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    Remembering the Best Of Us

    Mac Slavo
    May 30th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (146)
    Read by 49 people

    On Memorial day, while millions of Americans head for outings with friends and family, few will really take the time to remember those who died fighting for our freedoms. Fewer still will consider what it is inside of a person that drives them to put aside and sacrifice their hopes and dreams so that future generations can live in a world free of tyranny and oppression. Regardless of the underlying reasons for war, those who have braved these most unimaginable horrifying conditions that man has ever conjured must be commended and remembered for their dedication to a cause greater than themselves.

    In his most recent Woodpile Report Ol’ Remus writes a must-read missive on Liberty and how societies have come to lose it, in most cases because good men did nothing. He puts forth a cautionary tale of the dangers of losing those men and women who are first to volunteer their lives for the benefit of the rest of us.

    From Ol’ Remus at The Woodpile Report:

    TL Davis at Washington Rebel speaks to those who believe it’s time to put their toes across the line4GW-style in this articleThe Price of Propriety. But have a care. Remus offers a couple of thoughts. Take from them what you will. First, he cites England as a cautionary tale. It became the sorry, wussified place it is because the best of them were lost in the two world wars. Don’t misunderstand, brave soldiers and sailors and airmen returned from those wars, true warriors in the highest tradition of British arms. No man, ally or enemy, could say otherwise. Their adversaries over the millennia, from Agricola to Rommel, speak of their valor.

    But the ones of whom Remus speaks are those few who were first off the mark, first to accept unreasonable risk, first to fall, and so their line was preferentially extinguished. Such men are born as they are. They’re one of the binaries of humanity, one is such a man or one is not such a man. There is no crossing the divide by any amount of training or will. No nation can lose these men in the numbers little England lost them and overcome future challenges to liberty, they’re too rare, almost a species apart. It is upon these men the fate of liberty relies in peacetime as well. Those few among us must prudently use that which is within them lest the fate of all shift fatally for their absence.

    -The Woodpile Report (Week of May 23, 2011)

    We recommend to all of our readers that you take the time to visit The Woodpile Report every week, as you will be hard pressed to find such enlightening and insightful discussion on matters of economy, politics, history, and society.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 49 people
    Date: May 30th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    146 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Gods Creation says:

      The only army to fight for freedom since the Revolution was the Confederate States of America. All other soldiers in all other wars were pawns of the corporation.

      I remember them sadly for they were so deceived as to die for for something so sinister in the belief they were doing good.

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      • NO FAIR! I was going to say that!!!

        Oh, well. Just “ditto” then.

        ;)

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        • S T F U says:

          Whose freaking freedom were they fighting for? All those slaves, surely… W T F are you talking about, I doubt you even know. Have you ever fought for freedom, or do you just say imbecilic things on the internet?

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          • S T F U says:

            Moderators: You are letting this website go downhill fast with every post you allow guys like this to make.

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          • Apparently you havent done you study of history, from the view of men who were alive at the time of slavery.

            Read Democracy In America by Alex de Tocqueville. This book was published in 1855 and had its beginning in 1832.

            From a man who was alive at that time, and not hindered by nationality, Alex clearly points out that slavery was something that even the Confederates didnt want. But the North kept pushing all of the slaves to the south, due to a law which made the northeners give up slavery, forcing the southeners to deal with exactly what they didnt want either; slavery, or from a racial standpoint, like the north, blacks.

            Expand your mind and read some history from the men that were there at the time slavery, before you make yourself look like an imbecile.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Err, Alexis de Tocqueville was working with outside information, which includes rumors, unsubstantiated posturings in smoking parlors, and more than a touch of yellow journalism. You also took him a bit out of context.

            If the CSA (and states thereof) didn’t want slavery, then kindly explain the Fugitive Slave Act (pushed for by Southern congress-critters), “Bleeding Kansas” and the like.

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      • Confused says:

        Whose freedoms were the Confederates fighting for? All those slaves, surely…. Comment makes no sense.

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      • Sick and Tired says:

        It really is too bad that “The Greatest Generation” – that of my grandfather, gave birth to so many brainless, idiotic, drug-addicted, complacent, self-indulging, spineless, self-centered, people who take no action but to wine, moan and complain about everything. I can not wait for the people aged 50 to 65 to get out of office, off the internet and out of the workplace. Unfortunately all their kids are even worse…

        There comes a point when counter culture becomes the norm, and when one feels a need to rebel, little option remains but to embrace that ideology which originally represented the status quo. Watch out for the big circles.

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        • Some body says:

          The guy telling the truth always gets hit the hardest because everyone else’s lives are holding up a lie. God isn’t going to pat you on the back and lie to you after you’re dead.

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        You really are the #1 moron here.

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    2. RICH says:

      They are fighting for WHAT FREEDOMS ?? Watch the video of Adam loosen vs. The man and tell me about freedoms ! They are fighting for the corporatocracy only and to be used as tools to enslave humanity !

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    3. HARRY says:

      What a sheep this guy is, all soldiers are used for corporate profit, we have not been attacked by anyone but our own govt, only from the inside will we fall and fall we will.

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    4. Anonymous says:

      Nei, I’m glad I don’t “have to speak” old German. I was not deceived. Speak for yourself but I understand where you are at. Have you toured Libya, Sicily, France, Germany? Been to an overseas cemetary to pay respect for a few Americans?

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    5. wardoc says:

      All the poor idiots whose idiot parents encouraged them to go and “fight for freedom,” are to be pittied on this holiday. They are too stupid to realize that they are simply fighting for corporate interests, and nothing else.
      Their parents need to understand that their kids died not for freedom, democracy, and all the other euphymistic concepts….. but for oil, pure and simple. Thier kids died for oil, or access to oil. We should all remember that as we drive to the mall or to the memorial day celebration, or to the local Burger King; each soldier died for about a gallon of gasoline; how heroic!!!!!. How nice !!! Be proud of your son, he allowed you to go to the mall one more time!!!!!

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      • Last Chance says:

        I hope there is a draft. I hope you get drafted. I hope you are forced to serve your country (since you apparently wouldn’t by choice). I hope you come home, safe and sound. I hope you learn from your experience. I hope you are so embarrassed by what you’ve said here today, Memorial Day, that you live in shame. I hope you apologize to any widow, child, father, mother, brother, sister of a fallen Soldier that you happen to meet for your comments. I hope they spit in your face.

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        Go back to the hospital.

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    6. SmokinOkie says:

      Here’s a story for you.–
      A man had 2 sons. Son 1 joined the army at age 18 just after Pearl harbor. Army records verify that he saw fierce action in Italy and Germany and risked his life to save others on several occasions. He was awarded many medals, the last being the Medal Of Honor. He got that one posthumously. His parents buried him on what would have been his 22nd birthday. Many of his army buddies sent condolences to the parents, testifying to his integrity as a man, his loyalty to friends, and his bravery. The parents had one other son, a few years younger.(and a daughter much younger)
      Son 2 grew up and went to college, graduating about 1949 or 1950. He married and raised a family. He knew all about politics and the corporate scams in charge of most of the world. He understood the wastefulness of his brothers death. That the war was very much about corp greed and control and that Hitler never could have threatened America directly. The children of son 2 grew up in the late 1960s and early 70s. They listened to rock and roll, smoked dope and went to ‘protests’ over VietNam. Son 2 was proud of his kids and , while he didn’t approve of much of their lifestyle, he was glad he had raised free thinking individuals. He once told his own Dad as much. His Dad, who was now in his 80s, responded:
      “Son, you know I love you every bit as much as I did your brother. What you don’t know is that the night before he left for basic training we had a long talk. He told me he knew we could have and should have avoided that war. He told me he understood things about international greed and corporate manipulations. Things most Americans were totally unaware of, and things that you didn’t learn til many years later. He even asked me not to vote for FDR if he ran again. And you know I didn’t.
      “He also told me that he HAD to go. There was something inside him that simply had to respond to the call to defend the liberties and future freedom of the people and country he loved. Even as he realized the justification for the war was not entirely righteous. He knew all this and he went anyway. He had to serve and he had to give. That’s just the kind of man he was inside.
      “You, on the other hand, were much too young to go and your mother and I were glad. Your life was, and still is, precious to us. But look at what you’ve accomplished. You have a nice house, plenty of money and all of the ‘American dream.’ And you have 3 children that have grown up thinking so freely that they don’t know anything about responsibility. You spoiled them. And now your own grandchildren are fed with food stamps, ill-mannered, misbehaving and filling their minds with garbage from radio and tv. Yes, you understand perfectly the evil machinations of the corrupt powers of the world, but have you ever known what it is to truly give of yourself for something greater than yourself? Have you ever known true personal sacrifice? Your brother never had the chance to marry or have kids. You are the only male left to your mother and I, and you carry on the family name. I just pray to God that at least one of your grandsons has that special genetic link to your brother. In his short life, he accomplished more than most of us ever will. He GAVE of himself.”

