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    HeadLie: Withdrawing Your Money From Banks Will Make The Recession Worse

    Mac Slavo
    December 6th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (150)
    Read by 1,460 people

    In case you haven’t yet heard, the Greeks are quietly continuing with a run on their banking system, a situation we’ve reported on previously, and one that British EU minister Nigel Farage warned of just a few short months ago. Savings and time deposits have dropped 30% since the start of the year and almost 10% was withdrawn in just September and October. It’s not panic in the streets – not yet, at least – but it’s getting close.

    Der Spiegel reports:

    Many Greeks are draining their savings accounts because they are out of work, face rising taxes or are afraid the country will be forced to leave the euro zone. By withdrawing money, they are forcing banks to scale back their lending – and are inadvertently making the recession even worse.

    This headline description for the Der Spiegel article suggests that it is the fault of the Greek people that the country’s recession – more appropriately, depression – continues to worsen.

    Is Der Spiegel, essentially the German versions of the New York Times, suggesting that amid all of the chaos with Greek government bonds which are without a doubt in free fall, and the threat of a destabilizing (and potentially destroyed) Euro, account holders should put their trust in the very system that brought about this crisis?

    While some may argue that the behavior of Greek account holders is irrational and contributes to the problem, we’d suggest it is the most rational move a person can make, especially if you recently heard Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s testimony before Congress in which he specifically noted the substantial risk to our economic and financial systems stemming from, among other things, a run on the banks in Europe.

    Depression style bank runs are not just some outlier that exist only as theoretical, low probability events. In fact, it is becoming apparent to many that this is exactly what is playing out now in Europe,  as governments are reportedly requesting Contingency Planning for Extreme Scenarios Including Rioting and Social Unrest.

    The very problems coming to a head in Europe in recent weeks and months are also embedded within our own financial system. After the crisis goes full-panic in Europe, we won’t be far behind. And you can be assured that our media, like Der Spiegel in Europe, will be touting the many benefits of keeping your money in your bank account – and using guilt-based motivation purporting that those who withdraw funds are hurting the economy. All the while there will be scheming behind closed doors to restrict capital flows and likely bank holidays during which we may very well see devaluations of the US dollar. One day you may wake up and learn that the $1,000 you had in the bank is now only worth $100 in purchasing power.

    Hard to believe that it can happen in America? Yes. Impossible? Elliot Wave Theorist weighs in:

    The problem was serious in 2002 and enormous in 2006. Now it has become acute, because many loans are becoming fossilized, as the market for mortgage investing has dried up while foreclosures on the ‘collateral’ have been slowed by court actions and politics.

    The specter of a banking panic has become far darker since the collateral for bank deposits — land and buildings — has fallen globally in value at the steepest rate since the Great Depression. One day this shortfall in collateral value will impress itself on people’s minds, and there will be an unprecedented run on banks around the globe…. Yes, I know about the FDIC, but I don’t believe it will be able to fulfill its promises when most banks go bust.

    If you want to leave all of your money entrusted with the very same people who have stolen billions in tax payers’ dollars to pay off their fraudulent too-big-to-prosecute schemes, be our guest. If you believe that the FDIC will have enough funds to bail out individual Americans, then we suggest you go ahead and have another glass of Kool Aid.

    But, be aware that unless you act before the rest of the crowd, you may very well end up at your bank one morning to a sight similar to the following.

    Anxious customers wait to get their funds all over IndyMac banks in California after regulators took control in July of 2008:

    Thousands all over the UK headed straight for Northern Rock Bank once they learned it was no longer solvent in 2007:

    Crowd at New York’s American Union Bank during a bank run early in the Great Depression (June 1931)

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 1,460 people
    Date: December 6th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    150 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. It will be a sad day in America when there is a run on the banks. The difference is it will be an electronic run. I predict over a holiday weekend – we’re past Thanksgiving so batter up….Christmas.

      I wonder if they will reverse the charges in a “crisis.” Meaning if it appears “SHTF” and I have $200 left in my checking and spend it at APMEX.com will they reverse it before APMEX can ship?

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      • PFC says:

        I am pulling my money out of the banks and investing in ammo and survival supplies, food, water and purification methods, along with lock picks and such. I’ve heard that after Christmas they will call a bank holiday and steal all the money then the quickening will begin, I’ve also heard that there will be a 2 week period where we will see the collapse have a total on set.

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        • Really? Is that what you “heard”? Really?

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 5

        • Hammerun says:

          Hell, save the banks. They aren’t lending anyway. Leave your money in there and it will disappear one way or the other. Either inflation or one day you show up and you will be informed, YOU AINT GOT NONE! You think that can’t happen? If you can find anybody that was alive in 1929 and knew what was happening when the crash occurred. Talk to them and ask them what can happen. CYA now!

