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    Spending Has Collapsed, the Economy Is Next

    Mac Slavo
    July 29th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (257)
    Read by 798 people

    We’ve been warning about it since the beginning of this crisis – that consumers are simply not interested in spending money they don’t have. In the first quarter of 2011 the government attempted to convince us that the economy was growing at a slow, but steady, rate of 1.8%. This was used as evidence the economic recovery had taken hold.

    President Obama and his administration specifically told us that a depression had been avoided:

    We can safely say that we are no longer facing the potential collapse of our financial system and we’ve avoided the depression many feared.

    President Barrack Obama – December 9, 2009

    But today’s growth domestic product revisions suggest otherwise.

    That 1.8% that convinced the average uninformed American economic activity had increased was nothing but a fabrication – a bold faced lie – and that’s official. The government revised that number to 0.4% – a significant difference. They were only off by about 75%.

    Today, the government released it’s second quarter GDP numbers, and as was predicted in many alternative media circles, it’s a clear indication that things are turning for the worse. Karl Denninger weighs in:

    Sorry guys, the clock has rung.  It’s not ringing any more, it has rung and the spring-powered alarm has run out.

    There is no recovery to speak of.

    Four years into this the policies of the government and Fed have failed.

    It gets worse:

    “The price index for gross domestic purchases, which measures prices paid by U.S. residents, increased 3.2 percent in the second quarter, compared with an increase of 4.0 percent in the first Excluding food and energy prices, the price index for gross domestic purchases increased 2.6 percent in the second quarter, compared with an increase of 2.4 percent in the first.”
    (source: US Dept. of Commerce)

    Your standard of living is being shredded.

    “Real personal consumption expenditures increased 0.1 percent in the second quarter, comparedwith an increase of 2.1 percent in the first.”
    (source: US Dept. of Commerce)

    Spending has effectively collapsed.

    This puts into stark relief the reality of the government deficit spending – it is doing nothing more than covering up an economic Depression, and the so-called “exit plan” – that private consumption, investment and borrowing will “take the baton back” is not working.

    Some analysts – those who are either in the tank for the government or are completely ignorant to the real facts – will claim that while the second quarter GDP is low, it’s still positive, which suggests there’s still growth.

    As we have pointed out in several reports previously, this is simply not the case once you factor in price inflation and monetary easing:

    Note that they have the CPI at 10%. If we use that to convert nominal GDP to actual GDP, then we get big negative economic growth. In other words, the reported GDP growth is just price increases.

    Source: Global GDP Growth Numbers are Fictitious, Fail to Account For Inflation

    If it wasn’t clear up until today, it should be now. Nothing the government tells us can be trusted. They will say anything and do anything to avoid panic. But despite their “best” efforts they cannot stop the inevitable. Rest assured, panic is coming.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 798 people
    Date: July 29th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    257 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Silver Bean says:

      Once again you’ve outdone yourself and in doing so you have done the public a great service. THANKS! And I will top off my preps because we are in the midst of the collapse, and it is evident bad things are coming to a disastrous end rather soon. I don’t like being negative, but I am a realist. Best to you and yours.

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      • Silver Bean, thanks for your comments. I don’t like being negative either — and try to be as positive as I can be. But, it is what it is…

        If you ask me, the fact that we are preparing ourselves is a pretty positive approach to a seemingly untenable negative situation.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          Being positive in spite of all the evidence right in front of you is stupidity.

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          • Goldenfoxx says:

            What’s there to be positive about? We have no assurance that any one of us will be here tomorrow. We know not what tomorrow brings, but we do know that sitting around thinking positive when the world is crumbling down around us gets you nothing–it will get your ass in the ringer for sure. We can take a look everywhere and see homeless people, unemployed people, and people living off the rest of us. They were certainly not prepared for what has been handed to them. IMHO being positive means that you act before it happens. Praying and doing nothing gets you nothing. JMHO.

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          • PO'dpatriot says:

            Good lord BD and GF, you mean to tell me there is nothing in your life that you are grateful for and of what you might receive. I’m not a righteous man. I curse, drink, and go into fits of rage on ocassion, but everything I’ve got comes from God. I could most definitely shoot my enemy who’s sitting across from my breakfast plate and then continue eating. Please keep your head up and be of good cheer. We’re getting ready, and some of us already are, to embark on long and rough ride. I for one, am still preparing physically and financially. I will continue to do so and leave the rest up to the Almighty. Ok…. I’ve spit those preacher’s teeth out now.

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          • Highlander says:

            I take it your not confident in yourself. I know that I will survive along with mine and anyone else who sticks it out and helps! I am ALWAYS positive, not from “stupidity” but from confidence in myself and what I know with a firm reliance on GOD!

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          • So, to all of that, I say, like the awesome Latino chick in the movie “Aliens”

            “LET’S ROCK!!!”

            One of the things my father taught me is that coping is really 90% of the battle. I may have an over abundance of zeal and an inappropriate lack of fear, but no piss-ant economic bump in the road is going to get me down.

            So, suck it up, people. We need clear thinkers and leaders. The last 20 years of so of America’s history has been fucked up by dishonest politicians and greedy bankers. They bought all the rope and they’ve just about hung themselves. It is our duty to help them and then guide the rest to be the America we are destined to be!

            We need gardeners. We need snipers. We need mechanics. We need engineers. We need leaders.

            …and whining and worrying about it all just keeps you from meeting your date with destiny.

            PO’d Patriot! I’m sure The Creator has no problem with your rough edges. Carry on! Wish you were my neighbor.

            Trim up those preps. We’re gonna need them!

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          • European American says:

            @ Bend Over

            “The world IS as you Are”.

            Now I know that one’s going to go right over your head. And it should, cause you’re always bending over. The message is for those of us who understand the mechanics of the world around us; who understand that half the battle takes place in the Mind. When one has a positive out look, one naturally and automatically draws that same positive outlook back. If one has a chip on their shoulder, as you seem to have, one draws that to oneself. I suspect you aren’t a very happy person. By most of what you say in your posts, you have issues; probably chronic health issues if not financial issues. Just because You do, doesn’t mean the rest, or the majority of us, does. I would think that someone who chronically “bends over” is probably doing it because they like to get reamed or they do it out of habit from bowing to their master most their life.

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          • Brian207 says:

            Being positive is the right thing because when it hits the fan all of us who are prepared will survive and rebuild and those sheeple who follow the main stream media will be out of the way. Those sheeple are just deadweight anyway…

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          • Lohkai says:

            Being positive is not stupidity. It is holding to hope, remaining defiant and preparing intelligently. To give those up of your own free will is to submit and break. We are as we choose. I choose to remain that which I am regardless of what may rail around or against me. I understand the depth and magnitude of the human spirit and that, no matter what may come, the best of it cannot be extinguished, only hidden at most… unless it is forfeit outright. I used to feel for people like you, until I accepted that you too are as you choose. Now, it’s just sad. Being negative because of all the evidence right in front of you… well, that would seem more the stupidity, because you’re letting it dictate what you are. I’ll bet your a lead weight in real life. You’re certainly one with that remark.

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          • dr e says:

            net
            you’re always on it
            wish you were our neighbor
            but…we got one just like you in the valley

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          • Plain Old American says:

            Ben, I think our fellow patriots gave you some needed motivation.

            I am prepping and as an older, single fella I face the battle of the “refuse to believe” everyday but I know that God is gonna show me a way to git ‘er done. He’s been doing that fer going on six decades. Why should I worry now?

            Beans and rice, bullets & bullion are necessary. So are copies of Blackstone’s Commentaries, Plato’s Republic & Joe Story’s exposition. You may not be the fella to rid the world of Marxism but you may be the guy that teaches self reliance or maybe you’ll just put the right band aid on the right wound that eventually saves mankind.

            Hang in there homey, We need ya.

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      • greaseman says:

        you make a good point. Doing preps isn’t about having a negative outlook on everything. it’s about being realistic. My wife always tells me,”your’re so negative’. She’s like a lot of people. She doesn’t want to hear anything negative. I told her there isn’t anything positive to talk about. So I just top off my preps, and silently go about my business.
        I think this collapse is going to surprise even those of us who expect it. hart times ahead.

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        • Stealth says:

          Damn Brother sounds just like my wife! I try and stay positive too but this is a burden we bear in silence for the most part. I just wish I could get her to see just a little of what is coming down the pipe.

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      • ranger says:

        Gold is the canary in the coal mine. Listen to what it’s telling you. Once this debt deal is finalized and an agreement for another one or two trillion public debt gets done, we’ll be that much closer to the endgame.

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    2. Granite Prepper says:

      BJs run this weekend. Thanks Mac for all your insight…..for those who are preparing it is a lifeline. For those who choose to remain ignorant……well it’s all white noise to them anyway!!

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    3. Lohkai says:

      It will be interesting to see just how lean this year’s Christmas shopping season will be. Our family has elected not to buy or exchange anything that isn’t edible or necessary. We simply cannot afford anything else. We cannot be alone. Yet, there will be a big buzz in the media and a big sit-back-and-wait on the hill in anticipation of extravagance. There will be those who just charge their way through the holidays, but I predict, in the end, there’s going to be disappointment.

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      • A lot might not see Christmas 2011

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        • egore says:

          +1 on that.
          We are toast.

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        • greaseman says:

          I think we wil have at least one false flag before Christmas. There is simply too much bad news going on, and the natives are getting restless. Plus, the misery is getting so bad, that even when the MSM chooses to ignore it, the alternative news picks up on the bad economic news and spreads it around. things can’t be hidden anymore.

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      • I agree. We are only giving useful things. Last year one of my sons presents was one of those newspaper brick makers from Lehmans. He loved it. We made a few and they work pretty good too. Used army wool blankets can be made pretty and hierloom with a hand quilted top. Triple thick crochet blankets and handdipped candles. It’s alot more fun if people don’t think of it as a “poor” christmas compared to the “standard.” Think of it as a “homestead” christmas. And, IMHO it makes it more memorable and cherished.

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        • GrannyB says:

          I like the way you described it! Gonna use the phrase “homestead Christmas” when I talk to my family about the holidays. IF we (the US) even makes it to the holidays!! Also like the ideas for the blankets!

          Your post is what having a positive attitude is all about! Kudos!

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        • Plain Old American says:

          That’s cool.

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      • Griz says:

        My family hasn’t had a nice christmas for some time. It’s been slow around here the last several years. But I will tell you one thing, if I would die tomorrow I wouldn’t be sad. Being born in 1955, raised on a farm, seeing life from outhouse as a kid to space race, to what I think was the greatest country that has ever been. I believe GOD put us here to help Israel when they needed help. Now that we are turning our backs on them were done. God gave us free will to let us make our own life so you reap what you sow. Elect a muslim this is the result. Same as the germans did in the thirties. If you only want to prep an fight after the fact this is what happens. I am not saying you shouldn’t prep but is also just as important to get the crooks out of Washington D.C. I hope it’s still possible? Prep but let’s also get together and save this country for future generations. Throw liers,crooks, lifers out. Hell if you can’t prove birth here, speak english, or call yourself a American go where it’s better. This is still the greatest nation but were not showing her much respect.

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        • greaseman says:

          Sadly, I think we are past the point of no return. We have to hit the bottom before we can rise again. We are free falling now. The bottom is getting close. The right chain of events should do it. When things get really bad, we’ll have world war. Not very pleasant to think about.

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        • jrsmac says:

          Griz, if America turns it’s back on Israel,
          “IT’S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

          http://www.pray4zion.org/WoewillbethedivideofJerusalem.html

          Woe… will be the “divide” of Jerusalem!

