco are cleaned out. My wife is also from the area and told me she will divorce me before she moves back there. I would only consider going back there to establish a jump off spot to hightail it into Canada. But again, after a year of the EMP, it would be a possibility as the masses will be cleared out and it is my old stomping grounds.

    • Nopittypartyhere says:

      Govt owns ALL water rights as well, it i recall. Even private ponds.

      • Stan522 says:

        And that may mean something depending upon how far shit crumbles.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          I don’t know if I would want to live in a small community where everybody living there is an armed to the teeth paranoid prepper from someplace else. I prefer the dumbed down area are where I live, and where nobody has more than a few days of groceries. Within a week they will all be dead or moved out to their relatives place. And then the entire neighborhood is mine. Something to think about. Like who on your block or area has any clue or even knows what prepping is? DHS will just drive down my street and laugh, and then move on. No threat here.

      • Nopittypartyhere says:

        Don’t understand why someone would down thumb. In Idaho the state claims all rights to water, and I think I would want to be aware of hat given that there is a DROUGHT.

    • Malfador says:

      So where do you live now. I lived on the east coast for 42 years and Northern Idaho is paradise compared to NJ. Sorry but you have no idea what crowded really is until you’ve lived on a coast. Spent a month up there last year and my wife and I will be moving next year. Thanks for making room.

      • Not a problem, you can have all the N Idaho you care to tread upon as far as I am concerned. I moved west from there to my home state. I am not telling anyone exactly where b/c I don’t need what happened to N Idaho happening here. At one time n Idaho was truly paradise. Great place to be through the 70s. Now,not even. But of course I have traveled to the east cost and I bet to the people from there n Idaho seems to be paradise. Here is a tip, in cold weather say after nov 1st, hang your gutted deer outside with the hide on. It will be a bit harder to skin but the animals like birds and stray cats (not wolverines tho)will leave it alone and there is no trimming when hanged skinned. saves alota time cutting it up and no waste.

    • .02 Thanks for your candor. I am from the Pac. Northwest and have spent some tine in northern Idaho. It Seems pretty heavily populated to me, although pretty. I have some friends from there and they all live elsewhere. I think all of the advocates of move here now are from somewhere else. Lots of good places in the U.S. Keep an open mind.

      • I am still real close by, just not into being jammed in that skinny valley with all the roads to the mountains THAT I BUILT gated and guarded by butch dykes with guns. AKA forest service.

    • I live Exactly where the author is talking about and I LOVE it here. The people are great, with a positive attitude. Old school pantry, root cellar, and garden types. Of course you will always have a small amount of libs, negative type people and non producers, but the harsh winters, dangerous wild game, and little itty bitty bugs run out most of the assholes, and hopefully they wont come back.

      • And you have lived without running water and electricity how long?

        • Warchild Dammit! says:

          02,you really have found predators/scavengers will leave a deer alone if skin on and hanging.I will admit never tried it but in northern hampster/maine/vt would think the bears would go for it.

          • Bears are hibernating in the winter. The ONLY time we lost a deer in 58 years of my life hanging outside with hide on was from a wolverine. They are very few and far between but when it comes to mean and nasty per square inch, those bastages are bad to the bone.

            • Warchild Dammit says:

              I guess depends on season and obviously location as to when bears skeddadle.I saw one in Vt. in January trudging thru the snow,guess someone woke him up from his nap or he is hibernation wise a night owl.I was glad not the one who woke him up!

            • Warchild Dammit says:

              Same with the fisher cats,just give em plenty of room though and so far never had a issue with em.Saw one killed on road yet not really crushed,like a idiot hesitated and didn’t turn back till a few miles down road,was going to skin and leave carcass for whatever hungry,going back,saw a big ass truck heading my way,yep,crushed it to a pulp.Moral here is,he who hesitates loses!

          • From mid october until mid april the deer hanging with hide on is frozen if hanged in the shade. i got into trouble one year up in eastport b/c I had 2 elk and a deer in the freezer and ran outa room and my son shot this ripe ole rutted huge buck that smelled like he had been sleeping in the homeless piss, so we gutted it, cut off the scent glands, MAKE SURE you cut off the scent glands on their legs with a separate knife that you gut with, and hanged it in a big birch tree in the backyard. from thanksgiving on. Well of course we have those POS Feds driving by my the house every day going to work at the border, (we owned the first piece of private property in the US going south) and here comes Greg Johnson the game warden. 5 foot 6 inches tall and 140 pounds soaking wet with the typical short man big badge attitude. He waltzes onto the property, goes and checks out the deer, it is now april 15th or so, and says “you have 24 hours to get that processed or face a fine and lose your hunting privileges for a year for wasting a game animal.” So, i took the ole guy down and there was still ice formed in the rib cage, cut him up and that deer tasted so good you couldn’t believe it. Most rank rutted bucks are tough, smelly, stringy and nasty, but if you do as I am describing, they will come out fork cutting tender with less smell than prime beef.

            • idahoen says:

              02, Greg is retiring this year. His replacement is going to have one heck of a reputation to uphold.

            • skeptic says:

              02. I appreciate most of your posts. Have killed and eaten a lot of deer and elk. I agree with the keep them cool and age before butchering. If you don’t have the cool weather you can keep your meat in ice in coolers and, after checking it remains at approx. 39 degrees. This is perfect for hanging also. Several weeks like this and it makes for wonderful eating. Don’t know how many contributers do these things. Would like to.

            • Warchild Dammit! says:

              Baby,good pics of the fisher cat: ht tp://fishercatscreech.com/fisher-cat-pictures/ ,I put a space between http to avoid moderation wait,tis a member of weasel family and if screwed with can be a very dangerous handful.That said,give em room and they feel the same for most part but have especially at night been known to attack pets(did pets start it?),good looking critters as photos show,just view if you see one from a distance!

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            He left his nagging Ex wife hanging out there too all winter, and nobody else wanted her either. Ur safe!! lol j/k

        • Off grid does not have to mean “without running water or electricity”. Unless of course you have a negative mindset and little skills. But I have lived without both for a while. its a Chore, thats why motors are rated in horsepower. The glass is half full… from Naples

  7. Rex Red says:

    Are you crazy. You won’t have a choice when and where to relocate. Maybe if you’re worth a few million you might beat the stampede out on you helicopter, but for most it’s going to be hell on earth right in the neighborhood. Not practical at all unless you’ve got money to burn. This topic has been discussed in a free book. It covers the situations most of use will face. What’s the surprise? It every man for himself. China and Russia are not intimidated by the West. They are taking care of their citizens militarily and economically while the leaders in the West are stuffing their personal pockets first. Of course corruption is universal, except for the fact that the Chinese and Russian crooks always throw some cheese to the mice. The rats in the west won’t share. Meanwhile the citizens who elected the mentally deranged politicians that created the S that is about to HTF, are faced with a disaster of unparalleled proportions. All the political and economic indicators point to the inevitable conclusion that sooner, not later the S will HTF. If you’re intelligent enough to understand the acronym you have the possibility of mitigating the nasty circumstances your politicians have created. The citizens voted these mentally disturbed beings into office and are partially responsible for the deadly mess they are faced with. Now
    you want to know how to survive. Or maybe your head is still deeply stuck up your own ignoble orifice, and you actually think that Uncle Sam is going to be there to change your pants when the SHTF. No, no, when you find yourself starving you’re going to need uncle spam not Sam, and much more. Get a manual written by a Russian who survived the implosion of the Soviet Union. This is written for Americans who are about ready to be left up the river without a paddle. Believe me, this is cheap or free at AMAZON, it’s called Yankee Anti-Zombie Survival Manual, it gets right down to facts, 101 rules to save your self and family. This Russian has seen and smelled TSHTF in his own country. Only experience can be transferred. Read and survive. This approach of heading for the hills is too idealistic. Check this manual out – people have survived the zombies. Those nasty Russians are alive and thriving, even after their zombies went nuts in 89.

  8. Stan522 says:

    Idaho safe……?

    I’ve been to enough blogger sites and read enough responses to realize there are not too many people from that state that would welcome ANYONE there.

    Good luck…..

  9. Barn Cat says:

    That doesn’t impress me.

    I’m more interested in northwestern Wisconsin, northern Minnesota, and SW Ontario. There are tens of thousands of glacial lakes in those areas. They might only be a city block in size but many are spring fed and they might be 30 feet deep in the middle.

    I also like Michigan’s Upper Peninsula near Lake Superior. Lake Superior water is so clean that Marquette only filters its city water. It doesn’t need chlorine.

    But unless I suddenly inherit a ton of money or win the lottery, I’m bugging in.

    • stu johnson says:

      I have not the money to relocate but I’m already in Minnesota and got the little cabin in the woods in northern Wisconsin. I guess I got a little lucky, I can’t afford to replace what I have. I did live without running water or electricity and it does take an adjustment but it can be done. I did miss a refrigerator but if I was there again I’d figure some way to deal with that. Also how can someone bug out if yer car don’t run cause of a EMP? That one spins around in my head. If nothing runs then its bug in. Unless your already there.
      Have a nice night STU OUT.

  10. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    Well its 30 below and I don’t give a F*ck,Got a heater in my truck and I’m off to the Rodeo!!! SO…when the Grid goes down you got a year of firewood cut split stock and stored? Sounds like a person will spend the majority of the time just fighting the weather. I prefer sunny Florida, mild winter with barely having to turn on a heater. Fresh clean Water water everywhere. Hows that growing season of a few short months going to sustain you? Oh that right you will go shoot a deer and live off of venison all year. Granted the photos are pretty, but…I give Idaho only (2 Stars), just for remoteness. When they freeze month after month I will be out fishing in a bass boat, with thousands of critter in the woods including wild pig which is delicious and ponds, lakes and streams stocked with fish year round. And if I wanted salt water fish kayaking out a mile or 2 is some of the best fishing ever. No Volcanoes in Florida, lots off fresh rain daily for and hour or 2 and the growing season is year round. I lived in Wisconsin in my early years and could not wait to get out of the brutal winter weather,shoveling snow, and huddled around a heater 6-7 months a year. Just saying, think about what you are going to get yourself into. And if for some reason I need to leave the country, I jump in a sailboat and head off into the sunset, snorkeling or scuba diving for fresh daily lobster and spearfishing in the oceans buffet endless supply. Don’t get caught up in the romance of a story, as you don;t feel the minus zero temps in just words.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      I will follow up with, Yeah everybody, Quick Y’all go to Idaho!!! lol (sarcastic)

      • slingshot says:

        Yes, go to Idaho

      • Ugly says:

        I am already here !!!!

        • Malfador says:

          Same here. Also Idaho is now closed all non residents are asked to leave and don’t let the door hit ya in the ass.

          • “Idaho is now closed all non residents are asked to leave and don’t let the door hit ya in the ass” says the transplanted greenhorn from New Jersey.. ahaha that is fvkin funny! Might want to hurry and mask that accent Mal, as the rednecks are gona be saying “you aint from around these parts are ya boy?”.

            • Malfador says:

              Says the inbred turnip that lived here for years and now bad mouths it. I’m sure you would fit right in on the west coast. Glad you made your living leaning on a shovel because education does not seem to be your strong suit. Don’t worry the stronger, smarter people will be just fine in the north. You older guys are free to move where the old bones can warm up quicker.

            • obtw, you can thank me when driving on the roads and bridges while you are up there. what can I thank you for, Chris Christie?

              • SSSShh… 02….. they are repairing the BF bridge right now. Im sure it isnt the part that you built. Must be one of those transplants from Ca (like me) that Fkd it up.

              • Malfador says:

                Typical government employee, wanting someone to thank them for getting tax payer dollars. You don’t have to thank me for anything. I do my job and go home I don’t expect people to thank me for working. Especially not the people paying me. Hope you now see, you’re part of the problem.

              • Goes to show what you know. The roads are built by private contractors and maintained by the state. Might want to do some research so your ignorance don’t show,, intellectual..

            • Malfador says:

              Hey stupid who do you think pays the contractors? I mean I know Idaho has some of the worst schools but not even you can be so dumb to think the government doesn’t pay for the roads! I mean if that were the case you’re probably just going to forget to breathe and expire. I mean where do you think the money comes from the Tooth Fairy?

          • Archivist says:

            I can go there if I want to. I have a long list of relatives who have lived there close to 100 years, almost as long as ID has been a state. If anyone questioned me, I would just ask “Do you know ______?” I would eventually come to a name on my list that they recognized. A lot of the old timers in ID came from NC, so there’s not a big culture difference for me to overcome.

            I may never get to Idaho, but I believe I would fit right in if I did move there.

      • Kulafarmer says:

        I agree,
        EVERYBODY
        Please, go to Idaho!

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        When SHTF, I will stir up my PsyOpps, and place pre-made signs all over town on telephone poles that read: “FREE FOOD at the Police Station,” “FREE working Obama Phones at the National Guard & Military Bases “FREE MEDICAL CARE at the DHS OFFICE” “FREE BUS RIDES at the Bus Station. Got to keep them all busy and distracted. FREE FOOD arrow signs pointing to City Hall, Lunch at 12-Noon, Dinner-5PM. The masses will all be heading to these facilities in hoards demanding their Free Food and Obama Phones. I will put these sign up, on my way out of town.