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      • eric says:

        i wonder that as well, i think maybe you might want to find someone locally or a coin place lined up. Not really a coin shop but someone who you know who may want cash asap if this happens. I just want to know if the banks shut down will they still have records of payments on mortage or how will that work. nobody seems to have a good answer on that. but my guess would be if you own a house you could say you sent the payment in the mail or dont pay at all until they can get the chaos under control months later or never. who knows. just get some powder propel or kool aid so that if you have to trap water you have something tasty besides plain water for many months.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • GSM1(SW) says:

        I think initially there will be a lot of stress, but after we all settle into the grind, we will realize a much greater sense of freedom and self pride. I think I have had enough of what we have now and am ready for REAL change.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • TexasLawman says:

        Oh we will not run out of money. They will just ‘print’ more. And then when inflation goes hyper long enough to effectively devalue the federal borrowings to nothing, then they will have a bank ‘holiday’ a period of time when the banks are closed and you can get say 150.00 a day from the ATMs. At the end of the ‘holiday’ the dollar will be gone, replaced by a brand new world fiat currency (not backed by silver or gold). We will no longer control our own currency.and individual savers not invested in gold, silver, commodities, and consumables, and things with actual utility will be essentially wiped out.uu

        And Mac you said ‘…Der Spiegel, essentially the German versions of the New York Times,…..’. Hey man this is a terrible thing to say about Der Spiegel. The NYT has become a political rag, much like MSNBC, totally good for nothing except to support left wing causes, progressive ideas, hatred of our constitutional protections, and an unabated Obama supporter. The Spiegel in its worst days during Hitler was not so false and phony as the NYT.

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    2. Fed Up says:

      If I lived in Greece, I’d have taken all of my money out of the bank as soon as I smelled the trouble. As it stands, I only keep enough money in the local bank to pay bills, everything else is done in CASH!!

      Speaking of cash, here is a link to my weekly effort to make others (and myself) smile and know there is still humanity left in the world.

      http://finances.msn.com/saving-money-ideas/a533bb13-2e0a-4fa9-9d56-9db6db2aee5b

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

      • I have friends that travel back and forth from Greece. They are telling me that they cannot withdraw more than 600 Euros per day. A family member of theirs has a good size business there and has millions in the banks. He’s furious that he cannot access his fake paper, er, I mean currency. Some people you just cannot get through to. You can lead a horse to water,…you know the rest.

        We all know this will be a reality here soon, just a matter of when. Probably a Monday or Tuesday for the blanket media coverage. Get everyone all riled up all week so TPTB can slam down the state of emergency hammer. I’m always weary of Mondays and Tuesdays.

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        • I would think he could wire the money to someone for payment. Such as apmex. Not that hard to pay them big for GOLD these days. 500 ounces is almost a million….

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        • durango kidd says:

          JR: The Euro Monetary Union was flawed from its conception. The problems with the Euro are NOT transferable to the dollar.

          What the Europeans are trying to do now is change their system into a system like OURS.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    3. Farm cat says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

      Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 19

    4. highspeedloafer says:

      At least I don’t have to worry about a bank run. I took all of my money out of the bank in August. They are a bunch of thieves and will probably never earn my trust back. The groceries and supplies I have been buying will pay better dividends in the long run. Now, I’ve got to get someone to dig me a well without the town people finding out about it. I am going with a hand pump and totally skipping the electric pump for now. I own some silver, but trust more in brass and lead.

      My advice is get some cash out now, before you cant. You aren’t getting any interest anyway.

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    5. blackriflewarrior says:

      Max Keiser has an interesting article about this and he warns that whatever the Greek people have that is not in PMs will be gone. Same thing will happen here.

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      • durango kidd says:

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

        Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 27

        • ScoutMotto says:

          While I agree with that general statement, the banking and monetary systems of the two countries are very much alike, and run the same risks.

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          • durango kidd says:

            ScottMotto: My point EXACTLY! They are NOT “very much alike”; only similar with respect to being a medium of exchange and a store of value; they do NOT run the same risks.

            If they did, investors the world over would be rushing to the Euro. The EU monetary system is flawed and has been since its conception. It does not have the same capabilities as the US monetary system.

            If it did the European banking crisis would be over already and the German taxpayers would be footing the bill.

            They aren’t. It doesn’t.

            Additionally, as POP has accurately pointed out, the USD is the world’s currency. That is NOT going to change anytime soon.

            That fact alone makes a HUGE difference!

            Many people here do not even understand their own US monetary system, which is why they are always in panic mode and cannot even explain why WE didn’t have hyperinflation after Uncle Ben printed all $16 TRILLION.

            US Debt to GDP is about 100%. Britain is 200%. European nations with the exception of Germany are 300% or more.

            Even fiat money has a pecking order.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

        • PO'd Patriot says:

          Damn DK, guess I’ll follow suit when I say I agree with you. People forget we are the world’s currency and the printing will continue whether we like it or not. Here we go with the submit button! EEEEEAAAAAHHHH!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

        • Gunsmith says:

          ~DK~

          —CORRECT!!!—

          For all practical purposes, Greece doesn’t have a ‘private sector’ to its economy. Damn near everything is govt owned / operated. Call it socialism, writ large……

          …here in the US, we @ least possess a functioning private sector…for now!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • MadMarkie says:

        We only keep enough in the bank in order to keep the account open and avoid any fees. Sufficient funds are also deposited each month to pay our monthly bolls.

        Mamma keeps 2K – 3K in cash on hand in her ‘tittie-bank’ to cover us in case of a ‘Bank-Holiday’ where local merchants are still accepting cash.

        Everything else that comes into our little family goes into ‘hard’ assets.

        Of course, we will get ‘diddeled’ to a certain manageable/acceptable limit that we set for ourselves. We hope to keep the ‘diddeling’ that we take to a minimum by doing this.