          Shalom Partner and Friend of Israel,

          “FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land.” (Joel 3:1-2; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)

          This verse is one of the most exciting in the entire Bible, because the first part of it has already been fulfilled, in our lifetime! God “reversed the captivity and restored the fortunes” of Judah and Jerusalem ~ Israel ~ on May 14, 1948! We can write this date in the margin of our Bibles on Joel 3:1 and mark it “Fulfilled.” Very few other prophecies have been so exactly fulfilled in modern history. Truly, God is consistently working in the life of Israel in this modern day and age!

          Israel is the spiritual capital of the world. This is what God calls the navel of the earth in the Old Testament. Why are all of the nations so concerned about Israel? Because it is God’s land and it would be, in a sense against Him if His plans were frustrated by human beings. And He will not let people frustrate His plan………….

          All the nations wanting to divide Israel and Jerusalem are touching prophecy, and are therefore placing their own nations in great peril. The Bible warns us that ~ “…he who touches Israel touches the apple of God’s eye!” Zechariah 2:8

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          • grayfoxgreen says:

            Just a few thoughts…”Even though Israel be numerous as the sand of the sea,it is the remnant that will be returned(saved)”Isa.10:22.Check Daniel 2:44,The secular State Of Israel is only one part of the nations crushed and treated as “chaff”(of no worth in God’s eyes).The Kingdom is “not made with human hands”(I.E. not of human creation).God’s Kingdom comes from Heaven,God’s Messiah is it’s ruler,not a “democratic” government set up by men.The Kingdom is a earth-wide system,not merely just in a middle-eastern strip of land.It is that Earth-Wide Kingdom that humans need to replace the mess we call countries and governments(including the current nation state called Israel we have now).
            make of these facts what you will,we are ALL gonna see who will survive when Messiah-King(David’s son as promised by God to David) starts to act.Meanwhile back at the homestead……
            Take this for what it worth to you
            LTR,
            GFG

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      • caryn says:

        in light of todays economic situation, while you are prepping for survival, it makes sense to me to also do a little xmas shopping with survival in mind. for instance, a really nice handmade quilt can be bought and put away for a special person in your life as a xmas gift. or handmade/homemade soaps, mittens, casserole carriers, hotwater bottle covers, all kinds of bags,,,,,jars of honey, jams and jelly. i do homemade/handmade products to sell at local festivals and flea markets and although some would say our prices are a little higher than the department stores/grocers, i can tell you this…handmade/homemade tastes a little better, lasts a lot longer, and make great family heirlooms and are original pieces of art.

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        • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

          Christmas is such a scam and has been for decades. Years ago, my very large family came up with the idea that the only presents given, had to be hand made by the giver and made for less than a dollar. Christmas now can be as extravagant as we want, so long as it’s under a dollar.
          It’s stress free, no-one freaks out at last minute shopping because there is none. We have a Christmas BBQ by the pool (Southern Hemisphere summer time) and have a party.
          I laugh at people these days who spend whatever money they have on present buying. Suckers!!! Duped by corporate marketing scams. Give all your money away to support big stores and corporates.

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          • caryn says:

            first of all, nomad guy, you missed my point…i was merely suggesting that if a person is worried about xmas, they could very easily include the gimmicks of the season in their daily preps..and they do not have to spend alot of money and they can do these things themselves if they have the know how. frankly, after months of possibly sacrificing a lifestyle we have taken for granted, a girlfriend or wife might just like and appreciate the small gift of a barrel of warmed rainwater and a homemade bar of lavender soap to soak in. even in hard times, it does a person good to have something nice or to be nice to someone. maybe, a jar of honey would be a soothing gift to yourself or another when you have a bad cough or sore throat. perhaps while you are getting ready for your xmas bbq after tshtf, someone in your crowd of friends around the pool has figured out how easy it is to make homemade beer, and just happened to plan ahead and canned up the best bbq sause ever tasted. just saying.

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      • Lohkai says:

        All I want for Christmas is canning supplies, canning supplies, canning supplies.
        I will be giving my family Lifestraws. Awesome little invention. If you need water, any stagnant puddle of mud will do. One straw = one year supply of water for one adult. An absolute must if you live on a fault line anyway.

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    4. Granny says:

      At the minimum, we are in for a radical drop in the standard of living. I suspect much worse. During the last depression, the demographics were much more condusive for peacefully surviving the times. Today, not so much.

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      • I agree. today people are spoiled, arrogant and entitled. When I called to d/c the cable, the lady actually told me she would feed her kids Ramen before she d/c her cable and phone. Yikes. I was tempted to say, “Well, either way you will be, but way to put dancing with the stars before your growing children!” Priorities are soooooooo wrong these days.

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      • greaseman says:

        A radical drop for sure. In the 30′s, the majority of the people made their living on farms, or agricultural related. these people actually knew how to do something, and were not dependant on anyone. Many people were so poor, and lived in their own world, that till they were told, didn’t know they were in a nation wide depression. it was life as usual for them.
        if you look back at picture records of the 30′s, taken by goverment hired photographers, the pictures from the Appalachians are third world in nature. these were some poor people, but they were hardscrabble survivors, that knew how to get by. Our poor today only know which agency to call when their entitlement doesn’t come in time. They can’t feed, clothe, or make a decision on on their own without a government official telling them what to do. Multiply that by millions, and you have several years of extreme misery.
        In a somewhat worst case scenerio, in the months following a total collapse of our economic system, expect millions to die from starvation. You think that impossible?? you better think again. Just look at how the government handled katrina. When has the government ever managed anything well? Never. I predict the one thing that the government will be good at in the future, is herding people to FEMA camps. Crowd control. they have been practicing, and they are ready.
        So learn to get by on your own, or die. it’s that simple.

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    5. Anyone concerned the refusal to raise the debt ceiling will in fact be the catalyst fir SHTF sooner then later. I think it’s going to enable an attempt at a socialist dictatorship for one partying golfer!

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      • Granite Prepper says:

        Yes, but then I’ve been telling everyone that’ll listen since 2007 this guy isn’t as dumb or ill-informed as everyone thinks. He’s just waiting for the right moment to take the wraps off a fascist utopia that’ll make Italy and Spain of the 20′s and 30′s look like disneyland!!

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Here’s a great article to confirm your dictator suspicions.

        http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/obama-following-in-hitlers-footsteps/

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        • Montana Mike says:

          MR B. Your link should be a must read for all those who gather to this site. After observing POTUS Obama for the last 2.5 years, he is just a puppet being manipulated by the world’s powerful elites. It is not far fetched to see a finacial collapse that evolves into a suspension of the 2012 elections and the rollout of NORTHCOM forces. Do not say it can’t happen here! MT MIKE

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          • greaseman says:

            what you are hinting at gets more and more plausible with each passing day. I for one don’t think we will have 2012 elections. I believe soon, we will have a false flag event, and that will launch us into martial law, then, an announcement of the cancelling of elections. Folks, some scenerio of this ilk is on the way. get ready, and don’t be surprised when it happens.

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      • Jim-you are one of a growing number of people in my circle who anticipate a dictatorship.

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        • PO'dpatriot says:

          Add one more

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          • I’d vote for a break up of the U.S.A. into a conservative, constitution loving block of states including Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana. Then a liberal, illegal alien/Mexican dominated left (west) coast, and a liberal east coast.

            The socialist philosophy of the east and west coast liberal block of states will cause those states to descend into catastrophic and terminal decline.

            This won’t happen anytime soon; give it 20 years!

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          • Durango Kidd says:

            T: I’ll post the link again in case you missed it. Here is the future of America:

            http://shtfearthchanges.blogspot.com/p/washington.html

            We are not giving ONE fucking inch of American ground to the ILLEGALS. Once a Patriot is elected as POTUS the ILLEGALS will be shit-canned back to Mexico.

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          • Stealth says:

            Whoa there Nelly don’t leave Florida to the wolves dammit! We just lower Alabama at heart.

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        • The worst part would be FOX joining MSNbC and the rest in justifying his take over. I can see his 5 executive orders:

          1). Suspending elections until we are past this crisis, but they will resume ( when we can make them go like Iraqs use too),

          2). We are not banning or confiscating guns, but we are going to stop the legal trade of guns and ammo for safety sake. The buying or selling of firearms, ammunition or any component of either is forbidden by fed law,

          3). Silver and gold are now set at 50 and 2,000 dollars per ounce. They may not be sold or traded for more. Individuals may sell to their government at that rate. Businesses holding these assets are required to sell them to the government now so we may use them on the world market.

          4). Oil companies to retailers will determine how to divide $5 per gallon and no more for gas and diesel. Charging more will be a felony for all involved.

          5). Martial Law is in effect nationwide.

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    6. A little off course here, but I really wanted some of you others on here to see this.
      America’s War on Christianity
      http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/07/11/us-order-to-shutdown-millions-of-christian-websites-shocks-world/

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      • Francis Le Oublious says:

        That is a good thing even if you are a good Christian. Part of the reason we are in this mess is due to fallicious information being available and PROTECTED.

        The truth is the truth, it is not a matter of personal taste or opinion, A great deal of these sites are riddled with trash info whether they are religious, or political, or consumer, or gardening.

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        • William says:

          It doesn’t matter what the content is. It’s my personal responsibility to validate the information and not just base my opinion on one site. We can remove every website that doesn’t provide factual info. Who would determine what the true info is, the government? Yeah right – just like they do now.

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          • Francis Le Oublious says:

            That is a fantastic question that requires some time to answer.

            The short of it is a computer program that eliminates human error by constantly checking its database for nonsense that does fit with our known and accepted truths.

            Also, thank you for such an smart answer “It is my personal responsibility to validate the information.”

            The problem is that 90% OF HUMANS REFUSE TO DO JUST THAT!

            Traditional governemnt is all we have known, but there are a few of us out working hard to eliminate the human ‘feelings’ from our information and governments. The position we are in is known as between a rock and a hard place; running short on time to achieve this, and energy to fuel it.

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          • Francis Le Oublious says:

            That was supposed to say, “that does NOT fit with our known and accepted truths.”

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          • Francis Le Oublioux says:

            Huh, no interest in such an idea? Bet this will spark the talk.

            “Bet you all are religious huh?”

            That is exactly what I thought.

            No room in the world for a useful tool if it denies the Bible from the database based on the FACT that it is mostly nonsense.

            But it still has a place!! In the history department.

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      • SmokyMtnLady says:

        Oh my Word!! This is very frightening!! I’m posting this on FB!! Thx, BJ!

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        • Ben Dover says:

          Sadly, that site carries more weight.

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          • SmokyMtnLady says:

            No sadly, Ben, not ONE of my friends even commented on it!! They never do!! Anything even slightly political they do not comment on! But let me put a video on of a laughing baby, or a dog chasing it’s tail, and I get get all kinds of comments!! My friends have their heads buried so far in the sand it’s sad! That’s why I don’t get on FB that much…would rather be on sites like this one, educating myself!

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        • NunJoBizness says:

          SML – I have the same issue with FaceButt. All my friends comment on is stupid tv shows or they post music videos. I even have one friend (from high school back in the 80′s) who CONSTANTLY posts self portraits of herself, talks about what color to dye her hair, etc. Makes me wanna puke.

          Another of my friends married an EXTREMELY rich older man and she likes to post pics of her 4,000 square foot mansion or the new horse she just got! Puke!

