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  • Clarocet for Kids

    Regulated out of Existence: Off-Gridders Forced back on the Grid, Camping on own land Illegal

    Robert Richardson
    September 27th, 2015
    Off Grid Survival
    Comments (269)
    Read by 56,207 people

    This article was originally published by Robert Richardson at Off Grid Survival.


    It’s something we’ve reported on many times in the past – government agencies trying to regulate Off-Grid living out of existence. Throughout the country, local zoning officials have made it impossible for people to go off the grid, in many cases even threatening them with jail time for not hooking into local utilities.

    Because of zoning laws that target the off-grid lifestyle, many off-gridders have moved to areas in the Southwestern United States to escape overzealous zoning officials. But this week, off- gridders were dealt another blow in an area of the country that has become a magnet for people looking to live a more self-reliant lifestyle.

    Is Costilla County, Colorado Banning Off-Grid Living?

    There is a battle brewing in Costilla County, Colorado


    During the last couple of years, Costilla County, Colorado has seen a huge influx in people moving into the San Luis Valley – must of who have moved there to live off the grid. A combination of cheap land, lax zoning regulations, and a community of self-reliant individuals has brought in a large number of off-grid homesteaders into the area. But that life-style is now being threatened as government officials move to make it illegal — something that is becoming a real problem for those who are looking to buy rural land.

    Costilla County, Colorado Bans camping on your own Land; Zoning Officials attempt to make people hook back into the grid.


    Last week tensions reached a boiling point, as a scheduled county commissioners’ meeting in San Louis, Colorado, turned into an ugly shouting match between sheriff deputies and off-grid homesteaders. The conflict comes as the county is attempting to ban camping, and force off-grid home owners back on to the grid.

    Twenty-year resident Paul Skinner summed it up at the planning commission meeting, “We are residents who have come to live off the grid. It’s all our land.” … “These are harsh economic times. We have nowhere to go.”

    “We’ve been regulated out of life,” resident Robin Rutan told CPR. “I came here because I couldn’t live by the codes [in other regions]”


    One of the issues that is causing the biggest outcry is the county’s refusal to issue camping permits, which the county is now requiring residents have if they are living in an RV, or camp-style home. This is a big problem for off-gridders, many of whom either live in RVs, tiny-homes, or tents as they build their permanent homes.

    Other changes to the code would require water, sewer and electricity to be installed prior to building permits being issued – something that local residents say specifically targets those who came here to live off-the-grid.

    Local Residents Shares why they moved to the area, and how the county is attempting to move them out.

    Self-Reliant Lifestyle Being Targeted for Extinction


    From the White House using race to change national zoning laws and define who can live in certain neighborhoods, to global corporations using eminent domain to steal homes, to the city of Seattle trying to ban single-family homes, there is a war on self-reliance brewing. It’s becoming harder and harder for independent, freedom-minded people to find somewhere to live without having to worry about government intrusion. It seems freedom loving Americans are under attack from every direction.

    I’ve covered story after story…

    Follow Off Grid Survival via their RSS Feed or Facebook Page.

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
    Advanced Tactical Gas Mask
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post

    Author: Robert Richardson
    Views: Read by 56,207 people
    Date: September 27th, 2015

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.


    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. We haven’t been free in this country for a long time now, its not going to change until people throw out the Gov.

      • I had a home in th4 desert of California. I lived there for 15 years and I had bought it from someone else. I had paid my taxes, kept everything in order. One day a SWAT team from nuisance control showed up ad told me my house was condemned for lack of electricity. I pointed to the 30 kw solar array and said there is my power. They said it was insufricient and incompatible with the building code so my house was condemned. I tried to fight it but it just cost me 20k and 2 years of my time before some guys showed up with a bull dozer and bull dozed my house. Then they sent me a bill for $25,000 for the demo and disposal.

        • TEST says:

          Wow, what an incredible and sad story. Have you written about this? Joe, the battle is with the pen and the blog, not the sword. Can you tell us more? Maybe Mac would let you write an article. Can you point to stories in the paper about this, or provide the regulations they used against you? You see, while our battle is non-violent, it relies on **verifiable** information which we disseminate, and on education.

          If you could write about this (maybe have someone edit it for you) and submit it to different blogs, you might be able to at least partially redeem this evil.

          It is almost as if the Nazis had won, isn’t it. Police stopping kids from selling lemonaide, garage sales selling “banned stuff” with fines up to a million dollars, they gay Brownshirt Nazis destroying businesses… we need to keep after this, educate the young, write, post, peacefully but **insistently** push back and never give up. Become a precinct committeeman. I will tell you this. I DESPISE leftist fascism, and I will never, ever, EVER give up. And how these vile people who do stuff like this can actually look in the mirror is beyond me… kinda like the Nazis what would kill people all day in the camps, the go watch an opera that night with their family. I can tell you this, tho: We all die. And there IS a God. And these people WILL answer to Him. And it won’t be pretty

          • Acid Etch says:

            How many gays were beaten, jailed, fired, ostracized, and put into mental asylums by redwhiteandblue shirt Nazis?

          • says:

            Problem number 1 is you should never liver in California. Those people are batfuckinshit crazy and they most certainly do NOT believe in the global warming bullshit they profess. I’m sorry for your troubles but NEVER NEVER NEVER live in a state completely run by the f**king left.

          • csaaphill says:

            your serious right? the fight is with the pen not the sword? seems that’s how were getting in this mess to begin with.
            Cliven Bundy was 100% right and hope more make stands like he did.
            America is in full on police state spiral and writing isn’t going to stop it. sorry no it’s not.

          • ADCU says:

            I live in Costilla, built a beautiful house off grid that produces around 30KW/day with the system we have. We built before many of these people came here but I’d rather have a person in a tent living next to me that believes in the Constitution than some rich guy who believes the gubbermint is trying to help them.
            I wish we could get people of like minds from the area together, it was reported 800 new people have moved into this county where only 3700 live in the last year. This is enough to vote anyone out of office and it needs to be done. Some of these families have no where else to go. I sure am not going to be the one to kick them off their land for camping if they don’t have a camping permit just so my home value doesn’t go down. How low can we go? Many of us who have these nice houses are 1 job loss, 1 idiotic court case, 1 bad day on the freeway away from the same spot many of these are in. Tough times are coming.
            At the meeting on Sept. 15 I heard many ‘long time residents’ chanting “We support the police”…they only support the cops until the cops come knocking on their door because the last thing this stupid county passed now affects them. Then these people will be on the side chanting, “We support the Constitution.”
            Please help give us in Costilla to have a way to get people of like minds together.

            • Currywurst says:

              Sorry, but “30KW/day” is not a thing. A kilowatt is a measure of instantaneous level, not of a produced volume. That’s like saying your car will produce 200 horsepower per day; that makes no sense. You need to add a unit of time (like hours) to give you kilowatt hours. 30 kilowatt hours (KWH) PER DAY is actually something, and it happens to be the non-summer electric consumption of a moderate-sized (1200-1500 square foot) house.

              You gotta know the lingo or you can’t make the argument.

              • ADCU says:

                Really, people are this stupid to argue because an off grid person didn’t include an ‘Hour’ in his KW(H) input. This, actually YOU, are the reason why this country is going down the crapper. I have forgotten more about solar/wind/batteries/inverters than you will ever know. I was and am not bragging about my situation as I have been blessed by my God but just saying even the ‘rich’ living in the county don’t mind these ‘poor’ people, I actually prefer they live next to me than the currywurst banana. BTW, if you think the average house uses 30KWH in a day you are out of your mind. I don’t use this much either as batteries don’t allow you to use what you produce, nowhere close.
                Stay on the subject and stop the idiotic infighting because someone didn’t include something 99% of the country knows nothing about. I’m interested in leaving a decent Country for my children and their children’s children. You will still be spell checking the entries on the site long after this happens, it’s past your bed-time.

                • I appreciate Currywurst’s post, he was being informative….YOU are being belligerent. Let’s all remember we are not each other’s enemies!…”THEY” want us to fight each other….DON’T!

                  • ADCU says:

                    Want to learn about solar power, Google it. I’m not here for lessons. I’m here because I love my country and It has been taken over by a bunch of Lucifer worshiping thugs and you are informed about a Kilowatt Hour? This shows me how damned we are as a country.
                    Can we stop spell checking and care about things that matter? Outside of the trolls, I mean of course.

                  • Dave says:

                    Dude was just trying to help you make your argument sound better to those that matter. No need to go nutty. And he’s right; If you make the right argument with the wrong terms people *not* willing to help you won’t hesitate to make that the main topic.

                    relax man, you gotta win the little fights if you want to challenge the big stuff.

                  • john says:

                    you must be a troll go away leave

              • ZeroPoint says:

                Umm… You actually mentioned the unit of time you claimed he lacked in your own post (per day). Your example has no bearing on the topic whatsoever btw, as a car delivers it’s power to wheels directly whereas a solar panel directs it’s power to batteries where it’s stored (making a measurement of it’s capacity to produce during daylight hours absolutely appropriate).
                In other words: It’s YOUR post that makes no sense whatsoever. Quit trying to sound like you know what you’re talking about, as it’s pretty obvious you have no clue.

              • Leonard says:

                Are you naive enough to think the SWAT team would stand down as soon as you added the word “hours” to the description of your system?

              • Lost In The C.R.C. says:

                Know the lingo? It’s you who know nothing troll! Lets use some math, shall we?
                30KW = 30,000 watts
                A watt is a measure of electrical work performed, so:
                30,000 watts / 8 hours of average “usefull” sun per day = 3,750 watts = array output.
                I should know, as an electrician, I install solar panels for a living. (As well as switchgear in powerplants, conduit, wire, motors lighting etc in the past 15 years. No, romex rangers are not electricians, so let’s not waste time with that Argument…
                Think before espousing shitcan logic in the future 🙂

            • ADcU:

              Let your neighbor rent your garage or a spare room while you work together to build a home on his property. He could do work on your property such as repairs and food creation through planting trees shrubs and garden vegetables. An alliance between neighbors growing into a neighborhood alliance and branching out to renew/re-establish the Constitutional rights which apparently are no more.

              • ADCU says:

                Actually I have been tirelessly asking and looking for a family who has nowhere to go. They said they just got here and because the county is no longer issuing the permits required to camp on their own property they didn’t know what else they could do. It broke my heart and I would in a minute let them hook up their broken down camper to my house while they get back on their feet.

            • I own land in costilla county very near san luis this directly effects me as well..I am also the founder of operation patriot rally point i have been in the fight for our constitution actively since 2009 was active at operation american spring and bundy ranch..i know how to do this,its kinda what i me organize you friends and contact me at

          • The Nazis did win.

            They were imported into the United States (after all, we financed them… see Union Bank, and Prescott Walker). They were placed in intelligence, and they created and staffed the CIA. They also went into our weapons and space programs, and you can see how the weaponization of space is going.

            It is exactly these Nazis and their legacy that are confronting in our own government.

          • Reina says:

            I DESPISE leftist fascism,
            The left is for the people…the right wing is the fascist regime. I can tell you this…the imperialists are trying to divide us, so I would quit using left/right labels, because some of the left and some of the right have the same belief.

