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  • Clarocet for Kids
     

    Here Comes the Pain: Detroit To “Significantly Cut Vested Pensions” For Retirees

    Mac Slavo
    July 11th, 2013
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (116)
    Read by 16,816 people

    piggybank-breaks

    During the summer of 2011, as Ben Bernanke and his mainstream propaganda arm convinced Americans that green shoots were cropping up all over the nation, warnings of the coming destruction of America’s pension funds had begun to emerge.

    Government employees may currently enjoy higher salaries and benefits than the private sector, but they have been given a false sense of security.

    Whether you are a police officer, fireman, school teacher, or utility worker, you could have serious problems down the road.

    Chances are that every major metropolitan area in the country is heavily in the red. This means that the jobs and retirement futures of millions of people are under threat.

    [The only] option will be for ex-Federal governments to start reducing benefits and firing workers.

    Just two years on we’re seeing the warnings manifest in the real world.

    Once again, we focus the microscope on Detroit, which to those paying attention, is America’s canary in the coal mine signaling what’s to come for the rest of the country.

    With the threat of a city bankruptcy looming, Detroit city workers and retirees are pushing back against the state-appointed emergency manager, filing lawsuits to limit his options and refusing to accept demands to keep details of their discussions secret.

    One lawsuit, filed in Ingham County Circuit Court in the state capital Lansing, seeks to stop Governor Rick Snyder from allowing the emergency manager, Kevyn Orr, to file Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy. That lawsuit claims Orr’s plan to significantly cut vested pensions would violate strong protections in the Michigan constitution for retirement benefits of public-sector workers.

    In his June 14 proposal to creditors, Orr listed pensions as unsecured debt of the city. Payment on pensions, retiree healthcare and $641 million of general obligation bonds all would be made from the city’s proceeds from $2 billion of notes Orr plans to sell as part of his restructuring plan.

    The plan, if enacted, would be expected to result in significant cuts in pension payments. Although the city currently lists $643.7 million in unfunded pension liabilities, Orr in his report said the number is closer to $3.5 billion if “more realistic assumptions” are taken into account.

    Pensions generally are considered off limits in bankruptcies, Nicholson said. “It’s very, very rare for any entity to go after people’s pensions because it puts people in the poor house,” he said.

    The push back from labor groups is a new front in a growing resistance to Orr’s efforts.

    Notice that everyone assumes the unfunded liabilities are $640 million, but in reality, once you start looking at the numbers, the city owes five times as much – $3.5 billion! That’s a significant miscalculation.

    It’s very simple to figure out what happens here using basic arithmetic.

    Labor unions and city employees can sue the city to their heart’s content. This will not change the facts:

    There’s no money.

    See, this is the problem at its root.  The unions bargained in bad faith, either knowing factually or being in possession of enough information to know that what they were asking for couldn’t be provided.  It was fiscally impossible given the projected increase in cost over the retiree lifetimes.

    They didn’t care and they bludgeoned the city and its people into approving these “contracts” anyway.

    The problem is that the only remaining options are to take some fraction of the original amount which can actually be paid or get nothing.  And the longer they wait and the harder they push the closer to zero their recovery becomes, as the cost of litigation takes from the recovery and in addition the city continues to decay and will keep doing so until it is fiscally restored to a sound foundation with its taxes and spending brought both into balance and to a competitive level.

    Kevyn Orr doesn’t have to concede anything.  He holds the whip hand in that the city is a wasting asset and the longer the unions keep screwing around and screaming the less they get.

    Karl Denninger’s Market Ticker

    This is a nationwide problem.

    If you are a government employee, a labor union member, or even a retiree from the private sector, you had better be looking for ways to protect your current retirement portfolio or find yourself a new source of income, because that money you’ve been promised is going to be wiped out.

    The pain is coming and millions of Americans will end up in the poor house as a result.

    BET ON IT:

    We’ve discussed the coming wave of State and local defaults, and it appears that the end game is close…

    Eventually, the Federal government will hit its (real) debt ceiling as well. That will happen when no one else but The Federal Reserve will buy the US Treasury’s debt issues, at which point the retirement accounts, 401k’s, savings and dollar denominated assets of every American will be completely and utterly destroyed.

    No worries, right? Because they told you that YOUR retirement account is perfectly safe and those investments you’ve spent your entire life acquiring are in good hands.

    Do you really want to keep pretending this isn’t happening?

