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    Surviving Collapse
     

    Governments Request “Contingency Planning for Extreme Scenarios Including Rioting and Social Unrest”

    Mac Slavo
    November 27th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (301)
    Read by 1,700 people

    The writing is on the wall. If you can’t read it, then you’re going to have a problem – very soon. It was in early 2009 that we first warned our readers of the coming wave of riots and social unrest that would envelop the globe. Nearly three years on we’re seeing a progressive increase in tension among those affected by deteriorating economic conditions and the trend towards social unrest seems to be accelerating. Absolutely nothing has been resolved in terms of the economic and financial woes facing the world, despite the literally trillions of dollars of wealth in the form of credit and monetary easing that has been committed to the crisis.

    As the economic paradigm shifts and hundreds of millions of citizens from the world’s advanced economies are thrown into poverty (including 100 million from the U.S. alone), the situation is getting critical. So much so that what once existed only in the realm of conspiracy theory and alternative news web sites – that governments, especially in the U.S., are planning for large-scale economic meltdown and social unrest –  is now a foregone conclusion in political circles.

    Europe, as we discussed in 2009, is now coming unhinged and we have the real possibility of not just a collapse in the sovereign debt of a single nation, but the entire European Union and their beloved currency. This is not just some far-out possibility. The collapse of Europe now seems more likely than ever, and governments and regulatory agencies all over the continent are calling for immediate preparations, planning and strategies to deal with the imminent collapse of sovereign debt of individual countries, European banks, and the Euro monetary system that is the glue holding it all together.

    It’s in our interests that they keep playing for time because that gives us more time to prepare,” the minister told the Daily Telegraph.

    Recent Foreign and Commonwealth Office instructions to embassies and consulates request contingency planning for extreme scenarios including rioting and social unrest.

    Greece has seen several outbreaks of civil disorder as its government struggles with its huge debts. British officials think similar scenes cannot be ruled out in other nations if the euro collapses.

    Diplomats have also been told to prepare to help tens of thousands of British citizens in eurozone countries with the consequences of a financial collapse that would leave them unable to access bank accounts or even withdraw cash.

    The EU treaties that created the euro and set its membership rules contain no provision for members to leave, meaning any break-up would be disorderly and potentially chaotic.

    If eurozone governments defaulted on their debts, the European banks that hold many of their bonds would risk collapse.

    Some analysts say the shock waves of such an event would risk the collapse of the entire financial system, leaving banks unable to return money to retail depositors and destroying companies dependent on bank credit.

    The Financial Services Authority this week issued a public warning to British banks to bolster their contingency plans for the break-up of the single currency.

    Some economists believe that at worst, the outright collapse of the euro could reduce GDP in its member-states by up to half and trigger mass unemployment.

    When the unemployment consequences are factored in, it is virtually impossible to consider a break-up scenario without some serious social consequences,” UBS said.

    Source: Telegraph

    Underestimate this events at your peril. Similar events played out in Europe in the early 1930′s, and we experienced a decade’s long depression here in the United States, followed by five years of world war – and that’s when we were a creditor nation without hundreds of trillions in debt and liabilities.

    The collapse of Europe, as we have argued for several years, is imminent. If it so happens that Europe does collapse as we forecast, and capital flees to the safety of the US dollar (thus boosting the dollar’s strength and causing a stock market meltdown) than we urge readers to consider the repercussions that will be felt in America. Within a period of a few months to a few years a similar scenario will play out with our own sovereign debt and currency. And, when the world’s reserve currency goes into meltdown mode, all bets are off.

    There’s a reason governments the world over are preparing contingency plans. They know it’s coming, and they know it will be pandemonium. There is, as we noted two years ago, No Way to Avoid Financial Armageddon.

    Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst -

    • collapse of purchasing power due to hyperinflation
    • interruptions to the normal flow of commerce
    • disruptions to food supplies
    • political upheaval
    • increased violence
    • riots
    • the militarization of Main Street
    • and the potential for failure of our domestic utility grid.

    We realize these are extreme potentialities and many might suggest we take off the tin foil hat, but the same was true when we and others forecast a collapse of Europe, civil unrest and government contingency planning three years ago. That has now been actualized.

    The next leg of this crisis will take hold in the United States in due time. Don’t wait until it’s too late. Start thinking about money during a collapse, bartering items, post-collapse trade skills, and creating a solid preparedness foundation.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 1,700 people
    Date: November 27th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    301 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. POSSEE says:

      Mac

      Excellent article

      Nothing more needs to be said

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0

      • Odd Questioner says:

        Actually, I think it would be excellent to figure out what indeed they would do, so that those of us who are preppers can, well, prepare for it. To figure out and work around these restrictions until the government finally collapses. To lay low and stay out of the way. The way I figure it, if it ever comes to such measures, they’ll only last as long as the government behind them will, and that likely won’t be for too awful long.

        With a little luck, it’ll keep the zombie hordes still for awhile, which actually increases the chances of survival for the rest of us.

        Of course, for those who want to grab an AR-15 in one hand and their scrotum in the other, shouting obscenities and charging the barricades? Well, at least it’ll be entertaining for a few minutes, and their soon-to-be-abandoned houses can then be ransacked for useful supplies.

        You see, in survival it’s all about the brains, and only sometimes the brawn. Save the firepower for the raiders and common criminals. Be clever as hell against the governmental types who would take from you. Odds are perfect they will burn themselves out long before they ever got to the point of raiding individual homes w/o a damned good reason to, so if they want to hit the grain silos and warehouses, well, let them. As long as you have your seeds and tools stored, with maybe some small livestock on the side? They’ll be quickly burning themselves out, and by the time they do, there’s liable to be quite a bit left over, even in the silos and warehouses. Only question is what to do with the troops that decide to not try and go home to their families.

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        • Urdo says:

          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

          Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 32

          • Odd Questioner says:

            I’m assuming you’re literate enough to have read the whole thing, so going with that assumption:

            Call it what you will, but if you’re stupid enough to charge the barricades and get killed during collapse, your stuff will be dutifully divvied up by the community. You don’t like that? Too friggin’ bad. Deal with the emotions however you think you might, but you’ll be dead and won’t be able to do a damned thing about it, while the rest of us happily split your supplies among us, just that much more secure in our own futures.

            Hell, it happens now. Some idiot goes nuts and gets killed by the cops? The estate either goes to the family, or gets sold at auction. What makes a collapse situation any different (aside from the city/county/state getting the proceeds)?

            But yeah, stand on your soapbox and call me all the names you like. Meanwhile? I’ll happily remain among the fellow survivors, and you? Well, you’ll be another dead nutter.

            But if there’s any consolation? Well, at least you’ll feel like, you know, a total badass, dude – especially during those last few moments of life – right up until they return fire on your sorry, misguided, screaming ass.

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          • Urdo, did you actually read OQ’s comment or just pick out a couple sentences? If you did the former then your response is totally lacking of intelligent thought. If you did the latter then you should go back and read the whole comment.

            For people who want to foment a revolution, there is an intelligent way to do it. OQ just suggested that there will be some, who, while abandoning their senses will also abandon their residences. As such, their resources that can be used by others will certainly be divided. Are you suggesting that those resources just set there doing nothing? The food? The ammo? The tools?

            Truly, *THAT* would be nothing short of idiotic. It can’t be considered stealing or looting if its abandoned. Its quite obvious to me that you’re new at considering these situations.

            I find it odd that someone would call a person a rat for “harvesting” abandoned property. You better get your thinking straightened out before things get bad. Following your moral code, you’d starve living next to an abandoned warehouse.

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          • harry mud says:

            I smell a troll in this Urdo character. I do not want Urdo as a neighbor. Noway! Liberal?? I want Odd Questioner for a neighbor and not Urdo.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

        • Hammerun says:

          There is a theory out there, the reason our Government won’t admit or confirm the existence of UFOs, once it is common knowledge to the population, they will possibly lose confidence in their Governments, Faiths, core beliefs, do or do not do things like pay their bills, taxes, obey and to adhere to laws, and in some cases, common decency. Degradation of common order will be nothing short of chaotic at best.
          Let’s say this thing does go south and it folds up. Then what happens? Chaos for a few months, including our worst fears. At some point things will settle out and things will come to a different order. That’s the way it always happens, chaos begets order and from order comes peace. And we depend on ourselves for a change and don’t have to listen to the thieving liars in DC.
          That $15 trillion we supposedly owe to everybody. Let those effing clowns like Kery, Pelosi and Obama and his butt buddy Soros write the check, f*** them.
          If this country blows up, it will be their fault. We will figure out how to make the best out of it, no matter what. I personally believe they will not allow this to happen, it will be at their own peril. The government exists expressly because “WE” allow it to. Because “WE” believe it to be necessary. Once the government betrays us it will drift away like a fart in a small room. Once trust is broken, it will be decade’s maybe even lifetimes when maybe there is some semblance of a return.
          In the meantime, what are the elect going to do? What go hide in a bunker somewhere and try to show up way after the SHTF and hits the ground and decomposition has set in? Just remember this. “we are outside and it will be up to us whether to let you out or not.”
          I say; bring it on and let the shit fly!!

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7

          • Odd Questioner says:

            I agree on one point: We get what we deserve. Problem is, there are far too many over-fed, under-brained, self-entitled people out there who think the government exists to keep them fed, warm, and self-actualized.

            I figure that once the bread and circuses stop flowing on a regular basis, the population will rise up and start screaming on their own, accelerating the collapse. No UFO’s or zombies necessary… human beings are quite evil enough on their own.

            My own hope is that once the crap settles, those who survive will build a new and better society. Until then, the nutters, the self-entitled, the lazy, the stupid, and the malicious will die off. Unfortunately, so will the innocent, the meek, the old, the very young, the lame, and the weak. One can only hope to let the former group kill each other off, while protecting the latter group as much as you reasonably can.

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        • akvalmet30 says:

          The troops that don’t go home to their families have made their dicision and stand beside the ZOG Government. They should be shot on sight. This soldier is going home and helping his people and family. You know though, surviving against those brainwashed federal minions is going to be a task. They may be dumb as shit those that follow the Government, but they are still trained to take us out. damn.

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          • DRD5508 says:

            ak; good points. Though ‘they are still trained to take us out’; there are more of us that have the same training and it won’t be easy to take us out.
            It is the satellites that give them the advantage.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

        • mountain man 6-1 says:

          I agree with ya 100%,if ya make the right plans and keep a low profile you should be ok.I’m th FNG guy here,kinda new to th internet but NOT to th really bad things that’s been going on in this country since th Dot COM meltdown!So there’s no membership to this site?How do I make a comment instead of just replying to someone?I really love to read these articals and comments.Cool site!! Thanks!

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Robert J Wilson Jr. says:

        It doesn’t really Matter at all when you KNOW WHO REALLY HOLDS THE FUTURE! AND NOT WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR YOU! Believe in Jesus Christ and be saved from all the worldly, Problems you will find they really don’t matter because you can’t fix it just complaining about and cry’n over it because the power’s at hand only CARE FOR THEMSELVES and what they can get out of shallowness and vainity over something they can never take passed the grave. Hold your Riches on High and seek thy Truth and Golden Shore with that Mansion on the Hill! For All have come short of the Glory of Jesus Christ! But can have ever lastin Peace , Grace and Mercy. My you all be Blessed aboundantly.

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    2. DPS says:

      Mac

      Where did you find this? And what goverments are asking for the plans? With all due respect I would like to know where you got this info.

      DPS

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      • DPS, my bad there. I forgot to source the article via a link (it has been updated in the main article above). It’s from the Telegraph as Mirbach, John and Scole123 pointed out. (I removed a couple of the comments [from John and Scole] to keep from having the link repeated numerous times, but thanks guys!)

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        • DPS says:

          Mac

          Thank you sir, I just always look at all the angles. If you get a chance do some digging into the vets possilbly ask for members of the NRA for help. I made a post early today about what I was asked last night by a ex soldier. I’m still digging for info, But I also joined the NRA this morning. Not sure what is going on yet, But I’m keeping my eyes open and my powder dry.

          Sincerely,
          DPS

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

      • durango kidd says:

        DPS: Anglosphere banks have been dumping Euro zone sovereign debt for some time and prepping for the Changes there. Its common knowledge in the financial community and on financial Blogs.

        London still uses the Pound Sterling.

        Changes yes, but no “Collapse”. Transformation I think is the better word. Banks and investors take a haircut. Taxpayers take a haircut. Europe gets stronger from the Changes.

        Germany dictates the final result. The devil is literally in the details.

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          I can agree to that, though I think Germany may not end up being the stronger for it…

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          • durango kidd says:

            OQ: Financially Germany may not be stronger, initially, but politically, agreements are being negotiated and drafted to consolidate the Union giving more power under strict conditions to a “federal government”.

            Because Germany IS the financial power it is dictating those terms to some extent. “Collapse” is not acceptable to the major players in this game, as no good results would destroy them all.

            I have $100 that says the EU emerges stronger and more cohesive from this crisis. Are there any takers out there?

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

          • Odd Questioner says:

            That would depend on how they recover. They don’t exactly have the greatest history of self-recoveries from financial crises. ;)

            I know, cheap shot, but still, there’s a ring of truth to it. Germany is one of the main pillars of the whole EU economy. If it drops, nothing’s really going to help bring it back up in any kind of short-term. Meanwhile, Russia is quite nearby, and becoming quite resurgent…

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • durango kidd says:

            OQ: Russia would have to move through Poland to get to Germany. Its not your daddy’s Poland anymore. And then there is this little thing called NATO.

            Russia wants into the WTO. Russia has been neutralized for the time being.

            The “war” is between NWO Globalist Goldman Sachs who wants to control all the money in the world and thus all of US; and NWO Global Government Socialists who want to control all of the governments of the world under the UN, and thus all of US.

            Guess who is winning?

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    3. watchdog says:

      Most european countries as well as the U.S have been preparing these plans, not caring much about 3rd world countries either. They won’t either tell you about it. If they did, that would create chaos by itself. Better be prepped and safe than sorry.

      The S….will hit the fan before you know it.

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    4. SSPXER says:

      I think this is where we will all see the big payoff in our silver investments:

      1) First, the Euro will collapse, artificially bolstering the “strength” of the US Dollar, and crashing the spot price of silver;

      2) This will be the last opportunity for those who have not yet bought all they could afford (or for the rest of us to add to our positions);

      3) Then after Europe is reduced to 3rd world status, the contagion will fixate on US debt, crashing the US Dollar and catapulting silver in USD terms;

      4) At this point, you will be forced to make quick decisions:

      A) You liquidate your silver during this short-lived period in which people will still accept US Dollars and immediately purchase all the tangibles you can before people refuse to accept them; or

      B) You barter silver directly for such tangibles during this short window of opportunity

      5) But then the purchasing power of even silver will vanish once chaos and total collapse have set in, and the only commodities with purchasing power will be food, guns (if you are stupid enough to give one to somebody) and ammo; water purification stuff; etc.

      6) As order begins to be restored (after how long, and under what circumstances???), commerce will redevelop, and silver will regain enormous purchasing power. Not so much as it had under hyperinflation at the onset of the crunch, but much more than at present under manipulated conditions.

      7) So what is the point of all this, and what in the heck does silver have to do with this article? Answer: The inevitable collapse cometh. You can profit from it, or be destroyed by it. If world governments are preparing, you had better be preparing too.

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      • Great stuff SSPXER!

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      • Kevin2 says:

        SSPXER

        Good information. I do make one exception.

        “You can profit from it, or be destroyed by it.”

        None of us of normal means will profit from it relative to what we consider profit. We may retain at best some pre crash purchasing power and that’s about it.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • SSPXER says:

          Hello Kevin-

          I suppose this is debatable material, and I certainly have no crystal ball to know how this will all go down.

          But in my individual case, I do think I will actually profit from such a scenario as I laid out above:

          1) It is my intention, as silver skyrockets, to cash out of about 75% of my holdings and transfer it into cash, immediately purchasing large swaths of real estate in the Northwest with it.

          2) Currently, I only own about 1,000 Oz of silver, which is currently worth $31k in FRNs;

          3) If the spot price goes to, say, $100/oz (and I think it will eventually double that number, but as it does, people will quit accepting Dollars, so counter-productive to try and cash out at that point), that would give me $100k in liquid assets, which would get me my 40 acres of raw land; shell cabin; underground fallout shelter.

          4) Currently, I could never afford those things;

          5) But in the scenario outlined above, I will be increasing wealth hand-over-fist;

          6) So in a very real sense, I will have profited from the crunch through having purchased silver.

          7) At least, it was in this sense that I meant “You can profit from it or be destroyed by it.”