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    7. James says:

      Thanks Mac, When will main street realize what has happened to them?? The corporatists and central banks have looted all that there is leaving the poor and middle class with nothing!!
      City, State, Federal pensions are all based on paper numbers. Well,paper numbers say that we are broke!!
      The garbage that is going on in Washington about reducing spending by 2trillion over ten years works out to 200 billion a year. Well correct me if I’m wrong but, isn’t the deficet 1.5 trillion? So that would still leave us with a 1.3 T bill to finance. What a bunch of garbage!!
      What idiot would lend us anything?
      I think that this is totally out of control and nothing can stop the train now. Anybody who has not done any preps is sooooo screwed. Even if you have prepped, unless you are young the times are going to be very challenging.
      I thought that import tariffs would help and they still may,but,as fast as this depression is coming now I don’t see much hope.Very Concerned/scared James

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      • greaseman says:

        pretty much no one is buying our debt now. The FED buys our own debt. Moving money from one pocket to the other. And you are also right about the left over debt after the budget savings. There is no mathmatical way possible to pay back the debt, OR interest on the debt. That’s why all this bs going on in DC , doesn’t ammount to a hill of beans.
        Folks, get this straight—we are screwed, it’s over, and I mean over. Our past way of life will never be the same again for a long time, possibly never again in our lifetime. The only way things will change is with total collapse, and then revolution. One scenerio or another is in the cards. we’ll have to see how things play out.

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    8. MadMarkie says:

      Even if the ‘Congress-Critters’ & Senatorial-Sapsuckers’ in the District of Criminals were to work out a last-minute agreement to raise the ‘so-called’ debt ceiling….. just exactly where would this leave us? In doing so, they would have just kicked-the-financial-can of our poor country a bit further down the road and at most delayed the inevitable for a bit longer. I am unable to wrap my mind around the amount of 14 trillion $, let alone imagine a way that they will ever be able to pay this off. We’re not just broke, we’re bankrupt as a country; we just haven’t filed the papers yet.

      Like Silver Bean (above), my family and I will be topping off our final preps this weekend, filling the gas cans and, perhaps most important of all, loading all the magazines.

      My wife and I both rely HEAVILY on our Social Security Checks in order to pay our monthly bills and put food on the table. That amounts to over 75% of our monthly income.

      Social Security checks come out every Wednesday of the month. My wife’s direct deposit shows up on the second Wednesday of the month and mine shows up on the third Wednesday. The day that either of our checks fail to show up on time we are seriously screwed. That’s also the day that ALL bets are off.

      God Bless & good luck to all, please keep your family close at hand where you can take care of the. Perhaps we’ll see each other in ‘Barter-Town’ some day.

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      • MM good luck. I hope your social security checks (or deposits as it may be) are there for you this coming month of August, but who knows. I also hope they are worth the same amount, but that I doubt sincerely. A failure to accept the Republican demands on the part of the Democrats just boggles my mind, but it looks like that is the current course of things. I do agree that “passage” is just kicking a can down the road. That said I don’t mind seeing the inevitable put off.

        Imagine that OPEC announced this weekend it would only accept gold/silver or food for oil. No more dollars? Imagine some media sources caught Russia and Brazil (huge holders of our debt) pawning it off for Gold at hawking low rate. I dare say that Monday would be a historic (and ugly) day in America.

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      • MIVidaLoca says:

        God bless you as well. My parents both receive social security and also rely on it (why would they not? It was supposed to be there for them when they retired…at least that’s what they were told years ago)

        Thank goodness we managed to get a house with some acreage..we may have a blended family in one house very soon. I can’t wait to start my garden and get me some chickens!

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      • I think the SS checks are sent by initial of last name—H on the third wednesday..at least that’s what I was told last year.
        Dh’s check has been a gift since last July–other than 3 checks(self-employed dh gets needy sometimes)I have used every last dime for preps….Berkey, wood/coal burning stove, food, medical supplies, gas tanks/gas, generator, cotton clothes, even dishtowels/bathtowels/washcloths!!!!
        We have treated it like we didn’t have it and used it for nothing but preps.

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        • caryn says:

          i am alot like you jj-hubby gets both military retirement and social security…we live off of one and prepare and save with the other. without either one we might have a problem but we could survive for awhile.

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    9. MIVidaLoca says:

      We wanted to sell our house in the city and then buy a home in the country with acreage. We actually managed to do both but now we have a higher mortgage payment! (not by much but still higher)

      You can’t win, can you?

      Good wishes to all of you out there – stay safe and for those who have not begun to prep, better late than never.

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    10. Bloodyfellow says:

      SHOCKING! Uncanny 1958 Prediction coming true; America’s Destruction from Inside.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqXVYTKKMec&feature=related

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    11. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      We are debt free except our house. We are current on it and have never missed a payment. We have perfect credit.

      My spouse says we should strategically default and get out of it and rent or buy something smaller & reasonable. Or better yet, build a small house on our bug out property where we just have a tiny 375 sq ft cabin. I keep holding on because I believe it’s not right to back out on a commitment.

      However, with the news of late, I really fear for our future. I fear for our standard of living. Each $3000 mortgage payment could go for something else – preps, gold, silver for example.

      Thoughts on this? Anyone? I can’t be the only one in this situation.

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Oh, and there’s no way we could sell the house – there are 5 in our small neighborhood on the market right now. No homes in our area in our price range are selling. Oddly, in 2006, 2007, they would have sold in about 3 days…….

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        • anonymous says:

          What % of equity?

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          Mr B: Your spouse may be right but there are a lot of factors to consider first, if you can make the payment now, as you are doing.

          Do you have adequate other income to pursue preps? What recourse does the bank have if you default according to the laws of the State in which you live? Can they pursue other assets in a default? If they can then you need to protect those other assets with an anonymous LLC in Nevada or Wyoming.

          You have pretty good income if you are making a $3k mortgage payment. Is that salary and wages that could be garnished by the bank? Or is it retirement income? Retirement income can disappear in a real crash and bankruptcy by your employing companies. Income can disappear the same way, and it matters what kind of work you and your spouse do and what the outlook for your employers might be.

          Bankruptcy in a strategic default is not necessary, but it could extend your case while you live in the house without payments, and bankruptcy could extend your stay in the house another year or so. Then you could cancel bankruptcy and just default, while pocketing $36k or more for the period of time that you are in the house but not making payments.

          I don’t advocate a strategic default but it could be an option you could pursue once all the options and alternatives are thought through. I mean if you are going to default and stick it to the bank, you better have a plan to protect your other assets and income from them, and a life plan upon which you and your wife agree.

          Good luck.

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        • caryn says:

          how about renting or sharing with someone you can get along with? how about doing something with that home you hate to default on that is productive like a backyard garden and some chickens and laying hens. how about a small bed and breakfast business… get your creative brain juices flowing and do something with what you have to help pay the way.

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      • Blutarsky,

        I think you are looking at the “committment” all wrong. You committed to make the payments OR give up the subject of the agreement and take the hit to your credit (with all that entails.)

        Mortgages are not suicide pacts that you have to ride into the ground, giving them your last dollar to be honorable. You have to make payments til you cannot or choose not to. You have to accept the consequences of both actions. You DO NOT HAVE TO keep making payments for honor.

        Try looking at things in reverse. If the market was booming and you lost your job and then lost the house in an up market, would anyone say that the bank was not entitled to the benefit of the bargain? In every contract both sides assume they are making the better deal. Only one is right. So long as both parties abide by the contract, there is nothing immoral or dishonorable.

        If you really want to default and have considered all aspects (credit score, future credit needs, 1st, 2nd mortgage and the ramifications of both.) I would say you are about out of time to choose.

        “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

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        • Ben Dover says:

          I hate and completely distrust Obummer, but do not believe him to be stupid, he LIKES things this way.

          He truly believes in socialism, but with HIM running the show. Socialist/communist leaders are never as poor as the shithole countries they rule.

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          • Anonymous says:

            You’re giving him too much credit. He is not in charge. There are bigger powers at play behind the scenes. But they will never reveal themselves. It is so much more to their liking to see all the drama between the parties.

            Divide and conquer, remember?

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        • Ben Dover says:

          There is nothing immoral about “strategic default”. The contract spells out what happens if you pay, and what happens if you don’t. The banksters are just mad that people are deciding that giving back the house makes more sense for them, and perpetual debt is not so attractive anymore.

          Just as in “War Games”, sometimes the only winning move is to refuse to play.

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        • Fred Galt,
          I agree with you about just handing the keys back to the bank. As a former Banker, I can almost guarantee you the mortgage lender will ding your credit, but will NOT pursue you for a deficiency on the balance owed, after selling the house. They have too many other people in the same shape to pursue them with judgements, wage garnishments, etc.

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          • Lohkai says:

            True. They’re in the banking business, not the real estate business. All these strategic defaults just clutter their system and devour resources since they’re not equipped to be saddled with all these physical properties. And it’s become so common that it now has a name: key-mail – when the buyer mails them the keys in lieu of the payment.

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      • drillerman09 says:

        Started the stagegic default myself. Its been three months since I have made a payment. Went to Bank of America 3 months ago to refinance my loan. Have perfect credit (or had)……They would not touch the loan because they said we were “under water”. I refuse to pay intrest on a loan that my own lender won’t touch. If they won’t touch it why should I??? I know the whole “you signed shit”, but screw them, they don’t care about me and my family. I can actually rent a house for about 1/2 my payment, or actually move in with some family and we can all save some money. The way I see it, its about survival at this point. Hell, I have more money saved now than I have had in a long time. Good Luck in what ever decsion you make.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          You did sign a contract, and seem to be willing to bear the consequences of default.

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          • grayfoxgreen says:

            Just remember that in business(even banking)contracts are broken on a regular basis if it’s deemed necessary for the company’s health.The American Mortgage Bankers Association reneged on the mortgage they took out to buy the office they were in.It was felt necessary for the financial health of the Association to “walk away” from THEIR MORTGAGE and go elsewhere.As it was once said:”What’s good for the goose is sauce for the gander”.
            When they go after you bring that up in court and see what happens.That assumes that they even have the docs to support their claims of being the holder of the mortgage in the first place(VERY unlikely,given the fraud in todays housing market.
            Just sayin’
            GFG

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      • AZ Ready says:

        OUCH, $3000 a month!!! I thought mine was high at $1293 including taxes and insurance.

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      • 36 months ago I retired with almost no debt and perfect credit. Our home though was burried deep. We borrowed $180k against it to pay off taxes on the land my dad left me – otherwise we’d have had to sell the land. I waited until the mortgage was done to retire to make qualifying easier. We paid off the inheritance tax and kept Dad’s land in the family.

        When I say I’m retired its because I can sustain ourselves from now to the end as is. I can’t take my pension, doubt for social security, and can’t even really touch my retirement IRA. I’m 46 and wanted to go back to work, but that hasn’t been happening. My wife bless her works full time and we more then get by. But last fall we decided paying $300k on a $105k home wasn’t going to be too smart. We bought a new home for $139k and nearly paid it off and then let the buried home go. Now our credit is ruined but I guess we deserve that and I still feel like I wasn’t right to make good on my obligations – it bugs me.

        For SHTF I owe less then a car payment on my house, and Dad’s land in Nevada (substantial land) is free and clear.

        If you let your $3k a month house go then do something smart first – buy something else in this down market. Buy something with close to no payment. That is what I did, and it still hurts but I still think it was the smart move (just not the most morale).

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      • James says:

        It all depends what state you are in. A few states are what is called non-recourse.What that means is the bank can not come after you for the difference between loan and final sale. If you have a second, they can come after you for that.
        If you are seriouly underwater and you have private mortgage insurance or live in a non-recource state it doesn’t make financial sense to throw more “good” money after bad. The market is not going to come back for years if ever. James

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      • SmokyMtnLady says:

        Mr. B….I tried to talk the hubs into doing that very same thing because I truly believe we are going into a situation that we have NEVER been in before! He believes it also but it’s hard for him to walk away from a commitment he made, and I respect him for that…he did get us refinanced and saved us over 400.00 a mo. which is really great, but when we see things really going south, we have both agreed to stop making the mortgage payments and use the money for last minute supplies.
        I’d go for it if I were you, especially considering the payment! Let ‘em have the house! Buy some gold and when it’s at 8,000.00 an ounce, pay cash for a foreclosure in the country!