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 16,816 people
    Date: July 11th, 2013
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    116 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Silent Running says:

      I am in the same boat as a lot of other people, I cant touch my 401K as long as I am working for the same company. My only options are to quit work and take the money and run, or continue working there and hope for the best.

      • Rodster says:

        Here’s another reason why we and the global economies are headed for the crapper. You can find the link at cnsnews.com

        “Kerry: In a World of Governments Failing, U.S. and China Must Set Example”

        ……priceless !

        • OutWest says:

          We can talk to the sheeple til we’re blue in the face
          about the virtues of prepper survival. but nothing is
          going to wake them up quite like the reality of losing
          everything they have worked so long and hard for.
          Sad but true.

          • Be informed says:

            Today the stock market went up, want to know why? That future tar and feathered helicopter ben said that there will still be plenty of future stimulus to the economy. Oh boy, more printed money, lots of it. The stock market is happy again. Anyone stupid enough to believe that printing money non stop will save the economy deserves to be stuck in a 2 mile long breadline waiting for some stale crackers and moldy hard government cheese to go with it. This country is going down the drain, and the masses are too naive to understand why.

            The same history repeats itself again. A very powerful country that goes down the road of devaluating their money. Same results, true economic depression that leads to war. It happens again and again. Is it planned out or are people just too stupid to understand what happens to overused printing presses? Don’t know, just know the ultimate results. F’ed in spades for the whole country. Is it my imagination, or is helicopter ben beginning to more and more resemble a baboon?

            • Captain Ron says:

              The American economy… worn smooth clean out… like a $2 dollar whore on nickle night.

            • 41MagMan says:

              “This country is going down the drain, and the masses are too naive to understand why.”

              I agree on going down the drain but wonder if it is less a matter of being naive and more a matter of being in denial.

              It is entirely possible that our leaders will have to choose between saving the mooch class and saving the country. They have already confronted the choice between growing the economy and growing the government; they chose poorly on that issue, so their record is not good.

          • 41MagMan says:

            I agree, OutWest. This is sometimes called the “2×4 upside the head” lesson… and it’s a hard lesson.

      • 401kless says:

        Quit and take the money. Spend it while you can. I did.

        • @401k
          me too best decision I ever made.

          • Hanson says:

            And ed, how do you know it was the best decision you ever made? If you spent all of your money like 401kless did then what makes you think you are safe from life’s unexpected turns for the worse… I’m not saying to keep your money in a 401k, but to take it all out and spend it is a most foolish idea….

        • Hanson says:

          And soon you’ll be broken down physically and unable to work and the rest of us will have to take care of your disabled behind because you spent all of your money. You need to read about the Ant and the Grasshopper. People like you are one of the biggest problems we have.

      • jane says:

        I’m in the same boat as you. I have a state pension and worry that Illinois will be next. But I’ll tell something, don’t lose sleep over it because when it happens everything else will come falling down too, including those derivatives that are going to take out the world’s economy. No one will have any money. I believe that when that happens that will be the end of money. Once people get used to living w/out money the world will become a better place. I really believe that non-monetary economy is next step in our evolution.

        • Leslie Anne says:

          Yeah, no more money…it will be replaced with “the mark of the beast”. The one world gov’ment will probably credit each person equally so it’s more fair. Of course some are more equal than others so they’ll credit themselves more than sufficiently.

        • lower40 says:

          misery likes company

        • PO'd Patriot says:

          You’re so right Jane. No point in dwelling on it as it’ll just make you sick doing so. Detroit has been a basket case for more than ten years. Sure there are other municipality basket cases, but it’ll take many years for them to fall. It’ll take a full market crash to get them there sooner. When that happens we’ll all be in the same boat sharing the oars.

        • Puddin says:

          Thats called communism. Youve seen how good that works out historically.

        • chuck123 says:

          No! We need to go back to a sound monetary system. let gold and silver compete with our current fiat currency. Check out this video on youtube called “The American Dream by The Provocateur Network.”

        • Mordecai says:

          @Jane,
          I think you’ve made an interesting point. It reminds me of a man I knew 30+ years ago who was a kid during the Great Depression. He said that everyone where he lived in the farm country of west Texas was in the same boat: broke. It was interesting to him as a kid because people made due, simple things brought pleasure, and neighbors got along. Realistically I suspect when our drugged society runs out of mood altering drugs, when people run out of food and water, when they see their neighbor has some preps and is getting by, and when people can’t watch stupid TV shows or play electronic games,that we will be in for a rough time. I wish you and yours the best, keep prepping!