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          • Kevin2 says:

            Good thought to ponder and I wish you luck. My concern with your strategy is for one property rights. Taxes come into play too. The IRS is there asking “Where did you get the $100K”? “Oh from silver? Well we want $33% of the gain”? “We believe you bought it when it was $7 an oz, you must prove otherwise, where is the documentation”? “Oh the presumption of innocence”? ‘We presume your innocent but you must show still show us the documentation that you bought it above $7 an oz”.

            It’s damn difficult to secure a good profit when your silent business partner is the IRS.

            I can’t see a ray of sunshine inside of any of this dark cloud. Stay off their radar screen. Buy a smaller place and trade silver for necessities from locals in small amounts.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Kevin2 is right… though you do have a small window between realizing the profit and having the IRS snoop into it. Call it any time between cashing out and April 15th of the next calendar year.

            There is one thing that seems missing in SSPXer’s plan: closing date. Sometimes you can purchase and close on the same day, but some states require something like a 30-day waiting period for title searches and things like that.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          • Brad3000 says:

            SSPXER,
            Until now, I have using the active strategy below -

            1/2 or 1oz Gold bullion for wealth preservation/hedging – pref is 1oz. Not coins due to their numeristic value. The issue with gold for or as barter is it could become too expensive except in grams quantities.

            US Silver Dollars 1oz/999fine 2010/2011years as they are known and will likely be easily bartered or exchanged for other goods.

            Gold and silver have dropped a few points in the last week but my crystal ball is at the cleaners. The worse the Euro gets the stronger the USD and the inverse for these 2 commodities but it looks like a huge rubber band being pulled back.

            I dont see them going below $1600 or $27 respectively again as they will be snapped up by every last Chinese and Indian man, woman and child and the Central Banks too… so watch its fall and recovery this next 10days as it (still) may present a buying op.

            http://www.apmex.com
            http://www.kitco.com > Charts > Live Gold or Silver
            http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

            YMMV.

            Disclosure: No affiliations.

            Ironically Gold is back to 1705 now.
            Silver 31.00 to 31.80

            Brad

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

          • Prepping Preacher says:

            capitalism at it’s best – making good in a bad situation… no “tongue-in-cheek” here… it’s “gittin’ while the gittin’s good” theory at work..

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • Gods Creation says:

            Why are people concerned with the IRS??????

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • sixpack says:

            Personally, I’m stocking up on booze and tobacco—because those are the “supplies” that idiots will kill for when life gets too rough for them. I say, let ‘em get drunk after they trade their useless water for 80 proof…

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        • greaseman says:

          some people might like to profit from their wise purchase of precious metals. nothing wrong with that. I just hope to be able to survive long enough to get by, and, hopefully profit from my foresight. I never bought my metals as investment, although an increase in value is great. I bought what few PM’s I have as asset protection. So far, it seems that was the smartest thing I ever did. Whatever ammount anyone wants to buy, they better do it soon. When silver hits the $50 mark, it will be off to the races. Keep stackin…..

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • prepping doc says:

            All of this is EXCELLENT discussion. A few points to consider:

            1 Store up at least 6 months, preferrably 1 years worth of non-perishable foods that can be prepared without electricity. Try to store a little more for Christian charity if you feel so inclined. However, when the SHTF happens, make sure anybody you give this charity to knows if they come back, there will be dire consequences (see #2)

            2 Guns and ammo to keep the unprepared, lazy masses from taking #1 from you and your family. LOTS of ammo and make sure everybody in your household knows how to either use the guns (adults and older children) or how to load the magazines (children).

            3 Get all your medicines stocked up. If you need blood pressure meds to survive, you won’t be able to pop down to Walgreens to pick some up.

            4 Consider banding together with like-minded people to form a protection group. DO NOT FORM A GANG TO GO OUT RAIDING OTHERS AS WE WILL SHOOT YOU DEAD. Just form a group to pool resources where everyone contributes to the PROTECTION and survival of the group. There is strength in numbers.

            5 Consider “junk” silver, US coins minted before 1965 which are 90% silver. These are small enough amounts of silver to use as currency. It will be hard to trade an oz. of silver ($100+ value) for loafs of bread but a dime (worth about $2.40 right now) is much easier. Bartering is all well and good but what if someone has something you need but you dont have what he/she needs? You can trade silver for it and they can trade silver for what they need with someone else.

            See also http://www.survivalblog.com. James Wesley Rawles wrote a great book about this exact scenario called “Patriots”. Get a copy and read it. Lots of good info. Remember: Beans, bullets, band-aids.

            Prepping is like buying life insurance…you hope you don’t need it but it is foolish to not have it.

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      • JustMe says:

        Recall that the posssesion of gold was made illegal, and all gold siezed in the 1930′s. There is nothing to stop them banning the possesion of silver on a whim…

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        • Horace says:

          Actually….imho, I think that banning/confiscating metals again would lead to instant rebellion, and a very violent one at that. It would be a combo I think. One would be of the conscious people (like ourselves here on sites like these) who would stand their ground and do what’s right. The other component would be those who, knowing how the masses react to $2 Wal-Mart waffle irons like manic caffeinated sheep with two-digit IQ’s, a loss of any real assets = blood.

          Then again, if that does happen, that’s just what TPTB want. It would be like a self-cleaning oven, one that they would use against the rest of the populace for total control and population reduction.

          Just one perspective.

          Peace to all.

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          • ScoutMotto says:

            I can’t see them trying another confiscation of either metal. Back in 1933, gold was in circulation and everywhere you looked. Today it is not circulated, and all someone needs to do is bury it for it to “not exist.” There would be a very low degree of compliance if they tried this again, and yes the possibility of open rebellion is quite high considering the temperature of the political atmosphere these days.

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          • Instant rebellion? Absolutely no way. Never.

            First of all, if you knew how to purchase your PM’s, then no one knows you’ve got them. I suspect that is the case with most people who post here and the vast majority of those who have their metals as a means to protect their purchasing power. (If one didn’t pay over $10k per purchase for silver/gold, then there should be no records.)

            Secondly, how many here would “turn in” their PM’s for an amount well below what they paid for them, even if the penalty was a hefty fine and/or prison time?

            Third, How many own PM’s in AMerica? If we’re not talking about gold/silver jewelry, then, less than 1 % of the population. Of that 1 % there are generally two groups. Those that bought out of fear and would turn it in based on a greater fear of their government coming to “GET THEM”, and those that have absolutely no intention of “giving” it back. So you think the “fearful” ones are going to rebel? Certainly not those that plan to keep their stash as a stash, while remaining out of sight, taking the path of least resistance.

            Four… Wal Mart shoppers? Are you implying Wal Mart shoppers might have silver and gold coins/bullion as an investment hedge or a means to protect their purchasing power?

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          • JustMe says:

            I agree that it would difficult to ban precious metals, but consider this:

            Most people alive today have never even touched a real piece of gold and/or siver except the odd piece of jewlry. They will not complain when a ban comes and they are told they can only eat what is “purchased” via thier RFID chip. They will not protect you if they think you have something they do not, especially if there is incentive for them to expose you.

            TPTB do not care how many people bleed. They will not. They are well isolated, and insulated. Mark my words, your precious metals will be banned.

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        • Kevin2 says:

          JustMe

          Yep

          All they need is to “white out” Cocaine on a page of the law and type in Silver.

          It could become law by executive order before the ink was dry.

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          • Can you say:

            “click!” – Revolution on!

            They’ll never do that. They try it, people will die. Its not something they can do. People intrinsically know that Silver and Gold are money and they would know INSTANTLY the crookedness that is afoot.

            See thats the thing about other contraband: they can make it look bad. How do you make a guy who’s invested in silver look “evil”? He just looks “smart” and people will know this deep down. Nope. Don’t see it happening.

            Oh, and executive orders can kiss my ass just as much as they can effect me. They only apply to the United States of America and its territories of which I am not living in a part of. If they try enforce such things, that when the claws come out.

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        • I see your point but counter with the fact that lead would keep them from banning silver or gold. They do that and thats when the patriots will start looking for storage space 55gr FMJ spitzers (or 150gr FMJ spitzers).

          We all know what it means if they would do such a thing: TREASON. Criminal Conspiratorial Treason.

          At some point when crimes are egregious, blatant and apparent enough, a court is not necessary only ammunition. The condition you mention would dictate that. They’re not that stupid. They’ll try to starve us out. It won’t work but they’ll try.

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        • greaseman says:

          keep in mind that gold and silver are the money of the elites. I just don’t see them making it difficult for their own greedy selves to profit from the buying or selling of metals. But the government could certainly tax the sales of every transaction. we can only guess. But common sense dictates that the metals are one of the few protections we have for what is certainly common. added with other timely preps, it’s all we can do.

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        • “Possession of gold was made illegal and all gold seized in the 1930′s?”

          No, possession of gold was not illegal. One was allowed to keep 5 ounces of gold, or, when gold was $20 dollars an ounce, up to $100 worth.

          Statistics suggest that 13.9 million ounces of gold were still in circulation in January 1934 and that only about 21.9% of the gold in circulation had been handed in.

          What can one deduce from those figures?

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          • …that the gold confiscation was a myth. Its propaganda. In fact, I’ve seen that only 1 person was ever prosecuted for not turning in his gold. I think people were a lot smarter than we give them credit for. They did not go house to house looking for it. They ban silver or gold and they can just go pound sand. I don’t have any, at that point.

            If they were to actually ban the stuff, it would be an indication of the death throws of a government gone from bad to worse. It would also mean that the price was about to skyrocket.

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        • enjay says:

          just because they say turn it in…doesn’t mean you have to obey. what are they gonna do…shearch every backyard in the cities of america with metal detectors…there isnt enough manpower. just keep what you have to yourself…secretly

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        • 0352 says:

          JM, Sure there is. Some 80 million gun owners in the USA.

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      • I’ve seen this coming.

        My plan is this: wait until spot silver drops like a stone. (…don’t wait until the bottom or you won’t get it because everyone will be buying.) Once its down and I get a few hundred ounces, I will then wait until the contagion spreads to here. Once it does I will cash in enough silver to pay off my debts (about 20K worth) using worthless US$s. I’m guessing that if I dump 10K into silver that once the hyperinflation of it hits I can cash out maybe half of it and pay off the debt. This will essentially be like paying $5,000 for a $20,000 debt. This will be so SWEET! Using their own system against them. Its like cramming inflation and currency manipulation right down their throats.

        Once its paid off, I’ll reclassify my land as private (Oh, you only THINK its private: residential is commercial land with people living there, not private.) and then give notice of the taxing status (or lack thereof).

        Good plan? Bad plan? Comments? Improvements?

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        • JustMe says:

          I see a 2000lb. JDAM in your future…

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        • Kevin2 says:

          NetRanger

          The lower the profile the better. Twenty grand is pretty small but they report over $10K.

          The idea of incorporating the “Rule Of law” in your strategy assumes a “Rule Of Law”.

          I can see them replaying gold confiscation of 1933. It worked then without too many problems. Hell were all in this together. Don’t you love your Country? It’s the right thing to do. Your kids hear in school how this is providing food, clothing and shelter to other needy Americans. Businesses taking Silver and Gold in violation of the “Currency Act” are subject to very heavy fines. Who fights to the death over a fine? Answer; no sane person.

          You plan on paying off a home or other debt? I know a guy that got a lump sum payment on layoff and paid off credit cards and car when he could have paid off his mortgage instead. He said, “I can write off the mortgage” (so 1980s thinking). You can default on the cards and keep a roof over your head. He could not find a job that paid enough to pay the mortgage and lost the home. I think he slept in the car for a while.

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          • durango kidd says:

            sspxer: You base your scenario on a fictional account, believing that events have a life of their own. I disagree. I believe that events are shaped by the decisions that are made. I base my scenario on human nature.

            The UR, GB’s, PTB, and other assorted globalists are greedy and selfish. They are not stupid or suicidal.

            In the decision making process I believe self interest will prevail.

            Right now the game is hardball between Goldman Sachs and the Politicians; which is why Germany couldn’t sell its bond auction last week without a purchase from its Central Bank and Italy could.

            Brinkmanship yes, but not martyrdom.

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          • No, no, no. You never cash all that in at once. You do it at 15 different locations in varying quantities.

            I repeat: NEVER DEAL IN LARGE SUMS OF CASH. It must be *OFF* the record. It marks you with X’s and like a target mounted on a post.

            Quietly but swiftly.

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        • Gods Creation says:

          Ranger, you can not PAY anything with the debt currency. It will become discharged by the true owner, the corp., who also happens to own the paper you discharged it with. You may be able to obtain equitable use interest, but nothing more.

          By then, the corp will not transfer any property for any body, fiction or real.

          You can discharge the debt on the property, but the only way you will ever own it is to fence it all in and fire a warning shot at anybody who dares come in.

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      • durango kidd says:

        S SPXER: Respectfully, I must disagree with both you and Mac.

        Your strategy and your expectation for the price of silver is based upon the premise that “collapse” is coming, and you relate that scenario to a fictional account created by Rawles.

        I don’t agree and do not see “collapse” coming at all from the financial crisis in Europe, despite ALL of those who are true believers in that result.

        I do see “transformation”. These Changes will affect everyone, including the Uber Rich and the GB’s, but it will hurt the less fortunate and ill prepared the most (as usual).

        The financial system is not going to implode in the United States or in Europe.

        Taken to the brink in Europe maybe, so that TPTB can use the crisis to tighten its grip over sovereign states; but no financial collapse.

        Silver is not a precious metal. Silver is an industrial metal. It will fluctuate in value, but gold is THE metal to own and it will continue to rise and hold its price within limits.

        The value of silver is a medium of exchange. And increase in its price reflects a measure of expectation of inflation, not financial collapse. Any increase in the price of silver is transitory.

        The value of gold is a store of wealth and this is where big money flees in crisis and to hedge against inflation. With double digit inflation likely for some time, the price of gold should continue to rise with profit taking along the way.

        Big money would stay with gold and platinum because silver as an industrial metal serves the industrial base THEY own.

        Neither of these will replace script, except gold in Europe perhaps, as the support to digital money issued by the ECB and electronically distributed to the various sovereign states, to monitor and control the economies of the Euro member states.

        I expect a formula to emerge from these negotiations for the individual sovereign states to “earn” their share of “wealth” as a measure of productivity among the member states.

        This would require reasonable leverage with a if you do not work you do not eat mentality. Thus the mark of the beast for citizens of Europe.

        The politicians of individual countries, and their individual central banks would be subserviant to the ECB federal Bank, and eventually, so would all of the citizens of Europe.

        Power then would continue to consolidate into the political structures of the EU.

        Speculate with silver. Invest in gold. Horde your lead. They won’t be making anymore of it after the Changes really come.

        The present crisis is just a wake up call to get OUR house in order.

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          I like the idea, but there are some nitpicks…

          Those changes you mention are going to upset one hell of a delicate apple cart, to the point where the majority of humanity faces the very real possibility of starvation and the collapse of civilization. We’re all too interconnected, and there are only two options: isolation, or complete globalization.

          North America can somewhat isolate itself from the direct and economic results to a point, but there is still that dependence on oil to get over, and the massive number of T-Bills and such that folks like China will want to cash in. The latter can be ignored and would piss off China (not to mention wreck their economy, causing collapse there), but the former cannot – at least not in any way that makes sense and doesn’t cause collapse here at home.

          Even if you managed to surmount those two obstacles (especially the really big one concerning crude oil), I haven’t even touched on the deficit of manufacturing here that would need to be brought back up to speed. Nor have I touched on the massive amount of assets overseas that US companies would lose almost literally overnight.

          Overall, it would lead to a very big mess that could not easily be cleaned up, and would cause some rather ugly chain reactions here at home.

          Now this could be the perfect opportunity for seizure of power by an enterprising group or individual, one who can promise and deliver bread to the masses and money to the corporations.

          OTOH, the only ones who could conceivably do it would be those who could create a global government and control. Problem there is, that’s still somewhat impossible as well: Too many sovereign entities that don’t want to lose their local control, an intense desire for them to be the ones controlling global politics instead of just receiving the results of it, and a vast array of ideology difference (and in at least one case religion) that is quite incompatible with any global government that doesn’t place their own above all others.

          I submit the following scenario: Things will go one of two ways, that being…

          a) somehow things stabilize themselves financially, and we’ll be good for another 5-10 years of false prosperity before debt pressures rear their ugly heads again and demand attention – this time possibly beyond the ability to fix.

          b) things start breaking down in slow motion, which gives us 7-10 years of progressively worsening conditions, though it won’t be until year 6 or so before it becomes obvious to everyone that there will be no recovery.

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        • DRD5508 says:

          DK; great analogy. I too believe your last sentence ‘ The present crisis is just a wake up call…’.
          The image I keep having is that the PTB keep creating fictional crisis (making mountains out of mole hills) to see which direction the panicing cattle will run to with every crack of thunder(crisis) or shot. How many will fall off the cliff or surrender to the NWO. It is like they are thinning the herd (people) inorder to see how much resistance they’ll trully have.