      The story is true. I know because I was there. My mother was the younger sister to the two brothers. The quotes may not be verbatim but the meaning is exactly as I heard it.

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      • Okie, thank you for taking the time to share…. This is exactly what I was trying to get at… Very few of us are really ready to put it on the line when it counts.

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      • If no one stands up for what they believe in, then those with power and might can just take what they want.
        When that young man died, he GAVE himself for what he believed. There is no greater power on earth than that. If you are christian then you know what that means. Jesus gave us a pathway to walk and showed us that sacrifice and truth have great value. All of the young men and women who go to war for their nation, do not go to support the liars. They go for their parents, their 4th grade teachers, their peaceful neighborhoods and all that they love in life. They stand in the door and bar the dark from comming closer to those they love.
        God Bless Them All.

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      • Stealth says:

        Thank you sir, that is why I joined too. For that “defining moment” in my life…how could I look at my son and not say at least I tried. Yes I understand the the bigger picture but reguardless of my misgivings I just had to go.

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    7. Anonymous says:

      Welcome back Okie. Would enjoy meeting you & shaking your hand while looking you in your eyes. Burned a very THICK ribeye this weekend, home made ice cream with cherry pie.

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    8. James Woroble Jr says:

      Let’s not forget this Memorial Day the Navy boys God’s self-proclaimed pet(Z) murdered on the U.S.S. Liberty.

      http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=uss+liberty&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&biw=853&bih=383&source=hp&aq=0l&aqi=&aql=&oq=USS+Libibert&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a34f7f1872f21971

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    9. John in Philadelphia says:

      Spent a good portion of Memorial DAy watching the John Adams documentary series. It captures the bravery of those who were faced with overwhelming odds and who chose to sacrifice comfort and security for the hope of retaining liberty. As we encounter an emerging new world order designed to disenfranchise our natural, inaleable rights we too will be required to stand up and fight and sacrifice some of what we have for future generations.
      No line in American history captures the essence of this idea more fully than the words of Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty or give me death.”

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      • John in Philadelphia says:

        On several occasions after posting a comment to this site I encounter the following message:

        “Your comment is awaiting moderation”

        I am not sure what this means. Would someone care to explain? Thanks. Much appreciated!

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          I can s’plain some of it:

          Sometimes it waits if you post from a different IP address than you had posted from before.

          If you’re posting for the very first time, it’ll hold up just to avoid posting any spams.

          Anything with a URL in it may get held up.

          Not sure if there’s keywords or not that may trigger it (certain profane words, etc).

          Otherwise, no biggie. :)

          (nope, I don’t run the site, just regurgitating a previous explanation with some guesses as well).

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          • John in Philadelphia says:

            Thanks Odd Questioner. Thought I was not executing the reply protocol properly and could not understand the delays encountered. No biggie? Great.

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    10. El Cid-77 says:

      For those of you who realize the meaning of this day of rememberance, I salute you. For the rest of you self-interested, holyer-than-thou, no hope in humanity hippocrites I say that you should be ashamed of youself. The ONLY reason that you have the ability to respond to this article is because of the countless Americans who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I sympathize to your disgust at the direction our country has gone, I have felt the same way for the enitre thirteen years I served in uniform. I never let my feelings or knowledge of the rampant corruption of our way of life stop me from doing what I thought was right; never once can I remember being “ignorant” or “too stupid to realize” the circumstances I was in. Stop critisizing those who would would hope to make a difference by giving of themselves, as you clearly have no idea about how to be a decent human being. Maybe we would all be in better shape if we could stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats and get our shit together!

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    11. In that case, Mac, we salute them, one and all, for their courage, their bravery and their sacrifice. If, in fact, it is the thought that counts, they count a lot!

      Really, in disgust I think of how our brave soldiers are used as a tool for the corporation’s gain. Not for liberty. Not for freedom. Not for humanitarianism. Though, in some very small amount, those may have been accomplished. (probably more by accident than by purpose)

      When will our military do its duty? They should be protecting America and the Constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic. They seem to have the foreign down almost too well. The domestic, uh, not so much.

      So, if it is in fact the thought that counts, even though many have died in vain and their sacrifice meaningless, they meant well. The thought of that angers me even more. Good men. Brave men. Well meaning men. Deceived in a manner so as to waste their lives for what? Evil Men’s profit? Tell me it doesn’t make your blood boil!!! It sure does mine.

      But, it doesn’t matter. The uSA that was may be gone forever. Nobody understands and nobody cares. Your best bet is to find a safe haven, a place, as state and an county that values freedom over safety and liberty over entitlement. Buy some land, raise your kids, pray to God that your non-participation isn’t noticed lest TPTB swoop in and punish you.

      Sorry to be so gloomy. I’ve been accused by several people of being “obsessed” with liberty and the police state. …most notably, my wife. Just go along. Live your life. Stop trying to fight it. I’m sorry, but I just can’t. Someday, someone will step up to the plate. Some day, when they take it all away, the whole country will just lose it. It could be stopped now, but people just won’t do it.

      Few care. The few that do care don’t understand what GC and I know. Our numbers are just too few. The only hope we have is that FedCo will murder itself, leave us the smoldering hull. Then, the process of tyranny starts allover again with the spoiled, the heartless, the narrowminded and the stupid.

      See, nobody today wants freedom for anyone else. They only want freedom for themselves. They want everyone to do it like they want to do things and, if you don’t want to do it like that, well, “There oughta be a law!!!” Nobody understands real freedom or real liberty. To them, their form or tyranny is freedom.

      …and this is how we end it. TPTB have us so fragmented, so freedom-selfcentered that nobody can bear to let anyone do as they will.

      If you don’t think men should do drugs, then, don’t do drugs.
      If you think guns are bad, don’t possess one.
      If you think people shouldn’t cut down trees, don’t cut down *YOUR* trees.
      If you think sexual promiscuity is bad, don’t be promiscuous.
      If you think abortion is murder, don’t perform or support abortion.
      …and if you want to lower the crime rate, stop passing laws that make victimless activity a crime!

      Our country is so screwed up, so brainwashed as to what “freedom” is that we are so far from it I fear we’ll never get back.

      I sit here today praying that the EMP or the Deep Impact or the Currency Crisis will hit TOMORROW. I hope for it. I long for it. Maybe in our poverty and lack of modern conveiniences we will someday, again, know what freedom is and liberty will win the day.

      Until then, I don’t want to be “obsessed” and upset the sheople. Stoopid, stoopid sheople.

      All the wars that the brave sacrificed their lives and families for were setups for one single purpose: profit. Elite profit. You may have thought you were fighting for freedom. You were fighting for profit. You may have thought you were fighting to free a people, you were only fighting to economically enslave them. TPTB would be so upset if the little people just refused to use the expensive toys of the elite to kill each other. That would truly be a game changer. Every soldier, every tank driver, every gunner, turn off the machine, unload your rifle, refuse to pull the pin on the grenade and instead, go back and research why you are really putting the father on the other side of the ditch in your crosshairs. You may think you’re sacrificing something for the greater good. You’re sacrificing, true, but you’re only feeding the beast.

      JUST STOP.

      (I apologize. That was quite a rant. Feel free to re-use it somewhere more effectively.)

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      • Stealth says:

        Your so right Net.
        It has been a bitter pill to swallow. I ‘am one of those Father’s that went to war thinking I could do good, that I could make a difference but sadly I can no longer support that charade even to myself.

        No one joins the military to become a pawn for the corporate elite it just worked out that way for me…at times it can be very confusing and disheartening but I will learn and drive on for my family.

        The only true waste is if we cannot learn from it…right?

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    12. El Cid-77 says:

      I almost forgot (being phsically disabled sometimes taxes the brain), the placeholder argument. For every American in uniform today, there is another that is left to persue whatever life they wish. A standing Military esablishment is neccesary so that the 98% of the country NOT INVOLVED is free to persue whatever path they wish. I don’t care how bad the spoiled brats of our country think things are now, they are still able to make the choice about which path they want to take. So, for those of you that think I and my Brothers in Arms are “stupid”, “uninformed”, or (here’s the one that really burns my ass) “sheep”, think about what would happen if every service member went on strike today (as seems to be the trend in our country when people don’t get their way). I did’t choose when and where I was born, but I did choose a career path that most would not.

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    13. James Woroble Jr says:

      War Is A Racket

      A speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

      Smedley Butler

      WAR is a racket. It always has been

      It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

      A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

      In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

      How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

      Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

      And what is this bill?

      This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

      For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

      Again they are choosing sides. France and Russia met and agreed to stand side by side. Italy and Austria hurried to make a similar agreement. Poland and Germany cast sheep’s eyes at each other, forgetting for the nonce [one unique occasion], their dispute over the Polish Corridor.

      The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other’s throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people – not those who fight and pay and die – only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.

      There are 40,000,000 men under arms in the world today, and our statesmen and diplomats have the temerity to say that war is not in the making.

      Hell’s bells! Are these 40,000,000 men being trained to be dancers?

