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    UPDATE: Cascading Grid Crash: Now 600 Million Without Power in India (Are We Vulnerable?)

    Mac Slavo
    July 30th, 2012
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (217)
    Read by 14,694 people

    Update: Tuesday July 31, 2012:

    Just one day after India’s power grid left 370 million residents of its northern provinces without electricity, the country is experiencing another massive crash of their fragile power grid with some 600 million people – about half its entire population – now going through widespread outages in what can only be described as a cascading power grid failure.

    Though no cause has yet been identified, the power ministry is frantically working to restore electricity as essential services collapse and transportation systems come to a grinding halt. Hundreds of thousands have been trapped in mid transport on trains, while millions sit in traffic jams across afflicted areas.

    Vehicles clogged streets in New Delhi after a power outage disrupted traffic lights and the city’s rail services.

    About 600 million people lost power in India on Tuesday when the country’s northern and eastern electricity grids failed, crippling the country for a second consecutive day.

    The outage stopped hundreds of trains in their tracks, darkened traffic lights, shuttered the Delhi Metro and left nearly everyone — the police, water utilities, private businesses and citizens — without electricity. About half of India’s population of 1.2 billion people was without power. India’s unofficial power grid, a huge number of backup diesel generators and other private power sources, kept hospitals electrified and major airports running.

    Manoranjan Kumar, an economic adviser with the Ministry of Power, said in a telephone interview that the grids had failed and that the ministry was working to figure out the source of the problem.

    Source: New York Times

    Originally Published Monday, July 30, 2012:

    As power grids in emerging and developing nations take on more demand than ever before, it was only a matter of time before the strain became too much to bear. This morning the weakness in global grid systems became apparent when some 370 million residents in northern India were left without power:

    Northern India’s power grid crashed Monday, halting trains, forcing hospitals and airports onto backup power and providing a dark reminder of the nation’s inability to feed a growing hunger for energy as it strives to become an economic power.

    Some small businesses were forced to shut for the day. Buildings were without water because the pumps weren’t working, and the vaunted New Delhi Metro, with 1.8 million daily riders, was paralyzed during the busy morning commute.

    Power Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde deflected criticism, pointing out that the United States and Brazil also had huge power failures in recent years.

    “I ask you to look at the power situation in other countries as well,” he said.

    Source: AP

    A large portion of India’s population regularly operates without electricity – either because they are too poor to have lines installed, or due to regular power outages. The power in this particular instance was restored to the majority of areas within 12 hours, but demonstrates that the Indian grid, as well as those around the rest of the world, could stop pumping electricity at any time.

    Consider how India’s populace would have reacted had the grid gone down for several days, or weeks, without repair.

    India’s grid crash is reportedly a result of excessive energy demand, and thus service was much easier to restore than, say, if there had been a natural disaster or attack focused on the utility infrastructure (from someone like neighboring Pakistan – who, incidentally, probably just got a great idea).

    In any case, what we can learn from this is that even in a country of one billion people, there are critical infrastructure issues that have been left unaddressed.

    The power grid in the United States, while more advanced and apparently better maintained, is also under excessive strain as has been witnessed in recent years with rolling brownouts, blackouts, and unforeseen crashes resulting from key component failure.

    One industry insider who has worked in the utility industry for nearly two decades advised this author recently that it wouldn’t take much to bring down the system even in the United States, potentially affecting tens of millions of customers. Though it’s the 21st century, many grid components in operation are, in some cases, as much as 40 years old, thus replacement parts are almost impossible to find. Other components, like massive transformers  may take weeks or months to replace. In the event of a scenario where multiple components are targeted simultaneously, by either a man-made EMP or natural event, it is not too far of a stretch to suggest that the afflicted regions would be engulfed in pandemonium.

    This potential for widespread failure is so plausible that former Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, who has spoken on the vulnerabilities of the US power grid, has advised that Those Who Can, Should Move Their Families Out Of the City:

    After Hurricane Ike passed through the Houston area 2008 some 90% of the metropolitan was without power. While hospitals, police and critical infrastructure was restored within a few days, residents in outlying suburban areas experienced the outage for over three weeks. We witnessed the rapid loss of patience, increased anxiety and frustration, and the subsequent breakdown of interpersonal interaction at high-demand venues such as gas stations, where long lines, screaming matches and even fist fights became a common occurrence.

    The bottom line: As demonstrated in India today, Quebec in 1989 (caused by a geo-magnetic storm originating from the sun), Ike in 2008, Hurricane Irene on the East coast in 2012 and the plethora of incidents that have taken place over the last couple of decades, the North American power grid, just as India’s, is susceptible to far-from-equilibrium situations, and sometimes it takes extended periods of time to get power up and running.

    With just three major grids running the United States, our dependence on massive flows of electricity to power our home air conditioners, food refrigeration, communications, water and gas pump systems, and daily business operations could come to a screeching halt should the grid ever be struck by a natural disaster like a solar coronal mass ejection or a large-scale earthquake in California or on the Madrid fault. Likewise, as we’ve noted previously, rogue organizations looking to wreak havoc have already demonstrated the staggering security holes in our power, water and oil grid infrastructure, with leading cyber security firms noting that it is just a matter of time before disaster strikes.

    While a short-term, isolated metropolitan outage can be dealt with by sourcing labor and supplies from unaffected areas of the country, considering that the US operates on three key power grid systems, a region-wide outage affecting just one of these nodes could lead to a cascading breakdown in the electrical power system that envelops the entire country.

    The most dangerous possibility emerges when we look at threats posed by the sun or a rogue terror cell or nation that could deploy an Electro-Magnetic Pulse weapon (EMP / Super EMP) over American skies. It’s been surmised that either one of these possibilities could cause damage so staggering that the grid would be down for months, leaving millions without just-in-time food and gas delivery systems, medical care, local emergency response, or even clean water. According to one estimate, some 90% of Americans would die in such a scenario if the power wasn’t restored within one year.

    Thus, it is clear that our power grids are a critical lifeline to keeping life as we know it in the world today operational. And, as we have seen historically and India this morning, power grids can and do crash – even in countries with hundreds of millions of residents.

    Though a nationwide long-term power grid failure in the United States is an unlikely low-probability event, were it to occur it would literally change the face of the world as we know it.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 14,694 people
    Date: July 30th, 2012
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    217 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. disector284 says:

      Hey Kevin! Thats right…….

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 14

      • kevin says:

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 17

        • Sheepdog says:

          A most excellent but of humor, albeit off topic. You people who thumbed him down have no sense of humor, or maybe you have an overblown sense of self righteous honor. Maybe the nice old lady could also encourage you with some similar rhyme. Love all around :)

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

          • disector284 says:

            Thanks Sheepdog/Kevin. At first I thought only Kevin was going to get it. I see we have 4-6 thumbs up! Just a bit of fun for the day of a prepper.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Arizona Fred says:

            Protect yourself and your family by producing your own power..
            I just purchased this unit for my family and its working beautifully.I also caged it and using several ground rods, COMPLETELY isolated it from ANY emp.
            Some here have laughed at me, but at least I have something for my family WHEN the lights go out.

            http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/ele/3144693928.html

            This runs a small fridge,a few lights, and a water pump on my guest house, making it COMPLETELY off the grid.

            Take a look I love this little unit, and best of all…ITS SILENT. No zombies following the sound of generators here…

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • disector284 says:

          Excellent! LOL

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Be informed says:

        The difference between the U.S. and India is just how far down does a country fall when they lose their grid and power. Third world countries are already use to going without and do not have the dependency the more advanced countries like the the U.S. has. It is a lot easier to be thrown back into the 19th. centrury when most of your country is still stuck in the mid part of the 20th. century than to be thrown back when you are in the 21st. century.

        Another aspect of just how vulnerable the U.S. is has to do with 99% of the people are just not prepared and fail to even try to be. I would think that less than 1% of the people have any type of Faraday cages for their important electronics, and probably even less have some sort of electric generator or even a solar back-up to even charge batteries with. Most people are going to have no access to the outside world after an EMP other than dangerous gossip of what is actually happening. Even after a nuclear war there should be someone on shortwave somewhere with information that can save lives.