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        • Xiccarph says:

          I love the discussions here…never been to this site until today.
          My 2-cents.

          Yes, Gold is THE precious metal. By precious metal, I mean a basis of money standards, not just having a high value…LOTS of things have high value but will never be Money with the cap “M”. Of all the gold produced in history, almost all of it is still around (OK, buried in tombs or in sunken galleons maybe, but STILL around as a “product”). I believe I read someplace that all the gold ever mined would fill only a few olympic swimming pools…thats not very much, folks. The maybe 3-4% not around was lost from industrial usage. So, to a degree, gold is also an industrial metal. Silver is an industrial metal to a greater degree, but it is also a precious metal by historical fact. Gold and silver have always been equated with MONEY, and until recently, have maintained a quite steady ratio (the reasons for the recent deviations from this ratio is a whole other discussion). Both are precious metals and both are industrial metals. Heck, platinum in a historical sense was never a “precious metal”..it has never been employed as a money standard…its rise is due totally to its industrial applications…and some jewelry. Yes, they make platinum bullion now, and palladium…so? You can buy rhodium by the ounce now too, but does that make it a “precious metal”? Rare earths can cost 10′s of thousand of dollars an ounce…are they precious materials or very expensive industrial materials? In the base sense, the only two precious metals throughout history have been gold and silver. Is silver a “speculative” investment? Yes. Is gold a speculative investment? Yes. Are gold and silver an inflationary investment? Yes. Can one thing have more than one status to some degree at the same time? Yes. Just ask Lofti Zadeh! Unlike gold, most silver will disappear due to its higher industrial use. Personally I find silver is far undervalued. Its a commodity that is significantly destroyed as fast as it is excavated from the ground AND is money. One may argue the distinction between speculation and investment, but they are same to some degree? I see silver increasing more %-wise than gold…the gold-silver ratio is inflated, and to bring it back to its historical norm, silver must rise a lot. You will see gold and silver rising and falling together because with a pedigree spanning 1000′s of years, both have been and will continue to be seen as the only “real” money, against which all else is compared. Just looking at the historical/current gold-silver price graphs out there says everything about their relationship as money. Buy both, and you will never loose buying power. And be careful, I refer to buying power…not “return on investment” or “profitable speculation”. The definition of a “gold standard” as inflation protection is that it holds its buying power over time. Look at the historical records, it is fascinating. A measure of gold today buys the same amount of goods as it did 50, 100, 500, 1000+ years ago. Real money holds its value, but is not intended to make you lots of “profit”! If you want profit, play the stock or real estate markets well, or run a successful business.
          Mike

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      • drmike says:

        The Bible tells us that in the last days people will throw their silver into the streets (due to its having no value)and gold will be confiscated.

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        • drmike says:

          Source for the above comment:

          Eze 7:19 They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.

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        • greaseman says:

          That reference in the Bible could mean several things. If food becomes worth more than any gold or silver, as it probably will, people would happily exchange their “worthless” silver for something to eat. But, those that were wise enough to buy silver, were probably wise enough to buy food along with other preps. it’s a package deal, never just one thing.

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    5. manos says:

      Their schedule is going as planned. It’s like a global chess game which is being played just after WWI.
      We are in the position to experience their final moves and whitness history being written in fron of our own eyes.
      Europe’s governments were prepared for riots, as each one of you saw in the tv news and the web.
      But each coin has two sides, and society has not yet shown its anger and desperation. When the human tide goes up, then the globalists will run for their lives.
      Great article Mac.
      Be prepared eveybody. The time is near when you need to make tough decisions.

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      • Manos, I think you’re right on when you say “society has not yet shown its anger and desperation.”

        In the US, for example, we have had the Occupy protests. While the turnouts were large and the message was carried in the mainstream media, it is nothing compared to what we’ll see when people hit the streets because they can’t afford food or medicine. It’s going to get violent, and it won’t just be the cops instigating it.

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      • alc says:

        Manos, you’re a real asset here.

        Yes this stuff, as much of it as I can understand, seems to me like the prelude to WWII.

        The last time the US was “militarized” was WWII, we had rationing, people ratting out the neighbor who had a set of tires squirreled away, air-raid wardens checking people’s blackout screens, etc. People of certain nationalities were put into prison camps! Now, our prison camps were actually more like Boy Scout camps, and WWII was over for us in 5 years and we all worked on getting back to normal, but it was a police state.

        WWI I believe was pretty much the same thing, with a lot of shrill propaganda against Germans.

        My point is, we’ve been “militarized” in the past and it pretty much went OK. It’s not something strange to the US.

        The difference this time around though is, it may not be for just a few years, and it’s in a time of decreasing resources.

        Imagine the US having to get by on just the oil it produces – oil use will have to go down by 50% at least. This means anything from ration books for gasoline, different classes of drivers (in WWII doctors could get gas, the guy with a less necessary job and who can walk to work maybe didn’t) and lots of subtle changes like less plastic furniture and more wooden furniture.

        I think the most likely “doom” we have coming is some sort of halt in banking and thus trade. No more ships full of stuff from China. Lessened or no market for US goods. All we need is some kind of financial crisis and everything nonessential stops.

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        • carynverell says:

          yes, and sadly these facts from ww1 and ww2 are not in the history books that our children are being taught from. my husband still has stamps in his rationbook that he was given as a very small child.

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      • Daisy says:

        Manos – I was just thinking about you and wondering how you are. I’m glad to read your post!

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      • greaseman says:

        manos, you are dead accurate as usual. The elites haven’t seen the “real” riots yet. but they are coming, and they know it. That’s why I feel that whatever happens, it’s going to happen soon. There are too many factors that change things happening all at once for the controllers to ignore. that’s what makes these times so perilious. The tough decisions are coming for all. get your game plan ready.

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      • ScoutMotto says:

        Thank you for keeping us informed, Manos. I try now and then to get a window into Europe or other places through the eyes of a local person so I can measure how things are going in that place.

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      • POSSEE says:

        Manos

        Anger and desperation has hit much of Europe and the Middle East..

        Problem there is they can’t can’t print enough EUS to keep the scheme afloat as they are doing here with the fed printing press..besides..there’s a majority glued to to the electronic bread and circus here with NFL/NBA/Hollywood sTARS and reality tv ad nauseum..

        ‘Comfortably numb” is the average American..

        and don’t forget the rabid millions frothing at the mouth for a political Saviour to rescue them in the 2012 elections..be it Obama or the other circus clowns from the GOP..

        until the tube is pulled or the games cancelled..America will remain complacent and never revolt..even if average citizens are locked up..they will side with the state..

        possee

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        • prepping doc says:

          Possee:

          “until the tube is pulled or the games cancelled..America will remain complacent and never revolt..even if average citizens are locked up..they will side with the state.”

          or until they can no longer get the chips and salsa to munch on while they watch their games. Let them continue on in their “comfortably numb” state while we stock up on the “chips and salsa” and try to educate those we care about to do the same.

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    6. eeder says:

      and…. wait for it….
      PAUL/NORQUIST 2012

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      • BEAR says:

        The Dark Heart of Grover Norquist

        By Ben Cohen

        Neo Con extraordinaire Grover Norquist (head of ‘Americans For Tax Reform) has been doing the rounds in the press, giving his two cents on the future of the Republican Party. Norquist cuts a monstrous figure in the GOP, a sweaty-palmed, bearded pig, literally oozing hatred from every pore of his body. His voice is an influential one in the Republican Party, and Norquist has been suggesting that Louisiana Govenor Bobby Jindal be the front runner for 2012. The Daily Banter did a bit of research on Jindal, discovering quickly that the Govenor is completey barmy, and therefore perfect as the front man for Norquists dark utopic view of America.

        Norquist’s platform is one of savage capitalism, disdain for the poor and homoerotic obsession with military power. In an interview with British Philosopher Alain De Boton for a documentary called ‘Status Anxiety’, Norquist describes his political philosophy. Be prepared to shudder:

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        • Gunsmith says:

          ——-to (bigmouth)BEAR 11/27/11 @ 4:07pm——-

          HA!!!!!! I knew it!!! You slipped up big time, sonny!

          Let me be one who “OUTS” you as a Khazar. I couldn’t help but notice that you possess this annoying tendency to quote your fellow tribesmen, in order to substantiate your lame (anti-gentile / anti-conservative / anti-Christ)world view. You reference a fellow jew named Ben Cohen & expect real humans to accept his drivel as gospel? Get a life or go to hell! Your choice……

          You are now given fair warning. I will “NOT” allow your lies / propaganda to go unchallenged on these threads! Call it a mission from GOD on my end!

          ——the balls in your court now, sonny——!!!

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      • iowa says:

        I’m stumped as to who would be a Good vice president for Mr. Paul.

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      • JustMe says:

        *sighs*…

        Hate to break the news to you, but your “2012 election” will be just another controlled farce. It is a shell-game, and the only way RP would ever be installed as “POTUS”, would be at the lesure of the real PTB. Sorry, RP will not “save Amerika”. Your “vote” means nothing. The facade is coming off, al finis, etc. It’s over, we are past the point of fake “elections” making a bit of difference.

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        • ScoutMotto says:

          Until we return to paper ballots, I fear you may be correct. The electronic voting machines are scam boxes, preprogrammed to provide the results of the election before the ballot is even cast.

          I would rather see us go fully back to paper ballots, and let it take two weeks to find out who will be president. I don’t need to know the night of the election, and neither does anyone else. I don’t care that it appears as a “step backward.” Open, paper ballot voting is the only way to ensure an honest election.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Dunno how to say it, but vote fraud has been common ever since votes were first tallied by counting pottery shards in ancient Greece.

            Even as recent as the big 2000 election bork-up, certain party officials in Florida were caught with a few boxes of stolen vote cards… more than the vote margin that eventually got tallied. It got some minor news attention, but was quickly swept under the rug. Mind you, those were paper ballots.

            To be honest, I work IT for a living, and I agree that it is far too easy to electronically rig an election, both at the individual voting machine level and at the larger regional levels (which get surprisingly little attention by comparison).

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        • greaseman says:

          I’ll make a prediction right here and now. I don’t think we will have any presidential election in 2012. Martial law will be declared by then, cancelling everything. I feel we will be in a world war by then, or have been already attacked, negating the possibility of having national elections. just an opinion, don’t shoot me.

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    7. laura says:

      Like in Katrina, most cops will run to be with their families when people hit the streets. On Dec 12th the protesters say they’re going to block west coast shipping ports trying to stop commerce, hurting the very people that need jobs incl haulers of the cargo coming in these ports. Let’s just see if the police allow protesters to block ports and do nothing to stop them like in Oakland several weeks ago. If they do nothing, it is by design given orders from higher powers which will create more chaos.

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      • Dave says:

        Unions are experts at shooting themselves in the foot.
        First we had the steel unions which killed that industry
        Then we had the textile unions…bye bye
        Then the automotive unions…..seeya
        Now it will be the longshoremen unions blocking the ports.
        Darwin is still at work culling the stupid & emotional from the herd.

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Dave

          Why did the US Textile Industry which was either non union or low paying regardless if it was union or not leave for Asia? The answer is 50 cent per hour labor as opposed to $10 per hour US labor.

          I’m glad the US Steelworkers and Auto Workers made high wages because their jobs were going out of the US if they made $40 or $10 per hour.

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          • Mal Reynolds says:

            Textile industry non-union? Huh? What are you smoking?

            The United Textile Workers of America(UTW)was one of the oldest unions in the US, founded in 1901.

            Textile Workers Union and the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union are examples of two others. (I think these two merged in the mid-70s?)

            American workers deserve higher pay so long as they’re more productive, which is often the case. The problem with unions, like the USW, is they drove the price of labor too high and protected BAD workers. I grew up in Pittsburgh and watched the dumb @ss union bosses DESTROY the steel industry there.

            Tell me why it takes over $10k a year to teach my kid in a public school? Answer: The out of control teachers’ union.

            Socialism. Slowly destroying Western Civilization since the 19th century.

            Mal

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          • Kevin2 says:

            “Textile industry non-union? Huh? What are you smoking?”

            I stated:

            “either non union or low paying regardless if it was union or not”

            Note LOW PAYING…

            The US Textile Industry was (and the remainder is) low paying yet even that industry fled to slave labor wages in Asia. Note that the wages below were 2008. That industry was fleeing for well over a decade.

            I doubt that anyone would say the below are high wages that chased this industry out of the US. Actually the wages are at or below the poverty line for the most part outside of supervision.

            Table 4. Median hourly wages of the largest occupations in textile, textile product, and apparel manufacturing, May 2008
            Occupation
            Textile mills
            Textile product mills
            Apparel manufacturing
            All industries
            First-line supervisors/managers of production and operating workers
            $21.19
            $20.05
            $18.30
            $24.25
            Textile knitting and weaving machine setters, operators, and tenders
            12.42
            13.27
            10.48
            12.21
            Inspectors, testers, sorters, samplers, and weighers
            11.79
            12.17
            9.66
            15.02
            Textile winding, twisting, and drawing out machine setters, operators, and tenders
            11.27
            12.37
            10.79
            11.53
            Textile bleaching and dyeing machine operators and tenders
            11.18
            13.17
            9.65
            11.38
            Textile cutting machine setters, operators, and tenders
            10.96
            11.28
            9.36
            10.88
            Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers, hand
            10.87
            10.72
            9.60
            10.89
            Helpers–production workers
            10.60
            10.31
            9.08
            10.48
            Sewing machine operators
            9.61
            9.75
            9.03
            9.55
            Packers and packagers, hand
            9.46
            9.25
            8.98
            9.16
            SOURCE: BLS Occupational Employment Statistics, May 2008.

            “American workers deserve higher pay so long as they’re more productive, which is often the case.”

            Productive as compared to who? When compared to slave labor nations in a post “Free Trade”9and that is who they are up against) environment that’s very difficult standard. How does one beat 50 cents per hour; make 49 cents per hour.

            The US lowest paying US manufacturing jobs have or will leave because of the delta in labor compensation with it’s third world rivals. The US Steelworkers plants were going to close if they made 1/4 of their wages as the Textile Workers did.

            Simple question. Why did the US Textile Industry flee when the wages above are not excessive by any civilized standard? Please answer.

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          • alc says:

            Kevin2 it *is* equalizing, I think the average Chinese worker makes $200-$300 a month, and there are Americans getting by on that. I’ve made $175 so far in November and that’s a good November; usually I make nothing from November 1 until about April 1.

            Of course I live in 2nd world conditions too – and like it.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            AlC

            I know what it is. I also know the Preamble states the Mission Statement for the US Government and it is clear, “For Ourselves and Our Posterity” .

            The job of the US was not to “Equalize” us with the world. The Trade Agreements are doing just that. We had tariffs since the country was formed and they worked.

            As technology increases my standard of living should not drop but rise.

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          • Dave says:

            Textiles were heavily unionized with the needleworkers union among one of them.
            Not too many people know that automobile workers made more money before getting into unions than after.
            Henry Ford used to pay his workers $5/day which was serious money in the 20′s.
            He wanted his workers to be able to afford one of his cars.
            You’re forgetting that many businesses didn’t leave for cheaper labor markets in Asia, the unions put them out of business like US steel, GM, etc.

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          • Mal Reynolds says:

            Wages are only one factor in workplace productivity. Workplace productivity levels depend largely on employees’ motivation, the tools they have at their disposal and efficient use of resources. Effective leadership and management is also important, as is a positive work culture. American industry possesses all of these traits. American workers are efficient, relatively well educated, and tend to take fewer sick days. All of these traits make them highly productive, and can command a higher wage because of it. If wages were the only factor in production, then EVERYTHING would be made in China.

            The point, however, is that unions have forced labor rates above the equilibrium price and, generally speaking, have hindered productivity by… for example… protecting bad workers and demanding inflexible labor/plant rules.

            Here’s an anecdote: A friend of mine worked for US Steel in Pittsburgh back in the early 90s as an engineer. Several overhead lights were out in his office, but he wasn’t allowed to change the lights himself. If he did so, it violated union rules. He called the janitorial desk for TWO WEEKS asking for the bulbs to be replaced. Finally, in disgust, he slipped into the custodial closet, grabbed the replacement bulbs and replaced the bulbs himself. About a week later, he was called into his bosses office and officially censured for doing the work himself. No kidding. Apparently, at US Steel, you have to wait three weeks to get lights replaced, just so you can save some union goon’s job. Who cares if you go blind first? LMAO.

            Mal

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Unions chased businesses out of the US not the wage delta?

          One your right hand you have X per hour and on your left it’s .05 x X (5% for those not good at math). That is THE MOTIVATOR. If their Union or Non Union it’s their compensation and therefore relative productivity that chases companies to a cheaper (much) labor cost.