        God Bless & good luck to all.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    6. eric says:

      you see that is what is happening to us, everyone in the united states is in the water trying to hold onto the titanic which is going down, and obama is throwing out more ropes and GOP is trying to cut the ropes to save what we got. that simple.

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    7. Anonymous says:

      What kind of Kool Aid? Am I third?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    8. Joe says:

      I Took all my money out in 2008. They dont pay me any interest, charge me for everything I do and its almost impossibled to get a loan without 100% colateral
      so whats the point?

      None.

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    9. NCRebel says:

      Anyone leaving a vast sum of their fiat in the banks and the hands of brokers, 401ks, and any other investments are walking the plank. We leave just enough to pay our regually incurred bills. Vesting in PMs, food, ammo and alternative living seems to be all we can do at this point.

      Are we making things worse by doing this? The PTB should have thought this out before pillaging the American people. But in all honesty, I truely believe this is what they want.

      When the sheeple wake up from being cork-screwed to the system, I hope we have the perfect balance of food, ammo, and REAL MONEY!

      I pray daily for all on this blog, for you are the few and wise.

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    10. Slim says:

      Wait for it……. 5,4,3,2,

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    11. Xiccarph says:

      Well, being a member of the “middle class”…whatever THAT means these days…I have pretty much nothing in any bank due to check-to-check living. No matter how bad a bank collapse occurs, X * 0 = 0 is very, very simple math, haha. Still try to squirrel away a few things though…or NOT! ;-)

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    12. durango kidd says:

      No bank runs. Having said that, cash out your 401k’s if you haven’t alraedy. Inflation will eat them alive.

      Buy gold. It will spike.

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      • I would only partially agree. Since Uncle Collect All would have a field day with your cashing out the 401k I’d just like to recommend converting it to a self directed IRA and then using that to buy land, silver, gold. That way you don’t give Uncle Collect All 60% of your retirement funds to save 40%.

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        • durango kidd says:

          I’ll back that post Jim. Somebody had a REAL GOOD post a couple of days back where he transferred that 401k into some form of self directed, where he could access his cash in a week.

          Look for it people if you haven’t liquidated yours yet. No collapse. No bank runs. But double digit inflation year after year will eat into your principal if you leave it with the GB’s.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

          • USMC-WA says:

            I had about $5k in my Thrift Saving acct (the investment 401k sorta thing the military and civilian federal employees can put money into). I put in a “hardship request” to get all of it out back in the summmer when the stock market was doing ok. I got a check for all of it within a week and they didn’t take any money out for taxes, but there is a 10% fine for taking out the money early. Since I don’t file taxes anymore and owe countless thousands to creditors I really don’t care since I cashed all the money out and bought tangible goods.

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          • NSBF says:

            I checked with my accountant on this “rapid maturing” IRA. I have known and used her for 25+ years. She said there is no such thing…period. She felt like this title was a bank marketing scheme. An IRA is an umbrella with lots of different products under it. It is possible the bank wasn’t charging their own “early withdraw” fee but they have to charge the 10% for IRS. So if you withdraw, you will pay 10% fee, and the taxes on whatever your personal tax rate becomes with the additional income for that year (lets say 30%). They will charge the 10% fee immediately and then you will pay taxes when you file. I believe self-directed is different…I think you can invest in physical…like land. But according to her, there is no getting the cash w/o paying the price…the IRS will get the money. With that…we are still pondering the idea of taking some this year…and some in Jan. Praying for wisdom on this one decision. Take care all!

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        • old southern man says:

          Is that really safe from Uncle’s hands though? Better to have 40% than none.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • The Old Coach says:

        Not only will inflation eat your 401k, but there is a real possibility that the Feds will confiscate them and give you a paper promise of an “annuity” in return. Happened just like that in Argentina.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    13. Frosty21 says:

      Have some people here in Fla.Tarpon spring’s Area.Very big Greek area.There friend over there are taking the money out and getting prep item big time.All so he say’s the underground movements are really taking form over there now.

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    14. txinjun says:

      I can hear the bankers now.Corporate profits are down–we need a bailout from the morons that gave it to us last and then we reported highest profits ever 3 months later. Wish in one hand Mr.Banker.

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    15. Tom says:

      Where is Mushroom?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    16. RandomTangent1957 says:

      @DK : I agree. Pulled my $ out over the summer & invested in
      Preps & metals. Still have work to do , hope we can kick the can
      For a couple more months! Plus my year end Commission settlement
      will allow me to make some major purchases…….
      I need everyone to drink some more kool-aid & go back to watching
      American Idol . “There is nothing going on here………Move Along”
      Montgomery County Texas

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    17. old soldier says:

      The thing that concerns me is that all this may occur right after Christmas. That’s the way I see it. Per a previous article, the only reason people are spending for Christmas is using money from retirement funds and savings accounts. When that runs out…and it will… soon ….then..a mirror of Greek account holders at present. I once had to do a a project on the Depression for a college course and co ordinate the projects of four other students on the same topic.The result was a very comprehensive study of the Crash of 1929 and the the events that followed in the 1930′s. the facts were so scary I never forgot them and that was over forty years ago. Reading the above article brings flashbacks of a very bad time in U.S. history. The difference is between then and now is people cared about each other and were neighborly. That lack now will magnify many times how bad bank runs today would be. When banks close their doors, then credit cards could be worthless. Imagine how people will react when they can’t charge anything? Finally, something that just occurred to me. The movie “It’s A Wonderful Life” probably one of the most famous Christmas shows centers around a bank run. A coincidence?Guess we’ll find out after Christmas.