    • Buck says:

      Based on estimates and the studies by the United States Census Bureau, the population of Florida in 2013 is estimated to be 19,317,568, which is the 4th largest population in the United States. This growth displayed a 2.7% increase from the last census taken in 2010. Based on the population and based on the area of the state, the population density of the state is about 353.4 people per square mile, ranked the 8th largest population density in the United States.

      Good luck with that!

      • slingshot says:

        Buck.

        There is a lesson to be learned in this.
        Florida does have plenty of people that are doing fine now. Wait till the utilities are disrupted. We are now in hurricane season and we just had a storm roll by us.
        They are plenty of creatures that come out of their holes when a major storm hits. We also have a bacteria that can eat flesh at an alarming rate and another bug that is like encephalitis with a high mortality rate.
        Snakes! Besides the 4 major poisonous we have the exotics like Boa’s and Pythons. Then add those nasty lizards people have let go in the wild. We also have black bears that are becoming a nuisance.

        So if you are coming south you must be willing to deal with the environment.

        We have some new mosquito bourn stuff call Chick V? Gives aches and pain in the joints with high fever. Comes from the Caribbean Islands. Dengue Fever is showing up too.

        So if you are going to move. Check into the critters and bugs section.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Buck, I believe Florida is now about 19.5 Mil. which most are over 50 yrs old. Retires, since there is ZERO State Income Tax and all these Pensioners coming down are bringing their money and wealth with them, supporting the housing industry. My prop value is about $250K and I only pay $995 a year in property Taxes in a large city. My average electric bill is about $70 a month on ave year round, which also includes A/C and electric Heat. My 5 year old vehicle has NO Rust on it, and still looks brand new, and as long as you have overhead parking cover, the paint does not fade either. Our GOP Governor just signed 5 PRO-Gun Bills, leading the country with its now OK to fire a warning shot, with No ramifications, instead of shooting the bastard. 1 in 17 people in FL has a Gun Carry permit, and any person over 18 yrs old, as a Non-Felon can keep a fully loaded pistol with one in the chamber ready in their glove box in their car, since we decided that our Autos are also our castle, and have protections just like if we are at home( Castle Doctrine). In the Mid of winter it may be 80 degrees and can have a BarBQue on the Beach on New Years Day. Our winters are short days just like everybody else but only last from Mid Dec to Mid Feb, then its spring break, and we are flooded with 20 Yr old bikinis. I can go biking, kayaking, fishing, hiking, trail riding, 365 days a year, No snow shovels are allowed and the only gloves I wear are while biking or working in the garden. The majority of the population in FL are in Miami and the Tri city of Tampa, St Pete and Clearwater, Orlando and Jacksonville. Oh and don’t forget the FL keys where we go lobstering for fun. And I will also tell you this we have some of the Most Gorgeous Women on the Planet right here along with our top class “A” beaches where the sand is white fine and soft like sugar, which is next to the beautiful clear turquoise water and wildlife. Yes We have Gators, Snakes, Sharks Stingrays, barracudas, and yes Mosquitoes but who doesn’t have those too. The concentration of the majority of the population is in the larger cities, where Miami-Dade has about 2.6 Mil; Tampa Bay area 3.5 Mil; Orlando 1.2 Mil and Jacksonville 1 mil. And the other 10 Mil are spread out over the state which Florida is the largest State in the Union, East of the Mississippi with 58,681 square miles, and ahead of 2 pc of Michigan is next behind Florida. The world flocks to our state and spends their money which reflects a large collection of sales tax and NO State Income tax, Homestead exemption taxes, etc. Being orig from Wisconsin, I have Zero regrets moving to Florida 20+ yrs ago. I just got back this AM from a 15 Mile bike ride to a beach park and back. Anyway, life is full of choices, and I weighed this all out a few decades ago. Like I said live here for a few winters and you will kick yourself of not living in a warmer climate. My daily uniform is shorts a t-shirt and flipflops, Why live up north and freeze your ass of half the year for nothing? Peace out!!

        • slingshot says:

          WWTI

          Florida is a good state to live in. As before you all have read my comments about Closet Yankee’s. I do not mind people coming here in their golden years but I sure would like them stop trying to change Florida. I mean if you still want what you left behind you should have stayed put.
          Florida is doing just FINE.

    • Kerry says:

      + 100% humidity. Hell no

    • jbird says:

      @whowuddathunkit

      What part of FL? I’m here too. Since we have so much sunshine I’m trying to buy as many solar items that I can. Lamps, flashlights, chargers, etc. Something to be said for the Sunshine State.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Jbird – Central Gulf Side. I prefer the Gulf side to Atlantic. How about you? Hey when I lived up north 20+ yrs ago, and had my own personal SHTF economically, and had my gas shut off going into winter, before I sold my house, I swore if I was going to be poor, I was not going to be living anywhere, where I was freezing my butt off, thus Florida was a no brainer. Shhhhhh…between you and I. When SHTF Grid down, and people loose all creature comforts their brains will kick in with logic. Or have a brain freeze, literately.

        • jbird says:

          @WWTI

          I’m in central east coast. I also lived up north for about 40 years. I don’t miss the cold at all. All my family still live up north. Better them than me. I’m the only one in the family who is trying to do some prepping. No one else feels that there is a need. Oh well…

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            @jbird OK, Spacecoast. — Yeah I have family up in Wisc and Michigan, and hear them complain all winter that it sucks. Life is full of choices eh? I used to run over there on your side of the sandbar, to watch the space shuttle take off yrs ago. Its a little more than a 2-hour drive coast to coast. On a clear day or night we could see the shuttle takeoff on the Gulf side. Pretty cool. Also hear the sonic boom from the shuttle if it flew over to land.

            • jbird says:

              @WWTI

              Yep seen the shuttle take off a couple years ago. Was pretty cool thing to see. I think where I’m at is pretty safe. Small town just south of space coast. At least not in bigger cities south of me.

  11. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    The story reads like a Real Estate Sales Info Commercial. “Caveat Emptor” ~ “Buyer Beware!!”

  12. This Texan Has Had Enough says:

    I have to stay where I am, but I am in a pretty good location except for water. Too old and broke to move now.

  13. Satori says:

    Prepper Tip of the Day #2

    free downloadable Dutch Oven Cookbook

    http://www.isu.edu/outdoor/pdf/2012_cookbook.pdf

  14. the renegade braveheart says:

    .02, it’s interesting what you say about North Idaho. I travelled through there back in 2000 and I was treated like dirt by some of those commies in Couer D’Alene when they heard my Southern drawl. Almost had a fight with one of them. It would’ve made my day to put one of those commie fruitcakes in the hospital. Beautiful country, but I can’t handle those winters. Although I still have my arrangement with a cousin to share her BOL in North GA in return for certain ‘services rendered’, I’m now looking at tax auctions for my own BOL. I want some property with some kind of structure already in place. the way things are looking, there won’t be time to have anything built. As wrong rightfully pointed out, there’s not a 100% safe state anywhere. But North GA is definitely a lot safer than where I’m at now. I have another supply run planned for this month over there. With this trip, I will have 80% of my supplies in place and ready for when I make my final ‘bugout’. I don’t have all my eggs in one basket. No matter what happens, at least I have a place to go to and get out of the stinking city. I have arthritis in my right knee and it really acts up in cold weather. The winters of the Pacific Northwest would do me in. I’m sticking with my beloved South. Appalachia is an excellent place for survival.

    • RBH I’m almost afraid to post this but it is just too sweet.Please keep in mind that I am only kidding, but when you say your female cousin in Georgia is expecting you for “services rendered” you must be careful. Have a sense of humor now.

    • Rbh– Hi. I cant’t let your post go by without pointing out to you that you made the comment about your female cousin in Georgia letting you come on board for “services rendered”. I am sure that you have seen the humor as well by this point. Have a nice day

    • Night Breaker says:

      RB,
      The Eastern Redoubt ( Appalachia ) is a lot Closer and if you have family there that is the best choice , the city people will never make it through those mountains read some of the civil war stories about the fighting in those mountains and Hollers from West Virginia ( battle of the wilderness just imagine those battles today with modern arms!) to the Mountains of Georgia it favors the defenders and is not tank country . About the only benefit that the Idaho , Montana, Eastern Washington has from a tactical standpoint is that it is similar to Afganistan recent vets will know how to exploit this terrane . I will admit that the east coast has its problems but there are areas that could be utilized. I all goes back to METT, mission , Enemy , Time and Terrane , know its strengths and weaknesses , for me my temporary AO is the pine barrens its similar to the Terrane of Vietnams Central Highlands ( so I have been told) minus the Triple Canopy . Dense, thorny , wooded with concealed ravines, swamps, limited visability , ambush country not to much can be done with drones due to the cover .

      What ever you may think Southern New Jersey is not heavily populated in my area and there are few roads leading in and out , the pine barrens acts as a natural barrier between the major cities and the coast some only have one bridge in and out , north and south roads bridges also there are major rivers south ( Mullica ) and north. ( Toms, Forked River , Oyster Creek ) the only wild card is a nuclear threat I am down wind from Washington , Philadelphia, I that case I am screwed and Tatooed . A martial law scenario would be survivable with adequite gear for a temporary bugout and prepositioned catches. This is fourth generation warfare country.

      Know you area and practice in your area with simulated bugouts , use your gear see what you really need and discard what is not used from your pack . Plan ahead , review your routes .
      Do not ever let TPTB wear you down . When it happens all plans can fail at first contact.
      But I intend to overcome this with a little initiative and aided with a small amount of pissed off.

      Let’s all hope this never becomes a reality.

      PLAN PREPARE FORM TEAMS

      RESIST NO MATTER WHAT

      Semper Fi 8541

      • the renegade braveheart says:

        Night breaker and Warchild, the Southern states have long been very feasible for survival. Before the War of Northern Aggression, the economy of the south was almost totally agricultural and we had very little industry of any type. Scots-Irish originally settled the Appalachians during the colonial era and always knew how to survive in that environment. We Southern people are survivors. We survived Indian raids, the French and Indian War, American Revolution, the War of 1812, Mexican War, so-called Civil War, Indian raids in between all of the above mentioned wars, then the Reconstruction era and US military occupation for over a decade after the War of Northern Aggression ended and left much of our region in ruins. We rebuilt our towns, cities, infrastructure, etc. It took a whole century for the southern economy to get back to the level of 1860. We southerners have been through a helluva lot and we’re still around. Yankees did a lot of damage to us and we suffered some setbacks, but they couldn’t destroy us. It’s true they had more manpower, industry, resources, etc., but there was one thing they were lacking in and that was fighting skills. fighting was mever a part of the northern culture, but definitely part of the southern culture. Union General Winfield Scott Hancock once acknowledged that Southerners are excellent fighters. Even General Ulysses S. Grant once admitted that it took 3 of his soldiers combined to equal the fighting capacity of one Southern soldier. southerners have superior fighting capacity and that’s why we were able to keep the Union Army at bay for as long as we did. The south is no less feasible today in terms of survivability. I and other southerners shall persevere.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Yeah and when SHTF in Jersey, Gov Christy will close all the bridges so nobody can leave.

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      RB,you want to take a long walk hit the Appy trail,go north enuff can stir you up a meal.I have wanted to do the whole thing but is a commitment both in time and money to do the whole trail.

  15. Steve in Ramona says:

    Safe is relative…safe from what? In east LA being safe from gangbangers takes lots of home security. Move south to San Diego its safer relative to LA.

    Move to the rural areas of San Diego county away from people and its gets safer yet. Move further east to Julian in the local mountains of SD county fewer people generally safer again.

    Go further east of Julian down to the desert in Shelter Valley where thers is like 10 people per square mile or something that seems that sparse. Guess what it is probably really safe.

    So alot depends on where you are and where you are determines what you have to do to achieve a level of safe that meets your needs or standard.

    We choose to live in a rural area not to far from civilization to make comutes to bad but not too close where my neighbor can hand me a bottle of grey poupon out their window.

    So you can have a certain amount of “safeness” almost anywhere…..well maybe not east LA

    • DaisyK says:

      Steve

      Only about 2 1/2 people per sq mile here in Northern Wyoming. One reason is that there is not enough water to support more.

      I am hoping our small town will continue to supply water; we have a gravity fed well. Also Big Horn River runs through the town. Good for getting water to filter and drink, but not good if you are trying to grow vegetables. Also not good if the Boysen am breaks. It es about 90 miles north and nothing to stop the flood.

      I don’t know of a really good place to relocate. No matter where you go, there is a problem. If Yellowstone blows, the entire continent will be uninhabitable.

      I prep for the relatively minor SHTF. At my age and being alone, I don’t stand a chance if the emergency is major.

      • Muddy says:

        Daisy,
        I think you must mean Boysen dam is 90 miles south of your location. That would put you on the Big Horn around Gryebull. Having lived in Worland for over 3 years I’d have to say that is some of the most God forsaken country I’ve ever been in. Hope you are successful should the SHTF.

      • Steve in Ramona says:

        Daisy

        Where we live in Ramona it is not that sparse but it is rural. My wife and I have prepped and have done the usual things to prepare. We have city water but also have a well so even without city water we have water.

        We have solar, a backup genset wired into the house that runs off a 500 gallon propane tank.
        The genset is for backup when there is no sun.

        We also have a group BOL with 40 acres if we need to leave our home.

        Nothing is perfect and no place is perfect. But we have done what we think is enough to weather most storms. Although maybe not the perfect storm of SHTF events.

