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Paul Vs. Gingrich on Patriot Act, Liberty, and Security

Mac Slavo
November 23rd, 2011
SHTFplan.com
Comments (146)

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and Congressman Ron Paul debate the Patriot Act and its implications for America.

Do we repeal the act, as Ron Paul would prefer, or do we strengthen it to further expand the government’s anti-terrorism capabilities?

Gingrich: I think looking at it carefully and extending and building an honest understanding that all of us will be in danger for the rest of our lives. This is not going to end in the short-run and we need to be able to protect ourselves from those who, if they could, would not just kill us individually but would take out entire cities

No, I would not change it. I’m not aware of any specific change it needs and I would look at strengthening it because the dangers are literally that great….again, very sharp division. Criminal law, the government should be, frankly, on defense and you’re innocent until proven guilty. National security – the government should have many more tools in order to save our lives.

Ron Paul: Why I really fear it is we have drifted into a condition we were warned against

…Don’t be willing to sacrifice liberty for security. Today it seems to easy that our government and our Congresses are so willing to give up our security. I have a personal belief that you never have to give up liberty for security. You can still provide security without sacrificing our Bill of Rights.

…This is like saying we need a policeman in every house, a camera in every house…

…You can prevent crimes by becoming a police state. If you advocate the police state, yes, you can have safety and security, and you might prevent a crime, but the crime then will be against the American people and against our freedoms and we will throw out so much  of what our revolution was fought for, so don’t do it so carelessly.

 

The consensus among the majority of republican and democrat candidates is that maintaining the status quo is the only way forward in the war on terror. Contrary to what Speaker Gingrich argues is a separation between criminal law and war powers, what we have seen over the last decade is an ambiguous merging of the two, where unlawful acts that should fall under the jurisdiction of criminal law are being increasingly categorized as acts of terror.

The Patriot Act has certainly expanded the powers of police surveillance and enabled militarization and weaponization of domestic law enforcement agencies in the name of fighting terror. While there undoubtedly exists a threat against the American people, is further expansion of the Patriot Act necessary, and more importantly, is it justifiable to sacrifice even a few liberties (such as those that give us the right bear arms or be secure in our homes and persons) for the purported security and safety it would provide?

This is as important a debate as any and one that will have far reaching consequences for the future of the United States.

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Author: Mac Slavo
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Date: November 23rd, 2011
Website: www.SHTFplan.com

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146 Comments...

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  1. TX Hillbilly says:

    If anyone has any doubt about sacrificing libery for security, read the article “It Will Never Happen Here” in the December issue of the NRA’s magazine “America’s 1st Freedom” It is really scary what has happened in England with gun control in the name of security.

    • eeder says:

      yes TX… England was once, not that long ago relatively speaking a good place to live…. That has changed drastically in the last century…. simply put , britain is feminazi, zion central… it is an absurd society.

    • Carolie (UK) says:

      Hiya

      I can’t say much about the Patriot Act but I can tell you about the Uk. We had a couple of incidents where individuals went mad with guns, Hungerford was the first, knee-jerk reaction banned rifles from all but gun clubs, and even those rules changed. A few years later a man used a handgun at an infant school in Scotland, Dunblane,I think 16 children and a teacher were killed. Handguns were banned almost immediately, from private ownership and from clubs…no handguns allowed whatever. Police visited premises of those owning licences guns any discrepancies and the guns were seized and destroyed. My cousins and I had legally owned shotguns and in my case a 22 bolt action rifle registered at my grandmothers house in rural Devon, I no longer lived in Devon so mine was taken (I didn’t live in Devon when the licence was issued) one male cousin had his seized, we don’t know why, the other who hadn’t touched a shotgun since he was sixteen was allowed to keep his. All this made us safe, it could never happen again with all these controls we were told. What a crock of shit, I would be here for hours listing high profile cases where both high powered rifles, automatic and semi-automatic weapons have been used on the streets. Maybe you heard about the mass shootings in Cumbria last year? Or the girls shot with Uzis whilst waiting or a cab one night, or the 5 year old killed in the crossfire on her way to school, the list goes on and on. Mass killings from gun crime is not an everyday occurrence here, but drive by shootings, gang related shootings and innocents in the wrong place at the wrong time are very common….far more common than our government wants the world to believe. The bad guys already have the weapons, it’s the rest of us that cannot protect ourselves.

      This will amuse you…if I get attacked and fight back using a hairbrush and I blind my attacker it is self defence. If I was a bald person I would be done for carrying an offensive weapon because I had no hair therefore no reason to carry a hairbrush…this is not a joke, I am serious.

      If you want to know more about the stupidity of the lawmakers here give me a shout.

      Take care x

      • durango kidd says:

        Carolie: WE in America know all about the “stupidity” of lawmakers, but in truth, they know exactly what they are doing and what they are doing to all of US.

        That is what makes them culpable.

        In the case of Great Britain, your rights and thus your laws are derived from the Crown.

        In America OUR rights are derived from Nature’s God. That fact makes all the difference.

        OUR lawmakers are guilty of malfeasance in office at best, and TREASON is possible for some.

        Death to traitors.

        • Peregrin Took says:

          “Death to traitors.”

          Our elected officials need to hear this more. They just don’t *fear* us anymore. And why should they? We’re simply too dependent on them.

      • Kevin2 says:

        Carolie

        Are the wealthy disarmed as well? Guys like Sir Richard Braxton does not have armed security? Paul McCartney? If they have armed security how do they get around it if all handguns are banned? Can they own a handgun?

        Even in NAZI Germany or Soviet Russia “The Rules” did not apply to everyone. In NYC in the US the powerful / wealthy like Donald Trump have weapon carry permits. A taxi cab driver need not apply.

        • Carolie (UK) says:

          Hi Kevin

          I had a quick look at your question. British celebs do not apparently have armed guards and firearms rules apply o all. If you have a country home and shoot s are run on your land you can own a shotgun, if you are a farmer you can own a shotgun, for the rest of us…no. We have armed police units that guard royalty and other high profile public figures but the official line is that is all. Tony Martin was a farmer who shot at two people breaking into his home, he warned them to clear out or he would shoot. They didn’t he did. One died. He was prosecuted or murder. We are only in law allowed to use what would ordinarily be at hand to defend ourselves, so, if I got broken into tonight and I knock a bloke down the stairs by swinging a full can of paint at his head, (I am currently decorating) there will still be an investigation but it will likely uphold my plea of self defence. In the Tony Martin case the gun was at hand but it was regarded as excessive force. He served time but the public went totally mad and he was released early his firearms licences were revoked.

          Take care x

      • Kevin2 says:

        Carolie

        So if I understand your reply correctly even the “Rich” cannot buy armed security in the UK. WOW, that would go over like a “Lead Balloon” as we say in The States. Here even in places that had gun bans (since challenged and overturned by the US Supreme Court) they always had “exceptions”. The wealthy if permits we’re not available became reserve law enforcement and therefore legally armed. They also hire off duty police to guard VIPs that travel through restrictive States (NJ Does that). Cops seen a need and formed their own company for businessmen traveling to NJ.

        So your criminals have guns and your wealthy are disarmed for practical purposes too. Social conditioning I guess being a product of looking at yourself as a Subject as opposed to a Citizen. Never fly in the US even under the most restrictive of areas and conditions. The rich operate under a different set of rules here even if not written.