      • Stealth Spaniel says:

        Take the money and run! When I retired from AT&T, I cashed my pension out. If I go down the tubes, I will do so under my own flag. While you may miss your weekly salary, you CAN cut back, downsize, and reconfigure. You will also find out that you have incredible skills that your previous employer gave you no credit for. You will not regret leaving.

      • Sergio says:

        Hmmmm. The evidence points to you losing your 401k no matter what because they simply can’t be funded so take the promised payout before you get bailed in. Your other option is to keep working for wages as you lose purchasing power. Rock, meet hard place. So, how long will your job last? What are your wages over that time? Will you lose too much by staying or is there another job to go to? If so, go for it.

      • Silent Running I am not a lawyer, but I don’t see why you can’t role “some” of your 401k into an IRA.

        I realize you must keep the 401k open, but if you are vested or have a vested sum that is something an IRA administrator should be able to move for you.

        Once in an IRA you can move to a self directed IRA, buy land, gold, homes or darn near whatever you want.

      • Phenom1 says:

        Why would you want to touch your 401K? Are the fees very high? Not touching my 401K for thirty years is what allowed me to retire early.

        The author is referring to pension funds which are generally underfunded. These concerns do not apply to 401Ks as Fiduciary Regulations require that your employer file statements periodically regarding the actual funds held.

      • Rocketman says:

        Your best solution? Quit your job and take your 401k and cash it in then move to another country like Uruguay and convert the cash over to Uruguayan pesos. The “you know what” is about to hit and you need to be somewhere that this economic disaster is going to affect you the least.

      • Roy Vernon says:

        Roy, U need to retire and then take it out.

      • Roy Vernon says:

        Roy, U need to retire and then take it out.

    2. Jim (another Jim) says:

      I plan on delivering the mail until:
      A. I die with a letter in my hand
      B. SHTF
      C. The internet takes us over completely
      D. UPS buys us out, Grin
      Any of the options are available.

    3. Eisenkreuz says:

      The Judge’s middle name is Steinberg.

      • troll killer says:

        eisen

        what the hell does that have to do with any thing ???
        are you joing the hate all the f*&%ing jews too like nina ??

        sheessh

        • troll killer says:

          opps meant

          Joining

          • Eisenkreuz says:

            yes, the jews are evil bastards

            • braveheart says:

              Eisentroll is at it again. who yanked on his chain?

            • D-Gore says:

              Actually, you’ve got the grammer a little wrong.
              Apply some logic to it and you come up with “the Evil Bastards are Jews!”
              The Evil Bastards are only a small subset of the set called jews.
              Most real jews follow the morality and work ethic laid out in the old testiment.
              That’s why they tend to be better off than the general population commonly known as Sheeple.

              • Them Guys says:

                Actually You got it wrong as jews, 99% acording to leading rabbis and various well respected jewish speakers etc all admit they go by Their “holy” books called the Talmud which is not the old testement, but rather is what Christ Condemned along with the Pharise Rabbi teachers of talmudic judaisim.

                I and several Other posters here have posted the Actual Quoted statements etc that Attest to this as Fact.

                Do a little search/research and you can find the same info very easy today. If you need assistance in finding the proofs of what I am saying here just ask me in a more recent article and I will look it all up…Again. And re-post it all. It is very Important especially with so many delusions today to seek factual Truth regarding these issues I think. All is Not what we all were told to believe when the issues revolve around the “Jewish” issue. Same goes for issues of israel and zionisim etc.

                • John W. says:

                  Really? Christ was born and died a Jew. He condemned the Torah? I guess you are full of shit. He condemned the Pharisees for money changing in the temple. Lots of Jews are poor. They don’t all have hook noses either.

                • Hanson says:

                  Them Guys,

                  Your theology is about as accurate as a broken watch.. You do not know what you are talking about and you should just be quiet before you embarrass yourself….

            • Gregoru8 says:

              Eisenstein; take it easy bubby.

      • Hanson says:

        You are obsessed with your hatred of Jews. You need help. Someday you will stand before Jesus who was a Jew and you will give an account of every idle word you uttered against people for just being a certain ethnicity. You Jew haters on here need to go somewhere else to post your nonsense…

    4. Rodster says:

      The economic collapse is picking up steam. Just wait till it starts to spread like a wildfire across this country. If it weren’t for helicopter Ben printing monopoly money in his basement it would have been gameover for the US back in 2008.