        • Kulafarmer says:

          Thats a real bummer, a friend of mine over here had a similar problem, he was living in a shack, solar, catchment water, county condemned his home because he had never applied for a SMA permit,

          • Rodster says:

            In Cape Coral, Florida when you buy a home, the City caps your well and septic tank then charges you when they hook you up to City water and sewer. The fee is based on your homes appraisal. If you decide go off grid, they fine you and threaten you with jail time.

          • rellik says:

            I learned that you always get a permit, they are cheap. I have some that are almost 10 years old. They never mess with me. I keep working on the projects. They sign off when they are done. Another skill is writing letters, going to public meetings, and quoting Hawaii laws. United states Code is another good thing to quote. There are so many laws, you can always find one to help you get away with something.

            • csaaphill says:

              BS anytime you give in to the permits crap your lost. Permits are for totalitarianism states not for liberty.
              anytime you have to ask permission your already lost.

            • ADCU says:


              This county is refusing to issue new permits to even camp legally on your own land.
              This is not the real problem, the real problem is the county saying you need a permit to CAMP on your own property. Wow, you have some idiot at the meeting ‘Tim’ that spoke first, again this is just some yahoo that is 1 or 2 paychecks or 1-2 non-constitutional County rules they impose on his dumb ass away from the same position. When will Americans get it? You are only ‘for’ this unconstitutional BS because it doesn’t YET, when it does you will be with the ‘treehuggers’.
              Again, I have met many of these persons, I would much rather them living next to me when the SHTF then the ‘wealthy’ because it’s the ‘wealthy’ that are going to be knocking at your door saying, “we’re hungry”. The tree huggers will have enough knowledge to live off the land, that is until all the wealthy city-dwellers come to the county because they are starving.
              The County wants to rid themselves of these types of people because they DO NOT call the cops, they do NOT want the ‘help’ of the cops/courts and more.
              Costilla County res. please get in touch with everyone you know and spread the word, we unite, stand together or fall separately.

              Jesus is King,

              • ADcU:

                I agree with what you said but I disagree that the rich will be hungry at your door. Some yes, but the majority may be not. Rich know more and sometimes are in on the plan. Even if they are innocent as most are; they didn’t get rich by being stupid. While they may profess to not need food and supplies, they may be just smarter about keeping their mouth shut about what is behind closed doors and or at some other location. Rich people generally buy wholesale and many own stores or other cover for building their emergency preps. Don’t discount anybody. We need all the help we can get. I have rich friends and poor friends. They breathe the same air. This is just one more way the fascists divide us.

        • Braveheart says:

          Joe, I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you told them what they could do with that bill. No way I would’ve paid it.

          • CommonCents says:

            Brave, I agree and get what you are saying, but I think if the bill wasn’t paid he probably would have faced jail time.

            • hillybillywilly says:

              Hell yes he would have paid it, do you really think some sorry ass old man would actually DO anything but bitch on chatroom sites?

              • Braveheart says:

                Hillybillywilly, he can do whatever he believes is necessary for himself. If I was in his shoes, there’s no way I would’ve paid it AFTER they’d already took my home and destroyed it. They used taxpayer money to do what they did to him, then have the audacity to HAVE HIM PAY A BILL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY THAT THEY STOLE FROM HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE. No, if that had been me, there would’ve been a fight. I’m one old man you don’t want to fuck with, troll, so go fuck yourself!

              • Anonymous says:

                Are we talking about debtor’s prison?

                • yupyup says:

                  yes. debtors prison is a fact of life for anyone going against government or who writes checks they cannot pay (going against banks). Forget what you were taught about the USA being altruistic. Debtors prison is a fact of life in the USA.

                  • It is my understanding

                    You can not be jailed for writing a check that bounces from an open checking that is rightfully your own even if you are not able to make good on it.

                    People go to prison when they write a check from their own checking account if that account has been officially closed.

                    Of course they also are jailed for using checks from an account for which they have no legal right as in fraud or outright theft.

                    There are enough real problems. Let’s not exaggerate. Get the facts. Debtors prison-not exactly. But heading in that direction. Some lawmakers are out to change the law from say just one word OPEN account as well as CLOSED account. The significance would evade the public.

                    We must be vigilant and never allow this to occur. It would open the floodgates to actually creating debtors prisoners and who isn’t behind on their bills. Say FEMA CAMPS for unpaid student loans and unpaid credit cards. One more reason to pay your bills off and start using cash.

        • Wild Man says:

          Obviously you were unarmed or unwilling to defend your God given rite to live free.

        • You have to stand for something. I will die right hear on my own land in Texas, after taking several of them with me.

        • Arizona says:

          YOU gave your country to SATANS wolfpack,the police gangs from hell,NOW their as powerful as your military once was,AMERICA will go into SLAVERY,you won’t fight,your women will be slaves,and after your death,your children will be raised in slavery,and their children too,COWARDS don’t deserve any better…….kiss your ass goodby………..

          • YOU gave your country over too there Az so quit the finger pointing, or do you consider talking bullshit on the internet as combat too? Christ, all of these armchair warriors who talk tough, if I had a dime for every worthless, tough talking post made here I could retire in style, get a life.

        • paul says:

          hi joe, your story seems to be quite typical of what is happening out there in the states. but if you want answers to WHY this is happening just look up the united nations agenda 21.

        • And yet believers in Big Government have the temerity to ask

          “How would people survive without government to provide a safety net?”

        • billybobhogjowl says:

          @ AE

          Thank you for your post. Especially the link about public schools.

          Two-thirds of the real estate tax I pay on my home goes to subsidize government schools to create brain washed wage slaves, tax serfs and cannon fodder. I absolutely hate being forced to subsidize tyranny.

          If you try bringing a Constitutional claim against any part of your real estate tax, be aware of the Tax Injunction Act, 28 USC 1341, which paraphrased says no federal court shall interfere with the assessment, levying or collection of any state tax where there is a simple, sure and speedy remedy in state court.

          Look into how your state courts are funded. They might be a component part of your state’s Supreme Court, Which, of course, is funded by state taxes. That’s why the vermin want to preempt your ability to go to a relatively impartial federal court.

          So your probability of getting an impartial hearing from a state judge whose rump is parked in a courthouse paid for by the tax you are protesting, who socializes with political vermin and local bureaucrats paid by the tax you are protesting…

          is close to zero.

          There are exceptions to 28 USC 1341. Will jump back on when I have spme specifics.

      • Menzoberranzan says:

        Hopefully there will be some dead bureaucrats and enforcers that bring their tyranny to people on their land. I will shed no tear for them and I will do my headshots when it’s my turn.

      • Hope for peace says:

        Absolutely right Toolmaker Rex, NO Governments, NO Banks = World peace and enough for all.

      • Wilson says:

        There are a lot of half statements in this article. The whole story is not being told, but the half statements contained in this article will do just what the author is trying to do. He merely wants to stir up a stink and get people riled up.

        As for the bearded native, I wouldn’t care to have him for a neighbor either. The fact that he is a native doesn’t mean he gets treated any better than anyone else. What a wussy.

        It is ironic that there is a large solar farm in “the Valley” as Coloradoans call it. The valley is a superb place for solar energy to be used, over 300 days per year of sunshine. It should be noted that there can be winters where the valley gets fogged in for weeks on end and that may reduce the effectiveness of solar. It is also ironic to me that with all of the environmental tree huggers (thanks John Denver) in Colorado that there would be objections to off grid living. Former Governor DICK Lamm was against growth and worked to control/stop/over regulate any and all growth. I suppose off grid living cuts into the local government revenue stream and the energy company’s revenue as well. They will make money running power to each homestead and from selling electricity. Nothing is said about water. The valley has annual precipitation from 7 – 10 inches per year. Good luck raising food with that, or irrigating!!!

        One thing this article conveniently overlooks is the historical aspect of Costilla County. Old Spanish Land Grants, the oldest continually occupied community in Colorado, a lot of resentment against Anglos moving into the county and wanting to change things to suit them. It just doesn’t work that way in the Valley, and particularly in Costilla county. There are many other places to live in Colorado that are relatively cheap. Heck, there’s Dove Creek, or the entire eastern plains with great potential for wind energy. Go somewhere else if you don’t like the way things are done in Costilla County. Try Boulder County, you’ll like it there. I wonder if the actions of the county commissioners are based on resenting the arrogance of the Anglos, and/or making sure Costilla County doesn’t turn into another “Little Texass” like Pagosa Springs, South Fork, Durango, etc., and etc. have.

        • sixpack says:

          When I was young, my Dad worked irrigation for a farmer in Otis Colorado. We lived in a metal Quonset, and it was hot and dry. There were exactly 2 trees in the yard and the rest was sandy, the next trees were 2 miles down the road at the boss’ house. Nothing but wheat for as far as my little eyes could see. I remember corn too, but once you see a breeze roll through a huge wheat field, you never forget it.

        • Castle Rock says:

          Costilla County is the most lawless, corrupt place on earth. The locals have for generations stolen anything they could get to limit people being able to survive there. This has kept the population down to nil. They found the Native Americans could not survive if they just stole their equipment and so the lawless Spanish heathens have continued doing this for hundreds of years here. They also teach classes in the town of San Luis, pertaining to taking full advantage of the welfare system(only for Spanish speaking individuals of course) so they legal and illegal people there can stay home and watch you go to work, then come over to take your stuff! DON’T MOVE THERE! No one will help you and you will go broke or be put in jail or end up a drug addict. Only drug kings from Mexico are moving here to live.

          • ADCU says:

            Come on CR,
            Everyplace is corrupt and if you think otherwise, I respectfully say you need to pull your head out of your a$$.
            Many Constitutionalists are moving to the area and the Spanish Majority are now becoming the S MINORITY and the corrupt judges, commissioners, mayors, sheriff’s officers and more will be voted out and this will be one of the best places to survive.
            Colorado shot itself in the foot when it legalized MJ. If they wanted all those in the US who want LESS government and LESS control over their lives they should’ve seen this coming. Are you kidding? I want all the pot smokers to move here because by and large they support the Constitution and LESS gov! Come, bring your families, bring your weed, your love for freedom.
            This is bound to be the most free place to live in a few more months to a year in the entire US! So, if you’re afraid then DON’T move here we don’t want puss/wuss who can’t take the thought of maybe having to give up something for their CHILDRE’S future, oh how horrible the thought you’d actually have to get off your lazy pathetic butt and do something for your descendants!

            This was not a smash against CR but all those who won’t fight for freedom.

        • Castle Rock says:

          Don’t move there! All criminals drugs evil people!

      • Acid Etch says:

        German official assholes warn against right wing reactionaries, but not against the 270 million people murdered by Islam the Armenian genocide and the 2 million women sold into sex slavery by Islam.

      • Bohica1 says:

        Call to arms.
        F the elite scum bags

      • anonymous5 says:

        Just waiting for the first off-grid person who determines to resist the tyranny by any means necessary.

        The tyrants keep pushing. One day, they’ll push the wrong person and it will be on.

        These “public servants” need to contrast what they are doing with the Constitution and mend their ways. Because if they don’t, some day there will be open season.