      • ninaorket says:

        is it true that in england you all have to pay a t.v. tax just for havin a t.v.??? and how much is it??? …thanx for answering when free.

    • Chandler says:

      Here in Australia when I was but a boy 35 citizens were murdered at Port Arthur, Tasmania. Despite the military prowess of the massacre it was pinned on a borderline retard with no formal weapons training whatsoever. The patsy was given an ultimatum. Plead guilty or you will be put in with the prison gen-pop, who will murder you in your sleep. Since he chose to plead guilty, the many witnesses who told of multiple gunmen, neither of which was the accused, were told their testimony was not required. As an emergency measure our government taxed the population an extra 500 million dollars to fund a mandatory buy-back of almost every privately owned pump action and semi-auto firearm in the country.
      The worst part is, despite all evidence of a professional massacre and subsequent coverup, the populace bleated their consent and went back to sleep.

      • Eagle eye says:

        From what I hear, sales of grease and plastic pipe went through the roof. And yes, something did seem “off” about the way the incident was progressed through the legal system.

    • NEWTON says:

      Quick rundown:
      Gingrich: no executive potential – a professor wannabe
      Romney: ambiguous fascist, not principled in slightest
      Perry: no self respect as a future President of Texas
      Cain: smarter than the guy in office, not integrated
      Bachmann: too crazy for Israel, ideologue, knows taxes
      Huntsman: better luck next time
      Santorum: the most constipated, querulous fascist ever

      Dr. Paul – closest thing to a true Mr. Republican like Robert Taft with a principled understanding of Liberty. In a league of his own, incomparably better than the clowns above. Needs style desperately. 2012 is his year!

      Happy Thanksgiving!

  2. Who is this guy? says:

    Who?
    Just kidding.
    The Jews own the media stations. As Paul wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve and the Jews own all the banks…. It’s why this guy gets little mention on TV. I used to look at skin head Nazis as anti Jewish and all their bile. Yet, you have to admit…we’re all slaves to these people. All the interest goes to the banks and also China. They are now building up their military. I’ll tell you….I bet the muslims will win…they will out breed us all. Jews, you must be worried. NWO boys…I think the muslims have an eye on you too.

    The only defense against all these groups is to well armed and join the NRA.

    Note to China…if you ever invaded….the largest army in the world are the American people who are very well armed.
    I’m sure I’ll get some shit from all these comments. Yet I’m tired of being a slave and we need to put America first. Cancel all your credit cards. Stop buying foreign stuff. Arm yourself and buy enough ammo for your grand kids. They will be the ones needing it. Read this..
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

    • eeder says:

      Who
      do not let the zionist feminazis ever scare you from speaking your mind… you are saying nothing unreasonable at all… let it all out… its good for you and its your right.

    • If China ever invaded America it would be after an EMP like strike – probably one a lot of people think is a “false flag” event. The 30 or 40 million people left will be no match for 100m man army with its equipment and air corp but hey…we can go down shooten. The Chicom’s will just want us to grow food like we were 310 million strong so they can feed some of their elite 1% ers.

      • durango kidd says:

        The Chinese Red Army is “only” 20 million strong. WE don’t have anything they want now that they have OUR manufacturing base and we transfer $300 billion in wealth to them every year.

        China could easily dominate Siberia and Mongolia which are both loaded with precious metals, oil and gas, timber, and LOTS of fresh water.

        They could go head to head with the Russians and win all of East Asia. With US all they would get is OUR Ad Sense income.

        OUR military would not be affected by an EMP attack on the USA. Beijing would be toast.

        People, give up this fantasy of a Chinese invasion; its not gonna happen. Its not logical, does not reflect circumstances and events, and it would be counter productive to the Chinese Communist Party Mantra:

        “Wealth is glorious!”

        • Kevin2 says:

          The concern the US / UK alliance has is China having virtual unlimited access to natural resources outside of US / UK control (Bankster).

          China’s advantage in number is limited by it’s logistic demand. Simply put if China can walk or drive there it would probably dominate. Shipping troops across an ocean in numbers reflective of her size is beyond her capacity and far too dangerous.

          China is being civilized and contained at the same time. Chinas need for raw materials and an inability to just take what it wants because of the US / UK alliance exercises control over China and control is what it is all about. Before China was open they were like the Amish. Attach some electrical power and you now NEED something we have.

        • kevin says:

          Dk, very good post! But remember, the chinese know they cannot win ridding horses over here, that is not the way you fight the giant. YOU KICK HIM IN THE NUTS! I do not fear a chinese invasion, look,I am not a military genius, but if I were to fight a giant I would send mini subs(with nukes) to the pacific base, port of houston, san diago,valdeze, las angeles, portland, houston, and a few on the east coast (not dc, they wouldn’t want to lift our morale) and at the same time, 3 or 4 emp’s just to make sure! That is what we have to fear! War is an all out fight to the death, and they WILL fight dirty! So yes “bejing would be toast”, BUT we wouldn’t be fresh white bread out of the oven either. WW3 is here NOW, the media, and gubment just aren’t calling it that.

        • durango kidd says:

          K2 and Kevin: WE do not have something that China needs. WE are something that China needs:

          CUSTOMERS!!!

          Without US buying their products, China collapses. The masses there turn on the CCP and the power, the wealth, and the lives of the CCP Members are toast!!!

          The only thing the Chinese people love more than Buicks is Revolution!!!

    • Wolfbay says:

      The majority of the Banksters are Christian. So does that mean it’s a Christian conspiracy?

    • cant belive you got any negative votes on this I gave you a thumbs up.could’nt agree more .facts are facts and opinion are opinions.There are hard long facts to squash there beliefs.They should do there homework and then come back and vote.

  3. bob says:

    This debate is ridiculous, if you believe in the founding documents you will reject this police state mentality and reject the newt,bachman and any other candidate who is for this un-patripotic act.

    Ron Paul is right and the rest are shills for the NWO.

    RON PAUL 2012

    • eeder says:

      If anyone other than Ron Paul wins the 2012 election… it spells grave consequences for America and actually earth…. i really hope he can do it… PAUL/NORQUIST 2012

      • durango kidd says:

        Vote for Ron Paul if he is the Retard candidate.

        If he runs as a third party candidate, he will just ensure an Obama victory.

        I would rather have the GB’s in power (and you all know I HATE the GB’s)than a NWO Socialist and Foreigner running the country for another four years.

        God help US.

        The solution is enough Patriots in Congress from third parties with the US Constitution as their basis for government.

      • old southern man says:

        I will vote for Ron Paul or I will not vote. But that said, we are going to suffer mightily no matter who is elected. One person, no matter how good his intentions will be able to turn a corrupt congress and judicial system around in one or even two terms. It will take Ron Paul and a 100 million or more American people standing up, marching on Washington and good people getting off their a$$ and running for office to replace these corrupt bastards.

        • I beleive also that not one man can do it.The people of america that care at all are to far and few to make a difference.To many are selfish and easy manipulated buy media and that is all channels,and the lowlife piece of shits that we support(the free loaders)want even more from the system,nanny state .and this goverment can take more from us to give them and get all there votes.So understand that my assement is that no matter how we vote it will only slow the process of destroying our constitution and that I will still vote and still sleep at night, no matter who gets elected ,and no matter how out numbered I am I WILL FIGHT TO MY LAST BREATH better dead than a slave.