      All he did was prolong the pain and actually made the situation critical. He knows the end game. He wanted to pull back on the printing and Wall Street went ape shit. So the other day he said the QE won’t stop.

      So to sum things up….”we’re fucked”. ;)

      • lena says:

        gotta disagree with that.

        if the USA/FED/US govt wouldve take 2008 to stop putting everything on the USA credit card and made businesses and people accept responsibility for their actions then; the US could have been out of a lot of trouble by now. sure, it wouldve been a much worse recession and possible depression; but the US would be through the worst by now and seeing better days ahead; but we didnt; we followed japan and europe and now its worlwide depression 2 within 5 years.

      • tayronachan says:

        Well, what ever happens, I have to cut the grass tomorrow. Oh, fwiw the Zimbabwe stock market hit US$ 5,775,166,510 today! http://www.zimbabwe-stock-exchange.com/ So they must really be doing well…right?

    5. Hedge says:

      Ah, Deeeeeeetroit! The giant sphincter valve of the universe. Nuff’ said!

    6. Dave says:

      UGLY isn’t even close to whats coming down the tracks for this country as a society and nation. What floors me to no end is how many so called Americans are in complete and total denial about whats going on in the country. Have you ever tried to have a conversation with one of these mindless zombie drones? Its like trying to teach Einsteins theory of relativity to a fucking mole. Seriously.

    7. Jim in Va. says:

      Pay your bills off,stock up and hunker down…it isn’t going to be pretty.

      • Leslie Anne says:

        While paying off the bills is a noble thing to do, I’d rather see people stock up and prepare for the worst first. You can’t eat a paid off bill…and if things really implode, what will the creditor do, confiscate your tuna and dried beans? (Aka “ya can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip”)

        • Leslie Anne says:

          Like I said, paying off the bills is noble and the right thing to do…BUT I’d hate to think of kids starving because their parents put paying down debt above storing food and other items. I say prep first, then pay down debt.

          • wildman says:

            Leslie ann I planted a 20x 100 garden for under 500. so it can be done! the investment in jars cost a grand total of 20. at lawn sales, plus older people giving them away and walmart, lids cost 35. a good pressure canner cost about 200. a good rear tine rototiller can be had for a very reasonable amount. All of this allows me to feed myself for a whole year eating 3 squares plus dessert 365 for the grand total of 2 hrs daily labor so its back to buying ammo ( cause primers and powder are very hard to get right now) and canning strawberry jam because the rest is coming on very quickly. so on that note have a great day and god bless

        • F150MSGT says:

          Exactly Leslie Anne! I had the same conversation with my wife over how best to spend extra money. She wanted to pay down our two “debts” to put us in a “better place” when the SHTF but I explained to her the same thing you mentioned. You can’t eat a paid off bill! Also, I explained to her how this isn’t like the first Great Depression era banking system. Your local bank down the block isn’t going to send goons to come confiscate your goods you owe money on. The big faceless bank in the big city miles and miles away isn’t going to be able to do that. So it is definitely best to spend that extra money on prepping (while still paying your bills in the mean time to keep them off your back). I wish all people had individuals like us to guide them along. The more people that are better off will aid us all in being better off when the time comes (due to less fighting for resources).

        • Them Guys says:

          Yep you can Tune a Piano, but you cannot Tune a Fish.

    8. Jim in Va. says:

      California,New York, New Jersey,Illinois and the rest of New England will go first…the rest will follow.

    9. amused says:

      if your reading this your only hope is the moldboard, if you don’t know what that is may god have mercy on your soul
      less amused today

    10. braveheart says:

      I’m in Memphis which is already like Detroit in some ways. If anything happens here, i’ll have fun, fun til’ Daddy takes the T-bird away. Hell, i’d give up the T-Bird just to avoid what’s coming to this nation. I’ve lived in urban areas for my whole life and can survive in them in my sleep. Still prepping for the worst and losing hope for the best. braveheart

      • Paranoid says:

        Dear Brave: Have you been in Detroit in the last 20 years? I have; been in Mo town, several times, and Memphis in the last 2-3 years. Memphis is far better. Michigan Ave looks like a disaster zone. Used to be lovely, now the street lights are out or stolen, vacant lots, abandoned stores, all the remaining stores have their own lights and barbed wire. I keep a gun ready just driving down the road. Best wishes