        • I’m afraid anon5, that the PTB are just waiting and hoping for that one person or better yet a whole crew of persons who just can’t take any more shit off these sadistic psychos and goes ballistic starting a real insurgency. That is exactly what they hope in their evil corrupt blackened hearts. And it’s on. Marshal Law USA. No we must be willing to be jailed and get a record. To my mind there is but one way. Civil disobedience. We just say fuck it make me stop collecting rain water. Or no you’ll have to carry me off this land. I’m not going to cooperate. People are more willing to disobey and get their ass beat than they are to just start shooting. Of course it happens. Usually counter-productive. Not always. It put a stahl to abortions when doctors started getting lead in their chests. But they’re back and still at it. Who knows. May be there will be someone Jessee Ventura someone who takes the bull by the horns and leads like a real man.

          • anonymous5 says:

            @B from CA….

            “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
            ― Aleksander Solzhenitsyn

        • anon5,

          Right there is why NOTHING will ever happen. You ” wait” for ” somebody” to ” do something” and you’ll wait forever. Talk is cheap and will never be anything but.

          • anonymous5 says:


            “Stand your ground. Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.
            –Capt. John Parker, Lexington Green, April 19, 1775—

            This is the attitude I’m talking about. I’m not talking about going out and picking a fight. I’m talking about…when they come…stand your ground and tell them to un-ass your property or face the consequences.

      • RADONKULUS says:

        What about the bums in major cities across the nation . L.A. just declared a bum emergency ! They live off the grid ? Just saying . At least these folks in Colorado own the land and pay TAX ! Man what a mixed up deal !

      • Assface McFucker says:

        You never “own” anything, you merely rent “it” from Corporations or the government, or both.

      • Dr, James Chappell says:

        I believe most of the issues we have with “our” government is with our standing. We the People formed “our” government. The are meant to serve us, hence they are called public servants. We are the sovereign. We the People created the Declaration of Independence that confirmed our UNALIENABLE Rights are Creator given NOT man given. These Right, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness can NEVER be taken away. Unfortunately, we can consent to give them away. We do that by contract and agreement. We allow government to create a status of individuals, former American Inhabitants, to that of a corporation. Once we become corporate, we no longer have Declaration of Independence or Constitutional Rights. By way of contract, we exchange Rights for privileges and permission. Applying for and signing contracts called a drivers license, marriage license, building permit, property tax, income tax and on and on, waives our Rights to be free. This system of usurption was developed on purpose and by design. We the People have become a pond in the game. It’s time we take back our country.
        For more comments search my name dot com.
        Dr. James Chappell

      • oldoffgridderintexas says:

        As “they” come for your land/home/homestead remind them that they, not you, are violating the organic laws of this country. These laws can be found in the 1st volume of the US Code. There are only 4 of them: The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, The Northwest Territory Act, and the US Constitution. ALL of these are the basic or organic laws of this country and, by their admission into Statehood, for each one of the many States. Go study these. Then study what your God given rights are. Then study Land ownership at:

        Your troubles will not be over but you can put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

      • Obi-jonKenobi says:

        The conflict in Costilla County breaks down mostly to the old, established residents resenting and fearing an influx of newcomers many of whom are setting up marijuana grow operations (marijuana is now legal in Colorado). So, this isn’t some nefarious, scary, big-government clampdown, FEMA-camps-are-coming scenario destroying the lives of those that want to be free, this is a cultural clash between locals, many of whom have chicano surnames and newcomers, many of whom are urban escapees or marijuana entrepreneurs. This is outsiders vs. the locals, something that happens all the time.

        And in this locals vs. newcomer battle, the locals are using the county codes and zoning to put the pressure on the newcomers, denying them camping permits needed to live on their land while they build or demanding they have utilities to the land before they can build while most of the newcomers want to be completely off-grid.

        An important element (no pun intended) of this conflict is water. The newcomers are using an artesian well in San Luis in ways the locals don’t by taking large amounts of water at a time. Part of that has to do with convenience i.e. they have to travel a ways to get the water so take a lot when they do. It’s led to locking the pump at the well. There’s also suspicion among the locals that the newcomers are siphoning water from the Rio Grande to use in grow operations, a BIG concern in an area of the country where people have fought over water rights for ages. This is the area of the country where whisky is for drinking and water is for fighting.

        This isn’t nanny-state, big-government oppressing the people, this is locals resenting newcomers with a different lifestyle.

      • sancho says:

        hi guys; so many comments,.. wont read them all,.. some a re funny. guess i could read and write 4ever,.. i do on my own,.. here a few points and so much to the sword and pen paper thing:
        -there is just little untouched nature left to build houses on. yeah,.. in mexico we lost all our pristine beaches to beautiful mansions with swimmingpools were river were,.. were i used to camp and surf,.. nothing left;(

        -why not live of the grid in side the city? we control the city better than any other power,..

        -you say you have a greyhound bus,.. how much petrol does it use,.. im ok,.. just,.. lets think more sun-electric-energy and wind power than that,… lets say you got a tesla car,.. thats bullocks too,.. its a good start that just arrives a bit tooooo late,.. ok,.. you guys dont have trains,..

        -last but not least,.. many mexicans live since 1000years of the grid and our GOV is kicking them out of their lands to build highways and mining and frakking,.. well,.. i guess the number goes up the a few million displaced,.. a who knows about it? luxury hotels are build on aborigines-land…. yet they have no papers,.. hmmm,… of the grid sounds nice in the middle of nowhere,.. but,..

        every development to save this planet will and can only come out of the cities as everything is channeled in and out of them,.. we passed the point of no return,.. nature lives within us,.. we dont have to go out and look for it,.. possibly destroying it on tour way,… i am experimenting on hydroculture out of old socks currently,.. nice vido!! great storry!! everyone should be allowed to camp out in respect to nature everywhere,.. thnks,.. our soul lives in our nature!!!

    2. TiredoftheBS!! says:

      What people need to do is start TAR & FEATHERING parties. These few people think they can control 300+ million. Time to show one by one they can’t. When will you people have enough!?!?

      • Mack T says:

        Tar & Feathering?
        I can think of much, much worst, for these busy bodies that like to tell us how to live.
        How about we inspect their homes???
        I bet I could find lots & lots of violations, like broken windows, broken doors, holes in their walls.
        Karma’s a bitch!

      • CommonCents says:

        Taking them down one by one will have zero effect because the evil ones/psychopaths do band together, but then there’s no honor among thieves…they are known to backstab each other, and quite frankly, they don’t care if some of their own die — they expect that to happen. They’ll just continue and carry on with their evil agendas.

        Problem is, no one is really stopping them. Even evil people don’t do what they can’t do and get away with, they do what they can do and can get away with… including evil people. If one knows they can’t break into a certain house, or if they do they’ll surely be caught, then they go to where they can break in and get away with it. Same applies with bank robbers. They rob where they can, not where they can’t. Same applies to the government and also those who want to take over our country. They do it because they can. Why do they do it?… because they can.

        Sad to say but the reality is that in the absence of non-psychopathic strong, powerful leadership and legitimate government, who really are all for ‘we the people’, and all on our side, we’re pretty much screwed.

        • Menzoberranzan says:

          CCents you are wrong. Killing these people one at a time will have a great effect on the willingness of the rest of the evil minions to continue their tyranny.

          • CommonCents says:

            Menzo – Yes, if killing them one at a time where the killing is consistent and ongoing so that there is uncertainty and they don’t know ‘who’s next’, or if they are next, and are pushed into a place of fear, sweating “I could be next” then yes, I agree. But haphazardly, with no consistency, using one or two here and there as an example will have zero effect on the mind the evil psychopath.

            In fact, since they approach everything in life as a game with a winner and a loser (even marriage, etc.) that approach will be perceived by them as a game that they MUST win. They only let go of their power when forced and with no way out.

            Inspiring fear and terror in evil people where they know they are cornered does work and is quite effective, while inspiring anger or rage ALWAYS backfires. They are not hardwired like normal people and can’t be dealt with as if they are normal with an evil spirit than can change.

      • Stolz Vorfahren says:

        TiredoftheBS: The problem is the 300+ million want to be controlled by the few with some very minor exceptions. When majority of folks are being conditioned to become more and more dependent for somewhen else to provide for them, when they have been conditioned to act wealthy while being poor both mentally and economically and many other factors corporate made factors making robots out of the ordinary people then I must say there is no chance for self correction. The main issue not only in the USA but simply the entire planet is such that majority of folks simply don’t understand the true definition of freedom and to be free.

        All is by design and the minority of awaken and truly freedom lovers will be destroyed by the elites simply because they are the minority. Sad but true.

        Looks at our own country named US of A. Many on this site blame everything and everyone from illegal aliens to the god damned lizards in the desert of the SW Vs the criminal multi national corps. Banking cartels who are the main culprits and the designer of this current state of affair.

        People scream for Donald Trump as the new messiah because he just tell them what they like to hear while no one can understand that that a millionaire, billionaire and zillion are
        doesn’t give a damn about ordinary people. Hell even the food stamp receptionist won’t give a damn for their peers. yes…the elite have been successful to divided us and by divide I mean to destroy our souls from being a FREEMAN.

        • Acid Etch says:

          The Trumpler has flip flopped on all his major positions and stabbed all his friends in the back. He was butt boy to Hillary and Nancy P. but now he bad mouths them.


        • Braveheart says:

          Stolz, I couldn’t agree more. My relatives in north GA are basically their own prepper community. Although they’re on the grid, everyone of their homes has solar for backup and can go with solar only if necessary. They all have wells with hand-pumps for backup in case of electric pump failure. The BOL where my supplies are has a solar system for backup and can also become the primary power source if need be. There is a well and a year-round creek borders one side of the property. They all have fireplaces with inserts and/or woodstoves and are surrounded by a lifetime supply of firewood. Most of them have some livestock and their own gardens in addition to food storage. They all grew up on farms so raising crops is nothing to them. They all learned how to handle guns, hunt, fish, forage, etc. at the earliest possible ages and pass on those same skills from one generation to the next. That’s the lifestyle I’ll be adopting after I bugout. I’ve got another supply run to the BOL scheduled in 3 weeks; could turn into the bugout depending on events.

    3. PO'd Patriot says:

      Well when you try to shoulder past your so called “betters”, you stir their ire. How dare you? Had enough yet? There is NO PLACE to run to and no where you can be left alone. You’ll have to decide if its worth fighting for or just succumb to your betters.

      • passinwiththewind says:

        I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. The liberals are turning peoples lives into a bundle of regulations so they can control people that are not like them.

        The mentality of liberals, has at it’s core, demonic forces that override any semblance of compassion for, what they deem as, lower classes of people.

        The entities of gov, from the fed all the way down to local levels, is mostly run by liberals, donkeys and elephants alike.
        If they don’t neccessarily house a liberal mindset, it is most likely a worldly/pc one; that is damn well close.

        Next thing the Illuminati controlled leaders and Utilities will do, is propose a “minimum of use fee”. Isn’t that what Obola Care is?

        • CommonCents says:

          I know people in California who said that while selling their home, that they had already vacated and moved out due to the drought or eminent domain, and had the utilities and water turned off so the house would be less appealing to squatters, were forced to pay a ‘minimum use fee’ of $50 per month each, for water and utilities — a hundred bucks a month for NOT using the water and utilities!

        • ChuckInBama says:

          The part about liberals that I like is that while they are spouting off their propaganda and think they are high and mighty, they’re getting weaker and weaker. When the time comes, Brothers and Sisters, they will be incapable of defending themselves from what will be.