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      • MadMarkie says:

        Yo Mr. B -

        You may want to spend the $100 or so that it costs for an hour of a good Real Estate Attorney to go over all of the legal ramifications of walking on your mortgage. We ‘walked’ on an FHA Mortgage in the mid 80s without anyone coming after us for anything and without having to file bankruptcy. If it’s a bank loan or VA, then it would have been a different story.

        My understanding is that the IRS now wants to call the difference between what you currently owe on your mortgage and what the lender eventually sells the house for as “earned income” and wants you to pay income tax on that amount. Find out exactly what you’re looking at up front before you do anything.

        Good luck.

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      • PO'dpatriot says:

        There will be time enough to walk away. I wouldn’t pull the pin just yet.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        That is quite a large payment, but as far as the cabin,375 sq. ft. is reasonably easy to heat with a wood stove, and more room than people have in many countries. The majority of space in these 6000 sq.ft. Mcmansions will end up largely uninhabited, at least during heating season.

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      • GrannyB says:

        Fully agree!! Would really like to be able to use all of my Aug bill pmts to finish off my final preps. Guess the next few days will tell…

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Thank you for all the advice & support. I am absolutely stunned that any of us even has to think this way. Our wages more than support the monthly payment because we own our own fairly successful small business — but its hard to say if it will stay that way. That is my fear.

        If we pursue this we will definitely buy a cheap house or build a house on the 30 acres that we own before doing it (while we still have good credit).

        We would certainly try selling it before we just leave it. Sometimes the right buyer show up & ours has a few advantages over some of the others in our neighborhood. Strategically defaulting would be plan B.

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        • Anonymous says:

          Short term room lease to nice people while in transition? Look at ALL options.

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        • Lohkai says:

          Whatever happened to the good old barn-raising type of thing? There was a time, you know, when we didn’t have the luxury of a home builder in every county. Houses were the result of individual labor and community effort.

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          • caryn says:

            got that right. we trade standing trees that folks want to cut down for firewood for other services that we are too old or too decrepid to du for ourselves. and we trade fresh picked fruit and other things as well. it works too if you have the right kind of friends, neighbors and community. got myself a good metal roof, a back porch and the house painted by trading goods and services. working on a new back door next.

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      • Stealth says:

        “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son.”

        It is readily apparent you are none of these things.

        My wife and I are in the exact same boat my brother. She lost her job and we got behind, the bank said they couldn’t help unless we were 90 days late. We got later then they told us not to pay our mortgage even if we could now cause that would screw up the “modification” 8 months later we got papers in the mail that were nothing like what we agreed upon and then we found out our mod rep had quit and we had to do it again…and again etc..

        Pardon my army gutter mouth “Fuck um.” I’m not playing their game anymore. They are playing by my rules now. I will string this mother out for years and in the mean time build a new home mortgage free. This house is our only debt and we will do what’s best for my family not Bank of Amerika…dicks.

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    12. Bloodyfellow says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAIX74HXguw&feature=related

      Prepare for Violent Revolution in America

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    13. Bloodyfellow says:

      What will be the spark that starts the revolution in America?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c84STUMLWw&NR=1

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    14. Crap. I was hoping I’d have alittle more time. Btw…the hospitals around here are laying off 6% of it’s workforce. (don’t get sick people) For it to hit the hospitals tells you how dire this is. The only time I know of that hospitals laid people off was…you guessed it…the Great Depression. Entire hospitals closed. Yes, I know that there were small lay offs during the tech bust of 87(?) but those people were called back in a decent amount of time. This local mega health organization has made it clear that they won’t be calling back any time soon, AND this is only the first round. Gotta go grab more multivits and chicken broth.

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      • SmokyMtnLady says:

        What? NO WAY!! You HAVE to have that wrong!! I have a bro in law who says that hospital jobs are the safest jobs around!! That his job in the hospital is safe!!! And he knows EVERYTHING No proof of what he says…but he’s right and I’m wrong for saying that the economy is gonna crash…oh, and Gerald Celente is wrong, and Arthur Laffer is wrong and Robert Weidemer author of Aftershock is wrong…so on and so on….blah, blah, blah!!!! He offers NO proof that HE is right…just a stubbornness that one day soon is gonna bite him in the butt!! Sorry for the rant… guess I’m still a little angry that he’s now convinced my sister that he is right!

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      • It’s not looking good then for the ER doc who just sent me a bill for $736 for writing me a prescription for pain when I broke my 3 toes—I hopped into ER and 2 hours later, I hopped out of ER.
        He never touched me…think he’ll settle for about $5 a month??

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        • SmokyMtnLady says:

          that much, JJ? lol!!

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          • I know, generous, right! I think by law they have to take 5 dollars a month. That’s the last I heard. Check it though. And hospital jobs are relatively safe. But not bullet proof. It shows the extent of the pain. Even with this “trimming of the fat” it strains essential staff and fills the hospital with new (inexperienced) people because they are cheaper than the 20 yr vets.(Smokymtnlady) I’m sorry your family isnt listening. I know first hand, its hard to see the train coming and have family standing firmly in the middle of the tracks calling YOU crazy. Frustrating.

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        • Lohkai says:

          Geez, what a rip! They are ever proud of their ability to write illegibly. Seems $50 worth of whiskey and a three-day bender would’ve been just as effective. But, any judge in the country recognizes “good faith effort”. Even the IRS does. They may bitch and moan at a monthly payment, but it’s just that – bitching and moaning.

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        • Plain Old American says:

          Well I have been in for three major surgeries and about five angioplasty with intervention. The least expensive was the last time in the cath lab…less than 30 grand for my seven hours. You really do not want to have a personal relationship with a vascular surgeon if you can avoid it.

          I have to say though that I believe that I am going to keep my leg. For that I pay the hospital at least $100 per month and $50 to $100 for the surgeon. Thankfully I had insurance that picked up the bulk of the costs.

          If there is any bill that I will continue to pay as long as I can it will be my doc’s. The reality in my life is that I need him.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        MLF: 6%? Thats just to cull the herd of the more expensive nurses and hire new ones for cheap. Probably ones who have not been around long enough to be vested in the pension fund so that the money paid in, increases the amount available for management.

        Just modern management practice as encouraged and exampled by Wall Street. God, I will be glad when the masses in NYC skin those bastards ALIVE!

        Hope there is live video of the event. They did this to US and they deserve it.

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    15. manos says:

      Spending. That was their biggest mistake (or should i say anxiety?).
      They tried to build an economy and a society based on spending.
      And now that they screwed our income, spending has reached the bottom.
      And it will take many years to start climbing again, if ever.
      But this is a basic question in street economics 101.
      If you fuck households, if you downsize people, if you increase unemployment, and if you confiscate houses, WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO BUY THE CRAP YOU PRODUCE?

      Sorry for the shout.

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      • As I told dh—the corporate heads, CEOs, share holders of BIG corporations—don’t care—they have made billions..I mean the BIG whigs running this nation, the employers of the thousands of lobbyists controlling congress.
        They have purchased homes in other countries and when the real SHTF, they are OUT OF HERE.

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    16. AZ Ready says:

      I need until August 10th. My wife is in Ukraine right now and if the SHTF before that, it will be extremely difficult to get her home. Sh.t!

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      • “get her home” or join her there? I think being there might be better. People are far more use to living poor there and won’t be as radically impacted as our “poor” here…..I mean what happens when those smart phones die and they can’t text their neighbor 3 doors down….God knows they can’t walk there.

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        • AZ Ready says:

          Jim, although they are use to living poor, (her mom lives on a $100 month) I wouldn’t want to live there. Old Soviet Union does not appeal to me. Have been there several times and it sucks big time. I will take my chances here. Besides, I like owning guns and couldn’t there, well legally!!!

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        You got plenty of time AZ Ready. No collapse. Just more of the same.

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        • AZ Ready says:

          DK, yeah, I know, just venting, but it does stick in the back of my mind when she takes these trips to see family during these trying times. Don’t won’t to get caught off guard, thats all.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        Good luck. My wife is Ukrainian. She finished school at about the time the USSR was imploding. Hope the FUSA can finish it’s breakup/implosion before my kids grow up.

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        • AZ Ready says:

          Ben, mine too. Have you been to Ukraine? I traveled Europe back in the 70′s and have seen the border between east and west back then. Now actually traveling to an old Soviet controled country, especially one that has endured the history of Russian conquest through the centuries is quite an eye opener. Funny thing is, they are just people like you and I. Not the BS many believe.

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          • Ben Dover says:

            Been more than once (not during USSR days). Poor people there are REALLY poor. My wife says that most people always liked Americans, and most people identified with their individual country, not USSR. I was impressed at how much milage they got out of so few resources.

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          • AZ Ready says:

            Well Ben, I have said it before here. We have one advantage over many others. Our wives are used to living with virtually nothing so when the SHTF, they will be great at scraping by and can teach us much.

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    17. SoapDish says:

      When you give a greedy, evil, leeching cabal a credit card, that does not produce one thing of worth, except debt and wars, what do you think is going to happen? Theres a war brewing all across the globe and the cataylist is TPTB will have it their way or this is what happens. I just wonder how much longer they’ll keep attempting to blow smoke up the sheeps asses?

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    18. Ban together with nieghbors and start a community garden and water harvesting learn more at http://www.bereadytosurvive.com...

      Protecting you most valuable assests… food and water with friends and family will be worth it.

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    19. Ban together with nieghbors and start a community garden and water harvesting learn more at http://www.bereadytosurvive.com

      Protecting you most valuable assests… food and water with friends and family will be worth it.

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    20. Sam says:

      Timely article. After over 13 years in business, today, I had to lay someone off for the first time ever. A major customer is cutting back due to the budget impasse, but also because every proposal to fix it has major cutbacks in defense spending. This persons employment was directly tied to this customer; so there is no choice. I have made several phone calls and may be able to bring him back or get him placed with another company; but I had no choice. I have fired people, ( always well deserved ); people have left on a voluntary basis ( only a couple ); but I’ve never had to lay anyone off. I have tears in my eyes as I type..

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      • AZ Ready says:

        Understand Sam! Had 14 employees plus me 2 years ago, now I have 3 plus my wife and I. Most left over time and I didn’t replace them but a couple months back I had to lay off 3. Feel your pain man, sucks!

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        • PO'dpatriot says:

          After nearly twenty years in business,I’ve laid all my employees off but my son. And yes it does suck. Big Time.!

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          • caryn says:

            it makes me feel a little better knowing that there are some employers who feel badly for having to lay off some of their employees. i have been layed off from my job with a building and supply business since dec.2008 with no hope of being called back..i loved my job and i respected my employer very much.

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          • Babble-on says:

            I used to know a guy that worked for Sears. Anytime firings or layoffs came down, they sent him all over the country to do the dirty deed. “Hi, I’m from corp H.Q.s and I’m here to supervise your demise in a timely and orderly fashion. Now, get out”! What kind of job is that?

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    21. We’re not buying more at this house…it’s just costing us more…anybody seeing this as growth is dumber than a fifth grader!!!

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    22. DigiRonin says:

      I don’t think the SHTF will happen even after August 2nd debt ceiling debacle. It’s all just fear mongering and political, reality TV theater nonsense. The SHTF will occur at the most least expected moment. You notice anytime people put dates for something to occur, nothing ever happens. Like God said “it’ll come like a thief in the night”.

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    23. Paul Revere says:

      Obama and his D.C. jackals will feed voraciously on the middle class carcass and leave just enough meat for the nations’ welfare class so Obama can secure their votes in 2012. Protect yourself any and every way you can.

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    24. dreamer8280 says:

      I agree DigRon… This is like the set up for a perfect storm, first economic trouble, then a natural disaster, or lack of rain raising the prices on food. Everything stacked up on top of each other… you don’t know when BUT you can be PREPARED!! I love reading everyone’s posts, very helpful, just learned about potassium ioidide the other day on here!