        • mountain man 6-1 says:

          @ Paranoid…….Yea ,back when I watched TV ,that show ‘HardCore Pawn’ showed a lot of the ‘people’ off the streets of Detroit . It’s no wonder the city is in TROUBLE!! Perfect example of Sheeple without a CLUE!!…mm~

        • braveheart says:

          Paranoid, I went through Detroit on a cross-country trip with mrs. braveheart in 1980. It wasn’t so bad at that time, but was definitely going downhill even then. I almost took a job offer In Michigan at the time, but mrs. braveheart put her foot down and said no. She was born and raised in the tropics and didn’t handle cold weather too well. braveheart

    11. Chantilly Lady says:

      For years pension benefits have been based on a 6% plus rate of return. Its not going to happen. Most pension funds are underfunded and under estimate their future liabilities. There is no way they are going to be able to tax the citizenry to pay these benefits. I remember reading an article that Rhode Islands – smallest state in union’s pension fund was underfunded equivalent to ones year budget.

    12. Youdontneedtoknow says:

      Sold our half million dollar house, bought some land and now are building our house w cash. Our expenses went from stupid to manageable! Not only that, our once a month trips to our BOL,now BIL, is now a few hours everyday and we are getting sooooooooo much more done!

      It’s not for everyone and my husband still works three hours away….. But we will be so much better off wtshtf!

      We built a chicken coop and bought 12 more berry bushes this week. What did you do to prepare?

      • Hauled in 3 ton of hay. Helped deliver new baby goat. Processed the rhubarb, Finished setting up additional cistern.

      • gwynmarilyn says:

        Look up Depression Era cooking. There are several cook books out there.

      • wildman says:

        Lets see what i did ? fed my beef cattle , mowed 10 acres of hay (been way too wet to dry hay )cleaned barn, processed 5 cord of wood, picked 10 half pints of strawberries, made jam ,mowed lawn , shot the damn rooster of the hood of my pickup,mowed neighbors 10 acres of hay clean my firearms. i guess that about does it for the day. Just a normal day on the ranch havin fun

      • Shootit says:

        Put up 200 small square hay bales. Made a new burn barrel. Picked a pail of peas.

        • John W. says:

          Did you pick a peck of pickled peppers? Peppers are doing so well this year that between them the tomatoes, squash and nectarines I feel like Mickey Mouse in the Sorcerers Apprentice with the broomsticks.

      • sixpack says:

        Inventoried my storage items and filled in a few holes.

        Went through my armory and double-checked everything. It’s all in top working order.

        Inventoried my clothing and checked my boots for water-proofing.

        I lobbied the entire apartment complex and finally reached an agreement on a small patch to work over as a future garden site.

        Checked my PMs.

        Read a few chapters of scripture.

    13. Unreconstructed Southron says:

      Well somebody’s gotta pay for the politicians’ and bankers’ habits.

      • sixpack says:

        and it should be them who pay.

        • Them Guys says:

          If Fight Fire With fire is a good or necessary plan sometimes. Why not try to convince as many Millions of folks to agree to use fire vs fire in the Form of Banksters.

          Since most banksters, 90+% is likely a Low number, main beliefs systems are based on Talmudic Judaic principals etc…As far as I recall it, Their religious talmudic Methods on Loans and Mortgages etc…Is that Every 7th Year, all loans or cash owed etc are 100% Forgivin and Ended. A 100% Fresh Start for all such forgivin.

          Thats the same system they used for Slaves they Owned. Be it alien slaves Or their Own jewish folks they had to allow all slaves to revert Back to FREE status every 7th year.

          If Tens of Millions of american folks owing Any type Loan or mortgage etc all told them jewish banksters “We ALL decided to Use the Same Talmudic monetary systems as YOU guys do or believe in, so gimme a Paid in Full Reciept and fuck Off”!

          Not much they could then do besides Comply…And of course Whine and Snivel(nobody else can whine and snivil of victimness ike their tribe can!).

          Sounds like a swell Plan. Perhaps somebody Here this site, who has the time can look into it and write an actual plan Blueprint we all can make good use of eh.

          Main Key to it is need enough folks at same time frame to Overwhelm banksters as outlined.