          • Truthy1 says:

            Let’s stop dancing around the truth here ! Liberals are Lucferian’s in disguise hence no compassion and a superiority complex. No Souls and inhumane goals. Republicans and Democrats (representatives) are made up of the same type of people playing opposing roles ! We are no longer a Country led by the Teachings and Morals of The Supreme Creator, having prayers removed from the Senate,Congress and Schools The greatest deception the Devil has pulled on the masses is that he doesn’t exist and that it is he who is the bearer of light. Test everything and discern for the truth.

            • Truthy1 says:

              Now fifty or seventy years ago, when an ethical or moral question arose, people and governments looked to the churches. Now they don’t any longer.”

              • TEST says:

                Truthy…. as Dostoyevsky wrote (and he DID say this, BTW) “If there is no God *everything* is permissible”

              • hillybillywilly says:

                Correct me if I’m wrong but back in the 50’s and 60’s, when there was prayer allowed in schools, exactly WHAT was your government up to at that time. Testing LSD on unknowing citizens, trying to test the effects of nuclear radiation on unknowing citizens, engaging in a never ending propaganda campaign about how we were backing corrupt and murderous national leaders because they were our ” allies”, sending off young men to die in wars for the benefit of well connected government military contractors, trying to push the limits of sanity by thinking WE could actually WIN a nuclear war? Talk about mind control through media, there were only 4 television channels then, 3 of them national. That was 3 places you could get your tv news from, only 3. Must have made it pretty damned easy to control public opinion about everything government wanted to, eh? So, these are just SOME of the things that were going on when prayer was allowed in schools and congress, didn’t seem to effect much of the dirty business that was going on back then did it.

          • Braveheart says:

            ChuckInBama, spot on. They won’t be able to defend themselves because they are against gun ownership. they will pay the ultimate price for that position.

            • Braveheart:

              Respectfully, I disagree. The liberals who are pushing for gun control are not against gun ownership for themselves, they are against gun ownership for you and me. As for the deceived liberal innocents who parrot the lies, why take delight in their future demise. I have loved ones who believe all the lies. I don’t relish the misery of others. Better to bring back the errant son than to embrace the good son. I don’t believe the bible is word for word the inspired word of God. I do believe their is much to be learned from it. If you are all Christians how about a little Christian mercy.

              • Braveheart says:

                B from CA, I know you mean well and I enjoy your posts, so let’s agree to disagree on this one. Maybe secretly some of them do own guns, but I won’t tolerate them or anyone else trying to disarm me. they will be signing their own death warrants.

        • troll-o the clown says:

          Why do you think it’s JUST the liberals? You think republicans are going g to be a better lot?

          Reduction of government is the only answer to help us. Vote libertarian and vote to reduce government.

        • sixpack says:

          “The liberals are turning peoples lives into a bundle of regulations so they can control people that are not like them.”

          I hate to point this out, passin, but the conservatives, the left, right and in the middle are doing the same thing. It’s not just a ‘liberal’ thing, it’s a POLITICIAN thing.

      • Braveheart says:

        PO’d Patriot, the last time I checked, the people who think of themselves as “betters” are LIBTURDS. I never saw anything special about libturds in my whole life. You’re damned right the self-sufficient lifestyle is worth fighting for. Let’s see these turds try to pull this shit on my family in GA. Someone will die and it WON’T be my kinfolk either.

    4. Gonetoolong says:

      This is absolutely fucking nuts. This needs to be fought tooth and nail-literally, pull their fucking teeth and nails out. Our country is going insane folks. I don’t know what else to say.

    5. Oruval says:

      Bullshit. Carbon footprint. Eat shit bro. Cry a river elsewhere. I bet your ass you buy food from the grocery store

      • TEST says:

        Carbon footprint? I am a Canadian who hikes a lot in the Canadian Rockies. In fact, I was just dong this two weeks ago.

        Early pictures from the area vs. today show much glacier recession, at least for some glaciers, such as Bow Glacier, which is the source of the Bow River. The hiking book Classic Hikes in the Canadian Rockies shows this glacier around 1900. If you go there today, the same glacier is much, much receded.

        BUT here is the rub. The same anti-science types, who think science is determined by “consensus” (of which there is none, not even close) rather than **experimentation and hypothesis testing**, unthinkingly look at this and make utterly unwarranted conclusions. The fact of the matter is that there was something called the Little Ice Age (LIA, also known as the Dalton Minimum) the nadir of which was around 1790 to 1830. The simple fact is that this was one of the coldest periods since the Ice Age, and we are still emerging from this. THAT, mon ami, is why the Bow Glacier – and its sisters – have receded: we are still emerging from that LIA. This is why, according to the Archeological Survey of Canada, the tree line was 100 km. NORTH of where it is today during the MWP (Medieval Warm Period, which was preceded by the similar Roman Warm Period. Incidentally, that emergence from the Little Ice Age has stopped over the past dozen years – there has been ZERO global warming since 1998, which now even the co-opted IPCC admits, as did Phil Jones at Hadley , the lead global warmer – until ClimateGate forced him to resign (and you’ll notice the leftists and Agenda 21 scamsters hope you’ll forget Climategate… along with Lois LernerGate

        More evidence. Kegwins’ study in Nature on marine radioistopes shows that we are, today, still BELOW the 3,000 year average. If you google “Dr. Tim Ball+picea glauca” or go to you will find a white spruce stump on the coast Canada’s Arctic Ocean, dated about 5,000 years ago, and NOWHERE near today’s treeline. Of course, no one on the left has the intellectual honesty to address any of this.

        The reality is that the left, the BIG GREEN MONEY, and the Agenda 21 types want to control energy, which allows them to control everything that touches, which is… well, everything

    6. USMC1982 says:

      Even if you own the land, you have to play by the rules. If its zoned in a way that RV’s cant be there then save your money until you can put a small house under roof and dried in. That being said, the blue ridge mountain area of the southeastern US is still affordable in places and the south will be the best part of the US to be in WHEN the economic collapse happens. The people here are less likely to go along with a crack down on off gridders.

      • GenEarly says:

        But to have to get a “camping permit” to camp on your own land?
        You know this is just more Agenda 21 UN controls at the targeted local level; Don’t You?
        The Appalachian Redoubt is “better” but none of us are safe from this ProgreSSive Gov. Tyranny.

        • Muddy says:

          Oh PUKE, another redoubt. Rawles wanna be. How Unoriginal.

          Old Remus, who wrote the Woodpile Report, once told me when I asked about living in Appalachia, “Don’t come.” Simple enough, outsiders aren’t welcome and we have our own way of doing things. Think about it, refugees and outsiders are generally unwelcome because they want to change things to make them like they were “back home”. Who wants their town Californicated???????

          • passinwiththewind says:

            Good point, Muddy.

            Liberalism and pc dosen’t mean shit to some of those old timers and the newer generations that grew up under them, as in down to earth Godly raising.

            Outsiders are scrutinized very harshly. When shtf, many that have stirred up shit and cost the Mountain people $$ and aggravation, may be finding new permanent homes. Some may even be of the earthen variety.

            Those, like some of the Floridians, that think they will just mosey up the I-75 and start pulling their big RVs into mountain communities, and be accepted, might just find their home on wheels, at the bottom of a ravine.

            • Braveheart says:

              Passin, in most cases that’s true. The only reason my family is letting me join them is BECAUSE I’m family and I believe as they do. Let some turd bureaucrats and/or enforcers come to their homes with that UN BS and they won’t come back out, period. My family will die on their properties before giving them up to anyone.

            • USMC1982 says:


              My family settled in the SW of Virginia in the 1700’s. I am a transplant to the ATL area. But soon will be in the N Ga mountains ( Lord willing ). I grew up in appalachia and what you are saying is true. The same qualities that will make it safer in a SHTF senario will also make it a dangerous place for some.

              • Braveheart says:

                USMC1982, it will be too dangerous for any and all invaders coming in attempting to impose their will on the good people of Appalachia. My family and I will do our part to make it so.

            • hillybillywilly says:

              Spoken like a REAL Christian alright, anybody who follows your line of thinking deserves to be first in line to go to hell.

              • Braveheart says:

                Hillybillywilly, I don’t care what anyone else does for themselves. I’m only saying let it be their own decision and not let anyone else coerce them into something they don’t want. I’m doing what I believe is best for myself and my family is doing what they believe to be in their own best interests as individuals. It’s the ones with evil intentions toward us who are signing their own death warrants.

              • passinwiththewind says:

                You missed the point. I am just callin’ it like i have seen it before. I did’t say it was right or wrong, or that I was going to do such.
                Think before you jump.

                No one will last very long if they come into prepper’s camps/bo communities/mtn. homes, if they are looking to just use others preps. Family first.

                You handle doesn’t fit your line of thinking. What kind of hillbilly would willingly give up his children’s food for a rich dumbass that didn’t prepare, when he had the chance?

                NONE, or he would be a bigger dumbass than the intruder.

          • Braveheart says:

            Muddy, Old Remus and anyone of my family can verify that for you. The only reason I’ll be in Appalachia is I have family there. And survival there is very feasible. Some of my ancestors settled in Appalachia and never left it.

        • Joe Biden says:

          I think the poster girl for ‘off grid’ living in Florida was using the city sewer system. She wanted to live ‘off grid’, but within a city and didn’t want to dig or smell an outhouse. Let’s be realistic here. ‘Off grid’ living is impossible in a modern city.

          I’m pretty sure the county in Kalifornia wanted to chase out the residents of Antelope Valley (which the county had for decades deemed a wasteland) so they could hand it to their developer buddies. The county had even made DVDs to pitch the area (before they started trying to chase people out) to developers.

      • Menzoberranzan says:

        Because we are armed to the teeth and know how to use our weapons here.

        • Anonymous says:

          swat comes up the driveway-the 50 cals come out–make them die for a paycheck–soon there will be no paychecks for anyone-no police ,no army , no towns, no counties we are days ,weeks or months away from a russian EMP, ONE BOMB EXPLODED 20 MILES UP IN THE CENTER OF THE US–THEY JUST HAVE TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR 80-90 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION TO DIE OFF–NO ELECTRICITY IT BRINGS THINGS DOWNTO FOOD, FIRE AND AMMO–NOTHING ELSE MATTERS-

      • Braveheart says:

        USMC1982, I already have family in north GA who have owned land there going back to the War Of 1812. They’ll die fighting for their homes if need be.

        • yupyup says:

          If that is true then they have not signed away their rights to the county (probably). Not sure if you have bought real-estate but there are clauses to sign away your rights to the county. That’s probably why the state requires an attorney on the closing (when a loan is involved). So, my reading of real estate law is if you owned the land before various enactments/laws then you have not agreed to those; and thus, they cannot kick you off. So, point is, keep the ownership in your family and never sign a contract with a clause giving away rights to the state/county/city.
          By the way, probably you can claim prior ownership if you descend from Creek as State of GA never paid them. But, of course, Creek have no army. 🙂
          yupyuo out

      • ADCU says:

        You are not informed or an idiot!
        This county IS REFUSING to issue camping permits to those who ALREADY OWN their land.
        Read the entirety of the piece or don’t comment.
        You buy land, then the county says you can’t camp on it unless you buy a permit and then the county says no to issuing permits.