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    25. Anonymous says:

      USDX 73.74 H. Reid is a doughnut (death warmed over) hole puncher. Thaxs doughnut hole receivers that put him in. Monday will be exciting…but you won’t catch me bending over. Aug 5th is the pretenders birthday, but hey, who can you trust in the belt weigh. I trust All Star Mexican Wrestlers more and I don’t even get it.

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    26. Man Up says:

      We all know that this has been a long time coming,
      But for those who are just catching on…
      Here we go, it’s starting!!! :0

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    27. Dante says:

      There won’t be a date until 50 years in the future when historians pick one. For the rest of us, it’s going to be slipping and sliding with occasional improvements until we slide far enough that people “know” we have entered a crisis. The difference between people on this website and the Average Dumb American is we’ve seen the signs and realize what they mean, while they are still living in Rainbows and Unicorns Land.

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    28. Ben Dover says:

      That is the day he celebrates, but who knows?

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    29. caryn says:

      i sincerely believe that the shtf in october 2008…and the reason many people don’t recognize it as such is because it has been slowly picking up speed since. things are starting to happen a little faster now and some people are starting to worry and take notice…but like a line of dominoes tumbling, it eventually runs out of dominoes that can fall. we know it will fall, we even as preppers anticipate its’ final fall.

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    30. Kevin2 says:

      One can only buy / store so much food. You better be able to grow more. Consult your local Amish farmer for advice. Maybe sub contract your services to protect them because they tend to frown on doing it themselves. GuardYourFarmINC. Kinda catchy.

      The geo-political impact of either a US default (very unlikely) or very high to hyper inflation (beyond possible and more likely probable) brings on a host of problems. Foreign dollar dependent nations will have violent revolutions fueled by empty stomachs. That tends to be a catalyst for wars as nations decide that theft is the only recourse. These are real; we’re stealing everything your country has wars. Global commerce is disrupted (beware what you ask for) and things like oil are in short supply. That just increases the problems with domestic commerce which needs no more problems then it already has.

      Actually as bad as it can get in the US it would be worse elsewhere. Abundant Natural Gas and sufficient food can support a foundation that can be built upon. This is providing your not living in one of the decaying former industrial cities or their suburbs. Regardless it’s a very rough road at best.

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      • Here’s how to grow: Rot excess vegetable matter in barrels. They do not have to be turnable, to get air down into the compost repeatedly stick a metal rod in occasionally. The black rot of compost (6 months) mixed equally with fine dusty sand is soil. Place it in the top 25% of the barrel which you cut off as a planter. It’s good to have built a false bottom in the planter so water can be stored under the plant. Now you can even bring your plants indoors if you have too! The soil will be so good you won’t believe it! Good luck everyone!

        Oh, and to stay well and heal real fast and thoroughly, read this: http://peroxideman.com

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        • PO'dpatriot says:

          QB, great post. I’ve been a believer of composting and using it in all garden aps for a long time. All vegetable peelings, things that didn’t get eaten in time that are NOT meat, bone, contain grease or oil, are placed in the compost piles near my garden (also the chicken poop). Some of you will laugh, but your own urine is some of the best liquid fertilizer that you can use. It has to be diluted. I haven’t made that step yet….google it up.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        Like the plague in Europe, it will be a living hell while it is happening, but the lot of the survivors will be better.

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    31. BlackSheep says:

      The Quote of the Decade
      “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America ‘s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America ‘s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, “the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
      – Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

      He talks a good game but like any liar, business as usual.

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    32. Good article Mac! Frankly, I want to see some action. Tired of this slow slog to the bottom. Boring! I wanna see them mix it up! Looks like that might happen. I think my Tea Party representatives are actually doing their jobs!!! I keep sending them messages: HOLD THE LINE! REMEMBER YOUR MANDATE!

      For the first time in history, the debt clock may start running BACKWARDS in a few months or years.

      Man! Wouldn’t that be something!

      BTW, I retrieved the book today. Put it on the shelf in the larder in Position #1. You’re the man! We all thank you for your service!

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      • greaseman says:

        Do some checking on that debt clock moving backward thingy. It’s already been analysized and computated many times. the national debt, and the interest on the national debt, cannot mathmatically ever be paid off. we’ve gone to far, and gone past the tipping point. justwaiting for the fall.

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      • Bloodyfellow says:

        Netranger: I got in an argument with some of my family the other day…Said something that I should not have said. We all get stressed with worry of what (SHTF) will be like. Most of us on here are dong all we can to weather this (Economics Super Storm) we all fill deep in our gut. We know that it’s coming!

        I have been to war and I have been in combat…and there is nothing like hoping your ass back on the ship to come home. That is after eight months give or take a month or so. There is no ship or jet to fly you ass back to home sweet home in (SHTF). People can’t even comprehend what a full blown civil war would be like in this country.

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        • So, what are you saying? That I shouldn’t look on our chance to win back the freedoms we have lost with a certain amount of anticipation? We’re not headed for civil war, we’re already waging it. The battles are small and sparse but they are there. …and with each little battle, Americans lose a little more. Its combat of a different type. Its here and its happening. The establishment is hiding the war. I just want it out in the open. …and I want them disarmed. No ability to go more into debt and they can’t buy the tools of war. Shut off the money and we win. Economy will be rough for a while but we’ll get over it. Some of us.

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          • Bloodyfellow says:

            I agree with you on this 100% we are at war. But, I feel people underestimate what true full out war is like. That is all I’m really saying.

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          • Bloodyfellow says:

            NetRanger: check this out! lol

            http://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia

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          • Thanks to you, I’m one of ^^his^^ biggest fans!

            Have nice day!

            LOL!

            While I think you are correct that we (me and others that haven’t been in combat) don’t understand the horrors of ware, I really don’t think it will be all out war like you are thinking. The reason: The powers that be love to send guys like you across the ocean and watch embedded reporters and gun cameras show them what you’re doing or have done. Its sanitary and its easy.

            I think they’ll do things quite differently when its in their back yard and its their kids and their people who are getting bullets and shrapnel.

            Besides, I don’t think it will be like that, even. I think the old structure of the federal corporate government will just evaporate. What we’ll need to deal with is YOYO (You’re On Your Own) with no police or medical and starvations.

            The politicians simply say anything to get a vote. Their actual concern about feeding the people and/or keeping them safe only extend as far as they can get them to vote or use them as political pressure waves. They are a sick bunch. Do you think ANY of these politicians will be out here trying to help feed the millions of hungry? I will be and I’ll just bet you will be to. We’ve gotta prep so we can survive, not just for us, but for America.

            The war will be economic and based on food. The US Military won’t fight the population, I’m convinced of that. As much as I’ve downed the military for being tools of TPTB, they really have had no choice in the matter are the last constitutional arm of the USA. And while TPTB have used them and screwed them, they are still good at heart and they will take their oaths seriously and will not go against it.

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    33. Hammerun says:

      This is what happens when a population elect’s a wide eyed 5th grader as president.
      On a personal note; it’s not just Obama, he’s not that smart. He is just an effing puppet.
      There is other forces and alliances happening here.
      Glad I didn’t vote for the F***.

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    34. dreamer8280 says:

      heirloom seeds at http://www.heirloomseeds.com/ best site i have found… yes storing food is great but be prepared to garden too… and not just for shif, to teach your family how to grow so if the shif in their era, they are prep’d. question, what about water? i want to install a hand pump on my well, it’s 150 deep but water is 20 feet below ground surface. andy advice? i keep having reoccuring dreams of the missippippi river splitting apart… anyone else?

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    35. dreamer8280 says:

      anyone that is interested on the spiritual basis of all the shif, i have found this page very intersting.

      http://www.understandthetimes.org/101prophecy.shtml

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    36. Childofcorn says:

      If you are reading this and haven’t stocked up on necessities, you’re almost out of time.

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    37. Bloodyfellow says:

      Run Piggy Run!!!

      http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81491467/

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    38. BlackSheep says:

      Caught on tape: Police beat and taser ‘gentle’ mentally-ill homeless man to death in California

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019225/Kelly-Thomas-Police-beat-taser-gentle-mentally-ill-homeless-man-death.html#ixzz1TYgqHlSZ

      sorry, double post. I posted this on an old news thread. wasn’t paying attention I guess.. in any event, I don’t like the looks of this one. I can”t see anyone resisting enough to get this kind of beating from 6 officers.

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    39. grayfoxgreen says:

      Greetings Everyone!
      Hard times ahead,unless the REPOCRATS totally get stupid(IT COULD HAPPEN!! as Judy Datunda used to say),I suspect that they agree to give everyone on SSI,Federal retirement,etc a 30-50% haircut to let the UBER-RICH keep owning/buying their toys for a few years more.Let’s call it a decade or two of pretending to care for the people who voted for them.just enough time for those of this generation of UBER-RICH to get to enjoying living it up till they die.
      Just a few thoughts.
      Best to All,
      GFG
      P.S. IT raining today!Praise God!

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    40. BlackSheep says:

      another one, Caught on tape: Police ‘stripped unarmed man naked, kicked, beat and tasered him as he lay screaming in snow’ Tennessee.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019112/Caught-tape-Police-stripped-unarmed-man-naked-kicked-beat-tasered-lay-screaming-snow.html#ixzz1TYxWoW9O

      I am not liking the trend I am seeing with the law. hard to believe I find this info on a UK mail site and not American news.. ugg

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    41. jrsmac says:

      People get right with God through His Son Jesus.
      The end is close!

      John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

      Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing
      without revealing his plan
      to his servants the prophets.

      A snippet of a vision of a “sneak nuclear attack” on America by Russia.

      http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=first

      Suddenly the silence was shattered by the screaming of sirens. The sirens seemed to scream, “RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!”

      Never before had I heard such shrill, screaming sirens. They seemed to be everywhere–to the north, the south, the east, and the west. There seemed to be multitudes of sirens; and as I looked, I saw people everywhere running, but it seemed none of them ran more than a few paces, and then they fell. And even as I had seen the Statue of Liberty struggling to regain her poise and balance and finally falling for the last time to die on her face, I now saw millions of people falling in the streets, on the sidewalks, struggling. I heard their screams for mercy and help. I heard their horrible coughing as though their lungs had been seared with fire. I heard the moanings and groanings of the doomed and the dying. As I watched, a few finally reached shelters, but only a few ever got to the shelters.

      Above the moaning and the groaning of the dying multitudes, I heard these words: “A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth, for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations. He will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth, and the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.” (Jeremiah 25:31-33)

      Then suddenly I saw from the Atlantic and from the Pacific and out of the Gulf rocket-like objects that seemed to come up like fish leaping out of the water. High into the air they leaped, each headed in a different direction, but every one toward the United States. On the ground the sirens screamed louder, and up from the ground I saw similar rockets beginning to ascend. To me these appeared to be interceptor rockets although they arose from different points all over the United States; however, none of them seemed to be successful in intercepting the rockets that had risen from the ocean on every side. These rockets finally reached their maximum height, slowly turned over and fell back toward the earth in defeat.

      Then suddenly the rockets which had leaped out of the oceans like fish all exploded at once. The explosion was ear-splitting. The next thing which I saw was a huge ball of fire. The only thing I have ever seen which resembled the thing I saw in my vision was the picture of the explosion of the H-bomb somewhere in the South Pacific. In my vision it was so real that I seemed to feel a searing heat from it.

      As the vision spread before my eyes and I viewed the widespread desolation brought about by the terrific explosions, I could not help thinking, While the defenders of our nation have quibbled over what means of defense to use and neglected the only true means of defense–faith and dependence upon the true and living God–the thing which she greatly feared has come unto her! How true it has proven in Psalms 127:1: Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it; except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        JRSMAC: Are you still pushing this crap? Are you desperate for hits for your website? Its NOT bibilical, period. The future of America is Washington’s Vision.