        I would prefer everything limp along like it is now then to really go mad max. Nobody should really want that to happen.

        • DaisyK says:

          Steve,

          Where is Ramona?

          You are a lot more prepped than I am.

          I have a year’s worth of food, cat & dog food, and kitty litter. Also a year of tp, aspirin, toothpaste, soap, batteries, etc.

          I have about 50 gallons of water stored in small containers plus a 40 gallon water heater.

          I have a Kelly Kettle, two Kandle Heeters with 4 cases of liquid paraffin, a one-burner propane stove with a couple of dozen small bottles of propane, a fold-down alcohol stove with two cases of alcohol fuel, and a bunch of one-lumen solar lights.

          I, too, hope things limp along for as long as possible. Even if we don’t have a major event, all the food and things I have stored is a hedge against the rampant inflation that I expect we will be seeing soon.

  16. CrabbeNebulae says:

    Idaho is a beautiful place to visit but a horrible place to bug out to! Idaho’s short growing season makes it difficult to grow enough food to sustain a family for a year, even for a seasoned prepper. As another poster stated, living off grid is not a game… and I think most people bugging out to Idaho are in for a rude awakening. They will most likely starve or freeze to death within the first year if they don’t get executed first by one of Idaho’s thugscrum finest or locked up in a FEMA camp unless of course, they are rich and well connected. Idaho is not the freedom loving place it seems to be advertised as throughout the survival/prepping community. The federal government lays claim to nearly two thirds of their land… fancy that! This article is written for the rich and well connected, it is not written for the common man who must live by the sweat of his brow. Thank you very much but I think I’ll just stay put on my little 12 acre oasis in rural deep south and take my chances. Average rain fall here is over 60 inches and I can grow way more than enough food year around, to feed my family… or, for that matter, the entire neighborhood if the need arises! Just saying.

  17. Smokey says:

    There is little or no employment available there. Either bring your money with you or plan on a meager income from piece work out of your home.

    Even medical doctors have a reduced income level there, compared to the coast or even Spokane.

    • Plus it is a right to work state and if you do find a job the wages are horrible. On top of crappy wages the state helps themselves to the sweat off your brow via income tax. So let’s wrap it up here and take a look at the bottom line.
      1-State income tax
      2-Feds own most the land and have a large presence
      3-State owns all the water
      4-Less than ideal growing season/climate
      5-getting over run by wolves which is destroying hunting opportunities.
      6- From the Bonners Ferry Sheriffs website itself: While the deputies who patrol the county are the most visible members of the team, they are by no means the only members of the Sheriff’s staff working to protect and serve; there are dispatchers, detention deputies and administrative staff, all of whom work closely with a number of volunteer community service organizations including Boundary Volunteer Ambulance, Boundary Search and Dive Rescue, and the Hall Mountain, North Bench and Curley Creek Volunteer Fire Departments and South Boundary and Paradise Valley Fire Districts to ensure the safety of everyone in Boundary County, and with multiple other law enforcement agencies, including the Bonners Ferry Police Department, the Idaho State Police, the U.S. Border Patrol and the U.S. Forest Service to enforce local, state and federal laws. (they left out Us customs, BATFE, and US immigration and all the undercover alphabet agencies that are there because I am sure they see N Idaho as a huge threat because of past problems with the uppity natives.) Now, remember what Selco said the badges did during SHTF and don’t forget Katrina as well. You see these “protectors” coming up the road, and there is a shitload of them, gtfo.
      7-Food is expensive
      8-Income level gap causing animosity (us against them attitude from long time locals)
      9-No real cohesion amongst transplants as they are all from someplace else leaving them at the mercy of the Gang of Badges (GoD) and the gangs that will quickly form amongst the locals/family and friends.
      10-Power line infrastructure is vulnerable to storms from trees/mud/rockslides etc. We had a hellova ice storm that knocked out power for 10 days.
      Pros-
      1-Lots of water (you don’t own it but it is there)
      2-Fairly remote, lower population
      3-Access to firewood if the feds let you. Right now no problem, but shtf I expect huge problem.
      4-Some say beautiful/pretty but I think beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. I prefer the Palouse.
      5-People are friendly, for now. WORL? Again, remember what Selco says. That smiling nice family will become murderous psychos in a couple days of shtf.
      6-Close to Canada. I see this as a plus b/c I have many friends on the other side from living on the border for 40 years. Others? Probably not so much.

      • skeptic says:

        02. As I am sure you know, our ancestors in the pac. n.w. killed the wolves by poisoning them. I wonder if people have any idea what it will take to lose them again. There go the good game animals.

  18. TPSnodgrass says:

    We need to remember a small provision,(oft overlooked or not known) in the Patriot Acts I and II, called the Border Exclusion Zone. In those sections, the BEZ allows for a cessation of “Constitutional Rights” if needed, basically on a whim, at any given time, which means, Fourth Amendment warrants, Second Amendment protections as well as First Amendment protections will go right out the window, “if needed in the vent of National Emergency”. the Zone extends from EITHER the southern or northern borders of CONUS, for 100 miles south or north. I for one, have zero attention of living anywhere in either zone. Hope this helps a bit.

    • slingshot says:

      TPSnodgrass

      Who the fuck thinks this shit up. Wildlife passages and Heritage protection. They can come and legally take your stuff because the fuck in the white house says so.

      They own the water rights, the land rights, the mineral rights.

      We need a Damn Revolution!

    • David in Charleston says:

      Not just north and south, it extends 100 miles in from the coasts also.

      • OutWest says:

        It isn’t just the coasts either, David, it
        also includes the Great Lakes which would
        in effect cover the entire state of Michigan.

        Now, that’s something I would like to see
        them try to do. There is a million deer
        hunters that take to the woods in Michigan
        every year. HA! They won’t even try to shut
        down ISIS in Iraq. What a frickin’ joke.

  19. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    Spend a few winters in Florida, and you will wonder why you ever lived up north. That’s crazy up there.

    • But summers in florida? 99 degrees and raining? OMG i cant imagine that.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        So what state do you live in .02? Fess up!

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            Yeah, I went to Seattle one time in Dec. The most miserable experience ever. Cold rainy days after day after day, never saw the sun once. The ONLY bright spot of the place, was the Beer Micro Brewery’s. Oh and seeing Fisherman’s Wharf and the flying fish. When I was walking through the place Boy George was walking by. Freak! was that you .02 cents? I then flew down to San Fran, it was cold there at pier 39. Then went up to Napa wine country. Again, the Photos are pretty, but the cold weather is miserable. I’ve even been up to Vancouver and Whistler for snow skiing. Rain in the town and iceberg Glaciers at the top. The weather is Brutal in that part of the country. Thus the need to soak your soul in beer. Just saying. I will take Florida anytime. Where a Icy Beer is refreshing.

    • aljamo says:

      WhoWuddaThunkIt… Geez, are you the voice of the Florida tourism thinktank? Quit telling people to come to this repressively humid, high cost of living, skunkhole of a government, crowded and already yankee infested state. Many more coming will make this a perfect place for a false flag nuclear attack. Infested with New York-New Jersey know it alls, send them packing to the hellholes they came from and Florida would lose half it’s population. I can only dream about my youth here and how nice the state was then. Now it’s just another rat race. Sign seen on a bumper sticker “welcome to Florida, now go home”.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        @aljamo – That what it is like on the east coast of Florida FT Laud to Miami, All the scumbags from NY NJ come down and go there thankfully. Gulf Coast is more Midwest people. Normal trusting and kind, more of a community. Only think I like about the East Coast of FL is deeper scuba diving. 100+ ft only a few miles out. Gulf side is only about 35 Ft out about 40 to 50 miles then 80 miles out for 100 ft plus to get to the deeper water for deep diving.

      • Kulafarmer says:

        Everywhere is like that, we used to be able to camp on the beach wherever, now no way, not even with a permit except at some crappy spots, still good remote rocky coast line that you can access if you have a solid 4×4 for fishing, good fishing too, all the nice beaches have hotels and condos on them now with just a few exceptions.

  20. The safest place is wherever your feet are firmly planted and you’re looking down your sights!

    At least for a while;)

  21. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    As the weather patterns keep changing there is a deep polar chill going through the Midwest on Tues n Wed this next week. Lows will be in the 40’s. No kidding for Mid July. Had something to do with the Typhoons in Japan. Pushed this polor dip down into the Midwest states. We used to say they have 3 seasons in the Midwest, July August and Winter. Now it is just 2. August and Winter. Ha.

  22. Tacoma says:

    No laughing matter here. dumb ass

  23. Anonymous says:

    You must go on the offensive. Think, what is most important to you. Then what is most important to the enemy. You must get rid of the most important thing that you carry, and what provides it. Many things the enemy can use you for and yet you don’t releize it. After this you can expand to other avenues to explore. Fear not my friend, go forth

    • Barn Cat says:

      OK. The most important things to be are food, water, and firewood. You want me to get rid of those???

      • sixpack says:

        The anon post doesn’t make any sense, please try again…

        • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

          You must go on the offensive. Think, what is most important to you. Then what is most important to the enemy. You must get rid of the most important thing that you carry, and what provides it. Many things the enemy can use you for and yet you don’t releize it. After this you can expand to other avenues to explore. Fear not my friend, go forth

          The IDIOT will die first.

          • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

            Cocaine is one hellova a drug.

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            @WWSI – what is “releize?” You mean “realize?” lol

          • sixpack says:

            Wouldn’t I want to get rid of the LEAST important things, taking care not to leave anything in a condition that the enemy could use it?

            For example, if I had to jettison my radio, I’d smash it beyond repair or salvage, and throw it down in a misleading manner, to hopefully throw them off my tracks if they happened to find it?

            I would keep my night vision goggles but toss the transceiver radio. Why would I care what is important to the enemy, I’m not going to leave them anything they could use anyway.

  24. Ruff Tuff Fightin Puff says:

    friendly warning –

    if you folks only knew … most of you wont make it to the Redoubt to begin with, you will die on the road and those that do will have to constantly fight off the local locals to keep what you have.

    the freezing winter cold, poverty, alcohol, violence, firearms and death is a way of life here.

    even if you move here now you will just be considered a out of state non-local target to rob when times get tough.

    *just a friendly warning is all.

    when the shtf…

    “In the Redoubt, you keep what you kill.”

    puff

    • Welcome to north Idaho. Thanks for cementing my case puffs.

      • Ruff Tuff Fightin Puff says:

        .02 … hello neighbor, i just don’t want folks and their kids to suffer, potentially die needlessly trying to get to a falsely advertised unsafe-place bugout location that will offer most only pain , suffering, maybe death.

        there are 1000’s of great local state and federal parks across zog amerika that offer a small family group of folks a great bugout safe zone if they are properly prepared to head into the woods deep enough to avoid the outside world collapse and lawless anarchy for a year or two.

        *if you need a bug out location look at the remote local parks and national forests with a fresh water source in your area of the country, And learn about “dug-out” homes.

        puff

        • Ruff Tuff Fightin Puff says:

          The Economy Is Going To Implode – Full Version

        • I like the looks of the debris hut. A guy could go into the canyons of the PNW, where there is water, fish, game, and build debris huts along different drainage’s just up and away from the beaten path so to speak. With a willow stick and a small fishing fly and 6′ of line you can catch small trout out of the creeks all day long. In the summer it is nice and cool and in the winter it is fairly protected. Huts are easy to build, work well and blend in. This is the my plan c or d depending on how bad things get. Nothing less than emp and pandemic would push me into that situation.

        • Speaking of neighbors, you, me, Ugly and Dave in Idaho should all get together someplace and tell each other lies.

          • Ruff Tuff Fightin Puff says:

            .02 – haven’t you ever heard the story about the American Patriots and the Militia…

            4 Camo’d up American Patriots in a Militia group from Idaho get together around the camp fire over the weekend to talk about taking over the Federal Government by way of revolution strategy.

            1 is a undercover FBI Agent

            1 is a undercover DEA Agent

            1 is a undercover Mossad Agent

            1 is a undercover ATF Agent

            get it???

            * i appreciate the thought, though my days of meeting and playing nice the neighbors are over for me. i’m heading deep into the Rocky Mtn Bush solo on shtf day. And don’t plan on leaving the bush till my fat store of grub is gone.

            puff

          • 02…I have a place down the street from G johnson, on the exact road mentioned in this article. And another one spitting distance from the highland flats snow park. I think Ugly is in the south east part of the state.

          • Ugly says:

            Lies about what? Idaho isn’t perfect, but not too bad either. It is changing like everywhere else, but what do you do. Idaho has plenty of food produced. Even if bad times come, there should still be potatoes and wheat. That is the problems with BOL in the woods.

        • Old Guy says:

          You need to rethink the parks. Just a short time ago During the sequester. Obama Closed all the parks. Closed the access roads. Some folks couldn’t get to their own place that where on leased land. Go back & read the Article that was Here on the SHTF site.

    • Ruff Tuff Fightin Puff says:

      Ann Barnhardt “HARD RESET”

    • Ugly says:

      Pocatello anyone?

      • Malfador says:

        Meridian for now Bonners Ferry next year.

        • And the robins will be pulling worms out of my garden while you are still under a foot of ice. Good luck with that.

          • Malfador says:

            I’m sure I’ll do just fine with a greenhouse. I’ve dealt with far worse winters in NJ. Cold has never bothered my and the wife works from home.