    7. durangokidd says:

      FYI: There is currently a case in Federal Court in Boise Idaho in which the ACLU is suing the city over its Urban Camping Laws, saying that it is unconstitutional to say that people cannot sleep in their cars, or in public,by laying down “bedding”, etc.

      The ACLU has received support from the Dept of Justice who sent a letter to the Court saying that sleep is a necessary component to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; as sleep is essential to life and health. So this Administration is siding with the homeless population, many of whom are veterans.

      Once this Ruling comes down in favor of the homeless and against Urban Camping Laws, cities will have to do more to house these people, or leave them alone, wherever they are.

      In time it will also set a precedent against the Forest Service limitations on camping in a given area for “too long”.

      Engage your enemy or be enslaved by them, one Rule, Regulation, or Executive Order at a time !!! 🙂

    8. Homesteaders need to start their own political partys and get elected to the city councels. Then they can ward off these rediculous laws.

      Pass petitions to bring these new laws up to a county wide vote.

      get out in the community and gather support from residents other then off griders.

      • ENFP says:

        Good advice, Mona.
        When I moved to the town I am in they were fighting the agenda 21 regs re development in rural areas. State wanted to let our town develop only a 2 block area in the center of town. I had a degree in 3d world development issues, writing and research skills so I got involved and helped them develop a proposal we brought to the meetings using their own goals against them. We won the right to develop most of the area we acknowledge as our town.
        They filmed my speeches and have my name so some day I may pay for this involvement, but in the meantime we are a whole lot better off than areas that didn’t fight it.

    9. Bill Mills says:

      This is why you should buy land in hillbilly hollers. No one will know what (or if) you are building in the holler. Hillbillies are pretty much left alone, just watch that TV show “Appalachian Outlaws”.

    10. swinging richard says:

      I have never understood people who try to force others to live like they do.

    11. CommonCents says:

      I think this outrageous regulation is eventually going to spread to all states, except for maybe Alaska and Hawaii.

    12. ArmedPatriot says:

      When is it time to pick up our guns? You can either take it laying down or stand up for you believe.

    13. Former US Citizen says:

      Have you folks considered that ¨just maybe¨ it´s time to get out of the USA? I know that for many reasons not everyone can do it, but if it´s ¨doable¨ for you then quit making up excuses and get yourself and your family out ¨Land of the Free¨ – waiting till the day they have to pry your gun from your cold dead hand or send you off to the FEMA camp is just not smart.

      • PO'd Patriot says:

        And why? so we can leap from the fry pan and into the fire? Cut and run you say. Why should I? Let the powers- that-be cut and run or be buried.

      • CommonCents says:

        Former – And go where? Most places and countries are run by corrupt minds or they are to third-world or just not safe to live in, especially if you don’t speak the language.

      • Braveheart says:

        Former US Citizen, I have to agree with Common Cents and PO’d Patriot. I guess you don’t listen to news? The whole world hates us and most countries are not fit to live in by our standards. Take your pick; any country you want. There are people here who think there’s something about this land worth risking their lives for, yours truly included, so we’re going to stay and fight. You want to run, go ahead.

      • sixpack says:

        Name one country where I can live without some corrupt govt, or the locals, rolling me for my money. Where I can build what I want and be left alone, where they don’t skin me too bad at the market because I’m American. Where I don’t need to fear the local cartel killing me because they thought I saw their operation, or something.

        I don’t need all off the major perks, just fresh water, some power and maybe available internet connection. Someplace not on a major active fault line, or at the foot of an active volcano, or in the path of a tsunami would be preferable…

        Where, and how do I get there?

      • ENFP says:

        Former US, It is moving very fast in this country, but I think eventually the globalists will make it world wide. I don’t think they will succeed everywhere, but how do we know where to go. I truly believe the only way is to have a personal relationship with Jesus and be led by His Holy Spirit.
        A year ago I wanted to leave the US, but now I am looking forward to helping people here get through what is coming.

    14. Jim in Va. says:

      USMC1982; Bingo…just like the Scots came out of the mountains during the Revolutionary War and kicked British butt. When they finished they went back into the mountains.

    15. Jim in Va. says:

      There needs to be a turnover of these politicians to get back to basics and quit regulating everything people do. Even in the bush you can’t get away from rules….its all about the money!

    16. Live off the grid just do not tell anyone.

        • Anonymous says:

          If the local enforcers come and tell you to put in electricity – go do it – but don’t use it. Pay the $5 a month minimum charge and consider it a grid tax. If the enforcers say well and septic, go do it, even if it costs. You don’t have to use it and you will get your money back when you sell.

          • ENFP says:

            Wells and septics make you self-sufficient. It is public systems that enslave you.
            They don’t make Mennonites and Amish hook up to public electricity, but then they don’t live in cities.

          • ADCU says:

            Just ignorance. We live wayyy off the grid. The nearest power to my house is 10 miles away. Do you know how much you would pay to get electric to my house? There is another code in SanGre De Cristo land that any electric brought onto the land MUST be underground!
            Try this billing sheet.

      • CommonCents says:

        BAM – I doubt those living OTG who were told they had to hook up did not announce it. Most off-the-grid folks don’t trust the government, which is why they are OTG in the first place, so they are too low-key to announce it.

        TPTB have ways of finding out, it’s not hard. They know if a home/property is hooked up or not. When they don’t come a knocking it’s usually because they don’t have the manpower or the available manpower isn’t evil. Normal people don’t want any part of disrupting families and taking away their rights and freedoms – that’s where the evil people come in.

    17. TEST says:

      A study by John W. Dawson and John J. Seater (“Federal Regulation and Aggregate Economic Growth”)found was that there has been a huge increase in economic regulation and restrictions in the U.S. since World War II. They point out that ****these regulations have an economic cost.*** Like debt and demography, regulations reduce output. In fact, they estimate that had the level of regulation remained unchanged since the year I was born – 1948 – today’s GDP would provide every man, woman, and child in America with about $125,000 more in income per year.

      Land of the Free? When the First Congress enacted the original Crimes Act in 1790 (see ), there were only 17 recognized Federal crimes, and it was reasonable to assume that as long as a person was a law-abiding citizen, he was not at risk of arrest. Today, though, there are more than 4,500 Federal crimes — and many are so obscure that they are nearly indecipherable. In addition to the 4,500 Federal crimes, there are tens of thousands of Federal regulations. Many people commit criminal acts daily without even knowing they are doing so.

      The Federal Register – full of laws which apply to YOU, and is comprised of government agencies’ new regulations, proposed rules, and presidential papers – is, according to and Rep Randy Forbes (R—4th) 34,000 pages in length, and weigh 340 lbs. The Government Printing Office stated on June 14, 2011, the actual number of pages was 34,844 (but then, as pages are added every day, whose counting!), but that was actually just the running tally of the number of pages published in 2011 to date. According to Jim Hemphill, Ass’t to Dir. of the Federal Register, the 2010 total was actually 81,405 pages, of which “only” 46, 758 were dedicated to rules or proposed rules (whew! I was worried there for a minute!). The rest were agency hearing, meetings, investigations, etc.
      And no, I am NOT saying all regulations are bad. I *am* saying 4,500 federal crimes, with 34,000 pages of rules IS bad.

    18. TEST says:

      Below cited from the Freedom Center of Missouri. All these are from 2011. Please google Freedom Center of Missouri for corroboration, or see original story at

      No word yet if Obama is going to appoint a “Lemonaide Czar” to protect us from these budding tiny tot terrorists, but I’m sure that is next (Fast & Furious gun running A-OK, but perpetrating the nefarious acts of these kiddie lemonaide drug pushers will get them 10 – 20 breaking rocks in Leavenworth). This isn’t the America. Heck, even people in Stalin’s USSR would be aghast
      Aug. 6: Massachusetts State police shut down the stand of a 12-year-old refugee from Fukushima, Japan, who was selling green tea he brought with him when he and his family evacuated after the tsunami.

      Aug. 1: Police officers in Coralville, Iowa, ordered at least three sets of children to quit selling lemonade during the Register’s Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa unless they first got a vendor’s permit and a health inspection. This is the first known example of a coordinated set of shutdowns at a single time.

      July 19: In McAllen, Texas, authorities shut down a girl’s lemonade stand for failing to obtain a food permit and threatened a grandmother who protested with a $50 fine.

      July 17: Police in Appleton, Wis., inform children that despite legally selling lemonade and cookies in their front yard during an annual city festival for the past several years, a new city ordinance bans these sales. The reason? To protect licensed vendors from competition. How’s that for a great example of how America works?

      July 15: Cops in Midway, Ga., shut down a lemonade stand some children were running in their own front yard, saying the kids had to obtain a peddler’s license and a food license and pay $50 per day for a temporary business permit.

      June 16: A county inspector in Maryland closes kids’ lemonade stand and fines parents $500 for violating county law.

      June 10: The Philadelphia Department of Health shuts down a lemonade stand operated by a cancer charity because it lacked a necessary permit and — get this — didn’t install a hand-washing station.

      March 7: Officials in Hazelwood, Mo., said a cookie stand in a family’s driveway violated local ordinances and ordered an end to the Girl Scouts cookie sale.

      Feb. 26: Georgia police demanded the closure of a Girl Scout cookie stand until the girls obtained a peddler’s permit.
      Feb. 26: Savannah, Ga., officials determined that city ordinances require an end to a 40-year tradition of Girl Scouts selling cookies outside the historic home of the organization’s founder.

    19. This is a bit off topic, but, If the U.S. continues on its global rant of screwing with Russia, China, N. Korea, we could see an EMP here by this winter, and then its max. casualties. I live up north where its cold for 6 mo. out of the year. I’ve been having this sense lately of stocking up on things that will keep us warm through the winter. Wool blankets, Mr. Heaters, fire wood, etc. The off grid people will make it through the winter but the rest may not. Winter’s just around the next corner. Stay safe everyone, Rex

    20. TEST says:

      About your illegal garage sale….

      Under the Resale Round-up, promulgated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, if you sell any recalled item at a garage sale that has been banned, at a flea market, charity or garage sale – in person or online — you MUST consult the commission’s 24-page Handbook for Resale Stores and Product Resellers (pdf) and its Web site for a breakdown of what is verboten. Violators caught selling anything on the enormous list face fines of up to $100,000 per infraction and up to $15 million for a related series of infractions.

      But, please don’t worry! You are probably already in violation of something ELSE in the 34,000 page, 340 pound Federal Register (it’s only 17,000 pages if you are green and print on double sided paper, thankfully! Forbes say the number of pages is less, but really, who cares if it is 27,000, 29,387 or 34,000….

      Google Harvey Silverglates 3 Felonies a Day, which hypothesizes each one of us is guilty of three felonies a day

      Story above summarized from,2933,552021,00.html#ixzz1lqa4dSlT

      • sixpack says:

        Although I’m as sick of rules, regulations and laws as the next, there IS wisdom in nit allowing someone to resell recalled items that are unsafe—like might burst into flames without notice, children’s toys that contain lead-based paint, or whatever. Some crooked wholesaler (think Asian) would kill hundreds of people and never blink.