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    18. Daisy says:

      Well, I don’t feel as bad about not HAVING any money now! :D

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      • DPS says:

        Daisy,
        on a better note ican say that looking through your old change is a waste of time. I have been goin through a 5 gal water bottle of change for the last 2 days ( damn winter storm). here is the tally $175.00 in dimes= 4 dimes pre 1964.
        $790.00 in quarters = 0 inpre 1964 coins and if I could cash in pennys for copper I would have really scored.
        Just be thankful you have the means to take care of your daughters….

        God Bless,
        DPS

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        • DPS says:

          Yes I’m reply to myself,

          I think instead working on the house and surfing the web sites tomorrow I will go shoot some more deer to feed the homeless folks, its Christmas folks instead of pi–ing and mouning about have to sort change looking for silver, I think I’ll just try and make a differance.
          I for one don’t count the the seconds that I breath, I count the seconds that take my breath away..

          DPS

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      • Hey, Daisy—I haven’t had cable since NOV, 2008—and Netflix in this house was stopped a couple years ago.
        So, dh and I decided if we’re going down, let’s spend 16 a month on Netflix…we deserve it!!!
        Oh, we’re prepped for a long time.

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      • Daisy says:

        I don’t want to sound like a whiner. :) We are not without resources. I still am employed, even though I’m making less. We have a place to live and a car, and a lot of the time that has been freed up can be used to pursue frugal things that I didn’t have time for before. I’m actually welcoming the opportunity to slow down and spend more time with my girls before they grow up. Not many single moms get to be home when their kids get back from school every day! Really, this is a blessing!

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        • Silver Bean says:

          Daisy,
          Having raised daughters who are now out on their own I can say without any reservation whatsoever that the time you are investing in your daughters will reap more rewards and memories than any stupid bank account, or prepping.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • Daisy says:

            Thank you, SB! It’s especially important because their father died last spring. We’d been divorced for years but he was very present in their lives. They need something extra, and I’m blessed to be able to provide it.

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          • 41MagMan says:

            Great point, SB. When we leave this troubled Earth, we cannot take any gold, silver, art, real estate, stocks, bonds, furs, jewels, etc. What we CAN take will be the love of family and friends and the memories of the good times we all shared together. THAT is the true wealth of our lives. Peace, all.

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      • anonymous says:

        Do you mean fiat bills, cash, FRN’s, bread, mue-la?

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    19. What we see here is a crooked system of criminal gangs that found a way, for a while, to steal from people by doing nothing for them in the end. The banking systems across the globe are drying up and dying. Don’t be afraid. Its just a phase. Eventually we’ll have real banks again. I’m thinking of starting my own. Private. I will contract with my customers. Hold their money and keep it safe. Pay them interest while I use it. I will take silver or gold or FRNs. I wonder if the giverment will let me do this? Certainly if I ask the government, they would say no. However, they can’t regulate too much of what happens on private land. My constitutional right to contract cannot be usurped, so, I could manage to get it done.

      Once I learned how fractional reserve banking worked, I decided that I would never aid and abet a criminal gang rob the general populace. When you put money in a bank account, in a savings account, that is exactly what you do. I do have a checking account. We take it down to zero every two weeks. I use them, I don’t let them use me.

      Fractional Reserve Banking: How the elite steal from you without you even knowing it.

      I’m convinced that nothing will change in this world until we rid ourselves of the blight known as central banks. We all gripe about politics but the truth is that politics is not the root of the problem. Certainly, it is a symptom of crooked financial schemes thought up by the central banks and others.

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      • VRF says:

        NR..any insight to Credit Unions and if they are a safer, better bet?
        or will they act just like banks in the end?

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      • Gods Creation says:

        Ranger, of course you are right.

        But to be even more specific, it is the control of the creation of what we use for money.

        If the banks control it, they control the gov corp. If the people control it, they control the gov corp. In other words, the govcorp will be controlled by the SOURCE of its money.

        The solution is too simple for most to accept.

        One law that says ONLY the US Treasury may issue currency, and that it must be debt and interest free. Of course, since that law is already on the books in the form of the Constitution, it merely needs to be enforced.

        Who is responsible for the enforcement of the Constitution? Is it the gov corp? NO. It is the People who are the source of the authority delegated therein.

        Fact is, if the people took everything back right now and did not take away the “authority” of the banks to create money, they would write a check and buy it all back tomorrow.

        The banksters are trembling in fear. They know the secret is getting out to the masses. The only thing they can do now is promote fear and show force against those who have discovered the secret and refuse to play anymore.

        Governments have no power, and neither do banks. Only the People have the power, but most are too ignorant to realize it.

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    20. realist 101 says:

      On a positive note.. it was sunny in so fla today.. low 80s mid day..

      now.. its a election year in 2012.. nothing will probably happen people.. but all bets are off for 2013-14..