    • THEY, those that are pulling the strings and who can manipulate the ballots, keep throwing out pretenders every month to see what THEY can come up with to shake the massively strong foundation of Dr. Paul.

      Let see, Perry two months ago.
      Cain last month.
      Gingrich this month.
      Hmm, Romney next month or Bachmann?
      Then finally the creme of THEIR crop, Zionist Satanic Psychopath Jon Huntsman.

  4. Jack says:

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,deserve niether liberty nor safety”
    -Benjamin Franklin

    Most here have heard this one before,Rings as true today as it did when he said it. Newt and the others don’t get that all.

  5. Frosty21 says:

    Ron Paul,I believe will be in this to win.He is smart to stay the course.People are finally looking his way.Some time’s you need small step’s to climb a mountain.I see great thing’s if he take office.

    • sanityjones says:

      Yes, because the other 465 “leaders” in this country will suddenly see the light, repent, and undo the last 90 years of unconstitutional legislation…………Dream on.

      • old southern man says:

        Calling your congressman or senator does no good. They still do what they are paid by the lobbyist to do. Until we make it treasonous (Death Penalty) to give money to congress or for accepting said monies by outside sources things will never change.

      • yental says:

        My point as well. Unless Ron Paul is elected with a majority of “like minds” in both the house and senate, it is the same joke. I guess Ron will showup with a pitchfork and run the rest of the AIPAC bought congress out of town.

        I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Revolution and the complete destruction of the current corrupt system is the only credible solution. Continuing to pretend that the illusion of choice to elect the “right asscheek vs. the left asscheek” to sit on the throne is insanity.

  6. eeder says:

    the answer is an emphatic NO! You should NEVER sacrifice Freedom and Liberty for safety. Safety is never possible in the long run and in fact you decrease your safety in the longrun when you give up basic and constitutional freedoms. If people really thought about it , I am sure they would understand this.

  7. I.................... says:

    Personally, I’ll going with liberty.

    Ron Paul 2012……………………………

  8. This is why Paul should not run as a Republican but as a Libertarian. Of course if he did that he makes it almost a certainty we get 4 more years of big check bama…..with printing press guitner. (sp)

    Paul can’t win. His values are considered extreme and while many who prep and study “SHTF” believe and follow him – he simply can not win. A vote for Paul is a wasted vote. Newt isn’t all that much better. He’s a flavor of the month…..notice that Romney hasn’t been the “flavor” yet…..main stream media is waiting to hand him that with the NH primary.

    I hate that NH and Iowa get to decide who our nominee’s are.

    • Arkaden says:

      I agree. As much as I want Paul to win, I don’t think the ballot of public opinion will let him as he’s grouped in with the Republicans. My other fear is that IF he does manage to pull off the miracle of the century, I’d bet my retirement that you have a repeat of JFK. Look what happened to him when he tried to abolish the Fed. His successor came right in and absolved his order. You’d see the same thing here again. Sad, angering, and scary but

      I’m afraid we’ve come too far down this path for the voting box to matter anymore. If you think elections aren’t tamper proof you’re kidding yourself.

      • Kevin2 says:

        Ron Paul is an older man well into his years. There is a lot of stress in his life. Stress and age are contributing factors in heart disease. Heart disease often causes a heart attack and in one third of the cases it’s accompanied with VFib. This is a sad but true fact.

        Strokes, slips and falls, plane crashes; accidents or disease can strike at any time.

        • old southern man says:

          they we will be at your door within 5 years to confiscate your guns. Martial law or something akin to it will be implemented. Our liberty and freedom will end and this grand experiment with it. Don’t give up so easily. I remind you that during the Revolutionary war, 33% fought or aided the cause, 33% were loyal to the Crown, and 33% didn’t give a shit one way or the other. Remember nearly 40% percent of people didn’t even vote in the last presidential election. Those were people who had given up voting for the lesser of two evils. Now they have a legitimate alternative and because of the current political, economic state of our country will finally vote. Not to mention the loss of liberty (TSA, Patriot ACT, and roving VIPR). I haven’t given up yet. I still wear my Ron Paul t-shirts, my RonPaul2012 sign is still in my yard, stickers and magnets on my car and I still talk to any body who will listen about liberty and Ron Paul.

      • old southern man says:

        Then we are doomed!

    • Mick says:

      I agree; if Paul runs as a 3rd party candidate, he’ll peel off more GOP votes than Dem votes, and we’ll end up with 4 more years of Obama.

      Paul needs to stay in the GOP race, AND he needs to be given more time to speak in these Dem-moderated debates. I am not a Paul supporter and I don’t believe he can win, but he needs to be given time to speak… if for no other reason than to force the other candidates to move more towards Constitutional views.

      ps: I moved to Iowa this year and am registered to vote. If somebody in my caucus meeting tries to put forward another McCain/Dole squishy RINO, there’s gonna be Hell to pay!!!

      My vote will be: “anybody but Mitt” in the Primary, and “anybody but Obama” in the General.

      Not that it’ll matter. Mathematically, we’re doomed anyway as there’s no way we can balance the budget and even begin to pay back our massive debt. I just want a little more time to prepare!

      • Just me says:

        4 more yrs of Obama may be better than 2 yrs of any of the other GOP candidates other than Ron Paul. I know that I, my family and friends will vote for Obama if Ron Paul is not on the ticket, changing the ships captian when the ships half way under water with one of the others will not stop it from sinking with their ideas, all they talk about is spending, not one has said anything about cutting emeditely.At least four of them will have us in a couple more countries fighting wars in 6 months.

    • Eaglescoutprepper says:

      Yeah, I don’t get that, Iowa, is this an electoral thing? It can’t be population density, unless the corn gets to vote. Can someone please explain the significance?

    • durango kidd says:

      Change will not occur in America by a third party presidential candidate, even if that candidate is elected President. It would only bring stalemate like WE have now.

      Third parties that pursue and promote a third party presidential candidate like the Independent Party, is wasting your vote and your money.

      Change can only come to America by the election of third party Congressional Candidates to office all across America,
      who have a platform of the US Constitution as their basis.

      With enough Congressional seats a third party like the Constitution Party or America First can redirect legislation back to OUR founding principles.

      I encourage all of you to investigate these two parties, work for them at the local level and elect Patriots to office.

      America First is my favorite. You can find a link to these parties here:

      http://shtfpatriots.blogspot.com

      Let your Barnhardt out!

      • Just me says:

        I don’t believe that a third party in America would be a stalemate, those lifers in Congress and the Senate are scared about losing their jobs lately and they are beginning to swing toward what the people want, If Ron Paul were to run 3rd party and win, they all know what he stands for and if he wanted something, got on TV and told the people which he would do and the people liked it, Poilticians who wanted to keep their seat would not vote against it.

        • durango kidd says:

          Just Me: That’s a valid point; or the globalists in each party would feel threatened and move together to block any Ron Paul initiatives in Congress.

          If you really want to turn this country around it has to be done at the ballot box for Congressional seats all across the nation.

          When Americans speak in that way, they will not only get the attention of incumbents from the Retards and Demturds, but they will go along to move along with the Tide.

          Once the independents and other Patriots have aligned with a third party with congressional seats, a man like Ron Paul could get his initiatives passed.

          Corruption is rampant at the state level too, and the globalists in both parties are doing things at the local level to reinforce the NWO agenda.