            • err no. I don’t think it gets to 34 below zero in NJ. I was working in Elmira and the temperature before windchill was a straight up -34. Lets put it this way, we tried to work. There will be days you will not see the temperature rise above 0. Add a bit of wind, like that day in Elmira and you are pushing 50 below. You DON’T BREATH through your mouth or your lungs will freeze and all skin is covered.

            • Well by golly maybe it does. Just looked at the record low temp for NJ and it is -34. Idaho -60. I take back what I said, you will do fine.

            • @ Malfador…Look me up when you get to bonners ferry. I also built a greenhouse and have a good garden. Also pie cherries grow great here and apples, pears, plums and berries. My cherries are ready to be picked. Last winter the native Moyie people said it was the coldest in 20 years. I didnt think it was bad at all. Only problem I had was the brakes freezing on my crane truck… a easy fix with a propane torch.

              • Malfador says:

                Sounds good sir. We will be up there next September.

              • Ugly says:

                Thinking about doing the Sand Point half marathon this September….look for a runner with the name Ugly….will visit area and to the north….but maybe this is a trick? Preppers head to N Idaho in large amounts and then the commies strike….

              • Yes Ugly, no access works both ways and there is a shitload of feds up there. I don’t like the idea of not being able to get out when I want/have to. Pandemic would be a bitch in those tight valleys.

              • 02.. lay off the glue. there isnt a shitload of feds up here… doing what? working where? living where? There are a few border patrol because of the station. Half belong to the same gym as me and are good people.

        • Ugly says:

          Yeah but run Robie Creek one more time….the Broncos heading downhill….yes, i am a Vandal….

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      In Redoubt in the Winter if you are trapped or snowed in. Have no worry, come spring when they find your body clinging to the wood stove, they will pry your fingers off the cast iron door handle, contact your next of kin and give you a proper burial when the soil softens up enough to dig a hole below the frost line. A warning to the inexperienced first timers attempting a homestead in ID. You better get some training first.

    • Ugly says:

      Maybe I’ll move from Pocatello to Caldwell?

  25. Do not fear, you and others wlll come forth to be a sword for truth. Stand your ground where you are. Running is a sign of weakness. This doesn’t mean you cannot regroup 10 miles away or so. Foreign invaders are at there weakest when they come into your town or county. Time is of the most importance. For history has proven that a minute man can confound an advancing army. For this we will defend our country and repell the adversiary. Including the traitors in government

  26. islander says:

    I think I’ll hang loose right here on the Island . The old bug in thing thank you very much plus its a hell of a lot cheaper than chasing some pipe dream of a safe place if SHTF

  27. Stewpedaso says:

    O.K….sure I’ll join your cult. But I have a few requirements of my own, the biggest of which would be…you need to time travel backward in time and remove this article before its posted on the site “where even the officials go for NEWS” trust is a great thing…that I have not achieved with many article writers.

  28. helot says:

    A Very relevant scene from the first episode of The Beverly Hillbillies you all might like:

    Cousin Pearl says,… after rushing into the cabin right after the brakes went out in the old jalopy Jethro was steering, on the account of someone complained the brakes was giving trouble, so he took ’em out,… that’s why they weren’t there…

    Cousin Pearl says,”Jeb.”

    Jeb says, “Yeah?:”

    Cousin Pearl says, “Jeb, Cousin Ellie May come runnin’ over ta my place and she says you sold the swamp ta some oil company!?”

    Jeb, “Well, yeah. I guess I did.”

    [Fast forward a bit…]

    Cousin Pearl asks, “Grannie, how much they gonna pay ’em!?

    Jeb says, “All right! I’ll tell ya! He said around somewhere tween twenty-five and a hundred.”

    Cousin Pearl asks, “Twenty five and a hundred!?”

    Jeb says, rather agitated, “I know it don’t sound like much, but Mr. Bruester seemed to set great store by the fact he was gonna pay me in some New kind of Dollar!

    Cousin Pearl says, “They ain’t No New Kind of Dollar!”

    Jeb says,”Well. It’s New to me. I heard of Gold Dollars, Silver Dollars, Paper Dollars. But he said he was gonna pay me in… what’d he call ’em Grannie!?

    Grannie says: “Mill-ion Dollars.”

    [Fast forward a bit…]

    Cousin Pearl says, “Grannie, gimmie, The Jug!”

    Grannie says, “It’s empty. But I’ll fix sum.”

    Jeb says with an effort as if gettin’ Up is hard to do, “I’ll Go Grannie.”

    [Fast forward a bit…]

    Cousin Pearl says, “It meant, you’re Rich!”

    Jeb says, “Me?”

    Cousin Pearl says, “The richest man in [unintelligible] maybe in the whole state!?
    Oh, Jeb! You can have anything you wont! Do any-thing you wont! Go Any-place you wont!””

    Jeb says, “Yeah. That’s another thing he kept saying. He said I’d reckon I’d be moving away from here soon. …What do you think Pearl? You think I oughtta move?”

    Cousin Pearl says, “Jeb. How can you even ask? Look around you! You’re eight miles from your nearest neighbor! You’re over-run with: skunks, possums, coyotes,… boabcat.
    You use kerosene lamps for light! You cook on a wood stove! Summer And Winter! ! You’re drinkin’ homemade moonshine! Washin’ with home-made lye soap! And your bathroom Is Fifty Feet from The House! And you ask: “Should you move?”!

    Jeb says, “Yeeahhh. I reckon you’re right. … A man’d be a Danged fool to leave all this.”

    He walks away and out the door with a brown jug under his arm.

    [Transcribing is freaking hard to do. I hope you enjoyed the bit as much as I did seeing it.]

    That said. I agree with FerFal. At the Very least, Get close to the small towns.

    However: YMMV. Cause that Hillbilly set=up sure does seem nice. …Ride, Sally, ride. ?

    P.s.

    Wow, drinkin’, Washin’, oughtta, runnin’, and gimmie aren’t in the internet Spellcheck. I guess that Spellcheck bastard ain’t American? …Pardon my statist connotation there. Perhaps, “Americana” is a better way of saying it? Idk? At least it recognizes the word, ‘Ain’t’.
    Who the Hell programs the Internet Spellchecking thingie, anyway? Ozy?

    • aljamo says:

      helot… really loved the Beverly Hillbillies. What a great comedy from the early 60’s. In our youth we all busted our guts laughing at that show. It was hilarious and the best show on tv during that time.

    • Archivist says:

      “richest man in these hills” and the name is Jed. I worked as a legal transcriber in a past life.

      My great-grandmother loved that first episode. That was the only one she got to see before she died.

  29. Kulafarmer says:

    Big bucks,
    What the heck will ya do for work?
    I already live on Maui, think Ill take my chances, kinda hard to swim pr flap your arms to fly here so we are wayyyy more isolated. Plus freakin Idaho is frozen half the year, we got 80degree days in the dead of your winter!

    • Barn Cat says:

      Maui??? You’re toast. That’s as bad as Florida. Maybe worse.

      • Kulafarmer says:

        Oh? Please enlighten me

        • Barn Cat says:

          I can try.

          The 2010 population was 144,000. The land area is 727 square miles. Much of it is uninhabitable. Most people live in a few dense population areas. The native population has the same illegitimacy and crime as a black population elsewhere. It will be a very dangerous place to live after it hits the fan. I think it’s dangerous now.

          • Kulafarmer says:

            Its actually pretty safe, the island of Oahu not so much, but Maui is really quite safe especially if you live upcountry and are not one of the druggie types. We have a large seasonal population and a lot of affluent people. The majority of the natives are real good folks, and the majority of the multi generational long term resident families are also real good folks. The proportion of questionable to solid is very heavy on the can figure it out and be civilized side. We dont have open or concealed cary but we also dont have gun violence here. If you hang out at the parks at 2am you most likely are questionable and those folks will quickly be eradicated by the thousands of solid armed res. we are NOTHING like Fla.

            • Mark says:

              I wouldn’t want to be stuck on one of the Hawaii volcanoes if SHTF. The only advantage to Hawaii is it is truly in the middle of no where! Sorta like a liquid prison.

            • Barn Cat says:

              Hopefully the people in the affluent areas have enough ammo for when the EBT cards stop working. It’s not Chicago where the ghetto dwellers can go in a number of different directions when things get bad. Most likely the ghetto dwellers will head for the affluent areas.

              And of course, Hawaii gets a lot of rain so people won’t die of thirst. And of course, there won’t a Chicago winter that will kill the unprepared. The unprepared could live a long time in Hawaii.

              • Kulafarmer says:

                The affluent ones are some of the ones who will be the worst off!
                Most of the regular folks and the EBT crowd out here will manage, we are still small enough that i think we will figure it out. I have faith!
                There will definitely be bottom feeders, but i suspect they will disappear pretty fast.

            • slingshot says:

              Kulafarmer.
              We are nothing like Florida

              Your right!

              In Florida, out in the boonies, you can pick up a case of jock itch or foot rot real fast. Heat rash for the tender skinned.
              High temps and humidity, rain and wet clothes.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      Kula- I was in Maui for a few weeks. Loved the place. I like High Country. (to avoid the tidal waves) Everything grows out there without even trying. Clean healthy living. Trade winds and No bugs, Road to Hanna, oh yeah. Was all over the place. Maui Winery pineapple wine. Yum. Lahaina and the Old Luau. Scuba Molikini Crater, snorkel turtle beach, north beach. Fun and never had a bad meal. The windmills will keep you electrified.

      • Kulafarmer says:

        I built the bar and tasting room for the winery back in 97, that building was called the Kings Cottage, supposedly King Kalakaua liked staying in Ulupalakua and they would put him up in that house, guess he had a thing for gambling, and the owners had big parties and such back in the day, lived out there off and on for 20 years, live just up the road now, is just as sweet and a little cooler.
        Glad you enjoyed it while you were here, is truly a great place to live. Just gotta block out the left static and even right static sometimes and just enjoy the blessings.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          @Kula – Yeah I just looked at some of my photos at the winery, the bar top is that Koa wood? Nice job on that. Yes it seemed pretty peaceful and quiet up there. I also kept on that road to the south side where the volcanic rock is everywhere. That would be a great place for an Observatory for star gazing, and wine tasting combo. The road up there is quite winding and twisted. Like the Road to Hanna. I wanted to do the bike ride down Mt Haleakala, but did not have time. I would definitely like to go back again. I did the lunch at Momma’s Fish House. One of my Fav’s was Maui Taco – Nothing like a fresh fish taco to fill the belly. I stopped at a Realty office in Paia, and talked with a Realtor, come to find out the guy’s parents only lived a few block away from me here in Florida. Small world. Ever see Woody Harrelson out there? I bet he is a Prepper. Opra, Maybe not so.

      • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

        Maybe wwti should have stayed there, less BS in the states.

  30. talon1776 says:

    Hmmm…maybe just form a huge coalition force.,and take over a FEMA camp. They got beds, generators, reinforced walls, their own water supply, great defensive positions, lots a gov prep food, MRAP’s, lots a guns and ammo and a playground for the kiddies.

    • PO'd Patriot says:

      You been watching too many episodes of “The Walking Dead”.

      • talon1776 says:

        I think there are some points in “The Walking Dead” that can have real world SHTF application…but aside from that.,most of the commenting on this subject is about running from the problem and taking the fight to the enemy..regardless of their high tech gadgets. The Patriots of 1776..improvised, adapted and overcame…enduring unbelievable hardship and personal lost..but they weren’t running from the fight to their comfy BOL..they adopted new tactics and never lost the fervor to take the fight to the enemy…and so what if the FEMA camp gets airstrikes because we took it over…those camps have more to them that is currently known…say underground bunker for the commie occupants already there. Running from the problem only allows the problem to be one larger…so I say..attack a FEMA camp…chances are you’ll free up some obamazoids who finally understand that they are prisoners and may join the fight for Liberty and Freedom….Bigger ideals than ones own self preservation to run from the fight.

        Lie Free or Die
        Talon1776
        A government big enough to give you everything you want…
        Is strong enough to take everything you have..
        Thomas Jefferson

        • talon1776 says:

          Please add “not” taking the fight to the enemy…my apologies

        • PO'd Patriot says:

          I much rather leave the obamazoids to their demise so I won’t have to fight them later and expend precious ammunition and people. They made their bed, let them lie in it. I believe that there is nothing wrong with evading (when prudent) trouble.

          • talon1776 says:

            Many have pointed out on this subject.,that BOL’s and highly desirable states or locations favored secure your chances of survival? In your haste and fear to flee..you become an easy target and just simplifying things logistically for the enemy as you concentrate your numbers in one locale. Willfully abandoning territory because of intimidation is surrender…might as well turn in your arms and call FEMA to send the courtesy van to pick you up. What makes any of you so sure you will transport yourselves to your secured BOL?…without being shot at, obtaining gasoline (as all resources will be under control by the Feds…NDAA) or for that matter traveling on a Interstate that is under Federal monitoring and control. Oh!!!you say you’ll take a state or county back road to evade, avoid…steathly arrive at your secret hiding place with your friends and family…what a nightmare when your in the open and Blackhawks come sweeping down to obliterate you..such behavior would make the Founding Fathers sigh in deep despair. BOL’s are very short sighted, self serving attempts and do not serve the cause of Liberty and Freedom…but they do serve your cause to think of only yourselves and not the larger ideal of Liberty and Freedom. Say you survive the first 30 days of this…what kind of country will you see? Will Liberty and Freedom still prevail? Will you be the last of a resistance that no longer has the numbers to prevail against tyranny? So you will cower in your little corner waiting for the jack booted thugs to finally end your futile attempt to survive…which in the end your BOL will finally have its true meaning revealed…it meant nothing cause you did not stand your ground.