        What is so scary also is the mere ignorance of the general public to any survival knowledge, the know how. These survival sites such as this one are literal gold mines of valuable information that people can most certainly use. Yet where 3500 people have visited this site as I am commenting right now, IT SHOULD 350,000 OR MORE that should becoming more intuned with what is happening and what to do, WHEN something happened. This is a true sad state of affairs that such a small number, 1% want and seek out what to do WHEN an event occurs. At least there are those 1% and those 3500 people that are trying to read up on what we all need to know.

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        • India has been yoked and yanked by the nose into so-called modernity. It just does not fit here. None of it. Neither mechanical systems nor electric.

          There are three great enemies of western technology. Heat, Dust and Moisture. India has an abundance of all three.

          No company (NONE) has taken the pains to really Indianize anything. Localize, tropicalize… nothing.

          Just shove dated western designs down India’s throat, dazzle the “leaders” with trips and dollars, encourage the sycophant, crush the independent mind locally….

          How can/could it have worked in the long run?

          But the holy grail has been reached with mobile phones. The control grid is in and perhaps that is all they really cared about. Imagine in another outage, some phone company/ies left valiantly standing to connect the country.

          On diesel back-up of course, but who is asking. Instant god-hood.

          Two in a row is a bad, bad sign for India.

          Vivek

          http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/whither-india/

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. Matthew says:

      No media about it, eh? Not that I’ve really seen.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    3. hammerhead says:

      90% of americans in one year? sounds alittle steep but i am no expert . it certainly would be a rough time , my biggest fear is not the power being off , it is the desparation of others that scares me most.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 50 Thumb down 0

      • Tina says:

        Lived through the hurricane season in central FL a few years ago when they took a direct hit by several hurricanes. We were wothout power for nearly 5 weeks. Things were hard for us and we were prepared….

        It definately opened our eyes and made us aware of what preps we were missing. The sad news about all of this is that for many ALL OF THIS WAS SOON FORGOTTEN and many people we know have nothing more than a few sheets of plywood for their preps.

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        • PO'd Patriot says:

          Best education you could have gotten, anywhere.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

        • glacialhills says:

          What were the preps you were missing? probably most of us are lacking in some areas and would not have your experience to figure it out before we live it.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        • Hocus says:

          On the Caribbean island of St. Thomas, West end, went 6 months without power after Hurricane Hugo in 1989. St. Croix lost ~80% of their utility poles, St. Thomas ~40%. Had to bring in riggers from the Carolinas to reset poles and rebuild the HV spans, most of which returned to service in ~2 months, but many transformers and drop wires were damaged so homes had to be disconnected by default and reconnected by a second crew that lagged months behind the first. Got phone after 8 months. I was in downstairs apartment next to the cistern so I had gravity fed water with a siphon hose (landlord upstairs had to dip buckets.

          On the positive side from my point of view, this resulted in the death of cable television (for at least 3 years) and a WHOLE GENERATION of youngsters met their parents for the first time. Many areas of the island returned to a early-to-bed lifestyle and gathered for communal cooking and activities in early evening during the reconstruction period. Local radio once again supplanted television as the major source of news. While the hardships were significant, a ‘temporary’ off-grid experience can knit a community together and help children become more self-reliant.

          Ice, mosquito nets, citronella candles and clean first-day laundry were the things one cherished the most.

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      • anymice says:

        @hammerhead

        Yeah, 90% does seem a little high for 1 nation (one could assume assistance from other countries). Now, a WORLDWIDE power outage of one year – that’s a different story…

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

        • Walt Kowalski says:

          @anymice….

          Assistance from other countries? Are you kidding?

          No…I think a 90% mortality figure might be pretty darn close. The possible scenarios of what would happen with the grid down for an extended time are just endless. Civil unrest…starvation…disease…people with dependencies on medication dying… the list goes on and on. And one crisis feeds into another.

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          • greyfox says:

            90% would probably be accurate given the amount of people that are dependent on their medication. People on kidney dialisis, diabetics, bloodpressure and various heart meds, senior citizens in rest homes or assisted living, not to mention the sizeable population that require psychological meds for their various disorders that without will, well go psycho. Add all that with the people killed with the looting and gang attacks and I say we could reach 90% pretty quick especially if the gov helps out by trying to save us from ourselves!

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          • John W. says:

            Just consider the people who have chronic health problems requiring constant medication to control. What percentage of the population are they? Then others in nursing homes or assisted living. We are probsbly at fifteen percent just with those two groups. They will hardly last a month. Hunger, cold and disease will gradually wear down the rest. Those that die early may be considered the lucky ones. I would bet that most Indian tribes with large reservations where the traditional ways of living are still kept alive will do very well, might be a few cases of the DTs though as the booze runs out.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Obarry says:

          Other countries, including our “allies” would make a pack of hyenias look tame.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

      • TnAndy says:

        Hammerhead,

        Doesn’t take an expert….just think a minute.

        Where does 90+% of this country get the food, water, fuel, medical care to keep them alive ? From some source either directly or indirectly related to electrical power.

        Take that away, and within a few weeks to couple months, they are dead.

        90+% of the folks in this country are completely dependent on OTHER FOLKS and complex systems that allow them to live the life they live. Break ANY of those systems, especially one as critical as electric power, and it’s literally “lights out” for most of the population.

        You store a years worth of food ?

        Know anybody that you even suspect does ? ( and a year is a bare minimum, IMHO…that assumes you could successfully get a planting season in the following year. )

        Know anybody that has a SAFE ( not an open creek or a pond ) water source that doesn’t depend on electric pumping ? ( bet you don’t know TOO many of ‘em )

        Know folks that are well armed, with plenty of ammo and know how to shoot ? Because couple weeks into a grid-down situation, the whole country will be a free-fire zone with have-nots trying their best to take from the haves.

        Know anybody in a nursing home, or with a life ending medical condition (such as diabetes w/o insulin) ? Those folks are right in there with the first to go.

        Fuel/heat: Think of all the folks in northern climates. When the power stops, so will about every source of fuel, except maybe wood. What are they gonna do ? Hop in their car and drive to Florida ? Not without electric power to pump ( and re-supply ) gasoline.

        What happens to all the nuke plants around the country when they have to shut down ? Not the plant itself, but the spent fuel pools…..when they can’t pump cooling water anymore because their diesel gensets ran out of fuel, we’ll have a few dozen Fukishima’s around to deal with.

        Probably a dozen other things I haven’t listed, but you get the idea. And I’m NOT an expert.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 34 Thumb down 1

        • JustMe says:

          It would be a very opportune time for TPTB to release a few pandemic viruses, stop all food supplies, cut thier armed criminal elements loose, arm thier drones, and declare martial law…

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

          • TnAndy says:

            Justme:

            Yeah, some of that will no doubt happen, but the end result won’t require a super bug to achieve…nature will simply take it’s course as the water and food run out.

            I’d guess close to a 90% reduction in just a few months in a total grid down situation.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        • hammerhead says:

          tnandy – i have tried to reply 3 times but my posts keep getting censored.
          i am posting too fast, twice in 6 hours WTF?

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        • John W. says:

          Time to marry yourself a mormon or be one of Ted Turners grandkids. The Amish will do well if they are not wiped out by those who want their food.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Zoltanne says:

        Hammerhead, read the book “One Second After” by Wm Forstchen and you will learn how grid-down and EMP destruction could affect America. It’s a fast-paced fiction account that’s based on the harsh reality of what may come to be. I can’t recommend this book highly enough.

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      • Rabid Cat says:

        True dat, the unpredictability of human behavior under dire circumstance.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    4. eppe says:

      Get youself ready for the same…

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

      • Tina says:

        Just think of how everyone will react when these people can’t play their video games.

        Idle hands are the devil’s workshop

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 31 Thumb down 2

        • KY Mom says:

          Our power grid is aging and has not been “hardened” to protect it from an EMP. An EMP could come from the sun. The 11-year solar cycle will hit its maximum in 2012. Solar flares have caused blackouts in the past. Or, it could come in the form of an attack from one of America’s enemies.

          Unfortunately, after the House recently voted to protect the power grid, they did nothing.

          I have read that it would take as little as 90 seconds for an EMP from a geomagnetic storm to bring down the 300+ high voltage transformers that feed our power grid.

          What a sobering thought … less than 90 seconds for our lives to be changed forever.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 0

        • SWIFT says:

          @Tina,,, Wow. I haven’t heard that expression since my grandmother passed. She had an expression for everything and every once in a while, one comes back in remembrance. Thanks!