          Just recently in Arizona, DES moved the contract for food bank grants, which are taxpayer dollars, in Flagstaff Arizona to the St Mary’s Food Bank Alliance even though two other groups have been serving Northern Arizona more than adequately for 30 years.

          SMFB wasn’t even operating a food bank within 150 miles!

          Why? So that illegals can be fed. An army cannot move on an empty stomach; even an Army of one. This is how 30 million illegals have infiltrated every nook and cranny in the USA.

          The globalists want to make these people “new Americans”, let them vote in a referendum to dissolve the US Constitution and merge with Mexico into the North American Union.

          They are not Americans.

          They are agents of a foreign power undermining the American way of life at every level.

        • durango kidd says:

          80 million gun owners control the future of America. Engage!

  9. DRD5508 says:

    Patriot Act-means, we’re not enforcing our laws and individuals can’t be trusted to defend themselves.
    Increase of Border Agents-means we’re not enforcing our imigration laws.
    Increase of federal law enforcement-means we need to keep more eyes on the American populace.
    Increase of state and local law enforcement-means, we’re not holding people accountable for their crimes (fiat judges).
    Increase of DEA agents-means we aren’t doing our job and we aren’t serious about winning the war on drugs.
    Department of Education-means we don’t want your children educated, just pay us more we’re the experts.

    They all have two things in common: in need of funding by means of increase of taxs and limiting individual liberties.

    • Hey You says:

      You’re correct, DRD. We have a lot of people who get into positions of pseudo power and increase their misguided efforts to the detriments of society. Rather than looking to increase all these mistakes, we should be looking to eliminate these societal cancers and consider breaking-up the base, the too big to be humane USA.

  10. Everything has it’s cost. But few things are as rare or as valuable as human dignity and human freedom. It should never be considered an option to surrender “part or some” of our freedom for greater security. It is like being a little bit pregnant. You either are free from government instrusion into your daily life or your are not. You can’t be a little bit pregnant and you can’t be a little bit free.

    • Carolie (UK) says:

      I so much agree with you. Over here we are in invisible chains, no guns no gasses no mace no true freedom of speech, everything is considered offensive to some group or another.

      Today an advert on tv has been banned because 14 women said they found it demeaning. What about the millions of women like me who found it very funny?

      Posters of a beautiful woman in a wonder bra have been taken down incase they cause road accidents by distracting motorists.

      I got physically assaulted in the street three weeks ago, got the blokes car number and rang 999. The police asked me to go to them…yes really. They traced the number plate, the assault was admitted, it was decided it wasn’t important enough to prosecute so they got the man to write a letter of apology and the case was closed. Never even made him pay for my broken glasses.

      Same police district are currently prosecuting a man for calling an Asian chap a raghead

      You fight for your rights.

      X

    • seataka says:

      Indulge me while to share a screed from 1766, which provided my understanding of what our Founders meant by the word Liberty.. This from a dedication of a Liberty tree, in Rhode Island, by Silas Downer ‘the forgotten patriot’, the year 1766:

      “—We do therefore, in the name and behalf
      of all the true SONS of LIBERTY in America,
      Great Britain, Corsica, Ireland or wheresoever
      they are dispersed throughout the world,
      dedicate and solemnly devote this tree to be a
      TREE of LIBERTY.

      —-May all our councils and deliberations
      under its venerable branches be
      guided by wisdome, and directed to the support
      and maintenance of that liberty, which our
      forefathers sought out and found under trees and
      and in the wilderness.

      —May it long flourish, and may the SONS of LIBERTY often repair hither, to confirm
      and strengthen each other.

      –When they look towards the sacred ELM, may they be
      penetrated with a sense of duty to themselves,
      their country, and their posterity:

      –And may they,like the house of David,
      grow stronger and stronger,
      while their enemies, like the house of Saul,
      grow weaker and weaker. AMEN

  11. bob says:

    Jim your thinking like a slave… Paul can win! you sound like the typical TV watcher. Many of the colonist didn’t want to fight the king because they said “we can’t win”

    Ron Paul can win if all those who know he’s right will vote for him, the MSM is trying to tell us who to vote for.

  12. Mick says:

    The Patriot Act should be allowed to expire when its provisions come up for renewal again. I say this for one simple reason: nobody in Congress has read it. If wonder if even Newt, astute policy wonk that he is, has read the whole thing.

    If you want “tools” to fight terror, then fine — author a separate bill that focuses on just those things, and spell it out in plain English. In 1000 words or less, not 1000 pages.

  13. geo-lthic says:

    Gingrich is some strange part of the Republican machine, if he runs against Obama he’s gonna be a loser for soooo many reasons. Obama prays at night he gets the nomination.

  14. Carolie (UK) says:

    No gasses? I thought I typed tasers lol

  15. Just Matt says:

    “America is at that awkward stage; it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.” Quote from Claire Wolfe

    My only thought is…it may not be too early.

    • Hey You says:

      Yes, it is too late to work within the system. Secession appears to be the only valid answer. However, my guess is that the system will respond by creating another war – – like the majority of the candidates on the “debate” last night support.

      Typical comment regarding war: “only of all else fails” which essentially means ” I support war (if the other side doesn’t do what I want)”.

      • Peregrin Took says:

        Be careful what you wish for. The South was fairly unified, the people fairly independent, the state legislatures fairly unanimous for secession, they fought for their freedom from Northern aggression and control, and fought largely in their own back yards… yet they still *lost*.

        Now consider our current situation: 50% of the population is part of the Free Sh*t Army, we wash our medications down with soda and booze while wasting our lives away in front of the tube. The individual states themselves are just like little baby birds squawking for more federal money. Consider all your friends and acquaintances, and ask yourself, “How many of them really want freedom as we know it, and how many would oppose our quest for true freedom?” The fact of the matter is, they just don’t *want* it. True liberty is just too damn scary. If the South lost with so many things going in their favor, how can we hope to secede when we’ve so thoroughly lost the hearts and minds of average Americans? When we can’t even legally own 1/100th of the firepower that FedGov has?

        I hate to be all pessimistic, but from what I’m seeing, America is effed, pure and simple. That is, unless we can rouse the sheeple from their slumber, but they’re too medicated and stupid to realize what’s going on. Bread and flipping circuses… But seriously, can anyone give me any reason for hope? I’m being sincere in this question. Can America find it in herself to take back this country for liberty and limited constitutional government?

        • NO ,we can not,not when they (the ones that are incharge)wipe there ass with the US CONSTITUTION.It will have to get bloody.You have to stand up to the bully even if you get your ass kicked otherwise the bulley keeps bulling.

    • hbeachrealist says:

      Great quote! My fiancee had to ask me what I’m chuckling about.

      The problem is that when it will be time to shoot the bastards their Police State will be in full force, and we won’t have the opportunity to shoot the bastards.

      However, for us preppers, that will not be a problem.

      We will sit safely at home with our glocks unlocked.

  16. VietVet says:

    The only answer is to let it crash. Until it comes completely unglued there is no putting it back correctly.

    Let the bastards fall…

    • …is there an echo in here?

      Until the entire system comes unraveled, the criminal bastard thieves are going to delude themselves into thinking they’re actually controlling it all. At some point (maybe at this point, now) it will spiral out of control and go flat.

      My guess is the “crash” will occur in two years or less precipitated by an “event”. Once that happens, you’ll see the dollar become worthless and basic necessities will see a sharp rise in prices. Big ticket items like cars and houses will drop in prices in the same manner. We’ll have massive inflation and deflation at the same time. Biflation. Necessities will shoot up. Luxuries will crash. …and the American public will riot. …and loot. …and the government will flail.