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    21. craig says:

      I find it ironic. According to Keyesian philosphy there shouldn’t be ANY savings of any kind. You have to spend, spend, spend. So what are they worried about when people have to take their money out and spend it to survive??

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    22. EAGLEDOVE says:

      Need some advice:

      I still owe approx. $30,000 on my house with one of the smaller but reputable banks in Ohio.., should I go ahead an pay off my house or least most of it so the money is out of my account and into my house OR.. keep my money for the things I need if the SHTF.

      I know there could be many variables to this, but your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

      Thank you in advance.

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      • I think I would take the pay off cash and cost average into silver coins (they may go down again before way up) and retain enough cash to make payments at least a year before the silver soars to pay off the house many fold.

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        • Paranoid says:

          A word you should know is sequestration. If you owe money to a bank they can under some conditions freeze it to pay themselves. So unless you can pay off and have money left, you might not wish to have your money in the same bank as your loan. I am not a financial adviser, but for what it’s worth, It is now taking almost two years to foreclose on a house, In the event things go really bad if you cannot pay off I’d rather have supplies. On the other hand if you have the extra cash 2-3 months of your mortgage payment in your bank is a good idea. If things freeze up no way they can start foreclosure for that time, if you tell them to deduct it. ( No court is going to start foreclosure and keep your money at the same time)

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      • durango kidd says:

        ED: You may make your payment to your local bank, but that mortgage was sold and securitized long ago.

        Only pay off your house when you can actually pay it off. Low balances are not good if your cash flow and income changes.

        Too many variables and not enough info to render an opinion for YOU. Gold will spike next year; probably double or more (briefly) after Israel hits Iran.

        Buy gold. Sell your basis then at the PEAK. Bury the the balance in the backyard.

        Once you have physical possession of the remainder you can buy the preps you need, by selling the gold locally to individual buyers.

        Cash is King. A “collapse” would signal deflation (initially). You could ride it out with the cash.

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        • Richard in Denver says:

          “Cash is king” was a popular saying during the Great Depression and while it was backed by gold. Now cash is fiat money (thank you, Tricky Dick Nixon, 1971) and can become worthless if we have a “full” bank failure which would also adversely affect the Federal Reserve.

          Cash to America is like a stock to a publically traded company. The company goes broke (Remember WorldCom?) and issues new stock (leaving stockholders holding toilet paper). The same thing can happen to America – America goes broke and issues a new currency (Remember the collapse of the USSR?).

          Regarding a “collapse” – I believe we will see an inflationary affect on essentials and a deflationary affect on non-essentials. So, we will see a combination of both (inflation and deflation) but most people will struggle to just pay for essentials and will give little or no regard to non-essentials.

          Just my two cents worth.

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      • idaho says:

        if it is paid off they cant take it from you or get mad when you defend

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        • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

          No, they will just say you are a terrorist or a sympathizer and then do whatever they feel like doing with what you thought was your property. You only truly own what you can defend.

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          • 41MagMan says:

            Sure thing, Moon Mistress. On top of that, if it can be taxed, you don’t own it. Anyone disagreeing with that statement should try not paying that tax to see just what happens. GRAB!

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        • Tina says:

          You still have property taxes to pay…you never really “own” it

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        • durango kidd says:

          My point exactly, but if you cannot pay it off your total home investment is exposed for a small loan. Pay it all off or not at all.

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      • I bought a new home last year this time. My initial mtg was 105k, and when the sell of my business was complete in march I paid it Dow to 30k. I could have paid it off but preferred to keep some capital for this year. I expanded both silver and gold holdings and sit on some actual cash too. Been buying cheap ammo, and a few firearms too. I am confident the things I’ve added to my holdings would raise 30 k easy. If we hit deflation then I have 2 years of payments but owe five…..guess I’ll have to work it off.

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        • Richard in Denver says:

          Jim, sounds like you are doing the right thing. I did the same thing – sold all my stocks (in 2008), paid off all debt, purchased food stores, lots of water, guns, ammo, gold and silver rounds, holding a cash pool at home, and the rest of my assets is in the form of cash in various banks; although holding cash in the banks make me nervous but I haven’t figured out what to do with it – I mean, you can only buy so much food, water, guns, ammo, gold, and silver.

          I though about purchasing some land but feel that the “soon to come” double-digit inflation may raise the value of the land and the greedy and ever-spending taxing authorities will keep raising my property taxes until I can’t pay them and then they will take my land.

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          • anonymous says:

            “Nobody” has never told me that I can only buy only so much of God’s metal back then or than to lease. I haven’t met him yet.

            FDIC or NGC. “I appreciate that”. “They said I couldn’t do that”.

            This is starting to get interesting! Question for tiny tim while on vacation in Germany. What does the IMF want for bailing things out? Are we talking bailing buckets or what? I need some advice from Mac or Okie. Will gold/silver ever have to be bailed out?

            My girl likes Minute Maid lemonade made with real lemons but those little lemmings (lil keeblers) scare me. Made from the best stuff on Earth…

            Hey look, mister. We serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don’t need any characters around to give the joint “atmosphere”. Is that clear, or do I have to slip you my left for a convincer? I’m making wings.

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          • anonymous says:

            ding!

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          • 41MagMan says:

            “I mean, you can only buy so much food, water, guns, ammo, gold, and silver.”