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

    5. 9mm says:

      Could NEVER happen here….

      * rolls eyes *

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0

    6. Odd Questioner says:

      You see, folks? It ain’t just for TEOTWAWKI stuff.

      Out where I live, a power outage is about as likely as the dog accidentally crapping on the back deck instead of in the grass (in other words, yeah, it happens at least once a year). The outages last from between a couple of hours upwards to 10 days. Fortunately, they hit in Winter, where refrigeration isn’t too tough to accomplish sans power.

      OTOH, if you ain’t prepared for it (wood stove, lots of blankets, oil lamps, etc), it’ll suck. Either you rough it and hope you don’t freeze/fry to death, or you rely on government to help you as you huddle together with a bunch of folks in a local shelter… either option is not attractive at all, is it?

      Just a bit of food for thought.

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      • hammerhead says:

        odd it sounds like you have an “in” with your power company . outages at my place are as common as ground moles. they usually dont last more than a day but it is a huge pain! around here if you dont have a generator , then you aint around here. haha

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          We have a small county/rural cooperative for our juice (and are surrounded by the Oregon behemoth PGE (Pacific General Electric).

          They’re pretty good, actually. Last time the power went out (back in late Feb. if memory serves – during a windstorm), the lady on the other end of my cell phone was extremely polite. She was also able to tell me exactly which pole got knocked over by a fallen tree, and how long it would take for the crews to get it fixed. Power was back on 5 minutes before her estimated time rolled around.

          It costs a little bit more than PGE would charge, but damn… service that sharp is IMHO worth the couple extra bucks.

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          • justincase says:

            I also have a co op in my rural community and the power is never out too long. It was brought out by a hurricane last year wnad was on in about 5 hours after stormsetted. I worked at the electric company and it is amazing how efficient they really are. All the stations ans sub stations are hooked up tp a computer along with all of the lines et. When power goes off at any given area there is not even a reason to call because the INSTANT it goes off on any area an alarm actually goes off and the computer show the exact location/locations. It is pretty amazing. On a darker side we have few I mean a few transformers here in an event of an emergency grid down event it takes months to produce ONE and they are all now made overseas. we would really be in a fine mess. My hubby is an elctrician and he does industrial jobs Big ones water plants etc. The water situation would not be good. It would not flow to the faucet too long. I opted for “city water because the water here smells sooo bad and the table is so high, wish I had a well now! oh well like all things hine site is 20/20 and we will try to hand drill one soon. I did get a pool for back upi water though. hey it is almost 15000 gallons so it would get me through awhile.I try to have plan a b and c. all a work in progress and only been at for real for a year now. Not doin to shabby but when I see this I get a lil nervouse as I have soooo much more to do and time is goin fast.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    7. Jack says:

      Power outage in India = all of our call centers and tech support calls will go unanswered…

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      • Denver Slave says:

        A welcome thought, also the unsolicited calls to Mr. (mispronounced surname)…

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        LOL! Glad I can fix my own gear… :)

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      • John W. says:

        Actually the call centers are all over. last time I talked to one in Jamaica. Say what you will most of the Indians speak better English and are sharper than most Americans. Try and imagine a call center in the hood and you get Latasha. Yeah that will work.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    8. Evening all

      We have become so used to the use of electricity that doing without it will be a death sentence for many. Even those living an off grid lifestyle rely on electricity to an extent, it allows everything from tool production to antibiotic production. We know we can live without the grid, our forebears did so for millennia but many have forgotten the old ways and it is that knowledge that will be key to surviving a prolonged or even permanent grid down situation.

      Be it the oil running out or a solar flare. We know that one day the electricity will stop flowing, and life as we know it stops at that point also. No amount of stored food and water can last forever, without knowing how to care for ourselves, grow food effectively,source water and a myriad of other things we will not survive in the long term.

      We need to be storing knowledge as well as tangible items, and just like we have spares for all of our kit, we need to know different methods of growing food, digging a well or whatever, so if one system doesn’t work for us for whatever reason, we have another method to fall back on. Trying to find that information after the event will be nigh on impossible, it’s another in a long line of things that we need to be doing now.

      Take care

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      • EAGLEDOVE says:

        Good advice Burt and good afternoon! :)

        India will fair much better than us , because they are possibly one generation into the technology age and advancements, where we are possibly three generations into it and lost a lot of the old ways of life.

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        • Eagledove

          I agree entirely, the further we are from the old ways, the harder it is to get back on track. I will be honest, I didnt even know when peas should be planted until I read the back of the seed packet.

          I had no idea about so many things, and I have a massive way to go before I will be honestly able to say I am sufficiently versed to be able to deal with our needs on an ongoing basis, but any knowledge is better than no knowledge and by gathering the information now I can carry on learning even after whatever event befalls us.

          Take care

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          • PO'd Patriot says:

            Burt, only need to ask if you get perplexed. Alot here willing to help.

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          • EAGLEDOVE says:

            Burt;

            I haven’t tackled the gardening thing yet.., in which could be my demise.

            I am proud of you.

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          • EAGLEDOVE says:

            Burt., I admire you putting out a garden, because.., you have stepped up to the plate and started swinging. :) Myself., I am still sitting on the bench. :(

            Good night Burt. :)

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          • DPS says:

            Burt,

            Sorry to hear about your garden loss, If I could I would send you some veggies. Mine garden project has gone crazy after installing a drip line. My newest project will be rain harvesting to water just the garden along with a greenhouse to harvest during the bad winters we get here. Fot those new to gardening when you get your seeds make sure and get some hybrids also, heirlooms are great for saving those seeds but can be very picky to grow. I have also started collecting some 12 volt blubs for the grid going down. Mix some solar with a few wind generaters and there you go. But Burt i feel your pain and trust me I cuss like a drunken sailer when I work around the house and garden.

            DPS

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        • SWIFT says:

          If nothing else, the Indians will steal their way through any hardship. I’ve known a lot of them and can honestly say that two had honor.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5

          • Eagledove

            It was a garden until the rain came At the moment the swamp is drying out, it used to be a veggie patch but five weeks of rain put paid to that. We had four and a half days of sun last week and now it is cool and wet again, though nowhere near as bad as it was. Most of the crops are flattened or drown in the fields and no body has any domestically grown produce left.

            As for your pride in me…well thank you but I hate to admit it is not deserved, it is bloody hard work that leaves my already crap Joints feeling like I have been run over and provokes frequent outbursts of foul language when things go wrong.

            Things that never bothered me before now drive me insane. Butterfly’s are now…ba****ds that lay eggs on the cabbages, slugs are just plain ba***ds and anything else that thwarts my efforts are fu****g ba****ds.

            Thus far, gardening has not brought out the best in me.

            Take care

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          • Eagledove

            It is well past midnight here so it most definitely is time to say good night, or should that be good morning?

            Whatever, am too tired to care lol

            Night folks, take care

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    9. Countryboy says:

      If most of america knew how worn out and overloaded our infrastructure actually is they would be screaming until it was updated. But then again most people don’t want to see the world as it really is, they only wish see what they can through their rose colored glasses.

      Pray for peace, Train for war.

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      • Patriot

        Thanks for that…I do, often lol. The people here at shtfplan as well as the articles Mac puts up have given me so much practical advice it’s unbelievable. I have no doubt that will continue to be the case, hopefully for a long time to come.

        In the hope of giving something back, if there is anything I can do for anyone else all they have to do is say. It would give me great pleasure to be able to put something back in to the information pot that I dip into on an almost daily basis.

        Take care

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        • Canada Canuk says:

          @Burt the Brit…..A few weeks back, you mentioned there were certain things you would want to purchase (very quickly)when the SHTF…..I wondered at that time what you were thinking of….not sure if you would want to share that info or not?

          I might just run out and buy some too!! Thanx in advance…

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          • Canadian Canuk

            I’ll share anything but my address, we hardly will be aiming for the same stores will we?

            Firstly look for any gaps you have in you preps and make put those items at the top, for example, I need more anti-bacterial mouthwash, and OTC medicines, and baby wipes and food and water, I need more of everything, most of us do.