      But, then again, thats one man’s opinion. Depending on what happens on the way there, the outcome could sway all different directions.

      One thing I do know: I need to eat. I need to keep warm. I need to be safe. Food, fuel, guns & ammo.

    • old southern man says:

      “Let no crisis go to waste” I have to respectfully disagree. I think they will use any and all means to their purpose.

  17. anonymous says:

    According to the website below, the Oklahoma bombing and Waco massacre are false flags.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591580/pg1

  18. The_Isle says:

    Gingrich and Paul are the only two candidates running for office in 2012 who possess the intelligence, experience and knowledge to be considered qualified to be the next POTUS IMHO. Unfortunately Gingrich is considered too conservative and Paul is considered too radical for either to have mass appeal to the mostly ignorant voting public. Paul will get my vote but there is no doubt either Paul or Gingrich will be a huge upgrade compared to Obummer. Whether either, if elected, could turn things around quick enough to avoid The Collapse, I doubt it. I think it’s too late to be stopped. It’s always amazed me that there are more competency requirements to obtain a motor vehicle operator’s license than there are to become a registered voter. It’s no wonder an imposter like Barry can get elected. We’re toast…

  19. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

    “The only true power a government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren’t enough, make more criminals. Make so many laws that it is impossible to follow every single one and then crack down hard on those in violation”. Quote from Atlas Shrugged; not word for word but with the same sentiment.

    My opinion is that it does not matter at this point who is elected this next Nov. Even Paul if he were elected could not reverse the course this country is currently on. Most people seem to forget that a Paul administration would have to work with the Congress it is elected with, not the Congress it wished it had. And the sentiment in this country is not with the Libertarians yet, at least not enough to make a difference. Things like the Patriot Act, the Federal Reserve, entitlement spending, etc., are a symptom of what is wrong with this country and not the problem per se. The true problem in this country is that there are more people who wish to be taken care of cradle to grave by Big Sis than people who wish to be left alone. Any proferred solution that ignores this fact is doomed to failure before it is ever implemented.

    • Doug says:

      The Patriot Act act and the Federal Reserve are not “symptoms” of anything, but deliberate and carefully planned tools of TPTB. Read up on the history of the fed and who were involved in its creation. You will recognize familiar names pulling the strings until this day.

      Same with the Patriot Act. Ever wonder how such a huge piece of legislation was created and voted on in such a short period of time after 9/11? TPTB were already waiting for the right time to trot it out and ram it through. Powers given to the government are rarely, if ever, voluntarily diminished and given back to the people.

      And if you support ANY of the current candidates, of any party, with the exception of Ron Paul, that is a clear sign your eyes are not yet fully opened to reality. The system is rigged, politicians are puppets that are rewarded hansomely by TPTB for their compliance in keeping the status quo, and any bone they throw to their respective base to appease them is just a smokescreen.

      I’d rather have a gridlocked Ron Paul presidency than the plundering of taxpayers’ dollars, erosion of liberties, and the charade that voting blue or red actually changes anything. Vote for a scumbag like Gingrich, a puppet like Obama, or Mr “Corporations are people too” Romney will inevitably lead the country off the cliff. All while you wave your pompoms wearing your favorite elephant/donkey outfit.

    • Montana Mike says:

      MOON…”Most people seem to forget that a Paul administration would have to work with the Congress it is elected with, not the Congress it wished it had…”. Even if he has right of center majorities in the House and Senate, there will be some gridlock due to Dr.Paul’s views on government. You have to believe he can lead toward positive change to improve America.

      DOUG… “The system is rigged, politicians are puppets that are rewarded hansomely by TPTB for their compliance in keeping the status quo…” I do agree with you whole heartedly. It is a reason to start to find, support and elect good sound individuals at the state level and move them up into Congress.

      The one area which continues to bother me are the intrenched bureaucrats at both the state and federal who make ‘regulations’,’fees’, and ‘fines’ in and on our everyday life to support their ‘power’. How are these unelected, unappointed individuals removed from office and replaced with sound and sane thinking leaders???

      If you believe as I do, we as individuals must vote for DR. Paul in your state primary to show the nation he has the determined support of ‘huge’ numbers (+50%) of voters. If we can do this in the individual state’s primaries, he will be seen for the leader he is. Dr. Paul as our President will start the process to return America to it’s greatness. Montana Mike

      • ninaorket says:

        ISRAELI ZIONIST JEWS are the powers that be tptb… every congress person who has visited israel ever should be investigated by a civilian corruption board of 11 regular civilians from their own states and charge with treason if found guilty of accepting zionist monies an jailed… it’s the only way to break the zionist israeli jew control over the prersidency, congress and our military…

        like max baucus of montana, who is a zionist jew puppet and a bribed goyim slave to the zionist jew global banker control program!

        look it up!

  20. Kevin2 says:

    If terrorism was the threat it’s claimed to be the US would be guarding our borders. You can’t foster policies that let in a million unknowns and be serious. It’s like going to a town hall meeting complaining about crime while being too cheap to put locks on your doors at home.

    • Kevin2 says:

      Because it’s obvious they are not really serious about terrorism and they are promoting policies that restrict the Bill of Rights in the 4th and 6th Amendments connecting the dots regarding the true intent is pretty obvious.

    • Doug says:

      Bingo. The terrorism threat is just a scaremongering tactic that has lined the pockets of the military-industrial complex.

      • Kevin2 says:

        It’s also is laying a legal groundwork that will be well established to control the people by the use of fear. What can one say, “It was ok to deprive people of rights as long as they we’re not ‘RealAmericans’ like me”? Now that it’s aimed at me it’s no longer good? By then unfortunately quite a few courts would have already ruled that it’s Constitutional. Everyone rejoices when the person with a the name of Mohamad gets locked up without a trial but when Michael receives the same fate we’re angry? That’s not “equal protection under the law”.

        Equality is very important.

  21. BraneFrees says:

    For a short while lately, in spite of his rather horrendous past, I had some small degree of hope for Newt.

    Then he opened his mouth about the Patriot Act.

    Bye Newt.

    • Mal Reynolds says:

      … and he opened his mouth about letting all the illegals in. Bye and BYE Newt.

      I’d say I’m a mix of conservative and libertarian beliefs. At first I didn’t think Paul had a chance, but after last night, I’ve changed my mind. Newt will fade the way Perry did and I don’t think Santorum or Bachmann have a chance. That leaves Mitt, Herman and Ron. After last night, I’m 100% sure to vote for Ron Paul.

      Shouldn’t you all be getting ready for Thanksgiving?

      Mal

    • durango kidd says:

      Bottom line, Newt is a Globalist. Globalists are Traitors posing as Americans.

  22. nameles says:

    You will get the government you deserve.
    you didn’t do anything about tsa ,it is easy stop flying, how about banks -keep them out of picture, cell phone stop using them-so nobody will listen and monitor you. IT IS Easy

    YOU PEOPLE GIVE UP CONTROL…OVER YOUR LIFES
    DID YOU HEAR LAST NIGHT PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE??? IF I WILL BE ELECTED MY FIRST VISIT WILL BE…. where?????

  23. Philippino Bob says:

    War on terror?
    Let me laugh.
    When was the last time that USA was terrorized on it’s own ground?
    The true terrorists are the “insiders”. The 1% of the 1%.