            Huh? Now there’s a novel idea. Always thought that there was NEVER too much of a good thing! ;-)

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        • durango kidd says:

          Pay your home off people or leverage it as much as possible. Anything in between increases your risk if your your circumstances change.

          The interest on mortgages is still tax deductible. In a deflationary crash your home will drop in value, but initially, there will be an overall shortage of cash. making your cash more valuable.

          Keep it under the mattress or in #10 cans buried next to your silver and gold.

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          • Richard in Denver says:

            Paying off your home may not be the best thing to do. For example, if we start having double-digit inflation, you are better off with your home loan which you will be paying down with lesser valued dollars. Having said that, it is more complex than that because it also depends on what you do with the money you intended to use for paying off your loan. Keeping that money in the bank will not be a good idea because the purchasing power your money will go down. So, what’s important is what you do with your money if you don’t use it to pay off your loan. Obviously, you want to “invest” it in “hard” assets (land, gold, silver, food, etc.) rather than keeping it in “soft” assets (currency, treasuries, bonds, stocks, etc.).

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      • ScoutMotto says:

        Last year I paid off my mortgage and saved a ton in interest. I’m sure the bank did not like that, but too bad. I wanted out from under their threat and control. When I made the last payment, I saved ever statement, email and piece of paper that said I owed nothing more to the bank. It is a good feeling knowing that they are no longer connected to my life. If you can do it, pay the place off and be done with it. Don’t give the bank any more free money.

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      • old southern man says:

        Just some things to ponder, for I too am considering this. Is your house rural? if not you may not be able to stay post SHTF if you can not defend it.

        i

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    23. PatriotOne says:

      Possession is 9/10th. of the law. If it’s not in your possession you have nothing. The fact that right now you can barter services from doctors at 40% off by paying in silver should scare the he’ll out of you.

      Did the government bail you out or the banks? Who do you think is going to get paid first if there is a financial collapse? If you think it’s you, I have a bridge for sale.

      Let’s face it folks if we collapse your Savings, IRA’s, Pensions, Annuity, Social Security and 401K are gone. But hey here is the good news about a collapse, your mortgage, car loan, credit card and any other debt is gone too. While collapse will be ugly, the world gets a mulligan and all you have to do is survive it to win.

      Good luck folks. Stack it deep!

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      • TnAndy says:

        Doctors will give 40% off for silver ?

        Heck, they’ll give that or more if you simply pay in ANY form on the day of service.

        My insurance company typically pays about 50% of what a doctor bills as settlement in full. I had open heart surgery this past summer, and the hospital bill came to 114K. The hospital took 37K from the insurance company as payment in full.

        I asked “who pays retail ?”

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        • Anonymous says:

          I’m glad you are well TnAndy!

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        • Patriot One says:

          I’m talking 40% off a cash self pay rate. Not off insurance billing rates. It works very well with Dentist, Vets., and Plastic Surgeons.

          The two transactions I’ve done with the dentist and the vet. went like this.

          Dentist charges $1248.00 for a crown. I paid 20 oz. of silver my net cost $760.00 and he’s going to do the other crown for the same. Total Savings $976.00

          At the Vet my dog needs surgery and the estimate was $1947. I offered the Vet 30 oz. of silver and he took it as full and final payment. My net cost $1140.00. Total Savings $807.00

          I’ll tell you about the Plastic Surgeon later. My wife’s going for about a $800 tune up on the face, you know Botox and filler. I gave her 10 oz. to try to barter. Net cost $380.00 if it works.

          I’m not talking 40% off an inflated price, I talking 40% off what I would have had to take out of my pocket if I paid cash or credit card. This only works when you are dealing with the Doctor directly or the business owner.

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      • old southern man says:

        What law? So far the government and their bureaucracies has shown no regard for the law!

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      • 41MagMan says:

        “The fact that right now you can barter services from doctors at 40% off by paying in silver should scare the hell out of you.”

        Actually, that doesn’t bother me a bit. I HAVE silver specifically for such uses. What REALLY scares the s*** out of me is having some gov geek telling me what medicine and what medical procedures I can have… or, maybe, how much food I can have around the place… or, whether or not I can even own a gun to protect my family, self, and property.

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    24. Mal Reynolds says:

      Golly gee willikers, fellas! George Bailey is MY banker. Merry Christmas Mr. Potter!!

      :)
      Mal

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    25. fI emptied my saviings and cd acount last year and invested in silver.

      But OUR account is still too big for me to feel comfortable with. But hubby doesn’t feel safe putting it into precious metals.

      So I say OK, and will not say a word when it all comes falling down around his ears.

      I do have enough money put away for a few months. Thank God the house, cars and cards are all paid off.

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      • Plane Guy says:

        Your “hubby” is probably right. These evil maniacs want total financial contol, so they will probably outlaw transactions in metals, or tax them to the point that you’re losing purchasing power (compared to cash) simply by using metals. They are not in TOTAL control, but they ARE in control of the financial systems that matter to our way of life.

        In other words, don’t bet the farm on precious metals. My opinion is to keep it %50 or below your total assets.

        As to the earlier post about paying off the house, just remember, the private Federal Reserve will basically own most mortgages after the SHTF (this is all part of the master plan). So, you will be a slave to their demands if you want to keep your house (microchip, anyone?).