            My focus has changed in light of most UK crops being ruined. Usually we call the US and say give us a hand we have a problem, as the US has done with us in the past as we usually have a massive amount stored. This year that cannot happen, drought in the US floods in the UK and crop issues across the globe, stored supplies are low, very low and food prices are set to rise, in my opinion, way above the predictions of 3-5%.

            If only as a hedge against rising prices I have decided to step it up now instead of waiting. My money will buy me more now than it will if I wait.

            I will still do the last minute shop, bottled water and canned/dried foods will be what I am aiming for. Long life milk and shelf store juices that need no refrigeration will extend the time the water lasts for.

            No matter what we do Canadian, it will never be enough. Producing our own food if it really hits the fan is the only real way forward. All we can do it make it as good as possible for along as possible but it stands to reason that when you can no longer go to the shops to top up your supplies they will eventually run out.

            Now is the time to be collecting gardening books, heirloom seeds and manual tools. Container gardening is better than no gardening and anything you do is better than doing nothing.

            Take care

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        • Hawk says:

          Hey Burt,
          As to the slug problem you noted above try putting out a half glass of beer. Little suckers are supposed to drown there sorrows and themselves in it. Friend of mine uses it for his slug problems. Would suggest on a non-rainy night if you can get one.

          Lost half my potatoes to the heat. couple weeks and I start again.

          good luck
          Hawk

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          • Hawk

            My great grandparents, from the south of the country used cider with good results. I am saving egg shells right now, they apparently don’t like the sharp edges and won’t cross it.

            Good like with the potatoes. It’s too late on to start again here with most things, may get a few radishes and lettuce but that will be about it.

            Take care

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          • Zoltanne says:

            Burt the Brit, Not sure what your Fall/Winter climate is but here in Virginia in Zone 6/7, we can grow a 2nd crop of potatoes that we dig up in November. Got to set them out pretty soon in this area. I don’t know anyone doing this around here but us — yet it works! The trick is to grow the “early” potatoes that grow faster. For a fall crop, we do really well with Fingerling and boiling potato varieties and stay away from the large baking potato varieties.

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          • KY Mom says:

            Here is another slug prevention method. If you have a fireplace, save some wood ashes.

            My elderly neighbor who grew up in a large family during the depression – used wood ashes spread around plants (such as cabbage and hosta) to keep away slugs. I saved ashes from the fireplace last winter (store them in a garbage can) and spread some around in the garden.

            Of course after a good rain, you need to reapply.

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        • kimintn says:

          you do give something huge back!! your medically speaking blog has had wonderful, well written articles on things the average non-medical person probably doesn’t think about – epidemics, disposal of decaying corpses, suture techniques,etc. that, and you give a good bit of humor…just saying… i’ll promote you.

          www dot lizziexbennett dot blogspot dot com.

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      • John W. says:

        Back in 1983 I went on assignment to the SubBase at New London, Ct. While there the Mianis bridge by Greenich dropped off it’s supports shutting the 95 for two months. The reason that happened is the state for many years re directed all the bridge maintenance money to welfare programs. I would bet that is a widespread practice and there are alot of disasters out there just waiting to happen. Best of all is the current practice of awarding the maintenance and upgrade programs to Chinese companies who bring over Chinese workers. Makes you swell with pride that does,eh?

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    10. Archer25 says:

      The short answer is YES, we are very vulnerable. The truth is that our grid is weak and in disrepair and now, to boot, the current administration and the EPA seek to shut down a huge number of Coal fired power plants with no plan to replace them. What is going to fil the HUGE gap in power that those closngs will create? The timing on the closures is very short ordered, between now and 2015, some 50+ coal fired power plants will close. Not only is there going to be a huge hole in thegrd, but also the economy. I wonder if anyone knows(that hasnt worked in one) how many employees, trade union contractors and other workers will loose thier jobs due to these closures?! I personaly know WHOLE TOWNS that will dry up and disappear when the cole fired plants close because they are so much of the local commerce that the shear lack of money will close down the businesses and the citizens will have to move to find work ad be able to survive. I see this as not environental issue, but a key piece of agenda 21 to force people into smaller conpact population centers because the rural areas will loose comerce and then services(based on population density) and the tow will disappear, this part of the “rewilding” plan that they have written about. Please note that this not a “conspiracy theory” it is published in tier own writings in plain language on the UN’s own website(s). IT will interesting to see it unfold, and in the survivalist game, it will truly seperat the men from the boys, so to speak.

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      • KY Mom says:

        Archer25,

        I read in a local paper that 750 coal jobs will be lost within a month due to layoffs. We can all thank Obama and government regulations at the EPA. Of course, Obama did warn in a speech what he planned to do with coal mining.

        We are facing an extimated 2000 mining layoffs this year in eastern Kentucky. That is alot of layoffs in this area and in this economy. Trust me … 2000 layoffs will have a domino effect in local economies.

        They are also shutting down many coal fired plants that produce electricity. Be prepared … your electric bill will increase.

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        • KY Mom says:

          Coal industry sheds jobs, leaving Eastern Kentucky economy in tatters

          “The impact of an estimated 2,000 mining layoffs this year is hitting home across the mountainous coal counties of Eastern Kentucky.”

          http://www.kentucky.com/2012/07/29/2275363/coal-industry-sheds-jobs-leaving.html#storylink=misearch

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        • SWIFT says:

          Pennsylvania will be facing the same thing. That is; whats left of our coal operations. good hard working people, one and all.

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        • Prepared Pastor says:

          I heard on the radio this morning that Alcoa cannot open a plant here unless all the residential customers agree to pay more to buy power on the open market because we will not be able to generate enough electricity once our coal powered plants are shut down here in West Virginia.

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          • KY Mom says:

            I read that the coal fired plant near Louisa, KY (slated to be shut down soon) provides electricity to most counties in eastern KY and some also in West Virginia.

            That will be a huge loss to this area. When that is shut down, we expect the price of electricity to surge.

            The price of natural gas in May 2012 was 43% LOWER than in May 2011. As a result, many U.S. utilities have switched from coal to natural gas.

            The natural gas prices are so low now because they are receiving significant amounts of “federal money” to keep the price low.

            The government picks winners and losers and natural gas is the winner here. Yes, our tax dollars are going to keep natural gas at artifically low prices, which in turn helps shut down coal mines.

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        • John W. says:

          If I remember correctly your state voted for him. hard to work up a tear if that is true. Enjoy.

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      • JustMe says:

        That’s OK, Obummer said They Did’nt Build That…

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    11. lee says:

      You’re in trouble, I’m not; I live in Texas and it’s got its own grid !

      We got our own grid, lots of oil and lots of guns; if anyone of you guys are really worried about this; you better move to Texas because when the SHTF; Texas may not let anybody else in.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Driving five minutes on the Sam Houston loop was enough to convince me that nothing could get me to live there :p

        In all honesty though, I suspect that Texas does lack at least one thing in quantity: Potable water.

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      • moman says:

        why wait for shtf. let’s start now and repel all borders.

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      • When TSHTF Texas will be fighting on 2 fronts, north and south because the mexican drug lords will try to take advantage of the situation. Texas has a lot going for it in common sense and traditional values because they both work but their location is the meat in a sandwich.

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      • JustMe says:

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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      • Angelo Mysteriouso says:

        How can texas keep us types out? When texas can’t even stop mass illeagles invasions?….Seems I read a year ago or so that texas is now slightly Over 1/2 Mexican!

        Texas whitefolks are now a minority. Yet they can keep other “citizens” from going there?….When you guys going to begin practiceing on illeagle invaders First?

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      • John W. says:

        Keep telling yourself that Tex. Whites are now a minority in Texas and getting more so everyday with your border area being one of the most dangerous with the smuggling. You also have grid problems as the state has jumped in with both feet on wind power and some of your coal plants are going away. I love Texans the way they believe their own BS and think it is forty years ago when they had a great state. There are more damn Yankees there now than Texans.

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    12. Jane says:

      I just don’t understand why not everybody has at least a few month worth of food at home. We live in a remote area so a trip to the store is sometimes just not possible. I think everyone should store some staples and other food stuff just in case. We buy our basics at the local stores but we also got great scrambled powdered eggs, freeze dried mushrooms, pineapple and some great tastsing ground beef that has a 25 year shelf life. We got a super discount from http://www.shelfreliancesanantonio.com. When the trucks stop rolling and the stores are empty we will still eat delicious meals. If you order be sure to get some Taco TVP. You’ll kids will swear that you must have stopped by Taco Bell! It’s delicious and inexpensive and delivered right to your door!