      Not in Italy, to be sure. Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in “International Conciliation,” the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

      “And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace… War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it.”

      [CONT]
      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4377.htm

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    14. SD Mule says:

      Thank you, NetRanger. I could not agree with you more. The definition of freedom is difficult for most to comprehend.

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    15. nice post Net, and I agree with you and GC

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    16. VRF says:

      Im just going to pop on here and say, thanks to those who served, and gave the ultimate sacrifice.

      I am from a family where I have members that have served and survived, and some that served and did not come back as they left, and some that did not come back at all.

      My prayers go out to Ray Webber..USMC SpFce..Viet Nam, Robert Clemmons US Army ..Omaha Beach survivor , since passed ..WW2, James R Wright..US infantry Confederate Army..There are a few more, but i dont knoow thier service, or affiliation for absolution

      I also know that they felt that they were making a difference the only way a small town boy thinks they can in those times.

      We live in different times now, I was almost this close to going into the US airforce, but some of my views of what was going on back when I was able to join, prevented me, along with needing corrective vision beyond what a fighter pilot would be concitered ready for duty.

      Our military has become a world wide policing force..everywhere this country has a financial interest..in product, natural or man made..our military is there.
      It became very appearent to me, that all our military has become is Government Goons from the Dark Suits of this countries establishment…Puppets if you will, just like the POTUS..all of them manipulated by a Game of chess..from the TPTB

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    17. Odd Questioner says:

      No matter the motives of the leaderships (and Heaven knows there isn’t a single angel among them), one thing is perfectly clear:

      I hope and pray quite fervently for the men (and now women) who stand up and take the same oath I took decades ago, to wit:

      “I {name} do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

      Say what you want about the leadership – millions of men and women stand in uniform to insure that you can continue to do so (and I have a rather huge pile of my own invective on that matter, starting with that narcissistic, self-serving utopia-seeking failure of an asshat running the White House).

      Forget the motives and BS that have touched off various wars – have a moment for the jarheads, wingnuts, swabbies, and coasties that now fill the same boots that many of us here have once walked in. The folks who can look at a Drill Sergeant screaming obscenities at some poor recruit, and can’t help but smile. The memory of long-assed nights spent either bored stiff, or scared stiff, or both. The endless bureaucratic garbage that seemed to never end. All the crap that all together, made for the greatest adventure in many a young man’s life.

      s’all I’m saying on the subject. God Bless ‘em all.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        err, heh – Mrs. Q, an Army veteran, read over my shoulder and demanded to know why I forgot to mention props to the grunts. After gently reminding her (in my best USAF-induced arrogance) that grunts are to take orders and keep silent, she whacked me upside the head with a couch pillow, called me some things I’d rather not reprint, and to help make up for it, I figured I’d post a separate shout out to the past and present members of the United States Army. :)

        Cheers!

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    18. GA Mom says:

      I’m glad we’ve got so many patriotic men & women serving in the US military and I thank them for their service.

      As our nation continues to spiral downhill in so many ways and we continue to split so drastically in philosophy (those who value hard work, freedom & independence vs the moocher welfare crowd), I truly see civil war/divide coming our way. Is there any other way out of this mess other than a (hopefully) peaceful split?

      I believe most of our military will choose the freedom & independence side and come live with us. The socialists & communists can live in welfare “Heaven” on their side (for about 6 months) and then it would be a living Hell.

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    19. Last Chance says:

      I am concerned, now, after reading these responses. Shame on all of you who would speak negatively of those who died to keep you free, to keep you from speaking German or Japanese, the Men and Women Who died to keep you from becoming practically enslaved by our enemies of the past, to ensure your right to bear arms, and died even to make it possible for you to post deplorable comments on the internet. These people, YOUR people died in Korea and Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism – a Godless mental illness, which could have spread all over the world, and you could be speaking Chinese, eating nothing but rice, and wearing a gray pocketless suit everywhere you go (that is if they clothed you at all). I find you disgusting, pathetic, and useless. Have you even served your country? Or do you think only of yourself. Of all the days in the year, you chose this one to bad mouth the soldiers who have died FOR YOU. I personally question the patriotism of any man who would act in such a way. I say Go to Hell if you bad mouth a fallen US Soldier on Memorial Day! Or better yet go live Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, North Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan!

      The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, my country, your country (unfortunately for the rest of us) and the country OUR men and women died for may not be perfect, but when was the last time OUR Soldiers committed mass murder of civilians, mass rapes of civilians, biological experimentation on civilians? Exactly how many Soldiers end up in elected office at the national level “selling out” to big corp? Conversely, how many end up raising a family, living a normal AMERICAN lifestyle? Your argument has its time and place – ANY TIME AND ANY PLACE BUT THE DAY WE SET ASIDE TO HONOR THOSE WHO HAVE DIED IN SERVICE FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

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    20. Hey last chance, take a closer and very detailed look at what our founders thought about getting involved in world affairs and alliances. Slow down on the propaganda koolaid, that red ring can become permanent

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      • Last Chance says:

        OK Here goes, this first one is just for you, fitting for your opinion of Memorial Day.

        George Washington
        “Nothing is a greater stranger to my breast, or a sin that my soul more abhors, than that black and detestable one, ingratitude.”

        Thomas Paine
        “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”

        John Adams
        “National defense is one of the cardinal duties of a statesman.”

        Samuel Adams
        “Courage, then, my countrymen, our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty.”

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        You voted for BO right?

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    21. Daisy says:

      I’m horrified and embarrassed at those here who are bashing the military. Whatever the goals of the puppetmasters, the goals of the soldiers – the ones putting their lives on the line – are definitely going to be other things than oil and corporate greed.

      For the risks they take, for defending our Consititution, for leaving their families so other folks don’t have to, these brave men and women deserve nothing more than our support and appreciation.

      I send my thanks to the wonderful folks in the US military, wherever in the world they may be waving our flag.

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      • Daisy, they certainly do put their lives on the line.

        But, please cite just one example of them “defending our Constitution”?

        Anybody got one for me? They sure aren’t defending the invasion from the south or the north. Where are they? They’re not arresting the president, the ultimate Constitutional Assaulter. Cite just one example, please. I bet you can’t.

        Now, understand, I am not anti-military. But, the way our military has been tooled, fooled and tricked, is, well, just atrocious. At some point you would think somebody would have said no. But, when they do, they get sent to the stockade and left to rot.

        Dissent costs money! If we have people stopping the bombs and the shells, well, the government won’t need contracts and need to spend all the freshly printed money.

        Get a clue people: military expenditures is just another way they destroy our currency. The money going to the military isn’t tax money, its inflated money.

        Once you get a grip on what the state is, the government, you start to understand why they do what they do and why they are so adamant about spending money in certain places.

        Just remember, The US Government is not a government, its a corporation. How would you like GE or Wal-Mart commanding our military? GUESS WHAT?! Thats more or less what they are doing. This is why the military doesn’t “defend the constitution”. The Constitution is the enemy of the corporation. It limits the power of the corporation. You don’t defend your enemy, you decimate it.

        …and they are doing a pretty good job.

        Get a clue and wake up. Your praise and admiration for the military is misplaced because you don’t understand who their commanders are. Sure, the individuals are honorable but, can an individual be honorable when the chain of command is dishonorable? Maybe if they are decieved. Were the truth to be told, the CEO of the United States Federal Corporation, Barack Obama, is not eligible, Constitutionally, to be “Commander In Chief” any more than the CEO or GE or the CEO of Ford. (Less, actually, because I think both GE and Ford’s CEOs are actually Natural Born citizens, Barack is not.)

        So, why is a military that is supposed to be protecting our Constitution following the commands of someone who is not eligible to be the Commander in Chief? There is “protecting” and there is “destroying”. Which term would fit the current situation?

        Of course most of you will dismiss this and go back to your jobs and your previous way of thinking, however, as Winston Churchhill said, “The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” and “Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.”

        It has been said something like, “If you speak English instead of German, thank a veteran.” Looking at the official history one would agreed, however, if you look at the FACTS and the TRUTH you find that Hitler was provoked by a series of false flags and lies. Oh, he was a bad guy, don’t get me wrong, but sometimes I wonder just how “bad” he really was. Certainly he’s been made out to be very bad. Just like Israel is made out to be “good”. (Oh, and as a side note, did any of you realize that there were *TEN*MILLION* Christians executed for their faith by Hitler in WWII? Where did our memorial and “holocaust museums” go?)

        The fact of the matter is we’ve been lied to so much most of us don’t even have a slight grasp on the real truth. We only have a grasp on what we think is the truth. The real truth requires a much more detailed knowledge of what happened. Things start to not make sense and then, *BAM*! you find out why.

        Study. Learn. Question. …or not. I guarantee you won’t be happy once you know the truth. It will eat at you and eat at you until one day, you’re like me: Solidly sure of NOTHING but ON SINGLE THING:

        HUMANS LIE AND THEY ARE DAMNED GOOD AT CONVINCING PEOPLE OF COMPLETE FALSEHOODS.