  24. Firehammer says:

    I was disappointed to hear Dr. Paul bring up Timothy McVeigh as his example. McVeigh has been paraded around as the face of domestic terror since the OKC bombing.
    But the national consciousness says that he, McNichols and Michael Fortier are the only culprits, when in fact, we have the Director of Safety on video telling the whole WORLD that there were 3 bombs INSIDE the building that day and they had to suspend rescue efforts until they could get the bombs out. One went off, two didn’t.
    McVeigh didn’t put those bombs in that building. Someone with infrastructure access had to do it. So far as I know, McVeigh didn’t have that.
    Couple all of that with Marvin Keating’s book written 2 years prior The Final Jihad, where a Tom McVey blows up the FBI building with a rented truck….
    So even Dr. Paul parades out the official narrative as if fact.
    We’re screwed. Every one of the rest were as pro-war as you can get.

  25. Do you notice the increase of mentions that corporations are people?
    Just like people, they pay taxes, can merge or split up, own property, assume debts, enter into contracts and have subsidiaries.
    What’s missing?
    Next year, America’s 6 Million corporations will be given the right to vote. AND MOST WILL VOTE REPUBLICAN. There goes the election.

    • MattS, I’ve been studying this. The key is the term “person”. In law they have changed a “person” to mean a “legal person”. Unless you specify “natural person”, thats you, your living breathing person. But, a legal person is nothing but a corporation, a trust. What many people don’t realize is that each of us that have a birth certificate has a trust that mimics their given name.

      Now here is the twist: in 1871 the act of 1871 created the United States of America, Inc. Congress gave that corporation license to govern the USA. At the time, the congress actually could not do that because the representatives from the south were all “installed” and not properly elected. So, unlawfully they created this fiction and then unlawfully gave it authority.

      The next point you need to understand is that since all corporations are fictions, they can only recognize other fictions. As such, in order for the corporation that poses as our government (FedCo, I call it) to recognize and manipulate the people it must create another fiction and then convince the people that the fiction that is created and manipulated is actually them.

      Simply put, you have never paid a traffic ticket or a tax bill. Your fiction has. However, YOU think your fiction, your corporation, your strawman, your trust, your legal person is YOU. It is not.

      Now, here comes the kicker! You *CAN* play both sides of the field. You can be the pitcher or the batter whenever you want. You just have to know the rules. Is not that the government is bad or good or liars or corrupt it is the simple fact that they know the rules and you do not. Learn the rules and be free.

  26. KY Mom says:

    I just read this on Drudge Report…

    Survival Shops Report Spike in Sales to People Preparing for ‘Collapse’ of Society…

    The article was on a CBS site.

    (stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/11/23/survival-shop-reports-jump-in-sales-to-people-preparing-for-possible-collapse/)

  27. Charlie says:

    Straight shooter, as always.

  28. Daisy says:

    First of all, his name is “Newt”. I cringe every time I hear that.

    Secondly, ANYONE who supports the unPatriot Act is not a friend of patriotism or freedom. There is nothing more telling than a candidates views on that specific issue.

  29. ninaorket says:

    newt left his dying wife at the hospital on her death bed… too go play hide the salami with his gurl-friend at a run-down roach motel… that says it all!

    ron paul, needs to watch the kennedy assassination tapes a couple of more times and withdraw from the race… they killed kennedy… tried to kill reagan twice, nearly succeeded… and they will try to kill ron paul if he threatens their banker global control program… the feelings of control you All seem to like to pretend you have over your lives and future is as fake as the paper in your wallets and pocketbooks!

    they will kill ron paul just as they killed kennedy and his brother… and not a single judge, fed law officer, local cop or even the us military is gonna do a damn thing to stop it! because they are all co-dependent on the SYSTEM!

  30. ninaorket says:

    newt left his dying wife at the hospital on her death bed… too go play hide the salami with his gurl-friend at a run-down roach motel… that says it all!

    ron paul, needs to watch the kennedy assassination tapes a couple of more times and withdraw from the race… they killed kennedy… tried to kill reagan twice, nearly succeeded… and they will try to kill ron paul if he threatens their banker global control program… the feelings of control you All seem to like to pretend you have over your lives and future is as fake as the paper in your wallets and pocketbooks!

    they will kill ron paul just as they killed kennedy and his brother… and not a single judge, fed law officer, local cop or even the us military is gonna do a damn thing to stop it! because they are all co-dependent on the SYSTEM!

    • hbeachrealist says:

      Yup, yup, yup. After they shot Reagan, he folded and didn’t go after the Red Reserve.

      IF Ron Paul is elected and gets shot by the New World Order, PREPARE FOR THE SECOND AMERICAN REVOLUTION!

    • Thanks for bringing this up, Nina..if Paul even gets the true picture about the Secret Services’ role in his assassination, and hires his own security, they can be bought..uh,’we know where your wife shops, and where your kids catch the bus’ threat works EVERY time.

      • ninaorket says:

        thanks @jj ;0) exactly… in the end everyone will play dumb and blind as a whole, simply because they don’t wanna loose their jobs, security and nest eggs!

        it happened on 9/11 it’ll happen again with ron paul’s assassination if he is elected president!

        my suggestion is have ron and rand together as a father son ticket… if they kill ron , then they gotta deal with rand’s avenging angels! Us We the people!

        And Banks Will bURN!

  31. Sam not sam says:

    Off subject, but check out this story.. there are more of “us” than we might think..

    http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/11/23/survival-shop-reports-jump-in-sales-to-people-preparing-for-possible-collapse/

  32. Sam not sam says:

    I personally think that virtually anyone whose name is not “Satan Himself” would be better than the destroyer of lives that currently inhabits our WH. I like most of Paul’s economic policies, but his world policies scare the bat snot out of me. If only we could get a cross between Paul and Newt… maybe throw in a little Maggie Thatcher… SIGH… we’re toast.

    • iowa says:

      If Paul’s world policies scare you, wait til God’s world policy is put in place for 7 years, in a year.

    • You know, something comes to mind. When the Clintons exited the Whore, er, uh, WHITEhouse, I said repeatedly, “The only time I would vote for a Clinton would maybe be if they were running against the devil, himself.”

      To this, I must amend, “…or Barack Obama.” I’m still waiting for the first Black Man to enter the white house. That Mulato Destroyer is nothing but a fake from top to bottom. If I were black (I’m not, I’m lilly white) I’d be insulted by him using the more tan half of his genetics to get into the Whore…, er, uh, Whitehouse. (Sorry, I just can’t help it!) All this racist stuff was fictitious BSing simply to get a liberal in office. In the end it doesn’t matter what color a man is, it is what is in his heart that matters.

      I believe that regardless of who we elect, we going down the drain. However, the transition into and out of the dark place we are headed could be made easier and faster if we have the right people in political positions. Ron Paul may not be the perfect man for the job, however, he’s always been consistent and when I hear him say something that I’m not to sure of or don’t agree with I always find that its me that is in error after a bit of study. Paul is authentic and he cares nothing for the fame and fortune. He is driven by the sole need to better the country that we live in and he will do this to the best of his ability.

      It really pisses me off when people start saying he can’t get elected. It is they who are preventing it. Believe and vote like you should. Don’t strategize. This is what the elites and the manipulators want you to think. I’ve never been a big supporter, one way or the other, of presidential candidates until Ron Paul came along.