        Washington’s Vision is here:

        http://shtfearthchanges.blogspot.com/p/washington.html

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        • jrsmac says:

          Durango Kidd says:

          JRSMAC: Are you still pushing this crap? Are you desperate for hits for your website? Its NOT bibilical, period.
          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          Amos 3:7 is not biblical?

          Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing
          without revealing his plan
          to his servants the prophets.

          Durango, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you.
          Believe whatever you want.

          For the wise , our demise is close at hand.
          God is judging America!
          If we try to cause Israel to divide her land, then it is over for us as a nation.
          God have mercy.
          Get right with God, while you still can.

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          • Durango Kidd says:

            JRSMAC: The Bible quotes are one thing. Your delusional rants about the US being attacked by Russia is another. Get a grip, man!

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    42. smeegoan says:

      We are 14 trillion in debt only 4.5 trillion is foreign btw the rest is social programs that can be cut, and shit like retirement which gets paid back in every year, with a 15 trillion dollar GDP.

      Fear mongering about the deficit is just that. By the way, I believe the debt ceiling was raised Seven times by the republicans for bush. http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/10-inconvenient-truths-about-debt-ceiling fucking seven. without a peep.

      Fact is clinton had the budget to the point we were paying down the national debt, till bushco started spending before even 9/11 and started pissing money away. http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

      I’m not saying there aren’t issues, and we shouldn’t be prepared. Hell I am, lots of ammo, food a safe location to head to with fresh water. In the event of “whatever”

      However… the debt issue and economy has been an issue in the mainstream for one big reason. Politics. If these assholes gave a rats ass they would trim the budget, quit paying into the IMF and kick out the fedreserve parasites when it comes up for renewal in 2013

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      • And Mr. Obama, I believe it was, voted against one in 2006, and said “needing to raise it was a failure in leadership.”. LMK if you can’t find the whole quote, and I can paste it here for you. BHO is a failure!

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    43. you are fucking retarded.

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    44. VRF says:

      House passed it, (Boehners plan)..Senate iced it

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    45. out of your mind batshit insane.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    46. Fatty says:

      Just like they said they would.

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    47. four2netfemale says:

      This is one of the very few places these statistics are even mentioned, funny you’d think this would be all over the news but instead all we hear about is the debt ceiling fiasco. This is the kind of reporting we should be hearing, the truth and how to interpret this information for the masses. This is why we have so many ignorant people out there, the media is owned by a few with an agenda which includes keeping the sheep quiet until just before the slaughter.

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    48. “Nothing the government tells us can be trusted.”

      Oh! No! Say it isn’t so!!!

      …hehehe. Yeah, since, oh, what? 2000? How about SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FUCKING TIME!!!

      Sorry. There is nothing on this planet more dangerous than government. It has raped, robbed, poisoned, destroyed, perverted and lied more than anything on this planed. …and the US Government top the list of governments that do and have done this.

      In reality, the only enemy the people ever had was their government or their percieved enemies government. People don’t go to war, governments do but then they coerce the people into coming along.

      Government is the crime. What is the cure?

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      • Morphed says:

        The cure is for people to wake up and come together…the problem is that we can never agree on anything, and “solutions” are so short-sighted and biased. Understanding how and why these things happened is of little comfort now…but I find it fascinating that we never look to fix things until they’re BROKE…I’m glad to know there are others on this thread that see what I see, and know what I know…THAT is comfort.

        Even if I did have it figured out…what am I to do? Nobody’s listening to me. Some family and friends think I’m paranoid. They, themselves, don’t follow current events. It’s “too depressing.”

        I think we need to assume that nothing is under control…that this thing got away from them (government)…and that they are not as coordinated as they’d like us to think they are.

        Read this article by Martin Armstrong

        http://armstrongeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/armstrongeconomics-restructuring-the-world-072811.pdf

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    49. mushroom says:

      Repeat after me…

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      If you are following the plan
      you will soon be able to buy
      whatever you want. The entire
      country will be on sale. Now,
      where was I? Oh, yea…

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

      mushroom
      .
      .
      .

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    50. Tom says:

      Woof

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    51. OLDVET says:

      IMPROVISE-ADAPT-OVERCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    52. BlackSheep says:

      hey Durango Kidd,
      have you heard peeps about this corporate scam being presented again?
      http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/holiday-in-scambodia-20110720

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    53. Durango Kidd says:

      Hey Black Sheep: Actually I have heard about it before. There was a trial balloon a couple months ago. Actually I might be for a reduction to 25% for repatriated profits if some sort of jobs/investment measure was attached to say, half of the repatriated profits.

      Have you heard about the $16 trillion dollars that Uncle Ben secretly loaned to companies and nations between 2008 and 2010?

      That new info changes mu perspective about the dangers of a financial collapse. I mean, what kind of collateral did the US taxpayers get for their loans? Find it here.

      http://shtftimesepitaph.blogspot.com/

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      • BlackSheep says:

        dang man.. this bites hard. I cant believe they are actually thinking another tax holiday for the corps.. I guess all the offshore players want to bring money back into the country for bonus’s to their people again.. (would this maybe be so them people can leave or prepare to leave?.. you think maybe?)

        we know they will create zip for jobs.. that is a pipe dream of wishful thinking even if they try to attach as you say a, “25% for repatriated profits if some sort of jobs/investment measure” we know they will circumvent that in one way or another with loop holes of some fancy wording type..

        On that 16 Trillion, yes I seen that last week on that senator Bernie Sanders website.
        http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3
        I have been waiting to hear uproar over it but it has been brushed to the back with all the debt ceiling theater drama.
        from what I have heard, They got no collateral, only promise’s same as our FRN’s lol.

        I am really thinking now they want to crush us with enormous interest rates.. they are losing control and they know it. tighten the leash’s so to speak.

        I really dunno where we are leading to now but it isn’t pretty :(

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          BS: I hear you. Yes they want to repatiate the profits to line their pockets, but legislation could be structured to intice them to use half the cash for new plant and equipment in the USA.

          Big Business is starting to get the message that Americans are PISSED! GE CEO in particular, as he heads Obummer’s business initiative. He needs to understand that if America doesn’t work and if America doesn’t eat, then he isn’t going to be working or eating either.

          Feed the poor or they will feed on you. Let them start with Imelt, the GE CEO.

          25% tax is better than nothing and if they use the cash offshore it just creates more investment and more jobs in other countries. That doesn’t do anything for US, at all.

          As for them leaving, where would they go? No place is safer than America … even for them. When the SHTF it will be global in nature, even if it were to start here. And most places around the world would be worse off than WE would be, as more of our population lives in single family homes that COULD supply some food for the occupants.

          Most of the world lives in apts. Window boxes full of sprouts and cabbage in the bath tub won’t cut it, worldwide.

          Just saying.

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          • BlackSheep says:

            I hope you are rite.. but when it really gets going “TSHTF”.. I don’t really think it will be safer here for the first year or so… to many guns here compared to them other places.. LOL
            after that, ya I do see this as a desirable location.. but who knows what they want..lol

            but hey, lets not forget all the big wigs always seem be buying large parcels out of this country.. even G Busch bought in Paraguay or where ever that was.. they buying big land in Africa etc..

            I fully agree, them holding the money offshore does nothing here, never has. they just keep bleeding us and I have no faith in them. they lost credibility to me many years back.. now I just watch their ACTIONs, I can care less of their TALK..LOL

            Anyway, have a great day bro !

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        • America is their market. The world is making $2.25 an hour in volumes and isn’t going to be buying the stuff GE is making or many other companies. They need the US market.

          The money corporations hold overseas is money made overseas. It is money earned from operations outside of America, and yet America expects 34.5% of it to be paid to her just for bringing it home? Only one other nation on the planet charges that much – and I can’t recall if its Japan or who?

          On top of the 34.5% you have individual state taxes ranging from 5 to 16%, but no fear…those at 16 won’t see a dime and those at 5 get very little due to the Federal tax on corporations.

          Obamas railing on the “Jet Tax Loop Hole” is worthy of noting it would raise $3 billion in 10 years ($300m a year) “IF” corporations didn’t just drop their Jets and get more good jobs canned. The “loophole” is a 5 year allowed depreciation instead of a 7 allowing for a larger “expense.” Expenses get paid before taxes so its not clearly just a write off but an expense decision they are still free to make. BTW Mr. BHO in TARP initiated a one year 100% depreciation for the same Jet AirCraft back in 2009….the ultimate tax loophole but he doesn’t talk about that one much.

          Let the US Companies bring their nearly $2 trillion home and it will create jobs. It will because it will be distributed to those who create work.

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    54. Rachel says:

      I agree the economy is heading for a cliff but this is a bunch of scare tactics. Though people are spending less they are still spending.

      Case in point. Leapster (child’s learning toy) has come out with leapad. It’s retail is 100 bucks. They were taking pre-orders and actually had to stop taking orders till the factory could catch up. The hottest toy this christmas is gonna be a 100 dollar child’s computerpad.

      We all know the debt ceiling is a bunch of crap, and there will be more bail-outs. Taxes will go up and food will too.

      But as long as parents are willing to spend money on children’s toys six months in advanced we are not on the edge of a total breakdown. People are spending money. They spend money on video games, computers and cell phones. They spend money on digital cameras, ipads and kids toys.

      People are not spending money on housewares, homes, new cars and big ticket items. People are however, still going out to eat.

      Yes, we arein a depression. No we are not falling off the cliff yet.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        You are right about that Rachel. There are a lot of people with money and they are spending it, just as they always have.

        I anticipate a deal on the debt ceiling/reduction, a bounce for the stock market, and more lending by the banks ….. until 2013.

        Then we can bend over and kiss OUR collective butt goodbye.

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      • BlackSheep says:

        Rachel, I believe you are correct that people are still spending money and such but the part that turns me blue is, that money is really nothing but debt.. I don’t see how spending debt really means anything other than more debt is being traded for toys.

        (I also don’t understand how we can pay debt with another debt.. how can debt be paid with debt?.. but that is just me and my warped mind)

        to me it really has no bearing on how much money is moving around.. for anything to move it must have lubrication of a basic resource.. the lubrication amount will decide it all…

        the lube I am talking about is OIL, with no oil everything will stop cold turkey regardless of how many pieces of debt paper anyone has.. 2 of the biggest oil reserve in the world if not biggest are NOT run by central bank scams.. Iran and Chavez in Venezuela..

        ya TPTB took Libya into the mix but that is small potato.. anyway, how many oil nations are there left that do not par take in central bank scams.. not sure but I think 3 or 4.. not sure but it tells me there’s not much left that is easily gettable.

        yes oil is the second most available liquid after water but to go that deep for it takes more than it produces..

        DK, I think you are ‘hoping and wishing’ what you say leading to 2013 is how it plays out..

        I would have to say I am hoping for that myself BUT, and that is a big BUT, lol..

        DK you know enough about all the earth changes taking place and that is something you know will be the deciding factor of what 2013 will bring or if we even get there still breathing.

        anyway, enough said, I am with ya both and DK I see many things that you are correct about (most, if not all)..
        I can only hope 2013 comes as you say :)
        to bad we will kiss our butts goodbye in one way or another anyhow.

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      • In August the Gov will take in $200 billion and want to spend $300 billion; falling $100 billion short will cause interest rates to rise, unemployment to increase, and markets to decline. If no change:

        In September the Gov will find its revenues declining to $190 billion while its interest and unemployment expenses increase to $310 billion. A $120 billion shortfall they can’t fund. More reduction of asset value, higher interest and even more unemployment,

        In October the revenue decreaes to $175 billion while the cost runs up to $325 billion. I thinking this is about where OPEC says we’ll take gold instead of dollars for our oil. Then SHTF.