          It’s this simple. Businesses fled to take advantage of MUCH cheaper labor in every respect including benefits, environmental, safety, pensions. Period, established fact. It did not matter if you make $35 / hr or $10 / hr because it’s much higher then Chinese / Indian and now Vietnamese labor.

          The textile mills in the southern US states we’re largely non union. Regardless as I have shown their labor costs were low by civilized standards but we no longer compete with civilized people.

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          • crash and burn says:

            if it wasnt for the unions corporate greed would be worse than it is now. if it wasnt for unions it would be like living in china. so quit blaming the unions for the this mess……its corprate greed not the common blue collar workers….those of you that hate unions go to mexico or china and get yourself a cushy job.

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          • highspeedloafer says:

            Exactly right about textile mills in the south being mostly non-union. I am from Gaston co, NC, the largest textiles in the US pre capita. That was years ago of course. The worst tragedy to occur in our county was the Firestone or Loray mill strike where people died during union strikes.

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        • durango kidd says:

          Dave: I worked in the steel industry when I returned from Viet Nam, and was offered a management position, which I declined.

          The steel industry was not killed by the unions. Japanese industrialists came to the USA, viewed the steel making process here, then went back to Japan and built larger, modern, more efficient mills. By that time (early 70′s) most of OUR mills were old, except for a few specialty mills.

          Consequently the Japanese were able to capture a larger part of market share because “environmentalism” was conveniently used to shutter American steel plants: A globalist strategy to increase their wealth by moving steel manufacturing offshore.

          The steel industry moved to China and also to a lesser extent India, as part of the Plan by GHW Bush to re-industrialize China and create capitalism there. It had nothing to do with the “unions”.

          Don’t try to use “unions” as an excuse to promote globalism, free trade, and the exploitation of Chinese workers for $.50 an hour when half of their pay goes to buy food.

          It doesn’t work. Find a new excuse.

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          • Mal Reynolds says:

            DK:

            B-A-L-O-N-E-Y!!
            Unions killed the steel industry and the auto industry and they’ve corrupted our schools. If Obama gets his way, they’ll shortly start destroying the aircraft industry as well.

            Unions have made most of Europe uncompetitive as well. It’s not just here. It’s not an excuse. It’s a fact.

            I’ll let Biggovernment.com take care of the rest. I’ve got to get to my non-union job. If it was unionized, I’m sure I could show up late. But I digress…

            http://biggovernment.com/laborunionreport/2011/09/05/labor-day-the-union-tax-how-unions-kill-jobs/

            Mal

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          • durango kidd says:

            Sorry Mal: You are out of the loop on steel. I was there. I know.

            Globalization killed steel. Globalization was the process that turned the CCP into capitalists.

            Globalization was initiated under Reagan to thwart the Soviet Union. It did as We outsourced production of the MIC to Europe.

            After the Soviet Union fell, WE supported Russia with artificially high oil prices to prop up “democracy” and began an “exchange” with them to train managers and capitalists.
            I know. I was in Moscow in during the coup, counter-coup.

            Bush jr saved Russia from default and collapse again in 2000 with high oil prices too!

            In China, GHW Bush struck a deal with the CCP to try capitalism, like Russia. He then ordered the outsourcing of MIC products to Shanghai and other free economic zones.

            With the flow of some capital and revenue into China, the Premier declared that “wealth was glorious” and expanded “capitalism’ across the board including steel and manufacturing as they modernized their archaic steel plants that were not much more than a blacksmith’s shop with a warehouse and a fork truck.

            Environmental “concerns” were cited as one of the reasons that WE should allow steel to be offshored, when in fact it was about profits, not unions.

            Today, China dumps thousands of tons of mercury and sulpher into the air every day while they are making steel for their ghost cities, and it blows over here to US.

            So much for the environment and unions.

            As for the auto industry it was about quality. American cars were poorly designed, poorly manufactured, and inefficient.

            The next thing I expect to hear out of you is that Word Perfect and 1-2-3 lost out to Microsoft because they were a superior product. :-)

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    8. Dave says:

      The “something for nothing socialist promises” are coming home to roost and they will land hard!
      I am actually looking forward to this adjustment of reality since it will hit those that live off of the government the hardest.
      Let it fall!

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      • Kevin2 says:

        Dave

        Adjustment? Kayos, poverty, civil disorder…..You looking forward to that? You cannot be serious. Looking forward to that is madness.

        If the US Government falls under an economic collapse the successor government will be cruel. Nothing good comes from that. You think your going to find a pile of men like the Founding Fathers? That was a quirk of history. There is a far greater chance of a Hitler rising from that mess than a Thomas Jefferson.

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        • Dave says:

          You’re right about a not-so-pleasant government forming after some collapse, in fact, I fully expect it since the desperate mob who are acccustomed to living off the work of others will demand it.
          As long as we remain resolute in our desire to stay armed & free, a Hitler has little chance of success.

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          • You guys really have no hope, do you? Do you think we’ll let it devolve into something bad? NO! We will go BACK. There is only ONE DIRECTION THIS WILL GO and I and the other patriots on here will make sure it goes that way: TOWARDS THE CONSTITUTION. All you’re little boy whining is getting REALLY annoying.

            Poke the [RESET] button already! I’m tired of living under these cesspool conditions. We have a government that is nothing but a criminal gang backed by paper.

            Believe its going to be fine and do your utmost to make sure it will be.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            Dave

            You can have all the guns you want but they have the wealth (not only the wealth but the determination of the value of wealth) and resources. We don’t live in a Democracy or a Republic but rather an Oligarchy. No people on the earth truly govern themselves; not a one. The Dictators and Monarchs are up front about it. The rest it’s by stealth.

            Think Ron Paul is getting a fair shake?

            “Presidents are not elected their selected”.
            Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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          • Poke the [RESET] button already!

            This is getting really scary…twice in one week I agreed with NetRanger..

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          • JustMe says:

            I think I’ll change my last name to “Stalin”, has a nice ring to it…

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          • Kevin2 says:

            Dave

            Hitler was voted into power.

            Given an empty stomach people will rally around anyone that has a good chance of providing food and historically will throw others under the bus to get it. Let the media demonize anyone or group and it’s like the statement from Gobbels (spelling) : “If you repeat a lie loud enough, often enough and with enough force it becomes the truth in peoples minds”.

            A Hitler type has a very good chance of success in a post collapse economy. A Hitler touches emotion while a Jefferson appeals to logic. The masses bypass logic for emotion all the time; it’s easier, thinking is too difficult and time consuming. Thinking also requires some knowledge before hand. The previous “worshippers of the sphere” had no time for knowledge. It’s just bread and circus.

            Your opinion of your fellow mans respect for his fellow man is much higher then mine.

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        • Claymation says:

          Hey Kevin how are ya, you are correct that what comes after any form of major collapse will be very unpleasant and I am afraid that things like disease especially those that are airborne will be indiscriminate as to whether you spent the last five or ten years prepping or not. Dead is dead. Peace

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      • BEAR says:

        AND THE NOTHING FOR EVERYTHING FASCISTS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST TOO, LOOK AT WALL STREET AND DC

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      • Claymation says:

        Dave, I too have spent time saying “bring it!” I am just sick of the lies being pushed down our throats and the crimes being committed by those in power. I usually reconsider shortly after the thought and say “well next month I was going to buy just a little more food, or ammo. But I am guilty of thinking the exact same thought. Peace

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      • durango kidd says:

        Dave: Those that live off the government the hardest? lets see, that would be the 30 plus American multinational companies that paid NO income taxes on trillions of dollars of revenue;

        China, which is subdized by it most favored nation agreement with US to the tune of $300 billion a year;

        Mexico, which was subsidized $400 billion last year ($100 billion because of NAFTA and $300 billion to subsidize latinos illegals).

        Yeah, you’re right! let it fall!!! :-)

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    9. Kindle says:

      Great article Mac. I believe the people will hit the streets. The rioting and outrage of the American citizens will make the European and Mid-East riots look like childs play.
      America was asleep for too long but they are seriously beginning to wake up. What once made America great was the people and they will once again but we are going to go through some seriously scary stuff to reclaim the true America we once had.
      Want it to get here faster…then try messing with the internet or taking guns away. It will be in the elites face so fast they won’t know what hit them. The elites underestimate how pissed real Americans will get.
      I agree with SSPXER, but I believe silver will remain a barter item after TSHTF. There will be a bunch of nanny-staters that won’t know what to do or how to handle it. But hey, they wanted all the government control so let them eat shit when the government losses control of the situation. Real American will stand up and fight back….we’ve just been waiting and watching. Resting up and preparing for the inevitable.

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    10. Murt says:

      Bitechez best you get:

      Canned Food, Handguns, Ammo, Seeds and Silver!!

      Pronto!

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      • Gunsmith says:

        Hmmm….you’ve got it mostly right, I suppose. In reality, you’d best have a 12ga. pump, a semi-automatic center-fire of at least .223 caliber, plus plenty of high capacity 20/30 rd mags & some water purification equipment as well.

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    11. Mardochee augustin says:

      Many commentators on this blog type of martial law, silly. The US has 3 million military members, including the National Guard and Reserve. 20% of the 3 mil overseas at any one time, deployed somewhere or based in Japan, Korea, England, Germany, etc. Of the 3 mil, MOST are not combat troops (90% of the Air Force and Navy for example, plus staff officers and enlisted folks, logisticians, finance, etc.) The US military couldn’t maintain martial law in California alone, much less than the whole country. Besides, many of us wouldn’t round up our fellow citizens anyway.

      If there is a massive collapse and riots and burning, we’ll be more concerned with protecting our own homes and families, vs running around attempting martial law foolishness.

      If the cities do start burning, I hope you have the means to protect yourselves.

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      • Mardochee augustin says:

        It is logistically impossible to have martial law in America. Also with the rise of oathkeepers you will see alot of defectors. The Federal Government is not all that powerful anyway. If they were they would have let Wall Street collapse in 2008 and declare martial. Howwever they did not. They fear the power of the people. There is at least 80-200 million gunowners in the US(not including illegal arms). You think the feds can control this country. It will be the un organized militia who will keep the nation together not the Feds.

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        • SSPXER says:

          Not impossible if they bring in UN forces to help them.

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          • Mardochee augustin says:

            You really think if they bring UN peacekeepers that will fly to the American public? Also how are those peacekeepers doing in Africa and the middle east? They couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag. Also the US military would be violently against the idea of bringing foreign troops. If they bring UN force or any foreign forces in US soil it will be civil war and outright overthrow of the federal government. I will say it again it will lead to civil war. The Feds will not bring UN forces. It will be too much for the populace to take.

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          • ninaorket says:

            the u.n. smurfs are already here… in canada and mexico! most u.n. troops will be tasked to control the rockies regions and midwest states… the u.s. army/ u.s. m m m ma-rines wil be sent into the east and west coast major cities! any town that fights the feds will be bombed into submission by the u.s. air force and other u.n./ nato forces already stationed here stateside such as the sigaporean air force in mtn home idaho a.f. base… all lets not forget the u.n. already owns and controls the major u.s. parks… such as grand tetons, yellow stone and glacier park! thanks to imf cfr traitor bill clinton!

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          • SSPXER says:

            James Wesley Rawles book “Patriots” paints precisely such a scenario: Foreign UN troops on US soil attempting to take control and restore order.

            The idea seems plausible

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          • durango kidd says:

            The guy or gal with the most “blue helmets” at the end of the game is the winner! :-)

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          • The UN? Really? You’re kidding, right?

            Screw that! If they put the UN (or any other foreign military) on American soil in less than a week we’ll be using bullet ridden blue helmets to sift cat turds out of our cat litter. Well, thats the ones with bullet holes. The rest of UN troops better hope the edges of those helmets aren’t sharp! Me and the rest of the unorganized militia will be sure the ones not used for sifting cat litter are worn more like a seat cushion than a helmet.

            No, that pig isn’t going to fly anytime soon. TPTB know this. They know they’re stuck. Thank God for the founders and the second amendment.

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          • JustMe says:

            “People would reject UN tropps in Los Angles. But there will come a time, when they will welcome them.”
            -Henry Kissenger

            Personally, I doubt they will bother bringing in UN troops, the cattle will move as directed.

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          • Brad3000 says:

            UN Forces would be active at some point, I dont doubt but the US already has bi-lateral treaties with Canada and Mexico to supply military forces if the US asks for assistance to control insurection. This was a Foxx/Bush/Canadian PM deal around 2007, IIRC.

            Either way, if the population is against it the result will be bloody – unless they sell gun confiscation before to country because of some heinous event that has yet to be implemented. I cant see it working, regardless and I really get a cold feeling about Holder’s little ATF Fast & furious operations as a way of damning US stores and gun owners. There alot fewer stores now vs 15years ago – like about 70% less. The ATF has been very busy.

            It may also circumvent the old Posse Comitatus or whats left of it after PA I/II…
            http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/trebilcock.htm

            Brad

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          • Note to U.N. forces and ‘other’ tank operators…..
            If we get you in a wooded area and have a few chainsaws, when we box you in…you gonna get out??
            How long you gonna last in that tank??

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          • Gunsmith says:

            —WRONG ANSWER—

            When the collapse hits in full force, it “WILL BE GLOBAL” in scope!!!
            That means every govt on planet earth will have its own set of problems & are extremely unlikely to loan their jack-booted thugs to the US-ZOG regime (via/thru the UN), when their talents are required in their own countries.

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          • Mike C says:

            You can snipe powder blue helmets from a mile away!

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          • durango kidd says:

            I agree with MA. And if America is in chaos, you can bet your ass the rest of the world is too.

            There will only be enough military and police to control a few dozen major cities in America. The rest of the country will not be affected much at all.

            In Arizona, in the cities and towns outside of Metro Phoenix, We will still going to the marketplace, playing softball, fishing, and prospecting. That will be true over much of the West.

            People, there will be no economic “collapse” until the world turns.

            Rawles, while a good account of what life might be like after an EMP or Pole Shift, is FICTION.

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          • drmike says:

            We already have foreign troops on our soil, even chinese and russians.They are waiting for a signal event.

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        • greaseman says:

          you are forgetting one thing. There are many, many foreign troops in the US, training to do the job that our own troops don’t want to do. That’s basically shooting unruly Americans, and doing whatever they’re told to do. The foreign troops don’t have any problem following those orders, all given under the direction of the United Nations flag. If you do some checking, you;ll find that the authority for all this to happen is just a pen stroke away. Our national soverignity is gone and done with. it’s just a matter of time.
          That’s why there are some perilous times ahead. The government is getting their ducks in a row, as they know what’s coming.

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          • highspeedloafer says:

            That will sure make it a lot easier for us to shoot back then wont it. We will regain our soverignty.

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          • You start cracking down on the US with US Military (or the US Dilitary: Military minus the honorable ones) and it will be bad, but, the populace would just hesitate and whine and grumble. We might even shoot back some. But also, the US Military knows their rightful place and they’ll know they are transgressing the law of the land in being here. They would tend to tred more lightly on us.

            You put foreign troops on American streets and every American’s blood will BOIL. 100 million pissed off rednecks will bring everything from .22 rifles to 50 BMGs and everything else in between to their shoulders. If this were to happen, the US Government would lose all credibility and probably many lives as more and more patriots find parking places for their spitzers.

            Its a fantasy that will never come close to happening. TPTB know they only have to starve us out. The problem is, the ones they starve out won’t be the 100 million that they need to starve out to soften up the country. In fact, the process of elimination will actually make it worse for them. While TPTB are not stupid in some ways, they are blinded by their greed.

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          • PO'dpatriot says:

            The masses, hungry when offered food and possibly some small creature comforts that they once knew, will cave and submit.

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        • ScoutMotto says:

          Statutorily, we have already been under martial law in this country already since March 9, 1933. The one hope I have is that people see that OWS is showing us it’s ok to oppose those who would enslave us.

          Remember that the people today are very conditioned. They don’t think like you or me or anyone else who is aware of what the government is pulling. Some of the people will have no problem playing lapdog for the feds. They will gladly snoop on you and others who do not tow the party line.

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          • Since 1933? or since 1861? Wish I could get definitive information on this. I’m not sure that Martial Law was ever “repealed”, officially, after the civil war. (Which wasn’t civil and was not a war between the states but rather two separate unions of states.)

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          • Gods Creation says:

            Ranger, Congress ended session sine die (never to return) in 1861.

            The statutory “martial law” of the 1930′s is actually an international bankruptcy under the law merchant. It is that international law the bankers will try to enforce (with foreign troops most likely) when the actual “foreclosure” of the corp takes place. All statutes are private law. They are, in fact, copyrighted so the average guy can not use them for protection unless they first claim they are subject to them, thereby losing any rights they may have had.