        Perfect example: a few posts back someone said something about the Civil War (also call the War Between The States). First off, it wasn’t civil and it wasn’t between “The States”. It was brutal not civil. It was between two countries, not “states”. …and anyone, ANYONE who thinks the Civil War was started because of slavery is an idiot. They taught us all that in high school but it is completely false. If it was about slavery then A) Why was the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the states SOUTH of the Mason-Dixon line? and B) Why was the issue of slavery not hardly even mentioned until the last year of the war?

        Just a little history lesson for you, there. Schisms. Look for them. They indicate that there is a hidden agenda and that things are not as they seem. …and the US Military is the most schizmatic organization on the planet. One has to ask, “Why?”

        But, I must bring this to an end. I am playing on Mac’s good graces for letting me spew this stuff. I really wish I could admire and respect the military. I do respect the men, however sheoplistic they are. They were dedicated, but, in the end, dedicated to what?

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        • Tom says:

          How do you support our Constitution NR?

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          Some points of order:

          re: “But, please cite just one example of them “defending our Constitution”?”

          I can give you multiples:

          * The Philippine islands were officially US Territory during WWII, and the Japanese conquered it during that time.

          * They also conquered two islands in Alaska (Attu and Kiska)

          * Hawaii was a US Territory (mind you, not yet a state) when Pearl Harbor was attacked.

          * US shipping was routinely sunk by German U-Boats along the US East and Gulf Coasts before Pearl Harbor.

          Got plenty more from that era if you want ‘em. :)

          As for assertions that the military has been somehow “fooled” into going to Iraq/Afghanistan? Not how it works. If you want the war to end, you have to get rid of the politicians who authorized it, and replace them with those who want it ended.

          …that sort of requires an active participation by the masses, I know, but that’s how it is supposed to work.

          The Civil War… complex as Hell, but there’s some bits you missed:

          Slavery *was* mentioned publicly, and long before the Civil War. Look up the Clay Compromise (or “Compromise of 1850″), “Bleeding Kansas”, Harper’s Ferry, The Fugitive Slave Act, and read the entire Lincoln-Douglas debate. *All* of this pre-dates the Civil War. Slavery was *very* much the issue and the catalyst.

          The reason the Emancipation Proclamation never applied to Northern states was simple: The Northern states *had already abolished slavery*. Doesn’t make any sense to proclaim slaves “free” in states that had already outlawed it entirely. :?

          Now notice that there were underlying conditions that would easily create a schism between North and South, which fostered slavery as an issue: Northern states already had mega-cheap labor in the form of Irish immigrants, and their industrial base made slaves not only obsolete, but a fiscal burden as slaves aged and/or became injured/crippled (it’s easier to fire them). The South was mostly agrarian and somewhat sparsely populated, and there, slaves were practically needed by the planters in order to operate at any kind of profit. Caring for the infirm and aged was not a problem for the planters, given the unique circumstances at that time.

          On either side, once the balloon went up in 1861, it became either a case of federal survival (North), or a case of defending one’s home and family from pillage and conquest (South) – but never delude yourself by claiming that slavery was no longer the base issue.

          There was some massive (and certainly damaging) fallout – States’ Rights were largely abrogated to the federal government. Reconstruction was a joke (Lincoln originally and famously stated that it should proceed “with malice towards none”, but his assassination in 1865 and a weak successor (Andrew Johnson) allowed some rather unsavory politicians to economically rape the South, knocking it back progress-wise for nearly a century.

          My ancestors fought mostly on the Grey team (Arkansas, Tennessee), so please do not point and somehow shout that I’m some sort of ‘Yankee’ apologist for having to explain actual history here. That said, I’m certainly not going to sit around and deny what was plainly at issue during that time.

          As a side note, yes – 10m Christians were killed by Hitler. Look up the history of Pope John Paul II’s life… he had things pretty bad during WWII, and did his seminary studies in secret, lest the Nazis pack him off to a concentration camp.

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          • OQ,

            You are quite wise! Thanks for the info. But, are you sure the northern states had actually abolished slavery? …I mean, as a point of law? (…the occasional rebel practicing it anyway, not withstanding…)

            Yes, I know it was mentioned publicly it just wasn’t the main issue. It was the financial aspects that look like (an the secessionist policies) that really got it started.

            Can we get dates of states’ abolishment legislation? I dont think your statement will bear out under examination. Sure, they DISCOURAGED it but was it truly, lawfully abolished? I don’t think so. I’ll have to do some research. …or you could. If you know any references offhand.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Actually, I can:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_and_free_states#Northern_slave_states

            See also the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution, which settled the matter once and for all.

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    22. HARRY says:

      I’m horrified and embarrassed at those who support what our evil country is doing to the rest of the world, based on lies. And to the sheep that support this military occupation, shame on you and what would jesus say about it??

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      • Daisy says:

        My point wasn’t really meant to be a theological argument but if you want to bring Jesus into this, I’m game.

        I’m not Jesus, so I can only guess what he’d say, Harry. A hint comes from Romans 13:1, where he said, “Let every soul be subject to the higher powers.” He insisted that his followers keep themselves subject to the laws of the land and those in authority. If there is sin happening, the sin belongs to those sending our men and women and providing the orders, not the men and women following the orders. In Matthew 8, he said that he had seen no greater faith than that of the centurion.

        Faith is a personal matter – if a soldier conducts himself honorably, I doubt that Jesus has a bone to pick with him.

        As for sheep, Harry, are you blindly following or do you have some biblical evidence to back up your blame-casting? I doubt it, if your book reads the same as mine.

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        • Gods Creation says:

          Romans 13:1 is what Paul said, not Jesus, and it extended to governments established by Men, not corporations. God did not create corporations and they are not put in place by God.

          The govcorps that exist today are fictional in nature, as there are no Men to hold to account. They are not a product of Gods will, but a product of Mans evil and the defiance of Gods will.

          Paul said “Let every soul be subject to the higher authority”, which can only be God, or an earthly government of Men chosen by God.

          Under no circumstances can a corporation created by greedy men seeking to escape responsibility for criminal activity be associated with a government of Men chosen by God.

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          • Excellent post GC, you said it much better than I could of

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          • Last Chance says:

            Are you and all those you know and love self-employed, self-sufficient, and so self-righteous? Where do you think your computer and the internet come from? Where does your paycheck come from? Those despicable, greedy, corporations create jobs which people work by choice – no one forces anyone to work in this country, bondage and slavery do not exist. If you don’t want a home, a car, a computer, etc you don’t have to work for those evil greedy corps. Or maybe you just want all that nice stuff for free? That’s it, you are some welfare recipient who has been given everything your whole life at our expense – why else would you be able to keep posting at 9:25 AM on a Tuesday.

            What you call “greed” I call motivation and initiative. Get off your butt and do something beneficial to society, not just beneficial to yourself.

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          • heterosexual FLAMER says:

            God’s Creaton, who is your internet provider and how do you pay for it, check, money order, quick withdrawal or cc? We (us) (my roommate & I) are getting tired of your corp. I’ll bet you have a Piled High & Deep certificate and you are FINE. Come on admit it, I just did! Waiting for your direct answer. You sound like a used car commercial during the election season on a Sunday morning early with an info-commercial while BJ is “thinking” that somebody somewhere sometime is going to have an earth quake.

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          • heterosexual FLAMER says:

            That was a country western song wasn’t it?

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          • For once I think you are right hertosexual FLAMER. We’re (my roommate & I) are with you Daisy.

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        • BlackSheep says:

          Romans 13:1 sounds a lot like the Fed and their Interstate Commerce Clause… But I guess it isn’t any worse than how people think they are “driving” in a car all the time, when what they are doing is really TRAVELING.. Driving means something completely different and not the same… LOL…

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      • Gods Creation says:

        Jesus would not know them

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    23. Anonymous says:

      “starting with that narcissistic, self-serving utopia seeking failure of an asshat running the White House”

      Thanks Odd! There’s hero’s all around us and I know just “a few”. I vote for my boss. He doesn’t make it many times, but I still vote for him.

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    24. Dave says:

      Am I the only one that wants to kick in their screen when they hear “they’re fighting for our freedoms”?
      Horseshit!, we’ve lost freedoms ever since “they started fighting for our freedoms” on 911.

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      • Last Chance says:

        Dave, you do understand that it is Congress who passed the Patriot Act. Lawmakers are separate from the military…that there is a Legislative branch who is elected by the People (to include you). If you have a problem with the country’s LAWS you have a problem with the people who make the laws, and by extension you have a problem with the people around you, not the military.

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        I always knew you were a Dim.