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          Jim: Who is going to protect the Gulf from Iran if the Saudis demand gold instead of FRN’s? Better the devil they know than the devil they know. :-)

          They can still buy gold with their dollars and the dollar recently bounced.

          Jim Rogers owns the dollar. Why? Because its still the world reserve currency until Europe untangles its mess. That will take years.

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          • China and India purchase more oil from the Middle East then we do. I believe they will gladly step up and protect the House of Saud from Iran. In fact I think the Chinese “protection” would be far better then our own. Mess with our friends – we nuke you – bye bye. China doesn’t have the same politica restraints on its military we do – Iran knows this very well.

            They could buy gold with their dollars but at $3k an ounce and declining rapidly – they’ll grow tired of paying the middle man. They’ll tell the US to buy gold and use it for the oil.

            The Euro will likely collapse first. Watch the UN enter the monetary game shortly with the “Green Back.”

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    55. Durango Kidd says:

      BS: Not everything happens at once. It takes time for these things to manifest. There’s lots of time as long as you are paying attention and prepping.

      As far as these offshore investments of land in Africa and South America, how long do you think that will last once the SHTF?

      The government there or the locals there will have their own revolution and confiscate that big land grab in a New York minute.

      I knew a family from OK that once own 10,000 acres in Mexico …. before Poncho Villa. Now they have squat.

      We are in the Last Days and when the smoke finally clears there will be a “New Word Order” running things, but it won’t be the NWO running things. :-)

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      • BlackSheep says:

        I dunno DK, the more I look in to all this the more damming it gets… why would GE need any of this when they paid $0 in tax and actually received a 3.2 billion tax credit?.
        GE, a company that received a $140 billion bailout en route to worldwide 2010 profits of $14 billion
        things I am reading include,

        G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

        Cisco Wants Tax Repatriation Holiday In Exchange for Creating Jobs, But Now is Massively Laying Off Employees.
        http://www.googlemonopoly.eu/index.php/2011/07/19/cisco-wants-tax-repatriation-holiday-will-create-jobs-but-now-massive-laying-off-employees/
        “”This is the same Cisco who’s effective tax rate has gone from 41.4% in 1998 to 17.5% in 2010, far less than the 35% maximum.””

        Tax `Shenanigans’ Turn U.S. Sales to Foreign Income With Billions Offshore
        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/tax-shenanigans-turn-u-s-sales-to-foreign-income-with-billions-offshore.html
        We both already know, “”Multinationals “shift the burden of paying for our national security and homeland security and other public services to small businesses and family taxpayers, who play by the rules and do not engage in these shenanigans.””

        as another has stated, The good news is: I just found my mind again. After reading all this, I’m starting to think I might wanna lose it again. And as of yet, more than half the country is in need of a job, but, hey, does that really matter anymore?
        I do not think it does to the TPTB or the “New Word Order”.. I hear ya on the freudian slip :)

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        JIM: While it may well be true that India and China purchase more oil from Saudi Arabia than WE do, India is not gonna protect anybody from anyone. They certaintly will not take on Iran. That would open the door to Pakistan and what ever may be left in Afganistan. India? Not gonna happen.

        The Saudi oil fields are mature and in decline; and it does not appear to have any more major fields to be discovered.

        On the other hand China is in bed with Iran and Iran has discovered a number of new, large oil and gas fields, with more to follow.

        Which is why they need nuclear energy. :-)

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      • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

        Saudis and Chinese have been coming down to Australia and NZ buying up as much farm land as they can lately. Lots of extremely wealthy Americans have come down this way and snapped up big parcel’s of land too. They have a lazy few million in their back pocket and out bid the locals. I hope all the problem causing scum, from the Northern hemisphere, don’t rush down here to our part of the world when The SHTF. We’ve already felt the financial backlash and pinch from Europe and American failures over the last couple years. It sucks. The European and US economies are “parasitic” and have literally fed off other countries at will, over the years. What really sucks is the possibility that we’ll have to sink with you in the coming weeks and months. It wouldn’t be so bad if people didn’t give up without a fight.

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    56. Durango Kidd says:

      That may have been a freudian slip and not bad spelling . :-)

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    57. Pay no attention to these numbers… one only needs to pay a visit to the gas pump or grocery store to know the truth!

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    58. kevin says:

      Don’t pay attention to any of this bull$hit smoke and mirrors debt limit talk. Just do the math. $14,000,000,000,000 “OFFICIAL DEBT” $16,000,000,000,000 in secret bailouts(that we know about) $4,000,000,000,000 from social security “INVESTED” for us in treasuries. So that is $34,000,000,000,000 that we owe! With all the 100′s of billions of conterfeit treasuries out there, plus any treasuries that they are HIDING from us, I wouldn’t be surprised if we owe 68 trillion dollars right here, right now! WE ARE IN DEEP DOO DOO!!!!!!

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    59. Durango Kidd says:

      Kevin: According to the National Debt widget on the bottom of the SHTF America landing page, the total debt is $75.5 trillion and climbing.

      The $16 trillion LOANED by the FED does not constitute debt. It is an asset, unless and until these enties default; which they probably will when the SHTF.

      It would be interesting to know what, if anything, was provided as collateral for the loans.

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      • kevin says:

        I see your point DK. The DOODOO is deeper then I thought. I will start drinking early today!

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      • VRF says:

        the collateral is probably property, properties, companies.Insurance monies, etc.and other items owned by “We the people”..
        and Im sure what ever the collateral was, WE were not asked to be a part of the choice, we were just to either pay for it, or give some of the entities in this country that make up our economy, (whats left of ot)To these other “countrys” or governments of other countries..but we cant leave out any of the fat cats..TPAB if it were. Im sure those pockets are being filled just fine.

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    60. Jim in Ohio says:

      No! No panic until I sell my house! I need somebody to buy this 350k thing. THEN it can fall apart.

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    61. Shill says:

      If this does not piss you off nothing will.

      Judge Judy – Here’s Who You Support With Taxes

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XA2UUpXRk&feature=player_embedded#at=126

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    62. stan says:

      If it wasn’t clear up until today, it should be now. Nothing the government tells us can be trusted. They will say anything and do anything to avoid panic”

      LOL. You ain’t saying that Barrack Hussein Obama would lie, Are you?

      LOLOLOLOL

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    63. PO'dpatriot says:

      Wouldn’t be surprised if a “Bank Holiday ” is called in the event that the debt ceiling is not lifted to new heights. Babarff would then be able to pick up some more “loose change” from everyones accounts and then thank them for being patriotic.

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    64. PO'dpatriot says:

      Check out Zero Hedge.com and look at the article ” Obamas final loophole” regarding an ‘out’ if congress can’t come to terms on the debt ceiling. Thank you George Bush.

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    65. Dboy says:

      Hopefully the relevance of this will be obvious:

      HSBC Private Bank to stop offering on-island services to US residents

      LONDON (Reuters) – The private banking arm of HSBC – including its Bermuda branch – will stop offering services to US residents outside the United States as a crackdown on offshore tax evasion makes the regulatory burden of banking around the world increasingly onerous.
      “HSBC Private Bank has conducted a review of services provided to US private bank clients from locations outside of the US, we believe that US private bank clients will be better served by our Private Banking teams in the United States,” HSBC Bermuda stated in response to this newspaper’s request for comment yesterday.
      A team of advisers will help affected clients through the transition, HSBC said.
      A source at the bank said the decision was voluntary and not in response to action against it by US authorities.
      Last week the US Internal Revenue Service said it would give foreign financial institutions another six months to start complying with a new law to prevent offshore tax evasion by Americans under a phased-in schedule of compliance.
      Under the deal, institutions now have until June 30, 2013, to reach agreements with the IRS on cooperation. These agreements previously had been expected to be concluded by the end of 2012.
      Planned new rules will oblige non-US financial institutions to disclose details of wealthy US clients or face a withholding tax on their US assets, effectively putting the burden of disclosure on the bank rather than the client.
      Critics in the banking industry argue the rules are likely to prove complex and costly because of the difficulty of identifying who is a US person, a category that takes in citizens, residents and Green Card holders among others.
      A number of banks have recently found themselves under the scrutiny of US authorities looking to track down assets hidden from the tax man offshore.
      Swiss bank Credit Suisse revealed earlier this month it was the target of a US Department of Justice probe, part of its broader investigation into banks suspected of helping Americans evade taxes.
      The DoJ also announced recently it was looking into whether HSBC in India may have been used by some Americans to keep undeclared assets.
      Credit Suisse’s main Swiss rival UBS paid a $780 million fine in 2009 and agreed to hand over information about nearly 5,000 secret accounts held by US citizens to settle US charges it aided tax evasion.
      The UBS case prompted many private banks to tighten up their policies for dealing with American clients, in some cases making it hard for US persons to find a bank overseas that will take their business.
      Meanwhile, rising intolerance among western governments for offshore tax evasion has spread beyond the US with authorities in Germany and Britain taking steps to claw back revenues from undeclared assets.

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    66. RICH says:

      i thought the economy is collapsing ? the economy is always next to collapse ! when will you people learn ? year after year they keep telling us how its going to collapse.

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      • BlackSheep says:

        the facts to me say, yes it is collapsing but this is not something that happens in 6 months, 1 year, 5 years or even 10 years total time..

        it is a very long multi decade process that will always continue to gain momentum.. until the time comes when it starts moving so fast YOU will not even have time to keep up.
        we have already lost 97% of the value our dollar once had.. just wait till it loses 97% of what it has left now.

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    67. Kevin2 says:

      Durango Kidd

      “The $16 trillion LOANED by the FED does not constitute debt. It is an asset, unless and until these enties default; which they probably will when the SHTF.”

      The Federal Reserve as you know creates money out of thin air. The collateral is more money created out of thin air. It is debt regardless what they call it; “A rose by any other name smells just as sweet”.

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      • BlackSheep says:

        YEP, debt is debt.. it has no other real name.

        debt is money and money is debt.
        it is a VERY tangled web..lol

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      • BlackSheep says:

        the part that gets me is how we think we can pay our debt with something that represents another debt by another.. it all just does not add up to me.

        I can pay debt with debt.. well how can that be, if the debt I used to pay my debt was to go belly up and be worthless (the person I got my debt dollar from defaulted) ?? ..
        wouldn’t that then mean I never really paid my debt then, as them debt notes would not be redeemable ?..

        lets say I buy a brand new truck, I then go to paying my debt with debt notes. in my mind once the debt notes are worthless wouldn’t that mean I never REALLY paid my debt for that hard real asset ?.. I mean the truck itself is not a representation of debt but I was able to obtain it through debt notes..???
        if them debt notes become worthless how did I pay for it then ??

        I know if I borrow a 5 dollar bill from someone and then return a 5 dollar bill to them, I do consider that paid.. BUT in this ‘electronic’ digital world I do not see it being the same.. in the end the banks will have all cash back in their hands but ‘we’ will ALL still owe the principal thanks to that weapon called interest.

        it is like a game of musical chairs, who ever is left standing is left holding the bags of worthless debt..

        eye, eye, I… my brain warps on this whole concept.. LOL, my sixth grade education mind can not handle this concept, I guess I am missing some of the trickery words or some shit :)

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        Kevin2: I’m sorry Kevin, you obviously do not have a background in either banking or accounting. Yes, money is created out of thin air.

        Money created out of thin air is an asset because it can be used to buy real goods and services, loaned to others, or used to pay debts.

        Money loaned is an asset. Money owed is debt. Loans that default are bad debt for the borrower, losses for the lender.

        Keep reading, you’ll get it.