        SOME rules make sense…the rest are just govt revenue sources.

        • Braveheart says:

          Sixpack, spot on. My retired state trooper cousin once told me only 5% of the laws on the books have a legitimate basis to them and the remaining 95% are BS, revenue sources just like you said.

      • ENFP says:

        And Test, this is the reason for those regulations, to threaten anyone who rocks their boats, fails to fink for them, report the truth they don’t want reported, etc. We live in a fascist dictatorship.

    21. TEST says:

      I haven’t spent time verifying this, but it sure sounds about right!

      ** Pythagorean theorem:………….. 24 words.
      ** Lord’s prayer:…………………. 66 words.
      ** Archimedes’ Principle:……….. 67 words.
      ** 10 Commandments:………………. 179 words.
      ** Gettysburg address:…………… 286 words.
      ** Declaration of Independence :……. 1,300 words.
      ** US Constitution w/ all 27 Amendments:7,818 words.
      ** US Government regulations on sale of cabbage:…26,911 words.

      Extra credit: The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living

      Off topic, but extra extra credit: When do the fascist, Brownshirt gay religion uber alles gaystapo types start their book burnings with those who dare to disagree with them? I give it about a year

    22. Kelsey says:

      I have a question that sort of relates to the above article. What happened to the show Doomsday Preppers? Before you skewer me over this show which was a little weird, do you not find it strange that Doomsday Preppers, the highest rated show on Nat Geo Channel, is suddenly off the air with no re-runs? Not a peep about it. This relates to the above article in that anything remotely resembling a “movement” is vilified. Be it folks living off grid or a TV show upholding the concept of personal thought. I used to think Doomsday Preppers was not worth watching, but I kind of miss it now. Any ideas on what happened to it?

      • Chilton says:

        Good point, I was actually wondering that myself the other day. It was entertaining to watch and if you could get past the silliness of it I actually learned a few things. But more importantly I bet it helped wake up thousands of more Americans. Contact NAT GEO and ask them to air it again.

        • Kelsey says:


          Yeah, I learned a few things from it too. There may have been a few kooks on the show, but many of those families were ordinary Americans who did the best they could to prepare. No harm in that. I will write NGC and see if I can find out anything, but I bet they were “asked” to take it off the air as it was riling up the masses. I’m surprised that more preppers aren’t asking the question of what happened to Doomsday Preppers, not because they liked or disliked the show, but because of WHO was behind its removal. I liken the removal of Doomsday Preppers to the removal of Tim Tebow from football – both were popular and good, yet they were removed for what they represented.

          • Archivist says:

            Some of the people were made to appear to be kooks. For example, David Sarti (ht tps:// has an engineering degree, but they ignore that. It’s comical to yankees because he is a southerner from middle Tennessee and wears comfortable overalls.

            NatGeo is still airing repeats of “Doomsday Preppers,” along with a number of other prepper-related shows.

        • Archivist says:

          NatGeo is still airing “Doomsday Preppers.” Season 3, Episode 5, “Total Destruction,” will be airing in 8 hours (5 AM). You just have to check the schedule. They quit making new ones last year. I think they ran out of preppers crazy enough to blow their OPSEC and allow television to make fun of them.

          NatGeo’s website won’t work properly in either of my browsers, so I had to find the listings at another site:

          ht tp://

          • Braveheart says:

            Archivist, I learned more from my late wife and family about prepping than any TV show could ever teach me. I ditched my TV service 2 and a half years ago and never saw the show but heard plenty about it. Plus I also learn a lot more online and here at this site.

            • Archivist says:

              One thing I learned from “Doomsday Preppers” is that the guy who put the insulation in my attic has a really big gun safe. And he doesn’t live that far away. I couldn’t believe that a well-known area businessman would blow OPSEC that badly.

    23. Azreal says:

      I don’t usually violate opsec like this, but Stewart County Tennessee is one county that is freedom loving and dosen’t mess with folks. Tennessee requires septic permits and electrical on new construction. That is the only thing Stewart County “enforces” wink wink. If you dont hook to the grid then it’s a mute point. I got a “temporary” construction meter that had to be inspected. I put a 50 amp camper outlet on the pole and passed with flying colors. It costs more per month for the meter, $35 as aposed to $25.

      Here is how I worked around the system. In order to get an address you needed to have a footer or basement dug. (I think this come out of Fed Regs) The county guy came out and GPSed the basement hole and gave me an address. I then put in water meter and the electric coop put a power pole at the edge of my property for $50. (I didn’t want to establish a power company right of way by bringing the wire in further than necessary.) I hung the meter box, weather head and breaker box 200 amp under the meter. I then hung the 50 amp camper box below that. Had it inspected and the power company put the meter in. Now I had power. Parked my 30′ camper on property and I was in business. Lived there 8 months. Built a cabin (not on basement hole, I have different plans for that) and had the water and power cut off. I have a guerilla septic system and no one really cares. The way the State wants it done is to have septic system approved and then you can get permanent eletric service, for a cheaper meter rate. I would just leave the power pole as is an run wire to cabin underground if I ever wanted to turn it back on. Cost more, but since I have lot of trees, they wont come around and “trim” them. No right of way. Woke up one morning to the sound of grinding and a huge amount of racket. Power company was clearing my next door, hundereds of feet away, neighbor trees from around the power wire. Couldnt see her house from the road before. Now she had a 50 foot wide and 200 foot long path to her house, with a wire above. They had cut down and ground up all of the trees in between. Horrible. Got to outsmart the rules and learn to work around them.

      The Sheriff lives around the corner and is cousins to my very cool neighbor accross the street. Sheriff has added on to his house himself. Actully built a second larger house in front of the old one.

    24. thomas says:

      537 hangings on the U.S. Capitol stairs and about a dozen on the lawn of each state Capitol would cure a lot of this foolishness.

    25. Azreal says:

      Forgot to add. Except for the previously mentioned permits, no other permit was pulled for my cabin. I had a builder come and he and i talked about what I wanted and just built it. No fuss no muss.

    26. Asshat says:

      Around here you have to have water and sewer electric is optional. Your gonna pay property taxes no avoiding that but it is cheap mine is $3100 a year I could swing that working at Walmart. People digging a hole to shit in is fine if you have enough land to do it. The big problem off grinders have is they live in shacks and run down campers. The lifestyle is kind of poverty like. I’m cool with it but the rich types don’t like it. It’s just how it’s viewed. The best thing off grinders can do is keep it clean don’t live like bums change the perception of off grid lifestyle. I think this would make a difference. It’s not a crime to live simple IMO I do it too. I don’t live off grid but if I can do things myself to save a buck I do it. Off grid folks need to join together to have legislation made to protect the lifestyle. The thing is if there are laws against it people don’t like then they need to push to turn over these laws. It’s not like laws can’t be changed. If nobody challenges it then it will stand.

    27. Asshat says:

      The question is are people really happy living off grid. It seems harsh to live this way and much less fruitful. I understand human pride and dignity being able to take care of ones own needs but on a third world level is not what is correct politically. The us gov goes into other countries and tries to impose there will on tribal areas to modernize. This changes culture just look what it has done to native Indian tribes in your areas. The problem with living this way is it’s not sanitary compared to modern living. Could you imagine the smell if everybody shit in their backyards especially in more urban areas. Don’t tell me it would be fine. It would be better than throwing your shit out the windows. I’d do it in a serious long term event. I’d also burn my trash too if I needed. Bacteria killed people back in the pioneer days. Those things seem to not be talked about in reference to pioneer living.

      • Cologuy says:

        You do understand what a septic system right? A number of neighborhoods around where I live have homes with septic systems and wells. These are older houses that were built before water and sewer were run to the outlying areas. Then new neighborhoods grew up around the older homes with city water and sewer. The older homes still have wells and septic systems.

        Why do you see this as a problem?

        • Joe Biden says:

          Septic systems won’t fit on 1/4 acre lots.

          Well they’ll fit, but be quite stinky. Good luck with using well water with septic leach beds a few yards away.

          If you want to live off grid, figure on moving to the country and flying under the radar.

    28. Jenn says:

      I’d file discrimination case against them! They are making laws against a particular “class” of people!

    29. Freedom Woman says:

      Here’s the problem. Everyone is waiting for the SHIT. THEN they’re gonna do this and they’re gonna do that, and ain’t nobody better mess with me…..blah, blah, blah. Folks, the poo has already started to hit the fan, but like the proverbial frog being slowly cooked in the warm water that the heat gets gradually turned up on, we are all already screwed. You can blame whoever you want. Liberals, conservatives, neo-cons, neo-libs. The fact remains, we all sit by collecting our preps for that someday, and IT’S ALREADY HERE !!!!! What now?

      • jpl_texas says:

        FreeWoman: I agree; it has been subtly occurring for decades; there won’t be any immediate, obvious strike where everyone is scurrying away to safety. Capitalism (as implemented in the US) is prelude to communism; long term monopolies adsorb all capital and control means of wealth and majority become wards of the “state”.

    30. william smith says:

      I think when it has come time when enough people are tired of the tyranny being increasingly practiced by the federal and state governments, they will know what has to be done, and do it. As an old man I don’t look forward to it and I don’t think it will come anytime soon since most of the people of America are used to thinking themselves slaves to the gov’t, or are enjoying being on the dole. Perhaps when the dole runs out something bad and then something good will happen.

    31. passinwiththewind says:

      Asshat, you must live in Yankee land.
      I know you have a lot of growing up to do.
      Because of just two of your statements here….

      ” The big problem off grinders have is they live in shacks and run down campers.”

      You don’t have a clue as to how many off-gridders there are, nor how they live. Even if you did, wtf is it to you how they live as long as they don’t live on your land?

      Also said…… “I understand human pride and dignity being able to take care of ones own needs but on a third world level is not what is correct politically.”

      Just because you have kids, I think, I will not wish that you are left with no alternative, but to live like a turd worlder”

      You might change that “I’m better off than you attitude”.

      • troll-o the clown says:

        Passthewind – I have an off grid home in Arizona. My home has no city supplied water, sewer or electric. The services just aren’t available where my property is. I KNOW about off grid. While asshat isn’t 100% on point, he is right that a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people like this dude in the video want to live in a bus with 4 people for 15 to 20 years while they “build their dream home”. These people are unfortunately represent people who live off grid. Guys who don’t like to shower often, collect piles of rusting trash on their property and drink it up or smoke it up 6 days a week.

        For every person who has established a home (a real home, not a converted school bus or 50 year old winebego) there are at least 5 or 6 living as mentioned above. You KNOW that as well if you live in any community where there are off grid properties. So cut the bs.

        • passinwiththewind says:

          There is a big difference in people that live poorly and may or may not have good hygiene.

          i think what you are referring to is low-lifes.

          I have no compassion for low-lifes that steal and plunder, and are too sorry to work. That is way different than ordinary off-gridders.

          Off-gridders that choose to live off the land or off of inheritance, or whatever way they make it without welfare and/or thieving, have a God given right to live as stinky and trashy as they want to, on their own land.

          That lifestyle doesn’t make them any less of God’s children as long as they revere/respect/love, Him.

          So, cut your own bs, “Mr. troll is judgmental of people”.

      • smokey says:

        I must have missed his holier-than-thou attitude, I thought he was talking about the choice to live a sub-marginal existence.