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    25. HARRY says:

      They are actually fighting for our Enslavement
      1 We have the Largest Prison Population per capita of any country in the world
      2 Cameras up everywhere in the us, streets buildings, walmarts look like maximum security prisons
      3 all phone calls, emails, texts and faxes monitored, tracked, traced and databased
      4tsa modern day nazi brown shirts, sticking their hands down childrens and everyones pants, even the nazis did not do that
      5 public protests squashed look at recent video on u tube of dancing at the jefferson memorial, jefferson is rolling in his grave today
      6indiana passes law no warrant needed to kick in doors for illegal searches
      Never in history have we been so enslaved and its going to get worse

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      • Harry,

        Wow! Sounds like at any time the US Military will swoop in and “Defend The Constitution”. (Isn’t that right Daisy?)

        Attacks from Judges.

        Attacks from President.

        Attacks from Democrat statist politicians.

        Attacks from Republican statist politicians.

        Now, if the Military starts getting involved in shutting down *THAT* garbage, I’m signing up, ASAP!

        …but, for some reason, I’m thinking we won’t hear a peep about it. More like a “bleet”.

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      • Last Chance says:

        1) DOJ – not the military
        2) DHS/local law enforcement – not the military
        3) DHS – not the military
        4) you said yourself – TSA – not the military
        5) National Park Police – Not the military
        6) Indiana legislature – not the military

        Any questions – do you even know what Memorial Day is for?

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        Get a hair cut hairy.

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    26. Anonymous says:

      I can see clearly the good people here. God bless my friends in the military.

      Thanks Daisy, thanks Last Chance, thanks GA Mom, thanks Odd Questioner, thanks VRF, thanks El Cid-77, thanks John in Philadelphia, thanks Okie, & thanks Mac for supporting the military.

      ***** NetRanger, you surprised me the most. *****

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    27. my parents creation says:

      I guess good people are sheeple who tow the party line, the ones that tell the truth are now the bad people, congrats anonymous at 951, you have now been brainwashed by the msm Bravo, they have truely won this battle, who will stand up and take back this country?

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    28. Daisy says:

      Defense of the Constitution is an ideal that members of the military vow to uphold. The point here is not what the leaders use the military for – it’s what the military members themselves sign up to do. Those enlisted men and women are the people whom we honor and celebrate on Memorial Day.

      I don’t think I can really state it much more clearly than that. At least not politely.

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    29. Rachel says:

      I feel sorry for those in the military today. Many are in as a result of an economic draft or that carrot of a college credit dangled before thier faces.

      there is not such thing as a good war (not for us anyways) but I cannot place blame on young people in the military who have been indoctrined into the “serve your counrty” mentality. They are young, very young and grew up in an artificial world were most never saw a dead body.

      When I was 19, I joined an ambulance squad for five years. I couldn’t join the military due to my eye sight. It was the best thing I ever did. I learned everything you would learn about leadership but without the bombs.

      I would much rather these young people joined the fire department, became paramedics and volunteer. But that’s not how the world works.

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        How could you see the best thing you never did?

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        I feel sorry for you. You don’t really believe that do you? I don’t.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        @Rachel:

        You are absolutely correct, in that there is no such thing as a good war.

        As for the rest? You know what you’re buying going in. If the decades of “realism” in various war-themed movies don’t inform you of the hazards, then the oath and Boot Camp will serve as plenty of warning.

        Even in the USAF (where you would think that all is cushy), that first week of aircraft familiarization training (where you get to see some rather graphic results of being stupid around a jet) will tell you straight-up that you’re messing with dangerous stuff, and as a bonus, you get to work around it until you’re well-past the point of exhaustion. (They also have a bumper-crop of jobs that would shame a Navy SEAL (you can start with the PJs and SpecOps folks)).

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    30. A Requiem for Heroes on Memorial Day

      Brave men and women are born with sense of Honor and Duty
      Their love of family and country is inspiring truly
      When asked to fight wars whether deemed righteous or unjust
      That they do it with dignity is where they put their trust
      They leave their homes for dangerous foreign lands
      With only the memory of the last touch from a loved ones hands

      They go into harms way with an ideal to defend
      Tho’ when battle begins their only concern is for the life of a friend
      They endure hardships and anguish beyond compare
      One has to wonder if the price paid seems fair
      And when they come home from horrors untold
      They ask for nothing except to peacefully grow old

      But this day is for those who are never to return
      In their children and families a pain forever will burn
      In reverence for those of ultimate sacrifice they make
      We must never forget, a lesson of the ages we must take
      That Freedom is fragile and Liberty is never free
      The lives given to protect them, forgotten should never be

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    31. Last Chance says:

      @NetRanger, Dave, Harry, GodsCreation, and others. One has to wonder why, if you dislike America so much, you stay here? If you are so anti-America that you can’t even honor its fallen soldiers, why then do you choose to be Americans. You can renounce your citizenship and move out of the country anytime, I know I wouldn’t miss you. Or, if you want to talk about “conspiracy” and propaganda, Maybe I should ask if you are indeed Americans, or if you are posting here to promote your own propaganda. For all I know you are Chinese, Russian, Pakistani, North Korean, etc and you are posting these ridiculous things in an attempt to destabilize my country, trying to make us question our own patriotism…??? Not beyond the realm of possibility, considering your statements.

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      • PLease put the glass down…you are drunk!

        Actually it is amazing at how far gone this country is that people are so turned around and mixed up. Reminds me of the bible talking about good being called bad and bad being called good in the last days. This isn’t America anymore, hasn’t been for a long long time….you’ll get it and understand that sooner o r later, or maybe you won’t until the second after this life?? I am all American, native on dad’s side and mom’s side been here since the 1800′s. I hate what our country has become and our govt is all evil….period. Watching them is absolutely no different than watching WWF. Our military works for the corp and has been indoctrinated and dumbed down for the most part just like what our school system has done to it’s students. What most people serve today and praise is not the America that was founded by it’s forefathers, it’s a new america and the govt became a corp long long ago. GC can explain better than I. I remember reading some real good information though a while back and it all started with info about the Act of 1871

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      • Anonymous says:

        Last Chance, the group above probably wouldn’t even honor the old Honor Guard. They get upset when heterosexual FLAMER insults their thinking for a split moment but they insult their country and the people that serve or have served, while on their Memorial Day they get a day off to cry to Mac about spammers hurting their tender feelings. They remind me of “true” self centered liberals that have never served or made a difference to grow inside.

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        • Not a liberal, never got upset at the hetero flaming kid, never cried to Mac about anything other than the loss of the email notification thingy…which he won’t answer me about…hint hint. And I would consider myself a cross mutt between Libertarian and Constitutionalist.

          You remind me of a neo con republican ;-) just sayin

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          • BJ,

            I can see why some people could mistake us for liberals. Used to, years ago when I was just plain ignorant of what our government has done abroad I really believed these guys and gals were fighting for freedom. …and I saw liberals, leftists, statists, big government people denigrating and defaming our military. I was disgusted by it. After seeing Bush destroy what little Constitution we had and seeing my fellow Conservatives swallowing that crap hook line and singer (and me right along with them) I started wising up. It was finally when I got to the end of the line and I couldn’t get the fishing rod and reel down my throat that I wised up… ;)

            Most people I see anymore that praise the kind of crap we pull overseas are in one of two camps: Their NeoCons. I don’t mean they’re neo-conservative. I mean they’re newly “neo” “conned” as in tricked, etc. The other camp are the older conservatives that, while they appear to be like the NeoCons in support of the military, they are simply in denial of what the military really does today.

            Again, people, I am not downing the brave men and women that populate our services. They do their tasks with honor. I just wonder, sometimes, how ignorant you have to be to continue to be honorable with what we’re doing these days.

            Anyways, all good comments, but, here is an article I agree with, somewhat. He’s a little too eager to prosecute terrorists as criminals when criminality doesn’t really apply, internationally. Some military intervention is required at times, in my opinion, however, after an adequate dose our government sees fit to then abuse their power and continue on, ad nauseum, for other purposes. It is those other purposes that have nothing to do with honor, defense or The Constitution. Nothing. Just greed. Its disgusting.

            Take a read:

            http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=35494

            (Praise to Mac for enduring this somewhat heated back and forth. Most sites would have shut down the more controversial commentors.)

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    32. my parents creation says:

      The best part of the military ran down the leg of the statue of liberty years ago

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    33. Durango Kidd says:

      Congress honored our fallen dead last week by renewing the Patriot Act. There is nothing patriotic about the Patriot Act. It is an abomination.

      What a bunch of scum!

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    34. shooter says:

      NetRanger sez: “When will our military do its duty? They should be protecting America and the Constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic. They seem to have the foreign down almost too well. The domestic, uh, not so much.”

      What do you want, NetRanger? for the Military to cause a civil war? for them to start a coup? to burn everything down?

      I’ve Served for over 18 years, worked with Men and Women from all Branches of the Service, drank beer or booze with them, bled with them, and there’s a whole lot of life stories in my memory that I’m not going to bore the other people here with.

      You rant about the use of the Military for corporate greed-what’s your recommendation, then, for how they should be deployed? Hmmm?

      You mentioned Hitler gave the orders to kill 6 million Jews, and several million other people, would you try to stop him? He’d order you shot, and have a steak dinner.