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      • Denver Slave says:

        Just saw some of the same stuff at Costco dot com… search for “emergency food” in their search bar.

        Funny how even the big box stores are cashing in on this “survivalist movement”!

        Live Free or Die Hungry

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      • Rico says:

        Because folks would rather spend their money on i-phones , body piercing and tatoos-I was told that most inner city poor have the mentality of”buy what you want, then beg for what you need”

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        • WestVaFolks says:

          We used to donate to a local food pantry until we saw women with salon manicures standing in line while talking on expensive cell phones, then loading boxes of food into late model SUVs. Both of us know the meaning of “poor” – we experienced it first-hand as children in our respective families. You need food? Give up your designer handbags, your French manicures, your Smartphones, your gas guzzlers, your big-screen TVs, your 900 cable channels, your body piercings, your health club membership, your $200 coffeemakers, your QVC jewelry and BUY FOOD FOR YOUR FAMILY!!!

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      • Poor Boy says:

        Just recently saw 203 serving buckets with a 25 year shelf life at Wal-mart. I almost laughed, then bought one because it was only $63. Probably as cheap and crappy as everything else that comes out of those stores but I imagine if I get to the point I’m cracking that bucket open I won’t care.

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      • Joyce says:

        What will protect you when the radiation kills everything in sight. I live in Eastern Washington, and my garden is all but dead. …radiation is rampant.. can’t see it, feel it or stop it.. but it is deadly… and everywhere.

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    13. twistokane says:

      you tell them Jane. Then again im a bit over prepped myself but when the shtf I know there will be others in need of help, and I will be able to help them a bit.

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    14. Azam says:

      I seen this on other news networks this morning. Its a sad thing to see and quite unbelievable how fragile the system really is. It is crazy that no officials have done anything to fix the potential problems. That is why this world is so messed up. There is no one out there smart enough to be proactive. Until people die and bad things happen nothing is done.

      So as a proactive citizen i will be preparing to take care of myself when something bad happens because everyone knows how fast FEMA shows up to help.(Kartina)

      Or that here in the northeast that from a storm it took some people in the area over 10 days to get power back.

      So good luck everyone.

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    15. Genius says:

      You might want to think twice before buying or eating TVP products. Soy is garbage, in the old days they wouldnt even feed it to cattle. So many prepper foods are TVP which I will not touch! info here… http://www.naturalnews.com/022630.html

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    16. Montana Mike says:

      JANE, Here are answers to you question

      1. “It can’t happen here”

      2. “The government will take care of us”

      3. “I don’t have any money”

      Hammerhead, Yes, that 90% fatality seems high. Without electricity manufacturing and distribution ceases. Think water, medicine, food and rioting. It will not take long for the fatalities to begin without an operating electric grid.

      Lots of great comments. Thumbs up!!

      (MM)

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      • You forgot “I can’t be bothered to get off the sofa” and “Why should I spend my money on that when I would rather spend it on fun”
        Grasshopper vs the ants. Know the story? Which are you? Winter always comes and we in the US have had a really nice long spring and summer.

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      • Anonymous says:

        TKS ‘C’ and JayJay both your comments are spot on

        (MM)

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    17. Genius says:

      Not to mention most FLAVORED TVP has msg another nightmare ingredient!… http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html

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    18. Charley Waite says:

      20th anniversary of Andrew here in Miami. That was a real eye opener for me. It ripped up the economy, lives, marriages. And the sheep go right Back to sleep here because ” nothing has happened.” Lines 300 deep for ice, shotgun-toting homeowners, breakdown of law and Katrina caught NO by surprise 15 years later?

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      • kimintn says:

        was there with you. hard to believe it’s been 20 years… and if you folks don’t think it can happen, look up homestead afb, or what used to be a base….

        the one time gov’t did something right; evac’d the jets and didn’t rebuild after the storm.

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    19. its not me says:

      if you knew what I know, you’d be freakin’

      lets just say it resembles bubble gum and bailing wire

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    20. Grid issues is one my greatest concerns. My preparedness strategies always have loss of power as a key component and I try to build as much redundancy in as possible. Practice being of the grid every so often in order to get a good idea of what is effective and what’s not. IMHO a grid down situation would result in the greatest amount of casualties and chaos – more than any other threat.

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    21. king krazy says:

      I’ll laugh my ass off when the grid goes down. In my neighborhood there are nothing but big fat slobs who couldn’t handle a little storm. I believe the emotion is will have is called Schadenfreude. It will be hilarious to see those blubbers on their little “hover rounds” when the battery goes dead. The reason i am so cold hearted is #1 most people put them selves in that position by not taking care of them selves and #2 i told several morons to prep and they didn’t/won’t and when they come creeping around i amd going to “learn them some permanent manners!” get ready boys cause anything and I mean anything can happen at anytime to turn your world upside down. The only thing certain is death.

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      • you don't need to know says:

        It’s hard to be so cold hearted, but my BOBs are ready to go, it’ll take 2 days to bike to our BOL (hoping to get an old car for this exact reason). Where there’s thousands of dollars of preps. All those people I tried to talk to who knew something what up but didn’t do anything about it….DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!

        Good luck!

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      • Prepared Pastor says:

        I stopped warning people over two years ago when I was looking for people to go in on an old dairy farm. Now when they want to plan a camping trip at my ‘cabin’ I just say no thanks and have taken no one there outside my immediate family. Some may show up here and they are welcome to come and watch the place while we’re gone which may be a mighty long time.

        I have to admit I’ve given up on preppers as well. They have good intentions, but all the ones I have bothered to meet have focused on a couple areas and have gaping holes in their life boats.

        I’m focusing on building stronger relationships with my retreat neighbors who have been practicing the skills for generations as they live their daily lives. Are you already butchering your own game, heating with wood, canning garden produce, etc? No? Move along. Nothing to see here.

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        • justincase says:

          I still have gaping holes, not because of any reason but time and money. In a year I have accumulated food and now working on other key preps. I have a generator, about 6 month lamp oil, a wood stove, my gaping hole with that is pipe and installation which will be befor winter this year. I have a cb need the antenna, bits an peices but coming together. Have one neighbor that is prepping also which is a relief and I know most of my nwighborhood and know who is on meds who drinks too much and who has skills and things needed which is a bonus. I hope to fill my holes before shtf. I am not a retreat owner, but un rural area on a dead end road so at least I have a lil chance. I wish it were a private road but what can ya do? I have faith and that is everything and know I will have a means to eat, drink and keep warm. all teh holes I believe will be filled. My intentions are good and my goals are big. But you can only do what you acn afford. Not all preppers have alot of money or we came in late in the game. I have been in teh game for a year and considering my budget I have done pretty well. It is hard to buy protection when some and most are very costly, or 10 acres of farm. Gosh farm animals alone are expensive. It takes time and money to do this that is for sure.

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          • glacialhills says:

            It only takes a day to put in a wood stove but I have yet to find a way to get a winters worth of seasoned(optimum word) firewood in under a year. Cut at least 6 cords and split it and stack it… and wait 6 months minimum, one year better..2 years for Oak.like money in the bank.

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          • GA Girl says:

            I would love to be more prepared, but hubby is not on board to go all out and money is very limited. I do what I can mostly on my own. He supports having extra supplies on hand. That’s about where it ends, though.

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        • glacialhills says:

          I’d rather eat our crockpot squirrel than a walmart hormone laden chicken any-day. We don’t ever eat store canned veggies anymore, just can not go back once we have had our own canned green beans or peaches…and dont get me started on the lies that they call apples.

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          • glacialhills says:

            Really? a thumbs down for my comment. You dont like eating home canned peaches over del monte, flavorful home grown/canned green beans over a tin can of salty ho ho ho green beans or a couple of tender squirrels with gravy and potatoes? or are you a walmart employee…heck I luv Walmart,but any store bought chicken or beef is a less than homegrown and full of things I would not feed my kids if I could help it.

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          • KY Mom says:

            glacialhills,

            Don’t let the thumbs down get you upset. There are trolls who surf this site.