        In as much as I admire an intelligent thief that gets away without getting caught, I can’t help but admire the cunning and long-term planning that these bastards have.

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        • Richard in Denver says:

          Plane Guy – you are right. Although someone can even have a “fully-paid for” house isn’t foolproof for the landowner. Greece is an example of this. The “powers to be” in Greece have given the EU and IMF all lands in Greece as collateral for new loans and extending existing loans, including the land, buildings, and houses belonging to the Greek people. The same thing can happen here. Anyone who doesn’t believe it can’t happen here is fooling themselves. Under a national emergency and with executive powers, our President can do anything he feels is in the “best interests of the general public.”

          Just my humble two-cents worth.

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          • BD Cali says:

            From a speech in Congress in The Bankruptcy of the United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993, Vol. 33, page H-1303, Speaker Representative James Trafficant Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House states:
            “…It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 – Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.
            The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: “The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States…
            Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages until the Federal Reserve Act (1913) “Hypothecated” all property within the Federal United States to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, in which the Trustees (stockholders) held legal title. The U.S. Citizen (tenant, franchisee) was registered as a “beneficiary” of the trust via his/her birth certificate. In 1933, the Federal United States hypothecated all of the present and future properties, assets, and labor of their “subjects,” the 14th Amendment U.S. Citizen to the Federal Reserve System. In return, the Federal Reserve System agreed to extend the federal United States Corporation all of the credit “money substitute” it needed.
            Like any debtor, the Federal United States government had to assign collateral and security to their creditors as a condition of the loan. Since the Federal United States didn’t have any assets, they assigned the private property of their “economic slaves,” the U.S. Citizens, as collateral against the federal debt. They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national parks, forests, birth certificates, and nonprofit organizations as collateral against the federal debt. All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.
            Unwittingly, America has returned to its pre-American Revolution feudal roots whereby all land is held by a sovereign and the common people had no rights to hold allodial title to property. Once again, We the People are the tenants and sharecroppers renting our own property from a Sovereign in the guise of the Federal Reserve Bank. We the People have exchanged one master for another.”
            • In 1944, Washington D.C. was deeded to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) by the Breton Woods Agreement. The IMF is made up of wealthy people that own most of the banking industries of the world. It is an organized group of bankers that have taken control of most governments of the world so the bankers run the world. Congress, the IRS, and the President work for the IMF. The IRS is not a U.S. government agency. It is an agency of the IMF. (Diversified Metal Products v. IRS et al. CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate Report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391.)

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        • 41MagMan says:

          “In as much as I admire an intelligent thief that gets away without getting caught, I can’t help but admire the cunning and long-term planning that these bastards have.”

          Yeah, same here. Do you suppose that will get them supervisory positions in Hell? Must be a lot of lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats, and bankers down there. Only way we will ever know for sure is by their absence from Heaven when we get up there. :-)

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    26. Sandy says:

      Co-worker of my husband was bragging about how he and his wife were buying tons of Christmas presents for each other
      using money that he borrowed against his Tax Returns which he hasn’t even filed for yet. This person barely pays any taxes in because he’s low income. Owns nothing. But he’ll have the latest greatest technology that money can buy.

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      • idaho says:

        yes dear,, but he will be the first to knock on your door for food,,,plz,,,dont be jealous, greed will kill you quick,,living in the fast lane still equates to hitting a freightliner when he is going 60 MPH and you are doing 210MPH in a lambo…………DONT FOLLOW….LEAD,, and yes i mean head of the pack

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        • Sandy says:

          Oh no, Idaho, you missed the point. I am NOT jealous, I am saddened by society and where their priorities are. I can completely understand people having touch phones with internet IF their jobs require it. If you’re shoveling mud all day I don’t see paying that monthly bill AND receiving financial aid to buy your food. I’m not jealous, I’m pissed because everyone puts that fun stuff first in their lives AND they’re teaching this mentality to their kids and then MY kids bug me for this crap because everyone has one (i-pod, i-pad, touch this or that). Unfortunately for them, all purchases this year were made with the intention of being able to use it without electricity. My brain is just stuck there.

          I guess where I was going with my original comment is
          most of the people these days don’t have money in the banks to pull out because they spend it as fast as they can earn it on stuff that will be obsolete in 2 years.

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    27. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      I pulled some money out of the bank today & bought more silver. The price of silver and the price its selling for are still disconnected. Seems like a little market manipulation is going on.

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    28. butch says:

      @ mona, good move. You need enough resources to pay your property taxes. Your man will thank you in the future. De….Nile is not just a river in Africa. And I know it is difficult to prepare but we need to do as much as we all can to help those that are around us. Cherrio,,,Butch

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      • 41MagMan says:

        Exactly right, Butch. I’m sure that a lot of us on here have family members who snicker at those of us who prepare for SHTF. Fortunately for them, we are doing a lot of this for them too. When SHTF really does happen, that snickering will very quickly turn to pleas for help. Thanks to us, that help will be available.

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    29. idaho says:

      to admin,,always been afraid to post,, due to tracking

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    30. alc says:

      I think I’ve got $30 in the bank, if they take it, they take it. I think I ought to pull $20 out though so they only get $10.

      I swapped some antique-ish stuff to a local antique store for two Silver Eagles, they’re 1-oz fine silver, that was as nice trade.