        You can drill a well for a few thousand dollars. A septic system is several thousand. You can build a decent, nicely livable structure, maybe 1000 sf, for $30,000, using new materials and your own labor, in just eight or ten weeks. A designer can draw up plans for a permit submittal if it’s required for a few hundred bucks. Permits in rural areas like in the article are not expensive.

        A construction loan for $100,000, meaning well, septic, power to the property line, and your 1000 sf home can be had for $600-$750 a month, including interest, if you can’t do work yourself.

        I think what he’s saying is, if you’re living hand-to-mouth in that old school bus, even a menial job in town is going to get you $20,000 a year to put towards your digs, why the hell is it taking some folks years or decades to do so much as put in a septic field or a well?

        • Archivist says:

          Maybe because a menial job (minimum wage) won’t get you $20,000 per year, let alone that much extra for working on a house.

          Also, if you’re making minimum wage, there’s no way in hell you’re going to qualify for a $100,000 construction loan. The payments would take almost half your gross pay.

          • Braveheart says:

            Archivist, no one can qualify for ANY type of credit at minimum wage. I speak from experience. I tried to get a loan for a rural property I found back in 1997 and couldn’t get it. I was making $38000 a year at that time.

            • Braveheart:

              In 1997 that was before the bubble burst and anyone who makes $38,000.00 a year should have easily qualified. However you may not have ever established any credit. That is why prior to asking for a home loan or property loan buying something like a used car and making payments is a means to an end.

              On the other hand may be you convinced your banker that you had found the ideal location to build your dream house, and having all the info and your accolades about the desirability of said property, your banker decided to check it out for himself. I never brag about something I have or especially something I’m trying to acquire including but not limited to great lovers. Sorry for your loss. . Better luck next time. Check out my little joke below.

          • smokey says:

            There are 2000 hours in a work year, at $10 an hour that’s $20,000. That’s a 40-hour week, no overtime, no weekends, just a shift, for one person. If you’re so poor you’re living in a school bus with no power, water, heat, or septic, you’re only expenses are food and medicine, and you damn well better be working two or three of those menial jobs like the waitresses down in town, or you’re just coasting along.

            OK, I’m callous, I guess, but I don’t buy most of the sob stories I hear. That sad tale of woe would be a lot better if I didn’t see you sitting there yesterday, smoking a cigarette, drinking a $3 coffee, talking about what was on the cable TV last night.

            • Archivist says:

              First, at least around here, menial jobs don’t pay as much as $10. They’re more like $8. That’s less than $17,000 a year gross, probably more like $13,000 or $14,000 net.

              Second, you’ll never see me wasting money on cigarettes or coffee. I also don’t watch junk TV.

              Third, you greatly underestimate expenses. As an example, I tried a few years ago to get Blue Cross insurance. They gave me a monthly rate of $1,800, which comes to more than $20,000 a year. Needless to say, I declined their offer. I have managed to get on my wife’s group plan, but I’m still paying around $8,000 a year for insurance and medical.

              You combine that with a minimal grocery bill and a little bit for clothing, school supplies for children, and other necessaries, and you would be lucky to scrape together $100 a month for anything else.

              I have been there and know how it is to have to eat bologna sandwiches three meals a day and not have enough money to even buy a single soft drink. And when you’re laid off from that minimum wage job, the unemployment is even less. And you still don’t qualify for welfare if you’re a white male. I know because I tried.

              I hope I’ll never be in that fix again, but I remember how it was.

              • Braveheart says:

                Archivist, you and I have something in common. Bologna sandwiches? That’s better than what I had back in the 80s which was Vienna sausages with crackers. I did the 2-job deal from 1985-1991 just to keep my ass alive and pay off a lawsuit I lost in court, courtesy of the POS for a lawyer I had. Finally paid off all the legal shit in 1991. I was offered a considerable pay raise and promotion at my primary job so I ditched the 2nd job since my reason for needing it no longer existed. My lunches many a day were viennna sausages and some crackers along with a glas of tap water, I couldn’t afford sodas too often myself. Those times were a real bitch for me but I survived them and even starting thriving to some degree afterward. Been there, done that, sometimes wish I could forget it. I also know what it’s like to be dirt poor.

                • Archivist says:

                  Not just bologna sandwiches, but cheap chicken bologna sandwiches. I couldn’t afford the real stuff. And I drank Kool-Aid.

                  I survived without malnutrition by going to Mama’s for Sunday dinner each week.

                  • Braveheart says:

                    Archivist, once I got the raise and ditched the 2nd job, I started buying Koolaid and some sugar on a regular basis. I even ditched the viennas and started havin some decent meals again. man, I felt like I died and went to heaven.

    32. PatriotLRRP says:

      “When is it time to pick up our guns? You can either take it laying down or stand up for you believe.”

      The time for the quiet work is now, and it has already been time. The tyrants in high places in our govenment have been waging a quiet war against all U.S. citizens for quite a while now, and it only makes sense to wage quiet war against them also.

      The quiet war for American citizens to take part in, is the targeted assassination of the top tyrants in Amerca. Small groups (3 at the most) who are sworn to silence and determined to fulfill their missions. would be an ideal start. Effective armed resistance in the surveillance states of America will not begin by anyone gathering in the open. The tyrants in the surveillance states of America wish and hope for such an open display. They do not want anyone resisting who uses stealth and wisdom. This is why they desire to herd as many people as they can into cities where they can be monitored much more easily.

      Basic 101 for anyone who desires to take up the quiet work is do not bring your cell phone.

    33. Well, if the off-gridders refuse to comply, my cuz says the .gov pigs will show them some nice gated communities out that way.

      He gets out in 20 years…


      BTW, you are no longer invisible to the enforcers in hillbilly holler anymore. Hereabouts, the zoning pigs use Google Sky to keep an eye on what you build. That way they don’t have to get up off their fat ass and confront you in person. One neighbor questioned the rise on his taxes and was told that they saw he had built a pond and fountain out back by using Google.

      Anything with a permanent foundation (ie poured concrete) is considered an “improvement” and is taxable.

      The leech enforcers should be thanking the public every chance they get for their free ride instead of smacking them down. They have rode the tax donkey for so long and so hard it has become a broken down swayback.

    34. smokey says:

      I can see requiring a completed septic system before allowing occupancy, but power and a well? You can drill a well in a week, if you don’t have the bucks to put the well in, what are you doing moving there? Still, they can haul water and run a generator for a while, nothing wrong with that as long as they’re not dumping sewage.

    35. Asshat says:

      Troll understands what I’m saying. Passing I’m from Yankee land but that has nothing to do with what I’m saying. The off grid people around here are not doing it by choice they are doing it to survive. I’m ok with people living off grid but you still have to brush your teeth and shower. Just because your living off grid doesn’t mean you can be a slob. That’s what I mean about dignity. I know about septic systems I had a septic and it failed to drain anymore and I couldn’t run any water in the house for a few days till I could get a drain layer to tie me in to the sewer which was 30 ft from the house to the sewer. Septics need maintenence and need to be pumped once a year so it’s not something your gonna keep filling without a pumping. There is no free way to flush your troubles away. For me I’d rather have town sewer service. The cost is put into your property taxes and it’s cheaper than pumping out IMO. How you deal with you shit is your business but you need to have an approved way. The outhouse won’t work in a suburb like where I live if everyone did this the smell in the summer would be unbearable. I’m not a clean freak but bacteria is a killer. It is important. Outhouse on 100acres is fine I’d say your safe.

      • Archivist says:

        First, a septic tank doesn’t have to be pumped every year. If it’s working properly, it can go many years without being pumped. Where I grew up, the septic tank was pumped out only once in 15 years. Where I’m at now, it has to be pumped more often because the drainage isn’t quite as good as I’d like and I think the bacteria aren’t quite right.

        There’s no sewer out where I live, and hope there never is. A neighbor pointed out to me that if a sewer is ever installed, it would only be a matter of time before multi-family units would come in and ruin the neighborhood.

        Secondly, an outhouse isn’t bad if it’s operated properly. You need a pile of dirt beside the outhouse so you can add a shovel or two after doing your duty. You can also add some lime. Every house in my area used to have an outhouse. My house still has one that was built the same time the house was.

        Thirdly, even if I had to get my septic tank pumped every year, it would still be cheaper than city sewer. It only costs $100 to get it pumped, about half of what city people around here are paying for sewer.

        My outhouse is absolutely free. It’s already here. I own multiple shovels. And I have a huge yard full of dirt. The neighbors have goats and chickens, so there’s no way they will ever smell anything from my yard, if there was a smell.

    36. EastTNPatriot says:

      Do you people not get it?
      Challenge jurisdiction!
      If you are one of the people of (fill in the state you’re from)
      You own the government, the government owns the citizens. Which are you?

    37. William Wallace says:

      When are the sheeple going to wake up and realize that these pewny, usurping, self important government employees simply don’t have the authority to take away any of our rights especially since that would require them to violate their oaths of office. They should be treated like the criminals that they are. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    38. Warchild Dammit! says:

      I had to stop reading comments after Joes story.I will say,that had been me,would have gotten a list of all involved and demised them,I have really had it and am done fighting in the corrupt court system.The guy who dozed property just as guilty as the county officials ect.I really feel a lot of folks at this point or will be soon,time to really lay waste,and yes,realise tis your demise but setting a precedent for the future,and realise,many will disagree think I am a nut,but believe there are a few million nuts out there that have been pushed far enuff and are at a “Don’t give a fuck moment”,time to go check the moon again.

    39. Old Guy says:

      Its the tax revenue and fees they want. I once lived in a rented house in town. On the monthly water bill where things like mosquito control, sidewalk fund, garbage pickup and a swimming pool tax. If too many folks go off grid that source of revenue drys up. Here where I now live they added a 911 fee to the phone bill. They are mad because folks get rid of the hardline and buy a cell phone. and they cant tax the cell phones. Its all about the money. the parasites must have ever increasing amounts of tax revenue.

    40. Babycatcher55 says:

      Starve the parasites…..

    41. csaaphill says:

      Cliven Bundy time I say.
      People standing up to this tyranny the old fashioned way is the only thing that’s going to change this country.
      the quicker the better.

    42. Asshat says:

      It’s $200 or more for a pump out here maybe my tank was no good. My neighborhood is already developed and there is no way they could build multi family housing with no developable land. The sewer is cheaper here don’t need lime or dirt. But hey if you feel like trying to get the bacteria right so you don’t have to pump fine. I was told by the honey wagon guy that you need to pump once every other year but since I had and older system and 5 people using it to pump yearly. Where I live is considered the best part of town. Only 1family homes with fenced yards. It cost me $2000 for a tie in to the sewer. An available sewer meant I couldn’t just build a new septic. This is law around here and they will force you tie in eventually anyway. It’s better for me I flush and that’s the end of it.

    43. Dave says:

      Nomadic life maybe the life of survival –

    44. ghr2293 says:

      our forefathers repealed under fear of death, a foreign army for much less provocation than we see during these times of conflict.

    45. yupyup says:

      Similar thing happened in NC … they recently required license tags for mopeds. Next year, they will require insurance.

      This stuff is all about the dollar. The county wants to enslave the landowner to renting ala property tax. The utilities man wants to get his pint of blood. And the insurance companies want their pounds of flesh.