      Some of your comments I can find partial agreement with, for the rest of your comments all I can say is go take your meds. Or pick up your rifle and step up to the line, if you feel that strongly about an Oath you never took.

      What’s your real concern? what the future could be? that America could be close to just being a chapter in a history book? are you afraid of getting old? of dying?

      Whatever your concerns are, the future is not for you or I to control. The future is going to be what it will be, so either you quit standing on both sides of the line, or shut your mouth.

      Shooter, out.

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      • Gods Creation says:

        for how they should be deployed?

        There are about 13 families that make up the Anglo elite banking establishment. That would be a good place to start.

        Eliminate the City in London (financial), the District of Columbia (military), and the Vatican (religious), and their control centers are gone.

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      • A coup, burn it all down and start over sounds about right. Unfortunately it is thee only way things would ever go back to what they were supposed to stay. However you can never go back and we are almost to the time of change Revelations talks about

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        • BJ, this has been my thoughts all along. You gotta burn it down to rebuild. But, like you, I think the end may be too near to have time to put it back together. If this is really the age of that man of perdition, well, we’re in the last few chapters of this book.

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          • Yupper……….and as to your post above (the reply button isn’t working up there??) I just wised up with in the last 6 months. It happened for me once I finally gave i to a cousin and watched some films about what a con job 9-11 was and then it all snowballed from there til here :-)
            6 Months ago I was still thinking the boogey man wants to get us, the protestors at the g-8 deserved beatings, Bush was a great Christian guy, Republicans were more right than dems….on and on and on. It has been a mind blowing 6 months to come from that to this so fast…I wonder some times what “is” true if anything in this country anymore.

            Isiaih 59:15 15 Truth is nowhere to be found,and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey. The LORD looked and was displeased that there was no justice.

            And like you I think there are some good military people who truly believe in what they are doing….one of my heroes my whole life has been my older brother, who is a Colonel in the USAF….I used to think he was so smart and had such wisdom, now I wonder and he is no longer quite so high on a pedestal….it’s some what confusing sometimes. I wonder how long the smart military people can continue believing the crap they are fed?? I also KNOW there are some in our military that should not be allowed in and are in for the wrong reasons….I think a lot of these become cops after they get out. Just watch the youtube videos of these guys laughing it up and enjoying shooting the “enemy” over there. Some are Blackwater and some our military boys…..if your enjoying the killing like that, then your head and heart are just wrong. My best friend growing up Travis Schulte’s dad used to talk a little about Vietnam (he was one bad ass dude, people used to come up from Missouri who had never met him, to fight him and see if they could whip him….no one ever did) He had pics of dead soldiers on both sides….I asked him once “why did you take pics of dead people and then keep them”? He was a good Christian man who walked the walk, and he said “war is not glorious or romantic, and it dang sure ain’t fun or cool. I don’t ever want to forget what war is really like” To me that is a man who had his heart and mind right….a lot of these military people today, are not in the same group as Dennis Schulte and they disgust me and I will not honor or respect them…adn they are NOT fighting for me

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          • And I also want to say (now the reply button down below isn’t available….errrr) that I think the military and war is sometimes needed, but we just blatanlty do it all wrong. We should strike, and strike to destroy….period and then get the hell out and back home. We fight more in lines with the scripted long drawn out WWF battles and then stay and occupy forever!! Stupid and just plain wrong

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      • Shooter, I don’t have all the answers. I probably have some good ideas.

        …for the Military to cause a civil war?

        The civil war has already started. The federal government is the enemy and they are bearing down on the people. Whats that Oath say? Defend America and the Constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic? The war is already here. The military is just ignoring it and *WE* are fighting it. We see it killing our future, but instead, you just follow the next order. Re-read your oath and then go read The Constitution. Maybe that will help.

        …what’s your recommendation, then, for how they should be deployed?

        How about “for the common defence”??? How about deployed to uphold your Oath. How about not being tricked into believing false information about “weapons of mass destruction”. (I actually used to think there were some. Up until a few years ago I was like, “Oh, just wait! They’ll find them in the valleys in Syria and then you liberal morons will have egg all over your faces!!!) Guess what?! I was one big shithead that believed them!

        NO MORE BULLSHIT! I tire of it and I won’t stand for it. Maybe all I can do is speak out against it, but, at least I don’t keep quiet about it or salute it.

        …He’d order you shot, and have a steak dinner.

        Right you are! However, had the world elitist corporate greed squad not have struck it probably would have never got to that. Once Hitler was created, military intervention was necessary. Understand, I’m not “Anti-Military”, I’m just anti-war and pro-defense. Once defense is out of the picture, pack up, go home. Just like Iraq: We should have taken care of business THE FIRST TIME instead of having to conjure up excuses for a second war. But, hey! They made more millions that way! And they were able to use it to pummel our rights even more. Yay! Right?

        …Or pick up your rifle and step up to the line, if you feel that strongly about an Oath you never took.

        I took the oath, on my honor, to the real government and the real flag. Not the 50 star corporatocracies’ fake 3×5 gold fringed admiralty flag that most of you did. No, I took it facing a 48 star 1×1.8 G-Spec, original jurisdictional government flag. And, believe me you don’t have to remind me where that line is. Do you know where the line is? Obviously not. You don’t even see the war in your own back yard. Ugh! What has to happen before YOU step up to the line? Are you afraid? or just ignorant?

        …quit standing on both sides of the line, or shut your mouth.

        Evil men always want things to be black and white. They want you to be for the war or against the war. Anti-Military and Pro-Military. Evil never wants you to examine things and look at things intelligently. JUST PICK A SIDE. Sorry, no can do. If good people do evil things they are no longer good people. Because of your very last phrase, I say, as respectfully as I can: SCREW YOU!

        You’re an evil divider. You don’t want to try and sort it out or try to look at both sides. Just pick one and go, right? Well, I can’t do that. This is how our government divides us and keeps us from regaining our original jurisdictional government and our rights. They send guys like you (or create guys like you via the government indoctrination centers) to believe in this black and white binary world. Its not binary!

        All that has to happen for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. Well, I’m doing more than you know. Go back to your military fantasy of keeping the country safe. You should never have come here. It appears that your acceptance multiple concepts, some good and some bad, is not possible.

        But, before you head back to your fantasy, re-read your oath and then go read The Constitution. I DARE YOU! READ IT THREE TIMES! Then, come back here and talk to us. Maybe you’ll understand more.

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    35. SmokinOkie says:

      Can’t we respect the dedication of the soldiers, even if they were misled, and despise the greedy political weasels that manipulate them at the same time? I can. And if I thought anybody would bother to read a few thousand more words I’d give you a REAL lesson on the ‘civil war.’ Luckily for you I’m too lazy to write that much. Damn! I love this site!

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        Damn! I love this site too! Never realized there was so many closet hiding panty sniffing cross dressing Liberals here. I wonder how extensive they have traveled in their mind? How to argue with one (if you must). I think Ann said that.
        My favorite one here is “couldn’t join the military due to my eye sight. It was the best thing I ever didn’t do. I learned everything you would learn about leadership but without the bombs”. I’ll bet you have a white cane and wanted to refuel airborne aircraft, be an eye surgeon or test bombs with a hammer.

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        • JANE says:

          hertosexual FLAMER,

          Im not sure if there are alot of “closet Liberals” on this website as you said, “Damn! I love this site too! Never realized there was so many closet hiding panty sniffing cross dressing Liberals here.”

          hertosexual FLAMER, don’t you know you are:

          - constantly talking about your male roomate.
          - using the name “hertosexual FLAMER”, but you don’t even know how to spell it.
          - and before you insult women or me, you make sure ppl think you are straight by using the user name “hertosexual FLAMER”.

          I don’t know and nor do I care who you are, but something is not right by the way you behave.

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      • I’ve said it several times, SO. …even if they were misled. Most are very honorable.

        So, rest up. OddQ’er gave me stuff to think about. I want a REAL lesson on “The War Between Two Countries That Used To Be America”.

        …unluckily, I might add, “you’re too lazy” (your words, not mine). Surely you can type in a few links to upset my world. Please?

        You guys should realize, I learn way more from the people that disagree with me and call me an idiot, a fool or whatever than I do with the guys that agree. I appreciate you, one and all, pro or con. Ha! Even flamer gives me a chuckle.

        I’m on here looking to be slapped around, intellectually, and it looks like I’ve got some pretty good opponents! …and I can take it. Don’t be shy.

        SALUTE! …to all of you.

        Hey! Some of you think I’m all down on the military? Really? Well, you want to hear me do some cheering about the Military? How about what they did with those carriers after the Japan 9.0 quake? Huh? Or in Haiti? Oh yeah, baby! Hey world, check it out: Thats *MY* military. Tax money well spent. Oh, yeah, I know China got all upset and the conspiracy theorists said we were “invading”. Dopes.

        Show me any military on this planet that will do something like that. …and with class. Rock and roll boys! You make us proud.