    14. Kenneth says:

      As a community college instructor I am required by law to participate in CALSTRS. I don’t pay into Social Security, only the teacher’s retirement system. I tried to opt out a few years ago when it became evident that this gigantic pension fund will probably not be solvent in the long run (STRS, PERS and UCRS have about $500 billion in obligations). I was told that I cannot opt out. Pensions, in CA, are considered sacrosanct. But if the money isn’t there, it’s not there. I may end up having to work long after I would have normally retired. But that’s life.

      • F150MSGT says:

        None of it will be there Kenneth. Unfortunately we allow the government to steal our money and it doesn’t appear there is anything we can do about it. Frustrating as hell.

      • John W. says:

        I wonder if Mexico will honor the pension obligations when California becomes part of Mexico. I bet not. Not that much longer especially if the amnesty passes the House.

    15. MadMarkie says:

      Greetings all~

      Credit, if used judiciously, can be a great thing. Even the stupidest consumers amongst us quickly learns that you can’t keep running-up your credit card balances, make only minimum monthly payments, take every new credit card offer that you receive, take big cash advances, use one card to pay the minimum payment for another card …… and still maintain a stable financial position for very long.

      This is exactly what government, at all levels, has done here in the United States. They deferred their obligations until tomorrow. Their existing pension funds don’t even bring in a 1% interest rate these days. The cost of administering to these pension funds frequently costs more than the interest income.

      If the United States wasn’t printing the world’s reserve petrodollar currency and the United States wasn’t the strongest and most stable country in a world of already really hosed ‘looser’ countries …….. we would already be ‘tits-up’.

      All the ‘children’ are clamoring to know exactly when the music is going to stop. MadMarkie can’t give you an exact date on the calendar when the music will stop; but he can tell you when the music will stop. The music will stop on the day when there is no one besides the Fed. interested in buying US Govt. Obligations. By-by Ms. American Pie time baby.

      Get ready.

      • braveheart says:

        I’ve never used credit for any purpose. Even bought every car I ever had with cash. Been debt free my whole life. so I can buy more preps at one time than I would have been able to otherwise if I had any debt. Refuse to even have a credit card. That’s one type of stress I’ve always avoided in my life. braveheart

        • Wink says:

          Credit cards are the greatest. Where else can you borrow up to your limit for 30 day’s without interest? Been doing it for 30 years. Use the system, fools. Oh… Did I mention you pay what you owe on the 30th day? What the hell is wrong with most of you people?

          • AnneMarie says:

            “Use the system”? Well, if you enjoy them knowing where you shop, when you shop, what you buy, how much you spend, etc-etc-etc, that’s what “wrong” with those of us who use cash. We don’t want them knowing what we do, as much as is possible. Why do you think there are credit cards, points, and loyalty cards? It’s not for OUR benefit, it’s for THEIRS. I’ll keep sticking with cash, thanks. And time will tell which of us are the “fools”.

            • Them Guys says:

              But even with Cash use most Important items you buy still are tracked. Cars guns homes farms property etc are all registered or involve paper work of some form by govnt entities. And those items are the Most important you buy.

              Used rifles and some states also pistols if Used prior aka not brand new bought can avoid registration. But Cars and Homes are the basics and Most important and nowheres are those not registered or listed and know of by govnt snoops. If nothing of much value is in Your name, you can run credit card to max and simply stop paying it.

              If no income to garinshee(sp) is avail to get and no assets of value exist credit cards cant be collected on and all you get is bad credit for 6-7 yrs. That can work real swell for some folks if played right.

              And NO its Not the same as owing a Real Person/individual money promiced to pay back. Banks= Corps and corps are treated as “persons” but really are Not a person. So no need for bad conscience. Kinda like Screw them Screwers.

          • Hedge says:

            Nothing wrong with credit cards Wink, but you do leave an electronic trail of breadcrumbs for you favorite Stasi organization to enjoy. Cash is private, that’s why they hate it so much.

        • John W. says:

          You sound like someone who is not in touch with reality. Who wants to walk around with hundreds of dollars in their pocket? So you have been prepping all your life? I say your post is a fable. Ever think of the advantage having a card and paying it off every month? Interest free loan if you have self discipline. Ever try to get your money back on something you paid cash for compared to a credit card. That alone makes it worth having.

          • Anonymous says:

            Yeah,you are correct john. I’m not in touch with reality. Does that make you feel better?

          • AnneMarie says:

            Just keep using those credit cards, John, the big guys will be knocking down your door soon. We and our cash will be safe and sound for a while longer. Cash is self-discipline, not running up debt on credit cards like most people do.