            Ever wonder why judges don’t listen? The “person” arguing the case, usually without introducing any evidence at all to support their claim, is not licensed and therefore is in copyright violation of the statutes just by showing up in court and citing them.

            Martial Law was never repealed. The Civil War did not free the slaves, it enslaved the free (to the new federal corp the banksters created by force.)

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      • Kevin2 says:

        They don’t need to control the people directly. They need to just control the food and fuel. Bring in gold, silver and guns and you get food and heating oil. Turn in someone with contraband and you get a lovely roast and potatoes too.

        The people will do their dirty work. In survival mode people will throw others under the bus. Cities are easy to control; the occupants are dependent. They will have a problem in rural areas. Simple solution though. You give us X corn, wheat and animals or we Agent Orange your farms. We will start over there. Before they get over here the supplies will be lined up.

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        • alc says:

          They Agent Orange the farms, *no* one gets to eat. Also, tons of vets out here, tons of people who always figured they could built better IEDs than Hadji and will then have an excuse to try.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            No one?

            Read what I said. You comply with taxes of food or YOU don’t eat.

            Kissinger called the masses, “Useless Eaters” anyway.

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          • durango kidd says:

            80 million gun owners can restore the American Principles of government to this Nation without firing a shot!

            Engage.

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          • alc,

            Imagine the US Dilitary (Thats the US Military minus the real men and women that actually took their oath seriosly…) fighting educated, well fed, well supplied and highly motivated people instead of goat herders and camel jockeys that don’t know chemistry or anything about explosives (maybe not even literate). Can you imagine it?

            Afghan IED: Boom! Blows up a hummer and kills two of our guys.

            American IED: BOOOOOOOOMMMMM! Blows the whole UN Convoy. Axles, tires, engine blocks and bodies land 5 miles away in a large metro area.

            It can be done. I know guys that can and would do it. No, you can’t turn this country’s military on itself. TPTB try that and the tree of liberty will be hunting for a snorkel! …and mainly because of their own blood.

            Agent Oranging the fields for spite? Really? I can see my, uh hem, neighbors punching holes in a spray plane for entertainment. Oh, you’re going to escort the planes with military aircraft. Fine. They’ll just figure out who the pilot is. Hard to fly without hands. Look, you mess with farmers for long and you’ll realize, yeah, their mild mannered men of the land but you mess with their land, their livestock, their machinery or their families (Oh, Lord! Do *NOT* mess with their family!) and its just a little spooky what they’ll do. They’ve still got that pioneer spirit out there and they’ll turn into something that would make a junkyard dog go yelping around behind the shed!

            Its why you don’t have any trouble out in the country with terrorism. We don’t take kindly to that and we’ll hand your ass back to you in a feed sack and tell you how to get back to the highway.

            No, that kind of operation is laughable. US Farmers aren’t sheople.

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          • Gods Creation says:

            Kev2

            The corp can only control the processed foods. There are many other sources of food that God has put here for us.

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        • There’s just one problem Kevin2..if you are/were smart enough to obtain gold, silver and guns/ammo…I’d bet a banana pudding you are smart enough to store years of food and heating oil.

          Peace.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            Years?

            Doubtful. A year maybe. Time is on their side. Regardless your stores are finite.

            It’s best to become Amish. Learn some Old German and wander on to a farm. You will be out in the field in no time. It’s self sustaining.

            Second best thing is protect the Amish for food. Damn good baked goods. I can see them needing protection. They are non violent but believe me not stupid.

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        • Brad3000 says:

          Kevin2,
          Thats a grim and very “interesting” scenario.
          Its likely but it will escalate to civil war and eventually I think the military personnel will go AWOL.

          Hmmm… good extrapolation.

          Brad

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    12. Frosty21 says:

      I feel that when “it” happen’s.We will really be in for a shock.I do believe that it will be worse then all of are fear’s.I hope it won’t be as bad as ,I think.Keep prepping my Brother’s and Sister’s.

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    13. Fatty says:

      At this point ive decided screw the pm’s and bring on canned goods, freeze dried food and bottled water… Might even decide on keeping 100gallons of fuel on hand.

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    14. kevin says:

      Thank god the american nazi party “bund party” was dispanded years ago and we live in a free republic, with representatives, and keepers of the peace! My history book tells me these things! Go occupy walmart! Go back to sleep sheeple, nothing to see here, move along or I WILL taze your a$$!

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    15. kevin says:

      Oh, and open free elections (forgot about that)

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    16. Fatty says:

      I just checked drudge report. Few different articles over there as well.

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    17. kevin says:

      Oh, also forgot, innocent until proven guilty!

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    18. mclovin says:

      Hate to beat a dead horse on this issue but what does everyone consider to the best type and number of weapons in their shtf arsenal? I have a 5.56 M4, 7.62 SKS, 3.08 bolt-action, pistol-grip 12 gauge, and two .40 S&W semi-automatic handguns. I’m open to suggestions as to what else I need to add to my force protection level.

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      • You’ve got a nice setup right there… Of course, you can never have too many weapons or too much ammo, but finances always seem to get in the way of that… The only thing I Guess I would recommend would be to add a .22 rifle, maybe a 10/22 and perhaps a solid pellet gun… My reasoning here is strictly for training, as the ammo is super cheap… When the shtf you still want to keep up your shooting skills, but definitely to do it on the cheap and in the case of the air gun, quietly…. 22 ammo is so cheap you can stock 10000 rounds for roughly $400 or so…pellets even cheaper…plus, 22lr is, from what I understand, the most popular caliber in America, which means you might be able to barter that ammo if need be.

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        • mclovin says:

          Thanks Mac, us Texans gotta stick together.

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          • I was just out in your neck of the woods yesterday at the Texas Renaissance Festival… Though there were no firearms to be found, there were some pretty sweet swords that I am seriously considering adding to the arsenal if I can find a local martial arts expert who is willing to train me.

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          • PO'dpatriot says:

            Mclovin, good advice from Mac on the .22 cal. I would however give serious consideration on something other than the .40′s. A PITA to reload and unless you have a good store of ammo already, a hard caliber to find in a shtf scenario. JM2CW.

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          • Daisy says:

            I’m a big time sword fan, Mac!!! I like the fact that they are silent and very intimidating, particularly a broadsword. It is my favorite because it’s sharp on both sides. They also look lovely and decorative hanging on the wall. :)

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        • Eagle 71 says:

          Agree Mac.

          In addition to the Ruger 10/22, the Ruger Mark-series pistols are excellent handguns, and bargains are still to be found. I got a Mark I pistol a year ago for $100. Needed a firing pin and spring and a couple extra mags, and it was good to go.

          The .22 rifle is great for hunting small game too.

          Don’t forget to also stock up on spare parts for these firearms. A broken gun is a paperweight, and if you can fix them, that’s a great skill to have.

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          • Random Tangent 1957 says:

            @ Mac :
            I was at the Ren Fest on Sunday…looking at swords as well. If you find a good teacher let me know. There was a guy there at the fest that did a School of Sword presentation that was very interesting. Don’t know what he does in the off season. I do like the idea of being able to vanquish intruders without making a lot of noise.
            The less you draw attention to your location…the better.
            Montgomery County Texas

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            • cool deal — mainly i was checking out the Japanese swords and such.. Not so much the knight-swords (which were pretty cool too!)… For all we know we were hanging out right next to each other drinking mead!

              If I find anyone in the area that trains sword / knife fighting I will pass on the info (after I’ve had a chance to give it a try to make sure it is legit training).

              Thanks!

              Mac

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        • I concur 100% with Mac.

          The air gun route is a good one too. But, you can get the same noise reduction and performance with CCI CB longs. You can get some good break-barrel air guns that will drive a 20gr 22cal pellet 800 ft a second. Almost silent. Good for small game at 100ft.

          In 22s, there are at least 5 different loadings:

          CB – 600fps and less. Very quiet. Good to 100ft for small game and plinking. However, they’re not cost effective. Abt double the cost of standard ammo.

          CB+ – 700-800 fps. Less noise but not nearly as quiet as CB. Better performance. Can be used at 50yds but is pretty weak. Also not cost effective for plinking.

          Standard or Subsonic – 900 – 1100 fps. Generally good up to 100yds with varying results. Still more cost than Hi-Speed ammo but 25% the noise.

          Hi-Speed – 1200-1300 fps This is mostly what you shoot. They’re cheap. $40 per 1000. 4c each. But, they’re noisy as they are super sonic and make a loud *CRACK* when shot. The actual muzzle report is very little more than standard or subsonic but that sonic boom is, well, annoying. If you’ve got a good rifle, you can nail stuff at 100yd fairly reliably. About 4 in of drop but you can usually compensate for that. Windrift is another matter.

          Hyper speed – 1500-1900 fps Normally a lighter bullet. Does deliver more punch but sometimes drastically less accurate. I’ve shot several different brands. Stingers are popular. I find them to be very much more powerful but woefully inaccurate in anything I use. Short range secondary self defense apps maybe.

          Other than a 22 for special apps, I think the rest of your armory is in good order. Just make sure you have at least 500 rounds of each caliber. I’ve got 8000 rounds of 22 and climbing. Can’t see any reason to stop over buying. They keep forever if you keep them cool and dry and you’ll use them or trade them (or your grandkids will).

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          • yental says:

            Over buying ammo in a caliber appropriate to your “means” is an oxymoron. The more the better. PERIOD.

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          • The Benjamin Marauder PCP .22 has a 10 round mag, operates on 3000PSI, is bolt action and is the most quiet air rifle I have ever owned. For a test, a buddy went down range about 30 yards and stayed low. [DO NOT TRY THIS UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND HAVE A LOT OF TRUST WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE DOING IT WITH, even then, it's not a good idea. Yes, we are bat shit crazy sometimes when we test this kind of stuff.]

            Anyway, I had a full charge of 3000 PSI and placed several shots to his left at a target another 10 yards downrange. From my perspective, the gun makes a small puff sound with a light spring twang. From his perspective, he heard nothing but the zing of the pellet racing by at 1000FPS. So basically, this Benjamin is the silent but deadly projectile launcher I’ve always wanted.

            My point to this reply is that in a time when silence is golden but you still need to eat, this air rifle won’t let you down. It is literally a true whisper with zero pop, except when it hits the target, which is minimal.

            The new air rifles are not what they once were, i.e., almost toys. This technology has evolved light years beyond what was available when I was a kid. In a survival situation for food, stealth, and probably other uses, this rifle is my first pick. I do keep the real deal(s) around for other uses and various calibers, but this is my favorite tool for being quiet.

            http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin_Marauder_Air_Rifle/1774

            No, I do not work for PyramydAir, or Crosman/Benjamin, I have owned one of these for about 3 years now and it has become one of my favorite rifles. I installed a 16×50 scope and have the single shot insert for heavier pellets. I would also recommend and have the hand pump. If you’re a diver or real enthusiast like myself, get an extension line with a fill station and a dive tank or two, or three. If you do not have access to high pressure refilling, forget the dive tank set-up and go with the hand pump only.

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      • SSPXER says:

        Here’s my 2 cents:

        1) Primary combat rifle in .308: PTR-91 KF (You will hit man-sized targets at 500 yards; longer if you are good. They can be finicky with ammo, but all PTR variants do very well with cheap Russian surplus ammo (without which I would not shoot .308 at all because of the expensive ammo.

        2) Primary combat rifle in 7.62×39: Yugo M70 AK-47. Yes, you heard that right. Imported/assembled by Century arms. Century gets a bad rap, and in many cases it is deserved. But on the Yugo AKs, the primary flaw is a canted front sight, which can be fixed by any gunsmith (or by yourself) in 10 minutes. For 1/4 the price of a .308 you will hit man-sized targets at 200 yards, and if your cabin is in the woods where you will not get long shots anyway, you are wasting your money on a .308. Also very reliable without regular cleaning (though you should still clean regularly). Also performs well with cheap Russian surplus ammo.

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      • freeport56 says:

        Slugs for your shotgun, instant .50 Caliber. Ammo, lots of ammo. Prayers, for yourself and fellow Americans. Because it will not be pretty when it happens!

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      • JustMe says:

        Yeah, nice hardware, but in reality, what can you carry, use, move on foot, and live in the dirt with? That is what really counts…

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      • Mike C says:

        Yo mclovan, a nice Rugar bolt action 22 with plenty of Winchester 555 box ammo.

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      • mclovin says:

        Thanks everyone for the tips, I’m thinking .22 and a pellet rifle are definitely good additions. I’m sure I’m not the 1st to ever say this but I think a survival arsenal should be a like a golf bag: few people can survive 18 holes with just a driver and putter.

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    19. kevin says:

      Oh forgot also,”secure in their persons,houses,papers, and effects aginst unreasonable search and seizure” FEAR MONGERS! FEAR MONGERS! WE have the constitution to protect us from any marshall law! THE AMERICAN NAZI PARTY(bund) WAS DISBANDED YEARS AGO! The cops just can’t invade my house like some jack booted nazi without a warrant! SEE the constitution SAYS they can’t! Did I say I was glad the american nazi(bund) party was disbanded years ago? Oh yeah I did!

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      • greaseman says:

        I hate to burst your bubble, but do some checking on the current legislation the US Senate is considerring right now. it basically does away with any civil rights, and turns over control of the citizens to the military. AND, they don’t need ANY warrents, or probable cause to do any search or seizure, and basically can do anything they want. Your Constitutional rights will be a thing of the past. It’s all just a pen stroke away. I’m sorry I had to burst your bubble, but those are the facts.

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    20. kevin says:

      Amendment 3 says none of those fema “officials” can stay at my house! Hope motel 6 doesn’t get burnt down! Where would they stay for gods sake! Only nazi’s would just kick people out of their houses. No bund party here, we live in a free republic!

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      • Kevin2 says:

        SIf Uncle sam faithfully honors the 3rd Amendment if and when it has a desire (NEED for the Courts) to not do so it will be a first.

        “Oops, sorry, no 2nd, 4th, 5th or 6th and were not fond of the 10th either but we’re going to respect the 3rd”. LOL

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    21. crash and burn says:

      Where’s RICH99??? Here’s your sign. hahahaha

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    22. SoapDish says:

      EU is nothing, but a way to take over countries without firing a single shot. They want a collapse so they can put forth total One World, One microchip currency! Control the masses by food, water, and if you want to buy, you have to play by their rules. It’s going to get very ugly as the days and months go by. Those that see it, know whats coming. There are many that refuse to believe, because they want things to stay the way they are. The fools have went out to spend on Black friday and who’s to say that the collapse will not happen now that people spent beyond their means? If anything, they should of been buying life saving essentials, not foreign made crap, unless it”s ammunition;) Lets hope for the best and prepare for the worst!
      Keep your powder dry!
      SD

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    23. kevin says:

      Do you think the bail amount, to get out of one of those fema camps will be exsessive, like a million dollars or so? Because I don’t have that in cash! NO FEAR, we have the 8th amendment! We live in a free republic, WE HAVE THE RULE OF LAW! Bund party disbanded. That one ship that got us into ww1, wasn’t carrying munitions, no, it was crrying loly pops. Remember people, remember what bj clinton said ” it depends on what the defenition of is is is”

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    24. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      I know its coming and when it gets here I’m really going to be pissed off. Even the mainstream media is starting to freak out about the recent & coming inflation.

      I see Western societies looming collapse happening for several reasons.

      1. Socialism doesn’t work
      2. Terrorism has cost western societies literally multiple trillions of dollars that they don’t have (wars, tsa gropers, body scanners, homeland security, etc etc etc). Yes, the terrorists ARE winning. We are collapsing ourselves economically to protect ourselves from them.
      3. Government pensions, unions & benefits
      4. Wars. Wars. Wars.
      5. Self centered citizens spending themselves into oblivion
      6. Govt intervention into private markets (think housing mkt collapse).
      7. When you pay people NOT to work, they don’t.
      8. Crooked govt employees and politicians. (think obama. Giving OUR money to his friends at Solyndra even though he knew they were not going to make it)

      We are so screwed.

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      • Horace says:

        Bingo. And you forgot to add…

        9. The terrorism (most of it) staged/allowed by our own government to enact the collapse and bring about social control to keep themselves on the capstone of the pyramid scheme.

        10. The realization that the left-right political spectrum is a contrived illusion meant to keep us choosing one side and supposedly conflict with the other… again, just what they want so they can make collapse and control happen.

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      • BEAR says:

        YOU FORGOT NUMBER 1 FASCISM DOES’NT WORK THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE NOW

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      • greaseman says:

        you are so right. we are totally screwed. The powers that be are fast pushing everone up against a wall, and backing everone else into a corner. You can figure out the rest.