      You guys/gals could try that, swap “antique” stuff for silver, you often come out ahead. I wanted $50 for my stuff but got $60+ instead.

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    31. Vote Nigel Farage for President of the United States of America

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    32. wendy says:

      Not to many years ago,a small local owned bank was closed by the Feds due to the manager taking the money. We were lucky, we do not ( and I still dont want to ) direct deposit, people were scared and tried to get their money out and couldnt. They had no cash and no one would take their, ( or ours) checks, I went to a different town where I had an account with my Dad and cashed my husbands check. People in our town had no money or access to money for 3-4 days. They didnt revolt, but this was before 2008, and all the crap that goes on today

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    33. Ah yes…the Germans.

      Once again, they are shooting the messenger and blaming the wrong people for the mess they took part in a la “the euro”.

      So, while The Fed allows the Europeans to buy dollars on the cheap, Germany sits back and sneers at the rest of us for being “irresponsible.”

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    34. ScoutMotto says:

      If they were running an honest money system, a bank run would not be necessary. People naturally see their money at extreme risk, and want to get it out before it is forever out of their reach. Fractional reserve banking and fiat money must be outlawed.

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    35. VRF says:

      lets all try it and see….
      when was the last time your banker did something good for you?
      yeah something totally selfless, and thought only about their customers..
      like decided some fees were just way too much so they gave it all back to you..

      yeah right

      If I had my money in a bank, i’d already have it out

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    36. Kevin Beary says:

      The wealthy are also withdrawing cash and buying hard assets (though most of what passes for contemporary art these days is probably not the best place to put your money):

      <>

      http://www.theimproper.com/art/585/contemporary-art-market-soars-as-rich-seek-hard-assets

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    37. king crazy says:

      All my money is tied up in pre tax IRAs.:(

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    38. truelove says:

      If it is ok for the banks to spend money that is printed out of thin air, then, why not print all of us a million dollar, and we can spent it to stimulate the economy? The answer is obvious: one can not continue to pay for debt with more debt. Many of us have already tried that and have lost everything…paying a credit card off with another credit card. The banks will quit offering new cards to anyone who balances their budget in this way. It would be fun to spend a million dollars, though, would it not?

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      • 41MagMan says:

        “…why not print all of us a million dollar, and we can spent it to stimulate the economy?

        Unfortunately, merely spending money does not do a lot for an economy. Everyone running around buying the latest trinkets from China, using gasoline from foreign oil, with borrowed money does not stimulate the US economy much, if any. When spending results in investments that then create more wealth than they require to get started, THAT is when spending stimulates an economy.

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    39. Old Fuzzy says:

      I’ve heard people say that when SHTF they will rob armored cars,etc. When SHTF, money will be worthless. You can steal the fuel from the tank of the truck, but that’s about it.

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    40. Magnix says:

      Create your own bank converting your money into silver/gold. I dont trust them.

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    41. Do you guys realize a run on the banks can imply deflation as well as hyper inflation. Deflation scares me far more because while I have some cash its risky to hold due to the risk of hyper inflation.

      http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/negative-mood-driving-market-prechter-140200467.html

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      • Jim, I think the point is that get it out now, not for holding, God forbid, but USING; hell, if you don’t need it and are gonna lose it anyway…give to others…load up the truck or van and give food for Christmas presents…pay a utility bill for someone…pay YOUR utilities ahead, or mortgages paid ahead…lock in next year’s propane for next year and if you don’t have propane issues, share with others that do…God is watching, people, do something noble with that money the bank is holding..
        Sorry, am I out of line here??

        Peace.

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      • 41MagMan says:

        Deflation and inflation are the dark sides of fiat currency and the manipulation that always accompanies it. Silver and gold are REAL money, not some paper crap that can and will disappear just when we need it. All deflation means to anyone who has real money is that they can then buy more stuff with what they have. Same for inflation. Only those who hold currency will be screwed by inflation. Just part of The Plan.

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    42. OLDVET says:

      Think dollar devaluation first!!!

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      • 41MagMan says:

        LOL! The dollar has been devaluing ever since 1913. A $1 FRN today is worth about 3% of a 1912 dollar in buying power. Put in more recent terms, you could buy a gallon of gas for two bits in 1964. Today, that gallon of gas costs $3.60 in FRN currency… or about 12 cents in real money. So that same real quarter from 1964 will now buy 2 gallons of gas. Inflation? What inflation? Inflation only bites us when we play the bankster / funny money game. While we all have to do that to some extent, we can (and should!) take steps to minimize it.

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    43. Moving from DC to Switzerland in a couple months. Any opinions on the relative safety of putting my money in banks over there?

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    44. Fred H says:

      seeds will be worth more than gold,get some to survive.

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    45. LongDistanceOperator says:

      @ NSBF

      Get a new accountant soon. I just took that characters advice in a long ago post and it worked. I did not bother with seeing my accountant I talked to my banker & she set it up. Three more days and I can get my money without penalties. I don’t know where you are located but here in South Carolina its legal.

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    46. clear says:

      clear

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    47. Pnthm says:

      Have you ever heard of the Bankers Clawback Rule…..Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………………Well you will……………..

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    48. Pnthm says:

      Close 401 IRA’s via ERSOP
      Easy………………………..

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