            Live Free or Die
            Talon1776
            “Stand your ground. Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.” John Parker

    • Barn Cat says:

      They’ll just call in air strikes. Wipe everybody out.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      I have a feeling when the entire Grid goes down, Anybody who wears a Uniform for their work will quickly abandon their uniforms and post and run home to their families, just like the Iraqi Army did, when ISIS Ran over them in Iraq in 1 week. And anybody who still has any guts and thinks they will sport their uniform and push their authority around in a gang of 1 or 2, is marked for a dirt nap. Everybody on my street is the Gray man and women, and at least 90%+ is packing heat. Once the random shootings start, they won’t be out cruising around looking for trouble makers. People will be taking pot shots at them. Even if they are in their MRAPS. Anybody who is left on any force will be assigned in mass to infrastructure like power plants or water utility co’s, or public buildings guarding them from rioters. Just my calculated guess. We are on our own when SHTF. Review what happened in Katrina, now on a SHTF Nationwide scale. Obama will do a fly over at 30,000 Ft and wave for his Pres photo opp, like Bushy did. Good Job Brownie!!

  31. Grafique says:

    Why not make your own Redoubt?

    Organize your neighbors and you have plenty of manpower to fight off mobs and keep a 24/7 guard.
    Use the unprepared as weed-pullers and water-toters.

    • Night Breaker says:

      Graftique,
      That is what will actually happen when things settle down after the initial phase ends (the die off within 90 days most of which will be contained In the urban areas TPTB will not be able to sustain operations do to supply chain collapse NO POL no mobility .
      Everything will become local like it was at the beginning of the last century it’s going to be 1900’s not 1800 ‘s not everyone has forgottten the old ways , those that have kept them alive will be the Nuevo wealthy . We will see rail travel again life will be at a slower pace , optomistically in one generation post collapse what we face now will be a long distant nightmare in the past.

      The FSA ( free s**t army ) will be a thing of the past it will end badly for them. The for or urban areas will resemble Detroit or burned to the ground.

      Learn to be self reliant , act locally , build your community one individual at a time.

      Semper Fi 8541

    • Kinda my thoughts and is what I am doing. Let me clue some folks in on this area. From the Idaho line, west to the Cascade range, from the Oregon line at the Columbia River north to the Canadian border, this area grows soooo much food it is insane. Number 1 in the world for apples, wheat fields as far as you can see, potatoes, onions, cherrys, watermelons,lentils, beans, corn, cattle, the list is endless. The Columbia and Snake river basins are truly a marvel.

      • sixpack says:

        I’d love to find some place to settle east of The Dalles, around Hermiston.

        • Yes Sixpack N Eastern Oregon is superb in my book. If anyone here has ever been to the powder river valley in Oregon you will see some of the most beautiful country in the lower 48. It is flipping gorgeous. Pull up a google and search images.

          • sixpack says:

            I did google map it, that’s what caught my attention. I’ve been as far as the hood River area. The farther away I got from Portland, the better I felt. Nothing like fresh picked Hood River Apples and local veggies!

      • Ugly says:

        Wenatchee? Or maybe Prosser. Horse Heave hills lots of food….

        • Yes Ugly, the center of the state from border to border is a food producing bonanza.
          Washington State= 2 mountain ranges
          2 major river systems
          6000+ lakes
          Pacific Ocean
          People say there are too many people here, but after the die off and pandemic, can you imagine all the food that will be growing. Pandemic wont kill the fruit trees. Want to take a look at something? Google map the area between Winthrop east to Republic. I have been through that area many times and there is no one there. I am here to tell you.. it is empty. Look north into Canada.. again..nothing. People don’t understand how remote that area really is, it is incredible.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Yeah by Grand Coolie & FDR Lake by Omak.

    • Barn Cat says:

      Only about 3% of the population is prepping. Very, very few preppers have a bunch of neighbors that are also preppers. Locations like that are rare.

      • Grafique says:

        13 houses on my little suburban cul-de-sac. I know for a fact that three others, besides me, have some preps, though not to the extent I do. My next-door neighbor works at a gun store and is a reloader. He also has a 250-gallon rain catch.
        I guess I’m luckier than most.

  32. swinging richard says:

    If TPTB decide you are a high priority target, it would be hard to avoid the technology they have at their disposal. Best to keep a low profile.

  33. His safe haven red circle touches the Canadian border, and JWR told me personally in a email that he always advises his clients to NOT be within 20 miles of the border due to it being a special border patrol enforcement zone. Personally I thought it was a 100 miles inside our borders, which is BS, but oh well……just wanted to add that.

    Now one local to N Idaho that I met up there feels as though this doesnt mean anything because those border patrol agents are your neighbors. While that may be correct……the zone itself presents it’s own unique problems due to what the corp believes to be law and the fact that in that zone should SHTF, it won’t be those local border patrol agents enforcing anything, it will be military and feds.

    I am heading back to MT today, I have an interview for a RR job ….wish me luck and anyone whose a praying person, please pray for His will here and clear guidance to me…..maybe this will be my families ticket to relocate with one heckuva good job.

  34. Be informed says:

    Dave Hodges truly talks about the real danger of the porous border of Mexico in this article:

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/07/12/the-u-s-is-being-infiltrated-by-paramilitary-forces-and-terrorists-armed-with-wmds/

    MS-13 are getting ready for a TRUE terrorist attack to create a Hiroshima type of attack on American soil. This doesn’t have to be a nuclear attack either. A biological attack could be worse than 100 Hiroshimas. A biological nightmare affects all of us, everywhere.

    • Aahaha you see the Pic of that guy? He is sure going to stand out in the scope! We already did cowboys and mexicans, remember? Feel sorry for these poor smucks as they’re going to DRT in a hurry.

    • Ugly says:

      BI….
      The end days are near. Anybody with any brain cell left knows what the elite are doing to USA. This morning I went for a jog. It does make the world go away for a short bit. Because of liberalism, I have been skipping church quite regularly in past two years. Even the church is clueless of the end-times unfolding right before our very eyes. Anymore, I just read the Bible and listen to Christian radio….I try to see some light in a very dark world. The dark ages are coming back with vengeance. As it says in paraphrase, ‘…things will speed up because he knows that his time on earth, and to destroy it, are short…’ Embrace, because things are speeding up fastly….

      • If you want to really leave the world behind Ugly, grab a flyrod and go streamside. If you don’t know how to use one, all the better as you get to spend a lot of time untangling line and trying to get that hook out of your clothes. The beauty of flyfishing is it takes all your focus on the task at hand and everything disappears. Not to mention being stream side with nature is imo how humans are supposed to live. One tip for you tho, take a pair of pliers and crimp the barb on the hook. Comes out of your skin a lot easier..

        • Ugly says:

          That is why I am not too far from Henry’s Lake and the beginning of the Snake River. Fly fishing paradise. But, I don’t fly fish. Just do it the regular way. A hook, a bobber, and an oly….

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          Before SHTF- Don’t forget to pick up a good Air Rifle in .177 or .22 cal. as they can shoot 1200 FPS. Good for stealth hunting and can takeout a wild pig with a head shot, it is all over Ytube. I had this big nasty black crow harassing my squirrels. Bamm head shot and it fell over like a bowling pin. You can carry a whole lot of pellets for ammo and it is pretty quiet. Check out the Gamo Silent Cat Whisper -$120 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDjZOtp5fj0

  35. Beachfront pad in So Cal, after the wetbacks and melonheads
    kill eachother off over chicken bones should be a real nice place…

  36. Old Guy says:

    I relocated from near where I grew up to a little over a hundred miles west of where I used to live. I feel its a safer place. Where I came from was right on the delta barley in the foothills. Farmers irrigating bred millions of mosquitos and continually sprayed poisons & chemicals. Chicken grower houses polluted the air & water. Invader Mexicans where welcomed with open arms. the elevation was low. flooding was common. taxes where rising. the police & courts corrupt. Drugs everywhere. So I went to a place where the lowest elevation is 700 ft and where Im at is about 1000ft. And less than 1/2 of 1% of the population is a race other than white. In far enough away from my wigger sheeple relatives and aquaintaces. Safer from the new Madrid. Less population. Check out the US Navy map of the future US. I think the coast and low areas are not as safe as the higher elevations. Less densely populations are safer. Where everyone who lives by you knows what it means to be white is safer for a racist like me. I fit in here. I belong here. Where I was at wasn’t to my liking. Ill be tickled if the New Madrid lets loss and that whole place liquifys & sinks.

  37. Tractor says:

    LETS ALL MOVE TO NORTHERN IDAHO
    Pedro and his family will be right behind us, all 10 Million of them.

    • I have news for you, Pedro and his family are already there. The kootenai river valley is full of Budweiser hops and Pedro and family have been there working the hops fields way before I moved away.

      • Yea all 20 of them. You dip shit, there is only 8800 people in the 1200 square mile county. Now Spookane where you live, is another story.

        • I have no problem with Hispanics, you must be rayyyceess,, shame on you.

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            Mexicans work harder than any American out there physically. No Doubt. They just need to enter the States legally.

            • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

              Jealous does not make good neighbors.

            • Ugly says:

              If that were true, then why isn’t Mexico more prosperous than USA?

              • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

                Cause the White Europeans in America were Smarter. Mexicans, would be more prosperous if they had more education and their Government was not so corrupt, like the US is becoming. Kind of like saying why isn’t the Middle class in America more prosperous? The Fix is built in for poverty.

            • eppe says:

              I think that are looking for a better life, can you blame them??? But BO has set it up for them to walk in and claim the RIGHTS that we had to fight for. With that said, why can they not come in legally, like millions have done before??? Oh, I forgot, they will vote DEMO, as what got us into this problem in the first place….
              I work with some who think BO is god, will they not be surprised when they realize they have been DUPED AND MISLEAD???
              I hate to say it, but when BO makes MARTIAL LAW, then maybe they will see what a dictator can and will do…
              Remember Castro came in as a sheep, then turned into the LION…
              I guess it will be up to us ‘patriots’ TO SET THE SITUATION CORRECT AGAIN, as has been done before, only with lead and fire, but who really knows where this is gonna end up????

  38. Poon Tang says:

    Keep one thing in mind, Eric Holder has stated that the DOJ is working with HUD and the Census Bureau to determine which communities “don’t have enough” minorities. They are already sending those communities (nationwide) fresh minorities, paid for by the taxpayers. These minorities will be continually financed, on a daily basis, by the welfare state. The Obama regime is importing minorities as fast as they can. All of those nice states with over 90% white populations, are under attack by the DOJ. Those people who are invading our country from the south, will be on welfare their entire lives. The government is importing many people from Africa, as we read this. They are sent directly to Minnesota, Maine, etc. Don’t feed the beast. This is demographic genocide. This form of genocide is covered by the UN Genocide Treaty. The US Government has refused to sign the Treaty. We all know why.

    • Mark says:

      They have underestimated the white man, they mistook cold patience for weakness.

      THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
      by Rudyard Kipling

      It was not part of their blood,
      It came to them very late,
      With long arrears to make good,
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      They were not easily moved,
      They were icy — willing to wait
      Till every count should be proved,
      Ere the Saxon began to hate.

      Their voices were even and low.
      Their eyes were level and straight.
      There was neither sign nor show
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      It was not preached to the crowd.
      It was not taught by the state.
      No man spoke it aloud
      When the Saxon began to hate.

      It was not suddently bred.
      It will not swiftly abate.
      Through the chilled years ahead,
      When Time shall count from the date
      That the Saxon began to hate.

  39. KY Mom says:

    Off Topic…

    I was on the road most of yesterday. I heard being discussed on talk radio that Obama had ordered the border patrol 45 miles back from the border in Texas.
    Now, when the illegals turn themselves in to the border patrol, they receive additional “rights”.

    Has anyone else heard more information about this.

    If this is true, this is insane.

    Increased security on airplanes. Meanwhile, it is well known the southern border is wide open.

    • Poon Tang says:

      KY Mom, a law was passed a year or so ago, that was intended to prevent child sex trafficking. That law allows for judicial hearings, rather than deportation, for any illegal kid who is away from the border. That is why Obama is in such a hurry to move the kids off the border right away. Once he does that they can’t be deported without a hearing. They just won’t show up for the hearing. Defacto amnesty. Treason.

  40. Warchild Dammit! says:

    Completely off topic:Tommy Ramone dies at 62.While not a huge fan of the Ramones they were definitely different for their times and wrote some can’t get it out of your head tunes,Tommy the last original member,RIP Tommy.

  41. Socrates says:

    There really is no ‘safe’ haven left on this planet. Some areas may seem ‘safer’ than others based on their current proximity to urban centers and other hazards.

    With everyone gathered in certain areas a well placed pandemic or a few neutron bombs and it’s game over anyways. Prepare yourselves spiritually and mentally as well as physically.

    “5 to one…1 to 5. No one here gets out alive”
    ~James Morrison

    I’ll fall back on my other favorite websites motto:

    “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero”

  42. Poon Tang says:

    The Baltic Dry Index has fallen below it’s 52 week low. It is within 150 basis points of it’s all time low. Japanese manufacturing collapsed by about 20% recently. Bad news is speeding up. Time to prep is very short. When it collapses, don’t hide, attack.