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      • RandomTangent1957 says:

        Mr B : you are correct SA usual ! All we can do is prep & hang on for the ride ! Montgomery County Texas

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    25. Brad3000 says:

      Excellent analyses by SSPXER.
      Thanks & muchly appreciated.

      I still warn that to survive the coming Big Crunch, you need to have a group and retreat location in place and up & running. The reality is most of us cant afford it…

      So the Plan B as I see it is your local community & neighbours in the urban setting. You best make them your allies as a father with 2 hungry little kids will turn into the most dangerous creature on Earth.

      I created a 40pg white paper for my HOA Board on “Disaster Management Protocols” that covered tornados thru to CME power grid
      outages (they wanted a Yugo but I gave them an Audi). In it, I worked out scenario procedures for community protection and voluntary resource sharing/management/allocation. It was well recv’d and I now have a 5K budget for 2012.

      I suggest anyone living in urban developments approach their BODs and ask about this issue. If yours is Gated, then you are one step ahead of the game, but it may also make you a target later.

      The other benefit is to raise the Awareness Level for Preparedness for disasters or Emergency Events – food water etc for 60days.

      Brad

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      • alc says:

        Yep, make friends with your neighbors, identify the “bad eggs” to be dealt with later, try to build up a network of people around you, and everyone needs to do this.

        If it’s the slow, fairly steady downgrade I think it will be, more people will be gardening, keeping animals, doing their own carpentry etc., which means more people talking to each other asking/giving advice, helping each other out. exchanging favors etc. Right now most of the population is still involved in the money economy and their TV sets.

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        • Daisy says:

          I hope you are right about that, Alc. I’m working hard to become more self-sufficient and it would be wonderful if there was time for my learning curve.

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        • fiftyfiver says:

          Good Stuff tonight BUT so URGENT its edgy. Rightly so I’m prepared to say. Thinking again that problem is global BUT the solution is LOCAL; getting together with your neighbors for food production and defense is the best proposition. Every wonder about all those walled towns and villages in Europe? A good model for the return to historical standards. PEACE !

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      • Dale says:

        Your list of protocols sounds intriguing. Is there a way to share it? I might approach my HOA with something like this if I can do it without sounding like a nut job. Brad, thanks for the post. And SSPXR and Mac, I really enjoy the material (that sounds wrong when the subject material is so dire). Anyhow, keep it up, many are reading and never comment.

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        • Dale, Brad is making this available for download in the near future. I am happy to provide you with his direct contact information (and anyone else who may be interested). Please shoot me an email via the contact link.

          Thanks.

          Mac

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      • Fatty says:

        Hey brad, would that 40 pg bible be digitally available?
        :)

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      • durango kidd says:

        Brad3000: Do you have a link for US to download your protocols?

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    26. Brad3000 says:

      An after thought – power generation when the Grid offline…

      Solar panel prices have halved in the last 12months.

      It is not cost effective but it can be “Emergency Effective” to set up a small solar power system that will keep your freezer, lights & any shortwave communications going. There is still a 30% tax break on ALL parts of the setup incl installation. Dont touch the “Solutions from Science” packages as its overpriced and underpowered. Wind is also limited in output, small scale.

      You need 3 things -
      4 x 240watt panels minimum ~$1600 (~1000watts/hr x sun hours)
      1 x MPPT charge controller ~$500
      8 x solar batteries (optional for overnight power) ~$1400

      Total = $3500 creating a $1050 tax deduction for the base unit,
      but you will need to add wiring costs too…

      Something to consider…
      LP Generators are also an option.

      Refs:
      http://http://www.affordable-solar.com/
      http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/

      Brad

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      • Kevin2 says:

        Brad

        How many watts or amps at that 240V for that $3500?

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        • Brad3000 says:

          My Apologies All!

          I cannot believe I forgot to include the 2nd most important component of the system – the invertors. These add about $800-1500 for a good(pure sine wave) unit in the 1000-2000watt arena. They are matched to the max output from the solar panels. Invertors come in both output voltages and are Grid-Tie or Off-Grid.

          The small system I outlined before would in effect be OG with batteries. It would not be permanently wired into the house directly but need power cords run to specific loads.

          Kevin2,
          Are you are in the UK or Australia by any chance ? :-)
          Std forula is Watts = Volts x Amps but panel output varies by manufacturer so its hard to work generically.
          I have the Kyocera 240watt PVs which are rated at 30v/8amps DC. 3 panels in series gives you ~80v at 8amps or in parallel 30v and 24amps DC, into your invertor to be stepped up to 110 or 240volts.

          My design for household power is Off-Grid for one very obscure hardly known reason – the power companies require your GT solar power system to shutdown automatically if the Grid is down… a completely useless situation from my POV. Its a safety issue as they dont want to risk power being sent back to the Grid while they may be working in your area.

          Bottom line is you cannot use GT even with batteries (GT Enhanced)if the Grid is down – the very time you will want to use it…

          Brad

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          • Kevin2 says:

            I’m in the US. Thanks for the reply.

            Those figures are less than 1 HP (746 watts).

            I have some knowledge having been a power operator then supervisor for almost 30 years. I prefer mechanical to electrical probably because I understand it better. Given an opportunity I would look for a climate that does not go below freezing and is usually windy. Obtaining 5 HP (3.7 KW , 33 Amps @ 110V) is at least something to work with for basic refrigeration and a limited amount of civilization. Not being effected by the night is a benefit but wind can be at times too much of a good thing. Someone wants to take it away from you and one well aimed shot and kiss the turbine good by.

            I toyed with the thought of hydro but the days of just putting in your own dam with environmental permits (permits, permits, permits…life is a series of permits) is pretty much out of the question. A 1000 GPM at 20 ft / head has a power capacity of almost 4 HP. Of course that’s at 100% efficiency. Regardless you get a nice pond for fishing, possibly increased security and a system that is not bullet bait.

            They are all ideas as my health is not 100%.

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          • durango kidd says:

            I bought an inverter at Harbor Freight to change the 12 volts from my truck engine to generate 120 volts at 1200 to 2400 watts. I would think they could be converted for use here.

            100 federal reserve notes.

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          • Gunsmith says:

            Where can one find “true sine-wave inverters”?

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    27. Kent says:

      Mclovin, I’m not sure what would be the best. Any, for starters. A .22 you can’t go wrong with, deadly if aimed well. Seconds on 22LR being legal tender……I do have a Savage .22 bolt action, a 7.62 by 54 Mosin, a Marlin .44 Mag lever action rifle, which one to be used based on need and of course, availability. Also two twelve gauge pumps, one a Mossberg 500, two .45 ACP semi autos and a .357 mag revolver. Not to mention a few thousand rounds and shells sitting about. I haven’t been able to go out shooting and the stuff just sorta’ grew on me. More than I would care to try to lift anyway.
      What I wanted was different power ranges. Meaning I need a lighter pistol…..saw a double barreled .410, a real cute little beast. I’m not a long distance shooter, but considering likely scenarios it may not matter much for me.
      What I need are people to field them. My wife is terminally ill, weak, my daughter presently cannot walk, unfamilar with guns. Fortunately I live in a small town of forty-eight hundred souls in the central valley of California, farm country. Most everybody here owns guns of some sort or another. Salt of the earth type souls. Twelve gauges are the best in my mind……versatile, powerful and deadly. The best gun is one you like and need. I’d love to get my hands on a 7.62 by 39…..
      I do this because I cannot run, my wife and daughter both non ambulatory, so I must stand my ground here in town. I do have arrangements with other gun head friends to make their way here when TSHTF. I have what it takes to feed people, etc.
      Buy a twenty two, maybe rifle and pistol, make sure the pistol handles long rifle…….and buy tons of ammo. A lot of dead guys can vouch for their effectiveness. Not to mention trying to pack around, say five hundred rounds of 7.62 would get real old real fast. A twenty two it is easy.

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      • DesertRatJak says:

        Kent & Mclovin, The ‘which is best?’ argument has been going around since there was more than one caliber and type of firearm available. Here is my humble opinion.
        Any firearm you have is the best one. Your best (and one true) weapon is your brain. Anything you choose to use is just a tool. Generaly, the bigger the weapon and caliber the more damage done. Some cannot handle the larger weapons due to age, size, health, etc. So you use the biggest one you can. People have survived hits from a .50BMG while, as Kent said, many dead can attest to the lethality of the lowley .22.
        Whatever you have, learn it, train with it, stock up ammo for it. Become as proficeient with it as you can. I don’t just mean hitting the bullseye. Tactics, malfunctions, support hand only shooting, etc.
        Get professional training if you can. Kent, you say you are not able to move much and the family not at all. Learn your house and surrounding area. Look for the best places to defend from. Harden what you can. Force maurauders to go where you want to give you the advantage. Almost any plan is better than none.
        Good luck and May God Bless.

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      • Brad3000 says:

        Agreed !

        22LR Remington Yellow Jacket in a their 100rd plastic box being my preference for ~$6.50/ea. MHO, it will make very good barter. Buy a few cases.

        So will 223, Natchezss.com has 1000rd boxes of M855/SS109 steel AP for $354 at the moment. Way sweet if you can line up 3 attackers at once… shoot-thru’s count as the wife always says, but you cant use it at most public or indoor ranges.

        The other standard calibers I use are 9mm, 45acp, 308Win and FN57. 2000rds per cal is not unheard of and some of my neighbours are into 5digits! Hoarding is a great pass time… and dont forget 1000rds of Fed 12g Tactical OO Buck (9pellet) HE or LE13200 !!

        Did I mention reloading… !?

        Brad

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    28. dreamer8280 says:

      Better stock up on food and supplies, at least 6 mos and more if you can. Look at what happened on Black Friday over $2.00 waffle irons at Walmart and other fights and pepper spraying for sale items all over the country. Imagine how terrible sheeple will act when they are fighting over food and there are riots at the stores!

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    29. RICH99 says:

      they have supposedly been preparing for this for years . this is nothing new

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    30. “If it so happens that Europe does collapse as we forecast, and capital flees to the safety of the US dollar (thus boosting the dollar’s strength and causing a stock market meltdown)…”

      That could be happening now. The dollar is at 79.6. That is the highest I’ve seen in a while. Want to know why your gas prices and stock prices are going down? Take a look:

      http://50.104.209.208/.w/2011/11/00_ino_dollar.latest.png

      A friend of mine keeps that fresh on his server. The URL changes occasionally if his IP changes. There are other things in there too.

      The entire week, the dollar was going UP, UP, UP. Gold and silver stayed the same in dollars which means the actual value of gold and silver went up. What are we to think? I’m thinking its nearly time to cash out of the 401Ks and 403Bs and put them into silver. Maybe not quite yet but we are very close. I am examining it on a day by day basis.

      So, if the dollar becomes strong again won’t this be incentive for the Chicoms (and whoever else that knows this can’t go on forever) to hit the Dollar Eject button? I mean, this would be an opportune time to cut it loose and get the most they can for the dollar. That activity would absolutely drive it into the mud and REALLY screw those that fled from the Eurozone to the dollar, but, its a dog eat dog (or a corp eat corp) world out there, right?

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      • durango kidd says:

        NetRanger: The smart money will move to gold, not silver. Gold will spike when Israel hits Iran. Sell your basis when it spikes, keep the rest.

        That could happen at anytime, but probably not until Assad has his hands full with a no fly zone, fully armed insurrection, Turkey troops coming across the border, and Arab League troops moving in from Jordan to seal the fate of Hezballa.

        Intelligence reports that I get suggest this situation with Israel and Iran will not last past the first quarter of next year. It could happen sooner rather than later.

        Its time to cash out.

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      • greaseman says:

        it was time a long time ago to cash out. You better do it now. when the real panic starts, the markets will close, not allowing anyone access to their funds. it’s just a matter of time.

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      • Kevin2 says:

        The people that figured this out from Breton Woods through the oil peg were very sharp. If the world economy dips then manufacturing and consumer demand drop taking the price of oil with it. At that point more money can be injected into the economy without the risk of too much inflation. Once economic activity increased interest rates could be raised to slow money velocity and cool inflation. Like sugar it’s tasty and too much of it is no good. The Chinese bought into this game and are holding a ton of US Treasury Bills. If they hold them they watch them depreciate. If they dump them they could never release a fraction before sending the rest in a free fall. If the USD collapses everyone gets hurt bad including China. All that production for nothing, nothing except a lot of industrial capacity of course.

        One can bet on an increasing supply of USDs and higher prices for everything. The rate of the climb is however debatable.

        I would not be surprised if the goal of the power elite is to have the USD as the global (not reserve but literally global) currency. Go around the globe and use the military to install governments to do our bidding and then freeze the currency exchanges allowing only the US to be the world supplier of money. Use overseas productivity (like the oil peg) to govern the supply of money with MIC to be the enforcer in case someone wants to leave the global game. People around the world can hold native currency that have birds, flowers and pictures of local heros but in reality with a frozen currency exchange and one issuing supply it’s in essence US Dollars (USDs) in multiple denominations.

        There is an almost mad grab for control of everything. Something is up.

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        • Kevin2,

          Hmm. Some real food for thought here. Instead of a new global currency, just force them all to use the one they’ve got and continue to destroy it and rob them. Wow! Its even more crooked, evil and dishonest than going to a global currency other than the dollar. …and, as such, even more likely with these criminal bastard thieves running amuck.

          As far as your “something is up” comment, the rumor has it that the power elite have some kind of deadline they must meet. Not sure what it is. The end of the age on Dec 21, 2012?

          I just hope I can stay out of their way and survive until its time to put things back together.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            NetRanger

            I been thinking about this for a while and it makes the most sense to me.

            The power elite need the US military to ultimately enforce their rule. The MIC is so interwoven into the government it is for all practical purposes the government. What system can maintain this order they need so badly? Why go around the world taking on global military responsibilities that other nations had the ability to handle themselves? Why make them so dependent unless there is a reason? Why rock the boat and have some other economic system when you can just expand what you have (and have control of). Why no care about deficits?

            The US sub contracts manufacturing and becomes the money manufacturer and economic manipulator of the world. When we need more weapons to enforce our rule the very peoples ruled de-facto pay for it. The small nations that step out of line get crushed. The big powers that play ball get cut in on a “piece of the action”. If they decide to go it alone they are just that, alone, isolated, outcast. The big weapons are too great to use without MAD and in the end it’s much easier to just go along.

            The summits of the G20 and BB Group meetings are closer to some organized crime meeting (Crime? What crime? We write the laws and determine what crime is and what it is not) then real political / economic meetings or is it visa versa?

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    31. Daisy says:

      I read this article and cringed. I betcha my contingency plan and the government’s contingency plan are two very different critters.

      While MY plan consists of laying low and staying away from as many people as I can, the government’s plan likely consists of rounding up all the stray people and herding them into cubicles in a FEMA camp.

      I need to make a contingency plan for evading the government’s contingency plan.

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        • JustMe says:

          I geuss I’m lucky you did’nt accept my propsal. You’d prolly just pawn my AK to buy one of those cross-bow thingies. I leave the seat down, anyway, gurl that I am. ;)

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          • ninaorket says:

            ;0P pssszzt

            hi ;0) @just me… love your posts by the way… we are of the same mind on most things! kudoo’s and my respect to you! ;0)

            keep the ak , my first shot will always be my crossbow… i’d prefer to keep things quiet… crossbow or blade or axe/ hammer!

            and then my manual loading rifle or revolver… auto’s will get you killed and waste ammo in a shtf scenario!

            personally i’m only sticking around town long enough to load my gear and i’m heading back country!

            I’d rather deal with some others like myself in the woods than stick around town waiting for the NWO FEDS/ UN troops or Local WannaBe in Charge FeMa reps come a-knockin at my door.

            a two room dug-out can be built within 2 days and will serve me just fine where i live and offer better protection and warmth then most modern structures with 20 inches of packed earth on top… that’s worst case scenario folks.

            most likely the stock market will die slowly in spurts over the next 6 to 36 months , hyper-inflation and then a global war… the russians and chinese will not allow imf cfr tri-lateral amerikan bankers and britain bankers to control them… the end result will be global war.

            harden your homes/ apts – beware of thieven’ landlords with keys to your home, buy lead, food and then some 1 troy ounce silver from a reputible pm seller for trade and to store your wealth. gold will just get you robbed an killed by local predatory scum.

            it’s going to be a slow banker controlled demolition, keep prepping and the stuff above was in response to @ms. daisy’s previous story question… as she can’t have actual firearms.

            arm up stock up prepare
            predator or prey the choice is yours…

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        • Daisy says:

          Nina – I replied on the other post regarding the weapons you suggested. I am worried about the practicality of a cross-bow. A.) I’ve never used one, so I am not confident with it, and b.) In a small downtown home, I’m not sure I would have enough room to maneuver with it. Opinions?