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        • SmokinOkie says:

          Net Ranger-I think we’re in agreement on most points. The day the article was first posted was Memorial Day and many of us were simply trying to use that one day to show respect to the ones who’ve demonstrated the ultimate spirit of giving. It has/had nothing to do with the ulterior motives of the weasels who use our military as pawns. We all get that too. We just wanted to focus on the selflessness of fallen soldiers for that day. And of course we don’t deny the political nonsense that manipulates our military.
          But today is a new day, so Damn the PTB–Full Rant Ahead. Carry on NR! I really do enjoy your comments. And as far as a REAL lesson on the War Between the States, I have to confess, I’m running just to keep up with the stuff you and OQ are exchanging about it! It’s better for me to stay out of that and do a lot more LEARNING before I try to teach anybody! Besides, if I knew half as much as I thought I did, I’d be twice as smart as I think I am. :)

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        • heterosexual FLAMER says:

          “You make us proud.”

          ********************** NR, people like you make “us” sick to apologize for people like you that breath in United States! You make me sick! This is not to put you down but to tell you how I feel. *********************************************
          I apologize to all that are offended for NR and “others” words.

          Mac Slavo says:
          May 30, 2011 at 3:38 pm Okie, thank you for taking the time to share…. This is exactly what I was trying to get at… Very few of us are really ready to put it on the line when it counts.

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    36. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

      Having seen firsthand some of the evil acts committed by the current crop of enemies of our country, I have absolutely no remorse for those whom my fellow brothers-in-arms killed in combat. Net Ranger’s comment about killing other fathers in the ditch across from you might have been relevent in the second world war but normal fathers do not target mortar rounds on a school that teaches boys and girls together, or place bombs in the road for the purpose of blowing up busloads of noncombatants in order to intimidate the rest of the population. They do not strap explosive vests onto someone else’s child and send them into a crowded marketplace to kill the children of others. It is an insult to compare the uniformed armies our grandfathers fought to the thugs who hide behind civilian populations and deliberately target noncombatants.
      I did not agree with the official reasons for the wars I fought in but after seeing the things I saw it is hard to not want to hunt down and kill every last f***ing bastard that committed those acts on fellow humans. Those who have not been there simply do not understand. I did not lose any friends or aquaintences during my deployments, but some of those within my division who did not return still enter my mind at odd moments and it is those and others I never had the chance to know and never will who I remember and honor on this day.

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      • …but normal fathers do not target mortar rounds on a school that teaches boys and girls together…

        Moon, condition noted and agreed with.

        Military intervention is *sometimes* necessary. Its just the excess that we go to that I mainly have problems with. Our military does a lot of good. …and some bad. I don’t want to eliminate the military. I just want to eliminate the bad. I’ll even cut them slack for mistakes. But, there is some evil shit going on in todays military and its just wrong. We need to look at it and stop it.

        I worry, though, in our frantic hunt for those who committed (or will commit) those acts, how many freedoms, how much peace and how many lives should we sacrifice for that. I say, as few as possible.

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    37. my parents creation says:

      What’s up smoke my okie? Can we say the troops are used as pawns for the NWO Scum?

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    38. an angry veteran says:

      LMAO ;0P
      You’ve got tobe kidding me!!!
      Sacrificed for Freedom my Freedom~~~WTF!

      Freedom to be a NWO IMF CFR CIA IRS TAX DEBT SLAVE!

      Since you were all sold out in 1913 at Jekyl Island by the Bankers you have all been SLAVES to the NWO!!!

      HELLO!!! MORONS!!!

      The United STates Military is the “”ENFORCER “” for the NWO BANKERS!!! THUG MUSCLE you either do what we say or we kill you!!! Catching on yet??? Simple Simmon Fookers!

      You Sons and Daughters serving in the US ARMED FORCES are NOW building your own NATIOANL PRISON!!!

      Duh!!!

      So as far as their sacrifices for MY TAX DEBT SLAVE FREEDOMS! I Beg you!!! Please stop!!! Your literally killing Us!

      Who wrote this NWO piece of dung Patriotic Drivel!!!

      Look Up General Smedley Butler USMC and ask him what he thinks about AMERICAN ARM FORCES Sacrifices!!!

      Suckers!

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    39. Gods Creation says:

      hertosexual FLAMER says:

      Mac, is it not possible to stop spammers like this idiot? Besides, I am sure if he were heterosexual he could spell it right. I think he is just trying a new way to flame because his old one got too many funny looks.

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    40. da truth says:

      if this country is so bad just leave, what are you waiting for bitches?

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    41. scott says:

      Use to like reading some of the information on this site now its like a big bitch session with the elderly and little kids. You should make registration/verification mandatory so we don’t have so many drifters posting their insultive smack.

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    42. heterosexual FLAMER says:

      Thanks for proof spelling God’s Creaton.

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    43. my parents creation says:

      scott nwo shill, registration, your papers please scott likes nazis

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    44. Bloodyfellow says:

      I will never forget my Brothers that I served with. Those that did not make it home live in us that Honer them.

      Semper Fidelis

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    45. Tom says:

      Good on you Bloodyfellow. They are my hero’s above all others.

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    46. Anonymous says:

      Sarah Palin is a hottie! She can be our cheerleader with pom poms anytime! We hope you make millions!!!!!!!!!!! Michelle Bachmann is a hottie too!

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    47. Bloodyfellow says:

      I love my country, I just hate the government that runs it.

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    48. DoubleTap says:

      I love what my country should be, not what it is. I was a sheep once and joined the Army in Dec. 2001 to be cannon fodder for the NWO. I thought I was being patriotic joining right after 9/11. Believed all the “patriotic propaganda” growing up. So I can’t fault anyone else who’s bought into the bs. I don’t want to attack any one individual in the military, because I’ve met and still know very good people in the military. I come from a family with many who served. My dead uncle is represented on the Arizona Vietnam War memorial(as the dead one of course). But I guess now I’m labeled as a liberal by the neocons (which I used to be up to just a few years ago) I hope more people start to wake up and realize that the wars are bs. Libya is the latest example. American pilots should take a stand against the bombing of Libya. Hell they’re aiding “rebels” in Libya that they would be bombing in Afghanistan. My best friend has been deployed to Africa to watch Al Queda and Al Queda members left this country to fight in Libya. And NATO is now giving them air support. It’s a freaking scam.

      I see the US government as being corrupt, as I think just about everyone here does. And I don’t see this corrupt government acting with benevolent/charitable/noble intentions when their policies cross the sea, in the form of foreign policies. I hate to say it but the best Americans have bought into the “patriotic propaganda” and are now spread across the globe. Unable to protect America at home if need be. America isn’t supposed to be an empire that is in dozens of countries. Too many get hooked on the government tit in the form of “benefits”; the retirement, healthcare, free housing, BHA, BSA. The military is run a socialist paradise. I have an aunt that was a paper pusher in the Army for 14 years, medically retired with full benefits and even has handicap plates on her vehicle. I can’t freaking imagine why. She makes more with her retirement benefits than my mother does as a full time RN.

      Sorry, but the military isn’t protecting your freedoms. Our freedoms are being destroyed from within. Big Gov isn’t going to protect your freedoms abroad while destroying them at home. A corrupt tree will not bare forth good fruit. We need the good boys to be home to help fight the enemy from within. But first they need to wake up and stop sucking off the government tit.(My best friend included) Big Banks, Big Gov, Big Military are not your friend. It was hard for me to wake up to this. I felt like I was being stabbed in the back.

      If I’ve offend anyone with my point of view it’s not my intentions. That we’re on a site like this means that we have a lot in common.

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      • I think most here agree with you to a point, but remember, there are always multiple agendas and unintended consequences to every action.

        Yes the majority of wars are started by our self proclaimed masters in the name of power and greed. And yes the members of the military think they are fighting for the ideal of freedom. And yes, many of us feel Patriotism for our country, but as you said, how it was supposed to be, not how it is.

        BUT……….fate has a funny way of derailing plans and changing the planned outcomes so sometimes, the ideals that the rank and file of the military believe they are fighting for actually do come to fruition.

        As long as SOMEONE believes in the founding principles of this country, and fights to preserve them (even if those starting the war did not have those intentions) then hopefully, the world will not, in the end, turn into exactly what the tyrants and despots want it to be.

        As long as the concept of defending freedom stays alive in peoples consciousness, we still have a chance to stop these bastards.

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      • DoubleTap, I wish I could read your info with glee and shout, “See! See! See what this guys says!” and point to all that disparage my opinions.

        …but I cannot. I can only read it and be sad and feel that, somehow, we, us civilians, have let you down somehow. Some of us are trying to change it.

        Chin up!

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      • Excellent post….and yes waking up hurts and is hard to do

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    49. my parents creation says:

      sarah palin is a stupid quitter whore, that is all she is good for, the worst presidential candidate ever

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      • Slim says:

        That was very intelligent. Is that the best of you?