  43. aljamo says:

    Off topic, but important article on VeteransToday.com titled Border Breech, The Real Story Behind The Headlines. Don’t miss it.

  44. Texas Slouch says:

    First, Let me say that I own Strategic Location and have read the entire book. Skounsen does a fantastic job. He covers more than rust where to live, but the reasons why we have gotten to this point as well as why the states with very few stars have their ranking and are not desirable.

    However, I tend to disagree with this post and Skounsen on quite a few issues. Skounsen tends to emphasize terrain and the need for living in a climate with a cold, long winter. There are few places that have large urban populations that are filled with welfare goons and demographics that you want to avoid. Well, I guess if you don’t take into account Minneapolis which has been flooded with refugees from Somalia. I disagree with the whole “extreme cold climate” simply because yes, there are fewer people, but you have to deal with extreme cold. Extreme cold is dangerous because it threatens your ability to grow food. Yes, there is plenty of food out there, but if you plan on establishing some sort of stability and attempting a small farm, then N ID, MT, the Dakotas, even most of WY have VERY SHORT growing seasons (sometimes less than 90 days). Look at the polar vortex that is coming next week. The ability to grow and store food may make the difference between life and death.

    Skounsen emphasizes the importance that there are no nuclear plants in the intermountain redoubt. Yes, this is very important, but they fail to talk about the possible threat of the Yellowstone area for Volcanoes.

    I think that ID would be an ideal place, but now that it is 5 stars, it kinda has lost its appeal (not everyone can live in ID). Alaska is really the ultimate frontier, but not rated that high as even now in a non SHTF scenario it is expensive to live their and tough to get supplies. It has also been filled with quite a few Samoans and other welfare goons looking for handouts. Also, ask anyone from AK and they will tell you that there are a lot of “end of the road people” up there. Some are seeking a fresh start, others peace and independence, However, quite a few are dangerous, duplicitous, criminals that prey on folks up there. Quite a few people are murdered by these animals.

    People need to investigate states like AL, TN, MO. What if everyone would lived in marginal states stayed put and refused to comply with any BS laws? I also disagree with his synopsis of AZ. AZ is a mess and will become another CA…along with TX in the not too distant future. I would give the state of AZ like 1 star..it is the illegal gateway. Stay away from the border states. I also would reduce the TX stars to very little. If you are out in the NW part or panhandle, then you are fine. Otherwise, the warmer, wetter, more desirable parts of the state are being overrun with illegals and people moving in from places like CA, RI, and MI coming to get jobs. TX will succumb to the claws of the demoncraps all too soon.

    Bottomline, cold climates keep you away from your largest threat refugees. But, extreme cold can also become a hazard to your survival. I don’t agree with the idea that less desirable states like TN will be overrun with refugees post collapse. Remember, you are talking about people fleeing places like IL and driving hundreds of miles. These refugees are the type people who have less than three days of food and are comfortable keeping their vehicles at a 1/4 of a tank. THey wont be going anywhere post collapse. Therefore, there are quite a few warmer, less highly rated states that will be alright post collapse places. Just steer clear of that southern border.

    • Nathan Cline says:

      ” I don’t agree with the idea that less desirable states like TN will be overrun with refugees post collapse.”

      I don’t agree with TN being labelled as a “less desirable” state. It along with north AL where I’m from are in my opinion some of the best parts of the country…and I’ve been all over. It’s a beautiful state filled with good people, and lots of mountains and hidey holes. DHS has been working out of there, true, but they will end up getting their asses kicked by the locals and sent back to D.C. with their tails tucked.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      I will also add that to be considered remote, you need to be located more than at least one full gas tank away from any major city. So when these unprepared refugees head out from their holes, they will run out of gas far from your homestead. So 400 Miles away from any major city with the bulk of Food Stampers. Go to this site and see what the demographics are of the Food Stampers in your area. Some areas have 50% population living off of food stamps. This is one of the greatest threats we all face. This map is Food Stamps in 2009 looks like, consider what it is now. Horrifying!!

      Dial into your State and County –
      Food Stamp Usage Across the Country – http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/28/us/20091128-foodstamps.html?_r=0

  45. Satori says:

    lax safety procedures at these bio labs is apparently a
    MUCH bigger problem than the public is being told

    Feds Tighten Lab Security After Anthrax, Bird Flu Blunders

    http://ksut.org/post/feds-tighten-lab-security-after-anthrax-bird-flu-blunders

    “Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard School of Public Health, takes that concern one step further.

    “I don’t think this is a CDC problem — I think the CDC is being open about what has happened in several instances there,” Lipsitch says. “But their own prior research has shown that around the country in high-containment laboratories there are errors on almost a weekly basis.”

    US scientist Professor Yoshihiro Kawaoka’s mutated H1N1 flu virus ‘poses a threat to human population if it should escape,’ says critic
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/us-scientist-professor-yoshihiro-kawaokas-mutated-h1n1-flu-virus-poses-a-threat-to-human-population-if-it-should-escape-says-critic-9587952.html

    “Professor Plotkin also said that Professor Kawaoka’s research on H1N1 risks creating a form of pandemic flu virus that poses a threat to the human population should it accidentally escape from his laboratory, which has the second lowest level of biosecurity.”

    what was that again ?
    a lab that has only the second LOWEST level of biosecurity ???

    are you freakin’ kiddin’ me ???

    • Nathan Cline says:

      Call me paranoid but I think these news stories are coming out for a reason, to prepare us to accept their version of events when a plague starts killing people off. After all the billions flushed down the toilet for all this CDC high security bullshit, we’ll be led to believe it was some hapless researcher (with good intentions!) who accidentally grabs the wrong vial off a low security refrigerator shelf and sets off the worst plague since ever. Aka ye olde “the government is incompetent, what else do you expect? *shrug*” excuse.

  46. Ventura66 says:

    I agree whole heartedly with Northern Idaho as a great place to survive………

    One apparent thing you notice in the Idaho panhandle is a lack of minorities and entitlement types………..

    Plenty of water, timber, and like minded folks……don’t go there if you depend on a monthly check from the county, for your fatherless kids………

    • sixpack says:

      Been using that one in Portland Oregon for decades.

      • Socrates says:

        Sounds like that is prime material for a lawyer to utilize against them. If the alleged 911 call did not originate from that household to begin with then the justifiable cause was possibly invalid to start with.

        Shouldn’t be that difficult to prove one was either not at home to make the call, or call did not originate from that household. And if it did originate from someone, somewhere, who and where was it? Phone booths and anonymous calls are a thing of the past…just ask the NSA. Use their own tracking and technology against them.

        • sixpack says:

          The problem is finding an attorney, especially a public pretender, who will actually DO something. Unless you’re being tried for murder, most won’t even make the effort to prove the police lied about a phone call…and the police know it. 94% of all crimes are plea bargained and never see a jury trial.

          Besides, once you’ve been arrested and have sat in jail, lost your job and maybe even your place to live, it doesn’t much matter how you got there. Most of the time these warrants are only for misdemeanors and drug crimes. Not the kind of thing most people care about absolving you of.

  47. logicrazy says:

    The strength of community will be more than one, like breaking one stick is easy, but a bundle of sticks is hard to break. Pick and choose your community wisely. Then just try to stay out of the way when things get bad, but if the fight comes to you be ready for hell…

  48. Longsnowsm says:

    Within 100 miles of the US border? You live in a constitution free zone… You have no rights. Next look at the year around precip distribution, and the elevation factors. Every 1000 feet above sea level you drop one zone in climate stability. Lots to take into consideration when chosing a location. States rights, gun rights, proximity to nuclear power, and govt facilities, etc. It is quite heady as you get into the details. Transportation corridors that will exist such as water and rail. Remember fuels will be hard to come by or if available at all we likely will not be able to afford them. So take your time to dig into this topic much further than Joel’s recommendations. I ran through this scenario a couple of years ago and made a decision last year. I narrowed it down to 5 states, and more narrowly to specific small areas in those states. This location that Joel mentions was on my list however there were factors that made it a harder sell for me. Every location on my list had compromises. So don’t think your going to find a perfect location. You will have decide what you can live with. I would focus on the year around distribution of precip and USDA plant hardiness zones as your first look and then start deep diving from there. Get a satellite image of the US at night and look where the population density is… Mostly east of the Mississippi river so you might want to start narrowing your focus to west of the Mississippi river as a starting point. Hopefully you get the drift.

    I made my decision, bought my property, and now in a mad rush to get basic infrastructure and permaculture design work done and get a basic bugout location up and running. Best of luck if your still looking for a good location. It is hard work for sure. God Bless you all!

  49. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    If and When SHTF! Good Luck ALL. Sharing with mostly like minded on this site, gives a feel and a pulse of what America is thinking. Prep the best you can, and prepare mentally ahead of time, of what if.. Then Let er’ Rip!! And NEVER Give up, or let them take your Guns Away!

    • eppe says:

      WWTI, Why did you you give me so much grief and discontent in your earlier posts? I am one who tries to forgive and forget, and would like to be on your side? We are all in the pile of poo together, and would like to bury the hatchet, if you know what I mean. If you ever came up to Jawja, I would enjoy have a beer with you, and I bet we are so much alike, it would surprise you. Can we work together to make this site better? I think in the same realm as you and would like to work together to help other to see we are on the same side? What do you say???

      • eppe says:

        The offer applies to you .02, we have seen things in different ways, but can we all get together on the same page and try to be sociable to each other??? We are on the same team, and I am tired of all of us bickering between each other on the same subject? And red thumbing each other down, we should all team up and make a REAL change to change what is REALLY going on, which individually cannot change, but together make a difference???

        • slingshot says:

          eppe.

          The odds are, many of us will never be able to work together. Even those with preps for over a year may not make it past the first 90 days.
          Why? Because it is all about attitude and opinions.
          Worst than the enemy at hand.

      • Nopittypartyhere says:

        We’re you looking at Thunkit or Suckedit’s posts? There’s a skunk around here…

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        Eppe, Thanks for reaching out, I would like for people to just keep their religion to themselves, like Graphiq should do. And try to stay on topic. I don’t hate any body. I am sure you are a good guy. Again, Thanks for reaching out. When SHTF I am sure we have more in common that the other 95% pee brains out there.. Peace. And stop red down thumbing me. lol

  50. Patriot Mom says:

    We chose North Western Montana. I’ve been to CDA and Sandpoint. CDA has greatly changed, in the past 20 years. It’s no longer the old CDA I remember that was like a little paradise. Sandpoint is lovely, and I liked it there. I’ve also been up to Bonners Ferry and liked it even better. If I were to go over to Idaho, I’d probably use Bonners Ferry or a bit north of it. I’m surprised by how much CDA has changed, and I don’t think I’d want to be caught there in a SHTF situation. Bayview is nice, small, a bit remote.

    At this point, I’m aware that just about anyone can make their way far north to escape the city.

  51. Ugly says:

    Remember the movie ‘Jaws’.

    We need a bigger boat….

    Well Americans, we just need a bigger gang.

  52. slingshot says:

    Good Morning SHTF.

    So what have we learned from all this chatter?

    No place is absolutely safe.
    Some places are more desirable than others for comfort.
    Some place’s can be defended while others can’t.
    Cost money to do what we want to do.
    Might involve movement of tons of gear and supplies.
    Ability to transport yourself and supplies.
    The Natives might not like you.
    If you have not started, time and distance is against you.
    Is your body up to doing the job and then continue to do the job.

    • The Natives will like you IF you are of the same mindset. They will not like you if you are a Lib and try to change everything. Every State has its pro’s and cons. It depends on what kind of environment you are most adaptable to. For me, its cold weather, short growing season, no utilities and less people. For others, it may be warm climate, etc. A example is: a cold short grow season requires root crops, grains, fruit trees, canning and a root cellar. Warm climates require canning freezing and drying produce.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      The TESTED SAFE PLACE- People on this site may criticize Florida for being too hot or muggy, but when SHTF for the Native American Tribes back in the 1800’s, when the Cowboys and Military started their “round-up” for the Reservation FEMA Camps, there was only one tribe in the entire country that never surrendered. Yes and that was the Seminole Indian Tribe who retreated into the Everglades, and the US Military refused to go chase them in there. So when I say, head for the mangroves, back water islands, swamps and inlets, where nobody else wants to go, this Plan has already been tested, tried and true to be the only safe bug-out vestige and haven to go without being followed for the most part. This AM I walked some hiking trails into the mangroves, and some remote areas off the trails, and it was very peaceful with streams to kayak and fish and nature abound. I saw old Indian mounds where they used to throw their clams and oyster shells. So that is where I would go to Bug Out, and if needed keep moving more remotely, do it at night with a GPS if still working, to find my way back. lol or Compass and a Paper Map.

      • WhoWuddaSuckedIt says:

        When all the chiggers from the Northern states come south to you, I bet you change your tune.

        • eppe says:

          WWSI, GIVE THESE GUYS A BREAK, THEY ARE ON THE SAME TEAM…
          TRY to be more accomidating, and we all need to work together, if you know what I mean…..
          If not, screw yourself…

          • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

            Eppi – WWSI has some under lying anger and seems PO’d about everything. So lets reach out to him and find out what or why he is struggling with decent conversation. So WWSI – what is your situation and maybe we can help or give encouragement. For many we are already working our SHTF plans, due to unemployment, divorce, economic, health problems, PO’d about our Government failing us. Everything we spent working for in our lives is going Poof gone. Join the club.. etc. So WWSI what is it?