          Sorry, I am afraid I won’t be joining you in a hole in the woods, Nina. I kinda hate peeing outdoors. ;)

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    32. Carolie(uk) says:

      Plans my arse. I was in the centre of Croydon, London when it all kicked off a while back, there were not enough police to even attempt to deal with it, no one gave a fiddlers fart about what bit of law was there, we are still making police redundant and there is a hold on recruiting. There is not a hope in he’ll of this being dealt with the next time.

      It was terrifying I hope never to go through that again, I will of course , we all will sadly but I have to tell you it is even worse than you think it will be.

      We were in a pub emptying the spirits down the sink because they were stealing them to use as Molotov cocktails to throw at the police and anyone else they didn’t like. Madness.

      Take are x

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      • Gunsmith says:

        Thanks for the “eyeballs on the ground intel-report” Caroline, as usual the lame stream propaganda networks here in the US mostly glossed over the riots in Britain.

        I have family over there, approx 30-45min from Oxford. I lived in the UK for almost 8 years, in a small hamlet named Beck Row, back in the ’70s. T’was a very enjoyable period of my life.

        Best Regards (aka “cheerio”)

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    33. Kevin2 says:

      Daisy

      “I need to make a contingency plan for evading the government’s contingency plan.”

      I Love it. Humorous honest factual truth.

      The often read, “I have a million rounds of ammo and I’ll hold them off” is not too bright; better fortresses fell like Corregidor, Wake Island and the Alamo. The stay low and be off the radar screen is the way to go.

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      • Ditto. The ammo is for trade and emergency defense only. …and practice. Never fight if you can hide or run. You only fight if you’re backed in a corner. …and then you snipe first, shoot and scoot style before you do full open fire engagement. I’m not military but I know how this game works. But, I pray that it never comes to that.

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        • yental says:

          It will eventually come to that, and the strategy outlined will eventually “win the day”.

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          • I hope so. I find it much more effective and more ammo conservative when parking 55gr spitzers.

            Accuracy is supreme, to me. Lead downrange only counts if it hits what you’re aiming at. Otherwise its a waste and it gives away your position. I’m afraid most of the people I talk to like to use lead launchers instead of rifles.

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      • Daisy says:

        I’d prefer to live to fight another day!

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    34. Experienced says:

      There were a number of other people / sites that predated your predictions and where it is all leading by several years. None of them are bothering to remind their readers of this fact.

      Most have gone silent now on the so-called news, deliberately. There is little point in “telling” more of the news as you have done, as it is really simply too late to do anybody any good now. Those that have already know that they’ve reached the important people. The rest of you are still sheep (read on). You still need your ears tickled, but to what end, I do not know (other then to be fleeced).

      People are easily misled into believing that being “informed” is the same thing as activism, or being aware or even involved. It becomes a placebo for preparation and activism in other words.

      This site is like many others, trying to engage their readers but offering them nothing real in return. Endless reams of information is not “the answer” that everyone assumes. Knowing even more of what is going to happen, or what is happening, does not actually make you better off. Or fix what is wrong. This is a misconception that is being practiced by almost all websites and blogs who like this one, are engaged in the profitable “business” of shoveling an endless stream of articles about “what’s going on”.

      The real agenda becomes encouraging readers to buy stuff. This is why there is all the advertising on sites like this one. But this too is leading nowhere in reality (other then making some people fat profits). Those that bought stuff are still silently sitting on their asses waiting for the other shoe to drop. They’re sheep, still looking for a shepard to tell them what to do. They’ll never be anything but sheep in reality because they lack the insight into how they are being manipulated.

      The truth is the people involved in “warning Americans” are actually only doing this for the money. This is a pure and simple fact, as evidenced by all of their incessant advertising.

      Ye shall know them by their fruits.

      Only those that do not advertise, do not promote hype and propaganda, do not seek fame, fortune, recognition or a following of any type are actually authentic and trying to make a difference. Some have paid jobs as writers, many more of them do not. But they’re not trying to “sell” anything.

      This site does not even remotely qualify on any of these conditions. I am obviously not a fan of yours, because I find your incessant need for profits dramatically outweighs your honesty and integrity. If you were for real, you would do the right thing and stop promoting “stuff” over substance. You’d also be active, engaged in fixing what is wrong.

      So what do we have? Another site shoveling the same stuff as every other similar site and ultimately, offering nothing but infotainment, passed off as “essential information” while making big profits.

      But where is the leadership? Where is the activism? Where is the direction? Absent. If it be absent, then what do we really have? Illusion and nothing more, passing itself off as “solutions”.

      Most sites like here are promoting the “run and hide” notion. Buy stuff (from you of course, or your affiliates) and then “hunker down” while it all falls apart. The notion is you’ll be “better prepared” which is actually a lie. How can you be better prepared by letting it all fall apart? Or taking a defensive do-nothing position? If your country collapses, then of course you will too. How can you be better off then?

      I can also tell you from experience that every single one of your advertisers is a thief, making huge sums of money off of those that they allege to help. If that is not thievery then I do not know what it is. They’re helping themselves to your money, period while pretending to be patriotic. That is the American way after all, but it is hypocritical in the extreme.

      How utterly stupid. How is any of this going to help anybody in reality? Some of you are getting rich, while most of you are sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop so you can go out and “survive”. How utterly stupid. This is why you are still sheep.

      Americans do not need more information, or more advertising, we’ve got plenty of both now. We need real activism. If you want to prepare for the future, then you actually have to get off your ass and do something about it. Buying shit does not make you “prepared”, it makes you look like a gullible fool who would rather let it fall apart and try then to “survive”, then take the time now and the interest now to fix what is wrong.

      Absent is anybody telling Americans (“preppers” in this case) how to fix what is going wrong in their world. The reason it remains absent is the courage to do so is missing. The tools are there, and even the information is there, but the courage is absent. Therefore, there is no leadership here to be found, just scare tactics to get people to buy more shit.

      There are some good ideas out there, but they get scant attention because most people are very afraid to actually do anything. They’d rather “prep” then fix what is wrong. This is a recipe for failure and it is going to lead us all to ruin. It is your lack of attention to this, and by your readership, that is contributing to our decline and failure. The responsibility for success (and failure) falls upon all.

      Who do you think is best aware of what is going wrong in our world? The “informed”. Then who is best prepared to do something about it? The “informed”. But what are they being told to do? Nothing. Just go run and hide. Wait — buy stuff first, then go run and hide.

      Why don’t you post the names and addresses of the people who are leading this country into ruin? Because it doesn’t “sell”? Or even worse, because you don’t know? Then what are you doing here? Pretending? Of course you are. You’re a pretender just like everyone else is. Your pretending to “help” when what you are really doing is making money. But I am not fooled.

      The Internet offers the tools to do far, far more then inform (or sell). Those who are truly interested in actually using the information they’ve learned online need to know how to do so. They need orders in other words — things that need to be done. They’re free to follow or not. But nobody has been willing to pass out the orders because they lack what it takes.

      It’s much easier to just make a profit and call it “patriotic”. Not unlike how we have been taught to call “service to your country” patriotic. Even though you aren’t actually doing anything for your country at all.

      This should be familiar territory to you (this website), since you’re not really doing anything either. Just shoveling more infotainment as advertising. Some of us are not fooled.

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      • JustMe says:

        Perhaps you are unaware of the concept that it costs money to maintian a website, that is what advertising is for. It is unlikely that the owner of this site makes a lot of cash.

        Activsm? If you are capable of putting yourself forward as a viable leader who can survive, be taken seriously, and put forth ideas that will actually make a bit of difference, then by all means, lead on. Give us a viable plan. What can you come up with that cannot/will-not be countered?

        About prepping. Perhaps you are unaware of a few things.
        1) Most people in this country do not have more that 3 days food on hand at any one time. Most of those people will never be your friend, no matter what you do.
        2) We have long since past the time when average people are allowed to have a say-so in this country’s future. We are now at the point where preperation for hard times is past neccessary.

        I understand your frustration, and have been watching this develop for many years, now. I was told 20 yrs ago this time was coming. There are no better plans now, than there were then. The fix is in.

        My personal opinon is that sites like this are valuable. Show me an MSM show/site, etc., that will even touch half the topics.

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      • Experienced says: But where is the leadership? Where is the activism? Where is the direction? Absent. If it be absent, then what do we really have? Illusion and nothing more, passing itself off as “solutions”.

        I stopped reading at the above. Where have you been for the past months…didn’t we all agree months ago it was waaaay too late for ‘action’??
        The evil bastards, the elite, the PTB, whatever you call them have won…heck, I just like to know when it’s coming, how many, and how bad’s it’s gonna be.
        It is what it is.

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        • durango kidd says:

          No JJ WE didn’t agree months ago that it is “too late for action”. That is a loser mentality and the mentality that the PTB want US to have. they want US to believe it is hopeless.

          Thats PROPAGANDA!!!

          There is plenty of time to act and to engage. 80 million gun owners in America will change this country and restore the principles of American government to this nation.

          You can sit on your hands and catch farts if you want, but the rest of US are not going to cower before OUR government.

          Get some fricking spine!!!

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      • Gunsmith says:

        Hmmmmm….intriguing post there, Mr. Experienced! Your rant captivated my attention via its well written structure.
        I am assuming it is “YOU” who know, who is responsible for our condition & likely their home addresses. The fact of your alluding to “the informed”, subtly underscores your smug high-knowledge, so how about being a real trooper & POST THAT DATA/INFO so we, the merely “informed” may become “super-informed” like you.

        After all sir, as the saying goes…….Inquiring minds want to know!*

        * = with apologies to the National Enquirer (tabloid)

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        • Brad3000 says:

          Concur with Gunsmith.

          We are not selling anything to anyone.
          What is unsustainable usually stops.

          Its way passed the point of no return both globally and US financally. Many realize it but prefer denial, others will not have a clue when it hits them.

          We do the best we can for family and friends to mitigate the impacts by researching and analysing what we read using whats between the ears. The MSM is an advocacy with an agenda to keep the sheep being sheep – watch sitcoms and play computer games. God help us if we get VR5.

          Check Mid-Session Report Table S-14 on PDF page 55 for the Govt/OMB’s own 10yr debt extrapolations. $26.2 trillion by 2020 is conpletely non-viable and the system will implode long before then. This is only 9years away.

          http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/fy2011_msr/11msr.pdf

          Brad

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          • Gunsmith says:

            Excellent research there, Brad. Kudos to you & thanks for the link!

            Methinks the scoundrels in the govt/banking establishment hierarchy intend to trash the dollar(soon) & replace it w/ a new currency type…w/ a 100:1 or maybe 1000:1 exchange ratio for a limited period of time, then once the deadline is reached the old dollar is declared “NOT Legal Tender”. The time window is likely to be very narrow/short for average folks.

            This, in their opinion will allow them to clear/reset the table as regards to “foreign owned debt” while at the same time reaping mega-riches via the wealth transfer(i.e. theft) from the average citizen/worker by destroying their retirement IRAs-401ks-savings & most investment portfolios.

            —Like all schemes hatched by evil people/tribes, in the end, it will FAIL of course—

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      • ScoutMotto says:

        “This site is like many others, trying to engage their readers but offering them nothing real in return.”

        I disagree. Would you rather he say nothing, and people not be informed at all? Instead of playing the critic, please tell us what YOU are doing to make a difference. What have YOU learned, and what steps are YOU taking to inform others? Are you passing information to others, or are you waiting for someone to do everything for you?

        I feel your post is out of line.

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      • highspeedloafer says:

        @ Experienced.
        You said, “But nobody has been willing to pass out the orders because they lack what it takes.”

        Do you have what it takes?
        Are you a doer or just another talker?
        I hope you feel all better now, coming in and telling us how much more informed you are and how pathetic we are. I could be wrong, but I think you are all bluster and no backbone. Prove me wrong.

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      • A troll perhaps?

        A high and mighty one. Do you expect us now to beg you for information? Please, oh great one! Please impart to us your vast knowledge of the subject for which us peasants have only a whisp of understanding!

        Back to seriousness. There are so many incorrect points of information in your post that I do not know where I should start. Like so many intellectuals that I happen to converse with, you are woefully lacking in practical knowledge of the subject at hand.

        Your delivery is somewhat sloppy in that it is never validated with any real information. You say this or that but in reality it appears that you have written it just to hear your keys click.

        Please give us a clue as to all these sites that predated this one with such information? (…like this site hasn’t been around for very long, right?)

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      • ninaorket says:

        @experienced great post… very truthful… but not applicable… as we all live in a human controlled world manipulated and controlled by greed an lust… in utopia you would be king and considered a visionary @experienced… here on earth , you are only part of the 99% , the imf global banker owned – goyim debt slave mob. great post though!;0)

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      • Daisy says:

        Experienced:

        I don’t see YOU doing anything to help your fellow man. Mac provides a service and makes a living doing it. How many of us are that fortunate?

        Go away.

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      • watchermax says:

        oh experianced one, are you willing to lead us to a directed insurrection ? you are right. make one post about overthrowing the govt, see how long it takes before your superior life is torn asunder. there is little we can do, besides remaining watchful for the warnings that are coming faster by the day.

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      • Quietfox says:

        @Experienced

        I have been aware that things are not “right” for decades. Previously I have not been able to identify exactly what is wrong and why we are headed down the path, as yet not able to specifically identify, I have made efforts to educate others as my understanding and knowledge has grown.

        Your statements are, in my opinion, originating from one of two mindsets:

        1 – A troll/agent of/for TPTB, if such nothing more can be said. Your efforts are at best comic relief although potentially dangerous.

        2 – Fear, an unwillingness to accept the realities of what the future will bring. If so, please make an effort to educate yourself so that you may be a contributing member of whatever kind of future society may exist.

        This site, and others that are similar, are offering ideas and information. As stated by others a website costs money to maintain. Advertising helps to offset these costs. No one is forcing you to “buy” and the advertising is not an “in your face, impossible to ignore” such as pop-ups or other equally annoying techniques.

        I have learned that the vast majority of the public is not the least bit interested in facing reality of our perdicament. Continued efforts at education are met with derision, hostility and accusations of insanity. Their loss.

        Nobody is forced to visit these sites and read the content. To make statements such as yours are not helpful. If you have something to contribute do so. If there is nothing here of interest to you then go check out something else.

        There are a number of opinions expressed on this site which I do not wholly support or agree with. That does not change the fact that each and every individual posting here is entitled to express their opinions and ideas. Each of us has the right to respond with our individual thoughts, even if they are contrary to your own.

        Your comments, although well written, are, in my opinion not respectful of the stated aims and ideals of this site.

        If your comments are that of a troll, please explain to me the reasons why you engage in such actions, I do not understand.

        If your comments are that of an agent, I understand your motivation and wish you well. Especially after TSHTF.

        If your comments originate from fear, consider allowing yourself to put your ego aside, let the many truly caring individuals on this site offer assistance in helping to expand your knowledge and understanding. Through knowledge fear will be vanquished.

        If your comments are based from any other ideology, please do share. Perhaps we can learn from you.

        Quietfox

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    35. freeport56 says:

      Google ‘REX 84′ Signed into Law by Ronald Reagan. It was authored by Col. Oliver North.

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      • BEAR says:

        AUTHORED BY CRIMINAL OLIVER NORTH YOU MEAN

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

        • BEAR says:

          Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and the Federal Emergency Management Agency … had drafted a contingency plan providing for the suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, and the appointment of military commanders to head state and local governments and to detain dissidents and Central American refugees in the event of a national crisis.

          The basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency planning readiness exercises—and the potential threat they pose to civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation—are taken seriously by scholars and civil libertarians.

          Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen regularly. Plans for roundups of large numbers of persons in the United States in times of crisis are constructed during periods of increased political repression such as the Palmer Raids and the McCarthy Era.

          For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of over 100,000 persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the “ADEX” list. This list contained many labor leaders, scholars, and public figures of the time

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          • ninaorket says:

            they also had plans to imprison , innoculate and depopulate , the american blacks population under rex 84 plans as they were viewed as undesirables… look it up it’s the truth… blacks and mexicans.

            rex 84 was the “white – mans” solution to the american “color” problem perceived in the 80′s!

            and remember those folks in charge in the 80′s still are in charge now in 2011! aka newt gingrinch and banker company!

            same shit , different century…

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    36. I like what someone wrote on the other thread:
      Remember the 6 P’s:
      Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Planning

      oopS…Can I say Pi** ON HERE????

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • delr says:

        JJ-san the last p is for performance. and yes i didn’t forget the brooms [lol].peace an prep lady!

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      • OOps…sorry, delr–let’s get that right, cause I like that phrase..
        Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance..
        There–correction noted.

        Peace.