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    68. BlackSheep says:

      if I can pay my debt, with debt, who is it that is accumulating///collecting all this debt?? how or what are they going to collect on all them debts ??… OUCH, brain freeze, my brain hurts.

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    69. Kevin2 says:

      Durango Kidd

      Your correct, I have no back round in Accounting or Banking. I have read enough to see this mess coming when my educated stock broker (and most others in the field) could not. I went “to cash” in Feb 2007 and only only jumped in and out of “the market” for short periods. I bought into some PHYS (gold fund) throughout the time never selling. My educated stock broker advised against PHYS and buying gold. So much for formal education. It looks like the University of Hard Knocks and a bit of reading payed off more then an MBA for me. Hell the Chairman of the Federal Reserve “supposedly” did not see this coming. I did.

      If more money is produced above productivity prices will rise under constant demand. Demand (velocity) may have dropped but it is insignificant relative to the amount of money being produced. The “asset” of increasing money only dilutes the value of existing money in the above situation. The established “accounting practices” are not taking into account the inflationary effects of increasing M1, M2 & M3. It’s debatable if the inflationary cost is being seen on paper because they just drop the inputs (like food and fuel) that show the inflation ( money devaluation). Wealth (assets) does not come from a printing press therefore money creation cannot be an “asset”. Wealth is born from productivity. Two automobiles has double the wealth than one automobile being chased by twice as much “money”.

      If creating massive additional fiat currency is an asset why did the Weimar Republic go “belly up”? They were just creating assets correct? All the US has is a much greater “sink” to dilute it’s additional currency into. It’s only an asset to the first hands it reaches because in the end it still dilutes the present supply of money

      They can call the creation of massive amounts of additional currency an asset and money loaned an asset but the latter has fallen apart and the former is about to do so. They can claim feces is pudding but it does not make it so.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        Kevin2: (1)Stockbrokers only make money on commisssion. Its no surprise that he steered you away from precious metals. No money in it for him if he can’t churn you.

        (2)Bernanke knows exactly what he is doing and what he is doing to US. The biggest fallacy I read here and elsewhere is that the people in DC and NYC are incompetent. Not at all. They only want you to believe they are. Malfeasance in office carries a much lighter sentence than treason.

        They know exactly what they are doing. Suggest you read “Trump Doesn’t Get It” at SHTF America. Here’s the link:

        http://shtfamerica.blogspot.com/2011/05/trump-doesnt-get-it_03.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ShtfAmerica+%28SHTF++America%29

        (3) Demand and velocity are not interchangeable. They are as different as apples and oranges and measure different things.

        (4) Wealth IS born from productivity and if those nations and corporations that have borrowed that $16 trillion dollars can leverage their productivity and use the loans to create more wealth its a good thing. The principle and interest of the loan is repaid and the dollars returned to the FED. I am concerned about the underlying quality of the collateral for those loans.

        (5) I am not an expert on the causes of the demise of the Weimar Republic so I cannot answer your question. There are probably political reasons for that demise as well as economic, but most folks just cling to the economic ones.

        As for the other comments in your post, I couldn’t really follow the argument or rationale.. Do you mean that additional money dilutes the VALUE of the present supply of money?

        Thats not necessarily true as QE 1 and 2 generated enough additional currency to produce double digit inflation by now, across the board. It hasn’t.

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    70. MadMarkie says:

      Lots of folks seem to be out doing some MASSIVE grocery shopping today. Of course, many seem to be using credit cards in order to make their purchases.

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    71. Michael says:

      You have been completely mislead if you are of the opinion that Israel is Gods chosen people. I know Israel and the Media continually tell you Israel is Gods chosen people. But this is a lie generated by Israel. Israel generated this lie during the second world war to solicit support for their returning to Israel. God took Israel from the Jews, Benjaminites, and the Levites, for dis-obedience. The Jews faked the severity of the Holocaust to form world opinion in their behalf.
      I will give you a short list of what the Jews have done against Gods law and introduce you to the fact that the Jews are only one of thirteen nations chosen by God. God chose one people particular and gave that people the cream of the countries of the world.Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

      There were thirteen tribes listed in Genesis, Israel blessed his sons, and two of Joseph’s sons and told them what was to be fall them and who they would be in the end of days. Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

      Revelation lists twelve tribes that are to be in Gods Kingdom, twelve thousand from each tribe, Nation. These one hundred and forty four thousand. Are Gods elect. They are protected during the tribulation–Day of the Lord. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

      Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
      Amo 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.
      Amo 8:4 Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,
      Amo 8:5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
      Amos: tells you of the Jews desire to change Gods Sabbath and to do away with the New Moon, festival. Ezekeiel tells you Gods temple is to be open on the New Moon and on the Sabbath. Gods Calendar is the Moon. A lunar calendar could not be rearranged like the Roman, Gregorian calendar. Gods holy days are set by the Lunar calendar.
      Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

      The Jews changed Gods Calendar from a Lunar calendar to our present calendar. They still keep the Holy days according to the Lunar calendar, some of the Holy days they keep correct others they have changed. The Jews changed the Day of Atonement, God said you are to afflict your soul on that day, the Jews changed the day from one of affliction to Fasting. God clearly states you are not allowed to fast on his Sabbaths. Punishable by death.
      The Book of Jubilees
      [The Book of Jubilees: Chapter 50]
      11 Sabbaths. This work alone shall be done on the Sabbath-days in the sanctuary of the Lord your God; that they may atone for Israel with sacrifice continually from day to day for a memorial well-pleasing before the Lord, and that He may receive them always from day to day according as thou
      12 hast been commanded. And every man who does any work thereon, or goes a journey, or tills (his) farm, whether in his house or any other place, and whoever lights a fire, or rides on any beast, or travels by ship on the sea, and whoever strikes or kills anything, or slaughters a beast or a bird, or
      13 whoever catches an animal or a bird or a fish, or whoever fasts or makes war on the Sabbaths: The man who does any of these things on the Sabbath shall die, so that the children of Israel shall observe the Sabbaths according to the commandments regarding the Sabbaths of the land, as it is written in the tablets, which He gave into my hands that I should write out for thee the laws of the seasons, and the seasons according to the division of their days.

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    72. Bill says:

      I hate to get off topic but I feel I must.

      Obama is an ass hole.

      Sorry

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      • Granite Prepper says:

        You know it’s bad when Kiosaki says to hoard guns and food. Time to bend over and hope for the complementary reach around.

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    73. Bloodyfellow says:

      Bill:

      Obama is only a mask, that the monster wares to cover an even uglier face!

      I hope to see the day where they are all attracting fly’s!!! ….. Fly’ seem to be attracted to Obama already if you have not noticed. :)

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    74. Bloodyfellow says:

      A great ancestor of mine once said:

      In 1775, Dragging Canoe made an impassioned speech to rally his people. He said:

      “Whole Indian Nations have melted away like snowballs in the sun before the white man’s advance. They leave scarcely a name of our people except those wrongly recorded by their destroyers. Where are the Delewares? They have been reduced to a mere shadow of their former greatness. We had hoped that the white men would not be willing to travel beyond the mountains. Now that hope is gone. They have passed the mountains, and have settled upon Tsalagi (Cherokee) land. They wish to have that usurpation sanctioned by treaty. When that is gained, the same encroaching spirit will lead them upon other land of the Tsalagi (Cherokees). New cessions will be asked. Finally the whole country, which the Tsalagi (Cherokees) and their fathers have so long occupied, will be demanded, and the remnant of the Ani Yvwiya, The Real People, once so great and formidable, will be compelled to seek refuge in some distant wilderness. There they will be permitted to stay only a short while, until they again behold the advancing banners of the same greedy host. Not being able to point out any further retreat for the miserable Tsalagi (Cherokees), the extinction of the whole race will be proclaimed. Should we not therefore run all risks, and incur all consequences, rather than to submit to further loss of our country? Such treaties may be alright for men who are too old to hunt or fight. As for me, I have my young warriors about me. We will hold our land. A-WANINSKI, I have spoken.”

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    75. grayfoxgreen says:

      Greetings Everyone!
      Bloodyfellow,I have the deepest sympathy for Native Americans.I cannot undo the past,only act in the most REAL Christian(in the truest sense of the word) way that I can towards others.That includes Native Americans,perhaps even more so.My wife is 30% Cherokee and her grandmother who was full-blooded Cherokee was a force to be reckoned with in the white town she lived nearby.Her and her husband lived off the land in harmony with it before such things were accepted by the mainstream white alt. groups who were not even old enough to feed themselves.I have heard of the Indian prophesies that foretell the demise and fall of the “white man”(I’m 20% Algonquin in my heritage).That “white man” is the descendant of those who acted with dishonest intentions back then towards Native Americans.They were living a lie to call themselves followers of Christ.Or any other Spiritual path for that matter.I DO have hope that the “Great Father” of us all will deal with those responsible for ruining the Earth.Wicked children who do only evil will be held accountable by him.What happens in the meantime will get really,really strange to be sure…
      Best to all,
      GFG

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    76. VRF says:

      Just a little history lesson..this is probably how it really went down when Lincon got killed, and how it really is

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Uf9rsBbhc

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    77. Kevin2 says:

      Durango Kidd

      “Do you mean that additional money dilutes the VALUE of the present supply of money?”

      Yes, no brainer beyond debate. Their increasing the supply of dollars and damn sure are not increasing the supply of US goods.

      Inflation defined is too many dollars chasing too few goods. You stated that we should have double digit inflation across the board. The CPI omits data intentionally to falsely lower the inflation figure. Omitting food and fuel is “garbage in, garbage out”. Consumer demand has lowered and hence the velocity of money has slowed. With the amount of money produced it will take little demand to start an inflationary cycle that cant be stopped. Regardless inflation is much higher then the “official” CPI figures.

      The Weimar Republic printed money in a vain attempt to keep the economy going. Inflation went up thousands of percent so that currency was better served as wall paper then money. The same policy has been repeated many times in many nations with the same result.

      Oh, PHYS is a gold fund. He made a commission that equaled buying a traditional stock. The broker is “classically schooled”. In the day the Federal Reserve did not print money to buy public debt. I’ll go out on a limb and say that the “playbook” that was and is currently being taught can be discarded. Oh brokers do make money when you buy AND SELL. Traditionally educated they could not see the forest for the trees and therefore few advised their clients to sell. 90% of them are monkey see, monkey do empty suits that watch graphs without the slightest idea (or care) what are the real forces behind the changes. Show me a broker that loves sports and detests world affairs and I’ll show you an empty suit.

      I know the Federal Reserve knows exactly what it is doing. I’m just not implying it’s in our best interests. If I could see the storm coming it’s impossible for them not to see it especially because they are in the very center (or damn close to it) of it’s cause.

      Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.

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    78. “If it wasn’t clear up until today, it should be now. Nothing the government tells us can be trusted. They will say anything and do anything to avoid panic. But despite their “best” efforts they cannot stop the inevitable. Rest assured, panic is coming.”

      True. Sad, but very true.

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    79. Oleguy says:

      Hell I am not going ot let this shit affect me. I keep on going and could give a rats ass about it. I always knew it was a lie. So they pass this stuff. Next year they will scrap it they always do.

      Learn a darn skill so you can produce something if the shit actually hits the fan. I am prepared and will do my best in this climate to continue to make a living and invest the best I can. Preparing yourself mentally and with goods using dollars is the smart thing to do right now.

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    80. grayfoxgreen says:

      Hello People!
      Just a short note…
      As Oleguy said,having a skilled trade might be the BEST investment one could make.When Germany collapsed in the 1920-1930 era,traders and spectaculars and “investment bankers” were ruined(you noting the way Goldie Skeies and their Ilk are ruining our financial system?They were the root cause back then!).Meanwhile SKILLED tradesmen never skipped a beet.Of course when Hitler and the Nazis took power….
      Best to all
      GFG

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