      Someone said “He’ll be assasinated…”

      …and I say, that might be his plan. I see in his eyes a steel determination that, frankly, makes me want to take the bullet for him! If they kill him it will be lock and load. The outrage of his supporters will tear down in a week the house of cards the criminal bastard theives have built. No, they won’t assassinate him because they will know that we’ll be coming for them next.

      The election of Ron Paul will be incredibly tumultuous and multiple times it will look like he’s lost. The look will be a lie. The mainstream media isn’t telling you how far ahead he is. If you knew it would silence those who say “he can’t be elected” or “he’s too radical”. They *WANT*YOU*TO*FEEL*THAT*WAY!!! I’m shocked that anyone on here would fall for the tactic. Wise up! You’re being manipulated.

  33. Sam not sam says:

    Another note.. everyone should check out the story on Drudge of the Russian newscaster who was relating a story and when she mentioned BHO, she raised her left hand and shot the camera the finger… priceless… LMAO..

  34. RICH99 says:

    timothy mcveigh was not a terrorist , he was a patsy.how ironic that the BATF was told not to report to their offices at the building that mcveigh happened to have bombed and i believe they were running drills that day at that building. ron paul could have gotten his point across much better i think. he could have used the TSA as an example of how we are losing our liberties and not terrorists. look what people have to go through just to get on a plane. newt needs his ass kicked just for saying that.

  35. nunya says:

    A word we never hear from any candidate, or in reference to a candidate, is “Integrity”. There is a fine line between ambition and greed, 99.99% of politicians have crossed it. But then an honest person would have little chance of doing what’s right, or getting anything done, having to work with the “Greed” that’s already been elected……

  36. Prepping Preacher says:

    a vote for newt is a vote for more of the same crony politics of spend now, make the taxpayer pay now and later… no thanks, newt… you can just fade back into shadows from whence you came…

  37. Ahab says:

    Newt Gingrich just loves illegal immigrants, just as El Presidente Jorge W. Boosh and Senator John McCain do. “Mainstream” Republicans hold a position on Third World immigration that is identical to that of the Communist Party, and only toothless, trailer-dwelling hick-morons who salivate on cue at the sight of the Amerikan Circus Flag are taken in by their false, jingoistic pretense of “patriotism.”

    The Amerikan police state and its grossly misnamed Patriot Act, including its lack of habeas corpus, its lock downs and its anal probes, is for the native born Whites (and sometimes Muslims) only. Our southern border, on the other hand, must be kept wide open because any kind of controls instituted there would constitute “interference” with the human rights of migrants.

    Simply put, the Amerikan regime has been at war with Amerika’s historic European majority since “Brown vs. Board of Education” and the Jacob Javits-Emmanuel Cellar ADL-supported “Immigration Reform Act” of 1965 (“now OPEN the FLOODGATES,” the gloating, Yoda-lookalike Jake Javits is supposed to have proclaimed after the passage of the latter).

    The Amerikan system and the Plutocrat-Zionist cabal that runs it intend to arm the Third World hordes they have been bringing in for the last four decades to crush the European population of this country. The tipping point has already been reached in term of demographics.

    Ron Paul, on the other hand, once said “A nation without borders is no longer a nation.”

  38. Fed Up says:

    Seems like a lot of folks believe that how they vote will determine who will become the next POTUS. The popular vote (that would be yours and mine at the ballot box)is a poll, like a survey. The electoral college decides who will become POTUS, and there have been a few times in our history the electoral college has gone against the popular vote.

    Seriously, they whole system is rigged. Even if everyone voted for Ron Paul or even Mickey Mouse, what we see reported would have been pre-determined by an algorithm. The elites already have this in hand, the pomp and circumstance is just another circus.

    • Fed Up says:

      Whoever gave my last post a thumbs down, please at the very least GOOGLE “electoral college” and educate yourself about how the process works. You might be surprised, disgusted and unhappy, but at least your eyes will be open some more.

      Cheers.

  39. Schlomo says:

    I remember around 2002 a local prosecutor in Summit NJ used some aspect of the PATRIOT Act to ban homeless men from sleeping at the local train station.

    MORRISTOWN, N.J. — When officials in Summit invoked the USA Patriot Act to justify kicking homeless people out of its train station, the move was ridiculed in many quarters; even the U.S. Justice Department said the city had no business applying the anti-terrorism law to justify its treatment of the homeless.

    But now that the federal government has issued a warning in the aftermath of the London bombings that terrorists may pose as homeless people to watch buildings and mass transit stations while plotting future attacks, no one is laughing anymore.

    • Gods Creation says:

      I’m laughing at the poor fools who see everything the look at as a threat. Not so much at the victims of those fools and their misguided policies.

    • Kevin2 says:

      Laws are composed of words not intentions. While many believe “The Intent” of a specific law is to stop, inhibit, or create so and so the reality is in the wording. While many rejoiced when The Patriot Act locked up suspected terrorists of foreign extraction it was not codified to only be used against foreigners.

      As they say, “The devil is in the details”.

  40. matthew says:

    the circus is over folks go home, the popcorn is over priced an stale. we dont get a vote, thats handled for us. just sit there like a good little pawn do your work look forward. the eye is everywhere.This isnt the ship sinking its the liferaft. If you cant carry it you probably dont need it. this isnt going to be pretty, its going to hurt……….

  41. Farm cat says:

    When it comes to foreign policy Ron Paul is a nut case. He thinks Iran has the right to develop nukes. He said we should treat Iran with more respect.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDvaTqLlZlA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihcgkUq3ORQ

    • Kevin2 says:

      We can’t afford to control the world. The classic reply is “We can’t afford not to”. Just wait until a loaf of bread is $43.50 and oil is $323 / bbl because of the increased money we print to pay for our worldwide control. Lets see what that stability looks like at home and abroad.

      Maybe if we did not overthrow a Democratically elected government in Iran in the 1950s with the blessing and help of the UK for BP and put in a Dictator their entire direction might have been different. Maybe if we lived up to our creed of democracy and freedom they might have thought different of us. Then again if we did not repeat a similar strategy in Vietnam in 1954 and actually allowed a free election that might have turned out differently too.

      Pose on it.

    • Israel has nukes. Pakistan has nukes. India has nukes. China and Russia have nukes.

      All these countries have nukes. The fact is, FedCo doesn’t want Iran to have nukes because if they have nukes they’ll have to treat them with respect.

      COP: You don’t have a right to have a gun.

      Man: Why? You have a gun. Criminals have guns.

      COP: Yeah, but if you get a gun, I’ll arrest and jail you.

      Man: Why?

      COP: Because ITS THE LAW!

      Who makes those “laws”, the congress and senate of the USA? …and passed by the president? Some body of “men” that think they know better than Iran?

      The same people with the same mindset are trying to take our guns, our money and steal our property. They give all kinds of excuses for “why Iran shouldn’t have nuclear weapons”.

      IF WERE IRAN, I WOULD GET NUCLEAR AS FAST AS POSSIBLE! Its called self defense. Its not that they don’t want them to have nukes, its that they want to make sure the international banking cartel can rape and pillage the populace. They are a holdout nation. Ask Libya how that feels?

      Ask North Korea if they are treated any different now that they’ve claimed to have nukes?

      Basically, the USA doesn’t want Iran to have nukes because they can muzzle and cuff them a whole lot easier if they don’t. The USA needs to get out of the empire building bizness. We’re FUCKING terrible at it!