    16. dfisherman says:

      Well,now’s the time to really put pedal to the metal and get going with the serious business of prepping cause all indicators are turning red and “OLD Ben” knows the real deal,but like the holding a tiger by the tail;cant hold on and best not let go cause it’ll devour you and when these other nations say to hell with the dollar then overnite the process of total chaos will erupt with no shelter for the sec.8 people,interest rates thru the roof,and gas will be like liquid goldand high as hell. But the FEMA camps will be wide open,ushering a new age of indentured servitude for many and lawlessness will abound,so my fellow preppers,like I’ve been saying since I come on this site:PREP QUICKLY,QUIETLY,PRAYERFULLY CAUSE THIS TIME WE WONT BE ABLE TO SHAKE OFF WHAT’S COMIN’ROUND THE MOUNTAIN. BE BLESSED EVERYONE AND ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FAITH IN GOD FOR HIS PEOPLE WILL NOT PERISH.

      fema camps will be wide open

    17. Sick of it all says:

      Cut welfare not pensions Looks like the working man loses another one. They’re afraid to cut it because if they do, they will finally get off their asses and Do something (riot,steal & loot). Time to get it on. B SAFE OUT THERE

      • Smokey says:

        Yep, they could reduce expenditures and put the money into the pension fund, like they should have been doing for decades, but they just bought more votes with the money instead.

        It’s sad that retirees who have earned a vested benefit are going to suffer, while the lazy get their checks regardless.

      • Wink says:

        You don’t seem to get it….. There AREN’T ANY JOBS…

        • Them Guys says:

          Whats the Grand Total fed cash spent in say, Last 10-12 yrs when you add up all spent for Other nations-Wars(many at great cost/more costly than all other issues)-$350+ Billion per yr for Illeagles imigrants-Usual fed/state govnt Waste-Phony grant cash for stupid endevors or ‘studies”(such as how many booze drinks per nite Jap hookers consume in bars in Brazil! True fed did it!).

          Just pentagon war cost budget is aprox One Trillion per yr. Plus Another Trillion per yr for “normal” pentagon costs etc.

          Add in Perifrial added cash spent for extra Gas air force one “Vactaions” every Other week. Times Two air force one jets(his and sheboons). I’d bet every single mortgage-school loans-credit cards-all other personal citizen debt could be Paid OFF totally with ONE maybe TWO yrs at most of totals govnt wastes on all combined above noted waste and costs.

          Time to tell nations fuck you, wars? No do Your own Pay your own wars too or do NOT start wars. Protect Your own borders so we can do Ours. Halt ALL forms imigration for at least 10 yrs till illeagles get Booted and those ok to remain are dealt with properly.

          Congress, switch to Personal Cars instead of massive huge Jets(pelosi as example!) and did I mention tell all other countries NO more cash or wars Period. Especially that Rabid state of israel warmongers. Let jewish banksters fund Their favorite “state” (israel).

          Begin to Use usa Oil nat gas coal and share profits(like alaska does) and every american Can have a Good pay job, plenty of prosperity(wealth) and be happy and content and alot safer when we no longer are so Hated by entire world for what our fed govnt has been doing lately.

          EXAMPLE: Bank Bail outs of $27-Trillion for usa and european banks in 2008. They Could have Paid OFF every Loan on every usa homes, the banks would Still have gotten the money as They hold the mortgage note anyways, and how better would That have been for Everyone not just for Banksters who already Own 95% worlds wealth.

          I bet wiser folks than I am here can give many more examples what could and Should been done.

    18. tired of ny bs says:

      Not all assistance is bad,worked 40 years then fell and broke back. What makes me mad is people on assistance buying drugs and getting new tattoos every month or so.

    19. Most corporate government workers are worse than welfare recipients. They not only suck the government tax teat, they make life hell for the producers by endless regulation and enforcing unconstitutional code and statute. Then, when their pensions are threatened, they look to make themselves whole by fucking the producers again through higher property tax. The sad part is, they actually believe they are providing a helpful service.