      The governments in the USA are nothing more than extensions of a business system.

    46. 2isone says:

      We built our house in 2013 as part of a retirement/strategic relocation plan. We had code inspectors crawling all over it for months. Now, the best thing for us to do in our situation was be friendly as they did their checks, and most of the checks were actually to our benefit. They completely functioned with class envy though- and made derisive comments about what “they” would do if they were building such a nice house. We grinned and bore it. Our house is designed like a fortress, but you would never know that from outside. We jumped through all the hoops we needed to jump through and have our water reservoir (dunk pool) elevated in a gated courtyard 14 feet off the ground. Our metal roof produces water runoff every morning because of condensation. We designed a portion of it to take solar film and may work towards that in the near future.

      Almost all of our inspectors with the exception of the new hire pool inspector, had really smarmy attitudes and liked pushing their weight around. They still drive back here occasionally to see if they can “catch” us doing nonpermit work. But thanks to a little building boom in the area, we are now mostly off their radar.

      • yupyup says:

        funny story about a city inspector in Florida… my friend’s cousin got that job. Zero actual construction experience. Apparently he knew someone and lied on his resume. No doubt his story is the same all over. I’ve had several home inspections done when buying a house and zero were worth a damn. I will bet could walk into ANY home after a home inspector and find 10 things wrong. I wonder if building code inspectors are like that. I hope not; but my friend’s story suggest at least some are.

      • smokey says:

        Did the same thing here, just one inspector, though. He was a totally good dude once he saw the code had been met, which really isn’t difficult. Talking to him, learned that to get to be a code inspector requires not much more than a high school diploma from whenever and a technical training course, maybe 40 hours worth. Most of the inspectors he worked with were former construction workers who weren’t up to snuff in production work but thought they should be running the show. The building recession forced the county to get rid of all of them but the one, and he wasn’t about to cause anyone problems as long as they met the code.

    47. Illini Warrior says:

      Just another one-sided article that avoids bothering to give all the facts …. I’m sure the local gooberment was willing to discuss the situation – why bother when BS sells …

      Somewhere in between is the real story about why the local gooberment is taking action …. from an outwards look the county is becoming a hodge podge of a trailer camp and tent city with little effort – or the resources – to ever comply with zoning laws ….

      A guy that’s lived there 20 years and living in a temp home – come on already …..

    48. jpl_texas says:

      Wherever you live; you have to consider the person across the property line. Keep your property straight and no problems. Nobody wants to live in site of a bunch of tarped up, ramshackled, non-sense for an indefinite amount of time. Developed communities live with a rule set because they don’t want a bunch of free range crap. What protects your property value and pleasure is the prevention of some joker coming in next door to set up his rural junk yard in the name of freedom. Cut the shit and keep America beautiful.

    49. Diane D says:

      For 14 years since 9/11 the Tyrant has systematically destroyed our liberties and freedoms. You know that each time you complained about the ‘injuries and usurpations’ you were ‘put on a list’. You know that one day those lists will be distributed to jack-booted thugs. Free speech was not free. There will be a price to pay.

      Folks, this is serious. It is time for each of us to answer this question. Are you willing to pledge to each other your Life, your Fortune, and your sacred Honor?

    50. Pine 4 Better Daze says:

      If it was Muslim “refugees” moving there, there wouldn’t be a problem. The government would support that!!

    51. Btruth says:

      Call to arms! Only war will end this rampant fascism!

      • Anonymous says:

        That has already apparently been being waged. The mainstream media just label it and dismisses it as what the government wants the masses to call it: “crime” or “murder suicide”, etc.

    52. Beano says:

      REMOVE the communist negro sodomite and all of this will go away.

      • Anonymous says:

        No, it won’t. He is only a “Manchurian candidate” for the Cheney-Bush gang. This has their Big Business fingerprints all over it. Getting a lily-white good ol’ boy back in there won’t change anything for the better but, it will please the bigots and return them to the side of the powers-that-be, like are the cops on this site.

    53. Anonymous says:

      This is very similar to the Enclosures in England during Tudor and even up until more modern times. That effectively created the landless labour class that is still the mainstay of that, now socialist state. The same old neo-medieval tricks are up the sleeves of American rulers. The Jeffersonian dream of free, independent yeomanry living on their own land but not enslaving others on it is being squeezed out. It’s being replaced by Alexander Hamilton’s, George Washington’s and the other Federalists’ dream of neo-empire ruled over by their gentry class only with everyone else as their serfs or slaves.

    54. Anonymous says:

      When the elites’ Big system is gone, they won’t have anything to demand the people to comply with, no more than the people have to defend themselves with to try to enforce it on the people and, no mollified dependent people to bleat for its preservation like they do now.

    55. Anonymous says:

      But, the billionaires get to keep their property and tax the ones deprived of theirs to never be able to repay the trillions derivatively borrowed from their buddies, Communist China, to bail the billionaires out….

    56. Joke my father told me.

      A man died and was met by an angle who escorted him to hell. The man looked down a long hall with several doors. The angle told the man to look inside each door and choose one where he would spend eternity.
      Upon opening the first door he was horrified to see a small group of souls burning and writhing in agony. He quickly closed the door and went to the next door, where he saw a large number of souls raping and performing all kinds of unspeakable atrocities upon each other. The man closed the door and went to the last door and opened it. Inside was a huge gathering of souls waiste deep in shit drinking coffee.
      The man thought to himself “that doesn’t look that bad”. He turned to the angle and said “door number three”. The angle promptly opened the door. The man walked inside and the door slammed behind him. Once inside he noticed a devil standing along the outside. The devil pushed the man into the lake of shit and handed the man a cup of coffee. Taking the coffee the man started taking a sip and again thought to himself “this doesn’t seem to bad”.
      Ten minutes passed and the devil said: “Fifteen minute break is up, everybody, heads down”.

    57. Useless Eater says:

      I’ll just comment on the headline alone:

      US citizens. Jurisdiction. Slavery. Consent. Bliss.

      • yes, it is my understanding that the ‘united states’ and the ‘united states of america’ are NOT the same. one is an artifical nation (like all the others) and one is a corporate fiction that includes guam, peurto rico, the virgin islands and the district of colombia. essentially, to be a ‘citizen’ of the united states is to be an employee and therein the direct slavery began.

        you don’t ‘love this country’. what you love is free will and balance – neither of which are fully manifesting on earth at present.

    58. Zoning is a communist concept because it always leads to the abolition of private property in land. Like so many evil ideas, it began in New York City at the beginning of the twentieth century and spread from there. The Supreme Court failed to abolish it in a case in Euclid, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland in the 1920s, another source of a lot of bad ideas.

    59. Funny, Amish people live off grid and no one forces them to connect. Maybe all off grid people should start a religion?

    60. molan_labe says:

      If this doesn’t tell you that the corporation of the united states insists you remain a consumer, I don’t know what till. They’ll literally wring every dime from you until you die.

    61. sharonsj says:

      You need to realize the problem is the utility companies and the politicians they bribe. I don’t know if hiring a lawyer will get you anywhere, but throw out as many local politicians as you can–if enough off-gridders live in one area, they should be able to vote out lousy reps.

      The next is banding together and refusing to allow anybody to come on your land; there is always safety in numbers and I doubt the government wants another Ruby Ridge on their hands.

    62. danny says:

      I just bought land in 4.6 miles outside of San Luis and I don’t have water rights to dig my own well and the only way for me to have water is to have it trucked in so there is no way to hook up to the city water supply before I can build on my own land. Now there saying I can’t even camp on it… The 5 or so ranchers down there that run that county need to be told they can’t ranch any more on their own land so they can feel what it’s like to keep everyone down like they are notorious for doing to everyone else that moves in there as you can see here. Corruption… just WOW!


      Off-the-grid newcomers have won a major victory in Costilla County, Colorado, as county commissioners shelved a plan to require water, septic tanks and electricity for building permits.

      Proposed changes to the county’s zoning regulations would have effectively prevented many residents from building homes on off-grid properties they purchased in Costilla County, Colorado Public Radio and Off The Grid News previously reported. Dozens of off-grid residents may have been forced out of the county, simply because they couldn’t meet the requirements. Some, for example, are using composting toilets.

      The proposed changes made national news last week when a story about a dispute between long-time county residents and off-the-grid residents was picked up by news outlets as far away as San Francisco. A shouting match outside a county commissioners’ meeting on the issue had led to the arrest of one resident.

      County Backs Down

      But the county shelved the proposed land-use code changes on Oct. 1, Colorado Public Radio (CPR) reported. No reason was given, but the action followed a number of media stories.

      “We all felt like it became a distraction,” the county’s chief administrative officer, Ben Doon, said, according to CPR.

      Doon now believes that the county’s existing code is adequate to handle the situation.

      Off-grid residents cheered the news.U.S. County Running Off-Gridders Out Of Town

      “This can be a very positive development for the community that all of this happened,” Chloe Everhart, a newcomer who was critical of the changes, told CPR. Everhart had been organizing opposition to the new code. “Maybe we can start working together to solve some things that have been problems for a very long time.”

      The inaction by the commission doesn’t solve the problem of camping permits. Some off-gridders have camped at their sites for long periods of times – which led the county to stop issuing long-term permits.

      Property owner Bob Pinnick alleged that a code enforcement officer that came to his property was wearing body armor and a pistol, a local newspaper, The Conjeos County Citizen, reported. The officer was accompanied by an armed sheriff’s deputy.

      ‘There’s a Misunderstanding’

      The officer was apparently there to evict Pinnick, saying he was illegally camping out on his own property. Costilla County’s land use code requires a permit for camping for more than 14 days, even if it’s on a person’s own land.

      Pinnick wanted to camp there while he built a home.
      FB-Bob Pinnick plrace

      Photo by Sylvia Lobato Bob Pinnick stands outside the RV he is using for a residence while he builds a home on land he owns above Colo. 159.

      “We have sought the necessary permits, but we can’t get them,” another resident identified only as Leslie said.

      Said another resident, known as Sundance, “There’s a misunderstanding of what we are doing here. Off the grid just means you’re setting up your own infrastructure.”

      Costilla County is located near the city of San Luis in southern Colorado, a sparsely populated rural area. The region was divided into tens of thousands of lots many years ago but most of the lots were never developed because there is no water, road maintenance or electricity.

      That makes the lots very cheap, so people with little money buy them to develop off-the-grid homes.

      The moral of the story is clear: Never believe what a realtor or developer selling cheap land tells you about land-use regulations. Check with the zoning department before you buy if you want to avoid a legal conflict with the local government.

      • ADCU says:

        VERY happy to hear of the success!
        NOW, if we can PLEASE just get some national headlines about the Judge and her live-in girlfriend who is the DV Evaluator the judge orders you to go see after the Judge ‘finds’ you guilty of domestic violence, you then must go to her “Spouse” to have these ridiculous findings ‘verified’.
        Please contact me at my email, there’s a pending lawsuit in the District and this judge has been recused because of this relationship before (the judge just seals the recusal and continues unabated) and multiple fathers are in the exact same boat, no criminal history; judge finds you a DV perp; sends you to her “Spouse” to verify you are in fact a DV perp. SICKENING!!! Please help me get this out!!!

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