            Home canned produce from the garden is the best! The only thing better might be fresh picked from the garden and eaten that day. :)

            KY Mom

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        • glacialhills says:

          Oh and just getting the last of the 2014 wood split and stacked.

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    22. Tym says:

      “The power grid in America…”

      Is not connected to the one here in TX!

      “Ha Ha!”

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    23. Tomas says:

      Sad to see that politicians the world over are all the same. Must deflect criticism. I,love when things are screwed up, the answer is how bad the other guys are. Yeesh.

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    24. PO'd Patriot says:

      Ok, so their grid system is crap. We have an antiquated system that has been talked about for a long time and very little done to upgrade. We’ve gone around this stump (ad nauseum) in quite a few discussions and some of you here act like this is your first rodeo. Please don’t prove Rich 99 right in that some of you act like Henny Penny and if I might say, sound pretty goofy. I know a lot of folks don’t have the funds to get totally off the grid but there are some things that can be done to ease your situation. And yes, we only get to see each others writing/comments and hear not the tone nor context of the comment. I’m worried that some of you here are gonna have a heart-a-stroke.

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    25. the realist says:

      ALL WE NEED IS EACH OTHER TO JOIN FORCES AND WE WILL SURVIVE..

      2012 IS NOT THE END OF TIMES..SO KEEP FEEDING $$ THE BEAST..US GOV…

      KEEP PREPPING..& KEEP PRAYING AS WELL

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    26. VanMom says:

      Sorry in advance for the off-topic post, but has anyone heard from Manos?

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    27. Hope@ZeroKelvin says:

      Death of 90% of Americans after an EMP strike bad enough to take down the US power grids is not an over estimation.

      Loss of the US power grids takes you back to 1870s tech, or worse, cuz we’ve lost so much knowledge of how to farm and manufacture stuff without our fancy electronics and machines. You could argue we would be in WORSE shape that living in 1870s tech cuz of this knowledge loss (and the loss of any idea of what hard work really is).

      We are currently a nation of 311 million. If only 10% survive, that is approx 31 million, which is a little less than the 38.5 million Americans counted in the 1870s census.

      Of note, the first US census was in 1790 and we were a nation of 3.9 million.

      When you have a nation that has so many people on disability or food stamps, with chronic illnesses, the millions in nursing homes or hospitals, the millions who depend on complex (and vulnerable) food and fuel supply lines – oh yeah, 90% die off in 6 months is probably the optimistic scenario.

      This whole EMP scenario is so bad I don’t think that the Pentagon even bothers to war game it anymore. Certainly our CONgresscritters haven’t lifted a finger to harden the grid or prepare the country.

      This is a low probability but high impact event but one that you can prepare for, a bit. Problem is you will be overwhelmed by the 99% who are totally unprepared.

      Then what?

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      • Gregory the watcher says:

        Secretly those in the know have been getting ready for years. In the mountains of Montana and Wyoming they have set themselves up to restart life as they have in other parts of the world. People there is LAE (life altering event) in play that will reduce the world population by 2/3′s. You may ask how I know this and why? The how is unimportant. The why is because our planet has reached the saturation level and space exploration hasnt reached the anticipated level of projection. It was a plan B that depopulation would be a necessary option if space colonization failed. So here we are 60 years in the future. I wish all good luck, and godspeed. Prep hard and stay alert.

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      • glacialhills says:

        I do believe that I read that The Author of One second After said he has talked with Newt who wrote the forward to his book and other congress people that if the government just put 150 locomotives in hardened bunkers around the country they would be able to get shipments of basic grain and med supplies throughout the country in as little as 6 months after a full out emp event.The limiting factor, if there were no other problems (ya right)would be time clearing tracks of all dead trains.One train could feed an entire city a basic ration.

        If they Bought double when getting any supplies for systems and stored the backup electronics in out of country staging areas like the navy does for fast deployment, they could get the grid up in a year.

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        • Montana Mike says:

          Hello GH, The locomotive idea is a good one up to a point. Where will the diesel fuel come from for all those engines. The other basic consideration is the time factor. Many deaths will occur before help arrives for those who were unprepared and especially the sick and elderly.

          If the TPTB would spend more time working on solutions there might be a better chance for more to survive. oh yeah not their concern.

          HOPE@… Great, right on message. thank you

          The book “One Second After” is a good read but it does not address in any depth the ‘First Winter’. Good read but a somewhat optimistic ending…just my opinion.

          (MM)

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        • John W. says:

          Remember when the US kept a two to three year supply of grain in storage for those bad times and to smooth out shortages? They have not done that in years and if the food supply takes a big hit as it will this year from the drought food prices will take off. The Bush ethanol mandate will make it much worse. In many ways Bush was just as big a putz as Obama.

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    28. Viper says:

      I’ve been to Northern India, the majority of people there live off the land, get their fresh water from rivers produced by runoff from the Himalayas. Electricity is more of a luxury to them, although the big cities are more dependent and vulnerable to outages. The United States on the other hand is far more dependent on the power grid, and a prolonged massive outage of that magnitude would be devastating.

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    29. VanMom says:

      Thank you, Burt!

      I rarely hear the word “Greece” come up in the news without thinking of Manos!

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    30. Satori says:

      shades of the Olduvai Gorge Theory ???

      http://www.oilempire.us/olduvai.html

      “”the collapse will be strongly correlated with an ‘epidemic’ of permanent blackouts of high-voltage electric power networks — worldwide”

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    31. moman says:

      Saw on yahoo news where a Dem. introduced a bill to restrict the sale of ammunition and to make it illegal for anyone to sell ammo without a liscene or on the internet. Okay people,enough is enough. More control isn’t going to bring back anyone from colorado or any other horrendous episode. Saw it put well on a sign. “If guns kill people,then pencils misspell words”

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      • JayJay says:

        And spoons made my butt fat.

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      • John W. says:

        Seems like every weekend there are thirty or forty people from the hood killed in Chicago and bunches more wounded. Guess they don’t rate much mention or reaction. Should show them what the left really thinks of the underclass.

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    32. Kevin2 says:

      I put in almost 30 years in a power plant phased into the utility. Deregulation allowed non utility generators to supply power and that’s where the investment went. Transmission (the grid) became the bastard child of the industry. According to utility sources we talked to there was a lot of overkill or fat within the system but that has been cut into over the years with barely sufficient reinvestment to maintain reliability.

      All of this has been a gradual long time coming with the US living off it’s past in many areas. The more you compete with the third world the more you start to act like the third world.

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      • JustMe says:

        That can’t happen here! We won World War 2!

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        • Gwyn says:

          Last I look that generation is dieing out. They knew skills that we do not know. My grandmother grew up on farm knew how to tap a Maple tree in her yard during the WW11.
          My dad fought in the war and he knew skills that would not work in this day and age. Like Cars with way to many computer parts. For those who have been relearning skills there hope but most people have not.

          Just because one or two generation lived threw the War does not mean we have their skills.

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          • DPS says:

            Gwyn,

            I suggest a trip to Amazon.com Look up the Foxfire books and buy the whole set in paper back ( I case the grid goes down) you will love those books. I know I have had alot of fun reading them and then trying some of those projects. Some of these skills date bake before cars. LOL

            DPS

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          • you don't need to know says:

            DPS, they are the best books to have if and when TSHTF!!! Talk about awesome ideas, things even our grandparents probably didn’t even know. Two other books I recommend are where there’s no doctor or dentist.

            Good luck!

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          • JustMe says:

            Gwyn,

            I was being fecitious, recounting the response I’ve gotten to so many issues I’ve tried to raise with people.

            “That can’t happen here! We won WW2!”

            There are actually people who believe because of that, everything will be OK forever.

            Another good source of “lost tech” books is Lindsay Books

            ttp://www.lindsaybks.com/

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    33. Archivist says:

      Everyone should visit the Urban Danger website listed in the trailer and go to 20:52 in the free online video. Roscoe Bartlett not only talks about getting out of the city, but he has actually done it. You need to see his cabin, how it’s laid out, how he pumps water to an attic storage tank, how he heats and cooks, etc. He has a really good setup that he’s been working on for years. The rest of the video is great, but I especially liked Bartlett’s cabin.