      THEY PRODUCE NOTHING OF VALUE NEEDED TO SURVIVE.

      junk away

    20. iliveinky says:

      I work for Toyota and the Unions would send their reps down and brag about their pensions being guaranteed by the government and Toyota’s isn’t and some people bought into that. They just couldn’t understand that Toyota’s 401k and pension is fully funded and doesn’t need a guarantee. Every time you get paid pension and 401k fund are sent to the bank and is no longer in Toyota’s possession. At any time you quit the company, you take can get the money out, you do not have to wait until you are 62, If you get a divorce your spouse can get their share immediately and not have to wait for you to retire yes you still have to pay government tax but that is not under their control. This is how all 401k’s and pensions should be set up.

      • nosuchuser says:

        Before you feel too froggy, you better check on the ‘vesting’ clause in your 401K …. word to the wise.

        But I, in general, do agree with you in the premise that a 401K plan requires the employer to PAY UP FRONT. For me that’s a good thing in that I ‘lay back’ the maximum amount tax ‘free’ amount allowed under law. But I must confess that I am concerned about my friends who lack (young, dumb, and don’t understand compounding interest) the foresight. I’m afraid that the idea of dropping the, almost entire, requirement for retirement planning on the ‘average’ American will turn out to bite us in the ass.

        After all the social security, and medicare, programs were instituted to address massive failures in the market place. And when they’re gone, we’ll see the same problems show up again. It’s not so different than people refusing the whupping cough vaccine and it makes a big come back….

        in short, me and mine will likely be fine. Your mileage may vary.

        • iliveinky says:

          Yes I should have add that you are 100% vested after 5 years. Now I have to think about taking their buyout plan. Basically one years pay plus insurance till 65 then $3000 dollars a year for supplemental. I am of the mind to retire while still healthy.I never could understand why some people want to work as long as possible just to get a bigger social security check. One good thing is that you can take the buyout then come back to work at a new pay scale.

    21. If you are a government employee, a labor union member, or even a retiree from the private sector, you had better be looking for ways to protect your current retirement portfolio or find yourself a new source of income, because that money you’ve been promised is going to be wiped out

      OK, so how about an article on that topic. Would be very much appreciated!

      • Paranoid says:

        Honestly, there is no point to such an article. It would be a true paradigm change. No data we now have can predict what will be. IF/when the gov stops paying SS; it will also stop: food stamps, SSI, ADC, Gov pensions, school lunches, and a hundred other programs. Bust for one is bust for all. World trade drops by 2/3, No one knows what will be it all depends on so many things. I Have read thousands of articles;many make claims’ all are false prophets. That’s wy weare here, wejust look for clues.

    22. Toka313 says:

      I’m sick of articles calling Detroit a harbinger of what is to come nationwide. It’s not.

      Detroit had a perfect storm of industry failure and financial meltdown in a way that no other city has seen. It’s a completely unique situation. Other manufacturing hubs were able to weather the storm much differently (Pittsburgh, Cleveland) but they did not have the animousity from the state and surrounding communities that Detroit has. Business interests are looking to pick Detroit clean of any possible asset because they can here, other cities that did not occur.

      Source: I f**king live here.

    23. tiny says:

      so then, question for those in the know! for those on fed pensions/u.s.postal service/civil service? what is going to happen to them. they be going from what they now getting, to $0? or what? anyone!

      • Paranoid says:

        Easy answer, pensions are just promises to pay. They print the money they pay them with. They will NEVER stop printing. Why would they, they are only Electronic money. All Gov payments are the same to them. One stops they all stop. They will just keep pretending inflation is 3% when it’s 20%; in five years their cost goes down to almost nothing. Your pension buys 10% of what it did and you are out of luck. Governments have done it many times. Look at it this way the Gov employs 3,000,000 but has 100 million on SS, Food Stamps, SSI etc, they have to kill all of them. They will.

    24. Charles Callen says:

      The Unions did NOT negotiate in “Bad Faith” – the City did in it’s negotiations.

    25. w snell says:

      Watch the movie: thrivemovement.com.

      It’s free if you do not wish to donate (~2.24 hr video.

    26. Anonymous says:

      I do not agree that the unions bargained in bad faith. What actually happened is that the unions and city officials colluded to stiff the taxpayers. The city gave in to the union demands while both the unions and city officials knew in the long run it would not work. It did not matter to either because they were both scratching each others backs at the expense of the producers.

      The officials got political contributions from the unions and in return the politicians gave the unions what they asked for. The politicians gave the slackers free stuff in return for their vote and financed the free stuff with the taxes imposed on the producers. The cycle continued until little by little they drove out the producers. Now they are stuck paying for the free stuff and no producers to stiff.

      City and union officials should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

     
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