      • talon1776 says:

        Sorry wwti to have to disagree with your premise..but congregating in a mangrove is not suited for survivability..too many insects snakes and crocs make this environment unsuitable for anyone to want to be in for any length of time. The Seminoles did not have to contend with Agent Orange, Chemical Gas warfare, Napalm, Bio WMD’s and Cobra and Blackhawk gunships.

        STAND YOUR GROUND where ever you maybe, but don’t run from a fight against tyrrany. The NWO is counting on you to run. The only way to take down a bully…is to be one yourself…the only difference is…you have a high Moral cause.

        Live Free or Die
        Talon1776

        Better to die on my your feet…
        …than serve on your knees or run from a fight.

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

          @tallon – Sorry to disagree, but sometimes it is best to retreat and survive today, to fight another day on your watch, time, place and circumstances determined by you. The Gooberment looks forward to mowing down fools who think they are brave, standing up to their over whelming force surprise attacks. So were is your bug out location Motel-6?

  53. Warchild Dammit! says:

    I also learned the importance of coffee!

  54. Warchild Dammit! says:

    A interesting read on coffee:ht tps://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/joseph-mercola/6-reasons-to-love-coffee/ ,I put a space between the https to get on quicker(caffeine fired impatience!),enjoy with a cup of your favorite brew!

  55. This Texan Has Had Enough says:

    Be Informed-hoping all is well with you. I miss your keeping us informed about earthquakes and forecasts for them. If you posted about the 6.8 near Fukashima, I missed it.

  56. This Texan Has Had Enough says:

    Be Informed-hoping all is well with you. I miss your keeping us informed about earthquakes and forecasts for them. If you posted about the 6.8 near Fukashima, I missed it.

  57. Warchild Dammit! says:

    Tex,your computer is “double tapping” again!

  58. nlightenen2 says:

    Damit! HOLD YOUR GROUND!!! These fears are making you run when no one pursues you!!! I Have seen the courage of one make a hundred run! Do you think a gift of cowardice will be acceptalbe to the most high GOD? As for me, no matter where I make my stand, live or die, I hope a heart full of courage will be the gift I bring before my GOD!

    “The great irony of life is nobody gets out…………………………Alive.”

    “Without courage there is no virtue.”

    • talon1776 says:

      WITH MY WHOLE HEART..I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!

      STAND YOUR GROUND PATRIOTS…

      RUNNING AWAY MAKES YOU ARE TRAITOROUS COWARD.

      Satellite tracking will find you in your remote locations and you will be surrounded. If you stand your ground…when you are in the mix, chaos will be your advantage. Don’t be deluded to think they won’t locate your secret bungalows..you are making this too easy for them. I hope you know that if you attempt to break any ground for planting..it can be seen from space and you will be pin pointed and taken out.

      STAND YOUR GROUND PATRIOTS…IF YOU DIE…YOU DIED FOR A CAUSE GREATER THAN YOURSELVES…LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!!!

      Live Free or Die
      Talon1776

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

        OK Tallon there is plenty of Tryanny in Washington DC right now. Show us what you got and get in there and fight that Tyranny. What are you waiting for? Show us your Patriotism and Bravery on your feet now. Don’t hesitate.. I will watch you on MSM nightly news @ 6:30PM news, you Keyboard Warrior. BTW/ Tell me how they will track me on their satellite?

  59. This Texan Has Had Enough says:

    warchild-I told my computer to stop with the double posts and it replied “I’s sorry, Tex, I can’t do that!”
    I have no idea what I am doing to cause double posts.

    • Stewpedaso says:

      If you are running an older version of windows there is a new Malware infection (I believe created by the manufacturer). Ur mouse double clicks, it attempts to erase whole pages of text, and generally slows your machine down till you buy a new one more NSA friendly. So go out and buy 2 new ones. One with your real info where you watch kitty vids and play farmville on facebook and a second one where you are a Texan who has still had enough but only use that near free WiFi. Libraries, coffee shops, McyDees…;)

      • Warchild Dammit! says:

        Stew,how about just jumping ship,getting a clean/new hard drive and going linux?

      • This Texan Has Had Enough says:

        stewpodesto-I have a great computer guy who keeps me malware and trouble free by remote access and has for over 10 years on my various computers. He is on retainer. Will ask him now if I have a malware problem or another that causes double posts.

        • Archivist says:

          You don’t need to have someone else take care of your computer. Stay away from porn sites and don’t open email attachments that you aren’t specifically expecting. That will make the chances of your computer getting hit with something nasty go down to nearly zero.

          For common malware and tracking cookies that even reputable websites distribute, download a free copy of MalwareBytes, SpyBot, and AdAware. If you try to run MalwareBytes and a bug prevents it, pull the power cord on the computer. This will bomb it out so that it will come up to the black screen with 3 or 4 menu choices. Choose safe mode with networking. This will start Windows without allowing the bug to hinder you. It will also allow MalwareBytes to download updates from the internet. Run MalwareBytes and allow it to take care of all the problems it finds.

          Each of the other two programs will find problems that the others don’t.

          I have been online, either BBS’s, Compu$erve, or the internet for 30 years. I have only had a problem once in all that time, and MalwareBytes fixed it. I keep a copy in my pocket all the time so I can fix other computers.

          Also, keep all your program disks where you can find them and make backups of all your important files. That way, if the worst happens, you can just wipe the drive and reinstall everything.

          I can’t think of any computer problem that would cause double posts. Maybe your finger bounced on the mouse button. My wife sounds like she is double-clicking on everything. You might want to try this as a test. When you next make a comment, hit the tab key to highlight the Submit Comment button, then hit the Enter key. If you still get a double post, I would say it’s something out of your control to get fixed.

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      Best be careful online shopping unless you really love the product!Dare I ask,did you have some coffee today?Did you take for some reason the laptop to the range,laptop saw you double tapping and said”That’s for me!”?

      • This Texan Has Had Enough says:

        Plenty of coffee warchild. A must for me to have coffee. I did double tap a rattlesnake in the backyard today. Does that count?

        • Warchild Dammit! says:

          Hmmm….,seems I to have fallen victim to double posts.I say instead of taking personal responsibility for our actions we blame the site,Mac,someones not doing their job!As for double tapping the rattler,well,could the computer see ya’s thru the window?The bigger ? is,big enuff for boots?I hope you eat the snake and /or give to someone,big enuff for boots,well,will send ya’s a prepaid PO box and a large trash bag!

    • Warchild Dammit! says:

      I saw that,really gets a grip airborne could be a very big problem.On a side note,more were killed in Europe by the insanity after the plague then by the plague itself,feel unfortunately wouldn’t be much different today.

      • The Old Coach says:

        I dunno if you could call it insanity, but deaths did continue for a few year after the Plague, because the economy had been devastated by the loss of so many town people, who were the ones who managed trade and commerce, as well as making key commodities like leather goods, iron tools, etc.

        OTOH on the longer scale (decades) Europe experienced an economic boom, because so much capital was freed up. The lack of labor forced farmers to innovate, thereby increasing food production per worker. Also, lot of land fell into disuse, and when it was re-cleared a generation or two later it had rebounded from the earlier over-cultivation, and that also increased food supplies. More and better food, smaller population, what’s not to like? At least that’s what the archaeologists say.

  60. Warchild Dammit! says:

    That is a little strange,I guess you need though to be more careful then usual about ordering online unless you really love product!Dare I ask,have you had a good cup of joe yet?Did you take laptop out to the range for some reason,computer saw “double taps” and said”That’s for me!”?

  61. PO'd Patriot says:

    You want a five star bug out property? We’ll leave the light on for ya! LMAO!.

    • Archivist says:

      I stayed at a Motel 6 near Durham, NC years ago. There were holes in the carpet all the way through to the concrete. There were holes in the walls. The mattress felt like it had a hole in it. They wanted extra money to turn on the telephone and more extra money to turn on the black & white TV. And there was a biker gang having a cookout in the back parking lot.

      They can leave their light on for me, but I’ll never show up there again.

  62. Anonymous says:

    Well here’s a good change of pace!

    A sexually active middle aged woman informed her plastic surgeon that she wanted her vaginal lips reduced in size because, over the years they had become loose and floppy.
    Out of embarrassment, she insisted that the surgery be kept secret and, of course, the surgeon agreed.

    Awakening from the anaesthesia, she found 3 roses carefully placed beside her on the bed. Outraged, she immediately called in the surgeon. “I thought I specifically asked you not to tell anyone about my operation”!

    The surgeon told her he had carried out her wish for confidentiality and that the first rose was from him. “I felt so sad for you, because you went through this all by yourself.

    The second rose is from my nurse. She assisted me in the surgery and understood perfectly, as she had the same procedure done some time ago.”

    “And what about the third rose?” she asked.
    “That’s from a man in the burn unit, he wanted to thank you for his new ears.”

    Y’all Beware! Keep Smilin even in your BOL.

    • eppe says:

      Jesus, that was funny, are you sure you should not be the comedian here?
      I often wonder why someone else has not tried to take over in the comedy aspect????
      Please give yourself a moniker, just to be sure…

      • eppe says:

        Okay everone, here is one that all should enjoy…

        Y’all please excuse the vulgarity, but I think you’ll get the point.

        The Sierra Club and the U.S. Forest Service were presenting an alternative to Wyoming ranchers for controlling the coyote population. It seems that after years of the ranchers using the tried and true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predators, the tree-huggers had a “more humane” solution.

        What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive, the males would then be castrated and let loose again. Therefore, the population would be controlled. This was ACTUALLY proposed to the Wyoming Wool and Sheep Grower’s Association by the Sierra Club and the USFS.

        All of the ranchers thought about this amazing idea for a couple of minutes. Finally, an old boy in the back of the conference room stood up, tipped his hat back and said, “Son, I don’t think you understand our problem. Those coyotes ain’t fuckin’ our sheep – they’re eatin’ ’em!” You should have been there to hear the roar of laughter.

    • Babycatcher55 says:

      That was worthy of Eppe! Lol! Gotta show it to hubby, he’ll love it!

  63. Y'all Beware! says:

    Time for a change of pace!

    A sexually active middle aged woman informed her plastic surgeon that she wanted her vaginal lips reduced in size because, over the years they had become loose and floppy.
    Out of embarrassment, she insisted that the surgery be kept secret and, of course, the surgeon agreed.

    Awakening from the anaesthesia, she found 3 roses carefully placed beside her on the bed. Outraged, she immediately called in the surgeon. “I thought I specifically asked you not to tell anyone about my operation”!

    The surgeon told her he had carried out her wish for confidentiality and that the first rose was from him. “I felt so sad for you, because you went through this all by yourself.

    The second rose is from my nurse. She assisted me in the surgery and understood perfectly, as she had the same procedure done some time ago.”

    “And what about the third rose?” she asked.
    “That’s from a man in the burn unit, he wanted to thank you for his new ears.”

    Y’all Beware! Keep Smilin even at your BOL.

  64. Detroit sportsman says:

    I have been reading and studying on BOL locals, even have a nice place away from the city. But, after talking with my neighbors ,most of them are prepared or in the process of. So we as a group of home owners , Americans have made a decision that we will protect are home land.we will not run.but,will stay and fight .i think that if everyone stood up for what’s right we wouldn’t be in this position to have to even think about giving into any other outside influences.the powers that are trying to take over love it that they have people on the run at the thought of trouble, that makes it real easy on them.kind of like a big bully…..

    • Gonetoolong says:

      That sounds great, but the problems arise when what you feel is right doesn’t jive with what your neighbor feels is right. I have seen people (what I call “regular” people are quite a different animal than they were 20 years ago. Entitlement nation marches along. Lots of liberal ideology is surfacing in what used to be truly conservative communities, we shall see how all this turns out soon enough.

  65. good guy says:

    YOU SEE THAT THE U.S. MILITARY WANTS TO RETIRE THE 9MM
    THANK GOD THEY FINALLY ADMIT THAT IT TAKES MORE THEN 7 ROUNDS TO KILL SOMEONE.

    THEY ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING WITH MORE KNOCKDOWN POWER
    THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE .40 SW AND THE .45 CAL

    GO BACK TO THE OLD RELIABLE .45 Cal. ITS PROVEN ITS SELF YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WASTE MORE MONEY TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT WHICH ONE IS BEST.

  66. SCTV says:

    I wanted to give an update on the flooding in my area,
    There is still a lot of water in the fields, the military is being sent home.
    Something that bothered me was when I looked at where the flood waters had sat in ditches and fields.
    Wherever there was flood waters the plants are seeming to die after it goes away. Even in the creek beds and sloughs. i am seeing cat tails dying from this?
    Some areas the plants look grey like when they are sprayed with roundup and others the leaves are withering and falling off. Most of the crops look terrible and stunted. I do not know how good the crops will be.
    I had guessed by my self that %30 of the total crops were a write off. My sister who is friends with a crop insurance adjuster told me that they were talking and he has evaluated that his region has a %70 negative effected rate. That does not mean that there will only be %30 crop produced but that Only %30 should be normal yield. Just to put this in perspective, I know that most of the people on this site are American and do not know where I am talking about but in the Southeast corner of Saskatchewan and the Southern half of Manitoba the flooded areas are the size of many European countries.
    That is a lot of non production that we are talking about. Add this to California and the crops what is happening to beef, pork, poultry etc… Should internationally the crops not do too good or should they not get shipped due to $150+ oil then I should think that we are going to have a very hungry winter.