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      • SmokinOkie says:

        I must take exception to your characterization of Sarah Palin. She is most definitely NOT stupid, unless you define ‘stupid’ as anyone who disagrees with your political views. And she is no quitter. She left the governorship of Alaska for bigger and better things, and she left the state in better shape than when she was elected, according to several relatives who live there. And I seriously doubt that she would ever trade sexual favors for money or anything else. Also, she is NOT the worst presidential candidate ever. First, she isn’t yet a candidate for that office. And even if she does run she is still light years ahead of the likes of…Al Gore, Obama, Clinton, W Bush, GHW Bush, Carter, Mondale, Kerry, Hubert Humphry, Nixon, Ted Kennedy, Adlai Stevenson, Millard Fillmore…did I leave anyone out?
        Other than these few errors, I completely agree with the rest of your comment. Oh, there wasn’t any more to it, was there?

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    50. DoubleTap says:

      Where did my post go? That blow’s!

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    51. Ben Dover says:

      MPC: Maybe she is the perfect politician. She does not stay in office for decades. Even if you do not like her politics, she is not stupid. She is also much easier on the eyes than that witch Pelosi or that _unt Boxer.

      HSF: What do you have against sniffing panties (depending upon whose they were)?

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    52. Bloodyfellow says:

      I enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps cause it is a tradition in my family to serve, plus they had the best looking uniform. The reality is I just did it for the experience of it and I’m content with that.

      I don’t regret a damn thing! ~ other them the way I came home, I was pushed on four wheels facing up and the sucked! I was lucky I’m waking again but, I still can’t touch my toes and that sux to!

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    53. harry says:

      sarah palin is a Stupid Twat, she got schooled again on history as she did not know what Paul reveres ride was about, What a dumbass. She is lucky she is cute, if not for that she would be nothing.

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    54. harry says:

      Dear Troops:

      Yesterday — Memorial Day — some people asserted, once again, that you are “defending our freedoms” overseas.

      Nothing could be further from the truth. Those people are just repeating tired old mantras. The reality is that you are not defending our freedoms with your actions overseas. In fact, it is the exact opposite. Your actions overseas are placing our freedoms here at home in ever-greater jeopardy.

      Consider your occupation of Iraq, a country that, as you know, never attacked the United States, making it the defender in the war and the United States the aggressor. Think about that: Every single person that the troops have killed, maimed, or tortured in Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

      Yet, the countless victims of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq have friends and relatives, many of whom have become filled with anger and rage and who now would stop at nothing to retaliate with terrorist attacks against Americans.

      Pray tell: How does that constitute defending our freedoms?

      It was no different prior to 9/11. At the end of the Persian Gulf War, the troops intentionally destroyed Iraq’s water and sewage facilities after a Pentagon study showed that this would help spread infectious illnesses among the Iraqi people.

      It worked. For 11 years after that, the troops enforced the cruel and brutal sanctions on Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. (See “America’s Peacetime Crimes against Iraq” by Anthony Gregory.) You’ll recall U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright’s infamous statement that the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions were “worth it.”

      By “it” she meant the attempted ouster of Saddam Hussein from power. You will recall that he was a dictator who was the U.S. government’s ally and partner during the 1980s, when the United States was furnishing him with those infamous WMDs that U.S. officials later used to excite the American people into supporting your invasion of Iraq.

      The truth is that 9/11 furnished U.S. officials with the excuse to do what their sanctions (and the deaths of all those Iraqi children) had failed to accomplish: ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein and replacing him with a U.S-approved regime.

      That’s what your post-9/11 invasion of Iraq was all about — to achieve the regime change that the pre-9/11 deadly sanctions that killed all those children had failed to achieve.

      No, not mushroom clouds, not freedom, not democracy, and certainly not defending our freedoms here at home. Just plain old regime change.

      In the process, all that you — the troops — have done with your invasion and occupation of Iraq is produce even more enmity toward the United States by people in the Middle East, especially those Iraqis who have lost loved ones or friends in the process or simply watched their country be destroyed.

      In principle, it’s no different with Afghanistan. I’d estimate that 99 percent of the people the troops have killed, maimed, or tortured in that country had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

      Why did you invade Afghanistan or, more precisely, why did President Bush order you to do so?

      No, not because the Taliban participated in the 9/11 attacks and, no, not because the Taliban were even aware that the attacks were going to take place

      President Bush ordered the troops to invade Afghanistan — and, of course, kill Afghan citizens in the process — because the Afghan government – the Taliban — refused to comply with his unconditional extradition demand. You will recall that the Taliban offered to turn bin Laden over to an independent tribunal to stand trial upon the receipt of evidence from the United States indicating his complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

      Bush responded to the Taliban’s offer by issuing his order to the troops to invade Afghanistan, kill Afghans, and occupy the country. In the process, U.S. officials installed one of the most crooked, corrupt, and dictatorial rulers it could find to govern the country, one who is so incompetent he cannot even hide the manifest fraud by which he has supposedly been elected to office.

      In the process of installing and defending the Karzai regime, the troops have killed brides, grooms, children, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, and countrymen, most of whom never attacked the United States on 9/11 or at any other time. They simply became “collateral damage” or “bad guys” for having the audacity to oppose the invasion and occupation of their country by a foreign regime. (It should be noted for the record that U.S. officials considered these types of “bad guys,” as well as Osama bin Laden and other fundamentalist Muslims, to be “good guys” when they were trying to oust Soviet troops from Afghanistan.)

      Was there another way to bring bin Laden to justice? Yes, the criminal-justice route, which was the route used after the 1993 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center.

      That’s right. Same target, different date. In fact, the accused terrorists — Ramzi Yousef in 1993 and Osama bin Laden in 2001 — were ultimately located in the same country, Pakistan.

      In Yousef’s case, he was arrested some three years after the attack, brought back to the United States, prosecuted, and convicted in federal district court. He’s now serving a life sentence in a federal penitentiary.

      No invasions, no bombings, no occupations, no killing of countless innocent people, no torture, no war on terrorism, and no anger and rage that such actions inevitably would have produced among the victims, their families, and friends.

      In bin Laden’s case, we instead got a military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, where the troops have killed, maimed, tortured, and hurt countless people who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

      How in the world have your invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq defended our freedoms here at home? Indeed, how have the assassinations and bombings in Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, and who knows where else defended our freedoms?

      All these things have accomplished is keeping foreigners angry at us, thereby subjecting us to the constant and ever-growing threat of terrorist retaliation here at home. As I have pointed out before, the U.S. military — that is, you, the troops — have become the biggest terrorist-producing machine in history. Every time you kill some Iraqi or Afghan citizen, even when accidental, ten more offer to take his place out of anger and rage.

      That’s the same thing that was happening prior to 9/11. In fact, there were some, including those of us here at The Future of Freedom Foundation, who were warning prior to 9/11 that unless the U.S. Empire stopped what it was doing to people in the Middle East (including the deadly sanctions on Iraq, the support of Middle East dictators, the stationing of U.S. troops near Islamic holy lands, and the unconditional money and armaments to the Israeli regime), Americans would be increasingly subject to terrorist attacks. On 9/11, we were proven right, unfortunately. (See Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire by Chalmers Johnson.)

      How does the constant threat of terrorist retaliation arising from your actions in Iraq and Afghanistan make us freer here at home, especially when you — the troops — are responsible for engendering the anger and rage that culminates in such threats, owing to what you are doing to people over there?

      Consider also what the U.S. government does to our freedoms here at home as a direct consequence of the terrorist threat that you, the troops, are producing over there. It uses that threat of terrorism to infringe upon our freedoms here at home! You know what I mean — the fondling at the airports, the 10-year-old Patriot Act, the illegal spying on Americans, the indefinite detention, the torture, the kangaroo tribunals, Gitmo, and the entire war on terrorism — all necessary, they tell us, to keep us safe from the terrorists — that is, the people you all are producing with your actions over there.

      In other words, if you all weren’t producing an endless stream of terrorists with your invasions, occupations, torture, assassinations, bombings, and Gitmo, the U.S. government — the entity you are working for — would no longer have that excuse for taking away our freedoms.

      This past Sunday, the Washington Post carried an article about American wives who were recently greeting their husbands on their return from Afghanistan. Newlywed Anne Krolicki, 24, commented to her husband on the death of one of her friends’ husband: “It’s a pointless war,” she said.

      That lady has her head on straight. She’s has a grip on reality, doesn’t deal in tired old mantras, and speaks the truth. Every U.S. soldier who dies in Iraq and Afghanistan dies for nothing, which was the same thing that some 58,000 men of my generation died for in Vietnam.

      Please don’t write me to tell me that you all are good people or that you’re “patriots” for simply following whatever orders you are given. All that is irrelevant. What matters is what you are doing over there. And what you are doing is not defending our freedoms, you are jeopardizing them

      Sincerely,

      Jacob G. Hornberger
      President
      The Future of Freedom Foundation
      http://www.fff.org

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