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        • Random Tangent 1957 says:

          This line came from Robert Redford’s movie 3 days of teh condor. The original was “Proper Planning Prevents Pissy Performance !” It is very true, especially today.
          Montgomery County Texas

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    37. JustMe says:

      Here it comes…

      http://news.yahoo.com/swat-teams-shooting-marine-causes-outrage-172246257.html

      A by-product of Prohibiton, and just another excuse to kill you.

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    38. I always knew I would see WW III in my lifetime…just not this early in it…

      TotalCollapse.com

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    39. delr says:

      in 1984 i switched from flightline to operations in the airforce. these plans were in place then and were updated annually. i never saw any higher than what applied to numbered air forces[9th or 12th].best advice: hide what you got. you can’t eat a voucher.

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    40. Everyone should go check out drudge. Appearantly we hammered some Pakistani outposts and killed about 24 of their men.

      This looks like the US Military being used to foment terrorism AGAIN. It just amazes me how the most honorable soldiers in the world can be used as lowly tools for such dasterdly deeds by crooked and evil leaders. Maybe it was an accident or bad intelligence, but, it seems pretty damned obvious to me that it was on purpose. Probably with our people questioning every order to fire but, finally, following that order. The Pakis are pissed. I mean, REALLY pissed. They closed down the supply route to our Afghan divisions. The trucks are backed up just waiting for the taliban sympathisers to blow them up.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

      • ninaorket says:

        your not telling the full story… amerika/ nato attacked the outpost to teach the pakistani’s a lesson… as pakistan is now talking to china of moving chinese troops and supplies into pakistan… once again amerikans are bullying terrorizing and killing to get their way!

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    41. nunya says:

      So what will be the final sign that it’s time to BO?
      Will we wake up one morning to the news of a run on banks by people trying to get their useless dollars out?
      ATM’s shutdown, people can’t buy gas with plastic anymore. Would be a good time to have a stash of cash, (paper money) and spend it all on goods and fuel….

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

      • ScoutMotto says:

        According to Fernando Aguirre, cash will be king when the credit cards don’t work. It would be a good idea to have a few G’s stuck away somewhere in the house in a location known only to yourself, and perhaps a loved one.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • Brad3000 says:

          ScoutMotto makes a good point.

          A Cash cache is a must have & in small bills.
          This will be useful for the middle period between collapse and full bartering for food & services. Then it may used for firestarting as the “Resconstruction” will have its own new currency. The old will be done and any exchange rate pretty bad.

          FerFAL makes for some very good reading.
          The bottom line is you have to have plans in place as their 2000/2001 crash moved faster than people guessed.

          Also the book “One Second After” which has been slammed by the DHS as likely to be owned by potential domestic terrorists, which tells me they are scared. Its a gutsy little book. If you think you are prepared & in pretty good shape – the read the book and have a stiff drink ready.

          Brad

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      • nunya, buy gas?? most everyone can afford a 5 gallon can at TSC for $8; heck buy two…
        Anyone with money in banks at this late date deserve to have it stolen..geeeze.

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      • JustMe says:

        There will not be a definative sign to “bug out”. Perhaps we will get a double-speak speech from the currently installed figurehead, informing us, that we are in a “state of emergency”.

        Perhaps, they will concoct another pandemic. Any crisis they can manufacture will do. Then, it’s “bend over and take your chip”. 99% of the cattle will comply.

        And then, where will you “bug out” to? There is no place they cannot reach, should they really desire.

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    42. Oldcrow says:

      Who cares rump ranger ? Get the facts first, and not from an entertainer.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    43. RogerT says:

      OK, guys, if you want answers as to what to do when TSHTF, get a history book and read about Francis Marion, the Revolutionary War fighter – who, incidentally, invented guerilla warfare in South Carolina 200 years before the Viet Cong. Just a suggestion.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    44. Semper Fi says:

      The meek shall inherit the earth.

      Lay low friends. Plan for peace. Plan to feed the hungry. Playing the same game as the current “players” who are orchestrating this demise is playing into their hands. Guns and ammo are fine and good but few really know how to use them. Everybody knows how to eat and drink. Spend your time figuring out how to have big barbecues and feasts with family, friends and neighbors. Let the trash eliminate the trash. You will accomplish nothing by being belligernt and bellicose. Good people will survive the day by being quiet and calm.

      Semper Fi

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    45. Sam not sam says:

      What is everyone’s best guess for a bottom on the price of silver ? I’d like to hear some opinions..

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • BEAR says:

        does not matter what the bottom will be, you wont be able to buy physical for that price, sellers will be holding, you will be able to get paper silver, but dont expect to ever receive it, like celente did, he did not get his delivery of gold

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    46. why it will go down says:

      The more folks think the SHTF will not go down….the more it will…as they did not prep. Means they will be unstable and act out in very lethal ways. We won’t go back to mad max days. But think….germany in hyper inflation times. Folks starved.

      The toughest is to explain this to kids.
      I “prepped” my kid with knowledge…so she know it might go down. If it does….we’ll just camp out in the house, shelter in place and we teamed up with the neighbors.
      Our “hood” in the burbs is well armed. Think armory, between us all. The cops are cool and residents. They will call upon us for backup if things get bad.
      Remember…we’re the folks who built all these companies…we’re used to working in teams.

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    47. JJ Jones says:

      Nutcases..guess what ..if the government goes bankrupt then they are out of business and that means no IRS and or anything…just bankrupt…. So they try to start a new deal government with new currency……. NO….. they will back the dollar with a tiny bit of gold…. Instantly the dollar is valuable…………..So why buy gold and silver…………..

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    48. durango kidd says:

      SNS: One guess is as good as another, I suppose. I think $20 an oz might be a floor at this point.

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    49. Anonymous says:

      A global collapse? Maybe. I think we are more on the edge of a global conflict. Russia, China and all their cling-ons against the US and the UK and NATO with all their cling-ons.
      The Marshal Law / Lock down of society in the West is to enforce the citizens to fight the evil terroristic criminals that oppose us! Because we are too stupid to resist. We are afraid …. Blah blah and blah ….
      Welcome to WWIII.
      Good night free and happy world …. Oh sorry, that was the 1950”s
      I meant, good night bankrupt, unhappy, poor and persecuted citizens of Orwells 2011/1984 nightmare!

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      • Anon, Isn’t that what always happens? When TPTB can’t hide their egregious behaviour and debts, its war always what happens? Conflict. …and they unite society around a common enemy so that we try and sacrifice ourselves for our posterity.

        Not gonna happen this time. They’ll have to round us up to get us to “serve”. the current conflicts are fiction and the people know it because of the fake wars we’ve fought previously. The people are very tired of being lied to.

        They were dropping the “draft” word a couple years ago, here and there, feeling us out. It was VERY unpopular and it was dropped. No, they will attempt to create a conflict, real or imagined, to get us to unite around them. The fake war on terror is old and worn. They need a new war.

        Unlike 1984, they need new wars to galvanize the people. But, like 1984, it may work. I watched 1984, the movie, last night. It seems we are moving in that direction as much as possible.

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    50. Tony says:

      Right now Congress want the US Military to have the power to be able to arrest and hold any American indefinitely, without charge, and without trial.

      Once that goes through and becomes law….

      What if the Joint Chiefs arrest every Congress person and JAIL THEM ALL indefinitely ? It would be completely legal.

      Hold new elections for Congress, with a full paper trail and full open scrutiny by the general public. No Diebold, no electronic vote rigging.
      Just honest fully scrutinized paper votes by the public, he who gets the most votes get’s his ass onto a seat in Congress.

      A new fresh Congress could then strike down many of the unreasonable harsh and immoral laws created during the last few Presidents, and bring back the Constitution how it was meant to be.

      A lot of work also needs to go into the justice system and law enforcement, and the security services at all levels, an open inquiry into 9/11 and Obama’s complete personal history revealed.

      Then the Wall street rats, and the bankers need to be tried for fraud and corruption.

      The stables need to be hosed out and sterilized, and the Joint Chiefs are about to be given the power to do it quite legally.
      If anyone can pull this off, it will be the true American patriots that put duty and honor before greed and meglomania.

      Fix the political system first, and everything follows on from that…..

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    51. Clean water from a scum filled pond…

      Antiseptic or fuel from fermented fruit, veggies and or sugar, maybe grain….

      A much needed relaxant for troubled times…

      http://www.lnlprotekt.com

      The ONLY tool you will need for multipurpose distillation. Life time garantee…100% copper contruction, food grade teflon gasketing, garanteed to produce antiseptic grade alcohol (62%-65%) and garanteed to produce fuel grade to 94%-95%…

      Coming soon, personal use MOLE SIEVE, used to further dehydrate ethanol to 99% after distillation.

      Prices subject to change depending on spot price of copper.

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    52. VRF says:

      Im for laying low and watching them fuck themselfs into oblivion.
      this is all their doing any how, so let it be them to pay for it.
      I will not stick my head out of my fox hole for them , they will not find me to use. And if they do come calling, I will answer with the only thing they understand.
      It is this government that is in a panic, because they have out lived their usefulness..and many are waking up to their abuses. It is they who live the lavish lifestyles, (I sure dont) so for me to survive in the chaos of their downfall will not be as much as a hardship as it will be on them.
      I think its time for those that know, to sit back, continue prepping, and try to remove yourself as much as possible from the corperation of this countries government. Feed not the municipalities, no on all millages. no on all raises for the government employees.
      spend only what you need , and I mean Need.. to spend on.
      help choke out the establishment in any means necessary, in any way possible.
      basically ..De fund the government.. and let it fall, and fail. The actions of this government has never been for its people, and their lawlessness is astounding, supporting it is only being a part of it and allowing it to continue to suppress you and use you for its purpose.

      someone said on here.. we should post names and address of the people who have had a part in destroying this nation..well they are all in government, and legal possitions.. and Im for the action of calling them all out. and letting them know…. we know who they are, and where they are.
      Leave no rock unturned, because thats where they are hiding.
      when T S Hits the fan.. none of these so called leaders should be able to hide from it, or survive it.
      besides the prisons are over crowded…right?

      At this point in the game, Im just going to TCB for my future and my family and close friends. And if the lid blows off this debacle of a fake government we have, I’ll just go about my life without it, I get nothing from my government, all they do is take.. so when its over for them..I’ll have one less blood sucker to worry about

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      • bear says:

        start the list, we will join in

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        • VRF says:

          ok ..here is one

          Lindsey Graham and Kelly Ayotte

          and here is why

          Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”

          Now Bear, I expect you to add two also..or were you just playing?

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          • VRF says:

            maybe its time to imprison Ayotte and Lindsey…

            for what you may ask..?
            oh we dont have to give a reason no charge or tial …right?

            I say we fuckin pick this asshole up right now and show him what he wishes for aint such a good idea…what do you think Bear?

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          • Gunsmith says:

            How about the complete current & former mgmt team @ Goldman-Sachs/BoA/Wells-Fargo/Citicorp & especially the Federal Reserve?

            …giggle-giggle…damn this is “FUN”! OK, here goes…

            1.) The entire membership of the CFR.

            2.) Ditto, the Trilateral Commission & Bildeburgers(sp?).

            3.) Same regarding the ADL, ALCU & the SPLC.

            4.) Every single illegal govt Czar…past & present.

            5.) Current & former DHS cabinet heads.

            6.) Every single MSM “owner”.

            7.) Numerous current/former Supreme Court judges.
            —(Tyrants in black robes)—

            8.) A bunch of those who’re just 3% of our population.

            …giggle-laugh-snort…I gotta stop this sh*t or the moderator will toss this post in the bit-bucket…tee-hee-hee.

            —”cough”—Ahem, sorry about that folks! I got a little carried away there for a minute!!!—chuckle—

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          • bear says:

            JOHN MCLOSER AND JOSEPH I TAKE IT UP THE ASS FOR ISRAEL LIEBERMAN

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          • VRF says:

            right on Gunsmith..

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    53. Silver Bean says:

      And thanks to the Freedom of Information Act we learned today just how much the big banks and Federal Reserve have been hiding from US citizens, and the US Congress:

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html

      Read through the article and you’ll learn it reached 7.7 TRILLION dollars, half of the GDP.

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    54. Anonymous says:

      Buy a bond in Italy today! One word, IMF.

      Say it aint so, Barney Frank is retiring! Somebody is going to be missing in the end.

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        One down. Hundreds to go.

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      • SmokinOkie says:

        Congress(man?) Bawny Fwank’s wetirement pawty will be held next Fwiday in the Banquet Hall of the Wavender Willy Hotel in Boston. Elton John will perform a very special members only concert and has promised to sing a reworked version of Candle In The Wind(End) in honor of the congress(man).
        The affair is formal and all guests are reminded to wear a charteuse carnation as that will be the color theme for the event. World famous chef Rene de’Limpwrist will serve as caterer. A cash bar will also be open. US Secret Service will provide security and any photographers from the National Inquirer will be shot on sight.
        Please RSVP by Tuesday 11/29

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    55. mushroom says:

      I stopped reading this blog months ago, one of the best decisions I’ve made. Unfortunately I made the mistake of dropping by today because I saw the bookmark (now deleted). But I must admit, it is just the same shit…and another day. It’s over. Go do something instead that will help your family and yourself.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

    56. BOHICA1 says:

      according businessinsider.com, BHO may be building a bunker at the white house. what does everyone think?
      link
      http://www.businessinsider.com/obamas-new-bunker-2011-11

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    57. anonymous says:

      warm up the helo and get AF1 ready with some fresh blue juice.

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    58. bear says:

      Actually this has been happening since Reagan, W bush was the most damaging factor in this, Bankrupting us with two unwinnable wars, Military Ind COmplex, led by CHertoff, Cheney and his Murderers at Blackwater, Haliburton, KBR and the like

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

      • Kevin2 says:

        bear

        Actually the current administration far out spent GW Bush and that was no small accomplishment. Cash for clunkers was a terrific idea. Destroy useable cars at a time when people cannot afford new cars. Now many affordable autos we’re taken off the market in the name of job protection? If they wanted job protection don’t set forth trade policies that ensure industry will flee the US for labor at a sub fraction cost. Thank Bill Clinton for China Free Trade and NAFTA and keep in mind that 83% of US Senate Republicans voted for China Free Trade while only 80% of US Senate Democrats did the same. Get the idea….the working person has no friends and the results over several decades show it.

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    59. Patton was right says:

      They aren’t gearing up for a global financial collapse! Thats just a ruse to keep us in panic mode. Governments are moving towards something worse.
      1. All out war in the Middle East, for ALL the oil.
      2. A European wide conflict to stop the Germans taking power …. Again!
      3. South East Asia conflict to destroy trade.
      4. War throughout Africa to regain resourses from Chinese control
      5. A Pacific wide war to destroy China
      6. War in the Balkans and Eastern European countries to destroy Russia

      That old saying from WWI that said “the boys will be home by Christmas” has now changed to,
      “Looks like 2011 was the last Christmas”

      Can you say ….. Total Global Conquest. Call it what you will, I’ll call it the Third World War, fast and furious, the final solution.

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    60. Kevin2 says:

      Patton

      They are certainly securing resources and putting up a US blocking force between China and the oil fields. Our recent interest in Africa does not have humanitarian roots regardless how it is presented.

      So many on this BB are fearful of domestic up evil, political, civil and economic. The world right now is extremely dangerous and it’s only getting more so by the day.

      I’d rather be fishing. I actually envy the “worshippers of the sphere”. They don’t know, don’t care and don’t care to know. We know, we care and we care to know. In the end you really think it matters?

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    61. Patton was right says:

      No Kevin , your right. It doesn’t really matter. At the end of the day it’s going to happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it. The “financial farce” is just that. A worn out joke that I can’t be bothered with anymore. As for a very near future war, if you know anything from history, don’t run to sign up to save your country. Take your time, go fishing. Let the gung ho morons go first. I have no problems with re-enlisting again. My Military career has been a revolving door of service both full time, part time and on operations. I really couldn’t care less if the world erupted into an inferno in the morning … If it does of course, you can safely say that I’ll be on my couch with me feet up, a beer and/or coffee flicking thru the news channels watching re – run bullshit.
      Then seeing as how most everyone else will be to busy freaking out, I’ll probably go fishing

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    62. Kevin2 says:

      I guess the difference is at some point the “Worshippers of the sphere” will be shocked while we will not be. That initial shock for the masses is a critical time. We’re home watching it on TV and they are risking themselves in every respect being out in the madness. That is time to screen your calls with a recorded message, “Sorry, I’m watching a movie and too busy to get to the phone, have a nice day”, when people call that weeks before never gave you the time of day and now want advice or supplies.

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    63. Patton was right says:

      Yes good call on the recorded message. I think mine should say “too late suckers, I’ve gone fishing at my secret cabin in the woods, watching the world fall off the cliff on my flat screen, generator powered TV and enjoying my prior prepped beers that I’ve cashed away with my two years worth of cereal, milk powder and yogurt bars. Leave a message”

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