  67. Anonymous 300 says:

    Saskatchewan and Manitoba are located in Canada.
    Thank you for you information, SCTV.

  68. Kevin2 says:

    In theory one could live under a rock secluded from the world. A better choice would be to move to a State that has an abundant supply of both food and energy along with a low population relative to land mass with a predominate rural nature. Find solid employment within the food and energy sector that requires, “educated hands” (skill that cannot be outsourced).

    Along with the above be as self sufficient as reasonably possible.

    • Ugly says:

      You have perfectly described Fantasy Island….

      • Kevin2 says:

        The fracking states abundant in oil and natural gas tend to fit the above. The rural mindset is a plus too.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Educated hands include medical professionals to people that fix things or keep things running. The bottom line is you need a grounded field of work that by its very nature cannot be outsourced and you need to be a cog that is necessary for it to run. The more desirable the skill the better the income.

          If your job or employer can be outsourced sooner or later it will be.

          • clyde says:

            Ponca City / Blackwell Ok Diesel mechanic and truck driver

            Lots of water and good weather most of the time.

            Oil and gas out the ying yang and conservative political views

            nuke plant is north east of here in KS 250 miles and the wind doesn’t blow from that direction very often

  69. talon1776 says:

    I am invested in ERBB.. If it weren’t for market manipulators…it would be trading over a dollar…I am long in the stock…but I believe the market will implode before I see it come to its full price per share potential…but I do like American Green…it represent Freedom and Liberty in the pursuit of happiness..

    Live Free or Die
    Talon1776

  70. The Dude says:

    Northern Idaho would have to deal with radioactive fallout from a nuclear hit on Seattle. Much better to try the Klamath Falls/Medford area in Oregon.

  71. Horse'sass says:

    Speaking of bug out locations, how about answering a question about navigation? I understand that you should have hard copy maps and should have rehearsed getaways with alternate routes ahead of time,etc.

    Is the GPS guidance offered by cell phones derived from triangulation from the cell towers (a sort of pseudo GPS) or do the cell phones navigate by direct communication with the GPS satellites?

    In a SHTF situation, I figure the government would censor or flip the kill switch on GPS and cell communication, but that is a whole other topic.

    • WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

      @Horseass – In SHTF would avoid all Cell Phone related apps if possible. and take the battery out of the phone. With triangulation of towers they will find you as well during their FEMA Camp Roundup. I believe all cell phone data goes through the Cell towers. As they want to control all data transfer. I would get a separate handheld GPS device like a Garmin 550T that you can also add trail maps to, and there is No tracking of you. You can also set way points for Geo Caching. Also a backup paper map of your area of interest to mark fresh water holes etc. Its a great way to mark places out in the woods while stumbling around. Then easily find your way back. Works good for marking productive fishing holes while out in a boat. Pack a few sets of extra batteries in your BOB. Hope that helps.

  72. Socrates says:

    ***OFF TOPIC***

    My apologies for the off topic post but felt this important enough to get out there, quick.

    I have been doing more and more dot-connecting and believe I have finally finished the connection. Yes, I’m a bit slow in my old age apparently.

    Be informed (and others) have stated in several posts that we are living ‘in the end times’. I believe they are right. Here’ why:

    -So many countries are flat BROKE, including the U.S.
    -So many people all over the world are corrupt, evil, self-serving and devoid of any morals.
    -So many ‘wrongs’ are now ‘right’ and even the word ‘law’ seems to be nothing more than an oxymoron.
    -So many earthquakes, volcanoes, natural disasters of epic proportions.
    -So many people cannot even believe how bad it has gotten all over…and it keeps getting worse every day.

    You get the point by now, but consider this:

    The U.S. (and maybe all other countries) is headed for severe financial collapse, make no mistakes about it. It’s coming.

    What happens when the house of cards falls down all over the world besides chaos and death? Someone will try to put it all back together again. But if everyone is in the same sinking boat, what options remain?

    The action I’m talking about is the one world government. Nations are going to be desperate…all of them to regain some form of control and order. Enter the NWO. They will claim that with everyone ‘all in one basket’, we will all be the same, and no nation will be over others. This is the only thing I can think of as to why the U.S. is being intentionally and systematically broken down and destroyed.

    They are tearing the whole world apart at the seams in order to sew it all back together…as the new world order. It’s the only reason that makes sense of the madness anymore. I don’t agree with it mind you, but I do see this as the hand that is being played, right here, right now under the noses of the whole world.

    Unbelievable? Possibly. True? Also very possible.

  73. SCTV says:

    Off topic but was reading some of the older articles and their comments, since I do not get onto this site for days at a time and sometimes do not get to comment I want to add my thoughts on Mosin Nagants.
    I see several people repeatedly talking about buying or wanting one over the past several days.
    First of all the cosmoline in the rifles is not because they are new. Remember many were made many used in war and most were stockpiled after and put into armouries where they were sorted checked and cleaned every so often. YOU MUST INSPECT BEFORE YOU BUY.
    Check the ease of the bolt throw, and the rifling. Check for corrosion patches and repairs to the wood. These are not line items where everything is the same regardless what anyone tells you. I had one that free hand I could hit a ten inch plate at 300 yards everytime and it was exactly the same as another that I paid twice as much for that could not hit a pizza box at 50 yards.
    The Russians used the steel rods that come with them to clean so inspect the muzzle for out of round.
    Spend $50 and get the crown recessed or buy a t-square and a middle bastard file and level it out again. This will prevent gas bleed as the bullet leaves the barrel and improve your accuracy.
    ATI and others make a very cheap replacement stock. Change it. The full wood is over 70 years old. It can be warped and it affects the harmonics of the barrel.
    The ammo is corrosive generally, do not believe anybody who says that WD-40 will help. Keep a small bottle of windex. I soak 1 patch and run it down the barrel twice with the bolt closed and then twice with the bolt open and twirl it to clear the chamber. Then I run a dry patch through to dry it up and if I feel lazy I oil that patch and just reuse it once more. (I destroyed a rifle listening to the advice of a SOB at a shop in Virden Manitoba that told me to use WD-40. I washed yes washed it in WD-40 several times as he told me. After one week the barrel chamber and bolt were so furry that I had to get rid of it.)
    You can buy a Timney trigger for it, not a bad idea.
    And the bolt kits I would skip. Most all of them they are simply cut your old bolt handle and bolt on a cheap angle substitute.
    Years ago I had an M44 where I had the guy cut the bolt and weld on a Mauser98 handle that was awesome. Never should have got rid of it. But at the time there was no options for new sights and it shot too low. Now you can purchase lots of goodies on line or at a store.
    Like anything your rifle is what you make it. If someone is not used to using one they will get over the awkward handling very quickly because they will not have to unlearn their old habits. Any of us who would have problems because the rifle does not feel right probably own a different rifle that is our preferred go to gun anyways.
    Just wanted to add this in.

    • Also a word of caution on the WD-40 Issue and why you never NEVER! use it on guns

      Its a primer killer , if enough of it gets into your mags or clips (depending on rifle)or even the action it can creep into the primer and kill that round , no its not instantaneous , but it could be the 1 to 20 rounds that got some of it on them and you find out at a later time ..like when you NEED it to go boom the most , not fun when your getting shot AT!

      notice : your primers are pressed into a pocket in the back end of a shell casing (brass and steel alike) theres enough for that WD-40 to seep and creep into that round and kill it..definitely not worth the chance and very dangerous in a revolver , because if it didnt totally kill the primer but it popped enough to lodge that projectile in your barrel you will definitely find out the hard way when the next projectile runs into it in the barrel and blows your shit apart in your hand ..near your FACE

  74. Satori says:

    ya may not wanna watch this

    This Is What Happens When You Call the Cops

    http://youtu.be/IlY9C6pzxKc

  75. There is a great video on YouTube … I believe the host was Alex Jones and the name of the guy that he was interviewing escapes me at the moment. In any event the guy is the guru to picking locations that are the safest in the event the SHTF … and basically there are only a few of these locations left in the world.

    One of the locations he refers to is Northern Idaho. If I can find the link I will post it.

  76. no doubt in my mind.. were going to have to fight our way out

  77. WhoWuddaThunkIt says:

    MIA MAC ?? What happened to Mac? Was he:
    A. Abducted?
    B. Thrown in the Slammer?
    C. Finally Met that Cute Gal at the Breakfast Diner?
    D. Infiltrated a FEMA Camp for an inside scoop?

    Your Guess?

  78. slingshot says:

    On Drudge.

    ” Muslims Protesting in Paris.”

    Not enough of them in the states to start?

    “Children dying on the Rio Grand.”

    Turn them away or keep them coming. What to do. What to do. Oh in Chicago the Blacks are saying they are not being treated equally.

  79. surveyor says:

    For those stuck in jersey, don’t forget about the
    possibility of oyster creek as a target or accident
    site. Oldest Mark 1 plant in the country with lots
    of unreinforced spent fuel storage. what about an
    EMP for that, or all those folk in hot humid FLA?
    The best areas Ive found for BOL are central PA
    between coal country and the Alleghany forest, and
    western Maine. I was trying for the Adirondacks,
    but Gov Cumo says Im not welcome

  80. h t t p://news.yahoo.com/online-rants-rightwing-extremism-fuel-fears-for-us-cops-225012920.html

    like i have said , be careful who you associate with .. and when 1 of your blue army fucks up and you all “good ones” dont denounce it, or remove that individual to a prison cell rather then 2 weeks paid vacation! this is what happens..and I also said I didnt want to hear any crying over it.

    no disrespect Sgt Dale ..you know im right

    they all better understand the war with the people they are starting ..because it wont stop when they finally understand they were the ones who started it

    I only have proper respect..you fuck with me on that..your on your own

    • Cops use unnecessary force all the time. They hurt, maim and kill people in far greater quantities than 28. So this propaganda piece to rally the cause of police support is falling on deaf ears. Yes its sad, I’m sure there are several good cops out there. Problem is bad cops are in far greater abundance. Bilking the states of funds, while living out sick sadistic dominance fantasies. All the while hiding under the protection of their badge with the help of a skewed justice system. Fix the underlying justice system issues and maybe the reprisal wont be warranted.

      choices choices …better think fast

      • Mike says:

        Michael
        This is a Completely biased report. Why not report THE RISE IN POLICE SHOOTINGS OF UN-ARMED CITIZENS !! The new breed of fatigue-wearing “officers” shouting out “commands” to lawful citizens, SWAT-teaming the wrong houses, or the right ones over minor warrants is DISGRACEFUL.

        Most police are nothing more than high-school grad, low-IQ testosterone pumped, beer-drinking idiots who shave their body hair and cover their skin with ink because of their MANIFEST IMMATURITY.

        They “help” no one but themselves.

        These are the reasons why loyal Americans are FIGHTING BACK.

      • Billy Hill says:

        Agreed Tom. I know lots of LEOs and I like to believe they’re all good people. Unfortunately they’re not all good cops.

        I don’t see this kind of thing (brutality and hiding behind a badge) stopping or even slowing down until they start seeing their comrade’s heads on pikes or left in baskets on Police station doorsteps.

  81. matt says:

    I was spent about 10 years growing up off grid in North Idaho – If it wasn’t for the jobs situation I would love to live there or similar again

  82. Warchild Dammit! says:

    2 more posts and this article passes the “666” mark of the beast.Kidding aside this article though realize on weekend for much of time has generated a hell of a lot of comments and initiated a lot of info. exchange,whatever your views on article was a winner in that sense.

  83. Did this says:

    We moved to North Idaho 4 years ago – and this author has a few things right. Mainly regarding the areas with good and bad wells, and maybe the weather. What he failed to mention is that the cost of living is not cheap (like southern Idaho). The housing is higher than it should be, food is very expensive ($2/lb for apples, $1.89 for 8 oz of lemon juice that our kid pays $1.19 for in Montana), gas is expensive $4.59 for Supreme. Oh, and there is a state income tax as well as 6% sales tax and the tax is even on groceries. Oh, and don’t move here expecting to support a family because wages are horrible. Most new people coming in are either retired or have an online business. Oh, and the people are nice to your face, but not so interested in making friends. The locals like to stay distinct from new folks. And the locals work hard at keeping out any moderate size businesses that would actually provide jobs.

  84. roddy6667 says:

    I think the cold weather is a big negative. Living where you can die just from being outside makes life a lot of work. You must build and maintain warm homes, and spend a lot of time and labor to heat them for at least 5 months a year. These hours could be better spent. One short growing season also needlessly makes one’s life harder. Living in a warm climate is so much better.

  85. Anonymous says:

    Northern Idaho.. Not in this lifetime..lol.

  86. Rarefied Snotress says:

    Northern Idaho.. not in this lifetime!..lol.

  87. Woogie says:

    I once considered moving to Idaho, but I found out about the snowbound winters are harsher than it is here in N. minnesota,they have high cost of living, and short on abundant needed resources where there is plenty here. Everything is so much cheaper here including property costs and RE taxes,and wildlife and food sources abound here. I could not live anywhere else and afford to live there.

 

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