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    34. copperhead says:

      This country is about 1/2 degree from the boiling point anything can and will cause that temp to rise. There are so many things going on that can cause it, IT IS NOT FUNNY. You had better live off the grid as long as you can to get use to it. The goverment is grearing up fast now for some event to take place in the very and I mean very near future. Why would Big O gear up if he knew that he will lose and have to give up this power. I don’t think there are going to be election,s this fall and they know they will have to deal with the 1% of us that will not go out guietly like the 99% of the sheeple will. They know we will fight tooth and nail for our freedom, and that of our love ones, so get ready for the main event to start soon. Don’t trust anyone around you and yours, they will turn on you in a heart beat. The only ones to trust other than family and I have some ? there, are like minded and I mean like minded. So just perpare and do what you have to, to stay alive through this SH-T BURGER coming our way. Look the NWO crowd has shown their hand and they will have to play now not later. Thats just me thinking out loud
      STAND TALL AND MAKE THEM KNOW WHERE THEY GOT IT

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      • John W. says:

        I would bet that they are going to make that big event. I have a pretty good idea what it is and will cause rioting of a racial nature which will destroy this nation. I bet alot of you have also thought about the same game plan being carried out.

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    35. huh? says:

      I read somwhere that India drived their
      power by recycling their own crap-
      Anyone else want to chime in?

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    36. you don't need to know says:

      I’ve read several books on this and can only imagine how it’ll play out. What I haven’t heard of is the nuclear power plants, how will they handle no electricity?

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      • EAGLEDOVE says:

        Other than electricity., I saw a report on the news that the nuclear power plants might get into trouble because of not enough water. :(

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      • Denver Slave says:

        Umm, don’t they *Generate* electricity… or does that go away when the EMP fries the control circuits? Would think the government in its infinite wisdom would have thought of that and hardened the essential circuits in case of *Nuclear War*…

        But wtf do I know…

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      • HalfKin says:

        THEY WON’T HANDLE IT VERY WELL AT ALL…

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        • John W. says:

          If the cooling water pumps are fried it is game over. At least as far as generating any power. The reactor will be shut down and left that way until the situation normalizes.

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    37. Denver Slave says:

      Hey Mac,

      I just noticed I have quite a few comments awaiting moderation… no websites or URL’s listed. What gives?

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      • sorry, stepped out to do some river swimming today so the queue got backed up… the system should start auto approving you by recognizing your email addy… not sure when that happens, but it should…

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    38. clint hospo says:

      off topic but I view this and intelhub what do you guys think of that website. Good or a bit overkill conspiracy curious. But it had a video on gun control today under one of the links today with a 20 min video and showed a video of when new orleans was flooded and troops went around asking people to open their homes and in some cases kicking in doors to confiscate guns. Most of us saw this but they go violent when comming into peoples homes. my question is our any of you going to fire back when they kick in doors or hide them. would like to know what you might do. you know what im going to do with a 12 guage with 7 shots of buckshot to the face with a ps90 backup.

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      • JustMe says:

        Don’t worry, that can’t happen here, either…

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      • Prepared Pastor says:

        Just like with investing, diversification is the key to risk reduction. Only buy guns from private sellers so there is no record of the sale. Divide your armory between several places such as at home in the safe, in a wall at your retreat, in a bug out bag, or even in a fake bottom in the trunk of a car parked at a friend’s home.

        During a localized event like a hurricane, I would not to resist, but hand them a tract and tell them I am a Jehovah Witness and do not believe in guns (although they do allow them for hunting). Let them search your home after demanding a warrant (which they will not have) and take what they can find.

        During a true SHTF event, I would have to protect my family against all threats foreign and domestic.

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        • LOL! My parents are Jehovah’s Witnesses and they have many guns. They have been having people be more prepared. Having BOB, making sure to have some food and water. But most importantly being mentally prepared for the Great Tribulation.

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      • KY Mom says:

        Obama to ‘evaluate’ Internet ammo ban…

        Direct link on Drudge Report

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      • MXLord327 says:

        I keep a couple old, broken & non-repairable guns around to hand over – 1 shotgun, 1 rifle, and 1 handgun. The good stuff is all hidden well!!!

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    39. My wood stove and axe don’t need electricity. I would miss air conditioning, by the time we ran out of food we could grow our own and have a root cellar and smoke house. Maybe.

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    40. braveheart says:

      mac, tn andy, burt, archer: you’re all right on target, but i believe we’ll lose 90% of our population within the first 2 months post-grid failure. i’m stuck in a city so i’ll be living in interesting times as the old chinese proverb goes. from july 4 to july 11 of 2003 we were without power due to an alleged windshear incident in memphis. it took six days to get the power restored in residential areas. i had plenty of extra food, water, medical supplies, fuel for my coleman stove, batteries for my flashlights and radios, guns, ammo, etc. i survived the whole affair with flying colors. i’ve been thru numerous hurricanes in florida with the same provisions and lived without power for even longer in some of those cases. so i already have some idea of what to expect when tshtf, although i know it will make the other times look like a walk in the park. take care and keep prepping.

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    41. TnAndy says:

      Maybe indeed.

      Got seed set aside ? How many seasons have you grown a garden big enough to live off for a year ?

      Smokehouse ? Got to HAVE something to smoke. My guess is every four legged critter ( and not a few of 2 legs ) will be eaten in a few months. Unless you live in a Swiss style house over the barn, plan to spend every night up guarding your dogs, cats, livestock, and anything else that moves. There won’t be a deer or turkey in the woods in short order.

      Ever canned on a wood stove ? Got jars, and thousands of lids ? Got a couple of canners or an American 941 you can do 20 quarts/run ? How about a way to wash all the towels you need ? Wife says we always have a clothes basket FULL of dish towels when were done with a canning run…got soap ? Got a washboard ?

      Folks, there are SO many things it takes to even come close to be self-sufficient, it would scare the pants off you if you start really thinking about it.

      My parting words are: If you AIN’T doing it now, you sure as heck won’t be doing it THEN.

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      • you don't need to know says:

        If you’re going to prep, PLEASE prep like there’s no electricity!!! Go for worse case senerio and than if it’s not that bad you’ll have prepped and learned alot. There are more senerios where electicity, fuel runs out than it doesn’t, IMHO.

        Good luck!!!

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      • arco says:

        I’ve been thinking about the whole laundry thing. I’ve been keeping my eye out for one of those old antique wash tubs with the ringer.

        You’re right it takes a lot more than just buy a bunch of food and bullets. But as for the wild critters. Depending where you live, most city folk and a few rural dwellers don’t have the skills to hunt. Been hunting since I was a kid, the animals don’t exactly come running up to you and say shoot me.

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      • PO'd Patriot says:

        TnAndy just picked up the 930. Still got the ol’ Mirro though.

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      • This comment has rubbed me the wrong way. You have great points, but the fact of the matter is I have only been “prepping ” about a year. I do not plan or want to be totally self sufficient. It would be nice, but for us it is not possible. We do the best we can and try to learn more as time goes on. I cannot even raise chickens where I live. I want to move but that’s easier said then done. There are lots of wants, I try and focus on the needs. Even hundreds of years ago people had to go to the store, or barter. No man is an island.

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        • kimintn says:

          @ JL. i know it feels frustrating and overwhelming, esp with a tight budget, but don’t give up hope. having lived thru several hurricanes, treat it like camping. think of what you’d need if you were to take the family out to a campsite, only think of your house as the tent. start small with that mindset, and you will see you can do a lot with a little creativity. food, water(or juice, or soda), light, soap, tp, and bandaids, radio, cards. and bugspray.

          if you have the time, go camping for real and see what you forgot to pack, then you’ll know what you need!

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    42. braveheart says:

      Clint Hospo: I’m with you all the way on the resistance part. I’ll be ready with my M1 Carbine and a Springfield XD40. Anyone who forces their way into my humble abode, i don’t care who you are, you die. It’s our natural right to self-defense. Always remember that law enforcement DO NOT “PROTECT AND SERVE” the public. THEY SERVE GOVERNMENT. They risk their lives for GOVERNMENT, NOT THE PUBLIC; they are not “public servants”. Check out a book titled DIAL 911 AND DIE. It shows in detail numerous state and federal supreme court rulings that will verify what i’m saying. LE has no obligations toward the public according to those rulings. They don’t care about the public anyway. So in any situation where you’re facing a burglar, people wanting to take your preps, etc., you will be on your own. When tshtf, all the rules we’ve ever lived by will go out the window and I don’t think anyone will be around to enforce them anyway, at least not in the initial phase. If/when i get into such a situation, i’ll handle it anyway i consider necessary and ANYONE’S laws restricting self-defense BE DAMNED! All that’s going to matter in such a situation is saving yourself, family, preps, etc. I went to a gun show over the weekend and picked up some more .30 carbine ammo; couldn’t find any more 30-round mags; i’ll try elsewhere. take care and keep prepping.