      Ron Paul’s foreign policy is radical, you are correct. But, it might actually work. What we have now doesn’t work. Oh, it worked for a while but now that we’ve pissed on all the fire hydrants on every street in the world people hate us. You can bully people for only so long. The USA is the worlds bully in many, many ways but we’re running out of the peoples money to do it. Sure, we’ve hoodwinked the world with our Federal Reserve theft ring but not, people are wising up.

      We need to dig a big, big hole and shove the federal reserve of into it and start issuing constitutional money and stop meddling in the affairs of foreign states.

      • durango kidd says:

        Too late. Israel will turn Iran into rubble before the end of March 2012.

        Buy gold. Sell your basis when the price spikes. Bury the rest next to your foundation and plumbing pipes.

        Net Ranger: Constitutional money is a very bad idea when the rest of the world is running on fiat.

        The wealth of America is being drained as it is by “free trade”. “Constitutional money” would drain OUR gold with it.

        Nice thought. Won’t work.

    • hbeachrealist says:

      Well, Farm cat, why do WE have the “right to develop nukes”?

      I guess Ahedmenjedah is too nutty to have nukes, but Barak Obama and George W. Bush are sane enough to have them?

      Those dudes are insane, sadistic, and, most importantly TRAITORS!!!!

      Go vote for Cain. 9-9-9!!!!!!!!!!!!

  42. oiuwer says:

    FURHTER expansion of the USA PATRIOT Act? How much fucking further can it possibly go? None of the sheeple realize just how far the domestic spy program goes. None of you. It is all pervasive and completely tramples the 4th amdendment into the dust. All notions of privacy in telecommunications have evaporated. America has the most complete domestic surveillance program IN THE WORLD.

    That’s right. A Chinaman is less likely to be spied upon by his government than an American. End of fucking story. We also have the highest prison population on Earth as a percentage of our population and execute (murder) the most citizens in any Western (and high on the list world iwde) nation.

    America is a brutal, high tech, surveillance based totalitarian society with a thin veil of faux Democracy covering it.

  43. Farm Cat Is The Nut Case. says:

    Farm Cat is the nut case, not Ron Paul. Israel has perhaps hundreds of nuclear bombs, so why can’t Iran have one? Israel can blackmail the entire planet with them, if they so desire. China and Russia have them too, so does India and Pakistan. So don’t call the most honorable American alive today, Ron Paul, a nut case.

  44. itsamatteroftime says:

    Texas hillbilly is right & on right on if your don’t believe his comment just ask the NRA they are the ones that are helping fight OBAMA & CONGRESS. Wake up & complain take a stand tell the government that you are tired of all the shit they put out for nothing. COMPLAIN PEOPLE OBAMA IS OUT FOR 2012 HELP GET HIM OUT OR WE WILL BE DOOOOMED FOREVER.

  45. Kevin Beck says:

    Mr. Gingrich doesn’t realize the reason these so-called potential terrorist acts are possible. To him, everything the Federales do to us is good if national security is the ultimate goal. But all these terror attacks (including Timothy McVeigh) originated from acts committed by our government and its agencies: In Waco, you had the BATF; in Arab nations, you had the Department of War (excuse me: The Department of Defense) and the Department of State picking its own winners and losers. If he actually thinks the actions of these two agencies did not inspire the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, then I think he is a naive fool.

    Now, we are fighting against a tactic and not a defined enemy. But give the apparatchiks at Homeland Security enough time, and I bet they will be able to “find” an enemy, probably living somewhere within the United States so they will have immediate jurisdiction over him.

    Addressing the question that inspired this portion of the debate, I must totally disagree with the premise presented by Mr. Meese. To blindly assert that there have been “42 terrorist actions stopped by the Patriot Act” seems a little high. Does anyone really think that these purported actions were stopped solely because that heinous act was in place? Or does he mean to imply that we wouldn’t have had the opportunity to prevent these actions if that act didn’t exist? I guess we’ll never know, because I don’t think he will address that issue. Either way, the statist Gingrich went right into the dark bowels of his philosophy and said that the Act was effective in protecting us. I am curious about two points regarding these acts of terror:

    1. How many of these acts were prevented because someone involved in the conspiracy went to the authorities (including special informants recruited just for the purpose of infiltration of these plots)?

    2. Since many of these plots were set-up by authorities themselves, why were they allowed to proceed as far as they did before law enforcement took them out?

    If the objective of the Act is to prevent these acts of terror from occurring, why would you wait until the last possible moment? What if something goes wrong on the capture side at the last possible moment, and the terror act occurs? If this is supposed to turn this country into a war zone, then it has succeeded. All we’re missing is daily attacks in our territory.

  46. Arnieus says:

    Why is there no War on Terror in oh, say, Holland, or Brazil or dozens of others. I wish Ron Paul would point out that we could learn the foreign policy of peaceful countries who don’t need a War on Terror. They have no reason to allow Expanded Power of a National Police Agency, that already has more power than any free society should allow. Why is only the US threatened by terrorism. Could it be our logo on the bombs. Read history. Power feeds and grows on itself like fire out of control. The American dream needs a Ron Paul bucket brigade right now.

  47. Too many individuals have died — or otherwise suffered — in the defense of our civil liberties since this nation was founded.

    No-one in the present has the right to dismiss their sacrifice.

    The Bill of Rights is the only protection “we the people” have against an abusive government.

    There is no room for compromise. You either support the Bill of Rights or you join the ranks of its enemies.

  48. John Salter says:

    When we USA fall apart (financially) first Putin (Russia) will overtake Alaska with 100 thousand troops, then China will overtake Taiwan triggering our Taiwan treaty resulting in sending aircraft carriers and battleships over there all of which will be at bottom of sea same day (China has almost 800 operating submarines) soon thereafter Mexico will activate their army now residing in USA to take over Florida, south part of Georgia-Alabama-Mississippi-Louisiana, all of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, then Muslims will take over the rest of the once proud country the liberals are dis-arming thru so-called gun control and first ones beheaded will be the liberals who are the real traitors. Then they will weed out those who will not bow down to worship their Allah (Satan). If you think this can not happen, think again! Can and will happen unless we elect someone who can correct all our problems (no current wannabes qualify). I believe I may be the only person in America who knows what to do and how to do it to save our Ship of State from sailing onto the Rocks of Certain Destruction. I am unable to be a candidate due to extreme requirements to place one’s name on the ballot. S. Carolina for example requires $35,000 deposit for anyone not already a well-known politician, other States have different deterrents. My God-given methods can not be revealed now because Obama could grab them and claim they are his ideas and be re-elected in a landslide. But if revealed in a public debate he could not get many to believe these ideas are really his. Like, “Why haven’t you used them already, Mr. President?” Perhaps my book revealing all will be published in time for the November Elections. Even our local Tea Party will not allow me to speak to their meeting (upwards of 50 people attend)! All I want is to see our country get back on track so it will last at least the next thousand years. Can’t do that if not elected President–no one ever listens to anyone not in a powerful political office. Well, anyhow I will not live long enough to see the horror and discomfort of us who believe politicians are just doing it for our own good, don’tcha know!

  49. Dr. Lenny says:

    I found it interesting that Gingrich stated that it is very important to reserve “your right to be innocent until proven guilty”. Didn’t he mean to say “our right”? Is he above the law as not to be included with the American public?