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    43. Anonymous says:

      TnAndy@ funny u would mention. that..The other day canning pears,i actually thought of doing it over an open fire, if u know ur methods not hard at all.i realized also that here we barter without really realizing it,I have alot of eggs and garden stuff,i traded my eggs for pears and etc..i guess country people still live a certain way,why pay cash when i got sometbing u want and visa vera..I keep my
      outh shut now,i have realized people will prepare or they wont, know matter what happens or. whether seen on the news.i find that very sad when concerning children in these famlies,for they dont have a voice. never think for a second that it cant happen here,because it will and does in some shape and form almost every day..keep being prepared ,because usually when slack off thats when it will happen

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    44. Lindsey says:

      Perhaps that new tv show coming out about the grid going down will put people to action preparing. (Big eye roll inserted here).

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    45. Anonymous says:

      TnAndy,funny thing, i was thinking. about that the other day
      While canning pears,if u know ur amounts and times,canning over a. fire not hard.I have lots of heirloom seeds stored.No matter how hard i workk in the garden one year can be great ,the next can be a bummer ,were all at. the mercury of motherr nature,same goes with ur fruit trees.I keep my mouth shout know,i have realizzed no matter what happens around us and around this world,people have already decided to prep or not,nothing will change there
      ind..i know one thing thou,when. u slack off in prepping, thats when it will get you

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    46. arco says:

      Just bought a set of cast iron cookware. Looking forward to the weather cooling off in a couple of months to start experimenting with them on the wood stove. Its one thing to have preps, its another to know how to use them.

      Anybody got some good recipes they would like to share?

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      • RICH99 says:

        as long as you plan on using them while you 80 or 90 or 100 or longer

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      • DieselDan says:

        Arco cast iron is awesome just got my first set this spring started off with soups, chili and beans and now I’m up to cornbread and lasagna only takes a lil getting use to. Good luck and enjoy!

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      • HalfKin says:

        Look into the cook book called ,”Warm and Tasty”.
        Full of excellent recipes and history!
        It can be found on Amazon of course. It is a wood heat stove cook book that teaches how to construct on oven over one too.
        When we had the homestead, I used a trivet, a cast iron dutch oven, a lid and a huge metal bowl upside down over the whole works and baked pies on top of the Grand Daddy Fischer Stove.
        I recently re-purchased it and I still love the food,
        Yum Yum

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    47. someone says:

      what if the olympics aren’t being aired live in the states for the reason when something does happen – they will have plenty of time to review footage and release just exactly what they want. that way there are no mistakes in footage like with 9/11. does anyone think that is a possibility? does anyone think something is going to happen?

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    48. RICH99 says:

      YAWN !!!!!!!

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    49. T.R. says:

      This doesn’t affect half of Indias population , they still have a caste system of sorts . Their middle class is growing but by in large your either wealthy or dirt poor .

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    50. 7 3/4 tinfoil hat says:

      got hit by hurricane fran back in ’96….power out for 17 days…long, hot,humid, days….i was young and stupid then, didn’t have anything prepared…never again! if the grid goes down, i’m good for a couple of months now….however, it’s the other people i’m worried about.

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    51. Daniel San says:

      TnAndy. You throw a lot of good questions. Thanks more things to think about. As For me
      Working towards a garden got seeds got screening to keep critters out, as for 2 leg critters sling shot,paint ball gun,cross bow ,12 gauge take your pick. Lol. Very fortunate to be from the farm and my parents always made us weed the garden. Lucky ,got a green thumb. Food out of a garden tasts so much better knowing you grew it. Hope to be planting next year.
      Going with out power will be a struggle for all, it’s part of our daily lives now. One of the biggest factors for me is clean water, mine comes from my well which is about 180 ft deep. Found a few good ideas for hand pumps. See where it goes. Been doing research on old ways and how things are made. Ex. home made corn meal, buckwheat pancakes. If any one can refer me to a book on things like that , would appreciate it. Thanks. Peace All .

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    52. Ted Kennedy says:

      Makes me want to go out and buy two Volt cars. Sucs to be Indian.

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    53. Nakor says:

      Just heard it is 600 million now, in stead of 370. Thats like half of the people that live there…

      Greetings from The Netherlands

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    54. Barn Cat says:

      We’re going to see the same thing in the US after hyperinflation. Once our electric bills are $5000 a month the grid will go down because 95% of the population won’t be able to pay their bills.

      It’s bad enough when that happens in the summer but it would be catastrophic for most of the country if it happened in winter. At least 100 million would freeze to death in the US.

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    55. braveheart says:

      To everyone: What you see in the oicture above is coming someday to a city or town near you. Take care and keep prepping.

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    56. its not me says:

      makes you wonder if this is a test

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    57. the realist says:

      Probably some china based hacker flipped the switch..for fun..

      This is the new world that we are living in now.. and the “live show” is not even started as of yet!!!

      INTERESTING TIMES AHEAD

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    58. JayJay says:

      reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/uk-india-blackout-idUSLNE86U01G20120731
      Two hundred miners were stranded in three deep coal shafts in the state of West Bengal when their electric elevators stopped working.
      On Monday, India was forced to buy extra power from the tiny neighbouring kingdom of Bhutan to help it recover from a blackout that hit more than 300 million people
      “With poor economic management UPA has emptied the pockets of common man; kept stomachs hungry with inflation & today pushed them into darkness,”
      With less rain to irrigate crops, more farmers resort to electric pumps to draw water from wells
      Grappling with the slowest economic growth in nine years, the government recently scaled back a target to pump $1 trillion into infrastructure over the next five years

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    59. JayJay says:

      reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/uk-india-blackout-idUSLNE86U01G20120731
      Two hundred miners were stranded in three deep coal shafts in the state of West Bengal when their electric elevators stopped working.
      On Monday, India was forced to buy extra power from the tiny neighbouring kingdom of Bhutan to help it recover from a blackout that hit more than 300 million people
      “With poor economic management UPA has emptied the pockets of common man; kept stomachs hungry with inflation & today pushed them into darkness,”
      With less rain to irrigate crops, more farmers resort to electric pumps to draw water from wells
      Grappling with the slowest economic growth in nine years, the government recently scaled back a target to pump $1 trillion into infrastructure over the next five years

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    60. JayJay says:

      Why our posts duplicating??

      The population of India is 1,189,172,906 people.
      That’s 1189 million!!!! Yikes.

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    61. Obtuseangler says:

      Have to get that wood stove in before winter.

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      • WestVaFolks says:

        OA & all:
        PLEASE MAKE CERTAIN YOU’RE NOT ALLERGIC TO THE SMOKE BEFORE INSTALLING A WOOD-BURNING STOVE! I’ve had severe asthma since childhood and inhaling the smoke from a wood-burning stove/fire makes my lungs shut down; in less than a minute, I am literally gasping for breath. (Hubby has no problem, the lucky duck.) If any family members have asthma, emphysema or COPD, you may want to consider an alternate method of heating your home.

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    62. ScoutMotto says:

      Looks like a bad day for tech support.

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    63. T.R. says:

      Another thing to remember about India is that its an ” emerging ” nation . Unlike the US , they dont have the decades long experience of maintaining a grid , we complain when our power goes out for 3 days or even a day , in countries like that , it may take weeks or longer for it to get back up to where it was . They dont have the tools , experience or manpower yet . Worrying about them and comparing it to possibly happening here is apples and oranges . Yes we could have a grid failure , thing is , WE know WTF we are doing ……….they dont yet .

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    64. Satori says:

      now over 700 million affected

      can you say cascading FAILURE ??

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/31/india-blackout-electricity-power-cuts?INTCMP=SRCH

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    65. Satori says:

      The Vision Part 1 Blackout

      interesting fictional scenario of how a grid down situation might play out

      http://yooperstrails.blogspot.com/2008/02/vision-part-i-blackout.html

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

     
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